Toy4x4 Digest          Wed, 26 Mar 97 00:30:03 (HST)  Volume 1 : Issue 110
 Today's Topics:
 32" tires
 anone have a red truck?
 correction: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
 crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires (5 msgs)
 Detroit Locker (3 msgs)
 Differential Slop (2 msgs)
 Electrical Help (5 msgs)
 Front torque rod
 Head gasket... (4 msgs)
 How low do you go? (3 msgs)
 lateral traction bars..ladder bars.
 More Muffler Sounds (2 msgs)
 non-stock exhaust
 on-board air 82 toy 4x4 parts PLEASE HELP
 on board air/blue book prices
 Rough Idle.... (2 msgs)
 special order Taco; tire question
 Test of realtime mode
 Timing chain (2 msgs)
 Tow Strap Usage
 Used p/u need some advice (2 msgs)
 wood is good! (11 msgs)
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:44:07 -0500
 From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles"  Subject: 32" tires
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Greg S. Francis wrote:>>>>         And I'd like to repost the question about 32's on stock alloy rims,>>> and whether they will rub, and if so where and how bad.  This would be on a>>> 4Runner.>>>>What I hear is that you can fit a 32" fine.  I plan to get some 32">>mud-terrains for my 88 'Runner as soon as I can afford them, and they'll>>have to go on my stock SR5 rims, as least for now.  I have a 2" lift,>>and after talking with people, I expect no rubbing, even when they're>>crammed up in the wheel well.  With no lift you might get minimal>>rubbing, but we're talking extreme articulation.  With 33" no questions,>>they will rub.>>>>Obviously I'm not talking from experience here.  This is just what I've>>heard from the experienced people.>>>>Scott>>--> I believe that the SR5 rims are 7"?  I have aftermarket 15x7s and the> people who sold me my tires *strongly* advised agianst 32x11.5s claiming> that the sidewall would roll and weaken and that the tread would wear> prematurely.  They even said something about voiding the tire warrenty, but> that may have been hot air.  Was I lied to?> -Greg>> Greg S. Francis> University of Texas @ Austin> School of Architecture> gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
 Greg,
 When I bought my truck, the previous owner had crammed 31" tires
 on the factory 6" rims. The sidewall roll was very bad, downright
 dangerous, in fact. Check the manufacturer's spec's on the tires you
 intend to buy, they will tell you what rim sizes they can be put on.
 And yes, if you ignore their "recommendations", they will void the
 warranty.
 Butch Stiles
 rokitman@erols.com
 Just as it says "Rocket Man"
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 01:15:55 -0600
 From: Rob Guy  Subject: anone have a red truck?
 To: toy4x4  I've got a red 93 4Runner and the paint has faded on the top surfaces
 (hood and roof), not the sides.  Does anyone else with a red truck have
 this prob?  I spoke to Toyota about this and, of course, they said it
 was because i didn't polish the truck regularly.  WRONG, I take better
 care of my truck than the average person and I'm sure this is prolly a
 factory problem.  The warranty has run out by about 6 months, but is
 there anyway I can have Toyota fix this.  BTW, road salt is not a
 problem around here.
 Thanks,
 http://www.tecinfo.com/~luv2drag/
 Rob Guy
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:00:04 -0800
 From: Eric Johnson  Subject: correction: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
 To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"  In a fit of stupidity, I wrote:> 89's usually came with a 2.28:1 t-case if they had a manual tranny.> The 2.57 T-case is only on automatics, AFAIK.> I assume you have the R150F tranny?
 I was wrong. a 2.556 transfer case was indeed available with the R150F. The
 W56 usually had a 2.28 transfer case, though some 4runners had a R150F with
 a 2.28 low... The A340H T-case has the 2.659:1 low range.
 - --
 - -- ej@blarg.net
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:43:47 -0800
 From: Eric Johnson  Subject: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
 To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"  Jonathan Albrecht wrote:>>> Here's another question for all the gear heads our there.  It'll soon>>> be time to buy new tires.  I want to put 31x10.50 BFG Mud Terrains on>>> my 89 V6.  However, I can't afford to swap the 4.10 gears to 4.56 at>>> this time.  I know that I'll lose power (about 8%), but I can live>>> with that.  My first 4x4 was a Toyota 4 Cylinder and I didn't have a>>> big problem with the "lack" of power.>>>>> Are you sure you have 4.10's, my 4Runner came with 225 tires , v6 and>> 4.30's . I found the 31" tires to work OK with those gears but the 4.56>> would be better for those tires.>> Do you have an auto?>> As best I can remember, this is what the toyota brochure in '93 said:>> 4cyl manual:         4.10:1> 4cyl auto:           ~4.3:1> v6 manual:           4.10:1> v6 manual 31" tires: 4.56:1> v6 auto p225 tires   ~4.3:1 (I think)> v6 auto 31" tires:   4.88:1 (not compatible with aftermarket gear sets> btw)>> This applied for both 4Runners and p/u's..  Easiest way though (instead of> messing with id codes and stuff) is just to jack up the rear end,
 [snip]
 ...but if you do want to mess with the codes (which IMHO is far easier
 than jacking up the truck) a code list is at:
 http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/4_axles.html
 - --
 - -- ej@blarg.net
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:59:09 -0800
 From: Eric Johnson  Subject: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
 To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"  David Booth wrote:
 [snip]> My big concern is losing the ability to rock crawl.  I've often heard> this ability measured as a "Crawl Ratio", which is the product of the> T-Case ratio (2.57),
 89's usually came with a 2.28:1 t-case if they had a manual tranny.
