From Wed Jan 31 4:32:39 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 4:32:39 -30000 From: Subject: Undeliverable Message Cc: From "Steve Reddock" Tue Jan 30 05:35:14 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 05:35:14 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: What is a cresent wrench? Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Ta, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Tue Jan 30 11:33:59 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:33:59 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: wider wheel offsets for series Landrover Forward Control rims to get this advantage. They were 5 >Regards, Ian Ian, The 101 *is* six stud.But the 11A @ 11B 110FC are five stud.Perhaps these are what you bought? Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Tue Jan 30 11:50:01 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:50:01 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a *bicycle*.Also used on some good quality steam fittings.The "nut" would be round,with grooves along its length.The spanner,shaped like a "C" had a little lug on the outer end that engaged with one of the grooves.Used before we found out how to make things badly.On a bike,it is,(or was) used to tighten or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame. But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery. Cheers Mike Rooth From Ron Franklin Tue Jan 30 08:24:50 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 08:24:50 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Re: Re[2]: Collywobbles -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus > Sent: 28 January 1996 20:04 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] (read: steering relay-rjf) out of > the chassis without nuclear explosives or a cutting torch? -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- The steering on my old beast had about 15 degrees of play due to a combination of worn out rod ends and wear in the splines of the relay and both relay arms. (Be sure to keep the pinch bolts on these arms tight or the movement will ruin the splines). The arms and rod ends were easy, but the relay could have been welded in and no amount of hammering, penetrating oil or heat caused even the slightest movement. Even jacking the vehicle up using the relay shaft so the weight of the front end was on the relay didn't work. I finally had to remove the grill and radiator and build a fixture involving bars on top of the frame drilled to take 3/4 inch threaded rod. The rods went down along the sides of the crossmember and connected to another bar against the relay shaft, using spacer blocks as necessary. by tightening nuts on the bottom of the lower bar I was able to put enough pressure on the relay to cause the top of the crossmember to start to distort. At that point I got out the hammer and managed to get the thing to move about 1/32 of an inch, enough to make a beer seem in order. From then on it was a slow process of tighten, hammer, tighten, hammer, beer....going on for about 3 hours. When the relay had moved high enough to get it above the top mounting flanges I was able top use a large drift and hammer to turn it back and forth in its socket by banging on the bosses for the bolts. It finally came out, but fought up to the last 1/2 inch. What had been holding it was 29 years of rust which had expanded the diameter of the relay enough to effectively make it an interference fit in its bore. The new relay dropped right in. Have fun. -- Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 30 8:40:39 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 8:40:39 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: D90/hard cold re-start Thanks to all who replied to my questions about the hard re-start in cold conditions. Barnett (The truck's n' gear and the transmission brake is OFF!) Childress From 73363.427@compuserve.com 30 96 Jan EST 1908 Date: 30 Jan 96 08:43:27 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Heater thoughts >> If you have passengers very often, I would recommend installing an auxiliary heater in the rear. I just put one in a couple days ago and its great. Its a small box that hooks into the existing heater lines and has a built-in fan...If you want some more info, e-mail me and I'll describe the whole arrangement. << What did you use for a core. I was thinking of trying this with a old series two combined core and fan but haven't found a spare yet. Not that it is really needed down here. >> In a pinch, however, a large screwdriver (square shaft) with a crescent wrench on the shaft will usually free the plug. When you replace it, use some anti-sieze, and you'll only have to use the screwdriver in the future. I know, I know, use the proper tool for the job. But after a while you start carrying around so many tools that you run out of room for the cooler! :) << You actually already have the tool. Try inserting a 9/16" open end wrench sideways into the slot. Works like a charm. Use the largest wrench size that will fit. I used a Craftsman drag link socket for years until I saw a picture in LRO or LRW of someone doing it this way. Made me feel like an idiot! Sometimes the simplest solutions avoid us. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 30-Jan-1996 From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 96 Jan EST 1908 Date: 30 Jan 96 8:44:22 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Series - Boston Area US - Anybody got a spare front propshaft? I have a terminal case of spline death in my front propshaft, the weather sucks and no one has any new spares ( and I do mean NO ONE). Anyboy got a spare in good condition they want to sell? aj"In 2-wheel drive for the present time"r From azw@aber.ac.uk Tue Jan 30 14:03:34 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:03:34 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk Subject: Handbrake steering >There is more to handbrake steering than the 180s practiced (but never >perfected) by cretins in McDonalds' carparks. It is possible to very [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >that any idiot can do it. BTW this is not one of my hooligan manoeuvres, >this occurs on proper stage rallys. I have happy memories of the wide eyes of the opposition at Harrisons Rocks car park (talus surface), when I came in driving my old mini, doing about 40, yanked the handbrake and spun it thru 270 degrees to park perfectly, facing outwards exactly centred in teh parking space between them and the bus on the other side. They looked a little wobbly when they got out of the car. My passengers were used to this sort of thing and just got out, picked up the climbing gear and strolled casually off discussing which pub to visit at lunchtime. Multo cool-points......... I used to enjoy this sort of thing when I was a kid.......... From Ron Franklin Tue Jan 30 09:46:22 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:46:22 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Trade/swap -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- I'm a little embarrassed to post this for what it says about me. I have two aircraft projects (1934 and 1935 Fairchild C8C and C8D), that I'd be willing to trade for a good Series or RR. I am asking $23,000 as a straight sale, so it would be nice to swap for something really nice or trade plus cash. Projects not wanted as too many is the reason for the sale. If any of you are as odd/crazy as I am you know who you are, and can e-mail me direct at oldhaven@biddeford.com for details, and spare the list any further distractions. -- Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 08:54:30 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:54:30 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Series II Insurance > I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65 IIa on the road last year they listed is as a 1965 Range Rover. A few other people with Allstate have had the same experience. No differance in premiums though (!!!!).> I succesfully insured with Allstate also, but left them when they posted my payment to someone elses account, canceled me for non-payment (which I didn't find out about for over a month) then wanted to put me in the high risk group because I hadn't had insurance within the past 30 days. I prefer not to deal with companies like that. But, if it's that or no insurance.... Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "John C. White, III" Tue Jan 30 06:55:40 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:55:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? At 11:50 30.01.96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >>crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >>my life suddenly be complete if I get one? ======================= What Mike Rooth said in response ==================== Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a *bicycle*.Also used on some good quality steam fittings.The "nut" would be round,with grooves along its length.The spanner,shaped like a "C" had a little lug on the outer end that engaged with one of the grooves.Used before we found out how to make things badly.On a bike,it is,(or was) used to tighten or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame. But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery. Cheers Mike Rooth ============================================================================= Now I'm confused. I know what a crescent wrench is, and I was under the impression it was called an "adjustable spanner" in Britain. The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear mechanism that moves the lower jaw closer to (or farther away from) the upper jaw. I've heard what we call a pipewrench or monkey wrench referred to as an adjustable spanner as well, but in my dialect of the American variant of English a pipewrench's jaws aren't crescent shaped. They're straight and have toothed edges designed to grip pipes. Also a pipewrench's handles are perpendicular to its jaws whereas a crescent wrench's handle go off at about 60 degrees from perpendicular. I don't think either device has completed anyone's life, but they are handy if you have an incomplete toolbox. Now if someone could tell me what Whitworths are, and who Whitworth was that I should be mindful of him maybe my life would be complete. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California From bcooper@3wnet.com (Bill Cooper) Tue Jan 30 09:50:42 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:50:42 EST From: bcooper@3wnet.com (Bill Cooper) Subject: Series Insurance Hi there, I don't know if this will help, but I have had my 66 IIa insured through State Farm in New Jersey for the last 8 years or so, and there has been no problem. As for Comprehensive and collision, we have an 'Agreed Value' on the vehicle which is their standard policy for any non-standard vehicle. Also, on the main page of the policy, they do list it as a Land Rover, not a Range Rover, so somebody in the company knows what it is. Hope this helps, Bill Cooper bcooper@3wnet.com http://www.3wnet.com From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 30 07:20:12 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:12 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) wrote: >Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already >is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Cheers >Mike Rooth Have I been living in tool oblivion for all these years? Everyone here that I've worked with calls what I described (previous post) a crescent wrench... But I'm not one to get bogged down in nomenclature... Adjustable wrench, cresent wrench...what's the difference. Land Rover, Jeep...what's the....sorry, bad analogy. Regards, Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 30 07:20:00 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:00 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, "Steve Reddock" wrote: >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? A crescent wrench in the U.S. is also known as an 'adjustable wrench'. It has a thumbscrew which adjusts one end of the jaws to fit most any nut or bolt within reasonable size ranges. I'm generally not a fan of these tools when in the shop (plenty of proper size spanners available) but out on the trail, or on the other side of the farm, they substitute for a whole tool box full. No, having one will not cause you some mystical revelation :), but its nice and handy to have around. Regards, Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 30 07:20:18 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:20:18 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: heater mods. On Tue, 30 Jan 96, asd1@ukc.ac.uk wrote: > Could you please send the details to me as I was as cold as hell >with the recent weather. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >with the recent weather. > Why does'nt the LR heater work in the extrem cold ? The mice that power it are hibernating! :) Regards, Eric From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 09:22:31 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:22:31 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Polarity change Rich Ziegler writes snip > flash with a hot wire from the battery. Also he left out switching the two small leads going to the coil. Other than these two points > he covered the subject well. snip If I remember correctly you don't actually have to do it, you car will still run, BUT you want to be sure to because your plugs will degrade more quickly because bits of metal move in the wrong direction when they fire if your polarity isn't right. This applies also when you disconnect your coil for any reason. Make sure you reconnect the wires to the right terminal. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 09:33:02 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:33:02 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: till we meet again Well folks, it seems today may be the last day for awhile, assuming I've interpreted the messages from Bill properly. It's been real and I'll see you on the flip side. Or in the mud :-) Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 30 09:17:24 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:17:24 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? > Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a > crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will > my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Yes, your life will be complete, you can ship me your lightweight, roll over and die happy. ;-) Actually a Crescent wrench is an adjustable open end spanner made by Crescent. The proper name , here in the US, is an adjustable wrench, but Crescent is the most famous so that's what people tend to call all adjustable wrenches. They are also know affectionally as knuckle busters because of the effect they have when they slip off the nut (you have to be carefull about getting them adjusted to fit properly). As a pipe weldor/fitter and iron worker I used them alot because I was always working with different sized nuts & bolts and lugging a tool box up a column isn't my idea of fun. You really don't need them around cars. Crescent makes other types of wrenches as well. There are a number of mechanics tools on this side of the pond that are similarly mislabeled. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 30 07:43:49 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:43:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Mike Rooth wrote: > >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a [ truncated by lro-lite (was 6 lines)] > >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will > >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? > Dont see why your life should be any richer than it undoubtedly already > is,but.....its a C spanner.The sort of thing you used to use on a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > or otherwise the nut on the main pedal shaft where it went through the frame. > But what you would use one for on a Land Rover is currently a mystery. Ah, the wonders of the "English" language, and all its infinite permutations. Here in the (former) colonies, a Crescent wrench has an adjustable open end, with the working end set off at about a 30-40 degree angle from the handle, and the jaw forming four sides of a hex, the better to grab a hex head nut. I believe it was originally produced by a company using the name "Crescent" but it has long since come off patent and is produced by practically everybody. The outside of the head is rounded, and with the jaw open resembles a crescent of sorts. A good one can be very useful; a bad one with loose tolerances will quickly round over every nut it touches. The same can be said of the users. Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 96 Jan EST 1911 Date: 30 Jan 96 11:14:48 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Get the members list! If the LRO list doesn't come back up, it might be something you want to have. You can get it from majordomo. I have it - you thought I'd let you all get away that easily? BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaaaaa..... aj"Till then"r From Susan Dykstra (ArtSource) Tue Jan 30 09:27:51 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 09:27:51 TZ From: Susan Dykstra (ArtSource) Subject: Selling my Defender 90... I have a blue 1994 Defender 90 with a safari cage and extra back seat. I has 22,000 miles on it and I'm selling it for $26,000. It's in perfect condition. If you are interested, or know of someone who is looking for a Defender, I'm at a-susdy@microsoft.com - that's Seattle, Washington. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 96 Jan EST 1913 Date: 30 Jan 96 13:04:24 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Series Rover Tip: Harmonic noises from exhaust If you get a "Booming" sound or excessive engine noise at certain speeds, check the mounts on your exhaust. I had this problem, and it turned out that the center clamp on my exhaust (under the driver's seat) had loosened, allowing the whole length of header pipe and intermediate pipe to resonate. I replaced the clamp (after shearing the old one...oops) and the noise was dramatically diminished. C U Later -Alan From "Andrew A. Dallas" Tue Jan 30 13:18:42 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:18:42 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Re: Selling my Defender 90... >I have a blue 1994 Defender 90 with a safari cage and extra back seat. >I has 22,000 miles on it and I'm selling it for $26,000. It's in >perfect condition. If you are interested, or know of someone who is >looking for a Defender, I'm at a-susdy@microsoft.com - that's >Seattle, Washington. A "perfect" Defender? Are you sure it's a Land Rover? -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From KKelly6788@aol.com Tue Jan 30 13:23:04 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:23:04 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Land Rover Insurance >I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65 >IIa on the road last year they listed is as a 1965 Range Rover. Be very careful with insurance companies, when I had a '79 BMW 635csi (a car that was not sold by BMW North America) my insurance company insured it as a 633csi. This was fine with me and I never had any problems. After I sold the car I heard about a guy with a BMW 323i (another model that was never sold in the US) that had his car insured as a 318i, the insurance company paid what a 318i was worth (thousands less) when it was stolen. A few years later I had the chance to buy a 323i I made sure to have the car appraised and pay (extra) for a "stated value policy". I won't go in to details but, I totaled the car and Farmers Insurance Company offered me 50% of my "stated value". I am not the only guy who has had this problem, in the November '95 BMW club magazine there was an article "Stated Value? Hah!" It wouldn't surprise me if an insurance company offered to pay a Series owner that has his vehicle insured as a '65 Range Rover the value of a '65 Range Rover (They don't exist = $0). Moral of the story If you own a car that is not in the Blue Book or if you policy does not list the exact model you have ask a lot of questions and get every thing they say in writing. Kevin Kelly From SLYKDYK@aol.com Tue Jan 30 13:40:05 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:40:05 -0500 From: SLYKDYK@aol.com Subject: flooded Disco Had my Disco flood on starting while I was at 9700 ft above sea level and the temp was @ 0 f. The service rep at the California dealer talked about pulling plugs so cylinders could dry out if flooded badly!!! Not my idea of fun at those temps. Called the dealer in Colorado Springs...They said disconnect the electic fuel pump at firewall where there is a roll over switch and the pump engine out with the starter for a short period of time...reconnected the pump and it fired right up.Never had to do this again but you folks with efi and electric pumps might keep it in mind.. From Jimi Patel Tue Jan 30 12:00:06 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:00:06 -0800 From: Jimi Patel Subject: Re: import/export company >From jimi Fri Apr 21 14:45 PDT 1995 id AA12378; Fri, 21 Apr 95 14:45:46 -0700 From smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith) Tue Jan 30 13:28:18 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:28:18 -0800 From: smthengr@sirius.com (Jeff Smith) Subject: Intoduction/Disco accessories Hello everyone: I am new to the list. I am also a new Owner of a 1996 Discovery my first Land Rover. My favorite mail group is the euro-moto list for european motorcycle enthusiasts. I Own a 1987 Moto Guzzi LeMans 1000 SE. Does anyone know of a good source for after market accessories, other than those sold by the dealers. In particular I would like to find some running boards that look more like the ones on a Ni***n P*th***der as well as a push bar/brush guard. I also am interested in finding a trailer setup to pull my Moto Guzzi. I live in San Francisco, but mail order is no problem, if it is the right thing. I would be happy to post my impressions of the new Discovery if anyone is interested. Lastly, does anyone know the availability (in the US) and price range of the 1984 90 inch Pick up? Regards, Jeff Smith. S.E. Chair SEAONC Computer Applications Committee phone: (415) 543-8651 fax: (415) 543-8679 email: smthengr@sirius.com Smith Engineering 27 South Park San Francisco, CA 94107 From ChrisF6724@aol.com Tue Jan 30 15:33:27 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:33:27 -0500 From: ChrisF6724@aol.com Subject: re: insurance I am currently using State Farm. They could not find Land Rover listed on the computer, so they checked under "Rover". According to them, my primary car is now a '73 Rover. I think my rates are somewhere around $320 every 6 months. (Anyone know if this is high?, it doen't seem like it to me...) I don't think it will cover "off-road" accidents though... BTW age 28, married, no accidents, multicar, $500 deductable, full coverage. Chris Fisher, '73 88 Series 3 Fisher Associates Architects and Engineers Denver, Colorado From Shaun Carrigan Tue Jan 30 14:50:19 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:50:19 -0500 From: Shaun Carrigan Subject: Rear window defroster Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it = seems like it would either work or it wouldn't. Yet mine works on a = couple of wires near the top of the window, skips a wire, works = again on a wire and then =8B this is the part I really don't = understand =8B heats up a short section in the middle of a wire, with = no apparent resistance on either side of it. This leaves me rather, = well, foggy... Thanks for your thoughts, and thanks for the many responses to my = recent post about electric seat switches. I fixed mine with a can of = tuner cleaner and sent the $100 replacement back to Atlantic = British. Shaun Carrigan '88 RR From ASFCO@aol.com Tue Jan 30 16:07:21 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:07:21 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Series: Re: Heater thoughts How about using one of the 12 v ceramic heaters I've seen in catalogues advertised as Back Seat Heat at around $ 90.00 have seen another similar one at $ 49 from Northern Hydraulics....wonder if they would be able to do the job... Rgds, Steve Bradke From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Jan 30 16:24:05 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 16:24:05 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Intoduction/Disco accessories To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Hello everyone: I am new to the list. I am also a new Owner of my first Land Rover. Hey, nice to meet you. Try ROvers North 802-879-0032 in VT. or Atlantic British 800 533 2210 in NY I'm not sure but maybe British pacific in Burbank, CA 800 554 4133 Nice knowin' ya, and everyone else too. Cheers Dave From Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Tue Jan 30 14:42:36 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:42:36 -0600 From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Subject: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system Hi all, I posted this message 1/27/96 but I believe many of us did not receive the full list. So I post here again (I would really hear the answer). Question was: I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 torque split)? I think they are. Then, what would be the superiority of LR products in terms of drivetrain? For example, do LRs still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need suspension travel)? Please excuse my ignorance. Happy Rovering! Insoo 95 Red 5spd Disco (Mistress) Salt Lake City, Utah, USA From "Andrew A. Dallas" Tue Jan 30 16:49:06 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:49:06 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Re: Rear window defroster The defroster in many cars is an electrically conductive paint applied to the window. The paint has a certain electrical resistance which causes it to warm when current passes through it. The warming paint then causes the window to warm. Frequently these defrosters get scratched. The scratch causes the circuit to be broken. If the circuit isn't complete, current doesn't flow through it and the paint doesn't warm. You can find paint to repair these scratches in most auto parts stores. I haven't used any so I can't suggest a manufacturer. BTW. I'm jealous of your even limited ability to defog. My Defender has the post snow instant fog option with no defogger. -AD >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it = [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)] >Shaun Carrigan >'88 RR ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Jan 30 16:56:26 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 16:56:26 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Perfect Land Rovers A "perfect" Defender? Are you sure it's a Land Rover? Actually its probably just one with no electrics. There's also a perfect Disco available (no steering column) and a Perfect Range Rover (no gas tank) Oh yeah, and the perfect Series (no Previous Owner) OK that's it. Ciao. Sayonnara (sp?) Adios Au revoir BYe Cheers Toodles Alright that's enough melodramatic crap. The list is coming back. Don't worry. Latex Dave From Tebbin Salvesen Tue Jan 30 16:45:58 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:45:58 -0700 (MST) From: Tebbin Salvesen Subject: rover rentals Does anyone know of a rental co. in Jolly olde england-e that might have either RR or Discos for rent? I'm going in may for a month and would like to rent something that i know well as driving is somewhat hectic over there! thanks! tsalves@slcpl.slcpl.lib.ut.us From DRead@gnn.com (David Read) Tue Jan 30 19:19:23 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:19:23 From: DRead@gnn.com (David Read) Subject: Series IIa Side lenses A few days ago there was a flurry of msgs regarding how to remove the side lenses in "later series". I read these with interest 'cause I have a '71 SIIa (TKACHNC) with a burned out side light. I don't remember who described how to remove the lens but the method was to *carefully* pry the rubber seal...etc. Well, I started to *carefully* pry the seal and it *slowly* started to tear. I assume that this seal is original and will probably give its all before it allows the lens to be removed. Does anyone know if the just gaskets (seals) are available anywhere? I checked the catalog I got from Atl. Brit and the only thing they have is a complete lamp assembly (actually, they sell them in pairs, 2 for $22). I haven't yet checked w/RN. Thanks in advance, David From Wdcockey@aol.com Tue Jan 30 19:33:55 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:33:55 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system In a message dated 96-01-30 17:02:35 EST, you write: -I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 -wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 -torque split)? I think they are. Then, what would be the superiority of LR -products in terms of drivetrain? With a part time system in 4wd, or a full time system with center diff locked, the front rear torque split varies depended on the relative loads on the front and rear tires. In this case think of your propshaft as one continuous length of (flexible) tubing. If the front tires are on wet glare ice, and the rear tires are on dry pavement then the torque split is 100%-0%. Reverse your LR and the torque split is 0%-100%. With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a part-time system due to the type of transfer case. BUT with a full time system you don't have to continually decide when to shift to 4wd because conditions are deteriorating, and when to shift to 2wd because traction is improving. Also vehicle stability may be improved on marginal traction surfaces. Only when conditions are really bad and locked center diff. is necessary are the systems equal. David Cockey From Michael Carradine Tue Jan 30 16:29:17 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:29:17 -0800 From: Michael Carradine Subject: Re: Enough! At 12:42 PM 1/30/96 -0800, Sue Bernard wrote: >Michael, what I'm trying to figure out it why you ask Bob and Scotty all >these questions??? Frankly, Sue, it's none of your business! Bob and I wrote each other occassionally, and he even answered this latest email you posted (should I post his reply too? :) . If he doesn't care for my email or questions I'm sure he's man enough to say so... aren't you Bob?? >Perhaps someone else can give you a satisfactory answer since you seem to >think both Bob and Scotty talk in circles, so I'm posting your latest >message to Bob to the Left Coast List with this thought in mind. Well, this is definetly a first. I know you share a mailbox, and most likely read each others mail, but why you publicly post 'private' mail to another individual is beyond me. Between this and the latest LROA fiasco you drew me into, I can only conclude that your medication has lapsed. Out of pity to you and deference to Bob, I'll restrain myself from further comment, except to say that deleting your further email messages is easy enough, while having the members of the LROA in these trying times dominated by your unpredictable siamesian schizophrenic personality is another matter. >Cheers, I don't think so, and you shouldn't either. ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html >Sue Bernard >---------------------------- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 89 lines)] >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU Tue Jan 30 19:56:35 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:56:35 -0400 (EDT) From: KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU Subject: looking for a rover Hello, I am looking for a 1969 or earlier IIa or III. Basically looking for and everyday vehicle that I can fusts around with. Want it to have a solid frame, good body panels, good interior and good engine. I am willing to put some work into it but nothing to major. Right now, I lack the resources of a garage. Want it fully runnning and able to be driven home. Also willing to have a frame put in it as long as everything else is in great shape. I realize I'll probably be spending a certain amount whether I buy it or put a new frame on it. Hope you can help, Kropp_J@Denison.Edu From Bombdiver@aol.com Tue Jan 30 20:17:58 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:17:58 -0500 From: Bombdiver@aol.com Subject: Unimog That interesting Unimog that you saw with the front-end loader and the folding bucket in the back is known as the C-Tool. It's used by Army for EOD work as well as combat engineers. It'll do anything from excavating buried ordnance to making the perfect size foxhole. The Army has an instructional course located at Redstone Arsenal. The Navy doesn't use it because you can't fit it into a Zodiac and it's not airdrop capable. Cheers, Andy From Ron Franklin Tue Jan 30 20:58:16 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 20:58:16 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Fwd: Trade/swap -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 30 18:06:43 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: looking for a rover So where is denison.edu? Good luck on that pre 1969 Series III. And is your search worldwide? wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us On Tue, 30 Jan 1996 KROPP_J@CC.DENISON.EDU wrote: > Hello, > I am looking for a 1969 or earlier IIa or III. Basically looking for [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > realize I'll probably be spending a certain amount whether I buy it or put a > new frame on it. > Hope you can help, Kropp_J@Denison.Edu From Duncan Brown Tue Jan 30 21:30:54 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:30:54 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Lucas lamp parts All, > Does anyone know if the just gaskets (seals) are available anywhere? I > checked the catalog I got from Atl. Brit and the only thing they have > is a complete lamp assembly (actually, they sell them in pairs, 2 for > $22). I haven't yet checked w/RN. My favorite source for Lucas lamp parts is The Roadster Factory in Armagh, PA. (Can you tell I used to own Triumphs?) They have original Lucas parts where possible, and "British Motor Heritage Approved" repros where necessary (complete with original Lucas part numbers for you purists!) If you know your part numbers, call 800-678-8764 If you need part number assistance, call 800-234-1104 Worldwide fax ordering is 814-446-6729 (Things go smoother once you have an established customer number with them...) I will list the lamp part numbers here for reference. Also note that many other parts (generator, starter, etc) are nearly identical to Triumph or MG equivalents, often differing just in the drive gear or pulley or whatever. Bush/brush/bearing type parts are cheap and identical from these guys. POINTED LENS PARTS: -- LU54581622 Clear lens -- LU54581651 Amber lens -- LU576105 Rubber body (short) [this is the "gasket" part] FLAT LENS PARTS: -- LU54583038 Clear lens -- LU575003 Rubber body (long) COMMON PARTS: -- LU572734 Chrome rim -- LU54584780 Bulb holder plate, single filament (typical for LR's) -- LU576985 Bulb holder plate, dual filament (get creative!) When I got my truck, it had no front marker/signal lights. I put together a set from these very parts, with clear pointed lenses for marker lights and amber pointed lenses for turn signals. I have also seen original Series II/IIA LR's with amber pointed for signals and clear FLAT for markers. Whatever trips your trigger! Hope this helps someone...TRF is a great company, in my experience. Duncan From Jeff & Laura Kessler Tue Jan 30 22:01:37 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:01:37 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Re: Rear window defroster At 02:50 PM 1/30/96 -0500, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Anybody ever fix a rear window defroster? I'm no electrician, but it = [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] >Shaun Carrigan >'88 RR Shaun I saw a response to you saying the wires are painted on the rear window and it reminded me. Some years ago VW had a repair kit for their rear defrosters that was not much more than some masking tape and a tube of paint for repairing breaks in the wire. You may find such a kit in a auto parts store. Good Luck. Jeff Kessler 1988 Range Rover Newport New Hampshire 603-863-7883 PS I too used the tuner cleaner to get my seats running. From HMEdwards@aol.com Tue Jan 30 22:50:45 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:50:45 -0500 From: HMEdwards@aol.com Subject: Re: Series: Oil drain spanner Tim, I spent many efforts trying to find what in somes areas is called a "dogbone", with numerous projections at each end to fit recessed plugs. No such luck, Mac tools, Snap On, Sears and JC Whitless all came up with a blank look. Even tried tracking down a company which had produced them. Closed up shop. However, the boy and girls at Sears do sell 1/2 inch. open end wrenches, which when turned on side fit the slot perfectly. And if it breaks, they give you a new one. Harry Edwards Las Vegas 72 Series III From Jeff & Laura Kessler Tue Jan 30 23:15:24 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:24 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Re: Land Rover Insurance At 01:23 PM 1/30/96 -0500, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >>I've had Rovers insured with Allstate for about 8 years. When I put the '65 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] >Blue Book or if you policy does not list the exact model you have ask a lot >of questions and get every thing they say in writing. >Kevin Kelly As an insurance agent I know about stated value. It is not worth the extra you get charged for it. The Stated Value endorsement to an auto policy (and there may be some variations state to state) says it will pay the LESS of either the stated value or the actual cash value of the auto. Think about this: You insure your auto with the stated value endorsement for $10,000. You pay for $10,000 of coverage. 1. Say the actual cash value (ACV) is $5000 (market conditions or it rusted out etc) when you are totaled or what ever. You get $5000 less your deductible. 2. Say it increases in value, it is now worth $15,000. You get $10,000 less the deductible. The regular old, plain auto policy pays actual cash value at the time of the loss. The stated value endorsement does nothing for the buyer of the policy. It may help the insurance company put a cap on an auto they do not know. BUT Land Rovers from 65-70 and from 87 have insurance rating symbols assigned to determine what companies should charge. What you want for an endorsement (good luck) is the agreed value endorsement. This means they will repair, replace or pay up to the agreed amount of insurance on the auto. Fire trucks are usually insured this way since they are well cared for and tend to have very little use for their age. If you have pictures, receipts etc to justify what you think it is worth so much the better. Anyhow, I hope this is of some help and not too confusing and I usually do not like to talk insurance after work. Jeff Kessler 1988 Range Rover (an insurance symbol of 17 on a scale of 1 to 21) Newport New Hampshire 603-863-7883 From Pat Guerin Tue Jan 30 18:48:14 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:48:14 -1000 (HST) From: Pat Guerin Subject: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update Aloha from Hawaii! Just got back the D90 and here's a recap for those suffering the same problem: 1. Passenger Seat Rattling due to cracked seat runner. Replaced with MXC5778 (new subframe). 2. The shop updated the latch assembly and only changed the cable due to the wear and tear it took until then. Now it works like a charm. Gee now I can use two fingers :) We now have about 18K on the odometer and no other problems to report. Aloha for now... pat From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Tue Jan 30 21:51:52 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:51:52 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? >Presumably it is a terminology question, but I have never heard or a >crescent wrench. Can someone describe what it does & how it does it. Will >my life suddenly be complete if I get one? Crescent wench (n) A babe from Turkey. (Opps... wrong book) Crescent Wrench (n) An adjustable spanner. Comes in Metric, SAE and Whitworth sizes. Cheers Mike From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Tue Jan 30 21:51:51 1996 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:51:51 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Polarity change Rich Ziegler replies... - Ashley Horn asked for instructions on reversing polarity and -Mike L. replied. But, he flashed the wrong terminal on the -generator. Instructions I have in hand and have successfully used -for years say the smaller terminal (field terminal) is the one to -flash with a hot wire from the battery. Also he left out switching -the two small leads going to the coil. Other than these two points Thanks, Rich... Somewhere around here I have real Lucas instructions on how to polarize a generator. They came with a rebuilt generator for my Triumph. But it's been a while and the old memory is missing a bit or two... And, I completely forgot about the coil polarity. Not a major point, but you will get a hotter spark if it is connected correctly. One of my books show checking the spark by bouncing it off a lead pencil. You can tell if the coil is connected correctly based on the color and direction of the spark on the lead... (WARNING!! All you kids with Discos and Rangies... don't be trying this with your Mont Blanc pens!!) Cheers Mike From kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Wed Jan 31 09:01:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:01:00 UTC 0000 From: kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: D90, Hood Latch (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions There have been numerous postings on the D90 hood latch. If it takes more than two fingers worth of pull, and pulls out more than an inch before releasing, it is likely faulty and will need to be repaired. The problem is that the factory cable routing is incorrect, so if they route the new cable the same way as the old one it won't last very long. My garage found a factory fix for it when installing the third cable and now it works very well. Bill Kessels, 94D90, Ottawa Ontario From "Steve Reddock" Wed Jan 31 04:54:09 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:54:09 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth Hi all, Thanks for the help with crescent wrenches, I'll guess Mike was wrong and it is an adjustable spanner. The pipe spanner someone mentioned with serrated teeth and a similar thumb wheel which operates teeth PERPENDICULAR to the handle (also with a slight spring controlled movement to tighten the grip as you pull) are called Stilsons, presumably a brand name here. There are also another type, often called pipe grips, which I call footprints, which are similar to parrot faces (cos they look like parrot faces!) which are like a pair of bent pliers with a moveable pivot. Are the people who think up these things on medication? Whitworth is the name of a thread standard. It is quite cunning as the head of the nut/bolt is a size directly related to the thread diameter (in inches). It a 1/2" whit nut refers to a nut which takes a half inch diameter whit bolt. The head for this will be considerably larger & the half inch spanner will look more like a 1 inch. It is rarely used these days, most people are unaware of a whit nut when they find one and assume it is a worn UNF or something, until the try and replace the nut! The only whit nut I know of on a landy are the bolts holding the handbrake drum on. There may be more. If this is the end of the list, so long and thanks for all the fish. Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Wed Jan 31 08:57:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 08:57:00 UTC 0000 From: kessels=20bill=20=28ca-otta-mc=29%ott01%c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: D90, snow in engine (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions John Putham had a problem with his Series II engine being covered in ice and snow. Last weekend I was staying over in a small town in Quebec, when we had a brutal wind/ice/rain storm. When I went out in the morning to start the D90, I noticed the wind had forced a large quantity of snow through the hard top weatherstripping into the Rover. I tried to start it, lots of battery juice, but it wouldn't catch. Having driven fuel injected cars for 15 years, I am very paranoid about flooding, so I stopped at three attempts (at this point I thought I had already flooded it). Popped the hood, and saw to my dismay the distributer, alternator and most of the plug wires were covered in ice--alas, there is no weather stripping between the bonnet and the wings(and a 1cm gap). I plugged in the block heater for a couple of hours, borrowed some WD-40 like stuff from a nearby garage, scraped off the ice and doused the whole works. It started. I had to put up with the razzing from my friends that my expensive, heavy duty vehicle wouldn't start, but at least I didn't have to suffer the degregation of having it towed away! Now I carry WD-40 with me, and am looking for a solution to better seal the bonnet. Bill Kessels, 94D90, Ottawa Ontario From "Matthew Loxton" Wed Jan 31 09:48:30 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:48:30 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Crescent Wrench John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear.. Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is the thing referred to as "crescent wrench". The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin). The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just "wrench". SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an Islamic one?) From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Jan 31 07:29:22 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:29:22 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re-galvanizing/Baltimore Someone mentioned a place in the Baltimore area that does galvanizing..Does anyone have the Name or phone number of that place?? Thanks, Steve From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 04:52:37 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:52:37 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Series: Re: Heater thoughts On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, ASFCO@AOL.COM wrote: >How about using one of the 12 v ceramic heaters I've seen in catalogues >advertised as Back Seat Heat at around $ 90.00 have seen another similar one >at $ 49 from Northern Hydraulics....wonder if they would be able to do the >job... I think these types of heaters draw a significant amount of power from the vehicle's electric system, at least much more than a heater fan. The electric units I've seen listed put out something like 3000 BTU (unknown current draw), my coolant 'powered' unit puts out 16,000 with less than 5 amps at full fan speed. If this is so, then most series LRs would never have the power to keep such an electrical accesory working, except maybe at highway speeds. You would then have to change the charging system... Hope this helps. Regards, Eric From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Jan 31 08:26:50 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:26:50 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: West Coast re-galvanizing also supposed to be a place on the West Coast that does regalvinizing work for British Northwest L-R...anybody know who that might be??? Thanks. Steve From "Tom Rowe" Wed Jan 31 07:31:44 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:31:44 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Enough! Huh? Please take stuff like this outside. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Matthew Loxton" Wed Jan 31 12:31:31 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 12:31:31 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Crescent Wrench John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear.. Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is the thing referred to as "crescent wrench". The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin). The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just "wrench". SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an Islamic one?) From "John C. White, III" Wed Jan 31 06:05:40 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:05:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Crescent Wrench Colonies? Are you talking about the US or Canada? I've never heard anyone from any state call a wrench a spanner. Must be Canadian, eh? Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 09:48 31.01.96 UT, Matthew Loxton wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] >very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an >Islamic one?) From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 09:12:22 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:12:22 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: Enough! To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net At 12:42 PM 1/30/96 -0800, Sue Bernard wrote: >Michael, what I'm trying to figure out it why you ask Bob and Scotty all >these questions??? Wow, I had no idea such soap opers style goings on took place in the halls of Land Roverdom. As if the list wasn't exciting enough with all this other worthless banter. Once again, please remember what Land Rovers are about and stop wasting our time (and yours) with these silly squabbles. Nobody cares whether you have something to prove or whether you can prove it. Please if you must respond to this don't clutter the net, send it to me personally. Dave" Tastes like Spiced Ham" Bobeck '72 SerIII SWB "Green Car" Burleith LRC Washington DC From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 09:40:43 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:40:43 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Wenching, Wincing Colonies? Are you talking about the US or Canada? I've never heard anyone from any state call a wrench a spanner. Must be Canadian, eh? What's all this about wenches and Spaniards? I thought this was the Land Rover list. Ha Ha Dave From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 09:37:48 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 09:37:48 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Safari Door thing. Does anybody remeber seeing a piece in LROI about fittin a gas cylinder from a hatchback in place of the factory door stay on a Series Rear door? I remember seeing it but I don't remember what month it was and I think someone made off with it anyway. Any ideas how to easily do this? Dave "Going for Plush" From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Wed Jan 31 06:45:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:45:00 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: whitworth & SUs on Land Rovers > The only whit nut I know of on a landy are the bolts holding > the handbrake drum on. There may be more. You will also find them holding the steering swivel balls on the front axle housing. And of course if you have other cars you'll find them on SU carburators. I don't know if I mentioned it on this list..... The intake manifold for the TR3 lines up with the intake ports on the 2-1/4L petrol Land Rover engine. It should be possible to adapt the engine on right hand drive cars to dual SUs. I would guess better petrol milage and more power. The steering box is in the way on left hand drive cars, otherwise I would have tried it. TeriAnn From ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas) Wed Jan 31 09:45:17 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:45:17 -0400 From: ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas) Subject: HEATER I would like to fit a SIII with a Kodiak Heater- I would really appreciate any suggestions about: 1. Finding one (In NY-New england) and 2. How EXPENSIVE will it be? Thanks! AY From /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com Wed Jan 31 09:47:41 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:47:41 -0500 From: /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com Subject: Repair guide for Series IIa or III available? From DucNut@aol.com Wed Jan 31 09:55:31 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:55:31 -0500 From: DucNut@aol.com Subject: Re: Disco Accessories Hi Again Jeff - Glad to see that you found your way to the rover list from euro-moto. With repsect to the disco accessories, I agree that Rovers North & Atlantic Brit are good sources. I recently received some info from Safari Gard regarding their add on bumpers, roof racks, etc. They have a "rock slider" product that replaces the plastic door sill guard(?) on the disco. it doesn't provide a step, but apparently does provide substantial protection for that area. You can call them at 909.698.6114 & talk to Greg or Brandi. If you want copies of this info today, just let me know & I'll fax it to you. BTW, you might try Rovers West (Pat) at 602.748.8115 ttfn, Keith Armstrong 515.224.7640 voice 515.224.0305 fax From HalatGRM@aol.com Wed Jan 31 10:08:32 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:08:32 -0500 From: HalatGRM@aol.com Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system >With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a >part-time system due to the type of transfer case. Therefore, you would expect the new T**ot* 4R**n*r (with part time 4wd and locking _rear_ differential) to be more capable than a Disco in really slippery situations? (Say it isn't so!) Hal Hunnicutt '96 Discovery From Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Wed Jan 31 08:59:21 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:59:21 -0600 From: Insoo@ceramatec.com (Insoo Bay) Subject: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system Hi all, I posted this message 1/27/96 but I believe many of us did not receive the full list. So I post here again (I would really hear the answer). Question was: I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 torque split)? I think they are. Then, what would be the superiority of LR products in terms of drivetrain? For example, do LRs still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need suspension travel)? Please excuse my ignorance. Happy Rovering! Insoo 95 Red 5spd Disco (Mistress) Salt Lake City, Utah, USA From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jan 31 11:06:57 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:06:57 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: HEATER To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net I would like to fit a SIII with a Kodiak Heater- I would really appreciate any suggestions about: 1. Finding one (In NY-New england) and 2. How EXPENSIVE will it be? I imagine theres afew laying about on parts cars here and there, but I'd suggest that the satndard Series III heater if operating properly is more than sufficient to heat the car. Unless you've got a 109, then I guesss try the Kodiak. You still have to deal with a 30 year old heater core though. Cheers Dave "Driving with the windows open" From "Hazell Paul" Wed Jan 31 16:07:35 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:07:35 +0000 From: "Hazell Paul" Subject: Midlands 4x4 jumble Did anyone try to go to the Midlands 4x4 jumble near Malvern at the weekend (Sunday)? I saw loads of RR, SIII, Discos etc milling about on the road around the area but it seems it was cancelled/postponed until March the 10th? :-( [can anyone confirm date]. But what I want to know is why?. There was a bit of snow about - nothing much (put it this way I went in a VW Golf, my LT/WT is in my garage in Cornwall - were in the middle of moving house) so I hope to God it wasn't "due to bad weather" - it would be a little ironic - can any one enlighten me? From 73363.427@compuserve.com 31 96 Jan EST 1911 Date: 31 Jan 96 11:36:12 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: Repair guide for Series IIa or III available? >>Greetings from Atlanta, GA...