From Mr Ian Stuart Wed May 31 09:00:15 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:00:15 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Today is the Day! Well, this is it! Assuming that the guy who has rebuilt the vehicle has done a good job, I shall be buying an SIII 109 2.25 petrol this evening How quickly can I get the day to pass??? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- From Mark Perry Wed May 31 03:45:34 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 03:45:34 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Perry Subject: unleaded fuel&c Unleaded fuel has been unavailable in Canada for at least a couple of years now. The PO of my '66 IIA (7:1) was quite definite about using a lead substitute, and I have been faithfully putting the stuff in the tank. Various brands are available hereabouts: STP (sells for about CDN$12 a litre, Canadian Tire's house brand Motomaster, Rislone, I believe has a Pb sub also. About 150 ml does a full tank. A tech rep from the Manitoba Motor League (CAA/AAA affiliate) said one fill in three should be sufficient since the residue should persist on the valves. Now our meddlesome federal government, urged on by Screamin' Sheila Copps, the minister in charge of environment, is about to ban the additive MMT which is used as Pb sub in unleaded fuels in Canada, but is apparently banned in U.S.A. for various toxic reasons. Question is, if the stuff in the store-bought Pb substitute isn't the accursed MMT, what is it, or are we Canucks to be deprived of the stuff that protects our pre-unleaded valves? Lloyd Allison cautions about checking half-shafts after 'hard work' by which I take it he means hard driving? My LH rear shaft snapped of at the diff end splines a couple of weeks back. Had a spare shft, and a spare diff, and had local shop do the job (I just didn't feel like it) Mechanic didn't like look of diff, so he swapped in the spare, provenance unknown, but servicable. New there's a bit of a hum about 2200 rpm in 4th gear, so we'll see how this one goes. More diff work in the offing? Driving around town - even in Winnipeg winter - is hardly hard work, but I had had the shaft out a couple of weeks earlier while replacing a hub seal. I recall a bit of scoring around middle of the the splines then, if that means anything. Is there something I could have nobbled putting the shaft back it? It did seem tight going in the last couple of inches. Heaters. Recent comments most enlightening: It appears then, I have a Kodiak Mk3, lacking a heater control valve, though: fan on, it's hot, hot, hot; fan off, it's no sweat. Open the little door, and my galfriend's knees are toasty. Had to repalce the heater core last fall; lead pipes corroded out. If anyone can give me a p/n for the heater control that goes on the fan housing, I would be most grateful. It mounts with three screws on a triangular base, and I'm told it might be one found on Minis or such at one time. Otherwise, SerII block mount valve OK? Mark Perry Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada 1966 Ser.IIA 88 Petrol Hardtop: "Yes, I can see quite well over the spare tire." From "James" Wed May 31 11:03:25 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 11:03:25 GMT0BST From: "James" Subject: Stereos in SIIs >If one were insane enough to want an audio system of some sort in >a Series IIa, where's the best place to put it? In answer to your query regarding the positioning of a -killer sound system in a series II well... Funnily enough I have just put a radio cassette in my 1960 series II + 7 channel graphic equaliser etc... Well I found that the best place to put it is under the dash, dead centre in that little pannel which has the choke and heater switch in it. If you remove the pannel... not the little insert, the whole pannel approx 35x10 cm. Then move the choke and heater switch elsewhere, cut a hole in that pannel for the radio... Put in radio... Replace pannel, ... Here's the clever bit... Don't put the pannel back as far as it will go, just recess it enough to bolt it under the front of the dash, you will have to block off the engine compartment around the body of the radio, rockwool is adequate but you may want to do a better job... As for speakers.... Best place has to be in the seat boxes as it permits the perception of bass (Even in aLandrover (With engine runnnig!)) doorpannel mounting is good if you don't want to 'hurt' your precious beastie but it doesn't sound a patch on mounting in the seat boxes... even with cheap speakers! Anyway... I shall stop my renting on now... James Curtis: JAMES.CURTIS@NCL.AC.UK From Sanna@aol.com Wed May 31 09:52:15 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 09:52:15 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Parts for RR The only source I've used for used RR parts is Atlantic British. They'll buy a roll-over when they can find one. 1-800-533-2210. Please let me know if you find a junker out there. I could use some interior parts to refurbish my '89. - Tony From Sanna@aol.com Wed May 31 10:09:12 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 10:09:12 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: My '89 RR >The first thing I learned today is that the diodes in the rear defroster circuit and the door->internal light circuits can be switched with any off the shelf diode. I was a wits end trying to figure why these circuits weren't working, until I noticed these funny black cylinders. Crack them open, and you'll find any old off the Radio Shack shelf diode. I soddered in some new ones (rated for 2.5 A and 100 V) ...for those of you with circuit problems. With summer now here, it's time for me to start chasing down the winter bugs in my '89 RR too. My rear defroster doesn't work either (amoung other things). Although the diodes may not be the place to start looking for the problem, it's a possibility. Where are they located and how do you tell if they're bad? Another trouble spot is the heater/defroster. I have an idea that the intake is stuck on recirculate, since the car fogs quickly and almost permanently in wet weather. Using the defroster just makes it worse. Any idea on how to check this? Also, when I bought the car, the PO had replaced the heated windshield with a standard one. If I replace this one, does this option work well enough to warrant the $300 extra bucks? Thanks. - Tony From Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> 31 95 May EDT 1911 Date: 31 May 95 11:51:14 EDT From: Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> Subject: Land Rover Parts Are there any Land Rover dealers in the US that sells parts via mail order at a discount? I get parts for my Mercedes from a dealer in California that sells them at a minimum 25% discount from list. I would like to continue using OEM parts on my Rover, but the only dealer here charges full list. Am I the only guy that hates to pay list price? Anyone? From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed May 31 09:16:52 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 95 09:16:52 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Stereos in SIIs In message <199505311006.FAA07756@butler.uk.stratus.com> "James" writes: ; >If one were insane enough to want an audio system of some sort in ; >a Series IIa, where's the best place to put it? ; ; Funnily enough I have just put a radio cassette in my 1960 series II ; + 7 channel graphic equaliser etc... ; ; Well I found that the best place to put it is under the dash, dead ; centre in that little pannel which has the choke and heater switch in ; it. If you remove the pannel... not the little insert, the whole ; pannel approx 35x10 cm. Then move the choke and heater switch ; elsewhere, cut a hole in that pannel for the radio... Put in ; radio... Replace pannel, ... Here's the clever bit... Don't put ; the pannel back as far as it will go, just recess it enough to bolt ; it under the front of the dash, you will have to block off the ; engine compartment around the body of the radio, rockwool is ; adequate but you may want to do a better job... ; ; As for speakers.... ; ; Best place has to be in the seat boxes as it permits the perception ; of bass (Even in aLandrover (With engine runnnig!)) doorpannel ; mounting is good if you don't want to 'hurt' your precious beastie ; but it doesn't sound a patch on mounting in the seat boxes... even ; with cheap speakers! James, I take it you keep your Land Rover dry. There are some of us who occasionally get their cars wet and may find your stereo placement under water. I'm not sure how being submerged affects the base response but it probably causes problems with the high end response.. If you keep the top on, I might suggest adding a stereo wide shelf just abouve the front window. There would be space there for a stereo, pair of downward facing speakers, second set of rear facing speakers, amplifier, CB, reading lamps and some map storrage. You can run a fused hot line and ground wire up inside the middle window channel. You can even pad the leading lower edge for safety and finish it off in the same style as your headliner. I saw one variation of this where the radios hide away out of view when not in use. I generally try not to wade any deeper than half way up my seat box, but some people I know, like Jim Rusell, are trying to get their seat cushons approved as flotation devices TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From Charlie Wright Wed May 31 17:32:51 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 17:32:51 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Old Windscreen Wipers All right folks, a mundane but important wiper query. I have the old motors, I've got the rebuild instructions, I have the technology, I can rebuild them... BUT I can't get blades for the old-style Lucas chrome wiper arms. They have the odd 'spoon' connector (not the 'spade' or 'bayonet' connector). There is a company who does 'classic' wiper ARMS for these cars (chrome, Lucus style) which take the modern 'bayonet' style blades (Bosch, Hella, etc) but these are still too new to fit the old wiper motors. They have a clamp connector at the base that is about 1" across. The old spindles are about 1/4" accross. Oops. <-spindle tip <-spindle tip ==============++==== ===============-, ,-== '==' New 'bayonet' Old 'spoon' I actually went to Lucas' parts counter. They no longer make the blades OR the arms. They make no replacement. They have no idea what to suggest. Perhaps Land-Rover has them he suggested. I asked the nice man where he thought Land-Rover got them, since they were stamped LUCUS!? He agreed that they might have come from Lucus. (Does Lucus _make_ its own employees?) Good grief. Does anyone have the solution? (or a pair of middle aged arms with the new bayonet fittings and the old thin spindle clamp?) My _late_ IIa had thin spindles AND bayonette connectors, so they exist. Cheers, Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From William Caloccia Wed May 31 13:52:38 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 95 13:52:38 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: ARC Nat'ls/ The List / Audio / Audi's / un-PC LRO's / !Pb / RR Steering / Delco alt Hi All, Well, I went off to the ARC Nationals and left Majordomo to it, and he's kept things running well for the weekend while I was out getting at tan at a Lincolnshire Beach [well not much water, but lots of sun and sand :-) ]. I, and my RR survived the ARC Nationals, barring the sprung bonnet latch, which now ceases to keep the bonnet shut at speeds in excess of 73 mph. While there I met Stefan Jacob, as well as Gunther & some of friends who brought with them an ample supply of German Beer, cold to keep it in, and some plum liquor (25% ABV), which was wicked sweet. There was not international clubs meeting, apparently due to lack of preparation, and the 'preceived' absence of international members, though US, Germany, Norway and NZ were represented amoung others. I've got a few extra copies of the 1995 ARC handbook, with copies reserved for Sandy Grice and Dixon Kenner, (pending their addresses and my return from holiday). I made the trip up on Friday, and set about to add secondary return springs and what not to the motor for scrutineering. What happened next is the plastic ball cup on the end of the throttle linkage rod went to bits, and then the Penine men helped me sort it out, evenutally borrowing one from another motor. I got into the scruitneering line sometime about 10:30, and finished at about 12:15, failing. (problems described below) The Yorkshire lads invited me to show up the next morning at 7am to work on the motor, and then we were off to the beer tent. I left after a bit, though as I didn't get much sleep, it probably wouldn't have matter if I stayed 'til later with 'em. Saturday at 7 I showed up and drove half on their ramp truck, scrounged the massive socket set, tightened the steering drop arm retaining nut, and then spent the better part of an hour to remove, clean, re-pack and (more difficult) replace the drop-arm ball joint, tightened a couple other things and made it to scruitneering at 8:25. Then set off to find my navigator, a Pennine ROC man from Lancs. I queued up the the RR and we were off to the RTV. All the events were in two quarries, which offered a variety of terrain and lots of elevation changes, with few trees and things to hit (aside from the rock wall or major boulder). Word has it the only incident in the RTV was a D90 driver who rear-ended a lightwieght while convoying to the next section. Unfortunately, the military hitch took out the D90's radiator. The Lincolnshire club had most of it extreemly well organized, (except for a few couple marshals who didn't have a clear idea of where their next section was in the quarry). The trade stands were decent and a bunch of vendors were there, Land Rover itself was not, but that makes for a better selection of vendors (non-LR dealers selling LR parts, & aftermarket etc.) Scrutineering was open 24 hours from Friday through the start of the Comp Safari on Monday. Food vendors were in both quarries, as well as on-site at the camps. One of the grocers (Co-op) had a mobile food store there, milk wagons made the round of the camps each morning. The only thing missing was a rack of BT pay phones and a cash machine. You really couldn't ask for much more. All this and the main camp site was moved five miles the week before the event. Once you got there, you'd never have known. The host club really ran the event well. Sunday I did some buying, and drove up to Lincoln to find an ATM, then returned to take some photos of Pennine friends running the CCVT. Stefan and I found some of the ARC leadership and discussed the international meeting, or lack there of. Monday I went and marshalled on the Comp Safari, and got stuck in the middle of the quarry, and didn't have much fun at all. After that was the awards and then I hung out with friends from Pennine at their end-of-the-rally BBQ, and got a late start back to London [leaving at 2300 and arriving at 0200, with liberal stops for fresh air, caffine and closing the bonnet]. Here are some responses to recent articles: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Audio Systems mounting + cubby box instead of middle seat - top of bulkhead (little shelf above console) ! with 1 metre of wiring extra and toss it back on the floor after tuning, or leave on center seat whilst wading (my personal mode of installation) + Hardtop: mount above windscreen (hanging from roof, or make shelf across top) + in seat box with remote control (seal it up before wading ! ) - down between your legs, just watch the coffee & crumbs (I put a CB there speakers: rear of hard top facing forward, mounted top corners or middle corners (rim of pick-up) or forward facing from rear, or middle top sides +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ tonyy@ntalpha.nt.bom.gov.au (Tony Yates) writes: > In Australia the government has been trying to persuade those of us with > pre-unleaded vehicles to use unleaded (via 2c tax) > Presumably this has also been the case in the UK and US In the US, the EPA outlawed lead additives, and the last of it went of the market a few years ago (at consumer pumps), earlier in CA and the N.E. than in middle America, due to CARB (CA Air Resources Board) requirements, etc. In the UK, they released a report last summer that said unleaded is a 'worse' pollutant than leaded, where most of the vehicle fleet is neither controlled injection nor catalyzed, as the incomplete combustion of unleaded on start-up produces far more partially combusted hydrocarbons and noxious emissions, etc. UK Market prices seems to placed leaded more expensive than not (more octane), but I've not been 'round long enough to know if this includes more tax. > Darwin RFC > Bureau of Meteorology Gee, why would a rugby football club care about the weather ? :-) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Well, S.W. Brierley points out that: - environmentalists don't like LRO's 'cause they got gas guzzling polluting engines, and the vehicles last forever so they don't get replaced with new more efficiently powered vehicles - parents don't like LRO's 'cause they've got the roo bars might be more injurious than the slab-sided face of a rover - Land Owners (& eco-hikers) don't like LRO's 'cause they go about tearing up the land, injuring trees and killing animals Well, I guess that means LRO's are then just politically incorrect... [Glad I bought that sticker at the ARC in Lincs "Tested on Animals"] +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ kgb@tigger.cc.uic.edu (Ken Berliner) writes about RR steering: check the following: * pinch bolts on the u-joint prior to the steering relay * steering drop arm vertical movement (loose retaining nut), then, * steering drop arm ball joint vertical movement other steering track rod ends (being replaced today) [it helps to have someone turning the steering wheel while you're examining these things, ball joints can als be checked with giant slip joint pliers for vertical movement] (* all of which scrutineering failed me for the night before the ARC National RTV, [not to mention two loose rear prop shaft bolts and the other two were AWOL] but the Yorkshire lads (running the 'Thunderbird' badged motors), invited me to drop by bright and early Saturday morn' and Martin helped me sort it all out, using his ramp truck and 3/4" socket set and refitting the drop arm ball joint after removal and re-packing, which I did in the rain, etc.) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Kelly Minnick writes, RE: delco altenators: I found three things were required: - reduce the thickness of one of the alt. mounts so the front pulley was in the plane with the other pulleys - increase the diameter of the rover generator mount, or insert collar to reduce diameter of delco mounting hole - use a different length belt + i don't know if I was able to use the standard bar for adjusting or had to get a different one. also be aware that the delco's have a number of different mounting configurations, but essentially there are two different patterns for the mounting tabs on the case, and their mirror configuration (for high or low on right or left side of the block) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Torsen Diff's I think Audi uses these - a $1600 retro fit for a Sierra/Merkur XR4... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ kgb@tigger.cc.uic.edu (Ken Berliner) writes ? > I need a center console for my 89 RR, its the part that holds the center > glove box and has the window switches on it as well as the auto-trans > indicator. center glove box ? switched windows ? auto-trans ? whuz that ? :-) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Well, my motor is in the shop getting checked over before I go on holiday, doing the brake work I didn't get to, some track rod ends, and what not. Then I'm off to Le Shuttle and over through France to Italy. I'm out from the 1st to the 19th, so hopefully Majordomo will keep the list marching on. 'til later, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, because |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R ul N H '72 Range Rover From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed May 31 13:40:19 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 95 13:40:19 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Questions questions? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Questions questions? Hi Jeff. I have been examining your Land Rover pictures, and have a few questions... Does your CD player skip? Is it a changer? (Multiple discs) and what type is it? How do you attach the roll bar? Is it attached to the frame in some way? Or just bolted to the bed? Where did you get it? Do you still have your wiper motor? I like the speakers and location, but would not like to lose the wipers, how did you do this? Are your speakers waterproof? (Marine type.) Have you considered mounting the CD or radio under the drivers seat? In the "tool box/battery holder"? (That's where the PO of my "88 mounted a radio, you can still see the holes.) Not sure I'd like this location though... Does your heater "heat"? Can you feel much air flowing from it, or is it more like... "wait a minute... I think I feel it... yes... there IS air coming out... " What size/type tires are those? Any clearance problems? Again, very nice looking "88!! My compliments! #=====# #========# -------,___ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500) (Too hard to "draw") #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Steven M Denis Wed May 31 18:20:53 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 18:20:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: converter The reasons I have not installed an converter on the 109 are: Money...they cost, I ain't got...it does run with out it... The best location for it would increase the heat in the driver's footwell.....And wouldn't *that* be dandy....8-0 As long as you can only get unleaded, why not go the whole route? you cannot fight city hall on this one...It is somewhat like the "tread Lightly" program here in the states...show some signs of respectbility and most folks leave you alone...it ain't gunna kill ya to have a converter on the 2.25...and having one will prevent the Greenies from legislating your 2.25 off the road...how's about a preemptive strike? everyone get a converter installed and make a big promotion with the media? You know, those *great* Land Rover people..and here all this time we thought they were all hooligans!...think about it.... steve...... flame away..but watch the stack temp., we don't want any NOX !!!!! "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis PO Box 296 Fulton, New York USA 13069 From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Wed May 31 22:36:33 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 22:36:33 GMT From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: Dumb question: Audio install in a SII? >>If one were insane enough to want an audio system of some sort in >>a Series IIa, where's the best place to put it? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >IIa just about centered on the shift knob when the Rover is in reverse. >(Yes, have a Kodiak heater.) It's not insanity, eh. Mine is also under the dash, but located under the steering wheel between the drivers knees. The heater stopped me from fitting it more centrally. The speakers are fitted into the plywood door panels. I'd probably put it above the windshield if I never took the hardtop off. From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed May 31 22:14:15 1995 Date: Wed, 31 May 1995 22:14:15 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Camel trophy Daily Logs Central America is experiencing its hottest and driest May in over two decades. Consequently, the mud for which the Camel Trophy is justly famous, has set into concrete. Tuesday, May 30th - "The Calm Before the Storm" The Camel Trophy crossed back into Guatamala Monday evening and entered Honduras on Tuesday. Though it has been extremely dry, the deep glutinous mud at the Rio Jupilingo border crossing claimed many vehicles; it was a good day for winching. Tuesday turned out to be a relatively easy day, as the participants were given a half day to explore the ruins and hieroglyphs in a around Copan. This was to be last breather before the punishing final week of the event. At present, the plans call for the team to follow Cortez's route around the western edge of Lago Izabal back into Guatamela towards the finish in Xunnantunich back in Belize. The team will spend two or more days attempting to retrace part of the route that the conquistadors took up the coast of Guatamala...a route that has not been used in centuries. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> 01 95 Jun EDT 1900 Date: 01 Jun 95 00:16:35 EDT From: Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> Subject: Towing I own a '95 Range Rover 4.0 SE. I would like to tow an Airstream trailer with it. According to the manual, tFrom "S.W.Brierley" Thu Jun 1 10:16:51 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 10:16:51 +0100 From: "S.W.Brierley" Subject: Stromberg to SU Conz on V8?? Hi fellow LRO's I have a 76 SER III SWB with a 3.5Ltr V8 fitted under the bonnet. It currently runs a set of 175CD Stromberg Carbs, which aren't performing that brilliantly. I would like to convert over to a set of SU-HIF carbs and would appreciate any help/hints/comments from anyone with any knowledge or experience of this conversion. Mine has already had the linkage replaced by a throttle cable to allow the connection to the Strombergs, so that part isn't a problem. Can anyone recommend good donors, or does anyone have a decent set of SU's that they may be willing to trade in. Oh, and yes i do know that there are companies in the uk that do the complete kits, but the price put me off a little!!!! OOps the Subject should read Stromberg to SU conv on V8. .....sorry. Thanks in advance for any help offered. Huh huhh huh huh Landrovers kick ass..... cool. Stu. swb@dl.ac.uk From "Steve Methley" Thu Jun 1 12:11:53 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 12:11:53 +0100 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: Stromberg to SU Conz on V8?? S.W.Brierley writes: >currently runs a set of 175CD Stromberg >Carbs, which aren't performing that brilliantly. >I would like to convert over to a set of SU-HIF carbs Your cheapest option is to rebuild the Stombergs for 12 quid each. There honestly isn't a great advantage in going to SU's. I've had both. There is a small advantage in mixture setting ease on the HIF's however, maybe this is what you're after? Also purely personally I liked the separate chokes of the SU's over the balance pipe of the ZS's. Neither reason is enough to change. You'll get 20mpg from either set up. (racers use SU's mainly because of the wider range of needles available by the way) Cheers, Steve. From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Jun 1 12:33:58 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 12:33:58 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: *that* *word* :< >... cool. AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhh Someone used *that* *word* again!!! it should be excised from the human conciousness! BTW - I bought a 109 (1st registered dec 1st, 1980) last night & I'm in love all over again -- the world is a wonderful place!!! ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- From Lloyd Allison Thu Jun 1 21:39:19 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 21:39:19 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Rover style half-shafts I wouldn't worry about little marks on the splines at the diff' end. Apparently the splines can twist, through many degrees, under "abuse" a bit like a cork-screw, but they (sometimes) don't break until much later. So a check at home (only takes a moment) can save a lot of bother later. I must say this only applies to rear Rover-style diff's, especially S2, S2A long-wheel bases. Salisbury diff's and half-shafts are very strong. Lloyd From Karl Kurz Thu Jun 1 07:45:26 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 07:45:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Karl Kurz Subject: digest unsub Sir, I have been trying to unsubscribe to lro-digest for the last few days....the return mail claims succss, but the journal still gets delivered. I'm off for the summer and need to slow down the incoming. Thanks From NADdMD@aol.com Thu Jun 1 08:05:10 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 08:05:10 -0400 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Changing Water Temperature Sending Units I am attempting to replace the water temp sending unit on my 67 88 IIa. The old sensor is a simple cylindrical structure which sets in a threaded seat and held in place by a large nut. The new sender unit is threaded and has a hex head on the side where the electrical clip is. I was told that the old sensors no longer are available and that the new sensors fit after removing the old threaded seat from the head. How does one do this? Can I just put a large threaded nut on the old seat and screw in the new sensor at the other end? Additional note: The Haynes shop manual has an error in the electrical section. The picture labelled temperature sending unit is really the cold start sending unit. I'm sure many of you have already noted this but I thought I 'd mention it. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks Nate Dunsmore Boring MD, USA (410)828-2704 From paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Thu Jun 01 22:05:46 1995 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 22:05:46 +1000 From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Subject: Need help in RSA > I am looking for LR's in the RSA for this summer. I am looking for > farm near Tzaneen about a company called BellTrade that can get me what I Belltrade are in Pretoria, and are in the phone book. They also advertise in all the 4x4 rags, so it's not hard to find them. I don't have a Pretorai phone book handy, so I can't give you their number off-hand. Also look at Leimer's Land-Rovers in Johannesburg, and, as a last resort, Rhino Rovers in Midrand (1/2 way between Joburg and Pretoria). While you're in Pretoria en route to Belltrade, call in at Peco Motors (Church St, near Lion Bridge, tel +27 12 3238941) and talk to Mike or Willie. They are the LR agents (expensive), but have lots of contacts, are nice people, and may point you in the direction of someone with Land-Rovers to sell. From Carl Byrne Thu Jun 1 13:28:56 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:28:56 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Gun box price Old news now perhaps, but some one was asking for the UK price for gun box, part no. STC 8018. I was quoted 145 pounds sterling - I guess this was typical trade price. Regards Carl.Dr. Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From Carl Byrne Thu Jun 1 13:32:18 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:32:18 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Electrical connector source. Does anybody know who makes/supplied the connectors used throughout the new Landrover range. I am getting fed up of having to scrounge them from Parts Technical when I modify the wiring (fit new radio, near rear lights etc. etc). I guess they are to some new europian standard? Can anybody help? Regards Carl Dr. Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From William Caloccia Thu Jun 01 09:04:07 1995 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 09:04:07 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: Roy is unreachable for a few weeks -B ------- Forwarded Message From jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Thu Jun 1 09:28 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 09:28 EDT From: jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Subject: RR prototype There are a couple of pictures and some information about a Range Rover prototype (for the original model, not the most recent) in the latest issue of Automobile Quarterly. They are in an article about the Rover company. For production, they definitly improved the looks of the front end. James From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Jun 01 08:23:19 1995 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 08:23:19 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Defroster FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Defroster Scott, (I think?) Try turning on the air conditioner compressor when using the defroster to defog the windows. The A/C removes moisture from the air. Works real well!! Those of us with series LR's are out of luck with this one. I suppose it's a good thing to have a nearby towel to wipe the window with. Good luck, #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "Matthew Holding (AUS)" <100036.2103@compuserve.com> 01 95 Jun EDT 1911 Date: 01 Jun 95 11:48:15 EDT From: "Matthew Holding (AUS)" <100036.2103@compuserve.com> Subject: OIL PRESSURE IN V8 Instead of the usual lack of oil pressure I have a 1970 Rover V8 that seems to have too much. The engine has recently has new gaskets and compression is good and runs really well but it insists on blowing oil up through the breather system into the air cleaner. This wastes a lot of paper elements... After a few days driving the reverse happens - it has blown its oil out the top and now has a lack of pressure. I am tempted to put a cork in every hole in the breather system, but they will probably just pop out :-) Any ideas - our local club members have drawn a blank. HELP... Matthew Holding - South Australia (Also presently fixing a big hole in a Series One piston. The engine was running fine even with a hole my thumb fits through... quality engineering !) From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Jun 01 09:15:39 1995 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 09:15:39 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Drag link on an 88 FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Drag link on an 88 Hello Roverheads! I started using the '71 IIa 88 that I recently bought, and with your help, passed emissions and is now legal! Now, the little things that need attention start to surface.... I went to Tombstone Arizona, about 180 or so miles south of where I live, (actually I took the 88 AND the 109, as we had lots of people) but didn't do anything trying for the vehicles. Only some easy trails, nothing to write home about. Didn't even use 4wd. Anyway, several days later, I used the 88, and the first time I backed up, the tie rod fell out of the drag link, and I had the tires facing opposite directions! (Glad this didn't happen on the freeway!) I just popped it back in and tightened up the bolt that clamps around the tie rod end. My question is this: Is the drag link supposed to have "threads" to help hold the tie rod end? Or is it supposed to be smooth? Mine is basically smooth, (warn?) so I wondered if I need to replace this??? I think I have the terminology correct, but in case I don't, I'm talking about the straight rod that connects the two tires. Thanks for your replys! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "Steve Methley" Thu Jun 1 17:21:49 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 17:21:49 +0100 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: OIL PRESSURE IN V8 Matthew Holding (AUS) <100036.2103@compuserve.com> writes: >Instead of the usual lack of oil pressure I have a 1970 Rover V8 that seems to >have too much. The engine has recently has new gaskets and compression is go >and runs really well but it insists on blowing oil up through the breather This is not too much oil pressure, this is blowby. Ie the pistons rings are not sealing well and you have high crankcase pressure, not good. If the breather system is working properly and you still have this problem, start saving up pennies now. What is the actual oil pressure? >After a few days driving the reverse happens - it has blown its oil out the t >and now has a lack of pressure Oh dear, it just seems to get worse doesn't it. What's the pressure now? The V8 should never really put out much more than 35psi from the pump - it's designed for high flow tho'. Blowby at idle is mild. Take off the oil filler cap from a rocker cover and feel the blow-by pressure on your hand. An oil flush or upper cylinder lubricant may help you. Cheers, Steve. From ajm@mda.ca (Alex McLellan) Thu Jun 1 09:45:40 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 09:45:40 PDT From: ajm@mda.ca (Alex McLellan) Subject: Old Windscreen Wipers ISTR that my '54 Morris Minor had the same design. Spoon-shape connection, perfectly straight blade for a flat winscreen. So, try the Morris Minor Centre in Bath. Sorry, no address/phone, but BT will tell you! Regards Alex (ajm@mda.ca - not speaking for mda) From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Thu Jun 1 12:54:24 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 12:54:24 -0400 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Questions questions? After viewing the photos of my Rover, David Brown asks: >Does your CD player skip? Is it a changer? (Multiple discs) and what >type is it? The CD player is a Sony 10-disc changer with a 3 second digital delay to prevent skipping. It's not foolproof, it occasionaly skips (it *hates* dirty discs), and will periodically misfeed a new disk if you're traveling over rough terrain -- Like I-95 in Connecticut, "The Construction State" -- while it's changing. Overall, however, it's quite satisfactory. I don't remember the model off the top of my head, but can provide if so asked. Source: Crutchfield >How do you attach the roll bar? Is it attached to the frame in some way? >Or just bolted to the bed? Where did you get it? The rollbar was originally through bolted into collars welded to the frame. While this was sturdy enough to protect during a rollover, the bar shimmied back and forth in an unseeming manner. It's now welded into the collars, and would have to be cut out with a torch or grinder. A while back Steve Denis sent me Email, and also posted to the list, that rollbars should not be fastened to the frame. Essentially, his arguement went that if the body mounts broke, you could be wedged between the frame/rollbar and the body. After some additional consultation, including an examination as to how Safety Devices (who do the Camel Trophy bars) mount their stuff, I decided to ignore his advice and had it attached to the frame. My reasoning: if the body sides gave with a body attached bar the sandwich would be the same, and I (and Safety Devices apparently) have more faith in the frame mounted bar. The point load during a rollover would be less on the body mounts than on the attachment points of a body-mounted rollbar. Thanks to Steve for his input though, it really had me thinking for a while. >Do you still have your wiper motor? I like the speakers and location, >but would not like to lose the wipers, how did you do this? It's in there. I have the single speed, single motor wipers. The speakers are the ADS 320i model mounted onto flat 1/8" aluminum plates. The woofer is inside a cutout, but there is a collar (provided) that reduces the intrusion of the woofer magnet behind the plate. The tweeters mount flush. It's close, but everything fits without any major contortions. The real question is whether I'll be able to fit two speed wipers w/ washers... Speaker crossovers are in the rear tool enclosure, but would probably fit behind the speaker mounting plates if you so desired. >Are your speakers waterproof? (Marine type.) Nope, just regular auto speakers. They probably wouldn't be too bothered by an occasional rain drop, but I wouldn't subject them to flooding and expect long life. The speaker choice was automatic, these very units have been in my previous two cars, and I may go a different route when I finally replace them. >Have you considered mounting the CD or radio under the drivers seat? In >the "tool box/battery holder"? Nope. I like to fool with the sounds too much. I need line of sight to the stereo. >Does your heater "heat"? Can you feel much air flowing from it, or is it >more like... "wait a minute... I think I feel it... yes... there IS air >coming out... " Air definitely moves, but it's not always very hot. I'd describe it as "taking the chill off" more than heating. However, I'm unhappy with the core, and have had some small coolant leaks with the right hand heater knob pulled out. Roverworks has promised to look into the core when I next have the truck in. Meanwhile, I survived winter! (Though it was very mild this year.) In the foolish questions of my own category, would anyone care to explain what that knob does exactly? I know the top, white knob is the fan, and the lower left black knob turns the heater on. The lower right knob remains an unused mystery due to the leakage that occurs whenever I pull it out. Could this be the key to all that "awesome" Kodiak heat I'm not getting? >What size/type tires are those? Any clearance problems? They are Cooper 235 x 85/16 radials. Originally we were installing the CTD model, but I think that may have changed at the last minute for a less agressive model. (95% of my driving is city or interstate.) I'll try to remember to check tonight. If I don't get back on this tomorrow send me back channel mail to jog my memory. No clearance problems that I've noticed yet. >Again, very nice looking "88!! My compliments! Thank you. It's gratifying to hear. I hope this info proves useful. Keep on Roverin'! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= Look what happens when you love someone, and they don't love you. --Warren Zevon, The Heartache == == From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Jun 01 10:02:13 1995 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 95 10:02:13 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Re: Drag link on an 88 FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Re: Drag link on an 88 OH S*&%!!! I drove it to work this morning!!! If you never hear from me again, it's been a joy!!! Don't take any blame for my death, I've been warned... I'm going to "crawl" home with the beast! Pray for me!!! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead *** Reply to note of 06/01/95 09:54 ========================================================================= Thu, 01 Jun 95 09:54:07 MST id AA25868; Thu, 1 Jun 1995 09:56:44 -0700 id AA23892; Thu, 1 Jun 95 12:56:44 EDT From Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> 01 95 Jun EDT 1913 Date: 01 Jun 95 13:08:17 EDT From: Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> Subject: RR Hello Ben!....Mind if I call you Ben? So, you haven't taken you SE off road yet? You're missing the best part! I broke my engine in for about 800 mi. before going off road, but that is all! This thing is serious in the bush. I mean really excellent! After you get past that first little scratch, you'll want to take it off road all the time. My tail pipe is black as well. The engine runs well and I'm getting about 16-17 mpg on the road, so I don't care if it's black. By the way, my Mercedes is really black too. I haven't had any parts fall off yet, but the console lid doesn't fit well. The dealer ordered a new one (back-order of course). While I do love this vehicle, there are two things that bug me. First is the climate control. The fan speed seams to adjust only according to how much sun is shining and does not care about the temp. difference between the set temp. and actual. I'm not sure where you live, but here in Phoenix, the temp. can be very high even at night. I can set the control down to 60 degrees or even to LO and the fan still runs too slow. The car will never get down to the set temp. unless I override the fan. Also, in the morning if the temp is set to anything but LO, I get only hot air for about a mile or so. It seams to be waiting for the engine to warm up before releasing cold air. If it is set to LO, I get cold air in just a few seconds. Does your climate control display these same symptoms? Second, the transmission is not very smart. You mention the refinement of Lexus. Did you own one? I did and that trans was very smart. In the RR, as you ascend a hill the trans will down shift if you lose some speed, but then it up shifts as soon as it regains its speed. Then it will do this over and over and...... Is yours the same? Almost everything in this car is controlled by computer. In light of that fact, these two problems really seam out of line. It just seams like they quit before they were finished. Changed my oil at 1,000 as well and I will definitely be going to Mobil 1 at 7,500. Have done so with all my cars. I change ever 7,500. Some think that is too long in between, but I've been doing it this way for many years. These synthetic oils are great! Anyway, get that RR off the beaten path! You won't regret it! Just remember, if you do break something, ANYTHING can be repaired! Brian Imdieke Phoenix, AZ 1993 500SEL 1994 S500 coupe 1995 RR 4.0 SE From Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> 01 95 Jun EDT 1913 Date: 01 Jun 95 13:08:14 EDT From: Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Land Rover & Mercedes Parts Yes, my '95 RR is under warranty for a long time. When it comes to parts, I'm not worried about this thing breaking, but rather I'm looking for accessories and *maintenance* parts. And yes, I *always* wave! (or flash the lights) From Dixon Kenner Thu Jun 1 13:17:29 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:17:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Drag link on an 88 On Thu, 1 Jun 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote: > OH S*&%!!! I drove it to work this morning!!! Yeah, so? it made it... :-) > If you never hear from me again, it's been a joy!!! Don't take any blame > for my death, I've been warned... Just modify your will to send the Land Rover products this way... I could use the rear box on your 109 station wagon... :-) > I'm going to "crawl" home with the beast! Pray for me!!! If it lasted this long, it will last until you get home. If you prefer the 109 over the 88, steal the drag link from the 88. BTW, its called the steering track rod, LR part #526994 At RN it costs $75.00, at ABP its $129.95. In the UK, expect somewhere in the order of 15-20 pounds maximum. Rgds, From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Jun 1 10:21:11 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 10:21:11 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Drag link on an 88 > My question is this: Is the drag link supposed to have "threads" to help > hold the tie rod end? Or is it supposed to be smooth? Mine is basically > smooth, (warn?) so I wondered if I need to replace this??? Sounds like what I'd call the tie rod. Yes, it's supposed to have threads. Don't drive it until you get threads. There are six of these joints in the steering system, a pair on each end of the three rods. One end is right hand thread, one end is left hand thread, so you can loosen the little clamps and adjust the lenth by turning the rod. Get some new ones soon. The threads in the rod may be stripped out also. Please check. The lenth of the one that fell off (tie rod) is important as it adjusts the "toe in" of your front wheels. They should be ~1/8" closer together at the front. This keeps the machine from wandering all over the road. If you do not feel qualified to make this adjustment, any tire shop can do it, even if they have never seen a Land Rover before. The lenth of the other two rods is not as important, they only affect where the steering wheel points, when you are going straight down the road. Suggestion: Call each of the three parts dealers listed. Beg or purchase a catalog from each one. The illutrations in these catalogs are the best shop manual you can buy, and if you play your cards right you can get all three for free! Order a "pair" of tie rod ends from each one and ask for a catalog. A pair will cost about $25. Atlantic British Ltd Box 110 Rover Ridge Drive Mechanicville, NY 12118 (800) 533-2210 Orders only (518) 664-6169 Technical questions (518) 664-6641 Fax Free catalog Lots of aftermarket parts Many "oem" parts, but not Land Rover authorized British Pacific 3317 Burton Ave. Burbank, CA 91504 Tel.(818)841-8945 800-554-4133 Fax.(818)841-3825 Rovers North Box 61 Route 128 Westford, VT 05494 (802) 879-0032 Authorized Land Rover parts supplier Free catalog Regards, Bill G. PS; Don't drive it until you get threads From MarcBowen@aol.com Thu Jun 1 13:27:45 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 13:27:45 -0400 From: MarcBowen@aol.com Subject: Re: #2(2) The Land Rover Owne... unsuscribe lro-digest From Steven Ballard Thu Jun 1 18:28:18 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 18:28:18 +0100 From: Steven Ballard Subject: S.C.O.R. Open Day, 16th July. Dear all, I have been asked to let people know about a club open day event in July. The event is being organised by the Southern Counties Off Road club ( SCOR ). Admission to the event is free, but the usual club fees and regulations apply if you want to enter the trial or safari. The idea of the event is to attract some more club members. Below are all the details from the poster designed for the event. If you need any more information please mail me. Anyone who can attend will be very welcome. Steven Ballard. Info from the poster: OPEN DAY, JULY 16th 1995 BRICK KILN FARM, FOURMARKS, ALTON, HAMPSHIRE, ENGLAND .Special Attractions: Modified Trials, Timed Safari, Static Displays, Trade Stands .Off-Road Course and Gymkana for newcomers DIRECTIONS: Brick Kiln farm is 1/2 mile west of Alton on the A31 ALL POTENTIAL OFF-ROADERS WELCOME From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Jun 1 10:36:34 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 10:36:34 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Towing I have noticed the same admonition in my RR manual. I think the ban on equalizing hitches is due to their worry that it might interfere with the action of the air suspension or in my case the Boge Hydromat gizmo that was on coil sprung Range Rovers. The same does not apply to Discoverys and Defenders, which have ordinary coil suspensions. I think you'll find that when you hook up the trailer, the air suspensiuon will magically level the vehicle, performing at least one of the functions of a load equalizing hitch. The other function, transferring weight off the rear wheels onto the front wheels, will not happen, but I doubt if that's a problem problem. Yous SHOULD still use a sweay control on the hitch to reduce sudeways sideways trailer sway. I tow a 20 foot house trailer with mine, and find the sway control essential but can live without the load equalizer, even though the old Boge load leveller doesn't work as well as the air suspension for levelling up the car. The tongue weight you speak of does seem kind of hefty so you might want to look at at a lighter one. The payload of the 4.0 SE is less than the old RRs so you could end up overloading it, but on the other hand the chassis is immensely strong so you'd probably be ok with careful smooth driving. Let us know how you get on -- it's great to have a 4.0 SE owner on the list!! Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Jun 1 10:52:54 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 10:52:54 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: RR Great to see that you guys are into off-roading with your 4.0 SEs. The more I have read about the vehicle the better the reviews of its off-road prowess semm seem to get. In the latest Rovers North newsletter there is a nice review pointing out that even though the wheel travel figures are down a bit, articulation is just as good, and you actually gain more articulation in the high profile mode. I guess the ride softens up a bit in high profile too,m which is clever and needed for off-road use. Be sure to send in reports of your experiences so the rest of us can drool Cheers John Brabyn Mill Valley, Ca 89 RR From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 1 14:20:29 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 14:20:29 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Defroster >Try turning on the air conditioner compressor when using the defroster to defog the windows. The A/C removes moisture from the air. Works real well!! Those of us with series LR's are out of luck with this one. On my IIa I keep a squeegee on the dash. But back to the '89 RR. I never have really figured out the heating system on the car. I understand the fan switch, the floor/screen switch, and the vent open/close switch (I think), but the function switch is confusing. Going left to right, first there is the A/C position. This is pretty clear. Select this and cold air pours out the dash vents and nowhere else. The next one, however, is a mystery. This is the position marked with the two arrows, a blue one on top and a white one on the bottom. When this is selected the twin auxilliary electric cooling fans in front of the radiator kick in, so I assume that the compressor is also running. AIr blows out the dash vents and as well as the heater or defroster depending on what has been selected by the floor/windscreen switch. I am guessing that in this position the system is blowing A/C air on the passengers and heated air on their feet or the windscreen. What good is this? The next position is heat. Simple. And the other is recirculate. This is the one that I think is stuck. With the system in the heat mode and with the vent open/close set to open, shouldn't fresh air be flowing through the dash vents at highway speeds? Anyway, the RR's a real fog machine in wet weather. Any suggestions? - Tony From "Jeff Young" Thu Jun 01 15:23:26 1995 Date: Thu, 01 Jun 1995 15:23:26 -0400 From: "Jeff Young" Subject: Re: Defroster the mystery switch is used to keep the air conditioning from fogging the windscreen on warm muggy days. it blows a/c on the passengers and heat on the windsheild. this does seem like overkill because the rr does have a defroster in the windsheild. go figure. Jeff Young young@mci.net From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 1 17:53:37 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 17:53:37 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Defroster >this does seem like overkill because the rr does have a defroster in the windsheild. Well, this gets back to my other question. The PO of my RR replaced the heated windsheild with a standard one. My windsheild is now cracked & could be replaced. Is it worth the extra $300 for the heated screen? Does it work that well? The car's all wired for it. - Tony From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Jun 1 18:00:17 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 18:00:17 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Camel Trophy Daily Log Wednesday, May 31st - "The Spanish Road Bites Back" Despite dry weather and a dearth of mud, an attempt to traverse this 430 year old thoroughfare resulted in the most strenuous day of driving yet. Though dubbed a 'road', this route built by the conquistadors centuries ago is little more than a footpath though the jungle high above Lago Izabal. Remains of the original stone roadbed were still visible in places, but in most sections, the track was heavily overgrown and rutted: it had never been used by motorized vehicles before. At one corner, a nasty 100' drop awaited anyone who made a false move, while at another less-dangerous conner, the Japanese and one other team rolled their Discoveries. "It was only lucky that there was no mud, or otherwise we would have been in the jungle for days," said one of the Japanese team members. Downed trees, the thick undergrowth and 3' deep ruts slowed the pace of the 33 vehicle convoy; it took almost 14 hours to cover just 13 km of trail. Only as dusk fell did the team manage to find a clearing for the night's camp. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Thu Jun 1 17:51:12 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 17:51:12 PDT From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: My sick 88 Range Rover All, Thanks for all the replies. Here is the diagnosis, the garage pressure tested the head, NO leak in the gasket. It appears, and I have yet to get over there to check this, that the rad is clogged up with "stuff" the mechanic said that this "stuff" is NOT oil/water mix !!!! Anyway, he tested the rad and found that it is not holding water, core must be blocked !!!! Bascially a new rad is needed. Will keep you all informed, I'm puzzeled, as I have been away and yet to get over there to see this "stuff" Mark MArk From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Thu Jun 1 18:49:08 1995 Date: Thu, 1 Jun 95 18:49:08 PDT From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: ARC 95 Well, just poured off the plane after a superb Pilgrimage `95 to the ARC Nationals. We had a super time - the ARC National went off well - some great video was shot in the quarry sites. Met up with a few of the regulars - Dave Bowyer, Pete Wilford(!), Jon Slavin, as well as the BSROA hooligan faithfuls - Hong and Keegan. The National was a great time and the Lincolnshire LRC did a creditable job of hosting this large event. A highlight for the BSROA group this year was the visit to meet John Foers and his D90-based IBEX off-road machine. We were able to see a work-in-progress as well as his just-completed version 2 prototype. We were all very, very impressed with the space-frame structure and chassis of this vehicle. Off road performance? How about and 85 degree approach and departure angle (for SWB model)??!! Yes, 85! John Foers is quite the gentleman and was nice enough to invite us to his house for coffee to see his series 1 prototypes and to meet his very talented artist/wife Christine. Very nice people. This vehicle is the only alternative to the Solihull product that we would welcome into the ranks of our Club. Thanks, John & Christine. Hong was virtually out of control after he scoped out this machine! This year's factory tour at Solihull was by far the best we've had in the three years we've had this event. Many thanks to LRNA as well as Paul Butterworth of LRUK for having us during the holiday week and letting us spend virtually a whole day in the factory as well as on the Land Rover Experience & Jungle Track! There are some surprises coming in the 1996 model year lineup. More on that stuff later. At the Experience HQ, however, was this insane-looking yellow thing which looked as if it was out of BLADERUNNER or something. The words *CITY CAB* on the front along with the LR logos. Gull wing doors and the thing looked like it was death on wheels. I peered inside and there sat an undisguised FC/101 fascia! Looked underneath... there was the FC/101 chassis as well! What gives. Tune into Sly Stallone's upcoming movie *Judd Dred* (sorry about the spelling) in which the futuristic plot features this contrivance - among others. I was told that three actual runners were made - along with about 27 mockups (which were presumably blown into smithereens during the filming!) during the shooting. Who knows, this could be the next *Gods must be crazy!* Stay tuned. Tuff Trax was a great driving experience for the group - they run a good program complete with *special tasks* and teams doing trial gate driving while holding a cup of water and a time/slalom driving a non-PAS Bedford 4x4 monstrosity! I only knocked down two cones and shunted once - 30 points! Oops. Tuff-Trax offers a great diversity of hazards and conditions. Highly recommended. Tuition covers use of their vehicles and a hot meal as well as *trophies* for the winning team. A lot of fun. We are already planning next year's Pilgrimage. At this point, it looks like a possible off-road guided tour of Wales w/David Bowyer & Co.