 The 2.57 T-case is only on automatics, AFAIK.
 I assume you have the R150F tranny?>the Axle ratio (4.10), and first gear (3.83).> With the V6 gearing and the 4.10 axles, the crawl ratio is 40.4.  With
 If your t-case is 2.28, you're looking at 35.8.> 4.56s it is 44.9 and with 4.88 it is 48.0.  Obviously 4.56 and 4.88> gears give a better crawl ratio.> Now, since the crawl ratio is unaffected by the tire size, I'm not> sure how the larger tires will affect my ability to crawl up and down> rocky terrain.  Logic tells me that it will be an adverse effect.
 You're right, as far as usable torque is concerned. What we're
 really going after is high RPMs per inch, which DOES take into
 account tire size. If it takes 35.8 revolutions of the motor to turn
 the tires one turn, then each inch of ground speed requires
 35.8/(28*pi) =  .406 revs/inch, but with 30.5" tires, its
 .373 revs per inch.
 - --
 - -- ej@blarg.net
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:30:22 -8 GMT
 From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"  Subject: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 From: Jonathan Albrecht 
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm  Allright Scott, now when you want to try some nice big hill cimbs
 you give me a call ok?  :)


Paul

 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:35:14 -0800
 From: Scott Wilson  Subject: Detroit Locker
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> =A0Allright Scott, now when you want to try some nice big hill cimbs yo=
 u> give me a call ok?=A0 :)
 You bet.  Thanks,
 Scott
 - --=20
 *****************************************************
 Scott Wilson TLCA #5261
 88 4Runner SR5 V6
 Santa Clara, CA
 http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
 ------------------------------
 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:49:13 -0500
 From: s0baker@usuhsb.usuhs.mil
 Subject: Differential Slop
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 I have a question concerning how much the drive shaft is supposed to be
 able to rotate when you attempt to turn it by hand.
 My 87 4Runner seems a little sloppy in that reguard.  When I twist it,
 it rotates a little before it stops.  All the bolts are tight.  Does
 this mean I have excessive wear on the ring and pinion?  The front is
 even worse than the rear.  Could that be caused by driving in 4 wheel drive
 on dry pavement?  I had to do that a year ago for about 15 miles when
 my wretched automatic hubs would not disengage (I now have Warn Manual hubs)
 Thanks
 Troy Baker
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 13:00:27 -0800 (PST)
 From: Jonathan Albrecht  Subject: Differential Slop
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 s0baker@usuhsb.usuhs.mil wrote:> it rotates a little before it stops.  All the bolts are tight.  Does> this mean I have excessive wear on the ring and pinion?  The front is> even worse than the rear.
 The front has a lot more things that add to slop, like 4 cv joints, and
 two hubs.  It's normal for it to have a bit of play.> Could that be caused by driving in 4 wheel drive> on dry pavement?
 Could be, but 15 miles probably isn't going to do too much damage.> I had to do that a year ago for about 15 miles when> my wretched automatic hubs would not disengage (I now have Warn Manual hubs)> Thanks
 Why couldn't you just shift the t-case into 2wd?
 Jonathan Albrecht
 albr9619@uidaho.edu
 http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:08:42 +0500
 From: Mike  Subject: Electrical Help
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I wrote in a couple days ago that all my gauges (and blower motor)
 had stopped working. I can't figure out what's wrong. The shop manual says
 it must be the meter fuse. All my fuses look good but can anyone tell me
 which fuse is the meter fuse on an '83 PickUp. I no longer have the owner's
 manual. Does anyone know if the circuit breaker could have gone bad? I'm
 starting to get desperate.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 19:11:31 -0800 (PST)
 From: Chris Geiger  Subject: Electrical Help
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Unless someone on the list has had this problem and knows the answer it's
 not going to be easy to guess where the problem is. You will need the
 FACTORY manule with a wiring diagram. You will need to check all of the
 items between the battery and the gauges. This type of problem is usually
 easy to fix but hard to find. If you don't have wiring diagram and know
 how to use a volt meter you can only guess where the problem is.
 Chris Geiger http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Mike wrote:>         I wrote in a couple days ago that all my gauges (and blower motor)> had stopped working. I can't figure out what's wrong. The shop manual says> it must be the meter fuse. All my fuses look good but can anyone tell me> which fuse is the meter fuse on an '83 PickUp. I no longer have the owner's> manual. Does anyone know if the circuit breaker could have gone bad? I'm> starting to get desperate.>>> Christopher A. Geiger             Voice 805-893-4044
 Technical Operations Manager      Fax   805-893-8758
 UCSB MicroComputer Laboratory     http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/index.html
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:31:24 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: Electrical Help
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 using your VOM put one lead to ground and start going down the line till you
 lose your hot leg.
 Also check all fuses and power to the fuse blocks.  The blower is going to
 draw more than the dash lighting and gauges will.
 G'Luck
 Steve C.
