From "James" Sat Sep 30 15:04:56 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:04:56 GMT0BST From: "James" Subject: MAX REVS? With regard to the recent discussions on the subject... I have a 1960 series II 2.25 petrol (standard no mods.) Original box Standard diffs, 205/16 wheels Fairey OD. I have managed speeds in excess of 85mph out of this machine and I was wondering if it was possible to calculate the engine RPM from the various gear ratios. I suspect that it may be slightly above the ROVER recommendation for the "red-line" but I was curious to know if anyone had the figures to work it out. If you have any ideas and time to waste on maths.... I would be curious to know, Thanks, James. From (Tom Rowe) Sat Sep 30 09:46:06 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 09:46:06 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: weber On Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:10:33 -0400 (EDT) Stuart Moore wrote: >Hello all: > A friend has a weber carb. conversion on his series III and >is having problems with hesitation and general rotten running. >Does anyone out there have a book on the carb. Snip Which model is it? Haynes has a manual on the Webers, including the 2bbl used in LR conversions. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) 30 1995 Sep GMT 1915 Date: 30 Sep 1995 15:33:48 GMT From: Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) Subject: Re: engine timming The reason John Muir, The Idiot Book author, made a distinction between air- and water-cooled regarding timing is as follows. Strobe timing requires the engine be run up while standing still. The danger for air-cooled is that the engine will get little or no cooling during the process and the timing will tend to be off due to the heat build-up during the process. Water cooled have no such problems. There is no real reason that water-cooled can not be correctly timed using the static timing method. Normally strobe timing is considered more accurate. Knowing how to do both would be good info. Using strobe while at home and use static timing for repairs in the field are required. I have used both with good results. There are 12v strobe lights but they require that Joe Lucas is behaving nicely. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies -- ......................................................................... WestNet, the Information Service for People with a Passion for this Place Modem: 406-442-3697 (28,800/8-N-1) Info via Internet: westnet@desktop.org Sponsored by Desktop Assistance, Inc. Info via Internet: info@desktop.org ......................................................................... From Andrew Grafton Sat Sep 30 16:07:08 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 16:07:08 BST From: Andrew Grafton Subject: Re : Max RPM ? > With regard to the recent discussions on the subject... > I have a 1960 series II (specs snipped) Is this a 109" or an 88"? > I have managed speeds in excess of 85mph out of this machine and I > was wondering if it was possible to calculate the engine RPM from the > various gear ratios. Crikey! Double my usual cruising speed! That is possible without going over the red line. Assuming; That you were going down a 1:10 with a following tornado in the wake of a supremely large juggernaut. If the 85 is actual (road speed) on a 109 with 205's on, you'd be able to do it (just) in 4th OD because the decrease in ratio of the wheels would be cancelled out by the increase in the OD. (picture of car going slowly and small wheels whizzing round like mad) An 88" shouldn't have much trouble, revwise, with an OD and discounting air resistance. Below is my 'on the dash' rev chart for our 109" SIII, Standard 'boxes with 7.50X16 tyres. The radials we have on now make the speed for a given rpm slightly higher as they are about 1" overall bigger than the crossplies. bear in mind that if you have 205's on a 109" then your actual speed will be nothing like the indicated speed? Speed 1st 2nd 3rd 4th Rev 5 952 649 438 318 809 10 1903 1298 875 635 1617 15 2855 1947 1313 953 2426 20 3806 2596 1750 1270 3234 25 4758 3245 2188 1588 4043 30 5709 3894 2625 1905 4851 35 6661 4543 3063 2223 5660 40 7612 5192 3500 2540 6468 45 8564 5841 3938 2858 7277 50 9515 6490 4375 3175 8085 55 10467 7139 4813 3493 8894 60 11418 7788 5250 3810 9702 65 12370 8437 5688 4128 10511 70 13321 9086 6125 4445 11319 75 14273 9735 6563 4763 12128 80 15224 10384 7000 5080 12936 At 85 in 4th we'd be doing about 5800 rpm, and with an overdrive that would be well within the scope of a petrol engine. Not that we do more than 3000 on a regular basis in our diesels!!! I think that when you take into account the changes in tyre size and diff ratio between an 109" and an 88" they cancel out, so the above chart may apply? Please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong! For tyre sizes different to those specified in the manual, the figures above will change. For example, a set of 205R16s is different to a set of 6.50X16s. I can't find out the exact Fairey Overdrive ratio. If anyone knows, please tell me! All the best, Andy A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk Sorry about the confused nature of this post - I am immersed trying to design airbag systems which are *somewhat* different! From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 30 95 Sep EDT 1911 Date: 30 Sep 95 11:26:24 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RR mass flow sensor > I have a question related to the fuel/air topic. My "flap type" mass flow > sensor has a fair amount of rust-colored grunge in the plenum, on the intake > side of the flap. Since the shop manual has a procedure for cleaning the Methinks what you're looking at is the throttle butterfly and not the air flow sensor. The air flow sensor proper, containing the infamous spring-loaded flap, is the little 'box' with the black plastic top sitting between the air filter and the plenum chamber inlet, with two flex hoses on either side, and a big fat multi-plug connected to it. The grunge on and around the plenum inlet is mainly baked/cruded oil fumes coming from the crankcase breather which enters the plenum just before the throttle disc. The hot crankcase fumes meet with cool outside air, condensate on the disc and inside the plenum, and the result is this unseemly grunge. Diesel is actually good stuff to wash this mess off, brake cleaner will also do. In reiteration of previous caveats, I'd advise not to use petrol or methylated spirit (... *BOOOM*) Stefan From (Tom Rowe) Sat Sep 30 11:23:12 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 11:23:12 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: engine timming On 30 Sep 1995 15:33:48 GMT Roy wrote: >considered more accurate. Knowing how to do both would be good info. Using >strobe while at home and use static timing for repairs in the field are >required. I have used both with good results. Exactly what I do. When I got rid of my VW I put the timing light I'd made in my field spares box. >There are 12v strobe lights but they require that Joe Lucas is behaving nicely. I've only ever used 12v strobe lights. Never had a problem, even on Land Rovers. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Sep 30 22:10:08 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 22:10:08 -0400 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Bulkhead Repairs The repair sections from Rovers North are galvanized which is wonderful for corrosion protection. However, the zinc must be ground off of the surfaces to be welded. Wear a good dust mask since inhaling zinc is not healthy. Both individual sections as well as the complete footwell unit are listed. RN also lists door post (hinge pillar) replacements. I haven't done any bulkhead repairs yet, but the experience is clearly in my future. Here is what a search of my archives have produced in the way of published materials. Land-Rover Series I, II & III, Guide to Purchase & D.I.Y. Restoration, Lindsay Porter, Haynes, 1992 pp 90-92: 11 photos with captions. Replacement of complete footwell with replacement unit on new panel on one side, and large patches on the other. pp 133-136: 14 photos with captions of Series I bulkhead repairs Not a lot of details but helps in understanding the procedure. Practical Classics on Land Rover Restoration, Brooklands, pp 19-22: photos & captions on major repairs to a Series I bulkhead. Additional repairs to rot later discovered under the windscreen are mentioned further on. (This book is the tale of a Land Rover purchased with the intent of making limited repairs to get it back on the road, and then continuing the restoration while it was driven. It turned into a major rebuild of the entire vehicle. Does this sound familiar to anyone?) Land Rover Owner (LRO) (the magazine, not the mailing list) March 1995, pp 76-78: One of a series by Robert Ivins on restoring an early Series II. A brief description and photos of major repairs to a bulkhead. July 1994, pp 84-85: One of a series by Robert Ivins on restoring a Series I. A brief description and photos of major repairs to a Series I bulkhead. Land Rover World May 1994 pp 65-71, June 1994 pp 64-68 Two installments in a series by Jerry Glenwright on the restoration of an early Series II. These two cover the repair of a door hinge pillar using replacement parts. The discussion is rather detailed, although confusing at times without having dismantled a hinge pillar. After repairing one hinge pillar the decision was made to replace the bulkhead with another because of the extensive repairs required on the other side. A used bulkhead was obtained which required repairs. July 1994 pp 70-75: Another from the same series. Removal of the bulkhead without as major disassembly as the official manual calls for. Again a lot of detail. August 1994 pp 28-32: Footwell patching from the same series, including access to the footwells for repairs. The repairs are not as extensive as replacing the entire footwell. September 1994 pp 64-69: The last of the series which covers replacing the bulkhead bracket at the bottom of the hinge pillar. As with the others there is plenty of detail, but it can be a bit confusing if you are not actually doing the work. These are the most detailed, and probably the best discussion of bulkhead and hinge pillar replacement I have seen. Unfortunately, by Sept. 1994 issue was the last for Mr. Glenwright had vanished from the masthead and subsequent DIY repair articles have been much more cursory. The books and LRO back issues: LRO Bookshop Anglian House, Chapel Lane Botesdale, Diss, Norfolk IP22 1DT 01379 89011 01739 898244 Fax Land Rover World back issues LRW Back Issues Dept Hainault Rd, Little Heath Romford, Essex RM6 5NP 0181-597 7335 0181-599 5965 Fax From PDoncaster@aol.com Sat Sep 30 22:49:40 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 22:49:40 -0400 From: PDoncaster@aol.com Subject: IIA 88 Steering Box I'm about to start the rebuilding of the steering box on my IIA 88. I'm 90% sure it's the origin of my sloppy steering. Any one out there done this, got any advice!? Also, about these floor heat shields, are they a catalog item or custom? Peter Doncaster New Orleans, USA '64 IIA 88" SW PDoncaster@AOL.com Snorkel equiped, waiting for the next flood. From PDoncaster@aol.com Sat Sep 30 22:53:51 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 22:53:51 -0400 From: PDoncaster@aol.com Subject: Radio placement Jan Ben writes: > Also, can you recommend a place to fit a radio? Jan The previous owner of my 88 mounted the radio and CB against the bulkhead behind the front seats, specifically, behind the middle seat. My middle seat has a recess in the back,(could be custom) anyway, the knobs face up, and you have to lean the seat foreward to make adjustments, but it's out of the way and out of sight. Peter Doncaster '64 IIA 88 SW From Wdcockey@aol.com Sat Sep 30 23:57:44 1995 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 23:57:44 -0400 From: Wdcockey@aol.com Subject: Re: Max RPMs Engine Speed to Road Speed Equations (within limitations of text only) Gearbox (transmission), transfer case, over drive and axle ratios are all expressed as ratio of speed in to speed out. All Series Land Rover have axles with 4.70:1 ratio (unless modified) Fairey Overdrive ratio is 0.782:1 with the overdrive engaged, 1:1 with overdrive not engaged. Overall Ratio is the ratio of engine speed to tire rotational speed (i.e. how fast the tire is spinning - usually expressed in rpm) Overall Ratio = Gearbox Ratio * Transfer Case Ratio * Overdrive Ratio * Axle Ratio (See tables below) The formula for tire rotational speed to road speed is: Tire rotational speed = Road speed / (2 * PI * Rolling Radius) * Units Conversion Factor English Tire rotational speed (rpm) = 168 * Road speed (mph) / Rolling Radius (inches) Metric Tire rotational speed (rpm) = 2.65 * Road speed (kph) / Rolling Radius (metres) I've included the 2 * PI in the constant. Rolling Radius is the distance from the center of the wheel to the ground. Measure from the center of a hub cap to the ground with your LR parked. Rolling Radius increases slightly with speed, but the difference can be disregarded at LR speeds. So then: Engine speed = 168 * Overall ratio * road speed (mph) / rolling radius (in) Engine speed = 2.65 * Overall ratio * road speed (kph) / rolling radius (m) Or if you want to calculate road speed: Road speed (mph) = 0.00595 * Rolling radius (in) * Engine speed (rpm) / Overall ratio Road speed (kph) = 0.377 * Rolling radius (m) * Engine speed (rpm) / Overall ratio Go measure your tires, pick your prefered engine speed, and look up the appropriate overall ratios below. Then calculate your shift points. Or use the other formulas to find out how much you flog your engine. If you have overdrive multiply the overall ratios below by 0.78 for overdrive engaged. Be very careful of trying to add and subtract % changes. Engaging the overdrive DECREASES your ENGINE SPEED by 22% at constant road speed, but INCREASES your ROAD SPEED by 28% at constant engine speed. Since changes in ratios and tire size are multiplicative, percent changes for multiple changes do not simply add. Get out the calculator or use a spreadsheet instead. 15.1 mph per 1000 rpm engine speed in 4th gear, high range, no overdrive is a published number for 6.00 x 16 tires. Transmission and Transfer Case Ratios Series I & Series II/IIA thru trans "B" (approx. 1962) 4th 1.00 3rd 1.38 2nd 2.04 1st 3.00 Rev 2.55 Transfer Case High 1.15 Transfer Case Low 2.89 Overall Ratios in High without Overdrive 4th 5.40 3rd 7.43 2nd 11.02 1st 16.17 Series IIA fromFrom "John Y. Liu" Sun Oct 01 00:10:22 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 00:10:22 -0700 From: "John Y. Liu" Subject: Re: Radio placement Jan Ben writes: I built an aluminium shelf over the windshield. It's a good place for a radio (easily reached and seen, and likely to stay dry no matter what you ford), speakers can be built into it also, and serves as a handy place for other stuff too. Direct access to the roof for an antenna cable, too. Be sure to use a softer aluminium -- not wood or steel -- and roll the edges so as to minimize injury in case you bash into it in a crash (unless you're pretty tall, contact seems unlikely, though). From Lloyd Allison Sun Oct 1 20:26:06 1995 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 20:26:06 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Mark's on-line FYI Mark's 4WD Adaptors is on-line at: http://www.ozemail.com.au/~marks4wd/ Sarry Kouskoumbekakis handles the email and html. He showed me round on Saturday and I'll write it up in a week or two (no, ozemail is someone else!). Mark's have really specialised in conversions (dropped accessories) and have an amazing selection for a large set of engines and vehicles. Mark is a little sceptical about the Internet, but believes that he has to be in it. Lloyd From Duncan Brown Sun Oct 01 08:03:06 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 08:03:06 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally was great! All, I only attended the rally on Saturday (it's still going on today) but had a great time. Well over 100 Rovers, lots of very nice folks driving them. Great food, great events, what more could anyone ask for? My 3-year-old was being just as cute as could be (even when he got stung by a bee and screamed so loud they could hear him in North Carlina...) I don't think they gave an award for "youngest co-pilot" but he would have won for sure. A bunch of people went off on some extracurricular trail-riding on the nearby fire trails, and what a great time/disaster that was! I believe we had one of everything somewhere in that group: SI, SII, SIIA, SIII, Defender, Discovery, Range Rover...and even an FC101. Absolutely astonishing performances put in by all on some pretty steep/slanted/boggy terrain. Riding with me was a new SIIA owner who hasn't gotten his vehicle on the road yet. After yesterday, he is all the more eager to get it running. My Turner engine isn't looking so new any more....mud from top to bottom. I had adjusted the valves earlier in the day and along one section of the trail it started spewing oil from the valve cover. I guess I had gotten the gasket a bit offset, and when I hit a sideways bump it scooted out from under the cover and started letting oil drip down onto the manifold. What fun. After several attempts (on steep inclines, with muddy boots, etc.) I finally got it in there right again and stopped emitting blue clouds into the forest. It performed beautifully though, I continue to be just ecstatic with that purchase. One one steep incline, everyone was passing the slope at the bottom, and then backing into position for a straight shot up. Coming down we had simply made the turn, I couldn't see why I couldn't just hang a right and head up the slope. I found out why. I got one wheel in the air, axles jumping back and forth, etc. I threw in the clutch to give up and back down for a straight shot...and the lack of traction on the hill, combined with mud-filled and nearly useless brake drums, left me skittering straight back into a tree at about 3MPH. OUCH. Fortunately, I hit right on the left rear corner at such an angle to the tree that it broke the TOP taillight lens (not the one below it, and not even the bulb in that light!), put a little wrinkle in the aluminum below the top corner capping...and DESTROYED the horizontal canvas top side support on that side. Bowed it into a U shape. Hey, could have been a lot worse! Beyond that, there was an exceptionally steep hill (felt like 75 degrees coming down!) that only about half the vehicles were making it up under their own power. The rest had to be SLOWLY winched up. Eventually a couple of folks came up behind us again- they had found the other way out by coming in the other way! So we turned around to follow them out. And all promptly got utterly lost in the middle of a vast featureless fire break. We eventually found an actual road and made our way back to Penlan Farm...about 2 hours after dinner was to have been served. Fortunately it was still there and everyone had some of that great barbecue. No question in my mind I'll be heading down there again next year. Hope to see some of you there! Duncan, looking up the part number for a new hoop strut... From (Tom Rowe) Sun Oct 01 09:18:03 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 09:18:03 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: Bulkhead Repairs (zinc fumes) >The repair sections from Rovers North are galvanized which is wonderful for >corrosion protection. However, the zinc must be ground off of the surfaces to >be welded. Wear a good dust mask since inhaling zinc is not healthy. Snip As a former welder I have a lot of experience welding zinc coated metals. Zinc fumes are very toxic. Weld in a *well* ventilated area. Idealy keep yourself upwind of the fumes. And drink lots of milk. I say that because it helps to prevent zinc poisoning, not because of where I work. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Sun Oct 1 12:28:55 1995 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 95 12:28:55 EDT From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: misc. items RE new 109HT Hi all: I need advice on goodies available for the LWB hardtop. 1. rollbar that fits just inside the hardtop, so it can be used with the softtop ("hood", is it?) 2. aftermarket intake/exhaust improvement for carbed 3.5 with 2 SUs. (what's worth it, and what's a waste of money?). I can probably get a Edelbr. mainfold w. 390 Holley for $400 both. Is there a nice pair of carbs that fits instead of SU's, like Webers 40DCOEs? 3. (a silly one) the shift lever is straight, and it's a stretch for me to reach 1-2 shift. Should I just bend it, or is there an elegant soln? (more on this: I took a closer look, and there is no way to take the lever apart, though Haynes refers to a 2-piece assy.) Another option to make it a 2-piece. 4. I have a cheap small straight galv. front bumper w. bullbar mounted. Is there a good simple add-on setup, or will I have to change the bumper? 5. (never mind - I got this one) 6. I have a wish list of things to get from LRsupermarket or Craddocks. Is anyone still putting together an order here in US? Any suggestions or warnings re. ordering from UK? 7. I am interested in compiling spares for future projects. Anyone cleaning out their garage (in NE US) of Rangie 4-sp, engines ? PS. what is the induction history of the v8? when did they go to what FI system? Is the intake the same from 3.5->3.9->4.2 ? Thanks and bye for now. Jan From Michael Slade Sun Oct 1 09:58:07 1995 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Slade Subject: NADA 6 ??'s/Roverworks update Hello Everyone, Just a quick update about Roverworks of New York, and a question about the NADA 6 cyl engine. The rumors are true, and several people (including myself), have banded together and filed official complaints with the New York State Attorney General's office. Financial and business records have been subpoenaed and action is moving forward. I would strongly urge anyone with complaints about Roverworks to please contact me, and hopefully with strength in numbers something positive can be done. I would also strongly urge anyone with knowledge of anyone considering Roverworks for a vehicle or restoration of their vehicle to either abandon those thoughts or contact me first. Now, on to other matters, I have been considering a 109 that has a NADA 6 cyl. engine in it. It's been gone through and rebuilt, and has about 4800 miles on it. Questions are: How many miles can I count on before either a rebuild or a replacement? Obviously that is dependant on me and how I service the car, but are there longevity problems generally associated with that engine? Also, I've heard parts are a pain to get for that motor, and am wondering about a swap in the future when major engine repairs are necessitated. Suggestions for engines to consider for a swap when/if it is neccesary would be appreciated. Thanks for letting me ramble, Michael slade@teleport.COM Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81) From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 01 95 Oct EDT 1914 Date: 01 Oct 95 14:45:43 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: Off-roading in NH All, Sorry for the short notice, we are planning "A day in woods" this coming weekend saturday. Light to medium off roading, some light wading in puddles and the odd stream, come see the the changing colours of fall in southern New Hampshire off the beaten track. Those interested e-mail me back for info, we have 4 vehicles so far and those with Disco's or RR can come with the comfort that we will not tackling panel denting rocks ! All welcome. Mark From (Tom Rowe) Sun Oct 01 13:56:10 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 13:56:10 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: NADA 6 cyl On Sun, 1 Oct 1995 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Michael wrote: >Hello Everyone, Snip >Now, on to other matters, >I have been considering a 109 that has a NADA 6 cyl. engine in it. It's [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >been gone through and rebuilt, and has about 4800 miles on it. >Questions are: Snip >Also, I've heard parts are a pain to get for that motor, and am wondering >about a swap in the future when major engine repairs are necessitated. Parts can be a pain. Last I heard things like the water pump are no longer avail, as well as the brake booster. >Suggestions for engines to consider for a swap when/if it is neccesary >would be appreciated. You have a liitle more room for a future engine swap. Relative to that, the bulkhead is different than on a 4cyl, as well as the floor panels in the front. The transmission bellhousing is different than a 4cyl. Also, the front brakes on the 6cyl are larger (wider shoes) than any other US spec series, and it has different front wheel cylinders than the 4cyl 109 (steel as opposed to aluminum). I bought a Perkins diesel to put in my 6cyl, alot nicer fit than in the 4cyl engine bay, but it will probably go in my lightweight now than my petrol engine has about had it. If the price is good, I would get it with the assumption that you'll be replacing the engine down the road. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 =========END FORWARDED MESSAGE========= Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Sun Oct 1 15:37:56 1995 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 95 15:37:56 -0400 From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Subject: re: Unstable Idle in D90 Folks; Thanks to all who responded. John Brabyn was to firdt to respond with the solution, but by then the dealer had gotten the problem solved and I wound up apying $36 (to cover the diagnosis set-up cost), but the actual repair work was under warranty. The receipt stated that the "base idle" was adjusted, but as I questioned the mechanic what that actually was, it turns out that the idle air bypass valve was stuck, and subsequently couldn't respond quickly enough to prevent stall. Now that I know what it was, I'll make a point of cleaning it every time I replace the plugs per the shop manual's guidance, although I'll have to work on the compressed air source - those cheap electric compressors are looking better! Again, thanks all. Bill Skidmore From Gary Mitchelson Sun Oct 01 16:44:39 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 16:44:39 -0500 From: Gary Mitchelson Subject: LR shirt -- [ From: Gary Mitchelson * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- Does anyone know of another source for the green LR logo shirts other than the dealers in the US? -- Gary Mitchelson garym@racalrecord.com N3JPU From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 01 95 Oct EDT 1919 Date: 01 Oct 95 19:51:13 EDT From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Road speed and steering WD Cockey gives all the info reqd for road speed calcs. for James Curtis 205 tyres are the same rolling dia as 6.00 /6.50 .ie 29 in which is approx 710 rev/ mile. 15 mph per 1000 revs in top gear with .78 o/d ratio = 19.18 mph per 1000 revs which at 85 mph = 4400 rpm. A std 2 1/4 will not pull this gear ratio, it just does not have the power to propel the aorodynamic brick, aka Land Rover at this speed, except down in 1 in 4 gradient, I suggest that you find your local police measured mile and time yourself at some legal road speeds to check the speedo accuracy. Peter doncaster writes re steering box slack, There is 'nt much you can do to rebuild a steering box other than fit new balls which usually does not do much good since the screw track is usally more worn than the balls. It is easy to see how much free play there is in the box, simply watch the output arm as you move the steering wheel to and fro. There is a backlash adjustment on the side of the box, which can be reached from under the wing ( fender ) it is normally covered by a steel box shaped cover, slacken the locknut and tighten the screw until the backlash is reduced, check the free play at both steering lcks to ensure that it is not too tight at the extremes which are usually less worn than the centre part. Trevor Easton when you read this please send me your E mail address, I have had some mail bounced back. Regards Bil Leacock. From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sun Oct 01 17:34:57 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 1995 17:34:57 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: misc. items RE new 109HT Jan Ben writes: >I need advice on goodies available for the LWB hardtop. 1. rollbar that fits just inside the hardtop, so it can be used with the softtop ("hood", is it?) The softtop "hood" in the UK is referred to as a "tilt". You can get a full tilt for the 109, replacing the entire top (don't know what happens at the rear doors for a 4-door); or a 3/4 tilt, as for a 109 pickup, etc. Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Sun Oct 1 22:35:29 1995 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:35:29 -0400 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Anyone done this? Has anyone retrofitted a rear cargo area rubber mat from a D90.....the one with the logo and goes up and over the wheel wells......? Does it take much trimming? Does it look 'boogered up' when trimmed to fit? Seems like it would be an excellent alternative to the thin floor mat or no mat at all. Any good sources except the franchise ($$$$) dealers? Thanks all. Rick Crider kd4fxa Monroe NC 66 Slla 109" .........for sale........ 73 Slll 88" 88 Range Rover From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Sun Oct 1 23:28:52 1995 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:28:52 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: CHECK the Timing Chain! Well the Rover is apart again! Over this past summer I had been experiencing a noise from the front of the engine in my 73 Series III - 88 that can best be described as a loud rattle when the engine was idling. The noise would come and then go away for a while. But over the last couple of months it did not go away, and seemed to get louder. After seeking advice from fellow OVLR members, I had finally convinced myself that it was the timing chain again. I originally had problems with the timing chain back in 1988. When I took the timing cover off the chain had stretched to the point where the tensioner was off the ratchet and the chain was starting to rub on the inside of the case. It did not make a rattling noise then. The timing chain and tensioner was replaced at that time with original Land Rover parts. The Rover has done approximately 15,000 miles since then, and the engine was rebuilt in 1993 due to a burnt exhaust valve. The timing chain looked OK at that time. This time when I took the cover off, little pieces of aluminum fell out of the cover. Apparently the Tensioner Idler Wheel had decided to self-destruct, and the timing chain was wearing away the aluminum shaft where the gear used to be! Needless to say I was not a happy LR owner, and proceeded to drop the oil sump. As I suspected many little bits of aluminum were floating in the oil sludge in the bottom of the sump. But.......all these little pieces do not come anywhere close to making up the idler wheel. Sooo......a lot of the aluminum idler wheel has been ground up in to very fine aluminum filings. Now I am looking for advice from the collective wisdom of the Land Rover net. Should I be worried about those little bits of aluminum floating around in the engine? Should I drop the oil pump, clean and check it? Should I take off a big end cap and check the bearing shells? Is the oil filter system on the Land Rover a Full Flow system (does all the oil go thru the filter first), or is it a Bypass filter system (some oil goes past the filter)? Now all the time I have been reading this Land Rover list I have not heard other owners mention timing chain problems. Is this a common problem? Should a timing chain have to be replaced within 15,000 miles? What would cause the idler wheel to self-destruct? Last question! Has anyone had experience with the Pad Tensioner which replaces the idler wheel as shown in Rovers North catalog? If so how often does the pad need replacing? Sorry for the length of this post, but I just had to vent my frustrations at having the Rover laid up for a week or two just when I need it most, and feeling bad about not having taken it apart sooner. Thanks for listening........Richard From skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Sun Oct 1 16:36:19 1995 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 95 16:36:19 -0400 From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Subject: re: Service Bulletins for Late Model Land Rovers Folks; re my previous calling out the ALLDATA web page as a source for the service bulletins that are in effect for late-model rovers: BEWARE My dealer stated that all of the ones identified on the ALLDATA web page for the '94 D90 were never issued for that vehicle, and in fact, the bottom of the page indicates EAS, which stands for Electronic Air Suspension (like in late model Range Rovers). This page is therefore SUSPECT. I recommend that anyone wishing to identify which bulletins are valid for their vehicles, to use this page as an indicator that MUST be verified by a LR delaership or LRNA (I don't know if RN or AB or any of the other authorized parts shops receive these bulletins). Alternatively, contact LRNA and try to get the info from them (good luck!). Bill Skidmore From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Sun Oct 01 21:38:43 1995 Date: Sun, 01 Oct 95 21:38:43 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Intermittent problem with '87 RR solved. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Intermittent problem with '87 RR solved. I'll make this short, since I'm at home on a *slow* dinosaur of a PC. The problem that so many of you have been diligently helping me to find a solution for is at last resolved. I took it to the dealer (I sure didn't have the ability to play "plug and play") and they called me to tell me the mechanical advance in the distributor is frozen, and would be around $350 (US) to rebuild. Later that day, they called to say they needed the RR another day. Then, the next day, they said it wasn't the distributor, and that they wouldn't charge me for that, but they had definitely located the problem... The alternator!! This (rebuilt) was amazingly, the same price. Thanks for all your input!!! I really appreciate all your help in resolving this problem. I am now confident (at least for the moment) that with all the poking and prodding that's been done to the beast, that *nothing* should go wrong for a while now!!!! Anyone up for a 4WD run??? YEEEEE---HAAAAA!!! Dave (In Rover Bliss once again) Brown. #=====# #========# -------,___ _______ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ / /__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\___/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} ( ) ( ) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") $8500 bargain Now have $9K in it. And going... and ... #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Vel Natarajan Mon Oct 2 03:34:43 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:34:43 -0500 (CDT) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Which brand of Overdrive? I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but I'm considering putting in an O/D in my '66-88". Not definite, because I'm content with the speed now but it would be nice to not cringe when passing Army trucks and Vauxhall Chevettes on the Motorway. I wanted people's opinions on the difference between the Fairey and Superwinch overdrives. Looking in Craddock's/Paddock's et.al. I only see the Superwinch advertised (almost 500 quid - ouch). The PO had a superwinch on there as indicated by the "Overdrive by Superwinch" sticker on the rear crossmember. Is the Superwinch a solid, reliable unit, or look should I around for a Fairey? (Or are there any other recommendations? Toro?) Opinions? Vel ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Vel Natarajan Phone: +44-1793-556-742 Motorola Inc. Fax: +44-1793-430-987 16 Euro Way, Mobile: +49-171-854-6670 Blagrove, Swindon, England, SN5 8YQ Email: nataraja@cig.mot.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mike Rooth Mon Oct 2 10:08:01 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 10:08:01 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Which brand of Overdrive? Superwinch *is* Fairey.Or rather Fairey became Superwinch. Same with FWH.As far as I know you cant buy a Fairey O/D, winch,or FWH set any more. Cheers Mike Rooth From (Tom Rowe) Mon Oct 02 07:02:58 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 07:02:58 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: misc. items RE new 109HT > Jan Ben writes: >>I need advice on goodies available for the LWB hardtop. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > pickup, etc. > Michael Carradine, The rag top is only available for the 109 regular (2 door), in either full or 3/4 length. Having said that, I read somewhere awhile back about someone here in the States that had made a custom canvas top for a four door. I think he cut off the pillars between the front and rear doors, and maybe the top half of the rear doors. I think the article was in a RN or AB newsletter. Does anyone else remember it? Has anyone in the UK done such a custom job? Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From (Tom Rowe) Mon Oct 02 07:30:59 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 07:30:59 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: Which brand of Overdrive? Snip >Army trucks and Vauxhall Chevettes on the Motorway. I wanted people's >opinions on the difference between the Fairey and Superwinch [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >Is the Superwinch a solid, reliable unit, or look should I around >for a Fairey? (Or are there any other recommendations? Toro?) I thought the Superwinch and Fairey were one & the same, just from different periods. In comaparing the the guts of a Fairey with those of a Bearmach, it looks to me that the BM overdrive is a better unit. Plus it holds more oil I believe. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Guy Arnold Mon Oct 2 09:26:21 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:26:21 EDT From: Guy Arnold Subject: Movie Sighting I don't know if this has been listed before but I saw the previews for the new James Bond movie "Goldeneye" and they showed a D-90 going off a pier into the water. When are they going to stop killing the best character in those movies just to thrill the uninformed audience? Guy Arnold 1973 Series III swb "Green Machine" From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 02 95 Oct EDT 1909 Date: 02 Oct 95 09:24:02 EDT From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: ROAV Mid Atlantic Rally Duncan, I wish we had a chance to introduced ourselves, I would have loved to see the Turner engine! I was the one with the Aluminum SerIII soft top that came back around to help find the other way out. Sorry about the few wrong turns but that brush all looks the same when it gets dark. I hope you enjoyed the ride anyway. At least that trail gave everyone a good idea of what a LandRover can do, and supplied enough stories to last until next year. By the way, I think those hills were both about 60 degrees Rob Dennis 72 Ser III 90 RR Rob Dennis Atlanta, GA USA 73363.427@Compuserve.com 02-Oct-1995 From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 2 95 Oct EDT 1910 Date: 2 Oct 95 10:03:08 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Brakes finally fixed... Well, my old friend Churchill finally has brakes - and I'm embarassed to admit what was wrong with them. Out of disgust with the whole situation, I finally bribed my brother-in-law o com up and cast a fresh eye on the situation. He earns his living at auto repair, so I figured he was a good bet to find the problem. To make a long story shor, it turned out that my rear brake cylinders were half-frozen; things were moving, but not enough and not well. I should have caught that... WHat caused the problem was that at one time the PO of my Rover had "rebuilt" thje cylinders, in the process not greasing anything that should have had rubber grease applied. Due to this and some wading, the pistons stuck to their bores and moved only with difficulty, causing my problem. After a cylinder rebuild, bleeding and adjustment I can now lock all 4 with no problems and no pumping...Pleased I am. Thanks to all for all the wonderful suggestions and advice. ajr From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 2 95 Oct EDT 1910 Date: 2 Oct 95 10:06:20 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: I wouldn't expect to hear from Dixon today.... ... as he and Dale Desprey pulled out of my driveway at 12:30 this morning with a 2.25 Diesel in the back of a severely overladen Saab... The last bits of conversation I heard revolved around what they were going to tell Customs/Douane at the border..... -ajr From Daniel Polak Mon Oct 2 15:17:00 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 15:17:00 +0100 From: Daniel Polak Subject: Lightweight questions My Lightweight Land Rover has a chassis number which starts with 95. The FAQ lists chassis numbers but stops long before numbers with 95 are reached. Here in the Netherlands cars become exempt from road tax after a certain age. Because of that I would like to have some official document stating the age of the car. Does anybody know how old my Lightweight is or how I can find out its age? The chassis has been replaced by a galvanised chassis. Is it still necessary to have this treated with Tectyl (do you call it that in English?) to prevent rust? If I park the car outdoors and drive it a few times every month will it still be in good condition 10 years from now or is it much better to store it in a garage (of course normal cars would rust and decay but Land Rovers don't do that :-) )? Daniel -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ==> Be advised this is a new address, a new phone number, a new fax ==> number and a new e-mail address! ==> We will move office on 29 September 1995. SYS, Supporting Your Systems B.V. Daniel J. Polak Jarmuiden 54D 1046 AE Amsterdam The Netherlands Phone: +31-20-6136323 Fax: +31-20-6135934 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet e-mail: DANIEL@SYS.NL Internet home page: http://www.euronet.nl/users/sysadam/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Dixon Kenner Mon Oct 2 10:26:08 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:26:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally was great! On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Duncan Brown wrote: > I only attended the rally on Saturday (it's still going on today) > but had a great time. Well over 100 Rovers, lots of very nice folks > driving them. Great food, great events, what more could anyone ask > for? Missed you... I was interested in seeing this engine of yours. Was basically only there for Saturday (Had to leave 9am SUnday to get to Boston to pick up a 2.25l Diesel and then back to Ottawa to get to work. Made it here by 8:45am... Long drive > I believe we had one of everything somewhere in that group: SI, SII, > SIIA, SIII, Defender, Discovery, Range Rover...and even an FC101. Counted 106 at one point, but there were a few more I missed with vehicles coming and going... > No question in my mind I'll be heading down there again next year. I'll be back. Had a good time there, though I think the trials course could use a wee bit more mud... :-) From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Mon Oct 2 10:34:15 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:34:15 -0400 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Is It A U-Joint? Hey, that Rover Rally was a hoot wasn't it? Nice to put faces to e-mail signatures and really find out who's been offering up the advice to me during my first year of Rover ownership. Thanks to Bill Maloney, Jeff Berg, Trevor, Sandy, et al. Anyway, after a quick field repair at Penlan Farm yesterday am...Nate Dunsmore and I had to replace a missing alternator bolt (I thought I heard someone under the Rover in the middle of the night...didn't miss the overdrive until I got back to Baltimore). So here I am driving down I-64 toward Richmond at subsonic speeds when every now and then the Rover seems to stutter a bit in the drivetrain. When I keep it under acceleration it works find, but when I left of the gas a bit and then step on it again it jerks a bit. This a U-joint, propshaft problem. How do I figure it out? Thanks. From Sanna@aol.com Mon Oct 2 11:16:54 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:16:54 -0400 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Re: CHECK the Timing Chain! --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: CHECK the Timing Chain! From Dixon Kenner Mon Oct 2 11:43:34 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:43:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: I wouldn't expect to hear from Dixon today.... On 2 Oct 1995, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > The last bits of conversation I heard revolved around what they were going > to tell Customs/Douane at the border..... -ajr Mr. CustomsMan "What is under the tarp?" Dixon "A large heavy piece of oily junk" Mr. CustomsMan "What kind of a piece of junk?" Dixon "A Land Rover Diesel engine that at $50 was way over priced. The sleeping chap next to me seems to think diesels are OK" Mr. CustomsMan "Fine, you can go..." Of course, the leaking oil landing on the new Jack-all would have only reinforced my opinion that I have had it a while, though would have been hard pressed to demonstrate its usefullness on the Saab. Besides, Jack-alls are made in Canada. I was just repatriating it from a foreign land. Hmm, should probably drill a couple of holes in the rear floor pans of the Saab. Then it can be as incontinent as the 109, though the Exxon Valdez it pulled before Stowe in the landlord's driveway... Oi... From Duncan Brown Mon Oct 02 12:13:06 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 12:13:06 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Drivetrain stutter Chris, > Hey, that Rover Rally was a hoot wasn't it? Nice to put faces to e-mail > signatures and really find out who's been offering up the advice to me > during my first year of Rover ownership. Thanks to Bill Maloney, Jeff Berg, > Trevor, Sandy, et al. I was spending too much time keeping my 3 year old from disassembling other peoples' Rovers and not enough time trying to figure out who was who, I hope to do better next year... (Honest-to-God, he dragged the crossbar out of the back of my Rover and was heading towards other Rovers with it to remove their lugnuts; he even had the proper end forward!) > overdrive until I got back to Baltimore). So here I am driving down I-64 > toward Richmond at subsonic speeds when every now and then the Rover seems > to stutter a bit in the drivetrain. When I keep it under acceleration it > works find, but when I left of the gas a bit and then step on it again it > jerks a bit. This a U-joint, propshaft problem. How do I figure it out? Most common driveshaft problems (worn U-joint, worn splines, worn yoke) should be visible by grabbing on to the driveshaft and rocking it back and forth and seeing which pieces stop before others. If your yoke is worn (like mine!) you'll be able to see where the u-joint cap has been spinning under the circlip...they aren't supposed to do this! Don't overlook the obvious: bits of mud, rock, sticks stuck in U-joints, boots, wheels, tires. If you have locking hubs, use them to narrow the problem down to front or rear drivetrain. 2 or 3 times since I bought my truck I've had the experience where I'm heading down the highway at 55 and there's this sudden horrendous shaking under the front end of the truck, and just about the time it sounds like both wheels are going to break away from their hubs....the front propshaft boot comes bouncing under the truck and out the back...and now all I have are two hose clamps jangling around up there. My old engine blew enough oil out the vent pipe to keep this boot in a constant oil bath. I'm hoping now that it only gets bathed when I change the oil filter that it will last a bit longer...I try to wipe all the oil off each time anyway! But these boots just never have a chance with the constant threat of lubrication... Duncan From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Mon Oct 02 09:25:13 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 09:25:13 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Manufacturing date of Lightweight Daniel Polak writes: >My Lightweight Land Rover has a chassis number which starts with 95. Does anybody know how old my Lightweight is or how I can find out its age? The chassis has been replaced by a galvanised chassis. Write to: Mr. John Riley Project Eng., Traceability LAND ROVER Lode Lane, Solihull West Midlands B29 8NW England Give him the VIN number and other info from the plate on the bulkhead, not you chassis number as it has been replaced later (by a third party). Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Mon Oct 2 9:43:51 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 9:43:51 PDT From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: D90 Calendar Poster There's a very interesting poster calendar of the Defender 90 Station Wagon in the latest issue of Four Wheeler magazine. Check it out! -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From John Brabyn Mon Oct 2 10:12:22 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 10:12:22 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Intermittent problem with '87 RR solved. On Sun, 1 Oct 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote: > problem... The alternator!! This (rebuilt) was amazingly, the same price. Great news Dave!! What is the theory behind the alternator problem -- I don't understand how it could cause the symptoms unless it was shorting out and lowering the available voltage to the ignition or something??? Cheers JOhn Brabyn 89RR From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Oct 02 10:44:34 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 95 10:44:34 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Re: Intermittent problem with '87 RR solved. *** Resending note of 10/02/95 10:09 FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Re: Intermittent problem with '87 RR solved. ========================================================================= From Leland J Roys Mon Oct 2 10:51:04 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 10:51:04 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Def-90 Spark Plugs Def-90 Spark Plugs: An interesting thing happened yesterday. I was looking under the hood of my Def-90, making sure all the fluids were topped off etc, I just happened to glance at the spark plug wires, I noticed to my suprise! that two of them were almost ready to fall of the spark plugs! I pushed them back into place and they popped right on. The interesting thing is that I had noticed a slight drop of power in the last weeks of driving, and that the temp guage had been running 1 notch hotter than normal. After putting the plugs back into place, the power is back, and the temp guage is right in the center. I will definately need to check the wires more often, I have no idea how long they were detached (I just had the 7500 miles service done, the truck is 5 months old). My question is, I can understand the lack of power of course, but why the higher temp with plugs not firing? and you would think there would have been a more noticeable power loss? Leland Roys roys@cup.hp.com Cupertino California 1994 Def-90 (Red) From Benjamin Allan Smith Mon Oct 02 11:10:30 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 11:10:30 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Manufacturing date of Lightweight Daniel Polak wrotes: > >My Lightweight Land Rover has a chassis number which starts with 95. > Does anybody know how old my Lightweight is or how I can find out its age? > The chassis has been replaced by a galvanised chassis. Michael Carradine wrote: > Give him the VIN number and other info from the plate on the bulkhead, > not you chassis number as it has been replaced later (by a third party). the 95x (x=1..5) were built from 1972 to Oct 1, 1979. Starting Oct 1, 1979 Land Rover started using VINs. So this Rover has a serial number not a VIN number. Ben From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Mon Oct 2 14:11:49 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:11:49 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Amazing...ROAV broke a 20 year record...it did *not* rain. In fact, the weather was perfect. We had 106 registered vehicles and another dozen or so that did not register or were from various comapnies. Maybe 120+ vehicles with well over 225 people. The Results: The Aluminium Man Triathlon (TM): 1) Dennis Perzynski driving a 110. He won a pair of Dunlop Radial Rover tires, the trophy, a Camel Trophy liscense plate and a Camel Trophy t-shirt. 2)Quintin Aspin driving the '51 80". 3) Julian Brace in a D-90. 4) Jared Silbersher in the 101. The teeter-totter: 1) "Diesel Bob" McCullough (*9* seconds!) 2) Jackie Bookout. 3) Danny Marko. 4) Brian Julian. Most Functional: Jared Silbersher's 101 Forward Control. People's Choice: Scott Miller in an unusual Series One "woody" or 'shooting brake' Greatest Distance Traveled: Danny Marko - West Palm Beach, FL; Gene Nault and Rick Sanders, Sarasota, FL. For you local list members, a photo spread will appear in Tuesday's Richmond Times Dispatch. And we haven't learned our lesson yet...we'll be doing it again next year, but one week later - the *first* weekend of October. I'll leave the actual description of the rally to the other 'netters that were there. Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns) Mon Oct 2 11:25:18 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:25:18 -0700 From: burns@lint.cisco.com (Russell burns) Subject: Re: Def-90 Spark Plugs Those two cylinders were probably misfiring. At 10:51 AM 10/2/95 PDT, Leland J Roys wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Def-90 Spark Plugs: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] >roys@cup.hp.com >Cupertino California >1994 Def-90 (Red) Russ Burns________________________________________________________________ CiscoSystems From Daniel Polak Mon Oct 2 20:34:00 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 20:34:00 +0100 From: Daniel Polak Subject: Manufacturing date of Lightweight Thanks for your quick reply. The chassis has been replaced, but the chassis number is on the left side of the body instead of on the chassis on a Lightweight. I checked but could find nothing on the bulkhead. I'll write to the Land Rover address you gave me. Thanks again, Daniel From "Francis J. Twarog" Mon Oct 2 16:11:28 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 16:11:28 -0400 (EDT) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Re:Martha's Vineyard sightings A friend of mine just returned from MV with his 88" - said that the 109" was Cristy Brinkley and Billy Joel's truck. Asking price was $19k. About 3 years ago, I remember seeing a picture of Cristy and the truck - naturally, it reaffirmed my feeling that Land Rovers are beautiful things... Frank From jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Mon Oct 2 17:01 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 17:01 EDT From: jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Subject: New Orleans I made a weekend trip to New Orleans. While walking around the French Quarter, I came across a SIIA 88 on Chartes St.. It was well used, and well cared for. It had a resident parking sticker, and also had a Camel Trophy 1991 sticker on the front bumper. Somehow, surrounded by all those beautiful old buildings, the Land Rover seemed to fit. Wish I had met the owner. James From Leland J Roys Mon Oct 2 15:11:29 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 15:11:29 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Problem Cardboard Problem Cardboard: Well I finally have the answer, The piece of cardboard that covers the wires on the passenger side (1994 Def-90) was constantly falling off. I gave up having the dealer fix it (both times I took it in for service they said they fixed it, later it would fall down again). Well, I noticed yesterday that it was no longer falling off, my girlfriend said she had placed 2 chopsticks under the cardboard where it fits in the metal tabs. My gosh it worked! (Yes I did try tapeing it before, but it looked ugly). So I now have the answer to the falling cardboard, chopsticks! Leland Roys roys@cup.hp.com 1994 Def-90 (Red) From Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> 02 95 Oct EDT 1917 Date: 02 Oct 95 17:03:22 EDT From: Mark Ritter <70472.1130@compuserve.com> Subject: Stephen O'Hearn I have been responding to the named above about some Rover parts for sale and ahve been unsuccessful at contacting him. If anybody is familiar with him could you please tell him to E-mail me to let me know if the lights he had advertised are still for sale. Mark Ritter From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Oct 02 22:11:17 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Oct 1995 22:11:17 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: It's all a question of timing... Rick asks... > How does one decipher which head one has......7.1 or 8.1 ratio. I have > both a Slla and a Slll.......are the heads not the same? Is the timing > proceedure different? / I believe that the easiest way to spot the differance is to look at the head bolt directly opposite the carburetor. Specifically, the raised boss in the head where the bolt is. On the 7.1 head, the boss is like all the others, while on the 8.1 head the boss is a rectangular shape that extends to the edge of the head. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From jpappa01@interserv.com Mon Oct 2 20:35:09 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 95 20:35:09 PDT From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: D90 SW A little more info on the now imminent D90 SW. * No external D110-style cage. External appearance is truncated cage same as limited aluminum hardtop for 1994. Difference inside is a full hoop behind front seats similar to D110 hoop. Literature calls it special exterior/interior safari cage. * Somewhat revised fascia - but photos that I have seen could be early prototype - still not sure. We got new brochures at Metro West other day on Defender but were identical to regular 1995 brochure. Suspect dedicated brochure again similar to 1993 D110 glossy. * FINALLY!* Rear mud flaps to be available for D90. I fervently hope that they will fit the normal D90 and that the exhaust layout wasn't modified for the D90 SW. * Full carpeting and interior (headliner/side panels) standard. * Colors are all-white, blue-white roof, green-white roof. * A/C still dealer-installed option. * No official MSRP as of yet. Will revert with any more info. BSROA Fall Heritage IV was a great success with over 30 vehicles and 60 persons in attendance in our new venue in the gorgeous Berkshires. Scenery was breath-taking all weekend long. Many convoys. Neat mini-off road course carved out by Denis Nault & Co., followed by some neat rock-climbing going up the backside of Jiminy Peak! Pig roast, raffle, partying. Thanks for great raffle prizes by Land Rover Metro West and Rovers North! Plans well under way for next year. Same time. Same place. Look for night time off road course. ARC-style taxed vehicle course. More off-road with lunch at summit. Vehicles in attendance inlcuded Discos, a 4.0 SE (!), twelve (!) Defender 90s, 2-door Range Rovers, Range Rover County, Series included 2, 2A, 3, 88 + 109 military. Convoy home was via Mohawk trail and lunch atop Mt. Graylock. Members received goodie bag courtesy of BSROA and LRNA. See you next year! Next BSROA event is Race Point 2 beach drive on Sunday, Oct. 22. Flyer to be mailed out this week to members. cheerz Jim - I got blistaz on my fingaz! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Mon Oct 2 23:38:51 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:38:51 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Rally stuff Just got back to town and fired up the ol' box. Had quite a few messages waiting, some dating from last Friday. Though we had a link at the rally, the land lines were particularly awful in that part of the country, and the mail server back here in town was barfing at everything. So my appologies to those that I did not return messages to. It was just too much of a hassle and too damned slow trying to get messages in/out. (I could send one and maybe a fragment of another before the system would hang.) Gonna have to haver a talk with the service provider.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 |From Mike Rooth Tue Oct 3 9:38:40 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 9:38:40 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Lightweight questions Daniel, Try writing to the Lightweight Land Rover Club. Sue Foster 31 Slimbridge Close, Breightmet, Bolton BL2 5NT Tel 01204 396449 There is,I beleive a facility whereby the Army Records can be consulted to give you the vehicles army record(if the record for the vehicle still exists)which may help.If anyone knows about this,the Lightweight Club should. Cheers Mike Rooth PS If its British Army,of course. From Richard Jones Tue Oct 3 9:58:56 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 9:58:56 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Intermittent problem with '87 RR solved. DEBROWN@srp.gov writes: > All the dealer said was that "The alternator was sending the wrong signals > to the ECU." I don't know exactly what, whether low voltage of amperage, or > what, but it started every time, and gave no indication of an alternator Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the engine RPM information come from the alternator? __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From William Caloccia Tue Oct 03 06:02:26 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 06:02:26 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Defender 110 owners with problems > From: Treski@aol.com > Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:48:15 -0400 > Attn all 110 owners: I f you have had a problem of any kind with your rover > that was fixed under warranty, please write about it here. ex getting all > 4 doors replaced because of a bad paint job. thank you Don't bother writing about it here, this list isn't for whinging and moaning, just send your moaning mail directly to 'Treski@aol.com', or you'd probably get better results if you wrote to the manufacturer's agent and told 'em directly how much you liked the vehicle, but how disappointed you were that xxxx. Cheers, -Bill From sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Tue Oct 3 10:57:02 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 10:57:02 BST From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: UJs Hi there, last week a friend had a similar problem with his drive train. I guessed at UJs as mine did the same when they went. I crawled under the back and grabbed the prop. There was hardly any movement but it made loads of noise when he drove. The problem appears to be in my drive! There is a very slight slope which was causing the vehicle to 'lean' on the handbrake which kept the drivetrain taut and managed to take up all the slack. A later check on level ground revealed loads of play. The moral of the story is put the rear axle on stands so that the prop is free to flap in the breeze! Another possible cause which I saw recently before my diff exploded was excess play in the pinion / crown wheel. It made a fair bit of noise and snatch and jerking on take off. This manifested it self as a lot of play in the handbrake as well. Easy to test for, just put the handbrake on and see how far you can rock the vehicle backwards and forwards just using the play in the axle, prop and whatever. Play in the splines and ujs can also do this though so eliminate them before condemning your diff. Before it blew I had nearly a foot of movement this way and I now have just a few inches. Mine made lots of noise for months before it finally blew and stripped all the teeth though. This is probably not your problem though as my V6 does load up the rear axle a bit more than most engines. Never broken a half shaft though! Steve Reddock, Lightweight V6 From Daniel Polak Tue Oct 3 12:07:00 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 12:07:00 +0100 From: Daniel Polak Subject: RE: Lightweight questions FORWARDED MESSAGE from Mike Rooth (MAIL @ UUCP {M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk}) MR> at 3-10-95 09:38 MR> Daniel, MR> Try writing to the Lightweight Land Rover Club. MR> Sue Foster MR> 31 Slimbridge Close, MR> Breightmet, MR> Bolton BL2 5NT MR> MR> Tel 01204 396449 MR> MR> There is,I beleive a facility whereby the Army Records can MR> be consulted to give you the vehicles army record(if the record MR> for the vehicle still exists)which may help.If anyone knows MR> about this,the Lightweight Club should. MR> Cheers MR> Mike Rooth MR> MR> PS If its British Army,of course. ***** NOTES from Daniel Polak (DANIEL @ SYS) at 3-10-95 12:05 Thanks for your suggestions! I am already a member of the Lightweight club and tried getting info from the Army but they couldn't find anything about my Rover. However I will tell the club about this mailing list, I think they all will be very interested. Daniel -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ==> Be advised this is a new address, a new phone number, a new fax ==> number and a new e-mail address! ==> We will move office on 29 September 1995. SYS, Supporting Your Systems B.V. Daniel J. Polak Jarmuiden 54D 1046 AE Amsterdam The Netherlands Phone: +31-20-6136323 Fax: +31-20-6135934 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internet e-mail: DANIEL@SYS.NL Internet home page: http://www.euronet.nl/users/sysadam/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From WASSILI@AMC.UVA.NL Tue Oct 03 14:03:07 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 14:03:07 +0001 From: WASSILI@AMC.UVA.NL Subject: Original Discovery rubber floor mats Hello Roverers, I've just bought a new Discovery Commercial 300 TDi, blinded side windows after the front seats' and no back seats, '95 model and I've also bought an original LandRover Discovery rubber floor mat set ( great for muddy feet! :-) ). The floor mats for the rear passengers are useless to me. Someone interested? If so E-mail me at wassili@amc.uva.nl ______ | ### \______ | ## ### #####\ |## ### ######\______ | ___\ | ___ \ |___/ \_______/ \ | ( 0 ) ( 0 ) Roy Wassili From "David McKain" Tue Oct 3 09:21:19 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:21:19 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: BRLRC Home Page There is a new Web page for the Blue Ridge Land Rover Club located at http://www.coe.wvu.edu:80/~wwwatf/brlrc/brlrc.htm. Please visit this site and contact me with any feedback (positive or negative). Members of the club are encouraged to e-mail me direct so I can compile a list of club members who are connected. Watch for the home page to expand. Thanks, David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@cemr.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From "Guzelis.Pete" 3 1995 Oct U 1908 Date: 3 Oct 1995 08:05:31 U From: "Guzelis.Pete" Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Defender 90 sighting! Just got back to sunny California after a 2 week (3200 mile) vacation in the 4 corners area of the Southwest. While in Moab Utah, spotted a D90 setup to do some serious off-roading. Never got a chance to see/talk to the owner. Anyone know who ownes this one? By the way, my '94 Disco never missed a beat throughout the entire trip except for a minor engine stall while in Durango Colorado. This occurance after a super climb up the 13K foot Engineer's Pass road (ha ha). Talked to a mechanic at the L/R service center in Sante Fe a few days later and he said that similar problems due to gasoline formulated for winter conditions being released too early in the season. Ever heard of this guys?? No big deal however. I just thought that I got a little dust accumulated after a good 1 1/2 weeks off roading in Canyon De Chelley, Monument Valley, Moab (Canyonlands), Durango/Silverton, and Chaco Canyon. By the way, anyone know of US-type replacement Air/Oil filters. I want to keep using genuine L/R parts whenever but in a pinch I'd sure like to have an alternate should the occasion arise. Bye the bye, our trip to the 4 corners area of the Southwest should not be overlooked for anyone interested in our American Indian culture. Lots of good stuff to see. To say the least the Anasazi Indians sure knew how to set up camp! Unbelievable how these people could have the technology and perserverance to construct very complicated dwellings carved into the sides of mountains. All should see this. I've been to Europe and seen archeological digs from the ancient Greeks and Romans and are no more spectacular than that built by the "ancient ones". Have a good day! _______________________________________________________________________________ From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 95 Oct EDT 1909 Date: 3 Oct 95 9:30:55 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Replaced door gasketing, but it won't stay ON... In the cleanup of my old friend Churchill, I replaced all of the rubber gasketing around his doors, adhering it with RTV (per a tip in LRO). Well, it doesn't want to stay on. The RTV bonds well to the metal, but peels right off the gasketing itself. I've also tried the 3M contact cement recommended for this application and it was worse - it wouldn't adhere on either surface worth a rat's butt. Any suggestions before I get pissed off and rivet the stuff on? -ajr From BobandSueB@aol.com Tue Oct 3 11:54:44 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:54:44 -0400 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: series head comp ratio >>Rick asks... >> How does one decipher which head one has......7.1 or 8.1 ratio. I >have >> both a Slla and a Slll.......are the heads not the same? Is the timing >> proceedure different? >Mike says, >I believe that the easiest way to spot the differance is to look at the head [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >while on the 8.1 head the boss is a rectangular shape that extends to >the >edge of the head. >Cheers > Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com HI, The square boss appeared on the later SIIA and can be either 7-1 or 8-1, It will be stamped (7 or 8). The previous heads without the boss are 7-1 unless/until milled down. Bob Bernard From Oscar Montelibano Wed Oct 4 00:16:30 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:16:30 +0800 From: Oscar Montelibano Subject: information Have a LR product and in the Philippines. What's this group about and how do I join, if I qualify having a Rangie. TIA Oscar Oscar Montelibano omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From John Brabyn Tue Oct 3 09:43:37 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 09:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: D90 SW On Mon, 2 Oct 1995 jpappa01@interserv.com wrote: > D90 SW. > * Full carpeting and interior (headliner/side panels) standard. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > * A/C still dealer-installed option. > * No official MSRP as of yet. Jim -- sorry to be ignorant; I'm sure I must have missed this on previous postings, but what does SW stand for?? Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Treit Le 3 95 Oct 1912 Date: 3 Oct 95 12:01:57 From: Treit Le Subject: Classic vs. Disco Hi all, I'm new to this list and do not own an LR. But am actively seeking to rectify the matter. I am trying to decide between a '96 Disco and and '95 Classic. I lean towards the Classic, but wonder about the 25 year-old design vs. the 6 year-old design and the 4.0 engine. I live in New York City and intend to drive about 25,000 pothole laden miles a year for 4 years. Is either vehicle more or less likely to hold up. I had read that the 3.9 had head gasket problems at about 60-80k miles. What is resale value like at 100k miles? Off-roading would not be an issue. I assume that either one would be great for driving up unpaved Vermont mountain roads in the winter. From (Tom Rowe) Tue Oct 03 12:17:11 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 12:17:11 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: mail to Alan richer Returned On Tue, 3 Oct 95 12:26:15 you wrote: >---- message ---- >Error transferring to GOLD/CAM/M/LOTUS mail.box; Database is corrupt -- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Content-Description: RFC822 >To: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus >Alan, >Try washing the seals in something like Ajax. I know that when [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >(and it seems logical) the seals are the same way. Let me know if it >works. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 03 10:14:30 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 10:14:30 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: D90 SW John Brabyn writes: >On Mon, 2 Oct 1995 jpappa01@interserv.com wrote: D90 SW. * Full carpeting and interior (headliner/side panels) standard. [ truncated by lro-lite (was 9 lines)] * A/C still dealer-installed option. * No official MSRP as of yet. >Jim -- sorry to be ignorant; I'm sure I must have missed this on previous postings, but what does SW stand for?? Station Wagon, of course :) Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From David Rosenbaum Tue Oct 3 10:45:32 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:45:32 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Adding gauges to D90 At the recent "all British field meet" in Portland OR, I picked up a Smiths gauge that reads oil pressure and water temperature on one face (2 needles, each using 1/2 the face) which looks about the same size as my D90's temp gauge. Have any of you added gauges to your D90? In looking at the shop manual, it looks as though info from the temp gauge is used by other systems (I had thought that I might replace the D90 temp gauge with the Smiths water temp/oil pressure gauge. I suppose I could still do it if I left the D90 temp gauge hooked up, but just stuffed behind the instrument panel, if there's room.) Are there additional ports to hook up oil pressure and water temp sensors, or do they get "piggy-backed" onto existing ports? Thank-you in advance for your ideas. David Rosenbaum '94 D90 (still un-named!) From (Tom Rowe) Tue Oct 03 12:48:14 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 12:48:14 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: mail to Alan richer Returned Sorry, all. The major truncated the hell out of my message, didn't think I had that many commented lines. Here it is again. >Error transferring to GOLD/CAM/M/LOTUS mail.box; Database is corrupt -- Cannot allocate space ---- message ---- Content-Type: Message/rfc822 Content-Description: RFC822 Alan, Try washing the seals in something like Ajax. I know that when painting Airfix minatures (the little plastic soldiers and suchlike) you have to wash them to get the paint to permantly adhere. Perhap (and it seems logical) the seals are the same way. Let me know if it >works. Are you getting your mail Alan? Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 3 95 Oct EDT 1913 Date: 3 Oct 95 13:49:46 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: bodgered mail to me I know, folks....they can't seem to make it work right all the time. If anyone needs to contact me directly, I can be reached at richer@village.com. aj"I am # 6"r P.S.: If that doesn't make sense, watch "The Prisoner"....-ajr From Trefor Delve Tue Oct 03 19:40:00 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 19:40:00 GMT From: Trefor Delve Subject: Re:Adding gauges to D90 FAO, David Rosenbaum, The gauge(s) you describe sound similar to those used on the MG Miget. If that is the case, the temperature information is relayed by a thin pipe carrying mercury (thermometer principle). May be difficult fitting this to a Defender just by virtue of the fact that the lead (if you have it) may not reach the appropriate point on the engine. However, if the gauge you have has an electrical temperature input, then I'm barking up completely the wrong tree. Trefor tdelve@nectech.co.uk From maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Tue Oct 3 12:24:14 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 12:24:14 -0700 From: maddeng@Apple.com (gary madden) Subject: Re:Problem Cardboard ..chopsticks? Thank you grasshopper, for words of widsom. Mine keeps falling down, also. Single cheapest-looking, corner-cutting component on the vehicle. Personally I would like to replace cardbroad with something a bit more substantial, a bit more Land Rover-ish. Unfortunately the dealer says the '95 redesign (molded plastic) can't be retrofitted. Gary Madden maddeng@Apple.com 1994 D90, green roys@cup.hp.com >From: Leland J Roys >Subject: Problem Cardboard [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] >1994 Def-90 (Red) >------------------------------ From David Rosenbaum Tue Oct 3 12:28:20 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:28:20 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re:Adding gauges to D90 Dear Trefor, Thank-you for your reply. I suspect that the gauge is mechanical because it looks *old*. Also I don't have the tube that goes to the temp. part (I thought there might be a generic solution). I do have the tubing that goes to the oil gauge part.... I'll have to look at it more carefully when I get home, regarding the temp. part. Perhaps this is an excuse to start frequenting junk-yards (something that I was always doing when the '55 Chevy and '66 IHC Scout were my "daily drivers") Rainy season in Seattle (Oct-May) *is* the best time of year to trudge around rusty relics, with the mud ankle-deep. No crowds, no bugs, no risk of sun-burn. Best wishes, David From David Rosenbaum Tue Oct 3 12:59:25 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 12:59:25 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re:Problem Cardboard On Tue, 3 Oct 1995, gary madden wrote: > ..chopsticks? Thank you grasshopper, for words of widsom. Mine keeps > falling down, also. Single cheapest-looking, corner-cutting component on > the vehicle. Personally I would like to replace cardbroad with something a > bit more substantial, a bit more Land Rover-ish. Unfortunately the dealer > says the '95 redesign (molded plastic) can't be retrofitted. Mine, too. Not only is it ugly, but there's a ton of *electrical* stuff behind, which make me nervous every time I see it in back of the sagging cardboard: what if it gets WET back there? One reason I don't "hose out" the interior. From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Oct 03 16:08:26 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 16:08:26 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Mid Atlantic Beer Fest Greetings Fellow Roverites, Finelee the server here's up n' runnin, so's that ah kin tell y'all 'bout them Lan Rovers! Yee ha, what a blast. Ok enough small talk, blah blah blah, there were lots of good-lookin trucks (sorry; Land-Rovers) out there, saw some interesting set-ups, might have to try some myself. Took Miss Lucky out on the trials course, with a little trepidation, but she did fine and made it through with only a minor scratch and a lost chrome piece off one of those silly sidemarker lights. Went out on a run in Quentin Aspin's 80 inch, and realized that I had been maybe going a tad fast. oh well. His slow, steady driving enabled us to enjoy the sights, which included my lost piece of chrome, and a certain arboreal(tree) deformation that looked surprisingly like a "johnson". This was pointed out by the female member of the crew, who promptly ordered one of us out to strike a pose... someone had a camera, and someone else had some big cohones, and the rest is history... We decided right there that instead of "Built Like A Locomotive", next year's theme should be "Hung Like A Tree". Anyways, all involved should withold details to protect the not-so-innnocent. The 101 Forward Control Crew provided fun rides and exciting banter as well as comical clown-like activities like driving in reverse with someone working underneath and repeatedly firing their 10-Guage shotgun cannon. Neat toy that thing, no Rover should be without one. The train ride provided lots of time to show off our collection of unusual Land Rover parts catalogs, which make great conversation pieces. Also we fed Sandy a steady stream of jokes so he could repeat them five seconds later:-) Got to meet some of the OVLR guys and other list people, sorry Chris Stevens and Nate Dunsmore I meant to try to find you guys but I got too wrapped up in my beer... Watched with sadness as NOTAJEEP tore off one of their NOTRECESSED 110 door handles. Ugly. My roommate and Rover pal Will Hadley and his SO followed me down in his IIa, which despite his constant paranoia made it in one piece, and retained all its gear oil (on the rear door, but it still retained it). Actually it looks like a pretty serious leak from the front of the gearbox, I watched with amazement as a nearly steady stream of oil came out of his flywheel housing. We'll be having that out soon won't we Will? Any ideas/advice about this one will be welcomed of course. Looking forward to next year's event and trying the course in 1st gear. (Didn't quite have 1st this time 'round) Ok, that's enough prattle, stop reading this and GET BACK TO WORK!! Cheers, David R Bobeck dbobeck@ushmm.org '72 SeriesIII 88. Miss Lucky From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Oct 03 16:13:06 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 16:13:06 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Overdrives. Fairy/Superwinch are the same thing. Atlantic British may still offer Santana overdrives which claim a larger oil capacity. The Bearmach O/D also holds more oil and is about $100 US more than Superwench. Sort of hard to find over here? but you shouldn't have a problem. Apparently the oil heats up and causes pressure which can force the oil out of the unit, causing it to dry up and then break. Therefore the larger oil capacity could be considered an advantage. I guess it just gives you more time before it dries up:-). Dixon says you can drill and tap the top of the Superwinch unit and install an axle breather thing to help let off the pressure. Sounds good to me, anybody tried any of this stuff? Dreaming of going the speed limit, David R. Bobeck 72 Series III 88 dbobeck@ushmm.org From Robert Watson (CNA) Tue Oct 3 13:38:44 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 95 13:38:44 TZ From: Robert Watson (CNA) Subject: RE: Problem Cardboard I haven't seen the cardboard on the D-90, but the Disco has a bunch of cardboard under the dash that looks like it could serve as a good pattern for some sheet metal (aluminum, since it's a rover?) or plastic covers. (With insulation on the "wire" side to prevent shorting). I'm curious as to how long this cardboard will last after a winter of being kicked with muddy and snowy boots. -- Bob W. '95 Disco ---------- ...chopsticks? Thank you grasshopper, for words of widsom. Mine keeps | falling down, also. Single cheapest-looking, corner-cutting component on | the vehicle. Personally I would like to replace cardbroad with something a | bit more substantial, a bit more Land Rover-ish. Unfortunately the dealer | says the '95 redesign (molded plastic) can't be retrofitted. From MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV Tue Oct 3 19:21:01 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:21:01 -0400 (EDT) From: MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV Subject: Land Rover for Sale To any interested Land Rover enthusiast: For Sale: 1967 SIIA LWB, LHD, three door Land Rover recently imported directly from England -- quite rare for the U.S. Some of its many features are: Newly rebuilt engine by rover specialists in England - 0 miles Completely refurbished frame - mint Series III transmission Recently refurbished drivetrain - 5000 miles Hardtop with new roofrack and side ladder Soft top with hoops Salisbury Rear differential - mint New Front Defender highback seats - mint New (6) Rear Defender seats - mint New safety belts - mint New high quality sound proofing - mint New carpeting - mint New NATO brush paint - $100/gal New heavy duty tires - mint New brakes - mint New ring and pinion gears (not installed) F/R - mint I purchased this vehicle directly from England and have all the required import documents. I purchased this Rover for use as a geologist because of I travel in some very rough country where I sometimes have need to exit in a hurry (drug growers don't take kindly to strangers who work for the government). As such a PTO winch/bumper was originally included in the purchase price but has not yet arrived from England. Unfortunately, even though I purchased this Rover with intentions of using it for my job as a government geologist, the government is now threatening to lay me off (or furlough me for months at a time). Because I purchased this with a home equity loan, I am now have to sell it to ensure that I can pay back the loan. This Land Rover was appraised at $13,000. However, due to my desperation I am willing to let it go for considerably less. I am not interested in making a profit -- only avoiding a loss. If anyone is interested, please call me at: (202) 260-8921 - work (301) 349-5712 - h mfield@mohawk.wic.epa.gov - email Thanx everyone. Malcolm S. Field From Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> 03 95 Oct EDT 1920 Date: 03 Oct 95 20:56:56 EDT From: Cliff Kavanaugh <76262.1154@compuserve.com> Subject: Newspaper article MidAtlantic Rally Tuesday Oct 3, 1995 edition of The Richmond Times Dispatch has an extensive article in section D concerning the Mid Atlantic Land Rover Rally. Almost 2 full pages and 5 big color photos. The Blue Range Rover (still nameless) in the front of the line to the teeter totter is mine. There is a great photo of Tat Masumoto's black Disco; balanced on the totter, as well. The article mentions Tat , Sandy Grice the organizer and Nancy and Mike McCaig the owners of Penland Farm (nice photo of Mike McCaig). A photo of Scott Miller and his Series 1 Woody from PA made it in too. Also mentioned is Dixon Kenner, Diesel Bob McCullough, Alex Barron, Bill Malone, Bill Maniscalco, Kendall Wilson and Land Rover Dealer Greg Walker from Richmond Va. Great Photo of Richard Holmes seated on top of his '67 Dormobile. Contact Richmond Times Dispatch 1 800 468 3382. For copies of photos Call 804 649 6285. Fax 804 775 8059 . If anyone from BRLROC reads this please have Tat forward his mailing address to me - 76262.1154@compuserve.com. Cheers, Cliff Kavanaugh . 