From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 1 9:04:05 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 9:04:05 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Land Rovers in tv drama Tod, Not guilty milord.Twasnt me who said it wasnt worth cataloging Land Rovers on film.Honest! Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 1 9:15:40 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 9:15:40 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: LRs on Wings of Eagles Yep,I've read the book (yawn).Range Rovers,definitely.There a picture of them.The way they got them was clever.A loyal Iranian went round with stickers finding parked Range Rovers.The stickers read"If you want to sell this,telephone this number". They were eventually left as "gifts" for the border guards.Wonder how one becomes a border guard?.... Cheers Mike Rooth From ShaunC8958@aol.com Wed Feb 1 08:17:48 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 08:17:48 -0500 From: ShaunC8958@aol.com Subject: Wings of Eagles I didn't read the Ken Follett book--I heard it on tape several years ago during a long drive somewhere. I distinctly remember it was Range Rovers, not Land Rovers, that Perot chose for their trek across the desert. I seem to recall they bought five for $20,000 a piece (this was nearly 20 years ago) because they were "the best four-wheel-drives in the world." I rembered that line when I had the chance to buy mine last year... Shaun Carrigan '88 RR From "David McKain" Wed Feb 1 09:03:06 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:03:06 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: New Subscriber Greetings and Salutations I recently entered the world of Land Rover ownership by purchasing a '66 Series IIA 88" hard top. Currently, the vehicle is reduced to bits and pieces for body/frame work. A few of my co-workers are current and former LR owners from South Africa and have been a great help in fixing the engine, gearbox, and in general figuring out where everything goes. Initial faults with the vehicle were a broken cam follower (the last engine rebuilder didn't check to see if the pushrod was squarely in the follower socket), broken bushing in gearbox (kept jumping out of 3rd gear when engine braking), various electrical problems and rust. Because the last owner put a camo black-green paint job on (by hand) I was forced to strip the body down to bare aluminum and treat body surfaces with dupont 225S and 226S before priming. The local Napa store mixed a light green and dark green from color charts from '66. The dark green (Arden Green) is a bit darker than I had thought but looks nice. I'm still staring at a major cash setback on all of the body seals and window channels (all that was left was a little felt and a lot of green fungus and moss). I have two major questions: 1) The exhaust doughnut is partially eaten away although the rest of the exhaust is fairly new. Is there any way of fixing/replacing the doughnut for less than the cost of a new front exhaust piece ($55-60 US) and 2) My insurance agency will not give comprehensive coverage for my LR. When I finish the car after putting in hundreds of hours and a load of cash, I'd like to know how much the guy in the BMW (ha, ha) talking on is car phone when he broadsided me will have to cough up to fix/replace the vehicle (Officer, I think my neck hurts : translation - I didn't ever think I could afford that new Defender 90 I had my eyes on until now). In closing, I'd like to say that it's nice to know that if I run into any difficulties along the way that there is a place like this where I can get much needed information. From "David McKain" Wed Feb 1 09:36:39 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:36:39 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: get lro-digest faq.complete David McKain 540 Burroughs St. Morgantown, WV 26505 USA From Jimmy Patrick Wed Feb 1 09:50:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:50:23 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: 10 a penny? Mike said: >Discos are ten a penny here. Mike, I have a jar full up with pennies. I'll send you one penny, you send me 10 Discoveries. Thanks. This sounds even a better deal than those questionable Defenders in lots of 25 in the states. This isn't a scam is it? The penny is in the mail. Cheers! jimmy patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Steven M Denis Wed Feb 1 11:44:22 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:44:22 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: New Subscriber That "do-nut" is part of the pipe...and (drawing on *vast* sad experiences) any repairs are unlikley to be worth the time and effort....Just how many times *DO* you want to take that pipe off and on?...believe me...if there was a way to save a buck!.......... steve........ "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Wed Feb 1 17:04:11 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 17:04:11 GMT From: rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Subject: Message from an Irish Reupblic based LRO --========================_6848204==_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Enclosed is one attachment for the LRO daily digest. --========================_6848204==_ Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="internet_first_letter" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="internet_first_letter" (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) :&@PZG'9bEQ9d)'CTFR0d)'aPG(4PFJ"A4%*1690A4!%!!!!-!!!!!!"a8[ih!#- !!!!!!!!%!!!C!!!!!!!!!!!"!!!!"*8!!!Z8!!!!!!!!!j8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!S!!"S!!!S!!"S!!!SD!!!!!!SD!!!!!!SD!!i!!!SS!") !!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!!!!!Sk!!S!!!T%!!S!!!T1!!!!!!T1!"S!!!TS!(J !!!Sk!!!!!!VJ!#!!!!X!!"N!!!X`!#S!!!YD!!!!!!SD!!!!!3!"!!!,-!!!!!! ,'3!A!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,@J!k!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!! ,-!!!!!!,-!!!!!"86cSJ3@aX)%CPE'a[Gb"-B@jN)&*[GQ9b)#"&ER4SGA0TBA0 dFb"AEh*XC(GTC'8JGfK[)'KKF("PEL"dEb"LC5"[EL"dD'8J5@jdCA*ZCA30$8C 56ddk)&4[ERNJ6(9MDhGTE'`X)&*PF(9LE'PM)'pQ)%PbC@aKEQ3Z$3e%C@&b)%& XE#`0$8TeFh3JB5"cD'pbG#"ZEh4P)(4[)(0KH5"dD'&d)%NJB@dJFQ9cF'pZFfP LE'8JCQpb)(0PG(4TEQFJGA!JG'KP)#KQDA*cG#"PGQ9b)'&dG'9YF(3T)%PbDA0 S)%aKEQ3J8QpfCA)J6hGZCA)RFb!Q)%9ZG'KeFfPKFh4c)%0XG@)JG'KKG#"MBA4 PFR-JCQpb)'&XE#"TER4PFQ9cG'9N)("PFR0[ER-JEfBJFh9MD#"KEQ3JG'KP)'0 XG@)JBf&dCA*c)'C[FL"dD'8JGfK[E'8JEfBJG'KP)&*PF(9LE'PM)'pQ)%PbC@a KEQ3Z$3e*)(G[G@aN)'*P)'KKF("j)(4[)'KPBA)JCR*[E5"KERP[EQ8JGfK[)(G TFfKPFb"dEb"MEfjfCA*cC5"-8LGc)(GTG'JJE@8JB@jN)'ej)'CPE'a[Gb"ME(9 L)'ePE@*PFR-Z$3eAC5"KFQ8JEh*RB@jTFfPZCb"cCACPFQ&X)'9fC@jdFb"NGA* TEQFJ-6Nj05`J)%NJGfPXE#"VC@9`)(P[G5"KE'`JF'pcG'9N)'&LEh9d)(4SC@d JBA3JFf9XC@0dC@3JD@jdCA*fB@ac)(4SFQpeCfK[GA3JG'KP)(PPBA)Z$3e-Efp VD@jR)'C[FRGKFQ3JG'mJD'9KFQPZCb"QFQpY)(P[G5%K$3eP,@eKD@`k)'eKFQX JB@aX)'0[FR*PFh"[EQ4PEQ0P)'C[FL!JEANJBA4dC@jdD@pZ)$SJGQPK)(*XG@0 VGfaX3'eKD@`ZG'0N,QPP$3e8C@aPF'K[EQ8JE@8JC'PbC@0d)'&d)'K[E@8k)'4 TB@`JH@peFL"TER3Z)'0[C'8JG'KPEL"E-c8cA5!S+$!T-5NJ0$8j)$-e-MBZ$3e AFQPdC5"dEb"YC6SJ9'pZH5"-G@0VGfPXE#`J)$3b)%e[EQ&cG'9bH5"AB@aV,#! J3fa[EQ4KE'YTEL`J)%4eBQaTEL!b-L`J)!d*#3N*#3P5CA"eBQaTBb"[CL"*FQ9 XB@jN,Jd03fKPCA*c)5%0$3*e!2[Cd+52p[2lhXZkQIEJ[jI+VmhST1V+KH')[HE eQiAk`E2[Y-1&qTrhU28!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!V[c[U0l"V*qcp+MHbkl0mZrleX' ML2$eXX(!kB6pmUr5a+h0r1Il`mfXcI,PVG,AUmhST1V+L`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#Zr1qShX'XRl2LXpE,VS6pj[[BeqQ*pZfq`mbRLV2krSEBj`! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,Rlj2[ (ekb,p[1TdX(TRZ2NYp[-TiUclVfAhZcFlU'ba)@5b+(Fp3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Z1$NqpR3T)MKi,I%KD#$i2@qeX( TJ[@KS*+8Y-hklr[6a,f)i+m!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3! !!!58!!!%P3!!"*Mp!2F!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!#J"!!!)B!!!!!"J!"!!3!"3$!!!"!!!!!9)!!!&6!!!"I3!!!Ai !!!')!!!"L3!!!RN!!!*k!!!#h`!!!Z!!!!0J!!!$B3!!!iF!!!1)!!!$e3!!!pB !!!3M!!!%*!!!"'m!!!5+!!!%L`!!"*3!!!59qr[lqr[lp[[aqr(lqr[lqr[lqr[ lqq`!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!3!!!%J@!!2!!!%!!!#)&J!$!!!"!!!!b"B!!` !!!3!!!%J@!!-!"F!!!!$!!!("!!3!!-!#JF!!!!!!!!"!!%!hJ!!!!!!!!19!!) !!!59!!!!!!!!!j83!2rr!!!!!3!!!!!"!!!!"*J!!`!!!3!!!!59!!3!!!!#!!- !"!!1!"!!%J!8!"8!&J!A"!%*d`!-!!!!5!")!!!!!!-J!M$rl2r[!c3#3@3#"AJ $hJ%!!!!"D!&S!!!!!!qJ#[!!!3!!!'3!!3!!!!%!!!!!!!%R$`!"!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!$rR2qV%!3,43!)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!%'J,QJ &S!@J"D!&S!,3!Y"#!!!"!!%!!8)!!!!!!!")!"N3,6T6G(PXC9GbDA4PFL"*53! +!!!!!!!#!!!!!`C(C@jPGQ%!!!!8"94TE@9c`!%"!!!!!j3!!!18!!D!!)!!!!! $P!!!!!!!+!!I!G8#'3!S!"m!qJ)C!$S9D@jdCA*ZCA3JCQPbFh3JE'9dG'9b!!j 5EfGPFL"-G@0VGfPXE!!!$P*[Cf9b)%aeBfYhD@aX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*MU!!! !: --========================_6848204==_-- From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 09:41:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 09:41:41 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Mendo Forest Recon Pt3 Ahem, Well, now, what to do? Actually, in Part 2, I neglected to mention that we had earlier stopped at the foot of the Sylar Springs trail to consider the time and what we would do when we got to Bartlett Springs. Would we turn toward Highway 20 (and home) or on to Letts Lake. Or maybe out to Highway 20 via the longer route over Hough Ridge and around the Indian Valley Reservoir. As you will see when you join us in April, there are so many alluring possibilities... Just as we were about to move on again, out of the mouth of the Sylar Springs trail came a full-sized Ford pickup-load of yahoos, right out of Deliverance with a couple of good ol' boys in front and a couple more (armed with shotguns, casually pointed up into the drizzle), and, of course, the requisite "b'ar dawg" in the back. Hanging off the front bumper was a hitch-mount winch, you know, the kind that you carry in the back until you need it. Appartently they needed it to reduce their approach angle to about 20 degrees. So when we couldn't cross the creek, we started speculating about that trail. Could we? Should we? Of course we knew we shouldn't; although we told ourselves it was not too late, it was. In our hearts we knew it. Was it hard to talk everyone into trying it? No. The opinion was unanimous, "If those yehus could make it, so could we. A cooler head (was that you, Walt?) suggested that, before we turned our tracks onto that trail, we examine their tracks to determine whether they had simply come from somewhere or come and gone. We examined the tracks for some time and discussed it some more finally someone (Vance?) reasoned, hey, we could go check it out faster than discussing it. Silly, huh? But now you know how we managed concensus of eleven brilliant minds... Up the trail we went. Challenging but no problem for such stalwarts as we! Big ol' waterbars, ruts, down trees, lots of brush. Eventually, Vance (now in the lead), Jory, and I ground to a halt. What happened to the rest of them. Vance on the CB (gotta get me another one before the Scouting Outing II). Trouble in paradise; Jim was not making it up the hill. Aw, come on, Jim, you CAN do it. He did, once he found low box (just pull the red handle back, old boy). We all moved ahead again but soon stopped once more. This time, it was the views that stopped us. Now, there were some fine views earlier but you gotta look hard for ones like this. We were atop a ridge which was open meadow, with sweeping views in all directions for many, many miles. Wow. This is what we came here for! Considering how we had often been completely in the clouds, it seems remarkable that now, when we were up so high, the view was clear for miles. On our right, we could see down to Wild Bill Place, from whence we had come, now quite far distant. To the left, miles away and maybe a couple thousand feet below, was a deep valley with a most impressive waterfall. Must go there next time! Wait, stop. Melanie just brought me an envelope from OVLR. Whoa, Dixon, thanks! It's the newletter that I have heard so much about. O.K., O.K., I'll finish this, THEN open it. Grumble, grumble, grumble... Oh, back to the ridge. You have to come and see it, really. Actually, part of what stopped us was that Vance's engine had lately been running on about two cylinders, apparently moisture in the distributor (we'd gone through a *couple* of puddles). He got it running well enough, we all got some fotos, and grudgingly continued on. The trail started falling off fairly rapidly and the scenery changing dramatically, from scattered pine stands and meadows to chemise brush. The soil was different, too, more clay but also more rocks. As the trail started to really drop off, Vance suddenly halted again. I thought more ignition trouble and went to investigate. No. Having started to slide sideways and get squirrelly as the slope became quite steep, he was having second thoughts about continuing. By now it was nearly 4:00 P.M., I think. The decision should really have been instant: Turn back. Not us. Vance, Holly, Jory, and I (is that right) walked (and slid) all the way to the bottom of the grade, maybe a quarter mile or less. Yes, there was yet another creek at the bottom but one we could easily cross. The trail beyond the creek looked alright, as far as we could see. But the steep downslope was quite rutted, had sizeable rocks sticking out (with our oil pans as targets), and other unsavory obstacles. Well, we could surely get down it but could we get back up it? What if, as we by now realized was more than likely, we'd get stopped somewhere farther along? Oh, we probably could all climb it O.K. but someone said he'd sooner spend the night than climb THAT in the dark. Too right. Enough, I said. Hard as it is to accept that we have to go back the same way we came in, that's what we must do. And so we did. Now, you'd figure that if we came all that way with no serious problems, we could just as easily go back, right? Wrong. Mud bath in the dark, in Part 4. Granville Pool, Redwood Valley, CA "Road-I-Land-Rovers" P.S. This message was delayed because of problems with the mail host at Pacific Internet. Sorry for this and for any mail that's getting bounced back to you. Apparently my mail is going to be iffy for about a week, Pacific waiting for a new disk, unless he can get a backup in there for the interim. If you have trouble sending me mail, please send it to my alternate e-mail address: Granville_Pool@RedwoodFN.org Thanks, Gran From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Feb 1 18:44:50 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 18:44:50 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Sliding Hi There's been some discussion on the list about braking without sliding. This morning i stopped by at the grocer's to get some coffee to take to work. I didn't want to park at the small parking lot, - if someone else parked i wouldn't be able to get out (109"). So i backed up and turned the rear to a wall where i could park without being in the way of others. The car was hardly moving but the surface was ice with water on top. BANG! The light "cages" and the trailerhook saved the rear lights. But i'll have to get new nets. The nets was pressed against the lights and stopped 0.000001 mm (approx) from the glasses. Another thing. The city busses has a better turning ratio than Aurens. Except when it's snowing. On my worn tires i turn the wheels all the way and hit the accellerator then suddenly lift my foot. The car will start to turn. When it's pointing in the right direction i press the pedal and let got of the steering wheel. The wheels will turn straight immediately and i can proceed. Slow motion powersliding is FUN!. But it won't improve the fuel economy!! Have FUN. sv/aurens From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Feb 01 09:03:13 1995 Date: Wed, 01 Feb 1995 09:03:13 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Land Rover in adverts So far my favorite advert is a photocopy of one that I just got in the mail from my parents. (And no I don't know, offhand, where they got it). The photo is a US Defender 90 in the woods/jungle. The large font title under the picture is "What to drive in places where your're the food" The advert ends with: "While it's not exactly the least expensive 4x4, the Defender offeres you that invaluable old English option. To be or not to be." -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 11:17:46 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 11:17:46 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Rover Turbine Roy, You asked about the history of the Rover Turbine. Somewhere I've got some articles on this car. I'll try to remember where and get back to you. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 13:10:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 13:10:23 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Rovers on TV If someone has already mentioned it, I appologize for bringing it up again. On the Loejoy Mysteries series on the A&E cable channel (my favorite show on telly right now), Lovejoy's sortagirlfriend Lady Jane Felsham drives a Range Rover most of the time (Ardennes Green). There are often other Land-Rovers shown. Bad guy in a recent episode drove a Discovery. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 01 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 01 Feb 95 17:22:49 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Rover Gas Turbines The sons f the rover gt are still around today, in the sixties the Alvis Co, linked to Rover inthe BL days, made the gas turbines, in the late sixties they sold the design / manufacturing rights to a company called Rotax Aircraft Eqipment, a company that I worked for at the time, this company was a subsidiary of our friend JOE, later became known as Lucas Aerospace Limited. They marketed a single shaft 60 hp engine for universities and colleges to demonstate heat engines etc and dyno's, specific fuel consumption and all that. this engine was also used as an auxiliary power unit on the cross channel hovercrafts. They also marketed a twin shaft 150 hp engine which was used as an auxiliary power unit in the Nimrod aircraft. A futher development was the gas turbine engine starter for the Pegasus engine in the Harrier jump jet which needs to be able to operate in isolated places. A 75 hp version, It was on this particular ptoduct that I first visited the US in 1978 when we installed a starter in the Harrier AV8 B aircraft that was built by Mcdonnell Douglas in St Louis Mo. These engines are still built today by Uncle Joe. Back in the UK I have some original sales brochures from Rover for the engines and further technical details if anyone wants more info. The above is from my memory which is suffering from the past twenty years of working in the aluminium business, the dates are approximate. Regards Bill leacock Limey in Exile From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 1 17:53:22 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 17:53:22 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Rovers on TV On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, Granville Pool wrote: > If someone has already mentioned it, I appologize for bringing it up again. > On the Loejoy Mysteries series on the A&E cable channel (my favorite show on > telly right now), Lovejoy's sortagirlfriend Lady Jane Felsham drives a Range > Rover most of the time (Ardennes Green). There are often other Land-Rovers > shown. Bad guy in a recent episode drove a Discovery. If I recall correctly, Lady Jane's Range Rover is a Vogue SE. With the front spoiler etc. it was a very rare RR in the UK at the time. Last weeks episode had a 127 with Electrical Board markings on it parked outside his house. Others? Lots besides Dr. Who. The Avengers is another good source as are a great many (too many to list) British television series. From "Russell G. Dushin" Wed Feb 1 19:11:23 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 19:11:23 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Window Sealant Kelly asks: > RE: Window Sealant > Ok. Everyone has probably talked this to death. But now that I have finished [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > I place the sealant in the center of the window channel, or towards one edge > or the other? Me also ponders this question. Nigel leaks from the driver's side window, and the leak hits me dead on the clutch foot (LHD), usually right where the tongue of my shoe enters the shoe (ie the point where water gets your foot wet instantly). For quite some time I just got used to moving my foot around, but I've gotten sick and tired of having Nigel all humidified after a storm....so a week or so ago, after some heavy rains, I decided to remove the trim and try to stop the leak. I only used silicon sealant to patch up and fortify the places where the rubber trim had gone awry (do it Earl!-Schibe, that is). It appeared to me that the trim left may have been "butyl"...a really goooey rubber, but it didn't appear to be rope shaped. It was flattened out somewhat, and there appeared to be the same material but of different shape for the center section. It *may* be that the shape was initially "round like rope" but that with 35+ years of compression under the trim it assumed its current conformation....The RN catalog lists "Sealer for Glass-sold per meter" ($5.70/meter, but this is the 1991 catalog and most prices have actually come down since then, perhaps due to all our bitchin' and an upswing in awareness of the competition). I would suggest that what you have may be the correct stuff, or near enough. I'd try to place it around the edge of all of the glass, in between the edge and the metal framing where ever possible. You may find difficulty getting your trim back on, especially if 1/4" turns out to be too thick, as I even had some minor problems, even with a spritz of silicon. But, perhaps someone who has actually completed a *total* resto might have some better advice. rd/nige From Steven M Denis Wed Feb 1 21:03:32 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 21:03:32 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Window Sealant The correct windscreen sealant is a roll of *flat* rubbery tape that is more or less sticky.(there are *2* versions it seems) and it is folded over the glass and therefore seals both the glass-to-metal seams...this is very important as glass does *not* have a sense of humor....if one uses the round "tape" on both sides of the glass, the pressure is too great and the screen cracks.....if you install it on one side only, the metal to glass seam causes the screem to break....gawd what a pain! I'm just *guessing* all this....*I* would never ever actually *break* a windscreen...(liar liar liar liar liar!) Pay the 7.50per......otherwise cries of anguish will fill the night..... steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From sohearn@InterServ.Com Wed Feb 1 18:38:49 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 18:38:49 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Defender 90 Questions Pierce wonders about the 90: Steel wheels Never seen 'em except in the sales literature I used to have (sorry). I'm sure you can get 'em. Probably through a parts outlet after you've paid for the alloys. They have five large spokes and are not unlike some Italian sports car rims. Spare on hood Seen Tdi's in England with 'em so it should only be a matter of parts (mount and supports?). Insurance No problem. Premium seems proportional to sales price. Actually better since with State Farm you seem to pay the same whether it's stripped or loaded. Used Defender's Some others on the list have mentioned seeing ads and I heard of one second- hand but otherwise with only 1468 in 1994 they're going to be relatively hard to come across. 7500 miles later Doing fine. Other than a few glitches the only headache has been a parking brake that just loves to catch the drum. Right now it's backed off pretty far. I think the dealer's going to get an opportunity to check it out real close not to mention I don't think they know what a fender cover is. Hope this is useful! - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Wed Feb 1 19:55:41 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 95 19:55:41 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: D90 bonnet tire mount There is a genuine parts mounting kit for the D90/D110 bonnet. No problem. Chris Velonis put it on his 110 over a year ago w/no problems. UK and abroad can get it at their local emporiums - North America can obtain from RN or other parts houses - not dealer available at this time. We've not received a single D90 at the dealership w/steel wheels. Yes, they are same as UK-spec. One problem was that the wheels were delayed due to DOT approval! Everything was sent in as alloys since they were already approved for Range Rover. The steel wheels are not the classic solid steel wheels of Series cars. They are (my opinion) rather hideous looking slotted steel rims which degrade the overall appearance of the D90. I think the alloys are a much smarter rim and have held up (two winters) around here at least quite well. But, beauty is in the eye... Good luck! Jim Roverheadus defenderonium amazonius From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:26:43 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:26:43 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Land Rovers in Movies Kieth tells of lions and Land Rovers... > There's an old British technicolour movie from around 1955 called > "Simba" - - basically an action feature to do with the Mau-Mau in > colonial Kenya. > More to the point, there's lots of Series 1's -- at one stage a > lion jumps into an open-topped SWB to say howzit to the hero behind Here's another oldie... "Clarence the Cross-eyed Lion" (Disney??) My favorite scene has Clarence "driving" an open-top SerI (or II.. I don't remember). The Rover goes right through some couple's safari campsite. The wife exclaims "Wasn't that a lion driving that jeep?" and the husband, very proper British, sitting in a canvas chair, smoking his pipe and reading the paper, looks up for a moment and says "It was a Land Rover, actually." Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:27:19 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:27:19 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: New Subscriber David.. Well.. another fool.. er, fellow has joined the ranks! Welcome! A finer bunch of madmen cannot be found anywhere else! As to your insurance question. You may want to try an appraiser for an "official" value. As to insurance, you might want to consider an antique car policy. It's cheap, and you can insure the vehicle up to whatever amount you want. There are drawbacks however. Most policies have limitations on how much you can drive. You can probably find appraiser and insurance info in "Hemmings Motor News". If you have never seen it, it's a monthly publication which caters to the old car hobby. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Feb 02 00:26:54 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 00:26:54 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Message from an Irish Reupblic based I think they better cut back on the Harp's... Roger's sending us gibberish! > --========================_6848204==_ > Content-Type: application/mac-binhex40; name="internet_first_letter" [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > (This file must be converted with BinHex 4.0) > :&@PZG'9bEQ9d)'CTFR0d)'aPG(4PFJ"A4%*1690A4!%!!!!-!!!!!!"a8[ih!#- etc, etc Gee Roger.. now I gotta find BinHex..!! Cheers Mike From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Wed Feb 1 22:10:58 1995 Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 22:10:58 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Mendo Forest Recon Pt4 Headin' home: I seem to recall Morgan's saying, "Just a straight shot out of here." Or something to that effect. And, indeed, it did seem that nothing could be simpler. In the daylight. Oh, yeah, it was getting pretty dark by now. The weather channel had said sunset at 5:30 but that's in clear weather and not in the mountains. And we had forgotten just how many of those unmapped and unmarked trails there were. Several times, when we came to an intersection, we would have to stop to study it. Morgan, fortunately, had a very powerful plug-in spotlamp to shine up the roads. Even so, they tend to look pretty different in the dark. Thankfully, Holly had an unerring recall of where we were. It took longer than we bargained for to get out but we didn't actually make any wrong turns. Like Morgan said, just a straight shot. Until. Until we came to a rather long hill that we had gone down earlier without a glitch. Morgan, in the lead, got up just fine. Jim was next and got maybe half way before his Rover slid off to the left and would go no more. The rest of us waited with trepidation at the bottom of the hill while he struggled to gain a foothold. No hope. We all got out and ran (well, no, actually you could ba-a-arely walk on this slippery stuff) up and started pushing. How many pushers can get behind a Land-Rover before you have to push on someone else? About five. We pushed, our feet slid, our shoes being sucked off our feet at each step, while Jim finessed the throttle. "Hey, someone yell at him to turn his wheel to the left, he's plowing with his front tyres!" This for about fifty feet until the slope flattened somewhat and he could gain some headway. Who's next? Each of us tried to get up without help and each got to about the same place (now pretty chewed up) where Jim had slid off. More pushing. Last up was Vance and he got about the least far (road getting more chewed up and snotty with each attempt) and slid off to the RIGHT, into a shallow ditch and almost hard against a high, vertical bank. Now, how in the hell do we get out of this one without a winch? Certainly not by having someone who'd already made it up roll back down and give a tow. Leave him? Naahhh, couldn't do that to a swell fellow like Vance. In the early days of automobiles, it was common for teams of horses to pull them out of the mud. Whinny. Just wrap that snatch strap around the front bumper and each of the end loops can serve as a handle for one or two pullers (ersatz equestrians). And the rest in back as pushers, with one or two pushing with the feet against the bank. This actually worked but was scary, I'll tell you. Morgan and I were pulling on one strap end and Walt on the other (as I recall). I say scary because we were in front, rather close, and no telling when he might break free and suddently lurch forward. Come to think of it, under the circumstances, this was probably wishful thinking. But Walt nearly had his feet right under the front tyre and not much room to jump out of the way. Jump? Not unless you wanted to leave your shoes behind (I very nearly did, once). Eventually, though, we all reassembled at the top of the hill and pressed forward. We were definitely still in the woods but out of the worst of the mud. It continued to be pretty slippery but we didn't have any more hills that long and steep to conquer. The worst now seemed to be the downslopes, at least from where I sat, behind Morgan, watching his rear do a little huFrom rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Thu Feb 2 10:14:25 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 10:14:25 GMT From: rluckwll@otto.tcd.ie (Roger Luckwill) Subject: Repeat letter For those who cannot decode Mac attachments the letter reads: TO: All Fellow Land Rover Enthusiasts Worldwide who happen to be on the Internet FROM: Tony Luckwill, Republic of Ireland. Dear All, Just a short note to say that I am responsible for setting up the (first ever attempt) Irish Land Rover Owner's & Enthusiasts Club that caters for all interested persons of such and the club caters for the whole of the Republic of Ireland. I would be happy to hear from anyone who wishes to converse LR's with me and my fellow club members. We are organising several events during 1995, I will keep you all posted about them at selected intervals throughout the year. Looking forward to hearing from you!! e-mail: mark all correspondence for my attention : via rluckwll@mail.tcd.ie Telephone me direct at home: dial your int. code then [353] ((0)1) 459 3526. Write to me: Tony Luckwill, 42 Monastery Walk, Clondalkin, Dublin 22, Republic of Ireland. Cheers!! Tony From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Thu Feb 2 09:49:08 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:49:08 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Window Sealant > Subject: Re: Window Sealant > The correct windscreen sealant is a roll of *flat* rubbery tape that is none I used black silicone rubber goo stuff (RTV). Just fold the frame down so gravity is your helper. I cut four little spacers from some foam rubber (black) about 1/16" thick. Stick the spacers on the frame, close to the four corners so that they would space the glass away from the frame. Run a nice generous bead of your favorite silcone goo around the frame and spacers. Lay the glass into the goo. Run an other bead around the glass, and screw the retaining stripps into place. Clean up the excess with a wet finger or your tounge or what have you. oooh... yucky sticky. get it a neat as possible before it sets. After it sets up you can trim with a razor blade around the edge. Nice. Mines been in for 12 years like that. It ain't gona leak. CU, bg From jory@org.org (jory bell) Thu Feb 2 08:50:25 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:25 -0800 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: Re: New Subscriber >> ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail >> lamp whilst parallel parking ;) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course > it had buckled that high... :-) I have wire baskets on the reverse lamp (or it would have gone as well) but I've been too cheap to get them for the tail lamps. Alas, it was a pole with which I surgically whacked the yellow tail-lamp. So precisely, that while the lense completely vaporised, the bulb and plastic housing were completely unscathed! go figure... -jory From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Thu Feb 2 11:20:53 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:53 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Jacob's Electronics Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from Jacobs Electronics? They have a gizmo they are selling called the Omnipack that sits between (from my understanding ) your points and the coil. It fires the coil and just uses the points as the trigger. I guess it is sort of like the Crane/Allison unit but you don't get the optical trigger. Your points in this system are supposed to last 5 or 6 times longer (this is one claim among the many I have heard from them). I do like the fact that you keep the points which seems to be in keeping with the simple mechanical nature of the truck and with the way the wiring setup is if the Jacobs thinged failed you could just switch a few wired and be back to stock. I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them. Best- Greg PS - Is there a general consensus on electric cooling fans? Do they do anything for performance/economy or are they just a not worth it? ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Greg Hiner (512) 475-7243 Computer Support hiner@mail.utexas.edu Garrison Hall 318 University of Texas at Austin Austin, TX 78712 From jory@org.org (jory bell) Thu Feb 2 08:50:21 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:50:21 -0800 From: jory@org.org (jory bell) Subject: those new 110's I've heard a whole new set of "info" on these from non-rover net surfers i know. they claim these vehicles were donated by the british government to "desert slaughter" (err, i mean storm) and that they are in crates sans wheel, fluids, etc. Someone somewhere said they need about $3500 in work/parts to be mobile. A couple people offered to send me their archives of info on these (I politely declined), and at least one guy i know is supposedly part of a group trying to buy a lot of 25. My interest is, shall we say, somehwhat tempered by my better judgment ;) -jory >Subject: those new 110's >From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >Or is is that you guys were just too embarassed to tell us that you got >suckered. From Jimmy Patrick Thu Feb 2 11:20:03 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 11:20:03 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: lro ftp site lro netters, Is the ftp site gone? I looked for Ray Harder's ftp site of the lro-digests and I can no longer get in as anonymous. I also asked Majordomo who was subscribed to lro and Ray is not on the list any more (as far as I can tell--are you out there Ray??) I have a machine where we can put the old digests if lulu is no longer available. Does anyone else have a load of old digests? I have all of 93 on my system here. Does anyone care to have them archived? Jimmy Patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Thu Feb 02 10:39:05 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 10:39:05 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Rover/BRM Racer I've tried posting several messages directly to Roy in the Rockies, but each time they get bounced back as "user unknown". This happens whether the mail reader does the addressing or I do it...so Roy, this cuppa JP5 is for you.... The Rover/BRM turbine race car was developed for the 1965 LeMans race. The first Graham Robson book shows it in a very Rover-like pose...the bonnet up and several engineer-types peering into the engine bay. More interesting is the transporter used to haul the vehicle to the track. It's a forward control (and in 1965, one of the very first) with a special "kneeling" suspension in the back. With the rear axle removed, the load bed could be lowered almost to ground level so the car could be rolled up easily into the back. And while I've got your attention, I've replaced or refitted all the glass using the butyl "rope" stuff. More appropriately, it is a "tape" and get the thinnest stuff available - 1/16" thick by about 1/4" wide. For the windscreen, the stuff needs to be applied to inner and outer surfaces, not the edges. When you do it right, the edges of the glass won't contact the frame anywhere...not even at the bottom (use wooden shims to hold in place temporarily). Same holds true for the fixed glass in the front doors, but here only the outside gets the butyl. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "DAVE MCKAIN" Thu Feb 2 08:34:38 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:34:38 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Land Rover Turbines I have been notified that one of the turbine engines used for LR's was donated to someone in SA who is no longer there and currently resides in some sort of museum. Sorry that the facts are sketchy but the info is second hand. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From "DAVE MCKAIN" Thu Feb 2 08:46:18 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:46:18 EDT From: "DAVE MCKAIN" Subject: Head Gaskets I spoke to the gentleman at British Pacific about the potential cooling problems with recently supplied 2.25 liter petrol head gaskets (part # RTC3335). I was told that the gasket missing the coolant ports from cyl's 2, 3 and 4 has a grey composite surface towards the head while the proper head gasket has a brown surface. I checked the one I just installed (from the small portion of the gasket protruding from under the front of the head) and, luckily, it was the proper gasket. BP has contacted Land Rover but has yet to recieve any information. I purchased this head gasket 7 Dec 94. I would still like to get some more information before I thrash the vehicle this May so if anyone knows anything more about these head gaskets, please drop me a message. David McKain mckain@faculty.coe.wvu.edu 540 Burroughs St. (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV 26505 USA 1966 Ser IIA Petrol From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 02 Feb 95 08:51:30 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Clarence the Cross-eyed Lion Folks: Does anyone have a copy of Clarence the cross-eyed lion? I'd love to see it. I'll swap a copy of Crack in the World (which is also loaded with Land Rovers). Thanks for all the answers on the D90. There is a very enthusiastic gentleman out in Reno who is interested in the Sgt Major and who I think will give it a great home, so I am getting rather excited about the prospect of a D90 in the spring! Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 2 09:11:05 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 09:11:05 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: New Subscriber On Wed, 1 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote: > ps: too bad it desn't cover mall things, since I just smashed another tail > lamp whilst parallel parking ;) Wire baskets for the tail lamps. Smashed another tail lamp whilst parallel parking? What did you hit? Tail lamps are just a wee bit high when compared to the average Nissan or Honda, unless of course it had buckled that high... :-) Rgds, From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 02 Feb 95 09:02:12 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Trailer Bargains Folks: As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my problems! Over Christmas, I bought a U.S. Military trailer built for M-151 and surplused when the military switched to Hummers. These trailers are incredible and are generally available for 100-400 dollars in good to excellent shape. The one I bought was totally reconditioned by the Marine Corps before they switched to Hummers and they dumped it as surplus for next-to-nothing after totally rebuilding it. I paid $300 for it totally rewired, new bearings, new tires, new springs, new lights, new (albiet crappy) paint, rebuilt brake... everything what they called "arsenal reconditioned." The trailers are incredibly well built, have big, 16" wheels and great springs, parking brakes, drains (with stoppers so you can fill it with water and use as a pool at the rally) etc. They are so well balanced that you can lift the tongue and maneuver them around yourself, too. They are built for off-road use, too, so are at home behind a Rover even in arduous conditions. You need to fit pintle hitch to the rear crossmember in place of the ball, but pintles are easy to get and install. They are even the perfect height for a Land Rover rear crossmember, so they don't cant up or down. They are definitely overengineered and an amazing bargain. When I get my D90 I'll be tearing the trailer down and repainting it to match the D90 (It's Marine camo now) and will look sharp painted up witha black chassis, matching wheels and body-colored box. Anyway you can probably find one of these trailers by contacting the Military Vehicle Preservation Assn, or any number of surplus shops (or looking in Hemmings). There are tons on the market right now as the military has just dumped a lot off them off as surplus. There is a whole yard of them for sale at a surplus shop in Lancaster, OH, btw. Anyway, thought folks would be interested. They are a great addition to an 88 and vastly increase the utility for anyone doing real work with their Rovers! (And I won't have to fill the back of a new 90 with manure, either!) Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 02 12:09:20 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 12:09:20 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) Help! I just got my new Daytimer refill pages, and ordered the "map set". There's a map of the UK but it has a "quadrillion" cities on it, and I can't seem to locate Solihill. (Nor can I spell it, no doubt!) Could someone help me locate it? If you could give me the approximate distance and direction from a major city like London, Liverpool, Birmingham, or Newcastle I'd appreciate it. Also, please help me with my spelling. I just want to "see" where my favorite vehicles are made. Thanks, and if you could respond directly, that too would be appreciated. I'm in the digest mode, and am fairly anxious. (Okay... so I have NO patience!) Thanks again, Dave Brown - '94 Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA. #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Keerock2@aol.com Thu Feb 2 14:28:39 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 14:28:39 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Re: D90 Questions Pierce Reid writes: >But I have some questions on the D90... >1. Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels? none No, I haven't seen a D90 with steel wheels during my extensive digging around looking at Defenders in Southern California in the last few months. However, I did see a used D110 for sale at (believe it or not) the local Porche dealership recently, and it had the steel wheels. They strike me as much more functional than attractive. As I remember, they had the same number of spokes and same general design as the alloys, except that they're much "flatter" than the alloys (not as convex or rounded). BTW, are there really problems with the alloys?? >3. I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is >available (as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90. Pardon my ignorance, but by "pickup cab" do you mean a hard top? LR was supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru the roll cage. You have to have the full safari cage, though. I haven't seen one in person yet, but I did see a picture of one at the dealership and they look just like the soft top, with alpine windows, etc., and are even that same grey color. Reports in the LR section here on America Online complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify that. Also, the top is $2,500. Ouch! Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want). Then they said to buy the rest of the goodies (brush guards, rear seat, side steps, etc.) from Rover North for roughly 50% of what the dealers charge. I'm still trying to find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this. Something to keep in mind. >4. How about insurance? I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif. Keep in mind we have some of the highest rates in the country. For me (25 yrs old, clean record), the best quote was $1,900 per year. That was after arguing with the woman for ten minutes that I was *not* mistaken and that there actually *was* a 1994 vehicle made without ABS and/or airbags. Your results may vary. And WHAT comments about how these things roll were you refering to?? >Thanks, I am sure I'll think up some new questions as I get closer to a >purchase. I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they >are getting along with their vehicles .... I'm in the same situation and therefore should introduce myself. My name is Dean Silliman and I've been on this list for only a few days. I'm here because I'm very seriously considering buying a D90 in the near future. I considered a slightly used LWB, but decided a D90 would be much more fun (if much less practical). Like Mr. Reid, I have many questions. Mostly I'm concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the sad reality if I purchase one. Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they as hearty?) Are they suitable for daily use? These are things hard to gauge by a test drive. I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in power and ability with the D90. By the way, are there any LR clubs here in So Calif? The off-roading here in my mountain community two hours east of L.A. rivals much of that found in Northern Cal (sans Redwoods, of course). Any advice from readers would be greatly appreciated. Everyone should also feel welcome to send direct email to me. And I pledge to make future submissions much shorter. -Dean PS - Did anyone else catch "Car & Driver's" Ten Best/Worst list for 1994? Unfortunately, the D90 filled two of the ten catagories for worst performances of the year: Top speed...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 mph Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA They just don't understand. From William Caloccia Thu Feb 02 14:42:55 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:42:55 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: connectivity.... Real time subscribers may have noticed that the list was unreachable between approximately 12:45 and 18:15 GMT today. This was due to a BT line problem between the London Point-of-Presence of our network provider and Major Domo's location. - Bill From Russell Burns Thu Feb 2 12:02:55 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 12:02:55 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D90 Questions > supposed to start importing hard tops for D90s in January that fit over/thru > the roll cage. You have to have the full safari cage, though. I haven't [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > complain that they're made of "Kiddie-pool plastic" but I have yet to verify > that. Also, the top is $2,500. Ouch! I have one of those kiddy pool tops, and have not had anny issues with it. I have been wondering if you can use the top for a bass boat in the summer.. I am sure it would make a great sled. (the top panel unbolts from the sides. > Speaking of price and parts, more than one Defender owner has suggested that > I buy a very basic D90 (with just A/C and the top I want). Then they said to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > find the number for RN to get a catalog and verify this. Something to keep > in mind. RN 1-802-879-0032 I got my top from them. The price was equel to the dealer, but there nice to deal with, and have a better location. > >4. How about insurance? > I called a few insurance companies here in So. Calif. Keep in mind we have [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > concerened about using the D90 as a day-to-day vehicle, which would be the > sad reality if I purchase one. I use mine to comute 100 mile a day. With the hard top, and lots of foam, and dynomat it is comfortable. I also raised the seat up 1.5 inches. > Are D90s considered "legitimate" by the vintage LR community? (E.g. are they > as hearty?) Are they suitable for daily use? These are things hard to gauge Until we get 20 or so years under our belt, we will always be the weaker sex. but we still can beat on the disco, and R-rover owners together.... > by a test drive. I've been off-roading in our family 1941 WWII-issue Jeep > since I was old enough to reach the clutch and I look forward to moving up in [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] > Interior sound level @ 70 mph...Land Rover Defender 90, 86 dBA > They just don't understand. Mine does 90... Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-Rover From Dixon Kenner Thu Feb 2 15:05:01 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 15:05:01 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Trailer Bargains On 2 Feb 1995, Pierce Reid wrote: > As you 88 owners know, the one limitation of a Land Rover SWB is the amount of > carrying capacity you get in the back... Well the Marine Corps solved all my > problems! The Canadian military dumped these in the summer of last year. Some people got a very good deal through Crown Assets Disposal (All federal good have to go through there) Rgds, PS. At least four with OVLR Ottawa members that I know of. From Mike Fredette Thu Feb 02 12:19:55 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 1995 12:19:55 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: D90 Questions ------- Forwarded Message >Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:19 -0800 >From: Roger Sinasohn >Subject: Re: Land Rover in adverts LRNA had/has a great series of print ads on the back cover of British Car (a great mag, btw). Lots of british humour, and showing the capabilities. One of my favorites: __..--'\ __..--'' | ____....----'''' / | __...---___...---''' | _| _.-'__..--'' ____....---/ | __..--'' | _.-'_.-' ___...---''' _.' |__..--'' () | .___.-' __..--'' ___...---'/ | RR __/ | | _.-' __..--'' ___...'' | () __..-' | | | _.-' _.-' / \__..--' _.==| | / | .-' ..'' | | _() __..---'' | |==' / |__...--' We british have always driven on the wrong side of the road. / ' Anyway, it's *supposed* to be a curving mountain road, (on the right, there) and a Range Rover (on the left) paralleling it on the other (wrong) side of the low barrier. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Simon Hobson Thu Feb 2 18:02:11 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 18:02:11 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Re: Questions for the Defender 90 Community >Questions for the Defender 90 Community: >2. Has anyone tried to fit a hoodmount spare on a D-90? It's a common option and there are strengthening ribs in the panel where the mounting goes. On the downside, it's a right pain of a place to put it. It makes the bonnet^H^H^H^H^H^Hhood very heavy to lift and obstructs vision somewhat. I havn't actually tried it, but I imagine that it takes some strength to lift the spare on and off the bracket - especially if you're in your best suit and the wheels are dirty when you get a flat. >3. I plan on putting a softtop on it, but wondered if a pickup cab is >available >(as for the Series Land Rovers) for winter use on the D90. Pick-ups are a standard option over here in the UK, so the parts should be readily available. Whether they are readily available over there I can't say. >4. How about insurance? Do people find the rates particularly high? Well I found the 90 (2.5 Diesel, non turbo) cheaper to insure than the car (Renault 11, 1721cc Petrol), and I think the tdi is about the same. I can't say what the V8 petrol would be as there aren't many of them over here and I've never considered owning one - did someone mention petrol prices :-( >I would love to hear from the D90 community on how they are getting >along with their vehicles Well I've had mine for 10 months now and I really like it. I need better off-road tyres, and I'm still working out how to get the hydraulic drum winch in the front and the capstan converted to removeable hydraulic status - but when I get that lot sorted I will be having some real off-road fun. Having briefly driven a friends SIII I can honestly say that I'm glad I got the 90 - if only for the power steering ! TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 14:05:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise unhappy. I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud all over the underside of "Gooey". Arrghhhh. But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator. For 22.5 years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess. Ya know, it had never occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable. Amazing. I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-). And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM (auto teller machine)... Gerry 72 88 From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 14:05:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 14:05:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Joe Lucas appreciation Saturday morning as I stood in the rain with Morgan staring at the alternator on my 72 88 I was rather annoyed frustrated and otherwise unhappy. I couldn't go up to Granville's place, meet the crowd, and get mud all over the underside of "Gooey". Arrghhhh. But upon removing the alternator and investigating thing a bit I discovered/realized that this is the original Lucas alternator. For 22.5 years it had never given me any trouble and I had, in return, ignored it. Benign neglect is the appropriate phrase I guess. Ya know, it had never occurred to me that the thing could have been THAT reliable. Amazing. I think that we may hafta revise our consideration of Joe's legacy...maybe he's not the Prince of Darkness but the Prince of diminished light :-). And as for L-R's in ads...there's a bank TV ad of some sort....nicely dressed couple with a Defender 110 ...see the front left fender and open hood only....and they're in a desert like Morocco or something and a little kid yells something that sounds like Eighty-M...and sez the eighty-m will fix everything...the eighty_m turns our to be an ATM (auto teller machine)... Gerry 72 88 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 2 08:59:30 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 08:59:30 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: New Subscriber When I bought my 109", I had to get a classic car loan and full coverage. Part of all this was to get two certified appraisals. I found two guys in the phone book who were affordable and seemed to know what a Land Rover is. Then, I compiled a whole passel of recent classified ads from the Aluminum Workhorse, RN, and ABP newsletters showing how much similar vehicles were selling for. I also explained how much I thought the vehicle was worth, and pointed out significant features and explained how they added to the value of the vehicle. One of the appraisers took pictures of the vehicle (from opposite corners, to show rear & one side, and the front and the other side.) All this added up to two appraisals from, like, professional appraisers that *no one* could argue with. (They were $12,000 and (I think) $10,500.) I showed that to the bank and got the loan; showed it to the insurance agent, and got $12K of insurance. (Of course, they wanted copies of the pictures.) I can get you the the names/addresses/phone numbers of the guys I used, and I could even dig out copies of the appraisals. I also have, hanging on my fridge, an ad from the SF Chronicle listing a 109" for sale for $22K. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Sekerere@aol.com Thu Feb 2 19:29:09 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 19:29:09 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: 1966 Land Rover Tyres Well a couple of questions: My new beast has tyres that look like they are too big for it. They stick out from the body by 1 - 2 inches. They are 31 x 10.50 15LTs. Can anyone tell me whether they are too big for this vehicle (88" SWB)? Also the thing seems to want to veer to either side as I drive it. Almost as if it wants to follow every crack, bump and ripple in the road. Is this a problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? Thanks for all your help Chris W 1966 88" Land Rover "There are cars, there are trucks, there are 4wds, and then there are Land Rovers" From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 17:12:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:12:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: BRM Rover Turbine >From what can recall it was in 1961 thru 1964 that Rover fiddle with their sports racer. This was the same time period that Chrysler produced a bunch of huge Plymouth/Dodge sedans powered by a Turbine and as a test gave or leased the things to assorted mere mortals. Anyway the thing about the Rover Racer was that the chassis and body-work were done by BRM I believe and the internals were Rover. All the reports, as I recall, said the power was terrific and the throttle response abysmal. I know it ran at Le Mans in 1962/1963. I think it was driven by Richie Ginther, a BRM team driver at that time. A Sports Car mag at the time called Sports Car Graphic...later evolved into something else....had a cartoon I loved. The scene is Le Mans, the start....back when, at the flag, the drivers ran across the track, jumped into their cars and blasted off from diagonal parking positions. The first panel showed the drivers sprinting for their rides, second panel showed them taching and then dumping the clutch as they reached about 6K revs and last panel shows all the cars, except the Rover disappearing in the distance. The Rover driver was still sitting there calling out the tach readings....45,000....48,000......52,000. I think it reached power at about 60K. I thought it was cute :-). BTW the thing had a bizarre, for the time appearance. The exhaust stack was a rather squarish affair canted toward the rear at about a 40 degree angle and the remainder of the body was not overly handsome. Gerry 72 88 From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 02 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 02 Feb 95 20:56:54 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: London area RR Goodie Shops >I'm about to leave for Merrie Englande, home of my forefathers, and >wondered if any of you netters could recommend any interesting >places in the London area (accessible by public transport) Hope this doesn't come too late... When in London, the one shop you'll want to visit is 'Autoparts Ltd.', the arguably biggest LR/RR parts centre in London City. They accept credit cards and ship worldwide. They're located at: Unit 21, Zennor Road Trade Establishment, Balham Road, London SW12 0PS, tel. 0181 675 4022. It's not exactly an area you would come through as a tourist. Imagine London, now put your finger on Chelsea - sound familiar? Ok, now move your finger down and south, cross the Thames, go down past and through Battersea and Clapham, and you'll eventually come to Balham. Public transport, either by Underground: Northern Line southbound via Cannon Street, London Bridge etc., get off at Balham. From there it's 10-15 min. walk, go up Balham High Road to the north, take Devonshire Road to the right, when you hit Cavendish Road ask for Zennor Road (it's a bit hidden). Alternatively by railroad via Clapham Junction Southbound. London Bus: Tooting Bec southbound (don't know the number), get off near Balham Station. Good luck! and better brush up your Cockney in case you have to ask for the way... and, er... see that you get back before dark... Have fun, Stefan From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Feb 02 17:58:00 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 17:58:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Miscellany In talk of differential lubricant...In my first L-R I found that the thinker/colder the oil the less it leaked, most of the time anyway. And the hubs got what they needed and didn't pee on the brake drums when the oil was cold and thick. Somebody heard me mention this and suggested I replace the 90W with 140W. I'd never heard of 140W and was skeptical...but on my next trip to the parts store...there it was. So I bought a bunch...and shortly thereafter snapped a half-shaft...sooo... Well even in the warm sunshine of late May in California, the stuff is about the same consistency as peanut butter (or for you in the UK that's about like Guinness Stout ;^) ....no, please don't hit me) and practically had to be applied with a butter knife. Well all summer long every thing ran extremely well and really quietly so I put the stuff in the front end, the transfer, main, ...swivel pin housings, steering box....great stuff I thought. It was mid to late November, at about 10,000 feet in the Sierra when I first began to question the wisdom of this cleverness. After several nights of camping in a couple glorious spots I hiked back to Phred early in the morning. He had about half a foot of snow in the spare on the hood and the remainder of the bodywork was covered with solid ice that looked like snow. Anyway...when I got in and turned the key I thought the battery had died. It wouldn't crank, just sorta groaned. Hmmm I thought...well I'm on a mountain...this shouldn't be a problem...except this was a very remote and untraveled area at that time of year and what if I can't get it to go.....!?!!!. I noticed too, that the steering wheel seemed not to want to move. Then I tried moving the stick into gear. The peanut butter/Guinness had turned to gelatin epoxy!!! It took hours of effort just to get it pointed down hill and in position to go. On about a 10% grade I finally got it rolling fast enough to get it to 4th and to get it to catch before it slowed again. By then the air temps were probably over 50f. Well it seemed like a good idea at the time...and as long as you don't have temps below 50f I'd say the stuff is a moderately good thing to use. And in the LRO celebrity column....about 20 years ago a kid (early 20s) lived a few blocks from me in Sonoma California and had an 88', either a late IIa or III. The kid was Jon Provost, who played on the Lassie television series in the early to late 60's I think. Never really watched that. I understand he now lives in Santa Rosa Calif, sell real estate and I'm told, still owns a series LR. Also interesting ... My mechanic's son just emigrated to Calif...until mid January work for a L-R dealership in Ireland. He was saying very nice things about the RR 4.0S...and that they cost ever more over there!!?! But, he sez, almost none of them have V8s....that's special order only. They nearly all are equipped with a BMW 6 cyl turbo diesel and he loves that engine. Pity we'll never get it. Gerry 72 88 From William Caloccia Thu Feb 02 21:08:44 1995 Date: Thu, 02 Feb 95 21:08:44 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Any RTV's this weekend ? // Two '66 109" for sale in shropshire Any RTV's this weekend in the S/W or midlands ? ---- I called up the man who put this add in Feb LRO*and basically, they've both been in storage for at least a year. He mentioned that he had been in California for a few years, bu never exported them. * pg 223, col2, ad 3 (both the top and bottem ones on pg 223, column 2 are sold already.) Both are 5 dr station watongs. The one offered for 495 GBP is considered the roadable one, requiring the re-fitting of the rear window, replacment rear lenses and a few other odds - he was running it form an external gas tank, it goes, it stops, but it won't be passing MOT to drive it home from there... >From the photograph both rear windows are out as well as the passenger window, with five door and safari top (alpine windows & sheild) it is repoted to have had the body taken off and the chassi repaired as necessary. The other one is also a 66, requires welding on the center of the rear cross member, left hand rear out rigger, and is in a non-running state at the present time, and he was asking 395GBP He said some other yank from the london area was due to look at them saturday morning... I don't think I'll be going up there to check 'em out unless I decide to got to Manchester this w/e. (not likely) From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Feb 2 17:55:50 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 95 17:55:50 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Jacob's Electronics Greg asks: > Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from > Jacobs Electronics? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] > I may be wrong on how this whole thing works but if anybody has some > thoughts or opinions I sure would like to hear them. FWIW, and IMHO, the limiting factor on point life, in my land rover at least, is not the contacts themselves (ie condition thereof) but degree of wear on the arm that rides on the cam. I've bought no fewer than three sets of points from RN in the past three years, all of which were "genuine" plastic crappy points. None were bakalite (the stuff that lasts for years)-it is much harder material. Despite my continued attempts to keep the cam lubed (it is lubed, but...) the points I've had don't last more than a year. All of the brand new ones can achieve the required gap, but only at the very end of the adjustment. Once the arm wears, they are trash. OK, so maybe I have a slightly worn distributor...but the shaft doesn't have that much play in it, and I'm convinced that a brand new set will be more or less the same in any (proper) distributor (I have the old style-round cap type). I'd go with the crane/allison ignition, but I've been told that it does require that you remove the brass post that your points otherwise ride on. If I had another plate, I'd probably go for it (and keep the plate, points, and condensor in the toolbox just in case), but as is I don't want to be dependant upon the dreaded black box. cheers, rd/nige From DCagen@aol.com Thu Feb 2 22:53:11 1995 Date: Thu, 2 Feb 1995 22:53:11 -0500 From: DCagen@aol.com Subject: land vs. range I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and Range Rover two separate companies? And if so, when did they merge? Or just two nameplates of the same company? Where can I get more historical info? Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of these noble vehicals. Thank you. DCagen@aol.com From "T.F. Mills" Fri Feb 3 00:41:34 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 00:41:34 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: land vs. range DCagen writes: < I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the < last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and [ truncated by lro-digester From "Ryan K. Haaland" Fri Feb 3 08:42:56 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 08:42:56 +0000 (WET) From: "Ryan K. Haaland" Subject: SWB Series IIA for sale Notice to UK readers. I, regretfully, must part with my B Reg, 1963 Series IIA SWB. It has a hard top and is in fair condition. I bought it as a project vehicle and, as a DPhil student in my last year here at Oxford, just don't have the time to give it the attention it requires. I'm looking for something a little bit newer to ship back to the states the end of this year. I'd like to get 450 pounds for it. I paid that for it a little over a year ago and have put some hours and new bits into it. If you are interested, e-mail me at haaland@atm.ox.ac.uk. Or, since I'll be working at home this weekend, call me at 0869 244 106. I live in Bicester, Oxfordshire, just off the M40. Thanks! Ryan Haaland From Richard Jones Fri Feb 3 10:04:48 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:04:48 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? DEBROWN@srp.gov writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > SUBJECT: I need a geography lesson.. Where's Solihill? (spelling?) none Solihull ... about 5 minutes from here (sorry that doesn't help you much does it) ... South Birmingham (Birmingham sort of runs into Solihull) ... If you have major roads on your map then the factory is to the West of the A45 (opposite side of the road to Birmingam International Airport), just North of the M42. Hope this helps Rich -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Richard Jones Fri Feb 3 10:24:41 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:24:41 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: land vs. range DCagen@aol.com writes: > I'm a new Rover owner (95 Disco) and have enjoyed reading this list for the > last few weeks. I need a synopsis of Rover history - were Land Rover and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of > these noble vehicals. Range Rover is officially the Land Rover Range Rover, always been part of the same company, be it Rover, British Leyland, Land Rover, Rover Group. There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. > Thank you. > DCagen@aol.com -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Dixon Kenner Fri Feb 3 09:58:20 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:58:20 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: land vs. range On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, Richard Jones wrote: > Range Rover is officially the Land Rover Range Rover, always been part > of the same company, be it Rover, British Leyland, Land Rover, Rover > Group. There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which > probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. British Motor Corp -> \ >--> BLMC -> BL -> Jaguar -> Austin -> Rover British Leyland -> / Rover Rover Group / Triumph Rover - Rover Group -> Land Rover (Purchased by BMW in '94) Rootes/Humber/Sunbeam -> Chrysler Austin & Morris => British Motor Corp. et cetera et cetera.... From bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com (Bruce B. Epps) Fri Feb 03 09:17:31 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 09:17:31 -0600 From: bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com (Bruce B. Epps) Subject: Land Rover info address Whoever, I am trying to subsribe to a Land Rover info exchange address, but am not having any success using the following address given to me: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com Anyone out there that can help me? much thanks, bruce epps bruce@ridyn.hsv.rockwell.com From ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Fri Feb 03 10:02:25 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:02:25 -0500 (EST) From: ROB@HARV-EHS.mhs.harvard.edu Subject: count me in! Hello there, As a new subscriber I thought I'd offer a quick bio...I've read the FAQ and am evaluated the possibility of entering the "owner status" My background with regard to 4 wheel drives is limited to various experiences with (brace yourself) Toyota land cruisers.....Still there? ........Hello? Well, anyway....right know I'm assembling reference material for doing some "homework" so far it looks as though my interests are primarily in a 109..four door possibly....I like to carry alot of "stuff" with me when I travel and I also like to bring lots of friends....I may also investigate the possibility of long slow project car of the 88 variety......(my father in law would flip at a retirement gift of this nature as I think he used to have an 88 many many years ago......) Having read (but not memorized) the FAQ I was wondering why the 6 cylinder engine would reduce the value of a 109?......Are parts less available? Are head corrosion/warpage/burnt valves that problematic/prevalent? I'd welcome input regarding offerings....or any other info. that would help me get started.......I get anxious everytime I see one of those darned land rovers! Rob M Concord, MA USA rob@harv-ehs.mhs.harvard.edu PS I enjoy the Land rover "lore" as well (the moose story) I recall speaking with a woman about five years ago recalling her dad's former land rover....She told me of filleting fish on the fender (wing??? I have alot to learn) when she was a kid. Anyway back to work! From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 03 10:23:12 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 10:23:12 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant Talked to Robert Davis this AM - he's been driving his Mercruiser 109 for about 100 miles now. For those who came in late, Robert has taken a Mercruiser marine engine, basically a 4 cyl. 3.0 liter, long-stroke version of the Chevy "Iron Duke" 151 and fitted it to his 109. Pumping out 140 hp, Robert states that "no one follows him on the Interstate anymore," and at 70 mph, there is still plenty of room on the throttle. Fitment is straightforward, as the engine is *smaller* than the Rover. Exhaust and radiator plumbing were unmodified. The only drawback is that the starter is on the opposite side of the engine and nearly fouls the front prop shaft. Robert plans on replacing it with a solid 1" shaft rather than the tubular Rover unit to gain clearance. Because of the increased torque, he would also reccommend "taller" gearing. I believe he has the 4.7 rearend right now. Robert says its almost scarry how much power the Rover has now. Look for a step-by-step "how to" story in the next issue of "The Gearbox." *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Mike Rooth Fri Feb 3 15:53:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 15:53:33 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant Sandy, No-one follows *me* on the road with my 2.25 diesel,either. They're all in front! Cheers Mike Rooth From "T.F. Mills" Fri Feb 3 09:15:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 09:15:27 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: land vs. range Richard Jones of 5 miles from Solihull writes: < There has been quite a lot of confusion over the years, which < probably had a lot to do with the introduction of the Defender name. On the state side of the pond, there is greater cause for confusion. Americans can be forgiven for thinking Range Rover came first. Land Rover disappeared in 1974 and Range Rover was introduced in 1987, and the marketing wise men (guys?) deliberately avoided making any connection. The outfit here was called Range Rover of North America, and stayed that way until the very recent introduction of Defender and Disco to these shores. Then they were in a real dither whether or not to admit they were all related, and who came first. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Fri Feb 3 11:40:27 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 11:40:27 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello all: Really miss the net hope all is up and running --- because my 109 is There is only one word to describe it, increadable. The Mercruiser 140 runs smooth (espically at idle 600 rpm) and the performance is fantastic. It is (in my opinion & I have first hand knowledge) the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with the 3.9 diffs that are not yet installed. On the down side I'm having a front driveshaft manufactured. The original was too close to the starter and may have made contact while at full rebound. I am excited ! Sandy, Diesel Bob, and Wiley Browning are comming out this weekend to test drive. I even need to install a remote booster (from Mini-Mania) to improve the breaking, which is needed because of the extra power. Extra power - I love that phrase! Well gotta go - could get in trouble for this message (petty people exist in 1995). Miss you all Your friend and fellow enthasist1 R&D From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 03 95 Feb EST 1910 Date: 03 Feb 95 10:15:24 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Holy Smoke - a Weber! I vaguely recall that someone - I think a LR newbie? - complained about a 4-cyl. petrol smoking w/power loss, fitted with a Weber carb... yeah, sounds familiar. Seems no-one has relieved him yet, so maybe I'll take charge. "The Weber" as we know it ... blah blah ... is prone to congestion by dust/ filth/debris/flakes from bad air filter/dusty environment/rusted tank/bad petrol etc., and there even have been accounts of brand new Webers out of the factory box that had metal filings and other manufacture related crap *inside* the float chamber. The Weber, even more so than other carbs, takes unkindly to foreign matter living inside him. Typically at wide throttle openings and high revs some of the kaka floating around in the chamber is sucked up into the needle valve, blocking it and causing a float chamber overflow, which in turn causes - see above - loss of power with camouflage smoke screen. I experienced this phenomenon after returning from Jordania and Egypt where I had ingested megagallons of cheap, filthy, contaminated petrol, something around 75 octanes often laced with diesel/water/camel urine or whatever. A week later the engine (also Weber) began acting up, just like yours. Applied my usual remedy (..."when it stops dead I'll have plenty of time to look at it; as long as it moves... bugger"). Well, after 2-3 weeks the problem disappeared as suddenly as it had started. Suppose all the crap was eventually passed through the valve and fired out through the exaust, or the higher grade petrol helped to dissolve it. So, you'll probably have to take the thing apart and clean out the float chamber, jets and needle valve, preferably with compressed air. Get a new set of gaskets before you do (not the entire overhaul kit!). While you're at it fit an inline fuel filter, the petrol pump filter isn't fine enough for Webers, even _if_ it isn't perforated. Good luck... Stefan From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Fri Feb 3 17:55:18 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:55:18 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: land vs. range > Where can I get more historical info? > Sorry this is so basic. I want to make sure I understand the heritage of >these noble vehicals. Same company - try writing to majordomo@team.net with the text get lro-digest faq.complete It's got various bits of history and a good bibliography... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Steve Firth Fri Feb 3 17:26:13 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 17:26:13 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: land vs. range DCagen@aol.com wrote: >were Land Rover and Range Rover two separate companies? No bless you, Land Rover is the one and only company, with a somewhat tortuous history of state/private ownership. In fact they were always thought of as just plain old "Rover" with Land and Range being different models from the line up. I think we have David Bache (recently deceased) to thank for the looks of our favourite toy. He was responsible for the styling differences between Series I and II Land Rovers and for the distinctive looks of the Range Rover. He was educated as an engineer, not as a stylist. Which may explain why the Land Rover series has evaded the here today, gone tomorrow looks of its competitors. ............................................................................. Firth Consulting Stephen Firth Support Services steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk CIS: 100023,3414 for Biotechnology From "John R. Benham" Fri Feb 3 10:43:15 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 10:43:15 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Tire Size For Chris (sekerere@aol.com) and other LRO's: The tires you have on your Land Rover 88 now (31x10.50 R15LT's) are way too large. Land Rovers already have a terrible turning radius and these tires exasperate this even further. Also, the tires probably stick out wider than the Land Rovers body. This increases the width needed to drive through tight spaces and can also spray small rocks and debris on the Rovers side panels. But the main reason why one should not use tires this size is that Rover's little 2.25L engine is robbed of more power to turn these tire/wheel combinations. The energy needed to overcome the tires centrifugal force is exponentially greater when one increases the overall tire/wheel radius. Normally, the Land Rover with 15" wheels use the 235R15's. To get a little extra clearance, use the 30x9.50R15LT's. This size would be a good comprimise between the 235's and the 31's. I just put a set of Yokohama Supper Diggers 30x9.50's on my L/R 88 ($69.00/ea at Costco). It has increased it's clearance, they do not stick out, and I think they even weigh less than my old Goodrich T/A 235's. They also look great on an 88, but that's purely subjective. Next weekend we have a three day Rover Run over some fairly rough terrain on the eastern slopes of Washington's Cascade Mountains. I will update everone on how these Yokohamas performed. Safe Rovering, John Benham 1968 88 `Bwana Mobile' From labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Fri Feb 3 10:48:58 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 10:48:58 PST From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Subject: RE: Jackob's Electronics For the question on how the omni-pak installs. I bought an Omni-Pak for my International Travelall but my engine was allready in top shape so I could not really tell instinctly how much gain I got from it. Also, I did not have it installed long enough to do any real tests ( I have to sell it to help pay for my new 1970 series IIA 88"). I am installing the Omni-Pak on the Rover now but I can not tell you of the performance increase there either as I am awaiting my gearbox from Scotty. When I get the Rover running maybe I will do some tests and report them back to the list. The Omni-Pak I bought came with zero impeadance cables to replace your stock plug cables. Here is the process: * Replace the plug wires * Get new spark plugs and change the gap from .030 to ~.055 Jackob's suggests Autolites and stresses NOT to use Split-Fires as they are a waiste of $$ and get fouled quickly. * Disconnect the High Tension lead from the coil to the distributor and attach it somewhere in the engine compartment or in your glove box. In the unlikely event the Jackob's fails you will need it. * Jackob's supplies a cable that grounds the original coil. Plug the cable into the coil and attach the other end to to the nearest ground. * Mount the Omni pack in a well vented area, not where it will be exposed to excessive engine heat. * Attach the Jackob's supplied high tension lead from Omni-Pack to the distibutor. There are only three wires left and one is a ground. * Attach the ground wire from the pack to a suitable ground. * Attach the red power wire (with inline fuse) to the positive battery term. * Finally attach the trigger wire to were the trigger wire attaches to the existing coil. * You are ready to rock n roll! Jackob's also told me that I could decrease the points gap to help save them. Apparently the Omni-Pack can, by measuring resistance accross the spark gap, reignite unburnt fuel, adjust for temperature, humidity, and preasure. They claim something like 98% fuel burning, which is pretty amazing if it is true. The internal coil can apparently send multiple sparks on one stroke if the flame goes out. If the Omni-Pak ever fails then all you have to do is unplug the grounding cable from your stock coil and reconnect the coil to the distibutor. That is it. No tools involved. Oh, by the way, I also bought Dr. Jackob's book on optimizing your ignition. In it he states that it is his oppinion and experience that Lucas is the absolute worst ignition there is and that Bocsh (sp?) is close to it. I do not recall what he thinks is the best. In his book he explains how to make a cheap system to measure your peak horse power, peak torque, etc... If people are really interested in some performance numbers for the Rover 2.25 then maybe I will set some tests up with and without the Omni-Pack Jason LaBranch | To find your way, look within! Parallel Products Group | -- AAA Road Atlas Sybase Engineering (510) 922-4690 | From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Feb 03 15:43:23 1995 Date: Fri, 03 Feb 1995 15:43:23 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: Chris' wanderings Chris writes: none Also the thing seems to want to veer to either side as I drive it. Almost as if it wants to follow every crack, bump and ripple in the road. Is this a problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? none No. It should be relatively responsive (for a truck). Try the following: 1. Check tire pressures 2. Tighten spring shackles (loosen lock nut 1st). Check for disintigrating bushings (rubber missing or peeling out). 3. Check tie rod ends for looseness (look at each while someone rocks the steering wheel back & forth). Check steering relay in same fashion (and check it for oil). 4. Jack up each wheel & shake (the wheel, that is). Side to side & to to bottom looseness = bearing pre-load needs adjusting. Top to bottom only loosensess = worn swivel pins. 5. Adjust steering box (is there oil in it?). Loosen lock nut. Clean all the crud off the threads and spray WD-40 or something similar on the threads- work the adjuster until it turns freely. Turn it in gently until you begin to feel resistance. Tighten the locknut. 6. Check your alignment (toe in is the only adjustable part of the alignment). Ooops! Almost forgot! Oversized tires will make it wander too (duh). I run 235 70R-15s on my 88. It tracks pretty well on the highway. I hear other folks like 7.5R-16s even better. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Feb 3 12:52:45 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:52:45 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with > the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with > the 3.9 diffs that are not yet installed. On the down side I'm having a > front driveshaft manufactured. Note the lack of reference to off-road performance. Just wait till he gets stuck in the mud from wheel spin, because there is no low end torque. This is another successful conversion from a Land Rover to an ugly Blazer. R, bg From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Feb 3 12:54:31 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 12:54:31 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Land-Rover Tyres Chris, Regarding your questions about the tyres on your 1966 88" Land-Rover: >My new beast has tyres that look like they are too big for it. They stick out >from the body by 1 - 2 inches. They are 31 x 10.50 15LTs. Can anyone tell me [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >problem. My local mechanic has checked the vehicle out and says there isn't >really anything wrong. Maybe it's just the way a LR drives? I ran Armstrong Norseman Treadlok Radials in size 31x10.50x15 for years and was very happy with them. So happy in fact that recently, when I sold that Land-Rover to Jason LaBranch, I insisted on keeping them to put on another of my Land-Rovers. Mine are mounted on factory-looking custom steel wheels that are 8.0 inches wide. I have also tried putting 31x10.50s on the stock 6.0-inch-wide wheels. This did not work for me. They never would seat properly and so tended to go flat and were also, in effect, rather out-of-round, with the bead down in some places and up in others. The particular tyres that I tried this with, if it matters, were Firestone ATX all-terrains. Jory Bell, also on this list, though, has this size tyre on stock rims and his seem to seat O.K. You might ask him for more details on his experience with this set-up. I forget what brand his are. Although I was always concerned that I might get cited by the Highway Patrol for the tyres sticking out of the wheel wells, I never did (ran those wheels on that Land-Rover for roughly ten years and on another for a couple before that and 10" wheels for about five years before that). When I first put the wide wheels on this Land-Rover, I had trouble with wander and shimmy but this proved to be because of worn-out spring and shock bushings, low oil in the steering relay box, and worn-out tie-rod ends (ball joints). Once I oiled up the relay, adjusted the play in the main steering box, replaced all six ball joints, and replaced all spring and shock bushings, it was fine. I always intended to put on a steering stabilizer but never did. Hope this helps, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Morgan Hannaford Fri Feb 3 14:03:50 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:03:50 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Ahem, maybe Bill didn't read the fabulous storyline by our Rover-journalist Granville Pool. On that slick hill, in the dark, on our way out of the forest- mine was the only Rover to make it up on its own power. I attributed it to my being able to take the hill in a higher gear, hence greater continuous momentum and less wheel spin. Although I had tall tires (235-85-16), they were severely lacking tread (>40K miles on them). Oh, ya. I have a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... I'm not saying the Chevy mill conversions are better; Vance, Jory, and Jim went everywhere I went. Jory even "bounced" past me on one uphill section. But it works well for me and many other Rover owners. This purist attitude is fine, just like bible thumpin' christians are fine. Just don't judge the rest of us by your self righteous standards. In my not-so-humble opinion, the Land Rover was designed to be a flexible, all purpose vehicle. Many of them have been modified throughout the world to accomodate specific terrain or requirements. I talked to a guy from Canberra, Australia and he said all his "mates" have Rovers, but they all use Holden (G.M.) motors in them. It gets them to the fishing site, and are much less expensive to maintain. The simplicity and functionality of Land Rover is what makes them such a legendary vehicle, not some leaky cast iron block. Cheers, Morgan On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > > the only way to power a Land Rover. Economy is about the same with > > the original 4.7 ratio + overdrive. Hopefully it will improve with [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > is another successful conversion from a Land Rover to an ugly Blazer. > R, bg From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Feb 3 14:32:24 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 14:32:24 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... ^^^^^ not boat? and... do you have 3.9 diffs? Setting up a Land Rover as a Calfornia freeway cruiser does not make any sense to me. You can buy complete vehicles that are better suited for less that the cost of the adaptor. Why bother? Just my opinion, you are welcome to yours. Shall we ask Terri Ann if she ever put that Plymouth engine in her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better just leave it alone. R, bg From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Feb 3 18:13:01 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:13:01 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: land vs. range > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should > be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, > and he slept: and he took one of his oil leaks, and closed up the tranny > thereof..... hold it, hold it...you got it wrong here....this should read: Then, white man came along.....and he: > made a Range Rover..... always blaming someone for our troubles, rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Feb 3 18:40:52 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:40:52 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Robert's Mercruiser Transplant > Exhaust and radiator plumbing were unmodified. The only drawback is that > the starter is on the opposite side of the engine and nearly fouls the > front prop shaft. Robert plans on replacing it with a solid 1" shaft > rather than the tubular Rover unit to gain clearance. Because of the Wahoa, there.....*solid* 1" shaft??? Dis gonna work?? He gonna bust motor mounts??? The shaft has got to be able to move fore and aft as the front axle moves up and down, no??? Nigel had a frozen front prop shaft awhile back. Every bump I hit my tranny got jolted.... me don't thinks he can get away with a shaft that can't move..., but I'm sure Robert will figure it out, rd/nige From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Feb 3 17:16:33 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 17:16:33 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest In message <9502032232.AA13891@elephino.eng.sun.com> William L. Grouell writes: > > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... > ^^^^^ [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better > just leave it alone. > R, bg Nope, my TR3 stays stock..except for the DCOE Webbers, exhaust header, electric fan, external oil cooler, spin on filter adaptor...... However, having put over 250K miles on my Land Rover since '78, having put a second petrol tank under the drivers seat, having put a door in the side for access to the propane tank, having spent days on the road with truck drivers saying bad things about me over the CB, having ended up in first gear to pull a horse trailer loaded with two horses up a long grade, having a fully rebuilt Land Rover engine that is totally worn out at 11K miles from a fellow Land Rover owner pouring dirt in my engine, having to face a mew rebuild... That Mercruser motor is looking mighty good to me. