Toy4x4 Digest          Fri,  2 Jan 98 12:30:02 (HST)  Volume 1 : Issue 631
 Today's Topics:
 20R Head on 22R Block...
 22RE? 22R? (2 msgs)
 35" Tires fit?? (2 msgs)
 8" Full Floater/Disc Brakes (3 msgs)
 86runner
 87 4Runner Tranny Trouble
 Bio
 CA Legal Headers
 EFNet IRC Chat Channel: #toyota
 full floater rear
 Heavier flywheel
 Latest....Head gasket (long story)
 Possible Ban on ALL SUSPENSION MODS in Colorado
 Rear amplified speakers in '87 4runner (2 msgs)
 Speakers in 4 Runners / Foam baffles
 Those strange clips
 Toy4x4 Digest V1 #627
 Transmission Identification
 Tyres that fit (or dont)
 won't start
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:42:04 -0600 (CST)
 From: Brian Wiencek  Subject: 20R Head on 22R Block...
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I recently read an e-mail posted here about the swap which prompted my => question.  Is the swap relatively safe?  I have an 83 Celica GT-S with a => 22R-E engine (fuel injected).  Can I put in a 20R head and simply bolt => on my stock intake from the 22R-E on to it? And if so, theoretically => speaking, the smaller chamber will increase my compression and thus =
 First, please check your mail settings, you're sending HTML attachments.
 Second, yes the head will bolt to the block, you exhaust will bolt to the
 head, the smaller chambers will increase compression, but NO the intake
 WILL NOT fit the 20R head without extensive welding, porting, machining,
 etc.  The 22R head will allow you to mill it a bit, but you'll need an
 adjustable timing gear for the cam timing.  It can be made by drilling
 holes 1 degree off of the angle between teeth (9 degrees?) all around the
 gear, then yo'll have a gear that is adjustable by +- 6 degrees or so.
 Swap to an aftermarket cam & headers and you'll notice a definate
 improvement in power.
 - -Brian
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:39:30 -0500
 From: Mojo  Subject: 22RE? 22R?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I need some reassurance before I fork over some cash. I think my 83 short block has had it, been bored twice,
 up to .40 over now becoming unboreable. I recently replaced rings still not gettting very good compression. The
 head is good as well as all the other stuff like headers cam etc... so I would like to slap those on a good
 short block. Can I use a short block from a 22RE with my head, the short block is the same with EFI or Carbed
 right? I would pefer to use a newer block something in the late 80's or early 90's range. I'm thinking I can,
 only thing I'm worried about is the 83  head not fitting on a newer block I noticed that some of them look a
 little different in front (timing chain area).
 Any help on this subject would be a great help.
 Sheldon
 sgard@flnet.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 98 11:58:56 -0600
 From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
 Subject: 22RE? 22R?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On Fri, 02 Jan 1998, Mojo  wrote:>I need some reassurance before I fork over some cash. I think my 83 short
<>>right? I would pefer to use a newer block something in the late 80's or>early 90's range. I'm thinking I can, only thing I'm worried about is the 83>head not fitting on a newer block I noticed that some of them look a>little different in front (timing chain area).
 Well, physically they will bolt up, but you won't like the way it runs - the
 'pre 84.8' heads have the larger combustion chamber and require the use of
 'domed' pistons.  The later models use flat-top pistons, and a smaller
 chamber in the head to achieve the same compression ratio.  Also the earlier
 timing chain is longer due to the higher deck height of the block, and the
 longer cam-to-head surface centerline.  While the old head **may** be
 machined to fit it's a LOT of material to remove, and the potential for
 mis-alignments in the cam timing / lifter area is great.  Another option is
 to use the early style pistons in the late model block with your early head -
 this actually raises compression a bit due to the fact that the '85-up blocks
 have a (2mm??) lower deck height.
 Find a good late model long-block and bolt up all your parts to it - you'll
 be happier in the long run than trying to piece something together.
 - - Brian
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:59:02 -0800
 From: Gregg R Hayford  Subject: 35" Tires fit??
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 I currently have a '93 Toy with a 3" body lift and 33" Thornbirds.  I am
 hopefully purchasing the 3" Rancho sus. lift that was for sale on here a
 week or so ago and would like to purchase some 35" Super Swamper SX's.
