From Alan Smedley Thu Nov 30 19:43:03 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 19:43:03 -1000 From: Alan Smedley Subject: Re: Messages to LRO-Digest Can someone enlighten me as to the "accepted" protocol with replying and commenting to messages on the LRO Digest. I have recieved some comments and/or answers to items directly from others and I have had some replies which have been posted to the LRO Digest. I would have thought the purpose of the digest was to "Share" information not just to get started with what becomes direct messaging to a limited few. Where the subject matter of of mutual interest I would be inclined to reply to both the LRO Digest and the person sending the message directly. Is this the accepted method? :-) Alan Smedley (-: :-) Plymoth Blue '92 Range Rover (-: From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Thu Nov 30 10:40:30 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:40:30 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Re: Dutch 4wd magazines >On Tue, 21 Nov 1995, Roy Wassili wrote: >> Have you received the mags yet? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Magazines just arrived. Have sent off the latest newsletter for > your purusal... Dixon, Just received the newsletter. I'll enjoy reading it! Regards, Roy LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From LTC Larry Smith Thu Nov 30 7:42:08 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 7:42:08 EST (1242Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: O/D noise: Could I have a loose shaft nut? Alan, I just went through something similar with my '72 88 petrol. Thought I was going to end up replacing the whole overdrive unit. Finally got around to pulling everything down the Sunday before Thanksgiving (US). When the overdrive is installed, the maingear on the end of the transmission is removed and a sleeve clutch is installed. This has roller bearings that support the end of the overdrive input shaft and teeth that mesh with the input also. The only time this assy gets lubed is with bearing grease on assembly. My setup had completely dried up, the sleeve clutch teeth "rolled over" and the bearings scored. Ordered a sleeve and bearing service kit from RN along with the gasket (Xmsn to OD). Be sure to use high temp bearing grease (like for servicing wheel bearings on disc brake vehicles) on reassembly. I plan on checking and regreasing every 10,000 miles from now on. 'til later, Larry From "barnett childress" Thu Nov 30 8:45:35 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 8:45:35 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello to all, I have been reading for a couple of months now and feel like jumping in so here goes. I bought a new 1995 D90 from LRMW in Natick MA. back in May. It took me over a year to save, scrimp and sell a few things to get up the money for a good down payment. Driving off of the dealers lot I was still wondering if I had made a wise choice or a huge mistake! First let me say that I have owned my share of 4WD's. Suzuki Samuri, Mitsubishi Montero, Toyota Pickup. I have off-roaded with all of them and they we also my daily driver, 70 miles a day on the highway. None of these 4WD's were great at off-roading for different reasons, lack of power, wimpy gearing, etc. Nor were they comfortable daily drivers. After owning my D90 for six months, driving it every day and doing some serious off roading almost every weekend I know I made the right choice. The Land Rover is by far the finest, most rugged, best built 4WD you can get your hands on, period! I guess by now you can tell I'm happy with my purchase and have had only a few minor problems, none mechanical. Here are the the additions that I've made to my D90 so far: 1) Superwinch Husky8 winch/heavy duty bumper as used on the Camel Trophy D110's. The solenoids and remote connector have been relocated under the driver seat. This keeps out water, mud, salt etc. 2) ARB/Old Man Emu Heavy Duty suspension. After installing the winch/bumper combo my front end dropped about 1.5" and I could feel the difference in handling due to the extra weight. Going to LR heavy duty front springs and gas shocks was an option, but the OME suspension was the same price. It also gave me the steering stabilizer, 1.5" lift, and approx. 3" of extra wheel travel. The new ride is smoother and more controlled. 3) ARB Air Lockers front and rear. The D90 goes just about anywhere stock, but with the air lockers you can climb those STEEP hills that are to rough to use any momentum. In lo range, second gear you can climb just about anything and never spin a tire. I do a lot of rock crawling and the lockers are great when you keep lifting wheels off of the ground. I also prefer the option of locking and unlocking the diff's as I choose. Back on the road you have regular open diff's. A great advantage, no extra wear and tear on tires, and gas mileage is unaffected. The next things I want to do is to add the full rear safari cage and full soft top. This brings me to the questions I would like to ask: 1) I would like some opinions on rear seats. I am not to thrilled with the dealer rear seat. No easy access and huge brackets bolted to the floor when removed. How are the LR inward facing jump seats? Access looks better and they would fold up and out of the way with out removal. Are they fairly comfortable. I rarely carry passengers and would use these seats more for family trail rides. 2) Anyone have any solutions for carying a hi-lift jack, shovel, etc. securely? I am thinking of fabricating a rack that would bolt onto the spare tire carrier and could be removed. I don't like the idea of a roof rack. Sorry for the long winded post and thanks in advance for any info, Barnett Childress. EMAIL Barnett Childress@EMC@eng@hop1.com 1995 D90 still unnamed. P.S. I wave and pull over! From "Tom Rowe" Thu Nov 30 08:17:52 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:17:52 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Messages to LRO-Digest Alan Smedley asks: > Can someone enlighten me as to the "accepted" protocol with replying and commenting to messages on the LRO Digest. I have recieved some comments and/or answers to items directly from others and I have had some replies which have been posted to the LRO Digest. I would have thought the purpose of the digest was to "Share" information not just to get started with what becomes direct messaging to a limited few. Where the subject matter of of mutual interest I would be inclined to reply to both the LRO Digest and the > person sending the message directly. Is this the accepted method? FWIW I try to use replies to the list only for things that I think will be of general interest to the list (yeh, people, I know I fail in that sometimes). I also try to include only that portion of the original message that is relevant, for two reasons; one, to save bandwidth and help out people that have to pay to download their mail, and two, because the Major truncates messages if there are too many comment marks. I usually indicate when I've deleted a part, "snip". PLEASE only reply to the list or the person, not both. They obviously will see your reply when it's distributed and double replies clutter the mailboxes of those of us who get a lot of mail. The exception would be, in my opinion, when the person requesting info is a digest subscriber and wants the info soonest, but you think it will benefit the list also. Well, those are my own personal guidelines. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Jonathan Seely Thu Nov 30 07:09:10 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 07:09:10 -0800 From: Jonathan Seely Subject: Defender 110 sunroof leak This probably isn't a real big problem but it has me stumped. I have a '93 North Americam Spec. Defender 110, it's great for my uses. However recently I have had problems with the very simple LR sunroof - it leaks like a sieve. Rovers North in Vermont (they installed the unit originally) has replaced the glass panel once but the leaks continue. The water SEEMS to be coming in through the rubber seal around the glass panel and not between the rubber gasket of the frame and the glass unit. I have taken out the headliner just to make sure there are no other leaks in the roof or windscreen but have not found any. Rovers North hinted that there are problems with the sunroof unit in general but would not commit to it. Has anyone else had this problem with original Land Rover sunroofs and is there a solution? I don't mind a few drips - afterall it is a Land Rover but now it's puddles Thanks for any response. Jonathan Seely jseely@ix.netcom.com From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Nov 30 10:44:28 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:44:28 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Leaky 110 Jonathon Seely writes "This probably isn't a real big problem but it has me stumped. I have a '93 North Americam Spec. Defender 110, it's great for my uses. However recently I have had problems with the very simple LR sunroof - it leaks like a sieve." Jeez if I were you, I would sell it. Since I live in AZ where it *almost* never rains and work out of the house (therefore not exposing it to harmful UV rays), I would be happy to take it off your hands if and only if I receive a substantial discount for the leaky sunroof. Gerry "Love my Discovery but always on the lookout for a bargain" Elam Phoenix... high today: 78 degrees From LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Thu Nov 30 10:02 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 10:02 CST From: LeCompteDW@silver-po.biz.uiowa.edu Subject: D90 - Hardtop Report anyone? Living in the blowing and drifting snow of Iowa, is there anyone who has made the $2k investment in a hardtop for their Defender 90? Is it worth it? David "Snow Down My Neck" LeCompte '95 Defender 90 Waterloo, Iowa From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 30 95 Nov EST 1911 Date: 30 Nov 95 11:09:49 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Distributors and advancing senility.... Mine, that is...8*) While installing a new electronic ignition system in my Rover yesterday I took the time to clean, grease and otherwise spiff up my distributor. In doing so (and preparing a backup points baseplate for emergencies) I ran across an anomaly I would like an opinion on. The shaft and weights in my present distributor were marked "10 Degrees". This I can understand - means it's designed to give that much advance at full vacuum. However, the distributor I robbed the plate out of for the electronics unit has its shaft and weights marked "21 DEGREES" !?!?!?!?!?! The parts distributor was off a Series IIa. The one I'm driving on right now is ex-MG. Dumb question: is 21 degrees of advance right, and should I swap the shaft and such? Does it matter? Am I being excessively anal-retentive? Are any of you still awake? aj"Confused as usual"r From David Rosenbaum Thu Nov 30 08:43:18 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:43:18 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: D90 Hi-lift jack stowage Dear Barnett, Your D90 sounds great! I have the stock option rear seat and agree that you have to be nimble to get into and out of it with the full soft top on (when it's off, you can climb over sides or back). It is very easy to fold up or remove, although the floor brackets stay in place. Others have posted messages about inward facing rear seats...one of the downsides of them is somewhat limited view for passengers on long rides. (Rear seat for old Scouts (model 800) were forward facing and bolted to the wheelwell rather than the floor of the rear- I dont know if such a seat would properly fit in the back of a D90, but I could check on the dimensions and let you know....others have written about rear jeep seats. The Scout seat is heavy and doesn't fold, so it would have to be in or out). I still haven't come up with an external mount for my hi-lift jack. The jack fits very snugly from front to back along the right side of the rear floor and the stock option rear seat keeps it from moving at all. But for this to work, the footplate of the jack has to be as-is (if you have enlarged it by adding a piece of wood [so that it doesn't sink into soft track]) the jack won't fit under the seat. Best wishes, David '94 D90 From Roger Sinasohn Thu Nov 30 08:53:13 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 08:53:13 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Front license plates Shortly after I bought my 109", I arranged for custom plates (INDY 1). I swapped the rear one right away. Got around to the front on a trip east (I think it was in Nevada that I finally took the old one off the front), but didn't bother putting the custom plate on the front. It sits in the kitchen on the window sill. (One of these days, I'll move it to the miniature collection shelves.) In 5 years, never been stopped for anything in the Land Rover, let alone missing front plates. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Thu Nov 30 16:57:58 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 95 16:57:58 GMT From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: Fuel injection Hi, a few days ago somebody asked about carbs for a 3.5l engine as the efi was removed for a 3.9. This sounds like a really bad idea to me. I don't know if the 3.9 takes a different efi unit (they will probably all fit all engines), but even if it was the same physical unit the mappings would be very different. The time spent on a rolling road to retune the efi brain would far outweigh the cost of sourcing a 3.9 efi unit, assuming you knew how. My suggestion is do the guy with the 3.9 a favour and take the efi unit off his hands. But what do I know?? Steve From "John B. Friedman" Sat Nov 30 11:07:15 1996 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 96 11:07:15 -0600 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: UK 2 carb v/8 owners--FS carb synch tool & Man pages Hello in England. I have a wonderful tool from my 60's MG and Series days for sale, a synchronizer for twin carb set ups, but as I have EFI on my Disco I can no longer use it. This tool is a glass tube with a float and mounted on a rubber gasketed metal base. You set the float to zero and then check the vacuum of first one carb and then the other to get the same degree of vacuum. Good for SU, Solex, Weber &c. I will take 25 pounds for it in English notes if you can find a way to get them here safely and mail it surface for that. Good used 60's condition. I also have all the MPI and TDI looseleaf man pages from the big factory Disco workshop manual for sale, 20.US postpaid.John Friedman From russ burns Thu Nov 30 10:20:01 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:20:01 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: D90 Hi-lift jack stowage If you have the stock bumper and no brush bar, the Hi-lift jack will bolt onto the bumper using the holes for the brush bar. I use a little foam to keep the Hi-lift from scratching things. Russ Burns >I still haven't come up with an external mount for my hi-lift jack. The >jack fits very snugly from front to back along the right side of the rear [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >David >'94 D90 Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Nov 30 10:26:30 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 10:26:30 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Santana Trivia Some of the Santana full-length hardtops had curved back corners, with curved corner windows, even though the rear corners of the lower body were still square. The curved corner windows look to me as though they are the same ones used on the pickup cab tops on British Land-Rovers. Some Santanas had one-piece, segmented, multi-function red/amber taillamps. The militar lightweight models (made in long wheelbase too) had square-cut front wings, like the British ones, sort of, but with the wing tops up at the same height as normal rounded Land-Rover wings. The bonnet was the same curved one as on civilian Land-Rovers. The headlamps were in the fronts of the wings but were very small diameter and recessed (but still round). I seem to recall that Santana also may have done some rectangular headlamps on bonneted-control models, as well as on that nifty FC model that another netter mentioned. Some of the late-model Santanas had a type of wheel that I'd love to get my hands on. They looked like normal Series Land-Rover wheels but were slotted (fairly large round slots as I recall). Seems to me that there were about six or seven slots (another trivia question). Wish Land-Rover would have standardized that wheel (in deep off-set 6.5" width, of course). Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From Dixon Kenner Thu Nov 30 14:20:58 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:20:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Front license plates On Thu, 30 Nov 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > In 5 years, never been stopped for anything in the Land > Rover, let alone missing front plates. Before the 109 was safetied, I'd gone by the Quebec MoT and picked up a fist full of temporary plates (about the size of a credit card chit, flimsy paper, good for 3 days, cheap) In theory, you are supposed to put these in the back window. Since I was in wallpaper mode (gather evidence to ram the 109 through the safety despite its fitness (it did pass BTW, whether it deserved to is another matter we won't discuss)) I didn't bother to use any of these. I just threw then under the seat, in the back, generally where ever they landed. I just drove the 109 on its 1974 plates. One day while getting in the 109 (backed into a parking spot so you only saw the front end) an RCMP crusier stopped in front of me. I watched him play with his little computer and then roll the window down. He shouted to me that my plates had expired in 1974 (this was 1992). I shouted back I knew that. He looked a bit dumbfounded and then rolled up his window and drove away... :-) Guess he figured this was going to take too much time and he was going on break... From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Thu Nov 30 12:25:47 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 12:25:47 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: compressed air source Has anyone had any success using an overpressurized spare tire as a reservoir, suitable for getting tires up to passable road pressure after an offroad trip? I generally only need enough air to go from 22 psi to 28 psi in four tires. I wouldn't think that would take much, but I find that if I inflate my spare to 50 psi, that's barely enough to pressurize the air hose to 30 psi. I'm tempted to take the spare up to 70 psi or more. The tire tells me maximum pressure under heavy load, but of course not maximum pressure under no load. -Matt From "Tom Rowe" Thu Nov 30 14:25:03 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:25:03 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Santana Trivia Granville B. Pool writes: Snip > seem to recall that Santana also may have done some rectangular headlamps on > bonneted-control models, as well as on that nifty FC model that another > netter mentioned. Snip Yes, they did have the rectangular headlamps. Way back, Al Tocci at DAP offered rectangular conversion kits for British built Land Rovers. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From a-robw@microsoft.com Thu Nov 30 13:47:17 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 13:47:17 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: compressed air source >Has anyone had any success using an overpressurized spare tire as a >reservoir, suitable for getting tires up to passable road pressure after an >offroad trip? (small snip) >I'm tempted to take the spare up to 70 psi or more. The tire >tells me maximum pressure under heavy load, but of course not maximum >pressure under no load. Some time ago I answered the "Isuzu" challenge and the two Isuzu drivers both did this (i.e. spare to 70 PSI) with the caution that this not be done with an old tire (one of them had suffered a spare-tire explosion). I would be careful in the desert as well. Hoever, both drivers said it was good enough to take the tires from 20 to 25 psi. After that it was time for the compressor. At least 25 PSI should get you to the first service station without much trouble. In my case, I have a little (I mean TINY) [auto] battery powered compressor that will take the tires from 25 PSI to 30 PSI in about 5 min/tire. So between the two methods you could do OK.. From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 01 09:33:00 1995 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 95 09:33:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: compressed air source I wouldn't be keen to inflate a tire to 70psi. Particularly if the tire is sitting in the hot sun on the back of a Disco or in the rear of RR. There have been stories here in Oz of 'over inflated' tires in the rear RR's exploding and they can do an awful lot of damage. Not the sort of thing you need in the middle of Simpson desert where you are two days drive in the dry, from civilisation (if you can call Birdsville civilised) and a doctor!! - assuming you can still drive the thing. I would invest in small hand or foot pump. Cheap and safe and it'll keep you fit as well!! Or there are plenty of electric and engine driven compressors around these days. Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (under restoration) ---------- From Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Thu Nov 30 14:56:26 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:56:26 -0800 (PST) From: Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Subject: 5 Door 109 Safari For Sale in Vancouver, B.C. (Canada) '69 SIIa 5dr SW, Ford 289 conversion. Rear part of frame needs some work. Brakes, Clutch hydrolics need replacing. Rear springs sagging a bit. Needs exhast , muffler. Rear door frames and Firewall also have some rust. Electrics seem good. Needs a good cleaning as it has been sitting a while. I went and looked at this LRover last week. Needs a little more work than I'm able to do, but would make a good project for someone that can weld. The seller is asking $1500 which seems to me like a good price. He needs the cash for a deisel conversion he's doing on anouther 109. For $2000 of repairs you could have a nice truck. He also has a 24 Volt Warn #8000 winch and fairlead for sale for C$350. His ( Marko ) phone number is 604-731-2980 EMail at mstefano@netinfo.ubc.ca From a-robw@microsoft.com Thu Nov 30 14:58:22 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 14:58:22 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: HiLift in a Disco...Where? I finally bought a hi-lift jack for the Disco (I'm too cheap/broke to buy the whole winch so I'm doing this piecemeal :-) and for now, I've been just tossing it in the back, just inside the door. It won't fit betwen the fenderwells in the back without taking off the top "eye", but that's an option, I suppose. Since it's very heavy, especially if it should become airborne, I'd like to secure it to the vehicle, preferably inside, so I was wondering where some other Disco drivers have stashed theirs? (OBTW, I don't have an "expedition rack"...yet) Some ideas I've had so far: -- just below the rear seat, secured on the floor in front of the seat (easy to reach, but the rear passengers may object) -- remove or rotate the top "eye" so that it fits behind the rear seat (secure but hard to reach when needed) -- secure in the back of the cargo area where I've just been laying it for now. P.S. to the Disco (or other) owners that don't have one, they are really neat! I put a shakle adapter in the receiver hitch and used it to jack the back of the Disco up, and the Hi-lift was up about 3-feet before the rear wheel's got off the ground. You can really see the "spring" travel that way!! The bad news is there isn't much of a place to jack the front. Don't even try jacking the OEM brush bar (barf!) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Thu Nov 30 18:05:49 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 18:05:49 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Water, water everywhere... Who designed the door seals on these old SIIA's ? I just finished (can't believe it took so long, my pop riveter is all popped out!) insatalling new "sponge" all round on the trusty '66 109 Diesel. Unfortunately, the front door front seals tend to fold the wrong way when the door closes leaving half the seal hanging out in the breeze. The door seems properly adjusted and there's certainly no adjusting to be done to the seals. Talcum powder helps. Do any of you have some idea of whether the seal will eventually take a "set" and no longer cause so much aerodynamic turbulence ? Also need advice on the roof window seals. Yes, of course there's a big honkin rack in the way. The manual shows a dandy tool for this chore.Right. Any field expedient method that may be conquered by the totally clueless would be appreciated. As long as I have your undivided attention, I need rear springs sometime soon. Any spares out there needing a good home? From "Gerald" Thu Nov 30 20:16:34 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 20:16:34 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Brake squeel in Discos I learned this morning that there is a service bulletin regarding brake squeel in some cars, including my 1996 NAS Disco. Tomorrow I'll learn what difference the service makes. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Thu Nov 30 22:42:43 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:42:43 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Warn Winches... WTB: If anyone has a 12 volt Warn for sale, please let me know... I need one, now... thnx in advance steve _________________________________ |_______|_______|_______|_______| "Moose" | ____________ | | \\ '73 III 88" | / | \ | | \\ ________ | | | | | | \\ | | | \______|_____/ |______|_______\\___|________|__ |___________________|_______________|---------------\ | [] [] [] | | 0 |) | |--] | | _| / OOOOO | | OOOOO |__ |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____| 0 OO o 0 o OO OO o 0 o OO OO o OO "Tread Lightly" OO o OO OOOOO OOOOO Florida Rover Canvas Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (813) 874-5391 (813) 253-0905 (Work) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Dec 01 00:28:14 1995 Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 00:28:14 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Messages to LRO-Digest Alan asks... > Can someone enlighten me as to the "accepted" protocol with replying and > commenting to messages on the LRO Digest. ......snip........ > ....... Where the subject matter is of > mutual interest I would be inclined to reply to both the LRO Digest and > the person sending the message directly. Is this the accepted method? - I'm on the "real-time" list. If I respond to a message, the response is sent to the sender and not the digest. I have to CC to lro@team.net to get my response to the list. I guess for the someone on the "digest" it works just the opposite. I would say that if you are sending the reply to the digest, it is not necessary to send a reply to the sender of the original message, since that person is getting a copy via the digest (or real-time list, as the case may be). Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Fri Dec 1 01:28:01 1995 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 01:28:01 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Water, water everywhere... >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Who designed the door seals on these old SIIA's ? I just finished (can't [SNIP] >Do any of you have some idea of whether the seal will eventually take a "set" >and no longer cause so much aerodynamic turbulence ? They're supposed to settle in eventually so long as you're careful about getting the seal correct when you close the door. Some hot weather helps. Of course my drivers side seal never settled in properly. Maybe I wasn't careful enough with it. Anyhow, if anyone knows a source for the "folded over" type seal material, which I'm told was originally fitted, please let me know. I'm going to redo the seals on my IIa, and would like it to "take" this time. RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Thu Nov 30 22:47:48 1995 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 1995 22:47:48 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Starter "Rebuild" (incl. rover dating) With apologies to Dale whose starter will now sympathetically fail.... In the process of doing a cleaning and brush replacement on the starter tonight I discovered a piece of stiff paper wrapped into the periphery of the interior against the "access" slots on the side. [no it wasn't orange :)] This isn't mentioned in any of the documents/manuals I've seen on the starter. I assume it was intended as an attempt at hindering the "ingress" of water. I've removed it since it was in less than pristine condition and appear to serve no effective purpose (e.g., it wasn't visibly serving to "insulate" wires or prevent contact). However, this did make me wonder, does anyone know of a reason not to seal the unit by using a light amount of gasket silicone or such around the metal ring covering the openings? Maybe someone can confirm or deny an observation. I noticed that under the LUCAS stamped into the housing are the number 09 69. I assume this is a date location that might be peripherally useful to those trying to pin down their rover ages. Am I wrong? Is this common knowledge? Cheers, Jeremy P.S. Does anyone know what the red/rusty scribble LUCAS 6 6 6 on the paper means? :) From "Steve Methley" Fri Dec 1 10:16:45 1995 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:16:45 +0000 From: "Steve Methley" Subject: Re: UK 2 carb v/8 owners--FS carb synch tool & Man pages John kindly offers: >...I will take 25 pounds for it in English notes.... Unfortunately these can From howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Sat Dec 02 01:54:53 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 01:54:53 MST From: howtaw@hg.uleth.ca Subject: 3.9L EFI Thanks for the suggestions that I have received on the different means of fueling a 3.5L V8 that was once EFI. Some of you have expresed concern over the operation of the 3.9L with the 3.5L EFI unit. At last report it was running very well and the owner was pleased with the increase in power over the 3.5L unit. If anyone is planning on doing this conversion I would point out the fact that this one was done by the Land Rover dealer in my area. You may wish to research the matter further before you begin to tear out the resident 3.5L lump. In case anyone is wondering where the 3.9L engine come from I'll tell you. Someone with deep pockets put a 5.0L Linchfield engine into a brand new RR. It went strait from the show room to the shop. The 5.0L is major $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. I can only dream. Andrew Howton From OscarM Sat Dec 02 19:54:39 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 19:54:39 +0800 From: OscarM Subject: 12/2 digest missing.... Someone make my weekend.... Received up to #4 of 30, would appreciate anyone forwarding the complete 12/2 digest to me. Thanks all. Oscar omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Dec 02 05:18:54 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 05:18:54 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: FAQ ftp site A few folks have been asking if there was an ASCII version of the FAQ that could be ftp'd. Up until now, I had to say no. Now I can say yes. ftp://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/pub/users/bens/FAQ/ In that directory are 8 files: LR_FAQ.top, LR_FAQ.intro, LR_FAQ.1, LR_FAQ.2, LR_FAQ.3, LR_FAQ.4, LR_FAQ.5, LR_FAQ.6. They correspond to the parts of the FAQ as found on the web page. The Web page will allways have the most current version as I make little updates every few days (mostly on club and vendor information). I plan on making an ASCII version about once a quarter. Also if you have any club or vendor information that I don't have, please email Dixon or myself. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From OscarM Sat Dec 02 21:38:26 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 21:38:26 +0800 From: OscarM Subject: Sightings...Rover jpgs http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/images/series3.jpg http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/images/rangy1.jpg http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/images/rangy2.jpg omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From BobandSueB@aol.com Sat Dec 2 10:30:47 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:30:47 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Any Santanas in US ? >I. As to Steve's query >about Santana LRs in the US, I knew of one 109" for sale in western >Mass. >last year. It sounded great on paper, but seemed expensive. Also, I >believe a fellow named Bill in Cincinnati has one that Jeff wrote up in >the RN newsletter last year. >Frank Twarog >Burlington, VT From Roger Sinasohn Sat Dec 2 10:29:23 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:29:23 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Uncle Roger scores big (GPS) and Granny was right! I am now a proud owner of a only-slightly-less-common-than-dormobiles, ever-popular Garmin GPS45! How did a poor (and I mean broke) schmuck like me finally get my hands on a GPS, after depositing huge amounts of drool in various West Marine stores, and lusting after them for years? Well, all it takes is a totally cool brother. Yep, Stan (the one I've gotten hooked on rovers) got me one for my birthday. My roommate Craig coughed up the mounting bracket, cigarette lighter adapter, and PC software to go with it. (And to be fair, the excessive gift certificate to Tower Records (to replace the 22 CD's stolen from my desk at work), TriBond game, truffles, and (coolest of all) videos of The Wrong Trousers and A Grand Day Out(? I forget the name but it's still cool) that Rachel got me was great too.) Anyway, as Granville said at the Mendocino run, the best way to spend one's 50th birthday is in the company of other LR owners. Went to lunch with a bunch of the local (Silicon Valley) LR folks (lotsa discos, a D90, 2 109's, and Bill Growl's 88" Elphino) and even had a good beer (don't tell HP!) to go with my Buffalo Burger. Then, headed out to Scotty's to play some poker, and was completely surprised by the arrival of my roommate along with my sister. (Rachel and Stan and I had gone out together.) Pizza, beer, Cake, and a gift of one of only two in existance LROA wall clocks rounded out the evening. And to boot, I even won at Poker! Wow! So anyway, anyone know of cool GPS software I should get? Thanks everyone! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Sat Dec 2 10:29:14 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 10:29:14 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Models > Does anybody know of a source of glue-together type Land-Rover models? I > Found 1 thru Triple C in Pennsylvania 717=854=4081 . Still looking for > other sources... Give Hobby Heaven a call. I was at my cousin's (rock star, race car builder, etc.) place for thanksgiving and took a look at one of their list of model car kits. I did see one Land Rover kit listed (Monogram 2279 -- 1981 Land Rover) at $25. (These are older kits, I think.) They also had a couple of Range Rovers. Complete info is: Hobby Heaven P.O. Box 3229 Grand Rapids, MI 49501 1-616-453-1094 Enjoy! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Dec 2 17:23:50 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:23:50 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Models & Sources With Christmas approaching some Land Rover models and US sources: 109 Ser III Station Wagon? (have not seen) Heller 1/43 plastic kit: TC $7.95 RR 4 door? (have not seen) Aoshima 1/24 plastic kit: TC $39.00 D90 Hardtop, Britains 1/32: TC $24.95, AB $24.95 D90 Hardtop w/ trailer, Britain1/32: RN $30.00 Discovery, Britains 1/32: RN $22.50 Discovery (Police), Britains 1/32: TC $24.95, RN $25.00, AB $19.95 Discovery (Rally), Britains 1/32: RN $25.00 Range Rover, (police), Matchbox: TC $15.00 Range Rover, Solido 1/43: TC $18.00 109 Station Wag. Made in Germany, plastic assembled, great for kids: TC $19.95, AB $16.95 AB = Atlantic British 1-800-533-2210 RN = Rovers North 1-802-879-0032 TC = Triple C 1-717-854-4081 For a very complete selection of LR models in Wales: 01678 520820 Direct dial from US 011-44-1678-520820 (rem. 5 hrs ahead of EST) Note: I have no connection with any of the above. David Cockey 1960 88 II SW 1960 88 II PU From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Dec 2 17:23:43 1995 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:23:43 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Series II Trivia The Series II LR was introduced in 1958 and the Series I became the Series I. At the end of 1961 the Series IIA replaced the Series II. What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the hood (bonnet)? David Cockey 1960 88 II SW 1960 88 II PU From Duncan Brown Sat Dec 02 21:31:52 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 21:31:52 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Series II trivia > What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 > Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the > hood (bonnet)? Gee, this is pretty embarassing, since my 88 is a SII and I don't know the answer right off the top of my head! I'll name everything I can think of off the top of my head: -- Funky valence panel between the front bumper and grill. Two pieces riveted together that are flatter and longer than the one I see on other Rovers. -- "Pendant" tie rod ends, i.e. the nut's on top and they hang down below the part they attach to. -- My headlights seem different than everyone else's; they stick out farther, with bigger and rounder chrome rims (I'm starting to reach here...) -- Horn button is on a stalk attached to the steering column, not in the center of the wheel. -- If it still has the original exhaust system, you can see it coming into the left wheel well and travelling under the floorboard to go under the vehicle. -- Would the optional one be the door locks? They perform their locking on the *outside* of the vehicle, with a pawl catching onto a post inside the handle pocket; the lock is attached to the handle itself. Just for good measure, mine has another feature only ever seen on SII's, and only a small number of them sent to Canada (where mine came from): one-piece doors! Kinda like the rear 2 doors of a 109 SW. One continuous piece, with the galvanized "capping" just a piece bolted to the outside, and little drain tubes coming down from the window tracks and poking out through the door skin. Duncan, whose VA license plate reads "SERIES 2" From Benjamin Allan Smith Sat Dec 02 19:08:33 1995 Date: Sat, 02 Dec 1995 19:08:33 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Series II Trivia In message <199512022224.RAA16751@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > The Series II LR was introduced in 1958 and the Series I became the Series I. > At the end of 1961 the Series IIA replaced the Series II. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the > hood (bonnet)? I'll take a crack at this one. But first what did you mean by "later Series IIA"? Does later mean just that the SIIA was made after the SII, or are you differentiating between SIIs and SIIAs made after, say, 1968 when the headlights moved from the breakfast to the wings? I'll assume that you are asking the difference between the SII and early SIIAs 1.The Serial number of the SIIA has a suffix letter starting with an "A", look on the right front spring horn. 2.The Series IIA introduced the 2.25L diesel. A badge nenoting this is found on the grill, normally the lower left courner of the grill (as you face the rever from the front) 3.The steering arms (connecting the tie rod to the swivel balls) was relocated from attatching to the top of the swivel ball to attaching to the bottom of the swivel ball. 4.In Oct 1963 the headlamps were changed to a flat lenses from a convex lens design used in all previous Land From PZavaletta@aol.com Sun Dec 3 06:50:10 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 06:50:10 -0500 From: PZavaletta@aol.com Subject: How To Fix Squeaky Steering Wheel? I have a '95 Range Rover County Classic with the ole squeaky steering wheel. My dealer has lubricated it once, then ordered the part fix for it, but it is on back-order. If there is a way that I can fix it myself, please respond with instructions as to where to lubricate. I remember the dealer saying something about a bushing near the firewall, but do I get to it from inside, under the wheel, or from under the hood? Also, what do I lubricate it with, pending arrival of the part fix? Thanks in advance Peter M. Zavaletta '95 White Range Rover County Classic (Winston) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 3 Dec 95 9:05:08 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Series II trivia Re: Pendant steering parts and door locks on a Series II: DUnno 'bout those, as my '64 SIIa has them also. Of course, I also have that other epitome o convenience - a Dipstick in the transmission for checking oil.....8*) Alan From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 3 07:09:05 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 07:09:05 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? John has the Christmas spirit... >Well, I just finished decorating the Rover for Christmas. 200 white lights (and plenty of duct tape) outlining the bonnet, wings, windscreen, rear door and roof, powered by a little 12VDC-to-120VAC inverter. Looks great at night, hideous in the day. .........snip......... >So I started wondering -- does anyone else decorates their Rover for the holidays? - A few years ago, a lawyer here in town had two 109's. He was driving one around without the proper registration until stopped by the local constabulary. They gleefully wrote a number of summonses - very embarrassing since he was the city attorney at the time. He took it all in stride, parked the 109 on his front lawn, adorned it with numerous Christmas lights and wrapped it with the yellow vinyl tape that reads "Police Line - Do Not Cross"!!! A picture of it made it to the local newspaper. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern') NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) #:-}> From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 3 07:09:05 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 07:09:05 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Models & Sources David Cockey lists a few models... > >With Christmas approaching some Land Rover models and US sources: ......snip...... >AB = Atlantic British 1-800-533-2210 >RN = Rovers North 1-802-879-0032 >TC = Triple C 1-717-854-4081 - Triple C also has Land Rover books and Video Tapes. They also have a number of other plastic and metal British car models... Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern') NY 12078 (USA) 7 1971 SerIIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) #:-}> From Inkornoink@aol.com Sun Dec 3 10:15:06 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 10:15:06 -0500 From: Inkornoink@aol.com Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? John Liu wrote" "....So I started wondering -- does anyone else decorates their Rover for the holidays?" Yes. But not to the Grizzwald extent that you've gone to -- way to go with the family truckster! A very - Martha Stewart - esque wreath & bow dress my "breakfast" quite nicely. Created and put their by my very own live-in Martha Stewart - wanna be (and wife). Happy Holidays! Hank 1990 RR c (Moby) From BobandSueB@aol.com Sun Dec 3 11:47:42 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 11:47:42 -0500 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: Re: S II to S IIA differences In a message dated 95-12-03 03:50:15 EST, you write: >Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 17:23:43 -0500 >Subject: Series II Trivia >The Series II LR was introduced in 1958 and the Series I became the Series I. >At the end of 1961 the Series IIA replaced the Series II. >What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >1960 88” II SW >1960 88” II PU HI, Here is maybe two more. The SII had different rear light lenses with little (propeller?) blades. Also the rear corners had prongs apparently for the soft top tie downs. Bob Bernard From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Sun Dec 3 08:48:25 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 08:48:25 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: SII vs SIIA Well here's 1: Solid, 1 piece front doors, at least on the 109s. I've got a couple of these from a 1959/60 wreck. The doors have a number of other different features associated with this major change. Are we including the 109s/107s? Cheers, Jeremy From Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Sun Dec 3 12:09:12 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 12:09:12 -0500 From: Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Subject: Diesel... In reply to Bill Adams...... Glow plugs test out fine,I leave them on for at least a minute and sometimes more. The key to getting the engine started is RPMs. If it cranks fast, it starts fast (this holds true for the Volvo marine diesel in my sailboat). Therefore I think I need MORE POWER-ERGHH! Anybody have a solution to this? I wonder if two 12v batteries in parallel would work or do I simply need to get two ultra robust 6v units. HMMM. ...There is something not quite right here, and cranking it over cures the symptom not the cause. To put it into perspective, I ran a SIII diesel on a more than daily basis, through several north Finnish winters. With no engine pre-heat, no cover, the engine *always* fired the first piston stroke! This was at -30C, 10/30W in the sump, 70% glycol in the cooling system. The Finns have some superb diesel fuel up there, which may well help. But anyway... certainly the battery was a key feature, since I had problems until I ditched the 2 yr old Exide job and bolted in a local 105 AH 12V unit. It seemed as though the problem was the heat generated by the plugs, rather than cranking speed with the old battery. It usually took a while for the air to clear... you couldn't breath for the unburnt diesel fumes spewing out the pipe. The Finns wouldn't park next to the exhaust side, pretty major cleaning job if they did.... The only problem was the oil drag on the transmission and the lack of general heat production from the fearsome standard power unit. Anyhow, I expect you've checked the normal things like pump timing, starter motor/electrics, etc. etc., so yep, why not ditch the batteries and bolt in a new 12V unit. The things are consumables. (Like modern cars!) Grahame From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Dec 03 12:26:40 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Address Change Howdy folks.. Gloversville is no longer a dirt road off the Information Superhighway! A local company is providing service via a local phone call - so - I'm switching Internet service providers and I'll have a new E-Mail address. My new address is landrvr@blacdisc.com I'll be dropping the Delphi address probably by the end of December, unless I have a lot of mail problems with the new provider. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS --- landrvr@blacdisc.com From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sun Dec 03 15:34:16 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 15:34:16 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: All my troubles are Rover... Embarrassment, Ignominy, Expense !! Pulling away from a green light last night something went BANG in the driveline and the old 109 is now so much dead weight. I pushed it off to the side of the road(quite hair raising in suburban D.C. saturday night traffic) and called in a roll-off. Symptom A: no pwer to the driving wheels. Symptom B: Driveshaft does not spin with gearbox engaged (both front and rear) Symptom C: gearbox and overdrive unit shift smoothly through all gears. I'm going to survey the damage tomorrow and see just how bad it is. Any ideas and suggestions from the gallery before I get my hands dirty would be graciously recieved. From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Sun Dec 03 15:40:48 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 15:40:48 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? >X-State: 3 >X-Total-length: 1731 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 38 lines)] > apartment this year, I guess I just needed something else to light up. >So I started wondering -- does anyone else decorates their Rover for the > holidays? Sarah and I did a holiday decorating job on the 109 s2a. We ran multicolored lights all round and on the rack and set up the camera for a portrait. Let me tell you, the photo came out great and will be our greeting card this year. For a copy, send me an e-mail! From "John Y. Liu" Sun Dec 03 14:32:07 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 14:32:07 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Series I Sold I am advised that the Series I that I wrote about has been sold for $1,000. Don't know the details. Anyway, no point asking me for the owner's name, etc. anymore. From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Dec 3 22:50:16 1995 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 22:50:16 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: List wierdness The 12/2 list was truncated (or at least I received it that way). Message headers and footers from the Major were intact, but only 7 of 30+ messages. Any one else with this affliction or is my no-namo service proFrom karen@uni.masey.ac.nz, feldman@rentwes.org.nz, rjames@otego.ac.nz, Tue Dec 5 00:56:32 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 00:56:32 +1000 From: karen@uni.masey.ac.nz, feldman@rentwes.org.nz, rjames@otego.ac.nz, Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular USA Titles -----> NOTE: Please first read my note which appears below the "Request for more info Form." Then, to get more info, just fill out the "Request for More Info" form completely and *FAX* or *SMAIL* it back to the company. You will get a quick reply via email within 1 business day of receipt of the info request form below. IMPORTANT NOTICE FOR THOSE FAXING IN THEIR REPLY: Please make sure you return *only* the below form and *no part* of this message other than the actual form below. If you do not know how to cut and paste the below form onto a fresh clean blank page for faxing, then you may re-type the below form, as long as you copy it line for line *exactly.* This is necessary in order for them to be able to process the tremendous number of replies that they get daily. Your fax goes directly onto their 4.2 gigabyte computer hard drive, not paper, and all incoming fax calls are set-up to be *auto-terminated* if your fax: 1. has a cover page; 2. is more than one page 3. does not begin with the "cut here/begin" line from the below form 4. does not end with the "cut here/end" line from the below form. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NOTE: Their fax line is open 24 hrs. per day, but due to thousands of inquiries coming in per week from potential new members living overseas, the easiest time to get through is Monday-Friday, 9 am - 5 pm EST (New York Time). If you have trouble getting through to their fax, just drop the below form to them via smail (airmail or first class mail). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *------------cut here/begin-------------------------------------------* REQUEST FOR MORE INFO: please return *only* this section (with no cover page) via 1-page fax to: 718-967-1550 in the USA or via smail (airmail) to: Magazine Club Inquiry Center Att. FREE Catalogue-by-email Dept. PO Box 990 Staten Island NY 10312-0990 Sorry, but incomplete forms *will not* be acknowledged. If you do not have an email address, or access to one, they will not be able to help you until you do have one. If you saw this message, then you should have one. :) Name: Internet email address: Smail home address: City-State-Zip: Country: Work Tel. #: Work Fax #: Home Tel. #: Home Fax #: How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of the internet that you saw us mentioned in): Referral by Karen Stern. 120495-l Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on the newsstand or in the store: Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail: Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you: Catalogue format desired (list "1," "2," "3" or "4"): *------------cut here/end--------------------------------------------* Catalogue Format Options: 1. 19-Part email- can be read by EVERYONE (~525 K Total). 2. For more advanced computer users: attached text file ~525K - you must know how to download an attached text file and then be able to open it with your word processor. If in doubt, don't ask for this version. This isn't for internet *newbies.* Better to order option 1 and spend a few minutes pasting them into one whole text document with your word processor, than to waste hours trying to figure how to deal with this option. 3. For more advanced Macintosh computer users: compressed attached text file, created with a Stuffit(tm) self-extracting archive (.sea), ~133K. Can be decompressed by any Macintosh computer user; no special expansion software or knowledge of Stuffit (tm) needed. You just double-click on the file icon and it automatically expands (unstuffs). This is for more advanced mac computer users only, as you still have to know how to deal with an attached file. It will cut your download time by 75%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. 4. For expert computer users: compressed attached text file, created with Stuffit(tm), ~114K. Can be decompressed by any computer user who has expansion software to decompress (expand) Stuffit(tm) (.sit) files. This is for more advanced computer users only and will cut your download time by 78%. Expands out to the same ~525K file in option #2. See option #2 for more info on what you will need to be able to do. Hi fellow 'netters, My name is Karen Stern and I recently started using a magazine subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them. They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country on a subscription basis. As for computer magazines from the USA, they more of a selection than I ever knew even existed. They have magazines for most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles. Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their competitors and even the publishers themselves. This is their price guarantee. Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half of what the newsstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines. On some titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newsstands charge. They feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas. In the USA, people buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes or hours. They are so cheap in the USA! Well, this company would like to make it the same way for their overseas members. They are also cheaper than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the publishers themselves! This is their price guarantee. Around one-half their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language. Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and cut-out all the middlemen. They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student. I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my part-time software business! Please fill out the above form and carefully follow the intructions above to get it to them via fax or smail. They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet. They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it. They have been very helpful and helped me with all my address changes as I haved moved from one country to another. They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from a special list of over 295 popular titles published in the USA. They will give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular USA titles they sell. They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have clients in around 45 or 46 countries now. Outside the USA there is a charge for FPH (foreign postage and handling) (on both paid and freebie subs) that varies from magazine to magazine. I have found their staff to be very friendly and courteous. They even helped me with an address change when I moved from one country to another. The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members" automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts as a new member. When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes he has one of his assistants call. He is kind of quirky sometimes - he insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!), but you can place future orders (after your first order) via E-mail. He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know just as much as he does about this magazine stuff. If you live overseas, he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long distance rates are cheaper then. He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing members and he does virtually no advertising. When I got set-up, they had a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately when you call. ) I think they are able to get back to prospective new members the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased their staff. I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above form to them, that is the way to get started! They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 525K-big and juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form above. It has lists of all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that they sell. They then send you email that outlines how his club works and the list of free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what he sells; and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly, no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and answer all your questions. Once you get in, you'll love them. I do. Sincerely, Karen Stern ps. please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net who you think might be interested in it! It is a great deal! If you join and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for each new person you get to join after you join! If you exceed 25 referrals, they let you use them to give away as gifts, for Christmas, Chanukah or any other occasion. Please be kind enough to mention my name when you join. I will then get a free magazine for a year for referring you. Thank you. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 4 95 Dec EST 1907 Date: 4 Dec 95 7:58:41 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Who was the idiot behind the magazine subscriptions? I have a 5 From Easton Trevor Mon Dec 04 08:06:00 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 08:06:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Santanas in US While in Virginia for the Mid Atlantic I met a house painter who used to own a Santana. He said this was imported by a Mr Bill Dickey, a scottish refugee!, and was now back with said Mr Dickey. Anyone know of its whereabouts? Trevor Easton From Stuart Williams Mon Dec 04 08:25:00 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 08:25:00 EST From: Stuart Williams Subject: Squeaky Wheel Fix (Short Term) >> From: PZavaletta@aol.com >> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 06:50:10 -0500 >> Subject: How To Fix Squeaky Steering Wheel? Pending a trip to our dealer for the 'official' corrective action, I fixed the squeaky wheel on my '95 Disco as follows : 1) From under the hood, locate the opening in the firewall where the steering column passes through. There will be a black rubber fitting in the opening. 2) Use a cartridge-style grease gun to apply a bead of grease into the right and left sides of the narrow gap between the firewall grommet and the steering column itself. There is a recess all around the column that extends to the actual point of contact with the steering column. 3) Take a small paintbrush (I used an old 1" wide brush) and use it spread the grease around all sides of the column to ensure coverage where it's needed. That's it! Five minutes maximum. Four weeks later and I'm still squeak-free, and mine was getting to be very insistent before 'the fix', especially on colder mornings. I had already tried greasing from the driver's side of the firewall but was unsuccessful, most likely due to a steel bracket and other obstructions that were in the way. As to type of grease, I used marine-grade lithium grease that I had on hand for the steering mechanism on our sailboat. (BTW, 'sailboat' is Latin for "fiberglass-lined hole in the water into which you pour money", so 'Rover' must be a terra firma derivative!) The results have been very satisfactory; in fact the steering feels notably smoother which would seem to indicate that there was friction even when there weren't annoying squeaks ... YMMV! Good luck, Stuart Williams '95 Disco V8i "Great White" '85 LandCruiser "Old Paint" From "Tom Rowe" Mon Dec 4 07:33:06 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 07:33:06 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Diesel Starting Bill Adams asks: Snip > Therefore I think I need MORE POWER-ERGHH! Anybody have a solution to this? > I wonder if two 12v batteries in parallel would work or do I simply need to > get two ultra robust 6v units. HMMM. Get the two biggest 12v batteries that will fit. If you want to get fanatical about it one could be a deep cycle hooked only to your glow plugs and the other for cranking the starter, but I don't think that's really needed. Just get high reserve capacity and the highest cca you can. since it's a LR you amy want to consider truck batteries since they are designed to handle vibration better. Good luck. cough,cough, hack, hack. Man, where's all this smoke coming from? Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Anthony Verriello" 04 1995 Dec GMT 1909 Date: 04 Dec 1995 09:15:09 GMT From: "Anthony Verriello" Subject: NAS D90 Hardtop [This note has been sent to the following InterNet address(es): lro @ Land-Rover.Team.Net] Since I have spoken to a few LRO's who voiced an interest in hearing about my self installation and removal of my D90 hard top I thought I would take an opportunity to answer everyone in one shot in the digest....forgive me if this message does not interest you. I have a '94 NAS D90 that I bought before the hardtop was available. I was the first person to purchase the retrofit kit from the dealership when first imported and subsequently was the first person to discover that they had made no provision for locking and unlocking the rear gate. As far as the price goes, I paid $2500.00 US for mine. I think that this price is high, but it is the only show in town and the D90 is consderably warmer, quiter and more secure with it on. If you have a '94 you should also plan on buying the new lockset for the rear gate so you can open the door from the outside, this adds another $100-$200 US. Also the full safari cage is required if you don't have it...another costly add on. The top is not 100% draft and water tight. When I first had it installed, I let the dealer do it the first time, I was a little unsettled by the rain and drafts comming in. After having re-installed it myself and seeing how it all goes together I can honestly say that it could be made tight, but only if you want permanent seals and dont plan on removing it. Also I would not recommend installing it yourself the first time. Drilling and installing the riv-nuts will most likely not be worth the savings on the installation cost (6-8 hours of labor). Removing it and reinstalling the soft top is very straight foward and can easily be accomplished by two people in a few hours. Installation, the second time, also requires two people and since I just completed this last week let me give a few pointers: 1) Installation takes at least 5 hours!!! I started way too late and ran out of sunlight-really bad move. 2) Do it before it gets cold. Trying to line up all the holes in the various bits is nearly impossible & dangerous when the fiberglass is brittle from the cold. 3) Inventory your hardware first...I was missing some washers and things and it really caused problems. 4) Wires to overhead lights need to go under the top....not in the door jamb, unless you are not attatched to closing the drivers door. Trust me, you dont want to take the top off to remedy this. 5) Be patient...the instructions (yeah I know read LRO's dont need any) says things like 'one person should muscle the windshield into place under the top to make the holes line up as the other person bolts it down!!!' -- not something you want to rush 6) Follow the instructions and dont worry about the extra pieces that the instructions dont mention...obviously not important. All in all, I like the hardtop, dont mind taking it off, but wouldnt want to install it more than once a year. One person asked me if it could be removed for a day and reinstalled. NO WAY. Even if you didnt mind wasting half the day to do it, the top would not survive the repeated removal/installations. If anyone in the NY area needs to have their top installed/removed I am available...however I will need to charge twice the hourly rate of the dealership because I would simply bring it to them anyway and I need to make some money on the deal ;~)). I do offer free advice if anyone would like to contact me by email with questions. verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com +-+--+-@ |_|_/|__\__ | _ |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite, =(_)=+==(_)' petrol not sandwiches) NAS '94 black D90 (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole) Pre-requisite anal disclaimer to follow::: The views and opinions expressed here are solely the views of myself and do not imply any opinion or view of my employer. From "Bill Skidmore" 4 1995 Dec -0500 1909 Date: 4 Dec 1995 09:25:31 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Sandy; As you may have noticed, there have been a number of mentions of this abomination to enable me to point the finger towards the source. Hey, Major; Any chance of reconstituting the balance of that list and retransmitting it to the list members? ------ From: Owner-LRO@uk.stratus.com, Mon, Dec 4, 1995 ------ From "Tom Rowe" Mon Dec 4 08:33:41 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 08:33:41 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Who was the idiot behind the magazine subscriptions? I have Alan asks: > Who was the idiot behind the magazine subscriptions? I have a 5 As usual, the return address is invalid; however, one of them is a real host, Otego University in New Zealand, but the user is not listed in their gopher directory. I have e-mailed someone at the univeristy to try and find the address of the person to whom I can send the message information. Not that I think it will do any good. Most likely they've spoofed the return address. E-mail me directly if you want info I get, if any. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Mon Dec 4 09:29:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:29:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: Hi-Lift and Disco Bob Watson writes... >neat! I put a shakle adapter in the receiver hitch and used it to jack the >back of the Disco up, and the Hi-lift was up about 3-feet before the rear >wheel's got off the ground. This seems to be a problem. One of the ways I used to use the Hi-lift on an old CJ was to raise the wheels stuck in the mud and push the vehicle off of the jack and onto a non-hole. The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. Cheers, -Christian -------------- Christian Szpilfogel '95 Discovery Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Mon Dec 4 09:29:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:29:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: Hi-Lift and Disco Bob Watson writes... >neat! I put a shakle adapter in the receiver hitch and used it to jack the >back of the Disco up, and the Hi-lift was up about 3-feet before the rear >wheel's got off the ground. This seems to be a problem. One of the ways I used to use the Hi-lift on an old CJ was to raise the wheels stuck in the mud and push the vehicle off of the jack and onto a non-hole. The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. Cheers, -Christian -------------- Christian Szpilfogel '95 Discovery Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From GElam30092@aol.com Mon Dec 4 10:11:30 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:11:30 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Discovery racks There are several ads. for racks (full-length, half-length) for the Discovery in the LRO and LRW. Has anyone purchased an after-market product? What is the carrying capacity of the your rack on the Discovery? More than the 150 lb +/- recommended? BTW: I see *tons* of stuff on top of the Camel Trophy Discoveries. I'm assuming that their racks are braced against the internal roll cages to provide more carrying strength? Can anyone in the UK with an older CT vehicle verify? Gerry "He's ain't heavy... he's my brother" Elam From Ross Leidy Mon Dec 04 10:14:17 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 10:14:17 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: Spotted 95 NAS D90SW Dropped my D90 off at the dealer today for the 2nd in anticipated series of warranty service visits. They had just received their first D90SW delivered over the weekend--alpine white, very nice. Didn't have the time to stop and drool, but I hope to go back later to check it out (if it hasn't been sold by then). Now that Winter is setting-in here in N.E. Ohio, that hardtop keeps looking better and better. For now, I'm flappin' in the breeze. ______________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Senior Software Engineer Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 #3032 From Peter Kutschera Mon Dec 4 16:30:18 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:30:18 +0100 From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? Hello! John Y. Liu wrote: :) Well, I just finished decorating the Rover for Christmas. 200 white lights ..... :) Looks great at night, ... Can you post an image? Thanks, Peter Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Dec 4 15:49:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:49:00 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Hi-Lift and Disco On 4 Dec 95, christian (c.j.) szpilfogel wrote: > The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look > like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. I've got a 5' in the back of my landy - gives you 2' of lift :-) (more likly, it gives you 1' of lift & sinks the baseplate 1' into the mud!) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From OscarM Tue Dec 05 00:01:12 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 00:01:12 +0800 From: OscarM Subject: Posting upcoming events Came across a web page, http://www.indirect.com/www/a4x4/4x4clubs.html, which appears to welcome postings of upcoming club events. For your info. omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Mon Dec 4 11:26:14 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:26:14 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Water, water everywhere... Whoops, looks like a made a little mistake in my query when I responded to this thread the first time. To set the record straight, I DO have "folded over" weather stripping on my IIa. It's installed with the opening in the rubber facing the opening of the doorway, and everything is fine except for the upper portion of the drivers door, where i's refused to settle in despite the constant use of tape to hold it in place. What I meant to ask was this: It is my understanding that the original door seal was made of a full round tube, not the current "half tube" (for lack of a better description) style. Can anyone confirm, or deny this? If so, does anybody know of an alternative material that's more like what I'm told was originally fitted? This is a small problem, but I'd really like to get it straightened out and I'd rather not redo the job with the same stuff if I'm just going to have the same problem. Thanks, RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 04 11:43:45 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 11:43:45 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Christmas Lights, Frames, Steering Relay Well, being Jewish, I wouldn't likely use christmas lights, but I am looking for a Menorah shaped aerial if anybody,s got one... In the spirit of the season however, I did help my roomate, who's Rover is languishing, stripped bare of its hydraulics, to acquire a Christmas Tree and a load of firewood. I'm sure the Rover was quite happy to be engaged in such family oriented work... the back was loaded to the hilt (tilt?, nah, hardtop.) with oak and handled it with nary a groan or grind. In fact the ride actually felt smoother! On another note, picked up a used frame on Saturday, took it to its temporary home and stripped it of all its various pieces, i.e steering relay, spring bushings(burning them out was rather neat, sort of like those "snakes" you get as a kid, just way more toxic), bump stops, brake lines, etc,. Had to whack the hell out of the relay to get it out, so I guess I need a new one. Thought about getting it rebuilt but apparently it's not worth it with BM versions going for $125 US. Also noticed one front horn has been hit and is tweaked a little towards the inside of the frame. THought about using my HI-lift to try to bend it back, any ideas? Should I not bother? Also planning to galvanise, so any tips on that are welcome and appreciated. Thanks for listening. Dave Bobeck 72 SIII "Green Car" From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Mon Dec 4 11:49:25 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 11:49:25 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: Haynes FS and a SIIa encounter 1. the SI-II-IIa Haynes repair manual, new - $18 . 2. Driving off the beach after a windsurfing session in a New Jersey island town of Seaside, saw a "perfect" SIIa pull up to a liquor store. I pulled up behind him, jumped out of the F*rd, and yelled out something about having a Landie myself. The old man didn't slow down, just said something like "yeah?" and went in to the store. So I had time to look over the Landie. Obviously, just came off the beach. Everything, inluding tires, looked of original vintage. Very well beat, undistinguishable color paint, looked like a daily fishing/liquor store driver. 109 ragtop with 4 doors? Instead of the "genuine" ragtop, an adapted blue biminy top on marine stainless tubing covered just the front seats and a couple of feet behind them. Not at all a weather proof design, barely enough to slow rain and winter air from coming in. The old man came out, holding a bottle with a bag over it. Now he was willing to talk, but only long enough to tell me that this WAS a SW, but he cut the rear tops off, and made the "biminy" ragtop himself. "The hardtops are too stuffy", he said. Tough dude! (I bet the *real* reason was that he was getting too much interference with his mobile phone :) - sorry, couldn't resist. Let me know if you want the manual. Thanks Jan From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 04 11:56:58 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 11:56:58 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Christmas Camouflage I was watching a show on PBS the other day, about modern camouflage techniques. One involved a LAnd-Rover 110 driving behind a cloud of smoke (must have been a diesel) which you could not see through. The next shot was the same image seen through an infrared camera, which was able to easily see right through the smoke (could be handy to have one of those onboard.) Another technique was for obscuring a dark object against a light background, by covering it with bright lights. Worked quite well, in fact it started on WWII bombers, so that the U-boat captains couldn't see 'em until it was too late. Maybe something similar could be achieved by the use of multitudes of Christmas lights, although they'd have to be white and not blinking... Just a thought Dave "too much spare time" Bobeck From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Mon Dec 4 12:05:43 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:05:43 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Jack All (Hi-lift) accessories? Here's a question for the experienced offroad contingent. This will become crucial to me this summer as a friend has offered me the use of his Vermont property, an old trappers cabin, for camping, fishing, and as a base of operations for some trail exploration. Getting to the property involves crossing a (hopefully low) river. What was the first thing he bought after the property? A new LWB Series II Land-Rover of course. He had a winch and was forced to use it to get up the muddy bank a couple of times. I'm still hoping to avoid such a purchase, at least for the time being. (I may decide to get a good come-along though.) At the Mid Atlantic Rally I bought myself a 48" Jackall 8000 "hi-lift" jack. In addition to allowing me to change a tire, I'd like to have the necessary hardware to use the thing as an emergency "winch" should the need arise. I already have a 25' nylon tow strap that should at least serve as a tree strap. Now I want to fully outfit the vehicle though, as it looks like it may get some serious use. I'd really like to know what people carry in their offroad kits in terms of rope, chain, blocks, shackles, etc. Please be specific in terms of sizes, quantity, grades, materials, etc. Christmas is coming, and your list may be printed out and submitted to Santa, who will probably just hand it directly to the guy at Ace Industrial Hardware. (Mom likes Lou, he doesn't talk down to her.) Also, am I correct that the Jackall needs an attachment before it can be used for pulling? Is there a guide to the various uses for Jackall/Hi-Lift jacks? Ideally, I'd like to lay out a few problems in my driveway before trying to rig something in the middle of a river. Thanks for the input. I think it will be interesting to see what various people consider necessary. And while we're talking about it, why limit ourself to pushing/pulling/lifting. Let's go all the way and talk about what makes an all-around well equipped Rover. RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Dec 4 15:49:00 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:49:00 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Hi-Lift and Disco On 4 Dec 95, christian (c.j.) szpilfogel wrote: > The largest Hi-lift I've seen is a 4' so 1 foot of clearance doesn't look > like it leaves enough room to pull my old trick. I've got a 5' in the back of my landy - gives you 2' of lift :-) (more likly, it gives you 1' of lift & sinks the baseplate 1' into the mud!) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Mon Dec 4 08:19:33 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 08:19:33 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty Greetings, Before I write a letter to Mr. Hughes at LRNA to bitch about the subject warranty I wanted to probe the wisdom on this digest list. The upper rear hatch on our 90 RR (the money pit)--(I'll explain the name in another post) began to rust in the lower right corner. I scheduled a local body shop to do the work. In the meantime I noticed in the Atlantic British want ads that a gentleman from Cleveland, OH., who was selling his 90 RR that he had both upper and lower tailgates replaced under the 6 Year Corrosion Warranty. I called LRNA Owner Care Dept. to ask what procedure to follow. I explained the problem and was told that the warranty covered THE ENTIRE VEHICLE, to call the LR dealer and schedule an inspection by the factory rep. The inspection done, the dealer advised the warranty would not be honored because it only covered the PAINTED surface of the vehicle. Not satisfied with that I called the rep (it took several days to actually speak to this guy) and he said the same thing even reading part of the warranty to me over the phone. He also advised that he had NEVER allowed a corrosion warranty claim. Even when I mentioned the guy from Cleveland he said maybe his dealer paid for the gate replacement because he was a good customer (yeah right). I'm asking for comments and sugestions on how to handle this situation. Anyone else had any corrosion warranty work done? TIA, Rick 90 RR(the money pit) From STEVE COX Mon Dec 4 12:33:28 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 12:33:28 -0500 (EST) From: STEVE COX Subject: IIA for sale in West Virginia Just a quick note to those in the DC area. Looking for that last miniute stocking stuffer? Alan Biggs is looking to sell his 1965 SIIA 88" hardtop. Good condition, asking $4,500. Call Alan at 304-822-5503, Romney, WV From Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY Mon Dec 04 11:48:57 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 11:48:57 -0800 From: Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY Subject: Headlight Guards for Disco's A recent message mentioned the enormous coat of OEM headlight replacements. I shudder at the thought of one of them taking a direct hit while overtaking some goat-roper's Fo/Chev/Dodge pick-em-up while ascending a rock strewn hill. Does anybody know of a source (preferably NA - but anywhere will do) of polycarbonate, lexan or other roost-proof material HEADLIGHT AND FOGLIGHT COVERS for Disco's (95/96 MY) ?? No tint - no BS - just CLEAR protectors. ---------------------------###----------------------------- PROBE ELECTRONICS 100 Higgins Road, Park Ridge IL 60068 USA Keith J. Morehouse / WB9TIY / Society of Midwest Contesters 708-696-2828 FAX: 708-698-2045 e-mail: blckhole@ripco.com ---------------------------###----------------------------- From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Mon Dec 4 09:51:57 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:51:57 -0800 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Models & Sources Just received a plastic scale model Range Rover kit (normal civilian style, not police or ambulance), made by Aoshima, from Triple C. I don't have a lot of experience with models, but I find the amount of detail astonishing. The assembly instructions for the undercarriage look like pages from a shop manual (a Japanese shop manual, anyway). -Matt From David Dodell Mon Dec 04 11:14:04 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 11:14:04 -0700 From: David Dodell Subject: Model of Discovery I am looking hard for a Britains Discovery Model in RED. I ordered one from Rover North, it arrived today in Green, and they claim they are all sold out, and are not planning on getting any more in. Rover Atlantic did not have them in stock either. Any other suggestions? David Dodell --- Internet : david@dental.stat.com WWW : http://www.stat.com/~david Telephone: +1-602-860-1121 FAX : +1-602-451-1165 From "Gerald" Mon Dec 4 13:14:43 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 13:14:43 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Discovery racks On 4 Dec 95 at 10:11, GElam30092@aol.com wrote: > There are several ads. for racks (full-length, half-length) for the Discovery > in the LRO and LRW. Has anyone purchased an after-market product? What is > the carrying capacity of the your rack on the Discovery? More than the 150 > lb +/- recommended? . . . . I asked about this a while back. Part of the issue is stability while driving with extra weight so high up. Don't know how the Camel Trophy vehicles do it. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 04 11:45:19 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 11:45:19 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Results of new cam in the Range Rover. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Results of new cam in the Range Rover. I know there are several Range Rover owners who were eagerly awaiting my completion of the new cam for my '87 RR. Well, here it is: I called several suppliers, British Pacific (BP), and Rovers West, and got some prices on cam and lifters for my RR since I (thought) had a lifter clicking. Then I called Crane Cams in Florida and was told that there were several available. From his description I selected a "mild RV cam" that was to provide more low end torque and possibly better fuel milage. Great! I thought, and at a price less than that of the suppliers. Parts come in, get installed (a GREAT deal of details left out here, but it was quite a job!) I also had the valves ground since I needed to replace a head gasket anyway. Basically, with the exception of main bearings and rings, a "new" engine. Of course, there were the usual surprises along the way, some expected (timing gear and chain worn) some not (A/C fans worn out, one was unplugged, and an A/C hose). We discovered that the "noisy lifter" was actually a combination of a worn out pushrod and rocker, and a "flat" cam lobe. (Not actually "flat" but very noticeably worn down.) Finally back together. Starts with a bit of difficulty, we brake in the cam and test drive. Seems to idle with a bit of a lope, (cool!) but doesn't seem to have any power. Like I have to floor it to even go anywhere. Something was definitely wrong!!! To make a long story short (too late) I resorted to calling Crane Cams technical support number. The guy started asking me about the compression, and lifter pre-load, when he suddenly stops and says "Wait a minute... What was that cam number?" He then tells me that that was for a non-computer vehicle and will not work with the RR. He said that all he could do was to send me out the correct one (charging to my visa card) and allow credit for the wrong one upon it's return. And the correct cam was around $85 more than the other one. Being stuck, I agreed. They rushed it out and it was installed. Now, to test drive. Smooth idle, good. .. performance (mind you, this is at 6000 foot elevation) fair. Not great, but not bad. Pretty much as it was with the old cam. We played with the timing a bit, but it never really made that much difference. I'm still going to experiment with the vacuum advance, switching it from ported vacuum to manifold vacuum to see if that makes any difference. Back in Phoenix (1200 foot level) much better than Flagstaff (6000 foot) but again, pretty much same as stock. While I would definitely say that this is not the final verdict, the preliminary verdict is: No noticeable difference. The RR does run better, but I don't know if it's the valve job, or cam. And the difference that I DO notice is so slight that I would NOT recommend changing to this cam for better performance. Again, this could change, depending on my testing with the vacuum advance. The heroes of my cam ordeal: British Pacific! (Shameless plug: great people, helpful, speedy service, reasonable prices, CALL 1-800-554-4133) They rushed extra parts to me as we came across bad things, provided the head bolt spec's (I have a book now) rushed out the 2nd set of valley pan and timing cover gaskets (to do the cam again). After a very tactful but stern letter to Crane Cams, they called me to inform me that they'll pay for the 2nd set of gaskets needed and the labor for doing the cam the 2nd time. Even though they made the initial error, they made it right as best they were able. I'd recommend them! (Now to dig up all those receipts!) I'll post more on this (cam) as I experiment with it. BTW, I used the RR to tow the 109 back from Flagstaff. On a long mountain hill, the 109 slowed to around 7-15 miles per hour (no speedometer) when towing the RR, and the RR slowed to around 30-35 when towing the 109. But, the RR was loaded with 3 kids myself and a dog, the 109 was loaded with several guns, tools, jack, and a complete turbo V6 Buick engine in the back. Disclaimer: This was my experience. Your "milage" may vary. Thanks for the bandwidth. Please feel free to e-mail of you have any questions. Dave Brown debrown@srp.gov #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Mon Dec 4 14:08:43 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:08:43 -0500 (EST) From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Subject: 1970 IIA for Sale If Santa is looking to replace his Sleigh, I've got the toy he needs. I have decided to sell my 1970 IIA, which being a nice poppy red should make a wonderful replacement for Santa. It is a straight forward IIA, it has been invited to be on display for the last two years in the local mall where is ususally stands out amongst a bunch of MGAs and E types. I've owned her for 4 years and driven it daily to work for two of those years. London, Ontario is located about 2 hours north east of Detroit and 2 hours from Buffalo, New York for those of you in the States. Depending on timing and other arrangements we are still looking for a road trip over the Christmas holidays perhaps meeting 1/2 way or more. I'm asking $3000. Canadian and may go lower but I would like to take out the back seats and perhaps trade back the high ratio diffs. If is helps I think that $3000 Cnd is $2160US today. Happy Holidays Jay Kirkpatrick '55 Series I '58 Series II '70 Series IIA jkirkpat@acs.ryerson.ca From "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Mon Dec 4 14:22:04 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:22:04 -0500 (EST) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: 88 RoofRacks... Howdy all, does anyone have a good source for aftermarket full length roof racks for a S.III 88", relatively cheaply? By that I mean not Rovers North pricing... thnx in advance, steve _________________________________ |_______|_______|_______|_______| "Moose" | ____________ | | \\ '73 III 88" | / | \ | | \\ ________ | | | | | | \\ | | | \______|_____/ |______|_______\\___|________|__ |___________________|_______________|---------------\ | [] [] [] | | 0 |) | |--] | | _| / OOOOO | | OOOOO |__ |_|____I OO o o OO ___|_______________|___ OO o o OO ____| 0 OO o 0 o OO OO o 0 o OO OO o OO "Tread Lightly" OO o OO OOOOO OOOOO Florida Rover Canvas Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu (813) 874-5391 (813) 253-0905 (Work) From "Gerald" Mon Dec 4 14:47:45 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 14:47:45 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Headlight Guards for Disco's On 4 Dec 95 at 11:48, Keith Morehouse-WB9TIY wrote: > Does anybody know of a source (preferably NA - but anywhere will do) > of polycarbonate, lexan or other roost-proof material HEADLIGHT AND > FOGLIGHT COVERS for Disco's (95/96 MY) ?? The U.K. Discovery accessory catalog has clear headlight protecters. Don't recall what they are made off. Don't have catalog with me to give part number. Do U.K. Disco's have differently shaped headlights? If not these might work. I like them better than the metal grids. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From 04 95 Dec EST 1916 Date: 04 Dec 95 16:07:36 EST From: Subject: Roof Racks Land Rover Owners are lucky in having so many companies catering to our needs (whims?) when it come to roof racks. Brownchurch, Bearmarch, Land Rover's own equipment etc. Over here in the USA we have some but not all of the products. Have any of you inspected or bought the LiteRacs roof rack? I'm interested in any comments good bad or ugly on quality of construction, design, problems encountered in use etc. While I have no plans to mount the unit permanently on the vehicle I would like to be able to mount spots on the rack CT/La Ruta Maya style. And while we're at it please comment on any other roof rack products. Thanks Chris_Browne@us014-boston-minet.ccmail.compuserve.com Brit in Boston 95 Discovery I wave and go off road. From "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Mon Dec 04 13:38:39 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 13:38:39 PST From: "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Subject: compressed air source hello all! not recommended (by me), but submitted as food for thought; one idea i saw for air pressure for off roading involved a custom bumper (of the 'tube' type) fitted w/ a connector for an air hose. seems the chap had a custom bumper made with a tube as if an air pressure vessel, and simply pumped it up @ the service station when convenient before air'ed-down off roading, plugging the hose into the bumper to re-air when returning to pavement. very convenient, but i'd wouldn't want to be around (spotting?) were he to slip into something solid whilst under full pressure. don't remember how much pressure he used, but the air volume was apparently adequate for airing up 4 slightly larger than average tires. this guy was the sort that lived out in the Sierras where arrow-hunted bear meat is still considered a staple (only in season, of course, Mr. warden!), not the sort to be concerned about trifles like vehicular regulations and the such, so i wouldn't dare speak for the legalities of driving public highways with a compressed air cylinder for a bumper... (i know even SCUBA tanks are regulated by our Dept. of Motor Vehicles as it's assumed they will be transported by auto.) ciaou, e From Karim El-Fishawy Mon Dec 04 14:22:30 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 14:22:30 -0800 From: Karim El-Fishawy Subject: Buying or Selling a used Land Rover? Just wanted to let people know about a great service on the Web that makes buying and selling used Land Rovers a snap. Classifieds2000 (http://www.Classifieds2000.com) is a free public service that actually does your shopping for you. You simply specify the type of Land Rover you are looking for (including model, year, price range, mileage, body style, transmission...) and every time another user inputs a Land Rover onto the system meeting your criteria you are notified via email. Every morning you will have a brand new listing of Land Rovers matching your search criteria. The feature in Classifieds2000 is called "Cool-Notify" and it is actually a really neat way to shop. Plus, if you are selling your car, you can list your ad for free on Classifieds2000. http://www.classifieds2000.com | _____ | ___/__|__\__| (__ ______ __)= ooo ______(O)_____(O)________ ------- End of Forwarded Message From m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Mon Dec 4 18:21:35 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:21:35 -0500 (EST) From: m8f@ornl.gov (M Scott Fugate) Subject: 67 IIA for Sale in Tennessee I was delighted to learn of two new Series Land Rovers in my fair city of Knoxville, Tennessee USA last week. This brings the grand total up to six in a town of that's the third largest in the state. Unfortunately one of these new found local Rovers is for sale. The owner just finished restoring it, and then decided to go back to medical school. No time and no money for him for a few years, so the Rover has to go. It's a '67 IIA with only 38,152 original miles. Seems it was bought new by a Texas oil man for his wife, and she didn't ever get the knack of the gear shifting. The Rover was stored in a barn and only used occasionally by the husband to check on his wells. The current owner says when he picked it up, the inside of the left front wing was coated in old crude. Frame is said to be perfect, and interior is original in great shape. The current owner repainted it (Limestone over Marine Blue) and rebuilt the brakes, etc. Asking price is a pretty steep $13,500. Could be a good opportunity for someone who wants a Series Rover that's "ready to go", I guess. Owner's name is Carl Wheeler, phone number 423-522-0619. All standard disclaimers apply. I haven't seen this truck, and only have talked to the owner once, but if somebody is serious about buying it, I would be willing to go check it out and offer an opinion before you travel. YMMV. Scott Fugate 1970 IIA 1989 RR BT From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 04 16:31:33 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 16:31:33 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Horror story FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Horror story John writes (in reference to my cam changing post.) ========================================================================= Reply-To: johannes@uiuc.edu Thast was an amazing story indeed. So you had to pull everything to get that cam in and out twice? Aaargh. I have a new Disco and am curious about what sort of milage you had on your RR engine when you had this worn lifter and lobe problem? What was your oil changing pattern like. Was the inside pretty clean? I am a 2500 mile changer and am just curious about what I can look forward to. I also plan to go to synthetic 5-50 at the next change or so. Thanks a lot, John Friedman ======================================================================== John, and others; I bought the RR about 3 months ago for $8,500. A real bargain, right? Well... As they say, "Caveat emptor". I got it for that price for several reasons, mainly, the lack of care that was very apparent. But, my desire was for a capable yet comfortable trail vehicle. The lack of wax, dry (cracking) leather seats, broken seat switches, torn carpet in the rear seat, cheapie "Audiovox" CD player, etc... didn't really bother me. My only concern was the "lifter" noise. I could tell, just by looking in the oil fill hole that it had NOT been maintained as claimed, and assumed that possibly the lifter was just plugged up. The RR has (now) 48K on the odometer, but an additional 50K on the vehicle. (Or so the story goes! The speedometer was replaced around 50K.) So, roughly 100K on a neglected engine. (Trans still looks good, as does the diff fluid.) All in all, I still think I got a good deal. I still have less than 10K into her, have added a rear Lock-Right, seat switch, (still need one) removed the front spoiler and rear spot lights (for clearance on trails) and don't have to cringe when I run into a bush, or get dinged from a rock. I'm happier this way! ;-) BTW, this RR had previously NEVER been off-road. Totally spotless undercarriage, NO rust (Arizona) no scratches or dings, (just faded, lack of wax.) New tyres. So, let that be a lesson for us all... FREQUENT OIL CHANGES! And the V8 should last a good, long time. Neglect her, and you'll most definitely regret it! To me, the 5-50 sounds like quite a large range. I'm no oil expert, but the more the "range", the more "thingies" (told you I'm no expert) that they have to add to allow it to do this, and the more "thingies", the quicker the oil breaks down. I'd rather see someone go with 20-50 rather than 5-50. I live in Phoenix (78 degrees today) where it's very mild, and I use straight 30 or 40. Maybe this isn't the best, and if not, someone please educate me. I have 2 cases of "Golden Spectrol" 20W50 motorcycle oil that I'm going to start using at my next oil change (Synthetic). Any comments on this? Please? So, everyone... change your oil!! OFTEN!!! #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Mike Dryfoos Mon Dec 4 11:10:44 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:10:44 -0800 From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: oil warning light vs. pressure gauge A question on my '71 SIIA. Is it better to believe my oil pressure warning light or my oil pressure gauge? The oil pressure warning light is coming on at idle. The oil pressure gauge installed by the previous owner, and it reads around 28-30 psi at idle. The light goes out when I increase revs to the point that the gauge reads 40 psi. Idle speed is smooth and normal. The gauge reads 50-60 psi when moving. The crankcase is full, and the oil was changed about 300 miles ago. Earlier this year I would see the warning light come on when the gauge read about 20 psi or below, I feel reasonably comfortable that the gauge is accurate. What would be causing the sensor that triggers the light to object to 30 psi at idle? From Kevan Shaw Lighting Design Mon Dec 4 23:30:11 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 23:30:11 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Lighting Design Subject: Oil everywhere but in the sump! I have an '82 88" diesel which runs fine except it has a habit of chucking lots of oil out the breather on the rocker cover, particularly on long runs. The local Land-Rover Gurus keep winding tape round the breather cap to no avail. The problem is longstanding, i.e. ever since I have owned the thing, the engine runs well, starts well and only shows a very little smoke at the oil filler, so I guess there is a bit of blow-by at the piston rings however it was recently compression tested and pronounced within operating limits. Anyone any ideas as to what could be a cure? Thanks, Kevan Shaw From John Brabyn Mon Dec 4 17:50:35 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:50:35 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Results of new cam in the Range Rover. Thanks Dave for telling us all about this -- it might save us a lot of effort in the future! Much appreciated John Brabyn 89RR From TONY YATES Tue Dec 5 10:03:59 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:03:59 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Horror story OK all you oil gurus out there, here are some slippery questions (ha ha): Is synthetic oil worth the extra money? Is it worth it in an old and slightly tired motor? Is it OK to use in a new motor? Regarding non synthetics, how do you pick a "good" oil? They seem to vary enormously in cost but all claim to exceed all known specifications. Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||________[PAMELA]_______|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| ----- ----- ===================================================================== From a-robw@microsoft.com Mon Dec 4 18:15:34 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:15:34 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: Hi-Lift and Disco Yea, that thought crossed my mind, too. What would be neat would be a strap or bracket or something that you could attach to the tire so you could just jack up the tire, sort of like what a tow truck uses, maybe. Another idea, I've heard of is to replace the plastic trim piece under the doors with a steel square tube and jack from the side. ---------- From Wdcockey@aol.com Mon Dec 4 21:53:13 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:53:13 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: oil warning light vs. pressure gauge I'd replace the sender, or find another gague you can temporailly plumb in place of the sender and go with the majority vote. From Wdcockey@aol.com Mon Dec 4 21:52:50 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 21:52:50 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Series II Trivia (Valuable Knowledge) Here is the collective wisdom and my analysis of the responses to: >What are 4 standard features and 1 option which differentiate a 1958-60 >Series II from the later Series IIA, and are can be seen without lifting the >hood (bonnet)? LR transitioned from the Series II to the IIA spec through 61 until the announcement of the IIA with the 2.25 diesel and significant changes to 2.25 petrol in late 61, so 61s with mixed features are seen. II exclusives -Valence panel between front bumper and grille - square rather than rounded on IIA & III (Duncan Brown). -Horn button on stalk, changed to steering wheel center in mid 60 (Duncan Brown). -One piece front doors - some but not all II SWs and hardtops. Im only aware of on 58 and 59, both 88 and 109 (Duncan Brown, Jeremy Bartlett). -Ventilator hinges on bulkhead - attached to lids with bolts rather than rivets. -Ventilator controls - knobs rather than levers, changed to levers in mid 60. -Inspection cover over transmission in front floor. Access panel which swings away. Used 58 -60. -Vehicle (chassis) number - on right front spring horn and plate on bulkhead. Series II first digit is 1, and no suffix letter. Fourth digit is last digit of year. Series IIA first digit is 2, have suffix letter A thru H, and no year indicator. (Ben Smith). -Optional flashers (turn signals) switch - lever on dash acc. panel for IIs with horn button on stalk. Definitive info not avail. -Pendent steering arms (located on top of swivel balls)- claimed by several sources to be II exclusive, but listed in Series IIA parts book (Duncan Brown, Ben Smith). -Taillights -various Lucas, Wipac and Sparto used. Parts book indicates change with suffix B on non-NADA, dont know when changed in NADA. Not II exclusives -Headlights with chrome rims - used in North America through 67, dropped in 63 or so elsewhere with suffix B. This often confuses trans-Atlantic visitors and owners of recent imports. -Exhaust system exits through left front wheelhouse - used on diesels thru 75, also on 6 cyl. -Door locks with external pawl and lock cylinder attached to handle - used on early IIAs through 64? -IIA diesel have diesel badge on grille. II & IIA petrol dont have badge. -Prongs welded to rear corner cappings - used through at least 68 according to parts book. Ill be glad to discuss above with anyone, and will appreciate any additional info. Remember that parts get mixed over time. David Cockey 1960 II 88 SW 1960 II 88 PU (nee hardtop) 8/10 of 1959 II 88" SW From rmodica@east.pima.edu Mon Dec 04 20:19:24 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 20:19:24 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: Xmas Rovers Well, well, well. And I thought I was the only Crazy in the bunch. My front yard has my 109 outlined in 600 white lights with a lighted Santa in the driver's seat. We thought about doing it last year, but figured the neigbors would think us daft. (With three Land Rovers they prbably already do.) As soon as the lights came on several neighbors expressed delight. John's set up sounds like he can drive around all lit up. That should be something to see. On the serious side--. Last week I disconnected the battery cables in my Disco to clean off corrosion. Upon replacing the cables the radio needed rearming as expected (leave key on for one hour and reenter code), but the SRS light came on and the right hand S of the SRS blinks for a moment and then remains lit --as does the entire SRS display. Called the nearest dealer in Scottsdale (110 miles N) and asked for advice. Their reply - "Come up and have us connect you to our CDROM analyzer." "Can't you give me a hint over the phone?" "No, we have to connect you to the computer." "what about the black box codes?" "The Discos don't have a readout like the D-90s, come to our computer." Anyone have any ideas what's happened to my SRS? Rob Modica 1951 SI 80" 1960 SII109" Safari Tucson, AZ 1994 Disco 5spd "Casper" e-mail rmodica@east.pima.edu snail mail 6425 E. Hayne St. Tucson AZ 85710-4638 From a-robw@microsoft.com Mon Dec 4 20:04:09 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:04:09 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: Xmas Rovers/Blinky SRS lights On the serious side--. Last week I disconnected the battery cables in my Disco to clean off corrosion. Upon replacing the cables the radio needed rearming as expected (leave key on for one hour and reenter code), but the SRS light came on and the right hand S of the SRS blinks for a moment and then remains lit --as does the entire SRS display. Called the nearest dealer in Scottsdale (110 miles N) and asked for advice. Their reply - "Come up and have us connect you to our CDROM analyzer." "Can't you give me a hint over the phone?" "No, we have to connect you to the computer." "what about the black box codes?" "The Discos don't have a readout like the D-90s, come to our computer." Anyone have any ideas what's happened to my SRS? --------- For fear of this, or other strange things, happening to mine when I've ben working on the electrical stuff, I've always jumpered the battery to the electrical buss while fiddling with the wires so that the battery is always connected to the myriad of on-board computers. Let us know what you find out. I hope it's nothing serious. Does the (is there a) display under the passenger seat say anything? From "John C. White, III" Mon Dec 4 20:48:25 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:48:25 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery racks I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta Maya" video tape LRNA was (is?) mailing out to new owners. It mounts on the rain channel so there is no increase in the amount of weight you can carry. I too noticed the amount of stuff that it appeared the Camel Trophy Discoveries carried. We're probably right to assume that they can do this because the racks are mounted to the roll cages. One thing to consider too is that putting a lot of weight on the roof may alter the handling of the vehicle enough to be dangerous. By the way, I got my rack at a Land Rover dealership. Word to the wise: I called around to the local dealerships to get the best price. The prices I was quoted varied by over $200. (!) Cheers! John '95 Discovery At 10:11 04.12.95 -0500, GElam30092@aol.com wrote: >There are several ads. for racks (full-length, half-length) for the Discovery >in the LRO and LRW. Has anyone purchased an after-market product? What is [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >vehicle verify? >Gerry "He's ain't heavy... he's my brother" Elam From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 04 22:06:43 1995 Date: Mon, 04 Dec 95 22:06:43 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Help selecting a CB radio. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Help selecting a CB radio. I need to get a CB radio for trail runs, and need help selecting one that best suits my needs. I know NOTHING (well, very little anyway) about them. I only need it for talking to other trail members, and plan to use a 2-meter radio for longer distance (once I get my licence). Should I go with the basic $50 cobra small size, basic functions, or the larger size that has various functions for around $120? Should I get a power mike? Which antenna should I get? Any mounting locations or suggestions? They will be used mostly in a 1987 Range Rover, but may be used in a 1971 Land Rover as well. Thanks, Dave Brown debrown@srp.gov #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Dec 5 15:50:13 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:50:13 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:Oil.FAQ Tony asks something we've all pondered: > Is synthetic oil worth the extra money? > Is it worth it in an old and slightly tired motor? > Is it OK to use in a new motor? > > Regarding non synthetics, how do you pick a "good" oil? They seem to vary > enormously in cost but all claim to exceed all known specifications. Tony the best I can suggest is to read Ed Hackett's oil.faq found guess where :-) http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/RoverWeb/OilFAQ.html Thanks to Dixon and Ben for including one. There is other predominantly commercial oil stuff kicking around, but Ed's seems to explain in language even I can understand....... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Mon Dec 4 22:14:48 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:14:48 -0700 From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Discovery racks >From the Saftey Devices Catalog: Discovery 5 Door The five door Discovery superseded the three door as the main vehicle for the Camel Trophy. Consequently the five door version of the Discovery roll cage has been developed, providing full protection of the occupants but allowing access through the rear doors. The cage is similar to the two door, with backstays moved from the conventional position to run horizontally to the 'D' posts at the rear of the vehicle to allow maximum load space. Once again, the cage is phosphated and black polyester coated. It is necessary to specify if a Camel Trophy roof rack is to be used as this bolts to the cage through the vehicle roof. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ A diagonal brace can be added to the main hoop for Police specification or extreme off-road conditions. -Rick At 8:48 PM 12/4/95 -0800, John C. White, III wrote: >I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta >Maya" video tape LRNA was (is?) mailing out to new owners. It mounts on the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 32 lines)] >>vehicle verify? >>Gerry "He's ain't heavy... he's my brother" Elam From "John C. White, III" Mon Dec 4 22:45:46 1995 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:45:46 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: RE: Xmas Rovers/Blinky SRS lights According to the shop manual "In the event of a fault in the system the warning light will illuminate and begin modulating. The airbag diagnostic control unint logs the fault which can only be accessed using TestBook." (TestBook is a portable computer used by the mechanics. The drawing of it has what appears to be an ejected CD-ROM.) There is no indication anywhere that I can find about what might be wrong. I do notice however that there are a lot of warnings throughout this chapter. One reads, "Do not use electrical test equipment on the airbag harness or connectors. Tampering with or disconFrom Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Tue Dec 5 08:59:42 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:59:42 +0100 (MET) From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Subject: Volkswagen Oilfilters Hi folks, last week, Roy Wassili doubted if the Volkswagen Oilfilter really matches the LR one. I got to the autoparts dealer again this Saturday and checked carefully again. It is really similar to that I got from the British autoparts shop. If anyone is intersted to use it, too. It's the oilfilter mounted on the newer VW diesels (nonturbo) like Golf/Rabbit and Passat. Chears, Franz -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From "barnett childress" Tue Dec 5 7:27:41 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 7:27:41 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello All, First, could someone please send me Dec 2 & Dec 5 digests somehow I only got the first few listings. Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff, and possibly the front diff but its to hard to hear. Anyone else out there have this same sound? Is this normal for LR's? I was told that LR drive trains are built with a lot of slop on purpose and that this is normal. A friend of mine says it sounds like ring and pinion engagement. Backlash should be set correctly it was checked/reset when RN put in ARB air locker's for me. Any opinions or advice would be greatly appreciated. If any of you other D90 owners have this sound and this is "normal" I would shure like to know! Worried and wondering! Barnett EMAIL Barnett Childress@eng@emchop1 95 D90 still unnamed From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Dec 05 08:03:11 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 08:03:11 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Barnett Childress wrote: When I let out the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. 