1988 RR (still nameless) From TONY YATES Wed Oct 4 08:40:03 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:40:03 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Movie sightings Yet more movie sightings - yeh, well, there ain't much else to do after dark in Port Hedland except watch vids: Black Eagle with Van Damme and Kosugi is a crap movie but has a feast of sightings, mainly in the first 20 mins so you don't have to watch it all. A battered 109 soft top, a neat 2 door RR and a very neat red SIII 109 Safari in County trim. Late for dinner - starring the guy who played Boony in China Beach has another very neat 109 safari (II or IIA), plus a RR glimpse. Cheers. ========================================================== () ( ) () Tony Yates ( ) ( ) ( ) Bureau of Meteorology ( )( ) ( ) Port Hedland ( ) )( ) Western Australia ( ) ) -------- ------------ ph: (091) 401 350 \\\**\\**\ fax: (091) 401 100 \***\*\ \\*\ email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au \\ ========================================================== From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Oct 03 21:55:58 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Oct 1995 21:55:58 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Defender 110 owners with problem Bill admonishes...... > Don't bother writing about it here, this list isn't for whinging and > moaning Gee, Bill... First, we couldn't talk about beer... Now we can't whine and moan... OK... my overdrive whines aFrom WASSILI@AMC.UVA.NL Wed Oct 04 09:14:14 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 09:14:14 +0001 From: WASSILI@AMC.UVA.NL Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello Roverers, I've just bought a new Discovery Commercial 300 TDi, blinded side windows after the front seats' and no back seats, '95 model and I've also bought an original LandRover Discovery rubber floor mat set ( great for muddy feet! :-) ). The floor mats for the rear passengers are useless to me. Someone interested? If so E-mail me at wassili@amc.uva.nl ______ | ## ### #####\ |## ### ######\______ | ___\ | ___ \ |___/ \_______/ \ | ( 0 ) ( 0 ) Roy Wassili From Richard Jones Wed Oct 4 9:42:42 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 9:42:42 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Subject: Classic vs. Disco Treit Le writes: > I lean towards the Classic, but wonder about the 25 year-old design > vs. the 6 year-old design and the 4.0 engine. I live in New York City and Peel back the 6 year old body, look real close and you will spot the same 25 year old design hiding underneath. > intend to drive about 25,000 pothole laden miles a year for 4 years. Is either > vehicle more or less likely to hold up. If the current trend continues the Classic will have the highest resale vale. Late Classics are becoming very sort after, particularly if current predictions hold and the last one comes off the line in February. > I had read that the 3.9 had head gasket > problems at about 60-80k miles. What is resale value like at 100k miles? If correctly maintanined they are more than capable of 200,000 trouble free miles. Also remember that the 3.9 and 4.0 are basically the same engine. > Off-roading would not be an issue. I assume that either one would be great for > driving up unpaved Vermont mountain roads in the winter. Who needs roads? __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From William Caloccia Wed Oct 04 05:53:52 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 05:53:52 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Defender 110 owners with problem > Now we can't whine and moan... As if I could stop a bunch of British car owners from doing that ? > OK... my overdrive whines and my old lady moans... Howzat??? :-) Actually there was an excellent short animation called 'Moanologue' on Ch.4 (LWT) Monday evening where this guy's wife....(well you can figure it out). The list is, as always, a place to ask for advice, swap war stories and do all that kind of stuff. However, as before when talking about independent parts vendors, my comments are that if you've got a problem with a vendor, then fine, ask for people who've had problems, but collect the information off line, both as a courtesey to the list, (and sometimes it is better to keep some things less public). Then maybe come back later and summarize the info, as appropriate. Asking for advice (on dealing with a vendor) or experiences (of how the vendor dealt with problems in the past) is a bit different than asking for a list of problems. How to go about resolving the problem is the real question. In my view, that is perfectly fine, and better etiquette (on or off the net). ----- I think you lot know I don't censor the list, barring mailer glitches or malicious e-mail(er)s. [Not to mention there are enough mature and sharp tongues out there to let folks know when they're out of line]. Nor am I interested in censoring it or moderating it. (Doing either, as Prodigy found out, has some definite legal repercussions, as the court then views it as 'publishing' and there is liability for content.) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net http://www.senie.com/billc/ 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, because |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R ul N H '72 Range Rover From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Wed Oct 04 05:02:59 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 05:02:59 -0500 (CDT) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: D90 SW future market Any opinions (and rationale) on whether the D90 SW will hold its value as well as a D110? I would like to trade up from a 5 spd Disco to the D90 SW (which I wanted in the first place but there wasn't a hardtop when it came out) and am looking for rationalizations to go along with such an obviously logical financial choice. (!) Henry B. Wilson http://vumclib.mc.vanderbilt.edu/~wilsonhb '59 AHY 100-6 '94 Disco "The Healey's clean; the Rover's filthy. Life is perfect." From RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Wed Oct 4 09:52:30 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:52:30 +0000 From: RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest >> From: Treski@aol.com >> Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 23:48:15 -0400 >> Attn all 110 owners: I f you have had a problem of any kind with your rover >> that was fixed under warranty, please write about it here. ex getting all >> 4 doors replaced because of a bad paint job. thank you >Don't bother writing about it here, this list isn't for whinging and moaning, >just send your moaning mail directly to 'Treski@aol.com', or you'd probably >get better results if you wrote to the manufacturer's agent and told 'em >directly how much you liked the vehicle, but how disappointed you were >that xxxx. >Cheers, >-Bill I agree. If the Hollywood and Aspen type street cruisers who own the majority of the NAS 110 s out there are unhappy with the mirror effect of the paint perhaps they would care to pass down these vehicles to those of us who will apppreciate them for something more than their Schwarzenegger-Chic. From Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) 04 1995 Oct GMT 1915 Date: 04 Oct 1995 15:33:58 GMT From: Frederick_O._Ellsworth@bcsmac.org (Frederick O. Ellsworth) Subject: Lack of Power on Startup Hi all, I'm still working on this lack of power on startup in our '71 IIA 88" with 2.25 petrol engine. I can't figure it out and its getting much worse as the nights get chillier. Yesterday morning when I went out and started it I did something I guess I'd never done before (or the problem is just getting gradually worse). I have to use the choke to get it started no matter what the temp is outside, so I pulled out the choke and cranked it up. It started ok, but then I punched the gas a couple of times. Each time I punched the gas the engine *almost* died, but as soon as I let of the gas it returned to a normal idle. Again, as soon as it warmed up the problem seemed to go away and the engine ran great at all speeds. All I can think of is some sort of vaccuum leak, but I sprayed carb cleaner all over the darn thing and there was no change of idle. Besides, wouldn't a vaccum leak demonstrate symptoms at any temperature? Any suggestions greatly appreciated. Fred - sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered). From Easton Trevor Wed Oct 04 11:15:00 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 11:15:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Winches etc Regarding the use of winches, electric/pto drum/capstan When using the winch to move another vehicle/object the advantage of the capstan winch is that when the line is fully reeled in it is only necessary to flip it off the drum and change ends to start the next pull. Also the amount of pull can be easily regulated by the degree of tailing (how hard you pull on the rope coming off the drum). And ropes are a lot kinder to hands than steel cables (OK so they stretch more, I can live with that). Trevor From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Oct 04 08:18:10 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 08:18:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Anyone ever install a "Lock Right" locker? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Anyone ever install a "Lock Right" locker? Hello all! I just received a Lock Right locker for my '87 RR. Has anyone ever installed one before? It doesn't appear to be too difficult... (Famous last words!) I don't have the factory manual for the RR, but I do have the one from the Disco, should be the same for the differential. Any "special tools" needed? Will I need a new gasket(s?) for the center section or axle seals? Can I just use the "blue goo" or "red goo" gasket junk without a gasket? Steven Gross, I understand you have a "Thorsen" locker? What's the difference? Did you install it yourself? Please advise! Thanks, Dave (soon to be locked) Brown #=====# #========# -------,___ _______ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ / /__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\___/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} ( ) ( ) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") $8500 bargain Soon with locker! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ |} thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From JFisk1120@aol.com Wed Oct 4 11:22:39 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:22:39 -0400 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Subject: USA Today Article At the top of today's edition (October 4th) of the "Life" section of "USA Today", it shows a picture of a new Range Rover with the caption: LEARNING TO ROVE....As the Land Rover leaps in popularity, schools are springing up to teach what these automotive billy goats can do. So be sure and catch the article tomorrow, Thursday, October 5th in "USA Today". Should be interesting. Jan Fisk Springfield, Missouri From Jeff Gauvin Wed Oct 4 9:36:13 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 95 9:36:13 MDT From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: RE: Problem Cardboard From Easton Trevor Wed Oct 04 11:55:00 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 11:55:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Temperature Gauges Trefor Delve wrote: The gauge(s) you describe sound similar to those used on the MG Miget. If that is the case, the temperature information is relayed by a thin pipe carrying mercury (thermometer principle). Actually , Trefor, the temperature gauge is a pressure gauge. It measures temperature by measuring the vapour pressure of the fluid in the sensing bulb (usually alcohol) . Often on older gauges they stop functioning because hte capillary has developed a leak and the fluid has all evaporated. A good instument shop can often find and fix the leak and refill the bulb. Mechanical gauges beat electical everytime. They don't need power to work and if correctly calibrated in the beginning they stay that way for an eternity. Trevor Easton Miss Golightly just back from the Mid Atlantic. Just love those winding back roads in Virginia. Felt almost like the homeland. Now if only you drove on the right (ie left) side of the road. From Easton Trevor Wed Oct 04 12:04:00 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 12:04:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Temp Gauge David See my post to digest re temp gauges. Does your gauge have what looks like a small capillary tube coming from the back of the temperature portion? probably the tube and bulb were severed by an ill advised PO, but all is not lost. See if you can find an industrial instrument shop in the neighbourhood. They may be able to graft a new tube and bulb to your gauge. The original fluid is not allowed any more so what they fill it with will have different characteristics, just ask them to provide a calibration chart. So long as you know what the actual temperature is it doesn't really matter what the gauge reads, does it. After all most modern (electrocrap) gauges just have green yellow and red bands with no numbers. Regards Trevor From Trefor Delve Wed Oct 04 17:05:00 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 17:05:00 GMT From: Trefor Delve Subject: Temperature Gauges Trevor, I stand corrected. Thankyou. Trefor. tdelve@nectech.co.uk From L.Batten@lse.ac.uk Wed Oct 04 15:43:03 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 15:43:03 GMT From: L.Batten@lse.ac.uk Subject: Series Geraboxes Dear All, I'm looking to replace my gearbox on my Series IIA with one from a Series III - I really need the benefit of a fully synched box. Is this a straight forward task - does anyone know of any pitfalls I can avoid ? Thanks in advance. Leigh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leigh Batten London School of Economics E-mail - L.BATTEN@LSE.AC.UK Room A240 Tel: - 0171-955-6714 Houghton Street London Mobile - 0378-134-660 WC2A 2AE 1966 IIa SWB - "Janie" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From L.Batten@lse.ac.uk Wed Oct 04 15:30:35 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 15:30:35 GMT From: L.Batten@lse.ac.uk Subject: Series Geraboxes Dear All, I'm looking to replace my gearbox on my Series IIA with one from a Series III - I really need the benefit of a fully synched box. Is this a straight forward task - does anyone know of any pitfalls I can avoid ? Thanks in advance. Leigh ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Leigh Batten London School of Economics E-mail - L.BATTEN@LSE.AC.UK Room A240 Tel: - 0171-955-6714 Houghton Street London Mobile - 0378-134-660 WC2A 2AE 1966 IIa SWB - "Janie" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From Chris Haslam Wed Oct 4 12:43:35 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 12:43:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam Subject: RR: ECU gets RPMs from Coil Negative From Duncan Brown Wed Oct 04 12:45:43 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 12:45:43 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: IIA to III transmission swap Leigh, > I'm looking to replace my gearbox on my Series IIA with one from a > Series III - I really need the benefit of a fully synched box. > Is this a straight forward task - does anyone know of any pitfalls I > can avoid ? It is not completely straightforward, since the III had the clutch slave cylinder on the opposite side of the bellhousing and used a completely different release mechanism and input shaft. One way is to simply deal with the differences. Another way is to take a SIII box and strip all the front stuff off of it, putting your IIA stuff back in place, leaving you with an "all synchro IIA transmission." That is what I'm currently running. I believe the complete list of "stuff" is: -- front gear on layshaft that mates with gear on input shaft -- input shaft -- entire front end of transmission which is more or less: -- bellhousing -- input shaft bearing -- every bit and piece of release mechanism I've got a couple of thousand miles on this setup and it's working fine. After 5 years of double-clutched downshifts into second, I'm having trouble remembering I don't need to do that. And the throws for 1st and 2nd are disconcertingly SHORT compared to what I'm used to. But it's a really nice change, for the non-purist. Duncan From (Tom Rowe) Wed Oct 04 11:52:09 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 11:52:09 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: Temp Gauge >David >See my post to digest re temp gauges. Does your gauge have what looks like a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >lost. See if you can find an industrial instrument shop in the >neighbourhood. They may be able to graft a new tube and bulb to your gauge. Snip Nissonger Corp in New York can rebuild these guages. I don't have their number with me, but someone else on the list knows it. Maybe they can post it. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Duncan Brown Wed Oct 04 12:52:19 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 12:52:19 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: temp/oil guages All, Nisongers in NY does a nice job of rebuilding those combo oil/temp gauges. (914-381-1952, -1953 fax) Mine had the "missing secret stuff" problem where everything was there but it just didn't work. Not sure what they'd do if you were missing the whole tube, bulb, and big nut. It cost $100 to repair, and came back looking like a BRAND NEW instrument. The bezel was painted, it had new gaskets in it, the tube was brand new, they even included a new little gasket for where the oil pressure pipe fits on. The oil pressure pipe hooks on to an adapter on the end of the oil filter adapter (same place the wire that goes to the green lights hooks in.) Yes, it is actually feeding engine oil up to your dash to measure the pressure. Make sure you get that connection on and sealed right!! The water sensing bulb hooks in right below the thermostat in the head casting. Which is to say that for a D90 owner, this gauge would make a nice conversation piece but little else I'm afraid... Duncan, now able to see what temp his engine is for the first time since he bought it! From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 4 95 Oct EDT 1912 Date: 4 Oct 95 12:49:46 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Lack of Power on Startup Re: Lack of power: Are you sure that your timing and so forth are correct? I can easily see this being a symptom of excessively lean mixture, or perhaps a clogging fuel filter. Also, check the idle jet, if it's partially clogged, you could have the lean mix which would clear as soon as you got running on the road. Alan From "John B. Friedman" Wed Oct 4 14:05:09 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 95 14:05:09 -0500 From: "John B. Friedman" Subject: Anti-Gush Discovery oil change #2 I experimented today with a technique for avoiding the gush of oil when first pulling the plug on Disco oil pan. The following worked well. Buy a 24 quart waste basket at Walmart. The model I got was made by Sterilite in MA, but a Rubbermaid product or the same dimensions would be fine. Scribe or draw a line on the front and sides 9 inches up from the bottom of the can.( this for the rectangular cross section model I got) Then with a carpenter's saw and snips, saw across the face of the basket and down the sides. Then cut away with snips the material so that you have a 9 inch high can with a full height flap up the back. With the snips or a round file make nice radii where the flap joins the sides, so when you flex the flap it won't break off after repeated use. This can will now fit under the car. Place the flap so it comes up behind the long I- beam Panhard bar which locates the front axle in the frame.You want the flap to protect the tire and brake from the gushing oil. The center of the can should be more or less under the drain. Then when you take the plug out, the oil will gush, hit the flap and fall into the can and not get all over.You may have to retrieve your plug out of the oil. I pulled the thing out after most of the oil had drained and used a flat pan for the rest and the oil filter too. But maybe the flap could be used to protect tie rods and differential housing when you unscrew filter as well. I presume this will also work on Defender but as you may have more clearance there, you can cut the sides a little lower or higher. John Friedman From Ray Harder Wed Oct 4 15:52:58 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 15:52:58 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Harder Subject: Re: RoverWeb last update? On Wed, 4 Oct 1995, ppnickb wrote: > Subject: RoverWeb last update? > My name is Nick Baggarly and I'm with the Land Rover Owners Assoc. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] > Nick C. Baggarly > '66SIIA 88 (Seymour) '64 Dormobile > Los Gatos, Cale nick, regarding your message and the roverweb page: i am a member of lroa -- keep up the good work. at one time in my life i had time and i took on the roverweb with good intentions. work has consumed me and I have not had the time to keep it current. i feel guilty, but it does not appear that things will change in the future for me. i could pass it along to someone else (thats how i acquired it -- greg hiner - hiner@mail.utexas.edu did almost all the work). or i could solicite help in keeping it current (i am the sysadmin on a medium sized unix system and i could let some users sign in to do some web updating...) anyway, feel free to point to it and if you have ideas as to how to help me get/keep current, send em along. i always look forward to the aluminum workhorse -- read it from cover to cover on the first night. ray harder -- 61 SIIa 88 named lulu. From Leland J Roys Wed Oct 4 13:57:45 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 95 13:57:45 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Def-90 Oil change Oil Changes: Well, with all this talk about a spill free oil changes on the Disco/Def-90, I have finally found the perfect solution. Because I found it impossible to stop the gallons of oil flowing on my garage floor, I now just put my lips over the oil spigot on my Def-90, I then drink all the old oil from my beloved Def-90 (and enjoy it as well), this leaves no spill and I also do not need dinner that night. Leland Roys roys@cup.hp.com Cupertino,Ca 1994 Def-90 (Red) From growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Wed Oct 4 14:09:51 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 14:09:51 -0700 From: growl@hsmpk14a-101.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Series Geraboxes > Dear All, > I'm looking to replace my gearbox on my Series IIA with one from a [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > Thanks in advance. > Leigh Why not convert your IIa box to syncro, the you have the best of both? R, bg From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 04 95 Oct EDT 1919 Date: 04 Oct 95 19:01:45 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: RR gearbox probs All, Anyone comment on this. I just took the RR for a quick off-roading. I tried to get the thing into low range and nothing happened when I pushed the lever forward. It appears that it is stuck in HIGH range, luckily !!! Anyone had a similar prob, not getting into low range. I suspect something has snapped or broken, stopping the lever to engage low range, the diff lock still works. Mark From TONY YATES Thu Oct 5 07:26:37 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:26:37 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: RR gearbox probs On 4 Oct 1995, Mark Talbot wrote: > get the thing into low range and nothing happened when I pushed the lever > forward. It appears that it is stuck in HIGH range, luckily !!! Anyone had a Does the lever move freely? If so I would suspect a broken linkage, if it was an internal problem the lever would be stuck/hard to move?? Just a suggestion. ========================================================== () ( ) () Tony Yates ( ) ( ) ( ) Bureau of Meteorology ( )( ) ( ) Port Hedland ( ) )( ) Western Australia ( ) ) -------- ------------ ph: (091) 401 350 \\\**\\**\ fax: (091) 401 100 \***\*\ \\*\ email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au \\ ========================================================== From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Wed Oct 04 20:55:17 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 20:55:17 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: My new Range Rover by Robin Well, i just got my new Range Rover home. Gorgeous C registration (for the live at home Brits unlike us in Canada) four door jobbie with right hand drive and 3 spoke wheels. Came from Japan via Germany, and soemwhat reduced in size at 1/24. I think that this one will end up i9n a Gulf war colour scheme with the rear windows painted out and the black chevron on either side as per LRO articles b my mucker Bob Morrison. I say by way of German y as Revell in Germany are repackaging this Ayoshima kit and sticking a couple of big bucks on the price tag. Thankfully I won a big M88A1 kit at a convention and swapped it with the local retailer for the Rangie.. Well considering I only paid a fiver for my raffle ticket and got a armoured recovery vehicle worth over 60 cdn and swapped it for the 64 dollar (plus taxes ) revell kit I thought I was doing real well. I have an older range rover on the go which will when completed be either an RAF police vehcile or a civy police unit. Havenet decided yet. Initial inspection and inhalation reveal that the kit is really well moulded and the tyres provided are Bridgestone mud duellers. Very little flash on the kit parts and a well executed detail level. There are decals for the walnut on the dash and all. The clear parts are really sharp too. The decals are very good for register and colour, they have declas for the hubs aswell! choice of uk C reg licence plates or show roon "Land Rover " oval and range rover words. Buy this sucker now and put it away for a real long winter. Why not ask the Mrs for this under the tree? Revell Germany's kit number is 07373 and should be available under the ayoshima (spelling suspect there ) name aswell for a few bucks less. TTFN Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Thu Oct 5 18:23:14 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 18:23:14 +1200 From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Subject: inqury >To: LRO-Owner@uk.stratus.com >From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >2 queries >1. which is the correct address to send email re Land Rovers? , I will cross post this to what appears to me may be possable A.D.s . could seem kind soul please put me rFrom cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Oct 05 01:12:46 1995 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 01:12:46 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: US Aftermarket Parts US Rovers, The Land-Rover 4x4 Connection Aftermarket Parts list for Series Land Rovers has grown to over 30 items (big deal!), and now includes High Performance Products with manufacturer listings for the Mallory distributor, Weber carburetor, Pierce manifold, Clifford header, Rimmer Bros. SS exhaust system, and Centerforce clutch (BIG DEAL!! :) Author/listmaster Mike Hoskins of Mid-America Rover, Kansas City Phone/Fax 816-763-3797, invites comments, corrections, and particularily additions of proven aftermarket parts to the list. Find the list at http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html -Michael Carradine Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com '65 IIA 88 _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Richard Jones Thu Oct 5 10:03:53 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:03:53 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Subject: Re: Classic vs. Disco John Brabyn writes: > Richard -- is it true that after stating the Classic would be available > into the forseeable future, Land Rover is discontinuing it in February? My understanding (some fact, some speculation) is that the production future of the Calssic will be reviewed at the end of the year, but if no further "fleet type" contracts have been received production will stop in February. > Hard to believe people are actually buying that new nondescript looking > thing they have transferred the Range Rover name to!!! The New Range Rover has been around for 12 months now, and is being produced at I believe 400 units per week (against 70-80 Classics), all of which must be going somewhere. There is a lot of re-construction going on at the Factory currently and they are extremely short of space. I suspect that the thinking is that the Classic line space can be better utilised by a modern less labour intensive (read here quicker build per unit) line building something else. > (Of course I'm not at all biased!) Looks like the new Range Rover's long term success depends more on its reliabilty than its looks. If at 2-4 years of age the technology is still all working reliably it will succeed, if not keep that Classic of yours in good shape it will become even more collectable. __ _ __ Apricot Computer Limited ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Tel: (+44) 121 717 7171 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park Fax: (+44) 121 717 0123 / <_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Richard Jones United Kingdom Email: richardj@apricot.mee.com From jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Thu Oct 5 22:29:57 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 22:29:57 +1200 From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Subject: oops er sorry about those other two messages, I think I have got the hang of now regards john :-} From Easton Trevor Thu Oct 05 07:58:00 1995 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 07:58:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: LRO Digest Syndrome The syndrome strikes again! Just back from Mid Atlantic and catching up on my mail I read of front prop shaft sleeves that shed themselves from the shaft. I go home and while checking bodily fluids what do I see but a front prop shaft with two hose clips and some tatty rubber bits attached. HAVE YOU CHECKED YOUR SLEEVE LATELY. If you read it here it will probably happen to you. Trevor Easton and Miss Golightly with a naked shaft (oohh, la,la) From Mike Rooth Thu Oct 5 14:06:28 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 14:06:28 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: attempt four > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)] > (Loftys) fuel tank, does anybody else feel this way? would there be a > >Subject: Keep practising,you're getting better:-) I beleive rear mounted tanks are available for 109 models.May be necessary to fit a different exhaust system though,I'm not sure. 