Toy4x4 Digest          Thu, 20 Nov 97 00:30:02 (HST)  Volume 1 : Issue 559
 Today's Topics:
 22-RE w/ Bad headgasket - Replace or Rebuild, Long Winded
 81 22R Jerks when the engine is started????
 About that time...Hollister
 Bio (2 msgs)
 Ch*vys su*ck. (2 msgs)
 Ch*vys su*k. (2 msgs)
 headers for sale
 Headgasket
 head interchangability?????
 I did a bad thing too
 Leather in a Taco?
 None
 Pro Comp and BIG tires
 Rim size? (2 msgs)
 safety cancel switch
 Stuck springs
 Subject: "Safety Cancel" Switch (3 msgs)
 Sway Bar Quick Disconnect? (2 msgs)
 valance (3 msgs)
 Wheel Travel
 Whoop$!
 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
 ---   Toyota 4x4 Mailing List  (Toy4x4)   ---
 ** Sponsored by OFF-ROAD.com, The Off-Road Center of the 'Net! **
 **      Visit our WWW Page -- "http://www.off-road.com"        **
 **          TLCA Web Page -- "http://www.tlca.org"             **
 To post to list:
 Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Administrative matters (sign up, unsubscribe, mail problems, etc):
 Toy4x4-request@tlca.org
 Digest back issues are available at:
 http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toy4x4/toy4x4_digest.html
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:24:41 -0700
 From: Michael Stephens  Subject: 22-RE w/ Bad headgasket - Replace or Rebuild, Long Winded
 To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"  I just replaced the timing chain on my 88/89 4Runner last week.  It's
 also a 22RE.  I could only work on it during the day so it took me a
 while (like 2 days) , and that was my first time.  Ed Wong's advice of
 just unbolting the oil pan and moving it to the side is definetely the
 way to go, unless you just love to make things more difficult.  The
 hardest parts of the job?
 1.	Getting to a couple of the oil pan bolts.
 2.	I had some plastic from my right side damper in the oil pan. (It's a
 b***h to get it out)
 Lowering the oil pickup tube is included in this one because of the
 location of two bolts.
 3.	getting the gasket material off of the head and timing chain cover.
 Be careful!!!
 Use a gasket scraper and spray remover.
 4.	Getting the old oil pan seal off, cleaning, and putting the new
 gasket on.
 5.	I used the Haynes manual and though it is very informative and
 useful (couldn't have
 done the job without it) they tend to leave out a few things.
 Now the engine's running great and I know the job was done right.
 Michael Stephens
 Micron CMS
 88/89 4Runner>---------->From: 	Richard Aguinsky[SMTP:aguinsky@nortel.ca]>Sent: 	Tuesday,November 18,1997 12:51 PM>To: 	Toy4x4@tlca.org>Subject: 	22-RE w/ Bad headgasket - Replace or Rebuild, Long Winded>>kieth:>>i've got 190000 miles on my '87 4runner, and i share>the same concerns as you. mine is a 4 cylinder.>>please let me know what happened and how much does>it costs to replace the engine.>>regarding the timing chain, i tried to replace it, i>got a lot of good information from the Toy4x4 gang,>and the consensus was that i had to drop the IFS>to remove the oil pan, so i decided to leave it alone>for the time being, maybe next year.>>>>rich>'87 4 runner>190000 miles young>>>------------->>>>I've got a 86 4Runner w/ 197K miles and a blown head gasket. I believe>my options to getting my rig on the road again are:>>1.  Replace head gasket;>2.  Rebuild or replace engine; or>3.  Sell it for what I can get and buy something else.> ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:19:06 -0800
 From: Barney McNamara  Subject: 81 22R Jerks when the engine is started????
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, Specilizd@aol.com
 Steve wrote:>I have an 81 PU with a 22R engine.   It's developed a jerk or thump when it>is started.  The engine runs smoothly.  I rebuilt the head a couple years>ago, but the lower block is original and untouched. 150k miles  What could>this be? How do you test for broken motor mounts?  I've done some heavy>rock crawling in the last few weeks.
 Don't know if broken motor mount would do this, but you can see a broken
 one separate if you lift the engine with a floor jack under the oil pan.
 You don't have to lift very far. If you see any movement at the mounts,
 they are broken. When mine broke, the engine leaned over on the broken
 side so far that the accelerator cable did not function correctly, and
 the motor raced out of control. I changed mine by lifting the engine with
 the jack, and working the mounts into place.
 ______________________________________________________________
 Barney McNamara              JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed
 ( barney@flowpoint.com )     stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
 Santa Cruz, Ca.              8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
 homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm
 ______________________________________________________________
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:50:07 -0800
 From: Scott Wilson  Subject: About that time...Hollister
 To: Toy4x4 List  Well the Hollister date is quickely approaching.  One week from Friday.