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 03 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 03 Feb 95 20:56:35 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Wheels and steering Solihull ( Mecca) is E.S.E of Birmingham, often included in the Birmingham suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east midlands airport if that figures on your map. Chris your handling problems are associated with the wide tyres, if not the cause , certainly a contributor, try a tyre change first, even if it is only borrowing some from a friend to try, check your steering box, track rod ends, steering idler and swivel pin bearings. The wide tyres change the steering geometry in addition to catching every minorchange in the road surface. At best the steering is a bit woolly, learn to focus a hundred yards in front of you, not on the front of the bonnet ( hood ) and relax, do not try to chase minor deviations in course, hold the wheel steady and you'll go straight, start trying to correct minor deviations and you will forever be moving the wheel to and fro. the spoked steel wheels were introduced on the disco, and fitted to the fleet model range rovers. at the start most disco owners changed them for either the alloys or aftermarket wheels, there were plenty of used ones around in the UK for 15 to bucks each, the price has risen a bit since then, in the UK the 5.5' can be bought new for around 40 bucks. the UK 90'sand 110's are fitted with the standard pattern wheels fitted to ser 2a LWB's since 1968. some 90's were supplied with the earlier pattern rr rostyle wheels. the 7" wheels fitted to the 130 are very good, same as the forward control 110, of the late sixties. the alloys are very tough wheels, and if kept clean will stay in good condition for a long time, watch out for careless tyre fitters. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From sohearn@InterServ.Com Fri Feb 3 18:04:59 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 18:04:59 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: More! > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > our Lord 1970. Here endeth the lesson. > (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) Please go on! - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From RLZiegler@aol.com Fri Feb 3 22:03:11 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 1995 22:03:11 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Marcus differential Marcus, Since you mention ten capscrews you have a Rover type differential. The torque on the crown wheel capscrews should be 35 ft/lbs on 8 capscrews and 45 ft/lbs on the 2 special capscrews ( the two with the slightly larger shoulder diameter). These special capscrews should be placed 180 deg. away from one another and should be torqued before the other 8 are. The 60-70 ft/lb torque you used is for the ENV type diffs. It's no wonder at least one of the capscrews sheered when you installed it at the higher torque. As for the steering, if you are experiencing play in the steering wheel when the vehicle is stopped then the information already given by Russel D. is a start. Look for other things that might be loose: steering relay parts, arms on swivel housings, and even road spring 'U'bolts. If what you are describing as steering play is wandering on the straight and level while moving, then what is probably wrong is tightness in the steering system. This is checked for by getting the front wheels off the ground and turning from lock to lock. If it feels stiff then the first thing I check is the steering relay resistance to rotation which should be not less than 12 lbs. or more than 16 lbs. I could go on but will stop here until further questions are asked. Rich Ziegler 63 SW 88 original owner 74 88 hardtop 3rd owner From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 04 02:14:05 1995 Date: Sat, 04 Feb 1995 02:14:05 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: land vs. range Father Mills, keeper of Tomes, quotes from the Book of Whitworth... > In the beginning God created Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, > that it was good. And God said It is not good that the Land Rover should ................. > chassis, and Lucas of my Lucas: she shall be called Range Rover because > she was taken out of Land Rover. And this came to pass in the year of > our Lord 1970. Here endeth the lesson. none Praise be the Woodruff Key! Actually, Rover tried to "upscale" the image of the Land Rover in the 1950's by trying to produce a more civilized Land Rover based vehicle. They used a P4 chassis with a 2WD drive train. The resulting vehicle was called a "Road Rover" but it never went into production. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:22:26 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:22:26 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Head Gaskets David- You mentioned these head gaskets that have problems. When I talked to Marty at British Pacific, he said the problem was only in the Gasket Sets, not the seperate LR head gasket. I hope he is right. My '73 has been completely rebuilt with a new 'high' performance head from Turner engineering. It has not been fired up yet, but I would sure hate to overheat it before I ever get to drive it! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:27:16 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:27:16 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Trailers RE: Trailers I agree that these are great/rugged trailers for the money. Have a friend who bought one (actualy one plus 2 parts) at an auction for $150. Went four wheeling. In our narrow canyons, this can be a problem. We got stuck at a dead end with this trailer on the back! Had to dis-connect and move the loaded trailer back by hand. Just be careful where you go off-road with this extra length/mobility liability! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:31:28 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:31:28 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Tires RE: Large tires I have seen a couple 'butchered' LR rims where they cut the centers out of a 16" LR rim and welded it to the rim portion of a Dick Cepeck (sp?) rim. These vehicles were running the 12.5 X 15's. Wandered all over the place, but I guess they do ok in the sand. Wouldn't recommend it! Also, check the toe value on the truck. Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Kelly Minnick Fri Feb 3 23:34:58 1995 Date: Fri, 3 Feb 95 23:34:58 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Genesis RE: Genesis Tom- Enjoyed your Genesis. Did LR also eat the forbidden fruit of Leyland and therefore forced from the Garden of England - forced to toil from the land in Germany? Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Rdigecrest, CA From Roger Sinasohn Sat Feb 4 00:09:26 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 00:09:26 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Jacob's Electronics I've heard of Jacob's, and what I've read (not much) seems to be positive. The product that I'm most interested in of theirs is a doohickey that connects to the ignition with a spring-loaded toggle switch or pushbutton. If you don't hit the button within 5 minutes (or something) after starting the engine, it stops and won't start again. Sounds like a really neat anti-theft device. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "T.F. Mills" Sat Feb 4 02:34:11 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 02:34:11 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Genesis redux Dixon is threatening to put Genesis in the FAQ, and he suggested that the proper context be established: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the jeep. And God said, Let there be Land Rover; and there was Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, that it was good; and God divided the Land Rover from the Toyota and the other abominations of darkness. < And God said, It is not good that the Land Rover should < be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] < (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and < Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) More you say? Well, Range Rover ate from the tree of BAE and fed some to Land Rover too, and God were none too pleased. So he drove Land Rover out of the garden of England, and he placed at the east of England beemers which turned every which way. As for the first murder, well, it can't be written until it happens. So, we skip to the flood... which brings us right up to the present day. But I'm sure you are all exceedingly rapturous about the revelation that God drove a Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From "T.F. Mills" Sat Feb 4 02:34:11 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 02:34:11 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Genesis redux Dixon is threatening to put Genesis in the FAQ, and he suggested that the proper context be established: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the jeep. And God said, Let there be Land Rover; and there was Land Rover. And God saw the Land Rover, that it was good; and God divided the Land Rover from the Toyota and the other abominations of darkness. < And God said, It is not good that the Land Rover should < be alone. And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Land Rover, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] < (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and < Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) More you say? Well, Range Rover ate from the tree of BAE and fed some to Land Rover too, and God were none too pleased. So he drove Land Rover out of the garden of England, and he placed at the east of England beemers which turned every which way. As for the first murder, well, it can't be written until it happens. So, we skip to the flood... which brings us right up to the present day. But I'm sure you are all exceedingly rapturous about the revelation that God drove a Land Rover. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 4 09:53:23 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 09:53:23 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Re: D90 Questions >Questions for the Defender 90 Community: >1. Has anyone ordered one with the standard steel wheels? >Are they the same as the UK Defender steel wheels? The standard steel wheels on UK models are 5.50Fx16x33 and are not suitable for tubeless use (they don't have the bead retention ridge that tubeless tyres need for safety). Translated the figures mean 5 1/2" wide, 16" dia, and 33mm offset (from mounting face to centre of tyre) - does anyone know what the F means ? TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 4 09:53:46 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 09:53:46 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: Injection Pump setting I run a 2.5Diesel 90 and have been given a Turbo kit for it. I figure it should be possible to increase the fueling without going to a specialist - can anyone tell me what the accessible controls on the injection pump do (apart from the idle and max speed settings which I already know) ? I'm not looking for ultra sophisticated matching between pump and turbo - I assume that would require some 'expensive' alterations to the pumps internals - just a bit more fuel to go with the increased airflow. TIA, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From FHYap@aol.com Sat Feb 4 14:50:29 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 14:50:29 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Trailer Bargains Does anyone know if the Trailer Bargains mentioned by Pierce Reid on 2/2/95 are available in the vicinity of the SF Bay Area? From Keerock2@aol.com Sat Feb 4 19:44:41 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 19:44:41 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Defender Legitimate? Thanks to many of you for the messages warning me of the can 'o worms I reopened the other day when I asked whether a Defender is considered legitimate by diehard LR fans. Nothing like a little controversy in my first submission. ;-) Then again, sounds like that debate's already been played out here on the net. -Dean Silliman -Lake Arrowhead, Calif., USA From Lloyd Allison Sun Feb 5 04:10:42 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 04:10:42 GMT From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Film There is a "modern" version of Don Quixote (maybe by Graham Greene) based around a dotty priest and his car. A film was made of it with Alec Guiness and Leo MacKern ? At some stage the Spanish police roll up in a L-R - a Santana of course. Can anyone fill in any details such as the name of the film? Lloyd From Steven M Denis Sat Feb 4 23:45:53 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 23:45:53 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Fri, 3 Feb 1995, William L. Grouell wrote: > > a Chevy 250 truck motor under the bonnet. Go figure...... > ^^^^^ [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > her TR-3 because it has more power and parts are cheap? Maybe we better > just leave it alone. > R, bg> Sorry, I just have to jump in here.......I just spent 7 hrs. hauling a VW van through (make that *over*) the hills of Pennsilviania (sp?) and I was a wishin' and a beggin' for about 4 more liters..... That poor 109 just was *FLOOGGED* the whole trip.....would I put a more powerful engine in there? *OH* Yeah!........Many of us cannot afford the Land Rover to have it only as a toy...It has to "earn" it's keep...If I had the Dodge Power Wagon with the Cummings TD job, *It* would have gone to Harrisburg and back...(400 foot-pounds? What hills?) but I don't and I want the landy...so a repower is a logical idea....A Isuzu Trooper would have been a puddle of slag about 20 mins. into the trip...I live in the worst climate for automotive corrosion (per GM) so the aluminum body is a "Must"...Don't like to see them all cut up and panted yellow and pink, but a tidy engine swap is not the worst thing in the world....my 107 SW will have the original engine...and it will get towed to rover events behind a 110 with a V-8...*when* I can afford one...until then, it may get pulled behind a 109 w/ a V-8.... So I say keep 'em going anyway you can...and everyone should enjoy *their* ride and ignore the rest!.... steve From Steven M Denis Sun Feb 5 00:05:43 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 00:05:43 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Injection Pump setting All 2.5L Diesel owers....*DO NOT* listen to this! Ah ehm....Well....you have a Bosch "VE" series Pump or its licence equal...find the area of the pump where the fuel lines come out and go to the injectors...got it? this is a iron block thing....just forward of this is a little thingy with a wire on it..this is the shut-off solenoid...just up and toward the wing is a funny screw that has a slot in the end and a very small hex....there is a 13mm lock nut on it and a crimped metal band to limit how far the screw will go in...(this screw is in the same plane as the crank, ok?) this is the fuel delivery adjustment.....NEVER EVER EVER touch this.......*however* *IF* that band should rattle off... and the lock nut shake it self loose..and the bird of paridise should land on that screw and turn it *ever* so slightly in...this would cause excess fuel to be deliverd into the engine and it would be your job to fit a turbo to to supply the From Kelly Minnick Sat Feb 4 23:44:13 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 95 23:44:13 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Fuel Filler RE: Fuel filler Sorry - just one more thing. The fuel filler assembly I was going to get from my buds 'part' vehicle was all rusted and partially broken. Does anyone know of another parts vehilce that wouldn't mind giving up it's right-hand filler assembly in trade for some $$$ (needs to be somewhat reasonable) It may be cheaper to track down here in the States if I can, since the 4 or 5 phone calls to UK could cost as much as the part over there! They don't seem to want to call ME back (wonder why?). Let me know Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Russell U Wilson Sun Feb 5 08:49:42 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 08:49:42 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Tires....again Sorry to flog a dead, or nearly dead horse. The question remains though, what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing problems? No, I'm not a closet lift-kit/big engine/big Ford truckwith monster mudders/lots'o chrome and a union jack flapping in the breaze... person. I'm not looking to put big wide tires on my 88 just tall ones. I have 16" rims and was looking at 235/85/16 size tires. Just how tall can you go without running into problems? I understand how tires are sized ( what all the cute numbers mean) but I just need to know what is the tallest size that I can get away with. Cheers from Pittsburgh Russ From Sekerere@aol.com Sun Feb 5 09:10:48 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 09:10:48 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rovers Hi, am thinking of trying to buy and import a pre-1967 Land Rover to the US next time I am in England. We saw the most gorgeous Carawagon last night at a classic car show at a shopping mall in Phoenix, Arizona. We would like to look for something like that or at least a 109 that we can convert. Does anyone know what something like that would cost, and what it would take, and cost, to import it to the US?? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Chris W (There are cars, trucks, and 4wds, and then there are Land Rovers) From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Sun Feb 5 16:14:37 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 16:14:37 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: D90: AUTHENTICITY To those who are questioning the diehardability of the Defender 90, let me add my two cents: I have had a half dozen and still own 3 series Land Rovers of various styles. I love them and wouldn't part with any of them. The things which endear them to us are well known - even by non-owners and legions of wannabes. The Defender 90? I will risk it all here and now and state emphatically that I believe that [it] is the penultimate result of all that embodies the Land Rover experience. The Defender 90? This is OUR beloved beast in modern trim. It is NOT a different car. Look at it for God's sake. The debate is pointless. All of the strengths are still there. Aluminum panels, simple functionality, hose-out interior, outstanding off-road performance. The weaknessess (most of them) have been banished. On-road performance. Poor heat, etc. What's different? Stone-reliable V8. 182 HP w/ 3675# curb weight. That means 80MPH in 5th gear! Turning 2600 rpm! It means brakes that will launch you through the windscreen! It means constant 4wd w/easy diff-lock at the flick of a knob at speed. It means a heater that will make you sweat when it's zero farenheit outside. And (gasp) air conditioning if you live somewhere you need it. Air cond. that will basially pop ice cubes - its that strong. A cage that will protect you and the car in a rollover. The same beloved form-follows-function sheetmetal. A chassis which is heavier, has a drainage system, and is better protected than the series frames. Enclosed cv joints. Basic retro-bility of old addons will still fit these 90s as well. This car will cruise at 85 mph all day long in fifth gear. Stop like a sports car. Multi-top system. Is this kind of stuff not something that would appeal to a diehard? I think not! I think that the Defender 90 is a bargain - even at its tariff-swollen price tag. Nice series cars are all beginning to break over 10-grand - full restos into the teens. Reread the above performance parameters and then tell me that a brand new Land Rover is not price efficient. Who trades in a series car? Right - nobody. Same w/Defender 90. You suffer through the payment book - and then its yours, forever! And when they go away, and those who suddenly want one can't get one - you who will have yours will appreciate the retained value - just as all of us series owners have for DECADES! Getting the picture? I think that the Defender 90 is the finest Land Rover ever produced. And it will be a sad day when it goes away. Don't take my word for it. Just go drive one. cheers Jim Roverheadus defenderatum berserkius jpappa01@interserv.com From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Sun Feb 5 17:10:43 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 95 17:10:43 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch All, Put the engine and gearbox back in my SIII this weekend, yep even with 3 foot of snow on the ground !!! Put a heater in the garage and lots of coffee !!! Anyway, I'm trying to bleed the clutch, with little or no success. Anyone tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? Mark From EvanD103@aol.com Sun Feb 5 21:14:52 1995 Date: Sun, 5 Feb 1995 21:14:52 -0500 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Misc. Questions Hi there! The resurrection of my 1973 Series 3 88" is proceeding more or less on schedule. After nearly 2 months of ownership I've had the frame sandblasted, primed, and repainted. It looks great. The new steering relay and suspension bushings were a lot easier to install than the old were to remove. Based on suggestions from others in this forum the relay was 'packed' in grease before installation. Someone will thank me for that in 20 years... Some questions: I'd like to clean and paint the springs before installing them with their new bushings. Any suggestions on paint? I'd hate for it to flake off the first time they flexed. I've disassembled the engine (only problem was beating out the seized pistons - engine hasn't run in years), and need to start buying replacement parts. Anyone had experience replacing the 'Rube Goldberg' designed chain tensioner with the newer alternative (looks like a conventional Reynolds pad type in the literature)? Do I only need the appropriate chain to go with it? Lastly, my oil pump is well worn and rusty (how can an oil pump rust?). I've come across 3 different part numbers for the assembly: The Land Rover parts book calls for RTC2554, Paddock in England lists ETC7054, and in the US Rovers North and British Pacific list part # ERR1117. Are these all the same part for my 2.25 litre engine? Any help would be appreciated. Sincerely, Erik Erik van Dyck Stone Mountain, Georgia 1973 Ser.3 88 in pieces.... From UncleBrad@aol.com Mon Feb 6 00:43:49 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 00:43:49 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Those surplus110s & 90s I finally got hold of an outfit in VA which is supposedly selling US Military spec. Land Rover 110s & 90s (1992) which are still in the crates. This is an equipment broker, as far as I can tell. I introduced myself as the editor of the Aluminum Workhorse magazine and told him that I was interested in letting our readers know the real story on the vehicles and perhaps even getting one myself (all true). The fellow I spoke to said yes, there are a bunch of them here in the U.S. (450 somewhere in Indiana) and more to come (for a total of 2000). And yes they could be purchased in smallish lots, perhaps as small as 10 vehicles. I quizzed him about the vehicles, since there have been some conflicting reports on the net. If you've been following this subject, you have many of the other details which he (mostly) confirmed. I was, however, very interested in whether they were cleared by the EPA & DOT. And one of the postings mentioned that some of the engines were 170hp, 6.5 liter diesel V-8s. A friend of mine (who is a Land Rover enthusiast also) pointed out to me that that was not one of Land Rover's engines. It was however the description of the big GM engine which was put into Hummers & Suburbans. He also suggested that this makes some sense in light of the fact that these vehicles are U.S. Military spec vehicles which were probably bought for use in "Desert Storm" where they would be in service right next to the U.S. Military Hummers. It would actually be a smart move to have some commonality of parts in all the vehicles out there. Well, it seems that the fellow I spoke to couldn't give me a satisfactory answer to my EPA/DOT concern, although he tried. I spoke to his boss about it and he gave me some B.S. about how all military vehicles are exempt from these requirements. I can hear myself telling my local California DMV clerk THAT! Half an hour later, I got a call from the broker asking me just where I got my information. I told him that it has been one of the subjects on the net for a couple of weeks and that I really couldn't tell where it all started. Interestingly, he bagan to suggest that they might not want to have their firm's name splashed around but that they would gather up the documentation & information that I had requested and send it to me. He neglected to ask for my address though. Did I say something wrong? I must have, because I had a very strong feeling that I was never going to hear from these folks again. Robert Davis wrote of his research into this subject on Jan 18 and tells us that there may be other companies out there who are selling these vehicles too. He names a company called Autobus which was a company name in Europe but not in this country to my knowledge. And Andrew Wright has posted a message indicating that he is trying to pull together a group of 25 interested buyers to purchase some of the vehicles. I imagine he is in touch with a different company. I am still interested this, so would greatly appreciate anything more that anyone might have that could lead me to something solid. See ya! Brad Blevins From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 00:45:18 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 00:45:18 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch Mark's bleedin' clutch..... > Put the engine and gearbox back in my SIII this weekend, yep even with 3 > foot > of snow on the ground !!! Put a heater in the garage and lots of coffee Garage? Heat!! Wimp!! :) I bled the clutch in Fern last winter with three feet of snow around the truck!! They *are* a pain in the arse, aren't they? Never tried the one-man bleed kit thingie.. I did borrow a Mitey-Vac and had good results.. (You can probably find one a K-Mart or Walmart - about $20) Also heard of people priming the master cylinder... Never tried it, but it's supposed to help. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Sekerere@aol.com Mon Feb 6 00:57:00 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 00:57:00 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: South Africa If there is anyone reading this who has contacts in South Africa who could help me to locate a 1960-1966 vintage 109" in GOOD condition for use during our family vacation there. This vehicle would be purchased with the idea of exporting it to the US after our vacation. Please could they contact me at: Sekerere@aol.com. We From UncleBrad@aol.com Mon Feb 6 03:01:54 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 03:01:54 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Engine swaps? I'm afraid that I'm one of those who has gone the way of the Chevy. And It is everything that Land Rover should have been in the first place. Isn't that why they put the 6 cylinder engine in the Land Rovers1967? They just chose the wrong engine. Seems to me that the $450 or so that I spent for the adapter kit, added to the cost of an older, rebuilt Chevrolet engine (which is better than the newer ones for several reasons, one being the lack of smog paraphernalia) is still much less than the cost of a Land Rover engine. Then consider the availability of reasonably priced parts even in the middle of mexico. Call me practical but... About the torque damaging the drive train- I have no doubt that I could do damage to the Land Rover gearbox with all that horsepower but I still drive my 109 like it's a Land Rover, not a hot rod. The only difference in my driving is that I can keep it around 55-60 even on the grades. Well, maybe I have stopped using 1st gear so much too... That leads to the problem of gearing- The overdrive is a good, easy way to get high gearing without sacrificing low gearing. Yes, it adds to the cost of the project but you don't have to do it right away. Another way to go, as mentioned earlier in this discussion (not by me) is taller diffs. I have been both routes and prefer this one. The overdrive requires consistent oil level monitoring for some reason and I don't like having to remember things like that all the time. New gearing leads to the question of getting stuck due to lack of low rpm ability- I don't want seem like I'm bragging but I must tell you that my 109 can pull at 500 rpms even with 3:54 diffs. That is good enough for me and what I do. And the power has enabled me to cruise through deep sand where my fellow travellers in stock Land Rovers could not. Not with a running start either. For those of you who have the Chevy already, or have been convinced that this is something that you might be interested in I would like to pass on the address of a company which specializes in performance parts for 4 & 6 cylinder inline engines. Consider them for improving your economy rather than performance. They even have headers for the Land Rover engine. Send $5 for their catalogue: Clifford Performance PO Box 2620 Corona, CA 91720 Phone 909-734-3310 I hope I don't get too much hate mail for this. Brad Blevins From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1904 Date: 06 Feb 95 04:07:14 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Jeeps in the snow... ...just a short quote from The Guardian (UK), reporter Martin Wainwright telling about his experience when trapped on the M62 over a week ago when the Midlands and Pennines where hit by a blizzard during evening rush hour. "Midnight on the M62 saw Leeds and Manchester evening rush hour frozen into the landscape seven hours after we were all due home. ... The police Range Rovers whispered and crumped on the snow past the stranded pretend Jeeps, whose drivers hadn't yet the same mastery of four-wheel drive..." Doesn't that go down like warm chocolate? From Richard Jones Mon Feb 6 09:52:23 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 09:52:23 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Wheels and steering WILLIAM L. LEACOCK writes: > Solihull ( Mecca) is E.S.E of Birmingham, often included in the Birmingham > suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east > midlands airport if that figures on your map. none [...] > Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. > suburbs, just inside the M42 motorway on the A45 Coventry rd, also close to east Looks like you have been away a little too long - Land Rover is close to Birmingham International Airport - East Midlands Airport is near Nottingham :-) -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no Mon Feb 06 12:13:15 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 12:13:15 MET From: Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no Subject: fuel + cost + rebuild Hello! The V8 of my RR'79 is a very thirsty friend to have, so... The *jewel* is a standard RR configuration with twin Stromberg carbs and no injection or turbo. I have started to collect some info on possibilities for rebuilding. Do anybody in the LR-net have advice on what i might expect from a standard -> electronic injection, or petrol -> diesel or ......(suggestions) port? Harald ----------------------------------- Harald Stegavik, Research Scientist SINTEF Pb 124, Blindern N-0314 Oslo Norway tel: +47 2206 7927 fax: +47 2206 7909 Inet: Harald.Stegavik@si.sintef.no From Tom Stevenson Mon Feb 6 10:33:24 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:33:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Leaf springs I never had much success with painting leaf springs; they always went rusty. In the end I just daubed on a mixture of diesel and engine oil with the relavent wheel jacked up to relax the spring. This seemed to keep the rust off and the spring supple (if 'supple' can be applied to a LR leaf spring) By the way, who is Rube Goldberg? Is he of the same ilk as Heath-Robinson? Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Tom Stevenson Mon Feb 6 10:18:24 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:18:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: Defender 90 Hear, Hear! However, you forget to mention one of the most important attributes of the 90s and 110s; the coil springs. These alone have saved me a fortune in dental bills for loose fillings since I changed from Series Rovers to a 90. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From SE THOMAS 6 95 Feb GMT 1913 Date: 6 Feb 95 13:37:39 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: Introductions Hi, being new to the list I thought I should send in a brief introduction. I have a 1964 swb 2.25 diesel, and bearing in mind what Sandy Grice and Mike Rooth said, no-one follows me on the motorway because it's dangerous to drive in a pall of thick black smoke. As a consequence the block is out at the moment for a rebore, and then it'll be a case of trying to fit it all back together again. If anyone has any hints for re-timing a CAV mechanical distributor without the flange nearest the marker, I'd appreciate them (yes, I know I could have marked it elsewhere, but someone else removed it while my back was turned). Yours up to my elbows in bits that shouldn't be broken, Stephen Thomas From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 06 Feb 95 08:59:47 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Tires....again Russel enquires... > what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing > ... > I have 16" rims and was looking at 235/85/16 size tires. Just how tall On the 16" rims you can go as far as 9.00, though I would strongly advise to swap for 1-ton rims in that case, or your turn-around radius will be comparable with an old Greyhound bus. With 235/85 tires, the problem is not so much size but *tubes*. On the regular rims of an 88, you *cannot* fit tubeless tires. And you cannot fit tubeless with an extra tube inside either; we've tried, doesn't work - apparently the tube begins 'wandering' and warping inside, and eventually, i.e. like real soon, rips. And I *think* - might be wrong, though - that none of the 235/85 brands come with tubes. What you could do is take the _old_ style steel rims of the pre-1980 Range Rovers, they're suitable for tubeless, and they fit the 88 (looks a bit weird though). Make sure, however, that you get the 7"-wide variety. With 245'ers, again you will have the problem of needing an entire empty parking lot to turn your wagon around. Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 06 Feb 95 08:59:00 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Misc. Questions Erik van Dyck (EvanD103@aol.com) is puzzled: > I've come across 3 different part numbers for the assembly: The Land Rover >parts book calls for RTC2554, Paddock in England lists ETC7054, and in the US >Rovers North and British Pacific list part # ERR1117. Are these all the same >part for my 2.25 litre engine? Any help would be appreciated. Erik, all those numbers designate the same identical part. ERR1117 is the current, valid parts number that has superseded both others. RTC2554 has been superseded way-back - when was your parts book printed? Enjoy, Stefan From Mike Rooth Mon Feb 6 14:15:18 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 14:15:18 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Tires....again Just to confuse the issue...I've got 205 16 radials *with* tubes(the same ones I had when it wore 6.00 16 cross ply boots) on my 88".No problems yet...touch wood. Cheers Mike Rooth From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Mon Feb 06 15:18:56 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 15:18:56 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Newby and already some "steering" Qs I just recently joined this list after been bitten by some kind of a virus: saw an article on LRs in "practical classics" and came to the conclusion that next to all of those other cars needed a LR or two. Bruce H. told me about this list, thanks Bruce, and I gladly joined. Enjoyed reading for the past two weeks orso. Well, splashed out a week ago and bought two for the price of one. A '63 109" IIa Diesel, fitted with a Peugeot "Indenor" Diesel, and a '60 88" II on gas, half of it in boxes. I used the notes in the FAQ when checking these cars, and they both are in reasonable shape, the LWB can be used regularly, but is untastily modified. I will have to work on it a little to make it pass the yearly official test. The guy I bough them from had collected a pile of new/used spare parts with came with the deal. Also a set of maintenance mauals (though intended for army LRs). I hope to be able to ask some questions to this list regarding the "resurrection" of these Land Rovers. I don't have any experience yet with LRs in particular, but that will come! A problem with the LWB is that the steering was rather vague. On the check I had already noticed two worn tie-rods on the steering(?) arm: the arm that goes from the relay to the (right) wheel. When checking this arm I noted that it is out of spec. The tie-rod are set on minimum length and the center-distance is 31.5" (80 cm). According to the series III specs it should be between 78.3..78.6 cm (30+7/8"). I noted that the steering wheel has an awkward position when driving, but that the relay-lever is pointing forward when the steering wheel is straight ahead. Could it be that I have the wrong steering arm? Can somebody measure up a correct LWB IIa steering before I scrounge through the pile of SWB II parts and find one thats even worse. Also, while busy giving long due maintenance, I tried to oil the steering relay in situ. According to the manuals, you'll have to remove two of the oil seal retainer bolts, use one as a filler and the other for air escape. Is this the proper way? I had a tough time removing two said bolts, the upper relay arm is definetily in the way. In the end, I wasn't able to get any oil in, it just kept pouring out of the opposite bolt hole. Thanks very much, Richard P. Kleihorst. From C Taylor Sutherland III Mon Feb 6 10:22:24 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:22:24 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: New Disco? Well, I finally saw a Disco that WASN'T at the dealer's. Amazing. Anyway, while driving through Greenville, SC I happened (on purpose) to drive past the local dealer (so I could drool at the Defender 90, and finally see the new hard top, makes it look like the old intented grill 90's) and I saw a Disco up under the over hang. At first, I thought it was a Mitsubishi as they sometimes have other trucks there for sale but when I got up closer, I noticed that it in fact was a Discovery. But it looked shorter than it had in months previous. Is it just my imagination or have they in fact made the Disco shorter? taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Mon Feb 06 10:29:47 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 10:29:47 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Bleedin' cylinders Mark Talbot (mtalbot@interServe.com) wrote about bleeding the clutch cylinder. I've made a nifty pressure bleeder for less than $2. Took a 1 qt. garden sprayer with a broken nozzle (*never* throw *anything* away!) and used some gas line hose to plumb it to a spare plastic reservoir cap. Siliconed a brass hose barb (the $2 bit) into the cap. Now a single person can bleed brakes or clutches. The clutch master cylinder has a rough casting mark from where the two halves of the mold met, and that may have to be judiciously filed down...just beware of the swarf. As long as you're at it, you may want to replace the clutch flex line...something that often gets overlooked. I notice that Rich Ziegler (RLZiegler@aol.com) has joined us. Welcome aboard Rich! For those that do not know him, Rich is the single most knowledgeable person about Land Rovers that I have ever met. Rich was probably the reason Bill Hubert started Atlantic British way back when. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From S|ren Vels Christensen Mon Feb 6 17:09:40 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 17:09:40 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch On Sun, 5 Feb 1995, Mark Talbot wrote: > Anyway, I'm trying to bleed the clutch, with little or no success. Anyone > tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? > Mark none I am the proud owner of the most efficient one-man-bleed-kit on this planet. It's made of two parts: one left arm and one right ditto. Just remove the floor (on the drivers side!), work the clutch with one arm and the wrench with the other. For brake bleeding though, i foresee the need of the double-one-man-bleeding- kit ;-) Good luck. sv/aurens velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From Steve Firth Mon Feb 6 14:30:20 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:30:20 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Tires....again Russell U Wilson wrote: >>Sorry to flog a dead, or nearly dead horse. The question remains though, what is the "largest" tire you can use on a 15" or 16" rim without causing problems? << The largest standard tyre used on the 16" rim are 7.50x16s as fitted to the 109/110. You can get these as radials from General and BFG in a variety of tread patterns. You need a new speedometer head when these tyres are fitted to an 88/90. -- Steve Firth: '81 109" Safari, 2.25 petrol. From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Feb 06 09:31:41 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 09:31:41 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Clutch bleeding Mike Loiodice wrote: > Mark's bleedin' clutch..... > They *are* a pain in the arse, aren't they? Never tried the one-man bleed [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > probably find one a K-Mart or Walmart - about $20) Also heard of people > priming the master cylinder... Never tried it, but it's supposed to help. I've never found bleeding the clutch to be all that annoying. I simply pull the driver's side floorboard. I position a tuna fish can (which I always carry to hold change and such in) to catch the fluid. Then I use my left hand to depress the clutch and my right one to loosen and tighten the bleed screw. Simple and can be done by yourself in the field. I nice design feature IMO. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Jimmy Patrick Mon Feb 6 12:58:55 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 12:58:55 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: jacob's ignition... Greg said: >Has anybody had any experience dealing with or using ignition products from >Jacobs Electronics? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >(from my understanding ) your points and the coil. It fires the coil and >just uses the points as the trigger. Over here Boyner Bradsen (or somebody, I have the order form) sell one of these thingys for about 19 pounds. It is actually cheaper to order from the states, you don't pay the VAT at 17.5% and shipping is quite cheap. The unit is about the size of a pack of camel trophy cigarettes. You switch about three wires and bingo. If you dont like it, you switch those three wires back. I don't have one of these yet but Trevor Talbot has one and he thinks it is great. Your points will last much longer with this unit attached. It also has a handy led timing light on the unit that you can use for static timing. I will order one of these when I return to the states. There are a lot of people in the Series one club who use these things with good results. Jimmy Patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Mon Feb 6 10:02:19 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:02:19 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Trailer Bargains > From lro-owner@uk.stratus.com Sat Feb 4 12:06 PST 1995 > To: lro@team.net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > Does anyone know if the Trailer Bargains mentioned by Pierce Reid on 2/2/95 > are available in the vicinity of the SF Bay Area? There's a surplus dealer in Fresno that sells them for $650. There's a guy in Oakland that had some, don't know the price. R, bg From "John R. Benham" Mon Feb 6 10:40:21 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 10:40:21 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Petro tank bladder Dear LRO's, Does anyone know if there are rubber (hypalone?) liners available for fuel tanks of the older Land Rovers? Older Land Rovers were not designed with safety engineering or standards in mind, especially for a side impact. The fuel tank would probably rupture during a severe right hand side impact. Hopefully, a high density flexible liner might prevent rupturing. Any thoughts or suggestions on this? Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile' From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Mon Feb 6 11:24:02 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 11:24:02 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: rover maintanence Hello all, I can now report that changing the oil on the tiger is easier than on the rover. Although both systems are similar, I needed my wife (from above) to start the bolt that holds the oil filter holder while I down below, held the cannister up in the holder. The Tiger has a more obtuse arrangement, with the oil in pipe (from the adapter on the block) threading into a VERY large bolt/cap that covers the top of the oil filter. However, I can perform the holding and tightening myself; the rover takes two people! ( I have the six cyl. and a heat shield. Perhaps on the fours, one person can manage.) While changing the oil, I was able to locate the source of an oil leak (I think). I believe oil is leaking from the adapter/block interface; I know, I should have taken everything apart while the oil was out and the filter was out but I didn't. I wanted to check my books to see what I was getting into. Turns out that didn't help. I have checked my repair manuals and RN catalog but cant find mention of a gasket that goes on the block between the block and the adapter plate that holds the oil filter holder. (I found the gasket that goes between the oil filter cannister holder and the adapter bun not the other one, between the adapter and the block.) I'm trying my best to be clear. So, is there a gasket there? There must be, right? Part number please? I can see I'm going to have to buy a parts books. Does the parts book have lots of exploded diagrams? Secondly, would any rover owners who have converted to eletronic ignition email me with the system you bought, price and comments? Thanks, John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first) University of Calif Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu Davis, CA or ? From Richard Strysniewicz Sun Feb 05 23:27:34 1995 Date: Sun, 05 Feb 1995 23:27:34 GMT From: Richard Strysniewicz Subject: Re: Holy Smoke - a Weber! >I vaguely recall that someone - I think a LR newbie? - complained about a >4-cyl. petrol smoking w/power loss, fitted with a Weber carb... yeah, sounds Thanks Stefan, that was my post you were thinking about. I have recently fitted an in-line filter because I had noticed an accumulation of crud in the float bowl. Hopefully I will not see this problem again for a while. On a related note, anyone care to comment on the relative merits of Zenith vs. Weber cabs for the 2.25? I have a Turner performance head but otherwise stock engine. I'm not lacking for power right now but would like an increase in fuel economy (wouldn't everyone?) Would a Zenith be any more economical than the Weber? I currently get about 16mpg (imperial gallons) give or take a few here in windy, hilly southern England. Most of the miles are at 55-60mph, no overdrive, 7.50 tyres. Does that sound normal or should I be able to do better? Richard Strysniewicz DoD 1193 AMA 661768 Petersfield, UK 1991 907ie Bellarossa From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Feb 06 12:58:40 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 95 12:58:40 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: New Range Rover... preview, and more. