From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 28 02:47:51 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 02:47:51 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Prospective 2nd Land-Rover (Discover Hank sez... (heh,heh,heh) > p.s. > Everyone see the L-Rs impersonating Russian military vehicles in last > night's "Op Center" on American Tee Wee? (Another Tom Clancy film. > Clancy used to be the insurance agent for some of my in-laws.) Hey! What are you doing watching TV if it's your annual conjugal visit?? Yup... saw them, thought they were Rovers, and decided they just couldn't be after seeing the way the canvas sagged full of rain water! What really got me was that they hadn't a clue as to where the warheads could have gone.. (Hint Hint... just follow the muddy trail from the 8x8!!) Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 28 03:18:09 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 03:18:09 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Radio's, CB's and C.D in Land Ro Mark.. Believe it or not, there *is* a radio mounting location in a SerIII. It's not all that hard to find, but you might be better off disassembling the dash to install the radio... Got you worried yet? OK... Assuming you have LHD.. just to the right of the instrument panel there is a small space with the lever for the dash vent. Put your hand in there with your fingers pointing down and feel the front side (the side you can't see) of the dash. You should be able to feel the cutouts for the radio face and knobs. If your confused at this point (this is a bit silly!) there is a space in the center of the dash for additional guages. The radio mounts just to the left of that. The only problem that I could see with it is what if you have a leak from the dask vents, or a leak somewhere else that would cause water to settle in the dash tray?? Wet Radio Syndrome!! Dash tray? Yup! If you dissassemble the dash, you should find a "tray" that runs across the whole dash opening. Taking the dash apart is not hard, but you need some warm place to do it.. Lot's of plastic bits there which would probably snap in the cold weather.. (Love those plastic SerIII's) As to CB.. If you have a real small set, you could mount it somewhere on the dash tray.. I have a older CB, pretty big one and I mounted it below the dash, dead center, flush against the sloping part of the bottom of the dashboard. Doesn't interfere with the gearshift at all. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Kelly Minnick Tue Feb 28 0:37:21 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 0:37:21 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Misc I have some misc. ramblings here... First off, has anyone had problems getting their packages from UK out of the hands of Federal Express? They have held up my order for over a week 'cause it has brake line clips, a clutch master reservior cap seal, brake drum screws etc., etc... I have ordered 3 previous orders using UPS with actual brake cylinders and repair kits and never had a problem! They must know my motor is running and I want to finish this restoration! 2. The folks at Turner say the single Barrel Weber's run too lean. Is this true? I have a rebuilt Zenith (new throttle bushings!). should I use this? I could jet the Weber richer if we know what jet to use! 3. Head gaskets... I have composite. Doesn't look like it can go on wrong (upside down...) How can you get the small Vs. big holes in the wrong location? Also, I didn't think you had to re-torque the composites??? 4. From what I have gathered/gleaned, the 89 Range Rover has the viscous center diff lock, chain Vs gear driven transfer case, 3.9L motor, updated seals in the power steering box (sure!), and updated auto-load leveler. Don't know if all of these are true, so someone else help us here! 5. The '87 R. Rover I had was prone to water fowling (ducks?) due to the high- pressure wash soaking the starter relay (second from the right). If you are not going to seal (hermetically) a relay, why put something as important as the starter relay out in the engine bay where in could very well see water? (enquiring engineering minds want to know!). 6. How much off of MSRP are people paying for these Disco's? The stripped is listing for $29,375 or something and $32,285 out the door. Down in S. Calif. there are waiting lists. You put your $1000 down and wait about 3 weeks. I don't mind waiting, but I hate the fact that there seems to bee no "dealing". All the dealers have the same price, too! So, if you want one, you have to pay that amount. By the way, $20K here buys a higher mileage 91 or a lower mileage 90... Have fun.... Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari (now running AND not leaking) Ridgecrest, CA From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 28 9:01:33 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 9:01:33 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: LR @ the Movies > Pierce Reid said >>FYI, it appears that all the (Tom) Clancy Movies feature > Land Rovers "somewhere" in them. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > 110 shot with a wide-angle lens....but it looked awfully long. > Gerry 72 88 Are you sure it wasnt a 130?They *are* awfully long. Cheers Mike Rooth From Grettir Asmundarson Tue Feb 28 03:13:49 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 03:13:49 -0700 From: Grettir Asmundarson Subject: unsubscribe lro-digest unsubscribe lro-digest From Charlie Wright Tue Feb 28 11:16:01 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:16:01 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest As the American in Britain, I need too edit this: On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Steve Firth wrote: > ChipEast@aol.com writes: > > Q: Why do the Brits drink warm beer? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > 1) Our beer is not served warm, it is served cool. The problem is that > in the US beer is served far too cold for its own good. I can only guess No, American beers like Bud/Miller Lite/ad nauseum... are served cold _for their own good_. Not too cold for their own good. Anyone who has had any amount of warm American beer (those impatient university days...) knows this... the cold supresses the unpleasant flavor. By the same token, there are a growing number of fine American beers that should not be over chilled... > 2) What gives with the Lucas stuff? I find no problem with the Lucas parts > on any of my vehicles. I *do* find that the French (Ducellier) parts > are prone to breakdown. none I don't think there was anything electrical on our Peugeot that didn't go wrong... but the same could be said for my 109... until I began re-wiring with good copper wire, RS toggle switches, and Bosch relays. ;-) > Could it be (perchance) that the majority of vehicles of which we speak > are pre-'67 abused and subsequently restored examples? I think the way Mine's a 1970, one year younger than myself, and my electrics are still working pretty well. ;-) Charlie From "Keith Coman" Tue Feb 28 13:14:01 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:14:01 GMT+0200 From: "Keith Coman" Subject: unsubscribe unsubscribe bakc@giraffe.ru.ac.za From BwanaE@aol.com Tue Feb 28 07:07:41 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 07:07:41 -0500 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: N. Cal. LWB for sale I'm posting this for a non-net rover owner who is offering the following for sale... please respond to him directly.... Herman Whittington at 209/768-3162. '62 LWB w/ pickup cab. 2.25 petrol, approx. 122,000 miles. Appears to be original, complete,with decent chassis. Call to discuss price. Regards, Eric. From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 28 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 28 Feb 95 08:55:56 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Jeeps in snow << Mark Writes << "I guess my Jeep is crap in the snow, it's certainly not as good as your Range Rover". I << agreed and said goodbye. Jeeps have open differentials, which means only one wheel on each drive axle really works at a time in slippery conditions. Not only IMHO, is it less than satisfactory, it can be downright dangerous. Late model CJ's and YJ's are so bad in the snow that I would not even drive one unless it had Limited Slip Diffs installed. They will spin out for no reason at all. The "basic" 4wd option on the Cherokees is no better. You have to get the Command-Trak or something like that (full-time 4wd option) to get a decent system in the Jeep. Range Rovers and Defenders have full-time 4wd systems that put power to the wheels all the time and adapt the power output to the right wheels for the conditions. Best system in the world! Cheers, R. P. Reid From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 28 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 28 Feb 95 09:38:50 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Comfi seats in a 109 TeriAnn suggested > Well,you could purchase a set of Defender 90 seats & put them into your LR. Makes a world of difference, did that with my 109. Takes a minimal amount of drilling & bolting to make them fit. However, I canibalized them from a totalled Defender (scavenging as usual...). Wouldn't order them new, they're senselessly expensive... don't even ask. Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 28 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 28 Feb 95 09:39:59 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Axle Straps ... snip ... >... snip ... as they restrict suspension travel, as for the talk of bent prop > shafts, I have never seen one, and my sisters 88" has more suspension > travel than a 110" through extended shakels and very tired leaf springs! Right you are, mate, and that's precisely what they're supposed to do - restrict (downward) suspension travel. And it's *because* she has very tired leaf springs that your sis doesn't have a problem without her, er, straps. Take the case where someone has new, very strong HD springs fitted - downward movement on full articulation (or when 'lifting off') will ultimately be stopped by the axle slamming into the fully extended shocks which will take that sort of treatment only that long before they rip off. When they do and the axle lowers itself even further, next thing that is in danger of ripping is the brake hose - very bad. In addition, with a *long* wheel base, there's a real possibility that the rear propshaft will slip out of its joint or eat into the frame where it passes through the hole (someone else already pointed this out). All this is of course irrelevant as long as you only travel on-road or 'moderate' off-road. Still, the straps *should be there*, I definitely wouldn't consider them an 'optional item'. To go even a step further, I'm in fact seriously considering to retro-fit my raised RR with similiar straps for precisely the reasons mentioned... Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 28 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 28 Feb 95 09:39:22 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Questions Robert Kerner wants a raise... > ... snip ... The Toyota had the rear springs mounted above the > axels, and the u-bolts facing up. THis didn't change any of the suspensions ... snip ... > realize this would raise the center of gravity, but does this sound like a > crazy idea and would it cause other problems??? It would also then allow me You can't do that with Land Rover axles, the axle & springs are "made to fit" exactly as they are, they'd move all over the place and the U-bolts would snap if you did the other job. You have to raise it via the spring mounts and shackles (raises the chassis) plus larger tires if you want more diff clearance, giving due consideration to shocks, break hoses and prop shafts that might have to be adjusted to the new geometry. Stefan From Steve Methley Tue Feb 28 14:59:57 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:59:57 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Jeeps in snow Pierce Reid: > Range Rovers and Defenders have full-time 4wd systems that put power to the > wheels all the time and adapt the power output to the right wheels for the > conditions. Best system in the world! There's more to this I believe. It all depends on whether you're talking about the full time LR products with a viscous locking centre diff or not. If you are then I think I know what you're saying above, but there's no intelligence involved in picking the right wheels for the power. In the viscous diff case you essentially have two axle drive in slippy conditions. This is the same as 4wd in the series case and diff lock in the older RR etc. I find this a very predictable system in snow and mud. However driving an LR full time 4wd without diff lock is another matter: In snow the power will 'hunt around' all four wheels and is actually quite unnerving. If eg the front wheels momentarily spin but then find traction, the rears can then break lose and the process can repeat. A litle difficult to explain, very easy to see when it's happening. Of course you're supposed to lock the diff when this starts to happen. This ensures that both axles must spin a wheel simultaneously for all traction to be lost. BTW, if anyone still thinks they have 4wd with an open centre diff then just jack up _one_ wheel and try to drive off.... Best Regards, Steve. '79RR (manual diff lock) From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 28 10:00:08 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 10:00:08 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Misc On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, Kelly Minnick wrote: > First off, has anyone had problems getting their packages from UK out > of the hands of Federal Express? Nope. Everything destined here comes via FedEx, regular post, ship, basically anyway except UPS. UPS are terrible when you wish to bring stuff into Canada. To be avoided... From "DOUG SACKINGER" Tue Feb 28 10:39:22 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 10:39:22 EST From: "DOUG SACKINGER" Subject: More questions than anwers mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) writes snip-------------------------------------------------------- Spent 42 days in the garage 9-5 Bought SIII (Red Vinalhaven Rover) $600 Bought SIII (Blue Nantucket Rover) $300 Sold about $1400 in parts from the two. Bought $680 worth of parts from England with shipping. Spent $450 on welding the floor and chassis leg, crossmember and outrigger. snip ------------------- Are parts SIII's really that inexpensive ? I guess I only see nationally advertised vehicles in running condition. Is this pricing characteristic of the northeast ? Any higher for IIa ? Also, additional questions ( and don't you love newbie Q's ?) Are there any hard numbers from vehicle registrations/insurance companies/some industry org. as to the actual numbers of Series LRs still being operated as compared with numbers imported ? Geographical distribution by state/province in North America ? ( Sorry but geography is my bread and butter, I couldn't help but ask) Is it possible to travel to UK, buy a new US - spec D90 there and get any kind of a price break ? Used to be Mercedes and other european makes would offer special programs, I think to avoid import duty as they were personal vehicles. What about used overseas vehicles, I notice some professional importers - is it difficult - can of worms - not even worth it ? If one purchases a non-operational LR at some distance from home, would it be best to trailer, tow, or ship said vehicle? Are all LR clutches hydraulic ? Or just SIII ? I hadn't realised this from the literature. Is this any kind of problem ? Expensive/difficult to fix ? Prone to failure? It leaks, of course ? The Porter book claims problems with 6-cyl aluminum heads failing. >From what I see on this list, 6-cyl can over-stress the transmissions, both IIa and III. Can the 4-cyl possibly pull a 109" and a trailer ?, up a hill ?, at 90kph/55mph ? Oh yes, is there a LR screen saver? I had a colleague download some gifs/jpegs - good for wallpaper and slide shows. Is there anything like a SIIa rovering across terrain, wheels turning, dripping fluids etc.....? Enough questions I guess, thanks for listening and thanks for information. I'm really enjoying this list. Doug Sackinger just a digester in India - no - place From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Tue Feb 28 11:44:02 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:44:02 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Disco US Prices For those interested: Reference - Automobile Invoice Services - New car cost guide, issue 3 (1995) Land Rover Discovery, 1995 Invoice Retail Base Vehicle $26,294 $29350 Rear Air $735 $835 Emissions-CA $100 $100 Black Paint $250 $300 Power Roofs $1386 $1650 Lthr. Seats $1050 $1250 Rr. Clth Jump Seats $735 $875 Auto Trans $966 $1150 Destination Chgs. $625 $625 Draw your own conclusions. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Feb 28 08:15:34 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 08:15:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Misc > I have some misc. ramblings here... none > First off, has anyone had problems getting their packages from UK out of the > hands of Federal Express? They have held up my order for over a week 'cause [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > cylinders and repair kits and never had a problem! They must know my motor is > running and I want to finish this restoration! Hi Kelly, I'm not sure why FEDEX isn't delivering your package. Does it have to do with the contents? They don't like delivering brake parts? In my experience, they are real difficult about leaving a package at the door if you are not home, and they don't care at all about the consequences. I had frozen fish shipped from Alaska, we were out when it came, and they drove around with it all day in a hot truck. I had to go the next day and pick it up at their office in Sacto, completely thawed. Bummer. I now have all such packages shipped to my office address. UPS, on the other hand, drops stuff at the door. I will always specify UPS when I have the option (Dixon's experience with their Canadian operations not withstanding). Regards, Walt Swain From Jon Humphrey Tue Feb 28 11:15:25 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:15:25 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Radio's, CB's and C.D in Land Ro Mike L writes; >As to CB.. If you have a real small set, you could mount it somewhere on the >dash tray.. I have a older CB, pretty big one and I mounted it below the >dash, dead center, flush against the sloping part of the bottom of the >dashboard. Doesn't interfere with the gearshift at all. none Mike I mounted my CB on a shelf that I made, which extends from the lip of the top where it mounts to the windscreen. There is enough overhead room in my pickup cab that I was able to mount the CB on a bracket above the shelf. Works and looks pretty slick. I have thoughts of extending the shelf the whole way across the cab so I have a little more room to store things. Later Jon From Jon Humphrey Tue Feb 28 11:39:29 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:39:29 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: DBrown David Brown, you may want to call this person. >From: Siewruk@ix.netcom.com (Michael Siewruk) >Subject: Re: WANTED - Used Land Rover [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] >CIS: 71333,2735 >Inet: Siewruk@ix.netcom.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Feb 28 08:56:13 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 08:56:13 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Leg Room In message Steven M Denis writes: > The legroom is greater in the 109. while it is true that the 88 and the > 109 are the same from the back of the seatbox forward, none Forgive me but I still don't get it. The seat fits on the seat box. The passanger & middle seat are in fixed posistions on the seat box. The driver's seat is on adjustable rails which stop seat travel at the back of the seat box. Given that the spacing from the back of the seat box forward is the same on a 109 & 88, and the seat fits on the seat box, and the driver sits on the seat, How does more space behind the seat translate into more leg room???? You can remove the seat back stops on a 109 two door, allowing the back of the seat to lean back more giving you a more reclined seating position, but the seat bottom is still only going to go back the same amount on both models and your hips will be in the same location relative to the pedals. the bulkhead/seat > bar(sw models) dimensions are *not* the same...in a 109 2 dr the fuel > filler neck on the tank is in the cab, forward of the bulkhead, in the 88 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > bulkhead a good 3 inches further back...the seat back rests on extentions > but is *still* further away from the firewall.. The top of the seat back can rest farther back, but the bottom of the back and the bottom cushen is located in the same location on the 88 & 109. There is/ can be more space from the top of the seat back to the steering wheel. This gives more space between your torso and the steering wheel, and windscreen, BUT your hips are still in the same location 88 or 109. another proof of the > added distance is the 88 requires a spacer plate at the bulkhead to > accept the truck cab...on the 109 the rear of the cab sits on the top of > the bulkhead.. I will be happy to admit that there is more car behind the seat box of a 109 than behind the seat box on a 88. but I still do not understand how this translates to more leg space between the pedals and the bottom of the seat back which is in the same location on an 88 & 109. ..I own both...the 109 has more leg room...at 6'4" and 220 > the "little" 88 is just enough smaller to feel like a "clown car"... > the biggest improvement I have found for leg room on a 109 is to fit the > windscreen and roof from a 110..you can then use a higher seat and still > see out the top of the screen... Granted, sitting higher does increase the distance between the hips and the pedals. > steve..... > "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA > " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From C Taylor Sutherland III Tue Feb 28 12:09:11 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:09:11 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: 2.25L 4-cyl questions. In regards to the 2.25L 4-cyl they put in III's. What is the performance, availability difference between the early 3 bearing and the later 5 bearing engines? I have heard that the 3 are stronger and the 5 are more powerful, but that's all I have heard. Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks y'all. Taylor From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Tue Feb 28 09:29:05 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 09:29:05 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: rover life previously, >Taylor, the best way to learn about rovers is to just get one. I completely agree. Almost 5 years ago I bought a Sunbeam Tiger without ever driving one. At that time, a big deal for me was changing transmission and tranfer case oil on my Jeep (bought new, no problems ever, sold awhile ago). I have now rebuilt the tiger hydraulics and pulled the engine a couple years ago (and put it back in and am still driving the car!!!!!) I just bought a rover without ever driving one and drove it home from maine (it rhd no less). As TeriAnn says, people who buy rovers either sell them very soon or keep them forever. Of course, she also says people who buy rovers are Insane? crazy? (what word did you use?) and that I have answered that question with an exclamation point. Oh well, I'm happy, like Uncle rogers sig file says, "there is pleasure pure in being mad that none but madmen know." Now a question: what is the nature of floor mats that came in 109 sw's? My dormobile has thin (3mm?) rubber mats in the footwell of the rear seat area and down the middle of the rear area between the stove and the closet in the rear. Are these the standard type that came in station wagons? I am interested in putting in something thicker, for sound deadening (please no flames, I don't want absolute silence, but a reduction would be a good thing). Capital Rubber (in sac) has plain rubber in any thickeness I could want as well as other mats, one is 1/8" with diamond plate pattern, one is 3/8" very dense rubber foam, one is like carpet with polyester threads and thick rubber backing. Prices range from $4/sq. foot for the 1/4" rubber to $10 per linear foot (36 inch wide) for the carpet stuff. Any words of wisdom? TIA, John Hess, Land- -Rover Dormobile, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda GLC owner. jfhess@ucdavis.edu From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Feb 28 09:28:27 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 09:28:27 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: 2.25L 4-cyl questions. In message <199502281709.MAA21529@hubcap.clemson.edu> C Taylor Sutherland III writes: > In regards to the 2.25L 4-cyl they put in III's. What is the > performance, availability difference between the early 3 bearing and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > Thanks y'all. > Taylor I don't think Land Rovers with 5 bearing engines were officialy imported into the US. I believe they were made after 1974. You do seem to be able to purchase 5 bearing engines to replace your original 3 bearing engine with though. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "Mugele, Gerry" Tue Feb 28 10:49:00 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 10:49:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Range Rover 4.0S JPappa (Roverheadus geekoid salesmutatum): I appreciate getting the timely information on the new products, Thanks. But you didn't mention the 4.6 V-8. Is it going to be available in North America? What's the story? Tell us more. (But please drop the endless barrage of Car Sales drivel and rationalizations. I already know what cars I am interested in buying and how much I'd be willing to spend. I hope I'm not alone in preferring that this forum be free of marketing. Thanks.) Gerry 72 88 From Dixon Kenner Tue Feb 28 13:49:11 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 13:49:11 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 2.25L 4-cyl questions. On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: > In regards to the 2.25L 4-cyl they put in III's. What is the > performance, availability difference between the early 3 bearing and > the later 5 bearing engines? Taylor, in a time of rising awareness about pollution and all that shit, the various governments are slowly beginning to get their act together (unfortunately) about emission controls. Part of this process involves them determining what engine should or should not be in the vehicle. Granted the 5 bearing might be less polluting, but they won't believe that & if you happen to have a 5 bearing in your vehicle & they notice this, they will be unhappy with you. Stick to something stock and forget this wee game of mixing and matching parts from across the decades. You want a pre-1968 vehicle (To be able to get it into the USA, assuming you don't buy locally). All you have to do now is decide whether you want a 109 or an 88. Decide that and then go out and buy one. From Mike Fredette Tue Feb 28 11:39:06 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:39:06 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: Jeeps in snow Pierce writes; >Jeeps have open differentials, which means only one wheel on each drive axle >really works at a time in slippery conditions. Not only IMHO, is it less than >satisfactory, it can be downright dangerous. and then writes >Range Rovers and Defenders have full-time 4wd systems that put power to the >wheels all the time and adapt the power output to the right wheels for the >conditions. Best system in the world! Fraid I'm going to have to call bullsh-t on this one. ALL Land Rover products have OPEN diffs front and rear. The exception being someone who has put a locking diff such as an ARB or Maxi-Drive unit. The center diff IS lockable in the Disco, early Range Rovers, and all the Series vehicles have a "locked" center. Actually the Series folk don't have an option, if it's in 4wd, there is NO center diff. The later <89 Range Rovers are equipped with a viscous coupling on the center, which acts as a limited slip type device. In short, Rover 4wd systems aren't much different than Jeeps, only one wheel on each axle is getting drive in slippery conditions. And in fact, with the positraction option on the Jeeps, Rover is actually down one on the 4wd feature scorecard. Now as to what accounts for the Jeep Cherokee spinning out, I would venture to guess that it was driver error, and not neccessarily the fault of the Jeep 4wd system. Mike Fredette D90 90 Range Rover From "Mugele, Gerry" Tue Feb 28 11:43:00 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 11:43:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Why a L-R Taylor: Given that you've been such a good sport and have taken your ribbing so nicely I'd like to offer a little advice. If you have never had experience with British cars; you may be looking at this purchase inappropriately. I've noted that many (most?) LROs have substantial experience with MGs, Minis, Triumphs, Nortons, Austin Healeys, Jaguars, Cortinas, Sunbeams, etc. I'd wager that most came to Land Rovers from that route rather than from other 4X4s. I think the genesis of LR ownership has less to do with 4X4 experience and more to do with being slightly peculiar in general. I can't imagine a LRO chucking all the mechanical challenges/adventures and buying the mother-in-law's 2 year-old Explorer for $2K to use as the only mode of transport. Backup? Maybe. For the spouse? Certainly. But not at the expense of giving up the L-R. Pragmatic questions about the transmissions (Series III all synchro has never caused me any probs, ditto 2 SIIa's, heck the tranny is probably the least trouble-some piece!) are not ill-advised, they just sorta indicate a thought process very few (if any) of us went through when courting our first L-Rs. Tires, roofs, seats, all of it, L-Rs are sort of a mobile hobby/project car that's never quite done. It's a relationship, not a mode of transportation. My first one changed my life...literally. I had been a sport car fanatic. T-series MGs (lots of 'em) Mini's, Cortinas, etc. But my beloved cars kept suffering in the parking lot Grand Prix when the Battle-Star Pontiac would park nearby and the occupant would open the "pod-bay door". All 7 feet of it. The damn thing would get away from the 96 lb. granny at the helm and cave in my door. Or Bubba in his 3/4 ton pickup (with camper) would employ the tried and true Braille method for parallel parking; crunch....bump...."okay Maw, Ah'm in." Initially the L-R was at least partly self-defense. It stood hood and fenders above the crowd and was impervious to those parking-lot shunts. Even better others mostly stayed away from it. With those concerns behind me, soon I was going on adventures... everywhere... even beyond the edge of the pavement. A few years later, I learned that there are actually places L-Rs cannot go (well two or three anyway)...in the meantime, my other interests began dictating the L-R's itinerary.....I was out seeing birds, traversing old abandoned railroad right-of-ways, looking at trees, landscape and wilderness that I could not have even approached in a sports machine...and I could still take the top off every Easter, play roadster all summer and put it back on just after Labor day. Here's a rework of something I posted a few weeks ago to another curiosity victim: Sorry Taylor...but L-Rs are more of an affliction than a rational choice. You lay out the money cause you find you just can't live without one. It happened to me >25 years ago and clearly this debilitation has effected my economic status and personal sense of well-being. Over the years I've dumped alot(!) of $ into the various beasts I've owned, keeping them well. And I've never felt as secure in the middle of nowhere as I do in my 88". As Dick O'Kane, a writer, said a few decades ago: "When you're in a Land Rover you sort of get the feeling that if they dropped the big one; it would only blister the paint a little." So I guess I'm saying...if you need a logical justification to get one, then you just don't want one enough. I have had a relationship (former lady friend) with an Isuzu, it was an '86 Trooper. Fine vehicle, reliable, quiet, fairly tough, practical, clean lines, comfortable. And it would go 95% of the places I might go (off-road) in the Land Rover...but NO charisma, charm or personality. And when it went away (with the ex-lady friend) it was not a loss. Similarly, (new) wife has a 92 Mitsubishi Montero...leather seats, V6, ABS, sunroof, air-locking rear diff, traction control, etc. and it's a really nice car to drive the 1.2K miles to Moab....but once I'm there I want my L-R. All my L-Rs have been totally stock (this is not a slam to any conversions) cause I never found a need to change anything. And, here's the big one for me: in about a half million miles of LandRoving (in Iceland, Moab, Canada and just about everywhere else west of the Rockies)....I've NEVER had to walk home! Good luck with your choice. Gerry 72 88 From Russell U Wilson Tue Feb 28 14:32:35 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Re: 2.25L 4-cyl questions. On Tue, 28 Feb 1995, C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: > I have heard that the 3 are stronger and the 5 are more powerful, but > that's all I have heard. *** Any comments would be appreciated.*** Taylor, as the wise old man once said..."shit or get off the pot!!" You said "any comments would be appreciated"......so here are some thoughts. Don't be such a snivler. Go read some books, educate yourself and make a choice. This is not rocket science. If you want a Rover go buy one... I had no Rover experience what so ever when I drove from Pittsburgh to Norfolk Va. to buy mine and drive it back home. You're at Clemson....the sunny south, the land without roadsalt. The place should be ripe with older Rovers without the dreaded frame cancer. Go look at a few and buy one. Cheers Russ From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Tue Feb 28 11:54:12 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 11:54:12 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: SIII Red Stop/Brake lens All, Anyone out there have a spare early SIII Red Stop/Brake lens for sale ????? Mark From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Feb 28 11:59:17 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:59:17 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Misc Kelly Minnick wrote: > 2. The folks at Turner say the single Barrel Weber's run too lean. Is this > true? I have a rebuilt Zenith (new throttle bushings!). should I use this? > I could jet the Weber richer if we know what jet to use! When I got my smog check done, I was running a little rich. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Feb 28 11:56:40 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 11:56:40 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Radio's, CB's and C.D in Land Ro Mike Loiodice wrote: > As to CB.. If you have a real small set, you could mount it somewhere on the > dash tray.. I have a older CB, pretty big one and I mounted it below the > dash, dead center, flush against the sloping part of the bottom of the > dashboard. Doesn't interfere with the gearshift at all. This is where I have my CB mounted. I have my stereo mounted right next to it. Both are mounted such that I all the leads are on quick connects and 2 (for the CB) or 3 (for the stereo) screws are all that his needed to remove them. (I take the stereo out when I'm in really dusty conditions). This way, if I am going to be in danger of deep wading, I can easily remove them. I had though of mounting both the stereo and CB up high on the hard top, but I tend to take the top off and still want to use the CB and stereo. I mounted the speakers in the back upper courners in the hardtop where they are out of sight and out of the sun. (Also on quick connnects for ease of removing the top and two bolts each to remove them) -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Feb 28 14:57:24 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 14:57:24 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: LRO, again.... Robin writes: >Is it in the march 95 issue of LRO? *March?!?* Arrgghh! I just got February!!! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Easton Trevor Tue Feb 28 13:49:00 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 13:49:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Rust Proofing/elusive 110's The stuff called LPS. LPS 3 heavy duty rust inhibitor is a waxy long term corrosion inhibitor. It is supplied, manufactured by LPS Laboratories Tucker Georgia tel (404) 934-7800. I have used this product for years and been very satisfied and corrosion free. It really hangs on. Unfortunately it also hangs onto any passing dust particles and since it doesn't dry, it keeps doing this until the treated area resembles the Tar Sands. An annual steam clean solves this problem. Great for protecting chips on your steel mobile until you can get to the paint can. (Non silicone so it washes off with good soap) Those elusive Land Rovers Maybe they exist, maybe they don't. The supposed agent has been deluged by LR wanabees and those with opinions on why they should shouldn't be selling them. Information is supposed to be on its way regarding the terms, specifications etc. They are not EPA/DOT appoved and must be exported. Please leave them (the agents) alone unless you seriously want to buy a large consignment. As we all know most members of the list have the odd million to spare for these frivolities. From Easton Trevor Tue Feb 28 13:54:00 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 13:54:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Axle retainer straps A good substitute for the gen. part are industrial safety belts. These are a nylon/leather combination. Cut to length and mount with the leather side towards the axle. Per other cautions, they are necessary to limit travel and excessive articulation off road. You can bent important bits without then. The utilitarian nature of our pets means that if a part is there then its fairly certain that it is necessary either functionally or legally. From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 28 95 Feb EST 1915 Date: 28 Feb 95 15:10:20 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Jeep 4wd I've been corrected (rightly so) by a couple of folks on the RR/LR 4wd system. Please disregard my comments... Also, I was not aware the older Range Rovers had a different 4wd system than the new ones. Interesting. Cheers, R. P. Reid From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Tue Feb 28 12:20:44 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 12:20:44 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Brabyn Notoriety So, John, Not satisfied with the notoriety you have received in AW, you got youself (actually your Rover--you were most modestly absent from the foto) into "Readers' Rigs" in Four-Wheeler. Most appropriate that it was the issue with the test of the new Range Rover. Congrats! Definitely a leg up. In the Range Rover article there was a little sidebar about Ramp Travel Index. Clearly, all the Rovers stand alone at the top. Only the TLC and Is-you-Sue? Trooper had any aspirations to that realm. I was surprised that the Trooper did as well as it did and that the Jeep GC did as poorly as it did. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Feb 28 13:18:16 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 13:18:16 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Discovery... FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Discovery... Hank, I own a '94 (currently for sale) Mine is black, automatic, dual sunroofs, rear air cond, leather, 7 seats, rino bar, tint, etc... As you stated, offroad is a given. I've been out with friends, and ended up pulling his trooper out after getting stuck in loose river stones and shallow water. Not really sure what to tell you to watch out for, it's just one fine vehicle! Road worthiness is probably better than the others you mentioned, full time 4wd is "safer" in ice/snow/etc... the Explorer may ride a little better, but would you really want to take either a Blazer or Explorer through anything remotely resembling tough? And, how long do you expect them to last? There really IS no comparison! Check out the latest "Automobile" magazine. I just HAD to get it after scanning the comparisons of several SUV's (Explorer and Blazer included) where they basically said they were NOT AT ALL off-road worthy, and called them "station wagons with hiking boots". The Disco and Range Rover were raved about. Also, 4-Wheeler magazine rated Disco their 4WD of the year. In my opinion, the new Range Rover is going to sweep the competition (if you can call that competition) off their feet... er... "hiking boots!" Also has a price comparison, and I was surprised to find that the Trooper and Montero were MORE than the Disco after you load them all up with options. But then the Disco doesn't offer a Kleenix dispenser. Hmmmmm.... tough choice! ;-) I think your wife will like the Disco after seeing one. The dual temperature controls alone are so radically different and functional that who could turn that down! How many husbands and their wives actually are comfortable at the same temperatures? Add-on's are much cheaper at places like ARB or rovers north or.... The dealer will "rape" you. (Sorry, great guys, and service, but expensive.) I don't think you'll find the steel wheels available. It's just not an option on the US spec. vehicles. Also, the only other SUV that even offers a rear air conditioner is the Chevy Suburban. I like having it, of course, I live in Arizona where summers get over 120 degrees! (So why did I get a black truck with dual sunroofs you ask? It's a long story...) Good luck with your decision, let me know if I can help any further. P.S. I saw part of the "OP Center" movie too. First glimpse of a LR from the inside looking through the windscreen, and I blurted out to my son, "It's a Land Rover!" Fun! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From C Taylor Sutherland III Tue Feb 28 15:26:03 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:26:03 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: Sins of the net... For the LAST time! I don't see the sin, that some of you see, in asking questions about land rovers before buying them! Some of you will back me up on this, I think. True, the best way to learn about a car/truck is just to buy it and own it. Yes, I would learn a hell of a lot about it. But what I DON'T want to learn about something after I buy it, is that I don't like it. THEREFORE! I ask questions to make sure I am making the right decision! SHEESH! I ask about all the different modifications because, if I choose, I can get get them. If I didn't ask as many questions as I do, I would have gotten [name deleted] to build me a Series I with the dash of a Defender 90, coil springs, a 3.9L V8, a 20 gal gas tank, air conditioning and a a stereo. CLEARLY, THIS would be stupid and the mark of someone uneducated. Therefore, I say again, I try to educate myself in the best way I know how so as to make an EDUCATED guess as to what to get and what to expect. The only stupid question is the one that was never asked. Taylor Now I have to go break something...maybe my Blazer! Sorry, I just finished some math methods homework and a message I just received about being to whiny was the last straw! OK...I'm calm now. So what is the best way to install coil springs on a Series I? ****KIDDING!!!!!!!!****** From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Tue Feb 28 15:37:21 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:37:21 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Dash Lites Anybody got any cross reference numbers for those little pesky light bulbs in the dash on the IIA. I'm talking about the cold start, oil pressure, high beam, and alternator lights. Can I pick those up at any auto parts store or must I go to Rovers North? Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIA 88" SW BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland, USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Sanna@aol.com Tue Feb 28 15:48:09 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:48:09 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: rover life I bought a rubber pickup bed-liner and cut it to fit. This is impossibly tough stuff, made like a corded auto tire. It looks like checkered (or diamond) industrial steel plate, and is about as easy to cut. The original floor mats in a LR were black, rather thin courdorouy textured mats. From Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Tue Feb 28 12:53:07 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 12:53:07 -0800 From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Subject: re: Jeeps are Crap in the snow.... Mark Talbot writes: > I have to share this with you all. > [Story about how a Grand Cherokee crashed in the snow while attempting [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > to keep up with Mark's Range Rover. Then the Jeep driver remarked how > his GC wasn't as good in the snow as the RR.] First off, I'll come clean and admit that I own a '91 Wrangler [gasp!]. I've also owned an '88 Cherokee, '84 Toyota 4x4 pickup, and a '78 LandCruiser. I've also driven full-size Blazers and Suburbans extensively. What I've come to learn about driving in the snow (we used to get tons of the stuff in the BC interior where I grew up) is that it's more the driver, not the vehicle which makes a difference. IMHO, any driver than wipes out in the snow while attempting to pass generally doesn't know their vehicle's limits or strengths very well. The GC driver you met probably falls into that category of SUV owners who roost in the ditches whenever snow hits the ground because they think their shiny new toy will allow them to perform superhuman driving feats. In fact, it kinda sounds that way since he was blaming the accident on his vehicle rather than himself. I also subscribe to the Offroad Mailing List and this kind of "my truck is better than your truck" stuff flared-up recently, although in your case, it's more like, "our truck is better than their truck." Anyhow, I know this is a LR list so people should be extolling the virtues of these vehicles, but at least present more tangible arguments (ie: aluminum frames, xfer case gearing, etc). I guess I should also introduce myself (so you folks can flame me on a more intimdate basis ): I'm a VB programmer with the Ministry of Health in beautiful Vancouver, BC. I've been four-wheeling since I was a teen-ager although there was a period of almost 10 years when I didn't except for the occasional winter rally (Monte Carlo timing) in my Cherokee and hunting during the fall. Since getting my Wrangler/YJ last year, I've lifted it, put on 31" tires and installed a Lockrite locker in the back. My friends and I (mostly close-to-stock 4x4 pickups) do a lot of exploring in the southwestern corner of BC. Sidenote: During one winter rally, we had a particularly heavy snowfall which caused everyone to have problems maintaining their target time. In fact, the rally became a race. In one section, I overtook a number of competitors, including a new Toyota 4Runner. At the next staging area, he asked me if I had Quadratrac and I said "no, I've got part-time fourwheel drive, just like your 4Runner." This guy thought for sure that my Jeep must've had some technological advantage to pass him as fast as I did in the snow and around the corner. But the fact of the matter is, the more experience you have in the snow, the greater advantage you'll have over someone who has less. Personally, I think Mark Talbot didn't have problems whereas the GC driver did was because he was a smoother driver. The GC driver probably spun out because he gave the V8 too much gas (assuming he had a V8). Now, to be absolutely candid, the quality and perhaps reliability of the Jeep products isn't to my liking but since the demise of SWB LRs and particularly LandCruisers, there's not much choice in the way of short, rugged, convertible 4x4s which is why I bought a YJ. I have subscribed to this list to try to find out just how reliable LRs are, which model would suit my needs, what things to watch out for (the FAQ was helpful here, kudos to the authors), and sources for LR vehicles and parts. Ideally, I'd like to contact someone in the lower mainland who is into fairly severe offroading so I can see how well a LR really performs. As for my "needs", they are: - daily driver (approx 70Km per day). - reasonable power for highway driving (this may be a problem, no?). - parts availability (not too bad around Vancouver). - good performance on climbing rutted, loose-rock hills and crawling over rocks (ala Rubicon). We have something nearby called Clear Creek which is a pretty good trail for that kind of thing. - bullet-proof drivetrain. - easy to work on (LRs are probably the easiest from what I've read). - adequate ground clearance for rock crawling, preferably 9-10" below the diffs. - low gearing for those tricky descents. - 12V system. I'm not planning on buying right away so I'd mostly be lurking here to find out more about LRs. I hope I haven't offended anyone (especially Mark) by dismissing the inherent superiority of a Range Rover over a Grand Cherokee in the snow. It's just that I have a lot of hope for this list because I know that LR owners, by and large, tend to be very knowledgable about their vehicles and that's what I'm looking for. ...lars From Tom Stevenson Tue Feb 28 17:24:43 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:24:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Rapped knuckles & broken numberplate I'm typing this very slowly, since at the weekend I got slapped on the knuckles by a kicking crank handle; I must be losing my touch since this is the first time its happened in years. The LR in question had a little metal funnel widget over the crankshaft pulley dog to aid insertion of the crank handle. I wonder if this was the reason; I may have inadvertently used a left handed handle by mistake. The other damage was to the numberplate on the 90. It is stuck on to the bumper, but projects below it by about 1cm, and now has a couple of chunks missing after a close encounter with a large rock. I had been planning to move it (for weeks) to prevent this from happening. Initially I thought of sticking it on a little backplate on top of the bumper a la SIII. However, someone mentioned to me the other day that the 2.5 Turbo-diesel is not happy when airflow past the radiator is resricted by numberplates, big spotlights etc. Any thoughts? Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Feb 28 13:54:22 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 13:54:22 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Sins of the net... In message <199502282026.PAA07283@hubcap.clemson.edu> C Taylor Sutherland III writes: > the different modifications because, if I choose, I can get get them. > If I didn't ask as many questions as I do, I would have gotten [name [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > stereo. CLEARLY, THIS would be stupid and the mark of someone > uneducated. Except for the air conditioning ( I live in a fog belt on the coast), this sounds like it might be a fun rig. A series I with updated suspension & a V8 lighter than the original engine. Might just be a kick at that. Hmm I guess that makes me uneducated. Oh well TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Feb 28 17:04:54 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:04:54 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Alternators I posed this question several months ago, but didn't get any response....Has anyone found a direct, drop-in replacement for the Lucas family of alternators? I'm currently running with the 18-ACR (out of a Jag) that puts out about 45 amps...but (as Tim Allen puts it) I want MORE POWER. I found a Mitsubishi 90 amp alternator that *almost* worked...it fits Nissan fork lifts and the bottom bolts were perfect - it was even smaller than the Lucas unit. The lobe for the belt tensioner arm was about 30 degrees out of place, though. Rats. Talked to Robert Davis just a few minutes ago...he continues to "tweak" his '64 right hand drive Mercruiser/Rover pickup. Last weekend, he swapped out the 4.7 diffs for 3.9 Range Rover diffs. And he worked out the interference problem with the front prop shaft with a 1 1/4" unit (and yes, it does have sliding splines). *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Craig Murray Wed Mar 1 9:25:38 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 9:25:38 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Axle Straps > ... snip ... > >... snip ... as they restrict suspension travel, as for the talk of bent prop [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] > RR with similiar straps for precisely the reasons mentioned... > Stefan > Every one I talk to in the Land Rover club of Victoria, says that if you have axle straps to take them off, as they restrict axle travel. They say that the spring will run out of travel, before you start putting stress on the shock absorber, that is if you have the right sort of shock absorbers, ie. 110 shocks on the back of 109"s. As for the Range Rover, the shock absorber is meant to be the restricting factor with suspension travel, so that the springs don't pop out. As for my sister, she doesn't have axle straps, and that is the reason for her 88"s enourmous amount of suspension travel, I have a photo of her 88 parked in a washout, with the back wheel, full up in the guard, and the front wheel totally out of the guard, and it has 7.50 16"s on!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Tue Feb 28 14:40:32 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 14:40:32 -0800 From: Larry_Soo@mindlink.bc.ca (Larry Soo) Subject: Newbie questions - was Jeeps are crap in snow I'm posting the reply to an e-mail I received from Dixon. Since it seemed fairly innocuous, I hope he doesn't mind some of the inclusions from his original mail. Thanks for the reply, Dixon. Dixon Kenner writes: > I am also the editor of > the monthly Ottawa Valley Land Rovers newsletter, one of the two [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > decade. OVLR is the largest Land Rover club in Canada and has > an international membership. What's the membership cost and what do I get by being a member? Is there something there which isn't available via the LRO list? > There are a cuple of OVLR members out that way, but they tend to > be far and few between. > Land Rover clubs in Canada that have been around for more than a I met a guy two weeks ago who has a Lightweight LR. Maybe I can go offroading with him sometime. Even though you have few members out here, I do see quite a few LRs running around Vancouver. I guess they like to stick close to their parts supply because there's hardly any in the smaller towns. Perhaps its just the law of averages, hmm? There were two regularly maintained 88s in Princeton, where I grew up. As far as I know, one of the owners died and the other is still alive. I wanted to buy the 88 from the deceased's family but it was gone by the time I found out. > Oh yeah, thanks for the complement. I wrote the FAQ. Many parts > are from the OVLR newsletter that have been published over the > years. > decade. OVLR is the largest Land Rover club in Canada and has How often do you publish the newsletter? > The 2.25l has reasonable power, the top end just isn't there. An > overdrive will solve some of this problem. > years. I'm talking about cruising around 110Km. Is that unreasonable? If it is, I may end up considering a LandCruiser with a V8 swap. If I lived in Princeton, a 4-banger would be ok but down here, there's always an hour or more of highway driving before getting to the trailhead. And on weekends, we usually drive around 3 hours on the highway each way. This includes going up & down the mountain passes. Am I right in guessing that the weight of an 88 is around 3500lbs? > We tend to get a lot of stuff directly from England. Cost is the > main reason. Far cheaper over there... > years. I assumed the freight would be a real killer. So instead of buying from a local supplier, most people just phone England? Wow. Any clues on how to get an LR shipped to Canada? What kind of regulatory hoops need to be jumped? For what I want, which LR would you suggest? I'm not familiar with the 90s and Countys. > > - bullet-proof drivetrain. > Don't put a chevy 6 in, or boost the power by changing the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > may break, but crystalisation within them from age is also a > problem. I've noticed this. LR owners I've talked to often mention breaking half-shafts. I wasn't sure whether to attribute this to age or inherent weakness. > > - adequate ground clearance for rock crawling, preferably 9-10" > > below the diffs. > You should have 9.5" right now with a LR with good springs. > decade. OVLR is the largest Land Rover club in Canada and has none With what size tires? BTW, what's the final gear reduction of a Series IIa or III in first-low? BTW, with regards to my previous soap-box speech about the Grand Cherokee in the snow story, I realized that my subsequent questions about LandRover "performance" seemed hypocrytical. By asking about performance on hills, I was, in my own obtuse and convoluted way, wondering how well the suspension allows the wheels to follow the terrain. Hmm...the more I write, the more it seems my foot goes deeper and deeper. Time to lurk. ...lars From Craig Murray Wed Mar 1 9:43:07 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 9:43:07 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 2.25L 4-cyl questions. > In regards to the 2.25L 4-cyl they put in III's. What is the > performance, availability difference between the early 3 bearing and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Thanks y'all. > Taylor I believe that there is no disernable difference in power, but the 5 bearing motors are stronger. I'm not sure when the 5 bearing motors came out, but I think it was in the early 80's, maybe 83, when they released the 110". -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | Systems Administrator | Ambition is a poor excuse for not having CP Software | the sense to be lazy. 1st Floor | 493 St Kilda Road | -- Charlie McCarthy Melbourne VIC 3004 | mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | Note: I do not take any responcibility for spelling mistakes. flames > /dev/null From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 28 17:57:06 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:57:06 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Leg Room OK, OK!! I'll go measure the 109 sw which is right outside then I'll go measure the 88's.... ..the 109 PU is 75 miles away so we can forget that one...I'll delay this message and you can whistle while I'm gone.................................................. ................................................ (sounds of a Land Rover driving off in the rain.....squeal of brakes, he's back..) The 109 measures approx. 30 inches from the bottom of the seatback to the bottom edge of the dash....and the 88 measures .....wot the 'ell ?!?!?! 30 inches!!!!!! I sit in the 88..Ummmph..tight fit...sit in the 109.. spacious....now wait .....w/o dimensioning this to death..(it's 5 miles each way to the 88's) I'll defer to lady...the *LEG* room of the two models is the same....*BUT*!!!I'm *Jammed* in the 88 with my knees up and the steering wheel in my gut....It *has* to be the backrest angle..... I *cannot* drive the 88 without my trick knee acting up...the 109 is uncomfortable but not so bad.....hmmmmmmmm......*I'LL* get to the bottom of this yet!.... volumetrically challenged rover owner steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Mike Fredette Tue Feb 28 15:15:32 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:15:32 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: Alternators Sandy asks: >I posed this question several months ago, but didn't get any >response....Has anyone found a direct, drop-in replacement for the Lucas >family of alternators? Doug Shipman is a big fan of using the Delco 64 amp internally regulated alternators pt number 7127 or some such. It's a VERY tight fit but it does fit. The mounting holes line up, as does the pully. I think the adjuster arm needs a bit of massaging, but no big deal. I've seen these installations Doug does on some of his restorations and they really work well. If you want more details give him a call at 503 252 5566. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Orygun From David John Place Tue Feb 28 17:29:41 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:29:41 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: rover life I have found that the rubber mats used on loading docks is great for Land Rovers. It is about 1/2" thick and therefore a good sound deadener. It is also very durable and can be taken out and washed when dirty. It does not roll up mind you so when you take it out, it stays flat for cleaning. Because it is so heavy, it makes a good mat if you get stuck. Dave VE4PN From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 28 18:40:48 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 18:40:48 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: RRpurchases To those requesting RR purchase tips- Stephan Jacob (I think), fellow lrolister, recently submitted a report that appeared in ROAV's (or maybe OVLR's) newsletter a few months back. It detailed the "what to look for and what to look out fors" of RR purchasing. Perhaps he could send that on to the list (I don't recall ever seeing it except in the newsletter ). I looked back into some files I once saved when contemplating a RR purchase (I regained my senses). Unfortunately, there is not a complete discussion of the merits of '89 over '88 specifically. If there were, I'd of sent it on. rd/nige From David John Place Tue Feb 28 17:49:42 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 17:49:42 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Leg Room I think if you measure the dividing wall from the dash, the 109 is about 6" farther back and therefore the seat angle is steeper. This gives the impression that the cab is bigger. The truck top needs a 6" spacer on the 88 to compensate for this difference. The new Defender solved this by cutting out the centre wall and putting the roll bar back there. We could do the same thing I think. Dave VE4PN From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 28 18:19:49 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 18:19:49 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Click and Clack on the Disco > The local Public Radio station aired a Click and Clack tape this morning > with a call from Mary in Vermont trying to decide between a Grand Cherokee [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Ultimately they did note that the Discovery actually has a very special > character, as opposed to the bland personality of the Jeep (same as Ford > Explorer, etc) and encouraged her to get the Discovery. CandC have come a long way. About a year ago, they told some poor woman to buy a Toyota for her trip across Africa, citing the lack of available parts of older Land Rovers (her first choice). I wonder how far she got. > Then came the zinger; while on the subject of getting a Land Rover > serviced or repaired, one of them said it didn't matter, they fix them on > the Internet! Are these guys wired? Probably just have good information > sources, but it was fun. I suspect one of us got on their case bigtime, then clued them in. rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 28 19:45:11 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:45:11 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Cheap 110s? > 3)the "CURRENTLY IN NORTH AMERICA" bunch that claimed to have "ALL VEHICLES ARE > BUILT TO MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS WITH CALIFORNIA EPA AND DOT APPROVAL, which As Robin (and others) have pointed out before, this statement DOES NOT mean these vehicles are DOT/EPA approved! Read it carefully, in legaleze....it says they are built to SPECS that are EPA and DOT approved. Buyer beware, rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 28 19:55:43 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:55:43 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Axle Straps > Hi all, > All that I have been told about axle straps is, that if you are [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > shafts, I have never seen one, and my sisters 88" has more suspension > travel than a 110" through extended shakels and very tired leaf springs! And I've been told the opposite.....remove them and in serious off road situations you increase the risk of a rollover. Their purpose is to limit body roll (by keeping the axles at some maximum distance from the frame). In the "resting state", the straps should hand just below the axle. You only limit your downward travel, and the springs themselves will probably stop downward travel as soon or sooner than your straps will. but who knows......my straps are off right now (but I've a new set to install before the Bday party). oops, did I say that? rd/nigel From Craig Murray Wed Mar 1 11:56:25 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 11:56:25 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Axle Straps > > Hi all, > > All that I have been told about axle straps is, that if you are [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] > oops, did I say that? > rd/nigel The axle straps might be there to prevent body roll on a side slope, but most people will stop before they get anywhere near rolling, and remember that you have to get the thing onto about 45 degrees before it will roll any way, which is better than all of the other four wheel drives that I can think of, except the hummer, but I don't know about that, as I don't think you can get them out here. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 28 20:52:23 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 20:52:23 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Leg Room The 110 sw has no divider bar and the seats are moved back quite a bit..there seems to be no reason why I can't push the seats back in the 109 (no extra reinforcing in the 110) if I need the leg room.(I do..) cutting the bulkhead in an 88 looks to be a *PROJECT*.....BYW the 90's I was in (euro-spec) had plenty of leg room...much of the wheelbase seems to be in the rear tub and the bulhead *appears* to be like the 109 2 dr..IE: back further......any input from the UK???? steve..... and don't measure in metric..we Bazootieheads can't convert it!!!! 2.54...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Mar 1 13:56:08 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 13:56:08 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:3.9i series I Taylor writes: > If I didn't ask as many questions as I do, I would have gotten [name > deleted] to build me a Series I with the dash of a Defender 90, coil > springs, a 3.9L V8, a 20 gal gas tank, air conditioning and a a > stereo. Ohh Yeh get me one too. When is the next RTV trial, let me at em. 80", 3.9V8 auto, discs, drool drool slobber pant lust :-) > CLEARLY, THIS would be stupid and the mark of someone uneducated. Why ?? Provided the g/box was from the same source as the 3.9i I would suggest that this combination gives the best of many worlds. Look in LRO magazine and see how many similar set ups are trialled. > The only stupid question is the one that was never asked. True. But with Land-Rovers no one answer is correct, it all has to be weighed up by the questioner. Horses for courses so to speak. cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Tue Feb 28 19:27:39 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:27:39 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Brabyn Notoriety Many thanks Granville -- I haven't seen it yet, and am a bit surprised they used it!! All you LRO folks should write in too so we can get the point across to the magazines that one brand of 4X4 doesn't need all those lifts and decorative bolt-ons to get down the trail! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Tue Feb 28 22:33:42 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 22:33:42 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Correction To all the people with Series I's outfitted like I said would be stupid... You know what I mean. I didn't mean to be specific. My point may have been lost when I started screaming. :) Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Tue Feb 28 19:39:39 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 19:39:39 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Jeeps in snow That's right Steve -- and I believe there is a Jeep system called Quadratrac that is similar to the current RR one with a viscous diff lock & full time 4wd; however the vast majority of Jeeps use the part time Command Trac or Selectrac (the latter has a center differential and can be used on pavement, but Command Trac doesn't and can't). Most likely the Jeep in the story (which I think is a great story anyway) was still in 2WD?? If it was in 4WD I expect the effects would be different according to which of the Jeep options for 4WD it had. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Tue Feb 28 19:44:01 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 19:44:01 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: UK LR training spots Hullo to All! I'm new to the group, so I'll provide a quick summary. I drive a '94 Defender 90 and have been for almost a year having decided to buy one more or less as soon as they became available over here (Berkeley, California)[I guess I just didn't have a respectable amount of debt at the time :)]. I don't have a vast knowledge of Land Rovers (yet) but have always longed to own one; which is the most fundamental reason after all! I seem to have vague memories of being bitten by the bug around the age of 7 (Lewis Leakey/National Geographic films?). However, despite a few close calls and the occasional turn behind the wheel of a SIII and D110, I never quite got my hand on a Series version. But destiny being what it is I have now done my part (or the banks?)to contribute to the US foreign trade imbalance and undertaken a hopefully long term (20yr+?) plan of LR ownership. [Of course, being a joint UK/Canadian citizen it does seem only right that I should be repatriating some US funds.] But enough piffle. I work as a geologist so I do a bit of four wheeling both professionally and recreationally; the D90 seems a rather excellent vehicle in addition to being a lot more fun than the pickups I was used to [even on the freeway with tire and softop noise]. Which brings me to my first question for anyone out there who can assist: I'm planning a trip to the UK in October for a few weeks, and I'm considering visiting one of the off road centres for some LR/4x4 instruction. I have a large number of addresses and tel. numbers (mostly from the recent Land Rover World), but was wondering if anyone on the other side of the puddle could provide recommendations on sites before I start sifting through the long distance telephone calls. I'd be looking for one that provides vehicles since I won't have one with me (BritRail and canal boats don't you know). Ideally they'd have training available for myself and companion at the novice level in a D90 (Disco or Series as 2nd choice) preferably with winching instruction available and be reasonably accessible by train and bus (coach?). While I'm on it does anyone know what one can expect to pay for a day's (or 2??) training and are there limitations placed on yanks (beware the land of the left hand lawyer)? [I always thought the UK "solicitor" had more appropriate connotations.] If you like please feel free to E-mail me direct. Cheers, Jeremy Bartlett Berkeley, CA jjbpears@ix.netcom.com "Four Wheels Good - Two Wheels Bad" From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 28 23:10:48 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 23:10:48 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Radio's, CB's and C.D in Land Ro Jon Humphrey sez... > Mike L writes; > >As to CB.. If you have a real small set, you could mount it somewhere on none ............ And Jon replies > Mike I mounted my CB on a shelf that I made, which extends from the lip > of the top where it mounts to the windscreen. There is enough overhead Jon... Mark Talbot has a SerIII and I presume he has the full interior. There is a finishing piece that covers the joint between the windshield and roof. I suppose if you were very clever, you could mound a very small radio and/or CB up there.. Can't do what you did because of the headliner. I have seen a real nice setup where the center seat was replaced with a cubby box which held a radio and space for cassettes, etc. Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 28 23:11:06 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 23:11:06 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Rapped knuckles & broken numberplate Tom Stevenson... knuckle rapper! > I'm typing this very slowly, since at the weekend I got slapped on the > knuckles by a kicking crank handle; I must be losing my touch since this [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > the crank handle. I wonder if this was the reason; I may have > inadvertently used a left handed handle by mistake. Ouch! Back when I was a lad on the farm, more years ago than I care to think about, we had a big Oliver tractor. If it had an electric starter, I don't remember, since the only way to start it was by cranking it. The crank was about the size of the Rover crank but permanently mounted and about waist high. Turning the bugger over was no easy task, especially for a skinny teen-ager. I distinctly remember one fine day when I happened to be in the wrong place when it kicked back... caught me square in the chest and threw me back 6 or 8 feet! Knocked the wind right out of me.. Had a *lot* more respect for the beast after that! Cheers Mike From rmodica@east.pima.edu Tue Feb 28 21:16:38 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 21:16:38 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: March LRO already? Just caught up on the last few days of the Digest, and I'm beginning to think there are two different publications called LRO. Robin writes that he already got his March LRO. I just got my Feb LRO on 2/27. Does yours come via something called "TELESORT, Inc" out of NY or direct from England? Why should there be a month's difference in delivery? Sandy-- What is the "breakfast" on a 109? I missed the "Op Center" broadcast. Dixon-- What is "IRC", or is this another Series Three Taylor put on? Lastly - Regarding the comments on somebody standing in front of a British flag in the Feb LRO article on the ROVA getogether. I've looked through the entire issue and the only flag I see is on page 107 and it's on top of a building. Are we getting the same magazine? Rob Modica 1951 SI 80" Hardtop 16136629 Tucson AZ 1960 SII 109 Safari SW 164000620 1994 Disco 5spd formerly owned 1967 SIIA 88" 24420297B Anyone seen it? From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Feb 28 20:34:37 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 20:34:37 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: March LRO already? Rob Modica wrote: > Dixon-- What is "IRC", or is this another Series Three Taylor put on? Internet Relay Chat. Its a real time interactive talk session via computer. think of it as a typed N party line where N can be very large (or as small as 2) > Lastly - Regarding the comments on somebody standing in front of a > British flag in the Feb LRO article on the ROVA getogether. I've looked > through the entire issue and the only flag I see is on page 107 and it's on > top of a building. Are we getting the same magazine? In the ROVA article: ( on page 187(?) ) If you look at the picture of the NATO 109 Pickup crossing a small stream/puddle in the upper right hand corner of the photo is a blue SIII. If you look closely there is a roof rack on the SIII and a CB antenna sticking up from the SIII's left rear corner. At the top of this antenna is a red/blue/white drooping flag which is a Union Jack. But you'd only know that if you knew what you were looking at. (the SIII is mine btw) -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From ra.walker@qut.edu.au (Rodney Walker) Wed Mar 01 14:27:39 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 14:27:39 +1000 From: ra.walker@qut.edu.au (Rodney Walker) Subject: HELP PLEASE - RIVNUTS !!!! Can someone out there please help me locate some RIVNUTS! These are the correct fastener that is used to mount a capstan winch to an early landrover. They are similar in operation to a NUTSERT, but they have a hex head that protrudes outside of the job so that they can be put in without special tools. Does anyone have any idea what I'm on about? Does anyone know if Craddocks stocks them?? Best regards Rod Walker ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rodney A. Walker 44 Ford GPW Space Centre for Satellite Navigation 44 Willys MB Queensland University of Technology 88 Cherokee George St, Brisbane 90 Wrangler 4000, Queensland, Australia 85 CJ7, 85 J10 voice +61-7-8705187 44 GPA, 44 Dodge Truck fax +61-7-8641517 79 Cherokee Cheif 56 CJ3B 55 Series 1 Land Rover 53 Series 1 Land Rover ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Mar 1 15:21:51 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 15:21:51 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Guilt trip. Oh The guilt! Like some others I've "picked" on Taylor a bit, Hey he seems like a nice enough guy, he wants the knowledge to make an informed decision, and in many ways is to be congratulated for that. So why pick on him???? Maybe because I(we) feel that purchase of a Land-Rover, particularly older ones is not a decision that can be rationalised a priori. To me (and I suspect many others of "us") it is more an emotional thing which we later (attempt to) rationalise. How many of us bought a Land-Rover because we *wanted a Land-Rover*, regardless of price/condition/comfort, it just had to be a Land-Rover didnt it ? I bought my first Land-rover because i couldnt afford one of the Rice rockets, lots of people said I was crazy (maybe they were right). It never really occured to me at the time that the mere fact I could buy a 20 odd year old Land-Rover at all must say something about the Marque. Now I wouldnt consider a non Land-Rover, it is simply no longer an option. (Ok I 'fess maybe a 'Mog) It is truely commendable on Taylors part that he wants to go in with his eyes open. I wonder if I would have bought that '67 109 if I had know "the Dark side"? However I fear the more information needed to rationalise a Land-Rover purchase the less likely it is that the new owner will be happy with his new family member. Who was it that said, " Land-Rover are like women/men, You cant live with them and you cant just leave them by the side of the road" Well I've ranted enough and wasted enough bandwidth again. Comments anyone? -- Daryl (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From "Barry Dudley" Tue Feb 28 23:47:31 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 23:47:31 +200 From: "Barry Dudley" Subject: UUENCODED file: SUM-V.CP part 1 of 1 section 1 of uuencode of file SUM-V.CP begin 644 SUM-V.CP M_U=00Q0&```!"@`!`````/O_!0`R`,T````&`!````!"````#`!:````4@`` M``D``@```*P````'`!\```"N````$!%\`'@````!`````````$5P#!>,"@````010,D`A\\!``$````````````8``4'@P7C`H``````M>P!+`$L`2P!`````````````````````````$````` M`````````````````````````/<`"]`T```````````````````````````! 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M("`W@PK"`5@""`<(!P\`PL(`6`)@"6`)%`#"P@!8`K@+N`L9`,+!@&`)8`D4 M`,$R+L(```"X"[@+&0#"PPS#1G5E;"!-:6QE86=EQ`S$QKH?N`O&P7"J(!(B M10#!("`X@PK"`5@""`<(!P\`PL(`6`)@"6`)%`#"P@!8`K@+N`L9`,+!@&`) M8`D4`,$S+L(```"X"[@+&0#"PPS#5F5H:6-L92!);B!$965P(%=A=&5RQ`S$ MQKH?N`O&P7"J(!(B10#!("`Y@PH*P@%8`@@'"`2!O<&5R871I;VYSQ`S$ MQKH?N`O&P7"J(!(B10#!(#$Q@PH*P@%8`@@'"`#``!U,(!6`((!P@'#P#"P@!8`F`)8`D4`,+!@`@'"`2!3=&]R86=E($-A<&%C:71YQ`S$QKH?N`O&P7"J(!(B10#! M(#0T@PK4`0P```:3`#<`L@0,``'4P@%8`@@'"`#!>,"@```-`VPB8!```````````````````````````` M````````````````````````````T#;")@$`4W1A;F1A Tue Feb 28 23:47:31 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 23:47:31 +200 From: "Barry Dudley" Subject: REPLY TO MARK (OVERLANDING) HI MARK, TRIED TO SEND THIS TO YOU VIA YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS BUT IT JUST BOUNCED BACK. I have been thinking of doing an OVERLAND trip from South Africa up africa to the UK. Taking about 6 months, with one vehicle but there will be 4 (have 3 so far) of us. I have a couple of files concerning EQUIPMENT, VEHCILE PREP, ETC that you may find useful. Shout if you would like to see any section in them. Good luck in your trip - the most fun is the preperation and then the journey and finally (way done) is actually getting there! One thing we have learnt is do not try to get too far in a day, I.E. never travel more than 5-6 hours a day. Cheers Barry /==============\ BARRY DUDLEY | | | E-MAIL: DUDLEY@MICR.UNP.AC.ZA [|______|_______|] UNIVERSITY OF NATAL, PMB /___/^^^^^^\___\ |(@) [####] (@)| 67 JESMOND ROAD | o [####] o | SCOTTSVILLE ======%%%%====== PIETERMARITZBURG {*}==={&&}==={*} 3201 SOUTH AFRICA {*} {*} PH - 0331 - 63123 WONDERING JOY; SIII; 1983; STATION WAGON; FORD V6 3L MOTOR NOTE: This mail message has enclosures, 2 more mail message(s) follow. The files are: A-CP SUM-V.CP uuencoded --- From "Barry Dudley" Tue Feb 28 23:47:31 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 95 23:47:31 +200 From: "Barry Dudley" Subject: Enclosure file: A-CP TRANS AFRICA TRIP CONTENTS PAGE 2. INTRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3. CONTRIBUTORS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3.1. PEOPLE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3.2. BOOKS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3.3. INTERNET . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3.3.1. LAND ROVER FAQ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3.3.2. STUDENT AND BUDGET TRAVEL RESOURCE GUIDE: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3.3.3. Alt.Travel.Road-trip . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3.3.4. 4 Wheels On... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.3.5. Tourism in South Africa. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.3.6. THE AFRICAN NEWS & INFORMATION SERVICE . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.3.7. malawi discussion list . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.3.8. soc.culture.african. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.3.9. rec.travel library . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 3.3.10. TRAVEL-ADVISORIES MAILING LIST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3.3.11. Rec.Travel.Misc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3.3.12. ROUND-THE-WORLD TRAVEL GUIDE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3.3.13. Ford Explorer Owners . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 3.3.14. Offroad mailing list . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 3.3.15. LAND ROVER OWNERS LIST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 4. PERSONAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 4.1. INTRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 4.2. REQUIREMENTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 4.2.1. WARM WEATHER GEAR. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 4.2.2. WET/COLD WEATHER GEAR. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 4.2.3. OTHER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 4.3. DOCUMENTS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 4.4. POST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 4.5. LANGUAGE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 4.6. DAILY ROUTINE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 4.7. BOOKS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 5. CAMPING. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 5.1. INTRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 5.2. ACCOMMODATION. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 5.3. WATER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 5.3.1. Boil or Filter?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 5.3.2. water filters. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 5.4. COOKING STUFF. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 5.5. FOOD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 5.5.1. GENERAL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 5.5.2. BREKFAST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 5.5.3. LUNCH. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 5.5.4. SUPPER . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 5.6. CAMP FRIDGES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 6. FIRST AID. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 6.1. INTRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 6.2. VACCINATIONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 6.3. MEDICAL KIT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 6.4. MEDICAL PROBLEMS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 6.4.1. MALARIA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 6.4.2. HEAT . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 6.4.3. DIARRHOEA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 6.4.4. DYSENTERY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 6.4.5. INSECTS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 6.4.6. BILHARZIA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 7. MONEY. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 7.1. INTRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 7.2. PERSONAL BANK GUARANTEE/CREDIT LETTER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 7.3. COST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 7.4. BUDGETING TRIP . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 7.4.1. BEFORE DEPARTURE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 7.4.2. DURING TRIP. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 7.4.3. EXCHANGE RATES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 8. GENERAL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 8.1. TIME . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 8.2. 2ND VEHICLE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 8.3. TRAVEL COMPANIONS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 8.4. WHEN TO TRAVEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 8.5. DESERT SURVIVAL SAFETY TIPS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 8.5.1. RECOMMENDED SURVIVAL ITEMS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 a. PERSONAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 9. VEHICLE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9.1. INTRO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9.2. DOCUMENTS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9.3. LAND ROVER INFORMATION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9.3.1. LICENCE DETAILS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9.3.2. ENGINE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9.3.3. DIMENSIONS:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 9.3.4. TRANSMISSION:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 9.3.5. STEERING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 9.3.6. BRAKES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 9.3.7. SUSPENSION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 9.3.8. WHEELS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 9.3.9. BODY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 9.3.10. REQUIREMENTS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 a. LIGHTING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 b. GAUGES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 c. BATTERIES. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 d. SECURITY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 e. FUEL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 f. VEHICLE STRENGTHENING. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33 g. DAILY INSPECTIONS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 h. Seat Belts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 9.3.11. GETTING UNSTUCK. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 a. GENERAL MAINENANCE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 9.4. EQUIPMENT LIST . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 9.4.1. VEHICLE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 a. SAFETY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 9.4.2. SPARES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 a. FILTERS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 b. ELECTRICAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35 c. ENGINE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 d. FLUIDS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 e. WHEELS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 f. ELECTRICAL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 g. PERSONNEL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 h. VEHICLE GENERAL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 i. ENGINE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 j. EXPENSIVE SPARES CONSIDER TAKING . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 9.4.3. TOOLS. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 a. EMERGENCY/STUCK. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 b. ENGINE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 c. GENERAL. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 d. BODY . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 e. LITERATURE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 38 9.4.4. ADVICE FROM DESERT MEN:. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 9.5. Conversion chart . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 39 10. ROUTE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 10.1. INTRODUCTION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 10.2. MAPS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 10.3. ROUTE RESTRICTIONS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 10.4. VISA REQUIREMENTS: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 42 10.5. DETAILED ROUTE DESCRIPTION . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 10.6. SOUTHERN AFRICA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 10.6.1. ADVICE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 10.6.2. SOUTH AFRICA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 10.6.3. NAMIBIA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 10.6.4. BOTSWANA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 10.6.5. ZIMBABWE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49 10.6.6. MOZAMBIQUE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 50 10.6.7. Zambia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52 10.6.8. MALAWI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 54 10.7. CENTRAL AFRICA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 10.7.1. ADVICE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 10.7.2. TANZANIA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 10.7.3. KENYA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 56 10.7.4. UGANDA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 10.7.5. ZAIRE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 10.7.6. CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 10.8. WEST AFRICA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 10.8.1. Advice . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 10.8.2. CAMEROON . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 10.8.3. NIGER. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 10.8.4. Algeria. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 10.8.5. Algeria. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65 10.8.6. Nigeria. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 10.8.7. MOROCCO. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 10.9. NORTHERN AFRICA. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 10.9.1. ADICE. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 10.9.2. SUDAN. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 10.9.3. EGYPT. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 69 10.10. OTHER AFRICAN STATES . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 10.10.1. CHAD . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 10.10.2. MALI . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 10.10.3. MAURITANIA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 10.10.4. Guinea . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 74 10.10.5. Equatorial Guinea. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77 10.10.6. Ghana. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 10.10.7. Gambia . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 81 10.10.8. Gabon. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 83 10.10.9. Liberia. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84 10.10.10. Sierra Leone . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 86 10.10.11. Syria. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 88 10.10.12. Burkina Faso . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90 10.10.13. Cote d'Ivoire. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 92 10.10.14. Yemen. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 94 10.10.15. Sudan. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96 10.10.16. Swaziland. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 98 10.10.17. Togo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 99 11. PLANNING A TRIP THROUGH AFRICA BY Richard Jordan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 102 11.0.1. trip advice. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106 11.1. Long cold nights - a trip to alexandria. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108 TRANS AFRICA TRIP 2. INTRO. I have attempted to bring all the information collected by a few us us going on A TRANS-AFRICAN TRIP LATER THIS YEAR. The information is directed for a low-budget, small group with 6 months to do it. Own transport as a LAND ROVER will be used. THE OVERLAND TRIP ACROSS THE AFRICAN CONTINENT IS STILL ONE OF THE GREATEST MOTORING CHALLENGES IN THE WORLD. ONE DOES NOT NEED A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY, JUST AMBITION TO UNDERTAKE SUCH AN EXPEDITION, AND THE PERSEVERANCE TO PUSH THROUGH WITH THE PLANNING AND THE ACTUAL TRIP TO THE From "T.F. Mills" Wed Mar 1 00:53:38 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 00:53:38 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: More questions than anwers Doug Sackinger asks: < companies/some industry org. as to the actual numbers of Series LRs < still being operated as compared with numbers imported ? Geographical < distribution by state/province in North America ? ( Sorry but < geography is my bread and butter, I couldn't help but ask) The info is available from state mv depts., but you have to pay a bundle for the service. I too am curious, btu not curious enough to pay. My son counted about 80 Series LRs in Colorado during 1994. (He has the exact count, but I don;t know where.) I know of about 20 that he missed. Twenty yrs ago, I think LR claimed 84% of all their vehicles were still on the road. I think the most recent claim is 67%. No idea how they come up with these figures, but I'm sure Dixon can compute how many vehicles that comes to! < Oh yes, is there a LR screen saver? I had a colleague download some < gifs/jpegs - good for wallpaper and slide shows. Is there anything < like a SIIa rovering across terrain, wheels turning, dripping fluids < etc.....? If you have Windows, you can draw your own in Paintbrush and load it as wallpaper. My son (clever guy!) has a whole collection that we rotate on the screen. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Mr Ian Stuart Wed Mar 1 08:33:38 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 08:33:38 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: More questions than anwers > Is it possible to travel to UK, buy a new US - spec D90 there and get No. Only the US has the D90 (with bikini-top, roll-bar & V8), we just get the 90 defender (with tdi300) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Wed Mar 1 03:38:52 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 03:38:52 EST From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: HELP PLEASE - RIVNUTS !!!! Well, having gone through the rivnut odessy, I can say that what you are looking for is not the standard trademarked RIVNUT (manufactured by BF Goodrich). The RIVNUT's I've seen and used to mount my 2nd gas tank had only a shallow, round flange and required the use of an installation tool. Too bad you are in the land of oz, or I could loan you the tool and some RIVNUTS... -jory >Can someone out there please help me locate some RIVNUTS! >These are the correct fastener that is used to mount a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Does anyone have any idea what I'm on about? >Does anyone know if Craddocks stocks them?? From Mike Rooth Wed Mar 1 9:15:45 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 9:15:45 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Guilt trip. Agreed,agreed,Daryl.Right on mate(ahem,sorry). I remember making an awful lot of excuses to The Domestic Authority,like"I want a good,old fashioned English OHV engine like the ones I was brought up on".True.I did. With no f*****g elctronics on it.And,"Well, I'm fed up with trying to get hay and straw out of cars,you can just sweep these things out".But the truth of the matter was "I want one". I remember being distinctly angry when the Range Rover came out because the press had it that it would replace the Land Rover. Just shows you shouldnt believe the papers. Although the DA didnt want one.when it threw a valve and was off the road for a while,she actually started to badger me to get it repaired.She *missed* it.Said she used to see them on the road and want to shout "We've got one,but its poorly". And we are both old enough to know better. Suffice it to say its the only vehicle I possess,and I've already had it longer than any other I've ever owned,and have no intentions of selling it.And it has its twenty fifth birthday in October. Wonder what to buy it?Suggestions on a postcard..... Cheers Mike Rooth PS Bill C.In the time you've been over here,is there any significant difference you've noticed in the way we regard our Rovers,to the way they are regarded/treated in the US? From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Feb 28 22:48:46 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 22:48:46 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Breakover Angles Craig Murray wrote: >The axle straps might be there to prevent body roll on a side slope, but >most people will stop before they get anywhere near rolling, and remember [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >can think of, except the hummer, but I don't know about that, as I don't >think you can get them out here. 45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope! The Hummer spec's claim a 40 % (percent) side slope capability, or about 23.6 degrees. Jeep Cherokees have a 'breakover' angle of 23.1 degrees, while the Mercedes Benz Unimog* has a 42 % sideslope, or about 24.8 degrees. The 1993 Range Rover County brochure claims a breakover angle of 29 degrees, or 48.5 % percent, while the 1993 Range Rover County LWB claims 27 degrees in standard height and 30 degrees in high profile (a 1:2 slope) Although they must have that backwards since the high profile must be raising the center of gravity. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com *see Unimogs at ftp://ftp.crl.com/ftp/users/ro/cs/unimog.html From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 28 23:01:31 1995 Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 23:01:31 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Overlanding > > That's one of the worries I have about my dream trip (Top of Europe to > > the bottom of africa and back) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > That is one hell of a long trip! > We are talking about several months just for Africa! I figure at least a year, two if possible. I want to see Europe because it's Europe and my Dad's from there, but Africa is the real draw for me. When I was a wee thing I got invited to a mostly Nigerian celebration (my sister is sort of an honorary Nigerian) and the food was incredible. I want to experience the cultures, music, and foods of Africa. And see the Kalahari. Don't ask me where I get it from. My dad is a CPA who loves Opera. Went camping *once* prior to High School. My mom's idea of roughing it is anything less than four stars. I'm a computer nerd. Go figure. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Spenny@aol.com Wed Mar 1 07:01:36 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 07:01:36 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Miscerovius Jim writes: Yatta, Yatta, Blabba, Blabba, snip... do you ever talk about anything other than new rovers at the dealerhip where you **work** Roverspam geekspam salesspam BTW some of the other BSROA members are still waiting for our second newsletter for which we shelled out $40/yr **makes LRO look like a good deal** we still get notices asking us to come to some rally for $27.95 and vote on the nicest of 3 identical D90s, D110s, Discos or RRs (I don't have anything against any of these vehicles, I just think it is pointless to to pick the nicest of 3 identical, stock, less than 1 year old vehicles) Its a popularity contest. We might as well pick the bleeding landrover homecoming queen. Luckily I joined in July and only had to shell out $20 for one issue, to which I will add is horribly created, and more awfully produced. It has a more ads than any other club newsletter, has the **worst** production values, and is **still the most expensive** for $40/yr - $10-20 per issue this should be printed, bound, and have halftones (photos) that are viewable and every issue should come with a different whitworth spanner. (not spammer) This is the worst club deal going. Look at other clubs: OLVR- $20 - 12/yr ROAV (Gearbox)- $20 - 4+/yr LORA (Aluminum Workhorse) - $20 - 4/yr Sollihull Society - $20 - 4/yr BSROA - $40 - 2-3-4?/yr Where does all that money go, Jim, who is the owner of record for the 107, for which you are asking for cash, parts and labor donations? Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From "Lapa, Hank" Wed Mar 01 08:38:45 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 95 08:38:45 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Subject: Prospective Disco David and others, Thanks for the response. I visited the other 50% of L-R dealers in my area last night to get a 2nd opinion on wait time. The suit told me 3-6 months. Guess I'd better call wifey in Okinawa and get permission to put the deposit down NOW. Maybe I'd better buckle down and do me taxes first to make sure I'm still viable. Is this a great country, or what? Basic 5-speed Coniston Green from the dealer and all the add-on goodies from good ole RN and AB seems to be the consensus. BTW, only had Defs and RRs on the lot at the Fairfax dealer. That bright blue on the new RRs is a total abomination...unless you're putting on one of those lights-going-around-the-periphery license plate holders and shag carpetting the dashboard, of course. Also, saw O.J. "squeeze" Tawny Kitaen on trash TV the other night running away from pseudo-journalists in a black Calif-plated RR. Is she on the celeb owner list? Though adding a new Disco to the '60 109 in the driveway won't have the same neighbor shock value as, say, a big old Forward Control, I'm looking forward to it quite a lot. The kids will love it almost as much as a F/C, and the ex- will be even more pissed. Life is good, Hank From Dixon Kenner Wed Mar 1 09:26:55 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 09:26:55 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: March LRO already? On Tue, 28 Feb 1995 rmodica@east.pima.edu wrote: > Just caught up on the last few days of the Digest, and I'm beginning to think > there are two different publications called LRO. Three. One on paper that arrives late, a second that arrives more or less on time (ramdomizing supplied by magazines being addressed with a pentium processor and going via Bermuda Triangle) and this mailing-list if printed out. > Robin writes that he already got his March LRO. I just got my Feb LRO > on 2/27. Does yours come via something called "TELESORT, Inc" out of NY or > direct from England? Why should there be a month's difference in delivery? Why is there two weeks difference in delivery within a four mile radius of OVLR members in Ottawa? At least up here, this ramdom arrival has been a problem for years. Sometimes its even early! > Sandy-- What is the "breakfast" on a 109? I missed the "Op Center" > broadcast. Breakfast supports the radiator grille. The metal bit between the wings... > Dixon-- What is "IRC", or is this another Series Three Taylor put on? Internet Relay Chat. Another waste of bandwidth on the backbone. Rgds, Dixon From William Dan Terry Wed Mar 1 08:57:51 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 08:57:51 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: RE: water leaks Unfortunately my response didn't seem to make it, so I'm trying again. TeriAnn writes: >What so it hasn't occured to anyone to renew the seal between the top and the >front of the windscreen? It's not that it hasn't occured to anyone, but time and cost and goal are factors when weighing the options. Replacing the top and bottom windscreen seals and the roof-roofside and roofside-mainbody seals costs US$140 for parts from RN, not to mention the time to take apart the top to do it. For my goal of a fulltime hardtop a US$4 tube of silicone caulk and a half-hour to apply it neatly is my preference to solve the leaking. >bulkhead, those were sealed from the factory. You can take a couple of hours >out, remove the mounting bolts raise them up, remove the old seal material & >reseal them. Sound like a lot of work for a permanent seal. I'd rather put a bead of 50-year silicone caulk on the seam. I have no predisposition to keep everything perfectly original. I also believe that there are things that can be improved without detracting from the vehicle's nature. The tar-like substance used to seal the front windscreen glass is nasty. It didn't do a great job of sealing, and it took a long time to scrape off the glass and frame. I used stick-on 1/4 inch thick rubber weather stripping to pad the glass by sticking it to the frame and metal retaining strips. It will never need to be removed to replace the glass. To seal the glass I used a thin bead of silicone caulk on the outside to seal the frame-glass gap. This works great. >By the way, you can also purchase gromets to protect wires going through >bulkheads. These don't seal the wire holes. Plus, I wasn't advocating caulk in place of gromets. I was just pointing out that if you seal a wire hole with caulk, you get the added benefit of protecting the wires like a gromet. >Sometimes it might even be easier to do a proper repair or maintenence as it >does to do a bodge job. Do you want to be known as "THE dreaded previous owner" >some time in the future? What constitutes "proper repair or maintenence" varies from person to person. In none of the cases I've encountered has the original sealing job been easier than my alternative, considering my fulltime hardtop goal. And I personally don't consider a neat caulk job to be a bodge job. And as I mentioned originally, it is not hard to remove the caulk; a razor to cut the seal and a plastic spatula to remove the "halves" from each side (plastic because metal will gouge the al). IMHO it's easier to remove than most of the original seals which come off in small pieces. It has been my experience with my '74 Lotus and '74 TVR that it is possible to use non-original methods to restore a vehicle and keep within the spirit of the original design. Both my sports cars have won multiple awards since I've worked on them. The spirit of LR to me is extremely capable, functional and simple. I don't think that the way I've sealed it goes against this. And none of my methods are irreversable if the next owner wanted to return to original. Personally, I like to hear about alternatives that others try. That's how we can improve our vehicles and suit them to our tastes. To me it's the quality of execution that makes the difference between good and bodge. Peace, Bill _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From "Tom Rowe" Wed Mar 1 08:44:02 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 08:44:02 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Rivnuts & alternators ? Walker asked about Rivnuts. I haven't found them either, but Dorman Nutserts seem to work well for me. The one's I've used come in a kit that doesn't require any special tools (just two wrenches--I mean spanners). They do have a little hex nut that you have to keep in your tool kit if you want to insert more. The major drawback to them is that they are made of aluminium ( it would probably be too hard to install steel ones without a special tool ) so I liberally coat them with NeverSeeze ( use this brand, its the best--also packaged by them for IH tactor dealers ). Regarding alternators, I put a Delco 108 amp in my lightweight. While it wasn't a "drop-in" it went fairly well. The pivot bolt hole is too large so I used a VW 1600cc bronze vlave guide as a bushing--it has a 5/16 ID. I also had to fab an upper bracket. I will warn you though, keep a spare belt on hand. The clearances are close enough that much belt stretch will require you to replace it to avoid the alternator contacting the engine mount--which I had to grind down a little. If you want specific part numbers let me know. You can get different pulleys for the alt. including double ones for driving the high output alt. I use it with my electric winch and it made a real difference. I plan to put on a double belt at some point because at full load it will take about 30hp to drive it--so the Delco man said--but since at full load I'm stationary ( who uses a winch while driving down the road? ) I have the hp to spare. While on the subject of electrics. Esp. with high output alt. don't neglect the cables--many people do. I replaced mine with #0 welding cable. No noticeable voltage drop which makes a big difference. I used the #0 cable from the battery to the starter and winch, and a #4 ( I think ) from the alt to the battery. If you do have a winch, put on a heavier gauge ground cable too. I don't know why winch manufacturers don't. It has to carry the same amount of current as the hot wire. OK, I know some goes through the frame, theoretically. And lastly, yeah really, I used welding cable beacuse it has more strands and so is more flexible and will have slightly less volt drop. // Four wheel drive will let you get stuck in places even more inaccessible. Tom Rowe University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Dairy Research 1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Home:608-243-8660 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Wed Mar 1 15:14:36 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 15:14:36 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: re: Jeeps are Crap in the snow. /I have subscribed to this list to try to find out just how reliable LRs My 90 says:- /As for my "needs", they are: \ - reasonable power for highway driving (this may be a problem, \ no?). The modern engines (2.5 turbo deisel, or V8) are fine. The 2.25 patrol or 2.5 n/a are weedy. \ - bullet-proof drivetrain. These words cannot be spoken in the same breath as Landrover :( \ - easy to work on (LRs are probably the easiest from what I've \ read). The Series vehicles are. The later coilies with permenent 4wd (90,110) arent so much. \ - adequate ground clearance for rock crawling, preferably 9-10" \ below the diffs. Landrovers typically are 1-2 inches worse for diff clearance than the opposition. It is their weak point. Big diffs -> low clearance From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 01 95 Mar EST 1910 Date: 01 Mar 95 10:16:07 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RR purchases > To those requesting RR purchase tips- > Stephan Jacob (I think), fellow lrolister, recently submitted a > report that appeared in ROAV's (or maybe OVLR's) newsletter a > few months back. It detailed the "what to look for and what > to look out fors" of RR purchasing. Perhaps he could send > that on to the list (I don't recall ever seeing it except in It appeared in the "Gearbox" (that's ROAV), and I'm very sorry to say that due to my neurotic fear of "Hard Disk full" messages I've meanwhile deleted it. Sandy, do you think you could re-post it to the interested RR-aspirants? It mainly centered on frequently experienced faults in the drivetrain parts of used RRs, and how to look for them. I think it also mentioned that 'wet' power steering boxes are no big tragic thing, as long as it doesn't dribble all over the place, and that you can live with it. BTW a leaking or wet power steering _pump_ as opposed to the box/relay *does* spell trouble and $$$ ! While I'm at it, another caveat: On RRs that have been standing a while it is not uncommon to percieve a more or less acute intermittant 'squeal' from the idling engine. The simplest cause could be loose/worn pulley belts (the RR engine can have up to 4 of those). If this can be ruled out, the other 4 possible causes can be, in the order of probability, the 'belt tensioner wheel' (a little adjustable passive pulley wheel on the left lower front of the engine), the alternator bearings, the power steering pump, or the water pump. A bad water pump usually gives off a more continuous wailing sort of squeal. Whatever the case, it is *bad* and will cost $$$ to remedy. Alternator as well as servo pump and also this silly little tensioner wheel are all very expensive to overhaul or replace (the tensioner is not serviceable at all and must be replaced outright - the same is recommended for the servo pump, although it _can_ be overhauled). And the fault *should* be corrected, because there is always the realistic danger of any of the afflicted bearings causing the squeal to seize at any time which will lead to an immediate rupture of the fan and pulley belts, causing equally immediate loss of cooling, loss of battery charge, and loss of power steering action. The water pump usually doesn't seize, but the inner sealing can break down and the pump will very suddenly leak and squirt coolant all over the place. So, _listen_! As for comparing 3.5 vs. 3.9 l V8, I subjectively don't find the 3.9 to be much more powerful than the 3.5 except if you're towing uphill where you can go for quite a while in 4th before having to shift down (4-cyl. owners, plug your ears... er, eyes). I do find the 3.9 to be more, how do you say, ... cultivated? More smooth, quiet, delivering its torque more evenly. The 3.5 seems to have a torque 'lag' between 1,000 and 2,200 rpm and a pronounced surge of torque between 3,000 and 4,500 rpm. (We're talking EFI here). Anyway, that's my personal impression from the vehicles I've tried out. Can't say anything for the consumption, haven't measured it on the 3.9 . On used RRs with high mileage, rebushing the suspension rods/arms will greatly improve handling and should be considered. Fairly easy to go and not so expensive (except if you treat yourself to a set of Australian 'Ironman' bushes - but that's strictly for the afficionados). 