 I had very little rubbing with the 33's and am curious if I am going to
 run into problems with the 35's,  even with 3 more inches of lift.
 Appreciate all the help.
 Gregg
 ------------------------------
 Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 00:22:16 -0800
 From: Chris Geiger  Subject: 35" Tires fit??
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 You will need to trim the fenders a little.
 Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
 Gregg R Hayford wrote:> I currently have a '93 Toy with a 3" body lift and 33" Thornbirds.  I am> hopefully purchasing the 3" Rancho sus. lift that was for sale on here a> week or so ago and would like to purchase some 35" Super Swamper SX's.> I had very little rubbing with the 33's and am curious if I am going to> run into problems with the 35's,  even with 3 more inches of lift.> Appreciate all the help.>> Gregg
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:16:26 -0600
 From: Jack Alford  Subject: 8" Full Floater/Disc Brakes
 To:  "Craig Blanchette" wrote:>A couple of years back, I remember reading about a company that modified 8">toy axles to full floating with manual hubs in either disc or drum format.>Anybody else ever hear of this? Did one ton toys (2wd) ever come with a full>floater. I'd kiss Toyota if they did and go off hunting for one.
 Well go kiss Toyota I guess .... They've been making 2WD 1-tons with 8"
 full floaters
 for years now. The thing is that they have an odd 6 on something like 7"
 bolt pattern,
 it's really odd.  If you have a U-haul truck rental place in your town you
 can drive up
 there an look at their little toyota u-haul trucks and see a full-floater.
 Toyota also
 put them in their 1-ton trucks (special order jobs mainly that come without
 beds - quite
 a few parking lot 'vacuum trucks' around here like this), and their little
 motor homes (Schinook and Dolphin).
 - jack
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:59:03 EST
 From: DRM033  Subject: 8" Full Floater/Disc Brakes
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 In a message dated 98-01-02 10:20:28 EST, you write:> They've been making 2WD 1-tons with 8">  full floaters>  for years now. The thing is that they have an odd 6 on something like 7">  bolt pattern,>  it's really odd.
 Not that I am interested, but if you wanted one, it would not be that hard to
 have one re-drilled for a new bolt pattern. would it?
 David
 DRM033@aol.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:52:56 -1000
 From: kevin watters  Subject: 8" Full Floater/Disc Brakes
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 At 09:23 PM 1/1/98 -0800, you wrote:>A couple of years back, I remember reading about a company that modified 8">toy axles to full floating with manual hubs in either disc or drum format.>Anybody else ever hear of this? Did one ton toys (2wd) ever come with a full>floater. I'd kiss Toyota if they did and go off hunting for one.>>Craig Blanchette>blanchet@cnx.net>http://www.cnx.net/~blanchet/craig.htm>> As I remember all the one ton toy's came with a full floater in the rear. I
 still have the sales brochure from 93 when I bought my last new toy and the
 2wd 1tons are listed with a full floater.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:11:25 -1000
 From: kevin watters  Subject: 86runner
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I thought i would throw this out there to see if you guys thought it was
 worth it for an 86 4runner, 175K,for   $700.00  Runs good but tranny bad,
 cracked windshield,dings in body, haven't seen it yet but I'm guessing that
 it is rough. For the price it sounded like a good fixer-upper.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:59:37 -0700
 From: "Will Watt"  Subject: 87 4Runner Tranny Trouble
 To:  Before I went on a 1200 mile trip across MT and back to see the family for
 the holidays I thought that I would change the oil in the tranny and rear
 end in my 87 runner.  I read in the manual to use 75w-90 in the tranny so I
 used Castrol Syntec gear oil which is 75w-90.  About 600 miles into my
 journey I started hearing a very loud chatter from the tranny when I'm
 accelerating.  It does it in all gears except 4th which is the 1:1 gear.
 I'm sure I put the oil in right and I used around 3.5qts which filled up to
 th fill plug.  Does anyone have any ideas? Is this a bad choice for gear
 oil? At $7 qt I hope not!  Is it possible to mess up such a seemingly easy
 job as changing tranny fluid?  OR was it just coinincidence that I changed
 the oil just before it happened?  Thank you all for your knowledge and
 support.
