Toy4x4 Digest          Tue, 14 Oct 97 12:30:02 (HST)  Volume 1 : Issue 486
 Today's Topics:
 *****HELP****(4Runner gas mileage) (5 msgs)
 4Runner interior panels (2 msgs)
 Curb weights (2 msgs)
 Double cab pics web sites (2 msgs)
 Interco Tires + Swap book
 Logo Candidates
 ProComp & Downey Kit (2 msgs)
 Speedo correction
 V6 Headgasket
 Welding rear axle gears
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 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 10:49:25 -0500
 From: Philip Farrish   Subject: *****HELP****(4Runner gas mileage)
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I just bought a 1992 4Runner for my wife, it is getting 14 mpg around
 town and short trips!  (SR5 V6 A/T)  I figured it would get at least 17
 or so.  I'm looking for some input from those of you who have this model
 truck.  Any information will be appreciated..
 Philip Farrish
 89 4Runner 4banger
 92 4Runner Gas hog!
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:09:42 -0500
 From: "Michael Rowe"  Subject: *****HELP****(4Runner gas mileage)
 To:  If it's 4x4, that is around avg for a higher mile truck. My '88 with 173K
 miles gets around 15 in town and 19-20 on long trips. My mothers ''95 2wd
 gets 17 in town and 20-22 on long trips.
 Michael Rowe
 http://www.southpadre.com/offroad.htm> I just bought a 1992 4Runner for my wife, it is getting 14 mpg around> town and short trips!  (SR5 V6 A/T)  I figured it would get at least 17> or so.  I'm looking for some input from those of you who have this model> truck.  Any information will be appreciated..
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:20:35 -0400
 From: Ed Ruf  Subject: *****HELP****(4Runner gas mileage)
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 At 10:49 AM 10/14/97 -0500, Philip Farrish illustriously expounded:>I just bought a 1992 4Runner for my wife, it is getting 14 mpg around>town and short trips!  (SR5 V6 A/T)  I figured it would get at least 17>or so.  I'm looking for some input from those of you who have this model>truck.  Any information will be appreciated..
 FWIW. A quick check of EPA files showed 15 mpg City listed for this vehicle.
 ED
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:02:18 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Chris Geiger  Subject: *****HELP****(4Runner gas mileage)
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 When I was looking to buy my 93 4Runner I noticed that the EPA ratings
 showed that the auto gets 4 MPG less than the 5 Speed. I did not think it
 would be worth all that gas.
 Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html> I just bought a 1992 4Runner for my wife, it is getting 14 mpg around> town and short trips!  (SR5 V6 A/T)  I figured it would get at least 17> or so.  I'm looking for some input from those of you who have this model> truck.  Any information will be appreciated..>>> Philip Farrish> 89 4Runner 4banger> 92 4Runner Gas hog!> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 13:56:19 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Ken Emanuel  Subject: *****HELP****(4Runner gas mileage)
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I have a 1994 4Runner brochure that quotes V6 5 speed gas mileage at
 15 city/18 hwy. and the V6 auto at 14 city/18 hwy.
 Ken
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 11:34:35 -7 GMT
 From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"  Subject: 4Runner interior panels
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> From: rmurray@gvn.net (Rick Murray)>> My rear interior panels on both sides (between rollbar and tailgate) are> both cracking and falling apart with age.  I believe that Toyota (oh, what> they do for me) wants around $200 each for them.  Is there an aftermarket> outfit that sells replacements ?  Especially beefier ones (stock ones are only> about 1/16" thick.  I store spare parts, straps, air hose, etc behind them> and the stock units aren't holding up.  I'm thinking of ordering a sheet of> 1/8" abs plastic and fabricate my own.
 rick, instead try fiberglassing the thing.  you can probably 'glass it
 from the 'unseen' (back) side.  then to fill in the cracks, use putty or
 body filler and get some color matching paint to touch it up.
 it a lot of work, but materials should be low ($$$) and it will be a
 lot tougher than OEM...