'nuff RR rant... Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 01 95 Mar EST 1910 Date: 01 Mar 95 10:16:39 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Jeeps in the snow I'd say performance in snow is 60% drivers' skill and 35% tires; attribute the remaining 5% to the actual vehicle properties. Big fat w-i-d-e macho tires are pure crap in snow no matter on which vehicle, and I've seen a VW microbus with chains outperform a Hummer on a snow-covered incline with ease, not because a VW bus is a superior offroad vehicle, but because the Humvee - macho was a complete idiot, thinking that raw engine power is the solution to all traction problems... Stefan From llevitt@idcresearch.com Wed Mar 01 10:51:16 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 95 10:51:16 EST From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Subject: Used Range Rover prices and differential question Given the postings about used Rover prices on the west coast, I think I'm going to buy up all the local stock and ship them west. '87s and '88s in New England are going for anywhere between $10K and $18K or so, depending on condition, equipment, size of oil puddle underneath and the desperation of the owner. But it sure does seem that a reasonable early (for the US) truck can be found in the $10K range. Which is good, cos it means I can afford one. Thanks to all who have suggested places to look for such a critter... WRT the the manual versus viscuous differential issue. It sounds to me like the '89 and later viscuous diff would work better in snow. How squirrelly will an '87 or '88 be with open diffs? I briefly drove a Trooper recently and found that driving the thing on dry pavement with locked diffs was indeed a nono. Since this will be my wife's everyday car for a while, I'm not sure I can picture her locking and unlocking the diffs when transitioning between snowy side roads and wet or dry main roads... Am I AFU or what? (WRT the diffs, of course) Thanks in advance, Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Wed Mar 01 11:05:35 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 11:05:35 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Diffs, open or otherwise Mike Fredette wrote: >ALL Land Rover products have OPEN diffs front and rear. The exception >being someone who has put a locking diff such as an ARB... Land Rover experimented with a limited-slip differential in late '66 or early '67. They are occassionally found on Rovers of that era, but there were problems with the unit (i.e., they broke) and the unit was withdrawn. Mike...thanks for the tip on the Delco alternator...I'll check it out. I just wish that little Mitsu alternator would fit! Smaller than the Lucas, but TWICE the output! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Wed Mar 1 11:28:54 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 11:28:54 EST From: tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Subject: Shocks & springs for 89 Range Rover Hello everyone. I have a probing question about the springs and shocks on a 89 Range Rover (66K miles). Under hard braking (in straight line) the car has recently developed a tendency to pull to the right. Wheel alignment is not the problem for it tracks straight on the expressway. And the wheels where freshly balanced. Promptly I have inspected all rotors, calipers, and pads (fronts were replaced). I also bled the brake system and replenished it with fresh dot4 brake fluid. The pedal felt stiffer with better modulation under hard braking. I followed the usual brake pad bedding process followed by intense braking till fade (front pads were smoking). Interestingly enough, the problem still persists. I suspect its a combination of worn shocks (dampeners) and springs. While parked on a lever ground I proceeded to measure ride hight at every corner. The front right was an inch lower. So its probably a bad spring. Although a bad shock could cause this on a passenger car, however according to people in NorthEast of US its not the case with RR. A week later I decided to remeasure the ride hight once again to see if the situation has deteriorated. To my surprise it was the rear left that was lower. Maybe the car needed to settle after being driven. So at this point I'm rather dubious about my conclusions. I wold like to know what springs (stock variable rate or aftermarked linear) to go with or what shocks (Bilsteins ??) to go with if they need to be changed. Also, should I change the 5th shock by the front sway-bar? Many thanks in advance!!!! Tony B. 89 Range Rover 91 M3 track prepared. Keep the sunny side up. From C Taylor Sutherland III Wed Mar 1 11:32:07 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 11:32:07 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: The Gimme's Yeah, I got the Gimme's! gimme gimme gimme! I desperately want a lr! I have heard so many good things about them and bad things as well. loud - who cares? smells - who cares? slow to accel - who cares as long as it gets me where I want to go before nightfall. :) cramped - I might care, I hope not. I sat in a IIa. It was a bit cramped but it had crappy seats. But it wasn't as cramped as a certain land cruiser I once drove. The pedals are put in the correct place as to avoid too much strain. I hope to go test drive one (III 88") next week sometime. I'm expecting a loud roudy truck that I can fix by looking at it lovingly. I hope to find that. If not, I may buy it anyway! :) Nothing much could be worse than this crap Blazer I have...no offense to Poodle wherever he is, great guy, but he sold me a lemon. :( So I wanna wanna wanna! gimme gimme gimme! Is that enthusiastic enough for you? True the Blazer has more leg room and a higher (not that much higher) top speed, but the 4wd sucks, the suspension is about to fall off, and the tranny never did let me shift right, double clutching or no, plus, if I took the top off the Blazer, the doors wouldn't open anymore. :) So here's to sweat, blood, and mud! and to rovers! May I not bite off more than I can chew. At the very worst, I can keep it for a little while in perfect condition and sell it as a down payment on a D-90 3.9 V8...pipe dream... Taylor From labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Wed Mar 1 09:36:42 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 09:36:42 PST From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Subject: Re: Jeeps in the snow > I'd say performance in snow is 60% drivers' skill and 35% tires; attribute > the remaining 5% to the actual vehicle properties. Big fat w-i-d-e macho I don't know about this. I'd say I am a very good driver but I have driven in a snow storm that I could not have done without my 84 Subaru Wagon that had crappy tires. In this snow storm there were 4x4's all over the side of the road. I was the ONLY vehicle I saw going the speed limit from Manhattan to Sullivan County (2hr). I would continually check to see if I was driving a safe speed by shaking my wheels back and forth when there were no other vehicles around. I think SUVs and Jeeps and Land Rovers are good for OFFROADING and Subarus are good for driving on the road in slick conditions. A good driver is key ( I wont give percentages here) but a good driver must pick the right vehicle for the right job and that is part of being a good driver. All thought when I was an apprentice mason my boss always told me, "It aint the tool kid, It's the tool pusher." I think your right that a bad driver will foul up with any vehicle. Your also correct that tires have alot to with it Just some of my stupid oppinions and experiences. Jason LaBranch | To find your way, look within! Parallel Products Group | -- AAA Road Atlas Sybase Engineering (510) 922-4690 | From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Mar 01 10:07:14 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 10:07:14 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Breakover Angles Michael Carradine wrote: > Craig Murray wrote: > >and remember > >that you have to get the thing onto about 45 degrees before it will roll > 45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope! The Hummer spec's > claim a 40 % (percent) side slope capability, or about 23.6 degrees. I have seen photos of a Series Rover with driver inside stable at 45 degrees side angle. Now for off road use, you are bouncing around and so, since every bounce gives the high side an upward vector the angle for which you rollover will decrease with speed. Also, the more you load your Rover (and the higher up you load is) the more the load will cause your Rover's side angle to be greater than the slope's of the hill you are on (and hence decrease the angle that you rollover). For off road use, the number that I have heard for Series Land Rovers is that they are safe (unloaded) to about 30 degrees. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Wed Mar 01 13:43:55 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 13:43:55 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: D-90 US Prices Rob asked: >I have been looking for a similar listing for the '95 Defender 90. Do you >have this information, or can you point me in the direction of the >"Automobile Invoice Services - New car cost guide, issue 3 (1995)"? Is this >online, or would is it available for purchase ? The reference is a large soft cover book I looked through while visiting my credit union. I don't know how to go about purchasing a copy. I happened to be going by there during lunch and jotted down the following (using issue 4): Invoice Retail US D-90 $25790 $28650 Soft Top, Sliding $1680 $1975 glass door tops, Rear Safari Cage Air Conditioning $1530 $1800 Black Paint $250 $300 Fiberglass Top $1120 $1400 Alloy wheels $750 $900 Destination $625 $625 Somehow I thought that the hard top was more expensive. Yes, I did double check the figures listed. Have fun. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From Mr Ian Stuart Wed Mar 1 14:39:49 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 14:39:49 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: To Robin - address bounced > I have yet to see the article myself. It was submitted a long time ago > now. i am sure in the best emap tradition it will have been well hacked > apart. I do not know the key fob guy, he is in the US somewhere. I dont > have his name to hand. Can you please give it to me perhaps? I'll find out tonight & send it to you for tomorrow.. > What stuff do you have at the SLROC? any stamps? Stickers, badges, bags, ubrellers (sp?), t-shirts, sweatshirts, "home"-videos of our playing,....... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From "ANTHONY F. QUATTROMANI INTERNET:AQUATTROMANI@SYSCON.HII.COM" Wed Mar 01 13:26:49 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 13:26:49 EST From: "ANTHONY F. QUATTROMANI INTERNET:AQUATTROMANI@SYSCON.HII.COM" Subject: subscribe subscribe From Tom Stevenson Wed Mar 1 17:43:27 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 17:43:27 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Questions... I keep six honest serving men (They taught me all I knew); Their names are What and Why and When And How and Where and Who. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Mar 1 11:07:18 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 11:07:18 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for 89 Range Rover IMO, thje most likely cause of the problem is the front bushings on the rear radius arms -- they need replacing. They wear rapidly and cause just the symptoms you relate. Replacement is very easy. Re the spring heights etc -- all the springs are different lengths in LR's attempt to compensate for engine slightly off to one side and other asynnetries. In my experience they have over-compensated, and when I recently got sick of my RR's permanent list to starboard I replaced both rear springs with the stock LEFT spring, which is slightly longer than the right. This levelled the vehicle better, especially when under load or towing. The front springs have about an inch of difference in lengths, but I haven't got around to replacing them yet. Re shocks, my personal opinion is to stick to the genuine article which were much more carefully selected for ride, travel etc than you or I copuld hope to do by trying different aftermarket ones. Just an opinion... Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Mar 1 11:10:37 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 11:10:37 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Jeeps in the snow Aside from the 4wd systems etc, probably the old fashioned narrow tires of the RR RR are better in snow (except deep hard packed) than the modern fat tires of the Grand Cherokee. If you include the lighter weight of the Cherokee in your sums, the RR probably has at least 50% more ground contact pressure per square inch than the jeep -- bad for sand but good for snow! Cheers John From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Mar 01 12:28:43 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 95 12:28:43 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? Hello all, How about helping those of us "on the edge of buying" a series ???, RR, or Defender by a brief spell (day or two) of posting all known LR's for sale? I too have been "looking" to see what's out there, but have seen VERY LITTLE available in Arizona. (Or anywhere else for that matter.) I've only heard of a 88 in California for $8500 and a doormobile for something like $12000. Oh! and a RR for $19000. So how'bout it? What's out there??? Units for sale and prices... #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From "Mugele, Gerry" Wed Mar 01 11:42:00 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 95 11:42:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Alternators Someone asked about replacement alternators. My SIII finally ate its original dynamo last month after 22 plus years of faithful service. Prevented me from going on the great Granville/Morgan Mendocino Forest/Trial by Mud expedition :-( Anyway I replaced it with a Bosch unit. Dropped right in, no conversion at all and cost about $120 (including belt) after taxes etc. Not sure of the specs but I know it exceeds the stock Lucas that it replaced. Had to order it and it took a couple days to get. If you want I'll look up the details, lemme know. Only one possible negative point...it seems to whine a little, like a turbo, especially right after start-up on cold mornings. Thought it might be the bearings but all seems fine...no brass/copper filings oozing anywhere and the battery always seems to be at 14v. If I have problems I'll be sure to let everyone know. Gerry 72 88 ** "Being shot out of a cannon will always be better than being squeezed out of a tube. That is why God made fast motorcycles. --Hunter S. Thompson From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Wed Mar 1 11:53:19 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 11:53:19 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: Bad News, Good News Just received word that Land Rover has increased the price of the Discovery by about $600! Which means that there is no longer a new Discovery available for *under* thirty grand. The good news is that all those who are on waiting lists with orders in will NOT be subject to the price increase - LRNA will absorb the six bucks for LRUK. Of course, those who were agonizing over a purchase decision the past few weeks will unfortunately be exposed to the new MSRP. Also, 1996 Discos will have power seat option, self-dimming mirror, better audio, etc., etc. For 1997 - look for an *LWB* version of Disco - six inches longer body - to accomodate a true third rear seat - possibly stowing under the floor along with some body updates. Its obvious that Disco is evolving just like the Range Rover has. Sounds to me like upmarket Discos will ultimately cancel out the Range Rover Classic - or at the least share price points. cheerz Jim *sales geek* Roverheadus onandon gibberishum From Morgan Hannaford Wed Mar 1 11:56:48 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 11:56:48 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: Ne DISCO commercial-addendum > I just saw a new LR commercial for the Disco. It features > various wild animals (lions, apes, etc) dragging their young [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > comment to the effect ' The Land Rover Discovery is a far superior > method of transporting your young'. Very humorous, I thought!! If you listen really closely, the british deadpan voice said.... "......far superior to carrying your young, in your mouth". I just about busted a gut! Morgan From Kelly Minnick Wed Mar 1 12:29:18 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 12:29:18 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Fed Ex RE: FED EX FAX'ed these people back their silly form. They promised the order would be at my door today. Today they called and said it was being held up because of the cloth head linner and cloth rear bench seat cushions. Seems they had to know where the cloth came from or something. This is really strange! Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Mar 1 12:46:45 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 12:46:45 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Breakover Angles William Dan Terry wrote: >Unfortunately my response didn't seem to make it, so I'm trying >again. Maybe I'm not the only one who's messages don't seem to be getting through. Craig Murray wrote: >The axle straps might be there to prevent body roll on a side slope, but >most people will stop before they get anywhere near rolling, and remember [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >can think of, except the hummer, but I don't know about that, as I don't >think you can get them out here. 45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope! The Hummer spec's claim a 40 % (percent) side slope capability, or about 23.6 degrees. Jeep Cherokees have a 'breakover' angle of 23.1 degrees, while the Mercedes Benz Unimog* has a 42 % sideslope, or about 24.8 degrees. The 1993 Range Rover County brochure claims a breakover angle of 29 degrees, or 48.5 % percent, while the 1993 Range Rover County LWB claims 27 degrees in standard height and 30 degrees (a 1:2 slope) in high profile. Although the Rover Group must have that backwards since the high profile raises the car 1.6 inches and therefore also the center of gravity. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com *see Unimogs at ftp://ftp.crl.com/ftp/users/ro/cs/unimog.html From Jon Humphrey Wed Mar 1 16:00:26 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 16:00:26 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Fed Ex Kelly muses; >RE: FED EX >FAX'ed these people back their silly form. They promised the order would be [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >the cloth head linner and cloth rear bench seat cushions. Seems they had to >know where the cloth came from or something. This is really strange! Kelly, maybe they have to run it past "Rovers Nose", the drug sniffing pooch. Can't be too careful these days 'ya know. Later Jon From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Wed Mar 1 13:12:05 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 13:12:05 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Rivnuts & alternators > Regarding alternators, I put a Delco 108 amp in my lightweight. While > it wasn't a "drop-in" it went fairly well. The pivot bolt hole is too [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > contacting the engine mount--which I had to grind down a little. > Tom Rowe This closly follows my experience putting a Delco on my 2.25L 88. I found that the belt lines up with a 1" spacer with a 5/16" hole, on the stock lower generator mount. A stack of washers will work, but I made one from 1" dia. bar stock. I moved the stock tension adjusting bracket one stud toward the left wing. Find the right belt and that's it for mechanical. The parts store will sell you a plug that connects to the "sense" terminal and the "light" terminal of the Delco. Put this on the "field" wire and the "light" wire. My Rover has a Lucas regulator that has most of it cut off (the top half that has all the coils and points and other junk that goes bad.) It has all the terminals shorted together with a brass buss bar. As I remember the last one on the right, that went to the idiot (charge) light is separate. This keeps the wiring very nearly stock. I will FAX a wiring diagram, if you want it. R,bg From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Mar 1 13:25:27 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 13:25:27 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Breakover Angles Morgan Hannaford wrote: >I thought breakover angle is the triangle between the front wheels >rear wheels and frame, longitudinally. It estimates how hight of [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >read to never go over 23 degrees when moving. >I'm only replying to you because I may be totally wrong........ Morgan, I believe you are correct. The breakover angle is the inverse of the approach/departure angle, that is, from a level position to a downslope ramp. When the vehicle crosses over the edge, the edge will encroach into the space between the front and rear wheels towards the chassis. As I read the 1993 Range Rover County LWB spec's again the Angle of Approach with spoiler in standard height: 30 degrees, the Angle of Departure in standard height: 30 degrees, Breakover Angle in standard height 27 degrees. Sideslope is not mentioned, as you say, probably for liability reasons. Overturning a vehicle is more complicated than a mere sideslope angle anyway. As mentioned, the load and placement of the load are factors, any deviation from 90 degrees to the slope will load the front or back suspensions differently, then the stiffness or 'give' of the suspension factored with its age and condition all contribute to a rollover. It was my impression that a reason that earlier Jeeps (as shown on 60 Minutes) rolled so easy was that when at 30 mph on a flat roadway a driver attempted a turn or swerve, the opposing front corner suspension was so weak that it tucked the vehicle down, this, with a short wheelbase and a high center of gravity, percipitated the rollover. Anyway, thanks again for the correction. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From Dixon Kenner Wed Mar 1 16:33:01 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 16:33:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Breakover Angles On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > 45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope! The Hummer spec's > claim a 40 % (percent) side slope capability, or about 23.6 degrees. I will see if I can get the page number from an old LR publication that has a photo of a Series One lifted by a hydraulic lift on one side, a large chalk board in the background that says 40 degrees, the text somewhere saying that if stationary, it can go to 45 degrees (one foot horizontal, one foot vertical) before tipping over. Rgds, From "Tom Rowe" Wed Mar 1 15:38:00 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 15:38:00 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Delco Alternators I got a message from William Grouell who has done a similar instalation on his '88'. It reminded me that with the Delco's you will need a diode wired off a ign. switched circut to energize the alternator so it will charge. Also, if you have a Prince of Darkness alternator, the bracket needs to be replaced with a IIA generator bracket. I removed the alternator bracket stud and used a 5/16 rod (threaded both ends) about 7-8" long that passes through the hole the old stud was in. Any wiring changes will vary depending on what your vehicle started out with and what's been changed over the years. I've seen few original wiring systems. Tom Rowe University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Dairy Research 1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Home:608-243-8660 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu From Dixon Kenner Wed Mar 1 16:39:46 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 16:39:46 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? On Wed, 1 Mar 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote: > So how'bout it? What's out there??? Units for sale and prices... Restoration projects, IE vehicles that are complete, original, and generally could use a new frame, springs? Lots of them... What particular year or type do you want? Prices will vary from the mid hundreds to upwards of $2,000 for something nice, but needs a frame (Cdn dollars/northern peso here). The ones where someone else has already done all the work will cost more, though Cdn. prices have not hit the USA level, they are rising. From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Wed Mar 1 13:57:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 13:57:41 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Breakover Angles > On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > > 45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope! The Hummer spec's [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > > 45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope! The Hummer spec's > > claim a 40 % (percent) side slope capability, or about 23.6 degrees. In L/R Workhorse of the World there is a picture of a Series ? Rover ambulance on the factory tilt-o-meter. The needle is pointng at ~50! R,bg From Dixon Kenner Wed Mar 1 17:00:12 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 17:00:12 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Breakover Angles On Wed, 1 Mar 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > In L/R Workhorse of the World there is a picture of a Series ? Rover > ambulance on the factory tilt-o-meter. The needle is pointng at ~50! Forgot about that one... Methinks some are getting the percentage and the degrees mixed up here, or confused. Of course, by the time you are leaning about 20 degrees it begins to get un-nerving, let alone 40-45 degrees. (no, haven't tried & not sure I want to yet) From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Mar 1 11:40:12 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 11:40:12 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: RR braking/steering /springs/shock problems Sorry I lost the address of the person who posted a message about this -- just wanted to make sure you checked out all the steering ball joints first before replacing the trailing arm bushings that are likely the problem. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From ostravler@bitbytes.clark.net (Evan Prytherch) Wed Mar 01 07:40:00 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 07:40:00 -0500 From: ostravler@bitbytes.clark.net (Evan Prytherch) Subject: 89 Range Rover...should I buy it? Greetings, I found an 89 Range Rover (ivory) with 82,000 miles at a local dealer. It's loaded with leather seats, sun roof, and the brush package. The vehicle is VERY clean. The previous owner just installed 4 new brake rotors. This Rover is available for $15,000...is this a good deal? Is there any nasty spots I should look for? Thanks in advance. Evan... From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Mar 01 15:30:22 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 95 15:30:22 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? Dixon, I'd like to find a decent 109 4-door (station wagon? With seating for 9-11 or what ever they came with.) Body doesn't matter much to me, but would like a good runner. I would need to be able to "import" it to US, so from what I hear, that'd be a pre 1968? Unless later ones in Canada are up to US spec's. I guess to save $$ it'd be okay to find one needing a frame. What's a frame cost? Can I get a coil spring frame to fit? And, if I found one with a bad/missing engine (to save $$) I have a Buick V6 turbo sitting around, would that "fit"? (With adaptors, of course.) Having seen NONE of these in the Phoenix Arizona paper, I'd be willing to settle for almost anything! LR engine/trans or even a transplanted engine/trans would be okay. Kind of like the idea of having a little more power than the 4 cyl. but not sure how that would affect the durability of the drive train. Any advice in that area? I'd LOVE a turbo diesel. Is that available? Next preference would be for a diesel, but I've never owned one before. Are there many coil spring conversions? Ever heard of one or seen one in action? I'd think that the ride would be better, and the wheel travel more, am I right??? Sheesh! Now I'm sounding like a total newby! Well, I guess I am. sorry, I hope your patience holds up! (Do they come in blue? LH cranks? smokebender exhaust? muffler bearings? how do I rotate the taillight oil? Do you crank the opposite direction if it's south of the equator? etc... etc...) Thanks, #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead *** Reply to note of 03/01/95 14:40 ========================================================================= From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Mar 1 15:04:42 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 15:04:42 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Scouting Outing rescheduled Fellow netters, I appologize for not making the announcement sooner. I had earlier announced that there would be a Mendocino Forest Scouting Outing 2, next weekend. Too many of us who wanted to go were simply not going to be ready in time so we have decided to reschedule for the weekend of 25-26 March 1995. Again, for any of you who missed the first announcement, we plan to camp overnight in the Letts Lake area. Our purpose (aside from getting our Land-Rovers scratched and muddy) is to scout routes, trails, and campsites for the Mendocino Forest Rallye II, scheduled for the weekend of the 29th of April 1995. After this scouting trip, we will lay our detailed plans for the April event and post more information on the net. Any LROs who wish to go with us on this scout-out should e-mail or call: Granville Pool or Phone: (707)485-7220=home or (707)463-4265=work or Morgan Hannaford Phone: (510)883-0931 See you in the woods! Granville From "John R. Benham" Wed Mar 1 15:19:53 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 15:19:53 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: MORE Nat. Geo. Land Rovers! Dear LRO's, Here are some more National Geographic Magazine Rover sitings: 1. December, 1991, p. 149: Red Range Rover in a Goodyear Wrangler ad. 2. June, 1990, p. 110: Green 109 pickup IIA? in Rosseau, Dominica 3. April, 1988, p. 489: White D110 UN escorting Ugandans back to Uganda from Sedan. 4. February, 1972, p. 154,155: Marine Blue 88 Safari and 109 4-dr. Safari w/roof-rack ferrying tourists to watch Cheetahs feeding on a Gazelle in Kenya's Nairobi National Park. 5. But the best, so-far, is the March, 1961 issue, p. 368-389: `We Drove Panama's Darien Gap! And guess which vehicle was their expedition's vehicle of choice??? You got it! A Marine Blue 88 Safari Land Rover! It survived river crossings, several roll overs, and a 70-foot fall! This article has numerous photos of their Land Rover in action! Plently of winching, stream crossings, and bailing out stuck jeeps! Enjoy, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 88 IIA `Bwana Mobile' From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Mar 1 18:48:13 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 18:48:13 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > I've only heard of a 88 in California for $8500 and a doormobile for > something like $12000. Oh! and a RR for $19000. > So how'bout it? What's out there??? Units for sale and prices... Nigel: 1960 Series II 88, blindsider hardtop, tailgate, Fairey OD, Warn Hubs. Loaded with character dents, otherwise in good running condition. Needs paint (aw, no it doesn't). Asking $1,000,000.00 US but will settle for $950,000.00 Need money to buy a home in the metro NY area. rd/nigel From jpg4447@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (JACK GEISE) Wed Mar 1 19:57:52 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 19:57:52 -0500 From: jpg4447@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (JACK GEISE) Subject: LR's for sale FOR SALE: 1970, Series IIA, 109, petrol with safari roof, overdrive, new fuel tank, new brakes/lines/cylinders, etc. Very good shape, though could stand a tune-up. Asking $4500 US. 1972, Series III, 88, petrol station wagon. Good shape. Asking $1500 US. Both vehicles fully licensed and inspected, 16" wheels, etc. Available in Potsdam, NY USA. Send inquiries via e-mail (jpg4447@craft.camp.clarkson.edu) or to J. Geise, 54 Elm St. Potsdam, NY 13676, USA. From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 01 95 Mar EST 1919 Date: 01 Mar 95 19:23:59 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Nutserts Nutserts can easily be fitted without the use of special tools, fit the same way as rivnuts. The rivnuts that came with my capstan winch 20 years ago did not have hex. merely a diagram on how to fit Take a screw ( def a bolt that has a thread that extends to the head) and fit a standard nut to it. screw the screw into the nutsert/rivnut with a plain washer between the nut and the sert so that the thread protrudes thro the sert. Fit the assembly into the hole. With a spanner (aka usa wrench) hold the bolt head and with another spanner ( wrench) tighten the nut onto the washer and sert. the purposeof the washer is to take the torque from tightening the nut without turning the rivnut as well This has the efffect of compressing the plain portion of the rivnut/sert into the hole and locking it in place. Doug ser 1 landies had a mechanical operated clutch release system, ser 2 and 3 both use a hydraulic slave cylinder, the difference between 2 and 3 is the linkage and mechanism from the cylinder to the clutch pressure plate. the ser 2 is less problematical since the bearing is more substantial and better lubricated. an advantage of the ser 3 is the mechanism is inside the gearbox bell housing and easier to seal and keep clean. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From Sanna@aol.com Wed Mar 1 20:37:20 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 20:37:20 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: 89 Range Rover...should I buy it? >I found an 89 Range Rover (ivory) with 82,000 miles Sounds like Annabelle, my '89 ivory RR with78,000 miles. I bought mine 1 1/2 years ago with 56,000 miles for $20,500. Yours sounds like a good truck at a fair price. Mine has been a great truck. I bought mine from Atlantic-British so they warranteed the parts for the first few months I drove it. I was able to live with the car and send them a list of what was wrong. They sent me the parts and I provided the labor to install. Here is what I did to the vehicle: I replaced the exhaust system (rusted) with stainless steel, the power steering pump was leaking & was replaced (common problem, I understand), steering bushings (not needed, the RR had a wandering problem that later turned out to be the tires), and a few other odds & ends. Since that time I have replaced the alternator/regulator, tires (big improvement), brake pads (RR's eat em up), and the gas tank ('89's have a corrosion point between the tank & skid plate. Rough off-roading opened up a leak). >From my experience and from others I think that the '89 RR is one of the better years. Rover just improved the engine and transmission, and had yet to add some of their more problematic features like ABS, alarms & such. The '89 does not have the anti-sway bars that were later added in '91, so it does take some getting used to the whale-ish handling. Off-road it is impecable, however. Good luck! From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Wed Mar 1 21:21:02 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 95 21:21:02 EST From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Nutserts >Nutserts can easily be fitted without the use of special tools, fit the >same way [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] >This has the efffect of compressing the plain portion of the rivnut/sert into >the hole and locking it in place. FWIW: A few months back I tried quite hard to do the above rinvut installation sans tools with great frustration. I eventually just bought the tool. -jory From Easton Trevor Wed Mar 01 08:22:00 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 95 08:22:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Rover 3litre parts I've lost the name, but someone was enquiring about spares for the three litre saloon. I recently received a delightfully hand written, atrociously photocopied list from "ROVERLAND" in the UK. They appear to have a large variety of parts and accessories and to be true enthusiasts. Their number is 0113 245 9569 Fax 0113 244 2570. From LuckyJoe@aol.com Wed Mar 1 21:48:29 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 21:48:29 -0500 From: LuckyJoe@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO Digest As a potential Discovery owner, I've been reading the digest with much interest. I am particularly drawn to the Series comments and the longevity of these vehicles. I would like to believe that a Series Land Rover is in my future, but for now the DIsco is a more appropriate choice. One thing that has kept me guessing is the longevity of the newer Land Rovers. Will a DIsco or Defender still be an the road in 25 years? Since the Series Rovers are seemingly fond of leaking fluids, does that mean the 'my' Disco eventually will too? I'm still convinced that I'm making the right choice, I'm just interested in your collective opinions. I would appreciate any insights. BTY, On 25 Feb 1995 Walter C. Swain wrote: >>The local Public Radio station.......while on the subject of getting a Land Rover serviced or repaired, one of them said it didn't matter, they fix them on the Internet! Are these guys wired?<< They are! It's actualy the NPTN - NATIONAL PUBLIC TELECOMPUTING NETWORK. They are set-up throughout the USA and I believe there is an affiliation with National Public Radio. Doubtless there's a Land Rover there as well!! Tom Proctor Lucky Joe@aol.com From Andrew Steele Wed Mar 01 22:53:27 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 1995 22:53:27 -0500 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Re: UK LR Training Jeromy, Congradulations on the choice of a canal boat. I've been on three canal boat trips now. Going to try same in the South of France this fall. Anyway, I spent two days with Land Rover. Their factory training is called the Land Rover Experience and consists of three levels. Level 1 - 1 day - cost 110 sterling + VAT - @ factory in Solihul Land Rover Familiarisation Course Choice of vehicles to drive (I tried 110 diesel, discover diesel, RR diesel and RR lwb 4.0) * "Contents include instruction and practical experience in: the capabilities of the vehicle, controls, surveying the ground, ground clearance, steering, gear selection, gradients (good stuff on the huge dirt mound that was once their on site dump), side slopes (reach out & touch dirt it seemed like), wading/fording (no rain for weeks when I was there, but still water 3+ feet deep in which to play -- tracks that they call the "jungle"), load distrubition(don't remember covering) recovery, conservation. This was a really great day, lunch in the factory lunch room. Amazing how much/varied of inclines and wet tracks they have on the factory grounds. Level II- 1 day - cost 220 sterling +Vat - @ Eastham Castle/Estate This was a day spent trail riding, applying what we learned the previous day in Level I. 1 instructor and 2 students per vehicle. Good stuff!!!!!!. Level III - 1 day - cost 440 (I didn't take this one) Land Rover Instructor Courses, "These courses are designed for companies with Land Rover leets who wish to conduct their own "at work" courses." Also tought at Eastham. We timed on canal boat trip to be on the Grand Union Canal on the date of my first class. I got off the boat at a bridge in Solihul (canal goes along side the LR factory) and walked to the guards gate. I had gone to the wrong side of the plant (huge area), but the LR Experience staff drove over and picked me up. At the end of the day, they gave me a ride into Birmingham where I rejoined the boat at Gas Street Basin. Later that night I met up with some firefighter who had come into town for a rugby tournment ....but that's another long story. Suffice it to say we were refused entry into one of the classes nightclubs late that night. Gee, I was even wearing a tie. Anyway, the next morning LR Experience staff mem From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Mar 02 05:25:49 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 05:25:49 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Guilt trip. Why pick on Taylor, indeed! I suppose we all would take a differant view if he would just go find a Rover and bring it home and *then* start asking questions. At this point, he has asked more questions and has more information than anyone I've ever heard of. Period. I'm probably like most others - here in the States. Previous to buying mine, the closest I had ever been to one was 17 years earlier, at the New York car show in New York City. (A brand new SerIII) Although I had owned Triumphs for 15 years before buying my SerIII, I didn't have a clue as to what might go wrong and what to look for in a Rover. I saw it and it was love at first sight. Now I've got three more and assorted piles of parts stashed here and there.. Taylor keeps comparing things to his Toyota and Blazer.. from the sound of it, he doesn't much care for either and probably beat the crap out of both. Chances are he'll beat the crap out of a Rover, too. And then maybe he'll go off looking for something better and that will end it. On the other hand, maybe, just maybe he will realize just what it is about Land Rovers that make us all love them in our own special way.. maybe he'll get a little 90wt in his blood... Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Mar 02 05:26:30 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 05:26:30 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Fed Ex Kelly's shipment.... > FAX'ed these people back their silly form. They promised the order would > be [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > to > know where the cloth came from or something. This is really strange! Not so strange, really.. It's a U.S.Customs regulation that deals with agricultural concerns. Customs gets worried about the nasty bugs that other countries have and the U.S. doesn't have. When I was in the USAF and stationed overseas I had (as one of my "additional" duties) to work as a Customs inspector and check out what people were shipping back to the U.S. There were quite a few agricultural-type items that we were forbidden to transport back. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Mar 02 05:26:44 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 05:26:44 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Breakover Angles Dixon replies to Michael Carradine... > I will see if I can get the page number from an old LR publication > that has a photo of a Series One lifted by a hydraulic lift > on one side, a large chalk board in the background that says > 40 degrees, the text somewhere saying that if stationary, it can > go to 45 degrees (one foot horizontal, one foot vertical) before A couple of others... "The Land Rover 1948-1988" by James Taylor. Pg 15 shows a "pilot-built" land Rover on a lift at 45 degrees, with a sign on the windscreen that states "Safe operating angle - 30 degrees" "Land Rover The Unbeatable 4x4" Third edition by K & J Slavin and GN Mackie has on pg 170 a Range-Rover ambulance conversion on a special tilting floor rig. The floor is at 40 degrees while a second guage on the body of the Range Rover ambulance shows 50 degrees. The caption for the picture reads "All body conversions undergo a tilt test." Cheers Mike From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Mar 2 13:14:36 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:14:36 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Breakover Angles / 45 degrees is MUCH too far, that's a 100% sideslope! The Hummer spec's That's the figure I've seen. Think it was 44 DEGREES..... / claim a 40 % (percent) side slope capability, or about 23.6 degrees. Hell! A transit van can do better than that! Someone is mixing up % and degrees. / The 1993 Range Rover County brochure claims a breakover angle of 29 / degrees, or 48.5 % percent, while the 1993 Range Rover County LWB claims And the breakover angle is a different beastie entirely - it is the angle of the step the vehicle can drive over at right angles before scratching its tummy! No relation to the sideslope angle at all except that in general, the two are weakly inversely related (tall vehicles roll belly up easier) From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Mar 2 13:20:16 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:20:16 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Snow driving /WRT the the manual versus viscuous differential issue. It sounds to me like /the '89 and later viscuous diff would work better in snow. How squirrelly /will an '87 or '88 be with open diffs? I briefly drove a Trooper recently and My 90 is the same configuration with the centre diff locked as an 88 in 4wd. I prefer the diff locked in snow and ice, not for reasons of traction, but because this makes the rear break free easier so you can steer with teh back. This is almost impossible with the centre diff unlocked - damn thing understeers like a pig! From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Mar EST 1909 Date: 02 Mar 95 09:05:52 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for 89 Range Rover > I have a probing question about the springs and shocks on a 89 Range Rover > (66K miles). Under hard braking (in straight line) the car has recently > developed a tendency to pull to the right. ... to which John answered: > IMO, thje most likely cause of the problem is the front bushings on the > rear radius arms -- they need replacing. They wear rapidly and cause just > the symptoms you relate. Replacement is very easy. I'll go along with John there. @ 66K miles, the suspension bushings are *crying* for a replacement. Parts are cheap, and replacement is, well, relatively easy - but be sure to observe and apply the correct torque all around after having de-rusted and cleaned (but not greased!) all threads. Use new nuts! And while you're at it, I'd replace *all* the bushings on front _and_ back radius arms, the rear A-bracket, and the front panhard rod. If you feel adventurous and have some time and a well equipped workbench you might also want to check the joints/bushes of the self-leveling unit. Bit of a knuckle-skinning job, though, and not *really* neccessary. Sagging springs & weak shocks, even if present, don't usually cause a braking problem like you relate. I've seen Range Rovers drive around that looked like they had a flat - except they didn't. Stefan From stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Thu Mar 02 09:30:01 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 09:30:01 -0500 From: stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Subject: Re: Breakover Angles >Date: Wed, 1 Mar 1995 17:00:12 -0500 (EST) >From: Dixon Kenner [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > you are leaning about 20 degrees it begins to get un-nerving, let > alone 40-45 degrees. (no, haven't tried & not sure I want to yet) A personal note here. The local Land Rover Dealer (Atlanta, GA) has a special "test course" that they use to demonstrate the merchandise. The course is paved, but it includes 45 degree approach and departure angles, and a 36 degree side angle. Having taken my own Disco through the course, I can offer a strong second to Dixon's comments. At 36 degrees, you feel like you're damn near upside down! ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (404) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (404) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Mar 2 06:55:26 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 06:55:26 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: 80" coilers >> yum, yum Say Taylor, Let us know who is going to build these 80" Series Is with Defender Bulkheads (and windscreens), (with tastefully de-waisted A-posts, of course), 3.9--no make that 4.5--V-8s, autobox, viscous coupling, military lightweight bodywork from the bulkhead forward, Rancho springs (11"/15" wheel travel), of course throw in Macnamara diffs, Safety Devices cages, did I forget anything? Oh, yeah, ABS to offset the autobox. How about a center-mounted 10,000 lb pto winch, with fairleads at both ends? I think it's fair to suggest that we could get up a pretty good-sized bulk order for these puppies. Provided that you can keep the price below $20,000... Granville Pool Redwood Valley, California, USA (707) 485-7220 Home, (707) 463-4265 Work '52, '60, '61, '73, and '74 SWB Land-Rovers and Austin Champ (military 4x4) From Mike Slade Thu Mar 02 08:12:50 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 08:12:50 -0600 (MDT) From: Mike Slade Subject: LR for sale Here's my Rover for sale: I've got an '88 for sale in a couple of months. I've been waiting for my coil sprung 109 to arrive and bought this one in the interim. Here are the specs: 1966 '88, 2.25 petrol (still regular petrol head), tropical roof w/alpine windows, two inward facing rear seats, OD, Fairey FW hubs, 16' Dunlop Mud Rover tyres (practically brand new), 61,XXX ORIGINAL miles, it's my daily driver and just rebuilt the carb last night. Oh, speaking of carbs, it has a Rochester. Runs great! Frame, EXCELLENT. Price, $6500 Send inquiries to: Michael Slade slcn3@cc.usu.edu 801 753 3901 From Sanna@aol.com Thu Mar 2 10:19:36 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:19:36 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: LRO Digest >Since the Series Rovers are seemingly fond of leaking fluids, does that mean the 'my' Disco eventually will too? The old series trucks didn't eventually start leaking fluids, they were incontinent from birth. Not all at once, mind you, but if it wasn't oil it was water, or gas, or clutch fluid, or brake fluid. They took turns. My RR, on the other hand, has retained its fluids perfectly (once I replaced the power stearing pump). I wouldn't be too concerned with the Disco. The series trucks are a world of there own. No vehicle that I know of has the personality and quirks of an old Land Rover. In what other car could you kill the engine by swearing at it, or get out of an impossible situation with a few kind words. You may have to put up with a lot, but they ALWAYS get you home. PS: I've had my IIa for 25 years & 1/3 million miles, and I just past it on to my son at college. Still running. From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Thu Mar 02 10:42:13 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 10:42:13 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: How many Rovers?... A number of people have speculated about how many "series" Rovers are still tooling about the US. I've done a bit a research, and the figures are more or less confirmed by the folks at Rovers North, Atlantic British and Bruce at British Rovers (and I'm surprised I could get the first tow to agree on anything!). Rover never "officially" imported more that 12,800 vehicles beteween 1948 and 1974, though for all practical purposes, the start date was closer to 1954. (The company record keeping, I might add, was particularly horrid.) Add to this another 25% or so imported by "unofficial" means - i.e., returning military, private folks, your odd smuggled vehicle, etc. 16,000+- total...that's it. Of this, maybe 4,000 are on the road today (the number confirmed by the above sources) with an equal number that could be made road-worthy if enough time/money were thrown at them. 4,000 vehicles ain't much, folks. By comparison, there are 35,000 Rolls Royces over here. Spenny - the ROAV annual dues are *$15* and *such a deal* You can pay $20, if you want. ;-) Quarterly, *on time* issues, though last year, there were six editions. As a graduate of Jean-Paul Luc's ice driving school, I'd say success in snow driving is 50% drivers skill, 25% tires and 25% vehicle. The best snow tires are tall, narrow and sharp-shouldered (unless you drive on glaciers) with an aggressive, self-cleaning tread. Also important is the aspect ratio of the vehicle, that is wheel base vs. track width. By this definition, the best vehicle would be something like a Greyhound bus - long and narrow - while the worst is the Suzuki Samurai with a ratio of darn near 1:1. These things swap ends with wild abandon...and I steer clear of them. I once drove all the way into work in 5" of untracked on the median strip of the Interstate, trying to avoid the idiots playing bumper tag in the travel lanes. A jeep pulled out to follow me and he promptly ate a culvert. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "Neil E. Villacorta" Thu Mar 02 07:52:14 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 95 07:52:14 PST From: "Neil E. Villacorta" Subject: Ltd.slip ? Call me dumb: but "why" wouldn't you want limited slip differentials on a 4wd-system, such as a Disco or RR (full-time 4wd/viscous coupling)? P.S. Thanks for the invoice/retail posts on the Disco & D90; how the same for the RR & RR Classic? :-) neil Network Operations Manager Univ. of Calif. Santa Barbara From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Thu Mar 2 10:15:53 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:15:53 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Cold running problem - 2.25l petrol with Weber I'm having a cold weather idle problem. I have a 2.25l petrol engine with a single barrell weber carb. I can get the engine started just fine and everything seems okay for about a minute and then no matter how much choke or no choke I give it it will not hold an idle (at the point in the choke when it kicks in a higher idle speed the engine will just run rough, miss, and stall out like the mixture is too rich). High speed running is fine and there is plenty of power but when I come to stop it usually just stalls. This can go on until the engine is warm and then it goes away - also I can drive the truck for a little bit, stop (before it is really warmed up and still not holding an idle) go do something, come back and it runs just fine. After the engine stalls out I can start it right back up and if I sit there with my foot on the gas all is fine. Now it seems to me that this problem started in some fashion after I replaced the gas tank - maybe I got some crud in the idle jet (how do I check this?). The problem has only gotten worst as I have recently changed over to a Jacobs OmniPack ignition system and opened the gap up on a new set of plugs another .005" (so I'm running them at .04" instead of .035"). I'm using champion N-12YC. The FAQ says N-12Y but they only have these N-12YCs now. Or maybe I should say that the problem has gotten a lot worst because of the colder weather which really seems to be bringing on this problem. I thought with the wider gap on the plugs that they were fouling but it runs just fine at higher revs. Also when I changed over to the new ignition system the timing slipped from 6 degress advanced to 15 degrees - as there was no pinging I just left it there as the engine seems to run fine. What would you check first. It runs better than it ever has now with all the changes that I have made except for the cold weather idle problem. Thanks- Greg From Steve Methley Thu Mar 2 16:36:16 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 16:36:16 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Cold running problem - 2.25l petrol with Weber Greg, I'd set the timing back to stock first of all and then make sure the carb was not icing due to lack of warm air intake at idle. I presume the little four banger has a warm air source (?). Wouldn't know from experience as I've only ever driven V8's, which don't need warm idle air by the way. Hope this helps, Steve. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Mar 2 09:24:55 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 09:24:55 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: How many Rovers?... In message <013.04110314.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> MR ALEXANDER P GRICE writes: > A number of people have speculated about how many "series" Rovers are still > tooling about the US. I've done a bit a research, and the figures are more snip > Of this, maybe 4,000 are on the road today (the number confirmed by the > above sources) with an equal number that could be made road-worthy if > enough time/money were thrown at them. 4,000 vehicles ain't much, folks. Lets see, by my calculations that means about 1.75% of all the remaining seies Land Rovers still on the road in the US made it to the last Portland All British field meet and about 1.25% make it to the Palo Alto All British car field meet. These groups except for one or 2 rigs are mutually exclusive Land Rover populations and represent a very small number of the Land Rovers along the coast from Monterey bay upwards. What does this signify? Don't know... but I sure thought there were a lot more than 4K on the road. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Spenny@aol.com Thu Mar 2 12:25:43 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:25:43 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Bad Newspam, Good Newspam Jim writes: Blahspam, blahspam, blahspam. snip... The good newspam is that all those who are on spam waiting lists with orders in will NOT be spamject to the price inspamcrease - LRNA(SPAM) will absorb the six **hundredspam** bucks for LRUK(SPAMUK). Of course, those who were agonizing over a purchase decision the past few weeks will unfortunately be spamed to the new MSpamRP. snip... BTW after all your whinning about how you dont mark stuff up how does this figure? Invoice MSRP cost @ MetroWest Fiberglass Top $1120 $1400 $2150 yeah, it's tax, no, duty, yeah, duty, for uh, bringing it across state lines. close to 50%, nice margin- Look, you have a right to make money, as much as you can get, but be honest about it and quit spamming around. I dont think he even reads the list. I think he just posts his drivel. I still want to know who owns the 107... spenny From Spenny@aol.com Thu Mar 2 12:25:42 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 12:25:42 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? Russ writes: Nigel: 1960 Series II 88, blindsider hardtop, snip... Needs paint (aw, no it doesn't). Asking $1,000,000.00 US but will settle for $950,000.00 snip... Russ, I am appalled, $1,000,000.00 for da nige, I wouldn't part with the wayback machine for a penny under $8,000,000.00 US, but I'll offer you $160,000.00 for your rear liftgate... Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From "Tom Rowe" Thu Mar 2 11:47:57 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 11:47:57 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: 45 deg. slope! & hydraulic clutches I've seen the tilt-o-meter photo too. Until you've tried it you can't appreciated a 45 degree side slope. I'm not even crazy about heading DOWN a 45 degree slope. Always in the back of my mind is, "I know that rear end is going to break loose soon!" But I guess thrills is what L/R's are about. It hasn't stopped me. On the clutch issue, I'm not sure if there was a concern being expressed there or not. I do know that the Jeep J20 we used on the farm for hauling wood had a mech. clutch and I hated it. In extreme frame twists (all too common) the linkage didn't work. That's great fun when you're backed up to a tree with a couple tons of oak in the back and you can't get it out of reverse. 'Course it also didn't have any brakes, so it was fun all around in the hills of Vermont. The last time my L/R clutch went I replaced both the master and slave cyl., flushed the lines and put in DOW silicone fluid. It's been several years and no problems. Did anyone else see the 90 in the ad (some kind of gum or something) during OP Center? Tom Rowe University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Dairy Research 1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Home:608-243-8660 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Mar 2 10:00:35 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 10:00:35 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Shocks & springs for 89 Range Rover Absolutely right Stefan; it's important about the fearsome torque and new nuts on all the bushings. Actually I've been gradually replacing all mine -- it's made a big difference. One thing I noted on mine is the fact that the A frame on the rear appears to be splayed enough so the bushes on the chassis end of its arms are both well off center (I can't recall offhand whether they are both near the inside or outs outside of the frame). I was curious whether you or anyone else have noticed the same thing, and whether it's usual. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Roger Sinasohn Thu Mar 2 10:11:26 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:11:26 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Why a L-R I think Gerry may be right, in that you're coming at this from a "normal car" point of view. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to recognize that this is *not* a normal car. It is, indeed, a way of life. I never owned a british car prior to the Land Rover; I came from a history of my mother's various citroen's (the French should make love, not cars) and my '74 Chevy Sportvan 20 -- named Sweet Pea. Best high performance sports car in the sate; never lost a race. Not terribly normal. My girlfriend has a normal car, a Mazda 323, bought new. Blech. But it gets us places. My younger brother has a '74 Camaro (bought a couple years ago) in primer grey, and a beat-up Subaru Brat. My youngest sister has an '85? Subaru wagon, with straps to hold down the bonnet, and more rust than the titanic. (Still, it got her cross country SF <--> RI several times.) Mostly not normal cars. If you've ever seen another vehicle (other than at a car meet or club) that looks a lot like yours, chances are it's a normal car. Nothing wrong with that; there are lots of times I wish I had a normal car. But that's not why one buys a Land Rover. You buy a Land Rover because it *is* quirky. You buy it so you can make jokes about Lucas Electrics, and then feel smug when your non-LR friends make fun of your electrical problems. It's like getting a dog or a cat. Sure, there are some people who examine the various characteristics of different breeds, and select one based on the benefit/drawback ratios, but most people go out, find a dog they like, take him home, and make him part of the family. That's what you have to do with a Land Rover. Perhaps the best thing to do is buy a cheap one that runs (mostly) and drive it around for a bit, much around with the insides, then decide if it's taken over your life or not. If it has, restore it or sell it and buy one all fixed up. And thanks for being a good sport! You'll make a good Rover owner if you get one, and if not, I'll still wave to you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Mar 2 10:11:32 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:11:32 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: March LRO already? > Internet Relay Chat. Its a real time interactive talk session via > computer. think of it as a typed N party line where N can be very large > (or as small as 2) Actually, you can have one with only one person, but they have to be kinda weird. Not that I would do that, of course. Anyway, it's a lot like the CB feature on Compuserve -- which of course is a computerized version of a CB. Everyone talks (types) and everyone else tuned to that channel hears (sees) everyone's comments. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger sinasohn@crl.com "Less guns than most Daves!" Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Dixon Kenner Thu Mar 2 13:17:23 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:17:23 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: How many Rovers?... On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, MR ALEXANDER P GRICE wrote: > A number of people have speculated about how many "series" Rovers are still > tooling about the US. I've done a bit a research, and the figures are more [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > "unofficial" means - i.e., returning military, private folks, your odd > smuggled vehicle, etc. 16,000+- total...that's it. What makes this difficult for Canada is: - Rover had no representation in the USA until the 1950's - When they started in N.A. they were based in Canada, - Before this that Land Rovers were sold via Rootes in Canada - 1,000's of vehicles were purchased by the provincial & federal governments, and by mining, oil & gas companies direct from the factory into the U.K. where these groups then shipped them to Canada. (Officially) - The British army has left a "few" here. - Add the unofficial numbers to the above. - Figure out why there are not a few pre-1954 vehicles running around in Canada. - Look at Taylor's little addition in LRO last month(?) on how many Series III's were produced and how his total was way out of line of the official figures (BTW, March LRO arrived Monday :-)) This total is skewed and we will probably never know the total that came over here. > Of this, maybe 4,000 are on the road today (the number confirmed by the > above sources) with an equal number that could be made road-worthy if > enough time/money were thrown at them. 4,000 vehicles ain't much, folks. > By comparison, there are 35,000 Rolls Royces over here. What is more interesting is to accept the 12,800 figure above and them look at LRNA's sales figures for 1994... 4,000 still on the road? Who knows... Probably correct, though there is no way to really know. Rgds, From Dixon Kenner Thu Mar 2 13:23:45 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:23:45 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? On Thu, 2 Mar 1995 Spenny@aol.com wrote: > Russ, I am appalled, $1,000,000.00 for da nige, > I wouldn't part with the wayback machine for a > penny under $8,000,000.00 US, > but I'll offer you $160,000.00 for your rear liftgate... none Careful, he's peddling damaged goods. I understand he washed da 'Nige about ten years ago... From Morgan Hannaford Thu Mar 2 10:55:43 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 10:55:43 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? BAY AREA LAND ROVERS FOR SALE: from the S.F. Chronicle. 1964 109 2 door, tropical top $5K 510-827-1994 1967 109 6cyl. Koenig PTO $7.5K 408-625-8114 or 408-625-8166 Lightweight Air Portable 88", ex RAF - Overdrive $10K 209-754-5802 or 209-754-1256 The latter two are in the collector cars section, so these folks think they have an oil well, not an oil leaker, in their drive. Ciao, Morgan U.C. Berkeley From Dixon Kenner Thu Mar 2 13:20:53 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 13:20:53 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Cold running problem - 2.25l petrol with Weber On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, Greg Hiner wrote: > What would you check first. It runs better than it ever has now with all > the changes that I have made except for the cold weather idle problem. You list of woes sounds exactly like mine. However we have determined the problem in the big green beastie is a distributor shaft that could more accurately be described as being in orbit. So long as the distributor shaft is way out of line, you will get the irregular running pattern you describe. Something else for you to take a quick look at... Rgds, From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Thu Mar 2 19:54:47 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 19:54:47 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: Leanness, Dash Lites, spinning in snow, LR education Re: interior mounting of radios, etc A very nice design study is presented in LRO (march '95) for a new Defender 90" dash. One of the more impressive articles I've seen in LRO in recent months content wise, almost makes me hopeful for the next issue. ------------------------- Re: land rover training: Land Rover itself: 1-day 110GBP/day, one day and two day programs choices of current production rovers (best off with the one you drive, eh !) -------------------------- >Robin writes: >>Is it in the march 95 issue of LRO? >*March?!?* Arrgghh! I just got February!!! none Yes robin the collectors article (and a couple other notes with canadian references are in the March issues (which I finished reading...) ----------------- Re: Leanness >> 2. The folks at Turner say the single Barrel Weber's run too lean. Is this >> true? I have a rebuilt Zenith (new throttle bushings!). should I use this? >> I could jet the Weber richer if we know what jet to use! > When I got my smog check done, I was running a little rich. yeah, but that is idle to moderate speeds, fuel delivery usually is plentiful, leanness is often more a problem until higher revs (like my friend's Milano which ran fine until he opened it up on the track and then he holed a piston, and, damn, did it twice before they took to the injector... ---------------------------------------------- Re: Dash Lights: >Anybody got any cross reference numbers for those little pesky light bulbs >in the dash on the IIA. I'm talking about the cold start, oil pressure, >high beam, and alternator lights. Can I pick those up at any auto parts >store or must I go to Rovers North? Check out a line-card for automotive and industrial lamps - as in GE or Sylvania.. you'll need to know the base style (screw, single contact), the globe style (S-# for spherical & # for globe diameter), etc. to match it up. Try a Graybar catalog (ought to be one in the back of any electonics workshop) --------------------------------------- Re: spinning in snow: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) writes: >Most likely ... was still in 2WD?? yeah but then it still comes down to driver idiocy or lack of tyres, which is (IMNSHO) still driver idiocy.... With four hakkapeliittas on my Ford XR4Ti (Sierra/Merkur - RWD, open diff, with a tempermental turbocharged 2.3l] I've passed anything on the road in snow, and on sheet ice*. With stock ride height that car was good for about 4-5" of snow before you had to worry about clearance effects... * Except at the ice trials, but then that wasn't on the road, and _averaging_ 38mph on a _cleared_ frozen lake _circuit_ doesn't suck does it ? ----------------------------- Re: LR education taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) writes: >To all the people with Series I's outfitted like I said would be stupid... >You know what I mean. I didn't mean to be specific. but you should be more specific...at least in your questions... Well, maybe taylor, you've got to stop 'virtually' investigating land rovers, and go and really investigate land rovers. Actually use other, more complete sources of information than just the people here (like a couple dozen of the books listed in the FAQ), after all you are a college boy aren't you, I mean, clemson does have a library, and probably has interlibrary loan, and there must be some books out there they can retrieve that have landrovers in them... people generally don't mind being asked questions, but it begins to get damn annoying when it feels like the person asking the question isn't venturing any further than their armchair (keyboard) before coming up with the next one... Part of my job is training other people how to do things, but in that situation, it is a lot more rewarding to have the person come back with the next more difficult problem than to repeat the same (level of) problem again and again... [and sometimes you have shown progress in the difficulty of your questions] It doesn't help that half of what you asked is pretty well covered in the FAQ and WEB pages (kinda shows that you've haven't done your homework) So continue your quest for a land rover education, do some reading, get some copies of the magazine, abuse your interlibrary loan desk, and please, do ask us more questions, but if they're less general and more specific, maybe after you've seen one close up and looked at a bunch that are for sale, you can progress from the virtual or theoretical (dare I say academic) to the real world... By now you should have figured that any question you ask that is subjective will get both pro and con answers, and it comes down to user preference, and you won't form your preferences by asking questions, only by experiences, you know, observation and experimentation... RTFM (the faq, the web notes, the LR history books, repair books) Then apply the scientific method to observing the real thing and coming to your own conclusions... --------------------------------------- Re: spinning in snow: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) writes: >Most likely ... was still in 2WD?? yeah but then it still comes down to driver idiocy or lack of tyres, which is (IMNSHO) still driver idiocy.... With four hakkapeliittas on my Ford XR4Ti (Sierra/Merkur - RWD, open diff, with a tempermental turbocharged 2.3l] I've passed anything on the road in snow, and on sheet ice*. With stock ride height that car was good for about 4-5" of snow before you had to worry about clearance effects... * Except at the ice trials, but then that wasn't on the road, and _averaging_ 38mph on a _cleared_ frozen lake _circuit_ doesn't suck does it ? Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From "Lapa, Hank" Thu Mar 02 14:49:09 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 95 14:49:09 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Subject: Disco MSRP All, Just confirmed with my two local dealers that the new, $600 higher MSRP on Disco took effect......yesterday, March 1st. Was this a big secret by LRNA or did dealers know in advance (days, weeks)? Oh well, this affects me, and I *would've* put my deposit down by last Monday had I had warning or clue. Anyway, I'm all the more determined NOT to get my brush bar, mats, jump seats, CD, etc., from dealer. RN and ABP are both sending me their Disco equip lists. Live and learn (live and pay), Hank :-( P.S., One dealer says 1-2 month wait, the other says 3-6 months. Do all dealers get their L-Rs in the same manner? From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Mar 2 12:26:20 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:26:20 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? In message <950302122541_37080800@aol.com> writes: > Russ writes: > Nigel: 1960 Series II 88, blindsider hardtop, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 26 lines)] > Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! > What will they think of next! Spenny, I would be happy to sell you both top and lower parts of the tailgate off The Green Rover for US$160,000. I would even be happy to throw in my extra set of tail 7 turn signal assemblies and 2 window sides for a 109 2 door top TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Mar 2 12:43:57 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 12:43:57 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Why a L-R In message <199503021811.AA05033@crl5.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > I think Gerry may be right, in that you're coming at this from a "normal > car" point of view. Nothing wrong with that, but you have to recognize > that this is *not* a normal car. It is, indeed, a way of life. huh? > But that's not why one buys a Land Rover. You buy a Land Rover because it > *is* quirky. Oh? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California Good Golly! Is this true? I've owned the The Green Rover since '78 and I had not realized it was not a normal car or that it was unusually quirky (Are you sure this is the case?). My Land Rover is a lot like my other cars. Even has several of the same parts though it seems to have a few more parts in common with the TR3 than with the MGB. land Rovers not normal cars? Hmmm Are you shure? I mean really positive? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Mar 02 16:25:32 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 16:25:32 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: RR US Prices Ok, ok, but this is the LAST one: (don't even THINK of asking me to look up a jeep) Invoice Retail County Classic $39850 $45000 Long Wheelbase $46500 $52500 4.0SE $47825 $54000 County Classic $400 $500 Light Stone Interior CA Emissions $100 $100 Bulooogaa Black $250 $300 RH Starting Crank $12 $23.74 LH Starting Crank $14 $97.32 (SF only) LH Fan (SF only) $37 $56.14 Grey Poupon $4.95 $68.95 Mustard Holder French's Golden $4.95 $18.50 Mustard Holder Dest $625 $625 Have fun. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From Dixon Kenner Thu Mar 2 16:54:31 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 16:54:31 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RR US Prices On Thu, 2 Mar 1995, maloney wrote: > Ok, ok, but this is the LAST one: Here are the Canadian suggested retail (from Land Rover Canada) Invoice Retail Canada (in US$**) 1994 Defender 90 33,800 (24,165) 1995 Disco 5 passenger, cloth, manual 41,900 (29,954) 5 passenger, cloth, auto 43,575 (31,151) 5 passenger, leather, auto 45,375 (32,438) 7 passenger, leather, auto, sunroofs 48,995 (35,026) County Classic $39850 $45000 65,900 (47,111) Long Wheelbase $46500 $52500 73,930 (52,852) 4.0SE $47825 $54000 79,900 (57,120) * Canadian prices do not include PST or GST, but include P.D.I., air conditioning excise tax and freight. Dealers are under no obligation to comply with the "suggested retail" price. ** Canadian Dollar is worth .7149 cents U.S. as of Wednesday. It has been nearer the 70 cent level until the latest Federal budget that chopped Federal spending quite a bit up here. From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Thu Mar 2 18:17:08 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 18:17:08 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: An embarrassing day! Set out early this morning in the Rover to help a friend at Camp Fortune with the race timing for the Junior National Cross Country Ski Races. When I arrived at Camp Fortune I noticed JEEP signs everywhere. OK, not so bad! Parked the Rover and went to the timing hut to see my friend. He says to me "Before you start check in at the volunteer trailer, for a jacket and hat!". I then noticed that everyone was nicely color coordinated in "tourquise and purple" gear. I check in at the volunteer hut, and they hand me a baseball cap with "ski JEEP" on it and a jacket with "ski JEEP" in BIG, BOLD letters across the back. No there was no way I could wear it inside out. It was a good thing that the Rover was parked down the hill and didn't see me put it on!@ Best of all I had to turn it in at the end of the day, and didn't have to keep it hidden in the closet! To fellow OVLR members, do you think there is anyway that we could convince anyone at Land Rover Canada to sponsor a Land Rover or Range Rover for this type of event? Apparently there were 3 JEEP Cherokees which had been sponsored and were being used as shuttle buses. Noticed when I got back home that the Rover was dripping oil from the cross member under the gearbox (Surprize!). It definitely smells like synthetic gear oil, not engine oil. Would the likely culprit be the front oil seal on the gearbox? Cheers! Richard From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Mar 02 18:27:30 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 18:27:30 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: LRO Digest Lucky Joe ponders... > As a potential Discovery owner, I've been reading the digest with much none ..........snip.......... > One thing that has kept me guessing is the longevity of the newer Land > Rovers. Will a DIsco or Defender still be an the road in 25 years? Since > the Series Rovers are seemingly fond of leaking fluids, does that mean > the 'my' Disco eventually will too? Anything can be made to last 25 years if it is properly maintained. From what some people have said, it *may* take a bit more of that "proper" maintenance for a new Rover than for one of the Series models. And YES, it will probably leak, and have electrical problems... After all, it's the heritage.... :-) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Mar 2 19:28:56 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 95 19:28:56 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Any 88's or 109's for sale??? > On Thu, 2 Mar 1995 Spenny@aol.com wrote: none [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > Careful, he's peddling damaged goods. I understand he washed > da 'Nige about ten years ago... Lies, lies, lies. Heckfire, Dixon, I've only owned Nigel for about 3 years or so. Only washed his underbelly for the fall's waxoyling. I let rain do the rest. And as for the farm rig (aka RoverRoach), which has been owned since new ('67), hell, it's never had a bath, 'cept in horse urine. Wash my rover? No. Proud? Yes. $160K for the tailgate? Throw in a Disco and we'll call it a deal! rd/nige From mark c ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 02 95 Mar EST 1920 Date: 02 Mar 95 20:00:09 EST From: mark c ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Disco mods Hello to those on Rover-Net. I am looking for some info on what sort of modifications folks have been making to their Discovery"s such as winches, more serious off road tires and locking diffs. I own a 94 disco and frequently off road in the mountains of north Georgia. Using a GPS reciever I have found several good trails not on the quad maps, and have plotted them on these maps. I would like to here from some other rover owners as to what types of events their clubs hold as our small group here is looking at putting together some events. From Gregory Brown Thu Mar 2 20:07:07 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Mar 1995 20:07:07 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Brown Subject: Universal Joints Ouch I just got a price from BP of $45 fro a single universal joint. Does anyone have a good alternative to this very pricey part? BP indicated that Land Rover has switched suppliers and this is the result. I have the smaller 2 15/16 u-joints. Currently the machine is parked since the u-joint just barely got me home from a trip to New Hampshire. Also does anyone have any more info on the DAP Britsh Rovers situation? I can not get ahold of Bruce and DAP has a message saying they are relocating to Springfield, VT. Cheers, Greg Brown '71 Series IIA 88 w/OD but spinning air!!!! From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Mar 02 19:20:31 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 19:20:31 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Triple C Stuff, etc. Yesterday I got most of the stuff I ordered from Triple C in CA. The Solido is a 3" III 109 wagon in dark green (can't believe what I paid for it). The door opens in the back, but it's too small to get Barbie & Bambi in the back. About the only thing you could get in the door is Pee Wee's hand. But I guess with Pee Wee, that's all you need. I saw the Land Rover Story video as soon as I got it. Fun stuff with all kinds of Rovers mostly on trials courses and off road situations. Dixon, there's even a segment on 101s. I'm glad I bought it. The Anything You Can Do video is almost as fun. It is good in that it shows good examples of normal British life. Like the farmers doing their stuff in jackets & ties, The average housewife finding the series I a comfortable convenient mode of transportation, gas being pumped by attractive attendants in white smocks, heels & pearls, and those randy old farmers chasing their cows around with their Land Rovers. Guess they haven't gotten to cow tipping yet. --------------------- I also got that Matchbox Fire Tender from Matchbox. I'm really amazed at the level of detail. Even the catches on the hood are painted. ------------------------ Re: Dixon's Canadian price posts. It sounds like it's cheaper to go up there and purchase a new Rover than to pick it up down here. Very interesting stuff. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Mar 02 17:27:19 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Mar 1995 17:27:19 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Universal Joints In message writes: different measurements mixed together, or at least so it seems to me. I've already eaten humble pie on that issue, thank you anyway :) I have noted Morgan Hannaford 's comment to realize that the breakover angle is the downhill slope from level, with the edge encroaching towards the undercarriage between the front and rear wheels while going over. (Maybe my message didn't get through, I can't tell.) Granville goes on to say: >As to the comparison of the sideslope capabilities, it seems to defy gravity but I have seen pictures of mogs tipped up to at least 30 degrees or more. And I have read, a number of times, over the years, that Land-Rovers can really do 45 degrees (yes, I know that's 100%). I know I've had mine up to where the downhill front tyre was almost pealing off the rim. But I don't want to be the one who tests just how far they'll go before rolling. All you have to do is hit a little dip or rock and over you go! then Craig Murray wrote: >I have a promotional video for the Unimog at home, and it states that the Unimog can traverse a side slope of 40 degrees! I stand corrected AGAIN, it is degrees, not percent for the Unimog*. In my spec' sheet for the U-404 series the side slope angle is _42_ degrees actually (or 90 percent slope) when empty. However, the Hummer is still at 40 percent side slope (21.8 degrees), which is approximately what Morgan Hannaford reports to be the recommended side slope for the Series Land Rovers at 23 degrees or so. As to reports about the Atlanta Rover dealership driving course having approach/departure slopes of 45 degrees each, this exceeds the design specifications of Range Rover County (30/30 degrees with spoilers, 40/30 w/o spoiler), Discos (38/28 degrees), and D-110 (50/35 degrees), leaving only the D-90 (50/52 degrees) able to approach the ramp. The _maximum_ gradient is 45 degrees for each class of vehicle under optimal conditions, making it a borderline demonstration of the positive capabilities of the Rover. As to a side slope of 45 degrees, I still say from paranoid experiences with my Series III, the vehicle would turn over WAY before approaching a 100 percent side slope (even when empty, not even a driver present!). Again, the report may be mixing up degrees with percent, as even 45 _percent_ (24.2 degrees) by itself is intutively a severe side slope. For now I'll reserve judgment until I "see it to believe it". Maybe someone would like to do a static test by jacking up their vehicle --with proper restraints of course-- to determine the balance point and measure the resulting angle. This could become an event at Rover meets, "Tossing Rovers" (Granville, do you like Michelob? We could bring a few cases, along with a high-lift jack, to the scouting outing or rallye in Mendocino). Cheers, Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com *see Unimogs at ftp://ftp.crl.com/ftp/users/ro/cs/unimog.html Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Fri Mar 3 08:24:53 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 08:24:53 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Jeeps in the snow In article writes: nowt, hit the wrong button........... Jeeps. Pah! get a motorbike. A few weeks back I was riding home up the Cross Foxes pass. Bit snowy. Lots of slow cagers getting in the way. Guy in a Daihatsu 4wd was the only other vehicle overtaking. Eventually I got past him and this seemed to pique his pride. So he put his foot down and followed me. Over the top of the pass, the descent has some bends. He lasted for 3 before he nearly lost it and bottled out. The consensus that it's 95% driver and 5 % vehicle is definitely true. No-one round here has a clue what to do with snow. There is no way a bike should be anything other than the SLOWEST vehicle on the road in snow, particulalry a sportbike designed on a racetrack, running rain-slicks. From Spenny@aol.com Fri Mar 3 06:34:20 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 06:34:20 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: Jeeps in the snow Stefan writes... macho was a complete idiot, thinking that raw engine power is the solution to all traction problems... snip... IQ measured in RPMs perhaps? spenny From Pierre Antony Ketteridge Fri Mar 03 11:07:32 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 11:07:32 GMT From: Pierre Antony Ketteridge Subject: Info/Anecdotes on Series II/IIA Hi there again, Pierre (Custodian of Allah) here again. Not much has been happening of late, apart from trying to rebuild Allah the Series I after the Mille Rivieres fiasco. More on that later (and perhaps an article in LRO). (And I intend to post an account in the next few days on my recent induction to offroad tuition - to 15-year-old schoolgirls - heh, heh - it was quite an eye-opener, I can tell you!) But more immediately, I have a favour to ask. Last month I was asked to write a feature for a new publication, 4x4 & OFFROAD MART, about Series Ones, naturally enough. No problem there, as I had my own experiences and anecdotes to draw on. However, they've now asked me to do a similar article for the second issue, about... Series II/IIAs. OK, I've driven a few, and can get most of the technical/mechanical info I need, but I like to flesh out my writing with anecdotal material too. Can anyone help, with the odd story, particular gripes/ loves etc? Maybe they'll want one on SIII later, then 90s, 110s, lightweights, FC101s, ...(I can always dream, can't I?) Any info gratefully accepted and acknowleged (digest and/or email). Thanks, -- Pierre ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Pierre Ketteridge | Series One "Sad Knacker" | Occasional Writer ------------------------------| ----------------------------------------------- Prophet of the Great God Glub | Offroad Instructor and Letche^H^H^H^HLecturer ------------------------------| ----------------------------------------------- | "Pubescent Schoolgirls A Speciality" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Fri Mar 3 12:02:03 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 12:02:03 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Snow driving /As a graduate of Jean-Paul Luc's ice driving school, I'd say success in /snow driving is 50% drivers skill, 25% tires and 25% vehicle. The best /snow tires are tall, narrow and sharp-shouldered (unless you drive on /glaciers) with an aggressive, self-cleaning tread. Also important is the Conversely, all the now-famous loony Icelandic offroaders use dumper tyres about 20inches wide........... From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Mar 03 08:23:21 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 08:23:21 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Clarifications from Unkle Mike Unkle Mike seems to be showing advanced signs of senility. Seems he forgot to cc this to the list: --------------------------------------- From Decklin Hackett Fri Mar 03 12:24:41 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 12:24:41 GMT From: Decklin Hackett Subject: List of secretaries The following information is correct as of 1.3.95 and was supplied by ARC Secretary Andrew Stavordale. Correspondence via internet can not be supported on a regular basis any correspondence regarding this information should be addressed to : Andrew J Stavordale, 65 Longmead avenue, Hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire, SK7 5PJ Telephone: +44 161 456 8224 Fax: +44 161 456 8224 SECRETARY LIST Updated February 11, 1995 Association of Rover Clubs A.J. Stavordale, 65 Longmead Avenue, Hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire, SK7 5PJ. 0161 456 8224 101 Forward Control Club & Register N. Kay, Denver Lodge,Burgate, North Newbald, East Yorkshire, YO4 3SG. 01430 827740 Bay State Rover Owners Association J. Pappas, P.O. Box 342,North Sciuate, Massachusetts 02060, U.S.A. 615 545 4743 Breckland Land Rover Club W. Chandler, 8 Acorn Road, North Walsham, Norfolk 01692 404453 Cheltenham and Cotswold Rover Owners Club `I. Wood, 21 Oldbury Road, Cheltenham, GL510HH 01242 230793 Chiltern Vale Rover Owners Club C. Argent, 21 Meadow Way, Codicote, Hitchin, Hertfordshire, SG4 8YL 01438 821581 Cornwall & Devon Land Rover Club M. Rolstone, 64 Sunnybanks Hatt, Saltash, Cornwall, PL12 6SA. 01752 846726 Cumbrian Rover Owners Club P. Anstiss, 11 Alder Close, Newton-with- Scales, Preston, Lancs. PR4 3TQ 01772 685735 Deutscher Land Rover Club in Hessen S. Jacobs, Klopstock Str 22, 65187 Weisbaden, Germany Dorset Land Rover & Range Rover Owners Club B. Dart, 26 St Clement's Road, Parkstone, Poole, Dorset BH15 3PD 01202748837 Dutch Land Rover Register P. Bakker, Sluswei 10, 9215 VX De Veenhoop, Holland 01031 51281511 East Northants Land Rover Club D.A. Vaughan, 1 Woodavens Close, Northampton, Northants, NN4 9TX 01604 763626 Essex Land Rover Club D. Bygrave, The Knoll, Bygrave Road, Ashwell, Nr. Baldock, Herts, SG7 5RH 01462 742418 First Land Rover Club Italia G. Novaresio, c/o Studionove,Via Orbetello 176, 10148 Torino, Italy 0112264252 Flower of Scotland Four Wheel Drive Rover Club K. Flynn, 2Craiglockhart Place, Edinburgh, EH14 1NA 0131 443 2881 SIIA/B Forward Control Register C.B. Heron, 28 Front Street, Daisy Hill, Sacriston, Co Durham, DH7 6BL 0191 371 2527 Hants & Berks Rover Owners G. Langton, Flat 1, Hillside Court, 16 Solent Road, Drayton, Portsmouth, Hampshire, PO61HH 01705 388929 Lancs & Cheshire Rovers Owners Club A.J. Stavordale, 65Longmead Avenue, Hazel Grove, Stockport, SK7 5PJ 0161 456 8224 Land Rover Register 1947-51 R. Lines, Ricoli, Conisholme Land Rover Series One Club D. Bowyer, East Foldhay, Zeal Monachorum, Crediton, Devon, EX17 6DH 01363 82666 Land Rover Series Two Club F. Myatt, 8 Willow Grove, Malvern Link, Worcestershire, WR14 2SE 01684 572644 Leicestershire & Rutland Land Rover Club M. Smith, 1 Yarwell Drive, Wigston,Leicester, LE8 1QF 01533 881041 Lighweight Land RoverClub S. Foster, 31 Slimbridge Close, Redbridge Park,Breightmet, Bolton, BL2 5NT 01204 396449 Lincolnshire LandRover Club G. Matthews, 6 Dunholme Road, Welton, Lincoln LN23RS 01673 860977 Midland Rover Owners Club S. Sheridan, 59 Ventor Avenue, Hogde Hill Nantwich Rover Owners Club G.R. Thompson, 70 Cambridge Drive,Clayton, Newcastle, ST5 3DQ 01782 617224 North Eastern Rover Owners Club G. Campbell, 1 Hawthorn Road,Blyth, Northumberland NE24 3DT 01670 362256 North Wales Land Rover Club D. Cuthbert, 25 SunningdaleAvenue, Colwyn Bay, Clwyd, LL29 6DF 01492 534417 Nottingham Land Rover Club A. Bentley, 19 Manns Leys,Cotgrave, Nottingham P6 Rover Owners Club D. Johnson, 36 St. Augustines Avenue,South Croydon, Surrey, CR2 6TG 0181 688 8263 Peak and Dukeries Land Rover ClubI. Joustra, 181 School Road,Crookes Sheffield S10 1GJ 0742 667724 Pennine Land Rover Club I. Hill, 2 Westbourne Road,Pontefract, West Yorkshire WF8 4JY 01977 707895 Range Rover Register L. Booth, 128 Balmoral Road,Gillingham, Kent, ME7 4QR 01634 280759 Red Rose Land Rover Club B.L. Hart, 75 Coniston Road, Fulwood, Preston, Lancs, PR2 4AY 01772 709391 The Rover Sports Register A.E. Hall, 50 Ash Road, Shirley,Croydon, CR0 8HU 0181 777 4730 Scottish Land Rover Owners Club A. Walker, 77 Albert Avenue,Glasgow, G42 8RA 0141 423 8671 Somerset & WiltshireRover Owners Club M. Bourne, 9 Burrowfield Square, Bruton,Somerset BA10 0HR 01749 812572 Southern Rover Owners Club T. McCartney, 5 Regency Way,Crooklog, Bexley Heath, Kent, DA6 8BT 0181 301 5451 Staffordshire & Shropshire Land Rover Club V. Johnson, 4 Waltham House, Overend Street, West Bromwich, B70 6ER 0121 553 4070 Swedish Land Rover Club C-E. Lundkvist, Saturnusvagen 31,S-184 50 Akersberga, Sweden 08 540 21498 Wye and Welsh Rover Owners Club P. Slingerland, Old Bakery,The Square, Ruardean, Glos. GL17 9TJ 01594 54405 Yorkshire Rover Owners Club D. Barker, Rivendell, 2 Huby Bank, Huby, North Yorkshire, LS17 0AH 01423 734412 -- From Decklin Hackett Fri Mar 03 12:16:58 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 12:16:58 GMT From: Decklin Hackett Subject: ARC Info The following information is correct as of 1.3.95 and was supplied by ARC Secretary Andrew Stavordale. Correspondence via internet can not be supported on a regular basis any correspondence regarding this information should be addressed to : Andrew J Stavordale, 65 Longmead avenue, Hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire, SK7 5PJ Telephone: +44 161 456 8224 Fax: +44 161 456 8224 The Association of Rover Clubs was established in 1978 to replace the Rover Owners' Association and comprises around 35 regionally and nationally based clubs incorporating all types and ages of Rover vehicles. The preceding organisation, the R.O.A., was organised by British Leyland Ltd. and membership was open to all owners of Rover vehicles. Around 1977 the Company decided to withdraw from Club organisation and suggested that the affiliated Rover Clubs should organise a new Association. This became the Association of Rover Clubs where membership is open to Clubs both in Great Britain and Overseas providing they are Clubs whose rules confine them to Rover vehicles. Because of RAC Motor Sport Association requirements, members of competitive Clubs can become individual members. This is done purely for motor sport purposes and we suggest that individuals contact one of the Member Clubs for membership details. Most of the present Member Clubs welcome Rover enthusiasts of all types but obviously some specialist Clubs concentrate on certain kinds - such as the Rover Sports Register, who include all models of Rover Cars from 1904 to the present day. The Land Rover Register (1947-51) are involved in the historical development of the Land Rover and tracing early vehicles, or the Hants & Berks Rover Owners are a Club who welcome and cater for any type of Rover enthusiast in their locality. Aims of the A.R.C. include development of interest in all new Rover products, vehicles and optional extras; together with organisation of Caravan Rallies; 4 wheel drive motor sports which vary from Gymkhanas and Road Taxed Vehicle Trials through to full Cross Country Trials and Speed Events. We are registered with the R.A.C. Motor Sports Association as a Motor Club and have Committee representation. For Competitions we have a National set of Vehicle Regulations for any competitor entering another Club's events anywhere in the Country. We hold a Caravan Exemption Certificate issued by the Department of the Environment for the purpose of allowing caravan rallies. The annual 'National Rally', usually organised at Whitsun by one of the Member Clubs has, since the establishment of the A.R.C. attracted between 400 and 500 caravans with oversubscribed Cross Country Events and other competitions including Concourse D'elegance, Childrens Bike Trials, Autojumbles etc. The renewal of old friendships and the creation of new acquaintances are all part of the National Rally together with amicable rivalry between Clubs and individual competitors. Another primary object of the A.R.C. is to maintain a strong link with the various Rover Companies and particularly with Land Rover Limited in these economically difficult times. Quarterly A.R.C. committee meetings are regularly held at the Solihull Plant and the Company support the Club in many ways, including provision of trophies, information of new vehicles, equipment and changes in law, including Common Market regulations. The Association can offer reduced rates for RAC Motoring Services which includes roadside assistance, recovery and legal help. Finally, the Association is fostering new links with Overseas Clubs and information and newsletters are exchanged with over 80 Clubs throughout the world. If you are travelling abroad many Overseas Clubs will provide excellent hospitality if they are contacted prior to departure and in return, it may be possible to take them parts which are in short supply in their country. The Association welcomes all new members and, as a member you will find the appreciation of Rovers transcends all other barriers. For details of how to join this friendly group please contact the Club Secretary of your choice. -- From Decklin Hackett Fri Mar 03 12:27:15 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 12:27:15 GMT From: Decklin Hackett Subject: ARC Committee The following information is correct as of 1.3.95 and was supplied by ARC Secretary Andrew Stavordale. Correspondence via internet can not be supported on a regular basis any correspondence regarding this information should be addressed to : Andrew J Stavordale, 65 Longmead avenue, Hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire, SK7 5PJ Telephone: +44 161 456 8224 Fax: +44 161 456 8224 ARC Executive Committee following AGM of March 19th 1994 Chairman Peter Oakden, Oak Cottage, Wood Lane, Norton-Juxta-Twycross, Atherstone, Warwickshire CV9 3QB, 0827 880677 Vice Chairman Dennis Bourne, 124 Crescent Drive, Petts Wood Nr Orpington, Kent, BR5 1BE, 0689 839458 Secretary Andrew Stavordale, 65 Longmead Avenue Hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire SK7 5PJ, 061 456 8224 Treasurer Lawrence Johnson, 4 Waltham House, Overend Street, West Bromwich, West Midlands, B70 6ER, 021 553 4070 Caravan Secretary Jim Campbell, 397 Plessey Road, Blyth Northumberland, NE24 3LP, 0670 352456 Overseas Liaison Fran Luxton, Woodbine Cottage, Lamerton Officer Nr. Tavistock, Devon PL19 8RZ, 0822 610650 Rights of Way and Land Use Tony Kempster, Knelle Hill Lodge, Beckley Officer Rye, East Sussex, TN31 6UD, 0797 252371 National Rally Liaison Harold Lowe, 89 Broadwood Drive, Fulwood Officer Preston, PR2 4TE, 0772 716956 Magazine Editor Ted Ivory, Tor View Nurseries, Chilsworthy Beam, Gunnislake, Cornwall, PL18 9AT, 0822 832564 Press, Publicity and Wendy Roberts, The Old Reading Rooms, Sponsorship Bridgend, Loswithiel, Cornwall, PL22, 0208 873319 Rover Company Liaison Peter Oakden, Oak Cottage, Wood Lane, Norton-Juxta-Twycross, Atherstone, Warwickshire CV9 3QB, 0827 880677 Technical Officer Ken Knight, Bird Lymes Cottage, Porton, Salisbury, Wiltshire, 0980 610776 Minutes Secretary Sandra Bourne, 124 Crescent Drive, Petts Wood Nr Orpington, Kent, BR5 1BE, 0689 839458 Club Shop Graham G. Chick, 37 Sharfleet Drive, Strood, Kent, ME2 2TY, 0634 715639 Non-Competitive Clubs Tony Holder, Blue Fir, Bellingdon, Chesham Liaison Buckinghamshire, HP5 2XW, 0494 783437 RAC MSA Liaison Harold Carman, 86 Moughland Lane, Runcorn, Cheshire, WA7 4SQ, 0928 564388 Shows & Displays June & Jack Green, Ovingdon, The Terrace, Coordinator Shotley Bridge, Consett, Co. Durham, DH8 0EZ, 0207 590871 CCMSA Coordinator Andrew Neaves, 8 Easthouse Drive, Hurley, Nr Atherstone, Warwickshire, CV9 2HB, 0827 874008 Scrutineering Committee (Chairman) David Marsh, 28 Springfield Close, Plymstock, Plymouth, Devon, PL9 8QG, 0503 240590 Steve Kirby, 244 Staines Road, Twickenham Middlesex, TW2 5AR, 081 894 3961 John Hewitson, 2 Offini Close, Sandwell Valley West Bromwich, 021 553 1547 Norman Whiteley, 10 Thorncliffe, Kirkburton Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, HD8 0UG 0484 603564 Dennis Wright, 14 Dale Close, Skegby, Sutton-in-Ashfield, Notts, NG17 3AF, 0623 515393 Mick Gillet, 65 The Straits, Lower Gornal, Dudley, West Midlands, DY3 3AL, 0902 884407 Gary D. Chick, 3 Wakefield Close, Strood, Kent, ME2 2RL, 0634 727440 Harold Carman, 86 Moughland Lane, Runcorn Cheshire, WA7 4SQ, 0928 564388 Mr M Dransfield, Land Rover Replacements, Coach House Buildings, Cardwell Terrace, Savile Road, Dewsbury WF12 9NP, 0924 274587 -- From Decklin Hackett Fri Mar 03 12:29:10 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 12:29:10 GMT From: Decklin Hackett Subject: ARC Regs The following information is correct as of 1.3.95 and was supplied by ARC Secretary Andrew Stavordale. Correspondence via internet can not be supported on a regular basis any correspondence regarding this information should be addressed to : Andrew J Stavordale, 65 Longmead avenue, Hazel Grove, Stockport, Cheshire, SK7 5PJ Telephone: +44 161 456 8224 Fax: +44 161 456 8224 ARC VEHICLE REGULATIONS The general regulations (section A) apply to all vehicles entered in trials and timed events. The standard class regulations (section B) apply to vehicles which are entered in a class defined as 'Standard ...'. The special class regulations (section C) apply to vehicles wh= ich are entered in a class defined as 'Special ...'. General supplementa= ry regulations (section D) apply to all vehicles. Specific supplementar= y regulations (sections E to K) apply to vehicles entered in the event = to which the regulations relate. The following regulations apply from 1st January 1995 and supersede a= ll previous versions. Where a regulation has been changed from 1994 the= old regulation is printed in italics after the 1995 version. Where a regulation is newly introduced for 1995, it is printed in underlined = text. Section A - General Regulations A.1 SOURCE The vehicle shall originally be of Land Rover or Range Rover de= sign and must use chassis components of Land Rover or Range Rover de= sign maintaining a main chassis rail separation of Land Rover or Ran= ge Rover specification. Strengthening may be incorporated as required. The grafting of two or more chassis types is permitt= ed, providing that in the scrutineers opinion sufficient strength i= s retained. Cross members and outriggers may be replaced by sect= ions of equal or greater strength than the original. The use of 'ra= il', space' or 'monocoque' chassis construction is prohibited until = Land Rover or Range Rover supply a production model on the UK market incorporating one or more of these methods of construction, in which case its use shall be restricted to those vehicles in a standard class only. The vehicle shall originally be of Land Ro= ver manufacture. A.2 VEHICLE CLASSES A.2.1 Trials:- Class 1 Standard 80" Class 2 Standard 86", 88" Series I & Lightweight, petrol and diesel Standard 86", 88" Series I & Lightweight, petrol and diesel 199= 7 to 2286cc. Class 3 Standard 88" Series II, IIa and III. petrol & diesel. Class 4 Standard Ninety (92.9") petrol, diesel, and diesel-turbo. Class 5 Standard LWB, LWB V8; One Ten petrol, diesel and diesel turbo; Range Rover and Discovery petrol, petrol injection and diesel turbo; Forward controls various. Class 6 Special 80" leaf sprung Special 80" Class 7 Special 86" & 88" Series I and lightweight, leaf sprung Special 86" & 88" Series I and lightweight. Class 8 Special 88" Series II, IIa & III, leaf sprung Special 88" Series II, IIa & III Class 9 Special coil sprung, 80" wheelbase Class 10 Special coil sprung, minimum 86" wheelbase Special coil sprung, 86", 88" and Ninety Class 11 Special LWB, leaf sprung, any Rover engine A.2.2 Competitive Safari:- Class 1 Standard leaf sprung. Up to 2000cc 4 cylinder petrol and up to 2286cc diesel engine. Class 2 Standard leaf sprung. 2001cc to 2495cc petrol or 2287cc to 2495= cc diesel & LWB 2625cc 6 cylinder petrol. Class 3 Standard. Range Rover, Discovery, One Ten & LWB V8. Class 4 Standard, turbo diesel. Ninety, Range Rover, Discovery, One Ten. Class 5 Standard, petrol injection. Range Rover, Discovery. Class 6 Special. Leaf sprung up to 3000cc. Class 7 Special. Leaf sprung above 3000cc. Class 8 Special. Coil sprung up to 3000cc, & Ninety. Class 9 Special. Coil sprung above 3000cc, & Ninety. A.2.3 The Defender range of vehicles are covered by their Ninety/90 a= nd OneTen/110 equivalents. A.2.4 Standard production vehicles from Land Rover Ltd. built after January 1st 1993 which do not have a competition class of their own are to be allowed to compete in the class wh= ich nearest fits their specification. A.3 SEATS Seats must be firmly fixed and doors securely fastened. A.4 EXHAUST SYSTEM These may be altered but noise shall be kept to a reasonable le= vel and the system shall not pass through thedriver or passenger compartment. Exposed parts must be suitably guarded. A.5 RADIATORS & PLUMBING A.5.1 All coolant hoses and pipework must be separated from the passenger/driver compartment by means of lagging (if metal pipework) and= a solid metal cover (if rubber pipework) to protect all persons including spectators. A.5.2 All open pipework is to be protected irrespective of quality. A.5.3 The radiator shall be shielded from the driver/passenger compartment. Louvred vents are acceptable as radiator shielding. A.5.4 The fan should be protected by a grille. A.5.5 If a bonnet is lost on a Comp. Safari, a front-radiator vehicle will not be allowed to continue until the radiator/engine compartment is protected again. A.6 STEERING & AXLES A.6.1 Under no circumstances will steering gear parts that have been = cut, cut-out, bent, broken or welded be allowed. A.6.2 Axles may have strengthening material welded to them. A.6.3 Steering rods may not have additional material welded to them. A.6.4 'Sleeved' tubes are permitted but may have to be removed at the scrutineer's discretion to allow examination of the contained = part. A.7 WHEELS A.7.1 Road wheels shall be of steel construction, have a rim diameter= of 15" or 16" and not have an offset between the outer flat of the nave plate to the outer flange of the rim of more than 100mm. All Land Rover, Range Rover and Discovery steel wheels comply with this regulation. A.7.2 No wheel or hub spacers are allowed. A.7.3 "8-Spoke" or similar non-Rover wheels are allowed but may be subject to particularly detailed scrutiny. A.7.4 There shall be only four wheels fitted to the vehicle. A.8 TYRES A.8.1 Any size tyres may be used so long as they have a maximum infla= ted diameter of 33" and that the 100mm wheel offset limit (rule A.7.1) is not exceeded. Forward Control Land Rovers (all typ= es) may have larger diameter tyres. A.8.2 Tyres must not be of tractor or implement type or be fitted wit= h studs or chains. Tractor and implement tyres have a "V"-shaped tread of separate blocks of rubber like the ones fitted to = the driving wheels of tractors and dumper trucks. A.9 SUSPENSION Spring shackle plates should be the same type as those fitted b= y the manufacturer and be a maximum of 6" between pin centres. If greater than 5" between pin centres they shall incorporate a centre strengthening device. A.10 SHOCK ABSORBERS/DAMPERS A.10.1 Shock-absorbers/dampers must be fitted. As many shock- absorbers/dampers as wanted may be fitted. "Coil-over" designs are acceptable and are classed as shock-absorbers/dampers. A.10.2 Axle check straps and bump stops are not mandatory. A.11 FUEL TANKS A.11.1 All fuel tanks must be securely fixed in place, be of metal construction, have a leakproof cap, a self sealing vent and be isolated from the driver/passenger compartment by the best possible method commensurate with the vehicle design. Underseat lids should be screwed down with a gasket. The very minimum protection for an early underseat filler is the cap separately sealed. A.11.2 Vehicles factory fitted with plastic fuel tanks are acceptable. A.11.3 The fuel filler cap must be located in a safe place. If the fue= l tank is in the rear of the vehicle, a separate metal cover must be fitted even if a truck cab is fitted. The basic them= e is to prevent fuel leaking onto the driver/navigator or out of the vehicle if it is inverted. A.12 SILHOUETTE (Note:- The "body capping line" on a Land Rover is defined as a horizont= al line level with the top edge of the fixed rear load area surround. The "window line" on a Range Rover and Discovery is level with the bottom edge of the side windows.) A.12.1 Below the body capping line:- A.12.1.1 The silhouette of the bodywork below the body capping line on a Land Rover or window line on a Range Rover must be strictly complied with; the chassis, fuel tank etc. are not considered. A.12.1.2 There shall be no alteration to the manufacturer's original wheelbase of the vehicle. A.12.1.3 Sills may be removed and wings cut away, provided they present no sharp edges. Inner faces of the wings (those ei= ther side of the radiator panel on a Land Rover) should be present so as not = to alter the silhouette of the body. A.12.1.4 The tailgate may be removed. A.12.1.5 The use of Ninety/OneTen/Defender/LWB 109" V8 style bonnets, grilles and front panels is allowed on 88" Series II, IIa and III vehicl= es. A.12.2 Above the body capping line:- A.12.2.1 The body parts above the body capping on a Land Rover and above the window line on a Range Rover and a Discovery may be removed. A.12.3 Bonnets must be retained in place. A.12.4 If wide axles have been fitted to a narrow vehicle such that th= e wheels/tyres protrude from the bodywork, then wheel arch flares/ spats/extensions must be fitted to cover them. Such items are not deemed= to be part of the silhouette. This is permissible in order to make the vehi= cle road-legal or to prevent too much mud and stones being thrown about. A.12.5 The shortening of a chassis is permitted providing the wheelbas= e matches the body being used. For example, if you shorten a LWB leaf spru= ng chassis to go under a Lightweight body, the wheelbase must be the same measurement as in a Lightweight and body specifications and appearance m= ust be exactly as in a Lightweight. All welding, joints and strengthening pl= ates on the chassis must be of the highest standard. A.13 BUMPERS & CROSS-MEMBERS A.13.1 On Land Rovers, bumpers and rear cross-members must be straight= , have at least similar strength to the original fitment, must not be bent to gain any advantage and shall be mounted in = the original position with the front and rear faces presenting flat vertical planes. A.13.2 Series I bumpers are 5'0" wide and lightweight bumpers must be = more than 4'11" wide, Series II and III bumpers are 5'3=F3" wide and Ninety/OneTen bumpers are 5'6" wide. Dimensions are min= imum size. A.13.3 Rear cross-members are to be full width and not just between chassis members. A.13.4 Range Rover and Discovery bumpers must be of original size and shape and have at least similar strength to those originally fitted. They must not be bent to gain any advantage and both bumpers shall be fitted in their original positions. Bumper sizes and shapes may vary with the model concerned. A.13.5 The front bumper on a Range Rover must not be less than 5'4" an= d the rear no less than 5'7". A.13.6 On a Discovery, the front bumper must not be less than 5'8" an= d the rear no less than 5'10". A.14 BATTERIES Wet batteries must be fitted with anti-spillage caps. All types= of battery must be separated from thedriver/passenger compartment by means = of a bulkhead or cover, must be securely fixed and if moved from the normal p= lace of fitment must be adequately covered to contain any spillage in the eve= nt of a roll over. Covers do not have to be of metal; plastic and wood are acceptable. If made of metal, check for proximity of terminals = and wiring. A.15 CARBURETTOR SPRINGS An additional spring shall be fitted directly to the throttle butterfly spindle or lever on each carburettor to close the throttle in the event of any throttle linkage failure. This rul= e applies, regardless of the number of springs originally fitted by the manufacturer. A.16 BRAKES A.16.1 A handbrake, operable by the driver whilst wearing a seat-belt, must be fitted. A.16.2 Fiddle brakes (a means of operating individual wheel brakes independently) are not allowed unless disabled to the satisfaction of the scrutineers A.16.3 Electronic Traction Control, ETC, (a form of automatic fiddle brakes) is allowable only where factory fitted as standard. A.17 AXLE DIFFERENTIALS Limited slip, torque-biased, locking or fixed axle differential= s are prohibited. Such a device fitted but disabled is not permitted. A.18 GEARBOXES A.18.1 It is permitted to interchange Land Rover and Range Rover gearb= oxes and their component parts. A.18.2 An operable reverse gear must be fitted. A.18.3 An overdrive may be fitted. A.19 RECOVERY POINTS Adequate front and rear recovery attachments must be provided f= or recovery purposes in all events. Bumpers, tie- down rings or Range Rover/Discovery "tow fittings" are not acceptable. I= f a tow-ball is fitted, welding alone is insufficient. A pair of Land Rover Ltd's chassis-shackles (not spring shackles) are recommended. A.20 STARTER An electrical starter in working order and operable from the drivers seat is mandatory for all vehicles. Section B - Standard Class Regulations B.1 ENGINE DESCRIPTION:- B.1.1 The engine shall be positioned at the location of the original engine. B.1.2 The original production standard cylinder head(s) and block sha= ll be used subject to paragraph B.1.3 below. B.1.3 Alternative engines or engine parts which may be interchanged a= re:- Original Acceptable replacement 1.6 and 2 litre Rover 60. 