Toy4x4 Digest          Sat,  5 Apr 97 00:30:03 (HST)  Volume 1 : Issue 120
Today's Topics:
 '96 V-6 Taco Head Gasket-20,000 miles
 88 4Runner 5-speed shifting probs
 bio (3 msgs)
 did i see this rare bird?(kind of long) (6 msgs)
 Digesters jinxed our 4Runne
 Emissions Equipment (3 msgs)
 FJ45
 Gears
 Haynes manuals (2 msgs)
 Head gasket
 helloooooo (2 msgs)
 Intermittent Wipers
 lots'o'stuff!
 Mud Tires Needed
 Off Road Novices
 Old Messages
 Old Toy gears
 PCV VALVE??
 shifter seat and bushing (3 msgs)
 Shifts hard
 Smittybilt Roll Cage
 Subject: 22RE missing?
 Suspension Travel
 tire size=rpm
 Toy4x4 Digest V1 #115 (2 msgs)
 Trail Blazers and Trekkers (was "rare bird")
 Trail Blazers and Trekkers 2 (was "rare bird")
 truck pruchase
 UM OK
 Valve tapping (3 msgs)
 WartHog
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:32:20 -0600
From: hosse@okway.okstate.edu (Hoss Eubank)
Subject: '96 V-6 Taco Head Gasket-20,000 miles
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, toyota@btoy1.rochester.ny.us
 I just got off the phone with Jim Norton Toyota of Tulsa.  The
 customer service manager, Helen Clark, happily refunded my money for
 the loaner car that I was charged for.
 She explained that they had found problems with my head gasket when
 they investigated the valve cover gaskets.  Since my truck was already
 there and the motor was already stripped down, they decided to go
 ahead and replace the head gasket to save me an inevitable trip back.
 I guess those guys at Jim Norton were really doing me a favor by
 thinking ahead.  My apologies for any implied improprieties.
 William Eubank
 Stillwater, OK.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:57:36 -0800
From: "Joe 'Viene la tormenta' Brower" 
Subject: 88 4Runner 5-speed shifting probs
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Howdy,
Last November I bought a 1988 4Runner 4x4 22RE with a 5-speed manual tranny
and 89,0000 miles on it, which has developed a problem in the last month
that I was hoping some of you might be able to shed some light on.  FYI,
I'm no mechanic -- I can swap a tire or change my oil & filter OK, but the
rest I try to leave to the experts 
.
PROBLEM:
Whenever I'm up-shifting, the gearshift lever resists getting into gear,
accompanied by a "shik" sound, or a "grrr-shik" (with accompanying lever
vibration), before it finally goes into gear.  This is with the clutch
pressed to the floor, and the pedal is properly adjusted so I don't think
it's a clutch problem.  This prob is especially pronounced when going from
1st to 2nd or, even more troublesome is 2nd to 3rd.  Interestingly, this
behavior doesn't appear when down-shifting, just going up the gears.  It
seems to me that this problem started after the clutch master-cylinder took
a dump one day and I had to speed-shift the poor critter several times over
several miles to get back home.  I've been told that this may have damaged
a "synchronizer gear", and that fixing this involves removing the whole
tranny, etc., etc.  I notice that I can diminish this problem quite a bit
(tho' not entirely) if I "pause" in neutral for a second when I'm shifting,
which is not always an option in big-city rush-hour traffic.
The clutch master-cylinder was replaced by the parts store, but the
resulting damage it's failure may have caused I get to live with, I guess.
C'est la vie.  But, does this sound plausible?  Does this sound to you all
like a "synchronizer gear" problem, or what else could it be?  And,
whatever it is, what do you suggest to resolve it?  I've been told that
this could also be normal wear and tear and that my 4Runner could keep
going another 100K miles with no real difficulty from this, but... I
appreciate any and all help anyone out there can provide.
Thanks and cheers,
Joe Brower
Senior Programmer/Analyst, QUALCOMM Incorporated
jbrower@qualcomm.com
voice#:    619.658.4716      http://www.cynic.com/JB.html
cellular#: 619.977.4483      Mac/Win 3.1/Omnis/Oracle/CDE!
=======================================================================
"I would have written less if I had more time."    - Voltaire
=======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:15:43 +0000
From: "kristjan.hugvit" 
Subject: bio
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Name:Kristjan Finnsson
City & State:Reykjavik
Country:Iceland
E-mail address:kristjan@hugvit.is
Toyota (s) year & model:1992, double cab hilux
Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?):No
Age:25
Occupation:Software Engineer
Marital Status:Poor, i.e. single
Hobbies:4x4 and bridge
How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List:Internet
General info about your vehicle, self, etc.:
I bought my toy a year ago, driven 70k km with no modification
at all. It came with the 2.4 EFI engine.
Since then I've
* Lifted it 4"
* Installed 38x15.5 Gateway mudders, on 14" wheels,
 this did take some major cutting and rebuilding :)
* 5.29:1
* Made a new exhaust system
* Air condition system and 30l tank for it,
 keeps a 150psi pressure
* Added a gas tank, 100l
* NoSpin in the rear diff
* Welded the front diff
* Strengthed the base for all the pulling.