95 D90 still unnamed -That very well could be the problem! Sorry, I couldn't resist. Dave '72 SIII From Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com 5 95 Dec -0500 1908 Date: 5 Dec 95 08:28:01 -0500 From: Mark.Kraieski@mailport.delta-air.com Subject: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco, Manual When coasting to a stop with the clutch in, my '96 NAS Disco sometimes makes a rattling sound in the drivetrain. This seems to be most noticeable after driving for half an hour or more (everything warmed up) and appears to be coming from the front axle assembly. It is related to motion, not bumps or turns. What is odd is that the first Disco I test drove made this sound as well. The salesman and I agreed something wasn't right and parked it at the service area and got another one. This one seemed fine and I now own it. After about 500 miles it started make the exact same sound. The sound only occurs when coasting to a stop and then only when speed pretty slow. Under power the sound goes away. Anyone else out there experience this? I wouldn't expect it to happen with an automatic. Given it was present in 2 different Disco's, I suppose things are as they should be. There are no other odd symptoms and otherwise the vehicle performs fine. Given only 1 out of 20 NAS Disco's have manual transmissions, I'd love to hear from some of the rest of you if you have experienced this. Mark From Ross Leidy Tue Dec 05 09:00:43 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 09:00:43 0500 From: Ross Leidy Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On 12/05/95 at 07:27 AM, barnett childress penned: >Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out >the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound >when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff, and >possibly the front diff but its to hard to hear. >Anyone else out there have this same sound? Is this normal for LR's? I was >told that LR drive trains are built with a lot of slop on purpose and that >this is normal. A friend of mine says it sounds like ring and pinion >engagement. Backlash should be set correctly it was checked/reset when RN >put in ARB air locker's for me. I found the same thing both with my D90 the demo D90 that I drove before buying mine. It is possible to avoid the "clunk", but you really have to be gentle with the clutch; not an easy feat with the beastie. ______________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Senior Software Engineer Secant Technologies, Inc. 95 NAS D90 #3032 From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 05 Dec 95 09:37:01 EST From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Strange Noises I have a 90RR that quite often makes a loud clunk also. It seems to occur if the transmission is trying to change gears, just as I let off the accelerator. When I first heard this, I thought that my transmission or drive train was about to go. That was 60,000 miles ago. Everyone I have talked to says that this is normal, but it still makes me uncomfortable. I'm sure that part of the reason the drivetrain is so overbuilt is to help absorb some of this slop, that is designed in. I haven't noticed this problem in the SerIII. If it is doing it, I can't hear it over the whining overdrive, noisy gearbox, rattling body panels, tire noise, wind noise..... Rob ------------------- | | | | _ _ ____|____ _ _ | Rob Dennis O |[___|>>>>>>>>>|___]| O 73363.427@Compuserve.com \____===_=====_===____/ Atlanta, GA USA |oo |(_)###(_)| oo| (404) 875-4537 | | ### | | | | ####### | | 1972 SerIII 88 |_____|_#######_|_____| 1990 RangeRover [_______________________] |\/| |\/| Send By: Rob Dennis 73363.427@Compuserve.com On 05-Dec-1995 From russ burns Tue Dec 5 07:15:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 07:15:40 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty I have a friend who bought a used R-Rover, had it inspected, and the whole vehicle repaired. New tailgate, upper and lower, rocker panels, floor boards, almost everything except the hood.... All at no cost. Russ burns At 08:19 AM 12/4/95 -0500, RICHARD COLEMAN wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Greetings, [ truncated by lro-digester (was 42 lines)] > Rick > 90 RR(the money pit) Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Tue Dec 05 16:26:07 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:26:07 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Re: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco, Manual >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] >experienced this. >Mark Mark, I'm driving a 5speed manual gearboxed '95 Discovery and do hear these rattling noise sometimes. Especially when driving off-road and the wheels start digging. If I hit the clutch pedal fast I can hear these rattling noises. IMO this happens when the wheels suddenly stop spinning( due to hitting the clutch pedal and the high resistance of the mud/sand there still is some momentum in the drive train. I believe that this is very Roverish and therefore not abnormal. Never heard these noises on-road though! ( Have heard this noise on a lot of other LR's too !:-) ) LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From GElam30092@aol.com Tue Dec 5 10:33:03 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:33:03 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Racks and misc. You wrote: "Once again, the cage is phosphated and black polyester coated. It is necessary to specify if a Camel Trophy roof rack is to be used as this bolts to the cage through the vehicle roof." How many polyesters did they kill to obtain the coating? But seriously... did Safety Devices mention any pricing? I keep threatening to request a catalog but as a member of the Lazy Buggers set, I never seem to get around to it! Any futher info is appreciated... Gerry "Rack em up" Elam From "Anthony Verriello" 05 1995 Dec GMT 1910 Date: 05 Dec 1995 10:39:10 GMT From: "Anthony Verriello" Subject: D90 Engine light Has any NAS D90 owner out there experienced problems with their Engine light illuminating. Mine is on its second occurrence in 3000 Miles...last time it was a malfunction in the exhaust/emission systems. I dont mind glitches but I have to admit this one annoys me since it deprives me of the use of my beast until I can get it in for servicing. The dealership claims I can drive it for short periods like this....... Also I heard someone mention a diagnostic display on D90's???????? BTW, NAS D90 SW is a thing of beauty, Im trying to convince myself two D90s actually makes sense! verriello_anthony@jpmorgan.com +-+--+-@ |_|_/|__\__ | _ |' |_ |} (Dagwood...named for his voracious appetite, =(_)=+==(_)' petrol not sandwiches) NAS '94 black D90 (happiness is pulling a jeep out of a hole) Pre-requisite anal disclaimer to follow::: The views and opinions expressed here are solely the views of myself and do not imply any opinion or view of my employer. From David Rosenbaum Tue Dec 5 07:47:33 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 07:47:33 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: re:The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, barnett childress wrote: >(snip) clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound > when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff. > Anyone else out there have this same sound? Is this normal for LR's? I was > told that D90 owners have this sound and this is "normal." Dear Barnett: The sound is common and, I believe, normal. I asked about it soon after I got my '94 and was told that it was usual by Seattle Land Rover. Also, during the "Wheels '95" gathering hosted by Seattle Land Rover last summer (great trail riding and feast!), I KNEW when I would need to clutch by the "clunk" of D-90s ahead of me, and could hear those behind me as they passed the same spot later. Best wishes, David From "Mark Talbot" Tue Dec 5 16:03:04 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 16:03:04 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RR power steering boxes All, I need to replace the power steering box on my 1988 RR. The thing used to wonder, but now it seems to be getting worse, even to the point where the wife has mentioned it ! Has anyone replaced their PSB, how long did it take, I just read an old LRO article where the guy said it took a few hours. That would seem about right, and the fact that the thing has been leaking power steering fluid for the past year, the bolt should be easy to remove ! Would you guys reccomend a rebuilt or exchange or new. I got a few quotes from the UK for rebuilt factory units that work out about $300, new are $600 ! Mark From crash@merl.com Tue Dec 5 10:31:21 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:31:21 -0500 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Synthetic in a landie my Disco (41,000 miles and counting) has been on Mobil-1 and Castrol Syntec since the 1000-mile change. It had the head off once, for a warranty bit... the mechanic was amazed at how clean and new everything looked. "It just sparkled"... Synthetics don't turn to tar on a cold day. The engine starts much easier and oil pressure comes up much faster. Synthetics also stick to the metal better, and provide better lubrication. Synthetics handle high temperatures (i.e. bottom of the piston) much better than conventional oils. I'd be a little wary about putting synthetics into an old vehicle; synthetics, being better lubricators, tend to do several things: 1) they don't swell seals as much- which means an oil seal that _was_ marginal can quickly become an oil leak... ditto leaky gaskets. Make sure all the bolts are tight... 2) They retain pourability much better- so even a pinhole leak (insignificant with regular oil) will be a major leak with synthetic. 3) They are _much_ better detergents than regular dino-blood. An engine with lots of deposits will shed a lot of crap into the new synthetic oil in the first thousand miles or so. You *may* end up with a clogged filter, clogged intake screen, or worse (clogged oil pump and broken oil pump shaft). This isn't to say you can't switch over at 80,000 miles- I did switch a 86 Subaru Turbo 4WD with 70,000 miles from Castrol GTX (changed every 4000, I bought the car new) to Mobil-1 synthetic. The mobil-1 freed a sticking tappet and made the car start much better on cold winter days (because of the much-improved pour point). I made sure all the gasket bolts were snugged down before I switched over, and didn't have any major leakage problems. Just be careful- and you *may* want to make your first oil+filter change with synthetic about a thousand miles long, then two thousand, then five thousand (which is what I run my Mobil-1 for). This is to avoid the crapshedding factor I mentioned above. That subaru engine hadn't been neglected or allowed to foul; I don't think the same is true of your Rangie. Oh- among synthetics, there is a certain amount of "tailoring" that's done. Redline and most of the motorcycle synthetics are tailored for high-temperature racing use. Mobil-1 is tailored toward extreme cold weather/transcontinental truck use (i.e. vehicles expected to run for hundreds of thousands of miles). Castrol Syntec is somewhere in the middle, probably the equivalent of "consumer white bread". AMSoil seems to be similar to Redline but not quite as extremely aimed at the racing community. [ If you really want the numbers, someone had recently posted the actual pour-point and extreme-pressure ratings for about a hundred different oils (including the synthetics). The above is from memory. ] Right now I'm basically running synthetic lube everywhere except the grease in the U-joints (and I'll switch that over when I do my next chassis lube). Engine, transmission, transfer case, both diffs, all are the appropriate Mobil-1 lube (or Syntec- the dealer didn't have Mobil-1 in stock, but he did have Castrol Syntec so that's what's in the engine now. It was part of the service and I let it go at that). -Bill Yerazunis From michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Tue Dec 5 11:26:56 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 11:26:56 -0500 From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster Hello again, I have been out of the net for about a year now but I'm back, with Rudolph.(My 109 PU). David Bobeck wrote: Also noticed one front horn >has been hit and is tweaked a little towards the inside of the frame. >THought about using my HI-lift to try to bend it back, any ideas? Should I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Dave Bobeck >72 SIII "Green Car" When I had the bodywork redone last year on Rudolph, we noticed at one point that the frame was crooked. Both front horns sort of tilted to the side. According to the shape of the wing, it looked like it had a big hit on the side. The rover drove very straight and I didn't notice anything strange in the handling (I do remember the gallons of sweat I lost when installing the new front springs,though). Anyway, we had to fix it. With chains, Hi-Lift, two big trees, a 10 pound sledgehammer and a 4 ft long 4X4 solid oak piece of wood, it was possible to get the frame as straight as new. If you want to do this kind of work, make sure that all your chains and attachment points are solid. The strengths and pressures are enormous in this situation. Try to "see" in advance how the frame or horn will react to the Hi-Lift and do'nt be afraid to use the sledgehammer. It's another way to see if your frame is solid or not!! David also asks: Also planning to galvanise, so any tips on that are welcome and >appreciated. Thanks for listening I have never galvanised a frame before, but I did have all the bits and pieces of Rudolph regalvanised last year.The place I had it done told me that they could do a frame without any problems. This, in short, is what you need to know: 1) Find a galvanising shop that has big enough "baths" for your frame 2) Check for the price. Here, in Quebec, it's about 0.75$ per pound Comes up to about 200-250$ for a frame. 3) Sandblast the frame completely. There shouldn't be any paint left anywhere on the frame. They won't galvanise a piece of metal that has 1 sq.inch of paint on it. It pollutes their acid and zinc baths. 4) leave the outer suspension bushings inside the frame. After the zinc-coating, all you have to do is to remove them (I use a rat-tail electric saw and metal chisels) 5) Make holes in the frame so that the zinc can come out easily 6) Put bolts through the holes that you do not want blocked-out 7) Remember that the zinc will give an "extra-coat" to the frame. Try to avoid having to grind or sand down in some areas (steering relay) 8) While being there, have a few bits and parts galvanised. You can basically have anything in steel galvanised. Don't have the door hinges galvanised, though, it makes a terrible job. For the different hinges and tailgate apparitus, they seize with the zinc. You have to heat them with a propane torch and work'em out slowly. 9) Rust is not important. The acid bath will dissolve it all. Remember: no paint. That's about it for the galvanising tips, from what I know, check with your galvanising shop. To all who read this until the end, I apologize for the long post. I hope that this will be helpfull. Michel Bertrand 1963 109 IIA (Rudolph) 1968 109 IIA SW-NADA (in the works) 1973 88 III 21st century project Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Tue Dec 5 09:24:14 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:24:14 -0700 From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: Re: Racks and misc. At 10:33 AM 12/5/95 -0500, GElam30092@aol.com wrote: >You wrote: "Once again, the cage is phosphated and black polyester coated. >It is necessary to specify if a Camel Trophy roof rack is to [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Any futher info is appreciated... >Gerry "Rack em up" Elam PRICES IN POUNDS: I think the cage is on the order of $669, Optional diagonal, $35, Load guard, $85, Roof Rack mounts $24. Can't find the listing for the actual roof rack. D110 Long Roof rack is listed for $427.48. Rovers North carries the Safety Devices stuff. May want to give them a call for US prices. I'll bring the catalog and price sheets to the next couple events. I'm going to try and make Berkley but have a party I have to attend later that evening so will have to see how my day goes. As far as Hollister on Sat. or Sun. Really just waiting on the weather and how I feel when I get up in the morning. I got my catalog by calling Safety Devices direct at 011 44 1353 624624. If you are in the Los Gatos neighbor hood and just want to check it out feel free to stop by. (408) 354-2931. -Rick From russ burns Tue Dec 5 08:45:57 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:45:57 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: D90 Engine light My light come on when I hit a bump.... I have the dealer trying to fis this as the warranty is fading fast. With normal check engine malfunctions the code is on an LED display next to the computer. The code are listed in the service manual. I uses the check engine light as a troubleshooting tool, not "severe damage" indicator. It will detect misfire, backfire, and other anomilies. Russ Burns At 10:39 AM 12/5/95 GMT, Anthony Verriello wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Has any NAS D90 owner out there experienced problems with their Engine light [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] >Pre-requisite anal disclaimer to follow::: >The views and opinions expressed here are solely the views of myself and do not >imply any opinion or view of my employer. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From John Brabyn Tue Dec 5 09:49:59 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:49:59 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: RR power steering boxes On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Mark Talbot wrote: > I need to replace the power steering box on my 1988 RR. The thing used to ... > Would you guys reccomend a rebuilt or exchange or new. I got a few quotes > from the UK for rebuilt factory units that work out about $300, new are $600 Mark -- where do you get the new ones for $600?? In the US they seem closer to $1000! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From "John Y. Liu" Tue Dec 05 10:06:18 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:06:18 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Can Hi-Lift Be Used On Most Trucks? The current hi-lift discussion has me wondering if a hi-lift can be used on a Range Rover or Disco or other truck without the easilt accessed frame and solid steel bumper of a Land Rover (or J**p)? I also have a Ford F250 and can't see anywhere one could use a hi-lift without roaching up something pretty good. I also can't see where one could place the lifting jaw of a hi-lift on a RR or Disco without destroying a sill or sheet metal bumper. Have folks actually made much use of hi-lifts on RRs or Discos? Where do you place it? (Assuming you haven't added a bull bar or receiver.) From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1913 Date: 05 Dec 95 13:18:56 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Oil Change I am about to take my 1995 RR 4.0 SE in for its 7500 mile service.What is the wisdom of the Net regarding changing to Mobil 1 15-50wt oil. Is it too soon; will it starting leaking; is this the proper weight for Florida???? Thanks, Benjamin G. Newman Ser 11A;66 pick up:66 88" 3 dr;109 NADA wagon;95 RR From Marcus Haas Tue Dec 5 18:33:42 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:33:42 +0000 (GMT) From: Marcus Haas Subject: Recent postings about models... ...could someone post the address of Triple C? What kind of business are they specifically? Marcus. From Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Tue Dec 5 13:36:52 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:36:52 -0500 From: Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Subject: Oil everywhere but in the sump! Dear Kevan, Yep, sounds like bores/rings (80,000 miles if not abused) or valve guides/seals (whenever they feel like it). PLEASE do not obstruct the breather with tape!!!! backpressure will blow the main bearing seals, if nothing else... you'll have lots more oil going over the road. Why not simply construct a breather tube that goes somewhere (even to a bottle!) from the rocker cover. Did YOURS pass the Euro-regs for emmission?? Grahams From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 10:37:22 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:37:22 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: drivetrain clunking Barnett Childress wrote: > Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out > the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound > when I push in the clutch. This sound is coming from the rear diff, and > possibly the front diff but its to hard to hear. I hear the same thing from my (automatic) '95 Discovery's drivetrain. This occurs inevitably at low speeds when I've just begun to accelerate, i.e., when power comes on, or when I lift off on the throttle. I also assume it's normal drivetrain slop -- there are a lot of pieces whirling around underneath and they can't all fit together too tightly. BTW, my Discovery's gone in three times now for some loud creaking noise coming from the hinge corner of the rear door. Symes LR in Pasadena have tightened body mounts, removed the panel in the rear door, tightened the exhaust heat shields, etc. But there's still the metal-on-metal grinding or creaking whenever the body flexes. The techs at the dealer say they've never heard it. I suppose I need to take them for a ride some time before the rear door falls off. Anyone know of any adjustments to the hinges, seals, or latches I could do? Thanks for helping me not go mad. Off-road, of course, I have so much fun I forget all about it. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 05 10:41:27 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:41:27 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Discovery racks In message <199512050449.UAA12894@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta > Maya" video tape LRNA was (is?) mailing out to new owners. It mounts on the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > carried. We're probably right to assume that they can do this because the > racks are mounted to the roll cages. Unclear. Most racks on Series Land Rovers just bolt to the rain channel. That's how mine is attached (actually only clamped to the rain gutter--and it's a full length). I've carried hundreds of pounds of stuff up there without any damage. > One thing to consider too is that > putting a lot of weight on the roof may alter the handling of the vehicle > enough to be dangerous. Yes it does and you have to be careful. No sharp turns. I found that with good shocks and new springs, a fully loaded Series 88" with, oh, about 300 lbs in the roof rack develops an uncontrolable side to side roll at about 53mph. The only way to regain control is to slow down below that speed, and the roll hits suddenly with positive feedback. You will also have to remember when off roading that on side hills, you will tend to roll over at a much smaller angle than a Rover without such loading. In the Camel Trophy, they are rarely trying to move at highway speeds so the risk is acknowledged. Besides, on the CT, you don't have much choice on how much you bring. A lot of the equipment load is mandatory. If I recall correctly, each person is allowed 60lbs for food, clothing and personal gear for the 2 week trip. (Let's see, usiung my backpacking rule of thumb, 2lb per day for food is 28 lbs, How much clothing, toiletries, etc can I cram in 32 lbs?...) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 05 10:46:50 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 10:46:50 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Help selecting a CB radio. Dave Brown asked: > Which antenna should I get? Any mounting locations or suggestions? Personally I'd suggest not getting a centerload antenna that has a plastic piece conneting two metal ones. (Standard Radio Shack 3/8 wave) I've had at least 3 break on me off road. Branches love to snap them off at the plastic part. So I'd recommend using any of the one piece antennas. I've had good luch with the the Firestick types. (Mine is a 5', mounted to the rear of the roofrack, with a spring on the base of the antenna) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Tue Dec 5 15:07:23 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:07:23 +0100 (MET) From: Franz.Parzefall@lrz.tu-muenchen.de Subject: clutch & clunk (was: re:The Land Rover Own...) Hello All, Barnett Childress writes: > Second, I have a question about diff's and drive trains. When I let out > the clutch on my D90 I hear a "clunk" sound. I also get a similar sound [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > engagement. Backlash should be set correctly it was checked/reset when RN > put in ARB air locker's for me. I have the sound just when stepping off the clutch pedal. Sounds like a bit of play in the diffs. It's not there if I get of the pedal gently, which supports the theory. I don't know if the sound is ok, but at least it's common. -- Franz Parzefall tbr1102@hpmail.lrz-muenchen.de _______ [____|\_\== [_-__|__|_-] exmil. 110 2.5D ___.._(0)..._.(0)__.._ From abalser@merlin.salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) Tue Dec 5 10:54:46 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:54:46 -0900 From: abalser@merlin.salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) Subject: oil opinion and cooling question Hello all, I think the benefits of synthetics depend in part on the circumstances. In extreme temperatures (hot or cold), I think it can make quite a difference. Apparently the chemical bonds in a molecule of synthetic oil help it maintain its viscosity over a far broader temperature range. Case in point; yesterday I had to add a quart to my SerIII. I had a quart of synthetic 15w-50, and a quart of regular 10w-30. Because I run synthetics, I wanted to stick with them, so in spite of the 15w-50 rating, and the fact that it is deep winter here, I went ahead with it. It was -52F at my cabin near Bearflanks (brrrr!!) when I poured it, and although it poured something like honey, it did come out of the bottle o.k. In contrast, the 10w-30 nonsynthetic was like rock candy in the bottle. Other testaments for synthetics come second hand. I have heard stories from folks who rebuild engines telling me that the few occasions they have looked at engines that have run on synthetics their whole life, they appear almost as pristine as they were at day one. Also, synthetics supposedly cling to engine parts better, making starts less traumatic - another cold weather advantage. In spite of the expense, I also use synthetic gear oil. The difference in getting all that gear oil in the Salisbury diff and transfer case moving between regular and synthetic is astounding. Another way to look at the cost difference is to consider that you need fewer oil changes with synthetic. Assuming you aren't leaking or burning too much, in which case you are always adding oil, the cost of synthetic, in the long term, is not much more than regular oil. Just be sure to keep up with changing the filter. On a different note; I have been toying with the idea of by-passing my radiator in the winter months, since it is so bloody cold here. My engine has enough trouble getting up to operating temp, why not help it out a bit? I figure the heater core will give it cooling enough. Anyway, can anybody think of a reason why this might be a poor idea. Don't worry I wouldn't forget to put it back online before spring (if spring ever comes). Later, Andrew Balser _______________ [___I___I___I___] H_____________H I______|_|______I | | | O I ___|___ I O \----{///////}----/ [----{///////}----] _____/( )###( )\_____ | o | ####### | o | | | ####### | | _______L-------J_______ [_______________________] |//|---\_/-------|\\| |//| |\\| -- -- From GElam30092@aol.com Tue Dec 5 15:11:25 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 15:11:25 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Series Sighting Received the Fall/Winter magazine from Acura with their new Acura SLX on the cover. (Is the SLX an Isuzu derivative?) As I was scanning the magazine (the last step before tossing it), I can across a picture of a leopard on the hood on a Series Land Rover. All that shows of the Land Rover is the hood and the area that composes the drivers seat (RHD!) along with a bit of the roof. There are several people on the roof lying down taking pictures of the leopard. (Can you say "Nice kitty cat!) The cat doesn't look amused! Actually the picture was contained in a advertisement that isn't supposed to look like an ad for a travel group offering exciting vacations. Nevertheless, it was nice of Acura to include a Land Rover in the magazine! Gerry "That's too close to a damm cat for me" Elam From Kurt Jensen Tue Dec 5 12:32:19 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: Kurt Jensen Subject: Re: roof racks-handling On an interesting side note about roof racks and handling.... When I bought my 1964 109 2 door Safari this summer, I took the roof off immediately. Handling was great! It felt like I could go at almost any angle on a side slope. It never felt ready to roll, even when a brake failure caused me to rocket down a very steep hill in reverse at high speed, with a nice spin out at the bottom to avoid the Cope mobile. I know I probably would have rolled multiple times if I had had a roof on, let alone a loaded rack. I guess it's a trade off. I was compelled by cold and rain to return my roof to my vehicle (and by passengers unused to such accomodations....on 6 hour road trips...at night...in the rain.) However, it was fantastic in nice weather, and handling was unbelievable. I have no idea why more LRO's don't do it seasonaly...Is it the "lazzy bugger" thing? Do you not enjoy dirt in every pore on off-road convoys? Anywway, now that the roof is back on, and the roof rack, it feels much more tippsy, and I know those side slope spectacles would now leave my lying on my side like Eric Cope found himself at Hollister in his 109. Next summer, you guys should try the topless thing...the ultimate tanning machine! I think that easy seasonal option is one of the great things about the series vehicles! Yet at the British Car Meet in Palo Alto this year, I think DanoRosa and myself were the only topless ones! We didn't have to drive home with a foot holding the driver door open to cool off after "Paradise Lost" either. Anyone out there have opinions on why more of us don't go topless when the weather calls for it? Embarrassment? (someone might see your duct tape covered seats...modesty?) Curious Kurt On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > > One thing to consider too is that > > putting a lot of weight on the roof may alter the handling of the vehicle [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > You will also have to remember when off roading that on side hills, > you will tend to roll over at a much smaller angle than a Rover without such > loading. From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 12:49:25 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 12:49:25 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Series Sighting (Acura SLX) Gerry Elam asks: > Received the Fall/Winter magazine from Acura with their new Acura SLX on the > cover. (Is the SLX an Isuzu derivative?) Yes. According to Car and Driver (at http://www.caranddriver.com/member/curIssue/nov_95/changes.html) the SLX is just a rebadged Honda Passport, which in turn is a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 12:52:55 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 12:52:55 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Acura SLX -- correction Just now, I stupidly wrote: Yes. According to Car and Driver (at http://www.caranddriver.com/member/curIssue/nov_95/changes.html) the SLX is just a rebadged Honda Passport, which in turn is a rebadged Isuzu Rodeo. Oops, I meant a rebadged Isuzu Trooper. The Passport will only be sold by Honda. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 05 Dec 95 15:51:54 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Camel Sized Disappoinment Well Murphy's law visited me last Thursday. I was training for the upcoming US Camel Trophy trials by pacticing my rope climb when I felt something give in my upper right chest. I decided to give it a rest for a few days but by Sunday afternoon while on an orienteering run the pain was getting severe everytime I took a deep breath. A visit to my friendly Dr./ Chiropractor revealed two ribs out of place and a badly pulled or torn Rhombus muscle. This probobly is left over from a car wreck in '87. Anyway the end result is that have had to withdraw from the trials or risk further damage to my shoulder/chest. When I spoke to Tom Collins this morning he was very sympathetic and level headed in his advice. He rightly concluded that even a spot on the team was not worth possible physical damage considering my carreer as a pilot. Somebody has to pay for all the new toys I want on my Disco. Anyway thanks to all those folks who wrote me with their support ( there were quite a few). As I had optimistically figured that I would need quite a bit of time off this spring I'm going to put it to use and attend one of Lakeland Safari's off-road trips to one of 3 locations: 1.Pyrenees Mountains 2.French Alps 3.Morrocco Not having been to any of these locations before could anybody give me some opinions on which might have the best combination of off-roading, scenery, adventure? Also anybody else interested in attending? Mark (It's only a flesh wound) Ritter From "Mark Talbot" Tue Dec 5 20:57:52 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 20:57:52 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: RRR WWW Anyone got the RRR WWW page address ? Mark From ASFCO@aol.com Tue Dec 5 16:03:03 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:03:03 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: 1990 RR All; Saw a recent ad for a 1990 RR 79000 miles asking price 14,900. anything to watch out for in particular on this year ?? Don't know the book value but price seems a little on the low side for that year, at least here in NY... any comments welcomed thanks Steve 72 slll 88 From "Mark Talbot" Tue Dec 5 21:10:45 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 21:10:45 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: LAND ROVER SIGHTING All, There is a new video camera on the market, thinks it's Canon that the focus is controlled by your eye, anyway, they have a Land Rover in several of the background shots. also, this may be old, but the DSS dish has a Land Rover going over a cliff, the dog watching the TV seems sad ! Mark From Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Tue Dec 5 16:36:29 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:36:29 -0500 From: Martin_Eglitis@nih.gov (Martin Eglitis) Subject: Re: Acura SLX -- correction According to my brother-in-law, who works for Honda/Acura, the SLX is a fully tricked out Trooper with full leather, fancy stereo, and (not like the regular Trooper) shift-on-the-fly 4WD (but still no AWD). BTW, Honda really wanted to expand its stake in Rover so they could get the rights to LR, and were quite peeved that BMW snatched Rover away from them. But for the purchase by BMW, the new Acura SLX would have been a re-badged Discovery. Martin Eglitis '94 Discovery From John_White@logistics.nonstop.com Tue Dec 5 13:39:52 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 13:39:52 -0800 From: John_White@logistics.nonstop.com Subject: I almost fainted. I saw a conniston green Discovery with an expedition roof rack, rhino bar with fog and driving lights, and five of the Camel Trophy-style steel wheels also in conniston green. It was so beautiful, I almost fainted. Other distinguishing marks: it had Colorado license plates, and did a u-turn at the corner of Union and Columbus here in San Francisco during the lunch hour today. Was it someone on one of the LRO lists? Cheers! John John C. White, III voice: +1 (415) 283-1891 Database Architect facs: +1 (415) 984-4599 NON-STOP Logistics Corporation San Francisco, California From a-robw@microsoft.com Tue Dec 5 14:12:10 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 14:12:10 -0800 From: a-robw@microsoft.com Subject: RE: Incredable Disco ---------- From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Tue Dec 5 17:57:56 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 17:57:56 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: External sun visors Stopped by the metal shop this morning and got the estimates for the external sun visors. The guy still had the program on disk, and I've ordered eight to be made up. These are 14 guage aluminum sheet with .090" galvanized steel brackets, shipped unpainted and CKD. Shipping costs have yet to be determined, but the visors will be sold for $85, or $75 to ROAV members. With the holidays coming up, I don't expect these will be ready until early January. If you are wondering, these are superior to the Rover originals. The metal is heavier guage, and the holes have been purposefully elongated to allow for a perfect fit, even if your windscreen is a bit "tweaked". Sturdy enough to withstand the footfalls of the neighborhood urchins who view a Rover with a roofrack as a piece of playground equipment. Reservations to the below address, and I'll advise as to UPS costs. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Tue Dec 05 14:43:03 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 95 14:43:03 PST From: "BREAKFIELD ERNEST" Subject: Re: Help selecting a CB radio. David, i'd suggest getting the best rig you can physically fit into the vehicle(s) that has Single Side Band (SSB) operation; they are generally built with better transmitter sections than their 'strictly AM' cousins as the rules allow 12 Watts on transmit using SSB (vs. 4 Watts on AM). the receiver sections are usually equally superior. as you'll probably learn, SSB works better @ 11 Meters (CB frequencies) in mountainous or hilly areas, valleys, canyons; exactly the sort of places we are likely to go to play! even if your friends don't have SSB rigs, you can still use yours on AM, with generally noticeable improvement (over AM-only rigs) in the signal reception, unwanted (adjacent) signal rejection, and audio quality characteristics. with regard to the advice given by others here concerning antennae's; i'd go along strongly with the recommendation that you give serious consideration to impact vulnerability/survivability when making your selection! although the relatively impervious nature of the 102" Stainless Steel whip is desirable and its length would help your range in & out of those deep, dark gorges we traverse, not many of your fellow wheelers/spotters will appreciate having that thing flying around in the rougher sections! (and no matter how you try to attach it, some will say, it WILL come loose somewhere off-roading...). a shorter antennae would be nice in this regard, but as soon as you start lowering the tip of the antennae towards the ground, your range decreases, so you need to settle on a compromise that suits you. garage clearance, aesthetics, and other things will all figure into the picture, as will which vehicle your going to use it on. ever try to get that nice magnet-mount to stick to an aluminum roof? ;-) you might also consider that a 5/8 wave(length) ant will need a good ground plane to function properly, maybe even at all, (read: steel roof or BIG flat roof rack!) whereas a 1/4 wave will not. (i think a 1/2 wave works like the 1/4 in this regard, but i don't remember for sure; will somebody on the list please fill in here? thanks...) power mikes; don't do it! not only are most of them ineffective, unnecessary, and sometimes even detrimental. on the better(/SSB) rigs, you shouldn't need one if the radio is properly tuned. you also add in the distinct possibility that the battery in the mic could (read: will,) fail, rendering an otherwise perfectly good radio inoperative. (nice feature, eh? NOW how much would you pay?!) so, you say, carry an extra battery, right? yeah sure, IF you can find one; many of the power mics don't use readily available standard batteries, and it'll probably be dead too by the time you pull it out of your glove box... carry an extra mic? O.K., if you want to, (and some people do, since mic/cord failures aren't entirely unknown,) but i'll stick to the stock mic in a good radio. which brings me to the final point; no mater what rig you get, get a good radio 'doctor' if you can find one in your area. "golden screwdriver" status not necessary; what you need is what they'll probably call "peaking and tweaking". it seems every assembly line is a little different, and the performance characteristics of the final sum of any collection of components will vary from unit to unit, but almost every new radio i've seen on a scope was not operating to it's full potential, and sometimes it wasn't even close! getting it tuned can sometimes yield dramatic results, depending on how far out it is to start with. no, this shouldn't be necessary, but life in manufacturing being what it is in these cost-of-assembly oriented times, it's a reality. BTW, 12 Watts on 11 Meter SSB will probably work farther for you in the mountains and canyons than any amount of power on 2 Meter FM simplex; the VHF characteristics of 2M won't likely allow you more than line-of-sight contact... of course if you're using the Amateur advantage of repeaters, that's cheating, and all bets with regards to range are off! i hope some of this helps, and welcome you (and others) to contact me directly (or otherwise) if you have any questions. 73, and happy trails, e N6ZES > Subject: Help selecting a CB radio. > Author: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV at smtpgateway [ truncated by lro-digester (was 37 lines)] > |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. > | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} From benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Tue Dec 5 18:32:23 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:32:23 -0500 From: benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Subject: Triple C address Here is the address for Triple C Motor 1908 Orange Street York, PA 17404 717-854-4081 Fax: 717-854-6706 They sell a variety of accessories for MG, Lotus, Jag, Triumph, etc. and Land Rover. From Christopher Boese Tue Dec 05 16:17:37 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:17:37 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: 1990 RR ASFCO@aol.com (couldn't find his real name) wrote: > All; Saw a recent ad for a 1990 RR 79000 miles asking price 14,900. > anything to watch out for in particular on this year ?? Don't know the book > value but price seems a little on the low side for that year, at least here > in NY... any comments welcomed thanks According to Edmund's, the current wholesale for a 1990 RR is $16800. Retail is $20125. For a County, you're supposed to add about $600. Mileage will bring that down some -- normal mileage is supposed to be 10000 per year. This came from gopher://www.dc.enews.com:70/00/showroom/edmunds/usedmake/landrove/1990/rangerov%09+Text/plain -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 beluga black and tan with brush scratches Discovery From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Dec 05 16:56:24 1995 Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:56:24 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: RRR WWW Mark Talbot asked: > Anyone got the RRR WWW page address ? http://www.apricot.co.uk/rel3/directory/rrr/index.html It's listed in the International Section of the FAQ club section (http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.internat.html) with the Range Rover Register listing. Lloyd's Web page (http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/) should also have a listing. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 05 95 Dec EST 1921 Date: 05 Dec 95 21:12:58 EST From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Diesel starting In addition to a good battery,a good earth link is advisable for starting a diesel, the regular battery earth lead goes to the frame, usually corroded. A useful mod is to run an additional earth lead to the engine from the batery, or better still to the starter motor itself. After a sluggish start feel all the cable joints in the starting circuit, any hot joints are asign of high resstance caused by a dirty or poor connection. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Wed Dec 6 04:24:43 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 04:24:43 +0100 From: sm095re@unidui.uni-duisburg.de (Kurt Reinhardt) Subject: Discovery/Camel roof-racks Gerry asks in the digest of 05.12. about discovery racks..... Yes your guess is correct. As I was glad to drive some of these vehicles at the german pre-selection I can confirm that they are attached to the very strong internal rollcage. It is even mentioned as safety advice in " The Land Rover Experience " written by Tom Sheppard, published by Land Rover (STC 8545.AA) in the chapter about Loading and weight distribution ( this book is a nice x-mas gift). Greetings Kurt From jpappa01@interserv.com Tue Dec 5 19:28:41 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 19:28:41 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: D90 SW update Metro West has received 7 D90 Station Wagons. I posted some stuff the other day when the earth stood still - it disappeared into the now-infamous *non* digest from the other day. Also, what is this magazine ultrawide bandwidth chomper! Why do I feel the urge to zap them into obligatory hell? Three white, two blue, and two green. They all look great. Lowest number was an Arles Blue one with SW #005/500! Methinks that I'm going to pop sliders into my `glass hardtop and will report on same. cheerz Jim - intolerant of non-LRO's - can't help it - I'm obsessed! Or possessed... `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From Inkornoink@aol.com Tue Dec 5 22:57:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:57:40 -0500 From: Inkornoink@aol.com Subject: Re: 1990 RR In a message dated 95-12-05 16:26:42 EST, ASFCO@aol.com writes: SNIP:> All; Saw a recent ad for a 1990 RR 79000 miles asking price 14,900. anything to watch out for in particular on this year ?? Don't know the book value but price seems a little on the low side for that year, at least here in NY... any comments welcomed thanks It's quite low...I was offered $22,000 for mine one week ago.... If the truck's in good shape, snatch it up....and consider selling it for more! From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Wed Dec 6 16:46:21 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 16:46:21 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster Michel said that galvanising is $0.75 per POUND in Canada. In Australia it is approx $AUD 0.80 per KILOGRAM which seems like a bargain. Australian and Canadian Dollars are approx equal. My only extra advice is that galvanising can tend to warp or twist things, so be prepared for this; not to the point of unservicability though. I'm a big fan of galvanising. Why don't LR galvanise the firewall panels? Australian army 110's have gal chassis. I've got to get around to blasting and galvanising my bullbar. James Carley '85 110 County 3.9D From "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Wed Dec 6 07:57:54 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 07:57:54 GMT+200 From: "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Subject: LR trip over Afrika Hi fellow Rovers, If you have got WWW access have a look at the following URL. http://gnn.com/gnn/meta/travel/features/lovedu/index.html It is about a trip over Afrika in a Blue Land Rover and the series is at about Chapter 4 now. Very neat, good writing style, what a pleasure to find an article like this on the Net. Greetings Gawie Gawie van Blerk --------------------------------------------------------------- Internet : A48462@bfnnfs01.eskom.co.za (work) : gawie@pixie.co.za (home) URL : http://www.pix.za/bloemfontein/gawie.html Tel : 27+51+404-2421 --------------------------------------------------------------- From Roger Sinasohn Tue Dec 5 22:43:45 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:43:45 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: SII vs SIIA > Solid, 1 piece front doors, at least on the 109s. I've got a couple of > these from a 1959/60 wreck. The doors have a number of other different > features associated with this major change. Nope. My '59 109" has 2-piece doors. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Dec 5 22:45:39 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:45:39 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Christmas Decorations For Your Rover? Well, I've got year-end-holiday-celebration-of-your-choice (I like the pagan festivals of the winter solstice, myself) lights on my roof rack. And I thought I was being so original! Oh well. I've got the red ones on, if I can find time, I'll get the blue ones up too. I was also going to do a holiday card, but I was thinking of getting some slow film, and take a picture of the vehicle moving for that liney effect. But I don't know enough about photography to get it right. Well, I'll try, it's amazing what these little disposable cameras can do... BTW, some folks got to see my LR with lights in Mt View last week. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From "John C. White, III" Tue Dec 5 23:12:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:12:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery racks Clamped on is more accurate a description of how the expedition rack attaches. I have a sneaking suspicion that the loads LRNA says a Discovery can carry on its roof are probably low to satisfy LRNA's lawyers. According to the docs, the maximum roof rack load is 110 lbs (!), but I've been on my rack (175 lbs) and it didn't collapse. One thing that must come into play on the stability side is that the suspension on Series Rovers is leaf versus a Discovery's spring, no? Sometime I'll have to load up my rack with, oh, 300-400 lbs just to find out at what speed the Discovery becomes unstable. I've had my unloaded Disco up to 85 mph on Hwy 280 without breathing hard, and would find 53 mph annoying were I limited to that speed (I tend to become a bit Type A). Cheers! John At 10:41 05.12.95 -0800, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: >In message <199512050449.UAA12894@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: >> I've got the "expedition" rack, which is exactly like the one in the "La Ruta [ truncated by lro-digester (was 21 lines)] >with good shocks and new springs, a fully loaded Series 88" with, oh, about 300 >lbs in the roof rack develops an uncontrolable side to side roll at about 53mph. >The only way to regain control is to slow down below that speed, and the roll >hits suddenly with positive feedback. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] >"...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry > from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the > Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From "John C. White, III" Tue Dec 5 23:12:40 1995 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 23:12:40 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: Discovery racks Clamped on is more accurate a description of how the expedition rack attaches. I have a sneaking susFrom "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1902 Date: 06 Dec 95 02:54:07 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Water, water everywhere... > door seal was made of a full round tube, not the current "half tube" (for > lack of a better description) style. Can anyone confirm, or deny this? According to my observations and knowledge it's the other way around. All Series models have the "half tube" or, er, 'thick lip' seals which a) never seal properly and b) are ridiculously expensive, and later on the 110 and all later models they put the round, in some cases (later always) 'one-piece' seals. Tell you what I did on the S.III 109: I was so fed up with having a wet left arm and wet lap and feet, plus water dribbling from the dash when driving through rain that one fine summer day I tore out the @!#%& lips, flexed the seal channels all around down to size (very hard, filthy work..) and simply stuck on the one-piece round front door seals from a 110. (While I was at it and in a spending mood I also fitted the full-alu sliding window front door tops of the 110). No more draught, no more water! ... the rear doors? Hmm - not my problem if the passengers get wet, is it? Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1902 Date: 06 Dec 95 02:55:16 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty > gentleman from Cleveland, OH., who was selling his > 90 RR that he had both upper and lower tailgates > replaced under the 6 Year Corrosion Warranty. ... I find it quite bold for a dealer to issue a 6-year corrosion warranty on a RR. Normally you can expect rust to appear on the upper tailgate whithin less than two years if you're a non-garaged daily driver, and this is an age-old phenomenon. In that case he might as well give you a voucher for a complete tailgate replacement on purchase of the vehicle. Typically you get 6 year *full vehicle* corrosion warranties (as opposed to warranties covering the 'essential supporting bodywork') on vehicles like top-model Porsches with fully galvanized/carbon chassis - but a RR ? :-/ No dealer familiar with the RR and in his good sense would cover a RR with a _6_ year full corrosion warranty unless he already intends to wiggle his way out one way or the other, or wants to hook the customer under all circumstances, even if it means having to throw in a tailgate after 4 years... Stefan From kessels.bill%ott01%c14a#@ey.geis.com Wed Dec 6 11:39:00 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 11:39:00 UTC 0000 From: kessels.bill%ott01%c14a#@ey.geis.com Subject: 94 D90 Misc. (LAN Addressees) LRO submissions Catching up on a few days of digests: Re: D90 fiberglass hardtop--I think mine is great. I may even keep it on next summer--it makes highway driving almost pleasant, and does not leak. It also looks very sharp. I think it is worth the money if you are planning to keep the D90 for a long time (although, I wonder how long the top will last...). I get the installation done at the garage. It usually takes a couple of guys there a couple of hours to do it, and I feel that is money well spent. Re: Roofracks. There has been a recent thread on Disco roof racks. Does anyone have the D90 LRNA/Thule roof rack system. I saw it advertised in the Rovers North Christmas flyer--it attaches to the roll cage above the doors, a novel idea. I am wondering if they will continue to make this base unit much longer, given the lack of production of the D90 in the future. I.e. should buy one soon, or if there are other solutions which work based on more readily available racks. Hi Lift jack: I think I will put mine across the back of the front seats, and lash it down to the lower support for the roll cage. I also use that support to hold a fire extinguisher and a shovel. It fits with a couple of inches to spare. Bill Kessels, kesselsb@ey.geis.com 94 D90 #CDN 67 (P.S. Does anybody know how many Canadian D90's were imported?) From Mike Rooth Wed Dec 6 12:01:26 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 12:01:26 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Grafton's Gallops I've received a postcard from young Andrew,postmarked Jerusalem(I think) dated 22 11 95.It shows an aerial shot of the Judean desert.Andy says they have driven across both this and the Negev.He also says they didnt mean to,but it seemed like a good idea at the time. In the Negev,it seems that the Land Rovers drank 50L of fuel each,took three days to cover 80km. Nothing has bust,yet,they've had trouble with one Hardy Spicer joint,and there is some bad language (wherever did he learn *that*?)about the headlamp switches. Route is:Belgium,Germany,Austria,Hungary,Romania, Bulgaria,Greece,Israel.Next step into Sinai,then Egypt,Djibouti or Mombasa on a boat to get around Sudan. Message for Al Richer,the XCL's work best at 60 rear 45 front on road,full load,50 rear 36 front off road full load. I hear any more,I'll let you know. Cheers Mike Rooth PS They dont hang about,do they? :wq From Lloyd Allison Wed Dec 6 23:05:52 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:05:52 +1100 (EST) From: Lloyd Allison Subject: 18 days to Christmas if you come across any new LR toys could you plsz send me the details for a toy web page: http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Toys/index.html (couple of new fire-engine pictures on the fire engine page too) Lloyd From "Adam Messer" Wed Dec 6 8:19:27 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 8:19:27 -30000 From: "Adam Messer" Subject: Disco roof rack capacity Be careful when wieghting up your Disco roof rack. We had jerricans, a propane tank, extra water, etc on top. Over the bumpy roads the rack deformed slightly--and mashed the rain channels. The enamel (or whatever) over the welds has cracked and the rack is now rusting a little. From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 6 08:04:10 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:04:10 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Oil everywhere but in the sump! Kevan Shaw writes: > I have an '82 88" diesel which runs fine except it has a habit of chucking lots of oil out the breather on the rocker cover, particularly on long runs. The local Land-Rover Gurus keep winding tape round the breather cap > to no avail. Sounds like the same "mechanic" that adds stuff to brake fluid to make the seals swell to "cure" poor brakes. > The problem is longstanding, i.e. ever since I have owned the thing, the engine runs well, starts well and only shows a very little smoke at the oil filler, so I guess there is a bit of blow-by at the piston rings however it was recently compression tested and pronounced > within operating limits. Anyone any ideas as to what could be a cure? Proper ring to bore clearance is the only cure I can think of. Perhaps the compression test was done under a condition that shows it fine, but under other operating conditons blow by occurs. Good luck. I'd be interested in what cures it. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Wed Dec 06 15:04:14 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 15:04:14 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: X-mas and New Year ################################################################################ /\ |||||||| A /0\\ | O O | \\\\//// merry 0//\\0 | \ | \\\/// christmas ///0\\ | -__- | || and 0///\\\0 |||||||| ||O a //0/\\\\ | ||| |-----|o happy 0////\0\\0 | || |----|o new year ///0/\\\\\ | | || 0 || 0 | | || || | | || ----/\---- |______| || /_\ /_\ || ____ | _____/|__|| \\\\\ |\ |\ | /(-8| \ | \\\\\\\\ _| |_ _| |_ ____|_/[]__|__\___|# |8 \\\\\\\\\\\\ |] __=| | __ |# 8|-8---\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ |\ [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|]_o8888888888888o888---//////////////// _| |_ ( o ) ( o ) | //////////// //////// |\ |\ ///// _| |_ _| |__ ################################################################################ Roy "waiting for Santana Claus" Wassili P.S. Santana's are named this way cause Santa used to drive these things way before he switched to red nosed Rudolph and made this na..na..na.. noise trying to get the thing started in the freezing cold! :-D P.P.S. I know it's a bit early to send x-mas cards, but just couldn't resist! From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Wed Dec 6 16:11:56 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:11:56 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco, Manual Mark, Yes, Yes, i've had that noise too in my SIII SWB Diesel. In my case the universal joints and moveable joint on the front prop shaft where completely buggered. I had the propshaft re-built and BALANCED and the problem went away... Maybe the prop shaft only needs to be balanced, If it is not balanced it will also cause a vibration/noise even if the uj's and moveable joint are perfect. Cheers Brian Cotton Land Rover Owners Club of SOUTH AFRICA SIII 2.5 LWB TURBO INTERCOOLED DIESEL CAMPER SIII 2.25 SWB DIESEL (E HEADER + BIG BORE EXHAUST) From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Wed Dec 6 16:12:06 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:12:06 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: Hi-lift Gents and La(n)dies, Here in SA we have two different goodies which we use to Hi-lift Defenders, Discos and RRs out of nasty places: The first goodie is a length of tubing with a square bit which fits over the jaw of the hi-lift and slots into the holes in the rear crossmember/bumper of the Defender. The second goodie is a square-ish bit which fits on the hi-lift with a short length of chain and a hook which one hooks under the bumper (on the towing eye I think ? :-] ) I think the LRO magazine has some pictures, if you need more info mail me. Brian Cotton Land Rover Owner's Club of SOUTH AFRICA SIII LWB TURBO INTERCOOLED DIESEL CAMPER SIII SWB 2.25 DIESEL From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Wed Dec 6 16:11:47 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:11:47 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster David, An extremely important thing to do prior to galvanising a chassis is to clean the inside out VERY VERY VERY well. If this is not done then the bits of gunge and sand (gravel and sand blasting sand) living in the hidden corners will get soaked in acid and when galvanised, these acid blobs get covered by zinc and start rusting away happily. On the older vehicles it sometimes happens that the cross-member under the gearbox blows up or sometimes explodes. Exploding is very rere but the bulging is about 40 %, it is not serious though. Have fun Brian Cotton Land Rover Owners Club of South Africa LR SIII 2.5l intercooled Turbo Diesel safari camper LR SIII 2.25 Diesel (E-Header + big bore) Goes like a bomb) bcotton@lia.co.za From russ burns Wed Dec 6 06:31:34 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 06:31:34 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: 6 Year Corrosion Warranty At 02:55 AM 12/6/95 EST, Stefan R. Jacob wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >Stefan > The 6 year corrosion warrenty is from LRNA. In Detroit they are very good about honoring it. My frend just had 6K worth of work done under warranty. It is nice to see someone stand by their product for a change. Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From Ray Harder Wed Dec 6 08:45:37 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 08:45:37 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: buying land rovers long distance. Made a couple of telephone calls last night -- I am looking for a 58-68 SIIa and some of the old hemming's ads sounded interesting. But it made me think and I am requesting some net-wisdom here. What are some things to do and not do when buying a vehicle long distance (successes and horror stories welcome -- i could summarize for the FAQ if enough responses). -- OK, one thing is to have a fairly complete list of what is important to you and what is not. And have an idea what certain features might be worth if presence (or absent). -- I understand that sometimes you might have to make the trip, see the truck, and be able to walk away because the vehicle was not represented correctly -- probably need to have that understanding clear before making the trip. -- my first instinct is to start haggling over price, but how do you do that when you haven't even seen the truck. -- i've heard stories where people have sent money and never seen it again -- this was told in the vein of used parts, but it could be true for whole vehicles, too. how are deposits handled. -- photos can be helpful -- a video, even better. -- buying from the LR restoration houses that have cropped up in the past couple of years. Their prices seem to be out of line to me, but a vehicle with many major components renewed does have additional value. -- Advice on determining value. The FAQ, past experience comes into play here, but LR prices seem to be climbing faster than I can comprehend. Asking price and selling price are two different things. Better to answer ads early, or let them age for 2-3 months. -- Pros and cons of 1)driving, 2)towing, 3)haul-for-hire a vehicle 1000 miles or so. On one hand, I want to save money and have an adventure, but how much adventure can I handle? my only other car was 1200 miles away and i paid $750. I towed it and all went well -- it was an adventure (and fun, too). I figured I couldn't go wrong -- but $4000-$7000 is another story. Any advice would be appreciated along these lines... Ray Harder (siia 88 (lulu)) From "MR PETER KEMP" Wed Dec 6 17:30:26 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:30:26 GMT+200 From: "MR PETER KEMP" Subject: general Greetings, A group of us intend embarking on a trip to Malawi next year in June and would like to hear from folk who might have travelled up that way. There are two ways of getting from Zimbabwe, either going through Zambia or through the Tete corridor in Mozambique. Different people have different nightmares to tell about each! Is there anyone out there who can throw some light on either of these options? Land Rover watches -WARNING!!! On the topic of the Land Rover watches that someone mentioned awhile back - I have just swopped mine for the third time. Each time there has been a problem with the Alarm not switching off, after a couple of months. Apparantly they have been withdrawn (in the last two days) by Land Rover because of this problem. Series 11A Forward-Control Motorhome for sale: For anyone who fancies travelling across the African Continent - A friend of mine is selling the above vehicle in South Africa. It is in excellent condition and has only 6000km on the clock. Other features : Pop-up roof. Eazi-awn. Roof Carriers. 100L water tank. 240L fuel capacity. Dual Batteries. Hot water to sink, basin and shower. Mosquito netting. Flourescent lights. Radio/tape. Loads of storage space. etc. Access from camper into the front cab. Price : UK 12 500 pounds or SA R 70 000 Feel free to contact me directly on e.mail pkemp@lark.ru.ac.za or Wayne Sparg Tel (0431) 312077(w) (0431) 54159(h). 9 Linaria Drive, Vincent Heights, East London. 5200. South Africa. Cheers. From Danny Phillips Wed Dec 6 16:49:08 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 16:49:08 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Bunmps and clunks Dear all, well there i was over here in blighty, concerned that the great banging and crashing coming from our disco was due to the fact that my wife tries to emulate nigel mansell whenever she pulls away from the lights. seriously i do need some advice. i had noticed a thumping (?) noise coming from the drivetrain esp when coasting / slowing at about 30mph, i thought that the wheel bearings where / are on their way out. anyway i also checked her over what with the threat of snow etc. she was low on oil so i glugged in 2L (mobil 1 incidentally). she is definately quieter at idle, but despite the fact that my diagnosis of this thumping was bearings (and despite the fact that it was no more noticible around corners - a symptom i understand) the noise seems to have all but gone. she could probably do with a bit more oil (more mobil 1) but could the noise just have been an oil pump working overtime ? by the way i did post about my power steering pump leaking a while back my chaps (the garage that do the work for me) say not to worry until it litrally starts pouring out (they said they would let me know when it was time to change ) they also recommended a recon unit, they have just fitted one to a RR with 130,000miles on the clock and it is going great guns after another 2000miles in 4 weeks (including off-road, the chaps been up to scotland). lastly the CT discos stay upright with all that extra load as they why the nutters drive them, the centrafugal force generated by their speed round the world counters and gravity pulling it over. :-) hope the snow settles i can earn a few bob then towinf fords out of ditches :-) From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Wed Dec 6 11:50:58 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 11:50:58 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: is the RR diff slop/preload adjustable? In reference to the Rangie diffs, Is the preload ("slop"-?) adjustable w/o resetting the R+P set? Or should one just get another R+P set? as long as you're here... (to aussies) How easy and cheap is it to find a 4.4 from P76, pref.? Is the difference in CR between P76 and Terrier in pistons or heads? Will stock 4.2/4.6 crank fit the 3.5 block, or are we still looking only at specialty stroker kits ($$$) Hot Rod march 85 issue - building a 305 from 215 using BOP 300 crank - I might be getting a reprint, please check with me in a couple of days. Also, in ref. to recent RR cam swap post (thanks for the update !!)... Did you say that Crane had 2 diff. grinds for EFI and carbed 3.5l? They only show the 256,262 and 27? grinds in their "Energizer" line AFAIK. Any comments? Messrs. Andy(2), Geof, Brian? Still trying to tune the CD's on the 3.5 v8 in the 109.... Jan From Stephen Thomas Wed Dec 06 11:48:48 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 11:48:48 -0500 From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Receiver-Mounted Winch Gentle Readers: Any thoughts, comments, or experiences with receiver-mounted winches? I'm particularly interested in the Class III receiver mounted 8000lb Warn Winch (along with the Class III front receiver) listed in the latest Rovers North Catalog. I'd be installing said device in a 94 Disco. Thanks in advance for your opinions. --Stephen ____________________________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom Phone: (770) 514-3522 840 Franklin Court Fax: (770) 514-3491 Marietta, GA 30067 USA Email: stephen.thomas@tridom.com From "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Wed Dec 6 09:26:45 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:26:45 -0800 (PST) From: "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Subject: Re: Help selecting a CB radio. According to DEBROWN@SRP.GOV: >Which antenna should I get? Any mounting locations or suggestions? I could not answer about CB antenna, but when I drove my LR to the jungle of Sumatra (Indonesia) with my homebuild 80 meter ham radio, I use a bottom loading vertical antenna that I mount on that 'bumper' little pipe thingy on the back of the chassis. I clamp midway of the antenna to the rain gutter, to reduce the whip. If I would drive again, I'll just use a 2 meter radio with power amp and a shorter antenna, so I don't have to worry with snapping the ant. Sumatra is already well covered with 2 meter repeaters anyway (yes, that's cheating, like somebody said ;) Dave, let us know when you got your license ;) 73 de Paulus -- Paulus Suryono Adisoemarta paulus@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (NeXT!) N5SNN / YG1QN yono@parokinet.org (Linux!) Abu: I wonder why everybody knows that I am a newbie on the internet Nawas: That's because you just forwarded the 'Good Times virus' mail to everyone From "Brazelle, Amy (TRW)" Sun Dec 03 12:22:00 1995 Date: Sun, 03 Dec 95 12:22:00 PST From: "Brazelle, Amy (TRW)" Subject: Seat Belts Can anyone recommend some replacement seat belts for the back seat of my husband's 1966 SIIA 109? I'm trying to find something "Rover" for him for Christmas. He has already replaced the front belts with lap/shoulder belts. He doesn't have any in the back seat so we don't go out in the Rover a lot because the belts aren't there. He has the old belts but they look pretty bad. I guess lap belts would be sufficient. I need the type and part number please (and I guess a phone number for Rovers North or British Pacific). If I asked him for this information he would get a little suspicious!!! Thanks!!! Please email any suggestions to Brazelle@hsv.mdc.com Amy Brazelle Huntsville, Alabama USA From "Bobeck, David R." Wed Dec 06 13:34:52 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 95 13:34:52 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Made a couple of telephone calls last night -- I am looking for a 58-68 SIIa and some of the old hemming's ads sounded interesting. But it made me think and I am requesting some net-wisdom here. What are some things to do and not do when buying a vehicle long distance (successes and horror stories welcome -- i could summarize for the FAQ if enough responses). 1) I bought my Rover in upstate NY, 500 miles from home. 2) I drove it back. Depends on condition of car, towing a car can be expensive /annoying/ dangerous, especially if you aren't experienced. Same for driving it I guess. U-Haul will set up the tow rig for you but you've got to drive it... If you're driving back, bring lots of tools and a good credit card. 3) Read between the lines, ask LOTS of questions. Consider that a "good" frame in upstate NY is not the same as a "good" frame in AZ. My frame was described as "good condition, and has been undercoated" Well, "good" meant somewhere between poor and very good, and the undercoating took place in 1985. The frame is now breaking. The PO also claimed rebuilt transmission by Rovers North, which I have found out also took place in 1985. Gearbox now pops out of first. 4) Don't be afraid to back out. I had really set my sights on this one, and got the guy to come down a bit on the price, so I took it. I did okay and will have a great truck when I'm done. But I'm doing a frame over which is not what I had quite planned. By the time I'm done I will have prob'ly spent as much as I would have on a local vehicle ($6-7,000) This is actually ok, because the grand lump of cash to buy a more finished car was not available to me, but charging a couple of hundred a month on parts is no problem (haha) I may have been better off waiting and going back empty handed, but probably not. Also, I just wanted to "get one" which I did, and I've had a lot of fun driving it in between working on it. Fact is its hard to get a good Rover for a good price, and they usually need more work than you think. Even if you buy a "good" one for $7,000+, you'll probably ending up spending alot more on it. 5) Make a trip out of it if you're driving back. Setting a deadline or trying to do it in one day (depending on the distance) could be a bad idea, as you may end up pushing the vehicle too hard, or stressing yourself, especially if something goes wrong, then you feel like you are being "delayed". 6) This should be number one. Try to find a local Rover owner that knows their chops to go look at the vehicle. This will give you the advantage of an unbiased opinion. Anybody that's done a full restoration him(her)self will probably know what to look for, as he/she will have already had to repair the critical sections of their vehicle... NEVER send ANY money for a vehicle you haven't seen or had checked out. Don't even send money for pictures as I suspect there are people that make a living off of this. I know of somebody who paid a grand sum for a vehicle sight unseen and had it trucked to his home. He would have been able to get a much better deal or walk away if he had been to see it. The vehicle was cosmetically and structurally almost perfect, but severely lacking in the mechanical section. It'll still be a superb, clean vehicle when everything's straightened out, but it should have cost a bit less. 7) No matter how bad it is, somebody else always has it worse. There isn't anything so extreme that can go wrong with these cars (trucks?) that can't be somewhat anticipated. I heard the noise my gearbox made before I bought it, but it was just on the reverse gear so I didn't worry. The vehicle is still driveable, as it only pops out on the overrun... a small inconvenience (especially going down steep hills:-)). I'll have a galvanised frame in a few months and I'll switch everything over as is. After that, new bolts+lots of anti-seeze means I can easily take it apart to get the gearbox out, etc... at my lesiure. Hope this doesn't muddy the water. I guess if you sum it all up, buying a Rover, even locally, isn't for the faint of heart, and you must understand that there are times when you will wish you had never bought it, or that Land-Rovers never existed to tempt you into buying them. But you bought it, and they do exist, and they always manage to win you over. All those trials have been worth it for me, and you will NEVER get a perfect Rover, so don't worry about it. The End David Bobeck 72 SIII "Green Car" Washington DC dbobeck@ushmm.org From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 06 12:00:17 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 12:00:17 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. In message <199512061449.JAA01859@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > What are some things to do and not do when buying a vehicle > long distance (successes and horror stories welcome -- i could > summarize for the FAQ if enough responses). Do so. :) > -- buying from the LR restoration houses that have cropped up > in the past couple of years. Their prices seem to be > out of line to me, but a vehicle with many major components > renewed does have additional value. And part of the problem is that to them time=money. So if it takes 40 hours of mechanics time to fix it up, how can they not add $1000 to the price and stay in business? ($25/hour is cheep labor for mechanics) Certain vendors trying to sell, or actually selling restored Series LRs for $50k is way too much (IMO). Heck, I think $40k is too much for a '93 NAS D110. > -- Advice on determining value. The FAQ, past experience comes > into play here, but LR prices seem to be climbing faster > than I can comprehend. I personally think that the reason that prices of Series LRs are skyrocketing in the US is because of the influx of newer LRs, especially Discos and D90s. I've noticed a few D90 people buying Series Rovers to restore. After dropping $30k on a D90 or Disco, $7k or $10k on a running Series vehicle may seem like a good buy. And how many Series Rovers change hands in the US every year? 100? All it takes is a few sales for the percieved price to go up. I also wonder if the rising in prices is because people see the US '93 D110s being advertised at $44k to $48k (I think the origional price was $40k) and think that Series LRs are collectables whose price will rise with time. This trend will also drive the price up. A third trend, at least in CA, is that pre-1966 Rovers don't have to be Smogged. As Smog laws get tougher and tougher, those Rovers, or atleast the serial numbers thereof, will have more valuable. How many "pre-1966 SIIA" SIIIs have you seen lately? > Asking price and selling price are two different things. I'd like to update the FAQ for pricing, but the only data that I ever see is asking price. I'm hesitant to put average asking prices in the FAQ because that is a positive feed back loop. (Newby reads FAQ, buys Rover at inflated price, asking prices go up so FAQ reflects this,...) As a general note, the FAQ only has Series LR prices from the US/Canada in the early 90's. It is not trying to exclude the rest of the world, but those were the only data points that Dixon had. Do the UK memembers feel that the prices shown in the back of LRO and LRW reflect the current LR market in the UK? If so I could use that for a UK data point. If Australian, African, German, Danish, etc list members email me with what they feel is the current market price for any type of Land Rover in their country/area, I'll compile the data and add it to the FAQ. > -- Pros and cons of 1)driving, 2)towing, 3)haul-for-hire a > vehicle 1000 miles or so. On one hand, I want to save money > and have an adventure, but how much adventure can I handle? Personally I'd go with 1 or 2 and that would depend upon the condition of the vehicle. A daily runner, I'd drive 1000 miles. One that has sat in a field without running for the last 5 years, I'd be a lot more uncomforable about driving 1000 miles. (If you are going to drive it, bring a box full of likely spares) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From GElam30092@aol.com Wed Dec 6 15:09:47 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:09:47 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Racks and weights You wrote: " Unclear. Most racks on Series Land Rovers just bolt to the rain channel. That's how mine is attached (actually only clamped to the rain gutter--and it's a full length). I've carried hundreds of pounds of stuff up there without any damage." I'm curious. Every rack with the exceptions of the CT vehicles seems to use the rain gutters with no other bracing. Every catalog that I have shows loaded racks (usually with gear bags, two jerry cans, a spare and shovel/high lift) on the rack attached to the gutters. The Discovery is around 110 lbs. It will be interesting (at least to me) to see what the weights are for the others. Would owners of Range Rovers and Defenders mind posting the weights that Land Rover recommends not be exceeded on the List? (BTW: for those in Phx, I just requested the Safety Devices catalog and will be happy to share it out on request.... ) Gerry From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 6 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 6 Dec 95 15:26:27 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Anybody want a Lumenition module? I ended up buying the Crane/Allison unit for my Rover, and as such have a Lumenition module I don't need. $20 plus shipping takes it. aj"Gotta clean house SOMETIME..."r From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 07 07:42:00 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 07:42:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster James Where did you get the price of $AUD 0.80 per kilo?? I have an early Series 1 chassis which is just about ready for the big dip but haven't yet 'let my fingers do the walking'. Still have a few things to pull off but it should be ready by Christmas. Any thing else I should look out for? Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) E-mail: sbar@jna.com.au ---------- From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 06 Dec 95 15:52:21 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: "Strange Noises" >When coasting to a stop with the clutch in, my '96 NAS Disco sometimes makes >a rattling sound in the drivetrain. This seems to be most noticeable after >driving for half an hour or more (everything warmed up) and appears to be ... >After about 500 miles it started make the exact same sound. The sound only >occurs when coasting to a stop and then only when speed pretty slow. Under >power the sound goes away. ... >Anyone else out there experience this? I wouldn't expect it to happen with >an automatic. Given it was present in 2 different Disco's, I suppose things >are as they should be. There are no other odd symptoms and otherwise the I posted a message on this phenomenon 1, maybe 2 weeks ago... It's the transmission brake (hand brake) drum. We also have this problem with many of the Defenders we get. There seems to be a particular assembly line in Solihul which is manned by a bunch of jerks who constantly screw up the transmission brake assembly (adjusted to tight, shoes out of toe, loose/oily linings etc.) Clean out, re-assemble and properly adjust the transmission brake, and the problem will go away (unless it's something else...). Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 06 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 06 Dec 95 15:52:12 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RR power steering boxes >Has anyone replaced their PSB, how long did it take, I just read an old LRO >article where the guy said it took a few hours. That would seem about right, The replacement as such is straightforward, it's pulling out the drop arm ball joint and realigning the steering geometry which can be time consuming and requires special tools. You also have to clear a few things out of the way to have proper access (alternator, air filter, PS-liquid reservoir...) >Would you guys reccomend a rebuilt or exchange or new. I got a few quotes >from the UK for rebuilt factory units that work out about $300, new are $600 Rebuilt - no. Exchange units are ok, but as far as I know, Land Rover officially doesn't sell exchange units in the UK, only new ones; so you'd have to get one from outside the the UK (like KIMMAN in Holland), unless you settle for aftermarket/no-name. I'd advise to go for the improved exchange unit NTC1583E (NTC1583 if it's a new unit). For this unit you also need a different type of drop arm, the old one won't fit (unless you already have the NTC1583 unit installed). Price: GBP 440.- for a new box, or GBP 225.- for the exchange unit in the UK (don't forget to specify LHD!) Stefan From Ray Harder Wed Dec 6 15:51:34 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:51:34 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: > Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. > I have one suggestion. If the frame is bad, stay away from it. well, actually, that was the conversation over the noon hour. say you can get a galvanized frame for $2500 on-site. and say that you can do a frame-over in 6 days as someone noted earlier this month. i have a mechanic that would do it for me for $300 per day. this guy is good -- he could likely find me someone less experienced or do it off-shift -- say $200 per day which adds up to $1200. If I could get an old LR for $2000 with a rotted frame and put $3700 into it, I still am ahead of the $6000 being asked for the arizona car. (which has burnt upholstry and seals and paint burnt off by the intense sun) And this allows me to look east of the mississippi. tough questions/tougher answers... sign me --- confused in missouri... From ASFCO@aol.com Wed Dec 6 17:34:53 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:34:53 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Jim Pappas ALL; Need an e-mail address for Jim Pappas..... Have some info I need to send him. Thanks Steve Bradke 72 slll 88 ASFCO@aol.com From Kevan Shaw Sat Dec 16 22:58:59 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:58:59 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Oil consumption Thanks for the advice folks, It seems rather a depressing prospect of a major engine rebuild to cure it. Graham harden asked if it passed the Euro emission test, wellit did as they only check for exhaust emission which is clean, thankfully they don't count oil spots on the floor under the Landie, if they did very few would pass! I see a lot of people asking about Hi-Lift jacking Discos. There is a company in Scotland who make bolt on jack sockets called NSC design, if anyone is interested I'll try and find the phone number and post it. Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 06 15:26:01 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 15:26:01 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. Ray Harder wrote: > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: > > Subject: Re: buying land rovers long distance. > > I have one suggestion. If the frame is bad, stay away from it. > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: well, actually, that was the conversation over the noon hour. say you can get a galvanized frame for $2500 on-site. and say that you can do a frame-over in 6 days as someone noted earlier this month. i have a mechanic that would do it for me for $300 per day. this guy is good -- he could likely find me someone less experienced or do it off-shift -- say $200 per day which adds up to $1200. If I could get an old LR for $2000 with a rotted frame and put $3700 into it, I still am ahead of the $6000 being asked for the arizona car. > On Wed, 6 Dec 1995, Wes Newman wrote: Remember that frame overs aren't just a new frame. New bushings, probably new U bolts, lots of bolts for body fasteners that will shear when you attempt to take them off. You probably need to replace some or all of the brake lines. While you are moving the engine, are you going to replace the clutch and throwout bearing? I could see another $1000 tacked on in parts before you are done. (At least). I'm not saying that you wouldn't have to do this on another Rover that you buy, but there you could spread the repair bills out a bit. Shipfitter's disease is expensive. Ben, (who has a used frame awaiting an upcoming frameover on a daily (and only) driver) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Dixon Kenner Wed Dec 6 18:37:04 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:37:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: SII vs SIIA On Tue, 5 Dec 1995, Roger Sinasohn wrote: > > Solid, 1 piece front doors, at least on the 109s. I've got a couple of > > these from a 1959/60 wreck. The doors have a number of other different > > features associated with this major change. > Nope. My '59 109" has 2-piece doors. One piece doors on the Series I 88" and Series II's basically designate a "Canadian Spec" Land Rover. There are other options that went with this. (On the Series I's, the serial number carries a lower case "c") From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 06 18:44:59 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 18:44:59 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping... Last saturday's tragic breakdown of the '66 S2A (initiating a cascade failure of the wife's car...another sad tale) has gotten me to think about small spinning metal things a lot recently(see: Bill's brain). I strongly suspect the Fairey overdrive unit let go. this would explain why an otherwise happy truck would suddenly stop dead. Have any other readers felt that same BANG ? If so how big a deal is it to restore the mainshaft bearing carrier and drive on. Will do a thorough diagnosis tomorrow. Always up to my elbows in something... Bill Adams 3Dmentia 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 06 18:59:16 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 18:59:16 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping... Last saturday's tragic breakdown of the '66 S2A (initiating a cascade failure of the wife's car...another sad tale) has gotten me to think about small spinning metal things a lot recently(see: Bill's brain). I strongly suspect the Fairey overdrive unit let go. this would explain why an otherwise happy truck would suddenly stop dead. Have any other readers felt that same BANG ? If so how big a deal is it to restore the mainshaft bearing carrier and drive on. Will do a thorough diagnosis tomorrow. Always up to my elbows in something... Bill Adams 3Dmentia 4016 Spruell Drive Kensington,MD 20895 301-949-9475 1966 S2a 109" SW Diesel "Keeping it stock in the face of common sense" From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Dec 06 16:36:54 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 16:36:54 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Racks and weights In message <199512062010.PAA02082@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > The Discovery is around 110 lbs. It will be interesting (at least to me) to > see what the weights are for the others. Would owners of Range Rovers and > Defenders mind posting the weights that Land Rover recommends not be exceeded > on the List? Based on Land Rover North America and LR, UK brosures 1996 NAS Discovery 110lbs (50kg) (to rain gutter) 1996 NAS Range Rover (Mk2) 176lbs (80kg) (to mount points in roof) 1995 NAS Defender 90 100lbs (Thule system to roll bars) 1993 NAS Defender 100 (not listed/I didn't write it down for the web page) 1995 Defender (world wide) (not listed/I didn't write it down for the web page) Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 7 11:09:25 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:09:25 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re:4.4L stuff > (to aussies) How easy and cheap is it to find a 4.4 from P76, pref.? > Is the difference in CR between P76 and Terrier in pistons or heads? CR difference is in the pistons. if you use 8.13 CR rover pistons in the 4.4 leyland you end up with ~ 9.0:1 so its real easy to get high CR's... motors are around if you ask the right people, prices vary but say $3-400AUD for a rebuilder. Apart from the rocker gear parts are basically rover. the waterpump etc is different but if you want to use the motor in a landy you will need the Rangie timing cover anyway. Oh yeah the 4.4 leyland uses a thick(ish) composite head gasket (like a felpro or McCord). As an aside be aware that the felpro/Mccord composite gaskets when used on your 3.5 will gobble CR, compared to the factory tin ones. ISTR that if I use composites on my 8.13 I end up with a 7.5 or 7.6. I supopose they may be a cheap way of getting ULP capability from a 9.35 Rangie motor havent done the sums..... I dont know about the stroker kits being so expensive. At least over here by the time I pay for crank and rods crack testing, new rod bolts, new pistons and fitting , crank grind, reciprocating mass balance, rings and bearings I'm up for something like ~$1500AUD.. A 4.2 stroker kit with all new bits can be had for $2300-2500AUD. -- Daryl From Kevan Shaw Sat Dec 16 22:58:59 1995 Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 22:58:59 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Oil consumption Thanks for the advice folks, It seems rather a depressing prospect of a major engine rebuild to cure it. Graham harden asked if it passed the Euro emission test, wellit did as they only check for exhaust emission which is clean, thankfully they don't count oil spots on the floor under the Landie, if they did very few would pass! I see a lot of people asking about Hi-Lift jacking Discos. There is a company in Scotland who make bolt on jack sockets called NSC design, if anyone is interested I'll try and find the phone number and post it. Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From "Francis J. Twarog" Wed Dec 6 20:29:41 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:29:41 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Re: synthetic Here's my experiences... In 5 years of owning my newer LR - a 1970 88", I have done a lot of oil changing! But never to my diffs or overdrive after putting synthetic oil in them - done mainly because in northern VT it gets down to -29 degrees F and I need to get around. I highly recommend spending the cash on those areas only - don't waste your money on an older motor, since it burns away twice as fast and leaks like a seive. Perhaps on a new model, since seals are tight and it aids in lowering wear and tear... motto - if cold, lube synthetically - if not, don't bother (this applies to both regional temps as well as operating temps!). Frank Twarog "Brrrrlington" VT From 06 95 Dec EST 1920 Date: 06 Dec 95 20:46:02 EST From: Subject: disco rear door clunks to Chris Boese, While mine developed a door squeak after an off road trip, I am not convinced that it is the door. sounds more plasticky to me. I'll have it checked out at the 15k service. I really need to take a ride in the trunk (while some one drives) and try to pinpoint it. check this out too. above the lock on the rear door is a guide plate. the dealer (Metro west in natick ma) tell me that they have seen two types, a metal to metal (metal on the door and the frame) (guaranteed to make noises) and a metal to plastic (little or no noise). IF yours has metal to metal get the dealer to change it. no idea of part numbers. I have metal to plastic...... regards chris browne brit in boston 95 disco From IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Wed Dec 06 21:30:44 1995 Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 21:30:44 From: IIIDmentia@gnn.com (WILLIAM ADAMS) Subject: seat belts for Amy's 109 >> He doesn't have any in the back seat so we don't go out in the Rover a >> lot >>because the belts aren't there. He has the old belts but they look > pretty >>bad. I guess lap belts would be Hey Amy I hope you aren't trying to tell us that you guys are back seat drivers! The number you need to call is 802-879-0032. Just tell them the year and model and they'll do the rest. They quote $62.00 per belt assembly,but perhaps if you already have the hardware,they'll just sell you the belts. I have the same model Rover as you do (diesel) and love it to pieces(literally). P.S. Hope your husband doesn't read the Rover mail or your surprise is... From Wdcockey@aol.com Wed Dec 6 23:11:15 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:11:15 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: SII vs. SIIA & Canadian Spec We have the remains of a '59 88" with 1 piece doors which was originally sold in West Virginia. Also 1 piece doors were used on some early II SWs sold in the UK, so it looks like some but not all U.S. early Series II had 1 piece doors. I saw references in the OVLR FAQ to Canadian spec Series IIs. Was this a spec ordered by Rover of North America for the Canadian market? The only references to special configurations in the early II parts books are to American Dollar Area. I have a 1960 East Coast U.S. price list. Does anyone have a Canadian price list? Our '60 88", originally sold in Pennsylvania, has a heater with the long rectangular air box under the dash, and the air inlet at the front, inside of the right wing as described in the FAQ for late Series I Canadian spec. There is clear evidence that a round Smith's heater was removed before this heater was installed. Prehaps this heater was a predecessor to the Kodiak, and was sourced in North America and installed locally? From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 6 20:26:12 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:26:12 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Racks and weights >From: GElam30092@aol.com[SMTP:GElam30092@aol.com] >You wrote: " Unclear. Most racks on Series Land Rovers just bolt to the rain >channel. That's how mine is attached (actually only clamped to the rain >gutter--and it's a full length). I've carried hundreds of pounds of stuff >up there without any damage." >I'm curious. Every rack with the exceptions of the CT vehicles seems to use >the rain gutters with no other bracing. Every catalog that I have shows >loaded racks (usually with gear bags, two jerry cans, a spare and shovel/high >lift) on the rack attached to the gutters. The D110 I saw today had it's rack mounted atop the external roll cage. That would seem to be a much sturdier mount than a drip rail. Likewise, I would think that the number of mounts attaching the rack to the rail would help distribute the weight better. Also, there may be some points along the drip rail that are stronger than others. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From JCassidyiv@aol.com Wed Dec 6 23:34:19 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:34:19 -0500 From: JCassidyiv@aol.com Subject: 109 in NH Just got the latest issue of a regional classified magazine. There's a 1967 109 for sale in NH. Does this belong to anyone on the list-if so, E-mail me directly as I'm quite interested. Also, the January 1996 issue of Four Wheeler magazine has a long-term update on their Discovery-simply one-and-a-half pages of praise! There was a small problem with gearbox whine which was fixed under warrenty. Can someone tell me what the largest tires I can put on my RR with the OME springs? I know this was discussed recently, but I admit I didn't pay much attention. Does anyone know of a good source(price-wise) for Superwinch products. I'd like to mount one of their Husky series winches to my RR. Cheers, and thanks for the info! John Cassidy, Bangor Maine USA From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Thu Dec 7 17:39:34 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 17:39:34 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster Simon & LR readers, this is sort of a personal reply but is of interest to Australian readers and maybe others. If you want to do your galvaniSing (I prefer the S spelling) homework properly the best Australian ref is Hot Dip Galvanizing, by the Galvanizers Association of Australia, 124 Exhibition Street, Melbourne Victoria 3000. ISBN 0 909951 20 9 Other advice I've remembered is when getting prices check whether the price (per kg) is for before or after galvanising. I think it's a bit of a scam that some quote for the weight after galvanising - which they estimate is approx 5% higher than pre galv. I get a bit of galvanising done for work. Most galv's have a min charge of approx $AUD 50. Last check of prices (Nov 1995) was (Sydney): Industrial Galvanizers, 636 8244, want drawings, don't like quoting on weight, but just so you know how cheap it can be, their Government Contract rate was $AUD 0.39 per kg post gal in 1994. Mascot Galvanising, 667 4328, $AUD 0.80 per kg pre gal Galvanising Services, 709 3777, $AUD 0.65 per kg post gal (=add 5%) Trico Metal Industries, 707 4299, $AUD 0.80 per kg pre gal. Trico were the only ones to offer reasonable pick-up and delivery for non regular customers. In my experience most of them tend to be pretty unfriendly and unhelpful towards small timers, but I guess the product sells itself. Depending on the corrosivity of the environment (we don't have salted roads in Oz) you can expect a 25 year life for a galvanised chassis. James Carley '85 110 County 3.9D (and Coastal Engineer) From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Thu Dec 07 08:13:47 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 08:13:47 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Frozen conduit pipes Hello folks, It's freezing( -4 Celsius ) for a view days now here in the Netherlands. When I wanted to wash wy front window this morning, and the rear window also, trying to spray some washingfliud on the window, there was none. It didn't even sputter!. Checked the reservoir under the hood, fluid wasn't frozen. Could hear the pump also, trying to spray some fluid on the windows. I suspect that the fluid in the conduit pipes is frozen :-(. Bought the beast brand new at the end of september, 1995 that is, so I expected there to be some anti-freeze in the reservoir. Now it seems there was *some* indeed. Any good suggestions to defrost these pipes? ( No garage to heat the beast up though :-( ). Hand clapping and feet stamping regards, LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From Daniel Polak Wed Dec 6 19:03:00 1995 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 19:03:00 +0100 From: Daniel Polak Subject: 4WD on snow and ice Winter is here. I didn't garage my Lightweight on purpose, I'm waiting for snow and ice to see how it will behave. I expect traction to be better than on my regular car but braking to be worse (no ABS), also it promises to be quite cold and windy inside. In European winter conditions how does driving a LandRover compare to driving a normal car like my Saab 900? What are your experiences driving LandRovers in winter? Daniel From david@stat.com (David Dodell) Thu Dec 07 00:28:02 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 00:28:02 MST From: david@stat.com (David Dodell) Subject: Front Seat Info / Children / Airbags / Discovery Several weeks ago, I asked about the safety of putting a child in the front seat of a 96 Disco due to the airbag. Just received this by email, concerning child seats in general from the Centers for Disease Control. Air-Bag-Associated Fatal Injuries to Infants and Children Riding in Front Passenger Seats -- United States Air bags, when used as a supplement to safety belts, effectively prevent deaths and serious injuries in frontal motor-vehicle crashes. Air bags are standard equipment in most new cars; federal safety standards require that all new passenger cars and light trucks be equipped with both driver- and passenger-side air bags by 1999. The safety of air bags is well documented, and air bags have saved an estimated 900 lives since the late 1980s (1); however, special precautions are needed to safely transport children in vehicles equipped with air bags. Reports of eight deaths of child passengers in crashes involving air-bag deployment are of special concern because they involved low-speed crashes that the children otherwise might have survived. This report summarizes three of these eight cases (2). Case 1. In October 1995, in Utah, a 5-year-old child sitting in the front passenger seat of a 1994-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side air bag deployed during a collision. Preliminary information indicates the child was not restrained by the lap/shoulder belt. The child sustained a skull fracture as a result of head contact with the air bag and subsequent head contact with the roof of the vehicle. Case 2. In July 1995, in Pennsylvania, a 20-day-old infant seated in a rear-facing convertible child safety seat in the front passenger seat of a 1995-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side air bag deployed. The infant sustained multiple skull fractures and crushing injuries to the brain as a result of the impact of the air-bag compartment cover flap with the back of the child safety seat at the location of the child's head. At the time of collision, the vehicle was traveling at approximately 23 miles per hour. The vehicle had a label on the right front sun visor warning against using a rear-facing child safety seat in the front passenger seat. The child safety seat also had a warning label that read "when used in a rear facing mode, do not place in the front seat of a vehicle that has a passenger air bag." Case 3. In April 1993, in Ohio, a 6-year-old child who was sitting unrestrained in the front passenger seat of a 1993-model automobile was killed when the passenger-side air bag deployed during a collision with a stopped vehicle. The child died from a brain injury caused by blunt force trauma. Reported by: Traffic Safety Programs, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Div of Unintentional Injury Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, CDC. Editorial Note: Although infants, children, and all other occupants always should be properly restrained in safety seats or safety belts, as many as 35% of young children ride unrestrained (3). Any child who rides unrestrained or incorrectly restrained in the front seat of a vehicle with a passenger-side air bag is at risk for serious injury or death if the air bag deploys. Precrash braking may propel an unrestrained child against the dashboard in immediate proximity to the point of air-bag deployment. The inflating air bag then can propel the child against structures inside the vehicle, causing serious injury or death. Rear-facing child restraints also pose a hazard in vehicles with a passenger-side air bag and must never be placed in the front seat (4). To be properly protected, infants must ride in a rear-facing child restraint until they weigh 20 pounds or are approximately 1 year old (5). In a crash, a rear-facing child restraint placed in the front seat with its back close to the vehicle's instrument panel could be struck by the rapidly inflating air bag, and the child in the restraint could be seriously injured or killed. Forward-facing safety seats are less likely to be affected by air bag interaction because of their greater distance from the point of air-bag deployment in the dashboard. However, because these seats usually place the child at least several inches closer to the dashboard than adults in the standard seating position, the safest practice is to place all child safety seats in the back seat of the vehicle. If a forward-facing safety seat must be placed in the front seat of a vehicle with a passenger-side air bag, the vehicle seat should be moved as far back as possible to maximize clearance with the dashboard. As a result of an investigation of air-bag-related fatalities and serious injuries to child passengers, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) recently released safety recommendations regarding children and air bags (2). NTSB recommends collaboration between automobile and safety-seat manufacturers, the news media, health and medical organizations, and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) to inform motorists and parents of the correct procedures for transporting children in vehicles equipped with air bags. NHTSA has enacted several regulatory measures addressing the air bag/child passenger problem, including labeling requirements for vehicles and child safety seats and specifications for air-bag cutoff switches. CDC and NHTSA have developed recommendations to prevent air-bag-associated injuries to infants and children (see box). In addition to intensifying efforts to educate motorists, NHTSA has solicited public comment regarding further strategies to reduce adverse effects of air bags (published in the November 9, 1995, Federal Register*); written comments are due by Decem- ber 26, 1995, to Docket Section, Room 5109, NHTSA, 400 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, DC 20590 (refer to docket 74-14, notice #97). Additional information is available from Child Safety Seats, c/o NHTSA, NTS-13, 400 Seventh St., S.W., Washington, DC 20590; or from NHTSA's Auto Safety Hotline, telephone (800) 424-9393 or (202) 366-0123. Air-bag-associated serious injuries and deaths to infants and children should be reported to Vernon Roberts, NTSB, telephone (202) 382-0660. References 1. National Center for Statistics and Analysis, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Traffic safety facts 1994: occupant protection. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 1995. 2. National Transportation Safety Board. Safety recommendation, H-95-17. Washington, DC: National Transportation Safety Board, 1995. 3. National Center for Statistics and Analysis, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Research note. National occupant protection use survey: controlled intersection study. Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, May 1, 1995. 4. CDC. Warnings on interaction between air bags and rear-facing child restraints. MMWR 1993; 42:280-2. 5. American Academy of Pediatrics. 1995 Family shopping guide to car seats: guidelines for parents. Elk Grove Village, Illinois: American Academy of Pediatrics, 1995. Public Health Recommendations to Prevent Air-Bag-Associated Injuries to Infants and Children -- All infants and children should be properly restrained in child safety seats or lap and shoulder belts when riding in a motor vehicle. -- Infants riding in rear-facing child safety seats should never be placed in the front seat of a car or truck with a passenger-side air bag. -- Children should ride in a car's rear seat. If a vehicle does not have a rear seat, children riding in the front seat should be positioned as far back as possible from an air bag. * 60 FR 56554. --- Internet: david@stat.com FAX: +1 (602) 451-6135 WWW: http://www.stat.com/~david From Oscar M Thu Dec 07 18:24:25 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 18:24:25 +0800 From: Oscar M Subject: Synthetics What do you guys think of using synthetic, engine/transmission, under the following conditions : (1) ambient temperature 75-95 degrees F, (2) travel 35-40 miles per day, (3) start the engine 6x-8x per day, (4) stop & go driving, and (5) minimal freeway driving. Right, not the greatest daily driving conditions but a hell of a lot of off-road possibilites here!!! Thanks Oscar omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com Philippines From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Dec 7 12:44:09 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:44:09 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Horror story \Is synthetic oil worth the extra money? No. Unless you are too lazy to change the oil. Just use a good non synth and change twice as often as the service schedule requires. \Is it worth it in an old and slightly tired motor? No. It can leak out of clearances that ordinary oil cant get thru. \Is it OK to use in a new motor? No. Not for 10000 miles. The motor wont break in properly on synth from new. \Regarding non synthetics, how do you pick a "good" oil? They seem to vary \enormously in cost but all claim to exceed all known specifications. Look at the rec.motorcycles Oil FAQ. Superb. The really interesting bit was tee grade holding tests where Castrol GTX did much better than all the other non synths and only Mobil One of the synths beat it!!!! Guess what I use now.......... From Stephen Thomas 7 95 Dec GMT 1913 Date: 7 Dec 95 13:04:45 GMT From: Stephen Thomas Subject: Boxpops Does anyone know if there is a strightforward explanantion for this, or is it a sign of impending doom. The recently recon gearbox in Andy has been performing beautifully up to now, but this morning in anticipation of problems driving out of our ice-rink of a car park - the estate where we live is isolated and the snow overnight had fallen and then frozen - I decided to pop it into four-wheel drive just to get off the estate's iced-up roads. However on depressing the 4WD selector it did not click into place, and instead rose straight back up again. Operating Hi to Low range had no effect and the selector rose again immediately. I have not had a chance to see if Low range and its automatic 4WD selection is operating properly. The selector has worked before as we had it in 4WD on the drive when we did some work on it, on going into Low range it popped back up happy-as-larry. I normally keep the hubs locked to lubricate the bushes, but with the possibility of having 4WD permanantly in place and no desire for wind- up in the transmission, I unlocked them for driving. I have booked it in for a service on the 20th Dec anyway and have asked for them to look at the 4WD selector under the gearbox warranty. Could it be something major? Could it just be that the selector rod has come off the 4WD section of the box (the selector does slop around a bit)? Is there anything that I should worry about before it goes for the service, i.e. any chance of major damage that I am risking in the interval between now and the 20th? whingeing on again.... Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~\ || / || \ || ||_____/_____||_____\_____|| |_|________|____|________|_| /~---__ ______________ __---~\ |~~~~~~~| /=\|####|/=\ |~~~~~~~| | o o | \=/|####|\=/ | o o | | EAB |##############| | Stephen Thomas |_836B__|##############|_______| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \____________________________/ 0121-452-1405 |~_-_~|----\___/-------|~_-_~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| ['Andy' : Classic car, definitely ~---~ ~---~ not a daily driver :)] From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Dec 7 12:49:16 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 12:49:16 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Ersatz air filters \last week, Roy Wassili doubted if the Volkswagen Oilfilter really matches \the LR one. I got to the autoparts dealer again this Saturday and checked \carefully again. It is really similar to that I got from the British autoparts \shop. If anyone is intersted to use it, too. It's the oilfilter mounted on \the newer VW diesels (nonturbo) like Golf/Rabbit and Passat. More to the point has abnyone found a cheaper replacement for the ridiculously expensive paper canister things on 90s? From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 07 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 07 Dec 95 08:17:43 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Overdrive and the sound... > If so how big a deal is it to restore the mainshaft bearing carrier and > drive on. It's a 15-minute job, leaving a 10 inch oil puddle... However, make sure the backplate actually has a bearing in it... (don't ask...) Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 07 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 07 Dec 95 08:19:03 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: "Strange Noises", '96 Disco... > Yes, Yes, i've had that noise too in my SIII SWB Diesel. > In my case the universal joints and moveable joint on the front prop shaft > where completely buggered. But surely not on a *_'96_ Disco* ... honestly... Again: Check those transmission brakes ! Stefan From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 7 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 7 Dec 95 8:18:02 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Lumenition is gone - thanks! From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 7 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 7 Dec 95 8:24:05 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Water ingestion by engine - ick! I've started driving my 109 on a daily basis, and I discovered a serious oversight I'd made that I hope to help someone else avoid. When i installed the ex-late IIa motor in my 109, it had none of the pollution crud on it and the port on the carb for PCV was blocked. "OK" I say, no big deal.... HOWEVER, I made the mistake of not putting some sort of tube over the stub on the front of the oil filler neck, and the engine ingested enough water in a recent rain to put a nice frothy sludge on top of my oil...ick! Guess who's getting an oil change ths weekend? What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and routing it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3 wire ties. This way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to ingest water......double ick! aj"I hate oil mousse"r From Duncan Brown Thu Dec 07 09:09:13 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 09:09:13 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: RE: SII vs. SIIA & Canadian Spec > Our '60 88", originally sold in Pennsylvania, has a heater with the long > rectangular air box under the dash, and the air inlet at the front, inside of [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > was installed. Prehaps this heater was a predecessor to the Kodiak, and was > sourced in North America and installed locally? My 88 (made in '59, titled as a '60, originally from Canada) has that same setup: Smith's heater removed, heater with rectangular box installed under passenger side dash (not recently either!). It definitely had the inlet at the front (on the inside face of the right front wing, next to the grill and headlight) but this has had a piece of aluminum put over it and a crude hole cut in the wing outside (in the normal spot) and covered over with window screen... Oh yeah and the one-piece doors. My doors clearly had "GVW 5000" painted on the lower edges at one point. Presumably Gross Vehicle Weight. Is this a clue as to its former life? many have suggested Canadian Forestry service. Duncan From Peter Kutschera Thu Dec 7 15:30:43 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:30:43 +0100 From: Peter Kutschera Subject: Re: Oil everywhere but in the sump! Kevan Shaw writes: > I have an '82 88" diesel which runs fine except it has a habit of chucking lots of oil out the breather on the rocker cover, particularly on long runs. I also had this problem. This mushroom like think on the top of the engine was loose. After using a new screw i don't loose so mutch oil there. :-) But there are other leaks too :-( Peter Signature: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter Landrover: http://zditr1.arcs.ac.at/~peter/LR From LTC Larry Smith Thu Dec 7 7:32:01 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 7:32:01 EST (1232Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: Overdrive and the sound of one hand clapping... Bill, Just a thought. I just got thru replacing the clutch sleeve on my OD unit. If you ar not familiar, this replaces the main gear on the Xmsn output shaft. It consists of a sleeve with roller bearings on the Xmsn end and splines on the OD end. The rollers carry the end of the OD input shaft while the splines mesh with female splines inside the OD input shaft. My OD unit sounded like severely battered U-Joints when coming to a stop. Exam showed the splines on the sleeve almost completely rolled over (like the teeth on a motorcycle sprocket with a worn chain). The only time this assy gets lube is bearing grease upon assembly. What you might have is the splines have completely let go. Only way I know to check w/o removing the OD is to block the wheels, take off the top plate on the Xmsn, the top plate off the OD, put the Xfer in neutral, and run both the Xmsn and OD thru the gears. If you have output from the Xmsn and no "pickup" with the OD input, the sleeve would be a good bet. Otherwise, lay away about an hour to remove the OD unit. Pretty straight forward. However, two of the nuts you have to remove are "capture" by the OD case. Have to work back and forth to remove. They do help to pull the case away from the Xfer case however. If you get a binding, move the OD shift lever back and forth several times to disengage the geh. On assembly, get everything back together as tightly as possible, and bump the starter to get the teeth to remesh for final seating of the OD unit (courtsey of Rovers North). Sorry for massive consumption of the bandwith. Larry From wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Thu Dec 07 16:19:32 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 16:19:32 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: "Scarved for live" explanation Bob( or is it Robert?) We have a saying here in the Netherlands for things that are rather expensive, wich goes "It costs me a rib out of my body" ( free translation ). So you can imagine, after buying a LandRover, that one get scarved with one rib less!