Toy4x4 Digest          Wed, 21 Jan 98 00:30:01 (HST)  Volume 1 : Issue 668
 Today's Topics:
 4runner automatic
 4Runner automatics
 4WPW
 Back from Death Valley
 Backspacing
 CB web site
 Engine enhancements for 94 4x4
 feul cut RPM
 front spring question
 Good price
 HG & Free Rental Car (4 msgs)
 is this a sign of timing belt demise???
 Japan
 Leo's tranny problem
 Moscow mt.
 Rear axle oil seal replacement.
 rental cars
 Rubicon page
 soft brakes
 Speedo adjustment - rebuttle - rebuttle
 Speedometer adjustment - Here is what I Did....
 SPRING ME
 t0y4x4: new test
 tach adj
 Tire Deflators - fixed
 Truck Pricing (2 msgs)
 Turn Signals
 vented disk swap: better stops?
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:23:08 -0800 (PST)
 From: rick99@jps.net (Rick Murray)
 Subject: 4runner automatic
 To: TOY4X4@TLCA.ORG> What's the general consenus regarding automatics in the older 4Runners? Are> they as bulletproof as the 5-speeds? I'm looking for a solid-axle SR5 that> my wife can use. The main use would be daily driver/family car with some> "family" 4-wheeling (no radical hard-core stuff).
 If you aren't going to lift it and go hard-core, then why go with a solid axle ?
 She would be much happier with an IFS model that would handle much better on the
 highway.  86-89 models are also more plentiful, therefore easier to find with the
 options and color she wants.
 - -
 ##################################################################
 Rick Murray                                22R motor ; 3-inch lift
 84 Toyota 4Runner SR5                    33" BFG M/Ts ; 4.88 gears
 Rancho Cordova, Ca.                   Rancho 9000's ; on-board air
 http://www.jps.net/rick99/             Marlin TCase #67 ; TRD LSD
 ##################################################################
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:56:01 -0600
 From: pmadden@sous.com (Paul Madden)
 Subject: 4Runner automatics
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, marc sahr wrote:> What's the general consenus regarding automatics in the older 4Runners? Are> they as bulletproof as the 5-speeds? I'm looking for a solid-axle SR5 that> my wife can use. The main use would be daily driver/family car with some> "family" 4-wheeling (no radical hard-core stuff).>> Any opinions or experience with this setup?
 Eric Johnson wrote:
 We've hashed the pros and cons out in this forum a few times - check the
 archives. In short, the auto is great, though it does eat a few horses
 from an already under-powered rig. Its the same tranny they use in Jeep
 Cherokees I believe. I'm pleased with mine - 155K so far, no problems at
 all.
 Marc:
 I agree with Eric on his statement. My '85 4Runner (automatic)
 had 185K before I had tranny rebuilt. The only thing I would caution
 you on is the cost of repair when the time comes for a rebuild.
 MUCHO DINERO $$$$$$$$. Much more $ than a manual.
 Paul Madden
 '85 4Runner (automatic) 194,000 Mi
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:53:50 -0600
 From: breeze@cysource.com (Jeffrey Delzer)
 Subject: 4WPW
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Don M. West wrote:>> As for guys who've ordered stuff and been charged while it's backorded, I> think they should change that policy. I've dealt with companies> (non-wheelin' stuff) that don't charge till they ship!!
 I believe federal law says they CAN'T charge till they ship. Of course,
 that doesn't mean anything unless someone complains...
 Jeff Delzer
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:43:59 -0800
 From: "Tim"  Subject: Back from Death Valley
 To:  - -----Original Message-----
 From: Sandy and Terry  To: Toy4x4@tlca.org  Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 10:45 PM
 Subject: Back from Death Valley>Got back from Death Valley tonight.  I added 1,400 miles to my odometer>since Friday.  (Equivalent to approx. 1,260 miles with corrections to my>gears.)
 Yes, quite a long trip.  I added about 850 miles to mine and got back at
 1:15 monday morning :)>  We had a total of 5 vehicles. The weekend was a blast.  I'll be>putting together a trip report soon.>Good people + good trails + good weather = Good times
 Yes, great weekend and well worth the miles!  There was something for
 everything on this run so I'd totally recommend it for anyone who'd like a
 good trip for next year.  Anyway it was a great trip and I'm getting my 2
 roles of film developed so they should be up on my web page along with a
 trip report soon!
 Tim Stucky
 '84 Toyota 4x4 Short Bed
 4.5" Superlift
 33x12.5 BFG Muds
 4.88's
 Rear Detroit Locker
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:33:47 -0600 (CST)
 From: gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg S. Francis)
 Subject: Backspacing
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 I know we've covered this before, but what is the correct backspacing for a
 15x8 wheel on an IFS Toy?  Suppose this wheel was sporting 32x11.5s, and
 those meats wanted to remain inside the fenders.  Do I recall correctly
 that American Racing makes a type 62 wheel with the correct backspacing?
 Thanks.
 Greg
 Greg S. Francis
 University of Texas @ Austin
 School of Architecture
 gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
 TLCA Member #5558
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:01:20 EST
 From: DRM033  Subject: CB web site
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 In a message dated 98-01-20 12:19:17 EST, you write:>>  Or if you prefer a business that will deal with you fairly, check out:> hey, I said look at - I did not say buy from them.  I like to "look at" the
 NWOR catalog, but I try to avoid buying from them.