 The CB channel is still 28, and the meeting time is still 10am at the
 main entrance.  If something goes wrong and you're not there by 10am,
 don't sweat it.  Just pay your 4 bucks, head to the 4WD area, and once
 inside take McCray (I think it's McCray, if you stay on the road you
 enter on, you're on the right one) farther into the park and start
 listening for us on ch 28.
 Anyone coming from North of Hollister is welcomed to meet up with me in
 Santa Clara (I live about 4 minutes off of Hwy 101) and caravan down.  I
 know Chris G is, and Mark H will probably catch us on the freeway.
 E-mail me direct and I'll give you directions to my house.
 If your approaching the Hollister from the North the most convenient
 place to fill your tank is Gilroy.  If you're meeting me at my house
 though, you better already have your tank full & your lunch with you,
 cause I plan on going straight to Hollister.
 Directions to Hollister:  From 101, take 156 E, Right on Union, Right on
 Cienega, Right at the dead end, it'll be on your right.  See a map at
 http://www.calohv.ca.gov/hollist2.htm
 Last time I checked...
 Henry Brimmer
 Chris Geiger
 Mark Hansen
 Tom Boyd
 Brandon Miller
 Tony Barlett (probably Brandon's passenger)
 Me
 Leo Divingracia
 Terry Johnson
 Antony Wilson
 ...were coming, so it should be a GREAT day on the trails!
 BTW, it continues to rain here in the SJ area, so I expect Hollister to
 have PLENTY of mud.
 Scott
 - --
 _____
 /_/_|_\__      Scott Wilson
 | _     _ :     Santa Clara, CA
 */_\---/_\'     http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
 (_)   (_)
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:12:09 -0800
 From: Thad  Subject: Bio
 To: Toy4x4  Personal Bio Info
 Name: Thad Kanko
 City & State: Santa Cruz, California
 Country:USA
 E-mail address: animator@cruzio.com
 Toyota (s) year & model: 1988 4runner
 Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?):No
 Age:26
 Occupation: 3d Animator
 Marital Status: Single
 Hobbies: 4X4, Shirking responsibility
 How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List:Web Search
 General info about your vehicle, self, etc.: Mostly Stock 4runner, 172K
 on the odometer...
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:30:33 -0800
 From: "Glen Fotre, CCIM"  Subject: Bio
 To: "'Toy4x4'"  Glen R. Fotre, CCIM
 7790 SW 88th Avenue
 Portland Commercial Real Estate Services
 Portland, OR 97223
 503-245-6112 voice
 503-245-6738 fax
 ccim@4u.net
 - -----Original Message-----
 From:	Toy4x4-Request [SMTP:toy4x4-request@tlca.org]
 Sent:	Wednesday, November 19, 1997 8:41 PM
 To:	ccim@4u.net
 Subject:	Bio
 Personal Bio Info
 POST TO THE LIST ONLY>> toy4x4@tlca.org
 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 Name:	Glen R. Fotre
 City & State: Portland, Oregon
 Country: US
 E-mail address: ccim@4u.net
 Toyota (s) year & model: 1982 4x4 Pickup
 Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?): No
 Age: 60
 Occupation: Commercial Real Estate Broker
 Marital Status: S
 Hobbies: Ski, Hike, Camp
 How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List:
 General info about your vehicle, self, etc.:over 250,000 miles & won't pas DEQ!
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:02:26 -0500
 From: jeff4cars@juno.com (Jeffrey Samler)
 Subject: Ch*vys su*ck.
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Ken Emanuel wrote:
 Not to state the obvious, but Ch*vys really suck.  My father just test
 drove a brand new one, AND BROKE DOWN ON THE TEST DRIVE!!  Needless to
 say, he didn't buy one.  You would think he would learn considering his
 work truck is a 1995 Ch*vy truck, and after 7,000 miles, the engine and
 transmission developed oil leaks, wouldn't start until after the 3rd
 try, 1/2 of the dash lights were burned out, and the frame creeked going
 out of the driveway!!
 So you told him to buy a Toyota, right?
 ************************************************************
 Jeff
 jeff4cars@juno.com
 1989 SR5 V6 Extra Cab 4X4, 5-speed, 92,000 miles,
 4" Trailmaster Lift, 33" BFG A/T's on 15X10 American
 Racing Alloys, Low Profile Bumpstops, K&N Air Filter,
 Rancho Dual Exhaust, Rancho Torque Arms, Go Rhino!
 Chrome Nerf Bars & Chrome Euroguard w/ Hella 500's,
 GTS all around, Sony CD-Player w/D-Bass
 *************************************************************
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:25:31 -0800
 From: Ken Emanuel  Subject: Ch*vys su*ck.
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> Ken Emanuel wrote:> Not to state the obvious, but Ch*vys really suck.  My father just test> drove a brand new one, AND BROKE DOWN ON THE TEST DRIVE!!..........
