From Wed Jan 31 4:32:39 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 4:32:39 -30000 From: Subject: Undeliverable Message Cc: From "Steve Reddock" Tue Jan 30 05:35:14 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 05:35:14 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: What is a cresent wrench? Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Ta, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Tue Jan 30 11:33:59 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:33:59 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: wider wheel offsets for series Landrover Forward Control rims to get this advantage. They were 5 >Regards, Ian Ian, The 101 *is* six stud.But the 11A @ 11B 110FC are five stud.Perhaps these are what you bought? Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Tue Jan 30 11:50:01 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:50:01 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a *bicycle*.Also used on some good quality steam fittings.The "nut" would be round,with grooves along its length.The spanner,shaped like a "C" had a little lug on the outer end that engaged with one of the grooves.Used before we found out how to make things badly.On a bike,it is,(or was) used to tighten or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame. But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery. Cheers Mike Rooth From Ron Franklin Tue Jan 30 08:24:50 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 08:24:50 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Re: Re[2]: Collywobbles -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus > Sent: 28 January 1996 20:04 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] (read: steering relay-rjf) out of > the chassis without nuclear explosives or a cutting torch? -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- The steering on my old beast had about 15 degrees of play due to a combination of worn out rod ends and wear in the splines of the relay and both relay arms. (Be sure to keep the pinch bolts on these arms tight or the movement will ruin the splines). The arms and rod ends were easy, but the relay could have been welded in and no amount of hammering, penetrating oil or heat caused even the slightest movement. Even jacking the vehicle up using the relay shaft so the weight of the front end was on the relay didn't work. I finally had to remove the grill and radiator and build a fixture involving bars on top of the frame drilled to take 3/4 inch threaded rod. The rods went down along the sides of the crossmember and connected to another bar against the relay shaft, using spacer blocks as necessary. by tightening nuts on the bottom of the lower bar I was able to put enough pressure on the relay to cause the top of the crossmember to start to distort. At that point I got out the hammer and managed to get the thing to move about 1/32 of an inch, enough to make a beer seem in order. From then on it was a slow process of tighten, hammer, tighten, hammer, beer....going on for about 3 hours. When the relay had moved high enough to get it above the top mounting flanges I was able top use a large drift and hammer to turn it back and forth in its socket by banging on the bosses for the bolts. It finally came out, but fought up to the last 1/2 inch. What had been holding it was 29 years of rust which had expanded the diameter of the relay enough to effectively make it an interference fit in its bore. The new relay dropped right in. Have fun. -- Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 30 8:40:39 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 8:40:39 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: D90/hard cold re-start Thanks to all who replied to my questions about the hard re-start in cold conditions. Barnett (The truck's n' gear and the transmission brake is OFF!) Childress From 73363.427@compuserve.com 30 96 Jan EST 1908 Date: 30 Jan 96 08:43:27 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Heater thoughts >> If you have passengers very often, I would recommend installing an auxiliary heater in the rear. I just put one in a couple days ago and its great. Its a small box that hooks into the existing heater lines and has a built-in fan...If you want some more info, e-mail me and I'll describe the whole arrangement. << What did you use for a core. I was thinking of trying this with a old series two combined core and fan but haven't found a spare yet. Not that it is really needed down here. >> In a pinch, however, a large screwdriver (square shaft) with a crescent wrench on the shaft will usually free the plug. When you replace it, use some anti-sieze, and you'll only have to use the screwdriver in the future. I know, I know, use the proper tool for the job. But after a while you start carrying around so many tools that you run out of room for the cooler! :) << You actually already have the tool. Try inserting a 9/16" open end wrench sideways into the slot. Works like a charm. Use the largest wrench size that will fit. I used a Craftsman drag link socket for years until I saw a picture in LRO or LRW of someone doing it this way. Made me feel like an idiot! Sometimes the simplest solutions avoid us. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 30-Jan-1996 From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 96 Jan EST 1908 Date: 30 Jan 96 8:44:22 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Series - Boston Area US - Anybody got a spare front propshaft? I have a terminal case of spline death in my front propshaft, the weather sucks and no one has any new spares ( and I do mean NO ONE). Anyboy got a spare in good condition they want to sell? aj"In 2-wheel drive for the present time"r From azw@aber.ac.uk Tue Jan 30 14:03:34 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:03:34 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk Subject: Handbrake steering >There is more to handbrake steering than the 180s practiced (but never >perfected) by cretins in McDonalds' carparks. It is possible to very [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >that any idiot can do it. BTW this is not one of my hooligan manoeuvres, >this occurs on proper stage rallys. I have happy memories of the wide eyes of the opposition at Harrisons Rocks car park (talus surface), when I came in driving my old mini, doing about 40, yanked the handbrake and spun it thru 270 degrees to park perfectly, facing outwards exactly centred in teh parking space between them and the bus on the other side. They looked a little wobbly when they got out of the car. My passengers were used to this sort of thing and just got out, picked up the climbing gear and strolled casually off discussing which pub to visit at lunchtime. Multo cool-points......... I used to enjoy this sort of thing when I was a kid.......... From Ron Franklin Tue Jan 30 09:46:22 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:46:22 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Trade/swap -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I'm a little embarrassed to post this for what it says about me. I have two aircraft projects (1934 and 1935 Fairchild C8C and C8D), that I'd be willing to trade for a good Series or RR. I am asking $23,000 as a straight sale, so it would be nice to swap for something really nice or trade plus cash. Projects not wanted as too many is the reason for the sale. If any of you are as odd/crazy as I am you know who you are, and can e-mail me direct at oldhaven@biddeford.com for details, and spare the list any further distractions. -- Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 08:54:30 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:54:30 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Series II Insurance > I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65 IIa on the road last year they listed is as a 1965 Range Rover. A few other people with Allstate have had the same experience. No differance in premiums though (!!!!).> I succesfully insured with Allstate also, but left them when they posted my payment to someone elses account, canceled me for non-payment (which I didn't find out about for over a month) then wanted to put me in the high risk group because I hadn't had insurance within the past 30 days. I prefer not to deal with companies like that. But, if it's that or no insurance.... Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "John C. White, III" Tue Jan 30 06:55:40 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:55:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? At 11:50 30.01.96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >>crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >>my life suddenly be complete if I get one? ======================= What Mike Rooth said in response ==================== Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a *bicycle*.Also used on some good quality steam fittings.The "nut" would be round,with grooves along its length.The spanner,shaped like a "C" had a little lug on the outer end that engaged with one of the grooves.Used before we found out how to make things badly.On a bike,it is,(or was) used to tighten or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame. But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery. Cheers Mike Rooth ============================================================================= Now I'm confused. I know what a crescent wrench is, and I was under the impression it was called an "adjustable spanner" in Britain. The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear mechanism that moves the lower jaw closer to (or farther away from) the upper jaw. I've heard what we call a pipewrench or monkey wrench referred to as an adjustable spanner as well, but in my dialect of the American variant of English a pipewrench's jaws aren't crescent shaped. They're straight and have toothed edges designed to grip pipes. Also a pipewrench's handles are perpendicular to its jaws whereas a crescent wrench's handle go off at about 60 degrees from perpendicular. I don't think either device has completed anyone's life, but they are handy if you have an incomplete toolbox. Now if someone could tell me what Whitworths are, and who Whitworth was that I should be mindful of him maybe my life would be complete. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California From bcooper@3wnet.com (Bill Cooper) Tue Jan 30 09:50:42 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:50:42 EST From: bcooper@3wnet.com (Bill Cooper) Subject: Series Insurance Hi there, I don't know if this will help, but I have had my 66 IIa insured through State Farm in New Jersey for the last 8 years or so, and there has been no problem. As for Comprehensive and collision, we have an 'Agreed Value' on the vehicle which is their standard policy for any non-standard vehicle. Also, on the main page of the policy, they do list it as a Land Rover, not a Range Rover, so somebody in the company knows what it is. Hope this helps, Bill Cooper bcooper@3wnet.com http://www.3wnet.com From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 30 07:20:12 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:12 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) wrote: >Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already >is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Cheers >Mike Rooth Have I been living in tool oblivion for all these years? Everyone here that I've worked with calls what I described (previous post) a crescent wrench... But I'm not one to get bogged down in nomenclature... Adjustable wrench, cresent wrench...what's the difference. Land Rover, Jeep...what's the....sorry, bad analogy. Regards, Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 30 07:20:00 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:00 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, "Steve Reddock" wrote: >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? A crescent wrench in the U.S. is also known as an 'adjustable wrench'. It has a thumbscrew which adjusts one end of the jaws to fit most any nut or bolt within reasonable size ranges. I'm generally not a fan of these tools when in the shop (plenty of proper size spanners available) but out on the trail, or on the other side of the farm, they substitute for a whole tool box full. No, having one will not cause you some mystical revelation :), but its nice and handy to have around. Regards, Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 30 07:20:18 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:18 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: heater mods. On Tue, 30 Jan 96, asd1@ukc.ac.uk wrote: > Could you please send the details to me as I was as cold as hell >with the recent weather. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >with the recent weather. > Why does'nt the LR heater work in the extrem cold ? The mice that power it are hibernating! :) Regards, Eric From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 09:22:31 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:22:31 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Polarity change Rich Ziegler writes snip > flash with a hot wire from the battery. Also he left out switching the two small leads going to the coil. Other than these two points > he covered the subject well. snip If I remember correctly you don't actually have to do it, you car will still run, BUT you want to be sure to because your plugs will degrade more quickly because bits of metal move in the wrong direction when they fire if your polarity isn't right. This applies also when you disconnect your coil for any reason. Make sure you reconnect the wires to the right terminal. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 09:33:02 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:33:02 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: till we meet again Well folks, it seems today may be the last day for awhile, assuming I've interpreted the messages from Bill properly. It's been real and I'll see you on the flip side. Or in the mud :-) Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 09:17:24 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:17:24 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? > Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a > crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will > my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Yes, your life will be complete, you can ship me your lightweight, roll over and die happy. ;-) Actually a Crescent wrench is an adjustable open end spanner made by Crescent. The proper name , here in the US, is an adjustable wrench, but Crescent is the most famous so that's what people tend to call all adjustable wrenches. They are also know affectionally as knuckle busters because of the effect they have when they slip off the nut (you have to be carefull about getting them adjusted to fit properly). As a pipe weldor/fitter and iron worker I used them alot because I was always working with different sized nuts & bolts and lugging a tool box up a column isn't my idea of fun. You really don't need them around cars. Crescent makes other types of wrenches as well. There are a number of mechanics tools on this side of the pond that are similarly mislabeled. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 30 07:43:49 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:43:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Mike Rooth wrote: > >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)] > >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will > >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? > Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already > is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame. > But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery. Ah, the wonders of the "English" language, and all its infinite permutations. Here in the (former) colonies, a Crescent wrench has an adjustable open end, with the working end set off at about a 30-40 degree angle from the handle, and the jaw forming four sides of a hex, the better to grab a hex head nut. I believe it was originally produced by a company using the name "Crescent" but it has long since come off patent and is produced by practically everybody. The outside of the head is rounded, and with the jaw open resembles a crescent of sorts. A good one can be very useful; a bad one with loose tolerances will quickly round over every nut it touches. The same can be said of the users. Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 96 Jan EST 1911 Date: 30 Jan 96 11:14:48 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Get the members list! If the LRO list doesn't come back up, it might be something you want to have. You can get it from majordomo. I have it - you thought I'd let you all get away that easily? BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaa..... aj"Till then"r From Susan Dykstra (ArtSource) Tue Jan 30 09:27:51 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:27:51 TZ From: Susan Dykstra (ArtSource) Subject: Selling my Defender 90... I have a blue 1994 Defender 90 with a safari cage and extra back seat. I has 22,000 miles on it and I'm selling it for $26,000. It's in perfect condition. If you are interested, or know of someone who is looking for a Defender, I'm at a-susdy@microsoft.com - that's Seattle, Washington. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 96 Jan EST 1913 Date: 30 Jan 96 13:04:24 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Series Rover Tip: Harmonic noises from exhaust If you get a "Booming" sound or excessive engine noise at certain speeds, check the mounts on your exhaust. I had this problem, and it turned out that the center clamp on my exhaust (under the driver's seat) had loosened, allowing the whole length of header pipe and intermediate pipe to resonate. I replaced the clamp (after shearing the old one...oops) and the noise was dramatically diminished. C U Later -Alan From "Andrew A. Dallas" Tue Jan 30 13:18:42 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:18:42 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Re: Selling my Defender 90... >I have a blue 1994 Defender 90 with a safari cage and extra back seat. >I has 22,000 miles on it and I'm selling it for $26,000. It's in >perfect condition. If you are interested, or know of someone who is >looking for a Defender, I'm at a-susdy@microsoft.com - that's >Seattle, Washington. A "perfect" Defender? Are you sure it's a Land Rover? -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From KKelly6788@aol.com Tue Jan 30 13:23:04 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:23:04 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Land Rover Insurance >I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65 >IIa on the road last year they listed is as a 1965 Range Rover. Be very careful with insurance companies, when I had a '79 BMW 635csi (a car that was not sold by BMW North America) my insurance company insured it as a 633csi. This was fine with me and I never had any problems. After I sold the car I heard about a guy with a BMW 323i (another model that was never sold in the US) that had his car insured as a 318i, the insurance company paid what a 318i was worth (thousands less) when it was stolen. A few years later I had the chance to buy a 323i I made sure to have the car appraised and pay (extra) for a "stated value policy". I won't go in to details but, I totaled the car and Farmers Insurance Company offered me 50% of my "stated value". I am not the only guy who has had this problem, in the November '95 BMW club magazine there was an article "Stated Value? Hah!" It wouldn't surprise me if an insurance company offered to pay a Series owner that has his vehicle insured as a '65 Range Rover the value of a '65 Range Rover (They don't exist = $0). Moral of the story If you own a car that is not in the Blue Book or if you policy does not list the exact model you have ask a lot of questions and get every thing they say in writing. Kevin Kelly From SLYKDYK@aol.com Tue Jan 30 13:40:05 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:40:05 -0500 From: SLYKDYK@aol.com Subject: flooded Disco Had my Disco flood on starting while I was at 9700 ft above sea level and the temp was @ 0 f. The service rep at the California dealer talked about pulling plugs so cylinders could dry out if flooded badly!!! Not my idea of fun at those temps. Called the dealer in Colorado Springs...They said disconnect the electic fuel pump at firewall where there is a roll over switch and the pump engine out with the starter for a short period of time...reconnected the pump and it fired right up.Never had to do this again but you folks with efi and electric pumps might keep it in mind.. From Jimi Patel Tue Jan 30 12:00:06 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:00:06 -0800 From: Jimi Patel Subject: Re: import/export company >From jimi Fri Apr 21 14:45 PDT 1995 id AA12378; Fri, 21 Apr 95 14:45:46 -0700 From smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith) Tue Jan 30 13:28:18 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:28:18 -0800 From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith) Subject: Intoduction/Disco accessories Hello everyone: I am new to the list. I am also a new Owner of a 1996 Discovery my first Land Rover. My favorite mail group is the euro-moto list for european motorcycle enthusiasts. I Own a 1987 Moto Guzzi LeMans 1000 SE. Does anyone know of a good source for after market accessories, other than those sold by the dealers. In particular I would like to find some running boards that look more like the ones on a Ni***n P*th***der as well as a push bar/brush guard. I also am interested in finding a trailer setup to pull my Moto Guzzi. I live in San Francisco, but mail order is no problem, if it is the right thing. I would be happy to post my impressions of the new Discovery if anyone is interested. Lastly, does anyone know the availability (in the US) and price range of the 1984 90 inch Pick up? Regards, Jeff Smith. S.E. Chair SEAONC Computer Applications Committee phone: (415) 543-8651 fax: (415) 543-8679 email: smthengr@sirius.com Smith Engineering 27 South Park San Francisco, CA 94107 From ChrisF6724@aol.com Tue Jan 30 15:33:27 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:33:27 -0500 From: ChrisF6724@aol.com Subject: re: insurance I am currently using State Farm. They could not find Land Rover listed on the computer, so they checked under "Rover". According to them, my primary car is now a '73 Rover. I think my rates are somewhere around $320 every 6 months. (Anyone know if this is high?, it doen't seem like it to me...) I don't think it will cover "off-road" accidents though... BTW age 28, married, no accidents, multicar, $500 deductable, full coverage. Chris Fisher, '73 88 Series 3 Fisher Associates Architects and Engineers Denver, Colorado From Shaun Carrigan Tue Jan 30 14:50:19 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:50:19 -0500 From: Shaun Carrigan Subject: Rear window defroster Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it = seems like it would either work or it wouldn't. Yet mine works on a = couple of wires near the top of the window, skips a wire, works = again on a wire and then =8B this is the part I really don't = understand =8B heats up a short section in the middle of a wire, with = no apparent resistance on either side of it. This leaves me rather, = well, foggy... Thanks for your thoughts, and thanks for the many responses to my = recent post about electric seat switches. I fixed mine with a can of = tuner cleaner and sent the $100 replacement back to Atlantic = British. Shaun Carrigan '88 RR From ASFCO@aol.com Tue Jan 30 16:07:21 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:07:21 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Series: Re: Heater thoughts How about using one of the 12 v ceramic heaters I've seen in catalogues advertised as Back Seat Heat at around $ 90.00 have seen another similar one at $ 49 from Northern Hydraulics....wonder if they would be able to do the job... Rgds, Steve Bradke From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Jan 30 16:24:05 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 16:24:05 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Intoduction/Disco accessories To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Hello everyone: I am new to the list. I am also a new Owner of my first Land Rover. Hey, nice to meet you. Try ROvers North 802-879-0032 in VT. or Atlantic British 800 533 2210 in NY I'm not sure but maybe British pacific in Burbank, CA 800 554 4133 Nice knowin' ya, and everyone else too. Cheers Dave From Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Tue Jan 30 14:42:36 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:42:36 -0600 From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Subject: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system Hi all, I posted this message 1/27/96 but I believe many of us did not receive the full list. So I post here again (I would really hear the answer). Question was: I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 torque split)? I think they are. Then, what would be the superiority of LR products in terms of drivetrain? For example, do LRs still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need suspension travel)? Please excuse my ignorance. Happy Rovering! Insoo 95 Red 5spd Disco (Mistress) Salt Lake City, Utah, USA From "Andrew A. Dallas" Tue Jan 30 16:49:06 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:49:06 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Re: Rear window defroster The defroster in many cars is an electrically conductive paint applied to the window. The paint has a certain electrical resistance which causes it to warm when current passes through it. The warming paint then causes the window to warm. Frequently these defrosters get scratched. The scratch causes the circuit to be broken. If the circuit isn't complete, current doesn't flow through it and the paint doesn't warm. You can find paint to repair these scratches in most auto parts stores. I haven't used any so I can't suggest a manufacturer. BTW. I'm jealous of your even limited ability to defog. My Defender has the post snow instant fog option with no defogger. -AD >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it = [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)] >Shaun Carrigan >'88 RR ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Jan 30 16:56:26 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 16:56:26 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Perfect Land Rovers A "perfect" Defender? Are you sure it's a Land Rover? Actually its probably just one with no electrics. There's also a perfect Disco available (no steering column) and a Perfect Range Rover (no gas tank) Oh yeah, and the perfect Series (no Previous Owner) OK that's it. Ciao. Sayonnara (sp?) Adios Au revoir BYe Cheers Toodles Alright that's enough melodramatic crap. The list is coming back. Don't worry. Latex Dave From Tebbin Salvesen Tue Jan 30 16:45:58 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:45:58 -0700 (MST) From: Tebbin Salvesen Subject: rover rentals Does anyone know of a rental co. in Jolly olde england-e that might have either RR or Discos for rent? I'm going in may for a month and would like to rent something that i know well as driving is somewhat hectic over there! thanks! tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us From DRead@gnn.com (David Read) Tue Jan 30 19:19:23 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:19:23 From: DRead@gnn.com (David Read) Subject: Series IIa Side lenses A few days ago there was a flurry of msgs regarding how to remove the side lenses in "later series". I read these with interest 'cause I have a '71 SIIa (TKACHNC) with a burned out side light. I don't remember who described how to remove the lens but the method was to *carefully* pry the rubber seal...etc. Well, I started to *carefully* pry the seal and it *slowly* started to tear. I assume that this seal is original and will probably give its all before it allows the lens to be removed. Does anyone know if the just gaskets (seals) are available anywhere? I checked the catalog I got from Atl. Brit and the only thing they have is a complete lamp assembly (actually, they sell them in pairs, 2 for $22). I haven't yet checked w/RN. Thanks in advance, David From Wdcockey@aol.com Tue Jan 30 19:33:55 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:33:55 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system In a message dated 96-01-30 17:02:35 EST, you write: -I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 -wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 -torque split)? I think they are. Then, what would be the superiority of LR -products in terms of drivetrain? With a part time system in 4wd, or a full time system with center diff locked, the front rear torque split varies depended on the relative loads on the front and rear tires. In this case think of your propshaft as one continuous length of (flexible) tubing. If the front tires are on wet glare ice, and the rear tires are on dry pavement then the torque split is 100%-0%. Reverse your LR and the torque split is 0%-100%. With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a part-time system due to the type of transfer case. BUT with a full time system you don't have to continually decide when to shift to 4wd because conditions are deteriorating, and when to shift to 2wd because traction is improving. Also vehicle stability may be improved on marginal traction surfaces. Only when conditions are really bad and locked center diff. is necessary are the systems equal. David Cockey From Michael Carradine Tue Jan 30 16:29:17 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:29:17 -0800 From: Michael Carradine Subject: Re: Enough! At 12:42 PM 1/30/96 -0800, Sue Bernard wrote: >Michael, what I'm trying to figure out it why you ask Bob and Scotty all >these questions??? Frankly, Sue, it's none of your business! Bob and I wrote each other occassionally, and he even answered this latest email you posted (should I post his reply too? :) . If he doesn't care for my email or questions I'm sure he's man enough to say so... aren't you Bob?? >Perhaps someone else can give you a satisfactory answer since you seem to >think both Bob and Scotty talk in circles, so I'm posting your latest >message to Bob to the Left Coast List with this thought in mind. Well, this is definetly a first. I know you share a mailbox, and most likely read each others mail, but why you publicly post 'private' mail to another individual is beyond me. Between this and the latest LROA fiasco you drew me into, I can only conclude that your medication has lapsed. Out of pity to you and deference to Bob, I'll restrain myself from further comment, except to say that deleting your further email messages is easy enough, while having the members of the LROA in these trying times dominated by your unpredictable siamesian schizophrenic personality is another matter. >Cheers, I don't think so, and you shouldn't either. ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html >Sue Bernard >---------------------------- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 89 lines)] >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU Tue Jan 30 19:56:35 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:56:35 -0400 (EDT) From: KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU Subject: looking for a rover Hello, I am looking for a 1969 or earlier IIa or III. Basically looking for and everyday vehicle that I can fusts around with. Want it to have a solid frame, good body panels, good interior and good engine. I am willing to put some work into it but nothing to major. Right now, I lack the resources of a garage. Want it fully runnning and able to be driven home. Also willing to have a frame put in it as long as everything else is in great shape. I realize I'll probably be spending a certain amount whether I buy it or put a new frame on it. Hope you can help, Kropp_J@Denison.Edu From Bombdiver@aol.com Tue Jan 30 20:17:58 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:17:58 -0500 From: Bombdiver@aol.com Subject: Unimog That interesting Unimog that you saw with the front-end loader and the folding bucket in the back is known as the C-Tool. It's used by Army for EOD work as well as combat engineers. It'll do anything from excavating buried ordnance to making the perfect size foxhole. The Army has an instructional course located at Redstone Arsenal. The Navy doesn't use it because you can't fit it into a Zodiac and it's not airdrop capable. Cheers, Andy From Ron Franklin Tue Jan 30 20:58:16 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 20:58:16 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Fwd: Trade/swap -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 30 18:06:43 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: looking for a rover So where is denison.edu? Good luck on that pre 1969 Series III. And is your search worldwide? wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us On Tue, 30 Jan 1996 KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU wrote: > Hello, > I am looking for a 1969 or earlier IIa or III. Basically looking for [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > realize I'll probably be spending a certain amount whether I buy it or put a > new frame on it. > Hope you can help, Kropp_J@Denison.Edu From Duncan Brown Tue Jan 30 21:30:54 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:30:54 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Lucas lamp parts All, > Does anyone know if the just gaskets (seals) are available anywhere? I > checked the catalog I got from Atl. Brit and the only thing they have > is a complete lamp assembly (actually, they sell them in pairs, 2 for > $22). I haven't yet checked w/RN. My favorite source for Lucas lamp parts is The Roadster Factory in Armagh, PA. (Can you tell I used to own Triumphs?) They have original Lucas parts where possible, and "British Motor Heritage Approved" repros where necessary (complete with original Lucas part numbers for you purists!) If you know your part numbers, call 800-678-8764 If you need part number assistance, call 800-234-1104 Worldwide fax ordering is 814-446-6729 (Things go smoother once you have an established customer number with them...) I will list the lamp part numbers here for reference. Also note that many other parts (generator, starter, etc) are nearly identical to Triumph or MG equivalents, often differing just in the drive gear or pulley or whatever. Bush/brush/bearing type parts are cheap and identical from these guys. POINTED LENS PARTS: -- LU54581622 Clear lens -- LU54581651 Amber lens -- LU576105 Rubber body (short) [this is the "gasket" part] FLAT LENS PARTS: -- LU54583038 Clear lens -- LU575003 Rubber body (long) COMMON PARTS: -- LU572734 Chrome rim -- LU54584780 Bulb holder plate, single filament (typical for LR's) -- LU576985 Bulb holder plate, dual filament (get creative!) When I got my truck, it had no front marker/signal lights. I put together a set from these very parts, with clear pointed lenses for marker lights and amber pointed lenses for turn signals. I have also seen original Series II/IIA LR's with amber pointed for signals and clear FLAT for markers. Whatever trips your trigger! Hope this helps someone...TRF is a great company, in my experience. Duncan From Jeff & Laura Kessler Tue Jan 30 22:01:37 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:01:37 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Re: Rear window defroster At 02:50 PM 1/30/96 -0500, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it = [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] >Shaun Carrigan >'88 RR Shaun I saw a response to you saying the wires are painted on the rear window and it reminded me. Some years ago VW had a repair kit for their rear defrosters that was not much more than some masking tape and a tube of paint for repairing breaks in the wire. You may find such a kit in a auto parts store. Good Luck. Jeff Kessler 1988 Range Rover Newport New Hampshire 603-863-7883 PS I too used the tuner cleaner to get my seats running. From HMEdwards@aol.com Tue Jan 30 22:50:45 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:50:45 -0500 From: HMEdwards@aol.com Subject: Re: Series: Oil drain spanner Tim, I spent many efforts trying to find what in somes areas is called a "dogbone", with numerous projections at each end to fit recessed plugs. No such luck, Mac tools, Snap On, Sears and JC Whitless all came up with a blank look. Even tried tracking down a company which had produced them. Closed up shop. However, the boy and girls at Sears do sell 1/2 inch. open end wrenches, which when turned on side fit the slot perfectly. And if it breaks, they give you a new one. Harry Edwards Las Vegas 72 Series III From Jeff & Laura Kessler Tue Jan 30 23:15:24 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:24 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Re: Land Rover Insurance At 01:23 PM 1/30/96 -0500, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] >Blue Book or if you policy does not list the exact model you have ask a lot >of questions and get every thing they say in writing. >Kevin Kelly As an insurance agent I know about stated value. It is not worth the extra you get charged for it. The Stated Value endorsement to an auto policy (and there may be some variations state to state) says it will pay the LESS of either the stated value or the actual cash value of the auto. Think about this: You insure your auto with the stated value endorsement for $10,000. You pay for $10,000 of coverage. 1. Say the actual cash value (ACV) is $5000 (market conditions or it rusted out etc) when you are totaled or what ever. You get $5000 less your deductible. 2. Say it increases in value, it is now worth $15,000. You get $10,000 less the deductible. The regular old, plain auto policy pays actual cash value at the time of the loss. The stated value endorsement does nothing for the buyer of the policy. It may help the insurance company put a cap on an auto they do not know. BUT Land Rovers from 65-70 and from 87 have insurance rating symbols assigned to determine what companies should charge. What you want for an endorsement (good luck) is the agreed value endorsement. This means they will repair, replace or pay up to the agreed amount of insurance on the auto. Fire trucks are usually insured this way since they are well cared for and tend to have very little use for their age. If you have pictures, receipts etc to justify what you think it is worth so much the better. Anyhow, I hope this is of some help and not too confusing and I usually do not like to talk insurance after work. Jeff Kessler 1988 Range Rover (an insurance symbol of 17 on a scale of 1 to 21) Newport New Hampshire 603-863-7883 From Pat Guerin Tue Jan 30 18:48:14 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:48:14 -1000 (HST) From: Pat Guerin Subject: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update Aloha from Hawaii! Just got back the D90 and here's a recap for those suffering the same problem: 1. Passenger Seat Rattling due to cracked seat runner. Replaced with MXC5778 (new subframe). 2. The shop updated the latch assembly and only changed the cable due to the wear and tear it took until then. Now it works like a charm. Gee now I can use two fingers :) We now have about 18K on the odometer and no other problems to report. Aloha for now... pat From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Tue Jan 30 21:51:52 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:51:52 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Crescent wench (n) A babe from Turkey. (Opps... wrong book) Crescent Wrench (n) An adjustable spanner. Comes in Metric, SAE and Whitworth sizes. Cheers Mike From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Tue Jan 30 21:51:51 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:51:51 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Polarity change Rich Ziegler replies... - Ashley Horn asked for instructions on reversing polarity and -Mike L. replied. But, he flashed the wrong terminal on the -generator. Instructions I have in hand and have successfully used -for years say the smaller terminal (field terminal) is the one to -flash with a hot wire from the battery. Also he left out switching -the two small leads going to the coil. Other than these two points Thanks, Rich... Somewhere around here I have real Lucas instructions on how to polarize a generator. They came with a rebuilt generator for my Triumph. But it's been a while and the old memory is missing a bit or two... And, I completely forgot about the coil polarity. Not a major point, but you will get a hotter spark if it is connected correctly. One of my books show checking the spark by bouncing it off a lead pencil. You can tell if the coil is connected correctly based on the color and direction of the spark on the lead... (WARNING!! All you kids with Discos and Rangies... don't be trying this with your Mont Blanc pens!!) Cheers Mike From kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Wed Jan 31 09:01:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:01:00 UTC 0000 From: kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: D90, Hood Latch (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions There have been numerous postings on the D90 hood latch. If it takes more than two fingers worth of pull, and pulls out more than an inch before releasing, it is likely faulty and will need to be repaired. The problem is that the factory cable routing is incorrect, so if they route the new cable the same way as the old one it won't last very long. My garage found a factory fix for it when installing the third cable and now it works very well. Bill Kessels, 94D90, Ottawa Ontario From "Steve Reddock" Wed Jan 31 04:54:09 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:54:09 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth Hi all, Thanks for the help with crescent wrenches, I'll guess Mike was wrong and it is an adjustable spanner. The pipe spanner someone mentioned with serrated teeth and a similar thumb wheel which operates teeth PERPENDICULAR to the handle (also with a slight spring controlled movement to tighten the grip as you pull) are called Stilsons, presumably a brand name here. There are also another type, often called pipe grips, which I call footprints, which are similar to parrot faces (cos they look like parrot faces!) which are like a pair of bent pliers with a moveable pivot. Are the people who think up these things on medication? Whitworth is the name of a thread standard. It is quite cunning as the head of the nut/bolt is a size directly related to the thread diameter (in inches). It a 1/2" whit nut refers to a nut which takes a half inch diameter whit bolt. The head for this will be considerably larger & the half inch spanner will look more like a 1 inch. It is rarely used these days, most people are unaware of a whit nut when they find one and assume it is a worn UNF or something, until the try and replace the nut! The only whit nut I know of on a landy are the bolts holding the handbrake drum on. There may be more. If this is the end of the list, so long and thanks for all the fish. Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Wed Jan 31 08:57:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 08:57:00 UTC 0000 From: kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: D90, snow in engine (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions John Putham had a problem with his Series II engine being covered in ice and snow. Last weekend I was staying over in a small town in Quebec, when we had a brutal wind/ice/rain storm. When I went out in the morning to start the D90, I noticed the wind had forced a large quantity of snow through the hard top weatherstripping into the Rover. I tried to start it, lots of battery juice, but it wouldn't catch. Having driven fuel injected cars for 15 years, I am very paranoid about flooding, so I stopped at three attempts (at this point I thought I had already flooded it). Popped the hood, and saw to my dismay the distributer, alternator and most of the plug wires were covered in ice--alas, there is no weather stripping between the bonnet and the wings(and a 1cm gap). I plugged in the block heater for a couple of hours, borrowed some WD-40 like stuff from a nearby garage, scraped off the ice and doused the whole works. It started. I had to put up with the razzing from my friends that my expensive, heavy duty vehicle wouldn't start, but at least I didn't have to suffer the degregation of having it towed away! Now I carry WD-40 with me, and am looking for a solution to better seal the bonnet. Bill Kessels, 94D90, Ottawa Ontario From "Matthew Loxton" Wed Jan 31 09:48:30 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:48:30 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Crescent Wrench John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear.. Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is the thing referred to as "crescent wrench". The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin). The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just "wrench". SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an Islamic one?) From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Jan 31 07:29:22 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:29:22 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re-galvanizing/Baltimore Someone mentioned a place in the Baltimore area that does galvanizing..Does anyone have the Name or phone number of that place?? Thanks, Steve From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 04:52:37 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:52:37 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Series: Re: Heater thoughts On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, ASFCO@AOL.COM wrote: >How about using one of the 12 v ceramic heaters I've seen in catalogues >advertised as Back Seat Heat at around $ 90.00 have seen another similar one >at $ 49 from Northern Hydraulics....wonder if they would be able to do the >job... I think these types of heaters draw a significant amount of power from the vehicle's electric system, at least much more than a heater fan. The electric units I've seen listed put out something like 3000 BTU (unknown current draw), my coolant 'powered' unit puts out 16,000 with less than 5 amps at full fan speed. If this is so, then most series LRs would never have the power to keep such an electrical accesory working, except maybe at highway speeds. You would then have to change the charging system... Hope this helps. Regards, Eric From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Jan 31 08:26:50 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:26:50 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: West Coast re-galvanizing also supposed to be a place on the West Coast that does regalvinizing work for British Northwest L-R...anybody know who that might be??? Thanks. Steve From "Tom Rowe" Wed Jan 31 07:31:44 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:31:44 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Enough! Huh? Please take stuff like this outside. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Matthew Loxton" Wed Jan 31 12:31:31 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 12:31:31 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Crescent Wrench John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear.. Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is the thing referred to as "crescent wrench". The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin). The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just "wrench". SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an Islamic one?) From "John C. White, III" Wed Jan 31 06:05:40 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:05:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Crescent Wrench Colonies? Are you talking about the US or Canada? I've never heard anyone from any state call a wrench a spanner. Must be Canadian, eh? Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 09:48 31.01.96 UT, Matthew Loxton wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] >very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an >Islamic one?) From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 09:12:22 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:12:22 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: Enough! To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net At 12:42 PM 1/30/96 -0800, Sue Bernard wrote: >Michael, what I'm trying to figure out it why you ask Bob and Scotty all >these questions??? Wow, I had no idea such soap opers style goings on took place in the halls of Land Roverdom. As if the list wasn't exciting enough with all this other worthless banter. Once again, please remember what Land Rovers are about and stop wasting our time (and yours) with these silly squabbles. Nobody cares whether you have something to prove or whether you can prove it. Please if you must respond to this don't clutter the net, send it to me personally. Dave" Tastes like Spiced Ham" Bobeck '72 SerIII SWB "Green Car" Burleith LRC Washington DC From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 09:40:43 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:40:43 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Wenching, Wincing Colonies? Are you talking about the US or Canada? I've never heard anyone from any state call a wrench a spanner. Must be Canadian, eh? What's all this about wenches and Spaniards? I thought this was the Land Rover list. Ha Ha Dave From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 09:37:48 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:37:48 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Safari Door thing. Does anybody remeber seeing a piece in LROI about fittin a gas cylinder from a hatchback in place of the factory door stay on a Series Rear door? I remember seeing it but I don't remember what month it was and I think someone made off with it anyway. Any ideas how to easily do this? Dave "Going for Plush" From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Wed Jan 31 06:45:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:45:00 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: whitworth & SUs on Land Rovers > The only whit nut I know of on a landy are the bolts holding > the handbrake drum on. There may be more. You will also find them holding the steering swivel balls on the front axle housing. And of course if you have other cars you'll find them on SU carburators. I don't know if I mentioned it on this list..... The intake manifold for the TR3 lines up with the intake ports on the 2-1/4L petrol Land Rover engine. It should be possible to adapt the engine on right hand drive cars to dual SUs. I would guess better petrol milage and more power. The steering box is in the way on left hand drive cars, otherwise I would have tried it. TeriAnn From ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas) Wed Jan 31 09:45:17 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:45:17 -0400 From: ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas) Subject: HEATER I would like to fit a SIII with a Kodiak Heater- I would really appreciate any suggestions about: 1. Finding one (In NY-New england) and 2. How EXPENSIVE will it be? Thanks! AY From /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com Wed Jan 31 09:47:41 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:47:41 -0500 From: /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com Subject: Repair guide for Series IIa or III available? From DucNut@aol.com Wed Jan 31 09:55:31 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:55:31 -0500 From: DucNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Disco Accessories Hi Again Jeff - Glad to see that you found your way to the rover list from euro-moto. With repsect to the disco accessories, I agree that Rovers North & Atlantic Brit are good sources. I recently received some info from Safari Gard regarding their add on bumpers, roof racks, etc. They have a "rock slider" product that replaces the plastic door sill guard(?) on the disco. it doesn't provide a step, but apparently does provide substantial protection for that area. You can call them at 909.698.6114 & talk to Greg or Brandi. If you want copies of this info today, just let me know & I'll fax it to you. BTW, you might try Rovers West (Pat) at 602.748.8115 ttfn, Keith Armstrong 515.224.7640 voice 515.224.0305 fax From HalatGRM@aol.com Wed Jan 31 10:08:32 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:08:32 -0500 From: HalatGRM@aol.com Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system >With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a >part-time system due to the type of transfer case. Therefore, you would expect the new T**ot* 4R**n*r (with part time 4wd and locking _rear_ differential) to be more capable than a Disco in really slippery situations? (Say it isn't so!) Hal Hunnicutt '96 Discovery From Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Wed Jan 31 08:59:21 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:59:21 -0600 From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Subject: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system Hi all, I posted this message 1/27/96 but I believe many of us did not receive the full list. So I post here again (I would really hear the answer). Question was: I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 torque split)? I think they are. Then, what would be the superiority of LR products in terms of drivetrain? For example, do LRs still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need suspension travel)? Please excuse my ignorance. Happy Rovering! Insoo 95 Red 5spd Disco (Mistress) Salt Lake City, Utah, USA From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 11:06:57 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:06:57 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: HEATER To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net I would like to fit a SIII with a Kodiak Heater- I would really appreciate any suggestions about: 1. Finding one (In NY-New england) and 2. How EXPENSIVE will it be? I imagine theres afew laying about on parts cars here and there, but I'd suggest that the satndard Series III heater if operating properly is more than sufficient to heat the car. Unless you've got a 109, then I guesss try the Kodiak. You still have to deal with a 30 year old heater core though. Cheers Dave "Driving with the windows open" From "Hazell Paul" Wed Jan 31 16:07:35 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:07:35 +0000 From: "Hazell Paul" Subject: Midlands 4x4 jumble Did anyone try to go to the Midlands 4x4 jumble near Malvern at the weekend (Sunday)? I saw loads of RR, SIII, Discos etc milling about on the road around the area but it seems it was cancelled/postponed until March the 10th? :-( [can anyone confirm date]. But what I want to know is why?. There was a bit of snow about - nothing much (put it this way I went in a VW Golf, my LT/WT is in my garage in Cornwall - were in the middle of moving house) so I hope to God it wasn't "due to bad weather" - it would be a little ironic - can any one enlighten me? From 73363.427@compuserve.com 31 96 Jan EST 1911 Date: 31 Jan 96 11:36:12 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: Repair guide for Series IIa or III available? >>Greetings from Atlanta, GA...