From jory@org.org (jory bell) Mon Jul 31 01:02:56 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 01:02:56 -0700 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: Re[2]: DAP experiences [schnip] :OK, Spencer. I have no intention of becoming an apologist for Al, not that :any apologies are warranted. As you can see, those who know Al as Tom and I :do are not offended by a "pompous" manner and sometimes rough language. : :As to Al's observations, they are proving themselves correct. I'm guilty :of chattering in repeating Al's comments, and you're willing to destroy DAP's :fine reputation with a quaint little story that is nothing more than heresay! I don't know about all this chattering or whatever, but I had terrible experiences with both the qualitu of parts and service from DAP back when it was in Wareham, Massachusetts. Al was always pleasant enough though... he just sold sucky parts in my several [thousand dollars worth of] experience. If the impending changes in LR parts distribution (less "original" parts, etc) mean more OEM the likes of that sold by DAP, I may have to consider selling my rover, since I can't afford to replace all my major components every couple of years or so... jory From Mike Rooth Mon Jul 31 9:23:21 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 9:23:21 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Distinguished Owners..Another David Gower,ex England cricket captain(and local lad) New Range Rover Reg M170LKV. Cheers Mike Rooth From i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk Mon Jul 31 11:57:35 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 11:57:35 BST From: i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk Subject: Brake Judder Hi all Well my SWB has successfully passed its MOT :-), (how it got through the emissions, I'll never know) just in time because we're off on holiday next weekend. However, on driving back from the MOT centre, I found that there is conseiderable juddering at the rear when I break. Also one of the rear wheels locks. And this had just passed its MOT!!! (ie. road worthiness test).I removed the break drums from both rear wheels to reveal lots of fibrous material, presumably break lining. Also the surfaces of the shoes appear to be flaking in some places Could this be causing the juddering? The break drums do not appear to be warped. Just before the MOT I replaced the rear diff with a spare (not reconditioned unit). Could it be the diff? Any help gratefully received as I would like to drive home to Bonnie Sotland and back next week! Cheers Ian From Alan Richer 31 95 Jul EDT 1908 Date: 31 Jul 95 8:54:44 EDT From: Alan Richer Subject: Suggestions for throttle linkage bits needed Yeah, me again...8*) Well, the motor is in and ran with fuel poured down its gullet. I am pleased....which is an understatement. However, I am missing a bit or two and am looing at suggestions as to sources of supply. What I need at present is the linkage betweeen the throttle bellcrank mounted on the steering box and the linkage of the Solex (yeah, I know, gotta get a Weber, but I have it and it works) and the ball ends that affix the aforementioned device to the links. Anybody got one lying around in the junkbox they want to lose, or any suggestions as to a good source of supply for said items new? Vultures R" Us... -ajr From mmurphy@evolving.com (Mark Murphy) Mon Jul 31 07:16:17 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 07:16:17 -0600 From: mmurphy@evolving.com (Mark Murphy) Subject: Discovery Door Locks Just bought a '95 Discovery and have a question about the door locks. When I use the key or remote to unlock the doors, all five doors unlock. For me at work, this isn't a problem. If my wife take the Discovery to class (gets out a 9:30 pm) and thinks someone is by the vehicle, all five doors unlocking is not good. Am I missing something? How do I get just the driver's door to unlock? thanks, Mark Murphy '95 white 5spd cloth Discovery - 5 days old, ~4600 lbs From hiner@roadrunner.com (Greg Hiner) Mon Jul 31 09:50:44 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 09:50:44 -0600 From: hiner@roadrunner.com (Greg Hiner) Subject: 5 speeds for LR This is a follow up to a question floating around earlier about 5 speed transmissions for series LR. Advance Adapters in the US 805 238-7000 fax 805 238-4201 imports an adapted heavy duty Nissan 4 & 5 speed transmission from Mark's 4WD Adaptors in Australia (03-793-3388) that is modified to bolt directly to the LR transfer case. Bellhousings available for Holden 6 cylinder, Ford 6 cylinder, Range Rover and Leyland V8s and Isuzu Diesels (as well as Nissan diesels). At the time when I got the info (1994) there was no bellhousing available for the 2.25. They were supposed to come out with one soon however. Though the transmission bolts directly to the transfer case I do believe that it is longer than the original 4 speed so you will need to shift the engine forward. Greg From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Mon Jul 31 11:06:59 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 11:06:59 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: winch mount for RR I apologize for accidentally deleting an inquitry from someone with a 90 RR regarding a hidden winch mount; if you recontact me I'll send the information! My apologies John Brabyn 89RR From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Jul 31 13:23:24 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 13:23:24 PDT From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: LAND ROVER ICON All, I have converted the LRLOGO from bitmap to ICO. Anyone want a copy e-mail me back. Mark From Jimi Patel Mon Jul 31 11:11:25 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 11:11:25 -0700 From: Jimi Patel Subject: DAP experiences Dear Michael Carradine, Can you please e-mail me DAP's phone number. I would like to convey the fellow rover-net members ... Have you tried to get parts from England for a 20/30 year old vehicles?? and see it for yourselves what you come across. Countless phone calls, wrong parts being sent, waiting months etc. While DAP, RN, BP etc., are really doing us a service providing parts and technical information and what nots. A small amount of dis-service ought not warrant a bad label on DAP. Regards, Jimi Patel.. e-mail jimi@voyager.jpl.nasa.gov P.S. I have never used the above mentioned parts stores, but i understand to give them a try having constantly getting stuff from England WRONG!!! From "R. Pierce Reid" 31 95 Jul EDT 1916 Date: 31 Jul 95 16:46:35 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: D90 Gaiters -- How To Wonder of wonders, gaiters *do* fit on a D90. Of course, it takes a lot of fabrication, drilling, grinding and language that would make a drill sergeant blush. First, the fabrication -- this starts when someone tells you that Land Rover makes a part 'RTC3826' that is supposed to fit the D90. This is a complete fabrication. But, whether it fits or not is beside the point. You need to buy one. (BTW, I am not sure what it is *supposed* to fit. But I can assure you that it is not supposed to fit a U.S. Spec. D90.) Before we get into the joyous process of installation... let's define gaiters (this is especially for the benefit of those who have never owned a Series Rover and have therefore never had to endure the pain of being told you need to shell out $600 for new swivel balls because your old ones are pitted like a giant golf ball.) Gaiters are leather 'bags' that cover the swivel balls on the ends of your front axle. The swivel balls are part of a ball and socket-type joint that makes up the front steering arrangement. These balls are made of steel and are totally exposed to the elements. On series Land Rovers, they seem to be made of Rust and merely covered with a very thin clating of a shiny metallic looking substance. Though the swivel balls are constantly 'wiped' with oil from the front seals, the eventually can succumb to the elements (and salty roads) and end up pitted. When this happens, the oil runs out of the reservoirs inside the swivel balls and onto your garage floor (or onto the windshield of the Yugo that is tailgating you) necessitating constant replenishment of oil. The pits also chew up your seals, making them useless. And, the pits can allow water to penetrate, causing even worse problems, not the least of which is having to explain to your spouse or significant other that you have to shell out another $400 to Rovers North for additional parts.. Though I have heard claims that the D90 swivel balls are a more rust-resistant alloy than the old Series LR's... I am not sure I want to wait 5 years to see if that's true, and I have a hunch U.S. Spec D90 parts are going to stay *really* expensive well into the future. When covered with leather gaiters, these swivel balls are considerably better protected from the elements. Mind you, gaiters are not perfect, but they are better than a constant bath of salt spray in the winter and they can keep dust and sand off the swivel balls in more tropical/dusty climates. Personally, I like having gaiters on a Rover. So... now that you know *why* you want gaiters. Once you have part number 'RTC3826', unwrapped from the plastic bag with "Genuine Land Rover" written in Farsi on it, you will see you have 2 leather pieces that can be shaped into cones, 2 shoelace like strings, 2 large hose clamps and 4 metal pieces of varying shapes and lengths that I call "half-rings". You will also see that you have no @#$%ing instructions (but that's ok, because we men never ask directions and real Land Rover owners never read the instructions anyway.) Your first step is to gather tools... you will need a small (and I mean small -- 1/4 drive Craftsman is ideal) socket wrench, metric sockets, a grinder, drill with bits up to 1/4 inch, a rat-tail file (1/4 inch), flat file, a leather punch (optional), and lots of shop rags. Also some 90 weight gear oil and a tub of axle grease and a bottle of isopropyl alcohol. For those who want to take the wheel off (it is not necessary) you will need a jack and jackstands. Really, you can do this with the wheel on. Start by slathering the leather pieces generously with axle grease, especially on the inside (thr rough side). Work it in with your hands... saturate the leather well. Then, go have a few beers and leave the project overnight so the leather can soak up the grease. This is important as it helps waterproof the leather and if the leather is not water resistant, it becomes (you guessed it) water absorbant. You know what that will do... Next morning, you are ready to begin. Take the alcohol and use it to thoroughly clean the swivel ball. Clean the crud off the seal and off the seal retainer ring as well. You want all the sand and dirt off and a spotlessly clean swivel ball (and immediate area.) Now, you're ready to begin. You'll note that the holes on the metal half-ring parts you have do not line up with the nuts on the swivel ball seal retaining ring. You will have to drill some new holes and elongate some existing ones in the half-ring. On the right hand wheel (on your left as you face the vehicle), use the shorter of the two metal pieces across the bottom... from about 9 o'clock to 3 o'clock. The slightly longer one goes over the top. Since you are a Land Rover owner and would be insulted if I stated the obvious... you will need to look at how the holes line up and make suitable modifications to the piece so that the bolts line up. This will involve elongating a couple of holes and drilling a couple more. It will also involve grinding about 1/4 inch off the top metal bracket at the 3 o'clock position. You will also have to grind a small section out of one piece at about the 8 o'clock position to allow it to clear the wheel stop bolt. Once the pieces are lined up, you are ready to install the leather pieces. First, remove the three bolts along the bottom (they are at about 8, 6 and 4 o'clock around the swivel ball.) When you undo these, you will get some oil leakage unless you hold your thumb on the retaining ring at about the 6 O'clock position. Now, line up the holes on the leather piece with the holes on the metal ring. You will probably need to punch at least one new hole. Position the leather, too, so that the seam you will later stitch up is at the rear (three O'clock position). Then, bolt the half-ring into place and fold the flap over the top of the axle and out of your way. Then, remove the three top bolts and attach the leather piece under the top half-ring so that it is secured all around. (I know, this is a very hard process to visualize when written out, but if you own a Defender, you will be able to figure out this process very quickly... really.) Now, lace the leather up in back. It will be easier if you start the engine and turn the wheel all the way to the left. Lace the gaiters in an X pattern, overlapping the leather so that the holes on the top flap go over the top of the first set of holes on the bottom flap. Then lace in an X pattern and tie off. Finally, take the hose clamp and install it right next to the large flange that connects the swivel ball assembly to the axle housing. The flange will have about 8 large bolts through it, and you want to get the clamp as close to these bolts as possible. Put the screw at 6 o'clock facing forward. Tighten until almost completely tight, start the engine again and thrn the wheels lock to lock a couple of times. Then, make sure the leather is not bunched up or snagged anywhere. Then, turn the engine off and tighten the hose clamp the rest of the way. The other wheel is about the same as the first... but requires grinding and drilling holes in different places. Again, you are Land Rover owners... you'll know what to do. Finally, slap a little (ok, a lot) more grease on the outside and rub it in. Do this a couple of times in the first week or two and make extra efforts to drive down dusty roads... the coating of dust on the outside will help seal the gaiters even further. So, apart from the cutting, drilling and grinding, the process for installing gaiters on a D90 is about the same as it is for a Series LR or any other LR product. But, contrary to what I had been told, it *is* possible to fit gaiters onto a D90 and, IMHO, well worth the time and effort. Cheers, R. P. Reid From "John B. Friedman" Mon Jul 31 15:57:09 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 15:57:09 -0500 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Discovery at 2000 miles Anyone interested in milage and gas in Discovery? I just finished putting 2000 miles on mine, 1600 mile trip to Pennsylvania, mostly flat freeway but some mountains, 18% grades and some long ones. The car ran perfectly, no problems except the occasional strange epileptic right turn signal fast flashing in hot weather. I don't know if I have actual flashing bulbs then or not. But clearly the bulbs are not defective as they work the rest of the time. In steady freeway driving through Indiana and Ohio I began to get 22.4 at 65(no air on) and using cruise control. I was picking up almost a mile per gallon to a tankful as the car broke in. I noticed that this went down considerably with the air on, perhaps as much as 2-3 miles a gallon. Also that at 55-60 with no cruise I only got 21.9, so cruise definitely helps. City driving gives 12-13 MPG with air on. This driving done using plus grade, 89 octane(often the cheapest I could find) with no difference in performance between it and premium that I could sense. There was certainly no pinging on the long grades. The car is very slow up hills and went up 18% er in 2d gear. This may be its weight or just that it is still pretty tight. No oil leaks, and oil looked pretty clean. I did notice a lot of brake pad powder on the front wheels after 2000 miles and think the pads may either be seating in or will wear quickly. I did little braking and that gently, so think again it is the weight of the car. Be warned not to stuff anything under the passenger's seat, as the space is inviting but there is a relay there--perhaps in the amp--which can be moved out of its socket easily. From Leland J Roys Mon Jul 31 14:16:29 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 14:16:29 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Trailer Light Trailer Light ------------- Starting last week, when I use the turn signal (left or right), the panel light with the trailer picture will flash along with the turn signal light. It will flash only 1 time, and then only the turn signal flashes. I do not have a trailer connected, and I checked all the turn signal lights and they are all OK. Does anybody know why this is happening (The truck is a 1994 Def-90 bought about 3 months ago). Leland J. Roys Cupertino, California '94 Defender 90 (Red) roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Jul 31 17:49:15 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 17:49:15 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: def110 sale As seen in yesterday's NY Times: Defender 110, 38K miles, $36,500, or was it the other way around.... something like that, anyway. Seen in the out of town addition. At least it wasn't outrageous. rgds, rd/nigel From Jimi Patel Mon Jul 31 15:09:37 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 15:09:37 -0700 From: Jimi Patel Subject: This fellow Sam has Rover spirit in him, would you agree ?? Status: RO ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE BY JPL as I once knew it Sam Brunstein At Jpl today, problem solving is complex. If something goes wrong with a piece of spacecraft hardware, the person noticing the problem writes a Problem/Failure Report (PFR). The seriousness of the problem is evaluated by several internal agencies. If the problem is significant the PFR is referred to a Material Review Board (MRB) for evaluation and a recommended solution. If the Project approves the MRB recommendation, the Cognizant Engineer fixes the problem. The phone woke me up. I looked at the clock -- 2 a.m. Not good. "Sam?" said the voice. "Uh" said I. "It's Tom at the Spacecraft Assembly Facility." "What's up, Tom?" "One of my guys bumped your antenna with his head, and he bent one of those little wires that stick out, bent it over about half-way. What should I do?" Now I was awake. "I don't know. I'll come and look." This spacecraft had two antennas. One was a low-gain that sprayed radio-waves in nearly all directions but the waves weren't very strong. The other antenna was the high-gain. It focused the radio-waves into a powerful beam. Both antennas were fastened to the body of the craft so they pointed where the spacecraft was pointed. Throughout the last half of the flight the high-gain antenna would point to the earth, and when the ship got to Mars it would provide the strong signal that allowed fast data transfer to earth. But during the first half of the flight the spaceship was at the wrong angle and only the wide-angle low- gain antenna could talk with the earth. Even in the last half of the mission, if the craft lost its pointing stabilization the high-gain antenna would point the wrong way. The low-gain antenna would be needed to receive commands to help get the ship out of trouble. My antenna was the low-gain antenna. It was important that it work right. This antenna was really mine, all the way down my gut. I dreamt it up, designed it, built it, tested it, and delivered it to the spacecraft assembly crew. For two years I lived with this baby every day, and I mean every day. Ten hours a day, seven days a week. For the last year of the development I had pieces of that antenna in my hand every day. I knew what it looked like, what it felt like, and what it smelled like. I knew this thing with its clothes off. It was MINE. I was its Cognizant Engineer, Bob Thomas was its midwife, and Bill Layman was its mother. job. I worked with the mission designers to develop the requirements for it. Then I designed it. There were countless hours of cut-and-try with Bob Thomas on the Mesa Antenna Range. We didn't use computers for this kind of design. My timeshare segment of the mainframe computer was 64 kilobits. Good for some stuff, but not for solving megapoint vector equations. Nowadays we would design it on a PC. The design led to a shining, hollow tube of aluminum, about four inches across and six feet long. The metal skin had to be very thin and lightweight, yet the shaft had to be almost perfectly round. Building that sucker was a real challenge, but we had a talented mechanical engineer. Bill Layman solved all the problems. By the time that antenna was ready to be delivered, there were three or four of us that had a very personal interest in its welfare. After I went through the clean-room rain dance, I ignored the Test Team and walked straight to the spacecraft and my antenna. At the top of the antenna there were sixteen thin aluminum wires about three inches long sticking straight out from the tube. These were needed to make the radio-waves go in exactly the right directions. One of them was bent down about 45 degrees. No catastrophe, but worrisome. If it broke off in space, would the radio waves go way off course? Not likely, but it would have some effect. If it broke off in space would it interfere with some other part of the ship? Maybe. Nobody knew for certain. We had a spare antenna. But putting a spare onto a spaceship that was halfway through testing is a big deal. A lot of stuff has to be unscrewed to get at things, and there is plenty of opportunity to damage more equipment. It's a risk. I got a magnifying glass and looked closely at the base of the bent wire. I didn't see any cracks. I reached out and bent it back where it belonged then looked again. Still no cracks. "Fly it," I said, and went home to bed. Slept like a log. They flew it. It worked. Mariner IV passed by Mars in July of 1965. It sent back 21 television pictures of the planet, using the high-gain antenna. During flight, the spacecraft did have problems with its attitude stabilization. The low-gain antenna was used to correct the problems. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Jul 31 15:08:20 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 15:08:20 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: D90 Gaiters R. Pierce Reid writes: >Start by slathering the leather pieces generously with axle grease, especially >on the inside (thr rough side). Work it in with your hands... saturate the >leather well. Then, go have a few beers and leave the project overnight so the >leather can soak up the grease. This is important as it helps waterproof the >leather and if the leather is not water resistant, it becomes (you guessed it) >water absorbant. You know what that will do... R. P., I enjoyed your novella on Rover gaiters. Since you said that real men don't read instructions, I'll throw yours away so that next timed I install gaiters they will be 'lost' :) Not to be picky, but isn't the leather supposed to be 'primed' with vaseline instead of axle grease? Did you by chance make a copy of the leather pattern before installing it (Several people on the net --especially New Zealanders and Australians where sheep outnumber women 100:1 -- expressed an interest in fabricating their own from leather and other readily available parts)? What is your opinion regarding the issue of gaiters actually contributing to the deterioration of swivel balls by retaining moisture and mud debris, etc (I favor gaiters myself, but..). Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 .plan available _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From LANROVEFN@aol.com Mon Jul 31 18:51:18 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:51:18 -0400 From: LANROVEFN@aol.com Subject: Land Rover Model Cars I attended a model car show in Parsippany NJ yesterday and was very disappointed at the lack of quality Land Rover models out there. It seemed there was everything but Land Rovers. I found an old Dinky 109 and a few Range Rovers that looked like they came out of the 5 & 10. However they did have an obscure replica of the Howmet Turbine car that cost $200. Thoughts and comments please. Mike Schmidt 94 Disco From jsavage@elephant.com (James Savage) Mon Jul 31 17:52:02 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:52:02 -0500 From: jsavage@elephant.com (James Savage) Subject: Electrical problem? I've been having what seems to be an electrical problem with my '90 County. My cruise control functions erradically. Half the time it works fine, the other half I am unable to get the cruise control main gateway to operate properly. When I depress the cruise control main gateway switch, the button does not illuminate and the cruise control is not operational. When I then switch off the gateway I get the "Service Engine" light on the dash. Any help would be greatly appreciated, James - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - James Savage Systems Integrator Pachyderm, LLC Phone: (414)784-2466 333 Bishops Way Suite 144 Fax: (414)784-8373 Brookfield, WI 53005 Email: jsavage@pchydrm.com Visit our Web site: http://www.pchydrm.com - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - From "Mark Talbot" Mon Jul 31 16:08:57 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 16:08:57 PDT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Re: LR ICON WWW site needed All, Having trouble with this icon even with UUCODE, anyone help me get it to a WEB SITE ? Mark From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jul 31 19:34:49 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:34:49 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Discovery Door Locks Mark asks about locks... > Just bought a '95 Discovery and have a question about the door locks. > When I use the key or remote to unlock the doors, all five doors unlock. / > For me at work, this isn't a problem. If my wife take the Discovery to > class (gets out a 9:30 pm) and thinks someone is by the vehicle, all > five doors unlocking is not good. Am I missing something? How o I get > just the drivr's door to unlock? / Easy to fix. I'll trade you even - Your Disco for my '65 IIa SWB Station Wagon. One key for the drivers door, one key for the rear door, no key for the passengers door (the lock is on the inside). All the locks work fine. And none of those stinkin' electronic gizmo's to give you trouble! :) > thanks, > Mark Murphy > '95 white 5spd cloth Discovery - 5 days old, ~4600 lbs / Cheers Mike Loiodice '65 green 4spd IIa - 30 years old, 2900 lbs From JDolan2109@aol.com Mon Jul 31 19:51:55 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 19:51:55 -0400 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: Long story made short? Tom Rowe Wrote: If you already are doing a valve job, then by all means make the conversion then. But even if you don't, I doubt that you would even notice it over the life of your car. And I thought LR's were immortal!! (Cars? Maybe he posted to the wrong list?) '''''''''''''''' Re: Pink Panthers: Call me a conservative but- I'd try Thompson's at first. Adequate, reliable and easy to service in the field. See 'ya on the old road... Jim '61 88" SW / OD, 1 Bbl weber & 16's (econobox?) LR....quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised! From jory@org.org (jory bell) Mon Jul 31 17:33:59 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:33:59 -0700 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: Re: 5 speeds for LR Greg Hiner wrote: :Advance Adapters in the US 805 238-7000 fax 805 238-4201 imports an adapted :heavy duty Nissan 4 & 5 speed transmission from Mark's 4WD Adaptors in :Australia (03-793-3388) that is modified to bolt directly to the LR :transfer case. Bellhousings available for Holden 6 cylinder, Ford 6 :cylinder, Range Rover and Leyland V8s and Isuzu Diesels (as well as Nissan :diesels). At the time when I got the info (1994) there was no bellhousing :available for the 2.25. They were supposed to come out with one soon :however. Though the transmission bolts directly to the transfer case I do :believe that it is longer than the original 4 speed so you will need to :shift the engine forward. Thanks Greg! I called Advanced Adapters, and after first denying any knowledge of the 5-speed, they located a Mark's 4wd catalog and gave me minimal info. I ended up calling Mark's 4wd directly. They do not have a bell housing for the 2.25 liter engine, and according to the person I spoke with, they are not going to be producing one. They didn't know of anyone else who might procuce or sell such a beast (ie any 5-speed conversion to go with the original engine). I tried calling Roverworks (someone said thy had dome some LT77 conversions) and received no reply to my messages (they do mention in their outgoing message that you should be patient, but longer than a week?). I left a second message after 10 days, but am not holding my breath... Any other pointers to 5-speed conversions for a series vehicle, with 2.25 liter petrol engine? Preferrably one that doesn't require moving the engine forward (although cutting driveshafts is fine). Maybe I am just out of luck on this one... In any case, I am worknig towards repairing my current 4-speed gearbox (it had lost access to 3rd and 4th gears). My gearbox, xfer case, od, seatbase, etc... are all on my floor now. I noticed some oil in the bellhousing, which I think is coming from the engine, so I guess I'll be replacing the rear main seal on the engine (the current seal was from DAP and installed 5 years ago, FWIW). I guess I might as well fit a new clutch while I am in there. Fun, fun. -jory From "Tom Rowe" Mon Jul 31 20:12:45 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:12:45 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: D90 Gaiters Snip > instead of axle grease? Did you by chance make a copy of the leather pattern > before installing it (Several people on the net --especially New Zealanders > and Australians where sheep outnumber women 100:1 -- expressed an interest in > fabricating their own from leather and other readily available parts)? What Snip Michael, Are you, per chance, looking for the pattern? When I installed new ones on LR for a customer some years back, I had a pattern made at a leather shop while I was getting some more made (on the theory that one day I'd want to replace mine). It's a nice pattern, made from 1/16th inch plastic sheet, quite durable. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Jul 31 18:12:49 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:12:49 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: USA LR Parts (Was: DAP experiences) Jimi Patel writes: >Can you please e-mail me DAP's phone number. I would like to convey the fellow >rover-net members ... Have you tried to get parts from England for 20/30 year [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >really doing us a service providing parts and technical information and what >nots. A small amount of dis-service ought not warrant a bad label on DAP. Agreed!! Here is DAP's phone as well as the other major L-Rover parts houses in the US that keep these aluminum workhorses on and off the road. AB Atlantic British Ltd. Ph. 800-533-2210 Orders PO Box 110 Ph. 518-664-6169 Mechanicville, NY 12118 Fax 518-664-6641 ABC Atlantic British Parts of California* PO Box 620 Ph. 916-778-3937 Lewiston, CA 96052 Fax 916-778-3937 BP British Pacific Ltd. Ph. 800-554-4133 Orders 3317 Burton Avenue Ph. 818-841-8945 Burbank, CA 91504 Fax 818-841-3825 DAP D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc* Ph. 802-885-6660 86 Clinton Street Fax 802-885-6662 Springfield, VT 05156 RN Rovers North, Inc Ph. 802-879-0032 Route 128 Fax 802-879-9152 Westford, VT 05494-9601 *Atantic British of California and D.A.P. Inc. are now affiliated, and have assimilated British Rovers formerly in Cavendish, VT. As you say, "Use them or lose them". Really! Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 .plan available _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From "Tom Rowe" Mon Jul 31 20:20:55 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:20:55 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Land Rover Model Cars Snip > replica of the Howmet Turbine car that cost $200. Thoughts and comments > please. Mike, That reminds me. The new Squadron Shop catalog lists two new Land Rover models for about $10 ea. They are in 1/76 scale I think. Minitank also produced a Land Rover some years back. Silly me, I never bought any even though I collected Minitanks as a kid. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Jul 31 20:29:31 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:29:31 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Long story made short? J. Dolan wrote: > Tom Rowe Wrote: > If you already are doing a valve job, then by all means make the conversion [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > And I thought LR's were immortal!! (Cars? Maybe he posted to the wrong list?) > '''''''''''''''' Jim, I at times refer to my LR as a car, truck, Rover, The Antichrist/Beast. Quite a few things, but NEVER a jeep. In case you were wondering. :-) Seriously though, since I suspect most of the people on this list own vehicles other than LR's, I was speaking generically. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.eduFrom Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 29 08:09:36 1986 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 86 08:09:36 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: D90 Gaiters -- How To I would like to add a few comments to the recent mail on this subject. First though, I should point out that I have never worked on one of these new-fangled coil sprung Landies, let alone a US spec version. 1) It is definitely "gaiters"; do "gaitors" bite? 2) The non-genuine gaiter kit that I fitted to my IIA came with instructions. These were quite helpful and stated that the leather should be coated in vaseline rather than grease. 3) I fitted my gaiters with the hub etc off the vehicle. This was enough of a struggle, whilst fitting on the vehicle is obviously possible it must be much more difficult. 4) The bolt pattern on the series swivel housing is asymetrical. Could this be the case with the 90/110? Consequently there is one right way of fitting and several wrong ways which result in poor alignment of the holes. On the Series kit The metal reatining band is fitted with the split at the bottom gaiter fits at the top. 5) In my view it would be a good idea to replace the zinc plated hose clips supplied with stainless items to avoid problems later. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From a-robw@microsoft.com Mon Jul 31 17:11:00 1995 Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 17:11:00 PDT From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: Discovery at 2000 miles I'm still waiting to get that > 20 MPG in my Disco. I only have 500+ miles on it, though and the best I've seen so far is 15.8 (freeway @ 65-70 w/ auto trans and A/C). ---------- ||From: LRO-Owner ||To: Land-Rover-Owner [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] ||as the space is inviting but there is a relay there--perhaps in the ||amp--which can be moved out of its socket easily. What exactly are those widgets under the passenger seat. It looks like one is a relay, and the other looks like a computer/amp or somesuch. I was a bit bewildered at at how "cheap" the wiring was to the "amplifier-looking" box. Espcially how it was exposed to the rear passenger's feet. I'm planning to put it in a plastic wire-loom as soon as I get a chance to go to the autoparts store. The "black-tape" just doesn't look 'finished' Speaking of unidentified widgits, behind (to the rear of) the front axle on the right side (passenger side in the US) there's a drum shaped object about 4-6" in diameter and about 1-2" wide with a cable attached. The axis of this drum-shaped gizmo is parallel to the axle. What is it? Also I noticed that the back door didn't seem to be installed/aligned quite right. Well, if that's the worse thing I find, I can't complain too much. After it's fixed that is :-) Thanks all, -- Bob Watson (Still geting to know my) 95 Discovery From "R. Pierce Reid" 01 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 01 Aug 95 08:40:31 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: Re: D90 Gaiters Michael: I did not retain a pattern... as I did not think I would write an article about this until I was about 80% done. Had I been thinking further ahead, I would have traced the metal brackets and the leather. oops. A friend of mine has aksed me to do his Disco, though, and I will trace the patterns when I do that. The specs should be identical. Also, it is possible that the OZ spec D90 is different from the NA Spec and that there *is* a gaiter kit for it. From what I understand, the D90 for the U.S. has a different front axle. As for the vaseline... that is another way to prime the leather, and it is a good one. I decided to let my gaiters sit for about 24 hours in a hot garage with a lot of grease on them. They were saturated. Either method should work fine. If you don;t want to leave it 24 hours... 90-weight should work well, followed by a liberal application of grease. I have heard theories about gaiters trapping moisture... but in my 30 years experience around Land Rovers, I have never seen a rusted out ball that I can attribute to a gaiter. Most of them that have gaiters installed and have *still* rusted have rusted because of water entering through other areas and eating the ball out from the inside (pooled under the oil inside the swivel ball.) That is not to say that, if the gaiter is not greased and sealed occasionally, or if it is allowed to get a hole (or installed wrong) it will *not* contribute to a rusty swivel ball... just that I have not seen it. Personally, I prefer gaiters. Cheers, R. P. Reid From "Tom Rowe" Tue Aug 1 07:55:24 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 07:55:24 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Gaiters/Gaitors Michael C. wrote: Snip > What I'd like to do is measure the pattern and make it available on the > Web for those do-it-your-selfers. It's not terribly complicated, really. > (Maybe you'd trace your pattern on a newspaper and send it to me?) Sure > BTW- Is it "gaiters" or "gaitors"?? Gaiters. I think putting gaitors on your swivel balls might be dangerous. Might loose a hand or arm you know. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Tue Aug 1 09:05:00 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:05:00 -0400 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: re: Discovery flashers (fast ones & trailers) A couple of times people have mentioned that their turn signals seem to flash very quickly when it is very hot. I had the same problem (but it is summer so I can't say if the heat is the dominating factor). The manual says that it is due to a bulb not working. The last time I saw this happen, I pulled over to check and sure enough, my left rear turn signal was not working. I then played with the socket a little and got it to work. If I pull the socket a little, I can get it to cut out again. I'll take a closer look this weekend and see if I can figure out which contact is loose. With respect to the trailer signal light going on once on a turn without a trailer, it is "documented" to do that as per the manual. It's either a design bug (dressed up feature) or more likely it lets you know if you have a problem with your trailer wiring. i.e. if you are pulling a trailer and it only flashes once then you are not wired correctly. Cheers, -Christian 95 Discovery From Roger Sinasohn Tue Aug 1 06:27:21 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 06:27:21 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: newbie stupid questions > 1. if 500 D110 came over in '93, can anyone import a '93 from UK? Nope. These were specially done up for NADA (North Am. Dollar A...?) > 4. if SII were imported upto '68, why do I see '70 gas models here in US. 109"s came in through '67; 88"s until '73-74. > 1. Is the pickup bulkhead on a 109" structurally important? Can it be > removed to get a SW? No and yes. *BUT* as pickups are scarcer than sw's, I would recommend trading a pu for a sw if that's what you want. But you can carry more than 2-3 in a pickup, with side-facing seats in the back. > 3. At the SII top speed of 60mph (?) in OD, what is the rpm? At 3000rpm's in 4th-OD, I'm doing ~70mph. I've got the toro OD, though. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Aug 1 06:27:55 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 06:27:55 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Limericks Another one... I once had a tire on my bonnet, The subject of this little sonnet, but with a bounce and a hop, it flew over the top, so now the roof's got a tire upon it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Aug 1 06:27:50 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 06:27:50 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Limericks and Clutch Push Rods On Tue, 25 Jul 1995, Russell G. Dushin wrote: If you did, can you measure it up for us? There's five or six of us out here wondering if our rods are long enough. Charlie Wright replied Uh-oh, I think I hear limmericks in the distance... And Trevor inspired... In measuring rods for their lengths, A Land Rover Owner's main strengths, is plenty of oil, pants that won't soil, and not being scared of a jinx. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Aug 1 06:27:45 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 06:27:45 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: 109" wanted My brother (the starving student) has caught the bug. He now wants a 109", preferably a 4-door. The problem is, he doesn't have a lot of money. He does, however, have tools and a good knowledge of car repair. So, if anyone knows of a 109" for sale cheap, (preferably in No. CA,) please let me know. Thanks! P.S. Mark Talbot - if you don't go for the one you mentioned, my brother might be interested. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 01 95 Aug EDT 1910 Date: 01 Aug 95 10:06:25 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Hubs --------------- Forwarded Message --------------- From elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Tue Aug 01 09:31:29 1995 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 1995 09:31:29 -0500 From: elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Subject: Something interesting Corey, Here's something I thought you might find interesting. Not funny, but interesting. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS GONE BY JPL as I once knew it Sam Brunstein At Jpl today, problem solving is complex. If something goes wrong with a piece of spacecraft hardware, the person noticing the problem writes a Problem/Failure Report (PFR). The seriousness of the problem is evaluated by several internal agencies. If the problem is significant the PFR is referred to a Material Review Board (MRB) for evaluation and a recommended solution. If the Project approves the MRB recommendation, the Cognizant Engineer fixes the problem. The phone woke me up. I looked at the clock -- 2 a.m. Not good. "Sam?" said the voice. "Uh" said I. "It's Tom at the Spacecraft Assembly Facility." "What's up, Tom?" "One of my guys bumped your antenna with his head, and he bent one of those little wires that stick out, bent it over about half-way. What should I do?" Now I was awake. "I don't know. I'll come and look." This spacecraft had two antennas. One was a low-gain that sprayed radio-waves in nearly all directions but the waves weren't very strong. The other antenna was the high-gain. It focused the radio-waves into a powerful beam. Both antennas were fastened to the body of the craft so they pointed where the spacecraft was pointed. Throughout the last half of the flight the high-gain antenna would point to the earth, and when the ship got to Mars it would provide the strong signal that allowed fast data transfer to earth. But during the first half of the flight the spaceship was at the wrong angle and only the wide-angle low- gain antenna could talk with the earth. Even in the last half of the mission, if the craft lost its pointing stabilization the high-gain antenna would point the wrong way. The low-gain antenna would be needed to receive commands to help get the ship out of trouble. My antenna was the low-gain antenna. It was important that it work right. This antenna was really mine, all the way down my gut. I dreamt it up, designed it, built it, tested it, and delivered it to the spacecraft assembly crew. For two years I lived with this baby every day, and I mean every day. Ten hours a day, seven days a week. For the last year of the development I had pieces of that antenna in my hand every day. I knew what it looked like, what it felt like, and what it smelled like. I knew this thing with its clothes off. It was MINE. I was its Cognizant Engineer, Bob Thomas was its midwife, and Bill Layman was its mother. job. I worked with the mission designers to develop the requirements for it. Then I designed it. There were countless hours of cut-and-try with Bob Thomas on the Mesa Antenna Range. We didn't use computers for this kind of design. My timeshare segment of the mainframe computer was 64 kilobits. Good for some stuff, but not for solving megapoint vector equations. Nowadays we would design it on a PC. The design led to a shining, hollow tube of aluminum, about four inches across and six feet long. The metal skin had to be very thin and lightweight, yet the shaft had to be almost perfectly round. Building that sucker was a real challenge, but we had a talented mechanical engineer. Bill Layman solved all the problems. By the time that antenna was ready to be delivered, there were three or four of us that had a very personal interest in its welfare. After I went through the clean-room rain dance, I ignored the Test Team and walked straight to the spacecraft and my antenna. At the top of the antenna there were sixteen thin aluminum wires about three inches long sticking straight out from the tube. These were needed to make the radio-waves go in exactly the right directions. One of them was bent down about 45 degrees. No catastrophe, but worrisome. If it broke off in space, would the radio waves go way off course? Not likely, but it would have some effect. If it broke off in space would it interfere with some other part of the ship? Maybe. Nobody knew for certain. We had a spare antenna. But putting a spare onto a spaceship that was halfway through testing is a big deal. A lot of stuff has to be unscrewed to get at things, and there is plenty of opportunity to damage more equipment. It's a risk. I got a magnifying glass and looked closely at the base of the bent wire. I didn't see any cracks. I reached out and bent it back where it belonged then looked again. Still no cracks. "Fly it," I said, and went home to bed. Slept like a log. They flew it. It worked. Mariner IV passed by Mars in July of 1965. It sent back 21 television pictures of the planet, using the high-gain antenna. During flight, the spacecraft did have problems with its attitude stabilization. The low-gain antenna was used to correct the problems. From Hal Leininger Tue Aug 1 07:51:12 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 07:51:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Hal Leininger Subject: DAP I haven't had to buy parts for my '66 109 for about three years and the time has come. The last stuff came from DAP while still run by Al and I had no complaint whatsoever. The parts I bought from him were considerably cheaper than any other supplier. I assume that Al sold out and is no longer involved and that DAP prices have risen to be compareable with ABP.Last I heard ABP was no longer in buisness in Lewiston. Hoping someone will bring me up to date. I just got a full color catalog from LR Super market in the mail yesterday and though I haven't done more than flip the pages I am highly impressed. Anyone have a list of FAX numbers for UK suppliers? Anyone gotten into their Fairey O.D.? Mine was sucking oil in and now it's reversed flow. I tried venting the transfer case but I was probably to late and seal damage had already occurred. Wondering what potential damage to look for and the procedure for teardown. From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 01 95 Aug EDT 1911 Date: 01 Aug 95 11:11:47 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Trailer Lights Leland... Probably your D90 was doing that all along and you didn't notice.. At least, it should have been. My D90 has been doing that since day One but it took me a week to notice. Iit is normal. At first, though, I must admit to having thought it was Sir Lucas visiting my new toy... When I have my trailer hooked up, it flashes all the time, BTW. FYI, I do not have the LR trailer harness installed, BTW. I installed a harness myself. Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From Russell U Wilson Tue Aug 1 11:24:29 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 11:24:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Head rebuild?? I just got a call from the machine shop that is doing the work on the pig's engine. 30 over for the cylinders and no damage to the head or valves. I had planned on redoing the head with the stellite valves, new cam bearings etc. The machine shop said that everthing "on top looks fine" should I go ahead and do the top end while the thing is in pieces or just leave well enough alone?? How much of a power increase can you expect from changing to the stellite valves?? thanks for any words of wisdom.. the pig shall fly again! Russ From "Guzelis.Pete" 1 1995 Aug U 1908 Date: 1 Aug 1995 08:54:24 U From: "Guzelis.Pete" Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Anyone out there know of a source (USA or elsewhere) that makes an air-bag compatible front receiver for a 94 Disco. I sure don't want to pay the L/R dealer package price of $2K (US) for a Warn winch, bull guard, mount system. I called Warn Winch directly and they told me that they do not make receivers for the Disco. Any input will be appreciated. I intend to mount the winch via the Warn Multi-Mount cradle so I can use the winch on either end of the vehicle or, when "on-road" remove competely. _______________________________________________________________________________ From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 29 15:39:25 1986 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 86 15:39:25 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Hubs The best bet would seem to be to dismantle the offending hub and see if you can work out what has gone wrong. In order to do this remove the screw. This will reveal a plastic loop compressed into the countersink for the screw. Usin a small screwdriver or similar hook the loop out. You should then see that the loop has a "tail" to it which disapears into the hub. This is the strip which holds the outer part of the hub on. Remove this strip by pulling at the loop. It is about 5"long. It will help if you push the hub gently towards the wheel against the pressure of the springs. Once the strip has been removed, the hub should simply pull off. Reassembly, as they say in the manuals, is the reverse of assembly... Describing the internal parts of the hub is beyond my powers of English. However, you will note that there is a sort of wire cage with three prongs. Each of these prongs must locate in one of the three recesses in the part of the hub still on the vehicle. That this has been wrongly assembled is a possible cause of your problem. I suggest that you also look for any obvious damage. Hope this helps. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Aug 01 09:38:33 1995 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 09:38:33 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: def110 sale. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: def110 sale. Russel writes: > As seen in yesterday's NY Times: > Defender 110, 38K miles, $36,500, > or was it the other way around.... > something like that, anyway. Seen in the out of town addition. > At least it wasn't outrageous. Sure it wasn't Defender $110,000? ;-) Dave (the prankster) B. #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "Sean McInerney" 1 1995 Aug -0500 1911 Date: 1 Aug 1995 11:19:29 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: LR Minibus? LR Minibus? Unfortunately, I did not speak to the individual, whom I am about to speak of, long enough to relate all the technical details, but the bare fact should be of interest.....Whilst driving my topless '63 88" one Saturday morning (a couple weeks ago), a 110 V8 County (not a conversion) appeared before me (not a hallucination). Luckily, we managed to stop next to each other at the next light to chat. The owner told me that it was a 1986 110 and had been legally imported as a minibus. My wheels have been turning ever since! Oh, by the way, this was in good ole' New Haven, CT.....There are, at least, four other SIIA 88" in the area....pretty surprising to me...maybe unremarkable to others. 110 V8 County...Hmmm.... Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88"- no top....no rain either 8*) "Friends call it 'The Beast'" From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Aug 01 09:57:56 1995 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 09:57:56 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Land Rover spirit - Spaceship story. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Land Rover spirit - Spaceship story. It's a shame they don't (can't) make space ships like Rovers, it may have gone like this; "Ring.. Ring" Hello... "Sam, we have a problem with the low gain antennae....." Sam: "Hell, yank one off one of the cars in the parking lot and slap it on! What on earth would you wake me up at.....you @$-!!" On the other hand... if "uncle Joe" had anything to do with it, we may STILL have men on the moon... as well as a nice memorial for them here on Earth. ;-) Cheers! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Tue Aug 1 14:02:27 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 14:02:27 -0400 From: rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Subject: RE: Discovery at 2000 miles At 05:11 PM 7/31/95 PDT, a-robw@microsoft.com wrote: >I'm still waiting to get that > 20 MPG in my Disco. I only have 500+ miles >on it, though and the best I've seen so far is 15.8 (freeway @ 65-70 w/ auto >trans and A/C). I believe the 20 MPG he reported was in manual (especially if you keep it between 2500-3000 rpm, or so I've heard). In the automatic you'll be hard pressed to break 16 and if you have a short commute, you'll be down around 12. >Also I noticed that the back door didn't seem to be installed/aligned quite >right. Mine had this as well...I tightened up the door latch some and it helped, but I had the dealer fix it for good at first service. -- RP --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Randy Parker, NoteSystems, Brookline, MA (rparker@tiac.net) WWW Page: http://www.tiac.net/users/rparker/ "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearsome master." -- George Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Aug 01 12:18:00 1995 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 12:18:00 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Springs for a LHD 88 petrol. Very Confusing!! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Springs for a LHD 88 petrol. Very Confusing!! I need springs for a '71 series IIa 88. It's sagging to the right side. (Passenger side in the US.) I am also going to be adding a winch to the front, (Warn 8274) approx. 150 pounds? (70Kg) Can I, should I, use either 1-tonne springs from a 109? Or Diesel springs from a 88? Or Diesel springs from a 109? Or diesel springs from a 1-tonne 109? Or.... Also, the LR springs are different for left/right, what is the reason for this? (Maybe why my LR leans??) Should or can I use the same spring for left and right, and if so, which one should I use, the LR left? Or the LR right? If I just switched my existing springs from right to left/left to right, will it then lean to the left, of sit horizontally on a crowned road? I will be using the 1-tonne spring shackles for a slight lift. Anyone know how much arch the springs should have? And how to measure it? What are the best springs to use??? Please help!!! Thanks, Cheers, Chow, g'day mate...... #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Tue Jul 29 15:11:04 1986 Date: Tue, 29 Jul 86 15:11:04 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Distributors - 4cyl This mail is prompted by the availability of Lucas Distributors from Paddock's (Matlock, UK +44 (0)1629 584499) at a good price (41.07). They are of a later pattern than that currently fitted to my '68 IIA, having a push on type vacuum advance tube. Does anybody know if I am likely to have problems with fitting such a later distributor? It should of course fit physically; my concerns centre around advance curves etc. My impression from looking through the parts catalogues for the IIA and III are that changes in the distributor fitted have resulted from advancements (if that is the word) in Lucas design. Any thoughts or experiences? Amusing(ish) anecdote. My wife (I am currently stuck at home with shingles) took the IIA to the local Land Rover dealer today for the track to be checked. Their computerised booking-in system needed to know what model, but wouldn't accept IIA. It had to be either a II or III! ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From hiner@roadrunner.com (Greg Hiner) Tue Aug 1 17:49:09 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 17:49:09 -0600 From: hiner@roadrunner.com (Greg Hiner) Subject: Land Rover Parts in the USA I don't know how valid this rumour is and pardon if it has already been mentioned as I haven't been able to pay much attention to this list lately but supposedly Land Rover North America is moving to become the sole provider of genuine parts in at least the USA. So that would put Rovers North and British Pacific out of the game at least as authorized dealers of parts. The parts business for America would be shifted to ten or so Land Rover Centers across the country. Up go the prices. I haven't talked to BP or RN about this myself but a friend of mind has. Let me know if anybody else gets any information on this or let me know if this is just old news. Best- Greg From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Aug 01 20:49:45 1995 Date: Tue, 01 Aug 1995 20:49:45 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Head rebuild?? Russell asks... > fine" should I go ahead and do the top end while the thing is in pieces > or just leave well enough alone?? How much of a power increase can you > expect from changing to the stellite valves?? / Probably no power increase.. However, the stellite valves should hold up better with unleaded petrol. Cheers Mike From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Tue Aug 1 19:11 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 19:11 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Exhaust manifold Today, I found the exhaust leak in my petrol SIII four banger. The manifold has a crack in it. It is in the rearmost branch, nearest the firewall. The PO had told me he replaced it for the same reason in 1977. I am going to ask him where it cracked before, but further investigation seems to indicate that it is prone to cracking back there. The front branch gets plenty of cooling from the fan, but the rear branch has a heat shield around it. I can feel the difference in the radiated heat with my hand after shutting the engine off. Anyway, this seems like a good time to upgrade to a header. I read somewhere that a less restrictive muffler will do more for performance than a header. Will a header crack? Is it louder? James Howard 1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim" Flagstaff, Arizona, USA From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Aug 2 12:02:38 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 12:02:38 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: LR Minibus? Sean asks: > LR Minibus? I dont know the significance of this question, but my stage 1 wagon (5dr) and most of the 110 5drs I've seen here in OZ are described on their compliance plates as "Landrover Omnibus". Most of these are the 10 seaters, but very few actually have the sideways facing "load-bay" seats. My hunch is that this was a ploy to avoid some of the more severe pollution control requirements. (my 12/82 LR must meet the same standards as a 6/76 passenger car.....) Does this have import implications to the US??? -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au (Tiffany Downing) Wed Aug 2 12:25:02 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 12:25:02 +0930 From: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au (Tiffany Downing) Subject: RE: Down Under Clubs Mathew Holding said: >Tiffany seems to have stirred up a can of worms by suggesting that you all need >to join an Australian club. I never said that you NEEDED to join a club I was just letting people know that: a. we exist b. we are a Land Rover Only Club (for those that care); and c. we welcome anyone that is interested in Land Rovers and wants to keep track of what is happening in Australia. Sorry if I upset anybody (it certainly seems that way with all the abuse mail I've been getting!!!) :-( As for the person that suggested to me that we have a club membership fee rather than individuals (for overseas) we think that's great and would be interested in swapping magazines with any other clubs out there (not in Australia as we already swap magazines with them). Just send me your snail-mail addresses and we'll take it from there. Again, apologies to anyone that thinks I was trying the "Hard Sell" but we were just excited to be able to discuss Land Rovers on a global sense rather than just locally! TTFN :-) Tiffany Downing ******************************************** Co-ordinator, International Student Programs TAFE South Australia, AUSTRALIA Phone: (61 8) 226 3202 Fax: (61 8) 226 3655 E-Mail: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au ******************************************** From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Tue Aug 1 20:04:04 1995 Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 20:04:04 PDT From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: D110 I have a line on a NAS Defender 110 which will be available shortly (not mine!). It will be consigned at LRMW. Mileage is VG at under 21K. Please do not crowd the digest flaming me for this *solicitation* It is simply provided as a heads up to the digest due to the considerable interest these vehicles generate when they reappear on the market. Anyone requiring information can email me. cheerz Jim - now completely mad... and loving it! `67 2A 88 5.0L Hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L Hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C Diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 `95 D90 From Dixon Kenner Wed Aug 2 01:08:58 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 01:08:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: newbie stupid questions On Tue, 1 Aug 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > > 4. if SII were imported upto '68, why do I see '70 gas models here in US. > 109"s came in through '67; 88"s until '73-74. 