From: Matthew J. Westrich[SMTP:bigsgt@bitcorp.net] Sent: Saturday, January 11, 1997 11:34 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: A Little Intro! Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello Everybody, I'm Matthew J. Westrich a.k.a. The Big Sgt. I've been a 4 wheeler for a few years now and really love the sport. I've dove into it in Utah, I'm Vice-President of the of the Utah 4 Wheel Drive Assoc, President of the Big Horn 4X4 Club of Ogden Utah. I've Wheeled from Hawaii to Germany(thank you US Army) and have had my share of stucks. I own a 83 Ramcharger and a 74 Trailduster. My wife, the better half, has a 96 Sidekick 4dr. I would like to hear from people here in Utah that would like to jion the different clubs here in Utah and that would like to jion the Utah Assoc. We can never have toooooooo much help in our group. There are several fine Clubs in Utah, Big Horn, Storm Mountain, Desert Trackers, Red Rock, Cashe Valley Rangers and more. So come to one of these fine clubs meetings. If there are any other groups that would like to jion the State Assoc pleasr write me. The Utah State Assoc will have it's Winter Convention Jan 25th. We will meet at the old Hardies at 12400 S and Redwood Road at 8 o'clock. We will will be going to 5 mile pass OHV play area and having some good fun in the snow. Everybody is welcome and bring some friends. That night we will be having a dinner and meeting a the North Salt Lake Gun Club. It will be about 8 bucks a head. RSVP Remember, United We Stand, Divided We Fall. Join and be heared! Thanks to Bret Davis for showing me this site. Big Sgt President of the Big Horn 4x4 Club of Ogden Utah V-P of the Utah 4 Wheel Drive Assoc. V-P of Northern Utah React ******************************************* Subject: Arizona OHV Coordinator Intro & Survey Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com I was introduced to the land use digest via an e-mail introduction passed along by Randy Harden of the National OHV Conservation Council Association (NOHVCC). Here is some information on my background: Terry Heslin, OHV Program Coordinator Arizona State Parks 1300 W. Washington Street Phoenix, Arizona 85007 theslin@pr.state.az.us http//www.pr.state.az.us (follow the "Partnerships" thread for OHV information) I'm enthusiastic about the "Blitz '97" endeavor as I find your guiding philosophy to be something I can support wholeheartedly. I especially like your use of the word "conservation" because that is key to what we want to do here in Arizona. Because of zealous intolerance of many multiple use issues--especially OHV/OHR access--the word "environmentalist" has been eliminated from the list of words that I would use to describe myself. Our mission statement: The mission of the Arizona Off-Highway Vehicle Program is to develop and enhance statewide off-highway vehicle recreational opportunities, and develop educational programs that promote resource protection, social responsibility, and interagency cooperation. In order to avoid redundancy, I'll include my responses to Del's survey below: Screen Name: Terry Heslin Real Name: Terry Heslin I reside in (town, state): Phoenix, Arizona Primary Responsibility: to be my kid's dad I drive: - 86 Toyota 4x4 long bed pick-up - 96 Jeep Cherokee (work rig) - 88 Kawasaki KDX 200 - 91 Yeti Ultimate Mtn. Bike Rig Modifications; Each is fundamentally stock except for good rubber and suspension, Smittybuilt bumpers (Toyota), In most cases I find each of these vehicles to be very OHV capable of getting me where I want to go. Eleven years in the OHV management business (a.k.a. the school of hard knocks) has given me exceptional driving/riding abilities. My Favorite Trails are: -Charouleau Gap on the Coronado NF -Bulldog Canyon/Great Western Trail on the Tonto NF -Casner Mtn. on the Coconino NF (currently limited to vehicles less than 50" but were working on that since it is a powerline road that traverses the Mogollon Rim in the heart of Arizona; awesome! -Slickrock on Moab BLM (mtn. bike & motorcycle are my preferred conveyance here) -Rubicon, Tahoe & Eldorado NFs -Little Sullivan #21 on the Mendocino NF (MC preferred) -Shagnasty #25 on the Mendocino NF (MC preferred) -Any trail I have not yet traveled that inevitably instills that sense of adventure and discovery that marks the first time travel in new territory. Not to be confused with with the "Star Trekker Syndrome" which compels slob OHRers to go where no man has gone before. Years of Off Road Experience: 26--first traveled as a passenger in a Ford Bronco on the Gila NF in New Mexico as a 12 year-old, first dirt bike at 18, first 4x4 at 25. Age (approximate if you want); 38 My Congressional Rep (supportive of us? not sure): John Shadegg My Congressional Rep (non - supportive of us): None, Rep. Ed Pastor is the lone Democrat in our delegation, not sure where he stands on Utah Wilderness. Other Related Hobbies; camping, photography, hiking, mtn. biking My Pet Peeve (in your sport): -zealous environmentalist whackos who are self-appointed saviors of the planet and espouse zero tolerance for OHR & multiple use; let the truth be dammed! -political correctness -the Los Angeles legal system -slob OHV users--"star trekkers" (We have a Hummer problem on the Tonto NF) Organizations I belong to include: -National OHV Conservation Council (NOHVCC) -Arizona State 4x4 Association -Arizona Mtn Bike Assn. (MBAA) -Central Arizona Trials Club -National Association of Recreation Resource Planners ********************************************** Subject: EC4WDA comin aboard! Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi, My name is Sugar Fields, the fingers of EC4WDA on line. Our Association is made up of 60 plus clubs in 11 states from Ct. to Kentucky and from Michigan back to the Atlantic, and 29 years old! We are active and interested in ALL aspects of the OHV(4x4's in particular) sport. Our clubs compete under sanction of EC4WDA, they trailride, they write letters that impact the sport, we do community and land use projects. Please add our 1900 count to the voice of the Off-roaders causes! Hi Del! Sugar Fields, Recording Secretary EC4WDA Supported by husband Ken just as involved over 30 years! I.O.K. 4 Wheelers Club Inc. Do'ers 4 Wheelers Land Use Network (Del Albright) Tread Lightly Blue Ribbon Coalition 1979 CJ-7 called "Sugartime" Subject: Hello everyone... Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Just wanted to introduce myself. I live in Indianapolis, IN. I do not belong to any activist organization yet. I plan to join after Christmas. I want to help however I can. Some friends and I have started a small club based loosely in Indiana. Almost all of us have met through the offroad.com mailing list. We all believe in 'Treading Lightly' and with helping to keep the enviornment open to many uses. I believe if our message is one of "Conservative Conservation" we will appeal to a broad cross section of the company. By not trying to be extreme we will have a clearer purpose. I hope that this list can serve to unite the various organizations that are trying to protect our rights and privilages. We need a common agenda to present to the public and politicians. Using email and the web we ought to be able to contact a large number of politicians, organizations and individuals. Good luck to everyone who has been involved in starting this. At least now I can stop re-posting everyones posts. And let me apologize for my sometimes sarcasm about issues. I only mean the sarcasm in humor. I am very serious about this and many other issues. Let me know how I can help... Keith Mitchell 1975 International PU 150 and soon a 79 FJ-40 member: Mid-West Web & Rock Crawlers "Why have toys if you can't play with them" Club Page: http://139.102.27.41/webrock.htm Truck in Action: http://139.102.27.41/webrock/projects/keith/exec/1.htm ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Ken Barber[SMTP:kbarber@oregoncoast.com] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 1996 3:39 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Hello from new subscriber Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello, and thank you for doing an e-mail newsfeed. While my main intention in subscribing is to receive news, I may have a few things to contribute from time to time as well. I am a former environmentalist. I know what these people want, and I know what their real goals are. I know their movement from the inside. I am also a former logger. I've been on both sides of the issue, I've watched & learned from both sides, and I have seen a lot. I know when someone in this debate is telling the truth and when they are not. The environmental movement isn't interested in the truth. Neither are they nearly as interested in conservation as they would have you believe. Their agenda is a purely political one. I consider the environmental movement to be one of the most dangerous in America today -- dangerous in terms of what they, if successful, will do to our basic Constitutional rights; indeed, the very Liberty for which our founders fought, bled and died. These people are not to be taken lightly. They are loaded for bear and are winning. It is time that the public begin to be informed. The enviros are successful precisely because the public, most of which now dwells in cities, is woefully uninformed of the realities of nature and the Great Outdoors. I live in one of the Pacific Northwest's supposedly "endangered" forests. A few miles from me is one of the largest clearcuts in the country. I will share my knowledge on Oregon forests as much as time permits. In the meantime, as the new chairman of my county's Republican organization, I will disseminate the info that comes through this list to as many concerned people as I can. Thank you for providing a live list. We have a lot of manure to shovel. Let's get to work! Ken Barber Chairman, Tillamook County (Oregon) Republican Central Committee Subject: Hi (John Borg's Intro Post) Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello; Thanks for the warm welcome. My name's John Borg, I live in Northern Utah in the town of North Logan. My off-road mode of travel is mostly on a mountain bike, but I also hike, 4WD, and occasionally ride dirt bikes. I've ridden mountain bikes for about 16 years now, and have ridden extensively all over the state of Utah. I've also ridden in Idaho, Arizona, Colorado, Wyoming, Northern California, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. As you all know, there is a strong effort of wilderness advocates (Utah Wilderness Coalition, which includes the Sierra Club and SUWA) to designate 5.7 million acres of BLM lands in Utah as wilderness. I've gone over the UWC maps in their document "Wilderness at the Edge," and have found that many of the trails (4WD and singletrack) that I've ridden for years in the Moab area will be closed to all off-road vehicles if this plan is adopted (HR1500 used the UWC plan directly). Because of the potential closures, I've been trying to learn as much as I can about the wilderness issue in Utah and wilderness designation in general. To get an overall understanding of this issue, I'm trying to learn what other groups (4WD, dirt bikers, hikers, climbers, ....) concerns are and what they're doing to make their voice heard. So that's why I'm here. One of the things the really bothers me about this issue is the polarization. It really annoys me when people draw lines (my use is OK, but all those _____ should be locked out), so I tend toward multiple (but managed) use. It also bothers me when groups try to label all 4WD users as destructive, all mountain bikers as reckless, .... I feel that respect/abuse is determined by the individual, not the mode of travel. For these (and many other reasons) I agree with your philosophy of; 1. Repsonsible multiple use of our lands and natural resource 2. Non-use of appropriate areas; 3. Educating our politicians and our fellow users; and 4. Conservation of our resources and opportunities to enjoy them. I was also glad to see your list permits discussion, rather than the "do-my-bidding" approach (attention mindless drone; dial this number, then say this .... ;-) I've seen on some of the "Action Alert" mailing lists (these lists also have _useful_, albeit very biased information). Happy trails, and a Happy New Year; John Borg borgj@cache.net Subject: RE:HI! Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com HELLO EVERYONE! MY NAME IS RUSSELL MARTIN I AM CURRENTLY THE SECRETARY/NEWSLETTER EDITOR OF 4-PLAY 4WD CLUB (CATCHY NAME NO?) WHO IN TURN ARE PROUD MEMBERS OF THE SOUTHWEST FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE ASSOCIATION . MY CURRENT PROJECT IS A 1976 CJ-7 (A.K.A THE "HEEP") WITH 258 I-6, T-18, REAR E-Z LOCKER, WINCH, 3" LIFT, AND 33" A-T TIRES. THE LIST WOULD BE LONGER BUT IT SEEMS MOST OF THE BUDGET IS USED JUST TO KEEP THE DARN THING RUNNING. ENOUGH ON THAT, I LIKE MOST OF YOU OUT THERE AM ALARMED AT THE PROSPECT OF LOSING A LARGE NUMBER OF LANDS TO ENVIRONMENTALISTS, MANY OF WHOM NEVER LEAVE THE CITY TO VISIT THE AREAS THEY WANT TO "PROTECT". I LOOK FORWARD TO BEING ON THIS LIST IN ORDER TO KEEP INFORMED ON THE ISSUES. TTYL RUSSELL Subject: howdee Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Name is Bob Norton....home is Edgewood, NM...."beyond the boondocks" in the Manzano Mountain foothills east of Albuquerque. Occupation: Department Manager for a regional architectural Paints & Coatings manufacturer. My 4 Wheel Drive vehicles are a well equipped '89 Jeep Cherokee and '86 Ford F-150. Regular Member of the New Mexico 4-Wheelers, club Delegate to the Southwest 4-Wheel Drive Association; Associate Member of Red Rock 4-Wheelers. Also am very active in Amateur (Ham) Radio. N5EPA is my Ham radio callsign, not some political statement! Most interested in DXing, that is, worldwide shortwave (HF) communication and VHF/UHF weak-signal long distance communications. Have moved after a long battle with Bernalillo County over my right to erect a modest tower and antennas. Torrance County has more of a "live and let live" attitude. Incidentally, the political shenanigans involved in this matter closely resemble those that we see in land-use issues! Federal regulations and Federal Court rulings were ignored by local politicians and the District Court. I grew up in Western Michigan. My father would regularly load up the family station wagon and take our large family off into the National Forests. Got me hooked on enjoying motorized access on our Public Lands. After a few years in southwest Ohio and 5 vacations to the West, I made my way to New Mexico. Have been in New Mexico for 18 1/2 years now. I have done easy 4-wheelin for many years, mostly on my own....chickened out (prudently) when the trails would get a bit rough. About 3 years ago I met up with a very active Jeeper. I got hooked! Tackling increasingly more difficult trails and many $ spent on upgrades have resulted. Now am very involved with 4-wd club activities and am very fortunate to be able to take many long weekend trips to trails in S.E. Utah, S.W. Colorado and in New Mexico. I fully agree with the philosophy statement of the Land Use Network and am increasingly more pro-active in land-use matters. Best Regards, Bob Norton Subject: Info Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Seems