* Build a 3" tube bumber, double in the rear, with
 3" receiver hitch for the winch and some hooks to
 fasten ropes and stuff.  I get stuck alot :)  Also
 used as a extra air tank.
* build 2 1/2" tube bumper with receiver hitch for the
 winch in the front.
* Had a carpender make toolboxes in the rear (he owed
 me some money :)
* Plastic house in the rear.
* Swapped the original battery for a 140A one
* Special fuse and relay box for all the extra stuff
 including:
 Inside:Garmin GPS 120, Gateway laptop, 2xCB, HF,
 Mobile phone, map light, compass, warmer
 Outside: Working lights in the rear 2x80w,
 2x85w PIAA ion fog ligths, 2x130/180w PIAA driving
 lights, quick connection for the winch both in the
 front and rear, PIAA search light on the top, cutout
 system for the air condition pump (pressure
 controled sensor connected to the clutch on the pump)
There are some minor stuff I'm forgetting but thats basicly it.
Some future plans:
* Swap the fron 7.5" IFS for a 8" on springs.
* Install springs in the rear.
* Move the rear axle back about 4"
* ARB's front and rear.
* Third member.  (*** I need some comments on what and how)
* Turbo.  Toyota has one (part no:1720135010) but I would like
 to get some comments on the sanity of that.  The engine
 has been driven 100k km by now.
* If not turbo.  A 305, 327 or 350 and totally go bananas :)
Somebody might be thinking what on earth I'm doing with such
large tires and wide wheels.  The answer to that one is that
here in iceland we do our offroading in snow.  From the capital
there is about an hour drive, during the summer, to the neares
glacier.  From sep until mai we drive all around the center of
Iceland on snow. A friend of mine has a identical car as mine,
with 44" FC on 16" wheels, but he has a 305 under the hood. So
you see that I'm still in the kid stuff.
I'm looking forward to reading this group.
Stjani
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 10:09:57 EST
From: elbutcho@juno.com (Paul Tom)
Subject: Bio
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Personal Bio Info
Name:  Paul Tom
City & State:  San Diego, California
Country:  USA
E-mail address:  elbutcho@juno.com
Toyota (s) year and model:  none yet, looking for pickup
Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?):  No
Age:  23
Occupation:  student/diver
Marital Status:  single
Hobbies:  diving, backpacking, skiing, biking
How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List:  accidently came
across it
General info about your vehicle, self, etc.:   I don't actually own a
Toyota 4x4 yet but I am looking into buying either a '90 or newer pickup
or possibly a mid eighties Landcruiser.  Any info about what to look
for/what to avoid is greatly appreciated!  So far all I've heard is to
stay away from the 3.0 liter V6?  Thanks in advance!  -Paul
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:21:00 -0500
From: "Terwilliger, Jim, , SAF/AADF" 
Subject: Bio
To: Toyota List 
Personal Bio Info
POST TO THE LIST ONLY >> toy4x4@tlca.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Name:	Jim TWIG Terwilliger
City & State:	Vienna, VA
Country:	USA
E-mail address:	jterwill@af.pentagon.mil
Toyota (s) year & model:	1986 4Runner
Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?):	Not yet
Age:	47
Occupation:	Analyst, Dept of the Air Force
Marital Status:	Married
Hobbies:		Sports Car Club of America Corner Worker - 15+ events a year
(I maintain a SCCA National Flag License)
 Whenever possible, I attend the various NASCAR series races (Winston
Cup, Busch, and Trucks on down to the local bull ring)
 Member of, but no longer active in, the American Mensa Society
How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List:	search on
4Runner
General info about your vehicle, self, etc.:
1986 stock 4Runner with 162,000 miles
I've changed oil religioiusly every 2,500 to 3,000 miles
My second vehicle is a truly my toy, a 1995 Mazda Miata.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:00:46 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: did i see this rare bird?(kind of long)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
There are only 400 of those Northwest Off Road owns one, they were sold
as conversions. I have sppoted 1 only here in AZ
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 12:30:56 -0800
From: Scott Wilson 
Subject: did i see this rare bird?(kind of long)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
BCSTOY@aol.com wrote:
>
> There are only 400 of those Northwest Off Road owns one, they were sold
> as conversions. I have sppoted 1 only here in AZ
Really?! Only 400!  That's too bad, cool looking truck.  I've seen at
least 4 in my area.  One of them is owned by a student at San Jose St.
Univ!
Scott
- --
*****************************************************
Scott Wilson TLCA #5261
88 4Runner SR5 V6
Santa Clara, CA
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:26:12 -0800
From: Eric Johnson 
Subject: did i see this rare bird?(kind of long)
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 
Scott Wilson wrote:
> BCSTOY@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > There are only 400 of those Northwest Off Road owns one, they were sold
> > as conversions. I have sppoted 1 only here in AZ
>
> Really?! Only 400!  That's too bad, cool looking truck.  I've seen at
> least 4 in my area.  One of them is owned by a student at San Jose St.
> Univ!