 By the way, I have not purchased anything from Copper.
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 David Moore                       DRM033@aol.com
 90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
 4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
 TLCA #5662
 Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:20:35 -0500
 From: "C. Michael Williams"  Subject: Engine enhancements for 94 4x4
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Hey!
 I'm new to the list and am really enjoying the loads of info that all
 of you have to offer.  I'm driving a 94 4 cyl. and really like the
 truck.  However, that engine really could use some more...guts?
 I'm not looking to do something major like throw in a six cylinder, but
 I would be interested in what some of you have to say about gaining a
 little performance.  I'm handy with a wrench and will be doing any work
 myself.  I hear you guys talking intake mods, ignition upgrades, and so
 forth.  These are reachable goals for me.  So tell me.  Where do I
 start.  What is a good source for parts?
 One last thing I'll ask you.  I drive lots of miles and am trying to
 overcome a back injury.  I'd really like to exchange my bench seat for
 more supportive buckets.  Anybody know of a good aftermarket seat at a
 fair price?  Are factory buckets available?
 Thanks!
 Michael Williams
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:02:25 EST
 From: ishi-tib@juno.com (J Doherty)
 Subject: feul cut RPM
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Here's the problem my 88 p/u dies when i hit the brakes. it runs
 fine and has plenty of power till i have to slow down then it stalls.  I
 know there is a fuel cut RPM switch atached to the brakes but I have no
 idea how to check the system and adjust . also the mas airflow sensor is
 making noises. I know  this is normaly a sign of timing problems but it's
 at 5deg with the check conector shorted. Could they be related?
 - --Jack--
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:01:34 EST
 From: DRM033  Subject: front spring question
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I saw somewhere that someone had used Jeep wrangler rear springs in the front
 of their Toy truck.  Does anyone have any more info on this, or know what is
 involved?
 thanks!
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 David Moore                       DRM033@aol.com
 90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
 4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
 TLCA #5662
 Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:10:14 -0500
 From: jrwood@recorder.ca
 Subject: Good price
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> Matt wrote:>> I found an 85 4 runner w/ 170k for $3300, is it worth it? All I know is> it has A/C and 1 yr. old paint.  This truck would be my daily driver...>>Richard wrote:>>> i looked for MONTHS to get an early 4runner for that price! it's>> an EXCELLENT deal.>>>> jump on it right away or give me the address and i'll buy it!!!>> Wow. I'm beginning to think I got a deal and a half! Six weeks ago, I
 bought a '87 4Runner SR5 22RE with 202,000 km (121,000 mi.), factory
 sunroof (no A/C), nerfbars, but no power options (windows, mirrors,
 cruise :-( ). A little surface rust (no holes); needed two front tires
 (rears were brand new, so I bought two more for a matched set), rad. The
 timing was not advancing because someone was frigging with the TPS
 (thank you Jim Brink for confirming this); I reset the TPS and the
 timing works as good as new; one rear axle seal was leaking, now fixed.
 The rear heater lines were weeping, so I replaced them with 5/8" heater
 hose and tiewraps (anyone else try this??). My wife LOVES it. We live in
 eastern Ontario, Canada, so we have lots of snow. Anyway, I paid, are
 you ready, $2700 CDN (remember, our dollar is only worth 65 cents to
 your dollar)!!! Mind you, I bought it from a friend who has a carlot, so
 I paid wholesale (or less) for it. The other day, my wife clipped an ad
 for a '87 4Runner, 200k km, fair condition, he was asking $5800. This
 was truely a gift. I have about $3100 CDN invested. Now I have to find
 one for myself, as my wife considers it hers, seeing as how we sold her
 '83 Cressida. I'm 'stuck' with my '84 Cressida ;-)
 My friend called me the other day because he had a chance to buy a '90
 4Runner at the auction. The 22RE had 325,000 km (205,000 mi) on it, but
 it was going for $5000!!! A '90 4Runner still fetches $13-14K up here. I
 didn't have the money to buy it because my oldest daughter (13) needs
 braces costing, you guessed it, $5000. :-(  I feel like crying.
 Hopefully, another great deal like this will come along soon!
 Great site. Been following along, sitting in the bush for weeks. Will
 start to participate in the discussions. I feel I know some of you
 already. Take care all.
 John 'Woodsy' Wood
 Brockville, Ontario, Canada
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:27:12 -0500
 From: Charles Brooks  Subject: HG & Free Rental Car
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Cartman wrote:> Any suggestions?  How did you talk Customer Service into paying for your> rental car?  They keep saying that they don't pay for 'em... or that> they'll pay like $25 a day... which is a contradiction anyway.> I think that's B.S. if one person can just send in receipts and get> reimbursed... when I have to go through all this crap.  No offense> to you ... just to Toyota.
 This one has worked for me on two seperate occasions. Have a lawyer
 send a letter to them stating exactly what you expect and that you
 would be more than happy to discuss the matter in court if they wish.
 (Have him word it all nice and purdy like!) have it sent to the
 Dealer and Toyota USA certified mail return receipt requested. My
 lawyer charged me 80 bucks for the lousy letter but it saved me $5100.