 Will
 87 4runner 118000mi, Downey header, K&N,  and a ton of soul.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:14:08 EST
 From: mahealani@juno.com (michael M GERARD)
 Subject: Bio
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org>Personal Bio Info>Name:Michael Gerard>>City & State:Kula, Maui>>Country:Hawai'i>>E-mail address:Mahealani@juno.com>>Toyota (s) year & model:  Mine:  1985 Toyota 4Runner/  Hers:  1994
 4Runner>>Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?):no>>Age:23>>Occupation:Just Graduated with B.A.>>Marital Status:Married>>Hobbies:Motor cycling,  mopeding, 4wheeling,  anything outdoors,
 mechanics>>How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List: Jay's webpage>>General info about your vehicle, self, etc.:>>I bought my first 4x4, a 1985 4runner that had a carb in it.  I didn't
 know that it was supposed to be injected.  Rebuilt the motor at 125,000
 miles.  Presently:
 3 inch lift
 33" Thornbirds
 Stock gearing( 5.29's on order)
 32/36 weber (looking at an injector setup from a Celica GT-S)
 Planned Mods:
 3.8L Buick swap(  Bought a whole kit made by Advance Adapters for $500
 including a engine with a centerforce clutch,  crome headers,  and a high
 rise manifold from a guy)
 Flowmaster exhaust
 5.29 gearing
 35" tires
 Try to figure out it if the '85 Celica GT-S rear disk-brake set up will
 adapt to the '85 rear end
 1994 4Runner is bone stock(  67,000 miles and no head gasket
 problem...Knock on wood !!!)
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:42:21 -0500
 From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
 Subject: CA Legal Headers
 To: jbrower@qualcomm.com, toy4x4@tlca.org
 Subject: California Smog II-compliant header for 22RE?
 Last I heard - LC Engineering was working on getting
 their header "legal" status. Id prefre them over Downey..
 EWong
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:14:19 -0500
 From: Charles Rouzer  Subject: EFNet IRC Chat Channel: #toyota
 To: landcruisers@tlca.org, toy4x4@tlca.org
 Hey guys,
 I've decided to start an EFNet IRC Chat Channel.  I decided to devote
 it to all Toyotas even tho my main interest is in Land Cruisers.  It is
 still in the trial stages to see if any traffic and usage becomes of
 it.  I have seen other chat channels attempt to be started, but none
 have caught on, so I figured I would take my best shot at it.  I've been
 sitting in the #h**p channel too long now.  ;-)  But thanks to the nice
 owner of the #h**p channel bot, he is allowing us to use their bot
 temporarily.  ;-)
 It is located on the EFNet, so any EFNet server will do.  One I connect
 to often is irc.idt.net the channel is called #toyota ... A bot has been
 temporarily setup until we can see if a permanent bot will be needed.
 The reason I chose EFNet is because of its size (largest IRC network).
 The reason I chose IRC is because of its standard and multiplatform
 capabilities.  Anyone who has the time to help get this channel started
 and will stick around will be given op privileges.  Thanks!
 Chuck
 P.S.  My nick is Mr_You.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:51:25 -0500
 From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
 Subject: full floater rear
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Umm -
 I know we *would* prefer to build it ourselves - but for those with more $$ than knowhow -
 Summers Brothers MAKES a kit to full float rear kit. I believe they adapt their Jeep
 model 20 full floater kit to take the yota 4 bolt pattern and get custom axles made
 up (like they dont know how to do THAT)...
 Last I heard - it was like $600 for the shebang - also it accepted Warn hubs - so
 you *could* get manual hubs if ya wanted...
 EWong
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 17:07:50 -0500
 From: Charles Brooks  Subject: Heavier flywheel
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 I just checked on the cost of a heavier fly wheel for an 83 22R
 at summit they wanted 269 for it does anyone know of a cheaper
 source?
 Charles Brooks
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:32:38 -0800
 From: Scott Wilson  Subject: Latest....Head gasket (long story)
 To: Toy4x4 List  I developed a noise in the engine compartment last week...I was told by
 my mechanic it was probably the timing belt tensioner.   So I'm thinking
 to myself...'How can I get this done for less $$.'    :-)   'What if I
 could talk Toyota into doing my headgasket, then it would cost next to
 nothing!'