109's into Canada later than this... From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Wed Aug 2 01:28:47 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 01:28:47 -0400 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Selling 109" Repost and Clarification. All: In regards to my recent post about selling Hugo.....the 109".. : In the original posting I listed the North Carolina DMV Title number as the VIN. This was pointed out as incorrect by several of you.....thanks. I immediately reposted a correction with the correct VIN Number, which is 26408075C. ( Hugo is a ' 66 five door 109, very straight, road ready, and ......sorry, but, it's even clean.) If any of you have inquired and have not heard from me, please email me again. I inadvertantly dumped a session of incoming email, the contents of which were never known. Sorry for the confusion. Oh,....one more thing.....is it ok or politically incorrect..... newsgroup wise...... for an individual to advertise his Land Rover and/or parts for sale through the newsgroup? What are the thoughts on this? Cordially: Rick Crider Monroe NC (704)289-6303 ' 66 SIIA 109" 'Hugo' ' 73 SIFrom Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Wed Jul 30 08:21:43 1986 Date: Wed, 30 Jul 86 08:21:43 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Ready to alternate You could try an 18ACR. This gives an output of 45 amps as opposed to the 16 ACR's 35. It is a straight fit on the standard alternator mountings and, in the UK at least, costs little more than the 16 ACR. If necessary I can supply the part numbers etc. for the brackets needed to convert from dynamo to alternator. Did it myself last year. A 65 amp alternator is available as an option for the 90/110. Does anybody now the make, spec etc for this? ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From Richard Jones Wed Aug 2 10:47:30 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:47:30 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: LR ICON WWW site needed Mark Talbot writes: > Here's the ICON, if you get it on a WWW can you mail the dihgest as I'm > getting swamped with requests !!!! I UUENCODED it. Here are the URL's: http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/download.html or ftp://ftp.apricot.co.uk/pub/misc/landr.ico __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk From Easton Trevor Wed Aug 02 07:47:00 1995 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 95 07:47:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Gaiters Re Gaiters retaining water and other crud When I had my gaiters off the other day during a leak investigation (?) I found that everything inside was clean except for a small lump of oily debris lying in the very bottom of the gaiter, The balls were clean smooth and unmarked with a coating of oil all over. In fact the passenger side seal had been leaking slightly and the gaiter on that side had acted as the oil seal with about a quarter cup of oil inside it. Trevor Easton 62 SWB SW From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 2 08:59:19 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 08:59:19 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE Down Under Clubs I for one am interested in what happens "down under". Australia, and Australian Landrovers in particular, hold a fascination for me. I certainly didn't interpret Tiffany's mail as implying that anyone should join the club; I read it as an anouncement of the club's existence and willingness to take overseas members. I am still considering joining.... I would encourage anybody to post similar information in the future. Anyone know of a Kiwi L/R club? ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris) Wed Aug 2 08:14:40 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 08:14:40 EDT From: dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris) Subject: Hat's Off to LRODG Thank-you to all. So far all the problems I've had with my disco, windshield wipers stuck, rear door loose, signal light not working in hot weather, I've heard here first so had some idea what to do. Great Stuff!! Has anybody ever approached Landrover about having a representative on the net? They could sure learn a lot and maybe sometimes provide us with someuseful information. Tony Morris From helmuth.guss@balu.kfunigraz.ac.at (Helmuth Guss) Wed Aug 02 14:31:23 1995 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 1995 14:31:23 +0100 From: helmuth.guss@balu.kfunigraz.ac.at (Helmuth Guss) Subject: SIIA FC half-shaft Owning a SIIA FC 6cyl I would like to knew the differencs between the front half shafts of a SIIA/SIII bonet control LR and the FC ones. From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 2 08:40:32 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 08:40:32 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Springs for a LHD 88 petrol. Very Confusing!! The front spring on the driver's side of the vehicle is set higher than that on the passenger side. I understand that this is to take into account the weight of the driver. Note the use of the terms "driver" and "passenger"; this is from the L/R parts book and implies that the springs are swapped around for L/H drive. As far as fitting different springs is concerned there were several sets specified for an 88" petrol. The standard set is: Front driver's 241283 Front passenger's 242863 Rear 243124 Heavy duty rear springs: driver 241285 passenger 265989 Front "when hydraulic winch fitted" driver 265627 passenger 264563 Those specified for the hydraulic winch fitment are the same as the standard diesel fitting. I don't know what the weight of one of these winches is, but the fitting of "diesel" front springs when fitting a winch seems to be generally reccomended. Hope this helps. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From Tom Stevenson Wed Aug 2 15:22:12 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 15:22:12 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: 1-ton shackles Watch out when fitting extended shackles to the front springs; they affect the steering and increase the propshaft angle at the front by tilting the diff nose down. Reduced UJ life should be expected (as I know from bitter experience!) Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From "Tom Rowe" Wed Aug 2 09:39:45 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 09:39:45 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Galvanizing Renewal for LR Just getting around to some old mail. Regarding touch-up on galvanized trim. There are several zinc spray paints on the market. I've used one by SOS Products that worked well. It acts very much in the way of galvanizing. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Sanna@aol.com Wed Aug 2 10:53:16 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:53:16 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Exhaust manifold >Today, I found the exhaust leak in my petrol SIII four banger. The manifold has a crack in it. >I read somewhere that a less restrictive muffler will do more for performance than a header. Will a header crack? Is it louder? Over the 25 years that I have been driving Lulubelle, I have cracked 3 exhaust manifolds, one time resulting in a burned exhaust valve, and that was just in the first 10 years of driving. About 1980 I replaced the cast metal manifold with a header from A-B. Since that time I have had no problems at all. The headers are not any louder, and supposedly they increase power, but I put them on so long ago that I don't remember a difference. The one shortcoming they are rumored to have is a lack of chimney heat to the carb, resulting in carb icing under certain conditions, however I haven't had a problem with this either. In short, it solved the problem. Tony - From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Aug 02 08:11:29 1995 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 1995 08:11:29 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Gaiters Easton Trevor writes: >In fact the passenger side seal >had been leaking slightly and the gaiter on that side had acted as the oil >seal with about a quarter cup of oil inside it. How is that? The gaiter should not be retaining any liquid if installed with the seam facing down. -Michael Carradine cs@crl.com From edwardsj@ohsu.EDU (James Edwards) Wed Aug 2 08:37:30 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 08:37:30 PDT From: edwardsj@ohsu.EDU (James Edwards) Subject: 5 spd or automatic Discovery ?? It looks like I'll be able to buy a Discovery soon. Does any one have any thoughts on the relative merits of buying a 5 speed manual versus the automatic? Reliability, mileage, or other? Thanks Jim Edwards Former 1970 IIa 88, hopefully soon to be Disco owner jed@teleport.com From DANCSC@aol.com Wed Aug 2 11:42:14 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 11:42:14 -0400 From: DANCSC@aol.com Subject: Spencer says Michael is Pompous? In a message dated 95-07-29 04:34:52 EDT, you write: >well *Dad*, if you dont like the chattering (which incidentally, is why this >mailing list is in existance) you can unsubscribe, until then you can chatter >away *offline* with your good friend Al. >I will also add: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >spencer >------------------------------ Spence, I don't know you, and mean no offense, but this sounds a bit pompous as well. let's try to live and let live. and by the way... "Land Rover" have a sunny day! dan of rosa From Tony_Bonanno@nps.gov (Tony Bonanno) Wed Aug 2 10:51:51 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:51:51 -0400 From: Tony_Bonanno@nps.gov (Tony Bonanno) Subject: Springs for Series IIA David Brown asks about springs for his 71 IIA and questions why they are different for the driver and passenger sides. I don't know if all series Land Rovers had "handed" springs, but I know that most of the series IIA did. I believe the series III did also. The factory literature that I have read simply states that the driver's side springs have more camber to "compensate for the additional weight of the driver", etc. I will have to admit that this is one of the more obtuse examples of british engineering that I have ever encountered. Since the gas tank on most vehicles in this country are on the "passenger" side, and with the variables associated with vehicle loading, the bottom line is that almost every Land Rover in the US seems to be "leaning" to the right. I have always found this to be somewhat annoying with my IIA SWB. The good news is that there is absolutely no reason not to use the same spring on both sides. Rover's North actually told me recently that they have stopped selling "handed" pairs. They recommend the same spring part number for both sides (# 517588 for the rear which is the same part number as the "drivers" side rear). I tried it and it works! I put two #517588 springs on the back of my IIA SWB and what a difference. The vehicle sits LEVEL and of course the ride and handling and drive train slop are all much improved - the new bushings helped a lot too! I have not had a chance (or the money yet) to replace the front springs/bushings. However, when I do, I will use the same (driver's side) spring for both sides. Tony Bonanno (IIA SWB - a rolling restoration since new) Santa Fe, NM of vehicle loading Especially when you consider that the USA models are left hand drive and the cr and the gas tank (if you don't have the optional tank) is on the passenger side, so it is sort of a moot point. the most obtuse of the british logic From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Wed Aug 2 13:12:43 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 13:12:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: Exhaust manifold Does anyone have information on the type of headers they are running, and if it does solve the manifold cracking problem...I just replaced mine with a new one, just before the thread started. thnx in advance steve _________________________________ |_______|_______|_______|_______| "Moose" | ____________ | | \\ '73 III 88" | / | \ | | \\ ________ | | | | | | \\ | | | \______|_____/ |______|_______\\___|________|__ |___________________|_______________|---------------\ | [] [] [] | | 0 |) | |--] | | _| / OOOOO | | OOOOO |__ |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____| 0 OO o 0 o OO OO o 0 o OO OO o OO "Tread Lightly" OO o OO OOOOO OOOOO Florida Rover Canvas Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (813) 980-1013 (813) 253-0905 (Work) From wharton@mail.scra.org Wed Aug 02 13:57:52 1995 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 95 13:57:52 EST From: wharton@mail.scra.org Subject: Mike's for sale Mike Crider earlier asked if it was 'politically correct' to advertise LR's and LR parts for sale on the net... As hard as it gets trying to find these vehicles, and as many people who are mesmerized by the intrinsic beauty of LR's when they see one (and ask if there are others for sale), I think this is the perfect forum for passing on for-sale information. Certainly a non-LRO reading these emails would appreciate the opportunity of owning such a beast... rather than just reading information on how to fix one. It would also give us all a chance to keep up with current prices so none of us will go off and buy one of those $110K D90's... Regards to all - I thought I was the only one who was obsessed by these things. Skip Wharton wharton@scra.org From the Holy City of Charleston, SC USA From grea@net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Wed Aug 2 11:08:37 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 11:08:37 PDT From: grea@net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: OD question When I bought my LR it had an OD installed already. Not knowing anything about OD's (or LRs for that matter) I didn't ask what type OD it was. Can someone help me identify what type it is? It's oil filling hole has a brass plug with a dipstick on it to check the level. I doesnt appear to have any markings on the casing. Also, I have been filling it with 90wt. Am I in trouble? G. From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Wed Aug 2 14:00:17 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 14:00:17 EDT From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: importing loopholes (?) Well, maybe ... On a related subject: Do you know of any Stage LR converted (factory OR otherwise) to alcohol or LPG ? :) What was the last year (before 93) that the 109" (110?) were imported to Canada? Any diesels ? Thanks you for your response. Jan From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Aug 02 11:57:01 1995 Date: Wed, 02 Aug 95 11:57:01 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: THANK YOU!!! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: THANK YOU!!! Thanks for the "springing" the information! Very "handy" information! Just one more question, if you know... Can I use the 1-tonne springs? And if so, what advantages/disadvantages are there with using them? Thanks, #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From DANCSC@aol.com Wed Aug 2 16:05:07 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 16:05:07 -0400 From: DANCSC@aol.com Subject: Series Motor Needed. California Hello, Dan of Rosa here, and I am currently on the Phone with Matt of Napa (a non-netted-Rover-owner) he owns a 60 series II and needs a motor. Preferably a IIa 2.25 version, but most imprtantly it must run, and strong would be nice. would be willing to pay up to 1500 bucks for the right motor, MAYBE trade a koenig winch as well.... his phone number in Napa is 707.254.8930, or since a usually ignore the LRO list, you could contact me directly at mendo_recce@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us and in the subject area, please note as matt of napa's motor, or something like that. also, I may be reached via phone at 1800.862.7520 monday thru friday 8 to 5. Thanks in advance, Dan of Rosa From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Wed Aug 2 13:10 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 13:10 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: exhaust manifold again Thanks to all of you who wrote back about my manifold problem. I called RN, who said they have seen a lot of cracked manifolds when the carb has been replaced, because some of them tend to run lean at full throttle (ie, on the interstate). I pulled the appropriate spark plug, and sure enough, it looked like it had been running lean. Now, I think this is a wimpy excuse. An exhaust manifold outta be able to take all sorts of abuse. Anyway, I looked at the price and the amount of work to switch to a header. Since I bought an overdrive the day before I found this problem, I am going to opt for the cheap and easy solution. This is, buy another origianl manifold, put the Zenith carb back on (since I have it), and worry about this later if I have to. James Howard jhoward@argus.lowell.edu 1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim" Flagstaff, Arizona, USA From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Aug 2 17:21:45 1995 Date: Wed, 2 Aug 95 17:21:45 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: D110 (fwd) J.Papas dons his asbestos suit and sez: > I have a line on a NAS Defender 110 which will be available shortly (not mine!). It will be consigned at LRMW. Mileage is VG at under 21K. Please do not crowd the digest flaming me for this *solicitation* It is simply provided as a heads up to the digest due to the considerable interest these vehicles generate when they reappear on the market. Anyone requiring information can email me. > I have a line on a NAS Defender 110 which will be available shortly (not And the asking price is.........????????? Let's have it, rd/nigel From "Seymour, Gareth" Thu Aug 03 09:23:00 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 09:23:00 PDT From: "Seymour, Gareth" Subject: Gorc homepage The new, still underconstruction, Glamorgan off road club home page is located at... http://theo.sihe.ac.uk/~bird/Home.html Any visitors welcome Gareth From Tom Stevenson Thu Aug 3 09:53:09 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 09:53:09 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Re: 1-ton shackles > Tom, > Couldn't you avoid this by welding on front spring brackets of the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > But, it seems it would be crazy to put 1-ton springs on an 88 unless you > were always hauling around a ton or more of stone. I would think that extended front hangers would solve the problem, but it seems like a lot of effort! I put extended shackles on the rear springs with LWB dual rate springs, which have a lower (initial) rate than SWB rear springs in an attempt (fairly successful) to improve the ride. The longer shackles were used to restore the clearance between the axle and the bump stops. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From helmuth.guss@balu.kfunigraz.ac.at (Helmuth Guss) Thu Aug 03 13:30:09 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 13:30:09 +0100 From: helmuth.guss@balu.kfunigraz.ac.at (Helmuth Guss) Subject: help on winches ? Does anybody knew what the pulling rate in ...lb/kg means ? Is there a standardized methode to test the pulling rate of a winch? How much can a winch of ...lb rate lift vertical? I find this declarations a little bit confusing. thank everybody for help Helmuth Guss Hauptstr.18 8435 Wagna Austria From ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Thu Aug 3 8:40:00 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 8:40:00 EDT From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Subject: RE: Heavy Duty Springs Dave Brown asks bout 1 ton(ne) springs on a Series... I have a friend in Florida who put a set of "heavy duty' springs on his IIA. I think he got them from Atlantic British. These had 13 vice 11 leaves, I think. I assume these are the same as from a 1 ton(ne) (or is it a 109?). Anyway, when he put the truck on the ground, he couldn't hook up his shocks because of the much-increased camber. Eventually the springs did settle a bit, and the shocks did connect, but just barely. He also related that the truck rode like the axle was connected directly to the frame. Dave, mail me privately if you'd like to get in touch with this guy. FWIW, I think that big tires, lifts, fancy wide wheels, etc. look a bit out of place on a LR. I'd prefer to leave that stuff to the drivers of Jap mini trucks. My opinion, no charge. Scott Fugate 1970 IIA 88 1989 RR [Buffer line for the real-time folks] From "Tom Rowe" Thu Aug 3 08:00:50 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 08:00:50 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: help on winches ? Helmuth Guss asks: > Does anybody knew what the pulling rate in ...lb/kg means ? > Is there a standardized methode to test the pulling rate of a winch? > How much can a winch of ...lb rate lift vertical? Snip The pulling rate (if you mean as in an 8000# winch) is what the winch will lift with a single line pull. At least usually. Some cheaper winches give the double line pull to make them seem stronger than they are. Doulbling the line with a snatch block (pulley) will double the pull and halve the speed. On a hard flat surface, assuming you had your vehicle anchored, you could pull more than an 8000# rolling load with an 8000# winch in single line mode. In a mud hole you may only be able to pull a 4000# load (or less). It all depends on how badly you're mired. The worse you are stuck, the less actual weight you can pull. The "rate" is actually measured in feet/minute, or meters/minute I guess, the capacity is the pound or kilogram rating. There are machines to measure the capacity, but they are specialized. Some offroad mags have used them to measure winch stall loads (the load it takes to stop the winch) and cable snapping loads. A good winch should stall (or snap a shear pin) before a cable in good repair will snap. A snapping cable is as effective as a broadsword in removing appendages. A good habit to get into is to place a sand bag or some like object on the cable when you're winching, it will slow the cable a little if it snaps. Also piaint the last 5-10 feet near the hook some bright color so that when you are running the cable back on you're alerted that the end is near so you don't wrap your arm around the drum. This might sound dumb, but I've seen people's reflexes cause them to hang on and try to stop the cable when the end suddenly appears. You can't. Hope this helps. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 03 95 Aug EDT 1909 Date: 03 Aug 95 09:35:44 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: advertising ettiquette for this list? >> Mike Sez: I don't think most people object to an individual posting an item for sale. I could not agree more. Though I certainly don't want this list to turn into a classified, I must admit to having benefitted tremendously by purchasing several items from list members. Perhaps we can put together a quick Advertising etiquette guideline to put in the FAQ? Here is what I might propose as a start: -- Please, no dealers or 'high volume' ad contributers. -- Please limit your ads to items of interest to the Land Rover community. -- Please include: description, location, price, etc ... be complete and *honest* in your description (if we can't be honest to each other here, who can we trust?) -- Please (responders) send notes back via e-mail, not posted to the list -- Please do not post "every day" until an item is sold. If it does not get snapped up with one posting, wait a week or so before trying again. If it does not sell a second time, try Hemmings, LRO, etc. These are just some thoughts from a person who welcomes ads from my fellow LR enthusiasts... perhaps there are some other ideas or suggestions that we can add to it before the Major decides whether something like this is ok for the FAQ. Of course, if the sentiment on the list is to make ads verboten... I'll live with that, too. Just my $0.02 Cheers, R. P.Reid From Roger Sinasohn Thu Aug 3 06:55:36 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 06:55:36 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Land Rover Model Cars Check out Lloyd Alison's web page on the subject. My link on my web page isn't working, but you can get from my page to the RoverWeb and thence to Lloyd's. My page is at http://www.crl.com/~sinasoh/ Hope this helps! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 03 95 Aug EDT 1910 Date: 03 Aug 95 10:58:22 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Advertising on the List? >> Mike Sez: I don't think most people object to an individual posting an item for sale. I could not agree more. Though I certainly don't want this list to turn into a classified, I must admit to having benefitted tremendously by purchasing several items from list members. Perhaps we can put together a quick Advertising etiquette guideline to put in the FAQ? Here is what I might propose as a start: - -- Please, no dealers or 'high volume' ad contributers. - -- Please limit your ads to items of interest to the Land Rover community. - -- Please include: description, location, price, etc ... be complete and *honest* in your description (if we can't be honest to each other here, who can we trust?) - -- Please (responders) send notes back via e-mail, not posted to the list - -- Please do not post "every day" until an item is sold. If it does not get snapped up with one posting, wait a week or so before trying again. If it does not sell a second time, try Hemmings, LRO, etc. These are just some thoughts from a person who welcomes ads from my fellow LR enthusiasts... perhaps there are some other ideas or suggestions that we can add to it before the Major decides whether something like this is ok for the FAQ. Of course, if the sentiment on the list is to make ads verboten... I'll live with that, too. Just my $0.02 Cheers, R. P.Reid From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Aug 03 07:48:18 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 07:48:18 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Springs response... conclusions. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Springs response... conclusions. Thanks to all who responded. Several have responded, and I find that the 1-ton(ne) springs OR the front springs from a 109 would be too heavy, and the ride and articulation would be unsatisfactory. I came to the same conclusion as your responses, that with the weight of the winch, the diesel springs for the 88 would be best. Also, what is recommended is using the same springs for left and right side. I think I'll order the "drivers" side springs, for that added support. Thanks again for the responses, I LOVE this list!! Some day, I'll be able to make significant contributions with advice. Dave (Taylor like, except I'm $pending $$$) Brown. P.S. This may be something for the FAQ? Anyone want to "spring" into action? #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Thu Aug 3 11:36:51 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 11:36:51 EDT From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Subject: American Source for Flaring Tool? Gang, Anybody out there have any technical information on the type of flare used on Series IIA - III metal brake lines? Are these the same flares standard in U.S.? In the May or June LRO magazine, it shows a flaring tool being use in a restoration, and cautions that there are male flares and female flares. I noticed that the cylinders have a seat that mates with a female flare, for instance. Does anybody know what the correct seating angle is? I need to get a tool for modifying a set of copper brake pipes I have in hand. The pipes were ordered from John Craddock for my 1970 IIA, specifying a dual line system. Evidently, in England dual line systems did not appear until late in the Series III run, when the change over to metrics had begun. On the pipe set I received, the connections to the brake cylinders are the correct imperial size, but the balance of the connections are metric. They are distinguished by different colors of dust covers on the connectors. I'm sorry to say that this distinction was lost on me until I had experienced a great deal of consternation from connections that wouldn't fit up. I doubt that Craddock would take the set back back now, as a couple of the lines are bent to hell and the threads on one end are stripped. Anyway, what I'd like to do is cut all the offending metric connectors off and replace with good old 3/8 - 24 connectors. Problem is I don't have a flaring tool or a source for the brass connections. Can anybody help? Scott Fugate 1970 IIA 1989 RR Extra line From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Thu Aug 3 08:57 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 08:57 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: [TROWE@AE.AGECON.WISC.EDU: Re: Exhaust manifold] James Howard wrote: > Today, I found the exhaust leak in my petrol SIII four banger. The > manifold has a crack in it. I have found the SIII manifolds prone to cracking for three reasons; that's the way they are; using the late type gaskets (two hole metal exhaust only as opposed to the older fiber that span both manifolds) and not using a torque wrench on the fasteners. Snip > this seems like a good time to upgrade to a header. I have one so here goes: > I read somewhere that a less restrictive muffler will do more for performance than a header. Maybe, but you're not going to get alot out of a 2.25 anyway >Will a header crack? Mine hasn't (Clifford Reasearch, the only one I know of in the US for LR, sold by ABP, cheaper elsewhere I'm sure), *but*, they will rust through and they give off a *lot* of heat. You should get it coated to prevent rusting and reduce the heat output some. Jet Hot Coating charges $100-150 to aluminize it (I think that's the process) and they give a life time warranty. Good thing too, as I had mine done and it's starting to pit. I also wraped mine in header wrap to keep it from frying my starter and alternator. You can't connect to your intake so, depending on where you live, you may have problem's with carb icing in the winter, although I haven't in VT or WI (I'm using the Weber 4bbl with a different manifold anyway). You have to cut your front pipe and weld it to a cone shaped adapter, provided. You loose a little groound clearence under the exhaust, but it's minimal. >Is it louder? A header isn't, a less restrictive muffler probably would be. The moral of all this? I would stick to a LR manifold, use the old style gasket, torque the bolts to spec (you'll have to use a crowfoot wrench on some and a u-joint on others). And pray. Use NeverSeeze on both sides of the gaskets. Why do I have one? I bought it way back when. When I thought to get better performance. I use it now because of my intake manifold. I never had luck with blocking off the upper opening on the stock manifold, I tried brazeing, welding & bolting. A bolted-on plate worked the best, but the clearence isn't enough to put on a very thick one so it didn't last. I gave up and went back to the header. Good luck. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Aug 03 09:04:29 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 09:04:29 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: advertising ettiquette? R. Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> writes: >Here is what I might propose as a start: -- Please, no dealers or 'high volume' ad contributers. -- Please limit your ads to items of interest to the Land Rover community. -- Please include: description, location, price, etc ... be complete and *honest* in your description (if we can't be honest to each other here, who can we trust?) -- Please (responders) send notes back via e-mail, not posted to the list -- Please do not post "every day" until an item is sold. If it does not get snapped up with one posting, wait a week or so before trying again. If it does not sell a second time, try Hemmings, LRO, etc. Especially since this is an international list, indicate the city and country where the item is located, and ALWAYS indicate price and currency. Without this information, there will just be a lot of frustrating email. Michael Carradine, Architect Carradine Studios, PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 95 Aug EDT 1909 Date: 3 Aug 95 9:23:31 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Holley 2-barrel on a 2.25? In my quest for Rover parts I have been trying to locate a used Pinto Weber carburetor. These are as scarce as hen's teeth... or so it seems. Has anyone ever attempted to use the alternate Holley 2-barrel that was fitted to the same Pinto engine that took the Weber? These seem to be more in supply than the other unit. Just a thought....I may try this one myself if I can get a sed one cheaply enough. -ajr From a-robw@microsoft.com Thu Aug 03 07:39:00 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 07:39:00 PDT From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: help on winches ? Right after I bought a Ramsey winch, I called the manufacturer to get this very information. They informed me that they have a test stand that measures the pull against a dynomometer under ideal (i.e. laboratory) conditions. Also, the published ratings are ALWAYs on the 1st layer of cable on the drum. In the manual that came with the winch, they also showed the ratings for each subsequent layer of cable as it spooled . Some of the lower capacity electric winch companies will list how they can pull an XXX lb ROLLING LOAD because the dead-lift capacity is so pathetic. If you've ever pushed your car, you can say you're capable of pushing a 3000 lb rolling load! In "real-life" however, I'd be impressed if your electric winch could do 80% of its advertised capability. On a vehicle, unless you've really wired it to power the winch (e.g. with dual MONSTER batteries, hi-output alternator, LARGE (and short) cables to the winch for both + and - leads , etc.) you'll be losing so much through cable resistence (which adds up under a 400amp load), battery voltage drop (because the alternator can't put out 400 amps) to ever see the rated pull. I've talked to some "serious" off-road types who DID wire their truck for the winch (as described above) and measured only 6000 lbs pull using a cable tensiometer from their 8000 lb. winch. I suspect that's one reason the manufacturer's suggest you get a winch capable of 1.5 times your vehicles gross weight. I think the best option is to have lots of cable and a snatch block for those really stuck trucks. ---------- From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Aug 3 11:02:29 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:02:29 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Whither side-specific springs I need a little advice: I am about to replace the rear springs on my 1973 Series III 88" hardtop Land-Rover (they're, like, flat, man). I have always wondered about the specific purpose of the side specific springs on Land-Rovers. I understand that the difference is in how arched they are but am not sure about that. Now a Land-Rover is presumably heavier on the right side, due to the fact that the drivetrain runs along that side and the fuel tank is also along that side. So is the stronger (more arched) spring the right one as one would suppose considering this weight difference? Or is is the left one, considering that that would be the low side of the road (due to crowning of the roads) in the British Isles and other countries where driving is on the left? In the first case, the need for the side-specific springs would be greater in the US due to the double whammy of the right-side weight bias' coincidence with the low side of the road's being also on the right. In the latter case, it would seem that the springs should be reversed or else both sides should have the same (stronger-side) springs. Over the years, I've seen Land-Rovers that sag to one side or the other. It seems to me that most (but not all) sagged to the right. That would probably suggest that the more strongly arched spring (if that is really the difference) should be on the right. I remember seeing a message about this the other day and thought I had saved it but now can't find it. So I'll appreciate any sage advice offered by those of you who've figured this out conclusively(?). TIA, P.S. To those on the main LRO list I appologize if this has been amply discussed in the last few days as I have not had time to read the digest for about a week due to the Paradise Lost trip (awesome!!). Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA Several old Land-Rovers and other semi-collectible vehicles (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Aug 3 11:30:44 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:30:44 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: Whither side-specific springs Sure enough, I had no more than posted my question about the side-specific springs than I found a very good discussion in yesterdays digest by Tony Bonanno (I appologize again for not reading all the digests first). Tony concludes that using the driver's side spring on both sides is best (and apparently RN agrees). It sounds like it does make the Land-Rover sit level--at first. But I'm not convinced that this solution will be correct over the life of the springs. The driver's weight is minor (even my 230 lbs.) compared with the fuel tank, diffs, driveshafts, tranfer case, and battery all offset to the right. Again, what do you think? Thanks some more, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA Several old Land-Rovers and other semi-collectible vehicles (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Aug 3 11:33:53 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 11:33:53 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Holley 2-barrel on a 2.25? In message <199508031703.MAA09524@butler.uk.stratus.com> Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus writes: > In my quest for Rover parts I have been trying to locate a used > Pinto Weber carburetor. These are as scarce as hen's teeth... > or so it seems. ; > Has anyone ever attempted to use the alternate Holley 2-barrel that ; was fitted to the same Pinto engine that took the Weber? These seem to be > more in supply than the other unit. ; Most people I have talked to have not been overly happy going to a two barrel on a 2.25L engine. With a Pinto engine, you would need to play around with all the fuel & air jetting. You would be better off getting a carb specifically set up for the Land Rover engine. Also one that is not probably already worn out. You would never get a worn out carb to work properly. I would recommend a refurbished Zenith or Solex. If you have a right hand drive car, I still think a pair of 3/4 inch SUs on a TR3 intake manifold would do the trick very nicely, increasing power and petrol milage. The TR3 intake manifold lines up with the Land Rover's intake ports. The TR3's ex-tractor engine (with 87mm pistons) is about the same size as the LR engine, puts out more power and has much better milage. Hmm thats a thought, I wonder if anyone makes a belhousing adaptor to fit the TR2 through 4A engine to a Land Rover bellhousing. The TR3's engine is high torque and it is very rugged like a tractor engine should be. Who needs a Rover modified Buick engine when you could add a Fergason tractor engine? TeriAnn From "Soren Vels Christensen" Thu Aug 3 19:54:57 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:54:57 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: RE: Advertising on the List? Hi Why not a seperate mailing list working like the lro-digest, -except it could be published weekly or fortnightly depending on the volume of classified ads. Or even better: forsale@host.domain and wanted@host.domain. This would ofcourse mean extra work (and perhaps hardware) for either Bill or anyone else ready, willing and able to undertake this sort of task. A split digest could even reside on different machines, being maintained by different people. Just a thought. It might be worth to mention that i have a private VT320 account by modem. Otherwise i wouldn't suggest things like these ;-) cheers sv/aurens [waste] From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Aug 03 12:28:52 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 12:28:52 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: help on winches ? a-robw@microsoft.com wrote: [why 8000# stall winches stall before 8000# deleted] > I suspect that's one reason the manufacturer's suggest you get a winch > capable of 1.5 times your vehicles gross weight. The rule of thumb is 2.5 times the vehicle gross weight. This is partially because of electric contraints that were menioned. The other reason is that when you have a 3000lb vehicle well and truely bogged down, the force needed to extract the vehicle will be much more than the vehicle weight. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 [chaff for Majordomo] From srbrown@sair020.energylan.sandia.gov Thu Aug 3 13:39:59 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:39:59 -0600 From: srbrown@sair020.energylan.sandia.gov Subject: Ivory Soap in your toolbox?? Here's a little curiosity, that would be fun to discuss. A friend of mine recently told my wife that since I drive a 32+ year old Landrover that I should carry a bar of Ivory soap in my toolbox. Here's why: Recently on a long camping trip in the northern New Mexico desert (in a beat up chevy van) my friend and family were driving in a construction zone and somehow managed to puncture their fuel tank with a piece of gravel or other debris. Gasoline started pouring out on the road like crazy. They pulled over (miles from nowhere) wondering what to do. A local friendly rancher or somebody stopped, evaluated the problem and quickly came up with a solution. He asked for a bar of Ivory soap from their camping gear, broke off a piece, got it wet and soggy with canteen water and plugged up the hole in the tank. Much to everyone's amazement it held, stopped the leak, and allowed them to drive 50 miles or so to a town with a more permanant solution. It seems that I've heard something about this somewhere before. Does it work? What is the physics/chemistry of this? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ /==============\ | `63 | IIa | Stephen Brown |______|_______| Geomechanics Department, MS-0751 /___/^^^^^^\___\9 Sandia National Laboratories |oo|(@)##(@)|oo| Albuquerque, New Mexico 87185 | | [####] | | ======%%%%====== email: srbrown@sandia.gov {*}={&&}====={*} {*} {*} RockNet: http://sair019.energylan.sandia.gov:70 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From a-robw@microsoft.com Thu Aug 03 10:28:00 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 10:28:00 PDT From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: Discovery Gift pack goodies I was rummaging through the gift pack that came with my new Disco and noticed that the "imported" Salmon Pate that came with my English Rover is all the way from Marysville, WA (a small town about 30 miles north of my house in Seattle, Washington). Talk about taking the long way! (no ants on it, though. :-) -- Bob Watson 95 Disco (750 miles and counting) From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 19:56:48 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 19:56:48 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Antipodean Auxiliary Tanks On page 22 of the June issue of LRO there are two pictures of Brian Price's (Australia) '75 SIII 88". This clearly shows two fuel tank fillers: one in the normal right hand position and one in the same position on the left hand. According to the text this was fitted from new. All the auxiliary tanks that I have seen have been filled from under the left hand (passenger in UK) seat, as per the military spec and series Is. The auxiliary tanks listed in the L/R optional parts catalogue are the same. Does anyone know if the arrangement on Brian's Rover was generally available in Australia, or is it a one off? ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 19:51:52 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 19:51:52 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Whither side-specific springs As I indicated recently in a post concerning heavy duty springs, the L/R parts book refers to "drivers" and "passengers" side springs. This implies that the springs are fitted according to whether the vehicle is left or right hand drive. This tends to discount the theory that the springs are fitted to compensate for the weight of the transmission etc. being offset to the right. Interestingly, some of the early prototypes had a central driving position. I wonder how their springs were set? ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Aug 3 17:37:10 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 95 17:37:10 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Ivory Soap in your toolbox?? Ah, the ol' Ivory soap trick: > It seems that I've heard something about this somewhere before. Was a Down-Under trick, wasn't it? > Does it work? What is the physics/chemistry of this? Goopy-smeggy things fill holes. Goopy-smeggy things that don't dissolve in gasoline won't dissolve in gasoline. rd/nigel (who once fixed a leaking canoe with tree sap and a wad of crunched up vegitation 'cause soap wouldn't have worked) From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Aug 3 15:41:29 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:41:29 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: help on winches ? > The other reason > is that when you have a 3000lb vehicle well and truely bogged down, the force > needed to extract the vehicle will be much more than the vehicle weight. > -Benjamin Smith The local classic example is the time that Michael Green, of West Coast British, went to Reno and came back with a helicopter to lift his Rover from the mud of the Black Rock "Desert." R, bg From Magnet Thu Aug 3 19:05:41 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 19:05:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Magnet Subject: LR on the Net Tony Morris wonders whether anyone officially connected with Land Rover subscribes to this mailing list. I can't answer that, but about a month ago I had an opportunity to chat with Alan Manessy, Managing Director of Land Rover Canada. In the course of a very interesting conversation, I mentioned that he ought to have one of his marketing or customer support people on this list. Alan seemed receptive to the idea, and I gave him the info on how to subscribe -- don't know whether any action was taken, though. In all my dealings with LRC I've found them to be a very helpful bunch, and enthusiastic about the cars they sell. WRT to the discontinuing of the Defender in Canada, two factors were cited: a new lot of emission regulations (actually, self-diagnostics, if I remember correctly) for 1996, and primarily the fact that they simply do not sell enough of them in Canada to warrant keeping them in stock. There was some mention of possibly bringing them in again for 1997. Cheers, -- Bill '59 Rover 90 ------ '87 Rover 825i -------- '93 Range Rover LWB * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Bill Daddis -- Aurora, Ontario, Canada -- magnet@io.org * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Aug 03 17:49:04 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 1995 17:49:04 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: LR on the Net >Tony Morris wonders whether anyone officially connected with Land Rover >subscribes to this mailing list. Probably. I'm wondering when Land Rover will have a WWW page, after all, Mercedes is already on at http://www.daimler-benz.com/ (not much, but a start...nice graphics too!) Michael Carradine, Architect Carradine Studios, PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Lloyd Allison Fri Aug 4 11:07:53 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:07:53 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: manifolds, springs, clubs Cracking exhaust manifolds: from the mists of time I seem to recall something funny about not tightening the fixing bolts over tight, to allow the thing to expand / contract relative to the head ??? else you crack the manifold - does this ring any bells or is it an hallucination? Are there not different types of gasket arrangement and using the wrong one for your manifold also leads to cracking. springs - I put LWB StnWgn springs on a SWB rear once. They had relatively soft LWB springs with a great big helper leaf, sort of progressive rate. The result was a bit skitish when unladen but just right with a couple of jerry cans and other junk on board. Club lists: do any of the wwweb-ers (not webbers) think it worthwhile doing something "consistent" with online lists of L-R clubs? I have some misc' information in http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Clubs/index.html and it seems to me that other web pages have similar odd bits of information. This is bad from a computing point of view: overlapping, inconsistent views of the same underlying data. Since club details and esp' addresses may change, the lists must all be out of date to some extent. It would make much more sense to have one comprehensive list, as up to date as possible. It could then be linked to, or mirrored where ever. Lloyd From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Aug 4 11:02:39 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:02:39 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Antipodean Auxiliary Tanks > On page 22 of the June issue of LRO there are two pictures of Brian Price's > (Australia) '75 SIII 88". This clearly shows two fuel tank fillers: one in > the normal right hand position and one in the same position on the left > hand. According to the text this was fitted from new. Well I talked to Brian this morning, and will see him on sunday's trip so I suppose we can check :-) (Brian is the newly elected president of the LRRSA) The milage reported in the article is out by a factor of 10, so the text may be a bit sus..... > Does anyone know if the arrangement on Brian's Rover was generally available > in Australia, or is it a one off? Well an awful lot of rovers have this arrangement (in some places fuel stops on main highways are further apart than the range with the std 10 gal tank) I *assume* that it is a factory fit, but will check. Certainly aftermarket tanks are/were available for both LHS and RHS fitment. In my IIa 109 I fitted a S/H RHS 15 gal tank in the LHS and just extended the filler pipe. Maybe Lloyd or someone else can answer more precisely cheers -- Daryl From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Aug 4 11:11:42 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:11:42 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Ivory Soap in your toolbox?? > construction zone and somehow managed to puncture their fuel tank: Fixed with soap and.... > everyone's amazement it held, stopped the leak, and allowed them to > drive 50 miles or so to a town with a more permanant solution. Uumm strange I always thought of soap as a permanent solution...... The IIa had a soap fixed tank for ... no its simply too embarassing.. But I will admit to leaving the soap fix on my bikes fuel tank in place for 3 years... Down under the go is "Velvet" laundry soap, comes in one big block the size of 3 normal bars, for those Land-rover sized jobs :-) cheers -- Daryl From kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Tue Aug 3 21:29:31 1993 Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1993 21:29:31 -0500 From: kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: Re: RR Handling >I'm not asking for much, I'd just like my Rangie to stop handling like >the Exxon Valdez. Can't comment on jacked up spings or Overfinch handling conversion (Also, what kind of RR do you have?)... There was a thread on loose steering not too long ago (prompted by me) My complaints were that the RR would shift around when on the highway. I changed the bushings, and that help a lot as well. The RR stopped changing lanes on its own. Then I noticed the steering was a bit sloppy. The car responded, but it seemed like a lot of play was needed to activate the car. As it turned out the ball joints were worn. I suggest you check the drop arm, drag link, and track link ball joints. You check this by having someone you trust turn the steering wheel while you lie down in front of the beast checking the ball joints. If you don't know what the ball joints are, they connect that bar in front of the front axle to the steering box and the passenger front wheel AND they connect the passenger side wheel to the bar behind the front axle. Now the steering is tight, but when the car goes over bumpy highway at a reasonable speed, the steering wheel feels like it's jumping. (Hard to explain) I don't think I'm loosing control, but I'm too scared to turn the wheel when that happens. I attribute this to the steering dampener. That thing costs $85 and I don't think I need it. Anyone have suggestions? 1. Am I right, is it that steering dampener? 2. Will it make that much difference if I change it? 3. Know where I can get it cheaper? kgb '89 RR My RR Graphic: ==- o o Hey, what do you think? P.S. On the thread of naming Rovers, I can't decide between: A) Buket o' bolts B) Rattle 'n' Hum C) Oil faithful D) The 4x4 Pinto E) Lucas my car slowly dies. (I Know, that's a bad one) ********************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Rate Page Works!!!! ********************************************************* From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Aug 4 12:56:07 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 12:56:07 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: RR Jumpy steering wheel > Now the steering is tight, but when the car goes over bumpy highway at a > reasonable speed, the steering wheel feels like it's jumping. (Hard to > explain) I don't think I'm loosing control, but I'm too scared to turn the > wheel when that happens. I attribute this to the steering dampener. That > thing costs $85 and I don't think I need it. Anyone have suggestions? I'll get onto one of my favourite hobby horses again. If the steering feels like maybe the balance is out but "sharper" and induced by bumps, Check the swivel pin preload. A common problem with Land rovers and especially Range rovers is insufficient pre-load, Results in vehicles being prone to "head-shaking" (a bikers term, uumm wheel "shakes" but is self limiting) when you hit bumps or undulations. Check this first before shelling out for a new damper. cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Aug 03 23:08:19 1995 Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 23:08:19 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: info Does any one on the net have any direct ties to NASA please, I am doing some research and need some help Thank you all Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Thu Aug 3 22:00:01 1995 Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 22:00:01 -0700 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: 4-speed / 5-speed / LROI info! / Midaltantic Rovers 1. I finally found out what was wrong with my gearbox. After pulling it, I could still not figure it out. Everything seemed to work fine on my living-space floor. I attached an electric motor to the input in order to do some dynamic testing. Lo and behold, it refused to go into 3rd or 4th! However, I was still stumped as to the cause. Finally, I pulled it apart, and found that one of the 3-4 syncro spring clips was cracked... enough to keep it from operating (especially when spinning) but when I poked and prodded them insitu they appeared to be fine/intact. It seems that the centripetal force of spinning made the crack separate, thereby making the 3-4 syncro not function. So I ordered the new springs (78 cents each)... and a clutch, and a pressure plate, and a rear main seal, &c (while I am in there I might as well...) 2. No progress on 5-speed conversions. I'll be putting the 4-speed back in, but I am still determined to get the story on 5-speeds for series with original engines. Although several sources (web, individual email, &c.) mentioned David McNamara (the oz diff dude) as a source of the Nissan 5-speed... he actually is just 10 miles from Mark's 4wd, and referred me there. He is about to ship some axleFrom i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk Fri Aug 4 10:07:32 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 10:07:32 BST From: i.mitchell@ic.ac.uk Subject: Brake Judder no more Yippee! I've fixed my brake judder problem. Put on new rear shoes and cylinders (and the obligatory few pipes) and it seems to have solved the problem. So it's Bonnie Scotland, here we come. That's assuming that my leaky clutch and intermittently dodgy alternator hold out. I'm off tomorrow, so see you in three weeks. Ian From Tom Stevenson Fri Aug 4 10:25:28 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:25:28 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: 5 speed box Jory Didn't Santana make a 5 speed box for their Series III's? I think they also had a SIII with disc brakes on the front axle. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Mark Perry Fri Aug 4 04:46:57 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 04:46:57 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Perry Subject: soap and springs Soap: I have a copy of The Off-Roaders Handbook, by J.T. Crow and Spencer Murray, published by HP Books (Great book , but not a single LR in it!) On Page 159, the fuel-tank leak soap method is described, and explained as They claim one tank seam repair with soap held for years. I'll take my chances for now with the repair shop, though (Don't ask, it's a long story) 2. Differently-abled springs: In the course of some chassis work (Rear X-member, etc., etc., see above ) I replaced my sagging springs with new all along. These are after-market mfr., cambered for passenger and driver sides. Before replacement, the LR was markedly listing to port, that is, the driver's side. Brooklands book on LR road tests for SII-IIA has one 1961 Motor Trader article of service data, which lists the spring specs: Nearside and Offside lengths are the same for 88 and 109, front 36 1/2", rear 48 " Fronts for 88s have 9 leaves, rear 11; fronts for 109 have 11 leaves, rear 10. Width for all is the same at 2 1/2 ". Now for the good part: For the 88, front nearside free camber is 5 5/16, offside is 6 even; rear nearside is 6 3/4, offside 7.42. For the 109, front n/s is 5 1/8, o/s is 5 5/8, rear n/s is 8.2, o/s 9 1/4. I take nearside to mean driver's, offside, passenger's, but maybe I've got it the wrong way round as these specs show less not more camber on driver side, and I'd thought the drivers side got more camber to compensate for more weight typically being on that side. Then there's that RHD/fuel tank thing, too. Go figure. BTW, the springs I got were clearly marked for each side - I sure hope the guy at the shop noticed, and could read English. Nice guy, does good work, but Tagalog is his mother tongue, spoken English basic. Of course, some LROs on this thread claim it would make no difference which side they end up on. I'll find out tomorrow. Or does nearside/ offside mean in relation to the curb, er, kerb? Then it would make more sense - NO, it wouldn't. Aaaaargh. Cheers Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From "Tom Rowe" Fri Aug 4 07:33:29 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 07:33:29 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: American Source for Flaring Tool? Scott Fugate writes: > Gang, > Anybody out there have any technical information on the type of flare used on [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > instance. Does anybody know what the correct seating angle is? > I need to get a tool for modifying a set of copper brake pipes I have in hand. First DO NOT USE COPPER FOR BRAKES. (Or diesel fuel lines either, as an aside) It is not made to withstand the pressures in brake systems. Copper *coated* steel is ok. They have two flares that I'm aware of. A standard double flare which can be done with a double flaring tool available from most auto parts stores, about $20. The other is a bubble flare, which takes a tool that was quite expensive about ten years ago when I priced it, on the order of over $100. Some *good* import car repair shops that work on British cars have them. The double flare is used where the line connects to a flex line. The bubble is used at the wheel cyl. Good import auto parts stores carry the lines with the correct fittings in a variety of lengths and also the fittings themselves. Two places that I know of in the states that have the bubble flaring tool are a place here in Madison, and Abingdon Spares (an MG parts house) in Walpole, NH. I don't know the exact seat angle. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 04 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 04 Aug 95 08:38:01 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Nasa contact Robin: I worked at Johnson Space Center for a while and still have contact at the various NASA PAO's. What are you looking for? R. Pierce Reid From Alan Richer 4 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 4 Aug 95 8:05:13 EDT From: Alan Richer Subject: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray rig for paint Well, I started spraying exterior bits of my Rover last night and got a VERY pleasant surprise. First off, PPG acrylic enamels are nice stuff to work with. Simple, effective and not TOO expensive - unlike the urethanes one place tried to talk me into at $50 a quart...ick. For PPG, give them the Ditzler numbers and they're happy - point of info, they had much trouble trying to convert the DuPont numbers, as did Sherwin-Williams. Secondly, for anyone looking for a simple, fairly inexpensive spray rig that does a good job, consider the Wagner FineCoat HVLP sprayer. I have one that I purchased for use with lacquers and varnishes in furniture finishing and fine cabinet work, but I had my doubts about its ability to handle automotive finishes. Boy, was I wrong. This thing took on the enamel just like I was spraying polyurethane varnish, leaving no lap marks or runs unless I got REAL stupid. It also, for the novice, only has one adjustment, for material volume. Damark in the US has these for $119., factory-reconditioned. That's where I got mine, and I'm thrilled with it. You can't go wrong at that price, especially considering the price of paint and a paint job... When I can produce a clean paint job in a VERY dirty garage, I'm sold. -Alan P.S.: I have no financial interest, blah, blah, blah...for the lawyer types.. -ajr P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting would meet with interest? -ajr From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Fri Aug 4 09:29:48 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 09:29:48 EDT From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: newbie still looking for 109, 88 found... Hello there. I am still looking for a 109 SW or 2-door. Will see 1 or 2 this weekend. BUT... I found 3(!) 88's in one place, 65,66 and 69, reportedly in good shape, 2 of the 3 reportedly running, all to be sold for a best offer this weekend. What do you think they maybe worth (if in "daily driver" condition), both in terms of $ and as trading chips for a 109" :) (I'd consider the $ as the intermediate form of 88->109 morphing, anyway). Thanks for your reply. Jan jib@big.att.com PS. Do you know of any conversions in UK or Oz to alcohol or LPG? Just asking ... From Sanna@aol.com Fri Aug 4 11:12:01 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:12:01 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: RR Handling The whale-like handling of my '89 RR (Annabelle) has always been a mystery to me. When I bought it (2 years ago) the handling was rather scary. It was difficult to steer, wandering on its own all over the highway. It seemed to track in any abnormality in the pavement, requiring a lot of work on long trips. I had the steering box adjusted, replaced the steering shock, had the tires aligned, I replaced all the steering bushings, all to no avail. Then, after lunching a front tire on a rock, I put two new original spec Michelins up front and the problem went away. Then about a month ago the steering wheel started to pulsate on slow turns, which soon developed into a THWAP THWAP THWAP sound as I turned corners. This problem went away on its own (pretty spooky), but I ordered new tie rod ends and CV joints for the car anyway. My mechanic replaced the tie rod ends & aligned the wheels (pretty worn out, he said), but he told me that I didn't need the CV's. Now the steering is really tight, feels good, like new, but the truck has gotten squirrelly again, following its nose all over the highway. Go figger! Beats me. Tont - From Sanna@aol.com Fri Aug 4 11:14:55 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:14:55 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: RR Jumpy steering wheel >A common problem with Land rovers and especially Range rovers is insufficient pre-load, So what's "pre-load" and how do I do it? Tony - From "David McKain" Fri Aug 4 12:42:31 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 12:42:31 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Address Change Due to local changes my e-mail address has been changed from mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu to mckain@cemr.wvu.edu We are no longer the College of Engineering but the College of Engineering and Mineral Resources. The old address will work for a while but who knows how long. David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Aug 04 09:37:12 1995 Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 09:37:12 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Mid-America Rovers USA address Skip Wharton from the Holy City - Charleston, SC USA writes: > jory@mit wrote about Mike Hoskins at Mid-America Rover... > Any chance of getting the address & phone number of this company? I'd like to add it to the great list Michael Carradine put out last week. Here you go, Skip. I'm attaching the list again with Mid-America added. These sources and others are also in the Aluminum Workhorse, the quarterly 30 page magazine published by the Land Rover Owners' Association, North America (LROA/NA). Application and annual membership dues of $20 should be sent to LROA/NA, PO Box 1144, Paradise, CA 95967 USA. The AW is really great although they don't like to toot their horn very much (or is it a Lucas problem??). Oh, membership questions go to BobandSueB@aol.com -Michael Carradine cs@crl.com __________________________________________________________________ AB Atlantic British Ltd. Ph. 800-533-2210 Orders PO Box 110 Ph. 518-664-6169 Mechanicville, NY 12118 Fax 518-664-6641 ABC Atlantic British Parts of California* PO Box 620 Ph. 916-778-3937 Lewiston, CA 96052 Fax 916-778-3937 BP British Pacific Ltd. Ph. 800-554-4133 Orders 3317 Burton Avenue Ph. 818-841-8945 Burbank, CA 91504 Fax 818-841-3825 DAP D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc* Ph. 802-885-6660 86 Clinton Street Fax 802-885-6662 Springfield, VT 05156 MAR Mid-America Rovers Ph. 816-763-3797 10708 College Avenue Fax 816-763-3797 Kansas City, MO 64137 RN Rovers North, Inc Ph. 802-879-0032 Route 128 Fax 802-879-9152 Westford, VT 05494-9601 *Atantic British of California and D.A.P. Inc. are now affiliated, and have assimilated British Rovers formerly in Cavendish, VT. __________________________________________________________________ From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Aug 4 10:46:11 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 10:46:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: newbie still looking for 109, 88 found... >>>>> Jan Ben writes: > I am still looking for a 109 SW or 2-door. Will see 1 or 2 this weekend. > BUT... I found 3(!) 88's in one place, 65, 66 and 69, reportedly [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > both in terms of $ and as trading chips for a 109" :) > (I'd consider the $ as the intermediate form of 88->109 morphing, anyway). Where are they, and what're the conditions of the frames? Two big questions that lots of folks tend to overlook. With the semi-anonymous e-mail address we tend to have, and no location ID in the .sig block (if any) we are frequently left hanging on location questions. As for the frames, get under and look, with a hammer, flashlight and screw driver in hand. Don't forget to do compression checks. If the price is right for local conditions, go for it (if your SO is willing to put up with living in a used Rover lot- I'm working on mine). Pricing of vintage Land Rovers is just one of the many reasons to get to know your fellow LRO, wherever you are. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA Offer out on a 1958 '88 - Who Knows? From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Fri Aug 4 11:18:46 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 11:18:46 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: Whither side-specific springs Thanks to all who gave advice about the side-specific spring business. I'm now convinced to get Driver's side springs for both sides. Cheers, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA Several old Land-Rovers and other semi-collectible vehicles (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work From "John B. Friedman" Fri Aug 4 14:01:54 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 14:01:54 -0500 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Yakima roof rack installation on Discovery If there is any one--like me-- who has a sizable investment in Yakima rain gutter roof racks, or for whatever reason does not want to go to the Thule Long Legs roof rack handled by LR dealers, the following account may be of use. I had several sets of Yakima rain gutter racks and wanted to adapt the cross bars to the Discovery for carrying canoes and tandem bikes. A set of Quick and Easy cast aluminium racks I also had would not work as they turned too sharply and hit the glass at the rear of the roof. So I bought a set of what Yakima calls High Rise adaptors. These were 35.00. They are not really made for the Discovery though they easily could be if Yakima would recognize the car's existence. The kit consists of two long pieces of aluminium extrusion, two 4 1/2 inch bolts and some new rivets and pal nuts. The installation of these risers into existing towers lets you have your cross bars on about half of the car, back to the rise in the roof. If this is OK, for sail boards, skies and the like, stop reading here. On the other hand if you carry canoes, kyaks, lumber and other long things, you will want to be able to move the racks apart to use the full roof line. To do this you will need to make some spacers for the rear high rise kit. I used some blocks of grey PVC 7/8 inch thick, purchased at my local plastics shop. This stuff was 3.00 a lb and I got much more than I needed for 4.00. This PVC material epoxys, drills,sands and saws easily. Then 2 6 inch zinc phosphate coated bolts at 3.20 You will need a jig saw, a power sander and hand drill or drill press. I used two pieces of the 7/8 stock per tower( 1 and 3/4 inch spacer) as I wanted to be sure that I would be well above the roof line with the cross bar. I jig sawed out some squares of the plastic and drilled the hole for the 3/8 bolt in the centers of each block, then roughed the faces of the blocks up with coarse sand paper and epoxied the blocks together and to the old Yakima black plastic sheer block which holds the aluminum ring for the cross bar at the top of the tower. Be SURE you grease your bolt and thread when you screw eveything together to clamp it or you will have an immovable--and unuseable-- tower. Then I sanded-- on a small belt sander turned on its side-- the new spacer blocks to follow the contours of the extrusion and other Yakima parts and reassembled the whole thing. I found that the best position at the very rear of the car was with the tower right on the end of the rubber glass moulding, as the lip of the tower clamp would at other locations hit the glass and perhaps scratch it. The side clearance between towers and ostrich windows is very tight at the rear. This set up is only slightly higher than the front cross bar and the cross bars look pretty level with a long straightedge across them. The only problem I see is that Yakima canoe and boat gunnel clamps which go around the cross bar hang down below it enough so that at the center of the roof, the wing nut on the clamp cannot be perfectly tightened. A smaller handwheel type nut on the inboard gunnel clamp would solve this problem. I now have about 2 inches of of clearance under the rear bar and am ready to try a canoe on the cross bars. If you buy the new Yakima high rise rain gutter towers as a unit, you will need to get new rivets and pal nuts, I think, as well as new bolts, and take the assembly apart in order to add your spacer for the rear. One could try calling Yakima and asking to get a set of high rise spacers with one set of the extrusions longer than they now are by 1 3/4 inches, as well as two 6 inch bolts. This would be the neatest and most effective way to deal with the kit on a Discovery John Friedman From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Aug 4 14:45:45 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 14:45:45 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: RR Handling > Now the steering is really tight, feels good, like new, but the truck has > gotten squirrelly again, following its nose all over the highway. Go figger! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Beats me. > Tont Check the toe-in. Sounds like you have toe-out. R, bg From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Aug 04 18:23:37 1995 Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 18:23:37 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray Alan Richer sprays his Rover and asks... > P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting > would meet with interest? -ajr Not much good with this crowd... I think most use a brush!! :) Cheers Mike From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Aug 04 16:50:05 1995 Date: Fri, 04 Aug 1995 16:50:05 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray Alan Richer sprays his Rover and asks... >> P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting >> would meet with interest? -ajr Well, I for one am interested in spray-painting vehicles, and aluminum particularily. While you're at it review frame painting/coating, steel preping in general, and also galvanized metal refurbishment. Thanks in advance B) Michael Carradine, Architect Carradine Studios, PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Lloyd Allison Sat Aug 5 12:40:50 1995 Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 12:40:50 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: fuel tanks I fitted a ten gallon fuel tank on the LHS (to match the one on the RHS!); the standard filler, hose and tank all fitted - I fabricated a bracket for the front of the tank (rear end bolts onto an existing chassis member) and a little cover to protect the hose which goes through the rear body and bulkhead. I think I needed to cut the filler hose, insert a pipe with hose clamps to sort out the "handedness" (memory's going...). A Y-valve let you switch tanks. Removing the underseat toolbox and cutting the holes was the worst bit. I daresay there is/was a factory option for a similar arrangement. You could use the 15(?) gallon tank easily enough. Some cars here have 2x15 gallons plus the rear SW tank - owner fitted I believe. Lloyd From mcbinc@world.std.com (Monty C Brandenberg) Fri Aug 4 23:05:57 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:05:57 -0400 (EDT) From: mcbinc@world.std.com (Monty C Brandenberg) Subject: Re: Whither side-specific springs Another datum FWIW... When I bought my '69 88" it leaned somewhat to the left. Bought a set of springs from RN with left and right being identical and installed the left front spring only (finished half the intended work in twice the alloted time. Know that story?). It then leaned nicely to the right. Paid some poor schmuck to replace the other three some time later and it now leans to the left about like it did before. All shackles are free to move, too... monty From Dixon Kenner Fri Aug 4 23:37:24 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:37:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: American Source for Flaring Tool? On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: > DO NOT USE COPPER FOR BRAKES. > (Or diesel fuel lines either, as an aside) > It is not made to withstand the pressures in brake systems. Copper > *coated* steel is ok. Don't know what it is with Land Rovers, but the copper lines I have seen installed on LandRovers just come apart. Vibration seems to be a killer with them... From Dixon Kenner Fri Aug 4 23:50:26 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 1995 23:50:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Handy Rover hint: Cheap, good spray On Fri, 4 Aug 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > > P.P.S: Does anyone think that a general treatise on Rover spray-painting > > would meet with interest? -ajr > Not much good with this crowd... I think most use a brFrom Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 4 19:12:40 1995 Date: Fri, 4 Aug 95 19:12:40 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Springs for Series IIA Just to add further to the debate on springs I quote from the official L/R II/IIA workshop manual: "IMPORTANT The driver side and passenger side rear springs are not interchangeable, the free camber of the driver's side spring being greater to compensate for the extra weight (driver, etc) carried on that side of the vehicle." On a lighter note, in response to Tony Bonanno's jibe at British Engineering, has he considered that the problems faced by drivers in the US might be caused by their driving on the wrong side of the road? ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From FHYap@aol.com Sat Aug 5 14:22:39 1995 Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 14:22:39 -0400 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: bounced mail (treski) If Treski is still a subscriber, please e-mail me. I tried to send you a message but it bounced. From Hldixon@aol.com Sat Aug 5 17:30:46 1995 Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 17:30:46 -0400 From: Hldixon@aol.com Subject: Tampa area club A friend of mine just moved to the Tampa, Fla. area and is looking for a Rover club or some sort of connection. Does anyone know of anything in that area? TIA From uklrml@monoi.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 5 22:05:48 1995 Date: Sat, 5 Aug 1995 22:05:48 +0000 From: uklrml@monoi.demon.co.uk Subject: unsubscribe uk-lro unsubscribe uk-lro From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Fri Aug 5 17:11:28 1994 Date: Fri, 5 Aug 1994 17:11:28 -0700 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: dash electrical connectors Hello to all the LROs in the home country, Like all series vehicles, my IIa has a red and a black power out sockets in the dash for external electrical appliances. I have one genuine Lucas plug that fits the outlet; I would like at least one more. Here in the states, the regular banana plug is far too large and a miniature banana plug is too small. I could change the dash over to american, but I'd like to keep it the way it is. IF the stock rover dash outlets are a standard size AND IF the double male plugs are available at the nearest electronics shop, then I would like to correspond with someone about potential swaps. Of course, if a shop address and fax number could be emailed to me, I might be able to use a credit card and purchase a few for shipping to the states. If anyone across the pond can help, I'd appreciate it. TIA, john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Aug 05 19:33:35 1995 Date: Sat, 05 Aug 1995 19:33:35 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: LR's in TV Spotted anther one. The TV show _The Highlander_, first season, episode 21, "Nowhere to Run", theFrom Roger Sinasohn Sun Aug 6 00:29:47 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 00:29:47 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Limericks... I once drank a glass full of 90 weight, prior to embarking on a blind date. It was worth the abuse to have an excuse if I decided not to stay out late. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I once got a terrible flat, from a cold-hearted neighbor who thought that she owned the space in front of her place which was where my rover was at. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "Soren Vels Christensen" Sun Aug 6 19:11:54 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 19:11:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Rovers on the Telly Hi Not long ago i watched one of those escapist programmes on German TV, showing places to go if you are rich. One of the places covered was Kenya. Lots of old Land Rovers all in different...conversions? Perhaps they sell some parts now and them to add to their income. The programme was sponsored by [Ta-Daaa] Land Rover. sv/aurens From "Soren Vels Christensen" Sun Aug 6 19:12:05 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 19:12:05 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: Whither side-specific springs Changed my rear springs recently. I followed the notice from the dealer ('s computer). The springs are made in England and i think the dealer just translated Left and Right to Venstre and Hoejre forgetting which side they drive on the island. I was under Aurens this morning to find out why. The gap between the arched leafs and the supporting one is a bit wider on the right spring than on the other. So here we go again. Should be easier to get them off this time though. Cheers sv/aurens From Kerry Jones ext 8002 Mon Aug 07 09:26:26 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 1995 09:26:26 +1200 From: Kerry Jones ext 8002 Subject: NZ Series I Club Last week Tony Chapman asks about clubs in NZ There is a Series I Club here in New Zealand the Address is c/o Neil Aston, 6 Harris Street, Pukekohe (pronounced poo-kay-kor-he) New Zealand. Kerry. From Russell Burns Sun Aug 6 15:11:43 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 95 15:11:43 PDT From: Russell Burns Subject: Rally On to the road with trailers in tow, Heading west to the sun as the evening sinks low The kids are a sleep (i Hope) our bellies are full Its off the the Rover rally out west I do go... So if you are there I will see you all soon. If trail was too rough, and schedule to weak, all is not lost, despair not at all There is a rally out east before the first frost.. Russ Burns 91 Range Rover 94 D-90 Off to the family pig farm..... From Hugh Grierson Mon Aug 07 10:40:14 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 1995 10:40:14 -1200 From: Hugh Grierson Subject: Copper brake lines Dixon Kenner wrote: > On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: > > DO NOT USE COPPER FOR BRAKES. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > have seen installed on LandRovers just come apart. Vibration > seems to be a killer with them... Hmmm, rear copper lines were fitted to mine a few years ago. No problems. In fact they are so good I just replaced all the remaining lines with copper ones. I'll report back in another 28 years as to how they survive... Regarding the flares - I took the old lines and the new wheel cylinders in to the brake shop and they made up new lines with the correct flares to match. It cost little enough for me to not bother buying the tools to o it myself. Hugh From Gary Mitchelson Sun Aug 06 19:26:17 1995 Date: Sun, 06 Aug 95 19:26:17 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Weather band on US Discovery -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Has anyone tried the WB on the Disco in the US. My wife has the identical radio in her BMW and it picks up about 4 NOAA stations just fine with the in glass ant. However, the WB on the Disco bearly picks up one station and the others just have intermod from FM broadcast stations. I live in a dense RF environment just north of Washington DC. Anyone have any experience with this? I have not had the dealer look at it yet. Also does anyone think there is not enogh volume from the radio? -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU From JDPUTNAM@aol.com Sun Aug 6 20:18:50 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 20:18:50 -0400 From: JDPUTNAM@aol.com Subject: Misc Questions Hello, I have two simple questions. One, after looking thru my Haines manual I have not been able to find the dwell setting for my 70 SIIa. Second, has anyone used a Weber 2 barrell with the stock oil bath air cleaner. I have found a bracket that will allow me to use the original cleaner and replace the Weber filter that the PO replaced it with. The Weber filter seems to severly restrict air flow to the carb even when it is clean ( and it is very hard to keep it clean ). Thank in advance John Putnam Beaverton, OR, USA From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Aug 06 19:03:00 1995 Date: Sun, 06 Aug 95 19:03:00 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News Sorry to have forgotten this, Heller Cliclac's are in their original boxes unopened and never assembled. Tootsietoys 88 is played with and in fai condition, all wheels present and correctn no damage except paint mising on all high surfaces / edges. Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Aug 06 18:24:58 1995 Date: Sun, 06 Aug 95 18:24:58 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: land rover toys >From now on I will be posting Land Rover toys information to the net rather than try to post to a list of people. I did try that but as you would know it I can run a 7018 out of position (weld overhead for you no n welder types) but this computer gizmo stuff is beyond me and my dino 286. I will keep the subject heading as Land Rover Toy News, so perhaps others can leave this heading alone so that when people are posting items. I will use this heading to post items of interest on toys of all three products. In addition I will post what I have surplus to my collection and that I am offering for sale. I find that from time to time I have certain items that I pick up a better quality example and so will move on the poorer quality example. Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Aug 06 18:38:50 1995 Date: Sun, 06 Aug 95 18:38:50 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News I have found some hard to find if not damned rare Land Rover toys. I have them myself but thought they might be of interest to others so they are offered for sale here. I say hard to find, at least in North America they are. Perhaps one of our Euro pals may be able to find them. They were made under the CLICLAC mark by HELLER from France. They are designed to be snapped together and come in coloured plastic with decals. The vehciles are about 1/32 scale , about the size of the Britains stuff. The vehciles that were available in the series were all series three 109's in various guises. These model kits ( my definition since they require assembly) are accurate for the most part and are a treat to put together and have in a collection of toys. As they are rare I want to make sure that the three that I am offering for sale go to one person so that they have three examples and therefore have the possibilty of collecting the other two ( that I know of ) that make up the rest of the series. I have the following available:- # 2014 Land Rover 109 with Zodiac on roof, s3 109 p/u # 2015 Land Rover 109 Police, s3 109 p/u with safari roof and decals etc # 2016 Land Rover 109 Assistance, s3 109 p/u with ambluance body and decals. All above vehciles come with etra accoutrments to put on the vehicles like stretchers and signs etc. I paid a fair buck to get these and want to recoup my costs. I think that anyone who has dealt with me so far has found me to be very fair on trades / sales etc. For all three Cliclac's as a package I would like $75 Cdn, shipping to your destination at your expense. I also picked up the larger of the two Tootsietoys Land Rovers. For those of you unfamiliar with it it a crude diecast toy in green. The body defies exact Land Rover type recognition as it is a figment of some toy makers imagination. From the front it is a series 3 and could be descrided loosely as an 88" station wagon. Cost including surface mail within North America $13 CDN. I will wait for replies and let the bidders know of their bid acceptance on Wedenesday night ( 10 Aug ). If you really oops Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Benjamin Allan Smith Sun Aug 06 17:52:12 1995 Date: Sun, 06 Aug 1995 17:52:12 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Misc Questions John Putman asked: > Second, has anyone > used a Weber 2 barrell with the stock oil bath air cleaner. I have found a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > restrict air flow to the carb even when it is clean ( and it is very hard to > keep it clean ). Jim Russel (jrussel@netcom.com) is currently trying to use the stock oil bath cleaner on his Webber 2 barrel. When I talked with him last weekend he said that he thought the oil bath filter restricted the airflow too much and was chokeing his engine a bit. Email Jim for more detailed information. Ben ---------------- Benjamin Smith Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Aug 6 21:38:00 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 21:38:00 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Brake lines Scott Fugate writes about flares for brake lines. Copper brake lines will not pass *any* state inspection in the US. Since the late 1960's, all brake lines have had to be steel *and* with the dual master cylinder. Dual masters made their appearance in late '69 IIa's (I think) exported to the US. Why Rover would retain the old single system for the home market is a mystery to me. Going off-line for a few days. Going to take the Rover down to Cape Hatteras and Ocracoke Island to see if I can catch some blues....see ya'll next weekend. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 06 95 Aug EDT 1922 Date: 06 Aug 95 22:02:20 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: Stowe All, Anyone know when the British invasion weekend is this year ??? Mark From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 06 95 Aug EDT 1922 Date: 06 Aug 95 22:02:19 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: Kodiak heater for sale All, I have a Kodiak heater for sale, blower, heater element, controls, $30 Mark From Dixon Kenner Sun Aug 6 22:16:06 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 22:16:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Copper brake lines On Mon, 7 Aug 1995, Hugh Grierson wrote: > Hmmm, rear copper lines were fitted to mine a few years ago. No > problems. In fact they are so good I just replaced all the > remaining lines with copper ones. I'll report back in another > 28 years as to how they survive... They took about five years to fail... Tell us when one goes... :-) From Dixon Kenner Sun Aug 6 22:21:58 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 22:21:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Stowe On 6 Aug 1995, Mark Talbot wrote: > Anyone know when the British invasion weekend is this year ??? Stowe? Sept 16 & 17th. Cost is $30 to get your vehicle on the show field. At a new location (they are putting Condos in the old location. If you want more info, have it all here... From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Mon Aug 7 14:31:56 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 14:31:56 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: Copper brake lines Dixon wrote: > On Mon, 7 Aug 1995, Hugh Grierson wrote: >> Hmmm, rear copper lines were fitted to mine a few years ago. No [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >> 28 years as to how they survive... > They took about five years to fail... Tell us when one goes... :-) The rear ones must be just about due then. Let's hope the infamous lro team.net curse doesn't strike me, or any other poor sods reading this... Hugh who thinks he should have fitted the dual circuit upgrade. From rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Sun Aug 6 22:40:57 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 22:40:57 -0400 From: rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Subject: Re: Weather band on US Discovery At 07:26 PM 8/6/95 -0500, Gary Mitchelson wrote: >Has anyone tried the WB on the Disco in the US. Seems to work fine most places in New England. >Also does anyone think there is not enogh volume from the radio? Also seems fine. Depending on how long you've had the Disco, you may or may not be aware that the radio volume is a function of both the volume knob on the radio _as well as_ the volume controls around the steering wheel -- make sure both are cranked up. Good luck! -- RP --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Randy Parker, NoteSystems, Brookline, MA (rparker@tiac.net) WWW Page: http://www.tiac.net/users/rparker/ "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearsome master." -- George Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Dixon Kenner Sun Aug 6 23:37:24 1995 Date: Sun, 6 Aug 1995 23:37:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: August LRO & single malt... :-) How many of you get LRO? You will like the article on page 128 in the August issue. Jim Allen decides to fill space and write about the NADA spec vehicles. While superficially correct, he does blow it on several points: He starts off by creating a little history. Well, worse he starts off by saying he is talking about North America and goes downhill from there to be exact. By the second paragraph he has renamed the North American Dollar Area (NADA) the American Dollar Area. I have always enjoyed being marginalised by some Americans, who seeing that big pink area above the USA undergo spontaneous brain death. American Dollar Area? Only in his vivid imagination. Even Land Rover in their recent foray into rewriting history have not gone that far yet... Well, by the third paragraph, he abandons all pretense of addressing the NADA market. We are dealing only with the USA. "After 1967, the US Land Rover line-up was standardised to one - the 88". Must be jealosy. The 109 was available into Canada until at least 1972. Otherwise, how do you explain that 109 Station Wagon, built in 1972 that sold in Port Elgin Ontario? There are of course other post 1967 109's running about in Canada. Of course, these were the days when the Canadian operation was not a wholy owned subsidiary of the American operation as it is now. Well, Volvo discovered that this doesn't work. Eventually Land Rover will rediscover the same basic fact that Canada and the USA are different markets. But back to basics. Before we forge on, we should note that Mr. Allen has completely missed the fact that Land-Rovers have been sold in Canada from 1949. Via Rootes as their representatives actually. It wasn't until later in the 1950's that they started to appear in the USA. In fact, the importance of the Canadian market can be found in the Canadian spec Land-Rovers. Yes, there is such a beast in both Series One (88" and 107 SW form) and Series Two guise. These sported one piece doors, lots of extra padding, dual heaters... Unfortunately, they were killed off, probably because Rover found it cheaper to make one vehicle for the North American market, though Canadian Land Rovers generally sported upgraded heaters and insulation over their American counterparts (Known as the Canadian Arctic kit to many American readers). But enough of history and back to paragraph three. Reading on we see that NADA, which transformed into ADA is now the North American Spec (NAS). Cute. NAS is what is currently used on the new vehicles arriving on our shores, not back in the 1960's. Four colours only? (Pastel Green, Marine Blue, Limestone, and Pppy Red) What happened to Bronze Green, White and Mid Grey? Oh, Series III vehicles only. Well, mention should be made of these colours as well as Sand and Dark Grey. Whilst Poppy Red may have been a NADA only colour, Red was available outside of North America. Like most Land-Rovers hazad lights may have become standard in 1967 in North America, they were an option in Canada long before. On Series Ones it was a pull out knob on the 88" instrument panel. For Canada, emissions requirements did not take effect until 1972 along with seatbelts. Hence you will not find emission stickers under the bonnet until the introduction of the Series III. The Series III emission stickers state that the vehicle meets Canadian emissions standards. Maybe American vehicles are covered with these sticlers, but the pretense of the article is that it is about North American spec vehicles. Another mistake. In 1968 the changeover in electrics was to negative earth, not positive earth. This is denoted in vehicles that sport a black instrument panel, unlike the earlier body coloured instrument panels. 15" wheels is a NADA feature, but only on the 88" Land Rovers. The 109's continued to arrive with 16" rims. Headlamps differed on NADA vehicles starting in 1968? Well, yes, but this was part of a changeover for more markets than just North America. If American lighting regs required this, why is the Jeep still running inboard lamps? NADA vehicles did have unique turn signal lamps, being four inch amber lenses. The stop lamps differed from the UK spec too. Take a look on the back of an Austin Healey. You will see the LUCAS 692 lamps with their chrome base on that vehicle too. For side marker lights, Canada required reflectors (yellow in the front, red on the rear side) in 1968, which changed to marker lamps the following year. (They are basically identical to lamps found on Austin Minis (sold until 1980 in Canada) MGB's etc. It's late, so enough for now... :-) Rgds, Dixon The single malt? Oh yeah, a nice Isle of Islay. Goes down well... :-) From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Mon Aug 7 13:50:28 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 13:50:28 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Land-rover hazard lights!!! Dixon, in correcting Jim Allens article in LRO writes: > Like most Land-Rovers hazad lights may have become standard in 1967 > in North America, they were an option in Canada long before. On > Series Ones it was a pull out knob on the 88" instrument panel. WOW!.... We really must be backward down here... My 12/82 stage one does NOT have hazard flashers....:-( (we are talking about the Turn Indicators flashing at all four corners arent we ?) -- Daryl From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Mon Aug 7 15:21:21 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 15:21:21 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: fuel tanks I checked with Brian, the LHS fuel tank on his '88 was a dealer fitted rover tank, with the filler/breather relocated to the LHS, he says that it looked like a genuine LR tank, but has since been replaced with a 15gal (75ish litre) aftermarket jobbie. The JRA 6x6 came from the factory with twin underseat 75 litre tanks. Lloyd writes: > Some cars here have 2x15 gallons plus the rear SW tank - owner fitted > I believe. Used to be able to buy these tanks "off the shelf" at aftermarket places, dont know about today.... BUT: That aint the half of it....on the 109 two doors add to this two 40-45 litre tanks in the space in front of the rear wheels. Once saw a stage 1 3.9D hardtop with this setup... add it up 68+75+75+45+45 = 308 Litres of diesel, damn near 3000 k range....... Note that none of these tanks intrude on the load bay.. For the real hard case distance freak, how about replacing the rear LHS tool locker with a tank based upon the Hydraulic winch reservoir.... The only one I've seen done like this held about 42 litres I think the owner said, except that it was used for water. -- Daryl (still saving for a RHS 75L underseat) Webb From Andrew Grafton Mon Aug 7 10:29:14 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 10:29:14 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Springs (again) Have just fitted new springs to both out LWB SIII 109" diesels. Fitted handed springs on the rear and 400 miles later the vehicles still sits almost level with a driver in (slightly up to the right in fact - by 1/2 inch!). The interesting thing is that due to an order mess-up, we got two driver's side front springs from the British Spring Co. and a drivers/passengers side front pair from (can't remember) another manufacturer. The British Spring Co's springs were more 'arced' prior to fitting - i.e. when placed beside the other new ones they formed a higher, shorter bridge shape. We fitted the handed pair to one vehicle and the two driver's side ones to the other. The vehicle with the handed pair sits 'correctly', level at the front and with the bottom of the front bumper 50cm (near as dammit) off the floor with michelin XCL 7.50 R 16's fitted. The other vehicle also sits level, but the bumper is 4cm higher off the floor (same tyres and vehicles - no extra gear fitted yet). The vehicles have been run around and had shackles loosened/tightened etc. so the springs aren't just brand new. I'm not complaining, 'cause the vehicle that sits high is having a winch and (don't ask) snowplough mounting fitted, along with a load of other gubbins. It just looks a bit odd next to the other one. The part numbers match up, etc etc. Can anyone explain the differences? Is it just down to a manufacturer's preferences, or is there a spring out there stiffer than a 109" diesel that has been numbered up wrong for by fitting two of one side to the front... As an aside, the difference in arc height of the driver's and passenger's fronts prior to fitting was about 3/8". The difference in arc height between the strange front springs and the tallest of the more usual ones was about 1.5". Difference in arc height between the HD rears (driver and passenger) was about 1". Bye for now and all the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk ' looking a bit . From bbourke@iol.ie (Brendan Bourke) Mon Aug 07 12:19:46 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 1995 12:19:46 +0100 From: bbourke@iol.ie (Brendan Bourke) Subject: Disc. gear box I have a rattle in the gearbox of my Disc. It is the new type gearbox/transfer box 1 3 5 |---L |--|--| Diff-| 2 4 R |---H If someone witha similag type gearbox cpold the following - Put transfer box in neutral - Move the main box through the gears, without using the clutch - Listen for any rattles/noise coming from the gearbox. My dealer says that this is normal - doesn't sound normal to me Also there is a noise when changing gear that seems to be coming from the clutch/thrust bearing - but I have just had a new clutch unit fitted - 500 miles Brendan From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Mon Aug 07 06:45:51 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 06:45:51 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Military rovers for sale A have just been handed a snapshot of a series 2a left hand drive military ambulance for sale in Alberta. if the information to hand is coorect there are two of them in Calgary in a used vehicles dealers yard. The one I am looking at looks very straight and un dattered body wise. Has XCL's all round and is in British Army colours. Beleive he is looking for about $5,500 CDN aprox. Can any of our western Canadian cousins throw any more light on these? rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From "Tom Rowe" Mon Aug 7 07:25:18 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:25:18 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: newbie still looking for 109, 88 found... Walter Swain writes: > >>>>> Jan Ben writes: > > I am still looking for a 109 SW or 2-door. Will see 1 or 2 this weekend. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > > both in terms of $ and as trading chips for a 109" :) > > (I'd consider the $ as the intermediate form of 88->109 morphing, anyway). Snip > frames, get under and look, with a hammer, flashlight and screw driver in > hand. Snip I've found that a weldor's chipping hammer works great. The pointed end is very good at finding weak spots. Although some people might object to you punching a hole through a rusty frame, I object to unwittingly buying a rusted out frame. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Aug 7 07:32:42 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:32:42 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Power Brake diaphram David Place writes: > Has anyone tried to replace the diaphram in the power brake unit? It > shows this being done in some auto books but I don't seem to see anything > in Haynes or workshop manual. Mine has a pin hole in it I think. Has anyone Snip To the best of my limited knowledge only the six cyl. servo is rebuildable, and those kits were discontinued some time back. I bought the last two DAP had around '82. Maybe someone else is making them now, I don't know. The 4cyl diaphram was not available seperately. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Aug 7 07:35:00 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:35:00 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: American Source for Flaring Tool? > On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: > > DO NOT USE COPPER FOR BRAKES. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > have seen installed on LandRovers just come apart. Vibration > seems to be a killer with them... Dixon, I've used copper coated I bought from NAPA with good success. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Aug 7 07:52:51 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:52:51 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Misc Questions John Putnam writes: Snip > The Weber filter seems to severly > restrict air flow to the carb even when it is clean ( and it is very hard to > keep it clean ). John, No help on the oil bath, but perhaps on the element type. I had the smallish oval filter on mine, about 6x3x 1 1/2 high. That seemed restrictive to me, although according to the Weber manual it wasn't. Anyway, I got one the same size, only about 4 inches high instead, bought some metric threaded rod and replaced the studs to accept the deeper filter. I use a K&N that I can wash out. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Mon Aug 7 08:01:01 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 08:01:01 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Copper brake lines > Dixon Kenner wrote: > > On Fri, 4 Aug 1995, Tom Rowe wrote: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > o > it myself. Hugh, I'm very supprised. Most reputable repair shops won't touch anything these days that could result it a rather large lawsuit. Since copper is quite dangerous to use for brakes, they might be subject to such action. You were lucky to find them. That's assuming your brakes don't fail. If they do, then I guess you were *unlucky* to find them. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From mmurphy@evolving.com (Mark Murphy) Mon Aug 7 07:49:15 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:49:15 -0600 From: mmurphy@evolving.com (Mark Murphy) Subject: First Impressions of a New Discovery Well, I finally did it. Bought a `95 Discovery (7/26) - white 5spd cloth interior. Currently have 632 miles on the vehicle. The first ~600 miles were easy cruising at 55 mph on the flat roads around Denver. After the first 235.5 miles and 100 degree weather (A/C on!), put in 12.509 gallons of gas for 18.8 mpg. After 439.3 miles and again 100 degree weather (A/C on!), put in 11.389 gallons for 17.9 mpg. After 604.1 miles, 75-80 degree weather (A/C on for maybe 10 minutes out of the 2+ hours of driving) and 55 mph for the first 125 and 65 mph on the way home - 7.898 gallons of gas for 20.9 mpg. Gas guage does seem to be linear (not alot to do during some of these breakin trips so tried to guess/calculate gas milage). On Sunday afternoon, decided to change the oil. John Friedman's comments were right on the money. 30mm wrench looks close but wiggles, the 1 1/8" wrench fit perfectly (is the oil plug metric?). Bought some extra rags and used them! Based on John's input, I bought a painter's 5 gallon bucket and cut it down trying to leave one area higher to act as a diverter. Almost worked! Most of the oil went into the bucket but still spilled a cup or two. Diverter is not quite wide enough, unfortunately can't build it wider and still get it under the vehicle. Put the passenger side on a jack stand to give a more downward flow - think this help but also caused a backward angle (diverter didn't reach far enough). Saw a "pee like diverter" plastic funnel at Pep Boys - will buy and try it next time and see if I can make a smaller mess. May also buy a metal pan to put under the vehicle while draining the oil (plug and filter). Sears makes a solution which I have had good luck with to remove oil stains from cement.Will need to get some! The Fram PH8A filter fits perfectly. According to Fram (didn't have '95 numbers, but for the '94), the correct filter is HP1. The HP1 diameter, rubber gasket and threads matched up perfectly to the PH8A but was about an inch-plus longer. Probably will give "more" filtration but I want to check if the extra length will hang down too far. While I was under the vehicle, took a quick look. Tar sealant everywhere. In the hot weather, a little "tar" has dripped onto my driveway. No oil leaks. Everything looked solid and tight. Washed the Disco to remove all the highway bugs off the front. (Anybody know of/recommend a company that make a bug shield/air deflector specifically for the Disco.) Noticed brake dust on all four rims but not much. Brakes squeaked for a few moments when driving after the washing but has not re-occurred. I have a Recaro SE front bucket seat in my '87 Ford Bronco. As nice as the seats are in the Disco and considering the SE is Recaro's most basic seat, I am seriously considering putting the old Ford seat back into the Bronco and putting the SE into the Disco. The seat is substantially more comfortable. The side support is MUCH better. The air bladder in the SE gives more lumbar support than the Disco. (These comments are based on the 3 four hours trips I took to put the 600 breakin miles.) Overall - I love it. Smooth quiet ride, excellent handling and a fantastic sound system. During my first 400 miles with 100 degree weather, I never needed to run the A/C with the recirculating switch on and typically turned down the temperature one blue block. Brought two Keeshonds on the trips with me, one up front and one in the rear - considering their long hair, neither seemed uncomfortable with the above settings (don't have the rear A/C). Will try some serious Colorado Rocky Mountain 4 wheeling sometime in the next couple of weeks and post my impressions. Have seen the comments that the Land Rovers "will name themselves" and thought "Ya, right". Well on the last breakin run, was thinking about a name and considering it is a white Disco the name "ghost" popped came to mind. Within a few minutes, my mind had wandered elsewhere and the name was forgotten. I had previously told my wife about how the digest entry signatures typically had the owners name followed by their vehicle's name. Saturday afternoon, out of the blue, she asked if I had come up with a name and without any prompting from me, mentions that the name ought to be "something ghost" since just "ghost" didn't sound quite right. Well, looks like the Disco is almost named. I am sure "she" will let us know in good time! Many of the 4X4 roads in Colorado go to old mines and "ghost towns", maybe after our 4 wheeling trip we will know her complete name. Mark Murphy mmurphy@evolving.com From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 7 95 Aug EDT 1909 Date: 7 Aug 95 9:58:43 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Copper brake lines Hold it a minute, guys. Are we talking about soft plumbing copper here or cupronickel alloy? If the former, hell I don't even use it for AIR in my shop. If we're talking about hard copper-nickel alloy, this is aircraft stuff - I'd have no problem with it except for cost - it's quite a bit more expensive than steel. ajr From "Tom Rowe" Mon Aug 7 09:08:59 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 09:08:59 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Copper brake lines Ala Richter writes: > Hold it a minute, guys. Are we talking about soft plumbing copper > here or cupronickel alloy? Having been a weldor/pipefitter, I generally call metal what it is. So by "copper" *I* was refering to the soft copper used in plumbing. That's why I differentiated between that and copper coated steel lines. As for what others were talking about, I could only assume it was the same. For those with copper colored tubing and aren't sure what you have, if it bends easily, get rid of it. It's soft copper for plumbing, *not* for brakes. Happy braking, Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Jim Russell Mon Aug 7 07:59:02 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 07:59:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Weber 2 bbl and oil bath... John Putnam... Because I had always found the Weber's stock open gauze air filter very vulnerable to water and mud, things often found off road, I converted back to using the oil bath filter on my '66 2.25 88 about two weeks ago. I used a Weber intake adaptor for a Datsun (available in the US from British Pacific and possibly others). I used the stock air elbow and hose to the oil bath and fabricated a rubber adaptor ring to fit between the carb's air intake adaptor and the stock elbow. All in all, it made for a very neat and Land-Rover looking installation. Now a single run through mud or water won't fill up the gauze filter causing sudden breathing problems. But, while the jury is still out, I have the feeling that this arrangement is somewhat more restrictive to air flow than the open gauze filter when the second bbl opens up. Or to put it another way, there is certainly no obvious improvemet in performance and there seems to be a degredation and significant hesitation when you put the throttle all the way down. For reference, the intake opening on the carb adaptor is just under 3" while the oil bath and carb elbow are 2-1/2". As I say, the jury is still out because there could be a number of other factors involved. One is that the carb would probably like a rebuild. Another, this is all on a 200K+ mile daily driver/only car engine that hasn't been touched other than for the top end (shaved to 8:1 and Stellite valves) about four years ago. I continually refuse to check the compression based on the theory that there are things you just don't really wan't to know (like, never read the list of ingredients after you have started to eat whatever it is because it suddenly might not taste quite as good). I'd be very interested in hearing your experience if you make the change back to the oil bath. My current plan is to leave it this way at least for now since I already have a lifetime of projects to do on this vehicle (and I've already had it nineteen years). Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From Haas Mon Aug 7 16:23:04 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 16:23:04 +0000 (BST) From: Haas Subject: @!