- following the National. We will try very hard to increase the lead time for this event for next year. Thanks once again to the Shotgun and Andrew Cutting for doing 98% of the organizing! Cheerz Jim - now completely mad... and loving it! -----From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Jun EDT 1904 Date: 02 Jun 95 04:09:53 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: ARC National Rally Back from the Rally and still alive... > who brought with them an ample supply of German Beer, cold to keep it in, and > some plum liquor (25% ABV), which was wicked sweet. .... wuzzat? (*hick*) >rock wall or major boulder). Word has it the only incident in the RTV was >a D90 driver who rear-ended a lightwieght while convoying to the next section. >Unfortunately, the military hitch took out the D90's radiator. Two more accidents to be reported, one at the Comp Safari (spectacular but not tragic), the other one on a public road (not-so-nice). First, a competition Range Rover rolled and landed on the drivers side - driver came crawling out through the windscreen that had popped out. The car lost a lot of petrol while lying on its side, so when the rig was finally back on its wheels and drove off (that's right!) the marshals disposed of the gasoline by setting fire to it and flaming it off. There was a rush of spectators towards the site when they saw black smoke billowing from the pit, and some were *disappointed* that it was *only* petrol being burnt and not a car on fire - go figure. The other incident, a Discovery coming from one of the quarries entered a public road at a T-intersection and either overlooked a (normal) car that was coming or didn't notice the yield-sign... anyway, the passenger car landed on its roof in a ditch, and when I drove past the still fresh scene of the accident the occupants of the passenger car, a couple and a child, where sitting wrapped in quilts by the roadside taken care of by the police. Not a nice ending to a Bank Holiday outing. Enough gore. All in all it was a very nice event, at least for those who escaped injuries and hangovers... Stefan From Solihul@aol.com Fri Jun 2 06:04:43 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 06:04:43 -0400 From: Solihul@aol.com Subject: temp guage woes jssa writes in part, "temp guage reads in the low end of redxnot excessively hot". I hAd same prob with my S3 and found that a ground wire on the knurled nut securing the instrument to its place was loose. Tightened the nut and now its fine. Hope this helps. Cheers, John Dillingham, Woodstock, Ga From "Steve Methley" Fri Jun 2 11:04:54 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:04:54 +0100 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: Stromberg to SU Conz on V8?? Me>..You'll get 20mpg from either set... Daryl>Tell us How. The best I've ever gotten from my stage 1 is 15-16. Well, there's nothing much to tell. Just RTFM was all I did. Regularly got 20mpg from a V8 Lightweight on SU's and a 2 door Rangey on Z-S's. There's no point tuning the carbs unless the ignition is absolutely perfect however. Once set the carbs dont drift out of tune-it's an old wives' tale - the ignition does drift however due to points wear and the way the vacuum advance operates. Ie check timing and dwell regulary. Dirty air filters will send the mpg plummeting downwards quite alarmingly. Clearly your mileage does vary! Cheers, Steve. From Brian Neill Tiedemann Fri Jun 2 20:13:15 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 20:13:15 +1000 (EST) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: u-joint?? Hi all, pardon my ignorance..... what's a U-joint bill wrote 2 days ago: "pinch bolts on U-joint prior to steering relay" My 77 RR has no Relay box as per land croozer 45, and i can't picture a U-joint anywhere!? Steering force is straight from drop arm via ball joint to tie rod, to rod end on LH swivel housing (RHD truk), then two more rod ends on the track rod transmit same to RH swivel housing. I have followed the discussion of wandering rangies with interest, as mine has similar steering play. I have good (new) bushings all round, and all rod ends seem OK (replaced some months ago). I had decided to blame the drop arm vertical movement and ball joint, as tightening the BIG nut makes a world of difference, and the only lubricant in the ball joint is Fe2O3. I bought a rebuild kit from LR a while ago but so far it remains a new kit... If there is some other possible source of my friendly randomness of steering, please suggest....?(Other than my Super Swampers that is!) thanks Leaks but I luv it... 77 RR Brian Tiedemann (s914440@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au) _______ / / | \___ \_ ^ ___ ^ _: >>><<< {*} {*} ..........................|||| ..................../ .............../ (Still 2WD *dammit*) From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Jun EDT 1906 Date: 02 Jun 95 06:46:57 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Drag link on an 88 David Brown narrowly escapes death ... > My question is this: Is the drag link supposed to have "threads" to help > hold the tie rod end? Or is it supposed to be smooth? Mine is basically > smooth, (worn?) so I wondered if I need to replace this??? Yeah, not an uncommon problem - and a very dangerous one. What happens is this: The tie rod/track rod/drag link (pick your choice) has opposite threads on either end, meaning that one tie rod end/ball joint/ is right-threaded, while the other must be left-threaded. In the life of every Land Rover comes the moment when, at the hands of an (obviously incompetent) PO, the rod ends are being replaced, and eiter they are rusted solid in the rod and the entire thread is stripped out by the forcible removal, or the PO gets two rod ends of a kind (maybe 2nd hand) and at least one of the ends gets cross-threaded when he bungs the thing back in. This process may repeat it self a couple of times with subsequent POs, and the result is what you got on your 88". DON'T MOVE YOUR CAR until you got a NEW tie rod in there!! Stefan From Mike Rooth Fri Jun 2 12:17:40 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 12:17:40 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Stromberg to SU Conz on V8?? Er,is Daryll's Stage One lower geared than a Range Rover, though,Steve? And heavier than your Lightweight. Random thoughts........ Cheers Mike Rooth From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Jun EDT 1907 Date: 02 Jun 95 07:16:05 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Volcano erupts in Guatemala/Trophy? I just picked up a news flash on dpa-online that apparently a volcano has erupted violently close to Guatemala City. Would/could this have any consequences for the Camel Trophy that just about now should be passing through Guatemala? Stefan From Paul Sturm <0003891595@mcimail.com> Fri Jun 2 06:44 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 06:44 EST From: Paul Sturm <0003891595@mcimail.com> Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest -- [ From: Paul Sturm * EMC.Ver #2.05 ] -- You can perhaps help me unsubscribe to LRO Daily Digest. I've been sending regular unsubscribe messages as per the instructions for a couple of weeks-- but without success even though I get a message confirmation. The problem could be that I'm receiving the material via a forward command from another mailbox. The address there is psturm@ilhawaii.net. If you could strike my name (regardless of the address), I'd appreciate it. I am the happy owner of a 1962 Series II. But at the moment I'm on the road, and receiving long e-mail is very expensive. Regards. From Custer wore an ARROW shirt Fri Jun 02 08:24:27 1995 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 1995 08:24:27 -0500 (EST) From: Custer wore an ARROW shirt Subject: Feedback needed..... I am thinking about purchasing a 1968 SIIa. The vehicle will be my primary means of transportation, so I need something fairly dependable. I drive roughly 7 miles per day, 11,000 miles per year. Would the SIIa be a good idea? I saw some newer (mid 80's) Rovers that I liked, but none of them caught my eye like the SIIa did. Any feedback would be welcome. Thank you (in advance)! rick miale unc asheville From Pierce Reid 02 95 Jun EDT 1908 Date: 02 Jun 95 08:56:29 EDT From: Pierce Reid Subject: Gaiters for late RR fit D90? Can anyone tell me if a set of gaiters for a newer Range Rover will fit a D90? One of our fellow list members has a set available that I would like to purchase for my D90, but I need to know if they will fit. TIA and cheers, R. Pierce Reid From "Steve Methley" Fri Jun 2 14:17:37 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 14:17:37 +0100 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: Stromberg to SU Conz on V8?? Mike: >Er,is Daryll's Stage One lower geared than a Range Rover, >though,Steve? And heavier than your Lightweight. >Random thoughts........ Er, sure Mike. There's lots of other factors too. I drove/drive both my vehicles at 80mph down the M4 and was convinced that at that speed nothing much bar wind resistance made much difference. The RR is stock whilst the Lightweight (yes they are _heavier_ than a civvy SWB) was on 750 SATs with RR diffs. Lots of stop-start stuff and cold running is going to affect things too, also the auto box RR's are worse on mpg, 15 ish.....it goes on...Wonder if I'm heavier than Daryll? -- Best Regards, Steve. From Mike Rooth Fri Jun 2 14:15:24 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 14:15:24 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Feedback needed..... FWIW,my daily mileage is around fifteen.I've got a '70 11A SWB 2.25 diesel,which nominally,at any rate,is *supposed* to be less reliable than the 2.25 petrol. Its the only vehicle I own. During the eight years I've had it,the reliability factor has been good,and it wasnt in particularly good nick when I got it.A dropped valve about a year into ownership put it off the raod for a good while, but most of the good while was my own fault for dithering about trying to find a replacement engine, when all it needed was the current engine repairing. Most of the problems have been "engine orientated", and would not have occured with the petrol,or rather if they had,would not have had the same effect. Running gear,gearbox etc are IMO better than the S111, the gearbox particularly is much stronger,but with the disadvantage(if you can call it that)that double declutching is necessary in bottom and second.You will have the usual problems associated with wiring nearly thirty years old, and god knows how many bodge jobs done on it in that time. Having said all that,Americans seem to have a wierd skill at busting half shafts,but even that isnt instantly fatal, necessarily,since if you lose power to the back axle,four wheel drive will usually see you home over the distances you mention. I'd say go for it.I've certainly not regretted the decision. Cheers Mike Rooth From Charlie Wright Fri Jun 2 15:07:09 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 15:07:09 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Feedback needed..... On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, Custer wore an ARROW shirt wrote: > I am thinking about purchasing a 1968 SIIa. The vehicle will be my primary > means of transportation, so I need something fairly dependable. I drive roughly > 7 miles per day, 11,000 miles per year. What planet do you live on? We have 365.25 days in a year here on earth ;-) > Would the SIIa be a good idea? I saw some newer (mid 80's) Rovers that I liked, > but none of them caught my eye like the SIIa did. They're great for a daily driver, if you don't need _dependable_ transport. As they say, it will always get you home, but you may not always get out again straight away... It's usually Uncle Joe. (BTW I found an alternator bracket...) Charlie From vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Fri Jun 2 16:42:42 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 16:42:42 +0200 From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Subject: Introduction Hi, you all out there, I've been subscribed to this list for about one month now. Since I am new to Internet, I have thought it sensible to, for some time, be only reading to see what is going on here. Now, I would like to introduce myself before adding any comments of my own to this list. My name is Bert, I'm the proud owner of a 1964 Series IIa 88 LandRover (ex-British-Forces-Germany, in a specially modified, military version, *not* an air transportable, so called cutaway). I am pleased to see that there are so many Series owners on this list. I wonder if you all are actually *driving* these old vehicles or primarily keeping them for fun, rather like myself, driving my LR only occasionally. I'm more into classic cars than into driving through the mud. (Here in Holland, Europe, where the salty sea air makes everything on wheels rust very quickly, almost anything older than 15 years is considered a classic; if you happen to live in Turkey or in Cuba, you would probably consider such cars to be only just out of warranty ;-) ). So, I like classics, and it is great fun driving my 1964 LandRover, in spite of the obvious arguments against it ( e.g. low cruising speed, high noise level, always the suspension if you are going to make it to your destination before another, probably electrical, malfuction will rise its ugly little head....) Hope to meet you on the list! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------- Bert Palte Roggeveld 25 3764 ZB Soest The Netherlands Home Phone # 02155 23949 E-mail: < vortex@worldaccess.nl > From Mike Slade Fri Jun 02 08:47:45 1995 Date: Fri, 02 Jun 1995 08:47:45 -0600 (MDT) From: Mike Slade Subject: OEM parts I read your post about the different parts suppliers with interest as I did just recieve yesterday a package from British Pacific. I had ordered one U-joint and had specifically asked if these were 'genuine' parts, I was assured that they were and patiently waited for my order. When it arrived I had recieved TWO U-joints, not one like I had ordered, and they were from a company called Hardy Spicer. I called and he gave me the OEM parts schpiel and I guess I was satisfied with his line, but was a bit irked that they had sent and charged me for two of them. I asked why they sent two and he replied that 'when you do one U-joint you usually do the other', which is fine, but I wish that I would have been given that advice over the phone BEFORE recieving the parts. To their credit however, they send me the latest copy of LRO without charging me anything for it. So, what's the scoop on OEM parts? I guess I'll wait until the official word is in before ordering from them again. They seemed a bit slimey they way they dealt with me about the U-joints. Am I just being anal? Also, I have a Kodiak heater in my 66 IIa, and I too was baffled by the lack of heat until one fateful day I figured out what the mystery knob was for. Apparetnly there is a butterfly valve in the hose from the intake to the fan that the top knob closes. With this closed there is not enough air blown through the unit to heat. I run mine with the top knob (valve) open, the blower on HIGH and the water control valve all the way out. Here in N. Utah the winter was also quite mild, but when I figured out how that thing worked it made for much more pleasant winter driving. My next project will be to mount a towing hitch (ball type) to my rear cross member as I am just about to pick up an '88 from a junk yard south of here on a flatbed. Any suggestions? I haven't even started to look at the different options. Thanks everyone, Michael -My vehicle WAS tested on animals- From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Fri Jun 2 10:58:59 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 10:58:59 -0400 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Questions questions? >>What size/type tires are those? Any clearance problems? I've confirmed that the tires on my IIa 88 are Cooper Discoverer Radial CTD LT235/85R16 m/s Regards JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= Look what happens when you love someone, and they don't love you. --Warren Zevon, The Heartache == == From Charlie Wright Fri Jun 2 17:17:38 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 17:17:38 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: OEM parts Mike, I think perhaps you've discovered why U-joints are also called "Hardy Spicer's" or "Hardy-Spicer Joints". I think you'll find they _are_ OEM. So yea, I guess that would qualify as anal ;-) Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Jun 2 09:23:39 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 09:23:39 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: OEM parts In message <199506021449.JAA10299@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mike Slade writes: ; I read your post about the different parts suppliers with interest as I did ; just recieve yesterday a package from British Pacific. ; ; I had ordered one U-joint and had specifically asked if these were 'genuine' ; parts, I was assured that they were and patiently waited for my order. ; ; When it arrived I had recieved TWO U-joints, not one like I had ordered, and ; they were from a company called Hardy Spicer. I would not be happy in your spot. If they promised you parts in a container labeled guenuine Land Rover parts you should have received it as promised. They should have been able to tell you if it was labeled Land Rover, OEM or third party. I don't hold for deception nor for a company so disorganized that they don't know what they have in stock. I would also NOT be happy if I recieved two of something if I ordered one just because the person packing the box thought you didn't know what you were ordering. He didn't know if you already had one on hand, had just made an order with another company who only had one in stock so you already had one coming, or if you damaged one 'U' joint and the other was still in like new condition. I agree they should have recomended that you change out both ends of a shaft, but the decision should be yours. . So, what's the scoop on OEM parts? I guess I'll wait until the official word ; is in before ordering from them again. Spicer is THE 'U' joint company. They are OEM for just about every car manufacturer. So don't worry about going wrong with Spicer 'U' joints. Now about OEM vs Genuine parts. This is an issue largely generated by Rovers North to justify the higher prices they charge. When you design complicated hardware you need to be aware of parts cost. Its WAY cheaper to specify a part out of a parts book than to specify a part that does not exist. The British manufacturers are well aware of this. Just look at the TR3 front turn signals on mid sixties Land Rovers, along with the TR3 fuse box, the Morgan license plate lights, the Big Healey rear lights, the Land Rover master clutch cylinder for the early cars are the same as the TR3's. The British not only shared OEM parts but when possible whole assemblies. Rovers North would like to tell you that Rover may have ordered a different metal alloy form Gurling for their cylinders. That would probably more than triple the price of the cylinders, assuming Gurling would even do it. Even most custom for Land Rover parts were made by a second OEM company. As long as the original company makes the part to the spec that Rover chose crom the manucafturer's catalogue, that part is identical to one that comes in a Land Rover labeled box. In several past jobs I was a Quality manager and responsible for internal audits and understanding the company's design and manufacturing processes. Most specs that a purchasing type orders from are copied word for word from a different company's parts catalogue. Its a matter of economics. Rover will not specify a custom part if an off the shelf part will work. If the box says Gurling, Lockheed (You can tell I'm working on brakes these days),National, Spicer, Timken, Lucas or other big name brands, I'm confident that the contents of the box are identical to the contents of a box labeled genuine Land Rover parts. Since the same company makes the part to the same spec and ether puts it in their own box or a genuine Land Rover Part box before it leaves the OEM factory doesn't make a difference to me. Mind you, I do worry about some third party parts. ; They seemed a bit slimey they way ; they dealt with me about the U-joints. Am I just being anal? I agree, British Pacific was more than a bit slimy on your order. I tend to go with them for domestic ordering because they seem to be consistantly cheaper than Rovers North and Atlantic British and I have only received OEM or Genuine Land Rover labeled parts from them. I'm confident of the highest quality available parts at the best US price from them. However, there are at least two people on the phone line and though they both sound simular and are friendly, at least one of them doesn't seem to know a whole lot about Land Rovers. They seem to be helpful but nowhere near as knowledgable as Rovers North's phone people. I don't think that were trying to cause you problems by sending you two "U" joints. But that was not their decision to make. I guess if I knew what I wanted I would go with British Pacific for US orders and if I was unsure of what I wanted or needed some advice, I would go to Rovers' North and assume the extra price is the cost of getting information from a knowledgable person. But I would definatly let British Pacific know exactly what I thought of them changing your order without your specific authorization. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From Easton Trevor Mon May 29 10:31:00 1995 Date: Mon, 29 May 95 10:31:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Unleaded Heads One of the methods to convert the head to unleaded is to install hardened valve seats. The theory is that tetraethyl lead provides a lubricant which protects the valve seats and since this is not present in unleaded the seats will wear and the valves eat into the head. In reality this is only a problem in some engines which run with hot exhaust valves. IMHO Unless you continually drive your Landie at high speeds and loads it should not be necessary to do any conversion to the head. Keep a check on your exhaust valve clearances and if they start to close up rapidly then change your driving habits or modify the head. Regarding Tony Yates notes on additives and toxic effects. Unfortunately we can't buy leaded any more in Canada or USA, some more information on the toxic emissions without a catalitic converter would be very interesting. I'm sure we are all using unleaded with happy ignorance in our lawnmowers and other non catalyst equipped vehicles and machinery. Are we commiting suicide unaware? Is this why my eyes smart all the time? Knowledgeable chemists please help. Perhaps we can become envirogeeks with our own pet peeve. Trevor "Weepy" Easton From Easton Trevor Mon May 29 10:16:00 1995 Date: Mon, 29 May 95 10:16:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Buffing Buffing refers to the coming together of railway wagons and locomotives for this purpose they are fitted with buffers. In north america this is refered to as draft gear. Since most Series Land Rovers are already fitted with several drafts, one would be lead to believe that buffing is a natural process and any additional buffing would be unnecessary. All that is required is to move the vehicle at a suitable speed, relative to the surrounding air, either under its own power or by placing it in a windy location. For optimum buffing (Draft, draught) a maximum air temperature of -20 degrees is recommended. Trevor Easton from the frozen north and Miss Golightly warm and snug with a Kodiak From Mike Rooth Fri Jun 2 14:24:21 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 14:24:21 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Volcano erupts in Guatemala/Trophy? > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > Stefan > Dont know about consequences...but hot lava could have some effect on tyre life,I would have thought. Mike Rooth From "John C. Sanders" Fri Jun 2 13:10:48 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 13:10:48 -0400 From: "John C. Sanders" Subject: 1967 Surplus NATO Land Rover for sale My boss wants to sell his 1967 NATO surplus land rover. Although it's 25 years old it runs fine and has only 10,000 miles on the clock. Camouflage in color. He's used it around his property as a work vehicle. It's now located in Maine. Any interest? Thanks John From Mike Dryfoos Fri Jun 2 10:27:07 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 10:27:07 TZ From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: RR heated windshields I've found the heated windshield on my '92 RR very useful when out in the mountains in the snow. Come back from a day out skiing and fire up the windshield heater to help clear off any ice and snow that has adhered to the surface. It was genuinely invaluable one day when crossing over the mountains in a serious blizzard. Everyone else had to pull over every 10 minutes to scrap off their windshields. I don't use the heated windshield for ordinary defrosting. I don't think it is really intended for that, and I get satisfactory results with the fan, anyway. So I'd say if you don't find yourself out in the snow, it probably isn't worth the extra money. From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Jun 2 10:41:06 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 10:41:06 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: converter > and most folks leave you alone...it ain't gunna kill ya to have a > converter on the 2.25...and having one will prevent the Greenies from I will put on a Toyota windshield decal before a catalytic converter. Off -road vehicles with these are known to start fires because they get so hot. and You are just trading one form of pollution for another (sulfuric acid). It is a known fact (but never mentioned by the Greenies) that 60% of auto air pollution is caused by 10% of the vehicles... older, poorly maintained junkers. Most of the rest is caused by unregulated diesels. Do not take this to mean that I don't care about the environment. I believe that I am more of an environmentalist than most people who call themselves "Green." I have been picking up others trash around campsites and treading lightly, since I was five. I just know "junk science" when I see it. R, bg ---The BIG BANG will recycle everything. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- "The Green dweebs want a world where individuals don't count for much, where all the important decisions -- such as whether to shift the Viper into fifth -- are made in Washington. They want a world controlled by the political process. That's because the shrub cuddlers are, as individuals, so insignificant. They're losers, the three-bong-hit saviors of the earth, lava lamp Luddites, global warming dolts, ozone boneheads, peace creeps, tofu twinks, Birkenstock buttinskis, and bed-wetting vegetarian bicyclists who bother whales on weekends. They have no money, sense, or skills. But they can make their mark on politics because the whole idea of politics is to achieve power without possessing merit." -- P.J. O'Rourke -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From "Matthew Holding (AUS)" <100036.2103@compuserve.com> 02 95 Jun EDT 1913 Date: 02 Jun 95 13:43:52 EDT From: "Matthew Holding (AUS)" <100036.2103@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: OIL PRESSURE V8 Thanks Steve, Darryl, Charlie... I am fitting a guage to see exactly what the pressure is doing - this 2wd Rover only has a red light to tell you when it blows up :-) Good advice Charlie. I have already gotten sick of paying $14 a week for air filters so I have a great under bonnet anti rust system. Have tried thick oil - 25-50 / 50 / 60 - all have had no effect. Still runs really well. I'll just have to fix that Landy with the sore piston. Matt. From vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Fri Jun 2 20:06:42 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 20:06:42 +0200 From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Subject: Re: Ser III Charge Light On May 29th, Steve Rochna wrote: > After a nice holiday drive I made a quick stop at a local >store and noticed that after startup the charge light stayed on. ... >Very shortly thereafter the charge light went out. I killed the engine and >restarted it multiple times and all seems well. >Normally on startup I have to rev the engine above normal idle to get the charge >light out then it stays out. Is this normal? Has anybody any insight as to >what my charge light problem is (was)? Seems pretty straightforward to me. I have had the same problem, with different cars. The point is that the brushes in your dynamo/generator or alternator will either stick in their guides or they will have worn. You can repair it yourself if you like to. (If it is a dynamo, you will need a large soldering iron, though). A new set of brushes will probably not cost you much more than about $ 10 or so. Or you can have it done professionally. At that time, if they do it properly, the workshop will also renew the bearings of the dynamo or alternator. Contrary to popular belief, alternators *do* have brushes ! Bert Palte From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Jun 2 11:22:34 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:22:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: 1967 Surplus NATO Land Rover for sale >>>>> John C. Sanders writes: > My boss wants to sell his 1967 NATO surplus land rover. Although it's 25 > years old it runs fine and has only 10,000 miles on the clock. Camouflage > in color. He's used it around his property as a work vehicle. It's now > located in Maine. Any interest? I'm sure there is interest in such a vehicle. Can you supply more info on model (88/109), lhd vs rhd, top, and so on? Little things, like asking price and body condition, would also be of interest. Thanks, Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Jun 2 11:25:42 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:25:42 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Feedback needed..... >>>>> rick miale, Custer wore an ARROW shirt writes: > I am thinking about purchasing a 1968 SIIa. The vehicle will be my primary [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > but none of them caught my eye like the SIIa did. > Any feedback would be welcome. Thank you (in advance)! Assuming it's reliable, it'd be great. But so would a bicycle, except maybe in the rain. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Jun 2 11:31:55 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:31:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Volcano erupts in Guatemala/Trophy? >>>>> Stefan R. Jacob writes: > I just picked up a news flash on dpa-online that apparently a volcano [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > any consequences for the Camel Trophy that just about now should be > passing through Guatemala? Hi Stefan, What is dpa-online, and how do I access it? In response you your question, fine volcanic ash can play absolute havoc with air filters and engines. During the 1980 eruption of Mt. St. Helens in the Pacific Northwest of the US filters clogged immediately and those who pulled them off wore out their engines in just a 200-300 km. The recommended solution: pantyhose. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Jun 2 11:37:27 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 11:37:27 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Introduction > My name is Bert, I'm the proud owner of a 1964 Series IIa 88 LandRover > I wonder if you all are actually *driving* these old vehicles or [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > ( e.g. low cruising speed, high noise level, > Bert Palte I drive my '64 88" to work everyday... 80 miles (128K) round trip, here in SF, California. Through Sierra blizzards in the winter, then across the Oregon-Nevada-Utah desert every summer. No sweat. What? cound'nt hear you. Regards, Bill G. From Alex Bronstein Fri Jun 2 12:13:54 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 12:13:54 PDT From: Alex Bronstein Subject: Good-Bye from a Grateful Lurker Folks, I just wanted to let you all know, before I ask Majordomo to cut me off that you are a very Healthy & Friendly & Pleasant bunch, and I've enjoyed your company very much. A year ago, as my wife and I investigated the "Family-mobile", the short list came down to Range-Rovers (incl. Discos) or Volvo station wagons. (Some of you may be horrified to read that, don't worry, the only real intersection is that both vehicles provide a lot of very well engineered heavy steel around your loved ones, thereby providing safety, functionality and long-term value.) At that time I joined this list to learn more, and maybe buy a used RR/LR if a good deal came up. About 6 months ago, budget & mortgage realities set in, and we invested about 5 K$ in a 10 year old Volvo 240 wagon. The 50 $K RR dream was pushed back to 10 or 20 years in the future. Meanwhile, I stayed on the list because on days when life would get too stressful (and there a few like that when you work in Silicon Valley, and have a 2 year old and a newborn at home), I knew I could always dive in my stash of unread lro-mail, and find a stream of positive attitude, healthy realism, and good humor. But it's time for me now to pick a hobby with which I can do more than daydream and read about. So, thank you all for your cyberspace hospitality! May you all be blessed with long-running vehicles which will only break in ways that you can fix with a screwdriver, a string, and a coin! Alex Bronstein Palo Alto, CA, USA From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Fri Jun 2 13:15:48 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 13:15:48 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: Connection Gone - Goodbye unsubscribe Lost my job and worst they won't let me keep an internet connection. They seem to think I should be working for them to get e-mail. Really rude people. New things on the horizon - places to go, people to see and things to do. I have enjoyed the list and everybody on it. I have met and talked with many good people. As soon as my sys gets put in a home and the local access is connected I will be off the list for about two months. Hope to see and hear from evrybody soon. Roy H. Caldwell 1530 Laurel St. Helena, MT. 59601 USA (406) 442-1804 Roy - Rovers in the Rockies From Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> 02 95 Jun EDT 1916 Date: 02 Jun 95 16:20:40 EDT From: Brian Imdieke <74051.2206@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Land Rover & Mercedes Parts Someone here asked about getting Mercedes parts at a discount though mail order......I forget who. But, anyway these are the ones that I have had good luck with...... Caliber Motors (dealer) Anaheim Hills, CA 1-800-252-6877 Autohaus (aftermarket) San Antonio, Texas 1-800-226-8159 By the way, anyone interested in joining the Mercedes Benz club of America, call 1-800-637-2360. $35.00 annual. From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Jun 2 18:55:44 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 95 18:55:44 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: smack-psssst Bill C. fills us in: >Word has it the only incident in the RTV was >a D90 driver who rear-ended a lightwieght while convoying to the next section. >Unfortunately, the military hitch took out the D90's radiator. Hmmmmm. Never would'a happened had he had his radiator mounted deep within the recesses of his breakfast. Might'a crushed the 6-pack, though. rd/nige From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Fri Jun 2 22:53:47 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 22:53:47 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Camel Trophy Daily Log Thursday, June 1st - There is no road into the village of Izabal, a small group of thatched huts on the western edge of the lake of the same name. But one other vehicle has ever visited the settlement - a Land Rover on last year's recce. It took the Camel trophy convoy two days to crawl across the mountainous 'spanish road', a route built by Cortez in 1540. "You are the first people to make the journey in such numbers since Cortez," said Izabal's mayor Andres Solis. "We had heard that you were coming but we were not sure you would make it. No other car has been through that road. Not even the cowboys use it, it is so bad. We don't get many visitors here. Every time we travel, we go by boat." The villagers offered use of their lakeside beach for a camp. As none had washed in days, some teams jumped into the lake fully dressed. However, following in the footsteps of Cortez was not easy: the Spanish team seriously damaged their transmission on a boulder just before the village. This was to be the last formal group camp until Belize next week. As with last weekend's exercise, the convoy will split into groups of three or four teams each: they have been given the name of a village on the Guatamala/Belize border and have two days to reach it. Most of the roads are not marked on the map and have not been maintained in years. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Fri Jun 2 23:37:14 1995 Date: Fri, 2 Jun 1995 23:37:14 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Bits 'n pieces WRT several threads...a nifty trick the next time you replace an axle is to take the end of a file and scratch a longitudinal line down its length. The next time you have the shaft out and find the line no longer straight, you know that damage has been done and you should consider replacing it. Wipers. For the late IIa/III units (single motor/dual speed), try an Anco AN-10 replacement arm. The arm length is adjustable and there is this shaft adapter - a little drum-shaped thing that is held in place by two Allen screws. The central diameter needs to be enlarged a proverbial gnat's eyelash, but it's a quick, *inexpensive* fix. Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rziegler@sover.net (Richard Ziegler) Sat Jun 3 03:30:57 1995 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 03:30:57 -0400 From: rziegler@sover.net (Richard Ziegler) Subject: RR oil and tie rod ends Matthew Holding's '70 RR V8 engine is blowing oil into the breather system. One possibility may be poor ring sealing on the pistons. Even though compression readings are good they may be good because of the oil getting past the rings (blow-by). (Don't forget that you do a wet compression test to check for valve leakage by introducing oil through the sparkplug hole to seal up the rings.) The best method to check for piston ring sealing is to do a leakdown test. Compressed air is run through a gauge and into the sparkplug hole of each cylinder. The reading on the gauge is noted for each cylinder and an audio check is made for air escaping at the oil fill, radiator, carb, and tailpipe. For each cylinder checked the valves have to be shut for that cylinder. The sound of air escaping from the oil fill would indicate piston ring problems, from carb it would be intake valve, from tailpipe it would be exhaust valve, and bubbles in the radiator coolant would be headgasket. Oil pressure is a function of the oil pump, pressure relief valves, bearings, and the general integrity of the high pressure side of the oil system. Thus, until you run low on oil you will show good oil pressure readings if the hi pressure side is ok. The piston rings are on the low (no) pressure side of the system and thus problems here would not show up on the gauge until aforementioned lack of oil. _________ Dave Brown has a tie rod end that dropped out of his tie rod and asked if the rod should be threaded. The quick answer is yes and you should replace the bad threaded rod for your safety. Terminology: Tie rod (steering track rod) connects the two front wheels togFrom Brian Neill Tiedemann Sat Jun 3 23:18:55 1995 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 23:18:55 +1000 (EST) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: winches! Hi again, I think the mystery U-joint may have been describing the two universal joints and rubber thingy in my steering column to box linkages.... they have been found loose in the past. Any suggestions for removing play in said unis without replacing ($$$ here)? I have a couple of joints from some late model Volvo... forgive me but if i can make em fit i will, as the spline is the same. Now for the purpose of my post for 2day. I have just purchased a new tractor battery for my RR, and in doing so i chatted to a few people and asked many questions. The result: I am now the proud owner of a Ramsay 8000lb PTO winch and shafts and PTO to suit a canned loser er.. land croozer. Question: Is the ramsay a good winch, and how does it compare to a Thomas? I believe the Thomas is a copy of Ramsay's Design, is this so, and how interchangeable are parts? I also have an option to buy a Thomas, hence the interest. Is there any common wear points or damage to look for? I have pulled apart, cleaned and stripped the thing and all looks pretty bullet proof, so soon in a new cradle and with a little more class , the previously Toyota serving spool may find itself hauling my RR about. That is unless anyone can suggest reasons not to use it....... cheers Leaks but I luv it... 77 RR Brian Tiedemann (S914440@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au) _______ ___/ | \ \ <<<< :_ ^ ___ ^ _/ {*} {*} .....................||| .............../ ........................../ From Charlie Wright Sat Jun 3 14:34:11 1995 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 14:34:11 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: converter On Fri, 2 Jun 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > I will put on a Toyota windshield decal before a catalytic converter. Off > -road vehicles with these are known to start fires because they get so hot. Hmmmm, depends on where you put it... under the center seat might be the Kodiak Mk. VI... and little risk of brush fires... petrol leaks however... > You are just trading one form of pollution for another (sulfuric acid). It > is a known fact (but never mentioned by the Greenies) that 60% of auto air > pollution is caused by 10% of the vehicles... older, poorly maintained junkers. > Most of the rest is caused by unregulated diesels. Your numbers aren't too far off, again, I implore anyone interested to pick up Science (19 May 1995, p.991-995). There are a couple of articles that are VERY good on this. They did some very targeted studies in Calif. and basically tore current policy to shreds with hard evidence. The trouble is, the current policies (especially those in California) are much better political manuvering than they are polution controlling. "Zero-emissions" (despite the utter lie that it is) sounds much better to a Greenie than does "Government subsidy to correctly tune your junker", which is the practical and cost effective solution. In addition, the responsible vehicles are not, contrary to most beliefs, all "older" junkers, or even "junkers". A significant portion caught in the Science test (they used portable detectors to spot check for indivdual "Gross Polluters" at roadside) were not in the expected age bracket. They were _either_ poorly maintained, or as was the case in something like 40%?, they had been tampered with. The report stated that not all cases were clearly deliberate tampering, but that many were indeed. So yes, small numbers responsible for large amounts, but we 'oldies' are not always to blame, because a lot of our vehicles are still running because they are well maintained. The conclusions basically pointed out the fallacy of lowering emissions targets of new vehicles by infinitessimal amounts, because A) current new car emissions are VERY low and B) new cars that do qualify as gross polluters are invariably badly maintained and usually tampered with. The study said that spending $200-300 per gross polluter to help bring it up to spec. (and to impose much stiffer penalties for taking off your EGR valve/smog-pump/converter) would be a MUCH more cost effective approach to the problem of clean air. Food for thought (or stirring...) Charlie From "S.Vels Christensen" Fri Jun 3 15:04:26 1994 Date: Fri, 3 Jun 1994 15:04:26 -0600 (CST) From: "S.Vels Christensen" Subject: Rods, Ends and Tracking. I was under Lawrence to improve the steering this week so i might be able to add something with regard to this thread (right or left ;-) ). I've been driving around with about 75 degree slack in a hard,n heavy steering for about a year so i ordered three pairs of rod ends. Not original stuff. Rather unoriginal and cheap really. About 6 UK sterlies a piece. The name is ACME. They have a feature that i've never seen on original or OE ends: Lube nibbles. Someone (a Toyota owner) told me that balls can be lubricated with a syringe through the rubber. I don't believe that: When i pressed some lithium grease into the housing on the new ones, grease came out at the top closing plate. I checked behind the rubber. No grease. I expect these to last at least as long as original ones. The grease on the old ones is not grease anymore. It's mayonaise that looks and smells rotten. I couldn't get one end off the track rod so i ordered a new rod for about 20 pounds. If i can get the end off without being too violent i'll keep the old rod in case i hit a rock or a biker. Tracking. I'll make my own cheap, precise and easy to use tracking equipment. At the DIY market they have lengths (1 m) of aluminium pipe. A 6mm should fit snuggly into an 8mm. I will use a narrow pointed marker to mark the difference. Alcohol based of course. Much cheaper (less than 10 pounds) than having it done by a pro. And the instrument will last forever. Note: The prices are mentioned in Pounds for comparison only. We use Kroner in Denmark of course. sv/aurens From Piers E Montague Sat Jun 3 15:44:22 1995 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 15:44:22 +0100 (BST) From: Piers E Montague Subject: At Last!!! Firstly I thought I had un-subscribed from this 'ere list, but then I come back up to uni for a bit of a driking session and find loads of messages, Oh well! The good news is that after more years than I can remember wanting a Land Rover last week I went and got one!! She is a 1960 SWB full tilt diesel that has been on a farm all her life and has not been taxed since 1963! The whole lot is in remarkable condition considering what farmers get up to, and the price I payed. I have six months working from home to try and get her rebuilt, I am not on the Email system at home or I could keep you all posted on the progress, but I will submit a report on my return to uni (hopefully in said vehicle!). Have a good summer, I will! Cheerz 'en anon, PPPPP EEEEE RRRRR CCCC PP P EE RR R CC C PP PP EEEE RR RR CC PP EE RR RR CC C PP EEEEE RR RR CCCC ----------------------------------------------------- Drink zcrump, Smoke bunnies, Eat lard, Live forever. ----------------------------------------------------- Don't be a stick in the mud, be a LAND- -ROVER owner. From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Sat Jun 3 21:25:40 1995 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 21:25:40 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Rovin! again, all is well! All is well, gearbox is back in and the Rover is running just fine. After two or three test drives, the gearbox doesn't even LEAK...(yet)! Now that I have it all back together I do have one little question. How much play in the driveshaft is normal? I noticed when I was connecting the drive shafts to the transmission, that I could turn the front driveshaft about 1/4 turn back and forth before it engages. Is this a normal amount of play? Just thought I'd ask, now that its all back together it isn't coming apart for quite a while. I forget how much I use it until its off the road for a couple of weeks. Tip for Dave Brown and others replacing tie rod ends, don't forget to put anti-seize compound on the threads of the new tie rod before putting it into the center rod. That way if you have to take it apart again it will be a breeze, or you will make it easier for the next owner. Later.......Richard Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse.net - currently under restoration From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Sat Jun 3 18:41:20 1995 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 1995 18:41:20 -0700 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: unleaded gas Hello Rover folks, I've been meaning to give my 2 cents worth about unleaded fuel and lead substitutes for awhile and today remebered! My general recollection is that these old engines need a lead substitute. I have a copy of Robert Ivins book "Know your Land Rover" (LRO BOOKS, no ISBN #!) which starts out with chapter one: fuel. He says "the effect of using lead free in an engine not designed for it is not instant. It will not 'conk out' just down the road from the filling station but will suffer gradual and PERMANENT (his emphasis) damage to the valve gear." Mike Smith of East Coast Land Rover, from whom I bought my rover (68 IIa dormobile, 6cyl euro engine), used a lead substitute and I continue to. I buy a lead substitute made by Stewart Warner, called CD-2, super concentrated lead substitute. It comes in a quart plastic container with a very well designed dispenser built in. One ounce treats ten gallons of gas, therefore the bottle treats 300 gallons (give or take). I don't remember how much I paid for the bottle. Two points: one, the label says safe for catalytic converters and EPA registered (US) two, it says approved by major engine manufacturers (doesn't say who). That's my $0.02. john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! From Kelly Minnick Sat Jun 3 19:28:17 1995 Date: Sat, 3 Jun 95 19:28:17 PDT From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Misc RE:Misc For the non-leveling '95 RR trailer hitch... Does the new RR still use the auto-leveling device? That could be why they don't want you to use a leveling hitch... Just a thought. Stellite valves. Actually, stellite valves are only coated with stellite where needed (i.e. seat surface, etc.). Most shops have been using stainless valves. The are hard and work well, but are cheaper than the stellite ones! (alFrom JDolan2109@aol.com Sun Jun 4 08:52:01 1995 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 08:52:01 -0400 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest I've been following the thread about tie-rod ends, and thought I'd add my pence worth. I did have failure while at motion once. Thankfully, it was at only 2-3 mph. So, I replaced the afflicted pair, and returned the vehicle to service. The new tie-rod ends did have a grease 'zerk', the originals did not. When servicing the new ends, one was found to refuse the acceptance of grease. Thinking it to be a blocked/clogged fitting, I removed it, only to find that the fitting did pass grease! Further inspection found the tie-rod end to contain a vinyl(?) insert/cup arrangement. This leads me to believe that what I was provided with were originally non-serviceable units that had been retro-fitted in an attempt to provide greasing capability and better commercial attractiveness. However, the original design prevailed, and grease could not get past/around the before mentioned barrier. Additionally, I had rod failure about 4 months later. It seems that the threads (poorly machined?) on the tie-rod ends were 'hammering' their way out of the rod and dangerous movement/slippage was being allowed. So, I replaced the complete assembly with the best parts I could find. I'll never buy cheap steering components again. They're junk and dangerous! I just about live in my LR, I'd rather not die in it! See 'ya on the old road... Jim '61 88" SW / OD, 1 Bbl weber & 16's (econobox?) LR....quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised! P.S. 28,778 miles driven in 1994 (typical year), no lead added. In the past 150,000 miles (of my use; can't vouch for prior), I have lost one exhaust valve, don't know why, just swapped heads (good/used) and returned to service. Have the old one on a shelf if you want to look at it... From Sanna@aol.com Sun Jun 4 08:53:23 1995 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 08:53:23 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Misc >You should feel good if your RR only fogs up in the rain. My '91 has the original windshield and it leaks water in the center. Oh yes, and I forgot to say that my '89's windshield leaks water in the center... and I don't live in the desert. In a downpour I have this nagging fear of the water running down the windscreen and into the dash, soaking some marginal Lucas component. Poof! But the dish towel I keep on the dash to soak up the drips also comes in handy to wipe the surface of my Solihul fog machine. - Tony From NADdMD@aol.com Sun Jun 4 09:54:23 1995 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 09:54:23 -0400 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Temperature Sending Unit Success Just an update, After purchasing a new 3/4" socket with a hex shaped box instead of multiple points and a longer socket handle, I applied a firm, constant force and was able to remove the "locktite" sealed adapter seat from the head with a only a minimum of perspiration (mostly nervous). The new sender unit fit well and with the addition of some teflon tape to the threads, it is coolant tight. I am presently enjoying the satisfaction of having a relative idea of engine coolant temperature. Thanks for the imput Nate "give me a long enough lever and I'll move the world" Dunsmore Boring, MD USA NADdMD@aol.com From "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com> 04 95 Jun EDT 1916 Date: 04 Jun 95 16:02:44 EDT From: "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com> Subject: Oil Pressure Sending Unit Hi everyone, I'm looking for a Smith's oil pressure guage (electric) sending unit. My 71 IIA 88 came with the guage installed. The sending unit threads into a banjo next to the oil filter base in line with the oil pressure warning light switch. It has one electric lead attached to the top. Does anyone know of a replacement part other than the Rovers North "genuine" stuff that will work ?? Anyone have a spare they would like to sell that they know works...??? Thanks for your help.. Tony Bonanno Santa Fe, NM From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Jun 4 17:20:33 1995 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 95 17:20:33 PDT From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Kodiak heaters in a SIII All, Saw the thread on Kodiak heaters. I have one from the 61 IIA I was breaking. Has anyone fitted a Kodiak to a SIII ? I've had a good look at the SIII dash, and I think it will fit, just wanted to pass this by anyone who may have tried this. I'm not sure what type I have, the core is inside the passenger footwell. Mark From harincar@internet.mdms.com Sun Jun 4 20:09:17 1995 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 20:09:17 -0500 From: harincar@internet.mdms.com Subject: oil filter conversion Hi all, I went about and converted the oil filter to a spin-on yesterday in my '66 IIa. Total time for completion was about three hours, give or take. I know that that sounds like a long time, but you know how the afternoon just sort of escapes... Anyhow, my initial reaction to this project would be that it would've gone signifigantly faster with a friend (and a second 5/8" wrench). Why? So one could be tightening the top bolt of the new filter mount while and one doing the bottom. A couple of observations: The new unit was from RN, and installation was about as straightforward as you can get. There was a margin of difficulty in accessing the bolts, you need to get one from the underside and one from the top - so there was a lot of need to tighten the new mount a bit from the bottom, then a bit from the top, then a bit more from the bottom and so on. Thats where the friend would be handy - saving lots of changing position. On my unit, the combination of the bolt, lock washer and flat washer made the group fit rather tight in the slot making finger tightening impossible. I ended up spinning the whole unit to first get the top bolt started and then worked the bottom one by hand (if you buy one of these, you'll see what I mean. The new unti is shaped like a sideways 'H' in cross section with the bolt in each gap.) I put the pressure sensor back on first, in difference to the instructions- it was easier to access the port that way. Have lots of rags handy - it ended up to be one of the messyist jobs I've had to do, oil on everything. Anyhow, there are no leaks yet, and I hope this pays off in the form of cleaner, faster and more frequent oil changes in the future. So, anyone want to buy a cannester-type oil filter assembly for a IIa? ;-) Tim '66 IIa 88 SW --- tim harincar moore graphic services harincar@internet.mdms.com minneapolis, mn From harincar@internet.mdms.com Sun Jun 4 20:18:30 1995 Date: Sun, 4 Jun 1995 20:18:30 -0500 From: harincar@internet.mdms.com Subject: turn signal arm wheel Another question: Does anyone know where I can get a new rubber wheel for my turn signal unit? Its in a IIa, one of the TEX-something or other strap on the column type (jeeze, I don't even know if this is original equip. or not). The one thats on there is very soft and badly cracked and seems like it might come apart at any time. Thanks, Tim '66 IIa 88 SW --- tim harincar From "LAURA SUURN[KKI, ML{ STA1, P. 511 6673" Mon Jun 5 12:00:05 1995 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 12:00:05 +0400 (EET-DST) From: "LAURA SUURN[KKI, ML{ STA1, P. 511 6673" Subject: www-places? Sorry if this is not the right place, but i am looking for info on www places of 4-wheel-drive, off-road etc. Any info you might have would be nice. I am searching for info on buying a 4X4, fixing it and using it. I am also considering doing a www page for a local off-road club. (Local is near Helsinki, Finland.) Thank you for any information you might send Laura (laura.suurnakki@ntc.nokia.com) From Easton Trevor Mon Jun 05 08:06:00 1995 Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 08:06:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: "GEN" Parts Mike Slade wrote >" I specifically asked if these were 'genuine' parts, I was assured that they were and patiently waited for my order." >" they were from a company called Hardy Spicer" Genuine parts come from many sub contractors to create a whole Land Rover and spares don't always come in a Land Rover box. In some cases the aftermarket wholesale supplier will provide the same part in either a "plain brown wrapper" or a Land Rover Genuine parts box at additional cost. Which package would you rather have? This is the reason to find and keep a reliable supplier, especially if using mail order. Because of the popularity of Land Rover in out of the way places there are many obscure third world manufacturers producing parts of dubious merit which are sold at prices "too good to miss". These parts find their way into the aftermarket supply chain and are often sold as genuine (boxes are cheap to copy too) and it isn't until the parts fail that the final customer learns the truth. Remember Caveat Emptor and find a faithful mechanic/parts man Trevor Easton 1962 SWB SW "Miss Golightly" (See you at Owls Head) From "David McKain" Mon Jun 5 08:49:30 1995 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 08:49:30 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Sacraficial Landie Picked up a 1964 SIIa yesterday that had been sitting in a shed since 1977. Too bad the previous owners had used it as a battering ram of sorts. Both of the front fenders were caved in and the bumper had seen much better days. It also had a nice rip down the passenger side so much of the lower body was unuseable. In addition, both front springs were broken and the front axle had eaten away the engine pully. The good news is that the engine only has 30,000 miles on it and the frame has only surface rust. The last time this vehicle was legal was back in 1977. Sorry to say that the vehicle is being parted out. Three of us went in on the deal. One of us gets the frame, I get the tropical roof (complete with bullet hole, this is WV of course), rear door, and front door uppers, and another gets the radiator, heater (Kodiak MkIII), and firewall. In addition, the dual water temp/ oil pressure gauge will fit nicely into my 1966. The 16" rims will go into a collection as well as the drivetrain and other various sundries. A pretty good deal for $700. In addition to this LR, I have located over a dozen LR hulks in various stages of neglect around the rest of WV. Wish I had the cash to stockpile them but I guess they will wait a while longer. Just thought this might be of interest. Take care, seems to work David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From Russell Burns Mon Jun 5 6:46:04 1995 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 95 6:46:04 PDT From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Temperature Sending Unit Success I have noticed that both my Rovers, D-90 R-Rover will display a hotter temp for the first 10-15 minutes, then run cooler. I attribute this to some hysterises in the thermastat. I have been assuming that the engine heats up quicker than the thermostat can react.