I somehow subscribed to the list before it was even ready for new subscribers. Here is my bio information. Name: Keith Mitchell Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Occupation: Systems Analyst, Made2Manage Systems, Inc. Affiliations: Mid-west Web and Rock Crawlers Club (http://139.102.27.41/webrock.htm) 4x4's: 1975 International PU 150 4x4 I am new to offroading, got my truck in January of '96, had to have the farmer tow me behind his IH tractor to get me past the 4 foot snow drifts on the road leading to his farm. Got together with a group of guys from the off-road.com list to start 4wheeling in Indiana. We currently have around 12 people in our un-official club. We hope to get all the paper work done in 1st q of '97. We all support the efforts of Tread Lightly, the Blue Ribbon Coalition. I got interested in land use issues with the postings on offroad.com by Del Albright, and the couple of articles on it in the magazines. While I enjoy hiking, and backpacking, I also enjoy, 4wheeling, mountain biking and hunting. The stakes are our freedom and personal responsibility. I don't think it is a good idea to let organizations like the Sierra Club and SUWA have the power and control over what and where I can do the things that make me happy. I firmly believe that there is enough room for wilderness, multi-use parks and single use parks. However after reading the Sierra Club's Conservation Policies ( http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/ ) there is no way I would let them take control of our environment and close it off to suit their purposes. We have to get involved. We have to get the facts to the people making the descisions. We have to improve the image of our hobby. Put that's only my opinion... Keith Mitchell member: Mid-West Web & Rock Crawlers "Why have toys if you can't play with them" Subject: Fw: intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > >Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:49:07 > >To: > >From: Darrell Creeks > >Subject: intro > > > >> > >>(screen name)Darrell Creeks > >>(real name)Darrell Creeks > >>I reside in Georgetown CA. Eldorado County > >>I drive a 1983 toyota pickup.mods=3.5" spring lift,2" custom spring mount > lift,2" body lift, welded rear diff,custom flatbed, 33x12.50 tires. much > more to come. since I'm married with children(1 boy=five years old & 1 > girl=1 year old) I seem to be broke most of the time, so I do all mods myself. > >>(favorite trails)I've only been on two. The Rubicon and fordyce. I love > them both. > >>(years of off road experience) Driving for 10 years, participating for 26. > >>(age)26 > >>(cong rep)Tim leslie, I don't no if he supports or not. I will find out. > >>Related hobbies=fishing,hiking,hunting. > >>Pet peeve about this sport= people who are prejudice about different types > of vehicles. > >>orgs I belong to. Georgetown Stump Jumpers > >> Outback Trails > >> > >>email= dcreeks@calweb.com > >>web site= www.calweb.com/~dcreeks/outbacktrails.htm > >> > >>I have a hard time keeping up with you guys, but I'm trying. > >> > >>Darrell > >> > > > ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: misturd@icgroup.net[SMTP:misturd@icgroup.net] Sent: Friday, December 20, 1996 10:45 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello all, My turn. Hi. Mike Sturdevant Chief Engineer, TCAM Technologies ex-motocrosser ex-roadracer (way better at that) current old fart motocrosser, hare scrambler, trail rider, backyard flat tracker Bikes: '92 XR600 '78 XT500 (4) XR80's (including the Mighty Methanol Monster) '73 RD60 '75 RD250 '78 GS750 '74 CR125 Four years ago I "adopted" a section of trail in the Wayne National Forest in southern Ohio. I'm a prolific letter writer, on a first name basis with my congressman's legislative affairs aide. I'm hoping this list will be a resource to rival some of our opponents' resources. By the way, just re-subscribing to the Sierra club newsletter seemed to work for me. Go fast. Take chances. Mike S. AMA UTMA COHVCO BRC ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Jeff Deeney[SMTP:jld@thor.fc.hp.com] Sent: Friday, December 20, 1996 12:10 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Del, thanks for setting up this list. I've tried something similar in the past, but never had the time to generate the readership that we have here. I have lived in Fort Collins, Colorado for 15 years. I'm a mechanical engineer for Hewlett Packard, working on IC packaging and thermal solutions. Let's see, about myself. I'm an avid motorcyclist and have been riding dirt bikes since I was 10 (started in 1968, you can do the rest of the math :-) I've been riding Honda XRs since they were introduced in 1979. My current trail machine is a 1988 XR600 with CR front suspension. My current "street" bike is a Yamaha XT600 that allows me to continue riding through the winter. I've also done a little 4-wheeling, but just sold my Ford Ranger 4x4. Over the years I had that little truck over just about all of the high passes in Colorado, including the infamous Black Bear. The OHV organizations I support include: AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) COHVCO (Coloraod Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition) NCTR (Northern Colorado Trail Riders) BRC (Blue Ribbon Coalition) UTMA (Utah Trail Machines Association) I first became involved with landuse issues about 6 years ago when the local USFS wanted to close all of the single track trails in the area to motorized use. I hooked up with COHVCO and helped organize Northern Colorado Trail Riders. I've had turns in serving 3/4 of the officer positions in the club. Since the formation, NCTR has been effective in at least 2 appeals of USFS decisions. Although the majority of the club members are motorcyclists, the charter of NCTR is to represent 4x4, ATVs, motorcycles, and snowmobiles. I have a special fondness for riding in Utah. Moab and the San Rafael Swell are my favorite areas. Details of our Internet rides and encounters with SUWA can be found on off-road.com tales from the trails. We need to do everything that we can to prevent another fiasco like the California Desert Lockout Act. Utah contains vast sections of beautiful land that will be locked up forever if SUWA gets their way. -Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR FOLMA#2 UTMA BRC jld@fc.hp.com AMA#540813 COHVCO '85 XT600-Willy '88 XR600-Shamu We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding. ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: jeff reynolds[SMTP:rgser@westworld.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 9:44 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Cc: reynolds@infolane.infolane.com Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Dear landusers, ("landusers are not abusers") Who speaks for me? As I survey the geopolitical landscape, not many. I subscribed last week and am favorably impressed. I'm Jeff Reynolds (aka: Jefe, pronounced, HAY-fay) and have been the bass trombonist in the Los Angeles Philharmonic for 27 years. I also teach, play Hollywood movie soundtracks, and do some public speaking and a little writing for magazines. My hobbies are model railroading and Jeeping; specifically hard-core rock crawling. My wife Jean and I have and 2 grown children, Matt('73 Commando) and Julie( YJ wannabee). As a college student in 1965 I bought a '49 Willys 4WD Wagon, the first of 7 subsequent 4WD's (FJ-40, FJ-55, Scout Diesel, (2) XJ's, CJ-8), and ever since have been hooked on big rubber tires under geared mechanisms slowly grinding over rather attractive rocks. I have motated about a million miles in sleds with more than 1 stick piercing the floorboard. I do tread lightly, and being a mt. biker and long time backpacker, understand the fragilility of the natural setting. For 3 decades I have watched the green-eco-Nazis get their way- to which I say, enough is enough. "Can't we all just get along?" There is a HUGE ammount of land already set aside for wilderness travel, and in their case, non-travel. Much of it is so remote already as to be unfit for use by anyone but the fittest. Unfortunately, it has come to be us and them, except, "us" think they are wrong, and "them" think we are bad. "They" ( at least a few vocal ones) feel very passionate about their position: total closure of non-paved areas. We just want some crumbs-they want it all. They do not see a win-win position ( like I see, and think is possible and attainable). No multiple-use. No tolerance. I think what bothers me the most is their extreme arrogance for their position, and against non-beleivers. They do not give a hoot about displacing peoples and economies. They see the need for humans (other than them) to be moved much lower than the natural power structure dictates, lower on the food chain if you will. They will lie, cheat, or steal with a Godless missionary zeal (fits pretty well, doesn't it?) to accomplish their goals. Geopolitical terrorism. It is not about right or wrong- it is about power. They feel power. As dilusional as they are, they "feel good" about saving the planet from the bad guys. God help us. As multiple-use advocates, our constituency is a sleeping giant. My reasoning is that most jeepers (small 'j') have quite a bit of money and time invested in their hobby/sport, I would offer much more than the rank and file eco-Nazi. Once our giant wakes up, we may be able to turn the tide. We need to do this. One problem with this list right off is the name of the donor website. While it doesn't bother me, the 'greenies' will pounce on "off-road", like buzzards on roadkill, and call it evidence of the sure intention of our organization. In fact, as you read this some eco-spy is probably reading it along with you. The other problem is the flood of entries in real time. I, for one, would like a Digest format. I dropped all my lists some time ago, except "Jeep-l", as I could not spend so much time per day sifting through all that information, let alone respond wih anthing. All in all I feel that this site will be a good clearing house for issues, organization and disemination of information re: landuse. *I do want to remind everyone that there is a price to volunteerism 8<}. As a former fundraiser, and to be effective yourself, I recall the no. one thing you do before you ask someone to give or volunteer is to give yourself 'til it hurts. That way you can speak with authority and conviction. Who speaks for me? Many of you already have. Regards, as always, Jefe (How about, 'Landlubbers'?) '82 CJ-8 [maybe 'Landlovers'? How could you be agin' that group?] '89 XJ LTD I'll start working on some slogans. {'Building concensus: everyone wins') ('Win-Win?, SUWA doesn't think so') or ('concensus-only the extremists loose') ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Jim O'Brien[SMTP:jobrien@tidesys.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 1:23 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Name: Jim O'Brien Location: Mont Vernon, NH Occupation: Systems Engineer, Netmanage, Inc. Affliations: Granite State 4 Wheelers/member United/member Blue Ribbon Coalition/member 4x4's: 90 Toyota Xtra-cab 83 CJ7 (258, 33" swampers, E-Z locker rear, XD9000i) I am relatively new to the sport of 4wheeling. My first trip was almost two years ago in GWNF at an event (OHV Extravaganza) hosted by Preston Stevens club the Baltimore 4 Wheelers with my Toyota. I've since moved to New England, purchased a CJ7, joined a newly formed club (GS4W). Land access in New England is difficult and under attack like the rest of the country. We are in the early stages of a 10 year planning review for the White Mountains National Forest. We currently have no OHV access. Hopefully, we will change that. I found out about the this list by posts submittted to Jeep-L and Offroad. Jim O. ---------------------------------------------------------- Tidewater Systems | E-mail: jobrien@tidesys.com 131 D.W. Highway #312 | http://www.gwi.net/~jobrien Nashua, NH 03060-5245 | Home of WsFinger and WsFngrd ---------------------------------------------------------- ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Preston Stevens[SMTP:pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 12:14 AM To: 'landuse@off-road.com' Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Name: Preston Stevens Locations: Baltimore, Maryland Affiliations/positions: United Four Wheel Drive Associations/Director of Marketing Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Association/Environmetnal Affairs Baltimore 4 Wheelers, Inc./Land Use Director Virginia Four Wheel Dirve Association/Member at large Maryland Forests Association/Member M-SPAN/member NRA/member Zion United Church of Christ/Deacon Blue Ribbon/Member Tread Lightly/Member Occupation: Chief Electrician, Bon Secours Hospital Baltimore Married 20 years, 3 daughters, ages 3, 8, 13. (And it hasn't effected me a bit, effected me a bit, effected me a bit......) Drive a 1979 CJ-7 AMC/Jeep, 258, 4.10 gears, T-18A, 33" Armstrongs, Lock Right in rear, 220,000 + miles. Got my start in four wheel drive more than 25 years ago deer hunting, riding in a 1956 Willy's CJ5. Got in organized four wheel drive in about 16 years ago. Got involved in land use as a result of losing all of our access in the state of Maryland. With the help and guidance of Dave Hook, the then Director of Environmental Affairs, for United, we fought hard for nearly 8 years, but won back nearly all of our access. When the Legislative Liaison was formed. I was asked if I wanted to fill the United then open positive. I was then elected into the position after the that Annual Meeting. I have been doing landusee for the Baltimore four Wheelers since about 1985. I wheel as often as I can afford too. Access is a very tough battle in this area. We keep losing acrage. I keep fighting it. This year I was elected as the United's Director of Marketing. I have served on the Chysler/Jeep Envionemtal Advisory Council five (5) times. I am Maryland's Recreation Trails Council Recreational Four Wheel drive. Merry Christmas to all. Preston Stevens pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us United FWDA Director of Marketing Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Association Baltimore 4 Wheelers, Inc., Conservation/Land Use Director 1979 CJ7 Jeep ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: longrun@nlights.net[SMTP:longrun@nlights.net] Sent: Monday, December 16, 1996 8:07 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com HI all, The subscription acknowledgement message asked me to introduce myself to the list, so here goes. Name: Paul Weitlauf Location: Everett, Washington Occupation: Airworthyness Inspector for Boeing on 747 & 767 aircraft 4x4s in the current stable: '94 Geo Tracker (Soon to gain 2.5" lift and new tires- wife's) '86 Jeep Cherokee (3"lift, 31x10.5, 2.8 V6, Auto- daily driver) '80 IHC Scout Terra 'Hot Stuff' edition (possibly 1 of 4?) '72 IHC Scout II (spare parts) '71 Jeep CJ-5 (Project Slow Ride, Detroits, 4.89, D18, SM420, 5.7 V8, etc) 4x4 Organizations: Pacific Northwest 4 Wheel Drive Association, Region 1 (Land & Legislative Officer) Boeing Employees' Stump Thumpers 4x4 Club (Secretary & PNW4WDA Delegate) Timber Tamers 4x4 Club (PNW4WDA Delegate) E-mail address: mailto:longrun@nlights.net How did I find out about this list? I was on Del's personal list before it came here. Also saw it posted on the Off Road Digest & Jeep-List. Delivered from Northern Lights BBS, Everett, WA. ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: trust@lanl.gov[SMTP:trust@lanl.gov] Sent: Monday, December 16, 1996 11:44 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com A brief blurb about myself I am 41, married with children (I do identify with Saint Al), been jeeping since I bought my CJ 5 in 1974. I also have a 78 J 10 (both are for sale) driving age kids have 4x4s too. I am an environmental scientist working in restoration here at Los Alamos Nat'l Lab when I'm not working at my "career with a future" job at a convienience store. I am a member of the Sandia Jeep Club, UFWDA, Southwest FWDA, Colorado AFWDC, BRC, and Tread Lightly. Most of my involvement with fourwheeling now days is through letter writing and phone calls, I don't seem to have time to actually get out and do it. I'm hoping that at some point I will and that there will still be a place to go. Terry Rust "Childbearing [should be] a punishable crime against society, unless the parents hold a government license.... All potential parents [should be] required to use contraceptive chemicals, the government issuing antidotes to citizens chosen for childbearing." -David Brower, Friends of the Earth ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: BobXian@sisna.com[SMTP:BobXian@sisna.com] Sent: Monday, December 16, 1996 2:33 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi all, After seeing some of the recent bios, I'm almost ashamed to list my lack of credentials. I'm a jeeper. I like to rock crawl. I'm concerned that people are trying to restrict that privilege. I try to be responsible, I understand and follow TREAD Lightly. I belong to no organizations. I temporarily reside in St. George, Utah after spending the last 5 years in Helena, Montana. I am a minister with 10 years experience throughout the U.S. and 2 years experience as a missionary in Kenya, East Africa, where I got my introduction into 4 wheeling in a 1965 Toyota Land Cruiser wagon. I want to know what I, as an individual can do. I will pass that info on to others who have a similar interest in 4 wheelin' but without 'net access. ///// ( / \ ) ( O O ) ______________________oOOo-( )-oOOo_______________________ Bob Deruy EMAIL: BobXian@sisna.com '79 CJ-7, T-18a, 4.56's in D30 & AMC20 35" Goodyear MT's, EZ-Lockers, 4" SuperRide ______________________________Oooo________________________ oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Bob Telepak[SMTP:rtelepak@unm.edu] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 1996 6:44 PM To: List Landuse Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi to all. I have just subscribed. While I have been on both the jeep-l and off-road lists for over a year, I did not realize that there was this separate land use sub-list. Club Affiliations: New Mexico 4-Wheelers full member Environmental/Land Use Officer Red Rock 4-Wheelers associate member Location: I live in Bosque Farms, NM which is a suburb of Albuquerque I also own a house in Moab, UT which I visit frequently Vehicle: '81 CJ-5, 6 cyl, NP-435 tranny, Dana 300 transfer case, 4.11 axle R & P (72:1 crawl ratio), Summers Bros axle shafts, ARB air lockers front & rear, Rancho 2 1/2 lift, 33 X 12.5 tires, etc, etc I am extremely interested in land use issues. I recently participated peripherally in the lawsuit brought by the State of Utah and the Utah Counties Association against the Dept. of the Interior to stop the re-survey of Utah lands. This involved my affidavit concerning my encounter with a BLM resource planner who was portraying trails covered by HR-1500 as if they were already closed. I am also a supporter of the COHVCO effort to reverse the decision on the Mt. Blanca trail. I am a member of the Southwest 4-WD Association, the United 4-WD Association, and the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Looking forward to being in the Off-Road Land Use group. Bob Telepak ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: gwbuild@allwest.net[SMTP:gwbuild@allwest.net] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 1996 3:24 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Newbie stats to add to the list. Glenn Wakefield, 88.5 Samurai. I'll screw up the stats a bit being 31years old and only into fourwheeling for about 3 years now. You can check all of the above when it comes to rig modifications though. Moab/Red Rock country is my favorite playground and type of wilderness to recreate in. I enjoy the outdoors and most ways to get there. Mountain biking is my main gig, though 4wheeling is my passion.... also enjoy hiking, backpacking, dirt bikes (WR500), snowshoeing, blah, blah, blah. As an outdoor enthusiast with so many interests, I belong to a few mailing lists in these different areas. Mountain bikers in general are more open to 4x4s than you'd think. Hikers tend to bitch quite a bit about us though. The most open-minded and least judgemental outdoor enthusiasts I know, are all 'wheelers'. Either fortunately or unfortunately, I love to play too much to take time to delve into serious research on land issues.... I am always willing to send mail, make calls, and let my opinions be heard when the time comes. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* *^ Glenn Wakefield (Wakefield Custom Const.) *^ ^* 801-783-4355 ^* *^ gwbuild@allwest.net O *^ ^* o===== @|\__ ^* *^ {| [ ]\___ ~ _~~ || *^ ^* |/-\___/-\] [\_/\ /\ ^* *^ (_) (_) (_)* (_) <_ \_ *^ ^* All those who wander are not necessarily lost. ^* *^ ~~TREAD LIGHTLY~~ *^ ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/features/tonka.html ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: John Brabyn[SMTP:cyberkiwi@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 11:50 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: INTRO and TWO CENTS - Jerry Wagner Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi Jerry -- you make some good points, although I must say I nowadays see very few off roaders abusing the Tread Lightly ethic. I too have read the Sierra Club policy on off-road use, and have even engaged in a lengthy email exchange with their president about it. (I'm also trying to get it published in a magazine article so the public will realize how draconian its "guilty until proven innocent" approach is). As for the background "evidence" about damage to the environment caused by off road vehicles, nearly all of it is pure fiction as long as we are talking about the kind of off roading that happens in real life -- ie ON established roads and trails. I can't resist just a couple of comments on this -- feel free to tune out! > 1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. > Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and > fish habitat; b. Soil compaction and serious adverse impact on > flora and its regeneration; and c. Degradation of trails, including > rutting and breakdown of trail edges. > 2. Disruption of wildlife breeding and nesting habitats, especially > of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young; > 3. Disturbance of wildlife, leading to weakened physical condition, > death, and possible extinction of some species; None of the above applies to on-trail use except the "degradation of trails" which can be argued either way -- use of trails also helps to keep them in being. > 4. Damage to archaeological, scientific, historical and other > significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with > irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interest for > scientific study; > 5. Facilitation of illegal hunting fishing and the talking of game > and non-game wildlife; > 6. Danger to the safety of other land users because of vehicle > speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail > surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and These are all transparently "made up" arguments by armchair theoreticians who have never been there (a feature common to Sierra Club members and supporters) and certainly never seen or done any four wheeling. > 7. Competition with other land users: vehicle operators, with > their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of > scarce land per recreational user. On the other hand, hikers, with their slower mobility, tend to stay longer in a given area causing more damage to its ecosystem, with more need to camp overnight -- usually near springs and water sources. They have greater need to forage and burn local firewood (unlike vehicle users who can carry in their own). Their longer travel times give rise to more pollution through human bodily waste, more opportunity for vandalism, and less likelihood of staying on established trails when compared with vehicular visitors. Hikers are much less likely to carry out their litter, and much more likely to leave established trails, step on plants, and leave human waste and toilet paper lying about. In the case of mishap they are much harder to find and get to, and place more strain on search and rescue resources than their vehicle-bound counterparts. > > Motorized vehicles: > 1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently > removed from any such sources; > 2 Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in > physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, > altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in most > circumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for > other users; The noise of modern off road vehicles is almost negligible -- certainly in comparison with other noise sources such as the low flying military planes that are a constant companion in the desert. The noise of some bikes and ATVs could indeed be improved upon. > 3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization, operators of vehicles carry > more gear, with potential to leave more litter; On the contrary, hikers are far less likely to carry their litter out than are vehicle users (see above). > 4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with > increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and > 5. Fire: illegally or improperly operated vehicles can often create > a fire hazard on public or private lands. Not nearly so great as the fire hazard of other users like hikers with campfires. Well, that's enough of the soap box -- that policy just irritates me every time I see it!! Many thanks for the good commentary Cheers John John Brabyn Friends of Death Valley Land Rover Owners Association CA4WDC Jerry Wagner wrote: > > Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > > Hello, All > My name is Jerry Wagner. I’m from Houston, TX. I’m only > lately involved in off-roading. I involve myself in restoration of > classic 4WD vehicles from a history/hobby standpoint. Like the rest > of you, however, the more I get off-road the closer I get to > becoming HARD-CORE. It just seems to get better each time!! > I confess that I am also a Semi-Greenie. In my travels around > New Mexico and West Texas I have seem incredible devastation of > what was beautiful wilderness by cattle operations, mining > operations, and sadly, irresponsible owners of off-road vehicles. I > am as much concerned by the explosion of off-road usage as by the > efforts of the Sierra Club, et al , to limit access to public > lands. > I believe that we, as responsible land users, have a two > front battle ahead of us. We must be diligent in our efforts to > retain our rights to responsible use of public lands, and when we > hear or see efforts by reactionary environmentalists to simply > exclude us out of hand, we must use our pens, voices, keyboards and > ballots to fight them. We also MUST pay attention to what they’re > saying and why. It is up to us to clean up our own acts before we > lose it all! If we continue to allow our fellow off-roaders to > damage public property that belongs to all of us then we will > continue to lose access to OUR lands. > I have attached excerpts of the Sierra Club’s policy on > off-road vehicle use of public lands. These are some of the reasons > they use to limit access only to areas THEY chose. We should all > address these items and eliminate them. If they have no evidence > of damage their case dies. > > ************ > Sierra Club Policy: Off-Road Use of > Vehicles > > The following policy on Off-Road Use of Vehicles has been adopted > by the Sierra Club Board of > Directors: > > <
> > > 2. Use of vehicles on other public lands: > a. Trails and areas on public lands should be closed to all > vehicles unless (1) determined to be appropriate for their use > through completion of an analysis, review, and implementation > process, and (2) officially posted with signs as being open. > > <<> > > b.The process must include (1) application of objective criteria to > assess whether or not environmental quality can be effectively > maintained, and whether the safety and enjoyment of all users can > be protected; (2) a public review and comment procedure involving > all interested parties; and (3) promulgation of effective > implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that > vehicle use is appropriate. > c. Trails and areas designated for vehicular use must be monitored > periodically to detect environmental damage or user interference > inconsistent with the above criteria. Where this occurs, the trail > or area must be closed to vehicles unless effective corrective > regulations are enforced. > > <
