Subject Body From: (Name) From: (Address) From: (Type) To: (Name) To: (Address) To: (Type) CC: (Name) CC: (Address) CC: (Type) BCC: (Name) BCC: (Address) BCC: (Type) Billing Information Categories Importance Mileage Sensitivity its me "Hi sweet, I came across an old email correspondence with you and realized how much I miss writing to you and having you write to me. I know some days you may be busy at work, but I think it would be nice to try to have some regular correspondence. It strikes me that I don't really know how you're doing, what you're feeling lately. I'd like to know. How are you feeling about you, me, us, work, vacations, staying at home, friends, family? I am not looking forward to Rich's visit as much as I should. Its hard to stay connected to people you don't see much. I am not really sure what to do while he's here, except take him to the City like he requested. That's one day down... 2 to go. I had a nice long talk with Mellie yesterday after I got back from the airport. I miss her so much. Yes, she can drive me crazy, in a way, but its just a strain to have to fit a lifetime of friendship into a few days or one week a year. I have noticed a bit of negativity on my part on certain things that just aren't important and I'm trying to keep myself from being petty. Its just not a big deal if she wants to be helpful, cheerful, or worried. She's just Mellie and those things make her perfectly her. I called Betsy at CSI today and she just may have good possibilities. I did really like all of them there. They miss you. I think I have decided I'm definitely not ready to pursue a permanent position. I can't really get excited about working- especially not the prospect of convincing someone that I want to work there forever/few years. I am open to contract to perm, but it at least gives me that confortable feeling that I could leave without guilt if I'm not happy. It must seem strange that contracting gives me a feeling of security, but what the heck. I have different needs than most people. I'm sure I will be happy working when I get a position- since I'll be meeting new people, and be busy again. I need some sort of kick start anyway- its like I've been moving in slow motion the last couple of weeks. I realize its noticable, so I apologize if this has bugged you at all. I know its just temporary because of transition. I've always hated the actual transitioning part. change is good, except when you're right in the middle of it. You know, it might seem like overkill, but there's a lot of things I'd like to apologize for- some aren't a big deal, but I just appreciate that you've put up with it and not made it a big deal either: Sorry the house hasn't been too clean and I haven't been cooking as much as I was when I first started my time off. Its really not my nature to be too domestic, but I know I can do better than this. Sorry I've been psycho, gung-ho about gardening. It keeps my mind occupied with things I feel I can control, unlike job-hunting, photography selling, social planning, etc. Sorry I haven't put much effort into the four-wheeling photography angle. I'm just feeling both overwhelmed and under optimistic. If nothing else, I really do want to get samples ready for Steve, Dan, and Wayne for this weekend. And I don't mean to put you in the middle for communications with people. Its just that working with George has been frustrating, and I don't know Steve at all. I'm not really sure what Steve is expecting, I may have misunderstood you when you first told me about pictures for Calmini. I'm not sure where to go from here. If you can, maybe we can talk about it, but you don't have to if you'd rather not. I am looking forward to our trip down south to hang with the guys. Are we camping? I'd like to camp more this summer if you're up to it. I miss hiking in the mountains with you and Goz. I love you, Randy, and I want to be even closer to you and hope you want to be closer to me. Write back soon, Kammy " kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX Normal Re: its me "> .realized how much I miss writing to you and having you write to me. Ditto, my love. > It strikes me that I don't really know how you're doing, > what you're feeling lately. Thanks for asking. I may not always feel like answering, I hope that's OK. > I'd like to know. How are you feeling about you, Fairly confident, feeling pretty well, actually. Wish I had more time, and more energy. > me, us I feel pretty good about you, and us. I think we're communicating pretty well, and I like that we're being demonstrative again after a dry spell. I do want to spend more time playing with you, though, more than just hanging out in the same house. > work, Work is good enough, but not inspiring. The Programmer's Reference Manual is a pretty crappy project, but it is very steady work. I wish I could be paid the same for exciting stuff. > vacations, I'd like to take more. I really loved our sabbatical, and I want to figure out how we can do another soon, maybe not a full two munths, but at least two weeks. > friends, Wish I had more of them, sorry that so many of them live so far away. Reina is a cool potential close-town friend, but that friendship is limited by Jill's tight control over her time. > family? Not much to say there. That relationship right now is as good as I want it to be, as close as I need it to be. That isn't very close to me, but that's completely OK. > Its hard to stay connected to people you don't see much. My bet is that when he gets in, you'll drop right into the old groove. That seems to be the nature of things with old close friends, no matter how differently people grow. > I had a nice long talk with Mellie yesterday Good. I miss her. > Yes, she can drive me crazy, in a way, but its just a strain > to have to fit a lifetime of friendship into a few days or one > week a year. I have noticed a bit of negativity on my part on > certain things that just aren't important and I'm trying to keep > myself from being petty. I know and understand. Its OK to vent to me, because I get frustrated about the same things... but I always remember what great people Paul and Mel are. > I called Betsy at CSI today and she just may have good > possibilities. I did really like all of them there. > They miss you. I liked them, and miss gently harassing them, too. Good folks. > I think I have decided I'm definitely not ready to pursue > a permanent position. Makes sense, and that's completely OK with me, as if you ndeeded my blessing. > I'm sure I will be happy working when I get a position- > since I'll be meeting new people, and be busy again. I hoep so. I can tell that you're kind of dirfting right now, and a little frustrated as a result of that. > I realize its noticable, so I apologize if this has > bugged you at all. It only bugs me when you complain about having too little time - I get so jealous of you that its hard to be reminded quite like that. > You know, it might seem like overkill, but there's a lot > of things I'd like to apologize for- some aren't a big deal, Thanks - it makes me feel good to know that you noticed them and my lack of reaction. Some of these things, frankly, are no big deal. Others are more of a cumulative annoyance. And the big ones? Well, I find a way to talk to you about them, and I promise I will continue to do that. > Sorry the house hasn't been too clean That's non-critical - and I can always get off my own duff and do some of that. > and I haven't been cooking as much Again, not a big deal, although we probably have been spending too much eating out. C'est la vie. > Sorry I've been psycho, gung-ho about gardening. That's OK - it is constructive and I know you needed something to be on top of, more than photography. > Sorry I haven't put much effort into the four-wheeling > photography angle. That's not a huge deal, I just wonder if that's indicative of a waning enthusiasm for the larger business of photography. I want to see you succeed in that business, if that's what you still want, but it is a competetive and frustratingly low-paying field, so I can understand your frustration. If you are sure that this is what you want, though, I want to leverage all my resources (including my hobby) to offer you the best oportunity to elicit success. No, I'll cop to wanting to be able to deduct my lifestyle, but we're a ways away from that, aren't we? > I really do want to get samples ready for Steve, Dan, and > Wayne for this weekend. I think we can almost go with the same slideshow we took to Portland, minus the George and Fed pics. Lets talk on this. > Its just that working with George has been frustrating, For me, too, its so hard keeping him on a business track. > I'm not really sure what Steve is expecting, Yeah, we should talk about it. I'm not sure what he's expecting either, I think we should just present the same slideshow as we'll do Saturday night in camp, and maybe just speed through, pausing a little longer at CALMINI-equipped rigs. > Are we camping? Yep - Saturday night. > I'd like to camp more this summer if you're up to it. > I miss hiking in the mountains with you and Goz. I'd like this, too. Maybe drive up and establish a base, then hike out and around with Goz, if the little wimp (though I do worry about his paws) can straggle behind is. > I love you, Randy, and I want to be even closer to you Ditto. I think these letters are an excellent idea to help us remember both of these things. Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Re: its me "Continued... > > It strikes me that I don't really know how you're doing, > > what you're feeling lately. > Thanks for asking. I may not always feel like answering, I hope that's > OK. Its okay sometimes, I just hadn't asked in a long time and you hadn't told. It had just been too long and I can only guess so much. Eventually I either have no clue or at least feel I should check on the accuracy of my guesses. > I feel pretty good about you, and us. I think we're communicating pretty > well, and I like that we're being demonstrative again after a dry spell. > I do want to spend more time playing with you, though, more than just > hanging out in the same house. I do like the direction we're going, but sometimes feel like there's a lot to work on. Just talking more is helping though. Playing more would be nice. maybe some mini-golf, or some movies, or would you be into a G&S production? Or maybe we can bike down by the river. Just some simple things occasionally (once a week?) would be nice to try. > > work, > Work is good enough, but not inspiring. The Programmer's Reference > Manual is a pretty crappy project, but it is very steady work. I wish I > could be paid the same for exciting stuff. sigh. me too. > > vacations, > I'd like to take more. I really loved our sabbatical, and I want to > figure out how we can do another soon, maybe not a full two munths, but > at least two weeks. what about weekend trips? we used to do that so much and now it seems we don't at all. I'm looking forward to this weekend for that reason, but it would be even nicer to go somewhere closer, yet still feel far away. Plus, take some 2-3 day weekends ith friends like Mark and Paul& Mel. Sabbaticals, of course, are nice too and in my mind, I'm hoping we can take a trip to Mexico (maybe drive baja) some time in the next year or two. > > friends, > Wish I had more of them, sorry that so many of them live so far away. > Reina is a cool potential close-town friend, but that friendship is > limited by Jill's tight control over her time. I know it can be frustrating to want more out of a friendship than the other person is able or willing to put in, so I hope you don't end up feeling (more) hurt over this. I have to say that it worries me when you don't socialize since I've always considered you a pretty social person, so I am glad that you are talking to more people like Dave Mills, Reina, and Doug. > > Its hard to stay connected to people you don't see much. > My bet is that when he gets in, you'll drop right into the old groove. > That seems to be the nature of things with old close friends, no matter > how differently people grow. usually, but not always, like with Steve. With Rich, it only worries me because our commonalities were always other friends and now neither of us really knows the other's friends. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it was always me and Rich- taking care of John, or me and Rich- worrying about Steve... Now me and Rich only have each other to worry about and its just not the same. > > I think I have decided I'm definitely not ready to pursue > > a permanent position. > Makes sense, and that's completely OK with me, as if you ndeeded my > blessing. well, I do, really because it all affects you. Like, I was considering some consulting jobs that required heavy travel. But I don't know how you'd feel. I know it would get old and seeing each other only on weekends would be kind of hard, but I have to admit that the consulting lifestyle somewhat appeals to me and so does the pay. I couldn't do it long, but maybe a year or so. > > I'm sure I will be happy working when I get a position- > > since I'll be meeting new people, and be busy again. > I hoep so. I can tell that you're kind of dirfting right now, and a > little frustrated as a result of that. changing focus sometimes causes me to lose focus. > > I realize its noticable, so I apologize if this has > > bugged you at all. > It only bugs me when you complain about having too little time - I get > so jealous of you that its hard to be reminded quite like that. I'm sorry, I will try not to take it for granted or say things that could be construed as complaining. I really am thankful that I've had this option and hopefully we can be in a situation where you can have the option sometime soon. > > and I haven't been cooking as much > Again, not a big deal, although we probably have been spending too much > eating out. C'est la vie. yes, I am trying to be sensitive about money, especially until I'm paid, but even after that. I'd like to try to be thrifty so we can reduce our credit card debt faster. After I know how much I'll be paid (and when), I'll give you an estimate on when I think this will happen. > > Sorry I've been psycho, gung-ho about gardening. > That's OK - it is constructive and I know you needed something to be on > top of, more than photography. thanks. there's even more to it, I can see lots of reasons why, but mostly it helps me feel productive. > > Sorry I haven't put much effort into the four-wheeling > > photography angle. > That's not a huge deal, I just wonder if that's indicative of a waning > enthusiasm for the larger business of photography. I want to see you > succeed in that business, if that's what you still want, but it is a > competetive and frustratingly low-paying field, so I can understand your Its definitely still what I want, it justs feels like I have to let it go to be 'computer super-human' again. And it does get frustrating when I have a hard time making progress, but I will ramp up again when I get through the current step of organizing and categorizing the darn photos. It has been such a huge step, and I am looking forward the steps getting smaller, like labeling, submitting one client at a time, categorizing only the shots I just took. I don't mind that its low-paying. My first goal is only to be able to right it off legitimately, then make more and more until I can finally feel like it could be my real job. I'm not expecting to make much ever. I hope that's okay. > frustration. If you are sure that this is what you want, though, I want > to leverage all my resources (including my hobby) to offer you the best > oportunity to elicit success. No, I'll cop to wanting to be able to > deduct my lifestyle, but we're a ways away from that, aren't we? yeah, I think its a long way off, especially since its still not what I want to focus on, just something I'm trying since I'm there anyway. I hope that's not a surprise to you. > > I really do want to get samples ready for Steve, Dan, and > > Wayne for this