<< Ditto >> As a prospective D90 or Series IIa/III owner (this year, I keep telling myself) I'd like to know if a do-it-yourself repair guide exists? << There are quite a few good guides available. My personal favorites for series vehicles are the Haynes guide and the Land Rover shop manuals. The shop manual is quite extensive but generally very good at explaining things. It is better than most factory shop manuals that I have seen. The Haynes manual is less extensive but is written for the owner and not the mechanic. I mainly use the shop manual and if it gets to confusing then go to the Haynes manual for clarification. I have yet to see the D90 factory manuals, but it is probably similar to the Range Rover which is about 3" thick. The factory manuals prices vary from place to place, but normally run about $75-SerIII. $95-SerIIa. The haynes guide is around $25 I think. >>Many many years ago when I drove a late model VW Bug I had a manual called "The Idiot's Guide to VW Repair" (or something like that). It came in a spiral bound format and by the time I sold my bug it was soiled lovingly with oil and dirt. << You think *THAT* had oil and dirt, just you wait! :) ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 31-Jan-1996 From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Wed Jan 31 16:52:45 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:52:45 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth >Thanks for the help with crescent wrenches, I'll guess Mike was wrong >and it is an adjustable spanner. OK,I'll concede at least *part* of the "argument" (which isnt).In the wider context,obviously a crescent wrench is an adjustable spanner,*but*, I've just been talking to an air con engineer,who is the same age as myself, and,like me,he recognises the term crescent wrench as a "C" spanner,and also as a sort of "open ended ring spanner" particularly for use on pipe unions. So perhaps it depends on age and location,or something. Steve mentioned footprints.This is the English equivalent,in a way to the "Crescent" thing in the US.Footprint were originally the firm that made these things.I suspect they have been absorbed into the Stanley/Moore&Wright/ whoever conglomerate now since I havent seen a genuine pair for some years. BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo Chinese things break. Cheers Mike Rooth From Mr Ian Stuart Wed Jan 31 17:01:10 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:01:10 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system Quoting Insoo Bay, from 31 Jan 96 > I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time > 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it > does not need suspension travel)? Series landys are different to defenders/disco's/RR's (and other systems) A series vehicle is usually rear-wheel drive only. You may optionally lock the transfer box to split the power 50/50 (front/rear), but the axle diffs will still spin if one wheel loses grip. The newer vehicles have a limited-slip centre diff. This system will allow a limited difference to occur between the front and rear axles (both of which are driven at all times). Locking the centre diff just stops the slip happening at all (useful at slow speeds!) Locking diffs actually refer to axle diffs - locking the two sides of an axle together. With two locking diffs and the centre locked, all 4 wheels will turn at the same rate (which is really bad unless there is some give in the ground - think about the distance travelled by the 4 wheels as you turn a corner) Does this help? I didn't really understand the question, so I hope I've answered the right thing ;-) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scotissityness" From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 10:17:30 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:17:30 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: >>With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a >>part-time system due to the type of transfer case. >Therefore, you would expect the new T**ot* 4R**n*r (with part time 4wd and >locking _rear_ differential) to be more capable than a Disco in really >slippery situations? (Say it isn't so!) All things being equal (you can tell I majored in Economics!), the Toyota you describe will perform better off-road than the Land Rover. The Disco with the center diff locked is the same as any part-time 4x4 with the front axle engaged. The Toyota adds the added traction dimesion of a locking (or limited slip?) rear diff, BUT, you can't just consider torque distribution when you evaluate a vehicle's off-road capability. The Toyota is not match for the LR because of much greater axle articulation and superior approach, departure(especially) and breakover angles. The locking rear diff in the Toyota is fine, but only if one rear wheel is touching is it an advantage. If you have a vehicle that can keep both all four wheels in constant contact with the ground, the torque is much better distributed, and wheelspin substantially eliminated. Although a bit convoluted explanation...the LR still comes out ahead! Regards, Eric P.S. Put a locker in the rear of a Disco and it even gets better! From Hugo Madden Wed Jan 31 10:48:42 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:48:42 -0800 From: Hugo Madden Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system >I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 >wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need >suspension travel)? ...but of course if you're a Poupon-sucking Rangie owner, you have the added advantage of electronic traction control, which automatically applies braking to any wheel that's spinning, thereby transferring additional power to the wheel at the other end of the same axle. Supposedly, this is a better deal than a locking diff although why LR installed it on Rangies, which as we all know never go off-road, I do not know! _______ //_/_|__\___ \_ - ___ - _d (o) (o) From PurnellJE@aol.com Wed Jan 31 14:10:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:10:00 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update In a message dated 96-01-31 00:07:47 EST, you write: > 1. Passenger Seat Rattling due to cracked seat runner. Replaced >with MXC5778 (new subframe). [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >due to the wear and tear it took until then. Now it works like a charm. >Gee now I can use two fingers :) Thanks for posting this info Pat. Good to know I am not alone in these exact problems....oh the joys of mass production. JOhn. RoverRattler From William Owen Wed Jan 31 13:10:45 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:10:45 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply >I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time > 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism .... > still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain >(assume it does not need suspension travel)? I think what you are asking is whether there is a difference between a Disco/D90/older RR with locked center diff and a vehicle with part time four wheel drive. I don't think there is a difference as to the drive. A older jeep cherokee, for example, with part time only 4x4 locks the center diff when the 4x4 is engaged. This is why it is part time and should not be driven on dry pavement with 4x4 engaged. Full time 4x4 is advantagous in some situtations where dry pavement is mixed in with snow and ice. Part time and/or locked center diff is better for all out traction. As to whether LR has better traction in snow, there are many factors involved. Locking center diff is very good and limited slip or locking axle diffs would add more traction. Tires are crucial also. The Driver may be the most important factor. (While driving a Cherokee, I have passed in ditches and helped out many other 4x4's which were, technically, superior or equal to mine.) I can't prove to you that a LR is better in snow than other 4x4's with part time four wheel drive (perhaps someone else on the lists can) but there are many antidotal accounts which seems to indicate they are. However, I feel their biggest advantage in general is the stregnth of their components and their suspension. From JFisk1120@aol.com Wed Jan 31 14:47:01 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:47:01 -0500 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: Advice please..... In a couple of weeks, I will be heading to Phoenix with the girls for some sun and fun. I have a listing of "Jeep Tours" in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. We would like to take a "western desert adverture, etc" tour. Does anyone in that area know any of these companies that are listed and if so, do any of them have Land Rovers? God forbid if I should have to ride in a Jeep!!! I would appreciate any advise on this. Please email me direct because I am having problems downloading attached files therefore I have been unable to read the digest until AOL clears my path. Thank you again, Jan Fisk JFisk1120@aol.com (-30 degree wind chill here and counting the days until 70 degree weather!!!) Companies I have found listed in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area: Absolutely Arizona! Adventure Tours An Arizona Adventure Arizona Awareness Desert Jeep Tours Arizona Bound Tours, Inc. Arizona Desert Mountain Jeep Tours Arizona Unique Buggy Adventures, Inc. Arrowhead Desert Jeep Tours Bronco Billy's Arizona Adventures Diamondback Adventures Trailblazer Tours Wild West Tours, Inc. From Dixon Kenner Wed Jan 31 14:55:31 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:55:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Mike Rooth wrote: > BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably > *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more > you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo You mean a pipe wrench... :-) Very useful, especially on unco-operative crank bolts/starter dogs. From "Ron Franklin" Wed Jan 31 15:08:21 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:08:21 -4 From: "Ron Franklin" Subject: Sleeper top Does anyone know of a fellow named Doug Richardson, or are you on the list Doug? I have an article from the 70's describing his Land Rover and it was fitted with something called a SLEEPER TOP which opened Dormobile fashion but used an adapter frame he had designed. The Land Rover 109 diesel was pretty impressive looking and also incorporated his own designs for a bumper which contained 5 1/2 gal of oil and a camping rig which could be installed in 15 min by sliding it in the back. It would be interesting to know what became of the designs, the Rover, and Doug, as he planned to market these things. He lived in Malibu, California at the time, and had taken Land Rovers to Moscow, the Sahara, and Central America, according to the article. (Petersen's Complete Book of Four-Wheel Drive--The Ultimate Land Rover.) Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Jan 31 15:25:54 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:25:54 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Advice please..... Hey Jan....I'd love to go to Arizona with some girls too..Heck....i'd even bring Talbot and Richer along for the ride....(its cold here too)....Rgds Steve From "Matthew Loxton" Wed Jan 31 20:21:30 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 20:21:30 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Crescent wrench John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear.. Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is the thing referred to as "crescent wrench". The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin). The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just "wrench". SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an Islamic one?) From Sanjay Prasad Wed Jan 31 15:22:13 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:22:13 -0500 From: Sanjay Prasad Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply With respect to the advantages of full-time versus part-time 4wd, I was driving on I-89 South from Stowe, Vermont to Boston a few Sundays ago in my '90 Range Rover during a light snow storm which had put just enough snow on the road to make it slippery. The snowfall was patchy so the road at some points was clear, at other points had patches of light packed down snow, and at other points was partly clear and partly snowy/icy. We went by one Ford Explorer in the ditch, and saw, at different times, a Jeep Wagoneer and a Jeep Grand Cherokee spin out, but, luckily, not hit anything. During the entire 3 1/2 hour drive, I didn't notice any slip on the RR. I assume that the road conditions weren't slippery enough for the part-time vehicles to use 4wd. I also wonder if the type of tires those vehicles were using had much to do with slipping. I've noticed that alot of the newer SUVs have street tires. Also, does anyone know about how much effect the RR's relatively thin tires have with traction on the snow? Sanjay Prasad '90 Range Rover Boston, Massachusetts From HalatGRM@aol.com Wed Jan 31 15:39:41 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:39:41 -0500 From: HalatGRM@aol.com Subject: Discovery Maintenance My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book. I'd rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.) Can anyone shed any light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc? While I have the floor, is anyone putting together a Disco faq? Hal Hunnicutt '96 Discovery From Kevan Shaw Wed Jan 31 19:49:41 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:49:41 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Singapore Land Rovers I have just returned from a week in Singapore (working, not holiday!) and, as I have been trying to persuade my friends there to buy a Landie went to have a look at one. It was a series 2A diesel SWBof unknown vintage but probably pre '65, it went ok but took ages to start, was smoking, blowing fumes from the oil filler and all the pedals were at the limits of their travel. I looked very good having been nicely painted in maroon with lots of bits of chequer plate in the load bay footwells etc and had a cut down tilt providing a roof (all that is really required in that climate! asking price? Sing. Dollars 20,000 that is about uk=A3 9000.! they have a brutal ca= r tax system involving a thing called COE ( Certificate of Enitilement) which accounts for a fair whack of the price, I have been told that this price is about the cheapest you can get any moving vehicle for but still!! There was also a series 3 diesel SWB which had spent most of its life towing things, it had a Salisbury axle a double front bumper and showed signs of several colours of green under its present off white paint so I suspect is ex military but this does not show on the record. It also has no heater or even provision for same, no hole in the wing and a horizontal air filter where the heater core and fan should be. Also there was a battery shaped drop in the cubby under the passenger seat and an extra cubby under the centre seat, anyone any idea about origins of this one? I suggested my friend went back to see this one when it was fixed up as the series 2 looked to me like a money pit! regards Kevan Shaw I tried sending this last week but I don';t think it ever appeared, let me know if this is a duplicate posting folks! From "Tom Rowe" Wed Jan 31 15:11:06 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:11:06 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth > these things.I suspect they have been absorbed into the Stanley/Moore&Wright/ whoever conglomerate now since I havent seen a genuine pair for some years.> Mike, Crescent is still going strong. As a matter of fact I just bought another Crescent adjustable wrench. They also came out a few years ago with a {(Vice-grip) uh-oh, another explanation needed} that's better than Vice-grips. > BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo Chinese things break.> When I was a pipefitter I never bought anything but Rigid brand pipe wrenches. They also make them in Aluminum (to match Land Rovers, I had to relate it somehow) that are just as strong as the all steel variety. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From LTC Larry Smith Wed Jan 31 15:47:14 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 15:47:14 EST (2047Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth Mike, What you call a "crescent" wrench is what we call a flare nut wrench. Looks like a ring spanner with a small space cut out to allow slippage over tubing, etc. The American venacular has added "Crescent" wrench, adjustable jaw spanner, because of the trade name. Much like "kleenex" is generic for facial tissue and "xerox" for all copies. 'til later, Larry From 73363.427@compuserve.com 31 96 Jan EST 1915 Date: 31 Jan 96 15:27:28 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Rep Disclaimer: I live in the south so know little about ice and snow driving. I would think that one of the benefits of having full time FWD versus the part time, is that in icy conditions you have the benefit of a center diff while in FWD. This way *each* wheel can turn at whatever speed it wants. If there is no center diff then there will be some rotational differences between the front and rear axles. This must be made up by tire slip and to a limited amount drivetrain slop. I would think that this slip, while quite small, could lead to loss of traction and control. I would lock the center diff only when I thought the probability of a tire losing traction was high. But hey, what do I know. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 31-Jan-1996 From "Andrew A. Dallas" Wed Jan 31 16:28:17 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:28:17 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: D90 Problems I'm about to bring my D90 in for its 15,000 mile service and hopefully get a "few" defects taken care of. I've read about several of these problems showing up in other D90s and was wondering how many of these problems are common in other D90s. The list of problems is frustratingly long but I do expect Land Rover Metro West to take care of them all under warrantee. LRMW has been great in the past. If you've had any of these problems taken care of under warrantee or had any problem getting your repairs covered under warrantee, I'd like to hear about them. I might expect to have a few of these problems in a car that was five years old or more but this vehicle is a '95. Here's the list: Driver Seat - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out. - Sticky Seat adjustments. Both the recline and forward/backward movement is very stiff. Rear Taillights - Water in lenses. - Running lights don't function (probably caused by the water) Rear Door - Rusty top hinge bolt - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and down) Fuse Box - Fuse holder not installed Rollbar - Padding is cracking Front Headlight Fixture - the right side panel is held on with screws which are rusting. The left is fine. Heater Blower - switch is VERY stiff Hood Release - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the none too distant future. Passenger Window (Hard Top) - Much more wind noise than the driver's side. Driver Window (Hard Top) - The front pane must be opened befor the rear pane can be opened. -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From Dixon Kenner Wed Jan 31 16:39:18 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:39:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: > While I have the floor, is anyone putting together a Disco faq? Not formally... I have a large text file here called "disco", as well as a second called "rangerover". I and Ben Smith maintain the Land Rover FAQ at http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/ Rgds, Dixon From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Wed Jan 31 17:06:11 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:06:11 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Series: Oil drain spanner I just learned this last night while draining/dropping the rear diff to remove the sheared spline from a broken rear halfshaft. It seems that the handle of one of the wrenches that came with the original Land-Rover toolkit is perfectly sized to remove these plugs. Use a "crescent" adjustable wrench on the handle for a little extra leverage if necessary. Of course, *I* don't have the original Land-Rover toolkit, though I'm now in the market for one. (Anyone have an extra? EMAIL me.) Fortunately, I have a friend who does. Thanks Doug (Main) for loaning me your spanner, as well as technical know-how and labor in getting my Rover back on the road. As for that screwdriver (mis)used as a punch to drive that torsional distorted spline piece from the diff: no worries. "IT BECAME DAMAGED UNDER *NORMAL* USE!" (I just love saying that to the guys in Sears' tool department) RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Jan 31 14:35:47 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:35:47 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Discovery Maintenance I've had my Disco in to the dealer for all scheduled maintenance as well as off-interval oil changes and they NEVER stamp that little book. But I always keep the receipts (it seems like a lot of the info is in some computer somewhere) I think the key is to keep dated receipts and to note the milage if you (or Jiffy-Lube) does the service. ---------- From lopezba@atnet.at Wed Jan 31 23:24:02 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:24:02 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Thanks to Bill Caloccia I am sure everybody will join me in thanking Bill for the tremendous job he did in maintaining the LRO lists thru thick and thin. I sincerely hope that this is not the end! Peter Kutschera and I will try and talk an Austrian provider into giving LRO a temporary roof over the head, or at least a lean-to, but this will take some time and we are not sure the rather small operation can provide the necessary access for so many people. We will keep in touch with Bill for technical advice. Please, everybody out there with better posibbilities, do your best to keep this going - leaf springs and squeaky steering columns, unite for once! Once more - many, many thanks, Bill, and hope we manage to resurrect the lists together! Good rovering Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W Vienna, Austria From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 14:43:02 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:43:02 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: >My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled >maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book. I'd >rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.) Can anyone shed any >light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc? I believe there is a law in the US (may vary from state to state) which prohibits the arm twisting that you're getting from your dealer. In other words, the mfg. must honor the warranty even if scheduled maintenance is done at another facility. This applies unless the scheduled maintenence is done free of charge (as in some "all-inclusive" leases). I was made aware of this law (at least in NY) while working in a garage in high school, the independent folks love this because they can get the business that the dealer would otherwise command. I'm sure that any independent service (ha!) station or JiffyLube place will give you the low down on the laws in your area. As far as resale is concerned, there is something to be said for presenting a prospective buyer with a ream of service reciepts from new. This really would only be applicable, though, if you're going to sell the vehicle privately, on a trade-in they just look at the blue book. I don't really know if the extra cost incurred today to go to the dealer for service will be realized when you go to sell your Disco. If you consider the time value of money, it is definitely not a good proposition. A dollar today (service cost savings) is worth more than a dollar several years hence (increased resale value). As always, this is all my humble opinion. Regards, Eric Wow! My education actually came in handy for once ;) From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 14:43:22 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:43:22 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Full Time 4x4 With everyone wondering about the merits of full time 4x4 on the road, I thought I'd share some of my experiences with my Stage 1 (full time 4x4). Around here, many of the back roads are dirt and loose gravel in the summer and muddy or snow-packed in the winter. I drive quite fast on these roads, where the advantages of full time 4x4 are obvious. The most noticeable attribute (over the Ford Explorer and Toyota 4Runner I drive from time to time) is the neutral steering when accelerating through a turn. Both the Explorer and the Toyota need great care to keep the back end from breaking free. The Rover just rides through as on rails. In addition, when the roads are really slick, the full time 4x4 allows for deceleration with downshifting. This way, all four wheels are taking the force more or less equally. This, as opposed to braking, where the front wheels lock up prematurely or downshifting in 2wd where the rears lock up. Granted, some of these attributes can be had on a part time vehicle in 4wd but the flexibility to have this at all times is great. The highway is when this shines: most of the spin outs you see on the highway are from one of three things, either the driver plowed on the brakes (locking the front first), the driver lifted off the gas to quick (breaking traction in the rear), or the driver punched the accelerator to much (again breaking traction in the rear). The full time 4x4 reduces the possibility of two of these situations. Because the power or engine braking is distributed equally over four wheels, instead of two, the chances of breaking traction (skidding) is reduced. It still takes smooth driving to negotiate snow-packed roads but the full time 4x4 is definitely an asset...IMHO, of course. Regards, Eric BTW, the plow guys around here have a name for the most dangerous thing on the road during the winter: a Jeep Grand Cherokee with New Jersey plates :) From William Terry Wed Jan 31 18:11:02 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:11:02 -0500 (EST) From: William Terry Subject: Re. Bill's message Would someone please post Bill's msg regarding the list again. It must have been in one of the digests I deleted when I fell behind reading them. ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton From "Lee Zeltzer" Wed Jan 31 16:04:11 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:04:11 -0700 From: "Lee Zeltzer" Subject: Re: D90 Problems Andrew A. Dallas wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I'm about to bring my D90 in for its 15,000 mile service and hopefully [ truncated by lro-digester (was 65 lines)] > adallas@tiac.net > http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ > ************************************************* I have not seen any of those problems on my D90SW, but I have a speaker grill fall off and my muffler disconnect from the exhaust pipe. Guess I'm lucky! -- Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant Innovative System Design 100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605 Tucson AZ 85701 (520)791-3323 X 21 http://www.isdnet.com From Ray Harder Wed Jan 31 17:50:52 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:50:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Matt Turner's Moab Rally - May 1996 i got the following in the mail and called in my intent to attend. matt said the more the better (probably a limit to that, but he didn't say that). he said he is most concerned about an accurate dinner count, so, of course, RSVP. i volunteered to post to the net and he said "good idea"... if you haven't been to moab, you should consider. the rock crawling can't get better than that... ray harder (siia 88 (lulu), aka experimental) moab 1992, 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------- -- exact wording of notice -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Land Rover Rally Moab, UT May, 1996 Please join Tanner's Land Rovers in Moab, Utah for their first annual rally. On May 1, 1996 through May 4, 1996, we will be holding our first annual rally in Moab. This will be four days of family fun that will include: great off-roading, a rally, car show/swap meet, raffle, and a barbeque. This should be a great time and we look forward to seeing you there! A tentative schedule of events are as follows: Wednesday, May 1, 1996: Registration, scenic off road trip, or challenging/technical off road trip. Thursday, May 2, 1996: More off roading Friday, May 3, 1996: Rally Saturday, May 4, 1996: Car show/swap meet Barbeque/Raffle some items to be raffled: complete set of Bilstein shocks, free wheel hubs, Land Rover toys, and anything else that you might want to bring! For additional information or questions, contact Matt Tanner at 970-247-0703, or Mike Weaver at 970-884-0484. RSVP requested. Tentative barbeque price: $11.00/person. From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Tue Jan 31 18:54:17 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 18:54:17 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News I have just returned from a lovelt trip to Florida. Saw lots of Disco's and Range Rovers. Only one D90 stopped Number 2059 a black one in the Gardens mall in west palm beach. Hopped over to Freeport in the Bahamas, no Land Rovers in sight. 'Was in a Toys R Us in West Palm and found a leego cobination pack # 1720 for $9.99 that includes a 90 type vehicle. Also got a couple of Range Roves aswell TTFN Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Jan 31 19:52:20 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:52:20 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Goodbyes? "Good bye. And thanks for all the fish." See y'all on the other side. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Bill Skidmore" 31 1996 Jan -0500 1920 Date: 31 Jan 1996 20:36:22 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? Well, John has it partly right. Skidmore's guide to all you ever wanted to know about common wrenches and = their misues says: Crescent wrench is an adjustable wrench, with smooth jaws, that uses a = worm gear to adjust the jaw depth. The jaw opening is usually between = 0-45 degrees off center with the handle. Spanner was used on those fittings, usually electrical, as in alternator, = etc, which had ribs (splines) spaced at approximately the same interval = as the corner on a hex nut. We used to use them often for the electrical = connections on military vehicles (kinda the justification to buy = specialized tools that will only work on one model of vehicle, the same = as most new cars). Pipe Wrench and Monkey Wrench are very similar, in that they also use a = worm gear to adjust the jaw width, but the jaws are perpendicular to the = centerline of the handle. The difference is the the Monkey Wrench uses = toothed jaws, and the monkey wrench uses smooth jaws. Pipe wrench used = most often on hex-sided pipe fittings. Monkey wrench used on pipes (it = grips the pipe because of the teeth). In many cases a monkey wrencg can = be interchanges with a good pair of channel lock pliars. Just depends on = how much torque needs to be applied. Boy, talk about anally retentive - I have to get a life quick! Bill ------ From: Owner-LRO@uk.stratus.com, Wed, Jan 31, 1996 ------ From jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess) Wed Jan 31 17:56:59 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:56:59 -0800 From: jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess) Subject: bombing for info Howdy, It's me bombing everyone for some info. Who had all the cool underbody protection put on his d90? I read all the email but deleted it as it just didn't apply to my dormobile. Now I'm thinking that the right photos and text would be an awesome article for the AW. Could I have the correct person email me? TIA, jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Jan 31 17:33:18 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:33:18 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply I'd say that the LR (Disco/RR) has some advantages that the Limited Slip 4-Runner doesn't. Better tires (for snow & ice) depending and better (and more) weight distribution. So "better or worse" is hard to tell because it depends on the conditions. Not the least of which is the driver as other's have pointed out. I was on a "snow run" and the Disco's outperformed (less wheel spin and more efficient progress) the pickups & 4-runners with and without lockers. I think in that case the tires and weight distribution (i.e. light rear-end in pickups) had a lot to do with it. Of course a Disco with a lockers would be tops! But as always, YMMV. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Jan 31 22:23:35 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:23:35 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Take a dip...in molten zinc ! To all interested in hot dips... here it is again: Baltimore Galvanizing (who thought THAT name up? ) 7110 Quad AV Baltimore, MD 410-288-1188 Bill Adams 3Dmentia computer animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington, MD 20895 301-949-9475 '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel ...all there From stretch@vol.net Thu Feb 1 12:36:49 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 12:36:49 PST From: stretch@vol.net Subject: member list Sorry for 11th hour plea, but could someone forward the members list to me...I've been having trouble...I'm sure it's me. Any assist appreciated. Bye everyone...I'll watch for new info. Thanks to all who have helped out with info, etc. ------------------------------------- Name: jcollins E-mail: stretch@vol.net Temp assgn: Hong Kong From "John Y. Liu" Wed Jan 31 22:57:37 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:57:37 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Series: Advice On Painting Frame? I've decided to paint the axles and frame of my 109. I painted the swivel housings during the recent front end rebuild and now the axles look crummy by comparison. After I paint them the frame will look needful. And so on. I was planning as follows: Crawl under truck; Use wire brush and scraper to remove all dirt, crud, scale, etc; Degrease liberally; Repeat until satisfied; Clean out From Mark Perry Thu Feb 1 02:15:32 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:15:32 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: Snow Rovers It was -40C when I left work at 1230 a.m. here in Winterpeg. Even with block and battery pre-heaters, the thing took a bit of choke and throttle to get running, cranking with clutch out. Once going, it was, as the saying is, as slow as molasses (or 80W90 Hypoy C) in January. (Castrol 10W40 in the engine, BTW) Our more snowbound eastern LROs might be interested in the photo ad in the current Old Car Trader. It reads: BRITISH LAND ROVER - Will run. Complete with snow plow. $995. 705-497-6189 North Bay In the photo is what appears to be a SerII or 'early' IIA 88" with pickup truck cab, indeed with a big plow blade on front and plow lights on the cab. Beside it in the photo is a 'late' IIA 88" SW, with tropical roof and luggage rack. Hard to tell more from the pix, but they both look pretty straight. Who knows? BTW, North Bay is about 250 km/180 mi, or so, due north of Toronto, Ont., for those wondering. Cheers, Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Thu Feb 1 01:53:10 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:53:10 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Repair guide for Series IIa or III available? Curtis asks.. >As a prospective D90 or Series IIa/III owner (this year, I >keep telling myself) I'd like to know if a do-it-yourself >repair guide exists? There is a Haynes manual available for the Ser II,IIA and III. You may also be able to get the "factory" manuals, but they are a bit pricey. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue #:-}> From Mark Perry Thu Feb 1 05:05:15 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:05:15 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: folklore, towing, lists (fwd) Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Feb 1 11:48:35 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:48:35 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Its That Man Again! Which header will be *totally* lost on all but the most ancient,and in the UK at that.Oh Well..... The man in question is once more Mr Grafton,who has favoured yours truly with more correspondence. Dated 19/1/96,the latest Aerogram states that they have finally got both Land Rovers out of hock(ie out of their respective shipping containers in Mombasa) at a cost of UK 350 quid *each*.Andy remarks "ouch" which I thought fairly restrained under the circumstances.The group have sold much equipment,such as all their power tools,generator,etc and therefore have enough money to continue the trip,albeit for a short(ish) distance. During the passage through Kenya they were *given* a gearbox complete, including bellhousing,by a bloke that just happened to have it lying about. It is,apparently,strapped to the snow plough mounting,and recieves envious glances from other overlanders,and serves to dampen the front suspension. The 'box serial no is 361355990,stamped BL all over it,and Andy doesnt think its a UK box.Anyone know? New route plan is:Kyela(top of Malawi),length of Malawi,,through Tete corridor through Mozambique,into Zimbabwe,then tro' Bethbridge(sp?,writing not clear) into SA.And on to Capetown.Those in these parts of the world look out for two 109's one with leading gearbox,reg no LHW 283Y. No vehicular problems have been encountered thus far,except for the inability of a S111 headlamp switch to survive intact and funtional for longer than 3 hours.However,the group bought Lucas fuel filters in Kenya,and as it is put, they anticipate that this may be the kiss of death. He reports that driving speeds of the locals are horrendous,a 109" passed them at about 50mph on a road they considered suitable for about 15-20mph. There are apparently lots and lots of"*totally* shagged" Stage 1's about. "Have V8 and lead foot"seems to be the attitude. He ends with the comment"Tell Charlie W that if he ever gets to Africa,his tyres will be worth nearly as much as his Land Rover".I hope that means something to someone,as it means bugger all to me,but I pass it on..... Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Feb 1 12:20:35 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:20:35 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: folklore, towing, lists (fwd) >The aircraft maker built the CL215 flying boat water bomber, which has >been sold to many countries, including Spain. In 1977, one of the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >guesses on the weight of the flying boat fuselage, but the whole plane >weighs 28,353# empty. Just goes to show.The rule of towing with a Land Rover is"Hook it up.If it wont move,its too heavy." Another example:Friend of mine was *pushing* an eight ton traction engine with his Defender 110 Tdi.Uphill.He thought that the engine was getting a little close to his bonnet.The push pole had bent.Defender was OK,though.He later said that he had pulled an eighteen tonner out of its shed with an 88" petrol. I beleive him.He would. Those flying baots are almost as tough.There is a photo in a book on water bombers of one which landed in a field.Wheels up.Ploughed a bit of a furrow,but was otherwise undamaged.Nice aircraft. Cheers Mike Rooth From Andy Dingley Thu Feb 01 12:16:43 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 12:16:43 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Re: Collywobbles On Sunday, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote: > > My S-III would develop a serious steering wobble, > > I did a field change on the steering damper, > Park you Series III & find out what the real cause of your wobble > is! Your car did not come with a steering dampener and > should not need one to keep from wobbling . Leaf sprung Landies certainly do have a steering damper. The steering relay unit (the thing that "turns the corner" in the two steering links) contains an internal friction damper. If you keep the oil level in this thing topped up, it should last for ever. Of course, no-one ever does, so it tends to wear out. Wear is usually due to water ingress causing rust in the lower shaft bearing surface. Major machining and a rebuild kit (new bronze thrust washers) will fix this, but it's easier and cheaper to get a brand new unit (Craddocks have a shedful of ex-military spares, all beautifully wax wrapped and quite cheap) Getting the thing out is either easy or impossible, depending on the amount of chassis rust. It's a tight push fit into a tube that goes through the chassis rail. 28lb sledge hammers are a favoured tool, but I've also heard of people putting a jack underneath and lifting the whole vehicle with it. Once it's out, follow the service manual to see how to dismantle it. It's a simple job involving a soft mallet and a sock ! (complete with pictures in the manual). You wrap the unit in the sock, drive the shaft out through one end and catch all the enclosed flying springs in your sock. Putting it back together is impossible unless you have too many fingers for any reasonable human being. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk If all it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with typewriters, how come AOL haven't written any Shakespeare yet ? From "barnett childress" Thu Feb 1 7:50:04 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 7:50:04 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:RE: Discovery Maintenance I have always done my own oil and filter changes. My dealer LRMW has done the 7.5K and 15K service. They stamp the book and discount the cost of the oil, filter, and labor. Barnett Childress 95 D90 From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Feb 01 07:55:17 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 07:55:17 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Re: Frame Painting Assuming you're priming the spots that go down to bare metal, use an aerosol so that the primer coat isn't too thick. Rustoleum damp-proof red or yellow zinc chromate should be fine. Would suggest Red Devil black polyurethane, available in quarts for the topcoat. I used it on some exposed exterior steel on the house that was scraped down 7 years ago, and it's still hanging tough. Take this opportunity and be sure to put *2* coats of black paint on! It's easier than doing the 2nd coat later and having to re-prep. After paint is all hard, you might wanna spray some undercoating (from any auto DIY shop) if you are going for protection, or not if you're going for looks. Wear a disposable dust mask when spraying under the vehicle. Regards, Hank (Ser II 109) From "barnett childress" Thu Feb 1 7:59:25 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 7:59:25 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Snow Rovers Hi all, Wow it was cold this morning in Sturbridge Ma. For the first time I heard some strange noises when I fired up the Defender, and the oil light actually stayed on for a few seconds! Thank god for synthetics! Barnett Childress From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Thu Feb 1 05:10:22 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:10:22 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: '84 109 V8 brakes Does anyone know the differences in brake systems between a 2-1/4 L 109 and a series III 109 V8??? I know that the later model uses a dual power brake system, but I don't know what changes may have been made at the wheels. Anyone know?? TeriAnn twakeman@eworld.com From Easton Trevor Thu Feb 01 08:16:00 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 08:16:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: The colonies and translation of terms To continue the Crescent wrench/adjustable spanner thread. Footprints (UK) are the equivalent of Channellocks (NA) A wrench (UK) is a device that grips the item being turned by mechanical advantage eg Mole (UK) wrench or Vice Grips (UK), Pipe wrench (US) or Stilsons (UK) A spanner (UK) is a device that fits by "Spanning" the item being turned and fitting it precisely. North America with the usual econimy of terms employ the word Wrench for any turning device. Many times the specific manufacturers name becomes the generic identifier, as we drink from our Thermos, clean up with the Hoover (Dirt or Spies) or adjust our nuts with