 Good Luck
 Charles Brooks
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:27:35 -0500 (EST)
 From: Cartman  Subject: HG & Free Rental Car
 To: Toyota4x4Digest > If they never said you'd have to pay any of the rental car UP> FRONT...you are not responsible for it.  Stick it to them.   They can't> pull this 'after the fact' stuff.   Did you sign anything that> specifically said you'd pay $XX per day for the rental car or did they> just give it to you saying that they'd be taking care of it?
 Here's the deal... the dealership that I got it done at is about 45
 minutes from me and I heard from a friend that they do good work, so I had
 it towed there.  The service manager said that they'd pay for a rental
 car, but I told him that I didn't want to drive 45 minutes JUST to get a
 rental car at the Enterprise near them.  He told me that I could get one
 near me but I'd have to pay for the car and then they'd reimburse me....
 cuz for some reason this Enterprise couldn't do a direct-billing to the
 dealership.  That sounded fine with me.
 After the block was re-bored, HG replaced, etc... (which took 10 days) I
 was able to pick up my truck and I submitted a copy of the rental car
 receipt which was sent with my claim to Toyota.  I was supposed to get the
 reimbursement within 2 days..... then 2 weeks... then 2 months - He said
 that my claim took longer because it had a sublet for the machine shop.
 Finally, I get the check and it's like $45 less than what I spent on the
 rental car.  This brings us to the current discrepency with the dealership
 telling me that Toyota (US) won't pay for the whole rental car fee.
 Get this - the service manager "forgot" that it would cost more from a
 different Enterprise because the one they deal with frequently KNOWS they
 have a cap on a rental car.  He told me AFTER the fact and insists that
 it's Toyota (USA) who's responsible.
 One fact which he doesn't like to mention to the rep. he talks to when
 disputing the payment, is that I had other stuff done to the truck while
 it was in.  He said that a rental for 10 days would be questionable if the
 rep. knew that I had "other" work done.  The stuff I had done was
 typical... timing belt, tensioners, water pump, belts....nothing unrelated
 or nothing that didn't have to be taken off anyway. Should this even be a
 factor in my claim?  So what if I had this stuff done... most people have
 it done at the time anyway...
 Confused...
 - --
 Doug Berger
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:36:28 -0800
 From: Scott Wilson  Subject: HG & Free Rental Car
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Cartman wrote:> Here's the deal... He told me that I could get one> near me but I'd have to pay for the car and then they'd reimburse me....> cuz for some reason this Enterprise couldn't do a direct-billing to the> dealership.
 There you go.  There was NO discussion of only being reimburssed up to a
 certain amount.  The service manager needs to pick up the $45 slack.> Get this - the service manager "forgot" that it would cost more from a> different Enterprise because the one they deal with frequently KNOWS they> have a cap on a rental car.  He told me AFTER the fact and insists that> it's Toyota (USA) who's responsible.
 One again...definately HIS fault.> One fact which he doesn't like to mention to the rep. he talks to when> disputing the payment, is that I had other stuff done to the truck while> it was in.  He said that a rental for 10 days would be questionable if the> rep. knew that I had "other" work done.  The stuff I had done was> typical... timing belt, tensioners, water pump, belts....nothing unrelated> or nothing that didn't have to be taken off anyway. Should this even be a> factor in my claim?  So what if I had this stuff done... most people have> it done at the time anyway...
 I wouldn't worry about covering his *ss.  :-)   They made the OFFER to
 YOU to get the work done.  If anything is fishy about the deal (as far
 as Toyota is concerned about the dealerships actions) it was the dealer
 who made the error.  I'm having my head gasket done now (hope to get it
 back tomorrow) and they made me the same offer to get work done.  Just
 like you I took them up on the the offer and had the cyls. honed, new
 rings, bearings, valve job, etc.
 Good luck...I hope they don't get away with this.
 Scott
 - --
 _____
 /_/_|_\__       Scott Wilson TLCA #5261  CA4WDC #13393
 | _     _ :     88 4Runner SR5 V6
 */_\---/_\'     Santa Clara, CA
 (_)   (_)      http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:44:44 -0500 (EST)
 From: Cartman  Subject: HG & Free Rental Car
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> This one has worked for me on two seperate occasions. Have a lawyer> send a letter to them stating exactly what you expect and that you> would be more than happy to discuss the matter in court if they wish.> (Have him word it all nice and purdy like!) have it sent to the> Dealer and Toyota USA certified mail return receipt requested. My> lawyer charged me 80 bucks for the lousy letter but it saved me $5100.
 It's only $45, but it just gets on my nerves so much that they promise me
 one thing, and then blame it on others or claim they don't do it.  Ugh!
 - --
 Doug Berger
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:44:45 -0700
 From: Tony Bartlett  Subject: is this a sign of timing belt demise???
 To: Toy4x4  No its not.  Some people have mentioned torque converter lockup
 problems.
 What the lockup converter does is once in overdrive or some vehicles
 will use lockup in 3rd it locks components of the converter so it is in
 a 1:1 ratio.  This will drop your rpm's about 200-300.  You have this
 problem a little but your bigger jumps are something else.
 You might check what your rpm's do when cruising down the highway and
 turn overdrive off.  Does it increase around 1000RPM's?
 I am not sure about Toyota's but most auto tranny's will not go into
 overdrive when they are still cold.  You might have a bad trans temp
 sensor telling the computer it is cold while driving down the road.