weekend. > I think we can almost go with the same slideshow we took to Portland, > minus the George and Fed pics. Lets talk on this. no, I want to take pictures of them specifically, in case they want prints. We can take the other ones too, though. > > I'm not really sure what Steve is expecting, > Yeah, we should talk about it. I'm not sure what he's expecting either, > I think we should just present the same slideshow as we'll do Saturday > night in camp, and maybe just speed through, pausing a little longer at > CALMINI-equipped rigs. okay, whenever you feel like talking is okay. > > I'd like to camp more this summer if you're up to it. > > I miss hiking in the mountains with you and Goz. > I'd like this, too. Maybe drive up and establish a base, then hike out > and around with Goz, if the little wimp (though I do worry about his > paws) can straggle behind is. yeah, I think we should do a thorough check or even take him in for a regular check up. He lost 15 lbs since Maui(he was 129 this morning), but he doesn't look any smaller to me. I still can't feel his ribs. I know its kind of hot, but he seems a lot more labored than I remember from last year, etc. Maybe I'm just paranoid, and maybe just taking him will reassure me that he can handle it. Love you... " kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX Normal Re: its me "> > Eventually I either have no clue or at least feel I should > > check on the accuracy of my guesses. > That's cool. Ask any time, I appreciate that you care. I always care. I want you to be happy. Plus, your moods and feelings are bound to affect me in some way, so it really matters. > > I do like the direction we're going, but sometimes feel like > > there's a lot to work on. > Yup, but remember that we have a lifetime in which to do the work. but it would be nicer to be able to reap the benefits of all the work for a lifetime, wouldn't it? > > Just some simple things occasionally (once a week?) would > > be nice to try. > I'm game. I like that we've been doing something big at least once a > weekend this summer. Do you want to add a commitment for one weeknight a > week> Mini golf would be fine, or just a trip to the driving range, as > would be movies, or G&S. I honestly like spending time with you, > remember? That would be cool- an evening out once a week or every other week if turns out to be too much. Pirates of Penzance is playing in Fair Oaks now, I've never seen it. Plus Music Circus' season has started. I like being mellow listening to music, even if its just at a cafe or something. All those things sound cool, so I will check options for next week sometime. > > what about weekend trips? we used to do that so much > Did we? Like to where? We've definitely been letting our WorldMark bonus > time go to waste. yeah, we did before our sabbatical- we used our bonus time in Tahoe and Yosemite, we went to Calistoga, we went camping up at Wright's Lake and 4th of July lake, we were crewing in the bay. Maybe a lot of it was because we had visitors, but a lot of it we did on our own. So I'd like to try to do that more. I know we can't every weekend (and I don't want to) since we not high on the hog right now, but I think at least once a month we can manage an entire weekend outing. Maybe Joy & Bart would like to go to Tahoe with us, or camping with Mike & Maribelle, or maybe a room and a show in Reno just by ourselves. > > Plus, take some 2-3 day weekends ith friends like Mark > > and Paul&Mel. > Let's start planning something with P&M for October. We were kind of already planning on Thanksgiving in November- is that okay? Then we all have extra time without taking off extra time. I know the airfare will be more, but consider it amortized over more days with them. > > I'm hoping we can take a trip to Mexico (maybe drive > > baja) some time in the next year or two. > I'd be totally into that. Lets aim for next year, but keep flexible and > see what contracting will bring each of us. That's fine- I always know the job and money situation can change, so I'd rather wait to plan anything. I want to avoid planning most things as far out as we did Hawaii. Big trips with Mel, Paul, Mark, and Michael can maybe be an exception sometimes. > > I have to say that it worries me when you don't socialize since > > I've always considered you a pretty social person, so I am glad > > that you are talking to more people like Dave Mills, Reina, and Doug. > I do enjoy being social, but it has to be on my own terms. Thus, its > tough to make time to go hang with Joy and Bart way up in Roseville on a > weeknight. They are willing to come down here, especially for dollar movies, if you ask. Its not the most convenient friendship, I know, but its the best one I have right now, so its worth it to me. I don't expect you to be ON socially just because I am. Whatever works for you. > > Like, I was considering some consulting jobs that required > > heavy travel. > I think I'd be OK with that for up to a year, as long as the end was > clearly in sight. I'd miss you, but that would certainly make for some > excellent weekends! And the dollars are definitely attractive. well, I'll look into a couple and see what kind of deals they have. I'd have to be able to see you almost every weekend, I think, and sometimes they don't like that. > > changing focus sometimes causes me to lose focus. > Well, if it makes you feel better, I haven't felt focused in years. > You're not alone. hmm, you have at least seemed pretty focused to me. More than when we met, at least. Being focused sometimes gets boring anyway. :-) > > hopefully we can be in a situation where you can have > > the option sometime soon. > You know what the rotten truth is? I wouldn't like myself much if I > wasn't working, or didn't have work scheduled in a certain amount of > time. I love the time freedom, but I hate being unemployed. yeah- you and Paul. Sorry to say that it doesn't make sense to me, but I understand where the feeling comes from. Just promise me that if we win the lottery that you will take *some* time off to play with me. > > After I know how much I'll be paid (and when), I'll give > > you an estimate on when I think this will happen. > Sounds good. We'll re-evaluate plans and dollars when that happens, I'd > like to be involved. that would be good. I'll try to include you especially when we change plans. > > Its definitely still what I want, it justs feels like I > > have to let it go to be 'computer super-human' again. > I really think an hour a night weeknights can maintain the business, > with weekend photo shoots. Priorities and time management will make this > trick. well, probably more like one or two nights a week. I have a hard time doing anything for just an hour. After I get a job and get comfortable, I will be able to maintain a regular schedule. I am confident I will be able to keep the ball rolling, even if its rolling slowly sometimes. > > I'm not expecting to make much ever. I hope > > that's okay. > Hopefully that pertains mostly to photography. I think we need to make > some good money now and salt it aways for the future. yes, I just meant in photography, but I still hope that someday that's all I have to do and I can give up this double life. I know it will be a long time off though and hope I can make big bucks being technical for now. > > yeah, I think we should do a thorough check or even take > > him in for a regular check up. > Lets definitely take him in for a checkup - that weight loss almost > worries me. He has been getting more exercise - he sure got a lot at > `camp' but that's a lot of weight to lose. Yep, it worried me too. Plus I just can't see a difference. I even went to another scale (first used the one at the vet's, then went to Petsmart) for a second weighing. I made an appointment with Dr. Denny tomorrow. I will ask him how much he thinks he should weight, see if we should get a thyroid check, and ask him about his activity issues. I'm going to attempt to cut his nails again, since I think they are still way too long and think maybe that might be contributing to his activity problem if its uncomfortable. anything else you want asked or checked? I went to Joy's for lunch today. I definitely like hanging out with her. She offered me two pieces of art (both female nudes), but I didn't really like the style. It was actually computer generated or some kind of computer-manipulated photo printed. Not really what I was expecting, but it was cool of her to offer. Bart goes to OK in a couple of weeks, so I will have to remember she might be looking for company then. Maybe I can do a girl's night out with her if you're busy. Love you, Kammy " kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX Normal Re: its me "< in the next few days, you should go to Vic's Nasty Secret and buy > something fun, new, and sexy, as well as any underthings you need. One > can never have too much lingerie with which to seduce one's husband. thanks, I could use some new stuff, though I'm not sure I will have a chance this week... > Of course, you'd also look pretty good just naked, smeared in chocolate > sauce. note to self... buy chocolate sauce... > > Pirates of Penzance is playing in Fair Oaks now, I've never > > seen it. > Cool. I'd love to go see it. I will check the schedule and see if we can get tickets. > > Plus Music Circus' season has started. > What's Music Circus? Music Circus is a season of different musicals(changing weekly) that they perform in the summer in a tent theater somewhere downtown. This summer they are playing The Pajama Game, Cabaret, Joseph & the amazing technicolor dreamcoat, Brigadoon, and South Pacific. Actually, I looked it up and the season doesn't start for a couple of weeks still. I guess its very popular and I love musicals. > > I like being mellow listening to music, even if its just at > > a cafe or something. > That would be cool, like at a coffee house? yeah- I'm sure we can find somewhere pretty close even, if we check into it. they might even be doing something like this in Fair Oaks village. > I'm game to get back into weekend tripping. Wanna make a brainstorm list > over dinner some night soon? that sounds like fun. we can do it tonight, or wait until after this weekend. > > We were kind of already planning on Thanksgiving in November- > > is that okay? > I was thinking about going `wheeling that weekend. I'd much rather don > P&M another weekend, but I guess I can be flexible on that, since I'm > not going back to MI this Xmas and won't see them then. Perhaps I can > `wheel downstate over Xmas. Remind me to ask Steve Gardiner what he's > doing then. hm.. really? Did you have something specific in mind, or it just sounds like fun? We should check Mel & Pauls schedule, but I really would like to spend more than a regular weekend with them since I doubt I'll get to see them at Xmas either. I guess check your options and see what the possibilities are. > Speaking of cheap, we need to get reservations for our Seattle trip. doh! we forgot to call Mark last night. If I remember, I'll email him AND we should try again tonight. > > They are willing to come down here, especially for dollar > > movies, if you ask. > That would be cool - dinner at our place and then a cheap flick. yep, there's a couple I'd see too- I think the Big Hit looks good for a dollar flick. > > Its not the most convenient friendship, I know, but its > > the best one I have right now, so its worth it to me. > Me too, but I'm not likely to want to go up there on a weeknight all > night soon. ok, no problem, for a while at least. We really should think about having a barbeque one weekend soon, though. > > hmm, you have at least seemed pretty focused to me. > Appearances can be deceiving. I'm happier now than I was when we met, > much thanks to you, but I feel the same lack of direction. I'm also > being paid much better despite my lack of direction, and that helps ease > the discomfort of a job I don't particularly dig. Being paid well sometimes makes it harder to consider other options though. If you aren't enjoying it as much as you think you should, it would be good to start playing around with different ideas on what might make you happier. I know its definitely hard... no rush though- its another one of those things where you have a whole lifetime to figure it out. > > I made an appointment with Dr. Denny tomorrow. > Ask also about his pads, which are kinda rough and might be paining him. I asked, he didn't seem to find anything unusual (one foxtail), so just thinks we should try to keep them cleaner (its amazing how often I find burrs on him). He thinks his weight, fur thickness, and color are contributing to him seeming a little less enthusiastic about exercising. He suggested hosing him down maybe. We did get a thyroid check and Denny thinks 15 more pounds would be good. I will talk to you more about the diet, etc. in person... too much for here. > > I went to Joy's for lunch today. I definitely like hanging > > out with her. > I like her, too. Dunno how pregnancy will affect that. don't know, just trying to enjoy it while I can. > I really like that you guys are friends - it is good to have multiple > support systems, for both of you. yeah, it would be nice if I thought it would last through child rearing, but that's okay- maybe I can expect only so many Mel's in my life. " kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX Normal Re[2]: its me "I'm quite sure I responded to this, but since I can't find any outgoing mail to prove it, here's another response... > > in the next few days, you should go to Vic's Secret > thanks, I could use some new stuff, though I'm not sure I > will have a chance this week... You should make time for this, my love. > note to self... buy chocolate sauce... Add whipped cream to that list, too. ;P > I will check the schedule and see if we can get tickets. Any more info on Pirates? > I guess its very popular and I love musicals. I could go for that, but it would have to be late evening. I hate having to rosh out for something as soon as I get home. Bart leaves for Oklahoma this weekend, so we should try to synch up with B&J for a cheap flick for Wednesday or Thursday night. We still need to brainstorm our planned weekend trips - lets take some paper with us next time we go to a restaurant and work on that. I like thinking of cool places to go with you. > We should check Mel & Pauls schedule, Yeah, let's for sure schedule them for Thanksgiving, and maybe even call soon to verify that (and remind Mellie about Hawaii pictures) Did you have a chance to check reservations for Seattle yet? I'm looking forward to visiting Seattle and seeing Mark. I've never been to Seattle before -- should be quite cool. > We really should think about having a barbeque one > weekend soon, though. Cool with me, but not the weekend of the 26th. Maybe we should just plan for early August? Love you, (but its CRAZY here!) Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Re: its me "-----Original Message----- From: Burleson, RandyX D To: ""Kammy Burleson"" Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 3:13 PM Subject: RE: its me >> I will check the schedule and see if we can get tickets. >Any more info on Pirates? its every Friday, Sat, and Sunday at 8:30 p.m. for the next 4 weekends. I called, but they don't have ticket info- just where to get them (box office opens at 7:30 the night of the show). Maybe we can just try to go this Friday and get tickets last minute. There's probably seats. >> I guess its very popular and I love musicals. >I could go for that, but it would have to be late evening. I hate having to >rush out for something as soon as I get home. I thought the point was to go out on a weeknight, but if you want to do this on a weekend we'll have to get tickets early. I'm sure weekend tickets are harder to get. The shows are at 8pm on weeknights, so I'm not sure if that's considered rushing. Let me know, I can go with other people if you'd prefer. >Bart leaves for Oklahoma this weekend, so we should try to synch up with B&J >for a cheap flick for Wednesday or Thursday night. Thanks for hanging out at the lake. I like doing things with our dog and doing things with Joy & Bart. I'm sorry you were tired, but I really hope you don't actually think that when I asked if you were going to sleep on the rock, and not be social, that I don't think you *deserve* to rest. I never know how to respond when you say things like that. You deserve to be able to do whatever you want after work, I just had thought you had chose to be social. >We still need to brainstorm our planned weekend trips - lets take some paper >with us next time we go to a restaurant and work on that. I like thinking of >cool places to go with you. ok, next time we are both in good moods and not too tired. I will try to remember to put paper in the car. >> We should check Mel & Pauls schedule, >Yeah, let's for sure schedule them for Thanksgiving, and maybe even call >soon to verify that (and remind Mellie about Hawaii pictures) so, you want to wait on airfare, though, right? we can call Mellie sometime when you're here too, since you haven't talked to her in a while. I am also planning on sending her some things next week. >Did you have a chance to check reservations for Seattle yet? I'm looking >forward to visiting Seattle and seeing Mark. I've never been to Seattle before -- >should be quite cool. yep, definitely. there's just too many cool things to do, though. You will have to help me and Mark plan what you might like to do or see. >> We really should think about having a barbeque one >> weekend soon, though. >Cool with me, but not the weekend of the 26th. Maybe we should just plan for >early August? it'll happen when it happens. probably not until August. I want the yard to look at little nicer, though I'm not sure that's going to happen since our grass is actually weeds and everything else seems to be turning brown. Thanks for taking time again to write me. I missed you. I talked to Craig today. He needed tech support. He asked to have you call him sometime, he might come bum garage time and advice from you one of these weekends soon. It sounds like he's working too hard. Well... I've hit that 3pm loss of energy lull... I need to get off the computer to get out of it. Talk more later. Love you, Kam " kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX Normal 7/9/98 "> Maybe we can just try to go this Friday and get tickets > last minute. There's probably seats. Sounds good to me. > I thought the point was to go out on a weeknight, I'm fine with that, I just don't want to have to be anywhere much earlier than 7:00. > The shows are at 8pm on weeknights, so I'm not sure if > that's considered rushing. Nah. I just hate having to rush after work, rush to get home, rush to get somewhere... one night a week should be fine, if not much earlier than 7:00. > Thanks for hanging out at the lake. I had a good time, but I was plumb exhausted. Hope you didn't get too pissed at me catching some ZZ's. It wasn't intentional, I was just relaxing, but you know me - anywhere close to horizontal for too long... > I like doing things with our dog Ditto. He enjoyed it and I'd like to take him canoeing some time soon. > I really hope you don't actually think that when > I asked if you were going to sleep on the rock, and > not be social, that I don't think you *deserve* to rest. No, I didn't think that, but there was a bit too much edge on that statement and I was tired, so I wasn't going to respond very well, especially when confronted in public. I know that's not something you appreciate, and its probably not fair, but any time I'm challenged in public, I'm likely not to be cooperative. If you can, maybe try coming over to me and talking to me quietly? I think I'll respond better to that. > so, you want to wait on airfare, though, right? Yes. > we can call Mellie sometime when you're here too, > since you haven't talked to her in a while. Sounds good. I'm game to do that tonight or whenever. > Thanks for taking time again to write me. I missed you. Ditto. Don't be afraid to make a preemptive letter writing strike to me if you want to. Love you, and we gotta pick up another newfie tonight. Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Re: Thanks for the Coolness "> I hope work is going okay today. HA! No, in a big way! Don't ask... > Did you get to hook up with George? I did -- talked for about a half hour. Quite nice. > You know, I don't think I've thanked you enough > about being persistent on deciding to get A/C. Thanks you for going out of your way to thanks me. Hundred degree days are definitely reminding me it was a good choice, but thank you for also telling me. It was a lot of work and it is a nice payoff to hear that you enjoyed it. > I am so looking forward to my trip back home > because I know it will help me clear my head > and renew my focus. Good. I know home is important to you, and sometimes you may need to remind me that you need a trip home every now and then for sanity's sake -- because it doesn't work that way for me. I'm happy that you are excited, and hope that it is all that you expect it to be. > Don't be surprised if I come back with a new & > improved plan of action and shorter hair. The first sounds good, but we're just talking a few inches of the latter, right? (He says, knowing full well that its her choice) > Would you like to do something tonight? Maybe > a dollar movie or something. I could go for that, I think. Find out what's on and when I need to be home, then call me. I'd also be game to do.... YOU. Can I request that shorta sorta orangish/peach-print dress that you look so delectable in? Or maybe a trial wearing of the orange sarong, a white shorty top, and a certain shortage of underwear? Or something that makes you feel sexy and hot, that you can go out to a movie in, then remove parts of on the way home in the car? > I love you Randy.... Ah, but I love you more. And I also think lustily of you -- which definitely isn't helping me productive today at work! Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Thanks for the Coolness "Hi hon, I hope work is going okay today. Did you get to hook up with George? You know, I don't think I've thanked you enough about being persistent on deciding to get A/C. Thanks so much. I don't know how Gozar & I would have made it through the summer without it. I had intended on writing a much longer letter with some musings & contemplations, but I find it hard to put my thoughts together coherently right now. I am so looking forward to my trip back home because I know it will help me clear my head and renew my focus. Don't be surprised if I come back with a new & improved plan of action and shorter hair. Would you like to do something tonight? Maybe a dollar movie or something. Give me a call if you do. I love you Randy.... " kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX Normal Re: Thanks for the Coolness "> I hope work is going okay today. HA! No, in a big way! Don't ask... > Did you get to hook up with George? I did -- talked for about a half hour. Quite nice. > You know, I don't think I've thanked you enough > about being persistent on deciding to get A/C. Thanks you for going out of your way to thanks me. Hundred degree days are definitely reminding me it was a good choice, but thank you for also telling me. It was a lot of work and it is a nice payoff to hear that you enjoyed it. > I am so looking forward to my trip back home > because I know it will help me clear my head > and renew my focus. Good. I know home is important to you, and sometimes you may need to remind me that you need a trip home every now and then for sanity's sake -- because it doesn't work that way for me. I'm happy that you are excited, and hope that it is all that you expect it to be. > Don't be surprised if I come back with a new & > improved plan of action and shorter hair. The first sounds good, but we're just talking a few inches of the latter, right? (He says, knowing full well that its her choice) > Would you like to do something tonight? Maybe > a dollar movie or something. I could go for that, I think. Find out what's on and when I need to be home, then call me. I'd also be game to do.... YOU. Can I request that shorta sorta orangish/peach-print dress that you look so delectable in? Or maybe a trial wearing of the orange sarong, a white shorty top, and a certain shortage of underwear? Or something that makes you feel sexy and hot, that you can go out to a movie in, then remove parts of on the way home in the car? > I love you Randy.... Ah, but I love you more. And I also think lustily of you -- which definitely isn't helping me productive today at work! Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX kammy@jps.net kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal talking "I was chatting with Reina this afternoon, letting her know that I was available for her if she needed to talk about important stuff, and I typed this thought: ""Sigh. I'd make room for my wife to talk to me, too, but she doesn't -- not about important things in her life. Its all about the little finite things, and all too little about what she really cares about. Perhaps these counseling sessions will offer an opportunity to draw that out."" I thought that would be a valuable thing for you to know. I know that you have important things going on in your life, but right now I really couldn't tell you what they are. I know all about the little details of yoru garden, your job, etc. but I don't know much about what I think is important to you. I'd like to know more about those things, if you'd care to share them with me, Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX 'kammy@jps.net' kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Normal Re: talking "Hmmm.. I find this curious because I'd say you do not seem to share those important things with me. Also, it would be nice to know what you consider important because what I consider important might not be the same. You said, ""but I don't know much about what *I* think is important to you."" Maybe an example of what is important to you would help me either open up to you regarding something equally important to me OR help me explain to you why something I talk about already is just as important to me as your example might be to you. Does that make sense? I really would like an example. I have to admit that I think the later might be the case and that in the past I have felt that you expressed disinterest in listening to me talk about things that were important to me. I know that I have consciously censored myself before from discussing certain topics with you because of this. I would really like to feel connected to you again. Maybe I need to feel like here's room for me to talk in general *before* I feel comfortable enough to talk about more important things. kam Burleson, RandyX D wrote: > I was chatting with Reina this afternoon, letting her know that I > was available for her if she needed to talk about important stuff, and I > typed this thought: > > ""Sigh. I'd make room for my wife to talk to me, too, but she doesn't > -- not about important things in her life. Its all about the little finite > things, and all too little about what she really cares about. Perhaps these > counseling sessions will offer an opportunity to draw that out."" > > I thought that would be a valuable thing for you to know. I know > that you have important things going on in your life, but right now I really > couldn't tell you what they are. I know all about the little details of yoru > garden, your job, etc. but I don't know much about what I think is important > to you. > > I'd like to know more about those things, if you'd care to share > them with me, > > Randii > > > > " Kammy Burleson kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" randyx.d.burleson@intel.com SMTP Normal Normal RE: talking "I find this curious because I'd say you do not seem to share those important things with me. [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, that's peachy. Not. If that's the truth, then we definitely need to talk more about stuff. The thing is that right now I don't have any important 'purpose' or much that's driving me forward in life. I have a whole bunch of responsibilities that stress me and not much that makes me feel free. I don't want to talk about the stressors except to vent. My relationship with you is important to me but if I try to address it, I feel like we just end up fighting, and I wonder whether not talking is better than talking and fighting. I don't have that much important right now to share with you, I'm just sorta drifting. That's OK, I guess -- I don't feel like I need to have a huge happiness or purpose, though it would certainly be nice. That does, however, leave me devoid of really important stuff to talk to you about. I'm looking forward to my Christmas vacation, but I don't feel like I can talk about that. So I don't have anything that 'drives' me right now, a passion.... so I try to tal;k about the things that excite me, and I get shut down. You have no interest in hearing about four-wheeling, for instance. Also, it would be nice to know what you consider important because what I consider important might not be the same. You said, ""but I don't know much about what *I* think is important to you."" Maybe an example of what is important to you would help me either open up to you regarding something equally important to me OR help me explain to you why something I talk about already is just as important to me as your example might be to you. Does that make sense? I really would like an example. [Burleson, RandyX D] Nope it doesn't make sense. All we talk about lately is gardening and your job. I vent about my job, too, but I've been trying to minimize that. The job just is not that important to me, except for me clinging to a stable income. That's not a dig at you, the whole stable income thing -- I just really think as a grown up person I need to provide for *myself*. I will admit to feeling pressured about the job thing, though, because I haven't felt secure in being able to quit my job for the last few years. At HP, you might have quit any day, the way you talked, and this job sounds might similar. I can't help but wonder whether it will always be this way.... and right now, with my stresses at work, I could really USE the confidence of being able to think to myself, ""Hey, if it gets too bad, I can just quit."" Regardless of what you say right now, based on what you've told me of your current job, I don't believe it would be a good idea for me to quit my job. Not being able to even think that makes this stress that much harder to bear. I have to admit that I think the later might be the case and that in the past I have felt that you expressed disinterest in listening to me talk about things that were important to me. I know that I have consciously censored myself before from discussing certain topics with you because of this. [Burleson, RandyX D] Well work and gardening aren't 'the important things' that I'm talking about. I sincerely hope there's more to you than that -- the person I fell in love with talked about traveling, and love, and her dreams. I'd like to talk about those things with you. I would really like to feel connected to you again. Maybe I need to feel like here's room for me to talk in general *before* I feel comfortable enough to talk about more important things. [Burleson, RandyX D] I would like to feel connected that way, too. But that may be a problem, because the minutiae of your day serves only to space me away right now. I think I see that in you, when I vent to you about my job, too. The trivial shit is supposed to be filler for the important stuff, and it seems like all we have is filler lately. Randii" "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX 'kammy@jps.net' kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Normal Re: talking " -----Original Message----- From: Burleson, RandyX D To: kammy@jps.net Date: Monday, October 26, 1998 3:57 PM Subject: RE: talking >> I find this curious because I'd say you do not seem to share those >> important >> things with me. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, that's peachy. Not. > If that's the truth, then we definitely need to talk more about >stuff. The thing is that right now I don't have any important 'purpose' or >much that's driving me forward in life. I have a whole bunch of >responsibilities that stress me and not much that makes me feel free. I If it makes you feel any better, I feel exactly the same way. I don't even have short term goals or plans. I don't know what I'm doing or what I WANT to do past December. I don't know how I want to make a living, or where or how I want to spend my free time, or what I'm going to try to do to stimulate my mind. Its rather scary since I've almost always had some sort of image of the coming year with some sort of stabilizing situation (school, work, hobby). The only time I had no clue like this was when John & I broke up and I moved to Arizona. >don't want to talk about the stressors except to vent. understandable, but not necessarily healthy. at least not for me. > My relationship with you is important to me but if I try to address >it, I feel like we just end up fighting, and I wonder whether not talking is >better than talking and fighting. I also understand this feeling. I've been putting off many discussions for months because I know we will fight about them. I don't think that its better to not talk, but sometimes I feel like its better to talk at a more stable time. I've been waiting for a more stable time - but a stable time for some issues is unstable for others, so waiting doesn't appear to be helping. > I don't have that much important right now to share with you, I'm >just sorta drifting. That's OK, I guess -- I don't feel like I need to have >a huge happiness or purpose, though it would certainly be nice. That does, >however, leave me devoid of really important stuff to talk to you about. I'm I'm wondering if its OK with you to be drifting and devoid of important stuff to talk about, why its not apparently OK for me. I'm just feeling a little defensive that you discuss my lack of talking about 'important stuff' with Reina in a judgmental way but you only admit to me that you have a lack of discussing important stuff yourself. It hurts to be deemed the non-communicative one when it takes two to communicate. I'm not meaning this is a slam, I just hope you see that its not fair to blame me alone. >looking forward to my Christmas vacation, but I don't feel like I can talk >about that. So I don't have anything that 'drives' me right now, a Why can't you talk about it? I don't even know who you're planning on seeing for sure (Steve & Wayne, and some other off-road.com contacts), for how long you're planning on taking off, etc. I'd like to know. Any discomfort you sensed from me from previous discussions was in reaction to the way in which you presented it- generally in a 'I'm going to Mexico, nya nya' slant. I want you to have fun whatever you do. I also want you to want to have fun with me sometime. I don't want to feel like this is the beginning of a long line of seperate vacations. >passion.... so I try to tal;k about the things that excite me, and I get >shut down. You have no interest in hearing about four-wheeling, for >instance. you have no interest in hearing about photography, gardening, or dieting, for instance. I am sorry you feel shut down. I try very hard to express interest in your hobbies and pursuits. I thought I was doing okay, even though I know I have off-days. Some days its just too much at once. I hope I can do better because I know if feels horrible to feel shut down. >> something >> equally important to me OR help me explain to you why something I talk >> about >> already is just as important to me as your example might be to you. Does >> that >> make sense? I really would like an example. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Nope it doesn't make sense. All we talk about >lately is gardening and your job. I vent about my job, too, but I've been >trying to minimize that. The job just is not that important to me, except >for me clinging to a stable income. That's not a dig at you, the whole >stable income thing -- I just really think as a grown up person I need to >provide for *myself*. gardening is important to me. its a time to myself, time away from the real world. And by gardening, I don't mean mowing, laying sod, or trimming trees. Trust me that these are Chores. Just because you like fixing up your truck, doesn't mean you like changing my oil or tuning my metro, right? I never mind when you talk about your job. I like knowing a little about what you do. A couple of years ago you said so little about it, I had no clue what you were doing. > I will admit to feeling pressured about the job thing, though, >because I haven't felt secure in being able to quit my job for the last few >years. At HP, you might have quit any day, the way you talked, and this job >sounds might similar. I can't help but wonder whether it will always be this >way.... and right now, with my stresses at work, I could really USE the >confidence of being able to think to myself, ""Hey, if it gets too bad, I can >just quit."" Regardless of what you say right now, based on what you've told >me of your current job, I don't believe it would be a good idea for me to >quit my job. Not being able to even think that makes this stress that much >harder to bear. I don't need you to take care of me, Randy. I do what I need to do. I only expect you to do what you need to do as well. We *can* live on one income, with choices, so please don't make it my fault that you feel like you can't quit. You should be able to feel that if it gets to bad, you can quit. I've been wanting to talk about the possibility of splitting expenses & incomes again(remember I asked you to think about it) and if you feel in any way that *I* am holding you back some how, then I think we better consider it seriously. Think about it for a few days- we do not have to resolve all our issues at once. >> I have to admit that I think the later might be the case and that in the >> past I >> have felt that you expressed disinterest in listening to me talk about >> things >> that were important to me. I know that I have consciously censored myself >> before from discussing certain topics with you because of this. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Well work and gardening aren't 'the important >things' that I'm talking about. I sincerely hope there's more to you than >that -- the person I fell in love with talked about traveling, and love, and >her dreams. I'd like to talk about those things with you. so talk! again- I love talking about these things, but without feeling like I have a responsive and interested partner, how am I supposed to just bring these subjects up? Sometimes just getting you to talk at all feels impossible. and why is it my responsibility to start these types of discussions? okay, I see that you're trying to start a discussion now, I do. how about in person? >> I would really like to feel connected to you again. Maybe I need to feel >> like >> here's room for me to talk in general *before* I feel comfortable enough >> to talk >> about more important things. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I would like to feel connected that way, too. >But that may be a problem, because the minutiae of your day serves only to >space me away right now. I think I see that in you, when I vent to you about >my job, too. The trivial shit is supposed to be filler for the important >stuff, and it seems like all we have is filler lately. I think we are both having difficulties getting past the filler because we don't feel the other is responsive to us about the unimportant stuff- so why should we risk more important stuff? I have felt very far away from you for a long time. I'm not sure we have things in common anymore- its hard to feel close without commonalities. Its hard to talk, its hard to be friends, its hard to be intimate. I want all these things. I don't know how to get there any more. I hope someone can help us and I hope we can help each other. I love you Randy. " kammy kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" randyx.d.burleson@intel.com SMTP Normal Normal RE: talking "If it makes you feel any better, I feel exactly the same way. [Burleson, RandyX D] Better, no. Less alon, maybe. I don't even have short term goals or plans. I don't know what I'm doing or what I WANT to do past December. I don't know how I want to make a living, or where or how I want to spend my free time, or what I'm going to try to do to stimulate my mind. Its rather scary since I've almost always had some sort of image of the coming year with some sort of stabilizing situation (school, work, hobby). The only time I had no clue like this was when John & I broke up and I moved to Arizona. [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, I'm sorta used to it -- its my M.O. - which doesn't make it any better, just a bit less unusual. I'm truly jealous of the people that know what they want to do with their life. >don't want to talk about the stressors except to vent. understandable, but not necessarily healthy. at least not for me. [Burleson, RandyX D] How so? I'd rather not wear you out on this stuff -- and I can tell that you do get worn out of listening to it. I know I did when you talked always of HP happenings. > My relationship with you is important to me but if I try to address >it, I feel like we just end up fighting, and I wonder whether not talking > is better than talking and fighting. I also understand this feeling. I've been putting off many discussions for months because I know we will fight about them. I don't think that its better to not talk, but sometimes I feel like its better to talk at a more stable time. I've been waiting for a more stable time - but a stable time for some issues is unstable for others, so waiting doesn't appear to be helping. [Burleson, RandyX D] I'm thinking that we can draw some of these issues out in front of the counselor, which will perhaps be a safer environment. I'm wondering if its OK with you to be drifting and devoid of important stuff to talk about, why its not apparently OK for me. I'm just feeling a little defensive that you discuss my lack of talking about 'important stuff' with Reina in a judgmental way but you only admit to me that you have a lack of discussing important stuff yourself. It hurts to be deemed the non-communicative one when it takes two to communicate. I'm not meaning this is a slam, I just hope you see that its not fair to blame me alone. [Burleson, RandyX D] I get that, but feel like I make more of an effort. Dunno if that's fair, but that's what I feel. >looking forward to my Christmas vacation, but I don't feel like I can talk >about that. So I don't have anything that 'drives' me right now, a Why can't you talk about it? I don't even know who you're planning on seeing for sure (Steve & Wayne, and some other off-road.com contacts), for how long you're planning on taking off, etc. I'd like to know. Any discomfort you sensed from me from previous discussions was in reaction to the way in which you presented it- generally in a 'I'm going to Mexico, nya nya' slant. I want you to have fun whatever you do. I also want you to want to have fun with me sometime. I don't want to feel like this is the beginning of a long line of seperate vacations. [Burleson, RandyX D] This isn'nt necessarily the first of a long line of separate vacations, but you've gotta see that going to Michigan every year IS going to happen for you, but that I don't want to do it. I feel like I'm being pretty accomodating just agreeing to go back every other year. I'm not trying to present things 'nyah, nyah' although it certainly seems obvious to me which is better. I've tried to make light of that in the past by joking about 'nyah, nyah' but apparently that misfired. I don't feel like you want to know about what I'm doing with my break -- and I'm pretty sure I've picked up some big vibes from you to that effect. Do you resent me for going somewhere cool without you? Honestly, think about it. you have no interest in hearing about photography, gardening, or dieting, for instance. [Burleson, RandyX D] Photography, because I get so frustrated at the half-completed state of it, the articles never pursued (not just Moab). You re genuinely good at it, Kamm, and it is hard not to be frustrated that you just dropped it. I don't think it was reasonable to pursue it as your only income, but with your talent and love for it, I don't think it is reasonable to just drop it, either. Gardening -- I'm happy that you enjoy it, but it just isn't something I get into.... I want low effort pretty things, and it bugs me to look at the effort involved and think ahead to the maintenance that this will require. I'll be more supportive if you prove that you will maintain these massive expanses of garden, but I really expect them to be a passing thing. I do try to discuss these things with you, especially WRT the general landscaping, and not just flowerbeds. The lawn, on the other hand, will endure, I think, and I am willing to expend my effort to help make that work. I was bummed that you weren't very appreciative of my efforts for the whole rototilling endeavor. I would have much rather been doing something fun, or something less emotionally charged, but I got the rototiller because *you wanted it.* As mentioned earlier on, I would have much rather just paid someone to do the tilling and leveling. Part of this is that I have so totally BTDT before. I've moved dirt, rototilled, and been forced to garden on a grand scale, both for pay and for my parents. The former wasn't that bad -- they were shit jobs, but I got paid. The latter sticks with me -- I hated helping my parents on their garden, and it definitely still sticks. That's not meant to be a cop out, but that definietly is wrapped up in the resntment I feel for having to help you. Dieting, nope, no interest, That's personal. You look good now, and I respect your resolve at dieting -- that's something, there. Do you get that -- I RESPECT YOU. Now do you get that I need to do it myself and don't prioritize it, thus don't respect myself? Are you starting to get why I don't want to talk about dieting? Its a constant reminder that I'm failing myself, I am sorry you feel shut down. I try very hard to express interest in your hobbies and pursuits. I thought I was doing okay, even though I know I have off-days. Some days its just too much at once. I hope I can do better because I know if feels horrible to feel shut down. [Burleson, RandyX D] I'll try to do better, too. Maybe you could give me a short list of things that you want or need me to be interested in? [Burleson, RandyX D] I might not even know... gardening is important to me. its a time to myself, time away from the real world. And by gardening, I don't mean mowing, laying sod, or trimming trees. Trust me that these are Chores. Just because you like fixing up your truck, doesn't mean you like changing my oil or tuning my metro, right? I never mind when you talk about your job. I like knowing a little about what you do. A couple of years ago you said so little about it, I had no clue what you were doing. [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. That makes sense, both hearing about my job and differentiating between chores and gardening. I like that you have gardening to do for yourself, as your own Zen, much like I have the truck. I just don't want to HAVE to help -- and part of that is not even you -- I've done much of the labor before, so I know better ways to do it. And as you well know, its hard for me not to share them. I don't need you to take care of me, Randy. I do what I need to do. I only expect you to do what you need to do as well. We *can* live on one income, with choices, so please don't make it my fault that you feel like you can't quit. You should be able to feel that if it gets to bad, you can quit. [Burleson, RandyX D] I don't. And no matter what you say, Kamm, its ingrained in me to provide, so I'm going to feel responsible regardless of what you do or say. I can't help it, I'm just wired that way. I've been wanting to talk about the possibility of splitting expenses & incomes again(remember I asked you to think about it) and if you feel in any way that *I* am holding you back some how, then I think we better consider it seriously. Think about it for a few days- we do not have to resolve all our issues at once. [Burleson, RandyX D] I have thought about it, but I didn't feel secure enough about us to broach that conversation to you. That would require a whole restructuring of finances, and I would like to do it sometime, but I'd like to feel more comfortable about us before wading into that. so talk! again- I love talking about these things, but without feeling like I have a responsive and interested partner, how am I supposed to just bring these subjects up? Sometimes just getting you to talk at all feels impossible. and why is it my responsibility to start these types of discussions? okay, I see that you're trying to start a discussion now, I do. how about in person? [Burleson, RandyX D] We need to. I just don't know how to start that ball rolling, and as we both said earlier, it is harder right now since we're both kinda drifting in neutral. I'm hoping that th counselor can bring that out, and get us back in 'Drive.' I think we are both having difficulties getting past the filler because we don't feel the other is responsive to us about the unimportant stuff- so why should we risk more important stuff? [Burleson, RandyX D] Great insight. That's exactly what I feel! I have felt very far away from you for a long time. I'm not sure we have things in common anymore- its hard to feel close without commonalities. Its hard to talk, its hard to be friends, its hard to be intimate. I want all these things. I don't know how to get there any more. I hope someone can help us and I hope we can help each other. I love you Randy. [Burleson, RandyX D] And I love you. Thanks for working with me on us -- I think we're worth it. Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX 'kammy' kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Normal Re: talking "Burleson, RandyX D wrote: > > I don't even > > have short term goals or plans. I don't know what I'm doing or what I > > WANT > > to do past December. I don't know how I want to make a living, or where > > or > > how I want to spend my free time, or what I'm going to try to do to > > stimulate my mind. Its rather scary since I've almost always had some > > sort > > of image of the coming year with some sort of stabilizing situation > > (school, > > work, hobby). The only time I had no clue like this was when John & I > > broke > > up and I moved to Arizona. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, I'm sorta used to it -- its my M.O. - > which doesn't make it any better, just a bit less unusual. I'm truly jealous > of the people that know what they want to do with their life. Hey, I've never known that- but having some sort of short- or medium-term plan would be nice. > > >don't want to talk about the stressors except to vent. > > understandable, but not necessarily healthy. at least not for me. > [Burleson, RandyX D] How so? I'd rather not wear you out on this > stuff -- and I can tell that you do get worn out of listening to it. I know > I did when you talked always of HP happenings. I need to talk out and think about my stressors other than just venting to really consider their impact on my life and what I can do about them. When I vent, I am not expecting to solve it- just vent. But when I can think about it rationally, then I might be able to solve the tough points. Yes, I get worn out listening, but I don't want you to stop talking. And I don't want to feel like I have to stop talking either. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I'm thinking that we can draw some of these > issues out in front of the counselor, which will perhaps be a safer > environment. I hope so. > > It hurts to be deemed the non-communicative one when it takes two to > > communicate. I'm not meaning this is a slam, I just hope you see that its > > not fair to blame me alone. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I get that, but feel like I make more of an > effort. Dunno if that's fair, but that's what I feel. And I feel that I make more of the effort. Of course, its not fair. > > nya' slant. I want you to have fun whatever you do. I also want you to > > want to have fun with me sometime. I don't want to feel like this is the > > beginning of a long line of seperate vacations. > [Burleson, RandyX D] This isn'nt necessarily the first of a long > line of separate vacations, but you've gotta see that going to Michigan > every year IS going to happen for you, but that I don't want to do it. I > feel like I'm being pretty accomodating just agreeing to go back every other > year. I know- you don't have to sell me. You don't have to go back to Michigan ever, if you get no enjoyment out of it. > I'm not trying to present things 'nyah, nyah' although it certainly > seems obvious to me which is better. I've tried to make light of that in the > past by joking about 'nyah, nyah' but apparently that misfired. I don't feel > like you want to know about what I'm doing with my break -- and I'm pretty > sure I've picked up some big vibes from you to that effect. Do you resent me > for going somewhere cool without you? Honestly, think about it. again, I wasn't interested in hearing it with the 'nya nya' slant- NOT that I wasn't interested in hearing about it. so can I officially ask you to share your vacation plans with me? And yes, it bugs me that you are going somewhere that I'd like to go with you, been planning on going with you, without me. I don't mind your ski trips because you haven't yet gone somewhere that I really wanted to go myself. When you end up going to Whistler, I'll be a little jealous that you'll be seeing it and I won't. > > you have no interest in hearing about photography, gardening, or dieting, > > for instance. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Photography, because I get so frustrated at > the half-completed state of it, the articles never pursued (not just Moab). > You re genuinely good at it, Kamm, and it is hard not to be frustrated that > you just dropped it. I don't think it was reasonable to pursue it as your > only income, but with your talent and love for it, I don't think it is > reasonable to just drop it, either. The half-completed state has nothing to do with what I enjoy about Photography. I like the creative feeling of TAKING PICTURES and then ENJOYING the results. Business is business, which is just work. I do not ENJOY the business aspect - just like I do not enjoy the chores part of gardening, so do not equate me putting aside the business for the time being for my ""just dropping"" my interests. I cannot put a large amount of effort into a SECOND business. While I have a day-job, I plan of putting occasional effort into the business and a reasonable amount of effort into developing my skills. I do have other things going and as I have tried and tried and tried to explain- I want to finish this landscaping project before I think about any other projects. After a brief rest, I'm hoping to start scanning and creating my web portfolio in November. I'm sorry if it seems like slow-motion, but I really don't want to constantly work two jobs. > Gardening -- I'm happy that you enjoy it, but it just isn't > . > . > Dieting, nope, no interest, That's personal. You look good now, and I didn't expect or want a point by point explanation of why you aren't interested in the things that I am interested in. You already know I don't share your interest in trucks, and I doubt you need an explanation why. So neither do I. > The lawn, on the other hand, will endure, I think, and I am willing > to expend my effort to help make that work. I was bummed that you weren't > very appreciative of my efforts for the whole rototilling endeavor. I would All I wanted was you to pick up the rototiller so it would be there when we returned. I would have taken your truck & picked it up myself had I known I had extra time. > have much rather been doing something fun, or something less emotionally > charged, but I got the rototiller because *you wanted it.* As mentioned > earlier on, I would have much rather just paid someone to do the tilling and I would have rather paid someone as well. I looked. It wasn't working out, I ( & mother nature) had a schedule, so I went to plan B. I'm sorry it wasn't what you wanted but I'm glad now that we're doing it ourself and saving at least $250. > got paid. The latter sticks with me -- I hated helping my parents on their > garden, and it definitely still sticks. That's not meant to be a cop out, > but that definietly is wrapped up in the resntment I feel for having to help > you. You're a home owner now. You're not just helping me- you're helping retain the value of your house. Chores need to be done and the yard will just continue to degrade if we do not put some effort into it. I will try to do as much of it on my own, but again- these things are chores for me too- not just fun little projects. > > I am sorry you feel shut down. I try very hard to express interest in > > your > > hobbies and pursuits. I thought I was doing okay, even though I know I > > have > > off-days. Some days its just too much at once. I hope I can do better > > because I know if feels horrible to feel shut down. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I'll try to do better, too. Maybe you could > give me a short list of things that you want or need me to be interested in? > I might not even know... If I'm discussing something, of course I want you to be interested in it. I don't need you to be interested in it and I don't expect you to be as interested in it as I am, but I'd like you to appreciate my interest in something. I think I really do try to do at least that for you, even though I might have off days, or even if I can't sustain it over long discussions. > [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. That makes sense, both hearing about my > job and differentiating between chores and gardening. I like that you have > gardening to do for yourself, as your own Zen, much like I have the truck. I > just don't want to HAVE to help -- and part of that is not even you -- I've > done much of the labor before, so I know better ways to do it. And as you > well know, its hard for me not to share them. I don't mind you sharing tips on how I might want to do something, but realize that what works for you might not work as well for me due to our physical differences. I do consider your suggestions. I may try them and find they do not seem to work for me, or I might think them through and have a reason you don't know about for choosing to do it differently. If you don't understand why I choose to do something differently than the way you've suggested, then ask instead of assuming that I'm just being stubborn. A nice way of asking might be like ""Did you decide that doing it such and such wouldn't work for you?"" > > I don't need you to take care of me, Randy. I do what I need to do. I > > only > > expect you to do what you need to do as well. We *can* live on one income, > > with choices, so please don't make it my fault that you feel like you > > can't > > quit. You should be able to feel that if it gets to bad, you can quit. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I don't. And no matter what you say, Kamm, its > ingrained in me to provide, so I'm going to feel responsible regardless of > what you do or say. I can't help it, I'm just wired that way. okay, but don't make me feel like I have to live my life according to your wiring. do you understand? again, don't make it my fault that you feel this way. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I have thought about it, but I didn't feel > secure enough about us to broach that conversation to you. That would > require a whole restructuring of finances, and I would like to do it > sometime, but I'd like to feel more comfortable about us before wading into > that. that's fine, I would like us both to feel less in debt when we do it anyway. Maybe next tax year, if we're ready. > > discussions? okay, I see that you're trying to start a discussion now, I > > do. how about in person? > [Burleson, RandyX D] We need to. I just don't know how to start > that ball rolling, and as we both said earlier, it is harder right now since > we're both kinda drifting in neutral. I'm hoping that th counselor can bring > that out, and get us back in 'Drive.' I think writing back and forth is helping as well. I tried it before, but you stopped responding when things got a little hectic a work back in June. Let's just keep trying.Thanks for giving the ball a push this time. Kammy " Kammy Burleson kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" randyx.d.burleson@intel.com SMTP Normal Normal RE: talking "> [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, I'm sorta used to it -- its my M.O. - > which doesn't make it any better, just a bit less unusual. I'm truly jealous > of the people that know what they want to do with their life. Hey, I've never known that- but having some sort of short- or medium-term plan would be nice. [Burleson, RandyX D] What, not known that I sorta drift without a purpose through life? I thought it was obvious! We should talk about short or medium term plans, then. What are you looking for? I'm hoping to start saving for retirement soon, and play more. I need to talk out and think about my stressors other than just venting to really consider their impact on my life and what I can do about them. When I vent, I am not expecting to solve it- just vent. But when I can think about it rationally, then I might be able to solve the tough points. Yes, I get worn out listening, but I don't want you to stop talking. And I don't want to feel like I have to stop talking either. [Burleson, RandyX D] Yeah, I need to as well. But the HP thing really wore me down. You talking about your current job isn't bad at all - but the HP job was different, somehow. Please don't stop talking -- and I promise to let you know if I do want you to stop talking, OK? I imagine that sometimes I'll need that just situationally, when I won't be able to really listen to you for some reason or other - dunno, mebbe situational stressrs in my life. > [Burleson, RandyX D] This isn'nt necessarily the first of a long > line of separate vacations, but you've gotta see that going to Michigan > every year IS going to happen for you, but that I don't want to do it. I > feel like I'm being pretty accomodating just agreeing to go back every other > year. I know- you don't have to sell me. You don't have to go back to Michigan ever, if you get no enjoyment out of it. [Burleson, RandyX D] I do get some enjoyment out of it - seeing my friends, our families... but I think I get more enjoyment out of going someplace warm and exotic. again, I wasn't interested in hearing it with the 'nya nya' slant- NOT that I wasn't interested in hearing about it. so can I officially ask you to share your vacation plans with me? And yes, it bugs me that you are going somewhere that I'd like to go with you, been planning on going with you, without me. I don't mind your ski trips because you haven't yet gone somewhere that I really wanted to go myself. When you end up going to Whistler, I'll be a little jealous that you'll be seeing it and I won't. [Burleson, RandyX D] Sure! Will share more -- because I *am* excited about it, and I'd love to use your knowledge of the areas for stuff to visit. You've spent a whole lot more time on So Cal than I. The half-completed state has nothing to do with what I enjoy about Photography. I like the creative feeling of TAKING PICTURES and then ENJOYING the results. Business is business, which is just work. I do not ENJOY the