 Jeffrey Samler wrote:> So you told him to buy a Toyota, right?> I sent this message about 4 months ago.  I must have accidently sent
 it when I was looking for another message that I saved about exhaust
 systems.  But yes, I've been telling him to buy a Toyota for years.  He
 went out a few days later and bought a Dodge Ram Cummings Turbo Diesel.
 BTW, got the new custom exhaust installed along with a Dynomax muffler.
 I like it!!!!
 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
 Ken Emanuel                     Emanuel@csus.edu
 '87 Xtra Cab SR5    (22R-E)
 http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
 ------------------------------
 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:07:22 -0600
 From: breeze@cysource.com (Jeffrey Delzer)
 Subject: Ch*vys su*k.
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> From: Ken Emanuel > Subject: Ch*vys su*k.>> Not to state the obvious, but Ch*vys really suck.  My father just test> drove a brand new one, AND BROKE DOWN ON THE TEST DRIVE!!  Needless to> say, he didn't buy one.  You would think he would learn considering his> work truck is a 1995 Ch*vy truck, and after 7,000 miles, the engine and> transmission developed oil leaks, wouldn't start until after the 3rd> try, 1/2 of the dash lights were burned out, and the frame creeked going> out of the driveway!!>> Okay...I'm done.>> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*> Ken Emanuel                     Emanuel@csus.edu> '87 Xtra Cab SR5    (22R-E)> http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
 Are you saying that Chevy sucks? Is that 'Chevy' as in 'Chevrolet'? Just
 wanted to make sure, since your keyboard seems to be messing up
 somehow... While I'm at it, how do you feel about Ford? What about Jeep?
 Just curious...
 Jeff Delzer
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:10:56 -0800
 From: Ken Emanuel  Subject: Ch*vys su*k.
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Jeffrey Delzer wrote:> Are you saying that Chevy sucks? Is that 'Chevy' as in 'Chevrolet'? Just> wanted to make sure, since your keyboard seems to be messing up> somehow... While I'm at it, how do you feel about Ford? What about Jeep?> Just curious...> I didn't mean for that message to hit the list (it was something I sent
 months ago), but since you brought it up--I don't see where any
 manufacturer can match Toyota's out-of-the-box durability.  I have seen
 lots of Chevys and Fords throwing rods and breaking axles, Jeeps are
 notorious for weak axles and often clutch binding when they are
 "crossed-up", which is also due to their flexy frames.  You will notice
 that any picture of a domestic truck off-road that the beds flex
 separate from the cabs, often the bed hits the back of the cab, all due
 to to heavy, unboxed C-frames.
 I'm not saying that a domestic vehicle isn't worth buying or can't be
 made a very good trail vehicle--I'm just saying that I know they have
 some features that are not found in Toyotas.  Follow the body lines of
 my truck from the front to back while it's
 "crossed up", and you will find that no frame bending is going on.  I
 can still use my clutch even!
 Oh boy, I think I opened a can of worms with this one...
 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
 Ken Emanuel                     Emanuel@csus.edu
 '87 Xtra Cab SR5    (22R-E)
 http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
 *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 97 17:27:44 -0600
 From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
 Subject: headers for sale
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>From: Jack Alford >To: >I saw your ad for the stock headers you have for sale and>was wondering if your headers would fit my 1984 non-turbo>heads. I realize I'd have to cut off and weld up the piece that>attaches to the turbo but a small problem to pay for a set of>headers if they would work ?
 So Jack was this ment to go to the list??? (just kidding!) - You do know that the
 header for the turbo is going to be real short, since the turbo sits right below
 the manifold.  They probably wouldn't give great performance on a NA engine tho,
 since the design is a compromise because of space.... Now if you're planning on
 turboing your engine - go for it - they're probably the best bet for using a
 different turbo, since the flange can be cut & welded to go to a more standard
 turbo (to3's, etc.)
 The best bet for making these work for a non-turbo application would be to get a
 matching flange from someone like Turbonetics or Turbo City that mates to the
 header collector, then run the exhaust from there.
 If you aren't going to buy them, let me know - I'm thinking of building a turbo
 22RE from NON factory parts.
 - - Brian
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:16:48 -0500
 From: Beavis  Subject: Headgasket
 To: Toyota 4x4 Digest  I just picked up my '91 P/U from Toyota today and boy was I surprised!
 The technician doing the work even cleaned the whole engine compartment
 ... so all the baked on clay and grease is gone.
 Anyway my 3.0L V6 is now a bored out V6 ... to 3.3L, new over-sized
 pistons, rings, bearings ... all covered by Toyota.  It cost them about
 $3500 to do it.
 What I did pay for (kinda) was at a great price.  This is all that I was
 supposed to pay for:
 Water pump
 Timing Belt
 Both Timing Belt Tensioners
 Valve Seals
 AC/PS/ALT belts
 Major Tune Up
 I only payed $446.97 (including labor) for ALL of this.  I even have the
 cool NEW red coolant.