What are you guys talking about? The NWOR rig is a '83 Trekker, I
believe... I thought the original poster was talking about 2-door
2nd-generations... There were a few pre-4Runner custom jobs, some with and
some without Toyota's blessing, but they all disappeared AFAIK in 1984 when
the 4Runner appeared.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 13:32:48 -0800
From: Scott Wilson 
Subject: did i see this rare bird?(kind of long)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Eric Johnson wrote:
>
> Scott Wilson wrote:
> > BCSTOY@aol.com wrote:
> > >
> > > There are only 400 of those Northwest Off Road owns one, they were sold
> > > as conversions. I have sppoted 1 only here in AZ
> >
> > Really?! Only 400!  That's too bad, cool looking truck.  I've seen at
> > least 4 in my area.  One of them is owned by a student at San Jose St.
> > Univ!
>
> What are you guys talking about? The NWOR rig is a '83 Trekker, I
> believe... I thought the original poster was talking about 2-door
> 2nd-generations...
I was talking about the 2nd generation 2-door.  I thought he was too,
but idunno?
Scott
- --
*****************************************************
Scott Wilson TLCA #5261
88 4Runner SR5 V6
Santa Clara, CA
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:42:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht 
Subject: did i see this rare bird?(kind of long)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Scott Wilson wrote:
> BCSTOY@aol.com wrote:
> >
> > There are only 400 of those Northwest Off Road owns one, they were sold
> > as conversions. I have sppoted 1 only here in AZ
>
> Really?! Only 400!  That's too bad, cool looking truck.  I've seen at
> least 4 in my area.  One of them is owned by a student at San Jose St.
> Univ!
The only one I'd ever seen was this ugly blue one around town.  Then I saw
the NWOR one in one of the 4x mag's.  It's a different beast all together.
The one I've seen before had this strange canopy thing that kinda 'swoops'
down about 6" on the side of the bed...kinda like a Subaru brat with a
canopy.  But it was walkthrough, had seats, and the owner touted it as an
'83 4Runner' when he put it up for sale.  Is this one some kinda
aftermarket conversion?
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:51:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht 
Subject: did i see this rare bird?(kind of long)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997, Scott Wilson wrote:
> > > Really?! Only 400!  That's too bad, cool looking truck.  I've seen at
> > > least 4 in my area.  One of them is owned by a student at San Jose St.
> > > Univ!
> >
> > What are you guys talking about? The NWOR rig is a '83 Trekker, I
> > believe... I thought the original poster was talking about 2-door
> > 2nd-generations...
>
> I was talking about the 2nd generation 2-door.  I thought he was too,
> but idunno?
I think instead of saying '1st gen' or '2nd gen', it'd make a lot more
sense if we just said what year it was.
Usually people to refer to the 1st generation as the '84-'89, second gen
90-96(?) and 3rd gen being the tacoma type.  But what about those '83 and
earlier 4Runners.  I've heard that toyota made them, along with other
aftermarket sources, but I'm just not sure.  Would you call that like a '0
generation' or something?
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 1997 09:06:56 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski" 
Subject: Digesters jinxed our 4Runne
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"  Subject:                              Time:  9:02 AM
 OFFICE MEMO         Digesters jinxed our 4Runner?         Date:  4/4/97
Hi guys,
My wife comes home last night and tells me her '91 4Runner has
no clutch......shifting is hard and the pedal soft. Ahhhh....I think.....
I remember reading something on the digest about a rubber hose
failing on these. I grab a flashlight, slid under the 4Runner and
take a look.
Yep......fluid on the slave and I see that the rubber hose near the
firewall is wet. The master was dry so I refilled it and did a
quick bleed on it. Looks like the hose has a slow weep but should
hold for a few days until I can replace it.
The hose is $20 at the dealer.
I'm glad someone had mentioned it several weeks ago as it was
a snap to diagnose. However, I can't help but wonder if maybe the
mention of it start my hose to leaking  ;-)
This list is great!
_____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski    '85 Toylet  (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk   (lost, but being rebuilt)
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club            TLCA #3243
_____________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:39:14 -0600
From: "Dean Hufstedler" 
Subject: Emissions Equipment
To: 
Does anyone out there know how to remove the smog/emission equipment from a
22R.  We did it on our old Ford but aren't sure what to disconnect on the
Toyota.  Also are there any negatives to this procedure besides legality?
I don't think they check emissions for stae inspections in Texas.  Any help
is greatly appreciated.
Josh Hufstedler
'84 X-tra Cab SR5
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 20:07:51 -0800
From: James Brink 
Subject: Emissions Equipment
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Dean Hufstedler wrote:
>
> Does anyone out there know how to remove the smog/emission equipment from a
> 22R.  We did it on our old Ford but aren't sure what to disconnect on the
> Toyota.  Also are there any negatives to this procedure besides legality?
> I don't think they check emissions for stae inspections in Texas.  Any help
> is greatly appreciated.
>
> Josh Hufstedler
> '84 X-tra Cab SR5
Not only is this illegal but you really won't accomplish much in the way
of  any performance gains without spending a lot of money on aftermarket
components. Newer vehicles are designed to operate more efficently with
emissions equipment as opposed to vehicles of the 60's and 70's.
- --
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
 Stock 4.10 gears
 Rear Lock-Right (TRD)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:03:14 -0600
From: Steve Capuano 
Subject: Emissions Equipment
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 09:39 PM 4/4/97 -0600, you wrote:
>Does anyone out there know how to remove the smog/emission equipment from a
>22R.  We did it on our old Ford but aren't sure what to disconnect on the
>Toyota.  Also are there any negatives to this procedure besides legality?