a Crescent. Trevor Easton From crash@merl.com Thu Feb 1 08:55:05 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:55:05 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Monkey vs. Pipe wrenches No, a monkey wrench has smooth jaws, and a pipe wrench has toothed jaws. How do I know this? Well, for one thing, I have a genuine "Monkey" wrench, circa 1912, in my antique tools bin. It even has a little monkey stamped right into it. It's not a very convenient wrench but it sure makes a good hammer. Second, a pipe wrench is used to grip _pipe_. Not hex fittings, unless you want to chew the fittings all up with the sharp pipe-wrench teeth. The pipe wrench has the sharp teeth to grip and turn threaded (but round) pieces of pipe. Smooth-jawed wrenches can't grip a pipe to turn it. (let's ignore strap wrenches for now, OK?) Oh, and the aluminium RIDGID brand pipe wrenches go great with Land Rovers. "Gauranteed forever" -Bill From u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Thu Feb 1 14:19:24 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:19:24 GMT From: u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Subject: Series III overheating. I am the proud owner of a SIII 88" petrol (php414m). Though I have a problem she overheats, badly. I have tried all the usual flaws, the thermostat works, water circulates there is no leak, and the radiator seems to be extremely hot. I bought a new temperature sensor for the engine, does this have to be calibrated? I blew a head gasket not too long ago, so I know it is overheating but there is no apparant cause. On another note for all Lr owners in southern Uk (Surrey/Hampshire/Berkshire) steer clear of a company called Kingsley Cross Country (formerly Rapid Rovers) they may cause you more problems than you started with. They have tried to pass a second hand part off as new, to me they have also supplied me with a 15Lb per square " radiator cap for a 2.2 4cy SIII (rather than the necessary cap which is nearly a third of the pressure that they supplied to me. They supplied me with one for a V8. They run a so called "Garage" and they can't tell the difference between a 4cy and a V8. I could have blown my cooling system at that pressure. When I tried to complain politely, they couldn't have been more unplesent if they had tried. Conclusion: Steer well Clear! From Ray Harder Thu Feb 1 08:27:39 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:27:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: Series: Advice On Painting Frame? On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, John Y. Liu wrote: < ...snip... After I paint them the frame will look needful. And so on. < I was planning as follows: Crawl under truck; Use wire brush and scraper to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > Since my frame is unrusted and I live in dry L.A., is it important to treat < the inside of the box sections? If yes, how would I do it? john, i did this a couple of years ago. i felt it is a good use of my time. i scraped some with a putty knife and wire brush, then went down to the car wash with about $10 in quarters. i went late at night and took a jack and jack stands. wore old clothes. jacked up the rover and put it onto jackstands. took off the front wheels, and later the back wheels. i crawled under there and spent all my money removing oilcrud. when i finished, i was all wet, but the rover was clean as a whistle. i used a small artist brush -- long handle, about 1/2 inches of bristle and took my time. and yes, i used rustoleum satin enamel. it looks good when i look under there and it protects the outside. i have good intentions of doing a waxoyl job on the inside, but to date (thats 3 years), i haven't managed to get started on it. imho, the outside is important for appearance and some rusting appears there, but most of the rusting is on the inside. in la, probably not a problem. ccray and lulu (siia 88 -- she is oily again, but thats oil over paint) From "John C. White, III" Thu Feb 1 06:37:31 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:37:31 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance Reread the manual that the dealer stamps, Hal. There are a lot of things that the dealer does at various intervals that if not performed do void the warranty. Some of them require tools and equipment that most ordinary mortals don't have at their disposal. I change the oil in my Discovery more often than the manual says, but as long as its under warranty, I'll pay the price and let the dealer do it. If you're planning on selling your truck, you will probably be able to command a higher price if you have all of your receipts showing that the factory's maintenance schedule was followed. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 15:39 31.01.96 -0500, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] >Hal Hunnicutt >'96 Discovery From "John C. White, III" Thu Feb 1 06:37:44 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:37:44 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: Discovery Maintenance I always check to see if the dealer stamped the book or not. If he didn't, I ask him to, but I'm compulsive that way. Oh yes, and I do keep all the receipts, including the off-schedule oil changes. Cheers! John At 14:35 31.01.96 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >I've had my Disco in to the dealer for all scheduled maintenance as well as [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)] > [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery > \_/ \_/ N7UMU From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 1 09:38:21 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Snow Comes, No-Claims Bonus goes On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, LUCKING Richard wrote: > > Erm, isn't that illegal. Surely it's the same effect as having > > no insurance. Trivia: Today, 98 years ago, the first automobile insurance policy was sold to a doctor in Buffalo, New York. The premium was $11 per year. [source: CBC radio] From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 96 Feb EST 1909 Date: 1 Feb 96 9:27:32 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Wierd wrench for O/D shaft? In the documentation I have for my Fairey O/D, it calls for the torque on the mainshaft nut to be at 100 lb/ft. This is not a problem... I have a 3-foot pipe.....8*) However, whatthehell kind of a socket is necessary for that whacko nut, and is it available in the Real World (tm)? Or. more to the point, which Rover god do I have to throw money at THIS time?.....8*) aj"I hate whacko tools"r From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 96 Feb EST 1909 Date: 1 Feb 96 9:57:47 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Series III overheating. One conclusion and one alone: Box it up and ship it to me in the States.....that'll fix it. Seriously, the two things I'd look at there is timing and mixture. if she's running very lean this could cause overheating. Do the mixture adjustments on the carburettor. Timing could be out, as well, causing the same symptoms. Too far advanced can do this, as the fuel fires too early in the cycle, producing back-pressure and loads of waste heat that's got to go somewhere. Make sure you're not over-advanced....try resetting to about 3BTDC or even TDC - if it doesn't over heat at those settings then you can start advancing till it runs right. When you put in the head gasket did you check the head for warpage? Alan From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Feb 1 10:37:11 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:37:11 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Tours in AZ You wrote "In a couple of weeks, I will be heading to Phoenix with the girls for some sun and fun. I have a listing of "Jeep Tours" in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. We would like to take a "western desert adverture, etc" tour. Does anyone in that area know any of these companies that are listed and if so, do any of them have Land Rovers? God forbid if I should have to ride in a Jeep!!!" Most of the jeeps are sufficient... I don't think they cover anything other than the smooth dirt roads. There was a rumor that Enterprise had purchased some Discovery's for rental but you have to bring your own latte..... I would give Enterprise a call and check on a day rental. It would probably be cheaper than a rental for 3 ro 4 people too. Gerry Phoenix w/ RAIN today!!!! From "Tom Rowe" Thu Feb 1 09:59:54 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:59:54 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Wierd wrench for O/D shaft? Alan asks: > In the documentation I have for my Fairey O/D, it calls for the torque on the mainshaft nut to be at 100 lb/ft. This is not a problem... I have a 3-foot pipe.....8*)> Come on Alan, 100lb/ft isn't that much. A good torque Crescent, uh, I mean wrench, will do it without the 3' pipe. < However, whatthehell kind of a socket is necessary for that whacko nut, and is it available in the Real World (tm)?> I've never seen the socket to fit it other than in the special tools list. However, I recall some oddball sockets in the Snap-On catalog that looked as if they might work. Personally I used (shhhh, this is a secret, don't tell a soul) a punch and hammer. Ouch! That was hard to say. < Or. more to the point, which Rover god do I have to throw money at THIS time?.....8*)> The special tools god, I think. If you find one, let me know. I'd like to get one too. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Thu Feb 1 15:55:35 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:55:35 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Re: Its That Man Again! >Tell Charlie W that if he ever gets to Africa,his >tyres will be worth nearly as much as his Land Rover".I hope that means >something to someone,as it means bugger all to me,but I pass it on..... In 1988 I went out to Kenya to follow the Safari Rally. I hired a Suzuki SJ1000 (All the Land Rovers had been snaffled by the world press). The tyres on this thing derived any grip they had from the fabric surface! I asked politely if they would't mind replacing them with the rubber tread variety, as I had some serious mountain climbing to do. The best they could find did have some rubber but precious little tread, and they just had to do. The locals are to be admired for their ability to undertake driving in some pretty bad conditions without the benefit of the latest technology from Goodrich, Goodyear et al. I guess this would make a snazzy set of all terrain boots worth a lot. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From Gene Sparks Thu Feb 1 08:11:37 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:11:37 -0800 From: Gene Sparks Subject: Baja Trip Anybody out there Interested in taking a trip down to Baja this summer? = I would very much like to go but will not go alone. My schedule is open = and would like to make the trip 6-9 days long. Still plenty of time to = organize. Ahhh sundrenched beaches, world class fishing, cheap beer, convoy of = Land Rovers.... Could it possibly get any better? Gene 96 Discovery (with character dent) Aberdeen WA From dritchie@access.mountain.net Thu Feb 1 11:36:52 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:36:52 -0500 From: dritchie@access.mountain.net Subject: Insurance for Rallies and Meets We (Blue Ridge Land Rover Club) are thinking of how to get the best insurance coverage for events. And suggestions on how over clubs are handling insurance for their events would be helpful to us. If you have some background to share please let me know. Dave Ritchie - Discovery (White) From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 1 12:39:37 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:39:37 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Insurance for Rallies and Meets On Thu, 1 Feb 1996 dritchie@access.mountain.net wrote: > We (Blue Ridge Land Rover Club) are thinking of how to get the best insurance > coverage for events. And suggestions on how over clubs are handling > insurance for their events would be helpful to us. >. The purpose of insurance is to cover the ass of the club membership if anything goes wrong, however, you still have to deal with the fact that the entire membership could be sued. What Ottawa Valley Land Rovers has done: OVLR Inc. is a federally incorporated body under Canadian Federal Law. Federal incorporation was pursued for several reasons. OVLR membership exists in most Canadian provinces. Ontario incorporation would have made things slightly messy for events in another province. OVLR is in the Ottawa River valley, one side which is Ontario, the other Quebec. We hold events on both sides of the river. With incorporation, the membership of OVLR is protected against a lawsuit. You can sue the corporation, but what will you get in the way of assets that have a significant value? With the membership covered, the inclination to sue the membership, where one may have significant assets (house, etc. Deep Pocket syndrome...) is greatly dimished. Insurance was a great problem for many other clubs besides OVLR. OVLR, in conjunction with other British car clubs have formed the British Car Council. The BCC is also an incorporated body. The BCC obtains insurance for all member clubs. Going under the addage of strength in numbers, it costs individual clubs little to subscribe to the insurance policy. The insurance covers any accident at an event so long as it does not involve a moving vehicle. Under current law, any accident involving a motor vehicle is handled by the insurance attached to that vehicle(s). None of the above protects the "club" from negligence. The membership & Executive must still take all reasonable precautions against accidents and mishaps. They must be able to demonstrate this fact. If they can, they will have an easy time of it. How this helps for you in the United States is entirely a different matter. I would suggest contacting VTR (Vintage Triumph Register) or some of the much larger British marque clubs to see how they handle things. As you can see, the British marque clubs getting together in Canada has helped matters quite a bit. Trivia: The move to incorporate OVLR and later the BCC was all becasue of one unfortunate accident. The MotorSport Club of Ottawa holds (held) ice races every year. Three years ago they foolishly decided to hold them on the Ot