 At 07:11 PM 3/25/97 -0800, you wrote:>>Unless someone on the list has had this problem and knows the answer it's>not going to be easy to guess where the problem is. You will need the>FACTORY manule with a wiring diagram. You will need to check all of the>items between the battery and the gauges. This type of problem is usually>easy to fix but hard to find. If you don't have wiring diagram and know>how to use a volt meter you can only guess where the problem is.>>Chris Geiger http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html>>>On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Mike wrote:>>>         I wrote in a couple days ago that all my gauges (and blower motor)>> had stopped working. I can't figure out what's wrong. The shop manual says>> it must be the meter fuse. All my fuses look good but can anyone tell me>> which fuse is the meter fuse on an '83 PickUp. I no longer have the owner's>> manual. Does anyone know if the circuit breaker could have gone bad? I'm>> starting to get desperate.>>>>>>>>Christopher A. Geiger             Voice 805-893-4044>Technical Operations Manager      Fax   805-893-8758>UCSB MicroComputer Laboratory     http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/index.html>>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:34:37 -0800
 From: Eric Johnson  Subject: Electrical Help
 To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"  On Tuesday, March 25, 1997 8:08 AM, Mike[SMTP:kricker@vt.edu] wrote:>         I wrote in a couple days ago that all my gauges (and blower
 motor)> had stopped working. I can't figure out what's wrong. The shop manual
 says> it must be the meter fuse. All my fuses look good but can anyone tell me> which fuse is the meter fuse on an '83 PickUp. I no longer have the
 owner's> manual. Does anyone know if the circuit breaker could have gone bad? I'm> starting to get desperate.
 Well, test each fuse, or run a key along each fuse holder until the meter
 lights light up. I had this problem in a 76 celica in the middle of the
 night on a cross-country road trip once. All the fuses looked fine, but one
 was busted, and the key trick figured it out.
 - --
 - - ej@blarg.net
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 02:02:56 -0500
 From: WartHog  Subject: Electrical Help
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Mike wrote:>>         I wrote in a couple days ago that all my gauges (and blower motor)> had stopped working. I can't figure out what's wrong.> This IS just a guess:
 Most Guage circuits use a voltage regulator or volt reducer of some
 sort. This reduced voltage could be picked up from a leg of the blower
 motor speed control.
 IF it is, this is where I would look for a fault. ( I have seen some odd
 stuff in Asian electricals)
 Like I said, Just a guess.
 Mark
 rheschel@bright.net
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:12:51 -0700
 From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
 Subject: Front torque rod
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Alan Anderson  wrote:
 "...I have an '85 that i have a new rod
 for...wreckin' yard spcl.....the ninny
 that had the truck before me was runnig
 without it....I now know why... stock
 doesn't fit? ANY IDEAS?"
 Buy the Rancho or Conejo (are these parts one and the same?) adjustable
 unit. It runs about $60.
 - Nick
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 11:48:39 -0800
 From: ROB_MALONE@HP-PaloAlto-om4.om.hp.com
 Subject: Head gasket...
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Item Subject: cc:Mail Text
 Alright, I know there's been head-gasket-ad-nausium (sp?)discussion,
 BUT I'm going to add to it.  I walked out in my driveway one Sunday
 and noticed a pancake-sized pool of red liquid in my driveway under my
 9,500 mile-old 96 V6 4Runner.  Aack.  What a disappointment.  I acted
 conservatively and had it towed to Stevens Creek Toyota.  They called
 Monday and in a wow-how-surprising-I've-never-seen-this-before tone,
 the service rep told me I needed a new head gasket.  I hadn't done any
 other damage to my engine.  3 days later I had my 4Runner back.  The
 service rep PROMISED me I'd have no further problems with it.
 My question:  How sure should I be that I'll have no further head
 gasket problems.  I've driven another 9K miles with no problem, but
 I'm always wondering...
 rob_malone@hp.com
 You wrote:
 --------------------------------
 I know that it's been discussed to high heavens and back, but I really
 never paid attention.  I guess I never thought it would happen to me.
 I have a 1996 Toyota Tacoma 4WD with 19900 miles on it. The motor is a
 V-6 3.4 Liter model # 3VZ???? or something like that.  While changing
 my oil this weekend, I noticed the passenger side head gasket leaking
 oil.  I was scheduled to take it to the dealer on Wednesday, March 26,
 for some other warranty work (6th time back).  I guess they can add
 this to the list of things to fix.
 I realize through all the postings on the list that the head
 gasket problem is a very common problem among the V-6 engines that
 Toyota produces.  Has Toyota come up with a different solution than
 just replacing the head gasket?  I don't want to have to change the
 head gasket every 20,000 miles or so for as long as I own this hunk of
 junk.
 I criticize my vehicle like that for a reason.  Since about 2500
 miles, I've had nothing but problems.  One problem after the other and
 I'm growing very frustrated and tired of the service shop having my
 vehicle more than I do.  I'm starting to think that my truck was built
 by Yugo instead of Toyota. Don't know if I will ever buy another
 Toyota again or not.  You would think that for $20,000, a company
 could at least build a motor that won't leak oil.
 Another question that I have:  Has anybody experienced hoses on
 their motors in their Toyota turning crusty black on the outside?  It
 started about 3000 miles and it keeps getting worst. They are really
 soft like they are weakening.  They look like hoses off of a truck
 that's been driven for 10 years.
 Thanks for any info. in advance.
 Wil Eubank
 hosse@okway.okstate.edu
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 12:33:45 -0800 (PST)
 From: Jonathan Albrecht  Subject: Head gasket...
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 ROB_MALONE@HP-PaloAlto-om4.om.hp.com wrote:>      My question:  How sure should I be that I'll have no further head>      gasket problems.  I've driven another 9K miles with no problem, but>      I'm always wondering...> I know.  Trade my friend for his '86 4banger p/u.
 Jonathan Albrecht
 albr9619@uidaho.edu
 http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 15:30:00 -0600
 From: Galen Sinkey  Subject: Head gasket...