 - -----------------------
 Leo G. Divinagracia III
 ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 14:45:37 -0500
 From: "Michael Rowe"  Subject: 4Runner interior panels
 To:  You might try gluing supports on the backside to keep them together and
 then covering the outside in matching padded vinyl or carpet. That's what
 I'll be doing when I have to. The carpet should cut down on road noise.
 Michael Rowe
 http://www.southpadre.com/offroad.htm> My rear interior panels on both sides (between rollbar and tailgate) are> both cracking and falling apart with age.  I believe that Toyota (oh,
 what> they do for me) wants around $200 each for them.  Is there an
 aftermarket> outfit that sells replacements ?  Especially beefier ones (stock ones
 are only> about 1/16" thick.  I store spare parts, straps, air hose, etc behind
 them> and the stock units aren't holding up.  I'm thinking of ordering a sheet
 of> 1/8" abs plastic and fabricate my own.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 97 11:10:43 -0600
 From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
 Subject: Curb weights
 To: toyota-mods@cyberauto.com
 OK, I just got my G-tech Pro performance meter last night
 (http://www.gtechpro.com), and I started playing around with it. In order to
 measure HP, I need to input the vehicle weight... I was wondering if anyone
 has weighed their P/U or 4Runner on a scale.  I guessed at the trucks weight,
 with the v-8, 35's, & 2 passengers, and then ran it, I got approx 135 hp at
 the rear wheels?  I dunno if it's right - that would only make it 160 at the
 flywheel??? unless my drivetrain loss is more than I thought (also rotational
 mass of the 35x12.50x15 tires sucking up HP??)
 I know I've got to go find a weigh station or somewhere with scales to get an
 accurate figure, but anyone want to take a guess as to weights of:
 1) 1984 toy 4x4 xtra-cab p/u, chev v-8, 700R4 auto, 35's
 2) 1985 toy 4Runner - totally stock except 31x10.5's
 3) 1995 Toy Avalon - I know what HP this one should put out according to
 toyota, so I can see if the meter is close
 Also any magazine specs on the above to compare against? (0-60 et, 60-0 ft,
 1/4 mi, braking g's, cornering g's)
 Please reply to me directly!
 Thanks,
 Brian
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:29:30 -0500
 From: John Schultz  Subject: Curb weights
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Brian,
 I know that the truck stop up in Platte City has a scale.  I don't know
 what part of town you live in.
 John
 bwiencek@kcnet.com wrote:>> OK, I just got my G-tech Pro performance meter last night> (http://www.gtechpro.com), and I started playing around with it. In order to> measure HP, I need to input the vehicle weight... I was wondering if anyone> has weighed their P/U or 4Runner on a scale.  I guessed at the trucks weight,> with the v-8, 35's, & 2 passengers, and then ran it, I got approx 135 hp at> the rear wheels?  I dunno if it's right - that would only make it 160 at the> flywheel??? unless my drivetrain loss is more than I thought (also rotational> mass of the 35x12.50x15 tires sucking up HP??)>> I know I've got to go find a weigh station or somewhere with scales to get an> accurate figure, but anyone want to take a guess as to weights of:> 1) 1984 toy 4x4 xtra-cab p/u, chev v-8, 700R4 auto, 35's> 2) 1985 toy 4Runner - totally stock except 31x10.5's> 3) 1995 Toy Avalon - I know what HP this one should put out according to> toyota, so I can see if the meter is close>> Also any magazine specs on the above to compare against? (0-60 et, 60-0 ft,> 1/4 mi, braking g's, cornering g's)>> Please reply to me directly!>         Thanks,>                 Brian
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:04:15 -0000
 From: runars@isbank.is
 Subject: Double cab pics web sites
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 First, forget that L diesel motor.  Like I've said many times before the
 unturbos are as underpowered as engine can get.  The 2L (2.4 liter)
 makes amasing 75 hp, while the L engine (2.2 liter) make magical 60 hp.
 !!!!
 The 2.4 with turbo and intercooler is around 100 - 120 hp and has bunch
 of tourqe, without a turbo, it has neither.