 This would put you back in 3rd gear.  I am not sure if a cold trans also
 cuts out the torque converter clutch (I would guess it would).
 When the problem happens does it feel like it is downshifting or does it
 feel like a slipping clutch?
 Tony
 http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:02:49 -0600
 From: "Larry D Walls"  Subject: Japan
 To: "Toy4x4"  John,
 Contact me off the list, so I can get you some info on what I need.
 Thanks,
 Larry D Walls      Austin TX,
 ldwalls@freewwweb.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:21:28 -0800
 From: Kenneth Fong  Subject: Leo's tranny problem
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
 - --------------F7D096C7AC0088DEEA0BFAED
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 Sure the tranny can do that.If the torque converter unlocks and locks, then it can fluctuate like that.
 Its only 200-300 rpm.> Leo,this sounds more like a tacometer problem to me.You say this happens> driving down the road?The rpm's cannot rise that much,even with an auto> tranny,without spinning the tires.Is your tranny slipping?I would look> into a loose ground,or maybe a loose wire somewhere.Maybe i'm> overlooking something?
 Overdrive is the additional gear.When cruising on the freeway in OD, the torque converter is locked.  The torque converter unlocks
 when more power is needed then the tranny will kick-down.> My guess is that your auto tranny is going in and out of torque> converter lock-up; another term for it is overdrive. I'm not sure> what exactly would cause that, possibly a tranny kick-down cable> out of adjustment, a throttle position sensor going wacko and> fooling the transmission?  It sounds like a question for our> Toyota tech guru, Jim Brink.... Jim?> ot of snippage...]
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 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:20:07 -0800 (PST)
 From: Jonathan Albrecht  Subject: Moscow mt.
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Friday night I got a call at about 5:30 from this guy I met about a
 month ago right before I went home for winter break, and he wants to
 know if I'm up for 4xing at 7:00.  Am I!  Hell yeah.
 At 7:00 I met up with him and a few other guys at the Conoco station.
 There were four of us:
 Me--'87 4runner.  New 35" bfg muds on 15x10's, 6" of lift and not a darn
 thing else.
 Mark--'85 toyota p/u, lockers f/r, stock gears, 33x12.50 wildcat muds on
 15x8's, on-board air and lotsa other nifty stuff.  NWOR 3.5" springs,
 long shackles, monster bilsteins.
 AJ--'67(?) Bronco, 3" Duff lift, new 33x9.50 buckshot mudders, 302v8,
 and a 4spd granny (np435)
 Don--'70's(?) Jeepster.  Stock, stock, stock!  Auto tranny and 30x9.50
 wildcats.
 After showing each other our trucks, we headed off for our local 4xing
 spot, Moscow mt.  Ten minutes later we make the transition from dirt
 (snow covered) roads to the actual mt. roads.  It's pretty easy going,
 but I stopped and dropped into 4low.  Might as well, it's good for about
 65mph!  Anyway, we go on and on.  It gets steeper in a few places, but
 for the most part it's easy going.  Maybe 6" of semi packed snow.  Oh
 yeah, the order was:  Jeepster, bronco, '85 p/u, 4runner.  Anyway they
 come to a stop, I get out.  We BS a bit, they lock in their hubs.  Mark
 tells me that it's us 'wide tire' guys versus the domestic skinny tires.
 I guess Don and AJ seem to think the narrow tires are the way to go. Me?
 I dunno, I never really considered my tires wide in the first place!
 But I can't help but like wide tires better.  With all the hubs locked
 (we're still on really easy stuff) the two guys in front tell us that
 they're only using 2wd.  Fair enough, I still decided to use 4low
 though.  We take off again, and I notice that mark (in the toyota p/u)
 only has his in 2wd, so I slow down and drop into 2wd (more challenge I
 guess).  We go on and on.  Eventually we come to this steeper hill.  But
 not that steep.  The two guys in front drive up it VERY easily.  Looked
 just like they were driving up a paved road.  So I leave mine in 2wd.
 Mark goes ahead of me, and I give him some space, eventually pulling up
 about 30' behind him (in 2wd).  It starts to get REAL steep though, so I
 dropped into 4wd.  Apparently mark had his in 4low, cause I was just
 about to run over him going up the trail.  Eventually I had to slow
 down, and lost momentum, and started spinning.  So I stopped, and waited
 for him to continue up the trail.  Once he got up around the next bend,
 I dropped mine in 4low, and tried to get going again.  I wish!  All it
 did was spin.. and start to slide backwards.  I backed up a good 30'
 (those power rear windows are so nice on 4runners!) to a flatter section
 and gave it another go.  I could only get about 10' before I just can't
 go any farther.  Great.  After a few more tries I backed up into a snow
 bank, shut off the motor, and start letting some air out of the tires.