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 A coworker of mine bought a 96 T100 4X4 X-Cab SR5 V6 (5VZ-FE 3.4) last
 fall, and had to have his head gasket replaced last month at 12K miles.
 I have the same engine in my Tacoma 4X4 SR5 V6 and have had no problem so
 far (currently approx 15K miles).
 Apparently Toyota still suffers the head gasket dillemma with the new 3.4
 engine.  To some extent I feel the problem is overblown, in that it does
 not occur in the majority of the 3.0 and 3.4 V6s on the road.  (I would be
 interested in knowing an accurate percentage of engines affected...)
 However, I'm sure this is no comfort to those of you who have had the problem!
 - -- Galen Sinkey
 95.5 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 SR5 V6, 5 spd, 31s
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:02:18 -0800 (PST)
 From: Kevin Valentine  Subject: Head gasket...
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I think it must be a bigger problem than it seems from reading this list.
 Think of all the people who are not on the internet reading this list who
 have/are/or are going to have the problem occur!  I can not believe Toyota
 has not been taking some flack over this.  Why can't they get it right?
 I've got the '88 V6 and so far from what I've gathered I've got better
 odds than the newer rigs.  I hope so!  Makes me wonder if I'll ever buy a
 new Toyota???
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Galen Sinkey wrote:> A coworker of mine bought a 96 T100 4X4 X-Cab SR5 V6 (5VZ-FE 3.4) last> fall, and had to have his head gasket replaced last month at 12K miles.>> I have the same engine in my Tacoma 4X4 SR5 V6 and have had no problem so> far (currently approx 15K miles).>> Apparently Toyota still suffers the head gasket dillemma with the new 3.4> engine.  To some extent I feel the problem is overblown, in that it does> not occur in the majority of the 3.0 and 3.4 V6s on the road.  (I would be> interested in knowing an accurate percentage of engines affected...)> However, I'm sure this is no comfort to those of you who have had the problem!>> -- Galen Sinkey>    95.5 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 SR5 V6, 5 spd, 31s> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:45:14 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: How low do you go?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I have run around 25 in my stock 31x1050 and can fell the added friction.
 So is your fuel economy out the door?
 Steve C.
 At 09:23 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:>> How low do you people take your tires?>>I run 10 LBS in my 4runner tires. I have used this for years in tires from>31 - 33". It works great. I run the sand at pismo most every month. Check>out the pics on my web site. http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html>>Chris Geiger>>PS no sliding sideways with lo psi !>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:33:37 -0800 (PST)
 From: Chris Geiger  Subject: How low do you go?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>> I have run around 25 in my stock 31x1050 and can fell the added friction.> So is your fuel economy out the door?> Steve C.>> At 09:23 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:>>> How low do you people take your tires?>>>>I run 10 LBS in my 4runner tires. I have used this for years in tires from>>31 - 33". It works great. I run the sand at pismo most every month. Check>>out the pics on my web site. http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html
 At 10 PSI in the sand I get 6 MPG, at 30 PSI I get 15 city and 18 freeway.
 It goes up a little bit at 40 PSI but it is a ruff ride.
 Chris Geiger http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:58:44 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: How low do you go?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I know where you stand on that at high psi.  Tis why I run med psi.  The
 rear axle hops on this one rough road at about 75 mph.
 At 04:33 PM 3/25/97 -0800, you wrote:>>>> I have run around 25 in my stock 31x1050 and can fell the added friction.>> So is your fuel economy out the door?>> Steve C.>>>> At 09:23 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:>>>> How low do you people take your tires?>>>>>>I run 10 LBS in my 4runner tires. I have used this for years in tires from>>>31 - 33". It works great. I run the sand at pismo most every month. Check>>>out the pics on my web site. http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html>>At 10 PSI in the sand I get 6 MPG, at 30 PSI I get 15 city and 18 freeway.>It goes up a little bit at 40 PSI but it is a ruff ride.>>Chris Geiger http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:02:45 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: lateral traction bars..ladder bars.
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Looking at ProComps lateral trac bars I was curious do they eliminate the
 need for leaf springs?
 Don't flame me on this I really just dont know ;)
 Also, is this a good on road and offroad addon (read enhancement) or
 strictly offroad abuse only.
 ]
 Steve C.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:20:18 -0800 (PST)
 From: James W Tom  Subject: More Muffler Sounds
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Just to add more concerning what mufflers sound like...
 I used to work in a shop that did work only on domestic V8's and a few
 import rigs, and from my standpoint Flowmasters sound more like pebbles
 rattling around in a can WITH that funny "passing wind" sound (heh,heh).
 We had Perry Farrell's (of Jane's Addiction fame) Nova in once, and
 all he had was the GM Targetmaster motor with some Superturbos on it.
 After a switch to 2 1/2 tube and those new Aluminized Flowmasters
 (compared to the older black-painted steel ones), his car had that crisp
 "bark" and funny rattling sound.  The car did have a crossover pipe, but
 it was kinda loud.
 As for four cylinders, the do give "harsher" sound and a more deeper
 bellow on acceleration, but don't expect much of a "burble" when idling or
 "WAHHHHHHHHHH,WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH" when you really hammer your foot through
 the floor.  I guess its the compression, the overall smaller volume of
 gasses, and exhaust pulse of the four that makes it kinda unique to four
 cylinder applications.
 Happy gas passing!
 Jimmy Tom
 92 P/U
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:56:39 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: More Muffler Sounds
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 So is Perry ugly in real life to.  Dont misunderstand I like his newest band
 Porno for Pyros ( hit the sweet spot), I just think he got run over as a kid.
