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Toyota 4x4 Digest

Publish date: Mar 25, 1997
By: ORC STAFF
Source: Off-Road.com

Toy4x4 Digest Tue, 25 Mar 97 00:30:02 (HST) Volume 1 : Issue 109
Today's Topics:
"Bad Dealer" stories
32" tires (2 msgs)
84 Clutch Probs.
97' T-100 Fast Idle
Addendum (2 msgs)
Alaska Exhaust Laws (2 msgs)
Bio
Brake Calipers
Cool Yota (2 msgs)
crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires (4 msgs)
diznynomiznax (2 msgs)
Electrtical Problems (2 msgs)
How low do you go? (2 msgs)
Listing
mo' gas can, mo' gas can, mo' gas can!
NOVA Trails
Oh darn (3 msgs)
on-board air 82 toy 4x4 parts PLEASE HELP
performance exhaust
power antenna
Snatching a vehicle
Stiff Ride in your Toy
Timing chain
Toy4x4 Digest V1 #108
Truetrac limited slip differentials (2 msgs)
Used p/u need some advice (5 msgs)
V-6 head gasket on Tacoma (3 msgs)
V6 Query (2 msgs)
want to swap gears
Wheel bearings - thanks!
Wierd 4Runners (Pre 84)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:13:04 MST7MDT
From: "Alan Anderson" Subject:
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Nick wrote :>I'll ask this again: what's the correct center-to-center length for>a>factory torque rod (79-83)?>I didn't respond earlier on this, since I have an '84, but it should>be>the same as an '83. Without removing the rod itself, or the skid>plate,>this is not an exact measurement. Its about 14 to 14.5 inches .
I> can be more exact by removing the skid plate, if you need it.
If it does any good I have an '85 that i have a new rod
for...wreckin' yard spcl.....the ninny that had the truck before me
was runnig without it....I now know why... stock doesn't fit?
ANY IDEAS? I can measure it and get back to you...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:47:19 -0700 (MST)
From: Knowles Ken Subject: "Bad Dealer" stories
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
When I went to buy my 4Runner, brand new 1993, I negotiated a price of
$20,000. with the salesman. When I went back to the finance office the
price had mysteriously jumped to $20,800! When I bocked at this, the
finance guy had three suggestions: 1) I should come up with more cash for
the down payment, 2) I should give them a false address so as to avoid
city sales tax or 3) I should give up some options on the truck!!! I
suggested we call the owner, he had two more suggestions: 4) he would
split the difference, i.e. I could pay $20,400, or 5) I could walk out of
there with no truck. I wanted the truck *so* bad I went for option 4. When
a friend later told me (after I bought the truck) that I could get a copy
of the dealer's invoice from CompuServe I found out that $20,000 was their
cost, so I didn't feel so bad, but it sure is a stupid way to negotiate.
No, I never called BBB, but I did complain to Toyota. They had someone
from the dealer call me. I told her the story and never heard a word after
that.
As far as service goes, I always thought they did a good job *until* I
took my truck to an independent mechanic. I was getting more and more
irritated with their condescending attitude. They treated me like an idiot
and insisted that the problems with my truck (common problems) were all
due to my poor driving habits. When my bumper-to-bumper warranty expired,
I finally switched to a mechanic near my house with a good reputation.
They found a couple of problems that the dealer probably knew about, but
didn't mention (torn tie rod boot, leaky clutch hose). The mechanic had a
theory that the dealer made more money if I paid to get these fixed than
if they did the work under warranty and so were counting on me coming back
later. I don't know, could be true. He had a lot to say on the subject.
- --
Ken Knowles National Snow & Ice Data Center
knowles@kryos.colorado.edu University of Colorado
voice: 303-492-0644 Campus Box 449
fax: 303-492-2468 Boulder, CO 80309-0449
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 00:35:27 -0600 (CST)
From: gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg S. Francis)
Subject: 32" tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>> And I'd like to repost the question about 32's on stock alloy rims,>> and whether they will rub, and if so where and how bad. This would be on a>> 4Runner.>>What I hear is that you can fit a 32" fine. I plan to get some 32">mud-terrains for my 88 'Runner as soon as I can afford them, and they'll>have to go on my stock SR5 rims, as least for now. I have a 2" lift,>and after talking with people, I expect no rubbing, even when they're>crammed up in the wheel well. With no lift you might get minimal>rubbing, but we're talking extreme articulation. With 33" no questions,>they will rub.>>Obviously I'm not talking from experience here. This is just what I've>heard from the experienced people.>>Scott>--
I believe that the SR5 rims are 7"? I have aftermarket 15x7s and the
people who sold me my tires *strongly* advised agianst 32x11.5s claiming
that the sidewall would roll and weaken and that the tread would wear
prematurely. They even said something about voiding the tire warrenty, but
that may have been hot air. Was I lied to?
- -Greg
Greg S. Francis
University of Texas @ Austin
School of Architecture
gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:51:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: 32" tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>>What I hear is that you can fit a 32" fine. I plan to get some 32">>mud-terrains for my 88 'Runner as soon as I can afford them, and they'll>>have to go on my stock SR5 rims, as least for now. I have a 2" lift,>>and after talking with people, I expect no rubbing, even when they're>>crammed up in the wheel well. With no lift you might get minimal>>rubbing, but we're talking extreme articulation. With 33" no questions,>>they will rub.>>Scott> I believe that the SR5 rims are 7"? I have aftermarket 15x7s and the> people who sold me my tires *strongly* advised agianst 32x11.5s claiming> that the sidewall would roll and weaken and that the tread would wear> prematurely. They even said something about voiding the tire warrenty, but> that may have been hot air. Was I lied to?> -Greg
Not necessarily. I almost couldn't talk the tire shop to mount 32's on my
15x8's (he thought I needed at least a 10" rim) but the book proved him
wrong, and he mounted 'em up. If the book by the manufacturer says that
the minimum rim is a 15x8, than you could be voiding the warranty.
I did notice though, that BFG for instance recommends an 8.5-10" rim with
their 33x12.50's. And plenty of people run them on 15x8's.
Yes, running a tire on a really narrow rim (below manufactures spech) is a
bit harder on it. The center tends to wear out faster. The 31x10.50's
that came on my p/u with stock 15x6's had about 40,000 miles on them, and
while the center was worn a bit more than the rest, they still held up
pretty good. If you messed with the pressure you may not even have that
problem. Also, as a tire get's taller, you can get away with more. Some
people run 39.5x18" tires on 15x10's, and they look fine (no personal
experiences here, just what I've seen in the parking lots), and not at all
like the rim is too narrow. Also (FWIW) that one Lund 'show' S-10 run's
31x14.50 cepeks on 15x8's. ..Don't know how good of an idea this is...but
it does show what you can get away with.. One guy in town that I talked to
a bit was running 32x12.50 mickey's on stock 15x7's, and had never had a
problem, though they did look a little too wide for his rims.