 I got one down to about 15psi or so when Mark walked down to where I was
 stuck.  He seemed to think I needed to go way lower (at 15psi, my bfg's
 looked almost the same as 30psi--no bulge hardly).  We pulled the valve
 cores, and let them all down to about 8psi.  (here's a good tip I found
 out, with the valve core out, the tire will start whistling around 15 or
 so psi.. once it stops, in my case, I'm at about 10psi).  I tried the
 hill again.  And again.  And again.  AUGG!!  I just couldn't get up the
 darn thing!!  So we let out more air.  With all tires at or below 5psi
 (my 5psi guage didn't move anyway), I tried it again.  Boy, I've got to
 say that driving uphill in icy conditions is a real art.  What I finally
 figured out, is that you need momentum, BUT, as soon as the tires start
 to loose traction, you've got to let up on the gas, to keep that
 traction.  I was literally amazed at how well my stock EFI motor was
 able to idle me up at or below 1000rpm.  Eventually I cleared this first
 hill.  Man did those domestic guys give us some crap!  The guy in the
 jeepster with the bad front axle was like 'shoot, I thought this hill
 was sorta hard, but then again, I was in 2wd!' He was kidding.  I hope.
 It flattened out a good bit, and we continued on.  And yeah, I
 kept my truck at 5psi the whole night.  Mark Also aired down his toyota,
 to about 8psi or so.  The other two (adament that weight and skinny
 tires are the solution left their tires alone).
 We continued up the mountain, and it started to get real darn steep.  I
 couldn't believe how well I was keeping up with mark in his fully locked
 toyota.  After 10 minutes or so of really steep stuff, mark stopped in
 his tracks with all four tires spinning.  Uh oh.  I'm screwed.  So I
 stopped, and backed up into a snow bank about 40' behind him.  Mark is
 definitley the crawler of the group.  He was adament against speed: by
 his reasoning, you can crawl anything!  So I sat and waited for him to
 try and crawl this hill.  He'd get most of the way up, but every time
 he'd loose momentum.  Every time!  So finally he decided he needed less
 air, and dropped them down to about 3psi. or so.(rims about 1.5" off the
 ground).  He tries it again and again.  A few hours later he FINALLY
 makes it up the hill, by trying it in 2nd-low and just gassing the heck
 out of it.
 By the time he got to the top, the hill was all slicked off.  The
 jeepster had it easy, there was just one track on the road when he tried
 it.  I almost didn't even try it.  I mean Mark is a pretty good driver,
 and his truck is fully locked.  And it took him a few hours to do the
 hill.  But I still tried.  The first time I did it in 2nd-low, (holding
 it at 4000rpm) and almost made it.  After that, things started to go
 downhill. I tried another 15 times, each time seemingly not getting as
 far as before.  But finally, I tried it again, 2nd-low, floored,
 4000rpm, all tires spinning and howling away.. And I made it!!  It was
 awesome!  Course the first two in the skinny tired trucks did it first
 time no problem.. oh well.
 We continued on up, and got to this side trail, with a big bump (they
 call it a kelley hump down here), and after this bump, about 10' of semi
 packed powder.  After that.. it's crotch deep.  AJ in the Bronco tried
 it first.  He got over the kelley hump with a bunch of spinning, then
 got into the thicker stuff and promptly sank.  He got out, and we aired
 him down to about 15psi.  Between those buckshots and his heavy bronco
 (this is a bobtail btw) they squated down pretty nice.  We did some
 digging, and after about 20 minutes we had his heavy tall tired beast
 unstuck, and parked.  He didn't like the deep stuff much..  Time for the
 toyota's to show 'em what it's all about!
 Mark in the p/u tried it first.  The kelley hump was zero problem, and
 same with the packed powder.  The deeper stuff though, was.  He'd get
 about 2' into it, and then he'd just stop.  The powder was pretty thick.
 So he'd back up, run at it, get maybe another 1' forward, and continue
 on.  Eventually he got about 8' or so into the stuff (not 8' deep, but
 managed to drive about 8' forward), and then he got stuck.  All four
 tires spinning, the entire undercarage packed with snow.  Just stuck.
 Since the Bronco was parked about 10' to the side of Mark's p/u, AJ
 decided to try and pull him out.  He drove around, and then below Mark,
 and they hooked up the strap.  AJ gave a good run at it, but all he did
 was get stuck at the end of the rope!  And the toyota didn't move an
 inch.  Next, we got out the shovels, and started digging.
 About ten minutes later we had both vehicles undug and unstuck.  This
 time AJ was truly done with this section of the trail, and he decided to
 park his beast for a bit.  I was anxious to try my truck out, so Mark
 also parked his.  To my surprise, my truck did really well.  Those new
 BFG's dug great, and with so little air in them, they did an excellent
 job of floating above the bottom 10" of snow (of course I was still
 pushing through a good 18" above that).  I drove through the spot where
 Mark had gotten stuck, and continued on into the deep stuff.  The first
 thing I found out here, was that this deep stuff was tough going.  After
 driving about 2' into it, my truck stopped.  I popped it into reverse,
 gunned it back about 4', then into first, and ran at the deep stuff
 again.  Each time I made another 2 to 4' of progress.  Talk about slow
 going!  after making a good 20-25' of headway I decided that this was
 just a good way to wear out my clutch and gave up before I really got
 stuck.  I backed out, but at the last 3' or so my truck slid off the
 main path, and into the 3' deep stuff along the side, and there I
 was.. stuck.  Mark in the Toyota drove around me, so he could pull me
 out from the front.  We hooked his up, and with him driving in my
 tracks he had me free in no time.  This time backing out I did it a bit
 more carefully and didn't get stuck.