( Two that is, the first one they used to create women ;-) and she cost me a rib already! ..oops how low can you go? Have to watch those ribs!) Regards, LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From SBeckey@sawgrass.racal.com Thu Dec 7 11:07:30 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:07:30 -0400 From: SBeckey@sawgrass.racal.com Subject: SE Oil Change Hi Ben: I saw your posting on the Landrover Owner digest. I've only got about 4K miles on my 4.0 SE, but its already been in to change the break-in oil. By then it was already leaking, which I guess we should expect. The dealer (Palm Beach Motors) happily refit the oil pan with new sealant. I'm sure you're aware there's a lot of controversy over synthetic oil. I clip- the following from an aviation newsletter URL: http://www.avweb.com/ that came today (this applies to aircooled piston aircraft engines): MOBIL AV-1 SUIT SETTLED A judge has approved a final settlement in the class action suit against Mobil for damage allegedly caused by it's AV-1 synthetic oil. Under the settlement, Mobil agreed to pay for repairs and downtime if owners can prove damage via a complex inspection protocol. Owners have until the end of February to file claims with Mobil. The argument seems to be that while synthetic oil is a great lubricant, it doesn't have the detergent / dispersal properties of the real thing. Teardowns were finding clumps of debris inside the engines after running synthetic oil. I've decided to keep mine running the regular oil, and just change often. If you haven't done it yet, there's also two recall notices (brake line & belt pulley) that will have to be done. It took an overnight stay to fix the various minor complaints. I am very happy with the car overall. Good luck with yours. Scott Beckey 95 4.0 SE From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 07 11:26:38 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 11:26:38 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: "Scarved for live" explanation We have a saying here in the Netherlands for things that are rather expensive, wich goes "It costs me a rib out of my body" ( free translation ). So you can imagine, after buying a LandRover, that one get scarved with one rib less!( Two that is, the first one they used to create women ;-) and she cost me a rib already! ..oops how low can you go? Have to watch those ribs!) ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarved for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) I still don't get it. You have to wear a scarf to stay alive? I thought those new Landies had better heaters. :-) -Dave "reaching" From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Thu Dec 07 11:37:47 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 11:37:47 -0600 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Buying Long Distance Its sounds like David Bobeck and I could exchange our experiences with little difficulty. Wierd. I also bought mine in upstate NY, Rochester, a little over a year ago. I first talked with the gentleman's son, who posted it. He pointed me to the mailing list and the FAQ, which I read, and told me that the frame of this beastie was "very sound". I also got a list of replaced parts, copies of reciepts for the parts, and photos in the mail. All looked pretty good. I also had some long phone calls with him on the state of the vehicle. At the time, I had never seen a Rover up close. So here was my logic: First, the guy was pointing me to the FAQ, so it didn't seem like he was trying to hide anything. Second, the vehicle was priced per the guidlines in the FAQ for a sound Rover of this vintage ($4500). Last, he seemed, based on our phone conversations, to have the "rover lingo" down - i.e. he talked like he knew what was going on. He also had it ready to go into Hemmings, but I bought it before it appeared. I flew out to look at it and bought it. What I got was a pretty good runner with a trashed frame - lots of patches, home-fab rear x-member, non-Rover rear springs, bad motor mounts. I blame myself mostly, if I would have had somebody go look at it I could have avoided lots of sweat and the soon to happen frame-over (which is what I was *trying* to aviod - major work). I do think the PO actually thought it was worth that, or at least I like to think that. No one likes to feel like they were purposly screwed. :-/ I drove it back to Minneapolis: no major problems - lost the generator before I hit Buffalo (bad wire), found the leak in the gas filler neck, burned lots of gas because the carb was adjusted poorly, etc. The PO had replaced most of the things that tend to fail or road trips - pumps and stuff like that. I also bought a simple "tune-up" kit, dist. cap, rotor, plugs, wires, hoses, belt, etc. Here's a tip on flying someplace and driving back - I called my airline and it wouldn't allow me to carry-on a toolbox. I was flying standby so no checked luggage. I don't know if I would check my tools anyway. After I bought this thing, I went to a local wal-mart and bought $200 worth of tools and left them all in their packages. I returned them all when I got back. :-) Thats my story. The distance didn't seen to be as much a problem as my ignorance of what I was getting into. I have a friend that works for an airline so I can fly pretty cheap - my flight out there was only $50, so the investment wasn't too great. I don't know if there is any wisdom in there or not. Basically, get someone you trust to look at it before you fly or drive any distance. Or be willing to sacrifce the cost of a plane ticket on a goose chase. Good luck, Tim --- tim harincar harincar@mooregs.com '66 IIa 88 SW From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 7 11:47:08 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:47:08 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Boxpops Steve Snip > However on depressing the 4WD selector it did not click into place, and instead rose straight back up again. Operating Hi to Low range had no effect and the selector rose again immediately. I have not had a chance to see if Low range and its automatic 4WD selection is operating properly. The selector has worked before as we had it in 4WD on the drive when we did some work on it, on going into Low range > it popped back up happy-as-larry. This since the gearbox recon? Snip I'd suggest with the range selector in high and your hubs engaged , jack up one rear wheel (assuming you don't have a diff lock) and see if you can drive off. If not, you know the front wheel drive unit isn't engaged. Which it might be if the selector shaft has come loose. If you can drive off, put it in low then back to high and try it again to make sure it's disengaing. I was told by a LR service guy many years ago it's not wise to drive in 4WD with the front hubs disengaged. The selector could be disconnected (maybe they forgot the cotter pin on refitting. Or it could be the stop in the FWD unit isn't engaging. Good luck. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From GElam30092@aol.com Thu Dec 7 13:10:19 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:10:19 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Receiver mounted winches You wrote: Any thoughts, comments, or experiences with receiver-mounted winches? I'm particularly interested in the Class III receiver mounted 8000lb Warn Winch (along with the Class III front receiver) listed in the latest Rovers North Catalog. I'd be installing said device in a 94 Disco. I have the same setup but I suspect the RN has it over-priced. If I had it to do over again, I would purchase the receiver from them and the winch from someone else. Works great. The receiver attaches to the frame where the front bumper attaches. This is the same attachment that the LRNA winch attaches to on the Discos. It can be mounted by one person but it is heavy and difficult to get the bolts lined with the holes by yourself. It does cut the approach angle significantly. All things considered, the winch stays nice and clean tucked away in the back. The bad news is that you need to secure it whenever you carry it around. (Mark Ritter, I think, mentioned using threaded holes with tie-downs from Northern Hydraulics in the rear floor of the Disco..theyre there and it was a super idea!. Or I use the seatbelts in the fold-down seats: perfect for holding a 5-gal cooler and the winch!) (Someone recently mentioned using an eye-attachment in a receiver on the rear to lift with a High Lift. I have the same eye-bolt. I see no reason why you couldnt lift the front with the front receiver too. You would be lifting from the middle however.) I also purchased a long Warn electrical cable to run to the rear of my Disco. You never know when it might be advantageous to pull back rather than pull forward! Gerry (likes his parentheses) Elam From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Thu Dec 7 10:42:38 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 10:42:38 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: Re: Buying Long Distance (LONG) Here's what I went through to aquire my 109 which I picked up last week. I called about 20 different people regarding thier land rovers which were for sale all over the country. Many of the things said regarding East Coast vehicles are true. Case in point: I had a line on a cherry NADA 6 which was previously owned by Billy Joel (actually by Christie Brinkley, but that's another story). It was on Martha's Vinyard and was supposedly in great 'restored' shape. I happen to have a good relationship with Mike Smith of East Coast Rovers, and asked him if he'd go down and do an official appraisal on the truck. He agreed, went down and the truck checked out extremely well in every regard save one. Yep, you guessed it. Patched and cracked frame. The asking price was 19,000. When he figured out I knew more about Rovers than he did (mind you this was a 3rd party selling and not Mr. Joel) his price dropped to 16,8. I had him shoot some photos, faxed a list of things I wanted him to show, etc... He returned 4 blurry photos taken on a disposable camera and they looked ok, considering... I mailed him my final offer of 13K citing a replacement frame was in order and explained a few of the costs involved. Not to mention a cross country drive, which in a LR was sure to be long. He called back a week later with a final counter offer of 15,5. I held at 13. He said that in two weeks it was going to be put up for the winter. I figured that if it was there next summer I'd offer him 12 and see what he said. A call to East Coast Rover about a month ago verified that it did indeed sell for 13,500. I guess after my offer he figured out that it wasn't worth what they were asking. Moral of that story: Have a QUALIFIED appraiser look at the car. Don't be afraid to dicker and haggle, and most important, don't be afraid to say NO. I'm glad I did. So, I found out through Gord'n Parrot about a guy near Seattle who had a 109 that he was hesitant to sell, but might have to due to unforseen circumstances. I called him up and asked him about his truck. He said that he'd had a lot of work done on it by Gord'n (who BTW in case you don't know is practically the best mechanic in the PNW), and wasn't sure if he wanted to sell. He was going to have the engine rebuilt, and even if he didn't he'd be somewhere between 10 and 11. I decided to wait and see how it panned out. Besides, I had plenty of leads on other trucks to follow. About 2 months later I saw an ad in the Oregonian with a 109 in Washington for sale at 10K. I didn't remember the ph# so I called. When he heard my voice and I said I was from Portland he reminded me that I'd spoken to him before (duh, now I feel really stupid), and began to recite all the stuff he'd had done since we talked (1200 bucks worth). So, I hurried up and drove to Seattle (he said he had other people coming) not wanting to let this one slip out from under me. While I was up there I went and saw Gord'n about the truck and he told me about all the work he'd done to it for the seller. I was impressed, and Gord'n told me that he was actually kind of mad that it was being sold. I think he had kind of a personal attatchment to it since he had done most of the work to it. Well, I went and saw it, drove it and put down a thousand bucks with a contract to return after thanksgiving with the balance. When I went to pick it up the seller looked very forlorn ( a good sign I figured that he was parting with a good truck) and I tried to ease the pain by taking him cash. I got the title, he got the money and I headed back to Gord'n's for the 500 mile engine rebuild oil change. A few people were there that knew the truck, knew the owner, and were just amazed at the price I was getting the truck for. Since I had the admiration of fellow Rover owners, not to mention the mechanic who had done all the work on it, I was feeling pretty good. I'm thrilled about the truck, and what's more, I didn't have to fly anywhere to get it, truck it back on a dolly, or have it shipped. I struck an even balance of good truck at the right price in the right location. Granted, I could have gotten an east coast truck at a cheaper price, but I wouldn't have the luxury of seeing it inexpensively, getting it home cheaply, and last but definitely not least, I would't know who did the work on it. I put a heap of trust in Gord'n, and he comes very highly reccomended by people in Portland. Oh, I'm also a firm believer in buying a truck (if you can) that someone else has put all the money into and driving it away knowing you have a solid rig. Even if it means paying a little extra. I must say though, that I don't have a garage, any fancy tools to work on a truck with, and my time is at a premium right now and I couldn't do a lot of work on a partial truck. So, for me a decent turn-key Rover that someone had the misfortune of having to sell was a great compromise. Now I've started the first major project which is to take apart the doors, strip them down to bare metal (the door frames that is), get rid of all the rust, prime and re-paint. Probably have to rattle-can the thing at first then spring for real paint later. I hope I have't bitten off more than I can chew. BTW is there a good way to recondition interior door trim? Probably better just to buy new. :( Sorry this was long, but if you read it this far you can only blame yourself :) Later, Michael From ey-postmaster@geis.com Thu Dec 7 18:04:00 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 18:04:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 7598364 Original Msg Id: 482990 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Thu 7-Dec-95 18:04 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From Bennett Leeds Thu Dec 7 11:22:31 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 11:22:31 PST From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Disco Musings: Nits, problems, a recommendation, and some fun I've had my Disco almost a month now. Some nits that I haven't seen discussed before: 1) I wish the wheel base were 1" longer. The rear seat fits between the wheel wells rather than in front of them. No problem for adults, but child seats slide off the carpeted well housing, thus moving them towards the center 5-6". Thus, with 2 car seats back there, the middle spot is too tight for anyone under 6 years of age. (I understand what extending the wheel base would do to off-road performance.) 2) It's really hard to put car seats in the Disco. On most vehicles, you can thread the belt in, then pull to tighten it before you put the locking clip on. That doesn't work on the Disco - the belt doesn't slide either way when latched. The jump seats have a squeeze operated mechanism, but car seats aren't safe back there. 3) Sunroof switches are not illuminated. Surely a low-level glow wouldn't distract driving (doesn't on my other car with it). 4) Illogical layout and workings of other controls has already been discussed, but I'll add for '96s with fog lamps that the front fog lamp switch and the rear fog lamp switch are nowhere near each other. I think someone oddling the car is going to break my ashtray from trying to pull it out first someday. Problems: At about 2100 miles the "Check Engine" light came on. I was about 400 miles from home, but luckily there was a Land Rover center not too far (in Thousand Oaks, CA). They could not find what was wrong, however. Engine was running perfectly, I did not run out of gas at any time, and I was not traveling over 80 MPH for more than 20 minutes (the 3 major causes of the light coming on). Turns out that the "Check Engine" light is connected to the diagnostic systems for emissions (which are, I believe, required for '96 and beyond in US), so their guess is that the emissions dropped below standards for a brief spell. I have a funny feeling this will be the first of a large number of stops by the dealership to have my Check Engine light reset. And, a small assortment of so far minor problems. Fun: As my fellow LR owners rightly chide me, I haven't taken my Disco off road for anything more than some jaunts in the dirt and hills. While my Disco was being checked out, I walked around the center some. Next door was a Hummer dealership. The CTIS (Central Tire Inflation System) looked cool (among other things) but it sure looks cramped in those front seats (not to mention being so far apart from each other). Ooddles of ground clearance, of course. In front of the Rover center, however, they had a short man-made "road" built (actually, a man-made off-road). 30 degree hills, 8" high rocks, railroad ties etc. It was blocked by a few cars. After my car was ready, I asked if the track was just for show. Next thing I know, they've moved the cars, the general manager introduces himself, and we're in my Disco heading for it. How'd I do? Lousy. I now know why auto trans are better for off-road (mine's a stick). A few stalls and one minor frame scrape the first time through (the GM even correctly guessed what had scraped). I noticed from the brochure that 1st in the manual is geared lower than first in the auto - but the auto has got a torque converter to make up for that. I imagine a big help just worrying about brake and gas and not stalling. Only one stall, but much smoother the second time. Trick was to almost never use the clutch - to keep the vehicle moving at all times (and first in low is pretty slow at 1K rpm). My second time was nothing to write home about, but it was 100% better than my first pass. In one way the forced discipline to keep going actually helped me out. I jokingly asked if the neighboring dealers wanted to take Monteros or Troopers, etc. through the course. He smiled and said they hadn't yet asked him. I did notice that the track wasn't wide enough for a Hummer, though. Everyone one at the Thousand Oaks Center was very friendly. They answered all my questions, looked things up for me that were completely unrelated to the service, etc. - even though they knew I was No. CA. Of course, they washed my car. I hear that San Jose is going to be a LR Center as well. That's great, but the people at the Thousand Oaks dealership are much better, both from their LR knowledge as well as from their disposition. Maybe they have a harder time selling the cars - I noticed more than a couple of '95 Discos still on the lot - that's too bad. - Bennett '96 Disco 5 spd. From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Thu Dec 7 11:36:50 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:36:50 -0800 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Roof Rack Load Limits Rover Netizens: There's been much discussion about load limits on roof racks. Most of the questions have been about the load limits for racks mounted on new breeds of Land-Rovers. What I have to say pertains to racks mounted on the rain gutters of Series Land-Rovers (and Defenders that have metal roofs). Ever wonder what actually happens when you overload a rack? Well, I did overload one and know what happened. I have a custom-made expedition rack for an 88. It is somewhat longer than the roof. It mounts to the rain gutter via machine screws through holes in the gutter, up into the bottoms of the legs of the rack (via welded-in captive nuts) (an arrangement that I don't like and plan to change before I put in on another Land-Rover). This rack is quite substantial, made of 1/2" x 1" rectangular steel tubing, painted rather than galvanized (and now rather rusty). All legs are angle-braced along the sides and the end legs are gusseted to the cross rails as well. Until I bought a pickup truck for work use, I had to use my Land-Rover 88 and either a trailer or my roof rack to haul everything. I was at the local lumber yard getting a load of particle board underlayment. Anyone who's messed with it knows this stuff is quite heavy. I don't remember now how many sheets I put up there but quite a few, say maybe 15 sheets of 5/8" particle board. It looked OK when loaded. But by the time I got home (only about 6-8 blocks away) damage had occurred. Some of the angle braces (only at the ends of the rack) were stressed out so that they became more hexagonal than rectangular (they are still that way). But worse than that was the damage to the Land-Rover roof. The side panels of the roof were too stressed under all that weight and had to give somewhere. The somewhere is the lower corners of the openings of the sliding side windows. The aluminum sheeting cracked at these corners. And I think there was some very slight stress evident on the back corners of the roof sides, as well. Nothing fatal: The sliding windows still worked OK and the damage was not conspicuous. Still, not something you'd want to do to a really cherry Rover. Mine was a working vehicle and I was still not pleased. I'd rather get my panel damage the time-honored way, out on the trail, thank you very much. Of course, the load I put on it at the lumber yard is way beyond the sort of load I'd even remotely consider putting on my rack for trail driving. I have carried four jerry cans (6-US gallon) of fuel and one (6-US gallon) of water plus a good pile of other gear and then gotten up and walked around on it (235 lbs clothed and booted) with no ill effects. And I found it pretty stable driving, too, with my wide tires (10.50s on 8" rims). So these roofs can take a lot of weight but do have limits. YMMV. Cheers, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Thu Dec 7 12:44:27 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 12:44:27 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: re: buying Land Rovers >A third trend, at least in CA, is that pre-1966 Rovers don't have to be >Smogged. As Smog laws get tougher and tougher, those Rovers, or atleast >the serial numbers thereof, will have more valuable. How many "pre-1966 SIIA" >SIIIs have you seen lately? I have some questions. While it is true that the series Land Rovers are very rare in North America, is it true that they are very common in the UK, and in the UK, they're pretty cheap to buy/run? This is the impression I got after reading a British Land Rover magazine. Also, is anyone familiar with the California Laws? Since pre-66 cars are smog exempt, does that mean one can import a pre-66 vehicle from the UK without government interference? Sometimes I feel pretty fed up with all the U.S. regulations in what's supposely a free country. Seems like all the fun cars are in England, while all we get here are Toyota Camry's and Ford Taurus'! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 08 07:55:00 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 07:55:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Galvanising and junior framemaster James Thanks for all that info. I'm in a bit of a quandary as to whether I should galvanise or not at the moment. Yesterday I spoke with a number of Land Rover types here in Sydney and the general consensus was "you just don't need to do it". As you pointed out we don't have salted roads, and the metal has to be spotlessly clean to avoid any little pockets of rust being trapped. I have yet to be convinced this is the way to go. One chap (who has 20!!! Series 1's including a handful of '48's [one of which is 1208 - 1206 sold for 30,000 pounds in the UK earlier this year]) suggested that if you are rebuilding to 'factory spec' you would certainly loose points for having a galvanised chassis and that a good blasting (sand or bead) job was sufficient. Any thoughts out there on the subject?? Hope that all makes sense, we had our company Christmas party last night and the brains only firing on two at the moment!! Beer and red wine really don't mix well!! ....and I walked home! Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) ---------- From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Dec 07 14:03:34 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 14:03:34 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!) FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!) Ray, I don't have a lot of time to answer any specific questions right now, but this is a posting that I made after buying my 109 in New York state and driving it back home to Arizona. BTW, the frame was described to me as "good", and there were actually holes in it, and parts that I poked my finger through! Best to have a LR owner check it out for you! There are people all over the world on this list, I had another in NY offer to drive 2+ hours each way to check this one out for me, but I declined. I've checked out two LR's here in the Phoenix area for others, one was a '56 series I (I found in the paper, SHOULD have bought this one myself!) that the guy bought and LOVES, the other is a Carawagon (sort of like a Doormobile) that I think is still for sale. ($13K but in excellent condition!) ======================== included text ============================== Hello all! I've been looking for a Land Rover 109 for many months, and had finally found the "perfect" truck. It's a 1970 series IIa Land Rover, dual heaters, seating for 11 people. Good condition, with only a few minor tears in the upholstery, and a small tear in the headliner ("L" shaped with each leg around 1"). Door panels with map pockets, overdrive, rebuilt trans, not that much rust, (one of the outriggers is rusted through, but still relatively solid, and one front "horn" section of the frame has some relatively serious rust.) Only noticeable problem areas were that the fuel gauge and speedometer/odometer didn't work, and rear heater not working, and one unmistakable problem that I could not possibly "live with" was the brakes. It took two pumps of the petal before ANY brake action took place! It was a scary event just trying to stop at the end of the driveway! I assumed that it was bleeding, but decided to take it in and have it checked out by Rovers north in Vermont, since it was right on the way! Oh yeah! One "minor" complication.... I live in Phoenix Arizona, and the truck is in upstate New York! The actual sale had a rough beginning for me. The PO sent photos, I e-mailed back, he answered questions, etc... and then when I was ready to say yes, he'd sold it! Well... eventually the deal fell through, and I was able to acquire it, so a few faxes, check in the mail, plane tickets (I took my 15 yr old son), and we were there! (This REALLY is much condensed!) We arrived late in the afternoon on Tuesday May 2nd, so the first night I only went as far as Burlington Vermont, so I could stop in at Rovers North in the morning. My son and I took turns sleeping in the rear, and front seat of the 109. The front seat is WAY too short for sleeping in but worked for now. In the morning, I got directions to Rovers North, and off we went. I passed up Rovers North, and my son shouted "There it is!", so I had to turn around in a farmers field. Rovers North is in the "middle of nowhere" along a road, in a barn! That's not quite what I expected, or was looking for, but what the heck! The people at RN were very helpful, and we had a very pleasant experience there. I told them of the brake problem, and they informed me that they had a waiting list for service of around 6 weeks! DOOH!! I explained the situation, and the service manager called out his mechanic to check it out. One step of the petal and he informed me that it wasn't bleeding. He drove off, and left me in suspense, but I figured, well, what ever it was, I had to have it done, so I waited. It wasn't difficult waiting, as there were numerous Rovers to examine, 88's, 109's, military units, 110's, even an imported 110 (1989, I think) for sale! I was drooling! I'd never seen one that was not the US spec sold in '93. One of their staff, Lanny, who was off for that day had stopped by, and he knew the PO, and even the PO prior to that, and recollected that this Rover came from Buines Aries? (I think?? Or was that Bahama? Bermuda maybe?? Bolivia?? Darn my memory!!! &-%$&-!!) This verifies the suspicions of the PO that I bought it from, and explains the Mexican and central American maps that were in it when he bought it. (Also, the speedometer is in kilometers/hr.) After a short while, (seemed really short, anyway, but could have been a long time, as I was totally occupied talking to the guys, and checking out all the Rovers) the truck was ready. "Oh! What was wrong?" I asked. The brakes only needed adjusting! They also noticed that the rear drive shaft (propeller shaft) had the wrong bolts, and caused a lot of play. They replaced these as well, and told me that the rear end had a lot of play, and eventually would need replacing or rebuilt. I didn't want to do too much rough 4-wheeling with the truck being so far from home, but near Rovers North, I found some sandy little trails meant for 3 wheelers and quads, but I couldn't resist the temptation to give the old girl a spin in the dirt. Well, I didn't need to put her in 4 wheel drive, but had a fun time going through the trails. Some were a series of hills, around 3 feet tall, spaced about 8 feet apart. Lots of wheel articulation! The old girl did very well, but creaked and clunked with each bump due to the spring mounting bushings being bad. Sounded kind of like a *loud* popcorn maker! Would have been embarrassing had anyone been around. ;-) I had been warned by the PO that the fuel gauge didn't work, but that there was a little warning when it started to run out. Well, as luck would have it, a few miles after passing a fuel station, it started to sputter. Remembering what the PO had said, I quickly attempted a 3 point turn (did I mention the turning radius was 47 feet!?? No joke!) I totally died when the truck was almost perpendicular to the road, and inclined at a fairly good angle with the front on the high side. Walked to town and returned with a gallon. Still nothing. Presuming that there was just not enough to get to the fuel pick up, I went with my son, and we brought back 2 more gallons. Still nothing. Hmmmm.... By now, I think I flooded it, and the battery was beginning to show serious signs of fatigue! Some "locals" stopped to help, and offered to pull start us with a cable that they had. This started it right up, but then when I pulled over on a LEVEL part of the shoulder, it once again died! Now wait just a doggone minute! This CAN'T be a fuel problem! Well, back to basics... I popped the distributor cap, and voilla! the wire to the points was disconnected, and just hanging there, only making sporadic contact. It took all of about 90 seconds to find the problem, and only a few minutes to fix, and she started right up. Total time "wasted"about 4 hours. Bought a 5 gallon fuel can at the next available city, "just in case". Well, on we went, towards Mt. Washington (recommended by "Lanny" at Rovers North). We arrived at Mt. Washington around 6:00pm, and the "auto road" to the top was closed. Well... a slight change of plans, we proceeded to Cameron Maine since neither of us had ever been to the Atlantic ocean. Saw the ocean, (but overslept, and missed the sunrise) and after around half a day, went back to Mt. Washington. This time, we arrived before closing, and took the "auto road" to the "top". Around half way up, the road was CLOSED! What??? But I have a Land Rover! I can make it! Sigh.... no understanding, these park ranger dude's. Well, still, it was pretty. VERY steep road too! The admission charge included a tape of facts about the road and such things. Even mentioned "A" 4 wheel drive vehicle that was the first to make it to the top in the dead of winter without snow chains (or something like that), but neglected to say that it was a Land Rover!!! Boy! I was "slightly irritated"! WE proceeded via the "Kancamagus Highway" and then, onwards to Montreal Canada. Montreal was a BEAUTIFUL city, as far as modern buildings, lit up reflecting on the river and all, but everyone seemed to drive VERY fast! (And I thought I was a fast driver!) All road signs in French, (not a language I can read or write), and expensive petrol, (at least by US standards) I went directly to Sault Ste. Marie to cross over to northern Michigan. I planned out the fuel purchase so that I was real near empty (as far as I could figure) when I left Canada, so I got the first fuel I could find in the US. Little did I realize at the time, but I left the fuel cap in Northern Michigan somewhere. :-( I must have been "sleeping" when I was in Michigan, because I missed the turn off to go towards Wisconsin, and crossed into Michigan on the wrong side of lake Michigan. I was clueless, until I saw a sign saying "Detroit 200 miles". SCREEEEEECH! (Well, the sound of brakes squeaking, not tires! Talk about "anti-lock" brakes!) One u-turn (not the only one on the trip!) and another toll, several more hours wasted, and we were on the right track! Once in Wisconsin, at my sister's farm in Fall River, near Madison, I was able to fix the fuel gauge, (a broken connecter on the sending unit) and the rear heater (wire that was once spliced had come loose), and decided to install a throttle lock (aka "cruise control") that I removed from the other Rover I have at home. (Yes! Robed it from the "88".) Fate once again took her toll, (What I deserve for cannibalizing the "88") and I drilled through the clutch line to the slave cylinder. Dooh!! Had to wait until Monday for parts store to open, then had to re-use my line ends and they made a "new" line for me. To add insult to injury, the throttle lock wouldn't fit right, so it never got installed. The remainder of the trip was rather uneventful, lots of beautiful sights, snow, lots of people staring at the Rover... a great time! Total distance traveled (using milage charts, and adding numbers on maps) over 4600 miles! Not bad for a 25 year old truck! (Am I dumb? Or what??) Land Rover sightings other than at Rovers North: 1-88 (vermont) 1-109 (Vermont-red, parked behind a barn) 1-Disco in Montreal, and 1-110 in Moab Utah, (#466/500) (I can't wait to get back to Moab Utah. Very beautiful!) and about 12-18 Range Rovers. (One RR owner offered to trade, but I don't think he was really serious.) Trip statistics: (somewhat estimated) ;-) # of vehicles that I passed, around 12 (many of these re-passed me on the level roads.) # of vehicles that passed me: 550. Maximum speed: 80ish? downhill. Minimum speed up steep hills: around 25, 2nd gear, floored. (Actually, on a long hill climb, 3rd was too slow, and 2nd would wind out, so I ended up at around 3/4 throttle in 2nd.) (This didn't make a lot of people very happy with me!) :( And offers to buy the ole gal: 2, one was very serious! Why doesn't anyone want my Disco?? Thanks for the ear... Dave. #=====# #========# ------,___ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--'| | \_|_ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _|--+--|_ | "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\__|__/_\_|} (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (for sale $30,500) (Too hard to "draw") #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead =========================== end of included text ========================= I forgot to mention in the original posting, but the ONLY tools I brought with were: 1 phillips screwdriver, 1 regular screwdriver, pliers, vice grips, and a hammer. I had heard talk of "whitworth threads" and figured none of the wrenches I had would fit anyway. Reminds me of "Forest Gump" "Stupid is as stupid does." But I did bring one vital thing... God! Having no radio provides a lot of opportunity to pray. Please feel free to e-mail me if you have any more questions. Am I glad I bought the 109? YES!!! What can I say! I'm a Land Rover owner! (AKA CRAZY!) Dave Brown debrown@srp.gov #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") rear Lock-Right #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Treit Le 7 95 Dec 1914 Date: 7 Dec 95 14:14:45 From: Treit Le Subject: Miscellaneous So I just dropped the '95 Classic for it's first oil change at 5K miles. And to get some squeaks, rattles, and the dreaded cellular phone call blocking wind noise taken care of. My receipt for the squeaks and rattles is 5 pages long!!! On the plus side they gave me a 20k mile Pathfinder as a loaner. Kinda wimpy. I definitely feel like I made the right choice. There were a few D90 hardtops at the dealer. All white, all $32,625 with no options. Dunno how many were sold. The top seems to be fiberglass, not aluminum using the knuckle test. Am I wrong? Reason why IIA's in the US should not appreciate that much in price - Can't they be imported from England with much BS because of their age? Where parts, gavanized frames and restorations are more reasonably priced and readily available. I figured on getting a real cheap RHD D110 or CT Defender in about 20 years. From Kevan Shaw Sun Dec 17 21:54:08 1995 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 21:54:08 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Jacking Points Robert Virzi asked that I post the info about Disco jacking points: The company is NSC Design, 1 Mid Road Industrial Estate, Prestonpans, East Lothian EH32 9ER Scotland, Phone, +44 1875 815400, answerphone on this number so leave a message. The company is run by a keen Disco driver who I have seen take his vehicle places where only a trials motor should go! Apart from the jacking points he does bridging ladders, ground anchor pickets and hold fasts and numerous other recovery bits. The last list I have prices the jacking points at =A331 whics is less than $50, much better than those chain lifting things that bend bumpers! Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Dec 7 17:59:56 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:59:56 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Things that go bump in the night On the way home last evening from the grocery (I didn't think I was carrying *that* much beer) on a straight-and-level road 100' from the house, I heard a disturbing "karunch" from the left rear. "That sounds like the spring hanger parting company," sez I. It was. :-0 Not that it was any surprise...I've had a galvanized rear cross member sitting in the garage for well over two years from now. I just didn't want to go though the exercise *right now.* Anyway...any tips and techniques on replacing the rear cross member would be appreciated. I've got the usual compliment of air tools, a big angle grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one of the club chaps. Charlie Haigh at RN says you *don't* have to take off the rear body tub to weld a bead across the top of the frame...but to tell the truth, I can't see how that's possible. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Dec 07 15:25:42 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:25:42 +0000 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: 25 yr old Rover's 4600+ mile "maiden" voyage. (LONG!) Dave, Great story!! Always wondered what it would be like to go east and pick up a 109. You had a lot of confidence in the Rover to go 4,600 mi, and apparently well deserved. Good goin' :) Cheers, ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay 510-988-0900 [________] Land-Rover 4x4 cs@crl.com ___________.._(o)__.(o)_____...o^^^^ '65 IIA 2.235m (was 88) _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover 4x4 Connection WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From Ray Harder Thu Dec 7 17:47:40 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 17:47:40 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Alexander P. Grice wrote: > Subject: Things that go bump in the night > Anyway...any tips and techniques on replacing the rear cross member would be [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one > of the club chaps. 1. you can get (at least i did) a version of the same cutoff blades for the big electric grinder that fit into the little air cutoff tool. they really can cut metal close and FAST. i can chalk out a small area using a short piece of 3/32" 2" or 3" strap as a pattern. I cut it out with the electric grinder setup. i then use a magnet designed for welding to hold the piece of 2" / 3" strap into place. there is about a 1/8" gap which is perfect for butt welding. grind down the welds, paint, and you can't see it, yet it is strong. with these tools, gas ox/ac cutting is not needed. 2. the "guide to purchase and restoring a landrover" book has a section on rear crossmember replacement. one thing they did that i didn't was to fashon a jig from angle iron. it was positioned when the old crossmember was still on and accurately held the position (of the tailgate hinge holes, for example) for reassembly. i made x/y measurements with a steel tape, but their method is superior. Lindsey Porter was the author... 3. if you do take the tub off or lift it up some, you can use method #1 above to replace some weak areas that might be in the top (or bottom) of the longitutional members of the frame near the rear spring mounts. 4. the rear crossmember i got had pre-installed tabs that help in attaching. at the time, i was wondering how you could do it without the tabs. i was un-impressed with the guage of metal -- i would have used thicker, but that was then. ray harder (siia 88 (lulu)) (the money is in the mail for ROAV membership!) From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Dec 07 15:55:29 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 15:55:29 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Roof Rack Load Limits Granville Pool wrote: [Damage to Series/Defender LRs via overloaded roof racks] But worse than that was the damage to the Land-Rover roof. The side panels of the roof were too stressed under all that weight and had to give somewhere. The somewhere is the lower corners of the openings of the sliding side windows. The aluminum sheeting cracked at these corners. And I think there was some very slight stress evident on the back corners of the roof sides, as well. Come to think of it, I recently noticed the same damage on mine. But I'm fairly sure that the damge came from striking a thick tree branch (8+ inches in diameter) with the rack while driving off road at Hollister. I think the LR book for Africa (don't have a copy on my desk--its at home) lists a suggested roof rack limit of 100 or 200 lbs for Series LRs. Not saying that the limit is strength limited, but due to roll over risks. Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Gary Mitchelson Thu Dec 07 19:17:41 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 19:17:41 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: 10,000 miles on Discovery -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Well, I've passed the 10,000 mile mark on my '95 Disco. To date I have not had a problem with it. Am I doing something wrong? It has only been off-road 4 times so far. Can't wait for the snow. -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Thu Dec 7 20:01:13 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:01:13 -0500 From: ecrover@midcoast.com (Mike Smith) Subject: Galv. parts In reference to the recent talk about galvanising your own chassis. I agree with all the discussion about removing paint, etc.. The only three things I would like to add that we have heard of, and experienced are... > Be very thorough in your rust repair. The acid step in the galv. process eats rust, even the rust you can't see. Make sure your repaired chassis is ready, with everything made as good as you can make it. > We have had some minor problems with damaged parts. Most galv. companies are set up as large industrial businesses, and they do parts like light poles, gaurd rails, etc. tons at a time. Some campanies are small enough to be careful with your parts, but make sure you tell them that your frame is sort of fragile, and needs to return in the same form you drop it off in. On my trips to the galv. company we use, I have seen quite a few things dropped from fork lifts, dragged across parking lots, etc.. Make sure you give them special instructions to be careful. > You also need to locate any air pockets, closed off areas, in your frame. This is what causes the explosions and bulging talked about by another contributor. If you find a closed off section, drill a few holes in it, this will help eliminate bulging or possible damage. Good luck, and happy galvanising! Mike Smith, East Coast Rover Co. From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Thu Dec 7 20:31:14 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 20:31:14 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night >On the way home last evening from the grocery (I didn't think I was carrying >*that* much beer) on a straight-and-level road 100' from the house, I heard [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >appreciated. I've got the usual compliment of air tools, a big angle >grinder, a small air-power cutoff tool and can borrow a MiG welder from one >of the club chaps. Sandy, The best advice I could give you is to make sure you have a respirator with the right filters and a well ventilated area before you start welding the new galvanized member on. The vapors from molten zinc are very dangerous. (My money is not in the mail yet for a ROAV membership) Cheers, Randall From Duncan Brown Thu Dec 07 21:58:23 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 21:58:23 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Things that go bump in the night Sandy, > Charlie Haigh at RN says you *don't* have to take off the rear body tub to > weld a bead across the top of the frame...but to tell the truth, I can't see > how that's possible. You're right, it isn't possible. And yet, Randy at RN managed to do just that when he welded my new rear crossmember on at the last rally they had up there 3 years ago or whenever that was. The real trick is doing it with the wiring harness in place. He only lit it on fire once, and then only briefly, heh heh... You might see if they'll let you talk to Randy, I'm sure he can describe his technique in better detail than I can. I do have some before-during-after pictures of him doing mine if it would help you to see those. Duncan From TONY YATES Fri Dec 8 11:35:52 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:35:52 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: re: buying Land Rovers On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 rpeng@cadev6.intel.com wrote: > I have some questions. While it is true that the series Land Rovers are > very rare in North America, is it true that they are very common in the > UK, and in the UK, they're pretty cheap to buy/run? This is the impression > I got after reading a British Land Rover magazine. Series Land Rovers are fairly common in Oz (though not as common as in UK), are usually in pretty good condition (they don't rust here, at least not in Western Australia), and are reasonably priced. There are usually a few in the weekend classifieds in Perth each week, priced anywhere from A$1000 to $8000 depending on age and condition. (A$8000 will buy a very nice SIII, current exchange rate I think is around A$1=US$0.67). Parts here are reasonable, though a bit more expensive than UK, and are easy to obtain. We are pretty lucky here as far as rust goes. I would think that galvanising would be unnecessary. Both IIas I have owned were 20 years old with only small rust patches on the rear X-member and front dumb irons on the first and *no* rust at all on the second. Went to Karijini National Park last weekend. Not much 4wding to be had, it was just too dry, though some of the tracks and creek crossings looked like they might be interesting after a bit of rain. The country is basically rugged gorges, hot nad very dry, although most of the gorges have water in them, even now which is the end of the dry season. We hiked along a few and had swims in a few nice pools. It was hot. Daytime temps were around 47C(120F), and it was 35C(98F) in the tent at midnight. One of the pools, Handrail Pool, is accessed by walking through a very narrow chasm, 3ft wide, 150ft high, which opens up into an amphitheatre about 150ft across full of water. Very nice when it's stinking hot and you desperately need a swim, not very nice when it's guarded by a very aggro western brown snake (rather poisonous). =:-( It was also very hot driving home the next day, temp gauge sat just over half which I thought was pretty good, but I really must get that A/C fixed!!!! Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||_______________________|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| ----- ----- ===================================================================== From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Dec 07 23:35:57 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 23:35:57 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Al waters his oil... > What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and > routing it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3 > wire ties. This way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to > ingest water......double ick! - No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the frame... Cheers Mike From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Dec 7 23:51:51 1995 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 23:51:51 -0500 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: How many are left ?? All; I was wondering if anybody out there would have any idea as to how many 1960's 5 door 109's are left in the states ??? Same goes for SWB slll 's anybody have any idea.??..... Which will be worth more in the future???? any thoughts, comments appreciated Thanks..........Holiday Cheer to All Steve WA2GMC 72 s lll 88 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Dec 8 16:14:04 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:14:04 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: breather pipe routing > No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose > from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the > frame... No No Mike you've still got it wrong! Dont try to weasel out of it by blaming dixon either.. What *I* do is run a 19mm piece of poly pipe the length of the vehicle terminating Very close to the end of the exhaust pipe. That way you cant distinguish the blow-by from exhaust smoke, and you dont have to explain to Mr Plod why you have oil leaking from the chassis below the drivers door. cheers -- Daryl From Benjamin Allan Smith Thu Dec 07 22:38:21 1995 Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 22:38:21 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: How many are left ?? In message <199512080452.XAA04080@butler.uk.stratus.com>you wrote: > All; I was wondering if anybody out there would have any idea as to how > many 1960's 5 door 109's are left in the states ??? Same goes for SWB slll 's > anybody have any idea.??..... Which will be worth more in the future???? > any thoughts, comments appreciated If we could get the parts vendors to agree to let a neutral party pool thier databases, we'd have a good guess. But the likelyhood of that happening is very small, at best. In general, the guess is that 16,000 Series Land Rovers were imported to North America up to 1974. Since then there have been various Series Rovers imported, but I have no idea as to the quauntity. A gut feel guess, based on zero data would be no more than 50 per year (on average), making the total number of Series Rovers imported to be about 17,000. A number of years ago the guess was the between 8,000 and 12,000 of the origional 16,000 imported were left, with maybe 4,000 registers for road use. Lately there have been a lot of restorations, so that number may be significantly up. Now to the question at hand. For the period of 1959 to 1963 there are no records asto how many Rovers were sold in North America. In 1964, 952 were sold. In the period of 1949 to 1958 the best guess by the experts are that about 100 Rovers were sold per year. James Taylor claims that the 952 sale number was greater than previous years. In 1965, 1840 Rovers were sold in NA. So in 1960, somewhere between 100 and 900 Rovers were sold, many of which I think were 88s. So, the upper bound would have to be 300 (plus additional imports). *My* guess is 100 or 200 to start with, and an unknown number have survived. What data is known is listed in the FAQ: http://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/OVLR/FAQ.3.LR_sales_US.html or ftp://owens.ridgecrest.ca.us/pub/users/bens/FAQ/LR_FAQ.3 (If you know of any addition concrete data, please send it to Dixon or I so we can update the FAQ.) If only I could grep through the various DMV databases for the 50 states on the word Rover.... Just to put all of this in prespective LRNA's goals for US sales in 1995 was 12,000 Discos, 5,000 Range Rovers (mk2), 1,500 D90s and 1,900 Range Rover Classics. (This was in either LRO or LRW a few months back). I wonder how close they made it. Maybe Jim Pappas could clue us in... Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From TONY YATES Fri Dec 8 14:37:48 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:37:48 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: breather pipe routing On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Daryl Webb wrote: > No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose > from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the > frame... No No Mike you've still got it wrong! Dont try to weasel out of it by blaming dixon either.. What *I* do is run a 19mm piece of poly pipe the length of the vehicle terminating Very close to the end of the exhaust pipe. That way you cant distinguish the blow-by from exhaust smoke, and you dont have to explain to Mr Plod why you have oil leaking from the chassis below the drivers door. Even better - inject the blow-by into the exhaust, ignite it, and you have - *afterburner* Tony (supersonic) 110 V8. From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Fri Dec 8 17:53:20 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:53:20 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: breather pipe routing Tony advises: > Even better - inject the blow-by into the exhaust, ignite it, and you > have - *afterburner* Thought about the inject bit but I figured the plastic pipe would melt, and there was no way I was going to use anything morFrom wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Fri Dec 08 09:06:57 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 09:06:57 +0001 From: wassili@AMC.UVA.NL (Roy Wassili) Subject: Re: "Scarved for live" should be "Scarred .." > alive? I thought those new Landies had better > heaters. :-) > -Dave "reaching" Well, I had it all wrong! :-( So, there were I wrote scarved you have to read scarred. I hope it makes sense now. LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR*LR ____ | _____/|__|| Roy Wassili, | /(-8| \ | Avalon Green '95 Discovery, VG-XH-66 ____|_/[]__|__\___|# scarred for live |] __=| | __ |# [|_/ \|_____|_/ \_|] ( o ) ( o ) From "geoffrey.m.halaburt" 7 95 Dec 1922 Date: 7 Dec 95 22:16:28 From: "geoffrey.m.halaburt" Subject: Re: 94 D90 Misc. >> Re: Roofracks. There has been a recent thread on Disco roof racks. Does anyone have the D90 LRNA/Thule roof rack system. I saw it advertised in the Rovers North Christmas flyer--it attaches to the roll cage above the doors, a novel idea. I am wondering if they will continue to make this base unit much longer, given the lack of production of the D90 in the future. I.e. should buy one soon, or if there are other solutions which work based on more readily available racks.<< I've had the custom Thule mounts since I got my D90 (8/94). They're great. I have 4 of the Thule bike mounts (model 921?) on it and it's rock solid when loaded up. The 2 crossbars can be removed easily with only a simple allen wrench. It's also nice that the mounts don't interfere with the top (soft) at all including top removal/mounting). Two caveats: clearance for garages, etc. is reduced from about 6'10" to 7'2" (with no bikes on it obviously), and getting bikes up there, especially nearer to the vehicle's center is a REACH. Even someone my height (6'5") appreciates the side step/guards for getting bikes up there. -Geoff From Roger Sinasohn Fri Dec 8 00:45:44 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 00:45:44 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: UK Claymation Show? (Non-LR -- Sorry!) My sister, the one who brought me back the Britains model discovery, (<-- mandatory LR content!) saw a show while she was over there and wants to know what it was called, and is it on here in the states. It is a claymation show about a farm, with an old grey horse and three mice from London. And Ducks, and cows, and pigs and other farm-type stuff. She thinks it was something like "Four Wind Farm" or something like that. If any of our brethren across the pond has any info on it, please e-mail me. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Fri Dec 8 10:01:26 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:01:26 -0200 From: bcotton@lia.co.za (Brian Cotton) Subject: L-ROVERS IN THE MOVIES Everyone (and Chris Youngston) The LR FC in the "Sands of Kalahari" movie then belonged to Wolf Haake, a long standing member of the LROC of SA. It is a forward control (home made double cab) with a SWB rear load body on. He hired the vehicle to the movie people who inturn payed him many monies. The vehicle is now owned by a Safari tour operator in Namibia (South West Africa). Cheers Brian Cotton LROC of SA SIII T I Diesel LBW camper SIII Diesel SWB From michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Fri Dec 8 08:31:00 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:31:00 -0500 From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Subject: Boxpops Stephen wrote: Sometimes, major problems have very simple solutions. Let's hope this is the case here. I had the same problem with Rudolph this summer. I was installing carpets (latin for sound-deadening material) in the cab. I had to remove the yellow knob and spring to be able to do so. Some time after that, when I tried to engage 4WD (in the Hi position), the selector kept popping up. I thought: Oh-Oh! transfer box problems.... But no! It was just the spring under the yellow knob that was "screwed" in too far away in the transmission tunnel cover. Maybe that is the problem. Hope I can help. Michel Bertrand Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada 1963 109 PU (Rudolph) 1968 109 SW Nada (in the works) 1973 88 SW (21st century project) From rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Sat Dec 9 08:40:53 1995 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 08:40:53 -0500 From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Subject: Roof rack limits Roverites- I just happened to get a brochure from SafariGard last night (Thanks Greg and Brandi!). The show a roof rack with, from memory, 600+ lbs rating. I assume the roof is capable of holding the load, Granville's story not withstanding. (Actually, I guess the roof didn't withstand it in that case ;-). The other safarigard stuff is quite impressive. I tactfully left it out with for Ms. Claus to see, and armed the kids with lots of arguments why the front bumper with skid plates would be a way cool xmas gift. I can provide better descriptions and prices if anyone is interested. One note, I was surprised by the high-ish price of the rock sliders (~$600). Perhaps I don't understand how much metal or fabricating is required, but I'd have guessed closer to a $400 price point. Still, the stuff they have for rovers is extremely impressive, and anyone looking to equip a disco for offroad performance may want to give them a call (909)698-6114. Happy roverin'. -Bob rvirzi@gte.com Think Globally. === +1(617)466-2881 === Act Locally! From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Fri Dec 8 08:06:00 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 08:06:00 -0500 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: Front receivers Hi Gerry, I saw your post on the front receiver. I am seriously considering this too. I have been for quite a while actually, I just haven't gotten around to it :-). A couple of questions: . Does it reduce the front clearance significantly? . How much did it set you back (moneywise)? I've also seen advertised a bull bar set up where the front receiver is mounted between the two verticle posts of the bull bars just above the bumber. Anybody have experience with this latter setup? Cheers, -Christian ------------------- Christian Szpilfogel '95 Discovery chrisz@bnr.ca Ottawa, Ontario, Canada From ey-postmaster@geis.com Fri Dec 8 13:33:00 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 13:33:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 1276324 Original Msg Id: 484658 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Fri 8-Dec-95 13:33 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 08 09:00:46 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 09:00:46 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Al waters his oil... > What I ended up doing was putting a piece of fuel hose on the stub and > routing it up the side of the filler nec, holding it in place with 3 > wire ties. This way, it's able to vent and t's not pointing forward to > ingest water......double ick! - No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the frame... Wait a darn minute! You've all got it wrong. In the late sixties, Land-Rover offered a PCV/PTO driven whiskey still. Simply mount the still in place of the air filter, route the filler neck hose to the still. Fill the sump with water and the grain of your choice. After a few hundred miles, attach the hose from the PTO driven pump to the still and out comes glorious Genuine Land-Rover Scotch. I've seen it in action and "boy, let me tell you" that is a damn fine product! Just call Bruce at DAP and ask him for one. He's got a couple laying around, but they won't last long! Dave "Uncle Jesse" Bobeck From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1907 Date: 8 Dec 95 7:46:35 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Re: Venting the crankcase into the frame: Yes, and the first time the chassis gets water in it the engine sucks it up as it cools..... No thanks, I've had enough oil mousse for this week....8*) ajr From Steve Thomas 8 95 Dec GMT 1912 Date: 8 Dec 95 12:00:33 GMT From: Steve Thomas Subject: Trivia? Er well not really....... Ok ok ok.......so it's not exactly Rover-related You see Sarah's company does this Christmas quiz thing, and last year Sarah's office won. So now they want to win again and I just thought, seeing how trivia related the list is, maybe someone could come up with the answer to this..... what+what = ptc? Anyone got any (sensible!) suggestions for what ptc (lower case) stands for? Friday's have a lot to answer for.... Steve /~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\ /~~~~~~~~~~~~||~~~~~~~~~~~~\ || / || \ || ||_____/_____||_____\_____|| |_|________|____|________|_| /~---__ ______________ __---~\ |~~~~~~~| /=\|####|/=\ |~~~~~~~| | o o | \=/|####|\=/ | o o | | EAB |##############| | Stephen Thomas |_836B__|##############|_______| 1964 IIa Diesel 'Andy' \____________________________/ 0121-452-1405 |~_-_~|----\___/-------|~_-_~| Thomse-u@m4-arts.bham.ac.uk |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| |~_-_~| ['Andy' : Classic car, definitely ~---~ ~---~ not a daily driver :)] From GElam30092@aol.com Fri Dec 8 10:45:40 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:45:40 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Off road 4 times? You wrote: Well, I've passed the 10,000 mile mark on my '95 Disco. To date I have not had a problem with it. Am I doing something wrong? It has only been off-road 4 times so far. Can't wait for the snow." What's snow got to do with going off-road! If I waited for snow, I'd never get off-road! :>) Get that Land Rover off-road before we turn you over to the KROAKE (Keeping Rovers On Asphalt Kills 'Em) Society. Gerry "Phoenix: high-today: 75" Elam From GElam30092@aol.com Fri Dec 8 10:45:31 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:45:31 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: Re: Front receivers (I wasn't clear so this may help) The receiver itself doesn't reduce the clearance a bit! That's the good news. It fits nice and neat between the air dam and the bumper. The clearance is only reduced when you add the winch. Once the winch is added, picture a cement block attached to your bumper... sticks out about 8 inches level and is level with the bottom of the bumper. I've never seen the other setup you mentioned. (In response to a mail item "I've also seen advertised a bull bar set up where the front receiver is mounted between the two verticle posts of the bull bars just above the bumber.") But it seems that the lever action of pulling about a foot higher than the attachment point would be significant. It would have to be very, very sturdy to hold up under stress conditions. I like my setup better even though I have to think ahead about what I'm driving into and decided if I want to stop and attach the winch. Good Luck.. Gerry E. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1910 Date: 8 Dec 95 10:47:04 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Re[2]: Water ingestion by engine - ick! Various folks speculate on where to stick the oil vent hose, but David expounds: >Wait a darn minute! You've all got it wrong. In the late > sixties, Land-Rover offered a PCV/PTO driven [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > is a damn fine product! Just call Bruce at DAP and > ask him for one. He's got a couple laying around, > but they won't last long! Hold it, hold it, hold it..... I may be DUMB, but I ain't STUPID..... ths one stretches even MY credulity. A good entry for the Anti-FAQ, though..see to it, will you, Dixon? 8*) > Dave "Uncle Jesse" Bobeck "Dukes of Hazzard" - you mean somebody else was dumb enough to watch it? aj"I much preferred Daisy..."r From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 08 12:15:05 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 12:15:05 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Off road 4 times? What's snow got to do with going off-road! If I waited for snow, I'd never get off-road! :>) Get that Land Rover off-road before we turn you over to the KROAKE (Keeping Rovers On Asphalt Kills 'Em) Society. Gerry "Phoenix: high-today: 75" Elam Of course city dwellers are exempt from this due to some potholes being equivalent to off roading. I drove down New York Avenue the other day and I'm quite sure the rear axle was airborne (hence off the road) several times. I actually got scared! Dave"Depends"Bobeck (see Al, I can even yank my own chain...) From lopezba@atnet.at Fri Dec 8 18:49:50 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:49:50 +0100 From: lopezba@atnet.at Subject: Re: Synthetics Oscar wrote: >Subject: Synthetics >What do you guys think of using synthetic, engine/transmission, under the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] >omont@mnl.sequel.net >75247.2423@compuserve.com >Philippines I think the question is not so much driving condition as age and state of the engine. If the vehicle is old (e.g. a Series Land-Rover), the engine was constructed with a relatively thick oil in mind and will not run well with synthetic oil. If the vehicle is newer but the engine is not well-maintained, the synthetic oil might dissolve a lot of residue that actually keeps the engine running by providing compression of a sort. In all other cases that I canm think of synthetic oil is absolutely worth its price. BTW, this is worth what you paid for it! Greetings Peter Hirsch SI 107in S/W (30 deg F, 15 cm/6 inches of snow) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1912 Date: 8 Dec 95 12:43:15 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Urban off-roading With deference to those who think off-roading requires dirt, jackrabbits and other such undesirable things, I welcome any comments on same from anyone who regularly drives the streets and highways of Boston. When I can get lifted out of my seat by the roughness of the "patches" on Rutherford Avenue approaching the Gilmore Bridge, rocks and dirt look mighty good.... aj"Thank God for Diesel springs"r >Of course city dwellers are exempt from this due to some > potholes being equivalent to off roading. I drove > down New York Avenue the other day and I'm quite > sure the rear axle was airborne (hence off > the road) several times. I actually got scared! > Dave"Depends"Bobeck > (see Al, I can even yank my own chain...) Jerk, hell! That wasn't even a twitch..... aj"And then there's bumper cars with the taxis"r From Benjamin Allan Smith Fri Dec 08 10:21:43 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 10:21:43 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Re[2]: Water ingestion by engine - ick! ajr wrote: [Stuff about Genuine Land Rover Scotch deleted] > Hold it, hold it, hold it..... I may be DUMB, but I ain't STUPID..... > ths one stretches even MY credulity. > A good entry for the Anti-FAQ, though..see to it, will you, Dixon? 8*) Dixon may not have seen it, but I have. I added it to the FAQ about 30 seconds ago... Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From Guy Arnold Fri Dec 8 14:39:49 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:39:49 EDT From: Guy Arnold Subject: Re: Buying a Land-rover I have to chuckle at these peolpe who think they can buy a Series rover with a rust free frame and everything working for under $2000.00. I hate to inform these newbies that it is never going to happen unless you find some widow in the northern woods who doesn't know what her husband had for a vehicle. I know that when I bought my Series III for $1100.00 US I knew that I was going to spend another $3,000 to $4,000 plus my time to fix it up. That is the reason I bought the vehicle so I could fix it up my way and to learn as much as I could about the vehicle on a first wrench basis. I obviously didn't buy the vehicle because it is excellent driver, if I had wanted that I would have bought another BMW or Benz. I bought it because I could work on it myself and it will go just about anywhere. For me, 75% of the fun was rebuilding the vehicle. For shear fun driving on the road I will use my 1960 MGA roadster (another vehicle I can repair myself, no computer needed). If you don't want to work on these machines then by all means go through a garage or buy a completely rebuilt vehicle but be prepared to spend $7,000-$10,000. That is just the way the market works, supply and demand. Guy Arnold 1973 Series III swb 1960 MGA 1600 roadster From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Dec EST 1915 Date: 8 Dec 95 15:16:11 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: What do YOU call a good chassis? Here's a question for you..... Personally, I call 'em as I bend 'em - structural integrity is all. THe chassis under my 109 is best described as FUUUUUUGLY (translation by email for those who feel the need...). It's been repaired in several places by myself and POs, but it's sound, serious rust-free, and I'd have no qualms about taking up Kilimanjaro (with other tires...). I don't care about cosmetics. As LRO said when they did a buye's guide for the Series IIa machines, it's a damned rare vehicle that hasn't had some chassis welding done on it somewhere in its lifetime. The trick is to make sure it was done RIGHT, and not bodged. That's where the hammer comes in... aj"12-ga steel - not a patch, a REPAIR"r From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 08 15:58:47 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 15:58:47 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: What do YOU call a good chassis? To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net Here's a question for you..... Personally, I call 'em as I bend 'em - structural integrity is all. THe chassis under my 109 is best described as FUUUUUUGLY (translation by email for those who feel the need...). It's been repaired in several places by myself and POs, but it's sound, serious rust-free, and I'd have no qualms about taking up Kilimanjaro (with other tires...). I don't care about cosmetics. As LRO said when they did a buye's guide for the Series IIa machines, it's a damned rare vehicle that hasn't had some chassis welding done on it somewhere in its lifetime. The trick is to make sure it was done RIGHT, and not bodged. That's where the hammer comes in... aj"12-ga steel - not a patch, a REPAIR"r Mine had many patches, some better than others, but some areas were beyond hope and certainly all could not have been done for under $500. (I don't have welder or welding skill) So a good used frame for $500 bucks was the way to go. Otherwise I would have just fixed it. In other words I didn't need a NEW frame, but I got a good deal on one, so I got it. Dave From DONOHUEPE@aol.com Fri Dec 8 16:33:29 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:33:29 -0500 From: DONOHUEPE@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... get land-rover-owner aaa.readme From "Tom Rowe" Fri Dec 8 16:08:49 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 16:08:49 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: (Fwd) (Fwd) FW: Holiday Fruitcake Recipe (hic!) (fwd) -Forward I know all you LR owners like good whiskey so thought you might like this for the holidays ahead. ******************************************************************** A friend emailed me this fruitcake recipe just in time for the holidays. Well, here's a cheery christmas recipe to get into the christmas spirit. Enjoy! HOLIDAY FRUIT CAKE RECIPE You'll need the following: a cup of water, a cup of sugar, four large eggs, two cups of dried fruit, a teaspoon of baking soda, a teaspoon of salt, a cup of brown sugar, lemon juice, nuts, and a bottle of whisky. Sample the whisky to check for quality. Take a large bowl. Check the whisky again. To be sure it is the highest quality, pour one level cup and drink. Repeat. Turn on the electric mixer, beat one cup of butter in a large fluffy bowl. Add one teaspoon of sugar and beat again. Make sure the whisky is still okay. Cry another tup. Turn off the mixer. Break two leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit. Mix on the turner. If the fried druit gets stuck in the beaterers pry it loose with a drewscriver. Sample the whisky to check for tonsisticity. Next, sift two cups of salt. Or somefthing. Who cares? Check the whiskey. Now sift the lemonn juice and strain your nuts. Add one table. Spoon. Of sugar or somefing. Whatever you can find. Grease the oven. Turn the cake tin to 350 degrees. Dontt forget to beat off the turner. Thfrow the bowl out of the window, check the whisky again and go to bed. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Fri Dec 8 17:53:45 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:53:45 -0500 (EST) From: James Kirkpatrick - INEN/F94 Subject: Re: Urban off-roading Some of the best "off-roading" I've done was through the largest mall in town. Once was after hours, without the concent of security which involved stairs and the like and twice durring a British Car show in the mall where the IIA was on show. Slalom (sp?) between the plants and benches on nice white shinny marble is always a change. Navagating the food court was the most chalenging with all those chairs! Regards, Jay Kirkpatrick '55 Ser I '58 Ser II '70 Ser IIA From KKelly6788@aol.com Fri Dec 8 18:57:44 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 18:57:44 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: Range Rover Recall I just received a notice (Safety Recall #95V-155) in the mail today that Land Rover was recalling all '87-'91 Range Rovers with the 20 gallon fuel tank. The notice said that rust could start between the stone guard and the fuel tank and eventually cause leaking. I am happy because I have a dent in my tank and a piece of wood stuck between the stone guard and the tank (I ran over an old tree stump). The notice said that most failures were in area's with salt on the roads, but it would be replaced free of charge for all owners regardless of where you live or drive. It also said if you have already paid to have the tank replaced "kindly provide your dealer with a copy of your receipt for having the work performed and you will be reimbursed." Kevin Kelly '89 Range Rover From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Fri Dec 8 16:34:50 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 16:34:50 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: re: D90 SW update | We have none available after today. We are still taking deposits on the odd | change we can get extra units from LRNA, but we cannot guarantee people a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] | but again, no 1996 Defender... | Jim I'm confused about something: is Land Rover simply going to stop importing the D90 to the U.S. (at least for '96), or are they going to cease production of this vehicle all together? If it's the latter, what's the British army going to do, start driving around in Discoveries? Another thing that puzzles me is that, if there is enough demand for this vehicle, why doesn't LRNA just send more over to sell this year? After all, they've got all year next year to clear the inventory. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 08 95 Dec EST 1921 Date: 08 Dec 95 21:06:20 EST From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: 1988RR electrical nightmare #1. I know this is gonna sound crazy but when I hit my break pedal to make a turn, the head lights dim and the heater fan slows down. #2. I've recently replaced a "defective" battery,and installed a trailer hitch electrical harness for directional signals. Afterwards the speedometer crapped out followed by the Tachometer a few days later. The driver side electric window motor blew last week. Are these electrical problems inter-related or is it merely coincidence? The head light dimming had pre dated the other electrical problems. Can anyone offer a reasonable diagnosis? Cheers Cliff 76262.1154@ COMPUSERVE.COM 88RR Blue Meanie From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Dec 8 19:00:42 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 19:00:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: 1988RR electrical nightmare Diagnosis? How about a few unreasonable questions? What happens it you just take your foot off the accelerator? Do your headlights dim and the fan slow down? Have you had your alternator checked out? I don't have any idea why the speedo and tach would be tied into the electrical system (I assume they are mechanical, if not there's your connection). It sounds as though you might be getting uneven (very uneven) electical output. That could cause a lot of problems, including a bad battery, dimming lights, and so on. Rgds, Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On 8 Dec 1995, Cliff Kavanaugh wrote: > #1. I know this is gonna sound crazy but when I hit my break pedal to make a > turn, the head lights dim and the heater fan slows down. > #2. I've recently replaced a "defective" battery,and installed a trailer hitch electrical harness for directional signals. Afterwards the speedometer crapped out followed by the Tachometer a few days later. The driver side electric window motor blew last week. Are these electrical problems inter-related or is it merely coincidence? The head light dimming had pre dated the other electrical problems. Can anyone offer a reasonable diagnosis? Cheers Cliff From Dixon Kenner Fri Dec 8 22:50:44 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 22:50:44 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Water ingestion by engine - ick! On Thu, 7 Dec 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > No,no... What you're supposed to do (according to Dixon) is to run a hose > from the filler neck down to the frame, so the oil vapors vent into the > frame... 'tis called continuous oiling for those of us in salt challenged environments... From Dixon Kenner Fri Dec 8 22:57:27 1995 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 22:57:27 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: How many are left ?? On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > If only I could grep through the various DMV databases for the 50 > states on the word Rover.... The problem with this type of number playing is many... Rover North America says X Land Rovers were imported and sold. Fine, but.... This number does not include those imported directly into Canada (for example) by Shell, The various Cdn Government departments, other companies, Hydro QUebec... etc... All of these other "imports" would not appear in Rover NA stats since they never saw the vehicles in the first place. 16k vehicles? I'd say it was a lot higher... Looking at the rot level, and those surviving, LR's are not that imune to rust. Greater initial numbers must have been here... The 16k figure was arrived at in an unscientific From "John Y. Liu" Fri Dec 08 23:36:33 1995 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 23:36:33 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Buying Long Distance Here are my thoughts on buying long distance. I haven't yet bought a car long distance but recently bought two ocean kayaks that way for $6,000, so I had to do some thinking about the method. 1. Question the owner thoroughly. Have a checklist and go through it with him on the phone. 2. Get photos, copies of records, etc. by mail. Be reasonable and pay $15 or so for film, developing, postage and copying -- shows you're serious and not wasting his time. In return the photos should be pretty detailed. I don't think videos are clear enough. 3. Dicker the price to a reasonable range, conditioned on the truck being in the advertised condition. No need to get to a final price yet. 4. Have someone in the area check the truck out for you. Maybe a list member. I'd be happy to do so for any trucks in L.A. 5. Have a Rover mechanic in the area check the truck out for you. Have a list member recommend someone. It'll cost $50 or so -- money well spent. 6. Research how much it'll cost you to fix what's wrong. That's your bargaining tool. Subscription Information: * All new subscriFrom paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Sun Dec 10 21:08:03 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:08:03 +1100 From: paul@frcs.alt.za (Paul Nash) Subject: Re: Malawi via Tete or Zambia > and would like to hear from folk who might have travelled up that > way. There are two ways of getting from Zimbabwe, either going > through Zambia or through the Tete corridor in Mozambique. Different > people have different nightmares to tell about each! Is there anyone Sheesh! I've also heard of lots of friends of friends or friends who where shot in the head, held up, chopped to bits with machetes, and so on (and somehow managed to get back and tell about it!). We went to Malawi & Zambia about 18 months ago, up via Tete, back via Livingston. Tete was fine, but the Mocambiquan border people are quite surly (maybe it's just a language thing) and although we had Zimbabwean papers (which should have covered everything) we _still_ had to buy insurance &c. It was about R100/vehicle (or US$60/vehicle, so pay in Rands :-)), but no big deal. We were stopped by two road blocks, one checking seat belts, the other looking for warning triangles & fire extinguishers. No requests for bribes, threats, anything else. Just immense poverty & devestation from the war (and the SA/Eskom-sponsored post-independence guerrilla offensive). The road itself is fine, and I could travel as fast as the diesel would let me go, except for the last 10km or so, which was still under construction. Zambia was quite different. The border people were friendly & helpful, needed about US$5 for insurance, and the country was absolutely beautiful. Beer was cheap, but take your own empties -- small towns won't sell beer unless you give them empties. Fuel prices vary from pump to pump. The highway from Chipata to Lusaka is variable, and you can cruise at 120km/hr or more if you don't mind sudden potholes. The only road-blocks that we saw were veterinary controls. I broke both front springs on the road from South Luangwa to Petauke, but got some leaves (and lots of labour) in Petauke (about 100 people or so). Crossing from Livingston to Vic Falls, we had more shit on the Zim side (not that it was anything to write home about) than we had during the rest of the trip. Go up one way, and come back the other. It makes it more interesting. You won't regret it -- the great fear of the rest of Africa is one of the many negative effects of years of Apartheid rule. Drop me a line if you want more info. From "Sean McInerney" 8 1995 Dec -0500 1914 Date: 8 Dec 1995 14:18:55 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Obscure parts Obscure parts Those of you with SIIa Genuine Parts Catalogues- 1.) Can anyone tell me the part numbers for the Solex carburetor correct for a 1963 Land Rover?....there may be numbers existent for electrically wired and heated as well as unheated versions. 2.) What is the part number for the ignition waterproofing kit (rubber boots for coil, distributor, and plugs)? 3.) What is the part number for the petrol fuel pump with glass sediment bowl? Was this always the same part # for SII, early SIIa, late SIIa, and SIII? 4.) The waterpump for the SIIa petrol is now absurdly priced in NA.....what is its part number? Except for the fuel pump, these parts are out-of-production and, therefore, rather obscure and $$$ (#163##163##163#). Except for the waterproofing kit, I am attempting to stay 'vintage-correct', so please keep this in mind with your replies. A friend of mine is going home to England for the holidays and has offered to bring back a few parts as long as they are not too heavy. Where might he get his hands on these parts in the UK (over the counter or mail)? I would like all these parts to be genuine....but I am also trying to save tons o' $$$ (#163##163##163#). Thanks in advance, Sean C. McInerney 1963 SIIa 88" petrol hardtop P.S.: Where's the digest??????????????????????????????? From bava001@IT.net (Claudio Bavassano) Sun Dec 10 16:03:53 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 16:03:53 +0100 From: bava001@IT.net (Claudio Bavassano) Subject: Disco driver seat >To: LRO-digest@uk.stratus.com >From: bava001@pn.itnet.it (Claudio Bavassano) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >Hello everybody. >I am new on the list and regret if these arguments have been discussed recently. >I just bought a 94 Discovery MPI 2.0 16 valves with 20k Km. >It seems it works very good but reading the manual I understand a red light >Subject: Disco driver seat signal should lit up when locking diff. >I have no light at all. >Secondly, I am 1,90 m. high and if the driver seat could be moved backwards >Subject: Disco driver seat at least 4-5 cm. it would be very nice for my legs. >I inspected the seat and found at the end of both the toothed rails, two stops wich end the shift back of the seat itself. >It is possible to cut them out but then I suppose the seat will go back too much without the possibility to be blocked and may be the rails could bend. >Is there anybody who already solved the above problems ? >Thanks in advance [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >Thanks in advance >C.Bavassano Italy bava001@pn.itnet.it From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Sun Dec 10 12:28:15 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 12:28:15 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: CA 86"LR FS, FYI Found the following ad on one of the net classified things. Kevin, are you on the list? >From "Special Car Journal Classifieds" 1955 Land Rover 86 Over $15,000 squandered on body-off restoration of rust-free California car. Bronze green with new tan canvas. New or rebuilt everything. Correct, fully operational classic. Asking $9000 and will accept any reasonable offer. Kevin Kay, CA, Phone: 916-241-8337, FAX: 916-241-8339, Ad #2819 From Wdcockey@aol.com Sun Dec 10 15:17:58 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:17:58 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Obscure parts --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: Obscure parts From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Sun Dec 10 15:27:54 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 15:27:54 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: Santana 6 cyl.???? Is there a supplier for Santana engines either in the UK, Spain, S. America or the US? In particular a friend and I are looking for the Santana 6, thinking that it would be the ultimate engine. Commonality of parts between the Rover 4 and the Santana 6 is the major reason for going with the Santana. Does anyone have ay experiene regarding this engine? Horror stories or anything good to say about this engine or Santana in general? We're looking for any type of contact either with Santana directly or with remanufactureres of those engines, as in Turner from England. I haven't seen anything in LRO about contacting Santana, and figured the next best place to look were the lists. Thanks in advance, Michael From "Mark Talbot" Mon Dec 11 01:38:55 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 01:38:55 UT From: "Mark Talbot" Subject: Oil and water don't mix Trying to get Beryl running today, bad starter, had to replace, we towed and pulled her, thanks to Alan Richer's 109 "Churchill" she just would'nt fire. After closer inspection and after replacing the rebuilt starter, Alan pulled off the air intake, she fired, sounded as good as always. Checked the air cleaner element and found a hard sludge in the pan, seems that water had got in from the last off-roading trip, and the oil & water mix had frozen into a hard mush. !! Put in a replacement air filter unit and she worked fine. Beware !!! Mark From ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu Sun Dec 10 21:12:46 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 21:12:46 -0800 (PST) From: ftwarog@moose.uvm.edu Subject: stuff A few thoughts on some of the recent ramblings on the digest... concerning receiver hitch mounted winches - I would have to say that the Rovers North application for the Discovery seems to me to be the best option - for a few reasons (in order of least-to-most important)... 1. Aesthetics - this set up offers the true "weekend warrior" the best of both worlds - a winch that can be removed for urban travel and quickly installed for the infrequent trips to the woods. Also would please that former Range Rover owner who had the winch-concealed-behind-the-front- license-plate style installed to mask their wild side. 2. This sounds silly, but was a fear of mine last week when, on a nice patch of ice I cruised through a stop sign in my 88" IIA - if you are unfortunate enough to rear-end someone, all you do is lose a bumper as opposed to a bumper, winch, roller fairlead, brushguard etc. etc. 3. Helps out with the somewhat lacking approach angle that the LRNA winch provides 4. And the most important reason as far as I'm concerned is the advantage of having a winch that can be used in both the front and rear receiver hitches - obviously providing infinite recovery possibilities (I'll admit that on at least one occasion I have resorted to passing the cable underneath my diffs and out the back to the only available tree around - but don't let anyone know :) ). So, since I'm not much in to aesthetics on any Rover, points 1 and 2 should be taken lightly, but seriously consider points 3 and 4 unless you're really wealthy and can afford 2 winches... Also, concerning the Defender 90 Thule racks - got em', love 'em, highly reccomend them. Besides the fact that I am a big fan of Thule (between the four of us in my family, over the last 12+ years, we've bought a different set for our Saab 900 and 9000, Audi 90 Q and 5000, Volkswagen Jetta, Land Rover 88" and Def 90 - keeping in mind, of course the fact that not all of the cars are still in our small family of 4!), the Defender rack is extremely easy to install which is both good and bad for the owner - easy to put on and equally easy to steal, since there are no locks for the rack itself. Obviously, the rack is specific to the 90 and by itself won't be stolen, but remember that even though the bike, ski, etc. attachments themselves lock, if the rack doesn't - everything can still be taken with ease. The only problem that I have found is the fact that the bars are only 2.5' apart, so attachments like the angle ski rack mean that downhill skis go in fine, but x-country ones which are thicker in the middle and more flexed don't go in too easily. I'm not kidding when I say that if you have the extra $700 for the new stainless steel Rovers North Safari rack, you're better off in many ways - not the least of which is the extra load carrying capacity (keep in mind that I still use all of my Thule attachments on my full length galvanised 88" rack - I've put together spacers that fill up the extra 1/2" width of the Thule bars compared to the rack's tubing) - providing the perfect spot for those looking for a place to put a hi-lift, jerry cans, axe etc. On the topic of roof racks and weight, the Defender 90 Thule racks are registered at 100 lbs. of weight - which is a bit deceptive, though... If any of you have seen the new Car-Top tents, they attach to the 90's rack and when stationary, the Thule bars can easily support the spread-out weight of two adults sleeping in these tents - just don't go driving, because as soon as weight above the 100 lb. mark starts shifting around (like the Discovery owner learned on their off-road trip that was written about a few days ago), the jolting effect will cause the racks to weaken, bent, or worse - compromise the strength of the roll cage itself. That's why there are suggested load limits on such racks. And for trivia, of which I haven't provided much of recently b/c of an extended period away from the computer - today's may seem easy to people in North America, but I'll bet that this one will in some way stump even the most seasoned of Rover fans... name as many items as you can that differentiate the *base* 1995 Defender 90 softtop from the base MY '94 softtop (I've thought of 13 things that are significantly different)... And for those with no interest what-so-ever in knowing 13 things about a '95 NAS Def. 90, I give you this trivia question - name the only 2 countries in the entire world which have managed to keep Land Rover from legally selling their products within their borders. Frank "Havana Daydreaming" Twarog Burlington, VT From ericz@cloud9.net Sun Dec 10 18:19:27 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 18:19:27 -0800 From: ericz@cloud9.net Subject: Incomlpete digest. Could someone please forward the 12/10 digest to me...it got eaten somewhere along the way and I only got the first message... Thanks. From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Dec 10 19:47:13 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 19:47:13 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS Majorette has done it again. Another variation on the ubiquitous Land Rover 90 and radar trailer. This is the 1/60 series 300 number 362 Nasa scheme vehicle which has been around for a number of years now. The latest variation is that the blue stripes on the side are a paler blue and the once silver chromed wheel hubs are now a blue chrome colour. There were only two in the store (Zellers) so I bought both. If you would like to receive an occasional toy / model digest devoted to Land Rover product marques please e mail me directly and Ill set something up. Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Dec 10 18:40:47 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 18:40:47 PST From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: what the heck? What's going on with LRO digest?? Two times in two weeks the messages are not on the list! Can anyone shed the light. I'm going into withdrawal... Cheerz Jim - I need my LRO fix! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Dec 10 22:43:36 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:43:36 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Here we go again... What is up with the major??? 19 messages on the 12/10 digest, yet only a fraction of the first message along with the major's usual message footers were sent. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 10 19:48:27 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:48:27 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Did we pass??? At 16:22 09.12.95 +0000, Oscar Beasley wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Testing, two three four. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >Testing, two three four. >beasleyo@milo.cfw.com (Oscar Beasley) From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 10 19:47:53 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:47:53 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: (ALERT) INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995 While this is not directly relevant to Land Rovers, it does touch on a much larger issue. I provide it for your information and action as you see appropriate. Cheers! John >Return-Path: root@panix3.panix.com >Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 00:33:33 -0500 (EST) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 229 lines)] > End Alert >======================================================================== From "John C. White, III" Sun Dec 10 19:48:22 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 19:48:22 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: 10,000 miles on Discovery Speaking of Discovery problems, I groused at my dealer about the intermittent failure of my left rear directional. He said that this was a known problem (as do we all), and that he was ordering a complete set of light sockets to replace all of them, not just the one that's defective. May his tribe increase! Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 15:27 09.12.95 -0500, Gary Mitchelson wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >-- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 25 lines)] >garym@racalrecord.com >Racal Recorders, Inc. From jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Sun Dec 10 21:11 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 21:11 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) Subject: Automobile Magazine wants opinions on the Discovery In the January 1996 issue of Automobile Magazine, on page 98, there is the following blurb: If you own a 1995 ..., Land Rover Discovery, ...(several other vehicles are listed), we'd like to hear from you. We need to know your name, address, and daytime telephone number; what you do for a living, your age, your car's make and model; how long you've owned it; how much you paid for it; whether there was a rebate on that amount; your insurance cost on this car for one year; and whether you have had any serious mechanical problems. Also, what was your last car before this one? Most important, be specific in telling us what you like most and least about your car. We'll send you an Automobile Magazine bumper sticker for your trouble (Oh, Goody!). If your entry is published as part of our Four Seasons report, we'll send you one of out T-shirts, too (so send us your size and color preference - black, green or blue). Send your responses to: Four Seasons Tests, Automobile Magazine, 120 East Liberty Street, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104. From landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Sun Dec 10 20:26:30 1995 Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:26:30 -0500 From: landrvr@blacdisc.com (Mike Loiodice) Subject: Re: Tranny getting cranky Andrew Balser asks... > Since I have owned my ser.iii, the transmission has never been >quite perfect. It never went smoothly into first, and it pooped out of >first going down a steep driveway during the first week I owned it. I >could live with all that pretty easily though by briefly shift into second >and then first. ................snip.................... >to check things out. Does anyone have any opinion on which parts will be >most damaged, and in what proportion? Any attempt I make to fix the thing >before embarking will be done with only basic tools on the (uneven) dirt >drive at my cabin, and with almost no $$ to boot. - It sounds like at the very least you have worn syncro rings and possibly worn detent balls/springs. Once you pull the tranny apart you may find other items. Pulling the transmission out requires removing the floor panels and seat box - not a lot of fun in the cold (especially where you are). Personally, I would try swapping the tranny for a used one and hope for the best. Keep in mind, that you will need to put in a SerIII transmission. You could use a IIa transmission, but you would have to install a IIa slave cylinder as well. Cheers Mike Loiodice 166 W. Fulton St. 1965 SerIIa 88 Petrol ('Sydney') Gloversville 1972 SerIII 88 Petrol ('Fern'From wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Mon Dec 11 11:53 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 11:53 GMT-0200 From: wrm@ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Subject: Series IIA power steering Hi all What is the accepted / best / easiest / cheapest way to fit power steering to a series landy? I'll be doing a chassis-up resto soon, and I'd like the SO to be able to drive the beast too. Please remember that I'm on the other side of the world, I can't just buy a kit and stick it in. I would probably have to cannabalise something to find the correct steering relay or whatever. Thanks Wouter -- Wouter de Waal ZS1KE GE>AT d-(pu) s+:-- a- C++$ UL+ U*+$ P>++ L++ E- W N+++>++ Argo 505 / FT200 !o K w(--) !O !M V(--) PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP>++ t 5? X? R? tv>--- b+++ DI+ D+ G e+++(*) h--- r+++ y+++(*) '72 Puma - 1700 FI Type IV engine Perseverance my son, '6? Series IIA SW - factory fitted Lucas immobiliser it's a Land/ /Rover "All journeys end when we reach our destination but the journeying remains a thing apart, unique unto itself. Most of us make life's journeys without understanding that the journeying is a separate thing." -- Bob Hoover From Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited 11 95 Dec GM 1910 Date: 11 Dec 95 10:05:43 GM From: Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited Subject: 1985 - 110 for sale Location North East Hampshire, UK My 1985 110 is sadly up for sale. For the last 18 months we have been using it to transport kids, dogs, and horses to and from schools, walks and shows respectively. Mainly been driven by my wife on a daily basis, apart from a short stint of 50 miles per day when I used it for the daily commute to work. It must now go due the purchase of a small holding and the need for a tractor/jcb type vehicle. Details 2.5L Diesel (N/A) (blows a little oil but recently passed emissions test at MOT) Gearbox fully reconditioned 12k miles ago (18 months) MOT'd until September 1996 Taxed until summer 1996 Avon Rangemasters all round Full length roof rack Capstan Winch (front mounted) Ex British Telecom vehicle (regularly serviced, but no service history) Good chassis (spent most of it's life on the roads) Colour is light Grey (externally oversprayed by BT from the previous yellow colour) This vehicle has never ever let us down. I looking for around UK Pounds 4250 If interested? send mail to Tony Kingston@MTITS.CO.UK and I'll tell you more about it. Tony From Richard Jones Mon Dec 11 9:54:54 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 9:54:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: standards vs. automatics ... ? Randall Thomas writes: > allowing you to keep going and avoiding the evil wheel spin. What you don't > need is to throttle up over some obstacle only to go flying off the other > side because you've little or no engine braking and it's too slippery to use > the brakes. Taking your senario, what happens if you miss you gear shift at the top. With the manual you go flying down the other side out of gear ... with the auto you pull the leave back and kick it down (takes a little nerve but it works). > day. I do alot of offroading in steep slippery terrain and have, more than > once, had to stop by just switching off the ignition while underway and in > gear down a slippery descent. It's just too risky to touch that brake > pedal, and this gives you a nicely controlled stop, impossible in an automatic. > Also, with a manual you always know exactly what gear you're in. (except > mine periodically jumps into neutral from third during overrun). > Cheers Randall > pedal, and this gives you a nicely controlled stop, impossible in an __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 11 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 11 Dec 95 08:13:14 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: ReSTAMPS Dear Robin, So far no stamps. You can be assured I will be paying you in US $ if that is OK. There really is honor amoungst Rover fellow's. Orlando Fl in the central part of the State approx 2.5hrs N of West Palm Beach. I never heard of Hutchinson. While I got you on the Net let me ask you a question.Last year I replaced my old 6cycl engine in my 1966 109 NADA wagon wioth a rebuilt(new) Turner 4 cylc. 2.5l engine. It has on now approx 1500miles and the damn thing can't get out of its own way. Max speed approx 50MPH with OD. I have two other 4cycl Turner engines in my 88' that work fine. Was I miss lead to put a 4cylc in the heavy 109? Is there a solution to my problem other then a new engine? Thanks for any help you you give me. Benjamin G.Newman, MD From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 11 08:54:44 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 08:54:44 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Cold Weather Repair Tips. Here's a few handy tips to keep Old Man Winter off your back. 1. If you break down in a major city, or other heavily populated area, don't bother calling a tow truck. You're much better off attemting to diagnose and fix the problem right there on the side of the road. 2. Make sure that you don't carry any spare parts that actually match the parts on your vehicle. This will handily prevent you from installing a part that might not work. 3. Once you have installed the incorrect parts, make sure the vehicle starts. If it does, immediately remove all the new parts and replace them with the old parts. This will allow you to determine whether or not these parts were actually the problem. 4. Do not attempt any repairs unless it is below 20 degrees. Be sure to wear the thinnest socks possible. Also it's best to sit around for a few hours, and wait until dark before trying to fix anything. This gives the passenger something to do, ie. holding the flashlight. 5. If your passenger suspects you have a fuel delivery probelm, then it is definitely not a fuel delivery problem. Never mind that 3 other people asked if you had a fuel delivery problem. 6. If anybody asks if you need help, say no and tell them to go away. They obviously know nothing about Land-Rovers and will just make it worse. 7. When all else fails, rebuild the distributor. Its okay if your spares are from the wrong distributor, simply put them in any old way and they will work fine. A toenail clipper makes an excellent points file. Put everything back any old way. Don't bother setting the point gap, it doesn't matter because it's not going to start anyway. Do try to set the timing though. 8. Check the spark plugs. If they have a nice black sooty coating on them, be sure to brush them real good with an oily toothbrush. This will help preserve the sooty coating. Replace the spark plugs. 9. Remove and reinstall the air filter several times. This is guaranteed to attract people who need help changing a tire on their new stolen car because they can't get into the trunk. This will make you glad that you have a junky old Land-Rover that no one in their right mind would want to steal. 10. When your Rover finally starts going again, pay no mind to the fact that it won't exceed 20 mph. These things are notoriously slow vehicles. When you finally get home, you can, in the safety and comfort of your own driveway, reconnect the vacuum advance and bend the accelarator linkage back to it's normal position. This will allow you to drive the Rover at a normal speed to the local Sushi joint and ponder quietly to yourself on the fact that it now starts easier, and runs better and faster than it has since you've owned it. Thanks to Will Hadley for holding the flashlight and sticking around while I tested these theories. Cheers. Dave"Brrrrrrr"Bobeck 72 SerIII "Green Car" From "Bobeck, David R." Mon Dec 11 09:07:44 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 09:07:44 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: Buying a Land-rover I have to chuckle at these peolpe who think they can buy a Series rover with a rust free frame and everything working for under $2000.00. I hate to inform these newbies that it is never going to happen unless you find some widow in the northern woods who doesn't know what her husband had for a vehicle. If you don't want to work on these machines then by all means go through a garage or buy a completely rebuilt vehicle but be prepared to spend $7,000-$10,000. That is just the way the market works, supply and demand. Guy Arnold 1973 Series III swb 1960 MGA 1600 roadster Guy is right. We all should expect, and I did, that for every problem you find when you look at a truck, there is one or more hidden problem. It turned out that mine and others had more serious hidden problems, but c'est la Rovers. My vehicle would have cost a bundle more had it been rust free. I still think I got a good deal. As far as frame rust goes, I think a lot of them could be repaired, after all they aren't made of gold, just regular old steel. Mine could be repaired, but I CHOSE to do a frame-over. I dread the day I actually begin the job but I'm sure it won't really be a big deal. There's nothing wrong with buying a decrepit truck, and also I think the guys up North have a more realistic idea of what a crappy truck really is. My frame has holes in it, but I've heard of frames that literally break in half on the road. Also having seen Mike Loiodice's (sorry if I speeled it wrong, mate) "Fern Rover", I know just how ugly a frame can get. And that wasn't even the worst, I'm sure... Regards Dave From 11 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 11 Dec 95 09:31:48 EST From: Subject: Major Domo barfs again!!!!!!! The 12/10/95 ( for you folks back in blighty 10/12/95) list stalled out after the first half of the first out of 19 messages. If anyone received a complete list, please forward it to me. Thanks btw, checked out a lonely 90sw coniston green at lrmw early sunday morning. no sold sticker on it, just lots of ice. I love it but wife wants a rangie as the disco will not fit into her office's garage. Regards Chris Browne Brit in Boston 95 Discovery (11470 miles really cold today you should have heard the steering wheel squeak!) chris_browne@us014-minet-boston.ccmail.compuserve.com From "John C. White, III" Mon Dec 11 06:51:00 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 06:51:00 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: (ALERT) INTERNET DAY OF PROTEST TUESDAY DECEMBER 12, 1995 This was truncated by Herr Majordomo last time. As I said last time, this is not directly related to Land Rovers (Sorry.) but does effect the Internet. My apologies for boring the non-US readers with this, but there's no other way to reach only Americans without sending this out to everyone. Cheers! John From "Oscar Beasley" Mon Dec 11 10:07:13 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:07:13 +0000 From: "Oscar Beasley" Subject: 1972 SIII S/W for sale Just in time for Christmas and after all the excellent advice on buying *long distance*, I am offering my SIII for sale. This vehicle was originally sold through a local dealer here in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia. It was the owner's personal vehicle until he went to a nursing home. It then sat in his barn for many years, suffering through a major flood that filled it up to the frame with water and mud. When re-discovered, the frame had been mostly destroyed. I bought the vehicle from the second owner who had applied various SPOT tricks, etc. Bottom line, the vehicle was completely disassembled. I started w/new galvanized frame (from RN), rebuilt engine (now w/14,500 miles), rebuilt transmission (from Mike Hoskins), galvanized footwells, new gas tank, all new brake lines, most instruments, new heater box/lower dash, new springs, shocks, swivel balls, new wheel bearings, brakes, tie rod ends, bump stops, engine mounts, and on and on. It is easier to say what was not replaced: the hardtop, the exterior body, both axles and the top dash, firewall, rear safari door and rear seats. It needs to be painted and a couple of wrinkles ironed out on the front wings. The headliner has about a two-inch *L* tear, the driver's seat is in need of recovering, the rear seats have a few nicks (replacements are still in plastic), and it needs carpeting and/or mats. (I left the two bullet holes in the body and driver's seat because it makes great conversation! No, not a jealous husband!) I have installed a new overdrive (from Atlantic Brit.), and have a brand-new, *still on the pallet* high speed transfer case (from Mike Hoskins), spare diff., spare bearings, seals, gaskets, brakes, shocks, springs, and various pieces, parts and chunks. The truck is a daily runner, 60+ miles round-trip. Graduate school is forcing me to sell it. I can't spend the time to keep it properly maintained, not to mention that I am doing this out of my savings and have two semesters to finish. Anyway, *The Rogue* needs a good home and someone to finish the project. Call Lanny at RN and he can verify that all parts ordered are Genuine LR, and that I have spent over $10K on parts with them, alone. Atlantic British can verify the couple of thou they have received from me, and Mike Hoskins can verify the couple of grand he has received. I won't tell you how much I paid the SPOT, but whoever buys this truck will see it on the title. All fluids are synthetic from rebuild or new except steering relay and steering box (plain old 90wt there). Five 16" rims w/new BF Goodrich made 235R 16 radials, and six 15" rims w/four like-new Toyo radials and two good radial spares. Talk to anyone from Blue Ridge Land Rover Club (http://www.cemr.wvu.edu/~wwwatf/brlrc/brlrc.htm) about the vehicle, it runs well and is SOLID. It just needs some cosmetics and touching-up. Since I use it off-road, I didn't want to paint it and then see it get scratched (scarved ;-}) on the trail. I live in Staunton, Virginia where I-81 and I-64 (west from Richmond) join. 540-885-2949 gets my voice mail (only a 45 second message), or a FAX. I will try to get some photos scanned to send by FAX or by email for those in a hurry, and some good color shots for more leisurely, but serious, parties. (I'm in exams this week and won't be around during the daytime until Friday 12/15/95.) $12,500 - as is with all misc. parts, transfer case, etc. Offers below that figure will be considered, however, lower offers will not include parts. Thanks for the bandwidth, and have a Happy Holiday. Bo Beasley beasleyo@milo.cfw.com (Oscar Beasley) 540-885-2949 Voice Mail & FAX (Home) beasleoh@vax.acs.jmu.edu (Grad School) From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 11 95 Dec EST 1910 Date: 11 Dec 95 10:16:40 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Able Mechanic I am in need of a mechanic to do do minor repairs eg tune up's ,oil changes etc on my Series Rover's:1966 109 NADA wagon,1962 88" 3 door Ser 111,and a 1966 Ser 11A pick up truck, that works in the Central FL area. Please any suggestions?? Benjamin G. Newman Orlando Fl From William Caloccia Mon Dec 11 10:09:37 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 10:09:37 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: It's here. Wanted: Monster Rivit tool ? 4sale: Trans. Brake Shoes ? Hi All ! Well, after the removers left most of my stuff at the loft, (and most of the spare L-R parts (tail gate, bottom & top!; windscreen surround, left hand side for a safari wagon top, replacement brake & clutch parts, etc. etc.) [so am I the only LRO with L-R body parts under my bed ?], Saturday my task was to go up to the warehouse in Wakefield and pick up the SIIa then bring it up to my friend's in Tyngsboro, 'til I find shelter for the spare engine, diff and front axle case w/diff. So, of course, it had to be a good winter storm. And the right hand side of the Safari top was packed into the passenger's seat, so the ankle burner was entirely blocked off. After putting the doors back on (less a brass ball) I was off into the snow. With the spare engine, diffs, axle case, and five 109" rims in the rear, there was *lots* of traction, and it wasn't until I got up off the main road in Tyngsboro that I actually engaged 4wd. My legs were pretty cold from the draft, but I made it up to Tyngsboro and even passwd a bunch of sheep, err traffic, on route 3 who were queued up behind a lorry. Not often the top speed of a heavily laden L-R is above the rest of the traffic on the motorway :-) After a few more hours of snow we piled into my friends Ford F-350 pick-up and went back down to Wakefield, where it was pouring rain, and I retrieved my vehicle from the lot and we were off. Now I've just got to wait for it to get above freezing to rinse the salt off and unfreeze the tail gate glass latch on the RR. Anybody stateside looking for transmission brake shoes ? They sent me two sets, and I don't think I'll need the second set for quite a while, so it is available. Also, anyone in Mass. or nearby have a high-leverage rivit tool ? (You know the ones that look like bolt-cutters (not the plier type). The rivits for the station wagon top are huge, and I really need to get it on the vehicle 'cause there is not visibility to the left with the blind side top and RHD.) I'll also take suggestions on where to rent one. Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ L P R 1 3 2wd H 1 3 R dl OD L | R +--|--| o | |--|-+ o | | H N 2 4 4wd L 2 4 ul N H D L '63 SIIa 88" '72 RR '90 RR County 793-PTA DAJ-802-L From David Rosenbaum Mon Dec 11 09:47:00 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 09:47:00 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: clock in D90 Dear Alan, Thank-you for your message. I took the clock out yesterday and looked at it with a dissecting microscope. It is an interesting combination some type of computer "chip" but also a little motor and a series of gears (all of which seem to be made of nylon and/or plastic). One interesting wheel appeared to have a "rubber" ring on its perimeter and was surrounded by 4 close flat wire "contacts" (?). (I wonder if the ring is magnetized and receives or feeds back signal to the contacts to control speed...) Although the assembly looked dry to the naked eye, under the scope, the gears were almost DRIPPING with lubricant. I cleaned off a few tiny pieces of plastic or nylon that looked like milling remnants. I didn't have a good way to get rid of what appears to be excessive oil. The gear with the rubber ring wobbles a lot. The rubber ring was uneven with respect to gear that it was applied to, so I straighted that. In sum: not much in the way of "user serviceable" parts inside. The fact that the assembly looks so wet is further evidence for your idea about congealed lubricant to explain the recent slowing. I put the clock back in, and since our cold spell is over for now, I expect that it will run OK for now. Best wishes, David From joes@daka.com Mon Dec 11 18:09:31 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 18:09:31 -0800 (PST) From: joes@daka.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: Buying a Land-rover Guy, Please send a name(s), addresses or ph#'s of a garage(s) where you can get a . I'm serious, here in the Pacific NW a clean and not restored LR runs more than that. A totally rebuilt one goes for (asking price) $12,000-$25,000 from a garage. Here most LR's aren't driven they're "owned". Thanks, -Joe From William Caloccia Mon Dec 11 13:33:31 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:33:31 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Digest Problems Hi, Well odds are the digester got indigestion, and hurled the other 19 messages (most likely due to some input that it didn't like), as I've no longer access to the system which Major D is running on, I am unable to go back and take a look at the historical input to check up on it. If one of the real-time or real-time bulliten board people still has a copy of the following two messages and could forward them to me, I *might* be able to figure out the error, but I can't correct it until Major D is re-assigned. 1 johnliu@earthlink.net Sat Dec 9 02:52 38/4263 Buying Long Distance 2 JRBIRD@aol.com Sat Dec 9 04:12 14/797 subscribe Cheers, -B From "Walter C. Swain" Mon Dec 11 08:03:12 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:03:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 295+ Popular USA Titles (fwd) LROs All, I found the last magazine subsription scam message annoying enough to try tracking down their source. I got far enough (not far at all) to contact the Massey University computer folks and ask them about a possible breach of security. This is their response (below). For what it's worth, the last scam message did not include an email address for a response, so they must be getting a ration in response to these broadcasts. If we get another one, the last response address they gave was krazykev@kjl.com, and I'd suggest a massive onslaught in response. Multiple copies of the larger digests ought to get the message across. Walt Swain ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From RMJameson@aol.com Mon Dec 11 14:45:04 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:45:04 -0500 From: RMJameson@aol.com Subject: Air Pumps for Discovery It can't be that there are no Discoverys out there with air systems, can it? If you responded, sorry I missed it. I would like to find experiences with on board air systems for a '94 Discovery. Is it a really dumb idea? Does anyone have suggestions, air or driven? Are they make to fit Discoverys? Will they void the LR warranty? Anyone have experience with a particular brand? Any guesses as to the cost? etc. Thanks. From GElam30092@aol.com Mon Dec 11 15:01:45 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:01:45 -0500 From: GElam30092@aol.com Subject: FAQ Is there a FAQ or set of guidelines on importing older Land Rovers from the UK? All assistance is appreciated! Thanks.. Gerry E. Phoenix, AZ From Christopher Boese Mon Dec 11 12:18:04 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:18:04 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: magazine subscription spam Walter C. Swain wrote: > I found the last magazine subsription scam message annoying enough to try > tracking down their source. There's an interesting document on the Web - the Blacklist of Internet Advertisers, on which this spam appears. The List is at http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/BL/blacklist.html or http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~cbrown/BL/. For the story of the magazine spam, see http://www.cco.caltech.edu/~cbrown/BL/kl_info.txt. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Dec 11 13:27:23 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 13:27:23 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Used RR FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Used RR John, I didn't get your last e-mail... only one line, saying that you're thinking about getting a used RR yourself. I assumed there's more that I didn't get?? Questions? Comments? Looking back, I probably would still have gotten the one I did... Just from the overall condition of the RR I suspected that it was NOT well maintained mechanically. (Nor cosmetically!) But for the price... I still think it was a fair deal. Tips: Look at MANY RR's to get a feel for what's out there, condition, problems, etc. Ask "What problems have you had with it?" and "Is there anything AT ALL wrong with it?" (This will eat at their conscience if there is... provided it's not a car dealer, whom, as we all know, have no conscience.) Make a full sharp turn in both left and right, high and low range, and listen for any clunking, jerking, etc. while some throttle is applied. Test out the low range, and locking (about all you can do without really getting into it is to see if the light turns on when locked) Look into the oil fill opening. Neglected engine will be dirty and crusted with scum. (Not sure if a well maintained engine will have this since I have no experience there :-( but I don't think it would. Any unusual engine noises will SURELY be EXPENSIVE to fix. Don't assume it's a simple fix unless you KNOW for sure what it is. (Don't take their word for it, if it was an easy or inexpensive fix, then why didn't they fix it??) Assume the worst, then you won't be disappointed. I've also heard the P.S. boxes can leak profusely, and are quite expensive. Ask to see maintenance records if they have them. LOOK at them to see oil change frequency, any other problems... They gave me the name of their mechanic, whom I called and found out more things that have been replaced, but couldn't comment on oil changes. (not done by him... maybe just not done!) Look for un-matched paint color OR finish. Mine had obviously been in an accident, they admitted to it, due to the dull finish on parts, shinier on other parts. Check for leaks, (keep in mind, it IS a LR ;-) ) Pointing out leaks and flaws may help the price negotiating. Keep in mind what is cosmetic, or easily fixed by yourself, and what is not. Keep in mind... it is a vehicle, not that unlike a Chevy or Ford (yuck!) aka no fear in doing minor repairs yourself. (with the proper knowledge and tools) Good luck, feel free to write back if you have any more or specific questions. I WILL reply, so if no response, I probably didn't get your message. Try again. Thanks, and good luck... Dave (smarter now, but poorer) Brown. #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Dec 11 13:08:53 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:08:53 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: How many are left ?? In message you wrote: > > If only I could grep through the various DMV databases for the 50 > > states on the word Rover.... > The problem with this type of number playing is many... I know the problems, but it puts a better baseline to extrapolate from than pulling a number out of the middle of nowwhere. > Rover North America says X Land Rovers were imported and sold. > Fine, but.... This number does not include those imported directly [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > been here... The 16k figure was arrived at in an unscientific > way... Unscientific? It was using the availible numbers. I've heard 16k mentioned many times. Then I actually looked at the data that James Taylor put together. And 16k meets the that criteria. Argueably that only covers the Rovers imported by LR directly. How many LRs would have been brought in by the Canadian Gov't? 4k? I still think that the numbers are closer to 16k (or even 20k) than 50k. Ben From Christopher Boese Mon Dec 11 13:22:36 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 13:22:36 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: creaky Discovery rear door - the cure On the fourth go, someone at Symes LR not only heard the really loud creaking noise but also got rid of it. The solution? Lubricating the rear door hinges and tightening their bolts. That was all, after four visits and several hundred miles of driving back and forth to Pasadena. Bravo for Tom, the new LR Service Manager. If it weren't for him, I might have continued my slide into madness brought on by that noise. Now I can concentrate on taking on the snow that's supposed to be here within a day or two. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From Rob Bailey Mon Dec 11 14:33:41 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:33:41 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Subject: Re: Buying a Land-rover >I have to chuckle at these peolpe who think they can buy a Series >rover with a rust free frame and everything working for under >$2000.00. I hate to inform these newbies that it is never going to >happen unless you find some widow in the northern woods who doesn't >know what her husband had for a vehicle. I disagree. I bought my 1963 SIIa SWB S/W for $1200CDN. It has a great frame, a solid engine and tons of spare parts. The main problems were missing front seats and really bad brakes. I purchased a set of used seats for $60, and put another $125 into the brakes and seals. You just have to watch and wait for the deals to come along. My Rover is far from new shape, but I can't remember any trees complaining after being massaged by it's dented/multi-coloured body (damn tree should have moved, anyways!). Rob From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 11 95 Dec EST 1916 Date: 11 Dec 95 16:41:28 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Frozen ground - treacherous My friend Gunter's not in the best of moods these days because on the weekend, when offroading at our favourite venue (US firing range - big holes!) he managed to throw a spanking new Disco on its side. The damage is extensive and the slippage happened in the first place because the ground/mud was *frozen*, hard as concrete. He tried to negotiate a declining rutted passage by balancing the vehicle on top of the mounds (the ruts were too deep to drive in them), and though the Disco was equipped with Mud-Terrains, the profile had nothing to grip as it just didn't sink into the frozen ground. The vehicle went into a slow, uncontrollable slide, fell into the righthand rut, and over it went, sliding on its right side to a painful halt to the sound of shattering glass and screeching aluminum. Recovery was relatively easy, again due to the hard ground, and naturally the car was still fully functional - Gunter's still driving around in it, with plastic foil in the windows... (Just FYI, the air bags *didn't* deploy). The lesson from this would be that even the most aggressive of tires are useless if the mud is frozen solid, and that you should, if at all possible, avoid even modest descents on frozen ground. I would actually advise a kind of 'reverse recovery': Secure the vehicle with the winch and/or ropes and carefully let it down until you reach level ground again. Once you start slipping you're definitely bound for trouble... Treading *very* lightly on frozen land, Stefan From benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Mon Dec 11 17:53:19 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 17:53:19 -0500 From: benedick@emh1.pa.net (KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT) Subject: Follow up calls after service Hi All: I have received follow-up phone calls from the folks at LRNA each time my Disco. was in for service at our dealer, except the last time. I was wondering if they always do this or just some of the time. Kris- 94 White Disco.- Thumper From Christopher Boese Mon Dec 11 15:35:07 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 15:35:07 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Follow up calls after service KRIS/DARWYN BENEDICT wrote: > I have received follow-up phone calls from the folks at LRNA each time my > Disco. was in for service at our dealer, except the last time. I was > wondering if they always do this or just some of the time. They've never called me, and I've been back four or five times in the last two months (creaky rear door, inoperable fuel pump, detached CD player cover, defective passenger door check strap.) It's just as well; I might have sounded grumpy. Still, the techs at the dealer have actually been very thorough and done good work. They just need time. -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office '95 Beluga Black Discovery From "Francis J. Twarog" Mon Dec 11 19:42:21 1995 Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 19:42:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: stuff Well, to answer part of yesterday's trivia, here are 13 things that differentiate a base '95 NAS 90 from a MY94... 1.Front bumper no longer integrates turn signals - moved up to wing w/ larger oval amber lense (reminiscent of military typr only bigger). 2. Doors stay open when put into "lock" position. 3. Rear door actually comes with an exterior lock (duh!) 4. Door tops and fast back top included in base price. 5. BFG A/Ts standard - M/Ts become optional. 6. Riv nuts for fiberglass hardtop preinstalled and colorcoated. 7. Beefier stereo and rear speakers. 8. Front doors have map pockets integrated - (in LRNA lit. the rear gate has a pocket too, but I've never seen a '95 with it actually in place.) 9. Pockets behind front seats - plastic protective pieces applied to prevent seats from tearing due to rubbing against x-bar of cage. 10. Rear turn signals round instead of square. 11. Arles blue no longer available on softtop model - "limited" black becomes color choice (sans leather seats) 12. R380 'box replaces LT85. Lighter actiFrom "Steve Reddock" Tue Dec 12 06:31:15 1995 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 06:31:15 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Lightwieght history Hi, Land Rover have taken over the records for these vehicles. If you write to them at: Rover Heritage Museum, Gaydon, Warwickshire, England, giving them all the numbers you can find on the car they will tell you everything they know and give you a nice certificate. They want a fee for this of course, 25 quid sounds familiar. The other place to try is the Army Transport Museum, Beverly, Yorkshire England. They (obviously) have all the records for military service and can tell you what regiment your vehicle was with, etc. They prefer to have the military reg. no which is often stamped onto the chassis number plate. I made up both addresses, based on knowing where they are, but as they are both in small villages there is no danger of needing more information. Minor technicality, a pre 75 Landy will not have a VIN, only a chassis number. Have fun, Steve Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From ey-postmaster@geis.com Tue Dec 12 13:51:00 1995 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 95 13:51:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 3526532 Original Msg Id: 486477 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Tue 12-Dec-95 13:51 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From Danny Phillips Wed Dec 13 9:55:19 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 9:55:19 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest index lro-digest From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Wed Dec 13 08:23:39 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:23:39 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: 951213 Digest Subject digest only 1/3 complete. Please transmit (retransmit) entire digest. Get command also gets 1/3 of this digest. Thanks, Rick 90 RR(the Money Pit) alias "BOHICA" From "Tom Rowe" Wed Dec 13 07:36:28 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:36:28 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Report (US) Kurt Reinhart writes: Snip > pre-selection two weeks ago. If you are interested I can post a small report > about the tasks ;-) > now the adress... > http://www.4x44u.com/pub/k2/am4x44u/whats_new/whats_new.htm I took a look at the page and what did I find? The Turtle Expedition, the traitors! For those of you who don't know, the Turtle Expedition began their South & Central America expedition in a '67 NADA 109 converted to the Chevy six. They used to sing the praises of LR then, when they found that they could get their travels paid for by corporate sponsors, they got a Chevy then a Ford. When they made the original switch to the Chevy, Gary Wescott (who reports on the Camel Trophy event) started ragging on LR's. If you go back and read his magazine articles it's quite interesting the number of falacies he states about LR's. It's no wonder he had problems if he knew as little about them as it appears in the articles. Grrrrr. Sorry for the rant. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Wed Dec 13 08:57:00 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:57:00 -0500 From: michelbe@praline.net (Michel) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest does it again > I don't know what happened but I only got portions of the list on dec 10th and december 13th. Could someone on the net be kind enough to mail me the complete lists of these two days. It would be very appreciated. Thank you Michel Bertrand Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada 1963 IIA 109 PU (Rudolph) 1968-9 IIA 109 SW-Nada (in the works) 1973 III 88 (21st century project) From Rob Bailey Wed Dec 13 07:06:29 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:06:29 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Re: Andrew Balser On Wed, 13 Dec 1995 Andrew Balser wrote: > Say, who is this wierdo who supposes he will find a good, solid > working, happy series for under $2,000.00? I want some of the drugs he > is on!! Not that one can't find a great little freaker '88 for under > $5,000, but that is a significant jump in price. It sounds to me like you have plenty of cheap drugs already... If you sober up long enough, you can come and look at my 88. I've seen several other friends' LR's that have been had for considerably less than $5000US. Maybe its just a case of a lack of Land Rovers where you're located (Alaska, come on, think about it! Besides, not everybody lives in the States). In fact there is a '70 88 S/W in the Calgary Bargain Finder for $1800CDN, and every few weeks one or two LR's are listed there. I have no idea what kind of shape there in, but if you dismiss them based solely on price, that's your your loss, they could be a real deals! Rob BTW, a good twelve step program might be in order, unless you're still in the denial stages... From Ron Franklin Wed Dec 13 09:15:32 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 09:15:32 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Koenig winch parts, Ser II -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Could anyone help me with my rebuild of the Koenig winch on my '59 ser II pickup ? This is the model which is driven from the front of the crankshaft , allowing the use of an overdrive at the same time. (model lr-591,controls at winch; or lr-591, cab controls). Mine is the cab control model, but i could use the pieces for lr-591 as well. what I need is the casting which holds the drum clutch and all the attached levers and parts, mine having been wiped out by a PO. Also missing are the operating levers and linkages, and here is where either type would be useful. I could fabricate all of this but would rather spend my efforts elsewhere. The rest of the winch is in good shape, and worth the effort. If someone has a parts winch I could buy some pieces from, it would be just the berries. Actually the clutch drum lever ,brake, pin, and some of the small parts are the same as those on the Koenig L621 PTO winch. I have the original parts and owners manuals for all of these winches and can supply the parts numbers if that helps. On another subject, another difference in early ser II's which is obvious from the outside by omission is the lack of the horn normally visible through the grill. A much larger horn is used which is mounted in the right wing near the firewall. The wiring harness is also much different on early ser II's as my 59 and 61 have entirely different harnesses, the 61 being nearly identical to a IIA's. Just curious, has anyone any experience with putting a Cummins 4BT in a Series Rover, as this is my current project, and it involves a lot of creative engineering. From Rob Bailey Wed Dec 13 07:17:19 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 07:17:19 -0700 (MST) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Digest Version is really screwed up... Does anybody know what the deal is with the list server? Previously, it was every once in a while that the digest would get screwed up, but lately its been commonplace. Should all of the digest mode subscribers change over to the Real-Time list? I can't imagine that helping things too much, but it is very frustrating (to say the least) to miss 95% of the messages from a particular day. If anybody has any ideas, please respond to the list AND email, as it's been quite rare lately to receive the entire digest. Rob From ey-postmaster@geis.com Wed Dec 13 13:36:00 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 13:36:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 7565994 Original Msg Id: 490646 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Wed 13-Dec-95 13:36 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From "Bill Skidmore" 13 1995 Dec -0500 1910 Date: 13 Dec 1995 10:30:35 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: MajorDomo Bitten by Joe Lucas! OK, what's going on today! 6 out of thirty messages transmitted in the end-of-day recoup? Are the near-real-time subscribers having the same problems? If not, I = may as well try my luck with the real-time list! On a different note - anyone have used bench or rear, inward-facing jump = seats that they'd like to part with? I've looked over the NAS D90 SW jump = seats, and they appear to be the same as the 110's, but I can't find any = significant difference between them and the 88"'s jump seats to justify = the cost difference (+US$200 for the 110's/90's, based on RN and AB = quotes, versus the 110's replacement cost, which didn't include seat = belts). Further, on the fit and finish of the NAS D90 SW - LRNA now taking lessons = on inside trim from Chevrolet? There's more plastic trim inside than I've = seen on many other cars, reminds me of a cheap domestic pickup truck; = definitely mixed signals - trying to make the D90 as civilized as the = Disco or Rangy! Darn thing even has carpeting all over (I can imagine = what mud and creek fording will do to that after a few years!). Bill Skidmore 94 D90 (40+ miles, dirty, scratched and proud of it!) From Russell Burns Wed Dec 13 8:01:13 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 8:01:13 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re:D90 SW > Further, on the fit and finish of the NAS D90 SW - LRNA now taking lessons = > on inside trim from Chevrolet? There's more plastic trim inside than I've = [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Bill Skidmore > 94 D90 (40+ miles, dirty, scratched and proud of it!) Ya but you can almost justify buying one for the wife. Russ Burns 91 Range Rover (77K miles dirty, scratched and dented) 94 D-90 (38K also dirty, scratched and dented) 95 D90 SW on order for the wife.... From Donald Unger Wed Dec 13 08:20:17 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 08:20:17 -0800 (PST) From: Donald Unger Subject: Military Land Rovers for SALE Lion Hearted Vehicles here in Oregon has Shorland MKIII APVs and 101s for sale. Contact Greg Cash, Lionhearted Vehicles (Fax/Phone 541-946-1611) for details. I am not affiliated in any way with the company. Don Unger From Larry James Wed Dec 13 09:01:30 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:01:30 -0800 (PST) From: Larry James Subject: subscribe subscribe From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Wed Dec 13 09:16:35 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:16:35 -0800 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 in a few months. I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what additional parts or changes might be required to mount the hard top. I seem to recall that there were some peculiarities about the rear door that needed to be changed on the '94 compared to the '95. Didn't the door lock or handle change or something like that? TIA Cheers, Jeremy From slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Wed Dec 13 09:36:59 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 09:36:59 -0800 From: slade@teleport.com (Michael Slade) Subject: Re: Military Land Rovers for SALE I called them this morning, and the fax # is just a regular phone. I tried to send a fax, but the guy picked up instead. So, I talked w/him for about 5 minutes. He's got 1 (one) 101 coming from England in a container and should be here around February. I've been down this road before (see: Roverworks), so am real leary of an operation like this. However, if you're interested in a 101 it might be worth a call. I'm sending him a copy of the LRO list as he's on e-mail. His address BTW is: MILVEH@aol.com Good luck. I may go down to see it when/if it ever gets here. Later, Michael From Gary Mitchelson Wed Dec 13 13:30:25 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 13:30:25 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Popular Science -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's" Don't let LR know they aren't trendy! -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From Mike Fredette~ Wed Dec 13 11:58:31 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:58:31 +22305823 (MST) From: Mike Fredette~ Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? > I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 > in a few months. I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > door lock or handle change or something like that? > Jeremy The changes needed have nothing to do with the rear door per say. The 95 models have a lockable (with a key) rear door but the 94's do not. So you need to replace the rear latch assy with a new keyed one or face the prospect of clibming over the seats each time you want lock or unlock the rear. The more serious aspect is that they changed the angle of the dangle, as it were, of the rear roll cage support on the 95's. It attaches to the bed rail a bit (2 in) farther back than the 94. This means you get to cut/hack a new notch in the new hardtop since the notch already there is in the wrong locale. Also, the 95s have the rivnuts for attaching the top already installed in the bed rails while the 94's don't, this means drilling a dozen or so 8mm holes and installing said rivnuts. There is a retro fit kit that contains the rivnuts, and a cute little piece o plastic to cover up the unsightly notch left over for the low low bargain basement price of $84.00. Just buy the hard top and order the rivnuts from RN for a nickle or so each and build your own piece o plastic. I've had mine on for a year now, no leaks and much quieter than the soft top, a bit fragile though. I crunched it pretty good on a tree while screwing up the line on a nasty side slope. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 D90 67 88 RHD Phoenix Az, soon to be Portland again From William Caloccia Wed Dec 13 14:04:24 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:04:24 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: sub $1000. land rovers abalser@merlin.salrm.alaska.edu (Andrew Balser) writes: > Say, who is this wierdo who supposes he will find a good, solid, working, h > appy series for under $2,000.00? Well, lets see, my IIA is in great shape and it cost me just under $1000. Then there was a rear cross member w/ extentions, a gas tank outrigger, a set of 16" LWB wheels, a spare diff, another spare diff, with axle case, an engine, a safari SW top, a tail gate, a tailgate top, tail gate fixings, mud sheilds, ignition parts, genuine brake parts (near all of 'em), genuine clutch parts (most of 'em), steering parts (some of 'em), the odd genuine gasket (lots of 'em), a battery and a wee bit o' labour). Some dosh for the shipping company, some more for the docks and a bit for customs. So to date my sub-$1000. Land Rover only has chewed a hole about about six times bigger in my pocket, and I've only had it in my possession for a total of 10 days driven it four times (another month in a container and another 10 days at my mechanic's in Berkhamstead before it was shipped). > I want some of the drugs he is on!! I dare say you can't afford to do drugs if you own an old Rover. > Not that one can't find a great little freaker '88 for under $5,000, but > that is a significant jump in price. Well, not really :-) Anyone one interested in a solid-sided top for an 88" (after I assemble my safari top that is). Cheers, --bill caloccia@openmarket.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ R 1 3 2wd H "Land Rover's first, because +--|--| o | Land Rovers last." 2 4 4wd L '63 SIIa 88" - '72 & '90 Range Rover From "Gerald" Wed Dec 13 16:19:06 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:19:06 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: 96 shop manuals Anyone have a source for 96 shop manuals for Discos? Metro West says that they won't be in for a while. Do they exist yet for any 96 LR products, NAS or otherwise? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Dec 13 13:47:15 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 13:47:15 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Popular Science In message <199512131835.NAA10666@butler.uk.stratus.com> Gary Mitchelson writes: > In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new ; Jeep Cheeroke and the have an interesting note, PS says "The grand Cherokee > thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's" ; > Don't let LR know they aren't trendy! That they are NOT trendy???? Ever look at the new Range Rover?? Those cars were never ment for off road driving. The side steps and front valance would hang up in no time. I asked the dealer about this once. He said that they were told that the purchaser will never take these cars off roading. They are ment to take people to ski lodges in style. While the Discos are very off road capable, they were designed to take only small diameter tyres and have those plastic dohickies on the sides just aching to be broken. All out ruggidness? Just look at the interiors and the questions people have been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such. See what happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 feet of water They took the D90 off the US market for '96 leaving trendy plush statusmobiles. TeriAnn twakeman@apple.com From Christopher Boese Wed Dec 13 14:39:00 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:39:00 -0800 From: Christopher Boese Subject: Re: Popular Science TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > They took the D90 off the US market for '96 leaving trendy plush statusmobiles. When I bought my '95 Discovery, I would have preferred a hardtop Defender 90. But I live in the area of some of the highest yearly precipitation in Southern California and so can't drive convertibles. The hardtop version of the D90 wasn't available at the time and would have cost more than my Discovery in any case. If Land Rover weren't so afraid of losing their flash image, they might have put a basic Land Rover into their lineup. I could have saved myself several thousand dollars and gotten better off-road performance besides. BTW, with the first rains of the winter this morning, my Discovery has begun to leak, apparently out of the left rear speaker housing. Wasn't there a post on this a couple of months ago? Perhaps I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few towels. 8-) -- Christopher Boese County of San Bernardino, California Information Services, Information Systems Security Office From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 13 17:40:34 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 17:40:34 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Major woes Once again, a truncated message...30+ replies to the digest, but only the first five and a portion of the 6th (from johnliu@earthlink.net) got posted out. Can any real-timers detect any similarities between the 6th message of 12/13 and the first message of the 12/10 digest. "Doctor Watson...come quickly...." *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From William Owen Wed Dec 13 16:40:45 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:40:45 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions I've started looking for a 87-90 (maybe even a 91 if I wait a few months) Range Rover. Currently drive a 88 Cherokee and am ready for a more serious and capable off road vehicle. I love the disco but can't afford a new one ( yet!). This will be a daily driver as well as off road vehicle. It will see snow, muddy fields and trails, and creek and ditch crossings. Probably not much rock hopping, but one never knows. I know the D90 and Disco have locking center diffs and open rear diffs. The newer RR don't seem to have even locking center diffs but do have Traction control. I am guessing that Traction Control involves the anti lock brake system, but am not sure. The dealer only says it "puts power to all four wheels" - not real helpful. I also don't believe TC was available on the older models I'm considering. In addition, I am somewhat concerned about the open rear diff and whether this will affect performance and traction. I have read that it doesn't matter in a RR and am sold on the RR over all, just looking for a little reassurance as to the effect of open rear diffs on traction, especially in snow and mud. Sure would hate to see a Cherokee with LSD have to pull me out. So . . . What is traction control and is it available on the older RR I'm considering? Should I be concerned about the lack of locking center diffs and the open rear diffs? especially as it relates to snow and mud traction. Is there any other advice anyone can give me as I search for my RR? Things to look for or to avoid. I've heard 89 is better than 87-88. True? Thanks in advance for all your help. A hopefully soon to be Range Rover owner From "John Y. Liu" Wed Dec 13 14:35:14 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 14:35:14 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 13 15:19:22 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:19:22 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Popular Science >From: Christopher Boese[SMTP:cboese@co.san-bernardino.ca.us] >When I bought my '95 Discovery, I would have preferred a hardtop Defender 90. But I live in the >area of some of the highest yearly precipitation in Southern California and so can't drive >convertibles. The hardtop version of the D90 wasn't available at the time and would have cost >more than my Discovery in any case. You're not complaining about your Disco, now, are you? Though, I have to confess, that I've secretly thought about trading mine for a Hard-Top D-90 since it has the back seats and all...... >If Land Rover weren't so afraid of losing their flash image, they might have put a basic Land >Rover into their lineup. I could have saved myself several thousand dollars and gotten better >off-road performance besides. I doubt that it's anything like that. My guess is that since LR only sells such a small number of cars in the North American market (relatively speaking) it only makes economic sense to sell the Hi-end (i.e. High Margin) units. The "mystique" of being a status symbol makes it that much easier to charge "full" price. _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From William Caloccia Wed Dec 13 18:21:41 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:21:41 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Major woes > Once again, a truncated message...30+ replies to the digest, but only the > first five and a portion of the 6th (from johnliu@earthlink.net) got posted > out. Can any real-timers detect any similarities between the 6th message o f > 12/13 and the first message of the 12/10 digest. "Doctor Watson...come > quickly...." Hi y'all, Well, I looked at a case the other day, but was unable to detect the source of the problem - and part of that might be because the real-timers messages are 'digested' individually, though by a slightly different script (the script that does the daily digest is a bit more complicated as it deals with multiple messages and has to re-start at the start of the next message, etc.) So, there are no apparent goofy things that the real-time folks receive. Cheers, -B From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 07:20:28 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:20:28 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions Regarding centre diff lock: the newer Range Rovers have a viscous coupling in place of the original manually locked centre diff. This is in effect an automatically locking centre diff, ie allows differential action up to a point, similar to the torque converter in an automatic tranny. AFAIK much superior to the original set up as it is simpler and more reliable. Regarding traction control and open diffs: the electronic traction control (ETC), employs sensors which detect wheelspin and apply brakes to that wheel via the ABS, thereby transferring torque to the wheel that isn't spinning. A nice idea but to me it seems a bit gimmicky and prone to problems. I would much rather see some sort of locking diff instead. For some reason Land Rover seem to resist the idea of locking diffs, relying on superior axle travel to keep them ahead of the competition. Best bet is to chuck in a set of ARB air lockers. Cheers. ==================================================================== _____________________ /_____________________\ Tony Yates | | | | Port Hedland _ | _________ _ _________ | _ Western Australia |-| |[_________] [_________]| |-| |_| ----------------------- |_| \| \ =============== / |/ A.Yates@bom.gov.au ======================= |o _ |===========| _ o| Opinions expressed /| (_)|===========|(_) |\ here are almost but ||o____|===========|____o|| not quite entirely ||_______________________|| unlike those of the \[_______________________]/ Bureau of Meteorology. |\|/|---\_/---------|\|/| |\|/| |\|/| ----- ----- ===================================================================== From carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Thu Dec 14 10:29:58 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 10:29:58 EST From: carley@manly.civeng.unsw.EDU.AU (James Carley - WRL Staff) Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions Others may be able to answer this better, but, in the time period between locking centre diffs and Traction control existed the Viscous Coupling. For those who don't know them, a Viscous coupling acts like an open diff under normal conditions, but automatically and gradually locks up when a predetermined degree of slip is encountered. Never looked at one closely but have read that they are about the size of a jam tin, full of closely spaced plates with a special fluid between them, which I think is supposed to increase dramatically in viscosity when subjected to shear. (Classified as a non-Newtonian fluid in fluid mech), thus locking up the input & output of the jam tin. Regards James Carley Sydney Australia '85 110 From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 10:14:18 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:14:18 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Ruggedness... TeriAnn writes the depressing truth: > All out ruggidness? Just look at the interiors and the questions people > have been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such. > See what happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 > feet of water How about after wading in 2 - 3 metres. These new vehicles would be basket cases.... At least with the old series (and to a certain extent the base D90's and 110"s) jobbies all you had to do was find a good fire hose. Mind you getting the "tide mark" out of the hood lining takes time... Still if I just leave it covered in dust no one notices. I suppose this is the price we have to pay for our kidneys lasting longer :-( cheers -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Wed Dec 13 15:40:29 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 15:40:29 -0800 From: cyoungso@Direct.CA (Chris Youngson) Subject: 2.25 Black cleaning Well the time has come to clean and start rebuilding my engine. My questions are: - How and with what do I clean the block? I have all the freeze plugs out and I also want to clean the water and oil ways. - How do I know if the cam bearings need replacing? Mine look pretty scratched up. - Should I take out the soft pipe plug at the front of the fuel pump side? - What, if any sealant should I used when I reinstall the plugs? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanx, 73 Chris Youngson, VE7CST West Vancouver, BC 1965 109 From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 13 16:23:07 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:23:07 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Ruggedness... I think you could pretty much kiss your ECU good bye on the V8i engines (the kind found here in the states) after a 3 meter (10'!!!) or even a 2 meter wading episode. Not to mention the driver unless they are SCUBA equipped! The lack of an ignition system is a powerful advantage to the Diesel engine over the gas (petrol) engine when it comes to submersion. Q: is the fuel injection on the 3.0 TDi Electronic or Mechanical? The lack of all that electronic wizardry would seem to be an advantage in the "wild". Q: doesn't the Turbo object to being dunked in water (shock cooling, etc) ---------- From Simon Barclay Thu Dec 14 11:29:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 11:29:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") I have had fairly extensive 'experience' with water and mud over the door sills and even water over the bonnet (without a cover over the grill to keep it out of the engine in one instance) (in both two and four door Range Rovers and series LR's) and have never had any getting in (in RR's). One thing worth checking (on older models in particular) is that where cabling is running through the bulkhead grommets, they have a liberal coating of water sealant of some sort. And of course ensure all the bungs are in place in the floor and around the gearbox housing. Windows closed and fan on (fresh air, not recirculated) can help "pressurise" the cabin as well!! - this can make escape difficult if you fall into a hole. Make sure you walk the route first! One particular trip in 1979 (in a s111 109) we drove for two days with water over the top of the gear box after flash flooding in the north east of South Australia!!! It would squirt up from the pedals when you changed gear or braked, sloped out of the gear shift gaiter... great fun. It was like being in a moving bath - as it was pretty warm water in November. Had to sleep in it too - watching the brown snakes looking for dry ground - very comforting. Generally the more recent models ('80 onwards are pretty good)! Oh - don't forget to put the wading plug in the bellhousing! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5 sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) From "Walter C. Swain" Wed Dec 13 16:39:29 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:39:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Wading In RR John, In the interest of objective scientific inquiry, I'd suggest that you acquire a representative Range Rover sample and conduct some rigorous testing at different depths and exposure times. You can ignore such variables as stream flow velocities. Jim Russell can verify that exposure time and depth can vary directly with flow 8^) Just hypothetically, I'd expect that a quick trip through a stream depth of 2 feet or so would result in minimal inflows. I'd be inclined to avoid prolonged soaking on the assumption that there will be some places that are not perfectly sealed, and that the water will quickly find those places. In addition, there is the minor question of just how waterproof the Lucas electrical system is on one of these pampered plush-mobiles. I plan to do some testing of my own this winter and if it doesn't work out favorably I'm sure we'll all hear about it from whoever I've conned into going with me on the fateful trip. Walt * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Walter C. Swain | wcswain@dcn.davis.ca.us * * Davis Community Network | 1988 Range Rover * * Davis, California | 1967 109 Series IIA Safari SW * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, John Y. Liu wrote: > A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Wed Dec 13 16:47:43 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 16:47:43 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Popular Science >All out ruggidness? Just look at the interiors and the questions people have >been asking on the net about CD changers, automatic sunroffs & such. See what >happens when you take a new Range Rover of Disco wading in 2 or 3 feet of water Been there, done that. (well only up to 2') The Disco seemed to be a lot less nervous about it than the driver (and owner, me) was, Granted, if water started to seep inside, there'd be some sparks flying. Come on, lighten up. Is there anything wrong with 4-wheeling while riding in air-conditioned luxury, enjoying the view through the automatic sunroof while listening to the "sound's of nature" on the CD? (and, of course, sipping our latte's while eating Cheese & Crackers with liberal portions of Grey Poupon!) I'll admit, that it's something like "roughing it" in a 40' Motor home :-) _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From William Caloccia Wed Dec 13 19:50:58 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 19:50:58 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") > A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Ra > nge Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, > ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Actually, the Previous OWners had the interior cleaned and that left the plush carpets soggy. And the foam behind the felt over the transmission tunnel, and the foam behind the rubber under the plush carpets. (Actually that sh*t released the glue holding the foam to the rubber matts !) So I ripped out all the foam and felt and plush carpets and then finished wiring the cell phone and put the rubber matts and those keen tyre-tread matts back in place. I'd consider putting some carpeting back in, but it'd be too much effor to clean it out, and by the time it is warm enough to think about it, it probably will have disintegrated from the cleaner stuff in it. > Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic > -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) Gee, I haven't taken one for a swim yet, but you'll know pretty fast, 'cause the first thing to get soaked (even before the CD player) is the ABS computer (under the drivers seat) and the electric seat motors. Cheers, --bill caloccia@OpenMarket.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ 1 3 R dl OD L "Land Rover's first, because |--|-+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 ul N H '72 & '90 Range Rover From EvanD103@aol.com Wed Dec 13 20:06:11 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:06:11 -0500 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Only got the first five of thirty postings of the digest today. What's going on? I'm having withdrawl symptoms! Erik van Dyck Stone Mountain, Georgia 1973 Ser III 88" From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 09:22:57 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:22:57 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Wading In RR Shortly after I bought my 110 V8 I decided to test it's wading ability in a small puddle, about 2.5ft deep and 30ft long on a track near Windy Harbour. As soon as I entered the water the engine started to sputter and die. Luckily I just made it to the other end and didn't have to get my feet wet, not that I mind getting wet, more the embarrasment I was worried about. As soon as I got home I waterproofed the ignition with silicone. Shortly after I was transferred to Darwin and the next water crossing I attempted had a very large sign next to it warning of the local infestation of large salt water crocodiles. This crossing was deeper and wider so it was a real case of fingers crossed... Anyway it worked; I seem to remember reading somewhere that the V8 is specially designed so that the front pulley sprays water directly on to the distributor; neat. I also read somewhere of a chap in the UK who waterproofs his distributor with spray on polystyrene foam! This is only vaguely relevant to the thread of the discussion.. Cheers. Tony. From "Nick C. Baggarly" Wed Dec 13 17:32:37 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 17:32:37 -0800 From: "Nick C. Baggarly" Subject: Wanted Hi I'm partially restoring a Dormobile 109SW and am looking for the following... + original cabinet (This is a dormobile item only. Rare, I know). + door panel- Front right upholstered in rhino hide + 1/2 roof rack (fits over the cab area only) with tension clamps (I'm especially looking for these clamps with the big tension screw knob) + like new headliner Contact me if you have, or know where I can pickup, any of these items. Thanks! Nick C. Baggarly '66 SIIA 88 (Seymour) '64 Dormobile Los Gatos, Cale From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 12:20:17 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:20:17 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: wading ad infinitum.. > Granted, if water started to seep inside, there'd be some sparks flying. This is the crux of the problem, In some places its not a matter of if, but when and how deep. Unless you are *very* heavily laden there may come a time when the vehicle wants to float, (eg Reynolds river crossing in Litchfield park NT Oz.) If you hope to continue some water *must* enter the car to reduce the bouyancy. At the reynolds its usually about 3-4" over the drivers floor and 1-2" across the rear load bay on a sIII 109 wagon before you get full traction again. Now I know that early 2dr rangies could get away with only an inch or so over the front floor, the long droop on the suspension mops up the rest.. I dont know how the new rangies and disco go, never been there when one drove through nor have I seen one stuck so they must make it OK. > Come on, lighten up. > Is there anything wrong with 4-wheeling while riding in air-conditioned > luxury, enjoying the view through the automatic sunroof while listening to > the "sound's of nature" on the CD? (and, of course, sipping our latte's > while eating Cheese & Crackers with liberal portions of Grey Poupon!) Absolutely nothing wrong with riding in comfort (I'm just jealous really), I just dont like the idea of any vital and/or expensive electronic gizmos below about the level of the seat base in vehicles that are going to be used for deep extended water crossings. Call me a reactionary.... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From David Rosenbaum Wed Dec 13 18:24:08 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 18:24:08 -0800 (PST) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: Popular Science On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Christopher Boese wrote: (snip) > I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few towels. 8-) Dear Chris: My D-90 is two years old and hardly leaks at all with the soft-top on. If it sits in the rain so that water collects on the top, then water will run off the top as you're getting in (weight shifting) and this water sometimes gets inside. Otherwise, it is great in the rain. I have gotten drenched on those occasions when it rains or pours and the Land Rover is *topless*.....And I keep towels under the dash for wiping off the inside of the windshield when driving under those conditions Best wishes from ..... Seattle. David '94 D90 (turns two in two weeks!) From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 10:29:29 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 10:29:29 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: wading ad infinitum.. Ever since reading about all the electronic gismos in the new RR I have had this recurring vision: The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine management chip fuses into a little useless blob, the RR settles gently on it's electronic air suspension with a slight hiss, the AC cuts out, AC/DC on the CD player are cut off in mid scream, you can't open the windows, the security system goes into terminal overload and permanently locks the doors, the electronic seat controls, in a dying spasm, shove the seat forward and trap you against the steering column,.....silence descends,.....the temperature starts to rise,.... Two months later you are discovered. With a last dying gasp from the battery a message is scrolling across the diagnostic display.... check driver.........check driver........check driver....... Happy thoughts. #;-) From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Wed Dec 13 21:30:54 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 21:30:54 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: 2.25 Black cleaning Chris Youngson wrote, >Well the time has come to clean and start rebuilding my engine. >My questions are: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >- How do I know if the cam bearings need replacing? Mine > look pretty scratched up. Chris, there is virtually no other way to be sure the oil and water passages are clear unless you take the block to a machine shop equipped with a boiling tank and have it done. This is not expensive and very much worth the money. If you're installing a new camshaft, then I would definitely change the bearings out if they appear that scratched. If you're putting the old one back in, and there isn't excessive play in the shaft, then I wouldn't worry about it too much. Probably get years of service. From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 14:00:41 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:00:41 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies. Tony muses: > The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a > summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine > management chip fuses into a little useless blob < rest of story deleted to prevent recurrent nightmares.