Anyway, FWIW.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:30:13 -0500
From: critchpw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu
Subject: 84 Clutch Probs.
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I'd have to go with the flow on this one. Sounds to me like you're getting
jerked around by this shop. If the clutch only slips in warm weather,
that leads me to believe that something (press. plate, flywheel) is a little
out of spec. It could be that there is some condensation of some sort that
only shows up when the weather is warm enough. That's a far out guess, tho.
The slave cylinder has nothing to do with a slipping clutch. If it was bad,
you would have known it because there would have been *no* petal pressure
at all, and the tranny would have locked up in gear (I've done this). SO-
that means that something else is outta whack. My first guess is that the
flywheel was turned too much. That would increase the distace the clutch has to travel for it to engage.
As for the pressure plate and disk, did you put in a Centerforce, or did the
shop just say that the disk was "machined to Centerforce spec"? There's
a big difference between the two. If you get sick of dealing with these guys,
places like Parts America and CarQuest offer new kits for around $130, and
you can be satisfied that everything is within the correct tolerances.
Good luck,
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:12:53 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: 97' T-100 Fast Idle
To: " - (052)jetriple (a) collins.rockwell.com" Jet:
I wonder if a block warmer would add enough heat into the system for a faster
warmup?
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:05:05 -0500
From: WartHog Subject: Addendum
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Who here can watch the clutch throw out fork wobble perceptably?
Mark
rheschel@bright.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:42:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Addendum
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, WartHog wrote:> Who here can watch the clutch throw out fork wobble perceptably?>> Mark>> rheschel@bright.net
I could. Turned out the ball joint that it pivots on had broken in half.
Cheap fix (8 bucks) but a huge PITA. You gotta pull the tranny.
I checked my friends' trucks (when mine was broken) and there's didn't
move at all. On mine, when I pushed the clutch in all the way, the fork
would kinda wobble upward about 1" or so. It also made a pretty loud
creaking noise too. If you pull back the boot around the fork, and use a
small flashlight you should be able to see what's going on in there.
Also, if you mess with it too much, you may need to rebleed the system
too. Pretty easy though...Ask Mr. Martin... We did his in the rain, in a
parking lot in about 15 minutes or so.. :)
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:46:10 -0800
From: Scott Muir Subject: Alaska Exhaust Laws
To: "'Toy List'" Originally by Jonathan Albrecht Anyway the cop went on to say that
Alaska recently passed some ordinance that requires that all vehicles run
the 'stock' exhaust system. He went on to inform my friend that he has 10
days to fix his exhaust system, and take it in to the police hq. for
inspection.
Did anyone get anywhere with this one?? It does sound like there are a lot of holes in it.
I don't know anything about american law. I would be interested in knowing what
they define as 'Stock' and how exactly they are qualified to decide if a system meets
that criteria. Is there a model year start for this? How would this affect muffler shops like
Midas and Speedy?
I hope your friend gets confirmation on this if he plans on making the
'suggested changes'. Without the ticket he 'should have' been issued he
really just has the cop's word.
Then he went back to his car to get his ticket book. A
minute later he returned, saying that it was Paul's lucky day; the guy had
forgotten his ticket book at the office. He went on to warn my friend
that the next time he saw Paul's truck he *would* pull him over and write
him a ticket for the exhaust.
I would go so far as to wonder if the cop had gone back to check
the oridinance and couldn't pin it down. It sounds suspicious anyway.
Left his book at the office?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:25:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Alaska Exhaust Laws
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Scott Muir wrote:> the 'stock' exhaust system. He went on to inform my friend that he has 10> days to fix his exhaust system, and take it in to the police hq. for> inspection.>> Did anyone get anywhere with this one?? It does sound like there are a lot of holes in it.> I don't know anything about american law. I would be interested in knowing what> they define as 'Stock' and how exactly they are qualified to decide if a system meets> that criteria. Is there a model year start for this? How would this affect muffler shops like> Midas and Speedy?
I don't have any idea. That's just what the cop said. I bet he's just
got something against loud trucks, and was making it up. Or didn't know
what he was talking about. Though Paul's truck is pretty loud. In 1st
and 2nd, it's like a datsun with open headers. In third pulling a long
grade (about .1% in his case ;) ) it sounds just like a bushplane in mid
take off. Gives you that 'deja-vu' airplane feeling when he climbs
long/steep hills..> I hope your friend gets confirmation on this if he plans on making the> 'suggested changes'. Without the ticket he 'should have' been issued he> really just has the cop's word.
Oh, he's not going to do anything about it until he get's a real ticket.
I wonder if this is that same cop that tried to nail me on my window tint
(failed) and then happended to give me a speeding ticket just a week
later..
There's a couple cool cops, like one with a ford half ton on 39" mickey's
(with glass packs no less) and another down the street with about 5 old
cars that he's always working on (mustangs and p/u's mostly). Some of the
cops aren't too great though.> I would go so far as to wonder if the cop had gone back to check> the oridinance and couldn't pin it down. It sounds suspicious anyway.> Left his book at the office?
Yeah something like that. I think my friend said he was checking out
something out at Auke Bay (where one of the offices is) and forgot it
there.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 09:34:13 +0200
From: Wally Parsons Subject: Bio
To: "'Toy4x4'" >---------->From: Toy4x4-Request[SMTP:toy4x4-request@tlca.org]>Sent: 20 March, 1997 08:12>To: Wally Parsons>Subject: Bio>>Personal Bio Info>>POST TO THE LIST ONLY>> toy4x4@tlca.org>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>>Name: Wally Parsons> City & State: Centurion, Gauteng Province>>Country: South Africa>>E-mail address: wally@logtek.co.za>>Toyota (s) year & model: Toyota Hilux DoubleCab 4x4, 1989>>Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?): N>>Age: 36>>Occupation: Project Manager>>Marital Status: Married> Hobbies: Tennis, 4x4 trails, welding, camping, across the border>excursions.> How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List: I think I picked>it up somewhere on offroad.com> General info about your vehicle, self, etc.: First of all, I am really
impressed with the response time with regards to the mailing list, and
the amount of info I have received. Keep the good work up.
Four years ago I bought this vechile second hand and at the time it was
in good condition and is still in good condition. My Hilux has been
fitted with a Cressida 2.8i motor which is a heck of an improvement in
terms of torque and speed on and offraod.. At the time all Hilux's were
fitted with a Toyota 2.2 motor, very under powered. In the past four
years I have visited neighbouring countries like Mozambuiq, Zimbabwe and>Botswana.
I am for ever upgrading my Hilux. Yesterday I fitted Black Daimond
shocks, imported from the States. I have been told this will improve the
offraod capability of my vechile.