>I don't think they check emissions for stae inspections in Texas.  Any help
>is greatly appreciated.
>
>Josh Hufstedler
>'84 X-tra Cab SR5
>
WRONG...Texas is smoke testing, but all sepends on where the vehicle is
registered.  Houston, DFW, and El Paso? I think are the only areas smoke
testing.  So if you share the county with these cities you are SOL.
Steve Capuano
capuano@hypercon.com
NRA lifetime member
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:34:30 -0800
From: Frank Di Giovanni 
, shoalseeker@geocities.com
Subject: FJ45
To: Toyota 4X4 Mailing List 
Has anyone seen this rare bird(FJ45).
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 1997 13:10:45 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski" 
Subject: Gears
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"  Subject:                              Time:  1:14 PM
 OFFICE MEMO         Gears                                 Date:  4/4/97
Saw this for anyone interested......don't know the guy.
Anyone want a set of 5.71 gears for a Toyota 8 inch diff??
40.00 plus ship ups cod.
I'd keep them except I don't need that low of a gear.
They are in good shape if they were junk I would use em as an anchor or
something..
Sheldon
sheld123@flnet.com
_____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski    '85 Toylet  (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club            TLCA #3243
_____________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:11:08 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: Haynes manuals
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Why do you want to bother with Haynes manuals just buy the factory one it
has better information on how to test all the components and they are about
$60.00 another good source is Mitchell manuals but these are more for
people making a living on this excellent line of work.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:38:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht 
Subject: Haynes manuals
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Fri, 4 Apr 1997 BCSTOY@aol.com wrote:
> Why do you want to bother with Haynes manuals just buy the factory one it
> has better information on how to test all the components and they are about
They are better, but they are also aimed at professional mechanic's that
have access to all those SST's.  The Haynes are aimed at normal people,
but they just aren't very complete or good compared to the factory manual.
So I'd say get both manuals.  For most of us, it's the best
compromise...even if it is the most expenisive.  IMHO, get the Haynes
first, and wait until you can afford the toyota one.  In the meantime, you
can probably just get the dealer to let you look at their's, and make
copies.  I've done all kinds of stuff to my truck only using the Haynes.
In fact, we've only had the toyota manual since christmas.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:27:39 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: Head gasket
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
If you saw traces of coolant between both cylinders I think is time that you
replace
the head gasket. If this is true the temperature gauge may be running higher
and
you should experience some coolant loss. The bolts for pistons 2 and 3 get
corroded and lose grip on the head this is what causes gasket failure in this
area.
For the oil leak, next time clean that area of the head gasket that joins the
timing
cover and apply grey silicone to it on both sides and set the 12mm bolt under
the
distributor shaft.
Another area to be concerned with is the area around the tensioner, the
square
water passage close to it tends to leak, so is usually a good idea to empty
the
water from there by rocking the truck or with paper towels and when putting
the
time cover back use silicone on the long 12mm bolt that's the one that
prevents
the water passage from dropping water right into the oil pan.
If you decide to do the gasket make sure you clean the treads for the head
bolt
and if head bolts for cylinders 2 and 3 are rusted in the treads replace
them!
Hope these tips help.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:26:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew W. Koenig" 
Subject: helloooooo
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
also when i run the beaches up here, should follow the old rule of letting
out the air, and to what level dost thou recommend?
Wind The Frog !!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:39:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Geiger 
Subject: helloooooo
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> also when i run the beaches up here, should follow the old rule of letting
> out the air, and to what level dost thou recommend?
> Wind The Frog !!!
The larger the tire the lower you can go. I found when running 33's I can
get down to 9 lbs but when I was running 31's I would use about 12 lbs.
the wider the rim the more air you need to keep the tire on the rim. At
these low pressure you can't make quick turns or give it lots of gas in a
turn to spin the tires, nut for climbing dunes low is the way to go. I
allays carry a low pressure gauge (0-20 lbs) that I got at k-mart for $5.
normal gauges can't read that low with any accuracy. I use a valve stem
remover to remove the core because I hate to wait for the air to come out.
Christopher A. Geiger             Voice 805-893-4044
Technical Operations Manager      Fax   805-893-8758
UCSB MicroComputer Laboratory     http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 20:28:00 -0500
From: jdehaven@shentel.net
Subject: Intermittent Wipers
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have a 95 Tacoma that does not have intermittent wipers. Has anyone made the
change to intermittent if so, was it expensive? If I make the change I am going
to use Toyota parts so it looks stock. My biggest concern is the wiring harness.
Is the connection the same? The Toyota dealership told me it would be around
$150 for parts but they did not know what was involved in the change because
they have never changed one over. Thanks for any help anyone might have.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:39:56 MST7MDT
From: "Alan Anderson" 
Subject: lots'o'stuff!
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>From: "Larry D Walls" 
>Subject: aussie spring's
>To: "Toy4x4" 
>
>Alan,
>I've got a 1980 Hilux 4x4 (Japanese model) and I keep the stock
>shackles,
>and just installed a 3" Ranco lift (new springs) on the truck.