> > > Background > > Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems > of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users > of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may > result in one or more of the following effects: > > All vehicles: > 1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. > Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and > fish habitat; b. Soil compaction and serious adverse impact on > flora and its regeneration; and c. Degradation of trails, including > rutting and breakdown of trail edges. > 2. Disruption of wildlife breeding and nesting habitats, especially > of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young; > 3. Disturbance of wildlife, leading to weakened physical condition, > death, and possible extinction of some species; > 4. Damage to archaeological, scientific, historical and other > significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with > irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interest for > scientific study; > 5. Facilitation of illegal hunting fishing and the talking of game > and non-game wildlife; > 6. Danger to the safety of other land users because of vehicle > speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail > surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and > 7. Competition with other land users: vehicle operators, with > their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of > scarce land per recreational user. > > Motorized vehicles: > 1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently > removed from any such sources; > 2 Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in > physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, > altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in most > circumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for > other users; > 3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization, operators of vehicles carry > more gear, with potential to leave more litter; > 4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with > increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and > 5. Fire: illegally or improperly operated vehicles can often create > a fire hazard on public or private lands. > > <> > > Mostly Bull, but some good points, too. Let's all watch and help > each other do it right. > > =================================================== > Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ====================================================Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Preston Stevens[SMTP:pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 10:07 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: INTRO and TWO CENTS - Jerry Wagner Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi Jerry, Up until this past September, I was the Director of Environmental Affairs for the United Four Wheel Drive Associations. A frustration postions to say the least. If I got nothing else from that position. I did get a real world education in public lands management and what is and what is not harmfu to the environment, if you will. Also, who our friends are and who are not. When We are being taken for a ride and when we are being dealt straight. As far as mining tearing things up. You have to take a holistic approach to this. Mining is messy. That is just the way it is. But, when they close, if they are on public land, it must be restored, at least somewhat. Without mining, you would not be driving, to see that awful mine. You would not have heat, electricity, cooking utencils or, well, just about anything. When you look at that ugly mine. Think of what it has done for you and your family. The jobs it has given to your fellow Americans. Think about how expensive things would be if they could not do that on public lands. Keep in mind one real important thought. While this sounds like nit-picking. No one can mine in the "Wilderness." Nor, can we drive, ride a bike or camp there. Unfortunately, in todays world, the term WIlderness now refers to a Congressional Designation of public lands that are locked up. It is restricted to all but non-mechanical use. That is another whole issue. Most folks in organized four wheel drive are conservationists. True environmetnalists, that actually go in the outdoors and back their words with actions. We are considered the most reliable sources of volunteer labor known. Many of us have already seen the Sierra Club's policy. But, it is appreciated all of the same. Stop for a minute, and read into that document. The bottom line. They want us all off of all public land. It is impossible to drive, walk, ride or even breath in the outdoors without having some kind of negative impacts. Our objective has to be to keep the impacts to roads and set aside areas. Be honest with yourself. How is a rut in a road hurting anything. Some Erosion is perfectly natural and has always been here. Why is it ok for nature to wash out a section of our outdoors. Yet, if we leave a tire track, we are endangering the environment. These are just a few thoughts to ponder on. Welcome to the fold. You can best enjoy four wheelin' with a club. You can contact the United Four Wheel Drive Associations at 1-800-44-UFWDA, or e-mail at ufwda1@aol.com or visit the United WEB Page at http//:www.ufwda.org. Hopefull, United can hook you up with a good club in your area, if you have not yet joined one. Good Luck! and Merry Christmas!!! On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, Jerry Wagner wrote: > Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > > Hello, All > My name is Jerry Wagner. I’m from Houston, TX. I’m only > lately involved in off-roading. I involve myself in restoration of > classic 4WD vehicles from a history/hobby standpoint. Like the rest > of you, however, the more I get off-road the closer I get to > becoming HARD-CORE. It just seems to get better each time!! > I confess that I am also a Semi-Greenie. In my travels around > New Mexico and West Texas I have seem incredible devastation of > what was beautiful wilderness by cattle operations, mining > operations, and sadly, irresponsible owners of off-road vehicles. I > am as much concerned by the explosion of off-road usage as by the > efforts of the Sierra Club, et al , to limit access to public > lands. > I believe that we, as responsible land users, have a two > front battle ahead of us. We must be diligent in our efforts to > retain our rights to responsible use of public lands, and when we > hear or see efforts by reactionary environmentalists to simply > exclude us out of hand, we must use our pens, voices, keyboards and > ballots to fight them. We also MUST pay attention to what they’re > saying and why. It is up to us to clean up our own acts before we > lose it all! If we continue to allow our fellow off-roaders to > damage public property that belongs to all of us then we will > continue to lose access to OUR lands. > I have attached excerpts of the Sierra Club’s policy on > off-road vehicle use of public lands. These are some of the reasons > they use to limit access only to areas THEY chose. We should all > address these items and eliminate them. If they have no evidence > of damage their case dies. > > ************ > Sierra Club Policy: Off-Road Use of > Vehicles > > The following policy on Off-Road Use of Vehicles has been adopted > by the Sierra Club Board of > Directors: > > <
> > > 2. Use of vehicles on other public lands: > a. Trails and areas on public lands should be closed to all > vehicles unless (1) determined to be appropriate for their use > through completion of an analysis, review, and implementation > process, and (2) officially posted with signs as being open. > > <<> > > b.The process must include (1) application of objective criteria to > assess whether or not environmental quality can be effectively > maintained, and whether the safety and enjoyment of all users can > be protected; (2) a public review and comment procedure involving > all interested parties; and (3) promulgation of effective > implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that > vehicle use is appropriate. > c. Trails and areas designated for vehicular use must be monitored > periodically to detect environmental damage or user interference > inconsistent with the above criteria. Where this occurs, the trail > or area must be closed to vehicles unless effective corrective > regulations are enforced. > > <
> > > Background > > Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems > of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users > of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may > result in one or more of the following effects: > > All vehicles: > 1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. > Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and > fish habitat; b. Soil compaction and serious adverse impact on > flora and its regeneration; and c. Degradation of trails, including > rutting and breakdown of trail edges. > 2. Disruption of wildlife breeding and nesting habitats, especially > of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young; > 3. Disturbance of wildlife, leading to weakened physical condition, > death, and possible extinction of some species; > 4. Damage to archaeological, scientific, historical and other > significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with > irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interest for > scientific study; > 5. Facilitation of illegal hunting fishing and the talking of game > and non-game wildlife; > 6. Danger to the safety of other land users because of vehicle > speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail > surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and > 7. Competition with other land users: vehicle operators, with > their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of > scarce land per recreational user. > > Motorized vehicles: > 1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently > removed from any such sources; > 2 Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in > physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, > altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in most > circumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for > other users; > 3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization, operators of vehicles carry > more gear, with potential to leave more litter; > 4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with > increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and > 5. Fire: illegally or improperly operated vehicles can often create > a fire hazard on public or private lands. > > <> > > Mostly Bull, but some good points, too. Let's all watch and help > each other do it right. > > > > ==========================Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com > Preston Stevens pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us United FWDA Director of Marketing Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Association Baltimore 4 Wheelers, Inc., Conservation/Land Use Director 1979 CJ7 Jeep ====================================================Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Jeepndawn@aol.com[SMTP:Jeepndawn@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 7:37 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: INTRO and TWO CENTS - Jerry Wagner Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Welcome aboard Jerry ! Glad to have you with us. Thanks for the snips from the Sierra Club......it's always a good idea to see what "they" are saying as well. And, you're right....they do have a few good points....I don't think groups like Sierra are ALL bad....they do some very good things for the community and environment.....the problems come in when they take it too far & try to decide what THEY think is best for ALL. Clubs like this, and the media as well have created an image of 4-wheelers (or any OHRVs) that is far from favorable. Just look at the TV ads for the new 4x4s.....they usually show some vehicle driving at high speeds & kicking up a lot of dust. If that's all the public sees....that's what they'll believe. It's up to us to show them what it's really all about. I'm not familiar with the terrain in your area, but here in New England, the only thing high speeds will get you is a broken vehicle....or worse, a broken driver! I can usually walk a trail faster than I can drive it......so much for their version of "speed", huh ? Take Care & Tread Lightly!......Dawn ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Sugar Fields[SMTP:ec4wda@fuse.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 2:26 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: INTRO and TWO CENTS - Jerry Wagner Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Jerry Wagner wrote: > > Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > > Hello, All > My name is Jerry Wagner. I’m from Houston, TX. I’m only > lately involved in off-roading. I involve myself in restoration of > classic 4WD vehicles from a history/hobby standpoint. Like the rest > of you, however, the more I get off-road the closer I get to > becoming HARD-CORE. It just seems to get better each time!! > I confess that I am also a Semi-Greenie. In my travels around > New Mexico and West Texas I have seem incredible devastation of > what was beautiful wilderness by cattle operations, mining > operations, and sadly, irresponsible owners of off-road vehicles. I > am as much concerned by the explosion of off-road usage as by the > efforts of the Sierra Club, et al , to limit access to public > lands. > I believe that we, as responsible land users, have a two > front battle ahead of us. We must be diligent in our efforts to > retain our rights to responsible use of public lands, and when we > hear or see efforts by reactionary environmentalists to simply > exclude us out of hand, we must use our pens, voices, keyboards and > ballots to fight them. We also MUST pay attention to what they’re > saying and why. It is up to us to clean up our own acts before we > lose it all! If we continue to allow our fellow off-roaders to > damage public property that belongs to all of us then we will > continue to lose access to OUR lands. > I have attached excerpts of the Sierra Club’s policy on > off-road vehicle use of public lands. These are some of the reasons > they use to limit access only to areas THEY chose. We should all > address these items and eliminate them. If they have no evidence > of damage their case dies. > > ************ > Sierra Club Policy: Off-Road Use of > Vehicles > > The following policy on Off-Road Use of Vehicles has been adopted > by the Sierra Club Board of > Directors: > > <
> > > 2. Use of vehicles on other public lands: > a. Trails and areas on public lands should be closed to all > vehicles unless (1) determined to be appropriate for their use > through completion of an analysis, review, and implementation > process, and (2) officially posted with signs as being open. > > <<> > > b.The process must include (1) application of objective criteria to > assess whether or not environmental quality can be effectively > maintained, and whether the safety and enjoyment of all users can > be protected; (2) a public review and comment procedure involving > all interested parties; and (3) promulgation of effective > implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that > vehicle use is appropriate. > c. Trails and areas designated for vehicular use must be monitored > periodically to detect environmental damage or user interference > inconsistent with the above criteria. Where this occurs, the trail > or area must be closed to vehicles unless effective corrective > regulations are enforced. > > <