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: New Range Rover... preview, and more. Last Thursday I attended a big "whoop-te-doo" at the LR dealership in Phoenix to introduce the new Range Rover model. Quite a showing of people, lots of "famous" celebrities including several members of the Phoenix Sun's basketball team (A C Greene and I can't remember the other) and Jim West of the USA 1992 Camel Trophy team. I had a great time talking with Jim, who happens to live "near" me (well, around 30 miles away) and said he'd love to go 4-wheeling with me. He owns a... (Oh, dare I say...) a "Jeep", but he raved about the capabilities of the Land Rover, and "can't wait for the day he can own one." His preference is 1, a D90, 2, a Discovery, 3, a D110. (It appears he weighs heavily on the wheelbase) and had many great stories about the tdi, (turbo-diesel) and the camel trophy, and... oh, but I'm rambling now... Sorry... The new Range Rover is FABULOUS! And a "bargain" at (only) $54,000 US. Talking with the sales-droid, everything is new, re-engineered. New engine, new trans with "H-gate" shifter (allows you to override automatic gear selection in 4WD-low to where you can select any gear and it'll remain there. Yes, you can START in 3rd gear!) New interior, new dash, new body... Looks like it has Discovery mirrors, and similarly to the Discovery, the "groove" running the length of the vehicle near the top third of the door. Analog speedometer, with digital odometer and information center that can display "hundreds"? of informational messages about the vehicle, such as "Tailgate ajar" or "Headlights on" or maybe even (WOW! Who's that in my passenger seat!" (I could be slightly exaggerating here.. .) ;) I also met Charles Hughes, president of Land Rover of North America, and asked him many questions including the "phantom 110's and 90's" we've all heard rumor of, to which he said he had heard the rumors, and if they were true, he's have known about them. (Dashed my hopes... ) While I had his ear, I pulled out my list of suggestions for the Discovery. Most of these he said were design choices and wouldn't be changing. (Also some are due to market demand, people want a "yuppie truck" and are not concerned with FULL instrumentation.) My suggestions were: 1.) No ABS in 4WD-low range. (told that ABS still is the better solution.) 2.) Seat belts lock at an angle (no change) * I now use a paper clamp to hold the belt from retracting if I exit the truck while on an angle. 3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available) 4.) Automatic trans shift points. (no change) 5.) Rear mud flaps break off. (Noted my comment, possible future improvement.) 6.) Binacle mounted controls blocked from view by steering wheel. (Meant to be used by touch, but noted my suggestion to move the indicator lights to the dash.) 7.) Better seat adjustor than the "starwheel" thing. (Told me that the market wants power seats, so that may be coming.) 8.) Door lock buttons not on top of door sill. (Kind of looked at me funny, like I'm silly for accidentally locking doors with my elbow...) 9.) Arm rests on front doors. (Said "yeah, and nodded his head.) 10.) Tail light guards a bad design. (Will look into this.) Mounted to the side of the vehicle by rubber and double stick tape! 11.) Locking differentials available. (Told me that the LR was designed to get you home from "anywhere" and that this would add unnecessary strain to the drive train. - no change) 12.) Full gauges, oil, amp, trans temp. (note "market trend" "yuppie truck" reply.) 13.) No tachometer "redline" indicated. (Told that the engine is governed at 5500 RPM anyway, not needed.) 14.) Petrol model shouldn't use premium fuel. (long winded explanation of power/performance... no change) 15.) Front seat "side covers" are a bad design - get kicked off my your feet. (Noted the problem, will investigate. Admitted that he's heard of people breaking them.) 16.) Need for opaque covers for the sunroofs. (Most likely only a concern in the Arizona climate.) 17.) Need anchor tie down places for rear "cargo" area. * my offroad box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my suggestion, possible future fix.) All in all, I was encouraged, he actually asked if he could have my list, (which BTW had my name, phone # and e-mail address on it.) I asked if he has an internet connection, he said no, but he's heard a lot about it. I told him about lro@team.net. A great evening! If you get a chance to check out the new RR, do it! But, as for offroading, it looks like the only real improvements are the larger tires (tyres) the transmission, and a little more horsepower. Dave Brown - '94 LR Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Feb 6 12:15:55 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 12:15:55 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch All, Okay, thanks for all your help, problem found. Master cylinder has gone !!!! I did buy a "One man bleed kit", connected it up and started pumping the pedal. Got under to check the fluid and got a face full from the leaking master cylinder. I knew I should have replaced it !!! Hindsight 20/20 etc. Now its off with the wing and replace the master cylinder and try again. The rebuild was going so well. Luckily I have not put the floor back in yet, I want everything running correctly before that goes back in. Here's another question to you all. SIII starter motors have a cloth covered lead from the starter housing to a lead that then connects to the starter switch. Is this correct ?? From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 6 14:42:58 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 14:42:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: rover maintanence On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, John Hess wrote: > So, is there a gasket there? There must be, right? Part number please? I > can see I'm going to have to buy a parts books. Does the parts book have > lots of exploded diagrams? Between block and engine oil filter? Gasket part number is 598354 (#36 on page 1C 11 of IIA parts manual) From Kelly Minnick Mon Feb 6 13:12:49 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 13:12:49 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Re: Head Gaskets RE: Head Gaskets > I also spoke to a Rovers North representative and he said that over > the past few years, Land Rover has changed the flowrate patterns > through the engine by changing the head gasket. The only problem is none OK. Does my 'separate' head gasket have the correct flow patterns or not? It's obvious that humidity AND temp play the part in overheating. But with all the big bucks I put into my motor, I don't want to warp it. I have the copper gasket that came with the 'Bearmark' (sp?) gasket set. In my little wisdom, I decided that I needed the 'much better' composite style. Hence paid the extra buck to BP. Don't really want to pull off all that stuff, but will ONLY if needed. Seems to me that Land Rover needs to come clean and make an official statement since they are pushing so hard for using Genuine LR parts. Where has it got me? Who knows! Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Roland Sonnenburg Mon Feb 6 13:48:03 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 13:48:03 -0800 (PST) From: Roland Sonnenburg Subject: US Military Specs? Why did the US use Land Rovers as opposed to Hummvees, what model LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers. They sound like a great thing to me, but I (obviously) don't know much about them. Any thoughts? Roland From Richard Strysniewicz Mon Feb 06 21:25:10 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 21:25:10 GMT From: Richard Strysniewicz Subject: Re: Misc. Questions > Anyone had experience replacing the 'Rube Goldberg' designed chain tensioner >with the newer alternative (looks like a conventional Reynolds pad type in >the literature)? Do I only need the appropriate chain to go with it? Yes and yes. I replaced the timing chain, gears, and tensioner on my 2.25 a month ago and used the newer tensioner. It is simply a pad that rubs on the chain, attached to the end of a piston-type assembly that is forced outwards via oil pressure. Quite a simple design compared to the older type - no spring, ratchet, or sprocket. You will have to replace the chain as the new tensioner is designed to be used with a shorter chain. While you are at it you might as well replace the sprockets. You will need a gear puller to get the crank sprocket off so get one beforehand if you do not already have one. You might also want to replace the rub block as they only cost a few pounds (dollars?) Happy Wrenching, Richard Strysniewicz DoD 1193 AMA 661768 Petersfield, UK 1991 907ie Bellarossa From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 6 15:43:28 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 15:43:28 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re:New Range Rover..and more. In message <199502062000.PAA26426@transfer.stratus.com> writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > SUBJECT: New Range Rover... preview, and more. >snip > The new Range Rover is FABULOUS! And a "bargain" at (only) $54,000 US. My Land Rover is semi-Fabulous and was a bargain at only $375 US. > Talking with the sales-droid, everything is new, re-engineered. Everything on mine was an evolutionary reengineer from the series I, keeping the best & not making change just for the sake of change. > Yes, you can START in 3rd gear!) My Land Rover is capable of being started in any gear combination including 3 hi & 3 lo. Why would this be a big deal. > New interior, Mine could use one > Analog speedometer, with digital odometer and Mine has an alalogue speedometer & digital odometer too, so what > information center that can display "hundreds"? of informational > messages about the vehicle, such as "Tailgate ajar" or "Headlights on" > or maybe even (WOW! Who's that in my passenger seat!" (I could be > slightly exaggerating here.. .) ;) Mine displays speed, RPM, fuel, water temp, current, voltage, oil pressure & if its time to turn off the choke. You must manually turn your head to get a visual read out of doors or tailgate ajar. Not a dificult task for most people. The headlight on check is done by looking at the switch located in the centre bottom of the instrument panel. > I pulled out my list of suggestions for the Discovery. > Most of these he said were design choices and wouldn't be changing. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > 1.) No ABS in 4WD-low range. (told that ABS still is the better > solution.) My Land Rover does not have ABS in low range > 2.) Seat belts lock at an angle (no change) * I now use a paper clamp > to hold the belt from retracting if I exit the truck while on an angle. My seat belts do not retract when parked at an angle > 3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available) Mine mounts to the front > 4.) Automatic trans shift points. (no change) Mine shift at excactly the point I wish > 5.) Rear mud flaps break off. (Noted my comment, possible future > improvement.) Mine have been on the car since '78 and are still intact. > 6.) Binacle mounted controls blocked from view by steering wheel. > (Meant to be used by touch, but noted my suggestion to move the > indicator lights to the dash.) Binacle???? Mine are plainly layed out in easy view and reach of the driver > 7.) Better seat adjustor than the "starwheel" thing. (Told me that the > market wants power seats, so that may be coming.) Just push a lever and the seat slides. peace of cake. But mine is all the way back anyway. > 8.) Door lock buttons not on top of door sill. (Kind of looked at me > funny, like I'm silly for accidentally locking doors with my elbow...) My Land Rover's lock buttons do not sit on top of the door sill. No chance of accidently locking the door with an elbow... a rump maybe > 9.) Arm rests on front doors. (Said "yeah, and nodded his head.) My car has arm rests in the front doors > 10.) Tail light guards a bad design. (Will look into this.) Mounted to > the side of the vehicle by rubber and double stick tape! Tail light guards effective but optional > 11.) Locking differentials available. (Told me that the LR was > designed to get you home from "anywhere" and that this would add > unnecessary strain to the drive train. - no change) Always been a problem but locking diffs available for 109s & 88s if you look & have mega$$$ > 12.) Full gauges, oil, amp, trans temp. (note "market trend" "yuppie > truck" reply.) Full guages standard > 13.) No tachometer "redline" indicated. (Told that the engine is > governed at 5500 RPM anyway, not needed.) I added an electrical tach from a MGB. It fits one of the two large guage holes in the main instrument panel. Pug & play add-on. A redline is not needed because the engine runs out of steam before the engine would blow, about 4K RPM > 14.) Petrol model shouldn't use premium fuel. (long winded explanation > of power/performance... no change) Pertol model does not need premium fuel. > 15.) Front seat "side covers" are a bad design - get kicked off my > your feet. (Noted the problem, will investigate. Admitted that he's > heard of people breaking them.) No problem in my 109 > 16.) Need for opaque covers for the sunroofs. (Most likely only a > concern in the Arizona climate.) My sun roof has second skin held off the lower first skin by plastic standoffs. Its opaque except for the two ovel windows on each side of the top. Mind you opening the top takes 2 people & about 30 minutes. > 17.) Need anchor tie down places for rear "cargo" area. * my offroad > box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my > suggestion, possible future fix.) Lots of places on the side to tie too. > Dave Brown - '94 LR Discovery - Phoenix Arizona USA > box of "stuff" gets thrown all over the back when 4-wheeling. (Noted my > suggestion, possible future fix.) Dave looking at your wish list, it looks to me like you should upgrade to a 88 or 109 Land Rover. It meets or exceeds most of your wish list ;*) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 06 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 06 Feb 95 20:11:41 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: UK registration numbers So you want to know the UK vehicle registration system The first thing to note is the number represents the YEAR OF FIRST REGISTRATION, and NOT the year of manufacture Up until 1962 the number generally consisted of a combination of letters and numbers, two of the letters were codes for the office that issued tthe number, the rest were the sequence number. In 1962 some offices had run out of sequence numbers so the A suffix was started in 1963., some offices kept the old system for 63, then in 64 the whole country started with the suffix B. 65 was C, 66 D, then in 67 the system switched to an August change date , so E was 67 first half to the end of July , then F was 67 August 1 st to july 31 st 68. 68/69 G: 69/70 h: 70/71 J: 71/72 K; 72/73 L; 73/74 M, 74/75 N; 75/76 P; 76/77 R; 77/78 S; 78/79 T; 79/80 V ; 80/81 W ; 81/82 X; 82/83 Y Then it changed to a prefix letter, 83/84 A; 84/85 B ; 85/86 C ; 86/87 D; 87/88 E; 88/89F ; 89/90 G; 90/91 H ;91/92 J; 92/93 K; 93/94 L ; 94/95 M. It is possible to change the reg from one vehicle to another providing both vehicles are licensed and tested, and of the same year of manufacture or OLDER, not newer. Many LR's were released by the military in the 60's and 70's, they were given the reg number of the 'year of registration', ie a 58 ser 1 released and registered in say Feb 69 would have a G plate. Then in 83 they stopped issuing numbers of the year of registration for older vehicles, many were then given a Q prefix, unless the YEAR OF MANUFACTURE could be proven, then they were given a year related number. Are you with me so far ?. If you build a LR body of say 64 vintage onto a RR chassis of say 76 vintage you can use either number if you conveniently lose the one you do not want. therefore there are plenty of 60's ser 2 's with coil sprung chassis about in the club circuit. Caveat emptor. The LR as we all know is a big kit car, therefore there are many motors on the roads that are not what they seem, it is so easy to change the bulkhead number plate, Craddock sells blank replacements for 15 bucks, the ones from Rover cost a couple of hundred dollars and need plenty of documentation. It is possible to send the log book to Swansea ( licensing centre for the country ) and have the engine number changed with no formality. Log books carry the written warning that a log book is not proof of ownership. Log books can be bought ,sold , exchanged in several places, not legaly I might add, to give any year of reg. you want. Pre suffix reg numbers usually command a premium in the used number market, many older vehicles are worth more for their numbers than for the vehicle. There are a few pre suffix numbers issued nowadays that cannot be exchanged from one vehicle to another, they contain the letters WS as the last of the three letter sequence. Makes me feel old now that I think of the days we looked for a B reg on the 1st Jan 1964 to see which neighbour could afford a new car. Many people now wait for the new letter in August each year. Hope that it is clearer than mud, any questions give me acall. regards Bill Leacock limey in exile ( cold exile, it was -40 wind chill yesterday ) From Roger Sinasohn Mon Feb 6 19:22:43 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 19:22:43 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Importing Land Rovers Keep in mind that a standard conversion like a Carawagon or Doormobile is not the only way to go. A standard 109 (PU or SW) can be turned into a wonderful home-away-from-home. I have seen some beautiful work done. Even my own clumsy attempts at woodworking have resulted in a very useful mobile home. My girlfriend and I took my 109" all through western Canada this past summer. One of the main benefits of a DIY conversion is that you can truly tailor it for your lifestyle. Mine, for example, is completely removeable, and I'm working on a desk that could be used instead of the cabinets. (I can then use it as a mobile office when working.) I really enjoy figuring out what to do next, and stealing ideas from others. It's also great when you find some neat item that would be perfect in a LR, even though that's not what it was designed for. (Like the "Hockey puck" halogen lights I'm going to use that are intended for kitchens.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Feb 6 19:22:35 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 19:22:35 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: More! > > (In the next lesson, we learn how Landy and Rangey had 2 sons, Def and > > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Please go on! > - Stephen I'll second that emotion! (Do we sit, stand or kneel during this part?) singing hallelujias... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 23:01:20 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:01:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Leaf springs Tom Stevenson wonders..... > By the way, who is Rube Goldberg? Is he of the same ilk as > Heath-Robinson? Haven't a clue who this Heath-Robinson is/was but Rube Goldberg (1883-1970) was an American cartoonist who drew fantistically complicated devices that preformed the simplest operations. These typically involved chickens laying eggs, candles burning ropes, balls rolling down ramps, buckets of water, gogs, gears, levers and anything else you could imagine. The term "a Rube Goldberg" usually is used to describe a device that is way to complicated for what it has to do (like the clutch/brake linkage on a Ser I)!! This term sadly isn't used as much as it used to, except by us "old farts".. :) I think that there is some engineering school here in the States that has a Rube Goldberg contest every year. The students have to design and build some really rediculous machine. And, it has to work, too! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 23:01:49 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:01:49 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: rover maintanence John Hess changes his oil.... > While changing the oil, I was able to locate the source of an oil leak (I > think). I believe oil is leaking from the adapter/block interface; I ------------ > So, is there a gasket there? There must be, right? Part number please? John... can't help with the part number.. Seems there should be a gasket there... If all else fails, make one yourself. Brown paper bag works fine for that sort of stuff or you can go to an auto parts store and buy some gasket material. Clean up the adaptor and trace out the outline. There is also a technique where you use a very light hammer (a tack hammer works well). Hold the paper against the surface you want to make the gasket for and tap the paper with the hammer. You have to tap hard enough to leave an outline of the surface but *not* hard enough to damage the metal surface. If you do it right, you can usually seperate the "gasket" from the surrounding material without having to cut anything. It works, really. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Feb 06 23:02:20 1995 Date: Mon, 06 Feb 1995 23:02:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: US Military Specs? Roland wonders.... > Why did the US use Land Rovers as opposed to Hummvees, what model > LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers. I believe that it was 110's and the US Army Rangers purchased them. The story I heard was that during the "Desert Storm" operation, the Rangers were sufficiently impressed when they saw 110's pulling out Hummers that were stuck in the sand. (I could be wrong, but it *does* sound good!) Also, you gotta remember, the Hummers were designed for any idiot to drive - diesel engine and automatic transmission. (Not that there's anything wrong with a diesel.) The transmissions were prone to failure because the motor pool jockeys didn't know how to adjust them, or some such nonsense. The 110 was a *much* better choice. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 6 23:04:44 1995 Date: Mon, 6 Feb 1995 23:04:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re:New Range Rover..and more. On Mon, 6 Feb 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > My Land Rover is semi-Fabulous and was a bargain at only $375 US. Hmmm, not bad. Mine was $1500 with a pto winch (Koenig), but then again that's denoted in the northern Peso & it is a 109 Station Wagon. > My Land Rover is capable of being started in any gear combination including 3 hi > & 3 lo. Why would this be a big deal. > > New interior, > Mine could use one none Original interior included in purchase price. Actually in very good condition (stored in the basement) > My seat belts do not retract when parked at an angle Mine has no seat belts to retract at any angle & none are required (seat belts required after 1972 in Canada, 1968 in the US I believe) > > 3.) Winch mount wanted. (Now available) > Mine mounts to the front none So does mine, but there are others in OVLR that have the centre mounted type as well as rear mounted winchesFrom Mike Rooth Tue Feb 7 9:13:47 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 9:13:47 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: More! > > > Disco, and how Disco killed Def -- ??) > > Please go on! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California I agree.I cant wait for what happens when Joe Lucas says "Let there be light". Cheers Mike Rooth From SE THOMAS 7 95 Feb GMT 1912 Date: 7 Feb 95 12:05:23 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: 2286 or 2052????? In August I bought a 1964 IIA 2.25 Diesel (so I thought). It didn't go too fast (they don't), it was noisy (they are, you know that) and it was very smoky. No problem, new intake hose, recon injectors, re- timing should improve it. It did, a bit. It was going through oil like nobody's business, and only getting 15- 18 mpg, well we only paid 950 pounds, we knew it would take some work. So over the last week we have removed the engine and on Friday we took it to be rebored. Yesterday I was told that my 2.25 was in fact just a 2 litre. Aside from the shell-shock (well I expected it to have worn larger not smaller) it didn't bother me, aside from the fuel and oil consumption I was happy with it. But I need to know two things, can I get rebore size pistons, rings and main bearings if the crank needs regrinding? Also when we removed the valve compressor springs and collets there were no oil control seals on top of the valve guides. If the bore turns out to be okay could this have been the engine oil problem I was having?? On the other hand could it have been compounding the problem???? Thanks in advance, I will send this on even though I don't have the engine numbers on me at the moment, but after reading up I think I must have the late 50's 2052 engine, I will check the bore size with the garage. Yours in confusion Stephen Thomas (0121 452 1405) From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 7 09:11:27 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:11:27 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: 2286 or 2052????? "DIESEL ENGINES 322" Now class, what we have here is a small bore version of the same engine....... the 2 liter has "wet sleeves" and the normal pratice is to just to replace the pistons and sleeves....I have a series one club news letter and someone had a set of pistons and cylinders for sale cheap...do you think I can find the newsletter?...ha! It must have been #73 or 74.... the pistons are also different on top. the later engines were fitted with a modified swirl chamber to reduce noise (Ummm fellas?..It didn't work...) so even if you got a different block (say a 2.25 petrol, fit your rods,crank and cam,new 2.25 diesel pistons) I'm not sure the 2.25 diesel pistons will work with the early head.....if the sleeves are good in the 2 liter, I'd fit new rings and let it go....as to the valve seals, the early engines were fitted with "O" rings *inside* the valve guides... if you say that there is no provision for these, I'd have new guides fitted that take the the later seals (external).... Perhapse a newer 2.25 or a 2.5 might be cheaper in the long run? steve...... PS if you use the wet sleeves..replace the top and bottom seals on the cylinders...otherwise you will go from wet sleeves to wet sump in no time what so ever!!! "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From "Lapa, Hank" Tue Feb 07 08:02:06 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 95 08:02:06 EST From: "Lapa, Hank" Subject: US Military Rovers Here's what I know from being there... The Land-Rover fits into a V-22 Osprey (tilt-rotor aircraft) and a Hummer doesn't. I used to work with folks supporting the Navy's V-22 Office, and coincidentally saw a viewgraph of that beloved silhouette inside the hold of one of these things. I think this is the seminal reason that US Army Rangers here in the US had need for L-Rs. Since the Army pulled out of the V-22 program, leaving the Marines to fend for themselves, the Army has no compelling reason to keep them. Perhaps they should turn them over to the Marines against the day the USMC has a few billion extra dollars not being spent in Somalia or Haiti to actually buy some V-22s for their legitimate work. Also, in some places where US forces maintain(ed) a presence, local law dictates that vehicles be purchased on the host economy. Thus the Navy EOD Team Rangey I saw outside my hangar at the US Naval Air Station/International Airport in Bermuda. Similarly, I understand other Yank EOD units (in Scotland, for example) have driven Rovers. Series Two, Through-and-Through, Hank From Mike Rooth Tue Feb 7 14:44:10 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 14:44:10 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: 2286 or 2052????? Steve, LRW mag tells us that the 2litre was prone to cracked heads and warns to check carefully.Certaianly valve guide oil seals will add to oil consumption.I woudl suggest John Craddock as the best place to try for spares for it.The 2.25 has a bore of 3.562" with a 3.5" stroke(this is according to LRO).I would imagine the 2litre has the same stroke but was bored out. Be interested to know how you get on. Cheers Mike Rooth From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Tue Feb 7 08:19:48 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 08:19:48 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch In message <9502060110.AA09838@ InterServ.Com> Mark Talbot writes: > All, > Put the engine and gearbox back in my SIII this weekend, yep even with 3 foot [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > tried the one-man-bleed-kit on the clutch system ??? > Mark E-Z bleed is the only thing i've tried that works for me. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Russell Burns Tue Feb 7 8:23:32 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 8:23:32 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Rube Goldberg > I went to the Rube Goldberg enginerring school of fine Arts.... > Where else would I learn to build such creative enginerring masterpieces. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 47 lines)] > > #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol > --IAA14467.792174103/lint.cisco.com-- From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Tue Feb 7 11:46:58 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 11:46:58 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello gang: Miss you all. Mercruiser running great! Does anyone know where I could buy ant Doormobile pieces from without having to deal with Mike Smith at East Coast Landrover (the self proclaimed North American representative for the Doormobile Owners Club UK)? If you know of a roof, bunks, seats, or any other bits, please E-mail me directly. Thanks. R&D P.S. still have one more rool bar that is not spoken for if anyone wants to "get in" on the deal at cost! From Russell U Wilson Tue Feb 7 12:09:35 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 12:09:35 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Hummers(Hummve) I just had to throw my opinion in to this as one who as put about 5,000 miles on a Military hummve. I spent 4 years in the U.S. Army and drove the sh*t out of my hummer. Don't take this as a slag on Rovers, god knows I love mine, but....and here is the big BUT. The hummer is without equal off road. Here is the flip side though, the thing is a pig on the road. Everything that makes it so great off-road makes it a kidney jarring beast on pavement. Given a choice (in my dreams) of being given a 110 or a Hummer I'd take the 110. As to why the Rangers had use for some 110s I can only guess but here is something for everyone to ponder. The U.S. is the only country to use the Hummer. IF, and I say IF, you were an American force ie Rangers and you were in a place that you might not want to be caught in...A Hummer makes it kind of hard to be passed off as some of the locals.....or UN. Here is another tid-bit. One of the Rangers primary functions is to provide support for the Delta Force which tries to use all non-U.S. equipment in case of capture we (the U.S.) can deny that the men are ours. This is all guess work combined with what I've seen in the past. So I'd say that they were going to do something somewhere that they were not supposed to be and needed a vehicle that would not scream HERE COMES THE AMERICANS.. That is of course is these 110s even exist....hell the Delta force doesn't even exist...right? ha ha ha ha ha.....;) Cheers from Pittsburgh Russ From Morgan Hannaford Tue Feb 7 09:15:36 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 09:15:36 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Hybrid vigor Well, I'm giving a lecture to my Biology 1B class tonight here at U.C. Berkeley. The topic I think I'll cover is HYBRID VIGOR. Hybrid vigor is a well known phenomenon in biology circles where hybrids of two, inbred lineages are usually better competitors and more fit. A good example is mutt dogs. They are usually smarter and express fewer genetic diseases. Well, enough bio diatribe, I have to go pet my dog..... "Here Rover"......... Ciao, Morgan From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Sat Feb 4 17:47:14 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 17:47:14 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Lorry insurance /4. How about insurance? Do people find the rates particularly high? I doubt /they are below average, but one never knows. I'll contct my agent, but /wonderedif anyone had any insurance horror stories with D90's, particularly /in the wakeof certain idiotic comments on how they roll. Are insurance rates for 90s bad in the US, then? (At LAST!!! Something more expensive? Yeeeeaaaahh!) My 90 in the UK is unsured in the same band as things like Escort 1300s. They are seen as a low risk vehicle - slower than anything except a milk float and nobody bothers with insurance claims when they ding a landrover - the textured look adds street cred. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Sat Feb 4 18:02:50 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 18:02:50 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Tires....again /Just to confuse the issue...I've got 205 16 radials *with* /tubes(the same ones I had when it wore 6.00 16 cross ply /boots) on my 88".No problems yet...touch wood. Any advance on all radials, 3 running tubes, front right tubeless? (Bit of an oversight, that.........:( +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Sat Feb 4 18:11:18 1995 Date: Sat, 4 Feb 1995 18:11:18 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Lorries and Hummers > LR are these based on, and how do they differ from other Land Rovers. /I believe that it was 110's and the US Army Rangers purchased them. The /story I heard was that during the "Desert Storm" operation, the Rangers were /sufficiently impressed when they saw 110's pulling out Hummers that were /stuck in the sand. (I could be wrong, but it *does* sound good!) Also, you There was a very funny article on Top Git^H^Hear where the reviewpillock was testing out a Hummer dolled-up for the road market. He got it bogged on a gentle sand slope (I'd have given it a go in my old Escort with a run up.....). Just at the most embarassing moment, a Disco putters disdainfully past with no discernable effort. /gotta remember, the Hummers were designed for any idiot to drive - diesel Seems some dont managed it........ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Feb 7 10:35:57 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 10:35:57 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Tires, again and again... > Just to confuse the issue...I've got 205 16 radials *with* > tubes(the same ones I had when it wore 6.00 16 cross ply > boots) on my 88".No problems yet...touch wood. none Maybe this is just one of those old rover tales, but I've been told by my wholesale tire dealer (and others) that the tubes for bias ply tires won't hold up in a radial tire due to the flexing and the resultant heat, with predictable and unpleasant consequences. Anybody know if this bit of conventional wisdom holds water, er... air? Walt Swain, 1967 109 IIA Safari SW Davis, CA From "RUPERT.OJ.HINE" <9155557@arran.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk> Tue Feb 7 19:03:12 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 19:03:12 +0000 From: "RUPERT.OJ.HINE" <9155557@arran.sms.edinburgh.ac.uk> Subject: Introduction & Wheels/Tyres Hi, Having read the digest for a little while I thought that I should possibly say hello. I was introduced to the list by Ian Stuart (Do I admit that?) and am a Vet Student at Edinburgh University in Sunny Scotland. On the more important side I too am a LR owner, although mine is one of Solihull's most aerodynamic creations - the 101. A SIII 88" owner before that I managed to buy the forward control last summer from Crook Bros. in Preston (UK) with only 6,000 km on the clock. Needless to say it is one of the thirstier of the Land Rovers - running a lovely big 3.5 V8! I noticed today that Stefan Jacob commented: > On the 16" rims you can go as far as 9.00, though I would strongly advise > to swap for 1-ton rims in that case, or your turn-around radius will be Are the "1-ton" rims that you are talking about the 101 rims, because they don't fit standard Series Land Rover hubs. The Series have five wheel studs whereas the 101 (just to be different) had six. Anyway, happy rovering, Rupert From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Feb 07 16:26:33 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 16:26:33 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: TC 2000's My nephew in Eugene, Oregon has an opportunity to buy a '67 TC2000 for $450. At that price, I told him he probably couldn't go wrong, especially as it runs and has parts and mechanical manuals. I mentioned about the DeDion axle tubes that can get crushed by casual placement of floor jacks, but couldn't really comment much further on what to look for. More importantly, do any of out northwest members have a recommendation on a garage/mechanic in Eugene/Salem/Portland area? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Lloyd Allison Tue Feb 7 22:10:36 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 22:10:36 GMT From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Solihull Joel Reiter's home page has the Rover tour on the world wide web - link to it from homes (Does anyone else have a home page featuring Land-Rovers?) Am I correct in thinking that Land-Rover import Range Rovers, Discoveries and D90s (which are a special variant) into the USA but not D110s or D130s ? Can anyone tell me what dates the various imports (re-)started? Are V8 D90s still being imported? The UK D90s and D110s now seem to be limited to the 300 series 2.5 Tdi engine. (Australia is importing V8 RRs, V8 Discoveries (not sure about diesel) and Tdi D110s and D130s only - not D90s.) Lloyd From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Feb 8 00:33:12 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 00:33:12 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) (+) On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Russell U Wilson wrote: > Everything that makes it so great off-road makes it a kidney > jarring beast on pavement. It's an experience! > The U.S. is the only country to use the Hummer. Not quite. Gen. Michael Rose and other VIP's use Hummers in ex-Yugoslavia. Also, a couple af years ago during an AMF exercise i got a lift in a Hummer registered by the army of Luxembourg. I think the two guys WERE the army of Luxembourg :-) Also got a lift with some italians in a Fiat mil off roader. It was basically a Fiat 127 (too small to be known in the US) with 4wd and taller subchassis. It could smell various oils, petrol, exhaust, warm plastic, rotting rubber, spicy food, wet upholstery and a few other things i couldn't identify. It sounded like everything was just about to fall apart. Nice chaps though. Later sv/aurens From Roger Sinasohn Tue Feb 7 15:55:02 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 15:55:02 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Matchbox Land Rover Fire Engine Matchbox has come out with a remake of a 1948 Land Rover Fire Engine. It's 1/43 scale, and costs $26.95. It's only available via mail order, or through one of 4 Matchbox Collectibles outlets on the east coast. The phone number to order or get more info is (800)858-0102. I've ordered one, and will let you all know when it gets here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 07 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 07 Feb 95 19:36:46 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest 7 th Feb Richard , sorry !! for moving birmingham further north , my excuse is that I have worked in the aluminium radiator industry fo the past 18 years and exposure to aluminium is noted for it's effect on the memoty, BAD. and I have used neither of those airports in my travels. As an aside, my home in Stockton On Tees,( near to Teesside airport ) up in't hills is called Solihull, when we bought the house 3 years ago my wife wanted to give it a name, the name she mentioned sounded to me like that of a nursing home so I told her and said why not give it a good name like Solihull ( honest I was joking ) but she adopted the name, our neighbour is an ex Solihull resident and she says she can't imagine anyone wanting to name thier home after THAT place. John Hess, the gasket was part number 598354 but it has been superseded, follow Micheals advice and make your own from a piece of cornflake packet, also makes good differential gaskets. Diesel engine rebuild, buy the ROVER manual, not the rubbish Haynes and follow EXACTLY the valve timing procedure, this is important for the 'power'. Do not follow the mechanics method of finding the high point on the cam, it has a flat profile. Then follow the pictures for inserting the pump drive gear. The timing marks for the pump are under a small steel plate on the side of the pump, ser 2 did not have an external mark, this was added on ser 3. After running the engine for a while time it by ' ear', fine tune the position of the pump by moving it very slightly in the opposite direction to the arrow on the nameplate and try it until you get the right engine knock and no smoke. Richard asks about steering rods :- jack up the front of the vehicle to raise the tyres from the ground turn the steering wheel from lock to lock and count the turns, at each extermity check that the wheels are clear on the springs on the inside of the tyre. half the number of turns and turn the steering wheel this number, thus the wheel is in the centre position. At this stage ignore the spoke positions. the front wheels should be aligned for straight ahead, whether they are or not proceed as follows. look at the steering idler top arm, this should be parallel to the front crossmember that it is on top of. if not, adjust the steering rod length by slackening off the steering joint clamp screws and shortening or lengthening the rod by rotating it, one end has a left hand screw thread and the other a right hand screw thread. Examine the bottom arm on the steering idler, this should be pointing straight ahead, that is parallel to the side of the chassis., if it is not remove it and refit in the correct position, Now are the wheels aligned for the straight ahead position, if not adjust the length of the drag link as described for the steering rod, until the wheels are straight., check the full lock to lock position to ensure that you have full and equal travel both ways. While you are at it, particularly if it is a 109, you will notice that lock is restricted by along screw in the swivel housing which strikes a plate on the axle end, saw of the extension at the nut, or try to tighten it and it will shear in this position or remove it and replace with a short screw only. this will reduce your turning circle. Before you start worrying about it, you will only travel on full lock at very low speeds, unless you are an off road racer so it will not damage your transmission to have FULL lock. If this does not improve your steering then give me a call, if you want to increase the lock further there are other mods to do. now that the steering is central, remove and replace the steering wheel in the position that suits your view, on a series 3 also centre the indicator switch canceling boss. The procedure youa re following to lubricate the steering box is correct. Follow the same exercise every day for 2 or three weeks or until two days in a row you cant put in any more oil, the 90 oil takes AGES to seep through the gaps in the bearings inside the relay into the bottom bearing. Mike Rooth writes about using tubes with 205 x 16 tyres, a word of advice, " always insist upon Michelin or Avon 205 x 16 tubes for Radial tyres." " Do not use tubes that are marked for 6.00 or 6.50 x 16 tyres. The radial tubes ( which can be used with cross ply tyres ) are of a softer material designes to be gripped by the radial tyre. If you use the crosss ply tube you will be plagued with punctures Many tyre shops fit ther cross ply tubes becuaste they are much cheaper than the radial tubes. it.s not worth it as with the radial tyres a puncture will often result in damaging the soft wall beyond repair. This also applies to the Michelin XY, XCL, XS, XC 4x4 etc range of tyres. use the Michelin tuibes for the tyre size. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. Next look at the From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Feb 7 20:06:11 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 20:06:11 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Newby and already some "steering" Qs RP Kleihorst writes: > A problem with the LWB is that the steering was rather vague. On the check > I had already noticed two worn tie-rods on the steering(?) arm: the arm that [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > the wrong steering arm? Can somebody measure up a correct LWB IIa steering > before I scrounge through the pile of SWB II parts and find one thats even > worse. The arm you are talking about (relay to right swivel housing) can be used to adjust the position of your steering wheel. However, given the measurements above, and the claim that the lever on the relay arm is straight when the steering wheel is straight (where are the tyres pointing in this case??) leads this lro to wonder if maybe someone at some point in time removed the lever and put it back on one or two splines off (of where it was beforehand). The *two* levers on the relay should be at 90 degree angles to one another, and the lower one should point directly forward when the wheels are pointing straight forward. Bugger the measurements. Put your new tie rod ends on (got 'em yet?), make certain your two levers on the relay are 90 degs apart, and simply twist the arm (relay to right swivel pin hosing...the steering drag link tube) until you have the steering wheel where you want it (while your wheels still point directly forward). The *other* arm (the steering track rod, that connects the two wheels) is used to adjust your toe in. Again, bugger the measurements. The toe in should be adjusted so that the front of the wheels are cantalevered inward 1/16" relative to the rear of the front wheels. The easy way that I was once told about (and it works) is to jack up the front end, mark each tire with a strip of paint all around the outer perimeter, make a jig-out of a nail and a 2x4-, then mark each tire (all around your freshly painted perimeter), and make your measurements (at 3 and 9 o'clock). A third hand is helpful. > Also, while busy giving long due maintenance, I tried to oil the steering > relay in situ. According to the manuals, you'll have to remove two of the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > upper relay arm is definetily in the way. In the end, I wasn't able to get > any oil in, it just kept pouring out of the opposite bolt hole. Oi. There are a couple of types of relays here. I think one has one bolt near the top and the other has two (someone???). You sure the manual states to remove the oil seal retainer bolts??? There should be at least one bolt near the top of the relay housing. You should be able to snake some oil into it even without allowing for pressure to escape if you use a thin hose or some such. Then again, if all the oil you did add came out the opposite bolt hole then maybe it is full??? cheers, rd/nigel From Steven M Denis Tue Feb 7 20:25:09 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 20:25:09 -0500 (EST) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Tires, again and again... Radial tubes are thicker...you can feel the difference when 'ya pick 'em up....Radial=heavy...bias=light.....I got really good at this when the light in the stock room broke and nobody could figure out where the wiring went.."Heft,heft,heft..Yep it's a radial!"... really and for true.... steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From Craig Murray Wed Feb 8 12:44:25 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 12:44:25 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Diesel woes!!! Hi all, The other weekend I was driving along, when all of a sudden there was a load knock comming from the motor. So I got towed home, and pondered the dint in the pocket that this knock was going to cause. Turns out that the pin that stops the combustion chamber from spinning round had planted it self on the top of no. 2 piston. But how can that happen I hear you say, as the pin is held in by the head gasket and the block! Well the only way it could have gone in is through the combustion chamber, which it did by knocking a hole in the top of it. But this is not the major woe. When I was building the motor I had a new combustion chamber fitted to no. 2 cylinder, and it turns out that the machining joint made it so that the combustion chamber was recessed in the head, not level, so the combustion chamber has been copying the piston and moving up and down, the only problem is that when moving down, it has managed to wear through the head gasket and into the block and the piston. Besides a block and piston shave, can any one out there see any way to fix the block, at the moment I am just going to chuck another 2.25 diesel in that was pulled out of a series III when the owner wanted a 350 chev put in, and is ment to run ok. Yours, woefully pissed off, and off the road again!!!!!!!! ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Craig Murray Wed Feb 8 13:12:24 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 13:12:24 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Engine conversions Hi all, My experiance with engine conversions is that I had a 161 holden motor in my series 1, and now I have a 2.25 diesel in it. The Holden soon died of dust inhalation (Does any one acctually know how to spell this word??) and the holden also had no power or torque at low rpm, and this is still with all original transmission. The only non Land Rover part of my transmission is a Macnamara Diff lock in the rear axle, I would say non original, but I have Series II diffs a Series III Motor, Series IIA F sufix gear box and the original Series 1 Transfer case. Also of note, when you start uping the power of the motor, the transmission starts to take a pounding. My brother with his 253 V8 boasts that he has only broken a front diff, and that was because the pinion came loose, but does not menchion that he repleaced his gear box because first gear was missing a tooth, and when the gear box was inspected by the local Land Rover guru, when I needed a gear box, that every thing inside it was stuffed, so it would not have lasted much longer. When my Land Rover is running, every thing may over take it on the high way, but, when I am up in the mountains it has no problems, and normally gets to places with a lot less trouble than every thing else. This is my opinion, but if you are going to do a conversion, do it your self, if it breaks a million miles from no-where, then you know how it goes together, and might have an idea of how to fix it. ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | No Hill to Steep! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | No Ditch to Deep! From Andrew Steele Tue Feb 07 21:17:49 1995 Date: Tue, 07 Feb 1995 21:17:49 -0500 From: Andrew Steele Subject: US Jan 95 sales totals Just a quick summary from the Wall Street Journal this week, some of these are interesting (I think---) Jan 1995 Jan 1994 BMW 6,094 5,053 +20.6 LR 1,097 380 +188.7 Jaguar 857 827 +3.6 Porsche 451 196 +130.1 Total Truck Domestic 143,251 138,262 +3.6 Total Truck Import 5,676 5,777 -1.7 Well, Land Rover was the obvious % sales increase leader this month. Is it time to buy stock in BMW? Andrew Dayton, OH ad158@dayton.wright.edu ** please call if you find an unwanted diesel LR in the midwest, thanks. From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Feb 7 18:30:40 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 1995 18:30:40 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) (+) To add to this growing bit of trivia, there was an AP (I think) photo in the local rag last week showing a long column of Jordanian Army Humvees doing their thing in the desert. The best and most interesting part was the Land Rover 90 leading the whole thing. No fool, that commanding officer. Regards, Walt Swain On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Russell U Wilson wrote: > > Everything that makes it so great off-road makes it a kidney > > jarring beast on pavement. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] > Later > sv/aurens From sohearn@InterServ.Com Tue Feb 7 19:26:49 1995 Date: Tue, 7 Feb 95 19:26:49 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: Genesis > I'll second that emotion! (Do we sit, stand or kneel during this part?) > singing hallelujias... I'd say we sit behind the wheel in our Rovers. What better than to be IN the altar, eh? +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 07 95 Feb EST 1923 Date: 07 Feb 95 23:26:50 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Importing and all that good stuff Those of you who have written recently about importing Your Land Rover : If you Email us your telephone #, we can give you a few pointers that might help. Uncle Brad - what an excellent rendition of my exact experience, although I think you actually got a bit further than I. I also inquired about the EPA/DOT situation and got the same run around. Would love to know if anyone has sent any $ yet. Did you get any info on the duty/tax situation whic has not been paid on the vehicles. Cheers, Leslie Stutsman U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co. Ph/Fax 813-954-4304 "2 Land Rovers Available in Florida and others for building to spec - email for more info" From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Feb 08 00:11:14 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 00:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Bleeding a SIII clutch William Grouell screws springs into his slave.... > I have a spring loaded bleed screw in the slave. Just loosen the bleed > screw about a turn, attach hose to jar (if you care), pump slow 'till you > feel no more bubbles (keep the reservour full), tighten screw, remove > tube. Marvelous little bleed screws - until they have been in a year or so... Had them on the brakes on Fern.. The little rubber dust caps got lost in the mud somewhere and the moisture/mud/whathaveyou did nasty things to the spring. Had to replace them with regular bleed screws. I suppose they might be OK on my Spitfire, which hardly ever goes out in bad weather, but not so good on the Rovers. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Keerock2@aol.com Wed Feb 8 01:02:06 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 01:02:06 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: Re: Those surplus110s & 90s Brad Blevins writes: >I finally got hold of an outfit in VA which is supposedly selling US Military >spec. Land Rover 110s & 90s (1992) which are still in the crates. This is an >equipment broker, as far as I can tell. >I introduced myself as the editor of the Aluminum Workhorse magazine and told >him that I was interested in letting our readers know the real story on the >vehicles and perhaps even getting one myself (all true). The fellow I spoke >to said yes, there are a bunch of them here in the U.S. (450 somewhere in >Indiana) and more to come (for a total of 2000). And yes they could be >purchased in smallish lots, perhaps as small as 10 vehicles. Yes, I'd love to hear anything more you can find out about these things. And hey, do they come with the Brooklyn Bridge, or is that a dealer option?? >And one of the postings mentioned that some of the >engines were 170hp, 6.5 liter diesel V-8s. Wow, that's power. However, I have to cross-reference this response to the recent debate here on the net about engine-swapping. To me the joy of driving a vehicle, especially a special-interest vehicle, is driving it just as the engineers planned the thing. In high school I had a wonderful, stock '67 Ford Mustang (well, it did have huge back tires and a little rake, but all else was legit) that would blow the doors off of any other muscle car around, including the idiots chopping the hell out of their Mustang's engine compartments to make room for a big block Chevy. It falls into the pride of driving/ownership department. >Well, it seems that the fellow I spoke to couldn't give me a satisfactory >answer to my EPA/DOT concern, although he tried. I spoke to his boss about it >and he gave me some B.S. about how all military vehicles are exempt from >these requirements. I can hear myself telling my local California DMV clerk >THAT! LOL. Yes, the Cal DMV has NO sense of humor. And by the way, they sure didn't care about any military vehicle exemption wFrom Mike Rooth Wed Feb 8 9:57:52 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 9:57:52 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) > miles on a Military hummve. I spent 4 years in the U.S. Army and drove > the sh*t out of my hummer. Don't take this as a slag on Rovers, god [ truncated by lro-digester (was 27 lines)] > ha ha.....;) > Cheers from Pittsburgh > Russ Oh,great.So you try to pass yourselves off as *us*.Then we get the flak. Isnt that taking the "Special Relationship" a bit *too* far? I mean,you chaps could always try to join the SAS,you know.No need to just *play* at it:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From Mike Rooth Wed Feb 8 12:07:59 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 12:07:59 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Diesel woes!!! Dear woefully pissed off.... There used to be a process called metal spraying.It involved the deposition of new metal on worn areas.I once,many years ago,had a steering worm built up this way.I dont know whether the process is still in use,or whether its any good on cast iron,but it would seem to offer some hope if it is,in fact still available. Cheers Mikw Rooth From Jimmy Patrick Wed Feb 8 07:29:02 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 07:29:02 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: LR homepage Lloyd, My homepage has a picture of Mabel, my 1960 Series II. It also has a picture of Jon Ward's Rover that I stole from someone else's page. It is at: http://www.netpress.com/jimmyp/ Take a look. I will be going on a Land-Rover camping trip in Wales this weekend. I will take some photos of the other rovers and add a page with those photos next week. -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 08 95 Feb EST 1909 Date: 08 Feb 95 09:17:04 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Wheels/Tyres... and no end in sight > Are the "1-ton" rims that you are talking about the 101 rims, > because they don't fit standard Series Land Rover hubs. The Series > have five wheel studs whereas the 101 (just to be different) had six. No, no... nothing to do with the 101 Forward Control. There used to exist a S.III 109 HCPU cab truck 1 Ton, very rare specimen, probably never made an appearance Stateside. It had rims that stuck out more. These rims, in a slightly modified form (6.5" as opposed to 5.5" on the 109 HCPU), are nowadays used on the Defender 130 HCPU, the parts number of those rims is ANR1534 or ANR1534PM ('PM' meaning that they are finished with black primer). They fit on any Series hub without a problem, except that it does put a bit more strain on the bearings and, in the absence of power steering, require a bit more muscle. *However* , when suggesting 9.00 tires as a possibility for 16" rims I forgot to warn that on anything else than a Lightweight you would be required to put HD springs & shocks all around and have to cut away part of the front fender to allow for wheel articulation, alternatively to lift the frame by _at_least_ 4" by means of longer shackles and spring mount brackets, plus distance pieces under the rubber frame bump stops. That is, if you want to maintain full off-road articulation capabilities. Stefan From Dixon Kenner Wed Feb 8 09:44:16 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 09:44:16 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Solihull On Tue, 7 Feb 1995, Lloyd Allison wrote: > Am I correct in thinking that Land-Rover import > Range Rovers, Discoveries and D90s (which are a special variant) > into the USA but not D110s or D130s ? Correct. > Can anyone tell me what dates the various imports (re-)started? Stopped: LR = 1974 RR = Never imported into USA = 1971 (Canada) Started LR = 1992 (Defender 110, 525 units to USA/Canada) RR = 1987 (USA) 1989 (Canada) (two years later than USA) Above is official stats. Lots (100-1000+) of LR's were imported into Canada between 1974 & 1992 by various governments, mining & oil companies et cetera. > Are V8 D90s still being imported? Yes, for another year or so. Rgds From BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU Wed Feb 08 10:15:54 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 95 10:15:54 EST From: BAWILL01@UKCC.UKY.EDU Subject: U.S. Army Land-Rovers For those interested, in the 29 December 1992 edition of "The Times" (London) an article appeared entitled "Land Rover Wins Order For 48 Special Operations Vehicles From U S Army." The article, located on page 4D, includes a rather nice photo of the model as well as an explaination as to why the Yanks wanted the Land Rovers and what was modified upon them for this role. Most major universities subscribe to The Times and your best hope of finding this article is to check the microfilm archives since most institutions do not yet have the newspaper on CD-ROM. From Bill Yerazunis Wed Feb 8 11:07:26 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 11:07:26 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: Drover vs. Hummer Well, I went through the "disco vs. hummer" battle last April, when I needed a new 4WD. I test-drove 'em both- new vehicles only. The disco accellerated like a midsize sedan, maybe a little better. At 80 MPH on the Interstate (that is, keeping up with traffic) the noise level inside was quite acceptable (important for prevention of driver fatigue). The seats were comfortable; I could sprawl out in the back. Off-road, the disco was, well, weird. It would go anywhere inside my "courage limit" (unlike my previous 4WD). No grinding, no revving the engine and modulating torque with the clutch to keep traction. It just sorta _went_. Quietly. Gently. The hummer, on the other hand, was loud. It was loud standing still and even louder on the road. It could barely make 80 MPH with a mile-long running start. Interior noise was intolerable at 80- now I *know* why military convoys are typically going only 55- it's so the passengers can hear themselves think! And you think a 109 has a big turning circle- the Hummer is worse! And the hummer was huge, but there was no space inside! Instead, there's a center console the size of a large coffee table or maybe a coffin, and it makes the vehicle clearly a 4-seater at best. The station-wagon version had space in the back, but not a lot- only about three and a half feet vertically- not what you'd expect from a vehicle requiring a seven foot roof clearance! The Hummer had somewhat better ground clearance, but this was only demonstratable with the salesman at the wheel- I refused to attempt the path he suggested. { Courage limit, anyone? } The final straw: a friend who'd spent four years in the Army suggested that if I wanted to drive a Hummer, I'd better sign up for a tour of duty as a Humvee mechanic, because that was the only way I'd be able to keep one running. Everything about the critter is weird, you need special tools for just about everything. "They work great- but when it breaks, you need a humvee mechanic. Really" And the Disco cost $10,000 less. :-) -Bill (white 94 Disco, 27Kmiles in 9 months!) From labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Wed Feb 8 09:20:08 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 09:20:08 PST From: labranch@sybase.com (Jason LaBranch) Subject: Speedometer Replacement Hey Nuts, Has anybody ever found/looked for a replacement speedometer for the series workhorses -- I mean a good cheap replacement as apposed to the $170 Land Rover one. (ouch) Mine is shot. I oppened it up and it actually is defective from the factory. It worked for 18 or so years but non the less has a production flaw. While we are on the subject, what are the requirements for the speedo. Measurements? Ratios? etc... I have 31" tires. One last comment. Wouldn't it be nice if the LandRover speedo's odometer went up to 999,999 miles rather than 99,999? Jason LaBranch | To find your way, look within! Parallel Products Group | -- AAA Road Atlas Sybase Engineering (510) 922-4690 | From RLZiegler@aol.com Wed Feb 8 12:51:16 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 12:51:16 -0500 From: RLZiegler@aol.com Subject: Hess 6cyl. oil adaptor gasket >From parts cat. #4781 (dated 1966) there are 2 gaskets involved between the adaptor and the 6 cyl. block: Joint washer front #274609 and Jt. washer rear #274104. Both will need to be replaced. From stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Wed Feb 08 14:27:14 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 14:27:14 -0500 From: stephen.thomas@tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Subject: Land Rover Rally in North Georgia, USA Fellow LR Owners: I have no affiliation with the following, but I do plan on attending. >From a flyer: First Annual Batesville Land Rover Rally in The Beautiful North Georgia Mountains March 5, 1995 You (or anyone else you know who likes to have a good time and is lucky enough to drive a Land Rover) are cordially invited to attend the 1st (yes 1st) Annual (optimistic, aren't we) Batesville (Good Morning America proved that there is a Batesville) Land Rover Rally. (Well, it's really just a bit of a bumpy drive through the beautiful, scenic National Forest.) If will be held on Sunday (the only day the Hennesey [local LR Dealer] guys can make it) March 5, 1995 (rain or shine, sleet or snow, unless it's really bad). We plan to meet between 8:00am and 9:00am at the Batesville General Store (intersection of SR 197 and GA 255, 12 miles northeast of Helen, Georgia) for breakfast. (The best anywhere around. You pay.) Then we will leave between 9:30am and 10:00am and take a beautiful trip (some mountain highways, some single lane dirt). Nothing too rough, just a bit challenging. The entire trip is about 50 miles long. We should arrive back in downtown (ho ho!) Batesville about 3:00pm. (Just in time to grab a burger or bowl of chili. You gotta pay again.) Refreshments will be served approximately half way through the trip (included in registration expenses). So, if you can come, (and we sure do hope you can) then just fill out the enclosed form and return it to us by Friday, February 17, 1995. If you have any questions, please give us a call at home 404-343-8283. We look forward to "rovering" with you, Margie and Don Directions: If you nee more details, just give us a call. Get to Helen, Georgia the best you know how. Then follow the signs to Unicoi State Park and once there, continue northeast on SR 356 until it comes to an end and runs into SR 197. Turn right onto SR 197 and go 1 mile. The Batesville General Store will be on the right just past the first stop sign. The phone number at the store is 706-947-3434 (just in case). Other Suggestions: The city of Helen is one of the number one tourist attractions in Georgia. How about coming up early and spending the weekend. The number at the Welcome Center is 706-878-2181. (Remember to bring your camera.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Please cut along dotted line ane mail to the address below.) I or We would like to come have some fun. _____ YES _____ NO There will be _____ adults _____ children _____ four-legged friends I'm enclosing a check to cover expenses. How about $5.00 for adults and $2.50 for children. Children under 12 and puppies (dogs) come for free. I'd also like to order some stuff to remember the fun I just know we're going to have. So I am including the extra $$$$$ to have these doodads ready when I get there. Tee Shirts ___S ___M ___L ___XL ___XXL @ $15.50 (+ $2.50 for XXL) = $_____ Sweat Shirts ___S ___M ___L ___XL ___XXL @ $25.50 (+ $3.00 for XXL) = $_____ Caps ___ @ $8.00 = $_____ TOTAL = $_____ Please make your checks for expenses and stuff payable to: Don or Margie Nelson 4010 Camden Way Alpharetta, HA 30202-4454 We look forward to seeing you and the fun of experiencing what the north Georgia mountains are about Ya'll come ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (404) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (404) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com From UncleBrad@aol.com Wed Feb 8 15:01:22 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 15:01:22 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Military Surplus Rover news I think the guys I finally ended up talking to are South American mafia types. After going around about the DOT & EPA requirements, I got the sense that they were uncomfortable talking more about these Land Rovers. Like maybe I was some sort of government spy trying to catch them in some illegal activity. I got a call back later saying that the vehicles are NOT in the country and are NOT for sale in the country and would I please NOT pass out their phone numbe (That's why I haven't given it out). Maybe they are worried that they could get into trouble even selling these vehicles here. Even later, I got a call from someone else telling me that he had called them up trying to arrange some sort of international deal and was told pretty much the same thing. He said that those guys mean serious business. I don't think they trusted him either, after being interrogated by me so recently, so he lost the opportunity to work anything out with them as far as I know. Bottom line on that avenue is "dead end". (I hope that's not an unfortunate choice of words.) See ya! Brad From Kelly Minnick Wed Feb 8 13:07:18 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 13:07:18 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Misc RE: Misc questions/comments I have some misc. questions/comments: 1. Most of the people I know are running stock Rover rims without tubes. This has not been a problem for me in the last 5 or so years. Are they suppose to leak? Maybe you shouldn't have told me! 2. Bladder for the 88" side tanks? If I get hit that hard from a side impact, will I still be alive? 3. Starter leads. I only have two. One ground wire and one to the relay. 4. Seems to me that if I only change the diffs from 4.7 to 3.54 I will have a 30.1 overall in first. (compared to 40:1) I've found in rough rock heaps that I need even slower than 40:1 to keep from tearing the vehicle up. Traction seems to be the problem, hence my ARB locker dream. You can have the torque to pull the 30:1, but I wouldn't want the limitations on slow-speed crawling. (hence back to my RR trans/transfer & diffs!) It's not easy, but it's FUN! Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From "George S. Reiswig" Wed Feb 8 14:46:06 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 1995 14:46:06 -0700 (MST) From: "George S. Reiswig" Subject: Defender 90 Hello, all. Forgive me for signing up prematurely, but I may own a Landy someday. I was hoping to find out a bit more about them from the experts, who are bound to give me their objective, unbiased opinions! My current vehicle does very well off road, and on road as well. I test drove a D90 in Colorado Springs at Christmas, but could not take the thing anywhere where challenging terrain presented itself. My Isuzu has a rear locking dif, 500 mile range with the stock tank, an apparently tighter turning circle, and is more comfortable on-road. The D90 was more comfortable on the tiny amount of dirt we DID find. I also like the utilitarian demeanor of the beast. So, all you D90 owners...why should I plop down such an exhorbitant amount of money for the D90? The salesman said that lockers or limited slips were unnecessary, due to the wheel travel. Well, maybe I shouldn't believe a claim like that from a salesman...what do you think? Also, how available are additinoal parts for it, such as a larger fuel tank? I will appreciate all input. As I am in digest mode, it would be most kind of you to e-mail me directly. Thanks again in advance. _______________________________________________________________________________ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ George Reiswig - '90 Isuzu Amigo Red Rock Four Wheelers ARB Rear Locker, Warn XD9000 Winch Southwest 4WD Association 32X11.50-15 BFG Moab MT, air tank Las Cruces 4WD Club Body armor and scratches WANTED: V-6 conversion, front limited slip, transfer case modification for lower final "God is dead..." - Neitzsche drive ratio. "Neitzsche is dead." - God +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Russell Burns Wed Feb 8 14:25:13 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 14:25:13 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Defender 90 1: It will pull a trailer. 2: I drover an 88 Isuzu trooper around the canyon lands, and my Range Rover could drive circles around it. I plan to test the d-90 in march. 3: Aluminum does not rust. 4: You can eat breakfast on the flat fenders 5: overbuilt 6000lbs GRVW 6: They have a personality (some blame this on the lucas electronics) Russ Burns 92 Range Rover 94 D-90 From bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Wed Feb 8 17:20:40 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 17:20:40 CST From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Subject: For Sale Dear friends I've found a larger LRR4^[[D(opps)Land Rover to replace my 88 with. So I must part with my first pride an joy to pay for the new one. I hope that you'll be able to help me as such here is my ad. '73-SIII 88 Limestone in color it's quite original in condition I have a spare engine for it I've replaced the original seats with Trakkers in Moorland. It;s Limestone in color(tan) and has all the original parts it came with Yes, it's a show winner. So if you or anyone you know is interested please e-mail me or call or wirite write me Ben Freeman (206)3653514 From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Wed Feb 8 18:39:01 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 18:39:01 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Series III 88 SPECS WANTED Hello, I've recently put myself in the market for a Series III 88, and I would like any specs anybody would like to give such as, gross weight, height to top of roof, minimum ground clearance, avaiable instruments. Also I wouldn't mind any pro's and cons about the Series III, just so as any cons are followed by which vehicle would provide a better item. Also, what would be the best year to look for? Thanks. -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Feb 08 15:51:02 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 15:51:02 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Military Land Rovers I was picking up some stuff I had bought yesterday at the gov't surplus auction on base yesterday and was talking with one of the fork lift operators. we were commenting on how the two M-151 jeep trailers had been sold for $375 (for one with out a tire and rim on one side, a flat on the other and no tail lights at all) and $400 for a mostly intact one. (IMO they were worth no more than $100). Anyway the fork lift guy was mentioning that Edwards Air Force base was dumping all of their trailers because of they had gotten rid of all of their jeeps and bought Hummers and Land Rovers. Now I did have my Land Rover with me, but I don't think he was ever in the position to be able to read any of the tags that said Land Rover. So as far as I could tell this was a completely unsolicited comment about Land Rovers from a guy who usually works at Edwards. I tried to press him on the matter, but he was called away to deal with another person. I have never been to Edwards, so I can't even attempt to confirm the rumor. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications Internation Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 08 95 Feb EST 1919 Date: 08 Feb 95 19:57:28 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Wednesdays digest. The 2 litre cylinder diesel cylinder head will fit a 2 1/4 petrol or diesel block, but watch out for the water jacket drain holes, use the head gasket to compare patterns and add the appropriate holes, can't remember which way the drilling is required, it was 20 years ago, the head will not fit with the later timing case cover, the thermostat housing is bigger on the early heads. It is possible to build the 2 litre crank, cam, head, pump, timing cover etc onto a 2 1/4 block, The timing cover of the later 2 litre diesels are sought after by the 2 1/4 racers because they were made from aluminium. The loose hot spot damage to the block is best repaired by changing the block. I have seen a weld repair and liner job done but it is more expensive than changing the block. The petrol and diesel engines use the same block. I have one in Cleveland UK that you can have free. The head can be salvaged by a competent machinist by boring the hole to a larger dia and fitting a sleeve to reduce the bore to take a new hot spot. I did over 50 k miles on an engine with such a repair before selling the vehicle. The Ser 2a and 2B 110 wheelbase forward controls of the sixties and early seventies, the ser 2a and 3 1 ton 109's and the current 130 models were/are fitted with a 7.00 wide wheel rim with the standard 5 stud fixing. The same rim as used on the 101 with a 6 stud nave plate ( i have seen plenty of 101 wheels in which the standard nave plate was fitted to enable the rim to be used on a standard vehicle in the days when 1010 rims were cheap and the FC rims were expensive.) the rims are designed for the 9.00 x 16 tyre but are fitted with a 7.50 x 16 tyre on the 130's In the UK the radial tubes are lighter than the bias tubes Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From Steve Firth Thu Feb 9 00:16:10 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 00:16:10 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Stealth Forces? Russell U Wilson wrote: >>So I'd say that they were going to do something somewhere that they were >>not supposed to be and needed a vehicle that would not scream HERE COMES >>THE AMERICANS..<< Yes,and I hear that the Rangers are tought to only give name rank and serial number in the event of capture, accompanied by the words "Ektually old chep, we are British" -- Steve Firth, '81 109" SIII Safari 2.25 petrol. From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Wed Feb 8 17:46:46 1995 Date: Wed, 8 Feb 95 17:46:46 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Problems with brake lights All, Hear is a real electric problem for you all lucas gurus. Just put a new battery in the SIII and started getting everything connected up. Almost everything works fine !!! except the following : When I hit the brake pedal, the front side lights and brake/side lights come on, when I put the side lights on, all the side lights come on as they should. However, the brake lights also come on ! I have replaced the brake switch and the same things happens. I have had the brake switch out of the housing and manually pressed it, same thing happens. When I connect up the brake switch with the ignition on, all the side lights come on. I have taken the connector off the fuse for the brake and checked the lights, the lights all work fine. I found the lead to the fuse for the brake, took that off and tried the lights. Lights work fine. I'm real puzzled by this. One other thing, the Land Rover is not running when I do all this. It seems as though the brake lights are wired into the lighting system somewhere, although I can't find it. Any ideas ?????? Is there a bullet connector somewhere where this could be connected by mistake ???? Also, does anyone know the colour of the wires to the reversing lights ? My Haynes manual does'nt show reversing lights, I think its Green, but EVERYTHING is @#$%*&^ GREEN !!! even the line to the brakes !!! Mark From Andrew Steele Wed Feb 08 22:29:34 1995 Date: Wed, 08 Feb 1995 22:29:34 -0500 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Re: Problems w/ brake lights Mark, The only advice I can offer is a comment, that come next Christmas, if you don't have the problem tracked down yet, that the inclusion of your Rover into the front yard Christmas display is sure to make it a winner in the neightborhood light decoration contest. Otherwise, (no Land Rover experience here) look for: 1) crudded up fuse box/connectors where several wires are grouped together. 2) look for any group of wires close to a heat source that could have melted them together. 3) If all else fails, it's never considered defeat to systematically replace problem wire runs (and grounds) with new colorcoded/labeled wire. (Jeeeze, typing without an editor is a real pain) Andrew Dayton, OH Hello, calling all diesels, would one of you like to come home to Ohio?) From bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Thu Feb 9 02:28:07 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 02:28:07 CST From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Subject: cont. For Sale Ben Freeman here again on my for sale ad sorry that I didn't put more info. It is as follows. asking price is $9,000.00 US$ but will neg. of course aslo includes my 109 box bed trailer. But will seperate at small deduction. My mailing address is: Benjamin Freeman, 13739-Linden Ave. N. #C-102, Seattle, WA 98133 I can also be reached at the previously mentioned phone # or by e-mail of course, but my e-mail box isn't very big and as such some mail isn't recieved some times. I'll also mention that I'm unemployed at this time, and getting merried in June, an what else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope and get my RHD 109 SIII before I get hitched an she get full control of my life not that she already doesn't for those of you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most helpfull. I'll answer any questions about my Landy with total honesty. So feel free to ask away..:) Good luck to you all as well..... Benjamin Freeman '73-SIII 88 "Joanna" From John Gardener Thu Feb 09 08:57:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 08:57:20 +0000 From: John Gardener Subject: Re: Problems with brake lights Check the earths on the tail lights. You get this sort of problem when ONE of them is lost. From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Thu Feb 09 11:36:59 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 11:36:59 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Mark's brake-lights and my braking system. Mark, >When I hit the brake pedal, the front side lights and brake/side lights come >on, when I put the side lights on, all the side lights come on as they should. >However, the brake lights also come on ! Looks like there is a common earth point for the all rear lamps which is loose/corroded. You're right now all the lights are in the same system. Good luck! Thanks Bill and nigel for the advice for the steering adjustment. I guess lengths don't say anything; just checked with the '60 "88 steering arm and its even longer, but the steering geometry of this car is perfect. I will be working on it this weekend, yes I do have new tie-rods, actually have a dozen or so. The previous owner was with the army and apparently, so he says..., he always got surplus parts. Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. Among the pile of stuf are a couple of master brake cylinders. Including servos. Some are complete with the mounting box and brake pedal They are presumably from a series III. At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? I'm not sure if I would like to go to servo assistance. (I don't fancy isolated toe-touch braking). The dual line master cylinders in the pile are al for servo assistance, could I try to fit one of those in-place of the single line versions, after relocating the bolt holes? Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? Probably this braking subject has been discussed to death, but if anyone has any suggestions/conclusions/ideas please mention them. Its a strange thing how tiny our Mini looks, even behind the 88" take care, Richard P. Kleihorst. From William Caloccia Thu Feb 09 05:50:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 05:50:20 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: 'modified' rovers... Well, in the finest tradition, check out the specs on this recently advertised trails motor (from the Feb. '95 "Bottom Box" newsletter of Pennine LRC): Series I bodied 88" coil sprung special fitted with Rover 2L 16v twin cam (rover 820) engine, 1-ton gearbox, white 8 spokes on trackers, power steering, full comp spec. with ARC log book, won NORC championship 3 times. Very, very competitive and reliable 2,500 GBP From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Feb 09 09:21:07 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 09:21:07 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Rich's brakes Rich asked: none Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. none That's the best place to tackle it. With the tie rod end in the vise, clean as much of the rust off the end as possible with a wire brush, then soak it in penetrating oil (WD-40 is ok, ATF doesn't evaporate as much. Let it sit overnight (guess you already have). Then, heat the end as much as possible (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating oil lying about). Using a pipe wrench an inch or so away from where you think the end of the threaded tie rod is, away from the tie rod, turn one way, then the other, back & forth. Keep an eye on the tube to make sure it doesn't twist or deform. This will put teethmarks in the tube, but I can't think of a kinder way to do it. I had one snap off in the tube once. I took it down to my machine shop and asked him to drill, tap it, and thread a bolt in (this was a left hand tie rod end). He heated the tube to a cherry red and used an impact wrench to turn the bolt in, which turned the tie rod out. I was one happy camper (didn't have to spend $70 for the tie rod or lay the Rover up for the weekend). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Yes. The early type is the same. (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating It's worked well for some, but not for others. If you have a IIA, you will have to cut away a portion of the wing to make the master cylinder fit (if your headlamps are in the radiator breakfast). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating No. You will need a junction block for a dual braking system. I have a single circuit servo system on my 109. It works pretty well. Not overly touchy. But I'd get some more advice before making the swap. I know what you mean about driving a 109 in heavy traffic. Really sucks. I try to avoid it. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:10 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:11 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:11 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Thu Feb 9 10:19:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 10:19:09 -0500 From: afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Subject: Hummers and More Ostentation Roverphiles, Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall that Lamborghini imported an exotic SUV some ten years ago. What were they called? How long were they imported? I witnessed a gaggle of them in a New Jersey warehouse (all window stickered with EPA gas mileage estimates beginning with decimal points) parked alongside even more Lambo Countachs. I believe they both used the same 12-cylinder engine, and I have a vague notion the SUV had six-wheels, but I may be wrong (I was at the time more awestruck by the sight of dozens of the low-flying winged Countachs). Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on shopping mall speed bumps. Snobbishly, --Paul, '61 S.II-A owner || Real ute owners know an excellent place || to host a habachi bar-be-que party is || around a Land Rover's bonnet From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 9 15:38:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:38:09 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Diesel woes!!! / The other weekend I was driving along, when all of a sudden there /was a load knock comming from the motor. So I got towed home, and pondered /the dint in the pocket that this knock was going to cause. Turns out /that the pin that stops the combustion chamber from spinning round had /planted it self on the top of no. 2 piston. But how can that happen I /hear you say, as the pin is held in by the head gasket and the block! Lucky. It is apparently common for the little indirect combustion chamber to fall into the piston on the 2.25s. This happened to a freind of mine and a coFrom mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Thu Feb 9 14:49:11 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 14:49:11 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: My Brake lights All, Another atempt to track down this lighting problem. I wired from the switch to the brake lamps directly, passing all exisiting wires, pressed the switch, all the side lamps came on. Ran a seperate lead from the switch to the lamps, and directly to the fuse, again all side lamps came on ????? I have basically removed all exisiting wiring and still the problem exisits, the only common wiring here is the RED side lamp wiring to all side lamps, that is dual to the brake lamps. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 09 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 09 Feb 95 18:18:21 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest 9th feb Kelly The stock Rover steel rims are NOT tubeless, when the rims were designed pre 1948 they did not have tubeless tyres. There is a risk of air loss round the rivets securing the rim to the nave plate and the rim design is not to the required standard. You have been lucky so far, long may you be so, be careful off road, particularly if you run the tyres at low pressure for traction. Re brake light problems; check the earth connections in the brake light circuit, if the connectionis bad the current will flow down the path of least resistance which will then be the normal light circuit. Check al the wiring connections at the rear of the UK drivers side chassis, they get sprayed with all the road dirt from the rear wheels. A good tip is to extend all the connections up into the body inside the rear corner cap that covers the inside of the rear lights. Jason -- re your speedo request,refer to the digest of 1/5/95 in which I gave some info on this topic. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Mike Fredette Thu Feb 09 15:23:39 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 15:23:39 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: My Brake lights Mark, You have a ground problem, or a lack of a good ground I should say. The same type of problem happened to me on my Series lll and this was the solution. Go through with a small stainless steel toothbrush (any hardware store) and remove all the corrosion from the ground connections. Remember that the boys at Lucas brought ground to each light individually and so if on get screwed up, it seeks to ground itself through another source. In your case, the marker lamp circuit. I swear that if you clean up all the ground connections, and verify that they are all secure to the chassis, you're problem WILL go away. Don't give up yet! Or just go buy a D90 and the problem will also go away. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Oregon D90 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:45 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:45 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: From the book of Generator And Lucas said, "Let there be light!" And there was, occassionally, light. And Lucas said, "Let there be spark!" And there was, occassionally, spark. And Lucas said, "Let there be ground!" And there was, all too often, ground. And in His wisdom, Lucas gave the Land Rover the power of Fire, and though his reasoning may not be clear, we praise Him for it, and call His name, often. For truly it is written that Lucas moves in strange and mysterious ways. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:53 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:53 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Matchbox Land Rover Fire Engine > The ad makes no mention of these being available singly. Roger, where > did you hear about it? I heard about it in the Collectibles forum on Compuserve. There is a Diecast and Toys section where I am known as one of the Land Rover nuts. Anyway, there are some serious diecast collectors there and one of them (the section leader, actually) alerted me to it. I had no idea there was a subscription sort of thing. I just called up and asked for it. I will also ask about the Matchbox Collectibles outlets on the east coast. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:40:29 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:40:29 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: us rangers 110's There has been alot of chat about hummers vs 110's. Lets get a few things straight here. there are horses for courses and there is the right tool for the job. The Rangers are an air mobile unit and any such unit has WEIGHT and SIZE as a big consideration. For those of you who care to listen the US Forces have been using Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Shorland SB401's, Defender 130's in various parts of the world for various reasons. In the UK they were at pains to belnd and subsequently drove vehciles with British Forces licence plates and markings. In Turkey the US has used Land Rover products for a number of years now. The Rangers were looking for a vehicle that would stow into their current airlift inventory and future aircraft in years to come. The 110 offered a proven light weight airportable compact vehicle. In the SOV role that the rangers use them for they can get at least 7 persons in a fully tooled up 110. It is equiped with a weapons ring that can take just about any weapon you consider to name. Using devices such as on the 110 Hi Cap patrol vehciles weapons platforms the suspension is locked out for really big calibre weapons. The 110 sov was intended for quick in and out operations over realitively short distances but need the kind of mobility that the smaller 110 offers while being able to be underslung to a number of aircraft or inside others. The Hummer is a designed vehcile in a different class to the 110. It is very heavy and not as manouerverable as the 110 and not take to kind of fit that the sov does, they just dont compare for the role, and that is the long and the short of it. Every vehilce that I know of can get stuck, even 110's. Alot has to do with the pink computer behind the wheel if the truth be known. I have pictures of 110's bogged in the Gulf, so what! See my point. As one who has driven a Hummer off road I take my hat off to the designers, it does a job, NOT ALL JOBS. Every vehcile has its limitations and this is why the Rangers bought the lighter 110's. Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:57:48 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:57:48 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover parts policies I have been doing some work on the availability or non in some cases of parts. I have been trying to order the land Rover Experience, which was advertised in LRO and has a genuine part number to it. My local, and I beleive in supporting local bussiness, dealer parts man put the number through the computer and it did not register. I brought the advert in and he went to town trying to get it for me. Without naming names he got the true apathetic answers to his enquiries throught the parts chain. This was the laxadazical attitude that has long tarnished the LR name. Fed up I called Land Rover Parts in the UK direct myself and spoke to the head honcho on parts and got the full scoop. When LR was planning its come back into the NA market they readilly recognised the series owners as a market for parts, but they did not want to have their new vehcile dealers having to look after all of this market. They instead decided to establish approved dealers such as Rovers North in Vermont to deal with this market, because these types of dealers would offer the series owner the full orig spec parts and the aftermarket stuff and that was going to service the markket best. The premise that you can walk into ANY Land Rover dealer ANYWHERE in the world and order a genuine Land Rover part holds true today. The problem that you will encounter is that the dealer may not recognise the part number on his system. There are microfiches available to all dealers that give all the parts numbers that exist. In these you will find a plethora of parts that are not listed in the computer. That is the case here in NA for example. IF the dummies who run the system above the dealer level dont put the effort into traking it down then your dealer will never be able to supply what you want, that is what happened to me. So once again, ANY GENUINE LR PART IS AVAILABLE ANYWHERE, you just might not like the price. Sure the likes of Craddock in the UK might be able to get you a better price, I'm not disputing that. Some people for instance were asking recently about hood mounts for their spare tyres on 90's. When the Defender 90 was approved in the US the mount was put on the rear and that is how it is legally sold, same with the roll cage. What you do afterwards is your bussiness. There is no kit as such for the hood mount but all the parts are available individually through your local dealer 'cos guess what THEY ARE GENUINE LR PARTS. I have invested in the fiches for North American stock and non NAS type 90's and 110's which are available for about 10 bucks a pop up here, when I get a viewer I'll let you have the parts numbers. To sum up, push your dealer to get LRNA or LRC to do their job if you want the part. Have we put that one to bed now? Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 22:15:24 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 22:15:24 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: ex military trailers For any one who has bought the Ex Canadian forces M100 series trailers I have parts manulas for them that give cross references for the various part numbers with varous civvy manufactuFrom bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Thu Feb 9 02:28:07 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 02:28:07 CST From: bfreeman@heartland.bradley.edu (Benjamin Freeman) Subject: cont. For Sale Ben Freeman here again on my for sale ad sorry that I didn't put more info. It is as follows. asking price is $9,000.00 US$ but will neg. of course aslo includes my 109 box bed trailer. But will seperate at small deduction. My mailing address is: Benjamin Freeman, 13739-Linden Ave. N. #C-102, Seattle, WA 98133 I can also be reached at the previously mentioned phone # or by e-mail of course, but my e-mail box isn't very big and as such some mail isn't recieved some times. I'll also mention that I'm unemployed at this time, and getting merried in June, an what else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope and get my RHD 109 SIII before I get hitched an she get full control of my life not that she already doesn't for those of you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most helpfull. I'll answer any questions about my Landy with total honesty. So feel free to ask away..:) Good luck to you all as well..... Benjamin Freeman '73-SIII 88 "Joanna" From John Gardener Thu Feb 09 08:57:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 08:57:20 +0000 From: John Gardener Subject: Re: Problems with brake lights Check the earths on the tail lights. You get this sort of problem when ONE of them is lost. From kleihors@prl.philips.nl Thu Feb 09 11:36:59 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 11:36:59 MET From: kleihors@prl.philips.nl Subject: Mark's brake-lights and my braking system. Mark, >When I hit the brake pedal, the front side lights and brake/side lights come >on, when I put the side lights on, all the side lights come on as they should. >However, the brake lights also come on ! Looks like there is a common earth point for the all rear lamps which is loose/corroded. You're right now all the lights are in the same system. Good luck! Thanks Bill and nigel for the advice for the steering adjustment. I guess lengths don't say anything; just checked with the '60 "88 steering arm and its even longer, but the steering geometry of this car is perfect. I will be working on it this weekend, yes I do have new tie-rods, actually have a dozen or so. The previous owner was with the army and apparently, so he says..., he always got surplus parts. Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. Among the pile of stuf are a couple of master brake cylinders. Including servos. Some are complete with the mounting box and brake pedal They are presumably from a series III. At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? I'm not sure if I would like to go to servo assistance. (I don't fancy isolated toe-touch braking). The dual line master cylinders in the pile are al for servo assistance, could I try to fit one of those in-place of the single line versions, after relocating the bolt holes? Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? Probably this braking subject has been discussed to death, but if anyone has any suggestions/conclusions/ideas please mention them. Its a strange thing how tiny our Mini looks, even behind the 88" take care, Richard P. Kleihorst. From William Caloccia Thu Feb 09 05:50:20 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 05:50:20 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: 'modified' rovers... Well, in the finest tradition, check out the specs on this recently advertised trails motor (from the Feb. '95 "Bottom Box" newsletter of Pennine LRC): Series I bodied 88" coil sprung special fitted with Rover 2L 16v twin cam (rover 820) engine, 1-ton gearbox, white 8 spokes on trackers, power steering, full comp spec. with ARC log book, won NORC championship 3 times. Very, very competitive and reliable 2,500 GBP From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Feb 09 09:21:07 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 09:21:07 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Rich's brakes Rich asked: none Right now I'm fighting (WD40) to remove the worn tierods from the steering shaft. Its in the benchvise, but those buggers are seized. none That's the best place to tackle it. With the tie rod end in the vise, clean as much of the rust off the end as possible with a wire brush, then soak it in penetrating oil (WD-40 is ok, ATF doesn't evaporate as much. Let it sit overnight (guess you already have). Then, heat the end as much as possible (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating oil lying about). Using a pipe wrench an inch or so away from where you think the end of the threaded tie rod is, away from the tie rod, turn one way, then the other, back & forth. Keep an eye on the tube to make sure it doesn't twist or deform. This will put teethmarks in the tube, but I can't think of a kinder way to do it. I had one snap off in the tube once. I took it down to my machine shop and asked him to drill, tap it, and thread a bolt in (this was a left hand tie rod end). He heated the tube to a cherry red and used an impact wrench to turn the bolt in, which turned the tie rod out. I was one happy camper (didn't have to spend $70 for the tie rod or lay the Rover up for the weekend). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating At this moment, the LWB has a single braking system with the "Girling CV" type of master (isn't this exactly the same as the clutch's?). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Yes. The early type is the same. (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating I'm feeling a littlebit scary with this heavy vehicle in the busy traffic, so I'm contemplating switching to dual lines. Is this a regular swap? Will one of those dual line systems (complete with pedal) bolt in, or will I have to chop up the wing, bonnet and bulkhead? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating It's worked well for some, but not for others. If you have a IIA, you will have to cut away a portion of the wing to make the master cylinder fit (if your headlamps are in the radiator breakfast). (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating Do I need one of those brake-line differential units or are the front/rear brakes on the 109" well ratioed? (taking care not to set your workbench on fire if there's still penetrating No. You will need a junction block for a dual braking system. I have a single circuit servo system on my 109. It works pretty well. Not overly touchy. But I'd get some more advice before making the swap. I know what you mean about driving a 109 in heavy traffic. Really sucks. I try to avoid it. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:10 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Feb 09 08:06:11 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 08:06:11 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Why a D90. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Why a D90. George, I don't have a D90, but I do own a Discovery, which is the same running gear, engine, trans (if a 5-speed) except I have an automatic. I don't know exactly what it is, but the LR performs FAR SUPERIOR to a stock trooper, and I'd even go as far as saying ANY other stock vehicle. I've been out with a friend and his Trooper, and needed to pull him out WHEN he got stuck (not "if") and when he'd go up a loose rocky steep incline with lots of ruts, he'd get stuck, and I had to wait at the bottom of the hill for several minutes while he reversed, turned, spun the tires, sprayed rocks, etc... Then, I'd just "walk right up" with absolutely NO problem. One time, I even stopped dead in the same place he had trouble, then started up again with no problems. It's a combination of the wheel articulation, tires, (admittedly, his were a little worn, but not that bad.) and the locking "differential" transfer case. (This, when locked, divides power equally between front and rear.) I've owned "Jeeps" and Scouts in the past, but never again! (Unless it's "dirt cheap" and I want something to trash.) #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Thu Feb 9 10:19:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 10:19:09 -0500 From: afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Subject: Hummers and More Ostentation Roverphiles, Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall that Lamborghini imported an exotic SUV some ten years ago. What were they called? How long were they imported? I witnessed a gaggle of them in a New Jersey warehouse (all window stickered with EPA gas mileage estimates beginning with decimal points) parked alongside even more Lambo Countachs. I believe they both used the same 12-cylinder engine, and I have a vague notion the SUV had six-wheels, but I may be wrong (I was at the time more awestruck by the sight of dozens of the low-flying winged Countachs). Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on shopping mall speed bumps. Snobbishly, --Paul, '61 S.II-A owner || Real ute owners know an excellent place || to host a habachi bar-be-que party is || around a Land Rover's bonnet From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 9 15:38:09 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:38:09 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Diesel woes!!! / The other weekend I was driving along, when all of a sudden there /was a load knock comming from the motor. So I got towed home, and pondered /the dint in the pocket that this knock was going to cause. Turns out /that the pin that stops the combustion chamber from spinning round had /planted it self on the top of no. 2 piston. But how can that happen I /hear you say, as the pin is held in by the head gasket and the block! Lucky. It is apparently common for the little indirect combustion chamber to fall into the piston on the 2.25s. This happened to a freind of mine and a conrod came thru the block. New engine time :( I am told the 2.5NAs in the 90 have had this fixed by a liillte lip round the top of the barrel? Got my fingers crossed. Whatever. Apparently if you hear a little bell in the engine (Like light pinking) STOP NOW. Its trying to warn you...... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Feb 9 15:42:08 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:42:08 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Hummers(Hummve) (+) /To add to this growing bit of trivia, there was an AP (I think) photo in /the local rag last week showing a long column of Jordanian Army Humvees /doing their thing in the desert. The best and most interesting part was /the Land Rover 90 leading the whole thing. No fool, that commanding /officer. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (sorry) As I understand it, the hummers are excellent except for two things. The monster weight makes em sink in tarmac, adn the monster width makes em get stuck between continental plates. Much like the Series one is a better offroad trialer than the 90............. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From Richard Jones Thu Feb 9 15:50:24 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:50:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Hummers and More Ostentation Paul V. Gregory writes: > Roverphiles, > Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall > that Lamborghini imported an exotic SUV some ten years ago. What were they > called? How long were they imported? none Wasn't it something like LM02 or am I getting confused > I witnessed a gaggle of them in a New Jersey warehouse (all window > stickered with EPA gas mileage estimates beginning with decimal points) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > but I may be wrong (I was at the time more awestruck by the sight of dozens > of the low-flying winged Countachs). V12 yes, 4 wheels > Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of > well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that > revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on > shopping mall speed bumps. -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From C Taylor Sutherland III Thu Feb 9 12:07:44 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 12:07:44 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: 88" Series III Thanks for the faq that I got mailed to me. There's just a couple more questions I have: From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Thu Feb 9 14:49:11 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 14:49:11 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: My Brake lights All, Another atempt to track down this lighting problem. I wired from the switch to the brake lamps directly, passing all exisiting wires, pressed the switch, all the side lamps came on. Ran a seperate lead from the switch to the lamps, and directly to the fuse, again all side lamps came on ????? I have basically removed all exisiting wiring and still the problem exisits, the only common wiring here is the RED side lamp wiring to all side lamps, that is dual to the brake lamps. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 09 95 Feb EST 1918 Date: 09 Feb 95 18:18:21 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest 9th feb Kelly The stock Rover steel rims are NOT tubeless, when the rims were designed pre 1948 they did not have tubeless tyres. There is a risk of air loss round the rivets securing the rim to the nave plate and the rim design is not to the required standard. You have been lucky so far, long may you be so, be careful off road, particularly if you run the tyres at low pressure for traction. Re brake light problems; check the earth connections in the brake light circuit, if the connectionis bad the current will flow down the path of least resistance which will then be the normal light circuit. Check al the wiring connections at the rear of the UK drivers side chassis, they get sprayed with all the road dirt from the rear wheels. A good tip is to extend all the connections up into the body inside the rear corner cap that covers the inside of the rear lights. Jason -- re your speedo request,refer to the digest of 1/5/95 in which I gave some info on this topic. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Mike Fredette Thu Feb 09 15:23:39 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 1995 15:23:39 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: My Brake lights Mark, You have a ground problem, or a lack of a good ground I should say. The same type of problem happened to me on my Series lll and this was the solution. Go through with a small stainless steel toothbrush (any hardware store) and remove all the corrosion from the ground connections. Remember that the boys at Lucas brought ground to each light individually and so if on get screwed up, it seeks to ground itself through another source. In your case, the marker lamp circuit. I swear that if you clean up all the ground connections, and verify that they are all secure to the chassis, you're problem WILL go away. Don't give up yet! Or just go buy a D90 and the problem will also go away. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Oregon D90 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:45 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:45 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: From the book of Generator And Lucas said, "Let there be light!" And there was, occassionally, light. And Lucas said, "Let there be spark!" And there was, occassionally, spark. And Lucas said, "Let there be ground!" And there was, all too often, ground. And in His wisdom, Lucas gave the Land Rover the power of Fire, and though his reasoning may not be clear, we praise Him for it, and call His name, often. For truly it is written that Lucas moves in strange and mysterious ways. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Feb 9 19:07:53 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 19:07:53 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Matchbox Land Rover Fire Engine > The ad makes no mention of these being available singly. Roger, where > did you hear about it? I heard about it in the Collectibles forum on Compuserve. There is a Diecast and Toys section where I am known as one of the Land Rover nuts. Anyway, there are some serious diecast collectors there and one of them (the section leader, actually) alerted me to it. I had no idea there was a subscription sort of thing. I just called up and asked for it. I will also ask about the Matchbox Collectibles outlets on the east coast. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:40:29 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:40:29 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: us rangers 110's There has been alot of chat about hummers vs 110's. Lets get a few things straight here. there are horses for courses and there is the right tool for the job. The Rangers are an air mobile unit and any such unit has WEIGHT and SIZE as a big consideration. For those of you who care to listen the US Forces have been using Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Shorland SB401's, Defender 130's in various parts of the world for various reasons. In the UK they were at pains to belnd and subsequently drove vehciles with British Forces licence plates and markings. In Turkey the US has used Land Rover products for a number of years now. The Rangers were looking for a vehicle that would stow into their current airlift inventory and future aircraft in years to come. The 110 offered a proven light weight airportable compact vehicle. In the SOV role that the rangers use them for they can get at least 7 persons in a fully tooled up 110. It is equiped with a weapons ring that can take just about any weapon you consider to name. Using devices such as on the 110 Hi Cap patrol vehciles weapons platforms the suspension is locked out for really big calibre weapons. The 110 sov was intended for quick in and out operations over realitively short distances but need the kind of mobility that the smaller 110 offers while being able to be underslung to a number of aircraft or inside others. The Hummer is a designed vehcile in a different class to the 110. It is very heavy and not as manouerverable as the 110 and not take to kind of fit that the sov does, they just dont compare for the role, and that is the long and the short of it. Every vehilce that I know of can get stuck, even 110's. Alot has to do with the pink computer behind the wheel if the truth be known. I have pictures of 110's bogged in the Gulf, so what! See my point. As one who has driven a Hummer off road I take my hat off to the designers, it does a job, NOT ALL JOBS. Every vehcile has its limitations and this is why the Rangers bought the lighter 110's. Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 21:57:48 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 21:57:48 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover parts policies I have been doing some work on the availability or non in some cases of parts. I have been trying to order the land Rover Experience, which was advertised in LRO and has a genuine part number to it. My local, and I beleive in supporting local bussiness, dealer parts man put the number through the computer and it did not register. I brought the advert in and he went to town trying to get it for me. Without naming names he got the true apathetic answers to his enquiries throught the parts chain. This was the laxadazical attitude that has long tarnished the LR name. Fed up I called Land Rover Parts in the UK direct myself and spoke to the head honcho on parts and got the full scoop. When LR was planning its come back into the NA market they readilly recognised the series owners as a market for parts, but they did not want to have their new vehcile dealers having to look after all of this market. They instead decided to establish approved dealers such as Rovers North in Vermont to deal with this market, because these types of dealers would offer the series owner the full orig spec parts and the aftermarket stuff and that was going to service the markket best. The premise that you can walk into ANY Land Rover dealer ANYWHERE in the world and order a genuine Land Rover part holds true today. The problem that you will encounter is that the dealer may not recognise the part number on his system. There are microfiches available to all dealers that give all the parts numbers that exist. In these you will find a plethora of parts that are not listed in the computer. That is the case here in NA for example. IF the dummies who run the system above the dealer level dont put the effort into traking it down then your dealer will never be able to supply what you want, that is what happened to me. So once again, ANY GENUINE LR PART IS AVAILABLE ANYWHERE, you just might not like the price. Sure the likes of Craddock in the UK might be able to get you a better price, I'm not disputing that. Some people for instance were asking recently about hood mounts for their spare tyres on 90's. When the Defender 90 was approved in the US the mount was put on the rear and that is how it is legally sold, same with the roll cage. What you do afterwards is your bussiness. There is no kit as such for the hood mount but all the parts are available individually through your local dealer 'cos guess what THEY ARE GENUINE LR PARTS. I have invested in the fiches for North American stock and non NAS type 90's and 110's which are available for about 10 bucks a pop up here, when I get a viewer I'll let you have the parts numbers. To sum up, push your dealer to get LRNA or LRC to do their job if you want the part. Have we put that one to bed now? Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Feb 09 22:15:24 1995 Date: Thu, 09 Feb 95 22:15:24 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: ex military trailers For any one who has bought the Ex Canadian forces M100 series trailers I have parts manulas for them that give cross references for the various part numbers with varous civvy manufactures such as Chrysler etc email for more info Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Keerock2@aol.com Thu Feb 9 22:47:19 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 22:47:19 -0500 From: Keerock2@aol.com Subject: D90 Advert Hi all, In the ongoing collection of LR media, a week or so ago someone mentioned an ad (cited as source unknown) featuring a D90 in the jungle with the subtitle "What to drive in places where you're the food .... While it's not exactly the least expensive 4x4, the Defender offers you that invaluable old English option. To be or not to be." I came across that ad quite by accident yesterday in the inside back cover of this month's (February) Esquire Magazine. A very sharp ad, really, featuring a fully-loaded yellow hardtop, slightly muddied for effect. First, though, you'll have to skip through the huge, glossy, overly-slick eight page Jeep centerfold advertising packet in the middle of the magazine (yuk). Shouldn't be a problem. And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? My Orvis fly fishing gear has the same thing. -Dean Silliman -Lake Arrowhead, CA, USA From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Thu Feb 9 20:14:58 1995 Date: Thu, 9 Feb 95 20:14:58 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: *Bah, Humvee!* You know how all of the tall tales begin, right? *This is no bullsh*t*. But, this really is no bullsh*t. There lives a desert tan truck cab civilian humvee in my quaint little town of Scituate, Mass. It lives in a circular driveway in front of a house with a garage bigger than my house. I drive by it regularly in my 110 or the dealer 90. The other day, the humvee was parked tail towards the road. What do you suppose was stencilled and painted in black lettering on the tailgate? *IT'S A LEMON!* Yes, `tis true. I must get a photograph of this for the Rover Reference. But I'd better drive up to the house in my wife's Dodge. It wouldn't be sporting of me to do it in the Rover, no? I talked with another owner in my town (there are, gasp, about four of them in Scituate) and he spun an almost unbelievable story of woe concerning service problems with the vehicle and a quality control horror story that would make the worst Lucas stories pale into insignificance! Now, this is no bullshit... Cheerz Jim Roverheadus bahumveeum peesojunkoid -------- From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 10 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 10 Feb 95 08:25:34 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Lamborghini LM002 I never knew much about the Lamborghini LM002, but that was the name. They were about $125K, had a 12 Cylinder and very large, military-like Balloon tires. Only 4 wheels, though, not 6. Not many were imported. I have never actually seen one outside the ads in the back of the Robb Report. Demographics were probably people who had never heard of Land Rovers.... Cheers, R. P. Reid From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 10 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 10 Feb 95 08:35:20 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: braking system > (...snip ...snip...) The dual line master cylinders in the pile are > al for servo assistance, could I try to fit one of those in-place of the > single line versions, after relocating the bolt holes? Do I need ... Oh no, you can't do that... don't even think of it. They have totally different specs. If you use them, you must go all the way and fit the vacuum pot, not forgetting to connect the vacuum hose to the carb or intake manifold. From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 10 09:44:42 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:44:42 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Where's LRO? Where is this months's LRO magazine? Has anyone on this side of the pond received it yet? One chap with offices in the both the UK and Atlanta (and an overnight courier pouch between them) sent me a FAX of Jim Allen's article on the Mid-Atlantic Rally, but the transmission ended up looking like Sumerian clay tablet writing - elongated, illegible text with barely discernable photos: just enough to really pique my interest...not enough to read. There for a while, when the threat of competition from LRW seemed imminent, LRO was doing okay...but now they seem to be lapsing back into their old selves. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From AshtonLand@aol.com (by way of hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)) Fri Feb 10 09:05:11 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:05:11 -0600 From: AshtonLand@aol.com (by way of hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner)) Subject: Land Rover Defender 110's, etc. I saw this on the LRO list - Greg I'm wondering if anybody has any knowledge on obtaining Land Rover Defender 110's, 130's or High Capacity Pick-ups and importing them to the United States for personal use. I have contacted Land Rover North America and get the pat answer "We don't import those models and have no plans to do so." However, their director of marketing for the Western U.S. tells me that Swiss specified Land Rovers meet or exceed U.S. requirements. When I contacted the Land Rover representative in Switzerland, I was referred to Land Rover North America. What a surprise. I have also talked with the product manager for Defenders at Land Rover in Solihull. He informed me that, for liability reasons, he could offer no assistance. I don't think it can be this difficult to do - after all, the original Land Rovers brought to the U.S. this last time around for DOT tests, etc., were Swiss spec'd. I'd appreciate any help that can be offered. Sincerely, Stephen Loosli AshtonLand@aol.com From "Mugele, Gerry" Fri Feb 10 09:06:00 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 09:06:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Why a L-R? "George S. Reiswig" asks for advice: >>So, all you D90 owners...why should I plop down such an >>exhorbitant amount of money for the D90? [none] Thanks again in advance. Sorry George...but L-Rs are more of an affliction than a rational choice. You lay out the money cause you find you just can't live without one. It happened to me >25 years ago and clearly this debilitation has effected my economic status and personal sense of well-being. Over the years I've dumped alot(!) of $ into the various beasts I've owned, keeping them well. And I've never felt as secure in the middle of nowhere as I do in my 88". As Dick O'Kane, a writer, said a few decades ago: "When you're in a Land Rover you sort of get the feeling that if they dropped the big one; it would only blister the paint a little." So I guess I'm saying...if you need a logical justification to get one, then you just don't want one enough. I too have had a relationship with an Isuzu, it was an '86 Trooper. Fine vehicle, reliable, quiet, fairly tough, practical, clean lines, comfortable. And it would go 95% of the places I might go (off-road) in the Land Rover...but NO charisma, charm or personality. And when it went away it was not a loss. Similarly, wife has a 92 Mitsubishi Montero...leather seats, V6, ABS, sunroof, air-locking rear diff, traction control, etc. and it's a really nice car to drive the 1K miles to Moab....but once I'm there I want my L-R. All my L-Rs have been totally stock (this is not a slam to any conversions here) cause I never found a need to change anything. And, here's the big one for me: in about a half million miles of LandRoving (in Iceland, Moab, Canada and just about everywhere else west of the Rockies)....I've NEVER had to walk home! Good luck with your choice. Gerry 72 88 From Spenny@aol.com Fri Feb 10 12:19:44 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 12:19:44 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: electrical woes Mike writes- snip they are all secure to the chassis, your problem WILL go away. Don't give up yet! Or just go buy a D90 and the problem will also go away. snip the problem won't go away with a D90, you are just putting it off for about 20 years ;-) Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Feb 10 09:46:19 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:46:19 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land Rover Defender 110's, etc. Stephen, I found your posting on the British Cars list. As a future reference, I'd suggest that Land-Rover questions my be more productively asked of the LRO (Land-Rover-Owner) list (lro@team.net). If you are interested in joining the list, I'll send you info on how to do so. Regarding importing a Defender 110 or 130: If, as you are informed, the Swiss-spec vehicles are really comparable to U.S.-spec, then it might not be too bad but that's relative. A friend of mine imported a 1990 Turbodiesel 110 which was full Camel Trophy spec. And he had a lot of grief and expense to do so. It can be done but can cost maybe $5,000 on top of the purchase price, shipping, and duty. And take maybe two or three years to put it all together. The only way I know of to pull it off is to work with a specialist firm which handles this sort of transaction. When the vehicle comes to the U.S. port, it will be placed in impound, then can be gotten out by the specialist in U.S. certification. He takes it to his shop and does whatever he does, including dealing with the various federal and state authorities. My friend (Domingos Dias by name) lives in California and of course that is a worst-case scenario. Some states are much easier. But you still gotta satisfy the feds. It seems that the slightest deviation from U.S. specs (in the case of a Defender 110, from the specs of the actual model imported to the U.S.) can cause major hassles. When I last spoke to Domingos (last July) he had had the 110 in his possession awhile but was still not "out of the woods" with the feds. If you wish to talk with Domingos, I will give you his phone number. This is about the sum total of what I know on the subject. I would be very interested to be kept abreast of what you learn, as you go along. If you really do go through with this process, it would be of considerable interest for you to post messages regularly on the LRO list. Any number of folks on the list want to know all there is to know about this. >I'm wondering if anybody has any knowledge on obtaining Land Rover Defender >110's, 130's or High Capacity Pick-ups and importing them to the United [ truncated by lro-digester (was 17 lines)] >Stephen Loosli >AshtonLand@aol.com Hope this helps! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Feb 10 09:47:24 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 09:47:24 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Rambo Lambo Paul, The Lamborgini you describe is much akin to the Hummer and was originally built to the U.S. spec, in cooperation with (I think) Curtis-Wright, to compete for the contract that eventually went to AM General. As such, it was originally called the Cheetah (I even have a Tomy diecast model of a Lamborgini Cheetah, in Zebra-stripe dress). The "production" version, as sold in the U.S., was known as LM002, commonly pronounced "le moo two." It is also known as the "Rambo Lambo" and does indeed have the Lamborgini V-12 engine. As spec'd for the military trials, thought, as I recall, it was equipped with a Chrysler V-8 (been a long time, so I don't remember for sure). The LM002 weighs a good 6,000 and change, similar to the Hummer. I doubt that its suspension is up to the Hummer's standards (Hummers have portal axles--the only ones I know of on a fully articulated, a-arm-type, independent suspension). I don't thinks very many LM002s were sold in the U.S. because it was a bit of a beast in comparison with the Range Rover and cost more than twice as much. > Roverphiles, > Some recent chat on this newsgroup about Hummers led me to recall [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > || to host a habachi bar-be-que party is > || around a Land Rover's bonnet ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From William Dan Terry Fri Feb 10 14:13:03 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 14:13:03 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: carb probs? I recently got my first LR, a '65 IIA 109SW with a camper top. Unfortunately, it was not represented well by the seller, who was really into LR (had 3 there and regularly brings them into the States). Half the things which were in "fine" shape had to be replaced. Desperate for one and not knowing enough made me a sucker buyer. I've spent almost again what I paid for it just getting it up for inspection; new everything brakes, new seals on all axels, new front ball axel-steering joints (whatever they're called), cracked head after a month of very little driving. This was meant to be my daily driver, which the seller well knew. No calls returned even on the first message asking what weight oil it takes since it was low. I'm planning on living with it for now, and maybe some attention, although without sinking much money into it, might work it out. I am having a strange problem since I got it back after the head job. The engine in normal use balks as if it has water in the fuel or such, but when I pull the choke out halfway it works fine. Does anyone have any sage advice, or even educated guess, which I may be able to try to fix it? I've never spent much time with carbs, and besides theory, don't really know the specific details of their workings. I do have the Hanes book. TIA Peace, Bill '65 IIA 109SW "Antichrist" after "The Gods Must Be Crazy" and all the trouble we've had. _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From William Dan Terry Fri Feb 10 13:58:25 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 13:58:25 EST From: William Dan Terry Subject: lambo I don't remember specifics, but there were a couple of versions of Lambo four-wheelers. The first was the Cheetah. Very "exotic" in that it had a mid-engined configuration. It had one small problem that the designers overlooked. It had problems with front tire grip going up serious hills, even threatening to roll over backwards. It never hurts to determine the real requirements before designing something. The LMA was the next invocation. Some 7-liter V12, 500+bhp, 125mph top, 60+mph over rough terrain, special tires with treads that went halfway up the sides for sand and such. Sales in the Mid-East. I don't particularly like Lambos, much preferring Lotuses for sports-cars (my favorite by far) and LR for off-road (again my favorite by far), but I did like the looks of this thing. It looked like it was meant to go. Supposedly pretty decent, though reviews I read were in MotorTrend and such, not off-road zines. The last version I recall was, as mentioned earlier, the LM02. To import this, it had a Chrysler engine (Lambo was owned by Chrysler at the time). Seen a couple a while ago, but not for a long time. Peace, Bill _____W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______ How do we acquire wisdom wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com along with all these MINERVA Development Team shiney things? (David Brin) Booz, Allen & Hamilton _____ __ __ __ __ __ __ _____ __ __ _____ __ __ __ __ ______ W i l l i a m D a n T e r r y From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Feb 10 14:54:17 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:54:17 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Rambo-Lambo WRT the thread on the Lambourghinis...it was the LM002, aka the "Rambo Lambo". These things came equipped with 20" tires which cost something like $600 a pop, but then if you can afford $100K+ for a vehicle, $600 for a flat is chump change. Drove next to one in my Rover one time...the folks inside, instead of acting snobby and such, actually seemed to appreciate the look of the Rover...though they didn't go so far as to wave. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From C Taylor Sutherland III Fri Feb 10 15:28:54 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 15:28:54 -0500 (EST) From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: Lambo SUV I saw that thing on something like beyond 2000 or some such. It looked like a cross between a Hummer, a Nissan Pathfinder, a De'Lorien and my butt. Had the raised differential like the Hummer, the shape of the Pathfinder, and the brushed aluminum finish of the D'Lorien. Pretty wild looking...and pretty wild price. From Kumaravel Natarajan Fri Feb 10 14:36:37 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 14:36:37 -0600 (CST) From: Kumaravel Natarajan Subject: Re: Hummers and More Ostentation >Subject: Re: Hummers and More Ostentation >Date: Thu, 9 Feb 1995 15:50:24 +0000 (GMT) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >none >Wasn't it something like LM02 or am I getting confused You are almost correct. It had one more "0". It was the LM002. >V12 yes, 4 wheels And a governor limited top-speed of 120 MPH for getting across those sand dunes a little faster than your neighbor's camel. >> Anyways, I assumed Lambo's SUV was destined for a market of >> well-heeled suburbane guerrillas in need of an all-terrain vehicle that >> revvs to 8,000 rpm....real necessary for those white-knucked assaults on >> shopping mall speed bumps. The first one I saw in the skin was when I was in college, in (you guessed it) a shopping mall in a suburb of Cleveland, OH. The next time I saw one was in a Lamborghini dealership in a rather well-to-do suburb nearby (Barrington, IL). But the dealership either went out of business, or got smart and changed their product, because now it has been replaced by a LAND ROVER dealership. From sohearn@InterServ.Com Fri Feb 10 13:41:36 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 13:41:36 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: *Bah, Humvee!* Jim writes about Hummer woes. I've heard that the transmissions are the weak link but this was second-hand. I'd be interested in the problems mentioned by those Hummer owners as a guy at work is intent on buying one. I can definitely understand service being a problem: no trained mechanics and an 800 number is no substitute. Might be a good business opportunity for some former U.S. Army mechanics. - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Fri Feb 10 16:29:19 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 95 16:29:19 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Starter switch (solenoid) All, I think I have a problem with my starter switch. Here's why. I have attached alternator and battery lead to battery input side of the switch. Attached output to starter. Connected ignition switch. Turn it and nothing. I have power to the input. I can place a screwdriver over the terminals and the starter fires !!! Any agree that the solenoid is broken ???? Or is it more dreaded LUCAS problems again ???? Or have I wired this sucker up wrong !!!!!! By the way, I'm still searching for my bad earth in my lights. Now as soon as I turn on the ignition, all the lights come on ! I'll get there in the end. Mark From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 10 95 Feb EST 1920 Date: 10 Feb 95 20:18:56 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: digest friday Richard When trying to free up your track rod ends, DO NOT HEAT the tube. lack of care in this operation can result in a change in the metals structure and subsequent failure. Slide the clamp clip well away from the end of the tube, place the tube end flat on a solid surface so that the rod overhangs the end, then align the slots in the tube with the horizontal centre line and using a bras or copper mallet strike the tube end, this will have the effect of moving the thread faces slightly, turn the tube and bash it all the way round, this shock treatment will loosen up the threads, the tube must be laid flat on something solid, i.e the vice extension if it is on a good bench, a blacksmiths anvil is perfect. I have a 12" piece of girder that I keep for such things. A modification of this shock technique also works in removing the rod end from the steering arm, if you take two similar size hammers and simultaneously strike both sides of the steering arm end where the rod fits,several times the end will just 'pop' out ( if you remove the nut first ) I have used this technique on the ocean floor when trying to salvage parts from a wreck that laid on the bottom for years The ser 3 brake and servo assembly will bolt directly to a ser 2 but it is necessary to cut out a part of the wing top, this is covereb by the hood. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Roger Sinasohn Fri Feb 10 17:22:04 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 17:22:04 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: 88" Series III > Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) Up to you, really. My '59 109" has three power outlets in the "glovebox" at the front that I use for any three of: CB Radio, CelPhone, Spotlight, portable video game (yes, I'm a computer nerd), radio, laptop computer (boy, am I a computer nerd or *what*?), etc. There's three more just behind the driver's seat (on top of the cabinets, if they're in) for more stuff. > Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) My '72 88" has a radio sorta just sitting there. I want to build an overhead box-thingie in my 109" for a radio, celphone, CB, GPS, etc. I've seen some really nice ones done. Brad Blevins has a really cool setup (I'm gonna do an article in an upcoming Aluminum Workhorse on his.) > How expensive is it (average) to have a V8 put in an 88" or does it > just not fit or is the general opinion "who would want it now" > hold? Dunno about cost, but Scotty's son Andrew has a sIII 88" with a V8 in it. Rumour is that he's gotten it up to 100mph up in the Black Rock desert. > How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself > in our '82 Toy LC. Depends on the vehicle. Some are really noisy, and some are quite reasonable. Tires, Overdrive, and engine all make a difference. When I switched from macho-big-lug-I'm-a-man tires to radial dual-purpose tires, the difference was very noticeable. If I cruise at 55 or so in 4th-OD, it's quite quiet. Unfortunately, I have a lead foot and have trouble going that slow, except maybe in school zones. 8^O At 70-75 in 4th-OD, you have to talk loud (or turn the radio up) but it's not unbearable. My engine (petrol) is pretty quiet, though. > drive it 160 miles home, then I should expect to change the water > heater and some belts and hoses and all the fluids twice just so I Well... This depends on two things: The vehicle and the Previous Owner (PO). Yes, you can find a vehicle in top notch condition that you don't have to do anything to except fill it with gas and check the oil. But, most PO's are nitwits (even if they're your best friend), and they've done something really silly. The very nature of the Land Rover means that people tend to tinker with them, and then there's a good chance that something's gonna be fouled up. If you buy a vehicle that has just finished being restored, or one that is a daily driver, no, you probably won't need to do major repairs on the way home. But, I think that someone who is selling a vehicle may say to themselves, "I'm selling it, I'm not gonna bother replacing that flaky wire to the backup light" or whatever. So there may be somethings that the PO has let go for a while, knowing that they're just gonna sell it anyway. But, remember, if you keep a cool head and know a little something about working on cars, a Land Rover will *always* get you home. I've had my troubles, but every time, I either was able to get home, or I should have, had I stayed calm and thought about it. When I bought my first Land Rover, I could change a tire. Period. Since then, I've learned a fair bit, but most of what folks talk about here still goes right over my head. Even so, I feel quite confident about taking my Land Rover just about anywhere. I may have to call Scotty to ask what the problem is, or how to fix (or get around) it, but I know I can get home. > Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? Will I be forced to > fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer or will I be able to > reach 55? Depends on the motor, OD or no, etc. My 109" has gotten up to 85mph, but I don't really feel comfortable over 70-75 (3000-3500 rpm, 4-OD). But, going up hills, I have trouble, sometimes having to shift to 3rd, no OD, and yes, once, I was passed by a VW microbus... But, it will get you up the hills. I have the original 4cyl 2.25l engine, btw. > if not a learning experience. ...I really need to learn more about > fixing cars.... Sheesh! Remember also, you're not just buying a car, you're buying a way of life. You instantly have a huge network of friends to rely on. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger When you own a Land Rover, sinasohn@crl.com You have friends you've never met. Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From David John Place Fri Feb 10 20:41:28 1995 Date: Fri, 10 Feb 1995 20:41:28 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest This might be a repeat since I am not sure which address you reply to on the digest but---for those asking about using a dual master with the Land Rover servo, go ahead. I use this setup and I use an Ambassador by American Motors master. It bolts right up to the servo and the only problem seems to be that the little nylon insert which attaches the hose to the servo hits the edge of the top cover of the master. This isn't a big problem however and I simply use a screwdriver to force the bail over the top when I want to close it. No problem with the brake action has been noticed. I have done this to a number of my Rovers and it works just fine not to mention the very loFrom LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:41:56 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:41:56 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: cont. For Sale Another one bites the dust.... .....snip...... > else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my > Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope .....snip...... > you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier > marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law > against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most Gee, Ben.. I don't think that there is any law that says you can't marry a Land Rover.. They certainly are a lot less trouble than women!! :-) She isn't receptive to your Land Rover affliction, eh? Better think twice about this, Ben.. Keep the one your selling and give it to her!! Convert her over! This Land Rover affliction is life-long, she better get used to it. Seriously though.. good luck! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: 88" Series III Taylor asks... > Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? Will you be be peeling your eyeballs off the windscreen? NO, but you will stop, if everything is in working order. But there is the usual drum brake stuff... They don't work as well wet (like after crossing a stream) as they do dry.. you get used to it... > Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you > do it without ripping your knuckles off? If you have freewheeling hubs (They were not standard equipment) you will have to lock the hubs manually. Rip your knuckles off? I use my fingers to lock my hubs... > Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) > Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) You can hang anything you want on the electrical system... within the limits of what Joe Lucas will supply without burning out. Keep in mind the older Rovers could be positive earth (ground) so regular radio connections don't work. You *can* work around it... > How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself > in our '82 Toy LC. What?? Speak up... > From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the > person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" > condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Keep in mind that you'll be buying a vehicle that is over 20 years old. If it was maintained properly, you should be able to drive it home with no problems.. If it sat around idle for a year or two before you bought it, expect the unexpected! As the Canadians say, Shit Happens.. "Perfect Condition"??? What's that?? Oh yeah, they built Land Rovers and MG's using some of the same parts... > Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? Will I be forced to > fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer or will I be able to > reach 55? Do you mean on or off road?? This is *NOT* a highway cruiser. 55 is fine, 60 is probably OK. Past that and it's anyone's guess. Again, it depends on how the vehicle was maintained. > I still am highly interested in getting one so I can have the guy with > the Jeep Renegade drool at it as I pass, but I want to know what I'm He may drool if your passing him while he's stuck... Of course, he may just drool... duhhhhhh... So.. Do you want a Rover for the image or do you want it as a vehicle that will stay with you for a while? Think hard, there's gonna be a quiz later... > getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to > spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, Gee.. I hate to be the one to tell you, but part of owning a Land Rover is learning how to fix it... You learn how to do it right, and you don't spend *all* your time under the hood... :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:40 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Landrover Series III Hi Guy... > I am looking to get in contact with other Landrover owners. I am a > recent new owner of a 1973 Series III that I completely rebuilt. Well.. keep on the LRO list here any you'll see more than a few events. Are you at Clarkson? Pottsdam/Canton area? Contact Dixon Kenner (who is also on this list) about joining the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR). You're not all that far away and they are some serious Land Rover people. Serious beer drinkers, too.. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Spenny@aol.com Sat Feb 11 08:33:12 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 08:33:12 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: 109 HCPU /tires Stephan writes about the 109 HCPU snip... exist a S.III 109 HCPU cab truck 1 Ton, very rare specimen, probably never made an appearance Stateside. It had rims snip... i've seen one in the us, at Rovers North, I think it belonged to mark. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 11 14:36:15 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 14:36:15 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? > My Orvis fly fishing gear has the same thing. It's a prestige thing, if the royal family uses your product you want people to know about it - going for the "if it's good enough for the Queen, it just might be good enough for me" factor. TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Sat Feb 11 09:30:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 09:30:40 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: Dream Sales job? Howdy, For everyone out in internetland, here's a chance to sell your favorite car: from the saturday sacramento (california) bee, sales associate Hubacher Cadillac/Land Rover wants to hire two people with automotive sales backgrounds, apply in person, ask for tony, brad or brian. The dealer sells Cadillacs, Range Rovers and Land Rovers. I met one of the sales men (owns a D90 and is interested in the older series vehicles) at a breakfast of the local sacramento area LROA members. Seems like in Sacramento, sales are good. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From CTPJ@aol.com Sat Feb 11 12:30:41 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:30:41 -0500 From: CTPJ@aol.com Subject: subscribe subscribe From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sat Feb 11 18:31:17 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 18:31:17 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >>And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >>the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? It is kinda like if you do business in Georgia, if you've got Coca-Cola as a customer, then you're ok, though I can't recall seeing 'by appointment to Coca-Cola' :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 13:55:31 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 13:55:31 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Subscribe Subscribe Land-Rover-Owner Stephen G. Loosli From JHowat@aol.com Sat Feb 11 16:08:39 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 16:08:39 -0500 From: JHowat@aol.com Subject: subscription opps Sorry the complete address on the subscription request is jhowat@aol.com Opps TeriAnn From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sat Feb 11 16:13:25 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 16:13:25 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: 6-Cyl vs. V8 I'm trying to psych myself up to purchace an 88" Series III. I live on the edge of the Blue Ridge in northern S.C. and western N.C. and therefore, I do a lot of driving in mountainous terrain. I believe that I will need more power than just the 2.25 l 4-cyl or else I will never be able to get over the mountains. But I've heard that there have been problems with the in-line 6. Am I right? I have missed most of the discussions about them. If anybody has any major points to make known, that would be appreciated. Also, I've heard that people have successfully put the V8 in their SWB vehicles. What's the success rate, and is it worth the trouble? I wouldn't mind having a V8 but if it is most likely going to give me problems in the future, then I don't think it would be prudent. BTW, I'm goin to be getting the thing if at all from a group that builds them or rather rebuilds them to your specs, so the talk of watching where I buy it from can be forgone. (such so people will get to the point is all. :) ) Thanks.. Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 21:32:38 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 21:32:38 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rover Dfndr 110's Hello Land Rover lovers! I have just learned of you through British-Cars, and am thrilled to discover this resource. On with my question. I have been a faithful Toyota Landcruiser fanatic for years (I own two of them). However, one look at the Defender 90, 110 and Discovery models now available in the U.S. has converted me from this folly. I am interested in learning how I might obtain a Defender 110 County and import it to the U.S. (only 500 were made available here, and they are priced as a rare commodity). As I researched this, I began by calling Land Rover North America. The answer was a pretty flat "We have no plans to import that model in the future." Undaunted, I was able to contact the Western U.S. distribution manager for Land Rover. He informed me that the test vehicles brought in to the U.S. DOT were swiss specified, and that he believed they were compatible with U.S. regulations. I then contacted Land Rover in Solihull and visited with the Defender Product manager. He was unwilling to provide any information or speculation beyond mailing me a list of world-wide Land Rover dealers, including the Swiss agent. He was concerned about the liability of appearing to aid in the import of a vehicle to the U.S. looking too much like cooperation. I faxed a request to the Swiss agent and waited. No reply was forthcoming until a couple of weeks later. A letter arrives from Land Rover North America - "We received this request from our agent in Switzerland. We have no plans to import that model to the U.S." What a surprise. I have reviewed the DOT rules and have visited with the San Francisco Port Manager for U.S. Customs. If the vehicle arrives already titled in my name, the U.S. Customs procedures are pretty easy to deal with; import duty, inspection, etc. The cost would'nt be the $5000.00 most people readily quote, but more likely $1500.00. Remember, this is only IF the vehicle is already titled in my name and is considered an "informal" importation. Does anyone have any experience in this area? Any suggestions on how to get around the Land Rover bottleneck? I don't want to deceive the Swiss ageFrom maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Sat Feb 11 22:15:53 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 22:15:53 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Taylor's 88 Questions Taylor asked: none Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? none Like a truck. I drive mine with a bit more respect than my commuter car. And I avoid heavy stop & go traffic. Not fun. none Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you do it without ripping your knuckles off? none Yes. You may have to get your feet dirty if you haven't thought ahead. But it's better than some of the shift on the fly systems, where you have to be on the fly to shift (older Cherokees come to mind, if you get stuck in 2wd, you're stuck- 4wd cannot be engaged on some at a standstill w/o lots of nasty grinding noises). There are a variety of hubs on the market, and some are easier than others. none Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) Are there problems with the 6 cylinders that no one has talked about? How expensive is it (average) to have a V8 put in an 88" or does it just not fit or is the general opinion "who would want it now" hold? How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself in our '82 Toy LC. none Many have tackled all of the above, but if accessories, power, and noise levels are important to you, I think you're probably better off sticking with your Blazer (they are considerably noisier than a Blazer). >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the none person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that was this. The FAQ tended to give the impression that if I were to drive it 160 miles home, then I should expect to change the water heater and some belts and hoses and all the fluids twice just so I could get home. Now is this a LR or a MG?! >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the I'm not quite clear on what you mean here. But from my own experience, it took 2 months of nights & weekends to get my 88 on the road after I got it home and 3 months for my 109 (to a point where they were safe, reliable, and that no fluids poured out as fast as they were poured in). I have to admit I I'm a bit on the slow & methodical side. >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the The person I talked to about buying one said that there was not that threat of something breaking looming over your shoulder like that, in fact nothing like that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Of course I would if I were to take cow paths for 160 miles but on interstate? With a 10 gal. tank, I might have to fill up once but I would not like to have to tighten the steering column and replace the ball joints for the steering at the same stop? What good is it to survive getting run over by a rhinocerous when you just have to replace all the belts when you start to run away? >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the Once I attended to all of the things that were wrong from the time I bought mine, they have been pretty reliable. Things that stopped me were: distributor earth wire snapped (109), original fuel pump failed(88), original water pump failed on one (88), and a brand new one failed on the other (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). If you buy a used one, expect there to be a bunch of things wrong with it from the start. Note all you can find, then multiply it by 3 or 4 to get an idea of how much work & $ you have ahead of you. The tank holds about 12 US gal. I get about 19 on the highway. Some folks get more, some less. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Eventually. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Will I be forced to fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Nope. But if you happen to be in front of one going up that mountain, expect him and all the other truckers behind you to say lots of bad things about you, on the CB as they have about Jim Allen, Sandy, & TerriAnn. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). or will I be able to reach 55? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Of course. But only if it's a short mountain. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). I want to know what I'm getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, if not a learning experience. ...I really need to learn more about fixing cars.... Sheesh! (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Taylor, I'm not sure a LR is what you want. Part of why I like mine is because they are a diversion that allows me to tinker and keep up my mechanical skills. I also like the simplicity of the vehicle - it's relatively easy to work on and there's not a whole lot to go wrong once you've set it right. Today I've got the time and enough money to keep them going. I didn't when I was in school. I couldn't imagine getting one as a full time student with no money (at least I had no money). You also have to devote a fair amount of time to it in the beginning, and simple as they are, you've got to learn a few things about fixing the vehicle. As much as I've always wanted one, in the beginning there were times when I got really frustrated and discouraged with the amount of things I had to tackle on mine, and most of what I did I learned as I went along. But I must admit, I'm glad I stuck with it. I've wanted a Rover ever since I was a little kid and it's really become a passion. I guess the best advice I can give you is to give it a lot of thought before you jump into anything. Look before you leap! Bill 88 IIA & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From Russell Burns Sat Feb 11 20:37:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 20:37:20 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Rube Goldberg yakima ski rack Well I got the yakima rack on the truck. The trick was to weld gutters to the truck. Actually I welded the gutters to some 90 degree .25 " thick shelf brackets with an added twist. The shelf brackets were about 6" high, so I got enough clearance for the hardtop. I used some 1.75" muffler clamps, and bolted the shelf bracket with the attacked gutter to the external roll cage out side the front doors. I also had to weld a support bar, so the who thing looks like a triangle. I am not too sure how I am gong to get at the ski's, maybe I will have to weld up a ladder to get at them. Russ Burns It a warm -10 F for those of you that have some real cold.. From David John Place Sat Feb 11 23:34:58 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 23:34:58 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Insulation for Land Rover Does anyone know the correct name for the expanded rubbery styro-foam like material used as packing for electronic parts. I want a non hydroscopic expanded foam in the doors of my Rover, but don't know what to ask for. Dave VE4PN From S|ren Vels Christensen Sun Feb 12 06:52:25 1995 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 06:52:25 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: SIGN! (90kb) Most honourable listmembers. Many of you received a sample sign by e-mail just before christmas. A sign that can only be used for a limited period of time within the year. Granville Poole and i have made the final modifications to the original and wish to propose this for the official "club" sign. Please excuse me while i address the latest members to the list. Last autumn there was a discussion about converting this mailing list into something else than a mailing list. Some suggested that we made this a real club with numbers and all. Others suggested the list be replaced by a newsgroup. There even was a poll for a name for this newsgroupclublikething. Some of these names were the result of huge brainpower discharges. (I bet Maloney sat on the mountain shifting letter-bricks for days ;-) ). Well, to make a long entertaining story short; we ended up with a mailing list called "lro@team.net" (@stratus.com). Then Granville mentionend that he was working on a sign. And i can't keep my mouse shut. Due to an example of international cooperation and understanding, the sign is now ready to be evaluated. The image is prepared in the increasingly popular JPEG format, uuencode, and attached directly under this text to avoid some decoding problems experienced earlier. I can also provide .GIF or .CDR (scalable) if desired. In the image are some very Land-Rover specific symbolic. They can easily be spotted by anyone with 90wt in the veins. 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M(3T28O>5X'H?ANW^S:#:*0H+)O.WOGG\\$5P.O\`_(=O?^NS?SKU%0%4*H`` M&`!VKR[7_P#D.WO_`%V;^=>=ELN>M.7?_,VKJT4CN_"O_(NV?T;_`-"-<]X] MG+7]K;X&$B+@^NXX_P#9:WO",JR>'K<*>4+*WUR3_6N5\:3-)K[HP&(HU1<> MF,_S)J<+&^-EY7'4?[I&QFrom "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:32 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Leslie's in Seattle next week, then NYC I'm making a trip out to Seattle next week and the following week I'm in Staten Island/NYC. If any of you want to get together and talk Rovers (or anything else for that matter) email or ring me and leave a message! Cheers Leslie Stutsman U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 "2 Land Rovers in Florida Others available - leave daytime tel #" From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:48 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: William Dan Terry's troubles Willam- Sorry to hear of all your problems. It is a shame that your first experience with a land rover has started off on such a bad foot (who as the fella anyhow) It will get better. ( I guess it only can, actually) About the choke. Only ever pull it out about 1/4 of the way. People have a tendancy to yank the thing all the way out right from the beginning, and it takes the engine a lot longer time to recover and come into synchro with the rest of the world. It WILL need choke though to warm up and what you are experiencing is not uncommon. Try it with just a 1/4 -1/3 out for a while, and see if it runs any better after. If it doesn't, then come back and discuss how it did react. Or email me your tel# and we can walk it through. cheers Leslie U.K. Land Rover Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:41:56 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:41:56 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: cont. For Sale Another one bites the dust.... .....snip...... > else can I say..oh, my fiancee' isn't all that receptive to my > Land Rover affliction...so I thought I'd push the envelope .....snip...... > you how've already met me and my future bride...I'd be happier > marring the Land Rover of course but I think there's a law > against that..? Oh well to my friends any help would be most Gee, Ben.. I don't think that there is any law that says you can't marry a Land Rover.. They certainly are a lot less trouble than women!! :-) She isn't receptive to your Land Rover affliction, eh? Better think twice about this, Ben.. Keep the one your selling and give it to her!! Convert her over! This Land Rover affliction is life-long, she better get used to it. Seriously though.. good luck! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:20 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: 88" Series III Taylor asks... > Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? Will you be be peeling your eyeballs off the windscreen? NO, but you will stop, if everything is in working order. But there is the usual drum brake stuff... They don't work as well wet (like after crossing a stream) as they do dry.. you get used to it... > Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you > do it without ripping your knuckles off? If you have freewheeling hubs (They were not standard equipment) you will have to lock the hubs manually. Rip your knuckles off? I use my fingers to lock my hubs... > Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) > Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) You can hang anything you want on the electrical system... within the limits of what Joe Lucas will supply without burning out. Keep in mind the older Rovers could be positive earth (ground) so regular radio connections don't work. You *can* work around it... > How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself > in our '82 Toy LC. What?? Speak up... > From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the > person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" > condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Keep in mind that you'll be buying a vehicle that is over 20 years old. If it was maintained properly, you should be able to drive it home with no problems.. If it sat around idle for a year or two before you bought it, expect the unexpected! As the Canadians say, Shit Happens.. "Perfect Condition"??? What's that?? Oh yeah, they built Land Rovers and MG's using some of the same parts... > Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? Will I be forced to > fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer or will I be able to > reach 55? Do you mean on or off road?? This is *NOT* a highway cruiser. 55 is fine, 60 is probably OK. Past that and it's anyone's guess. Again, it depends on how the vehicle was maintained. > I still am highly interested in getting one so I can have the guy with > the Jeep Renegade drool at it as I pass, but I want to know what I'm He may drool if your passing him while he's stuck... Of course, he may just drool... duhhhhhh... So.. Do you want a Rover for the image or do you want it as a vehicle that will stay with you for a while? Think hard, there's gonna be a quiz later... > getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to > spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, Gee.. I hate to be the one to tell you, but part of owning a Land Rover is learning how to fix it... You learn how to do it right, and you don't spend *all* your time under the hood... :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Feb 11 02:42:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 02:42:40 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Landrover Series III Hi Guy... > I am looking to get in contact with other Landrover owners. I am a > recent new owner of a 1973 Series III that I completely rebuilt. Well.. keep on the LRO list here any you'll see more than a few events. Are you at Clarkson? Pottsdam/Canton area? Contact Dixon Kenner (who is also on this list) about joining the Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR). You're not all that far away and they are some serious Land Rover people. Serious beer drinkers, too.. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Spenny@aol.com Sat Feb 11 08:33:12 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 08:33:12 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: 109 HCPU /tires Stephan writes about the 109 HCPU snip... exist a S.III 109 HCPU cab truck 1 Ton, very rare specimen, probably never made an appearance Stateside. It had rims snip... i've seen one in the us, at Rovers North, I think it belonged to mark. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Simon Hobson Sat Feb 11 14:36:15 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 14:36:15 +0100 From: Simon Hobson Subject: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? > My Orvis fly fishing gear has the same thing. It's a prestige thing, if the royal family uses your product you want people to know about it - going for the "if it's good enough for the Queen, it just might be good enough for me" factor. TTFN, Simon =========================================================================== | Simon Hobson - Carrier Communications Ltd | | simon@ccomms.demon.co.uk voice +44 1229 581357 fax +44 1229 581203 | =========================================================================== From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Sat Feb 11 09:30:40 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 09:30:40 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: Dream Sales job? Howdy, For everyone out in internetland, here's a chance to sell your favorite car: from the saturday sacramento (california) bee, sales associate Hubacher Cadillac/Land Rover wants to hire two people with automotive sales backgrounds, apply in person, ask for tony, brad or brian. The dealer sells Cadillacs, Range Rovers and Land Rovers. I met one of the sales men (owns a D90 and is interested in the older series vehicles) at a breakfast of the local sacramento area LROA members. Seems like in Sacramento, sales are good. John Hess, PhD Phone me 916 752 8420 Dept of Human Anatomy FAX me (ask first or I may get in trouble) University of Calif Davis, CA Email me jfhess@ucdavis.edu From CTPJ@aol.com Sat Feb 11 12:30:41 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 12:30:41 -0500 From: CTPJ@aol.com Subject: subscribe subscribe From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sat Feb 11 18:31:17 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 18:31:17 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: By Appointment to ... (was D90 Advert) >>And hey, a question for the UK folks: Why do English products always have >>the four "By Appointment To ..." crests displayed in their ads and packaging? It is kinda like if you do business in Georgia, if you've got Coca-Cola as a customer, then you're ok, though I can't recall seeing 'by appointment to Coca-Cola' :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 13:55:31 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 13:55:31 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Subscribe Subscribe Land-Rover-Owner Stephen G. Loosli From JHowat@aol.com Sat Feb 11 16:08:39 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 16:08:39 -0500 From: JHowat@aol.com Subject: subscription opps Sorry the complete address on the subscription request is jhowat@aol.com Opps TeriAnn From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Sat Feb 11 16:13:25 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 16:13:25 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: 6-Cyl vs. V8 I'm trying to psych myself up to purchace an 88" Series III. I live on the edge of the Blue Ridge in northern S.C. and western N.C. and therefore, I do a lot of driving in mountainous terrain. I believe that I will need more power than just the 2.25 l 4-cyl or else I will never be able to get over the mountains. But I've heard that there have been problems with the in-line 6. Am I right? I have missed most of the discussions about them. If anybody has any major points to make known, that would be appreciated. Also, I've heard that people have successfully put the V8 in their SWB vehicles. What's the success rate, and is it worth the trouble? I wouldn't mind having a V8 but if it is most likely going to give me problems in the future, then I don't think it would be prudent. BTW, I'm goin to be getting the thing if at all from a group that builds them or rather rebuilds them to your specs, so the talk of watching where I buy it from can be forgone. (such so people will get to the point is all. :) ) Thanks.. Taylor -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From AshtonLand@aol.com Sat Feb 11 21:32:38 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 21:32:38 -0500 From: AshtonLand@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rover Dfndr 110's Hello Land Rover lovers! I have just learned of you through British-Cars, and am thrilled to discover this resource. On with my question. I have been a faithful Toyota Landcruiser fanatic for years (I own two of them). However, one look at the Defender 90, 110 and Discovery models now available in the U.S. has converted me from this folly. I am interested in learning how I might obtain a Defender 110 County and import it to the U.S. (only 500 were made available here, and they are priced as a rare commodity). As I researched this, I began by calling Land Rover North America. The answer was a pretty flat "We have no plans to import that model in the future." Undaunted, I was able to contact the Western U.S. distribution manager for Land Rover. He informed me that the test vehicles brought in to the U.S. DOT were swiss specified, and that he believed they were compatible with U.S. regulations. I then contacted Land Rover in Solihull and visited with the Defender Product manager. He was unwilling to provide any information or speculation beyond mailing me a list of world-wide Land Rover dealers, including the Swiss agent. He was concerned about the liability of appearing to aid in the import of a vehicle to the U.S. looking too much like cooperation. I faxed a request to the Swiss agent and waited. No reply was forthcoming until a couple of weeks later. A letter arrives from Land Rover North America - "We received this request from our agent in Switzerland. We have no plans to import that model to the U.S." What a surprise. I have reviewed the DOT rules and have visited with the San Francisco Port Manager for U.S. Customs. If the vehicle arrives already titled in my name, the U.S. Customs procedures are pretty easy to deal with; import duty, inspection, etc. The cost would'nt be the $5000.00 most people readily quote, but more likely $1500.00. Remember, this is only IF the vehicle is already titled in my name and is considered an "informal" importation. Does anyone have any experience in this area? Any suggestions on how to get around the Land Rover bottleneck? I don't want to deceive the Swiss agent, but I am of Swiss heritage and have access to relatives in Switzerland who can assist with an address, etc. I look forward to a reply, and am happy to cooperate with any list member in any way. I also make an open invitation to any member who would like to come and try their hand at the Rubicon Trail or Sierra Trek, located high in the Sierra Nevadas near Lake Tahoe. I live in Reno, minutes from Lake Tahoe, and would be happy to volunteer as trail guide or host. For now, you'll have to forgive the 1971 Toyota Landcruiser in the driveway! Sincerely, Stephen Loosli AshtonLand@aol.com From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Sat Feb 11 22:15:53 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 22:15:53 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Taylor's 88 Questions Taylor asked: none Drum brakes...(Y/N)...How well do the servo assited ones stop? none Like a truck. I drive mine with a bit more respect than my commuter car. And I avoid heavy stop & go traffic. Not fun. none Do you have to get out and lock the hubs manually?...(Y/N)...can you do it without ripping your knuckles off? none Yes. You may have to get your feet dirty if you haven't thought ahead. But it's better than some of the shift on the fly systems, where you have to be on the fly to shift (older Cherokees come to mind, if you get stuck in 2wd, you're stuck- 4wd cannot be engaged on some at a standstill w/o lots of nasty grinding noises). There are a variety of hubs on the market, and some are easier than others. none Internal electrical system for say spotlights and phones...(Y/N) Possibility for a cheap radio...(Y/N) Are there problems with the 6 cylinders that no one has talked about? How expensive is it (average) to have a V8 put in an 88" or does it just not fit or is the general opinion "who would want it now" hold? How noisy is noisy? My Blazer gets noisy and I couldn't hear myself in our '82 Toy LC. none Many have tackled all of the above, but if accessories, power, and noise levels are important to you, I think you're probably better off sticking with your Blazer (they are considerably noisier than a Blazer). >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the none person I was talking to about purchasing a refurbished one, and that was this. The FAQ tended to give the impression that if I were to drive it 160 miles home, then I should expect to change the water heater and some belts and hoses and all the fluids twice just so I could get home. Now is this a LR or a MG?! >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the I'm not quite clear on what you mean here. But from my own experience, it took 2 months of nights & weekends to get my 88 on the road after I got it home and 3 months for my 109 (to a point where they were safe, reliable, and that no fluids poured out as fast as they were poured in). I have to admit I I'm a bit on the slow & methodical side. >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the The person I talked to about buying one said that there was not that threat of something breaking looming over your shoulder like that, in fact nothing like that at all. Who's right? If I were to get an LR in "perfect" condition, should I expect this kind of thing? Of course I would if I were to take cow paths for 160 miles but on interstate? With a 10 gal. tank, I might have to fill up once but I would not like to have to tighten the steering column and replace the ball joints for the steering at the same stop? What good is it to survive getting run over by a rhinocerous when you just have to replace all the belts when you start to run away? >From reading the FAQ, I got a different opinion from that of the Once I attended to all of the things that were wrong from the time I bought mine, they have been pretty reliable. Things that stopped me were: distributor earth wire snapped (109), original fuel pump failed(88), original water pump failed on one (88), and a brand new one failed on the other (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). If you buy a used one, expect there to be a bunch of things wrong with it from the start. Note all you can find, then multiply it by 3 or 4 to get an idea of how much work & $ you have ahead of you. The tank holds about 12 US gal. I get about 19 on the highway. Some folks get more, some less. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Finally, how do these things drive up mountains? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Eventually. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Will I be forced to fall in behind the Mayflower tractor trailer (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Nope. But if you happen to be in front of one going up that mountain, expect him and all the other truckers behind you to say lots of bad things about you, on the CB as they have about Jim Allen, Sandy, & TerriAnn. (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). or will I be able to reach 55? (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Of course. But only if it's a short mountain. :-) (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). I want to know what I'm getting myself into, first. I'm a student, and I don't have time to spend all my time under the hood of the thing, fun though it may be, if not a learning experience. ...I really need to learn more about fixing cars.... Sheesh! (109-replaced under warrantee), original radiator gave out (88). Taylor, I'm not sure a LR is what you want. Part of why I like mine is because they are a diversion that allows me to tinker and keep up my mechanical skills. I also like the simplicity of the vehicle - it's relatively easy to work on and there's not a whole lot to go wrong once you've set it right. Today I've got the time and enough money to keep them going. I didn't when I was in school. I couldn't imagine getting one as a full time student with no money (at least I had no money). You also have to devote a fair amount of time to it in the beginning, and simple as they are, you've got to learn a few things about fixing the vehicle. As much as I've always wanted one, in the beginning there were times when I got really frustrated and discouraged with the amount of things I had to tackle on mine, and most of what I did I learned as I went along. But I must admit, I'm glad I stuck with it. I've wanted a Rover ever since I was a little kid and it's really become a passion. I guess the best advice I can give you is to give it a lot of thought before you jump into anything. Look before you leap! Bill 88 IIA & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From Russell Burns Sat Feb 11 20:37:20 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 95 20:37:20 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Rube Goldberg yakima ski rack Well I got the yakima rack on the truck. The trick was to weld gutters to the truck. Actually I welded the gutters to some 90 degree .25 " thick shelf brackets with an added twist. The shelf brackets were about 6" high, so I got enough clearance for the hardtop. I used some 1.75" muffler clamps, and bolted the shelf bracket with the attacked gutter to the external roll cage out side the front doors. I also had to weld a support bar, so the who thing looks like a triangle. I am not too sure how I am gong to get at the ski's, maybe I will have to weld up a ladder to get at them. Russ Burns It a warm -10 F for those of you that have some real cold.. From David John Place Sat Feb 11 23:34:58 1995 Date: Sat, 11 Feb 1995 23:34:58 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Insulation for Land Rover Does anyone know the correct name for the expanded rubbery styro-foam like material used as packing for electronic parts. I want a non hydroscopic expanded foam in the doors of my Rover, but don't know what to ask for. Dave VE4PN From S|ren Vels Christensen Sun Feb 12 06:52:25 1995 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 1995 06:52:25 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: SIGN! (90kb) Most honourable listmembers. Many of you received a sample sign by e-mail just before christmas. A sign that can only be used for a limited period of time within the year. Granville Poole and i have made the final modifications to the original and wish to propose this for the official "club" sign. Please excuse me while i address the latest members to the list. Last autumn there was a discussion about converting this mailing list into something else than a mailing list. Some suggested that we made this a real club with numbers and all. Others suggested the list be replaced by a newsgroup. There even was a poll for a name for this newsgroupclublikething. Some of these names were the result of huge brainpower discharges. (I bet Maloney sat on the mountain shifting letter-bricks for days ;-) ). Well, to make a long entertaining story short; we ended up with a mailing list called "lro@team.net" (@stratus.com). Then Granville mentionend that he was working on a sign. And i can't keep my mouse shut. Due to an example of international cooperation and understanding, the sign is now ready to be evaluated. The image is prepared in the increasingly popular JPEG format, uuencode, and attached directly under this text to avoid some decoding problems experienced earlier. I can also provide .GIF or .CDR (scalable) if desired. In the image are some very Land-Rover specific symbolic. They can easily be spotted by anyone with 90wt in the veins. 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M[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S M[E3^SH?[S_F/\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^ M\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/ M[.A_O/\`F/\`"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F M/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^ MSH?