<< Ditto >> As a prospective D90 or Series IIa/III owner (this year, I keep telling myself) I'd like to know if a do-it-yourself repair guide exists? << There are quite a few good guides available. My personal favorites for series vehicles are the Haynes guide and the Land Rover shop manuals. The shop manual is quite extensive but generally very good at explaining things. It is better than most factory shop manuals that I have seen. The Haynes manual is less extensive but is written for the owner and not the mechanic. I mainly use the shop manual and if it gets to confusing then go to the Haynes manual for clarification. I have yet to see the D90 factory manuals, but it is probably similar to the Range Rover which is about 3" thick. The factory manuals prices vary from place to place, but normally run about $75-SerIII. $95-SerIIa. The haynes guide is around $25 I think. >>Many many years ago when I drove a late model VW Bug I had a manual called "The Idiot's Guide to VW Repair" (or something like that). It came in a spiral bound format and by the time I sold my bug it was soiled lovingly with oil and dirt. << You think *THAT* had oil and dirt, just you wait! :) ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 31-Jan-1996 From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Wed Jan 31 16:52:45 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:52:45 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth >Thanks for the help with crescent wrenches, I'll guess Mike was wrong >and it is an adjustable spanner. OK,I'll concede at least *part* of the "argument" (which isnt).In the wider context,obviously a crescent wrench is an adjustable spanner,*but*, I've just been talking to an air con engineer,who is the same age as myself, and,like me,he recognises the term crescent wrench as a "C" spanner,and also as a sort of "open ended ring spanner" particularly for use on pipe unions. So perhaps it depends on age and location,or something. Steve mentioned footprints.This is the English equivalent,in a way to the "Crescent" thing in the US.Footprint were originally the firm that made these things.I suspect they have been absorbed into the Stanley/Moore&Wright/ whoever conglomerate now since I havent seen a genuine pair for some years. BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo Chinese things break. Cheers Mike Rooth From Mr Ian Stuart Wed Jan 31 17:01:10 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:01:10 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system Quoting Insoo Bay, from 31 Jan 96 > I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time > 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it > does not need suspension travel)? Series landys are different to defenders/disco's/RR's (and other systems) A series vehicle is usually rear-wheel drive only. You may optionally lock the transfer box to split the power 50/50 (front/rear), but the axle diffs will still spin if one wheel loses grip. The newer vehicles have a limited-slip centre diff. This system will allow a limited difference to occur between the front and rear axles (both of which are driven at all times). Locking the centre diff just stops the slip happening at all (useful at slow speeds!) Locking diffs actually refer to axle diffs - locking the two sides of an axle together. With two locking diffs and the centre locked, all 4 wheels will turn at the same rate (which is really bad unless there is some give in the ground - think about the distance travelled by the 4 wheels as you turn a corner) Does this help? I didn't really understand the question, so I hope I've answered the right thing ;-) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or Quote of 1996: "A.L.S. is a good example of scotissityness" From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 10:17:30 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:17:30 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: stuck in Tahoe/4wd system On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: >>With the center diff locked a full time system has no advantage over a >>part-time system due to the type of transfer case. >Therefore, you would expect the new T**ot* 4R**n*r (with part time 4wd and >locking _rear_ differential) to be more capable than a Disco in really >slippery situations? (Say it isn't so!) All things being equal (you can tell I majored in Economics!), the Toyota you describe will perform better off-road than the Land Rover. The Disco with the center diff locked is the same as any part-time 4x4 with the front axle engaged. The Toyota adds the added traction dimesion of a locking (or limited slip?) rear diff, BUT, you can't just consider torque distribution when you evaluate a vehicle's off-road capability. The Toyota is not match for the LR because of much greater axle articulation and superior approach, departure(especially) and breakover angles. The locking rear diff in the Toyota is fine, but only if one rear wheel is touching is it an advantage. If you have a vehicle that can keep both all four wheels in constant contact with the ground, the torque is much better distributed, and wheelspin substantially eliminated. Although a bit convoluted explanation...the LR still comes out ahead! Regards, Eric P.S. Put a locker in the rear of a Disco and it even gets better! From Hugo Madden Wed Jan 31 10:48:42 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:48:42 -0800 From: Hugo Madden Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system >I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time 4 >wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism (ex, 50-50 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain (assume it does not need >suspension travel)? ...but of course if you're a Poupon-sucking Rangie owner, you have the added advantage of electronic traction control, which automatically applies braking to any wheel that's spinning, thereby transferring additional power to the wheel at the other end of the same axle. Supposedly, this is a better deal than a locking diff although why LR installed it on Rangies, which as we all know never go off-road, I do not know! _______ //_/_|__\___ \_ - ___ - _d (o) (o) From PurnellJE@aol.com Wed Jan 31 14:10:00 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:10:00 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 Seat Rattle & Hood Latch Update In a message dated 96-01-31 00:07:47 EST, you write: > 1. Passenger Seat Rattling due to cracked seat runner. Replaced >with MXC5778 (new subframe). [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >due to the wear and tear it took until then. Now it works like a charm. >Gee now I can use two fingers :) Thanks for posting this info Pat. Good to know I am not alone in these exact problems....oh the joys of mass production. JOhn. RoverRattler From William Owen Wed Jan 31 13:10:45 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:10:45 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply >I still have a question to be solved. Are most 4 wheel engaged part time > 4 wheelers and center diff locked full time LRs same 4wd mechanism .... > still have better system in packed snow road, or muddy terrain >(assume it does not need suspension travel)? I think what you are asking is whether there is a difference between a Disco/D90/older RR with locked center diff and a vehicle with part time four wheel drive. I don't think there is a difference as to the drive. A older jeep cherokee, for example, with part time only 4x4 locks the center diff when the 4x4 is engaged. This is why it is part time and should not be driven on dry pavement with 4x4 engaged. Full time 4x4 is advantagous in some situtations where dry pavement is mixed in with snow and ice. Part time and/or locked center diff is better for all out traction. As to whether LR has better traction in snow, there are many factors involved. Locking center diff is very good and limited slip or locking axle diffs would add more traction. Tires are crucial also. The Driver may be the most important factor. (While driving a Cherokee, I have passed in ditches and helped out many other 4x4's which were, technically, superior or equal to mine.) I can't prove to you that a LR is better in snow than other 4x4's with part time four wheel drive (perhaps someone else on the lists can) but there are many antidotal accounts which seems to indicate they are. However, I feel their biggest advantage in general is the stregnth of their components and their suspension. From JFisk1120@aol.com Wed Jan 31 14:47:01 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:47:01 -0500 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: Advice please..... In a couple of weeks, I will be heading to Phoenix with the girls for some sun and fun. I have a listing of "Jeep Tours" in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. We would like to take a "western desert adverture, etc" tour. Does anyone in that area know any of these companies that are listed and if so, do any of them have Land Rovers? God forbid if I should have to ride in a Jeep!!! I would appreciate any advise on this. Please email me direct because I am having problems downloading attached files therefore I have been unable to read the digest until AOL clears my path. Thank you again, Jan Fisk JFisk1120@aol.com (-30 degree wind chill here and counting the days until 70 degree weather!!!) Companies I have found listed in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area: Absolutely Arizona! Adventure Tours An Arizona Adventure Arizona Awareness Desert Jeep Tours Arizona Bound Tours, Inc. Arizona Desert Mountain Jeep Tours Arizona Unique Buggy Adventures, Inc. Arrowhead Desert Jeep Tours Bronco Billy's Arizona Adventures Diamondback Adventures Trailblazer Tours Wild West Tours, Inc. From Dixon Kenner Wed Jan 31 14:55:31 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:55:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Mike Rooth wrote: > BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably > *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more > you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo You mean a pipe wrench... :-) Very useful, especially on unco-operative crank bolts/starter dogs. From "Ron Franklin" Wed Jan 31 15:08:21 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:08:21 -4 From: "Ron Franklin" Subject: Sleeper top Does anyone know of a fellow named Doug Richardson, or are you on the list Doug? I have an article from the 70's describing his Land Rover and it was fitted with something called a SLEEPER TOP which opened Dormobile fashion but used an adapter frame he had designed. The Land Rover 109 diesel was pretty impressive looking and also incorporated his own designs for a bumper which contained 5 1/2 gal of oil and a camping rig which could be installed in 15 min by sliding it in the back. It would be interesting to know what became of the designs, the Rover, and Doug, as he planned to market these things. He lived in Malibu, California at the time, and had taken Land Rovers to Moscow, the Sahara, and Central America, according to the article. (Petersen's Complete Book of Four-Wheel Drive--The Ultimate Land Rover.) Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Jan 31 15:25:54 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:25:54 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Advice please..... Hey Jan....I'd love to go to Arizona with some girls too..Heck....i'd even bring Talbot and Richer along for the ride....(its cold here too)....Rgds Steve From "Matthew Loxton" Wed Jan 31 20:21:30 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 20:21:30 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Crescent wrench John wrote .. . The open end of the tool fits hexagonal nuts or bolts and is adjustable via a worm gear.. Out here in the colonies we know and love this tool, and call it a "shifting spanner", some call it a "Free-State Micrometer" but that's a derogatory term aimed at the inhabitants of a particular province. I had thought that this is the thing referred to as "crescent wrench". The non-adjustable form of this, and often accompanied by a ring bit at the opposite end, is known as an "open ended flat", or "flat and ring" in the case of the combo. (some even come with a wobbly articulated socket as the other end, by means of which one removes knuckle-skin). The jobbie with the teeth and jaws at 90deg to the handle, is known as a "pipe wrench" or "Bobbejaan wrench/spanner" (meaning baboon spanner) or just "wrench". SO, if you were to ask your assistant for the "crescent wrench", you might very well find in your outstreched hand, a bent baboon spanner. (or maybe an Islamic one?) From Sanjay Prasad Wed Jan 31 15:22:13 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:22:13 -0500 From: Sanjay Prasad Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply With respect to the advantages of full-time versus part-time 4wd, I was driving on I-89 South from Stowe, Vermont to Boston a few Sundays ago in my '90 Range Rover during a light snow storm which had put just enough snow on the road to make it slippery. The snowfall was patchy so the road at some points was clear, at other points had patches of light packed down snow, and at other points was partly clear and partly snowy/icy. We went by one Ford Explorer in the ditch, and saw, at different times, a Jeep Wagoneer and a Jeep Grand Cherokee spin out, but, luckily, not hit anything. During the entire 3 1/2 hour drive, I didn't notice any slip on the RR. I assume that the road conditions weren't slippery enough for the part-time vehicles to use 4wd. I also wonder if the type of tires those vehicles were using had much to do with slipping. I've noticed that alot of the newer SUVs have street tires. Also, does anyone know about how much effect the RR's relatively thin tires have with traction on the snow? Sanjay Prasad '90 Range Rover Boston, Massachusetts From HalatGRM@aol.com Wed Jan 31 15:39:41 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:39:41 -0500 From: HalatGRM@aol.com Subject: Discovery Maintenance My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book. I'd rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.) Can anyone shed any light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc? While I have the floor, is anyone putting together a Disco faq? Hal Hunnicutt '96 Discovery From Kevan Shaw Wed Jan 31 19:49:41 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:49:41 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Singapore Land Rovers I have just returned from a week in Singapore (working, not holiday!) and, as I have been trying to persuade my friends there to buy a Landie went to have a look at one. It was a series 2A diesel SWBof unknown vintage but probably pre '65, it went ok but took ages to start, was smoking, blowing fumes from the oil filler and all the pedals were at the limits of their travel. I looked very good having been nicely painted in maroon with lots of bits of chequer plate in the load bay footwells etc and had a cut down tilt providing a roof (all that is really required in that climate! asking price? Sing. Dollars 20,000 that is about uk=A3 9000.! they have a brutal ca= r tax system involving a thing called COE ( Certificate of Enitilement) which accounts for a fair whack of the price, I have been told that this price is about the cheapest you can get any moving vehicle for but still!! There was also a series 3 diesel SWB which had spent most of its life towing things, it had a Salisbury axle a double front bumper and showed signs of several colours of green under its present off white paint so I suspect is ex military but this does not show on the record. It also has no heater or even provision for same, no hole in the wing and a horizontal air filter where the heater core and fan should be. Also there was a battery shaped drop in the cubby under the passenger seat and an extra cubby under the centre seat, anyone any idea about origins of this one? I suggested my friend went back to see this one when it was fixed up as the series 2 looked to me like a money pit! regards Kevan Shaw I tried sending this last week but I don';t think it ever appeared, let me know if this is a duplicate posting folks! From "Tom Rowe" Wed Jan 31 15:11:06 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:11:06 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth > these things.I suspect they have been absorbed into the Stanley/Moore&Wright/ whoever conglomerate now since I havent seen a genuine pair for some years.> Mike, Crescent is still going strong. As a matter of fact I just bought another Crescent adjustable wrench. They also came out a few years ago with a {(Vice-grip) uh-oh, another explanation needed} that's better than Vice-grips. > BUT,and this thread reminded me,a decent pair of Stillsons,or preferably *two* pairs are very useful indeed round stubborn old Land Rovers.The more you heave on them,the tighter they grip.But get a good pair,the cheapo Chinese things break.> When I was a pipefitter I never bought anything but Rigid brand pipe wrenches. They also make them in Aluminum (to match Land Rovers, I had to relate it somehow) that are just as strong as the all steel variety. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From LTC Larry Smith Wed Jan 31 15:47:14 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 15:47:14 EST (2047Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: Crescent wrenches, pipe spanners & whitworth Mike, What you call a "crescent" wrench is what we call a flare nut wrench. Looks like a ring spanner with a small space cut out to allow slippage over tubing, etc. The American venacular has added "Crescent" wrench, adjustable jaw spanner, because of the trade name. Much like "kleenex" is generic for facial tissue and "xerox" for all copies. 'til later, Larry From 73363.427@compuserve.com 31 96 Jan EST 1915 Date: 31 Jan 96 15:27:28 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: Re: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Rep Disclaimer: I live in the south so know little about ice and snow driving. I would think that one of the benefits of having full time FWD versus the part time, is that in icy conditions you have the benefit of a center diff while in FWD. This way *each* wheel can turn at whatever speed it wants. If there is no center diff then there will be some rotational differences between the front and rear axles. This must be made up by tire slip and to a limited amount drivetrain slop. I would think that this slip, while quite small, could lead to loss of traction and control. I would lock the center diff only when I thought the probability of a tire losing traction was high. But hey, what do I know. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 31-Jan-1996 From "Andrew A. Dallas" Wed Jan 31 16:28:17 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:28:17 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: D90 Problems I'm about to bring my D90 in for its 15,000 mile service and hopefully get a "few" defects taken care of. I've read about several of these problems showing up in other D90s and was wondering how many of these problems are common in other D90s. The list of problems is frustratingly long but I do expect Land Rover Metro West to take care of them all under warrantee. LRMW has been great in the past. If you've had any of these problems taken care of under warrantee or had any problem getting your repairs covered under warrantee, I'd like to hear about them. I might expect to have a few of these problems in a car that was five years old or more but this vehicle is a '95. Here's the list: Driver Seat - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out. - Sticky Seat adjustments. Both the recline and forward/backward movement is very stiff. Rear Taillights - Water in lenses. - Running lights don't function (probably caused by the water) Rear Door - Rusty top hinge bolt - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and down) Fuse Box - Fuse holder not installed Rollbar - Padding is cracking Front Headlight Fixture - the right side panel is held on with screws which are rusting. The left is fine. Heater Blower - switch is VERY stiff Hood Release - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the none too distant future. Passenger Window (Hard Top) - Much more wind noise than the driver's side. Driver Window (Hard Top) - The front pane must be opened befor the rear pane can be opened. -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From Dixon Kenner Wed Jan 31 16:39:18 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:39:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: > While I have the floor, is anyone putting together a Disco faq? Not formally... I have a large text file here called "disco", as well as a second called "rangerover". I and Ben Smith maintain the Land Rover FAQ at http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/ Rgds, Dixon From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Wed Jan 31 17:06:11 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:06:11 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Series: Oil drain spanner I just learned this last night while draining/dropping the rear diff to remove the sheared spline from a broken rear halfshaft. It seems that the handle of one of the wrenches that came with the original Land-Rover toolkit is perfectly sized to remove these plugs. Use a "crescent" adjustable wrench on the handle for a little extra leverage if necessary. Of course, *I* don't have the original Land-Rover toolkit, though I'm now in the market for one. (Anyone have an extra? EMAIL me.) Fortunately, I have a friend who does. Thanks Doug (Main) for loaning me your spanner, as well as technical know-how and labor in getting my Rover back on the road. As for that screwdriver (mis)used as a punch to drive that torsional distorted spline piece from the diff: no worries. "IT BECAME DAMAGED UNDER *NORMAL* USE!" (I just love saying that to the guys in Sears' tool department) RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Jan 31 14:35:47 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:35:47 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Discovery Maintenance I've had my Disco in to the dealer for all scheduled maintenance as well as off-interval oil changes and they NEVER stamp that little book. But I always keep the receipts (it seems like a lot of the info is in some computer somewhere) I think the key is to keep dated receipts and to note the milage if you (or Jiffy-Lube) does the service. ---------- From lopezba@atnet.at Wed Jan 31 23:24:02 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:24:02 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Thanks to Bill Caloccia I am sure everybody will join me in thanking Bill for the tremendous job he did in maintaining the LRO lists thru thick and thin. I sincerely hope that this is not the end! Peter Kutschera and I will try and talk an Austrian provider into giving LRO a temporary roof over the head, or at least a lean-to, but this will take some time and we are not sure the rather small operation can provide the necessary access for so many people. We will keep in touch with Bill for technical advice. Please, everybody out there with better posibbilities, do your best to keep this going - leaf springs and squeaky steering columns, unite for once! Once more - many, many thanks, Bill, and hope we manage to resurrect the lists together! Good rovering Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W Vienna, Austria From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 14:43:02 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:43:02 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: >My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled >maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book. I'd >rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.) Can anyone shed any >light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc? I believe there is a law in the US (may vary from state to state) which prohibits the arm twisting that you're getting from your dealer. In other words, the mfg. must honor the warranty even if scheduled maintenance is done at another facility. This applies unless the scheduled maintenence is done free of charge (as in some "all-inclusive" leases). I was made aware of this law (at least in NY) while working in a garage in high school, the independent folks love this because they can get the business that the dealer would otherwise command. I'm sure that any independent service (ha!) station or JiffyLube place will give you the low down on the laws in your area. As far as resale is concerned, there is something to be said for presenting a prospective buyer with a ream of service reciepts from new. This really would only be applicable, though, if you're going to sell the vehicle privately, on a trade-in they just look at the blue book. I don't really know if the extra cost incurred today to go to the dealer for service will be realized when you go to sell your Disco. If you consider the time value of money, it is definitely not a good proposition. A dollar today (service cost savings) is worth more than a dollar several years hence (increased resale value). As always, this is all my humble opinion. Regards, Eric Wow! My education actually came in handy for once ;) From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 31 14:43:22 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:43:22 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Full Time 4x4 With everyone wondering about the merits of full time 4x4 on the road, I thought I'd share some of my experiences with my Stage 1 (full time 4x4). Around here, many of the back roads are dirt and loose gravel in the summer and muddy or snow-packed in the winter. I drive quite fast on these roads, where the advantages of full time 4x4 are obvious. The most noticeable attribute (over the Ford Explorer and Toyota 4Runner I drive from time to time) is the neutral steering when accelerating through a turn. Both the Explorer and the Toyota need great care to keep the back end from breaking free. The Rover just rides through as on rails. In addition, when the roads are really slick, the full time 4x4 allows for deceleration with downshifting. This way, all four wheels are taking the force more or less equally. This, as opposed to braking, where the front wheels lock up prematurely or downshifting in 2wd where the rears lock up. Granted, some of these attributes can be had on a part time vehicle in 4wd but the flexibility to have this at all times is great. The highway is when this shines: most of the spin outs you see on the highway are from one of three things, either the driver plowed on the brakes (locking the front first), the driver lifted off the gas to quick (breaking traction in the rear), or the driver punched the accelerator to much (again breaking traction in the rear). The full time 4x4 reduces the possibility of two of these situations. Because the power or engine braking is distributed equally over four wheels, instead of two, the chances of breaking traction (skidding) is reduced. It still takes smooth driving to negotiate snow-packed roads but the full time 4x4 is definitely an asset...IMHO, of course. Regards, Eric BTW, the plow guys around here have a name for the most dangerous thing on the road during the winter: a Jeep Grand Cherokee with New Jersey plates :) From William Terry Wed Jan 31 18:11:02 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:11:02 -0500 (EST) From: William Terry Subject: Re. Bill's message Would someone please post Bill's msg regarding the list again. It must have been in one of the digests I deleted when I fell behind reading them. ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton From "Lee Zeltzer" Wed Jan 31 16:04:11 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:04:11 -0700 From: "Lee Zeltzer" Subject: Re: D90 Problems Andrew A. Dallas wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I'm about to bring my D90 in for its 15,000 mile service and hopefully [ truncated by lro-digester (was 65 lines)] > adallas@tiac.net > http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ > ************************************************* I have not seen any of those problems on my D90SW, but I have a speaker grill fall off and my muffler disconnect from the exhaust pipe. Guess I'm lucky! -- Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant Innovative System Design 100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605 Tucson AZ 85701 (520)791-3323 X 21 http://www.isdnet.com From Ray Harder Wed Jan 31 17:50:52 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:50:52 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Matt Turner's Moab Rally - May 1996 i got the following in the mail and called in my intent to attend. matt said the more the better (probably a limit to that, but he didn't say that). he said he is most concerned about an accurate dinner count, so, of course, RSVP. i volunteered to post to the net and he said "good idea"... if you haven't been to moab, you should consider. the rock crawling can't get better than that... ray harder (siia 88 (lulu), aka experimental) moab 1992, 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------- -- exact wording of notice -- ------------------------------------------------------------- Land Rover Rally Moab, UT May, 1996 Please join Tanner's Land Rovers in Moab, Utah for their first annual rally. On May 1, 1996 through May 4, 1996, we will be holding our first annual rally in Moab. This will be four days of family fun that will include: great off-roading, a rally, car show/swap meet, raffle, and a barbeque. This should be a great time and we look forward to seeing you there! A tentative schedule of events are as follows: Wednesday, May 1, 1996: Registration, scenic off road trip, or challenging/technical off road trip. Thursday, May 2, 1996: More off roading Friday, May 3, 1996: Rally Saturday, May 4, 1996: Car show/swap meet Barbeque/Raffle some items to be raffled: complete set of Bilstein shocks, free wheel hubs, Land Rover toys, and anything else that you might want to bring! For additional information or questions, contact Matt Tanner at 970-247-0703, or Mike Weaver at 970-884-0484. RSVP requested. Tentative barbeque price: $11.00/person. From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Tue Jan 31 18:54:17 1995 Date: Tue, 31 Jan 95 18:54:17 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News I have just returned from a lovelt trip to Florida. Saw lots of Disco's and Range Rovers. Only one D90 stopped Number 2059 a black one in the Gardens mall in west palm beach. Hopped over to Freeport in the Bahamas, no Land Rovers in sight. 'Was in a Toys R Us in West Palm and found a leego cobination pack # 1720 for $9.99 that includes a 90 type vehicle. Also got a couple of Range Roves aswell TTFN Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Jan 31 19:52:20 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:52:20 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Goodbyes? "Good bye. And thanks for all the fish." See y'all on the other side. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Bill Skidmore" 31 1996 Jan -0500 1920 Date: 31 Jan 1996 20:36:22 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: Re: What is a cresent wrench? Well, John has it partly right. Skidmore's guide to all you ever wanted to know about common wrenches and = their misues says: Crescent wrench is an adjustable wrench, with smooth jaws, that uses a = worm gear to adjust the jaw depth. The jaw opening is usually between = 0-45 degrees off center with the handle. Spanner was used on those fittings, usually electrical, as in alternator, = etc, which had ribs (splines) spaced at approximately the same interval = as the corner on a hex nut. We used to use them often for the electrical = connections on military vehicles (kinda the justification to buy = specialized tools that will only work on one model of vehicle, the same = as most new cars). Pipe Wrench and Monkey Wrench are very similar, in that they also use a = worm gear to adjust the jaw width, but the jaws are perpendicular to the = centerline of the handle. The difference is the the Monkey Wrench uses = toothed jaws, and the monkey wrench uses smooth jaws. Pipe wrench used = most often on hex-sided pipe fittings. Monkey wrench used on pipes (it = grips the pipe because of the teeth). In many cases a monkey wrencg can = be interchanges with a good pair of channel lock pliars. Just depends on = how much torque needs to be applied. Boy, talk about anally retentive - I have to get a life quick! Bill ------ From: Owner-LRO@uk.stratus.com, Wed, Jan 31, 1996 ------ From jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess) Wed Jan 31 17:56:59 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:56:59 -0800 From: jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us (john hess) Subject: bombing for info Howdy, It's me bombing everyone for some info. Who had all the cool underbody protection put on his d90? I read all the email but deleted it as it just didn't apply to my dormobile. Now I'm thinking that the right photos and text would be an awesome article for the AW. Could I have the correct person email me? TIA, jfhess@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Jan 31 17:33:18 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:33:18 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: stuck in lake Tahoe/4wd system -Reply I'd say that the LR (Disco/RR) has some advantages that the Limited Slip 4-Runner doesn't. Better tires (for snow & ice) depending and better (and more) weight distribution. So "better or worse" is hard to tell because it depends on the conditions. Not the least of which is the driver as other's have pointed out. I was on a "snow run" and the Disco's outperformed (less wheel spin and more efficient progress) the pickups & 4-runners with and without lockers. I think in that case the tires and weight distribution (i.e. light rear-end in pickups) had a lot to do with it. Of course a Disco with a lockers would be tops! But as always, YMMV. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Jan 31 22:23:35 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:23:35 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Take a dip...in molten zinc ! To all interested in hot dips... here it is again: Baltimore Galvanizing (who thought THAT name up? ) 7110 Quad AV Baltimore, MD 410-288-1188 Bill Adams 3Dmentia computer animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington, MD 20895 301-949-9475 '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel ...all there From stretch@vol.net Thu Feb 1 12:36:49 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 12:36:49 PST From: stretch@vol.net Subject: member list Sorry for 11th hour plea, but could someone forward the members list to me...I've been having trouble...I'm sure it's me. Any assist appreciated. Bye everyone...I'll watch for new info. Thanks to all who have helped out with info, etc. ------------------------------------- Name: jcollins E-mail: stretch@vol.net Temp assgn: Hong Kong From "John Y. Liu" Wed Jan 31 22:57:37 1996 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:57:37 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Series: Advice On Painting Frame? I've decided to paint the axles and frame of my 109. I painted the swivel housings during the recent front end rebuild and now the axles look crummy by comparison. After I paint them the frame will look needful. And so on. I was planning as follows: Crawl under truck; Use wire brush and scraper to remove all dirt, crud, scale, etc; Degrease liberally; Repeat until satisfied; Clean out From Mark Perry Thu Feb 1 02:15:32 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:15:32 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: Snow Rovers It was -40C when I left work at 1230 a.m. here in Winterpeg. Even with block and battery pre-heaters, the thing took a bit of choke and throttle to get running, cranking with clutch out. Once going, it was, as the saying is, as slow as molasses (or 80W90 Hypoy C) in January. (Castrol 10W40 in the engine, BTW) Our more snowbound eastern LROs might be interested in the photo ad in the current Old Car Trader. It reads: BRITISH LAND ROVER - Will run. Complete with snow plow. $995. 705-497-6189 North Bay In the photo is what appears to be a SerII or 'early' IIA 88" with pickup truck cab, indeed with a big plow blade on front and plow lights on the cab. Beside it in the photo is a 'late' IIA 88" SW, with tropical roof and luggage rack. Hard to tell more from the pix, but they both look pretty straight. Who knows? BTW, North Bay is about 250 km/180 mi, or so, due north of Toronto, Ont., for those wondering. Cheers, Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Thu Feb 1 01:53:10 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:53:10 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Repair guide for Series IIa or III available? Curtis asks.. >As a prospective D90 or Series IIa/III owner (this year, I >keep telling myself) I'd like to know if a do-it-yourself >repair guide exists? There is a Haynes manual available for the Ser II,IIA and III. You may also be able to get the "factory" manuals, but they are a bit pricey. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue #:-}> From Mark Perry Thu Feb 1 05:05:15 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:05:15 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: folklore, towing, lists (fwd) Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Feb 1 11:48:35 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:48:35 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Its That Man Again! Which header will be *totally* lost on all but the most ancient,and in the UK at that.Oh Well..... The man in question is once more Mr Grafton,who has favoured yours truly with more correspondence. Dated 19/1/96,the latest Aerogram states that they have finally got both Land Rovers out of hock(ie out of their respective shipping containers in Mombasa) at a cost of UK 350 quid *each*.Andy remarks "ouch" which I thought fairly restrained under the circumstances.The group have sold much equipment,such as all their power tools,generator,etc and therefore have enough money to continue the trip,albeit for a short(ish) distance. During the passage through Kenya they were *given* a gearbox complete, including bellhousing,by a bloke that just happened to have it lying about. It is,apparently,strapped to the snow plough mounting,and recieves envious glances from other overlanders,and serves to dampen the front suspension. The 'box serial no is 361355990,stamped BL all over it,and Andy doesnt think its a UK box.Anyone know? New route plan is:Kyela(top of Malawi),length of Malawi,,through Tete corridor through Mozambique,into Zimbabwe,then tro' Bethbridge(sp?,writing not clear) into SA.And on to Capetown.Those in these parts of the world look out for two 109's one with leading gearbox,reg no LHW 283Y. No vehicular problems have been encountered thus far,except for the inability of a S111 headlamp switch to survive intact and funtional for longer than 3 hours.However,the group bought Lucas fuel filters in Kenya,and as it is put, they anticipate that this may be the kiss of death. He reports that driving speeds of the locals are horrendous,a 109" passed them at about 50mph on a road they considered suitable for about 15-20mph. There are apparently lots and lots of"*totally* shagged" Stage 1's about. "Have V8 and lead foot"seems to be the attitude. He ends with the comment"Tell Charlie W that if he ever gets to Africa,his tyres will be worth nearly as much as his Land Rover".I hope that means something to someone,as it means bugger all to me,but I pass it on..... Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Thu Feb 1 12:20:35 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:20:35 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: folklore, towing, lists (fwd) >The aircraft maker built the CL215 flying boat water bomber, which has >been sold to many countries, including Spain. In 1977, one of the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >guesses on the weight of the flying boat fuselage, but the whole plane >weighs 28,353# empty. Just goes to show.The rule of towing with a Land Rover is"Hook it up.If it wont move,its too heavy." Another example:Friend of mine was *pushing* an eight ton traction engine with his Defender 110 Tdi.Uphill.He thought that the engine was getting a little close to his bonnet.The push pole had bent.Defender was OK,though.He later said that he had pulled an eighteen tonner out of its shed with an 88" petrol. I beleive him.He would. Those flying baots are almost as tough.There is a photo in a book on water bombers of one which landed in a field.Wheels up.Ploughed a bit of a furrow,but was otherwise undamaged.Nice aircraft. Cheers Mike Rooth From Andy Dingley Thu Feb 01 12:16:43 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 12:16:43 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Re: Collywobbles On Sunday, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote: > > My S-III would develop a serious steering wobble, > > I did a field change on the steering damper, > Park you Series III & find out what the real cause of your wobble > is! Your car did not come with a steering dampener and > should not need one to keep from wobbling . Leaf sprung Landies certainly do have a steering damper. The steering relay unit (the thing that "turns the corner" in the two steering links) contains an internal friction damper. If you keep the oil level in this thing topped up, it should last for ever. Of course, no-one ever does, so it tends to wear out. Wear is usually due to water ingress causing rust in the lower shaft bearing surface. Major machining and a rebuild kit (new bronze thrust washers) will fix this, but it's easier and cheaper to get a brand new unit (Craddocks have a shedful of ex-military spares, all beautifully wax wrapped and quite cheap) Getting the thing out is either easy or impossible, depending on the amount of chassis rust. It's a tight push fit into a tube that goes through the chassis rail. 28lb sledge hammers are a favoured tool, but I've also heard of people putting a jack underneath and lifting the whole vehicle with it. Once it's out, follow the service manual to see how to dismantle it. It's a simple job involving a soft mallet and a sock ! (complete with pictures in the manual). You wrap the unit in the sock, drive the shaft out through one end and catch all the enclosed flying springs in your sock. Putting it back together is impossible unless you have too many fingers for any reasonable human being. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk If all it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with typewriters, how come AOL haven't written any Shakespeare yet ? From "barnett childress" Thu Feb 1 7:50:04 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 7:50:04 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:RE: Discovery Maintenance I have always done my own oil and filter changes. My dealer LRMW has done the 7.5K and 15K service. They stamp the book and discount the cost of the oil, filter, and labor. Barnett Childress 95 D90 From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Feb 01 07:55:17 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 07:55:17 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Re: Frame Painting Assuming you're priming the spots that go down to bare metal, use an aerosol so that the primer coat isn't too thick. Rustoleum damp-proof red or yellow zinc chromate should be fine. Would suggest Red Devil black polyurethane, available in quarts for the topcoat. I used it on some exposed exterior steel on the house that was scraped down 7 years ago, and it's still hanging tough. Take this opportunity and be sure to put *2* coats of black paint on! It's easier than doing the 2nd coat later and having to re-prep. After paint is all hard, you might wanna spray some undercoating (from any auto DIY shop) if you are going for protection, or not if you're going for looks. Wear a disposable dust mask when spraying under the vehicle. Regards, Hank (Ser II 109) From "barnett childress" Thu Feb 1 7:59:25 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 7:59:25 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Snow Rovers Hi all, Wow it was cold this morning in Sturbridge Ma. For the first time I heard some strange noises when I fired up the Defender, and the oil light actually stayed on for a few seconds! Thank god for synthetics! Barnett Childress From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Thu Feb 1 05:10:22 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:10:22 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: '84 109 V8 brakes Does anyone know the differences in brake systems between a 2-1/4 L 109 and a series III 109 V8??? I know that the later model uses a dual power brake system, but I don't know what changes may have been made at the wheels. Anyone know?? TeriAnn twakeman@eworld.com From Easton Trevor Thu Feb 01 08:16:00 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 08:16:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: The colonies and translation of terms To continue the Crescent wrench/adjustable spanner thread. Footprints (UK) are the equivalent of Channellocks (NA) A wrench (UK) is a device that grips the item being turned by mechanical advantage eg Mole (UK) wrench or Vice Grips (UK), Pipe wrench (US) or Stilsons (UK) A spanner (UK) is a device that fits by "Spanning" the item being turned and fitting it precisely. North America with the usual econimy of terms employ the word Wrench for any turning device. Many times the specific manufacturers name becomes the generic identifier, as we drink from our Thermos, clean up with the Hoover (Dirt or Spies) or adjust our nuts with a Crescent. Trevor Easton From crash@merl.com Thu Feb 1 08:55:05 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:55:05 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Monkey vs. Pipe wrenches No, a monkey wrench has smooth jaws, and a pipe wrench has toothed jaws. How do I know this? Well, for one thing, I have a genuine "Monkey" wrench, circa 1912, in my antique tools bin. It even has a little monkey stamped right into it. It's not a very convenient wrench but it sure makes a good hammer. Second, a pipe wrench is used to grip _pipe_. Not hex fittings, unless you want to chew the fittings all up with the sharp pipe-wrench teeth. The pipe wrench has the sharp teeth to grip and turn threaded (but round) pieces of pipe. Smooth-jawed wrenches can't grip a pipe to turn it. (let's ignore strap wrenches for now, OK?) Oh, and the aluminium RIDGID brand pipe wrenches go great with Land Rovers. "Gauranteed forever" -Bill From u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Thu Feb 1 14:19:24 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:19:24 GMT From: u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Subject: Series III overheating. I am the proud owner of a SIII 88" petrol (php414m). Though I have a problem she overheats, badly. I have tried all the usual flaws, the thermostat works, water circulates there is no leak, and the radiator seems to be extremely hot. I bought a new temperature sensor for the engine, does this have to be calibrated? I blew a head gasket not too long ago, so I know it is overheating but there is no apparant cause. On another note for all Lr owners in southern Uk (Surrey/Hampshire/Berkshire) steer clear of a company called Kingsley Cross Country (formerly Rapid Rovers) they may cause you more problems than you started with. They have tried to pass a second hand part off as new, to me they have also supplied me with a 15Lb per square " radiator cap for a 2.2 4cy SIII (rather than the necessary cap which is nearly a third of the pressure that they supplied to me. They supplied me with one for a V8. They run a so called "Garage" and they can't tell the difference between a 4cy and a V8. I could have blown my cooling system at that pressure. When I tried to complain politely, they couldn't have been more unplesent if they had tried. Conclusion: Steer well Clear! From Ray Harder Thu Feb 1 08:27:39 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:27:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: Series: Advice On Painting Frame? On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, John Y. Liu wrote: < ...snip... After I paint them the frame will look needful. And so on. < I was planning as follows: Crawl under truck; Use wire brush and scraper to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > Since my frame is unrusted and I live in dry L.A., is it important to treat < the inside of the box sections? If yes, how would I do it? john, i did this a couple of years ago. i felt it is a good use of my time. i scraped some with a putty knife and wire brush, then went down to the car wash with about $10 in quarters. i went late at night and took a jack and jack stands. wore old clothes. jacked up the rover and put it onto jackstands. took off the front wheels, and later the back wheels. i crawled under there and spent all my money removing oilcrud. when i finished, i was all wet, but the rover was clean as a whistle. i used a small artist brush -- long handle, about 1/2 inches of bristle and took my time. and yes, i used rustoleum satin enamel. it looks good when i look under there and it protects the outside. i have good intentions of doing a waxoyl job on the inside, but to date (thats 3 years), i haven't managed to get started on it. imho, the outside is important for appearance and some rusting appears there, but most of the rusting is on the inside. in la, probably not a problem. ccray and lulu (siia 88 -- she is oily again, but thats oil over paint) From "John C. White, III" Thu Feb 1 06:37:31 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:37:31 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance Reread the manual that the dealer stamps, Hal. There are a lot of things that the dealer does at various intervals that if not performed do void the warranty. Some of them require tools and equipment that most ordinary mortals don't have at their disposal. I change the oil in my Discovery more often than the manual says, but as long as its under warranty, I'll pay the price and let the dealer do it. If you're planning on selling your truck, you will probably be able to command a higher price if you have all of your receipts showing that the factory's maintenance schedule was followed. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 15:39 31.01.96 -0500, HalatGRM@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] >Hal Hunnicutt >'96 Discovery From "John C. White, III" Thu Feb 1 06:37:44 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:37:44 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: Discovery Maintenance I always check to see if the dealer stamped the book or not. If he didn't, I ask him to, but I'm compulsive that way. Oh yes, and I do keep all the receipts, including the off-schedule oil changes. Cheers! John At 14:35 31.01.96 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >I've had my Disco in to the dealer for all scheduled maintenance as well as [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)] > [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery > \_/ \_/ N7UMU From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 1 09:38:21 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:38:21 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Snow Comes, No-Claims Bonus goes On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, LUCKING Richard wrote: > > Erm, isn't that illegal. Surely it's the same effect as having > > no insurance. Trivia: Today, 98 years ago, the first automobile insurance policy was sold to a doctor in Buffalo, New York. The premium was $11 per year. [source: CBC radio] From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 96 Feb EST 1909 Date: 1 Feb 96 9:27:32 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Wierd wrench for O/D shaft? In the documentation I have for my Fairey O/D, it calls for the torque on the mainshaft nut to be at 100 lb/ft. This is not a problem... I have a 3-foot pipe.....8*) However, whatthehell kind of a socket is necessary for that whacko nut, and is it available in the Real World (tm)? Or. more to the point, which Rover god do I have to throw money at THIS time?.....8*) aj"I hate whacko tools"r From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 96 Feb EST 1909 Date: 1 Feb 96 9:57:47 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Series III overheating. One conclusion and one alone: Box it up and ship it to me in the States.....that'll fix it. Seriously, the two things I'd look at there is timing and mixture. if she's running very lean this could cause overheating. Do the mixture adjustments on the carburettor. Timing could be out, as well, causing the same symptoms. Too far advanced can do this, as the fuel fires too early in the cycle, producing back-pressure and loads of waste heat that's got to go somewhere. Make sure you're not over-advanced....try resetting to about 3BTDC or even TDC - if it doesn't over heat at those settings then you can start advancing till it runs right. When you put in the head gasket did you check the head for warpage? Alan From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Feb 1 10:37:11 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:37:11 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Tours in AZ You wrote "In a couple of weeks, I will be heading to Phoenix with the girls for some sun and fun. I have a listing of "Jeep Tours" in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area. We would like to take a "western desert adverture, etc" tour. Does anyone in that area know any of these companies that are listed and if so, do any of them have Land Rovers? God forbid if I should have to ride in a Jeep!!!" Most of the jeeps are sufficient... I don't think they cover anything other than the smooth dirt roads. There was a rumor that Enterprise had purchased some Discovery's for rental but you have to bring your own latte..... I would give Enterprise a call and check on a day rental. It would probably be cheaper than a rental for 3 ro 4 people too. Gerry Phoenix w/ RAIN today!!!! From "Tom Rowe" Thu Feb 1 09:59:54 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:59:54 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Wierd wrench for O/D shaft? Alan asks: > In the documentation I have for my Fairey O/D, it calls for the torque on the mainshaft nut to be at 100 lb/ft. This is not a problem... I have a 3-foot pipe.....8*)> Come on Alan, 100lb/ft isn't that much. A good torque Crescent, uh, I mean wrench, will do it without the 3' pipe. < However, whatthehell kind of a socket is necessary for that whacko nut, and is it available in the Real World (tm)?> I've never seen the socket to fit it other than in the special tools list. However, I recall some oddball sockets in the Snap-On catalog that looked as if they might work. Personally I used (shhhh, this is a secret, don't tell a soul) a punch and hammer. Ouch! That was hard to say. < Or. more to the point, which Rover god do I have to throw money at THIS time?.....8*)> The special tools god, I think. If you find one, let me know. I'd like to get one too. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Thu Feb 1 15:55:35 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:55:35 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Re: Its That Man Again! >Tell Charlie W that if he ever gets to Africa,his >tyres will be worth nearly as much as his Land Rover".I hope that means >something to someone,as it means bugger all to me,but I pass it on..... In 1988 I went out to Kenya to follow the Safari Rally. I hired a Suzuki SJ1000 (All the Land Rovers had been snaffled by the world press). The tyres on this thing derived any grip they had from the fabric surface! I asked politely if they would't mind replacing them with the rubber tread variety, as I had some serious mountain climbing to do. The best they could find did have some rubber but precious little tread, and they just had to do. The locals are to be admired for their ability to undertake driving in some pretty bad conditions without the benefit of the latest technology from Goodrich, Goodyear et al. I guess this would make a snazzy set of all terrain boots worth a lot. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From Gene Sparks Thu Feb 1 08:11:37 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:11:37 -0800 From: Gene Sparks Subject: Baja Trip Anybody out there Interested in taking a trip down to Baja this summer? = I would very much like to go but will not go alone. My schedule is open = and would like to make the trip 6-9 days long. Still plenty of time to = organize. Ahhh sundrenched beaches, world class fishing, cheap beer, convoy of = Land Rovers.... Could it possibly get any better? Gene 96 Discovery (with character dent) Aberdeen WA From dritchie@access.mountain.net Thu Feb 1 11:36:52 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:36:52 -0500 From: dritchie@access.mountain.net Subject: Insurance for Rallies and Meets We (Blue Ridge Land Rover Club) are thinking of how to get the best insurance coverage for events. And suggestions on how over clubs are handling insurance for their events would be helpful to us. If you have some background to share please let me know. Dave Ritchie - Discovery (White) From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 1 12:39:37 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:39:37 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Insurance for Rallies and Meets On Thu, 1 Feb 1996 dritchie@access.mountain.net wrote: > We (Blue Ridge Land Rover Club) are thinking of how to get the best insurance > coverage for events. And suggestions on how over clubs are handling > insurance for their events would be helpful to us. >. The purpose of insurance is to cover the ass of the club membership if anything goes wrong, however, you still have to deal with the fact that the entire membership could be sued. What Ottawa Valley Land Rovers has done: OVLR Inc. is a federally incorporated body under Canadian Federal Law. Federal incorporation was pursued for several reasons. OVLR membership exists in most Canadian provinces. Ontario incorporation would have made things slightly messy for events in another province. OVLR is in the Ottawa River valley, one side which is Ontario, the other Quebec. We hold events on both sides of the river. With incorporation, the membership of OVLR is protected against a lawsuit. You can sue the corporation, but what will you get in the way of assets that have a significant value? With the membership covered, the inclination to sue the membership, where one may have significant assets (house, etc. Deep Pocket syndrome...) is greatly dimished. Insurance was a great problem for many other clubs besides OVLR. OVLR, in conjunction with other British car clubs have formed the British Car Council. The BCC is also an incorporated body. The BCC obtains insurance for all member clubs. Going under the addage of strength in numbers, it costs individual clubs little to subscribe to the insurance policy. The insurance covers any accident at an event so long as it does not involve a moving vehicle. Under current law, any accident involving a motor vehicle is handled by the insurance attached to that vehicle(s). None of the above protects the "club" from negligence. The membership & Executive must still take all reasonable precautions against accidents and mishaps. They must be able to demonstrate this fact. If they can, they will have an easy time of it. How this helps for you in the United States is entirely a different matter. I would suggest contacting VTR (Vintage Triumph Register) or some of the much larger British marque clubs to see how they handle things. As you can see, the British marque clubs getting together in Canada has helped matters quite a bit. Trivia: The move to incorporate OVLR and later the BCC was all becasue of one unfortunate accident. The MotorSport Club of Ottawa holds (held) ice races every year. Three years ago they foolishly decided to hold them on the Ottawa River (unlike the US southwest, rivers up here can be rather large and have very high flow rates. A 2:1 ratio (spring/autumn) flow is common). On the Friday evening holes were bored in the ice to determine thickness. All was safe. Early the next morning (there had been a slight snowfall) truckes were sent out onto the ice to clear off the course. Eight feet from one of the boreholes a pickup (father and daughter) went through the ice. Both drowned. There still exists a legal liability for the event organisers, the MSO Executive, and the collective membership. The President of MSO has had to give up his business thus far. Since he was a sole proprietor, his assets were already covered off in case something went wrong with the business. This gave OVLR, and the other British marque car clubs great incentive to deal with liability questions, questions that had been discussed for ten years or more, but never acted upon. Probably not much help, but the rationale behind the question "why are you *not* incorporated" is... especially in a country that is lawsuit happy... Rgds, From JEPurnell@aol.com Thu Feb 1 12:50:07 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:50:07 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Rover engineer want ads on the Web Site...want to move to England? A buddy of mine found this article in an industry magazine, thought youse rovers guys would get a kick out of reading it. I already got an application previously from the LR web site, but wasn't yet ready to move to Merry Olde England. I wonder if they would have paid to ship my Defender "home." John, Madison, WIsconsin 94 D90 ======================GLOBAL CONTENT================================== LABOR: ROVER CASTS ITS 'NET' Aided by parent BMW, Rover is embarking on a major expansion of its R&D facilities. The company is doubling its Caydon design center and hiring up to 300 new engineering staff members. Bruce Macauley, Director of Electronics and Control Systems for Rover, began considering alternatives when ads in the engineering press failed to bring in sufficient replies from the right applicants. He decided that the people he was seeking were probably plugged into the Internet, and used in-house talent to create Rover's web-site. Although the other European manufacturers, notably Fiat, have web-sites, they are mainly marketing-led and designed and operated by advertising and PR agencies. Rover's, created specifically to attract new engineers, is probably unique. Macauley says the set-up and operation of the site, due to go on-line again early this year, was definitely "worth it intellectually" for his department. His group had to ensure the site's name was unique so a third party could not rent it back to Rover for a profit. Next, the department's specialists created the contents and hypertext links. Originally, the Rover site was rich in illustrations, but the time required to download them was putting 'visitors' off (unlike the U.S., local calls are charged in Europe). When the new version becomes active, Macauley joked, "we may start with the application form as the first screen!" According to Macauley, the investment in the site, at around $1,500, was cost-effective compared to traditional media. Soon, Rover's first "webbed" recruit, an Italian software specialist, will have taken her place with the company. Rover's web-site is: http://www.rover.co.uk -Ian Norris From PurnellJE@aol.com Thu Feb 1 12:52:51 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:52:51 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 Problems-comments on the list of irregularities:: Andy, your "irregularities" (problems? Oh no sir, these are not problems...) have occasioned themselves upon my early Defender, a 1994, in varying degrees: >Here's the list: >Driver Seat > - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out. > - Sticky Seat adjustments. Both the recline and forward/backward >movement is very stiff. ==================Passenger seat rattling badly, parts fell out of seat back. ==================Driver seat recline adjustment arm super stiff also, raelly gotta yank it to break it free. >Rear Door > - Rusty top hinge bolt > - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and >down) ====================REar door has a clunk in it somewhere, mabe just with all those simple hinges. >Rollbar > - Padding is cracking =======================Yup, mine was awful, replaced completely, and under warranty. >Heater Blower > - switch is VERY stiff ==================Stiff too, I support my right elbow on my knee to get leverage to operate it while ==================driving. >Hood Release > - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the >none too distant > future. ===========It will break soon, rest assured. Mine has about 2 more pulls. There appears to be a warrant ===========fix for this, new stainless steel cable and different routing. >Passenger Window (Hard Top) > - Much more wind noise than the driver's side. ======My whole truck has much more wind noise. >Driver Window (Hard Top) > - The front pane must be opened befor the rear pane can be opened. =========Yes, isn't that interesting. both my door tops are that way. No explanation from me. John, Wisconsin 94 D90 From Jeff Gauvin Thu Feb 1 11:01:04 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 11:01:04 MST From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: D90 problemsRE: D90 problems Andrew A. Dallas (adallas@tiac.net) has these problems with his '95 D90: * Driver Seat * - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out. * - Sticky Seat adjustments. Both the recline and forward/backward * movement is very stiff. No seat problems to speak of, but the passenger seat squeaks a bit. * Rear Taillights * - Water in lenses. * - Running lights don't function (probably caused by the water) Known '95 round tail light problem. My '94 is ok. * Rear Door * - Rusty top hinge bolt * - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and * down) Yeah, I've got some slightly rusty hinge pins. The rattle is probably the tire carrier; there is a "bump stop" that might need to be adjusted (on door itself - it looks like a bolt with a rubber bumper on it). Other sources of noise in the general vicinity: lower seatbelt mounts (if you have the rear seat), speaker boxes. * Fuse Box * - Fuse holder not installed Nope. * Rollbar * - Padding is cracking Yes. Just had my rear hoop replaced under warantee. * Front Headlight Fixture * - the right side panel is held on with screws which are rusting. * The left is fine. Nope. * Heater Blower * - switch is VERY stiff I think that's "normal" -- just how stiff is yours, if you don't mind my asking :-) * Hood Release * - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the * none too distant future. Yup. Plan to have mine replaced some day. * Passenger Window (Hard Top) * - Much more wind noise than the driver's side. Your hardtop is mis-aligned. Mine used to be the same; I could see light where the door wasn't even contacting the weather strip. But when the top was removed and reinstalled (to replace the roll bar) the problem went away. * Driver Window (Hard Top) * - The front pane must be opened befor the rear pane can be opened. Sometimes have a similar problem. I'm scheduled to get my driver's side door top replaced due to a bad locking cam (was fixed once, dealer decided to replace entire door top than fix cam a second time). Let me add these problems with my '94 (13,800 mi) to the list: * head gasket leaking coolant onto exhaust manifold (replaced head gasket) * "rear side window panels" on hardtop cracking (replaced) * passenger side door latch assembly sticks when hot (will probably replace) * leaky oil pan gasket (replaced) * loose valve covers (re-torqued) * bad coolant hose clamp - leaking (replaced) * cracking fender-grill/heater-intake (replacement on order) * soft top snap came un-rivited (even though I have never used the snap!). Dealer re-rivited - but it's coming out again... * cubby box latch kept coming loose. I ripped the whole thing out and put in a new Tuffy Deluxe Stereo Console. The dealer has been very good about fixing all these things, and though it seems at times like I'm getting a new car one piece at a time, I think once everything is sorted out she'll be a good vehicle that will last "forever." With the reported low profit margin on these vehicles and the seemingly high warantee claim rate, it's no wonder LR is pulling the 90 out of the US! Still a satisfied customer... -- Jeffrey J. Gauvin email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com Symbios Logic Inc. Voice: 719-573-3563 1635 Aeroplaza Dr. FAX: 719-573-3824 Colorado Springs, CO 80916 From olsenc@ichips.intel.com Thu Feb 1 10:32:10 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:32:10 -0800 From: olsenc@ichips.intel.com Subject: Disco & full-time 4wd Hello: I've been following this list for almost one month now. I figured I would observe the discussions here in hopes of choosing the most suitable (for me) SUV someday. Needless to say, the Disco is something that I'm considering. Enough introduction, on to the question: Someone here mentioned that the Disco has a limited-slip center diff, which allows a limited difference between the two drivelines. I see this as a simple, but very adequate, solution to the hazards of road travel where the road conditions vary from dry pavement to sheer ice. What I want to know is, how is the power individually applied to all four wheels w/o front and rear limited slip diffs (or lockers)? It would seem to me that you would have only one "drive" wheel on each axle. Is it a rear-right/front- left type of drivetrain? I'm very curious about this since the technical details of the 4wd systems seem to get really glossed over in the reviews and in company literature. I also recall someone saying that limited-slip differentials are not highly recommended. Any comments? Thanks, -Clint '84 Oldsmopile Cutlass Cierra (Grandpa's old car, but the price was right) From "barnett childress" Thu Feb 1 13:57:19 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 13:57:19 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:D90 problems/Not me! Geeee!! It sounds like you guys, (John Purnell/Jeff Gavin) are experiencing some of the traditional Rover "quirks" yourselves? I already E-mailed Andy directly and told him I have had no problems whatsoever with my Defender! Everything is tight, no rattles, no faulty parts, and no oil or coolant leaks observed after 17K trouble free miles to date! I've been averaging about 25 MPG on the highway at an average speed of 105 MPH, (I reprogrammed the ECU of course), and I have to constantly turn off the heater because it's so powerful I am constantly breaking out in a sweat! Wow! I must be the "OTHER" Land Rover Defender owner that has a "Perfect" vehicle! (I read a post about another one) but mine is not for sale! Oh well good luck to all of you! Ha...Ha...Ha... Barnett (Owner of the "other" perfect NAS D90) Childress From PurnellJE@aol.com Thu Feb 1 15:05:12 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:05:12 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Snow Rovers...and cold D90s In a message dated 96-02-01 11:03:40 EST, you write: >Hi all, >Wow it was cold this morning in Sturbridge Ma. For the first time I heard [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Barnett >Childress Yeah Barnett, me too. I get a whining, like the alternator bearing is dry, or the powersteering pump is complaining, then it slowly dies down and goes away. Also, even with synthetic Mobil1 10W30, my oil light stays on for much longer than I would expect. Kinda concerned me but I don't hear any lifters clacking dry, I just wonder if the tap for the guage pickup is at the end of the oil gallery? Not thank god for synthetics...thank god for WARRANTIES!! John, WiscoRover @ -5 degrees F. 94 Defender90 From PurnellJE@aol.com Thu Feb 1 15:04:55 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:04:55 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance In a message dated 96-01-31 18:02:04 EST, you write: >>My dealer stressed the importance of bringing my Disco in for scheduled >>maintenance and getting the "official" stamp in my maintenance book. I'd >>rather do my own simple maintenance (oil changes, etc.) Can anyone shed any >>light on how important this is to warranty, resale, etc? >I believe there is a law in the US (may vary from state to state) which >prohibits the arm twisting that you're getting from your dealer. In other >words, the mfg. must honor the warranty even if scheduled maintenance is done >at another facility. This applies unless the scheduled maintenence is done free of >charge (as in some "all-inclusive" leases). >From page 15 in my Passport to Service book for my 94 Def90, under owner's warranty responsibilites, it states: "As the vehicle owner, you are responsible for the perf of the req maint listed in your serv booklet. LRNA reccomends you keep all record and reciepts covering your veh. maint. but LRNA cannot deny warranty solely for the lack of records or reciepts, or for your failure to ensure the performance of all scheduled maintenance." more... "As the owner, you shouuld also be aware that LRNA may deny you warranty coverage if your vehicle or a part has failed due to abuse, neglect, improper maint., or unapproved modifications." The dealer won't see my vehicle for any of the scheduled services because I do them. I stamp them with my "Purnell Enterprises" stamp from my business in calif. Unless I can't handle the repair, the only time the dealer will see my Def is for warranty work. I agree with the idea that it is a good idea for an experienced technician to see the vehicle every now and then, or maybe every time anything is in need of repair, because they will know to look for "special irregularities" like those manifold nuts that like to disappear, or other problems that only someone in the service bulletin loop would know. But, overall, I like the feeling of seeing/doing all the work done myself, especially because if you need to do anything out in the field, gaining that working knowledge of the truck in a more relaxed atmosphere like regular servicing, would be very valuable. I haven't even had the truck a year, so I don't know my way around it well enough yet, hence even more reason to do the work myself. Granted, with work schedules, it may be wonderful to just drop it off and have things done. Life is a compromise. John, Wisconsin 94D90 From PurnellJE@aol.com Thu Feb 1 15:05:14 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:05:14 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance In a message dated 96-02-01 11:56:26 EST, you write: >Reread the manual that the dealer stamps, Hal. There are a lot of things >that the dealer does at various intervals that if not performed do void the >warranty. Some of them require tools and equipment that most ordinary >mortals don't have at their disposal. John, any specific examples of what these services may be, this sounds very odd to me. JOhn., From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Thu Feb 1 12:16:42 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:16:42 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Series III overheating. Ben Have you flushed the radiator and engine block? Sediment can build up & hinder cooling. Also, your engine could run hot if the timing is off or if the carb is running too lean, a real problem with Weber single venturi carbs. You have the 4 cyl pertol. There is a passage coming off the thermostat housing that bipases the radiator. This it to keep water in circulation within the engine and away from the radiator untill the engine warms up. The correct thermostat for your car has a skirt that closes the bipass as the thermostat opens. This forces all the water through the radiator. If you have a skirtless thermostat part of the water will flow through the radiator but a lot will bipass it causing overheating. Good luck finding the problem TeriAnn From K Schmidt Thu Feb 1 15:25:35 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 15:25:35 EST From: K Schmidt Subject: Land Rover 3D picture I got a 3D calendar for x-mas and earlier this week I was quite surprised to see this series II or IIa 109 pickup! you can see it at... http://www.rmc.ca/~s20845/3d.html Warning this may be a very frustrating experience trying to see if you have not seen "magic eye" pictures before! :) Kurt From Mark Perry Thu Feb 1 15:02:53 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:02:53 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: Re: folklore, towing, lists (fwd) On towing with LRs, including flying boats, MIke Rooth noted: > Those flying baots are almost as tough.There is a photo in a book on > water bombers of one which landed in a field.Wheels up.Ploughed a bit of > a furrow,but was otherwise undamaged.Nice aircraft. I didn't mention, but in the Spanish case, they had to write the plane off: bet the LR is still running (It was in Fuenterrabia) Regards> > > water bombers of one which landed in a field.Wheels up.Ploughed a bit of > a furrow,but was otherwise undamaged.Nice aircraft. From David Rosenbaum Thu Feb 1 13:11:02 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:11:02 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: D-90 'features', not problems Since all of us D-90 owners are going to spend a lot of time "in the box," we'd better "get our minds right" (phrases borrowed from "Cool Hand Luke": > * Driver Seat > * - Broken spring in the back causing nasty pointy springs to stick out. FEATURE: Seat-back stimulator helps prevent driver from snoozing off while driving on flat, straight highways > * Rear Taillights > * - Water in lenses FEATURE: Secret supply of emergency water for washing small wounds or soothing a parched mouth > * Rear Door > * - Rusty top hinge bolt > * - Rattle (probably caused by rusty bolt allowing door to move up and > * down) FEATURES: 1) Top hinge bolt color-coded (rust) to speed re-assembly in the case of an unexpected field repair. 2) "Play" engineered into rear door mounts allows rear door to act as a mechanical "back up alarm," with no electrical mechanism that might fail. > * Fuse Box > * - Fuse holder not installed FEATURE: This type of fuse box virtually eliminates the need to replace fuses. Unauthorized use of vehicle is prevented (so is authorized use...) > * Rollbar > * - Padding is cracking FEATURE: Source of synthetic "crumbs" for marking one's trail when off-pavement. Unlike bread crumbs, the roll bar padding bits are less likely to be eaten by wildlife or to dissolve in rain or puddles. > * Front Headlight Fixture > * - the right side panel is held on with screws which are rusting. > * - The left is fine. FEATURE: Additional color coding (rust) to help speed re-assembly in case of field repair. > * Heater Blower > * - switch is VERY stiff FEATURE: Part of Land Rover's unique on-board fitness equipment (see below) > * Hood Release > * - cable is VERY stiff. I'm worried that the cable will break in the > * none too distant future. FEATURES: Stiff cable also provided as part of on-board fitness equipment. In addition, the built-in "fear of breakage" feature prepares the Land Rover owner's mind to deal with potential challenges on- and off-road > * Passenger Window (Hard Top) > * - Much more wind noise than the driver's side. FEATURE:Balanced cabin acoustics. Because the driver's ears are closer to the left (driver's) window, the passenger window/hard top fit has ben engineered to allow more wind noise and thus provide a more *balanced* noise for the driver > * Driver Window (Hard Top) > * - The front pane must be opened before the rear pane can be opened. FEATURE: AntiTheft device. Since most intrusions through windows into locked vehicles with front sliding two pane windows which were left unlocked are done by sliding the rear pane forward, the unique Land Rover described above may prevent such entry. > * head gasket leaking coolant onto exhaust manifold (replaced head > gasket) FEATURE: Failsafe coolant check. After the engine warms up, the *absence* of steam from under the hood signals dangerously low or absent engine coolant > * "rear side window panels" on hardtop cracking FEATURE: A limited number of resin tops have built-in "flex" meter that provides a visual, measurable record of the amount of stress that the side panels have experienced > * passenger side door latch assembly sticks when hot. FEATURE: Passenger door safety feature. In the event that your passenger forgets to lock their door, a built in heat-sensitive latch retard is activated in hot-weather to prevent unintended opening of the door (intentional opening is also prevented) The mechanism is heat sensitive because studies have shown that falling out of the passenger door on Arizona highways in July is generally more injurious than falling onto a northern Wisconsin interstate in January. > * leaky oil pan gasket (replaced) FEATURE: Passive parking space marker enables driver, family and neighbors to see where the D90 was parked last night. Family pets are discouraged from napping in the parking space. And besides, this is one of Land Rover's best known features harkening back to the Series I. > * loose valve covers FEATURE: Built-in test-site to allow newbie owners to try to figure out what size socket is needed to tighten. ;-=) And remember, D90s with these, and other, FEATURES cost no more than the featureless (no problem) ones that have been mentioned on the list. Furthermore, additional features will become available on vehicles already owned: check list for "availability" in your area (or check out your D90 from time to time). Best wishes, David In love with my many-featured '94 D90! From William Caloccia Thu Feb 01 17:03:33 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 17:03:33 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: LRO Mailing Lists ARE MOVING: Major Domo's got marching orders ! Hi Folks, As you've been warned, the Mail Host for the Land Rover Owner mailing lists is moving. So, you're asking, what does this mean to me ? If YOU, your Mail Aliases File, your WEB Pages or your Mail Program is CONFIGURED to contact the Land Rover mailing lists via any of the following host names: @*stratus.com @stratus.com @transfer.stratus.com @uk.stratus.com @butler.uk.stratus.com (these addresses will break from 2/2/1996) @team.net (this address will break any time now, when DNS records get updated.) then YOU NEED to update your fingers, files, WEB Pages or configurations to @land-rover.team.net As for the digest folks, they may get a couple of digests per day (one from the old and one from the new), but they'll have different content. I'll see to getting the old one turned off soon (next week) Problems: Any cached information about the Team.Net domain could hang about (legitimitly) for one week. So unless the DNS where which does name resolution for you gets updated promptly with the new entry, things may be broken for a couple days. If you continue to have problems with sending mail past the weekend then ask your Internet Service Provider to bounce your/thier DNS system to clear the cache. For you hacks: The current SOA revision number for the Team.Net. domain is 1000117, as from 15:30 EST 1 Feb 1996. The new host is pointed to by the MX record for Land-Rover.Team.Net. [ I'm NOT advertising the host name, and neither should you ! ] Please remove errant references to 'old' addresses in WEB Pages. Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com P R http://www.openmarket.com/personal/caloccia/ L D R 1 3 2wd H 1 3 R dl OD L | 3 +--|--| o | |--|-+ o | | H 2 2 4 4wd L 2 4 ul N H 1 '63 SIIa RHD 88" '72 Range Rover '90 RR County 793-PTA DAJ-802-L Dewsbury, UK (for sale) From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 1 19:43:06 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:43:06 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Matt Turner's Moab Rally - May 1996 > if you haven't been to moab, you should consider. the rock > crawling can't get better than that... Moab is a great place. btw, when I was there in '92, the guy at the tire store (across from the circle-K, west end of town) said don't bother trying to use the air hose at the circle-K (25cents and it barely works), just come on over. He also monitors ch. 4 (with a high power rig) in case of emergency. Also, there's a micro brew with a great blackberry (I think) beer, but the can't beat it place to eat is the Rio Colorado, a block south of the main drag. Fantastic black been soup and it just gets better. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that From "John C. White, III" Sat Feb 3 08:59:32 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:59:32 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! Now that Majordomo of the international list in the Bay Area maybe we Left Coasters should introduce him to the Albatross (Berkeley) or Hannigan's (Los Gatos) or the BBC (British Bankers' Club in Menlo Park), whatever is most convenient. Cheers! John At 18:59 02.02.96 -0800, Walter C. Swain wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From n_suesse@cc.colorado.edu Sat Feb 03 13:05:03 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 13:05:03 MST From: n_suesse@cc.colorado.edu Subject: Looking for 88" Hello, I am looking for a series IIa or III 88" rover. I love rovers and owned a 68 IIa for a while but it was beyond the point on it's repair curve that it made sense to keep. I am at college in Colorado, but I live in Upstate New York, so If anyone knows of a good LR in either place I would love to hear about it. My email is N_suesse@cc.colorado.edu Thanks alot, Ned N_SUESSE@cc.colorado.edu From Joseph Broach Sat Feb 03 16:21:59 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 16:21:59 -0500 From: Joseph Broach Subject: (frozen?) clutch Hello everyone, As I was passing by all the poor souls in our 14" of snow, the rover became increasingly difficult to shift. Finally it became jammed in gear. Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, I now need to figure out the problem. It is obvious that the clutch plates are not separating. Is it possible for the plates to freeze together? If this is the case, why did they not stick until I had driven for 10 min. Other Suggestions? I need to get this one running because the '67 has the top off for repairs (brrrr.). Clueless and snowbound :-( Joseph Broach '67 IIa 88 '68 IIa 88 From Duncan Brown Sat Feb 03 17:06:54 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 17:06:54 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: frozen clutch Joseph, > As I was passing by all the poor souls in our 14" of snow, the rover > became increasingly difficult to shift. Finally it became jammed in > gear. Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, > plates are not separating. Is it possible for the plates to freeze > together? If this is the case, why did they not stick until I had > driven for 10 min. Other Suggestions? I need to get this one running Pretty low-probability guess: you scooped up so much snow driving through the deep stuff that you've wedged frozen snow ice slag in and around your clutch slave cylinder? More likely: the cold weather has made your marginal clutch hydraulics' seals shrink just enough to stop working. If the fluid level is dropping, maybe it's leaking past the slave seal (do you see it dripping out of the boot on the cylinder?) or maybe it's leaking past the master seal (do you see it all over the pedal assembly under the hood?) If the fluid level is not dropping, then your master seal is not maintaining pressure, letting the fluid past the little seal that blocks the reservoir inlet during pedal actuation. One trick I had to use on a TR4 that was similarly suddenly afflicted in bitter cold weather (but these were the BRAKES!): try sharply jabbing the pedal to start, to get the seal to spread out a bit from fluid pressure...and hope it continues holding down the bore... Duncan, driving through Charlottesville's 14" of snow, pulling people out of snowbanks, and loving it! From 73363.427@compuserve.com 03 96 Feb EST 1917 Date: 03 Feb 96 17:42:26 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: (frozen?) clutch >> As I was passing by all the poor souls in our 14" of snow, the rover became increasingly difficult to shift. Finally it became jammed in gear. Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, I now need to figure out the problem. It is obvious that the clutch plates are not separating. Is it possible for the plates to freeze together? If this is the case, why did they not stick until I had driven for 10 min. Other Suggestions? << Sounds like you lost fluid from your clutch system. It is doubtful that the clutch and flywheel would fuse together while driving. Check the reservoir and see if it is low. You might be able to drive around a little while by continuously adding fluid, but you will need to rectify the problem shortly. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 03-Feb-1996 From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 3 18:45:22 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:45:22 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: (frozen?) clutch >>Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, I now need to figure out the problem. I don't have a suggestion for the clutch, but not having one shouldn't leave you stranded. You don't need a clutch to shift, only to idle. I broke the throwout bearing on my IIa and drove for a week without a clutch. Only the stop lights were a problem. You just have to learn to speed shift, start the truck in gear, and plan ahead for stops (turn the key off and make sure you've downshifted into 1st, 1st.) - - Rovers may breakdown, but they never leave you stranded - - From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Sat Feb 3 16:33:48 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:33:48 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: (frozen?) clutch Joseph coming out of the right side of the bellhousing there is a throwout bearing actuator. A tube links that with the rest of the linkage, I assume that you checked fluid levels and the clutsh fluid is not leaking. There is a steel pin at each end that links the tube to the shafts at each end. If one of the pins has broken your clutch will not work. My 109 had the same symptoms as yours. One of the pins broke. I couldn't tell by visual observation as enough of it remained to look right and partially move the collar. I had to remove the pins to see the problem. If one of these pins broke, replace them both and check the collar for elongation of the holes If it is elongated replace it aFrom "John Y. Liu" Sun Feb 04 04:19:17 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 04:19:17 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re USA Magazine Subscription SPAM OK, fellow LRO's, I know it's usually better to ignore spam, but please listen for a second. The spam referred to came from "ellenfox@cc.mice.uvr.edu". Sounds like a student or employee of some school mis-using school equipment to spam, probably for profit. It would seem simple enough to identify her school and the administrator of the computer system she's using, and send (polite) messages requesting she desist from spamming lest her net access be revoked. But I tried Whois and could not identify the domain "uvr.edu". Can someone better-versed in the workings of the Internet give this a try? John Y. Liu johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE Feathercraft K-1 From Russell Burns Sun Feb 4 6:22:22 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 6:22:22 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D90 ,..and MPG for D90 Na, I use sync oil every where, set the time to 9 degrees instead of 6, and use the lowest octane gas I can find. I also have some goodyear gsa tires on the beast, as I use it a commuter vehicle. I quick added the figures for the 94 D-90 from 20k to 40K miles and came up with an ave of 18 MPG. I think ths is closer to 17 MPH as I am sure that I have missed recording 3 or 4 tanks. I just picked up my wife's Green D-90 SW, Which she promply named "DON'T" as a reminder to me. But I will try and keep you posted if I can get 15+ mph out of the beast. Russ Burns 91 R-ROver (just got its first flat tire. -12 F must not like the new SW) 94 D-90 95 d-90 SW Dammn jim, this must be a disease..... > In a message dated 96-02-02 13:27:58 EST, you write: > >I Average about 15 MPG at 70 MPH with my 94 D-90 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] > them fuel ionizer magnets in your fuel line? > :) > John. From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Fri Feb 2 21:58:59 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:58:59 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Where the rubber meets the road David Olley wrote: The locals are to be admired for their ability to >undertake driving...without the benefit of the latest technology from >Goodrich, Goodyear et al. Many times, it is the government that's responsible for this, as many African nations have *horrendous* import duties. I was in the Peace Corps in Tunisia in '73 and '74 and one of our vehicles was a IIa diesel 88. I can recall several cross-country trips made on tires that were only tires in the academic sense...they were round and once made of rubber. Anyway, two of them had picked up some embeded nails which would work its way through the tread, puncture the tube, then retreat back into the tread. Drove us *nuts*. We never could find them despite many *very close* inspections. Import duties on tires, cars and most other "luxuries" was 100%. Between the group of us, we couldn't come up with enough cash to buy a new tire, though we did buy a tube when the old one had too many patches. We got to be real good and tire/tube changing though. Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "John C. White, III" Sun Feb 4 07:36:00 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 07:36:00 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! Oh. I realize that majordomo is a process and not a person. I was thinking more about William Caloccia. Or did I misunderstand the stuff about hanging out in the Haight and drinking gin & tonics at the Claremont, and only the list moved? I'll go back to sleep now. John At 23:37 03.02.96 -0800, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: >In message <199602031700.JAA29927@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: >> Now that Majordomo of the international list in the Bay Area maybe we Left [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > Science Applications International Corporation > Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake From Andrew Birrell Sun Feb 4 18:44:29 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:44:29 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Andrew Birrell Subject: Re: (frozen?) clutch As has been mentioned, clutches are really optional unless idling (specially with some of the Landrovers in Africa!). I had to drive 2500 km from Malawi, through Tanzania, to Nairobi in 1993 without one, in my diesel SIIA. Was a bit harrowing at the coast, where one has a few hundred km of hills, but not impossible. Viva landrovers viva Andrew Cape Town From Rick Grant Sun Feb 4 13:28:14 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 13:28:14 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road At 09:58 PM 2/2/96 -0500, Alexander P. Grice, wrote >can recall several cross-country trips made on tires that were only tires in >the academic sense...they were round and once made of rubber. It amazes me how ingenious people can be in keeping a vehicle moving. During the Somalia famine and civil war I saw many trucks running on tires that were made of braided grass, vines and general plant junk. The whole mess would be held in place around the rim with lashing after lashing of rope passed through the rim holes and around the "tyre". Sometimes I'd see what passed for a belted radial where the vegetable "inner tube" was held on by the remains of a rubber tire casing. By the way, there is a persistent legend in southern Somalia that a Land Rover carrying most of the country's gold reserves is lost out in the bush. It was known to have left Mogadishu at the height of the fighting between Aideed and Ali Mahdi being driven by a woman. It was apparently last seen in the Bardera region. Legend has it that it's half buried somewhere in the desert between there and Kenya. Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII Ottawa, Canada From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Feb 4 11:37:28 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:37:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: SPAM John, there is no Ellen Fox, and there are no other "students" telling us about this "wonderful" service. The spammer uses false names and addresses to give himself credibility. If you want to get to him, complain to his service provider. Sandy Grice has posted them, and maybe will do it again. There is every indication that the parasitic spammer is a subscriber to this list since he has reacted very quickly to changes and serious challenges to his actions. His address is krazykev@kjl.com, but sending stuff to him is probably a waste of effort and band width. I expect he is more than a little twisted, and is getting a lot of satisfaction from our reactions. Walt Davis, CA On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, John Y. Liu wrote: > OK, fellow LRO's, I know it's usually better to ignore spam, but please > listen for a second. > The spam referred to came from "ellenfox@cc.mice.uvr.edu". Sounds like a > student or employee of some school mis-using school equipment to spam, > probably for profit. It would seem simple enough to identify her school and > the administrator of the computer system she's using, and send (polite) > messages requesting she desist from spamming lest her net access be revoked. > But I tried Whois and could not identify the domain "uvr.edu". Can someone > better-versed in the workings of the Internet give this a try? From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Sun Feb 04 15:14:57 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 15:14:57 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Series: Frame Replacement Log: Week 4 Hi all, [ If anyone is coming in late, this is a running comentary of my progress in replacing the frame and bulkhead of my '66 IIa 88. ] Essentially, I was compleatly shut down last week by the artic cold that had much of the midwest in the deep freeze. The temps today hit 0 (thats *zero* F) for the first time in 6 days. I decided that it would cost me too much in fuel to try and bring the uninsulated garage up to working temp, and the frigid wind would just sap the heat from small cracks anyway. In the mean time, I put together a list of parts that I am going to be replacing, as well as did some reading up on upcoming aspects of the project. I put the list of parts that I can use spares or used parts for at the end of the entry, and if anyone has any of these, please let me know. Temps back up into the 20s and 30s this week, so I hope I can finally get the new frame painted and ready for the part transfer. Goal for the coming week is still the same, to get the frame painted and start working on the front axle components and steering - the steering relay will likley be the first big task. The Parts List (looking for used versions of these items): Driver (left) floor panel Bulkhead cowling tunnel cover spring u-bolts (all 8) splash/mud guards steering box cover axle bumpstops mud flaps side step wheel cylinders Thanks, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 4 96 Feb EST 1919 Date: 4 Feb 96 19:36:41 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Mike Rooth Scores in LRO! Of course, HE won't tell us thics, but he's got a "Handy Rover Tip" box in the Letters section of January's LRO! Congrats, Mike - You've hit the big time! 8*) Aj"Jealous"r From Russell Burns Sun Feb 4 16:58:00 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 16:58:00 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road > By the way, there is a persistent legend in southern Somalia that a Land > Rover carrying most of the country's gold reserves is lost out in the bush. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > in the Bardera region. Legend has it that it's half buried somewhere in the > desert between there and Kenya. What type of Rover, it should have a good frame out in the desert... Russ Burns > By the way, there is a persistent legend in southern Somalia that a Land > Rover carrying most of the country's gold reserves is lost out in the bush. From Wdcockey@aol.com Sun Feb 4 20:36:36 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:36:36 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Billings UK show Billing '96 Info (from February '96 LRO magazine, p. 16): July 19-21, 1996 Camping available Thursday/Friday/Daturday nights. Fee for camping is 30# for 3 nights, LRO subscribers and 33# for 3 nights, others. Address to return booking form to is LRO (Billing '96), Anglian House, Chapel Lane, Botesdale, Diss, Norfolk IP22 1DT. Site is Billing Aquadrome, Northampton. According to '95 A to Z Road Atlas Billing Aquadrome is just south of Great Billing and Little Billing, east of the city of Northampton. Northampton is less than two hours north of London east of the M1. Billing Show is run by the former LRO mag. staff, not the current staff. A UK phone number to try is: 01379 890056 Fax: 01379 898244. From US drop leading 0 and dial 011 44 UK number. I understand the camping fills up quickly, and the booking form has been in the hands of LRO subscribers for several weeks now, so timely action is appropriate. Prehaps a phone call or fax would be in order. An alternative to camping is a B&B, usually in the 15#-18#/night. Our technique in Britain has been to look for signs if front of houses, or in a "tourist" area visit the local Tourist Info center. We've never used one of the directories, and my impression is that many that make the directories are more "inns" than homes. David Cockey From Dixon Kenner Sun Feb 4 21:44:09 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Mike Rooth Scores in LRO! On 4 Feb 1996, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Of course, HE won't tell us thics, but he's got a "Handy Rover Tip" box > in the Letters section of January's LRO! Mike is too busy outfitting the ex-RAF 101 for the Camel Trophy run to worry about articles in LRO... :-) BTW, Spencer sourced the BetaCam yet? Rgds, From "John Y. Liu" Sun Feb 04 19:26:25 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 19:26:25 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Frame Painting -- More Questions Well, I knew this would happen. I was under the Rover today priming the frame, and found myself also priming just about everything else in sight -- springs, axles, exhaust pipe, ties rods, etc. Which means I'll have to paint those parts, not much liking the brown primer color. The question is, what color was everything originally? I assume the frame was gloss black; much of the original paint is still present and that's what it is. Were the axles, springs, and tie rods, the same? What about the exhaust -- silver, black, or what? I recognize it is a time-honored tradition for 4x4s to show up with vermillion shocks, screaming yellow axles, neon pink frames, chrome tipped exhaust, and lights in the wheel wells. But I think that does not extend to Land Rovers. Still, perhaps there's some room for individuality here. What's the general sense of the boundaries of good taste? * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Y. Liu Los Angeles, CA johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE 1994 Feathercraft K-1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Sun Feb 4 23:07:10 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:07:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Florida Owners Association Forming!!! Howdy all! I am proud to announce to any and all interested owners and/or enthusiasts that a new Florida Owners group is forming and we alreadFrom dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Feb 2 11:18:14 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:18:14 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: '84 109 V8 brakes > series III 109 V8??? > I know that the later model uses a dual power brake system, but I don't know > what changes may have been made at the wheels. Anyone know?? Ah guess who doesnt keep e-mail records for 3 or more years (g) Yeh none of us.... Now that I've established that TerriAnn has been here before the answer is... Series III V8 brakes at the wheel are the same as 6cyl 109's ie 3" x 11" front drums and 2.5 x 11" rear. The front wheel cyls and backing plates are different. I'm not certain but ISTR that the rears are the same as the 2 1/4 109's. Dang where is that parts manual..... The wheel end of the brakes on my '67 6cyl IIA and '82 SIII V8 were interchangable. (I swaped tham cause I'd just put new brakes on the IIa, and didnt feel like paying for it again. There are a couple of variations in piston design but ISTR that they are interchangable, just make it a pain to order seal kits before you strip the cyls down. Of course I've always ended up with the "rare ones we dont have in stock" :-) does this help at all? cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From SACME@aol.com Thu Feb 1 19:53:37 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:53:37 -0500 From: SACME@aol.com Subject: LR/marine connection and the Birmabright Brotherhood While seated on the throne today, I picked up one of the many marine supply catalogs I get and realized that it was loaded with 12 volt items that could fit well in our LR's. I won't use up precious bandwidth with a list, but simply encourage all to have a looksee. Marine products are designed to stand up to a saltwater environment, so they should do very well on even the salt-laden roads of the US northeast. (I was looking at the electric and compressor-type air horns - what fun to pull up behind a JGC or other faux-Rover and make a noise like the QE2!) 'Nother subject. I recently had a beautiful example of the way in which LR owners support each other. My son, Andy, left Maine on Sunday, 1/21, headed for college in Bronxville, NY, in our (his) newly purchased Series III. On I-84, just before I-684 that goes south toward NYC, the alternator froze up solid. Bang goes the fanbelt. It's about 9 p.m. on a Sunday...the pits! Andy had made it to an exit and was at a convenience store, which was just about to close. He called me in Maine and I suggested that he contact the local police, who would know the local motels and help him get a tow (his total possessions were in the car, including his computer - not what you want to leave just anywhere. After we hung up, I had the idea of going back over my LR digests and seeing if anyone was in the area where Andy was stranded. I found Eric Zipkin in Bedford, NY, who, thank God, includes his town and phone number in his digest messages. I called him, and I can only say that he was immediately ready to move heaven and earth to help a total stranger whose only credential was being stuck in a LR. He offered to dig his trailer out of a snowbank and go get my son and LR, and then put both up for the night. I had no way of getting back to my son and had to wait for him to call, and when he did he had gotten a motel room and had had the car towed. I gave him Eric's phone number and asked him to call him right away and express his and my thanks for the very generous offer of assistance. Eric, you are a golden example of what being a LR owner is all about. Please accept my deepest thanks - you lifted a great weight off a concerned father's shoulders, just by my knowing that you were ready to help if needed. To Eric Lipkin and all other LR (No, make that "Solihull Product" ) owners: If you are in the vicinity of Maine and have a problem, I will help. The coffee pot is on and the tools and shop are ready to go to work. A couple more items re the above and then I'll shut up...I promise. On Monday morning, at Eric's suggestion, Andy called Bryan Davies in New Preston, CT. Bryan not only delivered a new alternator to Andy at a pittance for the transport, but, after Andy and I made a valiant, but unsuccessful, attempt to get a bank to advance cash on Andy's AMEX card, agreed to let me send him a check. As a backup, I had called AB in Mechanicville, where I have been a customer for years, and they graciously agreed to vouch for my bill-paying character to Bryan Davies, should it be necessary - it wasn't. My thanks to Claudette at AB, and to Bryan for extending a whole lot of trust. Let's resolve to keep the "Birmabright Brotherhood of LR/Defs/RR/Disco's" going for a long, long, time! (RRs, Defs and Discos are Birmabright too, aren't they?). Doug Scott in Monmouth, Maine at 207-933-2220 and Andy Scott in Bronxville, NY at 914-323-6638. 2 ea. '72 Series III (one with a brand new "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" alternator!) From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Feb 2 12:44:44 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:44:44 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Stage 1 V8 brakes > Does anyone know the differences in brake systems between a 2-1/4 L 109 and a > series III 109 V8??? > I know that the later model uses a dual power brake system, but I don't know > what changes may have been made at the wheels. Anyone know?? Ah guess who doesnt keep e-mail records for 3 or more years (g) Yeh none of us.... Now that I've established that TerriAnn has been here before the answer is... Series III V8 brakes at the wheel are the same as 6cyl 109's ie 3" x 11" front drums and 2.5 x 11" rear. The front wheel cyls and backing plates are different. I'm not certain but ISTR that the rears are the same as the 2 1/4 109's. Dang where is that parts manual..... The wheel end of the brakes on my '67 6cyl IIA and '82 SIII V8 were interchangable. (I swaped tham cause I'd just put new brakes on the IIa, and didnt feel like paying for it again. There are a couple of variations in piston design but ISTR that they are interchangable, just make it a pain to order seal kits before you strip the cyls down. Of course I've always ended up with the "rare ones we dont have in stock" :-) does this help at all? cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Feb 1 21:36:44 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:36:44 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Snow prowess Glad to see that we're still here...how long is it going to last? Hat's off to Bill Caloccia and Stratus for allowing this contentious bunch to hang out on their machines for so long.... William Owen wrote: >I can't prove to you that a LR is better in snow than other $X4's...but >there are many anecdotal accounts which seem to indicate that they are... Like I've always said, success in wintertime driving is 25% tires, 25% vehicle and 50% driver. As to tires, the best are narrow, tall and sharp shouldered. 7.50 x 16's are ideal. High flotation tires only work if your're going to be driving on glaciers. As to the vehicle...the Land-Rover is *the best*. I bought mine (new) in '72 with the express purpose of getting to the ski slopes when no one else could, and in that respect, the Rover has performed flawlessly. In fact, with a stout tow chain on the back, it's even *paid* for a few trips. Equip it with a block heater, battery heater and charger, radiator muff and chains on all corners, and it'll go where others fear to tread. (Like Donner, Loveland and Teton Passes in snowstorms...and the first two ain't nothin' compared to the last. For you Vermonters, I forced a closed Hazen's Notch on time just for grins.) As to the latter part - driver skill. That's the biggest variable. For the new owners out there, take the vehicle out to a vacant car park and *practice*. *Try* to get stuck. Accelerate into turns. Brake into skids. See what it takes to get out of control. If you have the bucks (about $100 per day) try Jean-Paul Luc's ice driving school at either Steamboat or Killington. *Bags* of fun...and in someone else's vehicle, though both courses allow you to practice in your own afterwards. "It's hard to be humble when you're driving a Rover." -Anon. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Thu Feb 1 19:29:43 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:29:43 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: remenising (null tech content) Daryl writes: >Ah guess who doesnt keep e-mail records for 3 or more years (g) >Yeh none of us.... >Now that I've established that TerriAnn has been here before the >answer is... Daryl, now that the list is moving I was just thinking about the journey on this list. I think I joined the Land Rover list around summer of '90. I don't know how many of us there were then, but it wasn't unusual to go a month between messages and I thought it was buisy at 2 or 3 a week. I think about that when I open my mailer and see a jillion messages. The traffic on this list has littrally exploded in the last two years. But your right, I don't archive much email. But I do have the pages you FAXed me a couple of years ago about brake masters. I wonder how many "old timers" are still here besides you and me? I don't know if Dixon counts, I think he's only been here about 3 years. It was fun racing him to see who would get our 109 on the road first. It was just about a dead heat. He was trying to get his first LR resurected then. Now hes one of the most knowledgable of us. Well thanks again for the info TeriAnn From JDolan2109@aol.com Thu Feb 1 22:32:23 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:32:23 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: Used RR sought Hello! I guess I'm back, though I'll be changing my server shortly. At long last (as of Feb. 1 @ 12:01 AM) I'm able to access here via a local (non-toll) call. Previously, it just got too expensive, so I 'kinda dropped off'. I might have been one of those 'prefer series types' as well, and all the RR stuff was not too relevant. But now, my wife's Jeep (hard to believe, but true) is expiring, and in the interest of becoming a totally Rover products family, we're looking for a used RR. (we will have one exception- a '68 P1800). In the interest of affordability, it would probably need to be an '87 or '88. It need not be pristine, and in need of some repair is acceptable. Perhaps a good running '71 88" SW could be factored into a transaction? I've been cautioned about vehicles of the 'grey market vintage', as I was told parts identification can be problematic (operating on heresay on this one), the variations in water pumps being given as an illustration. If this is not general experience, perhaps I could learn otherwise. I guess geographics are a factor. I'm located in central Vermont, but would travel a reasonable distance for a good reason. Anyone who has a vehicle for sale, or knows of one, please advise, via e-mail direct. I can't quite yet handle the volume of the LROD every day, though I do still get it and access it from time to time. See 'ya on the old road... Jim '60 P5 (628000165) '68 P6 SC Auto '68 P6 TC '60, '61, '64, '64, '68, '71 LR's, 88" LR... quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised P.S. Alan- I do have your half-shafts, though they are currently 'drifted in'. I'm told they are the same for a 88" and a 109". If not so, please advise. I'll retrieve (pull) them as soon as the snow slumps or melts a bit more... From Duncan Brown Thu Feb 01 23:15:49 1996 Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 23:15:49 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Might as well try a test... All, Forgive the waste of bandwidth, but the empty mails from the "playground" address have been driving me bonkers. I'm going to send a mail to the team.net address here, and see if I get it back as a list mail. If it never comes back, I'll assume it turned into an empty playground mail! Kinda like Invasion of The Body Snatchers... Duncan From PurnellJE@aol.com Fri Feb 2 00:05:48 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:05:48 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: D-90 'features', not problems In a message dated 96-02-01 16:45:06 EST, you write: >And remember, D90s with these, and other, FEATURES cost no more than the >featureless (no problem) ones that have been mentioned on the list. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >David >In love with my many-featured '94 D90! Top Notch, David, top notch. From lopezba@atnet.at Fri Feb 2 07:43:30 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 07:43:30 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Workshop manuals Curtis wanted to know about repair manuals. I bought my very nice SI repair manual reprint from the LRO Bookshop. The prices for SIIa, SIII and Defender are: 201 Land Rover II and IIa part 1 GBP 21.95 202 Land Rover II and IIa part 2 GBP 21.95 203 Land Rover III GBP 23.95 206 Land Rover 90/110 Defender GBP 39.95 For postage add GBP 3.50 per book for surface mail, 6.50 for air mail. You can use your Visa or Master Card. Their address is LRO Books Anglian House Chapel Lane Botesdale Diss Norfolk IP22 1DT Great Britain Their fax number is (UK) 1379 898244 Hope this helps Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W Vienna, Austria From "John C. White, III" Thu Feb 1 22:42:49 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:42:49 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance Oh gosh. It's all outlined in the docs that came with the vehicle, in the "stamp book" I believe. I'll have to check it out later if you want a definitive answer. My truck is parked about six blocks away. Cheers! John At 15:05 01.02.96 -0500, PurnellJE@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 96-02-01 11:56:26 EST, you write: >>Reread the manual that the dealer stamps, Hal. There are a lot of things [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >odd to me. >JOhn., From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Fri Feb 02 11:04:30 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 11:04:30 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Test hostname( Don't read) Sorry for abusing the bandwidth, but had to test the new host name, as mentioned in Bill's last message about changing the host. LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# "The Chameleon" |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From JDolan2109@aol.com Fri Feb 2 07:51:58 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 07:51:58 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: Used RR sought Hello! I guess I'm back, though I'll be changing my server shortly. At long last (as of Feb. 1 @ 12:01 AM) I'm able to access here via a local (non-toll) call. Previously, it just got too expensive, so I 'kinda dropped off'. I might have been one of those 'prefer series types' as well, and all the RR stuff was not too relevant. But now, my wife's Jeep (hard to believe, but true) is expiring, and in the interest of becoming a totally Rover products family, we're looking for a used RR. (we will have one exception- a '68 P1800). In the interest of affordability, it would probably need to be an '87 or '88. It need not be pristine, and in need of some repair is acceptable. Perhaps a good running '71 88" SW could be factored into a transaction? I've been cautioned about vehicles of the 'grey market vintage', as I was told parts identification can be problematic (operating on heresay on this one), the variations in water pumps being given as an illustration. If this is not general experience, perhaps I could learn otherwise. I guess geographics are a factor. I'm located in central Vermont, but would travel a reasonable distance for a good reason. Anyone who has a vehicle for sale, or knows of one, please advise, via e-mail direct. I can't quite yet handle the volume of the LROD every day, though I do still get it and access it from time to time. See 'ya on the old road... Jim '60 P5 (628000165) '68 P6 SC Auto '68 P6 TC '60, '61, '64, '64, '68, '71 LR's, 88" LR... quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised! P.S. Alan- I do have your half-shafts, though they are currently 'drifted in'. I'm told they are the same for a 88" and a 109". If not so, please advise. I'll retrieve (pull) them as soon as the snow slumps or melts a bit more... From "Tom Rowe" Fri Feb 2 07:52:23 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 07:52:23 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: (Fwd) Anybody know who this is? I had over ten mailing from them with no body of text. ------ Forwarded Message Follows ------- From "John C. White, III" Fri Feb 2 05:59:24 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 05:59:24 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery Maintenance Oh gosh. It's all outlined in the docs that came with the vehicle, in the "stamp book" I believe. I'll have to check it out later if you want a definitive answer. My truck is parked about six blocks away. Cheers! John At 15:04 01.02.96 -0500, PurnellJE@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >In a message dated 96-01-31 18:02:04 EST, you write: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 55 lines)] >wonderful to just drop it off and have things done. Life is a compromise. >John, Wisconsin >94D90 From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 2 96 Feb EST 1909 Date: 2 Feb 96 9:16:46 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Anybody else seeing these? -No Subject- I've seen the better part of 2 dozen of these. Is something somewhere throwing up, or are you testing, Bill? ajr cc: (bcc: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus) From "Mark Talbot" Fri Feb 2 01:19:52 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 01:19:52 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Series parts at great discounts All, If you are doing rebuilds, need brake parts, door tops etc, CALL JIM CARTIER in FL on 813-399-2961 This guy has just got a delivery from the UK Mark From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Feb 02 11:09:26 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 11:09:26 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: LRO Wierdness Hey all you real-timers, if you get this... Are you getting funny messages that say LRO-owner@playground, and have no message attached? Or is it just me? It seems like I get them about as often as I used to get regular messages. Hmmm. Dave "Lost in CyberSpace" From William Caloccia Fri Feb 02 11:51:09 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 11:51:09 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: RE: LRO Mailing Lists HAVE MOVED: Major Domo's re-assigned ! From William Caloccia Fri Feb 02 12:08:40 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 12:08:40 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: RE: LRO Mailing Lists HAVE MOVED: Major Domo's re-assigned ! Resend: Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:56:43 -0500 1 Feb 1996 Major Domo, Land Rover Owner Mailing List Ombudsman, Moves ---------------------------------------------------------- (Reuters, NYC) -- Called back from his posh London duty, Major Domo jumped 8 time zones West and has now relocated to the Bay Area. Major, in addition to his regular duties, wants to check out the Haight, hang out the Claremont sipping GnTs and snorting tequila. Rumours say Major has purchased surf gear and expects to take up surfing, but spokesman won't confirm this. ----------------- Hi Folks, As you've been warned, the Mail Host for the Land Rover Owner mailing lists has moved. All of the primary and secondary DNS severs (those wonder boxes that translate hostnames to IP addresses so you don't have to) have all been updated and are providing correct, current info. So, you're asking, what does this mean to me ? If YOU, your Mail Aliases File, your WEB Pages or your Mail Program is CONFIGURED to contact the Land Rover mailing lists via any of the following host names: @*stratus.com @stratus.com @transfer.stratus.com @uk.stratus.com @butler.uk.stratus.com (these addresses will break from 2/2/1996) @team.net (this address will break any time now, when DNS records get updated.) then YOU NEED to update your fingers, files, WEB Pages or configurations to @land-rover.team.net As for the digest folks, they may get a couple of digests per day (one from the old and one from the new), but they'll have different content. I'll see to getting the old one turned off soon (next week) Problems: IFF you unsubscribed from any LRO list in the last 48 hours, and got this message anyway, then please unsubscribe again. Write to majordomo@land-rover.team.net and if you can't remember which list it was, then do a which and majordomo will tell you which lists he think's you are on, then send him a message with unsubscribe and he'll do it again, dutifully. Any cached information about the Team.Net domain could hang about (legitimitly) for one week. So unless the DNS where which does name resolution for you gets updated promptly with the new entry, things may be broken for a couple days. If you continue to have problems with sending mail past the weekend then ask your Internet Service Provider to bounce your/thier DNS system to clear the cache. For you hacks: The new host is pointed to by the MX record for Land-Rover.Team.Net. [ I'm NOT advertising the host name, and neither should you ! ] Please remove errant references to 'old' addresses in WEB Pages. A big thanks to Bruce Curtis (who, like me, has been to busy to bother reading the digest of late), who re-constucted the Major Domo environment on this bit-chomping Sun with a HUGE pipe to the rest of the world. Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com P R http://www.openmarket.com/personal/caloccia/ L D R 1 3 2wd H 1 3 R dl OD L | 3 +--|--| o | |--|-+ o | | H 2 2 4 4wd L 2 4 ul N H 1 '63 SIIa RHD 88" '72 Range Rover '90 RR County 793-PTA DAJ-802-L Dewsbury, UK (for sale) ------- End of Forwarded Message From David Rosenbaum Fri Feb 2 09:15:13 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:15:13 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: "only a test of mail system" It's surely to do with the changing mail host, and I hope *not* revenge from krazykev@kjl.com: many 'blank' messages from LRO-Owner@playground From "Tom Rowe" Fri Feb 2 12:03:55 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:03:55 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: new list site Well, are we back? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From PurnellJE@aol.com Fri Feb 2 13:02:04 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:02:04 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 problems/Not me!...and MPG for D90 In a message dated 96-02-02 01:26:02 EST, you write: >Geeee!! >It sounds like you guys, (John Purnell/Jeff Gavin) are experiencing some [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >I've been averaging about 25 MPG on the highway at an average speed of 105 >MPH, >. Man Barnett, you had me all the way up to the 105mph. "No problems at ALL? Wow, I shoulda spent the extra for a 95 MY!" And when I saw that 25 MPG, I just about flipped! "HOw the he%# can he get that kind of mileage from it?" HA HA. Then, I saw the mph. that explained it. On the MPG note, my mileage varies wildly. This has been more of a focus for me because I'm calculating expenses for living an hour away from work versus renting an apartment close to work, and keeping the place I have now, in effect, 2 apts, one for the week, and the other for the weekend. For the cost in commuting with the "impeccable" mileage, I can almost get the additional apartment, and when factoring in the drive time, it definatley becomes more palatable. I've included below a table of my latest mileages. Some are 4WD, because of our recent snow, but anything that doesn't say Madison at the end, is out on the highway, not much difference between city and highway for me... Other D90s are equally as "needy?" To be fair, the 14.5 mpg below is all highway BELOW 60 mph, that was on a smaller state road--twisty and turny. I guess the barn door effect is really pronounced at the higher speeds, no surprise really, drag is related to speed squared. (maybe it is cubed on the Defenders.) JOhn. 94 D90. date: miles: gal: MPG: Location: 12/31/95 110 10.1 10.9 Beaver Dam 1/3/96 148 12.1 12.2 Fond Du Lac 1/11/96 152 13.3 11.4 Madison 1/21/96 150 15.3 9.8 Madison 1/24/96 149 12.2 12.3 Madison 1/25/96 195 13.4 14.5 Highway run, Fondy+Ft. Atk. 1/27/96 126 10.1 12.4 Madison 1/28/96 130 10.2 12.7 Fond Du Lac From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Feb 2 10:25:12 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: "only a test of mail system" Hi David, I thought about responding to the blank messages, and finally decided it wasn't a good idea to hassle them. Yesterday Bill C mentioned that the management of the list was migrating to the Bay Area, and said something nice about Sun taking on the chore of manageing the lists. It all fits, somehow, and doesn't suggest any response from the parasitic spammer KK@kjl.com. I'm just assuming that these blank messages are part of the list "birthing" process. These things always have an element of pain associated with them. Walt Swain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, David Rosenbaum wrote: > It's surely to do with the changing mail host, and I hope *not* revenge > from krazykev@kjl.com: > many 'blank' messages from LRO-Owner@playground From russ burns Fri Feb 2 10:30:04 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:30:04 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Is the list back?? I think so. Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From russ burns Fri Feb 2 10:37:45 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:37:45 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Test Let see what this does.... Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From Bruce.Curtis@sun.com (Bruce Curtis) Fri Feb 2 10:38:37 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:38:37 -0800 From: Bruce.Curtis@sun.com (Bruce Curtis) Subject: Re: new list site > From: "Tom Rowe" > To: Land-Rover-Owner@playground [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Well, are we back? Looks like it !!! Later, Bruce. '95 Disco -- Bruce W. Curtis brutus@Eng.Sun.COM SunSoft, Internet Engineering http://www.badrc.org/~brutus 2550 Garcia Ave, MS MPK17-202 (415)786-5147 Mountain View, CA 94043-1100 FAX:(415)786-5896 > Tom Rowe > UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > Four wheel drive allows you to get > stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Feb 02 14:44:22 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 14:44:22 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! If you are reading this then how's 'bout a big ol' round of applause for Big Bill C. the man behind the Major... Dave From "barnett childress" Fri Feb 2 15:06:42 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 15:06:42 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: test Hi all! Can anyone hear, er' I mean read me? barnett From wheelman@pipeline.com (Lee M. Levitt) Fri Feb 2 15:09:34 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:09:34 -0500 From: wheelman@pipeline.com (Lee M. Levitt) Subject: re:Tours in Az I've done some light touring in the Phoenix area, both up near Carefree and off Bee Line Drive. I heard about th first from a local, the second from the offroad list (offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu). There's lots of fine offroading in Phoenix...but the western desert adventure looks more like something dreamed up at DisneyWorld...Lots of adverts in Phoenix/Scottsdale...you might enjoy, as they do provide a full discussion of what you're seeing, but you can go to the Frank Lloyd Wright museum and do a desert walkthrough for the same info (and highly recommended). Enjoy, it's a fabulous place...and according to the local LR dealer, Enterprise bought some 400 Discos that are now being scattered across the country... Enjoy! Lee -- Lee M. Levitt wheelman@pipeline.com From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Feb 02 15:32:51 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 15:32:51 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Ok, its back. Its back less than one hour and already eceryone is writing the same message again. Someone start writing about Land Rovers already! Dave Bored In DC From William Caloccia Fri Feb 02 15:31:25 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 15:31:25 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: "only a test of mail system" Hi Real-Time Readers, Sorry for the blank messages. I got a message from one of the When the lists were migrated, I missed editing the pathnames within the digester and 'LRO-Lite' scripts (eg. the script that does a pass over the real-time mail), thus when a real-time message was sent, the content got spammed, and a null message was generated. I didn't catch it last night, and was in late today, so first thing fixed was that. Now that you're seeing messages with that familliar tag line: > X-edited-by: LRO-Lite > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net You're back on the air. And, yes, our new host is a SparcStation-10 at ``Sparc-Central'' somewhere in the Bay Area. (Hence the change from 'butler.uk.*' to 'playground.*' in the headers.) Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com P R http://www.senie.com/billc/ N L D R 1 3 2wd H 1 3 R dl OD L | 3 +--|--| o | |--|-+ o | | H 2 2 4 4wd L 2 4 ul N H 1 '63 SIIa RHD 88" '72 Range Rover '90 RR County 793-PTA DAJ-802-L Dewsbury, UK (for sale) From Sanna@aol.com Fri Feb 2 16:18:54 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:18:54 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Which One? Which is the real address? Land-Rover-Owner@playground or Land-Rover-Owner@land-rover.team.net From David Rosenbaum Fri Feb 2 14:38:21 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:38:21 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: D90 stuff In the spirit of testing the new list, and getting back to Land Rover stuff: 1) The Rover's North Winter '96 Newsletter lists rear mudflaps for the D90. I phoned them and they said that they are not happy with the quality and that they are going to re-do them .... more info will be available in perhaps a couple of weeks. 2) I bought the book recommended by Steve at British Pacific Land Rover: "Land Rover Defender, 90, 110: Step by Step Service Guide, including diesel, 130, and US Spec. Models" by Lindsay Porter and Dave Pollard. It covers a good deal of material and is well suited to first-time Land Rover Owner. Lots of "step-by-step" instructions for maintenance, and a section on 'Rustproofing' using Waxoyl and a UK product called "Dinitrol" (anybody know if it is available in the USA?) Anyway, it is good reading while Seattle recovers from its cold spell (went into the high teens again last night ;-) ) Best wishes, David From PurnellJE@aol.com Fri Feb 2 19:43:41 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:43:41 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: "only a test of mail system" In a message dated 96-02-02 12:35:55 EST, you write: >t >It's surely to do with the changing mail host, and I hope *not* revenge [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >from krazykev@kjl.com: >many 'blank' messages from LRO-Owner@playground >. Yes, me too. Play, play, play. frolic, fun, bounce, and joy. 4, 9, 10, 11 years of age. John, 94D90 From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Sat Feb 3 00:58:03 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:58:03 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! > If you are reading this then how's 'bout a big ol' round of applause > for Big Bill C. the man behind the Major... Here, here. Sterling effort by our man. I cannot imagine why he should want to put up with such a rowdy bunch as we LROs, but I certainly think he deserves a beer. Perhaps someone will get him one .............. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From "John Y. Liu" Fri Feb 02 16:52:53 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 16:52:53 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Land Rover Baja Trip In August? OK, now that we're all on the list again, is anyone interested in the Baja trip suggested by Gene Sparks? The general idea would be a group of Rovers, new and old, on a loose ramble through Baja for 6-9 days sometime in summer 1996. Gene and I have discussed maybe a drive down the Sea of Cortez side, then across the peninsula and up the Pacific, camping on beaches, fishing, replacing halfshafts, and so on, and maybe doing it in August. There could be as much or as little offroading as people desire. I'm guessing we could get to roughly mid-peninsula (L.A. Bay, Mulege, Loreto) without rushing. I'd take my 1962 SIIA and would like to have some other Series trucks coming, so that I'm not the lagging one at the end of a group of new trucks. If there's any kayakers on the list, note I'd be lugging my boat down so bring yours too. It'd be nice to have some other hams; I was thinking of bringing a small 2m beam antenna and experimenting with hitting SoCal repeaters. Anyone interested or thinking about being interested, please respond. John Y. Liu johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE Feathercraft K-1 From Wdcockey@aol.com Fri Feb 2 20:29:41 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:29:41 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Partial LR news Got a brief look at the 24 January issue of "Autocar & Motor" the other day. The cover had a picture of a Grand Cheerokee and said something like "New Big Jeep (new in Britain) Has It All Over Discovery". Inside was a review of the Gr. Ch. (no time to read) and news of a 1997 Discovery major redo, and mentioned the 3 door would be dropped and the rear seats replaced with forward facing seats. Some mention of a BMW version. Also there was some discussion of the CB40. Autoweek (February 5, 1996) has a news item "Baby Rover too big?" which says the CB40 is just a little shorter than the Disco, although much shorter, and Rover is concerned it is too big to do battle with the RAV4 (major sucess in Britain) and like. Says Rover may move Discovery upmarket, and that CB40 is all steel. Has anybody else seen the Autocar who could provide a summary? It will be a while before I have a chance. David Cockey From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Feb 2 18:59:43 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:59:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, David Olley at NEW CONCEPT wrote: > > If you are reading this then how's 'bout a big ol' round of applause > > for Big Bill C. the man behind the Major... > Here, here. Sterling effort by our man. I cannot imagine why he should want > to put up with such a rowdy bunch as we LROs, but I certainly think he > deserves a beer. > Perhaps someone will get him one .............. This calls for more than a Cyber Beer. I thought of faxing him a some, but it would probably leak all over. There's got to be a fix for this; afterall, don't we ale-ways get find a way? Walt Swain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "Lee Zeltzer" Fri Feb 02 21:14:41 1996 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 21:14:41 -0700 From: "Lee Zeltzer" Subject: Re: Land Rover Baja Trip In August? John Y. Liu wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)] > 1978 Mercedes 280CE > Feathercraft K-1 I sent Gene a note to say I am interested. . Although I don't have series rover my non airconditioned D90 will be just as unconfortable in the 100 degree plus temperatures. Therefore, you go kayaking and I'm looking for scuba partner -- Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant Innovative System Design 100 N. Stone Ave. #605 Tucson, AZ 85701 lzeltzer@isdnet.com From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Fri Feb 2 23:02:09 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:02:09 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Billings UK show >From the replys to my previous question about which UK Land Rover meet has the best swap meet (autojumble) and variety of cars I gather the Billings show in July is it. Could someone please provide: 1. The actual dates of the show 2. Actual location of the show 3. Process by which one can secure camp sites at the meet - price? - FAX number of org selling camping spaces - etc Thanks TeriAnn "saving those quid for parts and ale, not a hotel room" From Lloyd Allison Sat Feb 3 22:45:31 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:45:31 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: is the lro list working testing testing anyone there? Lloyd From Michael Kirk Sat Feb 03 08:48:55 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 08:48:55 -0500 From: Michael Kirk Subject: Re: is the lro list working Yes......it is..... From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Feb 3 08:48:27 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:48:27 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! Talk about self-inflicted spam!!!!!!!!..come on.....Rgds, Steve From "John C. White, III" Sat Feb 3 08:59:32 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:59:32 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! Now that Majordomo of the international list in the Bay Area maybe we Left Coasters should introduce him to the Albatross (Berkeley) or Hannigan's (Los Gatos) or the BBC (British Bankers' Club in Menlo Park), whatever is most convenient. Cheers! John At 18:59 02.02.96 -0800, Walter C. Swain wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From Alan Hood Sat Feb 3 15:16:52 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:16:52 -0600 (CST) From: Alan Hood Subject: subscribe subscribe digest From n_suesse@cc.colorado.edu Sat Feb 03 13:05:03 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 13:05:03 MST From: n_suesse@cc.colorado.edu Subject: Looking for 88" Hello, I am looking for a series IIa or III 88" rover. I love rovers and owned a 68 IIa for a while but it was beyond the point on it's repair curve that it made sense to keep. I am at college in Colorado, but I live in Upstate New York, so If anyone knows of a good LR in either place I would love to hear about it. My email is N_suesse@cc.colorado.edu Thanks alot, Ned N_SUESSE@cc.colorado.edu From Joseph Broach Sat Feb 03 16:21:59 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 16:21:59 -0500 From: Joseph Broach Subject: (frozen?) clutch Hello everyone, As I was passing by all the poor souls in our 14" of snow, the rover became increasingly difficult to shift. Finally it became jammed in gear. Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, I now need to figure out the problem. It is obvious that the clutch plates are not separating. Is it possible for the plates to freeze together? If this is the case, why did they not stick until I had driven for 10 min. Other Suggestions? I need to get this one running because the '67 has the top off for repairs (brrrr.). Clueless and snowbound :-( Joseph Broach '67 IIa 88 '68 IIa 88 From Duncan Brown Sat Feb 03 17:06:54 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 17:06:54 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: frozen clutch Joseph, > As I was passing by all the poor souls in our 14" of snow, the rover > became increasingly difficult to shift. Finally it became jammed in > gear. Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, > plates are not separating. Is it possible for the plates to freeze > together? If this is the case, why did they not stick until I had > driven for 10 min. Other Suggestions? I need to get this one running Pretty low-probability guess: you scooped up so much snow driving through the deep stuff that you've wedged frozen snow ice slag in and around your clutch slave cylinder? More likely: the cold weather has made your marginal clutch hydraulics' seals shrink just enough to stop working. If the fluid level is dropping, maybe it's leaking past the slave seal (do you see it dripping out of the boot on the cylinder?) or maybe it's leaking past the master seal (do you see it all over the pedal assembly under the hood?) If the fluid level is not dropping, then your master seal is not maintaining pressure, letting the fluid past the little seal that blocks the reservoir inlet during pedal actuation. One trick I had to use on a TR4 that was similarly suddenly afflicted in bitter cold weather (but these were the BRAKES!): try sharply jabbing the pedal to start, to get the seal to spread out a bit from fluid pressure...and hope it continues holding down the bore... Duncan, driving through Charlottesville's 14" of snow, pulling people out of snowbanks, and loving it! From 73363.427@compuserve.com 03 96 Feb EST 1917 Date: 03 Feb 96 17:42:26 EST From: 73363.427@compuserve.com Subject: (frozen?) clutch >> As I was passing by all the poor souls in our 14" of snow, the rover became increasingly difficult to shift. Finally it became jammed in gear. Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, I now need to figure out the problem. It is obvious that the clutch plates are not separating. Is it possible for the plates to freeze together? If this is the case, why did they not stick until I had driven for 10 min. Other Suggestions? << Sounds like you lost fluid from your clutch system. It is doubtful that the clutch and flywheel would fuse together while driving. Check the reservoir and see if it is low. You might be able to drive around a little while by continuously adding fluid, but you will need to rectify the problem shortly. ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 "Eloise" |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] EEEI EEEI Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 03-Feb-1996 From Sanna@aol.com Sat Feb 3 18:45:22 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:45:22 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: (frozen?) clutch >>Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, I now need to figure out the problem. I don't have a suggestion for the clutch, but not having one shouldn't leave you stranded. You don't need a clutch to shift, only to idle. I broke the throwout bearing on my IIa and drove for a week without a clutch. Only the stop lights were a problem. You just have to learn to speed shift, start the truck in gear, and plan ahead for stops (turn the key off and make sure you've downshifted into 1st, 1st.) - - Rovers may breakdown, but they never leave you stranded - - From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Sat Feb 3 16:33:48 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:33:48 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: (frozen?) clutch Joseph coming out of the right side of the bellhousing there is a throwout bearing actuator. A tube links that with the rest of the linkage, I assume that you checked fluid levels and the clutsh fluid is not leaking. There is a steel pin at each end that links the tube to the shafts at each end. If one of the pins has broken your clutch will not work. My 109 had the same symptoms as yours. One of the pins broke. I couldn't tell by visual observation as enough of it remained to look right and partially move the collar. I had to remove the pins to see the problem. If one of these pins broke, replace them both and check the collar for elongation of the holes If it is elongated replace it as well as it takes a fair amount of pedal play to take up a little amount of slop. Connecting the collar is an 'L' shaped bell crank. It sits in a bronse bushing. If the pin hole is elongated in the bell crank it should also be replaced. If the bronse bearing is elongated. replace it also. These are not very expensive parts. I ended up replacing worn collar, both pins, bell crank and bushing. Before the pin broke the clutchreleased when the pedal was less than an inch from the floor. Now it releases half way down. Removing 30 years of elongation made a big difference in how well the clutch worked. Good luck finding your problem and may the solution be cheap. TeriAnn From howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Sat Feb 03 20:27:34 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 20:27:34 MST From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Subject: ARE YOU OUT THERE? WAS THERE A DIGEST FOR FEB 03? DO I NEED TO RESUBSCRIBE DUE TO LRO LIST HOST CHANGE? COULD SOMEONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHATS UP. THANKYOU. ANDREW HOWTON From Gene Sparks Sat Feb 3 19:50:23 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:50:23 -0800 From: Gene Sparks Subject: Help I've stop receiving my list!!! Can someone help me get back on. I'm going thru withdrawals. Gene 96 Discovery 5 speed w/character dent From spatzek@alaska.net Sat Feb 3 19:42:04 1996 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:42:04 -0900 From: spatzek@alaska.net Subject: subscribe land-rover-owner subscribe land-rover-owner From William Caloccia Sun Feb 04 02:22:46 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 02:22:46 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! | On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, David Olley at NEW CONCEPT wrote: | > > If you are reading this then how's 'bout a big ol' round of applause [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] | > deserves a beer. | > Perhaps someone will get him one .............. Walt Swain writes: | This calls for more than a Cyber Beer. I thought of faxing him a some, | but it would probably leak all over. There's got to be a fix for this; | afterall, don't we ale-ways get find a way? Hmmm, a Ciber Off-License, now there's a thought. Let's be exclusive though, only Single Malts 18 years or older :-) (Moderate Volume, reasonable mark-up, exclusitivity.) Does UPS have a delivery service that requires an adult to sign for the package ? Guess we'll need a list of 'dry' counties too. (After all, I work at _the_ electronice commerce place [stateside: if you heard the girlscout cookies URL on the news last week, that's running on our kit]) Ciao, Bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ Open Market, Inc. http://www.openmarket.com/ 245 First Street Cambridge, Ma. 02142 USA tel: +1 617 374 6579 fax: +1 617 252 3492 PS anyone leaving the UK for Boston who isn't planning on picking up a bottle on the way out, be sure to let me know, mature scotches are hard to get here. PPS I hacked the Soren's LRO-Plaque to have the current correct address, and made some transparent GIFs and a new background GIF for the lro-info pages from http://www.openmarket.com/personal/caloccia/lr/ http://www.senie.com/billc/lr/ From "Anthony John E. Maravilla IU-Med3" Sun Feb 04 02:32:55 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 02:32:55 -0500 From: "Anthony John E. Maravilla IU-Med3" Subject: Re: ARE YOU OUT THERE? I am not sure. I just subscribed to this yesterday. So, is this down or what? Do I have to go to a different newsgroup? THanks John '95 Discovery From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Feb 03 23:37:43 1996 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 23:37:43 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! In message <199602031700.JAA29927@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > Now that Majordomo of the international list in the Bay Area maybe we Left > Coasters should introduce him to the Albatross (Berkeley) or Hannigan's (Los > Gatos) or the BBC (British Bankers' Club in Menlo Park), whatever is most > convenient. Actually, MajorDomo was written by a fellow named Brent Chapman who is well known in the firewalls community. Brent lives in the Bay Area. So in many ways the Major started out in the Bay Area. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake From "John Y. Liu" Sun Feb 04 04:19:17 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 04:19:17 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re USA Magazine Subscription SPAM OK, fellow LRO's, I know it's usually better to ignore spam, but please listen for a second. The spam referred to came from "ellenfox@cc.mice.uvr.edu". Sounds like a student or employee of some school mis-using school equipment to spam, probably for profit. It would seem simple enough to identify her school and the administrator of the computer system she's using, and send (polite) messages requesting she desist from spamming lest her net access be revoked. But I tried Whois and could not identify the domain "uvr.edu". Can someone better-versed in the workings of the Internet give this a try? John Y. Liu johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE Feathercraft K-1 From Russell Burns Sun Feb 4 6:22:22 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 6:22:22 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D90 ,..and MPG for D90 Na, I use sync oil every where, set the time to 9 degrees instead of 6, and use the lowest octane gas I can find. I also have some goodyear gsa tires on the beast, as I use it a commuter vehicle. I quick added the figures for the 94 D-90 from 20k to 40K miles and came up with an ave of 18 MPG. I think ths is closer to 17 MPH as I am sure that I have missed recording 3 or 4 tanks. I just picked up my wife's Green D-90 SW, Which she promply named "DON'T" as a reminder to me. But I will try and keep you posted if I can get 15+ mph out of the beast. Russ Burns 91 R-ROver (just got its first flat tire. -12 F must not like the new SW) 94 D-90 95 d-90 SW Dammn jim, this must be a disease..... > In a message dated 96-02-02 13:27:58 EST, you write: > >I Average about 15 MPG at 70 MPH with my 94 D-90 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] > them fuel ionizer magnets in your fuel line? > :) > John. From S|ren Vels Christensen Sun Feb 4 16:20:26 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 16:20:26 +0100 (MET) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Re USA Magazine Subscription SPAM Ooooops. It seems that i didn't remove the list addr. whem i tried to return the junk. Sorry!. sv/aurens From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Fri Feb 2 21:58:59 1996 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:58:59 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Where the rubber meets the road David Olley wrote: The locals are to be admired for their ability to >undertake driving...without the benefit of the latest technology from >Goodrich, Goodyear et al. Many times, it is the government that's responsible for this, as many African nations have *horrendous* import duties. I was in the Peace Corps in Tunisia in '73 and '74 and one of our vehicles was a IIa diesel 88. I can recall several cross-country trips made on tires that were only tires in the academic sense...they were round and once made of rubber. Anyway, two of them had picked up some embeded nails which would work its way through the tread, puncture the tube, then retreat back into the tread. Drove us *nuts*. We never could find them despite many *very close* inspections. Import duties on tires, cars and most other "luxuries" was 100%. Between the group of us, we couldn't come up with enough cash to buy a new tire, though we did buy a tube when the old one had too many patches. We got to be real good and tire/tube changing though. Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "John C. White, III" Sun Feb 4 07:36:00 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 07:36:00 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! Oh. I realize that majordomo is a process and not a person. I was thinking more about William Caloccia. Or did I misunderstand the stuff about hanging out in the Haight and drinking gin & tonics at the Claremont, and only the list moved? I'll go back to sleep now. John At 23:37 03.02.96 -0800, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: >In message <199602031700.JAA29927@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: >> Now that Majordomo of the international list in the Bay Area maybe we Left [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > Science Applications International Corporation > Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake From Andrew Birrell Sun Feb 4 18:44:29 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 18:44:29 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Andrew Birrell Subject: Re: (frozen?) clutch As has been mentioned, clutches are really optional unless idling (specially with some of the Landrovers in Africa!). I had to drive 2500 km from Malawi, through Tanzania, to Nairobi in 1993 without one, in my diesel SIIA. Was a bit harrowing at the coast, where one has a few hundred km of hills, but not impossible. Viva landrovers viva Andrew Cape Town From Rick Grant Sun Feb 4 13:28:14 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 13:28:14 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road At 09:58 PM 2/2/96 -0500, Alexander P. Grice, wrote >can recall several cross-country trips made on tires that were only tires in >the academic sense...they were round and once made of rubber. It amazes me how ingenious people can be in keeping a vehicle moving. During the Somalia famine and civil war I saw many trucks running on tires that were made of braided grass, vines and general plant junk. The whole mess would be held in place around the rim with lashing after lashing of rope passed through the rim holes and around the "tyre". Sometimes I'd see what passed for a belted radial where the vegetable "inner tube" was held on by the remains of a rubber tire casing. By the way, there is a persistent legend in southern Somalia that a Land Rover carrying most of the country's gold reserves is lost out in the bush. It was known to have left Mogadishu at the height of the fighting between Aideed and Ali Mahdi being driven by a woman. It was apparently last seen in the Bardera region. Legend has it that it's half buried somewhere in the desert between there and Kenya. Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII Ottawa, Canada From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Feb 4 11:37:28 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 11:37:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: SPAM John, there is no Ellen Fox, and there are no other "students" telling us about this "wonderful" service. The spammer uses false names and addresses to give himself credibility. If you want to get to him, complain to his service provider. Sandy Grice has posted them, and maybe will do it again. There is every indication that the parasitic spammer is a subscriber to this list since he has reacted very quickly to changes and serious challenges to his actions. His address is krazykev@kjl.com, but sending stuff to him is probably a waste of effort and band width. I expect he is more than a little twisted, and is getting a lot of satisfaction from our reactions. Walt Davis, CA On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, John Y. Liu wrote: > OK, fellow LRO's, I know it's usually better to ignore spam, but please > listen for a second. > The spam referred to came from "ellenfox@cc.mice.uvr.edu". Sounds like a > student or employee of some school mis-using school equipment to spam, > probably for profit. It would seem simple enough to identify her school and > the administrator of the computer system she's using, and send (polite) > messages requesting she desist from spamming lest her net access be revoked. > But I tried Whois and could not identify the domain "uvr.edu". Can someone > better-versed in the workings of the Internet give this a try? From ericz@cloud9.net Sun Feb 4 13:16:37 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 13:16:37 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: SPAM Can I make a suggestion....? Why don't we heed the advice to ignore this spam....I find that each time someone spams the list, whether its intentional (krazykev) or unintentional (regards from Costa Rica), we spend too much time and effort writing about it. I subscribe to this list to talk about Land Rovers, not about some people who don't understand the net or their software. Its pretty disheartening to log on and see almost one half of the messages about spam. Just my humble opinion.... Eric From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Sun Feb 04 15:14:57 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 15:14:57 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Series: Frame Replacement Log: Week 4 Hi all, [ If anyone is coming in late, this is a running comentary of my progress in replacing the frame and bulkhead of my '66 IIa 88. ] Essentially, I was compleatly shut down last week by the artic cold that had much of the midwest in the deep freeze. The temps today hit 0 (thats *zero* F) for the first time in 6 days. I decided that it would cost me too much in fuel to try and bring the uninsulated garage up to working temp, and the frigid wind would just sap the heat from small cracks anyway. In the mean time, I put together a list of parts that I am going to be replacing, as well as did some reading up on upcoming aspects of the project. I put the list of parts that I can use spares or used parts for at the end of the entry, and if anyone has any of these, please let me know. Temps back up into the 20s and 30s this week, so I hope I can finally get the new frame painted and ready for the part transfer. Goal for the coming week is still the same, to get the frame painted and start working on the front axle components and steering - the steering relay will likley be the first big task. The Parts List (looking for used versions of these items): Driver (left) floor panel Bulkhead cowling tunnel cover spring u-bolts (all 8) splash/mud guards steering box cover axle bumpstops mud flaps side step wheel cylinders Thanks, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From Tebbin Salvesen Sun Feb 4 15:05:27 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 15:05:27 -0700 (MST) From: Tebbin Salvesen Subject: whois.pl?kjl.com (fwd) spam fyi ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 4 96 Feb EST 1919 Date: 4 Feb 96 19:36:41 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Mike Rooth Scores in LRO! Of course, HE won't tell us thics, but he's got a "Handy Rover Tip" box in the Letters section of January's LRO! Congrats, Mike - You've hit the big time! 8*) Aj"Jealous"r From Russell Burns Sun Feb 4 16:58:00 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 96 16:58:00 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road > By the way, there is a persistent legend in southern Somalia that a Land > Rover carrying most of the country's gold reserves is lost out in the bush. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > in the Bardera region. Legend has it that it's half buried somewhere in the > desert between there and Kenya. What type of Rover, it should have a good frame out in the desert... Russ Burns > By the way, there is a persistent legend in southern Somalia that a Land > Rover carrying most of the country's gold reserves is lost out in the bush. From Wdcockey@aol.com Sun Feb 4 20:36:36 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 20:36:36 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Billings UK show Billing '96 Info (from February '96 LRO magazine, p. 16): July 19-21, 1996 Camping available Thursday/Friday/Daturday nights. Fee for camping is 30# for 3 nights, LRO subscribers and 33# for 3 nights, others. Address to return booking form to is LRO (Billing '96), Anglian House, Chapel Lane, Botesdale, Diss, Norfolk IP22 1DT. Site is Billing Aquadrome, Northampton. According to '95 A to Z Road Atlas Billing Aquadrome is just south of Great Billing and Little Billing, east of the city of Northampton. Northampton is less than two hours north of London east of the M1. Billing Show is run by the former LRO mag. staff, not the current staff. A UK phone number to try is: 01379 890056 Fax: 01379 898244. From US drop leading 0 and dial 011 44 UK number. I understand the camping fills up quickly, and the booking form has been in the hands of LRO subscribers for several weeks now, so timely action is appropriate. Prehaps a phone call or fax would be in order. An alternative to camping is a B&B, usually in the 15#-18#/night. Our technique in Britain has been to look for signs if front of houses, or in a "tourist" area visit the local Tourist Info center. We've never used one of the directories, and my impression is that many that make the directories are more "inns" than homes. David Cockey From Dixon Kenner Sun Feb 4 21:44:09 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:44:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Mike Rooth Scores in LRO! On 4 Feb 1996, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Of course, HE won't tell us thics, but he's got a "Handy Rover Tip" box > in the Letters section of January's LRO! Mike is too busy outfitting the ex-RAF 101 for the Camel Trophy run to worry about articles in LRO... :-) BTW, Spencer sourced the BetaCam yet? Rgds, From "John Y. Liu" Sun Feb 04 19:26:25 1996 Date: Sun, 04 Feb 1996 19:26:25 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Frame Painting -- More Questions Well, I knew this would happen. I was under the Rover today priming the frame, and found myself also priming just about everything else in sight -- springs, axles, exhaust pipe, ties rods, etc. Which means I'll have to paint those parts, not much liking the brown primer color. The question is, what color was everything originally? I assume the frame was gloss black; much of the original paint is still present and that's what it is. Were the axles, springs, and tie rods, the same? What about the exhaust -- silver, black, or what? I recognize it is a time-honored tradition for 4x4s to show up with vermillion shocks, screaming yellow axles, neon pink frames, chrome tipped exhaust, and lights in the wheel wells. But I think that does not extend to Land Rovers. Still, perhaps there's some room for individuality here. What's the general sense of the boundaries of good taste? * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Y. Liu Los Angeles, CA johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE 1994 Feathercraft K-1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Sun Feb 4 23:07:10 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:07:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Florida Owners Association Forming!!! Howdy all! I am proud to announce to any and all interested owners and/or enthusiasts that a new Florida Owners group is forming and we already have plans on the drawing board for a rally in mid-march! If you would like to receive a copy of the newsletter or info on this new group, send e-mail with your pertinent info (address, phone #'s, type of LR, etc.) to me at: swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu or you may call me at the number below. or snail mail to: FLROA c/o Steve Swiger 2424 W. Tampa Bay Blvd #G-203 Tampa, FL 33607 Thanx! Pass the message along to anyone you might know that would be interested! Steve and the FLROA crew _________________________________ |_______|_______|_______|_______| "Moose" | ____________ | | \\ '73 III 88" | / | \ | | \\ ________ | | | | | | \\ | | | \______|_____/ |______|_______\\___|________|__ |___________________|_______________|---------------\ | [] [] [] | | 0 |) | |--] | | _| / OOOOO | | OOOOO |__ |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____| 0 OO o 0 o OO OO o 0 o OO OO o OO "Tread Lightly" OO o OO OOOOO OOOOO Florida Rover Canvas Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (813) 874-5391 From Dixon Kenner Sun Feb 4 23:15:12 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:15:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Frame Painting -- More Questions On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, John Y. Liu wrote: > I recognize it is a time-honored tradition for 4x4s to show up with > vermillion shocks, screaming yellow axles, neon pink frames, chrome tipped > exhaust, and lights in the wheel wells. But I think that does not extend to > Land Rovers. Still, perhaps there's some room for individuality here. > What's the general sense of the boundaries of good taste? Exhaust is rust, the rest is black underneath... From PurnellJE@aol.com Sun Feb 4 23:43:21 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 23:43:21 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Frame Painting -- More Questions In a message dated 96-02-04 22:50:07 EST, you write: >I recognize it is a time-honored tradition for 4x4s to show up with >vermillion shocks, screaming yellow axles, neon pink frames, chrome tipped >exhaust, and lights in the wheel wells. But I think that does not extend to >Land Rovers. Still, perhaps there's some room for individuality here. >What's the general sense of the boundaries of good taste? You now have the opportunity to set the new standard... the floor is yours, here are your 15 minutes... John. Blah colored undercarriage D90, (actually salt colored) From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Feb 4 21:24:25 1996 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 21:24:25 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Help >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc >I've stop receiving my list!!! Can someone help me get back on. I'm going thru withdrawals. >Gene >96 Discovery 5 speed w/character dent Gene... I would wait a few days and see if your mail gets sorted out. If not, then send a message to the MAJORDOMO address (see above). In the body of the message put subscribe land-rover-owner (for the real time list) or subscribe lro-digest (for the digest) Cheers Mike From Duncan Brown Mon Feb 05 00:12:42 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 00:12:42 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: D90SW spotted in Charlottesville, VA All, I was driving near the University of Virginia Hospital today and there, parked underneath an overhead walkway between buildings, was a dark green D90 station wagon. Hey, that thing's pretty sharp looking! I guess they'll sell a few, eh? (heh heh...) Anyone here on the list fess up to owning it? I want you to give me a ride in it if so (I'll trade you for a ride in my 1960 Series II 88!) Duncan, wondering why on earth LRNA doesn't offer more of them for sale, since it would almost certainly prove as much or more popular than the ragtop... From William Caloccia Mon Feb 5 01:28:29 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 01:28:29 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: everything underneath would have been painted black or rusted to start with. in some respects it is not considered good practice to paint certain suspension components (track rods, steering links) in that if there is a metal problem the paint can mask it. (fatigue cracks, etc.) From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Mon Feb 05 08:21:12 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 08:21:12 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Testing address.(Don't read) Sorry for wasting bandwidth, but had to test the new address. LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# "The Chameleon" |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From "Matthew Loxton" Mon Feb 5 07:28:18 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 07:28:18 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: diesel conversion I intend to replace the 3.5 petrol engine in a 198x Rangie, with a 3.9L diesel. This is mainly for (a) the better range per fuel load, (b) fewer fiddly electrical bits , (c.) I like being anachronistic. Besides the obvious mating of gearbox etc, does anyone see anything cockeyed about what I want to do? Also to you coal-burners around here, how does one set timing on a diesel, this is obviously a mechanical relationship of stroke distance vs something or other. Cheers Matthew S-III Yellow Peril South-Africa RR 198x, still looking From philippe.carchon@rug.ac.be (philippe) Mon Feb 5 10:31:51 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 10:31:51 +0100 From: philippe.carchon@rug.ac.be (philippe) Subject: kW Hello, can someone tell me how many kW a LR 88 in. SIII (Lightweight) is ? They need it in Belgium (in addition to the 2286 cc) for the insurance. They told me it's probably 52 kW. Is this right ? Thanks Philippe Carchon (philippe.carchon@rug.ac.be) Ghent, Belgium From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Mon Feb 05 12:03:55 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 12:03:55 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Test address(Don't read) Well, the header did say ** don't read **. But you were to curious, no? If this message is on the list, than the address I used to get this message on the list is:lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net Sorry for wasting bandwidth, but earlier send messages from my keyboard seem to be disappeared in cyberspace. LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# "The Chameleon" |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 5 96 Feb EST 1908 Date: 5 Feb 96 8:44:49 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Where is the Camel Trophy run this year? I realize that this is a bit off-track, but where is the Camel Trophy doing its masochism act this year? I have to figure out how to transport the 80.....oops.....8*) Aj"I didn't say ANYTHING....did I?"r From trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Mon Feb 05 08:10:04 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 96 08:10:04 EST From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: (frozen?) clutch Joseph Broach asks: >As I was passing by all the poor souls in our 14" of snow, the rover became increasingly difficult to shift. Finally it became jammed in >gear. Pushing the clutch has no effect. After limping home in 3-low, Did you check to make sure you didn't have the linkage packed with ice? I had that happen once on mmy series in really deep snow. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Mon Feb 05 08:24:31 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 96 08:24:31 EST From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: whois.pl?kjl.com (fwd) On Sun, 4 Feb 1996 15:05:27 -0700 (MST) you wrote: >spam fyi WHOIS GATEWAY _________________________________________________________________ Kevin Jay Lipsitz (KJL-DOM) PO Box 120990 Staten Island NY 10312-0990 Domain Name: KJL.COM Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Lipsitz, Kevin Jay (KJL2) krazykev@KJL.COM 718-967-1234 Record last updated on 25-Aug-95. Record created on 20-Apr-95. Domain servers in listed order: NS1.ABS.NET 206.42.80.130 NS2.ABS.NET 206.42.80.131 NS1.NET99.NET 204.157.3.2 >spam fyi Well, it looks as if the junk mailer is his own administrator and has his own domain. Hard to deal with that. However, the USPO frowns rather seriuosly on the use of the Postal Service for illegal activities. If indeed what he is doing is illegal (and someone can cite the statute) perhaps a list member in NYC could visit the Postmaster at the Staten Island station. I suspect that our mailer's used his PO Box for something related to his (illegal) Internet postings. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Mon Feb 05 08:26:07 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 96 08:26:07 EST From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road On Sun, 4 Feb 96 16:58:00 PST you wrote: Snip >What type of Rover, it should have a good frame out in the desert... >Russ Burns snip Well Russ, you've said it all. A good frame is worth more than a load of gold. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Mon Feb 5 06:51:36 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 06:51:36 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Frame Painting -- More Questions i believe the frame, diff housings axle housings, prop shafts, petrol tanks, springs, etc are a flat black. I've never seen a gloss black frame. The exhaust was unpainted. The shocks were whatever colour the manufacturer made them. Brake lines were unpainted. Brake backplate flat black. TeriAnn From Igor Cerutti Mon Feb 5 15:55:18 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 15:55:18 +0100 From: Igor Cerutti Subject: Re: kW At 10,31 5.02.96 +0100, you wrote: >can someone tell me how many kW a LR 88 in. SIII (Lightweight) is ? >They need it in Belgium (in addition to the 2286 cc) for the insurance. They >told me it's probably 52 kW. Is this right ? If your 88 SIII has a petrol engine: compression ratio 7:1 47.8 KW (64 BHP)(65.16 HP) compression ratio 8:1 51.5 KW (69 BHP)(70.25 HP) If your 88 SIII has a diesel engine: compression ratio 23.1 41.9 KW (56.2 BHP)(57.22 HP) kind regards ------------------------------------------------------------------ Real Name : Igor Cerutti Address : TINET Sagl, Centro Galleria 2, 6928 Manno-Lugano Country : Switzerland Phone Number : ++41 91 6108118 Fax Number : ++41 91 6108119 e-mail : igor@tinet.ch, http://www.tinet.ch From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 5 96 Feb EST 1909 Date: 5 Feb 96 9:40:57 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: -15F this morning.... Driving a Rover really stinks when the steering damper turns into a glue pot.....8*) ajr From "Tom Rowe" Mon Feb 5 09:40:43 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 09:40:43 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Frame Painting -- More Questions TeriAnn writes: > i believe the frame, diff housings axle housings, prop shafts, petrol tanks, springs, etc are a flat black. I've never seen a gloss black frame. The exhaust was unpainted. The shocks were whatever colour the manufacturer made > them. Brake lines were unpainted. Brake backplate flat black. The frame on my Lightweight is gloss black under the thick layer of NATO goo. My Rancho shocks I painted flat black and put on black boots because somehow the white & red didn't go with the overall camo scheme. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Duncan Brown Mon Feb 05 10:39:05 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 10:39:05 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: -15F this morning > Driving a Rover really stinks when the steering damper turns into a glue > pot.....8*) You have a Series Rover and it still has oil in the damper?!?!? Those crafty Land Rovers try to fix the above problem themselves by getting rid of all that potential molasses during the summer months... Duncan From William Caloccia Mon Feb 05 11:16:26 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 11:16:26 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road Russ writes: >What type of Rover, it should have a good frame out in the desert... Tome Rowe writes: > Well Russ, you've said it all. A good frame is worth more than a load > of gold. Well, there are other problems that have been discovered in the older, unrusted frames of desert L-Rs, (usually not privledged to have lived on-road): fatigue cracking of the frame ref: LRO Int'l Magazine, about two years ago. Cheers, -B From asd1@ukc.ac.uk Mon Feb 05 16:18:08 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 96 16:18:08 gmt From: asd1@ukc.ac.uk Subject: 2.8l ignition module ???? Did someone want a 2.8l Granada ignition module ?? If so I've got one from an old conversion, if whoever wants it gives us a bell they can have it ( no charge ). ASD asd1@ukc.ac.uk From Christopher Boese Mon Feb 05 08:29:34 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 08:29:34 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: magazine spam John Y. Liu wrote: > OK, fellow LRO's, I know it's usually better to ignore spam, but please > listen for a second(snip) > But I tried Whois and could not identify the domain "uvr.edu". This is because Kevin Jay Lipsitz, a.k.a. "Krazy Kev", who is behind these spams, spoofs the originating address of these messages. You will never find that any of these senders are real. Let me once again draw the attention of everyone who's interested to the Blacklist of Internet Advertisers at http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~cbrown/BL/. This describes this spam (and, sadly, many others.) If you don't have access to the Web, e-mail me and I'll forward the blacklist to you. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Discovery V8i From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Mon Feb 5 16:30:09 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 16:30:09 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Mike Rooth Scores in LRO! >Of course, HE won't tell us thics, but he's got a "Handy Rover Tip" box in the >Letters section of January's LRO! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >Letters section of January's LRO! >Congrats, Mike - You've hit the big time! 8*) Yeah,good try,but no cigar.There was a *much* better tip on checking the valve timing on a 2.25 diesel,that month:-( What pissed *me* off,was that this months prize tip was on how to clean your knobs........should,ve waited I suppose.Not that I was trying for any reward,you understand.But personally I prefer my red and yellow knobs to be a little subdued.Bit garish otherwise. Cheers Mike Rooth From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Mon Feb 5 16:39:23 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 16:39:23 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Mike Rooth Scores in LRO! >On 4 Feb 1996, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: >> Of course, HE won't tell us thics, but he's got a "Handy Rover Tip" box [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Mike is too busy outfitting the ex-RAF 101 for the Camel Trophy run > to worry about articles in LRO... :-) Yeah,tough job.The lathe,drill press,miller etc fit OK,but its the brick chimney of the forge that worries me,and where to put the anvil....... Cheers Mike Rooth From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Mon Feb 5 17:50:13 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 17:50:13 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Re: Where is the Camel Trophy run this year? > where is the Camel Trophy doing its masochism act this year? I have to figure out how to transport the 80.....oops.....8*) INDONESIA Too far to take an 80, don't you think? David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From Rick Grant Mon Feb 5 13:01:12 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 13:01:12 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Grant Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road At 08:26 AM 2/5/96 EST, Tom Rowe, wrote >Well Russ, you've said it all. A good frame is worth more than a load >of gold. This is beginning to sound like one of those unanswerable ethics questions. Just what would you do if you found an abandoned, cracked frame, Land Rover sitting out in the middle of bugger all with a load of gold and you could only save one or the other? Save the LR, or the gold? Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII Ottawa, Canada From "barnett childress" Mon Feb 5 13:33:50 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 96 13:33:50 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: D90 Swaybar Removal Hi all, O.K. I admit it! Curiosity finally got the better of me and I removed the front and rear swaybars from my D90 Saturday. The suspension definitely moves better, and the ride is smoother, not as harsh. Around town there is no difference in stability. On highway and cornering at speed I can't really notice any difference other than an "ever so slight" increase in body roll. I think the fact that I have the OME HD suspension and gas shocks is the reason why. There would probably be a bigger difference with vehicles that have stock springs and shocks. I tried to measure the wheel travel before and after the swaybar removal but this proved to be harder than I thought. I do know that when we jacked a wheel up the same distance without the swaybar opposite wheel stayed on the ground instead of lifting. I am going to run some trails here where I know I always lifted wheels and check it out! Cheers, Barnett Childress 95 D90 From Alan Richer 5 96 Feb EST 1913 Date: 5 Feb 96 13:59:41 EST From: Alan Richer Subject: Re: Where is the Camel Trophy run this year? >> where is the Camel Trophy doing its masochism act this year? I have to >figure out how to transport the 80.....oops.....8*) >INDONESIA >Too far to take an 80, don't you think? >David Olley NEver too far - as a matter of fact, I planned for it. It's got the optional Guinness-based Sea Rover conversion, having a CO2 system and its piping and the mountings for 10 Guinness kegs up both sides. These have 2 uses: 1) Floatation to get there: and 2). Drinking water (chuckle) supplies when enroute. The brass taps are a personally-added option, though. I liked them.... ajr From russ burns Mon Feb 5 11:28:53 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 11:28:53 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Where the rubber meets the road Hell, fix the frame, dip it in gold for rust protection. Russ >This is beginning to sound like one of those unanswerable ethics questions. >Just what would you do if you found an abandoned, cracked frame, Land Rover [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII >Ottawa, Canada Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From Paul Cooper Mon Feb 5 20:56:48 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:56:48 -0000 From: Paul Cooper Subject: RE: Billings UK show ------ =_NextPart_000_01BAF40D.A374C140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable With regards to locating B&B's The local Police station is required to carry a list of all registered = B&B's, Hotel's & Inn's so if you really get stuck you can ask them. I = have in the past and found them very help full. Paul ---------- From Michael Kirk Mon Feb 05 15:27:03 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 15:27:03 -0500 From: Michael Kirk Subject: Re: D90 Swaybar Removal FYI My 92 RR came without sway bars...never felt the need for them..... Michael Kirk 92 RR From ASFCO@aol.com Mon Feb 5 15:25:20 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 15:25:20 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Looking for 88" Ned; Hi... where in NY are you????I am near Albany...Have a 72 series lll may possibly be for sale in the near future...excellent condition...only use it a couple times a year...Green/white with tropical roof/Overdrive probably will be asking around $ 12,000 if and when I do decide to sell it. Rgds....Steve From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 5 16:02:18 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 16:02:18 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: re:re:frozen clutch >>how I can change gears in my series land rover if the clutch is not releasing Easy as pie. Accelerate in gear and back off the trottle when you reach the shift point. You should have no load on the gear box, braking or driving. Glide the lever into neutral (it'll slip out like it was greased), and then lower your rpm's (if your up shifting) or gently increase rpm's (if your down shifting) while you put gentle pressure on the shifter towards the gear you want. When the rpm's match (drive train side to engine side), BINGO, it just slips in with almost no force what so ever. The trick is matching the rpm's. With a little practice you won't even think about it and will never grind the gears. Actually, the real trick is idling (you can't). So driving through town is a process of timing lights, learning how to start your car in gear, reFrom mobart@coop.crn.org (The Barstow School) Mon Feb 5 18:15:09 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 18:15:09 -0600 (CST) From: mobart@coop.crn.org (The Barstow School) Subject: ARB Lockers I was one of the unfortunate people who got lockers with the defective U-seals. Talk about a maddening ordeal especially when the warranty retailer is 300 miles away in the middle of nowhere. Air lockers are nice....WHEN THEY WORK! From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Mon Feb 5 19:33:02 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 19:33:02 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: VTR National Convention This is not exactly Rover... but it might be of interest to some. The 1996 Vintage Triumph Register National Convention will be held in Albany NY, July 10 to 14 this year. It's a pretty good time if you like Triumphs - the last time for Albany was in 1989 and over 300 Triumphs showed up. The convention is being hosted by the Adirondack Triumph Association. This year they are holding the Concours on Saturday (Jul 13) in Central Park in Schnectady. The ATA has been hosting an all-British car show there for the past few years so this year they will have an area of the field for just Triumphs and another area of the field for other British cars. It would be nice to have a bunch of Rovers show up this year. One year we had seven - including Jim Pappas' 109FC - and the Land Rovers literally stopped the show. It's a dilemma for me - do I take the Triumph or the Rover?? Both, if I can! :) Anyone interested in more information, send me a message. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue #:-}> From JDolan2109@aol.com Mon Feb 5 23:16:40 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:16:40 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: re:frozen clutch Does the pedal have pressure? Is the system bleedable? And does the mechanical portion beyond the slave cylinder respond? And lastly, how cold was it? If it was _very_ cold, bleedable system w/no air, and no movement beyond the slave, then the following might help. Otherwise it could be worn pin fittings, as suggested, but that should have given warnings prior to failure. My experience last winter (when -30F) was that I had no clutch, a situation that I found very similarily to yours. I tried bleeding it, and was getting no air, only clean fluid. It turned out that the master cylinder seals had lost their resilience, or the bore had warped due to wear/age/cold. Apparently the seals were just moving through the fluid, and not giving enough pressure for clutch activity, but enough for bleeding. The master cylinder was honed and new seals placed. Everything worked fine... until this winter. Same temperature, same problem. I replaced the master cylinder this time, as well as the piping and the flex hose. The slave cylinder was replaced last Sept. during my 'trials by tranny' R&R fiasco. My suggestion would be, if any of the above makes sense, just replace the master, don't rebuild it. This year I verified the effects of temperature on 'the old bore' by applying a heat gun to the cylinder before replacement. Sure enough, the system became more active during the heating. Upon cooling (back down to about -18F), the problem re-worsened. (maybe a new word?). And yes it was that cold during the repair! Gee, it's great to be back. My clutch tip: I "saturnized" the clutch slave cylinder access hole in the foot well by cutting two *small* flaps that fold out of the way to enable quick and accurate turning of the bleeder by a 6 pt. box wrench. No more buggered points on the bleed nipple. It may be a 'tacky' thing to do, but it enables a 'speed bleed' when necessary (hopefully not soon!). see 'ya on the old road... jim '61 88" SW w/OD, weber 1 bbl & 16's (econobox?) LR... quite possible one of the best machines yet devised! P.S. am currently looking for used RR, (88 or prior vintage) From Roger Sinasohn Mon Feb 5 20:23:39 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 20:23:39 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Three Cheers, Sorry no Beers! > Now that Majordomo of the international list in the Bay Area maybe we > Left Coasters should introduce him to the Albatross (Berkeley) or > Hannigan's (Los Gatos) or the BBC (British Bankers' Club in Menlo > Park), whatever is most convenient. Or maybe the Edinburgh Castle in San Francisco? Anyone game? Maybe afterwork sometime? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From Treski@aol.com Mon Feb 5 23:39:21 1996 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 23:39:21 -0500 From: Treski@aol.com Subject: Re: ARB Lockers what the fuck!!!!!!! so iif i get them, they wont be defective?? cool what are you doing?? did you get the british pacific flyer? it has cool shit in it!11 call me -- tre From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 6 00:02:14 1996 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 00:02:14 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: ARB Lockers On Mon, 5 Feb 1996 Treski@aol.com wrote: > what are you doing?? did you get the british pacific flyer? it has > cool shit in it!11 Hi Taylor! From SACME@aol.com Tue Feb 6 00:29:54 1996 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 00:29:54 -0500 From: SACME@aol.com Subject: LR/marine connection and the Birmabright Brotherhood While seated on the throne today, I picked up one of the many marine supply catalogs I get and realized that it was loaded with 12 volt items that could fit well in our LR's. I won't use up precious bandwidth with a list, but simply encourage all to have a looksee. Marine products are designed to stand up to a saltwater environment, so they should do very well on even the salt-laden roads of the US northeast. (I was looking at the electric and compressor-type air horns - what fun to pull up behind a JGC or other faux-Rover and make a noise like the QE2!) 'Nother subject. I recently had a beautiful example of the way in which LR owners support each other. My son, Andy, left Maine on Sunday, 1/21, headed for college in Bronxville, NY, in our (his) newly purchased Series III. On I-84, just before I-684 that goes south toward NYC, the alternator froze up solid. Bang goes the fanbelt. It's about 9 p.m. on a Sunday...the pits! Andy had made it to an exit and was at a convenience store, which was just about to close. He called me in Maine and I suggested that he contact the local police, who would know the local motels and help him get a tow (his total possessions were in the car, including his computer - not what you want to leave just anywhere. After we hung up, I had the idea of going back over my LR digests and seeing if anyone was in the area where Andy was stranded. I found Eric Zipkin in Bedford, NY, who, thank God, includes his town and phone number in his digest messages. I called him, and I can only say that he was immediately ready to move heaven and earth to help a total stranger whose only credential was being stuck in a LR. He offered to dig his trailer out of a snowbank and go get my son and LR, and then put both up for the night. I had no way of getting back to my son and had to wait for him to call, and when he did he had gotten a motel room and had had the car towed. I gave him Eric's phone number and asked him to call him right away and express his and my thanks for the very generous offer of assistance. Eric, you are a golden example of what being a LR owner is all about. Please accept my deepest thanks - you lifted a great weight off a concerned father's shoulders, just by my knowing that you were ready to help if needed. To Eric Lipkin and all other LR (No, make that "Solihull Product" ) owners: If you are in the vicinity of Maine and have a problem, I will help. The coffee pot is on and the tools and shop are ready to go to work. A couple more items re the above and then I'll shut up...I promise. On Monday morning, at Eric's suggestion, Andy called Bryan Davies in New Preston, CT. Bryan not only delivered a new alternator to Andy at a pittance for the transport, but, after Andy and I made a valiant, but unsuccessful, attempt to get a bank to advance cash on Andy's AMEX card, agreed to let me send him a check. As a backup, I had called AB in Mechanicville, where I have been a customer for years, and they graciously agreed to vouch for my bill-paying character to Bryan Davies, should it be necessary - it wasn't. My thanks to Claudette at AB, and to Bryan for extending a whole lot of trust. Let's resolve to keep the "Birmabright Brotherhood of LR/Defs/RR/Disco's" going for a long, long, time! (RRs, Defs and Discos are Birmabright too, aren't they?). Doug Scott in Monmouth, Maine at 207-933-2220 and Andy Scott in Bronxville, NY at 914-323-6638. 2 ea. '72 Series III (one with a brand new "Lucas, Prince of Darkness" alternator!) From "ROGER HALL: HNL M.E. GROUP" Mon Feb 05 20:30:05 1996 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 1996 20:30:05 -1000 From: "ROGER HALL: HNL M.E. GROUP" Subject: Re: ARB Lockers I'm a new Rover owner and mailing list receiver having just bought my first Land Rover last week ('89 Range Rover with about 76K miles on it). So please bear with me while I ask what could be a dumb question. What in heaven's name IS an ARB Locker and does it matter if I don't know? Does it have anything to do with sports??? Roger Hall Haleiwa, Hi From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Tue Feb 6 11:11:20 1996 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 1996 11:11:20 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Re: Opening beer bottles >X-Sender: ccmjr@hpc.lut.ac.uk >Mime-Version: 1.0 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 160 lines)] >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>----- From "barnett childress" Tue Feb 6 6:49:25 1996 Date: Tue, 6 Feb 96 6:49:25 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:ARB Lockers Air lockers are a great From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Wed Feb 07 14:03:57 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 14:03:57 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Birmabright Brotherhood I begin to wonder how things are organized is the USA, e.g. when it comes down to stranded LR's. Here in the Netherlands, -9 C and 5 Beaufort NE, I can claim help from the Landrover Euro Assistance. One call and the car will be transported to the nearest LR dealer in Europe or a LR dealer by choice in the Netherlands, and will cost zero. If it's assumed to be a major breakdown, I'll get free transport to my homeaddress also. This stands only if you bought a brand new car though :-(. Neither have I ever seen any waving behind LR windscreens :-( P.S. nearly 10.000 km and zero problems. LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# "The Chameleon" |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From Easton Trevor Wed Feb 07 08:11:00 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 08:11:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Comradeship Doug Scott wrote of the assistance provided by LROs Eric Zipkin and Bryan Davies This prompts me to suggest that not only do we include a phone number with our sig, but why not create a list of LROs across the continent, or even the world, who can provide assistance, local knowledge etc to fellows in need. Maybe this could be included in the FAQ and available by email request also. Listing to include Name, Phone #s, vehicle(s) type of aid available, Geographic location, Town For Starters:- Trevor Easton teaston@dqc2.dofasco.ca 905 945 6128 Home 1-800-816-6333 ext 2926 office, Series IIA 88 and SIII 88, Roadside assistance, Directions, Some parts Niagara Peninsula along QEW Grimsby, Ontario My access is only via Email but I will collect this info if you post it to me or the digest and then maybe someone else can volunteer to add it to the Webpage. From "barnett childress" Wed Feb 7 8:11:53 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 8:11:53 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:: Series bench seats/Saftey Hi all, With regards to seats and seatbelts; I didn't mean to imply that people would be riding in the back without seatbelts because I am to cheap to buy them! If I only needed to sit two people and carried passengers on a regular basis I would be compelled to buy the factory forward bench with the shoulder harness. What I was trying to find out was if two people can really fit on those inward facing bench seats, and if that was true that I might start with one seatbelt per seat, (and only have one person sit on it), then add the second belts later to expand the seating to four people if I needed to! I was also wondering how the series vehicles that came with these seats were equipped with belts. It is not my intent to put anyone unnecessarily at risk! I am simply trying to make my LR as versatile as I can. With the two benches I could eventually carry more people if necessary, and also have the option of folding them up and having my cargo area free with no brackets on the floor, for hauling. Enough said? Barnett From Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Wed Feb 7 14:52:34 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:52:34 +0100 (MET) From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Re: transmission problems on 110 (no move!) Hello Michael, > :yesterday I got my first real problem with my 1989 110 diesel. > :The truck won't move any more, just gives a grinding noise. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > Turned out the clutch had shattered and the transmission was undamaged. > An easy fix with a new clutch plate and throwout bearing. Good luck! But why is it silent when the transmission/gear is in neutral? On the other side, I had some minor sound when beeing of the clutch in neutral in the last couple of months. Thanks Franz -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de From PurnellJE@aol.com Wed Feb 7 09:19:32 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:19:32 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Range Rover circa '89-90...humour content --do not download or read In a message dated 96-02-07 03:28:23 EST, you write: >. >, and an '86 Blazer S-10, lifted, with 33 inch >swampers -- or what my wife calls a major p___s extension but I digress). >. And I thought I had it bad when my fiance altered the name of my Def90 to the phallus... John, Phallus90, WiscoPhallus :") From PurnellJE@aol.com Wed Feb 7 09:19:06 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:19:06 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Range Rover circa '89-90 and brake pads In a message dated 96-02-07 03:28:23 EST, you write: >Or Land Rover and/or their distributors have a serious problem with >overhead. The retail price for a set of rear brake pads is $90. Again, the >manufacturer's cost can't possibly be more than $5.00 (after all, brake pads >are nothing more than 5mm steel stampings with asbestos pads glue to them). >. I had problems getting brake shoes for a '62 Corvair Turbo Spyder I had, found someone in Van Nuys California who made brakes, give them the backing plate and they would mount up the brake material, the good stuff. They specialized in race cars, and also updating drum-only sytems to better performance (thru chemistry :) ) by using quality material. While I can't say my Corvair was converted to disc type perf, I did get the shoes. I sure wish I had that receipt so I could post the name here, but a little phone book work, or talking to racers might net another similar place for youse guys in your own locales?? ...and mebbe cheaper than $90? John. Wisconsining. From "Andrew A. Dallas" Wed Feb 7 09:19:09 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:19:09 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: re:Plush vs. Heritage(series)/Suspensions I haven't heard anyone mention how much the air lockers cost with installation. Is anyone willing to admit how much it costs? -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Feb 07 09:37:22 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 09:37:22 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: GM diesels Having had firsthand experience with these engines during my stint in the Army, I can tell anyone who is interested in this choice to forget it. CUCVs are the workhorse vehicle in the US Army.They are basically no-frills GM pickup trucks and Blazers with GM 6.2 L Throttle body diesels. When I was stationed in Germany, we were just being phased in to these vehicles from the old Dodge pickups with gasoline engines. Seems the gasoline was too volatile and the carbed engines too wonky. My first impression of driving the truck was less than favorable. The 2 and a half ton 6x6 trucks were out-accelerating the CUCVs on the autobahn. In less than two months most of the trucks had developed classII leaks in their crankshaft seals. Bill Adams 3Dmentia computer animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington, MD 20895 301-949-9475 '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel ...all there From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Wed Feb 7 06:41:22 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 06:41:22 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: 4 cyl. engines vs. the v8's ----------------------------- Begin Original Text ------------------------ What are the 2.25 litre engines like? I am considering purchasing a newer Defender with the smaller engine in it and would appreciate any advice // comments. ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- I didn't think the 2-1/4L petrol engine was available in Defenders. If you live in a country where you have a choice of engines, the tdi diesl engine is supposed to be a good choice where brute power isn't needed and provide the lowest operating costs.. The old 2-1/4 petrol engine is heavy, under powered and doesn't get very good mileage. The newer 2-1/2L petrol engine has more power. I would test drive a V8 and a tdi then think about fuel costs. TeriAnn From Fred Ellsworth Wed Feb 7 09:51:05 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 09:51:05 -0500 From: Fred Ellsworth Subject: LR Supermarket Just wanted to let people in the US know about a good experience with LR Supermarket. Placed an order a week ago Friday afternoon and recieved it yesterday (7 working days). No problems, everything correct... and cheap. I was going to buy a rebuild kit for my Zenith carb, and LRS had the entire carb for only a few dollars more than the cheapest rebuild kit I could find in the US. Also speedo a cable for under $7, trans brake shoes under $9, etc. Good deal and shipping isn't even that bad. And no, I don't own stock... Fred '71 Series IIA 88" Boston, MA From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Feb 7 07:12:07 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:12:07 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: ARB's On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, "jean gruneberg" wrote: >AIR REBREATHERS - jeeeez everyone is a joker this morning. >Please be aware that some of us are trying to read this in the am >here 07:15 (05:15 GMT) and we may be trying to get some caffine into >the system and we might therefore choke laughing and we might >therefore spill out coffee and hurt ourselves. Oh my God! Who ever can we sue for that catastrophe? :) Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Feb 7 07:31:08 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:31:08 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Comradeship On Wed, 07 Feb 96, Easton Trevor wrote: >Doug Scott wrote of the assistance provided by LROs Eric Zipkin and Bryan >Davies [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Maybe this could be >included in the FAQ and available by email request also. Great idea! Lets go for it... Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Feb 7 07:31:11 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 07:31:11 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: re:: Series bench seats/Saftey On Wed, 7 Feb 96, "barnett childress" wrote: >Hi all, >With regards to seats and seatbelts; I didn't mean to imply that people [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >would be riding in the back without seatbelts because I am to cheap to buy >them! Sorry, I guess I worry too much :) Eric From William Owen Wed Feb 07 08:49:57 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 08:49:57 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Range Rover circa '89-90 -Reply Thanks for the encouraging response. From the prices I've seen it sounds like you got a pretty good deal. I currently have a Jeep Cherokee which I like but am ready for something a little more capable. The only other vehicle I really like is a Mercedes G-Wagen, but you have to go to New Mexeco to get one, and the early 80's models cost as much as a 90 RR. Think I'll stick to the Rangie. Thanks again for the fast reply and let me know if your impressions change. William. From debrown@srp.gov 07 96 Feb MST 1908 Date: 07 Feb 96 08:48:30 MST From: debrown@srp.gov Subject: New format of the digest! ;-) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 I *love* the new format of the digest!!! Much more readable. It'll help me keep up with the ever increasing number of submissions. Thanks for the upgrade! P.S. Regarding "netiquette", cheers! Let's keep this a "family" show. Dave (Phoenix high Today: 83) Brown #=======# _________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ //__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \__/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From "barnett childress" Wed Feb 7 10:29:31 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 10:29:31 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Plush vs. Heritage(series)/Suspensions Andy, Two air lockers, compressor, fitting for airing up tires, LR headlamp switch mounted to other side of steering colum to turn lockers on/off, LR rocker switch mounted under left side of instrument panel to turn compressor on/off, and labor, about $1700. I admit it and would do it again. Cheers, Barnett From "Dr. Ron Thomson" Wed Feb 07 17:27:31 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 17:27:31 +0000 From: "Dr. Ron Thomson" Subject: Nice to be back Having been castrated for the last few months, Alan Birkbeck and I (Ron Thomson) are back on the net. This posting is then both a test message and a request for advice. My problem is that my 1984 SIII 109, with a nice new Weber carb on its 2 1/4 petrol, doesn't like pulling up long gradual hills. It coughs, splutters (even when over the crest) and dies. However if I switch off, even for a few seconds, it restarts OK. I've thought of sludge in the fuel tank, vapour locks, etc etc but before I start stripping bits off - has anyone had the same problem. Curiously, a friend with an old(ish) car has the same problem, so it's not unique to LRs. Indicentally, us here in snowy (today) Glasgow Uni have started a GU Staff LR Club with a view to collective defence against ridicule. Anyone who's in our area, give us a call. If you have a web server, my home page is: http://www.mech.gla.ac.uk/~gnma35/ and Alan's is: http://www.mech.gla.ac.uk/~gnmb21/ Regards all, Ron 'n' Al From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Feb 07 12:34:17 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 12:34:17 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: Series Starter Problem .. or possibly a small >mammal. Ya know, Dave... Sometimes I wonder if maybe you're not just in a differant reality. Keep up the good work! It's tough, but hey... What i meant was that a small mammal could have been stuck in there, not using a small mammal to clean the rust. Although actually either one is pretty damn funny to think about. I like to think that there's animals all over the inside of my car, like, the squirrels in the heater, the mice that eat my upholstery and shit it out in little yellow crumbs, uhm, and the "I don't know what that keeps leaving little puddles on the dashboard. Actually thats just due to a "small" leak :-) There may also be a small screeching animal of some sort somewhere in the vicinity of the throwout bearing. Cheers Dave From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Wed Feb 7 18:21:16 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:21:16 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: DIFF LOCKERS >Two air lockers, compressor, fitting for airing up tires, LR headlamp >switch mounted to other side of steering colum to turn lockers on/off, LR >rocker switch mounted under left side of instrument panel to turn >compressor on/off, and labor, about $1700. Or you could consider the KAM Differentials unit. The complete unit (which you or a friendly mechanic fit) costs about $800. This includes Air Pump, pressure regulator, all pneumatic parts, the driving member, the complete carrier(heavy duty, with all internals) and one strengthened replacement long half shaft. The strengthened half shaft is important when the unit allows all of the available torque to be transmitted to just one shaft, and KAM are wise to recognise this. One neat little feature is that should the compressor or an airline fail, the Lock can be manually engaged/disengaged from under the vehicle. They also supply strengthened short half shafts, as well as a range of crown wheel ratios. The company (based in England) has a history of making trans units and gears for motor sport, and can supply axles for all Land Rovers. They will be at Billing. I am not connected to the company, but happen to have their literature here. More info available if you want it. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Wed Feb 7 18:27:54 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:27:54 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Series Starter Problem There >may also be a small screeching animal of some sort somewhere in the vicinity of >the throwout bearing. Yeah, I think I have one of those. I think it must have climbed in when I replaced the thrust bearing (that's what we limeys call it). Can anyone tell me why I get this screaching when the clutch is depressed. It only happens when the engine is cold. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com Wed Feb 07 13:37:29 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 13:37:29 -0500 From: /G=Curtis/S=Palmer@mhs-olympics.attmail.com Subject: Re: Renewed Traditions - Imported Vehicles From jpappa01@interserv.com Wed Feb 7 10:21:47 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:21:47 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Misc. 1) This week's AUTOWEEK announced that the 1998 RR will have the BMW V-12 as an engine choice! No official word from LRNA at this point... 2) D90 SW virtually gone. Metro West has no more allocated cars. Saw an SW advertised in last week's Sunday Boston Globe for 39,500!! Yeoww! List price was 32,625! 3) BSROA is sponsoring a Winter Driving Course at Rovers North Off Road the weekend of Feb 16-18. Max. group size is 18. We currently have 15 signed up. Any Club members on the list who are interested - please email me at once or call Club line at 617-545-4743. 4) The upcoming UK Pilgrimage Tour IV will, as usual, attend the ARC International Rover Rally. The additional highlight of this year's tour will feature a "Lost Wales" tour to the mountains of Wales with the ubiquitous David Bowyer as our guide. This will be a four-day tour and will include some fabulous scenery as well as some difficult four-wheeling to boot. All club members will receive a flyer this month launching this event. We expect a record turnout this year... 5) Winterfest IV was held last weekend at our usual venue - North Conway, NH. The snow was outstanding which made for great powdery skiing at Attitash on Saturday. Sunday we all rented brand-new Polaris 550 cc sleds and took to rte. 19 for four hours of breathtaking scenery and 50 mph spurts on the straightaways. Only one member got launched from her sled -fortunately no injury!! All of the Rovers present - two D90s, a 4.0SE, and an LWB performed brilliantly in the -10F deep freeze! cheerz Jim - still shivering... `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From Alan Richer 7 96 Feb EST 1913 Date: 7 Feb 96 13:42:03 EST From: Alan Richer Subject: Re: Nice to be back Re: Weber follies: Only thing I can think of here is perhaps carburetor icing. I've had similar problems. The other thing to check is fuel pump output volume. May well be that you're not pushing enough gas to the carb to keep the bowl full under full load (i.e.: Long hills). There's a procedure in the LR manuals to test for sufficient fuel pump volume and pressure of delivery. Just my tuppence worth... -ajr From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Wed Feb 7 10:57:49 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 10:57:49 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Nice to be back ----------------------------- Begin Original Text ------------------------ My problem is that my 1984 SIII 109, with a nice new Weber carb on its 2 1/4 petrol, doesn't like pulling up long gradual hills. It coughs, splutters (even when over the crest) and dies. However if I switch off, even for a few seconds, it restarts OK. ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- Those symptoms can happen if you have a fuel filter that is almost clogged or if your points have slipped. I would look both places first. If you take off the glass sediment bowl and you have not recently replaced the rubber gasket between the sedimate bowl and pump, get a new one before removing the bowl. They harden over time and then almost never reseal once they are hard. If you look at the venturi of a single venturi Webber and the Zeneth that (I assume) came on your car, you will notice thet the Webber's venturi is a lot smaller that the Zeneths. Because of this, you will have less power available to you from the engine, but better petrol milage. Everything's a trade off. TeriAnn From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Wed Feb 7 11:01:53 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 96 11:01:53 PST From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: ARB Lockers (longish) The best description I've read of differential lockers is on the web. Check out: http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/A/Diff.locks.html I've got ARB's front and rear of my D90. I've gone out with a number of stock D90's. ARB's do make very difficult obstacles easier. The stock D90's get through but they may have to manuver a bit more. Require a push/pull or some judicious placement of helper rocks. On medium difficulty stuff the D90s just cruise through anyway. It was a big shock re-learning to drive when my rear lockers U-seal went out mid-trip once. Instead of making sure one wheel had traction I had to think about getting traction and weight on one front and one rear simultaneously. I try now to use my lockers as infrequently as possible. They do stress the drivetrain if there is traction available to more than one wheel. Probably over used them at first. (New toy syndrome...) ARB paid for parts and labor to fix the seal. I've found places where I could not go without front and rear lockers. They are very very rare and usually somewhat artificial. (Like a obstacle in a gravel pit as opposed to one on a trail.) Conversely I've also been in a stituation where I could not follow an unlockered D90 up a very powdery hill. I think he had more weight is his is bed and probably is a better driver. The other thing I've found about lockers is that when you do get stuck you are very, very stuck. Overall I glad I purchased ARB lockers. They are not essential equipement however. -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Wed Feb 7 14:44:33 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 14:44:33 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: Where is it? I know the Major got marching orders but I checked my configuration thought I was OK. Have received NO digests since 1 Feb. What gives. If I need to re-subscribe please let me know. Lost w/o the DIGEST From Michael Carradine Wed Feb 07 13:23:57 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 13:23:57 -0800 From: Michael Carradine Subject: LR Records (was: BMIHT Build Records) At 03:52 PM 2/7/96 -0500, Steve ? wrote: :All pre-1980 Land Rovers can get a birth certificate that tells the :original destination, factory supplied equipment, date and time of :completion, color, and anything else noted in the records. We have the :forms here and can fax/mail them to whomever wants one. Cost is $40.00, :paid to BMIHT (British Motor Industry Heritage Trust, who holds the old :company records). What happened at the dealer on is not available through :this service. This can also be done with most other British cars as well. : :Steve/BRITPAC For Land Rovers you can get this for FREE by writing to: Mr. John Riley +44-121-722-2424 Land Rover Project Eng., Traceability +44-121-742-1927 Fax LAND ROVER +44-121-700-4806 JR Direct Line Lode Lane, Solihull West Midlands B92 8NW From the USA dial 011 first England then the number above Mr. John Riley will write back on *official* multi-coloured Land Rover stationary describing the particulars of your vehicle based on its VIN number. Most likely he will include a photocopy of the official factory record page on which your vehicle is listed (suitable for tracing its immediate next of kin :) Cheers, ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From compuserve <72647.2641@compuserve.com> 07 96 Feb EST 1917 Date: 07 Feb 96 17:00:39 EST From: compuserve <72647.2641@compuserve.com> Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe 72647.2641@compuserve.com From "Magpantay, Larry" Wed Feb 07 15:16:00 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 96 15:16:00 PST From: "Magpantay, Larry" Subject: FW: New From benedick@pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Wed Feb 7 18:25:39 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:25:39 -0500 From: benedick@pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Subject: Help! 55-65:Rough Ride First: Forgive me if this "problem" has been addressed lately and I missed it. Thank-you My 94 Disco. (auto)starts to "shake" and drive "rough" when I get to 55 and continues through 65. It's more like a very quick, repetitious, semi-violent shaking. Kinda (and this is comming from a non-mechanic person) like there is a clog in the fuel line. I don't think it's a feul problem, because it only happens between 55 & 65. It is probably in overdrive when this is happening. Any ideas? and has anyone else had this and if so, what did they do for it? I have a doctors' appt. (service appt.) for it in 2 weeks and I like to have an idea before it goes. You can e-mail me direct:benedick@pa.net if you wish, please mark any returns with a high priority. (It will help me to see it over all the other rover stuff) Thanks to all! Kris 94 Disco. in Pa. From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Feb 7 18:41:48 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:41:48 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Used Range Rovers Continuing the quest for a reasonably-priced Range Rover, I've come across an 89 with 114k miles on the clock. The difference in the amount of frame rust between this one (southern vehicle) and the previous, over-priced one (a '90 county with 78k miles...but from New York) is like night and day. Haven't had the opportunity to check all the fluids, but I did drive it. OK, except for the oil fluid level light which flicker/stays on, despite an adequate level. It is an oil level light, not oil *pressure* right? (Center of the binacle.) Anyway, he's asking $13,400, but I'm concerned about the high mileage. The fuel tank has been replaced (last week), but the power steering pump is original. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Feb 7 19:50:05 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:50:05 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: diesel conversion (Olds diesel) >It lists an Oldsmobile V8 diesel for a RR. The Oldsmobile V8 diesel (5.7 litre I believe) was based on the Olds (not Chevy) gasoline V8 and had several problems, most notable a tendency to break the crankshaft. I believe most of these problems were rectified by the time the engine went out of production, but by then the reputation was established. I wouldn't recommend it for conversions. BTW the later 6.2 litre and 6.5 litre GM V8 diesels used in light trucks were COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ground up diesels, and not base on a gasoline engine. David Cockey Rochester, MI From CBBIII@aol.com Wed Feb 7 19:54:45 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:54:45 -0500 From: CBBIII@aol.com Subject: Re: Used Range Rovers Howdy! I have had several Rovers, and one I would part with to the right home! It is a late '90, 74K., Fire Engine Red, Tan Leather, all the toys. Great auto! I live in NC, so no rust!! Make an offer I suppose! Keep On Rovering! C Baxter From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Feb 7 19:58:09 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 19:58:09 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: diesel conversion (GM diesels) >They did later >produce a much better 6.2 Litre V8 diesel that has held up reasonably well, >and has been enlarged and possibly even improved along the way. The GM 6.2 litre diesel was redone with many improvements and became the GM 6.5 litre diesel. Both naturally aspirated and turbo versions have been built. The turbo has a fair amount of power. This engine is used in C/K pickups, Suburbans, etc, and G-Vans. The army HUMVEE and civilian Hummer use GM diesel V8s. Two companies in Britain, Coastal Engineering and Safari Engineering, offer 6.2 litre conversions in Range Rovers. I saw on conversion in a Range Rover and it looked reasonable except for the exhaust manifold which appeared restrictive. I understand at least one of these companies uses ex-U.S. Army engines. David Cockey Rochester, MI From Bruce.Curtis@sun.com (Bruce Curtis) Wed Feb 7 16:59:02 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 16:59:02 -0800 From: Bruce.Curtis@sun.com (Bruce Curtis) Subject: Re: Where is it? > From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) > Subject: Where is it? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > digests since 1 Feb. What gives. If I need to > re-subscribe please let me know. > Lost w/o the DIGEST I just fixed a sendmail.cf problem that caused some systems to not accept messages sent from the new Land-Rover.Team.Net (the end line of a message was a "." not a ".\r\n" as the SMTP protocol requires (but many sendmail implementations don't require). At any rate, i fixed it as of 10:44 PST so things should be better now. Later, Bruce ('95 Disco). -- Bruce W. Curtis brutus@Eng.Sun.COM SunSoft, Internet Engineering http://www.badrc.org/~brutus 2550 Garcia Ave, MS MPK17-202 (415)786-5147 Mountain View, CA 94043-1100 FAX:(415)786-5896 From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Feb 7 20:01:19 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:01:19 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: diesel conversion In a message dated 96-02-06 20:56:04 EST, you write: >IF IT'S MADE BY GM, IT'S CRAP Hi, I work for GM and was wondering if you have had any recent bad experiences with GM, or your comment is just in general. David Cockey Rochester, MI From Ed Chambers Wed Feb 7 18:56:41 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 18:56:41 -0600 From: Ed Chambers Subject: RE: diesel conversion Someone wrote: 110's in Oz were sold for a long time with a factory fitted Isuzu 3.9L = diesel (4BD1 is its Isuzu designation)in place of the 3.5L V8. I know that part = of my bellhousing (I have an LT95 4sp with factory Isuzu 3.9D) has a part# stamped on it beginning with AYG (I'd have to crawl under it to get the = rest) which I understand is the prefix for special Australian parts for the = Isuzu. I've also heard of RR's being converted to 3.9D (not factory). Even from inside Oz it would be hard to get the factory bits second hand = 'cause very few diesel 110's get wrecked (and they don't rust into the = grave). Have you seen Marks 4WD (an Oz co who specialise in engine conversion = kits) web page at: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~marks4wd/index.html It lists an Oldsmobile V8 diesel for a RR. Perhaps US readers can = enlighten us as to this engine. I seem to remember hearing that some early GM = diesels were just modified Chevy petrol V8's and were complete dogs. I hope = that Marks isn't undermining the good reputation of Aussie engineering. Regards James Carley Water Research Laboratory University of New South Wales Sydney, Australia And I wrote: I owned an Oldsmobile with the 5.7Litre diesel. It was by far the worst = engine I have ever had the misfortune of having in a vehicle. This is = basically a converted 350 cu. In. petrol engine. A set of glow plugs = would only last about 20,000 miles. My engine went through two fuel = injector pumps (which were fortunately covered by warranty) and the = engine leaked oil from every single place that two pieces of metal came = in contact, even the places where there were gaskets. I would definitely NOT recommend this engine, or any other GM product, = for that matter. I would consider a lawn-mower engine before a GM = product. If you're looking for a replacement engine, maybe check out = Cummins or one of the VM Turbotronic engines. Some of the other LR = diesel owners could probably better recommend a decent engine. Regards, Ed Chambers eec@interaccess.com From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Feb 7 20:03:02 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:03:02 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: diesel conversion (comment on GM) MISTAKE The previous message was sent to LRO by mistake, and was intended to be personal E-mail. The new system confused me. David Cockey From Lloyd Allison Thu Feb 8 12:46:43 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:46:43 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Camel tropy Disco Phillip Simpson has some nice pictures of the Camel Disco' at BMIHT (Gaydon) at http://www.sofcom.com.au/4WD/4WD.html plus other items from the collection Lloyd From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Feb 07 22:17:29 1996 Date: Wed, 07 Feb 1996 22:17:29 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Speaking of Diesels.. Saw an ad for a FORD pickup with a Power Stroke 7.3 L Direct Injection (wow like that's new) Turbo diesel. 210 HP. Unaided starts to -20 F. Now THAT's a penis extender if I ever saw one. Can we shoehorn it into a Series 2A ? UGHHH ! *** 'Course the half shafts would need to be stronger.....*** Bill Adams 3Dmentia computer animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington, MD 20895 301-949-9475 '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel ...all there From Jeff & Laura Kessler Wed Feb 7 22:33:13 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 22:33:13 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Re: Misc. - BMW Discovery At 10:21 AM 2/7/96 -0800, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >1) This week's AUTOWEEK announced that the 1998 RR will have the BMW V-12 as >an engine choice! No official word from LRNA at this point... I have not seen that issue of AUTOWEEK yet, but the 24 January 1996 issue of AUTOCAR is very interesting. In an article on future plans, it states the next generation Disco, due in late 1997, will also be built in the US at BMW's new plant in South Carolina and badged as a BMW. The plan is to build 30,000 to 35,000 per year to be sold though BMW dealers. According to the article, BMW desires to boost Disco sales as quickly as possible. Since LR has few dealers, the quickest way to get more exposure is to sell the Discos though BMW dealers as BMWs. The differences will be mostly trim and new (BMW type) grille and some adjustment of the ride and handling. Engines will be the same Rover (ex-GM) V8 and a new 5 cylinder TD. Rover is developing a new V8 called the KV8 with a 3.3 to 3.5 liter displacement and 190 to 245 hp that could end up in future LRs. The article states BMWs current V8s to be unsuitable for off road use since their "ancillaries are too vulnerable." Also by 2005 BMW hopes to have a common engine line up across the four marques (BMW, LR, MG and Rover). The article also talks some about LR's new slightly smaller model, the CB40, due early 1997. The issue also had a comparison test of the Disco with the new to UK Jeep Grand Cherokee and they rated the jeep better then the Disco overall (not off road though). Jeff Kessler 1988 Range Rover Newport New Hampshire 603-863-7883 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Feb 7 22:58:59 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 22:58:59 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Scouting carbs David Rosenberg wrote about his Scout: > -carb needs adjustment? IIts a tiny 'early' Holley. Only adj. look like choke.... AND IT FITS A ROVER! The Holley 2494AAS (IH # 890774R91) that fit Scouts from '60 to '64 is an almost exact replacement for a Zenith. I ran with on for about six years and got phenomenal mileage on an 88. All time high (documented) mileage was a tad over 27! Bought it for $65 when a new Zenith was over $200. Unfortunately, it is out of production. *IF* you can find one, mounting is simple. The holes on the base need to be elongated by about 1/64" to fit the studs on the manifold, and if you attach a small piece of bar stock to the throttle arm, the entire Series III linkage mechanism can be used stock. And as long as we're talking scout parts, the spindle nut lock tab washers from IH are superior, but an exact repalcement for, Rover's. Ask for part IH #860291R1. You'll be glad you did. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From skillman@clark.net (Robert E Skillman) Wed Feb 7 23:13:16 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:13:16 -0500 From: skillman@clark.net (Robert E Skillman) Subject: Re: Range Rover circa '89-90 You may want to consider a 87-88 Range Rover also. I have an 87 which I find has advantages over later models. An 87 used regular octane, 88 and up are supposed to burn premium, saving $.20 per gallon. 87 & 88 RR has the LT230 transfer gearbox as used on 90s and 110s instead of the BW viscous unit. In the long run I think the LT230 will be less trouble. The ZF trans in the 87 locks up at around 40 MPH vs 50 MPH in 88 and later,better in sub-highway roads. I havent missed ABS (90 on?) as tires are great (hope replacements are as good). ABS could get expensive in repairs are needed. The 3.5 does fine in most driving although I would like more power at times. The A/C may be a little better in later models but mine cools fine. I have upgraded the suspension with the RR kit (sway bars, shocks,springs), Replaced the headliner by removing it and taking it to an upholstery shop. Its wider than most SUVs and cost me about $150. Its been dependable beyond fault and I do all my own maint. and minor repairs. I paid 13.5K for mine in 92. I offered 13K as is but the owner said it would pass MD inspection fine, so I coughed up the extra 500. He had to replace the exhaust system from convertors back ($1800 parts) and brake rotors ($450 parts, $700 labor). So work can be expensive. I paid $130 for all 4 brake pads from local RR dealer. Needed a power door activator for $130, other stuff just routine. What to watch for: brakes and exhaust! - sagging headliner - engine hoses(crankcase, emission canister etc) get hard and brittle - interior trim better than most but not indestructible, replacements available - bushings affect suspension more than you'd think, may need replacement If maintained properly I feel these things will last forever. Bob Skillman, Ellicott City MD 87 RR (deserve some time in heaven) 47 MGTC, 68 MGC (because I've spent some time in hell) From Atlanta67@aol.com Wed Feb 7 23:14:46 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:14:46 -0500 From: Atlanta67@aol.com Subject: Renewed Traditions Fellow LR lovers let me introduce myself, My name is Sean Sinkule, I own a company called Renewed Traditions. I specialize in importing to North America refurbished LR's. Our facility in England has been creating refurbished and specialty LR's for a number of years and decided it was about time the LR starved US got some vehicles. I take great pride in the vehicles I import and and hope I can do the marque justice. I have listed below(in as short a form as I could) some of the pricing associated with these vehicles. I have just recently subscribed to this forum and I hope that this listing of information is not overstepping my bounds. I welcome the through inspection of my vehicles and any opinions good or bad that any of you may have. I would like to thank everyone for their positive responses relating to our business relating to the sale of refurbished Land Rovers. The overwhelming request in the E-mails we have received have related to price and availability. You can order any refurbished Land Rover from our specification sheets with as many or as few options you would like. You can then pick the paint color, interior color and material you would like. From the time of order to time of delivery to our Atlanta GA facility is usually 6 weeks. Our basic refurbishment includes: Inspection of ALL areas of vehicle Replacement or refurbishment of any items that do not meet our high standards Replacement or shot blasting and recoating of frame Inspection and renewal of engine and transmission as necessary Inspection and renewal of any worn suspension components New carpet, seats, door panels, and headliners New paint [Please contact Sean directly at ATLANTA67@AOL.COM for a description of avalable vehicles -wpc] We also have a selection of over 60 assorted used Land Rovers at our Facility in England, any of which we will be happy to import for you as is, or refurbish to your specification. Photos and video available for most vehicles, Again we always have over 60 vehicles in stock so call for availability of any Land Rover. Sean Sinkule Renewed Traditions E-mail ATLANTA67@AOL.COM Phone (770)392-1593 From WAHORN@aol.com Wed Feb 7 23:24:54 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:24:54 -0500 From: WAHORN@aol.com Subject: OVERDRIVE O.K. Here goes, don't everyone laugh at the same time but does anyone have a used overdrive for a IIA they are willing to part with, Either sell outright or trade for a PTO driven winch? Ashley Horn JAX FL U.S.A. From ROBJCOHEN@aol.com Wed Feb 7 23:32:09 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 23:32:09 -0500 From: ROBJCOHEN@aol.com Subject: More info on CB40 This is to follow up David Cockeys February 2nd posting outlining some strange goings-on at Land Rover regarding the CB40 as he saw in Autoweek Magazine. From the February edition of Car Magazine (the UK version) the article (reproduced *without* permission!) is titled RAV-rivalling Landy is too big: Land Rover has run into a fundamental problem with its all-new off-roader: its too big. Codenamed CB40, it was intended to rival Toyotas RAV4 and put the prestigious Land Rover badge within reach of more buyers. But the first CB40 prototype is almost as big as the Discovery and BMW bosses fear it will eat into existing sales, especially as it will be cheaper than the new Disco, due out in 1997. Consequently, Rover Group boss Wolfgang Reitzle has ordered the Discoverys development plan to be re-thought so that it is distanced from the CB40. Insiders say it is too late to change CB40 because it is only a year away from production and will hit the roads before the facelifted Discovery, which is codenamed Tempest. It is likely that the revamped Discovery will have to be positioned further upmarket and given a more radical external look. At the moment the Tempest is said to differ little from the existing Discovery, aside from its greater rear space and more modern interior. Those who have driven CB40 say it is impressive despite being a parts-bin special. It will be launched to the public at the Birmingham motor show, this autumn. Land Rover insiders have also revealed that the company is experimenting with the six-speed sequential gearbox in the Range Rover. The new box is being run in conjunction with BMW straight-six and V8 petrol engines. Engineers are also working on a much needed-power boost for that cars 2.5 -litre BMW turbodiesel engine. There is also a sketch of the vehicle. If anyone would like a fax copy, just send me e-mail. Rob Cohen Boston, MA robjcohen@aol.com Looking for a 70+ SIII SWB From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Wed Feb 7 20:52:37 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 20:52:37 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Misc. - BMW Discovery I wonder how the people on the BMW mail list will react to a bunch of 4X4 Bimmer plushmobile owners...and PLEASE don't say they should have a home in the Land Rover list maybe this is all just a bad dream TeriAnn From "John C. White, III" Wed Feb 7 21:03:52 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:03:52 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Birmabright Brotherhood That's how it works over here, too. If you own a new Land Rover that's still on warranty, you call a toll-free phone number that connects you to Land Rover North America, and they send assistance. Once you're off warranty, you have to pay for this service. The story you saw here on the Net was an example of the Good Samaritanism -- one Land Rover owner going out of his way to help another in need. Kind of gives you hope for mankind, doesn't it? Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 14:03 07.02.96 +0001, Roy Wassili wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 29 lines)] > |] __=| | __ |# >[|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] > ( o ) ( o ) From "John C. White, III" Wed Feb 7 21:12:22 1996 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 1996 21:12:22 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Misc. - BMW Discovery All subsequent posting will be in German. Prost! John At 20:52 07.02.96 -0800, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >maybe this is all just a bad dream >TeriAnn From "Anthony John E. Maravilla IU-Med3" Thu Feb 08 00:56:37 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 00:56:37 -0500 From: "Anthony John E. Maravilla IU-Med3" Subject: Re: Misc. - BMW Discovery I must agree with Teri Ann. It is a terrible thought that the Discovery will no longer be a Land rover exclusive. But I guess in all this craze with 4x4's and now that Benz will be getting on in the market next year, I am sure BMW is feeling the pressure. Hopefully the Bimmer Dico will not go on market. John Maravilla '95 Bronze Discovery LLRR! (Long Live Land Rover!) From ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon) Thu Feb 8 00:53:29 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 00:53:29 -0600 From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon) Subject: Chicago Auto Show Hiya Fellow LROs! Is anyone going to be at the McCormick Center (Chicago, Illinois) on saturday for tFrom michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Thu Feb 8 08:01:54 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 08:01:54 GMT From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Subject: Camel Trpohy Trivia Hello all, I've been wondering for some time about the utility of a piece of equipment found on Camel Trophy vehicles that I never saw on any other vehicle. It's those two steel cables going from the bullbar to the roofrack. I tried, in vain to find a reason to justify the presence of these, and have come up with a few possibilities. What do you think? So here it goes: 1)Genuine Camel Trophy 300$ "adventure wear" clotheline or washing line. The heavy-duty pants and socks would dry in about 45 minutes at an average speed of 50 MPH. If the road is bumpy, tumble-dry-mode is then automatically engaged. 2)Heavy-duty Lucas ground cable for the 4 spotlights on the roofrack. According to Lucas, a 4 gauge ground wire is the only way to guarantee working spotlights for more then three weeks. 3)Bull-bar retaining safety cable. In case of Bull-bar failure upon which it shall break-off from the vehicle, the bull-bar retaining safety cable shall prevent from losing it in the jungle alike the strap going around the ankle found on 60's and 70's downhill ski bindings. It is then possible for the Camel Trophy team to retrieve the bull-bar being attached to the roofrack and safely re-install it on the vehicle. 4)Roofrack retaining safety cable. Same as above, interchanging the word "bull-bar" with "roofrack"and "roofrack" with "bull-bar" 5)Spare choke cables. For the non-diesel engined vehicles, two spare choke cables are fitted in case of failure (which happen very often). For the diesel engined vehicles, the spare choke cables are replaced with spare trhottle cables. 6)Hi-Tech TV antenna, replacing the traditionnal satellite dish. Equipped with such antenna, the TV room in the vehicle can supply its occupants with more than 400 different channels, justifying the plushmobile aspect of the vehicle. 7)The real reason why those cables are installed. Can somebody enlighten me on this, please. I would really like to know. Sorry for the bandwith, hope you enjoyed reading. Michel Bertrand Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada 63 109 PU Rudolph 68 109 SW (in the works) 73 88 SW (21st century project) From "John Y. Liu" Thu Feb 08 05:21:09 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 05:21:09 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: 4 cyl. engines vs. the v8's At 10:16 PM 2/6/96 -0500, you wrote: >As a RR owner with no personal experience with the Series Vehicles, I have a >question: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >I am considering purchasing a newer Defender with the smaller engine in it >and would appreciate any advice // comments. Hank, the US Defender only comes with a V8. The 2.25 liter is not an option. I believe the V8 would be identical or similar to the one in your RR -- maybe different displacement, I'm not sure. * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Y. Liu Los Angeles, CA johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE 1994 Feathercraft K-1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "John Y. Liu" Thu Feb 08 05:21:04 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 05:21:04 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Birmabright Brotherhood and now Member List At 01:29 PM 2/6/96 -0500, you wrote: >>I seem to recall a recent survey of list members, their locations, and what >>assistance or hospitality they could offer other LR owners in a pinch. Were >>the results gathered anywhere? >Wasn't that member list compiled from the Left Coast list (mendo-recce), not >this one? Yes, you're right. Someone emailed me a copy and I can send it to you if desired. * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Y. Liu Los Angeles, CA johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE 1994 Feathercraft K-1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "John Y. Liu" Thu Feb 08 05:21:24 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 05:21:24 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: FC101 campervan conversion At 09:12 AM 2/8/96 +0000, you wrote: >I'd really like to hear from anyone who has seen, used, or even >undertaken a campervan conversion of the FC101 battlefield ambulance. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >in the UK, originally manufactured in '72 (???) for about 5000 pounds >sterling, but what would I then be letting myself in for? I have no personal experience, but have read that the FC101 does not share most parts with other Land Rovers. Thus parts availability in certain areas might be worse for the FC101 than, say, a 110 w/ ambulance body. * * * * * * * * * * * * * John Y. Liu Los Angeles, CA johnliu@earthlink.net KE6GPF 1962 LandRover 109 SIIA 1978 Mercedes 280CE 1994 Feathercraft K-1 * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "John C. White, III" Thu Feb 8 05:56:41 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 05:56:41 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Misc. - BMW Discovery At 11:22 08.02.96 +0000, Richard Jones wrote: -- Anthony John E. Maravilla writes: I must agree with Teri Ann. It is a terrible thought that the Discovery will no longer be a Land rover exclusive. -- It isn't ... if you look real hard you can find them with Honda Crossroad written where it should say Land Rover Discovery! == And the world didn't come to an end, did it? Personally I don't care whether or not BMW or anyone else takes a Land Rover product and rebadges it. Doing so is sort of a testimonial to the quality of the product. True, BMW can't produce an SUV quickly and cheaply enough to compete with everyone else's. And, since Land Rover is owned by BMW, why shouldn't BMW do with its product what it wants? The only thing it had better not do is ruin the quality or image of the product. That would be disastrous for all concerned. Cheers! John From "John C. White, III" Thu Feb 8 05:56:45 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 05:56:45 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Camel Trpohy Trivia The wires are there to deflect branches away from the windshield. Cheers! John At 08:01 08.02.96 GMT, Michel wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 57 lines)] >68 109 SW (in the works) >73 88 SW (21st century project) From u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Thu Feb 8 13:59:01 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:59:01 GMT From: u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Subject: Re: Comradeship If you were going to set up some sort of list along these lines I would volenteer to keep the land rovering public on the roads. Ben Archer Bournemouth & Haslemere Dorset Surrey Ps. If you need contact no's I have at present no number but within two weeks should have. >Doug Scott wrote of the assistance provided by LROs Eric Zipkin and Bryan >Davies [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)] >me or >the digest and then maybe someone else can volunteer to add it to the >Webpage. From Michael Kirk Thu Feb 08 08:45:49 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 08:45:49 -0500 From: Michael Kirk Subject: Re: diesel conversion Wdcockey@aol.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > David Cockey > Rochester, MI Touche!....GM would be out of business if they had not learned from their mistakes..... -- ============================================================= Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net" 92 Range Rover Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA, USA (804) 440-5383 ============================================================= From Jon Humphrey Thu Feb 8 09:28:19 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:28:19 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Used Range Rovers Sandy, my oil level or pressure light flickers too. sometimes comes on going 50 I came to the conclusion that it is the spade connector or the wire at the connector. Bad connection, loose connection. If it were the oil level or pressure it would stay on. There either is pressure or not pressure. Oil can't flicker up and down like that. Also the connector in the fuse box for the ciggareet lighter and the gear selector light is flakey. If I slap the side of the fuse box, sometimes it will come on. I'm waiting till spring to sit outside in the warm weather to tear it apart and fix it. Jon From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Thu Feb 8 09:28:44 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:28:44 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: Corrosion Warranty Update For those of you who don't remember a few months ago I was denied coverage under the LRNA 6 year Corrosion Warranty. To make a long story short... I decided to go right to the top and cut out all the CRAP. My letter to the Pres. LRNA (Mr Hughes) has paid big dividends. Yesterday I got a call from the same LR Rep. who denied my claim. He tells me that they have no official documentation showing that they ever really inspected my vehicle and that he would call the service manager at the dealer and tell him to go ahead and take care of this rusty tailgate. So there you have it. 'The squeeky wheel does get the grease'. If you are having a problem go to the top. Many thanks to those of you who provided info and encouragement ( Hank, Russ, Kevin et. al.). Thanks, Rick 90 RR (the money pit) Incidently, 'the money pit' has been running trouble free [knock on wood] except of course fot that ABS light. From Michael Kirk Thu Feb 08 09:35:20 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 09:35:20 -0500 From: Michael Kirk Subject: Tires for Range Rover?? Anyone... What is the acceptable range (size) of tires to be fit on stock wheels (alloys) for a Range Rover? I was thinking of 225/75R16 or 215/75R16 to replace my 205/80R16 stock tires. Or should I stay with the stock size? -- ============================================================= Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net" 92 Range Rover Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA, USA (804) 440-5383 ============================================================= From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Thu Feb 8 06:31:51 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 06:31:51 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Misc. - BMW Discovery ----------------------------- Begin Original Text ----------------------- John Maravilla '95 Bronze Discovery LLRR! (Long Live Land Rover!) ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- John, I said the same thing about series cars. Welcome to the past From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 8 09:35:12 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:35:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Camel Trpohy Trivia > 7)The real reason why those cables are installed. Can somebody enlighten me > on this, please. I would really like to know. Lift brush/branches up and over the windscreen BTW, you master cylinder was in one of the crates. Rgds, Dixon Kenner Canadian Forestry Service Natural Resources Canada From 08 96 Feb EST 1910 Date: 08 Feb 96 10:26:42 EST From: Subject: Re: Re: FC101 campervan conversion >>I have no personal experience, but have read that the FC101 does not share most parts with other Land Rovers. Thus parts availability in certain areas might be worse for the FC101 than, say, a 110 w/ ambulance body.<< The 101FC is predominatly a mix of Series 3 and 70's Range rover parts. The only things that are non-standard are the axles and the bodywork. You'll be able to find parts if you know what you are looking for. Ralph. From "Walter C. Swain" Thu Feb 8 07:33:40 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 07:33:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Tires for Range Rover?? On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Michael Kirk wrote: > What is the acceptable range (size) of tires to be fit on stock wheels > (alloys) for a Range Rover? > I was thinking of 225/75R16 or 215/75R16 to replace my 205/80R16 stock > tires. Michael, This has become an every two week discussion. Bottom Line: With a good suspension (i.e., not sagging) you should be able to get by with the larger sizes. If your springs and bushings are tired, fix them and then get the larger tires. I have 225's and managed to get crossaxled recently with no resulting tire-body contact. Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From 08 96 Feb EST 1911 Date: 08 Feb 96 11:15:43 EST From: Subject: FC101 campervan conversion I am currently converting a 101GS into an expedition camper (a job that should not be taken on lightly), but I obviously think it is the best vehicle for the job. My emphasis is for a serious off-road vehicle that we can sleep in, rather than have the comforts usually expected of a camper, but the Ambulance type is larger. I think for two people it would be ideal. An ambulance seemed too big for me, so I haven't looked at them, but I wasn't that happy with the design of the hardtop on the Radio type. The 101 does have limited legroom in front, but if you are willing to work on it you can get both another 6'' of legroom and fit comfortable seats (I'd recommend it!) additionally a higher steering wheel (easy to find, the column is the same size as the Series 3) will give you more space up front (I'm 6'6"). The steering is vague, which can be sorted, but not easily and it does consume fuel like nothing else, but in exchange you get one of the toughest off-roaders ever. I'd go for it, it's a wonderful vehicle to own and use. If you want to know anything else, just ask. Ralph. From Sanna@aol.com Thu Feb 8 11:55:19 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:55:19 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Used Range Rovers >>Sandy, my oil level or pressure light flickers too. I just had my '89 at the dealer for the gas tank recall and asked him to check into the same flickering oil warning lamp problem. Although I expected a "had to replace the oil pump and main bearings" reply, they just replaced the sensor and the problem was gone. It must be a fairly common problem, judging from their attitude. - Tony From William Owen Thu Feb 08 10:57:35 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 10:57:35 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Re: Range Rover circa '89-90 -Reply Thanks for the advice. I have looked at some 87-88's and would take one at the right price. One 87 I liked was only $10,500 with 45,000 miles, but sold by 9:00 AM the day the ad ran. My biggest concern on pre 89s is the lack of power, but I have also heard the AC is not as good and I get hot easy (no comments from series crowd please). I didn't know the 87 took regular. This would be a great advantage. Why is the 88 different in this regard? Thanks again, William From LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Thu Feb 8 10:48 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 10:48 CST From: LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Subject: D90 Questions Couple of questions about my '95 D90 to other owners. What exactly does the differential lock do? I thought it would transfer power to all four wheels, but after getting high centered on a snow drift, I know this is not true. Does it only transfer power to one wheel on each axle? And which wheel does it pick, the one with the least amount of traction? How do the ARB lockers work? Do they "lock-up" all four"? What do the lockers cost? (btw - I almost fell for the Auto Re-Breather, so be kind in your response). Surrey or Bimini Top? We have a rear seat installed, does anybody have either of these top options? Do either protect you from the elements that tend to come over the driver and pax doors? Any sources on where to buy either top? Thanks in advance for your responses. David LeCompte "Rover enthusiast for years, but now in training" '95 D90 #2078 Iowa From Michael Kirk Thu Feb 08 12:10:23 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 1996 12:10:23 -0500 From: Michael Kirk Subject: Re: Tires for Range Rover?? Walt, Thanks for the info. Sorry for the ignorance....I knew they would fit....just wanted to hear the real life experiences from a seasoned veteran like yourself. Mahalo Michael -- ============================================================= Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net" 92 Range Rover Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA, USA (804) 440-5383 ============================================================= From John Brabyn Thu Feb 8 09:48:19 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:48:19 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Used Range Rovers Sandy -- it sounds like a good deal to me, speaking as an owner of that exact model with 106,000 miles on the clock. Re the warning lights, their uses are, in order: 1. To provide illumination for the dash 2. To warn you that the corresponding sensor (in this case the oil pressure sensor) has failed 3. To warn you that there is a problem (extremely infrequent). In the current case, the oil light being on continuously is supposed to signify low oil pressure. In fact, it is most likely the sensor (a $10 part located om the oil filter mount) or possibly the little black box under the dash that controls the light (it flashes when oil LEVEL is low -- at least in theory). The final possibility is actual loss of oil pressure, but you'd probably know about it by now from the engine overheating and/or seizing up. Hope this is some help! Cheers John John Brabyn 89RR On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Alexander P. Grice wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] > | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | > *-----------------------------------------------------* From "barnett childress" Thu Feb 8 12:49:26 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 96 12:49:26 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:D90 Questions To Lecompte, > How does the diff lock work? The center diff lock gives you equal traction with out slippage between the front and rear axles. That's why you can only lock up under slippery conditions or off-road. You have open diff's in those front and rear axles. Power goes to all four wheels as long as they are in contact with the ground. If one wheel on an axle is spinning or in the air all available power goes to that wheel, and the other wheel on the same axle sits there. If you get high centered or cross axled your stuck. > How do ARB lockers work? ARB lockers lock both half axles in the axle housing together by a compressor and an air line like a "spool" so you get equal power to both wheels on the same axle no matter what. ARB's are expensive and only really needed if you plan on doing some extreme off-roading. Most people live happily without them. A winch is the first serious piece of off road gear you should consider. > What top surrey or bimimi? If you have a back seat and want to keep the rear passengers partially out of the elements than the surrey is the way to go for a temporary top in my opinion. Neither top completely keeps out the elements. You will find out that NO soft top completely keeps out the elements in a Defender! Hope this helps, Barnett Childress 95 D90 From John Brabyn Thu Feb 8 09:59:31 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 09:59:31 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Range Rover circa '89-90 -Reply William -- they are all great vehicles, so get whichever one you like or whatever you get the best deal on. There are pros and cons about all the items in the previous postings, such as the new transfer case and the 50 mph lockup. ABS did not appear til 1990. There is no evidence I know of about the transfer case durability -- it's the usual dogma in the four wheeling world to assume gear driven is good and chain driven is bad -- an extension of the argument that older is better. I like the quietness of the new one and the viscous diff lock means you don't have to worry about when to lock up and when to unlock in case of drive train damage due to binding on grippy surfaces (which include rocks as well as pavement). The 30 mph lockup of the transmission may be "better" but gives poorer acceleration from 30 to 50 in top gear. Good luck with your purchasing Cheers John Brabyn On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, William Owen wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > Why is the 88 different in this regard? > Thanks again, > William From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Feb 08 13:20:19 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 13:20:19 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc Greetings Land-Rover-ites. I am curremtly on hold with U-Haul waiting to hear some ridiculous price for some ridiculous trailer that they might be willing to rent me, pending whether or not (according to their technical department) a vehicle known as a Land-Rover 88 acually exists and is capable of towing a small trailer. My intention is to haul some parts (i.e., SWB rear body) from NH to my home in Washington DC. Is there anybody in MD, DC, VA that has a SMALL trailer they'd be willing to lend to a Rover owner in need? Or somebody in Boston, MA, or NH that wants to get rid of one cheep? U-heave is suggesting that I use their 6x12 trailer for 190 bucks... Please help. David "No, its not a Range Rover, Ma'am" Bobeck Washington DC 202 488-6588 w 202 337-1232 h dbobeck@ushmm.org From Lester Gilbert Thu Feb 8 18:30:01 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:30:01 +0000 (GMT) From: Lester Gilbert Subject: FC101 campervan conversion Ian, thanks for the reply. > > but what would I then be letting myself in for? > 14MPG; less that salubrious front seats The front seats, I guess, can be fixed one way or another... But 14 mpg? Good grief! Lets see, a little wander up to and meander about the Italian Alps would be, say, 3000 miles; at about 3.00 (expensive in La Belle France) pounds per gallon that's about 650 pounds on fuel... Does anyone know if this thirst can be, er, ...quenched? ...controlled? ...improved? And if so, roughly how and at what cost? Lester ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Lester Gilbert +44 1227 767700 x287 Dept Maths & IT l.gilbert@cant.ac.uk Canterbury Christ Church College, Kent CT1 1QU From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 8 13:33:32 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 13:33:32 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Bobeck, David R. wrote: > My intention is to haul some parts (i.e., SWB rear body) from NH to my > home in Washington DC. Is there anybody in MD, DC, VA that has a SMALL > trailer they'd be Wimp... Be the true LR owner! :-) 1. Remove hard top. 2. Dress very warmly. The small mammals under your jacket, pants etc. are optional extras to keep you warm (you seem to have quite a surplus supply. Don't use those that you have been wiping up grease & oil with) 3. Drive to NH. 4. Fill box with your rear parts. 5. Turn new spare box upside down and strap onto your current rear box. 6. Drive home. Rgds, Dixon Kenner Canadian Forestry Service Natural Resources Canada From David Rosenbaum Thu Feb 8 11:17:51 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:17:51 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: Scouting carbs On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Alexander P. Grice wrote: >> David Rosenbaum wrote about his Scout: >> Its a tiny 'early' Holley. Only adj. look like choke.... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > was over $200. Unfortunately, it is out of production. (snip....) Dear Sandy, Thanks for the info. now I can think of the little Scout as a rolling (when it runs) "spares holder" for a series LR! From "Andrew A. Dallas" Thu Feb 8 14:19:07 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 14:19:07 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Re: FC101 campervan conversion I'd love to get a consistant 14mpg in my D90. I'm averaging 12.5 mpg in highway driving. I think that actually dropped abit after the 15,000 mile service. Admittedly I do like to get where I'm going quickly. My average highway speed isprobably around 70 MPH. -AD 1995 D90 ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Feb 08 14:37:17 1996 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 96 14:37:17 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) Be the true LR owner! :-) For the Land-Rover-ese illiterate, translates to the english word "masochist" 1. Remove hard top. 2. Dress very warmly. The small mammals under your jacket, pants etc. are optional extras to keep you warm (you seem to have quite a surplus supply. Don't use those that you have been wiping up grease & oil with) 3. Drive to NH. 4. Fill box with your rear parts. 5. Turn new spare box upside down and strap onto your current rear box. 6. Drive home. Step 7- Shovel or spray the 2 foot layer ofice/snow/slush/salt/mud/gear oil mixture from inside Land-Rover, wipe up bird offings, carefully thaw small appendages and other body parts so that they don't break off... This has to be some kind of joke. I can see the "headlines" in the OVLR newsletter: DAVE BOBECK CLINCHES LUGNUT AWARD!!! ... I don't think so. Maybe if I wasn't going to be driving around in Boston all weekend before going to NH. I'd have to carry all those pieces of my grill inside with me every night...yeah right. Not a bad idea for a shorter trip perhaps... Iwas thinking maybe just swapping the new for old right there in Mark's backyard, but I sort of want to keep the old one to... you guessed it, make a trailer!! Besides I don't think mark's SO would be to happy about having ANOTHER 1/2 Land-Rover in her yard. Mark, any ideas? From ericz@cloud9.net Thu Feb 8 11:40:16 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 11:40:16 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas) wrote: >Also, I'm looking to replace 7.50 tires with new ones...any reason to go >slightly wider in a tire ment to be used mostly on highway-wet and snowy? >Any recommendations? I would recommend staying with the 7.50 tires and avoiding anything much wider. I've had better results with the narrower 7.50s on wet and snowy roads as opposed to the 255 Mud Terrains that were on the vehicle before. I think you'd probably get less rolling resistance with the narrower tires as well. YMMV, Eric From Tebbin Salvesen Thu Feb 8 12:44:16 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:44:16 -0700 (MST) From: Tebbin Salvesen Subject: Re: FC101 campervan conversion On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Lester Gilbert wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] > Dept Maths & IT l.gilbert@cant.ac.uk > Canterbury Christ Church College, Kent CT1 1QU just buy a YUGO they get good gas mileage------ From "H. J. Hewson" Thu Feb 8 15:47:42 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:47:42 -0500 From: "H. J. Hewson" Subject: Range Rover Query Circa '89-90 Sounds like Roger Hall got a pretty good deal at $14.5k for a low-mileage, '89 RR, especially in HI. Are you sure it hasn't been rolled? In the D.C. area I haven't seen one advertised for less than $16k. I've had no real problems with my '89 at about 90k miles on it. Bought it in '92 for $20.5k. A few leaks here and there, but hey, it IS a Land Rover, and it's been "rode hard and put away wet". Power steering pump pulleys and water pumps tend to be a problem for this year group, as well as goofy electrical switches and such, but by far superior to anything else in this price range, even considering the cost of parts. By the way, Roger, to dress up your RR interior for that real "safari" look, just toss a shovel in the back to dig yourself out of that sticky Oahu red clay. That mud will make any vehicle look as if it just spent a year in the Calahari. And may you never be cursed to spend a year in Our Nation's Capitol, Mister "Second Reef Sunset". How's Lani's look? Enjoy that RR, Harry From lopezba@atnet.at Thu Feb 8 22:20:13 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:20:13 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Foggy windows Gerry Mugele wrote: >PurnellJE@aol.com asked: >>Anyone have luck with Rainex on the inside?? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >to require relatively frequent applications. And on the question of foggy >windows in general...as far as I know it's just a Land-Rover thing. Weeell - in the good old days when I was young and adventurous I drove a Porsche 356 SC. Nothing you will ever experience in a Land Rover will be comparable to the fogging of those windows. I was in a near-accident in Italy once, and the windows fogged over totally just from the perspiration caused by fear... I used to spend about half my money on some kind of cloth that you wipe the inside of the window with to keep the window clear, and that worked well (the other half of my money went for repairs, and my wife paid for the gasoline). Then one of my colleagues, a chemist, enlightened me that detergent had exactly the same effect on the windows, but would make less of a dent in my pocketbook. Apart from the inconvenience of carrying a bottle of liquid dish soap and a common rage, and applying a thin film of soap to the windows every few days in the foggy season it worked perfectly. Hope it still works - this was about 25 years ago, and soap might be New and Improved now! Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W Vienna, Austria From Nnn100@aol.com Thu Feb 8 17:06:52 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:06:52 -0500 From: Nnn100@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest unsubscribe lro-digest From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 8 17:10:05 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:10:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Re[2]: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Bobeck, David R. wrote: > For the Land-Rover-ese illiterate, translates to the english word "masochist" Yeah... Your point? :-) > Step 7- Shovel or spray the 2 foot layer ofice/snow/slush/salt/mud/gear oil > mixture from inside Land-Rover, wipe up bird offings, carefully thaw > small appendages and other body parts so that they don't break off... Now, now... it wouldn't be that bad... > This has to be some kind of joke. I can see the "headlines" in the OVLR > newsletter: DAVE BOBECK CLINCHES LUGNUT AWARD!!! ... I don't think so. Maybe > I wasn't going to be driving around in Boston all weekend before going to NH. Ahhh, Boston is the problem... The temp is hovering over 0c/32f. It wouldn't be that bad, you'd save US$190 for the trailer (add to this the fact you don't have a rear hitch yet...) Besides, this wouldn't clinch the LugNut Award. You gotta be really good to get that. There is lots of competition for our esteemed award. This would just begin to scratch the surface, considering it isn't that much or a hairbrained idea. It does get you the parts and you wouldn't be much colder than Dale, or some of the other Canadians driving around in -35c weather with a soft-top > Not a bad idea for a shorter trip perhaps... Straight up and back, it would be worthwhile. > Iwas thinking maybe just swapping the new for old right there in Mark's > backyard, but I sort of want to keep the old one to... you guessed it, > make a trailer!! May just be able to swap if it isn't too cold. Take a couple hours at most... Rgds, Dixon Kenner Canadian Forestry Service Natural Resources Canada From Tebbin Salvesen Thu Feb 8 15:08:28 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 15:08:28 -0700 (MST) From: Tebbin Salvesen Subject: Re: Fwd: Hazards of Radar (no LR content) does anyone out there know of a ROVER mailing list or news group where all ROVER owners can commiserate and share their info? (even owners of the ROVER cars such as the 3500) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 96 Feb EST 1917 Date: 8 Feb 96 17:26:29 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Re[2]: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) Re: Ravening masochism: Well, you could always cut the rivets holding the sides and bottom together. You'd then have a relatively flat panel and two sides that would fit INSIDE your Rover. Just get 'em home, rivet the ugly little beggars back together, and off you go. It CAN be done. aj"Not on MY watch, though"r From Dave White Thu Feb 8 22:32:41 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:32:41 +0000 From: Dave White Subject: Re: Plush vs. Heritage (series) >From: debrown@srp.gov >Date: 06 Feb 96 13:14:06 MST >Subject: Plush vs. Heritage (series) >Benefits of the "plush": Wheel travel, power. Is there any way to make a >heritage have the same wheel travel of a RR or Defender? (If so, I'd >*love* to hear of it, to use on my 88) Power can become a moot point >with the "iron duke" or similar "upgrade" (using the term loosely ;-) ) Ok, hows about this... Take one range rover rolling chassis. (Rolled RRs make good doner vehicles) Remove approx 12" from the centre of the chassis. Weld the two halves back together again. Cut off the back end of the chassis and weld on a SII/III rear cross member. Place into position one V8 engine with 4-speed ZF Range Rover Gearbox (approx 9" to the rear of the original mounting point) Shorten rear propshaft to suit and lengthen front propshaft Replace Range Rover rear coil springs with Discovery items. Position SII/III bodywork on top of the finished chassis. Replace steering column with Defender steering column. Link above to original RR power steering unit. Fabricate body and steering mounts to suit. Manufacture/Modify new handbrake (from Defender) Have a chat with your insurance broker - Whisky makes a good ice breaker :-) There you have your recipe for the ultimate Land Rover - best of both worlds. A coil sprung, V8 automatic 88" SII or SIII. With SIII diffs it cruises on the motorway (interstate) at 70mph 2700 rpm. Off road - superb. I finished mine in October last year and still have a silly grin on my face whenever I drive it. The only problem is I start feeling very insecure when people start talking about splitting the list :-) ---------------------------------------------------- Dave White. '72 SWB SIII V8 Auto R/R Chassis and running gear. '89 Range Rover Yorkshire Rover Owners Club UK From Dave White Thu Feb 8 22:32:52 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:32:52 +0000 From: Dave White Subject: Re: Billing >>TeriAnn "saving those quid for parts and ale, not a hotel room" >Hope to see you there - it should be easy, I think they do not expect more >than 30,000 a day... >Peter Hirsch >SI 107in S/W >Vienna, Austria I expect I will be working on the Billing reception again this year. If anybody from the list is going and wants to meet with other members let me know. I can try to put people in contact or pass on messages - everyone who arrives to camp has to stop at reception anyway... ---------------------------------------------------- Dave White. '72 SWB SIII V8 Auto R/R Chassis and running gear. '89 Range Rover Yorkshire Rover Owners Club UK From Wdcockey@aol.com Thu Feb 8 20:25:14 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 20:25:14 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Series: "Truth in Advertising" >From a 1962 Rover of North America brochure about Land Rovers: "Its aluminum alloy body will neither rust not corrode and its other metal parts are rust proofed." What about the bulkhead, in particular the door hinge pillars, and the grille panel? Seems like I've seen more than a few rusted. Or maybe "rust proofed" meant something different in 1962. Actually, I enjoy reading old brochures and literature. This one has line drawings of 9 different LRs on the cover, and a very nice photo of a North American SII 88" SW, "just like" ours. David Cockey 1960 SII 88" SW 1960 SII 88" PU From clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Thu Feb 8 17:48:20 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:48:20 +0000 From: clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Subject: Test message As the mail I've sent to the new server is all being returned this is a test to see if it works this time. Carol From Wdcockey@aol.com Thu Feb 8 20:34:03 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 20:34:03 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) In a message dated 96-02-08 17:49:31 EST, you write: >Well, you could always cut the rivets holding the sides and bottom together. >You'd then have a relatively flat panel and two sides that would fit INSIDE >your Rover. I bought a rear quarter from Scott Harper in Warren Ohio a couple of years ago. He figured it would be a simple matter to remove (So did I). Over an hour later his mechanic had another opinion. Lots of welds and rusted bolts. Some not obvious. Is there a secret. Two possible techniques for dealing with U-Haul. 1) Rent locally and haul it there empty. Find a small local dealer (not one of the U-Haul centers) and deal with him directly without calling the 800 number for a reservation. 2)If you have to use the 800 number tell them you have a "jeep" (use the generic form) with a metal top. The dealer in NH will almost certainly not care about the difference. David Cockey From John Brabyn Thu Feb 8 17:55:41 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 17:55:41 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Plush vs. Heritage (series) This sounds awfully like a Defender 90 to me!! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR On Thu, 8 Feb 1996, Dave White wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 45 lines)] > '89 Range Rover > Yorkshire Rover Owners Club UK From Nigel Kendal-Ward Fri Feb 09 02:25:38 1996 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 02:25:38 +0000 From: Nigel Kendal-Ward Subject: Re: Test message Carol Clapp wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > to see if it works this time. > Carol Hi Carol.... Seems to work ok.... Regards Nigel. From Gene Sparks Thu Feb 8 18:49:55 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 18:49:55 -0800 From: Gene Sparks Subject: Condensation in Disco Update During the heavy rains we're having here in the NW the reason for the = heavy condensation I was experiencing in my Disco became evident. It was = a faulty windscreen seal. The heavy rain left the corner of my headliner = wet and upon further investigation I found a small puddle at the base of = the drivers side kick panel. Having it looked at tomorrow will report = if anything of interest is found. Inquiring minds want to know. Gene 96 Discovery 5 Speed w/character dent Aberdeen WA "Life sucks and then you marry someone that doesn't know how" From PurnellJE@aol.com Thu Feb 8 22:33:32 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:33:32 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Foggy windows In a message dated 96-02-08 16:41:22 EST, you write: >Gerry Mugele wrote: >>PurnellJE@aol.com asked: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Porsche 356 SC. Nothing you will ever experience in a Land Rover will be >comparable to the fogging of those windows. >. Just to be sure, my therapist has helped me accept as an issue I have no control over, my Defender 90, in rainy weather, will always have fogged up windows. I accept the things I cannot change... I really do. John. Foggy90...no longer in denial. From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Feb 8 23:15:12 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 23:15:12 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Rovers for sale Is the Rover 'net working. I've posted several messages which didn't appear, nor did they get bounced. In my search for a Range rover, I've uncovered two 5-door 109's for sale that might be of interest to folks out there. The first is a 1962 LHD, rust-free 109 that will be bronze green by next week. The other is a RHD ex-ambulance with 58,000 original miles; OD, 6 cyl. engine, "spectacular" driver...it even has it siren! Both are priced at $8,750. Call Gabor Antalics in the Philly area at 215-925-1804. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Feb 8 23:42:43 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 23:42:43 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) Hey Dave; if you find out the secret to removing the rear quarters let me know. I have one here and afraid I'll ruin it if I try..Anybody else got a clue ?? just how difficult a job is it ?? do you just drill out the spot welds or use a spot weld cutter which fits in a drill and allows you to drill around the spot weld? Rgds, Steve From philr@ozemail.com.au (Phil Rofe) Fri Feb 9 14:58:34 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:58:34 +0930 From: philr@ozemail.com.au (Phil Rofe) Subject: Cold start warning switch on seriesIII Dear all A rather simple question which I am sure can be answered by many of the heritage owners.... One of the warning lights which sits on the speedo face is labelled 'cold start' and it is amber in colour. So far so good. The sender unit attaches to the choke cable under the bonnett but unfortunately even tho I've fitted a new one the light refuses to show....any ideas o wise ones... Phil Rofe Defender 110 Series III 88 From stretch@vol.net Fri Feb 9 13:05:30 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 13:05:30 PST From: stretch@vol.net Subject: Re: FC101 campervan conversion Admittedly, my 95 D90 is only 2K miles old, so not much experience here, but I get 14.5 mpg around San Jose freeways (60-ishmph); I measured 16.5mpg when I drove to Mono Lake, which is 9,000ft altitude. I found this odd...or is it? Anyone have similar/different experience? regards ---------------Original Message--------------- To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc I'd love to get a consistant 14mpg in my D90. I'm averaging 12.5 mpg in highway driving. I think that actually dropped abit after the 15,000 mile service. Admittedly I do like to get where I'm going quickly. My average highway speed isprobably around 70 MPH. -AD 1995 D90 ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software, Inc. 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135, USA (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------------- Name: jcollins E-mail: stretch@vol.net Temp assgn: Hong Kong From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Thu Feb 8 22:16:07 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:16:07 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: FC101 campervan conversion Lester asks... Ian replies.... >> in the UK, originally manufactured in '72 (???) for about 5000 pounds >> sterling, but what would I then be letting myself in for? - >14MPG; less that saluibrious front seats; panoramic views; practically unstoppable >driving; oodles of space in the rear.... - And lots of Rover-envy from the rest of us!! Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue #:-}> From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Thu Feb 8 22:31:37 1996 Date: Thu, 8 Feb 1996 22:31:37 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Cold start warning switch on seriesIII Phil asks... >One of the warning lights which sits on the speedo face is labelled 'cold >start' and it is amber in colour. So far so good. The sender unit >attaches to the choke cable under the bonnett but unfortunately even tho >I've fitted a new one the light refuses to show....any ideas o wise ones... - The unit on the choke cable is only part of the circuit. On top of the cylinder head (at the front of the engine) there is a thermo-sensor which closes (electrically) when the engine comes up to temperature. The unit on the choke cable closes (electrically) when the choke is pulled out. When you have both of these conditions, the "Cold Start" light comes on - to remind you to push the choke back in. That's all it does - really. To test it, pull the wire off the sensor in the head and connect it electrically to ground with a suitable piece of wire. Pull out the choke, turn on the keyFrom Alan Richer 9 96 Feb EST 1907 Date: 9 Feb 96 7:05:14 EST From: Alan Richer Subject: Re: Cold start warning switch on seriesIII The circuit on that bulb is fairly simple: +12 ---- Bulb----Switch on the cold-start cable----- thermostatic switch on the front of the engine - ground It's probably the thermostatic switch on the engine, if it never lights at all, even when warm. The bulb is a warning light to remind you to push in the damn choke when you're bopping down the highway with a happily warmed-up engine. It comes on when 2 conditions are met: 1) The engine is at operating temperature; and: 2) the cold-start handle is pulled out far enough to actuate the switch. Get your engine warm, then pull out the choke. If the light does not come on, you need to check continuity through the thermostatic switch to ground. It's easy to find - it's the little widget in the head next to the thermostat housing, held in place with a triangular pattern of small bolts and with a slide fastener connector sticking up out of the center of it. If the engine's warm it should read ) ohms or thereabouts from the center contact to the block. If not, it's hosed. Just run through the other bits with the meter, too... You did try changing the bulb, right? Alan From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Fri Feb 9 13:33:43 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 13:33:43 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Differential Questions David LeCompte asked: >What exactly does the differential lock do? This question is being asked so frequently on this list, and answered assiduously by the experts. In case it is of use, I have put some words on the subject on my web site. The page can be accessed direct at: " http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept/diff.html " It is written in plain English for ease of understanding, but if anyone feels that the article is defficient or incorrect, please feel free to mail me to say so. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas) Fri Feb 9 09:33:44 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:33:44 -0400 From: ay@georgeson.com (Armando Yslas) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Does anyone have any experience with Synthetic oil in SIII rovers? Are they just too leaky to put that expensive stuff through? I've heard that synthetic oil can actually swell seals so that might work better and I've heard that the synthetic stuff can just drain out of an already weak seal? I would appreciate any comments. ay@georgeson.com AY From steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com Fri Feb 09 10:24:20 1996 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 10:24:20 EST From: steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com Subject: Birmabrite brotherhood ---- Mail Item Text Follows From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Fri Feb 09 10:41:42 1996 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 10:41:42 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Series: Help me get my steering relay ou Hi all, If you've been following my progress an relpacing my frame, you might have guessed this would be coming. I need to get the steering realy out at some point. I tried the jack trick from Porter's book, and succeeded only in lifting the whole truck... I'm considering leaving it for last, when I have the old frame free and can flip it over and pound the realy out with a big sledge hammer - but whats the risk of damage to the unit? Should I cut the frame with a torch? Again, whats the damage risk to the relay? Thanks Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From Fred Ellsworth Fri Feb 9 11:41:53 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:41:53 -0500 From: Fred Ellsworth Subject: Black D90 in Boston Is the owner of the black D90 with a winch package, lic# 801-YDB, that was picking someone up from BBN in Cambridge last night on the list? I was waiting for the company shuttle and drooooling. I'd love to get a closer look in the daylight... Fred '71 IIA 88" Boston, MA From "Tom Rowe" Fri Feb 9 11:31:53 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 11:31:53 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Series: Help me get my steering relay ou tim harincar asks: Snip > hammer - but whats the risk of damage to the unit? Should I cut the frame > with a torch? Again, whats the damage risk to the relay? If it were me, I'd go the torch route. Why drive yourself crazy if you're trashing the frame anyway. That said, you must be very careful. Depends on your skill with a torch. I've cut wheel studs out of a hub without damage, but I've a lot of experience. The other thing to remember is that the relay is oil filled (theoretically) and therefore prone to pressure build up when heated. The way I'd do it is to cut the frame sides in front and behind the relay to try to relieve some of the grip it has on the relay. If it isn't enough, do a little more, just be careful that the relay doesn't get too hot. If you can still touch it, you should be fine. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research Madison,WI, USA 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Feb 9 12:42:55 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 12:42:55 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: BMW Badged Land Rover >PLEASE don't say they should have a home in >the Land Rover list All BMW owners are not the champagne sipping yuppies attending polo matches in black tie that BMW had in their 80's magazine ads. Almost everyone in the BMW club hated those ads. Yesterday I went to look at a used SIIa, when I decided to pass on it because it was too nice (expensive), I sent info on it to another BMW/Land Rover owner who is looking for a 109 or 88 to buy as his daily driver. >I must agree with Teri Ann. It is a terrible thought that the Discovery >will no longer be a Land Rover exclusive. This months CAR (from England) magazine said there was going to be two versions of the (unibody) CB 40. A Land Rover and a "more plush" BMW. The BMW club does not want the company to build a SUV, it is the dealers. I was at a preview party for the new BMW Z3 roadster at a local dealer on the SF peninsula. The dealer said that they are begging BMW to come out with a 4x4. BMW sold a lot of small 3 series cars in the late 80's and early 90's to people my age that just got out of college. Now that these people are in their late 20's and early 30's many are getting married and having kids (like my sister). The car to buy for a young family today is a Ford Explorer, Jeep Grand Cherokee, or a Disco (none of these start with a B and end with a W so the dealers are putting pressure on BMWNA). Kevin Kelly From "Soren Vels Christensen" Fri Feb 9 19:09:35 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:09:35 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: FC101 campervan conversion (YOGO etc etc) In message Thu, 8 Feb 1996 12:44:16 -0700 (MST), Tebbin Salvesen writes: > just buy a YUGO they get good gas mileage------ And it will improve with time. The body and the monocoque will rust away fast making the car(???) lighter as you go. And while we're looking to the east. I watched the Euro truck trials last night. I wish i could afford a used Tatra. 8x8 with in-/defalteable tyres on the fly. Very impressive. Most of these trucks (lorries) were E-european. Not surprising since all the east block industry was a part of the total defence. Thus many civil vehicles were not far from mil spec. Kinda like Landy. Some of these trucks also appeared on a laterprogramme. Two guys went to India via the old silk route through Pakistan. They were on motor bikes. They were acompanied by a Dansih speaking Kiwi in an NZ reg. Ninety with a roof rack tent. His name is Greg. Wonder who he is. The bikers parted with them in Pakistan and went to India. In India they saw a few of these balalaika trucks. Some were armoured HQ/recce/radio vehicles converted to campers. Should keep the mosquitos away. The best is that this programme was not made by a pro camera team. National TV has a project called "Open-TV" which accepts contributions. This show was made with a handy-cam by the two guys. They also positioned the cam and made drive-by shots. Very good. The picture and sound quality was not the best though, but there was more adventure oozing from the tube than most of the mega budget productions i have seen. Bla bla bla sv/aurens From Greg Shyba <72647.2741@compuserve.com> 09 96 Feb EST 1913 Date: 09 Feb 96 13:31:35 EST From: Greg Shyba <72647.2741@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Code 17 on 1990 RR -From: Greg Shyba, 72647,2741 TO: LRO, INTERNET:LRO-DIGEST@LAND-ROVER.TEAM.NET DATE: 2/8/96 11:48 AM RE: Copy of: Code 17 on 1990 RR I am the original owner of this terrific vehicle which I use up here in Canada on my many fishing excursions - I am th volunteer president of Trout Unlimited Canada. Has anyone out there any advice for this code 17 problem? Should I just trundle down to my local dealer and have it replaced? If I could identfy the part maybe it just needs cleaning or an adjustment? Anyone looking for tremendous fishing opportunites and the challenging roads 'to get there' should give me an e-mail. Perhaps there is an opportunity to get a special event going up here. Greg Shyba Calgary, Alberta From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Fri Feb 9 14:36:51 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 96 14:36:51 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: misc ramblings.... Dear list: 1. March LRW has several interesting articles: a) Rover v8 in a SIIa conversion b) Big-block Chevy (560 HP!) in a 110 c) RR with a small screw supercharger (like Sprintex, but called ??Hmm, I forget) Got my core 215 ready for the 3.4" stroke crank, Chevy 305 pistons. Looking for a good machine shop. Will end up with a 298 CID (about 4.9l), hoping to get 230HP, 280ft-lbs. Also looking into an Eaton supercharger. 2. BMW Disco? I don't _want_ them to wave at me now!! If you thought that it was a yuppie-mobile, wait until they get a bimmer badge! It'll be the standard-issue station-wagon for the 320i crowd. Jan From DawnLady@aol.com Fri Feb 9 14:36:25 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 14:36:25 -0500 From: DawnLady@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Unsubscribe lro-digest From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Fri Feb 09 14:48:56 1996 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 14:48:56 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: Plush vs "oldmobiles" and Dormobiles >Plush vs "oldmobiles": > Just read an article on a modification on a D110. The guy used the air [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >a maximum of 13 cm ( 5.12" for those of the stone age ;-) ) between low and >high position. How we all envy his 5.12" extension ! Bill Adams 3Dmentia computer animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington, MD 20895 301-949-9475 '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel ...all there From mgrove@polarnet.com (Melvin Grove) Fri Feb 9 16:21:50 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:21:50 +0400 From: mgrove@polarnet.com (Melvin Grove) Subject: Re: Camel Trpohy Trivia >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >I tried, in vain to find a reason to justify the presence of these, and have >come up with a few possibilities. What do you think? The cables are there to prevent tree limbs from smashing the windshield. Pretty nifty Idea I think. Tread Lightly! On a PETA person. Mel From david@stat.com (David Dodell) Fri Feb 09 14:28:27 1996 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 96 14:28:27 MST From: david@stat.com (David Dodell) Subject: Why different tires pressures Discovery I have a Disco '96 and noticed that the tire pressure recommended for front is 26 lbs and 35 lbs on the rear. I never could understand why there would be different pressures between the front and rear of the vehicle. Also I would think that the engine in front, you would want to have more pressure. Any comments? david --- Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-6135 WWW: http://www.stat.com/~david From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Fri Feb 9 22:21:12 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:21:12 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Re: Series: Help me get my steering relay ou Should I cut the frame >with a torch? Again, whats the damage risk to the relay? Tim Don't cut the frame. Use whatever force is necessary to remove the relay without consideration of damage to the unit. Then replace the relay with a new one. If it is that badly rusted in, it's probably also shot. A new relay will improve your steering no end, and it's worth the few pounds it will cost. Ditto a new steering box/column. Before I replaced these items, I really thought that Land Rovers naturally wandered all over the road. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From ericz@cloud9.net Fri Feb 9 15:06:33 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:06:33 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: GPS Not entirely LR related, but here goes... I'm thinking about buying a GPS to use in my Rover among other things. Does anyone have any experience or locations I can look for information. I'd be using it in the Rover for both general navigation and to identify locations to look at or photograph later from the air.... I definitely don't want to spend a lot of money! Thanks, Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Fri Feb 9 15:06:44 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 15:06:44 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Series: Help me get my steering relay ou On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, "Tom Rowe" wrote: > tim harincar asks: >Snip [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >If it were me, I'd go the torch route. Why drive yourself crazy if >you're trashing the frame anyway. How about a combo route? Use the torch to cut away all the big stuff, then a grinder to get in close, cut a line down the length of the relay. This would probably allow you to 'peel' the remnants of the frame away from the relay. Only a suggestion based on the layout of the unit, I've never tried it .... I've always gone the lazy route and bought a new relay. Regards, Eric From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Fri Feb 9 16:34:28 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 16:34:28 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Re: JEEP FAKES CAMELS Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! >---------- >From: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > in Petersens? Black and white picture so you can't tell if they are > yellow. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From Wdcockey@aol.com Fri Feb 9 19:52:33 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 19:52:33 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: GPS (non LR specific) Look in boating magazines and marine catalogs for GPS info. "Practical Sailor" has had some good reviews of GPS units in the last couple of years. West Marine (1-800-538-0075) has a very good selection and several very informative pages in their annual catalog. Their prices are competitive. Get or borrow a copy just for the info. Prices start at $200, and there are a number of units in the $250 - $500 range. Check what accessories you get. The same unit is sold in different packages. The accuracy of GPS is largely independent of the particular unit, and is set by the system design and how the Defense Department operates it. There is some difference in receiver sensitivity. Choose a unit based on features NEEDED, ease of operations, display legibility, size, and sensitivity. BTW some units are limited to 99 knots and can't be used in most aircraft if that is important. We have a Magellan Meridian XL ($300) which has been very satisfactory. Most usage has been on a sailboat, but we used it sitting on the dash of a Ford Escort (with the antenna on the unit) while touring England with excellent results. I was surprised how well it tracked the satellites even in mountain valleys. This unit allows the regular antenna to be mounted on a six foot cable ($30.00) or to use an optional external antenna ($95.00). One of these options may be necessary in a LR. As with any technical item do your own research and don't necessarially believe what a saleman tells you. I heard more mis-information than information when shopping. Availability has gotten tight around the beginning of boating season the last couple of years. The usual difference between marine and outdoor sport models is usually nothing more than the color. And don't count on the marine models to cost more; the marine market is very competitive and I've seen the "brown" version more expensive. David Cockey From eec@interaccess.com (Edward Chambers) Fri Feb 09 19:20:34 1996 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 1996 19:20:34 -0600 From: eec@interaccess.com (Edward Chambers) Subject: Re: GPS >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >I definitely don't want to spend a lot of money! >Thanks, >Eric If you fly (have your pilots license), then you probably get Sporty's Pilot Shop magazine. I would look in there for a good GPS unit. All of the ones in there are more geared towards aviation use, but are portable and can run off a cigarette lighter, even in a car. Heck, you can even put a yoke mount on it and secure it to your LR steering wheel. The aviation grade ones are more expensive, (approx $500 to $1,200) but I wouldn't try using a GPS unit made for camping/hiking to try to navigate an aircraft to a reference point. It might would work, I just don't know how well. I used a friend of mine's Magellan "Skyblazer" on a fairly short flight and liked it. I think that unit costs around $700. I haven't used any other units, so I don't know how it compares with other makes, or vice versa. I hear that Garmin makes good ones, too. Just my 2 pesetas, Ed Chambers eec@interaccess.com From Wdcockey@aol.com Fri Feb 9 21:28:54 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:28:54 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Mailing List Life Cycle (Non LR, long) This has been recycled from another mailing list (which asks that its name not be made public although the topic is maritime history). It seems appropriate for this group after the one vs. two list debate and the change of host. THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE OF MAILING LISTS Every list seems to go through the same cycle: 1. Initial enthusiasm (people introduce themselves, and gush alot about how wonderful it is to find kindred souls). 2. Evangelism (people moan about how few folks are posting to the list, and brainstorm recruitment strategies). 3. Growth (more and more people join, more and more lengthy threads develop, occasional off-topic threads pop up). 4. Community (lots of threads, some more relevant than others; lots of information and advice is exchanged; experts help other experts as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with generosity and patience; everyone -- newbie and expert alike -- feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and sharing opinions). 5. Discomfort with diversity (the number of messages increases dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader; people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person 1 threatens to quit if *other* people don't limit discussion to person 1's pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3 tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more bandwidth is wasted complaining about off-topic threads than is used for the threads themselves; everyone gets annoyed). 6a. Smug complacency and stagnation (the purists flame everyone who asks an 'old' question or responds with humor to a serious post; newbies are rebuffed; traffic drops to a doze-producing level of a few minor issues; all interesting discussions happen by private email and are limited to a few participants; the purists spend lots of time self-righteously congratulating each other on keeping off-topic threads off the list). OR 6b. Maturity (a few people quit in a huff; the rest of the participants stay near stage 4, with stage 5 popping up briefly every few weeks; many people wear out their second or third 'delete' key, but the list lives contentedly ever after). Hopefully LRO is in stage 6b. Let's together avoid any moves towards 6b. David Cockey From ASFCO@aol.com Fri Feb 9 22:59:44 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 22:59:44 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Engine serial numbers (Series) What is, or is there in fact, a formula for determining the year of an engine from the serial numbers ?? Rgds, Steve From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Fri Feb 9 23:08:03 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 23:08:03 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: GM diesels Ed Chambers wrote: >would only last about 20,000 miles. My engine went through two fuel >injector pumps... Count yourself lucky. A friend (who used to drive a Rover P-5 and now drives an 89 Range Rover) went through two *engines* in as many miles. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Feb 10 00:00:20 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:00:20 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: message format Does anyone have an idea as to why my postings are coming out the way they are??(with the signature way at the bottom of the page??) I really do know how to compose a letter and where to put the signature. !! Thanks, Steve From SACME@aol.com Sat Feb 10 00:25:07 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:25:07 -0500 From: SACME@aol.com Subject: Birmabright Brotherhood Why do I get the feeling I started something (gulp!). There seems to be some interest in putting together a directory of LR/RR/Def/Disco owners, if there isn't one already. I gather that there are some in selected areas (Virginia, for example). Ok, here goes. I would be willing to do a national list, if there is sufficent interest. I guess that can be indicated by (1) letting me know how you feel about it and (2) sending me the info to go into the list. Trevor Easton suggested a format today and I think he has the basics pretty well covered. If anyone feels additional fields are required, let me know - assuming we want to get this thing off the ground at all. As background, I touch-type, work at home, use dBase5 for Windows, which should work fine for the BB list, have no financial or commercial interest in any Solihull product or related aftermarkets, or any other automotive-related interests for that matter. I feel strongly that the list should be for good-samaritan purposes and should never knowingly be sold to or given to anyone for commercial purposes, i.e., used as a junk mail resource. I will need some help from the pro's on things like Web pages and the like, but having to do something is a great motivator to learning! "Birmabright Brotherhood" has a nice ring to it, I think, but there may be some who feel that it is sexist - again, let's hear what you think about it and everything else. What am I getting myself into??? For starters, suggest put "BB:" in front of info that you want me to put in the list, for example...and also, I'm outa here for now. Bye, bye. BB: Doug Scott Monmouth, ME (just off Rt 202, halfway between Augusta & Lewiston) E-mail to SACME@aol.com 207-933-2220 (home and office, fax & voice) 2 ea. '72 Series III (one here, one away at college) Roadside assist, directions, maps heated garage, tools, air compressor, MIG welder, S-III shop manual, etc. From SACME@aol.com Sat Feb 10 00:25:00 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 00:25:00 -0500 From: SACME@aol.com Subject: Series bench seats/Safety On Wed, 7 Feb, Barnett Childress asked: >I was also wondering how the series vehicles that came with these seats >were equipped with belts. When I bought my 72 Series III SWB (it was called a "HardTop Deluxe", I think) new, in the U.S., it had the two rear benches on fold-up frames, each bench fitted with two seat belts. Extra STEEL brackets had been fitted under the wheel boxes to spread the seat belt loading. These brackets proved to be one of the only weak links on the vehicle (aside from the frame eventually rusting away), as Solihull had allowed the steel brackets to come in contact with the Birmabright skin. Galvanic corrosion ensued, and my love now wears two riveted (with roofing tar behind) Birmabright bandaids on each of her rear quarter panels. I have since removed the seats, belts, and remains of the steel reinforcements. If I were going to reinstall the belts, I would give serious consideration to the G-forces possible in a crash and spend some time in constructing adequate attachment points, but paying much more careful attention to galvanic corrosion than did Solihull in 1972. Don't let steel and Birmabright come in contact, especially where the roads are salted in winter or near the ocean. Note: the belts were just lap belts, and had no shoulder harnesses. I would definitely go to lap/shoulder combinations now - the PO of my newest S3 had installed a single inward-facing jump seat in the right rear, with a neat inertial seat/lapbelt installation. Hope this helps in your decisionmaking. Good luck. Mark Talbot: Hi! If you read this, you might want to give Barnett the benefit of your experience on the above seat/seatbelt combo on "Beryl". Thanks. Doug Scott, Monmouth, Maine U.S.A. SACME@aol.com or 207-933-2220 (voice & fax), 2 ea., '72 Series III 88's From ericz@cloud9.net Fri Feb 9 21:43:34 1996 Date: Fri, 9 Feb 1996 21:43:34 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: GPS On Fri, 09 Feb 1996, eec@interaccess.com (Edward Chambers) wrote: The aviation grade ones are >more expensive, (approx $500 to $1,200) but I wouldn't try using a GPS unit >made for camping/hiking to try to navigate an aircraft to a reference point. You're definitely right about the non-aviation GPS units probably not being up to snuff for use in an aircraft. The application I was refering to was to use a handheld (read chepo) unit to get a lat/lon and then use the GPS in the aircraft (I hope someday to replace tFrom "Matthew Loxton" Sat Feb 10 06:21:28 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 06:21:28 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Disco Honda, BMW Although my first reaction to Honda and BMW selling Disco's is one of repugnance. I now think that this could be a good idea. 1. When last did you compare the number of LR parts outlets with those of Honda and BMW? 2. For us bods who can only afford LR's when they become "quaint" there will be tons of partially used Disco's up for grabs. 3. LR will make more money, and will stay around at least as long as I do. The thing that worries me is that it somehow tarnishes the image of the Birmabrite Brotherhood. Its like disco'vering that you are after all, a Ford type. Maybe what we need is a BMW/Honda to LR conversion kit (decal changes, gear-knob, hubcaps, special leaking gaskets, etc) Cheers Matthew S-III mloxton@msn.com. ZA From "Matthew Loxton" Sat Feb 10 13:05:11 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 13:05:11 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Cold start warning Phil wrote: > ...warning lights which sits on the speedo face is labelled 'cold start' ... This sounds like the glow-plug circuit on the Diesel model. Was/is your S-III a diesel?. I seem to recall that this had to be activated by turning the ignition to a half-cock position, and the light would glow until the plugs had done their job. Cheers Matthew S-III ZA RR- still Looking From "Matthew Loxton" Sat Feb 10 06:37:27 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 06:37:27 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Them wires .. Lift brush/branches up and over the windscreen ... OH!, What a clever idea! Maybe this is cheaper than buying all those mirrors and wiper blades! Sheesh, whatever will they think of next? Matthew (27C-29C today) ZA >. From Dean Cording Sun Feb 11 00:39:35 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:39:35 +1100 (EST) From: Dean Cording Subject: Plush Series III - Best of Both Worlds This ad appeared in 'The Canberra Times' today: FOR SALE: Land-Rover Series 3 LWB '79, reco Holden, wheels, bullbar, Koni shocks, consoles, CD, sports seats and steering, carpet, sound proofed, 12 mths rego, good cond. $AUD5,500 Dean ============================================================================= Dean Cording ASPECT Computing P/L 86 Northbourne Ave Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au (Work) Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA Dean@holly.aspect.com.au (Private) ACN. 005 083 670 From Dean Cording Sun Feb 11 00:45:47 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:45:47 +1100 (EST) From: Dean Cording Subject: Re: Cold start warning On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Matthew Loxton wrote: > Phil wrote: > > ...warning lights which sits on the speedo face is labelled 'cold [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > ignition to a half-cock position, and the light would glow until the plugs had > done their job. The light works on petrol ones as well. It is activated by a switch connected to the choke cable and warns you that your choke is on. However most choke cables have been replaced by now and will have the switch missing. Dean ============================================================================= Dean Cording ASPECT Computing P/L 86 Northbourne Ave Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au (Work) Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA Dean@holly.aspect.com.au (Private) ACN. 005 083 670 From Shaun Carrigan Sat Feb 10 08:08:08 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 08:08:08 -0500 From: Shaun Carrigan Subject: Michelin XPCs Just mounted a set of the official Michelin replacements for the venerable 205 R16s on my '88 RR. I asked for the OEM tire but the tire dealer said they can't be found anywhere--they'd already looked "nationwide." This was unfortunate as I had an unused 205 R16 in the spare compartment and was hoping to get by with three new 205 R16s. They allowed me $75 for the spare. Supposedly the new XPC 205/80 R16 is a better tire. Stronger sidewall design and lower rolling resistance, I was told, so it should last longer and burn a bit less fuel. Cost was $143 each plus balance (ouch) at Universal Tire here in Nashville, Tenn. I looked at Bridgestone's nearest equivalent, but it was 0.4 inch wider and slightly taller--supposedly enough to possibly rub a control arm in a hard turn/bottom out situation. On road I'm sure it would be fine. But it was only about $18 cheaper so I went with the recommended tire. From Dean Cording Sun Feb 11 01:10:08 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 01:10:08 +1100 (EST) From: Dean Cording Subject: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising" On Thu, 8 Feb 1996 Wdcockey@aol.com wrote: > >From a 1962 Rover of North America brochure about Land Rovers: > "Its aluminum alloy body will neither rust not corrode and its other metal [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > drawings of 9 different LRs on the cover, and a very nice photo of a North > American SII 88" SW, "just like" ours. I picked up a copy of the original Series I brochure from my dealer today. Apparently they have reprinted them to emphasise the 'Land Rover Tradition' (TM) for prospective Disco owners. Anyhow, it contains a few amusing claims: "Comfortable, throughly weatherproofed and adequately ventilated, fast and economical on the road and ready to tackle the toughest cross-country going" Remember this is a Series I soft-top they are talking about. Dean ============================================================================= Dean Cording ASPECT Computing P/L 86 Northbourne Ave Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au (Work) Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA Dean@holly.aspect.com.au (Private) ACN. 005 083 670 From Shaun Carrigan Sat Feb 10 08:13:13 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 08:13:13 -0500 From: Shaun Carrigan Subject: RR wheel bearing While installing tires and new rear springs, the mechanic noticed a lack of lubrication in the right rear wheel bearing of my '88 RR. Said it would probably be toast sometime in the future. Said it was beginning to show some "pitting." Left side is OK. Gear oil level is fine. Why would lubricant stop reaching the bearing? What do I need to fix problem? Is it a DIY repair? Thanks. Shaun Carrigan 88 RR From stretch@vol.net Sat Feb 10 09:07:06 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 09:07:06 PST From: stretch@vol.net Subject: RE: GPS Hi group: Try net searches on "GPS", Magellan (brand name), Sony model #NVX-F160 (moving map GPS display), etc. If you hike/have several vehicles, etc, you may want a hand held. Be sure you can navigate without it though...it really sucks to have it die after you've marched/driven into unknown territory. Always be aware of the way out...in the best case, this will save time...... regards ---------------Original Message--------------- To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc Not entirely LR related, but here goes... I'm thinking about buying a GPS to use in my Rover among other things. Does anyone have any experience or locations I can look for information. I'd be using it in the Rover for both general navigation and to identify locations to look at or photograph later from the air.... I definitely don't want to spend a lot of money! Thanks, Eric ----------End of Original Message---------- ------------------------------------- Name: jcollins E-mail: stretch@vol.net Temp assgn: Hong Kong From "Steve Methley" Sat Feb 10 14:50:42 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:50:42 +0000 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: RR wheel bearing Shaun wrote: >While installing tires and new rear springs, the mechanic noticed a >lack of lubrication in the right rear wheel bearing of my '88 RR Hold on, how did he notice this?? To see the bearing you have to take out the half shaft, and pull the hub and brake disc, after removing the brake caliper. Did he do all this just to swap springs and tires, it certainly isn't necessary? I'd want some answers to this before I gave him any more work, or have I missed something? -- Best Regards, Steve. From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Feb 10 10:45:17 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:45:17 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Engine serial numbers (Series) >What is, or is there in fact, a formula for determining the year of an >engine from the serial numbers ?? In "Know Your Land Rover" by Robert Ivins there are tables of engine and transmission serial numbers. It looks like for SII the fourth digit of the engine, trans and axle numbers indicates model year. For SIIA and SIII the situation is similar to vehicle serial numbers with no direct indication of year in engine numbers. David Cockey From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Feb 10 10:50:18 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 10:50:18 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising" Another interesting claim about corrosion in a 1958 ad for "The New Series II Regular" (One of the reprints sold by LRO mag): "a completely rust- and corrosion- proof body of aluminium alloy"..."A rugged machine that needs no coddling, it can be left out of doors year in, year out, in any weather, in any climate." So that isn't rust or corrosion which caused the holes in my bulkhead? Must be some mice with strong teeth. David Cockey From "John C. White, III" Sat Feb 10 09:12:44 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:12:44 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: I hate U-haul (should be known as U-Hold) At 13:20 08.02.96 EST, Bobeck, David R. wrote: >David "No, its not a Range Rover, Ma'am" Bobeck >Washington DC Yet another example of what a stupid idea it was for LRNA to divorce Range Rover from its true Land Rover identity. An ad campaign would help. Holding our breaths won't. Cheers! John '95 LAND Rover Discovery, not RANGE Rover Discovery San Francisco, California From "John C. White, III" Sat Feb 10 09:13:13 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:13:13 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Message for Bill C A better idea might be to send it to majordomo@land-rover.team.net rather than the List (land-rover-owner). Cheers! John At 11:46 09.02.96 +0000, Mike Rooth wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] >Cheers >Mike Rooth From "John C. White, III" Sat Feb 10 09:13:16 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:13:16 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Birmabrite brotherhood At 10:24 09.02.96 EST, steve_reddock@uk.xyratex.com wrote: The names of the people willing to help is kept very private. It is only distributed to those on the list of helpers (as opposed to the mailing list). That way free loaders are kept out. ----------------------- Honi soit qui mal y pense. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California From "John C. White, III" Sat Feb 10 09:13:19 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 09:13:19 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: misc ramblings.... At 14:36 09.02.96 EST, Jan Ben wrote: 2. BMW Disco? I don't _want_ them to wave at me now!! If you thought that it was a yuppie-mobile, wait until they get a bimmer badge! It'll be the standard-issue station-wagon for the 320i crowd. ------------------------------------- Okay, okay, okay. If BMW takes the Discovery and rebadges it with a BMW logo, I'll put a Union Jack and a GB oval on mine. You have my native-born Bavarian word on that. Prost! John (Made in Germany) '95 Discovery (Made in England) San Francisco, California From John Antram Sat Feb 10 12:50:05 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:50:05 -0500 (EST) From: John Antram Subject: Discovery Cooling system Last week, we noticed a strong smell of anti-freeze coming from our 1995 Discovery. For a couple of days, we could not locate the leak. We refilled the tank with antifreeze and kept an eye on its level. Arriving home, there was finally leak to find; it was on the back of the engine under the air intake; our dealer fixed it under warrenty ( and did the 11,000 mile service, too ) and said it was the valley gasket leaking and that it was not properly tightened from LR. Other Discovery/defender owners may want to keep an eye on this area too. John Antram rewt@sover.net RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, Vt 05753 work: 802-767-5003 home: 802-388-0737 rover: 802-238-8164 benz: 802-238-8164 1972 Land Rover Series III 88" red, sunroofs 1995 Land Rover Discovery 5-speed, sunroofs, Roman Bronze 1987 Mercedes Benz 300 SDL Anthracite Gray From Dixon Kenner Sat Feb 10 13:11:43 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:11:43 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising" On Sat, 10 Feb 1996 Wdcockey@aol.com wrote: > "a completely rust- and corrosion- proof body of aluminium alloy"..."A rugged > machine that needs no coddling, it can be left out of doors year in, year [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > So that isn't rust or corrosion which caused the holes in my bulkhead? Must > be some mice with strong teeth. Because the body is the external bits, the bulkhead is stell and inside. Now, if we want to discuss door posts (or lack thereof) we could begin to build quite a case. Too bad rust and corrosion only covers oxidation and not galvanic action which is electrical in nature. Like to see them explain that away. But then again, this is from the marketting types, among the first against the wall when the revolution comes... Rgds, Dixon Kenner Canadian Forestry Service Natural Resources Canada From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sat Feb 10 13:37:29 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:37:29 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Camel Trophy...wrong message! This Camel Trophy thing is really getting to me. As events go this one seems to be an ostensibly benign show of testosterone, financial largesse and the capabilities of Land Rover vehicles, but I'm really tired of the cigarette manufacturers using this kind of grandstand event to promote their dangerous products, especially when it involves Rovers. I suppose the message they're trying to send is that anyone who smokes Camel cigarettes is buying into this glamorous adventure-filled lifestyle where one drives expensive 4x4s through the jungle and to overcome incredible obstacles on their way to victory. This kind of advertising really stinks. I'm not against corporate sponsorship of racing, but the message tobacco advertisers send is so exquisitly decieving-especially to young people-that the glamor/tobacco connection is made at an almost unconscious level. No one can deny the truth of the ill effects of long term tobacco use. I urge all of you to push for the removal of Camel cigarettes as a corporate sponsor of this event. BTW, the same goes for Bud, Coors and Miller. Bill Adams 3Dmentia computer animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington, MD 20895 301-949-9475 '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel ...all there From "Ron Franklin" Sat Feb 10 14:29:35 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:29:35 -0500 From: "Ron Franklin" Subject: Engine /trans conversions > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Sounds like what you want is a Perkins 4-203 Diesel. With the LR tranny in [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > Tom Rowe > UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research For all those contemplating engine or transmission substitutions here are a couple of formulas which I have found useful in plotting and planning for the build it yourself LR. : RPM xTire dia (in inches) MPH(at 1:1 in top gear)= ----------------------------- Axle ratio x 336 MPH x Axle ratio x 336 RPM = ------------------------------- Tire diameter (inches) Sorry, you metric types will have to convert on your own. Remember if you are using a 5-spd overdrive transmission that you will have to increase MPH or decrease RPM by the proper factor. Hope you have as much fun dreaming as I did. I got these from a fellow who does this sort of thing all the time. He said he got it from a Hot Rod magazine .Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From "Lee Zeltzer" Sat Feb 10 12:21:42 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:21:42 -0700 From: "Lee Zeltzer" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message! WILLIAM ADAMS wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] > 301-949-9475 > '66 Land Rover S2A 109" Station Wagon Diesel ...all there Bill, I couldn't agree more. Perhaps we can talk Bill Gates into the Win95 trophy; then only those with strong Macintosh loyalties would object. Seriously, the sponsorship of events is a great advertising vehicle for any commercial vendor. I have some trouble defining who is appropriate as an advertiser. I think we need to be able to distinguish the event from a smoke puffing camel. I am sure if another sponsor wanted to do a similar event it would be supported by the community. Don't follow in the role of Senator Exxon and company and try to further restrict the freedom of speech, even commercial speech. -- Lee Zeltzer, Senior Consultant Innovative System Design 100 N. Stone Ave. Suite 605 Tucson AZ 85701 (520)791-3323 X 21 http://www.isdnet.com From Tebbin Salvesen Sat Feb 10 12:21:10 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 12:21:10 -0700 (MST) From: Tebbin Salvesen Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message! On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, WILLIAM ADAMS wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc > This Camel trophy----- seems to me that smoking is still a personal choice (no I dont) also ive never personally seen any adds from camel directly linked to this event as a matter of fact finding ANYTHING about this event seems to be rather hard unless you watch tv at three in the morning! From Rod Steele Sat Feb 10 14:44:42 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:44:42 -0500 From: Rod Steele Subject: LR stories for campfire Greetings, More stories about LR's in Africa for your entertainment one and all: On a trip from Botswana to RSA in 1978, (hi there to our fellow = subscriber in Cape Town), we got a flat (driving a SIII 109). No = problem the old man jumps out, off with the tyre, gently puts a band aid = around the hole (found by immersing the inner tube in our drinking = water, which acquired a new flavour and went back in the bottle for = emergencies only), replaces the tube and tyre, and pumps like a madman = (a regular foot pump). The band aid was successfully trapped against = the inner wall of the tyre. We got all the way to Johannesburg, another = 900km, with only a top up from the foot pump. There was a german fellow working alone in the dunes/desert along the = skeleton coast in SWA/Namibia about five years ago. Managed to kill his = battery, and decided push starting was out of the question. No problem, = he hooks out the alternator , connects it to a homemade windmill on the = roof of the LR and wires it to charge the battery. Sits back for a = good few hours, and waits. The winds here, particularly near the coast = can be impressive. When he put everything back together, he had = restored enough charge to start the LR. I can't tell you what model, or = how long it took to charge it, if I had known then I was going to bump = into you fellow enthusiasts of the legend five years later on the net = from Canada, I would have asked, honest. All the best for '96 one and all Rod Steele rsteele@mail.transdata.ca '49 80" '54 86" '64 109" From Rod Steele Sat Feb 10 14:41:37 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 14:41:37 -0500 From: Rod Steele Subject: Re: BB list Congratulations, an excellent constructive idea, my info is in your box = Doug. I look forward to installing a BB badge on the grill of my 80in. Rod From "Ron Franklin" Sat Feb 10 15:39:55 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:39:55 -0500 From: "Ron Franklin" Subject: Engine /trans conversions (further) > RPM xTire dia (in inches) > MPH(at 1:1 in top gear)= ----------------------------- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Remember if you are using a 5-spd overdrive transmission that you will have > to increase MPH or decrease RPM by the proper factor. After I sent this I can see that I was unclear. The RPM figure used is the input RPM at the differential. You will of course have to figure that out using the transmission/overdrive and transfer ratio to engine speed. Check the owners manual for these. It's relatively easy for 2WD cars which see 1:1 in and out of the transmission in top gear but 4WD transfer case transmissions use all sorts of strange ratios. sorry if I confused anyone. Ron Franklin Bowdoin, Maine, USA From "John C. White, III" Sat Feb 10 13:43:51 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:43:51 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: message format You've got your automatic signature block set. If you're using Eudora click on menu options "special/settings/send mail." There is a check box "use signature" that turns this on/off. Your signature is defined from menu "Window/Signature." Other e-mail front ends have similar features. Cheers! John At 00:00 10.02.96 -0500, ASFCO@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 106 lines)] > Thanks, > Steve From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Feb 10 17:18:29 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:18:29 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Series: "Truth in Advertising" Dixon Kenner writes: > Too bad rust and corrosion > only covers oxidation and not galvanic action which is electrical > in nature. In material science galvanic action aka galvanic corrosion is just a subtype of corrosion. I doubt though that anyone at Solihull would be interested in defending 35 year old ads. Thy'd probably mutter something about changing standards. David Cockey From "Mark Talbot" Sat Feb 10 23:02:13 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 96 23:02:13 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RE: Series bench seats/Safety I used a pair of front seat belts from a Nissan sentra. Found them in a scrap yard. I also took the rear lap belt out of the back to attach it over the rear inward jump seat. All seats belts and attachments comply with industry standards. All the bolts are the same. The cost of all belts was (I think) $10. Doug, sorry to hear about the alternator. I guess now the old gal is being used more often, then things get used ! I only used to use Beryl on weekends, the odd off-road trip, to the dump, the odd Sunday run. Hope Andy got back home okay. I have the door lock here, will send the barrel and key down next week. When you come over to get the other spare, rear seat, I can give you the door lock then. Mark ---------- From Duncan Brown Sat Feb 10 18:19:08 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:19:08 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message! > I suppose the message they're trying to send is that anyone who smokes Camel > cigarettes is buying into this glamorous adventure-filled lifestyle where one > drives expensive 4x4s through the jungle and to overcome incredible obstacles > on their way to victory. > I urge all of you to push for the removal of Camel cigarettes as a corporate > sponsor of this event. But are they?!? Find me any connection between Camel cigarettes and the Camel Trophy these days, or any use by the Camel cigarettes folks of the Camel Trophy in their advertising. It's "Camel Trophy Brands" or somesuch that owns the thing and its spinoff mechandise these days, right? It may well have been Camel cigarettes originally, and for all I know, the same tobacco company owns this "Camel Trophy Brands" as a shell corporation. But I haven't seen any overt link between the Camel Trophy and cigarettes in a very long time. Heck, given the strenuous physical activities the participants have to undergo, it's a pretty safe bet none of them are smokers! hack hack wheeze... Duncan, happy to work at a smoke-free company (the remaining smokers have to go off the property entirely!) From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sat Feb 10 18:46:35 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 18:46:35 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Progress? What's up?....for the past few days, I've received several digests. One will have a handful (or one, as today) message, then another with the normal count. Anyway, spent the day trying to get the rear frame crossmember on. First Saturday since December when there wasn't rain, snow, ice or the flu. Also spent a considerable time grinding *more* galvanizing off the replacement, and it didn't fit quite right. A word of advice...*DON'T* consider buying a galvanized repair piece...just go regular steel and paint the hell out of it. Galvanizing makes sense when dealing with the entire frame, but it is a pain in the arse for repair work. And even so, I've got a good dose of 'fume fever' right now even though I was wearing a mask. Things were going pretty well - tried both straight and reverse polarity to get a good arc, then the worst thing happened when I was about 80% done - I ran out of wire! Damn. At 5 PM on a Saturday. Double damn. One of these days, maybe I'll finish.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates) Sat Feb 10 15:59:02 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:59:02 -0800 From: uf974@freenet.victoria.bc.ca (Clinton D. Coates) Subject: New member from Canada Hi everyone! I was shlepping around on the 'net looking for anything Landy, and joy of joys, discovered lro digest. I am the proud owner of 'Emerson' a blue 1961 2 1/4l LWB pickup with 20K on a complete Roverworks BC rebuild. I have some powertrain info requests that I am hoping to get answered: * Is there any way to get more performance out of the 2.25l gas motor?(wild laughter) I have a single barrel Weber that works quite well and gives 17mpg (US gal). -Atlantic British supplies a 2 barrel Weber and header kit that is supposed to boost performance by about 15%. Does this work? I am concerned about the lack of a heat riser in the header as I live in Kamloops and make occasional winter trips to Prince George (the last time it went down to -40C plus a howling wind). -I have heard mumblings about degreeing the camshaft and port matching the intake manifold... is it worth it? -Do Splitfire plugs make a difference? -How about the electronic ignition kit? * Saggy ignition in the rain. Is this simply a gift from the Prince of Darkness that I have to live with, or is there a cure? New points/condenser/cap/rotor/ plugs/etc. do not help. Silicone spray liberally applied partially helps though. * Motor conversions. Are there any good conversions with North American available parts that work well in the LR? I would eventually prefer to get a diesel in the truck. Huge size and screaming performance are not important. Ease of installation, lack of trauma to the bodywork/chassis and no undue overloading on the suspension is. I was wondering about Volvo, Mercedes and Audi (VW?) turbo diesels...or perhaps the 2.5l LR TDi? * Does driving with the front hubs unlocked really wear out the swivel pin housings? * A nation wide network of LR people willing to help seems like an excellent idea. My address is as follows: Clinton D. Coates RR.3 Site 11, Comp. 5 Kamloops, BC Canada Tel:(604) 578-7372 Fax: (604) 578-8544 If you are in trouble near Prince George, try calling my mother (ever sympathetic to our cause) Myrna Coates (604) 996-8532 Good luck and good rovering Clinton D. Coates From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Sat Feb 10 19:11:44 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:11:44 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: D130 Dormobiles???? Dear all, A recent input stated that Roy Wassili saw a Dormobile D130. Hum, although I wish that vehicle could exist, Martin Walter Ltd,the company that built the Dormobiles was out of business before the introduction of the Defender line. They folded around 1983, and the last Land Rover based Dormobile was thought to be around 1976. Too bad, a D130 Dormobile conversion could be quite impressive. See ya. Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co. From ericz@cloud9.net Sat Feb 10 16:30:58 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:30:58 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Discovery Cooling system On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, John Antram wrote: > Last week, we noticed a strong smell of anti-freeze coming from >our 1995 Discovery. For a couple of days, we could not locate the leak. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >and that it was not properly tightened from LR. Other Discovery/defender >owners may want to keep an eye on this area too. I had the same type of symptoms on my V8. The location you're describing is also where the heater lines exit the engine (on the older V8s at least). One of the small rubber lines had developed a pinhole leak. If your problem persists, you might want to check the hose clamps on those fittings. Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Sat Feb 10 16:31:03 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:31:03 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message! On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >This Camel Trophy thing is really getting to me. >BTW, the same goes for Bud, Coors and Miller. Land Rovers (at least in my book) stand for individuality and self-reliance. Our society, however, has progressed (regressed?) to the point that the individual is not expected to take responsibility for his or her own actions. Witness the recent telecommunications act. The government has decided that we are unable to make concious decisions and take proactive action on the behalf of our own children. As a Land Rover owner, I attempt to escape (however slightly) from this governmental paternalism that invades our lives. If Camel Cigarettes wants to sponsor the Trophy, they are free and should be free to do so. If the media wants to cover the Trophy....once again, they are free to do so. Each and every one must take responsibility for ourselves and our own children, that is the cost (one I am glad to bear) of the freedoms we enjoy. Certianly, smoking and drinking damage people's health. So does spending an afternoon soaked with 90wt oil, it is up to each INDIVIDUAL to decide what risks he or she is willing to take...and to teach them to his or her children. Blaming advertising and the media for people making the wrong choices is an abdication of this right and responsibility. 'Nuff said ... back to Rover stuff? Eric From ASFCO@aol.com Sat Feb 10 19:54:57 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 19:54:57 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: Engine serial numbers (Series) Thanks Dave...............Steve From clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Sat Feb 10 17:20:43 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 17:20:43 +0000 From: clapp.carol@mail.viacomcv.hybrid.com (Carol Clapp) Subject: Black D90 spotted I spotted a black D90 (Bianchi Construction on the side), on 30 or 31 Jan in San Ramon, CA. It was still cracking as it cooled down. I waited a while but guess the occupant(s) had gone to lunch. Is it anyone out there?? On this net?? It was parked near my white Wrangler. My SII is not road-worthy yet. Carol 1959 SII 88" Bagpuss From slade@sisna.com Sun Feb 11 17:14:26 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 17:14:26 -0700 From: slade@sisna.com Subject: Re: LR stories for campfire Ok, here's my contribution: This story was told to me by James P. Blair, staff photographer for National Geographic for 27 years. He was staying with my wife and I for a week while in Utah for a photojournalism workshop. When he found out I had a Land-Rover that's all he would let me drive him around in. It had been years since he had driven one and remembered the double-clutching was tricky. Anyhow, on to the story... While on assignment in Africa, the writer for the story he was working on purchcased a Land-Rover (I'm using the hyphen as this was back in the 60's) for travel accross the country. He couldn't remember if it was a 109 or an 88 when I pressed for more details (funny, he could remember almost everything else about his travels around the world :)). They were driving in a blinding rainstorm after having months of draught, so of course they hadn't tried out the windshield wiper motors to see if they worked. They didn't. They were driving down a washboard and bumpy trail and could barely see out the front window enough to see the road. Apparently (as the story goes) they had just left Egypt where they had had more than a few brushes with the legendary King Cobra, and by that time Jim had developed quite a fear of snakes (ala Indiana Jones). The Land-Rover was pitching and bumping and rattling wildly as they rambled down the trail. Suddenly, and without warning, a big snake raised it's head out from the middle of the spare tyre attatched to the hood (he didn't know that was a popular option) and swayed back and forth in rhythm with the truck. The driver (after hearing Jim scream) slammed on the brakes and stopped the truck, upon which the snake retreated back into the wheel. After catching thier breath for a few minutes they decided to leave the snake in the wheel, as neither one of them wanted to risk a confrontation with the deadly reptile, not to mention getting wet. They continued on their journey down the road and after they got up to speed again the snake reappeared and resumed it's dance in front of the windscreen. Jim yelled again and the Land-Rover came to a screeching halt once more. Jim was carrying a pistol at his side for 'emergencies' and immidiately handed it to his writer. He also handed him his walking stick and sent him out into the pounding rain. Jim watched through the wet windscreen as his writer peered up to look into the wheel, trying to see the snake through the darkness. He could see nothing, so proceeded to poke at the snake with the walking stick. Nothing still. He slowly crept up to the tyre, pistol drawn, ready to fire at a minutes notice. Peering into the hole he reached in with his other hand to grab the snake and throw it out. Suddenly he lept back screaming flailing his arm wildly. Jim, barely able to see a thing, jumped back and yelled at the same time. When his writer quit laughing enough to show Jim what he had grabbed from the wheel, Jim had already figured it out, and was not as amused. He had remembered that they had kept their length of tow-rope coiled up in a very handy spot in the wheel, and realized that the rope waving in the wind was their 'King Cobra'. He had no explanation for why the rope had come up and waved in the wind like a snake, but it didn't really matter. It made me laugh, and was a great story involving not only Land-Rovers, but a photographer as well. Anyhow, hope you enjoyed. I'll probably change it a bit and make it my own, so if you hear me telling it around the campfire at the Portland meet, just let me finish, OK!! Regards, Michael -Proud father, husband and Land-Rover owner- From Nathan Dunsmore Sat Feb 10 22:08:10 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:08:10 -0500 From: Nathan Dunsmore Subject: What the heck is that Thang??!! Dear all on the list: I am putting the electric back into my Rover and I have found an extra little doodle which has the Lucas name on it, it is rectangular and sits immediately to the left of the voltage regulator with a wire running to the regulator. None of my manuals say anything about this "thang" and all the other electrical ditzels which sit on the dashpanel are accounted for (starter solenoid, ignition coil, fuse box, voltage regulator). Is this some sort of fix for a partially defective voltage regulator? Help me before I reach for the hammer. Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, MD 21020 dunsmo19@us.net >From time to time on the main list and the mendo_recce list I have seen comments about a Land Rover dealer in Atlanta, Georgia. Mr. Sean Sinkule owns the dealer, Renewed Traditions. The company is primarily an importer of vintage Land Rovers, a refurbisher, and a custom builder. I have no connection whatever with Mr. Sinkule, his company, or with any of his employees. Having seen Mr. Sinkule's E-mail address in the main list (atlanta67@aol.com) I sent a note asking for information, i.e., vehicles currently in stock, prices and options. The following day Mr. Sinkule sent a note explaining the concept of Renewed Traditions, the stock on hand, estimated time from order to delivery, and firm dollar numbers regarding both his stock in hand and available options. I telephoned Mr. Sinkule at 0600 California Standard Time (0900 Georgia Time). I am a firm believer in telephoning on "cheap time" whenever possible. Mr. Sinkule was extremely helpful, candid, and forthright. He faxed a multi page inventory to me within minutes. In my search for the "perfect" Land Rover (a 109 five door) I have spoken with many sellers, owners, dealers, honest folk and quick buck artists. Mr. Sinkule appears to be an honest businessman, giving honest value for money. I have no idea at all If I will buy a vehicle from Renewed Traditions. However there are two members of the main list who have given him good marks and related his vehicles appear sound and well turned out. I have found some "Land Rover Import Companies" I would never call again. Few appear to deliver a product as advertised. The good ones are known, and employees or owners often appear in this list. All appear professional and ethical, including Mr. Sinkule. To my knowledge his is the only company of any size specializing in Series vehicles in the South East of the United States. I was impressed with his knowledge of his product, the Series Land Rover, his professionalism in discussing what he could and could not do, costs associated with his work, and the availability or lack of availability of some vehicles. In the past I have been told vehicles have been available, when in fact they have not. That was not so with Mr. Sinkule. For those interested in a dealer specializing in Series vehicles I have included Renewed Traditions' telephone number, and Mr. Sinkule's E-mail address. For what it is worth, my sister lives in the Greater Atlanta area. She had no idea Renewed Traditions existed. Mr. Sean Sinkule Renewed Traditions Telephone: (770) 392-1593 E-mail: atlanta67@aol.com If this note sounds like a paean to "Renewed Traditions" or to Sean Sinkule, it really is not. As a hard nosed police supervisor I always wanted to know whom I should do business with, and whom to avoid. Relating positive (or negative) experiences to others likely to use the services of a vehicle restorer is positive. We need to know who those people are whom we may want to patronize, and those whom we may want to avoid at all costs. I am certain there will be future notes on "The Search for The Perfect Rover." Glenn Thrall gthrall@ix.netcom.com From "John Y. Liu" Sat Feb 10 20:03:31 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 20:03:31 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Fuel Injection (Was New Member From Canada) At 03:59 PM 2/10/96 -0800, you wrote: >I was shlepping around on the 'net looking for anything >Landy, and joy of joys, discovered lro digest. I am [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] >-Do Splitfire plugs make a difference? >-How about the electronic ignition kit? I've suggested the following before, in hopes that someone will actually look into it. Here goes again. Holley makes a number of "Pro-Jection" throttle-body fuel injection kits for 4-cyl applications. Model 3739, flowing 300 cfm, is meant for 1980's GM "Iron Duke" engines and reportedly provides a 10-15% power increase over stock carburated GM engines. Who knows how it might help a Land Rover 2.25, but I would think there is more more for inprovement there than a mid-1980's GM Iron Duke. There is also a similar Pro-Jection kit meant for 4 cyl Jeep applications. If either of these fit, or could be made to fit, it seems fuel injection would give you better fuel economy, more power, better cold starting, and easy adjustability (from the driver's seat) of mixture, etc. -- as well as a very unique Land Rover. Combined with electronic ignition (suitably waterproofed) you might have something pretty special. For info contact Holley at 502 781 9741. I have nothing to do with Holley -- I got a book about Pro-Jection when I was considering it for my Ford. From fhyap@ix.netcom.com (Franklin H. Yap ) Sat Feb 10 21:07:26 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 21:07:26 -0800 From: fhyap@ix.netcom.com (Franklin H. Yap ) Subject: GPS There are several GPS sites on the net. They include: A practical guide to GPS http://www.fys.uio.no/~kjetikj/fjellet/GPS1.html Introduction to GPS http://galaxy.einet.net/editors/john-beadles/introgps.html An overview of GPS http://wwwhost.cc.utexas.edu/ftp/pub/grg/gcraft/notes/gps/gps.html GPS resource page http://www.inn.bppt.go.id/~chilmar/gps.html NavTech GPS Store http://204.91.49.11/navtech.com/index.html Road Warrior Consumer GPS Products http://warrior.com/trimble/index.html GPS are sold by the stores listed and they are a good place to get an idea of prices. From Dean Cording Sun Feb 11 16:28:24 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:28:24 +1100 (EST) From: Dean Cording Subject: Re: Cold start warning switch on seriesIII On 9 Feb 1996, Alan Richer wrote: > The circuit on that bulb is fairly simple: > +12 ---- Bulb----Switch on the cold-start cable----- thermostatic switch on the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > housing, held in place with a triangular pattern of small bolts and with a > slide fastener connector sticking up out of the center of it. Well, according to my Series III factory workshop manual the light is only activated by a switch on the choke cable and there is no mention of a thermostatic switch. This corresponds with what's on my Series III. However the switch is connected to the choke cable inside the steering column shroud. Dean ============================================================================= Dean Cording ASPECT Computing P/L 86 Northbourne Ave Dean.Cording@aspect.com.au (Work) Canberra, ACT, 2601, AUSTRALIA Dean@holly.aspect.com.au (Private) ACN. 005 083 670 From Adam Leigh Kitchen Sat Feb 10 22:26:54 1996 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 22:26:54 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Leigh Kitchen Subject: BB files... Adam Kitchen, Ser. IIa 109 reg. Bryn Mawr, Pa. (close suburb of Philadelpha) (610) 525-5812 Certified Emergency Medical Technician Basic mechanical knowlege, few tools, no garage space. Place to sleep for a night, breakfast is on me. Directions, local knowlege, and usually a beer or two. From mhooker@compusmart.ab.ca (Mike Hooker) Sun Feb 11 06:43:40 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 06:43:40 GMT From: mhooker@compusmart.ab.ca (Mike Hooker) Subject: Birmabrite Brotherhood Just a caution... I know how tempting it is to rush to the rescue of a fellow Series owner in trouble- just be aware(gasp) that not everyone that owns a Rover is your friend, no matter where he got your number. A couple of years ago, I got a phone call 5 minutes after getting in the door from Christmas vacation, very late New Years Day."I'm driving a Landie cross-country and have had engine trouble...I've been staying with so-and-so but his wife is fed up and I need a place for a day or two...please help!" I won't dig myself deeper into a "stupid" pit by boring you with the gory details, suffice it to say that he did not "own" the Rover he was driving and he put us through hell,along with several other local Club members before word got around and the long-distance phone bills came in("no problem-I'll reverse the charges! Trust no one. Mike Hooker '62 109 Wagon From Tomas Felner Sun Feb 11 15:31:15 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 15:31:15 +0100 (MET) From: Tomas Felner Subject: Buying a Land Rover in South Africa Hi folks! I'm new to this list so please forgive any FAQs. I am plannig to travel South Africa, Namibia, Botswana and Zimbabwe for a couple of months and am considering to get a Land Rover to do this. I'm completely new to Land Rovers and am looking for information. I have found a wealth of stuff on the Web which already helps a lot. What I need now is some help with actually buying a Land Rover in South Africa, preferably in Cape Town. Does anybody know how to go about, where to look for, price ideas, maybe even someone who could help? Any information is appreciated. Thanks a lot, - Tom //// (. .) +-------------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------------------------------+ | Phone: +41-1-632-7253 Fax: +41-1-632-1172 | | Institute for Informationsystems, Database Group, IFW C 48.1 | | Haldeneggsteig 4, ETH Zentrum, CH - 8092 Zurich, Switzerland | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ From "Mark Talbot" Sun Feb 11 15:50:17 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 15:50:17 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: parts from UK Okay, I may dread doing this, but here goes. Work is now requiring me to support our operations in Europe. I will be based in the UK and going there about 10 days a month for a year. So, if anyone in the NE requires me to bring back SMALL manageable parts for their Land Rovers let me know. There are some rules, you call the company and place the order, you pay for it and I will bring it back. Mark From PurnellJE@aol.com Sun Feb 11 10:54:12 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 10:54:12 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Discovery Cooling system In a message dated 96-02-10 12:58:54 EST, you write: >Other Discovery/defender >owners may want to keep an eye on this area too. My Defender leaks there too...but I like it that way, so I'm not gonna tell the dealer. If I tell the dealer, then they'll fix it and the truck will start leaking somewhere else. John. From Gene Sparks Sun Feb 11 07:57:34 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 07:57:34 -0800 From: Gene Sparks Subject: Birmabright Brotherhood Add me to the list. Gene Sparks Aberdeen WA 360-532-7869 360-533-3852 Days Garage Auto trailer generally avail (Ryder Truck Dealer) Tools Disco Workshop Manual Fair Mechanic (Access to mechanic on weekends) Coffees always on, overnights OK in emergency From eec@interaccess.com (Edward Chambers) Sun Feb 11 10:47:28 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 10:47:28 -0600 From: eec@interaccess.com (Edward Chambers) Subject: '97 NAS Defenders to be Available? Hi all: I was at the Chicago Auto Show yesterday and swung by the Land Rover display. I was talking with one of the LR guys there who worked for one of the local LR dealerships. He told me that the Defender 90 was going to be re-introduced in the US in 1997. It supposedly will intitially be available with Auto trans., but will be available in either the wagon or rag-top. Supposedly, it will also have air-bags, side impact rails, abs, etc., and etc. I didn't get a chance to ask alot of detailed questions, although it seemed as if he only knew sketchy information about it anyway. Has anyone heard anything like this? This would be fantastic news, but I don't know how to confirm it. Best Regards, Ed Chambers eec@interaccess.com From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Feb 11 17:51:49 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 17:51:49 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: RR wheel bearing Steve Methley wrote: >Shaun wrote: >>While installing tires and new rear springs, the mechanic noticed a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >I'd want some answers to this before I gave him any more work, or have >I missed something? Sure did, Steve. There is a very clear sign that the wheel bearing does not get enough lubrication in a Land Rover product. If there is no oil leaking out of a hub, there is a problem! Sorry about that. Shaun, Steve is right, I think. Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W Vienna, Austria From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Feb 11 17:51:47 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 17:51:47 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Series: Truth in Advertising Dean Cording wrote: >I picked up a copy of the original Series I brochure from my dealer >today. Apparently they have reprinted them to emphasise the 'Land Rover [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >going" >Remember this is a Series I soft-top they are talking about. Well - two out of six is bad for advertising? Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W Well-ventilated in Vienna, Austria From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Feb 11 17:51:52 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 17:51:52 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Cold start warning switch on seriesIII Dean Cording wrote: >On 9 Feb 1996, Alan Richer wrote: >> The circuit on that bulb is fairly simple: >> +12 ---- Bulb----Switch on the cold-start cable----- thermostatic switch on the > [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >> housing, held in place with a triangular pattern of small bolts and with a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >However the switch is connected to the choke cable inside the steering >column shroud. Don't have an SIII manual (yet), but both my SI and my SIIa manuals show a Thermostat switch for choke warning light (part number 213574) and a Thermostat switch for mixture warning light (part number 545010), respectively, on the cylinder head. Makes sense, too, unless your warning light is always on when your choke is pulled. Early remote control? Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W (non-operative choke warning light) Vienna, Austria From ALFISTI@aol.com Sun Feb 11 12:43:46 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 12:43:46 -0500 From: ALFISTI@aol.com Subject: RE: Birmabright Brotherhood (Doug Scott) SACME@aol.com wrote: >Why do I get the feeling I started something (gulp!). There seems to be some >interest in putting together a directory of LR/RR/Def/Disco owners, if there ~~~~ >"Birmabright Brotherhood" has a nice ring to it, I think, but there may be >some who feel that it is sexist - again, let's hear what you think about it >and everything else. "B....Bunch"? "....Bumblers?" AROC (Alfa Romeo Owner's Club) does something like this and publishes it annually in one of the monthly newsletters. I put that issue in the trunk of my car and leave it there, just in case. A very good idea for us. They use letter codes to show what level of help you can expect. I.e., W=works space avail, T=tools avail, M=mechanical/technical help offered, D=spare bed avail, C=coffee and consversation, E=contact only if an emergency. BTW, I've been in their list for ten years with not one call. Of course, I am somewhat off the beaten path. Jim Northern New Messico "I gotta do all my own work...couldn't afford this habit otherwise" '94 Disco '88 Alfa Milano 3.0 '81 MB 300tdt '71 IH Travelall 4x4 (Sold!) From Rick Thomas Sun Feb 11 17:52:32 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 17:52:32 PST From: Rick Thomas Subject: New E-Mail Address Hi there, I am about to cancel my subscription with Celtic, and therefore started a new account with Pipex. My new E-Mail addreess is aas39@dial.pipex.com Byee. Rick..... ------------------------------------------------------------- He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I've ever met. - Abraham Lincon (1809 - 1865) -------------------------------------------------------------- From ASFCO@aol.com Sun Feb 11 13:38:41 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:38:41 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: '97 NAS Defenders to be Available? I'm sure Jim Pappas will see this message and comment on it as soon as he gets the correct info...if anyone knows...it's Jim. Rgds, Steve From ASFCO@aol.com Sun Feb 11 13:38:42 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 13:38:42 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: test message please just delete All; This ia a test message only, this is a test messgae only. I beleive I have corrected my formatting problems thru my server. I am hopeful that this problem has been corrected and that my future messages/ postings to the list will appear in their proper format. Please bear with me as I ramble here a bit in order to see if the problem has been corrected and that things are as they should be. Rgds, Steve 72 S lll 68 S lla End of Test From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Feb 11 12:37:52 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 12:37:52 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: message format Steve asks... > Does anyone have an idea as to why my postings are coming out the way >they are??(with the signature way at the bottom of the page??) I really do >know how to compose a letter and where to put the signature. !! It's gotta be some AOL crap, Steve. When you position your "signature", try putting it on the left side of the page, just one or two lines below the text. Cheers Mike From William Caloccia Sun Feb 11 15:31:57 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 15:31:57 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: the 'FOO Trophy' and 'FOO Tropy Adventure Wear' Well guys, you haven't been paying attention. Years ago, the 'FOO Trophy' was sponsored by a tobacco company, but now it is more insidious, you see, FOO, the cigarette company, can't get coverage in significant bits of europe, due to laws preventing the advertising of cigarettes (those of you following F1 recall that some circuits have the vehicles run w/o logos so they can get air coverage on the tele) Nope, the official sponser of the 'FOO Trophy', as it is still commonly referred to is 'FOO Trophy Adventure Wear', that's right a self-fulfilling spin off of FOO. To sell 'FOO Trophy Adventure Wear' badged drygoods and support the event. (Didn't you wonder why 'Bar Gear' began getting pushed in a big way a couple years ago with 'Bar Tokens' and 'Bar Gear' stores in Covent Gardent and other fashionable places ?) So, of course, just like on your selves, this subtle distinction is lost on folks who don't follow these things so closely, and they don't make the distinction between FOO 'death sticks' and 'FOO Trophy Adventure Wear', but be wary that the message about the 'FOO Trophy Adventure Wear' is not restricted in reaching them, and the gear is considered fashionable or chic, so they're encouraged to acquire it, thus lending credibility to its being fashionable, and passing the message on that Smoking FOO is cool. (err, wearing 'FOO Trophy Adventure Wear' is cool.) Between that and BAR Gear, you've got twice as many reasons to dis-like the nicotine pushers. Now like they say on Madison, no publicity is bad publicity, so stop bitching about them to the list and figure out what *you* and do about it besides moan. Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com P R http://www.OpenMarket.com/personal/caloccia/ http://www.senie.com/billc/ D R 1 3 2wd H 1 3 R dl OD L L 3 +--|--| o | |--|-+ o | | | 2 2 4 4wd L 2 4 ul N H H 1 '63 SIIa RHD 88" '72 Range Rover '90 RR County 793-PTA DAJ-802-L Dewsbury, UK (for sale) PS: if you do have a Smoking Joe hat then whip out your BAR GEAR swiss army knife and carefully cut the threads for the cigarette and smoke, then remove them and paint a big red null over Smoking Joe. Wear it with pride, protesting advertising cigarettes aimed at children. PPS did you ever notice how the format of the lro list logo has a faint resemblance to the FOO Trophy logo ? Disclaimer: of course my employer would dis-own making these comments, 'cause they didn't make them, nor did I make them on their behalf, and if someone dropped a like almost-new 'FOO Trophy Adventure' vehicle in my drive, I'd consider not stating similar observations in public in the future, but I'd reserve the right to repaint it :-) ------- End of Forwarded Message From newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Sun Feb 11 22:27:51 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:27:51 GMT From: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) Subject: Re: Buying a Land Rover in South Africa >What I need now is some help with actually buying a Land Rover in South >Africa, preferably in Cape Town. Does anybody know how to go about, where to >look for, price ideas, maybe even someone who could help? Any information is >appreciated. Hi Tom You could contact a friend of mine in Cape Town, and he may be able to assist you. He is Toren Wing (an Englishman) and his email address is: wing@gem.co.za Best of luck. David Olley ............................................................................ ......... Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ ......... From David Scott Mary Ann Sun Feb 11 16:45:12 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:45:12 -0600 From: David Scott Mary Ann Subject: body work Can anyone in rover world tell me any tricks to repairing the rust on = LR doors. If there is no structural rust it still seems that you must = take the skin off and sand blast the frame to really get rid of the = rust long term. Any tricks for removing the aluminum skin. Has anyone = used OS-PHO to get rid of the rust rather than sand blast. Any = experience with the aftermarket door rubber seals? Are the riveted = ones really worth it. Is there anyone out there that rebuilds heaters? = Have a great day. birddog "all of us are ignorant, just about different = things" Will Rogers From KKelly6788@aol.com Sun Feb 11 18:08:06 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 18:08:06 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Camel Trophy >I'm really tired of the cigarette manufacturers using this kind of grandstand >event to promote their dangerous products The Camel Trophy is NOT sponsored by the Camel cigarette company it is sponsored by Worldwide Brands, Inc., the marketer of Camel Trophy Adventure gear and clothing. Most of the British Land Rover magazines have ads for this stuff (boots, jackets, watches, etc.) BTW Phillip Morris owns Worldwide Brands. Kevin Kelly From ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon) Sun Feb 11 17:57:31 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 17:57:31 -0600 From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu (Arnold Yoon) Subject: D90 SW FOUND!!!! Hi Fellow LRO's!! If anyone is interested, I just spoke to a dealer rep who said that he had two D90SWs (white) on his lot...and a third one coming in...I think that he said that it was Conniston Green....He said that they were asking 32.5K........If ya'll are interested, drop an e-mail.....I'll get the card and number for you.... Hmmm...A rarity indeed.....and very close to me! Arnold Yoon University of Wisconsin - Madison E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu Voice: (608) 259-9936 Land Rover 4 Ever! 1995 Land Rover Discovery "Four Wheel Drive Exemplified" From Adam Leigh Kitchen Sun Feb 11 15:56:46 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 15:56:46 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Leigh Kitchen Subject: Holy Rovers...(Stories for the campfire) Last Feb, right around this time, I decided to suprise my girlfriend in Texas by showing up out of nowhere on Valentines Day. I was living in Oregon at the time, and driving my SIII 88. This truck never should have made it out my driveway, much less the 2500 or so miles to San Antonio. But, I had to see her! I bought a case of oil, a jerry can and off I went. I managed to go from Eugene, Or. to Pomona, Ca. in two days, filling the rig with gas and oil as needed. I found that a brick made for good cruise controll, or a sneaker shoved inbetween the accelerator and firewall. I'd guess that my top speed was around 70 mph. Here's where it gets wierd. I left Pomona after a days rest, and about a half hour east of town, I got off the interstate for various reasons. There, sitting on his rucksack at the end of the ramp, was the hitch-hiker I'd soon know as Ray. Ray was a clean cut looking man of about 40, and carried a large rucksack and gymbag. As I passed him again on my way to get back on the interstate, I stoped. I intended only to offer some encouraging words, and a can of pop I had. You can imagine my suprise when, upon stopping, I invited him into my hallowed Rover! The words came from me but were not mine. It was immidiately rationalized by my mind as being "A very swift change of heart". We made our intruductions, and struck out for the highway. I asked how far he was headed, and he said Corpus Christi. I was shocked! I was going to San Antonio, and here was thid guy that wanted to go the whole way too! What a lucky day for him. Anyway, Ray was very religious. An ex con, a former Hell's Angel who had seen the "light". I'm not a very religious man, but we had some interesting theological debates. He was devout, not demented, and an inteligent conversationilst. He had his ways, though. He began by Blessing my rig. I laughed it off in my head, not wanting to offend. Here's the thing, though. The rig stopped leaking oil. No, it did not dry up! :) It just stopped leaking. There's a million reasons why it happened, I'm sure. It just was a strange coincidence. That was the first day. On the second day, wew were in New Mexico near the border of Arizona when the cabin filled with strong gas fumes. we opened the windows and drove on, into arizona. When we couldnt bear it, we pulled over and looked under the hood. Ray messed around ion there doing god knows what, but at the least he tightened up damn near every bolt in that engine bay. The fumes no longer plagued us! Not suprising, no. Just that I would not have known what to do, and Ray had some idea. He helped me out in return for the ride. In the H.A.M.C., Ray was called Artiste. He had a real talent for drawing. I had a Harley back in oregon, and when he found out our bond grew. He pulled a grease pencil from his bag and drew a huge eagle on my rear window. It was something! The last thing in this story, although many more things happened on the trip is the part about the invisible rest stop. We were somewhere in the barren lands of tex-mex country, when I lost my belt. The thermometer shot up and the charge light came on, and Ray said that I had thrown a belt. I started cursing, and searched the landscape for a place to somehow fix this problem. At this point, a broken belt was way over my head as far as mechanical expertise went. I looked down at the Temp gague, and found the needle pointing to "full" on the gas gague. Arrgh! When I looked up, however, I was struck dumb by what I saw. An overpass. At the end of that, a gas station with a garage. To this day, it mystifies me. Now did i not see it?!?! We were in the middle of the desert! Flat pretty much described the whole landscape. And there it was. The had a belt the right size, even! I still dodn't know if god exists, but I'll bet it does for Ray. I won't soon forget him, that's for sure! Hope this wasnt to long! Adam Kitchen SerIIa 109 reg. From David Scott Mary Ann Sun Feb 11 18:06:37 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 18:06:37 -0600 From: David Scott Mary Ann Subject: LR dealers Has anyone had any experience with Harrel Motor Sales and their LR = work. They are an original Series LR dealer till 74 and still rebuilt = and repair LR's. They are located in Waynesville, NC. Have a great day. = birtddog From Dave White Sun Feb 11 23:48:18 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 23:48:18 +0000 From: Dave White Subject: Re: Camel Trophy...wrong message! >Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 13:37:29 >From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) >Subject: Camel Trophy...wrong message! >This Camel Trophy thing is really getting to me. As events go this one seems >to be an ostensibly benign show of testosterone, financial largesse and the >capabilities of Land Rover vehicles, but I'm really tired of the cigarette >manufacturers using this kind of grandstand event to promote their dangerous >products, especially when it involves Rovers. Although I have no love for cigarette manufacturers, the Camel Trophy is an exception to the case for banning cigarette advertising. Many events start and then once they get established the corporate peddlars of drugs jump on the bandwagon and commercialise the event... The Camel Trophy event was not an event that happened and then got sponsored by Camel. It was an event that Camel started and asked Land Rover to participate in. Folklore has it that Jeep were asked first but had no interest in the event. (Although I have a sneaking feeling that the first event did use Jeeps - but I may be wrong, it's happened before...) It would perhaps be unfair now to suggest that the event could continue without the Camel name or logos. The only message that I see coming from the Camel Trophy is one of team spirit and camerarderie. Teams from many different countries and backgrounds working together to complete a journey that would not be possible in a solo vehicle. Unlike many competitions, when somebody gets stuck they are not left behind, everybody stops and helps. What's wrong with that message ??? To show how ineffective the Camel Trophy has been in selling cigarettes I can now confess that, although I watch the event every year, I have never had the urge to take up smoking again. :-) ---------------------------------------------------- Dave White. '72 SWB SIII V8 Auto R/R Chassis and running gear. '89 Range Rover Yorkshire Rover Owners Club UK From "John C. White, III" Sun Feb 11 16:22:07 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:22:07 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Okay. The Camel Trophy is sponsored by Worldwide Brands, and Worldwide Brands is owned by Phillip Morris. Phillip Morris makes Camel cigarettes, no? The Camel Trophy logo's lettering looks exactly like the lettering on the Camel cigarette pack. Then again, it could be worse. They could have stuck Joe Camel's phallic face on it. Cheers! John At 18:08 11.02.96 -0500, KKelly6788@aol.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >this stuff (boots, jackets, watches, etc.) BTW Phillip Morris owns Worldwide >Brands. >Kevin Kelly From Michael Kirk Sun Feb 11 20:17:39 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 20:17:39 -0500 From: Michael Kirk Subject: Re: Camel Trophy >The Camel Trophy is NOT sponsored by the Camel cigarette company it is >sponsored by Worldwide Brands, Inc., the marketer of Camel Trophy >Adventuregear and clothing. Wow! somebody figured out who "camel trophy" really is! Kinda like the Maverick in australia -- things are not what we usually associate them with in the U.S....Thanks Kevin -- ============================================================= Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net" 92 Range Rover Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA, USA (804) 440-5383 ============================================================= From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Feb 11 20:17:46 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 20:17:46 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Slipping ZF's Looked at another Range Rover today...it's becoming a real "education." This one was a high-mileage (117k) '89, in pretty good condition overall, but the ZF auto box was slipping between 2nd and 3rd. An auto tranny is not my cup of tea, but the price is reasonable...and negotiable. My guess is the bands need adjustment, but how expensive is work on the ZF and can anyone do it besides the dealer network? Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 11 96 Feb EST 1920 Date: 11 Feb 96 20:26:21 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: 88 wanted Having filled in my tax return last week I realise we are due back a small sum of much needed dollars. We propose to purchase an 88 with some of the money. Are there any 88's for sale in the Western new york area, or in easy travelling distance of Buffalo. Will consider any moderately priced example, preferably hard top, not bothered whether petrol, diesel, or non Rover engine. I am a proficient frame restorer, transmission and engine builder, not too keen on bodywork, but then again not too particular about body condition either. The January Roverlog had one for sale in area code 516, where is that ? Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From Dixon Kenner Sun Feb 11 20:51:20 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 20:51:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: '97 NAS Defenders to be Available? Much better... :-) Dixon Kenner Canadian Forestry Service Natural Resources Canada On Sun, 11 Feb 1996 ASFCO@aol.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > Rgds, > Steve From SACME@aol.com Sun Feb 11 21:02:05 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:02:05 -0500 From: SACME@aol.com Subject: Dr. Ron Thomson's flatland-only LR On 2/7, Ron Thomson said: >My problem is that my 1984 SIII 109, with a nice new Weber >carb on its 2 1/4 petrol, doesn't like pulling up >long gradual hills. It coughs, splutters (even when >over the crest) and dies...etc. I had the same prob with my 72 SIII. I was blaming it on water in the gas and almost got to the point where I was running on straight isoproyl alcohol (Dry-Gas), but still the engine would splutter, kick and just barely get over hills - great stuff on the Maine Turnpike on a winter night. Then it hit me - I had installed a secondary fuel filter just before the carb...about ten (10) years ago, a plastic disposable type. It was black in color and almost totally blocked. About $4.00 at K-Mart and I was ready for LeMans. Stupid me. I keep the fouled filter on my desk as a reminder. Yours sounds like fuel starvation also, and could be located anywhere from the tank to the carb. I would start with the sediment bowl, removing it and checking for water and dirt, also check the screen for blockage and the gasket on which the bowl seats - the fuel pump could be sucking air there. Some carbs have a built-in filter where the fuel line enters the float bowl; I don't know the Weber carb that well and it may not. Also, obviously, check for fuel leaks everywhere and give her a shot of Dry-Gas. No doubt others will have more suggestions. Let us know the outcome so we can learn from it. Good Luck! Doug Scott From Deezilbob@aol.com Sun Feb 11 21:27:41 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:27:41 -0500 From: Deezilbob@aol.com Subject: differential question I own a 67 diesel 21/4 litre which presently has 7:50 16in. tires along with a fairey overdrive. The differentials are the 4.71 ratio which I thought I might replace with the 3.54 type. Would this be worthwhile or does my engine lack enough power and therefore cause me to be straining even going up a slight incline? I am just trying to get the noise level down a little. After 24 yrs. I guess my ears are starting to be bothered.... From ASFCO@aol.com Sun Feb 11 21:27:59 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:27:59 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Re: message format Mike; Thanks I will try it, and, yes the problem lies within AOL Rgds, Steve Hope thats better From Michael Kirk Sun Feb 11 21:50:13 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 21:50:13 -0500 From: Michael Kirk Subject: Re: Slipping ZF's Alexander, These ZF gearboxes are probably the same ones found in the larger BMW's, so the LR dealer says... Except the oil pan is a little different...so possibly AMMCo or a private mechanic like Larry's import center (852 Va Beach Blvd 422-3295), German and British experts could do it?...Worth a try? -- ============================================================= Michael Kirk "michaelk@infi.net" 92 Range Rover Graduate Student, MBA Program, Old Dominion University Norfolk, VA, USA (804) 440-5383 ============================================================= From "ROGER HALL: HNL M.E. GROUP" Sun Feb 11 16:52:16 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 16:52:16 -1000 From: "ROGER HALL: HNL M.E. GROUP" Subject: Re: Slipping ZF's How much are they asking for that '88? From Sanna@aol.com Sun Feb 11 22:18:53 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:18:53 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Slipping ZF's >>how expensive is work on the ZF I burned the clutch on the ZF in my '89, and had a local transmission shop rebuild it. The transmission IS the heavy duty BMW unit, and they were very comfortable working on it. The cost was $820 for a complete rebuild. - Tony From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Feb 11 19:20:14 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 19:20:14 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: MISC. 1) Run don't walk to your nearest LR Centre and ask for the latest necktie - a neat wildlike collage with a great rendition of an NAS D90 in the foreground - in choice of AA YELLOW, PORTO RED, CONISTON GREEN, and ALPINE WHITE!! Really cool! Just saw first one - went for the AA YELLOW since they don't have my favorite - BELUGA BLACK! On those unfortunate occasions where one might have to don a jacket - at least the relief can be provided by one of these neat ties! 2) RE: CAMEL TROPHY. Rather than flame the (R. J. REYNOLDS) tobacco company - perhaps we should all be aware that the Camel Trophy has *LONG AGO* stopped promoting tobacco products. In fact, for quite a few years now, the actual host of this event has been WORLDWIDE BRANDS. The promotion is for CAMEL TROPHY GEAR - clothing, boots, watches, outerwear, etc. - in fact, all high quality, useful gear that many of us use in pursuit of our favorite activities - gettin' dirty in a Land Rover! Perhaps the argument could be made to applaud the considered change from tobacco to clothing by RJR. The logo of the CAMEL TROPHY is about all that remains. The worldwide recognition of the CAMEL TROPHY logo has grown universally enough that the (wise) business decision was made to retain this and to simply change what it stands for. So, if you are or are not a smoker - please continue to enjoy your individual freedom to choose without blowing smoke in any one else's space. Look at the CAMEL TROPHY logo next time and think clothes! 3) BSROA member Mark Hughes has developed a really simple and slick D90 CB antenna mounting bracket which mounts with the number plate lamp assembly with minor modifications. It looks really slick, and the coax can be routed *WITHOUT* drilling any new holes in the D90's skin. This piece will obviously work on a SERIES Landy as well... He has just done a pilot run of them and they are beautifully powder-coated. I will document the installation of same in an upcoming issue of the ROVER REFERENCE. Perhaps we will offer it for sale through the Club Shoppe. Any interest, please post me privately... 4) I had a chap phone me at work the other day to tell me that he had negotiated to purchase a used `95 Black NAS D90 w/15K miles on it (private sale) and felt satisfied that he was able to obtain this vehicle for *the low 30's* w/air conditioning!!! The MSRP on this vehicle when brand new was 30,575! Wow! If any one is looking to sell an NAS D90, do it now! cheerz Jim - see you in the pits `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From Sanna@aol.com Sun Feb 11 22:37:01 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:37:01 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Holy Rovers...(Stories for the campfire) >>Arrgh! When I looked up, however, I was struck dumb by what I saw. An overpass. At the end of that, a gas station with a garage. Rovers may break down, but they'll never leave you stranded. In the 25 years that I've had Lulbelle, she has has broken down or run out of gas many times, but always, and I mean ALWAYS, with coasting distance of helpful people, a gas station, or a freindly farm house. And those times when she busted in the wilderness, she's always brought me home, one way or another, under her own power. Tony From Adam Leigh Kitchen Sun Feb 11 20:42:36 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 20:42:36 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Leigh Kitchen Subject: Two questions.. A) What is the cheapest way to get a new engine in my serII 2&1/4ltr? B) I'd like a coil suspension, but I don't think I can afford them now. Is the only way (to do a coil conversion) to swap my series leaves' for a defender's coils? How about modifying my leaves for a smoother ride? Is that an option, and if so, how should I go about it? Thanks, Adam From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Feb 11 22:07:30 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:07:30 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: 88 wanted On 11 Feb 1996, William L. Leacock wrote: snipped > The January Roverlog had one for sale in area code 516, where is that ? > Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. Hi Bill, Good to see you back on the list. Area code 516 is on Long Island, NY. Only about 450 miles from you(!) One of my pet peeves is the (dis)organization of randomly selected information in phone books, but you should be able to find area codes listed numerically and by location in the front somewhere between cookie baking tips and safe sex techniques. Rgds, Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Feb 11 22:19:37 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 22:19:37 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Michael Kirk wrote: >The Camel Trophy is NOT sponsored by the Camel cigarette company it is >sponsored by Worldwide Brands, Inc., the marketer of Camel Trophy >Adventuregear and clothing. Yes, and would anyone care to guess who in the United States owns Worldwide Brands? It should not come as a great shock to anyone to learn that Camel Brand and Worldwide Brands are very closely related. Rgds, Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From "Matthew Loxton" Sun Feb 11 18:50:11 1996 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 96 18:50:11 UT From: "Matthew Loxton" Subject: Draught after Draught Slade wrote .. They were driving in a blinding rainstorm after having months of draught,.... Hey Micheal, are you sure it was the rain that was blinding them? Drinking draught for months can be quite heavy on the eyelids. :) . From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Mon Feb 12 08:51:08 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 08:51:08 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Re: D130 Dormobiles???? >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >Dormobile was thought to be around 1976. Too bad, a D130 Dormobile >conFrom "barnett childress" Mon Feb 12 7:10:47 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 7:10:47 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Series bench seats/Safety Thank you! If I go the inward bench seat route I will be careful with the installation. Also I will use inertia belts. Regards, Barnett From "barnett childress" Mon Feb 12 7:23:47 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 7:23:47 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:RE: Series bench seats/Safety Mark, Thanks for the seat belt and hdw info. Barnett From "barnett childress" Mon Feb 12 7:59:03 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 7:59:03 -0500 From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:LR good/J##P bad To John Purnell, Et all! John, The other day we were talking about joining some 4WD clubs in our respective areas to find out where all of the good trails are. Do you remember I was worried because a gent with a Defender 90 in the club I was inquiring about had won the "hard luck award" from the club because busted or broke something on every single trail ride he went on? The article in their newsletter said "How can we give the "hard luck award" to someone who owns a Land Rover D90? Because he busted or broke something on the "Highlander" on every single trail ride this year!" Well...I know your ALL going to enjoy this. I called and spoke to the club president Friday after work to ask him what the story was. the driver inexperienced? How tough were the trails? They rate them from 1 to 10 most are around 7-8. What broke and how? I had a hard time believing that people were driving J##PS, Toyotas, Etc. and not having problems? Turns out that "Highlander" is the name of his CJ7! That is what he did all of his trail rides with! He just purchased the Defender. Ahhh...I love a happy ending! Cheers, Barnett From c.j.holdsworth.man1301@oasis.icl.co.uk Mon Feb 12 12:48:35 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 12:48:35 GMT From: c.j.holdsworth.man1301@oasis.icl.co.uk Subject: RE: BMW Badged Land Rover As a new subscriber to the list I hope you all get this. A Disco badged as a BMW does seem an horrendous idea but even worse was the fact that the Disco used to be (is it still ?) sold in Japan as the Honda Crossroads. Anyway, I'm no longer an LRO list virgin. Craig J Holdsworth - Leeds, England 1995 110 Tdi 300 CSW 10 Seater (the love of my life !) From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Feb 12 08:15:58 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 08:15:58 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: '97 NAS Defenders to be Available? In a message dated 96-02-11 11:58:56 EST, you write: >Has anyone heard anything like this? This would be fantastic news, but I >don't know how to confirm it. >. This is very similar to waht I heard early in 95 when I learned of the defenders being axed for 96. They'd come back, with airbags, and a compliant emissions system for Cal. --which will soon be for the entire usa, so don't get smug if your not in calif :>) It makes sense about the automatic trans, as the big concern was the misfire system on the manual transmission. All the jerking around with the manual trans, especially off road, can cause erroneous detections of misfiring plugs. (misfire systems generally sense the crankshaft accelerations/decelerations, and non-misfire-generated accels/decels are more common with a manual.) But face it, who wants to see an automatic Defender? Yuck. I hate it when the emissions control regs make OEMs choose the automatics instead of spending extra effort to make the manuals work. That always struck me as too heavy handed.. I think GM ran into that problem with the 350 V8 F-body a bunch of years back, only an automatic, no manual. John, Manual 1994 D90, manual top, manual start, manual doortop removal, manual payments, manual air conditioning, manual trans. From u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Mon Feb 12 13:24:37 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 13:24:37 GMT From: u9502831@bournemouth.ac.uk (Benjamin Archer) Subject: Re: GPS As a keen sailor I have a lot of experience of Gps. The best place to purchace them is through a chandlers such as Pumpkin who I think operate a mail order service and they are not expensive either. For their address check out a magasine such as Yachting World where you find a large number of advetisors. Ben >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > * ** * To REPLY send to: lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net * ** * -bc [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >I definitely don't want to spend a lot of money! >Thanks, >Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Mon Feb 12 05:27:15 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 05:27:15 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: '97 NAS Defenders to be Available? On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, eec@interaccess.com (Edward Chambers) wrote: >He told me that the Defender 90 was going to be re-introduced in the US in >1997. Someone I spoke to who is very close to LRNA said that a '97 D90 is a strong possibility...no details, though. It seems the new chairman of the parent company (LR) is a great fan of the Defenders and owns a U.S. Spec. model. Eric From ericz@cloud9.net Mon Feb 12 05:27:23 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 05:27:23 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: differential question On Sun, 11 Feb 1996, Deezilbob@aol.com wrote: >I own a 67 diesel 21/4 litre which presently has 7:50 16in. tires along with >a fairey overdrive. The differentials are the 4.71 ratio which I thought I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >slight incline? I am just trying to get the noise level down a little. After >24 yrs. I guess my ears are starting to be bothered.... We fitted our SII LWB Station Wagon (Petrol) with the 3.54 gearing a couple years ago for a long cross-country trip. Flat land cruising was great but as soon as you hit any grade, speed slowed substantially. We found that we were in third gear a lot more often... this was without an overdrive. Eric From Arron Mon Feb 12 12:35:29 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 12:35:29 +0000 From: Arron Subject: Help I know that there is a few ford V powered landrovers out there, and I have a faver to ask. Does any one have a spare carb for a ford 3.0Ltr V6 Essex engine. If someone does please mail me & I'll sort out the arrangements. Thanks in advance. Arron asd1@ukc.ac.uk From Easton Trevor Mon Feb 12 08:48:00 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 96 08:48:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Birmabright Brotherhood-Address needed Mike Hooker's caveat about unwelcome visitors prompts me to suggest that anyone posting their address as a LRO Helper send it to me directly not to the list. Until we come up with a way to reduce the potential for abuse, I will post an updated "Help" list of addresses to those on the "Help" list only. So if you want to know who to call if you're in desperate need out on the road, submit your name as a "Helper" If your already on the help list and have the identity of any "spongers", let the rest of the "helpers" know when you receive your first listing with their addresses. Clinton Coates, I need your Email address and I deleted the digest it was in. Can you please post it to me Thanks Trevor Easton - teaston@dqc2.dofasco.ca From Richard Jones Mon Feb 12 13:35:44 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 13:35:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: What the heck is that Thang??!! Nathan Dunsmore writes: > I am putting the electric back into my Rover and I have found an extra little > doodle which has the Lucas name on it, it is rectangular and sits immediately [...] > Help me before I reach for the hammer. Drive a wooden stake through it :-) __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Feb 12 09:13:33 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 09:13:33 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: LR good/J##P bad In a message dated 96-02-12 07:58:52 EST, you write: >Turns out that "Highlander" is the name of his CJ7! That is what he did >all of his trail rides with! He just purchased the Defender. >Ahhh...I love a happy ending! >Cheers, >Barnett >. HA ha! great, thanks Barnett. Now THAT makes some sense. Maybe I will go on some of those trail rides with the local club afterall. I just gotta keep outta the mud-bogger's way! ('O boy.) John. From David Olley at New Concept Mon Feb 12 14:32:45 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 14:32:45 +0000 From: David Olley at New Concept Subject: Re: Series bench seats/Safety barnett childress wrote: > If I go the inward bench seat route I will be careful with the > installation. Also I will use inertia belts. > I am sure you will realise that the axis of the belt reel in the inertia type must be fitted parallel to the centre line of the vehicle in order for the inertia lock to work, and will fit it that way!! Sorry if I am teaching you how to suck eggs, but the children might be listening. -- David Olley ............................................................................Winchester, England Tel: +44(0)1962-840769 Fax : +44(0)1962-867367 Home Page: http://www.tcp.co.uk/~newconcept ............................................................................ From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Mon Feb 12 08:29:25 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 08:29:25 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Series:Frame Replacement Log, Week 5 Progress Made some slow but steady progress this week. Temps rebounded back up into the 40s *above* zero, for a wierd switch. I took thursday off work, when it was sunny and 45, and got most of the frame painted. The frame stands right now about 3/4 painted, and half of that is completed with 4 coats of rustolium (two primer and two flat back). In addition, I disconnected the steering from the front axle to get that ready to move, and was able to get the steering relay extracted from the old frame. Thanks for all the suggestions on how to do that. I had a bit of a scare, though, then I was cutting through the frame tube that holds the relay, all of the sudden oil started to leak out of the cut. I thought for sure I had gone through the relay wall and destroyed it. I took a short break, gathered my wits, finished cutting it out, and extracted the unit from the frame so I could examine it more closely. Fortunatly, it was mearly oil that had collected in the gap between the relay and the tube, and I didn't damage the relay itself (whew!). I first tried to remove the relay without cutting the frame, but after about a half hour of cursing at it, it was pretty clear that something else was going to be required to free it. To remove the relay, I cut the frame walls on both sides of the crossmember with my handy 4.5" hand grinder and a cutting wheel. Once I was through the tube, I sprayed some liquid wrench into the gap around the relay. Under the relay, I placed my hydraulic jack and put the weight of the truck on the relay, then pounded the crossmember with a 3 pound sledge. It took about 10 minutes with the hammer to get the relay free of the old frame. I could not believe how much crud had collected between the relay and the frame. How did it all that dirt get in there? So I got that cleaned up, and it will likely be the first component to be mounted to the new frame. Goal for week 6 - Transfer the front axle. Wish me luck, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Mon Feb 12 06:40:54 1996 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 1996 06:40:54 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: 2 Doormobile = Dormobile --PART.BOUNDARY.0.19190.hp1.online.apple.com.824136052 Content-ID: <0_19190_824136052@hp1.online.apple.com.10230> Content-type: text/plain John Hess was nice enough to pass me some jpegs from a book he is reading showing a two door Dormobile conversion. Just when I thought I was blazing new territory, someone else has been there and done that. The book is evidently a travel book by Barbara Toy, a woman who toured parts of Africa and the middle East by Land Rover in the mid sixties. The car looks like a '65 or earlier UK spec IIA. It has the same top sides that my 2 door 109 currently has. An interesting thing about the top is that the forward part has a tropical roof sun shield mounted under the roof rack. There is a tarp over the pop-up part of the top in the photos. My guess is that it is to cover the top windows and keep the heat out. There is evidently no evidence indicating whether the conversion was a regular Dormobile factory conversion done to a 2 door or if Barbara took a new 109 into the factory and asked them to put top (and cabinets??) into the car she already owned. Etherway, it looks like a new (to me) kind of Land Rover Dormobile, and I'm just building one after the factory closed. Does anyone know what happened to this car or know of any other two Door Land Rover Dormobiles? 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