> > > Background > > Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems > of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users > of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may > result in one or more of the following effects: > > All vehicles: > 1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. > Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and > fish habitat; b. Soil compaction and serious adverse impact on > flora and its regeneration; and c. Degradation of trails, including > rutting and breakdown of trail edges. > 2. Disruption of wildlife breeding and nesting habitats, especially > of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young; > 3. Disturbance of wildlife, leading to weakened physical condition, > death, and possible extinction of some species; > 4. Damage to archaeological, scientific, historical and other > significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with > irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interest for > scientific study; > 5. Facilitation of illegal hunting fishing and the talking of game > and non-game wildlife; > 6. Danger to the safety of other land users because of vehicle > speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail > surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and > 7. Competition with other land users: vehicle operators, with > their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of > scarce land per recreational user. > > Motorized vehicles: > 1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently > removed from any such sources; > 2 Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in > physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, > altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in most > circumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for > other users; > 3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization, operators of vehicles carry > more gear, with potential to leave more litter; > 4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with > increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and > 5. Fire: illegally or improperly operated vehicles can often create > a fire hazard on public or private lands. > > <> > > Mostly Bull, but some good points, too. Let's all watch and help > each other do it right. > > ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ > Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com Jerry, I really don't think that any of us have our heads buried in the sand! We all realize that we have 4 wheelers and other OHV'ers out there that just don't care. The problems are complex, I will say many are just not informed and common sense has to play a role in being responsible. Media info about OHV's portrays abusive operation as the norm. We all know this portrait is a rough one to counter. It isn't something that we can change in a day or who knows how long, but we have to keep trying. Our East Coast Association has tried for the past few years to make ourselves more visible at 4x4 Jamborees, Car Shows, Mall Show, Show & Shine activities where we can talk to people, tell them what we stand for and explain some of these problems and try to get them interested in joining or forming a club that does practice responsible educated off roading. It would be great if all the responsible clubs or individuals could work with their local public land personel, set up a working relationship and earn a "sticker". If we have a sticker we earn the right of use, if someone is caught doing something wrong and abusing with no sticker then chase them or make it bad enough that they don't return. BUT who in the world and how in the world could something like this be policed? I think we need to be in places where we can let people know we are striving to do what is right and keep our lands open responsibly. I also think this type of network is a great outlet. Have you noticed the number of "intro's" from people who are new to the sport, who don't belong to clubs that have been around for awile and know what our problems are? They are watching us discuss the problems and join together to make a voice heard. How many of them do you think we will reach and teach responsibility? How many will they reach by word of mouth? I think it is worth a try, for sure we need all the help we can muster up. You are right, we have a major problem with those who abuse and believe me it is not a new one. We have been involved for more than 30 years and for the past 15 the call to do something about it has become louder and louder. We need the numbers, the letters, the clubs and the individuals who know or who are willing to learn that to be responsible in our off-roading is our only hope. We need people who will come together and work with their local land personel to show them that we are out here and willing to give a hand and prove responsible off roaders do exist. Don't sell us short when it comes to knowing that we have a problem. Del would most likely agree, we have been around for a lot of years just waiting for an opportunity like this network to make our voices just a bit louder! Thanks for your imput and may your holidays be blessed and happy ones, enjoy your families and keep your new year of off roading safe and responsible! Write those letters, make yourself visible and educated! Sugar EC4WDA ====================================================Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: JOWagner@gnn.com[SMTP:JOWagner@gnn.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 6:41 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: INTRO and TWO CENTS - Jerry Wagner Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello, All My name is Jerry Wagner. I’m from Houston, TX. I’m only lately involved in off-roading. I involve myself in restoration of classic 4WD vehicles from a history/hobby standpoint. Like the rest of you, however, the more I get off-road the closer I get to becoming HARD-CORE. It just seems to get better each time!! I confess that I am also a Semi-Greenie. In my travels around New Mexico and West Texas I have seem incredible devastation of what was beautiful wilderness by cattle operations, mining operations, and sadly, irresponsible owners of off-road vehicles. I am as much concerned by the explosion of off-road usage as by the efforts of the Sierra Club, et al , to limit access to public lands. I believe that we, as responsible land users, have a two front battle ahead of us. We must be diligent in our efforts to retain our rights to responsible use of public lands, and when we hear or see efforts by reactionary environmentalists to simply exclude us out of hand, we must use our pens, voices, keyboards and ballots to fight them. We also MUST pay attention to what they’re saying and why. It is up to us to clean up our own acts before we lose it all! If we continue to allow our fellow off-roaders to damage public property that belongs to all of us then we will continue to lose access to OUR lands. I have attached excerpts of the Sierra Club’s policy on off-road vehicle use of public lands. These are some of the reasons they use to limit access only to areas THEY chose. We should all address these items and eliminate them. If they have no evidence of damage their case dies. ************ Sierra Club Policy: Off-Road Use of Vehicles The following policy on Off-Road Use of Vehicles has been adopted by the Sierra Club Board of Directors: <
> 2. Use of vehicles on other public lands: a. Trails and areas on public lands should be closed to all vehicles unless (1) determined to be appropriate for their use through completion of an analysis, review, and implementation process, and (2) officially posted with signs as being open. <<> b.The process must include (1) application of objective criteria to assess whether or not environmental quality can be effectively maintained, and whether the safety and enjoyment of all users can be protected; (2) a public review and comment procedure involving all interested parties; and (3) promulgation of effective implementing regulations where impacts are sufficiently low that vehicle use is appropriate. c. Trails and areas designated for vehicular use must be monitored periodically to detect environmental damage or user interference inconsistent with the above criteria. Where this occurs, the trail or area must be closed to vehicles unless effective corrective regulations are enforced. <
> Background Off-road use of vehicles can present serious and special problems of impact on the environment and incompatibility with other users of the land. Experience has shown that off-road use of vehicles may result in one or more of the following effects: All vehicles: 1. Physical soil damage, often readily visible, resulting in: a. Erosion, causing soil loss and damage to stream banks, streams, and fish habitat; b. Soil compaction and serious adverse impact on flora and its regeneration; and c. Degradation of trails, including rutting and breakdown of trail edges. 2. Disruption of wildlife breeding and nesting habitats, especially of vulnerable species, resulting in loss of young; 3. Disturbance of wildlife, leading to weakened physical condition, death, and possible extinction of some species; 4. Damage to archaeological, scientific, historical and other significant sites, and damage to natural features, sometimes with irreversible effects, especially on rare features of interest for scientific study; 5. Facilitation of illegal hunting fishing and the talking of game and non-game wildlife; 6. Danger to the safety of other land users because of vehicle speed, steep terrain, sharp curves, slippery or unstable trail surfaces, and/or limited visibility; and 7. Competition with other land users: vehicle operators, with their increased mobility, generally use a greater quantity of scarce land per recreational user. Motorized vehicles: 1. Introduction of air and water pollution to areas presently removed from any such sources; 2 Excessive noise, which, in close proximity, may result in physiological effects on animals and humans, or may induce anxiety, altering animal behavior patterns, and which, in most circumstances, seriously degrades the solitude of wild areas for other users; 3. Litter: by virtue of mechanization, operators of vehicles carry more gear, with potential to leave more litter; 4. Vandalism: motorized ease of access is often coupled with increase of acts of vandalism on public and private property; and 5. Fire: illegally or improperly operated vehicles can often create a fire hazard on public or private lands. <> Mostly Bull, but some good points, too. Let's all watch and help each other do it right. ====================================================Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Del Albright[SMTP:jeepndel@goldrush.com] Sent: Monday, January 20, 1997 1:45 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: Intro letter Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Alan...thanks for the great intro....but help me out here with some of the abbrevs... ??? IFWDA , KFWDA, TL, Thanks, DEL ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: N24WD@aol.com[SMTP:N24WD@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, January 18, 1997 10:53 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Cc: N24WD@aol.com Subject: Intro letter Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com To Del and others, I thank you for allowing access to this forum for interested enthusiasts. As many of you know, I am the new Director of Environmental Affairs for the UFWDA. I have been the Director of E.A. for the Indiana 4WDA for the past 6 years. As an outdoor and 4wd enthusiast, I enjoy many recreational activities. But, as many of you know, being involved in the administative part of our sport, we don'y get a lot of time to enjoy our pursuits of happiness. I have been on the Statewide Comprehensive Outdoor Recreation Plan (SCORP) subcommittee for Environmental Impacts and the Indiana trails 2000 Planning Committee for the past several years. These are where decisions are made effecting our interests. I also serve on the Indiana Trails Advisory Board representing 4wd users. The IDNR is in the process of setting up an OHV Task Force to proceed on an OHV/ORV Park, which was a suggested part of Indiana Trails 2000. The State coalition we helped to get formed 3 years ago has helped immensely, Discover Indiana Riding Trails (DIRT). They are also involved with the NOHVCC. That a partial list of ongoing participation, just in my State. My wife Brenda & I have 3 Toyotas: 1974 FJ40 (72,000mi), 1990 4Runner (147,000mi) & 1996 Tacoma (17,000mi). Some of the Clobs/Organizations I belong too: UFWDA, IFWDA, DIRT, KFWDA, BRC, TLCA, TL, Indiana Sportsmen's Roundtable, dropping BASS this year for the American Rights Coalition, National Arbor Day Foundation, American Trails, Land Between the Lakes Assn. and my local Club Tri-State 4 Wheelers. I am affiliated with others and communicate with others. The philosophy behind the LUN is of importance to everyone who has an interest in our future. Hopefully, they reference this information and share it with others. Direct participation by everyone isn't possible, but, passing info on to others is. This sharing/networking is paramount to the well being of our recreational pursuits. To effect a change in our opportunities, we have to participate in the decision making process, locally, regionally and nationally. Thank you, Alan Lane N24WD@aol.com Fax 812/477-5093 P.O.Box 3553 Evansville, IN 47734 Del, add Indiana to your impressive growing list of interested enthusiasts. ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Del Albright[SMTP:jeepndel@goldrush.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 1:31 AM To: 'Landuse' Subject: Intro: Derek Cooper Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com ---------- From: Derek Cooper[SMTP:coop@ridgecrest.ca.us] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 8:08 PM To: albright Subject: Intro My name is Derek Cooper and my hobbies are numerous. I 4 wheel, hunt, prospect and sight see on our public lands. I am the webmaster of the High Desert Multiple Use Coalition (HDMUC). I work with Ron Schiller the founder of the HDMUC closely. I am also a member of the Gear Grinders 4x4 club, Cal4 wheel, Blue Ribbon Coalition and People for the west. I have worked, when available, on the local BLM steering committee for past two years. I consider myself an enviromentalist and a responsible user of our Public lands but I am appauled by what is being done by the green groups and our federal government. I am being thrown off "OUR" public lands by a group of greedy, rich, power hungry elitists. I'm fed up with it and am ready to start turning the tide in our favor. I believe the net is the most effective way to get us organized and let our voices be heard in washington and at the federal agencies. Lets get it on. Derek Cooper ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Del Albright[SMTP:jeepndel@goldrush.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 8:48 PM To: 'Landuse' Subject: Intro: Rob Thompson Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com ---------- From: Rob Thompson[SMTP:rthompsn@mother.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 12:45 AM To: Del Albright Subject: Intro Hi Del. My rigs are a '52 M38A1, an unknown year Willys Wagon that's still in a friend's shopyard, and a '64 Bel Air Wagon. My hometown is Woodland, California. I am new to four-wheeling, and don't have a club, but Dean Waters recommended your club, but I never got around to talking to you about it. Where do you meet? My hobbies include computers and paintballing. Rob Thompson ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: hofs@goldrush.com[SMTP:hofs@goldrush.com] Sent: Monday, January 13, 1997 1:40 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: introducing myself Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Welcome Darrell, I'm in Murphys, just south of you. My Scout did the Rubicon once and the remaining parts aren't ever going to do it again. We do a lot of Nevada, Arizona, and Utah 4-wheeling and it sounds as if that's the direction that you are headed after you experience some more of our great-but-being-closed-off-fast California desert 4-wheeling. Which brings us to the point of this network. Anyway, welcome. John John Hofstetter aka Ol' Saline Charter Member, Friends of Death Valley Blue Ribbon Coalition (as of 1/9/97 Life Member, National Rifle Association California Rifle and Pistol Association Life Member,Association of California School Administrators MacTwain, the Tuolumne County Macintosh Users Group Sierra Macintosh Users Group Proud Owner of 79 International Scout "It's a Legend !" ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Darrell Creeks[SMTP:dcreeks@calweb.com] Sent: Friday, January 10, 1997 8:31 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: introducing myself Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com My name is Darrell Creeks. I was born and raised in Georgetown Ca, and I'll probably die here. I've been involved in four wheeling all of my life. I took my first to the Rubicon when I was four(the trails changed a bit). For the last eight years I've owned an '83 toyota pickup. Obviously I've been on the Rubicon bizillion times, and the Fordyce trail is the only other trail I've been on. I want to go on other trails but they are to far away isn't good for long distances with 5:71 gears. I want to keep our roads open but I must admit I don't no much about how, I guess I'll just read and learn. Darrell ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Preston Stevens[SMTP:pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 1997 10:43 PM To: David C. McCormack Cc: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi Dave, You have a very valuable talent, for sure. Please consider contacting the good folks in the Wisconsin Four Wheel Drive Association (Ken Dibble 414-474-7407) and/or the Midwest Four Wheel Drive Association (Catrhy Emrick 507-685-2537 or Dave Jones 612-224-7107) These are a fine group of people and you all could do a lot for each other. The United Four Wheel Drive Associations just hired on a young lady with a very simular background as yours. Currently she is going for her Virginia Bar. She has completed the Environmental LAnd Management education. Hopefully, you two can hook up as well. Welcome aboard, for sure!! Stay Warm!!! Preston Stevens pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us United FWDA Director of Marketing Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Association Baltimore 4 Wheelers, Inc., Conservation/Land Use Director 1979 CJ7 Jeep ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Matthew J. Westrich[SMTP:bigsgt@bitcorp.net] Sent: Thursday, January 16, 1997 8:50 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com David C. McCormack wrote: > > Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > > Hi all, > > I'm new to the list - I'm an attorney practicing environmental and > business law in Brookfield, WI (near Milwaukee). I'm fairly new to four > wheeling but have become very interested in it. As an enviro attorney I'm > used to seeing agency personnel use their own interpetation of the law and > their ability to make regulations and issue agency guidance documents to > further their own agendas. I am very aware of the gulf between what the law > says and what agencies think it says. I strongly feel that public lands > should be open to any form of reasonable recreation that does not unduly > interfere with other's recreation. I feel that responsible wheeling is a > legitimate form of recreation and should be welcomed by land managers. > > I drive a Land Rover Discovery, only mod so far is a Warn winch > (bull bar soon). Most of my wheeling activity is related to hunting and > fishing. I'm about to join the Chicagoland Land Rover Rover Owners Club. > Other memeberships include Ducks Unlimited and Safari Club International, > Wisconsin Chapter. > > Dave > David C. McCormack > Hinshaw & Culbertson > 175 N. Patrick Blvd. Suite 115 > Brookfield, WI 53045 > (414)792-9150 > (414)792-9154 (fax) > dmccorma@execpc.com > > ===================================================== > Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com Feel free to join us in Utah any time for some wheeling Big Sgt Matthew J. Westrich Pres. Big Horn 4X4 Club V-P Utah 4WD Assoc. V-P Northern Utah React ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: David C. McCormack[SMTP:dmccorma@execpc.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 1997 7:38 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi all, I'm new to the list - I'm an attorney practicing environmental and business law in Brookfield, WI (near Milwaukee). I'm fairly new to four wheeling but have become very interested in it. As an enviro attorney I'm used to seeing agency personnel use their own interpetation of the law and their ability to make regulations and issue agency guidance documents to further their own agendas. I am very aware of the gulf between what the law says and what agencies think it says. I strongly feel that public lands should be open to any form of reasonable recreation that does not unduly interfere with other's recreation. I feel that responsible wheeling is a legitimate form of recreation and should be welcomed by land managers. I drive a Land Rover Discovery, only mod so far is a Warn winch (bull bar soon). Most of my wheeling activity is related to hunting and fishing. I'm about to join the Chicagoland Land Rover Rover Owners Club. Other memeberships include Ducks Unlimited and Safari Club International, Wisconsin Chapter. Dave David C. McCormack Hinshaw & Culbertson 175 N. Patrick Blvd. Suite 115 Brookfield, WI 53045 (414)792-9150 (414)792-9154 (fax) dmccorma@execpc.com ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Blewett Automotive[SMTP:jeff4x4@lodinet.com] Sent: Saturday, January 04, 1997 2:20 AM To: 'landuse@off-road.com' Subject: introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com My name is Jeff Blewett I live in Lodi California and have been off roading for 15 years. I am a member of the Joaquin Jeepers and CA4WDC. I was the 1995 and 1996 Sierra Trek chairman and currently CA4WDC State Safety/Education chairman. I love the rocks but I have a special thing for the sand, Sand mnt., Pismo (Oceano Dunes) and Glamis looks awesome maybe I will get there someday. I am currently running for the North District Vice President position on the CA4WDC Board of Directors. I think this landuse network is a great idea and hope to be able to contribute. Thats all for now. Jeff Blewett jeff4x4@lodinet.com 209-334-4083 ====================================================Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: SandJC[SMTP:SandJC@perkin-elmer.com] Sent: Friday, January 03, 1997 12:04 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi all! My name is Joe Sand, and I have been on the list for a few weeks now...you may have seen me. I have a better idea now of the list makeup, so I thought I'd fill you in about my background. I came here via the offroad list. I am a electronic manufacturing engineer in the biotech industry, and my background is in aerospace. My first exposure to the outdoors was backpacking in the Sierras with my father, who was a member of the Sierra Club. In the '60's the SC did lots of good things, among which were organized family backpacking trips free from any indoctrination. They were educational and fun. In the '70's I got into motorcycling, going through a number of Honda's: Trail 70, SL125, MT250. We rode in the Sierras, around Clear Lake, and I hit most of the dirt spaces south of San Francisco. We also did a lot of riding in the Santa Cruz mountains, until a law was passed outlawing all offroad travel in Santa Cruz County. This came a quite a blow to me, since I didn't understand what was wrong with following existing trails, and was my first education into what environmentalism really means. In the '80's my motorcycling went street with a CB 750F, an old 305 Scrambler, and an Aspencade, and my offroading went 4x4. I bought my '83CJ7 in '85. I also got my first mountain bike back then, and while I don't use it offroad that much, I'd like to be able to in the future! And that's where I am today, a jeeper and a dreamer. I also got married and had a couple of kids, aged 2 and 5, so this has slowed be down a bit, but I have big plans!... Joe Sand ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: hofs@goldrush.com[SMTP:hofs@goldrush.com] Sent: Saturday, December 21, 1996 6:12 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello Everybody, I've been reading my landuse mail and I'm tired, but Del expects me to do this so, I'm: Retired Educator 8th Grade Teacher Basketball, Football, and Softball Coach Principal in one school for 17 years Assistant Superintendent Photography Instructor Columbia Junior College Environmental Studies Instructor and Specialist Programs associated with CSU, Sacramento, Davis, and others Travelstudy Instructor 32 years to Death Valley Area Desert Lover Spent most vacations in California,Nevada, Utah, and Arizona deserts whether I was conducting classes or not. Four Wheeler since the Dark Ages Disabled since infancy, so 4WD vehicle has always meant the difference to me of seeing it or not seeing it. Technology Teach Macintosh and other technology classes and do consulting with schools. Friend of the "seldom seen" Our, my wife, Wanda and my particular thing in the desert was (is) getting to know the people of the desert. Strong ties to many characters of the Death Valley region although sadly, most of them are now gone. We've drank their "magic mushroom" teas, admired their cartridge loading without the benefit of measuring devices, read their so-right-wing-it-made-me-feel-like-a-liberal literature and in general loved them for their independence and stalwartness. John Hofstetter aka Ol' Saline Charter Member, Friends of Death Valley Life Member, National Rifle Association California Rifle and Pistol Association Life Member,Association of California School Administrators MacTwain, the Tuolumne County Macintosh Users Group Sierra Macintosh Users Group Proud Owner of 79 International Scout "It's a Legend !" ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: John Brabyn[SMTP:cyberkiwi@earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 11:15 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi folks -- it's a pleasure to join this list -- sincere thanks and congratulations to Del Albright and Off-Road.com for setting it up! My name is John Brabyn, and I generally go four wheeling in the desert areas of California and Nevada (I live in the San Francisco Bay Area). I got into four wheeling through my interest in photographing ghost towns. My weapons of choice are a Hasselblad and a Range Rover which, when I started using it, was about the only one to be seen in the back country. (It was also the first one to appear in Four Wheeler Magazine's "Readers' Rigs"). Like most of you folks, I have become increasingly concerned about the impact of such measures as the recent California Desert Act on our ability to go exploring on public lands, roads and trails. I started writing letters on a fairly large scale prior to the desert act's passage, but of course did not succeed in stopping it! The establishment of this list is a great way to magnify and coordinate our various efforts to turn back the tide. I'm looking forward to participating. Keep up the good work John John Brabyn, Ph.D., Friends of Death Valley Land Rover Owners' Association CA4WDC ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: crash1@iwaynet.net[SMTP:crash1@iwaynet.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 2:14 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com I've been so buisy reading the flood of mail that I haven't had time to introduce myself. I am Jenny Gayheart, but my fellow four wheeler's call me "Crash" please feel free to do so. I belong to two clubs in Ohio, who inturn belong to East Coast 4WD Assocation - Region "C". I am privileged to have a voice on the Region's Board of Officer's, as well as be an area advisor for those unattached four wheel drive enthusiast's who want to find or form clubs in this area. I own 2 four wheel drives, an 87 Bronco II and a 74 CJ5 which has been rollover tested (hence the nickname). My experiences have caused me to be sort of a poster child for safety. I can't say that I have that much experience, since I joined my first club only 4 years ago, but I can say that I have left my mark on the sport. I am serving on Ohio's Recreational Trail Grants Advisory Board, representing the 4WD user's in Ohio. Through that I have learned that it is not just 4WD's that are meeting with opposition, but ALL motorized user's. So to aid our efforts I contact and share information with other clubs and organizations such as the quads, dirt bikes, and rail buggy's. I'd better stop there before I start sounding like a politician! Nice to meet all of you! Sincerely. Jenny "Crash" Gayheart Do-er's 4WD Club, "Doing More For The Sport!" Southeastern Buckeye Four Wheeler's East Coast 4WD Assoc. Ohio Recreational Trail Grants Advisory Board Four Low News Publications Blue Ribbon Coalition Buckeye Multi-User Information Network ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Robert Jennings[SMTP:BKWUDZ@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 6:55 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi everybody, I'm Bob Jennings & live in New Hampshire. I own a mechanical contracting company that employ's on the average, 27 people. This allows me the time to write to our elected officials on anything from landclosure issues to second ammendment rights. I usually send letters out on company letterhead & get very quick responses. I've been involved in offroad activities since 1969 when I purchased my first dirt bike. In 1973 I got tired of getting beat up riding dirt bikes & bought my first 4 wheel drive pick up & have owned a 4 wheeler ever since.. Growing up in the country I always spent time with my dad hunting, fishing & camping. Dad always had a 4 wheeler, be it the Scout, the CJ5 or the Jeep Camando???. After spending 3 years in Colorado I moved back east in 83, bought a boat, got involved in tuna fishing, & didn't wheel for 10 years. I sold the boat in 93, bought a Wrangler to destroy, joined an organized club & was astonished at the public's perception of this sport, boy things sure had changed in 10 years! Until a year ago I had never pounded a keyboard before & now I'm sure glad this "plastic box" sits in front of me in the library. Let's give em hell!!!! Bob Jennings Granite State 4 Wheelers ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Sugar Fields[SMTP:ec4wda@fuse.net] Sent: Monday, December 16, 1996 12:14 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com My name is Sugar Fields, I am the fingers of EC4WDA on line. The East Coast 4 Wheel Drive Association is made up of 60 clubs in 11 states from Ct. to Ky. and from Mi.down to Indiana and back to the Atlantic Ocean. Members compete under EC4WDA sanction on club grounds throughout the association. We trailride, do Community Service/Land Use Projects and are active in letter writting campaigns having to do with issues, legislation or anything else that impacts on any aspect of our off road sports, especially from a 4x4 viewpoint. We are happy to add our 1900 membership count to the growing list of responsible, educated 4 wheelers. Sugar Fields Executive Board Member of EC4WDA Member of Region C Mid-America of EC4WDA Member and EC4WDA Delegate of I.O.K. Four Wheelers Inc. Active organizer of Gravelrama, America's Annual 4 WD Happening Member of Do-er's 4 WD Club, Doing more for the sport Member of Four Fun Four Wheelers of