 Back on track...how bout V6's
 What brand gives the best bang for the  buck.  In your opinion.
 Steve C.
 At 04:20 PM 3/25/97 -0800, you wrote:>Just to add more concerning what mufflers sound like...>I used to work in a shop that did work only on domestic V8's and a few>import rigs, and from my standpoint Flowmasters sound more like pebbles>rattling around in a can WITH that funny "passing wind" sound (heh,heh).>We had Perry Farrell's (of Jane's Addiction fame) Nova in once, and>all he had was the GM Targetmaster motor with some Superturbos on it.>After a switch to 2 1/2 tube and those new Aluminized Flowmasters>(compared to the older black-painted steel ones), his car had that crisp>"bark" and funny rattling sound.  The car did have a crossover pipe, but>it was kinda loud.>>As for four cylinders, the do give "harsher" sound and a more deeper>bellow on acceleration, but don't expect much of a "burble" when idling or>"WAHHHHHHHHHH,WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH" when you really hammer your foot through>the floor.  I guess its the compression, the overall smaller volume of>gasses, and exhaust pulse of the four that makes it kinda unique to four>cylinder applications.>>Happy gas passing!>>Jimmy Tom>92 P/U>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:51:21 -0500 (EST)
 From: DRM033@aol.com
 Subject: non-stock exhaust
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Originally by Jonathan Albrecht  Anyway the cop went on to say that
 Alaska recently passed some ordinance that requires that all vehicles run
 the 'stock' exhaust system.  He went on to inform my friend that he has 10
 days to fix his exhaust system, and take it in to the police hq. for
 inspection.
 Did anyone get anywhere with this one??  It does sound like there are a lot
 of holes in it.  I don't know anything about american law.  I would be
 interested in knowing what
 they define as 'Stock' and how exactly they are qualified to decide if a
 system meets that criteria.  Is there a model year start for this?  How would
 this affect muffler shops like Midas and Speedy?
 Well, I see plenty of problems with this.  I personally think the cop has no
 idea what he is talking about.  There is no way that I can see to tell if you
 have the "stock" exhaust. By the rules he gave, you would not be able to
 replace the stock exhaust when it failed.  From any info I have ever seen,
 these are the guidelines I have seen:
 1.  cat
 2.  Muffler
 3.  must follow loudness reagulations
 I think maybe your friend falls into the last one.  I know people here in
 Tennessee who have legal exhausts, but have been ticketed for being too loud.
 Hope this helps.
 David
 DRM033@aol.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:29:43 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: on-board air 82 toy 4x4 parts PLEASE HELP
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 FYI and FWIW does everyone realize that an A/C compressor pumps oil out of
 the crankcase and into the discharge line.  An oil return trap would solve
 this but may be bulky or expensive.
 Any other thoughts;)
 Steve C.
 At 01:30 AM 3/25/97 -0500, you wrote:>im interested in installing on-board air on my 82 toyota p/u using a>factory a/c	compressor and a7-gallon air tank. does anyone have a list of>parts that i will need?? or any helpful suggestons?? has anyone>successfully               accomplished this?? please e-mail me>purnrgy@quancon.com thanx in advance...>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 22:54:48 -0600 (CST)
 From: twogrls@ix.netcom.com
 Subject: on board air/blue book prices
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 you wrote>im interested in installing on-board air on my 82 toyota p/u using a>factory a/c	compressor and a7-gallon air tank. does anyone have a list>of>parts that i will need?? or any helpful suggestons?? has anyone>successfully               accomplished this?? please e-mail me>purnrgy@quancon.com thanx in advance...
 You can find what looks like a great instructions for making a on board air
 system at http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/faqs/aircompr.html I have not
 gotten around to that project but you can see my air tank bumper at my NEW
 site http://pw2.netcom.com/~twogrls/mptruck.html
 PS for those of you who have asked where the sign on twogrls came from
 follow the link to my home page.
 you wrote>Does anybody know the site for NADA?  I guess that's what the dealers>around here use.>Jonathan Albrecht
 The kelly Blue book on line is at http://www.kbb.com/ you can look up the
 price of any vechicle there.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Mike Pelland					1994 Red Extracab Toyota
 twogrls@ix.netcom.com				31X10.5 BFGs, Lockrite, RS9000;s
 San Antonio, TX 					4.88's,Downey SC clutch,
 Tread lightly, TLCA Member, SWFWDA			Ramsey Winch,
 http://pw2.netcom.com/~twogrls/mptruck.html
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 11:26:41 -0500 (EST)
 From: Jeffles37@aol.com
 Subject: Rough Idle....
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I have been having some rough idle problems on my 87 Toy P/U
 (22R-TE)....I was wondering if it is merely mileage (161K), or possible the
 O2 sensor...its still  OEM, or what? I've check gaps and timing, as well as
 used Slick 50 oil treatment. Please help!
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:04:14 +0500
 From: Scott Hollister  Subject: Rough Idle....
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 At 11:26 AM 3/25/97 -0500, you wrote:>     I have been having some rough idle problems on my 87 Toy P/U>(22R-TE)....I was wondering if it is merely mileage (161K), or possible the>O2 sensor...its still  OEM, or what? I've check gaps and timing, as well as>used Slick 50 oil treatment. Please help!
 I had some rough idle problems on my 84 until I changed the timing chain.
 Has this been done on yours?
 Scott> ------------------------------
 Date: 25 Mar 97 14:36:36 PST
 From: Norman.Goetz@directory.Reed.EDU (Norman Goetz)
 Subject: special order Taco; tire question
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I recently received delivery on my '97 Tacoma, ordered in October, and thought
 I would pass on some of my experience.  So far have not found any defects and
 am pleased with the result.