>Everyone's
>say's there's a difference in US and Aussie springs, but most
>everything
>I've installed on my Hilux is made for US Toyota's and it all fit's.
>As far
>as I know the Aussie & Japanese models are the same except for
>engine's, so
>I would check to see if US springs would work.
>
>Larry D Walls  Austin, TX
>
snip>
I was wanting to know if the OME springs would fit on an American
Toyota pickup? i was thinking that they would be the thing to get for
the kind of rock crawling that I do.... then I was told that they
didn't make them for American toy's so I wanted to get the spring
HANGERS and build my own SHACKLES that I could use to fit the OME
springs onto my toy with..... I was also going to try to find out
what kind of job it would be to put a pair of dana 60's under the
little monster? How many banana's?.......( I allready have a small block
 chevy, nv4500, and double marlin's,......) is it worth the effort for the
 strength that I will get/improve ?
 I was also wondering what the going price on an '85 toy 22rec
4 popper is? (179,000mi. rebuild @ 145k, polished
head) Is it a fair trade for a Centerforce clutch (for the chevy)
a new slave cyl., AND a spair pair of 3rd members w/lockrites and
5:10 gears? (I clean a motor out of the garage for more GOODIES!)
please write back to both the list and my E-mail OK?
thanx,
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:56:14 -0500
From: john skaggs 
Subject: Mud Tires Needed
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Hey guys,
I know that there is someone on this list that has some 31x10.50r15 mud tires
in their garage that are just taking up space, you know, the ones that you took
off when you upgraded to 33's or 35's, and your wife is always nagging
you to get rid of them, well I'd be willing to buy them from you.  I live in
Ohio and am in need of some cheap mud tires (can't find a good excuse for the
wife so that I can get new ones).  So if you want to get rid of them old tires
that are just taking up space, write me.
John
TLCA # waiting
John.Skaggs@cle.ab.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 23:30:06 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: Off Road Novices
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
If a person does not have experience 4wheeling definitely he should not try
it alone.
I have a story to tell.
 We went into the desert my friend bought an old 81 nissan extracab
with a salvage title (against my advice) when we put the truck in 4wd
the gear ratio on the axles was diffent but it was too late so we just keep
driving
and you could see the back tires dragging and peeling off (to make matters
worse
the tires were used and prepped but were wrangler) by the time we reached
the high sierra close to Prescott we took a break and were ready to go and
the
truck did not want to move, the shaft came off it was held by one bolt only!
So I had to fix it right there use some spare bolts and rotate the tires
because
the back tires were really bold like tubes by 7:00 pm we were at I-17 he
drove
back to town at 5 mph.
After that he quit 4wheeling.
So moral of the story if you have no experience don't go alone and learn more
about the mechanics of the vehicle you drive. Do a visual inspection before
taking the trail and after leaving the trail. And just becuse the vehicle is
new
does not mean it cannot brea down.
Ah! and do not imitate the experts be cautious !
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 11:07:07 -0800
From: Scott Wilson 
Subject: Old Messages
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jonathan Albrecht wrote:
> Hey did anybody else get a few old mesages from march 17th today?
> Weird...
I've noticed that too, though I didn't get any today.  It seems the
server freeks out sometimes and re-sends old posts, though it doesn't
seem to go to all the same people. Go figure!!
Scott
- --
Scott A. Wilson            __o          __o          __o         __o
Santa Clara, CA          _'\<,_       _'\<,_       _'\<,_      _'\<,_
swilson@pacbell.net     (_)' (_)     (_)' (_)     (_)' (_)    (_)' (_)
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 17:55:02 -0800
From: Locke Christman 
Subject: Old Toy gears
To: "'ej@off-road.com'" 
Hi Eric,
I was just looking at your gear section on the 4-Runner page
(http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/4_axles.html).
First of all:  Very nice work!
I just have one footnote and then a question:
This may be common knowledge, but someone told me recently that after
having tore apart many Toyota axles, most '79 and '80 4x4's (20R
engines) had 4.375 gears.  For some reason I always assumed that my '80
had 4.10's, so I checked it out against your chart and sure enough,
4.375's (axle code G102).  It may be worth a footnote or highlight on
your page.
My question is:  you indicate that most '81's had 3.90 gears.  Is this
really so?  Why did they do that?  I guess they thought better of it by
'82!  I guess this was a rhetorical question, I was just surprised!
Seems like a good thing to keep in mind when considering the purchase of
an old Toy.
Locke
Locke Christman
FEI Company
Hillsboro, OR
lac@feico.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:31:56 -0700
From: KIBO GROUP ARCHITECTURE 
Subject: PCV VALVE??
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
I have recently purchased a '83 4x4 PU, it has been very
carefully maintained by the previous owner. Engine is a 22r
It was a California emissions beast
but it appears that most of the emissions gear has been
removed (Montana has no emissions testing).
Last weekend I replaced a leaky valve cover gasket. In the process
I noticed that there is no PCV valve in either hose coming
out of the top of the valve cover. According to my Haynes Manual
there should be a PCV valve in one of these hoses. HELP???
Am I reading my manual wrong? Could it be that the former
owner removed the PCV Valve? If I replace the valve what performance
changes can I affect??