2.25 litre Rover 80. 2.6 litre Any Rover P4 range. R/Rover, Discovery and LWB V8 Any Rover Group or British Leyla= nd V8 aluminium engine,regardless of capacity. B.1.4 Non-standard carburation is allowed subject to the original num= ber of carburettors fitted not being exceeded and original standard inlet manifolds are used. B.1.5 Petrol injection and forced induction petrol engines are prohib= ited except where factory fitted. B.1.6 The fitting of slide throttles and the inhibition of the firing= of one or more cylinders to gain advantage is prohibited. B.2 STEERING & AXLES B.2.1 Series I, II, & III steering boxes and axles may be interchange= d, points of attachment being strengthened where necessary. Interchanged steering gear parts must have a Land/Range Rover part number or equivalent cross reference. B.2.2 Power steering may be fitted to Ninety, One Ten, Range Rover an= d Discovery vehicles only. B.3 SUSPENSION B.3.1 Road springs shall be the same type as those fitted as standard= for the vehicle concerned. Leaf springs shall not have less than 5 leaves. In addition, the second leaf should wrap around= the eye. If the springs have been rebuilt, the leaves below the top two MUST be in proportional reducing steps to copy the originals. "Tin foil" or "Spacer" designs are not acceptable. 101" wheelbase Forward Control Land Rovers must have at least two leaves= on each spring. B.3.2 Coil assisted leaf springs (where the coil is separate from the shock-absorber/damper) will mean that the suspension system shall be deemed to be a coil-spring type and not a lea= f- spring type. B.3.3 The narrow springs on 80" Land Rovers may be replaced with wide= r springs as a alternative. B.4 BRAKES B.4.1 The handbrake must operate on the transmission only. B.4.2 Land Rover drum brakes may be interchanged with other Land Rove= r drum braking systems. B.4.3 Land/Range Rover disc brakes may be interchanged with other Land/Range Rover disc braking systems. B.4.4 All Ninety/90 and One Ten/110 models, of whatever age, may use = four wheel disc brakes. Section C - Special Class Regulations C.1 STEERING C.1.1 Power steering may be fitted. C.1.2 Steering gear parts may be interchanged with those fitted to La= nd Rovers, Range Rovers, Discoveries or P5 model Rover cars, points of attachment being strengthened where necessary. C.2 ENGINES C.2.1 Any Rover engines (and others with Rover part numbers) will be eligible. C.2.2 Non-standard carburation and manifolds are allowed. C.2.3 Engine location and orientation is free. The forward facing pa= rt of any engine block (the main cast structure and not ancillary equipment/bolted on parts) shall be forward of the midpoin= t of the wheelbase of the vehicle. C.2.4 The following are prohibited:- Forced induction petrol engines; petrol injection; slide throttles; the inhibition of the firing of one or more cylinders to gain advantage. C.3 TRANSMISSION The transmission type and its location are free, provided the vehicle is fitted with parts that have Rover part numbers or equivalent cross references. C.4 SUSPENSION & AXLES C.4.1 Road springs and axle types are free (provided they have Rover = part numbers or equivalent cross references). C.4.2 Independent suspension is not permitted. C.5 BRAKES Braking type is free. Bias braking (front to rear) is permitted= but the ability to alter the settings from the driver/passenger compartment, or whilst the vehicle is being driven, is prohibited. C.6 CHASSIS The chassis used shall be either modified from an original Land Rover chassis or be of a Land Rover pattern. Section D - General Supplementary Regulations D.1 ENTRIES It is recommended that the minimum entry figure for each class = is kept to a reasonable size, say 5, and if this is not possible then consideration must be given to a reduction in the numb= er of awards in that class before deciding to amalgamate classes. In the event that amalgamation is decided upon, then this shoul= d be carried out as defined in the relevant sections. D.2 SMOKING No smoking by vehicle occupants while competing. D.3 MEMBERSHIP Current membership card of an ARC member club and RAC competiti= on licence, when required, to be shown at signing on. D.4 INTERCHANGE OF PASSENGERS D.4.1 A passenger/navigator may accompany only one driver. D.4.2 A driver may not act as a passenger/navigator for another drive= r. D.5 WHEELS AND TYRES D.5.1 Spare wheels and tyres need not be carried by CCVT vehicles. D.5.2 Babcross, Canonica or similar open block tyres may not be used. D.6 TOWING POINTS Towing points need not be painted in a contrasting colour. D.7 GENERAL D.7.1 Vehicles may be of a commercial type. D.7.2 Only RTV trials vehicles need to be registered and taxed. D.7.3 Only RTV trials vehicles must comply with all statutory regulat= ions as to construction and use and lighting. Section E - Road Taxed Vehicle Trial Supplementary Regulations E.1 BODYWORK E.1.1 All vehicles must have one of the following:- E.1.1.1 Windscreen raised, full set of hood sticks and tilt in place, firmly secured to the bodywork. E.1.1.2 The whole of the manufacturer's hardtop or truck cab with all fastenings secured and all glass in position. E.1.2 Hard tops, truck cabs, tilts and door tops must be in place. Th= e rear flap on a tilt may be open. E.2 DOCUMENTATION E.2.1 All entrants must produce a current Department of Transport Veh= icle Test Certificate (generally known as the MOT), where required by law and Vehicle Excise Licence (Tax disc) or equivalen= t MoD documentation relating to the vehicle being entered. E.2.2 Vehicles cannot be entered on trade plates. E.3 TYRES E.3.1 Vehicles must be entered on their normal road tyres, which must= be UK road legal for the vehicle on which they are fitted. Vehicles must be entered on their normal road tyres (i.e. those= on which they arrived at the event). E.3.2 Range Rovers and Discoveries must use radial tyres. E.3.3 Minimum tyre pressure to be 22 psi. E.4 SEAT BELTS Vehicles must have a minimum of lap strap seat belts fitted and worn by both driver and passenger. This is to apply even if the vehicle does not require a seat belt for use on the pu= blic road. E.5 PASSENGERS One passenger/navigator only, over the age of 14 years, allowed= per vehicle. E.6 SHUNTS Vehicles over 95" wheelbase are allowed one reverse (shunt) per section which can be taken at the driver's discretion after receiving marshal's consent but BEFORE coming to an involuntary halt. E.7 WHEELS Vehicles may use aluminium wheels. E.8 FIRE EXTINGUISHER It is recommended that all competing vehicles carry a fire extinguisher, minimum of 1.5kg BCF/Halon or BTM or equivalent weight of FM100. E.9 AMALGAMATIONS The basis upon which amalgamations of classes is carried out wi= ll be at the discretion of the organising club (See also D.1). Amalgamations will be based upon a vehicle's size (See also D.1= ). Section F - Cross Country Vehicle Trial Supp. Regulations F.1 ROLL-OVER PROTECTION All vehicles must be fitted with an ARC approved roll-bar or ro= ll- cage. F.2 SEAT BELTS Minimum of a lap-belt to be worn by all occupants whilst on a section. F.3 PASSENGERS One passenger/navigator only, over the age of 14 years, allowed= per vehicle. F.4 TYRE PRESSURES Minimum tyre pressure is 12 psi. F.5 SHUNTS Vehicles over 95" wheelbase are allowed one reverse (shunt) per section which can be taken at the driver's discretion after receiving marshal's consent but BEFORE coming to an involuntary halt. F.6 FIRE EXTINGUISHER All competing vehicles must carry a fire extinguisher, minimum = of 1.5kg BCF/Halon or BTM or equivalent weight of FM100. F.7 AMALGAMATIONS The basis upon which amalgamations of classes is carried out wi= ll be at the discretion of the organising club (See also D.1). Amalgamations will be based upon a vehicle's size (See also D.1= ). Section G - Competitive Safari Supplementary Regulations G.1 ROLL-OVER PROTECTION All vehicles must be fitted with an ARC approved roll-cage. G.2 SEAT BELTS A minimum of a three-point fixing seat belt with two shoulder straps and one abdominal strap to be worn by all occupants. G.3 TYRE PRESSURES Minimum tyre pressure to be 18 psi. G.4 FIRE EXTINGUISHER Approved fire extinguisher(s) to be carried of 2.5kg minimum to= tal capacity containing either BCF/Halon or BTM in a maximum of two extinguishers operable from the driver's seat. G.5 CRASH HELMETS All occupants shall wear, properly positioned and fastened, a c= rash helmet bearing a current approval mark issued by the RACMSA G.6 ELECTRICAL ISOLATION G.6.1 A circuit breaker must be fitted in order to isolate all electr= ical circuits in the event of an accident. G.6.2 It must be fully accessible from both inside and outside the vehicle and be operable from the driver's seat. G.6.3 On saloons, the triggering system shall be to the front of the windscreen or behind the rear window and on open cars be on the lower main hoop of the roll-over bar. The location to be identified by a red spark on a white-edged blue triangle. G.7 FACE PROTECTION The windscreen shall be raised or, if lowered or removed, a pai= r of close fitting goggles or visor shall be worn. G.8 PASSENGERS One passenger/navigator only, over the age of 16 years, allowed= per vehicle. G.9 AMALGAMATIONS G.9.1 Minimum entry size for any class to be three. G.9.2 Amalgamations will be based on the vehicle's suspension type an= d then the vehicle's engine size. G.10 MUD FLAPS G.10.1 Mud flaps must be fitted behind the rear wheels. G.10.2 The mud flap must not be narrower than the width of the rear wh= eel or tyre, whichever is wider. The lower edge of the mud flap must be no more than 6" from the ground. G.10.3 The centre-line of the wheel must be in line with the centre-li= ne of the flap. Section H - Timed Trial Supplementary Regulations H.1 ROLL-OVER PROTECTION All vehicles must be fitted with an ARC approved roll-cage. H.2 SEAT BELTS Minimum of a lap-belt to be worn by all occupants whilst on a section. H.3 PASSENGERS One passenger/navigator only, over the age of 16 years, allowed= per vehicle. H.4 TYRE PRESSURES Minimum tyre pressure to be 12 psi. H.5 SHUNTS Vehicles over 95" wheelbase are allowed one reverse (shunt) per section which can be taken at the driver's discretion after receiving marshal's consent but BEFORE coming to an involuntary halt. H.6 CRASH HELMETS All occupants shall wear, properly positioned and fastened, a c= rash helmet bearing a current approval mark issued by the RACMSA H.7 AMALGAMATIONS The basis upon which amalgamations of classes is carried out wi= ll be at the discretion of the organising club (See also D.1). Amalgamations will be based upon a vehicle's size (See also D.1= ). Section I - Point to Point / Team Recovery Supp. Regs. I.1 ROLL-OVER PROTECTION All vehicles must be fitted with an ARC approved roll-cage. I.2 TYRE PRESSURES Minimum tyre pressure to be 18 psi on Point to Point, 12 psi on Team Recovery. I.3 PASSENGERS One passenger/navigator only, over the age of 16 years, allowed= per vehicle. I.4 CRASH HELMETS All occupants shall wear, properly positioned and fastened, a c= rash helmet bearing a current approval mark issued by the RACMSA. I.5 TOW ROPES I.5.1 Quick release mechanisms for tow ropes will not be allowed. I.5.2 Only fibre or nylon ropes may be used. I.5.3 Vehicles must not be connected at the start or finish. I.6 ELECTRICAL ISOLATION I.6.1 A circuit breaker must be fitted in order to isolate all electr= ical circuits in the event of an accident. I.6.2 It must be fully accessible from both inside and outside the vehicle and be operable from the driver's seat. I.6.3 On saloons, the triggering system shall be to the front of the windscreen or behind the rear window and on open cars be on the lower main hoop of the roll-over bar. The location to be identified by a red spark on a white-edged blue triangle. I.7 MESH SCREENS A full width wire mesh, 2" maximum of 10 gauge weld mesh to be securely fitted to protect the front and rear windscreens and the driver/passenger compartment. I.8 FIRE EXTINGUISHER Approved fire extinguisher(s) to be carried of 2.5kg minimum to= tal capacity containing either BCF/Halon or BTM in a maximum of two extinguishers operable from the driver's seat. I.9 SEAT BELTS In Point to Points a minimum of a 3 point fixing safety belt wi= th two shoulder straps and one abdominal strap to be worn by all occupants whilst the vehicle is in motion. I.10 ENTRIES Minimum entry for any class to be 3 teams. Section J - Winch Recovery Supplementary Regulations J.1 BRIEFING J.1.1 Details of the course and the manner in which the recovery obje= ct is to be moved will be given at the start. J.1.2 Each team will be allowed 2 attempts at the course. J.2 TIME ALLOWED J.2.1 Maximum time for completion and method of starting will be give= n at the start. J.2.2 Competitors will be allowed to examine the course prior to the start. J.3 PREPARATION J.3.1 All objects to be recovered shall have a good quality chain attached by the Clerk of the Course. J.3.2 If the object to be recovered is a a vehicle, then good quality chain is to be securely attached to the front and rear, all glass removed where possible. The steering wheel(s) may be loc= ked in any position and one or more wheels may be removed. J.4 EQUIPMENT J.4.1 All equipment, including cables, ropes, straps or webbing, shackles, blocks, hooks, ground anchors, winches, etc. and vehicles must be presented to the scrutineer prior to the event. J.4.2 Only equipment passed by the Scrutineer may be used. J.4.3 The organisers may supply certain equipment. J.5 PERSONAL PROTECTION It is strongly recommended that all members of the team wear protective clothing, i.e. overalls, gloves, eye protectors, and for competitors other than the winch operator, a crash helmet to RACMSA specifications. J.6 START & FINISH ARRANGEMENT J.6.1 There will be a maximum of 2 vehicles and 3 members to each tea= m. J.6.2 All team members must be correctly seated in the vehicle and al= l equipment to be used must be in or on the vehicle at the start and finish lines. J.7 TEAM CAPTAIN Each team will elect a captain who shall be responsible for kee= ping any scorecard(s) issued and represent the team to the Clerk of the Course. J.8 POSITIONING J.8.1 Once winch vehicle and anchor vehicle have manoeuvred into posi= tion they must remain stationary whilst winching. J.8.2 Natural anchorage points may be used but should be protected fr= om damage. J.9 SAFETY J.9.1 The Clerk of the Course will, at all times, observe the the eve= nt and may stop the team if he considers that the mode of recovery is or is likely to prove dangerous to officials, competitors, spectators or natural terrain. J.9.2 He may award penalty points should any gate or previously speci= fied natural object be touched by either object or team. J.10 AWARDS J.10.1 The team that completes the course in the shortest time with th= e least penalties will be classed as the winner. J.10.2 An award will be made to each member of the winning and placed teams. Section K - Gymkhana Supplementary Regulations K.1 GENERAL K.1.1 All vehicles entered must be of Rover manufacture. K.1.2 If a Land Rover, Range Rover or Discovery, it must comply with = a Trials class. Notes a) These rules supersede those in the 1994 ARC handbook. b) The rules in the RACMSA Yearbook (the "Blue Book") also apply. This document contains the ARC vehicle regulations as of Jan 1st 1995 If you need any further clarification, please contact any of the ARC scrutineers as listed below. Steve Kirby 081 894 3961 Garry Chick 0634 727440 Dennis Wright 0623 515393 Norman Whiteley 0484 603564 John Hewitson 021 553 1547 Mick Gillet 0902 884407 Dave Marsh 0503 240590 Harold Carman 0928 564388 Martyn Dransfield 0924 274587 -- From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Fri Mar 3 07:49:40 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 07:49:40 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: LRS For Sale >From this morning's Baltimore Sun: "Landrovers '65 109" LWB, 2-dr, ex-Brit. Army, 23K original, $7,200. '56 LWB Pickup. Runs Well. Very Rare. $6,400. 301-261-5675." Chris Stevens 1969 SIIA 88" SW BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland, USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From "Tom Rowe" Fri Mar 3 08:08:35 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 08:08:35 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: DAP Enterprises Greg Brown writes: >Also does anyone have any more info on the DAP Britsh Rovers situation? >I can not get ahold of Bruce and DAP has a message saying they are >relocating to Springfield, VT. I'd be interested in the info too. I've been dealing with Al since about '79 but have lost touch since out her in the flatland. I bought my lightweight from him--also my 4-203 Perkins--- and always had the best of service for parts . Better than any other. Of course they move to Springfield after I leave Brattleboro. Tom Rowe University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Dairy Research 1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Home:608-243-8660 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu From Mike Rooth Fri Mar 3 14:50:57 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 14:50:57 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Boys and Girls....and unpleasant tales.... Stephen, If you're happy enough with the rest of the engine at the price, and just want a head,you *could* try getting in touch with a firm in Leicester called Swinfield Cooper.When they rebuild an engine they fit a new head every time.I got a secondhand head for mine from there,cost me #100 cash.Depends of course whether the head is ex S11 or S111.I think the only difference is the location of the heater tap,at the back on the 11A and at the front on the 111,but check.Telephone no 0533 545657.BTW,my purchase was several years ago,so price may have gone up. An acquaintance of mine rebuilt his 11A diesel on an Arrow Services coil sprung chassis.He had some problems with them.They supplied the coiler axles and the thing failed its MOT.Steering swivels! I recently saw this vehicle on the road,towing his stock trailer with a maximum of two smallish (13.2h) ponies in it.It was well down by the stern.Didnt look happy at all.I've seen a standard 90 with a full sized horse trailer with two big hunters in and you couldnt tell if the springs were loaded or not.Its certainly not an option I'd take even if I *could* afford it.Doesnt appear to do the towing qualities a bit of good. Cheers Mike Rooth From Dixon Kenner Fri Mar 3 10:25:18 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 10:25:18 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Ads... Today's Toronto Globe and Mail has three full page ads in section C (Managing Stress) on the Land Rover. An accompaning article mentions the Toronto Area Rover Club and the Canadian Series One club and interviews list member Trevor Easton. From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Fri Mar 3 09:25:12 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 09:25:12 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Rover Web + Info help I got this message but it looks like it really should go to the list. Greg >-------------------- Returned message follows --------------------- >Received: from MAILQUEUE by WMCU1 (Mercury 1.13); Thu, 2 Mar 95 17:19:56 GMT [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)] >John wsrjmm@cf.ac.uk >John From Richard Jones Fri Mar 3 15:48:34 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 15:48:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Top Gear SE THOMAS writes: > They told us a story of someone who changed from his normal saloon to > a Rangie, and took the same tight corner at the same speed of 30 mph, > and he was *surprised* when it lost control! none Think the High Performance Driving Instructor they interviewed summed the problem up when he said someting to the effect, people jump into a Range Rover throw them into a tight corner, think they are out of control when they are not, and overcorrect ... Result - driver induced loss of control I was actually surprised at how little difference there was between the handling test results for the Range Rover and the S Class. Given that they layed a lot of the blame for the difference on the tyres, sounds like a Range Rover with the Avon tyres designed for the Bentley Turbo (forget the name) would have made a more interesting comparison than the Range Rover fitted with the anonymous handling kit? Rich -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk From Jim Lindsay Fri Mar 3 08:33:31 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 08:33:31 -0800 (PST) From: Jim Lindsay Subject: help help would like to subscribe to list From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Fri Mar 3 09:40:50 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 09:40:50 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: prices With the recent discusion of prices, here's an ad from the fri. sacramento bee: Range Rover County '91, mint, black, All opt., 18K mi $35000 369-6745 (that would be the 916 area code if you want to call) Cheaper than a $160,000 tail gate! Cheers, happy friday John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From Dixon Kenner Fri Mar 3 13:45:35 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 13:45:35 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: prices Yet another: 1994 Defender 90, 400km. on odometer has the fibreglass roof hardtop. $30,000 + PST, GST (price in Canadian Dollars) Chap bought it in Toronto, brought it to Ottawa whereupon his wife announced she didn't like it. It is being traded in on a Discovery. Should be available at Westboro Land Rover (Otto's) in the next day or so... Another: 1966? 109 pick-up with full hardtop. In very good shape $6,500. Call Doc Watson, Wingham, Ontario (519) 357-2148 From ScottFugate_Group1@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Fri Mar 3 13:10:41 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 13:10:41 EST From: ScottFugate_Group1@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Subject: Taylor's Quest I have been following the discourse on Taylor's prospective purchase with some interest. I, myself, bought my 1970 88 sight unseen (with some brokerage help from a business associate) in Central Florida. It had been setting in the original owner's yard for some time. I flew down on a Saturday and drove it back to Knoxville, Tennessee while my extremely pregnant wife waited at home. The rear dif was slinging oil, so my friend and I took the seal off his 88 (nice guy, Carl) so I could get it home. In downtown Jacksonville, the driver side door flew open, and I had to stop and tie it shut with a piece of rag. Nevertheless, by the time I got the beast home I was hooked with terminal Roveritus. You can't imagine my relief when my wife announced that she thought it looked "pretty neat". Before I bought mine, I had never driven a Land Rover, and had only seen three or four live and in person. I just thought it would be more unique than my Jeep CJ that was setting out behind the house. The pregnancy culminated a week later with the birth of my son, who is now three. I plan to keep the Land Rover long enough for he and his little brother to enjoy it. However you approach the purchase, buying a Rover can be a life changing experience. Anyway, If Taylor is really interested in gathering info on Rovers, he (and anyone else) should pop over to Helen, GA this weekend. A group of Rover owners are coming up from Atlanta, and others are coming in from East TN and Western NC. This is a non-off-road meet intended to give folks a chance to get out of the house and have a little fun and fellowship with like minded individuals. Hennesey LR of Atlanta is supposed to bring some new vehicles up, I think. The actual event is on Sunday the 5th, starting around 9:00 am at the Batesville, General Store in Batesville, GA. Most people coming in on Saturday will be staying at the Comfort Inn in Helen. Hope to see Taylor and everybody else there! From Jimmy Patrick Fri Mar 3 14:00:20 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 14:00:20 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: queen mabel Spenny said: >We might as well pick the bleeding >landrover homecoming queen. Mabel wants to be the Land Rover Homecoming Queen. jimmy -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From C Taylor Sutherland III Fri Mar 3 14:36:00 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 14:36:00 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: digest So what happened to the digest today? BTW, I think that if I don't get to drive one soon, I'm just going to have heart failure. That would, like, suck. Taylor From rmodica@east.pima.edu Fri Mar 03 12:48:33 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Mar 1995 12:48:33 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: Bermuda Triangle LRO delivery Dixon - My LRO must come by Bermuda Triangle Express. I knew those Pentium chips would take their toll somewhere. I suppose it's better on my LRO then on some space shuttle flight. The only dependable LRO is the Digest. Do you get LRW as well? My issues seem to come about the middle of the prior month. The March issue arrived on 2/16, the Feb issue on 1/11. After 20 years of LR ownership I have never heard the radiator support called the "breakfast". IRC makes sense (Thanks). Ben - Thanks for the directions. There indeed is the Union Jack on p.185 Just a matter of adjusting the scale of the search. Looks like a nice SIII. I was beginning to think I was daft. My Matchbox Fire Tender arrived yesterday. A nice piece of work, although the windows look a little strange. Rob Modica 1951 SI 80" Hardtop 16136629 Tucson AZ 1960 SII 109 Safari SW 164000620 1994 Disco 5spd formerly owned 1967 SIIA 88" 24420297B Anyone seen it? From abalser@salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) Fri Mar 3 10:04:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 10:04:33 AKS From: abalser@salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) Subject: vacuum leak? I have had a tough time tuning my ex-mil. Ser III 109 since last June, and I think it may have started as a result of a couple, fairly rough, overland trips (one to Prudhoe Bay, the other to McCarthy) that I took last May. For reasons that I will not explain here, as the logic is convoluted, though sound, I strongly suspect that the reason I can't get the popping out of the exhaust, that it's sucking more gas than it really ought to, and that the hydrocarbons are a bit high,(although within emissions spec), is due a vacuum leak caused by the incessant jarring on these two trips. Does anyone have an idea what piece of what component I should suspect first, assuming my hypothesis about jarring as the cause is correct. I wouldn't mind mucking around with it for a few hours normally, but it is still sort of chilly up here, (anywhere from -20F to 10F), and besides, I'm strapped for time as always. It's a 2.25 petrol, of course, with a zenith carb, ser III brake booster, and a! vacuum advance on the distributor but none of that funky pcv valve they put on some of the late north american ones I've seen. Anyone? -Andrew Balser From grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Fri Mar 3 12:05:34 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 12:05:34 PST From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: Warn Hub Parts -A week or so ago I posted a plea for a Warn hub part. I recieved a couple of replies , however due to an unfourtunate sequence of keystrokes ( no doubt caused by ZnO2 induced brain damage ) I managed to deleate my inbox before I was able to reply back. Please excuse me as I try this again. The part I'm looking for is the round plate you turn to set your hubs from "FREE" to "LOCK". Thanks, Gordon From UncleBrad@aol.com Fri Mar 3 15:22:03 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 15:22:03 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: 3 LRs for sale in CA In response to David Brown's request, I know of a few Land Rovers for sale here in CA that aren't being advertised; -109 pickup with new soft top. $8,500(?). It has been gone through and looks real nice. Looks military, but isn't really. Has clean Chevy 6 conversion. Steve Hill- 916-686-0715. -109 2-door hard top. $3,000-$5,000. Had been sitting a lon time in Berkely when these folks bought it. They did a lot of clean up work on it & got it going again. Has solid frame, but some surface rust from sitting around. Good upholstery. Body straight but boy, does it need paint. Stock 4cyl engine. Eric & Anne Mills- 510-827-1994. - 88 pickup. Series 2. $2,500-$3,500(?). Straight body & frame. Interior in good shape, but yellow. Needs paint. Engine runs strong. Needs some minor mechanical work. Scotty- 510-686-2255. From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Fri Mar 3 16:25:53 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 16:25:53 -0500 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Rover Extreme Another Rover on TV sighting: Last night while tuning in to the "regular time slot premiere" of Extreme I couldn't help but notice that the "aging mountain bike racer with something to prove" character was tooling about the mountains in a white Defender 90. I was especially heartened to note that during the course of the show he managed to *have a relationship with* the *attractive young lady* who was the reason I tuned in to begin with. (I was drawn to the show from her appearance in the "watch this after the Super Bowl" promo. Perhaps there's hope for me yet! ;-} Major inaccuracy in the story though. In the end this guy dumps the *ATL* without even bothering to say goodbye. Based on my exprience, no Rover owner I know would have dreamed of letting this one go... I have a suspicion we'll be seeing more Defenders on this show. If you tune in please remember I'm not recommending it for the plot or dialogue. Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Fri Mar 3 16:15:40 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 16:15:40 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Real investigation. Well, I guess I wanted to be REALLY damn educated about something I was going to keep for a long time. As for specific questions, I've run out of them. About library, my library here is huge, and the listings should tell me about anything having to do with lr's but sadly they don't otherwise, I would have borrowed every last one of them. I've gotten two books, and I may get one more. There is a guy coming down to see his g/f tomorrow (Sat.) and he is going to stop by my place to give me a ride in his 64 IIA. I'm looking forward to it. I spent all last saturday riding around in the mountains of NC looking for Harrells in Waynesville and found it. He had a really nice III but it was locked up so the only one I saw was a 109" (?) I PU. Nice but I like the III. There were a bunch of II's and IIa's but they were all in the junk yard in back and not on their best display. He did have an over supply of hardtops I might be able to buy if I ever decide to get one. I came back by Greenville, SC to the dealer and looked around at the II 88". It was in pretty bad shape, I don't even think it was driveable, so it too wasn't on its best show. I sat in it (with the crappy seats) and I liked it. Real seats would have been nice but I did like it. The III that was in NC behind a dirty glass window looked awesome. I can't wait to get in one that actually moves. I'm sure that as soon as I do, I will be too far down the path of temptation to turn back. So I'm sorry, but this was the best way to get a lot of real opinions and not just propaganda that I would get from a book. While all of these questions have been going on, I've been in touch with Leslie adding and trimming my list. She just gave me a price. No I'm not telling. :) I gave her what I think was my final request for what I wanted on it. She's going to itemize it to the best of her knowledge, and then I am probably going to buy it. So, guys, just give me a minute! I will suprise you yet! Taylor, always begging for knowledge. BTW, when I ask vague questions, I get vague answers but they are better than no answers at all. Thanks for putting up with me. And I'm sorry I didn't go the preferred route of buying a broken one and fixing it myself. If that is the norm, did people sign to buy from a dealer only after the dealer demolished it so that the buyer could have the satisfaction of putting it back together? What's wrong with wanting to get it right the first time? Nothing. And that's what I'm going to say next, nothing... -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From Dixon Kenner Fri Mar 3 16:39:34 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 16:39:34 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: LRO Special: Updates on List stuff Summary of survey thus far, a quick and dirty sort... Just the clubs, I'll get to the number of Land Rovers this evening or tomorrow. There are thirty-five clubs listed. (The network here is down, why else do this? :-)) The largest is the Land Rover Owners Association (NA) (21 members) Second place goes to the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers club (13 members) Third place to the Rover Owners of Virginia (6 members) Fourth place to the Bay State Rover Owners Accosiation (5 members) I note that some people didn't put down all multiple affiliations, so above totals will actually be higher. Clubs represented Number of members + 101 Forward Control Club and Register 1 + 4 Wheel Drive Club of Southern Africa 1 + A.R.C. 2 + BMWCCA 1 + Bay State Rover Owners Assocation (BSROA) 5 + Blue Ridge Land Rover 2 + Canadian Owner Of LandRovers {C.O.O.L.} 1 + Cheshire and Lancs 1 + Co-Founder of the Charlotte LRO Club 1 + Cumbria Rover Owners Club 1 + GLAMORGAN OFFROAD CLUB 1 + Land Rover Owners Assocation, North America 21 + Land Rover Owners Club of Gippsland 1 + Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria 2 + Land Rover Owners' Club if Hessen (Chairman) 1 + Land-Rover Register of South Australia 1 + Lea Valley Land Rover Owners Club 1 + Liverpool Land Rover Club 1 + NATAL LRO CLUB 1 + NLRK (Norsk Land-Rover Klubb) 2 + Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR) 13 + Pacific Coast Rover Club (PCRC) 4 + Pennine LRC 2 + Prairie Rovers 2 + Rover Owners Asso. of Virginia (ROAV) 6 + Range Rover Register 2 + Rover Landers of British Columbia 1 + Roverlanders 1 + Scottish Land Rover Owners Club 3 + Series I Club 2 + Series II Club 1 + Solihull Society 3 + Toronta Area Rover Club (TARC) 2 + Yankee Rover Club 3 + Yorkshire Rover Owners. 1 From Roger Sinasohn Fri Mar 3 13:53:39 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 13:53:39 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: re: Jeeps are Crap in the snow. > Landrovers typically are 1-2 inches worse for diff clearance than the > opposition. It is their weak point. Big diffs -> low clearance Bu LR's have offset diffs. This gives you a lot more room to let stuff pass under you. That is, instead of [==O==] you have [=O===]. Does the competition have this? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Fri Mar 3 13:53:35 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 13:53:35 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Dave Brown's notsoFAQ's Q. Do you have to turn the crank the opposite direction if you're south of the equator? A. No. The only modification needed for travel in the southern hemisphere is to fit the counter-plugs for the oil filler holes. These plugs screw in counter-clockwise, and are required to prevent the dreaded "coreolis" effect, which would cause normal plugs to unscrew themselves as you drive. Q. How do I rotate the taillight oil? A. Taillights don't require oil, of course. What they need immediately after purchase, or after deep wading, is a thick coating of dust and mud. This keeps the light inside the taillight assembly, where it is stored, allowing the unit to function virtually forever. This coating should never be washed off. It is a part of the unit, much like the aging of fine leather. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Kelly Minnick Fri Mar 3 13:55:44 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 13:55:44 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Misc RE:Misc Ramblings I have some misc. ramblings, so here goes: 1. Axle straps. My friends' CJ doesn't have them but should. He has broken numerous shocks and shock mounts off of his axle housing. Would not this be the same case for the Rovers? I have rebuilt my vehicle from the ground up. since I just had a bare frame with axles attached, the springs were painted in a position that left the vehicle *pumped* up. I could not attach the front shocks until everything was mounted and I jumped up and down on the frame many times. They now barely fit. Also, the LR axle straps will not go on. I will have to wait until the rear springs settle back down. This comment about the springs keeping the axles/shocks from extending too far is therefore not correct! I think you will bust shocks! 2. Does not the 101 FC have the springs mounted on top of the axles? Seems the axle housings could be modified to allow the springs on top of the housing. I'm not sure I would want to be that high, though. I would prefer extending the spring shackles so that I could go back to stock if I wanted... 3. Open diffs. Wish LR came with the option for air/vacuum locking diffs. These really are hard to drive with in the snow. If you ar going in a straight line, you are ok. Remember the posi you had in High school with the 400 hp chevy motor. Punch it turning a corner and you'd do a 360? Now picture this on ice or snow... Get the point? Open diffs can be forgiving on ice! Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From ritter mark c <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 03 95 Mar EST 1916 Date: 03 Mar 95 16:59:56 EST From: ritter mark c <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Disco Modifications I am trying to get information on modifications to my Discovery. In particular I am interested in mounting a winch ( not the $2100 rover winch), and using some steel wheels to run some more serious mud terrain tires. I am also interested in installing a locking rear diff. I would like to hear from some other Disco owners as to what works. Thanks. From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Fri Mar 3 17:28:47 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 17:28:47 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Reply to Sinasohn (at Fri, 3 Mar 1995 13:54:13 -0800) From "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Fri Mar 3 15:11:09 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 15:11:09 -0800 (PST) From: "walter c. swain (wcswain@wheel.ucdavis.edu)" Subject: LROs For Sale I called the fellow in northern California with the 1964 LR Pickup, 122K miles and more or less original, in running condition. He's asking $7,500: 'It's rare' I'd be interested in finding out how much he actually gets for it. = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Walter C. Swain | 1967 109 IIA Safari, petrol Davis Community Network | From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Fri Mar 3 20:11:18 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Mar 95 20:11:18 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello everyone: Really miss the net. Sandy keeps me up on a few things now and again. The conversion is finshed and just put the 3.9 diffs in this weekend and monday night. Drives like a dream. Pleanty of power on and for those of you who said marine cams were not suitable - off road too. I had a front driveshafy made and it provides pleanty of clearance at the starter (just above it). Sorry i meant to type driveshaft! anywat the final specs are: 125 ft lbs torque @ 2100 rpm, 177 ft lbs torque @ 3100 rpm and 140 hp. Very quiet with the 3.9 from a 65 and 66 P-5 auto. I have been told that 3.54 (Range Rover) diffs are too tall for the 3.0 liter. I may try it because i've had to give up the salisbury. My friend Ron just shipped me a 109 six cyl (1966). Just my luck. I wanted something for towing and sent my friend Ron some $$ to get a six with more power and he gets the six on the boat the same week that I finish mine! Anyone want a 109 six cyl 5 door! Rool bars are in the mill. Having five made 3 are spoken for! Anyone need one. Good Luck all ! Tread lightly and happy motoring R&D From JDolan2109@aol.com Sat Mar 4 00:39:13 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 00:39:13 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: 'Ye olde axe' The talk of how long Rovers last reminds me of the story of "My great-grandfathers axe" -- Its been a very good axe. We replaced 6 handles and 2 heads, but it is still the very best axe!! See ya' on the old road... Jim 61 88" SW / 1 Bbl weber, OD & 16's (econobox?) LR... The absolute best vehicle in the world at 5 hrs/mile!! From JDolan2109@aol.com Sat Mar 4 00:39:07 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 00:39:07 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: Re: Cold(?) Start up & weber Greg- Have the weber 1 Bbl here too. On cold mornings ( 0 F and below-like tomorrow) it will often 'sneeze' or make a sound like 'bloomp' and quit. Sounds are at the carb. Symptoms are very similar to yours. My plan of attack is to wait till warmer weather and then fix it. You might try that - it worked quite well for me last winter! Some thoughts: Is this a recent conversion? I ask this because the 'throw' of the weber is opposite to that of the Solex (I think thats the one I want). (I feel like the boy who cried "wolf". (RH & LH fans & cranks)). But there are two different coil springs (fig 3.23, #47 -Torsion spring for bell crank, pg 52, 1978 Haynes), one for each application. Clockwise and counterclockwise. Honest. If a hybrid linkage was created by using the wrong spring, and that wrong spring is gunked, those conditions and temperature could be a factor. If you have problems with the return, have a knowledgeable friend look at the linkage. I have the wrong spring on mine (and yes I did it, bless those little brown bottles!). I was over to visit Rich Ziegler and asked to borrow a 'grippy, bender type tool.' "Why?" was the response. I showed him where I wanted to rebend the end of the spring because it was about to exit its securing hole. "Well, thats the wrong spring..." Ok, forget the tool. Educuation never ends. Bonnet closes. Now, I have to find the box with linkage parts in it. Another thing you might check is the jet that is at the top on the valve cover side. I have found this blocked. Don't loose the O-ring. It will probably stay in, but..! I carefully cleaned it (jet) with a single wire from a wire brush and by blowing through it. Weber doesn't advise any reaming activity, but the wire was much smaller than the opening and I was careful and it worked. No vigorous activity! And don't swallow the damn thing!! You might also try closing the choke at night when you park it. Then for your cold start, open the choke a bit. See if this helps. I have a Volvo P1800 with a weber DGV on it and this works very well. There might be some evaporation activity at shut down, followed by a pressure lock at start up. Who knows? I doubt the problem is icing or improper atomisation in your clime. By the time you get the problem solved it might be warm enough that maybe it just went away. Does anyone know of a manual that covers the 1 Bbl Webers? The only book I have covers only the 'deuces.' (I think that's a Haynes as well. Its outside in a vehicle under snow...) See ya' on the old road... Jim 61 88" SW / 1Bbl weber, OD & 16's (econobox?) LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised From "John R. Benham" Sat Mar 4 09:54:38 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 09:54:38 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Rover angles - The Definitive Answer! Dear LRO's, To determine the `maximum angle of repose' for your Rover, take a photo of your Rover's front or rear profile on level ground. Then take the finished photo and put it on a white piece of paper and draw a pencil line along the bottom edge of the photo. Now start rotating the photo until your teenage kids and their friends start saying: "NO WAY - MAN!". Now mark the photo's edge again and measure the angle in degrees. Subtract 5 degrees from this measurement and you have your Rover's personalized `Maximun Angle of Repose'! Try it - it works! Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA From "Tom Rowe" Sat Mar 4 12:14:27 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 12:14:27 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: (Fwd) DAP Enterprises ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From JDolan2109@aol.com Sun Mar 5 08:27:39 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 08:27:39 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: 'Ye olde axe' The talk of how long Rovers last reminds me of the story of "My great-grandfathers axe" -- Its been a very good axe. We replaced 6 handles and 2 heads, but it is still the best axe!! See ya' on the old road... Jim 61 88" SW / 1 Bbl weber, OD & 16's (econobox?) LR... The absolute best vehicle in the world at 5 hrs/mile!! From JDolan2109@aol.com Sun Mar 5 08:28:03 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 08:28:03 -0500 From: JDolan2109@aol.com Subject: weber cold(?) start Tried to post this post this once, saw it in the directory, but didn't get it back in the digest. If you've seen it before, sorry for wasting bandwidth. Greg- Have the weber 1 Bbl here too. On cold mornings ( 0 F and below-like tomorrow) it will often 'sneeze' or make a sound like 'bloompfh' and quit. Sounds are at the carb. Symptoms are very similar to yours. My plan of attack is to wait till warmer weather and then fix it. You might try that - it worked quite well for me last winter! Some thoughts: Is this a recent conversion? I ask this because the 'throw' of the weber is opposite to that of the Solex (I think thats the one I want). (I feel like the boy who cried "wolf". (RH & LH fans & cranks)). But there are two different coil springs (fig 3.23, #47 -Torsion spring for bell crank, pg 52, 1978 Haynes), one for each application. Clockwise and counterclockwise. Honest. If a hybrid linkage was created by using the wrong spring, and that wrong spring is gunked, those conditions and temperature could be a factor. If you have problems with the return, have a knowledgeable friend look at the linkage. I have the wrong spring on mine (and yes I did it, bless those little brown bottles!). I was over to visit Rich Ziegler and asked to borrow a 'grippy, bender type tool.' "Why?" was the response. I showed him where I wanted to rebend the end of the spring because it was about to exit its securing hole. "Well, thats the wrong spring..." Ok, forget the tool. Educuation never ends. Bonnet closes. Now, I have to find the box with linkage parts in it. Another thing you might check is the jet that is at the top on the valve cover side. I have found this blocked. Don't loose the O-ring. It will probably stay in, but..! The jet is in a holder (the screwhead part; secured by very light press fit), and could come out, so work over a clean surface in case you have to look for things later... I carefully cleaned it (jet) with a single wire from a wire brush and by blowing through it. Weber doesn't advise any reaming activity, but the wire was much smaller than the opening and I was careful and it worked. No vigorous activity! And don't swallow the damn thing!! You might also try closing the choke at night when you park it. Then for your cold start, open the choke a bit. See if this helps. I have a Volvo P1800 with a weber DGV on it and this works very well. There might be some evaporation activity at shut down, followed by a pressure lock at start up. Who knows? I doubt the problem is icing or improper atomisation in your clime. By the time you get the problem solved it might be warm enough that maybe it just went away. Does anyone know of a manual that covers the 1 Bbl Webers? The only book I have covers only the 'deuces.' (I think that's a Haynes as well. Its outside in a vehicle under snow...) See ya' on the old road... Jim 61 88" HT / 1Bbl weber, OD & 16's (econobox?) LR...quite possibly one of the best machines yet devised From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Mar 5 10:13:16 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:13:16 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Overdrives All, Anyone recommend an overdrive unti for my SIII. I'm going back to the UK in a few weeks and considering buying one. Does anyone know if they are cheaper here or in the UK. Mark From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Mar 5 10:12:56 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:12:56 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Freewheeling hubs All, I read somewhere, (don't know where) that its possible to fit free wheeling hubs on both the front and REAR of a Land Rover. Anyone tried it or have any comments ? Mark From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Mar 5 10:13:07 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 95 10:13:07 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Beryl's first run..... Not this weekend All, Beryl's first run did'nt happen. Last weekend I took the manifolds off becuase the inlet and exhaust manifold bolt would not tighten down. This time I spripped a stud to the down pipe and no one in Keene had any. Although its sounds great I really don't wont to risk it. So now its next weekend. Mark From David John Place Sun Mar 5 13:17:06 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 13:17:06 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Freewheeling hubs Not a good idea to put them on front and back but, despite the neg. comments the last month, I still recommend them on the front. You need good ones like the older brass Warn type. I have used the Selectro and they are bad news because if the wheel isn't in just the right spot, you can't trip the levers over. In the Warn and others, there is a spring loaded scroll that pops in once you move the vehicle forward even if they didn't go in when you turned the face plate to lock. I find that steering is better and less noise is generated on highway driving with the hubs. Yes you do have to occasionally put them on to lube the front end and worst of all if you run one on and one off you are just asking for diff failure down the line, but common sense with them makes them worth the price. For the member trying to get a face plate for the old Warn, you can't get them anymore. I found one in Alberta and it isn't difficult to replace it. You will need an allan key and you will need a machine tread countersunk screw to attach it. Just any screw won't do. Use some Locktite or you can dimple the machine head the way the factory did it but don't just screw it in, it won't stay put. Graphite seems to be a better lube on these units because grease only attracts dust and soon you have an abrasive goo in there that doesn't do anything any good. If you can't get a proper plate, I used an old radio knob, a large one with a shaft down to the scroll till I found a proper plate and it worked not to badly for about a year, but it took a full year to find the right plate and it cost a good buck. Dave VE4PN From James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Sun Mar 5 14:47:20 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 14:47:20 -0500 (EST) From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Subject: lro getfile lro-digest faq.a getfile lro-digest faq.b getfile lro-digest faq.c getfile lro-digest faq.d getfile lro-digest faq.e getfile lro-digest aaa.readme index lro-digest From BobandSueB@aol.com Sun Mar 5 17:43:33 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 17:43:33 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Kelly Minnick's Ramblings Kelly wrote in misc rambling #l: .....I could not attach the front shocks until everything was mounted and I jumped up and down on the frame many times.... Also, the LR axel straps will not go on....... Suggest that you have vehicle sitting on level with the engine etc (normal load). First, loosen all the shackle bolts - then jump up and down on vehicle to settle things and re-tighten the bolts through the spring and frame bushings. You don't want the rubber bushings wound up (twisted) from being tightened while up too high (unloaded). This will shorten bushing life and give you a fun job replacing them! Bob Bernard From BobandSueB@aol.com Sun Mar 5 17:46:55 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 17:46:55 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Hello Sue and I just wanted to say hello. We are new to 'the net', but not new to Land Rover ownership. We currently own a '51 80 (long term rebuilding project-engine is a 4 Cyl Chevy with a Scotty adapter, trans & axel assemblies out of late IIA - a '70 we parted out), a '60 88 PU (also a rebuilding project - just purchased it with a Volvo engine that didn't run- removed Volvo and am rebuilding Land Rover IIA engine fur use in its place, dash was a solid metal panel-only gauge was 120 MPH Speedo from Volvo . Currently restoring dash/wiring. Our daily driver is a '65 88 with late IIA fenders/grille named 'Sherman' (as in tank). Sherman has a Safari roof, full inside roll cage, power steering, Over drive, two gas tanks (rear tank off CJ7), ARB rear diff, floor mounted am/fm cassette player between middle seat & gear shift, and 15" Norseman Radial tires for climbing rocks & riding on top the snow - which we have a lot of in the hills above us. Installation of the power steering allowed me to install a smaller steering wheel (15" diameter Mountney purchased from DAP - compared to a 17" stock LR steering wheel) which has added to the leg room. (Notice there's an awful lot of conversation about