 Well, I was done with this deep/wet snow, but Mark wasn't. He spent the
 next hour going 5' at a time through the deep stuff.  Eventually he gave
 up too and we decided to head on down the main trail.  I hopped in my
 truck, and attempted to back out, over the kelley hump at the entrance.
 I thought I was lined up right, but apparently not--I got nice and stuck
 on top of the thing!  Mark hooked up to the front of my truck to pull me
 out, but it was a lot harder than I expected.. probably took him 5 or 6
 tries to free me off the top.  After that, we continued on.
 Half an hour later we come to yet another side trail.  The bronco and
 Jeepster had already made lots of attempts, but couldn't get up the
 first 20' of it (after that it flattens out).  Mark (in the toyota)
 tried it and before I knew it, he was on top, ready to try what was
 above it.  Once again it was slow going.  The snow was a little
 shallower here though, and he made it along about 10' at a time.  While
 Don rode with him, AJ and I talked and watched.
 Close to an hour later he's made it a good 100' down the trail, and
 most of the way up a steep hill in the distance.  He can't seem to get
 any further, so once again he let out some more air.  I'm not sure what
 pressure he had it at (it was below my 5psi gauge) but the rim was
 solidly on the ground on at least one of the tires--the other's had a
 bit more air in them.  He tried again, and again, but could only get so
 far.  Since it was already 2:00am, we decided to give up and head back.
 Once back on the main trail, Mark decided to hook up the 'ol air
 compressor.  Now I've never seen his air comp. before, so I didn't
 exactly know what to expect.  He popped the hood and I saw it.  What a
 beast!  He'd moved the battery to the drivers side, and in it's place he
 had a compressor about the size of a small motorcycle engine!  Honestly,
 it was bigger than an 8hp Briggs and Straton.  Setup was kinda weird.
 He had a fan belt that he ran from the compressor to the crank pulley.
 Then he had what looked like a pulley on a kick-stand that he popped
 into place to tension it.  Then he told me to fire it up while he aired
 up the tires.  I started the motor and.. wow, I'd never heard such a
 loud compressor!  Sounded like a cummins diesel instead of a toy 4cyl.
 The other two guys were still playing on the hill when I started up
 Mark's truck, and they came running--they thought we'd blown his engine!
 As noisy as it was, it did work great, and inflated the tires from about
 2# to about 15 in about 30 seconds each.  After that we headed back to
 the gas station for the final airing up.
 Over all a great night!  I got home at 3:00 am on the dot.
 _______
 Jonathan Albrecht                      __.           /_/__|__\__
 albr9619@uidaho.edu                 __/__|\___       |_.--.__,--;
 http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619    :--.__|.--.|,---- ~'(__)'`(__)
 `'`'`''`'`'`''``'`'`'`'`''`'`'``'`
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:52:40 -0800
 From: "Roger Brown P.E."  Subject: Rear axle oil seal replacement.
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I've recently noticed a gear oil leaking onto one of my rear wheels.  Its an
 '85 4Runner and its definitely gear oil, not brake fluid.  About 6 months ago I
 had the rear bearings and oil seals replaced (at a shop).  I assume the oil
 seal is the source of the leak (any other things to look at?).
 How much work is involved in replacing a rear seal and are any special tools
 required?
 Is it a sure thing that the brake shoes are soaked with oil and will need
 replacing?
 I checked the archives and could only find some info on removing the brake
 drums, which sounded quite interesting in itself.  If its a straight forward
 repair, I'll probably do it myself for the experience, otherwise I'll try
 taking it back to the shop that did the repair last summer and see if I can get
 them to replace it (its been driven less than 3000 miles since the repair).
 - --
 Roger Brown, P.E.        mailto:rogerb@sgi.com
 +1.650.933.1898 (vmail)  +1.650.932.1898 (fax)
 http://reality.sgi.com/rogerb/
 Check out the SGI EuroDev Forum: http://www-devprg.sgi.de/Forum98/
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:44:38 -0800
 From: jen and chris keeling  Subject: rental cars
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 This posting concerns the guy who was stuck for part of the rental car
 bill while his truck was being repaired.
 First off, no manufacturer is willing to pay for a rental car unless in
 extreme circumstances.  These extreme circumstances normally have to be
 ok'd by a district/area rep.  If it isn't ok'd, then you hope your
 friendly dealer likes you enough to fully cover the charges.  Normally
 they will like you if your a regular customer (even semi-regular &
 aren't
 a p.i.t.a).  Even if the dealer agrees to cover the cost of the rental,
 the extra insurance or having a second person able to drive the car
 (which costs more in my area), or any other rental options are the
 customers responsibilty!!!  The dealer also isn't going to pay for you
 to drive around in some high priced luxury car either.  I won't even get
 into all the stories of this same situation & having customers threaten
 to call my dealer principal or my zone manager because I wouldn't cover
 their extra insurance, the luxo-model & so forth.  They all had been
 told the rental car would be covered... and that's exactly all that was
 covered, nothing more!.
 Now, I don't know the details of your situation... All I can do is help
 explain how the process works from a dealer's side.  If any of these
 above do apply to you, I hate to say this but you may be s.o.l. - if
 not, you do have a good case to go on & your best bet would be trying to
 work this out w/ your dealer again. If that gets you nowhere - ask for
 the district/zone managers name/address/phone # & try resolving it w/
 him/her.  If that still doesn't work, contact Toyota (in Cal.) again
 along w/ your local Better Business Bureau.