For the moment this will have to do.
Cheers>> ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:02:50 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Brake Calipers
To: " - (052)Jughead (a) 141.com" > I also have a question about Jack Alford's article on the vented rotor> swap for '79-'85 solid axles. He said to use '81+ FJ40 rotors and '86> IFS calipers. I was wondering if there is any difference in the '86> calipers and my '92 calipers?
yup - the calipers are different
Also the V6 calipers were "bigger" than the 22REs
I haven an 88 - and its marked S12+2 or something like that
The later calipers have "ribs" in them
Also the "How to keep yer Yota alive" book mentions SEVERAL
caliper types from over the years
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:26:30 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Cool Yota
To: " - (052)albr9619 (a) uidaho.edu" > I wish they would make a '90-'95 type 4Runner with a removable rear roof,> coil spring/solid axle suspension and a good turbo diesel four banger. I> can't imagine this hurting sales or or increasing the cost to build them.> If done right, they could make it a lot cheaper I'd think.
This reminds me of that "ultimate yota" thread a while back...
I do believe the biggest impediments to this idea (from Yota's perspective)
1) profits too low (sell 4Runners for $$$ here - load em w/ luxo items)
2) diesels dont sell well in the US
3) most buyers want over priced station wagons - not 'core wheelers
You could always get a Landie Defender TDi.....
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:22:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Cool Yota
To: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 Ed.Wong@astramerck.com wrote:>> I wish they would make a '90-'95 type 4Runner with a removable rear roof,>> coil spring/solid axle suspension and a good turbo diesel four banger. I>> can't imagine this hurting sales or or increasing the cost to build them.>> If done right, they could make it a lot cheaper I'd think.>> This reminds me of that "ultimate yota" thread a while back...>> I do believe the biggest impediments to this idea (from Yota's perspective)> 1) profits too low (sell 4Runners for $$$ here - load em w/ luxo items)
They can still sell them loaded Also. We bought our '93 chevy with all
the good stuff, big engine, big tires, low gears, offroad package--but
with a regular seat, regular tranny, no ac, no power windows and stuff
like that, and vinyl floors. It cost about 15,000 new. I just checked out
the dealer, and a loaded 1/2 ton x-cab can run almost twice that. They
can sell base models cheap if they strip the right stuff.> 2) diesels dont sell well in the US
So, they don't have to *only* sell the diesel, just make it an option. It
may not be popular at first, but I'm sure they'd get enough interest to
make it profitable...or at least not loose money on it.> 3) most buyers want over priced station wagons - not 'core wheelers
Well, a truck like I mentioned would be plenty comfy. Look at the raves
the TJ got when it went independant. And the grand cherokees supposedly
ride great too. I know the regular cherokees do anyway...and those are
all solid axle.> You could always get a Landie Defender TDi.....
Yeah, but those are too expensive and don't have the same kinda of quality
or parts availability (in the US anyway).
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:22:27 +0000
From: David Booth Subject: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Here's another question for all the gear heads our there. It'll soon
be time to buy new tires. I want to put 31x10.50 BFG Mud Terrains on
my 89 V6. However, I can't afford to swap the 4.10 gears to 4.56 at
this time. I know that I'll lose power (about 8%), but I can live
with that. My first 4x4 was a Toyota 4 Cylinder and I didn't have a
big problem with the "lack" of power.
My big concern is losing the ability to rock crawl. I've often heard
this ability measured as a "Crawl Ratio", which is the product of the
T-Case ratio (2.57), the Axle ratio (4.10), and first gear (3.83).
With the V6 gearing and the 4.10 axles, the crawl ratio is 40.4. With
4.56s it is 44.9 and with 4.88 it is 48.0. Obviously 4.56 and 4.88
gears give a better crawl ratio.
Now, since the crawl ratio is unaffected by the tire size, I'm not
sure how the larger tires will affect my ability to crawl up and down
rocky terrain. Logic tells me that it will be an adverse effect.
However, if I air the tires down to 20 psi or so, then the tire
diameter will approach that of a 30" tires I currently have, which
seem to work pretty good now.
Any thoughts or experience would be appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:29:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Geiger Subject: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> Here's another question for all the gear heads our there. It'll soon> be time to buy new tires. I want to put 31x10.50 BFG Mud Terrains on> my 89 V6. However, I can't afford to swap the 4.10 gears to 4.56 at> this time. I know that I'll lose power (about 8%), but I can live> with that. My first 4x4 was a Toyota 4 Cylinder and I didn't have a> big problem with the "lack" of power.> Are you sure you have 4.10's, my 4Runner came with 225 tires , v6 and
4.30's . I found the 31" tires to work OK with those gears but the 4.56
would be better for those tires.
Chris Geiger http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:27:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, David Booth wrote:> My big concern is losing the ability to rock crawl. I've often heard> this ability measured as a "Crawl Ratio", which is the product of the> T-Case ratio (2.57), the Axle ratio (4.10), and first gear (3.83).> With the V6 gearing and the 4.10 axles, the crawl ratio is 40.4. With> 4.56s it is 44.9 and with 4.88 it is 48.0. Obviously 4.56 and 4.88> gears give a better crawl ratio.
For some reason nobody ever calc's the crawl ratio with the size of the
tires. I don't know why, it's pretty important.
For instance your stock crawl ratio (including the tire's, let's say 28"
diameter) is
40.4/(28 * pi) = .458:1 So for every revolution of the engine, your truck
moves forward .458"
With the 31's (let's say 30.5" diameter)
40.4/(30.5 * pi) = .421:1
Not a big difference, but the same deal as running about a 37:1 crawl
ratio with stock tires. (40.4 * 28/30.5)> Now, since the crawl ratio is unaffected by the tire size, I'm not> sure how the larger tires will affect my ability to crawl up and down> rocky terrain. Logic tells me that it will be an adverse effect.> However, if I air the tires down to 20 psi or so, then the tire> diameter will approach that of a 30" tires I currently have, which> seem to work pretty good now.
Well, the diamter might change to the same as before, but not necessarily
the *circumfrence*. The diameter is only used to find the circumfrence of
a pefectly round circle. An aired down tire isn't too round!
BUT, I should mention something else. When you air down, your
circumference does actually lessen. This is because the tire stretches (a
little bit) when it's fully inflated, and the way the tread contacts the
ground (all scruntched together versus pushed apart under high pressure).
The best way to figure all this out is with a piece of chalk and a tape
measure. Just mark your tire/the ground, drive forward one revolution,
and measure the distance it went. You might want to do this for both
sides, and do it a few times too.
This will give you a better idea of what kind of differences there will
be. One other thought...you might want to consider something like a
Marlin Crawler. They're kinda expensive, but considering what they can do
for your crawl ratio..