 But despite an large amount of effort on my part looking at the Toyota web site
 and dealer spec books, and careful work with a knowledgeable dealer, the truck
 came with 4 significant differences from what we ordered/expected.  Either
 dealers are not supplied with correct ordering information, or production lines
 changed during the months between order and assembly.  I accepted the truck
 anyway, and am not unhappy, but I can imagine other changes which would have
 left me very upset.  Toyota makes no secret that they are not oriented toward
 doing special orders, and my experience reflects that.
 The specs:  4X4 Xtra cab, 2.7 L w/manual, ABS, locking rear diff, 31X10.5R15
 Goodyear RT/S.
 1.  Apparently (according to the dashboard light) the ABS is disabled only when
 the locker is engaged, not in 4H or 4L as I was told by Toyota.  I'm going to
 investigate this furthur.  Maybe the relay for the light just doesn't work  ...
 2.  Dealer info said you must order the tachometer with the locker, and I
 wanted tilt steering and intermittent wipers, so we ordered them separately.
 Instead it came with the convenience package, which also included cruise
 control at extra cost.
 3.  Dealer info said that ADD (shift-on-the-fly) was mandatory with the locker,
 instead it came with manual hubs and no ADD.  The dealer was amazed.  Now I
 have the possibility of adding a front limited-slip without additional work
 diabling the ADD.
 4.  website info said diff ratios would be 3.40 (ugh), instead it apparently
 came with 4.10s, if the tentative info on the LC site is correct.
 I'm not trying to whine here at all.  I consider 1 & 2 as negatives, 3 & 4 as
 positives that more than make up for 1 & 2.
 Now a question:
 I've been thinking of taller and narrower tires, to optimize for deep snow on
 roads, which is almost all my wheeling.  Unfortunately I'm looking for tall and
 narrow in a short and fat world.  I'd been looking at 235/85R16 as the next
 step up which would still give about the same fender clearance, but that would
 require new wheels.  But looking at some actual dimensions for some tire
 models, especially the static loaded radius, it appears that 33/9.50R15 may
 have an actual diameter only trivially different, that they are not an inch
 taller the way the nominal size would lead you to believe.  Comments?
 Norman
 ------------------------------
 Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 07:44:12 -0500
 From: s0baker@usuhsb.usuhs.mil
 Subject: Test of realtime mode
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Sorry, I have gotten 3 messages in the past 4 days off of real time mode
 and am just checking to see if it works.  It should get forwarded back
 to me.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:46:47 -0500
 From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
 Subject: Timing chain
 To: "        -         (052)aguinsky (a) nortel.ca"  Rich:
 If you want to take out the oil pan on an IFS - you have to DROP
 the IFS - all the way out.
 I know - I tried for hours to do it w/o taking the IFS all the way out -
 the oil pickup prevents ya from taking the pan out w/o taking the  diff
 down at least 1 foot. If you have a lift... you might be able to do it w/o
 taking the axle all the way out, but you would need a second sent of hands
 in there.
 Get a soft face hammer (Craftsman has one w/ a urathane face) and
 really wack at it.
 You wont need to "cut" the seal off like the factory manual sez.... at
 least I did'nt.
 There was a thread here somehwere about of the chain could be done
 w/o dropping the pan. If I recall correctly, several people did it by
 taking it apart from the top. Just dont drop anything in the pan!
 Also - theres a hidden bolt in the chain ocver - its under a small
 puddle of oil. Dont bust off the cover!
 EWong
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:30:44 -0800
 From: "Todd and Terry"  Subject: Timing chain
 To: ,  Just did a friends timing chain on an 86 with the 22r.  We did it without
 removing the oil pan.  Just use lots of permatex blue in the groove of the
 oil pan and in the lower corners of the timing chain cover, block, oil pan
 junction.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:34:20 -0600
 From: Stan & Pam Braun  Subject: Tow Strap Usage
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 I just wanted to re-emphasize what someone else said about NOT hooking a
 tow strap to a tow ball.  I've seen tow balls (and actually whole stock
 rear bumpers) go flying through windows of the tow (& towed) trucks
 narrowly missing the drivers!  I've also heard of a fellow club member
 being seriously injured (collapsed lung, etc) when a winch cable broke &
 he was a bystander quite a distance away!  Using tow straps & winches
 should not be taken lightly.  I never hook a strap to anything other
 than a frame mounted hook or receiver hitch with a clevis hook
 attachment.  Stock bumpers with clevis hooks may be ok for very light
 stucks but anything serious & you might see a bumper go flying!
 Now to get off my soap box and ask a question .... Has anyone had any
 experience with the Rancho Performance brake shoes & pads?  Supposedly
 they have some coating that makes them work better on 4x4's - I'm kinda
 skeptical but need to redo my brakes front & rear & was wondering if
 they really seem to be worth the extra bucks.
 - --
 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 - -    There's nothing like wheelin in the great outdoors!             -
 - -    brauns@sprynet.com                                              -
 - ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:40:23 -0800 (PST)
 From: " Jared  Rogers"  Subject: Used p/u need some advice
 To: albr9619@uidaho.edu, Toy4x4@tlca.org>I'll just wait until I can>find a 4Runner.