 There are three kinds of double cabs up here.  Due to tax laws, double
 cabs where rated as pickups for some time, and therefore had lower taxes
 (were cheeper), and bunch of peoble bought them instead of 4runners and
 such.  The gov didn't like it and changed the rules so a pickup now has
 to have a bed that is at least 75% of the lenght of the interior.  So,
 two new versions of double cabs started to show up, both extended.  This
 was after '89, so there are no pre '89 lenghtened doubles.  One way was
 simply to extend the bed backwards those 15cm needed.  Looked ugly.
 Another way was to cut the chassis in two and weld in a good two feets
 of new frame members.  Then fit a short bed box, or modify the existing
 one.  Bunch of thise around, both in privte use and in gov use.
 Wheelbase around 3.2m.
 Of course you can make one, but don't expect to get a lot of experince
 from anyone, as I don't think there is a lot of experience around.....!
 Cheers, from the top of the world
 Runar.> -----Original Message-----> From:	Rosenberger Bud [SMTP:rosenber@lumsys.com]> Sent:	Monday, October 13, 1997 7:50 PM> To:	Toy4x4@tlca.org> Subject:	Double cab pics web sites>>> I'm looking for any 84-88 double cab pics/specs/ ( especially a> dimensioned view like a frame shop would use)   I'm thinking of> modifying> one of my trucks and would like to see how the factory did it.  If you>> have hard copies, I'll pay for copying and mailing.  Anybody that has>> lengthened their frames( for some reason), I'd love to hear from you>> also.  Any help would be appreciated.>> I know, I know.  First diesel questions, now double cabs.  I had too> much> time on my hands this weekend...!   I really want a turbo diesel,> solid> axle, double cab, with a long bed.  I can't buy one so maybe I can> make> one...>> Bud Rosenberger> 85 SR5 longbed -22RE> 85 shortbed-22R> brosenberger@lumsys.com
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:13:12 -0000
 From: runars@isbank.is
 Subject: Double cab pics web sites
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> -----Original Message-----> From:	Chris Geiger [SMTP:geiger@mcl.ucsb.edu]> Sent:	Monday, October 13, 1997 8:21 PM> To:	Toy4x4@tlca.org> Subject:	Re: Double cab pics web sites>> I have 7 pictures of double cab trucks on my web page at:>> http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/othertrucks/hilux.html> [-->>  ]  Nice page, execpt the text is a bit wrong.  Those all have are
 long wheelbase (2.85m).  The short wheelbase is 2.5 and the '89 on xtra
 cab is 3.05m.  I didn't know about that 1gen double cab.  We never got
 those...
 BTW The interior is cramped in those things, and rear seat passengers
 need helmets to protect them heads from the rear window.....!
 After some timepoint,  only Diesels had the live front axle, the
 gasolines had the IFS,. and I don't think there has ever been a V6
 double cab.
 [-->>  ]  cheers.
 Runar.
 If you look well at http://www.artictrucks.is you can see one or two,
 and I think I've seen one (38 inched) somewhere on TCLA user trucks
 pages.....>> and one more here:> http://holly.colostate.edu/~ellinger/images/ludo.jpg>> Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html>> On Mon, 13 Oct 1997, Rosenberger Bud wrote:>>>>> I'm looking for any 84-88 double cab pics/specs/ ( especially a>> dimensioned view like a frame shop would use)   I'm thinking of> modifying>> one of my trucks and would like to see how the factory did it.  If> you>> have hard copies, I'll pay for copying and mailing.  Anybody that> has>> lengthened their frames( for some reason), I'd love to hear from you>>> also.  Any help would be appreciated.>>>> I know, I know.  First diesel questions, now double cabs.  I had too> much>> time on my hands this weekend...!   I really want a turbo diesel,> solid>> axle, double cab, with a long bed.  I can't buy one so maybe I can> make>> one...>>>> Bud Rosenberger>> 85 SR5 longbed -22RE>> 85 shortbed-22R>> brosenberger@lumsys.com>>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:47:11 -0400
 From: Sheldon  Subject: Interco Tires + Swap book
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I appreciate all the responses on the wheels.  It's obvious that I will> have to upgrade to a larger rim due to width of the tire I want.  Now> I'm curious what you all think of Interco tires.  I had a friend who had> some 31's on his truck and they looked great.  He said they did wonders> for him.  I'm looking at getting the Thornbirds right now.  They have> about 3 or 4 other models and I'm curious what is the difference???  I'm> looking for off-road performance.  This vehicle is a daily driver but> work is only 1/4 mile away so no big deal.  How about width?? Wider> better??  I don't have the paper in front of me but I believe most of> them had option of 11.5 or 12.25.  Any advantages or disadvantages to go> with the 12.25 over the 11.5?  Other question deals with size.  My '93> Toy has a 3 inch body lift right now.  From what I've seen that will> only allow 33's on her.  Any chance 35's will fit and still allow me> reasonable wheel; travel over rocks,  etc..  I plan on getting a> suspension lift but it will probably be many months down the road.  This> is why I kind of want the 35's now.  Plan for the future so I won't have> to purchase new tires later down the road if at all possible.  Once> again,  thanks for all the help.>> Gregg
 Gregg I can tell you after 3 weeks and 2000 miles my new 33x12.5 swamper radials, I have
 come to the conclusion that they are the best damm tire I have ever owned!!! They rock
 off road and are smooth as glass on road, only drawback "to some not me" is they howl a
 bit at speed I love it!!!!