 The tech quoted me at $1000 for all of this ... he kinda charged the
 Valve seals to Toyota (heh).  It's great when ya only have to pay $40
 for a Timing Belt replacement & $50 total for all of the labor.
 My Toy now runs like new ... and the engine has a nice purrrrrr to it.
 I like the increase horsepower & compression.
 Just thought I'd add my experience to the headgasket saga.
 - --
 Doug Berger
 ------------------------------
 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:25:33 -0500 (EST)
 From: Toy4x4s@aol.com
 Subject: head interchangability?????
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 Ok... I told you all about my BIG blunder about toasting the 22RE engine in
 the 85 4Runner. If it really matters... this engine was the one that was in
 the 85 4x4 truck. The mfr date is March 85. The truck is a Ca emission
 equipped vehicle, the 4Runner is FED emissions...
 To try and see how much damage is done we first took out the spark plugs.
 they were all wet. When one was taken out it actually shot water/antifreeze
 out. We cranked the engine over and water was pumping out of all 4 cylinders.
 There was NO oil mixed in. Also, when we pulled the dipstick, the oil was
 normal there too... nothing mixed in. So this tells us the head is probably
 cracked... warped and who knows what else... Pulled the head, and head gasket
 was fine, and as suspected... all cylinders full of water. I called my trusty
 machine shop guy and told him the above... I asked him if "generally" a head
 can be fixed. He said for the cost involved, you'd be better off getting
 another head. He suggests a good one from a wrecker and have it redone. BTW,
 we are not going for performance here... Funds are VERY limited and we only
 want to spend what's needed to get it going again...
 Please help me out here and answer these questions so that when i begin my
 calliing around quest tomorrow I don't sound so stupid.
 QUESTION #1
 does the head have to be from an EFI engine?
 #2
 does the head HAVE to be from an 85? If not, what year spans can i use?
 #3
 I know the blocks on 84 22R's are taller.... does this affect the head also?
 Meaning... if I use an 84 head, will it go ok with my 85 block?
 #4
 Now, playing devils advocate... IF the block is bad too and both need
 replacing, what year span can I use for a complete engine transplant?
 It'd be nice to get a later year engine with lower mileage, as opposed to an
 engine from an 85 with invariably high mileage.
 #5
 Does the head and or whole engine have to come out of a 4x4 truck, or can it
 be out of a car, 2wd truck or whatever? What kind of Toyotas had 22R's or
 RE's...
 #6
 Is the wrecking yard going to ask for a rebuildable core in exchange for
 either a head or engine?
 Comment here... Does an estimate of $835 seem high for a complete master kit
 and all related rebuild machining on block and whatever? the master kit was
 like $425 alone. Also... the guy will be balancing/blueprinting the engine
 too... This price is based on us disassembling everything, then after all
 machining and whatever is done... we have to assemble it all with the new
 parts. My husband thinks this is way high. I don't... i know this guy is
 EXCELLENT and really knows his stuff... very good rep in town!
 Thanks!!!
 June Bennett
 TLCA 2942
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:48:19 -0600
 From: breeze@cysource.com (Jeffrey Delzer)
 Subject: I did a bad thing too
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> From: Sheldon Gardner > Subject: I did a bad thing too>> Don't feel too bad, a few years back when I came back from Korea I got stationed in Whicita. So needing a car I> bought myself a 87 mustang 5.0. I changed all the fluids as soon as I got it home, Mind you I live in South> West Florida. I was leaving the next morning and didn't have the time or inclination to get some antifreeze so> I thought I would flush the old raditor fluid and replace it with water. Well the car ran great all the way> there about 1600 miles. Got there parked it went to sleep happy woke up; ( oops!!!!)  it get's cold freezing> cold duh!!! my bad, cracked that motor right in half. I had the car for all of about a week. So others have> done very silly things your not the only one:)>> Sheldon> sgard@flnet.com
 What the heck??? Were your freeze plugs welded in or something?
 Jeff Delzer
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:07:20 -0800
 From: "Sandy and Terry"  Subject: Leather in a Taco?
 To:  FWIW NUMMI is evaluating a proto leather seat in the Tacoma.  If it goes
 into production it would be an option for the SR5.  Volume would be
 extremely low.  The current SR5 sport seats are only 3% of total production,
 leather would be even less.  Who would want leather in a truck?  Besides,
 the new Tacos are already expensive.