 Wish you good luck in getting this matter resolved.
 Chris === jckeeling@erols.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:35:58 -0800
 From: "Todd and Terry Steele"  Subject: Rubicon page
 To: "Toyota Digest"  If you haven't already looked, take a look at Chris Geiger's Rubicon page
 for this summers trip.  He's added lots of pictures and it looks really good
 as far as letting everyone know who's coming, what they're bringing and what
 their truck/runner looks like.
 It's at http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/rubicon/rubicon98
 Todd
 His:  87 Toyota 4X4, Marlin Tcase #180, EZ Lockers F/R, Custom rear bumper
 and nerfs, Ramsey F bumper, Trailmaster/Superlift 4", 33-9.5 BFG MT's.
 Custom Body by Sierra Nevada.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:06:35 -0800
 From: "j. sather"  Subject: soft brakes
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I just spent the past two days installing a three inch lift in my 83 toy ,
 to find I have a soft brake pedal. First thought air in lines   ,
 second master cylinder  , third prop valve ?????  I tried to adjust it
 in a few ways but no difference.
 Wold the incorrect prop valve adjustment give me a soft pedal ????
 i don`t know but I think not. Rear shoes are low but pedal was fine prior to
 lift install .       PLEASE HELP  I`m going crazy
 lana & jamie sather
 cruiser4x4@coastnet.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:01:28 EST
 From: DRM033  Subject: Speedo adjustment - rebuttle - rebuttle
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 In a message dated 98-01-20 16:37:59 EST, you write:>>  Well, after reading this, I had to calm down before I composed my reply to>  this....
 SNIP-SNIP-SNIPPITY-SNIP (LOTS)>  So now who is the scum-bag that jumps to conclusions?>  - Brian
 Settle down there little puppy!!! , you took a JOKE (at least thats how I saw
 it) way too seroius.  lighten up.
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 David Moore                       DRM033@aol.com
 90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
 4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
 TLCA #5662
 Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:16:14 -0800
 From: Dee Smith  Subject: Speedometer adjustment - Here is what I Did....
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, bwiencek@kcnet.com
 bwiencek@kcnet.com wrote:>>> I take that response personally since I'm the one that was asking the> question. If I were you, I wouldn't jump to conclusions before you know the> facts.
 - -----> Hey Brian, I Agree with you!
 I was in a similar situation as yourself.
 Here is what I did with my 1986 4Runner.
 On my origional Instrument "deluxe" cluster, showed 234,000 miles
 but I wanted the "SR5 Instrument cluster" so as too have the
 Tachometer, Oil Pressure Guage, Mileage Trip meter, etcetra.
 The problem was:
 The "SR5 Cluster" had Much Less mileage showing.
 SOLUTION:
 I documented the "origional mileage" and the mileage from the
 "donor" instrument cluster.
 Now I know the EXACT mileage on my 1986 4Runner currently is:
 239,500 origional miles!  :-)
 According to Alabama Law:
 if you "Notate" the mileage and have it documented, Its Legal,
 so No Problemo!  :-)
 By the Way, my 4Runner is a 22R EFI "Automatic" Bone Stock and
 gets 16.7 MPG City!!  :-)
 Regards,
 M.D. Smith, V
 aka "Dee Smith"
 Huntsville, Alabama>   I knew that I'd get someone making comments like this.  If I wanted to roll> my speedo back, there's a dozen ways to do it and there are probably some>since it's really got 209K, and the highest mileage one the>junk yard had was 148k -> they also had one that had 107k ->> I want the mileage to match the maintenance records so there is no> question *IF* I ever want to sell the 4 Runner - and that's a mighty>big IF, since I just bought it a couple of months ago,> sank almost $2500 into mods....>>>OK, this might sound like a dumb question to some of you, but I just>swapped a SR-5 insturment cluster (tach, oil press, etc) into my '85>4Runner with the standard speedo only guage.>My truck had 209xxx miles on it and the>> new>> cluster shows 148xxx miles.>I need to adjust this mileage to reflect the true mileage of the truck.> - Brian
 Hey Brian,
 Let me know if 'ya need any help with your Innstrument cluster
 Swap.  BTW, you will need to replace the "Oil Sending Unit"
 from the "Idiot light" sender to the "Guage Sending unit"
 It cost me about $12 dollars at my local "Autozone / Pep boys"
 Parts store, just tell 'em you need an "Oil sending unit" for:
 Your year model truck and when they ask what type?
 Tell them 'ya got a Guage NOT the "idiot light".  :-)
 Good luck!
 Dee Smith
 Huntsville, Alabama
 1986 Toyota 4Runner 22R EFI "Automatic" gets: 16.7 MPG City!
 and she is Proudly sporting 239,500 origional miles. Thank you!
 "everyday"  :-)
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:46:35 -0700
 From: "Jay Kopycinski"  Subject: SPRING ME
 To: Toyota 4x4 List  michael carroll  wrote:
 snip>i do know that the back is cut lower but what would be the correct>lift of the new spring to get the vehicle height right ?
 You could figure it out several ways. Jack up the front until it's level,
 measuring the before and after fender or bumper heights. You could
 drive the front tires up on some plywood pieces or something similar,
 changing heights until you're satisfied with the height.>I really don't want to spend the 300 again on alcan !!>downey has the 3" spring but do I need that much height ?