'Course,you *could* always change to diesel:-} Cheers Mike Rooth From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Oct 05 07:34:05 1995 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 07:34:05 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: '87 RR Alternator, and Lock-Right lockers. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: '87 RR Alternator, and Lock-Right lockers. Chris, You asked if I had checked the voltage, and I'm embarrassed to say, no. I have a digital VOM that I could have used, but I never suspected the alternator. As I wrote before, my only clue that this *might* be a concern was that at idle, the "charge" light glowed very dimly. (Only noticeable at night, and went off when you gave it some gas.) Nobody has responded to my question from yesterday, at least not that I've read in the digest yet. Anyone ever install a "Lock-Right" locker in a LR? Any hints? How difficult/easy?? Do I need new gaskets or can I use the "blue goo" or the "red goo" silicon type gasket maker/sealer. Thanks, P.S. A rover sighting from 2 weeks ago... I saw a tan (maybe white?) 109 in San Diego on the weekend of Sep. 23. Anyone on the "net"? #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") $8500 bargain #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Chris Haslam Thu Oct 5 10:58:30 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:58:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam Subject: Re: '87 RR Alternator, and Lock-Right lockers. > You asked if I had checked the voltage, and I'm embarrassed to say, no. Sorry I didn't pick up on your mention of the faint ignition light: I've been very busy (I am a lone consultant), and mental fatigue sets in after a while! I seem to think that I did mention "alternator", but I didn't have time to think thru the whys and wherefores. Glad to hear the RR is on the road and happy again. ...chris From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Thu Oct 5 08:48:15 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 08:48:15 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: Re: RR gearbox problems You wrote: From Danny Phillips Thu Oct 5 16:59:27 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 16:59:27 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest I am hoping that this note gets through, if it does the chap who is having problems with power when he puts his boot down, may i suggest that you check both the leads, and the fuel pump, i have had to sort this out on my iia and she now runs great. in fact she will out accelelerate a ferrari (well in a plowed feild anyway.) From Danny Phillips Thu Oct 5 17:13:17 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 17:13:17 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest By the way sorry if this is rude just butting in but, a chap was talking about max revs in a landie the other day. although no help to him i would just like to let you know what the final arguement in the triumph six club 'when does a piston reach maximum velocity' was. the chap wrote, 'a piston reaches max revs and max velocity in any engine when you are racing from the lights, miss second hit 12000rpm and the number four piston goes ballistic and number one is in your lap'. the editors comment was 'nuff said no more letters on this subject please'. makes me smile when i think about it and the guys in my lr club thought it was hilarious. p.s. sorry about the poor spelling and english, i speak as badly as i type... From John Brabyn Thu Oct 5 09:44:54 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:44:54 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Classic vs. Disco Thanks for the info about the Classic's future or lack thereof Richard. Hope my tongue in cheek remarks about the new RR didn't offend anyone -- I may even get one myself one day, you never know!! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From ShaunC8958@aol.com Thu Oct 5 13:56:01 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:56:01 -0400 From: ShaunC8958@aol.com Subject: The RR lean My '88 Range Rover leans noticeably to the right. The shocks are a bit old but the suspension seems otherwise in good repair. A mechanic says it's *supposed* to lean because the coil springs are different sizes on the right or left. But it seems to lean worse than it used to. Will new shocks help the lean? Or springs??? --Shaun Carrigan From John Brabyn Thu Oct 5 11:38:06 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:38:06 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: The RR lean On Thu, 5 Oct 1995 ShaunC8958@aol.com wrote: > My '88 Range Rover leans noticeably to the right. The shocks are a bit old > but the suspension seems otherwise in good repair. A mechanic says it's > *supposed* to lean because the coil springs are different sizes on the right > or left. But it seems to lean worse than it used to. Will new shocks help the > lean? Or springs??? This problem does seem to get worse with age -- personally I think the spring lengths were miscalculated by some engineer in Solihull!! New shocks won't make any difference, but new springs will. I replaced my rear ones with 2 new left hand rear springs -- being both the same length and slightly longer than the right hand ones. I haven't tried doing anything to the front yet -- but the above certainly helped. On the front there is almost an inch difference in the lengths, some of which may be needed to compensate for the slight off-center engine location. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Thu Oct 05 12:28:24 1995 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 12:28:24 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: US Made Leaf Springs!! =========================== HOT FLASH!!! =========================== US Rovers, Leaf springs for Series Land Rover and other vehicles are available right here in the US direct from the manufacturer Young's Springs, Inc. in Rutland, Vermont, Tel 802-773-7237. Bob Kirback at Young's Springs makes leaf springs for both the 88's and 109's. The springs are made from manganese based steel which has very good flexure and requires to remain oiled, while the Land Rover springs are water tempered. Kirback estimates a pair of 88 rear leaf springs cost about US$130, plus freight. Young's Springs, Inc. is listed in the the Land-Rover 4x4 Connection Aftermarket Parts list under High Performance Products. The complete list is maintained by author/listmaster Mike Hoskins of Mid-America Rover, Kansas City Phone/Fax 816-763-3797, who invites comments, corrections, and particularily additions of proven aftermarket parts to the list. Find the complete list at http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 5 95 Oct EDT 1915 Date: 5 Oct 95 15:29:01 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: The RR lean >My '88 Range Rover leans noticeably to the right. The shocks are a bit old >but the suspension seems otherwise in good repair. A mechanic says it's [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >lean? Or springs??? >--Shaun Carrigan First of all, never trust anything with coil springs...8*)... Actually, shocks have no loadbearing virtues - take'em out completely and all it'll do is bounce, not collapse. Sounds to me like you might have a cracked coil spring, or one's fatigued. What kind of shape is the control arm at the botom in? Bad bushing, maybe? -ajr From "Soren Vels Christensen" Thu Oct 5 20:45:46 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:45:46 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: attempt four In message Thu, 5 Oct 95 14:06:28 BST, Mike Rooth writes: : Keep practising,you're getting better:-) : I beleive rear mounted tanks are available for 109 models.May be necessary : to fit a different exhaust system though,I'm not sure. : 'Course,you *could* always change to diesel:-} Hello. Lawrence was suffering from incontinence last year, so i changed his 45l rear tank to a 73l stw type tank. All (i think) series Landies have holes in the rear x-member for this. Also (i think) all lwb's have posts to fit the front part of the tank. But they might be difficult to spot unless the frame is really clean. Get the big 73l tank. Mounts in the same points as the 45l. Also, get a filling tube with a cap and a cover that mounts on the inside of the body panel. You'll have to cut a hole in the panel as well. If a tank full of petrol explodes it doesn't matter where the tank is located. I haven't heard of exploding seat tanks in Land-Rovers yet. But i'm interested to learn if such an incident was ever recorded. rgds sv/aurens From Daniel Polak Thu Oct 5 21:42:00 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 95 21:42:00 +0100 From: Daniel Polak Subject: best off road Land Rover How do the different Land Rover models compare in off road performance? Is a Defender better than a Discovery? How good is a Range Rover? Where does my Lightweight fit in? Do the latest Land Rover models have the best off road performance or are they just more comfortable on the road? Has this been discussed before on this list (I've just been following it for a month or so)? I would assume that a short wheelbase coil spring model with a powerful engine would be best off road. What is the consensus (if any) on these issues? Daniel From (Tom Rowe) Thu Oct 05 15:48:01 1995 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 15:48:01 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: vanity I'm in the early stages of putting up a web site here, but I've done one of the most important parts and posted a photo of the Antichrist. It's not very good resolution because it was only done with a flatbed scanner. Eventually I'll put up a better one. For now, if you're interested in one of the reasons my sig is what it is look at http://www.cdr.wisc.edu/staff/tomr.htm Actually, as I mentioned, this is a new site. It's running on OS/2. I did have a problem with some browsers not getting a proper link. If it looks weird (the page, not my Land Rover) I'd appreciate feedback (by direct e-mail, NOT via this list). Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 05 95 Oct EDT 1919 Date: 05 Oct 95 19:59:59 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: IIA to III transmission swap >> Is this a straight forward task - does anyone know of any pitfalls I >> can avoid ? > take a SIII box and strip all the front stuff off of it, putting > your IIA stuff back in place, leaving you with an "all synchro IIA > transmission." I know Land Rover Owners have a propensity to make simple things complicated - why else would they buy such a vehicle in the first place - , but unless you (and the potential SIG) enjoy having a dismantled gearbox spread over the kitchen table I'd go the simpler and *probably* cheaper way and swap the hydraulic setup for a S.III master-/slave clutch cylinders w/hydraulic tube and hose. You'll have to make and weld in place some sort of bracket where the flexible hose coming from the slave cyl. meets the tube coming from the master. If you leave it dangling freely the tube will break just from the vibrations. See that you move the hydraulic line well away from the exhaust downpipe (difficult actually); heat-reflecting wrapper would be a good idea. Finally, make sure you don't end up with a gearbox from a S.III 6-cyl.! No way it'll fit into a S.II 4-cyl (unless you take it to the kitchen table..) Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 05 95 Oct EDT 1919 Date: 05 Oct 95 19:59:54 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RR gearbox probs >> get the thing into low range and nothing happened when I pushed the lever >> forward. It appears that it is stuck in HIGH range, luckily !!! Anyone had a >Does the lever move freely? If so I would suspect a broken linkage, if it >was an internal problem the lever would be stuck/hard to move?? Yes, most likely a broken/loose linkage. The internal construction is such that it normally *can't* break (YMMV), unless you run the T-Case w/o oil for a length of time. The lever, being a double-action lever (Hi-Low and diff lock/unlock), consequently also has a double leverage (logic at work...). While the diff- lock mechanism is transmitted via a little sort of inverted U-bolt held in place by a rather flimsy cotter pin (this is much more likely to come off!) the hi-low selection transmits a turning movement to the tapered end of a selector rod protuding from the top cover of the gearbox. The selector lever is fixated to this rod with a solid clamp that is, or should be screwed tight. If for whatever reason the lever has worked itself loose on this rod, it doesn't turn the rod anymore (sufficiently) and you cannot engage low/hi gear properly. This should eventually also make difflock selection troublesome as the loose clamp doesn't offer a secure pivotal point for the difflock mechanism anymore, either. All sounds confusing? Then wait 'till you hear this: The selector lever mechanism is located so high up on the gearbox that it is practically inaccessible unless you pull back and at least partially drop the entire gearbox, which in turn requires dismantling and removal of the RR's entire center console w/ cubby box etc. (not to mention frame crossmember, exhaust and propshafts). (FTI of the Series/Defender crowd: The RR doesn't have those immensely practical openings in the front seat box) Rest assured of my sympathy... Stefan From EvanD103@aol.com Thu Oct 5 20:33:15 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:33:15 -0400 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Re: Upholstery Bargain Deals The October issue of Land Rover World has a tempting ad for seats, door panels, carpet, etc from B.L.R.S. Ltd. (page 66-67 of this issue). I would love to read a testimonial concerning the quality of this stuff. I would really like some input from someone on the left side of the Atlantic who may have ordered from this firm concerning shipping costs, customs duties/hastles. Cheers. Erik van Dyck Stone Mountain, Ga. '73 Ser. III 88 From Lloyd Allison Fri Oct 6 10:40:42 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:40:42 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Esarco does anyone know what happened to Esarco? I sent a letter to their 10-year old address and they are `not known' there anymore. Did the company fold? lloyd From vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Thu Oct 05 21:26:55 1995 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 21:26:55 EST From: vogel@shrsys.hslc.org Subject: How New FAA Regs Effect Land Rovers The FAA doesn't want us to park our Land Rovers within 300 feet of airport terminals. In its unexplained directive, parking restrictions are said to apply to vehicles over 65 inches tall. My source is the Atlanta Journal, October 4, 1995, via Lexis-Nexis. That newspaper included the "Land Rover Ranger" at 71 inches in its list of terrorist vehicles. As a librarian, I recommend Lexis-Nexis to you. The phrase "Land Rover" produces hits in 5658 articles in the last 2 years. If you are associated with an academic institution, your library may be able to give you access. Tom Vogel 1972 S3 88" From Roger Sinasohn Thu Oct 5 23:20:24 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:20:24 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Financing an older Land Rover > I don't recommend financing a Land-Rover that is going to cost $3,000 or > so. [...] > For a Land-Rover costing $10,000, financing makes more sense. I agree completely, and from experience. > But given the number of Land Rovers selling for $3,000 and > $5,000, and the sort of cult-y nature of the beast, I'm skeptical if a > finance company would loan $10,000 on a Rover. Had no trouble with my credit union. Got 2 appraisals that said it was worth more than I wanted to borrow (I could borrow up to 80% of the value) and signed a lot of papers. Voila. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Thu Oct 5 23:20:27 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 23:20:27 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Financing an older Land Rover Banks are willing to do a "classic car loan", it's just different. Check around 'til you find someone willing to admit that it can be done. I went through my credit union and had no problem. Here's the thing. because the bank/cu/S&L can't just look the vehicle up in the used car price book, they need some other way to make sure they're not loaning lots of money for something worth nothing. (Remember, if you skip town, they need to be able to sell the vehicle to get their money back.) The way they do this is to have the vehicle appraised by one or more certified appraisers. (My cu wanted 2 appraisals.) The value the appraisers give the car is how much the bank will loan. (My cu loaned me 80% of the appraised value, about typical.) If you're a member of a credit union, start there. Otherwise, work on your bank. If you want, I can send you copies of the appraisals I had done. (and I can offer advice on getting the appraisals too if you want.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From rover@europa.com (Brad Krohn/Deborah Shannon) Thu Oct 05 23:51:04 1995 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 1995 23:51:04 -0700 From: rover@europa.com (Brad Krohn/Deborah Shannon) Subject: Cool (or uncool) Starting Problems Fred: I have a similar on-going problem, although it hasn't begun to show its face this year. Additional symptoms include occasional backfiring if you try to "goose" the engine to life on the road before it's warm. Seems to me to be related to the silly single-bbl Weber carb, and the lack of any pre-heating of the fuel before it hits the cold cylinders. Just flat out doesn't burn very well until the manifold gets warm and helps it along. Believe this is one reason the pre-heater is on the other carbs. Carbs aren't my specialty, so someone correct me if I'm way off... rover@europa.com '68 IIA 88 "Bugeye" From Mr Ian Stuart Fri Oct 6 08:40:15 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:40:15 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: best off road Land Rover > How do the different Land Rover models compare in off road performance? Wildly! > Is a Defender better than a Discovery? How good is a Range Rover? Where > does my Lightweight fit in? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > I would assume that a short wheelbase coil spring model with a powerful > engine would be best off road. First part last.. If I was to swap my 109, 2.25p with a club-members 90V8 super- trialer, he would still beat me hands down. The skill of the driver is *far* more important than the ability of the vehicle. The best: You can't really divvy the LR products up like this - they are specifically aimed at different markets. In terms of performance, these are the guides to use: o Short wheelbase makes a more manouverable vehicle (good off-road), a long wheelbase smoths out the roughness of the terrain (makes for more comfort on-road). o Coils have more travel than leafs, so they are more flexable and less likely to cross-axel. o Coils are more pliant that leafs, so the ride is smoother. o V8 engines have more torque and HP that the 2.25, so are less likely to stall crossing an obstacle. o The Series vehicles are much easier to self-maintain & repair than their newer brothers & sisFrom Mike Rooth Fri Oct 6 9:37:39 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 9:37:39 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: An Oily Wad Problem Solved After five years (or perhaps longer) I've at last solved an ongoing problem on my 1970 88" Oily Wadder. Basically,it was the ride.Pitchy.Neck snappingy pitchy. I expect a bit of the Nodding Donkey effect,but not this imitation of a sozzled kangaroo.It wasnt the springs,shockers, or anything like that.Couldnt be,could it,*much* too simple, oh yes.Generally,the ride seemed smoother when it rained(A frequent occurence over here)but then again,the phenomenon wasnt particularly evident during our Ozzy type summer this year. Howver,a couple of weeks ago,it got *really* vicious.So bad that we had thrust reversal in the driveline when it bounced. Now I know our roads are bad,but this is ridiculous,and I began to fear for the halfshafts.That bad.In fact,I had almost resigned myself to attempting to replace the front engine mounts,thinking perhaps they were so soft the engine was rocking and messing up the throttle linkage(it does). THEN...yesterday,on my way home at lunchtime,approaching a roundabout at a heady forty knots,I took my foot off the throttle,like any good Oily Wadder expecting,quite justifiably in my view,NOT to have to use any artificial means of retarding my velocity.Thats what oil burners are for.Brakes?Who needs 'em.Horrors!No reduction in forward momentum! Throttle stuck open.Oh dear(I thought),the while jamming on the anchors, What Fun.Using my Audible Means Of Approach(consisting mainly of shouting "Get out of the bloody way you stupid lump of Japanese crap or I'll marmalize yer"),the hazard(challenge?)was successfully negotiated. Wiggling the hand throttle returned the engine to its normal behaviour pattern,best described as sleepy,and I proceeded upon my merry way. Suitably fortified with lunch,I reluctantly considered returning to this noble seat of learning,the better to earn another crust,when,on starting up,THE BLOODY THING DID IT AGAIN! Investigation showed that the pull-off spring on the distributor pump had resigned its commission.Bust.Knackered. So,in the best Land Rover tradition,I re-bent the offending end of the spring and replaced it.Magic!The ride is,dare one say it, smooth.Its a different vehicle.Tickover is now slow and even,smoke generation halved,and due to a rather short spring,acceleration is down.I assume that this spring,always a bit of a pathetic looking object,was actually *always* stretched to the point that it was doing little good.Who knows?I might even buy a new one. Is it perhaps no coincidence that CAV,the makers of the distributor pump,are now owned by Joe Lucas and friends?I for one,would never have thought that a miserably insignificant bit of twisted wire could have the effect it has. So if you've got a 2.25 Oily Wadder that imitates a wallaby,have a long look at the pump pull off spring.It may be worth your while. Cheers Mike Rooth From sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Fri Oct 6 09:35:54 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 09:35:54 BST From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: 4 door tilts I can't remember who, but somebody was asking about 4 door tilts. As far as I know they were never sold, but on the cover of this months Land Rover International is a photo of a swiss army prototype 100 inch coiler. The truck has 4 doors and a full tilt. The only description of it is that it was botched from a normal tilt. They didn't state the staring point but it had a very short rear load area and a very long bit over the doors so I would have thought that starting from scratch would be the easiest thing to do. The LR is on display at Dunsford (near Guildford) if anybody wants to look. No mention of the technicalities such as door frame supports were mentioned. Steve Reddock From William Caloccia Fri Oct 06 06:13:58 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 06:13:58 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: Range Rover Springs Well, when I acquired my two door, it had a distinct lean to the offside (oy ! that's even when I wasn't in the vehicle !) and one for Ripleys, the front was so far down that at the full upward angle of the headlamps they were still wicked short on their throw. So the first done was replacing the front springs, and some related bits. After some consulting with available resources, I decided to go with 'normal' rear springs - reckoned to be the 'heavy duty' option for the front. The ones they yanked out were differing in height by a couple inches and the taller, left-hand one was still a couple inches shorter than the replacement ones. At this point the vehicle had a definite lean to the rear, and at the rear to the offside. So then the rear springs were replaced with slighly used (so says limey in exile) rear HD springs. Now I could get about 15 litres more fuel in the tank and the vehicle mearly appears to have the 'normal' rearward rake of your classic Range Rover. (Then again maybe the floor jack, second spare and box of spanners way back there push it down a bit.) I don't know if I'd do heavy duty front springs again, but I think it really needs HD rears anyway. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net http://www.senie.com/billc/ 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, because |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R ul N H '72 Range Rover From sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Fri Oct 6 12:26:51 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 12:26:51 BST From: sreddock@VNET.IBM.COM Subject: Fuel tanks Hi, there was a letter to LRO some time ago about the dangers of underseat fuel tanks. The response (which all makes sense to me) was that it is actually quite a safe place to put it. A huge majority of road smashes are end to end, so in the middle is quite a safe place. Side impacts are not quite so good however. I can't remember the exact numbers but side impacts are much less likely to occur than end to ends. As has been said, if the tank goes up then it doesn't make much difference where you are in the car. Diesels are safer in this respect, and as they go so slowly you are unlikely to do any damage if you did have an accident. OK I was only joking about the speed of diesels, please do not fill my reader with pro-diesel notes. I think my tank is quite safe as it sits in the back between the wheel arches about 1 foot from the bulkhead, and leaves a handy storage space that stops things wandering around the back. At least it is now quite safe, the previous owner had not bolted it to anything! It was held in place by the pipes! Surely this is the spot to end all spots. Steve Reddock, Lightweight From sac4@cornell.edu (Stephen A. Church) Fri Oct 6 09:06:04 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:06:04 -0500 From: sac4@cornell.edu (Stephen A. Church) Subject: Jump Seats in a D90? Is it possible to put jump seats in the back of a D90? Has anyone out there done this? A friend of mine recently acquired a D90 with no backseat and he isn't a big fan on the dealer backseat option. He did like the jump seats in the back of the Discoveries he had looked at prior to purchasing the D90, though. Another friend of ours had an old Jeep Scrambler with jump seats from an old Land Cruiser that worked well, and we were wondering if anyone had done something similar to their D90 or Series LR? Is it safe? Is it practical? Any experience, opinions, thoughts, etc., appreciated. TIA. Steve Church From jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Fri Oct 6 09:26:51 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 09:26:51 EDT From: jib@big.att.com (Jan Ben) Subject: who had the v8 for sale? Hi All: I remember someone had 3 Buicks/Olds/Rover v8's for sale, one or more where built-up. I seem to remember it was in the NorthEast (US). NJ? NY? Who was it, and are they still there? Thanks Jan From BobandSueB@aol.com Fri Oct 6 11:01:57 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:01:57 -0400 From: BobandSueB@aol.com Subject: RE: Chris's 87 RR alternator .SUBJECT: '87 RR Alternator, and Lock-Right lockers. .Chris, >. .You asked if I had checked the voltage, and I'm embarrassed to say, no. .I .have a digital VOM that I could have used, but I never suspected the .alternator. As I wrote before, my only clue that this *might* be a concern .was that at idle, the "charge" light glowed very dimly. (Only noticeable at .night, and went off when you gave it some gas.) Hi, I had a the same problem on a Pontiac delco alternator.(dim light at idle) During diagnosing of the problem, I hooked up an oscilloscope to the output and saw a pulse on the dc. looking at a friends heathkit auot analyzer manual, showing what the output should be, It put the blame on a triple diode block that cost 3 or 4 dollars. After replacing the diodes, the output was smooth 12v dc (actually about 14.4). So if you had the same problem, the pulses on the dc and the lower output as a result would be the cause of problems. Bob B From Treit Le 6 95 Oct 1910 Date: 6 Oct 95 10:23:18 From: Treit Le Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest John Brabyn writes: > Richard -- is it true that after stating the Classic would be available > into the forseeable future, Land Rover is discontinuing it in February? >From my geocentric point-of-view (US), Land Rover had said that they would stop importing the Classic when weekly production went under 100. I guess that this has happened, because when I called Land Rover (1-800-FINE4WD) recently, they confirmed that the Classic was discontinued, but that some dealers in the US may have them in stock. Dealers are unloading them at deep discounts, in some cases 25% less than a 4.0 SE. From crash@merl.com Fri Oct 6 11:19:22 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:19:22 -0400 From: crash@merl.com Subject: ABS versus Lock-Right I have a question for anyone with a Lock-Right in a car with antilock brakes (ABS) Do the two fight each other? Does the ABS still function correctly or do they interfere? -Bill Yerazunis [my windshield wipers started working again. Therefore, something important is about to break.] From Treit Le 6 95 Oct 1910 Date: 6 Oct 95 10:57:47 From: Treit Le Subject: New models - US Check out the November Road & Track, page 183 for you newstand readers. It features pictures and writeups on the 4.6HSE and the D90SW. The 4.6SE is out of my price range, unfortunately at $62K, comes with 18" Ferrari (look-a-like) wheels and 225hp/280lbs torque. The D90 SW comes with the 3.9, aluminum hardtop w/ sunroof, less-utilitarian interior and from the picture, about 1/2 a safari cage. It looks nice, sort of a rear Disco clip welded to a front D90 clip. Price is $32K, and they can only be imported til 12/31/1995. Anybody know why? 3.9 emissions perhaps? From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Fri Oct 6 11:56:37 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:56:37 -0400 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: "The Middy" Just wanted to throw my two cents worth into the pot about this years Mid-Atlantic. Hats off to Sandra, Sandy, Nancy, Mike, and everyone else who worked so hard at making this thing a success! Others have documented the happenings, so I'll stick to a few personal impressions. It was great seeing "old faces" again, as well as meeting new Roverfriends, including but not limited to Chris Stevens, David Bobeck, Will Hadley (and the lovely Marybeth), Dixon and Dale, and the *other* Connecticut Gang. It's interesting to note that in person Dixon is much younger than he appears on the printed page, and that there are at least a few "Yanks" who can keep up with he and Dale on the beer consumption front. Since they proved that they can keep even with me, I went ahead and joined the Ottawa Vally club, and I hope to make it up for the B-day bash. Sad but true, the draught did leave the trials course a wee bit lacking. I know that the ROAV did its best, they were trucking water down to the mudhole when Bill Maloney and I arrived on Friday afternoon. Robert Davis' Mercruiser conversion is an engineering marvel that must be seen to be appreciated. He also had a very nice Dormmobile that's for sale. (Oh how I wish...) I'm sorry to say that I didn't get a chance to check out Duncan Brown's Turner engine, though I "*met* he and his son shortly after the bee sting incident. (Duncan: I was the guy hovering over the lad, quietly watching for signs of shock. VERY glad my worst fears didn't prove true, but you only have to watch one allergic person get "hit" to carry pictures around for life.) Riding in the 101FC was great fun. As Jared lives in the "hood", I hope to see more of this vehicle. I also enjoyed watching over Quintens shoulder as he piloted the 80" through the trials course. I'm definitely going to work up the nerve to take my Rover through one of these years, probably as soon as I own a second vehicle of some type. Yes, my oil filler tube is now properly capped again. I added a chain to the assembly, so I hope to avoid the Coke can in future years. I hope to be assembling some of my photographs (though the tree incident, photographed using my camera will remain unpublished - the shot came out miraculessly well framed considering the photographer claimed to have her eyes closed) and text into a photo essay that I hope Ray will publish via the Roverweb. If you'd like to contribute some text, or photos, we can make it a collaberative project. Please contact me back-channel. Thanks to everyone who said nice things about my toolbox. I'm narcassistic enought to really appreciate it. John Humphries - The music was great! Special thanks, as always, to Bill Maloney for leading the way, and for putting up with those of us with limited technical knowledge and 12 gallon gas tanks. Hope to see everyone down there next year. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Fri Oct 6 11:56:30 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:56:30 -0400 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Radio placement Jan Ben writes: > Also, can you recommend a place to fit a radio? As I have a ragtop, I put my radio in an aluminum enclosure mounted under the dash. It used to have a lexan "bubble" cover over it, but I broke that this winter and haven't gotten around to replacing it yet. Also, the faceplate removes for security. My "one-hander" CB - all controls in the microphone - mounted on the bulkhead behind the heater vent. A picture detailing the above is available on the Roverweb. Back-channel EMAIL me if you need the URL and I'll look it up. Regards. Keep on Roverin' JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From Mike Rooth Fri Oct 6 15:58:25 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 15:58:25 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Celeb Owner(But probably not Driver) John Paul Getty 11 sent his chauffeur in a Disco to pick up a mongrel dog from the police pound. Said dog had "shopped" his previous owner(a burglar)by leading the cops back to his house,whereupon they arrested him(the bloke not the dog).Well,come to think of it I suppose they *did* arrest the mutt in a way.Fell on his feet that dog! Cheers Mike Rooth From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Fri Oct 6 11:57:47 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:57:47 -0400 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Unwanted oil transfer question. As always forgive my lack of technical knowledge (and correct me) if I bumble this question. Recently, I'd read in either LRO or LRW that if you open the Filler/Level plug on your transfer box (later Series IIA) and oil flows out, it's a sign that oil is flowing through bearing in the gearbox. I questioned Bill Maloney about this while we were in Virginia, and he confirmed my diagnosis and mentioned that while my tranny is being pulled for repairs, I should have a double bearing installed. He offered to provide me with details and a part number upon our return. Unfortunately, Bill is vacationing "on the road" for a couple of weeks, and won't be able to EMAIL me the info. Can anyone shed some light on the details of this process? Also, I've been unable to locate the original pointer in my recent back issues of LRO/LRW. If anyone can provide a pointer to that blurb, I'd be most greatful. Regards, and thanks as always for tolerating a "mechanically differently-abled" Rover owner. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 6 13:47:43 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:47:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Unwanted oil transfer question. On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Jeffrey A. Berg wrote: > Recently, I'd read in either LRO or LRW that if you open the Filler/Level > plug on your transfer box (later Series IIA) and oil flows out, it's a sign > that oil is flowing through bearing in the gearbox. Interesting... Have to check that some day. Right now the flow of oil is faster through the front and rear of the transfer box Hmmm, If I over fill the gearbox,and presume it is leaking, I won't have to worry about the transfer box running dry as soon! From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 6 13:36:12 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:36:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: "The Middy" On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Jeffrey A. Berg wrote: > appears on the printed page, and that there are at least a few "Yanks" who > can keep up with he and Dale on the beer consumption front. Since they > proved that they can keep even with me, I went ahead and joined the Ottawa > Vally club, and I hope to make it up for the B-day bash. You hit us at a low point after many hours of driving. To wit, while we were at the site for 37 hours, we spent 42 getting there and back (yeah, yeah, nothing compared to what Ben "the road is my bride" Smith does. 7,000+ miles in two weeks in his SIII) The springs in the Saab are still complaining about that diesel engine we tossed in the back are brought back to Canada. However, beerwise, you gotta see Dale in action. He and Jon Humphrey (your best champion I have seen yet) can put on quite a tag team effort with rather amusing results... Birthday Party bash is smaller than Sandy's effort (an incredible effort that we wouldn't want to try and duplicate) but has slightly more exposed granite bedrock and a lot more mud. Different events. Both very worthwhile & I note that next year BSROA's Fall Heritage will be on a different weekend from the ROAV Mid-Atlantic. A double header in the end of September/beginning of October. Downeast Rally at Owl's Head Maine has been scheduled for July 6-7 weekend next year > Thanks to everyone who said nice things about my toolbox. I'm narcassistic > enought to really appreciate it. So where does the Jackall go? (Note: This toolbox is *big*, holds a ton of stuff, and blends in very well behind the front seats of the 88". > John Humphries - The music was great! And I understand the little Sheltie dog of his... :-) > Hope to see everyone down there next year. Quite an event. People from Dixieland Rovers, the Blue Ridge Club, and OVLR all there. Next year I'll arrive in a 109 and not an 80" keeping the Saab well away from your towing abilities... Of course, several people are planning on an arms escalation with potato guns. Still like the big storefront sign that showed Dale and I we were getting close. It read "BEER, PORK, & GUNS"... From John Brabyn Fri Oct 6 10:49:58 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 10:49:58 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: best off road Land Rover On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Mr Ian Stuart wrote: (in response to the query on "best off-road" Land Rover ... > So - if you want an easy-to-maintain, manouverable, vehicle - and you > arn't too concerned about comfort, get a series vehicle. The [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > - If you want some comfort and manouverability, chop a Range Rover > V8 down to 80" Seems like this question should at least spark off a lively debate! Sounds like the original inquirer has a Series vehicle already (a Lightweight), so he's in good shape! Actually, I think each model has some legitimate claim to being the best at some aspect of off-road performance. The Series I 80" may be the ultimate for simple maintenance and manoeverability, but all the other models have situations in which they too are the ultimate off road. Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Fri Oct 6 11:59 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 11:59 EDT From: jhoward@atlas.usno.navy.mil (James D. Howard) Subject: Vacuum advance I recently converted my SIII from Rochester carburation back to Zenith. There is a vacuum leak I have to fix yet, but at the top end (full throttle down the Interstate), it seems to have more power. Acceleration seems to be slightly poorer, though. I was wondering if I should hook up my vacuum advance? It was hooked up to the Rochester, but I have not found where I could hook it to the Zenith, yet. This is one of the emission control Zeniths, with the emission controls removed. The distributor was changed by the PO from a vacuum retard to a vacuum advance. James Howard jhoward@argus.lowell.edu 1972 SIII 88 "Ephraim" Flagstaff, Arizona, USA From JHobbs151@aol.com Fri Oct 6 15:08:27 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:08:27 -0400 From: JHobbs151@aol.com Subject: LRO I don't intend to upset any Land Rover owners with what follows but must say that I am becoming increasingly discouraged with the cost of SUVs/off-road vehicles, etc. All the mfgs seem to be pricing vehicles to the "luxury" vehicle crowd. The value of a 4WD system sure has increased in the past few years. Whle Land Rovers are definitely the most rugged, dependable, etc., etc. vehicles you can buy, why the high price tags? While I think that the Discovery is the best all-around SUV for the price, it is still a good $15 above a nice, acceptable 4WD Jeep Cherokee (with no bells and whistles). The Defender 90 is an extraordinary off-road vehicle, but at $35K, it is easily $20K higher than a Wrangler, although there is really no comparison between the two (except that they sort-of look alike). But Jeep also has the Grand Cherokee available with V8 and frills and you can easily spend $30K on one of those iof you want to. But, for those with thin wallets, or who can't rationalize spending $35K on an automobile, Jeep seems to be the only mfg. that has vehicles available for the "economy consumer. What could Land Rover accomplish if they could come out with an off-road vehicle in the $20K range? I have to think they would put a big, big dent in Jeep sales. But, being an import, it may not be possible to keep the price in that range while keeping with traditional Land Rover design and reputation intact. Any thoughts? From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 6 16:20:22 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:20:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: best off road Land Rover On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, John Brabyn wrote: > Actually, I think each model has some legitimate claim to being the best > at some aspect of off-road performance. The Series I 80" may be the > ultimate for simple maintenance and manoeverability, but all the other > models have situations in which they too are the ultimate off road. All depends on the terrain... Last weekend I was trying out Quintin Aspen's '51 80" at the Mid-Atlantic Rally. Impressive little vehicle. My only regret is I didn't get a chance to try Jared's 101 and compare the two... :-) A 101 will certainly get you through some stuff the 80" won't, but the size of the 101 will be a disadvantage elsewhere. One of each please... Rgds, From John Brabyn Fri Oct 6 14:04:41 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:04:41 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: best off road Land Rover On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Dixon Kenner wrote: > All depends on the terrain... Last weekend I was trying out > Quintin Aspen's '51 80" at the Mid-Atlantic Rally. Impressive [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > you through some stuff the 80" won't, but the size of the 101 > will be a disadvantage elsewhere. Quite right Dixon. But I thought you, as a well known Range Rover fan, would have also pointed out the fact that aside from being comfortable, the latter is the vehicle of choice when the going gets really sticky! Seriously, you are right and one of each would be the best! Cheers John John Brabyn 89 RR From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Fri Oct 06 19:58:33 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 19:58:33 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER STAMPS FOR SALE As promised here is a listing of stamps for sale. They are a surplus to my needs. I have some others coming soon, how soon I dont know. The price beside them is what I want for them, If you really want a particular stamp then bid higher for it. Bidding will close at 6pm 11th oct 95. when replying with bids, let me know the # (number on the list and how much you bid for it. I willkeep track of bids for each stamp. I'll start with the highest bidders and work down until we run out for each stamp. THis should give every one a fair chance to get something. All stamps are un franked ? cancelled unless otherwise noted. The stamp with the Land Rover on it is usualy one of a set of a number of stamps on a topic. If I have the set then it is marked 1 of a set of 4. QTY avail is the number of sets of thiFrom jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Sat Oct 7 22:04:26 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:04:26 +1200 From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Subject: fuel tanks It arrived today. The new LWB frame for my 74 series 3, its off a 79 diesel, and in mint condition. But there appear to be no mounts, in the new frame for the petrol tank. the old one is mounted under the right hand seat, and the guy from the wreckers yard who sold me this one indicated that the tank goes down the back somewhere. Can someone tell me where it goes? will I need a different shaped tank from the under seat one. thanking you in advance. john From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 07 95 Oct EDT 1907 Date: 07 Oct 95 07:52:05 EDT From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Rover prices I agree the 90 is overpriced, rather like the they used to say about the GI 's in England in ww2, over priced, over sexed and over here.!! You missed one important factor however and that is import duty which is 20 or 25%. in order to protect the domestic suv's, mostly from the Japanese imports I believe. In the UK the 90 is much cheaper than the disco at base level, the US spec vehicles are however much higher spec than the UK models. The Jeeps are on sale in the UK and are still cheaper than the Rover, don't think they attract high import duties . Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. The older, original Jeep is however more expensive than the Land Rover. From "John C. White III" Sat Oct 7 08:12:35 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 08:12:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: LRO I'm afraid you lost at least me on this one. Is you point that all 4WDs are too expensive, or is that Land Rovers are expensive in comparison to other 4WDs? Both? Yeah, Land Rovers are expensive, but it always costs more to get the best. I'm not sure I agree with your opinion that LR should produce a $15K knock-off just to cut into the Jeep market. Would you want Rolls Royce to produce a $7,000 car to compete with Geo Metro? With all of the corners LR and Rolls would have to cut, the knock-offs wouldn't really anything in common with their more costly brethren except the badges. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California On Fri, 6 Oct 1995 JHobbs151@aol.com wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I don't intend to upset any Land Rover owners with what follows but must say [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] > I have to think they would put a big, big dent in Jeep sales. But, being an > import, it may not be possible to keep the price in that range while keeping > with traditional Land Rover design and reputation intact. Any thoughts? From Dixon Kenner Sat Oct 7 13:47:37 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:47:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: best off road Land Rover On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, John Brabyn wrote: > Quite right Dixon. But I thought you, as a well known Range Rover fan, > would have also pointed out the fact that aside from being comfortable, > the latter is the vehicle of choice when the going gets really sticky! > Seriously, you are right and one of each would be the best! Of course... And if you happened to bring a nice modern Range Rover to one of the events next year, I'd be most pleased to try it out and give you my impressions there too... :-) From ecoethic@rcinet.com Sat Oct 7 21:16:18 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:16:18 -0400 (EDT) From: ecoethic@rcinet.com Subject: Re: Shot at again in New Hampshire! No, I really wasn't shot at again in New Hampshire, but I was wounded in spirit. Back in September one of our group offered a Bellview winch for sale and I immediately sent an E-mail message as well as called. I spoke to the seller and told him that I was interested provided it was functional. He agreed to send a picture of it and said that "I had the right of first refusal." Well, nothing has transpired despite my sending several messages asking if he wanted a deposit or full payment in the meantime. It is now apparent that he sold the winch to someone else and has broken his promise. I bring all of this up not as sour grapes, for after all I am such a skilled driver that I am unlikely to ever need a winch myself :-). I have driven the last thirty years without one, it's just that I have this dream about winching out Jeeps and Toys, etc. instead of dragging them out. The problem with this situation for me is that it violates the spirit of friendship and trust that bonds this group together. Many of you have given freely of your expertise no matter who asked for help. The seller of the winch, in fact, recently asked about paint code numbers and received multiple detailed replies. The buyer of the winch probably also received help in the details about hooking up electric winches that was also given freely by knowledgeable list members. Just as we trust the information that is shared here to be honest to the best of each person's knowledge, I think we should expect a decent level of honesty when we sell items to fellow list members. When one loses the trust of fellow Rover owners, one loses a lot. This is a special group of people, one not worth disappointing. Walt Pokines Tipp City, Ohio "Winchless" From Lloyd Allison Sun Oct 8 16:00:45 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 16:00:45 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: 4 door tilts I have seen a 5dr 109 SW with a full-length soft-top (tilt?), unfortunately I did not have a camera handy. I've also seen pic's in a book or mag' somewhere. I think a few were made for export markets. Oil-transfer: S1-SIII seem to transfer oil from gearbox -> tc_case when old and the intermediate seal has gone. LT95 can transfer oil tc_case -> gearbox if the sleeve that the intermediate seal runs on can move on the output shaft. This is surprising 'cos it is "uphill". Cure is to locktite sleeve to shaft and take out slack with shims. Similar effect, but slower, if the o-ring sealing the reverse-gear shaft is damaged. Lloyd From Sekerere@aol.com Sun Oct 8 02:42:42 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 02:42:42 -0400 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Parts from The Homecountry Just a quick query-has anyone done business with Trakkers-the seat and accessories company in the UK? I am considering buying thier Dickie seats for my IIA. Also anyone with experiences of shipping costs etc, I am in Arizona? Last question is there anyone else doing an order to the Uk, maybe we can combine orders and save a few C. Thanks Chris W 1966 Series IIA 88" "Antichrist" From David Bartlett Sun Oct 08 09:39:57 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 1995 09:39:57 From: David Bartlett Subject: News from the trans-Africa team I recently received a post-card from Barry Dudley, posted in Tanzania on 18/9/95, with some news of their trans-Africa trip. Here is a paraphrase of his news, written on day 86 of their trip. They are 2 months behind schedule, and travel has not been easy. It appears that they have had quite a lot of trouble with the "BEAST". (I forget which model Landy it is.) They have had the engine out twice, the clutch twice and have met many good mechanics on their tours of the workshops. Three travelling partners have left them due to money, slow progress, and border problems at Tanzania. But they are having a RAVE. They are still hoping to get to the UK eventually (mid 96?). He says to those of you planning such a trip: Reduce weight, Double your film, and Quadruple your money! (Andy Grafton are you still reading this list?) Despite the difficulties, they seem to be having a great time. David. From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Oct 08 09:18:16 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 09:18:16 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER MODELS MADE TO ORDER E arlier thi year I was having some discussion with someone on the net about making them a model of their own vehicle. I have just sufferred a MAJOR erasure problem. Woulkd whoever the person was please re contact me. Thank you Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Donald Unger Sun Oct 8 12:15:45 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 12:15:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Donald Unger Subject: Manuals for sale I have a 2 vol set of the factory manuals for the Ser.II and IIa surplus to needs. (Part Nos.606407 & 606408). They are used, but in excellent condition; $85.00 + postage, or OBO. Don Unger (503) 753-0113 1966 Ser.IIa 109 STWG 1973 Ser.III 88 From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sun Oct 08 15:37:19 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 1995 15:37:19 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Manuals for sale Donald Unger writes: >I have a 2 vol set of the factory manuals for the Ser.II and IIa surplus to needs. (Part Nos.606407 & 606408). They are used, but in excellent condition; $85.00 + postage, or OBO. --Don Unger (503) 753-0113 Ordinarily a good deal, except British Pacific in Burbank 800-554-4133 has the same set available until the end of November at US$89 *brand new*. ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Sun Oct 08 15:50:16 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Oct 1995 15:50:16 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Four Wheeler Magazine!!! =========================== MAGAZINE ALERT!!! =========================== The US newstand issue of November Four Wheeler Magazine has a Defender advertisement insert which is a fold out poster calendar measuring about 50cm X 75cm. Pictured is a Rhino at speed chasing a Defender with about 2m from his goal. The caption reads to the effect "We'd love to tell you about the new Defender, not now of course". This same issue reportedly features a Mercedes Unimog. One picture overlays the table of contents, and there is a short profile on page 32 of Craig Tull of the Texas Motorpool in Baytown, Texas, who along with Dirk Rautenberg from Port Orchard, Washington, championed an Unimog in a field of ten 4x4 vehicles at the 1995 Four Wheeler Challenge at the Hollister OHVR park in California. Nice goin' Craig and Dirk! ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Tiffany Downing Mon Oct 9 09:37:24 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 09:37:24 +0930 From: Tiffany Downing Subject: RE: Best Off Road Land Rover My computers been "Off Line" for a while so I missed the original question about the Best Off Road Land Rover. I've read a few replies and have to agree that it really a combination of driver ability, vehicle ability and off road conditions. We hold a trail about once every couple of months in different terrain, sand, mud, more sand, rocks, etc, and there has not been one vehicle or one driver that has won every single trial. However the types of vehicle that consistently did well were the 109 LWB Series IIA's and III's. I have only ever seen one D90 in Australia, a nice red one, belonging to Pete Brown from England, who happened to be visiting his family at the time, and his vehicle absolutely s#*t on everything else we put up against it. Mind you Pete was a bit of a hoon and his blackcurrent cordial became legendary. But when Pete drove his brothers Range Rover he didn't do quite so good as Tighe who was driving Pete's vehicle. So all in all I would have to say that although the 109's have been performing consistently well in the trails the D90 would have to get my vote of approval for the best performing vehicle I've seen. However, nothing beats driving along in your IIA, bumping, clawing and scratching your way to the top only to not quite make it and run out of juice 1/2 a metre from the top. Longer run up try it again..... I think I can, I think I can.......YEAH!!!!!!! Tiffany Downing ******************************************** Co-ordinator, International Student Programs TAFE South Australia, AUSTRALIA Phone: (61 8) 226 3202 Fax: (61 8) 226 3655 E-Mail: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au ******************************************** From fiction1@ix.netcom.com (Rich Hansen ) Sun Oct 8 18:58:39 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 18:58:39 -0700 From: fiction1@ix.netcom.com (Rich Hansen ) Subject: '89 Range Rover Hello, Some advice please?!! I've been presented the unexpected opportunity of buying a 1989 Range Rover, 70k miles, good condition for around $14,500(US) I've always wanted a Range Rover so I may not be thinking rationally. Does the price sound acceptable, any known problems with this year, what sort of things should I look for/evaluate? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RH From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 8 95 Oct EDT 1922 Date: 8 Oct 95 22:40:49 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: '89 Range Rover Speaking as the wife of a banker, talk to your bank and find out what the loan value is on the beast before you plunk your money down. This will give you a good feeling for what you're up against on the price -Alan Hello, Some advice please?!! I've been presented the unexpected opportunity of buying a 1989 Range Rover, 70k miles, good condition for around $14,500(US) I've always wanted a Range Rover so I may not be thinking rationally. Does the price sound acceptable, any known problems with this year, what sort of things should I look for/evaluate? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, RH From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Oct 8 20:11:15 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 95 20:11:15 PDT From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Hideous is as hideous was Saw a picture of the next generation Jeep Wrangler in current Car & Driver... It is still hideous. It will have coil springs, ROUND headlights, and a "novel four wheel drive system" - which sounds like it still isn't full time. I'm sure the price will be up up and away with this toys plus its dual airbags... And the current price of a 6-cyl Sahara w/hardtop and some toys is over 20-grand. So is the D90 really overpriced?? A counterpoint on the digest was the Rolls-Royce/Geo analogy. Does Land Rover really need to compete in the entry Jeep/Geo Tracker segment. Given its current production capacity, history, target demographics, and model lineup, I think perhaps not. In any case, my observation might be moot with the arrival of the CB40 next year. It is rumored to be at a lower price point than anything else sold in North America by LR... And everything else is creeping up. The Ford Exploder Limited is stickering at 37 grand!! For a freakin' Ford Ranger pickup - leaf sprung s'box with a four door body schlepped on top of it! Metro West is right across the street from one of the largest Jeep dealerships in Mass. I've yet to see a Disco or a Defender on their lot! But we have a regular parade of Cherokees, Grand Cherokees and Wranglers being traded here! But most of us know this and won't be surprised... My latest Disco customer - having traded his `93 Grand Cherokee pointed to it as he was driving out in his new Rover and remarked "God, what a piece of s--t!" His words... We also recently traded a `95 Grand Cherokee Orvis (top spec) with (not a misprint) 650 miles on it! She hated it - having had owned an older Range Rover previously! Easy to move up to the Rover - tough to go back to a different brand. So, everyone - enjoy your Rovers! They're still the best - even with their faults and peculiarities! The lug nuts ad running lately is really clever bit! It really isn't about lug nuts but is a symbol of the robust construction inherent to even ancient Land Rovers... Decent pictures of the D90 SW are beginning to sprout up in everyone's publication. Still nothing official on price- but the 32K number keeps popping up in the print media... BSROA beach drive at Race Point in P`town on Sunday, Oct. 22. Flyer has been mailed out to membership... cheerz Jim - quite simply nuts about Rovers - or perhaps just nuts... `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C Diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Sun Oct 8 21:08:22 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 21:08:22 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: LT77 Gearbox Fluid Level Question - problem? Running a quick fluids check on Samson ('94 NAS D90) this afternoon revealed the following: the fluid level in the main gearbox (LT77) is well above the filler plug! Removal of the plug released red ATF. No this wasn't the drain plug :) I don't know how full the gearbox is as I didn't completely remove the plug when I observed this. Based on the bit that came out I'd say the level is about anFrom Andrew Birrell Mon Oct 9 10:30:55 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:30:55 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Andrew Birrell Subject: Re: fuel tanks The tanks are of diffferent size (and shape), so I don't think that you will be able to fit your under-seat tank at the back. You should be able to weld a bracket on the right hand side of the chassis, in order to fit your tank in the same position as before. From Vel Natarajan Mon Oct 9 03:39:04 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 03:39:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Re: Parts from The Homecountry >From: Sekerere@aol.com >Just a quick query-has anyone done business with Trakkers-the seat and >accessories company in the UK? I am considering buying thier Dickie seats for >my IIA. Also anyone with experiences of shipping costs etc, I am in Arizona? FYI, Trakkers is owned by Warwick 4x4. (big glossy ads in the magazines) The seats are produced in a room in the back of the Warwick 4x4 building. I've noticed that the prices seemed slightly higher than the seats advertised in other ads in the LR magazines, but haven't compared the quality of the two. I guess it would be a fairly honest company to order from. From Vel Natarajan Mon Oct 9 03:48:08 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 03:48:08 -0500 (CDT) From: Vel Natarajan Subject: Bat Fastard springs I need to get new front springs for my 66 SWB, and stopped by a local 4x4 shop in my town. They wanted 39 quid for each. Bat Fastards sells front ones for about 25 (I think). The person at the shop said that the one's sold by Bat's are crap metal imported from India. The one's he wanted to sell were made by "British Springs Ltd" which are higher quality steel made in England. But looking at Bat's ad, it _implied_ that they used british steel and that they were made in England. The ad said something like the following: "[x] use british steel [x] support your british workforce " It didn't say "_WE_ use british steel", etc. Am I reading into this too much? Should I spend the extra 15 pounds per spring? From Mike Rooth Mon Oct 9 11:34:40 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 95 11:34:40 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Bat Fastard springs FWIW,I wouldnt use *anybody's* non-genuine springs. And that's the voice of experience:-( BUT,having said that,the advert *does* say that the manufacturer is British (or rather that the springs are made in Britain),and that the manufacturer conforms to BS5750,and that you have a 12 month guarantee. You could always ring them and ask whether the manufacturer does,in fact,use British steel. That is,if such a thing exists any more. I may be wrong,but I cant see BLRS getting away with that advert with the Fair Trading people if push came to shove.On the other hand,I appreciate that you dont want that sort of hassle. One of the problems I had with non-gen springs,was the bushes,which lasted the proverbial five minutes.(Just under a month,in fact,these were the rear ones,the fronts seemed OK,touch wood).I replaced the bushes for the MOT, and two months later they had gone again.So genuine bushes it had to be,about ten p extra per bush,and they are still OK.Several years later.I wouldnt have thought you wanted *that* sort of hassle,either.YMMV,of course. Cheers Mike Rooth From (Tom Rowe) Mon Oct 09 08:18:27 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 08:18:27 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: Hideous is as hideous was On Sun, 8 Oct 95 20:11:15 PDT Jim wrote: >Saw a picture of the next generation Jeep Wrangler in current Car & Driver... >It is still hideous. It will have coil springs, ROUND headlights, Snip What's wrong with round headlights? They are actually a better light source, given comparable design. The reason mfgs. moved to rectangular was for beter aerodynamics. Since a Land Rover (and a Jeep for that matter) are "about as aerodynamic as a billboard" (to quote Al Tocci) why not opt for better lighting. My two cents worth. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Michael Slade Mon Oct 9 07:23:29 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:23:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Slade Subject: help Help slade@teleport.COM Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81) From "Doug Carmean" Mon Oct 9 08:42:20 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 08:42:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "Doug Carmean" Subject: The 1996 D90... > The US newstand issue of November Four Wheeler Magazine has a Defender > advertisement insert which is a fold out poster calendar measuring about > 50cm X 75cm. Pictured is a Rhino at speed chasing a Defender with about > 2m from his goal. The caption reads to the effect "We'd love to tell you > about the new Defender, not now of course". The local LR dealer is finally having their grand opening party later this month. The rumor is that they are going to have the 1996 D90 from the ad mentioned above at the dealership. Apparently, LR decided not to fix the nice hole that the Rhino put in the side of the D90. So, it's supposed to be here, Rhino hole and all. Doug Carmean 1995 RR 4.0SE - MTYDOG dcarmean@ichips.intel.com From Daniel Grambihler Mon Oct 9 09:24:50 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 09:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Grambihler Subject: D90 Purchase Hi All- Like many newbies, I have been "lurking" around the list for a while now. But now it's time to "come out" - I just got approved for a loan to purchase a '95 D90 (red). They have to transfer from another dealearship (I'm getting mine @ LR Scottsdale, AZ) - should be in by the 11th. It's pretty bare bones (for now) but I can hardly sit still thinking about that first drive. I'm on a business trip at the moment, so putting the whole thing together has been pretty challenging, but *definitely* worth it. My girlfriend will be relieved that I won't be racking up so many miles on her Jeep! :-) I first went to the dealership in March to check out their D90 selection. This was my first introduction to Land Rover's, aside from my perception of the Range Rover as a yuppie vehicle used mainly for commuting to Manhattan from Connecticut. ;-) I was very impressed, but declined a test drive for fear of becoming obsessed with something out of my price range. When I got home that night, all I could do was think about owning a D90. The next day, I went back to the dealership to take them up on the test drive. What a blast that was! LR Scottsdale has a four-wheeling track on the Salt River (only about a mile from the dealership) that put their demo through the paces. I got to take the 90 up, down, over, and across things that I would never have *dreamed* of taking the Jeep through - and I'm not exactly know for my good judgement! Anyway - needless to say - this started a *real* burning desire within me. Unfortunately, I don't have the most pristine credit in the world (again, not known for my judgement :-) ), so I pretty much bagged the idea for a while. But I did start checking into internet resources for the LRs to see what I could find out about them (thinking that at least I could get a Series). It was the LRO digest that clued me into the fact that this was the last year for the US D90. So I kept reading the digest and dreaming about the 90. To make an already too long story short, 2 weeks ago I stopped by the dealership again (just to look - ha!) and ended up filling out a loan app. The first few attempts didn't go, but I finally got my credit union to loan me the money. It's going to be kind've lean for a bit, but hey - who needs to eat!? Thanks to the LRO digest for keeping me informed AND motivated. I don't think that I would've make the leap without all of you! (anybody have an extra plate at their dinner table for the next couple of weeks? ;-) ). Now all I have to do is keep busy for 5 more days so I don't go *crazy* waiting! (maybe I'll go take another "test drive"!) Cheers! - Daniel -- Daniel Grambihler danielg@eskimo.com GAT !d(--) -p+/-- c++++/--- l++ u++/- e+ m/+/++@ s-/ n--- h+ f* g-/+ w+ t+ r y++/--/** Coming soon: 95 D90! From MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV Sun Oct 8 19:46:08 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 19:46:08 -0400 (EDT) From: MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV Subject: Land Rover for Sale To all Rover enthusiasts who saw my earlier posting and those who did not: The 1967 SIIA 109 LWB LHD Land Rover I advertised at this e-mail address is still available. Those who have seen it agree it is worth every penny of $13,000 for its condition and the many xtras included. The only delay is finding someone who has the money to buy it. I am fairly anxious to sell it as I mentioned in my previous posting and will take the first reasonable offer from anyone who has the money ready. If anyone is interested, I can be reached at: (202) 260-8921 work (301) 349-5712 home mfield@mohawk.wic.epa.gov email Please don't hesitate to call if interested you won't be disappointed if this is the type of Rover you have been waiting for. Malcolm S. Field From gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Mon Oct 9 10:04:12 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:04:12 -0700 From: gpool@pacific.pacific.net (Granville B. Pool) Subject: Re: '89 Range Rover Rich Hansen asks: >Hello, >Some advice please?!! [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >Thanks, >RH I'm not sure where you are and what prices are like there. But here in the S.F. Bay Area, that would be a damn good price, maybe even too good to be true... I'd like to find one such. Oh, never mind, that would just complicate my life cuz I couldn't afford it anyway right now. Have fun! Cheers, Granville B. Pool, Redwood Valley, Alta California Norte, USA (707)485-7220 Home; (707)463-4265 Work In the midst of the word he was trying to say, In the midst of his laughter and glee, He had softly and suddenly vanished away-- For the Snark _was_ a Boojum, you see. --Lewis Carroll From "Wharton, Skip" Mon Oct 09 13:41:57 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 13:41:57 EST From: "Wharton, Skip" Subject: Re: 89 Range Rover FYI to Rich Hansen - Saw a nice looking '89 Range Rover yesterday - white w/ tan leather interior - looked loaded (as I would assume they all are) - didn't see the mileage since it was parked on the side of the road w/ a sign. Asking price was $14,999 US - so without looking at the blue book I'd say you are at least in the ballpark at $14,500. If anyone wants more information let me know... I didn't copy down the phone number, but I'm sure I'll see it again. Skip Wharton From the Holy City of Charleston, SC, USA From EvanD103@aol.com Mon Oct 9 14:12:57 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:12:57 -0400 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Re: Fuel pump kit Ben Smith asked about 2.25 petrol fuel pump diapragms. I ran into the same problem with an aftermarket kit ordered from Craddock or Paddock, complained and was sent an OEM kit made in Turkey. It too had the washers/pushrod reversed on the diaphagm. I called Rovers North, they were kind enough to pull a kit from the shelf: some thing. I went ahead and rebuilt my pump with the "backwards" diaphragm, as the RN chap said it should work. That was back in Feb. or March. I'd like to be able to report that it's worked fine since, but to tell the truth I haven't started my engine yet. My frame off restoration is progressing nicely, but I'm not going to run the engine 'till my trucks ready to drive! By then the warranty on the fuel pump kit will probably be over! Erik van Dyck Stone Mountain, Georgia '73 Series 3 88" From bfenwic@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU Mon Oct 09 15:56:56 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 1995 15:56:56 -0400 (EDT) From: bfenwic@UOFT02.UTOLEDO.EDU Subject: New Jeep! Dear Land Rover List I am writing this message to your list in responce to some people that have the attitude that think Land Rovers are the best off-roader in the world and there is nothing else out there. I have grown up around Land Rovers all my life and yes they are top of the line off-roaders. My father owns a 88 Range Rover and a 74 Series III. I personally own a Jeep Wrangler myself and have been off-roading with my father many time and have gone every where he has. I not saying that Jeeps are better than Land Rovers or anything like that. If this is taken the wrong way I'm sorry! Remember that Land Rover's design was copied for Willys Jeep if you do your research. By the way, the President of Land Rover North America son owns a Sidekick. I guess all I am trying to say is be respectful to all other four-wheels and don't live in your own litte world. Don't look down upon a person for what he off-roads in or what he considers to be the best off-roader. Sincerely Benjamin K. Fenwick +---------+ +---------+ + *** **** + ---- --- - - - - - ---- - / | PORSCHE | + ** * * * * + |-- |- | \ | | _ | | | | /\ +---------+ | * * * * | | |__ | \ | / \ | | |___ | \ +---------+ | * * * **** | Vintage Motorsports Ltd. | Land/ | + * * * * + "Racing The Past Into The Future" | /Rover | + * ***** + +---------+ +---------+ Benjamin K. Fenwick e-mail: BFENWIC@uoft02.utoledo.edu FVMSLtd. is a registered trademark of Fenwick Vintage Motorsports Ltd. From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Oct 09 16:11:10 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 16:11:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Parts from the UK. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Parts from the UK. Hi Chris! I saw your post on ordering parts from the UK. I have requested a quote on around $700 sterling worth of "junk". (transmission, springs, misc seals, etc...) I sent a letter to AEW Paddock, then followed up with a phone call, two fax's, another phone call... and after 3-4 months since I sent the original letter I STILL haven't heard anything back. When I talked to them on the phone, they did reassure me that they had my order, and the last time I spoke with them they were waiting for the white-spoke wheels, which were on back order. I'm really tired of waiting!!! I chose them because of their prices, and their add indicated that they export to anywhere. But, if you know of a better source, (ie: will ship within a month of Sunday's!) I'm all ears! I'm not urgently waiting or anything, but I would like to get the parts! What do you have in mind? Dave (forced th have great patience) Brown #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") $8500 bargain (needs a trans.) Now with lockers! #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Oct 09 16:33:14 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Oct 95 16:33:14 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Hidious was... and still is! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Hidious was... and still is! James, A great posting! My sentiments exactly! I've just recently purchased the '87 RR and am loving it! I still love the 109, and 88 mind you. But for a daily driver, that I can take off road (at least weekly) the RR is superb! I can see how someone would trade in a *new* Cherokee for a RR... even an old one! Sure, I'm probably one of the most parsimonious people I know, but you really do get what you pay for with a LR product. Other's... you don't even get what you pay for. Once you try the best, you can forget the rest! Later.... Dave (joining you in complete madness...) Brown #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From ac443@osfn.rhilinet.gov (John Karlsson) Mon Oct 9 19:42:45 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:42:45 -0400 From: ac443@osfn.rhilinet.gov (John Karlsson) Subject: 'K' MOTORS I am considering purchasing a reconditioned 2.25 petrol engine from K' MOTORS. They have quoted a very attractive price for a lead free stripped engine shipped to Boston. I would be interested in hearing from anyone who has had any experience with them, good or bad. John Karlsson Hope Valley, RI USA From Tiffany Downing Tue Oct 10 09:35:08 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:35:08 +0930 From: Tiffany Downing Subject: Re: New Jeep At 03:56 PM 9/10/95 -0400, you wrote: > Dear Land Rover List > I am writing this message to your list in responce to some people [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > don't live in your own litte world. Don't look down upon a person for what he > off-roads in or what he considers to be the best off-roader. Benjamin Don't take me the wrong way but you are very game to write a letter like this to a group of Land Rover Owners. It's not such a bad attitude to have because we keep it to ourselves. If we bag other vehicles at least we don't do it to their face we keep in to the list, it is after all a Land Rover Owner Mailing List, and Land Rover Owners are very proud to own a Landy (or ten) and that's something rare. I've never seen a group of four wheel drive owners that bond so well together as Land Rover Owners. Yeah you hear comments like "Get a Real 4WD" and such but they are thrown around from both sides. I'm sure the owners of Toymotors, Rice Rockets and Bogroll's all say the same thing about Land Rover Owners. It works the same as Computer people with Apple V IBM, which one is the better computer. Don't take it to heart just because you drive a Jeep. Many of these people have driven other vehicles and just prefer Land Rover, its as simple as that. We all live, eat, sleep and dream about Land Rovers they are our life (well some more than others - especially the ones with big Landy Loans). If you enjoy our chatting then you're welcome to stay but remember this is a Land Rover Owner Mailing List and we're going to be talking about Land Rovers. Don't bag the vehicles we choose to care about just because you see a bigger picture. We all do but in here.....Life is Land Rover! Best regards Tiffany Tiffany Downing ******************************************** Co-ordinator, International Student Programs TAFE South Australia, AUSTRALIA Phone: (61 8) 226 3202 Fax: (61 8) 226 3655 E-Mail: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au ******************************************** From TONY YATES Tue Oct 10 09:53:07 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:53:07 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: New Jeep It really is hard not to be smug when one drives the best 4x4xfar :-) Seriously though, a litle friendly rivalry between makes does no harm, but it doesn't pay to be too one eyed, for as the proverb goes - smugness comes before a fall. Take the case of my friend who bogged his SIII 109 up to the chassis in a custard filled salt pan near Monkey Mia. There were 6 young able bodies in the vehicle and we even had a Hi-lift and a shovel and we were only 3 feet from solid ground .... three hours later we had not moved an inch and finally decided to swallow our pride and find a Toyonissan to pull us out. (My friend had by this time removed his "Don't be a stick in the mud - be a Land Rover Owner" T-shirt). Howevere the first vehicle we found happened to be a 110, rare in Oz, so our pride was saved. (there is a God). Then there was the chap in New Zealand who bogged his LR in a harbour, at low tide. It was still there at high tide. The next day the local Nissan dealer ran an ad in the paper with a photo of this and the caption along the lines of "He should have bought a Nissan". The NEXT day the dealer felt guilty for taking advantage and drove his brand new patrol into the harbour to rescue the LR. The last I heard they were both still there. As far as 4wd ability is concerned, most owners will never push their vehicles to their limits, no matter what they are, and I have seen Subarus outperform Landrovers simply due to a more skillful driver. I guess my point is that we LR owners are secure in the knowledge that we drive the best there is, and in LR circles - such as this list - we can good-naturedly criticise other lesser makes, but out there in the wider world it pays to let action speak louder than words. Sorry for rambling, it's another quiet day in Port Hedland. ========================================================== () ( ) () Tony Yates ( ) ( ) ( ) Bureau of Meteorology ( )( ) ( ) Port Hedland ( ) )( ) Western Australia ( ) ) -------- ------------ ph: (091) 401 350 \\\**\\**\ fax: (091) 401 100 \***\*\ \\*\ email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au \\ ========================================================== From "John C. White III" Mon Oct 9 19:33:59 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:33:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: New Jeep! Gasp! A heretic! I'll fetch wood for the fire, if someone else sets up the stake. :-) Cheers!From Mike Rooth Tue Oct 10 9:36:05 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 9:36:05 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: New Jeep Oh I say!Well said,old girl!Ahem. No need to draw and quarter the Jeep.It'll be a traffic bollard in ten years time. Perhaps it is worth pointing out that although the wartime Jeep may have provided the Wilkes brothers with a certain number of ideas(mainly,one gathers because of its shortcomings) the Land Rover was no more a copy than the Mitsubishi Type O was a copy of the Supermarine Spitfire.Unless,of course,having the same sized wheels and,in the case of the 80",wheelbase,made it a copy. If that be so,about the only vehicle that doesnt copy any other would be the Reliant Robin:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From Tom Stevenson Tue Oct 10 10:00:19 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:00:19 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: new jeep I think that the guy who lost his Land Rover on a New Zealand beach was caught out by the incoming tide because of an electrical fault rather than because he was bogged down. Does this