From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Dec 31 09:54:14 1995 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 09:54:14 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Headliners Dear fellow addicts, We had this thread about absorbent headliners some days ago, and I hope nobody was disappointed when Craddock could not deliver (although in my experience, they would send you the wrong stuff anyway). However, going thru the December issue of LRO magazine I found an ad Stop Condensation Now! Fit LaSalle Interior Trim. Tel/Fax 01974 831 639 No joke this time! Honest Injun! Doesnt look like it has valves, though... All the best for the coming year Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From lopezba@atnet.at Sun Dec 31 16:09:57 1995 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 16:09:57 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: SI for sale Mark Talbot wrote: >All, >I have come across a nice S1 for sale, early 80 " with small instrument panel. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >50's Land Rover >Any feed back would be helpful from S1 owners in the states Mark - I am not from the states, but if the frame is sound, I would snap it up. Sounds like a steal to me. Good luck Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From Russell Burns Sun Dec 31 7:33:30 1995 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 95 7:33:30 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: 88 RR: Self-emptying washer fluid reservoir On my 91 R-rover the check valve is built into the tee where the supply line fits. I broke mine, and tried to replace it with a standard tee from the hardware store, only to find the headlight washers dribbling on the floor. I believe a new tee is $15.oo from RN. Russ Burns 91 Range Rover 94 D-90 > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > Stefan > From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Dec 31 12:38:41 1995 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 12:38:41 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: looking for 109 frame Hi Rob, and welcome to the world of lro-lite editing. You have just learned the hard way that you cannot forward documents to the list/digest unless you take out the ">" marks first. It will retain only the first and last two lines. This can be a bit annoying, but it does serve a useful purpose with all the redundant materials that are forwarded by those of us who can't find the delete key. One other thing that too many of us "forget" to include when discussing the need for or availability of large, heavy and bulky items is our location. As with real estate, location is an important variable, especially on a worldwide list like this. So give it another shot, and let us know why you are the CarDoctor? Rgds, Walt Swain * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On Sat, 30 Dec 1995, Robert Davis wrote: > >Hi > > I am Rob & new to this digest. However as I have never found any [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > > Regards & thanks > > Rob From CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis) Sun Dec 31 23:55:06 1995 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 23:55:06 From: CarDoctor@gnn.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: Looking for 109 frame Hi I am Rob & new to this digest. My family call me the car doctor because it seem I am aways working to heal some sickly car. They even claim I make house calls, can you believe it? However as I have never found any Land Rover owner who would refuse to help another owner with a problem if he can. I hope some one out there will be able to help me. My father owns a 1968 109 three door land rover which needs a frame badly. (not drivable) This is more then just a project needing parts. I am using this project to get my Father busy after a stroke this year. Money is tight for me and I need to locate & purchase a useable used frame that I can repair for his LR. This will keep him active for at least the coming year. I am hoping to find one here in the US because transport could make it to expensive to obtain. I expect to drive from Chicago to get the frame when I find one. If anyone knows where I could locate a frame please email me with. as much information as you have. I know that new frames are available but they are to expensive at this time. I enjoy reading the news from other users. I have loved british cars for twenty years. I hope to hear from someone in the future. Regards & thanks Rob From LTC Larry Smith Sun Dec 31 19:56:38 1995 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 95 19:56:38 EST (0056Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Corgi 109 Model Robin, Forgot to ask you earlier today (and now also members of the LRO), but I have a Corgi 109 (Model 438?) that I can't seem to track down. Got Dr. Force's Corgi book for Christmas. While reading thru it, I found one of two 109 utes I bought last fall, but not the other. They appear to be the same (#438) 109 green w/white interior and bonnet mounted spare. One has the peened over spun wheel centers. The other has peened over spun wheel centers on the front and pressed on DUALS on the rear. Appears to be "correct" with Corgi tyres, but am not sure. Is this an "after market" addition? Dr. Force states that there are lots of variations, but... The "correct" truck has semismooth tyres (small tread pattern with a large center bar) while the Dually has wide profile tyres with distinct "street" pattern. Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my purchase, but as with all Series Land Rover Owners, just trying to track my vehicle's heritage. Best New Years Wishes to All, Larry From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Sun Dec 31 18:17:34 1995 Date: Sun, 31 Dec 1995 18:17:34 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: WTB fresh Range Rover I wish I could say that I'm personally looking to buy a near-new Range Rover for myself, From Lloyd Allison Mon Jan 1 20:29:09 1996 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 20:29:09 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Rangie fuel tank sender Chris Haslam has wiring diagrams for the '88 RR which may or may not help (available on the web at http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/RR/Haslam/ also with his email address.) Lloyd From Oscar Mon Jan 01 19:48:32 1996 Date: Mon, 01 Jan 1996 19:48:32 +0800 From: Oscar Subject: WTB fresh Range Rover G : Try http://www.Classifieds2000.com/. Appears to be CA based. Saw a couple of Discos and Rangies there last month. Hell, don't know why I bothered looking.....am 15,000(?) miles away. Have a great '96 all!! Oscar >>On Sun, 31 Dec 1995 Granville B. Pool wrote : >>I wish I could say that I'm personally looking to buy a near-new Range Rover.... omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From jpappa01@interserv.com Mon Jan 1 06:51:45 1996 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 06:51:45 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: 1996 News Just scanned the latest LRO Magazine and saw: a- The last of the Classic Rangeys. Only 25 (talk about limited edition) of them total and none for NA. All chromed up and with Oxford Blue paint and special badging. I guess its special because UK price is 40000 quid!!! Does this at least inlcude VAT?? Whoever buys them should most certainly plan on keeping them.... forever! If you could keep one pristine (i.e. - use a not-so-rare one to play in) then over time it will be a piece desired by many collectors. But wow - 40K puts you right at NAS 4.6HSE territory. b- The *new* Discovery XS. Its easy to see the choice of this designator. *XS* truly means excess - as in wretched? I would argue that the body side treatment borders on Jeep Grand Cherokee slabs and is quite hideous. The wider wheelarch molding is the same as we were installing on vehicles last year and LRNA withdrew same due to poor glue performance. I can assume that its availability again means that the glue issue has been resolved? The new *soft* Euro brush guard is shown on it. Similar in material and look to the poly unit on the newbody Range Rover, this I like. An alternative. It would be great if the NAS network had eventual access to both. The price for this XS with airbags and automatic puts it over 41,000 bucks! Perhaps US/CDN owners won't mind so much investing 38500 for an SE7 which in addition to the XS, gives you the 4.0 engine! The XS is fitted with last year's NAS 3.9 V8. c- HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone in the BSROA, everyone on the list, and LROs everywhere! cheerz Jim - just warming up for 1996! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From Chris Haslam Mon Jan 1 11:38:07 1996 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 11:38:07 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Haslam Subject: Self-emptying Washer Reservoir Thanks for the help. I attached a piece of 3/8" hose, plugged at the end, to the "power" washer, and disconnected the pump electrically. This should get me through to spring. (If we haven't entered another ice age!) ...chris haslam Montreal, Canada P.S. Can anyone tell me how I send email to a compuserve address? Pine expects a comma to separate addresses, and CompuServe expects a comma, not a period. From Dixon Kenner Mon Jan 1 14:23:12 1996 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 14:23:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 1996 News On Mon, 1 Jan 1996 jpappa01@interserv.com wrote: > Just scanned the latest LRO Magazine and saw: Read Jim Allen's latest foray into journalism? Seems there is a nasty rumour afoot that the Defender may no continue to be offered on our shores! Such shocking news, LRO must have gotten the article in the wrong issue, saving it to 1996, rather than publishing in Jan 1995. Happy New Year to all... Rgds, From lopezba@atnet.at Mon Jan 1 20:29:38 1996 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 20:29:38 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Series vehicles heaters Peter Barton wrote: >Subject: Re:Give me heat!! >David at: newconcept@tcp.co.uk (David Olley at NEW CONCEPT) wrote: >> Can any of you hardy types running Series >>Landies in cold climates tell me if you have heaters that actually raise the >>temperature in the cab. >Sorry David, can't help I haven't even got one, some blighter took mine >out before I got my SIIa, so I'm still wondering what its like to be snugg >and warm. The nearest I get to heating is the trickle of warm air that comes >through the two holes in the bulkhead where the heater use to be. > So, if anybody out there can think of some form of cheap heat exchange >unit (e.g. car, domestic, or even copper pipe.) That I can stick inside >the cab just as a tempory measure, then please let me know. > Cheers, and a happy new year > Peter Barton (Wimborne Dorset) Our pampered transatlantic fellow madmen seem to have a solution called the Kodiak heater (Kodiak is an island south of Alaska with a very pleasant subtropical climate, if I remember correctly, and the heater provides the same climate inside a LR). I have no idea what it looks like, whether it is still being made or whether you can get it in the UK. However, I will post this to the lro list and see what we come up with. International co-operation! That is what this cold world needs! And a kick in the behind for a certain UK supplier of LR parts who is four weeks late on delivering my brake cylinders, so I can not take my favourite vehicle for a spin thru the 15 cm/6 inches of fresh snow here in Vienna! Hope you have a good year Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 96 Jan EST 1915 Date: 1 Jan 96 15:42:10 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Series vehicles heaters Re: Kodiak Heaters: Near as I know, the original Kodiak has long since passed away. However, the company known as Rovers North in Vermont, U.S.A., makes a similar unit known as the Mansfield Heater for Series vehicles. In inspecting my catalogue, I see that this goes for the astronomical price of around 650 to 700 dollars American. At trhat price, I'd investigate putting a larger, more efficient core in the standard heater.....ow! Not into being burned that bad.... -Alan From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 1 96 Jan EST 1915 Date: 1 Jan 96 15:47:20 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Rust on a camshaft - Cleanup opinions? In the process of my scavenging, I ran myself up a good 2.25L engine that had some difficulties and was put aside with the valve cover off. In the 10 years or so that it sat, crud migrated down the tappet bores and caused the rollers and guides on the front 3 tappets to rust, as well as the lobes on the cam. I can replace the rollers and slides with good units I have, but I'd rather not shoot the cam... any opinions on cleaning it up and how? I was honestly thinking of glass-beading the beast to knock off the rust and letting it go at that....or a bit of crocus cloth applied through the side plates might do also. Obviously, the less disassembly I have to do the happier I am..... aj"Color me too cheap to replace it"R From JEPurnell@aol.com Mon Jan 1 18:38:27 1996 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 18:38:27 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: D90 MPG on trips with 3000lb trailer Hello all, I apologize up front if this note takes up a lot of bandwidth, but I thought some fellow D90 owners would be interested. In the last 2 months I've done a lot of D90-ing, though most of it has been in "regular car" mode. I moved from Los Angeles to Madison, Wisconsin. Then I went out to Vermont and moved my sister back to Milwaukee, Wisconsin. That's a lotsa miles. Being an engineer, of course I wanted to record all the pertinent data, so instead of looking at the sights along the way, I kept track of gas mileage, ha ha. I hope the columns below have kept some kind of order so you can still read them, they are from an Excel spreadsheet. All the road driving, except one leg, was done with a 5X8 Uhaul type box trailer behind me loaded with around 2000lbs of stuff, and the trailer weighed about 750, so about 3000lbs total. The trip out to Vermont the trailer was empty. But, the trip back from Vermont was during the mid-November blizzard that hit the Northeast and Pennsylvania area. Any MPG drop might be accounted for more by conditions, than the loaded trailer: lots of idling, creeping along, and four wheeling through thick snow. Thank god for Land Rover and MudTerrain tyres. There were many 18 wheelers jackknifed and off the road into the ditch, but the trailer and I were fine. Compared to the unladen highway road miles in Los Angeles, I see about a 2 MPG (from 16 to 14) difference from having a loaded trailer on the back end of the Defender. Another difference I've noticed in MPG comes from trips at 60 mph rather than at 75 mph, this can boost mileage about 2 mpg. I guess it's the cost of pushing a barn door down the expressway... While out in Vermont, I drove up to Rovers North. They really treated me great, showed me all around, I spent about 3 hours there. I ended up buying a front wraparound grill guard, a take-off from another defender, and they even put it on for me at no charge. I expected some nominal charge even if it was rather straightforward wrenching. (I brought the tools in case I had to do it...) It really started snowing just as I left RN, and I got a great couple of pictures near their wood sign at their driveway, snow falling, etc. It really is beautiful country up there. I sure hope to try their off road school, they did a great advertising job on me. Anyone out there take their course? So heck, I must have upwards of a whopping 13,000 miles on this 1994, and other than a MIL light coming on for an out-of-range idle control valve, it has been a perfect joy. I drive it everyday, rain or snow, sun or cold. The synthetic oil I put in really made cold starting a lot better. I haven't dropped any oil since putting it in, and that's been over 2000 miles now...so much for Land Rovers being oil leakers...(I know, I know, I am both a neophyte and a fate tempter...) All I have to do now is find a job so I can keep the darn thing... Thanks. John 1994 D90, no rust yet in Wisconsin, but when do I get to take the top off again??!!?? bbbrrrrrrrrr D90 Los Angeles to Madison trip gallons $/gal location mpg 220 13.9 1.65 Baker, Ca 15.8 159 11.4 1.59 NV 13.9 128 11.6 1.42 UT 11.0 122 9.3 1.36 UT 13.1 127 9.2 1.38 UT 13.8 109 8.3 1.38 GJ, CO 13.1 150 10.6 1.59 Vail, CO 14.2 154 9.8 1.25 CO 15.7 164 12.2 1.25 NB 13.4 159 12.2 1.34 NB 13.0 172 13.4 1.38 NB 12.8 177 13.4 1.29 Des Moines, IA 13.2 137 10.6 1.19 Iowa City, IA 12.9 129 8.1 1.27 Mineral Pt, WI 15.9 miles gallons avg $/gal total trip avg MPG 2107 154.0 1.38 13.7 D90 Madison/Vermont/Madison trip gallons $/gal location mpg ****empty trailer... 147 11.6 1.279 Milw, WI 12.6 106 9.0 1.229 Indiana Trnpk 11.8 145 9.6 1.209 Portage, IN 15.1 133 8.7 1.509 Little Falls, NY 15.3 187 12.0 1.509 Clifton Spr, NY 15.6 138 8.6 1.26 Erie, PA 16.0 71 4.9 1.31 Amherst, OH 14.5 115 9.4 1.15 Stoney R, OH 12.2 63.4 4.5 1.41 Guilderland, NY 14.0 133 9.6 1.42 Manchester, VT 13.8 140 8.2 1.31 Burlington, VT 17.2 empty trailer avg MPG = 14.4 ***Loaded Trailer... 174 11.8 1.289 Montgomery, NY 14.7 132 8.5 1.349 Bennington, VT 15.5 109 8.0 1.36 Wilkes Barre, PA 13.7 112 10.6 1.399 Harford, PA 10.6 166 12.9 1.35 Mercer, PA 12.9 159 13.2 1.229 Clyde, OH 12.0 92 7.9 1.199 Montpelier, OH 11.6 121 9.7 1.22 Rolling Pr, IN 12.5 175 13.2 1.29 Shorewood, WI 13.2 loaded trailer avg MPG= 13.0 miles gallons avg $/gal total trip avg MPG 2471 180.3 1.32 13.8 From Simon Barclay Tue Jan 02 10:52:00 1996 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 10:52:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: Range Rover fuel tank sender Hi Andy I can't offer you an answer to your question re the resistance of the sender unit, but I have had a fuel supply problem in a previous RR (which was an '85 carb model). There was an amount of gung built up on the fuel pick up/filter in the tank. Access to this was gained by removing sender unit. I didn't need any special tools or to remove the tank. Just make sure the fuel level is well below the sender unit mounting and tap lightly with a screw driver to unlock the three tabs and pull it off. Installation is just the reverse. Hope this helps... Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Jan 01 17:55:23 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 95 17:55:23 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Address needed for Brad Blevins Can someone email me Brad Blevins (ex editor of AW) email address please TU -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Jan 01 17:56:22 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 95 17:56:22 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: where is Jimmy Patrick? Where are you Jimmy? -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Tue Jan 2 12:37:27 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 12:37:27 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: wrenches METRINCH in Australia are made in USA. I bought a set of spanners recently (socket sets are also made/sold) at an end of year sale for a pretty good price, and have since used them in the replacement of clutch master and slave cylinders on my 110. My conclusions are that they are a useful addition to a toolbox but can't completely replace other spanners. They are also useful for any rounded off nuts 'cause they act on the flats of the nuts. My 110 has the usual plethora of imperial and metric nuts, so the METRINCH set has been good for nuts which have easy access, but for some nuts which have bad access (the ones where you get 1/12 turn at a time by flipping the open ender) the inherent free play in the METRINCH spanners makes them inferior to my SIDCHROME AF and metric spanners. In the clutch cyl job there were nuts which the METRINCH couldn't do. James Carley Sydney, Australia 85 110, now carrying 3 spanner sets, plus SIDCHROME socket set and more. From Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com> 01 96 Jan EST 1921 Date: 01 Jan 96 21:00:16 EST From: Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com> Subject: Zipp"d LRO Digest G'day all. I'm mostly a lurker but also a hardcore Land Rover addict who faithfully downloads all of the daily lisings for reading whenever I get the time. My fingernails are not something my wife takes pride in showing off to her friends (honey I rebuilt the fuel pump after you went to bed last night.) Anyway I also happen to be a pilot in the U. S. Navy and as such will be leaving on deployment at the end of January. This means that I will not only be deprived of driving my Rover until August but I cannot even live vicariously through you all since I can't get my E-mail. Is there anyone out there willing to Zip and mail me the Daily Digest once or twice per month for the fee of maybe a box of disks and a case of lets say Sam Adams or Guiness? Thanks Steve Rochna soon to be "haze grey under way" (nobody ever said you had to be smart to fly) From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Tue Jan 2 14:08:49 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 14:08:49 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: New and Old Rovers In Australia (and UK from what I gather) parts backup for Rovers of all ages is excellent. Some prices are a bit ridiculous but most imported cars have this problem. I live and work ~10 km from nearest LR dealer (New Rowley Motors, Sydney, Free Plug). Within 2 to 24 hrs (depending on availability) parts get delivered to my door (the delivery is free). My only complaint is that when I bought my 2nd hand 110 I asked them about a parts manual and was told that they weren't avail. After reading UK magazines I faxed an advertiser in UK and got one. It makes obtaining parts so much easier. The parts manual has a LR part number itself but I've never tried out the dealer response to this part number. For Sydney and Aust readers, I've also found Range Parts good, generally cheaper than dealer, but delivery is usually 24 - 48 hrs and ~$10 through the postal service (or a 2 hour round drive for me). James Carley '85 110 3.9D From andy@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Andy Graham) Sun Jan 01 21:02:45 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Jan 95 21:02:45 -0500 From: andy@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Andy Graham) Subject: new member to the net Hello fellow L-R owners! My name is Andy Graham and I have been associated with LandRovers since the seventies when I purchased a '71 S2a 88".I now have a '59 S2 109"truck cab. I am also a Land Rover toy and memorabilia collecting fanatic, along with my buddy Robin Craig, who is currently my email tutuor!! oops I cant spell! I welcome any chat about toys and how I can improve my sense of direction as I was the runner up to Dixon for the Lug Nut award this year here in OVLR. So long for the minute, Andy -- Andy Graham, andy@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land RoverFrom Ray Harder Tue Jan 2 06:50:10 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 06:50:10 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: Headliners On Sun, 31 Dec 1995 lopezba@atnet.at wrote: > However, going thru the December issue of LRO magazine I found an ad > (on page 169) saying: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > LaSalle Interior Trim. > Tel/Fax 01974 831 639 man, i wanted some of those plastic, molded interior trim pieces about a year ago (and choice of color). they said delivery to the states just wasn't cost feasable. it seems to me that some enterprising platic-type could reverse-engineer some molds and sell 20-30 sets... From Ray Harder Tue Jan 2 06:43:51 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 06:43:51 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: ROAV sun visors On Sat, 30 Dec 1995 lopezba@atnet.at wrote: > Subject: Re: ROAV sun visors > David Olley wrote about sun visors: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > Peter Hirsch > SI 107in S/W ivory and limestone -- hmmm. the dupont limestone paint i use always seems a tad more yellow than what i was painting. i just assumed it was because the old paint was -- well old, and bleached, faded and whatever happens to paint. but ivory -- that makes me think that maybe my roof and rims were actually ivory. i use limestone because that is what some old atlantic british newsletter said was proper. they sold the dupont paint and i managed to get the numbers out of the dupont computer, buy it locally, save a few pennies. ray harder From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 2 8:03:15 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 8:03:15 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Soft top vs. hard top, more. John Askes; Is a hard top on a D90 that much quieter than a soft top? I have driven a 94 with the Tickford top, a 95 with the Bestop, and a 95 with the hard top. The Tickford top was the loudest, probably due to the fact that it is not as snug fitting as the Best top. Definitely a lot more flapping. I drive 70 miles a day on the highway. My 95 D90 came with the Bestop. I have no complaints and don't feel the need for the hard top. It's not that noisy and I still have plenty of heat, (winters here in Mass.). The only reason I would think of getting the hard top would be if you are worried about security. Another option would be to convert your 94 to the bestop. It's easy to do, they just replace the snaps with the rail system. I don't know if it's true but I've heard that installation and removal of the hardtop can be a pain. On the subject of 95 (plushmobile?) changes; 1- The door checks are nice. They keep the doors open even if you get out on a sloping hill Etc. 2- The map pockets, to be honest I have never used them, yet. 3- The interior door handle recesses are larger and don't pinch your hand everytime you lift the handle. 4- The stereo is set up for a plug in multidisc CD and a subwoofer. I have seen them, heard them, and plan to get them. They don't take up any interior room and I don't think they affect the off-roadability! I listen to music everyday when on the highway, though I never seem to turn on the stereo while off road? 5- Plastic checks on the back of the seats prevent the support bar from rubbing a hole in the back of the seats. 6- Sliding door top windows and canvas top standard with better top system (no snaps to rust or pull loose from the body). 7- Rear door lock standard. Most of the changes are minor but a few of the changes they made got rid of some of the complaints I've heard from some previous owners. Does LR listen to there customers? Good luck Barnett 95 D90. From ARBLOCKER@aol.com Mon Jan 1 19:00:52 1996 Date: Mon, 1 Jan 1996 19:00:52 -0500 From: ARBLOCKER@aol.com Subject: Fwd: discovery conversions --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: discovery conversions From Danny Phillips Tue Jan 2 13:18:48 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 13:18:48 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: a hole Dear all, hope you all had a great holiday, i did until i cleaned (yes cleaned) our discovery. i have found a hole in the wing, passenger in the uk and oz (drivers side in the countries that drive on the wrong side of the road :-)). i would say that i suspect it was caused by a closed encounter with a van at some trffic lights, as it is very difficult to see, thin and about 1" long. i don't think is is corrosion of any kind as the paint around it is not bubbling etc. i am hoping it is just where the thin ally has been scrapped over by the van against the edge of the splash guard. i realise that you chaps would have to see it to be sure, but would this sound like a reasonable guess? my question is can i just clean up the inside of the wing (its on the flat section of the wing just before it folds under). so can i clean the inside, put some duck tape on the edge of the splash guard, to leston the rubbing effect, and then apply filler from the inside and smooth on the outside and paint? or am i going to have this looked at professionally. this is really bugging me now. cheers danny. From Danny Phillips Tue Jan 2 13:22:51 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 13:22:51 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: cleaning car dear all, just to waste a bit more band width, i should also tell you about my bonnet, it only had one shiny bit that was over the turbo, the rest had dulled down, I used a polish called MER (made in germany i think) and although it has been wet since i polihed the car i think two applications have sorted out the paint or at least started. i was relictant to use tcut, a friend used it on his escort and cut through to the undercoat. cheers danny. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 2 07:37:13 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 07:37:13 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: 25% tarriff Sandy Grice writes: snip > You can thank Uncle Sam and Detroit lobbyists for that price tag. The > Defender as well as all off-shore 2 door sport-utes pay a 25% tarriff. For > that reason, Rover's profit margin is *very* slim on the D-90, the prime > reason, I think, why it is being withdrawn. I was mulling that over just this weekend. Sounds like it's time to start our own lobbying. I would think the current congress would be *very* receptive to the idea of letting the market decide which two door SUV's sell well, without adding a monetary disincentive to the equation. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Andrew A. Dallas" Tue Jan 2 08:49:26 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 08:49:26 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: re:Soft top vs. hard top, more. >John Askes; >I drive 70 miles a day on the highway. My 95 D90 came with the Bestop. I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >reason I would think of getting the hard top would be if you are worried >about security. I have a 1995 D90 with the full hard top installed. I'm looking forward to the soft top in spring for topless expeditions. I'm impressed with how much quieter the D90 is than Jeeps with hard tops. That's one of the reasons I adopted my D90. You mention that you have plenty of heat. Coming from a very cushy and warm volvo, I'm not overly impressed with the heating system of the D90. I do have the AC option which, I'm beginning to suspect, significantly reduces the volume of air the heating system can move. Do you have the AC option? Has any one else out there installed the AC option after-the-fact and noticed a significant reduction in heating capacity? -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135 (617) 782-9829 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From jim@kidd.com (jnk) Tue Jan 2 08:47:56 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 08:47:56 -0400 From: jim@kidd.com (jnk) Subject: Hydraulic winch Hello, Has anyone had experience with the Land Rover hydraulic winch? Did LR manufacture the winch or was it someone else? Are parts available in the States or England? Jim Karantinos From ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu Tue Jan 2 09:22:35 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:22:35 -0800 (PST) From: ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu Subject: What the?! I'm not sure why my messages aren't being posted to the digest - so this is *another* test... Frank - so much to say - noone to listen... From Ross Leidy Tue Jan 02 09:43:18 1996 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 96 09:43:18 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: re:Soft top vs. hard top, more. On 01/02/96 at 08:49 AM, "Andrew A. Dallas" penned: >You mention that you have plenty of heat. Coming from a very cushy >and warm volvo, I'm not overly impressed with the heating system of >the D90. I do have the AC option which, I'm beginning to suspect, >significantly reduces the volume of air the heating system can move. >Do you have the AC option? Has any one else out there installed the >AC option after-the-fact and noticed a significant reduction in >heating capacity? >-AD I can speak to this directly. I got my D90 in October, but the AC wasn't installed until November. The driver-side floor vent for the heater is unobstructed, but the passenger-side vent is re-routed to make room for the AC. It's routed back toward the passenger and raised some. My wife has noticed a BIG reduction in the amount of heat on that side. Anyone else experienced this? _____________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 From "John C. White, III" Tue Jan 2 07:01:10 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 07:01:10 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: What the?! Well, it's coming through in realtime anyway. Cheers! John At 09:22 02.01.96 -0800, ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >I'm not sure why my messages aren't being posted to the digest - so this [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >Frank - >so much to say - noone to listen... From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Tue Jan 2 10:06:55 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:06:55 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Corgi Land Rovers Dear All, An email a day or two ago asked about the Land Rover 438 Corgi model. The model did not come from the facory with different wheels front and back. The wheels could be turned looking units, or plastic units with silver plated rims. The dual wheel option is a PO thing. The model could be a bunch of colors, and even the rescue and wrecker truck models unsed the basic 438. See, even small Rovers are cool. Mike Smith, ECR From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 2 10:06:36 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 10:06:36 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Soft top vs. hard top, more. Andrew, No I don't have AC. When the nice weather is here I run my D90 with the bimini top all season. Barnett. From "Andrew A. Dallas" Tue Jan 2 10:17:15 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:17:15 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: re:Soft top vs. hard top, more. >I can speak to this directly. I got my D90 in October, but the AC wasn't >installed until November. The driver-side floor vent for the heater is [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >has noticed a BIG reduction in the amount of heat on that side. Anyone >else experienced this? That's what I expected. The vent aperatures are very small. I also noticed that the storage space above the AC unit gets very warm. I suspect that there's either a leak behind the AC unit or that the heating ducts are too small to allow the heater blower to move the expected volume of air, thus causing back-pressure. Unfortunately the AC unit itself won't blow warm air. Perhaps increasing the number of aperatures to the duct itself would improve the system. -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135 (617) 782-9829 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 2 10:08:42 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:08:42 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Diesel Trivia GM did more to make diesels unappealing to the masses than any other mfg. I learned that back when I worked in the shop at a Chevy dealer. Yep, GM produced a fine line of boat anchors. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Chris Haslam Tue Jan 2 11:15:00 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:15:00 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Haslam Subject: RR Fuel tank sender I have been silent because I'm not sure that the 88 RR has the same arrangement as other years. I suspect the problem is mechanical, not electrical, i.e. gunk around the sender unit. But I have one comment: on many vehicles, the resistance of the wire from the sender unit to the gauge is critical (within a few ohms.) I don't know what this value is for a RR. On some cars, this wire is not the same metal and thickness as other wires. Also, on a Rover SD1, the sender unit gets "lazy". There is a float on a pivot. The pivot wears, so the float arm sticks (or something.) If someone knows the resistance of this wire, please advise. I'll add it to my schematics. Chris Haslam Montreal, Canada 88 RR 80 SD1 From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 2 10:25:13 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:25:13 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: owners in Japan I seem to recall a LR owner in Japan on this list. If you indeed exist, would you please e-mail me? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "DAVE MCKAIN" Tue Jan 2 11:40:16 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:40:16 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Series Manifold Question I have been looking over a 1963 ex-Canadian military Land Rover that I purchased a month ago and came upon what I consider to be an oddity. On early series vehicles, the exhaust pipe leaves the manifold at a 90 degree angle to the engine and passed through the wing while on later models, the exhaust pipe went straight down from the manifold. For some reason, the exhaust on this LR leaves at a 45% angle in an upwards direction and passes through the wing like an earlier vehicle. The manifold is a three bolt syle and looks like it accepts a later type dougnut. Does anyone have any comments on this setup? I can replace the manifold with a later type but would like to maintain originality on this rover if I can. If anyone needs parts for Series Land Rovers I am parting out three and have a lot of spares. Feel free to contact me. David McKain 1972 SIII SWB (parting) 1970 SIIA SWB (parting) 1969 SIIA SWB (parting) 1963 SIIA Ex-Canadian Mil SWB 1963 SIIA SWB mckain@cemr.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 2 11:28:59 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:28:59 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Series vehicles heaters On Mon, 1 Jan 1996 lopezba@atnet.at wrote: > Our pampered transatlantic fellow madmen seem to have a solution called > the Kodiak heater (Kodiak is an island south of Alaska with a very pleasant > subtropical climate, if I remember correctly, and the heater provides the > same climate inside a LR). I have no idea what it looks like, whether it > is still being made or whether you can get it in the UK. No longer made to my knowledge. On IIA vehicles as an option. Very common in Canadian Land Rovers, uncommon on US Land Rovers. Came in at least three varients. Most common that I have seen is the large unit that sits on the RHS bulkhead, integral GM heater core and blower motor. There was another where the motor was on the outside and the heater core attached to the centre of the bulkhead on the inside. Long ductwork from the motor to the heater. The easiest way to get more heat (besides cleaning out the pipes/ hoses and heater core) is to take the pathetic Smiths heater that mounts outside, get a second, use the pieces and make one that has two cores and put back in. Even simplier is to get the round Smiths heater found on Series Ones that mounted in the centre of the bulkhead inside the vehicle and put it in as a second heater. The RN Mansfield heater is another option, but the price is so dear that you would be far better served making your own heater out of scrap tin, a big core and a motor out of some wrecked car. > International co-operation! That is what this cold world needs! Right about now, my books define international co-operation as an endeavour where other countries voluntarily accept our quota of cold and snow... :-) We'd be happy to share. > And a kick in the behind for a certain UK supplier of LR parts who is four > weeks late on delivering my brake cylinders, so I can not take my favourite > vehicle for a spin thru the 15 cm/6 inches of fresh snow here in Vienna! Which one? :-) Rgds, From 02 96 Jan EST 1911 Date: 02 Jan 96 11:51:53 EST From: Subject: Series 1 for sale Mark Talbot wrote: >All, >I have come across a nice S1 for sale, early 80 " with small instrument panel. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >50's Land Rover >Any feed back would be helpful from S1 owners in the states Mark I have owned a S1 now for nearly 10 years and I could give you a list a mile long ( with receipts) as to why you should not buy this vehicle. My bank manager and very understanding wife will both vouch for this! Since owning this vehicle I have met a whole new breed of people, for the most part they are a friendly bunch, one in particular used to drive a shortened 107" to 86" (god knows why) This once proud vehicle is now sadly rotting in his back garden, while he drools over his NWCLL, which stands for Nice Warm Cosy Little Lorry. Which if spelt backwards is Llcwn, which could be Welsh for a 101"GS, since that's where he spends most of his spare time.( in the 101, in Wales) I have heard a rumour that he will one day restore this vehicle and is therefor reluctant to part with any or all it. I only hope his devoted and long suffering wife doesn't get wind of this rumour. It is for this reason that I should warn you, to some women any LR can be the bane of their lives, but to others (like my wife) the S1 is a fashion accessory and they get really grumpy when they are not working, which can be quite often. So unless you are prepared to fork out loadsa'dosh and never get to drive it, be warned !! Happy New Year to all Especially all S1 owners (drivers) with icicles hanging from the roof R 1 3 H +--|--| FWD | 2 4 L '55 Series One Glenn From 02 96 Jan EST 1911 Date: 02 Jan 96 11:51:57 EST From: Subject: where is he know Robin Craig writes >Where are you Jimmy? He has gone to ground, but can be dug out at Jimmyp@netcom.com Don't mention the 1996 Colour calendar! Glenn From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 2 11:57:04 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:57:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Series Manifold Question On Tue, 2 Jan 1996, DAVE MCKAIN wrote: > I have been looking over a 1963 ex-Canadian military Land Rover that A Canadian 1963 ex-military LR. Canada never used Land Rovers though we tested them (besides the three armoured ones currently in Bosnia). The photo under Readers Rovers in the December LROI is fascinating. A Series One modified to look like a Canadian Army Land Rover. Someone must have the nationality wrong... > manifold. For some reason, the exhaust on this LR leaves at a 45% > angle in an upwards direction and passes through the wing like an > earlier vehicle. Seen them a number of times, Even had one before I threw it out (not worth repairing, cracked) > setup? I can replace the manifold with a later type but would like to > maintain originality on this rover if I can. Finding the replacement would be the problem... Rgds, From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Jan 2 09:04:14 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:04:14 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: New Dormobile cabinets I have found a company willing to to reproduce the tall wardrobe cabinet of a Dormobile. This is a tall metal cabinet with a fold up seat and single front door. At this time, I expect to have cabinets made sometime in Feb. I will be lending the company my Dormobile wardrobe cabinet to use as a model. To keep costs as low as possible, the cabinets will be unpainted (silver Hammerite paint is correct), and the door & seat will be unmounted. It will not include hinges or latches (more on these parts at the end of this document). I have had three versions of the cabinet estimated and will take orders for all three versions. Because of the costs involved, I would like full payment before the cabinets are constructed. There are side shelf height differences between the two door and four door series Land Rovers. Please specify if the cabinet is going into a two or four door Land Rover. The cabinets should fit series II, IIA and III land Rovers. If you wish to put one of these cabinets in a series I or a Defender, please let me know and I will request additional measurments. Here are the versions I have estimated: 1. reproduction - US$650 This will be sheet steel using the same construction as the original(angle steel external frame). This includes the welded on external side shelf for a water bottle, door (unmounted), swing up seat (unmounted) without the tubuler swing down feet or with rectangular (non-original) swing down feet (they can't make the correct swing down feet). To finish this cabinet, you will need to paint it silver Hammerite, add hinges and latches, door mirror, wood spacers for the water bottles and webbing for mounting the water bottles (see end of this message). 2. Economy cabinet - US$550 This is same as above except that there is no external angle steel frame. The dimensions will be identical to the stock Dormobile wardrobe cabinet but someone familure with Dormobiles will be able to tell that the cabinet is not original. You can order this one with ot without the external water bottle shelf. 3. Companion cabinet - US$575 This is the one I'm having made for myself since i already have a wardrobe cabinet. This cabinet will have the same dimesions as the original wardrobe cabinet. It will use the economy style construction. Instead of a partial solid front with a single door and a swing up seat, the front of this cabinet will have double swinging doors covering the entire front. It will come with three shelves (the original has no shelves). I plan to mount this companion cabinet in my Project twoDoorMobile oposit the stock wardrobe to provide additional storrage. This might be a good cabinet for people wanting to fix up a Land Rover for camping. Spice rack I have the original rack that fits in the upper left rear corner of the Dormobile. I am thinking of having a mirror image rack made up for the right side. If anyone is interested in a reproduction of this rack, ether right or left, contact me and I will get an estimate. Wardrobe hardware The hinges and latches that came on the Dormobile cabinets seem to be no longer available. However, i think sutable substitutes can be made from currently axailable hinges by filing brass hinges and having them chromed. If you order a cabinet and want to try to reproduce the hardware, I will provide pictures and dimensions. If you want to add the mirror that comes on the inside of the cabinet door, i will provide dimensions and mounting location. If you wish to mount the straps and wood spacers for the water bottle mounting, I will be happy to provide specs. TeriAnn "Celebrating my tenth year on the Usenet/Internet" twakeman@apple.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Jan 2 09:06:01 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 09:06:01 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: New Dormobile roof vents I have found someone to reproduce the roof vent lid from a Dormobile top. The vent lids will be fiberglass duplicates of a fiberglass roof vent that came as a spare on a '64 Dormobile. This spare roof vent lid is being used to create the mold for the duplicates. If anyone would like a new or spare roof vent lid (they are the highest point on a Dormobile roof and most apt to be damaged from low hanging obsticals) Please contact me (twakeman@apple.com). At this time I am only planning one run and expect to have them built around the end of January. The vent lids will cost US$100 each plus packaging and shipping costs. (most of the cost is labour for hand laying the fiberglass). The lids will be unpainted and without mounting holes. If you want to get in on this one time build, please contact me. TeriAnn "Celebrating my tenth year on the Usenet/Internet" twakeman@apple.com From Duncan Brown Tue Jan 02 12:34:06 1996 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 12:34:06 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Discovery conversions > Last question for you would be regarding ABS brakes on Disco's. During > severe four-wheel driving and at critical times they are very unresponsive [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > cure for this problem or are you on your own in the back country? Please let > me know if there is any advice or suggestions out there from anyone. My series II's brakes get like this when severely doused or filled with mud. But they are drum brakes; I though disc brakes self-cleaned a lot quicker. Is there any relationship between what kind of muck you've just driven through, and brake performance? (I know, sounds like a stupidly obvious question, but just wanted to rule it out!) Duncan From Treit Le 2 96 Jan 1912 Date: 2 Jan 96 12:03:50 From: Treit Le Subject: Sunday New York Times 12/31/95 This is an excerpt from the Automobile section of the NYT. One article on driving schools with one paragraph on Rovers North. One big article on the Land Rover Experience factory school in Solihull. Plus 3 pictures of a 4.0SE in action, including one going down some steep steps. The "I" in the story is the writer, not me. ``This is not so tough,'' I was thinking to myself with the cockiness that seizes so many drivers behind the wheels of vehicles unfettered by the bounds of pavement. No doubt about it: learning the basics of off-road driving at the Land Rover Experience, a training program here in central England operated by the maker of four-wheel-drive vehicles, was not for wimps. But I had made it up and down frighteningly steep grades. I had managed to maintain control in a sea of mud. My pulse rate had barely quickened as I steered along a ramp that tilted my Land Rover Defender sideways at an angle normally associated with Evel Knievel. The three feet of water along the ``jungle track'' did not faze me. Then my instructor, Steve Vaughan, a former Royal Air Force pilot, told me to have a go at driving up a rain-slick 10-foot hill and making a sharp left at the top to avoid running straight into the woods. The maneuver would require giving the vehicle enough gas to make the hill, but not so much that a quick turn would be impossible. I shifted into gear, accelerated smoothly up the incline, began inching the wheel around - and was met with the ignominious sound of spinning wheels. ``You'll have to go back down,'' Steve said with no hint of disgust in his voice. ``It's a shame, though, because you'll probably have to take out that little tree down there.'' ........... From Duncan Brown Tue Jan 02 12:52:15 1996 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 12:52:15 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Series Manifold Question Dave, > oddity. On early series vehicles, the exhaust pipe leaves the manifold at a > 90 degree angle to the engine and passed through the wing while That's Series I > on later models, the exhaust pipe went straight down from the That's Series IIA and beyond. > manifold. For some reason, the exhaust on this LR leaves at a 45% > angle in an upwards direction and passes through the wing like an [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > setup? I can replace the manifold with a later type but would like to > maintain originality on this rover if I can. That's Series II. Mine had one like that until the manifold cracked and the "up-pipe" (!) corroded away. I couldn't find replacements for either, so I went ahead and converted to the IIA style, which is a bolt on replacement (but leaves this mysterious hole in my fender!) The original Series II parts are out there, but hard to find and I drive my car every day so I couldn't afford to be hung up waiting to try and find them... Duncan From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Jan 02 10:14:31 1996 Date: Tue, 02 Jan 1996 10:14:31 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: owners in Japan Tom Rowe writes: >I seem to recall a LR owner in Japan on this list. If you indeed >exist, would you please e-mail me? Tom, You must be thinking of Shunichi Nishi. He has a WWW page of his Club's activities in Japan, unfortunately he unsubscribed from the list. His next to last message was: Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 07:23:49 +0900 From: gnome@st.rim.or.jp (Shunichi Nishi) Subject: Renewal my Rover page Hi all !! I come back after a long time. My private Rover Page : "Happy LANDY" renew today. URL : http://www.st.rim.or.jp/~gnome/rover.html Latest up to date 19/10/'95 Happiest of New Year!! ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From Treit Le 2 96 Jan 1912 Date: 2 Jan 96 12:59:14 From: Treit Le Subject: Where are all the Jeeps hiding? When skiing this Saturday at Campgaw in Mahwah, NJ, a ridiculously small ski "hill" 20 minutes from NY. I parked my RR and immediately another RR pulled in next to me. Looking directly forward from my windshield I saw a Disco, then a green Defender SW, and a black RR. I had a good spot and didn't have to walk more than 300 feet to the slopes, but passed a yellow Defender, a salt crusted Series (?, '73 w/ Villanova sticker) and a RR. One Hummer too. This was in a parking lot with about 200 vehicles. Only saw 3 Jeep GC's.I think that the tide has turned. PS, the Hummer was the only one with a winch. From maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Tue Jan 2 10:52:04 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 10:52:04 -0800 From: maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 2 96 Jan EST 1913 Date: 2 Jan 96 13:48:12 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Smiths Heater needed for experimentation, and info from UK needed All right, all right all RIIIIGHT!!! Enough with the whining about heaters.....8*) My heavens, you'd think it was cold outside or something... It's time for Al "The mad toolman" Richer to go to work. ANybody in the Boston area got a Smiths I can lay my hands on? I've some ideas about fitting the ugly little monster with an oversized core, but I need a body to dissect. If anybody's got one they pulled out they'd be willing to donate to further the cause of warm Rovers, email me. I do need the whole bit, though....as I think an oversized blower might be part of the package. As part of this, does anybody from the UK have 2 minutes to tell me the relevant Japanese imports available in the UK? Seems like these would be a good starting ground as a core donor for the heater experiments... aj"Hack Artists R Us"r From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Tue Jan 2 11:05:23 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 11:05:23 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Bosnia LR's Did anyone else see a Reuters photo of U.S. Army engineers doing their Sava River bridge thing with a Chinook (CH-46) overhead? There are two vehicles parked on the opposite bank, one obviously a Range Rover, and the other I think a 110? It was in my Saturday newspaper. Also of interest in the Saturday San Diego Union Tribune was the feature article of the Wheels section, a tribute to the D90, "end of the line for 'sport coupe of sport utes.'" -Matt From ASFCO@aol.com Tue Jan 2 13:10:24 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 13:10:24 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: New Manual for sale I have a new Haynes series ll lla & lll owners workshop manual for sale....$ 20.00 e-mail me for the address. Happy, Healthy New Year to all... Cheers, Steve Bradke 72 s lll 88 ASFCO@aol.com From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Tue Jan 2 15:13:14 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 15:13:14 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: camaraderie etc. etc. OK, I can be persuaded to a truce.... No more jokes about the cell-phone or disco-players, if they don't insist on naming their cars as "Beluga-black", "Swiss-chocolate white", or "Dollar-bill green" Jan '63 109+ , kinda-blue From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 2 15:09:01 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 15:09:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Smiths Heater needed for experimentation, and info from UK needed On 2 Jan 1996, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > As part of this, does anybody from the UK have 2 minutes to tell me the > relevant Japanese imports available in the UK? Seems like these would be a > good starting ground as a core donor for the heater experiments... Why Japanese? If anything, Yank tanks like the Buick are renowned for their ability to generate tons of heat fast. It is one thing that American manufacturers have managed well. (Their A/C systems are pretty impressive too...) > aj"Hack Artists R Us"r You're a good candidate to make a flip top front end... From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 2 20:18:10 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 96 20:18:10 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: 1953 Series 1 For sale All, I reported that there was a S1 for sale here in NH. I have decided to pass it over, in favour of a 91 RR. I know, one extreme to another, but what the heck. Anyway if there are any interested parties looking for a S1, original condition, rebuild brakes, new 16" wheels, new tank, tons of new stuff. Needs starter fixed, rebuilt or replaced, and some wiring done. The guy is asking $2500. However, an offer of $2000 should be enough. E-mail me and I will pass on the details. Mark From allen@dsr.com (David Allen) Tue Jan 2 13:37:13 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 13:37:13 -0800 From: allen@dsr.com (David Allen) Subject: Re: D90 MPG on trips with 3000lb trailer John: I took 2 days worth of instruction from Rovers North last October and was very pleased with the training. I used a Red D90 that they had, and even got some training on various types of winching. One real benefit to training in Vermont is that they have access to some of the gooiest mud perhaps in the entire country. This made hill climbing especially challenging. ========================================================================== David Allen 619.695.8220 x-441 (voice) Digital Systems Research, Inc. 619.695.2625 (fax) 10085 Scripps Ranch Ct. allen@dsr.com (email) San Diego, CA 92131-1271 72002,1601 (compuserve) From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Tue Jan 2 18:08:05 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 18:08:05 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: LRW Got an advance copy of of February's Land Rover World today. Check out pages 44 through 47 for scenes from the Mid-Atlantic Land Rover Rally. (...and if you look real close in the circular photo behind Dennis Perzynski, you can see Dave Bobeck.) It seems that my internet service provider, tired of being part of the information superhighway, has turned into a one way street. For some reason that the techies have yet to figure out (or even attempt to figure out, I gather), I can upload messages, but can't download anything. ("The part we need wiil be in tomorrow. We tried rebooting the servers." Huh?) Apparently the entire net is affected. Who knowns when this jack-leg outfit will get is collective ass in gear? Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From John Brabyn Tue Jan 2 15:14:06 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 15:14:06 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Where are all the Jeeps hiding? This reminds me of a recent experience at our local supermarket when I pulled in and parked my white RR in between two other white RR's. I wished I'd had my camera to get the hat trick! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR On 2 Jan 1996, Treit Le wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > When skiing this Saturday at Campgaw in Mahwah, NJ, a ridiculously small ski [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > has turned. > PS, the Hummer was the only one with a winch. From Simon Barclay Wed Jan 03 11:57:00 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 11:57:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Looking for a book! Has any one out there heard of (or got a copy of) a book called "The Early Years". I'm told it's by a guy called Michael Hutchins(?) (not the musician). It covers early Series 1's and details the differences/features introduced during this time. Has lots of detailed hand drawn diagrams. I don't know who published it, if it is still in print, or the IBSN (if it has one). If anyone can help please e-mail me direct. Thanks in advance. Simon Barclay Sydney Australia E-mail: sbar@jna.com.au '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From Lorri Paustian Tue Jan 2 19:20:27 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 19:20:27 -0600 (CST) From: Lorri Paustian Subject: Kodiak Heaters >From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus >Date: 1 Jan 96 15:42:10 EST >Subject: Re: Series vehicles heaters >Re: Kodiak Heaters: >Near as I know, the original Kodiak has long since passed away. However, the >company known as Rovers North in Vermont, U.S.A., makes a similar unit known as >the Mansfield Heater for Series vehicles. >In inspecting my catalogue, I see that this goes for the astronomical price of >around 650 to 700 dollars American. At trhat price, I'd investigate putting a >larger, more efficient core in the standard heater.....ow! >Not into being burned that bad.... -Alan There's a guy in our club, Flatland Rover Society, that put in an old Peterbuilt heater into his Series. He says it drives him out with the heat. I don't think the old Series have enough core area in the standard pancake heaters to be able to make them any more efficient. As this is my first attempt at sending an E-mail to LRO Digest (just been lurking for two or three months), hope I did this right. Lorri Paustian '95 Conistan Green Discovery '95 Arles Blue D90 Hard Top (on order) From Landy88@aol.com Tue Jan 2 20:46:10 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 20:46:10 -0500 From: Landy88@aol.com Subject: Brilliant Design of Series Rovers Today, when completing my annual brake work (pronounced master cylinder replacement), I learned a few more design features in the Series III (and earlier trucks). My respect for the Land Rover continues to grow. First, the master cylinder itself is a masterpiece. Just leave the brake lines open and the device will self bleed. Which brings us to the next point....the front wings..... B: The front wings are marvelous.......Unlike other pseudo-sport-utes, the wings on the LR are designed to accomodate the owner (pronounced mechanic...as others have noticed....Rover dealers are not geared for Series owners). While working, the wing seconds as a tool holder. I think it was also designed with Massachusetts winters in mind. The snow makes a great fender pad, no scratching going on there. Also, it is great for holding flashlights, handy with master cylinder work....points right at the spot ( and if you are the nervous type, there is no waiting to see how much paint you took off with the Castrol LMA). Three....the design also allow for lots of snow to build up on the bonnet and fall onto the radiator cowl. This is a good spot to place any spanners you need. As your fingers near numbness, it makes it much easier to find your tools...the metal is much colder than the plastic of your torch. I only look forward to my engine work over the next couple of weeks. Thanks to all those who helped steer me in the right direction on that tapping. But then again, how many new sport-utes come with their own metronome? Happy Trails!! ****************************************************************************** ******************************************************* Landy88 Charles Cooper '72 Series III 88 PO Box 182 '68 Series IIA 88 Lee MA 01238 From "Andrew A. Dallas" Tue Jan 2 21:08:40 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 21:08:40 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Humid Days of Winter Working on my second week as a Defender 90 owner, I've read the manual cover to cover. I recall now a page which mentiones that it's important to clear snow off the ventilation grills on the hood. Tonight is a beautifully snowy evening in Boston. The snow is very light and fluffy. I was very excited to go on my first 4WD ride in the snow so I quickly cleared the snow from my windscreen and hopped in. When I saw that the mperature was climbing, I cranked the heater to maximum and enjoyed about a minute of warm air. I then heard a sort of "foop" noise which I now believe was the fan sucking in the snow from my hood. The cabin got pleasantly humid and warm which instantly fogged all of the windows. I suppose I deserve a "told you so" from the authors of the manual. Moral: Clean your hood vents unless you want to fly by instruments alone. -AD ********************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Independent Software Engineer Full Spectrum Software 360 Market Street #18, Brighton, MA 02135, (617) 782-9829 http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ adallas@tiac.net ********************************************************* From JEPurnell@aol.com Tue Jan 2 21:11:57 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 21:11:57 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. All this talk about heaters reminds me of some testing I did at CARB in Los Angeles (I was an engineer in the Engineering Testing/Low Emission Vehicle Testing Sections) on fuel fired heaters when it looked like the ZEV Mandate (zero emission, aka electric car...) might allow for small fuel fired heaters on board an electric car to save all the juice for propulsion instead of heat. A company called ESPAR from Germany makes a series of great heaters, powered by LPG, CNG, gasoline, or diesel and kersosene, that can be used in many formats. The one that really intrigued me was their water line model. The heater would heat and circulate the water in the cooling system of a car, truck, or whatever, and not only get the block up to temperature, but using the existing heater system to heat the cabin as well, great for retrofits. You can also use them to simply heat the cabin with direct hot air and even set them on a timer to come on at 6:42am so when you get in at 7:03am to go to work, you seat is warm and the windows are defrosted (and if you've a softtop, your side windows are melted). The UN Forces use these heaters to keep tanks "at the ready" in cold climates. And the Oil Industry uses them in frigid climates when heavy machinery needs to be used during the week, and not on weekends. They used to let the cranes and other stuff simply idle all weekend because they couldn't get them started in 40 below zero weather. This way, the heater comes on Sunday and by MOnday morn the diesels will start right up. The obvious benefit is fuel cost in areas where it is expenisve to bring fuel. This is probably fantasy talk since the cost is high, not for the faint at heart, but it just seemed like the answer to all this "cold" talk. I'm thinkin', if I hooked one of these heaters up in my defender, on a remote control like the alarm system, and . . . (PS--if anyone is really interested, I can give you the USA contact, they are indeed sold, used, and serviced here already by many school busses, and trucking companies.) John 1994 D90, Wisconsin From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 2 22:16:05 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 22:16:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Looking for a book! On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Simon Barclay wrote: > Has any one out there heard of (or got a copy of) a book called "The Early > Years". I'm told it's by a guy called Michael Hutchins(?) (not the > musician). It covers early Series 1's and details the differences/features > introduced during this time. Has lots of detailed hand drawn diagrams. It was published by the author (don't have my copy in front of me) and when I picked up my copy two years ago he had one left in stock. I'll see if I can dig up his address for you. Much emphasis is on the prototypes. From Wdcockey@aol.com Tue Jan 2 23:33:11 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 23:33:11 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: 25% tarriff - MAJOR UPDATE The 25% imported truck tarrif NO LONGER APPLIES to 2 door sport utes as a result of a decision law suit (by Nissan I believe). I believe this occured a year or so ago. I recall LRNA quoted in Automotive News as saying this would help there margin on D90's but they would also use part of it to enhance the product. The D90 SW pricing may reflect this. From Wdcockey@aol.com Tue Jan 2 23:56:16 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 23:56:16 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. In a message dated 96-01-02 21:29:22 EST, you write: >This is probably fantasy talk since the cost is high, not for the faint at >heart, but it just seemed like the answer to all this "cold" talk. I'm >thinkin', if I hooked one of these heaters up in my defender, on a remote >control like the alarm system, and . . If you think a Mansfield heater is expensive, these will make it seem cheap. From Wdcockey@aol.com Tue Jan 2 23:58:59 1996 Date: Tue, 2 Jan 1996 23:58:59 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Looking for a book! The author is Tony Hutchings, and the last place I saw which claimed to have a copy was British Northwest. Hutchings provided some updated info while back in either LRO or the SI club newletter andFrom "Steve Reddock" Wed Jan 03 05:24:55 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 05:24:55 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Gearboxes Hi all, one for the technically minded here. Last week my gearbox started making a high pitched wining noise when under load. The pitch/volume is directly proportional to road speed and load. There is no noise when off load (ie down hill) or neutral. There is also no noise under engine braking. At low speeds there is little noise. Possibly the noise only exists in 3rd and 4th, or perhaps speeds are too low in 1st & 2nd to hear it. I think it is only there in 3rd & 4th. I have checked the UJs on the rear prop and they seem OK (very quick check though, to make this much noise they would need to be close to falling off!). I haven't checked for noise at high speeds in low ratio. I was using low ratio immediately before this all started and I didn't notice anything, but the high ratio noise was quieter then. There is oil in the box. It's a series III box attached to a Ford 2.8l V6 (140 BHP & 170 ftlb) so the box is a little more stressed than usual. Can anybody think what the problem is. My best guess is a gearbox bearing breaking up. Just what I need a gearbox rebuild in the middle of winter :-( Cheers, Steve PS. Don't forget to reply in red ink with carriage returns! :-) Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From Richard Brownlee <101360.3273@compuserve.com> 03 96 Jan EST 1908 Date: 03 Jan 96 08:38:26 EST From: Richard Brownlee <101360.3273@compuserve.com> Subject: New UK export company I have been a Land Rover enthusiast for over 13 years based near London UK. I travelled to US a couple of months ago and was amazed at prices for series L/Rs and spares(new and second-hand). I am therefore setting up a company to compete in this market with more sensible prices. At the moment I need feedback from people on this list about their experiences with UK & US suppliers, what additional services are required and how I can help. I would also be grateful for details of clubs in the US and show/meet dates for 1996. Please feel free to reply on the list, private e-mail or by phone on +44 1932 880743 up to 23:00 GMT (I will call you back) Thanking you all in advance. Richard Brownlee 101360.3273@compuserve.com From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Jan 3 09:03:31 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:03:31 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: SOLD New maunual Thanks to everyone who made inquiries on the manual I offered for sale... It has been sold. Regards To All Steve Bradke WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 From Stuart Williams Wed Jan 03 09:20:00 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 09:20:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: Wiping Things Clean ... Obligatory Rover Content : Over the Christmas holidays I got a message from John Friedman about the dubious performance of the stock wiper blades on his Discovery in foul weather. He told me that after some frustrating times in the storm / blizzard that hit the Mid-West US (where the only thing that really held him up was poor visibility due to the ineffective blades) he changed to some Trico 'WeatherBlades' wiper blades and saw great improvement. Based on his advice I went out and did the same for my Disco. At $4.99 each (YMMV) they're just about the cheapest thing that you can do to your Rover. The 18" replacement units fit just fine although they look a little funky with their rubber booties to keep the framework free of ice/snow. They really do work *much* better and are quieter than stock; I highly recommend them for those folks in the northern latitudes. And now my real reason for posting this message : At the risk of getting flamed to death I'm going to ask if anyone knows how to get hold of a real live human at the location that serves this list via e-mail or other means. I'm trying to change my LRO Digest subscription from one mail account to another but the Majordomo has been less that cooperative. I've tried all possible permutations of requesting 'unsubscribe' for the 'lro-digest' and 'lro-digest-ltd' with and without various forms of my e-mail address. I know that the e-mail address for the Majordomo is right and that my messages are getting through because I keep getting back messages from the Majordomo that I'm not a subscriber. Tell that to my mail account every morning, eh? I've also tried sending messages to the address given for use if the Majordomo 'barfs' at something, but no reply as yet. Any and all help is appreciated! Stuart Williams '95 Discovery V8i '85 LandCruiser From NADdMD@aol.com Wed Jan 3 09:27:22 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:27:22 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Aluminium brazing Technical question: (Maybe Tom can reply) I have wire brushed the corrosion from the aluminium sheet metal on the seat box where it comes in contact with the frame and the toolbox. There are several holes there and numerous pits. While some shiny metal is exposed, the pits still contain the flecks of white corrosion. I plan on brazing a thin sheet of aluminium onto the corroded surfaces, patching behind the original sheet metal. I am using a BernzoMatic torch with the aluminium rods. Is the metal clean enough to proceed? (It is not going to need much in the way of torsional strength) Secondly, do I need additonal flux of some kind for this? Thanks Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, MD USA 21020 NADdMD@aol.com From Andy Dingley Wed Jan 03 15:05:17 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 15:05:17 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Poor mail order performance > lopezba@atnet.at writes: &%> And a kick in the behind for a certain UK supplier of LR parts &%> who is four weeks late on delivering my brake cylinders, so I &%> can not take my favourite vehicle for a spin thru the 15 cm/6 &%> inches of fresh snow here in Vienna! Wouldn't be Craddocks by any chance would it ? I've given up on these people altogether now. We've placed a bunch of orders with them this year and _every_ one has had items missing, or just not been shipped at all. Eventually I realised that the only reason we bought from them was that they had the big magazine advert - their actual service was poor. I now deal with DLS in Matlock (they advertise a yellow & black advert in LRO). Better prices than Craddocks, and a fast turn around. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk alt.flame - Making the world a safer place for postal workers. From Andy Dingley Wed Jan 03 15:05:21 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 15:05:21 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Re: Range Rover fuel tank sender martin@mfautley.demon.co.uk (Martin Fautley) wrote: >dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk (Andy Dingley) wrote: >>I'm having problems with my fuel tank sender ('85 petrol carb Rangie) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >I'm pleased I read this as my '82 R-R is giving broadly similar >symptoms, > As you've warned me that I have to take the tank out I think I'll >wait till the spring, and just keep filling it up. The worst part of taking the tank off is draining the fuel first (a little less unpleasant with diesel). The easiest way is to disconnect the hose under the bonnet and use the electric pump. You do need to have the tank empty, as it's an awkward struggle to get it out. It's quite quick to do though. My experience: Disconnect all hoses before pulling the tank out. Don't forget the fuel return pipe at the front of the tank. Be careful with the pipe unions. Don't place any torque on the fixed part of the pipe, as they're easily broken (particularly a rusty sender unit suction pipe). If you have problems with the breather hose, cut it and replace.The original equipment hose goes brittle and splits anyway. Changing this breather is an awkward job as connecting the filler cap end usually requires unbolting the filler cap from the body. Refitting the breather hose is _much_ easier if you have a hose clip driver with a flexible shaft. After unbolting the tank fixings, drop the tank down sideways, filler side first. Be careful not to bang the suction pipe end onto the chassis rail. Use a bayonet spanner to remove the sender locking ring. You can make your own by sawing three notches into the back of the hub bearing nut box spanner. When refitting the tank sender, use a new locking ring and check that the tank lugs aren't bent loose. I also applied Hylomar sealant to the surfaces of the rubber ring. After locking the sender in place, seal the locking ring against rust by applying a sealer. I used the same polyurethane mastic (Sikkaflex) as I used to seal wings onto the rear quarter panels. Expensive, but much stickier than silicone or acrylic. When refitting the tank, be careful not to damage the suction pipe. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk alt.flame - Making the world a safer place for postal workers. From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Wed Jan 03 16:28:02 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 16:28:02 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Towing bracket( or is it hook?) info needed. Hello all, Santa has been good to me. Found a complete towing brachet under the Xmas tree. And that is where I need some info. This is a non guinine towing bracket, but one from the biggest( and best) towing bracket manufacturers in the Netherlands( Brink B.V.), wich comes with a clear instruction sheet. But the fitting instructions on the electric system are from the kind *one fits all*, and we all know that LandRover just dont fit in the category *All*. So what I need is: 1) a good electrical diagram to connect the wires to. e.g. the wire to connect to for this green trailer light on my dashboard( This light seems to remind me towing a trailer ;-) ) 2) Where do the wires enter the body(work). Anyone out there who can transmit this info to me? P.S. I'm talking about a '95 plushmobile, a Discovery 300 TDi that is. Regards, Roy LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# "scarved for live" |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From crash@merl.com Wed Jan 3 10:26:38 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 10:26:38 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Disco electrics manual price diffrences I called up Rovers North looking for the elusive Disco electrics troubleshooting manual, and got a "yes, we got 'em, $175.76" I then called up Atlantic British. "yes, we got 'em. $59.95." A.B. really did have 'em too... got it the afternoon of the next day. It sure looks real- binder and everything. Anybody have a clue as to how a >3x price difference can occur on the same part (LR part# LJBEMENL95) -Bill Yerazunis slush-encrusted 94 Disco (and I wave!) From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Wed Jan 3 11:02:08 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:02:08 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: SII exhaust manifolds Dear All, In an email Dave McKain asked about his odd exhaust manifold with the exhaust outlet turning up. First, DON'T throw it out! If you don't want it, I know a bunch of people that need the part. The manifold was used on the early 2.25 SII engines. A fellow Land Rover collector told me once they were used for some sort of PTO unit, but I have never seen a unit that would require that exhaust route. The manifold was most common on the SII 2.25 engines that used the different size crank, with 2.5 inch main bearings rather than the 2.25 inch bearings. I know a few people going for total originality on their 60 and 61 engines, so if you want to switch, they will most likely supply you with a new unit for your old one. Good luck on your project. Mike Smith, ECR From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Wed Jan 3 11:23:10 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 11:23:10 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: '83 RR - buy or not? Dear list: A friend is looking at an '83 Rangie, about 90k miles, LT95, some rust. Asking price about US$3k. I don't quite know what to advise him, besides checking the tranny/diff/fluids. So, if it's marginally a good driver, is $2000-2500 a steal? BTW, what is the '83 RR doing here, or is it "kosher"? He didn't pop the hood, so I don't know if it's got EFI or CD's. If CD's , I KNOW what I'll advise. Thanks Jan in US. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Jan 3 09:08:16 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:08:16 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: windshield washers In message <199512280927.EAA14979@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mark Perry writes: ; > Alan Richer's account of windshield washer installation parallels mine, ; though I used a tank/pump ass'y from a Suzuki Samurai I got at a > wrecker's yard for $5. Could be same or similar as used in Toyota. ; > Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada > 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop ; Mark, If you decide to replace your rice burner washer system, the washer system used on most late sixties MGBs and probably other British cars of the era are the same as or very close to what came stock on mid & late sixties Land Rovers that came equipped with washer systems. The Green Rover's factory washer system had the same electric pump, Tutor bottle and mounting bracket as the '68 MGBGT I recently sold. TeriAnn "Celebrating my tenth year on the Usenet/Internet" twakeman@apple.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Jan 3 09:08:57 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:08:57 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: New and old Rovers, Dealerships > understand your anger, but I don't think it is a Rover problem. It is a > dealership, just need to make a buck problem, Rover, Ford, Jaguar, all > makes. ; Last time I went into a Land Rover Dealership (San Jose British Motors), I parked my IIA 109 two door in the lot next to the show room. I was there to take measurments of Defender seat cushens to see if they will fit in a series seat frame. Those who know my car know she's not one of the most pristine examples, Chipping non-stock green paint that has crinkled paint on one side from someone walking the side with a propane tourch. inner door panels removed with cadnium primer on the inside. Duct tape seat covers. Aluminum diamond plate lower side skirts, slightly tweeked from running aground & sanding fallen logs & rocks. On the plus side the car has mostly straight panels, D90 black steel wheels on 265/70/16 Mud Terrains, newish rear military bumperettes, newish front bumper with military overriders,D rings and a winch that looks like it means business. ANyway, people, including sales types came out to look the Green Rover over and asked a number of respectfull questions about her whle I was measuring D90 seat componets. Even though it was very obvious I was not in the market for a new car, i was treated well by the sales crew & they showed respect for my Land Rover. If I decide that my Green Rover needs a new young sibling, or if anyone asks me where to go to buy a new Rover, I'll point them to the San Jose British Motors. Rover lot. TeriAnn "Celebrating my tenth year on the Usenet/Internet" twakeman@apple.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Jan 3 09:10:08 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:10:08 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Salesmen In message <199512261903.OAA12160@butler.uk.stratus.com> "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" writes: > To the Series people, let's make peace! Even Israel and the PLO did it! > O.K. next time a Series person comes in I'll treat him like he owns the ; place. > Seriously, I agree we can learn from each other. Just understand ; that a modern LR dealership is there to push the current product lines. But > why ; can't you accept that these so called plushmobiles are still > real Land-Rovers, made in Soulihull? i have nothing but respect for the Defenders, and the Discovery plushmobiles have simply amazed me, easily taking all but the nastiest rock climbing in plush comfort. A goodly number of Disco owners don't seem shy about off roading and have more than proved to me that those plushmobiles are very capable Land Rovers going most places a series car can but in MUCH greater comfort. On the other hand, I can only remember seeing one Range Rover classic going off road and since the driver didn't seem experienced in offroading the show was slightly disapointing. looking at the ground effects moulding on the new US spec Range Rovers i would suspect they would get mangled if one ever tried rock crawling. i suspect the new Range Rovers are excellent for nasty conditions on pavement or maintined dirt roads but they just don't seem to have any clearence for real off roading away from gentle rolling land. The sad thing to me is that Amedeo may be right. Hiding under that bodywork that leaves little ground clearence just may be the suspension for a great offroad capable car. If the Defender is indeed discontinued in the near future, I do hope that Rover replaces it with a car that has both a great suspension and a high clearence body designed to allow the suspension to reach full articulation with large tyres. I realize that the people who purchase the new Range Rovers will amost never take them farther off road that the parking lot for a ski lift, but I sure wish that Rover didn't encumber these cars with add ons that eliminates most of the ground clearence. So far my favorate Range Rover is owned by Doug Shipman. His is rebodied with an 88 body. TeriAnn "Celebrating my tenth year on the Usenet/Internet" twakeman@apple.com From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Jan 03 12:17:50 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 12:17:50 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Aluminium brazing: be a clean Marine! If you used a steel wire brush to clean the aluminum you might as well hang it up now. You have embedded tiny pieces of unwanted metal in the surface of the aluminum. You'll have to go back and clean the area with a non-metallic abrasive such as aluminum oxide paper. Go to your local welding supply and tell them what you plan to do to repair the metal. They'll hook you up with the proper fluxes and rods. They are the experts. All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From Dixon Kenner Wed Jan 3 12:32:29 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:32:29 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: SII exhaust manifolds On Wed, 3 Jan 1996, Mike Smith wrote: > A fellow Land Rover collector told me once they > were used for some sort of PTO unit, but I have never seen a unit that > would require that exhaust route. A Koneig pto winch would love the manifold. Without it, you have to modify the exhaust pipe since it and the driveshaft to the winch wish to occupy the same position. At the time, Koneig did supply the modified front pipe, but alas, no longer. Rgds, From debrown@srp.gov 03 96 Jan MST 1910 Date: 03 Jan 96 10:34:56 MST From: debrown@srp.gov Subject: Attempted drowning of my plushmobile. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 Hello all! I've been on vacation since Dec 21st, and managed to get some things done around the house. (I've also had a lot of mail server problems and haven't been able to send mail for the past few weeks. Hope this works.) I finally got my transmission back together for the 88 (IIa). I took it all apart in JULY and had to locate some parts before I could reassemble. I "had" everything in one "corner" of the garage, but after 6 months of kids, bicycles, roommates, etc... things were not exactly the way I'd left them. In fact, everything had been dumped into one large box by my roommate. Anyway, it "only" took about 12 hours to reassemble the mess of confusion. Now, I have only to get a clutch, and reinstall.... I got some Hella replacement headlights (changeable halogen bulbs) for Christmas, and like them a lot. Not a huge difference with the standard 55/65 watt bulb, but noticeable. I can't wait to replace with 80/100 bulbs. Legal? What, me worry? ;-) Now, the drowning story... Went out with my kids one evening to an area near Phoenix, near Bartlet lake. Had lots of fun with the '87 Range Rover, and came to a river crossing. It was dark, I was alone except for a few other 4-by's in the area. At first, I could see the bottom of the river and was very confident entering it. About half way across, it started to get deeper, but I was still not worried, I had crossed this river about a year ago in a Toyota FJ40. (Granted, much can happen in a year's time!) As it was dark, and there was no obvious exit point on the opposite side of the river to "aim for", I proceeded. It got DEEP! Then VERY DEEP!, All the Hella lights (headlights, and additional Hella's) were completely submerged, then, water over the hood! I "panicked", and immediately threw it into reverse, and safely backed out. If I had been with another vehicle I'd have probably went for it, but not that night! We only had probably 20 more feet to go. As for water leaking... ALL the lights have water in them. :-( Any suggestions for removing water short of taking them off again? I've heard an air compressor can help?? Maybe a straw? Only water leaking into the vehicle was a little bit through the rear doors, one of the weatherstrips at the bottom was loose, and I've glued it since then. On another section that I was exploring, I had to turn around, and scraped the underside of the muffler. ?? Does anyone have a suggestion on relocating the muffler on a '87 RR that will help the departure angle?? I had this problem with the Disco as well, only with the Disco, I found out the HARD way, after bending the body panel and wrapping the muffler half way around the rear tire! Well, back to work... LOTS to catch up on... Dave (U-boat captain) Brown. P.S. Ray Harder please call me! All my e-mail to you bounces back! (602) 236-3544 work... (602) 820-8052 Home. #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") rear Lock-Right #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY Wed Jan 03 11:37:40 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 11:37:40 -0800 From: Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY Subject: Filters for Disco's - Headlight guards Can anyone tell me the PN for replacement oil filters in '96 Disco's ?? Not the LRNA PN but real world parts from Fram / AC / ect... ALSO. Anybody run across headlight rock sheilds for Disco's yet ?? The clear polycarbonate type, not the wire kind ?? G2 sez they have these in the home market "gear" list, but my local dealer has no knowledge of it. ---------------------------###----------------------------- PROBE ELECTRONICS 100 Higgins Road, Park Ridge IL 60068 USA Keith J. Morehouse / WB9TIY / Society of Midwest Contesters 708-696-2828 FAX: 708-698-2045 e-mail: blckhole@ripco.com ---------------------------###----------------------------- From "Mark Talbot" Wed Jan 3 17:22:58 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 17:22:58 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Land Rovers for Sale All, Just wanted to pass this along. The S1 I mentioned, as well as several 109's pickups, safari's etc., are available from Cheshire Foreign Autos here in Keene, NH. The guy that runs the place is Dick Bersavent (SP?) can be contacted on 603-876-4613. You may not find any bargains, but will have plenty of choice from used Land Rovers and old ones ready for rebuild. Dick serviced my 88 RR and "Beryl, my old SIII. He knows his land rovers. Mark From "Mark Talbot" Wed Jan 3 17:26:51 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 17:26:51 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RE: Poor mail order performance Try BM, or even Land Rover Supermarket. I too tried Craddocks, they take too long to ship 6-8 weeks and both orders were wrong. I wrote to John Craddock complaining and he never responded, so I wrote to LRO letters, and they never published it !!! Guess who is pulling the strings there ? We are not alone here in the states, my Dad refuses to order from them and he lives in the UK. Mark ---------- From Christopher Boese Wed Jan 03 10:10:24 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 10:10:24 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Filters for Disco's - Headlight guards Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY wrote: > Can anyone tell me the PN for replacement oil filters in '96 Disco's ?? > Not the LRNA PN but real world parts from Fram / AC / ect... Keith, probably someone will come up with the part number for you, but I thought I ought to mention that my dealer insists I must use original filters in order not to have warranty problems; that is, if an aftermarket filter fails and causes trouble, repairs would not be covered by warranty. Then again, what trouble could an oil filter cause? -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 beluga black Discovery V8i From debrown@srp.gov 03 96 Jan MST 1911 Date: 03 Jan 96 11:18:01 MST From: debrown@srp.gov Subject: Disco CD player FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 Brad asks if there's any "special magic" that makes the LR CD player the only option for a CD changer for the Disco. Short answer: Yes. LR has at a very minimum switched the cable pins around so only their CD changer will work with the factory radio. The "FM modulated" units (I have one) are okay, but not as good. Some of the LR places (Rovers North, British Pacific, etc.) offer the factory CD changers for a decent price. Crutchfield's MAY offer an adapter (1-800-955-3000) but they didn't a year ago when I had my Disco. Good luck... #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From debrown@srp.gov 03 96 Jan MST 1911 Date: 03 Jan 96 11:20:59 MST From: debrown@srp.gov Subject: Disco CD player FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 Brad asks if there's any "special magic" that makes the LR CD player the only option for a CD changer for the Disco. Short answer: Yes. LR has at a very minimum switched the cable pins around so only their CD changer will work with the factory radio. The "FM modulated" units (I have one) are okay, but not as good. Some of the LR places (Rovers North, British Pacific, etc.) offer the factory CD changers for a decent price. Crutchfield's MAY offer an adapter (1-800-955-3000) but they didn't a year ago when I had my Disco. Good luck... #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Bennett Leeds Wed Jan 3 10:30:08 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 10:30:08 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Re: New and old Rovers, Dealerships > If I decide that my Green Rover needs a new young sibling, or if > anyone asks me where to go to buy a new Rover, I'll point them to > the San Jose British Motors. Rover lot. That would be the exact opposite of the advice I'd give. The salesmen I've met know very little about the current models, and only one knew anything about Series Rovers. They pulled unethical tatics on me during the sales negotiation process. The service department has also so far failed in the most rudimentary of customer service items - calling the customer when the part they ordered came in AND returning a phone calls. Now maybe they're having growing pains, what with the building of their facility and all, but so far my experiences there leave much to be desired. On the other hand, I was treated very well at the Thousand Oaks Land Rover Center in southern CA during a recent trip down there (I live in No. CA). My "Check Engine" light had come on at Midnight. I called the next morning, explained the situation, and they took my car in right away and looked at it while I waited there and at the Hummer dealership around the corner ;^)). I had asked many questions and got courteous answers about everything from accessories to the new Range Rover HSE to the obstacle course in front. When my car was ready, the sales manager comes out and asks if I want to try the obstacle course, which of course I accept. He rode along with me, instructing me (which I needed). Very patient. Overall, even though these guys knew I wasn't about to buy a second LR or even be down there again any time soon, they took time out for me and turned what could have been a real hassle on a trip away from home into a pleasurable experience. - Bennett Leeds From debrown@srp.gov 03 96 Jan MST 1911 Date: 03 Jan 96 11:14:46 MST From: debrown@srp.gov Subject: Advice on water sealing. (lights, ignition) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 Forgot to mention in my last post, (nearly drowning my Range Rover) Any advice on sealing lights and ignition system? Will petroleum jelly work? (or will it just melt) Should I glue them shut with silicone? And how about the distributor? Any long term solutions? (rubber glove on a 4-cyl distributor is more of a short term solution, besides, this one's a v8.) Thanks, Dave (u-boat captain) Brown #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Bennett Leeds Wed Jan 3 10:36:44 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 96 10:36:44 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Re: Filters for Disco's - Headlight guards > my dealer insists I must use original filters in order not to have > warranty problems This is an old scam, and is now, I believe, actually illegal. Routine maintenance items do not have to be made or installed by a particular company, they just have to meet the specifications set out by the factory. Thus, you'll note that the oil and filters you buy from Castrol, Penzoil, Fram, AC, etc. all state "meets or exceeds factory specifications" (or something similar). Your warranty will NOT be voided by using them. Your dealer is just scamming you because they like charging $78 for an oil and filter change that someone else would do for less than $30. - Bennett Leeds From janjan@xs4all.nl (Jan Schokker) Wed Jan 3 20:13:43 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 20:13:43 +0100 From: janjan@xs4all.nl (Jan Schokker) Subject: Military fan or not? Hello all, A couple of weeks ago I asked this question about my fan, and the possibility of replacing it with an electric one. No reply. I decided to be stubborn, and try again. So here goes (sorry if you have seen it before): I wrote about electric fans: -- With my 109 SIII it is not an option to put it in front of the radiator I guess, because being ex-military it has an enourmous oil-cooler in front of the radiator. -- Then Stefan answered: -- In that case you would obviously need one mounted behind the rad. On the other hand I wouldn't remove the propeller from a military model with an oil cooler. The regular fans on those models are much larger and stronger than on 'normal' models with only 4 small fan blades. Depending on how close the propeller is running to the radiator, there might not be much room left for an additional electric fan. -- But: My fan has four small blades, and is only abt. 36 cm in diameter. Does this make it a non-military model? If so, how big is a military fan? If I would remove the fan, there is 7 cm clearance between the fanpulley and the radiator. That should be enough for an electric fan, right? The reason I ask is that I am looking for ways to cut down the cost of fuel, and get a quicker warm-up in winter. I am also following the recent discussion about Free-wheeling hubs with interest.It will be good for my holliday budget when I go to Spain in the summer. Someone claimed an increase in top speed of 10 mph. That seems a lot! Thanks, Jan S. (Not Jan B.) janjan@xs4all.nl De Woude, the Netherlands From Ross Leidy Wed Jan 03 14:13:03 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 14:13:03 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: Re: 25% tarriff - MAJOR UPDATE On 01/02/96 at 11:33 PM, Wdcockey@aol.com penned: >The 25% imported truck tarrif NO LONGER APPLIES to 2 door sport utes >as a result of a decision law suit (by Nissan I believe). I believe >this occured a year or so ago. I recall LRNA quoted in Automotive >News as saying this would help there margin on D90's but they would >also use part of it to enhance the product. The D90 SW pricing may >reflect this. I heard the same thing from my LR dealer when I purchased my 95 D90. The tariff was eliminated for the D90s that had the rear seat and rear roll cage installed. All of the later NAS 95 models came that way as standard equipment. As a result, the dealer had an early 95 with no rear seat or rear roll cage, and a later one with them, and they were priced nearly identically. _____________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 From "R. Pierce Reid" 03 96 Jan EST 1914 Date: 03 Jan 96 14:51:34 EST From: "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: PR 01/03 1302 LAND ROVER SETS COMPANY-WIDE RECORDS IN 1995 Thought this would be of interest. R. P. Reid LAND ROVER SETS COMPANY-WIDE RECORDS IN 1995 Sales exceed 20,000 units LANHAM, Md., Jan. 3 /PRNewswire/ -- Land Rover North America, Inc. broke all previous year-end retail records in 1995, passing the 20,000 mark for the first time, exceeding such well-known luxury marques as Jaguar and Audi, thus maintaining North America's status as the world's largest Land Rover export market. The 20,026 units sold represent a 66 percent increase over 1994's total sales. For the month of December, 2,856 retails marked the company's biggest month ever and the 21st consecutive monthly sales increase, with a 46 percent rise over the same month in 1994. The sales tally represents approximately 15 percent of Land Rover's total production, which exceeded 100,000 units this year for the first time in the company's 47 year history. Charles R. Hughes, president, Land Rover North America, said, "1995 was a year of records for us in sales, dealerbody size, employment, and product accolades. We're proud of our achievements and are aiming at continued growth in '96. "Demand is strong for every one of our vehicles," Hughes continued, "from the all-new Range Rover 4.0 SE and sporty 4.6 HSE, to the limited edition Defender 90 Station Wagon and high-value Land Rover Discovery. In addition to achieving new sales levels, our products have received a record number of awards from enthusiast and consumer publications, ranging from Automobile Magazine and Four Wheeler to Popular Science and Robb Report." Land Rover sales were paced by the nation's first exclusive four-wheel drive dealership network. Called Land Rover Centres, these unique automotive outlets offer sport utility buyers a knowledgeable sales staff, superior customer service, factory-trained technical support and expert four-wheel drive instruction, all in a comfortable, relaxed setting. The concept behind the development of Centres in the U.S. is to boost business by promoting the off-road lifestyle; Centres provide four-wheel drive vehicle accessories such as ski racks, brush bars and auxiliary lights. In addition, the company has this year begun marketing its own line of Land Rover Gear -- clothing and personal accessories designed specifically for Land Rover owners. The thirty Centres currently operating around the country have garnered a blizzard of attention from local and national business and automotive media and have been recognized as "[providing] a roadmap to the future" of automotive retailing, according to Business Week. Land Rover expects to open as many as forty more Centres by the end of 1996. The North American arm of Britain's best-selling sport utility manufacturer also posted a record year for wholesale numbers, with a total of 21,631, a 64 percent increase over 1994's 13,178, the previous all-time high. SALES SUMMARY DECEMBER '95 DECEMBER '94 Y-T-D '95 Y-T-D '94 2,856 (+46.4%) 1,951 20,026 (+66.3%) 12,045 Range Rover 828 427 6,885 4,082 Defender 90 207 127 1,571 1,468 Discovery 1,821 1,397 11,570 6,495 Land Rover North America, Inc. is a member of the Rover Group of Companies, importing vehicles manufactured by Land Rover, Solihull, England. The Rover Group is a wholly-owned subsidiary of BMW AG. -0- 1/3/96 /CONTACT: Bill Baker or Jenifer O'Brien of Land Rover, 301-731-9041/ From debrown@srp.gov 03 96 Jan MST 1913 Date: 03 Jan 96 13:14:13 MST From: debrown@srp.gov Subject: Mail madness FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 From Dixon Kenner Wed Jan 3 16:35:52 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 16:35:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. On Tue, 2 Jan 1996 JEPurnell@aol.com wrote: > This is probably fantasy talk since the cost is high, not for the faint at > heart, but it just seemed like the answer to all this "cold" talk. I'm > thinkin', if I hooked one of these heaters up in my defender, on a remote > control like the alarm system, and . . . Doesn't JC Whitless have a propane power inline heater available? Not cheap, but an idea. If there was a reasonably priced heater to heat the engine that did not require electricity, I and a couple others might be interested if shown to work. If the heater requires electricity, they are useless unless their is power at the destination. (see how well a 109 starts after sitting all day at -20c while you are at work & there are no plug ins.) From TONY YATES Thu Jan 4 05:34:23 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 05:34:23 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Advice on water sealing. (lights, ignition) On 3 Jan 1996 debrown@srp.gov wrote: > Forgot to mention in my last post, (nearly drowning my Range Rover) Any > advice on sealing lights and ignition system? Will petroleum jelly work? (or > will it just melt) Should I glue them shut with silicone? And how about the distributor? Any long term solutions? (rubber glove on a 4-cyl distributor is more of a short term solution, besides, this one's a v8.) The first time I took my 110 V8 sailing the motor spluttered and nearly died due to water in the distributor. After that I put a bead of silicone around the base of the distributor cap before installing it, and also around the HT leads, which probably isn't necessary. Haven't had any problems since. Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||_______________________|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| '85 110 V8 (Pamela) ----- ----- ===================================================================== From russ burns Wed Jan 3 14:23:16 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:23:16 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. I have an old VW gas heater I am going to install on my D-90 someday. With the fuel presure from the EFI, I could probably turn the Damn thing into a jet engine.... Russ Burns > Doesn't JC Whitless have a propane power inline heater available? > Not cheap, but an idea. If there was a reasonably priced heater [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > destination. (see how well a 109 starts after sitting all day at > -20c while you are at work & there are no plug ins.) Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Jan 3 17:42:43 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 17:42:43 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: ROAV newsletters The most recent club newsletters are being posted out tonight/tomorrow, and as 33 of you on this list are club members, I'm going to say something here first. There is a typo - the club T-shirts are for sale for $15, *not $1.5*. So, any of you wise acres who insist on the latter price will get a package alright, but it'll be from the Unabomber instead! Cheers and Happy New Year to all. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Wes Newman Wed Jan 3 15:05:19 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:05:19 AST From: Wes Newman Subject: Electrical problems with 1967 109" NADA Need help.... I need to find a short...I think. Tried to start my 1967 109 the other day and the battery was dead... charged it and the Rover ran well for a week, but last night when driving home the instrument panel lights went dim and then it would not start after about 2 hours when I needed to go.... th battery was completely dead again. I know there's a short but how do I find it. Wes Newman Anchorage, Alaska 1967 NADA 109 Land Rover From Daniel Polak <100013.511@compuserve.com> 03 96 Jan EST 1919 Date: 03 Jan 96 19:07:38 EST From: Daniel Polak <100013.511@compuserve.com> Subject: military vehicles magazine Sometime ago I asked somebody on the list where to get Military Vehicles magazine and was given an address to contact them on, I left it that at home. I am now on holiday in Ft. Lauderdale Florida (I live in the Netherlands, normal e-mail daniel@sys.nl) I went in to several bookstores and asked about this magazine. None had it on sale. Is it only available to subscribers? If not where would I be able to get it? Please reply directly to my Compuserve address as I am not subscribed to the list from my Compuserve account. Daniel Polak From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Jan 3 19:35:23 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:35:23 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Poor mail order performance In a message dated 96-01-03 14:34:12 EST, you write: >Wouldn't be Craddocks by any chance would it ? I've given up on these >people altogether now. We've placed a bunch of orders with them this >year and _every_ one has had items missing, or just not been shipped >at all. I've had reasonably good luck with Craddocks over the last several years, including several months ago. I've faxed a request for quote, then faxed the order and paid by bankcard. Just don't expect genuine unless specified. No experience with DLS. David Cockey Rochester, Michigan From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Jan 3 19:39:48 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 19:39:48 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Salesmen Just a thought. Both our SII's were originally purchased by professionals with good incomes who used thame as second vehicles and never took them off-road seriously. Do I detect a similarity to many current Discovery and RR owners. From Duncan Brown Wed Jan 03 21:45:37 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 21:45:37 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: military vehicles magazine Daniel, > Sometime ago I asked somebody on the list where to get Military Vehicles > magazine and was given an address to contact them on, I left it that at home. I That was me! > am now on holiday in Ft. Lauderdale Florida (I live in the Netherlands, normal > e-mail daniel@sys.nl) I went in to several bookstores and asked about this > magazine. None had it on sale. Is it only available to subscribers? If not where > would I be able to get it? I've never seen it on any newsstand... > Please reply directly to my Compuserve address as I am not subscribed to the > list from my Compuserve account. I'm replying to both places, in case others are interested: Military Vehicles Magazine PO Box 1748 Union, NJ 07083 908-688-6015 9am-12pm Mon-Thurs Eastern time fax 908-686-0358 9am-4pm Mon-Thurs Eastern time 6 issues per year USA: 1yr $18/ 2yr $29 Canada: 1yr $28/ 2yr $49 All other: 1yr $30/ 2yr $54 (Higher for first class mailing; US funds on a US bank; no credit cards) Back issues are available for $3 each ($5 outside US) [iss's 1,2,5 NLA] January 1996 is issue number 53 It's fun reading, even though I'll probably never actually own the duece and a half I'd like to! Recent issues have seen several very nice running *actual* military HMMWV's selling for far less than their chintsy civilian counterparts. Nobody addresses street-legality though- that's probably the "problem" that drives down the price... Duncan From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Jan 03 18:47:18 1996 Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 18:47:18 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: military vehicles magazine Daniel Polak <100013.511@compuserve.com> writes: :Sometime ago I asked somebody on the list where to get Military Vehicles :magazine and was given an address to contact them on, I left it that at home. I :am now on holiday in Ft. Lauderdale Florida (I live in the Netherlands, normal :e-mail daniel@sys.nl) I went in to several bookstores and asked about this :magazine. None had it on sale. Is it only available to subscribers? If not where :would I be able to get it? It's probably only available by subscription. "Army Motors" and "Suppy Line" are published by the Military Vehicle Preservation Association (MVPA) PO Box 520378, Independance, Missouri, USA 64052-0378 Ph. 816-737-5111, Fax 816-737-5423, Orders 800-365-5798 Cheers, Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From "Gerald" Wed Jan 3 22:09:18 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 22:09:18 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: New and old Rovers, Dealerships On 3 Jan 96 at 10:30, Bennett Leeds wrote: . . . . > Overall, even though these guys knew I wasn't about to buy a second > LR or even be down there again any time soon, they took time out for > me and turned what could have been a real hassle on a trip away from > home into a pleasurable experience. And even if they were not motivated out of kindness or brand loyalty they got something for their work. You told a large number of people about your experience. So when my sister-in-law in Los Angeles decides to become an LRO . . . . -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Gerald" Wed Jan 3 22:09:17 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 22:09:17 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Filters for Disco's - Headlight guards On 3 Jan 96 at 11:37, Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY wrote: . . . . > Anybody run across headlight rock sheilds for Disco's yet ?? The clear > polycarbonate type, not the wire kind ?? G2 sez they have these in the > home market "gear" list, but my local dealer has no knowledge of it. Rovers North has them as "Perspex Lamp Protectpr Set" part STC8932 for US$85. That is the same part number as in the UK accessories catalog for Discos made after Mar 94. No picture in either place. Just today I was thinking of getting some myself. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From BDaviscar@aol.com Wed Jan 3 23:24:40 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 23:24:40 -0500 From: BDaviscar@aol.com Subject: fuel to burn? Hi All My name is Bruce. I am new to the list and the net. I own a 1967 SIIa 88. I am having a problem with the fuel gauge. It reads empty when full and half a tank when empty. I had to replace the tank with a used one (there was none in the 88 when I got it.) the sender worked fine when it was removed from my brothers 72 SIIA 88 my 88 was positive ground but is now negitive ground. this is most likely why it reads backwards but the reading half full when empty has me stumped. Can anyone Help? Some back ground on the car. When I got it a year ago the engine was stuck, the trans was in first for life. The landi had been sitting out side a barn in Wisconson for two to three years and as best I can tell for about 15 years all together. My brother and I have brought it back from the "dead" and it is now my daily driver. It looks to have parts from about 5 other landi's on it as it is that many colors. That is why I call it Patches. so can anyone help ? PLEASE!! Bruce, Chicago 67 SIIA 88 named Patches From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 96 Jan EST 1923 Date: 3 Jan 96 23:25:05 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Electrical problems with 1967 109" NADA Re: Short: Sit down with the schematics and think a bit. Whatever it is is fairly heavy and is not on the fused circuits, else the fuses would have blown (or did they?). Lights dimming and a battery draining down that fast would make me suspect the control box on the charging system, or something primary to the battery circuit. Low-amp stuff like lights or the heater would melt wiring before it would dim the lights. As far as finding a short, basically you need to look at the system in a failed condition (dim lights and so forth) and start unplugging stuff until the problem goes away. The trick is to be methodical - disconnect one thing at a time, and reconnect it if it proves to not be the culprit. Start with the main branches, then find the section that fails and work downhill from there. What was the ammeter reading? Alan From Andy Dingley Thu Jan 04 05:13:03 1996 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 05:13:03 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Connector availability Does anyone have a UK source for the multi-pole connectors used on an '85 Rangie ? These are the round plastic bodies with the rubber water seal and the round pins. I'm usually happy with my 1/4" spades in multipole blocks, but they're a little bulky and require a wrap of self amalgamating tape to waterproof them. I can't find them at Lucas, Ripaults or Durite. Thanks. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk alt.flame - Making the world a safer place for postal workers. From David Rosenbaum Wed Jan 3 21:20:43 1996 Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 21:20:43 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: military vehicles magazine Dear Daniel, Subscribe by writing to Military Vehicles Magazine Eagle Press P.O. Box 1748 Union, N.J. 07083 (USA $18/yr or $29/2yr) The magazine also lists a phone #: (908) 688-6015 [Monday-Thurs."9AM-12PM" Eastern Time] Best wishes, David Is 12PM noon or midnight?! From Peter Venters Thu Jan 4 10:07:20 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:07:20 +0000 (WET) From: Peter Venters Subject: Gearbox whine Steve, For what its worth, I had a very similar complaint in my gearbox (SIIA box with Perkins 4.182 driving it). On removing the box, I found that the input shaft was very rough to turn by hand; it felt very much as if either the input shaft bearing or the gears driving the layshaft were seriously damaged. I was amazed that it would still work. I did not investigate further but fitted a reconditioned box. This has so far not given any problems (but has not been fitted for very many miles). Good luck, Peter From "Steve Reddock" Thu Jan 04 05:38:38 1996 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 05:38:38 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Wading Hi, I have the same problem with filling halogen headlamps up with muddy water. In the past I have had to remove them and clean then with some fairy liquid and an old tooth brush. Careful on the reflector though! I have never had trouble with bulbs after doing this. I have seen a rubber cover for the back of headlamps which may work. I don't know where to get them from though. Sealing the bulb aperture with silicone is probably not a good idea as the bulbs get so hot. The easiest solution is to fit my old sealed beams, which have the same connector on the back as the halogens (but this may not be normal) whilst I am playing. I put a bead of grease around the base of my distributor cap then spray grease (like WD40 but much thicker) on the HT leads. I have had the engine running in deep enough water to suck an air filter full on my old 2.25 (can anybody guess why I fitted a new engine after that?). It didn't quite hydraulic but it was never the same again. I still remember stopping at the side of the motorway on my way home because suddenly it wouldn't go over 35 MPH and cleaning the mud out of the carb! Some day I may go for a snorkel for the piece of mind, but it would have to be home made for a V6 lightweight. Then I would need a snorkel for the driver... Happy wading, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From BDaviscar@aol.com Thu Jan 4 07:37:31 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 07:37:31 -0500 From: BDaviscar@aol.com Subject: The Magic genie oil Hi All I have a product that is worth its weight in gold. It is called Kroil and puts most of the other penitrating oils to shame. It helped my brother and I to free my engine and I did not have to take it a part. The only thing is you can get it in the store you have to get it from the manufacturer so here it is Kano Laboratories in Nashiville, Tenn phone # 615-833-4101 this stuff has helped me get nuts off that have been on out side for 15 years. It is great!!! Bruce 67 SIIA 88 Patches From "Tom Rowe" Thu Jan 4 07:47:35 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 07:47:35 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Electrical problems with 1967 109" NADA Wes Newman asks: Snip > I know there's a short but how do I find it. Wes, Depending on the symptoms, it could be much simpler. A bad charging system. That's what I'd check first. Then the true condidtion of the battery, it may not be able to hold a charge. If they check ok, then pull one of the battery cables and see if you get a spark when you touch it back to the battery post. You shouldn't, unless you have something that draws current all the time, like a voltmeter. Nothing stock on the '67 NADA does. (Are your heated windscreen switches in the off position?) If not spark, then get out the wiring diagram and see what is energized with the switch on. Disconnect things like your oil light, and coil, turn on the ignition switch and see if you get a spark on the battery post. If not, add back the fuses one at a time, checking for a spark after each. Oh, make sure your battery is charged when you start. That's the general proceedure I'd use. Process of elimination. Good luck. Maybe some others can offer better suggestions. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Jan 4 07:55:00 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 07:55:00 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. Dixon writes > Doesn't JC Whitless have a propane power inline heater available? Not cheap, but an idea. If there was a reasonably priced heater to heat the engine that did not require electricity, I and a couple others might be interested if shown to work. If the heater requires electricity, they are useless unless their is power at the destination. (see how well a 109 starts after sitting all day at -20c while you are at work & there are no plug ins.) > Doesn't JC Whitless have a propane power inline heater available? Dixon, Zeor Start makes two propane powered thermo siphon engine heaters. If I remember the smaller of the two is about 5,000 (or was it 500? damn)Btu and about 3" dia and about 7-8" long. Comes with everything to mount it except the propane tank. I had my Zero Start catalog out the other day, I'll try to remember to get the PN. If you're seriously interested in one, I used to have an account with them. I may be able to get you a better price than the local auto parts house. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com 4 96 Jan -0500 1908 Date: 4 Jan 96 08:23:08 -0500 From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Subject: Disco ABS Effectiveness I had some opportunity over the holiday to play with the Disco's brakes on icy surfaces. In situations where all 4 wheels were on ice, they seemed to do a decent job. But in split mu tests, where one side of the vehicle was on ice and the other wasn't, the results were dissappointing. The ABS appeared to modulate both sides when the low traction side started to lock. Stopping distances were very long, regardless of pedal pressure or technique and I never felt that braking force on the high traction side came anywhere close to that available. Has anyone else experienced this? Does the Disco use 4, 3 or 2 channel detection/modulation? Mark Kraieski From "Tom Rowe" Thu Jan 4 07:58:14 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 07:58:14 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. Russ writes: > I have an old VW gas heater I am going to install on my D-90 someday. With the fuel presure from the EFI, I could probably turn the Damn thing into a jet engine.... > I have an old VW gas heater I am going to install on my D-90 someday. Russ, I VW mechanic told me some years back that quite a few VW's went up in flames from those. Not to put a damper on your optimism or anything. Of course that didn't stop me from looking for one for my bus. Be careful. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Andrew A. Dallas" Thu Jan 4 09:07:44 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:07:44 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Re: Electrical problems with 1967 109" NADA >Need help.... >I need to find a short...I think. Tried to start my 1967 109 the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >when I needed to go.... th battery was completely dead again. >I know there's a short but how do I find it. Sounds to me like your alternator is undercharging. Perhaps the voltage regulator (which is probably built into the unit) is bad. -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135 (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From "Gerald" Thu Jan 4 09:25:41 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:25:41 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Disco ABS Effectiveness On 4 Jan 96 at 8:23, Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta- wrote: > I had some opportunity over the holiday to play with the Disco's brakes on > icy surfaces. In situations where all 4 wheels were on ice, they seemed to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > never felt that braking force on the high traction side came anywhere close > to that available. I think the 95 had less than 4 channels (is 3 possible?) and the 96 has 4 channel ABS. I found (on a 96 Disco) that stopping with the right wheels on snow and the left on almost snow free pavement that the ABS worked very well. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Thu Jan 4 06:35:48 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 06:35:48 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: fuel to burn? You have a series IIA guage and a series III sender unit on the petrol tank. The sender units on a series II and a series III are wound in oposit directions. You can take one of two cures 1. Put a IIA sender unit on the tank (from your old tank?). This will bring it back into stock. Don't forget a new gasket & fiber washers on the mounting screws to keep petrol from leaking out the top. 2. Put a series III guage or the guage from about any other British car in your series IIA. The series II sender unit is wound oposit just about everything else the British made. The second solution is the one I took because I went to multiple fuel tanks & guages and wanted the guages to look alike. I removed the large multiple guage and replaced it with matched Smith fuel guages, a Lucas Amp meter and Lucas Volt meter on small double IIA guage panels. I put a MGB tach in the big hole. 1967 & earlier works for Pos earth, 1968 and later for Neg earth Land Rovers. The MGB tach gives me a large easly readable tach that looks like it came on the car from the factory, and the seperate smaller guages on Rover panels not only maintain the "look" but are easler to read and tell me what I have in each front tank. I have not yet decided if adding a third fuel guage for the new rear tank is just one too many guage or not. My 109 two door has a petrol tank under each front seat and a rear tank. TeriAnn From NADdMD@aol.com Thu Jan 4 09:58:33 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:58:33 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Re: Disco ABS Effectiveness Mark Kraieski states: But in split mu tests, where one side of the vehicle was on ice and the other wasn't, the results were dissappointing. The ABS appeared to modulate both sides when the low traction side started to lock. Stopping distances were very long, regardless of pedal pressure or technique and I never felt that braking force on the high traction side came anywhere close to that available. This may not be entirely correct, but my understanding is that ABS work by releasing braking force when the wheel's linear velocity does not match with what would be expected from the angular velocity, that is, if the tire slides across the ground faster than would be expected by its rotational speed, the ABS lessens the braking force. If two wheels are on ice and two on dry pavement, even though the dry pavement wheels COULD stop faster, to do so would put one into a sideways slide ( the icy wheels continuing along with their inertial velocity). The ABS senses this and decreases the braking force. Proponents state that the decrease in braking force is more than offset by the improved control. (Some promo tapes show some pretty amazing feats of steering accuracy on icy courses). The various systems are designed to detect this discrepency at different levels of sensitivity in various conditions. Again, this may not be entirely accurate, but is what a couple of auto dealers explained to me when I asked the same question. From russ burns Thu Jan 4 07:20:45 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 07:20:45 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. Doesn't Propane freeze at some ungodly Canadian Temperature? Or am I confused with butane. Russ At 07:55 AM 1/4/96 -0600, Tom Rowe wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Dixon writes [ truncated by lro-digester (was 39 lines)] > Four wheel drive allows you to get > stuck in places even more inaccessible. Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Thu Jan 4 10:25:41 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:25:41 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: SII engine oddities Dear All, A question was emailed to me about SII petrol engines, thought I'd share the reply for anyone about to start a rebuild on a SII engine. Some of the SII engines had a 2.5 inch main bearings, the engines also had the following differences from the newer 2.25 SIIA units. Connecting rods are different, due to the crank size. The crank and its caps obviously The oil dip stick and tube The rear main seal and its two retainers The exhaust manifold, sometimes The down facing tube that heads for the water pump off the thermostat housing is a different casting. The front cover and the water pump The questions was what else would he have to worry about in the rebuild. The oil tube and dip stick, the rear main seal (Rovers North sells a conversion kit with new retainers and the new style seal to solve this problem), and having good con. rods and crank that can be machined, the rest can be updated to the new engines stuff. Hope this helps someone, good luck with the rebuild Jim. Mike Smith, ECR From Lars Rosenmeier <100670.3705@compuserve.com> 04 96 Jan EST 1910 Date: 04 Jan 96 10:37:38 EST From: Lars Rosenmeier <100670.3705@compuserve.com> Subject: Re:Auxiliary Heater for anything Hi all, I am new to this list and my name is Lars and i live in Denmark. I am sorry to say that i am not a Land Rover owner at the moment, but i have owned a Range Rover turbo diesel from 87 to 91 and my father drives a conistan green '96 Land Rover Discovery V8i 4dr. with 7x16 steel wheels and without the usual plushmobile extras such as: twin sunroofs, A/C, CD-player, wood panels etc. What i actually wanted to tell you was that i have been using an ARDIC engine and cabine heater in my car for the last 3 years and it is my experience that a petrol (or diesel) fuelled engine heater is the top priority add on, if you live in areas where it gets cold in winter. I use it to preheat the engine and defrosting the cabin and when the weather is very cold i have it turned on for the first 10 min. or so while driving. I even use mine in summer evenings to preheat the engine if the temperature drops below 10 degrees C. I bought the Ardic heater because it was made in Sweden by Volvo Flygmotor and because it looked well made in polished stainless steel. As far as i know Eberspaecher, Webasto, Ardic and Bacho make these heaters in both petrol and diesel fuelled versions, some even with remote control. They may seem expensive, but remember that you can always remove it before selling your car and then reinstall it in your new car. BTW i heard that one of the above mentioned companies are bringing a new cheaper model on the market with a price in the area of 700 USD. Lars From jim@kidd.com (jnk) Thu Jan 4 10:35:09 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:35:09 -0400 From: jim@kidd.com (jnk) Subject: Possible Rally in FL Hello Everyone, My father (Nick Karantinos) and a friend (Burt Godwin) are considering putting together a Rally/Swap Meet in April/May 1996. We are located in Lake City, FL (North Florida between Jacksonville and Tallahassee) and the Osceola National Forest is nearby with some excellent trails. Is there any interest? Jim Karantinos From Dixon Kenner Thu Jan 4 10:47:50 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:47:50 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Tom Rowe wrote: > Zeor Start makes two propane powered thermo siphon engine heaters. > If I remember the smaller of the two is about 5,000 > (or was it 500? damn)Btu and about 3" dia and about 7-8" long. Comes > with everything to mount it except the propane tank. Sounds like the one I have seen described before. Any idea on cost? (wonder how far down the temp can drop before propane doesn't like to co-operate either?) Time to hit Canadian Tire for a longer extension cord. Sunday started the 109 up, drove from the end of the driveway up to the garage & turned it off. Changed the starter selenoid. Started it back up and backed it down the driveway & turned off. Monday it wouldn't start. Battery too low. 109 is parked 3 feet further way than my longest extension cord to get the charger to the battery (or the block heater for that matter) At least the lamppost is protected by a snow bank nearly at the roof line of the Land Rover... From stretch@vol.net Thu Jan 4 23:58:57 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 23:58:57 PST From: stretch@vol.net Subject: intro & request accessory info I'm new to the list...looks very interesting. Does anyone have info on either of the following accessories?? Hood (engine cover) mount for spare wheel & tire for late model Defender? I see lots of photos, but no catalog listing with stuff I have. Gaiters (leather front swivel protection) for Defender? thanks much John Collins In Hong Kong From 04 96 Jan EST 1910 Date: 04 Jan 96 10:07:26 EST From: Subject: Mail order stories. Chances are that even the best mail order places have screwed up once in a while. Have ordered from Craddocks and Liverpool Lr supermarkets, RN and ABP for a variety of things. Craddocks were great. Getting the part in shipping it over etc just as promised. Liverpool were bozos trying to stiff me for UKL50 shipping (I talked them out of it) on an UKL84 part (stowable boot* cover for my discovery) then really screwed me by shipping the rr version. That error will cost me thousands to get right (wife wants a rr now). RN and ABP have proven great to deal with. Picked up military tow hooks and other bits and pieces from RN and got the stowable boot cover for my disco from ABP. Chris Browne 95 Discovery. (dashing through the snow in a 182 hp land rover discovery....) From "Tom Rowe" Thu Jan 4 10:16:18 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:16:18 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Auxiliary propane Heaters Dixon asks > Sounds like the one I have seen described before. Any idea on > cost? The last price sheet I have (old) has a price of around $100 US I think. (wonder how far down the temp can drop before propane > doesn't like to co-operate either?) The cabin I lived in in VT the winter od '92 had a propane stove. Never had any problem and it got well below zero a few times. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com 4 96 Jan -0500 1911 Date: 4 Jan 96 11:28:02 -0500 From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Subject: Tires Available for Disco I have not been entirely satisfied with the off-road performance of the factory Michelins on my '96 Disco, especially during moderate ascents in wet Georgia clay (which I see a lot of!). After a few tire revolutions up such a hill, the small tread voids are completely filled and forward progress ceases. Applying power to spin-clean the tires gets enough bite to take me the rest of the way up the hill in a somewhat dramatic sideways fashion. I made several attempts on one hill experimenting with different gears and hi/lo range (yes, center diff was locked) but was never completely satisfied. Then a stock Jeep climbed right up with minimal drama on BFG MTs. What tires are readers running on their Discos? What non-standard sizes? What sizes will fit without rubbing? The stock tires are 235/70R16. I know Mark Ritter is (sometimes) running the 225/75R16 BFG MTs which are slightly narrower (10mm) but are also a hair taller in theory (doing the math, 235*.7=164.5mm versus 225*.75=168.75mm rim to surface). I have found few aggressive off-road tires available in the stock Disco size. The BFG's and some other brands are available in both 225/75R16 and 245/75R16. Any chance the larger size will fit? They are quite a bit taller (mathematically, 38.5mm total or 1 and a half inches). Anybody running these? What will the tires hit through full articuation and can those components be massaged to provide clearance? Thanks! Mark Kraieski From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Thu Jan 4 08:46:44 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 08:46:44 PST From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: San Jose British Motors (was Re: New and old Rovers, Dealerships) Someone wrote: >> If I decide that my Green Rover needs a new young sibling, or if >> anyone asks me where to go to buy a new Rover, I'll point them to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >> anyone asks me where to go to buy a new Rover, I'll point them to >> the San Jose British Motors. Rover lot. Then Bennett replied: >From: Bennett Leeds >hat would be the exact opposite of the advice I'd give. >> the San Jose British Motors. Rover lot. With regards to San Jose British Motors: I have only positive things to say about both the sales staff putting up with my nagging questions, the parts people searching for components, not yet in their books, and calling me back with "discount" prices, and service that has fixed both minor and major problems. On a house scouting trip when I was relocating to the Bay Area, one of the sales people was courteous enough to go dig up a tape measure to verify D90 height with plastic hard top. ( So I could make a decision on a rental with a low garage door. ) I had purchased my D90 in Mission Viejo and had driven up in my friends Jeep. The sales people seem genuinely interested in my Land Rover experience. I've been queried about accessory part sources and offroad performance. ( It is pretty obvious my D90 has seen some tough trails :) ) Last year (late '94?) they had a Series vehicle forsale on their lot. It was placed in very prominient position in front of the dealership. -Rick (and no, I have no vested interest in San Jose British Motors.) '94 D90 Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From NADdMD@aol.com Thu Jan 4 11:48:14 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:48:14 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Re: Mail order stories. Chris Browne states: > RN and ABP have proven great to deal with. Picked up military tow > hooks and other bits and pieces from RN and got the stowable boot > cover for my disco from ABP. I totally agree. Both RN and ABP have given good advice (RN stronger in the technical) and have been excellent about shipping parts and accepting parts back when the parts were not right or turned out to be not needed (ABP took back 2 doorpost weld-ins 2 months afterwards when it turned out the old ones were ok!) Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, Maryland USA 21020 NADdMD@aol.com 67 SIIA home(410)429-4964 work(410)828-2704 From Shaun Carrigan Thu Jan 04 10:57:49 1996 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 10:57:49 -0500 From: Shaun Carrigan Subject: Re: 88 RR: Self-emptying washer fluid reservoir Has anyone attempted a repair for the leaking pump that causes this problem? The left headlamp washer on my '88 RR recently developed this problem and it's more than a trickle... Shaun Carrigan From Dixon Kenner Thu Jan 4 12:05:51 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:05:51 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Auxiliary propane Heaters On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Tom Rowe wrote: > The cabin I lived in in VT the winter od '92 had a propane stove. > Never had any problem and it got well below zero a few times. It is the perfromance at under -20c I am interested in. Two years ago, the high for a 20 day period in Jan-Fed was -22c. In the -30c's in the mornings. My real worry is starting the 109 after being at work all day. There are no electrical outlets around in the parking lot. Of course, I did used to bring a propane torch into work with me when I was driving the winter Mini... :-) From "S.W.Brierley" Thu Jan 4 17:16:56 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:16:56 GMT From: "S.W.Brierley" Subject: Ace Ventura- MURDERER...AHHHHHHH. Sorry all for that outburst, But anyone (who loves LR's) will have just about the same reaction if they see Ace (hah) Ventura's new movie. Lets set the scene....... British Consul in the middle of jungle, camera pans across the front of the building........ LOOK, FOUR LandRovers, Bloody four. Shouts Stuart to himself. (2x IIa and 2 x III-all SWB). At last someone has realised the cinematic virtues of such wonderful vehicles. Then what happens.... throughout the fil they flamin' trash two of them, I was a broken man upon leaving that there cinema, I can tell you that. Am I the only one who mourns the death of LR's or are there others like me who suffer such mental torture. Anyway, i'll stop blubbing now. Bye for now, keep up the damn good list. Stu and EMMA ( a '76 SWB Ser III V8- Love of my life) From JEPurnell@aol.com Thu Jan 4 12:32:17 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:32:17 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. In a message dated 96-01-03 17:32:08 EST, you write: > If the heater requires > electricity, they are useless unless there is power at the > destination. (see how well a 109 starts after sitting all day at > -20c while you are at work & there are no plug ins.) Don't know about the Whitless heater availability, but the heaters I'm talking about require around 2 amps for a small fan. This is a continuous current draw so you'd have to be able to supply that for as long as needed and still be able to start the engine. Upon starting the heater, it will draw 20 amps for about a minute or two in order to heat the combustion chamber, then fires off. After that the hot combustion chamber is the "ignition" source. John 1994 D90, Wisconsin. From JEPurnell@aol.com Thu Jan 4 12:32:12 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:32:12 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: Aux. heaters After a few responses on the fancy auxiliary heaters, here is the skinny: Espar Heater Products Eric Jesseman 800-387-4800 6435 Kestrel Rd, Mississauga, Ontario, Canada, L5T1Z8 fax 905-670-0728 Tell him John Purnell, of California Air Resources Board infamity gave you the contact, I may have to call him for a job. :>) John 1994 D90, Wisconsin. Hey, it's 20 degrees today, Hooorraayyyy!!!! . . . "where DID I put that heater information..." From "Tom Rowe" Thu Jan 4 12:17:42 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:17:42 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Auxiliary propane Heaters Snip > It is the perfromance at under -20c I am interested in. Two years > ago, the high for a 20 day period in Jan-Fed was -22c. In the -30c's snip Dixon, I'll see if I can get an operating range. or You could always wrap the propane tank in a battery blanket wired to a second battery. Or, like at Pruhoe Bay, leave it idling all day. ;-) Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Jan 4 14:10:41 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 14:10:41 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: re: John Collins in Hong Kong John; Sorry....... I did it again, deleted a message before I got the chance to copy down the e-mail address..Please send me your address......Were you from Oyster Bay, NY?? Thanks, Steve Bradke WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 petrol From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Jan 4 12:01:49 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:01:49 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: FW: Filters for Disco's OIL - Fram PH5443 AIR - Cooper AG1103 -- Bob W. From "barnett childress" Thu Jan 4 15:28:48 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 15:28:48 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Pull Pal/Drivetrain noise? Hi all, A Couple of things; First, I'm thinking of buying a Pull Pal. Some of the off-roading I do is on power or gas line tracks and a good winching point can be scarce. 1- Does anyone out there have any experience using this device? 2- Does it really work? In loose dirt, sand, mud? 3- Is it easy to use/setup/breakdown? 4- Any recommendations on size, 8" or 10" spade? Will be used for a D90. Second; a while back someone posted a problem with a defective transmission or transfer case on a D90. I'm getting a slight grinding/meshing noise when fluttering the gas pedal at 50 to 60 MPH. This usually happens when I back off of the gas. Has anyone had any similar problems with a D90? Any information is greatly appreciated. Regards, Barnett 95 D90. From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Thu Jan 4 15:35:35 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 15:35:35 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: sealing a v8 and more on v8 parts Re: swimming with a v8. _theoretically_ (i.e. I have not done this) the timing cover of the 3.5 is interchangeable w. the Buick 231 v6. Thus, stock GM crank-triggerred ignition is available. So at least the points are eliminated. Not quite sure if there is a coil pack that would work, any ideas? Of course, there are aftermarket systems, too. Also, post-75 Buick HEI fits nicely for those who don't trust uncle Lucas. As for my v8 projects, I found an Olds 215 that I will stroke to ~4.3l. Meanwile I'll borrow the 4bbl intake to replace the silly Strombergs on the Rover. I hope to complete the swap this spring. I also found an SD1 EFI system, which would work in lieu of the "proper" LR EFI, I hope. Jan (in US) From PurnellJE@aol.com Thu Jan 4 15:44:28 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:44:28 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Auxiliary propane Heaters In a message dated 96-01-04 13:32:43 EST, you write: >I'll see if I can get an operating range. >or >You could always wrap the propane tank in a battery blanket wired to >a second battery. >Or, like at Pruhoe Bay, leave it idling all day. ;-) Wouldn't it be easier to plug the blanket into an outlet? You'd probably wear that aux battery down quick... :) From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Thu Jan 4 12:47:55 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:47:55 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Mail order stories. > > RN and ABP have proven great to deal with. Picked up military tow > > hooks and other bits and pieces from RN and got the stowable boot > > cover for my disco from ABP. > I totally agree. Both RN and ABP have given good advice (RN stronger in the > technical) and have been excellent about shipping parts and accepting parts > back You guys might want to give British Pacific in Southern California a try. They are nice friendly enthusiasts and have been making big expansions in their invintory. Their parts are high quality and they are almost always the low price leader in the US. A satisfied customer TeriAnn From o.evans@latrobe.edu.au (Owen Evans) Fri Jan 05 08:43:41 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 08:43:41 +1000 From: o.evans@latrobe.edu.au (Owen Evans) Subject: Warning lights SIIA Hello LROs I have a query regarding replacement bulbs for warning (instrument panel) lights that I hope someone will be able to help with. My (Haynes) manual indicates, (with one exception) that the warning lights and instrument panel lights are 12v, 2.2w with a Lucas part number. The exception is the flasher warning light, also 12v, 2.2w, but specified as "Magnatex GBP". My question is, what is so special about this particular light, and will the sky fall in if I use anything else? Owen Evans 1971 SIIA 88 "Agatha" From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Jan 4 17:47:14 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:47:14 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Models Received a catalog from Hobby heaven Grand Rapids, Mich. 1-616-453-1094 fax 1-616-791-9295 ... they list the following plastic glue-together type models which may be of interest.... Range Rover, Paris-Dakar Rally $ 17.00 Kit # ESCI 3033 Range Rover, Camel Trophy $ 17.00 Kit # ESCI 3036 No year is listed for either model I beleive they are 1:24 scale No series LR Kits available Regards Steve Bradke 72 s lll 88 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Jan 5 09:18:17 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 09:18:17 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Wading and lights Steve has a problem too: > I have seen a rubber cover for the back of headlamps which may work. I > don't know where to get them from though. Sealing the bulb aperture > with silicone is probably not a good idea as the bulbs get so hot. The rubber boots usually come with the Lamps, but dont worry they dont help too much. Water still gets in just less... you still have to dry them out in the oven :-) > The easiest solution is to fit my old sealed beams, which have the same > connector on the back as the halogens (but this may not be normal) > whilst I am playing. Once upon a time it was possible to get Hella Sealed halogen beams, let me try to explain. Its a sealed beam, but inside is a full on H4 halogen globe, not an exposed filament. I havent seen them in any shops for a while but it may be worth rummaging through a parts book, always figured to try them one day but... I've found that outboard protectant makes a good ignition anti-wet, for those that can get it BP CPD-32, is quite good and usually dirt cheap, most of the servo's here in Adelaide dont carry it, they dont know how good it really is. Used to sell boxes of the stuff when I worked in the tropics. I have no connection with BP, though given the amount of petrol I buy they should give me shares..... -- Daryl From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Thu Jan 04 18:21:36 1996 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 18:21:36 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: fuel to burn? >X-State: 3 >X-Total-length: 2013 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 41 lines)] >it reads backwards but the reading half full when empty has me stumped. Can >anyone Help? So what else is new? A funky fuel gauge? I'd like to hear about that transmission and how you "unstuck" the engine! A Series owner can't be bothered by such trivialities as a fuel gauge. "Press On Regardless !" and all that. OK, so I'm no help. As we all know, fuel guages are just stupid resistor coils that say whatever they are told. I'd spend a minute looking at the way the sender wires are attached (experience shows that just because a wire is red on one end doesn't mean it's red on the other) Now that it's negative ground do the headlights shine in your eyes at night? I must know! All my troubles are Rover Bill Adams 3Dmentia Video Animation 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" " One of these days I'm going to have this thing melted down and hammered into a coffin, because when they lay me out it will be THIS son of a bitch that put me in it." From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Fri Jan 5 10:25:39 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 10:25:39 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: intro & request accessory info John from Hong Kong asked about accessories for Defender. >From '87 110 parts manual: Gaiter kit RTC3826 shouldn't be too expensive (1 hose clamp per side also needed). Bonnet mounted spare - there are 15 parts items listed to do this but 9 of these items are rivets, bolts, washers etc. The main parts are: MUC2443 Plate, MUC6418, MUC6419 Reinforcement channels, MRC4619 Buffer, MUC2442 Clamping Plate, MUC2440 Retaining Plate for spare wheel. Also, from the APPEARANCE in the parts man it looks like you don't need to dismantle the swivel hub to get the gaiters on. James Carley Sydney Australia '85 110 From CORD5@aol.com Thu Jan 4 18:51:04 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 18:51:04 -0500 From: CORD5@aol.com Subject: UK Rovers, 110's, etc. This is my first submission to the Land Rover mailing list. I've been on the list for about two weeks, and enjoy reading it every day. I don't own a LR, but my neighbor used to own a 88" late 60's LR. I loved driving it, but he sold it before I could offer to buy it from him. I've been noticing many submissions from readers in the UK who own Rover's. Are LR's significantly cheaper in the UK? What does a D90 or a Disco go for? Are TD's available in those models in the UK? I know that many of you are interested in the 110, and that they are rare, so here is an add I found in the Dallas Morning News for a 110 today. The ad reads as follows. "'93 Defender 110, limited edition, only 4600 miles, please call for more details. Land Rover Dallas, 11400 North Central Expressway. (214) 691-4BY4 -or- 1-800-655-8479" Hope this ad helps anybody interested in purchasing one of these rare 4x4's. Cord Campbell, Texas '90 Chevy Z71 No Rover's, yet. From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Jan 04 16:00:31 1996 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 16:00:31 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Salesmen In message <199512261903.OAA12160@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: Ok, so I'm still catching up on the Xmas email.... } Also, don't play so poor: when you add the } cost of your antiques plus parts plus repairs (time you spend times your wage } rate) they don't cost much less than a spanking new Discovery per mile. I don't know if it necessarily fair to factor my time and sweat towards the cost of my Rover. But even if I did, I don't think it would come close. All told, my SIII 88" has cost me about $10,000 in parts and purchase price. And that included buying an overdrive, winch, roofrack as well as purchasing $6,000 in parts (yes I started with a $1500 non-runner). And since I got the Rover in spring 1991 I've put 70,000 miles on it--almost 26,000 in the last year alone. Even if I took 1000 hours to work on it (which I haven't) at $15/hour, I'd only be at $25,000 which is still well below the Disco's price. Gas mileage is about the same, excepting I use cheeper 87 Octane and not 92 Octane, so the cost per mile fuelwise is about the same. So I'd have to conclude that the cost per mile is much less than a Disco. I'm working on my parts spreadsheet so maybe I'll post a real cost per mile later... Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 04 96 Jan EST 1919 Date: 04 Jan 96 19:24:40 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Fuel gauges Bruce Chicago writes re fuel gauge problems. Your ser 2 fuel gauge is not compatable with the later type fuel tank sender. The early type 12 v fuel gauge is used with the tank sender that has a small box with a removable lid on the top ,the later type instrument is supplied with 10 volts from a stabilised supply and the tank sender has a flat top with a spade connector. Watch out also for 24 voly versions of this type from the ex military vehicles. The gauges and senders can not be interchanged The latter type systems can also be identified by the fact that when the ignition is switched on the needle moves slowly into position, on the early systems the needle moves instantly to the fuel position. The fuel level systems are not polarity sensitive. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From madhugo@best.com (Hugo Madden) Thu Jan 4 17:17:41 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:17:41 -0800 From: madhugo@best.com (Hugo Madden) Subject: RE: propane heaters Just for the record, guys, propane liquefies at minus 42 (F or C, it's all the same at minus 40) _______ //_/_|__\___ \_ - ___ - _d (o) (o) From David Rosenbaum Thu Jan 4 17:21:55 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:21:55 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: VW as a gas heater On Thu, 4 Jan 1996, Tom Rowe wrote: (SNIP) > Russ writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > I VW mechanic told me some years back that quite a few VW's went up in > flames from those. This thread reminds me of a woman in my home town who had just bought a new VW bug. On the way home from the dealership, the thing ran out of gas so she and her friend walked to a gas station and brought back a can of gasoline. They opened the engine compartment and put the gas into the filler neck. When she started the engine, the whole VW became a "gas heater" (the filler neck they used was for crankcase oil). Luckily, they got out of the bug safely. From David Place Thu Jan 4 20:45:04 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:45:04 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. There was a military heater used in the Canadian Arctic that did not require electricity. Some of the units came out as surplus a few years back. A company in Winnipeg Manitoba called Princess Auto Parts on Panet Road had some of them for sale. You might want to give them a call and see if they still have some of them. They went into Military Jeeps so they should fit the Land Rover. Don't forget that Volkswagon made a heater called a Southwind which ran from the gas tank. Some of them will still be in vehicles in the wrecking yards I should think. Check with your local natural gas company, they might still supply the Southwind. Dave VE4PN From David Place Thu Jan 4 20:55:03 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 20:55:03 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: Auxiliary Heaters for anything. Dixon: You need to do a little tuning there. My 88 sits out all day at work with temps this year to -36 or so and it always stars. The secret seems to be the extra insulation under the hood and a "good" working choke. I alwas put a cup of metholhydrate in my gas as well. If you do plug in I think a battery blanket is just as important as a block heater. Batteries at -20 are very low efficiency. There is always the crank to just turn over the engine before you use the starter. This cuts the oil enough to get some load off the starter. In Edmonton one winter when we set a record for the longest period below freezing in the city's history, I used a railroad lantern under the hood at night just to keep the frost out. I never had a problem starting. Dave VE4PN From David Place Thu Jan 4 21:02:30 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:02:30 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: bulb holders for SerII Does anyone know a source of new lamp sockets for the instruments in the SerIIA? The PO who had mine cut them up so they would take American push in bulbs. Of course they don't make good contact now and I would like to replace them. Dixon, maybe you could put an ad in the OVLR for me for these. If someone has a wiring harness they are cutting up I would love the lamp sockets. Radio Shack replacments just don't make the friction fit needed to do the job correctly. Dave VE4PN From Inkornoink@aol.com Thu Jan 4 21:48:56 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:48:56 -0500 From: Inkornoink@aol.com Subject: 110's Hemmings Motor News has several D110's listed for January ... four, if I remember correctly. The prices should start coming down.....supply and demand. (Hoping!) Hank Gregory 1990 RR c (Moby) From Duncan Brown Thu Jan 04 21:58:54 1996 Date: Thu, 04 Jan 1996 21:58:54 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: SII engine oddities > A question was emailed to me about SII petrol engines, thought I'd > share the reply for anyone about to start a rebuild on a SII engine. All that stuff he said, plus: The head's pretty whacked compared to the later ones- -- 7:1 compression (but still not the same as a IIA 7:1 head!) -- two-piece rocker shaft -- different spacing of rocker stands Duncan, who ran in to all this when he tried to drop an 8:1 head in his original engine but keep the same rocker gear... From "Gerald" Thu Jan 4 21:48:49 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 21:48:49 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Headlight guards Anyone here actually seen a headlamp broken by a rock or branch? Was a headlight guard in place? Was the guilty object identifiable? How big was it? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From John Brabyn Thu Jan 4 19:34:53 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 19:34:53 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Four Wheeler of the Year The February issue of Four Wheeler Magazine is out -- wih their Four Wheeler of the Year competition. Last year the Discovery won, and the year before it was the Defender. This Year the new Range Rover was one of the nine contestants but only came third -- behind the Chevy Tahoe (2nd) and the Jeep Grand Cherokee (first). Interesting write-up. It was fairly clear the RR was better than all others in severe off-road conditions except for noticeable tire harshness on fast rough roads. It was also notable that for the first time in any Range Rover comparison I've seen, the RR did not come first in ride quality, due to the low profile tires and stiffer suspension more tuned to the street. With one of the lowest power to weight ratios of the contestants, it also didn't win any points for acceleration. Another interesting comment was that although it overcame all obstacles effortlessly, it has no underbody protection from off-road hazards; (does it even have a skid plate on the fuel tank?) It seems that in order to win this contest, the Solihull folks might have to come up with more horsepower (which the 4.6HSE, not tested, has) AND a more obvious superiority off-road, AND a better ride on rough surfaces (whereas the 4.6HSE has a harsher ride due to even lower profile tires). Food for thought...... John Brabyn 89RR From Simon Barclay Fri Jan 05 14:52:00 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 14:52:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: Headlight guards I've had plenty of headlight guards broken by rocks, birds (usually galahs) and 'roos on Range Rovers over the years and can guarantee if the guards weren't there the headlamp would be gone and probably the indicators and side lights. In one case last year I had a Cibe driving light (with its cover on) shattered by some dry mud flying off a 4WD going the other way - split the cover in half as well!! I travel around 20,000 kms per year, mainly on country roads, (both sealed and dirt or gravel) and would replace the headlight covers on average twice a year (and glue them together just as often). They are around $78 Oz and thats a lot cheaper than replacing all those expensive coloured bits of plastic on the front corners!! Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Jan 4 23:07:30 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 23:07:30 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Military Vehicles Michael Carradine writes: >"Army Motors" and "Supply Line" are published by the Military Vehicle >Preservation Association... The president of that organization is a member of ROAV and lives in Richmond. One of his many vehicles is a beautifully-restored NATO 109. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 4 96 Jan EST 1920 Date: 4 Jan 96 20:01:46 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? I was thinking about this this evening, and my spec. books didn't have an answer for me. Okay: 2.25L engine Would a significant performance difference be seen with either head? Reason I'm asking is that I managed to acquire a 7:1 head for my beast that had been Stellite-converted, and my old boy's presently got an 8:1 head on his engine. I can't see as it would make a helluva lot of difference, and none of the manuals or catalogues mentions a significant change. Opinions? -ajr From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Thu Jan 4 22:33:44 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 22:33:44 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Electrical problems with 1967 109" NADA Wes Newman asks... >Need help.... >I need to find a short...I think. Tried to start my 1967 109 the >other day and the battery was dead... charged it and the Rover ran .....snip..... >I know there's a short but how do I find it. - Assuming your battery will keep a charge and your charging system is doing the job.. If there is a short, your ammeter should show a discharge. But, if it is a high resistance short, the ammeter may not be sensitive enough to show the fault. You could disconnect a battery cable and use a multimeter set to measure amps between the battery and battery cable. If you see a current drain there, disconnect things one at a time until you find the cause. It would help to have a wiring diagram to follow, assuming your wiring is all standard. Check the condition of the wiring harness where it is secured by the metal clamps. Over the years the vibration can cause the cloth insulation to wear and the wires may get exposed. If you find and worn spots, repair them as best you can and at the very least, replace the metal clamps with plastic ones. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1From "Steve Reddock" Fri Jan 05 04:04:19 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 04:04:19 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Fun Days & cretins As observed the fun day at Tixover was marred by the usual cretins. I always turn up first thing and leave by about lunch time to avoid them. The whole place is usually quieter then. There where two in particular at Tixover, both trailered LRs there. One had 18" wide tyres that meant it wouldn't fit on the trailer so it sat up on the edge rail and overhung. Very safe. His mate had a V8 lightweight with maxi cross type tyres. He also seemed to have a throttle problem (or perhaps it was a grey matter prob.?). Warming up the engine consisted of 5 minutes at 15000 rpm, or at least that is what it sounded like. He then screamed around at a frightening pace. Meanwhile his mate with the tyres got stuck on a steep downhill. That's literally on the steep bit. I have no idea how, surely gravity would have intervened. The solution was to drive the other one into the back of it to bump it down the hill. This was proceeded by a display of how not to spin a LR round to line up with another car. You'd think with all the practice he would have got simple things like spinning a car sorted... When matey finally moved down hill there was a frightening noise. As he crawled past me I saw that the front prop was broken. Even I grease things before they get that bad. There was a third cretin as well, this time on a trike. His party piece seemed to be screaming around the car park by the burger van on two wheels, dodging pedestrians, etc. Why is it every time a trike or quad arrives at these things they always travel faster than the cars by at least 100%? It's not as if they are two wheelers and would fall over if they went too slow. There where similar ice breaking problems to Metherington. Except you could spot the cars that had done it by the panel damage to the front end... The front wheels drop through the ice then the bumper went under the ice and the nice bendy panels around the rad & lights would hit the end of the sheet of ice. Normally the ice won. By the time I left traffic jams where a real problem. Everywhere you tried to go involved waiting for someone to get out of your way. There was a 2CV there as well. Apparently he left after breaking one of his diffs... Yep it was a 4x4 2VC. It was surprisingly competent as well. Have fun, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From Tom Stevenson Fri Jan 5 10:05:18 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:05:18 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Headlamp guards I had one headlamp smashed by stones from a road-gritting wagon last year, before I had got around to fitting the guards. Their only drawback is that cleaning the salt & road grime from the headlamps requires a bit more thought. I now have stick with a rag mop on the end of it. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Danny Phillips Fri Jan 5 10:20:13 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 10:20:13 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: re:lamp guards. dear all, i am just dropping this note to the chap about lamp guards. i have a wrap round bull bar (roo or brush guard) on my disco with thin metal bits to protect the lights. just before xmas these were a god send as i was following a lorry that flicked up a stone and it hit the front of the car with quite a noise, as i was only about 2 miles from home and all my lights were still working (i guessed with out getting out) i pressed on home. when i got home and checked, yes they were all working, but lodged and well stuck into these guards was a flipping great peice of tarmac. god alone knows what mess that would have made of my lights and or wing (i had to used a hammer to get it out) if the guards had not been there. with all the crap being written about bull bars here in the uk, i tell people i have them to protect my car when off road, now they are protecting it on the road with the state of our british roads. i am now trying to find a mesh type cover for my spot lights as these are quite exposed. anyway hope you all had a good xmas. danny From Mark Perry Fri Jan 5 05:09:54 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 05:09:54 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Perry Subject: heaters and such It's too true about getting all the 90wt to turn, even after the beast starts.(80W90 actually) It was -32 C here in Winnipeg when I left work about midnight. The IIA was plugged in with a circulating-type block heater. Engine (with 10W40) fired up after a few seconds cranking with about 2/3 choke out, smoothed out running after about a minute. Getting moving was the tough part, like driving with the parking brake on for the first few minutes, not to mention the 'square' tires, and ultra-stiff shocks. Things smoothed out after a few minutes and after a few more minutes, the Kodiak heater was keeping me toasty warm, despite near absence of door seals, etc. .(Of course, I'm dressed for winter, too) That's with a radiator muff, so engine temp gets up to normal range after about ten minutes or so. This is typical Prairie winter driving, but Dave Place's battery blanket suggestion is a good one, too. I think I have one kicking about the garage. BTW, the taxis, and many fleet vehicles run on propane here, and I don't think freezing is a problem for them. Also, I realize I have one of those Series II manifolds with the upward angled outlet out in the garage, and some other SII bits. If anyone's desperately seeking such, let me know. Cheers, Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Fri Jan 5 03:50:14 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 03:50:14 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? Al "Just gotta tear something apart" Richer asks... >2.25L engine Would a significant performance difference be seen with either head? >Reason I'm asking is that I managed to acquire a 7:1 head for my beast that had >been Stellite-converted, and my old boy's presently got an 8:1 head on his >engine. - Come on Al! That 8:1 head practically turns your Rover into a Formula racer! (with the aerodynamics of an upright piano...) Welll... the lower compression head will let you do things like run the engine on kerosene.... Other than that, I dunno. Cheers Mike From "barnett childress" Fri Jan 5 7:10:54 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 7:10:54 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Defender Quest for more heat Hi All, Hope this will help some of you fellow Roverites out there suffering from frozen heinies. Rover's North sells a radiator muff for the front of defenders that is supposed to DRAMATICALLY, (their words) increase the heaters output by letting the engine operate in it's normal temperature range. This would be a much simpler thing to do than installing another type of heater but I don't know if it would fill all of your needs. The unit is well made and attractive. It costs around $40. P.S. -15C at my house this morning (with wind chill) in Sturbridge, MA.! Frozen ASS in MASS! Barnett 95 D90 From "Tom Rowe" Fri Jan 5 06:23:48 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 06:23:48 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: heaters and such On those *really* cold days when the beast didn't want to move, like having grease instead of 90W, I always started out in low range until things lossened up a bit. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From LTC Larry Smith Fri Jan 5 7:19:51 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 7:19:51 EST (1219Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Oil Filters and Headlight Covers To all, There were a couple of postings earlier in the week about oil filters for Discoverys and perspex headlight covers. FWIW, my Series has been converted from the "sump" style oil filter to a spin on. When I got the truck, the PO was using original LR filters. I crossed the PN and got the filter for Range Rover V8s. Here are the numbers I got: Purolator - HP1 or L39001 AC - HD222 FRAM - HP1 Motorcraft- FL-1HP WIX - 51622 AutoZone also sells Deutsch brand filters, with one for RR V8s. Don't have a number yet for them. The HP1 from what I can find out is a high performance (flow and filtration) version of the PH1. While the cans will interchange, I don't think the bypass springs inside are the same and would not go with the standard grade filter. Yesterday or the day before, someone posted a note about perspex headlamp guards. If you want to protect the lamps without spending the bucks, you might want to get a copy of the Gritot's Garage Catalog. (1-800-345-5789) They list peel and stick "Protective Shields" for headlamps that supposedly will stop a pellet rifle shot at 20 feet. Comes in three sizes - trim to fit. I have no connection with them - just provided for your consumption. 'til later, Larry From "barnett childress" Fri Jan 5 7:53:24 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 7:53:24 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Headlight guards Gerald, I had a headlight and a windshield taken out last summer and I wasn't even off-road! A semi passed me and some stones fell out of the trailer, bounced off of the pavement and struck my D90. I had a hole punched thru the left headlamp and three nice divets in the windshield. If I would have had some type of lamp guards in place I know the headlamp would have been spared. Actually this was a great excuse to replace my headlamps with the HELLA's! Barnett 95 D90. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 5 96 Jan EST 1908 Date: 5 Jan 96 8:21:45 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? >Al "Just gotta tear something apart" Richer asks... Who, me? If it stops breaking, I'll stop tinkering...8*) >>2.25L engine Would a significant performance difference be seen with either >>head? >Come on Al! That 8:1 head practically turns your Rover into a Formula racer! >(with the aerodynamics of an upright piano...) If I can pass people on the highway, I'm happy.....8*) Thank you, Mister Overdrive.......8*) >Welll... the lower compression head will let you do things like run the >engine on kerosene.... Other than that, I dunno. onsidering how good the damned oxygenated useless gas is, this might be an option...8*) Actually, amusingly enough, I ran across the answer 10 minutes after I sent the message, in of all places the Rovers North catalogue. It says there's a 4HP difference between the two. Considering the 8:1 head probably isn't in the greatest of shape, it'll cancel out... Cheers Mike From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Fri Jan 5 15:39:37 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:39:37 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: AFRICA TOUR You guys thought that you had troubles with majordomo ! I havent received anything since the 11th of December. I eventually re-subscribed and that solved the problems. Is there anyone in SA or abroad who would like to join me on a four month trip from Pretoria, South Africa to London, UK (full trip or a part of it) in his/her own vehicle. No major plans are set yet. I plan to leave early January 1997 in a SIII Turbo Diesel Camper. Please e-mail me for any info or questions. bcotton@lia.co.za PS: The guy who had asked for info on the hydraulic Winch please mail me too. Cheers :-) From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Fri Jan 5 08:43:00 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 08:43:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: Re: Disco ABS Effectiveness Good explanation of ABS from the anonymous poster :-). I am not sure how the "All-Terrain" aspect of LR's "All-Terrain ABS" comes into play except that it is 4-channel, 4 hi/lo, Forward/Reverse. BTW: My '95 has 4 channel ABS. >From: NADdMD@aol.com >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 09:58:33 -0500 >Subject: Re: Disco ABS Effectiveness ... Plenty of ABS tech stuff... From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Fri Jan 5 08:44:00 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 08:44:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: re: Noise in driveline Yesterday, a gentleman posted a long cocos about some mods he made to his Discovery. One of the things he mentioned was that he was now hearing noise in the driveline. Off the top of my head, I would guess the extra lift and new diffs may have done it. I'm not a mechanical engineer so take my advice with a grain of salt. The prop shafts on the Discovery are already at fairly inclined angle due both to the short wheelbase and tucked up transfer case. When the shaft turns when at an angle (i.e. UJ is not in line) the output of the shaft to the diff has an eliptical power curve. The stock diffs should have enough slop in it to absorbe this variation so that the vehicle's momentum and engine output are not fighting each other. The combination of lifting the vehicle and putting in new diffs (potentially with less play in it) would cause the prop shaft to be under stress. It could of course be nothing more than an out of whack UJ but if you still have the factory diffs, you might want to experiment by swapping them back in. This is probably easier than un-lifting. BTW: I was also looking at giving My Discovery a 2-3" lift to get it more in line with the Defender's clearance. So I'll be curious to see your resolution. Cheers, -Christian From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Fri Jan 5 06:23:14 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 06:23:14 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? Alan, raising the compression level has always been known as one of the easiest ways to reliably increase HP in an internal combustion engine. In this case, its 4 HP (per fact manual). On the other hand, the lower the compression, the lower the octane needed to run an engine safely. The 7:1 head was offered to allow the Land Rover to be used in countries with poor quality petrol. Considering that most cars I have had have compression ratios around 8:7 to 9:5, it seems to me like shaving the head might be a way to coax a little more reliable HP out of the underpowered lump of iron under my bonnet. I don't know about your car, but I need every little horse I can find to get my 109 up a highway on a hill without worring about being rear ended by a car. TeriAnn From russ burns Fri Jan 5 06:56:41 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 06:56:41 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Headlight guards I have a broken headlight on My 94 D-90. The lens has about a 7 inch crack it. It still works.... Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-ROver At 09:48 PM 1/4/96 -0500, Gerald wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Anyone here actually seen a headlamp broken by a rock or branch? Was [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Gerald >g@ix.netcom.com Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From stretch@vol.net Fri Jan 5 22:25:02 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 22:25:02 PST From: stretch@vol.net Subject: re:lamp guards. There's a stand-alone product, RTC8969, which is a grille-style headlamp guard presumably for use without the brush bar. This unit bolts to body above & below the headlamp bezel; the grille is hinged for lamp cleaning. Steel wire, black nylon coated. I'm picking up a set here in Hong Kong...will advise. Incidentally, my reference here thus far is Land Rover pub#STC7592, Defender 90, 110, 130 Accessories. This brochure also lists LR clothing and personal accessories; my favorites are the LR beach umbrella (STC8730), the 6oz stainless steel flask with Java Lizard pattern leather sheath (RTC6891), and LR Teddy Bear. I was given this by local HK Rover dealer listed below: Dodwell Motors Yau Ma Tei Street Kowloon, Hong Kong tel: 852 2713 0302 They don't handle Defender, but happily order parts. Very courteous, very patient...goes a long way, given the language barrier. regards From Ray Harder Fri Jan 5 08:58:39 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 08:58:39 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: re:Defender Quest for more heat On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, barnett childress wrote: .> Hope this will help some of you fellow Roverites out there suffering from .> frozen heinies. Rover's North sells a radiator muff for the front of .> defenders that is supposed to DRAMATICALLY, (their words) increase the .> heaters output by letting the engine operate in it's normal temperature .> range. the rednecks here in midwest usa (me included) use a cut-to-fit piece of cardboard -- somehow stuffed into a crack on the valence and held in by the force of oncomming wind. looks quite studly and really makes a difference.... ray harder (61 siia -- 88 (lulu)) From Trefor Delve Fri Jan 05 15:03:00 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 15:03:00 GMT From: Trefor Delve Subject: Re: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? All, On the subject of head swaps and performance (not LR unfortunately). I swapped a standard Austin mini head with a CR of about 8.5 (if my memory serves me well) for a head with a CR of 11 (or there abouts). The performance differences was exceptional. The downside though. It must have stressed the engine as 6 - 8 months later the engine expired. (Live fast, die young as someone once said). Regards Trefor tdelve@nectech.co.uk From "barnett childress" Fri Jan 5 10:07:25 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 10:07:25 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:pull pal Bob, Couldn't get your address to work so I had to post this on the list. Yes I am a BSROA member and I live in Sturbridge, MA. In between club events and rally's I do most of my off-roading on power and gas line tracks around my home. There is also some great off-roading around the Mohawk trail that I just read about in a recent 4WD mag. Regards, Barnett From russ burns Fri Jan 5 07:06:56 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:06:56 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: re: Noise in driveline I added 2 to 3 inches of lift to my R-Rover, and my drive train has a vibration at 65 MPH. I believe it is from the lift. I plan to install some normal spring when the temp. gets more hospitable Russ Burns 91 R-ROver 94 D-90 >Yesterday, a gentleman posted a long cocos about some mods he made to his >Discovery. One of the things he mentioned was that he was now hearing noise [ truncated by lro-digester (was 41 lines)] >My Opinions are my own and you may borrow them, if you wish, >but I want them back when you're done. Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "John C. White, III" Fri Jan 5 07:11:15 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 07:11:15 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco electrics manual price diffrences I got this manual from the dealership for US$37.77 (plus tax), but the part number is listed on the receipt as LJAEMENL95. The manual itself has the part number Bill listed in his post, below. Does anyone out there know what the LJA... manual would be? Maybe the dealer made a mistake, and I made out like a bandit. Heh, heh, heh, heh. John At 10:26 03.01.96 -0500, crash@merl.com wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] >on the same part (LR part# LJBEMENL95) > -Bill Yerazunis > slush-encrusted 94 Disco (and I wave!) From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Jan 05 10:16:51 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 10:16:51 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: LRW SandY writes... Got an advance copy of of February's Land Rover World today. Check out pages 44 through 47 for scenes from the Mid-Atlantic Land Rover Rally. (...and if you look real close in the circular photo behind Dennis Perzynski, you can see Dave Bobeck.) Too bad they didn't choose one of the more photogenic club members... Anybody know where I can buy LRW in DC or VA? I can only get LROI. OR mybe someone can buy a copy and fwd it to me? Thanks Dave "ROAV Poster Child" Bobeck 72 SIII "Green Car", now IIa/III hybrid (IIa Grill) From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Fri Jan 5 10:30:33 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:30:33 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Ace ventura Rovers, you can't murder the already dead Dear All, A recent email said the Ace Ventura MURDERED Rovers. Well in the we must save them all way of thinking maybe they did. But the real story is that all but two of the 88's supplied to the movie company were utter garbage! How do I know you ask, well I'm the one who built them. When the call came in from the movie company, we had two weeks to put together 5 88's. My memories of those two weeks are a blur of welding on flat steel rear cross members, cut to look like a real cross member from the back, trying to get engines to run just a few more miles, making entire door bottoms and bulkhead floors from bondo and cardboard, paint jobs that covered everything, etc, etc. Two of the 88's were even RHD versions that were converted to LHD. Man those trucks were a mess. Three of them still survive, a gentleman in SC bought them. The majority of the trucks were non running wrecks we pulled out of our field, not one of the ones that got wrecked cost more than 300 dollars. So if you thought nice Rovers were being sacraficed, I've got quite a few more like it here rusting into the ground that are the same quality. BTW, the film was shot in Texas and South Carolina too, not Africa. Movie magic can do wonders, I guess it fooled you. Mike Smith, ECR From Sanna@aol.com Fri Jan 5 10:37:47 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:37:47 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? >>raising the compression level has always been known as one of the easiest ways to reliably increase HP in an internal combustion engine. In this case, its 4 HP (per fact manual). This is true, but after putting the first 180K on Lulubelle with the factory 8:1 head, and driving the last 150K with a rebuilt RN 7:1, I'd swear she's running better now. Go figger'. If you want to pick up a cheap 4 horses, remove the engine fan. Especially in the winter, it makes no difference to the engine temp. I fitted my IIa with a 8 bladed fan 20 years ago when I was working summers in Death Valley, but lately I've just been leaving it off. Even in summer, on the road - not idleing, it seems to keep coolenough. - Tony From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 5 96 Jan EST 1910 Date: 5 Jan 96 10:29:23 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: re:Defender Quest for more heat ray harder (61 siia -- 88 (lulu)) says: >the rednecks here in midwest usa (me included) use a cut-to-fit >piece of cardboard -- somehow stuffed into a crack on the valence >and held in by the force of oncomming wind. looks quite studly and >really makes a difference.... It's only studly if you use the bottom of a Bdweiser case - with the can indentations to the outside... 8*) Actually, I'm in the process of sewing one for my 109. It's going to be made of NATO-camouflage denim - quite he survivalist chic... And with that a question, while I'm wasting bandwidth: I was planning on mounting snaps on the grille for the muff to snap to. Any good ideas on how? I really don't care for the look of the wing bolts ha Kingsury and thelike use, and was thinking of simple double-washers with a bolt through the snap. opinions? aj"Pardon the tpos - hands are stiff today"r From Dixon Kenner Fri Jan 5 10:47:13 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:47:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? On Fri, 5 Jan 1996 TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote: > On the other hand, the lower the compression, the lower the octane needed to > run an engine safely. The 7:1 head was offered to allow the Land Rover to be > used in countries with poor quality petrol. My owners manual says that the engine is good down to 63 octane. From JEPurnell@aol.com Fri Jan 5 11:00:34 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:00:34 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: RN Offroad School In a message dated 96-01-02 20:21:28 EST, you write: From Christopher Boese Fri Jan 05 08:33:03 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 08:33:03 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Salesmen Wdcockey@aol.com wrote: > Just a thought. Both our SII's were originally purchased by professionals > with good incomes who used thame as second vehicles and never took them > off-road seriously. > Do I detect a similarity to many current Discovery and RR owners. Not with me. I have only the one plushmobile, and I go off-road whenever I can. I work for government, so my income is less-than-yuppie-ish, but I wanted the best vehicle money could (be borrowed to) buy. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 beluga black Discovery V8i From JEPurnell@aol.com Fri Jan 5 12:07:06 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 12:07:06 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: That murdererous letch, Ventura. . . In a message dated 96-01-05 03:54:01 EST, you write: >Am I the only one who mourns the death of LR's or are there >others like me who suffer such mental torture. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >Bye for now, keep up the damn good list. >Stu and EMMA ( a '76 SWB Ser III V8- Love of my life) I'm with you on this one Stu. After spending 8 years in the "service" side of Hollywood, finding cars for movies, fixing whatever broke during shoots, etc..., the movie people obviously do not care about the impact of wrecking limited availability vehicles. In fact it has the aura of "big Movie-dom" if you can get in the budget to wreck expensive, fancy, or rare stuff. The only benefit I ever saw, other than a paycheck, was once in awhile getting ahold of a carcass after they were through with it. I trailered an old Corvette away one day and never had to return with it. I parted it out, as it would have required a SALVAGE title after what they did to it. Never saw any LRs though. So maybe it's only gonna be Ventura that wrecks them. Lets hope the practice doesn't spread... Is it any consolation Stu if it turns out to be true that the LRs they wrecked were not approved by USEPA to be operated on USEPA approved roads stateside, or EEC-EPA for use EEC-side (is that possible?), so their demise will not realistically affect your ability to maintain your vehicle? Didn't think so. sorry. John. From ChrisF6724@aol.com Fri Jan 5 13:01:13 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 13:01:13 -0500 From: ChrisF6724@aol.com Subject: Testing This is just a test to see if this is where I post. Thanks, Chris '73 88 Series 3 From "barnett childress" Fri Jan 5 14:40:38 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 14:40:38 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: Test Hello all, Just a test to see if my attempt at LR art comes thru. (Hey it's Friday!) Cheers, Barnett (95 Def90) _______<| |===/|=\=| /=\|__/_|__\|====\ |=||====|===|=====| \=/| __ | | __ |() \/ \|___|/ \/ (::) (::) (We don't need no stinkin' roads!) From Dixon Kenner Fri Jan 5 14:47:13 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:47:13 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: That murdererous letch, Ventura. . . On Fri, 5 Jan 1996 JEPurnell@aol.com wrote: > etc..., the movie people obviously do not care about the impact of wrecking > limited availability vehicles. In fact it has the aura of "big Movie-dom" if > you can get in the budget to wreck expensive, fancy, or rare stuff. There is the off-side to consider. One movie where generally someone adds up the value of the vehicles destroyed is the Mini cult film "The Italian Job". The Lamborghini destroyed in the beginning of the film was real (albeit if you look closely the one dumped into the river gorge is missing engine tranny etc) because they costed out a mock-up. The real was far cheaper. So an E-type or two was crushed. They may be valuable now, but as recently as 12 years ago I could pick one up from a wreckers fro a couple thousand dollars. Many times, the vehicles destroyed are not worth much in the first place. Just like the 88's destroyed in Ace Ventura. The cost of restoring the 88's just didn't make it feasible. You basically have to build an entire vehicle. They did make a lot of Land Rovers in the past... You can't apply "rare" to a corvette, and the movie industry isn't going to bother with the truely rare vehicles because the audience just won't know what it is. Only if the audience will say "ooohhhh, rare!" will they go and destroy something like that. They are interested in bottom line only. Besides, they did buy the vehicle. If they want to let it sit and rot, or blow it up, it is their perogative. I can think of a LR prototype nearby rotting away. A real shame, but I nor anyone else owns it & the owner will not sell. From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Jan 05 15:08:09 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 15:08:09 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: looking for 109 Hi everybody. Couple of items here: First off, anybody east of the Mississippi selling a 109 SW? Condition is relatively unimportant but decent body panels would be nice. A local guy here needs it for a frame-over and doesn't have net access so I volunteered to post it for 'im. Any leads appreciated. 2nd. Has anybody a method of removing a "brand new" reservoir from a split system brake master cylinder. (Don't ask) I understand the old ones usually break and the owner in this case doesn't want to buy *another* one. 3. Its unfair this LRW thing, now that you all know what I look like, I can't say mean things or write smart-ass responses to your sincere questions. 4. Dixon K.- The answer to the question raised in our conversation today is that the Serial # does begin with 259, as does the Serial # on another local Series 3 that is still owned by its original owner. His ends with 8 something something and mine ends with 5 something something, both followed by the letter A. He bought his in October'72, and it was released by the factory in May '72, and as far as he knows, his dealer picked it up at the dock in complete form. He also thinks it's unlikely that many CKD's were shipped here new. So what gives? Could it be (gasp) that there is incorrect info on the FAQ? Possibly just something overlooked, I would imagine, an honest mistake, right? Mike Carradine please no comments, Thank You. 5. Hi Ron. I know you're lurking out there. Everyone say hi to Ron please. One of the founding members of the Burleith LRC. All help is welcome and guaranteed to not evoke wise-cracks or other nasty reactions from me. Regards Dave "Internationally Known" Bobeck SIII SWB "Green Car" (now with IIa Grill) From Dixon Kenner Fri Jan 5 15:41:42 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:41:42 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: looking for 109 On Fri, 5 Jan 1996, Bobeck, David R. wrote: > 4. Dixon K.- The answer to the question raised in our conversation > today is that the Serial # does begin with 259, as does the Serial # > on another local Series 3 that is still owned by its original owner. 925 prefix is CKD. You were unsure which the prefix was. > his dealer picked it up at the dock in complete form. He also thinks > it's unlikely that many CKD's were shipped here new. So what gives? With LR, who knows what was shipped where. Taylor in his little history project has found all sorts of anomolies. > Could it be (gasp) that there is incorrect info on the FAQ? Possibly > just something overlooked, I would imagine, an honest mistake, right? I don't think 259 is in there. Have to check. An oversight... :-) > Dave "Internationally Known" Bobeck > SIII SWB "Green Car" (now with IIa Grill) So you figure that the metal grille will slow down the toppling jack-all better than the plastic one managed? :-) Rgds, From "Tom Walsh" Thu Jan 4 13:38:40 1996 Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:38:40 +0000 From: "Tom Walsh" Subject: EMU shocks/springs/DISCO's/D90's Does anyone out there have any experience with old man Emu shocks and springs for a Disco? I am contemplating purchasing them very soon. I am trying to increase the heigth a tad so I may put on slightly larger more aggressive Mud Terrain type tires ( and get a little extra clearance at the same time ) What I'd like to know: How hard was it to install em. How does it affect ride quality ( both on and off road ) I beleive it will give a stiffer ride, but does this equate to a jeep like bone jarring ride when in the rough? I use the Vehicle on road to do long trips occasionally, will I be sorry? How does it affect wheel travel ( does the stiffness reduce the the Disco's generous wheel travel capability ? ) In other words: SHould I do it??? or Not??? Thanks in advance! Tomw ---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* Fluent Networks "Intelligent Networking Solutions" Tom Walsh tomw@netcom.com soon to be tomw@fluentnet.com 95 LR Disco "The Green Monster" #include *---------*---------*---------*---------*---------*---------* From Duncan Brown Fri Jan 05 16:41:47 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 16:41:47 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Looking for 109 Dave, > First off, anybody east of the Mississippi selling a 109 SW? Condition > is relatively unimportant but decent body panels would be nice. A > local guy here needs it for a frame-over and doesn't have net access > so I volunteered to post it for 'im. Any leads appreciated. I'm in Charlottesville, VA, and would still consider giving up my 109 SW that could generously be described as being "in kit form" (It does look like a complete vehicle from the outside, and does roll...) It was going to be my low-initial-cost entry into owning a 109SW, which I simply couldn't afford to do by starting with a complete running vehicle. There's a bunch of stuff missing, but it's a complete rebuildable vehicle with valid title, and for 109SW's that's getting harder to find! (Shameless plug to make you want this vehicle more! But it really is true...) Problem is, I've really hit the financial skids. I might just be able to stay out of the poorhouse without selling this thing off (so I haven't been real active in hawking it), but it's clear that it will literally be YEARS before I can even consider dumping more money into fixing it up. So it just sits. I have about $1250 into it at this point. I'd love to get that much back out again if I could, but I'm open to offers. I can be reached at home at 804-973-1369 or at work M-F at 804-978-5036 Duncan "at least I still have the 88" Brown From DucNut@aol.com Fri Jan 5 16:44:50 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:44:50 -0500 From: DucNut@aol.com Subject: Disco ABS Recently Mark Kraieski (hope the spelling is close :-{) ) writes re the above. I have place a call to LRNA engineering dept. ( a client of mine recently bought a near new county classic RR from him). In reviewing my Disco's window sticker (a '94) it specifies 4 channel ABS. It seems to me that the recent posting re a potentially unstable vehicle if the tires with greater grip are allowed to brake with full power sounds right. Incidentally, we've had our share of icy intersections lately and it seems to me that at least at slow speeds a little swiggle of the steering wheel helps to slow the vehicle even in ABS mode. Guilty of lurking too long... Keith Armstrong Des Moines, IA From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Jan 05 16:53:39 1996 Date: Fri, 05 Jan 96 16:53:39 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: 7:1 or 8:1 head - any performance difference? To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net All, On the subject of head swaps and performance (not LR unfortunately). I swapped a standard Austin mini head with a CR of about 8.5 (if my memory serves me well) for a head with a CR of 11 (or there abouts). The performance differences was exceptional. The downside though. It must have stressed the engine as 6 - 8 months later the engine expired. (Live fast, die young as someone once said). I was reading something about this last night actually. In the late sixties (this is for real now) alot of American cars particularly those of the muscular variety were made with high compression heads so they could really get the most power out of the then available 100+ octane gasoline(petrol). The lead in the gas was one thing that helped boost the octane rating. So what happens when you try to burn new, lower octane gas in the same high CR engine is that you end up with knock (I think) which is esssentially gas that gets so hot (from compression) that it creates a second ignition inside your cylinder. This plays all sorts of havoc with moving parts inside the engine, as well as rings and probably other stuff too. So maybe that's what happened. Most cars today have a CR of 9:or lower, and if you still have that 11:1 65 Chevy Malibu or whatever then you should use a lead additive or some kind of octane booster to keep your engine from wrecking itself. YMMV. Dave From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Fri Jan 5 14:11:08 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:11:08 -0800 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: Pewag chains Howdy, Some time ago there was discussion of chains for various LRs and some folks mentioned that Pewag chains were reputable so I took the liberty of dropping over to the Pewag West coast office which is here in thriving Newcastle Ca. I picked up a catalog and talked with the guy briefly. There are two locations for Pewag in the US, one here and the other in Chicago area. Apparently, the Newcastle location deals primarily in auto chain while the midwest location deals more in industrial chain. They also do quite a business in the overhead, lifting etc stuff. The factory is in Europe (Switzerland, I believe). I don't have costs because the catalog doesn't specify them: one would have to call them for quotes, but the catalog has parts. The manager didn't know specifically about the fittings for any of the LR products (gee, I don't understand that!!!). The western office can be reached at 1-800-445-2895 while the eastern office can be reached at 1-800-526-3924. The manager indicated that they will do retail direct. Unfortunately, I didn't see any chains or cables for 235/60/16 (but then don't count on me to read all the numbers correctly, chains are a new concept to me :>) Hope that helps!! -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From "Mark Talbot" Fri Jan 5 22:49:48 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 22:49:48 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Polybushes for RR Any coil sprung land Rover owners fitted the poly bush kit ? My 88 RR is in need of bushing job at the front and I was wondering what you lot thought of them, or see if anyone had fitted them ? Mark From ChrisF6724@aol.com Fri Jan 5 19:53:44 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:53:44 -0500 From: ChrisF6724@aol.com Subject: Engine Swaps? If your a "Purist", stop reading this message now, because your likely going to be offended. I reciently just purchase a '73 Land Rover Series 3, 88 with a bad engine (I haven't started calling it "The Blue Fog" for nothin ;) ). Now for the offensive part (or was that it?)... I'm going to swap in a late model, built, fuel injected Chevy V6 (approx 220+h.p.). Also being replaced will be the transmittion to a 4 speed automatic, and transfer case (unknown type at this point, but probally a Dana300). This is about where my current funding runs out.... This car will be used as a daily driver and see some of the toughest trails (and highway passes) Colorado has to offer. (it will also be a bonus to be able to keep up with traffic on the mountain interstates when the speed limit goes up...not to mention the lifting of the international driveway parking ban impossed on the Rover for oil stains) Now for the big question... Will the stock axles and diff's explode the minute I touch the accelerator? My IH Scout used to shear off the driveshafts before the axles snapped. My future plans include ARB's front and rear (ie... I don't want to invest the cash if the stock diff's shred because of my extra power...) Has anyone tried to convert to disk brakes on the front? To answer someones previous post...Mark's in Australia handles conversion kits (sold in the US by Advance Adapters and on the internet), however, they are for Holden (I think that's "Ford" in Americaneze) and are expensive. ($800 for adapter to mate Ford C4 to stock transfer case (which I don't think will take much more power)) Scottie's in the US offers Chevy conversion kits (though I haven't contacted them yet)....Or you can weld new mounts and replace it all like I plan on doing. I've heard it is highly recommend swapping the transmittion (at least the 4 spd. in Series 3's) if your going to boost your power much. Chris Fisher '73 88 Series 3 (the Blue Fog) From Landy88@aol.com Fri Jan 5 22:01:51 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:01:51 -0500 From: Landy88@aol.com Subject: PROPANE SPECS After working in the Propane industry for several years, I remember this: (approximates) Freezing is not your problem with propane. A good liquid is no good either. Small propane appliances use the vapor. Unlike gasoline, the vapor must be fed into the appliance. Gas can vaporize as it burns. Since propane appliances are regulated (pressure, not governmental), the vapor must travel to the regulator. Most appliances use a 10" WC pressure level, which is produced at about -30F to -36F. Shouldn't be a real problem though. All you need to do is get the tank pretty warm and keep it insulated....Just remember, propane tanks have no heat producing capacity, so insulation only holds in heat YOU APPLY. Is the tank to be inside the cabin? (Not legal in some places). If so, just wrap it up. Maybe a battery blanket you turn on ten minutes before firing off the vehicle.....could be set on a timer....Just get the propane up to -30F or better....should be good. From jonny@hookup.net (Jonathan M. Rosenthal) Fri Jan 5 22:48:00 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 22:48:00 -0500 (EST) From: jonny@hookup.net (Jonathan M. Rosenthal) Subject: Discovery-Stuck in the Snow I recently was stuck in a snow bank in my discover. The right front wheel was slightly in the air. No matter what gear or range I was in only the right front tire and the left rear tire spun. Is there a problem with my vehicle?? Any comments or help would be greatlly appreciated. From WAHORN@aol.com Fri Jan 5 23:10:03 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:10:03 -0500 From: WAHORN@aol.com Subject: SWAP MEET JIM & LRO, SIGN ME UP FOR THE RALLY & OR SWAP MEET IN LAKE CITY FL. I LIVE IN MIDDLEBURG FL. NEAR JACKSONVILLE FL. ASHLEY HORN 67 109 SW From Russell Burns Fri Jan 5 20:21:40 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 20:21:40 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Discovery-Stuck in the Snow That is how it works. With the center dif locked and one front and one rear wheel spinning, you are stuck. One way to hopfully get unstuck is to spin the wheels faster than 5 mph, and apply the abs brakes. This is hard on the truck, but it can get you unstuck. If you are only digging in deeper quit, and start shoveling. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > Is there a problem with my vehicle?? > Any comments or help would be greatlly appreciated. From Russell Burns Fri Jan 5 20:33:07 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 96 20:33:07 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: PROPANE SPECS I just carry a white gas single burner camp stove. I have used it for starting cold cars for 15 years or so. Seems when I was going to college 50W oil was always on sale during the winter. Having a VW bug with a severe oil leak, cheap 50w oil was very inviting. One night when the temp hit -25F the oil turned into a brick. My first attempt was to drain the oil into a pan, and warm in a cabin. This was futile as the oil was a neat hard jell. I then fired up the camp stove, and placed it under the VW motor. This worked better than expected as the oily crude on the bottem of the engine also started on fire. Careful fire managment not only warmed up the oil, but cleaned the crude of the bottom of the engine. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From jpappa01@interserv.com Fri Jan 5 20:38:55 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 20:38:55 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Misc. 1- All NAS Discos have had 4-channel ABS since launch in 1994. 2- A shame that the Jeep took 4-wheeler of the year. It is arguably inferior to any Discovery extant. I suspect that objectivity notwithstanding, Four Wheeler magazine would have been castrated had they awarded their award to Land Rover for a third consecutive year! It's a delicate balance. Land Rover should be proud to win not only two in a row, but three within 7 years!! Such a small company. So much competition. The only thing even worse (in segment) is the *newstyle* Explorer. In a recent competitive shootout sales training seminar - the vehicles compo'd w/Disco included Jeep/Ford/Isuzu/Honda/Mitsui/Toyo. A test track was set up for this test. The Ford couldn't even make it ON to the course!! Had to be yanked back. Pitiful ground clearance was given the blame. Ground clearance even worse than the already bad earlier model. Reason? New front suspension setup and steering system. Why? Marketing? They tried. Real reason is that airbag dashboard would not fit with earlier (and better - even though still pitiful) setup. 3- An interesting footnote from BSROA member Chris Hurley. He drove is SE-7 stick to the local Humvee dealership (Smyly Buick!!). They apparently pretty amazing off-road course setup. At the crest of a stupidly steep incline was a concrete barrier - designed to bottom out anything except the Hummer. Chris asked them to let the Disco try at least up to the barrier. He crawled up it and stopped in front of the barrier. The people there were stunned. Comfortable and fast too! Salesperson there stated that Disco was the only other sport utility that made it that far without a running start! 4- LRNA has exceeded its goal of 20,000 Land Rover retails for 1995! NA continues to be the largest export market for LR! That's a lot of Land Rovers. New England's deluge of snow in recent weeks has heightened demand for new and used vehicles. 5- Range Rover Classics are fast-approaching extinction. There are precious few in dealer inventory. No more are incoming to NA. It is getting to be a similar situation to Defender 90 - almost impossible to find. New or used. Demand for Classic Range Rover (predictably) is soaring. Procrastinators will soon be unable to find a Classic new or even demo model. People trying to find D90s, especially softtops may find that it's too late. Dealers that still have any unsold units are not swapping them with our dealership. cheerz Jim - where the heck have all the Rovers gone? `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Fri Jan 5 20:48:27 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 20:48:27 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Discovery-Stuck in the Snow > I recently was stuck in a snow bank in my discover. The right front wheel > was slightly in the air. No matter what gear or range I was in only the > right front tire and the left rear tire spun. > Is there a problem with my vehicle?? I assume this is a serious question... right? A differiential is a device that not only turns the rotating power 90 degrees but it applies differiantial power to the axles. On a corner, one tyre turns faster than the other, The Diff is designed to apply power to the side that has less resistance on a corner, the outside wheel, so that the inside wheel isn't trying to break the axle & bouncing about trying to turn in place. When a tyre looses traction, the diff thinks that tyre is the outside tyre on a corner & all the energy from the drive shaft is fed to the spinning tyre. So all it takes is one spinning tyre on the front & one on the back to stop a 4X4 dead in its tracks. You can get two toys to combat this: Limited slip Diff. - This does not allow all the energy to go to just one axle, but always has a limited amount going to the one with the highest resistance. British Pacific just started carrying a new limited slip diff. lockers - This locks the diff so an equal amount of energy goes to each wheel whenever the diff is locked. When its unlocked, the diff acts normally. You can normally lock & unlock it from the drivers seat. You don't want to be turning circles on hard surfaces whith the diff locked if you value your diff & axles. ARB makes a locker currently in vogue. Many people put lockers or limited slip diffs at both ends. This gives you the very best traction. If you upgrade just one end, which you do is optional, but people seem to like putting lockers on the front & I think the rear is the favorate spot for a single limited slip diff. Still assuming that this was a serious question, TeriAnn From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Fri Jan 5 20:54:31 1996 Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 20:54:31 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Discovery-Stuck in the Snow ----------------------------- Begin Original Text ----------------------------- One way to hopfully get unstuck is to spin the wheels faster than 5 mph, and apply the abs brakes. This is hard on the truck, but it can get you unstuck. If you are only digging in deeper quit, and start shoveling. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- For those of us poor series owners without ABS, lockers or limited slip diffs, its time to put something under the slipping wheels to help give them traction, or to spool out the winch. Or on the other hand, get on the cellular phone & call AAA towing TeriAnn From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sat Jan 6 00:13:52 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:13:52 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Pull pals Barnett Childress asks about Pull-Pals. While I have not used one, we gave one away as a prize at last year's Mid-Atlantic Rally. The chap who won it used it *four* times in the next month. Anyway, it is a well-made device, available in several sizes (i.e., weights). Functions kinda like a CQR or Bruce anchor if you're into sailing. The only time he said it has trouble 'setting' is in real loose sand. "The right tool for the right job." -Mr. Natural Great...4-12" of snow forecast, and the rear frame still hasn't been welded back on.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sat Jan 6 00:13:56 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:13:56 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Heaters and not Following the thread on auxillary heaters, many years ago (before I fitted the block and battery heaters) I was skiing in northern Vermont and it dropped to -40 overnight. *Everything* solidified. Not even a peep out of the battery. Gearbox was so solid, I couldn't shift out of second. (Moral: park in neutral). A guy who parked his pickup in a heated garage dragged me 1/3 mile before the wheels started turning. By 1/2 mile, it fired. I drove to town and bought a block heater. On another trip to the same ski area (this time it was only -35 but blowing 40 mph) the gearshift broke due to the extreme cold...but that's another story. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From BDaviscar@aol.com Sat Jan 6 00:54:16 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 00:54:16 -0500 From: BDaviscar@aol.com Subject: Unsicking a engine 101 Bill Adams asked: In a message dated 96-01-04 21:49:40 EST, I'd like to hear about that transmission and how you "unstuck" the engine! A Series owner can't be bothered by such trivialities as a fuel gauge Ok here is how we ( My brother and I) unstuck the motor.(we used a product called Kroil.) We started by removing the spark plugs and shot Kroil.into the cylinders left it sit for a week checked it with the hand crank ( with me on the end of it jumping up and down.) it did not move. More Kroil in the cylinders and let it sit another week. ( We could only work weekends on it.) Tested it Again and still no movement. So we got inventive we made a air fitting From "Steve Methley" Sat Jan 6 12:39:39 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 12:39:39 +0000 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: Polybushes for RR Mark writes: >need of bushing job at the front and I was wondering what you lot thought of >them, or see if anyone had fitted them ? They are twice the price, easier to fit and make the handling tauter. Apparently they don't last any longer tho', so I bought the normal type 'cos I'm a Yorkshireman (and I don't think 'taut' and 'rover' go together!). YMMV. -- Best Regards, Steve. From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Sat Jan 6 08:27:21 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 08:27:21 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Unsicking a engine 101 Bruce, Nice story. Sounds like you and Dixon have a lot i common. His first Land Rover was storred for something like 12 years before he got it. We were treated to frequent stories of how his resurection was coming along. You too might chat about your experiences. He has learned a LOT since then about Land Rovers and is probably one of our resident experts on Land Rover reserection. Good luck TeriAnn From Phil Taylor Sat Jan 6 17:53:11 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 17:53:11 GMT From: Phil Taylor Subject: Polybushes Mark Talbot wrote: >Any coil sprung land Rover owners fitted the poly bush kit ? My 88 RR is in >need of bushing job at the front and I was wondering what you lot thought of >them, or see if anyone had fitted them ? I fitted them to my Discovery about 18 months ago. They make for a slightly stiffer ride (though I fitted Gabriel gas shocks around the same time, so its ahrd to swear exactly which was more responsible), and dont compromise off-road performance as far as I can tell. Also, they are much easier to change than the standard bushes. You do need to buy the special tool for insertion/removal. If you live in the UK Ron Higgins (RH engineering) will lend you the tool. He is a genuinely helpful chap. While I'm here, Jonathan Rosenthal wrote: >I recently was stuck in a snow bank in my discover. The right front wheel >was slightly in the air. No matter what gear or range I was in only the >right front tire and the left rear tire spun. >Is there a problem with my vehicle?? This is called Cross-axling or in Official Land-Rover speak, Diagonal Suspension. There is nothing wrong with the vehicle, the driver is faulty. Phil Taylor 1973 lt/wt - Much Abused 1990 Disco V8 From JEPurnell@aol.com Sat Jan 6 13:19:20 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:19:20 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: D90 Soft top/hard top, more. In a message dated 96-01-02 20:21:14 EST, Barnett Childress writes: << Another option would be to convert your 94 to the bestop. It's easy to do, they just replace the snaps with the rail system. I don't know if it's true but I've heard that installation and removal of the hardtop can be a pain. >> Thanks Barnett for your notes. Fortunately I alread do have the Bestop, though my Defender(#1336) is a 1994 MY, I bought it very late and the only top to fit to it was the newer one. In fact, I bought it so late that the dealer had 2 1995s on the floor and was very eager to deal on my 94. I walked into a perfect situation. Regarding the fiberglass hard top, it does seem that it is not something you'll remove for the week, it sounds seasonal, which would be just fine by me. I guess I've been doing a lot of long driving with 2 people lately and it gets a little tough to carry on long coversations at normal voice levels, which is partly why I am interested in getting a ride in a D90 with the fiberglass top-to check out the differences. When solo, neither the noise or few drafts really bother me, other than sometimes not being able to understand the newscaster if they are speaking softly. Also, I am looking at a job with a 1:15 commute each way (I get to blow up boat motors...yea!) , and in that case the hardtop would be much more attractive. (though i could easily buy a freeway flyer for the commute for less than adding the hardtop, and then save the miles, when i bought the rig i told myself i will drive it no matter what, not to worry about miles, LR made the thing to move, not sit) Another point I thought of was how long can we expect the Bestops to last? I don't mean the windows yellowing, but the canvas and the stitching? Will running it in the winter reduce its lifespan, being cold stiff and flapping? Replacing the $1000 top every X years could be a factor in deciding on the hardtop. I wonder which will promote wear more: winter or summer? When I lived in Los Angeles of course you have the year round smog and sun to really deteriorate the canvas, but here in the midwest, so far, by my calculations and observations, and thermometer readings, and frozen fingers, year round sunshine is less of a problem. . . John, N9EJC 94 D90, Wisconsin From JEPurnell@aol.com Sat Jan 6 13:19:19 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:19:19 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 heating with AC option (huh!?) In a message dated 96-01-02 20:21:23 EST, Andrew Dallas writes: << I'm not overly impressed with the heating system of the D90. I do have the AC option which, I'm beginning to suspect, significantly reduces the volume of air the heating system can move. Do you have the AC option? Has any one else out there installed the AC option after-the-fact and noticed a significant reduction in heating capacity? -AD >> Others have already made this point but I have the same condions regarding the passenger side heating with the AIR COND option. The heat seems to just filter out of the stuff-trays on the dash. Heaven help you if you leave your Carmex or lip balm up there... But there is no vent for passenger feet heating any longer. The quantity from the other vents is fine, and temperature OK, just air direction is poor. JOhn, N9EJC 94 D90, Wisc. From JEPurnell@aol.com Sat Jan 6 13:19:20 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 13:19:20 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: Bimini top all season, D90 In a message dated 96-01-02 20:21:25 EST, Barnett CHildress writes: No I don't have AC. When the nice weather is here I run my D90 with the bimini top all season. Barnett. >> Barnett, what do you do in the rain? Leave door tops on? I have the full surrey I ran all the time in LA, but midwest is different. I got a note from someone in Kansas with a Def90 who got caught in the rain with a surrey top and the ECU got wet and the engine ran like it had 2 plug wires off. So I wonder if you had any rain delays...? John, N9EJC 94 D90, Wisc From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Jan 6 15:55:39 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 15:55:39 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Auto Show report The charity preview for the North American Internation Auto Show (Detroit) auto show was last night, and a mere 15,000 tickets were sold. Not quite as crowded on a reqular night. Sport-utes were very prominent and everywhere. The Land Rover stand was crowded the entire evening. The LR display is considerably enlarged and in a new location this year, between BMW and AM General (Hummer) although there was no connection with the BMW display. A jungle motif is used very effectively A ‘95 U.S. team Camel Trophy Discovery complete with mud is very prominent and a muddy Range Rover demonstrates maximum axle articulation. A D90 SW is on display alogn with several other Discos and Range Rovers. The Range Rovers are rather bland and seemed lost nexs to the Discos and D90. LRNA definately is drawing on the LR heritage at the show. There is a multi-screen video wall featuring off-road driving including CT action, the Great Divide expedition for the NA RR launch, and Mayan expedition for the NA Disco launch. More facinating was the video shown on two smaller monitors. It seemed to be compilation of highlights from LR promotion films of the last 40 years. Included were SI in a muddy trials, LR with rail wheels pulling a train as seen in John Taylor’s books, the Darien Gap Expedition, and early lightweight fully stripped and slung under a Wessex, the 110 intro, UK “comp safari”, CT, and more. Facinating. Do dealers have a copy of this? For the competition luxury sport-utes are hot and Lexus has a very mildly revised Land Cruiser and Accura has a leather trimmed and rebadged Trooper. Nothing new on the Hummer stand but their prices make D90s look cheap. Mercedes showed the All Activity Concept vehicle which is their All Activity Vehicle with 325/75-17 tires. The styling is rounded and full-time 4wd with dual range. Both V6 and V8 versions are expected. These will be built in Alabama starting in Fall of ‘97 and a price in the mid-$30,000 range is expected. This will be major competion for the Discovery among those not seeking ultimate off-road performance. The major news at Jeep is the new ‘97 TJ Wrangler which features coil spring suspension in both front and rear. The setup is very similar to the Grand Cherokee. Total articulation is claimed to be 27 in (up from 20 in) which looks like more than a stock D90 (24.6 in for UK version). Also new is the dash with dual airbags, and a new, more laid back windshield. Mosty prominent is the return to round hadlamps. A RHD example was on display. It looks like the Wrangler will be around for quite a while. Does anyone have a report from L.A. From "Mark Talbot" Sat Jan 6 23:41:39 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 96 23:41:39 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RR CD magazines Anyone know where you can get, or who makes the CD Changer magazine for a 91 County RR. I think it's a Clairon. However, I think that most of the magazines are compatible throughout all multiple CD units ???? Mark From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 06 96 Jan EST 1918 Date: 06 Jan 96 18:59:35 EST From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe From BDaviscar@aol.com Sat Jan 6 21:07:46 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:07:46 -0500 From: BDaviscar@aol.com Subject: Re: SWAP MEET In a message dated 96-01-06 14:21:20 EST, you write: >JIM & LRO, > SIGN ME UP FOR THE RALLY & OR SWAP MEET IN LAKE CITY FL. >I LIVE IN MIDDLEBURG FL. NEAR JACKSONVILLE FL. I want to know why the midwest is left out of things. I have had a love for cars & car shows for many years now. But I am tired of going to aother states for good car shows Like this one in florida. Infacted the only good car show/ swap meet I have been to in IL. is the british car show every Sept.witch but the way had ovver 600 cars at and only 19 where of Rover origine. So what is wrong why don't we have any other good car shows here or close by? Bruce Chicago From JEPurnell@aol.com Sat Jan 6 21:37:10 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:37:10 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: D90 Radiator Muff, no discernable difference with gas engine I think Barnett mentioned the radiator muff available for the Defender grills. I have one on my D90 and haven't noticed any difference in how fast I get heat, or how much, or how quickly the engine warms up. I haven't done any "timed" tests with and without the muff snapped up, but I figure if I don't notice a "seat of the pants" difference, the efficacy is lost. Possibly it would help much more on the diesels. Same heat channel. Same heat time. Holy Radiator Muff Batman. John - N9EJC 94 D90, Wisc From "Mark Talbot" Sun Jan 7 00:32:22 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 00:32:22 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Door locks freezing Anyone experienced door locks freezing on a RR or DISCO ? Mine have frozen and no amount of WD-40 will free them up. I suppose the door lock de-icer would work. According to my manual, the RR door locks have a heater built in to stop freezing !!!! Mark From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Sat Jan 6 20:30:53 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 20:30:53 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Meets ----------------------------- Begin Original Text --------------------------- I want to know why the midwest is left out of things. I have had a love for cars & car shows for many years now. But I am tired of going to aother states for good car shows Like this one in florida. Infacted the only good car show/ swap meet I have been to in IL. is the british car show every Sept.witch but the way had ovver 600 cars at and only 19 where of Rover origine. So what is wrong why don't we have any other good car shows here or close by? Bruce Chicago ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- Bruce, Life is just hard I guess. I have a long drive to Get to the Portland All British Field meet on the Labour day weekend. Half the length of California and the full length of Oregon. But like your local show, this one generally has over 600 British cars. What make this one interesting to the Land Rover crowd is that there are close to 100 Land/Range Rovers that show up. There's camping Fri & Sat evenings, A Rover club hosted Sunday breakfast for the Land Rover/Range Rover crowd, A small "off road" track and an auto jumble Sunday. Friday and Sunday nights are spend around the circled Land Rover camps chatting about the beasties. This last year we had an air portable, 5 Dormobiles, a Land Rover ambulance, a stage 1 109, Land Rover fire truck, a light weight plus some interesting hybreds. Then of course the Sunday after the Labour Day weekend is the Palo Alto British car field meet. But its only part of a day and only draws 40 or 50 Land/Range Rovers From jpappa01@interserv.com Sat Jan 6 20:32:26 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 20:32:26 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: ABS Land Rover markets its ABS system as an *all-terrain system* for the simple reason that you will retain ABS functionality with Rangey and Disco down to 3 MPH!! This primarily due to the high iterative speed of the ABS computer and the 4-channel system. A sep. speed sensor for each corner. Unlike virtually 100% of the competing sport utes, which are being billed as 4-wheel ABS. In actuality it is a clever way to hide the fact that they are really three-channel systems; one sensor for the rear axle. The Rover system is all-terrain because you can use it a crawling speeds and even if a wheel is lifted. The channels remaining in ground contact will continue to relieve wheel lockup. The other systems usually shut off at around 20mph! So, even though the cardinal rule off road is to avoid the brake pedal on steep stuff, you can use the Rover ABS system in a pinch. cheers Jim- what? Another foot of snow? `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From "John C. White, III" Sat Jan 6 21:38:57 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 21:38:57 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Salesmen I think it's fairly safe to say that the types of LROs who don't take their Rovers off road do not subscribe to any of the Land Rover Internet lists. Cheers! John '95 Discovery, epsom green, NAS 5-spd At 08:33 05.01.96 -0800, Christopher Boese wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Wdcockey@aol.com wrote: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Not with me. I have only the one plushmobile, and I go off-road whenever I can. >I work for government, so my income is less-than-yuppie-ish, but I wanted the best >vehicle money could (be borrowed to) buy. >-- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Information Services, Information Systems Security Office >'95 beluga black Discovery V8i From PurnellJE@aol.com Sun Jan 7 01:19:37 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 01:19:37 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Door locks freezing In a message dated 96-01-06 22:31:03 EST, you write: >Anyone experienced door locks freezing on a RR or DISCO ? Mine have frozen >and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >freezing !!!! >Mark Funnily enough, just tonight both my locks are frozen solid, can't get my door key in either door. May have something to do with spraying the truck off 2 days ago to get the salt and crud offa it, and that it is 9.1F out there. bbbbrrrrrrr. Have to get out the de-icer. John N9EJC 94 D90, North Pole Wisconsin PS...Hey, how 'bout the Pack! Have to admit, I envied seeing the sun. From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Sat Jan 6 22:41:53 1996 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 22:41:53 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Salesmen ----------------------------- Begin Original Text ----------------------------- I think it's fairly safe to say that the types of LROs who don't take their Rovers off road do not subscribe to any of the Land Rover Internet lists. ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- Maybe, I've certainly seen enough series Land Rovers, Defenders & Discoverys off the road, but I have only seen one Range Rover off road and that person wasn't on any of the Land Rover lists. Interestingly enough, the Disco off road drivers I see are just about all off-road newbes. But as a group they seem very game. They seem to show up at the easy & moderate trips and leave the gonzo trips to the Defenders & Series cars where chance of bending panels approaches 50% or higher and ground clearence makes all the difference. Of couse now, I avoid the gonzoest runs because I don't want to bend panels either. And if I had a new $30K+ car, I would be even more careful not to bend panels. The Disco crowd seems to be a good bunch. Now if I could just whitness some Range Rovers going off road... TeriAnn From "John C. White, III" Sun Jan 7 00:15:26 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 00:15:26 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Door locks freezing At 01:19 07.01.96 -0500, PurnellJE@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 96-01-06 22:31:03 EST, you write: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] >94 D90, North Pole Wisconsin >PS...Hey, how 'bout the Pack! Have to admit, I envied seeing the sun. Yes, how about those Packers. They may have won, but they still have to go back to Wisconsin where it's nine degrees. Cheers! John '95 Discovery (whose locks have never been frozen) San Francisco, California From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Jan 7 09:43:27 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 09:43:27 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: re:Defender Quest for more heat Al asks... >I was planning on mounting snaps on the grille for the muff to snap to. Any >good ideas on how? I really don't care for the look of the wing bolts ha >Kingsury and thelike use, and was thinking of simple double-washers with a bolt >through the snap. - Why couldn't you just use the button type snaps (male and female ends) and wrap the muff around the edges of the metal grill?? You can get these snaps at most marine supply places - usually nickle-plated brass ones - or probably less weather-resistant ones at sewing/fabric stores. Cheers Mike From JEPurnell@aol.com Sun Jan 7 13:02:44 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:02:44 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: Re: That murdererous letch, Ventura. . . In a message dated 96-01-05 14:47:56 EST, you write: > Many times, the vehicles destroyed are not worth much in the > first place. Just like the 88's destroyed in Ace Ventura. The > cost of restoring the 88's just didn't make it feasible. You > basically have to build an entire vehicle. They did make a lot > of Land Rovers in the past... You can't apply "rare" to a corvette, Good point, Dixon, it's true that some of the vehicles destroyed are in a poorer condition than restorers or enthusiasts would like to get them in. But this seemed to have been dependent on relative availability, at least in the shoots I sourced for. If the movie needed some "mood" vehicle, or a car that was supposed to impart some "aura" about the character (e.g. Bond and his underwater Lotus) cost and scarcity were usually secondary considerations, within movie industry reason anyway, and the ultimate decision as to which vehicle was usually up to someone that had no clue as to value/rarity. I might bring a couple cars I thought would work, only to have a creative-type say "not right." (And I didn't work for the BIG movies, I did only non-union independent shoots, so the budgets I was working with were smaller than things like Ace Ventura). Since I could find muscle cars easily in Southern California, like Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, these cars were always fair game, even though you might not consider them "rare" they are still sought by enthusiasts, even the not particulary special models of the breed. I could easily make a normal camaro "look" like a Z28 or otherwise "fast" rather than buying a true version. But the result was the same, one less rolling chassis for restoration or fun. This becomes more important for vehicles with low production numbers, obviously. And realistically, they aren't demolishing all the vehicles rented or bought for movies, I can remember only 3 cars I got that were for wrecking. I'll bet if we had the numbers, there would be no statistical impact on vehicle availability and movie wrecking. For me, I think it is more an emotional issue. > They are interested in bottom line only. > Besides, they did buy the vehicle. If they want to let it sit and > rot, or blow it up, it is their perogative. I can think of a > LR prototype nearby rotting away. A real shame, but I nor anyone > else owns it & the owner will not sell. And there you have the "real" bottom line. John N9EJC 94 D90, Wisconsin From JEPurnell@aol.com Sun Jan 7 13:02:38 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:02:38 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: D90 SW hardtop For fun I visited my "local" (over an hour) LR dealer since they still had a green SW on the floor. Wow, carpet! what luxury. Now if anyone is gonna start talking plushmobile, you'd better include the 90SW. I bet that one is quiet going down the road, roll up windows, sissy AT tyres :), heck, there's even PADDING underneath all that carpet! I think come summer though (Tom and Tony--there still IS a summer here isn't there????), I'd be after those aluminum pillars with a hacksaw--I'll keep the softtop version. Also, have any of you actually ridden in those inward facing 4 rear seats? I bet the conventional forward facing 2-person seat is far more comfortable, I sat in both but never rode. I truly like the flip up convenience of the normal seat, I can leave the seat there and still haul some stuff. I would never have put the radiator from the Honda Civic I'm working on in the back of the SW with that carpet and nice upholstered seats, but just threw it in the back of my rubber matted softy. And with the salt and crud of the midwest, thank LR for rubber front mats. I guess back in Calif you really only have mud to worry about, and that can come out of carpet easily. The salesman said the guy who bought the previous SW, a white one, sold his softy D90 in the paper in 2 days, and got what he paid for it new minus the sales tax, then walked in and bought the SW. He gets calls for used D90s every single day. John N9EJC 94 D90, Wisconsin LRNA, keep up the advertising, I "appreciate" the resale value... From JEPurnell@aol.com Sun Jan 7 13:02:35 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:02:35 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: D90 Check Engine Light FYI: Now for the second time my yellow Check Engine Light has "illuminated." The first time was the day before driving to Vermont from Wisconsin. I stopped in at Berndt LR in BeerTown and read the code: Out of Range Air control valve. Came back into range on its own, and no problem. I am assuming it is the same problem now, as there has been no difference in how the engine runs, idles, or anything. Only difference was this time I was towing a Honda Civic on a car dolly. I don't think that had anything to do with it though as I really didn't feel any load or engine laboring while towing the car, and I certainly have towed heavier loads without the light coming on. If I have the dealer do the 15K service, I'll have them check the code then. I did the 7.5K myself here in town at a friend's shop, and may just do the 15K too. That's the trouble with being an hour away from the dealer, but on the other hand I much prefer doing my own service work-and the distance kinda forces me to do it. I wonder if all this yellow lighting is LR getting back at me for working at CARB in Cal, the bad BAD regulator, since usually the check engine light, versus the service engine light, is more for emissions and fuel inj related problems that affect emissions. Ha Ha. . On another positive note, I wrote a letter to LRNA telling them how satisfied I was that the Service Advisor at Berndt had gotten me in the very next morning (a Friday) after the first light came on to read the code (and reset the light since nothing was wrong) on my way out of town. I had a rental trailer, room reservations, and other people waiting in Vermont, so to wait till Monday or later would have been a costly pain. LRNA sent me a letter back thanking me, and they also sent a cute little key chain with LR logo on it. It's the key fob with the two braided steel cables on it, you know, the one that will easily wear through a nice pair of wool trousers in about a week, ya, that one. John N9EJC 94 D90, Wisconsin From PurnellJE@aol.com Sun Jan 7 13:03:37 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 13:03:37 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Door locks freezing In a message dated 96-01-07 03:32:53 EST, jcwhite3@well.com (John C. White, III) writes: >Yes, how about those Packers. They may have won, but they still have to go >back to Wisconsin where it's nine degrees. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >'95 Discovery (whose locks have never been frozen) >San Francisco, California ....Ouch!.....That's cold...(or should I say mean...) > :) John Wisconsin (let's see, on a rather meager salary, I wonder if I should buy that house on the lake with the boat slip, or the one on the 10 acres of land to make my own off-road course? Hmmmm.) From kpotter@cln.etc.bc.ca (Kyle Potter) Sun Jan 7 10:47:57 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 10:47:57 PST From: kpotter@cln.etc.bc.ca (Kyle Potter) Subject: Question RE:Bugeye Hello, I live in the Interior of British Columbia, Canada, and own 6 Land Rovers. They include: '64 Series 2a swb truck (Restored) '65 Series 2a swb convertible '66 Series 2a lwb hardtop '63 Series 2a lwb station wagon (Restored) '64 Series 2a lwb station wagon '68 Series 2a lwb station wagon My Question concerns the last one. It is a long wheel based station wagon 'bugeye' with the deluxe interior and a rear galvanized bumper. I was wondering if this model is possible and where it was exported to (Canada,etc). I was also wondering if anyone has experience with putting a 3.2 or 3.6 litre Ford V-6 into a Series Land Rover. As well I was wondering if anyone has experience with headers for 2.25 engine, one of the LR has them on and I was wondering if they add any power etc. to the performance. Thanx for your time. Kyle Potter Land Rover First because Land Rovers Last!! Kyle Potter Volvo 544 x2 63,62 Volvo 122 x3 65,63,68 64 Series 2a swb truck (Restored) '65 Series 2a swb convertible '66 Series 2a lwb hardtop '63 Series 2a lwb station wagon (Restored) '64 Series 2a lwb station wagon '68 Series 2a lwb station wagon kpotter@cln.etc.bc.ca Armstrong, BC.Canada From Duncan Brown Sun Jan 07 14:21:01 1996 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 14:21:01 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Door locks freezing > >Anyone experienced door locks freezing on a RR or DISCO ? Mine have frozen > Funnily enough, just tonight both my locks are frozen solid, can't get my > door key in either door. May have something to do with spraying the truck > off 2 days ago to get the salt and crud offa it, and that it is 9.1F out > there. bbbbrrrrrrr. Have to get out the de-icer. Haven't had problems with the locks on my SII (never lock the doors!) But I cannot currently slide my windows open, because of the melted/refrozen stuff in along the whole rubber seal. We're at over 18 fluffy white inches here in Charlottesville, VA. It was over a foot when I was out at 6:30am this morning, and the Rover (with newish Trac-Edges) performed like a champ! The roads where there was only 3 inches of snow since the last plowing were a complete piece of cake, and the various turn lanes and subdivision streets with a foot of virgin snow were more challenging but never even made the beast hesitate. By the time I got home, I was leaving diff imprints between the wheel ruts in the snow in the driveway, but never even so much as a mis-step by my marvelous Rover friend. Once all the morons are done wrecking their Troopers during the daylight hours, I may go out again later on. We're supposed to get 2-3 feet of the stuff. I may have to drive my sister-in-law to DC to catch a train tomorrow, that could get interesting... Duncan PS Hey Stuart, I'll come pick you up for work tomorrow if your wife insists it's her turn for the Disco, heh heh heh... From "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com> 07 96 Jan EST 1915 Date: 07 Jan 96 15:02:36 EST From: "AMEDEO (Denver, CO)" <102505.3511@compuserve.com> Subject: Def rumors & comments 1997 DEFENDER??? Just heard rumours that the Defender may come back to the U.S. as a 1997 model year with early introduction in mid-1996.... if that's the case I am sorry for those who bought a Def 90 to make a quick buck... Other comments to recent filings; ABS the Discovery ABS is passive, not active like in the Range Rover so it's not that great. The RR ABS is in my opinion much better although I don't mind my 87 not having any. Better none than mediocre. Richard Larson: nice seeing good comments about salesmen. Terr-Ann Wakeman: thanks for positive salesman comments but why do you think RR's are not taken off-road? Many of our clients in Colorado and Wyoming do on their own and in organized dealer and non dealer trips. Also, about ground effects, did you know that the front spoiler in the RR is removable so there is no problem... I got mine off all the time. Bennet Leeds: nice comments about a dealer for a change but why do you say that you would spend $78 on a Discovery oil change and filter? We charge about $ 40 at LR Denver East so it's not out of line. And would you not prefer having a factory trained LR technician taking a quick look under your car while changing the oil and maybe detecting early a problem that a Jiffy Lube guy may not see? Benjamin Smith: O.K. the cost per mile of your Series LR may be slightly lower than a spanking new Discovery. YOU WON!!!!! Just don't get any big salary raises because that may no longer be true in the future!!! John Brabyn: So the 4.0 SE is not the 4 wheeler of the year. Big Deal! Did you drive it? It is truly wonderful, I don't care what they say. You don't want skid plates on a luxury vehicle like that? And did you look yourself under an SE 4.0 ? It's built like a tank.. It does not need skid plates, let's be real. I don't say RR's are not taken off-road but give me a break; only an idiot would take that 60k car in the type of terrain that would require skid plates on top of everything else. Power? No LR product is fast, it's not a sports car. But many people drive the automatics without downshifting so the torque stinks and it feels doggier than it is. Geoffrey Halaburt: Congratulations or your new Def SW. Did you get the Arles Blue you wanted? We did not get any in Denver yet. Hong Kong subscriber: I will be there in February. Tell us more about LR products there, and what cars the Dealer sells. Mark Kraieski: You may want to put Range Rover 205 Michelins on your Discovery. I think they are the best tires period and they will fit your rims. Regards, Amedeo Land Rover Denver East Salesman 87 RR From Sanna@aol.com Sun Jan 7 15:18:52 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:18:52 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Door locks freezing >>Haven't had problems with the locks on my SII (never lock the doors!) Actually, my IIa doesn't have locks, but if the dorrs would freeze shut I'd just climb through the canvas. However, my '89 RR is a different matter. Long ago (early '70's) I stopped expecting anything but the drive train & suspension to work flawlessly (on Lulubelle, my IIa, that is), and it seems to be the same on the RR as well. The door locks are definitly one of those problematic areas. Sometimes they all lock/unlock, sometimes they don't. In the winter the rear gate is definitely a problem since it has a catch-cup that faces upward to collect and freeze water in the lock, and '89 was in the pre-heated door lock era. I just always carry a bottle (the squeeze bottles are the best) of lock thaw with me at all times, and so far the drivers door hasn't frozen shut so I can't get at it. A preventive sqirt or two works wonders. - Tony From Chris Haslam Sun Jan 7 16:01:55 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 16:01:55 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Haslam Subject: 88 RR: Rear Seat Belt Assembly My wife and several kids managed to mash the female part (short) of the rear seat belt: the clip got crushed when they tried to put the movable seat back. Does anyone have one for sale, at a reasonable price? Part Number is RWC1673RUN. ...chris haslam 88 RR From Simon Barclay Mon Jan 08 08:53:00 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 08:53:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Parts commonality Hi there Has anyone ever heard of a book/magazine, or just a 'list' of parts that are interchangeable between models. I guess this is probably of interest more to series owners, but may be of use to others. I know from time to time clubs will print a list of parts that can be substituted from other vehicles - for example here in Oz you can use Ford 351GT universals to replace those on your RR or Holden Torana carb diaphragms for pre '86 spec RR's (though I haven't tried either). Pre '84 RR's have a tendency for the windscreen washer bottle tops to rust out and these can be replaced with the tops of medium sized vegimite jars (what else would you expect in Oz!!). But has anyone got a 'list' indicating parts commonality from early Series 1's onwards. I am restoring a '51 Series 1 and while I would like to keep things as close to factory spec as possible this just may not be practical (or cost effective???). It has a Series 2 tie rod and a 2A driving member. I believe a S3 carbie would work too! But what about distributors, or do I have to use an S1?? The diffs are Rover, are the same on 2's, 2A's??...what about the drive shafts?? Maybe there is already a webb page for this sort of thing! Any thoughts or comments would be welcomed. Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From "Gerald" Sun Jan 7 17:59:29 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:59:29 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Disco keys What is under the plastic on a Disco key? If I remove it will there be a way to put the key on a keychain? The stuff is just too thick. Now if it had a built in flashlight the way Porche's used too (still do?) . . . . -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Gerald" Sun Jan 7 17:59:30 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:59:30 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Door locks freezing Between snow storms I decided to get my Disco washed. Last week someone got the color wrong there was so much crud on it. About half an hour later the drivers door key lock froze. Other door locks work and the electronic key still works. During the car wash bunch of ice collected between the spare and the rear windshield wiper. Almost enough to break the rear wiper. Finally got a Disco to return my wave today. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Sun Jan 07 17:26:55 1996 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 17:26:55 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Series frame over assembly order Hi all, Getting ready to begin the frame replacement on my '66 IIa 88. I know a few of you have done this before, so I'd like to inquire the order you moved components. My plan was to remove most of the body (top, doors & seats came off yesterday (in -3 degree temps; back in the garage now), then do fuel tank, suspension components, engine & other drivetrain comps, electricals, and then back to body (with overlap as necessary). I'd like to hear from those experienced in doing this what they found to work best (and quickest, want to be rolling again when the weather gets nice). Thanks, tim ps - I had to leave the roof in the driveway over night. I was worried that local kids might think it to be a great sled to pull behind a car when flipped over and steal it. Its safe in the garage now, but the sled idea actually sounded kind of fun (if you're into snow like we are in Minnesota)... --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW "those safari tops are *heavy*" From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Mon Jan 8 10:57:03 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 10:57:03 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: Engine Swaps? To add fuel to Chris' fire on engine swaps and correct one minor error. Holden in Australia is owned by GM and their straight 6 engines of the 50's 60's, 70's and 80's are related to GM (I think). The most popular conversion for series LR in Oz is either a 202 CI/3.3 L or 186 CI/ 3.0 L Holden 6. These engines were in maybe 30% of all cars sold in Aust in the 60's and 70's, and are pretty bullet proof, and able to be hotted up if you want to, but in standard form are no powerhouse. I would guess that almost 30 to 50% of series2 and 3 LR in Aust have this conversion. Those with a bit more $ to spend go for Nissan 5 sp box. Nissan Caball truck 5 sp is favoured according to my local LR converter. The standard LR transfer case is supposed to be able to handle a lot more power and speed than the standard LR engine can deliver without problems. James Carley Sydney, Australia '85 110 From NADdMD@aol.com Sun Jan 7 19:14:04 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:14:04 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Re: Series frame over assembly order Tim, I have just done this exact thing. Not that I'm an expert, but what worked well for me was to remove the truck bed AFTER removing the gas tank filler hose and duct taping over the opening. Next I took off the hood,doors and fenders (an angle grinder can be invaluable). This left the car with the seat base, floor panels and dash panel. After removing the floor panels and tunnel cover, remove the seat base. I then disconnected ALL cables and wires from their respective end parts, LEAVING them attached to the dashpanel and removed the dashpanel with the sill rails. Since I was replacing the springs and shocks, I released the rearward attachment of the rear springs, took off the shocks and ground off the U bolts to the rear axle. Then I simply rolled the rear axle into place on the new frame (which had the springs partially attached). I did the same in the front, lifting the front end with a tractor (an engine hoist may work as well) This left the engine back to the speedo housing on the old chassis. It was easier to get new mounts for the engine so that I didn't have to keep the engine hoisted very long. After removing the radiator, I lifted the whole engine-to-speedo housing with the tractor (again an engine hoist would work) and moved it to the new chassis. The whole process was very straightforward, but is easier with a friend. Use lots of liquid wrench, try to use six sided sockets (to prevent rounding of corners), practice with the angle grinder, and nut splitter and keep in mind that some places have captive nuts or bolts. Good luck. Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, Maryland USA 21020 NADdMD@aol.com 67 SIIA home(410)429-4964 work(410)828-2704 From spatzek@alaska.net Sun Jan 7 15:42:21 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 15:42:21 -0900 From: spatzek@alaska.net Subject: Newbie to the group Where do I begin! I have a case of LR fever that only purchasing one will satisfy. The main problem is that up here in the Frozen North (can't say "Great White North" this year, only 8 inches here in Anchorage all winter!) LR's tend to be few and far between. I've seen one all winter and he was rather gruff and not at all disposed to chatting. My main questions are: 1)What are the real restrictions to bringing one over from Britain? I already know about the 1975 year limit if a diesel and the gas vehicle exemption of pre-68, but what about the impact standards. Or do the exemptions take care of this as well? 2)I've been looking at all the bookstores, but NOBODY carries LR Books. Could the group recommend a good text or two to get me started. I can always order if I know what books are best. 3) As to vehicle choice, I'm leaning towards something in an ex-mod type vehicle. I tend towards the lightweight diesel type, but a ex-mod LWB diesel would be ok too. I prefer diesel, better life, fuel economy and easier to get into the country. Also less to go wrong, ie plugs, points, condenser, much simpler, electically and mechanically. 4)Why ex mod? Several reasons actually, the first being price, I've seen prices for ex-mod vehicles that appear VERY reasonable. Second, I belong to the Alaska State Defense Force, (state equivalent of the Alaska National Guard) and we have outings for training and also several combined gun/vehicle shows per year. This vehicle would alternate with my Ford Bronco as a daily driver and kind of rough and ready show vehicle. I notice several dealers in LRO and LRW that claim to be importers of Military Surplus Land Rovers, any advance knowledge of past dealings with same would also be welcome. This then, my first post, please treat it and me kindly, I have much to learn! 73 (Amateur Radio Talk for best wishes) Paul Spatzek WL7BF (spatzek@alaska.net) I'd appreciate From Dixon Kenner Sun Jan 7 20:07:09 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 20:07:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Def rumors & comments On 7 Jan 1996, AMEDEO (Denver, CO) wrote: > Did you drive it? It is truly wonderful, I don't care what they say. > You don't want skid plates on a luxury vehicle like that? And did you > look yourself under an SE 4.0 ? It's built like a tank.. It does not need > skid plates, let's be real. The underside of the 4.0SE is an amazing collection of traps for mud, salt and dirt. I'll betcha the warranty claims in the salt belt are going to be impressive... BTW, now that's winter has arrived, how are the no-start levels? Impressive up here. Seems the worst thing you can do to a RR or a Disco is add a remote starter. > I don't say RR's are not taken off-road but give me a break; only an > idiot would take that 60k car in the type of terrain that would > require skid plates on top of everything else. Then why advertise them in that fashion? Question: What is the cost of a starter motor for a '94 Disco and the cost of a fusable link on a '94 Range Rover? Rgds, Dixon From Russell Burns Sun Jan 7 17:28:13 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 96 17:28:13 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Def rumors & comments > > I don't say RR's are not taken off-road but give me a break; only an > > idiot would take that 60k car in the type of terrain that would > > require skid plates on top of everything else. Thank god for idiots, their the only thing that keeps the world turning.... Russ Burns From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Sun Jan 7 17:33:42 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 17:33:42 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Def rumors & comments ----------------------------- Begin Original Text -------------------------- Terr-Ann Wakeman: thanks for positive salesman comments but why do you think RR's are not taken off-road? ----------------------------- End Original Text ----------------------------- There are a LOT of Range Rovers in Silicon Valley and there are some on the West coast Land rover list. People o that list have frequent outigs, I have participatd i several of them. I have only personally seen ONE Range Rover off road. EVER. Thats why TeriAnn From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sun Jan 07 17:55:38 1996 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 17:55:38 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Series frame over assembly order Tim Harincar writes: :Getting ready to begin the frame replacement on my '66 IIa 88. I know a :few of you have done this before, so I'd like to inquire the order you :moved components. : :My plan was to remove most of the body (top, doors & seats came off :yesterday (in -3 degree temps; back in the garage now), then do fuel :tank, suspension components, engine & other drivetrain comps, :electricals, and then back to body (with overlap as necessary). Oh geeez!!! Too late already! Out West we do "underbody" removal of Land Rover frames, that is, leaving everything on the top on, slipping the old frame off from below, and a new frame on in reverse. Generally the way it works is this... you place the new frame under the Land Rover, usually by driving over it and jokeying the frame to get the outriggers between the wheels. Then, using jackstands and cut to length tree stumps, etc. support the Land Rover body and upper mechanics, including the engine, tranny, petrol tank, etc. Next, loosen the frame from the upper Land Rover and drop it down. Cut the old frame apart with your acetylene torch and slide the pieces out, including both axles. Lift the new frame up and reattach to the upper Land Rover, then reattach the engine, tranny, tank, etc. and then the axles slide back under the truck to be fastened. **Voila** all done... sounds much harder than it actually is :) Too bad you already removed all the top stuff. Maybe on you next frameover you can try the Western Underbody method. Cheers, ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Sun Jan 7 21:47:43 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:47:43 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Horizontal Snow 2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern Pennsylvania. Thought I'd go out and play with the IIA in the snow but they've closed the roads now. Oh well. From dsticht@usa.net Sun Jan 7 19:49:45 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:49:45 -0700 From: dsticht@usa.net Subject: D90 AC & Heater Been reading this thread about the D90 w/ac and no heat on the pasenger side. I have a 94D90 w/ac. Had the same problem last winter. Last summer I took the ac duct unit out to see what the answer could be and also found a redirected heating duct that seemed to go nowhere but to heat up the tray that kept my gloves warm. The solution was to purchase another heat deflector as would be if without ac. Also buy a short section of aluminum exhaust duct for a clothes dryer, from a hardware store. Now, cut a hole in the ac duct unit over the old original hot air outlet. Put new deflector over new hole. Now, place a section of flexible duct inside ac duct to redirect "hot" air to new deflector. I held mine in place with duct tape. Will see how that stuff holds up after the winter is over here in the middle of New Hampshire. Lots more heet to passenger's feet!! cheers David Sticht '94 D90 AA "1ROVER" '96 Disco From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Jan 7 19:42:42 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 19:42:42 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re:Misc. 1) Have had a run of bad tail lamp socket assys on D90 SWs delivered recently. They allow water ingress, pull lotsa current, and the coating burns off of the contacts and they fail very quickly and look as though they are a hundred years old! They really are not very good units. Evey thirty year old Lucas assemblies are far superior. Replacing them is only temporary fix. The Rover hardcore will come up with a solution as always. For now, I recommend dousing the internals with dielectric grease and sealing everything once reconnected with RTV or wrap w/inner tube and secure w/tie wraps. Crude but better than this fire drill! 2) Thread on D90 heater effectiveness w/AC installed. Early A/C blanked the passenger side outlet. Later units have a pass through outlet (small round w/louvres) in the front of the unit in passenger footwell. This still isn't as good as the heater w/no AC installed, but at least some warm air is able to pass directly into the footwell. 3) Interesting observation on Mercedes AAV. Yes it will compete short term w/Discovery (at least at price point) but eventually will be directly competing w/new Land Rover *Adventurer* nee-CB40. This new model will share much more of the AAV functionality than it does with the Discovery. 4) Personal observation lately is that many Discoveries are being shipped w/Goodyear Eagles in place of Michelins. This primarily due to worldwide shortage of Michelins. Land Rover got stuffed when Michelin was awarded a fat new contract and has resulted in production shortage. I have the Goodyears on my dealer demo SE-7 and find it to be basically equivalent in ride quality. Off road experience has been limited to about a foot-deep hard-packed icy snow and it performed admirably in high range - even without diff lock. So far, owners haven't complained. 5) Another BSROA member is putting his D110 up for sale. He is asking 39500 and it has about 39K miles w/factory winch setup and Hellas. Any interest can post me privately and I will furnish phone number, etc. BTW, the original D110 *on blocks* was withdrawn and is no longer for sale. cheers Jim - now we're looking for 24 inches of new snow! Diff lock? `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From CORD5@aol.com Sun Jan 7 22:54:59 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:54:59 -0500 From: CORD5@aol.com Subject: Need Help! Can someone send me the lro-digest from 1/6/96? The file did not download properly to my computer and I lost it. I tried to retrieve it automatically from the majordomo automated system but it didn't work. Thanks, Cord From Wdcockey@aol.com Sun Jan 7 23:19:36 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:19:36 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Newbie to the group In a message dated 96-01-07 20:03:31 EST, you write: >1)What are the real restrictions to bringing one over from Britain? Helped a friend import a '70 SIIA from Canada and we had to have a conversation with U.S. Customs about what can be legally imported. They initially said pre-'68, but we persuaded them to check and on a form with about 10 different possible boxes to check as to legality was the first box with a clause of "or 25 years old or older". This is the relevant clause, and vehicles over 25 years are exempt from having to meet U.S. safety standards. The LR in question had a U.S. EPA sticker, but the customs folks didn't seem to care about EPA anyway. Other possible boxes are that the manufacturer certifies the vehicle as meeting applicable standards but don't waste your time, or that you are a manufacturer. In the latter case you need to be genuine, post a bond, and are subject to spot checks so forget about that one. Basically, 25 years or older. David Cockey From Jeff & Laura Kessler Sun Jan 7 23:13:19 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:13:19 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Introduction to Range Rover ownership Hi! My name is Jeff and I have been subscribing to the list for the past few weeks (shortly after we finally broke down and got on the Internet). We have an 88 Range Rover we bought just over 3 months ago. I have been a Land Rover fan for over 20 years, ever since I spent a Christmes break cruising with a friend in his 66 109 SW. So when my local GM dealer (Dartmouth Motors in Newport NH) took this RR in trade (and not knowing a thing about them) they gave me a call and loaned it to me for a few days to check it over. Some comments: I have used both Rovers North and Atlantic British for parts and technical assistance and both are great. RN parts are more expensive but they freely gave me advice and answered my questions prior to our purchase and most recently last week when moisture in my fuel system froze and put the RR off the road in the sub 0 degree F we are having. (I'm back running thank you.) I know why newer RRs have heated windshields and seats. Can a muff be placed to block air from a RR radiator to get more heat? When the family travels in this cold the vehicle we take is our all wheel drive GMC Safari van. That has a heater! I always thought I would get a Series LR as an extra vehicle but I am very happy to have this RR as my main vehicle. The full time 4 wheel drive makes travel much safer and worry free then shifting in and out of 4wd. The RR is replacing an older Isuzu Trooper, which I dug out of the snow and used when the RR was down, so we come from the STOP-SHIFT INTO 4WD-START AGAIN world. Even though our Isuzu served us well for 10 years (did get parked on its roof once, i did not even get a picture), I am still amazed by how much better a vehicle the RR is. ( I heard Isuzu is coming out with Shift on the Fly finally. Welcome to the 80's). It seems others also realize the benefit of running Hellas on their Rovers. I also learned of a place for service in Keene NH (40 miles). Our local garage, Metric Motors in Newport, is great but has little experience with RRs. Sooner or later I will need to track down why my EFI light is on (bought it that way and I am amazed I have let it go as long. maybe a trip to Keene is in order. The LR dealers are at least 2 hours away. As I learn more about our RR I have more questions. I will be asking them in the future. Reading the digest has answered some even before I know to ask. Thanks for letting me introduce myself and run on some. Jeff Kessler 88 RR Newport NH 603-863-7883 From Jeff & Laura Kessler Sun Jan 7 23:13:25 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 23:13:25 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Introduction to Range Rover ownership Hi! My name is Jeff and I have been subscribing to the list for the past few weeks (shortly after we finally broke down and got on the Internet). We have an 88 Range Rover we bought just over 3 months ago. I have been a Land Rover fan for over 20 years, ever since I spent a Christmes break cruising with a friend in his 66 109 SW. So when my local GM dealer (Dartmouth Motors in Newport NH) took this RR in trade (and not knowing a thing about them) they gave me a call and loaned it to me for a few days to check it over. Some comments: I have used both Rovers North and Atlantic British for parts and technical assistance and both are great. RN parts are more expensive but they freely gave me advice and answered my questions prior to our purchase and most recently last week when moisture in my fuel system froze and put the RR off the road in the sub 0 degree F we are having. (I'm back running thank you.) I know why newer RRs have heated windshields and seats. Can a muff be placed to block air from a RR radiator to get more heat? When the family travels in this cold the vehicle we take is our all wheel drive GMC Safari van. That has a heater! I always thought I would get a Series LR as an extra vehicle but I am very happy to have this RR as my main vehicle. The full time 4 wheel drive makes travel much safer and worry free then shifting in and out of 4wd. The RR is replacing an older Isuzu Trooper, which I dug out of the snow and used when the RR was down, so we come from the STOP-SHIFT INTO 4WD-START AGAIN world. Even though our Isuzu served us well for 10 years (did get parked on its roof once, i did not even get a picture), I am still amazed by how much better a vehicle the RR is. ( I heard Isuzu is coming out with Shift on the Fly finally. Welcome to the 80's). It seems others also realize the benefit of running Hellas on their Rovers. I also learned of a place for service in Keene NH (40 miles). Our local garage, Metric Motors in Newport, is great but has little experience with RRs. Sooner or later I will need to track down why my EFI light is on (bought it that way and I am amazed I have let it go as long. maybe a trip to Keene is in order. The LR dealers are at least 2 hours away. As I learn more about our RR I have more questions. I will be asking them in the future. Reading the digest has answered some even before I know to ask. Thanks for letting me introduce myself and run on some. Jeff Kessler 88 RR Newport NH 603-863-7883 From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Jan 7 21:08:00 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 21:08:00 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Horizontal Snow Randall Thomas speaks of snow... >2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern >Pennsylvania. >Thought I'd go out and play with the IIA in the snow but they've closed the >roads now. - Nice to hear that someone else is getting belted for a change... although I guess we'll get the tail end of this storm. A couple of years ago after a similar storm, I called my parents to see how they were doing. They had snow drifts high enough so they could not see out of the first floor windows, so I figured that I should drive up and help them dig out. They live about 30 miles away, in the next county. Off I went in my SerIII (Fern), canvas top and all. The winds were blowing from the west, which put the deepest parts of the snow drifts on the right-hand side of the truck. Every time I hit a snow drift the heater sucked in lots of snow and blew it up inside the truck. It was a white-out most of the way and there were quite a few drifts I had to hit more than once to break through. I got a bit worried when the carb started to ice up, but fortunately I got to a spot where the woods blocked the wind and kept the engine running. Like an idiot I kept going. The next couple of miles were just as bad and took me into the next town. I knew what would lie ahead and decided to call it quits. So, I turned around and went home. After I got home I found out that the road I was on was officially closed... Enjoy the snow! Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue #:-}> From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Jan 8 00:54:29 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:54:29 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Horizontal Snow In a message dated 96-01-07 22:13:17 EST, you write: >2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern >Pennsylvania. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >roads now. >Oh well. I can't believe it, you're gettin' all the fun while we here Wisconsites are only getting 4.5 degrees F, but NO snow. What are we doing wrong? Do you think you hogs could give up a little of the white stuff? John From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Jan 8 00:54:30 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:54:30 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Misc. In a message dated 96-01-07 23:07:34 EST, you write: >cheers >Jim - now we're looking for 24 inches of new snow! Diff lock? quit rubbing it in... :) John. From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Jan 8 00:54:29 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 00:54:29 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 AC & Heater In a message dated 96-01-07 22:13:29 EST, you write: >Will see how that stuff holds up after the winter >is over here in the middle of New Hampshire. Lots more heet to passenger's [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >David Sticht >'94 D90 AA "1ROVER" Yes! I am glad you posted this note David. I was having the same thoughts and I'm glad you've taken it farther than my thinkings have gotten me. I guess you could go one step more and just vent the passenger heat into the AC duct and use those vents as air directors. thanks, John N9EJC 94 D90, Wisc From Benjamin Allan Smith Sun Jan 07 22:34:04 1996 Date: Sun, 07 Jan 1996 22:34:04 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Horizontal Snow In message <199601080555.AAA03412@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: ] ]2 feet, drifting to 5 feet so far with 30 to 40 mph winds here in eastern ] ]Pennsylvania. ] I can't believe it, you're gettin' all the fun while we here Wisconsites are ] only getting 4.5 degrees F, but NO snow. What are we doing wrong? Do you ] think you hogs could give up a little of the white stuff? Meanwhile here in Ridgecrest (California) it was warm enough for T-shirts and shorts. But then we did have an early morning wakeup call in the form of a 5.2 "aftershock". Mad me real nervous as I spent most of the day under the Rover with one corner jacked up and a wheel off. (I replaced front brake shoes, tranny brake shoes and one of the rear springs. I guess that leaves the other spring for tomorrow) Luckily for me, I ment to jack the Rover up last night and leave it with the rear springs off, but didn't because I didn't want the neighbors kids playing near it before I got up in the morning. As for snow, I think we already got our allotment in the form of 4 inches a few weeks ago. (And before you all yell an scream about my warm(er) weather, just think of me in the summer when I have 100 days above 100F (and 30+ days around 115F)). Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Blacker Hovse Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Sun Jan 7 22:41:07 1996 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 22:41:07 -0800 From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: ARB leak resolution Mentioned on at least one list that my rear ARB was leaking. Turned out to be a defective U-seal. This was a known problem with some units shipped around the time mine had been installed. They paid for the repair and I'm satisfied that they acknowledged the problem and took care of it. -Rick '94 D90 Waiting for the front to go......... From cmw@tiac.net (cmw) Mon Jan 8 02:29:33 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 02:29:33 -0500 From: cmw@tiac.net (cmw) Subject: Re:Mike at ECR & the dead > But the real story is >that all but two of the 88's supplied to the movie company were utter >garbage! How do I know you ask, well I'm the one who built them. When the >call came in from the movie company, we had two weeks to put together 5 >88's. ... Heh,heh -glad you saw fit to post something on this, I remembered that you had done these and it was pestering me -but I wasn't about to throw you to the dogs! Or the purists, or whatever. :-) >... Man those trucks were a mess. ... > The majority of the trucks were non running wrecks we pulled out of [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >the film was shot in Texas and South Carolina too, not Africa. Movie magic >can do wonders, I guess it fooled you. With your explaination that these were not big $$ restorations that were destroyed, and a little bit of experience looking around at "Excellent Original Condition" Rovers I'm sure everyone has gotten the picture. For everybody else, Mike does really nice work on Rovers (as opposed to "really nice" as seen in ads for Rovers ;-)-hopefully he'll be doing some for me soon!?! Anybody know how to break a dock-workers' strike?? Chris From cmw@tiac.net (cmw) Mon Jan 8 02:38:00 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 02:38:00 -0500 From: cmw@tiac.net (cmw) Subject: Re: Soft vs. Hard tops JEPurnell@aol.com asked about soft tops & weather. I'm new here, and to Rovers but I did just come away from more than 5 years with a soft top! >In fact, I bought it so late that the >dealer had 2 1995s on the floor and was very eager to deal on my 94. I >walked into a perfect situation. Lucky Duck ;-) ... >Another point I thought of was how long can we expect the Bestops to last? I >don't mean the windows yellowing, but the canvas and the stitching? Will >running it in the winter reduce its lifespan, being cold stiff and flapping? ... > I wonder which will promote wear more: winter or summer? I found that the summer sun was much worse than winter cold for the top of my car. I thought about the hard top (for about ten seconds -$6k-!) but decided against it. I feel that the top can be kept in great condition through the winter if it can be kept clear/dry. The extent to which water would penetrate my top and /then/ freeze was what would worry me most. When I kept it clear to prevent snow from melting into the fabrice, or warmed it up to melt ice off of it before hitting the road I didn't have a care. -It only gets down to -20 or so here in Mass. -but that top and associated black parts were often headed toward 200 plus in the summer sun! The top, thinner than that of the Rover, lasted over 5 years -still looking good (try Safecut polish and carnuba wax on the windows). So, all told, if for the most part you can keep the top from freezing /solid/ in the cold, and from baking from full sun whenever possible you should be in good shape for quite a while. Chris From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 96 Jan EST 1905 Date: 8 Jan 96 5:09:07 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: 15" speedo with 16" wheels - what's the error? Yup - my old 109 was fitted with one. And I always wondered why it read low..... 8*) Alan P.S.: Anybody got a spare 16: unit they want to sell? ajr From Andy Dingley Mon Jan 08 11:20:20 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 11:20:20 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Polybushes Mark Talbot wrote: >Any coil sprung land Rover owners fitted the poly bush kit ? My 88 RR is in >need of bushing job at the front and I was wondering what you lot thought of >them, or see if anyone had fitted them ? When I bought my '85 Rangie this Summer, it was wandering all over the road due to a split front radius arm inboard bush. A new set of polybushes sorted it out beautifully. I wouldn't use polyurethane bushes if you want a cushy ride. They do increase road vibration and noise, but not seriously. They'll not cure Rangie cornering wallow either, as they're neither an anti roll bar, nor a lowering kit. I'd still recommend them though. They transform steering accuracy when changing lanes on motorways. Two sorts of bush kit are available; one piece and two piece. Opinions vary as to the best sort. Two piece are easier to fit, but no-one can agree which is more reliable in service. One piece are reputed to fall out (if you can push them in, you can push them out), but two pieces tend to split in the middle and work their way sideways. I've no idea which is best - I've used both and never had serious trouble. There are two sizes of bushes for Rangies, changing in '87 (I think) and naturally they're incompatible. Mine had the old sort, but appeared to have a new size panhard rod fitted. Fortunately my supplier agreed to supply individual bushes and credit me for the unused ones - imagine trying that with a boxed set of Ironman. To extract old bushes, I burn the rubber out, then split the steel liner with two hacksaw cuts and chisel out the strip between them. Don't just start hammering away, as it's too much like hard work. You don't need a press. To refit the new bushes, press the two parts in by hand, then squeeze the inner steel tube in with a vice. Use washing up liquid if you need a lubricant. To change the front axle, refit the driver's side first. It's easier this way, as you have more room to swing it about when the axle is loose at both sides. The side with the steering drop arm on it needs all the manipulating room you can get. Refitting is easier if you take both sides off together, but you can do one at a time if you wish. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk The Internet has given us all mountains of information at our fingertips. ...and all most people want to do is pick their noses with them. From "Steve Reddock" Mon Jan 08 07:49:31 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 07:49:31 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Temperature /internet /to tdelve@nectech.co.uk /report /end Hi Trefor, Still no progress on the gearbox. The starter has jammed (full of mud I suspect) so the whole thing is stuck up against the garage wall parked on top of about 3 inches of mud from when I jet washed it. I'm just waiting for enough dry weather to do something about it as always. I have absolutely no problems with cooling. Only once have I had it get hot. After I went off-roading at xmas it was too cold to clean properly so the rad stayed mud clogged. The mud was all over the bonnet, so a rad full is guaranteed. Sitting at a steady 70 MPH for a few hours the gauge read about 120 degrees, but never seemed to boil over. I have towed a fairly heavy trailer from Brum to Pompey on the hot part of the heat wave with no trouble and even the Pompey traffic jams don't seem to bother it. The only heat trouble I get is the passenger footwell is very warm, even hotter than my friends IIa petrol. Perhaps this was indicative of the gearbox failure which has now occurred. With the roof & doors off this wasn't a problem. I don't know about the legality of this, but I have been seen by several police cars and never been stopped. Perhaps your rad is clogged internally? Maybe 3/4 is your thermostat temp. Ford standard stats are 92 degrees. Is the land rover one lower? Perhaps the mid point of the gauge is say 86 degrees and 3/4 is 92. Temp gauges are very non-linear. The middle 2/3 of the scale only covers a small range ( say 85-115 degrees) whilst the full span is about 40 - 140 degrees. Consequently a large movement on the gauge could correspond to a few degrees in temperature. It could be worth a controlled experiment where you block off the rad with some card and see what temperature is held whilst the car is stationary. If the 3/4 temp is held for ages without boiling then it could be that is your stat temp, but if the normal (half way?) temp is held for a while followed by ever increasing temp then I am barking up the wrong tree. My gauge is much simpler as it has real numbers for the temperatures. Does anybody know at what temperature a 50:50 mixture boils whilst under a 13psi (I think) pressure cap? I have seen 120 without any problems and no water / steam coming out of the overflow. I tell a lie. It did nearly overheat once. At the hill rally I set off at first in low ratio in extreme heat at a very high pace. Flat out in fourth with lots of hard acceleration saw the temp gauge rise to 120 fairly rapidly. When I engaged brain & realised speeds where too high for even high ratio things cooled down to a sensible level. Happy Land-rovering, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From Rick Jaffe Mon Jan 8 08:41:24 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 08:41:24 -0500 From: Rick Jaffe Subject: Disco won't start in cold weather My Disco has since Saturday failed to start. The battery is still okay, but the engine won't turn over. I've tried Dry Gas. In this storm no tow truck can get up our driveway, so the Land Rover 800 number is of no help. I know of three other Discos in the northeast with identical symptoms. Help. Rick Jaffe USMail: OTA Limited Partnership, 1 Manhattanville Rd., Purchase, NY 10577 Phone: +1 914 694-5800 x230 FAX: +1 914 694-5831 Internet: rsj@ox.com From benedick@pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Mon Jan 8 09:07:14 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 09:07:14 -0500 From: benedick@pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Subject: 4.0 Stuck in the snow Good Morning All: Well, it just stopped snowing here in Southern Pennsylvania and I can't get an accurate measurment, but it's 2+ FEET! My husband took his 4.0 out to try to get to the local hospital (to help try to transport personnel) and got as far as our neighbors' driveway (Probably 100 feet). The snow is so deep that he said it is lifting the vehicle up. I did take pictures. It's over the headlights. As I walked to take the pictures, it was up to my waist (I'm 5'4") and very hard to walk in. Sorry to all of you that have the cold without the snow (that stinks!) and BTW I heard the wheather people are calling for another "significant snow fall" on friday! I'll be shoveling for the rest of the week (or month) Kris - 94 Disco.- Thumper P.S. Please, Don't brand me (us) a yuppie but rather hard workers! From Easton Trevor Mon Jan 08 09:35:00 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 09:35:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: 12 noon or midnight Dave Rosenbuam wrote is 12pm noon or midnight? 12pm doesn't exist since p.m. is post meridiem (after noon) and a.m. is ante meridiem (before noon) 12.00 can only be noon or midnight 12.00.01 could be pm or am. If it really matters use 24 hr clock or state specifically noon or midnight. Trevor Easton From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Jan 8 14:33:13 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:33:13 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: 15" speedo with 16" wheels - what's the error? On 8 Jan 96, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Yup - my old 109 was fitted with one. Me too > And I always wondered why it read low..... 8*) I've always reckoned on about 10% - however I've also got a frayed speedo cable as well (35mph on the clock and I'm overtaking artics. -- uphill!) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or Quote of 1995: "The archididascalus is to be rusticated and will cease to be an abecedarian on the 1st of April" From Russell Burns Mon Jan 8 6:51:06 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 6:51:06 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Disco won't start in cold weather My range rover has a tendincy to flood in cold weather. If you step on the gas at all, it will flood. Last winter I had to remove all the spark plugs, and dry them off as Mt wife pumped the gas a couple of times while trying to start the beast. I was also at the dealer that day and noticed lots of Range Rovers which has flooded. Russ > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > USMail: OTA Limited Partnership, 1 Manhattanville Rd., Purchase, NY 10577 > Phone: +1 914 694-5800 x230 FAX: +1 914 694-5831 > Internet: rsj@ox.com From david@stat.com (David Dodell) Mon Jan 08 07:22:41 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 07:22:41 MST From: david@stat.com (David Dodell) Subject: Disco won't start in cold weather Rick Jaffe writes: > My Disco has since Saturday failed to start. The battery is still > okay, but the engine won't turn over. I've tried Dry Gas. In this > storm no tow truck can get up our driveway, so the Land Rover 800 > number is of no help. I know of three other Discos in the northeast > with identical symptoms. Just one suggestion, I had a strange symptom the first time I filled up my 96 Disco with gas. It just wouldn't turn over. Found out that the connector to the fuel pump was loose. Look under the left rear tire ... right above the tire against the frame you'll see a connector/wire. Pull apart the connector, make sure it is clean and then plug it back together. That "might" help ... it did in my case since it was dirty, and I wonder with all the snow you've gotten water in there. David --- Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-6135 WWW: http://www.stat.com/~david From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Jan 8 15:01:53 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:01:53 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: SLROC events 1996 If anyones planning a trip to Sunny Scotland - here's a copy of the provisional events dates: (also avaliable via http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/SLROC/ Contact me for a description of me & Lucas...... --------------------------------------------------------------------- SLROC Events for 1996 Here is the events list for 1996. All dates are provisional, please check the hot line for forthcoming events. For details of the sites and times, phone the hot line on: 0141 632 2770 January Sunday 14th Green Road Run ?? Arrocher, Strathclyde Region ?? Sunday 28th CCV Trial Bathgate, Lothian Region February Saturday 17th Annual General Meeting Hotel Cladhan, Falkirk, Fife Region March Sunday 10th RTV Trial To Be Announced Sunday 31st Comp Safari To Be Announced April Sunday 14th CCV Trial To Be Announced May Sunday 12th CCV Trial To Be Announced Sunday 19th Show St. Boswells Sunday 26th Commercial Vehicle Show Alford Saturday 25th to Monday 27th UK National Rally England June Sunday 2nd Show Mellerstain Saturday 8th RTV Trial To Be Announced Sunday 9th Comp Safari To Be Announced Friday 21st Local's Dance Brig O'Turk, Central Region Saturday 22nd Green Road Run Callander, Central Region Sunday 23rd CCV Trial Callander, Central Region July Sunday 7th Fintry Fun Day Fintry Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st Dalmeny Vehicle Show Dalmeny House, Edinburgh, Lothian Region Sunday 28th CCV Trial To Be Announced August Sunday 11th CCV Trial To Be Announced Saturday 24th RTV Trial(non-championship) To Be Announced Sunday 25th Enduro (Comp Safari variation) To Be Announced September Saturday 7th Comp Safari To Be Announced Sunday 8th RTV Trial To Be Announced Saturday 21st CCV Trial & Dinner Dance Callander, Central Region Sunday 22nd Treasure Hunt Callander, Central Region October Sunday 6th CCV Trial To Be Announced Sunday 27th Comp Safari To Be Announced November Sunday 10th RTV Trial To Be Announced December Sunday 1st CCV Trial To Be Announced Thursday 26th Boxing Day Bash To Be Announced (usually near Edinburgh) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or Quote of 1995: "The archididascalus is to be rusticated and will cease to be an abecedarian on the 1st of April" From Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Mon Jan 8 16:14:48 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:14:48 +0100 (MET) From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Polybushes DIY ? Hi Rovers! When I read the thread about polybushes it came to my mind if one could make such things yourself. Any experiances out there? Has anybody got the measures for my 1989 110 ? Yours, Franz -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From William Owen Mon Jan 08 09:05:53 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 09:05:53 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Discovery-Stuck in the Snow -Reply The problem is that you have open diffs on both axles. This means that if one wheel looses traction and spins, it gets all the power on that axle. Its designed this way so the vehicle can turn properly. The best solution is to avoid this situation. Some trucks come with limited slip rear diffs to lock up once there is slippage, but some people feel these are not as dependable and may break easier than open diffs. Serious off roaders often put on locking diffs, but this can make driving on the road difficult. ARB Air Lockers can lock the axle with the push of a button, but are expensive. The RR has traction control which applies the break on the wheel which is slipping in order to get traction to the other side. One suggestion is to apply the break just enough to stop the slippage and get you moving again. You have a great vehicle. Take it from a Jeep owner. You might also look into one of the driving classes or rallys offered by LR or others to learn more about using your Disco. Good Luck, William, I spent my snowy weekend looking for explorers to pull out of the ditch, Owen From "Tom Rowe" Mon Jan 8 09:37:18 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 09:37:18 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: colorado event Awhile back someone posted tentative info about a LR gathering in Colorado this summer. When and where is it? I didn't save what was posted. I'd like to try to make this year. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Gregory Brown Mon Jan 8 10:37:07 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:37:07 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Brown Subject: Visit to England Hi all. I will be making a business trip to Worthing either this friday the 12th or monday the 15th. It is quite possible I could be in England for the weekend. Please contact me if someone lives in that area or if there are some good parts stores to dream in. You can reply to this address or my work which is gbrown@meriden.walbro.com Cheers, Greg '70 Series IIA in Connecticut w/ Chains! From crash@merl.com Mon Jan 8 10:40:32 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:40:32 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: driveline noise, cold startups It's also possible (not necessarily true, just possible) that you've misphased the driveline. Driveline "phase" has to do with the relative angles of the U-joints along a drive shaft. As a previous poster noted, a U-joint does NOT have constant torque or velocity- it varies along a sine curve with the rotation of the driveshaft. Thus, a U-jointed driveshaft *wants* to vibrate. However, it's possible to _cancel out_ this sinusoidal variation by having two U-joints working at exactly inverse angles. More specifically, the crossbar axes of a properly phased U-joint shaft (like your LR's front driveshaft) are at right angles at each end. Most specifically, if the crossbar of the U-joint segment that's bolted to the front shaft of the transfer case is held exactly vertical, then the driveline will be properly phased IF and ONLY IF the crossbar of the U-joint at the input shaft to the front diff is also exactly vertical. My hunch is that when you took the front bits apart, you took the front prop shaft apart at the splines too- to clean it up, inspect it, and put a nice new coating of grease on it, right? Well, when you put it back together, you *must* make sure that the bars on the ends are exactly aligned. The cross-bars on both ends of the splined prop shaft must be parallel (not at right angles, which some folks mistake and gives the worst possible vibration, but parallel). [I know this is hard to describe - I even tried ascii graphics but couldn't draw it either...] Note that CV joints, unlike U-joints, don't have this problem. CV stands for "Constant Velocity" and don't exhibit this sinusoidal variation of torque and angular velocity. If you want an interesting model, there are Lego Technic sets with U-joints, and some of *them* even show proper driveline phasing examples. I wish I could scan 'em in... ----- How to get easy starts even in subzero weather in two words: Synthetic Oil! The only thing that starts out "stiff" in the morning in my Disco is the power steering, 'cause that's the only thing still with dinosaur blood in it. Synthetics everywhere else! -Bill (94 Disco, in slush-encrusted white, in Massachusetts) From Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com 8 96 Jan -0500 1911 Date: 8 Jan 96 11:06:49 -0500 From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Subject: Disco Fuel Door Won't Unlock While heading out to the mountains yesterday to play in the ice and snow, I stopped to fill up and could not get the key all the way in the lock of the fuel filler door ('96 Disco). I suspect some moisture had frozen in the lock, even though the vehicle was in my garage over night. Anyway, I was determined to go off-roading and peered through the crack on the left side of the door to see how things work. Hmm. If I just raised the left side of the door a bit the latch would slide off the catch. Hmmm. I placed 2 fingers under the bottom left side of the filler door and lifted gently while slightly pulling outward. With very little effort the filler door opened right up. In fact, I am able to easily open and close the filler door without ever unlocking it. Good news is I got to go off-roading. Bad news is these Disco's really only have "psychological" fuel door locks and if someone really wants in your tank it takes no effort at all. Check your Disco's and tell me if this works for you! Mark From SWKW53A@prodigy.com (MR JAMES F MCHUGH) Mon Jan 08 11:57:07 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 11:57:07 EST From: SWKW53A@prodigy.com (MR JAMES F MCHUGH) Subject: Plastic Keys There is no metal under the plastic. The dealer also told me you cannot get a key without the plastic. Jim McHugh '95 Discover From SWKW53A@prodigy.com (MR JAMES F MCHUGH) Mon Jan 08 11:56:12 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 11:56:12 EST From: SWKW53A@prodigy.com (MR JAMES F MCHUGH) Subject: Differentials TeriAnn: Thanks for your explanation of differential basics. It was the clearest and most succinct I've seen. Your explanation raised another question, though: Are there any disadvantages to limited- slip differentials? If not, why aren't they a standard feature of "full-time" 4WD systems. As I understand it, when the center differential is unlocked on my '95 Discovery, loss of traction on one wheel has the potential to drain power from the other three. That potential, in turn, would seem to take away some of the advantages of a "full-time" system when driving on the road in areas where one might encounter, say, patchy ice or mixed snow and dry pavement. This, too, is a serious question. Thanks in advance. Jim McHugh '95 Discovery From M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Mon Jan 8 17:12:11 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 17:12:11 +0000 From: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Subject: Grafton's Gallops 11 For those interested,I have received further communications from one A.Grafton,esq,upon his travels. This consists of an Aerogram from Mombasa,dated 22/12/95,in which he states that the two 109's are on their way to them from Eilat,in Israel, in boxes,onna boat.This misses out Egypt,Sudan,Ethiopia,in the process. as he says,that's about half of Africa! Turns out that apparently you cant take "foreign" diesels into the Sinai region of Egypt.So they had to be shipped round.Although they *were* considering replacing the diesel heads with petrol just to get them in and then replaing the petrol heads once inside....academics..jeez! Apparently thr Seuz/Prt Sudan ferry is terminally busted,so even if you *do* get in,you cant get out except in a container! Also,4X4 vehicles are forbidden in the Sinai,too,and the only way round *that* one is to remove the front propshaft,and the 4WD lever *and* the low box lever. He says the whole party is in good spirits(judging by the cohesivesness of the missive,*very* good spirits,and plenty of it! He asks the collective wisdom about the possibility(or feasibiltiy) of the cyl head change.Apparently they have done the maths and decided it would just have worked,albeit badly,but enough for them to have got out of sight of the border post,and changed back again.Seems like a lot of trouble to me.I reckon the hire of a donkey or two to *pull* the bloody things would have been cheaper. I'll keep you informed as I hear more. Cheers Mike Rooth From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Jan 8 12:18:46 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:18:46 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Mike at ECR & the dead In a message dated 96-01-08 02:46:57 EST, you write: >Anybody know how to break a dock-workers' strike?? >Chris Tell 'em they'll all be driving rovers with lucas inside if they don't go back to work... From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Jan 8 12:18:50 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:18:50 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Soft vs. Hard tops In a message dated 96-01-08 02:56:25 EST, you write: >So, all told, if for the most part you can keep the top from freezing >/solid/ in the cold, and from baking from full sun whenever possible you >should be in good shape for quite a while. >Chris Thanks Chris, your comments are a helpful addition to my "database" on this complex issue, sometimes I feel it is over my head. (sorry...) John N9EJC 94 D90, Wisconsin From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Jan 8 12:41:15 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:41:15 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: 4.0 Stuck in the snow In a message dated 96-01-08 09:18:13 EST, you write: >Sorry to all of you that have the cold without the snow (that stinks!) and >BTW I heard the weather people are calling for another "significant snow [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >fall" on friday! >I'll be shoveling for the rest of the week (or month) Though I like to have fun requesting snow here, I don't mean to make light of the East Coast's burial and the concomitant life threatening consequences with so much snow that even Land Rovers can't make it through. maybe 2 feet with more coming is a little excessive. I don't own a TV so I never get to see pictures of these kinds of things. John. From Harrington Andrew Richard (eb2_95) Mon Jan 8 17:25:49 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 17:25:49 GMT From: Harrington Andrew Richard (eb2_95) Subject: Brake problems. Dear Team, New member here, Andy's the name, Off Roading's the game, well trying. I have a few problems after a recent off roading experience at Salsbury, After returning home in my Trusty and well loved Series IIA (1969) 88in with the odd hole and dents, cheers Steve, I have found a substantial loss of presure in my brakeing system. I have the old combined unit of clutch and brake unit. Since the problem first came about I have changed 50% of the brake pipes, two master cylinders, new shoes, new slave cylinder and a large bleed through operation, but I still cannot find the problem, Could it be my resivour? After the bleeding the presure returns for about two days and then I am back to square one. And there is no fluid leak. Pleas help, I am running out of ideas. I also do not want to spend any more money as I am a poor student. Cheers, Andy Harrington. From scoghill@starnetinc.com (Skip Coghill) Mon Jan 8 13:04:33 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:04:33 -0600 From: scoghill@starnetinc.com (Skip Coghill) Subject: Cement On Paint Finish Hi All, A couple months ago I had the misfortune of apparently driving behind a cement truck in the Chicago area. I find now I have some cement droppings (10-12) on my beige finish in various spots. Some measure approximately .25" in diameter and peak up .125". Stupidly I have left these on while searching for the proper method of removal. Now the concrete has cured and I am still in search of a proper chemical to use and not ruin my finish. Any suggestions? Thanks, Skip Coghill '95 Discovery From JEPurnell@aol.com Mon Jan 8 13:11:16 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:11:16 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: D90 Seats ANyone have problems with their seats making noise or falling apart? My passenger seatback has a squeak that lubricant hasn't fixed, and then recently, a long thin rod fell out of the back of it. It is the kind of squeak that could easily drive a human being insane, that kind. I am hoping that Mr. LR Dealer will see fit to replace it completely. To be fair, I think the problem started after I gave my 325 lb. Mandolin player in our band a ride to a bluegrass festival. Though the suspension didn't complain, apparently the seat did. (we did take first place, however, so it was worth it...) John. N9EJC 94D90, Wisconsin. From PurnellJE@aol.com Mon Jan 8 13:12:04 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:12:04 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Plastic Keys In a message dated 96-01-08 12:24:25 EST, you write: >There is no metal under the plastic. The dealer also told me you >cannot get a key without the plastic. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Jim McHugh >'95 Discover While still in LA, I had a friend at a key shop look for some blanks that he could make me duplicates for my Defender without the plastic end. The door key, and the center console lock key were not a problem to find, so he made me a set. The ignition key was harder, but he finally found a Ferrari key blank that would work. He also thought it works on RR. I can only assume Disco too. Well, he ordered a case of 'em, couldn't get just one, but I left Cal before they came in. So you can do it, it just takes a dedicated locksmith to search for the correct blank. John N9EJC 94 D90, Wisconsin From Andy Dingley Mon Jan 08 16:59:36 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 16:59:36 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Can you afford to off-road a Raneg Rover ? On 7 Jan 1996, AMEDEO (Denver, CO) wrote: > I don't say RR's are not taken off-road but give me a break; only an > idiot would take that 60k car in the type of terrain that would > require skid plates on top of everything else. I see your point, but isn't this a great shame ? The original intention of the Rangie was that you _could_ off-road it. IMHO, the old Range Rover is still available - they just call it the Disco these days. The thing with the Rangie badges on is some horrible Beemer with a lift kit. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk The Internet has given us all mountains of information at our fingertips. ...and all most people want to do is pick their noses with them. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Jan 8 12:52:45 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 12:52:45 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Brake problems. Andy Harrington asks > Dear Team, Snip Pleas help, I am running out of ideas. I also do not want to spend any more money as I am a poor student. Cheers, . > Dear Team, Well Andy, you may have to more spend money, but perhaps you can control the amount by doing some tests first. You should (when the pedal is low) clamp off all your flex lines and test the pedal. If it's hard you know it isn't the MC or the line leading to the flexline. Remove the clamps one at a time and retest to locate where the problem is. For clamps I use small needle nose Vice-Grips with the teeth ground off ( I have a set of three just for this purpose). Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Walter C. Swain" Mon Jan 8 10:54:52 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 10:54:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Keys (RR content) On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 PurnellJE@aol.com wrote: > While still in LA, I had a friend at a key shop look for some blanks that he > could make me duplicates for my Defender without the plastic end. The door [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Cal before they came in. So you can do it, it just takes a dedicated > locksmith to search for the correct blank. When I went to the local hardware store looking for duplicate keys for my 88 RR. They drew a blank on Rover blanks, of course, but the guy cutting the keys muttered that it looked kind of like a Nissan key. Sure enuf, he had to cut the shank back a bit, but it works just fine. The blank is made by Ilco, and is numbered X123 DA25. I have no idea if the blanks have been changed in subsequent years, so YMMV. Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From debrown@srp.gov 08 96 Jan MST 1912 Date: 08 Jan 96 12:05:11 MST From: debrown@srp.gov Subject: Weather Forecast for Jan. 8-12, 1996 FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 For those of you that live in the "snow belt", here's the weather forecast for Phoenix Arizona.... Just remember to send us your weather forecast in the summer, when our temp gets to 120 degrees plus! ======================================================================= TODAY TUE WED THU FRI Min/Max: SRP /79 48/76 48/74 46/78 48/79 NWS /77 48/76 48/76 (record maxes: 79 57 84 58 84 58 83 56 79) TODAY's MIN: 47 (preliminary report) YESTERDAY'S MAX: 78, MIN: 44, Avg. Dew Pt.: 25, RAIN: 0 (0000-2400) (record maxMAX for yesterday: 79 set in 1948) 1984-93 Normals: 45/66 (adjusted for ASOS: 42/65) For the Valley... TODAY: Clear skies. Morning breezes. Dew pts: near 20. Tonight-TUE: Increasing high clouds. Light breezes. Dew pts: 20s. WED-THU: Some high clouds. Windy (15-25 mph, higher gusts). Dew pts: 20s. FRI: Clear skies. Breezy. Dew pts: 20s. * * * * * Warm high pressure aloft is giving near-record daytime warmth to the Valley. A weak disturbance WED will bring gusty winds and a slight cooling. But the high rebuilds at week's end for more near-record highs FRI-SUN. If you miss winter, airlines might have some cheap flights to the East Coast today. Great x-country skiing on the Mall in D.C.!!! ============================================================= So what's this got to do with 4-wheeling? Uh... let's see... More along the ever popular "mine's better than yours" thread. Hey, with our summers the way they are, this is the only time of year we can gloat! Dave (warm, no frozen locks, almost ready to turn on the A/C, and loving it) Brown. #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Ross Leidy Mon Jan 08 08:47:14 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 08:47:14 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: D90 Rusted-out rear lamps On 01/07/96 at 07:42 PM, jpappa01@interserv.com penned: >1) Have had a run of bad tail lamp socket assys on D90 SWs delivered >recently. They allow water ingress, pull lotsa current, and the >coating burns off of the contacts and they fail very quickly and >look as though they are a hundred years old! They really are not >very good units. Evey thirty year old Lucas assemblies are far >superior. Replacing them is only temporary fix. The Rover hardcore >will come up with a solution as always. For now, I recommend dousing >the internals with dielectric grease and sealing everything once >reconnected with RTV or wrap w/inner tube and secure w/tie wraps. >Crude but better than this fire drill! [snip] I've got an appointment with the dealer to take care of this same problem on my three-month-old 95 D90. Last week I noticed that one of my rear parking lights was out. Brake light too. I removed the tail lamp assembly and to my surprise, there was water sloshing about inside. When I removed the bulb base, I found that it was totally rusted away. After inspecting the remaining rear lenses, I found at least 2 others that contained water. I didn't disassemble them for fear of losing all rear lights. Not fully illuminated, Ross _____________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 From "John P. Casteel" <70472.557@compuserve.com> 08 96 Jan EST 1914 Date: 08 Jan 96 14:07:51 EST From: "John P. Casteel" <70472.557@compuserve.com> Subject: Considering SIIa Hello all, I have another wild hair. I am considering selling my '90 RR and buying a Series IIa. (I love my RR so this is a tough decision. I would especially miss the heating and air conditioning.) To help in the decision process I would like some help from you chaps, my Rover friends. If (When) I make this decision I will most likely get an 88 and it must have both a hard and soft top and a wheel on the bonnet. 1. What is the top speed and how fast can I expect to push a IIa for extended periods? I am talking about an 8 hour trip. 2. How much will an overdrive increase the top speed? 3. What is the towing capacity? 4. I prefer to do my own restoration but in this case I will probably buy a fully restored or near fully restored vehicle. What should I expect to pay? 5. What is the best year (and why?)? 6. From all accounts the 2.25 petrol engine is superb. Should I consider a diesel? The earliest I would act on this decision is three months so I am only familiarizing myself with the market. However, if any of you in the South East have an interesting offering I'd like to hear about it. Also, are there any "Rover Car Lots" in the South East? I seem to remember a thread about a dealer, of Series vehicles, somewhere in the Carolinas. Cheers and Warm Regards, John Casteel From "Tom Rowe" Mon Jan 8 13:20:08 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:20:08 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: 4.0 Stuck in the snow John Purnell writes snip > with so much snow that even Land Rovers can't make it through. Back around '77 (give or take a couple of years) the once in ten year big strom occured where I was living, which just happened to be where the current storm hit on the US east coast. I was living in VA near Harpers Ferry, WV and we had between 25 & 30" (plus drifts) My dad had to catch a plane to Denver for his mom's funeral (don't ask me why we thought Dulles would be open) so I towed our Dodge Aspen the mile to the road with my '62 swb regular. It *did* take about 1 1/2 hours and I had chains on all four, but my LR made it through. I'm sure you're asking why I towed the Dodge instead of taking the LR. Well, it wasn't registered. But, as it turns out, that was no reason. In the 30 mile or so trip to the airport we saw maybe three other vehicles, none of them police. Land Rovers will make it through amazing depths. In Vt one year I had snow rolling back over the bonnet so that I only had about a 2" slit at the top of the windscreen to peer through, and made it up a better than 50% hill to my house. I love blizzards. When I was growing up, for fun my dad and I used to go about in our IHC Travelall during snow storms and pull people out of their stuck situations. I was always supprised when people would flatly refuse, I guess they thought we were going to charge them. It's so flat where I live now though, it seems no-one ever gets stuck. :-( Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From ChrisF6724@aol.com Mon Jan 8 14:39:40 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 14:39:40 -0500 From: ChrisF6724@aol.com Subject: index lro-digest index lro-digest From Ross Leidy Mon Jan 8 15:02:33 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:02:33 -0500 (EST) From: Ross Leidy Subject: D90 Seats >ANyone have problems with their seats making noise or falling apart? My >passenger seatback has a squeak that lubricant hasn't fixed, and then >recently, a long thin rod fell out of the back of it. It is the kind of >squeak that could easily drive a human being insane, that kind. I am hoping >that Mr. LR Dealer will see fit to replace it completely. [snip] >John. N9EJC >94D90, Wisconsin. I had a horribly irritating sqeak in the driver's seat. It was caused by the spring that moves the seat-back foward when you release the lever. The part of the spring (for lack of a better term) that sits in the horizontal metal tube at the pivot point was rubbing against the inside of the tube. A bit of lube fixed it up. - Ross ______________________________ Ross Leidy ross@secant.com Secant Technologies 95 NAS D90 From lopezba@atnet.at Mon Jan 8 21:27:44 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:27:44 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Last of heaters for this winter Dear, cold cis-Atlantic sufferers, no more on heaters from over there I=B4m afraid. But to complete the= picture, here is a little story I shamelessly stole from the Land Rover Series One Newsletter, who shamelessly stole it from Southern News Update, who shamelessly stole it from Classic Motor & Autojumble, who probably shamelessly stole it from somebody else: Dear Klaxton, Is there any recognised standard for measuring the output of a heater? I ask= this because I have fitted an optional heater kit to my (insert name of your= Favourite Car here), and I am not very impressed by the result. In fact it= is difficult to tell whether or not the thing is working at all, yet I am sure that all the water pipes are connected up properly and I can hear the= fan running. P. Lea, Thornton Cleveley Dear Mr. Lea, If you examine the maker=B4s plate on the side of your heater you should= find an official rating figure. This will consist of a number (probably 2 in the= case of Your Favourite Car heater) followed by the letters MB. MB was used= to measure the output in the same way that HP (for Horse Power) measures the= engine output. MB actually stands for Mouse Breath, so the output of a 2MB= heater ought to be the equivalent of two mice breathing hard on your knees.= I trust this explains things for you. Well, haven=B4t checked on my circular heater, although it is Bosch and= should be working with German efficiency. Since my spare parts still have not arrived (damn some suppliers!), the Green Monster stays in the yard. In the= meantime, let us all hope for some global warming! Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 08 96 Jan EST 1915 Date: 08 Jan 96 15:51:16 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Sightings in the news ...just saw a report on german TV about the US East Coast snow situation; folks on skis gliding past the White House, then a take down some deserted boulevard, parked cars invisible under snow drifts, falling snow almost blocking out visibility... Then from the off behind the cameraman a car comes into the picture, powering ahead and away into the blizzard: Range Rover! Camera sweeps to the left: Out of a side street, pushing a wall of snow in front of him, another Range Rover turns into the boulevard and passes in front of the camera. Next take: A different street, even more snow, visibility near zero; a dark silhouette begins to emerge from ahead, contours slowly become clearer... you guessed it, another RR ! (Talk about free advertisement) Was this coincidence, or is Washington that full of Range Rovers? Of course you'd notice them more when nothing else is on the road :-) Only backdraw was the Jeep Cherokee w/snowplough clearing the President's driveway... Stefan From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Mon Jan 8 13:39:14 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 96 13:39:14 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: Discovery Ground Clearance One thing that strikes me about the Discovery is that it rides on rather small tires. The ground clearance doesn't seem to be better than most mini-vans. LRNA likes to promote the Discovery as a serious offroader; how does it get by? If you take a look at a typical U.S. 4WD magazine, almost every truck featured has a lift and large tires. Due to limited wheelwell space, I don't think it would be easy to fit larger tires on a Discovery, nor do I know of any lift kits made for this vehicle. Would anyone care to comment regarding this issue? -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Mon Jan 8 13:49:50 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:49:50 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Range Rovers off road TeriAnn, visit http://www.pubsvc.dsr.com/LandRover/adventures.html and you will see two Range Rovers in fairly extreme offroad conditions. I personally have never seen a Series IIa offroad, but I don't continually remind the mail group of the fact. -Matt From "Walter C. Swain" Mon Jan 8 13:52:15 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 13:52:15 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Keys (RR content) (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 08 96 Jan EST 1911 Date: 08 Jan 96 11:50:54 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Snow, Ice and Disco ABS Some gut named Amadeo just wrote: I don't know who this guy is but he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about. Both the Disco and the RR have the same 4 channel ABS systems. Mine worked great on ice and snow last night here in Atlanta. What the Disco doesn't have is traction control. This system uses part of the ABS (rear wheels only) to apply the brakes to either rear wheel should it start to spin.This will cause the torque to be applied to the wheel with greater traction. To call the Disco's system inferior is incorrect as its ABS is the equal of the RR's, it just doesn't have the traction control. but then it doesn't cost $55,000 either! Mark Ritter 94 Disco Shopping for a 95 County RR to replace my wife's Lexu< From m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Mon Jan 8 16:57:13 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:57:13 -0500 (EST) From: m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Subject: RR Bush Replacement, Dealers Mark Talbot enquires about Polybushes for an 88 RR... I have made this mod to my '89. I did it all (front and back) by myself one tiring Saturday last summer. Took me 8 or 9 hours, but I'm not exactly an Indy pit crew member, by any stretch. The hardest part was getting the old bushes out. Used the time-tested propane torch removal system known and loved by Series Owners. Fitting the Polybushes themselves is a piece of cake. You definitely DON'T need the "special" tool. I believe I used a piece of threaded rod and nuts to install a couple of bushes ( I Don't remember which ones), but most went in using hand pressure or a couple of taps with the end of my half inch drive power handle. Soap might make even that unnecessary. One caveat - the radius arm nuts call for a torque setting of 140 ft/lbs or so (No, I don't know how many newtons that is.) I have the standard Sears Craftsman model torque wrench which only goes up to 120 or so, and have had a hard time getting things tight enough. I still get a disconcerting "bump" from the right front occasionally when I round a corner. This only happens when it raining, however. Very strange. Anyway - the jobs not too bad, especially if its just the front you're doing. Re the recent thread on dealers and enthusiasts - FWIW, I have dealt with two "Land Rover Centers" since I've owned the RR. The one in Atlanta, (well, Alpharetta-Roswell) GA was very discourteous to my wife when she delivered the vehicle for service and relayed my instructions that I wanted to speak to the Service Manager before they proceeded with any repairs. The guy was a bit incredulous that a Range Rover Owner would actually diagnose and repair his own vehicle, or might actually care about what work was going to be done. I spoke with the Service Manager later, and he treated me a bit better, but it was obvious to me that this outfit is after the "image" market and doesn't give a damn for enthusiasts. Their building is very nice, however. The Center in Greenville, SC, on the other hand, is owned by a real car enthusiast, and it shows. Before they got their full delivery of LRs/RRs, they had his restored Lotus in the showroom. The few times I've been in there, they've even had a Series vehicle or two on the lot, albeit for sale at ridiculous prices. The owner reputedly has bought a barn full of Series Is out of Canada - all need work though, I hear. I was in town right before Christmas, and they brought in their mechanic to do the recall work on my gas tank on a Saturday. Very impressive. Prominently displayed on the end of the front row of their lot was a 1951 88 station wagon! Belongs to the owner - originally a Texas vehicle -100% original condition - perfect frame - screaming out for restoration. The sales guy obviously didn't know anything about Series Vehicles, but invited me to check out the '51 and a '70 IIa they had on the lot when I told him I had done a restoration. This will be my dealer from now on. Scott Fugate 1970 IIa 88 - Beluga light green 1989 RR - Beluga dark green From Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com 8 96 Jan -0500 1917 Date: 8 Jan 96 17:03:01 -0500 From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Subject: RFI: Discovery Front Hitch Receivers I recall a few list readers have installed front hitch receivers to permit temporary winch mounting. I am planning on purchasing such a setup in the next couple of weeks and would appreciate comments from these readers as to who manufactured the receiver, how difficult it was to mount, if there are any drawbacks to the installation (such as reduced ground clearance or approach angle when winch is NOT attached). Also, which of the receiver mounted winches did you purchase and how has it worked out? Reply via email and I will summarize. Thanks! Mark From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Jan 08 14:08:20 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 14:08:20 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: looking for 109 Dave Bobeck wrote: ] 4. Dixon K.- The answer to the question raised in our conversation ] today is that the Serial # does begin with 259, as does the Serial # ] on another local Series 3 that is still owned by its original owner. ] He also thinks ] it's unlikely that many CKD's were shipped here new. So what gives? ] Could it be (gasp) that there is incorrect info on the FAQ? Possibly ] just something overlooked, I would imagine, an honest mistake, right? Damn, I could swear that I added that to the FAQ months ago. The US version of the Series III 88" had it's own Serial number sequence that started with 259. Officially the 259 designates the Federal version SIII 88" Deluxe Hardtop. (It wasn't a Station Wagon because it didn't have the Alpine windows or some such minor details). What is interesting is that the 200 series (of serial numbers) and 300 series Land Rovers are SIIA. 900 series Land Rovers are SIIIs, excepting the US SIII. SIIA NADA 6 cyl were 5224 series and siesl SIII lightweights ere 895 series. The error will be fixed in a few moments. Ben, who's feeling a little red about this because my Rover is 25900409A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Mon Jan 8 17:42:41 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 17:42:41 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Disco questions Still considering a Disco purchase...just paid the Christmas bills and it *might* be possible :-) Anyway, I need the use of four wheel drive for a ski trip in the near future, and due to the fact that my 88 is snowed in with the rear frame still cut off, it's out of the question. (Welding in deep snow is a real bitch...) Is there still a general caveat that new vehicles shouldn't be driven on a long road trip right out of the gate? A while back, there was a thread about getting rings, camshafts, etc to wear in gradually - like not driving on the interstate at a constant speed for a prolonged time. I broke my 88 in gradually 23 years ago. How about the Disco? Also, how do you fit a block heater to a 4.0 V-8? Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "John B. Friedman" Wed Jan 8 16:45:10 1997 Date: Wed, 8 Jan 97 16:45:10 -0600 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Disco ABS light and Mirror My ABS light has been going on for the last month. First it began on its own after I had been driving for a while. It wuold go out when I restarted car and then come on maybe 500 miles or maybe 20 miles. Now it is on all the time no matter what. Yet the battery has never been diosconnected and brakes are fine. Any thoughts? My driver side mirror developed a crack-giving odd prism or bi-focal effect--in our very cold weather. Anyone have experience with replacing the glass only. The housing and adjuster seem fine. Thanks, John Friedman From Simon Barclay Tue Jan 09 09:50:00 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 09:50:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Parts commonality Hi all Just thought you might like to know that I counted 72 Land Rover vehicles on my way to work this morning. This was between 06.45Hrs and about 07.00Hrs (before the rush hour) and only over a distance of about nine or ten miles. (From the Eastern suburbs of Sydney through the harbour tunnel to the Northern suburbs.) Most of these were Disco's, Range Rovers (about 8 new ones) a S2A (ex Army) and a couple of '85ish 110's and a newer Defender tray back. There are probably a few I didn't see hidden behind trucks and buses, but that gives you an idea of how popular they are in Sydney! Ten years ago you might have seen three or four!! Simon Barclay Sydney Australia From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Mon Jan 8 15:56:58 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 15:56:58 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Differentials > Are there any disadvantages to limited-slip differentials? > If not, why aren't they a standard feature of "full-time" 4WD > systems. I have never had one so I do not know about disadvantages. For one though they are expensive. Maybe someone else can address any disadvantages. > As I understand it, when the center differential is unlocked on > my '95 Discovery, loss of traction on one wheel has the potential > to drain power from the other three. I guess I wasn't clear on this. If one wheel slips you only lost traction to the other wheel served bythat diff. A diff only serves the wheels at each end of the axle housing its installed in. So you would need no traction at all on one front wheel and one rear wheel to lose everything. As long as you have some traction (resistance) on a spinning wheel, some traction will be supplied to the other wheel. TeriAnn From "Mugele, Gerry" Mon Jan 08 15:07:00 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 96 15:07:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: 800-FINE-4WD I think they have a rather fundamental problem over at LRNA. I called the LRNA number 800-FINE-4WD to ask if they knew if there were any more D90 SWs available. The nice person on the other end informed me that they are not sold in North America and are only available in Europe, Asia, Australia and Africa. (Didn't mention South America.) I suggested that she was in error and she became somewhat less polite. She repeated herself and so I said that there was a special release of 500 1995s for the NA market. She insisted that I was wrong but that "the D90 Soft Top was available, what is my Zip code?" "Click!" I said. Amazing huh? Their hotline doesn't even know the product line. Gerry M 72 88 *** Life is a Sexually Transmitted Disease and it is invariably fatal. ### - I do not speak for Wells Fargo - Wells Fargo does not speak for me - ### From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Jan 08 16:06:42 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 16:06:42 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Range Rovers off road In message <199601082148.QAA04680@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > TeriAnn, visit http://www.pubsvc.dsr.com/LandRover/adventures.html and you > will see two Range Rovers in fairly extreme offroad conditions. And take a look at http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/Benplay.html and you will see a SIII in action. (more photos will come later of all makes of Rover off road.) > personally have never seen a Series IIa offroad, but I don't continually > remind the mail group of the fact. Personally, I've seen hundreds, from Maine to Virginia to Oregon to Portland. Almost every D90 that I've seen was off Road (dealer's lots excepted). About half of the Discoveries that I've seen were off road. I've seen few Range Rover Classics off road. Does this mean that Rangies aren't good off road vehicles? No. I'd say that stock vehicle vs stock vehicle, I'd take any Land Rover (excepting possible the new Rangie, I don't have any direct experience with them) over any other off road 4x4. Why I was back east in NJ the running joke in High school (by jeepers) was that the sole purpose of Rangie Rovers was to get yuppies and upperclass to the airport when it snowed so that they could get to Florida. IMO the market segment that LR sold Rangies to from 1987 to 1992 in the USA was interested in a luxury car that happened to be a 4x4. So I'm not surprised when I don't see Rangies off-road all that often. Maybe it's that Rangie owners in the US don't want to associate with the Riff-raff that drive Series Rovers. About 9 months ago a serior Land Rover North America employee was asked if LRNA wanted to support a mostly Series LR rally. (2nd hand information as told to me) The response was that Series owners were nothing but rednecks with crudely modified trucks. If that's the attitude of the company, then that would reflect somepart of the attitude of their customers. In general, I agree with TerriAnn, Disco and Range Rover owners don't tend to want to take as many panel bending and frame bashing risks as the Series and Defender90 owners. (I've seen a few D110s off-road but not enough to make an opinion). That is probalby related to the type of person that buys each type of vehicle (and there are exceptions to everything). And of coarse clouding any discussion is that clubs are formed and get members based on how people interact. From what I have gathered the new Southern California Land Rover club gets people mostly from adverts at the dealerships. The mendo_recce group (which is mostly Bay Area based) is a bunch of internet folks who tend to be DYI mechanics and tinkerers. Hence that group tends to be half Series the rest newer vehicles with owners who tend to have that tinkerer mindset. Yes there are Rangie's, and some have a Rangie for everyday and a Series that is used off road, on mendo_recce, but I haven't seen them off road. There are a number of Series Rovers in Los Angeles and San Diego. Somehow I guess they haven't (yet) heard of your club. So any group of Rovers is biased one way or another. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From JEPurnell@aol.com Mon Jan 8 19:33:24 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:33:24 -0500 From: JEPurnell@aol.com Subject: D90 locking gas cap I recently left my gas cap at a fillerup station and remembered a post that David Rosenbaum made a long time ago about a locking gas cap for the Defenders. I found the note and called an auto parts store with the Stant part no., ok, $15.67, not too bad. Had to get a water pump and a timing belt for another car and went to a NAPA store to get it. Asked about the stant number, yup, they had the equivalent, NAPA 703-2103, for $9.99. Sure looks like a Stant. I bought a 1995 D90SW with the savings. John. ps: thanks David. From smitha@candw.lc Mon Jan 8 16:37:15 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:37:15 -0800 From: smitha@candw.lc Subject: Re: RR Bush Replacement, No, this isn't about snow. Or heaters. Couldn't help noticing the bushes/wrench items, as I'm about to do an RH Polybush exchange, and also getting another Sears torque wrench. I got their largest wrench (#44546) last time I passed through Puerto Rico, and it has a range of 25 - 250 ft-lbs. The next one down goes to 80. Are you sure yours is 120? I was disappointed when I first played with mine and noticed that it didn't dial up high enough for some of the figures I was reading in the LR workshop manual. Then I read the back page of the instruction leaflet for the wrench. What I thought was the end of the scale at around 100 ft-lbs was just a tightening up as the figures rose. Hey - it was my first digitork. Tomorrow I'll be passing through Puerto Rico again, and will take the opportunity to get the smallest of the three to be happy about doing heater plugs and valve covers properly. I hate to say it but it is 29 degrees outside. Centigrade. However, while most of the network seem to snowed under they do have the Vehicle to deal with it, and past the last snow drift is a dealership with parts, a hardware store with tools, a service centre with mechanics who use torque wrenches, things that can be taken for granted. Sure, the sun is blazing here, but this is the vehicular version of Desert Island Disks. It is Desert Island Toolkit and Spares Stash. For example. All of the engine oil types available from dealers are listed in the Owner's Manual as being appropriate for emergency use, but to be changed as soon as the real stuff is available. The F-type automatic transmission fluid required for the R380 and other recent gearboxes doesn't exist here. however, that didn't matter as it was not possible to buy the appropriate size torqx (?) male socket to even open the box. An 8mm hex does the job, but it took a lot of my time to find that out. Now I have an 8mm hex on a 1/2 in drive (from NAPA) that allows me to torque correctly. From "Lowe, David" 8 1996 Jan -0800 1915 Date: 8 Jan 1996 15:58:21 -0800 From: "Lowe, David" Subject: Alaska Rovers for Sale In yesterdays digest there was a note from a Paul Spatzek who was looking = for a new used Rover preferably a diesel. Importing one to Alaska can be = expensive at around $2,500 for shipping from the UK or $1,500 from the = lower 48 as we call the rest of the US. A new frame alone from UK is = $2500 delivered in Alaska. There are several decent Rovers for sale between Fairbanks, Anchorage, = and Homer. A nice dark green military looking IIA, 109 Regular, here in = Anchorage with new paint, rear cross member, and new camoflauge interior. = Looks very military, 6 cyl. engine uses some oil but starts and runs = good. It could be converted to desiel if desired cheaper than shipping a = whole vehicle to Alaska. Price $2,500. Also a 109, SIII, Diesel Safari Wagon in Homer that threw a rod and needs = a major engine rebuild. Body and frame OK with some rust around window = frames. Could be had for around $1,000 I think. Its rough but = restorable with a good frame and basically sound but filthy body and = interior. Also a nice low mile 88 SIII in Fairbanks without and engine that could = be had for $3,300. If you are new to Rovers and need to know local sources and fanatics, = give me a call. Buy Alaskan! Dave Lowe (907)564-4792 wk 345-6854 hm From Simon Barclay Tue Jan 09 11:48:00 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 11:48:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: 800-FINE-4WD Just for the record the D90 was never sold in Australia either.... the import duty and tax made it very close in price to the 110!! ---------- From ChrisF6724@aol.com Mon Jan 8 19:50:42 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:50:42 -0500 From: ChrisF6724@aol.com Subject: Re: swaps... Andy, To be honest with you, I hadn't really considered clearance problems with the exhaust manifold. I'll pass along the info to my mechanic. However, if I think I'll be going through axles, I might hold off on the project until I can afford to replace the front and rear end as well... If I go this route, I'll probally strip a IH Scout for its front, rear, brakes, and steering. The scout stuff is really strong (Dana30 & Dana 40 I believe), and very cheap and easily found... This would give me power steering (tilt and telescoping) as well as disk brakes up front and drums in the rear. Not to mention being able to find aftermarket tires,wheels and several different choices of lockers. I will have to make sure the track is close to the original rover though. My mechanic had the exact same engine/trans. setup in a Samurai, and was able to solve the clearance problems. (I'll check and see if he goes through axles because he left the stock ones in place...) How much did it cost you for the RR axles? (I'd prefer to use as much Rover stuff as financially possible). I'm sure I'll end up putting alot of trust in my mechanic (he hasn't converted a Rover before), so any advice is welcome... Chris Fisher '73 88 Series 3 "The Blue Fog" From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 00:44:20 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 00:44:20 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RE: Range Rovers off road Ben, Range Rovers are GREAT vehicles with exceptional capabilities. Let's get real, if you can afford to bash the wings in every other weekend, or blow out a diff and can afford to replace it, then go take them off road. I have 2 Range Rovers now and to be honest, I have yet to take either seriously off-road. I do plan on using my 88 RR to go off-road. However, I will be careful that I don't go dent every panel, as I have to use it for my daily vehicle, to take clients out in it etc. The fact that panels and parts cost a fortune prohibits most from going off-road. I will agree, after living in Greenwich CT, for 3 years, that RR's WERE and STILL are a status symbol to some. God knows the problems I have had with mine and garages, as soon as they see one they think you have $$$$$$. And I don't The fact is this, you can get good 2nd hand vehicles for a fraction of the cost, both of mine have cost less than $33,000 !!!! Less then the 88 RR was new in 1988 !!! I certainly don't have piles of cash to keep repairing them if they break, let alone if I aid breaking or bashing them !! Come on, most people who have RR's do know where they came from heritage wise, that's obvious. I English and saw what went on back home, same thing. We should leave them to enjoy their luxury 4X4. Pay as your money etc. But there is also a huge ownership of 2nd hand vehicles that DO appreciate their heritage and capabilities and that is becoming more obvious on this list. Stop bashing RR owners, and for that matter DISCO owners. They are all Land Rovers, that is all we should care about. I remember someone who shall remain nameless (Dixon Kenner) having a dig about metal dash Land Rovers and SIII plastic dash Land Rovers !!!! Just as an aside, I have had a SIII, sold to get the RR, I have a 109 in a state of repair in the garage and a broken up 71 SIIA at the back of the garage. I used the SIII as a means of taking it off-road as the wife wouldn't let me bash the RR. Hey, I have a friend who will remain nameless, okay I told once already, (Steve Bradke) who treats his SIII like it was a museum piece, nothing wrong with that, and I respect him for it because he wants to look after it, but he did go off-road ONCE, each to his own. Mark ---------- From slade@teleport.com Mon Jan 8 17:09:09 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 17:09:09 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com Subject: D90 Hardtop-Party A friend of mine here in Portland is having a hardtop party wherein he cooks dinner for us and we (whomever shows up) helps him install his hardtop. I know that there have been many discussions regarding this hardtop and it's pros/cons, but I don't remember seeing many installation tips. If there are any things we (I) should know about that would make the installation better/easier/slicker/quicker I'd love to hear about them. Hopefully he cooks something good. Thanks, Michael PS Or should I just stay away? From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 01:07:05 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 01:07:05 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Axle guards Anyone used, bought diff / axle guards for a RR or Disco ? If so where did you get them. I have looked at the southdown products, and they seem okay. Any ideas ? Mark From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 01:05:05 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 01:05:05 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Load space protector Anyone know where ABP gets their supply of RR load space protectors. It's the plastic sheet that fits over the rear cargo area. I'm sure they are cheaper back home in the UK. Obviously they won't tell me where they get them from !!!! Mark From ChrisF6724@aol.com Mon Jan 8 20:11:01 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 20:11:01 -0500 From: ChrisF6724@aol.com Subject: Re: Engine Swaps? Thanks for you interest in the leftover parts... I would very much like to see them reused instead of melted into scrap. The project will hopefully start sometime this spring (I still have to sell my other car, '92 Honda Prelude, great shape, low miles, low,low price...;-) ) I will keep your name in my file. I'll probally have to get rid of most of the gauges (I'll try and reuse what I can of those) and electric's as well as other misc. parts like radiator, run off, air filter,... The engine is in bad shape. Right now it runs, but not well. It's got water in the oil and I think the rings are shot (hence the occassional blue smoke, but it doesn't "rattle" so it might be the valves...). A tune-up (excluding tappet adjustment) did not help. It also drinks oil like it's going out of style (quart a week) and has low oil pressure. The tranny on the other hand is workin great except for a slipping clutch. (I haven't found anyone yet who will adjust it for a reasonable price) Anyone know a easy way to adjust the clutch w/o having to remove the drivers side wing? The transfer case also is in good working condition (shifts smooth and doesn't grind at all). I'm not sure yet if the preliminary estimate included a "trade-in" allowance, but I definately mean to find out and will let you know as the parts become available. Chris Fisher '73 88 Series 3 "The Blue Fog" From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Jan 08 17:24:47 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 17:24:47 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Range Rovers off road Mark Talbot wrote: Sigh, I knew better than to get embroiled in this... ] Range Rovers are GREAT vehicles with exceptional capabilities. No where was I saying that Rangies weren't good vehicles. All I was saying was the pattern of use that I've observed. That's it. And I forgot to add in closing in the last message that any stock 4x4 that survives the Camel Trophy is (in my book) one of the best 4x4s built. So that includes Range Rover Classics, SIIIs, D90s, D110s, D130s, and Discoveries. (the new Range Rover (mk2 <-a designation that I used to keep them separate) and the "Adventurer" (or what ever it is to be called) have yet so attempt my litmus test so I don't have an opinion for or against them yet. ] I do plan on using my 88 RR to go off-road. However, I will be careful that I ] don't go dent every panel, as I have to use it for my daily vehicle, to take ] clients out in it etc. The fact that panels and parts cost a fortune ] prohibits most from going off-road. And that might be the reason that I and others have observered fewer Rangies off road than any other type of Land Rover. When I off-road I don't try and dent panels. I was referring to trails on which panel bashing was a risk, not a certainty. I find those trails to be more challenging and hence more interesting. For others, that risk is too high. That was all that I was saying, that's all. And my Rover is my daily drive. It is my only vehicle. If I break it, I walk to work until I get parts. ] Come on, most people who have RR's do know where they came from heritage wise ] that's obvious. For owners that bought new since the D110 came to America I would have to agree with you. Before then, they didn't even know what a "Land Rover" was. ] But there is also a huge ownership of 2nd hand vehicles that DO appreciate ] their heritage and capabilities and that is becoming more obvious on this ] list. And hopefully I'll meet them on the trail on day. Even on easy stuff like the Mojave Road. (There is nothing better than a day spent odd pavement with a bunch of LROs with their Land Rovers--well, ok, maybe 2 days...) ] I remember someone who shall remain nameless (Dixon Kenner) having a dig ] about metal dash Land Rovers and SIII plastic dash Land Rovers !!!! That's because he couldn't open his beer on the dash. I've since found a point on the SIII (and SIIA, SII..) that will do the same thing so he's lost that point. ] I used the SIII as a means of taking it off-road as the wife wouldn't ] let me bash the RR. Actually that is very common. ] Hey, I have a friend who will remain nameless, okay I told once already, ] (Steve Bradke) who treats his SIII like it was a museum piece, nothing wrong ] with that, and I respect him for it because he wants to look after it, but he ] did go off-road ONCE, each to his own. Ok, just to be clear here. I think that percentage wise more D90s and Series vehicles are used off road (and for more challenging terrain) than Discoveries and Range Rovers. Does this mean that all of these vehicles can't take it and are not all fully capable? No. Are there exceptions? Yes. All it does is reflect how they are used by the general public in the US. That's it. And the rest of my previous post was trying to explain why certain vehicles are used off-road less than others. And why some people see more of Land Rover type X than Land Rover type Y when off road. As always, YMMV. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "Dean Cording" Tue Jan 9 12:45:17 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:45:17 +1000 From: "Dean Cording" Subject: Re: Differentials > > As I understand it, when the center differential is unlocked on > > my '95 Discovery, loss of traction on one wheel has the potential [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > have some traction (resistance) on a spinning wheel, some traction will be > supplied to the other wheel. > TeriAnn Sorry TeriAnn but you got it wrong. What you said only applies to part time 4wd vehicles like Series LR which don't have a centre diff. If a wheel starts to spin on a full time 4wd and the centre diff isn't locked then all power will be transferred to the spinning wheel. Dean 77 Series III Game From sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Tue Jan 9 02:55:38 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 02:55:38 +0100 From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Subject: Range Rover parts Hi folks, I am looking for adresses of a french supplier of Range Rover parts. Especially in diff-protectors and front and rear skid plates. They are called Allmakes and the second is ETT (Eggenspiller tout terrain). If anyone has their adresses or fax-numbers I would be glad if he could mail them to me. Thanks for your efforts Kurt 88 Range 2 door diesel (regular taken off road) ....Yes, I wave to every Land Rover From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 02:06:07 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 02:06:07 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RE: Range Rovers off road Ben, No problem, I totally understand where you are going from, just trying to make sure that newer Land Rover owners get a fair crack. To be honest, 98% of the $55K RR owners have no intention of going off -road, they are treating those RR's like a Merc or Lexus etc. Shame but that is a fact. I plan on taking my 88 RR to Colorado for this mega Land Rover gathering in August this year. I'm looking forward to going over the great divide, with Steve Bradke as my partner, navigator. So if your going, you will se at least this RR owner going for it. Rgds Mark ---------- From Hugo Madden Mon Jan 8 18:17:32 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:17:32 -0800 From: Hugo Madden Subject: Re: Differentials >Sorry TeriAnn but you got it wrong. What you said only applies to >part time 4wd vehicles like Series LR which don't have a centre diff. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >isn't locked then all power will be transferred to the spinning >wheel. Oh, yup but if the centre diff has viscous coupling it'll lock up real fast! _______ //_/_|__\___ \_ - ___ - _d (o) (o) From Simon Barclay Tue Jan 09 13:16:00 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 13:16:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Range Rovers off road Just to throw fuel on to the fire..... .... no-one out there seems to remember in 1956/57 an expedition from Oxford (??) University, sponsored by Shell and Dunlop using 2 Land Rovers were the first vehicles every to drive (I use this term loosely as they in the spirit of the Camel' had to build most of the tracks) across Columbia - trying to blaze this part of the Pan American Highway. (Ref: The Wild Roads - Transcontinental Motoring last published 1968). [I have further details if any one wants them. This is a fascinating book.] Then in 1973 British Army Officers (amongst others) using Range Rovers were the first to cross the hither to uncrossed by wheeled vehicle Darian Isthmus (also part of the Pan American Highway). Though I do recall that Series LR's were also used to cut trails!! I guess this tells us that all are very capable vehicles, maybe the MkII Range Rover (as Ben calls it) can cross the North/South Pole to prove the point. Some of these details maybe slightly in error, as I'm writing this from memory, but the essence is correct. Simon Barclay Sydney Australia From Hugo Madden Mon Jan 8 18:19:28 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:19:28 -0800 From: Hugo Madden Subject: Fwd: Re: Differentials Sorry TeriAnn but you got it wrong. What you said only applies to part time 4wd vehicles like Series LR which don't have a centre diff. If a wheel starts to spin on a full time 4wd and the centre diff isn't locked then all power will be transferred to the spinning wheel. Dean 77 Series III Game _______ //_/_|__\___ \_ - ___ - _d (o) (o) From philr@ozemail.com.au (Phil Rofe) Tue Jan 9 12:15:33 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:15:33 +0930 From: philr@ozemail.com.au (Phil Rofe) Subject: heating passengers in a series 3 88 Dear all Having been 'lurking' for several weeks now and marvelling at the stories of ice and snow, I in the depths pf tropical Australia (Darwin, Northern Territory) have been wondering if any have had (or needed) the experience of cooling a series 3 down. Specifically, the passenger side foot well seems to become almost too hot to touch. I am hoping that there perhaps exhists an exhaust pipe heat shield or some such as original equipment on the series 88 and perhaps I should get serious about finding one. Bye the way an important consideration could be that Darwin's day time temperature sits around 32 degrees C with a humidiity of about 70 %...it is supposed to be the 'wet season' but the rain seems to have moved to the East! Any comments would be appreciated; until then I'll drive the Defender 110 with the aircon turned up except when the temperature drops below 28! Phil Darwin NT Australia 1993 Depender 200 TDi 1975 series 3 88 From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Mon Jan 8 18:49:36 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:49:36 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Snow, Ice and Disco ABS Mark sez.... >Some gut named Amadeo just wrote: > > .......snip....... >I don't know who this guy is but he doesn't know what the hell he is talking >about. Both the Disco and the RR have the same 4 channel ABS systems. Mine - Ignore him! From his posts, he is a salesman at a Rover dealership, but IMHO he should be selling yuppiemobiles and not Land Rovers... Cheers Mike From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Mon Jan 8 18:49:37 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:49:37 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Range Rovers off road >TeriAnn, visit http://www.pubsvc.dsr.com/LandRover/adventures.html and you >will see two Range Rovers in fairly extreme offroad conditions. I >personally have never seen a Series IIa offroad, but I don't continually >remind the mail group of the fact. - Pttttttt.... I've seen Series I's, II's, IIa's, III's, 101's, Range Rovers, Discoveries and D90's off road. Through some pretty nasty stuff, too. They all looked marvelous and all the drivers had big grins! Cheers Mike From aminner@ix.netcom.com (Allen Minner ) Mon Jan 8 18:43:19 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:43:19 -0800 From: aminner@ix.netcom.com (Allen Minner ) Subject: Re: West Coast Rover List Hi and Happy New Year to All! I have seen several mentions of a West Coast Land Rover List... How can I find it. Any help or an address would be appreciated. Allen Minner Still Shopping for my Range Rover... From David Rosenbaum Mon Jan 8 18:44:18 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 18:44:18 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: D90 locking gas cap On Mon, 8 Jan 1996 JEPurnell@aol.com wrote: (SNIP) I found the note and called an auto parts store with the Stant > part no., ok, $15.67, not too bad. Had to get a water pump and a timing belt > for another car and went to a NAPA store to get it. Asked about the stant > number, yup, they had the equivalent, NAPA 703-2103, for $9.99. Sure looks > like a Stant. I bought a 1995 D90SW with the savings. Dear John, I'll gladly trade you my Stant cap for your '95 D90SW. I'll even *deliver* the cap!! ;-) -David From Wdcockey@aol.com Mon Jan 8 21:49:13 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 21:49:13 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Differentials In a message dated 96-01-08 21:23:05 EST, Dan wrote: "Sorry TeriAnn but you got it wrong. What you said only applies to part time 4wd vehicles like Series LR which don't have a centre diff. If a wheel starts to spin on a full time 4wd and the centre diff isn't locked then all power will be transferred to the spinning wheel." Actually TeriAnn has it right. And Dan's statement is also correct. Both wheels on an axle with an open diff will see the same torque and the same tractive force. If one wheel is spinning it will be at the level of the spinning wheel. Likewise with an open center diff both axles see the same torque, so all four wheels see the same tractive force, and if a wheel is spinning it is the tractive force of the spinning wheel. Now power is force times speed, and thus power is only flowing through the spinning wheels. But all wheels are contributing to the tractive force. Confused enough? David Cockey From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Jan 08 19:08:13 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 19:08:13 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: West Coast Rover List :Hi and Happy New Year to All! : :I have seen several mentions of a West Coast Land Rover List... How can :I find it. Any help or an address would be appreciated. Allen Minner, Write to Benjamin Allan Smith to join, he's the volunteer listmeister. Send messages to the group at >Still Shopping for my Range Rover... May all your troubles be Rover! Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From David Rosenbaum Mon Jan 8 19:55:58 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 19:55:58 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: D90 Hardtop-Party Dear Michael: I don't have the hardtop, but here are some bits of previous posts to the Digest: 10/16/95 from Francis Twarog: ...don't put those damn riv-nuts into spaces that don't need them. Simply meaning the first bolt just behind the door (right in front of the cage) can have a conventional bolt/nut setup without the hassle of loosening a riv-nut (not what you want to do when it is the last bolt you need to tighten) - also, you don't need to put a riv-nut in the hole just in front of the rear roll cage section - this too is easily reachable with a ratchet.... ...Also, is it me or did other people have to also trim the plastic pieces that the visors screw through - the long ones on either side of the interior light unit. Both of them conflicted with the fiberglas top, so I trimmed a little bit off the edge to allow them to fit cleanly.... 12/01/95 from Anthony Verriello: ...I would not recommend installing it yourself the first time. Drilling and installing the riv-nuts will most likely not be worth the savings on the installation cost (6-8 hours of labor)... ...Removing and reinstalling is straight forward... ...Installing the second time: takes 2 people Hints: Takes five hours....Do it before it gets cold:lining-up holes is nearly impossible and dangerous when the fiberglas is brittle from the cold...make sure you have all the bits of hardware that you need Wires to overhead lights need to go under the top, not in the door jamb. Be patient and follow the instructions. 12/13/95 from Rick Larson: ...You'll also need the front driver and passenger door weather stripping. I'd expect that this comes with the top but you may want to check. ...You may want to reinforce the side-top screws with larger washers. I think I'm going to go with thin flat metal plates down the entire side. I've already had two bolts that have pulled through the fiberglass. Even on-road there seems to be a lot of flexing. ...Pay attention to the seals when installing the top. Will make a big difference in the rain. Wish I had :( ...Biggest problem I've found is that on the road the door windows tend to bow out, creating air/water leaks and annoying whistle... 12/13/95 from Mike Fredette: ...94's need to have the rear latch replaced with a keyed latch. ...94's: you get to cut a new notch in the new hardtop since the notch already there is in the wrong place (for '94s) (95s have the riv-nuts already installed, 94's do not) Good luck with the project! Please let me know how it turns out, and any further tips that you come up with. Until I finish paying off my '94D90, I can only dream about more goodies. It sounds like the riv-nuts maybe the worst of the project. If you're working on a '95, then *no problem* [My only experience with riv-nuts was while installing front mudflaps: not much fun, but wouldn't have mattered if I had screwed up.] Finally, I suspect that it is essential to have some *Guinness* at the party. In view of what others have posted about the importance of getting things to fit right, the Guinness is probably best left until after the top is on. Then, regardless of how the work went, you can get it to look *PERFECT* by simply imbibing the right amount of stout. Best wishes! David From CORD5@aol.com Mon Jan 8 23:03:27 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 23:03:27 -0500 From: CORD5@aol.com Subject: Any reason? Any particular reason nobody answered my question? If it is becuase I don't own a LR, that's too bad. Once again, are Rovers significantly cheaper in Europe? What does a D90 or Disco go for? When did Discos start being sold in Europe? Cord ps - if you don't want to respond to a non lr owner publicly, you can email me. From "Dean Cording" Tue Jan 9 15:29:19 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 15:29:19 +1000 From: "Dean Cording" Subject: Re: heating passengers in a series 3 88 > Having been 'lurking' for several weeks now and marvelling at the stories > of ice and snow, I in the depths pf tropical Australia (Darwin, Northern [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > exhists an exhaust pipe heat shield or some such as original equipment on > the series 88 and perhaps I should get serious about finding one. You could try wrapping some exhaust heat sheilding tape (I forget its proper name) around the pipe. The tape is essentially an insulator. > Bye the way an important consideration could be that Darwin's day time > temperature sits around 32 degrees C with a humidiity of about 70 %...it > is supposed to be the 'wet season' but the rain seems to have moved to the > East! Your not wrong. We have received nearly four times our average monthly rainfall so far, and there's still three weeks to go. My Series III may never dry out. As it is all the windows fog up when the sun comes out. Dean Series III Game From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Mon Jan 8 23:31:04 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 23:31:04 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Frame overs Michael Carradine writes: >**Voila** all done... sounds much harder than it actually is....Maybe on >your next frameover you can try the Western Underbody method. I dunno, Michael. Kinda sounds like the LR manual "offer the gearbox to the engine...." or "Reverse steps 1-14..." *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Mon Jan 8 20:13:42 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 20:13:42 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Differentials >another question, though: Are there any disadvantages to limited- >slip differentials? If not, why aren't they a standard feature of >"full-time" 4WD systems. As I understand it, when the center >differential is unlocked on my '95 Discovery, loss of traction on >one wheel has the potential to drain power from the other three. This is true. When driving on low-traction surfaces (dirt, gravel, mud, etc.) you should lock the center diff so you have to lose traction on BOTH a front-tire and a back-tire before you are spinning helplessly. >That potential, in turn, would seem to take away some of the >advantages of a "full-time" system when driving on the road in >areas where one might encounter, say, patchy ice or mixed snow and >dry pavement. This, too, is a serious question. Thanks in advance. I don't know if it takes anything away, it's just that there are more options available than are found on the standard equipment list. The Range Rover addresses the traction problem quite effectively (so I understand) by modulating the brakes of the spinning tire (sort-of a reverse ABS, if you will) but that comes at a significant extra cost and you can't get them on a Disco. Likewise you can add limited-slip differentials of the various types previously described, however they also introduce a variety of handling "personality traits" (such as wheel wear, jerking, fish-tailing, thunking and clunking, etc.) as well as additional cost and strain on the drive-line depending on the type installed. Not every one wants to have that in thier car. Those that do buy them as aftermarket options. Another thing to consider is that since it's all about traction, you might think about changing the tires your driving conditions. While the stock michelins are very good tires, in general, you might think about using studded snow tires if you drive in snow & ice or some other tire more suited to your driving conditions. This is alot easier (though not necessarily cheaper) to change than your differential innards. With some off-road driving practice and/or classes and a little practice, I think you'll find the Discovery to be quite capable "off-the-rack". There are certainly things you can add to it, depending on how/where you plan to use it. Likewise, there are places and times that it just won't go no matter what you do to it, you just have to go farther than the average SUV to find them :-) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From ASFCO@aol.com Mon Jan 8 23:49:47 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 23:49:47 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Off Road Adventure (s) All; Just wanted to clarify what Mark Talbot said regarding my ONE off road experience...It has actually been FIVE.... once in the woods at the end of the street for a photo...once in Maine at last years rally. I was with Mark at the Saturday off road event with his Series lll while our wives were in my s lll in Camden on a shopping spree. Towards the end of the day they pulled into the event area which was well off the road..AND the next day at the airport rally site where I had to drive over the grass to the display area...................................... and once at Ray and Heather Dixons infamous Rocky Road tour in NH where thanks to Ray I did manage to get that Rover of mine very dirty,. even had a small tree growing out of the spare tire on the bonnet thanks to Marks dad Trevor who was visiting from the UK and was along for the ride. OK thats FOUR...... well....FIVE if you count jumping a curb and climbing a small hill to get to Ray and Heathers house for the BBQ....BTW couldn't make it up the hill ..my tires are like bologna skins...... had to go around the corner and use the driveway. And Yes I did run out of gas on the way to Maine last year .. and it was Mark Talbot who saved me... Thanks Mark you're a good friend and a True L-R fanatic !!!!! Regards To All Steve WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 From "Walter C. Swain" Mon Jan 8 20:56:49 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 20:56:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: heating passengers in a series 3 88 On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Phil Rofe wrote: > Having been 'lurking' for several weeks now and marvelling at the stories of ice and snow, I in the depths pf tropical Australia (Darwin, Northern Territory) have been wondering if any have had (or needed) the experience of cooling a series 3 down. Specifically, the passenger side foot well seems to become almost too hot to touch. I am hoping that there perhaps exhists an exhaust pipe heat shield or some such as original equipment on the series 88 and perhaps I should get serious about finding one. Phil, Last summer (July here) I experienced a similar problem, but it was my foot that was suffering, not my passenger's (LHD). I installed a genuine exhaust manifold heat shield, just a piece of sheet metal, and it solved the problem beautifully. I recommend them highly, and they are relatively inexpensive, too. Don't forget to order all the mounting hardware at the same time. Rgds, * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From Jeff & Laura Kessler Mon Jan 8 23:37:46 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 23:37:46 -0500 From: Jeff & Laura Kessler Subject: Range Rover sidelined again Sorry about the double entry in yesterday's digest. The problem I thought was a frozen fuel line is back. My RR does not want to start again. Only 10 F ABOVE 0 but windy. The engine cranks and we jumped it to insure plenty of volts and we are getting a spark at the plugs. We tried some starter fluid but that did not help. We think something is keeping it from getting the fuel but what? It ran fine this morning and at lunch time but after work, nothing. Any thoughts? Thanks. Jeff Kessler 88 RR Newport NH 603-863-7883 work 603-526-4741 From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Jan 08 21:36:42 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 21:36:42 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Any reason? In message <199601090404.XAA05268@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > Any particular reason nobody answered my question? If it is becuase I don't > own a LR, that's too bad. Probably because people didn't have the information in front of them when they saw your post. > Once again, are Rovers significantly cheaper in > Europe? What does a D90 or Disco go for? Land Rover Prices (as reported in the August 1995 LRO, p.16) Tdi=300 Turbo Diesel Engine (not availible in the US) V8i=I assume this is the 3.9 V8 found in the US 2.5 DT = Diesel, I think the naturally aspirated 4 cylinder, but I not sure (I assumed 1 UK pound=$1.66 US) IK price In US$ US Availibility & Discovery MSRP 3dr Mpi L18,400 $30,544 N/A 3dr Tdi L19,250 $31,955 N/A 3dr V8i L19,700 $32,702 N/A 5dr Mpi L20,450 $33,947 N/A 5dr Tdi L21,300 $35,358 N/A 5dr MPi S L21,635 $35,914 N/A 5dr Tdi S L22,485 $37,325 N/A 5dr V8i S L22,935 $38,072 $29,950 (not sure which is US 5dr Tdi XS L24,995 $41,492 N/A model) 5dr V8i XS L25,445 $42,238 $29,950 5dr Tdi ES L28,450 $47,227 N/A 5dr V8i ES L28,900 $47,974 $29,290 Ranger Rover (mkII) 4.0 L32,850 $54,531 N/A 2.5 DT L32,850 $54,531 N/A 4.0 SE L37,200 $61,752 $54,000 2.5 DSE L37,200 $61,752 N/A 4.6 HSE L44,850 $74,451 $62,650 Defender 90 Soft Top ??? ??? $28,650 V8 engine Pick-up Tdi L14,981 $24,869 N/A HardTop Tdi L13,483 $22,382 N/A Station Wagon Tdi L16,978 $28,184 $29,000 V8 Unclear if County County Station Wagon Tdi L17,730 $29,432 or not. Only 500. Defender 110 Pickup Tdi L16,332 $27,111 N/A High Cap Tdi L17,037 $28,281 N/A Hard Top Tdi L17,037 $28,281 N/A County Station Wagon Tdi L20,268 $33,645 $40,000 Sold only in 1993 and 500 imported. Used prices var from $38,000 to $48,000 Defender 130 CrewCab Tdi L23,494 $39,000 N/A Range Rover Classic Tdi Man L29,475 $48,929 N/A Vogue SE L37,230 $61,802 unknown, few left on lots. about $50,000 > When did Discos start being sold in Europe? The Discovery was introduced at the Franfurt (Germany) Auto show in September 1989. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Jan 08 21:44:40 1996 Date: Mon, 08 Jan 1996 21:44:40 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Off Road Adventure (s) In message <199601090450.XAA05336@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: ] Towards the end of the day ] they pulled into the event area which was well off the road..AND the next day ] at the airport rally site where I had to drive over the grass to the display ] area (snip) ] And ] Yes I did run out of gas on the way to Maine last year .. and it was Mark ] Talbot who saved me... Now that's all quite odd. I was the SIII 88" that stopped right after Mark left to get gas. The Rover world is quite small. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Hugo Madden Mon Jan 8 22:10:31 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 22:10:31 -0800 From: Hugo Madden Subject: Re: Re: Re:Differentials >If a wheel starts to spin on a full time 4wd and the centre diff >isn't locked then all power will be transferred to the spinning [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >Now power is force times speed, and thus power is only flowing through the >spinning wheels. But all wheels are contributing to the tractive force. >Confused enough? Yes well of course an open diff transmits exactly equal torque to each axle but if one wheel is spinning in free air so the torque on all four wheels is close to zero that doesn't really help you if you're stuck in a snow drift now does it? _______ //_/_|__\___ \_ - ___ - _d (o) (o) From "John C. White, III" Mon Jan 8 22:34:32 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 22:34:32 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Disco questions The manual says not to push the Disco to freeway speed for at least 500 miles. I took mine on a 6,500 mile road trip right after the break-in period. It now has 15,000 miles and seems okay so far. Cheers! John '95 Discovery At 17:42 08.01.96 -0500, Alexander P. Grice wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Still considering a Disco purchase...just paid the Christmas bills and it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | > *-----------------------------------------------------* From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Jan 9 17:21:48 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:21:48 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: heating passengers in a series 3 88 > of cooling a series 3 down. Specifically, the passenger side foot well > seems to become almost too hot to touch. I am hoping that there perhaps > exhists an exhaust pipe heat shield or some such as original equipment on > the series 88 and perhaps I should get serious about finding one. Hi Phil, The approach we took was different. We got some closed cell foam, like used bushwalking sleeping mats. there are p[lenty of camping stores up there now so should bve easy to get cheap ones. Cut them to fit over the floor, then get a piece of heavyish rubber matting to hold it down. Doesnt stop the problem completely but does help a lot. One side effect to be aware of. When water gets under the foam, like a reynolds crossing or you leave the window open one night, it gets real slippery. Passengers beware. Being in Darwin, and a land-rover person presumably you have run into Ray West, If not look for him under "Ray West projector sales and service" He is a mine of information and LR expertise. I'd be real interested to find out how his 109 6x6 finished up. Tell him I say "Hi" cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Tue Jan 9 17:53:34 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 17:53:34 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: heating passengers in a series 3 88 Others may have more specific replies but here's my 2 cents worth. Discussions in car type newsgroups (aus.cars) seems to always recommend some special type of wrap on exhaust heat shield which is apparantly available from auto parts stores which cater to the speed set, though the context of this solution is usually aftermarket headers frying electrics. >From a bit of thermal engineering I did many years ago, I seem to remember that Aluminium reflects heat better than almost anything else, hence foil type insulation products. Multiple layers of aluminium separated by an air gap or insulating material work best. The early Isuzu diesel engined 110's in Australia had a bit of a design problem in that the exhaust manifold melted the plastic air con box (on air con models). I recently repaired mine with epoxy and glass fibre and made up an aluminium heat shield which comprised 2 sheets of rigid Aluminium sheet pop rivetted together with 2 or three washers separating the sheets at each rivet - hence an air gap of a few mm. This backyard heat shield seems to be working well as does my air con which no longer blows into the engine bay. James Carley Sydney Australia '85 110 3.9D From JCassidyiv@aol.com Tue Jan 9 02:03:02 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 02:03:02 -0500 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Yahoo!-I got stuck! It's 01:59 here in Bangor, Maine and I'm slowly warming up after getting my 1987 RR stuck in a ditch about 2.5 hours ago! Much time spent on my back in the snow with a shovel. To make a long story shorter, I was driving along a road with lots of drifting snow with a friend as co-pilot and we hit a raised ridge of powder in the middle of the road and floated off to the shoulder(which you couldn't see because the road and the ditch were level). Once in the ditch, we sank through two layers of hardpack snow which the front of the frame came to rest on. We dug out the whole truck, but all she did was spin. Said friend walked to his house toget his S-10 Blazer, but it didn't have the guts to pull us out(thanks to the Rover Gods for sparing me the emmbarassment!) Finally found an acquaintance at the local truck stop with a 1-ton Chevy with dual rear wheels who had a full load of sand to pull her out. His truck almost couldn't do it because of the poor traction. We finally got unstuck-I cancelled my call to AAA-and we all went back to the truck stop for coffee. I broke almost every off-roading/snow driving rule, but man did we make some memories! The truck is fine and there were no personal injuries. We couldn't stop chuckling over coffee-I guess it was due to exhaustion. The guy who pulled us out simply asked-"How much does that thing weigh, anyway!?" Cheers! Be careful in the snow! John From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Mon Jan 8 23:11:42 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 23:11:42 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Discovery-Stuck in the Snow Have you tried this method? Does it stink (from burning brakes & revving engine)? ---------- From Mr Ian Stuart Tue Jan 9 08:08:57 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 08:08:57 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Any reason? On 8 Jan 96, CORD5@aol.com wrote: > don't own a LR, that's too bad. I rise to your challenge... > Once again, are Rovers significantly cheaper in Europe? What does a > D90 or Disco go for? When did Discos start being sold in Europe? Cord > ps - if you don't want to respond to a non lr owner publicly, you can > email me. OK, you have a couple of factors here: spec and driving poition... One of the cheapest places to buy a second hand Land Rover is the UK, but the vehicles are right-hand drive To get the 3.9V8, D90 with integral roll-cage, you must buy in the US - it's a US specific vehicle. Price - varies acording to country & condition.... My advice is to avoid the mega-hassle of trying to import a non-US vehicle into the US. ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or Quote of 1995: "The archididascalus is to be rusticated and will cease to be an abecedarian on the 1st of April" From Mike Dryfoos Mon Jan 8 23:37:54 1996 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 23:37:54 -0800 From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: 8:1 compression and D90 hard tops A couple of comments on recent topics. This fall I had my SIIA 88" ground down to an 8:1 head, in conjunction with installing hardened valve seals and a ring job. I find it makes a noticeable but not dramatic difference in power. I can keep up on the freeway a little better, anyway. On the downside, my local LR guru (Gordon Perrott of Seattle) tells me that I need to burn high-octane fuel. Given the thirst of the IIA, this gets pretty expensive - just like the Range Rover! I dropped by the local LR dealer this weekend to see if they had any D90 SW to examine. They had presold the three that they had, and couldn't get any more. They did have a D90 with fiberglass hard top that someone had traded in after owning for a week (!). This being Seattle, it was raining, and it was amusing to see that the front seats were getting dripped on through the top door seals just as badly as in my SIIA. That's one D90 that is upholding the true LR heritage, I guess. From "T.F. Mills" Tue Jan 9 01:40:38 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 01:40:38 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: colorado event Tom Rowe asks: Awhile back someone posted tentative info about a LR gathering in Colorado this summer. When and where is it? I didn't save what was posted. I'd like to try to make this year. It's the National Rally (you too can have one in your backyard and call it "national"), tentatively scheduled for Aug. 8-14 in the environs of Crested Butte, Colorado. No other details yet. Last time we were in the area, rally included a stop-off in Aspen, Land Rover capital of the US. It's plushmobileville. I was there at Christmas and saw 2 or 3 RRs on every block, including several 4.6. It's great fun showing off a decrepit old Series vehicle in that town -- something akin to Lawrence of Arabia driving straight out of the desert into Buckingham Palace. In fact, people kept yelling "Hey, Lawrence!" at me. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From "Steve Reddock" Tue Jan 09 05:31:59 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 05:31:59 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Speedos, brakes (sort of) & wierd submissions HI all, First of all I have 15 inch wheels and a 16" LWB (I do not mean the wheel base is 16"!!!). The total diameter of the tyre is similar to a 750, hence the speedo is accurate. The tyres where 31x10.5x15. Now my tyres are 30x9.5x15 which by my maths is a difference in diameter of 3.3% so the speedo and odometer over read by 3.3%. Big deal you are allowed 10%. Andy wibbled: >odd hole & dents, cheers Steve. As I said at the time I was giving it a Land Rover polish. Also the trees looked softer than the dry stone wall on the other side! If anybody has been confused by my submissions in the last few days it is entirely due to mental failure on my part, I have been replying to threads on the uk-lro list but sending the reply to this list. Normal service may resume soon. Have fun, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From Harrington Andrew Richard (eb2_95) Tue Jan 9 14:14:03 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 14:14:03 GMT From: Harrington Andrew Richard (eb2_95) Subject: brake problem again Dear Dixon The problem is trying to keep the presure. I am not losing fluid at all. After the second press of the brakes the presure is back, but then goes again, so I can drive it but I have to press the brakes twice to get any presure. I have also tryed adjusting the shoe distance. Cheers, Andy Harrington. From crash@merl.com Tue Jan 9 09:06:33 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:06:33 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Disco won't start I've seen this. The trick is that the new Discos lock out the starter motor when the pendant is used to lock the car and a key is used to unlock it, or something like that. Close the car up, and lock/unlock it with the pendant a few times. Then get in, put it in neutral, push down both the clutch and the brake, and try starting it. It worked for at least one. -Bill From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 9 08:36:19 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 08:36:19 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Range Rovers off road Simon Barclay writes: snip > Then in 1973 British Army Officers (amongst others) using Range Rovers were > the first to cross the hither to uncrossed by wheeled vehicle Darian Isthmus > (also part of the Pan American Highway). Though I do recall that Series > LR's were also used to cut trails!! An old 88 was airlifted in when the RR's couldn't cut it, but, Actually a Jeep PU and Land Rover 109 5 door crossed it in the late 50's. There's an article in a 1959? Natioanal Geographic. I have the issue at home, but I'm sure someone on the list knows the month & year by memory. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Stuart Williams Tue Jan 09 09:54:00 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 09:54:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: The Better Half (more ways than one) ... > Duncan > PS Hey Stuart, I'll come pick you up for work tomorrow if your wife > insists it's her turn for the Disco, heh heh heh... Sigh. They even mention snow around here and my wife grabs the Disco keys, leaving me with the old LandBruiser. True, it's a capable machine but not quite on the same level of sophistication what with its manual choke, manual hubs, manual transmission, etc. Heck, I might as well be driving a Series vehicle ! ;^). Actually, I think that I'll be seriously in the market for a used Rangie (i.e. something that my wife will drive) to replace the LC sometime before the next "storm of the century", and those seem to be coming just about every year. Maybe this summer. Anybody see the footage from New York City on NBC last night? One of the video clips clearly showed a white D-90 as just about the only traffic coming down one of the main avenues ... Stuart (digging out from under 24" of powder) Williams '95 Discovery V8i '85 LandCruiser From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 9 08:31:30 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 08:31:30 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Discovery Ground Clearance Roger Peng writes: " If you take a look at a typical U.S. 4WD magazine, almost every truck featured has a lift and large tires." That's why I don't buy those rags anymore. Got tired of the glorification of $50,000-$250,000 dollar rigs that were just for show. and " Due to limited wheelwell space, I don't think it would be easy to fit larger tires on a Discovery, nor do I know of any lift kits made for this vehicle. Would anyone care to comment regarding this issue?" Land Rover has always emphasized their vehicles as being able to attain a high side angle without rollover. Every inch you add to height raises your likelyhood of rolling over. Now, I've never looked at a Discovery up close so I can't comment on larger tires, but I'd be supprised if someone in the UK didn't make a kit to allow at least a little larger tires. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "John Y. Liu" Tue Jan 09 06:29:18 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 06:29:18 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Newbie to the group At 03:42 PM 1/7/96 -0900, you wrote: >My main questions are: >2)I've been looking at all the bookstores, but NOBODY carries LR Books. Could >the group recommend a good text or two to get me started. I can always order if >I know what books are best. James Taylor's book is good. You can order from British Pacific, 800 554 4133. >3) As to vehicle choice, I'm leaning towards something in an ex-mod type >vehicle. I tend towards the lightweight diesel type, but a ex-mod LWB diesel >would be ok too. I prefer diesel, better life, fuel economy and easier to get >into the country. Also less to go wrong, ie plugs, points, condenser, much >simpler, electically and mechanically. I don't have a diesel, so this is not wholly authoritative advice, but I believe diesels are remarkably gutless on the road. Even a petrol is quite unmotivated on the highway, especially in a LWB. I was under the impression diesels present problems in very cold weather but you'd know more about that than I. LR diesels are not reputed to be as long-lived as LR petrol engines. And the petrol ignition system is about as simple and troublefree as you could imagine. Once it's in good shape, you shouldn't expect much to go wrong. Overall, unless you want maximum power on the road (go petrol), or expect to do a lot of deep wading (go diesel), I'd think you should get the truck in the best condition and not worry too much about the diesel/petrol choice. >4)Why ex mod? Several reasons actually, the first being price, I've seen prices >for ex-mod vehicles that appear VERY reasonable. Second, I belong to the Alaska >State Defense Force, (state equivalent of the Alaska National Guard) and we have >outings for training and also several combined gun/vehicle shows per year. This >vehicle would alternate with my Ford Bronco as a daily driver and kind of rough >and ready show vehicle. Most any LR is a very rough and ready vehicle anway. I don't think the ex-MOD's would be any more so. I'd avoid the 24 volt systems. Welcome to the list! Good luck finding your LR. 73, KE6GPF. From Easton Trevor Tue Jan 09 08:31:00 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 08:31:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Frame Overs Regarding the methods and time for frame overs. A group of mad mechanics from TARC did a frame over on a SIII during a weekend. If Alistair Lowe is lurking out there he may be able to pry some details from Dave and post them to the digest. Trevor Easton, Grimsby, Ontario From Easton Trevor Tue Jan 09 08:39:00 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 08:39:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Small World In message <199601090450.XAA05336@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: ] Towards the end of the day ] they pulled into the event area which was well off the road..AND the next day ] at the airport rally site where I had to drive over the grass to the display ] area (snip) ] And ] Yes I did run out of gas on the way to Maine last year .. and it was Mark ] Talbot who saved me... Now that's all quite odd. I was the SIII 88" that stopped right after Mark left to get gas. The Rover world is quite small. Ben ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake And just before you all went on your way again, Mary and I in Miss Golightly along with Jim Dolan from Vermont in his SIIA also stopped to see if assistance was needed. Then we all convoyed through South Thomaston. Small world indeed. Trevor Easton From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 9 7:24:37 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 7:24:37 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Re: Bimini top all season, D90 John, I have a garage at home and there is a garage at work to park in also. As long as the vehicle was moving, and the door tops were on, I didn't get much water in the cabin. I even drove to and fro in some really nasty dounpours on the turnpike when I got caught in the rain and it wasn't bad as long as I stayed under 70MPH! Cheers, Soon to have the full cage, rear seats, and surry top! Barnett. 95 D90 From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 9 8:08:58 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 8:08:58 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:D90 Seats John, My passenger seat rattled constantly also, only when no one was seated in it. The dealer tracked it to a faulty seat bracket and replaced it. Cheers, Barnett From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 9 7:06:09 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 7:06:09 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:EMU shocks/springs/DISCO's/D90's Tom, I have OME suspensionon my D90. Ride is actually better than stock. Extra long travel gas shocks have better control and let wheels hang down further. Extra wheel travel gained on the D90 was 2 to 2.5". The vehicle was raised about 1 to 1.5". Also the springs seem to move more freely and have more coils than stock. I've been happy with it. Good luck, Barnett 95 D90. From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 15:42:23 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 15:42:23 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RE: Off Road Adventure (s) Steve, No you are claiming that the museum piece has been off-road 5 TIMES !!!!!! Come on. Putting those pristine wheels on grass doesn't constitute off-roading. What you did in October is off-roading, mud flying everywhere, water over the hood, rocks and almost tipping over. Now that is off-roading !!!!!! Oh yes, running out of gas is considered a pre-requisite for Land Rover ownership. Mark ---------- From PurnellJE@aol.com Tue Jan 9 11:46:18 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 11:46:18 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Load space protector In a message dated 96-01-08 21:12:21 EST, you write: >Anyone know where ABP gets their supply of RR load space protectors. It's the >plastic sheet that fits over the rear cargo area. I'm sure they are cheaper >back home in the UK. Speaking of load space protectors, does anyone know where to get that wonderful spider-web like bunji cord thingee that I saw in the Defender90 video? The one where the dad is covering all the coolers and sleeping bags to keep them in place during all that fording and tree climbing they did? JOhn. From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 9 12:12:01 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 12:12:01 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: ARB diff problem resolved! Hello all! A while back I posted a note on a problem/noise I was having after Rovers North had installed Air lockers in the front and rear diffs on my D90. The rear locker started making a grinding noise. All seemed fine when we took our initial test drive but after several weeks the back diff became very noisy. RN came and got my LR with a flatbed from LRMW in MA. back on 12/16/95. Holidays, bad weather, and the most knowledgeable person at ARB being on vacation for a week really slowed things up, but I'm finally getting my D90 back tomorrow. Upon inspection RN found the spacer behind one of the side gears completely worn away! The ARB diff is much wider than the stock LR diff. After talking to ARB several times and taking some measurements they found my axle was at the long side of it's tolerance, this was putting pressure on the diff. There was enough play in the original setup so I never had a problem. The solution was to mill 2/1000ths from the side gear and fabricate a 1/8th inch spacer to keep the axle from seating in so far. RN has never seen this problem before. I'm just lucky that way! P.S. RN is also returning my D90 to the dealer. Plus they are covering the cost of my rental. They are truly great to deal with. If something unexpected comes up, as it did for me, I can honestly say they truly stand behind their work. Can't wait to finally go play in all this snow! Barnett Soon to have no more Rover withdrawal Childress Sturbridge, MASS. From russ burns Tue Jan 9 09:12:23 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:12:23 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: RE: Discovery-Stuck in the Snow Ya, I tried it in my pond. I mentioned that it is hard on the Truck. but it might get you out of a jam. Russ Burns At 11:11 PM 1/8/96 -0800, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: >Have you tried this method? Does it stink (from burning brakes & revving >engine)? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] >quit, and start shoveling. >Russ Burns Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 16:39:01 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 16:39:01 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Small World running out of gas Actually, there was quite a gang of Land Rovers when Steve Bradke ran out of gas. I remember about 5-6 either stopped or came by. That event has now been etched in history as I taped Steve pouring gas into the "museum piece". My son now refers to him as "Steve runs out of gas". I will NEVER let him (Steve) forget it ! ---------- From Christopher Boese Tue Jan 09 08:37:22 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 08:37:22 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Axle guards Mark Talbot wrote: > Anyone used, bought diff / axle guards for a RR or Disco ? If so where did you > get them. I have looked at the southdown products, and they seem okay. > Any ideas ? I saw a diff guard for the Discovery at the Mission Viejo Land Rover Centre just before Christmas. It was just a heavy steel cup that fit around the prop shaft and clamped down with a single bolt. They were selling them for, I think, $85. There was only one guard left, so I passed on it, but when I find a pair I'll buy two. I think anyone could install these diff guards with no special tools. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 beluga black Discovery V8i From PurnellJE@aol.com Tue Jan 9 12:35:23 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:35:23 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: 8:1 compression and D90 hard tops In a message dated 96-01-09 03:42:50 EST, you write: > it was raining, and it >was amusing to see that the front seats were getting dripped on through the >top door seals just as badly as in my SIIA. That's one D90 that is >upholding the true LR heritage, I guess. ... and mine makes two. Go Land Rover! John 94 D90, Dr. Leaky From PurnellJE@aol.com Tue Jan 9 12:35:19 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:35:19 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Bimini top all season, D90 In a message dated 96-01-09 10:50:24 EST, you write: >John, >I have a garage at home and there is a garage at work to park in also. As [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Barnett. >95 D90 Thanks Barnett. It's good to know that I won't have to worry about every little rain in the upcoming season. And I do have the full cage and surrey,so we'll see how that works. Have you found that the front seats can get soaked and then dried off quickly, eg, with a towel, or does the foam padding inside actually get soaked and take a while to dry? I don't mind going off-roading or grocery shopping with a drenched derrier, but to work is a different matter. JOhn. 94 D90 From PurnellJE@aol.com Tue Jan 9 12:35:12 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:35:12 -0500 From: PurnellJE@aol.com Subject: Re: Yahoo!-I got stuck! In a message dated 96-01-09 02:24:16 EST, you write: > I broke almost every off-roading/snow driving rule, but man did we make >some memories! which ones? i need to be prepared if it ever snows here again. . . thanks John, N9EJC 94 D90, Wisconsin. From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 9 10:00:17 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 10:00:17 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Discovery Ground Clearance <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> From rsj@ny.ox.com (Rick Jaffe) Tue Jan 9 13:01 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:01 EST From: rsj@ny.ox.com (Rick Jaffe) Subject: Disco won't start in cold weather On 8 Jan 96, Rick Jaffe wrote: > My Disco has since Saturday failed to start. The battery is still > okay, but the engine won't turn over. [...] Help. Thanks for your comments. On Monday night, after three important days without my Disco, I received my answer: 1. Hook up jumper cables to another battery. 2. Say something nice to your starter motor because it may be the last time you see it alive. 3. Close the owner's manual because you won't *want* to know what it says about step #4. 4. Crank the starter for up to two minutes while vigorously and continuously pumping the accelerator. The tow truck driver "knew" this would work because he had just successfully completed the procedure on another Disco. (And I live in a small town!) All in all, for the Blizzard of '96 I can only give the Disco a very disappointing "incomplete". Rick rsj@ox.com '95 Disco, Gassandra From "barnett childress" Tue Jan 9 13:09:05 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:09:05 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Re: Bimini top all season, D90 John, I've never had the seats totally drenched, but when they have gotten wet they do towel dry. The seat cover material what ever it is seems to be fairly water resistant. Translation = (My ass stays dry!). Cheers, Barnett From 09 96 Jan EST 1913 Date: 09 Jan 96 13:14:22 EST From: Subject: Freezing door locks ---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes --------------------------- From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 18:21:06 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 18:21:06 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Disco Owner After coming to the defense of all Land Rover owners, I have to pass this on to you all. When the Discos first came out, my neighbour went and got one, fine, he wanted a good 4x4 for the NH weather/winters, he's had it about 18 months now, his wife drives it. Today I was out clearing snow, AGAIN !!!! who should drive by but said couple in Disco, now I live in the middle of NOWHERE !!! And what with my 2 RR's and 2 Series vehicles, we have 5 in the space of 1/2 mile. Anyway, we have just got another RR, a 91, so they stopped to ask that they thought they saw us driving a green RR, did we have another ? Yes, got it Saturday. "Oh" came the reply. "So now you have two Range Rovers and two Land Rovers" ? "Who makes those Range Rovers ? " I couldn't believe it. So I pointed to the badge on the Front of the RR and then on their Disco and said "I wonder !!!!" He stood there and said, "Land Rover makes Range Rovers as well !!!!! I didn't know that" . I told him that the 109 was also made by them. "NO" he said, "but they are really old !!!!" Then I began to explain that the Disco is built on the old RR Classic chassis and shares a lot of the same parts, front doors, basically the entire running gear and chassis. He just wouldn't have it, "Mine is a DISCOVERY" he said proudly. "Yep, it is, its a cheaper Range Rover I replied back, thats fills the cap in the product line from the Defender to the RR, all created by the SUV market going crazy". Then came, "What's a Defender". I just gave up. They then had enough, said good bye and off they went. I'm not saying that RR's are better vehicles etc, all have their own strengths, RR's just suit my needs. From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Tue Jan 9 13:28:06 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 13:28:06 -0500 (EST) From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Tire Chains I know this is an old subject for the digest, but does it do any good to put chains all round...all four wheels. In a panic, I went out this am and bought a pair for the rear tires of the SIIa ( I almost got stuck in the 28 inches of snow we had here yesterday). Could have been embarrasing. Chris _________________________________ |BCG Corporate Communications | |Baltimore, Maryland 21204 | [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] |(410) 583-1935 (FAX) | |chrisste@Clark.net | ================================= | 1969 SRIIa 2.25L SW | ================================= From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 9 13:39:59 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 13:39:59 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: motdet09.html (fwd) Electronic Telegraph Tuesday 9 January 1996 Motoring [Motoring] Ground breakers Eric Bailey in Detroit reviews the annual showcase of American design and innovation and assesses the impact of the new Mercedes AAV - a 4x4 pitched against the Range Rover and Discovery DETROIT in January looks bad from the air: a sectioned metropolis of grey roofs, grey trees, grey streets; only the grass is not grey, and that's brown. Out to the north Lake Huron is still and heavy, its inshore waters coloured pewter, its horizon dormant with ice. On the ground it's not much better. By Wednesday of this week - the first day of the North American International Automobile Show - snow as fine as talcum had dusted the streets and closed the schools. There was good news on the weather though: it was only going to be five degrees below. In Detroit in January, that's tropical. Downtown the city is empty and dangerous: those who could afford to get out got out long ago, fleeing to the suburbs and leaving a vacuum of empty lots, mugging arenas and tenements full of perpetrators. We're in the city centre, but here, warns our driver, you don't go out after dark on foot unless you can run like hell. Only in the financial district, he says, can you walk around after sundown. But two days at the show didn't allow for much risky promenading: the Auto Show, once a parochial affair of interest to dealers and three-shaves-a-day executives, has blossomed into a riveting showcase of American design and innovation, of which there is now plenty. There's a spring in the step and a twinkle in the eye of American auto executives, whose operations have undergone something of a renaissance since the Japanese caught a cold from the exchange rate. The likes of Ford, GM and Chrysler regrouped, reorganised, learned lessons about production and quality and leapt out of the trenches with whole new model ranges: the oldest car in the Chrysler range is now the Dodge Viper, shown only four years ago. GM introduced four new saloons in Detroit; Chrysler and Ford offered some breathtaking concepts: it was enough to make Japanese car makers reach for the hot sake and the karaoke machine. Demand in America has slowed this year; one dealer talked of people "losing the emotion of car buying - they're only buying what they need". But the Americans are buoyed up too by the fact that prestigious European manufacturers have realised that the best place to make cars for America is . . . America. From a British point of view, the AAV was the most important car at the show BMW's Z3 sports car, to be built at a new factory in South Carolina, was there, but the big "reveal" was of Mercedes' AAV - a cross between an estate car and a full-scale off-roader, which was partly designed in California and which will be built in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, at a factory fronted by a sign which reads "Guten Tag Freunde (Hey Neighbour)". Down there, the neighbours work more cheaply than Germans, as they do in South Carolina. From a British point of view, the AAV was the most important car at the show: the Americans get it in late 1997, and we get it in 1998. Mercedes described this as a "work in progress" but it's too late now for substantial revisions, so the basics of what we saw will be what hits American showrooms, priced from the mid-$30,000s; complete guesswork suggests the UK price will start around =A325,000. It looks good, better than it has in gouache 'n' guesswork drawings we've seen. Flared arches, side bumpers and a swooping roofline give it the muscularity required in the 4x4 sector, while the triangular rear light cluster and pared down grille convey the Mercedes styling genes. Its low ride-height - more saloon level than high and mighty offroader - is likely to be a disadvantage on real rough stuff, but will make it easier to get in and out of. The front is terrific, with huge Chinese-eye lights which work so much better than the E-class's grisly stare, and big spotlights mounted in the bumper. The rear is less good - the glass area has awkward complex angles, and the rear door pivots open from the side like the old Frontera's, meaning that a good five feet of space is required behind before opening. But Mercedes still has a bit of fiddling time. The chances are it will fulfil Mercedes' promise of exceptional on-road performance: the separate chassis has been designed specifically for this vehicle, and all-round independent suspension is used. Offroad performance is another matter - but no doubt it will be capable enough for all but the most determined cross country drivers. There will certainly be enough power: engine options will be a 4.3-litre V8 and 2.4-litre V6, both from a new range of power plants being developed, and - for us limp-wristed Europeans - a four-cylinder petrol unit and turbodiesel. At Detroit the AAV was one of the few new cars to elicit a round of applause from the cynical and satiated audience Mercedes say that it will be pitched against the Range Rover and Discovery, but interior space might scupper that theory: though the AAV is wider than the Ford Explorer and has a wheelbase longer than the Jeep Grand Cherokee, it doesn't look as big inside as either. The rear is frankly cramped, and the cargo space modest. The interior of the car we saw can be largely disregarded, tricked out as it was in fancy leather embossed with AAV, chrome gear lever gate and television in the back; it was a styling studio fantasy. But Mercedes interiors are built on old-fashioned functionality, which should suit this vehicle better than the saloons. Mercedes mentioned that it had become a member of the Tread Lightly Organisation, a group which encourages drivers to think before they flatten the countryside - though there is doubt in my mind as to whether this would stop the driver who has just spent $35,000 on a purpose-built countryside flattener. There are other potential annoyances: AAV stands for All Activity Vehicle, and one of the activities available will be to open the back door, twist round the mighty Bose speakers, and fill the bosky glades with ZZ Top. There was a frisson of excitement when the Mercedes PR man announced that a German executive called Andreas Renschler and Michael Jackson were to present the AAV, but Jackson turned out to be executive vice president of sales. There followed a not-very-comical exposition of the Flintstones as the owners of the first "sport utility" and some gimpy banter along the lines of: Andreas: "You know Mike, this vehicle is going to break new ground." Mike: "Oh yeah? Well how can you be so sure?" Andreas: "That's a tough question, Mike. Well I'll tell you . . . " Mike told us there were three reasons for the AAV, but gave us only two: that the sport utility market continues to grow, and that 25 per cent of Mercedes owners already have a sport utility in their garage but would prefer to have a three-pointed star on the front of it. Maybe the third reason is that Mercedes is currently jumping feet first into any niche it identifies: the SLK sports car, the Swatch minicar and the Viano people mover will all be arriving before the end of the decade. At Detroit the AAV was one of the few new cars to elicit a round of applause from the cynical and satiated audience. But it is still two years away. How crowded, how important will the 4x4 market be by then? That's a tough question, Mike. Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 18:29:07 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 18:29:07 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Tyres for RR Anyone know the largest size tyres that will fit the RR Classic. I was thinking of going to 225/75 ? Mark From sstricklin@pace.atl.ga.us (Slade Stricklin) Tue Jan 9 13:17:27 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:17:27 -400 From: sstricklin@pace.atl.ga.us (Slade Stricklin) Subject: Dealer Prices Does anyone know what percent Land Rover Dealers mark up the prices on Genuine Parts from their price to retail? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Sent via ExpressNet/SMTP(tm), Internet Gateway of the Gods! ExpressNet/SMTP (c)1994-95 Delphic Software, Inc. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 19:28:05 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 19:28:05 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Hi lift jack Anyone used a hi-lift jack on a RR. Do you have to get a special mounting plate ????? Mark From 09 96 Jan EST 1913 Date: 09 Jan 96 13:14:25 EST From: Subject: freezing discovery Was in Vermont USA this weekend, and had to leave my child outside in the minus 15 deg temperatures. started in the am quite happily but I could hear a thump thump thump for several seconds until the engine oil made its way around. sounded like the main bearings to me. wheels felt square, auto tranny really didn't want to change, drove slowly for the first few minutes until everything loosened up. Can anyone in Canada tell us folks about the LR block heater you have as standard up there? where does the plug come out, where does it plug in etc heater in the discovery is fabulous even at these temps. washer bottle froze solid had to pick up snow to clear the screen every so often damm nuisance if you ask me!! (thats a joke) Only casualty from the weekend was a center cap from one of my alloy wheels fell off. ordered another one from the dealer. does this count as a dinky problem? anyone else suffered this terrible fate? should I have called for road side assistance? should I write to LRNA and complain? Regards Chris browne If they didn't plough all the snow life would be wonderful From ericz@cloud9.net Tue Jan 9 11:49:22 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 11:49:22 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Discovery Ground Clearance <---- Begin Forwarded Message ----> From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 19:46:14 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 19:46:14 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Dave Bobeck e-mail me Dave Please e-mail me or call, 603-357-3401 From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jan 9 14:00:12 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 14:00:12 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Tire Chains > I know this is an old subject for the digest, but does it do any good to > put chains all round...all four wheels. In a panic, I went out this am and Yep. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Hugo Madden Tue Jan 9 12:02:41 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:02:41 -0800 From: Hugo Madden Subject: Re re re re re differentials >I know I'm going to blow this but whats a center diff??? I know about diffes >on each axle, & transfer case behind the transmission. But Center Diff is a >new one for me. I'm assuming its a newer technology than came on my 109 or >TR3. >Hoping to be enlightened >TeriAnn W-e-l-l, TeriAnn, assuming that you don't mind getting engineering advice from a chemist, sit down and read this. When a four wheeled vehicle turns a corner, the outside wheels have to go further than the inside wheels, as a result the outer half-axle has to spin faster. To avoid serious tire wear and/or early axle breakdown, the differential was invented to allow the inner and outer wheels to rotate at different speeds while still transmitting the same torque to each wheel. For a 4WD, the situation is a tad more complicated. A part-time 4WD vehicle, such as an early LR, has a transfer case that can be shifted into 4WD. In this position, the front and rear driveshafts are both driven at the same speed, there's no differential action at all. Thus if (say) one front wheel is spinning in air, the rear drive shaft is still rotating at the same rpm as the front drive-shaft. In this situation, most of the torque winds up being delivered to the rear drive shaft, which is just what you want to get out from whatever stuck situation you're in. So what's the downside? Well, if you drive your part time 4WD on dry pavement with 4WD selected, there will be additional wear and tear on driveline components and tires. This is because in normal driving the front and rear driveshafts don't want to rotate at the same speed all the time (esp. on tight corners). In the kind of situations where you need the part time 4WD this isn't a concern'cos you're usually in a situation where you've got some tire slippage anyway. But for full-time 4WD vehicles, something has to be done. The solution is to build a diff into the transfer case. The diff now transmits equal torque to the front and rear driveshafts but doesn't require them to rotate at the same speed. This clears up the problem of driveline and tire wear on dry pavement, but means that if one wheel loses traction totally, the torque provided to all four wheels essentially becomes zero. The solution is to make the diff in the t'fer case (centre diff) lockable either manually or by installing some kind of viscous coupling (as in the Rangie) which allows for small differences in rotational speed between the front and rear driveshafts but locks up if the rotational difference becomes too large. if this doesn't make sense, you should try me on the chemistry! Hugo _______ //_/_|__\___ \_ - ___ - _d (o) (o) From maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Tue Jan 9 12:09:32 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:09:32 -0800 From: maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Subject: Re: D90 seats > JEPurnell@aol.com writes on Mon, 8 Jan 1996 >Subject: D90 seats >Anyone have problems with their seats making noise or falling apart? My >passenger seatback has a squeak that lubricant hasn't fixed, and then >recently, a long thin rod fell out of the back of it. It is the kind of >squeak that could easily drive a human being insane, that kind. I am hoping >that Mr. LR Dealer will see fit to replace it completely. The exact same thing has happened to my seats! My LR dealer said the rod can be reattached and is only an extra wireframe rod (will do so at next servicing). I haven't been able to isolate the squeak on passenger side and usually can't hear it over flapping top/wind/tire noise (but it is noticable with top off and cruising at moderate speeds), so it will have to wait until spring. Has anybody on the list replaced Series or Defender seats with good aftermarket items? Seems like a seat upgrade would be a good investment. Since the factory seats are neither very comfortable nor high quality, what do the severe off-road teams use? I'd like support and comfort for on and off-road. Another interior design flaw is that the locking center counsole on D90s doesn't like water: It got wet and hence the liner warped, the fabric on the lid puckered and now it will not lock. (How am I supposed to hose out the interior?) Still waiting to see what the dealer says on replacing it, but for you serious D90 snorklers and tops-off at all costs owners, the console cover (a pricey Bestop waterproof cover with stretch elastic) may be a good insurance policy. Ambitious owners can easily make their own covers, but an ounce of prevention... Warped and soggy in California Cheers, Gary Madden 94D90 From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Jan 09 12:25:13 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 12:25:13 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Frame Overs In message <199601091517.KAA06435@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > Regarding the methods and time for frame overs. A group of mad mechanics > from TARC did a frame over on a SIII during a weekend. If Alistair Lowe is > lurking out there he may be able to pry some details from Dave and post them > to the digest. Is Alistair the son of Dave "you can pull a Rover 2.25L engine in 45 minutes using only open ended wrenches (or so he claimed to learn when he pulled Brett Storey's engine 3 times in the same day)" and "101 FC" Lowe from Toronto? Ben, (checking to see how really small the Rover world is) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 9 12:22:19 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:22:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Tyres for RR On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Mark Talbot wrote: > Anyone know the largest size tyres that will fit the RR Classic. I was > thinking of going to 225/75 ? Mark, There's been a lot of discussion about this in the past few months. The bottom line is that you should be OK. I've got 225/85 on my 88 and no problems indicated to date, and yes, it's been off road a few times. Since you won't be taking it out extreme driving conditions (that's what the Series vehicles are for?) you shouldn't be testing the limits of the articulation. I'll send you some comments Stefan Jacob had last summer on the subject. Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From David Rosenbaum Tue Jan 9 13:01:46 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 13:01:46 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: re:D90 rattles On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, barnett childress wrote: > My passenger seat rattled constantly also, only when no one was seated in > it. The dealer tracked it to a faulty seat bracket and replaced it. My D90 has quite a few rattles. Most come and go. Sometimes I think they're coming from the inertial reel seatbelt things. Nothing has fallen off in two years..... Reminds me of the sticker: "If you can read this, you are too darned close." So after listening to the rattle of the day for awhile (to make sure it hasn't changed or gotten *serious*), I just open the window a bit (to get the top flapping a little more) or turn up the radio and happily rover-on. Any time I have tried to reproduce the rattles by jumping around inside or pulling on the safari cage with the engine off and the Land Rover not moving, I can't get any of them to happen.........and I get the feeling that my beloved Land Rover is silently asking me, "What the Hell are you doing, Dave." (I don't even think about what the neighbors must be thinking) -David From nosirrah@kentnet.co.uk (EPJ Harrison) Tue Jan 9 21:35:30 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 21:35:30 PST From: nosirrah@kentnet.co.uk (EPJ Harrison) Subject: Special Insurance Recently I heard two seperate people talking of very cheap insurance especially for Ex-MOD vehicles. Does anyone in the UK know anything about this?? Second, I read in LRO magazine about some students who did up a series LR and replaced the fuel guage/ammeter/full beam instrument panel with a rather flashy rev. counter. Anyone know how to do this? Thanks for your help, you can expect more to follow..... Tom Harrison, Maidstone, Kent P.S. Does anyone live near me who subscribes? 19'6something 88" IIA From Bennett Leeds Tue Jan 9 13:40:35 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 13:40:35 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Re: Differentials I don't know about off-road use, but limited slip differentials are great on roads. Race cars and serious sports cars almost always have them. A bit more than a decade ago a new design came out: the Torsen-Gleason hypoid bevel gear differential. This design not only wears out much slower, it does a better job. Supposedly Mario Andretti put one in his Indy race car and immediately his top speed went up 2 MPH (a big gain). I've got one in my '66 E-Type (not original equipment). I've also got a limited slip in my RX-7 and 3325is (standard equipment). These are all rear wheel drive cars. The only drawback to them that I'm aware of is cost (when a clutch type limited slip wears out you've got yourself a regular open diff). But again, I don't know if they have drawbacks in 4WD or off-road use. Anyone know what they put in Hummers, for instance? - Bennett Leeds From "Gerald" Tue Jan 9 16:49:30 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 16:49:30 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: freezing discovery On 9 Jan 96 at 13:14, Chris_Browne@us014-boston-mi wrote: > Was in Vermont USA this weekend, and had to leave my child outside in > the minus 15 deg temperatures. started in the am quite happily but I > could hear a thump thump thump for several seconds until the engine > oil made its way around. sounded like the main bearings to me. Started my Discovery three times this morning with temperature about 17 F/-8 C. The third time I could watch the rpm slowly climb up. I was wondering if only 6 cylinders were firing at first then 7 then 8. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk Tue Jan 9 19:16:09 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 19:16:09 GMT From: i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk Subject: Timing Hi all Graeme wrote:- >I suspect my timing but as of yet don't have a crank to turn the >engine by hand. Is there any other way of adjusting the timing? I don't know off hand, but I am sure that there must be another way of turning th engine over. However, you can do the dynamic timing if you have access to a timing lamp (Halfords have the basic on in their sale at the moment for about a tenner or so, I think). I bought (Halford's sale again!) one of these see through spark plugs ('colortune' they are called) but haven't managed to use it yet. Anyone else got any experience with them? I have my SWB for more than a year now but still consider myself a beginner! Cheers, Ian. From Russell Burns Tue Jan 9 15:02:02 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 15:02:02 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Hi lift jack I have a GDE winch on the front which works fine with a HI lift jack. For the rear I use the trailer receptcial (US Range Rover Russ Burns > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Anyone used a hi-lift jack on a RR. Do you have to get a special mounting [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > plate ????? > Mark From Russell Burns Tue Jan 9 15:06:39 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 15:06:39 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Tyres for RR I have 225/75r16 on my classic, and have not had any trouble. It has been off road in Canyon Lands, and Colorado. Russ Burns > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > thinking of going to 225/75 ? > Mark From "Mark Talbot" Tue Jan 9 21:18:45 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 21:18:45 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RE: Disco Owner Looks like there are two of them !!!!!! ---------- From TONY YATES Wed Jan 10 08:12:47 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:12:47 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Parts commonality On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Simon Barclay wrote: > Just thought you might like to know that I counted 72 Land Rover vehicles on > my way to work this morning. This was between 06.45Hrs and about 07.00Hrs [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > ones) a S2A (ex Army) and a couple of '85ish 110's and a newer Defender tray > back. Here in Port Hedland (max temp 40+C at the moment), a town of approx 10000, I have counted: 110 Defender - 1 green hardtop, 1 white trayback(govt) 130 Defender - 1 white 110 (pre Defender) - 4 Red, 1 white, 1 blue, 1 brown. Range Rovers - lots, including 1 very neat ute conversion. Discoverys - several, most of which are well fitted out for off roading. Series vehicles - heaps. Not too many older Toyonissans here, possibly due to the saltworks, plus most off roading is beach/tidal creek stuff. M Scott Fugate wrote: "I still get a disconcerting "bump" from the right front occasionally when I round a corner. This only happens when it is raining, however. Very strange." Strange indeed. I had the same thing, a nasty clunk when cornering, but only when wet! Turned out to be a worn panhard rod bush. One of the more fun jobs I get to do with the State Emergency Service is to rescue people who have got themselves stuck out in the boondocks. Last week I was called out to help this guy who had sunk his Nissan in the coastal salt flats to the east of here. The temp was 40C, he was trying to cross the flats to get to the coast for a spot of fishing, with his wife and kids, and *NO* recovery gear. He was sunk to the chassis in custard like mud and was trying to jack using a small bottle jack. This brings me to my point, one thing we use in the SES in mud like this is sandbags. We jacked him up with a hi-lift (his comment was "those things are pretty good aren't they?"), and put bags under the wheels (full of mud), then just pulled him out. Once the vehicle was sitting on the bags he probably could have driven out. Before SES I had never heard of sandbags as a recovery tool. They are wonderfully simple, cheap, easy to carry, disposable and effective. They may even work in snow. (although I have no experience with that stuff). Cheers. Tony. From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Tue Jan 9 16:28:47 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 16:28:47 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: Re re re re re differentials Thanks for filling me in. I've never paid attention to the insides of the post series cars except for the Defender seats. I had no idea they played games like that to get full time fourwheel drive. Thanks again TeriAnn From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Tue Jan 9 16:31:12 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 16:31:12 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: D90 seats OK guys, If you don't like the D90 seats, I will be happy to purchase them from you at a reasonable used price. I would even be happy to trade a slightly used set of series front seats upholstered in early Duct tape. TeriAnn ;*) From hhewson@mail.erols.com (H. J. Hewson) Tue Jan 9 19:33:30 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 19:33:30 -0500 From: hhewson@mail.erols.com (H. J. Hewson) Subject: One Brahmin Writes Hello all- Couldn't help but submit this beautiful piece from the Tuesday, January 9 Washington Post Style section: "Trudging across the tundra of the suburbs, The Source noticed that a caste system had emerged in the blizzard. There were those on foot, their expensive foreign sedans immobilized. There were those with four-wheel-drive vehicles, smugly peering out their tinted windows, wearing snow-eating grins. And elevated beyond their ordinary statusto the highest caste were Range Rover operators. They can plow through drifts without ever hanging up the car phone. Maybe they're all talking to each other in some Rover Friends and Family network." After a few minutes of pondering this I've come to accept that I am truely a part of the highest caste. If any of you Series, Disco or Defender owners (notice how I lumped you all together) buy me enough beer, I might show you the secret handshake. Time to go rescue some slack-jawed Land Cruiser from a snow drift. Harry '89 Mange Rover (Scratched, dented, and leaking from no fewer than 4 locations!) From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Mon Jan 09 19:06:29 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 19:06:29 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover toy news Recently steve Bradke posted a note about Hobby Heaven in Michigan and there Range Rovers for sale, no more left, I just bought them!! Rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Mon Jan 09 19:07:40 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 19:07:40 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Lightweight for sale A friend of mine in Wainright Alberta has the following vehcile for sale but he is netless so I'm posting here on his behalf, nothing more. 1978 Series 3 lightweight ex British Army. Now fitted with hard top, 16" radials and painted marine blue. Has a mdoern(sic) heater w ith balls, has heated winshiled both sides up front, 12volt delco alternator and fully converted to 12volt throughout, currently fitted with winch but does not want to sel winch at present. Vehcile is a daily driver and runs sweetly. Offers $10,000, call Alex Heath at 1 403 842 2955 evenings. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Tue Jan 9 16:52:02 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 16:52:02 -0800 From: TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com Subject: Re: land Rover camping- long Land Rover camping John, Don't forget the pop-up folding tents that fit on Land Rover roofs for above Land Rover camping (Brownchurch comes to mind) Also Cranix (sp?) in the UK has that tent that attaches to the rear of a Land Rover allowing you to camp both in and out of your Land Rover at the same time. Since Dormobile parts are hard to come by, I'll limit my discussion to non-Dormobile camping and since I nave only camped in a 109 two door, I'll limit myself to 109 two door camping. But you might want to mention the cots used in series II 88s that anchor in the front on the metal instrument panel and go over the front seat. The bed in a 109 two door has space for a six foot long person to stretch out for sleeping. If you have a tail gate open, you can accommodate a taller person. There are several options available for sleeping. If you are single camping, you can lay a air mattress or chase lounge pad down directly on the floor. If you are double camping, you can place a a sheet of plywood over the side shelves providing plenty of space for two to sleep side by side. Both of these solutions allow for the car to remain unmodified. Some people have built in permanent beds using a mattress and space under them for storage. Another option for Land Rovers that have windowless sides is to side hinged beds that fold up against the wall when not in use. The 109 two door has lots of unused space under the side shelves between the back of the front seats and the rear wheels. My car has a 5 gal horizontal propane tank with top valve on the right side. This is essentially the same type that comes on propane fork lifts. It gives me gas for about 5 days of cooking and heating water for washing. This space can also be used for water storage if you have a custom water tank made. There is an outrigger that the water tank can sit on. You should be able to fit a 20 gallon water tank on each side. I should know the capacity this spring when i build one for the left side of my car. This helps keep the weight and roll center low. I have been camping in a 109 two door with unmodified rear interior by strapping the cooler and plastic storage boxes to the side shelves with bungle cords. I had one box for sleeping bag and pillow, one for clothing and one for kitchen. There was space for strapping two additional boxes to the side shelves without occupying the bed of the back proper. I also brought propane lanterns, a folding table and chairs. The table got set up alongside the Land Rover next to the propane tank. I connect a two burner propane stove to the built in tank. So my cooking was done outside alongside the Land Rover. I attached up a large nylon sheet to the side of the car's roof and set it up as an awning using poles on the outside. One could attach an RV style awning to the side of a 109 and just pull it out. I am currently converting my 109 to a long distance expedition Land Rover utilizing the pop-up top and cabinets from a wrecked Dormobile. I have two underseat petrol tanks plus a rear tank for a total of 44 US gallons of petrol. I have the 5 gal propane tank under the side bench on the right side and will have a water container under the left side bench. On the right side going from the back of the right front seat to the rear, there is the tall Dormobile wardrobe, a NorCold chest refrigerator/freezer which doubles as a table, then a single side facing fold down jump seat. On the left side from the back of the left front seat rearwards, a three shelf tall cabinet, a sink then the Dormobile two burner/sink cabinet. This gives me a sink for washing and one for rinsing. I will be adding a roof rack for the front of the roof forward of the pop-up top. I am installing a deep cycle battery in the right rear tool box. to provide power for the refrigerator. Since the deep cycle battery requires a slow charging cycle, I have added a mains connector at the rear of the car. At the right rear behind the tool box containing the deep cycle battery, i have added a connector from a military Land Rover that was used to provide power for a communications trailer. The screw on cap waterproofs the internal connector space which is the correct size for a male power receptacle. This allows me to connect the deep cycle battery to a mains connection whenever available. Another modification I have done is squared off the rear cross member by adding a wedge shaped metal channel. This gives me space to add the military rear bumperettes for increased rear protection, and a small 'U' channel at each end as a rear corner jack point for a high lift jack. Otherwise its almost impossible to use a high lift jack in the rear without lifting the whole rear of the car unbalanced so it would fall off the jack to the side. A rear petrol tank can be easily added to a 109 two door by modifying the lower part of the second to rear cross member, routing the exhaust to the 109 five door configuration, and using the filler fittings from a series III high capacity pickup. I can provide details upon request. I have also converted the car to 1984 109 dual power brakes. I can provide details upon request. TeriAnn From Shaun Carrigan Tue Jan 09 19:56:42 1996 Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 19:56:42 -0600 From: Shaun Carrigan Subject: RR power seat Help! Dearest just borrowed the '88 Range Rover and moved up the seat to accommodate her 5'0" frame. When I tried to climb in, there was no response to the seat switch. The seat tilt/angle still works but I can't get the seat distance back far enough to even climb behind the wheel. There is no response at all when moving the seat distance switch to the rear position. When moved forward, there is a slight clicking sound. What has failed, the switch or the motor, or is it possibly a fuse? Is there a way to manually move the seat back far enough to drive it until a repair can be made? Shaun Carrigan From NADdMD@aol.com Tue Jan 9 21:13:52 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:13:52 -0500 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Re: Brake problems. Tom Rowe writes: For clamps I use small needle nose Vice-Grips with the teeth ground off ( I have a set of three just for this purpose). Another alternative to grinding down needle-nose visegrip teeth is to contact a local hospital and ask if they have old bowel clamps they're going to discard. Try to get them to take your name if they have none. Bowel clamps are designed to clamp across segments of bowel, preventing all contents from flowing through without damaging the bowel wall. If surgery doesn't seem interested, talk to anatomic pathology (autopsy service) as they use them there as well. Nate Dunsmore Rocking Horse Farm Boring, MD 21020 NADdMD@aol.com From Peter Collingridge Tue Jan 9 21:12:39 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:12:39 GMT From: Peter Collingridge Subject: Buying a Land-Rover Hi, Thanks to the person who re-posted my query from the rec.autos.4x4 about buying a Land-Rover in the UK. I found this list server at about the same time. To recap, I am looking at spending about 2000 pounds on a series II or III Land-Rover. I want a petrol SWB - 2 1/4 is OK, but a V8 is preferable (it will not do large mileages). The feedback so far has been useful, but if anyone could give me any more guidance, then it would be gratefully received. I am quite tempted by a Stage I, but am not sure if they came in SWB form, or how frequently they come up for sale, or whether they fall within my price range. Anyway, any advice gratefully received. Thanks, Pete -- Peter Collingridge From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Tue Jan 9 18:52:58 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:52:58 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Load space protector John asks... >Speaking of load space protectors, does anyone know where to get that >wonderful spider-web like bunji cord thingee that I saw in the Defender90 >video? The one where the dad is covering all the coolers and sleeping bags >to keep them in place during all that fording and tree climbing they did? - I haven't seen the video, but I've got a spider-web bunji cord thingee that I use to secure the load on my VW Westfalia luggage rack. I think I bought it at K-Mart. Works great in the IIa, too. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue #:-}> From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Tue Jan 9 18:53:34 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 18:53:34 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Timing >From Graeme and Ian.... >>I suspect my timing but as of yet don't have a crank to turn the >>engine by hand. Is there any other way of adjusting the timing? ......... >I don't know off hand, but I am sure that there must be another way of >turning th engine over. However, you can do the dynamic timing if you >have access to a timing lamp - A couple of ways to turn the engine by hand... For the gorillas in the crowd, put the truck in first gear and push it until the points ride up on the distributer cam lobe. (Grunt!) For the rest of us... Make sure you know where the spark plug wires attach to the distributer cap! Then, unscrew the spark plugs, remove them if you want. Put the transmission in neutral and you should be able to easily turn the engine by turning the fan (assuming the fan belt is adjusted properly). Nice advantage with this is you can eyeball the distributer while moving the fan. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Faded Green Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol - Fern Camo NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol - Red and Blue #:-}> From JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Tue Jan 9 21:53:00 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 21:53:00 -0500 From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Subject: Series Rim questions Greetings, It is time again, to ask advice. I recently acquired two new additions to the family. (both basket cases) A 1970 Series IIA 88", and a 1967 109" 5 door wagon. Both vehicles are equipped with 16" rims. The 65,000 dollar question: Can these rims be used with tubeless tires? I have seen tubeless tires on Series rims in the past, but thought I would ask advice of the all-knowing. (yeah, I mean you folks) The rims would be stripped, dipped, and given a fresh coat of limestone paint. My plans would be to air down to 10-15 psi for the trail. Jim Cirbus Sunbury OH '94 D-90 #730 '70 Ser IIA 88" '67 Ser IIA 109" NADA 6 From "Gerald" Tue Jan 9 22:21:54 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:21:54 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Cranks (was Re: Timing) > Graeme wrote:- > >I suspect my timing but as of yet don't have a crank to turn the > >engine by hand. Is there any other way of adjusting the timing? Speaking of cranks which LR's can be started with a hand operated crank? Another Disco owner returned my wave today - second one this year. Must be the 50 cm of snow that fell in the past 2 days. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Gerald" Tue Jan 9 22:21:54 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 22:21:54 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: D90 seats On 9 Jan 96 at 16:31, TWakeman/Apple@eworld.com wrote: . . . . > I would even be happy to trade a slightly used set > of series front seats upholstered in early Duct tape. Is that the pure, imported, Corinthian Duct tape? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Jan 10 14:50:26 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 14:50:26 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Cranks Gerald asks: > Speaking of cranks which LR's can be started with a hand operated > crank? Well the stage 1 V8 has provision for crank starting but getting it started is another matter.... I have 2 bent crank handles waiting to be straightened and reinforced, then I might try again.. Dont seem to be able to get it spinning fast enough to catch, any suggestions. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 9 21:00:54 1996 Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:00:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: RR power seat On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Shaun Carrigan wrote: > Help! Dearest just borrowed the '88 Range Rover and moved up the seat to > accommodate her 5'0" frame. When I tried to climb in, there was no [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > there a way to manually move the seat back far enough to drive it until > a repair can be made? Hmm, it must be the season or something. I just had the same experience, except in reverse. My seat will go back, but not forward. This means that my wife can't drive the RR, and it's her daily driver. (On the otherhand, it means that I get to use it everyday; not a bad deal... I think I'd better get it fiFrom Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Jan 10 00:27:39 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 00:27:39 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: 1997 Panama Alaska Rally (fwd) This got sent to me as RoverWeb Admin. I thought I'd pass it on in case any Rover people were interested. Ben bens@vislab.navy.mil bens@ridgecrest.ca.us ------- Forwarded Message From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 10 96 Jan EST 1903 Date: 10 Jan 96 03:29:07 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: 4X4 in Sinai (was:Andrew Grafton) > Turns out that apparently you cant take "foreign" diesels into the Sinai > region of Egypt.So they had to be shipped round.Although they *were* > considering replacing the diesel heads with petrol just to get them in > and then replaing the petrol heads once inside....academics..jeez! ... > Also,4X4 vehicles are forbidden in the Sinai,too,and the only way round > *that* one is to remove the front propshaft,and the 4WD lever *and* the I know that those are the official regulations... and yet: Sinai is *full* of 4X4's, diesels, and diesel 4X4's, both local and foreign! Why? Because egyptian border guards frankly don't give a frigid fart if the bakhshish is right. We travelled Sinai (and the rest of Egypt), naturally in Land Rovers, and one of them was a TDi. No problem whatsoever. There is one catch, perhaps: It makes a difference whether you enter Sinai from Isreal, or via Jordania (Ferry from Aqaba to Nuweiba). We did the latter and had no problems whatsoever on arrival in Egypt, no-one even asked or cared. This diesel thing has a simple reason: Diesel in Egypt costs less than one-tenth of the price in Israel, and apparently after the border opening following Camp David, isreali motorists swarmed into the now egyptian Sinai by the thousands daily and virtually sucked up the region's entire diesel supply on a regular basis. The ensueing diesel ban was intended to put an end to this, and so it did. But of course you could surely persuade the guys at the border that as a tourist in transit this ban logically shouldn't apply to you. Problem is that the ban is enforced from *both* sides, egyptian as well as israeli. While the Egyptians are usually friendly, flexible and corrupt, the Israelis are rather rigid and stubborn and not easily persuaded. The 4X4 ban also has a 'historical' origin: The UN outposts surveilling the demilitarized zone along the Sinai egypto-israeli border found it increasingly difficult to distinguish between - forbidden - movement of military vehicles of either side and tourists - mainly Israelis in old battered army Jeeps - romping about in the deserts and canyons. Whenever they followed up a complaint by the Egyptians about alleged Israeli military intrusion into the DMZ, they usually came upon a bunch of isreali kids having fun offroad. Another, more serious, problem are old Israeli landmines which can still be found at once strategically sensitive spots. When retreating from Sinai, the Israelis left all their military installations including all plans, maps etc. intact for the Egyptians to take over, as provided in the Camp David agreement. Among these were also the plans of the exact locations of mines. When the egyptian troops did move in they were so enthusiastic that in their first frenzy of victory and achievement they immediately torched and blasted any israeli installation they came across. Apparently the Israelis didn't keep any copies of their plans (or so they say), so the mine displacement plans were eventually lost. Therefor there is still the real possibility of hitting a mine when venturing too far away from well-trodden territory in the Sinai. Though a lot of mines have meanwhile been cleared 'naturally' by being touched off by goats, sheep and bedouins, there are still plenty hidden. Hence the ban on all 4X4's which is still officially in effect. As I said, if you enter into Sinai via the Aqaba-Nuweiba ferry (US $ 250.- one way, bit of a rip-off) and disembark in Nuweiba, well away from the Israeli border and the DMZ, none of this is a problem. Talking about problems, I heard some months ago that the ferry Aqaba- Nuweiba was damaged by fire. I don't know whether the ship (there was only one running) has been replaced, repaired, or if perhaps, following the opening of borders between Israel and Jordania at Eilat, service has ceased altogether. Of course then again you would have the problem of having to enter Sinai via Israel. Cheers, Stefan From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Jan 10 01:35:22 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:35:22 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Discovery Ground Clearance >From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com[SMTP:rpeng@cadev6.intel.com] >Subject: Discovery Ground Clearance >One thing that strikes me about the Discovery is that it >rides on rather small tires. As compared to what? The stock tires have about a 30" diameter. They look small because the body's so tall. >The ground clearance doesn't >seem to be better than most mini-vans. LRNA likes to promote >the Discovery as a serious offroader; how does it get by? Says who? Off the lot they have about 8.5" at the lowest point, but more importantly, the Disco's undercarriage is much cleaner than almost all other 4wd's (except for the HUMMER, perhaps) in that none of the "vital organs" hang below the frame rails and there's a minimum of thing attached below the bottom of the axle housing. Compare this to any american SUV and you'll see all kinds of thing hanging under the bottom, necessitating skid plates. >If you take a look at a typical U.S. 4WD magazine, almost >every truck featured has a lift and large tires. And if you look in a muscle magazine, everyone has a washboard abdomen. These magazines tend to cater to the extreme. There are other mags that cater to owners and fans of "real-world" 4WD's as well. >Due to limited wheelwell space, I don't think it would be easy to fit >larger tires on a Discovery, nor do I know of any lift kits made >for this vehicle. Would anyone care to comment regarding this issue? The limitation of fitting larger tires to a Disco is due more to the tremendous wheel travel. There are lift kits available for LR's, though, for those that feel they need them. However, since the market for them is so small compared to Fords and Jeeps in the US, you don't tend to see them advertised much in the American 4WD mags. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Wed Jan 10 20:41:17 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 20:41:17 +1100 From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Subject: Opening bottles (was: Re: Range Rovers off road) > From: Benjamin Allan Smith > That's because he couldn't open his beer on the dash. I've since > found a point on the SIII (and SIIA, SII..) that will do the same thing > so he's lost that point. Where? How? Tell all! I have been searching for years, breaking the occasional neck off bottles (you have to drink carefully to avoid blood in your beer), and was even tempted to fasten a large bar-counter opener to the back cross-member (next to the high- lift bracket). From jve@phaseone.dk Wed Jan 10 12:09:12 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 12:09:12 From: jve@phaseone.dk Subject: Re: Series Rim questions Jim A month ago I got new tubeless 235/85 tires on the 16" rims of my 1972 Series III 109 STW. I have no problems at all. As long as the rims are in reasonably good condition and free from rust, you should be ok. Now about the 65000 dollars ... ? Jens Vesterdahl Copenhagen, Denmark From Easton Trevor Wed Jan 10 07:08:00 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 07:08:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Small World Ben wrote:- Is Alistair the son of Dave "you can pull a Rover 2.25L engine in 45 minutes using only open ended wrenches (or so he claimed to learn when he pulled Brett Storey's engine 3 times in the same day)" and "101 FC" Lowe from Toronto? Ben, (checking to see how really small the Rover world is) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- - Yes and it was Brett's frameover done in the weekend Trevor "see you all in Maine this year" Easton From "barnett childress" Wed Jan 10 7:20:22 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 7:20:22 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:freezing discovery Chris, Sorry to hear about your "Crisis in Vermont"! Wow sounds like something on the nightly news? "Crisis in Vermont"..... Count on ABC to keep you up to date and continually interrupt the regularly scheduled broadcasts, until we beat this to death or run out of speculations! I believe I can offer some advice for most of your "major setbacks". 1- Get some synthetic oil in that baby! Transmission, transfer, diffs, swivel balls, power steering. Big difference in cold weather performance! Really! 2- Put some washer fluid in thats rated for colder temps! or have your wife get out and throw the snow on the windshield, preferably when the vehicle is not moving!!!! 3- Replace that plastic cap immediately!! Without that cap to maintain proper balance between your front wheels you could "loose control of your sport utility vehicle, and because of its inherent higher center of gravity could result in a rollover or crash"!!!!!!!!! 4- Maybe I could save you all the heartbreak and offer to purchase this troublesome vehicle from you? Good luck and hang in there Land Rover life is a troubled life!! Barnett It must be nice to drive a Landrover, I'm starting to forget! Childress. From "barnett childress" Wed Jan 10 7:31:54 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 7:31:54 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:: D90 seats/Console The best weather resistant and lockable console for the D90 is an after market unit from Tuffy. It is made out of steel, powder coated I believe, larger, and really locks up tight. If I were going to replace my center console this is what I would upgrade to. Someone on the list has already installed this console and reported a "step by step how too" and seemed very satisfied with it. Cheers, Barnett 95 D90 From "barnett childress" Wed Jan 10 07:47:26 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 07:47:26 -0500 (EST) From: "barnett childress" Subject: FYI: : Bimini top all season, D90 Comments : ------------------------[ Original Message ]-------------------- To : smtp@Eng@EMCHOP1[] Cc : From : barnett childress@Eng@EMCHOP1 Date : Wednesday, January 10, 1996 at 7:46:09 am EST Dave, Thanks for the advice on the surrey top! Were getting more snow as I write this and another major storm this Friday! Lot's of winter driving accidents, most with 4WD vehicles! Seems that the average mentality around here is "I have 4WD so I'm invincible"! These nuts forget that they too have to eventually come to a stop and 4WD does nothing for braking at 65MPH! I can't wait for summer!!!!!!! Looks like there will still be plenty of snow to play in when I get my Def back from RN......... Now if I could just get up my driveway. >From Sturbridge, MASS. Home of the 4WD mall hopping idiots! Cheers, Barnett From "barnett childress" Wed Jan 10 8:00:37 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 8:00:37 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:Re: Differentials Bennett, Hummers have open diffs. They also double the available torque at each wheel somehow. ARB has just come out with a version of their Air Locker for Hummers! Barnett. From BDaviscar@aol.com Wed Jan 10 08:17:02 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:17:02 -0500 From: BDaviscar@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 rattles For all you who own D90's with rattles, and that have friends with Series Anything. Go for a long ride with them at highway speeds. after that you won't notice your rattes so much. Bruce Chicago (what did you say?) 67 SIIA 88 Patches (the loud inside one.) From jpappa01@interserv.com Wed Jan 10 05:34:48 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:34:48 -0800 From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: ABS Some confusion on an earlier posting about *passive and active* ABS on RR vs. Disco. Both are correct. Yes the performance characteristics of the two vehicles are the same in that they are true *4-channel/4-wheel* systems. Confusion exists probably about the ABS pumps. On RR it operates full time. Owners know this. You know the humming noise that you hear occasionally which lowers in frequency and cuts out every few minutes! That is the ABS pump cycling. On DISCO, the ABS relies primarily on a vacuum reservoir to enable the system. It is lower in cost to manufacture this system - but does not compromise performance! Ever notice the different brake pedal *feel* between RR and Disco. RR has very hard pedal, brakes at top of stroke. Disco has more of a *traditional* progressive pedal feel. The reason is in the execution of the ABS system. So, both posts were *correct.* Cheers Jim - sittin' here looking at still more snow! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C Diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Wed Jan 10 02:01:59 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 02:01:59 MST From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Subject: Ice & Snow A lot of submissions have sounded like worst winter stuck entries of late. So heres my worst winter stuck. One fine sunny November morning myself and a friend set forth in my first (running) Land Rover to explore an area due west of Waterton Lakes National Park (thats in Southern Alberta about 50-75km north of Montana). The temp was about -5C clear skies and a light wind from the west. Road conditions were very good, no sign of trouble. Then at about 9:00am a roaring wind struck from the west and whipped up the snow to near white out levels. Eager to see what the Rover could get through we pressed on. The road become very slick and we observed a heard of cattle that was literally stuck up to their necks in snow. Shortly after this conditions be came so extreme that I was forced to stop because we could not tell if we where on the road or not. We sat in the Rover for about an hour watching several the snow buildup inside as it blew in through every imaginable crack it could find. At this point we decided we had better try to turn around. The engine did not turnover very well but it did start. I then atempted to back up, tires just spun, tried to move foward, more spinning tires, what gives? (There is still a total white out in action at this piont) We force open the doors against the wind and both get blow over by the force of the wind (latter equiry at Envi Canada showed that winds in the area reached 170km!!!!!!!!) My friend pulled himself back into the Rover and would not again exit it due to feeling that he would be blow away from the Rover and become lost/dead. I weigh 290lb and I was reduced to crawling on my hands and knees, the one time I stood I was soon on the ground again and unable to see the Rover for several minutes untill I saw it between gusts, I was only about four metres away. At this time I found the problem that was preventing the movement of the truck, it had become surronded by about a foot of wind packed snow. Due to the wind it took over two hours to dig the Rover out because the wind was blinding me, I still could not stand and the snow would blow back into the holes as fast as I could dig them. In the end I got the vehical free by digging on at the front of the Rover, the windward side, and the wind then took over and blew all the snow out from under the truck. The remaining snow was so packed that I was able to then push the Rover sideways out of the remaineder with a jackall, the base of the jack had only drift packed snow to push against because I had it at 90 degrees to the ground. With the Rover now Free of the Drift I started it , again it did not run well and the alt light now come on, and backedup and turned sideways to the wide. Now it got really wild! The Rover begain to move sideways down the road (on level ground) and started to really pickup speed, it then hit another drift and stopped. I then turned off the engine due to its funny running and the alt light. We waited about another hour or so and the vissibility got better and the wind died down to about 100km. At this point I got out to take a look under the hood. I should have waited until the wind dropped some more because when I opened the hood a major gust lifted it and the spare tire out of my hands and threw it about 10 feet away into the snow. This then reviled the engine problem in all of its glory. The entire engine compartment was a solid mass of ice and snow. It was so completely incased that the fan and alt could not turn and after I had dug and chipped the front of the engine free I found that the belt had been burn through buy the main pully. The wind let off some more and I was able to replace the belt with a spare and I gru dragged the hood back over and fought it into place. The engine now ran a lot better and we started heading out of there. All of the ice under the hood now begain to melt and this led to several engine shut downs due to carb icing. During the last of these melt downs we where within sight of a farm and the farmer came out and invited us in for awhile. He had been hit worse than us by the wind, his pig barn had blown down and every pig but one died in less than 30min from exposure. Made us think about what could have happened to us. We thanked the farmer and headed home a couple of hours latter, had to crash some drifts and such but with the wind gone there where no more problems. Total stuck aprox eight to ten hours a wild story that most do not belive and a few pictures to prove it. Andrew Howton From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 10 96 Jan EST 1908 Date: 10 Jan 96 08:41:57 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: DIFF GUARDS RE: MARK TALBOTS QUESTION Safari Gard 909-698-6114 sell the diff guards that were seen a Mission Viejo LR. They are a very stout unit and are easily installed. I believe the price is $90 for one or $150 for two. I have seen them as well as all the SG accesories for the Disco and can vouch for the fit and quality-top notch stuff. Ihave a set of their Rock Sliders and am very impressed. Mark Ritter 94 Disco... Keeps getting better From ericz@cloud9.net Wed Jan 10 05:52:09 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:52:09 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Re: Cranks Gerald asks: > Speaking of cranks which LR's can be started with a hand operated > crank? Well the stage 1 V8 has provision for crank starting but getting it started is another matter.... I have 2 bent crank handles waiting to be straightened and reinforced, then I might try again.. Dont seem to be able to get it spinning fast enough to catch, any suggestions. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) I really haven't had much problem starting my Stage I with a crank. I just get it up against the 'compression' and give it a 1/3 turn upward and it usually starts. I've done this on numerous occasions with quite a few surprised people. At the Downeast Rally, I couldn't tell if the engine had started because of the airplane noise! It probably depends quite a bit on the particular engine. higher compression might make this much more difficult. Being involved with older antique cars (pre-1916) leads me to stress something: NEVER, NEVER push down on the crank. Sooner or later you will break your arm when the engine kicks back. Always pull up when cranking an engine. Eric From David.Tinley@bbc.co.uk (Dave Tinley) 10 96 Jan EST 1914 Date: 10 Jan 96 14:12:48 EST From: David.Tinley@bbc.co.uk (Dave Tinley) Subject: Re: Differentials Attn: "barnett childress" & Bennett I think Hummers use Portal axles ala Unimog, which give higher ground clearance and torque doubling at the wheel. Just the thing for deep wading & hill climbing! _______ [____|\_\== David.Tinley@bbc.co.uk [_-__|__|_-] ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ 'keep it on all fours' From "Andrew A. Dallas" Wed Jan 10 09:50:32 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:50:32 -0500 From: "Andrew A. Dallas" Subject: Fwd: re:D90 rattles > My D90 has quite a few rattles. Most come and go. Sometimes I think > they're coming from the inertial reel seatbelt things. Nothing has fallen [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > doing, Dave." (I don't even think about what the neighbors must be thinking) > -David I've tracked down a few rattles in my D90. It appears that the rear latch rattles because of a defective bolt in the top gate hinge. The other rattle is the back seat against the square metal retaining brackets - the ones that keep the seat from folding forward. I haven't come up with a good fix yet but I'm planning on trying dome of those plastic door protectors. -AD ************************************************* Andrew A. Dallas Full Spectrum Software 360 Market St. Suite 18 Brighton, MA 02135 (617) 782-9829 on-site office: (508) 647-2948 adallas@tiac.net http://www.tiac.net/users/adallas/ ************************************************* From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Wed Jan 10 09:49:00 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:49:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: re:freezing discovery >From: >Subject: freezing discovery [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > could hear a thump thump thump for several seconds until the engine > oil made its way around. sounded like the main bearings to me. Maybe a silly question but I assume you are running with a lower weight oil (i.e. 10W30 or 5W30). I assume you mean -15F which if I subtract a case of beer and divide by 2 leads me to about -25C! }:-) I have had no problem starting my Discovery at that or lower temperatures without the block. But if a plug is available, I do plug it in. > wheels felt square, auto tranny really didn't want to change, drove > slowly for the first few minutes until everything loosened up. Can > anyone in Canada tell us folks about the LR block heater you have as > standard up there? where does the plug come out, where does it plug in I have only had square wheels at -40 or lower and yes the tranny does get sluggish at about -10C. I've just gotten used to it. The plug, as installed, sits in a little mount on the NAS driver side next to the rad. It comes with about half a meter of cord to let it out from under the hood and terminates as a standard 3 prong electrical outlet (male). I carry an extention cord in the back just in case I come across a plug. Cheers, -Christian From Stephen Brown Wed Jan 10 08:06:44 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:06:44 -0700 From: Stephen Brown Subject: Re: RR power seat On Tue, 9 Jan 1996, Shaun Carrigan wrote: > Help! Dearest just borrowed the '88 Range Rover and moved up the seat to > accommodate her 5'0" frame. When I tried to climb in, there was no [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > there a way to manually move the seat back far enough to drive it until > a repair can be made? And Walter Swain wrote: > Hmm, it must be the season or something. I just had the same experience, > except in reverse. My seat will go back, but not forward. This means [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > think I'd better get it fixed anyway). The strange thing is that both > seats are doing the same thing. Could there be a common cause? > I'm thinking about opening up the switch boxes and spraying in some > solvent to clean the contacts since several people have mentioned the need [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > passive approach to Land Rover repair. Any ideas on a more proactive > approach? I had the same experience on my 88 RR -- two problems came up. First and foremost in the switch box there is a rubber sheet just under the cover to keep the spilled coffee out of the electrics. On my truck this sheet was getting rumpled up and preventing the switch from moving one or both directions. The top of theswitch cover is easy to take off and you can push the rubber back down around the switch shafts and fix the problem for a time. Later on I found that nothing would work again! The rubber wasn't the problem this time. I fiddled and farted around with the wiring, fuses, connections under the seat and finally it started working and has been for almost a year -- must have been a dirty connection. You can move the seats by hand -- disconnect the drive cables from the stepper motors (looks like a flexible speedometer cable) and turn the cable ends by hand. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /==============\ | `63 | IIa | Stephen Brown |______|_______| Geomechanics Department, MS-0751 /___/^^^^^^\___\9 Sandia National Laboratories |oo|(@)##(@)|oo| Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185 | | [####] | | ======%%%%====== email: srbrown@sandia.gov {*}={&&}====={*} {*} {*} RockNet: http://sair019.energylan.sandia.gov:70 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Fred Ellsworth Wed Jan 10 10:14:47 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:14:47 -0500 From: Fred Ellsworth Subject: LR Sightings in NW, etc. Howdy all, Just got back to Boston from two weeks in the balmy Northwest, mostly Seattle. Saw lots of Rovers, nicest were- 1) Blue D-90 in parking lot of Larry's Market in Totem Lake 2) Epedition equipped SIII (I think, didn't get a good look at front) w/ roofrack, highlift, jerrycans, etc driving past the train station in Vancouver, BC 3) Blue SIIA 88 hardtop also in Vancouver with a radiator muff, brown rear door, jerry can mounted on rear tire carrier, and camel trophy sticker in back window. I honked and gave a thumbs up but was driving an Acura- and only got a funny look in return. Anyone on the list? Last time I mentioned Boeing Surplus (in Seattle) a couple people asked about titanium diamondplate. I was there last week and they had titanium sheets for $8/lb, not diamondplate but thick enough for use as skid plates. Lots of other cool stuff too, everything sold by the pound (and geiger counters for $20- but my SO balked). I'm still having trouble starting our SIIA in the cold, even with the Luminition. When its really cold (like now) it requires ether, and when it finally starts it barely runs- like maybe only a couple cylanders are firing or something, then after about 15-20 seconds it all of a sudden starts idling normally. Still no power till it warms up completely. Any more ideas? My latest theory is a too low carb float level, but I haven't had a chance to test it. Looking forward to more snow in Boston, Fred '71 IIA 88" From Gene Sparks Wed Jan 10 07:16:32 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 07:16:32 -0800 From: Gene Sparks Subject: Increasing Discovery's Gas Mileage First of all a Hearty How-D-Do to everyone in this group! My name is = Gene and I'm a proud new owner of a 96 Discovery here in the state of = Washington, USA..I must say I'm very impressed with almost every aspect = of this fine vehicle. One area that could be improved though, is the gas = mileage. I've recently made a few minor additions to the disco that have = given me an increase of 5 MPG so I thought as my first post to this = group I'd share this info with all of you. First of all I replaced the = stock champion plugs (YUK) with Splitfires and gapped them at .038. The = part # is SF6D. By doing this it also noticeably increased my throttle = response (read increased horsepower). Secondly I changed my oil and = replaced it with 1 quart of "Duralube" and the remainder with 10-40w = Castrol Syntech Synthetic oil. And finally and most importantly I = replaced the Air filter with a K&N lifetime filter. The parts stores = will tell you that there is no application for a discovery, but I found = out that the air filter that is used in the Discovery is identical to = the one that is used in an 86-91 944 Turbo Porshe. So if you ask for a = K&N Air filter for that car you'll get the proper filter for your Disco. = The filter will fit precisely with NO modifications. After I bought the Disco I ran three tanks of fuel with no modifications = and in mixed driving (locked diff and not) I averaged 14.5 MPG. Since = I've made the modifications I've used three tanks of fuel in mixed = driving and my mileage has increased to 19.2 overall. Not only did my = MPG increase but also the overall performance of My Disco is better. It = feels more peppy and it's passing times 50-70 MPH are much quicker. I hope this was helpful to all the other Disco owners out there If you = have any questions about this stuff contact me at galleryg@techline.com = or stop by my homepage at http://www.techline.com/~galleryg/ Gene From "Tom Rowe" Wed Jan 10 09:39:52 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 09:39:52 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: One Brahmin Writes Harry Hewson writes; snip > After a few minutes of pondering this I've come to accept that I am > truely a part of the highest caste. If any of you Series, Disco or Defender snip Pish-tosh, the British army still had to fly in a series Rover to get their RR's through the Darien Gap. Oh, but there was no snow. ;-) OH NO! I hope I haven't started another "My Rover's better than yours" thread. So how much beer do I need to buy you to learn the handshake? Would a case do? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From GElam30092@aol.com Wed Jan 10 10:59:26 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:59:26 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Mercedes AAV I have my doubts as the viability of an off-road vehicle built near Tuscaloosa Alabama. Do that mean that gun racks are optional? How about spittoons? A horn that plays "Roll Tide" or "War Eagle"? Dog Cages? Wheels that are all the same size & make? Turnsignals? Cheers... Gerry E. From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Wed Jan 10 11:08:49 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 11:08:49 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: RR parts and v8 motor Q? Dear list: Someone is selling a 91 RR rolling chassis. Is anyone doing a coil conversion and might have an interest in it? I might be interested in the motor. What was the lineup in 90 or 91 (in US) - 3.5? 3.9? 4.2? Thanks. Please e-mail, as I am digesting as of late (how did I get kicked-off the RT list?) Jan From "Tom Rowe" Wed Jan 10 10:08:32 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 10:08:32 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Brake problems, rims, propane heaters Nate Dunsmore writes: snip > Another alternative to grinding down needle-nose visegrip teeth is to contact > a local hospital and ask if they have old bowel clamps they're going to snip That seems very appropriate considering some of the stuff I've seen come out in old brake fluid. I'll check the horsepistol here. Jim Cirbus asks: snip "equipped with 16" rims. The 65,000 dollar question: Can these rims be used with tubeless tires? I have seen tubeless tires on Series rims in" snip I ran tubeless tires on my '67 16" deep offset NADA rims for years, no problem. I currently have tubeless tires on my '73 15" rims, again no problem. On to propane heaters. I finally remembered to check my catalog. Zerostart's propane powered tank heaters come in 5 models, the two smallest being the most appropriate for LR's. Model 820-5000 is 2.5" O.D. x 9.5" high and put's out 5,000btu, equivalent to 1,450 watts. It uses about 3.5 oz. of fuel/hr. 1989 SRP price approaching $300 US. Model 820-5043 is 4.5" O.D. x 10.5" high, puts out 10,000btu equiv. to 2,900 watts and uses about 6.5 oz of fuel/hr. 1989 SRP a little over $300 US. They come with everything you need except for your propane tank and fuel line. Zerostart aslo makes all kinds of other heaters, block, thermo-siphon, battery blankets, diesel fuel heaters and more. I'll be getting a current price book if anyone is interested. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Wed Jan 10 11:08:41 1996 Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 11:08:41 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Diesel imports Dear All, I have seen a few listings recently that people are under the impression that diesel Rovers can be imported to the US in later models than petrols. Don't get me wrong, If you can get a Defender 110 through I think it is great, but the true letter of the law does not allow the later diesels, and I don't want to see anyone loose money, or worse yet, a Rover due to the wrong information. As I said this is the law, how you choose to follow or go around it is your business, good luck. The EPA does allow for later model diesel vehicles, right now the early SIII's, BUT, their are two important documents you must sign upon an entry bond. One is the EPA form, this relates to the gas engines up to 1969 (actually 1970, but the forms have not been updated yet), and diesels a bit later. The problem is the second DOT form. The DOT form is much more important than the EPA form as far as customs etc. It has NO stipulation as far as gas or diesel. They run on a rolling 25 year policy, no exceptions, unless you want to pay a registered importer a ton of money to legalize it. So the diesel may get you by the EPA, but getting by the EPA form in NO WAY gets you past the more strcit DOT form. I checked this information with my contact at D