 Bought them locally for about 620.00 kinda expensive but I can tell you that when these
 wear out I'm gunna buy a brand new set.
 Two things about the raidials you might wanna know,
 1. they have these neat little raised squares on the sidewall's in the same pattern as
 an sx only no lugs it beef's up the sidewall very much. "and looks really neat"
 2. The tread pattern is different than a bias ply swamper. comparing mine to a friends
 bias 33x12.5 swampers this weekend my tires are about 3/4" narrower the lugs are a bit
 smaller and have slighty less spacing between them. Drawback you say? I don't think so
 they grab great in the mud and work way nicer on road. I have owned the same size bias
 ply swampers and the raidials by far out perform them in just about every way.
 On another tanget I remember seeing a book for Toy's that had all kinds of engine swap
 info I can't remember the name anyone know what I'm talking about and where to get it?
 Was it Jays book?
 Sheldon
 83Toy4x4
 sgard@flnet.com
 http://www.flnet.com/~sgard/
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 12:52:33 -0700
 From: Scott Wilson  Subject: Logo Candidates
 To: Toy 4x4 List  I'm setting the last day to get your logo in as Oct 20 (Monday).  Any
 objections?
 Then everyone will have one week to vote (Oct 21-Oct 27)  Any
 objections?  (I'll give details on "how" to vote later...)
 Scott
 - --
 _____
 /_/_|_\__       Scott Wilson TLCA #5261  CA4WDC #13393
 | _     _ :     88 4Runner SR5 V6
 */_\---/_\'     Santa Clara, CA
 (_)   (_)      http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:20:15 -0400
 From: Doug <4_your_eyes_only@thepentagon.com> Subject: ProComp & Downey Kit
 To: Toyota 4x4 Digest  I'm buying the ProComp Stage II kit for my 91 P/U and want to install
 the Downey 10"-11" travel kit in addition.  Can I install this later,
 and if I do, can I bring the diff back up?  I want the full 4" that the
 ProComp gives but I also want the clearance, which only Rancho and the
 SL SuperLink system offers.
 Doug Berger
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:23:36 -0500 (CDT)
 From: gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg S. Francis)
 Subject: ProComp & Downey Kit
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>I'm buying the ProComp Stage II kit for my 91 P/U and want to install>the Downey 10"-11" travel kit in addition.  Can I install this later,>and if I do, can I bring the diff back up?  I want the full 4" that the>ProComp gives but I also want the clearance, which only Rancho and the>SL SuperLink system offers.>>Doug Berger
 I imagine that this would be a difficult match, as the Downey kit relies on
 the Rancho arms for increased travel.  I don't know that you can get much
 more travel out of the Pro-Comp kit, even with the Downey parts (ball
 joints, axle shafts).  Just my opinion, never having closely inspected the
 Pro-Comp kit in this regard.