PS-- my camper shell door openers are shot and I am tired of getting hit in the
head with the door. Has anyone tried the rancho openers?  Are they lifetime
guaranteed or are they just a gimicky coolio thingy?
Thanks,
Jeff Crouch
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 97 09:06:17 PST
From: barney@flowpoint.com (Barney McNamara)
Subject: shifter seat and bushing
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Frank wrote:
>Have you thought about replacing the shifter seat and bushing.
>I had similar problems with my '85 5spd p.u. and my 90 V6 4Runner.
>I pulled the shift lever retainer (4 bolts) and pulled the shifter seat
>and replaced the old with new. The old shifter seat was all but gone.
>New parts at the dealer were about $12 bucks for seat and bushing.
My problem is sloppy transmission shift lever action. The lever moves side
to side when I shift. I've had interference between the trans lever and the
xfer case lever. It's so bad that when I shift quickly, I can knock the xfer
case out of 4 wheel low by banging it with the trans lever. I have already
bent the xfer lever once for more clearance, but last time I was out, it
happened again. (I have no problem finding gears in normal operation, just
acts sloppy.)
Is changing the shifter seat and bushing a common thing?
Can it help reduce slop?
______________________________________________________________
Barney McNamara              83 Toyota Short Bed
( barney@flowpoint.com )     stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
Santa Cruz, Ca.              8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 09:37:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Geiger 
Subject: shifter seat and bushing
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> My problem is sloppy transmission shift lever action. The lever moves side
> to side when I shift. I've had interference between the trans lever and the
> xfer case lever. It's so bad that when I shift quickly, I can knock the xfer
> case out of 4 wheel low by banging it with the trans lever. I have already
> bent the xfer lever once for more clearance, but last time I was out, it
> happened again. (I have no problem finding gears in normal operation, just
> acts sloppy.)
I have seen this problem in a samurai and the problem was any easy fix
there is a pin just under the shifter that needes to be replaced. Don't
have the part number but I am sure that a trip to the local toyota dealer
will have you on your way in no time.
Chris Geiger http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:56:28 -0500 (EST)
From: SKeene8194@aol.com
Subject: shifter seat and bushing
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-04-04 13:43:35 EST, you write:
<< I can knock the xfer case out of 4 wheel low by banging it with the trans
lever. >>
My 81 trans recenly rebuilt does the same thing.  I was told by other Toyota
drivers on the trail that it is a design problem.  You'll just have to learn
to shift
the main stick around the  Xfer stick.  This is probably why they designed so
much play into the  main stick.
Steve Keene
skeene8194@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:00:06 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: Shifts hard
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
If he replaced the clutch, here are the things that could be wrong:
1) If the fingers holding the clutch fork are broken or the fork comes off it
can cause hard shift.
2) If when he replace the clutch had some problems getting the tranny up
(heavy)
he may have the center disc in the clutch bent. (in which case you will need
to change the disc again!
3) Or the most common case is that your clutch master cylinder or the slave
cylinder have developed a leak and do not hold pressure anymore.
So, review the problem in the following order (3), (1), and (2).
Good luck!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:12:48 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Smittybilt Roll Cage
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
SKeene8194@aol.com wrote:
 "Since we're on the subject of Smittybilt
 quality  about nerf bars, I would like to
 bring up a decision I need to make on an
 in cab roll cage.
 "I can get a Smittybilt cage for about $80.
 Why are other manufacturers roll cages
 closer to $200?  In catalog pictures they
 look like the same basic design. I Often
 have children in the truck with me. Is
 there a Quality/Safety difference here
 that matches the price difference?
 "...there is a disclaimer on the back of
 the Smittybilt catalog that says their
 products are for appearence only, not for
 safety. But I think all the catalogs say
 that anyway don't they."
The Smitty cage is a bolt-in affair; 4 pieces that go in fairly quickly and
easily. Of course, if you're like me, you tweak and trick things out a
little, doubling your install time. The plates mount over the body mount
bolts; in the rear the body mount bolts go thru the mounting plates, in the
front they don't. In each corner you drill an additional 3 holes. Up top,
.125" wall steel collars 4" long join the pieces with a 1/2" bolt on each
end. It's a fairly nice piece.
Downey sells the Smittybilt cage for about $150, I believe, and I think I
remember seeing NWOR sell it for $230, so $80 is a great price. 4 wheel
drive products are like a commodity; what you see one place might be double
someplace else. I don't know anyone else selling a Toy cage.
When installing the cage, follow the directions loosely. Substitute these
directions at times:
1. Mount the front mounting plates over the body mounts, but move the
plates as far outboard as possible. Make sure you will still be able to
roll the windows up and down.
2. Before you drill any holes anywhere, test-fit the entire cage and mark
bolt hole locations with a paint pen. It really helps to have a jig to make
the holes straight thru the tubing.
3. Test-fit the cage often. Don't drill all the holes in the tubing before
you start installation. It is better to fit and drill one section at a
time.
Roll cages are a last line of defense in times of impact and rollover. I
know lots of people that have rolled their Toys (not me), and none of them
have cages. They all walked away. However, a cage provides additional peace
of mind for me, at least. There is some visual obstruction at your
A-pillars and at the top of the windshield.