#%$&* Steering Relay... Having finally started the long-planned rebuild of my 1970 LWB Station Wagon (well, I've started dismantling it, which may not amount to the same thing...), can I get the steering relay out? Can I hell! Copious amounts of penetrating oil, coupled with the entire weight of the front end of the vehicle bearing on the bottom of the shaft have not budged it even 1mm, and yes, I have removed the securing flange! Has anyone any experience of removing obstinate relays? Yours in desparation, Marcus From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Mon Aug 7 11:54:39 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 11:54:39 EDT From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: 109" prices in UK, 109" junker? Hello, I am still looking for that 109" (thanks to many who replied with leads on 109's). I just got hold of a british 4x4 market newsletter. Reading the first page of LR ads I found a bunch of series II and III 109's in "top running order" for 1,100-1,500 pounds!!! It costs $600-800 to ship, I guess. Gee, it seems like a good deal! In light of that information, and several other possible schemes, I could make do with a basketcase parts 109", as long as it has a decent body and a title :) Do you know of one? The worse mechanically it is, the better... Thanks for your patience - I'll stop as soon as I find one. Jan ----- End Included Message ----- From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 07 95 Aug EDT 1912 Date: 07 Aug 95 12:05:36 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: The 109 All, Well, the offers that came flooding in for the 109 soon dried up to nothing, same as normal, lots of talk, want to see it ASAP, offers over the phone, appointments made and then no shows. Anyway, I have decided to restore/refuribish it, give me something to do over the winter ! I have already got the rear axle stripped down to refurbish the brakes, pipes, and hub seals. I have the petrol tank out and the rear crossmember is cut out ready for a new one. This stuff is fun ! I tried out the electrics and after being dormant since the mid 80's the headlights came on, flashers worked, and the Kodiak heater cranked up. I have even got the orginal "Rover" winch running ! SLOWLY. Anyone know of a source for the "ELEPHANT hide" material found on the early models, the rear bench seat had been eaten by and family of squirels, there are acorns EVERYWHERE !! BTW, I fitted copper pipes to my SIII, I have had no problems at all . Mark From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 07 95 Aug EDT 1912 Date: 07 Aug 95 12:05:37 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: new Address All, I'm just posting this for those that have been trying to contact me. I had to change over my Internet address last week, work related, anyone need to contact me, here Iam. Mark From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Mon Aug 07 10:38:39 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 10:38:39 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: spare magazines for swaps I have been sorting through my Land Rover material, kind of like paint ing the Forth bridge (limey joke) really. Anyhow, I have the following original copies of Land Rover Owner and Land Rover World extra, but also below is what I'm missing in my collection. Would anyone who has any they can swap let me know. Have extra:- LRO OCT 89, Jun 90, March 91 a bit ratty at the edges, Jun 91, Jan 92, Sept 93, Dec 94 two copies. Land Rover World issues eight and twelve extra also I have May Jun 94 Carguide, canadian mag, with article by Jim Kenzie on Disco and La Ruta Maya. Also May 89 Classic and sportscar with article on classic series one Land Rovers. I need the following:- LRO Aug 90, Apr 91, Jly 91, Dec 91, Jun 92, May 93, Aug 93, Land Rover World four, five, nine, ten. TTFN Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Mon Aug 07 10:59:30 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 10:59:30 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: magazines for swaps Hi there y'all again. I told you this sorting out job was a never ending thing. WEll I just found a bunch more issues of LRO spares:- Jan 94 Feb 94, March 94, Jun 94, May 94, Sept 94, Oct 94, Nov94, and I need:- Nov 93 and Dec 93 aswell. TTFn Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Aug 07 09:39:59 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 95 09:39:59 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Vacuume diaphram... FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Vacuume diaphram... David, if you find out, could you please let me know too? I have a leaking diaphragm too. Does this mean that the LR birth control system is not working? ;-) Maybe I'll have baby LR's running around here??? Anyone know the gestation period for a LR? FYI, I called around and found a place that rebuilds vacuum boosters, but they "couldn't" provide the diaphragm, and could only rebuild it if I provided them the rebuild kit. (no diaphragm in the kit available from RN.) Lots of help they are! Thanks, Dave (big vacuum sound when braking-with MUCH effort, and getting a strong right leg) Brown #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "Jeff Young" Mon Aug 07 13:52:27 1995 Date: Mon, 07 Aug 1995 13:52:27 -0400 From: "Jeff Young" Subject: Re: Weather band on US Discovery i live in dayton, MD and can pick up WB1-4 on a 93 RR. i would expect it's a similar radio? Jeff Young young@mci.net > Return-Path: LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com > Received: from transfer.stratus.com (transfer.stratus.com [134.111.1.10]) by postoffice.reston.mci.net (8.6.12/8.6.6) with ESMTP id TAA11230 for ; Sun, 6 Aug 1995 19:55:03 -0400 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 35 lines)] > garym@racalrecord.com > N3JPU From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 07 95 Aug EDT 1918 Date: 07 Aug 95 18:20:13 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: Axle casing swaps all, does anyone know if a rear axle casing from either a SIIA 88 or a SIII 88 fit a 109 SIIA ? I know that the rear shocker mounts are attached to the casing, they can be cut out and reattached, anyone know if there are any other differences. Mark From Andy Dingley Wed Mar 01 23:53:39 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 23:53:39 GMT From: Andy Dingley Subject: Re: Right stick rod for sheetmetal? phnxbmed@ix.netcom.com (Charles Hokanson) wrote: >>I'm in the process of finishing up my Land-Rover ('64 model 109) and >>I need a bit of welding advice. You can do chassis members with a stick welder, but for the door frames you ought to either be a much better stick welder than I am, or use gas/Mig instead. Chassis member need either a large DIY / trade Mig and >= 0.8mm wire, or a stick welder. A small DIY Mig will require several passes to form a reasonably sized fillet, and unless this is done well there is a risk of voids and slag inclusions. For a chassis weld in an off-road vehicle, these are likely to cause problems. > If memory serves, the Land Rover has an aluminum cab, Land Rovers aren't aluminium, they're BirmaBright, a proprietary alloy of aluminium and magnesium. For most practical purposes they're much the same, but it does make a difference for welding. It's like aluminium, but even more so. It work hardens more easily, it's more important to anneal it when working it cold, it's more corrosion resistant, and it's harder to weld. When working aluminium alloys, a useful annealing trick is to wipe the cleaned panel with liquid handwashing soap, then heat it with a gentle propane flame until the soap blackens. Don't over-anneal it -- this is called *melting* it, and is to be avoided ! You *must* use the right rods to gas weld it; either 5% Mg/Al (Sifalumin No. 27) and either the Sifbronze flux for this rod, or a suitable acid flux. An alternative rod is a piece of spare Al bodywork! Use a *small* reducing flame, to avoid damaging the panel. After welding, scrub the panel with water to remove corrosive flux residues. The officially recommended brand of flux (according to my Range Rover Repair Ops Manual) is The Midland Welding Supply Co.'s "Hari Kari" brand. I am *not* joking about the name ! -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk If all it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with typewriters, how come AOL haven't written any Shakespeare yet ? From Roger Sinasohn Mon Aug 7 19:39:09 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 19:39:09 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Ivory Soap in your toolbox?? > A friend of mine recently told my wife that since I drive a 32+ year > old Landrover that I should carry a bar of Ivory soap in my toolbox. I have a (non-rover) friend who told me the story of the time he found himself in San Francisco, at about 2am on a Saturday night, at a Gas Station downtown, with a gas leak. So he called his brother in Marin (North, across the Golden Gate Bridge) and asked him to meet him and to bring a bar of soap. Now, mind you, I've been an Ivory girl for years, but if a guy called me up and asked me to meet them at a gas station in the city at 2am on a Saturday night, and told me to bring a bar of soap, I'd have said No Way! I'm just *not* that kind of boy! 8^) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Aug 7 19:37:50 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 19:37:50 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: advertising ettiquette for this list? Pierce had some good ideas... > Perhaps we can put together a quick Advertising etiquette guideline to put > in the FAQ? Only thing I could think of to add would be to be sure you want to sell something, or indicate that you're only thinking about it. And, when responding, indicate your true level of interest. (i.e., "I've got the bucks burning a hole in my pocket; how much?" vs. "Can't afford it any time soon, but just out of curiosity, how much?"). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Aug 7 19:38:12 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 19:38:12 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Antipodean Auxiliary Tanks > (Australia) '75 SIII 88". This clearly shows two fuel tank fillers: one in > the normal right hand position and one in the same position on the left > Does anyone know if the arrangement on Brian's Rover was generally available Dunno if it's original, but my 88" has the same arrangement. (Although one filler is not hooked up, so I suspect it may be a later addition.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Rick Grant Mon Aug 7 23:09:11 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 23:09:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Grant Subject: Series II electrics I'm in the process of getting a 59 Series II road worthy and at the moment I'm wrestling with such a tangled web of adapted, changed, rotted, and confused wiring that I'm beginning to think that this vehicle should be christened either Medusa or Hydra. Is stripping everything out and rewiring for negative earth a practical venture? If not, what is necessary in order to install a negative earth components such as a radio? Is that even possible? Are there any books or other resources that would help? On a different matter, I see that the right front wheel has a perceptible cant outward from the top compared to the left. The Haynes manual is silent on the point so I'd like some idea whether this condition indicates an expensive order to a parts supplier or whether it can be corrected through some adjustment or other. Rick Grant rgrant@cobra.synapse.net Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From Steven M Denis Tue Aug 8 00:18:57 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 00:18:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Flares The bubble flare tools are available from Snap-On for $86 US...seems that I know this 'cause I bought an IVECO truck that uses 6mm (1/4 in.) Bubble flares...and ain't *nobody* got them in stock.. so I can flare with the best of 'em now..paid about 20 bucks for a so-so double flare tool a while back....both work well, with the bubble needing less prep work on the line to do... BTW the Iveco is set up for copper lines for the European market...*plenty* of supports to prevent vibration...but *no* protecton form mud and road salt..the clutch line actually runs up the inside of the front wheel arch...*all* the lines were shot..... steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis PO Box 296 Fulton, New York USA 13069 From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Mon Aug 7 21:25:37 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 21:25:37 PDT From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: MISC -enjoyed the info. on the LR models. Neat! - R. Parker correct about DISCO volume interaction. The *remote* volume on the left side of the dash binnacle is simply a fader. If the Main volume control (priority) on the head unit is turned down out of instinct, the *gain +* fader remote will only fade up to the max. level of the main potentiometer. Several owners have driven into the shop complaining of insufficient volume until shown about this easily overlooked tidbit. Delivering salesman partially at fault for not alerting new owners of this *quirk.* Also means that new owner didn't bother to crack the owner's manual! - D. Kenner correct about heaters from Canada on early Series. I had an old *Kodiak* for a S2 that I used to have and it clearly had a red builders plate which had the place of mfr. as Canada. There are actually some of us down here that really do consider North America to be U.S. + Canada! Similar situation in South America. South Americans used to bristle when I was shipping down there in the `70s and Yanks would refer to the States as *America." They (politically correctly) preferred *Norte America* y *Sud America.* -Hoping for a good turnout at Stowe this year so that the tug o` war can be won by the Roverheads again! Come give BSROA, OVLR, and anybody else a hand (or two!). - Disco weatherband *WB* scans up to 10 NOAA vhf weather channels. Performance of this band is very much affected by terrain and performs better at sea or in flat areas - the VHF weather band is primarily a marine band. Geography is the primary performance parameter. Make sure the telescoping antenna is fully extended or else you won't get squat. cheerz Jim - now completely mad... and loving it! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C Diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (457/500) `95 D90 From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Tue Aug 08 02:11:54 1995 Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 02:11:54 -0500 (CDT) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: Disco engine prob; the Black Box #40??? Is there a DiscoDoctor in the house? This one has really stumped me! The Disco ('94, 5 speed) hesitates when accelerating; general loss of power with lurching. No better when warmed up, but is less noticable at higher RPM (whatever it is is sucking torque). I checked the spark plug leads (among other things) and one was loose. This actually cured the problem for about one day, then it returned (despite good, brass brush-improved connection). The loss of power is not of the magnitude of a non-firing cylinder (tried that) and each cylinder receives spark. No dead birds in air intake. Tried different gas (all high octane), as well as injector cleaner. Exhaust back pressure isn't a problem; I have replaced 3/6 (total) of the exhaust manifold to header lock nuts with LR dealer issue items (if you have a Disco, check this interface; mine has shaken a total of 3-4 loose, with subsequent rough and loud idle problems). The instrument panel registers the usual "check engine", which I did, until I discovered the Black Box. There is a black box under the passenger seat that is labeled "Range Rover On Board Diagnostic Display" and currently registers a red digital reading of "40". I would take it in, but I ought to be able to fix this myself, right? Any help would be _greatly_ appreciated!! Henry B. Wilson (wilsonhb@ctrvax.From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Tue Aug 8 19:59:56 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 19:59:56 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Bullbars for sale (NZ) In reassembling my IIA I'm not intending to reinstall the bullbar so it's for sale. It should fit any Series vehicle, but because of the layout of the front bars it's probably best on a II/IIA with the headlights in the grille. Big and beefy, and it includes side bars back to the doors. Offers over $200. Email hugh@fujitsu.co.nz or phone 09-8466571 or 3564800. It's currently in Auckland, but I'm driving to Christchurch next week, gods willing, so could deliver down-country. Cheers, Hugh From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Tue Aug 8 23:53:59 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 23:53:59 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: Copper brake lines Tom Rowe writes: :Ala Richter writes: :> Hold it a minute, guys. Are we talking about soft plumbing copper :> here or cupronickel alloy? : :Having been a weldor/pipefitter, I generally call metal what it is. So by :"copper" *I* was refering to the soft copper used in plumbing. That's :why I differentiated between that and copper coated steel lines. As :for what others were talking about, I could only assume it was the :same. Shrug. One of the reasons I went to copper was the recommendation in the Haynes Guide to Purchase & DIY Restoration. I quote from p210: For restoration work, both the author and Dunsfold LandRover recommend the use of Automech's copper brake pipe kits. They come ready to fit and, in theory, require no more effort than to screw both ends in place, although in practice, pipes occasionally need to be cut to length and the ends flared before they can be made to fit neatly. Copper has the enormous advantage that it will never corrode and it is also easy to bend to shape. Also available and just as useful are Automech's copper fuel lines. >From Tom's description this sounds like copper copper. Now I don't know if there's anything special about the "Automech" kits, but when I asked the brake shop to make up copper lines for me they didn't bat an eyelid. And the rear lines had been installed some years ago at one of the most experienced local LR workshops. So on the one hand the US contingent claim that copper is death-on-a-stick, but on the other hand Haynes and the local mechanics all use and recommend it freely. What's wrong with this picture? -Hugh From "Tom Rowe" Tue Aug 8 07:14:48 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 07:14:48 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Welding info > phnxbmed@ix.netcom.com (Charles Hokanson) wrote: > >>I'm in the process of finishing up my Land-Rover ('64 model 109) and > >>I need a bit of welding advice. For those interested, the American Welding Society (AWS) in Florida publishes hundreds of papers on welding including a section on automotive frame welding. I haven't seen it, but if the quality of their other pubs is any indication, it is a worthwhile series to get. They can be quite technical (targeted to the welding engineer), but they also have a lot of info for the weldor. AWS's phone # is available from 800 information. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Tue Aug 8 07:32:26 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 07:32:26 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Copper brake lines hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz writes: Snip > What's wrong with this picture? Dunno. Maybe some of us are safety freaks? I guess what it comes down to is if your LR is a keeper, use what you want. If you plan to sell it, consider the fact that some of us would consider copper lines to devalue it. As for the fuel line issue, the reason you shouldn't use it with diesel is that it does nasty things to diesel fuel. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Andrew Grafton Tue Aug 8 13:43:14 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 95 13:43:14 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Re: Copper brake lines Just on another note - someone said not to use copper lines for diesel fuel systems... This should be; don't use copper for the high pressure lines between the distributor pump and injectors. Everywhere else, copper would be fine as the pressures are really quite low. I think that pure copper lines would bulge on the h.p. side of the dist. pump unless you could find some with thick walls. That is copper copper, not copper alloy copper! ;-) Come to think of it, what's wrong with using copper tubing for brake lines as long as the wall thickness is large enough? Can't be bothered to do the calcs, but a small increase in wall thickness results in a huge increase in bursting strength... Could it be that the Cu pipe used on early vehicles had thicker walls than its modern Cu alloy or steel equivalent? I am certain that one could make a perfectly satisfactory pure copper system within the size constraints if one wasn't worried about the cost of using a lot of expensive pure copper over a little cheap steel. Just thinkin' Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From Andrew Grafton Tue Aug 8 14:10:53 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 95 14:10:53 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Dashboard plugs Have just been pottering through the Maplin catalogue and have found some 3.2mm diameter split pin type sockets that would do the job, part no. HF50E on p541 of the just-gone-out -of-date catalogue. Perhaps this is too late? All the best, Andy P.S. this is re: the dashboard 'banana' sockets on Series LRs that are too small to fit standard 4mm plugs. From "Francis J. Twarog" Tue Aug 8 09:17:18 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:17:18 -0400 (EDT) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Dixon, Robin, etc. Does anyone know about the legality of importing Canadian Rovers into the US - I was very interested (surprised?) to hear about S III 109s, a vehicle that I assumed was only imported after LR left the US. Quite simply, I have no interest in dealing w/ grey-market vehicles (I passed up a mint 1985 RR - only 50k miles rust-free - because the owner said "Oh yeah, you might run into trouble when registering the car b/c the VIN doesn't always clear" - NO THANKS!) AAnyway, I'd eventually like to get my hands on a S III 109 P/U and if it isn't a problem crossing the border, I just assume head north. Frank Twarog soon-to-be back in Burlington, VT! From "Francis J. Twarog" Tue Aug 8 09:23:02 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:23:02 -0400 (EDT) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Stowe BTW - if anyone wants a photo-copy of the registration packet for the British Invasion, email me and I'll send it off to you. As was stated before, there's now a $30US fee and a new location - perhaps this won't keep too many people away. Also, I'm not sure just how much of a focus Land Rovers will be this year, as Rovers North (justifiably) decided not to do off-road rides this year - but perhaps others might know if Automaster has anything in mind. In any case, I'm looking forward it... Frank From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Aug EDT 1909 Date: 8 Aug 95 9:29:31 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Recommendations for an inexpensive MIG welding machine? Well, I've given up on the stick welder...anybody recommend an inexpensive 110-volt MIG? It doesn't ned gas capability - I'm willing to add that later if I need it. Any ideas? available in the US, of course, apologies to the real world... ajr From "David McKain" Tue Aug 8 11:06:20 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:06:20 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Re: Copper Brake Lines I think that the opinion that steel brake lines are superior to copper is mosly based on strength and abrasion resistance. I feel a lot better about picking up sticks and the like and bogging down in nasty quagmires with steel brake lines. The advantage of copper brake lines, easy to bend and flare compared to steel, is just what puts them at a disadvantage off-road. But, if you prefer to keep your Land Rover on the highway, there is no reason not to use copper brake lines. Just my opinion. David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From "Tom Rowe" Tue Aug 8 10:26:46 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 10:26:46 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: for fuel Andy Grafton writes: > Just on another note - someone said not to use copper lines for > diesel fuel systems... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > between the distributor pump and injectors. Everywhere else, > copper would be fine as the pressures are really quite low. Actually, Andy, I was refering to a reaction between diesel and copper. It was something I found out over ten years ago and don't remember the details. I'll see if I can find them and post. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Aug 08 08:44:23 1995 Date: Tue, 08 Aug 1995 08:44:23 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Importing to US Francis J. Twarog writes: > Does anyone know about the legality of importing Canadian Rovers into the US. Quite simply, I have no interest in dealing w/ grey-market vehicles. Any vehicle not specifically designed and imported for the US market is a "grey market" vehicle. You should be able to import any petrol vehicle 1970 and under with only the addition of a PCV valve in a line from the valve cover to the carburetor. Diesel models are exempt to 1975 (?) or so. (Of course, we're not talking about taking a bulkhead piece from a pre '68 and sticking it on a late model SIII here, or are we?) -Michael Carradine cs@crl.com From Rob Bailey Tue Aug 8 11:11:39 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 11:11:39 -0600 (MDT) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Re: Military rovers for sale >A have just been handed a snapshot of a series 2a left hand drive >military ambulance for sale in Alberta. if the information to hand is [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Beleive he is looking for about $5,500 CDN aprox. >Can any of our western Canadian cousins throw any more light on these? I have seen these Land Rovers, here in Calgary. They are at a truck surplus dealer on 42nd Ave S. I believe that there is only one left, and when I asked, they told me it was a low milage unit from one of the local British Army training bases (but it wasn't Suffield). They said they wanted $5000 for it. I just picked up a 1963 IIa 88, and now am a little more knowledgable than when I first looked at them, so I thought I would go down and take a second glance at the remaining one (just to get ideas, not to buy, I had a hard enough time convincing my wife to let me have the one I've got!). It has 4 full length stretchers in the back, it would be great for camping! I'll try to get the serial number off of it, as they had no idea how old it was. If there is anything else you would like me to check out, just let me know... Rob From "John B. Friedman" Tue Aug 8 12:36:42 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 95 12:36:42 -0500 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Craddocks for USA purchasers Has anyone had any experience buying parts from Craddocks? Could you pass on any tips? Thanks, John Friedman From "John B. Friedman" Tue Aug 8 12:37:55 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 95 12:37:55 -0500 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Extended warrantee contract Has anyone with a newish Rover had one of these extended warrantee contracts. At what point do you have to buy them and how much do they cos? Any bad experiences? Thanks, John Friedman From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Tue Aug 8 09:46:47 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 09:46:47 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: 3 vs. 5 bearing 2.25s I was wondering if anyone can provide input on the differences between the 3 and 5 bearing Land Rover engines (2.25l petrol). I'm assuming that the 5 bearing is superior. Are there any significant differences beyond the number of bearings? Are most parts interchangeable. Is the flywheel the same or different? Is there something major I'm missing (like: heh stupid, they're completely different engines!) I'm considering replacing an old 2.25 with a new but stripped one and need to decide between the 3 and 5 bearing models. Part of the decision is how many additional ancillary costs will be involved in the 5 bearing purchase since the old is a 3 bearing. The other factor is a 250 pound difference in cost - is this worth it by itself? Many thanks in advance. Cheers, Jeremy Bartlett From vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Tue Aug 8 21:20:58 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 21:20:58 +0200 From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Subject: Re: Copper brake lines So on the one hand the US >contingent claim that copper is death-on-a-stick, but on the other hand >Haynes and the local mechanics all use and recommend it freely. >What's wrong with this picture? Here is the reason why: in North America there exists a special kind of very dangerous rodents. They like to eat copper brake pipes. These rodents (like e.g. the armadillo) do not appear in Europe, hence, copper brake lines do not impose a problem in the old world :-) Bert Palte From jsavage@pchydrm.com (James Savage) Tue Aug 8 14:15:38 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 14:15:38 -0500 From: jsavage@pchydrm.com (James Savage) Subject: Electrical problem? I sent this message last week, but unfortunately was having problems with our mail server and haven't been receiving the feed. Could someone please check to see if I've had any responses concerning it? Here is the message again. I've been having what seems to be an electrical problem with my '90 County. My cruise control functions erradically. Half the time it works fine, the other half I am unable to get the cruise control main gateway to operate properly. When I depress the cruise control main gateway switch, the button does not illuminate and the cruise control is not operational. When I then switch off the gateway I get the "Service Engine" light on the dash. Any help would be greatly appreciated, James - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - James Savage Systems Integrator Pachyderm, LLC Phone: (414)784-2466 333 Bishops Way Suite 144 Fax: (414)784-8373 Brookfield, WI 53005 Email: jsavage@pchydrm.com Visit our Web site: http://www.pchydrm.com - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - = - From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 7 20:25:54 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 20:25:54 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Problems with mail: apology Following an upgrade of my internet software I am having great difficulty uploading mail from my access provider; I currently have 83 messages waiting for me! I am told that a fix will be available sometime next week. In the meantime please accept my apologies if I fail to reply to mail you have sent or mail is returned to you. If you need a reply from me urgently please contact me by 'phone, fax or snail mail. I will mail once the problem has been resolved. I hope outgoing mail works! ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 7 20:25:54 1995 Date: Mon, 7 Aug 95 20:25:54 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Problems with mail: apology Following an upgrade of my internet software I am having great difficulty uploading mail from my access provider; I currently have 83 messages waiting for me! I am told that a fix will be available sometime next week. In the meantime please accept my apologies if I fail to reply to mail you have sent or mail is returned to you. If you need a reply from me urgently please contact me by 'phone, fax or snail mail. I will mail once the problem has been resolved. I hope outgoing mail works! ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From RBM1957@aol.com Tue Aug 8 17:12:17 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 17:12:17 -0400 From: RBM1957@aol.com Subject: 1996 Disco Hi, I've been reading this list for a while since I've been thinking about buying a Land Rover. I've found it to be a very interesting and informative resource. I have a couple questions that I'd appreciate answers to. 1. Are there going to be any changes to the 1996 US model Discovery? From what I've read it sounds like it could use a bigger (ie. higher performance) engine. 2. Has anybody owned both a 5 speed and an automatic Disco and what are your feelings about each? Does the 5 speed really give you a lot better performance and gas mileage? 3. Does anybody have any comments on buying a new Disco vs. buying a couple of year old Range Rover. Thanks. -Reid From Rob Bailey Tue Aug 8 16:29:36 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 16:29:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Land Rover brakes and such... I'm a new Land Rover owneFrom hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Wed Aug 9 22:53:30 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 22:53:30 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Land Rover brakes and such... :1) The brakes are terrible!! You have to pump 3-4 times to get anything :on the pedal. Common enough. Probably either worn brake shoes which need adjusting, or very worn shoes which are past adjusting and need replacing. You say some of them can't be adjusted, so maybe those ones have worn down too far. Pull each brake drum in turn and make a visual inspection. Measure the shoe lining thickness. The minimum is supposed to be 1/32", although if the drums have been ground a few times in the past and oversize shoes fitted then they may have to be replaced before that. While they're open also look for oil or brake fluid contamination. If there's oil you'd probably have to replace the axle oil seal, if brake fluid then replace or overhaul the wheel cylinders. :The previous owner noted that when you adjust the pedal :height bolt (on the front of the master cylinder bracket) it makes the :pedal quite firm, but the brakes drag and bind very quickly. After setting up that bolt the first time you shouldn't have to adjust it again. :Also, I have no brake lights. Get the brakes adjusted first, and check the obvious - the brake lamp bulbs. :Will the 16" wheels rub at all when turning? 16" wheels were standard equipment on non-US models. No problem. :3) The steering box stiffening bracket is loose and it appears as though :the rear most bolt attaching it to the frame is stripped. What possible :repairs are available? When I turn the steering wheel, the fire wall :flexes slightly, which makes me nervous. That'd make me nervous too. If I'm thinking of the same bolts they go right through the chassis rail, so should be easy enough to replace. Do all three while you're down there. -Hugh From "Tom Rowe" Wed Aug 9 06:36:02 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 06:36:02 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Land Rover brakes and such... Rob Bailey writes: > I'm a new Land Rover owner, Snip Welcome to Land Roverdom Rob. Sounds like you'll be learning quickly (or die in a crash). Check out the LR FAQ. Get a shop manual and *read it*. There are genuine LR, Haynes, and Autobooks, to name three. > 1) The brakes are terrible!! You have to pump 3-4 times to get anything > on the pedal. The previous owner noted that when you adjust the pedal [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > couldn't get 3 of the wheels to adjust properly). Also, I have no brake > lights. >From the way the old owner talks I'd suggest a complete brake system overhaul. Sounds as if (s)he was not into proper maint. Ajust the pedal stop bolt correctly. Then you could try the obvious, bleeding the brakes. But probably it would be worthwhile (a guess since I haven't seen the LR) replacing all wearing parts from the MC to the shoes. That includes the flex hoses. Check the metal lines carefully for integrity. I know this sounds drastic, but most likely you'll have to do it sooner or later even if you rebuild some components. But you can check them out to see for sure. If they are fairly new (which I doubt given the condidtion of your brakes) you could try a rebuild. The shoes need only be replaced if they are oil fouled or worn. As for the adjusters, if they don't turn rebiuld kits may still be available. If they do and you can't get your shoes adjusted then I'd say you need new shoes (or drums). On the brake light, get a multitester to locate the problem. The switch is on the 5-way connector on the right frame in the engine bay. > 2) What is the top speed with 15" wheels? What is the top speed with 16" > wheels? Will the 16" wheels rub at all when turning? What is the maximum > allowable engine speed (for extended periods)? If you're concerned about top speed I'd venture to say you should have bought something other than a LR. Suffice it to say LR's will meet the minimum speed requirements for interstates. I never take mine over 65. I haven't noticed much difference between 15 and 16, which don't rub if the stops are adjusted properly. > 3) The steering box stiffening bracket is loose and it appears as though > the rear most bolt attaching it to the frame is stripped. What possible > repairs are available? Remove the bolt and put in a new one. >When I turn the steering wheel, the fire wall flexes slightly, which >makes me nervous. It would me, too. A close examination a warranted. Good luck & have fun. I hope you have a good sense of humor. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Wed Aug 9 06:38:21 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 06:38:21 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Rear axle swop (Bill L's reply) > Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. ( owner of a 109 somewhere in > the middle of the Atlantic ) Gee, I hope you have a raised air intake on it. And I thought *I* used to get stuck. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 9 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 9 Aug 95 8:28:13 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Land Rover brakes and such... Re: Frozen adjusters: Atlantic British, I believe, had a special on adjusters this month for a reasonable price. You may want to give them a call. They also have full rebuild kits that contain the adjuster bits, cylinder bits and all the other goodies - but the kits are a bit pricey. ajr From ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Wed Aug 09 09:11:45 1995 Date: Wed, 09 Aug 1995 09:11:45 -0500 (EST) From: ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Subject: LR exhibit in Mass? Was admiring a canary (propor colo(u)r? D-90 in Cambridge (MA USA) the other day when the owner walked up......she told me there is going to be a landrover exhibit in the Brookline (Massachusetts USA) museum of transportation later this month (August)....Anyone know any more about it? Will they let me use the parking lot if I arrive in my oxidized land cruiser? Rob "LRO?....maybe someday" M Concord, MA USA From "Teriann J. Wakeman" Wed Aug 9 06:27:58 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 06:27:58 -0700 From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" Subject: Re: Land Rover brakes and such... Land Rover brakes can be an exciting subject. step 1 adjust rear brakes. Iyou can turn the adjuster 360 deg and not lock the rear brakes, the rear brake shoes are on backwards and you need to move the rear shoes to the front & the front to the rear. step 2 Pull your brake drums & look at the shoes. Oil means you need to replace the shoes and oil seals. leaky brake cylinders mean rebuild or replace. If the flat head screws holding the drums on are bad, the LR places have them and they are cheap. If the cams are bad, you can replace them. If the depressions in them are worn out you can use a small grinder & make more. Step 3 Adjust the brakes, front & back Step 4 look at the rubber hoses. poor condition swollen hoses can bulge and help keep your brakes feeling mushy. Replace as needed. Step 5 look at your steel brake lines. If they look badly rusted, replace. I lost beakes from a pin hole, no fun but exciting! Step 6 make sure the system is filled with DOT 5 brake fluid or DOT 4 brake fluid. Step 6 power bleed the brakes. You can do it yourself with a Powerbleed kit or many service stations have power bleeding outfits. Land Rover brake systems can keep bubbles in the line and sometimes you just need that extra pressure to get them out. Esp if you have the old style master brake cylinder. Step 7 Purchase a factory workshop manual set. NOT the Haynes manual that has some errors. Adjust thepedal linkage per the manual's directions. Brakes can save your life, don't drive without them TeriAnn From Rick Grant Wed Aug 9 09:37:32 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 09:37:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Grant Subject: Corrosion holes What is the best way of dealing with corrosion holes in the "aluminum" body? There are several spots in the fenders of my 59 II where electrolytic action between the steel bolts and the fender have resulted in greatly enlarged bolt holes. Is fitting an aluminum backplate over the area in question and drilling a new hole acceptable? Is there any reason why the wheelsplash guards inside the fenders have to be steel? Mine have gone the way of all flesh and it would seem to me a better idea to make them out of aluminum. When I reassemble the fenders. etc., should I be treating the steel-aluminum interface somehow in order to reduce the eventual corrosion? Rick Grant rgrant@cobra.synapse.net Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From igor@tinet.ch (Igor Cerutti) Wed Aug 9 16:14:00 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 16:14:00 +0200 From: igor@tinet.ch (Igor Cerutti) Subject: Gasket timing chain cover plate Is it possible that the gasket from the timing chain from the Defender 200 Tdi is the same from that from Defender 300 Tdi ? Tankyou Distinti Saluti, kind regards, Mit freundlichen Gr=FCssen, Meilleurs= Salutations ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- Real Name : Igor Cerutti Postal Adress : c/o TINET SAGL Centro Galleria 2, Via Cantonale CH-6928 Manno-Lugano (Switzerland) Phone : +41 (0)91 508118 Fax : +41 (0)91 508119 E-Mail : info@tinet.ch http://www.tinet.ch From igor@tinet.ch (Igor Cerutti) Wed Aug 9 16:33:28 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 16:33:28 +0200 From: igor@tinet.ch (Igor Cerutti) Subject: Gasket timing chain cover plate >To: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com >From: igor@tinet.ch (Igor Cerutti) >Subject: Gasket timing chain cover plate >Is it possible that the gasket from the timing chain from the Defender 200 Tdi is the same from that from Defender 300 Tdi ? >Tankyou >From: igor@tinet.ch (Igor Cerutti) Distinti Saluti, kind regards, Mit freundlichen Gr=FCssen, Meilleurs= Salutations ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- Real Name : Igor Cerutti Postal Adress : c/o TINET SAGL Centro Galleria 2, Via Cantonale CH-6928 Manno-Lugano (Switzerland) Phone : +41 (0)91 508118 Fax : +41 (0)91 508119 E-Mail : info@tinet.ch http://www.tinet.ch From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 9 95 Aug EDT 1910 Date: 9 Aug 95 10:36:01 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Corrosion holes Personal opinion... If this particular piece is going to be stopping tree bits, rocks and other such things flung in my general direction, steel seems like a better idea than aluminium... These panels are easy to fabricate out of heavy-gauge galvanized steel. This is proof against further corrosion, especially if the cut and drilled edges are treated with cold galvanizing compound. I just built a new one over the weekend for my driver's side wing using common shop tools and a jigsaw with a metal- cutting blade. I did the bending with a pair of 2 x 4 blocks and a couple of C-clamps. Considering I did the inner fender and a new steering box cover for 4 dollars worth of 16-gauge galvanized sheet metal, I consider myself well ahead of the game. Re: Aluminium corrosion: In these cases I solder on a backer plate and redrill. Not much else you can do, unless you're really good with a MIG welder. The low-temp solders work well for this if you clean the surface of both parts really well. Al R. From Andrew Grafton Wed Aug 9 16:26:21 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 16:26:21 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Dashboard Plugs !! I have just managed to erase a message from a chap wanting some plugs to fit in the dash of a SIII! Please mail me again! (sorry) All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From "Roger Garnett" Wed Aug 9 12:09:43 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 12:09:43 -5000 From: "Roger Garnett" Subject: Used Range Rover Ratings? Hi folks- I'm considering the possibly of a '87-89 Range Rover as a tow vehicle, with some winter, and other general use. The prices finally seem to be coming down to what I consider a reasonable range, which might make possible to replace my '77 Chevy Suburban. While the Chevy is quite a gas hog, is fully suited to the job of hauling my 18' enclosed trailer to the races. (Heavy duty tow package) I'm familiar with the basic vehicle and specs (and I've got a '70 3500S sitting out back), but I'm looking for some current, pratical info. Can any one give me, or discuss: -Buyers guide- good & bad points to look for, etc. -Owner experiences- running, maintaince level, fuel use, etc. -Evaluation as a working/driving car, overall handling, use for towing, etc. Hope I'm not hitting FAQ territory here, but I couldn't find much on the Rangie on the various Rover Webs. ________ /___ _ \ Roger Garnett (Roger-Garnett@cornell.edu) /| || \ \ Agricultural Economics | The Wayward Sports Car Centre | |___|| _ | 3 Warren Hall | http://www.wayward.team.net/ | | \ | | | Cornell University | \| \ |__/ / Ithaca, N.Y. 14853-7801 | (607) 533-7735 \________/ (607) 255-2522 | Safety Fast! From Jeff Gauvin Wed Aug 9 11:11:05 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 11:11:05 MDT From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: RE: Copper Brake Lines vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Says: >>So on the one hand the US >>contingent claim that copper is death-on-a-stick, but on the other hand [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >copper brake lines do not impose a problem in the old world :-) >Bert Palte With your smiley, I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but there is truth to what you're saying! On a recent hiking trip in the Bugaboos (British Columbia, Canada), every car in the parking lot was wrapped with chicken-wire (I've got pictures to prove it!). The explanation I was given was that porcupines like to chew up brake lines and eat tires! I laughed, but wrapped my car anyway... -- Jeffrey J. Gauvin email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com Symbios Logic Inc. Voice: 719-573-3563 1635 Aeroplaza Dr. FAX: 719-573-3824 Colorado Springs, CO 80916 From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 09 95 Aug EDT 1914 Date: 09 Aug 95 14:11:46 EDT From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Disco engine prob; the Black Box #40??? I am not a DiscoDoctor, but the error code of 40 indicates that the left engine bank was missfiring. At least that is what it indicates on the RR. This could have been caused by your loose wire or something else. What you need to do is clear the error code and see if another one shows up that might be more informative. According to the shop manual, to clear the fault code: 1. Switch ON ignition. 2. Disconnect serial link mating plug, wait 5 seconds, reconnect. 3. Switch OFF ignition, wait for main relay to drop out. 4. Switch ON ignition. This should either leave the display blank (no more error codes) or show additional error codes. If you get any others let me know and I will look them up. p.s. How is Nashvegas. I graduated in '88(one of my favorite numbers ) and haven't been back in a long time. E-mail from: Robert Dennis, 09-Aug-1995 From dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Wed Aug 09 14:00:18 1995 Date: Wed, 09 Aug 95 14:00:18 -0500 From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Subject: Wrong book-110 Parts Catologue I ordered some books from lro bookshelf and they sent me one book in error. It was the Land Rover 110 parts Catologue (genuine). My first instinct is to send it back to the UK. Is there anyone in the US or Canada that wants one of these things. I am simply looking for what I paid for it. It is still sealed in original plastic bag. -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Andy Dingley Wed Aug 09 13:03:36 1995 Date: Wed, 09 Aug 95 13:03:36 From: Andy Dingley Subject: Copper brake lines This is one that crops up regularly in rec.autos.tech. It involves airconditioning ! In the UK, you can't find brake-sized copper pipe, except as proper brake pipe from somewhere like Automech. It's a copper *alloy* with about 5% nickel, an perfect for brake pipes. In the US, airconditioner pipe is widely available. Small, pure copper, work-hardens with vehicle vibration and cracks easily. Death-on-a-stick for brake pipes. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk If all it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with typewriters, how come AOL haven't written any Shakespeare yet ? From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Wed Aug 09 19:38:27 1995 Date: Wed, 09 Aug 95 19:38:27 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS 3 Cliclacs gone, one tootsie toy gone Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From "Francis J. Twarog" Wed Aug 9 21:51:39 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 21:51:39 -0400 (EDT) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: RIP Jerry The events of today reminded me not to put off those things that I really want to do. Case in point - although I saw the Jerry Garcia Band in 1990 and hung out ticketless at a Dead show in '91, I never did get to see the Grateful Dead in concert (I suppose it's one of those "things" that poeple my age feel obligated to do) because I kept putting it off, saying maybe next time... Well, hopefully this will help remind me not to continue with that policy (like that trip out west in the Rover...) Frank From jpappa01@interserv.com Wed Aug 9 19:53:00 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 19:53:00 PDT From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Extended warranties RE: extended warranties noticed someone was interested in info on extended warrs. 18-month extended warr. avail. through Land Rover NA. Also up to 4yrs/48K avail. through ITT. This continues factory warranty as long as purchased before the 3yr/42K original warranty *HAS NOT* expired. Its not cheap butgives good peace of mind and if it saves you the cost of a major component failure - then it *IS* cheap! cheerz Jim From Kelly Minnick Wed Aug 9 20:00:25 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 95 20:00:25 PDT From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Transfer case RE: transfer case I'm rebuilding a '65 transfer case. I have a couple of questions about the early LR workshop manual and the Haynes manual. I'm trying to set the end float on the High-gear that mounts to the rear output shaft. This box is a straight cut/helical box. The book says that the end-float should be .006-.008" If it is not in this range, they recommend a new thrust washer, then shaft and/or gear. So, on this new shaft with a new thrust washer ($25 US) and circlip, I measure .028" gap. So, I decide I have to have the gear. ($60) I get the new gear and find out that it is .001" wider than the old one in my hand. (1.497") It's gap is .027" (funny). So I looked into the SIII manual (latest and '73 edition) and find that it says to press the circlip towards the gear and set the MINIMUM end-float. Why would you have a tolerance band (.006-.008") on the minimum float? and what about the max. float? Can it be 2 inches? Could it be they screwed up? And get this. All new parts, the end float measures .010" (using the SIII method). With new parts, it is not in this tolerance 'band'. They should set a max and min... So, what does everyone do out there? Inquiring minds want to know... Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari & '91 RR Ridgecrest, CA From Roger Sinasohn Wed Aug 9 19:07:29 1995 Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 19:07:29 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: 109" prices in UK, 109" junker? > series II and III 109's in "top running order" for 1,100-1,500 > pounds!!! > It costs $600-800 to ship, I guess. Gee, it seems like a good deal! Maybe a bunch of us in the states should get together and rent a cargo ship and bring a bunch over? My brother is also looking for a 109". Perhaps the two of you could get a quantity discount on shipping? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Aug 10 00:12:38 1995 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 00:12:38 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Land Rover brakes and such... Rob Bailey asks... > 1) The brakes are terrible!! You have to pump 3-4 times to get anything > on the pedal. The previous owner noted that when you adjust the pedal > height bolt (on the front of the master cylinder bracket) it makes the ..... > couldn't get 3 of the wheels to adjust properly). Also, I have no brake > lights. / Could be lots of things. The adjusters are probably worn. They can be replaced. The brake shoes are probably worn. The brake drums may also have been "turned" at some point. You may also have air in the brake hydraulics. One thing at a time here. No brake lights could be a broken switch or broken wires. The brake light switch is hydraulically operated and is mounted on the right-hand frame rail, just in front of the bulkhead. If you can disconnect the two wires from the switch, and then connect the wires together you will be able to test the lights without the switch. (You have to turn on the ignigtion key) If the brake lights come on, then your brake light switch is faulty. If not, then check the lamps, the wiring at the back of the truck or the connection for the rear harness - which is close to the brake light switch. Hopefully, all the wires are intact! Having to pump the brakes usually means that there is air in the lines. You will have to bleed the brake lines to clear that up. If this hasn't been done in a while, there is a chance that the bleeder valves may snap off. If that happens, you can replace the valves, but it is usually better to replace the wheel cylinders. If you have to bleed the complete system - for example if you replace the master cylinder - you may need to use a pressure bleeder. It's a real pain in the arse to do it without one. Worn brake shoes and/or drums will result in a "low" brake pedal - since the shoes have to move further outwards to contact the drums. No.. you don't want to fiddle with the adjustment on the front of the master cylinder support. That sets the pedal height. There is also an adjustment on the master cylinder pushrod (which you probably should check) that allows for some free play in the pedal. Without the free play, the master cylinder doesn't work right and could result in you having to pump the brakes. > 2) What is the top speed with 15" wheels? What is the top speed with 16" > wheels? Will the 16" wheels rub at all when turning? What is the maximum > allowable engine speed (for extended periods)? / 15" wheels - slow. 16" - faster. Ok, Ok.. I can cuise at 60MPH with 16" wheels. With the 15" wheels, 55MPH seemed a bit much. I have done 65MPH with the 15" wheels but the engine was just screaming! If you go from 15" to 16" the tires will probably rub at full lock. There is a stop adjustment for the swivel balls to prevent this. Maximum engine speed? When it sounds like the pistons are ready to go airborn you're probably going too fast! It all depends on what condition your engine is in. Going from 15" to 16" wheels will also make your speedometer read off. > 3) The steering box From "Teriann J. Wakeman" Thu Aug 10 05:34:29 1995 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 05:34:29 -0700 From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" Subject: Re: Extended warranties d , From MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Thu Aug 10 8:59:55 1995 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 8:59:55 -0400 (EDT) From: MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Subject: RE: soap and springs... On 4 Aug Mark Perry wrote: >does nearside/ offside mean in relation to the curb, er, kerb? >From what I've always understood nearside is the passenger side and offside is the drivers side so in the U.S. that would be the right side and left side respectively. HTH, MTD From "Tom Rowe" Thu Aug 10 08:09:07 1995 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 08:09:07 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Copper brake lines > In the UK, you can't find brake-sized copper pipe, except as proper > brake pipe from somewhere like Automech. It's a copper *alloy* with > about 5% nickel, an perfect for brake pipes. Ahh! Now we learn the truth. I've been wondering what it was they sell. That explains it. > In the US, airconditioner pipe is widely available. Small, pure > copper, work-hardens with vehicle vibration and cracks easily. Now that you mention it, I did a brake job on a LR some years back that had copper lines (plumbing type) and they were *quite* brittle, two or three flexes back and forth and I snapped them in two. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 10 95 Aug EDT 1907 Date: 10 Aug 95 7:48:56 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: -No Subject- {Description of purchase of a nice 109 deleted to save space} >1 - Alternator mounting: If you can find an alternator bracket from a later 2.25 or 2.5 engine, it works well with 3 1-inch spacers behind it. A length of steel with a slot or a series of holes then supports the top bolt. This works quite well, and is what I am using on MY 109 pickup (a '64). >2 - Smiths heater replacement: A used Kodiak heater. A chap here on the list advertisd one a week or so ago. If not, call some of the Canadian parts dealers. They can be had used. >3 - How does one go about checking and topping off the oil level in the >front steering relay? (the one down by the grill) With one the age of yours, you pop two bolts, one of the ones in the circumference of the top and the one in the very top center. Put oil in the hole opened by releasing the top bolt until it comes out the bottom bolt hole. Close it up, and you're done. >4 - I could use any tips on winterizing my vehicle. Insulation, insulation and more insulation. Rover pickups have squat for insulation, and no heater is going to keep up with a drafty aluminum box. Puting in ome carpeting, door panels and a roof liner will help with the noise and help keep you warm, too. Used parts: Ask around and keep your eyes open. Personally, when it comes to things like the locker covers, I usually make my own. Galvanized steel is not difficult to work with hand tools, and if painted properly looks completely original. Also, if you're not a purist (and I'm not, as the list knows...), seats from another make can be fitted and be quite comfortable. I'm fitting mine with 2 leather buckets removed from a Volvo donor in a scrapyard, for example. >Shalom, Joe Manickam Shalom alecheim, Joe..... -Al R. From tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Thu Aug 10 10:34:45 1995 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 10:34:45 EDT From: tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Subject: Brake rotors Hi all, Does anyone know where to get vented front rotors for 89 Range Rover? Mine are shot and need replacement. I was very surprised to see a thin solid rotor upfront in such a heavy vehicle! No wonder I can fade the brakes in a fiew hard stops. Actually, I'll appreciate any suggestions on improving braking (pads, rotors, cooling). Thanks Tony B From "Sean McInerney" 10 1995 Aug -0500 1910 Date: 10 Aug 1995 10:39:53 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Shipping from the UK Shipping from the UK >John Wootton wrote: >[Folly] awaiting her new galvanized frame from across the pond. In the same box will be every other little thing that I've either ruined in taking it off, or which fell off when I glanced at it sideways. New frame, new floor, new firewall ( or at least a new old one), new paint, new brakes, new harness. The list of parts on the order sheet is too long by a page!! Say John... If you do not mind saying, who are you purchasing your pile of parts from and approximately how much was the shipping on the lot (one box?)? It's all in one enormous crate?...Have fun getting it home! {8-O Did you have a good experience with this LR merchant? I have all sorts of things on my Rover wish list and would also like to order a huge pile from the UK, perhaps including a frame. UK prices look exceedingly low compared to U.S. sources, but do the shipping charges make it economically viable? What about customs (but, you are in Canada, right?)? Does the the shipping charge look less ugly in comparison to the savings on parts prices when buying in relative bulk (for an individual)? Just frustrated with prices on this side of the Atlantic (don't feel right calling it "The Pond"). Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88"...currently topless...extra condensation in the speedometer! From "Tom Rowe" Thu Aug 10 10:21:26 1995 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:21:26 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: RR rotors Tony Bromberg writes: > Does anyone know where to get vented front rotors for 89 Range Rover? > Mine are shot and need replacement. I was very surprised to see a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Actually, I'll appreciate any suggestions on improving braking (pads, > rotors, cooling). Tony, Back when I used to ride a BMW (I still long for one. Someday, again) there was an article in one of the bike mags about drilling your rotors, if I remember correctly. I've never done it so I don't know about pros and cons. Pehaps a good brake shop could help you out. Does annyone know anything about that? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Doug Carmean" Thu Aug 10 09:25:23 1995 Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 09:25:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Doug Carmean" Subject: A new RR 4.0SE Well, I'm sure that this little story of me and my 4.0SE will bring snickers from the real LR owners, but I thought I'd pass on my experiences with my new RR. I recently took delivery of a 1995 Avalon Blue RR 4.0SE. After being told by countless brokers (OK, just 4 of them) that the only two cars that they can't get for a discount are Land Rovers and Saturns, I bent over and bought it from the local dealer. The dealer only had one demo on his lot, so I was required to give him a $1,000 and wait ~30 days for the honor of owning a LR. On delivery day, the salesman spent almost 2 hours going over the car with me, giving me a tour of their service department, and introducing me to various people around the dealership. We were presented with the standard LR picnic basket, filled with various goodies from the little Island out there somewhere. After reading stories on the digest about ants and moldy food in the baskets, I was quite relieved to find everything quite tasty and totally bug free. As I got about a block away from the dealership, I noticed a drab green Series III driving a couple of lanes over. This was the first one I can recall seeing on the streets of Portland. I got this amazing look from the driver of the other LR. It's hard to describe, but, needless to say, it was a near sneer. Kind of one of those looks that said 'Don't you wish you had a *real* LR?'. Well, life with the RR has been great. The beast is averaging very close to 14.0 MPG on a mix of hwy/city driving. It's been fairly warm here, so the climate controls have been cranked way down. I've been taking it easy on the new engine, but this thing is definitely not going to set any speed records. It seems pretty happy to cruise at 65 or 70mph after having taking it's sweet time to lumber up to that speed. We've had a couple of small problems. The passenger side seat (all electric) had a headrest that was stuck all the way out. After a trip back to the dealer, LR decided to replace the entire seat rather than attempt to fix the motor. Also, the external mirror on the driver's side vibrates on rough roads. The dealer said that LR has acknowledged that this a design problem and is currently working on a new mirror design. He said that they would update my mirror when LR released the new design. After reading about the Disco's radio volume control, I've been playing with the one in my RR. It sure seems like the RR volume controls are totally independent. I can crank the volume all the way down on the radio and then raise the volume to ear splitting levels using the controls on theFrom Alan Richer 11 95 Aug EDT 1907 Date: 11 Aug 95 7:36:34 EDT From: Alan Richer Subject: Bailing out for a week... If anybody's looking for me, I'm going to be elsewhere for a week... spending it working on Churchill, as a matter of fact! You can send mail along, just don't count on answers...at least quickly. Alan/Churchill From LTC Larry Smith Fri Aug 11 8:22:12 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 8:22:12 EDT (1222Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Overheating I'm new to the list, so please bear with me on this submission. :) I only caught the digest header from Fredrick Ellsworth on overheating. I have been having "indicated" overheating on my Series III for about 6 weeks. Replaced the thermostat, flushed the rad, took rad to shop (good flow, little blockage), replaced the temp sending unit, still "hot". Taking temp thru filler cap at top rad hose showed 165-170 deg F. Ordered a new temp gauge head. Night before last, used vehicle with headlights. Noticed high temp reading at speed, but both temp gauge AND fuel gauge would fall off at idle. Talked to a couple of folks who said this indicated a faulty voltage stabilizer on the back of the speedo. Fiddled with it yesterday to try to get voltage reading. Put it all back together and MAGIC it all works spot on. End of the story, must have been accumulated corrosion on the stabilizer contacts. From "Teriann J. Wakeman" Fri Aug 11 06:32:52 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 06:32:52 -0700 From: "Teriann J. Wakeman" Subject: Re: Land Rover Acadamy info Changing the subject.,,, I'm working at the Boston MacWorld this week and on a walk yesterday eveningon Beacon hill I stumbled across a corner with a series III 88. new yellow D90, newish black Discovery and new style Range Rover parked together. Only one was registered in Mass. Is there some kind of Land Rover related event going on in Boston that I am missing? TeriAnn From wharton@mail.scra.org Fri Aug 11 11:07:08 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 11:07:08 EST From: wharton@mail.scra.org Subject: TeriAnn's walk on the wild side... TeriAnn - I think what you described is known as the 'Mother Lode'... My family experiences apoplexy just getting a quick glimpse of a LR or RR on TV. I can't imagine what would have happened if we had happened on such a glorious sight... probably would still be there gawking ... like the proverbial monkeys w/ a football... Regards, Skip Wharton - '71 SerIIa 88 From the Holy City of Charleston, SC American by birth - Southern Rover by the grace of God From "T.F. Mills" Fri Aug 11 10:38:21 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:38:21 -0600 (MDT) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: LR stamps web page I have just started a Philatelic Land Rovers page on the web: http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills/lrstamps.html So far it represents a listing of every stamp I know about, and the scanned image of the only one I have so far. Any help fleshing this out is most appreciated. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 11 95 Aug EDT 1913 Date: 11 Aug 95 13:06:32 EDT From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: 16" Radials for SerIII I am looking for a set of radials for my Ser III 88. Since I live in the South-East U.S. I need a tire that is very good in mud, but snow and sand don't matter. I am very interested in the Michelin XCL 7.50 R16's but have not had much luck finding them in the Atlanta area. I am wondering if anyone knows if these tires are still available, and whether they can be found in the US. Also if anyone has any other recommendations, I am more than willing to hear them, but I do want radials. Rob Dennis Atlanta, GA USA 73363.427@Compuserve.com 11-Aug-1995 From The Loewen Mailbox Fri Aug 11 10:13:54 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 10:13:54 -0800 From: The Loewen Mailbox Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest get Iro-digest From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Aug 11 11:26:56 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:26:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: 16" Radials for SerIII >>>>> Robert Dennis writes: > I am looking for a set of radials for my Ser III 88. Since I live in the > South-East U.S. I need a tire that is very good in mud, but snow and sand [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > Atlanta, GA USA > 73363.427@Compuserve.com My local Michelin Tire place says to try Coker Tire at 1-800-251-6336. They are producers and dealers in odd and unusual tires. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 8 20:34:49 1995 Date: Tue, 8 Aug 95 20:34:49 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Re: 109" prices in UK, 109" junker? There are always bargains to be had but most UK Land Rovers in the price range 1,100 to 1,500 are not what I would call "top running order". Mechanically they may be okay, but chassis and bulkhead are likely to be quite rusted as a result of our climate. The comments on prices in the US compared with the UK are interesting. Over here we regard genuine L/R parts prices as being high. A business associate recently spent a short time in New Hampshire and was quite impressed by the low prices of goods generally in the US. Something doesn't seem to tie up here! Maybe my view is a little jaundiced by our deputy prime minister's recent proud boast that Britain is now a "low wage economy"!!! ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Fri Aug 11 15:49:31 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 15:49:31 EDT From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: D110 for sale in NJ I saw this in the local swap sheet: (my editing) "93 (?) land rover defender 110 5-sp, 8cyl, blah blah blah $35,900 LR - Woodbridge ", central NJ (908) 634-8200 Finders fee - 1 ride. Jan From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Fri Aug 11 12:58 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 12:58 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Progress on my SIII I took the day off work yesterday to get some work done on my SIII. I had no illusions about finishing everything, but I was depressed at how little I got done. My task list was: 1. Replace RH Swivel ball oil seal. 2. Install the new tape deck to replace the 1977 vintage Sears FM radio. 3. Replace the muffler. 4. Install my new overdrive. The whole day was spent on numero uno. First step was to remove the swivel ball drain plug. Nothing comes out. So, I remove the seals, and a lot of brown 90wt oil comes out. Kinda sludgy. So, I end up removing the whole swivel/hub/brake assembly, pulling out the swivel ball, cleaning the inside, and putting it back together. The top pin and bush need replacing, but they are not too bad yet. I will order them and take this apart again when I get the energy to do it. I ordered a new radio from Cruchfield, and they included an under dash installation kit that looks like it will attach nicely to the roof above the rear view mirror. Next step is to replace the muffler. The Arizona desert provided a baked mud coating for all the pipes that protected them very well. The adobe exhaust pipes (which are as old as the Land Rover) don't need replacing, but the muffler developed a split in it. I guess the mud was not splashed onto it when it was new. James Howard jhoward@argus.lowell.edu 1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim" Flagstaff, Arizona, USA From Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com> 11 95 Aug EDT 1916 Date: 11 Aug 95 16:46:55 EDT From: Steve Rochna <75347.452@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Nevada Rovers FROM: Steve Rochna, 75347,452 TO: lLRO Digest, internet:lro@team.net DATE: 8/10/95 11:06 PM Re: Copy of: Nevada Rovers All: Are there any Rover owners in the Fallon / Reno area of Nevada? I'll be working at NAS Fallon for about three weeks starting on the 15th of August (leaving at the start of 'Tailhook' weekend in Reno...damn!) and I'm curious if someone out there wants to swap Rover info / beers on one of those weekends. E-mail me direct at 75347.452@compuserve.com before the 15th. See ya there! Steve Rochna (sorry if you got this twice but it looks to me like the list missed it ) From morison@alumni.caltech.edu (Dark Dream Mists) Fri Aug 11 15:33:22 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 15:33:22 -0700 (PDT) From: morison@alumni.caltech.edu (Dark Dream Mists) Subject: Camel Trophy Disco Sighting >Got a call from Scotty last night. His son, Ian ran into a couple by the name >of Jeffreys who were apparently the British Camel team in the Mundo Maya run. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >so far I haven't heard from them. If anyone runs into these folks, I hope you >will have a camera with you. I'd love to get a couple of photos for the >Aluminum Workhorse. On sunday July 2nd my husband, a friend, and I saw a white Disco in Laguna Beach which was decked out for the 1994 Camel Trophy. It was loaded with all the goodies and stickers all over saying Camel Trophy 1994. My jaw dropped to the ground with envy! Our friend who thought I was crazy for being in love with LR's suddenly understood and admitted that the Disco (especially the Camel Trohpy Disco) was really great! Do you think we saw "The Jeffreys?" Question, does LR have a particular kit or method as to how they place the Camel Trophy stickers? Can anyone buy a sticker saying Camel Trophy? OK...one more question, I am going to England and Scotland in late September. Where is the LR factory located? Do they give tours? Do they give off road lessons? dreaming of a new Disco..... -Janine morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu From UncleBrad@aol.com Fri Aug 11 21:16:45 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 21:16:45 -0400 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Aluminum Workhorse The AW was mailed out today so LROA members can expect to receive it in a week or so (bulk mail takes longer than first class). Brad Blevins Editor From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 11 95 Aug EDT 1923 Date: 11 Aug 95 23:32:56 EDT From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: 16" Radials for Ser III >>My local Michelin Tire place says to try Coker Tire at 1-800-251-6336. They are producers and dealers in odd and unusual tires.<< I have not called them but I will tomorrow. >> Michelin discontinued these and the XC4 7.50 R16, at least as far as I could find out. There is now a 4X4 7.50 R16 (tt)* (or something like that) it is the last tire in the Michelin print out that I looked at at Wards AutoExpress.<< I have seen the 4x4 7.50R16 which is on some of the newer D90's. I am looking for something a little more aggressive since I have a set of 15" rims that have some better all-round tires. My current second choice is the Mud-terrains that were on the earlier D90's but I have always liked the XCL's especially since I saw them on the Camel Trophy vehicles. By the way I wonder what the Trophy Disco is using now if the XCL has been discontinued. If anyone sees the Jeffreys, let me know what tires they are running on. Can anyone confirm the discontinuation of the XCL, what about outside the US? Rob Dennis Atlanta, GA USA 73363.427@Compuserve.com 11-Aug-1995 From iharper@afm.org Fri Aug 11 23:45:28 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 23:45:28 EST From: iharper@afm.org Subject: Classifieds I think the idea for including classified ads is an excellent one!! Even if you're not in the market for another Rover, it's nice to know what's out there..... So...I'm looking for a IIA '88 to restore Withing a few (4-5) hours Drive >from Stratford, Ontario. Actually, anything older than a SIII would be nice. I only have the one Rover and it's almost fixed (i.e. the hole in my driveway that I've been throwing money into for the past few years is almost filled, and i feel the need to dig another one!!!) If you have one, or know of any for sale, you can either post it here for all to see, or I can be reached at iharper@afm.org So let's see those classifieds start coming in........ --- This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated. From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Fri Aug 11 22:43:16 1995 Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 22:43:16 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS Well, I'm just back from picking up the Mother Lode of toys. All 42 of them in all. I have cleaned them up now and comp[ared them with what is in the cabinet and I am happy to say that about 25 of them will be listed here in the next couple of days for everyone else as they are doubles of stuff I already have. Some neat stuff that I got were a red Lone STar series one, a Vitesse series 2 88 in the AA scheme that was withdrawn because of a problem with the decal not being close to the real AA badge. I got a complete mint boxed Lions of Longleat Corgi with meat and lions and den , yippeee!! i have found more variations of ones I already have but did not know about. It looks as if I will have to put an extra shelf in the cabinet to handle the overload. TTFN Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Aug 12 06:58:22 1995 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 95 06:58:22 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS Well I was up til past midnight with the toys that are extras to my needs. I have used my method of cleaning them, the big 3 inch wide paint brush. You would be surprised how good a job this does getting into the nooks and crannies on a toy. I dont wash my toys for fear of rust stains later. The following are available for those who might be interested in starting a Land Rover Toy collection. 1. Britains #9512 Farm 90, mint condition, box complete but a bit wrinkled. never been taken of the cardboard in the box. $25 2. Dinky # DY9-B 1949 series 1 AA Road service, Yellow, mint boxed. Never been off the cardboard. Box 9.5 out of 10 condition. I havent seen one of these for a while now, beleive that this was a finite run. $20 3. Dinky # DY-9 1949 Series 1, original release of this mould, *BOX ONLY* 9.5 out of 10 condition of Box. $5 4. Vitesse S2 88 Station Wagon Police, white with deals on doors. 9.5 out of 10 condition for vehcile, missing word police on rear chrome sign and partially missing same on roof at front. This is common withn this manufacturer . These decals often come of the chrome signs as there is little stick to it. Plastic box but no outer cardboard sheath. aprox 1/43 scale, aprox 3 1/2 inches long. $20 5. Corgi S3 109 Station wagon SAFARI version, came splattered with brown paint mud and bull bars and roof rack with gear on top. A real hoot to look at. Mint condition. No box. $15 about 5 1/2 inches long. 6. Dinky S3 109 Fire truck aprox 1/43 scale 5 inches long. Great looking toy. This one is a real looker, has a drop in Pilcher Greene style fire truck body mounted on a pick up. Bright red, blue lights on roof, complete with ladder, jeweled head lights, opening hoodand doors. Body 9/10, slight chip in paint front fender otherwise imaculate. One deal torn in 1/2. $60 7. Britains s2 109 miltary pick up. Green. aprox 1/32 scale 6 1/2 inches long. This isgetting harder to find as this is a 70's era toy. Not complete but a real looker on the shelf. Open vehicle, full front doors and winshield. missing canvas for top. missing spare tyre for rea and clip for tow hook. Missing front number plate decal.. Paint work 9/10. doors open, so does hood. All four wheels and tyres good. Pick and shovel on fenders. $30 8. Corgi S2 109 pick up truck cab. Lions of Longleat. Tyres and wheels good Paint 9/10 decal on hood. Hunter in roof opeing but opening missing flap and hunter missing right arm and rifle. No rear yellow cage or meat etc. Body white with balck stipes. $20 9. Corgi toys s2 109 pick up truck cab . Daktari version. wheels good tyres fair, body paint 7/10, green with black stripes. No lion or daktari. $17 10 10 Corgi whizzwheels s2 109 pick up truck cab. corgi flying club version with dark mid blue body and red light on cab roof. no decals or canvas, has tow hook. Paint 8/10, w\heels good. $ 20 11 Corgi whizzwheels s2 109 pick up truck cab light blue. Pony club version. No decals, no canvas, wheels ok, no tow hook, paint 7/10. $17 All the rest areplayed with, paint chipped and incomplete/ damaged in some way. Corgi s2 109 p/u truck cab, red, spare on hood. Non orig tyres 5/10 paint $10 PS this was #12 in the list 13. Corgi s2 109 p/u truck cab green, orig wheels but non orig tyres, tow hook, (as did above one oops) no spare on hood 4/10 paint. $8 14 Dinky toys S1 Mersey Tunnel vehicle. bumper complete but one end bent. decals 8/10, apint 7.5 / 10, tow hook , non orig tyres, slightly different shade than next one. $24 15 Dinky toys S1 Mersey Tunnel, bumper 3/4 complete, one end broken. paint 5/10. decals 5/10 tow hook, orig type tyres, $24 16 Matchbox #12 s2 109 sw blue no luggae on roof $3 17 as above $3 18 Corgi jniors whizzwhelles s3 109 military ambulance, so so apint and decals $5 19 Seven differnt toys in one lot. All have broken / missing parts. Some have been the subject of a childs repaint program. includes three #12 lesney s2 88 open, one corgi junior whizzwheels tow truck purple, Husky ser 2B forward control susoension damaged. Big Dinky 109 p/up, opening doors and hood, been repainted balck, wheels poor. S2 109 p/u tow truck no paint no tyres, jib in place and winder there, no interior. Lot price $6 Notes:- All prices in Canadian dollars, does not include postage. Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From DieselBobI@aol.com Sat Aug 12 09:40:16 1995 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 09:40:16 -0400 From: DieselBobI@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... robert dennis.. michelin tires can be ordered at a merchants tire store at 160. takes 3 days. better tire can be bought at price club for 104. its a b. f. goodrich trac edge. it will take 7 days to get them, other wise you can get them at tire america or other major tire chain From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 12 95 Aug EDT 1911 Date: 12 Aug 95 11:48:10 EDT From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: Tires for 88 RR Greetings, My 88 RR owners manual is quite specific about warning that the RR MUST be fitted with "S" rated tyres. Can any one recommend tyres for my vehicle. I would like tyres for all around/ hwy use. There will be little high speed, long duration, highway driving: And little off road driving as well. Mainly used for short haul errands. Thanks in advancce for your suggestions. Cheers Cliff. From "Walter C. Swain" Sat Aug 12 09:49:27 1995 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 09:49:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: 16" Radials for Ser III > Can anyone confirm the discontinuation of the XCL, what about outside the US? My Michelin Dealer, who generally knows what he is talking about, did confirm that they are no longer available. The August Land Rover Owner International Mag has an advert from John Craddock (phone listed as 01543 577207, you'd need to get country code and use 011 to access international call) for mounted 750x16 XCL takeoffs for 117.50 Pounds. So they are out there, but you are going to have to do some serious work to get them. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA From greg@triteal.com (Greg White) Sat Aug 12 10:55:41 1995 Date: Sat, 12 Aug 1995 10:55:41 -0800 From: greg@triteal.com (Greg White) Subject: Series II Restoration Underway Well it started when an associate told me that "any real 4X4 ya wash out with a hose", and I realized that my 90 Range Rover really was a working mans Rover. So I set out to acquire a real Land Rover. Six months later, there it was, sitting in downtown San Diego in a back lot. From the looks of it it had done serious work over the course of the last 30 years, but I took a liking to this not so well aged 65 Series II Diesel Truck. Luck would have it I acquired a parts vehicle not a month later and then seFrom "Soren Vels Christensen" Sun Aug 13 08:45:54 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 08:45:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: RE: 16" Radials for Ser III > the US? I can't confirm this on a Sunday morning, but you might want to take a look at Goodyear G82 7.50 16. I believe they are almost identical to the XCL's. sv/aurens From Mark Perry Sun Aug 13 03:43:12 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 03:43:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Perry Subject: celeb owner If shuttle astronaut Dr. Mae Jemison can be considered a famous owner, then it's worth noting she owns what she describes as a 95 olive-drab Land Rover, by which I guess she means a D90. BTW, did anyone who logs this sort of thing note former CofE envoy and famous hostage Terry Waite in June LRO Intl, with his D110 SW, which he says he prefers to the Tdi Disco he used to have? Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Aug 13 06:25:35 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 95 06:25:35 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Judge Dredd Rovers go Club I understand from one who should know that the OCTOBER issue of the magazine CLUB has on pages 14 & 15 a spread on the Judge Dredd City Cab by Land Rover. Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Aug 13 10:10:34 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 95 10:10:34 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS >From the list posted the following are spoken for:- 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Aug 13 13:50:10 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 13:50:10 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Brake lines v. rodents Bert Palte writes about rodents (specifically, armadillos) eating brake lines. This is *no joke*...though the animal may be wrong. Porcupines awaken from hibernation with a powerful hunger, and one that includes salt. In northern tier states, (and Canada as well, I assume) this includes winter salt-encrusted brake flex lines, radiator hoses, belts, even *tires* on occasion. Try explaining *that* to the insurance agent.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Aug 13 13:50:01 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 13:50:01 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Steering Relays Been away for a few days (the fishing was lousy, the tent leaked like a sieve, but ridin' the beach in the Rover was great), so pardon me if this is old stuff... Marcus writes about difficulties getting the old relay unit out - it can be a bear. Diesel Bob was having similar difficulties prior to taking his frame up to be hot-dipped. He eventually took it to a friend at a ship yard and used a jillion-ton press to get the damned thing out. Previously, jacking, using the high lift, Penetrol and heating the unit had no effect. If all your efforts have been for naught, you'll probably need at least a 20 ton press. *GOOD LUCK* *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Eric Russell Sun Aug 13 10:57:13 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 10:57:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Eric Russell Subject: Wanted to Buy - Land Rovers Our Club phone received two Land Rover requests recently. I'd like to help - but can't. Perhaps subscribers further away could. 1. Mark, in Iowa, U.S.A. is looking for a British edition LR 110. Is there one available to buy (in North America? mid-USA?)? Does anyone have any scraps of info on him bringing one in from the U.K.? or Australia? Mark was thinking that he could get one about 1990 vintage for about $15,000 U.S. I'LL RETURN HIS CALL IF I CAN GIVE HIM SOMETHING MORE THAN I KNOW, WHICH IS NOTHING. 2. Jamie, in Delta, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast) is looking for a Land Rover "Safari" of any year. I'LL ALSO RETURN HIS CALL, ESPECIALLY IF SOMEONE HAS A LR TO SELL HIM. Eric, Rover Car Club of Canada erussell@cln.etc.bc.ca Grade 6 teacher at Ridgeview Elementary School, West Vancouver, B.C., Canada Secretary of The Rover Car Club of Canada From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Aug 13 15:33:06 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 95 15:33:06 PDT From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: MISC. * Just back from the British Marque Triathlon at Mt. Ascutney, VT - it was outstanding with 85 teams present for the combined Road Rally, Mountain Climb, and Car Show. The lone team from BSROA aquitted itself well with a 5th place in the overall triathlon. I was disappointed that no one else signed up but we'll shoot for a better turnout next year. It really was good fun and the weather superb! There were very good turnouts from Jag, MG, Triumph and Morgan clubs - but only a lone Land Rover! Lets get with it. Faith, Bruce, Don and Nancy of the British Marque staff are to be commended for the hard work they did to launch this event! Everything was included - lodging, food, paraphenalia - including event sweatshirt. * The TOY store. Acting on a rumor that Matchbox has released some repros of early models - including a Land Rover - I dashed down to *Toys R Us.* There it was... *authentic recreation* #12 - a series one open top with original dark green paint, silver wheels, and tan driver behind the RHD wheel! Packaged in a blister pack - the vehicle sits atop an authentic Matchbox collector box. Really neat! About $2.50/copy. They had eleven of them in stock. Now they have none. cheerz Jim - now completely mad... and loving it! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (457/500) `95 D90 (1958) From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Aug 13 17:05:57 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 95 17:05:57 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Toy News Well, another red letter day on the toy front. I was crusin the local Toys R Us store with the kiddies and picked up another newbie for the collection. >From Leggo comes their number 1702 which is a kind of 90, atye least close enough for me! It comes right now in a double set with some space vehcile. So the kids get the space dohickie and i get the Land Rover. This builds up into an open vehciule with a fire chief chappie and a walkietalkie and fire extinguisher and lights etc. Aprox 3 1/2 inches long. This one has been doen before as a hard top rescue truck and a boat trailer and boat set. It has covered wheels and a slatted grill which is close enough for me!. got to go, TTFN Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Aug 13 18:07:22 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 18:07:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Wanted to Buy - Land Rovers >>>>> Eric Russell writes: > 1. Mark, in Iowa, U.S.A. is looking for a British edition LR 110. > Is there one available to buy (in North America? mid-USA?)? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Mark was thinking that he could get one about 1990 vintage > for about $15,000 U.S. Mark of Iowa is not alone in wanting to get his hands on a real 110. If they could be brought into the US there would be lots of them. The List is awash with discussions laced with a heavy dose of wishful thinking. The bottom line is that the rules have to be bent to the breaking point to get one into the country. The gray market loophole has long been closed. > 2. Jamie, in Delta, British Columbia, Canada (West Coast) is > looking for a Land Rover "Safari" of any year. Jamie of Delta just needs to keep his eyes and ears open. If he can get online he'd learn a lot on this List. Tell him to join the club so he will get to know Land Rover owners and others who would like to be, and in the process learn about the availability of more vehicles than he can possible acquire. Or he can go to England and spend his holiday searching for just the right one. Best Regards, Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA 1988 Range Rover From McGlynnGrp@aol.com Sun Aug 13 23:23:01 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 23:23:01 -0400 From: McGlynnGrp@aol.com Subject: ski/bike racks I just bought a disco and need a good ski/bike rack. It has to be one that comes out of the trailer hitch so i can get it in the garage. It must be strong and sturdy(we live in Colorado and will use it daily). I think the dealers sell them but can't i get a better price from some wholeseller? Any help would be much appreiciated! Thanks. Peter. From David John Place Sun Aug 13 22:46:21 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 1995 22:46:21 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Roof Rack I built a roof rack for my 88. It is made of 1" square tube and I chose this material because there are commercial plastic plugs made for it that really give it a finished look. I bought my tube locally and the plugs from a hardware store. Companies that manufacture chair and table legs use these plugs if you can't find any. I used 2" "u" channel for the supports along the side of the rack because they are just the right thickness to sit in the rain gutter. There are 5 verticle supports per side and the top platform has a second rail about 8" above the floor level. It is a direct copy of the ones in most safarFrom dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Mon Aug 14 11:26:54 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 11:26:54 +0200 From: dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Subject: Side-hinged rear tailboard While thumbing through my Land Rover 90 factory parts manual in the section concerning rear doors, I came across a rear door labeled "Tailboard, side-hinged". This appears to be a door of similar dimensions as the drop-down tailboard of the canvas top and pickup bodies, but with the peculiarity that it has the same lock assembly and side hinges as the normal full rear end door of the hardtop variant. Upon looking at pictures of the NAS spec Defender, it appears that it might be that door. My question is the following: Has this side-hinged tailboard been specced on any European market models (perhaps the limited edition 90SV)? I would like to know the probability of finding one of said doors with a Land Rover breaker in the vicinity of Belgium/UK/Holland. (OK, I'll admit that the real reason I ask is that I am looking into the possibility of converting my 90 Hard Top to something resembling a NAS Defender, while keeping the economy of my turbodiesel engine.) Thanks for your help, David David Beers 1989 Land Rover 90 TD HT Wang Europe Brussels, Belgium Email dbeers@eu.wang.com From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Aug 14 08:19:16 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 08:19:16 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Off we go... 500 miles north into the "wild country" of upstate New York, to fetch my first Rover, a SIII swb, currently owned by Guy Arnold. I'm driving up with my Honda, a tankful of rice, a lot of tools, and last but not least, my friend Nancy (god bless her). Spares for the trip back, plus a LR key fob, are being sent to Guy's house in Potsdam. We'll be caravanning back, since towing isn't an option (the Landy can do the job, but I've been told not to do it) We plan on camping at least one night on the way back, as well as taking the scenic route along Lake Ontario. All this should add up to at least a mild adventure, but not totally Roveresque since there won't be any lions, rhinos, or off-road driving involved (Honda's ground clearance is about two inches). By the way, Sandy and Dixon, mebership checks are in zee mail. Thanks everybody who pitched in with helpful advice, and not so helpful advice too. From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Tue Aug 15 00:31:34 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 00:31:34 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Road trip I'll be off the list for a few weeks. Just got a job in Christchurch, and I'm driving down there (in the landrover, of course) on Thursday and Friday. Just yesterday in fact the landy was still in pieces in the garage. A bit of hurried work over the weekend saw the various body parts refitted, and with a new battery this morning it started for the first time in about two months. A bit smoky, but she goes. Let's just hope she goes all the way. As soon as I get a new email address, in about a month I'd guess, I'll be back. Cheers, Hugh From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Aug 14 14:10:30 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:10:30 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: On 1 Aug 95, usssbkpy@ibmmail.com wrote: > >Starting last week, when I use the turn signal (left or right), the > >panel light with the trailer picture will flash along with the turn [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > have a trailer on mine, either. I've learned not to worry about it, as > long as the turn signal works The lamp is a warning lamp - it's tellinh you that either the trailer is not connected, or the lamp has blown (I've got a similar "problem" with my SIII - it took ages to trace the problem....) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From andre@lunatech.com (Andre Posumentov) Mon Aug 14 14:28:15 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:28:15 +0000 From: andre@lunatech.com (Andre Posumentov) Subject: Land Rover Cubby Box Greetings all, I'm a newcomer to the mailing list, wondering whether anyone can help with the following: I have a 1985 101 'Defender' (UK spec) and would like to replace the middle front seat with a console such as the one fitted to export model Land Rovers. Where possible, the one fitted to current U.S. specification vehicles. My local friendly Land Rover dealer tells me that he can only order one of these if I can supply a part number. Land Rover won't supply a part number, (or indeed a parts book) unless you have a US chassis number to quote them. And so on, in ever-decreasing circles... Does anyone know of a reliable source from whom I might be able to track down either the part no. that I need, or the item itself?? regards, -- andre ----------------------------------------------- Andre Posumentov andre@lunatech.com From Easton Trevor Mon Aug 14 09:37:00 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 09:37:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Fans The local equivalent (NA)(?) to the Kenlowe Fan is a Hayden (sp?) which is available in a variety of sizes to fit a variety of radiators. I am using a 12" and no mechanical fan and have been quite satified with its performance. I believe that Dave Lowe tried a Kenlowe and replaced it because of poor cooling. The fan can be bought as a kit with a relay unit that has a thermistor unit which inserts into the radiator fins and turns on when it reaches a preset (adjustable) temperature. The fan draws about 10 amps when running and can be configured to suck or blow. The fan has high efficiency blades and a shroud to increase air flow. It attaches directly to the surface of the radiator fins with plastic ties. With hindsight I would choose the 14 inch fan to get slightly more flow and cooling when off road and working hard at slow speeds. Trevor Easton, Grimsby, Ontario From Anthony Verriello Mon Aug 14 11:44:24 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 11:44:24 -0400 From: Anthony Verriello Subject: D90 winch package Can anybody give me advice on a winch for my D90...The dealer wants $2000 for a winch package plus installation (another $300) or so. With tax this is about $2500. Does the winch package replace my bumper/bull bar or bolt to it? They showed me a D90 with a winch and it had a totally different bumper/bull bar (that was a 95 mine is a 94 if that makes a difference). The person I spoke to really wasn't able to tell me exactly what the winch package for a 94 D90 was. Also is there a cheaper way out? Would be interested to hear what other 90 owners use. I am new to the list so if this is an old topic please forgive. verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com +-+--+-@ |_|_/|__\__ | _ |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite, =(_)=+==(_)' petrol not sandwiches) '94 black D90 (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole) From David Rosenbaum Mon Aug 14 09:32:30 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 09:32:30 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: D90 winch package On Mon, 14 Aug 1995, Anthony Verriello wrote: > Can anybody give me advice on a winch for my D90...The dealer wants $2000 for a > winch package plus installation (another $300) or so. With tax this is about $2500. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > a 94 if that makes a difference). The person I spoke to really wasn't able to tell > me exactly what the winch package for a 94 D90 was. Also is there a cheaper way out? Dear Anthony: I have a '94 D90. In order to be able to *pay* for accessories that I wanted, I ordered the factory winch, brushbar and front "engine protection plate" at the time of purchase so that they could all be rolled into the "new car loan". The winch for the '94 sits behind and below the stock bumper and has a non-roller fairlead. It is out-of-the-way in this configuration. The drawback to this set-up is that the control lever (engage/disengage) is not visible (operate by "feel") and the cable spool is close to body parts so that if your spooling isn't perfect so that cable piles up on one end or another, there is very little clearance: have to pull a bit, back off to neatly re-spool, re-pull, etc. which can be quite a hassle. The winch that came with the '94 package is a Warn 8000, but a review of the '94 D90 in Four Wheeler magazine last year said that they thought the power of the winch was less because of the way it was wired in the Land Rover factory option set-up. In essence, the '94 factory option looks good, but may be inconvenient as noted above. Rover's North has a winch/bumper option which has the winch sitting behind and above a galvanized bumper which looks like it would be much more convenient than my "hidden" winch. Also, I have seen a number of winches that D-90 owners had installed from Truck or 4WD shops that made a custom set-up with a more accessable winch than the '94 factory option. Either of these routes is less expensive than the factory option. I haven't seen a '95 factory winch on a D-90, but in a brochure for '95 I believe that there was a photo of an above/behind bumper mount (but I don't know if that is what is actually offered by Land Rover, or if it would "fit" on a '94...) I suggest that you phone Rovers North for their opinion, and I am sure that others will reply in the LRO digest. Best wishes, David Rosenbaum From Duncan Brown Mon Aug 14 12:33:52 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 12:33:52 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: First message All, I have just subscribed to this list, and have an eensy suggestion for the info file: nowhere does it say where to send messages *to* to send them out to the list! By looking at the headers of the several messages that have arrived since I subscribed, I believe I know where to send them. (If you get this, I was right, heh heh heh...) Just so the whole message isn't a waste of bandwidth, I'll introduce myself: I'm Duncan Brown, I'm 33, and I live in Earlysville, Virginia in the USA. I drive a 1960 Series II 88 with a canvas top, and I have owned it about 5 years. It was almost completely stock Series II when I purchased it, and I have tried to keep it that way...but because it is my only transportation I have slowly succumbed to the harsh realities of dependability vs. originality. My biggest breach of Series II karma is coming up the beginning of September: I'm going to drive the beast up to Rovers North in Vermont and drop a Turner Engineering long block in it. I have been inside my engine several times already doing sleazy things like putting new rings in and replacing a gouged piston so I know its days are numbered. I can *sense* the worn main bearings in there (Zen and the Ownership of Early Land Rovers). I have to take it on this 14 hour trek while it can still make it under its own power. I'll keep the original engine of course, and across the years if I can come up with all of the parts to rebuild it (things like bearings are officially "NLA"), I'll do so and restore it to its rightful chassis. Land Rovers: nobody can own just one! I also have a 1966-ish 109 Station Wagon that could most kindly be called "in kit form". I have about 90% of the parts required to build a running vehicle, they just don't all happen to be bolted on in the proper places at the moment. All I need is a little time and money... That's all for now, looking forward to being on the list! Duncan From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 14 95 Aug EDT 1912 Date: 14 Aug 95 12:53:11 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Fire Apparatus for Sale Folks: Is anyone interested in a set of parts needed to build a Land Rover fire tender? Includes tanks, pumps, hoses, bell/lights, nozzles,grab handles, rear hand throttle, pressure gauges, bed-mount storage cabinets, etc? Basically all parts needed to turn an 88 into a fire truck. This is coming off a Series 1 fire tender which was bought unseen from UK Land Rovers for a collection, supposedly with only 3K miles on it and never outdoors. Unfortunately, the condition is not as described, and it needs total reestoration. Given the original high investment, it is not worth my time or more $$$ to restore as a fire engine. So I am breaking it and using what parts I can salvage to build an 88 SI pickup. All the fire parts are good, though and will bolt right on to a Series Land Rover. The pump is pictured in the LR manual under the accessories section. Location is in Vermont in the U.S. (Stowe, where the British Invastion will be held). No price set, but open to reasonable offers and more interested in a good home than in big bucks. Cheers, R. P. Reid From matts@caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Mon Aug 14 10:08:41 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 10:08:41 -0700 From: matts@caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Tires for 88 RR I ended up with 225 light truck tires on mine. They are not S rated. My understanding is that the S rating means they're good to go very fast, like 100 mph, and generally only passenger care tires have the S rating. Light truck tires never do. I believe the only 205 S-rated tire is the one from Michelan. I don't have any direct experience, but comments here on the net indicate that the Michelan tire has a better road ride than any other tire you can get for the Range Rover. -Matt From chris.youngson@deepcove.com Mon Aug 14 10:44:18 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 10:44:18 From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com Subject: 16" RADIALS FOR SER Just a note on the Michelen xcl's. I was going to fit them to my truck about six monthes ago and I phoned our local hard-to-get tire store. He had them in stock in 7.50 x 16, 9.00 x 16 and 11.50 x 20 (for Unimogs). The 9.00 x 16's were 380.00 CDN + 14% tax. The 7.50's were slightly less. This was from a very good source. PS thats 380 each, 2166 for five includeing taxes. New truck time! From elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Mon Aug 14 14:26:25 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:26:25 -0500 From: elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Subject: The Cost of Inflation Or is that the inflation of cost? Recently as I was about to order a valve cover gasket from Rovers North I noticed that the price for the part had almost doubled. I called RN and spoke to Chris and he verified the price. Looking a bit further I noticed the head gasket sets had more than doubled. So while passing the time one boring rainy weekend a couple of weeks ago I noted the more significant changes for Series (2.25 gas unless otherwise noted) parts between 94 and 95 catalogs. The UK folks should get a chuckle out of our parts costs (1 pound = $1.60 US). Part OLD US$ NEW US$ 2.25 gas short block 1795 2250 2.25 diesel short block 2200 2600 2.25 diesel long block 2750 3500 2.25 deisel complete 4740 5350 Rocker shaft 139.90 169 Vertical cam drive gear 135 98.40 (down) Front crank seal 8 11.90 Military crank pulley 145 185.50 Starter dog 39 54.50 Cam gear 55 85 Crank gear 35 59 Cyl head O-haul Kit 355 405 Head gasket set 35.50 85.50 !!!! Valve cover gasket 4 7.95 !!!! Diesel VC gasket 4.50 8.50 !!!! Solex rebuild kit 39.50 75.50 !!!! Military fuel cap 12.95 34.50 Whoa! 88 fuel draw tube 39.50 75.50 !!!! 109 SW fuel draw tube 39.50 75.50 !!!! 109 SW sending unit 198 229.25 Coolant overflow tank 24.95 37.50 Water pump 119.50 225 It wasn't high enough already??? Mansfield heater base 499 599 Mansfield heater full 598 698 OD 695 850 OD mainshaft 185 234.30 OD top cover 17.25 39.50 !!!! OD in/out synchro hub 185.95 240 Track rod assy. 199 224.60 Steering stabilizer 65 75 109 2.25 R brake shoes 65 79 Diff ring&pinion 3.54 325 515 Spider spindle 15.95 25.50 IIA threaded wheel stud 3.10 10.50 !!!! IIA press fit wheel stud 2.50 6.50 88 outer wheel bearing 29 34.50 F drive shaft 190 219 R drive shaft 88 274 349 R drive shaft 109 to 72 293.25 349 R Rear half axle 86 69 Down L Rear half axle 89 70 Down L Footwell replacement 80 102.50 R Footwell replacement 65 89.50 Door frame repair kit 49.50 65.50 Tool locker III 69 89 Tool Locker IIA 89.50 119 Mount for Bat. & filter 199 249.50 III lower dash 395 435.50 III upper dash 258 299 Top for heat duct III 20 37.50 IIA grille to 68 35.50 59.50 Windscreen glass 191 223.50 Door mirror arm 12.50 18.50 Wiper arm, ind. motor 14.35 22.50 Blades 9.50 12.50 Wiper motor, III 135 167.50 Brake light switch IIA 27.50 16.50 (is this a misprint?) Distributor wire set 19.95 38.50 88 Speedo 175 195 109 Speedo 175 235 IIA ignition switch to 66 64.95 72 There were more, but I got kind of punchy after a while. I wouldn't mind if they did this and the other vendors went on their merry way, but ABP & DAP etc will look at these prices and say, "hey, if RN can boost their prices, we can surely raise ours". I can understand the cost of inflation, but it is currently in the single digits. I could also understand the fluctuation of the pound/dollar relationship, but it has been steady at $1.60/L. Does anyone in the know have any idea as to whether these increases were set by LR or is this a local thing? Have series parts prices in the UK increased correspondingly? Bill wmaloney@els004.attmail.com From elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Mon Aug 14 14:53:25 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:53:25 -0500 From: elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Subject: Speedo Calibration numbers I'm going to send my broken speedometer for my 88 with 15" wheels to Nisongers to get it rebuilt ($105 including return shipping). What I need is the speedometer calibration number for a 109 speedo for 7.50 x16 tires. Bob said it comes after the SN but I haven't been able to locate it. Does anyone have this info? Also, he has a IIA parts manual for sale $25 and several other Land Rover and Rover car manuals from the 50s and 60s. Just thought I would pass it on. Bob's address is: Nisonger 570 Mamaroneck Ave, Mamaroneck, NY 10543 914-381-1952 Thanks for your help. Bill wmaloney@els004.attmail.com From grea@net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Mon Aug 14 12:54:43 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 12:54:43 PDT From: grea@net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: LR SII for sale in Vancouver B.C.,Canada. Saw this in the Local paper ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1961 SII 109" 5 door with PTO winch. $C5300. Phone 604-540-9344 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is in New Westminster (a suburb of Vancouver) B.C. Canada. Gordon, From Duncan Brown Mon Aug 14 16:27:13 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:27:13 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Speedo Calibration Numbers (is that for swimsuits?) > I'm going to send my broken speedometer for my 88 with 15" wheels to Nisongers > to get it rebuilt ($105 including return shipping). What I need is the > speedometer calibration number for a 109 speedo for 7.50 x16 tires. Bob said > it comes after the SN but I haven't been able to locate it. Does anyone have > this info? I faxed him a list of things I'd like to get rebuilt just last week...and haven't heard back yet. Maybe I should call on the phone? All of my Series II speedometers have the number "1504". (It's the number to the right of the part number, on the lower half of the center of the faceplate.) I believe, empirically, that this is the number for 15" wheels so I too am interested in what the proper number for 16" wheels is, as that's what I'm running. The number is supposedly the number of revolutions per mile that the speedometer is designed for. I can't think of any reason that there'd be a difference between 88 and 109 versions. Same transmission, transfer case, and rear axle gear ration. I've seen a Nisonger-rebuilt combo temp/oil gauge. If he does that good a job on a speedometer for only $105, I'm psyched! I'll report back once all my stuff's rebuilt (assuming I ever make contact with him...) Duncan From Duncan Brown Mon Aug 14 16:38:55 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 16:38:55 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: The In of Costflation > Recently as I was about to order a valve cover gasket from Rovers North I > noticed that the price for the part had almost doubled. I called RN [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > catalogs. The UK folks should get a chuckle out of our parts costs > (1 pound = $1.60 US). I had also noticed this with the water pump, when pricing parts for my upcoming engine swap. I have twice rebuilt my Series II water pump, as the incredibly rare original new pump is an outrageous $160 or so most places. I envied IIA owners would could plunk down $100 or less and have a brand new pump. Imagine my shock when pricing one of those pumps for my upcoming IIA engine and now the Series II price starts to look good! $225?! I asked if it was a misprint and they said no.... I'll be buying a rebuilt one. I can only imagine there have been religious wars over parts suppliers and Genuine vs. aftermarket parts on this list in the past, and I certainly don't want to start one of those. But I have had some...um..."interesting" experiences with non-Genuine parts from to-remain-nameless parts suppliers, and have come to respect the extra value one gets from dealing with Genuine Parts and especially when dealing with Rovers North. But if Land Rover has just decided to double their prices, I may become a convert, an afertmarket parts heathen. Who can afford the "real" stuff at those prices? If Rovers North is the source of the price increase, that's even worse! (but market forces would correct that pretty quickly, making them repair their prices or lose all their business...) I would very much like to hear The Story on this, if anyone knows it. Duncan From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Aug 14 14:03:54 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 14:03:54 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: The Cost of Inflation William Maloney writes: >I wouldn't mind if they did this and the other vendors went on their merry >way, but ABP & DAP etc will look at these prices and say, "hey, if RN can >boost their prices, we can surely raise ours". And now UK vendors will raise their prices to US customers too! -Michael Carradine cs@crl.com From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Aug 14 18:43:39 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 18:43:39 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Extended warranties J. Pappas informs us: > RE: extended warranties > noticed someone was interested in info on extended warrs. 18-month extended [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Its not cheap butgives good peace of mind and if it saves you the cost of a > major component failure - then it *IS* cheap! And, for once, I have a real question.....does the extended warranty also apply to bodywork (ie rustables)? How about those step things (they're extras, I believe) that seem to rot out in under 2 years? thanks, rd/nigel ps and how much was that D110, anyways? From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Aug 14 15:32:00 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 15:32:00 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: The Cost of Inflation In message <199508141924.OAA23082@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > Or is that the inflation of cost? [Bill's price comparison deleted] > I wouldn't mind if they did this and the other vendors went on their merry > way, but ABP & DAP etc will look at these prices and say, "hey, if RN can > boost their prices, we can surely raise ours". Do you actually know that RN is boosting it's prices because that can or are you making a wild, unsubstantiated poke at RN? Do you actually know what Rover's prices to their vendor are? > I can understand the cost of inflation, but it is currently in the single > digits. I could also understand the fluctuation of the pound/dollar > relationship, but it has been steady at $1.60/L. No it is not inflation. Land Rover decided to increase the price of their parts. In your example of the water pump, in LR's 4th quarter 1993 price list, the list price (before dealer discounts) was L72.10 or $119.68 (the pound being closer to $1.66 if you buy less than L10,000) (RN's price that you quoted was 119.50). In the 1st quarter 1995 price list that same water pump (RTC6328 btw) is L173.10 or $287.35 (RN price $225). Now LR has a worldwide export price list and each region has a different discount and the discounts vary by part. Another note on this one is that waterpumps have been impossible for vendors to buy recently from LR and just came back (so I assume that they were resourced). Without going in specifics, Land Rover has raised it's price on almost every part. So the vendors will have to reflect this or go out of business. So Bill before you make wild accusations about a vendor, find out what the facts are. Ben (who had just spent hours looking up this stuff for Bill to answer his questions, but Bill decided to post it to the list before I could get it typed in) ---------------- Benjamin Smith Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From "Walter C. Swain" Mon Aug 14 17:16:37 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 17:16:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Land Rover Cubby Box >>>>> Andre Posumentov writes: > I'm a newcomer to the mailing list, wondering whether anyone can help with > the following: > I have a 1985 101 'Defender' (UK spec) and would like to replace the middle > front seat with a console such as the one fitted to export model Land > Rovers. Where possible, the one fitted to current U.S. specification > vehicles. > Does anyone know of a reliable source from whom I might be able to track > down either the part no. that I need, or the item itself?? Try Rovers North in Westford, Vermont. Their address etc: Rovers North Box 61 Route 128 Westford, VT 05494 (802) 879-0032 Authorized Land Rover parts supplier Free catalog These folks are a bit different from some of the other LR parts places in the US, in that they do supply Land Rovers for export from the US, and hopefully are ready to do other export sales, even back to the UK. Good luck, Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA 1988 Range Rover From "T.F. Mills" Mon Aug 14 20:19:00 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 20:19:00 -0600 (MDT) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: LR web pages moving I am moving my web pages to a new location. They involve fourLand Rover documents: landrover.html camel.html lrsigs.html lrstamps.html at http://www.du.edu/~tomills/ Please update your links and bookmarks. Thanks. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA (NEW HOME PAGE LOCATION: please update your links and bookmarks) From Roger Sinasohn Mon Aug 14 19:38:51 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 19:38:51 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: RIP Jerry > The events of today reminded me not to put off those things that I really > want to do. I too am in the same boat. I missed out on seeing a true Grateful Dead concert. I will do my best, though, to make sure that Jerry, his music, and his good works won't be forgotten. I only didn't get to see a concert; there are kids who don't even realize what has been lost. I have been honoured to have been mistaken for Jerry Garcia on several occasions (I look a bit like him when my hair is long; I only wish I played like him). Those are precious compliments to me. I got on BART Wednesday evening, and sat down. An older gentleman across the aisle looked at me, and handed me the front page section of the paper, the one with the headline. As I read the articles, I began crying, and continued for most of the trip home. Even without being a true deadhead, Jerry's influence has shaped my life, sometimes without even my knowing it at the time. I will miss him, and I will mourn his passing for a very long time. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Aug 14 23:20:52 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:20:52 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: MISC. Jim sez... > There it was... *authentic recreation* #12 - a series one open top with > original dark green paint, silver wheels, and tan driver behind the RHD > wheel! Packaged in a blister pack - the vehicle sits atop an authentic > Matchbox collector box. Really neat! About $2.50/copy. They had eleven > of them in stock. Now they have none. / You can get them here at Central Tractor. Lots of BIG toys too, like Hi-Lift jacks, 5 gallon pails of 90Wt, mud flaps which make good floor mats, etc, etc. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From JDPUTNAM@aol.com Mon Aug 14 23:36:22 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 23:36:22 -0400 From: JDPUTNAM@aol.com Subject: Two simple questions Hello again, Once again I have 2-1/2 simple questions. 