 - -Greg
 Greg S. Francis
 University of Texas @ Austin
 School of Architecture
 gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
 TLCA Member #5558
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 15:04:46 -0700 (PDT)
 From: Luke P Miller  Subject: Speedo correction
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 One fairly easy way to check your speedo error is to drive down the
 highway and pull up next to a late model Lincoln or some other luxo-barge
 with a digital speedometer in the dash. At night it's fairly easy to
 glance over, or have a passenger look, to see how fast the car is going.
 Pace the car and see what your speedo says, then do the math to figure out
 how far you're off.
 With 4.88's and 32" tires my speedo appears to read about 5mph fast around
 sixty miles per hour.
 This gives you something to do on those long dark trips to the wilderness,
 plus it occasionally causes the driver of the Lincoln to give you all
 sorts of weird looks.
 Luke Miller
 '85 4Runner
 ------------------------------
 Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 17:40:52 -0400
 From: bruce.elliott@londonlife.com (Elliott, Bruce)
 Subject: V6 Headgasket
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org (toy4x4)
 Just to add some Canadian perspective to the V6 headgasket story.  I talked
 with a service guy at a nearby dealer. He told me (while checking around for
 hidden microphones) that if I wanted to have my gasket replaced I should
 just tell him that I was 'losing coolant'.  They would then replace it
 without doing any fluid analysis.  My '92 runner has 145k kms (90k miles) on
 it, and he said that was no problem.  It seems that Toyota is not fussing
 too much about replacing all the gaskets under warranty.
 Should I get my valves adjusted while they are doing it?  My timing belt and
 water pump have already been replaced.
 On another note.  I saw an add in the local paper for an '85 runner SR5, all
 options, 'like new condition', DOT certified, selling for Cdn.$4,850.
 That's about $3,500 US.  Needless to say, it was sold before I could call.
 :(  This was from a used car dealer.  I guess he didn't know what he had.
 Oh well, the wife would not have been impressed if had come home with it.
 I was hoping to drive both trucks to the Rubicon trip and sell the '85 to
 pay for it.  Or I could have stored it for years.  I swear these things will
 be collectors items some day.   Maybe next time.
 I test drove a '98 runner the other day.  Really nice.  It seems that the
 electric locker is std. with the SR5 package here in the Great White North.
 Of course a Limited with V6 costs about $53K taxes in.  Yikes!
 -------------------------------------------------------
 Bruce Elliott
 London Life Insurance Company, London, Ontario, Canada.
 Internet:bruce.elliott@londonlife.com
 Phone:  (519) 432-2000 ext 3552
 Fax:  (519) 432-4759
 -------------------------------------------------------
 ------------------------------
 Date: 14 Oct 1997 09:10:58 -0700
 From: "Jay Kopycinski"  Subject: Welding rear axle gears
 To: "Toyota 4x4 List"  Subject:                              Time:  9:02 AM
 OFFICE MEMO         Welding rear axle gears               Date:  10/14/97
 orbital666@juno.com (Mike M Zio) wrote:>I was wondering, how would i go about welding my rear end to make it>possie traction, my friend welded the gears together and he has possie>traction, both wheels spin, i figure this would be great for better>offroad performance, what are the concequences?  please email me with>your info.
 Usually the best way is to weld all the spiders together and
 then also to the carrier itself. Use lots of high nickel content
 rod. Once done you will have what is commonly refered to as
 a Lincoln Locker.
 You will not have any posi action as both axles will be forced
 to always turn at the same speed. This will cause one of the
 tires to skip and chirp when you corner. It will also tend to
 push you straight in the turns. For turning you will have to
 adopt a kinda point and gas it technique. I know guys that have
 done it and it works ok for a cheap offroad locker. A true
 locker though will be much better.
 If you continue to drive it much on the street you will wear
 your tires quickly and over time will most likely convert
 the Lincoln Locker to what I call a Crack-Lok (tm) as the
 carrier will usually crack in half due to the increased stress.
 ______________________________________________
 Jay Kopycinski                                  '85 Toylet   (ROKTOY)
 Gilbert, AZ                                        '91 4Runner (hers)
 ryna10@email.sps.mot.com               '72 Jeep Commando
 http://www.netzone.com/~jayk        '97  H-D Sportster
 Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club               TLCA #3243
 ______________________________________________
 ------------------------------
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