leg room in 88 vs 109's these days.) Engine is stock except for a Weber 2BBL and headers, 80 amp Delco Alternator to help with the 8000 LB Warn winch. I guess you say we're not purists. All modifications have been done by me (Bob - Sue doesn't work on them, just loves to drive them). We are long time members of LROA, NA. Member #54, and are currently the Membership/Treasurer of same. Cheers, Bob & Sue Bernard From Sanna@aol.com Mon Mar 6 09:44:36 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 09:44:36 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: No Subject getfile lro-digest AAA.Readme getfile uk-lro AAA.Readme From Sanna@aol.com Mon Mar 6 09:44:01 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 09:44:01 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: What Happened? Over the last few days my mail box has been nearly empty of Rover news. Even my posts to "land-rover-owner@team.net" have not appeared. Has there been a change in address? From Easton Trevor Mon Mar 06 12:34:00 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 95 12:34:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Ownership of Land Rovers This article was first written in regard to antique tractors by Roger Welch who lives out in Nebraska. However the similarity between collecting tractors and Volvos was too good to miss so his rules were borrowed and a few words were changed. Tom H. It was forwarded to me by a friend on the Swedish Brick Network and also applies to Land Rovers. RULES FOR COLLECTING LAND ROVERS RULE l-Collect only one variety of Land Rover, nothing but early SI's or SII , for example. When all your Land rovers are the same color and shape, it's harder if not impossible for anyone to figure out how many Land Rovers you actually have. RULE 2-Never line up your Land Rovers, ever! Nothing distresses a difficult spouse more than seeing twelve old Land Rovers lined up, looking for all the world like a pile of burning hundred dollar bills. Scatter the Land Rovers around, a couple behind the garage, one or two in the garage, another beside the garage, maybe a couple at a friends house, so that it is not possible for anyone (if you know who I mean) to see more than two or three from any one perspective. Your hobby will be less 'irritating' that way. RULE 3-For pretty much the same reason, don't number your Landies , give them names. You'd be surprised how much less trouble you will have if you talk about "Nige" rather than 2216122. RULE 4-Early in your collecting, buy an Land Rover you don't want. Then sell it as quickly as you can. Don't worry about making any money on the transaction, the main thing is to buy a Land Rover and get rid of it. Then you can say, "Yes my sweet, I do have six Land Rovers in the garage while our car is out in the weather. That doesn't mean I will always have six Land Rovers. Remember the one I got rid of? I'm thinking of selling another one any day now, so we can put our car in the garage". If you have a friend who collects Land Rovers make arrangements for him to drop off a Landie now and again. That way you can say, if anyone asks, that you bought it. Then have him haul it off again and say you sold it. With this system you establish your reputation for moderation. RULE 5-Pay for your Landies with cashier's checks,or postal money orders, or cash which leaves far less evidence than checks drawn on the family account. Once you have gotten possession of another Landie and paid for it, eat the stubs. carbon copes or receipts immediately. Such things have a way of becoming an embarrassment later, take it from me! (This also applies to parts purchases and shipping labels from the UK) RULE 6-Now and then buy a wreck for 'parts' even if you don't need the parts. In fact you might consider hauling a wreck or two on the same trailer or truck, whenever you haul home a good Landie. This is called 'liability averaging'. If your significant other says something about having enough money for yet another Landie, but not enough for a new refrigerator, point indignantly to the Landies on the trailer-the beautiful one, solid and in running condition for which you paid $1,500.00 and the rusted hulks you got for $50.00 each. Then huff, "Snookums, I got those for little more than $500.00 each and the one in the back is easily worth $2,000.00. That s a tidy profit of $400.00." See7 Doesn't that make you sound like an investment wizard? RULE 7-When things get critical. consider dragging home a Land Rover without transmission or rear wheels. If there's a complaint you say, "Landie? What Landie? That's not a Landie! That's only a front end, not even close to an Landie." Then a couple of weeks later bring home a rear end minus the radiator, engine and front wheels. "Landie? What Landie? That's no Landie, that's only a rear end, not even close to a Landie!" However, don t try this more than once every couple of years! RULE 8-Have a dealer or friend call you now and then when you're not at home, and tell your spouse, "Bob told me to keep an eve on the Land Rover going at the auction on Saturday but it sold for $15,000.00, and I know there s no way a financially cautious and responsible guy like Bob would pay that much, so I didn't even make a bid on it for him." Not only will this make you look really good. but the next time you buy a Landie say something like, "Luvi-bear, this beauty only cost me S1,000.00, which means we are $14.000.00 ahead of where we d have been, if I'd have gotten the one before. If I keep saving money like this, we'll be able to afford to go on that Caribbean cruise next winter." If you say it fast enough, it might just work! RULE 9-If your mate insults your work calling it "Mud Pile", laugh a lighthearted laugh, making it clear that Land Rovers are NOT to you what shoes were to Imelda Marcos. RULE l0-If your situation worsens to the point where your mate asks, "Who do you love more, me or your Land Rovers?" Whatever you do, don't ask for time to think it over! -end- From Charlie Wright Mon Mar 6 21:32:06 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 21:32:06 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Oil pressure sender? This should probably go to UK only, but I've already addressed it. The infamous oil sender has packed up on my IIa (an annual tradition) diesel again, and I've once again begun a quest for a real pressure guage. None of the basic aftermarket versions (for the XR3i/Golf GTI crowd) have an adpator that fits the odd sized take-off from the oil filter housing. Anyone know a compatible sender/guage unit from say a Sherpa van or similar? What fits? Does anyone do a little brass adaptor? I'm tired of buying the 'idiot light' version as a maintenance item. Any ideas/comments welcome Cheers, Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From Morgan Hannaford Mon Mar 6 13:42:43 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 13:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Another Rover 1st! I forgot who first posted the National Geographic Rover sitings, but I went and looked up the March, 1961 issue "We drove Darien Gap". This is a fabulous article, very timely in its prose. The article explains that the Darien Gap on the Pan-American Highway in Panama has been a barrier travel. Even pack animals are frequently freighted around the area. This article follows two vehicles that attempt to drive it for the first time: a Willy's truck and a blue Series II Land-Rover 88". The drivers of the Land-Rover are Richard Bevir, of Toronto, and Terence Whitfield of Australia. They drove all the way from Canada to meet up with this expedition, and in doing so became the first vehicle to drive from North America through to South America. The Jeep started in Panama. Makes me proud......... Ciao, Morgan From EvanD103@aol.com Mon Mar 6 17:35:30 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 17:35:30 -0500 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Re: Correction to "The List" Two minor corrections to my/my Land Rover entry in last weeks list. My Series III is a 1973, not a 1993. I live in Stone Mountain, Georgia, USA, not Charlotte,NC, USA. I suspect I'm responsible for the error in the year, but don't know how my home changed..... My Rovers resurection is on hold while the US Customs decides whether to release my parts or not. At first they wanted my Social Security Number, then they wanted to know what "Land Rover Spares" meant in American English. "Car Parts" seemed to satisfy them and FedEx says I should get my parts tomorrow. It's only been 18 days since they were shipped..... At least they didn't ask what the country of origin was as with Kelly's headliner and rear seat. Erik van Dyck '73 Ser 3 88" From "Mark Talbot" Mon Mar 6 15:30:45 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 15:30:45 PST From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Re: Overdrives.... You want one ???? All, I have struck a deal with Merseyside Land Rover in Liverpool England for new Fairey Overdrives for series Land Rovers. If we can get an order to purchase 10 then I can get a break on the price, to be arranged. The discount will be in the 20-25% range. Anyone interested ???? I'm not sure if we can deliver to the UK. Because of the VAT. However, if those in the UK want a peice of this I could always get delivery here then ship back ! Let me know ASAP, I need to know how many by friday. So bend the wife's arm. We should be looking in the $550-$600 price range. Mark From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Mar 06 23:37:32 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 1995 23:37:32 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: 109 for Sale I was driving around today and found a 109 in my area that I had never seen before.. Of course, I had to check it out. Turned out to be for sale. The details are: 1963 109 Station Wagon - Diesel - About 80,000 miles on the odometer. Fairey O/D, Warn F/W hubs. The truck is extremely clean underneath - the frame is black and smooth. Body is very straight although the paint is flaking off in a few places. The interior is very clean. The only things out of place that I could see (on a quick inspection) are the exhaust system is not correct (it exits out ahead of the rear wheel) and it's missing the rearmost seats. The owner lives in Scotia, NY but the truck is at his mother's house in Johnstown, NY. I spoke to the owner on the phone briefly. He has had the 109 for 4 or 5 years. It previously was in North Carolina and he has never driven it in the winter. (Judging from the condition of the frame, that sounds right.) Before he bought it, it had been repainted and the injector pump was rebuilt. Since he has owned it he has replaced the rear diff (still has the old one), rear axel half-shafts, fuel pump and generator. He says he has a brand new set of glow-plugs still in the boxes. The truck is currently licensed and insured and runs - by the looks of the soot on the snow by the exhaust pipe it was started up within the last two or three days. Asking price is $5,000. Call Dave Acker at (518) 377-9466 If someone wants more information, this truck is only 5 or 6 miles from my house. Let me know and I'll From William Caloccia Tue Mar 07 09:13:53 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 95 09:13:53 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Now kids, don't try this at home. Professional drivers on closed courses. Morgan Asks: (4) Does the ... off-road school teach how to do a reverse 180 sliding turn in a 109? No, but I know who does, much harder on pavement ('less it is wet). The maneuver is called a J-turn (with a brilliant sample in most any of the 'Smokey & the Bandit' films). It depends on the physics of the steering geometry, (and you motorcyclists and chopper fans should be intimate with the concepts), but basically, they're at 'rest' while going forward, and they aren't while in reverse. Thus, they want to be at rest... So at some rather large amount of speed reverse, you give the wheel a tug and be ready to change gears from reverse to forward (that's the part where you can really screw up, presuming you're doing this on a surface that isn't otherwise dangerous or has obstructions). As the steering wheels are at the rear, the front of the car swings about and then you've got to stop it and start going forward again. There is a little known driving school (BSR) just outside metropolitain Washington, (nudge, nudge) where they teach a variety of evasive manouvers and other little known defensive driver tatics (eg. checking for bombs [remember that Bronson movie], spotting bad guys, running roadblocks). Occasionally they have civilians subscribe. Costs, are of course, similar to other driving schools, security clearences are a plus, but not required. (See _Forbes_FYI_ from about 18 months ago.) I learned J-turns and how to lose control properly at skid school in NH, but it isn't a topic he usually teaches to the public. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover For some of my rover photos check out the RoverWeb: http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb/wc0295/pict0295.html From Russell Burns Tue Mar 7 7:25:29 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 7:25:29 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Overdrives.... You want one ???? I have heard that you can put a overdrive in a D-90. is there any truth to this.. Russ Burns 94 d-90 91 R-rover > All, > I have struck a deal with Merseyside Land Rover in Liverpool England for new [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > Let me know ASAP, I need to know how many by friday. So bend the wife's arm. > We should be looking in the $550-$600 price range. > Mark From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Mar 8 01:14:18 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 01:14:18 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Overdrives.... You want one ???? On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Russell Burns wrote: > I have heard that you can put a overdrive in a D-90. > is there any truth to this.. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > 94 d-90 > 91 R-rover Defenders has a centre diff and permanent 4x4. So the front axle is always "on". There's no point in fitting an OD. You might even trash the centre diff. sv/aurens From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Mar 8 01:28:51 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 01:28:51 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Overdrives.... [CORRECTION] I just posted a message "explaining" about OD's. My eyes read overdrive and my brain (what brain?) said freewheeling hubs. Stupid stupid stupid Well it's way past midnight here. Perhaps i should go and take a nap. Sorry, - i'll go and bang my head against the wall. sv/aurens From David John Place Tue Mar 7 18:28:31 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 18:28:31 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil pressure sender? In Canada Weather-tite makes a brass adapter and you should be able to get one at any UAP/NAPA store. I used this with a tube sender. A tip-put the nylon line inside a piece of rubber hose because the line comes off the front of the sender and it then has to curve back toward the fire wall. The bend with warm oil will pinch off and won't read. The rubber hose keeps the radius wide and keeps the tube open and also protected. Mine works great this way. Dave VE4PN From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Tue Mar 7 16:25:51 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 16:25:51 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Overdrives..... The facts All, (Those interested in the overdrives) here is the scoop...... I wanted an overdrive for beryl, I called Merseyside and asked for a price. I happen to mention the NET and the they told me get 10 we can do a deal. TYPE : Fairey overdrives. O/D Cost : 410 UK Pounds Shipping cost : 29 pounds !!!!!!!! thats a saving of over 50 pounds or $75 ! That is where the savings come in. Shipping is normally 80 pounds The only way to handle this will be the 10 of us fax in the order and mention we are all together, then you can quote your own Credit Card etc. I will call them and ask if we can ship to individual addresses or that they have to come to me. We may get away with two packages, one for east coast, one for west. Watch this space. Any one want to ship 4 overdirves around ?????????????? I HAVE 8 CONFIRMED, NEED TWO MORE. WATCH THIS SPACE. BTW. They (merseyside)are asking if there is anything else we could "Deal" on. Your suggesstions are welcome. Remember that we have to buy in bulk and would have to order 10 or more items to get a good deal. Mark From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Tue Mar 07 21:06:27 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 1995 21:06:27 -0600 (CST) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: April '95 Four Wheeler Magazine Don't remember anyone mentioning this yet... Check out the Readers' Rigs section on page 14 of the 4/95 edition of "Four Wheeler" magazineFrom azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Wed Mar 8 08:34:24 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 08:34:24 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Now kids, don't try this at home. Professional drivers on closed > turn in a 109? T he irony is that most folk can manage a forward 180, but not a backward 180. In a Landrover, because of the silly handbrake configuration, forward 180s are SERIOUSLY difficult, whereas backward 180s are not much harder than in an ordinary car. From William Caloccia Wed Mar 8 05:52:51 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 05:52:51 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Now kids, don't try this at home. Professional drivers on closed > because of the ... handbrake configuration, forward 180s are SERIOUSLY > difficult Ah, but Audi came up with the answer in their rallye cars -- the Fourth pedal. They installed a second break pedal in place of the dead pedal so that they could operate the brakes on the rear wheels only... saves taking your hands of the wheel for that parking break lever. -- vorsprungderteknik -- From Russell Burns Wed Mar 8 6:01:35 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 6:01:35 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Now kids, don't try this at home. Professional drivers on closed And I thought a forward 180 was a new landrover I didn`t know about... Russ > > (4) Does the ... off-road school teach how to do a reverse 180 sliding > > turn in a 109? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > SERIOUSLY difficult, whereas backward 180s are not much harder than in an > ordinary car. From labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Wed Mar 8 10:47:00 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 10:47:00 PST From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Subject: North America: Internet Petition All, I know we don't use this forum for politics but I feel this one effects use all. This is a FYI. Do what you want with it. Jason ----- Begin Included Message ----- apologies if you're already aware. the URL at the bottom has changed. it is now http://www.phantom.com/~slowdog - peter ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Simply put, a couple of senators have proposed a particularly heinous piece of legislation titled the "Communications Decency Act of 1995" (Senate Bill S. 314). Basically, the bill would subject all forms of electronic communication -- From public Internet postings to your most private email -- to government censorship. The effects of the bill onto the online industry would be devastating -- most colleges and private companies (AOL, Compuserve, etc.) would probably have to shut down or greatly restrict access, since they would be held criminally liable for the postings and email of private users. Obviously, this bill is designed to win votes for these senators among those who are fearful of the internet and aren't big fans of freedom of speech -- ie., those who are always trying to censor "pornography" and dirty books and such. Given the political climate in this country, this bill might just pass unless the computer community demonstrates its strength as a committed political force to be reckoned with. This, my friends, is why I have filled your mailbox with this very long message. A petition, to be sent to Congress, the President, and the media, has begun spreading through the Internet. It's easy to participate and be heard -- to sign it, you simply follow the instructions below -- which boil down to sending a quick email message to a certain address. That's all it takes to let your voice be heard. (You know, if the Internet makes democracy this accessible to the average citizen, is it any wonder Congress wants to censor it?) Finally, PLEASE forward this message to all your friends online. The more people sign the petition, the more the government will get the message to back off the online community. We've been doing fine without censorship until now -- let's show them we don't plan on allowing them to start now. If you value your freedoms -- from your right to publicly post a message on a worldwide forum to your right to receive private email without the government censoring it -- you need to take action NOW. It'll take fifteen minutes at the most, a small sacrifice considering the issues at hand. Remember, the age of fighting for liberty with muskets and shells is most likely over; the time has come where the keyboard and the phone line will prove mightier than the sword -- or the Senate, in this case. > Here's what you have to do to sign the petition: > send an e-mail message to: S314-petition@netcom.com [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > the Web at http://www.wookie.net/~slowdog or in the newsgroup > comp.org.eff.talk ----- End Included Message ----- From William Caloccia Thu Mar 09 06:44:40 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 06:44:40 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: SPECIAL NOTE: mail to lro@team.net should be working again... Bill... lro@team.net is working again -- to my surprise it was fixed saturday > Basically, the AAAReadme files on majordomo state to retrieve the files using > getfile list_name file_name > but then majordomo sends you a message saying "getfile" is not a valid > command. However, get list_name file_name > works fine. ooops! my being brain dead - I've updated all the references to be 'get' as they should be Sorry for the mis-information folks ! > RE uuencoded pictures.. I have access to a scanner and some interesting > photos from ABP, RN and ROAV events. Would it be possible to upload any? I don't have that much space available, and mail isn't the best way to get photos out - you might want to contact the men running [ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu or lloyd@cs.monash.edu.au] the WWW servers, as that would be a better place for photos: Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover For some of my rover photos check out: http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb/wc0295/pict0295.html From Carl Byrne Tue Mar 7 17:03:26 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 17:03:26 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Discovery -Diesel I ask again: Does anybody out there own a 95 spec Diesel Discovery? I have a few queries with mine that a fellow owner might be able to answer/confirm. Thanks in advance. Carl 1949 80" 1995 Discovery - 300 TDI Diesel Dr. Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Mon Mar 6 10:48:59 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 10:48:59 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Overdrive prices; hubs Mark, Regarding overdrive prices: Check British Pacific's price; seems to be the best in the colonies. Then, when you're in England, compare (including freight, duty, customs, etc.) and see if there's enough difference (if any) to justify the hassle of buying from England. Then let us know, please. This is a question that I'm sure many have pondered. You have your assignment, now get to work ;^9 By the way, did you get my message, the other day, about the Series III dash top? Thanks, Granville P.S. Oh, about hubs: After I wrote the above, I saw your question about hubs and DJP's reply. I disagree about not putting them on the rear. Just want to make sure that you have "bulletproof" ones that won't break on you, that you use modern ones that mount with the stock (short) drive plate bolts, and that you keep them tight. I had them on the rear of mine for quite a while (for towing it) but had the old-style Warns that mount with long bolts. Could not keep them tight (so they kept leaking and I gave up and took them off). If you do fit rear hubs (or for that matter, front ones) carry a stock drive plate or two (and necessary fixings) with you, in case of hub failure. I am also puzzled by DJP's other comments. I've never seen a Warn hub that was spring-loaded or a Selectro that wasn't. The only other spring-loaded ones I've ever seen were the Faireys. The ones he describes as Selectos sound like Dual-Matics (really nasty hubs). Unfortunately, neither the Faireys nor the Selectros (in that style) are still available for the Land-Rover. Oddly, the company that made the Selectros (Mile Marker) still makes that style (called the "Classic" I think) but not for the Land-Rover and still makes hubs for the Land-Rover but not that style. Go figure. And when Fairey was bought out by Superwinch, it seems that the first order of business was to quit making those lovely hubs (I know, some people had bad luck with them but I like them and think they are about the handsomest of all hubs). Now, having said all that, my feeling about using hubs on a Land-Rover is that unless you are going to tow or drive your Land-Rover really long distances on the highway, don't use hubs. I have had them on most of my Land-Rovers but usually leave them engaged. Nothing new here, seems to be the prevailing sentiment on this list. For the person looking for face-plates for old-style Warns: I believe I still have an extra set or almost a set (apart, the needles gone) of those old-style Warns. I am willing to part with them or with parts of them. If interested, let me know and we can figure out what you want and what's a fair price. Later, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Mar 8 18:07:35 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 18:07:35 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: RN winternewsletter As mentioned yesterday.....and as I saw for myself..... there they are! The Hess family, on the day of their maiden voyage, all decked out in California clothing (esp. "the kid"), and each in characteristic pose (positively!). Fun reading. And more to come... Also a good article on the Doormobile itself. New goodies?? Not a whole lot, but for you Disco-boyze there is an add for a bumper attachment that apparently can hold an 8000lb warn winch. Bolts right on. And.....yet another description of the fun and frolic had at this past fall's Mid Atlantic ROAV event.....the one Dixon, Nigel, and I wussed out on. Next time. A shot of Sandy Grice is in there....I had him pegged for an older fart but not so... (This stuff is all in the new RN winter newsletter, BTW) cheers all, rd/nige From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Wed Mar 08 09:58:32 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 09:58:32 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Range Rover Caveats By popular demand, I posted Stefan's excellent treatise on buying used Range Rovers last Friday. Unfortunately, my Internet gateway was not available then, and it got bounced. Posted again this Monday, it disappeared down a black hole in the ether. Third time's the charm, eh? From Kelly Minnick Wed Mar 8 23:36:10 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:36:10 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Overdrives RE: Overdrive Why would you need an overdrive in a D90? They already have a "5 spd" which has overdrive built in (I believe .77:1). Maybe I just don't understand. I'd love to have the LT77 or the new R380 (?) in my SIII. Please explain. Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Mon Mar 6 13:55:37 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 13:55:37 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: RN RE: Rovers North Is Rovers North phone (802) 879-0032? Kelly Minnick From Kelly Minnick Wed Mar 8 23:25:17 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 23:25:17 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Misc. RE: Misc I just have a couple of things to say; some questions and some comments: 1. I did in fact finally get my order out of the hands of Fed Ex. I would not call them "Express"! The window "sealant" they sent me for my fixed windows is this "Dum Dum" stuff. This is not sticky and has the consistency of my kids "Play-Dough". How does this stuff hold my windows in place or keep water out? I can't find the Butyl rubber here in flat form. One window place said I need to be using Latex rubber from a calk gun. Guess I will check it out... As far as the order went, Craddock raised their prices 3 to 5% from the price quote they gave me. In fact, the Firewall pad was quoted at 54 pounds and was sent at 116 pounds. Ouch! Still working on this one!!! 2. I have been at 45 DEGREES in my '64 SWB. (not on purpose) We were all coming back from a fun trip out 4-wheeling and I was the last one to cross this stream in the bottom of a gulley. Earlier we had built up an area so we could cross the stream since it had undercut the bank and could not be crossed without our "bridge". The three vehicles ahead of me had pretty much torn out the bridge. Having bald street "firestone" tires on the rear did not help either. As I crossed the stream and tried to manouver (sp) up the opposite bank, my rear end started to slide which pulled the whole right side of the vehicle into the undercut bank. There I was at an "Impossible" angle. Everyone was frightened/shocked and ran to my rescue. We hooked a tow strap over the top of the roof and attached it to some rocks to keep the vehicle from going over (since when I tried to get out of the vehicle, the left wheels started to lift!). I had to crawl under the vehicle and pull out some large boulders we had used to make our bridge. The right front axle was "high centered" and therefore would not allow me to back up. Did I mention that the engine was still running through all of this and oil gauge showed normal pressure? We did some measurements before I dug/backed out and came up with about 43 degrees! This is not recommended since I have very uneasy feelings of falling on my side anyhow in my LR. In my R Rover, the axles do all kinds of wierd articulations and the driver has no idea how strange the terrain is. I got all crossed up in that, went to get out and actually fell out! Anyhow enough on this, sorry... 3. Putting the window "locks" back in my SIII. Where do we get those very long 1/8" diameter closed end rivets? Or do people just use screws? Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris) Thu Mar 9 10:22:05 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 10:22:05 EST From: dmorris@med.unc.edu (Tony Morris) Subject: landrovers, Namibia A friend is going to Windhoek, Namibia and wants to rent a Landrover. Any suggestions? Thanks Tony Morris From "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Wed Mar 08 15:28:00 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 95 15:28:00 PST From: "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Subject: movies On the subject of Landies in movies, I don't recall anyone mentioning the film "wedlock" with old Rutger Haur (should there be an "e" in that somewhere ?), He is a prisoner at a work camp where they all wear collars that explode when anyone tries to escape (activated by the guards). He and an attractive female decide to make a break for it, they jam the signal and make their escape in a Landie. The guards are straight after them and it all leads to a decent offroad chase. Better not tell you what happens tho'. I think I'll finish by proposing a toast to those who can drive their Landie in a straight line !!!! Gareth 1956 ser1 86" 1974 R.R. (shortened) 1976 ser III. h/top 88" From "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Wed Mar 08 15:15:00 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 95 15:15:00 PST From: "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Subject: diff lock info Hello out there, Just a quick question to you yanks, anyone heard of a diff lock for the L.R. called something like "LOKRITE". Any details like price and some supplier who will ship to the UK. Also a price for ARB airlockers would be of interest. Anyone visiting south Wales can give me a shout for some mighty fine offroading. All replies to... g.seymour@sihe.ac.uk snail mail to... 2 Cae Mansel Lane, Gowerton, Swansea. SA4 3HW From "howard quigley" Thu Mar 9 08:55:52 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 08:55:52 PST From: "howard quigley" Subject: HELP! I Need Range Rover Parts HELP! On my last wheeling adventure a rock ate some parts on my 1992 Range Rover. What I am looking for is a used or rebuilt (ie inexpensive) power steering gear box, front valance, and the lights that are installed in the valance ( the driving lights ). If you have these parts and want to sell them (or you know where I might find them) please contact me at < howard@procom.com>. Please include how much $$$$$$ you want, which parts you have, and how best to contact you. Thanks, Howard howard@procom.com Howard Quigley Procom Technology 2181 Dupont Dr. Irvine, CA 92715 800-800-8600 X298 From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Thu Mar 9 03:55:51 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 03:55:51 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Help!!!!!!!!!! Are my postings making it to this group? I can't get my subscription accepted at the land rover list. I don't know if these postings are making it either. Would someone out there email me at and let me know. Thanks. Rick Crider Monroe NC From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Mar 9 09:15:01 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 09:15:01 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: What to do make instead... In Bill Leacock's message (maybe copied from Roger Sinasohn's) the following question is asked: >? if the french should make love instead of cars 1) how do I become a frenchman >? and 2) what should Yanks and Limeys amke instead of cars? Limeys should make small talk and Yanks should make haste. The French should actually cook and leave the love-making to the Italians. Lest you've all forgotten: Heaven is where: The chefs are all French The cops are all British The Mechanics are all German The lovers are all Italian And it's all run by the Swiss Hell is where: The chefs are all British The cops are all German The mechanics are all French The lovers are all Swiss And it's all run by the Italians. Oooo, I better duck... Granny From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Mon Mar 06 13:32:02 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Mar 1995 13:32:02 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Used RR caveats OK...you asked for it...here's Stefan's treatise on buying a used Rangie: (BTW, I posted this out Friday, but the internet gateway wasn't available then, so it got bounced back.) From "Lapa, Hank" Tue Mar 07 12:35:15 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 95 12:35:15 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Subject: Re[4]: Disco pricing Jim, The story from the local dealer is that the 10-day grace period is simply to *confirm* (to LRNA?) that a order was indeed placed before 01 March by providing copies of receipts, etc., presumably so that LRNA would allow the dealer to not take a hit on the $600. I guess that means if you ordered at the old MSRP, and your Disco doesn't come in by the 10th, either you or your dealer is out the 600 unless the confirmation exercise was complied with. I guess it promotes Exclusivity of the Marque -- well according to one recent posting, my Series car is more exclusive in the US than a Rolls-Royce, and I take comfort accordingly. (This is not a flame, spam, grenade, or insult to RR, Disco, or Def folks.) This just means I'll order the Disco a couple months later and pay a bit more. No use crying over spilled 90-weight. Hank From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Mar 08 19:35:35 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 1995 19:35:35 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: floormats for my 88 Someone said... > I cut new mats for my 88 from truck mud flaps which I found on the road. I ........snip..... > the gas pedal. Maybe for Christmas I'll get one of those nice one piece > jobs from RN. Nawww... Just look for one of those mud flaps that go completely across the back of the vehicle... :) Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Mar 05 23:46:22 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Mar 1995 23:46:22 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: 109 for sale.. I was driving around today and found a 109 in my area that I had never seen before.. Of course, I had to check it out. Turned out to be for sale. The details are: 1963 109 Station Wagon - Diesel - About 80,000 miles on the odometer. Fairey O/D, Warn F/W hubs. The truck is extremely clean underneath - the frame is black and smooth. Body is very straight although the paint is flaking off in a few places. The interior is very clean. The only things out of place that I could see (on a quick inspection) are the exhaust system is not correct (it exits out ahead of the rear wheel) and it's missing the rearmost seats. The owner lives in Scotia, NY but the truck is at his mother's house in Johnstown, NY. I spoke to the owner on the phone briefly. He has had the 109 for 4 or 5 years. It previously was in North Carolina and he has never driven it in the winter. (Judging from the condition of the frame, that sounds right.) Before he bought it, it had been repainted and the injector pump was rebuilt. Since he has owned it he has replaced the rear diff (still has the old one), rear axel half-shafts, fuel pump and generator. He says he has a brand new set of glow-plugs still in the boxes. The truck is currently licensed and insured and runs - by the looks of the soot on the snow by the exhaust pipe it was started up within the last two or three days. Asking price is $5,000. Call Dave Acker at (518) 377-9466 If someone wants more information, this truck is only 5 or 6 miles from my house. Let me know and I'll be glad to check it out a bit more thoroughly. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Mar 05 11:18:37 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Mar 1995 11:18:37 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Batesville, GA > QUICK! :) > Anybody who hasn't left for this thing yet, what's gonna be going on > there? none Taylor, I'm not going, but I can tell you without a doubt that there *will* be Land Rovers there.. You can crawl under them and inside them and someone will probably give you a ride in one. You can ask all kinds of questions, you can actually *see* Land Rovers! Shoot, if you hurry, they just *might* use your Blazer as a winch point! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "Tom Rowe" Thu Mar 9 12:43:52 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:43:52 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Delco man & U-joints William Leacock, I thought that was a might much on the hp draw. I just never bothered to check it out, which is unusual for me. My God! AM I becoming less of a skeptic as I age? BobandSue said they thought universal joints were $33.00 US. Who's paying that for them? Go to your neighborhood NAPA and get them for a lot less. AND if you want to take a chance, I even ordered some from J.C. Whitney (about $6.00) in Chicago and got Spicer, which last I heard is a good make, they were OE I think on a L/R I used to have. But I'd recommend your local parts store. Tom Rowe University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Dairy Research 1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Home:608-243-8660 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu From "Tom Rowe" Thu Mar 9 12:51:37 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:51:37 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Free L/R parts Don't get too excited. First, it's in Northern VA. What I have is a pretty much gutted '64 109. No upper body, engine or tranny. Basicaly what it has is engine compartment ancillary equipment, axle housings couple of jerry can brackets, I think, and pods to raise the marker lights to the top of the front wings when you have wing mounted jerry cans. Anyway, it's free for the hauling away. If you're interested e-mail me direct or call me at home on the weekend. No calls at work please, not that I expect to be flodded with interesed calls. Tom Rowe University of Wisconsin-Madison Center for Dairy Research 1605 Linden Dr., Madison, WI 53706 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 Home:608-243-8660 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Mar 9 11:28:12 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:28:12 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Defective Headgaskets? Fellow Net-Rovers: I am doing a valve job on my 1973 Series III 88" Land-Rover 2.25-liter petrol engine. I got my parts from British Pacific. Inasmuch as BP issued the "defective product warning" on the genuine parts head gasket, I assumed that Lawrence would supply the aftermarket gasket with the head kit. This morning I checked to see and found that the very genuine head gasket about which he had warned us was, in fact, in my kit. So I just called and spoke with Lawrence and asked, "What gives?" He said that he had contacted Land-Rover and asked about this gasket and was told that there is "nothing wrong with it." Presently, Lawrence is not counseling against using this gasket. He is, however, trying to get a technical statement from Land-Rover as to WHY this change was made and why it's O.K. or, indeed, presumably, preferred (figuring that the British would NEVER make a change just for the hell of it). So far, he has not received such documentation. A friend of mine had just done his head when I heard of this warning. He had gotten genuine parts from Rovers North and so assumes that he has fitted this same questionable genuine parts head gasket. He has had no indication of overheating. It occurs to me, however, that it does not necessarily follow that the coolant temperature would be higher. The concern is not the over-all coolant temperature but the lack of cooling in key locations... Has anyone else heard any more intelligence on this matter? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Dixon Kenner Tue Mar 7 10:46:37 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 10:46:37 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: LUCAS wins contract... For your colelctive amusement, LUCAS has just won a billion pound contract to supply Volkswagen with fuel injection components and some other stuff. There goes another marque into the Darkness From "John R. Benham" Tue Mar 7 08:42:10 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 08:42:10 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: MORE Nat. Geo. Rovers Dear LRO's, And we have some more Rovers spotted in the National Geographic Mazgazine: 1. February, 1987, p. 214: A very well equipped SIII at the base of Skogafoss Waterfalls, Iceland. This one is suitable for framing as suggested by our own LRO Roger Sinasohn. Thanks Roger! Also in that same article on pages 196-197, there are at least three + Land Rovers seen in the aerial photo of the Icelandic sheep drive. 2. April, 1993, p. 142: the `On Assignment' photo features a 110 with snorkel, bull guard, and sun roof in 4 feet of crocodile infested Grumeti River of Tansanis. The owner and Nat. Geo. photographer Mark Deeble is not looking pleased! 3. July, 1959, p. 145: After balooning and sailing across the Atlantic, our heros are welcomed the the streets of Bridgetown, Barbados with a hard top Landie following. Thanks to Brent Rosengrant of Bonners Ferry, Idaho for pointing out this elusive Rover. But for my money, the May, 1992 issue of PLAYBOY magazine has a nicely appointed 88 canvas top displayed on pages 118 and 119. Perhaps many of the LRO's missed this one due to the upstaging of the fine cargo the Rover is carrying! Definetely suitable for framing! Enjoy, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 SII 88 `Bwana Mobile' From "John R. Benham" Sun Mar 5 12:19:07 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 12:19:07 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: More Nat. Geo. Rovers Dear LRO's, And we have some more Rovers spotted in the National Geographic Magazine: 1. February, 1987, p. 214: A very well equipped SIII at the base of Skogafoss Waterfalls, Iceland. This one is suitable for framing as suggested by our own LRO Roger Sinasohn. Thanks Roger! Also in that same article on pages 196-197, there are at least three + Land Rovers seen in the air photo of the Icelandic sheep drive. 2. April, 1993, p. 142: the `On Assignment' photo features a 110 with snorkel, bull guard, and sun roof in 4 feet of crocodile infested Grumeti River of Tanzania. The owner and Nat. Geo. photographer Mark Deeble is not looking pleased! 3. July, 1959, p. 145: After balooning and sailing across the Atlantic, our heros are welcomed in the streets of Bridgetown, Barbados with a hard top Land Rover following. Thanks to Brent Rosengrant of Bonners Ferry, Idaho for pointing out this elusive Rover. But for my money, the May, 1992 issue of PLAYBOY magazine has a nicely appointed 88 canvas top displayed on pages 118 and 119. Perhaps many of the LRO's missed this one due to the upstaging of the fine cargo the Rover is carrying! Definetely suitable for framing!! Enjoy, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA John R. Benham - Editor N.3616 Dowdy Road `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA 99204 USA ______ |______\_____ 1968 88 IIA Marine Blue *--- [|_/-\____/-\_|} The `BWANA' Mobile *--- (O) (O) 509.747.0692 (H); 509.353.2700 (W); E-Mail: benham@wfoclan.usbm.gov From Sanna@aol.com Thu Mar 9 16:03:26 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 16:03:26 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: HELP! I Need Range Rover Parts C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Tue Mar 7 13:29:06 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 13:29:06 -0800 From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Subject: see my land rover (semi)live on the net the followng web page: http://evo.net/bridgecam.html is connected to a camera we set overlooking a place where we park adjacent to my building. my ser iii is resently in prime camera position. the image is updated every 4 minutes (and looks blasck at night...)... -jory From Russell Burns Thu Mar 9 8:03:24 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 8:03:24 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Overdrives I really have not given much thoughas to if I need one, I was just wondering if one would bolt on. According to my logic, why think about it if you can't do it anyway. The quick thought is that the od might improve MPG when crusing at 75 MPH. It also might come in handy when pulling a trailer. Hills always seem to fall inbetween gears when pulling a trailer. Russ Burns 91 R-rover 94 D-90 > RE: Overdrive > Why would you need an overdrive in a D90? They already have a "5 spd" which [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari > Ridgecrest, CA From Russell Burns Thu Mar 9 6:33:55 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 6:33:55 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 clanking While driving some of the unique roads in the Moab UT. area I noticed a lot of play in the D-90 drive train. While rock climbing I would get a load clanking sound from what seems to be the transfer case. Also when decending a steep hill in low-low I would get a grinding sound from the front drive train. Has any one on the net had their D-90 off road, and experienced any grinding, or clanking. I can imagine the fun I will have at the porshe audi dealer trying to explain this problem. The hardware store in moab also has those elusive canvas water bags. Thanks Russ burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 (This is a resend, as I don't believe my messages got out yesterday.) From Charlie Wright Sun Mar 5 19:01:18 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 19:01:18 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Oil pressure sender? This should probably go to UK only, but I've already addressed it. The infamous oil sender has packed up on my IIa (an annual tradition) diesel again, and I've once again begun a quest for a real pressure guage. None of the basic aftermarket versions (for the XR3i/Golf GTI crowd) have an adpator that fits the odd sized take-off from the oil filter housing. Anyone know a compatible sender/guage unit from say a Sherpa van or similar? What fits? Does anyone do a little brass adaptor? I'm tired of buying the 'idiot light' version as a maintenance item. Any ideas/comments welcome Cheers, Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From Russell Burns Wed Mar 8 7:10:46 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 95 7:10:46 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 clanks, and groans. As I was wandering around some of the more unique roads around Moab, I noticed that there was a lot of play in the D-90's drive train. Any time I was doing some rock climbing, I would get a clanking sound from the transfer case. I also would get a slight ratcheting sound from the front drive assembly, when decending a steep slope in low-low . Has any other D-90 owners experienced thes problems? I know when I take it to the porshe audi dealer, and tell them the problem only occurs when climbing over large rocks, or when decending a 40 degree slope they will look at my like I am from mars.. Watching "jeeps", and other various 4x4's in action it makes me realize the bargin of a land-rover. Also those elusive canvas water bags are available in the hardware store in moab UT. Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-Rover From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Thu Mar 9 14:56:46 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 14:56:46 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: Off for School I will be gone for two weeks for an army leadership school. But will be back end of March. When I get back I hope to be able to p[ass on more info regarding Camel Trophy and the international trials. LRNA should still have me on the media list. I hope more to come. Talk to all of you latter. Roy-Rovers in the Rockies Gawd! Soon to be an Army leader? From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Wed Mar 8 17:00:20 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 17:00:20 -0800 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: oracle questions from neophyte Retransmit: didn't seem to get out the first time... The bug is beginning to bite!!! I took the family to the local LR dealer a couple of times recently. We've currently got a 4d Saturn sedan with me, the wife, an 11 year old, a 9 year old and a 7 month year old. (All girls, including the wife :>)) It's rather funny (we laugh about it) to see us all tumble out of the car. It takes a minute or two, especially as we pick up all of the things that fall out with us. For those of you around Sacramento, you know the dealership as Huebacher which primarily sells Caddys. Upscale and snobbish from our few encounters. After exploring the Disco on display at length and then perusing the Classic and SE and finally convincing the droid to let us look at two Defenders set aside, I commented to the wife that she can have the Disco and I can have the Defender. We were both quite impressed although the two vehicles are quite different and we haven't really driven either. One of the things we try to consider in most of our purchases is the quality: we would rather hold off purchases or do without something else for a longer time and get the best quality most durable item we can. Seems the LRs fit the bill. I have tried to listen to this group and the US offroad list at length to get a feel for different capabilities as neither of us have done any significant offroading, but we feel that this is something that we would like to take up. We have an aluminum boat which we haul to various lakes using the Saturn. Needless to say, this is somewhat nervewracking. On the other hand, buying a LR might be considered overkill for such a task, but as with anything there are other reasons for all decisions. Any way, on to a few questions, if you please... Disco: The new 95 is quite sharp looking but seems to diverge in styling from previous years. It's almost to pretty to take offroad. Any of you 95 Disco owners gone off road yet? Or is the Disco considered more of a mall hopper (no offense intended)? Clearly, the suspension and all is meant to be used offroad, but the bodystyling and finish suggest something to "nice" to abuse. Thoughts?? I noticed in the mid seat, that the wheel well squeezes into the seating area quite a bit and was definitely not something to use as a rump cushion. In real life, does this crowd the sitters (remembering that we currently have two pre teens and a car seat)? In the back, if the jump seats are installed the one on the drivers side sits out while the opposite side is recessed. Any idea why? The jump seats don't lock down. Is this a real life problem when bouncing around the outback or even on the road? Have there been any problems with the sunroofs or heating/ac ducts/blowers in the mid or back sections? The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for. He suggested that the drive is full time 4 wheel drive which integrates the 4 wheel ABS and engine control to provide 4 wheel traction control even in 4lo. I presume this means the ultimate in 4 wheel drive (and exceeds limited slip yet doesn't have the problems of stress associated with locked up diffs, and totally different than AWD) because when any combination of wheels are slipping (less than 4) the ABS grabs those wheels and allows the non-slipping wheels to continue on driving. I also assume that the differentials are actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very little about 4Xs and drive systems :>) I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard? Needless to say, I have no desire to plop down large sums of money if I am having to work on them or they are in the shop. I expect more for my money. (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles). The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors and water heat exchangers (or are they just not needed: no repairs or welding requirements off the road???). It looks like there is lots of room under the chassis. On the other hand, it looks like most of the engine is easily accessible (plugs etc) and the major accessory components (ac, water pump, etc) are easy to get at. (the oil filter is quite accessible). Any insight on this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service droid for everything? Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with body shops not knowing what to do with al? Are there any extra expenses or expensive repairs/upkeep issues? ( Although relatively happy with the Topaz, I hate the tires (translation: tyres) because they are relatively expensive for the size: extra soft limited manufacturer. I was not prepared for that and they wear quickly). I was under the vehicle and it appeared that the clearence was about 10 inches (maybe by this time my eyes were just too big ;-). Later, I was doing some comparison shopping (the Isuzu if you must know) and their documentation suggests only 8.1 inches (vs the Isuzu 8.4 inches). What's the truth here? And is the 8.1 enough to clear most things or does the truck need to be go on larger tires? Do most folks leave their truck stock on things like suspension and lift? As I understand things, because of the 4 wheel coil suspension and the solid axles, the LR can handle most situations very well. Is this correct thinking? I had a concern that the shock strut support would get hung up on things rather easily. Any concerns valid here? Also the Isuzu comparison booklet suggested the Disco had skid plates but I didn't seen any (did I miss them)? (BTW, the Isuzu booklet compared the 95 Trooper LS with the Disco, while they compared their Trooper Limited with the Classic. The LS and Disco were similarly priced, while the Classic was about about 20K more than the Classic. But I considered this totally "bogus" since the Disco fully loaded was the equivalent or better in most important areas than the Limited while the Classic was a totally different vehicle. IMO, if they had done a valid comparison, they would have compared the Limited with the Disco. Period, forget the Classic and the LS. The 95 Limited is the equivalent to the 94 LS). I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description, sorry). This was exposed to the elements, and although it seems an excellent aticulation mechanism, it worries me that it would get damaged by a boulder and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the "ball" really help in the articulation? The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232 lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy??? Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I need to take it the LR dealership? What about theft and insurance? Is it more expensive, are they targets for theft? Any other pros and cons??? Defender: Pretty much the same for above. Are they the same drive system, suspension and ABS/traction control as the Disco? The droid, needless to say, wasn't volunteering anything either out of ignorance or nose angle. We were looked over when we spoke with him and he clearly determined that we weren't able to afford or be interested in the classic and SE and that we probably couldn't even afford the Disco or Defender. That's a great way to lose business. Does anybody know the 800 number for LRNA dealer relations? It seems that they may need better representation in the Sacramento area. Is the Defender any tougher or more capable than the Disco? The droid did indicate that the 94 Defender was the last year because LR was not going to fit airbags to it. Too bad: neat vehicle!!!! Any pros or cons about the Defender? (Dumb question: should I get both the Defender AND the Disco???) I read some recent posts that the new Defender was going to have an Aluminum hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last year (for the US I mean). Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get? Thanks and sorry for being so long winded, but you owners know the exciting feeling to anticipate such a purchase. Even now, I'm feeling all tingly and giddy..... -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Mon Mar 6 09:01:54 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 09:01:54 -0800 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: oracle questions from neophyte The bug is beginning to bite!!! I took the family to the local LR dealer a couple of times recently. We've currently got a 4d Saturn sedan with me, the wife, an 11 year old, a 9 year old and a 7 month year old. (All girls, including the wife :>)) It's rather funny (we laugh about it) to see us all tumble out of the car. It takes a minute or two, especially as we pick up all of the things that fall out with us. For those of you around Sacramento, you know the dealership as Huebacher which primarily sells Caddys. Upscale and snobbish from our few encounters. After exploring the Disco on display at length and then perusing the Classic and SE and finally convincing the droid to let us look at two Defenders set aside, I commented to the wife that she can have the Disco and I can have the Defender. We were both quite impressed although the two vehicles are quite different and we haven't really driven either. One of the things we try to consider in most of our purchases is the quality: we would rather hold off purchases or do without something else for a longer time and get the best quality most durable item we can. Seems the LRs fit the bill. I have tried to listen to this group and the US offroad list at length to get a feel for different capabilities as neither of us have done any significant offroading, but we feel that this is something that we would like to take up. We have an aluminum boat which we haul to various lakes using the Saturn. Needless to say, this is somewhat nervewracking. On the other hand, buying a LR might be considered overkill for such a task, but as with anything there are other reasons for all decisions. Any way, on to a few questions, if you please... Disco: The new 95 is quite sharp looking but seems to diverge in styling from previous years. It's almost to pretty to take offroad. Any of you 95 Disco owners gone off road yet? Or is the Disco considered more of a mall hopper (no offense intended)? Clearly, the suspension and all is meant to be used offroad, but the bodystyling and finish suggest something to "nice" to abuse. Thoughts?? I noticed in the mid seat, that the wheel well squeezes into the seating area quite a bit and was definitely not something to use as a rump cushion. In real life, does this crowd the sitters (remembering that we currently have two pre teens and a car seat)? In the back, if the jump seats are installed the one on the drivers side sits out while the opposite side is recessed. Any idea why? The jump seats don't lock down. Is this a real life problem when bouncing around the outback or even on the road? Have there been any problems with the sunroofs or heating/ac ducts/blowers in the mid or back sections? The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for. He suggested that the drive is full time 4 wheel drive which integrates the 4 wheel ABS and engine control to provide 4 wheel traction control even in 4lo. I presume this means the ultimate in 4 wheel drive (and exceeds limited slip yet doesn't have the problems of stress associated with locked up diffs, and totally different than AWD) because when any combination of wheels are slipping (less than 4) the ABS grabs those wheels and allows the non-slipping wheels to continue on driving. I also assume that the differentials are actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very little about 4Xs and drive systems :>) I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard? Needless to say, I have no desire to plop down large sums of money if I am having to work on them or they are in the shop. I expect more for my money. (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles). The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors and water heat exchangers (or are they just not needed: no repairs or welding requirements off the road???). It looks like there is lots of room under the chassis. On the other hand, it looks like most of the engine is easily accessible (plugs etc) and the major accessory components (ac, water pump, etc) are easy to get at. (the oil filter is quite accessible). Any insight on this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service droid for everything? Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with body shops not knowing what to do with al? Are there any extra expenses or expensive repairs/upkeep issues? ( Although relatively happy with the Topaz, I hate the tires (translation: tyres) because they are relatively expensive for the size: extra soft limited manufacturer. I was not prepared for that and they wear quickly). I was under the vehicle and it appeared that the clearence was about 10 inches (maybe by this time my eyes were just too big ;-). Later, I was doing some comparison shopping (the Isuzu if you must know) and their documentation suggests only 8.1 inches (vs the Isuzu 8.4 inches). What's the truth here? And is the 8.1 enough to clear most things or does the truck need to be go on larger tires? Do most folks leave their truck stock on things like suspension and lift? As I understand things, because of the 4 wheel coil suspension and the solid axles, the LR can handle most situations very well. Is this correct thinking? I had a concern that the shock strut support would get hung up on things rather easily. Any concerns valid here? Also the Isuzu comparison booklet suggested the Disco had skid plates but I didn't seen any (did I miss them)? (BTW, the Isuzu booklet compared the 95 Trooper LS with the Disco, while they compared their Trooper Limited with the Classic. The LS and Disco were similarly priced, while the Classic was about about 20K more than the Classic. But I considered this totally "bogus" since the Disco fully loaded was the equivalent or better in most important areas than the Limited while the Classic was a totally different vehicle. IMO, if they had done a valid comparison, they would have compared the Limited with the Disco. Period, forget the Classic and the LS. The 95 Limited is the equivalent to the 94 LS). I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description, sorry). This was exposed to the elements, and although it seems an excellent aticulation mechanism, it worries me that it would get damaged by a boulder and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the "ball" really help in the articulation? The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232 lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy??? Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I need to take it the LR dealership? What about theft and insurance? Is it more expensive, are they targets for theft? Any other pros and cons??? Defender: Pretty much the same for above. Are they the same drive system, suspension and ABS/traction control as the Disco? The droid, needless to say, wasn't volunteering anything either out of ignorance or nose angle. We were looked over when we spoke with him and he clearly determined that we weren't able to afford or be interested in the classic and SE and that we probably couldn't even afford the Disco or Defender. That's a great way to lose business. Does anybody know the 800 number for LRNA dealer relations? It seems that they may need better representation in the Sacramento area. Is the Defender any tougher or more capable than the Disco? The droid did indicate that the 94 Defender was the last year because LR was not going to fit airbags to it. Too bad: neat vehicle!!!! Any pros or cons about the Defender? (Dumb question: should I get both the Defender AND the Disco???) I read some recent posts that the new Defender was going to have an Aluminum hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last year (for the US I mean). Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get? Thanks and sorry for being so long winded, but you owners know the exciting feeling to anticipate such a purchase. Even now, I'm feeling all tingly and giddy..... -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Mar 8 11:19:07 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 11:19:07 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:D-90 Overdrives > On Tue, 7 Mar 1995, Russell Burns wrote: > > I have heard that you can put a overdrive in a D-90. > > is there any truth to this.. none Soren writes: > Defenders has a centre diff and permanent 4x4. So the front axle is always > "on". > There's no point in fitting an OD. You might even trash the centre diff. I'm not sure I see the relevance of the constant 4x4 to the overdrive question, unless of course you are thinking of an overdrive "a la" MG's toyota crowns and the like (mounted between the g/box output and the diff as a seperate 2sp g/box) There is/was an overdrive available for the 4sp LT95 gearbox as fitted to older rangies and early 110's. This may be the unit that Russ is refering to. Like the series car OD it fitted in place of the pto plate upstream of the transfer case. I doubt that there would be an OD for the later 5sp boxes but who knows! Anybody know anything about the LT95 OD's good,bad, noisy, long/short lived. Might be nice to fit to the stage 1 some day if they are any good. cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Solihul@aol.com Thu Mar 9 19:50:38 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 19:50:38 -0500 From: Solihul@aol.com Subject: Oil pressure guage sender I have a spare brass banjo fitting from a junk 2.25. I tapped the 'neck' end to 1/8 BSP and will install a more common sender from NAPA to operate the guage. I thought the engine's bottom end was going (25psi at top speed) before I realized the sender was bogus. It wasn't making rod noises, that was the tipoff. I'll let everyone know how well it works after next wkend. From Craig Murray Fri Mar 10 12:30:29 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 12:30:29 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: oracle questions from neophyte > The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was > pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the > slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very > little about 4Xs and drive systems :>) To my knowledge, traction control is only available on the Range Rover, but it does work how you describe, but it cannot be used for long, as it will shut off if the brakes start to heat up. > I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems > attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many > vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles). Lucas electric aren't all that bad, it is just that people with series Land Rovers have electrical systems that are probably at least 20 years old! > The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What > have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service > droid for everything? Cannot answer this one, as there is plenty of room in the engine bay of my Series 1 > Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with > body shops not knowing what to do with al? > and water heat exchangers (or are they just not needed: no repairs or welding When aluminium is bent, it stretches, so it is a bit hard to panel beat, also there is an art to welding aluminium, as it does not change colour with heat, it just turns in to a puddle. > I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel > is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the > "ball" really help in the articulation? The only ball I can think of is for the steering on the front axle, and has nothing to do with suspension. If you are really worried about them tho I think you can buy gaitors for them. > The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity > as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling > that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232 > lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy??? > I presume this means the ultimate in 4 wheel drive (and exceeds limited slip The series 1 with a 1.6 4 cylinder was rated at 2 tons cross country!!!! > Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of > vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard > things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I > need to take it the LR dealership? Wheel bearings do not need packing with grease, as the they are fed oil from the diffs. > Are they the same drive system, suspension and ABS/traction control as the > Disco? The droid, needless to say, wasn't volunteering anything either out of [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > number for LRNA dealer relations? It seems that they may need better > representation in the Sacramento area. The drive trains are all pretty much the same I think, except for the Range Rover, which has Electronic Air Suspension and traction control. > Is the Defender any tougher or more capable than the Disco? The droid did > indicate that the 94 Defender was the last year because LR was not going to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last > year (for the US I mean). The defender is meant as a work horse, you know hose out interior and that sort of stuff, the chassies on both vehicles I would say are just as strong, as well as drive train components. > Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be > appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > -- > Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 A word of advice. If you do want to do serious off roading, I would buy a Defender, as some one in the LROC of Victoria I know, bought a Disco, and regrets it now! He is having a lockright fitted to the rear, 7.00 SAT's and a safari snorkle. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From Sanna@aol.com Thu Mar 9 20:34:18 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 20:34:18 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: HELP! I Need Range Rover Parts Any time I was doing some rock climbing, I would get a clanking sound > from the transfer case. I also would get a slight ratcheting sound from > the front drive assembly, when decending a steep slope in low-low . Just to help clarify things, was the centre diff locked ?? If it wasnt then the noises are probably complaints from it as wheels spin and grip. If I dont read the ground well and neglect to lock the centre diff the stage 1 can sound like a jack-hammer as a wheel spins and grips. Mind you I "know" that my centre diff is 3 parts shot. If it was.. sorry cant help better let a D-90 driver try to figure it out. cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Craig Murray Tue Mar 7 9:06:50 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 9:06:50 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Ltd.slip ? > Call me dumb: but "why" wouldn't you want limited slip differentials on a > 4wd-system, such as a Disco or RR (full-time 4wd/viscous coupling)? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > Network Operations Manager > Univ. of Calif. Santa Barbara If you are talking about a limited slip in the back diff, you used to be able to get one as an optional extra back in the sixties, but I don't think they sold many. I know someone how had one temporarily in his IIA, but he did not like it as it chopped his paddocks up too much. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Craig Murray Tue Mar 7 9:16:37 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 95 9:16:37 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Misc > > > RE:Misc Ramblings > > > I have some misc. ramblings, so here goes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)] > Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari > Ridgecrest, CA (USA) I did not say that the original shock absorbers were the best ones to have, you have too look around, for example, my 86" has 88" diesel shock absorbers on the rear, and 109" shock absorbers on the front, so that the shockers run out of travel when the springs do. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From Craig Murray Mon Mar 6 12:46:32 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 12:46:32 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Misc > RE:Misc Ramblings > I have some misc. ramblings, so here goes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > have to wait until the rear springs settle back down. This comment about the > springs keeping the axles/shocks from extending too far is therefore not > correct! I think you will bust shocks! If you have the correct shockers, the springs will run out of travel just as the shocks run out of travel. My brother was told to put 110" rear shockers on the back of his 109" as it would give it more suspension travel! Besides I have never seen a broken shock mount an a Land Rover, and not many of them out here have axle straps! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Russell Burns Thu Mar 9 18:50:55 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 95 18:50:55 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: oracle questions from neophyte 101 question time. I own a D-90, and a 91 Range Rover (close to a disco) First either one is a great off road truck. Both will go any where you want to take them. > Retransmit: didn't seem to get out the first time... > The bug is beginning to bite!!! I took the family to the local LR dealer a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > a longer time and get the best quality most durable item we can. Seems the > LRs fit the bill. Three kids will rule out a D-90 as a pratical vehicle. > I have tried to listen to this group and the US offroad list at length to get > a feel for different capabilities as neither of us have done any significant [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > offroad, but the bodystyling and finish suggest something to "nice" to abuse. > Thoughts?? The disco is designed for off road work. There is ample ground clearence 8.1 in under the diff, 11.8 under the axle, and 14.4 under the frame. The axles have the most vertical travle in the industry 11" in the rear, and 8" in the front. The approach, breakover, and departure angles are great for a 7 passenger vehicle. The aluminum body does not rust when scratched. > I noticed in the mid seat, that the wheel well squeezes into the seating area > quite a bit and was definitely not something to use as a rump cushion. In > real life, does this crowd the sitters (remembering that we currently have > two pre teens and a car seat)? My parents survived a trip to the west coast from Mi. with a car seat in the middle of the range rover. The seat is the same layout, for that matter is is basicly the same vehicle, only the bodies vary. > In the back, if the jump seats are installed the one on the drivers side sits > out while the opposite side is recessed. Any idea why? The jump seats don't [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Have there been any problems with the sunroofs or heating/ac ducts/blowers in > the mid or back sections? My sunroof still functions 3 years 65K miles. lots of dirt, and dust. > The sales droid was much more familiar with the caddys on the lot and I was > pointing things out to him on the Disco which he didn't have any answers for. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > actually open diffs (less wear???) and the traction control manages the > slippage. Is any of this correct (by now, you have guessed that I know very > little about 4Xs and drive systems :>) The sale person is a little confused here. The disco has full time four wheel drive, with a locking center differental. The extreme wheel travel makes up for the open diffs in the front, and the rear. The traction control only comes on the Range Rovers. (last I looked) The brakes are the best I have ever had. ABS you can take it or leave it, but the power assist, and the 12 brake cylnders are the best. > I have heard many comments about the faults of the Lucas electrical systems > attached to these cars. Are the newer vehicles any better in this regard? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > changes, various electronic and front axle fixes only. With good care many > vehicles can last, and we want this vehicle to go many many years and miles). I have had a couple of electrical problems. One bad throttle pot on the Range Rover, and a bad fuel pump connecter on the D-90.(i think) Neither stranded the vehicle, they were just annoying. > The engine compartment seems rather full with little room for add ons. What > have the rest of you been doing for various addons such as air compressors [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > this? Are they easy to work on, or do they have to be taken into the service > droid for everything? I have done all the maintance on both of my vehicles. They are fairly straight forward, and easy to fix. > Any problems with galvanic corrosion, or aluminum denting? Any problems with > body shops not knowing what to do with al? I dented the rear fender on the Range Rover, backing up a pop-up camper at night. (I was tired, and thought a yellow porch light was the trailer light) When I got home I unbolted the fender, and pounded out the dent with a mallet. > Are there any extra expenses or expensive repairs/upkeep issues? ( Although > relatively happy with the Topaz, I hate the tires (translation: tyres) > because they are relatively expensive for the size: extra soft limited > manufacturer. I was not prepared for that and they wear quickly). > (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil I replace the Ranger Rover tires at 35K they would have gone another 10 or 15K. No alignment issues after 65K, and some serious offroading. > I was under the vehicle and it appeared that the clearence was about 10 > inches (maybe by this time my eyes were just too big ;-). Later, I was doing [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > forget the Classic and the LS. The 95 Limited is the equivalent to the 94 > LS). I had a chance to watch some jeeps, and isuzus in action in Utah (I also own a 88 isuzu trooper) Watching them perform off road make one realize the value of a land rover. As for skid plates, They are available, but I have never really seen the need. I drive slow, and am somewhat careful. I will drive over anything slowly. All the important junk is even, or above the frame making it hard to wack something. The front steering rod is vernable (sp), but if you wack it it can be field repaired. > I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel > is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the > "ball" really help in the articulation? This ball encloses the cv joint. I assume it is strong, but know that it will eventally rust and pit causing an oil leak. The CV joints are bathed in oil. > The Disco is rated with a Class III hitch and around 4500 lbs towing capacity > as I remember it. Is the engine and drive train capable of really hauling > that much especially up mountain roads? The engine is rated at 182 hp and 232 > lbs torque. Seems a little small for hauling something that heavy??? > (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil I pull a 3500 lbs trailer with my Range Rover. It could use a little more umph, but is does get the job done. 35 mph was the low speed on I70 out of denver. > Are the parts expensive or is the labor to put in parts? Is it the kind of > vehicle that you can take to most reputable repair shops for the standard > things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I > need to take it the LR dealership? > (I have a 84 Topaz with 160K miles and still going strong: lots of oil Parts are expensive, but good. Repair shops I know nothing about. > What about theft and insurance? Is it more expensive, are they targets for > theft? Any other pros and cons??? > things: wheel repacks, tranny work, accessory belt equipment, etc? Or do I The insurance for my Range Rover was less than the eagle talon I traded in. I think the lack of black market parts keeps the theft down. > Defender: > Pretty much the same for above. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > hardtop? True? If so, this suggests that the 94 isn't going to be the last > year (for the US I mean). I use my D-90 for a commuter vehicle. I drive 100 miles a day. The noise abatement takes some work. The ride is great, and the seating comfort is as good as anything else I have owned. The only drawback is the noise. If you like to camp, and are going to use it off road, it is the greatest think since sliced bread. It will cruise at 70-80mph all day, tackle the toughest roads, you can eat off the fenders, and you will get lots of stares, and questions. It will tow 3500 + pounds. (the d-90 is rated at 3500kg in the UK, and 3500lbs in the US.) and is fun to drive. > Any other points of view, comments, pros or cons would definitely be > appreciated. Are their any options which we should definitely avoid or get? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > -- > Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From "T.F. Mills" Thu Mar 9 11:53:42 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 11:53:42 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Heaven and hell and Canada Granville Pool writes: < Heaven is where: < The chefs are all French [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] < The mechanics are all French < The lovers are all Swiss < And it's all run by the Italians. And then there's Canada, which historically and geographically had a rare opportunity to create heaven on earth based on: British government French culture and American business... Instead they created hell on earth with: French government British business and American culture. How to make friends and alienate half a continent by, T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From "S. F. Yee" Wed Mar 8 00:30:01 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 00:30:01 -0800 (PST) From: "S. F. Yee" Subject: Land Rovers = Credibility? Hot on the trails (sic) of such fine media portrayals in "Tom Clancy's Op Centre" is my recent observation that the David Silver character on "Beverly Hills, 90210" (Brian Austin Green) drives a new black Defender 90. In the world of non-fiction, the Associated Press reported that Michael Jordan suddenly left the White Sox spring training camp "in his black Range Rover." It must be indeed a slow week on the list! From David John Place Thu Mar 9 10:30:16 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 10:30:16 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Overdrive prices; hubs Right you are. Those were the Dual Matic and like you I found then a real pain. I have to admit however that whenever I bought one of my eight Land Rovers they had always been beaten to death by the previous owner(s) so maybe these little thigs worked better when new but from a design standpoint I don't think so. My three attempts to ask this question using regular E-Mail have bounced this week so I am going to ask it here. Is 21" of Hg at idle on the 2 1/4 Petrol about ball park, and is CO2 OK in my MIG for welding on the Land Rover or do I have to go Argon or Argon/CO2 etc. Thanks Dave VE4PN From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Mar 09 20:20:36 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Mar 95 20:20:36 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: toys Have just seen latest release from Rocco in 1/87. It is a s3 109 sw towing a horse box trailer. retails locally for aboout 23 all in. next releases listed in the catalogue are #1343, 109 ser n/k sw "THW" in blue, looks like a siren on the hood. ohter coming is # 1721, 109 ser n/k with roof rack towing zodiak on trailer. WOULD ANYONE WHO WOULD BE INTERESTED IN RECEIVING TOY NEWS UPDATES PLEASE DROP ME YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS AND I WILL HOPE TO SEND OUT REGULAR UPDATES. rgds robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 09 95 Mar EST 1923 Date: 09 Mar 95 23:50:18 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Defender 90/110 Factory winch/bullbar Hi guys If you would be interested in a Defender 90/110 factory Land Rover PTO Capstan winch with (very cool) integrated bull bar. It will also fit any land rover with lights on the fender (SIII style) Currently on a Defender 110. Email me. Hmmm interesting messages about overdrives. Are these new or used units? I probably could have done better if it was a bulk order. We deal with Merseyside all the time. Although they are very convenient (for us anyhow) and have a lot of stock on hand, I would be very careful to detail EXACTLY what you want. Better yet, talk to Mike only. The other guys mess up orders because they don't know about Land Rovers. Anyway, I'm on my way outta NYC thank goodness. On my way to Boston/Northboro - any enthusiasts out that way? Cheers Leslie U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 "80/86/88/107/109' available hard/soft or truck cabs - just call" From Tom Stevenson Mon Mar 6 09:58:48 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 09:58:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Freewheeling hubs I have heard of fitting FWH to the rear axles; it produces fuel savings of 100% with all hubs disengaged but drastically reduces top speed to about 0 mph. I would think that parking on a hill without a scotch brake would be tricky as well. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Craig Murray Fri Mar 10 16:06:15 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 16:06:15 EST From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Defender 90/110 Factory winch/bullbar > Hi guys > If you would be interested in a Defender 90/110 factory Land Rover PTO [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Cheers > Leslie Are sure that it is a capstan winch and not just a normal PTO drum winch, as a capstan winch on the front is not driven from the PTO but from the crank shaft of the motor. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | My car is constipated, email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | It has not passed a | thing all day!! From David John Place Tue Mar 7 23:19:10 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 23:19:10 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: One last try I seem to be having mail problems when I use any lro@team.net addresses but here goes for a last try. For you welders out there, is CO2 OK in my MIG bottle for work on the Land Rover, or will I have to go full Argon? For you mechanics is 21" of Hg at idle spec for the 2 1/4 L Petrol? Dave VE4PN From David John Place Mon Mar 6 19:46:37 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 1995 19:46:37 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Manifold for small block Chev I seem to be having mail problems. What is the smallest manifold I can get for a small block Chev. I don't want it to stick out very far and if possible it should exit above the outlets not down as most cars do. My present one off the 79 Chevelle hits the frame. Dave VE4PN From David John Place Sun Mar 5 19:55:49 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 19:55:49 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Chev Manifold. The compartment in the Land Rover is quite narrow. Which small block Chev engine has the narrowest exhaust manifolds. Something like a Malibou with the manifold coming up might work, but I need the slimist profile I can find for my project. My problem is on the passenger side so even one manifold up and one down is acceptable. Dave VE4PN From David John Place Sat Mar 4 23:35:05 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Mar 1995 23:35:05 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Technical Question One last try. Hope my mail works now. A question for you mechanics out there and one for the welders in the pack. I am running 21" of Hg at idle on a rebuilt 2 1/4 L petrol. I that spec for this vehicle? Second, can I use CO2 in my Mig bottle for the Land Rover Body or do I need to go full Argon and Al wire or perhaps flux core Al? Do I just set the amperage at a good sizzle sound as usual, or is there an actual preferred setting for Burmabright of Dural? Dave VE4PN From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Fri Mar 10 00:51:07 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 00:51:07 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Capstan winch querry. I got the oportunity to put a stock Defender 110 capstan winch on the front of a III 88" How much can these puppies pull? Taylor...ever so close...really and truly I'm gonna go drive one Friday. :) -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Mar 10 16:28:59 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 16:28:59 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:Chev V8 conv. Dave writes: > The compartment in the Land Rover is quite narrow. Which small block > Chev engine has the narrowest exhaust manifolds. Something like a > Malibou with the manifold coming up might work, but I need the slimist > profile I can find for my project. My problem is on the passenger side so > even one manifold up and one down is acceptable. Dave VE4PN I dont know much about small block chevs, but unless you are committed to that route consider a ford Windsor V8 (260/289/302/351!). As I remember the V is narrower than most. I've seen one *really* neat Windsor + Auto in a IIa many years ago. It was just so tidy it was hard to believe that it wasnt a factory job. Just a thought -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From Sanna@aol.com Tue Mar 7 10:32:50 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 10:32:50 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Big Screen Rovers Well, here's another movie for you Roverphiles to check out. I caught bits & pieces of THE DOGS OF WAR with Cristopher Walken while surfing the TV last night. Old Landys everywhere, although the line "Your Jeep is waiting, sir" pops up from time to time. They must have corraled every Land Rover in Costa Rica when they shot this thing. From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Tue Mar 7 02:14:40 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 02:14:40 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Thanks / New Member Thanks to all who found me wandering around in the British car list and guided me through the golden gates of Land Roverdom. Brief Profile: Rick Crider, age 38, Monroe NC (near Charlotte) Long time Land Rover and Range Rover owner. Current British: '73 Series III 88" (one owner / mint!) and 1988 Range Rover (daily mule). Other obsessions: Alfa Romeos and Ham Radio. Correspondence welcome....especially nearby Rover owners. Thanks. rickcrider@aol.com From Pierce Reid 09 95 Mar EST 1912 Date: 09 Mar 95 12:10:25 EST From: Pierce Reid Subject: More Rovers in Living Daylights Watched the movie "The Living Daylights" last night and saw lots of Rovers -- more than any other Bond movie: Opening scene -- Series III military being driven flat-out across Gibralter ending in its' being driven off a cliff and exploding in mid-air after Bond parachutes out of it (Should this be a new Camel Trophy event?) Several Range Rovers outside a large English Manor house where they were debriefing a defector. One had a massive bull-bar. Another was part of an emergency response team. both were bronze-green SWB's. And a Defender 90 cobbled up to look Like a Russian GAZ jeep that chases a C-130 (cobbled to look like a Russian IL-27 transport) and gets dropped out the back before the plane crashes. I don't think I missed any this time. BTW... Where'd everyone go? The list is 1/4 the size as before. This can't be because Taylor stopped asking questions.... ;-) Cheers, R. P. Reid From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 08 95 Mar EST 1907 Date: 08 Mar 95 07:35:00 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: RR putting the heat on How consolating that a RR, too, is after all deep down a quirky Land Rover... Spent the whole weekend with first one, then three buddies breaking our heads why all of a sudden the beast ('87 RR EFi), after cold start and at -5 deg.C after only three minutes had the temp gauge all the way in the red and was hot like it had fever. My first 'aural' estimate (which was correct): The water pump. It was sizzling hot and making rattling grinding noises (which it shouldn't). Had someone bring a replacement pump from the workshop and pulled out the suspected culprit (entails taking off half a dozen other components like fan housing, viscous unit, steering pump, alternator etc. and sorting and numbering the bolts that hold the pump - it is affixed by 10 bolts with 5 different lengths and 3 different threads, and G-d help you if you mix up any of them on reassembly). Sure enough, the pump was shot, but that sort of damage none of us had ever seen before: The edges and surfaces of the rotating pump wheel looked like they had been coarsly sandblasted, all pitted and chipped, and the mating surface on the front engine cover had a circular depression that looked like a wash-out from swirling water. Makes me worry, because directly behind this depression in the already rather thin cover is the timing chain housing. Imagine water being forced with high pressure through a crack into the timing gears... Let's hope it ain't so (yet). Question to the list: Has anyone ever seen a water pump damage of this sort? Any speculations? After water pump replacement and refilling the cooling system we did a test run... same problem! We all agreed that this *could* only be the thermostat - and were right again. Pulled out the thermostat (relatively easy after you clear some of the ubiquitous EFi electric cablings out of the way), it had gook and particles on it and didn't open properly in hot water. Got a new thermostat with a lower rating (82 instead of the recommended 88), reassembled it and - still no improvement!! Ok, being systematic minds we decided to do a reverse check: Take out the thermostat and run the engine *without* thermostat. Did that - sure enough, the engine was cold even after having forced the beast up a prolonged incline in 4th gear. Had a hunch... after all this is Rover country... dropped the brand-new thermostat in boiling water - it was non-functional! Genuine part! Got another one from the rack, tested it *before* installing - this one worked, and we installed it. Did another test-run ... you guessed it: STILL HOT ! By now none of us was capable of normal conversation any more, and we were just swearing profanely and profusely and making rude gestures to the car and to one another. Someone defused the situation by pulling up a crate of beer and we began drinking - er, I mean philosophizing... like why we didn't just drive normal cars like Toyotas or BMW. The notion was ultimately dismissed with reasons like not going with the crowd, a man needing a challenge, and similiar BS. After a while when tempers had settled we made another tottering attempt at logic and arrived at the question what it was that makes a V8 EFi so much more troublesome than, say, a 4-cyl.: the electric components! And who makes the electrics? LUCAS!!! We simultaneously jumped to our feet, one tore out the instrument block and pulled out the temp meter ... tested that, was ok... while another one removed the temp gauge from the motor block; put the multi-meter on that one... WE HAD IT! It gave correct values till about 60 deg.C, then it suddenly surged and went to infinite. Put in a new water temp gauge sensor, and the problem was gone - correct temperature, correct reading. While finishing off the remaining beers we summarized: *One* problem caused *simultaneously* by *three* defects where each defect on its own could have produced the problem, further complicated by a new spare part that was already shot... now if this wasn't truly a Land Rover experience. And it shows how important it is to be able to work on your Land/Range/Disco Rover yourself - imagine what a regular garage would've done to you -and your wallet- if you'd bring in a car with such a problem... Stefan From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 06 95 Mar EST 1909 Date: 06 Mar 95 09:31:22 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Freewheel front and rear Mark: Yes, you can fit locking hubs front and rear. I know a couple of folks who have done this so they can tow their series Land Rovers easily (they don't have to dis-connect the driveshaft each time they tow). Other than that usage, I don't know why anyone would want to install them in the rear (Front-Wheel Drive econo-Rovers?), but it is no more complex than installing on the front. Cheers, R.Pierce Reid From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Tue Mar 7 02:22:02 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 02:22:02 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Real Time???? Would someone inform me about the 'Real-Time' list and how it differs from the others? Thanks. rickcrider@aol.com From tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Mon Mar 6 16:55:20 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Mar 95 16:55:20 EST From: tonyb@ejv.com (Tony Bromberg) Subject: Ra/Ro ignition system. Hello everyone! I'm about to change ignition components on my 89 Range Rover. Namely, cap & rotor, ignition wires, coil wire, spark plugs. Does anyone have any experience/recomendation regarding alternative brands (ie. OEM, Bosch aftermarket, ???). Thanks TonyB From Duncan Rose 10 1995 Mar U 1909 Date: 10 Mar 1995 09:03:12 U From: Duncan Rose Subject: OOF: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello, Duncan A D Rose is away from the office but will be returning on 24.04.95. For further assistance please contact Keith Cameron on 644269. From Pierre Antony Ketteridge Tue Mar 07 13:12:12 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 1995 13:12:12 GMT From: Pierre Antony Ketteridge Subject: An Introduction to Offroad Instruction Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: --------------------------------------------------- Martin rang up a couple of weeks ago. "'Ullo? Pierre? Got a job yet, ya lazy fat f****r?" "Uh, no, not yet, but thanks for the solicitous enquiry anyway". "Look, Pierre, we're short an Instructor for tomorrow's session. Do you fancy stepping in - you'll get paid standard tutor rates, of course". Martin runs Spectrum 4x4, an offroad driving school and "safari tour" organisation, operating half a dozen Land Rovers at various sites in South Yorkshire. What he was offering was a day as an Instructor at the Sheffield Dry Slope Ski Centre - a testing offroad course had been excavated alongside the artificial ski slope. It wouldn't be easy, Martin told me - it was school half-term, and my charges would be inner-city jd's, persistent offenders mostly. Great. The little *****s had probably been driving longer than I had, and knicking better cars, too. The local authority were paying for this "diversion" - their idea of rehab, probably. I agreed to do it, reluctantly. Wednesday morning loomed, ominously. I had to be in Barnsley for 9 o'clock, too. Bummer! Gettin' up when it's still dark, and me unemployed. At the workshop I hunted around for a SWB 2.25 diesel, something old and underpowered and *slow* (don't usually let kids drive anything else), but Martin explained that all the regular trucks were in bits, or out. "You'll have to take the petrol V8". Oops. "Oh, and another thing... the council phoned up - the borstal kids aren't coming, so we've got another group for you. I'm sorry to spring this on you like this, but, they're........ GIRLS". Oh woe. It got worse... they were 5th form girls - that places them at about, oh, fifteen or sixteen. And there were EIGHT of them! I left Barnsley in a foul, depressed mood, fighting the steering on the big V8 truck, trying to hold it on the road (109" wheelbase, permanent 4x4, no FWHs). So I got to the Sheffield Dry Slope at about 10:30, and there they were, huddled around behind the minibus, puffing away on half-hidden cigarettes and scowling around with that look that *is* teenage rebellion. Their attire was not exactly, uh, appropriate for a day of mudplugging, but at least they weren't wearing stiletto heels... [NB It's a strange tradition of Northern English towns and cities that, in midwinter, the youth of our fair (but wet, and bitterly cold) island must take to the streets in the most skimpy clothing imaginable. On a Saturday night in Leeds (or Manchester, or Bradford, or Newcastle) City Centre you will always find hordes of young girls out clubbing, dressed in the obligatory "bird" uniform - microminiskirt, stockings (or bare legs), cut- away-midriff teeshirt, and a handbag. That's it. Bras are frowned on. A jacket or coat is laughable. The young lads have en ensemble of jeans, loafers and a sleeveless white cotton teeshirt. An arm or leg in a plaster cast is a useful fashion accessory. Projectile vomiting by 1 am is mandatory.] These girls were attired thus, except it was 10 o'clock in the morning. Oh well. Without further ado, I sorted 'em out into some kind of pecking order, and loaded 'em up. Interestingly, none of the girls had ever driven before, so the pedals were the main problem (remember, this is the UK, where stick-shift is the norm) and the clutch seemed an alien concept. Keeping their left foot off the brake was the crucial factor, so "legs apart" was the order of the day. You wouldn't believe the number of times I had to dive in and wrench those knees apart to instil "pedal awareness".... I'd been worried that I'd have trouble as an offroad instructor, but actually, it sorta came naturally to me. I couldn't believe how quickly I picked it up! And the speed at which I grasped the... uh.... contours of the course, and the RIGHT WAY to approach obstacles... ... Hitting the entrance boulder at the first turn,*just so*, with the offside front at *exactly* 12mph, would make Diane lift out of the driving seat, levitate approx 12" and land on the centre console, her skirt rucked up and her left buttock on my unmentionables. This manouevre would knock the gearstick into neutral, and I would have to reach between her knees to re-engage. Before lifting her up and placing her back in the driving seat, of course. This ensured that the vehicle would stall, and we'd have to go through the "legs apart" pedal positions again. ... Going over the top on "The Ridge" and slamming down into the flat would propel Samantha forward, and her incredible 38" jubblies right into the nape of my neck, one either side. "Haha, I didn't know Land Rovers had air bags! Hoho! Never mind, are they bruised? Let's try that again, Darryl, I think you need to change the approach angle a bit ... next time, a bit faster, and take the fall line... Sam, sit a coupla inches to the left..." I kept them reassured with my "favourite Uncle Pierre" banter... ... keeping the driver's side window open as we crested the Hogsback maximised side vision, and got Sarah's glorious raven tresses whipping my face, and invading my mouth. "Mmmmm, phlbrt...... argle, yes, yes, that's wonderthufl, Thara, look ath the ...sphtt... luthly phew from here..." ... crossing the "Stepping Stones" at *just* above the recommended speed resulted in a very satisfying display in the rearview mirror of "Synchronised Boob Bouncing", and the riding up of various cutaway teeshirts with awesome visual fx. The coup de grace was approaching a steep incline without enough revs. Realising we were grinding to a halt, the lovely lass in the driving seat would floor it, the truck would start bucking and kicking, and I'd have to insist on the diff lock being engaged. By some quirk, Martin had had this installed on the extreme left of the passenger footwell, and being the perfectionist tutor that I am (hah!), I insisted that the girl reach across my lap and engage the thing herself - so she'd learn for herself, of course. Aaaaaaaah. Funnily enough, the girls all did ~very poorly~, we had to go over the course again and again, and I had to do an awful lot of "hands-on" instruction. Except for Lorraine, that is - she was perfect, she was. Didn't even put a foot wrong, that Lorraine. She was the exception in this group. Lorraine had the build of a Mountain Gorilla. A large one. "Gorillas In The Mist". Well, "Gorilla In My Midst", anyway. And she was wearing the same sort of getup as the other girls. Eeuurk! Gross. She had arms like Popeye hanging out of her tent-like teeshirt, and was wearing, beneath the hovercraft skirt, fishnet tights that lent her legs the appearance of well- ripened Italian salami. Her porcine bulk strained at the "Fruit of the Loom" shirt, folds and swatches of blubber hunging down and imparting a hint of "Bibendum", the Michelin Man. Nestling among this glut of cellulite hung her ample dugs, recognisable through the cotton by the saucer-sized nipples which, rather than peeking through, sank back into her flesh like moon craters. Picture, if you will, the "Fat Slags" in "VIZ" magazine. To give her due credit, her pale skin had a translucent quality, like fine alabaster - if you took a small enough sample area, that is. Expand the area, and her hide looked more like Istrian marble, with blue and purple veins crisscrossing the surface. Anyway, driving-wise Lorraine was fine. Honest Injun. No intervention needed there. So good, in fact, that I didn't even need to sit in the front with her, but huddled in the back sneaking a quick smoke with the other girls. All good things must eventually come to an end, so we said our farewells, the girls tripping up and giving me a nice (chaste) peck on the cheek. Hang on, I just remembered that there were 10 pupils. There *were* a couple of boys on this trip. I dunno, they must have done OK, as I don't remember much about them ;-> Martin said it all went very well, apologised for inconveniencing me with a truckload of "screaming schoolkids", and asked if I would mind awfully if he asked me again sometime. Hmmmm, I wonder... can I take the stress? He wants me to train up as a guide and instructor for Peak Safaris, and suggested I come out with him next week and explore them. Yeah, I could handle that - and even if nothing else, I should discover some new green lanes.... -- Pierre OBTW re: my recent post about SII/IIAs: my deadline's in a couple of days, so if anyone *has* got any info etc they want to mail me, I need it NOW! :-) -- Pierre ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I have cut down on my fire-eating recently, since finding out it can do irrepairable damage to your lungs if the paraffin goes down the wrong way" - Darryn Saville, fire-eater ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From "T.F. Mills" Fri Mar 10 02:33:29 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 02:33:29 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: More Rovers in Living Daylights Pierce writes re Living Daylights Rovers: < Opening scene -- Series III military being driven flat-out across Gibralter < ending in its' being driven off a cliff and exploding in mid-air after Bond [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] < before the plane crashes. < I don't think I missed any this time. You missed at least two (but maybe they were one and the same, and maybe they were the same SIII as the opening scene in Gibraltar -- I missed that part). As the protagonists land in Afg, there's a long shot of SIII parked on airfield. When they return to airfield for the climax, there's a rear view of some Russkiis driving perhaps the same vehicle (and it's definitely not the "cobbled" 90.) < BTW... Where'd everyone go? The list is 1/4 the size as before. This can't be < because Taylor stopped asking questions.... ;-) Taylor took everybody to rec.autos.4x4! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Pete Young Fri Mar 10 10:00:59 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:00:59 GMT From: Pete Young Subject: Re: More Rovers in Living Daylights T. F. Mills writes: >Taylor took everybody to rec.autos.4x4! ... where I discovered the existence of this excellent mailing list, and immediately unsubscribed from rec.autos.4x4, which is full of tedious gibberish from US college kids about Japanese and US imitations of Solihull's finest. I'm new to Land Rovers - I've just acquired a 1986 110 CSW because (a) I've wanted one since I was about 8 years old and (b) I need something capable of towing and launching a boat and carrying 6 divers + full kit. My wife is now convinced that I have taken leave of my senses. Somebody please tell me that this is normal! Regards Pete From Andrew Grafton Fri Mar 10 10:19:12 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:19:12 GMT From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Re : RR Putting the heat on I've just recieved the below and have a couple of comments; **** Begin Enclosed Section **** Sure enough, the pump was shot, but that sort of damage none of us had ever seen before: The edges and surfaces of the rotating pump wheel looked like they had been coarsly sandblasted, all pitted and chipped, and the mating surface on the front engine cover had a circular depression that looked like a wash-out from swirling water. Makes me worry, because directly behind this depression in the already rather thin cover is the timing chain housing. Imagine water being forced with high pressure through a crack into the timing gears... **** End Enclosed Section **** The damage you describe sounds almost exactly like a condition known as cavitation which I have seen in large numbers of pumps in commercial (i.e. bulk fluid pumping) applications. I am not familiar with the construction of the RR water pump and may therefore be completely wrong - correct me if this is the case! In simple terms, cavitation is caused by the following mechanism; * Due to prevailing conditions in the pump, the fluid being pumped "breaks away" from the surface of the impeller (the 'rotating pump wheel'?), causing a small area of extremely low pressure to form. Imagine a bubble of air sticking to the surface of the impeller like happens in the bottom of a freshly-run bath. Now imagine that there is nothing but vacuum inside that bubble, and that the void is caused by low pressure. * As soon as the conditions change (i.e. the local pressure rises), water collapses into the bubble/void with incredible force. The impact of the 'inrushing' water on the surface of the impeller is so great that it removes material like a meteorite hitting the moon. I've seen high-speed pumps running in totally the wrong application lose kilos of impeller material in a week - the process can be very quick once things get out of hand. Cavitation (or associated effects) would also account for the circular depression on the other side of the housing. The really interesting thing is what caused a normally well-behaved pump to suddenly self-destruct? Or did this happen over a long period? Whichever is the case, my first bet would be on some kind of obstruction on the inlet side of the pump, maybe adjacent to the pump, maybe further up the line. It would be well worth cheking. Is there a non-standard element to the cooling system? A reduction in pipe diameters or a radiator choked up with rad-weld could produce problems. A usual indication of severe cavitation is a rushing/pinging/scraping noise coming from the pump. Sounds like it is trying to pump a hard, suspended solid. Could be kinda difficult to isolate with an i.c. engine running next to it tho! Hope this is either of help or causes controversy. Perhaps someone put salt water or sand in the cooling system <- alternative explanation! :-) All the best, Andy Grafton From Andrew Grafton Fri Mar 10 10:25:02 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:25:02 GMT From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Re: RR putting the heat on A quick follow up to my previous (3 mins ago) posting...; If the RR had been running with the coolant boiling or almost boiling for a period of time (like it had been running too hot but not red hot) then this could induce pump damage. Andy From jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Fri Mar 10 02:29:56 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 02:29:56 -0800 From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instruction >Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: >--------------------------------------------------- [schnip] congratulations pierre. your writing style is vivid and passably well crafted. not to mention which, you managed to post one of the most sexist and offensive pieces of drivel i've yet seen on the rover mailing list (and that's saying something). -jory From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Fri Mar 10 05:43:44 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 05:43:44 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: MADE IT!!!!!! Hello all: I've finally received my 'acceptance' to this elusive list and, having seen only one days mailing, already love it. SERIOUS 'Thanks' to all of you who reached out to my queries for help, and especially to Bill Coloccia. Though I've posted (I think) a few things prior to my receiving mailings, I'm not sure what got through and what didn't. I'm getting in sync now and promise not to be redundant in the future. Brief Profile: Rick Crider 111 S. Hayne St. Monroe NC 28112 (704) 289-6303 Age 38, married, one child, small time private real estate investor (aka:landlord, though that title sometimes has negative impact). Long time Land Rover owner. First Landy: '70 II-A / 88" (failrly rough). Current Rovers: '73 III / 88", red, one owner (prior to me), 37000 documented miles, all paper work back to day one including the shipping ticket from the UK. Mint condition....too clean for its intended purpose. My daily driver is a Range Rover, 1988, 90,000+ miles. We've had our moments but its never totally stranded me. Other obsessions: Old Alfa Romeos (seven at the moment), Amatuer (ham) radio operator (KD4FXA), and general gadget nut. Correspondence welcome from all, especially nearby Rover owners. Monroe is near Charlotte NC. Anyone out there in the near vicinity? Traveling Roverists in the area with trouble are welcome to call...have garage, shop tools, and some spares. Very handy with the older ones.....not much help on the newer electronic stuff. Would love to have one of the 500 '93 Defender 110's if you know the whereabouts of one reasonably close. Thanks again.....looking forward. Cordially: Rick Crider From Mike Rooth Fri Mar 10 10:48:27 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:48:27 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: More Rovers in Living Daylights Hi Pete, I am glad to be able to inform you that a)Yes you *have* taken leave of your senses,and: b)This is perfectly normal. What happens now,in the usual course of events is this. You drive her around in the Land Rover,suffering the slings and arrows etc,for a month or two.