[S_F/\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC M_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_ MO/\`F/\`"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*M MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[ MS_F/\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K= M%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/\` MF/\`"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4 MZ'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_F/ M\*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U. MA_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/\`F/\` M"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J M#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_F/\*/[ M.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@ M]K/N5/[.A_O/^8_PH_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N5/[.A_O/\`F/\`"C^S MH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^Y4_LZ'^\_YC_"C^SH?[S_F/\*MT4?4Z'\J#VL^ MY4_LZ'^\_P"8_P`*/[.A_O/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_F/\*/[.A_O M/^8_PJW11]3H?RH/:S[E3^SH?[S_`)C_``H_LZ'^\_YC_"K=%'U.A_*@]K/N M5/[/A_O/^8J46L`&/+'XU-15QPU&.T4)SD^HBJ%&%``]!2T45NE8D****!'_ !V0`` ` end From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:32 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Leslie's in Seattle next week, then NYC I'm making a trip out to Seattle next week and the following week I'm in Staten Island/NYC. If any of you want to get together and talk Rovers (or anything else for that matter) email or ring me and leave a message! Cheers Leslie Stutsman U.K. Land Rovers Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 "2 Land Rovers in Florida Others available - leave daytime tel #" From "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Feb EST 1901 Date: 12 Feb 95 01:33:48 EST From: "LESLIE C. STUTSMAN" <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: William Dan Terry's troubles Willam- Sorry to hear of all your problems. It is a shame that your first experience with a land rover has started off on such a bad foot (who as the fella anyhow) It will get better. ( I guess it only can, actually) About the choke. Only ever pull it out about 1/4 of the way. People have a tendancy to yank the thing all the way out right from the beginning, and it takes the engine a lot longer time to recover and come into synchro with the rest of the world. It WILL need choke though to warm up and what you are experiencing is not uncommon. Try it with just a 1/4 -1/3 out for a while, and see if it runs any better after. If it doesn't, then come back and discuss how it did react. Or email me your tel# and we can walk it through. cheers Leslie U.K. Land Rover Import/Export Co. 813-954-4304 From Falco@Microserve.com (Falco) Mon Feb 13 07:09:15 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 07:09:15 EST From: Falco@Microserve.com (Falco) Subject: digest version? is there a digest version of this mailing list. if so how can i subscribe to it ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Don't be afraid to be weak, Don't be too proud to be strong Just look into your heart my friend, That will be the return to yourself The return to Innocence (Enigma2) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From SE THOMAS 13 95 Feb GMT 1913 Date: 13 Feb 95 13:01:46 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: *Shell* shocked......... I recently announced that my 2.25 was in fact a 2 litre diesel. This at the time didn't bother me, I never expected startling performance, I just wanted to improve the 15-18 mpg fuel consumption. It turns out the bore was okay, and that the main problem was the valve guides which had no oil seals and were permitting oil to pour into the pistons. So in pursuit of oil control rings (suggested by the people doing the work) for the gap below the gudgeon pin (which 'the shop',name witheld, I phoned assured they had) and other *consumables* such as main and big-end shells, I set off. On arrival at the shop the existence of oil control rings or a twenty ring set, present or past, was totally denied (they didn't even confirm this with me at first, they just put the set on the bench). To top this (although this wasn't their fault....it just came on top of the ring fiasco) they informed me that the 30 quid set of main bearings for a 2.25 were 100 quid for the equivalent 2 litre shells. I didn't even ask about the big end shells....... In dismay I left only purchasing top and bottom hoses, and the outcome is that I shall be rebuilding the engine (turkey??) with existing bearings and a new set of 16 rings. I will replace the valve guides (2.25 interchangeable) and hopefully the pre-combustion chambers (are they the same as the 2.25 too?? They may also be known as Swirl chambers/ Hot Spots etc.), which are cracked. In the short term this should give me an engine for the Landy, with probably better consumption than before, and will enable me to save/search for a good 2.25. I want to stay diesel for the fuel, even though they are a bit more expensive. Any-one want a 2 litre diesel, good runner but impossible to afford replacement parts for?????????? Stephen Thomas "How come it never rains, it only pours. They looked into each other's eyes....." - The Dogs D'amour, 'How come it never rains' From Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1908 Date: 13 Feb 95 08:42:25 EST From: Pierce Reid <70004.4011@compuserve.com> Subject: Who'se from Clarkson? Who is at Clarkson on this list? Is there a Land Rover haunting the campus of my Alma Mater? Enquiring Alumni Want to know! Cheers. R. Pierce Reid '62 IIa 88 Military Clarkson Class of 88 -- Tech. Communications From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Mon Feb 13 08:59:42 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 08:59:42 -0500 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Re: Waterproof Sealant I used that 3M calking...comes rolled in a strip...to outline floor boards and seat box. The good thing about this stuff, I am told, is it can be easily removed. So far no leaks. >I remember reading on this digest a discussion about sealant for the floors >>and seatbox. Any recommend any good sealant ?? Chris Stevens 1969 SRIIA 88" Towson, Maryland (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Easton Trevor Mon Feb 13 08:59:00 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 08:59:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: TARC Errata; I sent the wrong address for the Toronto Area Rover Club because I had been given it wrongly. The correct one for anyone who wants to join at $22 can or $16 us is:- c/o Philip Rodrigues 17 Jordonroch Court, Scarborough, ONT MIW 3S9 (Please mention Internet referal) From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Feb 13 09:18:56 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:18:56 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Re: Why a L-R? Hat's off to you Gerry, for thoughts on why to choose a Land Rover! I kept thinking today as I was driving my Rover, that I was quite content to be driving it and not my Volvo, even though it was -20 here in Canada, and the Volvo would have been a lot warmer. It really is the character and charisma of the Rover which makes the difference. I would miss it a lot! I plan to keep driving it as long as I am able, then pass it on to my son to take care of. Cheers! Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse - currently under restoration From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Feb 13 09:55:43 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 09:55:43 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Techno-Weld On page 60 of the February issue of LRO, it mentions a new innovative aluminium fusion welding process called Techno-Weld. I was wondering if any folks in UK could shed some light on this process, or provide the phone number or fax for Techno-Weld of Aston, Oxfordshire. Cheers! Richard Wegner 74 Land Rover Series III 88 RR 4 - workhorse, travelling companion Quyon Quebec Canada J0X 2V0 67 Austin Healey 3000 - for fun! rwegner@fimage.synapse - currently under restoration From SE THOMAS 13 95 Feb GMT 1915 Date: 13 Feb 95 15:47:59 GMT From: SE THOMAS Subject: Re: *Shell* shocked......... Mike, thanks for putting me straight on the rings, at the time I could only go on what I'd been told.....I should have aired it here first and saved myself all the hassle! Stephen "Thing's just seem to go wrong, far too many times" The Dogs D'amour, 'Things just seem to go wrong' From Sanna@aol.com Mon Feb 13 11:18:25 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 11:18:25 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... Taylor asks: A cell phone works from a moving LR, but you have to shout, and expect comments like "Are you calling from a steel mill?". Forget the CD player (call it Skippy). Forget the radio. I've done them both. Enjoy the contemplative sounds of moving metal. Anything that has to be played through a speaker has to be turned up so loud that it's holy distortion. Unless, of course, you spend the $$ to turn your truck into a BOOM-Rover. Yech! < True, I'll have to get used to getting out to lock the hubs> DON'T DO IT! Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd. I don't know who sold you on the idea of hubs, but you don't need them. They're a real minus on a Rover. Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or if you want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR hand trottles. No contest. The IIa is the better machine. No polution crud on the engine. A REAL metal dashboard. A better (& funkier) transmission. Air vents that suck real bugs into the cab. If your the type that chases down every squeek & rattle, you'll have your hands full. A Rover is mechanically straight forward & easy to work on. It's basically an overgrown Erector Set, built to be fixed with a rock & a hammer while stuck in a sand dune. Tony From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 13 12:40:58 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 12:40:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: > DON'T DO IT! Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd. I don't > know who sold you on the idea of hubs, but you don't need them. They're a > real minus on a Rover. Matter of debate really... I keep them locked driving about town, but it helps if you can unlock them for the highway... > Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or if you > want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR > hand trottles. I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of these... Rgds, From Mike Fredette Mon Feb 13 10:25:50 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:25:50 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. Dixon's at it again. > What do you see the III offering that is so much better than a IIA? > Granted the III has a lot to offer over a 90, but... What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an opening to stick it to us. I fail to understand why you think that any Land Rover less than 25-30 years old is junk. We went round the mullberry bush on this once before, but is it because you're jealous because of the cost, or what exactly? Someday you'll have to come down to Portland for the Nothwest Challenge and we'll see who has the better equipment. Statements like "Call me in 30 years" are rather silly considering that you are ALWAYS repairing your 30 year old vehicles anyway. In 30 years, I'm quite sure the D90's will need work too. (Hint, here's where you take your shot). I'll be able to buy parts, but will you? Will Land Rover still support the 60 year old Series trucks? Silly to speculate on, so let's keep things in the present for the sake of sane discussion. In the present here and now, the D90 IS a superior vehicle, particularly in TDi form. Pity they don't import it to the US. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Or D90 From "John R. Benham" Mon Feb 13 10:49:12 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:49:12 +1100 From: "John R. Benham" Subject: Lockheed Brake Shoes Dear LRO's, WARNING ON BRAKE SHOES: This weekend I installed new brake shoes on my 1968 IIA 88. The shoes that were sent to me were the Lockheed BS-053. Everything on them was identical to the Girlings except the hole diameter and thread pitch was different for the lower retainer ring/plate bolts. So a 30 minute/wheel job took a lot longer since I had to redrill and thread the two holes on each respective shoe per wheel. And yes, the brakes work great now! Lesson learned: Before one orders brake shoes, one should ask if they are identical to the Girlings! Also, a 15-foot length of 1/4" ID clear plastic tubing works great for bleeding and flushing out the old brake fluid from each wheel brake cylinder. Just remember to use Castrol GT-LMA DOT 3 & 4 brake fluid for seal compatability. Later, John R. Benham Spokane, WA USA 1968 IIA 88 `Bwana Mobile' From Russell Burns Mon Feb 13 10:54:02 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 10:54:02 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: DEF 90 Triv > *Hey Jim, wow - this car's is awesome - I really love it. I just cruised up > through twin peaks at 70 mph. An guess what? I got 255 miles on a tank of good [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > to get to the station. He shook his head and said **I think you spent too much > on the car and not enough on gas!** Awesome!* I got 248 mile on one ofmy first tankfuls. I was trying to get the low fuel light to come on. After I rtfm, I realized how futile it was. Russ Burns From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Feb 13 11:17:05 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 11:17:05 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: SF bay area - interesting LR at Scottys Sorry to blast the whole list with this. But there is an interesting Land Rover currently sitting in Scotty's driveway that some people who are nearby might want to drop by o look at..and urge Scotty to work on my 109 ;*) I don't think it will be there longer than a week or two so if your are intersted in seeing it... The car is a Dormobile, - has a four cylinder engine (All dormobiles I have seen to date are 6 cyl). - has the bug eye outer headlamps that was used only a short time. - has factory external bug screens over the side windows - Has FACTORY air conditioning! I didn't even know there was factory air conditioning for the series IIA Land Rover! The first thing you notice is the rounded section of sheet metal coming out of a cut away section of the rear of the bonnet. It looks like no land Rover bonnet I've ever seen (modified from the delux bonnet). If you pop the bonnet, there is this huge box sitting high on the bulkhead covering the rear third of the engine, and an air conditioning pump on the right. The battery & aircleaner have been moved to fit this stuff. The cowel vents are sealed (inside half of each covered by air conditioner. The air conditioning vents are where the adjusters for the cowel vent adjuster goes. There are a few minor trim differences above the instrument panel as well. Scotty has a photocopy of the original invoice for that car that he showed me listing the air conditioner. I did get some digital pictures of the air conditioning unit. I'll try to get time to get them posted to the LR web server. I also got a couple of shots of the neat shovel mount on Uncle Roger's 109 He has a shovel mount on the top of the left side wing. I've been jealous about it since I first saw it. When I get my LR back, one of the first things I do, other than make a dump run & drive my dog around, is try to put a Roger style shovel mount on my 109 so I can be like Uncle Roger ;*) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 13 14:58:33 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 14:58:33 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Mike Fredette wrote: > Dixon's at it again. Seems like it... > What is it with you that you feel this compulsion to bash the newer > Land Rover vehicles and by default, their owners?! You seem to never miss an > opening to stick it to us. Actually, if you go back over the past year of so, you will see that I have been rather amiss. There are many opportunities that I have missed here. In fact I have even glossed over articles in LRO magazine that could be highly amusing when talking with you. I just rose to the occasion when someone posted, regarding Series electrical systems, "better yet, get a D90". Might I postulate that you are far faster to jump in when a perceived slight occurs. In fact I seem to observe that you generally jump more often when I have fired a round rather than someone else. Oh well... :-) As per the owners, there is a certain catagory that I find a wee bit contemptious, though I can assure you that despite your perceptions is not limited to the D90 crowd. > I fail to understand why you think that any Land Rover > less than 25-30 years old is junk. Their not. If I ever get a 101, it certainly will not be 25-30 years old. I wouldn't mind an earlier two door Range Rover or a rolling coil sprung chassis to play with. > We went round the mullberry bush on this once before, but is it because > you're jealous because of the cost, or what exactly? You don't seem to remmeber the last go round I guess. If I wanted a D90, I could go out and buy one this afternoon. However I haven't done that. As before, I have serious concerns relating to longevity, etc. I also have observations about the profile of LR ownership. Both have idiots amongst their membership, but vehicle type seems to have a preponderance of status seekers, people who could change the oil if their life depended on it, have no appreciation of history... You know the type, the people that you have met that have vehicles that will never go off-road, can't tell a Disco or Range Rover from any Series (D90 included) vehicle. The chap that Sandy met in a parking lot comes to mind. A similar breed are those that want to look cool, just like the owners of white Bronco's that have suddenly hit the top of the charts in sales... But we have been through this before & I am sure we will probably go round again in another six months. I really don't care, though I find the exchanges rather fun & enjoyable... <:-) > be able to buy parts, but will you? Will Land Rover still support the 60 > year old Series trucks? Who cares. Take a look at the vintage automobile scene around the world, if not just in the USA. I see a number of 60+ year old vehicles still puttering about. If there is a buck to be made, someone will be making those parts. Why else can you get Series One parts that were NLA, for many many years, again? I'm not worried. Rgds, Dixon [lots of Series trash] PS. Someday I may make it to the Northwest for one of these Rally's Challenges etc. It would be interesting, thanks for the invite. Of course, you are invited to the east coast stuff, like the OVLR Birthday Party. In fact, I would hope you would bring your 90. None of the 90 owners I've ever met would dream of bringing them on a mud run. You would be refreshing... From Spenny@aol.com Mon Feb 13 15:17:11 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 15:17:11 -0500 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: 109 HCPU /tires steve writes... snip... Mark Letouney's 109 hi-cap was just that ..a hi-cap ... don't think it was a 1 ton...1983 109 series 3 RHD snip... I didnt realise there was a difference, i thought all hi-caps were 1 ton Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA 508-373-1788 (W) 508-521-4093 (H) 508-521-1380 (FAX) ===--===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===--=== 1969 IIA SWB - The Wayback Machine Now with most of the Federally requred electrics! Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From Russell Burns Mon Feb 13 13:47:02 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 13:47:02 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. First, I take exception an being called an idiot (as polite as your slam was), I am only half crazy, the other half just isn't there. As for the techical competence of D-90 owners, at least we have to remove the drain plugs to refresh the fluids. The older models you just fill them up daily. While I will admit that there is no justfication for spending 30K on a truck, The D-90 is the most functional, and off road capable truck available to day. I could not use a series truck to commute 100 miles a day. A series truck would not pull my camper (low range ok, I just couldn't get anywhere). If I had to drive 55 mph thru Nebraska, I would never make it to the Rockys. I will admit if I had a choice between driving a D-90, and a series Rover on an off road excursion, I would choose the series one. This is only because I enjoy experiencing the challenge an older technolgy provides. I still dig ditches by hand, use an axe, and a saw, instead of a chain saw. I think somethings need to be experienced. I am not envious of the series trucks, I am envious of the lifestyle they represent. If I could take 8 weeks to make a trip west, I would enjoy rebuilding the transfer case along side of the road. I fear breaking down in Detroit. I cannot see owning a series truck, only to traverse the same mud hole every weekend. A rover is made to get somewhere, In 10 years, we should see whose Rover made it more places. If I could change my lifestyle I could get there in a series Rover. But until I can make that change, the D-90 is a better truck. As for driving thru a spot of mud next summer, I will make every attempt to attend your event. If nothing else I should make a good winch anchor. Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-Rover > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Mike Fredette wrote: none [ truncated by lro-digester (was 76 lines)] > your 90. None of the 90 owners I've ever met would dream > of bringing them on a mud run. You would be refreshing... From S|ren Vels Christensen Mon Feb 13 22:58:08 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:58:08 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Signs of the Times On Sun, 12 Feb 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > To S|ren Vels Christensen..... NICE SIGN! Love it... I'll see if I can print > it on Monday at work.. It's nice that at least one on this list could decode with success. Others couldn't, so i'm working to find a solution. Please be patient for a couple af days. > Cheers > Mike [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > P.S. Is it Soren or Siren or S|ren?? Your name comes across the third way on > my mailer... None of the above actually. IBM, DEC, AT&T and DARPA were not aware of the existence of Scandinavia. The o in Soren is an o with a / over it. Much like the diameter symbol. The host that i pay a lot of money to access converts it to the pipe character. When i was in Longview, WA in '82 i tried to make people pronounce my name right but they kept saying Soren. At the time there was a quarterback at Seattle Seahawks called Zorn. I was an interesting person ;-) later sv/aurens From berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Mon Feb 13 17:17:46 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:17:46 -0500 From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... Dixon Kenner writes: >On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: >> DON'T DO IT! Hubs are a damned invention of the domestic crowd... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Matter of debate really... I keep them locked driving about town, > but it helps if you can unlock them for the highway... I'm with Dixon here. I used to run unlocked most of the time, just going into a maintainece lock every Wednesday. For everyday use I leave them locked,lubeing, and ready for instant action when I feel compelled to park ON the snow pile left by the plow in the train station lot. ("What do you mean there are no spaces left? What about that one over there?!?") If I'm headed on a long trip I usually remember to unlock them during my first gas stop. No real mileage difference, but she seems to handle a bit better with the front end free. I can't address them from a "serious" off-road perspective since I only venture off road if there's a specific destination, like a trout stream, at the other end of the trail. However before I started my restoration most people I spoke to said that they were desireable as long as you locked them up for a short trip once a week or so to keep them lubricated. For the record, I have the Warn hubs. >> Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or if you >> want the ORIGINAL cruise control (long before Detroit), get one of the old LR [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of > these... I don't have a hand throttle, I guess I'll have to settle for the old brick on the pedal method... Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Mon Feb 13 14:28:24 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 14:28:24 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Genesis redux Reports opf the Disco kil;ling the Defender may be premature to say the least -- I was reading while in the Garden of England that Defender sales are up strongly. Cheers John Brabyn From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:34 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: EFI warning light on RR >I have a 1988 Range Rover and the EFI light has come on. My experience with >other vehicles usually points to bad oxygen sensor, but I just don't know on >this one. Also do the power seats have anytype of manual override. My >passenger seat will go up, but not back. Any help would be appreciated. What the EFI warning light usually means is "Keep your hands off and see a specialized workshop ASAP". Unless you have the appropriate EFI supplement of the original Workshop Manual (not the Haynes fairy book) and a host of electronic measuring tools plus the knowledge to use them, there's not much you can do with the EFI except screw it up good. As for the seat - sorry, no way out here, either. You'll have to have it fixed or throw it out for a 'normal' manually adjustable seat. Sorry if this was disconcerting... (Malfunctioning passenger power seat plus EFi faults - could be related, maybe a humidity problem. Did you do any deep water wading latey, or perhaps had some flooding in your area?) Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:49 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Zenith vs. Weber - take 349 Richard Strysniewicz quizzed >On a related note, anyone care to comment on the relative merits of Zenith >vs. Weber cabs for the 2.25? I have a Turner performance head but otherwise >stock engine. I'm not lacking for power right now but would like an increase >in fuel economy (wouldn't everyone?) Would a Zenith be any more economical >than the Weber? Usually the opposite is true, the improved economy being the main - perhaps only - advantage of the Weber over the Zenith/Solex lumps. On the other hand a new or reconditioned Zenith can well be a lot more economical than an old buggered-up Weber. The Weber gets its economy at the expense of high-end power (not so noticeable if you have an overdrive). In Europe, the Weber is the LR carb of choice because of the forbidding price of petrol. In the States, it would be pointless to throw out a Zenith or Solex for a Weber (I'm talking of the single-barrel version here, remember). What really boosts economy more than any carb conversion could is a 'Lumenition' ignition control ... but that's another story. Cheers, Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:42 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: fuel + cost + rebuild Harald the Viking has a thirsty friend... > The V8 of my RR'79 is a very thirsty friend to have, so... ... snip > standard -> electronic injection, or I know the performance and economy of the EFI makes the mouths of owners of older carbed V8s water... but, a conversion from carburetted to electronic fuel injection just doesn't figure economically, whichever way you look at it. Here's just a list of the items that *must* be replaced totally when doing such a conversion: Cylinder heads, exaust manifolds, all exaust pipes, fuel tank, fuel pump, all fuel supply linings, air filter. Additionally you will have to buy the ECU, air flow sensor, injectors, injector control wire harness, ram air housing, special fuel filter,plus a host of minor electronic devices, sensors, relays. We're talking here about costs in the area of $ 4K. For the same price you can get a complete reconditioned EFi engine. To recuperate these costs in terms of improved milage, you'd have to circle the equator 5 times before it starts to pay off. Converting from old V8 to TDi can make sense economically, at least in Europe, provided you intend to drive your beast for at least another 10 years, because the adapter kit plus a TDi engine (new) will set you back by a good $ 10K. Used TDi's are hard to find, except if someone totals his Discovery right in front of you and you quickly go and make a deal with him while he's on the stretcher and still conscious (just being morbid...) BTW, will you be at the meet in Lillehammer in August? Have fun, Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 13 95 Feb EST 1917 Date: 13 Feb 95 17:31:55 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. C. Taylor Sutherland, III speaketh: >anybody who has stuck a 6-cyl in theirs, speak up and let me know if it worked A S.III 109 6-cyl. *chassis* is a good choice because it has much stronger brakes than the regular 4-cyl, and a larger (deeper & longer) engine bay which predestines it for any kind of engine conversion you may dream up, including V8. *But*, the straight-six banger engine - forget it. It is a pristine historical piece of machinery which might well be the pride of any motor museum, especially if it is still running, but is has become totally obsolete with the advent of the first V8. The 6-cyl hasn't got nearly the power of a V8 - even an old one - and is at the same time *much* more thirsty, an A-class guzzler. To keep it running properly and within the limits of emission regulations is a full-time job even for an experienced mechanic. Spares are difficult to find and ex$pensive. I know what I'm talking about, I owned one (kept the car but chucked the 6-cyl), and even helped a poor sucker who insisted inspite of my warnings to rebuild one. He runs it at around 23-26 liters/100 km (I told him so...) Don't even go near one. If you have one, donate it to the Smithsonian Institute, care of the Dinosaurs dept. Stefan From Dixon Kenner Mon Feb 13 17:36:10 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:36:10 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 88 IIa and III owners' opinions wanted. On Mon, 13 Feb 1995, Russell Burns wrote: > First, I take exception an being called an idiot Never called you an idiot, I'm just responding to Mike's little love note addressed to me. Nor am I brushing all D90 owners, just a bunch of them & I described the type I meant. Whether you see yourself in that profile is entirely another matter. I don't know if you fit it at all, though you seem to think so, though the rest of your message doesn't indicate it. > I am only half crazy, the other half just isn't there. As for the techical > competence of D-90 owners, at least we have to remove the drain plugs > to refresh the fluids. The older models you just fill them up daily. Not quite daily actually, just depends what you have been up to. That you are hal f crazy is actually a plus as far as I am concerned. Never really liked these concours types that would buy a brand new vehicle and drive it to a car show to put in a concours against older vehicles in a general class. Somehow seems a bit unfair, though enlightening in other ways. > While I will admit that there is no justfication for spending 30K on > a truck, There can be plenty of justification. All depends on what it is going to be used for. Getting the kids at school, groceries, the country club, and the regular car wash isn't worth $30k. Doing some work is. You bring up a lot of good reasons to why you have a 90. A lot of other 90 owners wouldn't have a clue how to answer the question, just huff & puff a lot. > As for driving thru a spot of mud next summer, I will make every attempt > to attend your event. If nothing else I should make a good winch anchor. You are welcome to come if you wish. I would actually be very interested to see a D90 offroad. In some respects they seem to be rather impressive. I do like the idea of disc brakes. You will find we are not a bunch of philistines, but do have our fair share of "unique" people. Rgds, PS. As per Detroit, I wouldn't want to break down their either... From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Mon Feb 13 17:49:32 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 17:49:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Rovers in Movies Hi, all, I just saw 4weddings and a funeral this weekend, and I was wondering if the landrover (looked like a III88)shown throughout the movie was a bugeye? If this has already been covered in the various RoverMovie mailings, I apologize for the wasted bandwidth. thnx happyrovering stv swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Mon Feb 13 15:41:41 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 15:41:41 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: New Range Rover... preview, and more. Sounds like a good bash! I've seen a few of the new RRs in England on my recent trip, and read a couple of reviews focussing on off-road performance, which seems to be universally acclaimed as stupendous and effortless. In the latest issue of Automobile magazine they compare a number of 95 sport utilities, and are quite fanatic in their praise of the RR's off-road capabilities compared to anything else out there. Of course, the rest of us should retain a degree of healthy scepticism, secure in the knowledge that our older models are better.... If only the thing didn't look like a homogenized Ford Explorer! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From "Mugele, Gerry" Mon Feb 13 16:17:00 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:17:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Living in B.C. Hi Kyle, Beautiful country you inhabit. I've spent some time with my 88 wandering the logging road up there myself. Well not at Armstong but down around Keremeos and Princeton area, followed the Ashnola River up to the Glacier Lakes. Absolutely glorious. (My wife was raised in Keremeos.) And there certainly are bunches of elderly L-R. Many Series Is long abandoned awaiting the chance to become a parts car. My Brother-in-law made a point of locating about a dozen IAAs, some could be started but none being used regularly. And how can I get you to send me a few dozen (or a gross) bottles of Okanogan Spring Ale. As far as I know the only place it's available is in the Okanogan region and around Kamloops (or is Kamloops still considered to be Okanogan?). Love that stuff. 8^) Gerry 72 88 From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Feb 13 19:29:17 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:29:17 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: ruckus Oh my, are we fighting again??? Any of you boys married?? rd/nigel From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Mon Feb 13 16:30:15 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 16:30:15 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: EFI warning light on RR The EFI warning light could signal a lot of things -- if you have the patience and the and the workshop manual, you can check the ECU out yourself with a multimeter. I've done it, but it's tedious. Once mine came on after runnuing really low on gas. Another time it came on after I suffocated the engine by putting my hand over the air intake causing it to die. In both cases the fault cleared itself when the ECU was disconnected and reconnected. If you suspect the oxygen sensor, there's a specific multimeter test for that in the workshop manual. It's also quite possible there's absolutely nothing wrong, but you should get it checked out by the dealer or do it yourself as above. Re the power seats, the problem is almost certainly the control switch, which is easy to replace but costs about $99. They get dirt etc in them and often act up. You can try taking the switch apart and squirting in contact cleaner -- I've done this on one of mine with satisfactory results. I hear the seat controls are ripped off from Mercedes, so you could try for replacements there too but I doubt if they'd be any cheaper! Hope this is helpful -- Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Bill Caloccia Tue Feb 14 00:48:58 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 00:48:58 GMT From: Bill Caloccia Subject: Re: Signs of the Times Actually I had no problems decoding it, but there are a lot of newbies (to computers) on the list who had no clue it was a uuencoded jpeg file... I managed to save & re-assemble it and decode and view it w/o leaving my Macintosh... I'll be glad to put a copy up on the mail server, and the best thing would also be to put it up on the WWW and ftp servers. I don't think it is a good idea to re-send it through the mail, as it is much too big... --- Since I'm writing I'll throw in my 2 cents.. I think the concept is neat, but the colors and shape are too close to the camel logos... if someone were going to do a print-run, I wouldn't want anything printed with 'team.net' and a land-rover logo on it... I'll get a copy of the auto crosser's team.net logo just for fun and encode it. From William Caloccia Mon Feb 13 19:57:12 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 19:57:12 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: the Seri(ou)s Wars All right, dixon and russel, I know you've probably both been feeling trapped in the house after a couple weeks of -10 to -20C frozen weather, and the muck in Dixon's transfer case won't even start to drip again until he fires up the kerosene heater in the barn or snow melts first, but face it, you both are just another f**** LR owner (or maybe LR anorak !), so grab a nice room temperature Newkie (a bitter, not the dog) and and go chill out in a nearby snowbank EH ? Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Mon Feb 13 18:01:05 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 95 18:01:05 PST From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: Series IIa or III? The Question; > So which one would you prefer? The IIa or the III? I kinda like what the III > has to offer, but I'd be willing to listen to any arguments. You can't cook your trout on a Series III grill! Gord. From S|ren Vels Christensen Tue Feb 14 03:24:49 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:24:49 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: re-deSigns of the Times On Tue, 14 Feb 1995, Bill Caloccia wrote: > Actually I had no problems decoding it, but there are a lot of newbies (to > computers) on the list who had no clue it was a uuencoded jpeg file... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] > I'll get a copy of the auto crosser's team.net logo just for fun and > encode it. You're right. Copyrigths and all that. As for camel. The shape is closer to Monte Carlo Rally than to Camel. I think it lands somewhere in the middle. Mille Miglia is closer to Camel than anything except for the red colour. You are of course right about the logo. It can easily be replaced. I'll work on it. And i won't post it directly! I have caused enough trouble already. rgds, Soren velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Mon Feb 13 22:28:51 1995 Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 22:28:51 -0500 From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: 107 wagon turn signals On December 30, Randy Rose said: >Thanks to those who told me about 107 station wagon stuff. As my 107 came >without rear lamps and no wiring harness, I wanted to what the original set [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >manual. If anyone had a drawing of the optional series I turn signal >set up, suitable for 1957, let me know. I'd sure like a copy. Sorry to be so long about answering this, but if you still need the drawings, Randy, I can send you copies of the pages from the Series I parts book, owner's instruction manual (choice of English, French, German, Spanish, or Portuguese for those who have never seen a Series I owner's book), and the workshop manual that deal with flashing indicators. Some of those pages also talk about the trafficators. So Randy, if you still need the drawings, send me your snail mail address. If more people express interest, I might be able to scan them into gifs or jpegs and put them on a machine where they can be retrieved by ftp. The reason I'm so long in responding is that I spent 4 weeks in the Miami Beach, Miami area because my mother was hospitalized. I saw lots of Range Rovers (all sparkling clean), but also had a D90 turn a corner around me as I was waiting to cross a street. Aren't there rules against Land Rovers being so quiet? I also saw a D110 several times. The last time I saw it, it was being parked in front of the hospital as I was leaving. It belongs to a doctor - first name Raoul - who didn't have much time to talk as he was rushing inside because his sister was going into labor. He was surprised when I told him about my 107 because he thought he knew of every LR in southern Florida. He seemed to have quite an array of anti-theft devices on the vehicle. (In my Series I owner's instruction manual, under locking the vehicle, it says "To protect the vehicle against theft, the ignition key should always be removed when parking. As an additional precaution, the distributor rotor may be removed or the petrol tap on the sediment bowl turned "off". When private locks and window catches are fitted, these should be secured when the vehicle is left unattended." I did pocket the rotor and screw in the fuel shutoff tap when I had to park it on the street in Mexico and Guatemala. Steve Margolis 1957 107 Station Wagon, Series I, Still in kit form in Maine (Damn!) serial number 13470093 engine number 114707468 From taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Tue Feb 14 01:38:47 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 01:38:47 From: taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu (C. Taylor Sutherland, III) Subject: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive Am I going to get ka-chunka-chunka-chunka every time I shift in a fairly well put together series IIa 88"? I hope the tranny is better than that. Anybody know what I'm talking about? And no, I DO know how to drive a stick AND double clutch. :-) Taylor...you know, the guy desperately trying to join I-bought-a-land-rover- see-me-love-me group... -- One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor, where the Shadows lie. <-> C. Taylor Sutherland, III <-> taylors@hubcap.clemson.edu <-> <-> <-> IRC Nick: NIV <-> taylors@gamma.phys.clemson.edu <-> From Sekerere@aol.com Tue Feb 14 01:49:57 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 01:49:57 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Importing Land Rover from SA Haven't heard any response from you or the person that you directed me to call in South Africa regarding obtaining and importing (exporting from SA) a pre 1968 Land Rover. I am not sure if my messages are getting through. Would appreciate any help you can give me as we need to do some sorting out before we go to SA in early June, and need to get paperwork done on this end if it is necessary. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers Chris Whitehead From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 14 02:15:33 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 02:15:33 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: prospective new lr owner... On 13 feb. Dixon wrote... > On Mon, 13 Feb 1995 Sanna@aol.com wrote: > > Its got cruise! You just jam your foot to the floor and leave it. Or [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > I have yet to see a IIA sold in the NADA that didn't have one of > these... Oh, Darn! My '71 IIa doesn't have a hand throttle.... The other '71 IIa (now a pile of parts) didn't have one either... Shucks! Cheers Mike From "T.F. Mills" Tue Feb 14 00:41:32 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 00:41:32 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: US Camel Trials report You read it here first (I think), and USA Today will give coverage on or about 15 Feb. Rocky Rover Roy and I witnessed the US Camel Trophy Trials in Colorado. Roy's fun meter broke and he doesn't care; he's ready to die now. Myself, I caught a few winks in my flooded tent while the contestants were slugging it out all through a night of mud and snow, so I'm still willing to live for another experience. We both plan to write articles as time and inspiration permit, and possibly give you all a preview. In the meantime, I don't think it will spoil anything to give y'all a quick glimpse of From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Feb 14 03:04:51 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:04:51 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Genuine Clunk-o-matic Drive Taylor wonders..... > well put together series IIa 88"? NOPE.... > I hope the tranny is better than that. YUP.... > Anybody know what I'm talking about? Haven't a clue, actually.. What in blue blazes *are* you talking about?? Where did you get all these silly notions?? Who has been filling up your head with all this muck and lies??? A "fairly well put together ser IIA" should shift fairly well. If, however, you wind up with something beat up like my SerIII, it *will* go klunk and grind and knash. Even so, I got six years out of it before the tranny went crunch and locked up. And in that six years I did all sorts of on and off road driving, parked the truck in mud past the bumper and at car shows next to shiny Jags, moved farm implements with it, extracted a few stuck Toyota's and Nissans (and reminded them it was a Land Rover that got them out) and generally had a lot of fun with it. So... what *are* you worried about??? From "T.F. Mills" Tue Feb 14 03:43:34 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 1995 03:43:34 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: mystery Rovers those surplus, crated Rovers of suspicious origin: I have just learned that a Denver dealer who knows next to nothing about Rovers has bought 50 of them, and they are being shipped by train from Canada (Toronto, I think). The dealer does not wish to be identified. He may have acquired an albatross. I'll let you know if and when I hear more. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA http://mercury.cair.du.edu/~tomills (under construction) From Steve Methley Tue Feb 14 10:55:59 1995 Date: Tue, 14 Feb 95 10:55:59 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: RR mpg: new vs old Stefan R. Jacob suggests: >I know the performance and economy of the EFI makes the mouths of owners >of older carbed V8s water... Actually, no it doesn't. The big heavy 4 door EFI's are lucky to get 18mpg, worse for > 3.5 engines. My light little 2-dr (;-)) gets 20mpg+ on Stombergs. A lot of people over here in UK know that. You onl