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:36:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: crawl ratio with 4.10 gears and 31" tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Chris Geiger wrote:>> Here's another question for all the gear heads our there. It'll soon>> be time to buy new tires. I want to put 31x10.50 BFG Mud Terrains on>> my 89 V6. However, I can't afford to swap the 4.10 gears to 4.56 at>> this time. I know that I'll lose power (about 8%), but I can live>> with that. My first 4x4 was a Toyota 4 Cylinder and I didn't have a>> big problem with the "lack" of power.>>> Are you sure you have 4.10's, my 4Runner came with 225 tires , v6 and> 4.30's . I found the 31" tires to work OK with those gears but the 4.56> would be better for those tires.
Do you have an auto?
As best I can remember, this is what the toyota brochure in '93 said:
4cyl manual: 4.10:1
4cyl auto: ~4.3:1
v6 manual: 4.10:1
v6 manual 31" tires: 4.56:1
v6 auto p225 tires ~4.3:1 (I think)
v6 auto 31" tires: 4.88:1 (not compatible with aftermarket gear sets
btw)
This applied for both 4Runners and p/u's.. Easiest way though (instead of
messing with id codes and stuff) is just to jack up the rear end, and have
someone count the driveshaft revolutions, and divide it with the amount of
tire revolutions (while you spin the tire). Multiply this number by two
with an open diff, or jack up both tires, and *don't* multiply by 2
with a locker. Don't know about LSD's.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:17:02 -0800 (PST)
From: PSHENG@SCUACC.SCU.EDU
Subject: diznynomiznax
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
someone asked about the dynomax muffler...I had my local muffler shop
replace my stock muffler w/ a super turbo, and it was barely louder
than stock. I didn't notice much in the way of horsepower improvement,
but then again I kept my stock exhaust plumbing (2" diameter I think) and
cat. I think the cheapest way to do it would be to get the dynomax
at pep boys and just have your local shop weld it on rather than getting
the whole setup from performance. I paid $62 for my muffler from the
nuffler shop and 30 bux to weld it on, but I bet you could get the
muffler cheaper from a parts store. If I were to do it over again,
I'd probably get the flowmaster- I could live with 30% more backpresure
in order to have it sound cool. my buddy had dynomax'es on his '69
olds 442, but he dumped im in favor of flowmasters, and it sounded a
LOT better... Of course the extra backpressure is less of a concern
when you have a 455 with a fat cam and a holley double pumper than
with the 22R...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:25:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: diznynomiznax
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 PSHENG@SCUACC.SCU.EDU wrote:> someone asked about the dynomax muffler...I had my local muffler shop> replace my stock muffler w/ a super turbo, and it was barely louder> than stock. I didn't notice much in the way of horsepower improvement,
snip> I'd probably get the flowmaster- I could live with 30% more backpresure> in order to have it sound cool. my buddy had dynomax'es on his '69> olds 442, but he dumped im in favor of flowmasters, and it sounded a> LOT better... Of course the extra backpressure is less of a concern
That's pretty weird. Every one that I've talked to said the Flowmaster
sounds like 'blowing wind' (not a fart, but you know...wind blowing
through a tube) and the dynomax is louder/better sounding. I've heard a
dynomax 'type' turbo muffler on a 20r with a header, and it sounded
awesome (if you like motorcycles..), and I've also heard the flowmaster on
that 283 v8. It kinda sucked...real quiet, with a bit of 'burble'/rumble
at idle. If you rev it though...nothing but a whooshing sound.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:03:54 +0500
From: Mike Subject: Electrtical Problems
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
The other day all my gauges stopped working along with the warning
lights. My "meter fuse " is not blown. Any suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:04:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Electrtical Problems
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Might check to see if the two or three connectors that plug into the
gauges are all plugged in. It's kinda hard to get to though..
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Mike wrote:> The other day all my gauges stopped working along with the warning> lights. My "meter fuse " is not blown. Any suggestions?> ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 97 14:58:32 PST
From: barney@flowpoint.com (Barney McNamara)
Subject: How low do you go?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I just got back from a short trip to Pismo Beach, my son was in a surf contest
down there, so I went along with the truck for a little cruising in the dunes.
I was a little disappointed in the traction from my new BFG All Terrains. They
are 31x10.50's on 15x8 wheels. The old tires were Uniroyal Laredos, also
31x10.50's. The old tires were worn, so I replaced them and my wheels a while
ago. I remember the first trip, I took the Uniroyals down to 12 lbs, and they
seemed to get me around OK. This trip, I took the BFG's down to 15 lbs, and
had a hell of a time getting up the dunes. I didn't want to let more air out,
to prevent them from coming off the rims. I normally run these at 38 lbs on the
street.
How low do you people take your tires?
I'm wondering if the stiff sidewalls on the BFG's hold up the tires too much,
reducing the traction in soft stuff. Any comments on the traction of BFG's
in sand?
The BFG's at 38 lbs seem to work great on the street. The old tires slipped
on wet streets, which is where I spend most of my time in the truck. I got
the BFG's because they seem so common, I figured they must be good tires.
Maybe they are just good road tires like the new Tacos/4Runners are good road
living rooms?
_____________________________________________________________
Barney McNamara 83 Toyota Short Bed
( barney@flowpoint.com ) stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
Santa Cruz, Ca. 8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
____________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:23:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Geiger Subject: How low do you go?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> How low do you people take your tires?
I run 10 LBS in my 4runner tires. I have used this for years in tires from
31 - 33". It works great. I run the sand at pismo most every month. Check
out the pics on my web site. http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html
Chris Geiger
PS no sliding sideways with lo psi !
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 15:21:20 -0500 (EST)
From: TXPakRat@aol.com
Subject: Listing
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Name: Robert (Bob) Wren
=20
City & State: Gaithersburg, MD
=20
Country: US
=20
E-mail address: TXPakRat@aol.com
=20
Toyota (s) year & model: 90 4Runner SR5 V6
=20
Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?): No
=20
Age: 34
=20
Occupation: Major, U.S. Army
(Medical Information Systems Officer)
=20
Marital Status: Married (3 kids: 7, 5, 3)
=20
Hobbies: Four wheelin', working on my truck, Gun Enthusiast (target
shooting, plinking), computers
=20
How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List: offroad.com
=20
General info about your vehicle, self, etc.: I have written a few
replies here already, but for those who haven=92t =93seen=94 me before . =
. .