 Terry Johnson
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 20:04:34 -0700
 From: Rob Boyle  Subject: None
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Scott Muir wrote:>> Joel Cooper wrote:>>       I have an 85 xtra cab and ...My brakes dont seem to stop all that well. ...>> it seems to lock up the front wheels very easily.>> David wrote:>>unhook the rear brake arm lever and tie it up under the bed of the truck.>> This solved my problem of front lock-up.>> Joel, do you use your parking brake?  If you don't, your rear> pads may simply out of adjustment.  The adjuster is automatic,> but I believe you still have to help it a bit with the Parking> Brake.  The adjuster may be malfunctioning too.>> 2nd: I know I am in the minority here, but I don't believe in> the 'tie up the bypass spring' solution.  The LSBV was designed> as part of the truck and its there for a reason.  You 4Runner> guys may be able to get away with this, with the extra weight in> the back, but I still see this as invitation to disaster. Rear-wheel> lockup on a pickup can be a pretty hairy experience.>> I have in the past, probed for advice on this subject and I always get> the 'tie it up' line without any substance to back it up.>> So please, someone, convice me this is an actual solution without using> the line 'i tried it and it seems to work fine.'  This is not sound> advice when talking about braking systems.
 Scott, I''ve done this on my 4runner and it seems....... but seriously I
 think even completely tied up the front wheels lock up before the back
 ones, at least this is the case on my 4runner. the answer lies in real
 world testing. tie it up there and then slam on the brakes doin 50 see
 what happens.
 Rob
 85 4runner
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:42:41 -0800 (PST)
 From: Jonathan Albrecht  Subject: Pro Comp and BIG tires
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Okay, one of my friend's wants to build a monster.. and we talked about
 it a bunch, but I'd really, really like to get everyone's imput on this.
 Sorry if this ends up being another long post.  (please reply if you've
 got the time).
 The truck:  Currently it's a 1990 x-cab with a 2" body, add-a-leaf,
 t-bars up 1", 33x12.50 bfg muds, 15x8's and regular bushwacker flares
 (not cutouts). 22R-E   It's IFS too (duh).
 His uses:  Driving around town and 4xing.  No rocks, mostly mud, snow
 and baja type.  Needs to be reliable, but doesn't need to be that good a
 daily driver--he works accross the street from his house.
 What he wants:  the biggest, loudest coolest looking toyota for the
 least cash.
 Here's what he wants to do:  get a pro-comp stage II (4") leave the
 t-bars up 1 inch, and either get the pro-comp blocks or buy some new
 springs for the back (any suggestions?).  He's willing to swap up to 3"
 body lift too.
 For gears, he want's 5.71's.  Can you re-use the stock carrier with
 these?
 For wheels, he was planning on some okay (around $100 each) aluminum
 15x10's.  Any recommendations of brands (either to get or to avoid)?
 For tires.. oh boy.  He's not sure, but sorta narrowed it down to the
 following:
 35x16 Boggers
 35x15.50 TSL-SX
 38x14.50 TSL-SX
 38.5x16 TSL
 First question.. will any of these even fit?  It doesn't have to allow
 100% travel, but it should have enough that he can get most of the
 travel.  Rubbing noises are okay.. broken flares aren't.
 Also, I know these are all bias tires.  We talked about maybe a swamper
 radial (like the 36x14.50 or 38x15.50) but he decided that he really
 just wants to build something that's just as 'cool' (to him) as he can
 afford.  At this point in his life, he doesn't need a good daily
 driver.. it doesn't even need to be all that practical.  So that's why
 he's sorta 'avoiding' the radials.
 Next question.. is he insane to consider running any of these tires?  I
 know they're loud as all all hell (which he wants) and probably won't
 balance out perfectly (which he thinks is acceptable) but will his truck
 actually still be reliable with any of these?  He isn't that hard on
 it.. but still.  I bet these are all really heavy tires.  Anybody know
 offhand how much they way?  I know my friend's 31x12.50 thornbirds (on
 the same wheels as mine) way almost exactly the same as my 35" bfg's.
 Interco makes some heavy tires!
 He does plan to keep the 33's mounted up for winter or road trip use
 though.
 Any recommendations, thoughts, ect would be appreciated.  If you think
 this is totally stupid idea, that's fine too.  I'll just be passing
 these onto him as I get them..
 Thanks a lot!
 Jonathan Albrecht
 albr9619@uidaho.edu
 http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 19:01:15 -0500 (EST)
 From: TTaylor709@aol.com
 Subject: Rim size?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 I am getting ready to buy rims for my 93 xcab.  I have 31x10.5 tires and no
 lift.  I don't know if I should buy 15x7 or 15x8 rims.  I could use some
 recommendations and pros and cons of each.  Thanks
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:40:15 -0800 (PST)
 From: Chris Geiger  Subject: Rim size?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 If you are planning to stay with the 31" tires, I say stay with 7" wheels
 if you plan to use 33" tires in the future you may want to buy 8" wheels.