 You see 90-91 4WD 4runners in the Dallas area for $10k-$12k all the time. Shop
 around. A Year ago, I paid $14.7k for my LOADED SR5 4WD 4runner w/ 72k miles on
 it in May of last year. It has proved to be an extremely reliable vehicle so
 far, as the only problem I've had (aside from the AC which Toyota fixed for
 FREE), has been a leaky clutch hose - which the dealer raped me on. ($139)
 According to the owners records, the 4runner had the head gasket replaced at
 around 60k miles or so.
 I've taken the 4runner on vacation several times. I've taken it to the beach,
 lake, mountains, and the desert. I've been very happy with it. It it really
 comfortable on long trips and the sunroof is a MUST have for those mild spring
 days. The shift-on-the-fly 4WD system works great and seem durable. The power
 is decent in town and the torque seems to be plenty for my offroad uses. The
 sound system is impressive and includes a cassette/CD/AM-FM combo w/ several
 speakers.
 Why not buy a 4WD truck AND a 4runner?  Jared Rogers
 1989 Toyota 4x4 DX X-CAB V6
 1990 Toyota Celica GT-S
 1991 Toyota 4runner SR5 4WD V6
 - ---------------------------------------------------------
 Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
 - ---------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 07:35:56 -0500
 From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles"  Subject: Used p/u need some advice
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Jonathan Albrecht wrote:>> Does anybody know the site for NADA?  I guess that's what the dealers> around here use.>> Jonathan Albrecht> albr9619@uidaho.edu> http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
 Jonathan,
 Try http://edmund.com/edweb/index.html
 The info you want can be found here. You can work up a price for a used
 truck factoring in mileage, options, etc. Good luck!
 Butch Stiles
 rokitman@erols.com
 Just as it says, "Rocket Man"
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 10:49:09 EST
 From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin)
 Subject: wood is good!
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Well yesterday afternoon I was rearended. I was stopped at a stoplight
 and I looked in my mirror and knew that I was going to be hit. I big
 Penske moving truck nailed me from the rear!  He pushed my step bumper
 under my wood bed about 3". I think my frame might have moved but I took
 it to the dealer for an estimate and they said it didn't. However they
 are going to measure my rear frame rails to make sure. I would definetly
 have to say if I had a stock bed on my truck I would have had tons more
 damage. The wood bed just shifted forward a tiny bit. My step bumper is
 bent and buckled but held up really well. I am not sure who made the
 bumper but it really looks identical to a Smittybuilt. I have to say that
 the Toyota windshield  is REALLY strong. Both my father and I hit it w/
 our (hard) heads and it didn't break! I am upset with my estimate from
 toyota though. They are only giving me $252!  The bumper alone is worth
 most of that! They also wont pay for a new muffler and tailpipe, which
 when the bed shifted put a good size crease in the pipe and broke a mount
 off my muffler. I will take it somewhere else.
 Remember   WOOD IS GOOD!
 Matt Chapin
 matt877@juno.com
 81' 4x4 SR5
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:02:08 -0800 (PST)
 From: " Jared  Rogers"  Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>I have to say that>the Toyota windshield  is REALLY strong. Both my father and I hit it w/>our (hard) heads and it didn't break!
 Did you hit the windshield while wearing your seatbelts? How?
 Jared
 - ---------------------------------------------------------
 Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
 - ---------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:42:20 -0800
 From: Scott Wilson  Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I am upset with my estimate from> toyota though. They are only giving me $252!  The bumper alone is worth> most of that! They also wont pay for a new muffler and tailpipe, which> when the bed shifted put a good size crease in the pipe and broke a mount> off my muffler. I will take it somewhere else.
 That is estimate is pathetic!  You're absolutely right, take $175 out
 for the bumper and they're left with $77 to fix the truck?!  I don't
 think so.  You're right, keep getting estimates until you find one you
 like.  (Or at least reasonable)  The truck behind you is responsible for
 ALL DAMAGE to your truck.  Even the crease in the tail pipe, don't let
 them tell you different.
 Good luck,
 Scott
 - --
 *****************************************************
 Scott Wilson TLCA #5261
 88 4Runner SR5 V6
 Santa Clara, CA
 http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 14:25:12 EST
 From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin)
 Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I am sorry to say that we weren't wearing our seat belts. I know--DUMB!
 Matt Chapin
 matt877@juno.com
 81' 4x4 SR5
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 08:02:08 -0800 (PST) " Jared  Rogers"
 writes:>>I have to say that>>the Toyota windshield  is REALLY strong. Both my father and I hit it>w/>>our (hard) heads and it didn't break!>>Did you hit the windshield while wearing your seatbelts? How?>>Jared>>>--------------------------------------------------------->Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com>---------------------------------------------------------> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:58:59 -0500 (EST)
 From: SKeene8194@aol.com
 Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 In a message dated 97-03-25 15:43:37 EST, you write:
<> Don't feel like you missed something by not wearing your toyota seat belt.
 I was wearing mine on one of my first off road trips and bounced my head on
 the
 windshield.   My front tire dropped into a crevice on a rocky trail and
 stopped the truck.  This trail was a "1" in difficulty, on a scale of 1-4.
 My truck is an 81 also, with the floating type seat belt.   I now have 4
 point harnesses.  But I still use the Factory belts on the street.  I just
 tuck the harnesses behind the seats.
 I highly recommend better seat belts for off road use.  Most of the floating,
 one shoulder
 belts won't keep you in the seat if you roll over.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 16:09:06 -0800 (PST)
 From: Jonathan Albrecht  Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 SKeene8194@aol.com wrote:> My truck is an 81 also, with the floating type seat belt.  I now have 4> point harnesses.  But I still use the Factory belts on the street.  I> just tuck the harnesses behind the seats.