 So this morning I drive into Steven's Creek Toyota, talk to the service
 writer that was working with me on the tranny...I'm very upfront with
 him and tell him the HG has not gone yet...but I hear roomers that
 Toyota is gonna make it an actual 'recall' and not just a warrenty, and
 that I have some addintional work that I'd like to have them do while
 the engine is apart.
 We check my VIN against the "recall/warrenty list" (it's unclear exactly
 which to call it)  and my VIN is not on there.  He tells me to hold
 on...and goes to talk with the Service Manager.   It seems there is a
 GREY AREA that you can take advantage of if you HAVE NOT recieved notice
 from Toyota.  If you never got notice in the mail of the HG problem,
 then it is up to the Service manager to decide if your HG will be
 covered.
 We got the green light...so they're gonna do it for me.  Then of course
 he pulls out the LIST of work that I can have done a severely discounted
 prices becuase the engine will be out.  Basically for very little money,
 I'm gonna have my engine completely re-done.
 Here's what I chose to do...
 - -replace H20 pump
 - -replace thermostat
 (I some of you will get a kick outta that one :-)
 - -replace belts
 - -crankseal
 - -do the valves
 - -replace rings & bearing, hone cylinder
 - -distributer O-ring
 - -replace fuel pump dampener
 - -idler/tensioner, timing belt
 - -oil pump (if they end up decking the block)
 - -new plugs
 - -new radiator hoses
 The bill....just under $2000   but......Steven's Creek gives a TLCA
 discount...so it'll only be $1500  :-)  Not bad at all for a pracitcally
 an new engine.  And considering I had the tranny re-built last week, the
 truck is gonna be practically brand new again.  :-)
 Them hope to have it back to me in 7 days.
 Scott
 - --
 _____
 /_/_|_\__      Scott Wilson
 | _     _ :     Santa Clara, CA
 */_\---/_\'     http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
 (_)   (_)
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 15:43:34 -0500
 From: Charles Brooks  Subject: Possible Ban on ALL SUSPENSION MODS in Colorado
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Hey everybody go check this out
 http://www.sema.org/consumer/fedleg/stateredhot/coloradosuspension.html
 This can't be for real can it?!?! Alright Jeff, Howdja do it?!?!  ;)
 Charles Brooks
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:18:14 -0500
 From: bhayward@fnet.friendlynet.com
 Subject: Rear amplified speakers in '87 4runner
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Ed,
 Thanks for your reply.  I k new something was up with the rear speakers.
 I've installed many radios in vehicles with no problem.
 The external switch line you refer to would be the line that runs to a
 seperate amp., correct?  This would imply that a stock setup has a
 seperate amp?
 I'm installing a new Pioner Supertuner with an indash disk player.  It
 has a line that would connect to a separat amp.  Now I'm thinking about
 installing a seperate amp while everything is down.
 I liked the stock readio O.K. but it melted down at Christmas, had to go
 out and  buy a new unit, gee darn.BFG:)
 I'm going to go out now and start tearing things apart (I'm good at this
 stage).
 Thanks for your help,
 Bruce
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:35:27 -0500
 From: Ed Ruf  Subject: Rear amplified speakers in '87 4runner
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On 09:18 AM 1/2/98 -0500, bhayward@fnet.friendlynet.com wrote:>Ed,>Thanks for your reply.  I k new something was up with the rear
 speakers.> I've installed many radios in vehicles with no problem.>>The external switch line you refer to would be the line that runs to
 a>seperate amp., correct?  This would imply that a stock setup has a>seperate amp?
 The amps are in the speakers themselves. All you need to do is
 supplied switched power to them. Again, this assumes these are the
 powered speakers. You can check them for an additional connector.>I'm installing a new Pioner Supertuner with an indash disk player.
 It>has a line that would connect to a separat amp.
 This is the line you should connect. I, initially mistakenly
 connected to line to power an antenna and only had rear speakers when
 playing the radio, not CD or cassette.
 Ed
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:57:41 -0500
 From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
 Subject: Speakers in 4 Runners / Foam baffles
 To: DRM033@aol.com, Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Yeah - Crutchfield has em - I think XTC makes em.