All the safety manus have to have that disclaimer on their products, to
stave off lawsuits from weirdo candy-asses that can neither take care of
themselves, nor responsibility for their actions.
Good luck,
 - Nick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:41:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht 
Subject: Subject: 22RE missing?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 17 Mar 1997 grandall@tmac.com wrote:
>      I had a similar problem with my '85 22RE (120Kmi), except the "Check
>      Engine" light would come on for a few seconds, the engine would miss,
Hey did anybody else get a few old mesages from march 17th today?
Weird...
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 1997 10:37:50 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski" 
Subject: Suspension Travel
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"  Subject:                              Time:  8:29 AM
 OFFICE MEMO         Suspension Travel                     Date:  4/4/97
Tony Bartlett  wrote:
snip
>I will let everyone know what type of answer I get from National
>Springs.  I will be contacting them next week on the correct procedures
>to follow to have them build me some custom springs.  If clearances on
>my truck work (1985 x-cab) I plan on haveing about 7 inches of droop and
>compression.  I do not no the clearance problems for the front end (any
>help Jack or Jay)  I plan on having the front center bolt 2 inches
>forward with about 5 inches over stock lift.
I have moved my axle forward one inch and with my NWOR springs
had very little fender rubbing on the front fenders. However, I could
never set the NWOR springs on the bump stops. With the springs I
recently swapped in I can regularly set the axle on the stops and
find I have pretty severe rubbing problems again.
>Known item that need attention.  Drag link will need to be shortend and
Yes, you will have to run an aftermarket dropped draglink, both to
shorten the length and to clear the u-bolts under droop. You will
also need to run a limit strap on the driver side to keep the draglink
from going into bind. I run one now with the axle moved only one
inch forward. With the two inch move, you will have to limit droop
even more. There is no way you will get all the droop you are planning
with the draglink setup you have. The draglink will go into bind and run
a high risk of breaking the steering arm.
>I will have to find something for a torque rod (some type of collapsible
>rod using splines or machined fit inner&outer rod.)
If you plan on having the rod splined so that it moves, you will
essentially defeat its purpose. This rod needs to be of a fixed
length to control braking and axle wrap. A better solution is
to remove it when on the trail. However, doing so requires you
to watch for axle roll with soft springs that may pull your
driveshaft apart.
Speaking of driveshafts.......you will need to do something to limit
droop to keep your driveshaft from pulling apart and possibly to
keep it from binding. Depends if you run a CV or not, or a Marlin.
There was some discussion earlier in the week on this.
>I will post my findings once I talk with National.  If anyone could come
>up with any questions that I might ask please let me know.
Spring rate?
Length as compared to stock (need it for droop)?
Number of leaves?
Interleaf additions (shims, teflon, etc.)?
Military wrap?
Progressive?
Guarantee (life, lift, rate, etc.)?
Price (ouch)?
>Jack or Jay, did either one of you talk with Don Carter (I think) in
>Moab.  He had a blue 1985 truck with red scallops(sp).  I guess he has a
>National Spring lift.  I saw him down there but at the time I did not
>know about his suspension.  His truck is in the June 1996 4Wheel and
>Sport Utility.
Nope, didn't see him........unfortunately.
_____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski    '85 Toylet  (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk  (lost, but being rebuilt)
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club            TLCA #3243
_____________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:12:54 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: tire size=rpm
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
val  wrote:
 "i'm about ot install 33x9.5x15 tires on
 my 80 4x4 sb pick up with 20r engine 4.38
 gears 4 spd trans. this should give me
 3100 rpm on freeway at cruising speed.
 anyone know if this within toyota's normal
 cruise rpm. currently i'm doing 3900 at 70
 mph with 235x75x15 tires.also any
 recomendations on 3" lift kits."
Depends on what your freeway cruising speed is, but I think anywhere from
2900 to 3100 rpm is a good target to shoot for.
As for lift kits, I would recommend Downey or Rocky Mountain Off-Road.
Neither of these are cheap, like the $200 "complete" kits you see
advertised in some of the magazines, but are well-engineered and reasonably
soft and compliant so the truck is actually useful off-road. Ranchos are
really stiff; I have heard good things about Skyjacker lately, so they must
have gotten their act together, and I don't have much experience with other
brands. Shop wisely.
 - Nick
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:21:00 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #115
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
It was petersen's and it was not that long ago.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:29:38 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #115
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-04-04 16:04:23 EST, you write:
>
>  It was petersen's and it was not that long ago.
>
Could you guys please let us know what you are refering to?
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 14:37:57 -0800
From: Locke Christman 
Subject: Trail Blazers and Trekkers (was "rare bird")
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 
>Eric Johnson Wrote:
>
>What are you guys talking about? The NWOR rig is a '83 Trekker, I
>believe...
>-- ej@blarg.net
Actually the NWOR rig is an '83 Trail Blazer.  I am not sure who
customized these, but as someone mentioned earlier on the list, it was
featured recently in one of the 4x4 magazines.  According to the article
it could be purchased as a dealer option.