 Just curious, what did you bolt the shoulder straps to?
 Jonathan Albrecht
 albr9619@uidaho.edu
 http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:53:00 -0700 (MST)
 From: Knowles Ken  Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Matthew C Chapin wrote:> I am sorry to say that we weren't wearing our seat belts. I know--DUMB!> Last year a flatbed truck backed into me while I was driving past at about
 30mph. It stopped my truck cold. I hit the shoulder belt *hard* and
 dislocated three ribs. It hurt to breath for a while and I couldn't laugh
 for six weeks! I wonder if smacking your head on the windshield hurts
 worse or less :-)
 - --
 Ken Knowles                    National Snow & Ice Data Center
 knowles@kryos.colorado.edu     University of Colorado
 voice: 303-492-0644            Campus Box 449
 fax: 303-492-2468              Boulder, CO 80309-0449
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:47:19 -0500
 From: WartHog  Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Knowles Ken wrote:>>> Last year a flatbed truck backed into me while I was driving past at about> 30mph. It stopped my truck cold. I hit the shoulder belt *hard* and> dislocated three ribs. It hurt to breath for a while and I couldn't laugh> for six weeks! I wonder if smacking your head on the windshield hurts> worse or less :-)> Popping the Noggin on the windshield, while having greater potential for
 perminant damage ( like ruining the spelling Gene ), Hurts less than
 bruising, dislocating, cracking, or breaking ribs.> --> Ken Knowles                    National Snow & Ice Data Center> knowles@kryos.colorado.edu     University of Colorado> voice: 303-492-0644            Campus Box 449> fax: 303-492-2468              Boulder, CO 80309-0449
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:05:24 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 As far as no brken bones in the head just a hard hit and lump I would think
 the ribs win.  Especially if you sneeze as often as I do.
 Steve C.  only speculating though I have had plenty of head injuries
 At 05:53 PM 3/25/97 -0700, you wrote:>>On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Matthew C Chapin wrote:>>> I am sorry to say that we weren't wearing our seat belts. I know--DUMB!>>>>Last year a flatbed truck backed into me while I was driving past at about>30mph. It stopped my truck cold. I hit the shoulder belt *hard* and>dislocated three ribs. It hurt to breath for a while and I couldn't laugh>for six weeks! I wonder if smacking your head on the windshield hurts>worse or less :-)>>-->Ken Knowles                    National Snow & Ice Data Center>knowles@kryos.colorado.edu     University of Colorado>voice: 303-492-0644            Campus Box 449>fax: 303-492-2468              Boulder, CO 80309-0449>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:09:46 EST
 From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin)
 Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Well as a matter of fact I have hit the windshield twice in my life(I am
 19). once in a 91' jeep cherokee going about 45 and some girl pulled out
 in front of my brother(the driver) and we both decided to see how hard
 the windshield was. apparently my side was harder (or head softer) than
 his, because his broke the window and i did not. Boy did that one hurt!
 It probably would have been less painful if it broke!
 This last time  I was driving and  I honestly don't have ANY pain. I
 guess it is that adrenaline rush form getting so pissed off. My father
 however has been complaining of neck pain-- enough to go to the doctor.
 You compare.
 Matt Chapin
 matt877@juno.com
 81' 4x4 SR5
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 17:53:00 -0700 (MST) Knowles Ken
 writes:>>On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Matthew C Chapin wrote:>>> I am sorry to say that we weren't wearing our seat belts. I>know--DUMB!>>>>Last year a flatbed truck backed into me while I was driving past at>about>30mph. It stopped my truck cold. I hit the shoulder belt *hard* and>dislocated three ribs. It hurt to breath for a while and I couldn't>laugh>for six weeks! I wonder if smacking your head on the windshield hurts>worse or less :-)>>-->Ken Knowles                    National Snow & Ice Data Center>knowles@kryos.colorado.edu     University of Colorado>voice: 303-492-0644            Campus Box 449>fax: 303-492-2468              Boulder, CO 80309-0449>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 23:15:15 EST
 From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin)
 Subject: wood is good!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I think broken bones beat a lump hands down!
 Matt Chapin
 matt877@juno.com
 81' 4x4 SR5
 On Tue, 25 Mar 1997 21:05:24 -0600 Steve Capuano  writes:>>As far as no brken bones in the head just a hard hit and lump I would>think>the ribs win.  Especially if you sneeze as often as I do.>Steve C.  only speculating though I have had plenty of head injuries>>At 05:53 PM 3/25/97 -0700, you wrote:>>>>On Tue, 25 Mar 1997, Matthew C Chapin wrote:>>>>> I am sorry to say that we weren't wearing our seat belts. I>know--DUMB!>>>>>>>Last year a flatbed truck backed into me while I was driving past at>about>>30mph. It stopped my truck cold. I hit the shoulder belt *hard* and>>dislocated three ribs. It hurt to breath for a while and I couldn't>laugh>>for six weeks! I wonder if smacking your head on the windshield hurts>>worse or less :-)>>>>-->>Ken Knowles                    National Snow & Ice Data Center>>knowles@kryos.colorado.edu     University of Colorado>>voice: 303-492-0644            Campus Box 449>>fax: 303-492-2468              Boulder, CO 80309-0449>>>>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:04:34 -0800
 From: EJ  ------------------------------
 The views expressed in Toy4x4 are those of the individual authors only.
 Be sure to check out the OFFROAD MAILING LIST.
 Subscription requests can be sent to: offroad-request@off-road.com
 End of Toy4x4 Digest
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