mods/add-ons to my truck (since I bought it new) include: Performance
Products Progressive Rate rear springs (1.5 - 2=94 over stock), front T-b=
ars
preloaded (1- 1.5=94), Rancho RS9000 shocks w/ dual remote control, custo=
m
polyeurethane sway bar bushings, 32x1150x15 BFG AT=92s on American Racing=
15x8
Type 41 rims (came stock with 225x75=92s on steel wheels), Bushwacker
Extend-a-Fenders, 11.5 gal auxiliary gas tank, Jacobs Omni-Pak Ignition,
Jacobs Energy Core Pro Wires (8.5mm), Downey Competition Air Intake Syste=
m,
Borla Cat-back exhaust, Hella Vision Plus Halogen headlights (55/100 wat=
t),
wire mesh headlight guards, Bosch Pilot Fog Lights (front) on custom
brackets, Bosch Driving Lights (front), Night Blaster Fog Lights (rear),
Black Armor cargo area protector, custom made rear facing seats for the c=
argo
area (including seat belts), spring loaded tie down hooks at 4 corners (o=
n
side panels) in the cargo area, 60=94 roof rack, dark window tinting (all=
the
way around, including 6"+ strip at top of windshield), Mirage wrap-around=
bug
deflector, Toyota hitch receiver, remote mount Cobra CB (under driver's
seat) with 8' whip antenna mounted off left rear bumper, Monroe/Rancho he=
avy
duty steering stabilizer, custom front ash tray locking clip, front rubbe=
r
floor mats (Weather Tech style), Cobra Radar Detector, alarm system, Air
Guide auto compass, adjustable cargo bar, fire extinguisher mounted under
front of driver's seat, and all synthetic oils and lubes (engine, tranny,
driveshaft, etc.). I have done just about all of the work myself or with=
the
help of friends.
Future mods may include: adding a LS or Posi to the rear, regearing
front and rear diffs, new headers, free flow cat, 3=94 suspension lift, 3=
3=92s,
Manik brush guard/grill guard, slotted tail light covers, new horn (to
replace the wimpy stock one - any recommendations on type or where to
mount), Safari style/Con Fer roof rack, rear spare tire carrier, high lif=
t
jack, front mounted receiver, portable (receiver style) winch, and stereo
upgrades.
My truck is my daily driver, but I have taken it everywhere. Beach
running on South Padre Island, TX; beach and desert running in Baja, Mexi=
co;
trail riding in the (Nevada) Sierra=92s; and rock climbing (moderate only=
) and
trail riding in the Colorado Rockies. I haven=92t done much wheelin=92 h=
ere on
the east coast yet! Being in the military means that you move a lot (whi=
ch
has advantages and disadvantages).
Bob, Pack Rat, Wren
TXPakRat@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:03:40 -0800 (PST)
From: PSHENG@SCUACC.SCU.EDU
Subject: mo' gas can, mo' gas can, mo' gas can!
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Yep Scott, you guessed right, I'm at SCU, so I'd be happy to show you my
trick gas can rack setup. Only problem is that it doesn't exist yet,
but I hope to have my buddy at the machine shop weld that sucker up for
me within the next few weeks or so. I have the stock step bum[per on
my '85 'runner with one of those bolt-on type III hitches bolted on top
of the bumper in the step area. I plan on having the rack so it rests
on the top of the bumper, that way the whole assembly wont be rattling
around supported only by the hitch. I'll probably also strap the rack
to the bumper with some nylon webbing & quick release fastex buckles
for added stability while 'wheeling. Depending on how many 6-packs
my friend charges me for labor, it should be a pretty cost effective
way to add 10 gallons of gas capacity- figure an auxiliary tank
from NWOR or downey will run about $200, and holds something like 11
gallons- this way you can carry almost as much gas and be able to use
it on other vehicles...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:05:45 -0500
From: Rick Furnival Subject: NOVA Trails
To: Bob Bascom Bob,
I used to live in No. VA back in the 70's. I had a dirt bike then, and
there were a lot of cool places to ride. I've been told that most of those
areas have gone the way of the do-do bird (thanks to my endeavorous
colleagues in the engineering business).
I go up to the National Forests and Game Commission area now for
off-roading. Those places are not that hairy, but the wife and kids cause
me to be a bit more cautious these days. The mountains in Madison County
are a nice place and over in the Shen Valley, there are some public lands
that might suit your needs.
Rick Furnival, P.E.
furnival@citizen.infi.net
Sullivan, Donahoe & Ingalls, PC
Engineers, Land Planners & Surveyors
http://www.sdi-pc.com
Phone: 540-898-5878 FAX: 540-898-3390
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:01:36 -0500
From: john skaggs Subject: Oh darn
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>Boy I can't stand all this sun and 75 degree weather! In fact I had to>take the top off my 88 4Runner today, what a drag. We'll gotta go, the>beach calls. ;)
KISS MY A$$$$$:-)...... From Ohio (Cloudy,Dreary,Cold 17 this morning,Snowy) the
weather up hear really $uck$! Well gotta go the snow balls are calling me. :-(
I miss Arizona real bad!
John
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:48:56 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Oh darn
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, john skaggs wrote:>>Boy I can't stand all this sun and 75 degree weather! In fact I had to>>take the top off my 88 4Runner today, what a drag. We'll gotta go, the>>beach calls. ;)>>> KISS MY A$$$$$:-)...... From Ohio (Cloudy,Dreary,Cold 17 this morning,Snowy) the> weather up hear really $uck$! Well gotta go the snow balls are calling me. :-(>> I miss Arizona real bad!>> John
Ok, let me get this right...it's 17 degrees out and snowing. ..And
you're unhappy?
Wow.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:08:03 -0500
From: WartHog Subject: Oh darn
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
john skaggs wrote:>>> I miss Arizona real bad!>> John
You get use to it.
(Bull)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 01:30:22 -0500
From: "penny" Subject: on-board air 82 toy 4x4 parts PLEASE HELP
To: im interested in installing on-board air on my 82 toyota p/u using a
factory a/c compressor and a7-gallon air tank. does anyone have a list of
parts that i will need?? or any helpful suggestons?? has anyone
successfully accomplished this?? please e-mail me
purnrgy@quancon.com thanx in advance...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 13:27:10 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: performance exhaust
To: " - (052)nickkrest (a) batnet.com" Nick:
Thanks fer the info - but being in Philly means that I cant stop by to get an
exhaust made....
Two comments:
Borla - I agree - I'd SWEAR my muffler burned out long ago - the problem is
that you
cant get another muffler unless you send it to them - and they didnt seem to
keen on
making up a muffler to fit the kit (it has brackets weleded on it) to do a pre
paid swap out (i.e. I pay for a new muffler - and send them the old one. They
can either
refund the money I spent on the new muffler - or send the original muffler back)
If I get motivated - I'd get a dynoMax and get someone to weld a bracket on it..
FlowMaster - While I cant vouch for Dyno results - the FlowMaster is NOT
supposed
to have a good flow rate - the idea was that the baffles help build horspower
via gas flow synchronization. The idea has scientific basis, but I cant say if
the
dyno bears out the scientific concept in FlowMaster execution.