Michigan Member of Blue Ribbon Coalition Member of Tread Lightly ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: David Borum[SMTP:N24Wheel@usit.net] Sent: Sunday, December 15, 1996 7:10 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello everyone, My name is David Borum. I'm Director of Legislative Affairs for Southern Four Wheel Drive Association. I've been four-wheeling for 21 years and have seen many lands closed to OHV use. This can and must be turned around and that is what networks like this are all about. Thanks and I look foward to working with each one of you in the future. See ya David ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Del Albright[SMTP:jeepndel@goldrush.com] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 1996 10:53 AM To: 'landuse@off-road.com' Subject: RE: Introduction To Jim Guld: thank you for joining us and a special thanks for the contribution to the Legal Fund set up by Blue Ribbon. We hate to have to go that way; but we need to have that ace in the hole if we need to use it....our opponents have sure as heck used this technique to their advantage......I trust the BRC to use this process only when they need to, and when it will be most effective. Thanks again, DEL Del Albright (jeepndel@goldrush.com) 1982 CJ-7 DV SALLY CA4WDC United Four Wheel Drive Assoc. Tread Lightly Mother Lode Rockcrawlers Friends of Death Valley Ducks Unlimited Death Valley Natural History Assoc. California Desert Coalition Golden Ram Sportsmen Club Blue Ribbon Coalition High Desert Multiple Use Coalition Historic Access Recovery Project Board of Directors, Blue Ribbon Coalition Moderator, Off Road Com Land Use Network List ---------- From: James Guld[SMTP:jguld@dti.net] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 1996 2:29 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello all: I'm Jim Guld and I'm the Land Use Chairman for our club,so I decided that this list would be a good addition to my mailing lists. I live in NYC but through 4 wheeling get out to the north/south to see the trails and meet tons of new people. Presently I've been trying to find out more about the NTRFA and who is on the planning board for NY State. So far I haven't had any luck with finding out this information. If anyone knows who to write to concerning this,please e mail me. Thanks. I would also like to announce that our club Long Island Off-Road voted at our last meeting to donate funds to the Blue Ribbon Coalition's legal fund drive. We feel that the use of the courts might be the way that we'll have to go,as 4 wheelers that is. Jim Guld LIOR Club EC4WDA U4WDA EBR#563 Mr.Ed's owner ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: jguld@dti.net[SMTP:jguld@dti.net] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 1996 10:29 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello all: I'm Jim Guld and I'm the Land Use Chairman for our club,so I decided that this list would be a good addition to my mailing lists. I live in NYC but through 4 wheeling get out to the north/south to see the trails and meet tons of new people. Presently I've been trying to find out more about the NTRFA and who is on the planning board for NY State. So far I haven't had any luck with finding out this information. If anyone knows who to write to concerning this,please e mail me. Thanks. I would also like to announce that our club Long Island Off-Road voted at our last meeting to donate funds to the Blue Ribbon Coalition's legal fund drive. We feel that the use of the courts might be the way that we'll have to go,as 4 wheelers that is. Jim Guld LIOR Club EC4WDA U4WDA EBR#563 Mr.Ed's owner ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: norm lenhart[SMTP:lenhart@rippers.com] Sent: Thursday, January 02, 1997 4:00 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introduction- Norm Lenhart Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello ! Im Norm Lenhart, the editor for Off-Road.com's VW's & Sand Cars area. I am a longtime off-roader who watched 6 million acres of useful land fall prey to the Adirondack Park Agency, when only a small fraction of that was neccacary. I now live in the most embattled area of the contenental united states. The Mojave Desert. It would seem I fell out of the frying pan and into the fire, but dont be fooled. The APA can give the BLM a lesson or two on eco terrorism. Aside from my work at Off-Road.com, you can count on me as a regular contributor to this list. I have a goal, and I want each of you to help me acomplish it. When you hear it, I think you will. It is my goal to bring EVERY land rights, off-road , hunting, gun, cattle, lumber, paper, mining farming ect group TOGETHER under 1 BANNER. Yes it's loftly, but it has to be done. No it won't happen tomorow. But consider this. There are millions of us . We outnumber the eco terrorists several to one. We all vote. Our potential financial powerbase is staggering. And you know the most driving part to my arguemant ? Its our land and our rights that are being taken. One thing we must avoid at all costs is bickering and infighting. We must all come together as ONE group. Please take some time and consider what I have said. As we go on, I will do everything in my power to bring it all about. I hope you will join me. I also encourage you to join groups in your area which promote wize use, land rights and Common sense environmentalism. Remember we will win through org1nization. Further, if you all could, I would appreciate any and all media on land use issues in your respective areas. If you could, please forward them to me E-mail. This is at your option of course, but I'd be eternally grateful Sincerly, Norm Lenhart Editor / Writer VW&SC - Off-Road.com " The Best Dirt on the Net " ! VW's & Sand Cars http://www.off-road.com/vw/ Off-Road.com http://www.off-road.com/ ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Randy & Kathy Peterson[SMTP:RKPete@concentric.net] Sent: Monday, December 30, 1996 1:41 PM To: landuse-digest@unix.off-road.com Subject: Introduction, Randy & Kathy Peterson Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi, My name is Randy Peterson. My wife Kathy and I live in Santa Margarita, CA, USA. We are both members of the San Luis Obispo 4- Wheelers and past members of the Gold Coast 4-Wheelers. We have maintained membership in the California Association of 4-Wheel Drive Clubs for the most part since the'70's. About two years ago we joined the Blue Ribbon Coalition. Our awareness of the Mojave Desert area has been sharpened by joining The Friends of the Mojave Road and contributing to the California Desert Coalition. In the past I have held nearly every office in the Gold Coast 4- Wheelers club, been very active with CA4WDC, and have seen the power of the environmental extremists and their impact on OHV use at Pismo Beach. Kathy is currently the Secretary for the SLO 4-Wheelers. I am currently the Land Use Liaison for the San Luis Obispo County 4-Wheelers (a position I have served in for 2-years now). As such I meet monthly with CCORE (Central Coast Off Road Coalition) and the Los Padres National Forest, Santa Lucia Ranger District Ranger or her representative. CCORE consists of representatives from the local 4-Wheel Drive & Motorcycle clubs (Central Coast Motorcycle Assn., Dirt First, Gold Coast 4- Wheelers, Santa Maria 4-Wheelers, Poly Goats, Poly Penguins & San Luis 4-wheelers). These meetings have been on going monthly for about two years now, have greatly improved communications & relations between the local forest ranger district and OHV recreation users and have resulted in redesignation of 2 OHV routes for use by 4-Wheel drive vehicles. Del's "welcome to the list" note stated: > Our philosophy: Dedicated to: >1. Responsible multiple use of our lands and natural > resources; >2. Non-use of appropriate areas; >3. Educating our politicians and our fellow users; > and >4. Conservation of our resources and opportunities > to enjoy them. It is my beliefe that OHV recreationalists should come together as a group, well educated, well organized and focus on the unwarranted exclusion of Off Road Recreation from public lands that is Steamrollering its way across the United States piloted by environmental extremists in the form of the Desert Conservation act, the Utah Wilderness bill, the Desert Tortus habitat preservation area, ect, ect...... Randy Peterson RKPete@concentric.net '82 CJ-7 SLO 4-Wheelers Land Use Liasion ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Brett Davis[SMTP:bdavis@burgoyne.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 1996 1:02 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: Introductions Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > got married I convinced my husband that 4 wheelin was a fun way to > spend time as a family. Our neighbors say we have gone crazy. We > have a number of 4x4's in our family. > Here is a list: > '76 Chev shortbed truck > '76 CJ5 (winch, 4.5 lift, 35x12.50" tires, I6, 18 year olds daily driver) > '80 CJ5 (winch, 3" lift, 33x12.50" tires, I6, 22 year old daily driver) > '87 Suzuki Samurai (winch, 4" lift, 31x10.50" tires, lockrite in rear, rock > lobster transfer case reduction, husbands daily driver) > '92 Wranger ( winch, 4" lift, 32x11.50" tires, limited slip in rear, my daily > driver) > '93 Wranger (2.5" lift, 32x11.50" tires, daughter-in-laws daily driver) I'm so jealous! Actually I grew up in a four wheelin family (fueled mainly by me). We are getting close, I have a 4x4 chev (selling) and an 81 scrambler (building), my sis has a 91 wrangler, and kid bro has an 88 sammi. both of these are stock, but not for long. Sis took the sammi over Strike Ravine last year with only the antisway disconnected, and then sold it to bro and bought the jeep. I used to have a sammi too, 5", lockrite, 31s.(and a cherokee and a blazer and a ...) and my parents want to get another SUV (they had a blazer and a bronco when I was growing up) so soon we'll have enough seats for everyone to go along (with a back seat in the scrambler) Anyway, sounds like you have your own private club (your family-best club you can get) anyways, but you are welcome, as Glenn wrote, to hook up with us, or check out Lone Peak. Nice to have you on the list! -- Brett Davis __________ Pres Utah 4x4 Association bdavis@burgoyne.com Jeepscrambl|\\ Storm Mountain 4x4 / |e| \\ Red Rock 4 Wheelers Assoc. ______________ / |r|__\\_______________ (Chevrolet 396 | / frame and body | """"""""""\ |_________/ /"""""""""\ | [ a m p \SM465trannyNP205case/ a m p \----] w e w e s dana44 r s 14bolt r b r b r o g g e o g g e ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: gwbuild@allwest.net[SMTP:gwbuild@allwest.net] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 1:19 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: Introductions Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com >I don't belong to any clubs or 4x4 organizations. This is a family >preference since we have not found one that our family can enjoy as a >whole. Have you looked at Storm Mtn in Salt Lake? We enjoy rockcrawling mainly but also do scenic trips, snow runs, and sand dunes. Granted... fourwheeling is primarily a " guy sport" but we usually have familys show up at club runs. My boy goes whenever he can. You can check out a trip of ours this Summer at... http://www.4x4now.com/trcar.htm or .html I'm not quite sure. We are having our Xmas banquet shortly which is always a fun thing for the family... too late to RSVP this year though. I live up in Kamas and make it to most every metting ( I am the Treasurer & newsletter editor ). If you would be at all interested, mail me back. You can also reach Brett Davis (who is also a member of Storm Mtn), he is the President of the Utah Four Wheel Drive Assoc. He is also on the landuse list as are a couple other members. His address is: bdavis@burgoyne.com Take care. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* *^ Glenn Wakefield (Wakefield Custom Const.) *^ ^* 801-783-4355 ^* *^ gwbuild@allwest.net O *^ ^* o===== @|\__ ^* *^ {| [ ]\___ ~ _~~ || *^ ^* |/-\___/-\] [\_/\ /\ ^* *^ (_) (_) (_)* (_) <_ \_ *^ ^* All those who wander are not necessarily lost. ^* *^ ~~TREAD LIGHTLY~~ *^ ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/features/tonka.html ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Marsha Terry[SMTP:MTERRY@corel.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 1996 12:01 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introductions Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Marsha Terry and I live in Orem, Utah. I work for Corel Inc as the QA Lead for Macintosh WordPerfect. I've been married 23 years and have 4 boys, twins that are 22, 1 that is 18 and 1 that is 11. I also have a 1 year old granddaughter. I started 4 wheelin when I was about 10 in my dads old IH Scout. When I got married I convinced my husband that 4 wheelin was a fun way to spend time as a family. Our neighbors say we have gone crazy. We have a number of 4x4's in our family. Here is a list: '76 Chev shortbed truck '76 CJ5 (winch, 4.5 lift, 35x12.50" tires, I6, 18 year olds daily driver) '80 CJ5 (winch, 3" lift, 33x12.50" tires, I6, 22 year old daily driver) '87 Suzuki Samurai (winch, 4" lift, 31x10.50" tires, lockrite in rear, rock lobster transfer case reduction, husbands daily driver) '92 Wranger ( winch, 4" lift, 32x11.50" tires, limited slip in rear, my daily driver) '93 Wranger (2.5" lift, 32x11.50" tires, daughter-in-laws daily driver) I don't belong to any clubs or 4x4 organizations. This is a family preference since we have not found one that our family can enjoy as a whole. Marsha ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: D. Gray[SMTP:dgray@off-road.com] Sent: Saturday, December 14, 1996 3:50 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Introductions Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Well folks I am here - fresh meat for the legislative jaws and grease for the bureucratic gears - don't mind my occasional wrench tossed into the works. I am the Jeep Section editor at Off-Road.Com and am here to do what I can. I am basically a moderate realist on most things - including land use. I tend to reject many extreme positions and am in favor of protecting our wilder areas IN A RATIONAL MANNER. I want the ability to enjoy what is out there as well just like many tree huggers do, but where they and I depart is I do not want to seal anything off - I want to enjoy it and use it WISELY. Maybe I have a longer range point of view than many, but this planet has lived through ice ages, catastrophic meteor collisions and volcanic eruptions poisoning the atmosphere for millenia at a shot. I don't think that the earth is too upset at my "tread lightly" jeep habits. I do not confuse wise use with the eternal destruction of the universe the way environmental extremists seem to. Yet we all have a responsibility to keep things clean and not to ruin it all. We should no more pollute the wilds more than necessary than I should take a dump on your front lawn. We must help keep in check the unruly "redneck" or "yahoo" element in off-road recreation (you know them, their idea of "Tread Lightly" is what they do sneaking into the bedroom at 3am so they don't wake the wife), because just as the site of my taking a dump on your