 Dunno, how high do you want the front?> Will the spring settle to a lower ride height once ridden on ?
 Yes, the packs will settle and then continue to sag over time
 based on use and the quality and design of the spring.
 Jay Kopycinski    '85 Toylet  (ROKTOY)
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:41:10 -1000 (HST)
 From: "Patrick J. Chicas"  Subject: t0y4x4: new test
 To: FiXXiT@bigfoot.com
 Greetings,
 There must be a banner with the ORC url as a header or footer to every
 message that is generated by our server. This comes down to recognition by
 the new reader, wether via the net orphysically delivered copy of a
 message. Without the cash for a PR Hack and advertising, we really must
 make every effort to capture any and every opportunity to spread our name.
 Thanks for asking.
 PJC
 On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Jason K. Schechner wrote:> On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Scott Wilson wrote:>>>> =====================================================>>> This list courtesy of Off-Road.Com: http://www.off-road.com>>>> Is the footer mandatory?  Its not that I don't think ORC deserves credit>> or anything...it personally just think it overkill and a waste of>> bandwidth.   Most people on the toy4x4 list understand they're on a ORC>> list...and visit the the site already...>> 	I think so.  I've put it on all the lists I've set up and I think> it's a good idea to have a link back to ORC's site.  What I could do is> put it in the headers, though a lot of people trim those out.  Pat, what> do you think?  We're talking about the new majordomoized toy4x4 list.>> -Jason>> -----> Jason K. Schechner  -   check out www.cauce.org and help ban spam-mail.> =The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has bounds=> PJC
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:02:25 EST
 From: ishi-tib@juno.com (J Doherty)
 Subject: tach adj
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 hey with all this talk of swapin gages I was wondering if any one
 could tell me how to adjust the tach. I got a SR5 combo meter from a junk
 yard not knowing it came from a V-6 so my 22RE is redlining 3k on the
 tach. I've heard you can add a resistor to it to compinsate does any one
 know where?
 - -Jack-
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:05:48 -0800
 From: "Allen Jensen"  Subject: Tire Deflators - fixed
 To:  Sorry about the bad post. The page was there, but I uploaded the wrong home
 page version so it wasn't listed there. It's fixed now.
 http://members.home.com/aj7
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:25:30 EST
 From: CowbyUp77  Subject: Truck Pricing
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I need your advise again.  On two things actually.
 1. I need to know what you all think is a fair price for the following:
 1985 Toyota Xtra-cab 4x4 - PS - Tool box - Custom Light Bar - 40ch CB - AM/FM/
 Cassette - Tool pouch - Brush Guard - New Warn Hubs - New Clutch - Well taken
 care of - Pre wired for Two off-road lights on top - Dent on Front right
 fender - light dents in bed floor - Interior clean with floor mats.
 I'm looking for a good starting price.
 2. I'm looking at an '85 4Runner and here's what I've found out so far about
 it.
 1985 Toyota 4Runner - Inside smells like a sleazy Motel (The truck is on a
 lot) - Clutch is going out - Wiper seals are bad(possibly more) - Engine oil
 leak(not sure where from) - Exhaust leak(off of Manifold) - Window on Tail
 gate won't go down or up - Dents on Roof - Console inbetween seats is broke -
 Cage over the rear.
 What would any of you pay for this truck??  ( A ball park number
 would suffice).  The dealer wants $6000.  To me thats sounds way to high.  I
 know it's hard to say with out seeing it but any idea would help.
 Thanks,
 Chuck
 ==============================================================================
 Chuck Thomas		               CowbyUp77@aol.com
 Ashland, OR
 ==============================================================================
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 02:14:56 -0600
 From: breeze@cysource.com (Jeffrey Delzer)
 Subject: Truck Pricing
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 CowbyUp77 wrote:>> I need your advise again.  On two things actually.> 1. I need to know what you all think is a fair price for the following:> 1985 Toyota Xtra-cab 4x4 - PS - Tool box - Custom Light Bar - 40ch CB - AM/FM/>> 2. I'm looking at an '85 4Runner and here's what I've found out so far about
 Have you run these vehicles through the Kelly Blue Book? That should get
 you a good starting point. Check out http://www.kbb.com.
 Jeff Delzer
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:00:29 -0800
 From: David Fritzsche  Subject: Turn Signals
 To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"  The aftermarket turn signals are higher wattage. You need to get a heavy
 duty flasher just like when you pull a trailer.
 David Fritzsche
 1990 ex-cab V-6
 4:88 gears, Tru-Trak front, ARB rear
 Marlin 4.70:1 gear change (not in yet, just got it Sunday)
 Pro-Comp II, 4" NWOR rear springs
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 00:01:34 EST
 From: DRM033  Subject: vented disk swap: better stops?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I was looking at the info on the vented disc swap for solid axle trucks.  Does
 this offer a noticable increase in breaking?  We have already put an IFS rear
 axle in an 84 truck, mainly for the larger brakes.  With 35's, this truck just
 plain needs more help in the braking dept.
 thanks!
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 David Moore                       DRM033@aol.com
 90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
 4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
 TLCA #5662
 Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
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 End of Toy4x4 Digest
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