(i.e. - comparing FlowAMaster to Dynomax based on flow is NOT a fair test -
although the end result may actually be correct)
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 97 08:58:29
From: "Fisher, Gary" Subject: power antenna
To: toy4x4@tlca.org> And BTW for you off-roaders, how do keep from wrecking your> antenna? Sure, I could turn the radio off, but it's hard to
remember> that when you're trying to keep the truck from overturning, or just> battling to keep it on the road.>>> -- Jim
All I did was cut the power lead and place an inline dash mounted
switch so when I go wheelin I flick the switch (antenae goes down)
and listen to CD's or cassettes. When I get on to bitumen, I turn the
switch back on and the antenna works as it did before. It works fine.
Gary
garyf@hpa.com.au
Hilux 2.8 Turbo Diesel Extra Cab IFS
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:34:13 -0500 (EST)
From: SKeene8194@aol.com
Subject: Snatching a vehicle
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-03-23 11:32:13 EST, you write:
< how do I use the strap (NO HOOKS) on the to be recovered vehicle? Do you> wrap it around the frame and pass the strap through one end of the loop?
I> read it the posts before but did'nt quite catch it. Thanks,>> Keith
You let the stuckee attach the strap. That way, when you rip off their
bumper or other easy to remove part, they can't blame you or get too p$%sed
off. This always seems to work well for me!!!
Todd
87 Pickup, EZ locker F/R, 30-11.5-15 TSL SX's, Custon nerfs and
rear bumper, Etc, Etc.>> ________________________________________________
Most 4X4 clubs and organized events require all vehicles to have
large steel hooks or a clevis attached at both ends of the truck.
They should be attached to the frame with grade 5 bolts.
Most Toyota trucks come with at least one hook attached to the front.
Whether you are in a club or not it is best to install good strong tow
points on on your vehicle.
If the vehicle you are pulling does not have these attachment points you'll
have to be creative. Safety is the key point here. Attaching to a hitch
ball
is always a no no. There was a magazine article recently, which mentioned
a vehicle that had a welded on bumper which came off of the towee's truck
flew
through the air and hit a bystander. They had to be flown to the hospital.
The hooks on the front of my truck are attached to a brush guard. The brush
guard is attached to the frame. Not all brush guards are strong enough for
this.
Mine is made of 3/8" plate steel. In the rear I have clevis hooks through
the holes
in the bumper where the hitch ball would be.
Steve Keene
skeene8194@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 23:59:58 EST
From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin)
Subject: Stiff Ride in your Toy
To: shepardt@cadvision.com, toy4x4@tlca.org
I added the steel bed to stop the bouncing. It seemed like every time I
hit a little dip or bump in the road my front end would go over fine and
my back end just hit it hard and bounced up causing the front to bounce
w/ it. The weight, which is not really extra because it brings the total
truck weight back close to stock, is putting more pressure on the axles
(along w/ the shocks/springs) which in turn puts my tires more in contact
with the ground and stopping the bounce. This really worked too. I have a
total bed weight of around 320lbs. If the stock or comparable shock is
still available for my 81" I would love to know where, I looked but
couldn't find anything local. I will however use my 5000's to the max
since I have them. :-)
Matt Chapin
matt877@juno.com
81' 4x4 SR5
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997 20:40:03 -0700 "Terry Sheppard"
writes:>If you want to soften the ride the next thing I would do is replace>those>Rancho RS 5000, they are an excellent shock for what they are made for>(off>road) but they make the toy's ride like a tank. Don't get me wrong I>think>they are a great shock, I'm actually in the market for a new set>myself.>If you have the chance just lean on a similar Toy with stock or close>shocks you'll definitly see the difference.>>Oh when you added the weight to your Toy by installing a steal bed you>actually just loaded more on the shock, this will make the truck>softer,>but it will also kill your shocks and springs earlier.>>Just a suggestion>>Terry>>shepardt@cadvision.com> ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:31:44 -0800
From: "Richard Aguinsky" Subject: Timing chain
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
hi guys,
i have an 87 4 runner with 187000 on it, last week
you sent me a message that i have to change the
timing chain.
i replaced the pulley seal and the oil pump seal
last month when i replaced the water pump, and
that was a 2 bananas job for me, now i went under
the truck to see how to remove the oil pan to
change the timing chain and i can see that it
will be impossible to remove without removing
the ifs or at least lowering it.
has anybody removed the oil pan to change the
timing chain? in the service manual it says to
tap with a hammer very carefully to remove the
oil pan, but it doesn't mention anything at
all about the ifs.
help me please on this one!!
thanx
rich
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 10:37:08 -0700 (MST)
From: Mark Byron Carter Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #108
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Somebody wrote:>> Speaking of hubs, is there a cheap source for the gaskets to rebuild these?
Mine seem to still be watertight, but I've been re-using the gaskets every
time I've pulled the hubs. Downey has a rebuild kit, but I think it was $42
or something; I hate to spend that much to rebuild the Aisin hubs>> I bought the gaskets for the aisin hubs at my local toyota dealer for
under $1 each. YMMV
Mark B. Carter
mcarter@unm.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 06:57:20 -0800
From: Scott Muir Subject: Truetrac limited slip differentials
To: "'Toy List'" Sterling,
This is a battle that is sitting in the LandCruiser Archives.
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toy4x4/toy4x4_digest.html
Or something like that, I don't know it has changed.
Firstly, I don't have one yet, but I think I am foolishly going to track down an ARB or 2
because "they're neat". Its also its a bit of procrastination because I could afford something
cheaper at the moment.
Anyroad, a friend has a LockRite now. It is quite surprising how well
it handles on the street. (what with all the hype and all)
I think a lot depends on how you drive though.
He has an FJ-40 (stock engine) and 32" M/T BFG's, so he's FORCED to drive
conservatively anyway. If you (could) leadfoot it, I think it wouldn't be
so street friendly. An no, we haven't tried it out in snow yet, which seems
to be the worst of the hype.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 09:17:38 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Truetrac limited slip differentials
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Sterling Rorden wrote:
"...I substituted another Truetrac for the
Detroit Locker since I am concerned about
the streetability of this vehicle (I
sometimes drive it in the snow and my wife
will drive it in the rain)...How bad is a
locker in the snow or rain? Will the Truetrac
hold up to moderate 4 wheeling? If one wheel
is in the air while crawling will the Truetrac
still apply torque to the other wheel?"
People make out full lockers to be some sort of evil handling demon that
will throw your truck off a cliff at the first opportunity. I've had mine
in for about 30,000 miles now, and other than an occasional "Ka-POW!" sound
(usually while backing up) and increased axle wrap before I put on the
torque bar (now slight wheelslip - mini burner - on polished concrete or
slick asphalt at low speeds), the thing is transparent. I wouldn't even
know it was there, except I almost never use 4 wheel now. It's been to
Tahoe, Oregon, Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, etc., and no problems, nothing
unusual. So full lockers are not the Devil's own street-handling device in
my case.