front lawn will cause you and your neighbors to have me banned from the neighborhood or arrested, so shall the unwise abuse of our natural resources cause our communities to ban together to close those areas to our use. And that's all I have to say about that - Where's my damn beer! -- David Gray ----------------------------------------------------- Jeep Section Editor - Off-Road.Com http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/jeep/jeep.html mailto:dgray@off-road.com 1990 YJ - San Jose, CA - VP Gettin' Off 4WDC, CA4WD ----------------------------------------------------- ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Brett Davis[SMTP:bdavis@burgoyne.com] Sent: Friday, December 13, 1996 11:14 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: introductions Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hello all! Way to go Del! and thanks as well to Dean and Co. My name is Brett Davis, I love four wheeling, especially rock crawling, and I just want to have a place to do this, as well as have access to public lands. My pet peeve is the whole road definition thing, especially to do with using RS2477. I am thrilled that we have a medium to communicate and become as organized (and hopefully as influencial) as the lock-em-up crew. I live in Utah where a bunch of this garbage goes on. While I am trying to cut back on my committments, I think this is one area I will stay involved (and hopefully more active) in. Thanks -- Brett Davis __________ Pres Utah 4x4 Association bdavis@burgoyne.com Jeepscrambl|\\ Storm Mountain 4x4 / |e| \\ Red Rock 4 Wheelers Assoc. ______________ / |r|__\\_______________ (Chevrolet 396 | / frame and body | """"""""""\ |_________/ /"""""""""\ | [ a m p \SM465trannyNP205case/ a m p \----] w e w e s dana44 r s 14bolt r b r b r o g g e o g g e ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Patrick J. Chicas[SMTP:pjc@off-road.com] Sent: Friday, December 20, 1996 2:28 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: Introductions, Jeff Deeney Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Don't be humble Jeff.. Tell them about your "Tales from the Trails" Stories and your expose of the SUWA on-line at "http://www.off-road.com/orctales.html". Cheers On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, Jeff Deeney wrote: > Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > > Del, thanks for setting up this list. I've tried something similar in > the past, but never had the time to generate the readership that we have > here. > > I have lived in Fort Collins, Colorado for 15 years. I'm a mechanical > engineer for Hewlett Packard, working on IC packaging and thermal > solutions. > > Let's see, about myself. I'm an avid motorcyclist and have been riding > dirt bikes since I was 10 (started in 1968, you can do the rest of the > math :-) I've been riding Honda XRs since they were introduced in 1979. > My current trail machine is a 1988 XR600 with CR front suspension. My > current "street" bike is a Yamaha XT600 that allows me to continue > riding through the winter. I've also done a little 4-wheeling, but just > sold my Ford Ranger 4x4. Over the years I had that little truck over > just about all of the high passes in Colorado, including the infamous > Black Bear. > > The OHV organizations I support include: > AMA (American Motorcyclist Association) > COHVCO (Coloraod Off-Highway Vehicle Coalition) > NCTR (Northern Colorado Trail Riders) > BRC (Blue Ribbon Coalition) > UTMA (Utah Trail Machines Association) > > I first became involved with landuse issues about 6 years ago when the > local USFS wanted to close all of the single track trails in the area to > motorized use. I hooked up with COHVCO and helped organize Northern > Colorado Trail Riders. I've had turns in serving 3/4 of the officer > positions in the club. Since the formation, NCTR has been effective in > at least 2 appeals of USFS decisions. Although the majority of the > club members are motorcyclists, the charter of NCTR is to represent 4x4, > ATVs, motorcycles, and snowmobiles. > > I have a special fondness for riding in Utah. Moab and the San Rafael > Swell are my favorite areas. Details of our Internet rides and > encounters with SUWA can be found on off-road.com tales from the trails. > We need to do everything that we can to prevent another fiasco like the > California Desert Lockout Act. Utah contains vast sections of > beautiful land that will be locked up forever if SUWA gets their way. > > -Jeffrey Deeney- DoD#0498 NCTR FOLMA#2 UTMA BRC > jld@fc.hp.com AMA#540813 COHVCO '85 XT600-Willy '88 XR600-Shamu > We don't stop riding because we get old, we get old because we stop riding. > > ===================================================== > Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com > Patrick J. Chicas Email: pjc@unix.off-road.com URL: http://www.Off-Road.com -------------------------------- The Off-Road Center of The 'Net! Subject: Re: Ken Barber Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com DEL wrote: > > .......oh, and by the way, you don't need to be an *ex* > environmentalist to play in our little network.....in fact, many of us > consider ourselves the *real* environmentalists!!!! We're the ones who Oops! Your point is well taken. What I should have said is, "I was once a part of the radical preservationist movement." You're right, WE are the TRUE "environmentalists." > believe in responsible multiple use of our resources and lands....while > setting aside those areas that are appropriate. So while I may love to > explore every back country road (and rock pile) I can drag my rig over, I > still like to see some undisturbed areas (where appropriate and > Well said. I myself am a wilderness aficionado -- I do lots o' backpacking as well as 4-wheeling -- and I feel the same way as you. I also feel that most, if not all, of the areas appropriate for wilderness are already so designated. What we have now are nuts that want to lock up EVERYTHING in sight, appropriate or not, just so they can shut down logging.... I forgot to mention my toy. It ain't much -- just an old beat-up '84 Bronco II that I don't have to worry about getting banged up when I'm romping around in the woods. It is in serious need of something more powerful than that pitiful 2.8 liter stock engine, and now that it's paid for (as of today!) a 289 or possibly 302 engine will be one of the first things in the works. Anyone out there with hints, tricks or gotchas on such a project, please write. Thanks. Ken kbarber@oregoncoast.com ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: Del Albright[SMTP:jeepndel@goldrush.com] Sent: Saturday, December 28, 1996 12:00 PM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Ken Barber Intro Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi Ken...and welcome to the List!!! We look forward to hearing from you with your varied background. Being both an ex-logger and an ex-environmentalist, you should have some great contributions to our efforts.......oh, and by the way, you don't need to be an *ex* environmentalist to play in our little network.....in fact, many of us consider ourselves the *real* environmentalists!!!! We're the ones who believe in responsible multiple use of our resources and lands....while setting aside those areas that are appropriate. So while I may love to explore every back country road (and rock pile) I can drag my rig over, I still like to see some undisturbed areas (where appropriate and reasonable).... anyway, it sounds like you be a great addition to the list. Again, thanks for joining us. DEL --------- > From: Ken Barber > To: landuse@off-road.com > Subject: Hello from new subscriber > Date: Saturday, December 28, 1996 12:39 AM > > > I am a former environmentalist. I know what these people want, and I > know what their real goals are. I know their movement from the inside. > > I am also a former logger. I've been on both sides of the issue, I've > watched & learned from both sides, and I have seen a lot. I know when > someone in this debate is telling the truth and when they are not. > > > > These people are not to be taken lightly. They are loaded for bear and > are winning. It is time that the public begin to be informed. The > enviros are successful precisely because the public, most of which now > dwells in cities, is woefully uninformed of the realities of nature and > the Great Outdoors.> > > > Ken Barber > Chairman, Tillamook County (Oregon) Republican Central Committee > > From: bdart@juno.com[SMTP:bdart@juno.com] Sent: Saturday, February 01, 1997 12:11 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Log On Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Hi all Just a brief note to introduce myself. My name is Bill Dart, I have been working for District 36 of the American Motorcyclist Association on off-road land use issues full-time for over eight years now in northern California and northern Nevada. I am not terribly fond of computers, so I am just now getting going on seriously using e-mail, and I haven't gotten onto the internet yet, but it is clear I must do so as soon as possible. I feel like I already have "information overload", but I just have to get more focused. Anyway, I have been riding off-road motorcycles and snowmobiles for over 30 years. I currently ride a Kawasaki KLX 300 motorcycle and a Yamaha 700 Mountain Max sled. I don't really consider myself a 4 wheeler, although, after 20 years of living in Tahoe without a 4-wheel drive, I finally broke down and bought a 4-wheel drive Chevy PU last year, which my wife occasionally lets me drive if I have a good excuse. I have found that long bed extended cabs are not the best for real off-roading, but I just want to haul my real off-road toys to the trailhead anyway. I guess I just have too much of a need for speed!. I grew up in a farming community in northeastern California, have relatives who are farmers, loggers, and construction workers. All of them have been hurt by the ESA, land use policies and regulations. I finally moved out of the Lake Tahoe basin after 20 years due to the rezoning of my property from high capability land to "stream environment zone" that precluded remodeling my house (unless I was willing to pay somewhere well over 5 figures in extortion for the right to add a second story on my existing "footprint". I live in Truckee, CA now, where, for the moment at least, you can still build houses and cut down a tree if you want to. As far organizations I belong to, I am a member of AMA (23 years), a life member of AMA District 36 and on the Board of Directors, a member of the Board of the Blue Ribbon Coalition, a member of the California/Nevada Snowmobile Association, a state representative for the National Off-Highway Vehicle Conservation Council, founder of the High Sierra Motorcycle Club, and co-founder of Western Snowmobile racing. I used to race enduros for many years , and was the District 36 Vet Class (over 30) champion in 85 and 86. I still ride as much as I can (not enough, but a couple of thousand miles per year on each) on my bike and snowmobile. I hunt and fish a little too. I look forward to interacting with everyone. Happy Trails Bill Dart From: Preston Stevens[SMTP:pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us] Sent: Monday, January 20, 1997 9:50 PM To: Landuse Subject: Re: Network Survey Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Del Albright wrote: > Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com > > > Subject: Network Survey > > > > thanks, DEL > > Screen Name: > Real Name: Preston K. Stevens > I reside in (town, state): Baltimore, Maryland > I drive: 1979 CJ7 AMC/Jeep > Rig Modifications;4.10 Gears, Replace Tre-Mac with a T18A, Lock Right in Rear, 33" Armstrong Norseman Traction Tires, receiver hitch, 120 amp Alternator, 1 1/2" body lift, new Qualtex seats, J.C. Whitney steel body, 220,000+ miles on the odometer, 1 1/2" body lift made from boat trailer rollers cut in half. OEM HD suspension. > My Favorite Trails are: Were closed! Other wise, there are too many to mention. I like them all. Maine was cool, Murphy, NC was great, GW is Fun, Western Maryland is victory and feels real good. > Years of Off Road Experience:25+ > Age (approximate if you want);40 > My Congressional Rep (supportive of us): Robert Ehrlich (R) > My Congressional Rep (non - supportive of us): Both of my Senators, Barbara Mikulski (D) and Paul Sarbanes(D) > Other Related Hobbies; Fishing, use to hunt, camping > My Pet Peeve (in your sport): People that bitch about closures, but will not lift a hand for the cause or say they do not make a difference or would be wasting their time. > Organizations I belong to include: United Four Wheel Drive Associations..............Director of Marketing Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Assocaition......Land Use/Conservation Director Baltimore 4 Wheelers, Inc.........................Land Use Director Virginia FOur Wheel Drive Association.............Member at Large NRA...............................................Life Member Zion United Church of Christ......................Decan Maryland Forests Association......................Member at Large MSPAN.............................................Member at large Blue Ribbon.......................................Member at large > > Other: Once was a member of the Isaac Walton League. I feel they have gotten off of track. They forgot their real purpose and have become a environmental only group. Chief Electrician at Bon Secours Hospital, Baltimore > Married 20 years, 3 daughters, 3, 8, and 13. > > > > ===================================================== > Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com > Preston Stevens pstevens@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us United FWDA Director of Marketing Middle Atlantic Four Wheel Drive Association Baltimore 4 Wheelers, Inc., Conservation/Land Use Director 1979 CJ7 Jeep ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: John Carr[SMTP:opranut@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 1997 1:22 AM To: landuse@off-road.com Subject: Re: Network Survey Public Land Use Issues: Brought to you by Off-Road.com Screen Name:opranut@ix.netcom.com Real Name:John W. Carr I reside in (town, state):Moraga, CA I drive:1983 Landcruiser Wagon (FJ60) Rig Modifications:Warn winch My Favorite Trails are:Canyonlands (Maze District), San Juan Mtns. (Colorado), Black Rock Range and High Rock Canyon (Nevada), Sawtooth NRA (Idaho), and LOTSA places I won't reveal in California and Oregon Years of Off Road Experience:14 Age (approximate if you want): 56 My Congressional Rep (supportive of us):Used to be Bill Baker, "one of us"; now some damned rich liberal democrat woman. My Congressional Rep (non - supportive of us):See above Other Related Hobbies:None My Pet Peeve (in your sport):Offroaders who are obsessed with modifications and macho offroad activities which do more than all the environmental lies to poison the public attitude towards offroading. Organizations I belong to include:None yet; not a joiner - but thinking about it. ===================================================== Courtesy of Off-Road.com: http://www.Off-Road.com ---------- From: David Borum[SMTP:N24Wheel@usit.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 1997 10:31 PM To: landuse@off-roa