 The make a "deep" one and a shallow one. The Gen1 4Runners
 have an "intrusion" in that area and "deep" speakers can
 get "iffy" on a fit basis.
 Speaking of speakers - I run Bose 101 box speakers mounted
 to the roll bar at the top near the ceiling. Not very
 efficient powerwise - but do sound great.
 EWong>>> I have 4" Infinity Kappa's in the dash of my truck, and would love to know
 where to find foam baffles to install behind them.  Does anyone have any phone
 #'s?  Does Crutchfield have 'em?
<<<------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:31:12 -0500
 From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
 Subject: Those strange clips
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 I believe these are called "tinerman" clips...>>> then those
 clips that usually are found with speakers that the screw goes into?  I don't
 know what they're called, but they either are a piece of rectangualr metal with
 a split hole in the middle, or they are in the shape of a clip - they keep the
 screw anchored in.>>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:14:08 EST
 From: mahealani@juno.com (michael M GERARD)
 Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #627
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:59:45 -0500>From: "Bouganim, Jeff" >Subject: 4WD VIBRATION>I'm not sure what to do here.  My 1995 4runner has a>vibration/groaning>noise which is abnormal.  It  only happens in 4wd.  I've test driven a>similar 4runner in 4wd and it worked fine so I know I'm not crazy.>The>noise/vibration seems to occur at all speeds and is coming out of the>drivetrain somewhere (ie. it feels like is occurrs at the same speed>as>the wheels turning).>Jeff,
 We have a 1994 4runner that has similar problem.  When making
 right turns on uneven ground,  or when letting out the clutch,  there is
 a vibration noise.  It is somong from the driver side.  The Toyota dealer
 has no clue so I investigated myself.  I found that the steering shaft
 from the steering wheel to the steering box has some play that might be
 possibly making the vibration.  I don't know if there is supposed to be
 play there?  I don't see anyway of tightening is as well.  If anyone can
 comment much thanks.  I've heard that many Toyotas have a "vibration"
 sound from friends who also owns Toyotas.
 Mahealani@juno.com
 1985/1994 4Runners
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:21:32 -0500
 From: Mojo  Subject: Transmission Identification
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:27:14 -0700> From: daves8@juno.com (DAVE SCHOENBERG)> Subject: Transmission Identification> To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>> The infamous 81-82-83 5-speed has a one-piece case--> the bell housing is> part of the trans case.  The 83-1/2 good one has a separate bellhousing.
 I think as far as the crappy trannys go the 83 is the best of the solid bellhousing series, I belive that it
 has a larger input bearing than the earlier modles although not as big as the 84 and above.
 Jimmy might be able to clear this up cus he just bought my 83 Tranny and a I suggested he replace the input
 bearing before installing it in his truck.
 Btw I replaced my 83 unit with a 92 5 speed, it was very easy to do, I used the crossmember in it's stock
 location and made an extension out of 1/4" plate looks something like that transfer relocation plate that NWOR
 sells.
 Sheldon
 sgard@flnet.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:08:17 -0500
 From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
 Subject: Tyres that fit (or dont)
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Adding to the controversy ow what tyres fit and dont fit
 (Gen1 4Runner (89) with no IFS lift and stock (aka sagging) torsion
 bar adjustment (256K miles))
 Tyres - 235/80R16 Nokia Hakka 10s
 They measure 31.25" unladen (aka on the floor)
 They rub the inner fender liner when turning sharply
 They would probably "cut" on the body seam under full
 compression in a turn.
 They do work well in moderate depth snow/muck in terms
 of cutting down to roadway below.
 EWong
 ------------------------------
 Date: Fri, 02 Jan 98 11:58:32 -0600
 From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
 Subject: won't start
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Is this engine Fuel Injected??  **IF** I remember right they changed TPS
 sensors between the years - Might check that... Otherwise, normal
 troubleshooting procedures apply.
 - - Brian
 On Thu, 01 Jan 1998, ishi-tib@Juno.com (J Doherty) wrote:>	I recently got a 88 p/u w/o a head I thought I could fix it and>maybe turn it for a profit. I then got a head and intake from an 85 p/u.>After putting it all back together it won't start . It cranks normally
 ------------------------------
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