*Then* you beg,borrow,steal, or hire a saloon car for an afternoon and drive her around in that.Quickly.Watch for the white knuckle effect.She will*not* feel safe with the bum so close to the road.Neither will you, but that's beside the point.Should your lady wife be of an inquisitive nature(most of them are,so its a fairly safe bet), drive her round the neighbourhood,encouraging her to look at the scenery.Mrs so-and-so's front room furnishings,old Mr whatsit front garden and the state thereof,you know the sort of thing.These details were not previously on view from the lesser vantage point of lesser vehicles.(Warning.Dont mention the fact that a Transit van is roughly the same height). However,its a *bad* thing to travel too often past shop windows, which from a Land Rover are laid out in full view for her delight, (I think shopkeepers do this on purpose),and you havent the speed whizz past without her spotting something,which her life has hitherto been incomplete without. Above all,*dont* let her drive it!You will never,ever,get it back. Unless,of course,you can work the"well,if its *your* Land Rover, I'll just have to get another one for me"trick.Its a good trick if you can work it,but should be regarded as a last resort. Enjoy Yourself Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Fri Mar 10 11:03:08 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 11:03:08 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instruction > >Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: > >--------------------------------------------------- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > that's saying something). > -jory Yes,I liked it too! Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Fri Mar 10 11:09:49 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 11:09:49 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Re : RR Putting the heat on Ah,but would a *circ* pump,rather than a delivery pump produce the effect,bearing in mind that the pressure *should* be as near as dammit the same throughout the system.Although I tak your point about restrictions.I'd go for the "foreign bodies" theory myself, particularly since so much gave up the ghost all-of-a-sudden-Peggy, as it were. cheers Mike Rooth From Morgan Hannaford Sun Mar 5 18:13:27 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 18:13:27 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: good Rovers-bad movie Another movie to add to the list! I watched Lethal Ninja last night, and I'm really embarassed! But I looked up the subject in the T.V. listings and it said a ninja dude rescues damsel in Africa. There has to be a Rover in this one. And there was, several. I don't want to ruin the plot for you, in fact I can't remember what the plot was- but, here are some interesting points: 1) Ninja hiding in the back of a topless 109, gives guy the death grip! 2) 2 blown up Rovers 1 88 and 1 109 (as per above). 3) cool Ser. III 109 SW, military green with big tires! This is driven by the heroes (zeros). Although I cringed when they said "get the jeep". 4) Squeeling tires from the 109 SW on dirt roads! Cool chase scene when the 109 SW does "Rockford Files" type manuevers. Does the Rovers North off-road school teach how to do a reverse 180 sliding turn in a 109? 5) Cool braking technique to avoid going off the cliff, roll the Rover. Then get out the back door that opens the wrong way (hinges exposed and all). Joe Bob would say "check it out", if he owned a Rover. Ciao, Morgan From Morgan Hannaford Sun Mar 5 18:04:38 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Mar 1995 18:04:38 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Cal. LR 4 sale Everyone who cares: I'm sure I'll be arrested for insider trading info. but I have a line on a Rover for sale. I was parked outside a Mexican restraunt in Napa Calif. (my home town), eating inside. A kid (~20) comes up to my table and asks, "do either of you guys own the Land Rover outside?" "why yes" I reply. This kid wants to sell his '69 IIA 88", 89,000 original miles, mostly original mechanics (Rover engine), new interior and window tracks, it is red with a white top and has 5 new B.F.G. Mud Terrains on it. He wants about $6500 for it, but he says he spent $5000 on it, fixed up the interior, etc. When we said (I was sitting with another LRO) "why", he claimed that he "wants something that goes faster than 60mph". hack, cough, hack hack.............. My smart alec mother said "like a Honda"? and the kid gave an afirmative gesture. So, if you have a spare $6000 (I'm sure he is flexible) or a nice Honda that will go faster than 60mph give this guy a call. Matt Biair, (707)224-1650. He also said it has a "kick ass stereo in it". To which we replied, "well you have to have one to hear it, in a Land Rover". ****************************************************************** By the way, my mother wondered why he came up to only our table in a crowed Napa restraunt? Ciao, Morgan From cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Charlie Wright) Fri Mar 10 12:22:13 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 12:22:13 +0000 From: cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Charlie Wright) Subject: Re: oracle questions from neophyte Craig Murry insists: >Lucas electric aren't all that bad, it is just that people with series >Land Rovers have electrical systems that are probably at least 20 years >old! I'm sorry, but I have to disagree here. Lucas has earned its reputation through years of substandard and even dangerous wiring and electrics. The simplest answer is that the Bosch electrics in my BMW are also 21 years old, and they are as reliable, neat, and unmolested as ever. Yes I had a starter motor reconditioned, but that's pretty fair at that age. I have more or less replaced the electrics in the Land Rover, much of which involved putting in relays where 13 amp circuits had been running through my (metal) dash and replacing the infamous bullet connectors. I'm sorry, Lucas electrics are the invention of the devil... but we all love them... Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Mar 10 00:45:40 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:45:40 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Technical Question David John Place wrote: >One last try. Hope my mail works now. I think what's happening is that the lro@team.net mailer deamon is sending the message(s) just fine, and echos to everyone EXCEPT the sender. Consequently, after waiting awhile and NOT receiving the bounce from the deamon, the sender feels that the message was misdirected. Bill Caloccia, ...help us out here. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Mar 10 00:28:18 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:28:18 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Swivel Balls and Seals Clayton R Kirkwood (kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com) writes: > I noticed at least on the Defender and I think on the Disco, that the wheel > is attached to the axle via a round ball (not a very technical description, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > and even by dirt, sand etc. Comments: is this a real world problem? Does the > "ball" really help in the articulation? Craig Murray continues: >The only ball I can think of is for the steering on the front axle, and >has nothing to do with suspension. If you are really worried about them >tho I think you can buy gaitors for them. The articulation is handled by swivel pins inside the ball. The ball provides the spherical shape against which the large circular oil seal bears against, seperating the internal oil and external dirt/environment. Gaitors are highly recommended to keep dirt/soil/water/salt/etc off of the sphere and working its way under the seal. Caked up dirt on the top of the ball will eventually corrode the top of the ball and cause pitting. The top of the ball should therefore be kept clean and oiled. The bottom of the ball will generally stay oily as the sphere moves in and out of the oil chamber behind the seal, as the oil level (see filler plug) should reach at least halfway up. Gaitors are leather treated initially with vaseline at installation, and then with 90W from the swivel ball. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Mar 10 01:00:31 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 01:00:31 -0800 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Real Time???? Rick Crider (rickcrider@aol.com) wrote: >Would someone inform me about the 'Real-Time' list and how it differs from >the others? Thanks. rickcrider@aol.com The 'real time' list echos messages sent to lro@team.net virtually instantly to the addresses/subscribers on the list. Unfortunately, no new subscribers are currently being accepted. The 'digest' list subscribers get a daily compilation of all messages for that day sent as one email message, usually around 7 or 8 AM UK time. Michael Carradine Carradine Studios Tel.500-442-6500 Architect Architecture Development Planning Pgr.510-945-5000 NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA cs@crl.com From bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Tue Mar 7 21:01:29 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 1995 21:01:29 -0500 From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: Steering problems cont... Well, I feel like a total idiot now. You may remember I was having trouble with the steering on my IIA. I tried some of the things suggested to me last week with no improvements. Then I had the bright idea of checking my tire pressures. They were at 14-15psi all around, which seemed a bit low, to say the least. I inflated them to a more reasonable pressure and the problem was gone. Somehow I had managed to disasssemble and reassemble almost the entire car without once checking the pressures! (sound of head being banged repeatedly on table) Thanks to everyone who responded, and next time I'll check things more carefully before I jump in and waste bandwidth. :) bcw 1966 88" petrol From Mike Rooth Fri Mar 10 14:19:19 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 14:19:19 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Lucas Aglow OK,Craig says Lucas isnt too bad,Charlie disagrees. So,what actually *is* Lucas in terms of bits. On mine,headlamps,voltage regulator,starter,and switches on the dashboard.Oh,and the bullet connections that Charlie hates and I wish you could still get.Who actually *said* the wiring was Lucas?I for one have never seen it written anywhere.Ah,I forgot the dynamo in that list.And the first decent battery I've ever had on it(diesel,dont forget)that's Lucas,too. There aint any more of Uncle Joe *on* the beast.Fine,if it was petrol,the distributor would be as well. If Lucas stuff is so awful,why is it that out of all the cars I've owned over the years,I've never had any trouble with Lucas gear.On the other hand,my Triumph Dolomite had an AC Delco distributor.American isnt it?The sintered iron bushes wore out giving anything between half a mile to minus ten yards point gap.Rebush it sir?No way,you can only do that with Lucas. Actually I *did* re-bush it,with proper Admiralty Gunmetal bushes,turned from bar and lapped in. Why did the wiring on a two year old Citroen GSA go on fire, putting out all the lights.And you try making sense of French wiring.Ducellier? Bosch stuff may be OK,the only experience of the make I've had was a set of spark plugs I threw out after a month,they were so awful.Put Champions in instead. I dont really think its a fair comparison,BMW and Land Rover. I mean you dont see too many BMW cars at off road events,or chugging round farmyards,covered in corrosive cow crap,wiring and all. I've got a sneaking suspicion that Lucas stuff is neither better nor worse than anyone elses.My only wiring problems tend to be with aged and therefore brittle wires,and you can hardly blame Uncle Joe for the copper.Its never blown a bulb(touch wood) the original dynamo worked far longer then it ought to have done considering the state it had got into(and even then I recovered it for another year).Sure,I'm on my third starter motor,but the first one went on fire due to some clown rewiring the main starter circuit with 440V mains earth cable,and the next one fell off,which was my own stupid fault. So whose to say?I'll tell you one thing,thoughAt least the old 11A possesses a wiring diagram I can understand.And considering my state of electrical incompetance that is no mean feat.Have you seen what passes for a wiring diagram for modern cars? Cheers Mike Rooth From "David McKain" Fri Mar 10 09:33:40 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 09:33:40 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: Pump Cavitaion Pumps cavitate when pressure at the pump impeller surface decreases close the the surfaces of the pump. The lowered pressure combined with the high coolant temperature result in the formation of vapor (steam) bubbles on the pump impeller surface. As as the bubble moves outward from the center region of the impeller the pressure rises and causes the vapor in the bubble to collapse (violently) resulting in 1) an audible noise and 2) possible damage to the impeller. I spent six years in the Navy working in an engine room and listened to this all the time, even the ships propellors cavitate at high speed. Although I have only pulled a few water pumps, I have never seen or heard of that kind of damage. Interesting. The most important thing is to find all of the impeller pieces which are now in the coolant system. Anyone ever heard of damage this severe in an automobile water pump? Take care David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From "Gerald L. Mandell" Fri Mar 10 09:48:46 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 09:48:46 -0500 From: "Gerald L. Mandell" Subject: Range Rover ignition key I love my brand new 95 classic but have a question that the dealer can't answer. The ignition key will not start the car "sometimes" unless I tap the brake pedal.This happens about half time. I have not figured out the pattern ,if any. An email response would be appreciated. Jerry gerald mandell gm@galen.med.virginia.edu From Tom Stevenson Fri Mar 10 14:34:50 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:34:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: clanking Defender I get no clanking noises etc from my Ninety when off road, just the odd twang and boing from the suspension. Mind you, it doesn't do much rock climbing; mostly mud. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Tom Spoto Fri Mar 10 06:39:29 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 06:39:29 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Spoto Subject: Re: Lucas Aglow On Fri, 10 Mar 1995, Mike Rooth wrote: > OK,Craig says Lucas isnt too bad,Charlie disagrees. > So,what actually *is* Lucas in terms of bits. > On mine,headlamps,voltage regulator,starter,and switches on > the dashboard.Oh,and the bullet connections that Charlie hates > and I wish you could still get. I'm rewiring my '67' 88 and had no problem getting Lucas bullet connectors and the female sockets both single and double. I guess this is my introduction to the list. Three Rovers, all 88's. The previously mentioned '67' IIa I've had since May 1975, and two '72' III's the red one in a state of flux. When something goes on the white one the red gets parted out and then replaced later. Live in the Pacific Northwest, Bellingham, Washington to be precise. The Cascade Mountains and Canada just a few minutes away give lots of wilderness driving episodes. Regards trs From Tom Spoto Fri Mar 10 06:51:14 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 06:51:14 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Spoto Subject: Re: Pump Cavitaion On Fri, 10 Mar 1995, David McKain wrote: > Pumps cavitate when pressure at the pump impeller surface decreases > close the the surfaces of the pump. The lowered pressure combined [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] > Morgantown, WV 26505 > USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol Yes. When I was working in Australia I asked one of the Australian Mechanics on the ship working with me about 4.4 liter Oz versions of Rovers 3.5. My intention was buy one ship it home and put in my Rover. Always have to be different. Anyway He said what ever I did pull the water pump and inspect it as these engines were prone to cavitation and pitting severe enough to require welding and machine work or junking it. I did get to ship some stuff home from Darwin and Perth to convert to a pickup. Thats my 2 cents. Regards trs From Russell Burns Fri Mar 10 7:20:24 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 7:20:24 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Range Rover ignition key Welcome to the wonderful world of lucas. Actually this is what gives Land Rovers their personility. Every lucus electronics has a mind of its own. Russ 91 Ranger Rover, which relays chatter once in a while 94 D-90 which refuses to start for a couple of min once in a great while. > I love my brand new 95 classic but have a question that the dealer can't answer. > The ignition key will not start the car "sometimes" unless I tap the brake [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > gerald mandell > gm@galen.med.virginia.edu From Sanna@aol.com Fri Mar 10 10:45:00 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 10:45:00 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: More Rovers in Living Daylights >My wife is now convinced that I have taken leave of my senses. Sorry Pete, your wife's right. From Sanna@aol.com Fri Mar 10 11:03:36 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:03:36 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Capstan winch querry. >I got the oportunity to put a stock Defender 110 capstan winch on the front of a III 88" How much can these puppies pull? You impress me Taylor. Capstan winches are really cool. They give you a lot more control, AND they give you that HE-MAN MACHO feeling of recovering the vehicle with your own muscles. Taylor, you HULK you. From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Mar 10 10:47:18 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 10:47:18 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Back to Normal Ahh...everything back on track...well, almost. Kelly's having some problems with Craddock's...jacking prices up from 54 to 116 pounds. Well, that is S.O.P. for them, and as there is a puddle (and a continent) between you and them, t'aint much you can do about it either! A while back, I saw one of Craddock's adds that listed the short starting think so. I called them to complain, but the bloke on the other end quoted the company little red book about special orders and what-not and basically said that if I didn't like it I could go get stuffed. Well, bugger Craddock's I say. Try Merseyside...far better service (and attitude). Dave's got some questions about manifold vacuum and noble gasses. 21" at idle is great...anything over 20" is gravy. A friend who runs a one-man welding shop (and former Land Rover owner) uses only argon for aluminum welding. His business now consists solely of making supports/towers for sport fishing boats...he prefers TIG welding (better heat control) and his welds are gorgeous, but he is working with heavier stock than Birmabright panels. The Lumiweld stuff and a standard propane torch do a good job, but the stuff hardens to Rockwell C60, so machining the weld afterwards is damn near impossible. And, Stefan...well done! It's amazing what you can do when logic and collective reasoning prevail! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Bill Yerazunis Fri Mar 10 11:33:30 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 11:33:30 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: Disco Truths (was: Oracle Questions) Well, I can't say how *long* a new 94 or 95 Disco will last, but I'm expecting mine to last at least a light-second (186Kmiles) and expecting around a quarter-million miles. Expect to spend about $500 every 30K miles for the "standard maintenance" - I just had mine done at the 'droids, who did a very nice job and stamped my warranty book. I use Mobil-1 synthetic lubricants all through it- no major leaks yet! :-) The Disco is a TRUCK- truck-sized cooling, lubing, and maintenance. The engine and transmission both have auxilliary oil coolers; the main radiator is sized larger than the radiator for a 400 cubic inch V8 in an american muscle-car. re: power: Most car engines are specced at maximum power sustainable without damage or or overheat for ten seconds; Land Rover's idea of speccing power is maximum power at full throttle sustainable for TWENTY-FOUR HOURS without overheating or losing lube (actually, the spec is twenty-four hours full throttle in each of four positions - nose up 45 degrees, down 45 degrees, tilted left 45 degrees, tilted right 45 degrees). re: the console: No, the center console is no problem for rear-seat passengers. Sit in the rear seat in the center if you want to verify this. re: the jump seats: If the driver's side jump seat is set toward the center and not recessed, then the car you saw had the extra REAR air conditioner! (which mounts where the jump seat would and displaces the jump seat out about six inches). The rear air conditioner is an extra cost option; I doubt if you need it. I don't have rear air and both jump seats are within an inch or two of the rear windows when stowed. No problem with the seats jumping around- and kids love 'em. At least my neices do. They call 'em the "safari seats". re: traction control: No, the Disco is a fulltime 4WD with fulltime 4-wheel, 4-channel all-terrain antilock brakes but not with "traction control". Traction control basically senses when a wheel is spinning and cuts the engine power. It's a big win for 2WD sedans and minivans but not much good if you have 4WD. The 4-wheel 4-channel all-terrain ABS means: 4-wheel: that all four wheels are sensor-equipped and modulatable; 4-channel: that each of the four wheels are monitored and modulated independently (THIS is important!) all-terrain: ABS programming has been modified to include proper behavior on soft surfaces where you *do* get more braking power by allowing some wheel skid (which builds up a pile of loose surface material in front of the wheel which improves braking significantly on dirt roads), as well as continuing to sense and modulate down to like .5 MPH, where most on-road ABSes cut out around 3 MPH. I haven't had any need to install aftermarket add-ons under the hood; I can give you two hints about electric add-ons, especially cellphones and ham radio rigs (courtesy of Scott Tucker of Land Rover USA in Maryland): 1) if you see a yellow wiring harness cover- STAY AWAY! That's your airbag system! Keep low-power RF at least a foot away, and high-power RF as far away as possible! 2) there's some "nice space" for installing gear under the plastic trim at the back of the truck just forward and aft of the jump seats. You'll need an allen wrench to take the jump seats out, but when you have them out, you can install a good chunk of stuff in there, which is then completely concealed when you put the trim back, and no theif will ever get out without the right sized allen wrench and a half-hour to remove the seating. Re: working on the car: It's EASY. No need for ramps, jackstands, etc. Just crawl under. It really is a very easy vehicle to deal with. re: the front axle articulation: Those "steel balls" are hollow inside, and contain the front universals running in a bath of heavy oil. This is a much more robust design than the typical open (unshielded) joint or a joint covered by a rubber boot. (think what happens when a sharp wooden stick hits a rubber boot. The rubber boot tears, you lose your joint lubrication, mud and grit get in, and the joint fails. If a sharp wooden stick hits that steel ball, the stick turns to kindling and you continue on your way.) re: ground clearance: The number you're quoting is the minimum clearance at any point- and that's the bottom of the differentials. Land Rover differentials are bigger because they're stronger. --- but you should also notice that the Land Rover differentials are off to the side of the vehicle, and lined up with each other. The Isuzu has one in the middle and one on one side. Thus, the effective envelope of what the LR can go over without scraping is larger than the Isuzu's envelope. When in doubt, try to straddle big boulders or to put them directly UNDER you-the driver. That's the maximum clearance zone. re: the D90 versus the Disco: Unless they've changed something, the D90 does not have ABS nor airbags. They have the same engine, same transmission, but different "transfer cases" (that's the auxilliary geardown unit that splits power). They both have a "low range" for extra-heavy-duty pulling; the Disco low range is a 2.9:1 geardown and the D90 is a 3.5:1 geardown. re: theft and insurance: the Disco was actually less expensive to insure than my previous car, a Subaru! Final analysis, now that I've owned one for a year and 30Kmiles: "would I buy another if this one got stolen, totalled, etc?" YES!!! It's not a sports car, but it's got it "down deep", where it counts. -Bill Yerazunis (and Sally X-ray) From Steve Methley Fri Mar 10 17:00:26 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 17:00:26 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: Range Rover ignition key > ...........95 classic but have a question that the dealer can't answer. > The ignition key will not start the car "sometimes" unless I tap the brake > pedal.This happens about half time. > I have not figured out the pattern ,if any. > An email response would be appreciated. Gerry, your RR is simply too new. Go buy an older one ;-) Cheers, Steve. From Steve Methley Fri Mar 10 17:07:24 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 17:07:24 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: oracle questions from neophyte Charlie says, > The simplest answer is that the Bosch electrics in my BMW are also 21 years > old, and they are as reliable, neat, and unmolested as ever. ......... > I have more or less replaced the electrics in the Land Rover, much of which Two things spring to mind here: 1. what did you pay for the Beamer and what did you pay for the LR? 2. When was the last time you did off road bump and grind in the BMW..............? I'm with Mike R on this one. Cheers, Steve. From Dixon Kenner Fri Mar 10 12:08:52 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 12:08:52 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Capstan winch querry. On Fri, 10 Mar 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: > >I got the oportunity to put a stock Defender 110 capstan winch on the front > of a III 88" How much can these puppies pull? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > more control, AND they give you that HE-MAN MACHO feeling of recovering the > vehicle with your own muscles. Taylor, you HULK you. The pull of a capstan winch is augmented by the breaking strain of the rope. My suggestion to Taylor is to get some nice 2" diameter rope. Huge breaking point. We use it for LR tug-of-wars up here. Perfect for Taylors capstan winch! From Peter Aslan Fri Mar 10 15:08:14 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 15:08:14 +0000 (GMT) From: Peter Aslan Subject: Subscribe Please subscribe me to the Land Rover List. subscribe Subscribe SUBSCRIBE Peter Aslan (aka Captain Norton). Louden Quill Award. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- McDonnell Information Systems Boundary Way Hemel Hempstead Voice: 0442 273324 Hertfordshire HP2 7HU Fax: 0442 244896 ENGLAND Mail: paslan@uk.mdis.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Peter Aslan Fri Mar 10 15:10:53 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 15:10:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Peter Aslan Subject: Subscribe Please subscribe me to your list, sorry if this is to the list and not the list server or Admin or Whatever. subscribe Subscribe SUBSCRIBE Peter Aslan (aka Captain Norton). Louden Quill Award. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- McDonnell Information Systems Boundary Way Hemel Hempstead Voice: 0442 273324 Hertfordshire HP2 7HU Fax: 0442 244896 ENGLAND Mail: paslan@uk.mdis.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Mar 10 13:23:41 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 13:23:41 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: bump and grind in a bmw > Two things spring to mind here: 1. what did you pay for the Beamer and > what did you pay for the LR? 2. When was the last time you did off > road bump and grind in the BMW..............? none 12/16/94 and it was a total. rd/nige From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Fri Mar 10 10:25:28 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 10:25:28 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: RR putting the heat on I sympathize -- I've had the same problem on mine in 93 -- I stripped out the water pump, thermostat, etc only to find the problem was the temperature sender (a nice little $50 part) which was intermittent. The new one I got has a different "personality" and makes the gauge read higher! The moral I drew from the experience was, when ANY warning light or sensor reading indicates a problem, suspect the sensor first!! I don't mean ignore it and carry on, but I've found at least 50-50 chance it's the sensor that's the problem. Had the same thing happen on the coolant level sensor that insisted there was no coolant when there was! I've also had problems with the road speed sensor telling the ECU the vehicle is stationary, and the oil level sensor has a mind of its own completely independent of the actual oil level. oil level. I believe around 1991 many of these sensors were replaced with Siemens parts that are supposedly more reliable. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Charlie Wright) Fri Mar 10 19:13:33 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 19:13:33 +0000 From: cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk (Charlie Wright) Subject: worshippers of the Prince of Darkness >OK,Craig says Lucas isnt too bad,Charlie disagrees. >So,what actually *is* Lucas in terms of bits. Lucas bits may not be fundamentally worse than many others (and I certainly don't back the corners of Delco and others I don't know well enough), but Lucas has a habit of becoming a problem more through bad design than materials. Perhaps more of the onus falls on the Land-Rover engineers themselves. The dip-switch on my headlamps, for example. High current, rotating, self cleaning switch is a fine idea. But why would it be floor mounted... in a Land Rover? No self cleaning switch will get out some of what gets in there... The wiring. It may have been acceptable for its day, but it is neither well thought out nor safe nor robust. I do think the BMW makes a fair comparison, as they are about the same age. BMW managed to work both fuses and relays into the system, and put the loom and runs where they were accessible but protected from the elements and the road. Lucus' idea of a relay is the fact that something taking place in the cockpit is 'relayed' to the front or back of the vehicle. This is an improvement on getting out and lighting acetylene lanterns, yes ;-) His idea of a fuse is small gauge wire. If you get a dead short in your electrics (I have) the wire will usually burn out quietly before it sets something important on fire... I'm sorry to be so unforgiving, but these 'modern devices' did exist c. 1970, others managed to use them. No, I don't off road in the 2002 (though it would be fun to think about a rally conversion... 325ix drivetrain...), but if I did, it would not be the electrics that gave out. Land Rovers were designed for the tasks they do, and designed well, but Lucas is still not getting my vote for 'technical innovation' or safety in the near future. Having said that, if I didn't have Lucus to curse every time the lights went into stealth mode or the wiring loom suffered a 'smoke leak' it wouldn't be the same endearing vehicle it is. cheers, Charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Mar 10 16:06:15 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 16:06:15 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: 110s > Would love to have one of the 500 '93 Defender 110's if you know the > whereabouts of one reasonably close. There are three in the latest Hemmings, plus another (that I suspect is not a US Spec 110). One of these three (#5/500) is for sale by a friend of mine ("$40K obo" in the add, but all the others are above that AND have more miles AND, at least in one case is listed as "firm"). Any takers (no commisions here for me)? rd/nige From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Fri Mar 10 13:09:44 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 13:09:44 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: worshippers of the Prince of Darkness Also, many of the electrical components which love to fail on our Rovers are not even made by Lucas. A case in point is the Road Speed Transducer which has given me trouble -- made by Jaeger in France. Cheers John Brabyn From "Jeff Young" Fri Mar 10 16:44:41 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 16:44:41 -0500 From: "Jeff Young" Subject: Re: 110s at the risk of becomming the next taylor (he'll probably run off and buy something soon), is it feasible to import one of these? i understand that there are modifications that must be made before the vehicle can be released from the importer, or the importer's mechanic... would you be more likely to find one in canada? I expect that LHD vehicles could be found in europe outside the UK and i have a contact who has regurlarly imported vehicles (not lr's) from europe. He's even owned one or two lr's. i guess what i'd like to find is a LHD, series, , lwb, doormobile or any lhd, lwb defender. (what do you call the post-series lwb? it's a defender right?) worse shape the better (i want a project and i know that my wife won't let me sink too much cash -- all at once that is :-o). Jeff Young young@mci.net > From: "Russell G. Dushin" > Subject: Re: 110s [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > Any takers (no commisions here for me)? > rd/nige From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Mar 10 16:55:53 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 16:55:53 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: BR/DAP Merger Bruce McEnaney, formerly propreitor of British Rovers has purchased DAP Enterprises, late of Wareham, Mass. and is moving the company lock, stock and container load to Springfield, Vermont. Bruce is in the process of buying a former power company service garage and will have far more garage/service/warehouse space than ever before plus a staff o FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From David John Place Fri Mar 10 16:07:14 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 16:07:14 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Re : RR Putting the heat on I think you are on the right track. Cavitation is very common on boats where you don't have the prop at the right attack angle or too high etc. It eats aluminum props in no time. The edges get all warn like you have been driving in sand. The partially stuck thermostat is probably the cause. If the pump is turning fast and the thermostat won't allow enough water to enter, a swirl chamber is created pulling in air. This would account for the problem. 2 1/4 L Land Rovers often overheat for no good reason when you use a North American Thermostat instead of the skirted one. Is it possible this engine is designed for the skirted type and a flat one was installed. Look at Aluminum Workhorse sometime last year I think for a very good article on a fellow who explained the reason Land Rovers need the skirt. Since stopping cutting a flat N.A. type to fit I no longer have any overheating problems even on long hard runs. I had to order from England and even on the first try was sent an incorrect one from Bermach (sp). I finally got one from Melcolm in Alberta from old stock. Thank God I ordered spares because I don't know where to get them now. Dave VE4PN From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Fri Mar 10 15:45:49 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 15:45:49 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: suburban (as in urban) roving For all you real rocks and trees outdoor rover types, Today, Davis and most of california got hammered with storms. Not the usual rain but lots of big drops and fierce winds. Flooding here and there, power outages and trees down alot of places. Today was also a school holiday; my son and I planned to go skiing. Even with the rover, when things are like this, I don't go into the sierras, so we stayed home. Alex and I tried to go see a movie but were delayed (begin rover story). The city of davis, as some sort of historical practical joke has a 2 lane road (one lane each way) leading into downtown that is both the main street into town AND the low spot (due to going under train tracks!) in town. Put these two things together, mix in heavy rain and what do you get--------- a traffic jam as cars slowly make their way through the 10" of water at the bottom of the underpass. I went through the water following a woman in an old toyota corolla wagon (care to guess what happens?). Yes, she stalls out while in the water at the bottom of the slope. As I calmly wait and scope out the alternatives, she cranks and cranks, trying to start the little car. I decide that if it gets moved to the side, cars might be able to go around her until something can pull/push her out of the way. I take off my shoes and socks, roll up my pants and get out of the rover. I tell the driver to steer the car off to the side and I'll push. She sort of understands. I push but it's hard so I ask if the car is in gear. Yes she says, getting out, shoes and socks disappearing under water. Too late but I say take your shoes and socks off. When I get the car moving, the guy in the pickup behind me appears, he also without shoes or socks; then the Davis Enterprise reporter/photographer who was on the sidelines joins us. We manage to push the car up the hill and out of the way. On my way back to the rover, I see that a davis cop has shown up and is in the wrong lane trying to drive to the trouble. He announces over his pa, if the driver of the white pickup will move, I can push the rover out of the way! I didn't want to go set him staright so I just got in and drove away. I think I'll write a letter to the editor to clear the rover name. Hopefully, me and rover will be featured in the paper as good samaritans rescuing the toyota but I doubt it. john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Mar 10 19:54:38 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 19:54:38 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Lucas Aglow > OK,Craig says Lucas isnt too bad,Charlie disagrees. > So,what actually *is* Lucas in terms of bits. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > There aint any more of Uncle Joe *on* the beast.Fine,if it > was petrol,the distributor would be as well. Don't look now, but those Girling brake cylinders.....they're Lucas too (a recent set I bought from RN said "Joe Lucas-do ya trust me?" right on 'em and upon inquiry I was told "Lucas=Girling") > I mean you dont see too many BMW cars at off road events,or > chugging round farmyards,covered in corrosive cow crap,wiring > and all. Gretchen (God rest her soul) made it _to_ the OVLR Bday party, she was frequently seen toting tack and chasing ponies, and although never spattered in cow crap, she did see her share of horsie poop. That count?? > possesses a wiring diagram I can understand.And considering my state > of electrical incompetance that is no mean feat.Have you seen what > passes for a wiring diagram for modern cars? here,here. rd/nigel (we and joe are like this.....no this.....no .....) From "Michael H. Ramage" Fri Mar 10 19:04:52 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 19:04:52 -0600 (CST) From: "Michael H. Ramage" Subject: Def 110: USA If anyone is interested, there's a '93 110 for sale in Minneapolis, at Carousel (612) 544 9591. FWIW, Michael From sohearn@InterServ.Com Fri Mar 10 17:51:02 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 95 17:51:02 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: D90 driveline noises ----------------------------- Russ writes: >While driving some of the unique roads in the Moab UT. area I noticed >a lot of play in the D-90 drive train. While rock climbing I would get [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >grinding, or clanking. I can imagine the fun I will have at the >porshe audi dealer trying to explain this problem. The D90 doesn't have the tightest driveline of any 4WD I've driven but I assume this is due to it having full-time 4WD with a non-viscous center diff plus being a Rover. This is amplified in low range. At any rate I've never had this problem (except when the damn parking brake won't release all the way but that's another problem)and I've driven my D90 a fair amount (offroad that is). My initial thought is that you may have had the center diff locked while driving on large areas of rock which I believe Moab is famous for. This would cause the driveline to "wind up" resulting in shuddering and steering wheel kick whenever the tires could slip to relieve the wind-up. Rock covered with a thin layer of dirt is ok or even several truck lengths of clean rock are ok. Just no turning or "lengthy" driving on clean rock. Eventually something will break. If your center diff wasn't locked I can only suggest that the traction was marginal and wheel slip/spin was impending. Otherwise I'm clueless. Let me know if you find out what it was. ----------------------- Leslie, the winch sounds great; all I need now is a PTO :( - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Mar 10 21:45:49 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 21:45:49 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: RN winternewsletter Russell Reports... > And.....yet another description of the fun and frolic had at > this past fall's Mid Atlantic ROAV event.....the one Dixon, ............snip........... > A shot of Sandy Grice is in there....I had him pegged for an > older fart but not so... Nawwww... Sandy isn't much older than me... or maybe he's younger than me.. I dunno... He looks about my age... Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Mar 10 21:46:25 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 21:46:25 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: diff lock info Seymour, Gareth - Technician asks... > who will ship to the UK. Also a price for ARB airlockers would be of > interest. Anyone visiting south Wales can give me a shout for some mighty > fine offroading. Rovers North in Vermont,US (phone# 802-879-0032) has ARB kits. Prices in thier last catalog are in US$ : Compressor - $225.00 - will handle front and rear Diff lock kit - $629.00 Salisbury diff lock kit - $680.00 Def.90 diff lock kit - $680.00 Sounds like a lot of bucks to me.. you can probably find them cheaper. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Mar 10 21:46:46 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 21:46:46 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: MORE Nat. Geo. Rovers John R. Benham reports on Rovers in publications.... > But for my money, the May, 1992 issue of PLAYBOY magazine has a > nicely appointed 88 canvas top displayed on pages 118 and 119. > Perhaps many of the LRO's missed this one due to the upstaging of the > fine cargo the Rover is carrying! Definetely suitable for framing! Old news, John... A few months back a group of fellow netters were vying for a copy of said Playboy issue that someone had for sale... (They all really wanted to see how to rig the canvas top...) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 10 95 Mar EST 1921 Date: 10 Mar 95 21:55:33 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: MIG welding David, to weld steel use co2, if you weld a lot you will require a heater as co2 freezes as it expands and flow stops. The use of 5% or 10% argon in the co obviates the need for this and gives a better weld bead. To weld aliminium you should use either argon ( 100%) or for more specialist work you can use helium, it is cheaper in some parts of the world. The pure argon can be used on steel but it gives a different bead shape and is generally more expensive. It is also advisable to match the filler rod to the material you are welding, there are several different silicon levels available in aluminium wire Clayton LR offer a chamois leather gaiter kit to cover your balls ( swivel housings ) they are a good extra to fit to a new vehicle to protect the chrome surface and extend seal life. I really appreciated the advise for activities for limeys and yanks whilst the French sleep on the job. ( is it OK to call em frogs over here ) Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile.. From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Mar 10 23:46:32 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 23:46:32 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Side Glances, Down Under Fellow Rovers of the Net, I have been a regular reader of Road & Track magazine for about 35 years (yeah, I'm an old fart). A few years back (probably about 12 or 15) a new columnist was added to the editorial staff, Peter Egan, whose column is called "Side Glances." I read it for a while but found it usually dealt with subjects no longer dear to my heart (though they once were) like the glory days of club racing and such. But this month's column (April issue) definitely caught my eye and I had to read it. Why? Well, the soft-color illustration was of an old Land-Rover 88 tooling down a tree-lined lane. The article is charming, very kind to Land-Rovers and admiring of Australia and New Zealand and the colorful old British autos seen there, especially Land-Rovers: Ah, yes, Land Rovers. Lots of them. Every sheep rancher between Auckland and Christchurch seemed to have one; funky, well-used and mud-spattered. ... Their Land Rover chugged up steep toat paths effortlessly, while From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Mar 11 03:24:21 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 03:24:21 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr jory comments on Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: > crafted. not to mention which, you managed to post one of the most sexist > and offensive pieces of drivel i've yet seen on the rover mailing list > (and that's saying something). Aww Jory... go sit in your oil-bath air cleaner for a while! Pierre's bit of drivel was great! I bet you wished it was you doing the instruction (didn't we all!!) "sexist and offensive"??? Who cares.. I laughed my butt off! Cheers Mike From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Sat Mar 11 05:45:12 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 05:45:12 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Series III fuel sender. My '73 Series III runs out of gas shortly before the guage tells me that I'm about to be walking. Two questions: (1) Could I remove the sending unit and slightly bend the float wire up (or down?) so that it erred to my benefit (ie: showing empty before it actually is) ? (2) I understand the diesel versions have a low fuel (reserve) warning light. Could I retrofit a diesel sending unit and install a light for same on the dash? Thanks all. Rick From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Sat Mar 11 05:45:14 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 05:45:14 -0500 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Retractable Belts. Any ideas on retractable seat belts for a Series III that utilizes the existing mounts and doesn't look 'added on' or JC Whitneyish? Seat belts are the law here and I believe in them anyway, but the stock belts are a hassle. From jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Sat Mar 11 03:32:28 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 03:32:28 -0800 From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr >jory comments on Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: >> congratulations pierre. your writing style is vivid and passably well [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Cheers >Mike I hate it when I am supposed to "lighten up" instead of defending basic human rights. Like, gosh those nigger jokes sure are funny... just becausde they're based on hundreds of years of slavery and oppression doesn't mean you should be a killjoy. Did you hear the one about the jews in the gas chambers... oh and those serbs and theiur racial cleansing and mass rape.... now THAT'S humor! The sort of sexist, objectifying, testosterone laden shit in Pierre's "drivel" is truly hurtful. To be perfectly honest, while I was reading it, I kept trying to convince myself that it was some sort of parody, instead of facing the fact that people in an ad hoc community to which I belong could be such total fuckers. Perhaps the worst aspect of your response if your attempt to dismiss any perspective which clashes with your own humorous misogynist reading of Pierre's story. Maybe you truly found it funny. Maybe you were actually oblivious to the blatant sexism. Please don't then assume that everyone else shared your lack of clue and "laughed their butt off", and wished to be in pierre's place. I did neither, anmd I pray others had the same response. However, what I really believe is that you didn't think Pierre's story was funny despite being sexist and offensive. You thought it was funny *because* it was sexist and offensive. That's why you're scum. -jory From Charlie Wright Sat Mar 11 13:29:18 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 13:29:18 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: Series III fuel sender. Yes, you can bend the wire. If you bend it so the float is 'higher' (bend the rod up) you'll get a lower reading (the angle of the arm will be lower with the same fuel level), which is what you want. You could also remember where it runs out or mark it on the dial for a less professional solution... I have a diesel unit (on a diesel). If the bolt pattern is the same (should be), I don't know why it wouldn't fit. It has two spade connectors at the top. One for the meter and one for the light. They are seperate senders too, as my meter died and the fuel light kept working. I replaced the unit (from Craddock) for 22 pounds last week... The Land Rover thanked me by developing a leak in the fuel tank, so it still reads zero most of the time... arghhhh charlie C. R. Wright Dept. of Genetics +44 (0)1223 333970 telephone Univ. of Cambridge +44 (0)1223 333992 telefax Downing Street, Cambs. cw117@mole.bio.cam.ac.uk CB2 3EH, England From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Sat Mar 11 08:00:10 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 08:00:10 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instruction, etc Unkle Mike responded: > >Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: > >--------------------------------------------------- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > that's saying something). > -jory Yes,I liked it too! Cheers Mike Rooth > >Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: I disagree with Unkle Mike. It was very sexist and offensive. Oh, uh, Pierre, by the way, how does one apply for an instructor's position in this driving school? ------------------------ Someone asked (couldn't tell who from the header): > >Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: I've recently installed a brand new Fairey (Superwinch) overdrive on my Series III. Installation went flawlessly. Overdrive works smoothly and correctly but it has a higher pitched and more noticeable whine (than the regular trans.) at highway speeds and upon decceleration from highway speeds. Is this to be expected? > >Pierre's introduction to offroad tuition: Yup ------------------------ Rick asked: >(1) Could I remove the sending unit and slightly bend the float wire up (or >down?) so that it erred to my benefit (ie: showing empty before it actually >is) ? Yes. And it's easy to get at. Just make sure after you bend it that it doesn't contact the draw tube, and if the gasket is old/ripped, replace it or it'll leak when you fill it. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From Sanna@aol.com Sat Mar 11 09:24:09 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 09:24:09 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Hollywood Rovers Just saw Wolf last night. Not only Michelle Pfieffer beautiful and drives a Range Rover, but she's a WEREWOLF!! AhhhWooooooooooo Ow Ow AhhhWoooooooooooo!! From Charlie Wright Sat Mar 11 14:27:48 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 1995 14:27:48 +0001 (GMT) From: Charlie Wright Subject: Re: An Introduction to Offroad Instr Jory, if it doesn't amuse you, you can take your self-righteousness elsewhere and unsubscribe. Whether Pierre amused me or not, he can, for now and I hope forever, express what he wishes how he wishes, as long as it does not cause harm to anyone or infringe their rights. You have a right not to read it as surely as he has the right to type it. While it may cause offense, it does NOT in any way affect your basic human rights or those of the bawdy lasses in the story. If I take your overbearing and sanctimonious logic to its academic conclusions, it would suggest stopping this sort of expression, any related writing or speech, and books/pamphlets/thesis/art modern and historical that represent any idea you feel unfair, slanted, or otherwise biased or... dare I say... contra your own high-minded ideals. I didn't laugh my butt off, but I can picture the scene. I've seen those students on the streets of Cambridge. These people exist. It made me snicker.... s'pose I'm scum. This is a voluntary group, and if you don't like the tone and object to your fellow members, you have the right to leave, and it sounds like it would be better if you did. Now before this gets any nastier, back to my offensive comments about Joe Lucas... I hope I haven't infringed his (copy)rights.. Charlie My boorish manner