> Does the gauge peg on the cool side, or just registor cooler. Russ Burns > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Did your sending unit work at all prior to replacement? My 87 RR temp gauge [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > Andrew > Dayton, Oh From Sanna@aol.com Mon Jun 5 10:09:47 1995 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 10:09:47 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: turn signal arm wheel Tim - If you can't find a wheel, let me know. I think I have a whole turn signal unit buried in my box of spares. It would take some looking. No promises. - Tony From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Mon Jun 5 07:28:36 1995 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 07:28:36 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: winches! >Now for the purpose of my post for 2day. I have just purchased a new >tractor battery for my RR, and in doing so i chatted to a few people and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >bullet proof, so soon in a new cradle and with a little more class , > the previously Toyota serving spool may find itself hauling my RR >about. That is unless anyone can suggest reasons not to use it....... Brian, I hadn't heard of a Thomas winch before reading your message but do know something about the Ramsey PTO winch. I think Ramseys are good winches, among the best. But here's what I found out about parts: I got an old Land-Rover which was equipped with a Ramsey 8,000 lb. PTO winch. The winch was disconnected and had the cable removed. It did not seem to anxious to turn, so I took it apart. Due to a leaky seal, it had lost most of its oil and then been used hard. The teeth on the brass worm wheel gear (bull gear) were pretty chewed up on the edge. So I got ahold of Berens Associates in the Bay Area which supplies parts for most brands of winches, at 800-540-2858. Well, they can get parts but they ain't cheap. The parts I needed would have cost about $300 and that by getting the thrust bearings at a local bearing house; it I'd have gotten them from Berens too, it would have been well over $300. $185 or some such just for the one gear! Only about $500 for a brand new Ramsy PTO winch (not including any of the driveline, which I can reuse). I have put the Ramsey winch in a box and will let it mellow awhile and think about this. Meanwhile, I installed a two-speed 6,000/12,000# Tensen TX-2 electric winch on my Land-Rover and am pretty happy with it (now available in "improved" form, under the brand name Megawinch). I like a PTO winch and still may rebuild the Ramsey one of these days. Maybe I can find a cheaper parts source. But it could be worse. It could have been a Koenig. Good winches, I think, but parts are a problem. Cheers, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, CA (707)485-7220 (home) (707)463-4265 (work) '73 Land-Rover 88, more LRs, Austin Champ, BMW 3.0si, Peugeot 505 Turbo... From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Jun 5 10:33:33 1995 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 95 10:33:33 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Back under the Rover In message <199506040125.UAA11431@butler.uk.stratus.com> Richard Wegner writes: ; Tip for Dave Brown and others replacing tie rod ends, don't forget to put ; anti-seize compound on the threads of the new tie rod before putting it ; into the center rod. That way if you have to take it apart again it will be ; a breeze, or you will make it easier for the next owner. ; ; Later.......Richard Richard, Thanks for the tip. I'm at the stage on my front swivel pin rebuild where its time to put new boots on the tie rod ends and connect them to the drop arms. I'll coat the tapered ends with antisize per your suggestion. Most Excellent timing! For those who were not tuned in at the begining of the episode: I came back from a Land Rover run intermittiently dragging a front brake shoe and with a very slow brake fluid leak. Upon inspection, I found: - greasy front brake shoes, - About 1/2 inch vertical play on the front left wheel. I had been avoiding a swivel pin rebuild but the time had come.. - a slight leak on one of the wheel cylinders - water in the front axle housing. Threads stripped on the front breather and the mud was a little deep in places on the last run. - cracked front rubber brake hoses - The rust on the front right brake line looked a little deep So in a fit of repair fever and a little ship fitters disease, the front swivel balls came off along with all the brake lines on the 109 (Some may remember that I converted my 109's brakes to duel power brakes, but put off doing the brake lines). Scotty rebuilt the swivel pins for me and I got them back and installed the front balls last night. The brake back plates have a fresh coat of black paint, and hopefully new wheel cylinders and a new tube between the duel wheel cylinders will go on the back plates tonight. If there is enough light maybe the back plate & front stub axles will go on tonight too. I am putting on a gurling pressure valve (that 'H' shaped casting that goes on duel brake systems to block off any brake system that fails. Rover started using one after they stopped importing LRs to the US). I'm having custom hydrolic tubes make up at my local hose shop. Hopefull the first group of tubes should be ready by mid week so I can build enough of the system to measure the lengths for the front tubes. I will be replacing the axle breathers with Land Rover raised axle breathers. While everything was appart, I went ahead and put new silver hammertone paint on the oil filler cap, valve cover breather, air filter and the air cleaner elbow fitting to the carb (black). And changed the oil & filter, and adjusted the valves... What I haven't got around to, is unpacking the camping gear from the last outing. Guess I'll have to take her out & test drive the car after she gets back on the road. The camping gear will come in handy for the test drive. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From lenagham@bachman.com Mon Jun 05 16:36:00 1995 Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 16:36:00 EST From: lenagham@bachman.com Subject: Re[2]: RR Defroster The A/C and heater combination on the 'old' Range Rovers are not very sophisticated systems! Things improved greatly when they put a proper HVAC system in the vehicle when they redesigned the dash for the LWB version. I have an 87 RR whose system is even cruder than the 89's. The A/C system is essentially an add on to the standard heating system and shares some controls. When the A/C is on - the fan switch operates the A/C fans blowing air through the vents only. When the A/C is off - the fan switch operates the heater fan blowing air to the floor and or screen. The vent open/close control does allow outside air to flow through the vents but not very efficiently, you could try cleaning the filters in the cowl but things don't improve very much. When you switch the A/C on the outside air flow should be shut off since the A/C works in recirc mode only. The defroster/defogger control directs air to the windscreen but this air is not dehumidified, so if the air is moist then this can be a real problem. Most car systems have the heater/defrost integrated with the A/C so that turning the A/C on will dehumidify the air in the car thus clearing the screen much faster. This is what Rover attempted to do with that second position on the function switch (added in the 89 model year) - it causes the A/C to be switched on and directs dehumidified air to wherever you have the floor /screen switch set. For max defrosting you should have the vent switch set to closed. The floor/screen switch to screen, the function switch to the second position and the fan to max. From JCassidyiv@aol.com Mon Jun 5 18:00:54 1995 Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 18:00:54 -0400 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Wood Just got a 1987 Range Rover and I need to restore the wood in the door panels. What's the easiet way to remove these for refinishing? Cheers, John Cassidy 1966 IIA 88 1987 Range Rover 1995 Dicovery From kgb@tigger.cc.uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Sun Jun 5 21:28:48 1994 Date: Sun, 5 Jun 1994 21:28:48 -0500 From: kgb@tigger.cc.uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: Fogs and temp sending units >Oh yes, and I forgot to say that my '89's windshield leaks water in the >center... and I don't live in the desert. In a downpour I have this nagging [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >soak up the drips also comes in handy to wipe the surface of my Solihul fog >machine. - Tony Tony good fix! The way I see it, you can buy a lot of dish towels for the money you would spend on the $300 heated front windshield >From: NADdMD@aol.com >I am presently enjoying the satisfaction of having a relative idea of engine >coolant temperature. Isn't it always the case, but just at the end of a thread, that's when you get a problem. I don't want to say "hey everyone, repeat what you just said," but is there some inexpensive american made substitute for the temp sensor in the 89 RR. Mine is reading a really low temp, but the engine seems to be warming up rather nicely... pleanty of coolant too. Sounds like this is a common problem too. kgb ************************************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Whoa! I'm on the web ************************************************************************* From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Mon Jun 05 21:02:56 1995 Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 21:02:56 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Robin Is back Sorry for my absence, I'm now back on line on a regular basis. Check you mail boxes for some well over due replies to mail Rgeards Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Andrew Steele Mon Jun 05 23:32:48 1995 Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 23:32:48 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Re: Range Rover Wood I pried mine out about two weeks ago with a car key. Probably it should be done with a wider, flat blade screwdriver. They are a friction fit only, and the surrounding molding easily pried away for me with no damage. Incidently, I used teak? oil from Scan, which seems to be working very well. I used a ery heavy application w/ lots of rubbing as the wood trim had not been oiled for several years. Remember, please no tea spills on the wood trim, would hate to get a stain..... Andrew Dayton, OH 87 RR and new to my garage, a non running 73 Series III. From lro@arcadiax1.arcadia.polimi.it Tue Jun 6 08:40:15 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:40:15 +0100 (GMT+0100) From: lro@arcadiax1.arcadia.polimi.it Subject: back to the list....:) I made it back to the list, at last........ I have installed seFrom "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Jun EDT 1904 Date: 06 Jun 95 04:24:50 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Heater air recirculation on RR John Grant unravels the mysteries of the RR heating system... >vacuum. Well, when the air is set to not recirculate the valve opens and >the "suck" holds open the air intake flap. After a few years it burns out - ...you never stop learning. I had a hunch that it wasn't quite normal for the RR to turn into a humid sauna when operating the heating in winter. Well, following Johns advice I found the vacuum pipe and followed it into the engine bay, only to discover that it was dangling there and wasn't connected to anything. Can't even blame a PO for that because it was _us_ who had the engine out and installed everything - almost. On the other hand I can't find any free point or intake where to connect this vacuum hose, there's something connected everywhere! Where exactly does it go?? (on a '87 3.5 Efi that is...) Puzzled, Stefan From Andrew Grafton Tue Jun 6 10:54:06 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 10:54:06 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Tyres for a 109 > I now also steer clear of retreads after a rather exciting > tread-shedding episode in the Dartford tunnel some years ago. This was You too?! What is it with the Dartford tunnel? I shed a remould tread in there a couple of years ago... I'm still pottering about on remoulds, though! The problem has raised its ugly head again, although this time it's for an expedition. The bottom line is cost - Remoulds are half the price of a reasonably well specified new tyre, and we're not too worried about the inconvenience of having to change a tyre if one does go wrong. Most of the distance will be on not-too-rough terrain or tarmac at low speeds. I spoke at length to Colway tyres about their remoulds and whilst the chap did admit that they go wrong, he was very positive about the advances in remould technology. Then again, he did work for the company... ;-) They wouldn't put their money (or tyres) where their mouth was. One of the big arguments in his favour was that we'd be operating at about 1/2 the maximum specified speed and load rating. He was less forthcoming about what would happen to the tread if we were traversing a sideslope fully laden in high temperatures. The thing we have to weigh up is the possibility of a catastrophic failure of a tyre at a critical point, resulting in a crunched vehicle. That can, however, happen to a new tyre. Anyone out there have a remould *really* go wrong, not just throw the tread? Just my opinions so far... Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From "Steve Methley" Tue Jun 6 11:00:47 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:00:47 +0100 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: Temperature Sending Unit Success (V8 comments) Russ says: >I have noticed that both my Rovers, D-90 R-Rover will display >a hotter temp for the first 10-15 minutes, then run cooler. I >attribute this to some hysterises in the thermastat. I have >been assuming that the engine heats up quicker than the thermostat can react Yes, my explanation is along the same lines. The problem with electric temp guages (and oil for that matter) is that they are painfully slow, obscuring the behaviour of what you are trying to measure. Connect a capilliary water temp guage and see in real time what is happening. You'll see that at the designated temp the 'stat opens (feel the top hose to know when) and then the real hot stuff from the block flows out past the sensor and whips the gauge over quite alarmingly if you're not expecting it. The V8 heats a lot of water don't forget. What you are seeing is this normal behaviour diluted by the slow response time of your electric gauge. Don't worry too much. I'd say your cooling flow must be a little slower than mine however, 15 minutes is getting on the longish side. -- Best Regards, Steve. From Franz.Parzefall@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE Tue Jun 6 13:39:38 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 13:39:38 +0200 (MET DST) From: Franz.Parzefall@Physik.TU-Muenchen.DE Subject: Where to get military Land Rovers? Hi all! Last week I took a look at an exmilitary 1989 D110. The car was a dream: no rust anywhere and it looked brandnew. The only problem was the price - 25000DM a bit more than I can spend. The owner told me, that he bought it in Berlin from the British Army, but he didn't want to tell me where exactly. Can anybody here on the list tell me where in Europe (need not necessarily be Berlin) the British Army sells their old Defenders? Thanks ! Franz --------------------------------------------------------------- Franz Parzefall fparzefa@physik.tu-muenchen.de --------------------------------------------------------------- From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Tue Jun 6 08:36:11 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:36:11 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: HOT IN HERE With no heater shut-off valve in the IIA it's hot in here. I bought a SRIII shut-off valve from RN to install. Anyone had any experience doing this? Guy at RN said that the pull knob will work backwards. True? Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIA 88" SW BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland, USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Mon Jun 05 21:55:00 1995 Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 21:55:00 -700 From: brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Subject: RR 02 Continued from the previous message... úÿ Compared to my Mercedes, this is way underpowered. But compared to the average car, or especially to the average sport-ute, I think the power is OK. You do have to get used to shoving the accelerator a long way though. If you use a lot of leg and let the engine rev up, it goes very well. BI> want power to be applied in a very gradual way. My transmission shif BI> rough side, which may be due to not being broken in at this point in My trans is smooth as silk. Much better than my Benz, about the same as my Lexus was. Check your trans oil level first (check it COLD idling in neutral). If that's OK, have your dealer look at it. It should be very smooth. BI> miles. Apparently, there is no strong consensus as to how often to c BI> oil once you put in Mobil One. Yeah, do what you think is best. I'm just passing along my experience. cc: LAND ROVER OWNERS in 0002 on INNPARK You've heard from..... Brian Imdieke Phoenix, Arizona USA --- þ RM 1.3 01654 þ Imagine the child of Oscar Mayer and Betty Crocker. * KMail 3.00 IOTP: AZ's LARGEST PCBoard - with INTERNET! From brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Mon Jun 05 21:55:00 1995 Date: Mon, 05 Jun 95 21:55:00 -700 From: brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Subject: RR 01 ÛßßßßßßßßÛ Original To: BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN Û CARBON Û was By: BRIAN IMDIEKE Û COPY Û posted: On: INNPARK ÛÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÜÛ Conf: 0002 - INTERNET EMAI ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BI> Well, with your encouragement, I did take my SE off road and what a BI> experience. However, I feel very guilty about getting this car in th Hoorrraaaayyyyy! Told you it was great! BI> certainly the mud is out of the question at this point in time. I pu BI> avoided trees or anything that will scratch the paint. I still have BI> taking my Series IIA vehicles off road in heavy brush. Well I've had mine DEEEEP in the mud. The way I see it, you got to get the undercarriage covered with a layer of mud to keep that black undercoating stuff from dripping on your driveway. Besides, sliding around in it is fun! Better have someone around to pull you out though, just in case. I know what you mean about the scratches. I do most of my off road stuff in the mountains in northern AZ. I have a second home there so it's easy to jump out on the trails on weekends. Trails up here are usually pretty narrow so some light scratching from tree limbs is a regular event. So far though, I've been able to remove them with wax. My last vehicle was a late model Land Cruiser. Even after three years of tree limbs, all the scratches waxed off before trade-in. That was a good vehicle off road by the way. I have covered many trails in the SE that I had previously done in the Cruiser and the SE is definitely better off road. It's just that it is so much easier. The suspension soaks up large rocks, ruts and the like and the traction control makes climbing loose/steep trails a breeze. Add in the additional comfort and smoothness on road and I'm happier than pigs in mud. BI> I really believe this vehicle is made primarily for off-road activit BI> though 99% of us won't do that. The details and precision of this ve BI> compare, in my opinion, to the Lexus. I think for many of us, it is Well, I don't know if it's made *primarily* for off road use, but it is a shame that more people don't use these vehicles to get off the beaten path and see the other America. Get together with your Rover dealer and other Rover owners and take your SE on some of their excursions. You don't have to hurt it to use it the way it was intended. You paid a lot of money for 'the most capable luxury vehicle in the world' so enjoy it. If something should go wrong, take it in, get it fixed and head straight back out into the bush. That's what you work so hard for everyday. BI> psychology of knowing that you have a vehicle that -- from an engine BI> standpoint -- is superb, even though it is not as compulsively made BI> the Japanese cars. Yeah, I have to say that my Lexus was screwed together very well. But, it lacked soul. Character. Oh, that thing never broke, but it wasn't FUN either. I've never regretted trading it for my Mercedes. BI> The climate control is really a problem for me also. When I put it o BI> blower continues to go no matter what the interior temperature is. L BI> Florida, we also get a lot of sun. Today is a cloudy day and it seem BI> blower isn't running as high. I am not sure what triggers this. Is i BI> temperature or is it ambient light? On the dash, nest to the LED for the alarm system, is a round disk about the size of a nickel. That is the solar sensor. It measures the amount of direct sunlight hitting the car and kicks the fan up to compensate. Living in Florida, you have the same problem as I do. We don't need the sun to be very hot! While I like the solar sensor, I think the system should also be concerned with the temperature difference between the set temperature and the actual in-car temp. Around here, on a hot night the car will never get to the set temp. because the fan is too slow. Sounds like you have the same problem. BI> I am sure you have noticed by now that the engine is slightly under BI> the weight of this vehicle and the linkage of the accelorator is ext BI> thereby requiring lots of travel before you have adequate accelorati BI> suspect this is done purposefully because in an off-road situation, úÿ Continued in the next message... --- * KMail 3.00 IOTP: AZ's LARGEST PCBoard - with INTERNET! From Charlie Wright Tue Jun 6 14:42:38 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 14:42:38 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: HOT IN HERE I guess you mean cut-off valve in the water-hoses? I don't know where your heater hoses tap into the cooling system, but on both my IIa's ('70 and '66) I find a cut-off valve on the point that the hose leaves the head. You might have a look. It's not much use on the road, but it works as a seasonal thing. Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From lenagham@bachman.com Tue Jun 06 10:13:50 1995 Date: Tue, 06 Jun 95 10:13:50 EST From: lenagham@bachman.com Subject: Re[2]: Heater air recirculation on RR Stefan, the vacuum routing on the 87 RR (3.5 EFI North American Spec) for the recirculating solenoid is as follows: At the front rhs of the plenum chamber there is a vacuum line that should take a torturous route to the vacuum resevoir (a black sphere located at the left front of the engine compartment right under the air intake) the vacuum line should be fitted to the connection closest to the radiator. The output of the resevoir goes into the vehicle, I assume to the solenoid. There is probably a T-connection under the dash that also supplies this vacuum signal to the cruise control, since another vacuum line feeds through the dash panel to a T piece in the engine compartment that is connected to to the vacuum control on the throttle linkage and also to the cruise control solenoid down near the vacuum resevoir. Hope this helps. Mike Lenaghan 87 RR From Charlie Wright Tue Jun 6 15:27:49 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 15:27:49 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: RR 02 On Mon, 5 Jun 1995, BRIAN IMDIEKE wrote: > Continued from the previous message... > Compared to my Mercedes, this is way underpowered. But compared to the > average car, or especially to the average sport-ute, I think the power is > OK. Sorry Brian, but you're not winning a lot of sympathy from the oily-wadders... > You do have to get used to shoving the accelerator a long way > though. If you use a lot of leg and let the engine rev up, it goes > very well. If I drive off a cliff into a downdraft, mine goes pretty well too. > BI> want power to be applied in a very gradual way. My transmission shif > BI> rough side, which may be due to not being broken in at this point in Try double-de-clutching? ;-) > My trans is smooth as silk. Much better than my Benz, about the same as > my Lexus was. Check your trans oil level first (check it COLD idling > in neutral). If that's OK, have your dealer look at it. It should be > very smooth. If the terrain is rough enough, you shouldn't notice... > BI> miles. Apparently, there is no strong consensus as to how often to c > BI> oil once you put in Mobil One. Whenever you get water in the sump from wading up to your neck, or every 8-10,000 'highway miles' (this is a recommendation I've really seen.) > Yeah, do what you think is best. I'm just passing along my experience. Gentlemen, what we (and I speak for at least two of us) really want you to pass along is a fine collection of off-road impressions, anecdotes, and jpegs of you up to your window-sills in mud. Go get those monster machines dirty! I want to know they're being used... Cheers, Charlie From "David McKain" Tue Jun 6 11:15:21 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 11:15:21 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Tropical Roof Just looking for some recommendations. I just obtained a slightly used tropical roof for my series LR and would like to get any recommendations on taking the skin off the top. Should I or shouldn't I? It needs some preperation before I put any paint on it but in general it only has a few dings. Is it worth the trouble? Any help is appreciated. BTW, the 88 mentioned in sacraficial landie yesterday is about two hours from complete disassembly. Like all LR's this one could have been declared as a complete ecosystem, lots of mice, bugs, and various flora (weeds and lychen). David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From "Richard Lucking" Tue Jun 6 16:38:35 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 16:38:35 GB/EIRE From: "Richard Lucking" Subject: Thanks!!! I am off home for the summer soon, so am unsubscribing Thanks for some great advice and occasional humour :-) See you all in september! If anyone is going to be in the Sussex (UK!) area, feel free to give me a ring on 01903 260240, and maybe we could meet! Cheers Tricky --------------------------------------------------------------------- Richard Lucking phone:(0161) 224 6641 (Term) email:bu063@ist2.co.umist.ac.uk (Flat 48) Life is a Sexually Transmitted Disease, invariably fatal Disclaimer: All opinions are my own, or so I've been told.... ===================================================================== From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Tue Jun 6 09:40:32 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 09:40:32 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: My sick 88 Range Rover Thanks for keeping us posted on this Mark. Did you notice any reduction in cooling capability (ie higher than normal temps??) Cheers John John Brabyn 89RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Tue Jun 6 09:48:35 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 09:48:35 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: RR heated windshields I've had the same positive experience with the heated windshield -- great in ice and snow. I have also tried it for normal defrosting, and lo and behold it clears the windshield in seconds, much faster than the demisting fan. As far as cost benefit goes, I'm not sure it's worth the extra $300 though! Probably depends on your local climate. Cheers John John Brabyn 89RR From Charlie Wright Tue Jun 6 17:54:59 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 17:54:59 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: RR 01 I got those messages out of order. Excellent to hear some SE's are seeing the dirtier side of life! Get those photos developed so someone can get 'em online. Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Tue Jun 6 10:03:28 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 10:03:28 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Temperature Sending Unit Success I had a problem a couple of years ago with the temp gauge sending unit on my 89RR. It would suddenly fly off the deep end, making me think something nasty had happened to the engine. Fortunately, only Lucas had happened to it, and a new sender fixed the problem, although the new one seems to have a different "personality" than the old one. For some reason the sender is fearfully expensive, about $50. Before replacing it you could do a couple of things like removing it and checking it in hot water with a meter. Also even before removing it, check the voltage applied to it; it should be abpout 10 volts, from a voltage regulator in the instrument binnacle (part of the so-called multifunction unit) that also supplies a regulated voltage for the tachometer. If the tach is also on the blink, suspect this. However, overall, the most likely problem os the sender itself, as is invariably the case whenever a light comes on or a gauge reads abnormal on a Rover. Keep us posted Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Jun 6 12:05:32 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 95 12:05:32 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: 109 brake question HELP HELP HELP SUBJECT: 109 2.25L engine front brakes SITUATION: I removed my front brake backplates from my car without noting which side was which for cleaning and painting while the swivel pins were being rebuilt. I went to put them back on last night and discovered that the factory manual not only doesn't tell you which side which back plate goes on but none of the drawings show the 109 front brake backplate in such a way as you can guess which side its on. QUESTION: How does one determine which side a front 109 brake plate goes on. The two plates are mirror images of each other. My guess is that the front brake adjuster sits near the top of the back plate and the rear adjuster fits fits low on the back plate. Can anyone near a 109 run out & verify this for me? I would love to put the back plates on tonight. Thanks! TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Tue Jun 6 17:32:22 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 17:32:22 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Camel Trophy Daily Log [I've been trying to send this for 18,no 24 hours now...on Sunday, my service provider said that the system would be down "for a couple of hours" while they made "upgrades". Yeah...right...like putting new string between the two tin cans....] "Lions and tigers and bears, oh my...." This weekend, a triple threat greeted the Camel Trophy expedition: A volcano blew up to the south of them, a hurricane (the earliest on record, BTW) blew up to the north and guerrillas were all around. Saturday, June 3rd - When we last saw the Camel Trophy team, they were departing Izabal for a 48 hour navigation task; the goal was the town of Sanat Rosa, about 30 km from the Belize border. Rather that traveling en masse, the expedition had once again broken into groups of three to four vehicles, and were given the choice of what route to take to the destination. One group, arriving near dusk at an isolated village, Bartolomei de las Cruces, inquired about campsites nearby. The police chief informed them that Guatemalan guerrillas were everywhere outside of town and that travel would be dangerous. Santa Rosa was to be the jumping off point for "the sting in the tail" - a two plus day slog through to Belize. Up until now, it has been one of the hottest and driest springs on record; a drought may well have sealed the fate of the Maya centuries ago [see sidebar], but rains from tropical storm Allison had drenched the area and turned the tracks from Santa Rosa into quagmires. Meanwhile, temperatures in Xunatunich, the finish, reached 48 C on Saturday. (Really?? Hey, that's what the press release said!) Sunday, June 4th - The promised mud finally materialized as the 33 vehicles departed Santa Rosa for Belize: it took five hours to cover just 10 km. The tracks through the jungle criss-crossed the frontier many times; however, the only sign of habitation was a temporary camp. There, one family was quite surprised by the appearance of the convoy on the move. By sundown, the team had camped near the border town of Arenal. Monday was to be the final day on the road (so to speak) before the final set of special tasks at the finish. There, the second group special task will serve as a warm-up to the 11 individual special task events that will decide the winner. [Sidebar] Researchers think that they have finally solved the mystery of the decilne of the Maya, a civilization that fell into ruin between 750 and 900 AD. Population booms and subsequent migrations, constant border wars and environmental stress have all been considered as possible causes, but by analyzing 15' long cores from the bottom of Lake Chichancanab that were deposited over the last 9,000 years, scientists think they now have the answer. Previously, it was impossible to tell if alterations to the environment were caused by climate or people. By analyzing these sediments (specifically, a ratio of gypsum to calcite), researchers have determined that the period between 800 and 1000 AD was the driest in the past 7,200 years. With the landscapes around the Mayan cities deforested by an increasing population and pressures from nearby civilizations, a two century drought exacerbated an already perilous situation. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Charlie Wright Tue Jun 6 22:36:24 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 22:36:24 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: 109 brake question I can tell you (without having a chance to look at mine until I get home) that the front brakes on a 109 are twin leading shoes. That is, the rotation INCREASES braking force in the forward direction (as opposed to the rear brakes, where one shoe leads and one shoe trails). Based on that fact, the locations you are guessing for the adjusters sound correct... and if you get them wrong, you can tell by the way the shoes fit.... twin trailing brakes would only work well in reverse. Based on this fact and some recollections of the last time I had the front brakes off myself: Looking at the left front wheel (so that it rotates anti-clockwise when going forward), the shoes would have to mounted so that the front shoe pivoted at the bottom and the rear shoe at the top. That would mean front cylinder at the top, rear cylinder at the bottom. Wheel cylinder (for front shoe) | //-{=] o <-pivot point Front // \\ Shoe-> || O || <- Rear Shoe [Looking at front left wheel/backplate] \\ // o [=}-// | | Wheel cylinder (for rear shoe) Rotation of road wheel. \ '-> This should give you enough reference points to get them on the right way (or figure out if you have it wrong.) Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Tue Jun 6 21:17:15 1995 Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 21:17:15 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Old Single Wiper Motor Resoration I recall someone recently posting an extended description of restoration/work on the old single wiper motors (on the LRO Digest). In my obviously finite wisdom I managed to delete the file. Can anyone repost this or tell me how to access any archived information. Dim wits of the world appreciate your assistance. Thanks, Jeremy Bartlett jjbpears@ix.netcom.com From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jun 07 01:03:59 1995 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 01:03:59 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Fowarded message I'm fowarding this for Robert Davis. He has been having some mail problems. Cheers Mike ---------------------forwarded message--------------------------------- From kgb@tigger.cc.uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Tue Jun 7 00:33:13 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:33:13 -0500 From: kgb@tigger.cc.uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: Transfer Case I gave my '89 RR to a mechanic friend of mine so that he could tow his boat to the water. Well, of all things, he gave it back to me with a laundry list of problems (not his doing, just his finding). He says that my transfer case chain is loose. We knew the car made a thump when shifting (the AT) from D -> R. But while driving, the car makes a whine (when the drivetrain is engaged) which he says is the loose chain in the transfer case. Since neither of us has seen the inside of the RR transfer case, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU KNOWLEDGEABLE FRIENDLY PEOPLE FOR HELP. Can I expect any surprises when I take down my transfer case? When I open it up, will I have to replace the gears or can I change the chain without doing that. Is there a replacement chain (or other parts) from another car like an AMC Jeep or a Ford truck? I drive my car every day to work... what parts should I have ready to complete this job (ie. any seals I should know about) I do have the owners shop manual, but it does not tell all (at least not like you people do.) I appreciate the help. There will be more questions posted under different subject headings. Feel free to skip them if you are not interested in helping people like myself. Quote of the day, "If I could afford to fix the RR, then would I be fixing it myself?" Unlike many of you, I do not fix my car for the love of it (although it is fun) I do it because I'm flat broke! kgb ************************************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Whoa! I'm on the web ************************************************************************* From kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Tue Jun 7 00:33:30 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:33:30 -0500 From: kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: Frozen brake calipers This friend - Andy - claims that it is my romps through mud and high water that is causing the frozen calipers on my '89 RR. I argue that it seems kind of strange that a car designed specifically for that should die after a brief stroll through mud. Anyway, any suggestions as to what parts I should order prior to unfreezing my brakes. This could take all day, and I don't want my RR to spend a single night on the vertical hotel. Again, your input is valued. kgb ************************************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Whoa! I'm on the web ************************************************************************* From kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Tue Jun 7 00:33:40 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:33:40 -0500 From: kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: Temp sending units Are there 2 temp sending units? One to the gauge and one to the computer? Is the computer seeing the same eroneous reading the gauge is showing? kgb ************************************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Whoa! I'm on the web ************************************************************************* From kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Tue Jun 7 00:33:24 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:33:24 -0500 From: kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: Steering gear box On my '89 RR I have power steering (PS) fluid leaking down on to my left front control arm. Not a problem, but I am destroying my bushings there on a monthly basis. I thought the leak came from the bottom of the PS fluid resevoir. My friend (let's just call him Andy for arguments sake), so "Andy" suggested that it was in fact my PS gear box which was leaking and he thinks I have to open it up and put in new seals. Anyone seen this problem on a late 80's RR, where was your leak and how did you fix it? (as you can see, unlike many ship fitters out there, I don't want to start a job unless I know what I'm getting into. (I need my car to get to work every day). Your help is appreciated kgb ************************************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Whoa! I'm on the web ************************************************************************* From kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Tue Jun 7 00:33:19 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:33:19 -0500 From: kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: Frame holes My friend also noticed that the frame has some holes in it used to hold the RR during shipping. He proposes that someone attached the hooks too enthusiastically and tore/bent the frame slightly. He suggests that if there are many people like me out there with torn frames (due to impropper shipping), then maybe we can try to convince Land Rover (or the responsible party) to give us new frames. Of course common sense would dictate that something like that would have been discovered already, so I can only conclude that I am shit out of luck. Doesn't hurt to ask however. kgb ************************************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Whoa! I'm on the web ************************************************************************* From kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Tue Jun 7 00:33:35 1994 Date: Tue, 7 Jun 1994 00:33:35 -0500 From: kgb@uic.edu (Ken Berliner) Subject: 89 RR for sale :) Just kidding, I could never part with my RR. Actually, my friend likes mine so much, he's wondering if any of you might be selling a LR or RR out here in the northern midwestern states. (We're in Chicago). kgb ************************************************************************* Reachable at E-mail: kgb@uic.edu WWW: http://www.uic.edu/~kgb/ <- Whoa! I'm on the web ************************************************************************* From root@ocs.cpsg.com.au Wed Jun 7 15:54:55 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 95 15:54:55 EST From: root@ocs.cpsg.com.au Subject: Re: Steering gear box When my parents bought their 89 110, it's Power steering box was leaking, and they found out that it was cheaper to get a change over box, than to put knew seals in it, so that might be the quickest, and cheapest way to go. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passedFrom Tom Stevenson Wed Jun 7 11:07:23 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 11:07:23 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Leaky PS box Ken If the power steering is still working but is just leaking oil from the bottom where the vertical shaft emerges, then it is worth trying to replace the bottom shaft seal only , which can be done without removing the PS box from the vehicle. This is held in place by a large circlip. If this does not work then I would recommend a new PS box, since fitting all new seals alone rarely works well because of wear/pitting etc on the moving parts inside the PS box. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Charlie Wright Wed Jun 7 11:22:43 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 11:22:43 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Frozen brake calipers On Tue, 7 Jun 1994, Ken Berliner wrote: > This friend - Andy - claims that it is my romps through mud and high water > that is causing the frozen calipers on my '89 RR. I argue that it seems > kind of strange that a car designed specifically for that should die after > a brief stroll through mud. It would be next-to-impossible (or at least very expensive and with lots of compromises) to build mud-proof brakes. That's why you need to hose them down very thoroughly after any mudding. Preferably before you drive at anything resembling road speeds... though this isn't always possible. You will score your discs and seize brake cylinders otherwise. Inboard brakes (or even in-axle brakes) might be more easily protected from mud and muck, but they have their own (greater) problems. Most of all, anything that's hard for mud to get into is even harder for you to get into... so they put 'em out front where they get muddy and you can hose them down. I'd take them apart and decide what parts need replacing. Discs may be scored, you'll need to check the surface carefully and the thickness with a micrometer. You may be able to un-freeze the calipers, but I would certainly have re-built kits on hand (seals and pistons). You'll need to break them down, clean them out, and blow them dry with compressed air. Then check the bores. If the rubber seals were at all damaged, you may find the bores scored. If there was water in the brake fluid, you'll find pitting. If this is serious (can't be removed by _gentle_ honing) then you'll need to have them bored out. If _this_ cannot remove the scoring without going beyond the tolerances in the workshop manual, you'll have to replace them. I suspect this will cost quite a bit. Always spend money on brakes. It's a lot cheaper than the new chassis/higher insurance/medical bills that could result from bad brakes. I've had two pistons freeze on me while my parents look after my car in the 'states. It cost a LOT more to replace/repair them than a flush with silicone fluid would have. Big mistake not doing that before in the first place. Good luck, Charlie From Peter Kutschera Wed Jun 7 09:33:21 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 09:33:21 +0200 From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Re: 109 brake question Hello! :) QUESTION: :) How does one determine which side a front 109 brake plate goes on. :) :) The two plates are mirror images of each other. :) :) My guess is that the front brake adjuster sits near the top of the back plate :) and the rear adjuster fits fits low on the back plate. :) :) Can anyone near a 109 run out & verify this for me? I would love to put the :) back plates on tonight. Just was out there (I'ts not longer raining). Yes, the adjuster on the front side is higher then the other. Happy screwing Peter Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter :) From dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Wed Jun 7 13:12:08 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 13:12:08 +0200 From: dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Subject: Re: Stereos in SIIs >If one were insane enough to want an audio system of some sort in >a Series IIa, where's the best place to put it? I just finished installing a stereo in my LR 90, and I have to say that I am quite pleased with the result. I installed both the radio and the speakers in the cubby box between the driver and passenger seats. For those who don't know, a cubby box is a massive wooden box covered in vinyl or cloth that fits in the place between the seats that would have been occupied by the middle seat. These cubby boxes are offered as options from Land Rover, or you can buy OEM equivalents (check the adverts in LROI mag.) The cubby box comes with a hinged lid that is lockable. My radio is of the old removeable type, so I just slide it out of its chassis and lock it in the box to get it out of sight. The radio has been mounted vertically in the open tray at the front top of the box for good access to the controls. This would perhaps not work too well with a CD player, as I believe that they have to be mounted more horizontally. The speakers are mounted on the sides. An added bonus is that the cubby box serves as a booster for the bass frequencies. You can really hear the difference when you open and close the lid! -David 1989 LR 90 Turbodiesel From Sanna@aol.com Wed Jun 7 07:16:14 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 07:16:14 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Steering gear box RR power stearing pumps are notorius leakers, and are non-rebuildable. I replaced mine at 56,000. It could be your box, but I'd bet that it's your pump. From Alan Richer 7 95 Jun EDT 1909 Date: 7 Jun 95 9:02:51 EDT From: Alan Richer Subject: Engine rebuilds: Any gotchas? Alas, I am in the throes of the engine rebuild dilemma.... I am about to start reassembling a 2.25L petrol engine that was part of the purchse of my Series IIa 109. It was already disassembled when I got it (shudder), but was supposedly from a vehicle with less than 40K miles on it (a military that died of terminal chassis rot). COnsidering the block is COMPLETELY empty (even the camshaft is out), are there any things I should do to ensure myself a long-lasting engine? Also, are there any particular "gotchas" (pitfalls for the UK types..) that I should watch out for while doing this? It's been a while since I rebuilt my last Chevy.... Yours, Alan From dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Wed Jun 7 16:29:30 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 16:29:30 +0200 From: dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Subject: Basic Wheels for LR 90 I know the subject of wheel compatibility has come up before, but here it goes... Does anybody know if the steel wheels that modern Land Rovers (i.e. 90/110/130) wear are the same as the ones that have been fitted to Series II/III vehicles of the past? I am referring to the basic utilitarian wheels here, not the steel Range Rover types, which are the ones that my Land Rover 90 TD comes with. I am thinking of picking up a second set of wheels from an ex-Belgian Army Series III wreck being sold for parts. Thanks, -David 1989 Land Rover 90 TD From lenagham@bachman.com Wed Jun 07 10:30:21 1995 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 95 10:30:21 EST From: lenagham@bachman.com Subject: Re: Temp sending units There are 3 water temp sensors on the RR. 1. senses water temp and sends signal to the computer. It is one of the few sensors that causes the EFI light on the instrument panel to illuminate if the ECU detects a problem with it. 2. there is a sensor which is used to as part of the circuit for the temp gauge, it only has a single wire going to it. This is the one to replace if your temp gauge is giving erratic readings. 3. There is also a sensor in the thermostat housing which I think is used to switch on the auxiliary electric fans (which are always on when the A/C is running) in the event that the coolant exceeds a given temp. When the temp gauge on my RR started reading way in the red and neither of the other 2 sensors caused either the EFI light or fans to come on then I was pretty sure I wasn't overheating! Mike Lenaghan 87 RR From BobandSueB@aol.com Wed Jun 7 11:28:03 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 11:28:03 -0400 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Hot in here /Heater valve SII Chris said, >With no heater shut-off valve in the IIA it's hot in here. I bought a SRIII >shut-off valve from RN to install. Anyone had any experience doing this? >Guy at RN said that the pull knob will work backwards. True? >Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIA 88" SW My Experience with the heater valve was because I didnt like the late 2A (69) valve on top of the thermostat. and special hose(1/2 to 5/8) hard to get. So I went to local auto parts and bought a control valve for a few dollars. It's 5/8 straight through/ cable controlled and mounts anywhere you want it in the hose. Its been a while but I think it was Stant H-504 or something close.I think it's originally for a Ford P/U. The parts counter person can find it easily in the book. regards. Bob Bernard From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Wed Jun 7 09:00 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 95 09:00 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Sighting and misc I recently went on a mountain bike trip travelling from Flagstaff, AZ, to the Grand Canyon. One of the organizers of the trip was a fellow Series III owner. When he bought his, it had a Subaru turbocharger on it. He said it went well, but the head couldn't take it. When it blew, he got a new head and threw the turbo away. I also chanced upon a 1980 Stage One here in Flagstaff. I was curious as to how he got it into the country. He said he brought it back from Saudi Arabia after Desert Storm. I didn't ask any other questions, but I have visions of clandestine C130 payloads going through my head. I have also seen a Range Rover SE around a couple of times. I have been taking my Land Rover off road as much as possible recently. I often camp near work on weeknights, since the weather has been so nice. One of the benefits of working in the National Forest. I accidently ordered the wrong distributor cap, so if anyone is passing through and needs a later type Lucas flat top, let me know. James From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Wed Jun 7 09:43:01 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 09:43:01 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII > So I went to local auto parts and bought a control valve for a few dollars. > It's 5/8 straight through/ cable controlled and mounts anywhere you want it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > in the hose. > Bob Bernard Mine is like that, only *not* cable controled. You open the hood and turn CCW in Nov. and Turn CW in March. No holes to drill. R, bg From Sanna@aol.com Wed Jun 7 12:53:35 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 12:53:35 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII I didn't care much for the '70 IIa valve either. Since heat in the Rover was an all or nothing need, I just pulled the cable controlled valve altogether and just ran the hose diectly from the engine to the heater core. Years later I spliced a regular brass valve from the hardware store into the line so I could shut it off in the summer. From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jun 7 10:04:40 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 95 10:04:40 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Frozen brake calipers Doesn't seem right to me about the mud and high water; are you sure it's the calipers and not the master cylinder, vacuum boost, etc?? Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jun 7 10:12:13 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 95 10:12:13 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Steering gear box Yes I've had the same problem twice. The leak is probably from the input shaft seal on the steering box, or less likely the output shaft seal. The first time it happened to me about 3 years ago I had it fixed by the dealer who rebuilt the box. However it started leaking again after a couple of years. I've since talked to RR dealer mechanics about it etc; from what I can make out the input shaft tends to wear and replacing the seals is only a temporary fix. Land Rover recommend replacing the whole box, but that costs about $1k or so just for parts so I have been putting it off. One RR mechanic recommended living with it until it started using copious amounts of fluid (note it's ATF, not power steering fluid) unless you are feeling rich! You can get a set of seals for it from Atlantic British for about $85 if you want to have a go at it. Let me know how you get on! Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR Mill Valley, Ca From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jun 7 10:17:56 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 95 10:17:56 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Transfer Case Just a thought -- I wonder if you can poke around inside through the drain or filler plug to see if the chain is really loose?? Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jun 7 10:21:01 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 95 10:21:01 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Temp sending units Yes there are 2 temp sending units. The one driving the gauge is called the sending unit, and the other one is the coolant temperature sensor (thermistor) which provides input to the ECU. So the computer does not see the same erroneous reading as the gauge. John 89 RR From Charlie Wright Wed Jun 7 20:56:02 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 20:56:02 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Frozen brake calipers On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, John Brabyn wrote: > Doesn't seem right to me about the mud and high water; are you sure it's the > calipers and not the master cylinder, vacuum boost, etc?? John's got a point there, although I agree that mud/water would damage brakes, I doubt both front calipers would sieze together... I'd check other things (common things) first. Nevertheless, look after those brakes and they'll look after you (at least a little more reliably). Cheers, Charlie From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Jun 7 16:03:34 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 16:03:34 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Camel Trophy Daily Log Monday, June 6th - Monday's little exercise was supposed to be a "warm-up" for the final set of special tasks, now underway. After almost two weeks behind the wheel of their Discoveries, the organizers figured the teams needed a little something to get the blood flowing again - literally. The "water wheel" event was designed to be a short, sharp shock just before the final special tasks on Wednesday and Thursday. Each team was given two 'Pelican' waterproof cases, a length of sand ladder and a spare tire. The object was to paddle/swim/drag/haul the package 300 meters up the Rio Mopan and then tote it to the top of a small hill. This test of stamina and spirit was just too much for some teams, a jagged rocks lined the route. The Italians didn't even notice that they had taken a wrong turn until it was too late. One of the Swiss competetors, Christian Gremaud, tripped in the river and gashed himself badly on the edge of the sand ladder. He needed at least twelve stitches and imobilization of his leg; the Swiss team may be forced to withdraw from competition. France passed the UK team, stuck in the fast water, but were unable to capitalize on their lead. Gerard Champoiral's legs turned to jelly on the final hill and the South African team of Marc Pincente and Paul Leslie-Smith clawed their way past the French on the final hill. The stage is now set for the final set of special tasks to be held at Xunantunich Wednesday and Thursday. Stay tuned! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Wed Jun 7 16:30:15 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 16:30:15 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: multiple messages... uh, i was just wondering if possibly message sent at the same time to the same place could be compressed into one mail message. My mailer and my SysAdmin are beginning to scream at me because I am getting much mail per day and am only able to check once a day... just a thought, no hard feelings. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth, thnx, and happy roverin;} steve & da moose '73 III Moose (under construction) From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Jun 07 15:37:20 1995 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 95 15:37:20 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Ever put 34-9.50-15 tires on a Land Rover? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Ever put 34-9.50-15 tires on a Land Rover? Hello all, I need tires on a '71 IIa 88, and am looking at using either BFG 33x9.50x15 MT or Super Swamper 34x9.50x15. Has anyone ever installed the "34's" (Super swamper)? Will the 9.50's fit on standard Rover rims? Anyone know of any sources for LR wheels? They're a "5 on 6.5 inch" rim size, and nobody that I have called yet has anything in this size. I am in the US, but may have to order them from the UK if not available on this side of the pond. Thanks a lot for your help! BTW, my steering track rod should arrive today, then I can drive her again! I ended up getting it from Rovers North at around $85. (Ludicrous compared to UK price, but when ya need it....) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Jun 07 15:47:31 1995 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 95 15:47:31 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Serial # placard for 109's. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Serial # placard for 109's. British pacific has located a sample serial number placard for a IIa 109, and should have them back from the printers soon. This should help with the registration of mine since it is missing, and the frame serial number can't be read. Any suggestions on how to stamp in the serial #, or where to have it done? Then, to make it look 25 years old.... Hmmmmm..... Thanks, #=====# #========# -------,___ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (for sale $30,000) (Too hard to "draw") #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Craig Murray Thu Jun 8 8:49:35 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 8:49:35 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Basic Wheels for LR 90 David writes: > Does anybody know if the steel wheels that modern Land Rovers (i.e. > 90/110/130) wear are the same as the ones that have been fitted to Series > II/III vehicles of the past? The rims fitted to the coil sprung Land Rovers have a wider off set, but you can get a set of Series rims and have the middle turned around to give you a very large off set. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From Spenny@aol.com Wed Jun 7 21:31:26 1995 Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 21:31:26 -0400 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Hot in here /Heater valve SII Bill Wrote: Mine is like that, only *not* cable controled. You open the hood and turn *the valve* CCW in Nov. and Turn CW in March. No holes to drill. How does this work? Doesnt the valve stop the circulation of the heating system? I dont understand? spenny From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Jun 07 20:39:26 1995 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 20:39:26 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII Spencer KC Norcross writes: >> Mine is like that, only *not* cable controled. You open the hood and turn *the valve* CCW in Nov. and Turn CW in March. No holes to drill. >How does this work? Doesnt the valve stop the circulation of the heating system? I dont understand? Exactly! He stops the diversion or circulation of the coolant to the heating system in the summer (Turn Clock-Wise in March), and turns it on again for the winter (Counter-Clock Wise in Nov.). It's a seasonal thing, the heater is on ALL winter, and off ALL summer, get it? -Michael cs@crl.com From johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Thu Jun 8 04:51:43 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 04:51:43 GMT From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Subject: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? Whilst rotating tires, I noticed that my Sr IIA 109 has about 1/2" of play in-and-out at the top of the front tires with the front end jacked up and the brakes applied. I wonder if this suggests replacement of the swivel pin bushes? If so, does anyone have suggestions for what else I should renew as long as I have the swivel pin assembly apart, and does anyone have experience with how long the job takes and/or any particularly tricky/exasperatiFrom "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jun EDT 1903 Date: 08 Jun 95 03:52:26 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Tyres for a 109 > the tread? ...er, yes. Not myself, actually, but a friend in a 110 hardtop w/ Rangemaster lookalike remoulds, in Libya. Ok, it was *hot*, and the car was loaded... the rear right tyre simply exploded, was blown clean off the rim - the rim was also ruined in the incident, plus minor damage to the wheelarch. Never used remoulds myself, and not likely to... Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jun EDT 1903 Date: 08 Jun 95 03:54:56 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Frozen brake calipers >This friend - Andy - claims that it is my romps through mud and high water >that is causing the frozen calipers on my '89 RR. I argue that it seems >kind of strange that a car designed specifically for that should die after I'm afraid I must confirm that, leaving mud & gravel caked around the calipers after mud bogging can and will, eventually, cause the calipers to freeze - had a hair-raising experience to this effect myself not long ago (was posted on the digest) where the brake pads where literally burnt out and the brake disc was glowing. It's strongly advisable to clean the calipers very thoroughly after playing in the mud, to the extent of taking off each wheel individually and going over them with a power washer. Something else can cause caliper-freeze: The internal push rod of the servo brake which transmits the vacuum-assisted brake action from the vacuum unit into the master brake cylinder can 'hang' or seize, temporarily, in the rubber gromet/seal through which it passes. As a consequence the rod doesn't recede completely, the vacuum isn't released, and you continue having braking action on the master cyl. even after having released the brake pedal. The remedy is simple (no need to drain the brake system): Loosen the master cylinder from the servo unit (taking care not to break any brake pipes!), pull it back from the unit and carefully pull out the protuding rod (don't drop it into the servo unit :-O ). Remove the rubber&plastic gromet/seal (it's an assembly of rubber seal, plastic shim and metal retaining plate - take note of how it is assembled), clean everything, and apply Girling paste (this blue slimy gook) liberally - don't use grease or oil !! If you find the rod to be corroded or the rubber seal torn or chaffed, replace them. Reassemble, and preferably apply some sealing compound thinly to the master cylinder flange prior to bolting it to the servo unit to prevent further ingress of water/dust/oil - this is the main cause in the first place for the deterioration of the rod/seal. Finally, there is an overhaul set for the calipers; I'm not sure though whether it also contains new pistons, you might have to get those seperately if they look suspicious. This would be *much* cheaper than getting new calipers. Needless to say, working on the brakes of such a fast and heavy vehicle is a touchy job - leave it to a workshop unless you know exactly what you're doing... Stefan From Mike Rooth Thu Jun 8 9:21:07 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 9:21:07 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? John, Its not a job you want to do if it can be avoided! With the amount of play you mention,it doesnt sound too bad,and probably only needs adjustment,ie the removal of a shim or two under the top swivel pin. Other folks may disagree,but the way I do it is to jack the thing up,remove the wheel,sit on an upturned bucket and play with the shim pack,removing/ replacing,until there is *just* and only *just* the suggestion of movement.Too tight,and you've got heavy steering,too loose and you're back where you started. Backwoods engineering it may be,but work it does,and it saves all the aggro of bashing out the track rod ends and fiddling with a spring balance to get the resistance theoretically right. Personally,I *would* fit gaiters if my swivel balls didnt resemble the surface of the moon,and fill 'em with grease,too,but the ones I've seen over here dont require the removal of the axle end to fit. Cheers Mike Rooth From Spenny@aol.com Thu Jun 8 06:48:11 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 06:48:11 -0400 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII cs@crl.com wrote: Exactly! He stops the diversion or circulation of the coolant to the heating system in the summer (Turn Clock-Wise in March), I understand that part, (i'm not tailor, you know ) what i dont understand is doesn't that stop the circulation of coolant throught the engine? or does the engine have a complete coolant circuit of its own? spenny From dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Thu Jun 8 13:15:26 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 13:15:26 +0200 From: dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Subject: Re: Some Engine Questions >-Can somebody tell me anything about the TD (not the TDi) engine? >This seems to have been fitted to earlier Defenders before the TDi >came. Since yet I coudn't get any information about this. The 90 Diesel Turbo engine (the official factory name) was fitted to the coil-sprung Land Rovers starting from 1986 (?) and was basically a derivative of the normally aspirated 2.5 diesel, which was basically a derivative of the old 2.25 diesel, which was basically a derivative of the 2.0 diesel from the original Series I! In order to accomodate the turbo, the engine block was modified for increased oil flow to handle the higher temperatures caused by the turbo, and completely new pistons/rings were developed. The turbo is a Garrett T2. The engine produces 85 horsepower, which makes it a bit better on the road, although it just as noisy as usual. I have 1989 90 with the Turbo Diesel (I prefer to call it that) and it suits my style of driving. I can cruise on the motorway at 100-110 km/h with plenty of power in reserve for overtaking trucks and such. If you go faster than that that, the engine noise gets unbearable, and the fuel consumption goes up. I am currently using 10-11 L/100 km with my style of driving. Land Rover stopped producing this engine in 1990, and came out with the TDi engine in 1991, which is when the name Defender was also added to the vehicles. The previous models were known simply as Land Rover 90, 110, and 127. The TDi is not a derivative of the Diesel Turbo, but rather a totally new engine that was originally developed for the Discovery. -David 1989 Land Rover 90 TD From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jun EDT 1909 Date: 08 Jun 95 09:25:14 EDT From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Hot in here /Heater valve SII I installed the whole heater in my IIa last fall. The tap is easy to install -- just remove the bolt at the back of the block and screw it down on a crush washer. If there is a fitting there already (ie a thermostatically controlled valve) you could probably install the tap at the front of th engine (thread is the same) and achieve the same thing by cutting off the flow of water through the heater. Cheers, R. P. Reid From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jun EDT 1909 Date: 08 Jun 95 09:25:13 EDT From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Engine rebuilds: Any gotchas? Alan: Some things to do... Take the engine to a machine shop (NAPA does this if you are in the U.S.) and have the engine hot tanked to remove all the old paint and *clean out the oil and coolant passages!* A colleague of mine rebuilt his Bentley Mk VI engine a few years ago only to find passages blocked by mice nests. Seized the rear 2 cylinders. Damn expensive on a Bentley. Paint the engine block when it's all clean. Cummins Diesel green is a really close match to the original LR green. Paint the inside of the timing chain case as well, but degrease it well first, so no paint chips come off later in life. If you can afford it or really want to have a new engine... have it bored over. Probably it has never been bored, so have it bored .010 over. Whether you have it rebored or not, hone the cylinders and always use new rings. Use lots (really lots) of grease and oil during the reassembly. Plastigauge works great when setting the bearings. Feel free to contact me as you get into it... I have rebuilt several 2.25's and talked a couple of people through steps on the phone. Cheers, R. P. Reid From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Thu Jun 8 09:55:32 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:55:32 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: digest etc. Thank you to all who replied regarding the mailing problem. I was on the digest for a brief while, and I did not enjoy it at all because I could not save specific messages into my folder. The point I was trying to make is that 7 sequential messages could just as easily be put in one slightly longer message before being mailed to the list. That's all..... BTW, Does anyone have the soft top frame(only) to cover just the cab? Would you like to part with it? Thnx steve & da Moose 73 III 88 "Moose" (under construction) From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Jun 8 07:38:14 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 07:38:14 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: 9.50s on LR 15" rims David Brown asks: "Ever put 34-9.50-15 tires on a Land Rover?" >Hello all, I need tires on a '71 IIa 88, and am looking at using either >BFG 33x9.50x15 MT or Super Swamper 34x9.50x15. >Has anyone ever installed the "34's" (Super swamper)? I'm currently running Super Swampers TSLs on my '73 88 but they are 29x8.50x15s and they are remarkable in mud. I was recently out on a muddy Land-Rover run where most of the other Land-Rovers were slipping and sliding around. Mine acted like it was on pavement--no drama. I just wish they were taller (they were on this Land-Rover when I got it; I would have bought taller ones). Kinda rough riding on the road. Noisy too but not that bad; not nearly as noisy as SATs (which I've also run and like the Super Swampers better). >Will the 9.50's fit on standard Rover rims? Yes, one of my other Land-Rovers has 30x9.50R15s on it and they fit fine. As to the tall ones, they will work too. I've never seen the 34x9.50 Super Swampers on a Land-Rover but have seen two or three sets of the 33.9.50 BFG MTs on Land-Rovers and talked to one of the owners (Seattle, WA) and he was very happy with them. My ideal would be to get the 34x9.50 Super Swampers in radial or better yet (maybe) 7.50x16 Super Swampers in Radial. No such so far but I have noticed that there is a gradually increasing selection of radial sizes in the Super Swamper (including 33x10.50R15). >Anyone know of any sources for LR wheels? They're a "5 on 6.5 inch" rim >size, and nobody that I have called yet has anything in this size. I am >in the US, but may have to order them from the UK if not available on >this side of the pond. No, the LR wheels are available in the U.S. If you are talking about the 15" wheels, they are 6.0" wide. The 16s are available in 5" (for 88s and 6.00x16 or 6.50x16 tires) and 5.5" (for 109s and 7.50x16 tires) from most any of the LR parts houses (RN, AB, BP, and DAP) but also in 6.5x16 (from LR dealers and RN). The 6.5" were used on the US model D110 and are also used on D130s. Cost over $100 each from RN (I forgot the exact price). There are also steel wheels available for the D90 and some actually do come with them. These are the same as used on the Disco as standard in England (or at least used to be), have five small oval slots, and are (I believe) 7" wide. Some dealers have been taking off these wheels on D90s that come in with them to put on alloys, then sell off the steel take-offs as used. One in the SF Bay Area was selling them for $85 each. From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Jun 08 07:53:28 1995 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 95 07:53:28 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Re: Ever put 34-9.50-15 tires on a Land Rover? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Re: Ever put 34-9.50-15 tires on a Land Rover? >>Hello all, I need tires on a '71 IIa 88, and am looking at using >>either BFG 33x9.50x15 MT or Super Swamper 34x9.50x15. >>Has anyone ever installed the "34's" (Super swamper)? >I've seen a Sr II 88 with 33" tires. It has one-ton spring shackles (to >lift the body a little) and the front fenders were still cut out to >accomodate the tires. Shudder! You might check with the owner to see >about his experiences. He is Lawrence, Manager of British Pacific in >Burbank, CA. (a very nice L-R parts outlet.) THANK YOU JOHN!!! I've been in contact with Lawrence in regards to the placard for the 109, and have just received several other parts that I ordered from them. Seems like a really nice person from the phone contact that I've had... I'll definitely call him (800 number ;) ) after 10:00 when he gets in. Maybe a 1-2" lift would be required? Don't really want to chop it all up. It's already dinged up, no major dents, just one series of ripples and dimples over the entire vehicle! ;) (PO had used it for a tree trimming service, and screwed on steel plates to all 3 doors so he could attach the magnetic signs he used! Sheesh! Some people's kids!!!) And even though it's just going to be a "desert trasher" (while treading lightly) I still want it to retain the LR charm in appearance. After all... It *is* a Land-Rover, and therefore has Dignity! As for white-spoke wheels, Only ones I've been able to locate are from "Famous Four" in the UK at 33.49L (Pounds) each. (Approx $52.50 US) for 8x15's. This price includes VAT which would likely be deducted, but does not include shipping to the US. Has anyone had experience ordering from these people? (Or any others in the UK??) Well, I've rambled on long enough... Thanks for the "ear"! Dave (envious of the supply of parts in the UK) Brown, #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Jun 8 08:53:33 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 08:53:33 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII > Bill Wrote: > Mine is like that, only *not* cable controled. You open the hood and turn [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Doesnt the valve stop the circulation of the heating system? > I dont understand? Any auto parts store will sell you a valve that you can insert into the 5/8" rubber heater hose. Just cut the hose at any convienent spot, slide the hose over the valve, hose clamp, done. It just stops the hot water from circulating through the heater core. The heater is part of the by-pass circuit, so, the engine temperture is not affected. You just must open the bonnet to turn the water to the heater on or off. My Kodiac has a three speed fan and a flap on the external air intake, with which to control air through the heater, so a water volume control is unimportant for fine tuning the internal air temp. It's open in winter and closed in summer. R, bg From Alan Richer 8 95 Jun EDT 1911 Date: 8 Jun 95 11:46:48 EDT From: Alan Richer Subject: Radials on a Rover? How BIG? I've seen a lot of posts come and go recently (past few months) on the eternal question of tires. I'm not going to reopen the debate about tube vs. tubeless or any of that other deep thought, but one thing I've gotten conflicting messages on is the actual factor of tire size. Churchill is at present shod in a disgusting set of 7.50 x 16 bias-ply junk tires. Can you say tire roar over 10MPH? Knew you could... What I was told by DAP was to avoid anything over a 205 75 R 16 tire with a 109 with overdrive as it puts too much of a strain on the Fairey. However, i hear of several folks (including Churchill's PO - he stuck me with the junk tires and kept the good ones) running 235 75 R16s with no problem. Who's right? Let me address one caveat: These tires are going to end up being aggressive street tires - I will not be doing much off-road, at least not for the next year or so. I have a spare set of 16" wheels, and those may later get a good set of off-roads as finances permit. Expiring minds want to know, Yours, Alan From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Jun 08 12:18:54 1995 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 1995 12:18:54 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: V-8 Auto 88 For Sale A friend asked me to post this: --------------------------------------- 1964 88 w/NOS 215 V-8 Auto on new heavy duty frame. Completely rebuilt. Fresh paint, new exhaust, full 4WD & hubs. Was building as my serious off road toy but switched to a coil sprung chassis. Drive away as is for $7500. finished $10,000. Also has 3 "Super built" versions of the Buick-Olds (Rover) alumium V-8. 215 - $1500 245 - $2500 266 - $3500 Contact John Deneke in Glen Rock, NJ USA Ph: 201-445-0361 Also, he is looking to buy rear 5" sills for a 109 PU measuring 26 3/4" at the top. --------------------------------------------- >From what I can see of the "as is" condition - The radiator has been relocated further forward and a cosmetic grill needs to be fabricated (with a new hood I think), I think it needs the interior done, but all panels were painted off the vehicle, and the top needs to be put on. Have fun. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From BobandSueB@aol.com Thu Jun 8 12:16:24 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 12:16:24 -0400 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: re hot in here/ heater valve >> So I went to local auto parts and bought a control valve for a few dollars. >> It's 5/8 straight through/ cable controlled and mounts anywhere you want it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >> in the hose. >> Bob Bernard > Mine is like that, only *not* cable controled. You open the hood and turn >CCW in Nov. and Turn CW in March. No holes to drill. R, bg I didn't have to drill holes, the cable was already there from the stoopid factory control valve. Also the cable in mine doesn't go backwards at all, pull out and it heats, push in and its off. By having the cable control inside, I can turn down the heat when we don't need as much. Bob From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Jun 8 09:17:47 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 09:17:47 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? > Its not a job you want to do if it can be avoided! > With the amount of play you mention,it doesnt sound [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Cheers > Mike Rooth Huh? I deleted but wasn't it 1/2" of play at the top of the tire? Sounds like a case for not driving it again until it's fixed. Like real dangerous. R, bg From Carrob1@aol.com Thu Jun 8 12:29:48 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 12:29:48 -0400 From: Carrob1@aol.com Subject: Re: #2(2) The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Ken, >From firsthand experience (hauling vehicles) I can tell you that Land Rover does not use frame holes for transportation purposes, and expressly instructs carriers to use the exitsting tiedown rings bolted to the frame. If the vehicle was ever winched or towed by a local towing service, I'll betcha that's where the damage came from. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Jun 8 09:57:26 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 09:57:26 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? In message <199506080451.XAA15457@butler.uk.stratus.com> John Y. Liu writes: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Whilst rotating tires, I noticed that my Sr IIA 109 has about 1/2" of play [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > anyone have favorable or unfavorable comments about the idea of adding > gaiters while I am at it? > Thanks. My condolences. I have just put my rebuilt swivel assemblies back on the car. The factory manual is poor about the process so the haynes manual will probably be worse. I ended up having Scotty rebuild the swivel pins for me (chicken way out but I know it was done right). Purchase a pin rebuild kit. It comes with everything you need for a swivel pin rebuild and costs a LOT less than purchasing the parts individually. Tricky? the new pins may not proberly fit the new Raco bush and might need to be lapped in, but you don't eant it too lose. The raco bush can be a pain to install & if you bugger it up you will need to get a new one. If there are ANY shims on the underside pin. carefully do not lose them & put them back on the underside. This would have been the factory alining the opening of the housing with the swivel ball. You will need to make a few trial arremblies with different shim packs to get the correct draw on the scale (You will need to purchase a pull spring scale, 0-20 pounds is about right). You want to keep the swivel and housing matched and be careful you don't accidently put the bushiing & bearing on the wrong ends when reassembling There is a top and a bottom to the swivels. Don't forget pitted balls make for oil leaks. manual documentation on the 109's front brakes are the pits. Make a drawing of the connections on the back side of the back plate if you decide to do the brakes too. The front brake adjuster on each of the mirrored back plates sits above the center of the axle. The cross brake line goes to the front. The bleeded is on the bottom along the same axis as the axle, the rubber hose goes to the slanted opening on the top wheel cylinder. You can use a smaal diameter cutter on a high speed tool to make the scallaps on the brake asduster a little deeper. Its way easier than replacing the whole subassembly if yours are worn. Axle breathers can be easily cleaned. the top pin is held in by friction. You can take a pair of pliers, pull off the top pin, remove the bell shaped housing and get at the ball (don't lose it). A quik slosh in solvent and you reassemble it. Before deciding to go with the newer raised breathers I was thinking of threading the upper part of the breather and replacing the pin with a screw to facilitate quick cleaning of the breather. The fun part is that many of the bolts are wentworth. If you need to remove the svivel balls, a 15 mm open wrench is close enough in size that it can be hammered on to the bolts holding the ball to the axle. I replaced them with new grade 8 SAE fine bolts. You might want to pick up a special wrench that is almost like a box wrench but has a narrow opening for a steel hydrolic line, Yours will probably be tight and you do not want to bugger up the connectors. If you do decide to replace a steel brake line you can ether purchase a complete one from one of the LR mail houses or purchase new ends from Rovers North and have a local shop make them up. I opted for this since I have gone to duel power brakes on the 109. You should be able to find the wrench at your local auto parts store. The hydrolic lines can ba a pain to get back on, It usually is easier if you run the male ends through a die. Also if you have the flex hydrolic lines off, you might consider new copper washers and a new nut & lock washer at the other side. Scotty is currently dead set against gaiters. They retain moisture even though the slit is facing down. Almost every swivel he as rebuilt from a car with gaiters were pitted and needed new balls. He says that they make more sense in a LR that lives in the desert that almost never sees moisture. He also says the best way to treat the balls is to wash them off after a run. What else should your renew while at it? Haw! As a long time sufferer of shipfitters disease here is what I am doing: 1. new front wheel bearings & seals (mine were getting tired). 2. raised axle breathers ( my front one has stripped threads) 3. replaced front axle oil 4. New wheel brake cylinders all the way around 5. New brake shoes in front 6. repainted front brake back plates 7. new rubber brake hoses all the way around 8. New steel brake lines throughout the car (I have already had pin hole rust throughs and the front right line looked to be in poor condition 9. Since Hammertone takes 6 weeks to fully cure and I expect to spend a couple of weeks in Europe on business before the job was done, I took the oppertunity to put new silver hamertone paint on the air cleaner, valve cover breather and oil filler breather. 10. I disconnected the lower ends of the front shocks and replaced badly worn lower mounting bushings. The inner hole was greatly enlarged. I also varified that the front shocks were in good condition. 11. replaced 'O' rings in the locking hubs. Of course, since you will need to disconnect the front tierod ends connecting the drop arms, you will want to check their condition and renew them as necessary Doing swivel pin rebuild can lead to all kinds of fun :^( after the job is completed that is. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From ScottFugate_Group4t@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Thu Jun 8 13:00:41 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 13:00:41 EDT From: ScottFugate_Group4t@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Subject: 89 RR Gremlins Gang, I have enjoyed the recent thread concerning various problems with '89 RRs. Never liking to be left out, I thought I would chime in with one of my own... The problem is my tachometer and fuel gauge work intermittently. The failures are always simultaneous. The non-functioning periods are solely dependent on the temperature inside the vehicle. After the thing is parked and the ambient temp reaches 80 degrees F or so (every afternoon from May to October in Tennessee), the needles just lay there. After I run the AC for 20 minutes or so and get things good and cooled off, boing!, needles shoot into the proper positions and everything's fine. Things are great on the way into work in the morning, but I am never sure how much gas I have until I get almost home in the evening. My Haynes Manual wiring diagram shows that the instruments have in common the "multi purpose device" or something like that. Sounds like some diode or chip or something in there would prefer a cooler climate. I am decidedly electronically challenged. Is there any way to troubleshoot and repair this device? Where is it located? What does it look like? I am loathe to just chuck the thing and replace it without a fight. As with any "black box", I am sure it is very expensive. Anybody happen to know how much? (UK and US) Could there be another explanation for the cause of this malady? (bad connection or something?) Ah, the delight of owning a luxury automobile! Thanks in advance! Scott Fugate Knoxville, TN 70 IIA 88 615-523-5136 (h) 89 RR 615-435-3193 (o) 615-435-3193 (f) From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Jun 8 10:20:41 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 10:20:41 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Radials on a Rover? How BIG? Alan, If I ever stop spending money on such things a swivel pin rebuild and replacing all the brake lines I'll be purchasing a set of new tyres to put on my new 16 inch rims, to replace my bent white 15X7 spokers that replaced the stock narrow 16 inch wheels on my 109. I told the tyre people I wanted BF Goodrich mud terrains the same height and width as my current 15 inch tyres. I was very impressed at how the mud terrains worked on spot, a local D90. After some measuring the tyre person produced a 245/75-16 tyre and compaired it with my current tyres. Same height & width as the old ones. So I'm not versed on what the sizes mean but the size I currently have on (and will want to sell as they have most of their thread left) fit well on a 109. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Jun 8 10:31:05 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 10:31:05 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? In message <199506081618.LAA16002@butler.uk.stratus.com> William L. Grouell writes: > Huh? I deleted but wasn't it 1/2" of play at the top of the tire? Sounds > like a case for not driving it again until it's fixed. Like real dangerous. Mine had about 1/2 inch freeplay on the left side when I decided to go ahead with the rebuild. I had been putting it off for years & staying away from long off road runs because of the wear. On mine the upper pins were well worn, the ralco bushings were somewhat elongated. The lower bearing races had indintations where the rollers from the bearings punded into them. The inside of the lower bearings were leaving a brass shine on the lower pins where they were wearing together. But I agree it is nice to have it done or have the help of someone who as done it correctly before. You should disconnect the tie rods from the axle steering arms and use a spring to set up the shims TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Jun 8 11:27:07 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 11:27:07 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: 89 RR Gremlins Scott -- yes it is good to see a bit of RR technical traffic on the old list. Regarding your tach and gauge problem, the two things indeed share the "multifunction unit", which is indeed located INSIDE the car -- on the back of the instrument binnacle. I recently removed mine to see what was going on with a similar weird problem I'm having with the charge light coming on and the tach not working. The multifunction unit, among other things, provides a regulated voltage to the tach and gauges. It can be got at by removing the plastic cover from the instrument binnacle (lift the front-facing edge and pull the cover forward toward the front of the vehicle). The multifunction unit is on the left hand side at the top, held on with 2 screws that can at a pinch be removed without taking anything else apart (the official method is to remove the whole instrument binnacle from the dash, but I got mine off without that). The unit is a little circuit board shrouded by a metal cover. The voltage regulator chip would be easy to replace (only 3 legs) but that might not be the problem if your temp gauge is working normally. You could try at first just cleaning the connections on the edge of the circuit board; after that some pondering of the circuitry would unfortunately be required to find the cause. The factory manual doesn't give a proper circuit diagram for this unit diagram for the unit, and I don't know how much a new one is. Hope this is some help Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From Andrew Grafton Thu Jun 8 16:35:01 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 16:35:01 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Piston rings on 2286 diesels I can cope with engines going wrong and making them right again, but I *really* hate it when opinions clash. So here I am asking for more opinions or specific experience... Engine in question is a 2286 diesel 5 bearing, an early one (no. 459 of the 5 bearing series). It suffered ring failure and has a badly scored bore so it is now being rebored 40 thou oversize prior to fitting o/size pistons.. In the past the engine has had a complete new set of pistons once and one new (odd) one fitted since. The pistons are all of the ZAB/L dimensions and bores mike up indicating no previous reboring. Head is in mint condition despite passing 2" of ring thro' the no.4 exhaust valve. Question is : There is a groove around the skirt of the pistons (at the bottom), into which a bottom scraper / oil control ring would fit perfectly. Should we or should we not fit a ring in it? The reason why I wonder is that one of the old pistons doesn't have one, but the other 3 do. I made enquiries and currently have 2 votes for "fit it" and 2 votes for "leave it off". The best reason I've had so far is that the manual mentioned below shows no ring fitted. Information so far (that I know for certain) - the Series IIA manuals show no ring fitted to this groove, just the groove. Our 5 bearing engine is somewhat different to that 3 bearing engine, but does this mean I should fit the rings or not? I have no accurate cross-sectional drawings for the 5-bearing. The new pistons come with a scraper-type ring fitted there. Any advice welcomed. Also, if anyone knows what the groove is for if it isn't a ring groove, let me know! Is this where the mythical 'oil control rings' fit [I thought they were a set of slightly o'size rings...]? Bye for now, waiting with baited breath, Andy From "Bryan Costales" Thu Jun 8 11:55:23 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 11:55:23 -0700 From: "Bryan Costales" Subject: FS: Land Rover 1974 Series III, 88" in Berkeley, CA Yes, my car is up for sale once again. Here is the information: For Sale: 1973 Series III Land Rover 88" wheel base, 3 door, red body with white top Presently located in Berkeley, California. Status: Lubed and tuned, runs well. Features: Full size, galvanized rack w/stainless steel hardware. 2-barrel Weber carbruator with cable linkage. Stainless steel exhaust (with standard header). Spin-on oil filter adapter. Fully converted to synthetic oil (sump, gears and diff). 70 alternator, and electronic ignition. CB, cassette deck, AM/FM radio, and remote burglar alarm. Stellite valves so it will run on unleaded. Superwinch overdrive. Very good 6/4 15" tires. IIA grill provides 4 headlamps (all work). Sound proof foam under hood an floor mats (runs quieter). Floor mats in front, "wrap around" carpeting in back. Built-in, lockable boxes provide vast internal storage. Shop manual, and lots of spare parts (axels, gaskets, etc). History: I am the second owner. I still have all the maintanance papers and documents from the original owner. The head was recently rebuilt. Has good compression and oil pressure. Why: I am selling because I bought a new Land Rover Discovery. How Much: $7,500 is the current asking price. Make an offer! You may contact me via: e-mail: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu phone: (510) 548-3115 home fax: (510) 644-4471 home -- Bryan Costales -- Systems Manager, International Computer Science Institute Internet: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu BITNET: bcx@ucbicsi 37 degrees 52.193 minutes north by 122 degrees 16.277 minutes west URL: http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/~costales/ From Charlie Wright Thu Jun 8 20:20:15 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 20:20:15 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII On Thu, 8 Jun 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > > Bill Wrote: snip > > I dont understand? > circulating through the heater core. The heater is part of the by-pass > circuit, so, the engine temperture is not affected. I'll qualify this: MUCH. It happens that opening the heater flow-control on my '74 BMW will provide _just_ enough cooling in summer to keep me 'out of the red' in stop-and-go Houston traffic... but it makes the cockpit darn-near unbearable... sort of a second radiator Charlie From Russell Burns Thu Jun 8 12:21:28 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 12:21:28 PDT From: Russell Burns Subject: R-Rover air conditioning. A couple of weeks ago I noticed that my air conditioning was not working. The compresser would cycle on for a short period. I first thought it was low freon, but a few minutes work with a Volt meter disproved this theory. I then thought it might be the temp sensor. Getting at the Temp sensor turned out to be a big job. dismantling the dash is a real pain. I finally found another black box for the air conditioner. After cussing, and swearing about the great location, and mounting accessability I did get at it, and found that there was an actual reostat connected to the tempature selector for the heater. In my case the plastic connection from the temp selector to the reostat had broken, and was stuck in the warm position. The fix was to cut the wires to the reostat, and tie the connections to the black box together. This keeps the air conditioner on the coldest setting. Where I usally set it anyway. Also while trying to replace the ac/heat control bezel, I managed to` break 2 out ot of four dash lights. It seems that Lucus enginerring drilled holes in the dash for the lights and wires to fit thru. If they do not line up perfectly, you break off the tabs to the lights. I averaged 1 light per attempt. Russ Burns D-90 getting the bumps banged out R-Rover From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Fri Jun 9 08:18:03 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 08:18:03 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? >Whilst rotating tires, I noticed that my Sr IIA 109 has about 1/2" of play >in-and-out at the top of the front tires with the front end jacked up and >the brakes applied. >I wonder if this suggests replacement of the swivel pin bushes? If there's only a small amount of play, and 1/2" at the top of the tyre isn't so much, then you can probably get by with just removing some shims from the swivel pin thingy(1). This can be done without dismantling the whole hub and swivel pin assembly. But have a container or drip trap underneath because you will certainly lose some oil as the housing moves and breaks the oil seal, and carefully support the hub if you do this so as not to damage the seal. Cheers, Hugh SIIA 88", in bits... From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Jun 08 13:25:52 1995 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 1995 13:25:52 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII Spencer KC Norcross writes: >> Exactly! He stops the diversion or circulation of the coolant to >> the heating system in the summer (Turn Clock-Wise in March), [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >coolant throught the engine? >or does the engine have a complete coolant circuit of its own? OK now son, sit down, let's go over whole thing one more time. Now boy, let me say this, the engine has its own water cooling system circulating ALL the time. Are you with me so far boy? Now pay attention boy! This is where it gets tricky. In that cooling loop is a tap with a switch on it. Got that boy? Now this tap takes SOME of the hot water and diverts it to the heater. And now get this boy, it returns to the cooling system at a later point. That's all there's to it boy! The whole thing works like a second parallel radiator --inside the car. That's it! Nothing to it, simple as pie, huh boy? Wakeup boy! Weren't you listenin' ? (Kids these days... ). Wwoooaaaa boy! That's more like it! Now you got it... (Kids, sheesh!) :) valve -> <- /----------# passenger #=======\ # heater # [[[[]]]] | # [engine] | # [[[[]]]] | # -> /----/ #============/ <- return radiator -Michael "Foghorn" Carradine cs@crl.com From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Thu Jun 8 13:41:07 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 13:41:07 PDT From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Series III's on 16" wheels All, Just put new tyres and 16" Discovery steel wheels on "Beryl", What a difference !!!! Top speed has increased by at least 7 MPH, and with the O/D on that must be an extra 10MPH + I got a set of General AT's 265/75/16 only $88 a tyre, great value an they fill out the wheel arch with plenty of room to spare. Anyone thinking of going to 16" wheels, do it. Mark From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Thu Jun 8 13:40:52 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 13:40:52 PDT From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Range Rover temp sensors et al All, My 88 Range Rover gone through two water temp sensors. Both have set off the EFI light. On the question of steering box pumps, mine leaks, it went last winter, sterring got real haevy then it was fine. I can live with checking the fluid every month. If it does leak, make sure you park it with the wheels facing forward and not turned !! I did this one day and drained the fluid out !!! I always carry a spare bottle of fluid. While on the subject of RR's. I just replaced the rear springs and shocks, rear radius arm bushes. What a difference. NO bouncing from the back, and it sits upright again. Now I have to do the front. Mark From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Jun 08 13:59:47 1995 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 95 13:59:47 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Spring lift for Land-Rover? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Spring lift for Land-Rover? Does anyone know of a spring lift kit for a Land-Rover? I understand that "Old man EMU" or ARB may have a lot of accessories for Land-Rovers, does anyone have a phone number for them?? Anyone know of a 2-3" spring lift for this? (New leaf springs with more arch.) Series IIa-88. Also looking for "poly" bushings for an 88 and a 109. Please advise! Thanks, #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Jun 8 14:24:20 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 95 14:24:20 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Range Rover temp sensors et al Good to know you've had similar experiences! I have replaced the rear springs and shocks and radius arm bushes too, and certainly found it beneficial. Actually I used 2 LH springs to even up the level a bit more. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Jun 8 14:34:57 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 14:34:57 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII > I'll qualify this: MUCH. It happens that opening the heater flow-control > on my '74 BMW will provide _just_ enough cooling in summer to keep me [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > cockpit darn-near unbearable... sort of a second radiator > Charlie Yes, I have also turned on the heater in summer, like when pulling a trailer over Donner Pass in August. That Kodiak is a real good radiator. R, bg Whew... it's getting hot in here From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 8 17:47:07 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 17:47:07 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: RR A/C, Heater, & Fog Machine I checked in a while back with the problem that my '89 RR was a regular fog machine when it's wet out. The answer I got back was the one that I expected, that is, that the fresh/recirc flap was stuck in the recirc position. The solution: Buy a $40 solenoid or just fix the flap into the open position. Favoring the latter (I never choose recirc), my question to the group today is: Since the A/C works on recirc only, will I sabotage my A/C system (great A/C, by the way), if I just pin the flap in the fresh position? Waddya think? Huh? From Craig Murray Fri Jun 9 9:14:20 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 9:14:20 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Spring lift for Land-Rover? > Does anyone know of a spring lift kit for a Land-Rover? I understand > that "Old man EMU" or ARB may have a lot of accessories for Land-Rovers, > does anyone have a phone number for them?? Anyone know of a 2-3" spring > lift for this? (New leaf springs with more arch.) Series IIa-88. The Australian army put extended spring shackle plates on their IIA Land Rovers to lift them off the ground, and it works quite well. As for ARB and Old man EMU, I thought they concentrated on the Jap crap that needs all that kind of stuff to get close to the performance of a Rover, I was also told never to buy Australian springs, as they make the leaves too thick, so they give a really bad ride. It should not be hard to make a set of shackle plates, but make sure they are strong, as some home made ones I have seen, twist and bend all over the place. The Army ones have a bolt that goes through them to give added strength. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Jun 8 16:37:30 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 16:37:30 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Hot in here /Heater valve SII Well, almost, your flow is reversed for the heater; heater valve ~ | <-cold o_ O<--------------------# passenger # | | # heater # | | | | # | | <-hot [[[[]]]] | radiator V # o====X========[engine] | # |-O-bp [[[[]]]] | # | @ \----O #======O=======/ hot-> cold -> return X is thermostat Some early LRs have a "skirted" themostat that closes off the by-pass as the thermostat opens. This part is NLS. A skirted thermo can help increase the flow to the heater. @ is water pump; sucks water from bottom of radiator *or* through by-pass if themostat is closed (engine cold) *and* from heater if heater valve is open. Pushes water into block-head-out. Hot water from the top, rear of the head goes to heater. Heater return is to the heater valve, screwed into the by-pass casting at the front of the engine. bp is by-pass R, bg From chi@dhvx20.csudh.edu Thu Jun 08 16:47:58 1995 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 1995 16:47:58 PST From: chi@dhvx20.csudh.edu Subject: Range Rover Dealer and Price. Los Angeles. Hello my friend, I would like to find out about Range Rover dealership in Los Angeles area. I will be buying the 4.0 SE this week and would like to get a great deal on the car. If you know of any dealers that are easy to negotiate please let me know about it. Thank you for your information! Denny chi@dhvx20.csudh.edu From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Jun 8 21:30:58 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 21:30:58 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Camel Trophy Daily Log Wednesday, June 7th - Hundreds cheered in a downpour as the Camel Trophy team forded the muddy Mopan River and made its way into Xunantunich, Belize's best-preserved Mayan city and site of the final series of special tasks. However, the strain of working up to 20 hours a day for 16 days as the team covered 1,700 km was showing on some of the participants. Several dispalyed prominent battel wounds, while the worst occurered just before Xunantunich: international adventure photographer Hannes Schmid and his assistant were injuried when their Discovery rolled just before the finish. Both were airlifted to a hospital in Belize City; Hannes was hospitalized while his assistant Phillip Rathmer was released after being treated. Rathmer attributed his minor injuries to the strength of the vehicle. The next two days will feature 30 hours of almost constant energy-sapping and mind-numbing special tasks. The winning teams should be known by Thursday night. Thursday, June 8th - "I need another man. I am slowly killing my teammates," said Swiss participant Manuela Catalini. In two days, she has lost two teammates. On Sunday, team member Christian Gremaud sliced open his leg in a cholera-infected river; he was forced to withdraw. Team journalist Jorg Petersen volunteered to take his place, but he too slipped in the same river whilst trying to carry a replica stone carving during a subsequent special task. Tearing ligaments in his knee, he too was forced to withdraw. The other Swiss journalist, Richard Grell, stepped forward but doubted that his admittedly weak knees could carry the day. Only a few of the special tasks involve driving, and many are near impossible. Any of you fancy a go at the Camel Trophy? Try this on for size: a task dubbed "Stone Woman" (the English translation of Xunantunich) involved pairs of teams trying to recover a 300 kg (!!!) stone engraving from 4 meters of murky water...and temperatures were in the high 30's (C). American participant Daphne Green twisted here ankle but soldiered on despite it swelling to twice-normal size. The "Mopan Communication" task had participants carry two, full 20 liter jerry cans and a spare tire 1,500 meters. It was luck (or rather *bad* luck) that the Dutch team of Erik Jan de Rooij and John Warmerdam got the high noon time slot. "Each step is punishment enough without having the sun on your head," he said. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Jun 8 21:30:54 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 21:30:54 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Remoulds I've had favorable experiences with remoulds, 'cept on this side of the pond they're called "retreads". Had a set of radial Uniroyals that wore out fairly quickly...only got 20,000 miles outta 'em. As the sidewalls/carcass was in good shape, I had 'em retreaded at a local "Bandag" jobber. The retreads lasted for 60,000 miles before the sidewwalls started cracking due to UV degradation. By comparing the remaining tread depth to the original thickness, I figured they would've run 90,000 miles!!! The only bad experience came two days into the experience...some slacker at the shop put a 6.00 by 16 tube in 7.50 X 16 radials...and it blew at 60 mph. Wasn't the tire's fault, just that of some jughead at the changing station. (The retreader made good and bought a new tire, though) Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 8 21:36:07 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 21:36:07 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: RePost I checked in a while back with the problem that my '89 RR was a regular fog machine when it's wet out. The answer I got back was the one that I expected, that is, that the fresh/recirc flap was stuck in the recirc position. The solution: Buy a $40 solenoid or just fix the flap into the open position. Favoring the latter (I never choose recirc), my question to the group today is: Since the A/C works on recirc only, will I sabotage my A/C system (great A/C, by the way), if I just pin the flap in the fresh position? Waddya think? Huh? xxx From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Jun 8 20:12:32 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 20:12:32 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: LR Press Coverage Well, it's true what one of you (was it Teri-ann?) said recently, that the re-introduction of Land-Rovers to the US has raised awareness of the breed. I had expected that this is what would happen and I'm glad it has. Makes all my years of diligent efforts at stalking all the derelict Land-Rovers seem more worthwhile. If I had a better place to put them, I do believe I'd be out buying more (oh, yes, I can find them). Just look at the amount of press coverage Land-Rovers are getting now. Not just the new ones (Four-Wheeler has been very good to them and the first issue of Open Road was durn near full of 'em), but old ones, too. Just this evening, on the way home from work, I went to the supermarket and (of course) stopped by the newsstand to check out the four-wheel-drive magazines for Land-Rover content. Lo and behold, the July issue of Peterson's Four-Wheel and Off-Road had a letter from a John Deneke of Glen Rock, NJ, complete with photo, telling about his 109 SW with a 215cid (3.5 liter) aluminum V-8 stroked to 266cid (about 4.4 liters), mated to a TH 400 with switch/pitch (whatever that is, presumably an automatic with a variable-pitch torque converter). Had other heavy duty fitments, too. Then, a couple of pages later, there was a Champion Spark Plug ad featuring an 80" Series I (a 1950, I think), a trialer fitted with Lucas driving lamps and dual front-mounted NATO water jerry cans. And it's been like that alot, lately. I like it. The July Road & Track magazine had a little blurb about Land-Rover's co-venture with upscale tour company Abercrombie & Kent to stage very upscale Land-Rover safaris in various countries of Southeast Africa. No prices mentioned but they sounded *very* expensive. Also in Four-Wheeler, there was a brief article about the finals for the Camel Trophy. Rather out-of-date for we of the net who can get blow-by-blow descriptions each day, with photos. Also was an article rating top ten best buys in 4x4s and Land-Rover was in there, too, as the best value in Luxury SUVs (the Range Rover "Classic"). I especially liked it that Champion would use a 45-year old Land-Rover in an ad in an American red-neck 4x4 magazine. Life is good. Cheers, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, CA (707)485-7220 (home) (707)463-4265 (work) '73 Land-Rover 88, more LRs, Austin Champ, BMW 3.0si, Peugeot 505 Turbo... From "Walter C. Swain" Thu Jun 8 22:15:07 1995 Date: Thu, 8 Jun 1995 22:15:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Remoulds >>>>> Alexander P. Grice writes: > I've had favorable experiences with remoulds, 'cept on this side of the pond [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > fairly quickly...only got 20,000 miles outta 'em. As the sidewalls/carcass > was in good shape, I had 'em retreaded at a local "Bandag" jobber. This raises an important point for anybody considering using retreads/remoulds. A few years ago I had a complete set of Michelin retreads from a quite reputable local Michelin dealer in an odd size (7.50x15). A couple of the carcasses failed and were replaced with no question and three more failed in rapid order. It turned out that the tire size was so unusual (obsolete) that they had difficulty finding donors and they all were too old. The retreaded part was fine, but those fine old Michelin tires were just too tired. Anybody wanting to save money this way ought to follow Sandy's example in making certain that the donor tires are fairly new. Walter Swain 1967 IIA 109 Safari SW, petrol Davis, CA From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Jun 9 16:38:33 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:38:33 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Radials on a Rover? How BIG? Alan writes: > What I was told by DAP was to avoid anything over a 205 75 R 16 tire with a > 109 with overdrive as it puts too much of a strain on the Fairey. Uuum maybe I'm missing something here but what has tyre diameter got to do with the stresses and strain on the O/D? Max engine torque is still max engine torque regardless of tyre size isnt it. If tyre size screwed up O/D's then so would diff ratio changes, but even more so... I'd really like to know what point they are trying to make... sounds like B_____t to me. can anyone explain..... What does using factory 9.00-16 do to an O/D if tyres taller than 205's are bad for them?????? As to radial sizes I've run 235/85-16 8pl Radials on a IIa 109 with O/D and 3.3L worked 6cyl. O/d used to get a bit hot but we cruised at 140+ Kmh.. I know of people using 255?/85-16 BFG M-T's on sIII's. Turning circle blows out a bit but if thats waht you want... I dont know what you have over there but I'm reasonably happy with my 235/85-16 Hankook Z36's (korean) (old Goodyear wrangler pattern clone) The rubber compound seems to be fairly hard as they are wearing very well, but can be a bit skatey on wet roads (still heaps better than Bias plys) They have scalloped a bit more than I would like, but some of that may be my fault (g) They have certainly lasted longer than the 750-16 G/year wranglers they replaced. Over here (OZ) the korean tyres (Hankook, Kumho, etc) are one hell of a lot cheaper than locally made/USA/Euro/JAP stuff. Might be worth a look. boss's comming gotta go -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 09 95 Jun EDT 1904 Date: 09 Jun 95 04:18:15 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Vandalism A brand new Defender 90 300 TDi softtop of a friend of mine has fallen victim to a meanwhile well-known scourge of our times, inner city vandalism. This is a Defender with the regular (military) tarp, so it is in fact an open vehicle - a temptation the scum roaming our streets at night seemingly can't resist. In the case of my friend, he drove off in the morning (the car had been parked in the street overnight) and after a minute or so had liquids - coolant, diesel, brake fluid, oil - dripping and squirting all over the place. He opened the bonnet to find that *all* caps of everything - coolant reservoir, oil filler, brake & clutch cylinder, wiper washer - had been removed, hoses had been pulled off at several places, even the dipstick had been pulled out and thrown away. Some braindead hoodlum had crawled in through the back cut it up) and opened the bonnet from the inside. The only comment from the police, "You shouldn't leave such a vehicle standing in the street." Sure, it's always the victims fault for becoming a victim, right? Fortunately for my friend a major retailer in Holland had all the missing or damaged parts in stock and sent them off via express carrier, so they arrived the same day in the evening - at a price. I told him of the old 'Series days' and advised him to secure his bonnet with the good ol' latch & padlock technique that us LR veterans have grown up with. There's also a pet shop right next to where my friend lives, and I understand he's already inquired if they could get him a big fat Rattler or Viper to leave in the back of the car overnight. So, if again someone tampers with his car at night and hears something hissing it just *might* not be the radiator... Stefan From Mike Rooth Fri Jun 9 9:50:15 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 9:50:15 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? > > Its not a job you want to do if it can be avoided! > > With the amount of play you mention,it doesnt sound [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > like a case for not driving it again until it's fixed. Like real dangerous. > R, bg Bill, There are many things its not,and dangerous is one of them!Its not right,desirable,or good for tyre wear,but its also not too bad. I've had almost that play at the brake drum rim.When you look at the size of the bits involved,and the way they are put together, they aint going anywhere.If I wanted to be picky about it,and the swivel was a bit torn up,I'd fit a new top swivel,but that's about the height of it.After all,how many Land Rovers do you see with a horizontal front wheel due to swivel pin failure? Cheers Mike Rooth From Spenny@aol.com Fri Jun 9 06:30:15 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 06:30:15 -0400 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: re: vandalism Stefan wrote: I understand he's already inquired if they could get him a big fat Rattler I am ssssssshocked, that's disssssssssgussssting! spenny From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Jun 08 21:13:41 1995 Date: Thu, 08 Jun 95 21:13:41 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: engine rebuilds for longer life At the shop where I work we rebuild any engine and type, ie propane diesel gas etc. We completely rebuild everything to my satisfaction, except I belive that the re use of bolts / cap scews that have been previously torqued to be really cheap, but that is an inductry standard for the most part. I'll run through what happens at the shop, excuse the typos 'cos this is live for me! Upon receipt the engine is completly dissassembled, head off, valves and springs out, pistons out, rods out , crank out, cam out, lifters, cam bearings you name it. Frost plugs etc are knocked out. Parts (all except aluminum cos they dissolve) go into the hot tank along with the block and cam etc. Any aluminum parts go into a giant dishwasher type unit that does for alumnium bits. After hot tanking for about 4/5 hours with agitation all is removed and rinsed with hot water and compressed air , then dried off. Head and block is then magnafluxed. Bores usually get .010" over and same with crank. cam is left alone and put back to factory spec usually. rods are re sized and honed, bores always get honed too. new pistons go onto old rods, head shop checks out seats valves and springs. seats are re done, valves glass beaded and re ground if they mic up ok. New guides if the head neads it. Spring pressures checked. resurface head if it needs it aswell. The into the dishwasher and rinsed and dried before finally assembly. Locks etc re used, valves get lubed before installation, usually witha special heavy STP gunk. head then sent to assembly dept to mate up with block. Block is put together on a real clean bench. all parts are lubed with STP gunk. NOT GREASE. Once block and head are back together we use a pressurized iol pig to force oil through the oil galleries and into the bearing surfaces to ensure a wet start up. As block is built it is painted on the bench. Detroit Diesel green is the close match to Land Rover colour. Quit often complete motor is hooked up to fuel etc and fired up before it leaves the shop just so that we can be extra sur on some of the big engines. BTW all heads are vacuum tested with the valves to ensure good sealing. We can and do assemble heads and leak test them under water in a big tank if needs be. We re weld most of our own aluminum heads, if the head has erosion after a blown gasket etc. Cast heads go out but i'm trying to change that one. We have an oven and pre and post head the heads. I feel our shop has some fine workers wiht excellent skills that get wasted alot of the times, as the customer doesnt take the same lvel of care that we do. Event hought they kid themselves that they do. As a result they get a head sent in and re built and then sit the head machnied surface down on the driveway!! Seen it! Or they ignore the instructions we give about valve adjustment etc. But they do come back!! We do any head from BIG Caterpillar engines to weany one cylinder jobbies. We do engines from teeny cars to BIG detroits too. as long as they pay! We even re weld cranks if need be and re machine them ourselves. TTFN Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From "Tom Rowe" Fri Jun 9 07:16:40 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 07:16:40 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Engine rebuilds: Any gotchas? >Cummins Diesel green is a really close match to the original LR green. I believe that Detroit Diesel Alpine Green is a closer match. >Use lots (really lots) of grease and oil during the reassembly. Ahmen I use Engine Assembly Grease (I forget the mfg.) and use a mixture (1:1) of STP and 30W on the pistons (it doesn't run off as quickly if you have to leave the project for a day or two). Also be very careful on the rear main cork seals if you trim them according to the manual, it's easy to cut them too much. Thin shim stock works reasonably well for preventing damage to them when you insert the rear main cap. My two cents worth. ps. Has anyone out there used the replacement timing gears advertised in the L/R Owner Digest instead of a timing chain. I'm very intrigued by them as I find gears to be more reliable generally. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Four wheel drive allows you to get trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Fri Jun 9 07:33:59 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 07:33:59 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? >Scotty is currently dead set against gaiters. That's one opinion, here's another. I've been driving Rovers for a little over 20 years, both with & w/out gaiters. I like 'em. Gravel roads will lead to pitted swivels quickly and lots of snow driving can damage the oil seals as you turn full lock to full lock. The snow gets packed tighter and tighter and turns to ice, very hard. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Four wheel drive allows you to get trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Alrik L. Svenson" Fri Jun 9 08:37:47 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 08:37:47 -0400 (EDT) From: "Alrik L. Svenson" Subject: Turn Signals on RR My Parents own a '89 RR which is having a strange problem with the turn signals. The fuse was blown so I replaced it. The turn signals would work with the power on but the engine not running. When the engine was started though, the fuse would blow again. Their mechanic checked the alternator and all light fixtures for corrosion and all seem to be ok. Could this be the voltage regulator or is there some electronic control unit which is causing problems? I would be interested in hearing from those who have experienced similar electrical problems. Thanks. From Steven M Denis Fri Jun 9 09:18:20 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 09:18:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Hot in there you bet! That skirted thermostat *is* available and *must* be used!!! The engineering department didn't give a hoot if your butt was toasty or not...many Land Rovers came w/o a heater at all..That skirt is to block off the by-pass so that *all* the coolant flows through the radiator..with a "flat" thermostat part of the coolant just goes round and round getting hotter and hotter until the #4 exhaust valve gives up and/or the head cracks..... steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis PO Box 296 Fulton, New York USA 13069 From ccray@showme.missouri.edu Fri Jun 9 08:49:08 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 08:49:08 -0500 (CDT) From: ccray@showme.missouri.edu Subject: Re: engine rebuilds for longer life On Thu, 8 Jun 1995, Robin Craig wrote: Thanks, I liked the details... Planning on a rebuild within the next 6 months on a "spare engine"... > Upon receipt the engine is completly dissassembled, head off, valves and > springs out, pistons out, rods out , crank out, cam out, lifters, cam > bearings you name it. Frost plugs etc are knocked out. do you worry about keeping the push rods, lifters in sync so they can go back in where they came out or is that really necessary... > Parts (all except aluminum cos they dissolve) go into the hot tank along > with the block and cam etc. > bearings you name it. Frost plugs etc are knocked out. what about the LR head -- it has aluminum plugs. can you hot tank it. if the aluminum disolves out, how do you replace the plugs... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Fri Jun 9 07:08:56 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 07:08:56 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: Camel Trophy photos >>Also in Four-Wheeler, there was a brief article about the finals for the >>Camel Trophy. Rather out-of-date for we of the net who can get blow-by-blow [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >Mark Maslar >mark.maslar@software.rockwell.com OK I exaggerated a bit. There is also a Camel Trophy log on the on-line 4x4 magazine. The Web address for the Camel Trophy report, which does have some photos, is: Enjoy. Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, CA (707)485-7220 (home) (707)463-4265 (work) '73 Land-Rover 88, more LRs, Austin Champ, BMW 3.0si, Peugeot 505 Turbo... From Sanna@aol.com Fri Jun 9 10:41:55 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 10:41:55 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Parts Car Hey Tom - Did you ever get out to Cambridge to check out Ibenez's LR? Timing chains have always been the bane of my IIa, as well. I got quite good at replacing chains and worn vibration dampers. The final fix, however, was a new oil pump and main bearings. Even when Lulubelle was brand new she never had more than 40lbs oil pressure. I was alwas loosing timing components. The sound of a whipping chain on deceleration was often the sound of the car. Since the last rebuild (about 150,000 miles ago), I get a consistant 60 lbs pressure, and I haven't heard a peep from the front of the engine since. The timimg gear arrangement sounds interesting, though. TS From Jim Russell Fri Jun 9 08:03:14 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 08:03:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Swivel Pin Rebuild... If you buy a swivel pin rebuild kit, be a bit careful. As I recall, the PN 532268 kit is for pins using 3/8" studs for earlier type Railco bush installations and for conversion of the cone and spring type damping. It has top pins that are pressed into the bracket. Later types used 7/16" studs/bolts and I believe the top pin is a solid piece. I think the actual top pin diameter and ID of the Railco bush is different, too. I had the kit for my '66 88 and found it wasn't suitable and ended up buying all the individual bits. Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From Tim Guy Wed Jun 07 16:42:18 1995 Date: Wed, 07 Jun 1995 16:42:18 GMT From: Tim Guy Subject: AHHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH, Why is it everyone in the US is crying out for a good hard top, and in the UK I cant get a softstop for Love nor money. Well thats not true, I could get one at about =A32000 pounds (roll bar, poles, etc). T= he only way I can really buy one is to sell mine and buy a Ex MOD one, but the= re only 2.5D, so then id have to convert the engine to some better. I cant take this anymore. Pigs, Pigs, I see Pigs, Bloody big pink talking pigs, and there come towards me, aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. ********************************************************* * Tim Guy * * Email - Timbo@hurtwood.demon.co.uk * ********************************************************* From Dixon Kenner Fri Jun 9 11:26:52 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 11:26:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Hot in there you bet! On Fri, 9 Jun 1995, Steven M Denis wrote: > That skirted thermostat *is* available and *must* be used!!! Not all are available. One of the low compression heads has a slightly smaller diameter hole for the thermostat. I tried several from RN and none would fit in. Not even close. An option is to put a blanking plate over the bypass and drill a 5/16" hole in the centre From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Jun 9 09:34:16 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 09:34:16 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Hot in there you bet! > That skirted thermostat *is* available and *must* be used!!! > steve.... Ok, tell me where to get one. Then tell me why my temp gauge is nailed to 160F with the unskirted thermo installed about a month ago. R, bg From Charlie Wright Fri Jun 9 14:31:38 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 14:31:38 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Engine rebuilds: Any gotchas? (fwd) >ps. Has anyone out there used the replacement timing gears advertised >in the L/R Owner Digest instead of a timing chain. I'm very intrigued >by them as I find gears to be more reliable generally. >Tom I would agree about reliability, although a chain running in oil is lower friction than most gears (more friction loss in BMW's shaft-driven motorcycles than in a closed chain), they do stretch and can break (same in motorcycles). I have heard good things about the gears, but I suspect that the expense involved is such that you could buy and change (yourself) several timing chains over the years before the gears are econmical. Other comments I've heard pointed out that the slop in the drive gear for the injection pump (in 2.25 diesel = my particular case) is such that any additional precision of the gears is wasted... On a petrol, it might be nice, though. Mostly they are very slick from an engineering point of view and they have a certain 'go-faster' value, sort of like chrome air-cleaners ('cept you can't see 'em) Charlie From Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) 09 1995 Jun GMT 1922 Date: 09 Jun 1995 22:40:18 GMT From: Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) Subject: More Kodiak Heater Questions I remember a few days back someone said that their Kodiak Series III heater had three speeds. I just got an unbeatable deal on a Kodiak Mark III heater (free!) for my '71 Series IIA but it only has one wire coming out of the motor. In my book this means one speed unless there is a special switch that I'm missing. I like the idea of more heat in the winter but not the idea of only one setting. Any ideas??? Also, has anyone out there ever replaced the standard Smiths heater on a '71 with a Kodiak? It looks like the cutout on the firewall for the Smiths is bigger than that required by the Kodiak, although I've only eyeballed it at dusk. Will I have to make some sort of adaptor plate and will the Kodiak work with my regular heat distribution box? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Fred - sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered). From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Jun 9 16:04:49 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 16:04:49 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: More Kodiak Heater Questions > I remember a few days back someone said that their Kodiak Series III heater > had three speeds. I just got an unbeatable deal on a Kodiak Mark III heater [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Fred The Kodiak came "stock" with a little control panel that had three chrome knobs; Open-close extenal vent, open-close water valve, two speed fan, all three are push-pull. The fan speed control is a two position switch that puts a resistor in the circuit for low speed. This control wore out on mine and I was unable to find a replacement. Auto parts store has (or can get) a three speed heater fan switch that has a high enough wattage rating for the Kodiak fan motor. The Smiths infinitely variable control, found on some British cars will go into melt down running a Kodiak. A wreaking yard would yield a fan speed control from some big pig sedan, again, switch and resistors. From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Fri Jun 9 19:07:32 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 95 19:07:32 PDT From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: CAMEL TROPHY RESULTS Learned today that final results in.... Overall winner of 1995 Camel Trophy was the Czech Republic. Winner of Team Spirit was Russia. Team USA finished 11th place - apparently they were doing much better until injury befell Daphne Green. Congrats to all. Can't wait to see the video on this one! Cheerz Jim - now completely mad... and loving it! From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 09 95 Jun EDT 1922 Date: 09 Jun 95 22:22:02 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Misc. Have just returned from 2 weeks R and R in dear old Blighty, was fortunate to have a friend who let me double enter his coil sprung ser 1 in the National Trial for my retirement event, now I plan to try and amke a few comebacks over the next few years. Nice to see Bill C, John H ( hope you enjoyed your visit to gaydon ) and Stefan J.. A few comments from the mail I have read so far : Pierce, the retail price for the STC 8018L was 162.55 pounds in Oct 94 list, exc VAT. John Y Lui. - swivel bearing play,--- first check to ensure that it is all swivel bearing play, there may be some wheel bearing float also. I suggest that 1/2" at the wheel rim can be removed by removing some of the shims from between the swivel arm and the housing to reduce the clearance in the lower taper rollewr bearings. Terri Ann Do not put anti sieze grease on the taper of the track rod ends, only on the threads that screw into the track rod. Greasing the taper will create difficulty in tightening the nut to lock the tapers together. In addition the taper is already copper plated. The drive flange screws are 3/8 " BS fine, you are better off with High tensile bolts, not hardened. Hardened bolts are more likely to shear than High tensile types. Mike Slade Hardy Spicer are an Original Equipment supplier of Hookes joints for drive shafts, you need have no worries about their suitability for your requirements. David Brown. Craddocks list a bulkhead number plate for ser 2 and 3. Regards Bill Leacock, Limey in exile. From Steven M Denis Fri Jun 9 23:17:38 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 23:17:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Hot in there you bet! Ok the skirted thermostat can be had from any of the US suppliers Rovers North for one.... The temperature gauge reads the water temperature at the outlet to the radiator..the whole point is that the the thermostat opens like it should...but some (most?) of the water peals off and returns to the block..it is the rear cylinder that suffers the most..I have several head here with burnt #4 valves and the flat thermostat still installed..I first noticed this on my diesel..the temperature pickup point is on the rear of the head on these...the top radiator hose got warm at 150ish but the temperature rose to 230 F on the gauge...tried seveal new units than installed a skirted type... Presto!....do what you want folks....*Everyone* knows more than I.......I really can't care if everyones valves except my own burn to a crisp....Really don't care if *my* valves burn to a crisp actually........hell, just drain the water and go air cooled..50 god-zillon VW's can't be wrong!!!!! (Dixon..do you have a early 2,25 with the deep thermostat housing perchance?) steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis PO Box 296 Fulton, New York USA 13069 From paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Sat Jun 10 10:13:00 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 10:13:00 +1000 From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Subject: Re: Diesel engines 2 1/4, 2 1/2 turbo After rebuilding my 2 1/4 diesel TWICE, plus purchasing every manual I could find (factory, Haynes, Brooklands, etc) and pestering every Land-Rover or diesel expert within a 100 mile radius: > Question is : There is a groove around the skirt of the pistons > (at the bottom), into which a bottom scraper / oil control > ring would fit perfectly. Should we or should we not fit a > ring in it? No. This is for an _extra_ ring when the engine wears. You start out with the normal three compression + one oil scraper at the top. When the exhaust starts getting oily (white smoke), you open the engine & pop in the second oil scraper (plus replace the top rings at the same time). At least, that's the theory :-). > >-Can somebody tell me anything about the TD (not the TDi) engine? > derivative of the normally aspirated 2.5 diesel, which was basically a > derivative of the old 2.25 diesel, which was basically a derivative of the > ring in it? Let me qualify what I have to say right now: I do not own a 2 1/2 turbo, and so this is all hearsay (from a couple of owners, the agents, a few mechanics) These have a very bad reputation in South Africa, as they don't rev any higher than a 2 1/4, although you can maintain the 90km/hr top speed up steeper hills, and they warp their heads. Maybe we just got a dud batch, or the importers did something wrong with the turbo unit, but the average life of a South African 2 1/2 turbo engine is about 50,000km before needing a rebuild. The South African army had all their 2 1/2 turbo engines replaced with TDi units, and AAD (the pre-BMW importers) were selling lots of refurbished 2 1/2 turbo engines very cheap at one stage. With more gentle treatment, they may well last a whole lot longer, and there may be a newer head design that keeps them a bit cooler. However, hard hot driving is probably not a good thing. YMMV! From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Jun 9 21:20:16 1995 Date: Fri, 9 Jun 1995 21:20:16 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Hot in there you bet! > Ok the skirted thermostat can be had from any of the US suppliers Rovers > North for one.... > The temperature gauge reads the water temperature at the outlet to the > radiator..the whole point is that the the thermostat ope... blah blah I understand how it works and why. There are NONE! It may be in the catalog but they are NLS. Unless they *all* lied to me. Maybe you can order for me??? You can put a put a restiction in the by-pass. I have a thin brass plate with three ~3/8" holes in it that I can put in the by-pass, where it has two bolts to the thermostat housing. I had it in before I found a skirted thermostat about 8 years ago. When that one died a month ago I tried to find a replacement, there ain't any. I don't have the resticter plate in either, yet. I'm running at 160F, solid. Have you ever heard the story about the little old lady who went to the ice cream store and asked for chocolate? There wasn't any. The nice ice cream man listed off all the other 36 flavors. She asked for chocolate again. They went through the same routine several times. The nice ice cream man then asked the little old lady if she could spell the "straw" in strawberry. She did. Then he asked if could spell the "van" in vanilla. She did. The nice ice cream man then asked her to spell the "fuck" in chocolate. She said, quite indignant, "young man! thFrom hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Sat Jun 10 20:07:06 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 20:07:06 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: rebuild in progress - small brake question I've been putting off a couple of large jobs for a while, but the time has come to bite the bullet. So I've removed the body off the 88 to get a good look at the chassis. Fortunately there were no surprises, but there is still enough work to do. The big jobs are welding repairs on the rear chassis cross member, the driver's side outrigger, driver's footbox, and A-pillars. And reconditioning the Holden, plus a few other incidental jobs. So far I've removed the hard top, roll cage, doors, floor and gearbox tunnel, rear body, seat box, petrol tank, side skirts and sills, wings, grille and radiator, windscreen, and the skin off three knuckles. Tomorrow the head comes off. It's fun, but she's my daily driver so I just hope I can keep up the enthusiasm to get it back together again before Monique wants her car back. Anyway, the brake question... one of the incidentals is a partially seized rear wheel cylinder. I have a set of seals for it, but I also just happen to have a brand new pair of wheel cylinders from a 110, courtesy of a friend. The 88" brakes use 1" diameter cylinders, but these new ones are 1 1/16". Other than that difference they bolt right in and fit perfectly. So should I use them? The larger bore will be slightly more powerful, yes?, so which axle would they be best used on? It would be easy enough to put them on the front, and swap the front ones to the rear, if that works better. I'll keep you updated on progress, and doubtless will have other easy questions from time to time. Hugh 88" IIA From JDolan2109@aol.com Sat Jun 10 08:42:21 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 08:42:21 -0400 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: 109/BIG 16's/OD = strain? On Mon., 8 June, Alan Richer wrote: What I was told by DAP was to avoid anything over a 205 75R16 tire with a 109 with overdrive as it puts too much of a strain on the Fairey. ------------- My only thoughts on that is that it might just be too much tire (circumferentially) for a 109 (additional weight) with 2.25L motor fitted. I have no experience with the 2.6L or 3.0L (as found in a LR) other than salvaging parts for use on my P5. I've found that with 16's, my 88" is slower to come up to speed. Top end and MPG are increased, but with an OD fitted and a hill encountered, 'split' shifting is repeatedly necessitated to maintain optimum RPMs. Perhaps this is the strain mentioned? (a *whole* lot of 'split' shifts can lead to a few 'splat' shifts!) I do try not to subject my OD to severe load (i.e. abuse) conditions, and try to use it to sustain rpms, rather than achieve them. Did you get your advice from DAP prior to Bruce's involvement? I've gotten nothing but good advice from Bruce. His experience has saved me countless hours of discovering things for myself. My suggestion is to give him a call and ask for an explanation. Their number is: 802-885-6660. I got my current 'driver' and OD through him, and don't believe he'll steer you wrong. Even with an 88", I consider going to an agressively treaded 15" tire for certain conditions as I have often (mostly off road or deep, heavy snow) found the need for a higher rate of rotational acceleration at the wheel. As they say- "different horses for different courses" See 'ya on the old road... Jim '61 88" SW / OD, 1 Bbl weber & 16's (econobox?) LR....quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised! see 'ya at Owl's Head! From brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Fri Jun 09 18:07:00 1995 Date: Fri, 09 Jun 95 18:07:00 -700 From: brian.imdieke@iotp.com (BRIAN IMDIEKE) Subject: 89 RR Gremlins SG> The problem is my tachometer and fuel gauge work intermittently. Th SG> are always simultaneous. The non-functioning periods are solely dep SG> the temperature inside the vehicle. After the thing is parked and t SG> temp reaches 80 degrees F or so (every afternoon from May to October SG> Tennessee), the needles just lay there. After I run the AC for 20 m SG> so and get things good and cooled off, boing!, needles shoot into th SG> positions and everything's fine. Things are great on the way into w SG> morning, but I am never sure how much gas I have until I get almost SG> the evening. A friend of mine had a very similar problem in a Ford truck a few years back. Finding the problem took quite a while. Turned out to be a wire in the wiring harness was cut just a little tiny bit short and when the pin at the end was pushed into the connector, it just barely touched the opposing socket. It worked most of the time, but at just the right temperature it would stop working. Maybe you have a similar problem? You've heard from..... Brian Imdieke Phoenix, Arizona USA --- þ RM 1.3 01654 þ "Stop that, son, you'll go blind." "I'm over HERE, Dad!" * KMail 3.00 IOTP: AZ's LARGEST PCBoard - with INTERNET! From Charlie Wright Sat Jun 10 15:19:06 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 15:19:06 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: 109/BIG 16's/OD = strain? On Sat, 10 Jun 1995 JDolan2109@aol.com wrote: > On Mon., 8 June, Alan Richer wrote: > What I was told by DAP was to avoid anything over a 205 75R16 tire with a > 109 with overdrive as it puts too much of a strain on the Fairey. > My only thoughts on that is that it might just be too much tire > (circumferentially) for a 109 (additional weight) with 2.25L motor fitted. I > have no experience with the 2.6L or 3.0L (as found in a LR) other than > salvaging parts for use on my P5. I've found that with 16's, my 88" is slower > to come up to speed. Top end and MPG are increased, but with an OD fitted and Sure, larger diameter tyres put more strain on the overdrive, but they put more strain on the whole drivetrain. The point made about maximum torque being maximum torque is true, but imagine this scenario to understand. A) Machine is parked on greased banana peel with small slick tyres. Engage gear, and the wheels spin up to speed quickly. There is little force on the components of the drive train, because so little force is required to spin the wheels. The drive train won't break, the bearings might burn up though ;-) B) Machine is bolted by its back hubs to two large cement blocks (instead of wheels). When you engage the gear, the clutch will slip to a point, then the engine will groan, and something bad will happen. You will either kill the engine (lucky), burn out the clutch, break a half-shaft, break an overdrive, the gearbox, or the U-joints. More or less in that order. Your milage may vary. Imagine that big tyres are somewhere between the two scenarios. The bigger and grippier the tyre, the more it resembles a concrete block. You could take off the back body and put on tractor tyres, but you'd accelerate slowly and go through a lot of clutch plates. You could imagine this tyre getting bigger and bigger until it's too big to turn (or you end up with a chassis dangling between two large wheels and doing flips when the gears engage... hmmmm ). This approximates the fixed axle. In reality, just figure out the radius (or diameter) of the old and new. Divide new by old, and you get the factor you are gearing it up (increasing strain). I bet it isn't enough to worry about. eg. If your current diameter is 28", and you add a whole inch in radius, going to 30" diameter you're only looking at a 7% increase. Not very much. (going to RR diffs is about 33%). I wouldn't panic about the tyres, just be careful. Charlie From Steven M Denis Sat Jun 10 10:30:27 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 10:30:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: winch Someone on the list had a koenig pto winch and wanted crank driven Koenig? If so I have a need for the PTO job...have the crank driven...hello? anybody out there? steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis PO Box 296 Fulton, New York USA 13069 From Dixon Kenner Sat Jun 10 11:02:53 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 11:02:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Hot in there you bet! > (Dixon..do you have a early 2,25 with the deep thermostat housing perchance?) >. The II head where the thermostat sat inside the head itself and not above? Nope, though do have one of those on the shelf. The typical early IIA head where the thermostat sits inside the raised block. Rgds, From Steven M Denis Sat Jun 10 11:15:40 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 11:15:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: end of the story Ok, I spoke with Carlie Haigh of Rovers North. The skirted thermostat is alive and well there. It is the only unit supplied for series engines. It *is* a series 3 item. The difference is that the series 2 and 2a (early) was acually flat on top and was held in position by the water outlet. The series 3 unit stands proud of the bypass block and is retained by a counterbore inside the water outlet. There is an "O" ring to complete the seal at the top and the regular gasket at the base of the outlet.... *IF* you have an early 2a and need to fit a late thermostat, fit the late water outlet and "O" ring.......fair enough? gosh I thought Taylor was back for a bit... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis PO Box 296 Fulton, New York USA 13069 From BobandSueB@aol.com Sat Jun 10 12:05:30 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 12:05:30 -0400 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Re: heater ?? In a message dated 95-06-10 04:43:41 EDT, Fredrick Elsworth wrote, >I remember a few days back someone said that their Kodiak Series III heater >had three speeds. I just got an unbeatable deal on a Kodiak Mark III heater >(free!) for my '71 Series IIA but it only has one wire coming out of the >motor. In my book this means one speed unless there is a special switch that >I'm missing. I like the idea of more heat in the winter but not the idea of >only one setting. Any ideas??? >. An additional idea on the heaters, someone told me that he used a heater motor from a chevy luv which is also isuzu(I think) and it has three speed plus it fit right in and blew harder. Bob Bernard From BobandSueB@aol.com Sat Jun 10 12:10:05 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 12:10:05 -0400 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Re: Skirted thermostst In a message dated 95-06-10 04:43:41 EDT, you write: >From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) >Subject: Re: Hot in there you bet! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >catalog but they are NLS. Unless they *all* lied to me. Maybe you can order >for I got two of the correct thermostats just a few months ago from British Pacific. By the way, the one that had a flat thermostat also had cracks in the head. The old 21/4 head that has a deeper thermostat hole is a S2 it also requires adifferent timing chain/front cover and different waterpump, but I dont know if the thermostat is smaller One of the reaseons for the use of the flat thermostat was,years ago, some one put out a list of NAPA parts that would fit L/R and it gave the P/N Thats where I first found it and before I was aware of the bypass problem. Rovers North had a really good explanation about the thermostat and bypass in one of their newsletters. Bob Bernard Bob Bernard From "Matthew Holding (AUS)" <100036.2103@compuserve.com> 10 95 Jun EDT 1915 Date: 10 Jun 95 15:24:22 EDT From: "Matthew Holding (AUS)" <100036.2103@compuserve.com> Subject: sub unsubscribe land-rover-owner subscribe land-rover-owner-digest From johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Sat Jun 10 20:56:04 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 20:56:04 GMT From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Subject: My Rover Is Almost Sold -- And I'm Sad Well, my Sr IIA 109 is nearly sold, and I'm sad about it. Rover (it never did acquire a name) was taken to the mechanic for an inspection, compression check, and road test, which it passed with flying colors albeit the swivel ball pin bushes will need to be rebuilt "in the next few years" (mechanic's words.) The PNO (prospective new owner) will be coming back in the next week or so to arrange payment and take away my truck. Fortunately, he looks to be an enthusiastic Rover owner, and the truck will have a active, productive working life (he is a carpenter) without any off-roading of a destructive nature, so my conscience is pretty clear. And my wife (who is sadder than me about this, believe it or not) has agreed that when we are in England next year we DEFINITELY ARE BUYING ANOTHER ROVER. And, since this is the real world, the $10,000 I'm getting will be very useful in the meantime. We who own old vehicles are often accused of financial irresponsibility, but how else can you have the pleasure of owning a wonderfully unique vehicle, consuming plenty of ale and bangers at various pleasant British car shows, meeting (in person and on-line) a lot of very nice people, selling it for, well, not a fortune but still a little more than you paid for it, and -- in the final analysis -- having owned and driven a truck for nothing more than the cost of fuel, insurance, and maintenance? As a point of interest, I reviewed my records and find that the cost of driving the Rover for three years has been $0.13/mile for repairs, maintenance,and depreciation (the latter being negative depreciation, that is, appreciation), $0.15/mile for insurance (in Southern California!), and $0.09/mile for gas, for a total of $0.37/mile. In comparison, my last "new" car (a 1986 Merkur XR4Ti) cost a total of $0.53/mile. (Then again, my wife's 1986 Toyota Corolla, bought used at a very low price and virtually trouble-free for the last 65,000 miles, has cost only about $0.20/mile.) Has anyone else figured their cost per mile for their Rover? I'd be interested to hear. Sorry to use the mailing list for personal therapy, so to speak, but I thought that those on this list would understand my sentiments. And I hope you all won't mind me staying on the list, even though I will temporarily no longer be an actual Rover owner. Perhaps my continued ownership of a stack of LRO magazines, Rover books, miscellaneous spare parts, and a very greasy Haynes manual will continue to qualify me as a Land Rover owner, in spirit at least. Cheers! From holland@catapent.com (Shannon Holland) Sat Jun 10 14:14:36 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 1995 14:14:36 -0700 (PDT) From: holland@catapent.com (Shannon Holland) Subject: Real Hard Tops for Defender 90? I know this has been mentioned on the list before, but I'm interested in a real aluminum top for the US defender 90. I remember hearing earlier this year that 40 or so Defenders were shipped to the US with the aluminum top. I checked with our local dealer (San Jose British Motors) and not only were they completely clueless about aluminum tops they were rude/arrogant/stupid enough to make me decide that I didn't want to buy anything from them. (I've heard good reports regarding the San Francisco dealer, so I'll try there n next.) So, I was wondering if anyone knew anything more about the availability of metal tops? One thing I was considering doing was buying the standard soft top model (it is summer anyway!) and then ordering a real top from England. If I were to take this route I would also want to change the roll cage as well (to go for a completely external cage so as to protect the vehicle somewhat as well as the passesngers in the event of a rollover!). How hard would this be to do? Is it even possible (will the UK top fit on the US body?). Would I be better off buying the fiberglass top (and just hope I don't hit a tree and break it!)? Thanks for any input! I've been wanting to buy a land rover for some time now (recently went off-roading for a day in one in England) and have finally decided that I just need to actually get one! shannon From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Sat Jun 10 18:23 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 95 18:23 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Dead battry For some crazy reason, we decided to climb Humphreys Peak here in Arizona today. To get there you drive about 5 miles up a road to the ski area, then hike from 9500 to 12,600 feet in what is left of the snow (plenty for backcountry skiing). I foolishly left my headlights on the whole day. When we returned, the battery was DEAD. Since we were at the top of a long, downhill stretch of road, I had my companions push me to the road, and down I went. Still wouldn't start. I had to roll down in 4th for a mile, with the ignition on so the alternator would charge, before it finally started. Seems the battery was too dead to provide enough power for the ignition. I have never had this problem on any other vehicle. Usually the alternator can provide the power. Anyone know why? James From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sat Jun 10 18:39:30 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 95 18:39:30 PDT From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Kodiak heater All, My kodiak heater fitted on my parts Land ROver goes through the right side footweel where the right hand side pedal should go. I have a spare set of knobs for a kodiak. I have looked into fitting the kodiak into my SIII but I will have to cut the lower dash, something I don't want to do. The heater only has one wire coming out of the motor. Mark From maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Sat Jun 10 19:13:39 1995 Date: Sat, 10 Jun 95 19:13:39 -0700 From: maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest RE: Defender 90 vandlalism For day use, I take one or two of my dogs with me, which is quite a discouragement for car-jackers here in the states. Guarding the Land Rover is great sport for my canine rovers, who take to napping in the boot where they cannot be seen unless one gets up close to the vehicle. For overnight parking, padlocking the bonnet makes sense, but there doesn't seem to be any convenient way to do this. I trust that the veterans weld some type of hook to the bonnet and use a chain? >Date: 09 Jun 95 04:18:15 EDT >From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> [ truncated by lro-digester (was 36 lines)] >it just *might* not be the radiator... >Stefan >Then, how to make it look 25 years old....Hmmmm.... Just the way the Tunisians made "artifacts" when I was in the Peace Corps twenty years ago (had a diesel 88 while I was there, too). They'd take some "antique-to-be," beat it with chains or whatnot, soak it in olive brine and then bury it in the yard for a fortnight. The local kids were constantly trying to sell us lamps, coins, and other "Roman" bric-a-brac...until they realized that we spoke fluent Arabic and new the scam. Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From steve gross Sun Jun 11 08:26:19 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 95 08:26:19 PDT From: steve gross Subject: RE: Dead Battery For the alternator to produce output, the field winding has to have voltage applied from the battery. Usually, the residual voltage left in a partially discharged battery is enough to accomplish this. -steve From "S.Vels Christensen" Sat Jun 11 16:28:02 1994 Date: Sat, 11 Jun 1994 16:28:02 -0600 (CST) From: "S.Vels Christensen" Subject: Any Brazilian members on the list? Hi my name is Jacob from Rio - Sending from boroughed mail acc in Denmark. I will soon be hooked up on Net from Rio and would like to know if there are any land rover friends in brazil. Pls reply to the above address(Soren). Im a member of Dansk Land Rover Klub counting apprx 1000 members. Very interested in driving off road in Brazil. pls adv. owned a 109, but sold due to travelling. Looking in brazil for 88" petrol at! logo jacob greetings to my lr friends in australia as well. From David John Place Sun Jun 11 11:31:57 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 11:31:57 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Return of the Native If anyone has been trying to contact me in the pat three weeks please send your message again. I just returned from doing some disaster work for the American Red Cross and when I got home there were over 300 messages in my mailbox. I just had to delete them all and start fresh. I say a nice 88 Land Rover with a snorkel driving down Royal Street in the French Quarter of New Orleans last week. Is that one of the net members or does anyone know who owns it? Very few Land Rover products in New Orleans. Saw one Range Rover and the one 88 and that is it. By the way don't go to the Gulf in summer! 95 degrees and just as humid for the past 21 days. I am glad to get back to the 40 degree evenings here. Dave VE4PN. From JCassidyiv@aol.com Sun Jun 11 13:51:15 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 13:51:15 -0400 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Rusted Floor-board Help! I decided to see what the rust was under the driver side mat of my 1987 Range Rover and found two large rust holes. I know that I have to replace the front mud-flap mounts and replace the fittings with stainless and seal the nuts, but has anyone else undertaken this project(replacement of the floor-board)? Do any part houses offer a replacement piece or should I have the local metal shop cut me a piece of stainless to weld in? Thanks in advance for any help. John Cassidy P.S. You can see how the repair looks at the Owl's Head Rally. From vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Sun Jun 11 20:24:52 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 20:24:52 +0200 From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Subject: Re: Any Brazilian members on the list? On June 11th, this message was posted: >Hi my name is Jacob from Rio - Sending from boroughed mail acc in Denmark. I >will soon be hooked up on Net from Rio and would like to know if there are >any land rover friends in brazil. Are there actually *any* LandRovers in South America? Perhaps only on the Falklands / Malvinas? Two years ago, I spent my hliday travelling through Argentina and Chile, but I was rather surprised to see not a single LandRover. (As a LRO, I was, of course, watching for them). Many old Mercedesses, old DKWs, locally made Hillman Avengers, Toyota LandCruisers - but LandRovers? Have they ever been sold there? I doubt it. Bert Palte From "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Sun Jun 11 17:31:27 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 17:31:27 -0500 (CDT) From: "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Subject: Disco: LH to RH drive, possible ? Dear netter, is it possible to modify a LH Discovery (US model) to RH drive ? (Like the Series I~III models). Thanks for all responses, Paulus 1975 LWB Ser-III (ex mil) 1982 LWB Ser-III -- Paulus Suryono Adisoemarta Internet: yono@parokinet.org (Linux!) Petroleum Engineering Dept. paulus@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (NeXT!) U of Texas, Austin n5snn@mail.utexas.edu (?!) From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Jun 11 15:56:23 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 95 15:56:23 PDT From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Land Rover Series 16" wheels for sale All, I have one set of 16" wheels to fit series land rovers. $200 a set of four. Mark From "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com> 11 95 Jun EDT 1919 Date: 11 Jun 95 19:34:35 EDT From: "Anthony J. Bonanno" <75034.3062@compuserve.com> Subject: Series IIA Oil Pressure Gauge I finally gave up on finding a reasonable alternative for the electric sending unit for the Smith's Electric Oil Pressure Gauge that came on my 71 Series IIA 88. Rover's North wanted $ 140.00 (yes, that is ONE HUNDRED FORTY US DOLLARS) just for the sending unit. I decided to replace the gauge and sending unit with another brand. I wound up installing a mechanical 2-1/16" 0-80 lb Stewart-Warner in the same space that the Smith's occupied. I did a "forced re-threading" of the banjo fitting where the electric sending unit use to sit (near the oil filter) and using some plumbers tape ended up with a good leakproof compression fitting. I wrapped the mechanical gauge's nylon tubing in plastic "cabling" like you find in Radio Shack for protecting electronic wiring (to protect the tubing from abrasion and cuts) and snaked it up, around, and through the firewall to the new gauge. Looks neat and professional and it works well! Total cost about $ 50.00. Even though the engine has 120,000 on it, it idles at 30+lbs and cruises with about 40lbs according to the new gauge. The Smith's gauge use to show about 20 idle and 25 cruising (its been reading low like this for about 15 years). I'm fairly confident the Smith's gauge itself is okay (0-100 lbs black face with white numbers, backlit, etc.) as it will deflect full scale if grounded. I think the problem was always the sender unit. I threw the old sender unit in the trash. However, the gauge itself (with mounting bracket, light, etc.) appears to be in good condition (minor paint peeling on bezel), etc. I think the price of a new one is way over $100.00. If anyone could use my old one, I'd be happy to pass it on real cheap (how about $ 12.00 plus shipping). All for now. Cheers! Tony Bonanno, Santa Fe, New Mexico From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 11 95 Jun EDT 1919 Date: 11 Jun 95 19:59:21 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Misc Read a few more of the past couple of weeks digests, herwith a few comments: If I was a dealer I would be against the fitting of swivel housing gaiters, they spoil the sales of new housings!! I have seen swivel housings that have been covered with gaiters for twenty years that were still like new, Paul Nash / Andy Bottom ring groove on pistons.. Years ago the bottom ring groove was added so that on a worn engine oil copnsumption could be reduced by the fitting of the fourth ring. It is not recomended to fit the fourth ring, they starve the top rings of oil, leading to premature failure of the top rings. Mark Talbot Clogged radiator. The RR cooling system MUST be filled with inhibited coolant, usually good quality anti freeze contains inhibitors. If plain water is ever used, even for only a short time it picks up aliminium oxide from the cylinder head, a chemical reaction takes place with the copper in the radiator tubes which builds up a coating on the inside of the tubes, increasing the pressure drop in the rad and reducing the coolant flow. Eventually the tubes can become completely blocked. I am not aware of a suitable chemical treatment for the removal of the deposits that will not also remove the radiator tube as well. You can take the tanks off and physically scrape out the stuff but it is easy to puncture a tube. When you fit your new radiator ensure that inhibitors are always used in the coolant. S V Aurens Removing tight track rod ends - with the track rod removed from the vehicle, slide the clamp well back from the end, place the end of the rod, flat on a solid metal block with the track rod end overhanging the block, hammer the tube around the end, this has the effect of loosening the threads to enable the removal. David Brown also note that the track rod thread does not start at the end of the rod, there is about an inch of plain portion first to provide the clamping area for the clamp. At the National a bystander was badly injured during the recovery of a motor which was on its side, somehow the motor was pulled on top of him, he was taken to hospital, I have no newws of his current health. Regards Bill Leacock. From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 11 95 Jun EDT 1920 Date: 11 Jun 95 20:18:27 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: brakes The front brakes on 88 are 1 1/4 dia. so do not consider using a 1 1/16 dia on the front, I guess the 1/16 th increase on the rear would not upset the balance too much. Jim -- Overdrives I have used a Fairey overdrive on a 109 for 100,000 plus miles and on a 88 for a lot alsoincluding a lot of off road use. All on 7.50 tyres which are bigger than 205 x 16, they are really too small for the 109. I also use d the overdrive with 3.9 diffs and 8.25 x 16 tyres and a hi torque diesel engine for about 20k miles and the unit is still in use on a 109. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Sun Jun 11 18:12 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 95 18:12 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: RE: Dead Battery > For the alternator to produce output, the field winding has to have >voltage applied from the battery. Usually, the residual voltage left >in a partially discharged battery is enough to accomplish this. The oil pressure warning light just barely glowed, so it had some residual voltage. Does the alternator output increase when the battery voltage increases? The alternator seemed to charge the battery up to a point where the ignition would finally spark. I am glad I was on a long hill. I bought jumper cables today, because I have needed them twice in the last week. Once for me, and once for a friend. James From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Jun 11 23:29:17 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 23:29:17 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Rovers in _Congo_ Ben Smith reviews Congo... > So I just got back from seeing _Congo_ and there were 5 or so > scenes that included Land Rovers. Let's see if I can remember all of > them. Well... I think you got them all right. OK.. I'll admit it.. I saw it too. We had a choice. Congo or Die Hard 3 (or 22 or 47?). As the opening scenes unfolded in Africa, Sharon says to me "I know why you wanted to see Congo.. Just to see Land Rovers". > Scene at border crossing, green Series II or III 109 with full > canvas top is behind the characters' truck. The characters truck being a UNIMOG. > Overall, I enjoyed the movies immensely. Actually, I thought it stunk! Reeked, actually. OK.. the laser bit was neet, the natives singing was pretty funny, but things like the guy jumping from a plane using a square (parachute) and landing on his feet when he had never jumped before? Too many little things like that really spoiled it for me. So, what is this? Siskel and Ebert? Cheers Mike From Kelly Minnick Sun Jun 11 22:02:53 1995 Date: Sun, 11 Jun 95 22:02:53 PDT From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Tire RE:Tires Maybe I'm missing something. If I am, someone can clue me in. Large tire give a larger tire patch area. Smaller tires give a smaller patch area. Both tires have the same weight on them, so in some instances, the smaller tire (narrower) would have a higher psi loading and possibly better traction. Rubber compound has a big play here. How that rubber bites into sand, mud rocks, etc. I realize that a large diameter tire has a higher inertia and the moment arm is larger, but a smaller diameter tire is more prone to spin in the dirt than the larger diameter, eh? I think spinning off-road is where the axles break, not on the road. At any give speed, there is an associated HP required to keep the vehicle at that speed. With smaller tires, this translates back to a higher axle torque figure. I am assuming this by the fact that HP = torque X RPM. Also, most larger circumference tires have lower rolling resistence (i.e. ten speed bike tires). Does this make any sense or am I really off base? I haven't been using my dynamics too much in the past 7 years. Too busy blowing stuff up. Comment? Bombs? - I'll duck Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari & '91 RR Ridgecrest, CA From Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) 11 1995 Jun GMT 1922 Date: 11 Jun 1995 22:26:36 GMT From: Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) Subject: Re: Re: More Kodiak Heater Questions William, Thanks for the info. I think I'll try wiring a standard 20 amp resistor from Radio Shack into the low power lead from the regular Smiths switch & see how that works before I head off to a junkyard. Should have thought of that first. I've already got a coolant cutoff pull-switch for the heater and I think I can do without the fresh air cutoff. (I can see where it goes on the heater but the butterfly valve is missing on my unit.) That Kodiak motor really goes like hell! Thanks again, Fred - sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered). From Donald Abbot Mon Jun 12 09:33:32 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 09:33:32 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Donald Abbot Subject: Re: Dead battry On Saturday James Howard said: > I foolishly left my headlights > on the whole day. When we returned, the battery was DEADFrom dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Mon Jun 12 11:57:56 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 11:57:56 +0200 From: dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Subject: Re: Any Brazilian members on the list? >Toyota LandCruisers - but LandRovers? >Have they ever been sold there? I doubt it. I was in Costa Rica (Central America) last December on Holiday, and I saw quite a few older Series Land Rovers. They were all 88 hardtops. I did not see any 109's or any newer Rovers for that matter. However, the most common vehicle by far was the Toyota Landcruiser from the early models to the latest ones. -David 1989 90 Turbodiesel Hardtop. From Spenny@aol.com Mon Jun 12 06:35:39 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 06:35:39 -0400 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Return of the Native Dave, Having lived in New Orleans, I found that the easiest way to cope with the Gulf summers was to stay out really late, eating cajun food, listening to that amazing New Orleans music and drinking refreshing beverages, like the Jello shots at Cooter Browns. Did you ever eat at Mother's restaurant? That was a block from where i lived, & breakfast EVERY morning what a city! How did it handle the flooding? Spenny From Andrew Grafton Mon Jun 12 11:52:06 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 11:52:06 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: re: overdrives + 7.50x16 tyres = ? Re : Overdrives and 7.50 x 16" tyres on a 109" I know that this isn't the best way to answer a question like this, but all the people I know with overdrives on 109's use 7.50 x 16 tyres. The main causes of overdrive failure appear to be running it without oil or using it in too low a gear, not the 7.50x16's. I'd imagine that 109"s with the factory fit o/d option came with 7.50's fitted. With reference to fitting larger tyres (like 9.00x16" or something) - it is undoubtedly true that the transmission on a LR is capable of handling as much continuous torque as the power of the standard engine can provide, for example chugging uphill smack in the middle of the torque curve with your foot to the floor [or driving a 2.25 diesel anywhere :-)]. >From the transmission's viewpoint, for that kind of use it wouldn't really matter what size tyres you have as long as they fit in the wheelarch! What eventually breaks transmissions is unusual or transient loads, e.g. driving in 4wd on pavement, spinning a wheel off road or hitting a big bump which can momentarily reverse the load direction through the drivetrain. Here, the size, weight and grippiness all play a part. Ultimately, I have to agree with Charlie - don't worry about small changes like an inch or two in diameter or tread patterns, but think about your strategy if you want to put monster truck tyres on your beast! (what transmission did the 'forest Rover' have fitted - the one with the tractor tyres?) Only my opinion. Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From Andrew Grafton Mon Jun 12 11:23:31 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 11:23:31 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Piston rings on 2286 diesels Amazing response on this one... So here are the findings. Q : To fit or not to fit the bottom (skirt) scraper / oil control ring on a 2.25 diesel following a rebore/new pistons job? A : Don't. Deprives the top rings of oil, leading to premature wear and failure. Run the engine until it starts to burn excessive oil (70-80K miles?) and then fit the bottom 'oil control' ring and new top rings before planning a rebore at 100-120K miles. Fitting the rings from 'new' dramatically reduces engine life. Or that's the theory! I've had a number of detailed responses based on years of experience with these engines, most of which agree on the above. I won't be fitting the rings on this rebuild. Thanks to all those who advised. All the best, Andy From Charlie Wright Mon Jun 12 12:15:17 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 12:15:17 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Tire On Sun, 11 Jun 1995, Kelly Minnick wrote: > RE:Tires > Maybe I'm missing something. If I am, someone can clue me in. Large tire > give a larger tire patch area. Smaller tires give a smaller patch area. > Both tires have the same weight on them, so in some instances, the smaller > tire (narrower) would have a higher psi loading and possibly better traction. I thought the question was about diameter of the tyre, not width. That's what I based my mutterings on, anyway. > the moment arm is larger, but a smaller diameter tire is more prone to spin > in the dirt than the larger diameter, eh? I think spinning off-road is where > the axles break, not on the road. I think that (in the real world, not my greased-sheet-of-glass) most axles break as the tyre spins and slips, then grips suddenly... over and over= BANG. Or is used to pull out tree-stumps with a large Perkins conversion and under-rated axles... > At any give speed, there is an associated > HP required to keep the vehicle at that speed. With smaller tires, this > translates back to a higher axle torque figure. I am assuming this by the > fact that HP = torque X RPM. Hmmm, I'd have to think about that a bit. Assuming you are right in your formula, at speed='A,' HP is constant, say 'B'. That means that torque X RPM is constant, yes? If you've got smaller tyres, you'll be winding up the revolutions to go the same speed ('A'). Best I can figure, at higher RPM's, you'll see lower torque while keeping the HP (speed) constant (by your formula). Having said that, my dynamics are pretty much limited to getting Drosophila from one bottle to the next these days, so I won't guarantee my musing either... Charlie From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 12 95 Jun EDT 1908 Date: 12 Jun 95 08:51:28 EDT From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: D90 Tip Tip for D90 Owners... for a problem you may not have but might at any time. Saturday I parked outside while I was doing some work in my shop. It also happened to be the day when seeds were dripping like crazy from the area trees. A bnunch of crud ended up on the fenders and (yes) in the air intakes on the fenders. Crud on the fender I can live with... Crud in the mechanics, I cannot! Solution... unscrew the grates, cut some window screen to fit the bottom of the grate and reinstall... Presto, no more crud in my intakes. Total cost... Nothing. But now the mosquitos are coming into the house through the holes in the storm door ;-( Cheers, R. P. Reid From Russell Burns Mon Jun 12 6:39:35 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 6:39:35 PDT From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Rusted Floor-board I have noticed that the Floorboards of my 91 R-Rover are usally wet. I remove the carpet, and prop up the rubber sound deadner and allow it to dry out from time to time. The moisture is usally from snow off boots. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 90 D-90 > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > the local metal shop cut me a piece of stainless to weld in? Thanks in > advance for any help. John Cassidy From Mike Rooth Mon Jun 12 14:56:11 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 14:56:11 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: smoke diagnosis Charlie, Dont think there ever was an Oily Wadders List of Do's and Donts.IMO its long overdue.Trouble is:A)Even the magazines coyly shy away from anything diesel(a fact I've just written to LRO to complain about),and:B)When anyone on the list *does* effect a cure for their ailments,they dont seem to actually *tell* anyone. Mind you,I'm beginning to suspect that there's no easy cure for oil burners. >From what I've seen,most,if not all diesels shove out a gout of smoke on starting.If in decent nick,thats it, no more. Black smoke=injectors. I tried Wynn's Injector Cleaner in mine with little effect, since I aint getting *black* smoke which it says on the can its a cure for.I also suspect I ought to have used the "remedial" dose,instead of the "maintenance" dose.Basically this is *two* cans instead of one in a tankful.Or a third of a tankfull to increase the concentration,then drive it until nearly empty.At #4.50 a can its the cheap try. Also tried twiddling the pump timing with some effect,slightly less grey smoke,slightly poorer performance uphill *in cold weather* but when it got warmer(remember,blink and you missed it) uphill performance got *much* better.Better,in fact than it had ever been,which leads me to suspect the thermostat. I've got this nasty feeling that to improve things drastically, it will be necessary to do the following. New/recon injectors. New timing chain. New dist pump timing gear(SOD of a job,even the Manual says so). Set up timing a la Workshop Manual. Things I'm 99% certain are OK:- Compression, Valve guides/seals. Comments,anyone? Mike Rooth PS Dont forget *indirect* injection engines.Not direct injection. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Jun 12 08:39:05 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 08:39:05 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: rebuild in progress - small brake question In message <199506100807.DAA18191@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: lso > just happen to have a brand new pair of wheel cylinders from a 110, > courtesy of a friend. The 88" brakes use 1" diameter cylinders, but > these new ones are 1 1/16". Other than that difference they bolt right > in and fit perfectly. So should I use them? Careful there. Larger wheel cylinders require higher volume master cylinders. You may find youself needing to quickly pump the brakes to get brake pressure if you go to a larger dia wheel cylinder and use the old master cylinder. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From Duncan Rose 12 1995 Jun U 1916 Date: 12 Jun 1995 16:23:40 U From: Duncan Rose Subject: Re Directional Tread Hi, applying a bit of probability science Theory : Set the tread direction for the FRONT-NEARSIDE becasue : In the UK, if tyre failure occurs due to wear (although v-unlikely!), and all other things being equal, it is the front nearside that experiences the most stress. This is because of those things called roundabouts, where all weight is placed on that corner. Duncan A D Rose Yellow Eagle RV / Range-Rover running gear / MT's / 40DFI5 / | | __________| | | ______||\\| /_________ | | _____ ||//| _/ _____ \ |_____/ / ___ \ ||\\| |__ / _ \__\__________/_/ _ \_\_| -- | (_) | '---' | (_) | \____/ \____/ From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Mon Jun 12 09:19 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 09:19 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Re: Dead battry On Saturday James Howard said: > I foolishly left my headlights > on the whole day. When we returned, the battery was DEAD. Since we > were at the top of a long, downhill stretch of road, I had my > companions push me to the road, and down I went. Still wouldn't > start. I had to roll down in 4th for a mile, with the ignition on so > the alternator would charge, before it finally started. This will happen if you have capacitance discharge ignition. On the good old points/coil system it should start right away. The CDI unit requires power from the battery before it will fire. What vehicle and ignition system do you have? It is a Series III. The PO replaced the points with an Allison electronic ignition in 1977 (I have the receipt). It uses the origianl coil. If this happens again, I guess I should pull out my spare distributor that has the points in it to get it started again. That is, unless there is a long hill again. James From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Jun 12 09:52:11 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 09:52:11 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Found the 109 overheating problem! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Found the 109 overheating problem! Hello all, I had mentioned an overheating problem with the 109 (running right below the "red" area all the time.) and was directed to check the thermostat, and then the radiator. After ordering, receiving, and installing a new thermostat, I checked the old t-stat, and it opened in hot water just fine. So, I decided to remove the radiator to have it "rotted out". After I removed it, it still weighed a bit much, and even with all the fluid drained, it still had a sloshy sound when shaken. In other words, there's water trapped in it, therefore, something is really plugged up with it! So, it's in the back of the Acura, and I'll be taking it to the radiator man today... #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From john@oaty.com (John Grant) Mon Jun 12 10:56:57 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 10:56:57 -0700 From: john@oaty.com (John Grant) Subject: Re: RR A/C, Heater, & Fog Machine > if I just pin the flap in the fresh >position? Waddya think? Huh? >From personal experience I can say that it works fine. Actually I can't remember what life was like *before* the valve broke. Anyway, last week I was in a really smelly area and I wished that I'd replaced the valve - can't win ! John From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Jun 12 13:32:46 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 13:32:46 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Adding to the "hit from the rear" thread... FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Adding to the "hit from the rear" thread... Hello, I just thought I'd throw in my "hit from the rear" story... Within the first 2 weeks of owning my 1970 Land-Rover 109 I was hit in the rear twice! The first time, I was in Maine, parked along the road writing a postcard to a hopeful girlfriend in Phoenix Arizona (where I live) (this was the second day I owned it!) when the person behind me pulls out, leaving behind his headlight and turn signal! I got out to look, and there was NO damage to my truck. 25 years old!!! They don't make 'em like they used to... The next time, was after I returned home in Arizona, I was stopped, when **BANG**!! The Mazda pickup that was trying to swerve around me hit me hard enough to half-way close the sliding window of the LR. I was "a *little* more than *pissed*", especially when I saw the damage to his truck which was now stopped right next to my drivers door. His fender, and part of the grill was destroyed, a 1 inch tear about 2 feet in length in his fender, and I could see the entire top of the tire while looking down at it! I got out to assess the damage to *my* rig, (not really being overly concerned with his Mazda) and *slammed* my door. When I looked at mine, my anger turned into laughter, and I literally started laughing when I saw that there was *no* damage to the LR. Not even a scratch! A *very* slight indentation could be felt along the galvanized edging along the rear corner, but that was all! Knowing that he was at fault, and that he'd get a ticked if reported, I offered him the choice of calling the police, exchanging names and phone numbers, of just saying "good day". He choose the latter... I love this truck! But I couldn't help wondering what this would have done to the LR Discovery... Surely not as bulletproof as the Series IIa! Dave (whiplash) Brown ;-) #=====# #========# -------,___ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500) (Tough rear end!) (Too hard to "draw") P.S. I'm "working" on my temper too! Usually not hot-headed! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Jun 12 14:44:37 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 14:44:37 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Thanks! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Thanks! William, Thanks for the input! When I first received the new track rod, I thought that maybe the old one was good since they *both* weren't threaded to the end. Then when I actually removed the old one, the threads are really warn down, and in fact the tie rod end threads were really warn to match. So.... I need to place an order for new tie rod end(s)... (May as well get both!) I'm thinking of ordering them from the UK as they are FAR cheaper than the US, and I need a swivel ball for the 109 as well. (Also, all the front axle seals, swivel seals, and pinion seals for both the 88 and 109.) Any recommendations on who to order from in the UK? Who would ship to the US? I also want some "white spoke" wheels for the 88, and can't locate any in the US. Thanks, P.S. The radiator from the 109 flows fine. My overheating must be somewhere else! I'll try to "see" how it flows after I reinstall the radiator, and then check out the vacuum advance unit. Any more suggestions? (My timing light is broke n, don't know what's going on there...) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Mon Jun 12 20:33:30 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 20:33:30 GMT From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Subject: Re Directional Tread It was written >Hi, applying a bit of probability science >Theory : Set the tread direction for the FRONT-NEARSIDE becasue : [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >stress. This is because of those things called roundabouts, where all weight >is placed on that corner. On the subject of tire failure due to punctures, I have heard that flats most often strike the right rear tire. The explanation is that traffic, assisted by the roadway curvature, brushes the road debris to the right edge of the roadway, and then your right front tire runs over the nail or screw or whatever and flips it up on end so it can puncture your right rear tire. Perhaps this is relevant to the tread direction question that was being discussed. From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Jun 12 18:37:24 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 18:37:24 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: My Rover Is Almost Sold -- And I'm Sad > Has anyone else figured their cost per mile for their Rover? I'd be > interested to hear. Well, not for the various Rovers, but I did it once for a Dodge Dart I put many miles on.....neglecting gas and oil, but including insurance, registration, inspections, AND original (used) cost, it was $0.04/mile. That included, by the way, a $125 needless expense for a valve job/head regrind (on a 318 V8) and the $48 (needed) subsequent expense for a timing chain and gear. Now, add the guzzoline, and we're into the teens of cents per mile. Actually, did this once for comparison....wanted to know how many miles I would have to travel in my guzzler dart before the $/mile figure, including cost of the car and insurance, etc. would approach that of of something a tad more expensive and better on gas...my bmw, for instance. I think it was something like 20K miles, which I do in a year regularly, so I decided that going upscale could actually pay off quickly provided one drives enough. YMMV, especially those of you who really shell out for petrol. To bring this conversation back to roverdom, let's ask a simple question: IF: I bought a D90 (don't worry folks, this is a hypothetical question), and let it be a used one, for somewhere around $20K (and not a dime more, dammit), and if said D90 earned itself 14 mpg on average (vs. a mere 11 mpg for daNige), and assuming I neglect to get collision on the thing so's insurance is more or less comparable (until I go for those vintage plates), and assuming I pay for service 'cause the thing is still under warranty and I don't care to void it (so's no matter how you cut it the maintenance costs are comparable or worse)......THEN: how many miles do I have to drive it before it "pays for itself" (vs. Nigel). OK, it's an oversimplification, but the $0.03/mile on gas goes this far: ($20K-2.3K)/$0.03=590K miles. Now, consider adding collision and matters get worse.....and whatta hell makes you think that D90 is gonna go 600K miles, anyway? OK,OK, I can hear the grumblings....but please note, I've done this for a used D90 at today's realistic used selling price-a bargin price, I might add.....I could'a done it for a 4.0 SE..... Ohhhhhhh. I hear you. You wanna know how much time I would have saved by driving that 90....well, let's assume it takes 20% longer to get there in my SII, and that your D90 will do, on average, 45 mph (not unrealistic, in fact probably overly optimistic, 'specially in these parts)......thus that 590K miles would have taken 13.11K hours (546 days of Ben Smith driving) in a 90, or 15.73K hours (655 days) in Nigel, for a difference of 2.62K hours (109 days-no folks, this wasn't planned....Nigel is an 88). BUT, let's not forget, I was smiling during those 109 days AND had that many more opportunities to meet all those fine young ladies who regularly flock to my tailgate to "stroke the canvas", so to speak. And one of those fine young ladies may just turn out to be RICH! no, not Rich Ziegler, rd/nige From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Jun 12 18:53:04 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 95 18:53:04 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Swivel Pin Rebuild... (fwd) > If you buy a swivel pin rebuild kit, be a bit careful. As I recall, the snip > I had the kit for my '66 88 and found it wasn't suitable and ended up buying > all the individual bits. The one I got for Nigel ('60 SII 88, with the track rod attached to the steering arms on TOP of the swivel housing rather than below as on IIa and IIIs) worked just fine. Sorry, don't have the part number handy, but it came from RN (for about $100 or so). You will require a hefty press or get someone to install the babies for you (into the swivel pins themselves). Replacing those old worn out spring and cone setups with the Railco bushes made ALL the difference in the world (and I did try new springs and cones first). do it, rd/nige From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 12 95 Jun EDT 1917 Date: 12 Jun 95 17:58:14 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? > After all,how many Land Rovers do you see with > a horizontal front wheel due to swivel pin failure? > Cheers > Mike Rooth One - Gunther's old 110 (beefed up with a 6-cyl. VM Turbodiesel @ 160 bhp), after accidentally jumping a sand dune in Algeria. Negotiated 15 meters in free flight and came to a very abrupt and hard landing in soft sand. When Gunter got out he stood on his front left wheel lying next to the drivers door... the bottom swivel pin had sheared right off. They got out of there and made it 3,000 miles back with an incredibly ingenious makeshift fix-it. If the details interest you, the whole story was covered in a 1991 autumn edition of LRO magazine - it also shows Markus skiing (with real skis) down a 100 ft. dune in the Grand Erg. So: Swivel pins may be very strong indeed, but they make a lousy landing gear... (Tread lightly - and touch down easy!) Cheers, Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 12 95 Jun EDT 1917 Date: 12 Jun 95 17:57:43 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Tires on a 109 205 R 16 tires on a Series 109 look crap. In fact, they even look crap on a RR. On a S.III 109, 235/85 is the way to go - looks good, feels good, and they're unstoppable off-road (I'm talking out of own experience). In low ratio you still have more than enough torque to turn those things. In high ratio, with the "modest" power of a 4-cyl the only thing you'll ruin is the nerves of the drivers behind you, but certainly none of your drivetrain components, not even w/overdrive - provided you use the OD as an extended 5th gear for on-road cruising *only*, as it is intended (YMMV, naturally). Remember, the S.III 109 is fitted with a Salisbury rear axle, and that thing *doesn't break* - take my word for it. Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 12 95 Jun EDT 1917 Date: 12 Jun 95 17:57:58 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Disco: LH to RH drive, possible ? > is it possible to modify a LH Discovery (US model) to RH drive ? > (Like the Series I~III models). It is possible, yes. But... You'll need additional extra parts at a value of several K $, and you'll be working on that beast for weeks. Same goes for the Series BTW, except that you could get most parts needed 2nd hand. The amount of work involved is punishing (just think of the relocation of all the wirings and electrics #-| ). Quicker - and possibly even cheaper - : Sell the LHD and buy a RHD. Or keep the LHD and enjoy being different... Stefan From Sanna@aol.com Mon Jun 12 19:54:32 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 19:54:32 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: RR A/C, Heater, & Fog Machine Well, I did it. On Sunday I tore the dash out of the RR, found the fresh/recirc (took a while - the manual shows you what it looks like, but not where it is), and then strapped the thing open with a cable tie. Now I'm just waiting for the first rain. I'm still wondering how this is going to affect the A/C. Someone on this board said that the A/C works in recirc only. From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 12 95 Jun EDT 1922 Date: 12 Jun 95 22:39:16 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Split rims Split wheel rims were used by the army on some Landrovers in the 50's and early sixties. They came in 2 sizes. a 4.5 inch for 600 tyres and the Austin champ rim 5.50 inches for the 7.50 tyres. Many people like them because they think that punctures are easier to repair, I don't agree. They were discontinued because a) many idiots released the clamp nuts whilst there was still pressure in the tyres and b) the studs are prone to breaking with disastrous results. If the nut rusts to the stud the stud will often shear when the nut is tried to be released. Take my advise and scrap them. I Mitchell The rear wheel bearings are lubricated by oil from the rear differential, if the oil level in the diff is low oil will not carry over to the bearings. Drive flanges are a common cause of oil loss. The front bearings are lubricated by oil from the swivel housings and again the drive flanges are a common cause of oil loss as is the swivel housing seal. regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Mon Jun 12 21:57:07 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:57:07 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Dead Batteries J. D. Howard writes with problems about a dead battery and an alternator not charging: Alternators need a small voltage to "tickle" or excite the field before it'll actually "put out". If well and truly dead, the alternator can be tickled with a lantern battery so that it will start producing from the frist revolution, rather than waiting for a miles-long downhill run. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Mon Jun 12 21:56:58 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:56:58 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Burglar deterrents Stefan wrote about the misfortune of one owner: >I understand he's already inquired if they could get him a big fat Rattler >or Viper to leave in the back of the vehicle overnight. Many years ago, I met a couple of chaps touring America by Land-Rover. They had painted "British Trans-America Herpetology Expedition" on the vehicle's doors, and if the inner-city louts were too ignorant to grasp the meaning of 'herpetology' a sign in the rear window read "CAUTION: LIVE SNAKES" in bold lettering. They reported no problems, even on New York streets overnight. (Brings to mind the "space cadet's" 109 Carawagon with all those radioactive symbols and that weird instrumantation.) *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From David John Place Mon Jun 12 23:08:32 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:08:32 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Return of the Native Well Spenny, the city didn't do too well with the flood. The water didn't stay in the houses very long but it was long enough to wreck many of the floors and wet all the beds, rugs clothing in closets etc. This was a class 5 on a scale of 1-5 Red Cross disaster. I was surprised to see so few Land Rover products. I would have thought with the salt air that aluminum bodied vehicles would have been pretty popular. I went to Miss Jean's and Flame in the quarter and Holywood. Great music. Dave VE4PN From johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Tue Jun 13 05:40:55 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 05:40:55 GMT From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Subject: Fabric Doors On Rover Thought I'd pass on an interesting modification I have seen recently. A local Series III 88" that is used for very heavy offroading (e.g., yearly Rubicon runs) is run with soft top and minus door tops. It used to have regular aluminium door bottoms. Recently the owner removed the aluminium door skins (I don't know why -- maybe they were damaged) and replaced them with tautly stretched olive green canvas. The canvas is folded over the door frames and held in place with riveted metal strips. The result matches the faded green paint very nicely -- I saw the Rover at least twice before I ever noticed the fabric doors -- and has a curiously funky look. Hardly stock, but then again this Rover also has a lift, all fenders cut out to fit 33" tires, ARB lockers, winch, and copious dents. Neiher is it terribly crashworthy, I suppose, but Jeeps (excuse me) run with soft doors all the time and anyway you still have your seat belt and the door frames to keep you in the truck. Now, maybe you could also have a zippered, roll-up panel in the door fabric for added ventilation on those 110 degree days in the Southern Calfornia desert. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Jun 12 23:38:32 1995 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:38:32 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Fabric Doors On Rover John Y. Liu writes: >Recently the owner removed the aluminium >door skins (I don't know why -- maybe they were damaged) and replaced them >with tautly stretched olive green canvas. The canvas is folded over the >door frames and held in place with riveted metal strips. This must be the 88" Series III owned by British Pacific in Burbank. I saw it in Hayward last weekend. The canvas --like all canvas-- is shrunk onto the door by watering it. >matches the faded green paint very nicely Probably was painted to match. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Mr Ian Stuart Tue Jun 13 08:11:25 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 08:11:25 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: re: overdrives + 7.50x16 tyres = ? >..... what transmission did the 'forest Rover' > have fitted - the one with the tractor tyres? I don't know the actual sizes, but the one that's a couple of hours up the road from me has tyres that reach the waist-line - anyone want to measure it? ;-) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Personal -- From Mr Ian Stuart Tue Jun 13 08:34:34 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 08:34:34 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Swivel pin rebuild -- advice? > After all,how many Land Rovers do you see with > a horizontal front wheel due to swivel pin failure? SeveraFrom Mike Rooth Tue Jun 13 9:31:31 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 9:31:31 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Split rims Hang about a minute,Bill.Your front wheel bearings may be lubricated by oil from the swivel housings,but mine certainly arent.There's no connection between the housings and the wheel bearings,which are grease lubricated. Cheers Mike Rooth From rrudder@rain.org (Robert) Tue Jun 13 01:34:39 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 01:34:39 -0800 From: rrudder@rain.org (Robert) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest lists From Charlie Wright Tue Jun 13 11:11:37 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:11:37 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Re Directional Tread > It was written > assisted by the roadway curvature, brushes the road debris to the right edge > of the roadway, and then your right front tire runs over the nail or screw > or whatever and flips it up on end so it can puncture your right rear tire. > Perhaps this is relevant to the tread direction question that was being To complicate things, I'm taking this from U.K. to U.S. shortly, so I'll have to reverse the calculations (and take round-abouts out of the figures) when I ship it anyway. I think the original suggestion that I just put the spare on 'inside out' was probably the most accurate. Charlie From 13 95 Jun EDT 1907 Date: 13 Jun 95 07:13:07 EDT From: Subject: Not Kodiak Heaters Croeso, The following excerpt is from "Land Rover Series One Club Newsletter" and I thought it might be of interest. Referring to the Smiths round heaters. "If you examine the maker's plate on the side of your heater you should find an official rating figure. This will consist of a number (probably '2' in the case of a Morris Minor heater, same as Land Rover) followed by the letters 'MB'. On old heaters, 'MB' was used to measure the output in the same way that 'HP' (for Horse Power) measures the engine output. 'MB' actually stands for 'Mouse Breath', so the output of a 2MB heater ought to be the equivalent of two mice breathing hard on your knees." Since no mouse can breath continuously, do they actually mean that 2MB equals one continuos mouse breath - or is it in reality the output of two pairs of mice breathing alternately - and is it possible to tell the difference? After all, no reference is made to the optimum distance between the mouse's nostrils and the driver's knee, and bearing in mind the air conditioning in a Land Rover, it would need very sensitive equipment to tell the difference between a single heavy breathing mouse or a whole regiment of them panting in anticipation of an orgy! R 1 3 H +--|--| FWD | 2 4 L '55 Series One Glenn From Carl Byrne Tue Jun 13 12:18:47 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 12:18:47 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Oil seals and 1949 80" Does anybody have any experience with the semi-floating axle fitted to pre 53 LandRovers. I have a 1949 80" and the near side (the longer half-shaft!) oil seal on the rear axle keeps leaking regardless of what I do. All the obvious has been done:- * new leather type seal fitted - I have also tried modern neoprene seals * there is no wear groove in retaining collar and the surface is very smooth (ground) * a new bearing has been fitted * the drain holes in axle hub are clear * the axle breather is clear * I have even tried lowering the oil level in axle * I refrain from parking the vehicle on a camber. My brother has a similar vehicle and he too has the same problem on the longer half shaft. I do about 5000 miles a year so it is not a pampered vehicle and this problem is begining to really bug me. I am even thinking of fitting a later fully floating axle. I believe that this must be a common problem and if so there must be a recognised cure. Any pearls of wisdom???? Regards Carl 1949 80" 1995 Discovery 300 TDI Dr. Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From Easton Trevor Tue Jun 13 08:04:00 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 08:04:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Batteries and Ignition James Howard wrote about his experience with a dead battery. If the battery is totally dead neither a kingston or CD ignition will work. Only a magneto which uses permenant magnets to generate the field will start. (No batteries on lawn mowers, chain saws etc) Similarly the alternator won't work either because it has no field. Because there was a residual voltage to drive the field then rolling down the hill enabled the alternator to gradually build up some potential in the battery and because it was a CD ignition it could generate a spark at lower voltages than the points ignition. Back in my college days I can remember using a couple of lantern batteries to provide enough juice for the ignition to start the E Type (Morris E series) and avoiding the major expense of a new battery for months. Next time (But you won't do it again . Will you?) disconnect the coil for a while during the initial charging "roll out" then you'll save the power until your ready to reconnect and try again. As a caution, remember that as you roll along in gear with no ignition you're filling your entire exhaust system with explosive mixture. A good recipe for split mufflers when your finally start. Trevor Easton - Miss Golightly - 1962 SWB SW From Stephen Thomas 13 95 Jun GMT 1913 Date: 13 Jun 95 13:39:09 GMT From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Dave's IIa, and those that follow it. Dave I think that the way your IIa distracts those that follow it really goes to show what a really eye-cathching vehicle you must have, obviously it's a real stunner. However I'm not so sure that the (somewhat dubious) adulation which it appears to be receiving, and the obvious pride that you feel as a result, should close your eyes to the possibility of damage which is a little less than visible. I know how strong the chassis on our IIa's are, but impacts of the kind you describe can conceivably lead to twisted or compressed chassis rails; and although it was very charitable of you to be concerned about the possibility of the other driver getting a caution, maybe just taking his details in case you find chassis damage would be a good idea? On a somewhat lighter note, the whole problem can be sorted out by changing the stop light switch in the brake line, worked for me :). We should have our IIa back by the end of the week, with a recon 2.25 diesel. We towed it up to the place with our friends DIY IIa V8 hybrid, and some people say that *diesels* are noisy......sheeesh! Stephen From Easton Trevor Tue Jun 13 09:10:00 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 09:10:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: FW: Storage - in a bag... There was a thread recently about long term storage. This was forwarded to me and may be of interest. Personally I prefer to use my vehicles not keep them in bags, but needs must prevail. ---------- From "Tom Rowe" Tue Jun 13 08:06:51 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 08:06:51 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Split rims Bill Leacock wrote regarding his disdain for split rims. I have them for my lightweight and I do two things. 1) make sure the valve core is out before breaking them; 2) put NeverSeeze on the threads (as I do on my lug studs). That way I don't blow my head off beaking the rim apart, and the studs don't rust. NeverSeeze is the best anti-seeze compund I've found, but make sure it's the real thing, there are immitations out there. As far as idiots breaking the rims with air in them, I believe in personal responsibility. I've been seriously hurt in the past by various endeavours, but most of the time it was my own carelessness, I don't expect anyone else to be responsible for me. So I guess to each their own. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Four wheel drive allows you to get trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Brian Neill Tiedemann Tue Jun 13 23:41:04 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 23:41:04 +1000 (EST) From: Brian Neill Tiedemann Subject: bearings... Hi all, Just a note to query a comment i read in yesterday's list. In discussion about wheel bearing lubrication, Bill Limey mentions diff oil and swivel housing oil being the providers.... My question: in my RR manual (and Haynes) there is mention of grease packing bearings during hub assembly. I have done this on separate past occasions for the front and rear bearings.... is this different to LR? Also, the swivel ball seals (rubber) are packed during assembly with grease... again from manual(s). The seals did _not_ leak for a very long time with lots of mudding up then washing, but have just lately started to weep a little (since last front diff+swivel oil change). Note that the bearings are still completely exposed to the swivel or diff oil, just packed with disc brake type wheel bearing grease as well. Do you LRO's use grease too? Any reasons why not? My thoughts of why it is done have only come to the heat generated by the disc/hub assy. during braking. (cf. drum..further from friction+heat to bearings). Also (i think) grease may be a bit better for high pressure lubrication?? Doesn't seem to be any clash of compatibility between EP gear oil and the grease tho, it stays greasi (so far). Another sideline, this Salisbury diff line of Qs ive been flying... Has anyone made their own locker for same...I have started to make up one using orig. sized axles (24 spline 1.25") but now am toying with the idea of 31 spline 1.5" axles (it's a ford spline). How hard do you (I) have to try to break a std. axle or strip a drive flange? Think its worth the extra $$ and hassle? (must use larger stubs to fit an axle this thick plus broaching gears and flanges etc. not to mention the axles themselves) I want it to break NEVER but is this too much?? So far the standard stuff seems OK and is a vast improvement over the stock (spiral bevel) rover diff and toy 10 spline axles. Seeya (no time for mobile sig.....##@$* exams!) Leaks but I luv it. 77 RR Brian. From William Terry Tue Jun 13 09:57:38 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:57:38 -0400 (EDT) From: William Terry Subject: was Re. Brazilian Landy owners now LR in Latin America I spent a month in Costa Rica in Dec - Jan. The most common vehicle I saw was LR. I did see lots of LCs, but I think there were more LRs. Like the previous observation, most were 88s. I did see some 109SWs out in the country. Also many of the LRs were Santanas. The LRs came in almost any color imaginable. And while I'm on the subject... In "Congo" there also appeared to be a military LR with a form similar to the SAS/Pink Panther (though the green version). It was only a glimpse of a wing when the main characters' Unimog is stopped by a military contingincy and Amy, the gorilla, is discovered by a soldier peeping under the canvas. ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiney things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton From kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Tue Jun 13 15:05:00 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 15:05:00 UTC From: kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: D90 Security (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions I park my 94 D90 (of which a cost per KM was not part of the purchase rationalization process--or I would still be driving my '84 Volvo) outside in downtown Ottawa. The biggest security risk is Kids trying to hotwire it, Prostitutes using it as a place of business and bums using it to sleep. To counter this I had an alarm installed (yes, I know they are annoying) which has all the doors and the hood wired and a motion sensor inside in case one of the drunks can't figure the door out and unzips the cloth top and climbs in. In order to reduce the annoyance to my neighbours I have a two stage alarm which gives a warning chirp for light impacts and jolts--reducing false alarms by allowing the sensitivity of the main alarm to be turned down. It also has an ignition kill so that it is terribly difficult to hot wire it once the alarm has gone off. The company who installed it said that they would be surprised if someone could hot wire it anyway---there was so much steel under the dash that they had to be a contortionist to do the wiring. They also said it was the most difficult install they had ever done--there is nowhere to hide wiring on the inside of the Rover. So far it has only gone off twice--and I haven't found any damage (or used condoms)! Bill From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Jun 13 10:30:09 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 10:30:09 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: correction BANTER ALERT: Next 68 lines Oi, I dug myself into a deep one here.... In my haste to get to the point of the post I neglected to consider my reasoning and lost track of those units-a mistake that sifts out the D's from the F's in 'merican schools. I'll blame it on all the 90 weight I've been drinkin'. What can I say? Pretty sad for a guy who aced Differential Equations 17 years ago.... Let's go through these calculations again, shall we?.... IF: [(purchase cost of a 90) + (maintanence of a 90) + (insurance of a 90) + (guzzoline of the 90)] = [(purchase cost of Nigel) + (maintanence of Nigeboy) + (insurance for Nige) + (guzzoline of daNige)] AND, assuming: (insurance of a 90) = (insurance for Nige), (maintanence of a 90) = (maintanence of Nigeboy), and that I don't incur any costs whatsoever resulting from the tragic occurances upon the vehicles of others due to the dreaded "Nigel's Disease" (sorry folks, I just cannot bear the responsibility), AND, given: (purchase cost of a 90) = $20K (purchase cost of Nigel) = $2.3K THEN: ($20K) + (guzzoline of the 90) = ($2.3K) + (guzzoline of daNige) or, $17.7K = (guzzoline of daNige) - (guzzoline of the 90) Now, (and this was where I really blew it badly)- SINCE: cost of (guzzoline) = (gallons used) x (dollars/gallon) = (total miles) x (1/miles per gallon) x (dollars/gallon) AND: the total miles for each are the same (ie Nigel can go anywhere the 90 can go), Nigel gets about 11mpg, the 90 around 14mpg and the current rate for gas in the northeastern US is roughly $1.35/gal THEN: $17.7K = [(X miles) x (1 gallon/11 miles) x ($1.35/gallon)] - [(X miles) x (1 gallon/14 miles) x ($1.35/gallon)] solving for X......(like you really care) $17.7K = $0.1227X - $0.0964X, X = 17.7K/.0263 X = 673K miles (that I'd have to drive a D90 to break even on the investment) Check my math-I didn't give jack for consideration to significant figures...'tis that kind of thing that separates the As from the Bs in 'merican schools.... And I'll leave it to you Europeans to figure out how high the cost of petrol has to go before you can do it in under 100K miles. Now, assuming it takes 20% more time to get there.....and that I'll meet 20% more women on the way.....and that the D90 will be doing 45 mph on average all day long every day while I'm over there checking them out....then, then...... You got the message, though, rd/nige From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 13 95 Jun EDT 1908 Date: 13 Jun 95 08:35:42 EDT From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Split Rims The split Rims were also used on Military Rovers for a long time after they were discontinued on Civilian models. Even late Series III Lightweights had split rims. Reason is that they are easier to repair under arduous conditions. I have them on my Military and they are fine... I keep my offroad unidirectional tires mounted on them. Deflate completely before disassembling *and* remove the valve insert. That ensures that you will not have a rim fly off when you unbolt it. Hope this helps, Cheers, R. P. Reid From NADdMD@aol.com Tue Jun 13 11:30:12 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 11:30:12 -0400 From: NADdMD@aol.com Subject: Brakes In the LRO FAQ, it states that oil on the inside of the wheel indicates the inner oil seal is bad and and therefore, the brake is bad as well. I don't understand how a bad inner hub seal will cause the brake on that wheel to be bad as well. Any explanations? I'll mention that my right rear wheel ('67 SIIa 88") has old oil on the inner aspect but that the brakes seem to function very well. Nate Dunsmore Boring, MD USA NADdMD@aol.com From lenagham@bachman.com Tue Jun 13 13:29:08 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 13:29:08 EST From: lenagham@bachman.com Subject: Rust Dissolvers There was an article in the latest copy of the Land Rover Owners International magazine about a test on 2 products that dissolved rust. One product was called Corrodip and the other POR-15, does anyone know if these products are available in the U.S. ? The Corrodip product also received a very good write up in the first edition of Land Rover World. Thanks Mike From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Jun 13 10:32:01 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 10:32:01 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Offer on the Discovery... FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Offer on the Discovery... I've been offered $28,250 for my 1994 Land-Rover Discovery, black, LOADED (leather, dual air, dual sun roofs, rino bar, rear guards, 7 seats, tinted windows, etc...) 16,600 miles. So.... What do you think? Should I take it and be done with it all? After all, it's not appreciating any while I wait... Please reply ASAP. I'll probably call him back Tonight or Tomorrow... Thanks, Dave (perplexed) Brown #=====# #========# -------,___ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500) (Too hard to "draw") #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Tue Jun 13 16:26:06 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:26:06 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Broken Studs on Exhaust The center top stud for the exhaust manifold is sheared off in the cylinder head and needs to be replaced. Same thing has bappened with an exit stud on tbe front exhaust pipe. Anyone know the prescription for getting these things out? Do I drill them? Blast? Take it to Midas? Chris Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIA 88" SW BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland, USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From JCassidyiv@aol.com Tue Jun 13 17:11:54 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:11:54 -0400 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Air Filters For all those who want to let their Disco's and Range Rovers breathe easier, the folks at Rover's North just sent me the K+N air filters which fit. The Discovery takes the #33-2625 filter which is originally for a Porsche 944 turbo. The filter for the Range Rover is #E-2350 which is originally for a Fiat X-19. K+N has no specific listing in it's catalog for Land Rover products and my local dealer had no idea what would fit. In case you don't know about the K+N filters, they are good for 100,000 miles and need to be cleaned, not replaced! Cheers! John From Leland J Roys Tue Jun 13 14:23:46 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 14:23:46 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: 94 Defender 90 Hello All, This is my first time asking a question so I hope I did this right. I just purchased a new 1994 Defender-90 I love the truck (already been in the mud). I do have one question. After 4K miles (In 3 weeks of ownership) A clanking sound started "after" shifting into 1st gear. I say after becuase it happens only after the truck starts to move forward in 1st. It seems as though the differential has not completely engaged. Also when I first bought the trcuk I had problems with the differential gearshift slipping out of high 4 weel drive. I would be driving along the freeway and I would suddenly lose power, and would find that I was in neutral (diff neutral). Does anyone know if this is normal? Leland Roys roys@cup.hp.com Cupertino California From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Jun 13 15:53:30 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 15:53:30 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Air Filters In message <199506132113.QAA21655@butler.uk.stratus.com> writes: ; For all those who want to let their Disco's and Range Rovers breathe easier, ; the folks at Rover's North just sent me the K+N air filters which fit. The ; Discovery takes the #33-2625 filter which is originally for a Porsche 944 ; turbo. The filter for the Range Rover is #E-2350 which is originally for a ; Fiat X-19. K+N has no specific listing in it's catalog for Land Rover ; products and my local dealer had no idea what would fit. In case you don't ; know about the K+N filters, they are good for 100,000 miles and need to be ; cleaned, not replaced! I don't remember which list had a thread on foam filters, but I think it was the Triumph list..so here goes. We had a big discussion on the effectivness of foam filters & someone in the group worked for a company that made a study on earth moving equipment and the effect of foam verses paper elements. The company wanted to go to foam and save the high cost of constantly replacing clogged paper elements. I believe K&N elements were used in the study as representing the best foam filter elements. Bottom line is that the foam filters let in a LOT more dirt particals than the paper did resulting in the earth moving equipment needing to have engines rebuilt after a lot fewer hours. It was more cost effective to frequently replace paper elements than to frequently clean foam elements. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Jun 13 16:04:01 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 16:04:01 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: 109 cab forwards I was looking in the back of the Rovers North catalogue and noticed that 109 cab forwards went into production about 1962. Does anyone know if any were officially imported to the US?? Anyone know if a slightly disassembled pre-1966 109 cab forward might have any problems getting into the US or getting registered in the California? I was thinking of a rolling chasis with bed attached minus front body & engine? Anyone know where the ID numbers are on a 109 cab forward? Just wondering TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From chris.youngson@deepcove.com Tue Jun 13 16:20:08 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 16:20:08 From: chris.youngson@deepcove.com Subject: RUST DISSOLVERS With regards to rust dissolvers: Oxysolve, availible at most tool places, is the sames stuff as the one you mention. It leaves a coating of zinc phosphate. It takes a long times to rust in the outdoors. I have a gallon of this stuff. If you wants faster more thorough results use muriatic acid, just make sure you do it outdoors and neutralize the acid with a water/baking soda wash afterwards. This is what I use most of the time because it's cheap and sometimes I don't want a zinc coating. 73 Chris Youngson, West Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Tue Jun 13 19:25:53 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 19:25:53 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Nigel's Disease, again Okay gang, we gotta get something straight...no more talkin' about things that break down, fall off or go bump in the night. No sooner did someone mention that their electric oil pressure sending unit failed that *mine* packed in. Crimony, only 201,000 miles on it...hardly broken in. I know that the resistance for the fuel sender is 3 to 35 ohms; any idea on the range for the pressure sending unit so I can scrounge a replacement? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Tue Jun 13 16:11:56 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 95 16:11:56 PDT From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: 94 Defender 90 >From: Leland J Roys >Subject: 94 Defender 90 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] >roys@cup.hp.com >Cupertino California Mine doesn't do it. The only time it has ever slipped out of high was during a really long downhill run, after a day of driving in 4 lo. I just assumed I hadn't got the transfer case selector fully engaged in hi. Enjoy. The only real problem I've experience so far has been that the attention the D90 receives from others (cute blonds excepted of course) gets a bit annoying after a while. I'm thinking about getting a FAQ printed up to hand out at stop lights and parking lots. It's not a Jeep. It's not a Hummer. It's a Land Rover Defender. It's made in England. Yes, that is the same company that makes Range Rovers. It's a 3.9L V8 and, yes, the mileage does suck. No,the bumper and winch aren't stock. No, much less than $50K, about $30K. No, it's not lifted, it comes with these tires stock. Yes, it's great off road, noisy on road. etc......... -Rick '94 D90 Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Jun 13 16:55:13 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 16:55:13 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: 109 cab forwards TeriAnn Wakeman writes: >I was looking in the back of the Rovers North catalogue and noticed that >109 cab forwards went into production about 1962. Does anyone know if any [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >getting registered in the California? I was thinking of a rolling chasis >with bed attached minus front body & engine? Anything 1967 and before will have NO problem. In fact, up to 1970 will have no problem except for petrol models requiring the addition of an PCV valve in an air hose from the valve cover to the carburetor air intake. For 1971 and 1972 petrol models ad a carbon canister, an air hose from the petrol tank to the carbon canister intake, and an air hose from the carbon canister output to the PVC valve. Diesel models have no requirements until 1974 or so. Of course 1968 and later petrol models will require biannual SMOG inspections. So TeriAnn, there are NO excuses not to get one or more! If you like Forward Controls, you may also want to look into Unimogs. :) >Anyone know where the ID numbers are on a 109 cab forward? Probably on the front of the frame like the 109 or 88. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Jun 13 17:33:20 1995 Date: Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:33:20 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Brakes Nate Dunsmore writes: >In the LRO FAQ, it states that oil on the inside of the wheel indicates the >inner oil seal is bad and and therefore, the brake is bad as well. I don't >understand how a bad inner hub seal will cause the brake on that wheel to be >bad as well. Any explanations? The oil on the inside of the wheel is coming from the inside of the brake drum, after leaking there from the center of the hub where the seal to the axle is. As the oil leaks out it drips onto the drum, spins around, and attaches to the brake shoes facing the drum. Oil on the shoe surface against the drums is not recommended for obvious reasons, and very hard to clean even if caught early. >I'll mention that my right rear wheel ('67 >SIIa 88") has old oil on the inner aspect but that the brakes seem to >function very well. In fact your brakes have been FAILING in imperceptible degrees. Every time you use them they are a little worse! With oil on them they are more than a little worse each time. Your foot brake pressure is getting harder bit by bit and your leg is compensating without telling you. Your braking distance is getting longer each time without your consciousness recognizing it. And, you are not observant enough to tell yourself what is happening. What may be fooling your senses too is the fact that the front brakes are engaging first and stronger, doing more of the work than the rear, and helping you control steering in braking action. The rears are just tagging along and helping out. I will tell you, if your right front instead of your right rear had this insidious problem, you would know it! Your left front would grab more than the oily right, and your steering would be affected... WHAMMOO! One hard jab at the brake petal and you'd be in the left lane with oncoming traffic!! Hello Gabriel! Do us all a favor, work on ALL your brakes real soon. One leaking seal may indicate that the others are on the verge of destruction also. And, check out the inside of your drums and brake housing, it won't take long to pop them off, just take off the wheel and the two screws to the drum, nothing to it. Tread/Brake Lightly! Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Craig Murray Wed Jun 14 11:49:00 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 11:49:00 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 109 cab forwards > I was looking in the back of the Rovers North catalogue and noticed that 109 cab > forwards went into production about 1962. Does anyone know if any were > officially imported to the US?? I was thinking of a rolling chasis with bed > attached minus front body & engine? I don't know why you would want a 109" Cab over, as they were very quickly superseeded by the IIB 110" Cab over, which was a vast improvement of the 109". The IIB has a stonger axles, a better gear linkage arangement and so on. Some one I know has a IIB with a perkins Diesel in it, and it is a pretty good machine. But make sure you do not get a cab over with a 2.25 diesel, as they were only ever sold in England, and have been described as DANGEROUSLY underpowered. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From PAUL.NASH@AG.ausgovag.telememo.au Wed Jun 14 13:22:16 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 13:22:16 +1000 From: PAUL.NASH@AG.ausgovag.telememo.au Subject: Holden conversions & Canberra spares I have _finally_ bought another Land-Rover, to replace the sIII diesel that I had to sell when I left home. I haven't actually got my grubby paws on it yet (I should be able to fetch it tomorrow), but I drove it on the weekened, and have started living again :-) It's a sIII 109 5-door, with a Holden 202 (about 3,3l 6cyl) engine and a 5-speed gearbox. Everything seems well maintained, and it goes like a rocket. However, I'm going to have to do some work on fixing the little bits and pieces that aren't quite the way that I want them. Of course, I'm going to need lots of parts in the future (if my diesel was anything to go by). Do any of the Australian list members know of a decent source of series Land-Rover parts in Canberra? Or people nearby who do mail-order stuff? Any ideas on what gearbox/transfer case is likely to be fitted? It has a standard five-speed pattern (5th opposite reverse), but the transfer box has a straight shift between 2H-4H-N-4L. The whole assembly looks about the same size as the genuine article, and has the transmission brake, but does not have the nose-piece for the front drive shaft (it has a long front prop-shaft instead). As a result of the different gearbox, the speedo under-reads by about 30%. Other than re-painting the face, is there any easy way to re-calibrate it? I suppose that I _should_ try to replace the drive gears in the gearbox, so that the odometer works correctly as well. I really should make up my mind about wheels when I do this, as it currently has 15" wheels with massive tyres (about 31"), and I am quite tempted to revert to 16" wheels and mud tyres. The rolling radius is probably not very different, though. Anyway, I'm probably more excited than I have been since I arrived in Australia, and can't wait to get it out into the bush, and travel again. -- Paul Nash internet guru and all-round nice guy South African in exile in freezing (and tidy) Canberra, Australia From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jun 14 02:38:02 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 02:38:02 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Rust Dissolvers Mike asks about rust dissolvers... > One product was called Corrodip and the other POR-15, does anyone > know if these products are available in the U.S. ? I think I saw an ad for POR-15 in Hemmings Motor News once. I don't have a copy handy so I can't say for sure though.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Craig Murray Wed Jun 14 16:37:11 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 16:37:11 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: bearings... > Just a note to query a comment i read in yesterday's list. > In discussion about wheel bearing lubrication, Bill Limey mentions diff > oil and swivel housing oil being the providers.... > My question: in my RR manual (and Haynes) there is mention of grease > packing bearings during hub assembly. Yes you are meant to pack them with grease, but they are still lubricated by the oil in the swivel housings, and the diff oil in the rear. > Another sideline, this Salisbury diff line of Qs ive been flying... > Has anyone made their own locker for same...I have started to make up one > using orig. sized axles (24 spline 1.25") but now am toying with the idea > of 31 spline 1.5" axles (it's a ford spline). How hard do you (I) have to > try to break a std. axle or strip a drive flange? The only time I have heard of a Salisbury diff breaking, is when some one in LROCV, who has a 253 Holden V8, Range Rover Suspension, with a 110 Salisbury in the rear with a Maxi Drive diff lock, and Super Swampers was climbing up a rocky hill,the mounts for the sway bars wedged up against a ledge, and the wheels had really good traction, and the diff broke, but the amount of strain on it at the time, I don't think any thing would have survivied. Also the only time I've heard of a Salisbury axle breaking, was in a Series III with a worked 202 and detroit locker, climbing up a 35 - 40 degree hill, it bounced up in the air, and the driver kept the foot down, so he had 2 ton of Land Rover trying to drive up a very steep hill on one wheel, with a very powerful motor, and the axle broke. If you want an unbreakable rear end, I think the closest you will get to it is a Salisbury with a MacNamara Diff Lock with a Hypoid Diff fitted, that would be very hard to break!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jun 14 02:38:14 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 02:38:14 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Broken Studs on Exhaust Chris Stevens has stud questions.... > The center top stud for the exhaust manifold is sheared off in the cylinder > head and needs to be replaced. Same thing has bappened with an exit stud on > tbe front exhaust pipe. Anyone know the prescription for getting these > things out? Do I drill them? Blast? Take it to Midas? Removing whats left of the stud involves drilling out the center of the stud and using an "easy-out" to extract the remains. Not the easiest thing to do and unless you are very careful you can bugger up the threads in the hole. If you don't feel that brave, then your best bet is to take the head to a competant machine shop and have them do it. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Mr Ian Stuart Wed Jun 14 08:06:30 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:06:30 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: 109 cab forwards > So TeriAnn, there are NO excuses not to get one or more! If you like > Forward Controls, you may also want to look into Unimogs. :) If you're into Forward Controls, you go for a 101! I've only seen them stopped by two things - the wrong gear for the hill and resting on it's nose crossing a ditch. These things are as close to unstoppable as you can get :-) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Personal -- From Charlie Wright Wed Jun 14 11:40:01 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 11:40:01 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Air Filters On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > ; For all those who want to let their Disco's and Range Rovers breathe easier, > ; the folks at Rover's North just sent me the K+N air filters which fit. The [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > elements were used in the study as representing the best foam filter elements. > Bottom line is that the foam filters let in a LOT more dirt particals than the > TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling I don't know what sort of K&N filters they were using, but they are not the K&N I've used for years. The K&N I'm familiar with are a cotton gauze between layers of wire mesh. They are oiled with a light oil which traps the dust and dirt particles. They can be washed with a special filter cleaner to remove gunk and oil (carefully from inside only), and re-oiled. They are the filter of choice amongst all the crowd I know in the BMW CCA. They are free breathing and very effective at particulate capture. I don't know who does 'foam' filters, I have one on my lawnmower. Having said that, none of these cars get off road, so I don't know how they cope with heavily loaded dusty air. I can't imagine they would fail to filter, but I can imagine they would clog eventually. Charlie From Charlie Wright Wed Jun 14 11:52:45 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 11:52:45 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Brakes Do us all a favor, work on ALL your brakes real soon. One leaking seal may indicate that the others are on the verge of destruction also. And, check out the inside of your drums and brake housing, it won't take long to pop them off, just take off the wheel and the two screws to the drum, nothing to it. Yes, do that. But, Michael, I must disagree. "Nothing to it"? That assumes that a clever PO used anti-seize or copper-eze. I wish. I had to get the largest puller in the free world to get my last set of drums off... and I thought for a while that I was about to lose an arm if it let go. A bottle of propane, a rubber mallet, and a lot of skinned knuckles later.... free at last! Charlie From "Tom Rowe" Wed Jun 14 07:26:52 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 07:26:52 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: K&N air filters, 2MB heater TerriAnn wrote of a study stating foam filter's are harmful. From what I've read that's partly true. I looked at a study in one of the off-road mags years ago that compared paper, foam, oil bath & maybe another. Ranking in best to worst at beginning of service life was : oil bath, paper w/oiled foam cover, paper, foam. I can't remember exactly how it changed as they aged, but oil bath stayed near the top and ones with foam got better. Apparently as the foam collects dirt it filters better, but it has to be oiled foam. As for the K&N, I don't know about the one's RN sells, but the one I use on my 2BB Weber is an oiled paper (not foam) element that can be cleaned and reoiled. I wanted to use my oil bath filter, but I never got around to having an adapter made. On the subject of the Kodiak heaters and the mouse breath rating; I loved the explanation, one of the best I've seen on the list and I believe it's pretty accurate, based on my experience in VT & WI. Unfortunately I think my mice have emphysema. Cheers, Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Four wheel drive allows you to get trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "David McKain" Wed Jun 14 09:17:31 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:17:31 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Tie rod ends I'm in a slight bind. I need to replace a tie-rod end on the driver side wheel. I checked the LR web site which has an extensive list of replacement part numbers to no avail. Does anyone out there know of a number for a replacement part other than Rovers North and the like? The vehicle in question is a 1966 SIIa SWB. Additional news - I painted the tropical roof, door tops, and rear door and the beast is together finally. It's a bit of a hassle to worry about whether it is going to rain anytime during your trip. Now I just have to get out the whip so I can train the new door seals to stay in place. David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From Charlie Wright Wed Jun 14 14:14:35 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 14:14:35 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Ford conversions I recall something (dated now) in the archives about someone (in Austin, TX?) looking into the Ford 4.0 litre V6 from the Explorer and mating it with either a series box or the Ford Automatic to the transfer box. Any more information on this idea? Did it/will it work? Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Wed Jun 14 09:52:59 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 09:52:59 -0400 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Rust Dissolvers LANDROVER@delphi.com (Michael Loiodice) writes: >I think I saw an ad for POR-15 in Hemmings Motor News once. I don't have a >copy handy so I can't say for sure though.. I do have a copy handy - Nov. 1992 - from when I decided I wanted to buy a Land-Rover. (And figured I'd have it in a couple of weeks or so...HAH!) Anyhow there is as ad in it for POR-15 gas tank sealer. I assume it's the same manufacturer so here's the info: POR-15, Inc. PO Box 1235 Morristown, NJ 07962-1235 1-800-45-POR15 FAX: 1-201-887-8007 Usual disclaimers apply. I'd never even heard of the stuff until now. Let me know how it works, I might have a go at a little spot on my door tops. Rgds. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From William Terry Wed Jun 14 10:01:56 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 10:01:56 -0400 (EDT) From: William Terry Subject: Re. foam filters Actually, K&N filters aren't foam. They're oiled gauze. Foam filters are only as good as the size of the air passages which usually aren't that tiny. Also, over time the foam dries out, crumbles and gets sucked into the carbs. The guaze used in K&Ns is finer than foam. In addition, the oil, just like in a Series LR, catches stuff trying to get by. K&Ns need to be cleaned and reoiled regularly. I use them in my Lotus and did in my TVR when I had it. They work great, freer flowing than paper elements and better filtering. I would never use foam filters, personally, but K&Ns or good paper elements are fine for me (preferably the K&Ns). Peace, Bill ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiney things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 14 95 Jun EDT 1910 Date: 14 Jun 95 10:00:48 EDT From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: '94 D90 Clunks Leland Wrote >> After 4K miles (In 3 weeks of ownership) A clanking sound started "after" shifting into 1st gear. I say after becuase it happens only after the truck starts to move forward in 1st. It seems as though the differential has not completely engaged. Also when I first bought the trcuk I had problems with the differential gearshift slipping out of high 4 weel drive. I would be driving along the freeway and I would suddenly lose power, and would find that I was in neutral (diff neutral). >> Does anyone know if this is normal? Like their predecessors, Land Rover D90 Drivetrains *do* clunk now and then if you are not careful with the clutch. Usually, it's only in first or when you are al low revs and the engine starts jerking near stall. However, the losing power and jumping out of high makes it sould like a trip to the dealer (don;t you love warranty's) is in order. My D90 has been perfect... and I love it. Congrats on the purchase!!!! Cheers, R. P. Reid '62 IIa Military '56 Si Fire Engine '94 D90 From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 14 95 Jun EDT 1910 Date: 14 Jun 95 10:00:36 EDT From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Forward Control TerriAnn: There should be no problem bringing a pre '68 vehicle into the U.S. I understand, BTW, that the customs regulations are changing so that now *any* vehicole more than 25 years old can come in as a classic or antique. That will mean Series III's and the V8 Forward Controls will be importable soon!!!!! The 110 Forward control is the one I want... We had one of these on a trip in West Virginia and it went into a mud pit that stopped even the D90's in about 20 feet. The driver plowed through like he was on a highway. He stopped half way through (at which point we all gasped, knowing we were 5 miles from a road and that there was *no* way to extricate the huge, heavy stuck vehicle). The driver leaned out the window and yelled "Just Kidding" and put it back into gear and drove on out of the other end of the pit like nothing was there. There was mud up *over* the tires. Unbelieveable vehicle!!!!! Cheers, R. P. Reid From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 14 95 Jun EDT 1910 Date: 14 Jun 95 10:00:50 EDT From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: '94 D90 Security Bill: I always found the best security was a Harley Davidson bumper sticker and a large, *empty* Holster left in full view on the seat. An empty speedloader nearby makes a great statement as well. Judging by a lot of the LR owners I know, anyone who messes with a Land Rover (especially an old one) has a death-wish, anyway. Cheers, R. P. Reid From kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Wed Jun 14 15:00:00 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 15:00:00 UTC From: kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: Winches for D90's (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions I have been looking into winches for my 94 D90. Rovers North charges close to $800U.S. for a Warn 9000lb winch, and $600 for the Defender mounting kit. Do I need the mounting kit, or is it just for looks? Can I just bolt (or even weld) the winch right to the bumper or does the mounting kit actually fasten it to the frame? Does anybody have any lower cost winch solutions? Thanks in advance, Bill Kessels kesselsb@ey.geis.com From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Jun 14 11:12:25 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 11:12:25 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: IIa vs. III Greetings evryone! Being new to the digest and Rovers as well I thought I'd just jump right in with some questions. I'm in the market for a "Series" Land-Rover. I've been told by some that in general the Series IIa is "better". One of the reasons I have been given for this is that the IIa transmission is easier to repair due to the fact that some or all of the gears are removable from their shafts, and that on a III each shaft is all one cast piece, which would have to be replaced in its entirety, which sounds like an expensive proposition to say the least. So what costs more, dropping in a couple of new shafts on the SIII, or dismantlig the entire thing on a IIa? Also then there is the question of Synchro vs. non? It looks like the later IIa's have full synchro, so does this mean they have the same one piece gearshafts as the SeriesIII? Am I going batty or is this stuff actually important to consider? Does anybody else have any facts/opinions about which Series is a better choice; diesel vs. petrol; 109 vs. 88; etc... Series one is sort of out, too old for me, too scary with that Gas tank hangin out. It's gotta be a daily driver too. OK thats it, thanks all! David R. Bobeck, Exhibit Specialist, US Holocaust Museum, Washington DC USA Nothing yet but soon, very soon. dbobeck@ushmm.org *PS* If you've got any leads, let me know, I'll travel to VA, MD or PA to check it out if it sounds good. From Russell Burns Wed Jun 14 8:13:37 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 8:13:37 PDT From: Russell Burns Subject: Range Rover winch I finaly put my winch to good use the other day. I found it was the perfect tool to levitate the trusses for my barn. Trying to handle 24 foot two story trusses with two to three people can be a chore. A little engineering, a ramp, a winch, and presto 21 trusses levitated to their proper places. Once the barn is in place, I should be able to house some older Rovers.... (just don't tell my wife) Russ Burns 94 d-90 (getting bumped, and painted) 91 Range Rover From Jeff Gauvin Wed Jun 14 10:06:31 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 10:06:31 MDT From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: Defender-90 Tire Rub Normal? I purchased a new '94 Defender 90 Hardtop just over two months ago. I've put about 4200 mostly highway miles on it and am pretty happy so far. Sure, there have been a few "niggles" like missing or broken fasteners here and there, and a few things have needed adjusting, but nothing major, and everything has been taken care of under warantee and with out question. BTW - best highway mileage so far was almost 18 MPG (65 MPH and no headwind). But, since the day I drove it out of the showroom I've noticed a rather disturbing "grinding" noise when the steering is at full-lock left. Well, last night I figured out what was causing the noise. When on a flat surface with the steering at full lock left turn, the inside-rear of the left front tire rubs against the radius arm. The tires are the stock BFG Mud Terrains on the "freestyle choice" alloy wheels. Is this tire rub normal? The right tire doesn't seem to rub at full lock right. What limits how far the wheels can turn, anyway? A potential explanation is this: given that the Panhard rod is tied to the frame on the left, as the suspension travels downward the axle will shift to the left and increase the left side tire-to-radius-arm clearance and decrease the right side clearance, so the right is given more initial clearance than the left. Of course, the situation is reversed when the suspension travels upward... If this is not normal, how should it be fixed? Of course I'll have the dealer do the work, but I want to be sure that it is fixed properly. I'm going to do my first "real" offroading this weekend when I drive over Medano Pass to the Sand Dunes (Colorado, USA). The Forest Service says there is a lot of mud and the stream crossings are pretty deep :-) Thanks in advance for your help! -- Jeffrey J. Gauvin email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com Symbios Logic Inc. Voice: 719-573-3563 1635 Aeroplaza Dr. FAX: 719-573-3824 Colorado Springs, CO 80916 From JCassidyiv@aol.com Wed Jun 14 12:37:01 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:37:01 -0400 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Re: Air Filters --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Air Filters From JCassidyiv@aol.com Wed Jun 14 12:38:21 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:38:21 -0400 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: Air Filters-reply to twakeman I'm pretty sure that the study didn't use K+N because K+N are not foam filters-they are "quality oiled cotton gauze sandwiched between layers of wire screen." The filters need to be oiled and this in turn allows them to trap very small dust particles. The average foam air flow rate(as listed on the K+N package) is 376cfm which includes the Amsoil and Unifilter. A new K+N filter, by comparison, has a rate of 88cfm(a used K+N with 42,000 miles was 463cfm), and a paper filter(new) of 508cfm. I have a Ducati motorcycle in which I placed a K+N filter without hesitation and all my fellow riders due as well. Many competitive off-road racers use K+N filters with excellent results. I'm not sure if they're rebuilding their engines any sooner, but I suppose that they can afford too. All I know is that everyone who uses them experiences an increase in horsepower and I myself have found an increase in gas mileage as well(which is a welcome state of affairs with the V-8 engines). With a Flowmaster muffler and K+N air filter on my Chevy p/u truck, the mileage went from 14mpg to 19mpg. I can't argue with that. I'd be interested to see what experience other members of the list can share with us-thanks for your input. Cheers! John Cassidy, Bangor, Maine From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Jun 14 10:13:56 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 10:13:56 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: 109 cab forwards In message <199506140707.CAA22037@butler.uk.stratus.com> Mr Ian Stuart writes: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > > So TeriAnn, there are NO excuses not to get one or more! If you like [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > hill and resting on it's nose crossing a ditch. These things are as > close to unstoppable as you can get :-) A 101 would be ideal, but as far as I know a 101 can not legally be imported into the US. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From Pat Guerin Wed Jun 14 08:59:09 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 08:59:09 -1000 (HST) From: Pat Guerin Subject: Re: '94 D90 Clunks I guess I noticed the same thing but I realized that it was probably my fault as I sometimes do not shift as well as I should....I love the car to death and look forward to many happy miles.....aloha From holland@catapent.com (Shannon Holland) Wed Jun 14 12:59:54 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 12:59:54 -0800 From: holland@catapent.com (Shannon Holland) Subject: D90 Accessories I'm getting pretty close to buying a new Defender 90 and have a couple of questions regarding some of the accessories. 1. The "Engine Protection Plate". I presume the purpose of this is to protect the engine from obtrusive rocks, etc. The dealer I'm working with lists this at $579.00 Is this worh getting? Can I get the same thing elsewhere later for less and install it myself? 2. Lamp guards. I see only rear lamp guards listed (for a mere $295.00!). Can you get front mesh style guards as well? Is this another item that I'm better off getting elsewhere? 3. Any other accessories people would recommend? Thanks for any info. Hopefully I might have a new vehicle by the end of the week! shannon From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Jun 14 16:08:26 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 16:08:26 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Air Filters-reply to twakeman > to 19mpg. I can't argue with that. I'd be interested to see what experience > other members of the list can share with us-thanks for your input. Re: K&Ns......I have seen them completely caked with mud, dust, hay seed, etc on the OUTside yet sparkling clean within. Positively the most impressive air cleaning element on the market (providing it is well lubed with a suitable oil....a quality 30 wt. 2-stroke oil works just fine). I like 'em so much we use 'em on the '39 9N. rd/nige From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 14 95 Jun EDT 1916 Date: 14 Jun 95 16:55:44 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Copy of: Re:Front wheel lube. ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From usssbkpy@ibmmail.com Wed Jun 14 17:55:18 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 17:55:18 EDT From: usssbkpy@ibmmail.com Subject: D90 and others .... Hello, all, I've been receiving and reading through the digest for the past few months, and have a few contributions to make: 1) To: Leland J Roys Re: 94 Defender 90 NO - the clanking is not normal - have it looked at. I just had a similar noise problem fixed, which came up after a weekend trip to Cape Cod over the sand. It turned out that (according to the dealer) the emergency brake was rubbing against the rear drums. This caused the vehicle to sound as through something were still engaged when rolling forward in neutral. However, my 90 has never dropped out of gear, in either high or low diff. 2) To Stephen O'Hearn <72700.3262@compuserve.com> Re: D90 Rear Seal Leak Thanks for the tip - I had mine in the shop when your note appeared on the digest. I faxed a copy of it to the mechanic, and they found that my rear seal was indeed leaking. Fortunately, they were able to take care of it while the car was in the shop. A most timely tip - many, many thanks !! 3) To: Pierce Reid Re: LR Gun Box price (from last month) I just received a flyer from Rovers North. They are discounting the LR gun box to $350.00 through 6/30/95 - a bit cheaper than $405.00 4) To anyone who can help: My "significant other" has a 93 RR County, which has been having a problem with the engine *surging* when we're sitting at idle. I've had the boys from LRNA out to look at the problem twice (and they're coming again next week), but they can't seem to discover (no LR pun intended) what the problem is. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate hearing from you ! This is a GREAT forum - thank goodness I can get Internet mail onto my mainframe (well, someone still has to be a "big iron" bigot ....) Regards, +-------+ | BSROA | -- Paul +-------+ | #======# |+--+| \ |+--+|---\___ | _ |D90|_ |} * * * ==(_)"""""(_)"" From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Jun 14 16:36:17 1995 Date: Wed, 14 Jun 95 16:36:17 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Copy of: Re:Front wheel lube. In message <199506142103.QAA23004@butler.uk.stratus.com> "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" writes: When I first read your posting I disagreed untill I made a drawing. It does look like there is a tenuous pathway through the inside of the stub axle to the inside of the freewheel hub sealed to the wheel mounting flange. This cavity is open to the outer bearings. The felt seal keeps the oil from going to the outer section of the freewheel hub and out to the outside world...hopefully. Assuming oil levels are high enough, it would take a long time for the oil to flow to the inner wheel bearing and I suspect that oil shouldn't be relied upon for lubercation. If you rely upon splash to get the oil into the stub axle I do not see anything to force oil into the housing or to propel it along the axle to the other side. My IIA white workshop manual says to stuff the hub with grease. When I get back from Europe and mount the swivel housing on the left side, I'll add 90 wt to the swivel housing & see if the level is high enough to flow down the stub axle housing. Just had a thought. If one were to puncture the upper part of the seal going between the axle housing and the swivel housing, it should allow any pressure buildup to go up the axle breather and not out the bearing seal Any thoughts? : RE: Copy of: Re:Front wheel lube. : : I beg to differ. Oil from the swivel housing passes along the front outer : quarter shaft into the wheel hub through the stub axle bore. Early vehicles : had : a lubrication hole in the drive flange for oil to be added but this was : discontinued. Service sheets do not show grease to the wheel bearings. Many : folks use grease when the swivel housing seals deteroirate and the oil is : lost. TeriAnn Wakeman .sig closed for remodeling twakeman@apple.com From "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> 14 95 Jun EDT 1922 Date: 14 Jun 95 22:28:54 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> Subject: 94 Defender 90 Transfer Case Never had problems with the transfer case popping out. Kind of sounds as if the shift lever is allowed full motion. Maybe an adjustment problem? I'd look in the workshop manual but unfortunately I don't have it with me right now. - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | 72700.3262@compuserve.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Thu Jun 15 15:16:55 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 15:16:55 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: ET progress report My old 88" still doesn't have a name. In the decade it's been in the family nothing ever stuck. Let's just call her 'ET', after her plates (ET3168). If that's good enough for old FVJ it's good enough for ET. Anyway, progress has been slow but sure: Brakes - Bill mentioned that the 88's front wheel cylinders are 1 1/4". Well spotted, they are indeed. So the new 1 1/16" cyls have gone onto the rear end. Going up a 16th on the rear works out to a 5% increase in volume overall, so 5% more pedal travel. But factor in the new copper brake lines, new flexi hoses, new seals on the front cylinders, and new fluid of course, and I should get that 5% back plus some. I didn't start out intending to replace all that much, but got carried away while dismantling last night (TeriAnn can probably relate to that!). The new cylinders also have a metric thread so new ends had to go on to the rear lines anyway. I'm getting the rear drums machined, but have put off doing the front since I might try to get hold of a 109 11" assembly for the front. But that opens a whole can'o'worms about the master cylinder bore, servo or not, dual or single circuit. Cripes, I'll sleep on that one. Tools - Doing the brakes finally gave me a good excuse to buy an impact screwdriver (for some stuck brake drum set screws). Cool tool. Steering - In the meantime I fitted new tie rod ends to the draglink. That should tighten up the steering immensely. But damn, those ends are hard to get out of the rod! Refitting was straightforward, except that one of the new ends was fitted with a nylock nut which just caused the threaded section to rotate within the joint instead of staying put, so the nut couldn't cut its thread; got it in the end with the imaginative use of a hacksaw and screwdriver. Then I removed a couple of shims from the RH swivel assembly to tighten that up. There's still a bit much play in the bearings though. I suppose the leaky swivel housing oil seals may have something to do with that. While doing this I noticed From "James" Thu Jun 15 11:03:23 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 11:03:23 GMT0BST From: "James" Subject: Land Rover Security ????? On the subject of Land Rover security... I have a friend with a series 3 which was broken into in a supermarket carpark last week. The theif had crowbarred open the driver's door and attempted to hotwire the ignition under the steering column. The car was allarmed and the alarm was still going off when the owner returned to the car but it must not have been much of a deterrant as the hotwire job was well in progress. Anyway... Fortunately the vehicle owner came back in time and the thief dissappeared leaving a job half done. Anyway as happens in this kind of situation... the police were called... The poiceman was giving the owner of the vehicle a hard time about keeping his vehicle secure.... Until.... My friend drew out of his pocket, alarm control, HT lead, Overdrive lever.... and probably half of the rest of the car! So... In conclusion... A simple immobiliser is preferable to a fancy alarm system. By the way... Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards entry? ... James Curtis From Tom Stevenson Thu Jun 15 11:59:23 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 11:59:23 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Ninety brakes >similar noise problem fixed, which came up after a weekend trip to >Cape Cod over the sand. It turned out that (according to the dealer) >the emergency brake was rubbing against the rear drums. This caused >the vehicle to sound as through something were still engaged when >rolling forward in neutral. However, my 90 has never This sounds like a bit of a dodgy explanation from the dealer. For a start, I thought the US 90s had discs all round. Also, the LR emergency (parking) brake operates on the transmission, not on the wheel brakes. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Tom Stevenson Thu Jun 15 12:05:49 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:05:49 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: rubbing tyres Jeff It sounds as though the steering lock limit bolts are incorrectly set for the tyres you have fitted. They need adjusting so that the tyres don't rub on the suspension arms at full lock. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Jun 15 12:32:15 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 12:32:15 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ????? > Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards > entry? In my opinion, locking the car just means that the thief will do more damage - if the car has no visible radio then there is less chance of someone breaking into the car. Here is my thief deterent plan: I intend to find the cheapest, crappiest, most bashed *manual tune* radio I can find and take the top cover off it. I'll then solder a piece of junk wire to the speaker outputs on the main board and tuck the other end out of sight. Pull some of the wiring loom so that it stands proud of the box and you're away. This mess will then be held to the dashboard in the crudest manner I can use (it depends on where on the dash it goes.) A thief will take one look at the radio and see that they'll get a quid *if they're lucky* and not bother to break in. This leaves my real radio, safely hidden behind the centre seat (or wherever), untouched. Another quick trick for stopping joyriders is to slip the transfer box into neutral when you park - less obvious, and less messy, that openning the bonnet and removing parts of the engine :-) BTW - how can you joyride in an SIII? Low top speed, no handbreak turns and all the handling of a dead whale! ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Personal -- From "Tom Rowe" Thu Jun 15 07:29:06 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 07:29:06 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Removing brake drums Charlie Wright wrote he had trouble removing his brake drums. As you may be aware, there is a hole in the drum that one of the retaining screws will fit to press against the hub to pop off the drum. Many times on rusted drums I've foung the retaining screw woefully inadequate. So I use a grade 8 cap screw about 1-2 inches long (I keep one in my tool chest). With a little tenderness, turning in the cap screw to the point where the drum is coming off on one side then backing out the screw and tapping the drum back on and repeating the process, there hasn't been a drum I haven't been able to get off. Also liberal quantities of something better than Lquid Wench called PDQ made by a company in PA. Hope this helps next time. But you used Never Seeze when you repaced them, right? Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Four wheel drive allows you to get trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Jun 15 07:47:56 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 07:47:56 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Swivel to hub lube Reading the postings regarding the lube of front wheel hubs one thing seems to have been missed. Most, if not all, series hubs had an oil passage drilled from inside the hub to one of the holes for the driving member bolt. You can see it when you have the hub off. On cleaning the hub, make sure the passage is clear and mark the outside of the hub (you can't see the hole once the hub is installed). I also paint the bolt that will go in that spot with a significant color. After reassembly, rotate the hub so your marked bolt is on top, remove it and fill the hub with the proper qty. of oil. TerriAnn is right though, the later manuals say to pack the bearings & hub with grease. ?? Chhers, Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Four wheel drive allows you to get trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu stuck in places even more inaccessible. From kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Thu Jun 15 14:59:00 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 95 14:59:00 UTC From: kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: Re:Defender-90 Tire Rub/Acces (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions Jeff Gauvin Wrote: "But, since the day I drove it out of the showroom I've noticed a rather disturbing "grinding" noise when the steering is at full-lock left...." I have not had this problem on mine, sounds like something not quite right. Shannon Holland wrote: "I'm getting pretty close to buying a new Defender 90 and have a couple of questions regarding some of the accessories...." Get a winch! But I think there must be a better solution than the LRNA Warn combo--very pricey. The engine protecion plate is interesting--I wonder if it protects the steering tracking(?) rod--(the thing that keeps both front wheels going in the same direction). I already had to get one replaced after getting stuck--I was high centered, and the rod runs just below the front axle, so in effect the weight of the vehicle was sitting on it. It cost $200 cdn installed. (if I had a winch I wouldn't have had the problem to begin with) Bill Kessels kesselsb@ey.geis.com From Jim Russell Thu Jun 15 07:39:03 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 07:39:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Jim Russell Subject: Re: Fron wheel lube... Earlier vehicle (at least through '66) where supplied with all wheel bearings being oil lubricated. The hole in the driving member was used for filling after disassembly but normally the oil found it's way there on it's own. Later vehicles were supplied with grease packed bearings and the service manual recommended conversion of earlier oil lubed hub bearings to grease lubrication. Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From Mike Rooth Thu Jun 15 17:02:53 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 95 17:02:53 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ????? With regard to this query,has anyone considered a large dog? Or even a small one with large teeth. i would consider a Newfie ideal,personally(as was discussed some months ago).Wouldnt bite,but would either: A)Lick the intruder to death B)Drown the sod in spit C)Sit on hime till you got back(with the possibiltiy of suffocation). To my knowledge,no other protection device(or breed) offers this wide range of options. Cheers Mike Rooth From John Brabyn Thu Jun 15 09:49:20 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 09:49:20 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Air Filters On Tue, 13 Jun 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >..... It was more cost effective to frequently > replace paper elements than to frequently clean foam elements. This makes sense to me TerriAnn -- and besides, being lazy, it saves me from switching to the K&N system and doing all that cleaning! I replace mine about twice as often as the manual recommends to compensate for the excessive diet of dust I feed it. I'd much rather replace the element than mess about with cleaning it. Cheers John From John Brabyn Thu Jun 15 10:03:09 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 10:03:09 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Winches for D90's On Wed, 14 Jun 1995 kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com wrote: > ... Can I just bolt (or even > weld) the winch right to the bumper or does the mounting kit actually fasten > it to the frame? No you can't, but you might get away with a winch mounting channel from Warn for about $50 that you could bolt or weld on -- the type they use for Jeep Wranglers. > Does anybody have any lower cost winch solutions? > weld) the winch right to the bumper or does the mounting kit actually fasten I'd call Ramsey Winch Autocrane in Tulsa Oklahoma -- their winches are cheaper than Warn, and they make $100 mounting kits for RRs, don't know about Defenders, but probably by now they have one out. To actually order the stuff you have to go through one of their dealers of course -- the best one is Leon Rosser Jeep. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Alan Richer 15 95 Jun EDT 1908 Date: 15 Jun 95 8:51:14 EDT From: Alan Richer Subject: Speaking of brakes... Speaking of brakes, is there anywhere a commonly-available double master cylinder that will bolt up to a Series IIa brake pedal? The thought of single-cylinder brakes leaves me a bit cold, so I was thinking of replacing the brake lines and hoses, and splitting the system front/back with a double master cylinder. Anybody done this, preferably with parts I can get in the States? Yours, Alan From "Sean McInerney" 15 1995 Jun U 1910 Date: 15 Jun 1995 10:26:45 U From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Not getting through Subject: Time: 10:25 AM OFFICE MEMO Not getting through Date: 06.15.95 My submissions to the list are constantly being returned to me after being sent to lro@Land-Rover.Team.Net. What is the correct address for submissions to the LRO digest? They leave my mail router yet never reach their final destination. Hopefully this message will reach someone.....I have plenty of things which I have been trying to submit. If this message somehow ends up on the list.....then I guess my question is answered. From johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Thu Jun 15 17:41:34 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 17:41:34 GMT From: johnliu@lainet.com (John Y. Liu) Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ????? When my Sr IIA was broken into, the thief smashed a rear window and then could not figure out how to unlock the door latch (since it locks and unlocks with a key only.) He (sexist assumption) eventually forced open the latch leaving me with quite a bit more to repair than a broken window. The lesson I took from this was that if you are in the U.S. where thieves will not know how to unlock a Rover door latch without using a crowbar, consider leaving the vehicle unlocked and relying on hidden radios, ignition cut-off switches, and padlocked storage boxes for your security. From "Sean McInerney" 15 1995 Jun U 1914 Date: 15 Jun 1995 14:23:12 U From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Noisy Gas Guzzler Subject: Time: 4:53 PM OFFICE MEMO Noisy Gas Guzzler Date: 06.12.95 I am trying to send this message for the third time. Please excuse any repeats. I have a 1963 88" with basically no interior excepting the seats......so it is pretty loud at highway speeds. However, I have zeroed in on at least one major unnecessary contributor to my impending deafness.....the high range 4WD selector. At speeds above 55 mph, the rattle from the selector contributes as much as 50% to the total noise produced......inside the Rover, at least. How might I remedy this? The spring seems to provide adequate tension for the knob to be functional and the linkage seems alright (but I have not gotten out the heavy-duty degreaser and investigated extensively). Does the spring need to be under a decent amount of tension while in 2WD? Is it possible to have too much tension (i.e.: impossible to engage 4WD High)? Also, my Rover has a basically stock 2.25l petrol engine with the PVC system and a single-barrel Weber carberator (I think it originally resided in a post-'65 RHD 109" judging by the serial number.). Aside from leaking some oil (I think mostly from the front main seal......no blue smoke and the clutch works fine), it runs very smoothly and has a lot of power (for a '63 Rover). My problem is milage, which is between 10 and 12 miles per gallon....especially considering that I have only the single 12 gallon tank. A lot of this may be explained by my primarily highway driving in the 55-70 mph range (anything above 70 mph, however, is deafening enough to drown out the previously mentioned rattle.). There is some oil on top of the head....not abnormally huge amounts, but a nice wet coating (I think from the fitting between the PCV valve and the pipe from the crankcase). Could there be some occult gasoline mixed in with this seemingly benign oil?.......or where could all my gasoline be going? 11 mpg just seems awfully low when some people are claiming 20 mpg with twin-carbed V8s. Help...save my fuel bill. Thanks in advance, Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88" HT "Friends call it the Beast." From "Sean McInerney" 15 1995 Jun U 1914 Date: 15 Jun 1995 14:24:30 U From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Functional Rollbar or Cage REGARDING Functional Rollbar or Cage Does anyone know of a good, functional rollbar for Series IIa Rovers?......Perhaps, even those requiring body modification and bolting to the frame. Would it be worthwhile to contact Safety Devices? Does anyone know how that might be achieved.......phone?....FAX?....address? Additionally, is there anyone on the East Coast specializing in fabrication and installation of such rollbars suitible for the Land Rover? Thanks in advance, Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88" HT Friends call it 'The Beast' From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 15 18:00:02 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:00:02 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Broken Studs on Exhaust >The center top stud for the exhaust manifold is sheared off in the cylinder head Go to your hardware store a get the appropriate Easy Out and back that sucker out. This is SOP for old LR's: You think, "Should I take that exhaust maifold off or not, Hmmmm." You try the first bolt and it unscrews with your fingers. The second one comes out like it's been greased. So you roll up your sleeves and go to it, only to have the last bolt shear off in the head. Expect it. Shear Happens! ...as they say. From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 15 18:11:44 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:11:44 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Nigel's Disease, again >No sooner did someone mention that their electric oil pressure sending unit failed that *mine* packed in. Get a mechanical!!!! I've been driving Lulubelle since 1970, and it didn't take me that long to figure out that the Smith's electrical unit was stroking me. Slap that banjo fitting on the oil line and get real-world OP. SideBar: I lost many vibration dampers, several timing chains, and a set of valves relying on that old electrical gauge. It really sucks. ---- From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 15 18:22:18 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:22:18 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Broken Studs on Exhaust >Not the easiest thing to do and unless you are very careful you can bugger up the threads in the hole. If you don't feel that brave, then your best bet is to take the head to a competant machine shop and have them do it. NOTE: Piece of Cake!!!! Go to Sears. But the appropriate Easy Out and acsociated drill bit (if you don't have) and do it. -- From JCassidyiv@aol.com Thu Jun 15 18:42:59 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:42:59 -0400 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: POR-15 I'm in the second year of my 1966 IIA resto and I decided to try the POR-15 on the frame as added insurance. I ordered their sample kit and followed the instructions for application and painted one of the old broken leaf springs. After drying, I took a sledgehammer to the paint to see if it would hold up-and it did! I painted the whole frame and all other unpainted steel on the truck. As it's not running yet, I don't know if the first winter will take it all off or not. It dries to a porcelin like finish. It's worth getting their sample and trying it. I'll be painting the undercarriage of my 1987 RR with it before the fall. Cheers! John From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 15 18:48:56 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:48:56 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ????? >The lesson I took from this was that if you are in the U.S. where thieves will not know how to unlock a Rover door latch without using a crowbar, consider leaving the vehicle unlocked Listen.... Lulubelle is a '70 IIa with a canvas top AND NO DOOR LOCKS (I replaced the flawed IIa latches with III hardware but never had them fitted with tumblers or keys). I left her for a few days in the Portland, OR airport lot, and came back to her ravanged interior and slashed top. ALL THESE F__KERS had to do is open the door, but they took their blades and carved the canvas to smitherines. There's no counting for inteligence. I had a friend in Portland who had a series-7 BMW. When they took his Blaukpunt, they pried the sunroof out of the B'mr with crowbars rather than just poppping a window and having done with it. The result: Blaukpunt=$1,200... body work= $8,000. Never was the same car. -=-- From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 15 18:52:13 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:52:13 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: IIa vs. III >I'm in the market for a "Series" Land-Rover. I've been told by some that in general the Series IIa is "better Let's get down to basics..... REAL ROVERS HAVE METAL DASH'S. Got it? -- From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jun 15 18:53:59 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 18:53:59 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: ET progress report >My old 88" still doesn't have a name. In the decade it's been in the family nothing ever stuck. What! Don't you name your babies? You're asking for trouble with an English car. From Craig Murray Fri Jun 16 9:04:36 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 9:04:36 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Noisy Gas Guzzler > I have a 1963 88" with basically no interior excepting the seats......so it > is pretty loud at highway speeds. However, I have zeroed in on at least one [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > spring need to be under a decent amount of tension while in 2WD? Is it > possible to have too much tension (i.e.: impossible to engage 4WD High)? You think thats noisy, I have a 2.25 Diesel in a Series 1!!, which means the only sound proofing in the vehicle is metal!!!! I also have a noisy gearbox ,used second hand gears in the re-build, so they don't match, very aggressive mud tyres, that howl louder than the motor, and I am starting to get a bit of diff whine as well!! The interior of this vehicle is so loud, that once when I was driving along at 50 MPH, my sister was tail gating me, and tooting her horn, but I could not hear the horn!!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Thu Jun 15 19:47:11 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 95 19:47:11 EDT From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: The Evil Thing strikes back... Well, last week my rover decided to take full advantage of a planned downtime. I had intended to replace all the tie-rod ends this week, since one of them was seriously sloppy. I was also planning on changing all the gear oils, and generally fixing little things, etc. In preparation, I fixed up my bicycle to assist in the commuting. The timing was seeming good, since Friday I was treated to a flat tire... I knew the rover wanted some attention. Saturday, I went to get some rover repair supplies (oil, grease, etc). Suddenly, third and fourth gear were simply not an option... the gearbox had decided to become a 2 speed. I haven't had the time or heart to drain the oil and (likely) start ripping apart the box. Charlie at RN suggested it might by the 3rd/4th synchro (I called him, since he had rebuilt the gearbox 2 years ago). Any other diagnoses prior to the first incision? jory bell jory@mit.edu ps: This is only the second time in 6 years that the rover has had unplanned downtime lasting more than a fe hours (there was the planned downtime of the frame replacement/rebuild and one other time when my brake master cylinder died, and I ended up having to replace all the brake lines and hydraulics). I guess this is my punishment for repeatedly claiming that a series rover can be a reliable "normal" vehicle and commuting car... From Craig Murray Fri Jun 16 10:47:49 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 10:47:49 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: The Evil Thing strikes back... jory wrote: > Saturday, I went to get some rover repair supplies (oil, grease, etc). > Suddenly, third and fourth gear were simply not an option... the gearbox > had decided to become a 2 speed. > I haven't had the time or heart to drain the oil and (likely) start ripping > apart the box. Charlie at RN suggested it might by the 3rd/4th synchro (I > called him, since he had rebuilt the gearbox 2 years ago). Any other > diagnoses prior to the first incision? Yeah, it sounds like one of the spring clips on the syncro hub has come off, I had this happen a couple of years ago. If you are lucky, it might have just slipped around a bit, as mine did, but if it is broken, you can either remove the other spring clips, or replace the syncro hub. You should be able to verify this, by just removing the top of the gearbox, which is possible to do with out actually removing it from the vehicle. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> 15 95 Jun EDT 1921 Date: 15 Jun 95 21:55:12 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> Subject: Defender-90 Tire Rub Normal? Jeff Gauvin wrote: >But, since the day I drove it out of the showroom I've noticed a rather >disturbing "grinding" noise when the steering is at full-lock left. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >of the left front tire rubs against the radius arm. The tires are the >stock BFG Mud Terrains on the "freestyle choice" alloy wheels. There is a steering stop adjustment (a couple of bolts to the rear and above the swivel housings I think, sorry, workshop manual still not handy). Anyway the adjustment is different for differing tire sizes explaining why wider tires increases turning radius. It sounds like your's is improperly set. You could fix this yourself if you so desire. Shannon Holland wrote: >1. The "Engine Protection Plate". I presume the purpose of this is to >protect the engine from obtrusive rocks, etc. The dealer I'm working with >lists this at $579.00 Is this worh getting? Can I get the same thing >elsewhere later for less and install it myself? Questionable, maybe, and yes. >2. Lamp guards. I see only rear lamp guards listed (for a mere $295.00!). >Can you get front mesh style guards as well? Is this another item that I'm >better off getting elsewhere? Yes and yes (Rovers North, 802-879-0032). >3. Any other accessories people would recommend? Earplugs and a sweater . Paul M. Brodie wrote: > NO - the clanking is not normal - have it looked at. I just had a > similar noise problem fixed, which came up after a weekend trip to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > rolling forward in neutral. However, my 90 has never dropped out of > gear, in either high or low diff. Ditto on the NO, ditto on the parking brake problem (back off the adjuster), and ditto on the never popping out of gear. You're welcome for the tip on the leak but I meant rear MAIN seal, not oil pan, which I assume you mean and which leaks too BTW. - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | 72700.3262@compuserve.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From Andrew Steele Thu Jun 15 22:15:26 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 22:15:26 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: 1973 "new" 88 Hello, I have several thoughts this evening. Thanks to every one who commented about the temp sending units on RR. I will be ordering a new unit when I get my FIRST (of many) Series III parts. To satisfy anyone's curiosity, I bought the 1973 Series III 88 advertised several weeks back in Missouri. (Sight unseen let me add) The trip went well, my 87 RR pulled an empty U-Haul auto transport trailer from Ohio with no unexpected happening. The 88 was last licensed or run five years ago. Front fenders & hood were removed and stored in the back. Last owner bought it to restore and never had time. Purchase price was $800. Question #1, was this to high? (In retrospect, I'm sure more info & consideration on my part would have been appropriate). Trip home started awkwardly. Loaded w/ the front wheels of the 88 on the appropriate bracket made the trailer very front heavy; and the Range Rover much to light on its ront axle (front wheels locked at the first stop sign with very light braking). The tie down straps were not arranged to allow positioning of the 88 better centered on the trailer (damn a short wheel base vehicle -just kidding). I tried reloading the 88 backwards thinking that would give a better weight distribution on the trailer. No go this way either. Reloaded a third time and had to disregard the provided wheel stops and tire straps on the trailer. Fortunatly, I had a tow strap and come-a-long with me so I was able to secure it farther back on the trailer. [Take heed if you ever trailer an 88 using a U-haul]. It was closer to midnight than I cared for at this point, but started back anyway. [Tried one hotel but they didn't care to accomidate Lum (my Great Dane). Slept in a rest area (Range Rovers work pretty well with the seats folded - not a lot of extra room with the dog mind you - and I would'nt care to try sleeping in a rest area without her anyway, would'nt want to get shot. She barked when a car and occupants (very rough) pulled up along side and they moved on. Total trip was just under 1,100 miles and 22 hrs. Back in the garage, closer investigation reveals that the brakes and clutch are without any fluids. Three brake line leaks found after refilling. Clutch still has no effect when refilled and bleeder opened. QUESTION #2 as I didn't pay much attention to the bleeding the clutch notes several months past (well no Series in the garage at that time) could someone either repost the FAQ or remind me where to look to find it? Other notes, frame is in fairly good shape, only three small holes rusted through, otherwise solid. New gas tank was included, needs a new bracket welded on beore reinstallation. Fuel filter has growths in it that put a childs magic rock growth collection to shame. Electrically dead except for emergency flashers. Body & top faded, but other than some dents in good shape except for the side panal riviots over the rear wheelwell. Third and final question (for now): In prepartion to turn the engine and see if its seized (that's true - I really don't know) I am going to shoot a mixture of rust penentrant and oil into the spark plug holes. Is there anything else I should do first? (Anyone in the Dayton area care to stop by the house with a crank for a few hrs?) Thanks for your patience, I know this was a long and rambling post. Andrew Dayton, Ohio 87 RR and now presenting "noname yet" Series III 88. From Craig Murray Fri Jun 16 12:32:40 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 12:32:40 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 1973 "new" 88 Try to crank it over before you put the anti rust stuff down the cylinders. I know some one who pulled a Land Rover off a farm, that had not been touched in about 10 years! We put a battery in it, gave it a coil and some fuel, and it fired up. We even drove it around, but it looked a bit silly having to have some one walking beside the car to operate the throttle, as there were no linkages!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From Treski@aol.com Fri Jun 16 00:16:06 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 00:16:06 -0400 From: Treski@aol.com Subject: RE: All Defender 110 owners / fans!!!! HI all you rover fans! I am looking to share info on accessories for defender 110s and 90s. also my rover is "clunking" ion 1st gear, and it feels like the emergency brake is a little harder to pull up. Is this a potential prob???? ANy one from the midwest that reads this should e-mail me soon because a great club just got started and is really fun!!! thank you and i welcome any personal comments !! Tre M. From David John Place Thu Jun 15 23:42:51 1995 Date: Thu, 15 Jun 1995 23:42:51 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: 1973 "new" 88 I just picked up a vehicle stored 7 years and I would say don't start the engine till you clean up a few things and get new oil in to the bearings. What is a few hours work if you want to keep this thing ten years. Drop the pan, clean out the curd, put on a new filter but put oil in the housing when you close it up so the engine doesn't run on dry the first time you start it up, Put new oil in the air bath, take out the plugs and replace them and at the same time put in a good amount of WD40 or heavier oil. The walls are going to be dry and the rings will scuff at the least and break at the worst. If you have the time I have taken the crank bearings down and oiled them before a start up. I just bought an Austin not run for 7 years. It took half a day to prep it for start up but it runs like a new vehicle. It only had 40,000 miles so I didn't want to wreck it before I even got it started. While you are at it drain the cooking system and put in new rust inhibiting antifreeze. You don't want to circulate a whole bunch of crud and plug the thermostat and rad. They cost big bucks. A few turns with the crank or with the coil not attached and then a start up. This is the way to get a dead vehicle up and running not the bull in a china shop approach which does 5 years damage in ten seconds. Dave VE4PN From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Jun 16 01:52:03 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 01:52:03 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Swivel to hub lube Tom Rowe sez... > Most, if not all, series hubs had an oil passage drilled > from inside the hub to one of the holes for the driving member bolt. You > can see it when you have the hub off. On cleaning the hub, make sure > the passage is clear and mark the outside of the hub (you can't see the > hole once the hub is installed). Actually... Look carefully at your hubs.. The drilled bolt hole is the only onFrom dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Jun 16 17:38:10 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 17:38:10 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Swivel to hub lube Tom writes: > from inside the hub to one of the holes for the driving member bolt. I know of what you speak as I have a set that has done service on both of my IIa and stage 1 (originally off of an early III 109 6cyl) Over here in OZ they seem to be the exception rather than the rule. Anyone know what vehicles this type of hub was fitted to and when they stopped fitting them???? Changing the hub oil occasionally beats repacking bearings anyday.... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Charlie Wright Fri Jun 16 11:27:07 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 11:27:07 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: 1973 "new" 88 On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, David John Place wrote: > at the least and break at the worst. If you have the time I have taken > the crank bearings down and oiled them before a start up. I just bought I wouldn't risk pulling the bottom end for this. As you say later, crank it over without spark. The best solution I've come up with is pull the plugs out, squirt some oil in each cylinder (possibly put a little on the valve gear if you have easy access), crank it (on a new battery or from a jump-lead) like that for a few turns. This gets the oil circulating. You should get oil to the valve gear and crank without putting any dangerous pressure on the crank bearing surfaces. If you fire it up right away, the force is orders of magnitude higher on the un-oiled surfaces. > want to wreck it before I even got it started. While you are at it drain > the cooking system and put in new rust inhibiting antifreeze. You don't ^^^^^^^ Could this be Freudian? Charlie From Lloyd Allison Fri Jun 16 20:30:23 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 20:30:23 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Ibex II Foers have released the Ibex II - I have a picture on the wwweb at http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Foers/ I'll add the prices and technical details "soon". On air cleaners: I recall a mag' article some years ago that claimed that the oil-bath air cleaner was best at removing large particles but not at removing small particles. Lloyd From Dave White Fri Jun 16 13:54:26 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:54:26 +0100 From: Dave White Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest >From: Alan Richer >Date: 15 Jun 95 8:51:14 EDT [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >Speaking of brakes, is there anywhere a commonly-available double >master cylinder that will bolt up to a Series IIa brake pedal? The thought Late series III's were fitted with a dual circuit, servo assisted, brake system. If you can get hold of a complete pedal assy. from one of these, they are a straight replacement for your existing pedal assy. I don't know if the master cylinder can be used with your existing pedal assy. but it is a standard Girling part. Dave W From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 16 95 Jun EDT 1909 Date: 16 Jun 95 09:03:29 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: K&N Filters - where? ok, now that we've heard all about the marvels of the K&N filters I have just one more question: Do they make filters that could fit/replace the RR Efi pot? Remember, the Efi is very touchy about any tampering with the air intake/air flow etc, all has to remain pretty well balanced the way it was before. And, are these things sold in Europe? Has any of the UK folks seen them for sale or advertised? (Ok, those were two questions...) *If* they actually improve mileage significantly, at the price of gas here I'd be willing to clean the damn thing every single day... Stefan From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Fri Jun 16 09:25:26 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 09:25:26 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Chickened Out Thanks to all for the advice on using "easy outs" to extract sheared bolts from the cylinder head. The overwhelming majority of responses said, "don't do it." One, from Nate Dunsmore, even gave me success percentages to expect: 33.33 percent. Given those odds...and the fact that once I took off the manifolds I managed to shear another bolt...I chickened out and went to a machine shop. Good news though, closer inspection revealed that the sheared stud was not in the cylinder head...it was simply missing in action. The other sheared stud was one of the three at the front pipe and exhaust manifold. Once the replacement studs arrive, and I figure out a way to wire up the muffler (the stupid bracket attached to the muffler rusted through, causing all this grief), I'll be back on the road. Thanks again for the advice. Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIA 88" SW BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland, USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Charlie Wright Fri Jun 16 15:17:47 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:17:47 +0059 (BST) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Fri, 16 Jun 1995, Dave White wrote: > Late series III's were fitted with a dual circuit, servo assisted, brake system. > If you can get hold of a complete pedal assy. from one of these, they are a > straight replacement for your existing pedal assy. I don't know if the master I don't suppose anyone knows of a non-servo (for us oil-burners = lack of vacuum) dual master? I guess you could fit a second master cylinder in parallel and attach both to the pedal assy. by a rig... but you'd double the pedal pressure and shorten the travel doing that... Come to think of it, I usually have more travel (air?) than I need anyway, hmmmm. Charlie From Russell U Wilson Fri Jun 16 10:26:32 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 10:26:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: FOR SALE... '69 88 Pgh area '69 88 for sale.. Condition: just about what you would expect for this area of the country... it needs a "frame off". The body is good, LHD, No goodies i.e. winch, overdrive, or tropical roof. The good news is that The engine, body and interior anre all in good shape and are all that is keeping the soul of this beast alive. This belongs to a friend and I'm posting as a favor... NO I'm not selling my beast (it's a '67).... Price: I think he will listen to ANY offer at this point. Same old story....he bought it to restore and found that he didn't have to time...so he is looking to move this thing.. let me know if any of you are interested. Russ From "Sean McInerney" 16 1995 Jun U 1910 Date: 16 Jun 1995 10:00:17 U From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Getting the FAQs REGARDING Getting the FAQs Thanks for the many responses to inform me that finallt I had posted my messages to the correct address. Also....the many responses to my queries have been helpful as well.......I'll try the scrunchies. I have only had 'The Beast' a couple months, so I am sure to have plenty more questions. By the way......'The Beast' has become my daily driver (more relaxing to drive) so I am trying to ditch my 94 Integra GS-R sedan....any takers on the East Coast? I already have another Rover in mind to buy as a "spare" when I finally sell my car. Can't hand-crank an Acura anyway. Many thanks, Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88" HT "Friends call it the Beast." From lenagham@bachman.com Fri Jun 16 10:48:26 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 10:48:26 EST From: lenagham@bachman.com Subject: Re: K&N Filters I've had a K&N filter on my 87 RR EFI for a couple of years now and to be honest I saw no improvement in either performance or mileage (and yes it has been cleaned and reoiled with the K&N kit). There was an article in the LRO magazine or Land Rover World some time back where they were tuning a RR on a dynamometer, one of the things they tried doing to improve performance was to add a K&N filter but it showed no improvement so they took it back out. For those still interested I will look back through my "bills" over the weekend and see if I can retrieve the K&N part number for the filter that fits the EFI engine and post it next week. Cheers Mike Lenaghan From "Sean McInerney" 12 1995 Jun U 1916 Date: 12 Jun 1995 16:54:46 U From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Noisy Gas Guzzler Subject: Time: 4:53 PM OFFICE MEMO Noisy Gas Guzzler Date: 06.12.95 I am trying to send this message for the third time. Please excuse any repeats. I have a 1963 88" with basically no interior excepting the seats......so it is pretty loud at highway speeds. However, I have zeroed in on at least one major unnecessary contributor to my impending deafness.....the high range 4WD selector. At speeds above 55 mph, the rattle from the selector contributes as much as 50% to the total noise produced......inside the Rover, at least. How might I remedy this? The spring seems to provide adequate tension for the knob to be functional and the linkage seems alright (but I have not gotten out the heavy-duty degreaser and investigated extensively). Does the spring need to be under a decent amount of tension while in 2WD? Is it possible to have too much tension (i.e.: impossible to engage 4WD High)? Also, my Rover has a basically stock 2.25l petrol engine with the PVC system and a single-barrel Weber carberator (I think it originally resided in a post-'65 RHD 109" judging by the serial number.). Aside from leaking some oil (I think mostly from the front main seal......no blue smoke and the clutch works fine), it runs very smoothly and has a lot of power (for a '63 Rover). My problem is milage, which is between 10 and 12 miles per gallon....especially considering that I have only the single 12 gallon tank. A lot of this may be explained by my primarily highway driving in the 55-70 mph range (anything above 70 mph, however, is deafening enough to drown out the previously mentioned rattle.). There is some oil on top of the head....not abnormally huge amounts, but a nice wet coating (I think from the fitting between the PCV valve and the pipe from the crankcase). Could there be some occult gasoline mixed in with this seemingly benign oil?.......or where could all my gasoline be going? 11 mpg just seems awfully low when some people are claiming 20 mpg with twin-carbed V8s. Help...save my fuel bill. Thanks in advance, Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88" HT "Friends call it the Beast." From Mr Ian Stuart Fri Jun 16 15:55:22 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 15:55:22 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Noisy Gas Guzzler > is pretty loud at highway speeds. However, I have zeroed in on at least one > major unnecessary contributor to my impending deafness.....the high range 4WD > selector. At speeds above 55 mph, the rattle from the selector contributes > as much as 50% to the total noise produced......inside the Rover, at least. Yup - I get it on my 109 as well. The rattle is from the verticle shaft clattering against the plate over the gearbox. My temporary fix was to get an old shoe-lace and push it down over the shaft and then replace the spring over the, now condomed, shaft. Careful mainpulation of the shoelace will allow you to fold half an inch back down the outside of the spring and this will stop the shoe-lace from sliding down thew shaft. I don't know how long this will hold up - I've only had it on for a week.. > where could all my gasoline be going? 11 mpg just seems awfully low when > some people are claiming 20 mpg with twin-carbed V8s. Help...save my fuel > bill. i've got a Zenith 36IV on a 2.25. The carb has a flat spot & badly need overhauled - but I'm getting 200 miles to a tank (anout 14mpg) Try getting your engine tuned, and overhaul the carb too. ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Personal -- From Alan Richer 16 95 Jun EDT 1911 Date: 16 Jun 95 11:37:13 EDT From: Alan Richer Subject: Re: Braking... My mail server (for lack of a better word) has managed to lose it several times in past days. If anyone has commented on fitting double brake masters to a IIa, please copy me on it again...thanks. P.S.: Charlie, did you measure your wipers? -ajr From "John R. Benham" Fri Jun 16 08:40:00 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 08:40:00 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Rovers in Films Dear LRO's, Yesterday, a colleague here at work gave me several video tapes. One stood out since it had an African theme. Yes, `Emanuelle in Africa' does have some Rover scenes in it! This 1991 fluff features a green, 2-door, RHD, Range Rover with brush bar and roof rack. Also seen is a safari equipped 109 5-dr. The 109 has red and yellow diagonals painted on the rear quarter panels - typical of that for Land Rovers in Kenya. If you can put up with the no-plot, dubbed, bad acting, you might see a few Rover scenes! It is `R' rated for aRlful! Later, John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov From JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Fri Jun 16 13:31:00 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 13:31:00 -0400 From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Subject: POR-15 report Hi all, Things have been a bit busy lately, so I need to do a little catching up. I have had some past experience with POR-15. The company actually markets many products designed for the auto restoration market. One product, "Metal Ready", is an etching compound that leaves the usual coat of zinc phosphorus on the surface needing painted. The other product, POR-15, appears to be an epoxy paint. I have had excellent results with this product on the frame of an FJ-40. It held up exceptionally well to the Midwest winter salt. On the few occasions that I managed to scrape it off the frame, the rust that formed was unable to travel under the finish any further. I was able to spray the stuff onto the frame without thinning it. (pressure @ 90 psi.) The only drawbacks that I have seen to date, is the fact that UV light causes the black to discolor a bit. That, and the fact that if you get any on you, it's days or weeks before it finally comes off. Jim Cirbus 94 D-90 From "Elam, Gerry" Fri Jun 16 12:49:00 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 12:49:00 edt From: "Elam, Gerry" Subject: Keyless system In the folders of AOL's Car & Driver Section, the following advice was given to extend the range of the keyless system on the Discovery: ------------------------------------------------------------- Remove the UNDERDASH hush panel cover on the PASSENGER side. There are -3- panel pops holding the panel in. One vertical, which is right of the radio console, and two horizontally, which if you lay on the passenger floor carpet and look up, you will see them both. Remove them both by using a PANEL popper or a combination of pliers and a flat head screwdriver. They are removed by PULLING them out with FORCE. Don't worry about breaking them, you can replace these from any auto shop by buying them on the "HELP!" lineup, they usually don't break, but if you live in a cold climate---it may. Anyway, after you remove the clips, pull down the cover, you will see a BLACK module to the far right. It will have a 1/4 inch or so of thick black cable leading to it. Pull on this cable, the end leading away from the module should pull out REALLY easily (it did in mine--in fact my cable was exposed and coming out of the hush panel). After you got the end out, run it up the side DASHBOARD and up onto the windshield area, place the remainder of the cable in front of defroster under the bottom of the windshield. That's it! Put everything back together and test range, test before and after. You WONT have to be right next to the darn truck to unlock you doors now, I can unlock mine from inside the house. -------------------------------------------------------------- Question: Are there any reasons not to do this operation? I check his instructions and it does indeed extend the range by a factor of about 10. Is it detrimental to the vehicle in any manner? And yes, compared to other problems on the post, this one is insignificant ... but a real handy solution!!!! Regards, Gerry '95 Discovery N 33 19'06.9" W 112 03'28.0" From Jeff Gauvin Fri Jun 16 11:47:33 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 11:47:33 MDT From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: ARB compressor in D-90 Thanks for your response to my tire-rub question; I had my D-90 in the shop for an oil change yesterday, so I had the mechanic adjust the steering stop for me. Next question: Where is the best place to mount an ARB air compressor in a Defender? Engine compartment? Under one of the front seats? I plan to use the compressor for both tire inflation and locking differential operation, if that makes any difference. Thanks in advance. -- Jeffrey J. Gauvin email: jeff.gauvin@symbios.com Symbios Logic Inc. Voice: 719-573-3563 1635 Aeroplaza Dr. FAX: 719-573-3824 Colorado Springs, CO 80916 From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Jun 16 14:23:50 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 14:23:50 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: SIItoSIII brakes > Late series III's were fitted with a dual circuit, servo assisted, brake system. > If you can get hold of a complete pedal assy. from one of these, they are a > straight replacement for your existing pedal assy. I don't know if the master > cylinder can be used with your existing pedal assy. but it is a standard Girling > part. Two slight mods are (may be) required: 1) The slot in the footwell where the brake pedal comes through needs to be lengthened towards the rear of the vehicle just a tad. (The late IIa/III brake pedal enters the footwell at a slightly different angle.) 2) If you do go servo assist, you may have to put a slight dent in the inside top of your bonnet (the frame for the bonnet has a slight indentation on SIIIs around where the servo sits). I've seen a few SII/SIIas with this "dent", but could very well have been bonnets off of SIIIs. rgds, rd/nige (single master stock setup-CB type) ps. Dave (4VPEN guy) has in the past posted that the dual master off of an AMC car (forget which-he'll chime in) is a cheap bolt on alternative to LR master cylinders. From ccray@showme.missouri.edu Fri Jun 16 13:37:57 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 13:37:57 -0500 (CDT) From: ccray@showme.missouri.edu Subject: Re: 1973 "new" 88 On Thu, 15 Jun 1995, Andrew Steele wrote: > Back in the garage, closer investigation reveals that the brakes and clutch > are without any fluids. Three brake line leaks found after refilling. Clutch > still has no effect when refilled and bleeder opened. i would *want* to redo the brake system completely on an $800 car, so this isn't necessarily bad news... check out www.missouri.edu/roverweb > childs magic rock growth collection to shame. Electrically dead except for > emergency flashers. Body & top faded, but other than some dents in good shape > except for the side panal riviots over the rear wheelwell. i bought the biggest sears diehard made and it was still shorter than the battery clamps. i would do that first and try to avoid the cranking. get some acid that converts rust to some sort of stabalized iron -- makes it black, too. replace some of the bolts and convert the others -- will make that vehicle look a *lot* better. > Third and final question (for now): In prepartion to turn the engine and see > if its seized (that's true - I really don't know) I am going to shoot a > mixture of rust penentrant and oil into the spark plug holes. Is there > anything else I should do first? (Anyone in the Dayton area care to stop by > the house with a crank for a few hrs?) it was my understanding that in feb-95, that motor cranked over... > Thanks for your patience, I know this was a long and rambling post. > if its seized (that's true - I really don't know) I am going to shoot a > mixture of rust penentrant and oil into the spark plug holes. Is there good to hear from you. lets get that rover back on the road (off road, too) --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 --------------------------------------------------------------------- From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Fri Jun 16 13:39:35 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 13:39:35 PDT From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: ARB compressor in D-90 >From: Jeff Gauvin >Subject: ARB compressor in D-90 >Next question: Where is the best place to mount an ARB air compressor >in a Defender? Engine compartment? Under one of the front seats? I >plan to use the compressor for both tire inflation and locking >differential operation, if that makes any difference. I've had good luck with it installed above the the left front wheel on the inner fender behind the head light. A extension tube is needed to make the air chuck accessable for filling tires. Rubber isolater mounts are used to keep the noise down. Apparently the fender makes a great amplifier for the noisy, vibrating compressor. Power is tapped off the altenator connections. The mechanic who put it in was doing his 4th D90 install so he pretty much had it down. I was really impressed with how it worked out. The noise and vibration from an underseat compressor mounting could be real annoying, it is definitely noticeable in mine but not a big deal. It works awesome on the trail. Off trail I'm going from 20 -> 35lbs of air in about 2.5 - 3 minutes per tire. -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Jun 16 17:19:16 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 17:19:16 EDT From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: SIItoSIII brakes (fwd) > > 2) If you do go servo assist, you may have to put a slight dent in the > > inside top of your bonnet (the frame for the bonnet has a slight indentation [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > You do have to cut the top of the wing to allow the servo to > fit in there... DoOP!....Dixon reminded me you've gotta cut that wing up a tad as well. Sorry folks, that was the obvious modification. To be clear, the dent is not in the bonnet itself, just in the rearside frame for the bonnet (that runs horizontally across the rearside of it). Subtle dent, for sure, but I *suspect* it needs to be there (ymmv). thanks, Dixon, rd/nige From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Sat Jun 17 10:06:24 1995 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 10:06:24 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: IIa vs. III >Let's get down to basics..... REAL ROVERS HAVE METAL DASH'S. I'm almost embarrassed to admit how many years it was before I realised how perfect the lip on the underside of the metal dash is for opening beer bottles. They just don't make em like they used to. Hugh From "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> 16 95 Jun EDT 1920 Date: 16 Jun 95 20:15:04 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> Subject: D90 Parking Brake Problem/Fix Tom Stevenson wrote: >This sounds like a bit of a dodgy explanation from the dealer. For a >start, I thought the US 90s had discs all round. Also, the LR emergency >(parking) brake operates on the transmission, not on the wheel brakes. plus Tre M. wrote: >HI all you rover fans! I am looking to share info on accessories for >defender 110s and 90s. also my rover is "clunking" ion 1st gear, and it > feels like the emergency brake is a little harder to pull up. Is this a >potential prob???? The parking brake is a drum type cable actuated setup mounted to the transfer case's rear output shaft. It can fail to release sufficiently such that the shoes can bind or catch the drum during rotation. This is very noticable at slow speed, e.g. coming to a stop, but may actually be occurring all the time causing a potentially damaging high temperature condition shortening the life of the transfer case's rear seal. This binding can happen especially after some exhaust/ running heat is absorbed and during hard left turns (from my experience). If you notice the parking brake engages sooner or is harder to apply in conjunction with a juddering or "clunkning" this is very likely the cause. The parking brake is also prone to self-tightening over time. The fix is to back off the parking brake lever adjustor. This can be done quite easily using a 17mm socket on the adjusting bolt located at the front bottom of the parking brake drum assembly (the non-rotating part) I agree that this should not be the case, that it should work when adjusted to spec, but LRNA knows all about it and there's apparently no fix other than careful adjustment. Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | 72700.3262@compuserve.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Fri Jun 16 21:19:24 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 21:19:24 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Theft deterrents A guy I know installed an *eight track*. Last time thieves broke in, they *left* two tapes! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Fri Jun 16 19:39:16 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 19:39:16 PDT From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: Miscellany RE: DOWNEAST VII RALLY The BSROA newsletter has been hung up at the printer's the past week and will dodgey getting OWL'S HEAD info. to the membership with any significant time remaining until the event.... A group will convoy from Boston on Friday, 30 Jun. A contingent will be staying at the Camden Hills campsite. If interested in joining the convoy - call Club line. If interested in camping at Camden Hills - phone 207-236-3109 for reservations Mon-Fri 9-3. Fees per site is 18.05/night if booked via phone, or 16.05/night if made on site. Call Club line with any questions and call will be returned. See ya there! Jim - now completely mad... and loving it! 1967 2A/88 5.0L hybrid 1967 2A/109 5.0L hybrid 1968 FC/110/2B/Diesel 1970 3500S 1990 Range Rover 1993 D110 From Russell Burns Fri Jun 16 19:43:05 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 95 19:43:05 PDT From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 Returns got the D-90 back today, all spit polished, and shined. I also got a pretty good inventory of spare parts. 1 tailgate D-90 1 spare tire carrier D-90 assorted D-90 body parts 2 Range Rover doors (perfect shape 1 lower tailgate (some Rust) 1 upper tailgate with window. It wasent too bad of a deal all in all. The bump shop also said they would call me if they get any other Rover parts... Russ Burns D-90 Range Rover From JFisk1120@aol.com Sat Jun 17 00:19:16 1995 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 00:19:16 -0400 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: NEW 109 As time passes, I am inclined to think that nothing takes more time than paint. The 109 which we began to renew in early spring has become a bit of a trial. We pulled the old gal apart and checked all the mechanics in just over three weeks. I thought that that would be the hard part. Following the repaint of the engine compartment, we reinstalled the engine and other pertinent bits of mechanical apparati and returned CAMEL 1 (as she is affectionately known around here) to the coachbuilder. Well, we have straightened, alligned, welded, bolted, primed and blocked until we are blue in the pocketbook, but alas, no exhaust fumes. Following the repaint we still have to visit the trim shop for interior refitting. I really hope we get this warm weather project completed before the snow flies. By the way, Jan has no illusions with regard to the name CAMEL 1, however, our first Rover, LION B8, needed an appropriate stable mate. LION B8 is a '64 88' which runs topless this time of year.....now, if we could just get it to stop raining!! J. Howard Fisk Springfield, Missouri From David John Place Fri Jun 16 23:33:07 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 23:33:07 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: SIItoSIII brakes The unit is for the AMC Rambler. It bolts onto to the servo real fine. Dave VE4PN From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Fri Jun 16 23:08:43 1995 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 1995 23:08:43 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: Fabric Doors On Rover John Liu said: >Thought I'd pass on an interesting modification I have seen recently. >A local Series III 88" that is used for very heavy offroading (e.g., yearly [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >panel in the door fabric for added ventilation on those 110 degree days in >the Southern Calfornia desert. For those of you who don't already know, that Land-Rover belongs to Lawrence, the owner of British Pacific in Burbank, CA. Some of the body modifications, including the soft top probably stem from the famous roll-over on the slick rock at Moab a few years ago. I like the cut-oFrom Easton Trevor Sat Jun 17 07:17:00 1995 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 95 07:17:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Brake Fluids I am contemplating changing the brake fluid in Miss Golightly's system to silicone as I believe it is much better for long term survivability and I intend to keep her for a long time. Two questions: 1. I just read a short snippet about a high performance fluid (non silicone) in 4Wheel Dive and Off Road. Here they said silicone is not recommended for 4x4s. Does anyone know why and should I not replace my fluid? 2. If I go ahead I have to completely flush the system. Any suggestions on best way to flush? I don't really want to use the silicone fluid for flushing, not at $40 litre. Thanks in advance for the tips Trevor Easton and Miss Golightly From Andrew Grafton Sat Jun 17 16:58:49 1995 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 95 16:58:49 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Re: Dual Circuit Brakes > > >From: Alan Richer > > >Date: 15 Jun 95 8:51:14 EDT [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > > >master cylinder that will bolt up to a Series IIa brake pedal? The thought > > Late series III's were fitted with a dual circuit, servo assisted, brake system. I've got one and it certainly would fit a Series IIA, perhaps with minor modifications to the wing if the car is RHD (the vacuum assist diaphragm chamber is big and clumsy). Two points; Firstly, the system gets its vacuum from the air inlet manifold and does so by creating a restriction with a butterfly valve mounted in an add-on section of manifold. On our machine this leads to even worse emissions than is normally expected from a 2286 diesel... Secondly, I've experienced how badly the brakes work without vacuum assist (like -they don't-) when I had removed the above- mentioned valve/restriction assy so the car would pass the MOT. Scary. The oil-bath handbrake worked better. If I was retrofitting such a system then I don't think I'd want the Landrover SIII version. I'd try for one with its own vacuum pump which worked reasonably even if there wasn't any vacuum! Maybe there isn't anything else which is an easy fit, though... All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Sat Jun 17 09:19:56 1995 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 09:19:56 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: Ford conversions >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 1995 14:14:35 +0059 (BST) >From: Charlie Wright [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] >+44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge >+44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. >cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England Charlie, Being as you are in England, maybe you could get an answer where I did not (by mail) from Steve Parker Land-Rovers. SP makes an addapter to fit the 3.0-liter Ford V-6 to LR gearboxes. I asked if that same adapter would fit the Cologne-built 4.0-liter V-6 used in the Explorer. Stands to reason that it would. But, as I said, I got no answer from Steve Parker. Even better would be if Ian Ashcroft were to make a conversion to fit the LR transfer box to the Ford automatic gearbox. Cheers, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, CA (707)485-7220 (home) (707)463-4265 (work) '73 Land-Rover 88, more LRs, Austin Champ, BMW 3.0si, Peugeot 505 Turbo... From "Tom Rowe" Sat Jun 17 14:37:10 1995 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 14:37:10 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Dual master cyl. for Series On Friday Russell G. Dushin wrote, >ps. Dave (4VPEN guy) has in the past posted that the dual master off of an >AMC car (forget which-he'll chime in) is a cheap bolt on alternative to >LR master cylinders. I'm using a Jeep dual master on my SIII lightweight. When I had to replace my girling the $65 price of the (I forget the make?) from the local parts store beat the hell out of the $200 girling unit. I'll get the part number and make and post on Monday. Tom Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Four wheel drive allows you to get trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Mike Catlin Sat Jun 17 21:07:29 1995 Date: Sat, 17 Jun 1995 21:07:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Mike Catlin Subject: Re: Ford conversions On Sat, 17 Jun 1995, Granville B. Pool wrote: >...a conversion to fit the LR transfer box to the Ford automatic gearbox... Granville, Marks 4WD Adaptors (Australia) manufactures a transfer case adaptor that allows the Ford C4, C9 or C10 type automatic transmission to bolt to the Land Rover transfer case. They also make an adaptor to fit the Ford toploader 4 speed to a Land Rover transfer case. Their address is 22 Sinclair Rd., Dandenong 3175, Victoria, Australia. Mike 72 series III SWB From "S.Vels Christensen" Sat Jun 18 05:05:52 1994 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 05:05:52 -0600 (CST) From: "S.Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: Removing brake drums In message Thu, 15 Jun 1995 07:29:06 GMT -0600, "Tom Rowe" writes: > inadequate. So I use a grade 8 cap screw about 1-2 inches long (I keep > Tom Rowe I havent found a screw that fits (i'm from Metric Land). What thread is a grade 8 screw? tks sv/aurens From "S.Vels Christensen" Sat Jun 18 05:05:54 1994 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 05:05:54 -0600 (CST) From: "S.Vels Christensen" Subject: RE: Misc In message 11 Jun 95 19:59:21 EDT, "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> writes: > S V Aurens Removing tight track rod ends - with the track rod removed > from the vehicle, slide the clamp well back from the end, place the end [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > end of the rod, there is about an inch of plain portion first to provide > the clamping area for the clamp. I have already changed all 6 ends. I got a new track rod before i started, just in case. Yes i did hammer the rods from the end and abou 3" down. Worked a fine rythm for about a minute each. Then i checked the way of the thread and hammerd on the opposite side of the moving stud. I hammered and banged and hit and smashed... ...ahh, that felt good. After half a turn they came off by hand. Banging one clamp all the way over the rod will remove gunk and rust providing a better grip when adjusting. Why did i not use a vice? Well the road side is my shop. But i'm looking for a large vice to bolt on a "T" setup of two poles to mount in the back. Then i can do the relay. Got the bushes already... Next time the boss is on my neck i'll go home and bang off the last end of the old track rod, clean it and put it plastic. BTW,-looking at various From colin@bajin.demon.co.uk Sun Jun 18 13:27:28 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 13:27:28 +0000 From: colin@bajin.demon.co.uk Subject: What Colour( Color?) I've got a 1974 109 that is now ready to be painted. The trouble is I can't decide what colour to paint it. It has been green, blue and is currently red. So I've decided to let you folks decide the colour. Please e-mail me with your suggestions. Also (UK only) can anyone tell me where to get paint, or what the original green and blue colours are called? Apologies if this message has already appeared, been having trouble with my e-mail. From vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Sun Jun 18 16:04:18 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 16:04:18 +0200 From: vortex@worldaccess.nl (Bert Palte) Subject: Re: Brake Fluids Easton Trevor wrote on June 17th: >I am contemplating changing the brake fluid in Miss Golightly's system to >silicone as I believe it is much better for long term survivability and I >intend to keep her for a long time. This is a topic thas has been discussed in the classic car movement over a long period of time, now. It is almost as controversial as the use of the new "miracle" PTFE [=Teflon (R)] engine oil additives. FWIW, my personal opinion: 1. I know a guy who had been driving his classic car (an MGB, in this case) during his holiday. The brake fluid had been changed to silicone. At some time, he lost some of the the brake fluid (there was a leak somewhere). It proved *very* difficult to obtain replacement silicone fluid elsewhere in Europe along the highway. (It is my understanding, as it was his understanding, that you cannot replenish / mix with the more common ethanol-based brake liquids). So, be prepared to expect trouble then (or, take a spare can with you...). 2. As far as I have understood, there is not a *single* car manufacturer who has approved the use of silicone based brake liquids. There still isn't *any* new car that uses this type of fluid. When buying oil or antifreeze or whatever automotive chemicals, I always look carefully for approvals on the can (e.g. Ford, Daimler-Benz, MIL-..., whatever...). (Doesn't need to be Rover, actually). It is just that car manufacturers tend to be VERY careful in examining every product for their application. IMHO, these liquids shoud not be used as long as the two problems indicated above have not been solved. (I'm really looking forward to that moment, however. Advantages of the stuff are, that it is not inflammable and that is not hygroscopic.) Any comments? Bert Palte (for Dave: PAoLPS) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------- Company E-mail: vortex@worldaccess.nl Vortex Balanceertechniek B.V., Soest, The Netherlands Home E-mail: ....... (coming soon) University of Twente E.E. Alumni 1964 Ser II a 88 Petrol, ex-British Army, Germany. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fradekk@ibm.net Sun Jun 18 19:38:55 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 95 19:38:55 From: fradekk@ibm.net Subject: Re: Functional Rollbar or Cage Can only help you with the address of Safety Devices: Safety Devices Ltd. Regal Drive Soham Cambridgeshire CB7 5BE UK Tel. +441353624624 Fax. +441353624824 According to my info they should manufacture internal and external cages for series II (2) //---------------------------------------------------------------------------- // Frank (Disco 93) From "Walter C. Swain" Sun Jun 18 12:58:57 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 12:58:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: What Colour( Color?) On Sun, 18 Jun 1995 colin@bajin.demon.co.uk wrote: > Also (UK only) can anyone tell me where to get paint, or what the > original green and blue colours are called? I think this has application in the UK. It be interesting to know if > You're pretty much on your own when it comes to paint colour/color. None of us will have to live with what ever hideous colour/color you end up selecting. Perhaps as a good joke you will get a lot of recommendations to paint it that marvelous pastel pea soup green that was common in the late 1960s. In the meantime the following was posted in the not too distant past. The same questions keep coming 'round. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | wcswain@wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us Davis Community Network | Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW (red) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From CXKS46A@prodigy.com From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 18 95 Jun EDT 1919 Date: 18 Jun 95 19:20:19 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Recent Digests Jory -- If your gearbox problem is traced to broken springs on the synchro hub, these can be changed with the gearbox in situ, it is a tedious job which requires a lot of fiddling with long nose pliers, I personally use some surgical pliers that are from a redundant operating theatre. It is however a lot less work than removing the gearbox to replace the springs. Sean, re your request for a roll bar/ cage, if you are considering a UK source then I recomend Betaweld, tel 011 44 1302 842682/ 351264, he makes a wide range of types and styles for the whole range of Land Rover products Sorry for raising the pressure on mail boxes regardind front wheel bearing lubrication. Good side slope driving also helps the oil to flow into the bearings, on one side anyway !!! Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 18 95 Jun EDT 1919 Date: 18 Jun 95 19:35:30 EDT From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: Misc The screw required for the removal of the brake drum is a 3/8 inch British Standard Whitworth thread on early motors and a #/8 inch Unified National Course thread on the later motor, either thread will fit each other, technically bad since ther thread angle on the Whitworth is 55 deg and 60 deg on the Unified. If you look around the engine compartment there are plenty of 3/8 ( 9,52 mm ) dia screws that you could use. regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 18 95 Jun EDT 1920 Date: 18 Jun 95 20:14:21 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: IIa vs. III > I'm almost embarrassed to admit how many years it was before I > realised how perfect the lip on the underside of the metal dash > is for opening beer bottles. They just don't make em like they Actually, the old-style metal radiator grill of pre-1985 Range Rovers also makes a great bottle opener - only draw-backs: You must take off the grill from time to time to remove the caps, and of course you have to get out of the car to open the bottle... I agree, S.II is better. Stefan From Roger Sinasohn Sun Jun 18 17:44:55 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 17:44:55 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ????? > > Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards > > entry? > In my opinion, locking the car just means that the thief will do more > damage - if the car has no visible radio then there is less chance of > someone breaking into the car. I agree completely. I never lock my car doors. Why pay for a broken window? > Here is my thief deterent plan: I intend to find the cheapest, crappiest, In terms of theft of vehicle, I have a battery switch with an "off" position, and it can be locked in that position. I can also switch the fuel switch to the nuetral position. And then there's the steering wheel lock, etc. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From JFisk1120@aol.com Sun Jun 18 21:18:28 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 21:18:28 -0400 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: Re: STOPPING MISS GOLIGHTLY Greetings to Trevor; long time no type. I will ask my shop about the merits of the silicon based fluid for Miss Golightly. The things which I immediately think of are compatability of fluid and mechanical components. I have had a number of RR (Rolls Royce) and a very common problem with those systems is the various elements contained within the fluids. Miss Golightly may have a very delicate system, however, I rather doubt it. (There I go dangling again). With regards to a flushing agent, I do know that advice from a friend who is a Ferrari racing officianado worked very well in a '77 RR LWB. He recommended denatured alcohol, which he said was safe to the seals and mechanical components of every system. It worked like a charm on the '77 and was very reasonably priced. You understand, of course, that this is not the advice of a mechanic, merely that of an experienced checkwriter. I wish I had the skill and aptitude for mechanical diversions, but alas I do not. I wish you and Miss Golightly the best of braking as you approach those perilous roads which lie near the Rover Inn. By the way, I will send you along a packet of information on Branson, MO (and if anyone else on the digest would like information pertaining to our region, please don't hesitate to email). You may just want to bring the Mrs. "south of the border". J. Howard Fisk Springfield, Missouri From David John Place Sun Jun 18 20:34:34 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 20:34:34 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: What Colour( Color?) Take a look in Jimmy's picture list for the up coming calendar and see if you like the green with sand I painted my Rover. It is factory and everyone who sees it likes the color. The top is sandstone as are the wheels and the body is light hunter green. By the way for those contemplating the brake change over. If you can wait about 4 weeks, I will have a complete set of UAP NAPA books fro a store and I will be able to give you all sorts of info on bore size, part numbers and all that sort of stuff. I am selling my restored 88. Winch, safari rack, two tops, new engine, new front end parts, new trans bearings, new interior, new paint job etc. $7700 FOB Winnipeg in Canadian Dollars. That should make it like $5,000 U.S. You can see it on Jimmy's board in its soft top version and maybe he has added the picture with safari rack and side tent. I would like to sell it and get a Ser III or another Ser II for re-building. I like the mechanical stuff and don't really drive a lot anymore. I have a full Land Rover in a box for parts. Finally, if any one lives in the 508 area code, a fellow named Al Richer wants me to send him 4 glow plugs. I have them for him but I can't seem to get in touch with him. Could someone give him a call at 251-0669 and let him know I have the plugs and will trade the item he has. Thanks Dave VE4PN From David John Place Sun Jun 18 20:41:57 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 20:41:57 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: bleeding brakes Did anyone catch the Shade Tree Mechanic program today? They showed a very nice brake bleeding tool that uses the air compressor to bleed the brakes all from one corner of the vehicle. The price of $175 I think they said was a bit steep for back yard types, but for you millionaires it would be a nice addition to the shop. They also showed a disc brake conversion kit that looks like it has possibilities for Land Rovers. Dave VE4PN From JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Sun Jun 18 21:42:00 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 95 21:42:00 -0400 From: JAMES_CIRBUS@HPATC2.desk.hp.com Subject: Re: 88 FOR SALE in Pgh. Russell, Please forward my name and address to the individual in the Pittsburgh area, as I am interested in the 88. I can be reached at the numbers below. Jim Cirbus Sunbury, OH (H) (614)965-9851 (W) (614)478-6252 From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Sun Jun 18 22:02 1995 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 95 22:02 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Stupid stunts in a Land Rover Don't ever go off road with a bozo who goes by the name Mike Lord. He will suggest stupid things to do that sound exciting but will get you in a lot of trouble. We were exploring the forest roads west of Flagstaff, when we drove past a volcanic cinder cone which had been turned into a quarry (I suppose to build I-40). The west half of the cone was gone. Half an hour later, we ended up on a dead end road at the top of this cinder cone. Rather than turn around and go back, Mike suggests we just drive down the front, where all the cinders are exposed, back to the road we were on earlier. It was about a 200 foot drop to the road, and the path we would take started at about a 20 degree angle. We could see where it got steeper half way down. We drove down to that point, and stopped. I got out with my clinometer, and found the angle increased to 30 degrees, and further down, to 45. Well, my dealer brochure for my 72 88 SW says it can climb and descend 49 degrees, and travel across 45 degree slopes, so I figured we were okay. The only hitch was, about 88" from the bottom, the slope increased to more like 60 degrees. Just before that, however, if we turned right, the slope went to 20 degrees. So, at Mike's goading (he was jumping up and down wanting to try), I decided to go for it. We made it to the last 88 inches without incident, but when I tried to turn right, the Land Rover wouldn't. It slid in the loose cinder, only going slightly to the right. I put it in reverse, which backed us up, but also caused the Land Rover to swing so it was pointed down more, toward the steep part. The only thing I could do now was go straight down the steep part. We were still pointed slightly to the right. I decided to reverse a little more to get us straighter, but when I did this, the left front wheel went off the edge and we started going down. I slammed it into first and hit the gas, which got us down quicker. I don't know what angle we were at now, but it felt like we were pitched down about 50 degrees, and rolled to the left 45. Just as it seemed the right side wheels were going to leave the cinder, the left front wheel rolled onto the flat ground, and we were safe. I don't know how close we came to rolling over. We might have been a long way from it, or we may have just barely stayed on all four wheels. I think we would have been alright if we had rolled, as the cinder is relatively soft, but that is an experiment I'd rather not try. I now have a new perspective on what a Land Rover can do, but I don't want to try anything that crazy again. I can't help wondering things like, if the gas tank on the right side were not full, would we have gone over. Level trails to you all, James From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 19 95 Jun EDT 1904 Date: 19 Jun 95 04:34:04 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Going places This weekend I was at the annual gathering of the 'Sahara Club' in which desert freaks of all denominations are organized. They're not committed to any particular sort of vehicle, you get all kinds - from desert-crossing bicyclists (imagine...) to owners of fully loaded $ 800,000 MAN 8x8 based rigs. These guys will make appointments like "...hey, first weekend of October let's get together at Waw el-Kebir and have a good time" (Waw el-Kebir being situated in Central Libya...). What always strikes me is that *very few* of them drive Land Rovers. And when talk comes to the choice of vehicle they'll often poke remarks at us like "...you Land Rover owners are so preoccupied with keeping your beasts on the road and fiddling around with it, you hardly ever have time or money left to actually use them for something sensible, like *travelling* ... all you ever get around to is wallowing in some mud hole, preferably close by so you always can get a quick tow back home..." Much as I hate to, I must admit that they might have a point there. At least in Europe, most LR owners keep their rigs as full-time hobbies, spending more time in the driveway and under the car, than actually driving and doing what automobility is all about: Going places! Stefan From Mike Rooth Mon Jun 19 11:10:43 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 11:10:43 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Going places Hmmm....yes...well,most of us have to *work* for a living.Tends to be a bit time consuming.Annoying, but there it is. Of course all aid agencies instantly recognise the MAN 8X8 truck,and dont know a Land Rover from a baobab tree,do they. You could have tried asking them how *old* the rigs they use are and how much they cost. Still,if it turns them on,and they're out of *my* way, why should *I* care? Cheers Mike Rooth From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Jun 19 11:49:05 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 11:49:05 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ????? > > > Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards > > > entry? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > > someone breaking into the car. > I agree completely. I never lock my car doors. Why pay for a broken window? It's sad to say, but last Thursday night/Friday morning, some person (of unknow parentage, dubious personal habits and a potentially short lifespan) had a go at Lucas. The doors were unlocked (though there is a bar-thingy through the steering wheel) and a few things were visible in the dashboard. What did they nick? Both bl**dy side lights. They didn't need one - BOTH! Now, who needs *two* landrover sidelights? p*ssed off... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Personal -- From paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Mon Jun 19 20:53:20 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 20:53:20 +1000 From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Subject: 109 chassis number location Help! My new (well, in a manner of speaking) 109 is stranded at the Previous Owner's premises because the PO and the licensing authorities can't find the chassis number, so he can't get it registered, so I can't spend a day travelling out to Binalong to fetch it. In South Africa, _all_ cars had a chassis number stamped onto the near- side front of the chassis (passenger side dumb-iron). This one isn't there (according to the Powers That Be at the licensing dept), and no-one seems to know where to look. Any ideas would be _most_ welcome, especially from Australian owners (in case the Ozzies put the numbers on upside-down or something). The car was made in 1976 (or thereabouts), and is a 109 5-door. Suggestions from the Haynes manual is the off-side front spring hanger; the Feds reckon that the near-side _rear_ is the place to look, while the Land-Rover agents tell us that the number is next to the steering box. Maybe I should start a lottery :-) paul -- Paul Nash turbo-nerd & all-round nice guy 14/114 Blamey Cres, Campbell, Canberra ACT 2601, AUSTRALIA From dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Mon Jun 19 13:21:54 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 13:21:54 +0200 From: dbeers@eu.wang.com (David Beers) Subject: Re: Going places Interesting observation. I have noticed a similar trend occurring with so-called "mountain bikes". The vast majority of them are used for relaxed cruising on surfaced roads, even though they are designed to withstand punishing treatment offroad, and thus weigh a few kilos more (and cost a bundle more!) than is necessary in most cases. In any case, if a Land Rover satisfies your urge to wallow in mud, or to get your hands greasy, or to explore exotic locations, then I say it can cater to a wide public. In addition, Land Rovers are cheaper per kilo than mountain bikes! What I find attractive in Land Rovers is the do-it-yourself potential, combined with the fantasy of one day quitting my job, slapping the ol' surfboard on the roof rack, and driving down along the coast of Africa looking for waves! -David 1989 Land Rover 90 TD Hard Top 1992 Anlen 8000 DX aluminum (of course!) mountain bike From Dave White Mon Jun 19 12:37:25 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 12:37:25 +0100 From: Dave White Subject: Re: bleeding brakes >From: David John Place >Did anyone catch the Shade Tree Mechanic program today? They showed a >very nice brake bleeding tool that uses the air compressor to bleed the >brakes all from one corner of the vehicle. The price of $175 I use a product called the "Eezi bleed" from Gunsons. It is manufactured in the UK and costs around 15 pounds sterling. It probably uses a similar principal to the product you mention but uses tyre/tire pressure at 20 p.s.i. (max). I have used mine for a couple of years now on Land Rovers, Range Rovers and some dubious Japanese manufacturers products that I daren't mention on this list... The last system I bled with it was a Range-Rover dual circuit system. It took around 15 minutes to successfully bleed (including the time it took to remove the front road wheels) without any assistance. I would recommend it to anyone. ONE caveat: 1) The seal in the top of the reservoir bottle seems to have an adverse reaction to brake fluid !!! A "slight" design fault that leads me to wash the unit out with water after each use. If the product is not available in your area it could probably be "home made" fairly easily from readily available parts. I can describe how the system works if anyone is interested... Dave W '72 V8 SWB SIII From Lloyd Allison Mon Jun 19 22:52:57 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 22:52:57 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: aluminium paint I have squirreled the paint stuff info' away in http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/LRO/ and I have a suggestion: would anyone with a good graphics terminal and with a * good eye * feel like doing a colour-chart of common Land-Rover colours? Ok, it would not be totally reliable because of differences in computer screens, but it might be useful. Alternatively I can snip bits out of various Land-Rover images - which lets scanner differences in, ... but if the images are of old LRs, the colours will be realistically faded, which is a bonus. Any thoughts? Lloyd From Russell U Wilson Mon Jun 19 09:03:51 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 09:03:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Engine paint color?? It's time to paint my newly rebuilt engine and I was wondering if anyone knew what the original color code was? The only thing I have been able to find is "Detroit Diesel Alpine Green #225" Is this convertable to a Du Pont or PPG color code?? I hope someone has the answer... cheers Russ From kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Mon Jun 19 15:06:00 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 15:06:00 UTC From: kessels.bill=40ott01=40c14a#%forwarder@ey.geis.com Subject: re: battery switch/LR Securit (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions I've seen a neat switch advertised in LRO--when it is switched off and the key removed, a small amount of current still goes through a low-amp fuse to keep any clocks or theft-deterrent radios going so you don't have to enter the code when you start it up. If someone tries to hot wire it, the current from the starter blows the fuse and the vehicle is rendered inoperable. In general, though, I have learned it does not make sense to lock the doors--let the scumbags come in and see there is nothing to steal for themselves (plus it just triggers my alarm that much sooner). Bill Kessels kesselsb@ey.geis.com 94 D90 From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Mon Jun 19 15:10:21 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 15:10:21 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re:Engine rebuilds: Any gotchas? (fwd) >ps. Has anyone out there used the replacement timing gears advertised >in the L/R Owner Digest instead of a timing chain. I'm very intrigued >by them as I find gears to be more reliable generally. Got it done to my 2.5 n/a deisel when teh timing belt was due for replacement. Timimg belts tend to snap wya before teh replacement interbval with an unacceptable frequency. Particulalry sinmce teh engine is and interference engine..........So, I figured I'd pretty much break even if I kept the vehicle for teh rest of my life, but I'd never have to worry about belt failure. \I would agree about reliability, although a chain running in oil is lower \friction than most gears (more friction loss in BMW's shaft-driven \motorcycles than in a closed chain), they do stretch and can break (same in \motorcycles). I'd not have bothered if I had a chain instead of a belt. Belts snap without warning.Chains rattle first, so you can replace em before trashing your engine. \I have heard good things about the gears, but I suspect that the expense \involved is such that you could buy and change (yourself) several timing \chains over the years before the gears are econmical. Yes. I reckon you'd break even at about 200k. But the reliability compared to a belt is a big plus, considering teh number of car in the local garage with trashed top ends di\ue to belt failure at as low as 10k!!! It only takes one seal leak, putting one drop of oil on the belt to make it skip and trash your valves and pistons. Belts are an abomination! \Other comments I've heard pointed out that the slop in the drive gear for \the injection pump (in 2.25 diesel = my particular case) is such that any \additional precision of the gears is wasted... On a petrol, it might be \nice, though. Mostly they are very slick from an engineering point of \view and they have a certain 'go-faster' value, sort of like chrome \air-cleaners ('cept you can't see 'em) Speaking for the 2.5, it now runs very clean. The emissions tester said it was the cleanest Landrover he'd ever tested. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Mon Jun 19 16:22:42 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 16:22:42 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Land Rover Security ????? > Has anyone any tips on how to make the vehicle more secure as regards > entry? \In my opinion, locking the car just means that the thief will do more \damage - if the car has no visible radio then there is less chance of \someone breaking into the car. The trick is to stop em wanting to come in, The plods left a few cars about in London, unlocked. They all got nicked except for teh ones with a box with a Radioactive sticker on it left on the front seats. I go with the Biohazard bag full of old bandages, bits of cotton wool, and red paint..........And teh top coming loose......... Also, a plod tod me that a good way to theifproof your car (and to park it in illegal places) was to lay a cloth across one of teh seats and spread out on it some oily bits of engine and a crescent wrench, along with a note in teh windscreen saying "Gone for spares - will move as soon as possible" +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Easton Trevor Mon Jun 19 11:57:00 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 95 11:57:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: FW: Brake Fluids ---------- From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Mon Jun 19 16:40:41 1995 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 16:40:41 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest >In terms of theft of vehicle, I have a battery switch with an "off" position, >and it can be locked in that position. I can also switch the fuel switch to >the nuetral position. And then there's the steering wheel lock, etc. My 90 2.5 n/a deisel has a bonnet lock (which can only be opened with a key from teh outside), so I just wired in a switch in series with teh stop solenoid. Theif breaks in, cant start engine. Cant easily get under bonnet, and doesnt want to waste lots of time and draw lots of attention to himself trying to start what might be a knackered engine anyway, so he goes and steals someone elses lorry. Tho God alone knows why anyone would try to steal a landrover deisel........ ++++++++++