 Stay away from rims with a 3.5" backspacing, If you don't use  4.5"
 wheels the tires will stick out on the wheel wells and you truck will
 look funny. But I guess some people like funny, Mickey Mouse is still in
 business
 Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html>   I am getting ready to buy rims for my 93 xcab.  I have 31x10.5 tires and no> lift.  I don't know if I should buy 15x7 or 15x8 rims.  I could use some> recommendations and pros and cons of each.  Thanks
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:09:47 -0600
 From: "Clarissa & Simon"  Subject: safety cancel switch
 To:  When l was in the lumber camp in the mountains of the rainforest of
 Malaysia,when parked on an incline,we just put the truck in lowrange
 4WD,hit the clutch start cancel switch and start the truck without stepping
 on the clutch,the truck will start and go uphill at the same time.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:12:43 -0800 (PST)
 From: Jonathan Albrecht  Subject: Stuck springs
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Heya!
 We've got some problems and were wondering if anyone has any ideas.
 On my friends rusty '86 we can't get the rear springs off.  Or more to
 the point, we can't get the forward bolt out of of the spring.  Here's
 what we've tried:
 First we soaked everything down with liquid wrench.  We did this every
 week or so for a month or more in advance.
 When it came time to pull the springs, we took off the shackle end of
 the spring first, and supported the axle.  So there wasn't really any
 weight on the spring eye or bushing.
 Then we took the nut off the bolt, and tried to pull the bolt itself.
 It wouldn't budge, so we hooked a big breaker bar up to it, and managed
 to turn the bolt.  We kept turning it until it was loose enough to turn
 with a 1/2" socket wrench.  We continued to turn that sucker (both
 counterclockwise and clockwise) while spraying it with lots of liquid
 wrench.  After about 5 minutes of this, it was looser... but still
 really in there tight.  Next we tried smacking the threaded end with a
 maul, but all this didn't do a darn thing (we put the nut over the end
 so we wouldn't wreck the threads).  Then we tried making a press.
 For the press, basically, we took a monster 'c' clamp and put one end of
 the clamp against the threaded part of the bolt and then we put a hug
 deep set socket over the head of the bolt.  We put the other side of the
 'c' clamp on top of that socket.  We tried tightening it down, but all
 it did was get really tight.. eventually it'd get so tight that you
 couldn't tighten it any more without the c-clamp working itself off the
 socket.
 And then gave up, and just put the thing back together.
 This weekend (going home for break--YIPEEE!) we're gonna try this again.
 Any ideas at all?!  I'm thinking we're gonna need to take a hacksaw at
 the bolt.. anybody ever try this?  Looks like it'll be a real PITA to
 fit the saw in there, and still have room to cut it.
 thanks,
 Jonathan Albrecht
 albr9619@uidaho.edu
 http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:13:54 -0600
 From: El Manalo  Subject: Subject: "Safety Cancel" Switch
 To: toy4x4@tlca.org
 I think Ed Ruf was asking what this is really used for - I saw some
 responses but they may not have directly answered his question: I
 remember reading in a 4x4 magazine that sometimes when your caught
 in a real bind and even 4x4 low is still not enough to get you out, the
 torque that the starter motor has can help lurch the truck over whatever
 obstacle you may be stuck in. You would shut the engine down, engage
 the truck in 1st gear do not touch the clutch and turn the key with the
 safety cancel switch on,  the starter motor has very low gearing and
 may have the 'leverage' it needs to get you out. That's what I think this
 switch is for....anyways, my .02 cents.
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:35:55 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: Subject: "Safety Cancel" Switch
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 At 06:13 PM 11/19/97 -0600, you wrote:>I think Ed Ruf was asking what this is really used for - I saw some>responses but they may not have directly answered his question: I>remember reading in a 4x4 magazine that sometimes when your caught>in a real bind and even 4x4 low is still not enough to get you out, the>torque that the starter motor has can help lurch the truck over whatever>obstacle you may be stuck in. You would shut the engine down, engage>the truck in 1st gear do not touch the clutch and turn the key with the>safety cancel switch on,  the starter motor has very low gearing and>may have the 'leverage' it needs to get you out. That's what I think this>switch is for....anyways, my .02 cents.>> I dont see how the starter would have more torque than the motor.  Maybe you
 mean if you stall in a bind and must not roll back due to cliff or other
 obstacle then it could be used.