The Trekker is something else.  It was made by Winnebago (sp?).  I just
looked at an '81 for sale in the Portland, OR area.  Apparently they
bought an SR5 cab chassis (no bed) and added an entire fiberglass unit
to the back.  It is molded to look like the Toyota bed, but it is one
piece fiberglass.  I think (but not sure) that the Trail Blazer used the
stock bed, somehow attached it to the cab, and added a shell.  The guy
selling the Trekker said that Winnebago only made something like 25 '81
Trekkers (I guess Japanese sport utes just were not the rage that they
are now).
The guy found this Trekker in a wrecking yard, frame and body only (less
front fenders and doors), with 4 inches of water in it.  It now is
partially restored with an '84 22R, an '83 five speed, a 3 inch Rancho
(stiff) lift, and 33's.  Reverse and 5th gears have slipped on the shaft
but he says that he will fix it (isn't there a bearing problem in those
trannys as well?).  He is asking $2550 for it.  Any opinions on whether
this a good buy or not?
Locke
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:35:24 -0800
From: Locke Christman 
Subject: Trail Blazers and Trekkers 2 (was "rare bird")
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 
Eric Johnson wrote:
>There were a few pre-4Runner custom jobs, some with and
>some without Toyota's blessing, but they all disappeared AFAIK in 1984 when
>the 4Runner appeared.
>--
>-- ej@blarg.net
I recently looked at an '81 Trekker for sale.  The guy also said that he
has an '84 Trail Blazer.....but I have not seen it.
Locke
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 22:35:42 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: truck pruchase
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
With all the respect take your mechanic advice with a grain of salt.
I have not had a toy with a V6 but I know is not  very powerful compared
with some other ones but that does not mean is not a reliable mill.
There is the known complaint about some toys having a blown head gasket,
but toyota is fixing those for free. Because of this, some people are taking
the trucks for this repair even if the truck shows no signs of the problem.
Just make sure that you buy a clean used truck and the more stock the better.
Don't be biased by the truck looks in terms of tires and rims, remember
bigger tires mean that the engine would have to work harder and may have
seen ocasional off-roading.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:24:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Matthew W. Koenig" 
Subject: UM OK
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
so i asked if the droppings under my runner and the guy upstairs p/u were
the signs of impending head gasket failure.  anyone got a response
matt
to refresh
bright yellow and reddish brown spots
Wind The Frog !!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 13:04:07 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Valve tapping
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I am about to have to adjust the valves on my 22RE.  I was wondering if any
of you have done this, and what is involved.  Also, I had it done in '95.
 How often will they need to be adjusted?
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:21:49 -0800
From: Eric Johnson 
Subject: Valve tapping
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 
DRM033@aol.com wrote:
> I am about to have to adjust the valves on my 22RE.  I was wondering if
any
> of you have done this, and what is involved.  Also, I had it done in '95.
>  How often will they need to be adjusted?
I've had three vehicles with a 2xRx series engines. All you need to adjust
the valves is some feeler gauges, wrenches, a screwdriver (I think) and
whatever tools it takes to get the valve cover off. I've never had to
adjust mine; I've pulled the covers off and they've always been right on
spec. YMMV. I've heard that one should avoid the temptation to run the
clearances tighter than spec to reduce noise, though I cannot remember why.
:)
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 18:21:46 -0800
From: James Brink 
Subject: Valve tapping
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Eric Johnson wrote:
>
> DRM033@aol.com wrote:
> > I am about to have to adjust the valves on my 22RE.  I was wondering if
> any
> > of you have done this, and what is involved.  Also, I had it done in '95.
> >  How often will they need to be adjusted?
>
> I've had three vehicles with a 2xRx series engines. All you need to adjust
> the valves is some feeler gauges, wrenches, a screwdriver (I think) and
> whatever tools it takes to get the valve cover off. I've never had to
> adjust mine; I've pulled the covers off and they've always been right on
> spec. YMMV. I've heard that one should avoid the temptation to run the
> clearances tighter than spec to reduce noise, though I cannot remember why.
> :)
>
> --
> -- ej@blarg.net
Valve adjustments should be carried out every 30K miles with the motor
hot. Set the crankshaft so that the timing mark is at TDC and the rocker
arms on intake/exhaust cyl. #1 are loose. Adjust valves in the following
sequence: intake/exhaust #1, intake #2, exhaust #3. Rotate the engine
with a 19mm socket on the crankshaft pulley nut 360 degrees (make sure
the key is off!) until the timing mark is again at TDC and the rockers
for # 4 cyl are loose and adjust the following valves: cyl. #'s 3,4,
intake and 2,4 exhaust. Turn the screw-type adjusters until there is a
slight drag on the feeler gauge and tighnten the locknut (12mm) while
preventing the adjuster screw from turning. It may take a few tries to
get it right. DO NOT adjust an R series motor's valve for quiet
operation! These motors run best and last longer with a little extra
(note: little) extra clearance.
- --
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
 Stock 4.10 gears
 Rear Lock-Right (TRD)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:38:55 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: WartHog
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I think that this web site was not designed to outdo each other in computer
jargon.
We need to limit ourselves to enrich our knowledge on toyota trucks.
Let us leave all that $%@# at the office. Sure I also have enough of it at
work.
That's one reasong I keep wrenching and 4wheeling with my toys.
 That's my 2 cents.
Ornelas, Ph.D.
Senior Econometrician, American Express.
------------------------------
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End of Toy4x4 Digest
******************************