> Speaking of the canning and other remote tracks. Does anyone have a copy of the photos printed some years back, in Overlander magazine I think, which show i) a burnt out sIII near one of the wells (38,42?) on the canning ( forgot to clear the grass from the radiator when they went looking at the well :-) and ii) the burnt out Rangie 2 dr half buried in the sand along the finke river "track". Urrgh nasty stuff. I want my teddie bear...... -- Daryl From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Thu Dec 14 14:02:23 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:02:23 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies. Tony muses: > The scene: midway up the Canning Stock Route, (Great Sandy Desert), a > summer storm, a lightning strike nearby, the RR motor dies as the engine > management chip fuses into a little useless blob < rest of story deleted to prevent recurrent nightmares. > Speaking of the canning and other remote tracks. Does anyone have a copy of the photos printed some years back, in Overlander magazine I think, which show i) a burnt out sIII near one of the wells (38,42?) on the canning ( forgot to clear the grass from the radiator when they went looking at the well :-) and ii) the burnt out Rangie 2 dr half buried in the sand along the finke river "track". Urrgh nasty stuff. I want my teddie bear...... -- Daryl From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Dec 13 22:44:11 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:44:11 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Reposting of US Camel Trophy finalists Since the major chomped the 12/13 digest, here's a repost of the results... After thirty two hours of near non-stop exertion, the four finalists for the US Camel Trophy team were selected over the weekend at the Hollister Hills ORV area in northern California. The competitors will advance to the international trials in Seville, Spain, where two will be selected to represent the US in the next Camel Trophy in Kalimantan, Borneo. The finalists are: Jeff Brandner, 31, a landscape architect from Chester, New Jersey. Ken Cameron, 26, a carpenter from Vail, Colorado. Fred Hoess, 29, a mortocycle racer from Stanhope, New Jersey, Greg Oberst, 36, firefighter and paramedic from Seal Beach, California. These four were chosen from the nine participants; there were 400 applications for the US team. Originally, ten were selected to compete, but Mark Ritter (who is on the LRO list) withdrew at the last moment. An airline pilot, he aggravated an old injury whilst rock climbing a week earlier, and after consulting with Tom Collins, the US team coordinator, he withdrew from the competition. (Sorry to hear about that, Mark.) *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From TONY YATES Thu Dec 14 11:48:06 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:48:06 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Canning and fires. Speaking of fires and such - on a recent trip up the Canning by the LROCWA a Nissan Patrol, which was the only petrol powered vehicle in the group, caught fire while driving through seeding spinifex. After the driver was alerted by CB, he found a clear spot and evacuated with his passengers. They managed to save one bag, and despite the application of several small extinguishers the vehicle plus most of their gear was burnt to the ground. Which brings me to the other disadvantage of modern petrol powered vehicles - the catalytic converter. This little firestarter runs considerably hotter than the rest of the exhaust and can very easily start grass fires if you are not very very careful. (Those people gazing out of the window at a snow covered landscape need not be concerned). :-) Tony. From PDoncaster@aol.com Wed Dec 13 22:57:42 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 22:57:42 -0500 From: PDoncaster@aol.com Subject: Problem 12-13-95 Digest I didn't get the entire digest today. Did this happen to anyone elce????? Could somone foreward me a copy?? Thanks in advance Peter Doncaster New Orleans, USA '64 IIA 88 SF SW From rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Wed Dec 13 23:03:18 1995 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:03:18 -0500 From: rthomas@postoffice.ptd.net (Randall Thomas) Subject: Re: Koenig winch parts, Ser II Ron Franklin writes: >Could anyone help me with my rebuild of the Koenig winch on my '59 ser II >pickup ? snip >drum lever ,brake, pin, and some of the small parts are the same as those on >the Koenig L621 PTO winch. I have the original parts and owners manuals for >all of these winches and can supply the parts numbers if that helps. Ah! I too have a Keonig winch which I have yet to mount on my IIA due to lack of a mounting plate and fairleads. It is not the cab control version but would be interested in converting it if possible. I was also missing the drive piece that mounts to the crankshaft in place of the crank handle socket and had been advised that British Northwest Land Rovers in Wash. State had parts. Now, this was a couple years ago when I wasn't as wise as I am now. I called them up and spoke to Charles Kellogg who told me he had one there. I asked him to send it along. Well after a long discussion about LRs I had neglected to ask him the price before hanging up, but I didn't give it much concern at the time since I knew what the piece looked like, it's not much really, just a machined slug with a couple of drive dogs, so I figured it wouldn't be that much. Well a couple weeks later I received the part along with a bill for 275 US dollars in fabrication fees. OUCH! After letters to Kellogg and much fighting with my credit card company, I was not able to get my money back. Hard lesson learned. Anyway, since then I've heard many horror stories regarding this outfit, and in a way, after my experience these are somewhat gratifying to hear. Okay, sorry, I just had to vent that. Back to the winch: I think the casting you're referring to must have been the weak point in this winch as the PO of mine had front ended something and smashed it, so mine has a bracket which someone had quite expertly fabricated from heavy guage steel in place of it. Let me know if you want a picture of it or something. Regarding parts, after my experience with Kellogg, I found out that Charlie Haigh at Rovers North, Vermont is quite knowledgable about these things andFrom Richard Jones Thu Dec 14 9:49:04 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 9:49:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Richard Jones Subject: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions William Owen writes: > considering? Traction control requires ABS to be fitted and has only be available for the past couple of years. > Should I be concerned about the lack of locking center diffs and the > open rear diffs? especially as it relates to snow and mud traction. The earlier Range Rovers you are looking at are likely to be just like the Discovery with a manual locking center diff. The later onles are fitted with a viscouse coupled device. In practice all it means is that the later Range Rovers decide when they want the center diff locked and lock it, instead of waiting to see if the driver remembers before getting stuck :-) > Is there any other advice anyone can give me as I search for my RR? > Things to look for or to avoid. I've heard 89 is better than 87-88. True? Depends what you want. Later vehicle have more goodies, but are not necessarily a better long term prospect than a well cared for earlier (and simpler to maintain) model. That said, I would like Classic Range Rover with ABS, Traction Control and Air Suspension but they weren't available when my Range Rover was built in 1973. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From "Steve Reddock" Thu Dec 14 05:14:30 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 05:14:30 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Winge moan... Hi all, can you please use carriage returns in your submissions. Most day's there is somebody who doesn't and my mail program decides that it isn't a note if it is too wide and handles it differently. It also makes it really hard to print 4 to a page and take home to read, as I often don't get time during the day. Today's worst offender was (sorry to name names, but you are probably unaware of your most heanous crime)... John Lui with 350 characters 70 characters is a good width as it allows a little room for cock ups. The prize for the best effort goes to David Bobeck who appears to be aiming at one word per line :-) No danger of that over spilling the margins. This really only screws up digestives like me as the odd duff short note on the live list probably wouldn't get printed to paper. Can the disester prog edit long lines to split them automatically? Regards, Sgt. A.Retentive LRO submission Police. Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited 14 95 Dec GM 1910 Date: 14 Dec 95 10:42:17 GM From: Tony Kingston/MTi Trading Systems Limited Subject: 1985 - 110 for sale Thanks to Walter Swain for pointing out the missing underscore in my e-mail address, as mentioned to him, it must be the trauma of selling a loved one that has affected my speeling and sintacks. So please note the missing underscore between the Tony and the Kingston. Location North East Hampshire, UK My 1985 110 is sadly up for sale. For the last 18 months we have been using it to transport kids, dogs, and horses to and from schools, walks and shows respectively. Mainly been driven by my wife on a daily basis, apart from a short stint of 50 miles per day when I used it for the daily commute to work. It must now go due the purchase of a small holding and the need for a tractor/jcb type vehicle. Details 2.5L Diesel (N/A) (blows a little oil but recently passed emissions test at MOT) Gearbox fully reconditioned 12k miles ago (18 months) MOT'd until September 1996 Taxed until summer 1996 Avon Rangemasters all round Full length roof rack Capstan Winch (front mounted) Ex British Telecom vehicle (regularly serviced, but no service history) Good chassis (spent most of it's life on the roads) Colour is light Grey (externally oversprayed by BT from the previous yellow colour) This vehicle has never ever let us down. I looking for around UK Pounds 4250 If interested? send mail to Tony_Kingston@MTITS.CO.UK and I'll tell you more about it. Tony From "Steve Reddock" Thu Dec 14 07:40:55 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 07:40:55 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Digest problems /internet /to johnliu@earthlink.net /end Hi John, the last message on the failed digest was from you. Could it have been one of these 500 column wide epics you send? Could this be what is screwing up the digester? Can you try a controlled experiment where you send a short note (ie less than 70 columns wide) to test my theory. I may be mad, but please humour me. Thanks, Sgt. A.Nally-Retentive LRO Submissions Police Steve Reddock Product Evaluation, 26/12 Xyratex Ext.(01705) 486363 x4450 Int.721-4450 REDDOCK at HVTVM Internet: Steve_Reddock@UK.XYRATEX.COM From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Thu Dec 14 12:57:36 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:57:36 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: standards vs. automatics ... ? The now famous Icelandic glacier driving nutters always use autos cos they are better to trickle down the power inn very slippery situations. Conversely the LR 2.25 and 2.5 deiseld are notoriously hard to trickle with due to the governers. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1907 Date: 14 Dec 95 7:57:08 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Carburetor Icing! What to do? All right you bunch of rocket scientists, here's one for you..... Start the car in the morning and get halfway to work and the engine loses power. Went through the entire electrical system on the engine before I looked in the carb and found 90% of the throat occluded with an ice ball. Chipped that out and it runs fine..... What caused it? What DO I DO ABOUT IT? Label me, Pissed off in Boston..... From Ron Franklin Thu Dec 14 08:05:04 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 08:05:04 -0500 From: Ron Franklin Subject: Re: Koenig winch parts -- [ From: Ron Franklin * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- thanks for the reply . I've traveled much the same route you did, but learned early the high asking price of these items in the Pacific Northwest, and decided it would be cheaper to buy one of the supposedly non-existent sub $2500 rovers which seem to get advertised here in Maine frequently. As for the other leads on the present whereabouts of any repair parts through current or past owners of the Koenig company, all are at present dead ends to the detriment of my phone bill. If Charlie is listening, thanks for the lead anyway. Randall, I would like to hear how your repair was done if all else fails, so if I have no luck elsewhere I'll be in touch, and it's kind of you to offer. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1908 Date: 14 Dec 95 8:34:24 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Koenig winch parts Have you guys thought about making up a pattern and just aluminum-casting it? If it's a bit that won't take a lot of stress (lever mount or some such), it's easy enough to do. I do it, melting the aluminum over the same burner I use for homebrewing (200,000 BTU - no waiting!). A few firebricks stacked around it makes a good heatshied, and the aluminum will go pretty quickly. Sounds like a great reuse for all the old Birmabright lying around in your back yard. ... aj"Or weld it up from plate stock"r From Sekerere@aol.com Thu Dec 14 08:42:07 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:42:07 -0500 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest What is Majordomo doing this is a bunch of baloney these truncated digests which we receive with one message out of 20+++ messages. What's going on folks From ey-postmaster@geis.com Thu Dec 14 12:25:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 12:25:00 UTC 0000 From: ey-postmaster@geis.com Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest GE Item Number: 9177705 Original Msg Id: 493362 ey-postmaster response to your message Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest System: C14A# Date: Thu 14-Dec-95 12:25 Status: 7 Message picked up by receiving system and not delivered to any recipients because of various exception conditions. Address Delivered To: KESSELS.BILL@OTT01 Address Status Message: This address does not exist at C14A# From "Gerald" Thu Dec 14 09:02:05 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:02:05 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Cracked outside mirror The drivers outside mirror on my Disco cracked yesterday. What are these mirrors made of? They look to be plastic. I had not adjusted it for a while and I am afraid that adjusting it now will shatter it. I think the cold weather of that past week (down to -15 C) may have done it. Saw 5 Disco's in one day but not in a position to wave at any of them. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Gerald" Thu Dec 14 09:02:05 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:02:05 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Carburetor Icing! What to do? Carb ice - caused by the cooling effect of the changing pressure in the throat - happens a lot on carb equipped airplanes. The answer is to keep the carb warmer. How do you do that? Depends on the engine. Fortunate you saw the ice, when it happened to me the ice melted so quickly there was no physical evidence left. On 14 Dec 95 at 7:57, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: . . . . > Start the car in the morning and get halfway to work and the engine loses > power. Went through the entire electrical system on the engine before I looked > in the carb and found 90% of the throat occluded with an ice ball. Chipped that > out and it runs fine..... -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 08:14:08 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:14:08 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: 2.25 Block cleaning Chris Youngson asks: > - How and with what do I clean the block? Call engine shops until you find one that does hot tanking. That uses lye and will clean everything qiute well. It will strip the piant off. The shop can tell you if you need new bearings and answer your other questions also. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 08:19:42 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:19:42 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: fires. Tony Yates writes: Snip > Which brings me to the other disadvantage of modern petrol powered > vehicles - the catalytic converter. This little firestarter runs > considerably hotter than the rest of the exhaust and can very easily > start grass fires if you are not very very careful. Too true. A couple of years ago outside of Leesburg, VA at a hosre show, about 10-15 (or more maybe) cars were burned to a crisp when the catalytic converter on a car started the grass on fire in the field that was being used for perking. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From russ burns Thu Dec 14 06:20:54 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:20:54 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Wading In RR (was: "Trendy?") I have only had it in mud that deep, and every thing was all right as long as you exited thru the windows, and left the muddy boots on the hood.... Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 At 02:35 PM 12/13/95 -0800, John Y. Liu wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Range Rover in water past the bottom door sills? Does it fill up with water, ruin your CD player, make your plush carpets soggy, and spot your loafers? Or are the doors sealed to hold up against immersion? (Not being sarcastic -- I really want to know since I'm considering a Range Rover purchase.) >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >A post by TerriAnn got me wondering . . . what does happen if you wade a Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 08:30:03 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:30:03 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Koenig winch parts I posted this several months ago, but perhaps those in teh need now didn't then. I called Koenig quite a few years ago looking for parts. I talked to a fellow there who said they had discontinued the mfg. of my model, but had a bunch of parts left over. He also said that they would probably be selling off the parts as a lot to some outfit in Florida that bought parts from discontinued models. I may have scribbled the pertinant names & numbers on an envelope my parts list is in. If so, I still have them and will post. ps. He said, back then, they still had the LR in the back lot that they used for testing. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From russ burns Thu Dec 14 06:36:24 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 06:36:24 -0800 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Carburetor Icing! What to do? I had this problem with an escort I burned up all the vacume hoses in a fire... You need some carb heat. Usally there is a pipe from the exaust manifold to the card. This provides pre heated air in cold damp places. Russ Burns At 07:57 AM 12/14/95 EST, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >All right you bunch of rocket scientists, here's one for you..... [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >power. Went through the entire electrical system on the engine before I looked >in the carb and found 90% of the throat occluded with an ice ball. Chipped that >out and it runs fine..... >What caused it? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >What DO I DO ABOUT IT? > Label me, Pissed off in Boston..... Russ Burns cisco/Ford 313-317-0451 From "Bill Skidmore" 14 1995 Dec -0500 1909 Date: 14 Dec 1995 09:41:08 -0500 From: "Bill Skidmore" Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Yes, John, there is a GOD! My local dealer took everyone out on a familiarization drive in October to = the Pine Barrens of New Jersey (Skill Level 1). At one ppoint they had to = cross a stream, which was unnormally swollen due to heavy October rains. = The dealer and the contractor off-road instruction team staked out the = path that the vehicles were to cross through, but don't you know that a RR = 4.0SE decided to depart that path!!! Water up past the engine hood! = Water came in through the drain holes in the floor, and almost everything = electrical got wet. I was told that the owner was busy laughing and = bailing water as her vehicle was sinking! The Service Manager was telling = me about the concern that the onboard computer (ECU?) would have to be = replaced entirely. I suspect that the CD and many other components also = had to be replaced, but don't know if the delaer bit the bullet and did = the work and parts under warranty. BS ------ From: Owner-LRO@uk.stratus.com, Thu, Dec 14, 1995 ------ From Ray Harder Thu Dec 14 08:36:15 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:36:15 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: Popular Science On Wed, 13 Dec 1995, Christopher Boese wrote: > I should have bought a soft top Defender after all and carried a few towels. 8-) hey, we series LROs with hardtops and no headliners carry towels -- it rains inside when the humidity is high even if it is not raining outside. put on the brakes and you are sure to get a sudden downpour. besides, the towels are excellent for wiping the windshield after the defroster gets through. ccray (siia 88 (lulu)) From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1909 Date: 14 Dec 95 9:52:56 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: 2.25 Block cleaning >Call engine shops until you find one that does hot tanking. That uses >lye and will clean everything qiute well. It will strip the piant >off. The shop can tell you if you need new bearings and answer your >other questions also. If you hot-tank the block, you will need to replace the cam bearings in any case. The lye will eat them up, or so I am told. Personally, If I'm that far into an engine, I'd go for it. The extra few bucks is worth the peace of mind and oil pressure. Alan From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 09:14:10 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:14:10 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: 2.25 Block cleaning > If you hot-tank the block, you will need to replace the cam bearings in any > case. The lye will eat them up, or so I am told. Yep, it will also eat aluminum and lead. > Personally, If I'm that far into an engine, I'd go for it. The extra few bucks > is worth the peace of mind and oil pressure. I agree. If your cam journals need grinding you can get oversize cam bearings. If not from a LR parts house, then the shop can modify generic ones to fit. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 14 95 Dec EST 1910 Date: 14 Dec 95 10:14:41 EST From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Popular Science >hey, we series LROs with hardtops and no headliners carry towels -- >it rains inside when the humidity is high even if it is not raining >outside. put on the brakes and you are sure to get a sudden >downpour. besides, the towels are excellent for wiping the >windshield after the defroster gets through. Easy fix! Get some felt carpet underlayment for auto use. It comes in various weights, but I used the heaviest (28 ounce). Mount this to the inside of the top, and it makes it warmer, quieter and eliminates the rain problem as the water doesn't condense on the felt. Cheap, too. the local supplier I buy it from gets me for about $4 a yard for 36-inch-wide material. Re: Wiping the windshield: Not with my Kodiak.....8*) I can get the cab to 90 with no effort... Drool on, envious rabble....8*) -Alan From MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Thu Dec 14 7:50:29 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 7:50:29 -0500 (EST) From: MDAY@NARVAX.NAR.EPA.GOV Subject: RE:Hydraulic winches On 11 Dec 95, Mark Ritter asked about the phone number for the Mile Marker brand of hydraulic winches... Their number is 1-800-426-8646... I haven't tried this unit, but it seems like a good idea. let me know what you find out. HTH. M.Day mday@narvax.nar.epa.gov From William Owen Thu Dec 14 09:48:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:48:00 -0600 From: William Owen Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions Thanks for all your quick and helpful responses concerning the RR's center diff., etc. If only the dealer knew as much. I gather that the late 80's (87up) models have the Viscous Coupling with no manual locking. I would have thought that manual locking would be slightly superior, traction wise, to a VCU. Why else would they put it in the D90 and disco. Do the d90 and disco use a VCU when the diff is not locked? Anyway the impression I'm getting is that I should not worry about lack of locking center diff or open rear diff. If I get real serious I can always get Air Lockers on the rear. I also gather that to get the larger engine I need an 89 or newer. How important Is the power and/or reliability difference. Finally, I need a 91 or newer to get ABS and even newer to get electronic traction control. Looks like an 89 would be ideal, giving me the larger engine and a VCU at a reasonable price. Time to go look through the ads again. Thanks again for all your advice, and for any more that you may send. I'll let you know how my search goes and, hopefully, how the RR compares to the Jeep on the trail. Not that I don't already know the answer. :) From "John C. White, III" Thu Dec 14 08:19:03 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 08:19:03 -0800 From: "John C. White, III" Subject: Re: 96 shop manuals I bought the '95 shop manual and binder a couple of weeks ago. The pages of the manual are shrink-wrapped. There was a second set of shrink-wrapped pages included that contained a September '95 update. This second set had the '96 stuff. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California At 16:19 13.12.95 -0500, Gerald wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Anyone have a source for 96 shop manuals for Discos? Metro West says [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >Gerald >g@ix.netcom.com From PZavaletta@aol.com Thu Dec 14 11:58:24 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:58:24 -0500 From: PZavaletta@aol.com Subject: No More Squeaky Steering Wheel! To Those Disco and Rangie Owners With the Squeaky Steering Wheel: About two weeks ago I posted to the list the fact that my '95 RR County Classic had the squeaky steering wheel, and that my dealer had the part fix on back-order, asking if anyone knew of a lubricating fix to the problem. In response I received the following: "OK. This one's easy, I fixed it myself and so can you. The problem is a rubber to metal contact between the steering column and a rubber collar that fits around the column at the firewall. The short term fix (but not too short based on my experience) is to grease this contact point; the long term fix per a service bulletin is to replace this collar with a nylon version that doesn't make noise in cold weather. High tech, huh? If you have a cartridge style grease gun, some lithium grease, and an old paint brush you're set. If you don't, run out to TrakAuto or whatever you have nearby and spend a few bucks. The gun and a grease cartridge should be <$20; you really ought to have one anyway with your off-roading and the potential for a Hummer in the driveway. I used marine grade lithium because I already had it for our sailboat, so it shouldn't mind getting wet. Anyway, pop the hood and look for the place where the steering column penetrates the firewall. You'll see a black rubber collar and then a recessed area all around the column itself. Insert the tip of the grease gun into this recessed area on one side of the column and pump the gun once; repeat the process on the other side of the column. Use the old paintbrush (I had an old one about 1" wide that I'm keeping in a Ziploc bag for future 'repairs') and use the bristles to work the grease all around the recessed area, i.e. on all sides of the column, being sure to force it as far as possible into the contact area. Voila. No more squeaks, and you'll be amazed how much smoother the steering feels! If you just have some lithium grease and a paint brush you may be able to get by with simply applying the grease with the brush, but I think that the grease gun really helped to get the grease where it was needed most." I did this and I am happy to say that seven days later, including two in sub-freezing temperatures, the fix works like a charm. Thanks to the individuals that posted and emailed this fix to me. Anyone with this problem in either their disco or rangie ought to do this right away. Thanks again, Peter M. Zavaletta 1995 Alpine White Range Rover County Classic (aka 'Winston, 12,700 miles) P.S. In case anyone is considering a Classic, I highly recommend it - this is the only 'problem' I have had and the car seems very well built, heavy and solid. I HIGHLY recommend it, but buy now because 1995 is the last year. From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Thu Dec 14 12:08:40 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 12:08:40 EST From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: misc. ramblings Hi all: 1. I was thinking of building a spare v8 with stroked crank (using Buick 300 crank) It could be done with all-US parts for about US$1500 for a complete short block. Since most of this cost is machine work, if we build 2, I suspect we can reduce the costs. Anyone? anyone? Bueler? (PS thanks to the OZ and the UK contingent for the v8 info) 2. Don't the 3.5 and the 3.9 differ only in bores? Same crank? I always thought so, but the people who "prepared" my Landie just told me that the crank strokes are diff. I _hope_ they're right, or I'll have to go through the brakes etc. that these "experts" touched :) Actually, thinking back, these guys are jokers, as one told me that the center diff only needs to be locked if you're _really_ stuck. Yikes, better take a close look at all vital systems on the Landie. 3. (really misc.) Isn't it funny that 2 out of 4 CT US team finalists are from NJ- probably the most paved state in the US? Jan (in NJ) From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 14 12:43:13 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 12:43:13 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re[2]: fires. Too true. A couple of years ago outside of Leesburg, VA at a hosre show, about 10-15 (or more maybe) cars were burned to a crisp when the catalytic converter on a car started the grass on fire in the field that was being used for perking. Mmm... catalytic converter coffee. Starbucks new flavor... Rover Roast! Dave B. From Robert Kolander Thu Dec 14 12:09:05 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 12:09:05 -0600 From: Robert Kolander Subject: WANTED: Defender 90 I'm looking for a used (prefer 95) Defender 90. The fewer options the better. My price range is the low to mid $20's (dep. on miles, cond, and experiences...) and I'm willing to "buy long distance" as the saying goes, but only within the continental region (Canada incl). I'm currently in Minnesota, and haven't been able to track one down anywhere. Maybe Defender owners here just don't want to sell ;-) please contact me if you know of a LR that fits my description... thanks - Bob K. kolan001@maroon.tc.umn.edu http://www.umn.edu/nlhome/m210/kolan001/ From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Thu Dec 14 13:28:10 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:28:10 -0500 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Secret Agent >he was found out he hopped into a 107 pickup, which in the next cut was a >SII 88 hardtop ( can't beat that continuity). The bad guys then chased him Read the closing credits closely next time. I'll bet you'll find the person in charge of "Continuity" was named Lucas... RoverOn! JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life, I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From "Bobeck, David R." Thu Dec 14 13:27:33 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 13:27:33 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Re: Winge moan... The prize for the best effort goes to David Bobeck who appears to be aiming at one word per line :-) No danger of that over spilling the margins. Wow. You mean I win something ? Dave "default margin syndrome" Bobeck From benedick@emh1.pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Thu Dec 14 13:43:41 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:43:41 -0500 From: benedick@emh1.pa.net (Darwyn/Kris Benedict) Subject: Re: No More Squeaky Steering Wheel! Peter Wrote: >About two weeks ago I posted to the list the fact that my '95 RR County >Classic had the squeaky steering wheel, >I did this and I am happy to say that seven days later, including two in >sub-freezing temperatures, the fix works like a charm. >Thanks to the individuals that posted and emailed this fix to me. I must give credit where credit is due: This info. can from Stuart Williams. He sent it to me and I only passed it on. (You can send him the $10 as the "copyright" fee) From John Antram Thu Dec 14 13:39:35 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:39:35 -0500 (EST) From: John Antram Subject: Discovery Tires/Tyres Hello everyone; I'm having quite a hard time with finding Snow tires for my '95 Discovery. I've been told by LRNA ( customer service line ) that the standard equipment tires are great in the snow; I'd rate them well, but they are not quite enough for Vermont mt. passes everyday. With the cost of chains being around $500/axle, I was wondering if anyone had put 225/75 R16's on instead of the standard 235/70 R16's. The main reason is that there are good snow tires made in 225/75 but hardly anyone even makes all-seasons in 235/70. The dealer says the 225's will be fine and LRNA says they'll be asking for an accident... who's right? John Antram rewt@sover.net RR 3 Box 888 Middlebury, Vt 05753 1972 Land Rover Series III 88" red, sunroofs 1995 Land Rover Discovery 5-speed, sunroofs, Roman Bronze 1987 Mercedes Benz 300 SDL Anthracite Gray From RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Thu Dec 14 09:04:13 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 09:04:13 -0500 From: RICHARD_COLEMAN@fmso.navy.mil (RICHARD COLEMAN) Subject: "The Money Pit" Roverphiles, Some of you (Chris Browne) have asked to hear the story of "The Money Pit" and some of you are contemplating buying a Range Rover. Here's the story and I'll try to keep it brief. 11/94 purchased 90 RR from a hi-line (BMW, MB, RR) used car dealer, 59K miles and in pretty good condition-- dealer fixed a lot of little things under a 100% 30 day warranty. 3/95 replaced complete exhaust from the cat. conv. back 5/95 replace cat. conv. Y pipe and O2 sensors and exhaust manifold gasket 8/95 replace 1 bad ABS sensor and alternator----- also replaced cat. conv. Y pipe and O2 sensors again because the first replacement was a poorly manf. one===Atlantic British replaced the cat. free but I still had to pay for labor again 10/95 replaced headliner which was separating from the foam backing 11/95 replaced water pump 12/95 and wouldn't you know it --- 2 days ago the ABS light comes on again. There you have it -----13 months, all those problems and a couple grand in parts and labor----bbbuuuutttttt----- I still really like this vehicle. If you really want a RR then go for it. Don't let these problems scare you off. There are other people on this list who have had minimal problems with the same model and year. I do have some questions some of you may be able to answer: 1. Does anyone know where to get a water pump rebuilt? Is it worth the price of repair? 2. How do I tell which ABS sensor is faulty? Can I replace it myself? 3. Can I reset the ABS light and if so how? I also still have the corrosion warranty thing I'm working on and thanks to you who responded on that subject. Thanks for listening. I'm thinking of borrowing a name for this vehicle from the BMW list. And that name would be=== BOHICA===. Cheers, Rick 90 RR(The Money Pit) 88 735i 5sp From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 13:24:09 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:24:09 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Re[2]: fires. > Mmm... catalytic converter coffee. Starbucks new flavor... > Rover Roast! Fortunately, even though it was a horse in Leesburg, no Rover products were burned. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From KKelly6788@aol.com Thu Dec 14 14:25:23 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 14:25:23 -0500 From: KKelly6788@aol.com Subject: New Range Rover >Ever look at the new Range Rover?? Those cars were never meant for off road >driving This weekend at the U.S. Camel Trophy trials I had the opportunity to drive an new 4.0 SE. I also went for rides in a 4.0 SE driven by LRNA Driving Instructor Bob Burns, and a 4.6 HSE driven by LRNA VP Bill Baker. Both vehicles had no problem with the fairly technical trails at the Hollister Hills Off Road Vehicle Area. The HSE with its 18" wheels and street tires did have some problem on the muddy sections. The vehicles are not set up for rock crawling or travel through jungles, but they will do a lot more than take people to ski lodges in style, and what is wrong with showing up at a ski lodge in style? I was told not to quote him, but an employee of LRNA told me that there is an excellent chance that we will get another NAS 90. When I asked about a NAS 110 he responded "no comment" Kevin Kelly From vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Thu Dec 14 11:27:04 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 11:27:04 -0800 From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Subject: D90 Bonnet Doesn't Pop Open The '94 D90 (Slo-Mo VI) has the spare mounted on the bonnet which is great but when the release handle is pulled the bonnet doesn't pop up enough to get at the second release. One person has to hold the handle out while the other pries the bonnet up to get at the second release. (It is a steel wheel with a mudder mounted.) We would like to install a stronger spring which would pop the bonnet up a bit when the handle is pulled. LRNA tells me there isn't a stronger spring available any where in the world. I have seen 110s with bonnet mounted spares where the bonnet pops up when the release is pulled. Anyone with ideas, previous experience on installing a stronger spring or other fix? Help! What do you do in the UK, SA and OZ? Appreciate any help. Ted Van Decar Warm regards, Ted From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 14 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 14 Dec 95 14:25:09 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Safari Gard Several people have written me asking me if I have recieved the Rock Sliders I ordered about 31/2 weeks ago and if so how I liked them. I am still waiting for them to show up, even though my credit card was charged early this week. I talked with Greg at SG and he indicated that they would not be shipped out this week either. If they are indeed shipped next week it will probobly be the week after before I recieve them for a total delivery time of at least 5 weeks. >From the brouchure I recieved they look good so I am still cautiously optimistic though if you are in a hurry it might be better to find another source. Mark Ritter 94 Disco w/ Steel wheels, mud tires, rear locker and MAYBE Rock Sliders. From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 14 95 Dec EST 1914 Date: 14 Dec 95 14:25:11 EST From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Winches Well it has come time to fit a winch tothe front of my Disco and I asm looking for some advice. I can get a Superwinch S-9000 for $499 complete with fairlead. I am looking for ways to mount it on the Disco. I do know that I don't want he factory winchmount (way too much $ and UGLY) and I also don't like those reciever type mounts as I want it fixed to the vehicle. Anybody have any experience doing a hidden mount on a Disco? If you have a winch on your Disco write me and tell me how you did it. Mark Ritter 94 Disco w/ Steel wheels, mud tires, rear locker and MAYBE Rock Sliders. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 13:48:37 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:48:37 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Discovery Tires/Tyres John Antram writes: > Hello everyone; I'm having quite a hard time with finding Snow > tires for my '95 Discovery. I've been told by LRNA ( customer service Snip John, Don't know if they come in the right size but this is what I found for snows. For years (the last 20?) I've used Sears Roadhandler Ice & Snow tires on my various cars and really liked them alot. They performed well in VA, OK, SC, VT and WI winters. This year I bought a set of four Bridgestnoe Blizzak for our Nova. They work great in snow AND ICE. Because of the tread design though, you will only want to run them in the winter and have another set for the rest of the year. Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From "Tom Rowe" Thu Dec 14 13:51:33 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 13:51:33 GMT -0600 From: "Tom Rowe" Subject: Re: Re[2]: fires. ooops > Fortunately, even though it >was a horse in Leesburg, no Rover products were burned. ^ show Tom Rowe UW-Madison Center for Dairy Research 608-265-6194, Fax:608-262-1578 trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck in places even more inaccessible. From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 15 08:11:00 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 08:11:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: Re: Canning and Rangies. Daryl I have most back issues of Overlander for the last 10 years or so... if you know which year/ month I might be able to find it!!! I think there was one on a Mal Douglas doc'o some years ago as well... or was it Alby Mangels (!!!) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Barclay Sydney Australia '90 5sp RR '51 Series 1 (Louie) ---------- From Wdcockey@aol.com Thu Dec 14 16:17:06 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:17:06 -0500 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Range Rover open Diff, TC, and buying used questions The viscous coupling transfer case is made by Borg Warner and was developed especially for the RR. It is almost certainly more expensive than the in-house transfer case with the locking center diff (simple dog clutch vs. vc) used in Def's & Disco's. David Cockey From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Thu Dec 14 18:00:02 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 18:00:02 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: External Sun Visors I've got some good news and some bad news.... The good news is that the external sun visors are ready. (I said the guy was good, but didn't think he was *that* good.) A month ahead of when promised. :-) The bad news is that the length of these makes them "oversize" for UPS and the post office. That means that shipping will cost the same as a 30# package, even though they weigh <5#. :-( Sooo, you folks who have ordered them, send me your zip code, and I'll be able to figure the shipping costs tomorrow. Cheers *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Kevan Shaw Thu Dec 14 23:42:30 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:42:30 +0000 From: Kevan Shaw Subject: Tyres Well here I am having woken up this morning to a flat on the Landie followed by a flat spare. This is the fifth and sixth flats I have had this year! Several calls later one of the local tyre specialists says he has three tubes except there is only one when I get there. It seems my tubes are well past their sell by dates and spontaneously go into holes. Why are these tubes so difficult to get and why are they so expensive? currently =A314.50 each. Does anyone know ofsuitable cheap tubeless rims to fit landies? While I am reviewing the tyre situation has anyone tried the new radial MudPlugga remoulds? I am using 205R16 Michelin pattern M+S remoulds at present which are great on the road but useless on mud, also the prospect of another inch or two ground clearance might save by sills getting so battered and raise the gearing, however I would like to know what they are like on the road. When I got my Landie it was fitted with 600X16 shagged crossplies on the front and 600X16 SAT pattern Olympics on the back which were new and good, the thing wandered all over the road and rode very rough hence the rapid change to radials, by the way I still have the Olympic covers if anyone is interested. The rest of the beast is a series 3 88" diesel. Kevan Shaw ****************Ars Longa Vita Brevis *************** ********************Tempus Fugit******************** ********************Festina Lente******************** From vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Thu Dec 14 16:26:23 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:26:23 -0800 From: vandecar@nwlink.com (Ted VanDecar) Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? In Wednesday's Digest, Mike Fredette asked for information regarding the D90 "Plastic" Top. Other persons, myself included, could also use the information. If any one responding respond could post it to the Digest, it would appreciated. Ted Van Decar '94 D90 Slo-Mo VI From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Dec 14 16:59:16 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:59:16 -0800 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Disco and Lucas Since I bought my 95 Discovery, the radio has always made a buzzing sound immediately after it was turned on and before the music would come out. Just recently, I've notice that it no longer does that. I suppose that's good, but I can't help but wonder what's happened or changed. Things that make you go, "Hmmmm." _____ /|__|_\__(| Bob Watson | | | \ a-robw@microsoft.com |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA, USA | _|= |= |o_ }\ [|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ N7UMU From "John Y. Liu" Thu Dec 14 16:55:40 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:55:40 -0800 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: TEST -- Message W/ Carriage Returns OK, I'll post a message using carriage returns. This is it. But I'm on some other mailing lists using majordomo (e.g. the WinVn list and the mercedes list) that haven't had any problems. Although come to think of it I don't usually have much to say about WinVn -- but I do about Mercedes. Let's see if this makes a difference. And then let me know if I should try sending a message NOT using carriage returns, to see if it really makes a difference. Incidentally, I've been also noticing a lot of "repeated" messages. I'm on the real-time list. Do you all think majordomo is sending messages twice? From Bob Jeffries <74223.3326@compuserve.com> 14 95 Dec EST 1920 Date: 14 Dec 95 20:04:11 EST From: Bob Jeffries <74223.3326@compuserve.com> Subject: How To Fix Squeaky Steering Wheel? ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- From "Mugele, Gerry" Thu Dec 14 14:39:00 1995 Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 14:39:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Movie Sighting Okay so I was wasting time... It was a 1970 Sci-Fi, very much grade B (maybe a grade C) thing called "Death Ray 2000" but it also is listed with an alternate title "T.R. Bascomb" - about a secret agent that tries to save the world from the bad guys stolen dehydrating death ray. At the conclusion of the film they are in the Swiss Alps. Our hero (and his co- agent played by Ann Turkel) jump into a 109 IIa SW ( with one jerry can stupidly lashed to the side and another on the rear). Quite a bit of action with the 109. Best scene was the one where the rig is reversed at speed (on snow and ice) and then thrown into 1st while still moving backwards fast and given much forward power putting it into a 'power slide'. heh heh heh. yeah right. If the engine on the sound track was from the actual 109 then it must have been the 6-cyl; it definitely did not sound like a 4. Now don't you waste YOUR time watching this drivel. Gerry Mugele 72 88 *** Remember you are unique, just like everyone else. From Simon Barclay Fri Dec 15 15:03:00 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 15:03:00 EST From: Simon Barclay Subject: RE: TEST -- Message W/ Carriage Returns Yes there certainly have been a lot of duplicated msg's lately... ---------- From Donald Abbot Fri Dec 15 09:44:18 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:44:18 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Donald Abbot Subject: Re: D90 Bonnet Doesn't Pop Open On Thu, 14 Dec 1995, Ted VanDecar wrote saying that he has problems with his bonnet release. On both my Series IIA and III I have replaced the bonnet release mechanism with those rally-style T-shaped hooks. No problem. Before doing the Series II, I had the rather unpleasant experience of the bonnet flying up while driving. Obviously this can only happen when the spare is not on the bonnet. As Murphy would have it, it was a dark, misty, wet night and we were travelling flat-out down a long hill. Ever see two people steer a Landie at the same time? Donald From Danny Phillips Fri Dec 15 9:57:59 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 9:57:59 GMT From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest > -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- > In the Jan '96 issue of Popular Science there is a brief write up on the new [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > thus follows the trend away from all-out ruggedness in high-priced SUV's" > Don't let LR know they aren't trendy! what you mean they have been, oh no i have become a fashion victim, run away :-) happy xmas danny From "Steve Reddock" Fri Dec 15 05:26:58 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 05:26:58 EST From: "Steve Reddock" Subject: Re: Winge moan... *** Resending note of 14/12/95 18:33 > Wow. > You [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > margin > syndrome" > Bobeck OK, next time you come to Fareham I'll buy you a pint. Are you here often?? No? Shame :-) Regards, Det. Sgt. Flying Fox of the Yard (standing in for A.Nally-Retentive) That should keep the Python fans happy for a while! From Gary Mitchelson Fri Dec 15 07:46:23 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 07:46:23 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: Re: Movie Sighting -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Caught the end of Mission Impossible yesterday on FX and in this episode Jim was driving a blue series LR. -- Gary Mitchelson N3JPU garym@racalrecord.com Racal Recorders, Inc. From gthrall@ix.netcom.com (Glenn Wm. Thrall ) Fri Dec 15 04:58:03 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 04:58:03 -0800 From: gthrall@ix.netcom.com (Glenn Wm. Thrall ) Subject: 1987 (and up) Range Rovers December 14, 1995 Ben suggested I ask you about Range Rovers. I wrote the following to Ban a short while ago. Any insight you can give would be much appreciated! Glenn Glenn Thrall gthrall@ix.netcom.com ------------------------ I've been leaving business cards here and there, watching the advertisements, talking to Steve and others at BritPac with the clear understanding that I am a newbie at Land Rovers. It is possible an '87 Land Rover may be on the market (unfortunately through a local California (USA) car dealer) in the next few days. If the price is right, and the vehicle is "correct" I'd like to buy the machine. I have read in the UK and Mendo_Recce digests that the '87 is a robust Range Rover. What should I look for? What are the *very* approximate values? I'll also call AAA and my bank and ask for high and low blue book. I honest ly detest dealing with automobile dealers, although all of us must make a living. What is a ballpark price range for a clean, or not so clean, '87? I've noticed ASKING prices in the British Pacific Monthly Flyer in the $17K range for later models. I understand they sell for less. Any counsel would be greatly appreciated. I live in the Pasadena (actually City of San Gabriel, south of Pasadena), California, area. ANY owner of a Series vehicle or RR knows a whole lot more about the nature of the beast and what to look for than I do. YOU may think you don't have the experience ... but if the members of this list do not have some knowledge - who does? You have my sincere appreciation for anything you can contribute! Glenn Glenn Thrall gthrall@ix.netcom.com ---------------------------------------------------- From "Gerald" Fri Dec 15 08:08:09 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:08:09 -0500 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Disco and Lucas I wonder if this is related to the several second delay in 96 Disco radios before any sound comes on. Someone guessed this was to allow time for the aerial to rise, but the NAS cars don't offer the electric aerial which you can get in the U.K. On 14 Dec 95 at 16:59, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: > Since I bought my 95 Discovery, the radio has always made a buzzing sound > immediately after it was turned on and before the music would come out. Just > recently, I've notice that it no longer does that. I suppose that's good, > but I can't help but wonder what's happened or changed. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "barnett childress" Fri Dec 15 8:37:54 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 8:37:54 EST From: "barnett childress" Subject: re:D90, 15K mile update Hi all, Some fellow LRO's have asked about problems if any, with the Defenders. My 95 D90 just turned 15K miles and went in for service 12/13/95. I was told at the dealer this costs $250. All are MINOR items under warranty so far: 1) - Left turn signal flashing @ twice normal speed. Cleaned/adj. connectors, & replaced bulbs. 2) - Cracking noise heard when returning steering wheel to center from full lock. Adj. wheel stop. 3) - Door check brackets rubbed a small whole in trim edge. Replace trim & adj. bracket. 4) - Rubber molding on safari cage cracked. Replaced cage. 5) - SMALL, & I mean small tear on the edge of the canvas top from back door. Adj. & tire carrier, & replaced the whole top! 6) - Passenger seat rattles. Replaced defective seat frame. 7) - Slight vibration in steering wheel @ 55-60 MPH. re-balanced tires. 8) - Small oil leak @ radiator coupling. I tightened coupling. 9) - Small antifreeze leak @ radiator hose. I tightened hose clamp. 10) - Getting water in cargo area. Water is coming in from the front inside corners of the wheel boxes, only while driving. Re-sealed between floor panels. 11) - Chattering when slowing to a stop. I adj. transmission brake. As you can see all of these were minor problems. I do a lot of off-roading & I expect to tighten a few things from time to time. O.K. now for the bad stuff!! The one major mechanical problem I've had so far has been the rear diff. I had Air Lockers & OME HD suspension installed at Rovers North, 11/3. I Noticed a grinding noise on the way home only when slowing down from 60MPH to exit the highway. That's why we didn't hear it during our test drive. RN swapped the ARB for another one, 11/10 but the noise persisted. RN installed another diff for me so I could get home, it's a 4.5 hour trip! RN found that my pinion height was too high on my original diff. Pinion is not touched with the ARB installation. Only backlash between ring & pinion needs to be set. No one really knows why I didn't have a problem before the ARB? RN rebuilt my original diff & came down to my house to do the swap, & all seemed fine, 11/17. I noticed a small leak coming from the pinion seal and replaced the seal 12/1. 12/12 I heard a MAJOR squealing noise from the rear diff as I started home from work. My 15K mile service at the dealer was scheduled for 12/13 anyhow, so I went straight there. My D90 has been there ever sence. It took the dealer a day to do the 15K service, & another day to do the warranty work. They pulled out my diff and sent it to RN. RN sent another diff down here so the dealer to get me back on the road. RN has installed many ARB's and never had this problem! My front locker has been perfect from day one! RN won't know what's going on until they can get a look at the evil, devil diff! Meanwhile I am stuck in driver hell with a crapy Toyota Corolla rental! That was really fun to drive home in during yesterdays 8" snowstorm! NOT! I couldn't even get up my driveway! O.K. I'm done. I guess I was reaching out for a little sympathy, or even better, anyone think they might be able to shed a light on what's wrong? Barnett, Getting upset, cranky & missing my rover! Childress From "Bobeck, David R." Fri Dec 15 09:01:57 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 09:01:57 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Burlieth Land-Rover Club Well it seems we're on the verge of having a small club here. Burlieth, a small neighborhood outside of Georgetown in Washington DC, bears the distinction of being home to many Land-Rovers, of the Series variety as well as the all too common Rangies and Disco's. Well upon inspection of a Pastel Green SIII up the street, I noticed a can of DOT 3 brake fluid on the dashboard. I acted quckly in this emergency situation and left a long note detailing the downfalls of this "brake poison" and the fact that we are currently (read: still) rebuilding Will's hydraulics for the same reason. So I got a call from this chap, and we got together for a few test drives, followed by a few Black and Tans. We made a tour of all the other neighborhood Rovers, which include a SII(a)? 109 SW, a 109 Military (hasn't moved in at least a year) and another Pastel Green SIII 88. That makes a total of six Series vehicles in about a one mile radius. I've envisioned leaving some sort of note for the other folks, perhaps we can organize a parade or something, or large purchases of parts, or other things that a club might do. Or we can have a yearly "Birthday Party" wherein we test the viscosity of several different local blends and go tromping about the alleys and lawns of Georgetown. I believe our newest member is lurking about somewhere... Steve Reddock you are cordially invited to our first meeting, I'll take up your offer at one of our lacal establishments. Dave From LTC Larry Smith Fri Dec 15 8:57:31 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 8:57:31 EST (1357Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Majorette Range Rover Robin, Took the heir apparant to We B Toys last night for some ideas for Santa. While on a recon for him (yeah right ) I found a Majorette set. It has a five door Range Rover (front two operational) with a caravan. 1/36 scale. Operational suspension. Made in France. Price was $8.00USD. Sorry - they only had one, but will strafe the other local stores over the weekend if you are interested. Take care, Larry From Jonathan Hatch Fri Dec 15 09:36:07 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:36:07 -0500 From: Jonathan Hatch Subject: Disco and Lucas Regarding the radio buzzing just after turning it on in Disco's, I have noticed the same thing in my '95 Disco. It buzzes if you turn the radio on after turning the motor on, but if you simply leave the radio on after you turn the motor off, then the next time you start it up, the radio comes on without buzzing first. I'm not sure this is a solution, but it ends the buzzing. (Knowing the Lucas reputation for quality, I have tested this with all phases of the moon and it is consistent.) Jonathan Hatch pyramid@esslink.com Jonathan Hatch 860 379 6626 From Jonathan Hatch Fri Dec 15 09:37:21 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:37:21 -0500 From: Jonathan Hatch Subject: Floor Mats I would appreciate recommendations for U.S. sources of rubber/winter floor mats (front and rear) and rear cargo mats for a '95 Disco. Thanks. Jonathan Hatch pyramid@esslink.com From Mike Fredette~ Fri Dec 15 08:39:27 1995 Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:39:27 +22305823 (MST) From: Mike Fredette~ Subject: Re: NAS D90 "Plastic" Top - Additional Parts? (fwd) I didn't ask for info, I was volunteering it to Jeremy, but here's a repost in case you missed it. > I'm planning on getting one of the dealer plastic hardtops for the D90 > in a few months. I was hoping someone with a '94 D90 can tell me what [ truncated by lro-lite (was 8 lines)] > door lock or handle change or something like that? > Jeremy The changes needed have nothing to do with the rear door per say. The 95 models have a lockable (with a key) rear door but the 94's do not. So you need to replace the rear latch assy with a new keyed one or face the prospect of clibming over the seats each time you want lock or unlock the rear. The more serious aspect is that they changed the angle of the dangle, as it were, of the rear roll cage support on the 95's. It attaches to the bed rail a bit (2 in) farther back than the 94. This means you get to cut/hack a new notch in the new hardtop since the notch already there is in the wrong locale. Also, the 95s have the rivnuts for attaching the top already installed in the bed rails while the 94's don't, this means drilling a dozen or so 8mm holes and installing said rivnuts. There is a retro fit kit that contains the rivnuts, and a cute little piece o plastic to cover up the unsightly notch lef