1) My '70 SIIa has pre 69 door latches on the 2 front doors. The back door apears to be the correct style or the SIII style ( the barrel fits through the hole in the skin and not in the handle area as on the early style ). Part one, is the late SIIa door latch different from the SIII style and if so, how? Part two, how do i replace the tumbler ( I have the newer style replacement tumbler )? 2) How do I water proof my distributer?. I have tried the vasaline trick and it does not help a bit. Thank in advance John Putnam Green and alum. '70 SIIa Beaverton, OR From David John Place Mon Aug 14 22:38:10 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 22:38:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: The Cost of Inflation I sure wouldn't buy any seals or bearings from any Land Rover dealer in Canada or the US. I have noticed that any I have taken off can be replaced in Timkin or similar at jobber prices that are half the dealer prices. I have a friend in the business and told me that for any seal or bearing he can measure he can supply a replacement so why go stock and pay through the nose. With the new silicon glues and the old standby aircraft gasket maker I don't often buy ordinary seals unless the ones I have are really necessary. I have purchased a set of hollow punches and sheet cork, rubber and synthetic gasket material and in most cases with a little time and patience I can duplicate most seals. Head gaskets unfortunately are another kettle of fish. Murseyside told me when I tried to order some locking tabs that they only use loctite now and that lock tabs were old technology. I rebuilt with Loctite and the rig is still together. The trick is to really clean the parts of oil before you put the Loctite on. For window wiper motors drop in to your local marine dealer. The chrome ones for boat windshields are just right for real safari doors. They have long shafts that reach through the door glass surround and have a nice finishing nut. They self park as well. Dave VE4PN From brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Mon Aug 14 20:36:00 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 20:36:00 -700 From: brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Subject: Hose advice Looking for some NET wisdom here....... OK all, how often should I replace my cooling system hoses? My car is three years old with 45,000 on the clock. I live in Phoenix, AZ (HOT). It's time to change thFrom Duncan Brown Tue Aug 15 07:01:01 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 07:01:01 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: radiator hoses Brian, > three years old with 45,000 on the clock. I live in Phoenix, AZ (HOT). > It's time to change the coolant (three years) so I'm wondering about the > hoses....... I guess it depends on how you use the vehicle and how big an impact it would ever be to stop and change a hose by the side of the road or out in the woods (by Murphy's Law, this would be on the hottest day of the year...) If that's the kind of adventure you live for, pack a spare set of hoses in one of the nooks or crannies of the vehicle, and drive the existing ones until they break. They'll probably go 100,000 miles easy. If you prefer your repairs to be under more controlled circumstances, then go ahead and replace them all when you replace the coolant, since you'll have drained the system anyway. I assume you're talking Range Rover (3 years old) so I don't know how much the hoses cost...but for a Land Rover you might be talking $30 for the main hoses, and just buy the heater hose by the foot instead of paying $40 for the official ones. $30 or so every three years doesn't seem too onerous. And then you toss the used-but-still-good hoses in a nook or cranny just in case. Duncan From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Aug 15 07:29:58 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 07:29:58 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Windscreen Glass, Heated & Prices Bill Maloney listed '94 and '95 prices for various Series parts, including $191.00 and $223.50 respectively for windscreen glass. Well, I just got my pair of heated windscreen glass slabs from Craddock's -- at less than $100.00 each; no VAT. (Purchase prompted by this list -- thanks!) The "export carriage charge" was L60, though. What is this? Shipping, or what? (Hope it flew Concorde for that rate!) Technical observations: Received two identical pieces, P/N 348428 -- Are they designed to be interchangeable left-to-right? The wires in the glass are nearly invisible, even up close! This is important to those of us who are righteous about our "Jurassic trucks" looking original. No switch, wiring, etc., was included. Is this a separate P/N? Can someone who has gotten "the whole kit" please send me specific details of the other items. I do not plan on installing any time soon, but since doing glass installation in door tops was so esay, anticipate no problems. Regards, Hank (1960 Ser II Long Station Wagon) From dotti@joburg.enet.dec.com Tue Aug 15 14:05:42 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:05:42 MET DST From: dotti@joburg.enet.dec.com Subject: Q: performance differences TDi - Discovery vs Defender 110 SW Are there performance differences between Discovery 5doors and Defender 110 SW country, both equipped with the same turbo diesel engine? real top speed? Thks, E. From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 15 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 15 Aug 95 08:10:09 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Bulkhead covers I tried to order a rubber bulkhead cover from RN to fit my 109 6cyl NADA wagon.They told me that they are not available for the 6cyl bulkhead.I really need to cover the bare metal with something so I can reduce the noise and heat inside. Does anyone have suggestions where I can get the cover to fit my wagon? Thanks for any advise I get. Benjamin G. Newman Olando Fl. 1966 109 NADA wagon 1962 Ser 111(rebuilt) 88 3 dr 1995 RR 4.0 SE From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 15 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 15 Aug 95 08:34:35 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Got my seat Just wanted to send a quick endorsement of BLRS Land Rover in the UK... they definitely have their act together. I ordered (by fax) a rear (inward facing) bench seat in Neptune Cloth to install in my U.S. Spec. D90. It arrived in less than 3 weeks! I need to make a few modifications to fit it to a D90... not the least of which is some spacers to set the back awat from the diagonal roll cage support brace. I am also going to put a backing on the seat since the backer board is still unfinished. But, overall, the cost was (delivered) about 1/3rd the cost of ordering a vinyl seat from Rovers North. If anyone is interested in inward facing seat(s) for a D90... I'll write up the installation in a week or so when I have time to fabricate the spacers and bolt it in. Cheers, R. P. Reid From "Tom Rowe" Tue Aug 15 08:24:55 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:24:55 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: radiator hoses > the hoses cost...but for a Land Rover you might be talking $30 for > the main hoses, and just buy the heater hose by the foot instead of > paying $40 for the official ones. $30 or so every three years > doesn't seem too onerous. And then you toss the used-but-still-good > hoses in a nook or cranny just in case. $30.00!!! Don't get them yet. I'll post the Gates PN tomorrow for at least the top hose, which set me back all of $3.xx (admitedly it was on sale for about 20% off). It's a perfect fit molded hose with just some trimming on each end needed. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Tue Aug 15 09:53:30 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:53:30 -0400 From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Subject: Possible RR, newer truck parts on the net. I just ran across a manhattan dealer who sells parts over the net. The URL is http://www.starweb.net/zumbach.html. One of the marques shown on the home page is LR. Since I'm looking for a bike carrier, I placed a request to the system. It seemed to just email it to the dealer (Zumbach Sports Cars). No reply as of yet. Someone called "realnet" raves about their service. Apparently they also have used LRs for sale. The form you fill in is quite odd. You basically tell them what you wnat, rather than looking at what they have. Anybody got any info on these guys? -Bob rvirzi@gte.com Think Globally. === +1(617)466-2881 === Act Locally! From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Aug 15 07:32:49 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 07:32:49 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Congrat's! I got my 109 from Potsdam too! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Congrat's! I got my 109 from Potsdam too! David, I too, got my LR from Potsdam NY! Bought it from Jack Geise. Mine is a 1970 109 IIa, and I drove it (sight unseen) from NY to Maine, then back through Vermont, across Canada, through Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, etc... etc... etc... all the way to my home in Mesa Arizona. (Near Phoenix) All in all, a WONDERFUL trip! Brought my 15 yr. old son with me, camped or spent nights with relatives all but 1 night. (NEEDED a shower!) I have dual heaters, and even with both running, it was a very cold ride, very drafty, these old beasts! We brought a personal "walkman" type stereo, and 2 headphones, and ONE tape. (I think I know EVERY word on the U2 "Auchtung Baby" tape!) 4500 miles (plus/minus, no speedometer or odometer working) with the only problem being a loose wire to the points inside the distributor. The only tools I brought: Hammer, crescent (adjustable) wrench, one of each type screwdriver, roll of electrical tape, pliers, and a pair of vice grips. Gutsy? you say? I'd say... more like stupid! But.... it worked! Oh yeah! and a pocket knife. All in all, with plane tickets, gas, food, hotel, fuel cap (lost in Michigan) it was far more expensive to drive it home verses shipping... but the memories and bonding time with my son were well worth the price! He's caught the LR fever too! Wants a D-90, and is even saving his $ for it. (Has around $200 so far.) Anyone want to contribute? ;-) Jack, if you're there... "hi" Still loving the 109! Take care... Dave (road trip) Brown. #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Aug 15 10:52:02 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:52:02 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Off we go... Greetings- don't know if this got out yesterday. I've included email address this time. 500 miles north into the "wild country" of upstate New York, to fetch my first Rover, a SIII swb, currently owned by Guy Arnold. I'm driving up with my Honda, a tankful of rice, a lot of tools, and last but not least, my friend Nancy (god bless her). Spares for the trip back, plus a LR key fob, are being sent to Guy's house in Potsdam. We'll be caravanning back, since towing isn't an option (the Landy can do the job, but I've been told not to do it) We plan on camping at least one night on the way back, as well as taking the scenic route along Lake Ontario. All this should add up to at least a mild adventure, but not totally Roveresque since there won't be any lions, rhinos, or off-road driving involved (Honda's ground clearance is about two inches). By the way, Sandy and Dixon, mebership checks are in zee mail. Thanks everybody who pitched in with helpful advice, and not so helpful advice too. Cheers David ____________ David Bobeck / /========\ \ Washington DC I   I dbobeck@ushmm.org I I`------'I I 202-488-6588 d^H I D I ^Hb 72 SIII swb I I I I - I can see the head! I==I========I==I \___O____/   ^E^R^T^Y ^O^P^P ^H^G^F^D^A^C^B^B From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Tue Aug 15 09:05 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 09:05 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Re: Hose advice >OK all, how often should I replace my cooling system hoses? My car is >three years old with 45,000 on the clock. I live in Phoenix, AZ (HOT). >It's time to change the coolant (three years) so I'm wondering about the >hoses....... Replace them. They are cheap insurance. I bought my 72 SIII in March, and got around to changing the hoses a couple of weeks ago. The top hose looked fine, but I was changing the coolant anyway. The intermediate hose was interesting. It had *never* been changed. At least it looked like it, and there is no record of it in the PO's pile of receipts. It only has 83,000 miles on it, but it lived all its life in Phoenix. It had several cracks, some of which were almost all the way through. I believe I know just how long a radiator hose will last. If you plan on keeping you Land Rover forever, I would change the coolant every year. Especially with one of those newfangled aluminum engines. James Howard jhoward@argus.lowell.edu 1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim" Flagstaff, Arizona, USA From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Aug 15 09:39:01 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 09:39:01 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: D90 tyres While in Boston last week I came across a newish D90 that had 265/75R16 BF Goodrich All Terrains on all five. It looked to have come from the dealer with them (car looked new, spare never been on road, high number on rear plate) It was my understanding that all US spec D90s came with 265/75R16 B F Goodrich Mud Terrains. Am i mistaking? Are the Mud terrains for the west & all terrains for the east? TeriAnn From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 15 95 Aug EDT 1913 Date: 15 Aug 95 13:11:26 EDT From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Re: Early (US spec) Range Rover details FROM: Cliff Kavanaugh, 76262,1154 TO: INTERNET:lenagham@bachman.com, INTERNET:lenagham@bachman.com DATE: 8/15/95 1:00 PM Re: Copy of: Re: Early (US spec) Range Rover details Mike, I just returned from the dealer who serviced my EFI light problem. You were right the computer said faulty water temp sensor. The problem was a dirty contact. Seems to be resolved. The mechanic took me under the chassis and pointed out: gap in right rear suspension bushing leaky power steering box front wheel baring seals leaky power steering pump switches for electric seats are faulty. It is as if he read your message before hand. I have one to add to the list for you: a fiber optic cable to the speedometer has worked loose and is not illuminating the needle-seems to be a common problem as well. The "metal foot steps/running boards" are beginning to rust and the powder seal is coming off, do you know of where/how one might go about refurbishing those powder coated steps? Is it something that can be done by some local business? The Dealer had a book that indicated that there were 3,427 RR sales for 1988. Also the 1988 was code named "Messenger." The book also mentioned a style (like mine) with interior wood trim and door pulls, leather seats ,A/C and sunroof.-It was called the Vogue. Cool Huh? Thank you for your valuable help. I'll watch those problem areas you mentioned. Cheers Cliff >. From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 15 95 Aug EDT 1913 Date: 15 Aug 95 13:12:19 EDT From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Re: EFI Warning Light FROM: Cliff Kavanaugh, 76262,1154 TO: INTERNET:lenagham@bachman.com, INTERNET:lenagham@bachman.com DATE: 8/15/95 1:12 PM Re: Copy of: Re: EFI Warning Light Mike, The blue book on my 1988 Range Rover was $14,000. Minus $2250-$2500 for excess milage(113,400). I stumbled on it in the used car portion of a new car dealer who got it from a used car dealer who took it in trade for a used Mercedes. The sales manager had been driving it and it had not been placed into inventory when I took for $10,300 as is. Had a LR/RR mechanic look it over today and it is in great condition except for the same problem areas you mentioned previously. I feel confident that I got a good deal-but I should have since I took the risk buyingWhat I most proud of is I got it with 8.25% financing X48mos vs 12.5%x36 months From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 15 95 Aug EDT 1913 Date: 15 Aug 95 13:19:29 EDT From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: Classified I saw the following ad in the Richmond VA Times Dispatch: LR-"72 SWB $7,500./Best Offer 804-979-7937. I also noticed the Richmond VA Land Rover dealer 804-378-8018 has three 1992 RRs from$22,000-$26,000. Cheers Cliff From elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Tue Aug 15 12:24:08 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:24:08 -0500 From: elsmain!wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (William Maloney) Subject: Re: Speedo Calibration Numbers (is that for swimsuits?) Duncan helped out: >All of my Series II speedometers have the number "1504"...15" wheels That sounds about right. What I have seen so far: 109 metric, 16" wheels, 880 (x 1.61 = 1417 in miles) 88 metric, 15" wheels, 940 (x 1.61 = 1513 in miles) 109 miles, 16" wheels, 1408 (Steve Denis's 109) 88 miles, 15" wheels, 1504 (Duncan's 88) 88 miles, 15" wheels, 1536 (My old broken speedometer) Thanks Duncan and to Steve Denis for explaining the calibration numbers to me. It seems as though the 88 speedos for 15" wheels run from 1504 to 1536 (revs per mile?) and the 109s with 7.50x16s run from 1408 to 1417. If anyone else has a moment and can check their 109 speedo in miles, I'd appreciate it. It's a 4 digit number on the face usually towards the bottom of the dial. I'd just like to get a couple of other figures before I send my 88 speedo in for repair and conversion to 16" wheel specs. Thanks, Bill wmaloney@els004.attmail.com (Duncan, the Speedo Swimsuit #s are 38, 24, 36. 8-o) >. From David Rosenbaum Tue Aug 15 10:30:23 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:30:23 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: D90 tyres On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > While in Boston last week I came across a newish D90 that had 265/75R16 BF [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > for the east? > TeriAnn Dear TeriAnn '94 D90s came with BFG Mud Terrains; and 95s with BFG All Terrains. Switch was supposedly made because the All Terrains are smoother on paved roads... David Rosenbaum '94 D90 [still unnamed.....] From Leland J Roys Tue Aug 15 10:38:41 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:38:41 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: D-90 Tires To TeriAnne, You were not seeing things with the D-90 tires. Land-Rover started putting the non mud tires on the def-90s, I think starting mid way in 1995. I asked the dealer about this and he stated that the mud tires were not practical for every day driving and made to much noise. Well, this may be true, but I bought my def-90 for real off-road and not to drive to the mall and back, If I bought a def-90 with the non mud tires I would make the dealer switch them before I took the truck home. Leland J. Roys Cupertino, California '94 Defender 90 (Red) roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com From "Sean Leviseur" Tue Aug 15 18:50:15 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:50:15 +0100 (BST) From: "Sean Leviseur" Subject: Re: -No Subject- I have an ex-MOD series III 109 Safari that was winterised by the MOD. As far as I can see all they did was move the battery under the drivers seat, and add an extra heater unit that replaces the centre seat on the front row. The heater is roughly an 18" cube with a large blower fitted to the front. It is feed by a 1/2" pipe, via an internal valve, from the block and is entirely seperate from the normal series III heater that is still there. The heater has 4 2" diameter tubes leading to vents over the front side windows and windscreen. There is an electric heater element in the unit as well - but we never got that to work. We used this quite happily in the Alps all last winter and except for burns from a brass nut on the unit it worked very well!! sean From "Doug Carmean" Tue Aug 15 10:48:22 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 10:48:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Doug Carmean" Subject: A Newbie Leaves the Pavement (long) I participated in one of the off road clinics that the local LR dealer held this weekend and thought I'd pass along the experience. The clinic was held at a very large farm about 20 miles west of Portland. This particular weekend, there was a steeple chase event happening as part of the Waverly Country days. We showed up about half and hour before the clinic was to start. We were whisked off to the special LR parking area where there were about 35 various LRs parked. The participants were mostly RRs and Discos, I'd say maybe 20 RRs and 15 Discos. There were also two newer Defenders and one new 110 there. I was the only one with a 4.0 SE. I was very pleased to see two Series III 88's there along with two older Series II(?) 109s. One of the 109s had a military body with a diesel RR engine. I was most impressed by the snorkel that this individual had cooked up for his pride and joy. The snorkel exited the passenger side of the engine compartment and ran along the side of the windshield to the roof line. A very impressive looking beast indeed! The clinic itself consisted of a local expert (Doug Shirley(?)) giving a short, 10 minute talk on some of the principles of off road driving. He pointed out the high & low points of the RRs and the Discos. Then, a guy from LR North America gave a short talk about the diff's and shifting into low. The 4.0 SE has an H shaped shifter, where you keep it on the left side of the H for normal driving, and on the right side for off road. I dropped the thing into Low-Drive on the right side of the H, and we were off. The Disco in front of me had some locking the diffs, but after some fiddling by the local expert, she was rolling also. The course started with some moderate hills that ran through a pasture area. After about a mile we came to a steep embankment that led up to a road along a ridge. Watching the first Disco pull up the embankment and hang the very sharp left onto the ridge got my hear beating. While this looked hairy, it turned out to be cakewalk for the RR. However, while driving along the ridge, one of the Discos put a tire off and went sliding down the embankment. It was with some amusement that I found out that the Disco had been purchased just the day before. After gathering the appropriate number of on-lookers, and a short discussion, the local expert hopped in the Disco, drove it the rest of the way down the embankment, and then back up. A pretty impressive maneuver. We continued to a small wooded section where we navigated through some very tight areas with only inches on either side. The ground was pretty muddy, and was full of downed logs. I watched as the Disco in front of me powered over one of the larger logs. The wheels were spinning pretty good, and the lady got the Disco moving sideways, but managed to pull over in good shape. I approached the same log and the RR's traction control system came on. The traction control announced its presence with a loud beep and a message in the Information Display that read "Traction Control". There were some loud clicking sounds from underneath the dash area that sounded quite a bit like relays tripping very quickly. We pulled over the log without any problem, and without any wheels slipping. Next was a stream crossing. The convoy headed down a fairly steep section that led to the stream. We had to stop at this point where the lady in the Disco ahead let her kids out of the car. They looked pretty freaked out by the whole thing. The stream seemed to be ~3 feet deep, and was a total non-event for everyone. It was kind of cool to plow through the water. We headed off to another open area where we all got out of our LRs and the local expert instructed on the next set of obstacles. The first was a ditch traversal that he demonstrated in a Disco. It was quite impressive to watch this thing navigate a pretty deep ditch with just 3 wheels touching the ground. He headed up a steep hill that had some more logs setup part way up the hill. Next came the highlight of the course: a 12-foot 'cliff'. I was shocked to watch the Disco plunge off the cliff, back wheels in the air, and come to rest serenely at the bottom. This time, I followed a LWB RR over the course. The guy in front of me crunched his undertray hard navigating the ditch. This caused me to take a real whimpy section of the ditch to make sure I didn't damage my beauty. With the exception of the minor crunch, both RRs navigated the ditch effortlessly. It was pretty cool to watch the RR drop a wheel into the ditch, looking a lot like somebody sticking their toe into a pit, feeling for the bottom. The uphill section with the logs was another no-brainer. I watched the other RR plunge off the cliff and come out just fine. I pulled up the the edge, and asked meekly asked one of the spotters if he was sure that my beast could handle the cliff. After dropping it into the downhill Low setting, we plunged off the cliff. It was very exciting, but the RR handled this feat without even grunting. One of the spectators said that the 4.0 SE looked cleaner going over the cliff than the older LWB RR. We got out and watched the other LRs navigate the little obstacle course. The Series III 88's took the cliff like it was a parking lot speed bump. The Defenders also looked quite very good, but didn't have the 'no sweat' look of the Series III. It was a blast to watch the Discos get their rear wheels up in the air and then land gently on the bottom. Pretty impressive show. I would like to have seen a Jeep Cherokee or an Ford Explorer do this little section of the course. The course continued with some more ups, downs, and tight bits. It must have been about 5 miles long, and took us maybe 1.5 hours to navigate through the whole thing. The LR people provided food and drinks after the little event. The guy from LR North America came by and showed me some of the little known secrets of the 4.0 SE. He also confirmed that LR is going to import the 4.6 HSE to the States later this year. This was a very enjoyable experience, and has made me look at RRs in a whole different light. My luxo-cruiser is definitely a very capable off road vehicle. I highly recommend attending any similar events that might be held near you. Doug Carmean 1995 RR 4.0SE - MTYDOG dcarmean@ichips.intel.com From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Tue Aug 15 10:37:52 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:37:52 PDT From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: D90 tyres To many tire noise complaints from '94 D90 yuppie owners/potential buyers/ magazine reviews/etc. 95's come standard with All Terrains, Mud Terrains are optional. I've heard this the real reason for LR pulling the D90 off the market. BMW is worried the new kindler/gentler/yuppified D90 will start eating into their 325i Convertible market:-) -Rick '94 D90 >From LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com Tue Aug 15 10:07:25 1995 >Return-Path: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] >Mud Terrains. Am i mistaking? Are the Mud terrains for the west & all terrains >for the east? >TeriAnn ----- End Included Message ----- Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From Duncan Brown Tue Aug 15 13:59:34 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:59:34 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Classified Cliff, > I saw the following ad in the Richmond VA Times Dispatch: LR-"72 SWB > $7,500./Best Offer 804-979-7937. That phone number is in Charlottesville (I live 5 minutes North of Charlottesville.) It sounds like the one I've seen sitting in a parking lot with a for sale sign, though I believe he was asking $8000 or $8500 at the time. It had a brand new paint job. I don't know about you, but I'm instantly suspicious of a Land Rover with a new paint job. Either he's hiding something...or he had confused priorities- paint is the VERY LAST thing you do to a Land Rover, once every single mechanical part is perfect! (Well, that's the rumor anyway, I've never known anyone who reached that point, heh heh heh...) Duncan From Leland J Roys Tue Aug 15 11:13:12 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 11:13:12 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: 1995 Def-90 To TeriAnne, More info on the Def-90. I also noticed that the 1995 Def-90s have changed in other ways from my 1994 Def-90. Differences I noticed: 1. Non mud tires (smaller tires) than the 1994 version. 2. Round lights in the back and larger turn signal lamps in the front. 3. A door stop mechanism (to hold the door in the open position). 4. Fabric padding under the driver and passenger seat (I am not to sure if this is new or mine was missing an option in '94) The only change I wish I had on the '94 is the door stop, my doors are constantly whacking my ass when I try to reach back in the truck! (must be spring loaded or something), I don't like the smaller tires or the round lights. Leland J. Roys Cupertino, California '94 Defender 90 (Red) roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com From David Rosenbaum Tue Aug 15 11:48:38 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:48:38 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: 1995 Def-90 On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Leland J Roys wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > To TeriAnne, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > be spring loaded or something), I don't like the smaller tires or the > round lights. Dear Leland: The padding under the seats is new for '95, probably part of the "increased sound-proofing" added this year. As a fellow D90 owner, do you think that such a thin pad would make any difference? ................. ......I can't hear you David Rosenbaum '94 D90 From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Aug 15 14:39:05 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:39:05 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Off we go... 1972 Series III Land-Rover Short-Wheel Base /^--^--^--^\ /^--^--^--^\ /~~~~~~~~\ ~~~~~||~~~~~ Q     O Q  / || \  O \----------/ \-/!!!!!!!!\-/ d^G  ^A  ^Gb d~~~~^A^A^A^A~~~~b  ______  {O}^A^A^A^A^A^A{O} ==== ^A^A \=====O==/ ===O======^P __________________________________________ How 'bout that!!! -DaveB. dbobeck@ushmm.org Washington DC USA From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Aug 15 12:25:12 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:25:12 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Possible RR, newer truck parts on the net. Bob Virzi wrote: > I just ran across a manhattan dealer who sells parts over the net. The URL > is http://www.starweb.net/zumbach.html. I also ran across them the other day. > Someone called "realnet" raves about their service. Apparently they also > have used LRs for sale. The form you fill in is quite odd. You basically > tell them what you wnat, rather than looking at what they have. It is very odd that a business won't let you brouse through what they have for sale (They only entertain specific requests). And that they require you to give your name, address, phone number, etc. before they will tell you anything feels a bit odd to me. So they loose a potential customer. There are other vendors. At least they don't ask for your credit card number up front. Ben ---------------- Benjamin Smith Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake bens@vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Leland J Roys Tue Aug 15 15:36:18 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 15:36:18 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Last of the defenders? Is it true that 1995 is the last year for Def-90s? The reason I ask is that I noticed the local Land Rover dealership is really ramping up on Def-90s When I bought mine 4+ months ago, they only had one 1994 red one, now they have 4 brand new Defender-90s 3 green and one red. Does this mean they are getting rid of the last of them, or are they going to continue to make them? Leland J. Roys Cupertino, California '94 Defender 90 (Red) roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Aug 15 17:18:10 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 17:18:10 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Last of the defenders? In message <199508152335.SAA25086@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > Is it true that 1995 is the last year for Def-90s? According to the current statements by Land Rover, there will be no 1996 US Spec. Defender 90. They are currently making a batch of '95 D90 US Spec hardtops and that production will end in December 1995. Stated reason for ending the D90 in the US is that it would cost too much to change the D90 to pass US DOT laws to meet 1996 regulations. Origionally LR said that thre would only be 3000 US D90s, and based on 1994 sales (~1500), and assuming that 1995 sales are similar, that would come to about 3000. Rumor has it that US spec D-90s will be sold in the UK and France next year. LRW reported that 1998 Defenders will meet US DOT spec. (Whether they will be imported to the US then is anyone's guess) Rumor also has it that there will be no 1996 Jeep Wrangler either. Ben ---------------- Benjamin Smith Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Wolfhound9@aol.com Tue Aug 15 20:19:29 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:19:29 -0400 From: Wolfhound9@aol.com Subject: Re: #2(2) The Land Rover Owne... As a new owner of a Disco, could anyone tell me if it is possible to purchase a heavy type of mat designed for the cargo area with the seats folded up. All I seem to locate are mats for behind the back seats. The man at British Pacific suggested that I try to find a source in England. Any information appreciated! Karen Frederick (wolfhound9@aol.com) From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 15 95 Aug EDT 1921 Date: 15 Aug 95 21:22:50 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Speedometers Bill Maloney the speedometer for a Land rover with 7.50 x 16 tyres is 1400 revs per mile, for a 600 / 650 tyre it is 1500 revs per mile. This is worked on the rolling radius of the tyre, not on the wheel rim size, The michelin tyre data book lists the outside dia as below size outside dia loaded radius revs per mile 7.50 x 16 802 mm 31.6 in 372 mm 14.6 in 652 7.00 x 16 784 mm 30.9 in 365 mm 14.4 in 671 6.50 x 16 .742 mm 29.2 in 345 mm 13.6 in 707 205 x 16 736 mm 29 in 337 mm 13.3 in 721 7.50 x 15 772 mm 30.4 in 346 mm 13.6 in 697 6.70 x 15 712 mm 28 in 331 mm 13 in 733 Hope this is of some use Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From DieselBobI@aol.com Tue Aug 15 22:10:04 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:10:04 -0400 From: DieselBobI@aol.com Subject: Re: #2(2) The Land Rover Owne... on a different note, ROAV has a work weekend planned for Penlan Farm this weekend. Looks like we might have an unwelcome visitor by the name of FELIX !!!!! seems that in traditional manner rain will be falling. waves of 15-20 ft. swells, 85-105 mi. gusts, and a storm surge of 5-8 ft. Boy am i gonna have apples everywhere From "Paul M. Brodie usssbkpy@ibmmail.com" Tue Aug 15 22:15:34 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:15:34 EDT From: "Paul M. Brodie usssbkpy@ibmmail.com" Subject: D90 for Sale ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Russell U Wilson Tue Aug 15 22:17:44 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:17:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Re: Last of the defenders? I had to throw in my two cents worth of Jeep knowledge on the 96 Jeep thing. There will be a very limited number of 96 Jeep Wranglers made. They will be 96 model year vehicles on paper only there will be ZERO changes from 95. The 96 models will have a short life span as the "all new" 97 Wranglers with the 16" wheels and round headlights will be brought out in the early summer/late spring of 97. Thats it as far as I know... cheers Russ From David Rosenbaum Tue Aug 15 19:25:55 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:25:55 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: Last of the defenders? On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Leland J Roys wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Is it true that 1995 is the last year for Def-90s? The reason I ask is that [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > Cupertino, California > '94 Defender 90 (Red) > roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com '95 is the last year for LRNA D90's. Previously in the digest it has been reported that '95 hardtops will be introduced this fall in small numbers and that their sale will continue into '96, but as the '95 model. The Seattle LR dealership simply said that 95 was the last year....... The last time I drove by the Seattle dealer, there were *no* D90s out front: the display area was occupied by Discoverys and Range Rovers David Rosenbaum From David John Place Tue Aug 15 22:02:40 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:02:40 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Two simple questions For the distributor, put a rubber surgical glove over the whole thing. Each finger gets one lead and the thumb or other finger the centre wire. Wrap the fingers with catgut or nylon string where they go through and put a drop of silicone sealant on each finger after the wire is through and you will be totally waterproof. For the coil, use a condom. I have the real water proof kit and it is nothing more than I described for about $35.00. Dave VE4PN From David John Place Tue Aug 15 22:05:49 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:05:49 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Hose advice Hoses go from the inside out. If they feel soft to the squeeze, replace them. The bottom hose should have a wire inside so it won't collapse with the suction from the pump so it will be harder to check. Dave VE4PN From David John Place Tue Aug 15 22:33:14 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:33:14 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: seal number Does anyone know the seal numbers in an American (N. American that is!) product for the bull nose crank shaft seal. This is the one on the chain house. I would like to replace it but don't want to pull the old one till I get a new seal and I have misplaced the list of seals I keep. Dave VE4PN From David John Place Tue Aug 15 23:52:01 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:52:01 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: more seal numbers I can't seem to find the FAQ site. Did it move? I need the numbers for the real axle seals as well and I couldn't find them. I did find some great new Land Rover sites if anyone is surfing the net. Try the mother of all BBS. It has some good British Car stuff. Dave VE4PN From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Aug 16 00:57:30 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 00:57:30 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Two simple questions John Putnam asks... > 2) How do I water proof my distributer?. I have tried the vasaline trick > and it does not help a bit. / Someone said something about using a rubber glove over the cap... Don't know how well it works, but it probably looks real funky! I've wondered about using a silicone waterproofing spray.. might be worth a try. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From rmodica@east.pima.edu Tue Aug 15 22:02:14 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:02:14 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: AZ LRO & models Just returned to the heat of Tucson after five days in cool San Diego where we saw numerous RR and Discos, but got nary a wave from any. Did gatch a glimpse of a red SIII pickup getting off Sports Arena Blvd. Anyone own up to being a surfing LRO? In my absence Robin posted his model sale and everything was snatched up, but I did get to ToysRUs and found the SI. Cute. Didn't see it mentioned but Toys R Us also has a Micro Machines set #37 called Trail Trackers that has a brown over green SIII 109. They had another 109 a few years ago in blue. With all the model talk I haven't seen any references to Triple C Motor Accessories. They have the Dinky Dy9-BFrom "Bobeck, David R." Wed Aug 16 08:38:14 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 08:38:14 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: graphics Sorry, I'll have make a new one, obviously my charachters got scrambled. Too bad, i worked on it for hours.... From Anthony Verriello Wed Aug 16 09:27:01 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:27:01 -0400 From: Anthony Verriello Subject: Tires, dealers and yuppies Forgive the soapbox but: ALL RIGHT FOLKS lets stop the yuppie bashing. Some yuppies are enthusiasts that like interiors that can be hosed out and tires that scream and doors that rattle and wind noise and bad gas mileage and all the other parts of owning a true LR. Anyone who buys a Defender for status and is willing to "compromise" is missing the point. And no, I never watch 90210....I had mine before they had theirs anyway. Robert, >>>I just ran across a manhattan dealer who sells parts over the net. The URL >>>is http://www.starweb.net/zumbach.html. One of the marques shown on the Zumbach is the only rover dealer in manhattan. When I was pricing my 94 D90 they seemed to have competative prices. They were even dealing on Discos. However I did not buy my 90 there...mostly because of location...I work in manhattan but found an excellent dealer near my house on Long Island. What amazes me about Zumbach is that they have many makes of vehicle under one roof. I had heard that LR dealers had to be exclusively LR. Can anyone verify this. Dont have any first hand experience with them...however it would appear (I waited 45 min for a salesperson) they do volume. TeriAnn, >>> While in Boston last week I came across a newish D90 that had 265/75R16 BF Mud terrains were standard on 94 D90's. LR started shipping the 95's with all terrains. One of the reasons was decreased road noise...personally I like the road noise and my Muds. verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com +-+--+-@ |_|_/|__\__ | _ |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite, =(_)=+==(_)' petrol not sandwiches) '94 black NAS D90 (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole) From Andrew Grafton Wed Aug 16 15:06:13 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 15:06:13 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Michelin XCLs Further to the Michelin XCL thread... I also heard that XCL's are to be discontinued and replaced with the 'new' Michelin offroad tyre. No details and can't confirm it though. Re : where to get them - there seems to be no shortage of supply from ex-military sources. The tyres will have been used (by the Army, so it's by no means ideal...) but are cheap. There would appear to be a lot of 'snow' XCLs around, which have metal studs in the treadblocks. Rumour has it that you can rip these out and end up with a serviceable tyre at low cost. I bought twelve 7.50R16 XCLs three weeks ago, ex-army, 7 virtually unused and 5 about half worn. No problems so far with any of them (all have been used). Don't know if this is any help. All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk 1 2 3 From "John C. White III" Wed Aug 16 07:18:57 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 07:18:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Tires, dealers and yuppies Land Rover dealers don't seem to be required to carry only Land Rovers, at least not in the U.S. All the ones I've seen though seem to cater to the high-end market. I bought mine at a LR/Jaguar/Rolls Royce dealership. Cheers! John '95 Disco five-speed San Francisco, California On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Anthony Verriello wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Forgive the soapbox but: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 42 lines)] > =(_)=+==(_)' petrol not sandwiches) > '94 black NAS D90 > (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole) From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Aug 16 07:30:55 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 07:30:55 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: D90 tyres FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: D90 tyres Teri Ann, You saw a '95 model. At my local dealer (Phoenix) they have some used '94's and new '95's and that's the first thing that jumps out at you. The MT tyres are by far more "beefy" looking, and no doubt better for most trails. I believe the LRNA people are yielding to the desires of the "yuppies", as they have in numerous things. From a business standpoint, I guess you do have to give them what they want. But for us "purists".... Away with all the frills!!! Give me the ole metal dash, crumple zones on "the other guy's car", best trail tyres, etc... Other differences that I've noticed ('94 vs. '95): '94 has square tail lights, front turn indicators on the bumper. '95 has larger front "wing" signal lamps, and round tail lights. (And AT tyres.) From what I've seen... I'll take the round lights and change the tyres on the '95. Er... that is... if I had the option of choosing. But as it is, I can only afford to drive by after closing, and dream. Cheers! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 13 20:45:38 1995 Date: Sun, 13 Aug 95 20:45:38 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Windscreen Glass, Heated & Prices Glad to read that you got your heated screens. The screens are interchangeable according to the parts book. The full kit (601766) (switches, etc.) is no longer available. The principal parts in addition to the screens are: 2 off switches 55778 1 off switch panel 348689 2 switch labels 560408/9 plate 348542 (haven't a clue what this is for! 1 off relay(?) 142169 1 off wiring loom 555780 I haven't fitted mine yet, but will post an account. BTW still having difficulties picking up mail! ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk HAWTEC Tel: 01905 723200 Haswell House Fax: 01905 613338 St. Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW From "Richard Dodd" Wed Aug 16 09:54:13 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 09:54:13 -0600 (CST) From: "Richard Dodd" Subject: selling 109" Station Wagon I am sadly forced to sell my 1962 series 2a 109" 5 door station wagon. In excellent condition with about 15K miles on a U.K. reconditioned 2.25l engine, overdrive, carpets, re-upholstered, extra fuel tank under passenger seat, white roof, poppy red body. Price $12K. Land-rover is in the San Francisco Bay area. Telephone enquiries (510) 2340731 at home, or (510) 2154217 at work. Richard Dodd dodd@insect.berkeley.edu From matts@caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Wed Aug 16 10:55:09 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 10:55:09 -0700 From: matts@caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Early (US spec) Range Rover details My '88 RR also had the worked-loose speedo illuminator problem, as well as some of the other problems you mentioned. One comment about the leaking power steering pump: My mechanic advised me to just keep topping off the power steering fluid and not worry about the leak. I did this for a few months, and then one day during a mountain snow storm, while my wife was driving it, the pully on the front of the pump sheared right off! I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether the leak and the subsequent self-destruction were related, but considering the inconvenience of trying to get a trailer tow in a snow storm, I sure wish I'd replaced it when the leak was noticed. -Matt From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Wed Aug 16 11:05:48 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 11:05:48 PDT From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Yuppie Bashing Please don't take it personally. I was born and raised a yuppie and too, have lived through the insults and cruel stares of strangers. Lately though, I wake up and start thinking of HD coil springs, winches, snorkels, skid plates and Camel Trophy type events and I feel the need to rebel against my upbringing. Recently converted to redneck, I make myself feel better about my new calling by trashing my past. Yesterday, I was feeling particularly perturbed about the effort I'm going to have to call forth to get some decent skid plates (looks like fabrication or UK) when TeriAnn's D90 tire mail crossed my path. Yuppies just got caught in my frustration with LRNA. Despite LRNA efforts to build and capitalize on the Camel Trophy and Best 4x4xFar off road image they don't seriously support such individual usage. Take a simple test. Walk in to you LR dealer and tell them you are looking for air conditioning, carpeting, and a CD changer for your D90. You'd be able to have everything installed by the end of a week. Go in and ask for a deep water fording kit, differential protection plates, and heavy duty springs to support a winch and you get shown the door. On the way out you get to pass by all those Camel Trophy posters (even video in some dealers) showing off deep water fording, protection plates, heavy duty winches, etc.... -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From Easton Trevor Wed Aug 16 15:33:00 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 15:33:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Choke cable Dave Place was looking for a choke cable with the switch for a light, I posted you a note, Dave, but saw no reply. If you want it, I've found it. Let me know. Trevor Easton, Grimsby, Ontario From sac4@cornell.edu (Stephen A. Church) Wed Aug 16 16:12:12 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 16:12:12 -0400 From: sac4@cornell.edu (Stephen A. Church) Subject: Questions on Purchasing a Defender Hi all! I'm new to the list and I must admit, I am not a Land Rover owner. (I have no objections to Land Rovers, besides their price, but if I keep saving, maybe one day...:-) I do own a British car, though, if it helps. It's a 1975 Triumph Spitfire and I've been on the british-cars list for a while. Anyway, I have a friend (really, if it was me I'd say so ;-) who is seriously considering ordering a new Defender 90. What should he know before he signs anything? Any problems finding aftermarket parts? (I saw Rick Larson's message which leads me to believe the dealers aren't real supportive of Land Rover off-road enthusiasts.) One benefit of owning a 'mericun off-roader (a Jeep Wrangler) -- not that the dealers are real supportive, but there's lots of aftermarket stuff. Back to the issue at hand, what options should he consider? He'll probably be doing some off-roading, but nothing too intense (keep in mind we live in upstate New York). How about servicing the Defender? He probably won't do much of that himself, and the nearest dealer is approx. 2 hours away. Can local mechanics or national chains handle the work? Would you trust them with it? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Feel free to e-mail me directly in case I'm duplicating any recent postings that I may have missed. Thanks in advance! Steve Church 1975 Triumph Spitfire -> * BRITISH * 1987 Jeep Wrangler -> * 4x4 * (Well, it was worth a shot! :-) From Leland J Roys Wed Aug 16 13:09:39 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 13:09:39 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Mr. Yuppie Re: Yuppie Bashing I guess I started the whole yuppie bashing by asking why anyone would want a Def-90 with the non mud tires. Well all my friends say I am the biggest (not in size) yuppie they know, because who else but a yuppie would spend $30,000 on a truck that(as my girlfriend says) has no door panels, no carpet, no leather seats, looks like it has not been completed by the factory, and then take it out and smear mud all over it.... I was also the first "yuppie" to buy (my now sold for Def-90) Toyota-4runner with all leather interior, all options yuppie-mobile and take it directly to Baja (1 week after purchase) only to get it stuck in the sand by the ocean and fill with mud (whole front end sank past the headlights), towed out and brought back to U.S. with major damage (and I still did not have the license plates yet). So I figured I would not feel so bad about messing up a Def-90 since all that poo-poo leather stuff is missing. Leland J. Roys Cupertino, California '94 Defender 90 (Red) roys@hpkel13.cup.hp.com From Robert Watson (CNA) Wed Aug 16 14:44:52 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 14:44:52 TZ From: Robert Watson (CNA) Subject: Re: Yuppie Bashing I'm still trying to "de-yuppify" my Disco, as well. Which brings me to the question, where can you get skid plates and those "Camel Trophy" roof racks? (I think I can wait a while longer on the snorkel.) The 12-14" "lift" to clear the sun roof is not very common. -- Bob Watson (closet yuppie) ---------- | From: Rick Larson | To: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] | To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net | ...installed by the end of a week. Go in and ask for a deep water fording kit, | differential protection plates, and heavy duty springs to support a winch and | you get shown the door. On the way out you get to pass by all those Camel [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] | protection plates, heavy duty winches, etc.... | -Rick From David John Place Wed Aug 16 17:50:55 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 17:50:55 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Mind Blowing Land Rover If you want to really blow your minds, look on page 14 of the new Popular Science. It shows a SciFi 101 Forward Control of wheich 31 were built. It is powered by 180 HP 3.5 V8. It is very futuristic but personally I like my IIA 88 a lot more. Dave VE4PN From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Wed Aug 16 16:08:38 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 16:08:38 PDT From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Questions on Purchasing a Defender >(I saw Rick Larson's message which leads me to believe >the dealers aren't real supportive of Land Rover off-road enthusiasts.) This is more of Land Rovers North America corporate complaint. I've found some very knowledgable and 4x4 enthusiastic people at the dealerships I've delt with. Just can't comprehend why things like the D90/D110 military tow rings aren't listed as options in North America. Why it takes months of looking to find that Genuine LR heavy duty front springs are available to hold my winch up, etc. What other goodies am I missing out on? As for advise to your friend. Just buy one. Best ( and most ) money I've ever spent. He'll never be able to justify a D90 purchase by reasoning. Cut the best deal you can on the D90 the best fits what he thinks a D90 should be option wise. -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From BobandSueB@aol.com Wed Aug 16 21:20:30 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:20:30 -0400 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: LROA/NA General Meeting Steve Hill, President of LROA has asked me to make this announcement: There will be a meeting of the Land Rover Owners Assoc., North America on Sunday, September 17, 1995. The location and time will be announced at a later date, but should be in the Davis/Sacramento, CA area. The subject of the meeting is Publication of the Aluminum Workhorse All members are invited to attend. Cheers, Sue Bernard From "John C. White III" Wed Aug 16 20:14:42 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:14:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Questions on Purchasing a Defender Steve, The reason the dealers are not very supportive of using a new vehicle off road is because the banks would bark at them for it. The banks want to protect their equity. Taking to the back country is too likely to cause damage. As for servicing a Rover that's still on warranty, I'd be surprised if Land Rover North America authorized any garages that weren't also dealers. LRs are just too rare to trust that "Fred's Garage" is going to know its way around one. I could be wrong, but... Cheers! John '95 Disco five-speed San Francisco, California On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Stephen A. Church wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Hi all! I'm new to the list and I must admit, I am not a Land Rover owner. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)] > 1987 Jeep Wrangler -> * 4x4 * > (Well, it was worth a shot! :-) From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Wed Aug 16 20:14:03 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:14:03 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Early 60s colour schemes I seem to recall someone posted on this before, so my apologies if I'm covering old ground. I was wondering what the appropriate colour distribution is for a '65 109 SW. The original colour was limestone. My question is what colour would the roof (tropical) have been, limestone or "white"? I assume that all side panels up to the roof would have been limestone as well as the rims. TIA Cheers, Jeremy Bartlett From "John C. White III" Wed Aug 16 20:25:13 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 20:25:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Yuppie Bashing I'd like to know about skid plates too, Bob. I found a listing in the "Vehicle Gear" marketing booklet for Discovery put out by LRNA for "Roof Rack, Expedition, Part No. STC8830." Unfortunately it was one of the items not pictured in the booklet so I can't say whether or not it's like the Camel Trophy one. If it is, and it's not too expensive... "Hello. Parts department..." Cheers! John '95 Disco five-speed (Only yups drive automatics :-) ) San Francisco, California On Wed, 16 Aug 1995, Robert Watson wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I'm still trying to "de-yuppify" my Disco, as well. Which brings me to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] > | protection plates, heavy duty winches, etc.... > | -Rick From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Aug 16 23:27:04 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 23:27:04 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Various... Following up on several threads... -Wind screen glass. When a duffer of a neighbor richocheted a nine-iron shot off a tree and through my passenger windscreen, the local glass shop replaced it with DoT-approved, tinted safety glass for $37 a piece. -Ben Newman writes about bulkhead padding. I replaced mine six years ago with some cloth-faced, adhesive-backed neoprene from (dare I say it??) J.C. Whitless. Used the jute original as a template, and it looks just fine after years of hard use. Newspaper or cardboard can be used to make a template. -Rad hoses. Series LR hoses can be obtained just about anywhere...as can oil seals and bearings. Land Rover owners are some of the most parsimonious folks on earth...some of you out there squeeze a nickle so hard the buffalo gets a headache...so here's a cheap fix for the intermediate hose that's been listed in several recent posts. Mine failed a few years ago, and it was the only one for which I didn't have a spare. Cut the ends off a beer can (can't remember the brand), spread it with Permatex, wrapped it around the hose and used the existing hose clamps to secure it. Armored hoses - what a concept. Worked like a champ for two years. -Waterproofing distributors. Gunk makes an ignition sealer spray, which is basically lacquer. Cheap hairspray works almost as well. In my opinion, you don't want to seal the distributor up all *too* well, or else inevitable condensation will start to corrode the innards. "And now for something completely different...." We were planning a work trip to Penlan Farm this weekend to cut a few new trails for the off-road course. for the Mid-Atlantic Rally. However, Hurricane Felix (what a name!) is mucking about just off shore. As I live less than 100 yards from the harbor and have a 32' Dutch-built mahogany sloop up on blocks (nearing the end of a *very* long restoration) in the boatyard, I don't feel real good about cuttin' outta town. ROAV members (and there are 22 of you on this list), watch this space for an announcement...that is, providing the phone lines don't get blown down. If you don't hear from me...it's off. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> 16 95 Aug EDT 1923 Date: 16 Aug 95 23:35:44 EDT From: Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Hiya / oil filter adapters and other bits Hi everyone. Trust you are all having an awesome summer. I love all this sun (first summer in the US after 4 years of rain in Liverpool!) Might be taking a trip there this month, but the weather has been pretty good there this summer too. For those of you who expressed an interest before, I have recieved the oil filter adapters. I also have an assortment of other goodies - roofracks, tailgates, hood stick sets, SIII bullbar, PTO winch, speedo, etc. Just email me. Who is going to the British Invasion this year? Cheers, Leslie '56 Series I Trialer '59 Series II '6? LWB Station Wagon V8 rebuild '6? LWB 3 door rebuild ... etc '65 (X 2) Series IIa SWB - 4 SALE in MASS From Roger Sinasohn Wed Aug 16 21:36:53 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:36:53 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: models > Toys R Us also has a Micro Machines set #37 called Trail Trackers that has a > brown over green SIII 109. They had another 109 a few years ago in blue. I have the brown & Green 109 (did you get yours, Spencer?), but not the Blue one! I don't suppose you have an extra...? > With all the model talk I haven't seen any references to Triple C Motor > Accessories. They have the Dinky Dy9-B for $18 - brand new in the box. The > also have a large (10" or so) *toy* LR 109 with o From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Aug 17 08:58:53 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:58:53 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Yuppie Bashing On 16 Aug 95, CNA wrote: > the question, where can you get skid plates and those "Camel Trophy" roof > racks? (I think I can wait a while longer on the snorkel.) The 12-14" > "lift" to clear the sun roof is not very common. The skip-pan is 6mm steel plating (best with 2" drainage holes) from the front protector bar back to just fore of the axle, and a second piece covering the gearbox and tranfer box area. The roofrack will take 5-10mph off your top speed, and can be made from 1" square ganvanised tubing. The snorkle is best made from standard plastic waste-pipe (about 4" diamiter) with a K&N conical filter protected by the roll-cage I thought the NAS D90 had 14 million miles of headroom and not a sun-roof :-) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 14 19:34:39 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 19:34:39 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Springs (again) Snowploughs in Luton(?)!!!!!! Do you know something I don't? I'm thinking of taking the hard top off if this hot weather continues much longer. From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 14 19:26:50 1995 Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 19:26:50 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: August LRO & single malt... :-) Look at the current (August?) issue of LRW. There is an article by someone who was a L/R service engineer in Canada/Alaska in the '60s. This seems to redress the balance. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Aug 17 07:23:21 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 07:23:21 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: seal number > Does anyone know the seal numbers in an American (N. American that is!) > product for the bull nose crank shaft seal. This is the one on the chain > house. I would like to replace it but don't want to pull the old one > till I get a new seal and I have misplaced the list of seals I keep. Dave, For the 2.25 and 2.6 SIIa engine timing cover seal I have a double lip PN. Chicago Rawhide #19220. Any other make should be able to cross from it. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Easton Trevor Thu Aug 17 08:55:00 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 08:55:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Revival of Old Rovers Hal Leininger wants to revive a Rover after 10 years of disuse. Once again I recommend the 50/50 diesel oil/transmission fluid mix. Remove plugs pour in and wait as long as possible (but not another 10 years) before rotating engine slowly by hand.(This worked for Howard Fisk when his " parts car" to be became a runner and one of the family.) Good Luck Trevor Easton. Grimsby, Ontario. 1962 SIIA SWB SW From "Tom Rowe" Thu Aug 17 08:09:25 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:09:25 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Radiator hose The upper hose for the 2.25l is: Dayco #70687. It cost $5.85 US. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 17 95 Aug EDT 1909 Date: 17 Aug 95 09:30:27 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Reviving Old Rovers Hal writes: >> What's the best way to revive a Rover that's been sitting outside for 10 years unused Generally, it's to put gas in it, charge the battery (or put a new one in) and start it up... More than likely, it will run. I have revived a couple that sat for 10 - 15 years with no more than fresh gas and jumper cables. However, there are some things you should do before starting... -- Drain the old gas. it is probably turpentine anyway. -- Change the oil -- Add fluids to the axles, transmission, diffs, etc. Look at the manual. When in doubt, oil it.. -- check to make sure nothing has "nested" in the air filter, air hose, cylinders or exhaust. -- Clean the fuel filter screen and empty the sediment bowl -- Take the plugs out and make sure the cylinders are free of (mouse-borne) debris -- while plugs are out, use the starting handle to make sure the engine is 'free' and not seized -- check the carb to see that it squirts gas when you pump the throttle -- make sure the throttle and clutch linkages, etc are free and operable (Clutch may be frozen to the flywheel) If all of these things are ok, drip some gas in the carb, prime the fuel pump (there is a handle on the bottom of it -- pump it a couple of dozen times) fire it up. Betcha a dollar that if it was running when parked, it starts right up! Before you drive it on the road... Check the brakes (look for oil-soaked pads and worn out pads -- also mis-adjusted brakes, especially if they have been reassembled with the springs in the wrong places). Check the lights and signals. Lift up each wheel to make sure the bearings are not *totally* shot -- you don't want them to drag. Check the steering box (make sure it and the relay have oil in them). Make sure your frame is not rusted to the point of breaking off at an axle or bodymount (It will still drive in this condition, but I wouuld not recommend it!). Another factor, of course, is where it has sat. The ones I revived had sat in Texas sun for 15 years. Rubber was all baked to a black, hard crisp. But there was not a spot of rust anywhere and the engines were unseized. If it has sat in the Pacific Northwest or in Maine for 10 years... might be a different story entirely. Anyway, if you need any help, let me know -- I have talked several people through work and restorations on the phone.. There are lots of people (me included) on this list who will drop everything for a Saturday or after work to help you get your Land Rover up and running. I look at it as a personal challenge and a way to rescue yet another irreplaceable Series LR... Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 17 95 Aug EDT 1909 Date: 17 Aug 95 09:30:28 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: LR Dealers separate. Anthony writes: << What amazes me about Zumbach is that they have many makes of vehicle under one roof. I had << heard that LR dealers had to be exclusively LR. I have heard the same and 2 dealers I know of (Foreign Motors West in Natick and Decarie Motors in Montreal) had to actually build new facilities for their LR dealers, moving them out from the Rolls-Royce dealerships. Midwest Auto Group here in OH, where I bought my D90, has Lotus, Rolls/Bentley, Ferrari, Porsche, Volkswagon and Land Rover. Personally, I'd get the VW dealer out of there... Last time I was there a Continental R (MSRP $245,000) had been dented by the little brat of a family looking at a VW. Bodywork will probably cost more than the VW they were looking at. Cheers, R. P. Reid From MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Thu Aug 17 10:09:59 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:09:59 -0400 (EDT) From: MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Subject: RE: Craddocks for USA purchasers... John Friedman wrote: >Has anyone had any experience buying parts from Craddocks? Could you pass >on any tips? Any bad experiences? I'm sorry to say I did have a bad experience with this company. Now before you all jump down my throat (because I have heard some good stuff on the list about them) let me explain. We were purchasing over $1500 worth of interior stuff like sounding material, seats, etc and ended up spending loads more in the end. We were quoted prices so we sent a check. By the time the stuff was in stock Land Rover had raised the prices. Craddock decided that we should pay the new price despite the fact that they had already deposited our check. When we questioned John Craddock himself about this he replied that it was better for him to cash the check when he received it, so it wouldn't get lost. We also had to pay shipping to Craddock. So thinking we would get a call from the airport when our purchase arrived, we waited. Instead a shipping company called and said we would need a broker to get our stuff through customs since we had over $250 in merchandise. So we called a broker company. They charged us $110 for the paperwork. We also payed a tax for customs, and then had to pay the shipping company for picking our packages up from the airport. When we asked Craddock about this John claimed he was not responsible for knowing about every state in the US's importing practices. So take it anyway you like, I know I won't be buying from them again. HTH, MTD From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Aug 17 08:59:32 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 08:59:32 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Early 60s colour schemes In message <199508170318.UAA19818@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> Jeremy Bartlett writes: > I seem to recall someone posted on this before, so my apologies if I'm > covering old ground. I was wondering what the appropriate colour [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > Cheers, > Jeremy Bartlett Jeremy, (I just noticed I keep mispelling your name, my appologies) You have a IIa 109 stationwagon so: top top is limestone white. A variation on stationwagons with tropical roofs is the top the same colour as the body and the heat shield limestone white. Wheel are limestone white. sides of top and rear door are same colour as the body. So if you have a tropical top, remove the heat shield, get the whole car sprayed the colour of your choice, spray the heat shield & wheels limestone white and you have it. If your car does not have a theat shield, just spray the top section of the top limestone white & the rest of the car the colour of your choice. TeriAnn From "R. Pierce Reid" 17 95 Aug EDT 1912 Date: 17 Aug 95 12:30:14 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: Installing rear seat in D90 The latest in a series on how to add the best features of a Series Land Rover to your D90... So far have added a pintle-hitch, trailer wiring, gaiters, and -- now -- an inward-facing bench seat. How to add an inward-facing rear bench seat: I ordered my seat from BLRS in Birmingham. I ordered a "Rear Bench Seat, Complete" in Neptune Cloth, which is similar (though not identical) to the U.S. Spec. D90 upholstry. Price, including shipping, was about 1/3rd the cost of a vinyl seat from U.S. Suppliers and 1/6 the cost of a LRNA optional seat. The seat comes without any hardware, so the first order of business is to assemble the following hardware: For attaching the seat back to the seat base: 2 - 1" allen-head machine screws (or similar), 6 flat washers, 2 nylock nuts. All 1/4 inch. For attaching the seat back to the fender well -- 2 - 7/16 bolts, 2 - 7/16 lockwashers, 2 - 7/16 nuts, 2 - large flat washers For attaching the seat back to the rear box lip -- 2 - 1/4 x 2" bolts, 2 - nuts, 2 lockwashers, 2 - 1.5" spacers, 2 large flat washers. For attaching the seat back pillow to the frame, 4 - 1/2 inch long stainless philips screws. Also, a set of shoelaces to secure the bottom pillow to the seat frame once installed. The seat appears to be a straightforward installation... but, appearances can be deceiving. The roll cage diagonal support interferes with the seat back, so it must be mounted about 1.5 inches away from the box sides. Also, moving the seat too far rearward (to try and clear the diagonal) can interfere with the speakers. Also, because the rear lip on the D90 is boxed, you can't get your hands in to put the nuts on the bolts, so you have to drill your holes for the bolts close to the only two openings large enough to get your fingers in... Locate the seat back so that it clears the bed lip by about 1.5 inches and so that the rear part of the frame is about 1 inch from the end of the lip near the rear panel. This boxed-section is open at the end and you will be able to reach in and put the lockwasher on the bolt later on. When lined up in this position, the forward part of the seat back should be close to a 3" x 2" opening in the boxed section at the base of the roll cage. This gives you the other opening where you can reach in with a nut and lockwasher. Once you have your seat aligned, mark the location to bolt the seat back to the floor. Cut two small holes in the rear mat and then drill a pilot and a 7/16 hole through the aluminum fender. Bolt this in place, but don't tighten fully... you will be taking it out again. Mark the seat back and the bed lip where you want the 2" top securing bolts to go through. You will have to guestimate a bit, but a level may help. Remove the seat back and drill 1/4" holes in both the seat back and in the box section of the bed. Re-install the seat back (but don't tighten... you'll take it out again!) and line up the 2" bolts into the holes. You will now need to install some kind of spacer to maintain the 1.5 inch space between the seat back and the bed. I used 1/4" ID aluminum tubing, cutting each piece to fit (there is no set length here... just cut what works). Once this is done, take the seat back out again, leaving the 2" bolts in place, hanging through the holes. Install the seat back using the 4 stainless phillips screws (there is exposed fibreboard on the seats as shipped from BLRS. I attached a piece of black naugahyde over the exposed fiberboard using contact cement... both for aesthetics and to protect it from water.) Now, install the bolts through the fenderwell. Put on the lock washer and use a large flat-washer up against the fender. I coated mine with Silicone caulk because I don't want water coming in through the hole. Install the 2" bolts with the spacer, a large flat washer, put through your hole in the box section and then put on a lock washer and a nut. This will be tough to tighten, but it can be done. You'll have to reach into the box section and hold the nut with your finger until it gets tight. Now, install the seat bottom using the washers, allen screw and nylock nut to keep it from vibrating loose. Tie the bottom pillow in place and you're done... you have a seat. The whole process took about 2 hours including 2 trips to the hardware store. *Disclaimer* I recommend not using this seat while the vehicle is moving unless you install approved seatbelts. Since I plan really only to use it as a place to sit and clean shotguns and smoke cigars, I do not have seatbelts... This installation is not to be intended to imply that inward-facing bench seats provide adequate protection for passengers in the event of an accident. Use these seats for passengers at your own risk. Anyway... next installment will probably be either the installation of a gun/security box on the other fenderwell or, perhaps, a work-light. Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From Duncan Brown Thu Aug 17 12:39:18 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 12:39:18 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Miscellaneous stuff All, About reviving engines that have been napping for a decade: I agree with most of what's been said so far, but I have one additional point to make. If an engine has been sitting uncranked for several years, you are almost certainly going to have a problem with some valve springs. The ones that have sat compressed that whole time are likely to not return to their full length when finally released. I've seen a couple of engines like that (one was a TR6 I bought), and there's massive valve float on the affected valves. I don't think you should underestimate the importance of running some sort of penetrant/lubricant down the sparkplug holes and giving it time to work. (Marvel Mystery Oil would be another choice.) If the remaining oil film on the rings and pistons has turned to sludge, you could have a problem with rings being stuck and not floating around properly right away. On this same TR6 there was severe scuffing of the pistons and cylinders, even to the point of lapping the piston body OVER TOP OF the ring groove on one piston, keeping it from ever returning to a centered position. From what I've seen of early Land Rovers, the net effect of ignoring this advice would be a couple of MPG loss, and a drop in engine life to 300K miles, heh heh heh... (I drove mine for 36 hours in a period of 40, with the number 4 exhaust valve burned away and slowly collapsing farther up into head...my gas mileage and constant need to adjust the valve were my only strong clues anything was wrong!) On the subject of tires: I'm sure this is a quick way to get a religious war going but I'll tell you some info I've gathered in my recent quest for new tires... -- I had been running Dunlop Radial Rovers. These lasted about 45,000 miles, were quiet on the road, and were decent off-road performers early in their life. After 10 or 15K miles, though, they just wouldn't clean out when faced with deep mud or snow. I never got stuck in snow, and only got stuck in the mud at Rovers North where everyone else was getting stuck too, but the traction just wasn't what it should have been and not even what it was when they were brand new. -- I drove someone's 1994 D90 the day they bought it. It had the BFG Mud Terrain tires. Maybe it was the power steering (I'm used to my 1960 SII 88), maybe it was the tires, but I could not control that thing on back country paved roads. It was all over the place to the point of being downright lethal. It felt like I would expect my Rover to if I put about 80psi in the tires....but this guy claimed they were inflated properly. Anyone else have this experience, or can someone verify that the tires must have just been overinflated? -- Lanny at RN offered up as much advice/opinion on tires as I wanted to hear. He bases his opinions on observation and direct experience with his own vehicles and with those used in the off-road school and to travel to events around the US. He said the Mud Terrains are superb off-road but that they were *gone* at about 20K miles. (This is borne out by the experience of my friend with the 94 D90; I think he replaced them at about 18K!!!!) That's fine for the off-road school, but for someone with a more realistic budget, he recommended the BFG Trac-Edge as being only slightly less capable off-road, but much longer wearing, and significantly quieter on pavement. They use those on the school vehicles too. -- I ended up buying the Trac-Edge. Lanny suggested for the older 88's that 215/85 16 would be a better choice than the standard 235/85 16. (This harks back to the "cut through or float" argument about wide vs. narrow tires...) I went with his advice, and they look and fit fine. They are slightly higher noise on pavement than the Dunlops, but wind and drivetrain noise drown it out anyway. Once I replace my engine, I'll be taking it offroad and can report back on the performance there...but they sure *look* quite capable! I got them for US$111 each. High quote while shopping around was $154 each. It pays to look around! They are *obscure* in this country, but be persistent. Don't let them mistakenly get you "Trail Edge" or "Edge" tires. You want "Trac-Edge". -- To anyone with the ex-military Michelins (is it XCL's?): I would expect those to be just outrageously noisy on pavement, not to mention a little wandery. What has your experience been? Since the Rover is my only vehicle, and I work 5 days a week, I am forced to spend a lot of time on pavement, and cannot ignore that aspect when looking at tires. I suppose I could buy an extra 4 wheels and mount up something like XCL's for serious off-road adventures...but then everywhere I go off-road is over an hour (on dry pavement) away, so I've still got a problem! Duncan, eager to head into the woods on the new tires... From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Aug 17 10:02:54 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:02:54 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: LR Dealers separate. In message <199508171342.IAA27410@butler.uk.stratus.com> "R. Pierce Reid" writes: ;I have heard the same and 2 dealers I know of (Foreign Motors West in Natick > and ; Decarie Motors in Montreal) had to actually build new facilities for their LR > dealers, moving them out from the Rolls-Royce dealerships. ; Last time a chatted with a dealer, San Jose British Motors, they were building a new facility for the Rovers down the street. They said Rover offered them a better deal on cars including larger allocations if they had a Rover only dealer location. I guess LRNA is trying to establist a dealer chain that has a Rover identity. TeriAnn From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Aug 17 10:26:52 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:26:52 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Craddocks for USA purchasers... In message <199508171411.JAA27492@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: > We also had to pay shipping to Craddock. So thinking we would get a callfrom ; the airport when our purchase arrived, we waited. Instead a shipping company ; called and said we would need a broker to get our stuff through customs since > we had over $250 in merchandise. Unless you get a conatiner full of stuff, your order normally gets packed in a container full of a lot of other orders. A fraight forwarder usually is tagged for getting the paperwork & stuff sorted. Last one cost me US$40. I took the forms directly to customs myself and paid the import duty. If you had the company do the customs work, the high charges may have come from that. So we called a broker company. They charged ; us $110 for the paperwork. We also payed a tax for customs, and then had to > pay ; the shipping company for picking our packages up from the airport. I did not have to deal with that. It was covered in the regular shipping charges. When we > asked Craddock about this John claimed he was not responsible for knowing ; about > every state in the US's importing practices. So take it anyway you like, I ; know > I won't be buying from them again. It looks like your problems came from: 1. Craddock policy of cashing checks as they come in 2. Craddock not having the parts you ordered in stock and passing on the price increase when they had to pay more for the parts from Rover. 3. You did not fully understand the beaurocratic shipping/customs process and paid for some things that you could have done yourself and got cought in shipper's get rich schemes. Item 3 should not be considered Craddock's fault One of the big problems about sending checks to the UK is that it takes time and prices can change. Also, prices are generally subject to parts on hand. The least painful way to handle UK purchased is to FAX them with your proposed order asking prices & availability.. Make your order by FAX providing a credit card number and specifying FedEx or UPS. The credit card company handles currency changes, UPS or FedEx handles all the shipping & customs. The parts arrive on your doorstop in about 3 days from when it was shipped. You pay for the convience, but is is painless. The cheapest way is to get together with a lot of people & stuff a container. You should make orders through FAX so there is less chance of misunderstandings, pay by credit card if at all possible, if possible call a couple of fraight forwarders to get cheapest prices & take the paperwork through customs yourself. I thought the shipper/freight forwarder/custums circus was a royal paine too the first time I did it. But a lot of it was not knowing what to expect or how to do all the stuff. I think you would have had the same sort of experiences with any UK company that did not have all the parts in stock during a time when Rover is busy raising prices on just about everything. TeriAnn From Rob Bailey Thu Aug 17 11:47:44 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 11:47:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Couple more LR questions... Hello! My '63 Series IIa 88 is slowly getting closer to being ready to hit the trails... The brakes are much, much better needing only two pumps before actually stopping the vehicle! The steering is much more precise and a lot more of the small things (lights, hood latch, floor boards, etc..) are installed and working. I have come across a couple of things that I hope the list will be able to help me with: 1) The transfer case engage/disengage rod was not properly installed when I bought it. The PO had to pull up on the rod while changing from High to Low to High again to bring it out of 4WD. I put the spring and knob back in, but it doesn't seem to work quite right. The High/Neutral/Low control no longer has positive detents, and the 4WD lever pops up when going into Low. It is very difficult to get it to stay in 4 Low. 4 High works great. I suspect that the rod and floorboards are not quite aligned, but I haven't had time to tear it out again. I thought that it was supposed to pop out of 4WD when you shifted: High-Neutral-Low-High. Mine pops out when you shift: High-Neutral-Low. 2) It currently has a tach in it, but I would would like to replace it with a 270 degree type (the current one is only 90 degree, not quite as accurate). The problem is that the tach's that I have looked at all say they are for negative ground systems. They are in plastic cases, so insulating them from the chassis is not a problem. Anybody used such a tach? Thanks, I'm sure I will have more questions as I continue playing with my LR. Rob From Mike Dryfoos Thu Aug 17 10:44:03 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:44:03 TZ From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: RR power steering pulleys and LR carb adjustments Matt Snyder reported that the power steering pulley sheared off on his '88 RR, and wondered if it was related to the leaking power steering pump. My wife had the same experience in our '92 RR -- the pulley just separated into two pieces, an inner and outer, while driving down the freeway. She managed to get it the 80 miles home without requiring a tow. I hadn't noticed any leakage in our power steering pump before or since, so I doubt there is any connection in Matt's case. Just some bad pulleys, I guess. Now that I've got your attention, I have a question about my '71 SIIA. It doesn't seem to be able to hold the idle speed adjustment at the carburator correctly. It tends to drop off into an excessively low idle, causing occasional stalls at stop lights. I've played with the throttle stop adjustment screw on the carb, but after a short time it sinks back into a too-slow idle. Any suggestions on what I should check to get it to cooperate? The truck is equipped with a Zenith carb. It also has a Crane Cams electronic ignition, installed by the previous owner, if that is likely to make a difference. From Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Thu Aug 17 11:25:05 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 11:25:05 -0700 From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Subject: re: Yuppies Rick Larson writes: > Yuppies just got caught in my frustration with LRNA. Despite LRNA > efforts [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > fording, > protection plates, heavy duty winches, etc.... Given the high cost of dealer equipment, why even bother going to them? Owners of Series Land Rovers seem to do fine getting parts from the UK so why not skip the dealer and buy from UK aftermarket supplies? You'll probably get better quality stuff, too. Also, getting custom-fabricated skid plates shouldn't cost much more than whatever Land Rover can provide. This kind of engineering is within the capabilities of most metal shops. ...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with his '91 Wrangler [4.0L, Lockright locker, 31x10.50 BFG M/Ts, Warn 8274, *aftermarket* 2.5" spring lift ]) From lenagham@bachman.com Thu Aug 17 14:53:09 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 14:53:09 EST From: lenagham@bachman.com Subject: Re: Range Rover Power Steering Pulleys. I sent the following message to Matt Snyder yesterday, having just read Mike Dryfoo's message on the subject, it seems like the problem was not confined to early Range Rovers or a bad batch of pulleys (unless it was a big batch!). Matt, the pulley on the power steering pump of my 87 Range Rover aslo sheared off about 3 years ago. I was not having any problems with the pump leaking. I was told by someone who used to work at Rovers North at the time, that this was not an uncommon problem. Also at that time I was working for a company that was doing some joint development work with Rover. My sheared pulley was hand carried from Bedford MA. where I worked, back to Solihull. The folks there said they knew nothing of the problem and it was probably due to the belts being too tight! Personally, I think it was likely that the bolts holding the pulley to the pump worked themselves loose causing excessive force on the pulley. I installed a new pump along with a new pulley, not knowing if the original pump was damged when the pulley sheared. I still have the original power steering box (100k miles) and this leaks when it gets very cold (usually below 20F), so all I do is keep the resevoir topped up during the New Hampshire winters. I've got through 2 winters so far, it sure beats the approx $900 for a new steering box. Regards Mike From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 15 17:54:06 1995 Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 17:54:06 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Back on the Air! Having re-installed the previous version of Chameleon I am now able to pick up mail from my service provider (demon). Apologies to anyone who has had uncollected mail "bounced". ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman HAWTEC Tel: +44 (0)1905 723200 Haswell House Fax: +44 (0)1905 613338 Saint Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Thu Aug 17 16:10:46 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 16:10:46 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Parts Prices in US :-) All, Pleasant surprise yesterday. Needed to buy new taillight assembly for the Disco last night. (Out of line-of-sight obstacle in metro DC parking garage, OUCH!!) Mentally prepared for the worst, the dealer charged me *only* $59.68. For the whole assembly! Did he charge me his cost by mistake...or perhaps the price of just the bulb? I didn't argue, and am considering getting other similar parts just to put on the shelf! As a comparison, in 1980 I priced a replacement taillight assy for my 78 Toyota Celica. Cost then was over $70! And a replacement flimsy rubber trunk mat for the same car was over $300. Items for my current (85) Toyota are similarly pricey. Since buying the Series II 9 years ago, and adding the Disco 2 months ago, I remain satisfied that L-R parts are at least comparable, sometimes better, with respect to impact on the checkbook than the Japanese equipment I've driven during the same period. Hank From Duncan Brown Thu Aug 17 16:46:47 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:46:47 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Lever mania! Rob, > I suspect that the rod and floorboards are not quite aligned, but I > haven't had time to tear it out again. I thought that it was supposed to > pop out of 4WD when you shifted: High-Neutral-Low-High. Mine pops out > when you shift: High-Neutral-Low. It is working correctly. With the red lever full forward (in high), pushing down the yellow lever engages 4WD. Pulling the red lever back through neutral into low pops up the yellow lever (but obviously doesn't disengage 4WD, because 4WD is by definition engaged in low range.) Then pushing the red lever forward again puts you back into high range 2WD. Yes, one could argue the newer vehicles have simplified this user interface, heh heh heh... It's fun to watch what the levers are actually doing sometime. It can also come in handy when the pivot bolt for the yellow lever falls out or breaks off, and you need to get under there and manually throw it into 4WD high! (The hell of it being that whenever you select low range, you need to repeat these under-truck gymnastics to return to high 4WD!) Duncan, who just left it in 4WD high for a couple of days because of that problem a couple of winters ago, and snapped an axle shaft in a cleared parking lot for his troubles... From William Caloccia Thu Aug 17 19:18:55 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 19:18:55 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: I'm off to the Fringe in Edinburgh (a little later than I thought) As well as a SROC and Pen-9 RTV along the way... then back to London to see if I still have a job, and continuing on back to the states for a bit. I'll be working as crew on Ride FAR IV - supporting the 25 riders who will be doing a century per day for five days, Sept. 6-10. All the money they raise will go directly to Aids Resources - 1/3 to the Children's Aids Project in Boston, 1/3 to the NAMES Project (you know, the quilt people), and the remaining third will be split amoungst Aids Resources that the riders select in their home towns. (Ok, I've come this far, so I'll continue and make a shameless appeal: if you want to help out, then send your check made out to 'Ride FAR 4' to: Ride FAR 4 The Widget Factory Box 186 Bolton, Ma, 01740 And be sure to let 'em know your a nutter who drives a land rover and a friend of Bills, (me that is). If you happen to be in the Eastern Mass, Southern NH area, and would like to help the ride in some other way, then contact Suzy and volunteer to help cook a meal for the riders or sponsor a water stop or whatever, or volunteer to help out some other local Aids Resource where ever you are. There is also a concert on Saturday Sept 8 at the 'me & thee' coffee house in Marblehead,Ma, with Chris Smither and Dar Williams, some panels from the quilt will be on display there also. (tickets $20/ea, contact Suzy for more info) Sept 6 Day 1 Concord, Ma --> Storrs, Ct Sept 7 Day 2 Storrs, CT --> Fitchburg, Ma Sept 8 Day 3 Fitchburg, Ma --> Marblehead, Ma (Concert) Sept 9 Day 4 Marblehead, Ma --> Durham, NH Sept 10 Day 5 Durham, NH --> Concord, Ma ------ So if majordomo goes AWOL, then you're on you're gonna be S.O.L. (Figure I'm not going to do any list admin stuff 'til sometime after 13 Sept.) Ciao, -Bill From Leland J Roys Thu Aug 17 16:31:26 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 16:31:26 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Def-90 Steering Re: Dunacan Brown Hi Duncan, in response to your def-90 off road handing message. I also have a 94 def-90, I did not experience the same bad steering problems when in deep mud in utah, however, I was not completely impressed with its handing either. It did seem like the front tires like to move around a lot, (of course my off-road skills are not the best). One thing I did do was to lower the tire pressure before going into the mud. The manual does say its OK to lower the pressure before going off-road, the up it when on the pavement, this may make a difference. From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Thu Aug 17 16:50:34 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 16:50:34 PDT From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: re: re: Yuppies (Longish) >To: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com >From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) .. >Given the high cost of dealer equipment, why even bother going to them? >From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) It is usually engineered for the vehicle as opposed to just being made. Complex issue and very part specific. For many components aftermarket sourcing makes a lot of sense. Particularly ones LR is itself purchasing from outside sources. >Owners of Series Land Rovers seem to do fine getting parts from the UK >so why not skip the dealer and buy from UK aftermarket supplies? You'll >probably get better quality stuff, too. A number of horror stories have also been posted on the net. What has been your experience obtaining LR parts? Who would you recommend dealing with? >Also, getting custom-fabricated skid plates shouldn't cost much more >than whatever Land Rover can provide. This kind of engineering is >within the capabilities of most metal shops. I'm sure I'll eventually order from the UK and fabricate. Just really want to avoid those routes unless really necessary. Specifically, don't want to be if the local LR dealer or US 3rd party vendors can get the part through LR if they are aware. (Thanks to Rovers North who did spend 30 minute on the phone going through parts lists and specs with me on my spring order. 2nd phone call though. Guess it is all who you get on the line and what type of mood they are in.) >...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with > his '91 Wrangler [4.0L, Lockright locker, 31x10.50 BFG M/Ts, > Warn 8274, *aftermarket* 2.5" spring lift ]) Stock D90s have as much or more clearance without a lift. If I had wanted to lift it life would have been much simpler. ARB distributes the Old Man Emu lift for the D90 in the the US. >...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with I sold my '91 Wrangler after less than a year. Very unhappy with it. Almost worthless off road. Both my Cherokees were far better without lifts then the Wrangler was even after one. Brakes suck, no suspension travel, peaky engine response off idle. Abysmal on road. Quality sucked too, clutch broke, (not wore out), at 15k miles. Same with 4 other friends. Jeep said it wasn't covered under warranty as it was wear type part. (All true, not an exageration or a flame attempt. Just my experience.) Buy a Land Rover or Land-Rover. LRNA is under no obligation to support aftermarket or dealer installed accessories. I just find it very ironic that they do, but lean so very heavily toward luxury items for the D90. Particularly given its marketing and basic design as a utility vehicle. For Discos and RR's, the custom, LR labled, picnic baskets and lugage make a little more sense. My dealer wouldn't exchange that little leather gym bag thing for a bimini top no matter how hard I tried. Still don't have any use for it. On some mornings when I had to get up early it even pisses me off a bit. I'm truely sorry I ever dragged the Yuppies into the topic however. -Rick >...lars (who may one day own a Land Rover 110 but is very happy with Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Aug 17 21:00:30 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 21:00:30 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Work weekend Felix is history (maybe). The work weekend at Penlan is on (definitely). *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From JCassidyiv@aol.com Thu Aug 17 23:56:05 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:56:05 -0400 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Probs Just a few questions for you about my 1987 RR; 1.) Does anyone know of any after-market performance oriented parts for the 3.5L(except changing cams)? Has anyone seen after-market performance intake manifolds? 2.) Front windshield wipers are making a loud clunk when they reach the far left position of their arc. The noise seems loudest on the driver's(left) side. 3.) Intermittent oil level warning light. It comes on usually when the vehicle is warm and parked slightly nose up. The level is always at the high end of the normal end on the stick. Could it be a faulty sender? 4.) Can someone re-iterate the common causes for front end clunking on the RR? I get a disconcerting "clunk" while cornering at moderate and above speeds on the right front end. The noise does no occur on flat pavement, but only when the right front axle must articulate(eg, uneven road surface). Thanks for all your kind help! John Cassidy Bangor, Maine From dnthomp@sos.sos.net (DENNIS & NONA THOMPSON) Thu Aug 17 21:07:32 1995 Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 21:07:32 -0700 From: dnthomp@sos.sos.net (DENNIS & NONA THOMPSON) Subject: Newbie w/Purchase/Info. Question Excuse me if I'm not posting this up correctly, as I am new to the Net as well as the Rover List. Have been an admirer of Land Rovers for years, but occupied with raising my family. Now that's done!! I have been watching the dialogue on the net for some three weeks and trying to learned from your FAQ, etc. I've been considering looking for a late 1960's (LWB?) S2? However, pricing sounds scarry and parts the same. Still, I appreciate a well built vehicle that is repairable and durable. My QUESTION is this: are any of you in the northwest Washington (state) area and is it possible to chat some about Rovers? We live about one hour due south of Vancouver, B.C., where there is, it sounds, significant Rover activity. I intend to watch the info as it comes across the mailing list and I still have a lot to learn............can't quite seem to get the darned things off my mind. Thanks Dennis dnthomp@sos.net (E-Mail ok also) From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Aug 18 18:26:09 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 18:26:09 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Identify this part.....? Hi All, I was handed a land-rover part today and for the life of me cant figure out which vehicle it is from.... The only part number is a military one and even thats not all there Comes from ex- oz military stock. supposedly from a IIA III or maybe a 101 or perentje. It is a rubber bush that looks, and is dimensionally, exactly like the front spring chassis bush of a III but is designed for a 3/4 inch dia through bolt! Any ideas? -- Daryl ( this is bugging me) Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From helmuth.guss@balu.kfunigraz.ac.at (Helmuth Guss) Fri Aug 18 11:22:57 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 11:22:57 +0100 From: helmuth.guss@balu.kfunigraz.ac.at (Helmuth Guss) Subject: help on faq As I am not very used with e-mails and the lro-list, I would be happy if somebody could tell me how to recive the faq files. The help menue says get but what is the filename ? Could somebody write an example or explain it to me? Whom must I send the get-message(lro@Land-Rover.team.net)? Helmuth From Andrew Grafton Fri Aug 18 11:35:29 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 11:35:29 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Alternator...? Symptoms : charge light doesn't come on, ever, not even when I just switch the ignition on. No change in voltage when engine is started (i.e. the battery ain't getting charged...). Current flow is all _from_ battery, not to it. Machine : LWB diesel SIII, std. 35A [Lucas :-(] alternator. Other comments : Fan belt OK. Alternator going round. Wiring appears OK. Am I right in thinking that the alternator is probably toast? Any sure- fire/neat ways to check the beastie electrically on or off the car? Haven't had time to have a good look yet but I need to fix it tomorrow. Any hints, tips etc. gratefully accepted. All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk 1 2 3 From Easton Trevor Fri Aug 18 08:00:00 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 08:00:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: SII Idle Mike Dryfoos writes:I have a question about my '71 SIIA. Miss Golightly demonstrates a similar problem occassionally and I also have the Crane Allison ignition. The idle speed drops gradually until she will stall if left unattended. Depressing the brake pedal restores the idle speed (Leaky servo). The problem is the idle adjustment on the single choke weber. The screw seems to creep slowly out richening the mixture by stages until she will stall. A quick readjustment cures all. I have posted this problem before and still can't tune the idle properly. As I tune the screw in the idle speed remains constant and then as the screw bottoms the engine stops. I expect the idle speed to rise at the point that the mixture weakens and back out about 1/4 turn from this point point. Could the steady idle be a result of the electronic ignition? BTW Since the rebuild my plugs stay bright and clean. Carbon build up was due to oil not ignition effects. Trevor Easton Grimsby, Ontario. Miss Golightly 1962 SIIA SWB SW From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 18 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 18 Aug 95 08:47:45 EDT From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Responses ANDREW GRAFTON wrote that his charge light was not coming on and that it appeared that his battery was not being charged. I have not had this happen to me, but I recall that if the charge light bulb burns out that the charging system won't work. If this is the case it could just be the bulb in the charge light. LESLIE STUTSMAN said that she had several items for sale, I was curious about the PTO winch. Is it Front PTO (Pulley) or Center PTO (Transfer Case). Drum or Capstan? I might be interested if it runs off the Front Pulley. I appreciate all the responses I have received on 16" tires for my SerIII. I have not decided yet but will let you know. I think I have given up on the Michelins. Rob Dennis Atlanta, GA USA 73363.427@Compuserve.com 18-Aug-1995 From "R. Pierce Reid" 18 95 Aug EDT 1908 Date: 18 Aug 95 08:51:08 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: Lo Ranger Selector for Rob Rob Bailey writes >> Mine pops out when you shift: High-Neutral-Low. That's what it is supposed to do. When in 4 low, 4wd is always engaged so the lever pops out when you enter 4L. It's not broken. Cheers, R. P> Reid From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Fri Aug 18 08:48:37 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 08:48:37 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: Misc. Stuff BFG Mud Terrains You wrote: From Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Fri Aug 18 10:21:10 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 10:21:10 -0700 From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Subject: Attention: Richard Larson Sorry to waste bandwidth here but I received a LRO-related email from you but inadvertently deleted your address before replying. What's your address? ...lars From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 16 19:53:00 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 19:53:00 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Thankyou to whoever sent me a copy of the OVLR newsletter. It was a very interesting read. It arrived last week and I would have acknowledged sooner had it not been for the problems I've been having with mail. Thanks again. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman HAWTEC Tel: +44 (0)1905 723200 Haswell House Fax: +44 (0)1905 613338 Saint Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk From Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) 18 1995 Aug GMT 1922 Date: 18 Aug 1995 22:37:01 GMT From: Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) Subject: Re: Re: Roof Rack Jory, Thanks for the info on roof racks. Whats your affiliation with MIT? My girlfriend is going to be attending Sloan starting in about 2 weeks now. We'll be moving over to Beacon Hill in a week or so to be a little closer to campus (I'm not looking forward to living there, though). I've seen a nice 88" with a roof rack parked outside Harvard Square near the architecture school. Yours perhaps? Would you be willing to get together sometime & let me take a closer look at your roof rack (and Rover)? Thanks again, Fred - sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered). From BwanaE@aol.com Fri Aug 18 18:40:20 1995 Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 18:40:20 -0400 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: What the heck's this mime stuff? Help ! Starting two days ago, both the Land Rover Owner Daily Digest, and the Mendo-recce digest have arrived at my computer with the following note in the header: X-Note: This message has multiple attachments, stored in a single MIME document. Select "Download" to get the MIME document, then use a MIME decoder (available at keyword FILE SEARCH) to retrieve the attachments. File: thelandr.mme (46409 bytes) DL Time (2400 bps): < 5 minutes Now the problem is that I'm only receiving the first page of the digests, where before they came neatly divided as "page 1 of 3, etc". I didn't make any changes to my e-mail program, this just started out of the blue. Called AOL... they said download the 'MIME decoder' ... did that, but the description page is all greek to me (computers and I have an uneasy truce at best). So my question is ... has this started happening to anyone else? How do I stop this new and twisted development and return to the good ol' days of just reading the digests with the 'scroll arrows' ? Come on all you computer whizzes... Eric. From Jim Russell Sat Aug 19 10:24:24 1995 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 10:24:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Alternator... Andy Grafton: Try replacing the charge light bulb. Sounds like it may be burnt out and the Lucas alternator won't work it the light doesn't work. Good luck! Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Aug 19 16:42:15 1995 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 16:42:15 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Dave Bobeck's travels... Another one joins the fray... Dave Bobeck and friend Nancy came through Gloversville last night with a 1972 Ser III 88 that he just bought from Guy Arnold. Actually, he got into town while I was out of town and had dinner at a restaurant two doors away from where I live - but he didn't know it at the time!! He's got a nice Ser III.. has a few rough spots but runs good. He bought it in Potsdam, NY which is basically on the Canadian border and is driving home to Washington DC. Dave and Nancy stayed overnight at a local hotel and got in touch with me today (Saturday). We spent a few hours changing his transmission oil, trying to sort out a headlight problem (Lucas, Prince of Darkness, strikes again!) and generally shooting the bull. He should be home in a day or two and will probably fill in everyone about the trip. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Wed Aug 16 21:33:45 1995 Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 21:33:45 -0700 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: Syncronising clutch dissassembly I am rebuilding my transmission and need some help. I need to know how to hold back the three spring detent clips in the synchro. clutch. This way I can withdraw the two funny gear things that hold the clutch to the mainshaft. I've tried wrapping wire around them and tying them back to one of the through pins, but the force is to strong. Thanx Chris Youngson VE7CST West Vancouver British Columbia Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Chris Youngson cyoungso@direct.ca 1965 Series IIA 109 3 Door West Vancouver Limestone (in pieces) British Columbia Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Sun Aug 20 01:16:45 1995 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 01:16:45 -0400 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: 109" for Sale, N.Carolina Hello all: Hugo, my beloved 1966 Series IIA, 109" five door is still for sale. Excellent condition, not beat up, cranks and runs out great, no smoke. Green, Limestone wheels (16" wheels), excellent Goodyear WrangleFrom Hal Leininger Sun Aug 20 09:30:56 1995 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 09:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Hal Leininger Subject: U.K.Fax Nos. Does anyone have a list of U.K. Fax numbers? Thanks From John Antram Sun Aug 20 13:14:18 1995 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 13:14:18 -0400 (EDT) From: John Antram Subject: Meet at Stowe, Vt? Hello everyone, I've not heard anything locally about the meet in Stowe I've seen mentioned recently - can someone send me details? Also, being new to Series rovers, and being close to RN, if people are comming up this way for a few days for work, I'd be more then happy to meet and chat with other LR owners. If at all possible, I'll try to get our new/old Series III over to Stowe for the meet. Thanks everyone - everyday I learn more. John Antram Mercedez-Benz 300SDL (87) antram@emba.uvm.edu Land-Rover Discovery (95) po box 565 Shelburne, Vt 05482 Land-Rover SIII/88" (72) (802) 985-8801 & 238-2987 voice From Gary Mitchelson Sun Aug 20 15:52:07 1995 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 15:52:07 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Disco pulls Wrangler free -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Well I took my 95 Disco for it's first off road excursion in Green Ridge state park in western MD, USA. A friend was leading the way in his jeep wrangler and managed to get it stuck in mud up to it's axle on one side. We used my Disco to pull him free, he was quite embarrassed that I had to pull him free and that I didn't get stuck. The great part is that we have it all on video tape! Chaulk another one up for Land Rover. -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU From Gary Mitchelson Sun Aug 20 15:52:11 1995 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 15:52:11 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Disco headrest covers for front seats. -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Anyone have the optional headrest covers for the front seats of the Disco? Hopefully they are more comfortable than the standard headrest. What is the cost of the headrest in the US? -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU From rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Sun Aug 20 17:25:33 1995 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 17:25:33 -0400 From: rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Subject: Re: Disco headrest covers for front seats. At 03:52 PM 8/20/95 -0500, Gary Mitchelson wrote: >Anyone have the optional headrest covers for the front seats of the Disco? >Hopefully they are more comfortable than the standard headrest. What is the >cost of the headrest in the US? My 1994 price list says $180 for leather, $120 for cloth (set of 2). They are comfortable, but the price is a ripoff. And my posture's so bad I never get the benefit of them . -- RP From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 20 95 Aug EDT 1919 Date: 20 Aug 95 19:01:05 EDT From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: JUNKED 1991 RANGE ROVER I hhave a1988 Range Rover. Are parts interchangable between a 1988 and 1991 Range Rover? What % of retail should one expect to pay at a salvage yard for Range Rover parts? Any parts that should be avoided? Is power steering box interchangable on 1991 and 1988? Are there any parts that I should try getting? Cheers Cliff From Tiffany Downing Mon Aug 21 09:46:41 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 09:46:41 +0930 From: Tiffany Downing Subject: RE: Bits & Pieces Roger Sinasohn Wrote: >So my question is, what do you all think are bits and pieces important and/or >nice to carry? If everyone replies to me (at sinasohn@crl.com) I'll compile a >list and post it. Roger I've found that you can bush fix almost anything that's wrong with a Land Rover, while you're on a trip, with Solastic and Rivets. That's what our Land Rover's made of anyway :-) Tiffany Downing ******************************************** Co-ordinator, International Student Programs TAFE South Australia, AUSTRALIA Phone: (61 8) 226 3202 Fax: (61 8) 226 3655 E-Mail: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au ******************************************** From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Mon Aug 21 12:19:44 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 12:19:44 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Range Rover perf bits ohn asks: > 1.) Does anyone know of any after-market performance oriented parts for the > 3.5L(except changing cams)? Has anyone seen after-market performance intake > manifolds? Check out David Hardcastles book "Tuning the rover V8" There are a number of manifolds available.. The cheapest/most popular would seem to be an Edelbrock performer designed to take a holley 4bbl (hardcastle goes into detail re the 390 vac-sec). >From what i hear one of the best investments is headers/extractors (pity no one makes a a set which fits stage 1's :-( There would appear to be lots of performance bits around for the rover V8 but at least here in Oz they are expensive..... contact me if you need more details... cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Aug 20 23:33:29 1995 Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 23:33:29 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Work Weedend I tried posting this last night from Mike's farm, but it got lost in the ether somewhere.... Spent Saturday cutting two new additions to the trials course trail for the upcoming Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally. (For those who came in late, it's September 30 - October 1 in Buckingham County, VA) One of the trails was immediately dubbed "sphincter hill" as you sure tighten up when you descend it. It ain't roll-over angle, but is *damned close*. Make a mistake here and you will do a half gainer and turn turtle in the gultch. The mud bog is holding water just fine, thank you. Last year, we had three months of dry weather leading up to the event, but there has been plenty of rain this year. In fact there was so much, the dam was breached allowing some to drain out. We have a few surprises in store, to boot. The weather was amazingly cool and clear for August. For those of you who wimped out (Diesel Bob), you missed a fine BBQ and a great meteor shower. Penlan Farm has "awesome dark"...though it's on a hill, only one other light is visible. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Mon Aug 21 01:45:19 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 01:45:19 -0400 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Series III Troubles....... OK all you Series gurus........ My beloved 73 Series III 88" stranded me 9 times in 30From Andrew Grafton Mon Aug 21 10:46:26 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 10:46:26 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Re: UK Fax Nos. For LR parts etc? Or anything in particular? Or all of them (there are *lots*) ;-) Happy to help if you are a bit mmore specific. All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From Andrew Grafton Mon Aug 21 10:50:48 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 10:50:48 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Series III Troubles....... During one of my stops I removed the passenger seat, the cover panel, and > withdrew the feed tube from the tank. Isn't there supposed to be a wire or fiber mesh type 'sock' over the end of the feed tube? Well, if so, it's > not there. Anyone know the name and or part number of this 'sock' if its necessary? I think so... No ideas about part numbers > it tricks me into thinking that I have more gas than I actually do. Should > I bend the float arm up or down to accomplish this? Bend the float arm up to make it look like there is less gas in the tank. All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From Andrew Grafton Mon Aug 21 10:56:57 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 10:56:57 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Alternator... fixed Thanks to all those who helped with the charge light disgnosis. That was the problem, and it is now working fine. Stupid design if you ask me. Definitely *not* fail- safe! All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 21 95 Aug EDT 1906 Date: 21 Aug 95 06:04:13 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: back again; misc.replies Hi, I'm back again. My 'round tour of Europe' (well, almost) begann with Billing... then 3 days London, on to Paris, showed the kids around and took them to Euro-Disney ($$$... ouch!), two days at home, and then on to Lillehammer/Norway to the 20th Anniversary meet of the Norwegian Land Rover Club. Wrecked the transmission offroading in the Norwegian wildernis, made the 1,800 km back home through Norway, Sweden, Denmark and half of Germany towing a 18 ft trailer just in 4th gear low and 4th high, no reverse, clanking and grinding all the way. Show me any other vehicle apart from a Land Rover that can do that... There was also near-tragedy when the brand new Defender 110 of the chairman of the Norwegian LRC, of all people, carrying his family and some visitors - 8 people in all - collided head-on with a full-grown elk (moose) at dawn on a lonely road through the woods. The elk was killed, the Defender *very* badly damaged (but repairable - I took a picture), but all occupants unhurt !! Help was called by CB, the elk was hauled away to the sausage factory (that's the usual procedure in Norway), and the Defender towed to the camp, still dripping with blood, where the chairman arrived in time to open the day's activities, slightly shaken, but otherwise in good mood. Of course he gave credit to the Land Rover for having protected the health and life of his family. Usually such accidents involving elks and cars end tragic, with the car hitting the long legs of the elk and the animal's 3/4 ton heavy body sliding across the hood and smashing through the windscreen, crushing and killing the occupants. With the Land Rover, the 'breakfast', fenders, hood and engine took the full blow of the impact, while the windscreen wasn't even broken, and the interior was totally undamaged. An impressive though brutal demonstration of the Land Rover's capabilities. Seems no one else from the list was in Norway, though there were a lot of Brits and Dutch folks present - well, they live 'just around the corner', so to speak. Quite an interesting meeting, all in all. I might post a short summary on the event and drop some names as soon as I get things straightened out here a bit (and the gearbox repaired). Just some immediate responses to the most recent Digests: ** Re: JUNKED 1991 RANGE ROVER, Cliff Kavanaugh writes: > I have a1988 Range Rover. Are parts interchangable between a 1988 and 1991 > Range Rover? What % of retail should one expect to pay at a salvage yard for > Range Rover parts? Any parts that should be avoided? Is power steering box Congratulations on your trove! Practically all parts are interchangeble, including the steering box. Power steering pump may be different, but you can still replace one with the other (hoses, pulley and reservoir must be exchanged as well). The two main differences will be brakes and engine: 1988 - most probably 3.5 l V8 and conventional servo brakes; 1991 - again *probably* 3.9 l V8 Injection and presumably brakes w/ABS. Here, the interchangeability of components is obviously limited. Electronic components that *look* identical can nevertheless be differently calibrated or programmed, especially those controlling the engine. If the wreck still has functioning AC, pull it out right away (not forgetting the entire interior facia and louvre which must be customized for AC, as well as the condenser radiator in front of the normal radiator), there's no cheaper way to get AC for the Range. Piece of cake... eat it! (at 70% discount, of course). ** Re: Range Rover Probs, from JCassidyiv@aol.com: > 2.) Front windshield wipers are making a loud clunk when they reach the far > left position of their arc. The noise seems loudest on the driver's(left) I'd gamble that the wiper motor has worked itself loose. A bit awkward to get at with the Range, but otherwise no mproblem. > 3.) Intermittent oil level warning light. It comes on usually when the > vehicle is warm and parked slightly nose up. The level is always at the high > end of the normal end on the stick. Could it be a faulty sender? Most probably, yes. On the serious side, it could also be a malfunctioning oil pump or gunk in the engine. Put in a new sensor (cheap - relatively); if the problem persists, then start worrying. > 4.) Can someone re-iterate the common causes for front end clunking on the > RR? I get a disconcerting "clunk" while cornering at moderate and above > speeds on the right front end. The noise does no occur on flat pavement ... Replace the bushings of panhard rod and front radius arms (getting out the old bushings is the hardest part), use new nuts if possible, and tighten everyting to the correct torque. You might have to exceed the recommended torque a little bit to eliminate clunking if the vehicle has already clocked up a lot of miles. ** Re: Mind Blowing Land Rover > If you want to really blow your minds, look on page 14 of the new Popular > Science. It shows a SciFi 101 Forward Control of wheich 31 were built. > It is powered by 180 HP 3.5 V8. It is very futuristic but personally I You were looking at the 'City Cab' of Judge Dredd (the new Stallone movie). They had one of those on display in Billing. No rides were offered, unfortunately. If demand is high enough, maybe they'll go into production...? ...all for now, Stefan From "John B. Friedman" Mon Aug 21 06:51:34 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 06:51:34 -0500 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Help on right rear turn signal malady with new Disco There have been several posts in last month or so about people with new Discos having rapidly flashinbg light on dash, and no front or rear turn signal. I have the rapidly flashing light on dash,. flashing side marker and front lamp but no rear lamp. Changed bulb with known good one. No flasher. Anyone have an idea for me to offer the dealer when I take it in? Thanks. John Friedman From Easton Trevor Mon Aug 21 08:04:00 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 08:04:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Fuel Strainers and Gauges Rick Criders problem was similar to the one that afflicted us during Down East 1993. The strainer at the end of the fuel pickup can be replaced using fine brass mesh made for this purpose and available from marine engine dealers (or Ted Howard, in our case). Fold it into an envelope crimp and solder the edges then slip it over the pick up tube and solder into place. Be sure to make it a size that will fit though the hole in the top of the tank and has as much mesh area as possible(ascii diagram below). BTW our fuel gauge read 1/4 full at empty until I ran a separate ground wire from the sender to the chassis instaed of relying on continuity throught the tank and it mounts. *********************************************** Pick Up Tube solder joint> * *Mesh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ * * * *********************************************** Trevor Easton, Grimsby, Ontario Miss Golightly 1962 SWB SW From BwanaE@aol.com Mon Aug 21 08:15:10 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 08:15:10 -0400 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: Blast ! Hey, anybody out there have experience ( good or bad with ) the do-it-yourself home type sand-blast units such as sold through J.C.Whitney ? Specifically, how well do they remove frame surface corrosion? Pulled the body off my '64 88" today to start the restoration ball rolling... blasting / painting the frame's the next step. Opinions / advice anybody ? Eric. From "James" Mon Aug 21 13:36:20 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:36:20 GMT0BST From: "James" Subject: Thoroughly Ceased Track Rod! Hi, I have a 1960 series II I am currently experiencing wear on the outside half of my front left tyre, I have been told that this is due to the tracking being out. The left front is out 6 degrees and the right front is out 3 degrees, both in the same direction. ... To cut a long story short... How on earth do I shift a track rod that has not been shifted since before 1979? The garage which I took it to to do the tracking refused to touch it! Oh ... Just to complicate matters... I have very limited access to expensive equipment so please could I have the cheap alternatives before people recommend the old oxy-acetylene... Cheers muchly, James . ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * _______________________________ James _______________________________ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Aug 21 09:30:30 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 09:30:30 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: LR Purchase Finally! Here's the scoop. Wednesday 8/16- 9:15 pm: Leave Washington DC(in the Honda) for Potsdam, New York. Expecting it to be a long night. Thursday 8/17- 6:00 am: Arrive at Central Tractor Farm and Family Center, Watertown NY. They don't open till 8 so we sleep two hours in the parking lot. 8 am, the store opens, we go inside and score a High Lift jack for $39.99. A bargain I'd say! They also have a handy little oil pump thing for filling diffs, Swivel balls etc, and big giant tubs of gear oil. 10:00 am: Pick up Guy Arnold at work in Potsdam, somehow as soon as he sees me, he says "You must be David" I don't have "SACUL" imprinted in my forehead so it must've been something else. We go to his house, push the Rovewr out of the garage and go to work on the inspection. Many hours later, lots of frame-banging and gearbox testing shows the vehicle to be somewhat accurately priced. The frame is going but is not too late to be saved. No large holes or weak spots, but plenty of surface gunk and rust. But solid. Test drive, speeds of 50 are easily attained, all gears seem to work ok, reverse a bit noisy, holds all the gas we put in it, "emergency" brake test works just fine. We stay over at Guys, settling on a price before we sack out. Friday 12:00 noon: After several tries at DMV, we have tags. Oil changed, tappets set, swivels balls filled, and we're off. On the way out of town, we get to try another brake test as some college boy in his Mom's Cutlass Ciera cuts a left turn right in front of us. I slam on the brakes and she stops on a dime. Beatiful. A bit shaken, but quite confident, I scold the young man and continue on my way. Current nickname for the Landy is "LUCKY". After about an hour driving through the Adirondacks, I feel like the heat from the floorboards is going to disintegrate me from the feet up. I'm sweating profusely and we're only able to go 40-50 mph, without the temp needle getting too high. Questioning the wisdom of buying this beast, I pull over, and go to work on opening the rear sliding windows, as they are quite stuck because of the decaying channels. Lots of WD40 and creative use of metal objects, and the windows are open. At least it's a bit cooler, but we're still crawling. After we get on Route 30, the Rover magically starts going faster, 55 and 60 no problem. About 10 miles out of Gloversville, she pops out of 4th. Checked tranny oil, level's ok but looks sort of thin. Arrive in Gloversville and discover that it pops out of first too, only when you let off the gas. Well, we stay overnight and in the morning call Michael Loidice(spelling?) in Gloversville. He comes out in his IIa, and we set up shop in the Super 8 motel parking lot. Its Rover mechanics 101 as I fumble with the gear oil pump thingy, and scrape my knuckles on the frame. Oil Changed, its over to Mike's place, where we glom spare parts off his "Fernmobile".(thanks Mike!) Several hours later we're on our way again, having escaped the wrath of Mike's young ones, who helpfully pointed out that "He doesn't have any dents yet, Dad" Another hour of driving and were on Route 88(appropriate!) and the temp needle is telling me to stop. I pull off, get the Haynes manual out and Nancy and I set the timing, since there's nothing obvious like a broken hose or antifreeze coming out. Rover mechanics 101 again as Nancy gets to know the hand crank.(watch it Dixon!) enough dicking around and we're off again, and the Rover is running better than it has since I first got in it. It gets up to 55 right quick with the pedal only halfway down. On this leg of the journey the Speedo actually hits 70mph! Not claiming that was the actual speed, but that's what it said. Saturday night we hit Baltimore at 2 am and crash at a friends house. In the morning its tooling aroung B'more and getting plenty of clutch practice, filling swivel balls, which leaked surprisingly little considering the condition of the seals, and several Black and Tans. Took the windscreen down and fixed the squeaking hinge post that was my "music" for the 600 previous miles. 10 pm Sunday, arrive in DC, unload the beast and park it on the street. Drive Nancy home in the Honda, which feels totally weird as I squirt wiper fluid whenever I try to hit the turn signal. I love it. All in all, a very sturdy Rover that after some undercarriage work will be a fine example that should give me many years of loyal service. There's only 58,000 and change on the clock and I'm fairly certain that it's accurate. Except for the tranny, (which at this point is just an inconvenience) there's nothing that bothers me me about this vehicle. I drove it almost 700 miles this weekend and am confident that it will take me anywhere I want to go. Thanks to the Arnolds and Michael L. for their hospitality and generosity, hope to see you all again some time. Cheers! David R Bobeck No Graphic! Washington DC dbobeck@ushmm.org 202-488-6588 w 202-337-1232 h '72 SIII petrol swb "LUCKY" '89 Honda Civic "Rice" From mmurphy@evolving.com (Mark Murphy) Mon Aug 21 07:29:26 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 07:29:26 -0600 From: mmurphy@evolving.com (Mark Murphy) Subject: Land Rovers in Breckenridge Made a trip up to Breckenridge on Friday to join a days activity of the Land Rover sponsered 25th Anniversery party. Joined a group of 23 different Land Rovers and a Jeep Cherokee. Fairly even split between Series, Discos and Range Rovers. We drove to Montezuma and then 4WDed to the back side of Radical Hill. Gorgeous view of Webster Pass and Red Cone. Saw a small herd of mountain goats at the bottom of Radical Hill. Drove back over the St John's trail to Montezuma. Nothing too radical, some steep ascents and descents and alot of "potholes". My Disco did great (it's first 4WD outing). Little rough in a few spots but was a good "first" trip. Also, comforting to know there were at least 23 LR experts if I had any questions/problems. Axle articulation is great. The mogul ascents/descents left the Disco level even though the opposite front and rear tires were 6-8" higher. Axles transitioned smoothly as the Disco moved forward to the next set of moguls. Overall, was VERY impressed with the off-road capabilities. The west start of St Johns (from Radical Hill) was new to me - couldn't get my old Toyota PU up the first hill. Disco chugged right on up. Spent most of the day in "locked low". Uphill gearing in high and 1st just wasn't enough. Engine breaking with the 5spd in first gear-low is great and rarely had to use my breaks (even on the steepest descents though I was passed my several turtles :) ). Averaged 14-16 mpg on trip from Denver -> Breckenridge -> 4WD -> Breckenridge -> Denver. (to John - can't say I really felt any detents for the transfer case lever. Was doing all lever movements with the clutch disengaged. Didn't get the lever in the correct position the first couple of times and it popped back out after traveling a few feet. Clutching again and moving the lever the second time - moved it much farther. The range of motion made it obvious that I had it engaged. After that, I "played" with the clutch until I got the "full lever travel".) Went up Saturday behind Georgetown toward the Waldorf mine and Argentine Pass. Ran into a strange, cyclic metal scrapping metal noise coming from the front end. Stopped, looked and didn't see anything. Started again and was gone. Drove 1/2 a mile and it was back. Did this several more times. Didn't sound like the transmission nor transfer case. Moving the steering wheel didn't make a difference. Noise got worse at speed (something turning faster) and "sorta" corresponded to suspension movement (was worse over rough terrain). After a couple of miles, it disappeared. My best guess - something (rock/twig) caught in the brake guards? Once it was dislogged, quiet as can be. Haven't noticed anything since. Will have them look at my 1000 mile fluid change. Anyone else ever experience something similar? Spent Sunday converting my brown Disco back to white. Caravans are nice for socialization and problems on the trail but a pain while waiting for a "rough" section and "eating dust". Drove the Bronco to the body shop to have the rust removed and repainted before selling it. Loud, big and stiff. Definitely more hp/torque but then based on this weekend, I really didn't need the extra hp/torque. Couldn't wait to get back to my Discovery! Mark Murphy mmurphy@evolving.com '95 white 5spd Discovery From Franz.Parzefall@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE Mon Aug 21 15:52:34 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 15:52:34 +0200 (MET DST) From: Franz.Parzefall@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE Subject: Snorkle for Defenders ? Dave wrote about Serie Snorkels. Is there anybody who did such things for a Defender? I didn't look at prices yet, but in planing to give my 110 a rised air intake. Cheers Franz ------------------------------------------------------------- Franz Parzefall fparzefa@physik.tu-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From "John C. White III" Mon Aug 21 07:08:22 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 07:08:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Help on right rear turn signal malady with new Disco I had a similar problem with my new Disco. From what I can tell if one of the bulbs, either front or rear, is not functioning the drop in electrical resistance causes the breaker that opens and closes the circuit to open and close faster because it heats up faster. In my case my left front light was "burned out." When I removed the bulb, it turned out to be in perfect health. Once I put it back in, it worked perfectly. All I can guess is that my, at that time, 10 day old car had developed a bit of oxidation on its trip across the Atlantic. It's now two months old, and I've had no trouble since. Cheers! John '95 Disco San Francisco, California On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, John B. Friedman wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > There have been several posts in last month or so about people with new Discos having [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > known good one. No flasher. Anyone have an idea for me to offer the dealer when I take it > in? Thanks. John Friedman From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Aug 21 10:50:46 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 10:50:46 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: mysteries... Howdy! Just a few things I couldn't figure out from the Manuals, looking for some help. 1. The timing pointer doesn't look like the one in the book. It has three points and then another one further down. I've got it set to the third one in the group of three, which I believe is TDC. All the information I have seen is conflicting on where it should be set. Its an 8:1, with pcv valve temporarily removed (by PO) 2. Engine diesels when I shut it off, some times extensively, and it "burbles" when idling or coasting down a hill in gear. 3. Exhaust leak at rear of muffler where it joins the tailpipe. Could this have something to do with #2? 4. Pops out of first, if you lift off the gas. Also sometimes difficult to engage 1st, easier if you go into second and then up into 1st. 5. Lights. 'nuff said about those! Thanks. Dave B. Wash. DC dbobeck@ushmm.org 202-488-6588 w '72 SIII petrol, swb "LUCKY" PS- Thanks to Nancy Hartman, my dear friend and aspiring Rover Mechanic, for putting up with me and doing lots of marathon driving. She also lost her wallet during the course of putting the spare tire on the bonnet, sorry about that, Nancy. Cheers and lots more Black and Tans. From terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Mon Aug 21 16:48:32 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 16:48:32 +0200 From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Subject: Re: back again; misc.replies >Seems no one else from the list was in Norway, though there were a lot of Oh yes, there were. Myself, a collegue named Ketil Kirkerud (we're both mostly lurking on the list), and a British gentleman named Peter Hubbard. I'm sure there were others as well... TK 1972 88" Series III >. From tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Mon Aug 21 11:01:33 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 11:01:33 EDT From: tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Subject: 89 Range Rover Hi all, does anyone know the nut size for the front hub. thanks From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 21 95 Aug EDT 1911 Date: 21 Aug 95 11:28:31 EDT From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Disco Alert If you own a Disco you need to check you axel to wheel connection for tightness of the bolts! While installing a locking Diff in mine I found that two of the bolts that hold the axel in were literally finger tight! For the non-mechanical these are the five bolts that circle the hub at the center of each wheel. This will allow water to intrude into your wheel bearings with some nasty and expensive consequences. Fortunately I caught this in time. Mark Ritter 94 Disco From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 21 95 Aug EDT 1911 Date: 21 Aug 95 11:36:29 EDT From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Starter Noises The starter on my 94 Disco just began to make a noise similar to a coffee grinder. At first i was worried that it had injested mud/sand from my last off road adventure, but upon inspection I can't find any way for water to enter it as it appears sealed. As for the bell housing as mine is an automatic there are no wading plugs and only a tiny hole about the size of a cocktail straw to allow for fluid drainage out of the housing. I can't believe that enough contaminants could make it through there to harm anything as the car has never been in water while wading for more than 10 seconds. When I called the dealer (warranty) I was told to bring it in and that it would be covered. I'll let you know what happens. Mark Ritter 94 Disco From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Aug 21 16:57:58 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 16:57:58 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: back again; misc.replies On 21 Aug 95, Terje Krogdahl wrote: > >Seems no one else from the list was in Norway, though there were a lot > >of > Oh yes, there were. Myself, a collegue named Ketil Kirkerud (we're both > mostly lurking on the list), and a British gentleman named Peter Hubbard. > I'm sure there were others as well... Was there a blue and white trialler there? George and Mags (from the SLROC) are in Norway (and have been for over a week) -- they may have dropped in ;-) BTW - that's the motor that won the Nationals RTV (with 2 points!!) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From jcfltee@CAM.ORG (Christian Tassé) Mon Aug 21 12:07:19 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 12:07:19 -0400 From: jcfltee@CAM.ORG (Christian Tassé) Subject: Various for Discovery Hi everyone, 1st question : Does anyone know of an equivalent CD player that would fit in a 1995 Discovery? I find the factory one to be to expensive. 2nd question : Can anyone tell me if I could fit (and if they exist) Yellow round fog lamps (could be as big as a rallye type lamp) on the front bumper where they should be fitted? I don't want a white fog lamp. Thank you for all answers. Christian Tasse Discovery 1995 From Gary Mitchelson Mon Aug 21 13:03:41 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 13:03:41 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Re: Various for Discovery -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > Hi everyone, > 1st question : Does anyone know of an equivalent CD player that would fit in a > 1995 Discovery? I find the factory one to be to expensive. The CD changer is a standard Pioneer unit. When I bought some extra CD cartridges for it last week both Sears and Best Buys had the CD Changer. They were both more expensive than I what I paid for it from LR when I bought my Disco. -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 21 95 Aug EDT 1909 Date: 21 Aug 95 9:58:30 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Anybody ever replace a relay lower seal on the car? Unfortunately, due to my own stupidity, the lower oil seal on my steering relay has begun to leak profusely. Rather than torch out the frame to get it out, I was giving serious consideration to replacing the oil seal on the bottom in situ. Has anybody ever tried this? Alan P.S.: my rebuilt petrol engine runs soooooo smooth...8*) Now, once Craddock manages to ship me my new Weber, we'll see about actually taking the old bucket on the road... ajr From sac4@cornell.edu (Stephen A. Church) Mon Aug 21 14:42:01 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 14:42:01 -0400 From: sac4@cornell.edu (Stephen A. Church) Subject: My friend went with the Disco Hi all! Thanks again to those of you who responded to me with advice for my friend (Chris) on purchasing a Defender. We went to the LR dealer Saturday afternoon to do the deed and believe it or not, Chris changed his mind. Someone mentioned that he'd never be able to justify the price but to get it anyway, and upon looking at one again, he couldn't and he didn't! We both really liked the D90, but after looking at the Discoverys on the lot and the one in the showroom, he decided that a Disco would better suit his needs than a D90. He had an appointment for 1:00 p.m. to talk with a salesman. We were there at 12:55 and looked around for 30-45 min. before Chris had to go ask to talk with one of the four salesmen about possibly purchasing a Discovery -- I guess in our shorts,t-shirts, running shoes, and hats, we didn't look like the typical perspective buyer of a LR (or a Porsche/Audi/Mercedes either). After deciding on what he wanted and finding out how little they would give him for a trade on his Saturn (yeah, Saturn to Land Rover -- the path I'm sure many of you followed! :-), he put down a deposit. They didn't have what he was looking for, but they're supposed to call him this week sometime to let him know what they found at other dealers. If (hopefully when) he does finally get the Disco, we're thinking about taking it out to the Southwest for a quick (is that possible if we start from upstate New York? ;-) trip to do some camping,hiking and *maybe* some mild 4X4ing. To quench our thirst for the time being, we went home and took my non-stock Jeep out and got muddy! :-) Can't wait to get his Disco muddy, too! Steve Church 75 Triumph Spitfire --> * British * 87 Jeep Wrangler --> * 4x4 * (Well, it was worth a shot! :-) P.S. Reading some of the postings about the older LRs has really grabbed my attention. As you can see I'm already interested in British cars and 4x4s, and it would be really -- for lack of a better word -- neat, to be able to combine the two. If anyone knows of any halfway decent, older, *more affordable* LRs for sale in the Northeast, please keep me in mind. Thanks! From Rob Bailey Mon Aug 21 13:14:40 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 13:14:40 -0600 (MDT) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Yet more questions.... Thanks to everybody who has replied to my questions so far, I have a couple more... 1) Can anybody try and describe how to use the hood (bonnet(sp?)) mounted spare tire holder. No matter what I try, I can't make it fit so it looks right. It didn't have a tire on it when I got the truck, and all the pictures that I've seen in catalogs don't have a tire included. It has 2 bolts and two "cams" as they are called in RN's catalog. 2) My steering box is leaking like a sieve, and I remember reading in the FAQ that 140 weight could be used. Everybody else I talked to says it should be 90wt. I would expect 140wt would stay in there longer, will it work well enough? How about the swivel housings? BTW, I now have brakes that work on the first pump! I rebuilt all four brake cylinders, replaced the bake brake shoes (because on oil contamination) and adjusted the fronts. Will replace the front shoes before long, as the adjusters will not "lock" up the wheel when fully adjusted. Thanks, Rob From Robert Watson (CNA) Mon Aug 21 10:39:15 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 10:39:15 TZ From: Robert Watson (CNA) Subject: Disco gets dirty I finally got my new Discovery dirty this weekend. I took it up in the Cascades (West. Washington State) on some logging roads and the best word I could use to describe the trip is "yawn". While we did get some dramatic views of the mountain range, and Mt. Rainier, the driving was quite boring. This wouldn't be so noteworthy, except that these are the same roads that, in my (previous) Jeep Wrangler, I'd felt a particular sense of accomplishment (i.e. it was "work" to get up the hills). Time to find greater challenges, I guess :-) My only concern was in going up some of the long grades, the engine temp would start to rise if I was in high range and 1st gear (Auto/trans) 2nd gear seemed to lug. (outside air temp ~75F, elev. 2500'-4500' MSL approx 500 lbs pax and cargo in vehicle, and A/C on full ) After shifting to Low-range and leaving the auto in "3", I didn't have any more problems, but this just seemed odd to me. -- Bob Watson '95 Black Discovery From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Mon Aug 21 15:40:58 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 15:40:58 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Saturn to L-R Looking at a consumer reports sort of thing on expected retention of value by 1995 vehicles, Saturn was tops, 9 out of 10, in domestics. The only "10" I remember in the list was the (ulp) Toy Land Cruiser!! L-Rs rated 7. Guess they didn't hear about those 500 North American used 110s with 25k miles going for more than new! But we're not "investors," are we? Since I took a bit of a screwing on the 300ZX trade-in for the Disco, I'm not too surprised at the same happening with a Saturn, esp at "prestige marque" dealers. However, when time comes to trade in the '85 Supra, strongly suspect a Saturn is what we'll get. (Two daily drivers needed in this hard-working household.) Sure, we won't get the picnic basket, but we do get a picnic at the factory, eh? That'll leave the ancient Ser 2 as the "non-daily"/back-up to keep life interesting and maintain proper individualistic distain of commonness. Just don't think a 3rd L-R will seem practical...maybe someday though. Hank From David John Place Mon Aug 21 16:04:46 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 16:04:46 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Blast ! Re use of home sand blaster> I use one with my shop tank. I have 150 lbs pressure and it works very well. We did some body work and other engine parts and they come very clean. Most of them are just a tube you put in a pail with fine sand and the best ones have a ceramic replaceable tip because the metal ones just don't stand up to more than one or two uses. Dave VE4PN From johnliu@earthlink.net (John Y. Liu) Mon Aug 21 15:26:57 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 15:26:57 -0700 From: johnliu@earthlink.net (John Y. Liu) Subject: FS: Spare Tire Carrier For Truck Bed I have a spare tire mount for the truck bed of a 109' pickup. This is the one that has a galvanized steel tire "well" that fits in a cut-out in the wheel box, and a tire mount that rivets to the inner bedside. I've removed it to install some cabinets and would be happy to sell it, cheap, to someone who needs it. I'm also still looking for used inward-facing bench seats, in case anyone has some extras to sell fairly cheaply. Finally, does anyone have experience mounting receivers for a trailer hitch on a Rover, in both front and rear? Is there a kit available? I'm thinking of buying a "multi-mount" type winch, that mounts to a receiver, and using it for both ends of both trucks. John Y. Liu johnliu@earthlink.net From Gary Mitchelson Mon Aug 21 19:26:54 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 19:26:54 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Re: Disco headrest covers for front seats. -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- >Anyone have the optional headrest covers for the front seats of the Disco? > >Hopefully they are more comfortable than the standard headrest. What is the > >cost of the headrest in the US? > My 1994 price list says $180 for leather, $120 for cloth (set of 2). They are > comfortable, but the price is a ripoff. And my posture's so bad I never get > the benefit of them . Thanks for the reply. Yeah, $120 a set is a little high, I wonder if there are any alternatives. -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU From "John B. Friedman" Mon Aug 21 18:53:30 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 18:53:30 -0500 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Series and Disco stuff FS I have a couple of items I could part with if any one could use them. 1) adjustable spanner, from 1965 Ser IIa 109 PU tool kit. flat adjustable monkey wrench like a plumber's pipe wrench. Pretty good shape. I would take 25.00 and pay the shipping, 2) The panel which holds a CD player and goes under the seat of a Disco, as I don't intend to have a CD player. Say 10.00 plus shipping as it is bulky. e-mail me. John Friedman From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Aug 21 20:42:47 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 20:42:47 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: LR Purchase Dave Bobeck's tale of his "new" Rover... > 10:00 am: Pick up Guy Arnold at work in Potsdam, > somehow as soon as he sees me, he says "You must > be David" I don't have "SACUL" imprinted in my > forehead so it must've been something else. / It was that goofy grin on your face! That "Oh, boy! I'm gonna look at a Rover!" grin. By the time you got to my place, it was more like the maniacal grin of some crazed soul with roasted toes! I don't even want to know how you looked by the time you got home - but I bet you were grinning, ear-to-ear! :-) Glad to hear you got home OK. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 21 95 Aug EDT 1921 Date: 21 Aug 95 21:03:19 EDT From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Ser 2 sighting After 10 months in the country I saw my first proper LR yesterday. It was a nice, straight looking, brown coloured ser 2a 109 SW with a Mass reg. number 879 T20 which I saw on the I90 in the Syracuse / Utica area , I followed it for about 20 miles, had to slow down a bit !! I am off to England for three days at the weekend, next Monday is a holiday over there and there are lots of LR events ( this will be my last company paid trip back home ) I am still wating for my 109 to clear customs and be delivered here this week !! The customs had a day off last Friday. To make my 109 road legal here what else do I need to do besides change the headlights to dip right ? Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Aug 22 12:06:25 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 12:06:25 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Tyre mount Rob asks: > 1) Can anybody try and describe how to use the hood (bonnet(sp?)) mounted > spare tire holder. > It has 2 bolts and two "cams" as they are called in RN's catalog. Ok, place the cams on the bolts such that the longest "leg" is towards the mounting plate. Turn the cams so that the long axis is across the vehicle and the long side is facing outwards. (the cam is slightly curved, sort of like a crescent moon, you want the the two cams to be like this ( ) not ) ( on the mount Get your wheel and put it over the centre of the mount with the front (outside) facing down towards the bonnet, the cams are then turned to clamp the back of the rim down. The long leg of the cam should be touching the top of the mount when the bolts are tightened, if it isnt then you need longer legged cams (there are at least two different sizes ) hope this makes some sense cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From jpappa01@interserv.com Mon Aug 21 20:22:02 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 95 20:22:02 PDT From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Misc. - Still more info. on upcoming D90 SW. The latest and greatest word is that there will be *400* aluminum hardtop/one-piece door with windup windows/external rollcage/4-jumpseat D90 SW's brought in. November delivery to dealers. AFTER THAT, the *FINAL* 240 NAS D90s will be *STANDARD* ragtop D90s such as we have now - full soft top, regular safari cage and rear bench seat... Still no final word on the aluminum top prices/color choices although the most recent color spec. was some choice of colors... PRICING information will be available sometime next month & I will post same... - The BSROA will have a contingent present at the British Invasion in Stowe... Sept 15/16. Hopefully we'll have a record Rover turnout from all points of the compass! - BTW, the long-lived Range Rover Classic is officially OUT OF PRODUCTION. There are approx. *500* units total remaining in dealer inventory throughout NA! In addition, there are a small handful of LWB's remaining as well. LRMW has ONE left. This means that in `96, the *NEW* Range Rover is IT along with Disco. No Defender or Classic! This is truly a drag! - July/Aug. issue of Rover Reference will have as many details of `96 MY lineup as possible. Will post same as I get it... Cheerz Jim - duh, hey, uh, you got any of those Defender Jeeps? `67 2A 88 5.0L Hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L Hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C Diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From johnliu@earthlink.net (John Y. Liu) Mon Aug 21 20:10:00 1995 Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 20:10:00 -0700 From: johnliu@earthlink.net (John Y. Liu) Subject: 1965 88" SW for sale Saw this ad on rec.autos.antiques: george.ray@nccbbs.com has a friend with a 1965 88" Station Wagon, "Lt. Green", in "very good condition" for sale in Virginia and is asking $7,000. Caveat: I know zip about the poster or the vehicle and am merely passing on the ad. John Y. Liu johnliu@earthlink.net From "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com> 22 95 Aug EDT 1901 Date: 22 Aug 95 01:49:18 EDT From: "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com> Subject: National Land Rover Rally, Colorado Hi Everyone, Just returned from the U.S. National Land Rover Rally in Breckenridge, Colorado last night and thought I'd post a report for those who may be interested. The event, sponsored by Solihull Society with support from British Pacific Ltd., Rovers North, and Land Rover of North America (LRNA), was more of a "gathering" to celebrate Land Rovers and more specifically, the 25th anniversary of the Range Rover. Originally, the event was limited to the first 40 vehicles, but I would estimate that it was closer to 65-70 at the peak of the activities. The weather was terrific and the landscape represents the best of the rockies and was nothing less than spectacular. The event started on Tuesday, August 15 and ended on Sunday, August 20. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get there until late Thursday, Aug. 17th after a 10 hour drive from Santa Fe. I drove my late Series IIA 88 hardtop pulling a British MOD trailer which is painted to match (sand). Friday morning saw another day of trail rides above tree line, treading lightly of course, going to over 12,000 feet. These rides were pretty much all day affairs in challenging, but not overly difficult conditions. About 20-25 vehicles traveled together through the various courses and routes. Most of the courses took the participants along high mountain ridges with unbelievable views and world class alpine mountain scenery. The organizers and very capable, experienced leaders did an excellent job of preping folks and ensuring safety. Nevertheless, there was one incident that created more than a little anxiety. I was on another course at the time so did not personally observe the following incident. However, I will describe it as best I can based on the what my friends who were there reported. This incident occurred on a extremely steep decent known as Red Cone. I understand that one of the course participants who was associated with the Camel Trophy said that it was one of the most challenging sections he'd run across. It was a 40% (!) downgrade with numerous "moguls" along a steep narrow ridge with several thousand foot drop off either side. Everyone was doing well and the technique of low range, low gear, STAY OFF THE BRAKE, but brake when you're in the mogul, was working pretty well. The braking in the mogul was crucial since the grade was so steep that engine braking was still not adequate to keep from gaining too much speed, but you didn't dare touch the brakes until your vehicle entered the moguls... there were several sections of descent with moguls before reaching the bottom. Anyway, a number of vehicles had already descended and were gathered at what was thought to be a fairly safe site near the base when folks looked up and to their amazement, saw a new Discovery coming fast into the first mogul, plowing through the mogul and then going AIR BORNE, somewhat at an angle and crashing down onto the 40% grade, then repeating the sequence of plowing into the next mogul, launching out airborne again, sometimes at a different angle and leaning to one side! Most folks thought for sure that the Discovery was going to land at an angle or in a place where it would plummet over the side of the ridge to certain tragedy. Somehow, the Discovery kept righting itself before crashing into the ground and stayed relatively on course! Finally, all those gathered below realized that they were in the "out of control" Discovery's path (if it didn't go over the side of the mountain first) and folks began moving vehicles and running on foot in various directions! Fortunately, the Discovery came to rest at the base of the ridge without contacting anyone else and the the driver and his girlfriend (or perhaps ex-girlfriend by now) emerged very shaken, but okay. What happened to cause the rapid descent?? I'm not sure. I heard that there was quite a lot of "on site investigating" by the technical types that were present. I understand the driver had only purchased the Discovery a few months earlier and that the vehicle apparently lost power (engine died?) at the beginning of the descent. Some folks speculated that he somehow also wound up out of gear. I don't know, but it must have been a sight! Although there were probably several cameras below, apparently the "shock" of what was happening and the need to get to safety resulted in no one taking photos! I understand that the Discovery was quite drivable the rest of the way with damage only to the front and rear body and a mangled bull-bar. To my knowledge, there was no other significant problems or damage to vehicles. It was nice to see the old Series machines keeping up with the newer high tech models. I believe the elevation was particularly noticeable in the older models. Power is certainly down at 12,000 foot and several of us had some trouble with our carburetors loading up at low rpms. I would guess that two thirds of the vehicles attending the Rally were Range Rovers, Discoverys, and Defenders (there were 4 of the white special edition 110 that were imported to the U.S. a couple of years ago). The remaining vehicles were series Land Rovers including several 109's, a number of soft and hardtop 88's and an especially nice soft top Series I (1958) that Joyce and Malcomb Buckeridge brought out from California. The participants came from all over including both the east and west coast. LRNA showed the new 90 Hardtop Defender that's scheduled to conclude the 95 production (I believe there are 400 units coming to U.S.). They also had a 2-door Discovery that they were soliciting comments on. Personally, I really liked the Hardtop Defender 90, but wasn't excited by the 2-door Discovery. I can't see that anything is gained by deleteing two doors... same wheelbase, interior, etc. However, if the price is significantly lower, then perhaps... Saturday saw a day of "games" which included skills exercises including a teeter-totter, blindfolded navigation, and several other "tests". All in all, the organizers did an EXCELLENT job and put on a FIRST CLASS event! I'm looking forward to the next one. Cheers! Tony Bonanno Santa Fe, New Mexico From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Aug 22 16:32:40 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 16:32:40 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Relay lower seal Alan asks: > I was giving serious consideration to replacing the oil seal on the > bottom in situ. Has anybody ever tried this? Back in the dim dark past I replaced the bottom seal on my IIa "in situ" I dont recollect any specific problems (except that the old one was hard to get out) but itFrom Ketil Kirkerud Tue Aug 22 12:08:51 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 12:08:51 +0200 From: Ketil Kirkerud Subject: Re: back again; misc.replies > SLROC) are in Norway (and have been for over a week) -- they may have > dropped in ;-) Yes, there was. If we're talking about a 88ish coilsprung hybrid with a somewhat strange headlamp arrangement. As far as I can remember it did'nt do too badly in the trials competition. ---Ketil From Richard Jones Tue Aug 22 12:25:36 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 12:25:36 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Misc. jpappa01@interserv.com writes: > - BTW, the long-lived Range Rover Classic is officially OUT OF PRODUCTION. The latest official comment from Land Rover is that the Classic will continue in production for the time being (next review due at the end of the year), but there are still contracts to fill with Virgin Atlantic and various Police Forces. Production currently stands at 80 units per week with most if not all pre sold. However, it isn't surprising that it should be phased out from overseas markets as demand begins to declines, or regulation changes require changes to the model. As far as I know there will be no changes to the 1995 model for 1996, with the exception of a reduced model range. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk From "Tom Rowe" Tue Aug 22 07:07:49 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 07:07:49 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Tyre mount > Rob asks: 1) Can anybody try and describe how to use the hood (bonnet(sp?)) mounted spare tire holder. It has 2 bolts and two "cams" as they are called in RN's catalog. snip And Daryl wrote: Ok, place the cams on the bolts such that the longest "leg" is towards the mounting plate. Turn the cams so that the long axis is across the vehicle and the long side is facing outwards. (the cam is slightly curved, sort of like a crescent moon, you want the the two cams to be like this ( ) not ) ( on the mount Get your wheel and put it over the centre of the mount with the front (outside) facing down towards the bonnet, the cams are then turned to clamp the back of the rim down. The long leg of the cam should be touching the top of the mount when the bolts are tightened, if it isnt then you need longer legged cams (there are at least two different sizes ) And I add: On some of the cams (the ones with the longer legs) you can remove the bolt and flip them over if needed (one leg is longer than the other), based on the size tire you have. You will have to remove a cotter pin from the bolt from inside the bonnet, if it's still there. If you need a cam with longer legs, a cheaper alternative is to use a piece of 1x2 between the legs and the plate. That's been my remedy for years on my LR that has the shorter legged cams. It also helps to keep the cam from spinning as you tighten it. Oh yeah, put some NeverSeeze on the bolt threads. I've often found those galvanized bolts a bear to turn. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Tue Aug 22 12:49:23 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 12:49:23 BST From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: Mysteries... Dave, I can't help you on you timing pointer as my Lightweight has a Ford V6 fitted and I can't remember what the old engine had. However I think it could be the problem for your other symptoms. Engines run on because the head is too hot. One reason for the head being too hot is that the timing is too far advanced, which also causes burbling on over-run or engine braking. For some real fun advance it a bit more and it might even give a proper back fire when you lift off at high revs! The leaking silencer also doesn't help as it will reduce the back pressure and cause the mixture to lean out, which also causes hot heads. Also if the beast used to be at low altitude and has now moved to high altitude (please forgive my total ignorance of geography on your side of the Atlantic!) the mixture will also be leaned out and cause the problems. General lack of power however as you describe points towards lean mixture. I would take the car to a garage for a proper tune up. I never bother to set timing and mixture myself, as I don't have all the kit, but I have always saved money by getting more economy after a tune up. The headlamp problem is normal. Check all the earthing and general wire condition. Are you getting even close to 12V at the back of the bulb? After you fix this they still won't work of course, you will just go from dim candle power to dull candle power. Fit halogens if you don't have infra-red vision. Hope all this helps. Steve Reddock. Hampshire, UK. Lightweight V6 called Bastard as it always breaks down. From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 19 18:25:44 1995 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 95 18:25:44 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Snorkle for Defenders ? A company called Mantech which advertises in Land Rover International Magazine manufactures raised air intakes for series II II & III, 90's and 110's. Let me know if you would like address and telephone numbers. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman HAWTEC Tel: +44 (0)1905 723200 Haswell House Fax: +44 (0)1905 613338 Saint Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 19 18:31:20 1995 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 95 18:31:20 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Series III Troubles....... The filter is probably in the bottom of the tank. It is not available as a separate part but comes with the tube, part number 544658. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman HAWTEC Tel: +44 (0)1905 723200 Haswell House Fax: +44 (0)1905 613338 Saint Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 19 18:19:40 1995 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 95 18:19:40 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: RE: Thoroughly Ceased Track Rod! Suggestions for freeing rusted track rod ends: 1) Use heat from butane or propane blow lamp, applying flame principally to tube rather than track rod end. 2) grip the track rod with a pipe wrench (Stilson) or water pump pliers and rotate the track rod. Once freed, work the track rod backwards and forwards until it moves freely. Don't worry too much about wrecking the track rod ends; if they're 16 years old they probably need repalcing anyway..... Hope this helps. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman HAWTEC Tel: +44 (0)1905 723200 Haswell House Fax: +44 (0)1905 613338 Saint Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk From Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Sat Aug 19 21:12:04 1995 Date: Sat, 19 Aug 95 21:12:04 PDT From: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk Subject: Starting Problems: Fuel Vapourisation? Over the past few weeks I have been having problems with starting my 2286 petrol SIIA when it has been standing for more than 15 minutes. I have checked points, timing, carburettor, etc. and everything seems fine. The best suggestion at the moment is that while it is standing the fuel in the carburettor is vapourising, causing delayed starting. We have had unusually high temperatures (high 80's F)in the UK over the last few weeks. I was wondering if anybody in some of the hotter parts of the world had similar problems, or is this not a problem on the L/R? Comments, suggestions please. ------------------------------------- Tony Chapman HAWTEC Tel: +44 (0)1905 723200 Haswell House Fax: +44 (0)1905 613338 Saint Nicholas Street Mobile: 0973 316835 Worcester WR1 1UW E-mail: Tony@hawtec.demon.co.uk From Mr Ian Stuart Tue Aug 22 15:05:53 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 15:05:53 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: More Web pages I've now got some Land Rover stuff on the Web: Celebrities are listed at: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/celebs.html and the Scottish Land Rover Owners Club is at: http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~kiz/SLROC/ Please can people tell me the addresses of their various pages (ie LLoyd & Roy, plus the Glamorgan club and any other UK clubs) Does anyone know if the ARC is on-line yet? (offers anyone?) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From Chris Haslam Tue Aug 22 10:27:41 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 10:27:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam Subject: Bicycle Rack for '88 Range Rover I am interested in a rack for the back of the vehicle, but I seem to have 2 choices: o a very expensive Range Rover type, with which bicycles don't scratch the body, or o Canadian Tire's $100 model, which mounts on a ball hitch (which I would also have to buy), and scratches the RR body Does anyone have a better solution? ...chris haslam From "T.F. Mills" Tue Aug 22 09:19:39 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 09:19:39 -0600 (MDT) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: More Web pages Ian, Glad to have your stuff on the web! Mine is at http://www.du.edu/~tomills/landrover.html It includes links to all the other major sites, and Lloyd's has links to virtually every known site. Todd T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA (NEW HOME PAGE LOCATION: please update your links and bookmarks) From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Aug 22 08:20:35 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 95 08:20:35 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: CD for Disco. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: CD for Disco. Christian, It's been a while now, since I tried to find a CD that would work with my '94 Disco, but I finally found one that fit the plug, (Pioneer CDX-61 I think) but it would absolutely NOT work with the radio. I contacted Crutchfields stereo (1-800-955-3000) to see if they made an adapter so I could use "any" CD changer with it instead of the Land-Rover unit. (I too felt it was too expensive.) At the time (about 9 months ago) they did not. The LR CD can be purchased from ? (Atlantic British, or British Pacific, or Rovers North, ???) for around $550. I thought that was still too high, and bought an FM modulated unit (JVC 12 disk) and it works. I would not recommend this though, because I lost a good deal of power (volume) using the FM modulated unit, and, for me, the Disco radio is already not loud enough. (What can I say, I'm a child of the '60's and '70's.) Also, there is a wee bit of static when listening to the CD's. I thought that it'd be "crystal clear", it's not. My advice, (as if you asked for it or care) is to spend the extra $100-$200 and get the unit made for it from one of the above mentioned places. (After checking again with Crutchfields, that is.) My unit also has a silly remote control thing to operate it, instead of using the radio controls. Good luck! Dave (Speak up, I can't hear you shouting) Brown #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Peter Kutschera Tue Aug 22 17:42:03 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:42:03 +0200 From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Re: More Web pages Web pages: Try http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR If you need some arguments: there is also a (expandable) collection of reasons to own a Landrover :-) Please extend this list! Peter http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter To feed majordomo: 3210 210 10 0 From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 22 95 Aug EDT 1913 Date: 22 Aug 95 13:40:26 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Damn, I hate electrical problems... To the Lucas gods on the list : I am trying to get the headlight/marker light wiring straight on old Churchill, and things are, at the least, not going well... The way the switch is now (the big black barrel-type with the central key), Off == off 1st position: Marker lights, no headlights 2nd position: Headlights, no marker lights It isn't SUPPOSED to do this, is it? Is this a wiring bodge, or is the blasted switch bad? If the switch is bad, I sincerely think I'm going to modify to late S2a and go with bat-handle switches. That huge switch gives me the willies.... Incidentally, anybody heard from Charlie Wright lately? I wonder how his move back to reality, er...the US is going... (It's a JOKE.....humor....) Alan From Richard Jones Tue Aug 22 17:39:16 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 17:39:16 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Subject: More Web pages Ian Stuart writes: > Please can people tell me the addresses of their various pages (ie LLoyd & > Roy, plus the Glamorgan club and any other UK clubs) I am trying to collect as many Rover related URLs as I can find and put them in one place: http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/rover.html Hopefully all the URLs you are looking for are already there. If there are any that should be there but arn't please let me know and I will add them. > Does anyone know if the ARC is on-line yet? (offers anyone?) Not as far as I know. I have put a page together with some basic ARC information at: http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/arc.html If anyone (from the ARC or elsewhere) has any further ARC information they would like me to add to it, let me know and I will see what I can do. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 22 95 Aug EDT 1914 Date: 22 Aug 95 14:36:06 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: SIII For Sale ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From Duncan Brown Tue Aug 22 15:29:29 1995 Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 15:29:29 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Light switch Alan, > The way the switch is now (the big black barrel-type with the central key), > Off == off [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > 2nd position: Headlights, no marker lights > It isn't SUPPOSED to do this, is it? Actually, according to my circa-1962 factory manual, that *is* the way it's supposed to work, for North American applications. You think they read a DOT excerpt wrong or something??? My 1962 TR-4 had it right... When I was bringing my 1960 SII back from the dead, I had all sorts of interesting electrical problems. A large number of them were traceable back to the main power feed being connected to the main electrical system "on"