 An automatic would not need it since you can two-foot the pedals.  I cant
 reach my brake with me hand and still work the gas and clutch. ;)
 Steve Capuano			1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
 capuano@hypercon.com		31x10.50x15 Wrangler RT/S
 Houston, Texas			Rear LockRight  K&N filter
 Edelbrock headers
 NRA lifetime member		Dynomax 2.5" cat back
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:18:07 -0800
 From: Brandon Miller  Subject: Subject: "Safety Cancel" Switch
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I dont see how the starter would have more torque than the motor.  Maybe you> mean if you stall in a bind and must not roll back due to cliff or other> obstacle then it could be used.>> An automatic would not need it since you can two-foot the pedals.> I cant> reach my brake with me hand and still work the gas and clutch. ;)
 To me all wheeling involves a good driver, meaning knowing how to use
 all the pedals and how to start the truck in gear and not wear out the
 clutch in an hour.  When I think of every time I have been wheeling,
 other than the mud drags, I started my truck with the clutch out.  In
 the snow I go slow in the deep and stay on top.  If I clutch it the
 truck just sinks.  In the rocks you'll wear the clutch out in minutes,
 not to mention the dents from rolling back.  I think it's all control
 and if you have to use the clutch you need practice.  The more "slow"
 wheeling ya do, wether it is in the rocks, the snow, or even in some
 types of mud you get a better feel of how to handle the terrain each
 time and for me that means not using the clutch unless I need to clean
 out the carb or something (that is why my low range is 108:1)> I cant> reach my brake with me hand and still work the gas and clutch. ;)
 Maybe I don't understand this line but if you are on a steep hill you
 need to use one foot (the same foot) to control the brake and the gas,
 and the other for the clutch, where does the hand come into play?
 I believe the point of the switch is so you don't accidently start the
 vehicle in gear and have it lurch forward when you don't want it to (in
 high range).  I suppose accidents happen but it is second nature for me
 to put in the clutch when I start my truck.  I suppose accidents happen,
 but it seems like it should be set up so that the safety features only
 comes into effect when the vehicle is in high range, or two wheel drive.
 - -->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Miller                     email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
 Sacramento, CA                            millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
 url:
 http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb
 TLCA #6013>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:47:39 -0800
 From: Barney McNamara  Subject: Sway Bar Quick Disconnect?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Corey wrote:>I cuurently have a lifted '83 with 33's and was wondering if a quick>disconnect like Eric's IFS design would be good for my truck.
 Brandon replied:>They came off becuase they are useless and limit suspension.
 That is true in the low-speed world of rock crawling. The sway bars
 do help prevent body lean while driving on pavement at speed (or what
 passes for speed in these beasts.) I drive my truck 50 miles a day,
 on pavement, and much prefer the handling with the sway bar in place.
 I am planning to implement Eric's design on my '83 as soon as I have
 time and motivation. I did not realize his design was for an IFS, as
 it will work fine on my solid axle.
 ______________________________________________________________
 Barney McNamara              JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed
 ( barney@flowpoint.com )     stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
 Santa Cruz, Ca.              8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
 homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm
 ______________________________________________________________
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 18:06:37 -0800
 From: Brandon Miller  Subject: Sway Bar Quick Disconnect?
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 Wanna race :)
 Come on, do you think my truck is just a rock crawler?  Most people that
 have ridden with me won't make that mistake twice.  I noticed that
 because of the 4" lift the sway bay uses extensions and I won't get
 technical but I think that there effect is almost negligable, the torque
 rod takes more of the lateral force.  I've thought about re-implementing
 them but it wouldn't be with the lift extensions.  I drive a lot of
 miles and do a lot of high speed cornering and I really haven't noticed
 a difference without it.  I tried my truck for a while without the
 torque rod (just put it back on) and I think it does make a BIG
 difference and it's not coming off again.
 I think all the quick disconnect ideas are great but the setup needs to
 me modified first (when lifted). I'd like to hear if anyone else with a
 straight axle is running the bar still, and if anyone has modified it.
 Barney McNamara wrote:>> Corey wrote:>>I cuurently have a lifted '83 with 33's and was wondering if a quick>>disconnect like Eric's IFS design would be good for my truck.>> Brandon replied:>>They came off becuase they are useless and limit suspension.>> That is true in the low-speed world of rock crawling. The sway bars> do help prevent body lean while driving on pavement at speed (or what> passes for speed in these beasts.) I drive my truck 50 miles a day,> on pavement, and much prefer the handling with the sway bar in place.> I am planning to implement Eric's design on my '83 as soon as I have> time and motivation. I did not realize his design was for an IFS, as> it will work fine on my solid axle.> ______________________________________________________________> Barney McNamara              JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed> ( barney@flowpoint.com )     stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift> Santa Cruz, Ca.              8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts> homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm> ______________________________________________________________
 - -->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brandon Miller                     email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
 Sacramento, CA                            millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
 url:
 http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb
 TLCA #6013>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:44:33 -8 GMT
 From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"  Subject: valance
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 talking about valances, the one off my 90 4runner is trashed.  it provided me
 with enough audible warning (read: i can hear the thin material crunching,
 and i know i'm too close to an obstable...) and now it's time for it to go.
 i tried to remove it by just unscrewing it from the bumper.  but it was such
 a PITA that i think you hafta remove the entire bumper first, then remove the
 valance and put the bumper back on.  is there something faster and easier?