business aspect - just like I do not enjoy the chores part of gardening, so do not equate me putting aside the business for the time being for my ""just dropping"" my interests. [Burleson, RandyX D] I get it. I hadn't looked at it that way. I didn't expect or want a point by point explanation of why you aren't interested in the things that I am interested in. You already know I don't share your interest in trucks, and I doubt you need an explanation why. So neither do I. [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. Point taken. All I wanted was you to pick up the rototiller so it would be there when we returned. I would have taken your truck & picked it up myself had I known I had extra time. [Burleson, RandyX D] That may have been all you wanted, but it wasn't all you ended up needing, or using. I just didn't feel like my efforts were appreciated. You did thank me for picking up the oller last night, and I appreciated that. I would have rather paid someone as well. I looked. It wasn't working out, I ( & mother nature) had a schedule, so I went to plan B. I'm sorry it wasn't what you wanted but I'm glad now that we're doing it ourself and saving at least $250. [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, Saving is good, but as overcommitted as I am right now, I'm not sure if I wouldn't have rather just paid to get it done. You're a home owner now. You're not just helping me- you're helping retain the value of your house. Chores need to be done and the yard will just continue to degrade if we do not put some effort into it. I will try to do as much of it on my own, but again- these things are chores for me too- not just fun little projects. [Burleson, RandyX D] Lecture mode. Yeah, I get the whople homeowner maintenance thing, and I'll admit that sometimes I wonder if we should have bought a condo. Timetables are more what I hate than the actual chores. I would have liked to put this off further. And you have to admit that a big chunk of the sideyard project has been flowerbed, which was optional - whereas the yard was not. If I'm discussing something, of course I want you to be interested in it. I don't need you to be interested in it and I don't expect you to be as interested in it as I am, but I'd like you to appreciate my interest in something. I think I really do try to do at least that for you, even though I might have off days, or even if I can't sustain it over long discussions. [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. I'll try harder. Please keep trying for me. I don't mind you sharing tips on how I might want to do something, but realize that what works for you might not work as well for me due to our physical differences. [Burleson, RandyX D] I get that. Really, I do. I do consider your suggestions. I may try them and find they do not seem to work for me, or I might think them through and have a reason you don't know about for choosing to do it differently. If you don't understand why I choose to do something differently than the way you've suggested, then ask instead of assuming that I'm just being stubborn. A nice way of asking might be like ""Did you decide that doing it such and such wouldn't work for you?"" [Burleson, RandyX D] I will do that. Thank you for this specific suggestion -- I can act more easily on this kind of specifics, so I think this should really help. okay, but don't make me feel like I have to live my life according to your wiring. do you understand? again, don't make it my fault that you feel this way. [Burleson, RandyX D] Yeah, I get this, but there's another obvious extreme -- you can't make me live according to YOUR hardwiring either. We gotta compomise, somehow. that's fine, I would like us both to feel less in debt when we do it anyway. Maybe next tax year, if we're ready. [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. I do want to talk about overtime, though. It is really demotivating for me to see my OT just meld into the rest of our money -- I can't see a good result for it, and it is even harder to stay and do a good job. Can we set it up so that if either of us makes overtime, that person gets to spend at least a portion of it? I would find that very motivating. I know you aren't in a position to make OT now, so if you want, we can backtrack and count your HP OT, maybe, or I'm open to looking at other suggestions... it just really frustrates me to pull in an extra $500 in a week and then have to ask about spending $20 on something the next week. I think writing back and forth is helping as well. I tried it before, but you stopped responding when things got a little hectic a work back in June. Let's just keep trying.Thanks for giving the ball a push this time. [Burleson, RandyX D] Thanks you for appreciating. Keep writing, Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX 'kammy@jps.net' kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Normal Re: talking "Burleson, RandyX D wrote: > > jealous > > > of the people that know what they want to do with their life. > > Hey, I've never known that- but having some sort of short- or medium-term > > plan > > would be nice. > [Burleson, RandyX D] What, not known that I sorta drift without a > purpose through life? I thought it was obvious! No, not that you drift- I meant ""I've never known"" what I wanted to do with my life, specifically. Generally, yes- specifically, no. > We should talk about short or medium term plans, then. What are you > looking for? I'm hoping to start saving for retirement soon, and play more. I think I need to get this job thing straightened away, then I can plan on retirement saving and playing and travelling. > Please don't stop talking -- and I promise to let you know if I do > want you to stop talking, OK? I imagine that sometimes I'll need that just > situationally, when I won't be able to really listen to you for some reason > or other - dunno, mebbe situational stressrs in my life. Ok, but being asked to stop talking about something I obviously need to talk about is difficult on my psyche. I don't mean being asked to talk about it later because you're not in the mood- I mean being asked not to talk about it anymore. That kind of total shut down is impossible for me to deal with. > > I know- you don't have to sell me. You don't have to go back to Michigan > > ever, > > if you get no enjoyment out of it. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I do get some enjoyment out of it - seeing my > friends, our families... but I think I get more enjoyment out of going > someplace warm and exotic. I'd like to do both. > > just like I do not enjoy the chores part of gardening, so do not equate me > > putting aside the business for the time being for my ""just dropping"" my > > interests. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I get it. I hadn't looked at it that way. Thank you. That means a lot. > [Burleson, RandyX D] That may have been all you wanted, but it > wasn't all you ended up needing, or using. I just didn't feel like my > efforts were appreciated. You did thank me for picking up the oller last > night, and I appreciated that. I will try harder to show my appreciation for the things you do. > > I would have rather paid someone as well. I looked. It wasn't working > > out, I ( > > & mother nature) had a schedule, so I went to plan B. I'm sorry it wasn't > > what > > you wanted but I'm glad now that we're doing it ourself and saving at > > least > > $250. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, Saving is good, but as overcommitted as > I am right now, I'm not sure if I wouldn't have rather just paid to get it > done. I understand that. I just wasn't having luck making that happen. I'm sorry. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Lecture mode. Yeah, I get the whople homeowner > maintenance thing, and I'll admit that sometimes I wonder if we should have > bought a condo. Timetables are more what I hate than the actual chores. I > would have liked to put this off further. And you have to admit that a big > chunk of the sideyard project has been flowerbed, which was optional - > whereas the yard was not. Okay, but I think planning the tilling, grading, leveling, rolling, sodding has taken more energy than hauling dirt to my flowerbed. It doesn't matter. I'm sorry you were pressured into helping, especially when you had other things on your plate. > > in it as I am, but I'd like you to appreciate my interest in something. > > I > > think I really do try to do at least that for you, even though I might > > have off > > days, or even if I can't sustain it over long discussions. > [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. I'll try harder. Please keep trying for > me. of course, I will. > > instead of assuming that I'm just being stubborn. A nice way of asking > > might be > > like ""Did you decide that doing it such and such wouldn't work for you?"" > [Burleson, RandyX D] I will do that. Thank you for this specific > suggestion -- I can act more easily on this kind of specifics, so I think > this should really help. I will try to be more specific in the future. > > okay, but don't make me feel like I have to live my life according to your > > wiring. do you understand? again, don't make it my fault that you feel > > this > > way. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Yeah, I get this, but there's another obvious > extreme -- you can't make me live according to YOUR hardwiring either. We > gotta compomise, somehow. I don't expect you to live any particular way, except being responsible for your own well-being and being there for me as a friend & lover. Maybe thats over-simplifying it, but sometimes I think about why I married you and its mostly because I like being around you. I'd like to focus on having it fun to be with each other again. > > that's fine, I would like us both to feel less in debt when we do it > > anyway. > > Maybe next tax year, if we're ready. > [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. I do want to talk about overtime, though. > It is really demotivating for me to see my OT just meld into the rest of our > money -- I can't see a good result for it, and it is even harder to stay and > do a good job. Can we set it up so that if either of us makes overtime, that > person gets to spend at least a portion of it? I would find that very > motivating. I know you aren't in a position to make OT now, so if you want, > we can backtrack and count your HP OT, maybe, or I'm open to looking at > other suggestions... it just really frustrates me to pull in an extra $500 > in a week and then have to ask about spending $20 on something the next > week. well, if we split our earnings completely, you wouldn't have to worry about that. You wouldn't have to worry that if you make three times what I do some day, that it would feel unfair for me to spend as much as you. I'm trying not to be too frustrated about this, but how can you draw a line there? What if one of us is working fewer hours consistently? Should the other be compensated for working more? And honestly, we can't afford to reimburse me for three years of HP OT.I guess keep thinking about what you want and what you think is fair. Remember, I am not the one asking or expecting you to work OT. I'd prefer if you did not. The point of discussing what we spend OUR money on is to feel like we have EQUAL say in what we spend OUR money on. If we don't discuss purchases which will use OUR money, then there is not equal say. Just the more daring person gets to buy more. I'm sorry you feel I am being some sort of heavy on this, but I don't feel like I get a say on how a lot of our money is spent. I know I'm not always perfect in notifying you before purchases every single time, but I'm sure I do tell you as soon as I can if I can't afford it with my allowance. I'm often surprised by your purchases at the end of the month when I get the credit card bill. Maybe its hard to see when you're removed from the finances and I generally don't want to rock the boat because we tend to get in fights when we talk about finances. I know this will be a difficult issue for us to work through. I want to do it carefully and think things through thoroughly. I will think about different ways of handling this and hope you have some ideas too. I wanted to talk to you about possibly trying another counselor especially before we commit to Andrea. The office I was trying to contact has free 20 minute interviews to help you determine if you want to continue into an entire hour session. We could get in as early as tomorrow at 7:30, if you want to try. We don't have to rush into anything else, but I felt enough skepticism that the weekend thing would be right for us, that I wanted to follow-through on at least one other option. Call or page me if you're not going to be able to be home early today to check out Kristy's work on the yard so we can talk about it more. I am also still planning on having a long discussion regarding yesterday's session like we planned. Love you, Kammy " Kammy Burleson kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" randyx.d.burleson@intel.com SMTP Normal Normal RE: talking "No, not that you drift- I meant ""I've never known"" what I wanted to do with my life, specifically. Generally, yes- specifically, no. [Burleson, RandyX D] Really? What's the 'general' plan? Play and be happy? Love me? I think I need to get this job thing straightened away, then I can plan on retirement saving and playing and travelling. [Burleson, RandyX D] OK. I just wanted to have started saving when I turned 30. I'm trying hard to look at the house as enforced saving. Ok, but being asked to stop talking about something I obviously need to talk about is difficult on my psyche. I don't mean being asked to talk about it later because you're not in the mood- I mean being asked not to talk about it anymore. That kind of total shut down is impossible for me to deal with. [Burleson, RandyX D] I know that was hard for you not to talk about HP. I think that's the most recent instance, right? The thing was, that it was also really hard one me (my psyche, I guess) to have to hear what was a very similar issue set again and again, and discuss ways to change it, but never see them implemented. I can listen to venting I think pretty well, but somewhere around a year I can't keep my distance. I know I'm not supposed to FIX things for you, but that one, with its recurrence, just drove me nuts, too. I promise to try harder, and to remember to never ask you to stop talking about an issue unless I just can't take anymore... and then I'll try to remember to note that it is just that one issue which we can't go into, and just for a while, at that. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I do get some enjoyment out of it - seeing my > friends, our families... but I think I get more enjoyment out of going > someplace warm and exotic. I'd like to do both. [Burleson, RandyX D] I get that, really, I do, but considering the costs of returning to Michigan, in addition to the opportunity cost of missing work, I'm unable to justify two weeks off for Christmas every year in Michigan. I will stick to my commitment and visit every other year, though. I will try harder to show my appreciation for the things you do. [Burleson, RandyX D] Thanks. I really do try hard to please you. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, Saving is good, but as overcommitted as > I am right now, I'm not sure if I wouldn't have rather just paid to get it > done. I understand that. I just wasn't having luck making that happen. I'm sorry. [Burleson, RandyX D] And I'm pleased with the results, with the exception fo the brick trim, which I'll get over. The sideyard looks really great, and I appreciate all the work you have put into it. We should talk about when and what we're gonna do to the back yard, as well. When can we let Goz on the new grass? Besides time availability for us, that's the dependency I see for the backyard. And I guess with teh big pile of dirt over by the psa, I'm leaning toward doing something sooner rather than later with the backyard, as well. We should talk about this, and also talk about what still needs doing up front. Let's see -- we need to put the fence back up, consider clearing out some trees next to the driveway, consider clearing out some trees over on the opposite side of the yard from the driveway, etc. Doing the backyard would include demolishing that crappy little outbuilding, putting in a stretch of drainage across the back by the walk, possibly digging a hole for the spa, and tilling the yard. Whew. That sounds liek a big set of commitments, and I don't think we have time to do them, but I really dislike the big pile of drit in the yard. Anyway, we need to sit down (I like doing this stuff over dinner, I wish I would more frequently remember a notepad and a pen) and brainstorm what needs to be done, the prioritize. The more i think of it, the backyard isn't going to get done (by us) this year, but it might help me feel better about the big ass pile of dirt if I knew at least when I expected it to be gone. sorry you were pressured into helping, especially when you had other things on your plate. [Burleson, RandyX D] Wanted to help some, but the biggest problem was that you said, ""Hey, I can do it on my own."" It may be childish, but when I hear that, it is liek I hear a challenge, and I want to see you do it on your own. I'm not sure how to avoid this trap. I like it that you need my help with things -- it is good to be needed. I know you can do just about anything yourself, if you set your mind to it, but there are some things that I think I know how to do better. I dunno. If you'd just tell me in advance how much you'd appreciate it if I helped, I think I might be more willing. I know I'm expected to pitch in maintaining the property, but the whole 'expected' thing is a real downer, and I just don't do well with it. Can't really explain why, but there it is. I don't expect you to live any particular way, except being responsible for your own well-being and being there for me as a friend & lover. Maybe thats over-simplifying it, but sometimes I think about why I married you and its mostly because I like being around you. I'd like to focus on having it fun to be with each other again [Burleson, RandyX D] Sounds good to me. I have been having more fun with you of late, dunno if you noticed. Maybe just starting counseling was enough to make me feel better about us, but I definitely feel like we are picking up momentum and having more fun. Kissing you up against the wall in the hall the other night was playful and fun that I haven't felt in a while... you laughing at a joke which I didn't expect made me smile so much it hurt, and I wouldd come and hugged the hll out of you if Kristy hadn't been in the room. Lotsa little stuff lately is feeling really good with you. well, if we split our earnings completely, you wouldn't have to worry about that. You wouldn't have to worry that if you make three times what I do some day, that it would feel unfair for me to spend as much as you. [Burleson, RandyX D] That's never felt like that big of a deal, the whole different earning thing, as long as we both are working. If we both are putting in roughly equivalent time, I'm cool with sharing everything. Taking time off obviously messes that up, but I'm even OK with taking a few months off without changing the system. Sigh. Dunno. I don't want equality of $$ to be a big deal, and you'll have to trust me that I don't think it really is when we both work. OT is the issue I'm talking about now, and I've always thought that OT is extra work, and extra hard, so it would be cool to make sure it is somehow extra rewarding. I'd even be amenable to saying, whatever OT is made, we s[plit between each other, with the stipulation that it is mad money -- to buy whatever we want. Carparts for me, cameras for you. to be too frustrated about this, but how can you draw a line there? What if one of us is working fewer hours consistently? Should the other be compensated for working more? And honestly, we can't afford to reimburse me for three years of HP OT.I guess keep thinking about what you want and what you think is fair. [Burleson, RandyX D] I will. You too. All those above situations seem incidental to me. I won't hold it against you that you might not ake 40 hours a week at the county. We're close, I think, in terms of what we contribute, when we both work. I do think that work breaks where one is working but the other not, if lasting more than a certain amount of time, can strain this system, so we will need to address those separately, but I'm pretty comfortable with the greater scope of how we split money. I'm not saying pay out three years of HP -- I'm saying, hey, let's pick a date to account to, and figure out who's worked more OT. That's one way of doing it. Another would be to pick a future date and say that forward of this date, OT is play money -- and determine the split of who gets to play with what. Mad money can be awful fun when both people hav it, and potentially divisive if not. Obviously I'm ineterested in seeing the last two month's 65 hours worth of OT counted into the system from Intel, but we'll figure that out, it may not be feasible. Remember, I am not the one asking or expecting you to work OT. I'd prefer if you did not. [Burleson, RandyX D] I know that. I'd rather work 35 hours a week, myself. But OT is likely to be a part of at least the next 2 months as I flex to accomodate the ludicrous schedules here at Intel. I'm working hard to eliminate OT by booking up this new guy's time and turning away work. Trust me, I am. The point of discussing what we spend OUR money on is to feel like we have EQUAL say in what we spend OUR money on. If we don't discuss purchases which will use OUR money, then there is not equal say. Just the more daring person gets to buy more. [Burleson, RandyX D] I'm not sure I get this -- who's more daring? I'm sorry you feel I am being some sort of heavy on this, but I don't feel like I get a say on how a lot of our money is spent. [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, not a heavy, per se. I'm OK with discussing expenses, but I want to hear 'yes' more frequently. That's human, right? As I'm sure do you. Perhaps I need to see again where our money goes to understand why I ever need to hear 'no.' I know I'm not always perfect in notifying you before purchases every single time, but I'm sure I do tell you as soon as I can if I can't afford it with my allowance. I'm often surprised by your purchases at the end of the month when I get the credit card bill. Maybe its hard to see when you're removed from the finances and I generally don't want to rock the boat because we tend to get in fights when we talk about finances. I know this will be a difficult issue for us to work through. I want to do it carefully and think things through thoroughly. I will think about different ways of handling this and hope you have some ideas too. [Burleson, RandyX D] Agreed. I don't see the credit card statement so it is hard to say. There have been a few items where I have clearly fallen down on the talk-first agreement, but I think most had mitigating factors. I'm pretty sure there have been some the other way, though I'd guess that my slips have probably been bigger. This may indeed be uncomfortable to talk about, but I still think we need to do it. A little drearyness now can avoid some big arguments later. Love you much, Kamm. Randii " "Burleson, RandyX D" "/o=Intel/ou=Americas01/cn=Workers/cn=Burleson, RandyX D" EX 'kammy@jps.net' kammy@jps.net SMTP Normal Normal Re: talking "I gotta say- you made my day when I received this mail. Thanks :-) Burleson, RandyX D wrote: > > No, not that you drift- I meant ""I've never known"" what I wanted to do > > with my > > life, specifically. Generally, yes- specifically, no. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Really? What's the 'general' plan? Play and be > happy? Love me? Well, those are all wonderful things, so yes, those are in the general plan. But what I'd usually describe the general plan as is to experience new things, new places. I don't meant be adventurous for adventure sake- I just mean opening my mind to new ways of life, new appreciation for nature, new appreciation for people. I'm not sure that really would make sense to anyone else, but it does to me. I guess to simplify it, I'd just say- to experience as many new things as possible. That usually means being confident in my abilities and judgment enough to do things in an unconventional way. I don't want the average life experience- I want to grow in a different way and therefore maybe help other people grow in different ways. > > Ok, but being asked to stop talking about something I obviously need to > > talk > > about is difficult on my psyche. I don't mean being asked to talk about > > it > > later because you're not in the mood- I mean being asked not to talk about > > it > > anymore. That kind of total shut down is impossible for me to deal with. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I know that was hard for you not to talk about > HP. I think that's the most recent instance, right? The thing was, that it > was also really hard one me (my psyche, I guess) to have to hear what was a > very similar issue set again and again, and discuss ways to change it, but > never see them implemented. I can listen to venting I think pretty well, but > somewhere around a year I can't keep my distance. I know I'm not supposed to > FIX things for you, but that one, with its recurrence, just drove me nuts, > too. I promise to try harder, and to remember to never ask you to stop > talking about an issue unless I just can't take anymore... and then I'll try > to remember to note that it is just that one issue which we can't go into, > and just for a while, at that. I know it was hard for you and I don't currently know a way to make it easier for you to hear those sorts of things. There are going to be other situations in our lives that you will want to fix, but that can't be fixed so simply. So, I hope we can figure out a way to talk without the other getting frustrated when listening.I actually think the last instance was when I'd discuss dieting. I felt that it was an off-limits topic as well- even when I'd try to talk about it with other people in your presence. > > > > [Burleson, RandyX D] I do get some enjoyment out of it - seeing > > my > > > friends, our families... but I think I get more enjoyment out of going > > > someplace warm and exotic. > > I'd like to do both. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I get that, really, I do, but considering the > costs of returning to Michigan, in addition to the opportunity cost of > missing work, I'm unable to justify two weeks off for Christmas every year > in Michigan. I will stick to my commitment and visit every other year, > though. And I definitely do not expect two weeks. I think two weeks seemed necessary to fit in ALL the friends & family in one visit. With Mel & Paul gone, that should help some. You do know that I'm only going for a week this year, right? > [Burleson, RandyX D] And I'm pleased with the results, with the > exception fo the brick trim, which I'll get over. The sideyard looks really > great, and I appreciate all the work you have put into it. We should talk > about when and what we're gonna do to the back yard, as well. Well, I can't say I'm exactly content with the way the brick trim turned out, but its there. Give me a little breathing time before we talk about the back yard. I'm kind of burnt out on landscaping at the moment. I'm still excited to PLANT my plants in the flower beds, but I don't want to think about anything new for a little bit- is that okay? > When can we let Goz on the new grass? Besides time availability for > us, that's the dependency I see for the backyard. And I guess with teh big > pile of dirt over by the psa, I'm leaning toward doing something sooner > rather than later with the backyard, as well. We should talk about this, and > also talk about what still needs doing up front. Let's see -- we need to put > the fence back up, consider clearing out some trees next to the driveway, > consider clearing out some trees over on the opposite side of the yard from > the driveway, etc. > > Doing the backyard would include demolishing that crappy little > outbuilding, putting in a stretch of drainage across the back by the walk, > possibly digging a hole for the spa, and tilling the yard. Whew. That sounds > liek a big set of commitments, and I don't think we have time to do them, > but I really dislike the big pile of drit in the yard. Anyway, we need to > sit down (I like doing this stuff over dinner, I wish I would more > frequently remember a notepad and a pen) and brainstorm what needs to be > done, the prioritize. The more i think of it, the backyard isn't going to > get done (by us) this year, but it might help me feel better about the big > ass pile of dirt if I knew at least when I expected it to be gone. > oops, too late... I hadn't seen that you started discussing the back yard before I asked that we not discuss it yet.We can let Gozar in the side yard in a couple of weeks (10 days before we are supposed to walk on it). I'd like the sprinklers fixed & hole filled in and the fence fixed, but I am flexible on when we work on clearing trees. I definitely was not planning on doing the back yard this year. *maybe* some of the initial work next spring. The pile of dirt probably should be adjusted in some way this fall- just so we don't get a really strange drainage situation. I was just thinking we could level it a bit better, possibly moving the spa closer to the house for now. The rest can wait, as far as I'm concerned. > > sorry you were pressured into helping, especially when you had other > > things on > > your plate. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Wanted to help some, but the biggest problem > was that you said, ""Hey, I can do it on my own."" It may be childish, but > when I hear that, it is liek I hear a challenge, and I want to see you do it > on your own. I'm not sure how to avoid this trap. I like it that you need my > help with things -- it is good to be needed. I know you can do just about > anything yourself, if you set your mind to it, but there are some things > that I think I know how to do better. I dunno. If you'd just tell me in > advance how much you'd appreciate it if I helped, I think I might be more > willing. I know I'm expected to pitch in maintaining the property, but the > whole 'expected' thing is a real downer, and I just don't do well with it. > Can't really explain why, but there it is. The only reason I said that I could do it myself was because you were expressing stress over the thought of helping. You were driving me crazy by making me feel bad by saying it was MY project and I was trying to let you off the hook and get you off my back. I have to honestly say that as soon as you got your way regarding where to put the dirt, I thought that you needed to participate in the work if you were going to say how it should be done. I guess I just wanted help, not advice. I'm sorry that we did not make it ""Our"" project from the beginning and decide together what needed to be done and how to do it before doing anything. Its just difficult sometimes to include you in planning things you don't seem interested in (and then you get interested in it when I've already planned it myself).I will work harder at getting your input and making it clear that it is an ""Us"" project. And if its not an ""Us"" project- if it is something I want to do on my own, I will make that clear as well. Sometimes I want to do things on my own(like my flower bed). But please tell me when you want to be involved, I'd like to do more together. But, I'd rather you warn me that you WANT to be involved first, rather than just having you GET involved after not being involved. Its like having Melanie want other people to do the cooking, but then when its your night to cook, having her following you around the kitchen telling you how it should be done. You know? > > I don't expect you to live any particular way, except being responsible > > for your > > own well-being and being there for me as a friend & lover. Maybe thats > > over-simplifying it, but sometimes I think about why I married you and its > > mostly because I like being around you. I'd like to focus on having it > > fun to > > be with each other again > [Burleson, RandyX D] Sounds good to me. I have been having more fun > with you of late, dunno if you noticed. Maybe just starting counseling was > enough to make me feel better about us, but I definitely feel like we are > picking up momentum and having more fun. Kissing you up against the wall in > the hall the other night was playful and fun that I haven't felt in a > while... you laughing at a joke which I didn't expect made me smile so much > it hurt, and I wouldd come and hugged the hll out of you if Kristy hadn't > been in the room. Lotsa little stuff lately is feeling really good with you. you make me all warm inside when you express happiness. I have definitely noticed feeling good with you too. I know you've been doing most of the contributing to this feeling up until now and I am trying to get up to speed to not just react in a loving way, but to contribute to the loving in my own ways. I'm kind of slow at first and do need this momentum to help me get going. I do want to say that I don't want just all fun & play- that there is a part of me that needs to feel secure in our relationship before I can be completely playful. That's the part that is having a difficult time making love on the drop of a hat. I will try to be more playful, and hope at times you can be more ""serious"" so I can get that comfort level- then I can evolve to much more fun & play. I hope you understand this. Please talk to me if I confuse you. > > well, if we split our earnings completely, you wouldn't have to worry > > about > > that. You wouldn't have to worry that if you make three times what I do > > some > > day, that it would feel unfair for me to spend as much as you. > [Burleson, RandyX D] That's never felt like that big of a deal, the > whole different earning thing, as long as we both are working. If we both > are putting in roughly equivalent time, I'm cool with sharing everything. > Taking time off obviously messes that up, but I'm even OK with taking a few > months off without changing the system. But what's the limit on ""a few months""? And how do we define ""equivalent time"" if I end up running my own business, or working from home? I'd honestly like to think I could work part-time, making $50/hour, instead of working full-time making $20-25/hour. I know there are no easy answers on this issue. I want to keep talking and working on them for a while before making any big decisions. > Sigh. Dunno. I don't want equality of $$ to be a big deal, and > you'll have to trust me that I don't think it really is when we both work. > OT is the issue I'm talking about now, and I've always thought that OT is > extra work, and extra hard, so it would be cool to make sure it is somehow > extra rewarding. I'd even be amenable to saying, whatever OT is made, we > s[plit between each other, with the stipulation that it is mad money -- to > buy whatever we want. Carparts for me, cameras for you. Part of me can't believe that you wouldn't be resentful that I get toys out of you working an extra 20 hours. I am still thinking about this, so don't think I'm just blowing you off. Maybe you can take some extra mad money for some of your recent OT. Let's figure out some figure that you'd feel good about. > > to be too frustrated about this, but how can you draw a line there? What > > if one > > of us is working fewer hours consistently? Should the other be > > compensated for > > working more? And honestly, we can't afford to reimburse me for three > > years of > > HP OT.I guess keep thinking about what you want and what you think is > > fair. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I will. You too. All those above situations > seem incidental to me. I won't hold it against you that you might not ake 40 > hours a week at the county. We're close, I think, in terms of what we > contribute, when we both work. I do think that work breaks where one is > working but the other not, if lasting more than a certain amount of time, > can strain this system, so we will need to address those separately, but I'm > pretty comfortable with the greater scope of how we split money. > > I'm not saying pay out three years of HP -- I'm saying, hey, let's > pick a date to account to, and figure out who's worked more OT. That's one > way of doing it. Another would be to pick a future date and say that forward > of this date, OT is play money -- and determine the split of who gets to > play with what. Mad money can be awful fun when both people hav it, and > potentially divisive if not. Obviously I'm ineterested in seeing the last > two month's 65 hours worth of OT counted into the system from Intel, but > we'll figure that out, it may not be feasible. > > > Remember, I am not the one asking or expecting you to work OT. I'd prefer > > if > > you did not. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I know that. I'd rather work 35 hours a week, > myself. But OT is likely to be a part of at least the next 2 months as I > flex to accomodate the ludicrous schedules here at Intel. I'm working hard > to eliminate OT by booking up this new guy's time and turning away work. > Trust me, I am. Thank you. I need to hear that and I need to know you're really trying to spend less time with them than me :-) > > The point of discussing what we spend OUR money on is to feel like we have > > EQUAL > > say in what we spend OUR money on. If we don't discuss purchases which > > will use > > OUR money, then there is not equal say. Just the more daring person gets > > to buy > > more. > [Burleson, RandyX D] I'm not sure I get this -- who's more daring? I feel you are. You probably think I am. Either way I know we need to discuss purchases more. > > I'm sorry you feel I am being some sort of heavy on this, but I don't feel > > like > > I get a say on how a lot of our money is spent. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Well, not a heavy, per se. I'm OK with > discussing expenses, but I want to hear 'yes' more frequently. That's human, > right? As I'm sure do you. Perhaps I need to see again where our money goes > to understand why I ever need to hear 'no.' I feel that I don't get the chance to say 'no' on so much, that by default you've assumed 'yes' on a lot of money. I know you don't mean to assume things, but haven't been seeing where our money goes and I think its harder for you to notice how fast the little things add up. I'm not trying to blame you- I just have a hard time bringing it up, especially when I wasn't bringing home a paycheck, because it looks like I'm blaming and judging you. Its been hard for us each time we've tried to discuss money and I don't like being the one that starts what turns into a fight. So I avoid, but then I get resentful.I will try to show you more where our money goes, but I'm scared. > > I know I'm not always perfect > > in notifying you before purchases every single time, but I'm sure I do > > tell you > > as soon as I can if I can't afford it with my allowance. I'm often > > surprised by > > your purchases at the end of the month when I get the credit card bill. > > Maybe > > its hard to see when you're removed from the finances and I generally > > don't > > want to rock the boat because we tend to get in fights when we talk about > > finances. I know this will be a difficult issue for us to work through. > > I want > > to do it carefully and think things through thoroughly. I will think > > about > > different ways of handling this and hope you have some ideas too. > [Burleson, RandyX D] Agreed. I don't see the credit card statement > so it is hard to say. There have been a few items where I have clearly > fallen down on the talk-first agreement, but I think most had mitigating > factors. I'm pretty sure there have been some the other way, though I'd > guess that my slips have probably been bigger. Thank you for understanding. I don't want to make this hard, I don't want to be the heavy. I just want to understand and be involved. > This may indeed be uncomfortable to talk about, but I still think we > need to do it. A little drearyness now can avoid some big arguments later. if it gets to be too much, just say so- and so will I. I so desperately don't want to fight with you. Please understand that I won't be trying to be confrontive or blaming, just that its an uncomfortable subject for us both. I love you and want to be happy together. Kammy " Kammy Burleson kammy@jps.net SMTP "Burleson, RandyX D" randyx.d.burleson@intel.com SMTP Normal Normal RE: talking "I gotta say- you made my day when I received this mail. Thanks :-) [Burleson, RandyX D] Glad to be a part of any smile you have. :) > [Burleson, RandyX D] Really? What's the 'general' plan? Play and be > happy? Love me? Well, those are all wonderful things, so yes, those are in the general plan. But what I'd usually describe the general plan as is to experience new things, new places. I don't meant be adventurous for adventure sake- I just mean opening my mind to new ways of life, new appreciation for nature, new appreciation for people. I'm not sure that really would make sense to anyone else, but it does to me. I guess to simplify it, I'd just say- to experience as many new things as possible. That usually means being confident in my abilities and judgment enough to do things in an unconventional way. I don't want the average life experience- I want to grow in a different way and therefore maybe help other people grow in different ways. [Burleson, RandyX D] OK, sounds cool. Simple concept, yet hard to express -- but I think I get it. We haven't been doing much in the way of new things and experiences -- do you have any specific suggestions or thoughts about what we can do specifically? I know it was hard for you and I don't currently know a way to make it easier for you to hear those sorts of things. There are going to be other situations in our lives that you will want to fix, but that can't be fixed so simply. So, I hope we can figure out a way to talk without the other getting frustrated when listening.I actually think the last instance was when I'd discuss dieting. I felt that it was an off-limits topic as well- even when I'd try to talk about it with other people in your presence. [Burleson, RandyX D] It wasn't off limits, it just wasn't something that interested me. YOU interest me, and the positive results of your dieting have been quite rewarding -- you look FABULOUS! Part of this is also that I'm self conscious about my weight, too. SO hopefully this won't be a trend for all things you talk about, but there may be a few that I won't want to talk much about. I'll try to be better understanding. And I definitely do not expect two weeks. I think two weeks seemed necessary to fit in ALL the friends & family in one visit. With Mel & Paul gone, that should help some. You do know that I'm only going for a week this year, right? [Burleson, RandyX D] I did not. We never discussed it, and I guess I sorta assumed. Good, that means I can play with you some over the break -- I really look forward to that. Well, I can't say I'm exactly content with the way the brick trim turned out, but its there. Give me a little breathing time before we talk about the back yard. I'm kind of burnt out on landscaping at the moment. I'm still excited to PLANT my plants in the flower beds, but I don't want to think about anything new for a little bit- is that okay? [Burleson, RandyX D] Good enough. If you can't tell, I'd sorta talked myself out of actually doing anything in the backyard this year, though I did want to schedule and plan what we were going to do this year. oops, too late... I hadn't seen that you started discussing the back yard before I asked that we not discuss it yet.We can let Gozar in the side yard in a couple of weeks (10 days before we are supposed to walk on it). I'd like the sprinklers fixed & hole filled in and the fence fixed, but I am flexible on when we work on clearing trees. [Burleson, RandyX D] Cool. I think he'll really like the grass, and completing the fence will be the last thing I need to do to feel like we've 'finished' the side yard. The gate can come later, with a little planning for where we do fence posts. It is definitely a separate project for later, and doesn't impact the conclusiveness of this one. I definitely was not planning on doing the back yard this year. *maybe* some of the initial work next spring. The pile of dirt probably should be adjusted in some way this fall- just so we don't get a really strange drainage situation. I was just thinking we could level it a bit better, possibly moving the spa closer to the house for now. The rest can wait, as far as I'm concerned. [Burleson, RandyX D] Deal. If I really get motivated -- and I doubt it, I'll move the spa over to its final resting area, and spread the dirt out. The only reason I said that I could do it myself was because you were expressing stress over the thought of helping. You were driving me crazy by making me feel bad by saying it was MY project and I was trying to let you off the hook and get you off my back. [Burleson, RandyX D] That didn't work at all, you know? NOt recriminating, just observing in retrospect... I have to honestly say that as soon as you got your way regarding where to put the dirt, I thought that you needed to participate in the work if you were going to say how it should be done. [Burleson, RandyX D] Ok. I get that. Do you think that in retrospect, having been there and done that, it was better for short wheelbarrow trips, as opposed to long trips around the house? (Please say yes) I guess I just wanted help, not advice. [Burleson, RandyX D] That's fair. I'll try to help more and advise less. I'm sorry that we did not make it ""Our"" project from the beginning and decide together what needed to be done and how to do it before doing anything. Its just difficult sometimes to include you in planning things you don't seem interested in (and then you get interested in it when I've already planned it myself).I will work harder at getting your input and making it clear that it is an ""Us"" project. And if its not an ""Us"" project- if it is something I want to do on my own, I will make that clear as well. Sometimes I want to do things on my own(like my flower bed). But please tell me when you want to be involved, I'd like to do more together. But, I'd rather you warn me that you WANT to be involved first, rather than just having you GET involved after not being involved. Its like having Melanie want other people to do the cooking, but then when its your night to cook, having her following you around the kitchen telling you how it should be done. You know? [Burleson, RandyX D] Exactly. That's a good comparison, and I don't want to be that way. Please do try to involve me from the get-go -- and I'm hoping that involvement from the beginning will help you listen more to what I want, and any experience that I might have on doing something. It is a good time to point out that the yard looks great, and that you did a great job. Remind yourself of that, OK -- this has been a definite net success. you make me all warm inside when you express happiness. [Burleson, RandyX D] Great. That's what I miss the most about our last few months -- the warm feeling of having fun with you and just being free anmd happy. It is nice to feel that starting to come back. I have definitely noticed feeling good with you too. I know you've been doing most of the contributing to this feeling up until now and I am trying to get up to speed to not just react in a loving way, but to contribute to the loving in my own ways. [Burleson, RandyX D] Thanks for noticing. Whatever we're doing, dunno, is helping me along -- and th