But when you say, "moderate 4 wheeling," methinks you probably did the
right thing. My better half drives mine all the time (my mom, too,
sometimes) and there's no problem. Of course, Teri has her SCCA license,
and has taken a bunch of race driving schools, but still...
Your TrueTracs are probably the best bet for the kind of driving you say
you do. I know that in Sacto nothing's close; you need to drive wherever
you go. I would imagine that the LSD is probably the most correct answer to
your needs.
The TrueTrac is like any other LSD, except it uses a gear drive instead of
a clutch (similar to a Gleason Torsen). I've got one in the front and like
it, but as I said before, it's not really all that necessary with the
Locker in the rear (maybe if I did more of Jay's and Jack's kind of
wheeling...). I predict that you will be very happy with your setup in the
future.
Now somebody contradict me, please. We must have more opinions on this.
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:10:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Used p/u need some advice
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
This weekend our local dealer got a 1993 toyota 4x4 in.
It is completely stock, with the 22re, tachometer, chrome bumpers, and
stripe.
It has 90,000 miles (all highway I suspect, since it's pretty new) and
runs/drives great. The dealer is going to do a compression test and
some other stuff in a day or so, but I suspect that it's in great shape.
It does have one dent, and some paint scraped off around the
canopy/tailgate. Also the hood has a bunch of chips.
Other than that, and some cracked vinyl on the seat, and a missing pedal
rubber pad, it's in perfect shape.
I talked them down to 9000, and they will hold it until tommorrow. Is
this an okay deal? Should I go for it? let me know!
Thanks,
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:37:27 -0800
From: Scott Wilson Subject: Used p/u need some advice
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jonathan Albrecht wrote:>> This weekend our local dealer got a 1993 toyota 4x4 in.> I talked them down to 9000, and they will hold it until tommorrow. Is> this an okay deal? Should I go for it? let me know!
I went to the Kelly Blue Book page and got a high and low price for you
truck. Low is somewhere around $5500 and high is $9500. So, $9000 is
in the ball park, but it might be worth playing around with them a
little more.
Go back to the dealer with some story like your rent just went up, or
you owe for taxes. Tell them you just can't afford $9000, but if you
stretch you might be able to afford $8500. If they don't take it fine,
just look disappointed and leave. They have your phone number, they
WILL call you. If you haven't been called in 24hours, and you REALLY
want that truck. Go back and pay their $9000. It's worth trying
though, then you can spend the money you save fixing up your truck!
I've watched my parents deal like this and have always been amazed,
cause 90% of the time they get their price. In fact, using these same
tactics I bought my first car for $4500. They were asking $8000 when I
walked on the lot!
Good luck,
Scott
- --
*****************************************************
Scott Wilson TLCA #5261
88 4Runner SR5 V6
Santa Clara, CA
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 17:31:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Used p/u need some advice
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Scott Wilson wrote:> Jonathan Albrecht wrote:>>>> This weekend our local dealer got a 1993 toyota 4x4 in.>>> I talked them down to 9000, and they will hold it until tommorrow. Is>> this an okay deal? Should I go for it? let me know!>> I went to the Kelly Blue Book page and got a high and low price for you> truck. Low is somewhere around $5500 and high is $9500. So, $9000 is> in the ball park, but it might be worth playing around with them a> little more.>> Go back to the dealer with some story like your rent just went up, or> you owe for taxes. Tell them you just can't afford $9000, but if you> stretch you might be able to afford $8500. If they don't take it fine,> just look disappointed and leave. They have your phone number, they> WILL call you. If you haven't been called in 24hours, and you REALLY> want that truck. Go back and pay their $9000. It's worth trying> though, then you can spend the money you save fixing up your truck!
Well, I decided to wait. What I really need anyway is a 4runner...so
instead of spending 9000 on the truck, and another 1000 on a good canopy,
and another couple hundred fixing up the back...I'll just wait until I can
find a 4Runner.
Oh..well also they never quite said 9000. They said they paid 8700 for it
(it was a young guy selling the truck, and he makes the same $100
comission no matter what), and his boss countered my initial 8000 with
9500...but I think I could get the price down. Problem is, after canopy,
insulation, stereo, lift, tires, gears, marlin...I just can't afford all
that!
Oh well...thanks anyway.
Anybody got a used truck in the washington/idaho/montana/oregon area
they'd like to sell in a week or two?
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:38:40 -0600
From: Steve Capuano Subject: Used p/u need some advice
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
offer 500-1000 above the low value and they will still make a killing. If
they hardball you get up and leave with out saying anything. You wont get
out the door.
At 02:37 PM 3/24/97 -0800, you wrote:>Jonathan Albrecht wrote:>>>> This weekend our local dealer got a 1993 toyota 4x4 in.>>> I talked them down to 9000, and they will hold it until tommorrow. Is>> this an okay deal? Should I go for it? let me know!>>I went to the Kelly Blue Book page and got a high and low price for you>truck. Low is somewhere around $5500 and high is $9500. So, $9000 is>in the ball park, but it might be worth playing around with them a>little more.>>Go back to the dealer with some story like your rent just went up, or>you owe for taxes. Tell them you just can't afford $9000, but if you>stretch you might be able to afford $8500. If they don't take it fine,>just look disappointed and leave. They have your phone number, they>WILL call you. If you haven't been called in 24hours, and you REALLY>want that truck. Go back and pay their $9000. It's worth trying>though, then you can spend the money you save fixing up your truck!>>I've watched my parents deal like this and have always been amazed,>cause 90% of the time they get their price. In fact, using these same>tactics I bought my first car for $4500. They were asking $8000 when I>walked on the lot!>>Good luck,> Scott>-->*****************************************************>Scott Wilson TLCA #5261>88 4Runner SR5 V6>Santa Clara, CA>http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm> ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:45:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Used p/u need some advice
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Does anybody know the site for NADA? I guess that's what the dealers
around here use.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 14:13:31 -0600
From: hosse@okway.okstate.edu (Hoss Eubank)
Subject: V-6 head gasket on Tacoma
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, toyota@btoy1.rochester.ny.us
I know that it's been discussed to high heavens and back, but I really
never paid attention. I guess I never thought it would happen to me.
I have a 1996 Toyota Tacoma 4WD with 19900 miles on it. The motor is a
V-6 3.4 Liter model # 3VZ???? or something like that. While changing
my oil this weekend, I noticed the passenger side head gasket leaking
oil. I was scheduled to take it to the dealer on Wednesday, March 26,
for some other warranty work (6th time back). I guess they can add
this to the list of things to fix.
I realize through all the postings on the list that the head gasket
problem is a very common problem among the V-6 engines that Toyota
produces. Has Toyota come up with a different solution than just
replacing the head gasket? I don't want to have to change the head
gasket every 20,000 miles or so for as long as I own this hunk of
junk.