 - -----------------------
 Leo G. Divinagracia III
 ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:53:41 -1000 (HST)
 From: Eric Johnson  Subject: valance
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Leo G. Divinagracia III wrote:> talking about valances, the one off my 90 4runner is trashed.  it provided me> with enough audible warning (read: i can hear the thin material crunching,> and i know i'm too close to an obstable...) and now it's time for it to go.>> i tried to remove it by just unscrewing it from the bumper.  but it was such> a PITA that i think you hafta remove the entire bumper first, then remove the> valance and put the bumper back on.  is there something faster and easier?
 When I yanked off my valance on my '87, I wound up drilling the bolts
 since they were soft and the phillips heads stripped
 easily. I built  a small valance out of some diamondplate
 to replace it.
 ej@off-road.com   http://www.off-road.com/~ej
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:37:41 -0600
 From: Steve Capuano  Subject: valance
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 At 04:44 PM 11/19/97 GMT, you wrote:>talking about valances, the one off my 90 4runner is trashed.  it provided me>with enough audible warning (read: i can hear the thin material crunching,>and i know i'm too close to an obstable...) and now it's time for it to go.>>i tried to remove it by just unscrewing it from the bumper.  but it was such>a PITA that i think you hafta remove the entire bumper first, then remove the>valance and put the bumper back on.  is there something faster and easier?>>>----------------------->Leo G. Divinagracia III>ldivinag@csuhayward.edu> one word  TORCH>>>> Steve Capuano			1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
 capuano@hypercon.com		31x10.50x15 Wrangler RT/S
 Houston, Texas			Rear LockRight  K&N filter
 Edelbrock headers
 NRA lifetime member		Dynomax 2.5" cat back
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:29:47 -0600
 From: Anna Gerbrandt  Subject: Wheel Travel
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
 All this talk about wheel travel has me wondering.  How much travel
 should my stock 83 have, and how is it measured?  I read in one magazine
 that solid axle Toys should have something like 6" or so.  I
 disconnected my swaybar, and my wheels don't travel much more than they
 used to, but the ride is a little softer.  What is the best way to
 measure wheel travel without a forklift anyway?  I have one comment
 about stuff I've read, about wheel travel.  Someone said that most
 wheelers won't notice wheel travel, that's probably true.  The people
 that will are racing over conditions like in Baja or rock crawlers.
 Rob Groeger
 1983 stock SR5
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:54:39 -0600
 From: breeze@cysource.com (Jeffrey Delzer)
 Subject: Whoop$!
 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> From: Jimmy Tom > Subject: Whoop$!>> I was just about to change the oil in my well worn '92 pickup and had to> move my roommate's BRAND SPANKIN' NEW 98 'runner out of the driveway.  I> guess I got too excited over the leather seats, CD player, etc (typical> mall'runner stuff) and didn't notice the driver's side mirror aquainting> itself w/ the cinder block fence next to me as I was backing out. Doh!> (BTW, the new sound system really cranked...so I didn't notice until> at least a foot of the wall had scraped the mirror.)  Anyways, the damage> is limited only to the outer mirror housing (plastic), but is that> available as a separate piece?  Man, I don't want to be shelling out for a> whole new assy. since this one is a power unit.  Any dealer techs out> there know of the availability of this piece and maybe the price?  Or does> anybody have any suggestions on taking long, black plastic streaks off a> wall? ;)  Thanks all.>> - -------------------------------------------------------------------------> Jimmy Tom  I had to replace the electric remote control rear view mirrors on my 94
 SR5 P/U, which cost about $480 for both. They're chrome, though, so they
 might cost more than the black ones, I don't know. Damn vandals....
 Jeff Delzer
 ------------------------------
 Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 17:37:44 -0800
 From: Scott Muir  To: "'Toy List'"  Joel Cooper wrote:>       I have an 85 xtra cab and ...My brakes dont seem to stop all that well. ...> it seems to lock up the front wheels very easily.
 David wrote:>unhook the rear brake arm lever and tie it up under the bed of the truck.> This solved my problem of front lock-up.
 Joel, do you use your parking brake?  If you don't, your rear
 pads may simply out of adjustment.  The adjuster is automatic,
 but I believe you still have to help it a bit with the Parking
 Brake.  The adjuster may be malfunctioning too.
 2nd: I know I am in the minority here, but I don't believe in
 the 'tie up the bypass spring' solution.  The LSBV was designed
 as part of the truck and its there for a reason.  You 4Runner
 guys may be able to get away with this, with the extra weight in
 the back, but I still see this as invitation to disaster. Rear-wheel
 lockup on a pickup can be a pretty hairy experience.
 I have in the past, probed for advice on this subject and I always get
 the 'tie it up' line without any substance to back it up.
 So please, someone, convice me this is an actual solution without using
 the line 'i tried it and it seems to work fine.'  This is not sound
 advice when talking about braking systems.
 ------------------------------
 The views expressed in Toy4x4 are those of the individual authors only.
 Be sure to check out the OFFROAD MAILING LIST.
 Subscription requests can be sent to: offroad-request@off-road.com
 End of Toy4x4 Digest
 ******************************