I criticize my vehicle like that for a reason. Since about 2500
miles, I've had nothing but problems. One problem after the other and
I'm growing very frustrated and tired of the service shop having my
vehicle more than I do. I'm starting to think that my truck was built
by Yugo instead of Toyota. Don't know if I will ever buy another
Toyota again or not. You would think that for $20,000, a company
could at least build a motor that won't leak oil.
Another question that I have: Has anybody experienced hoses on their
motors in their Toyota turning crusty black on the outside? It
started about 3000 miles and it keeps getting worst. They are really
soft like they are weakening. They look like hoses off of a truck
that's been driven for 10 years.
Thanks for any info. in advance.
Wil Eubank
hosse@okway.okstate.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:33:30 -0600
From: Steve Capuano Subject: V-6 head gasket on Tacoma
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
check your states lemon law. G'luck
At 02:13 PM 3/24/97 -0600, you wrote:> I know that it's been discussed to high heavens and back, but I really> never paid attention. I guess I never thought it would happen to me.>> I have a 1996 Toyota Tacoma 4WD with 19900 miles on it. The motor is a> V-6 3.4 Liter model # 3VZ???? or something like that. While changing> my oil this weekend, I noticed the passenger side head gasket leaking> oil. I was scheduled to take it to the dealer on Wednesday, March 26,> for some other warranty work (6th time back). I guess they can add> this to the list of things to fix.>> I realize through all the postings on the list that the head gasket> problem is a very common problem among the V-6 engines that Toyota> produces. Has Toyota come up with a different solution than just> replacing the head gasket? I don't want to have to change the head> gasket every 20,000 miles or so for as long as I own this hunk of> junk.>> I criticize my vehicle like that for a reason. Since about 2500> miles, I've had nothing but problems. One problem after the other and> I'm growing very frustrated and tired of the service shop having my> vehicle more than I do. I'm starting to think that my truck was built> by Yugo instead of Toyota. Don't know if I will ever buy another> Toyota again or not. You would think that for $20,000, a company> could at least build a motor that won't leak oil.>> Another question that I have: Has anybody experienced hoses on their> motors in their Toyota turning crusty black on the outside? It> started about 3000 miles and it keeps getting worst. They are really> soft like they are weakening. They look like hoses off of a truck> that's been driven for 10 years.>>> Thanks for any info. in advance.>> Wil Eubank>> hosse@okway.okstate.edu> ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:31:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: V-6 head gasket on Tacoma
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 24 Mar 1997, Hoss Eubank wrote:> I have a 1996 Toyota Tacoma 4WD with 19900 miles on it. The motor is a> V-6 3.4 Liter model # 3VZ???? or something like that. While changing> my oil this weekend, I noticed the passenger side head gasket leaking> oil. I was scheduled to take it to the dealer on Wednesday, March 26,> for some other warranty work (6th time back). I guess they can add> this to the list of things to fix.
Sure that isn't a valve cover leak? Oh well, I guess they'll have to fix
it no matter what it is.
What other problems have you had?
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:01:03 -0500
From: Keith Campbell Subject: V6 Query
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Has anyone heard of, or experienced a second headgasket failure
after Toyota repaired the original gasket? Just Curious,
Keith
"Si vis pacem, para bellum"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 21:40:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Geiger Subject: V6 Query
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> Has anyone heard of, or experienced a second headgasket failure> after Toyota repaired the original gasket? Just Curious,
Yes, I just sold my stock rear bumper to a guy who had a 91 4Runner that
needed a second complete head gasket job. He was not happy.
Chris Geiger http://home1.gte.net/cgeiger/offroad.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:20:38 MST7MDT
From: "Alan Anderson" Subject: want to swap gears
To: denmother4wd@juno.com, Toy4x4@tlca.org>Hello all,>We have a fellow club member with a 4 cyl 4Runner who has 5.29's with
l>ock rites f&r, looking to straight swap someone who has 4 cyl 4.88's
(>he>wants to keep his lockers)( He is going from 6" of lift with 35 BFG>Mud>TA's back down to 4" of lift and 33 BFG Mud TA's.) parts located in>Northwest WA state -Mt Vernon, WA area. any takers?? thanks>Success is the quality of the journey, not the destination. Remember>it's what you build, not what you buy .Body dents are only skin deep,>it's what's in your differentials that count. TLCA Member #1794.>PNW4WDA>mbr. Northern Toys 4WD Club &>Rain Country Land Cruisers Kim & Terry Johnson->DenMother4wd@juno.com
I might be interested.....what kind of shape are the third members
in? Would they pay one-way shipping on one pair if I paid on the
other? Will 3rd mem. from '85 toy p'up fit? get back with me on
this...
Thanx,
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 11:08:29 -0500 (EST)
From: SKeene8194@aol.com
Subject: Wheel bearings - thanks!
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-03-23 14:51:27 EST, you write:
<> I re-used the original gaskets but the hubs leaked grease and the hubs were
always black and greasy. As a water proofing tactic I replaced the gaskets
with the blue permatex gasket maker. Put just enough of a line on the
flange
to squeeze out as you tighten the bolts.
Steve Keene - 81 Toy4x4 LB PU.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 12:59:17 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Wierd 4Runners (Pre 84)
To: " - (052)albr9619 (a) uidaho.edu" Johnantan mentioned som pre 84 "4Runner" thingies -also in this vein are the
FabCabs
and the "IronMan" options...
I am aware that some pre 84 (i.e. 79 body style) "4Runners" were around - they
were
called Trail Blazers. I think the owner of NWOR has one - and it did get a
feature in
one of the 4x4 mags this year (I get almost all of 'em - no TV)
It had a unitized cab - and I think it was a "factory" option.
I have seen another similar thing - no label. I saw it in Telluride CO a few
weeks ago. Again
a 79-83 style cab. In this case it was a fiberglass back half and it was added
to a
cab with the back wall removed (gasket going all the way around). It had a flip
up
rear gate (like a cap) and a goofy "half" tailgate arrangement - unlike a 84+
4Runner.
Also there were FabCabs - it was a full "crew" box with a real bench set - and
room!
No crew doors (or only on the passenger side I think) but a raised roof. They
were well made - from what I could tell - and they were done by sectioning the
frame
and adding in a new frame section (driveshaft etc)
The IronMan options were a trim package (bumper, lights and possibly wheels?)
It was offered through dealers from TRD I think in 1988 and possibly 1987. The
pre
run bumper was a LOT more trick than the current Downey IFS thing - and had two
KC
lights on it. I recall that the scoop was that the cost moved a base truck
(pkg. not really
intended for SR5s) into the SR5 price range but it definately was a head turner
(it might of also had a bed "pre run bar" with more lights too)
EWong
------------------------------
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