sound typical? -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Tue Oct 10 10:36:03 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:36:03 +0100 From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Subject: Spin on oil filter adaptors I believe this was discussed some time ago, but anyway... Does anyone know of a European source for spin on oil filter adaptors for SIII 2.25 engines? I've just about had enough of the leaky oil filter assembly on my engine.. I looked into using a 2.5 adaptor, but the price turned out to be around 250£, and I believe someone makes an adaptor kit for the old type oilfilter mountings. Terje K. http://www.tvnorge.no/~terje/index.e.html - My homepage http://regina.uio.no/nlrk/index.e.html - Norwegian Land Rover Club pages 1972 SIII 88" >. From Danny Phillips Tue Oct 10 12:17:52 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 12:17:52 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Does anyone know of a good shrink for Ben has some sort of delusion Seriuosly, that incident in New Zealand, was published in the UK mags and the end part made us all smile. But locally there is a beach were people launch boats and them water bike jobbies (can't remember what they are called), just went for ride in the series iia with my mate as some of his windsurf buddies may have been down there. to cut a long story short, a suzuki vitara was stuck trying to pull out a trailer with a jet ski (remembered), big fat low profile tyres, no grip and no brain. well they asked if we would give them and their trailer a tug. so as the water was lapping at his back wheels i suggested that i try and tug them both at the same time. he was dubious, but despite, complete poo, road tyres we got him out quite easily, but he was not very happy when he saw a) the mud all up his car, and b) i told him not to tie the rope to his A bar. not my fault it bent, i wanted to use his lashing eye. my mate was so impressed, he has bought a 110 as a second car (1988) and it takes all his windsurf gear, with just the board on top. now i want a 90 or a 110 for off road. you just can't win can you.. unless a 101 (thinks aloud) danny From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 08:03:09 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 08:03:09 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Fuel Tanks from Famous Four? All, A while back there was a thread on repair/replacement of fuel tanks. I believe Famous Four was recommended as a source. (RN wants $400 for a new 109 SW tank.) Is a galvanised tank available? Anyone have FF's phone number or recommend another souce with reasonable prices for a good, new tank? Apologies in advance if the FAQs obviate this enquiry. Cheers, Hank From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 07:57:48 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 07:57:48 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: LRs in Bermuda All, Just had a very pleasant few days in Bermuda, despite the growing influence of American "culture" since I was last there. Sighted what appeared to be a Ninety with a reefer back end and a Series tow truck, out and about, with a 109 Police vehicle parked outside a small station in the west end. Thought that was all there was until passed by the Bermuda Regiment compound, in which were parked several LRs as well as the more common (for Bermuda) lighter stuff. Back in mid-80s, noted the RN had a number of Series vehicles at the naval fuelling depot, but it seems that's gone, as is the US Naval Air Station, where the EOD guys had an OD USN Rangey. Wife on back of moped: "What are you turning around for?" Hank on front of moped: "Thought I saw a Land-Rover back there." From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 07:47:43 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 07:47:43 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Re: Winchless I, too, am still waiting for parts from a subscriber who has cashed my checks 6 months ago, but seems too busy taking care of his own fun and projects than delivering his For Sale parts as promised. "Winchless" was awfully polite not to mention this fellow by name, but having already reminded the subject of this note at least once about the parts owed to me, I'm close to warning my fellow subscribers. So if you're reading this my friend, time to make things right. I want my Series parts, not my money back. Jeeps are famous, and you are almost infamous. Regards, Hank (It ain't libel if it's true) From Easton Trevor Tue Oct 10 08:59:00 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 08:59:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Oil Levels Jeremy Bartlet writes that his gearbox level has risen. Jeremy, I note you say the wading plug is in. Have you been wading lately? Try removing the drain plug after the vehicle has been standing for some time to check if you have been inadvertently adding water to your gearbox. We all carefully affix breathers to our axles but the gearbox vents are not much higher and can easily ingest water as it flows up and around the box, During the Darien Gap expedition one of the major supply items was transmission oil as they would change it after every significant wading excursion to remove the water. Trevor Easton, From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 09:51:03 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 09:51:03 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Re[2]: Fuel Tanks from Famous Four? Thanks Mike. Just phoned Famous Four and ordered the "exact copy" new tank for 99 Pounds, less VAT. Genuine was 245 Pounds. Hank (1960 Series II LWB SW) > Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks from Famous Four? > Author: Mike Rooth at Zeus [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > Cheers > Mike Rooth From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Tue Oct 10 09:20:04 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:20:04 -0700 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Yet another stupid P.O. trick Last spring the list was having a big discussion regarding Series heaters. I was reading this with interest because my '66 IIa has a kodiak heater, but I couldn't figure out why I was hardly getting any heat out of it. I decided that before this winter, I'd dive in and check the whole system out so I don't freeze again this year, starting with a cold weather thermostat from RN (on sale now). I discovered that someone had swapped the cable controls for temperature and fresh air - i.e. the water control valve and the damper! My whole problem was that if I pulled the temp control out, nothing would seem to change much. I thought the valve had rusted shut or the cable was broken or something. Looking through the P.O. logs, I found a reciept for a new heater core for it, I wonder if he was having the same problem... :-) He wasn't noted for his trouble shooting ability. Either that or his shop screwed it up (also not an unlikely situation). Looking forward to a warm(er) winter, Tim --- tim harincar moore graphics services harincar@mooregs.com minneapolis, mn '66 IIa 88 SW From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 10 95 Oct EDT 1909 Date: 10 Oct 95 9:53:38 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Overdrive whine - Is it supposed to? Now that Churchill is running well and stopping well, I've been driving him on some extended trips out and about. One thing I've noticed is that the overdrive is QUITE whiny when under power. Is this typical of the Fairey unit, or could it be a sign of a loose castellated nut or some other malady? Anthing over 60-65 is noisy...but can still hear the steeo! (I know, damned yuppie......8*)..) The lubricant levels are fine, and removing the top cover revealed gears that looked great, with no sign of chipped teeth or any such damage. Also, the synchros on it are smooth, going in and out with no problems at any speed. With the OD out, he's fine - OD in, he whines like the Enterprise's warp drive. Lastly, does anyone have a manul for the Fairey overdrive? I'd be quite willing to pay copy costs to get a copy of it for my files. aj" I love my Series IIa !"r Also, anybod got an idea of the speedo correction for 235-diameter tires vs. the 7.50s on a IIa? Seems to be about 5 MPH low..... -Alan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 10 95 Oct EDT 1911 Date: 10 Oct 95 11:19:11 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: New Jeep! Talk about asking for trouble... > if you do your research. By the way, the President of Land Rover North > America son owns a Sidekick. I guess all I am trying to say is be > respectful to all other four-wheels and don't live in your own litte world. Well, being a father myself I am aware how sons have a tendency to rebell and oppose their fathers on practically every issue, I guess it's part of growing up and becoming a man. When they eventually do, they usually come to their senses again - so, there's still hope for the son of the President of Rover North... Respectful - oh, but yes, I have great respect for people who dare go offroading to remote areas all alone in something like Jeeps or Suzukis, really gutsy! Nothing for cautious, security-minded people like me... Little world... ok, I agree that the Earth is one of the smaller planets of our solar system, but for the time being there still seems to be enough room for Land Rovers and their owners to enjoy themselves; others of course may be more limited in the terrain they have to choose from. Actually, I would advise *Jeep* owners to stay in their own little world, because I have a very sad story to tell (tongue-almost-coming-through-cheek): About 4 years ago the 'Frankfurt Jeep Club' got in contact with us and asked if we would like to have regular offroad meets together with them, as they, just like B.K.Fenwick, thought it silly for each group to keep entirely to themselves. Much to their surprise we didn't object at all and subsequently had some very nice offroad runs, outdoor BBQ's, camping in the woods etc. Now, almost five years later, the Jeep club is on the verge of extinction because two-thirds of them have meanwhile bought... LAND ROVERS! They all caught the Land Rover virus!! So, offroad-clubs, be warned... Stefan From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Oct 10 08:32:18 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 08:32:18 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Cheers Taffiny!!! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Cheers Taffiny!!! That's a great rebuttal Tiffany! (I hope I spelled your name right...) I've owned Jeeps and Scouts, both good vehicles, but not Land Rover's. Until I actually owned one I didn't really know. Before I bought my 1st LR ('94 Disco) I started researching for about 6 months. Libraries, magazine articles, trips to various dealers, (Actually only Toyota and LR, I had narrowed it down to these two.) and numerous questions directed towards both the LRO list and an "offroad" list. (No, I'm not "the infamous Tayler"). I just figure that anyone who criticizes LR's is just un-educated and/or miss-informed. LR doesn't exactly over advertise! BTW, I've spent my share of time fixing broken Scout axles and doing Jeep repairs, enough to say that I *am* capable of judging these two vehicles as inferior to LR's. Again, great reply. P.S. I *had* to run out and buy the 4-wheeler magazine with the D90 poster. Looks great! Thanks Michael! (Nice Mog too!) #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") $8500 bargain #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Oct 10 13:14:06 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 13:14:06 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: leaky traNS Hi all. Here's a good one. A friend took his SerIIa to a local garage that claims to know landies. His problem was a clutch that didn't work too well. The mechanic said he thought it was the throwout bearing getting stuck. We have since ascertained that the problem is due for the most part to bad clutch cylinders, since you haveto pump them up to get pressure and then it quickly fades. So here's the real problem. The mechanic said he would add something to the brake/clutch reservoir that would swell the rubber. It did. That's the first problem. (it didn't fix anything, it just made the rubber "balloon" up to twice its size!) Problem number two: The gearbox now spews out about a teaspoon of oil every couple of seconds from the flywheel hole. The mechanic said he would try to "stick a coat hanger in there" and spray around some WD40 to loosen up the throwout bearing. Having looke at the service manual, I see there is a gasket between the front of the gearbox and the throwout bearing cover. I assume this is where his leak is. I can't find any reference to any other seals, in there, but we want to replace everything when the box comes out. Any ideas? Mucho Appreciado David Bobeck Washington DC dbobeck@ushmm.org From David Rosenbaum Tue Oct 10 10:27:10 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:27:10 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Hearing the radio (stereo) at speed On 10 Oct 1995, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Anything over 60-65 is noisy...but can still hear the stereo! Here in Seattle, the rainy season has begun. My NAS '94 D90 still has just the "surrey" top, so the dash and gauges get pretty wet in the rain. But I can tell without looking at the speedometer when I'm over 65 mph because I can no longer hear the radio. ( I do wipe the inside of the windshield so that I can see the road.) (Others may have a different calibration standard. My ears are 46 years old and spent a few years in the 60's and 70's too close to large speakers listening to not-too-good rock and roll while I was after all the beer I could get, hoping that some fine young woman would find me irresistable.......before I passed out) From don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Tue Oct 10 11:01:23 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:01:23 -0700 From: don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Subject: alternators!! I want to upgrade my 20amp generator from my 66 SWB to a 60-70 amp alternator with a regulator. I was thinking about putting a ford alternator in but I don't know how easy it fits. Is there an alternator which fits right in and how does it plug in to bypass the old regulator box?????? From (Tom Rowe) Tue Oct 10 14:06:02 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 14:06:02 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: leaky traNS On Tue, 10 Oct 95 13:14:06 EST David Bobeck wrote: > Hi all. > Here's a good one. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > thought it was the throwout bearing getting stuck. > Any ideas? First, If it's IIA it likely doesn't have a throwout bearing (at least in the usual sense). Second, the mechanic seems to be in to cobb jobs. Intentionally ruin your clutch system seals? Well, he owes you a system rebuild. There are some rather stringent consumer protection laws in your area if I recall. Third, spray silicone in the area of a friction disk? Doesn't sound real bright to me. Rebuild the clutch hydraulic system & send the mechanic the bill. And hope he didn't get WD40 on the disk. If he did you may be able to remedy it with BrakeKleen. As for the leak, you didn't say if it was for sure gear oil or motor oil, they smell very different. That will tell you where the leak is from. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From (Tom Rowe) Tue Oct 10 14:15:39 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 14:15:39 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Wisconsin alumni (not LR realted exactly) Someone on this list (from VA I think) sent me a story about thier grandparents (both UW alum) and how they met. I've missplaced the file since my HD crashed. Please send it to me and I'll forward it to the UW alumni assoc. (I found their address). Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 14:10:47 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:10:47 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Weber Carb Tuning Stuart H. Moore writes: > A friend has a weber carb. conversion on his series III and is having problems with hesitation and general rotten running. Does anyone out there have a book on the carb. that would have good directions on how to properly tune it. Pierce USA makes an intake manifold for the LR 2.25L engine using the Weber carburetor. These guys are Weber specialists for all cars and have replacement parts and jets for proper tuning. They also have a Weber rebuild, diagnosing and tuning book for about $20 which is "The Bible". Contact Pierce at Tel. 408-842-6667 or 800-874-3728 These guys and other high performance US aftermarket manufactures are listed on the Land-Rover Connection WWW page maintained by Mike Hoskins at http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Andre_Maier@mindlink.bc.ca (Andre Maier) Tue Oct 10 14:26:37 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 14:26:37 -0700 From: Andre_Maier@mindlink.bc.ca (Andre Maier) Subject: West Coast Challenge The West Coast Challenge will be on the 14th and 15th of this month near Deroche(wingdam). Saturday will be the trials event and it starts at 9 am Sunday will be the sasquatch traverse run. Camping is available at wingdam. For more info call Bill Lange at 430 6991 or Andre Maier at 951 3214 or fax at the same number. From David Place Tue Oct 10 17:03:53 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:03:53 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Other British Vehicles I hope I don't get a lot of hate mail, but I can't find a source of Austin parts in North America. Can someone please E-Mail me direct with a source State Side or in Britian. Thanks Dave VE4PN From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Tue Oct 10 17:11:58 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 17:11:58 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Stamps For Sale Thanks to all of you who have replied to my posting of stamps for sale, msg 13608. I am going to extend the dealine though as interest seems to be high and I would like to give everyone a chance to get in on it. So this Friday 13th at midnight will be the deadline. later, Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 17:32:00 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:32:00 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge Andre Maier writes: >The West Coast Challenge will be on the 14th and 15th of this month near >Deroche(wingdam). The first part of the 'Challenge' is to determine which West Coast. Sooo... select a country with subscribers: 1. Australia 2. California* 3. Canada 4. Germany 5. Hong Kong (aka China) 6. Netherlands 7. New Zealand 8. Norway 9. South Africa 10. Sweden 11. Switzerland 12. United Kingdom 13. United States 14. Other (..sorry if I missed any) *Not really a country (yet!), but hey, with the world's seventh largest economy... -Michael (If it's Tuesday it must be... ?) Carradine cs@crl.com From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Tue Oct 10 22:14:09 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:14:09 -0400 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Richmond Raves Rover Rally Just got my copy of the last week's Richmond Times Dispatch covering the Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally. Good story. Good photos. Good work, Sandy. Chris Stevens 1969 88" IIA SW 2.25 BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland, USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Spenny@aol.com Tue Oct 10 23:04:13 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:04:13 -0400 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: New Jeep Mike writes: EXACTLY! So, what do we do??? Draw and quarter this guy's Jeep?? Naw, just wait and it will rust itself away. spenny From Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> 11 95 Oct EDT 1900 Date: 11 Oct 95 00:08:11 EDT From: Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Bat Fastards Having bought bulk orders from many outfits in England, I can categorically tell you that Bat Fastards is the lowest grade quality in the industry. Although they handle calls very businesslike, they do not meet promised deadlines. The owner of the LandRover Supermarket and Bat Fastards were once partners, and started Bat Fastards to try and meet the low end market demand. I have seen springs from them, and although they are made in England, they are definately not made of British Steel or to British Specs. The price does reflect that fairly, as you get what you pay for. My suggestion to you : changing them is a pain - pay the extra and get the quality! Good Luck! Cheers Leslie '56 Series I 86" Trialer "Big Bird" '58 Series II 88" "Scouser" '69 Series IIa 109 5 door "Cheez burger" in paradise For Sale '62 Series IIa 109 regular "Everton" '65 Series IIa Military 88" "Cedrych" From "John C. White III" Tue Oct 10 22:00:56 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:00:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge Well, Andre's e-mail address ends in "ca," which is Canada. I'll guess Canada. What do I win? Cheers! John San Francisco, California "Republic" (Well it says "California Republic" on the state flag.) On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Andre Maier writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)] > -Michael (If it's Tuesday it must be... ?) Carradine > cs@crl.com From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 22:22:31 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:22:31 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge John C. White III writes: >Well, Andre's e-mail address ends in "ca," which is Canada. I'll guess >Canada. Oooh poo!! A correct answer already. I knew you couldn't get it by the town/area names mentioned ---too obscure, or by the country or area codes given ---there weren't any! Actually I was hoping all that smoke about "CA"lifornia would be diversionary (Rovers are too smart for that!). >What do I win? A personal invitation to visit with Andre at the West Coast Challenge, and to do a write-up with photos for the lro list, Left Coast Rover list, Aluminum Workhorse, Rover Runner, Ottowa Valley Newsletter, LRO and LRW. Congradulations!!! You have met the first 'Challenge'. -Michael (If it's Tuesday it must be... ?) Carradine cs@crl.com From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 23:14:22 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:14:22 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Say it ain't so, Jimmy? Jimmy, Could you quell the rumor that as your first official act as new editor of LROA/NA's Aluminum Workhorse you plan on renaming this classic magazine and correct it's title to 'Birmabright Workhorse'?? Anxiously waiting, _____ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ __________________________________________________________________From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 11 95 Oct EDT 1904 Date: 11 Oct 95 04:35:06 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Check yer rod... Had a very unhappy RR owner at the workshop yesterday (no, it wasn't me for a change) who was close to tears because he had had his front brakes plus shocks repaired/overhauled/replaced etc. for an unspeakable amount of money because the beast was pulling to the left when braking. Well, it still was, and his garage had more or less given up on the vehicle, telling him things like "that's what you get for buying an english car..." We couldn't accept this argument of course, so we had another good look at everything, plus a high-speed test drive on the autobahn. There obviously was something wrong, but it couldn't be the brakes, because it also pulled left when *accelerating* (??), and had a noticeable jerky sway at high speeds. We proceeded to check out the entire steering setup and alignment, and there it was: The left hand side track rod (tie rod, or whatever) end was dry and had play like we've never seen it before. Replaced a $ 18.- rod end, corrected the alignment, and the problem was gone. You'd think that a garage worth it's salt would find a defect like that... maybe they didn't want to find it? What was that slogan... "Rip U off while U wait" Stefan From Danny Phillips Wed Oct 11 11:03:12 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 11:03:12 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Steering Relay To the chap who has had his steering relay explode on him, i would suggest you buy a new one rather than try and fix it. The guys who fitted my new one told me toi do it that way so i got a new steering relay from craddocks for about 47 quid, (recon only 5quid cheaper) and they fitted it for about 15 (the mechs) i was well impressed, i could go round corners like a car not a boat, i.e. throw the wheel over and wait for her to come round. From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Oct 11 07:12:25 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 07:12:25 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: leaky traNS Dave... #1 - Get rid of that idiot of a mechanic!! 'nuff said. #2 - Rebuild or replace the clutch master and slave cylinders. Replace the flexible line that attaches to the slave. If this truck has a common resevoir for the clutch and brake he'll probably have to do the same with all the brake hydraulics. All the hydraulic lines will need to be flushed out to remove any trace of whatever crap the idiot added. Refill with CASTROL brake fluid. If you have replaced all the hydraulics and completely cleaned the pipes, you can use silicon brake fluid (more $$$) but whatever you use DON'T use just any old brake fluid - no matter what it says about DOT 4 or DOT 5 or whatever. Someone here on the list will say differant, I'm sure. My personal experience after owning British cars for over 20 years is that if you use anything but Castrol, you're asking for trouble. #3 - What type of oil is coming out of the "flywheel hole"??? Engine oil or 90 Wt??? Smell it. I know you know what 90 Wt smells like!! :) If it's engine oil, chances are it's the rear main seal on the engine. That would be my guess, anyway. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Oct 11 07:12:34 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 07:12:34 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: alternators!! The most common non-lucas alternator conversion is using a Delco (GM) unit. I have a crude diagram for a bracket adapter which lets you fit a Delco in place of the generator easily. The diagram is in BMP format and UUENCODED. Also have detailed instructions on conversion for the electrics. If you can handle the diagram (via E-MAIL) I'll sent it all, otherwise, it can go via snail-mail.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From Easton Trevor Wed Oct 11 07:54:00 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 07:54:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Emulations Mike Rooth wrote "about the only vehicle that doesnt copy any other would be the Reliant Robin:" Thank goodness nobody copies the Reliant Robin Trevor Easton From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Oct 11 07:52:58 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 07:52:58 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Booby trap John sez... > I was preparing Loftys new frame in the garage this evening while he .....snip...... > that inside that gizzmo there is this bloody great spring. (and other > things) It flew apart and scattered the parts all over the garage. Well > now I've been and changed some items of clothing, and had a smoke I have a > few questions. / Letsee... OH, SHIT! Was probably your expression, or at least the contents of your pants.... Glad to hear that you didn't get punctured or anything! > 2. Could somebody tell me how to get the cast steel body out of the cross > member, (it's stuck) / I think you need to press it out. A hydraulic jack or a porta-power would work nice, if you can figure out how to clamp it all down in the process. As far as putting it back together - there are a couple of methods in the workshop manuals. One involves special clamps to hold the spring compressed. Both methods look pretty scary. Personally, I would opt for a new one, if I could afford it. Cheers Mike From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 11 95 Oct EDT 1908 Date: 11 Oct 95 8:35:39 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Re: Emulations >Mike Rooth wrote "about the only vehicle that doesnt copy any other >would be the Reliant Robin:" >Thank goodness nobody copies the Reliant Robin >Trevor Easton Somebody mind filling in the rest of the Real World (and the US) on whatthehell a Reliant Robin is ? -Alan From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 11 95 Oct EDT 1908 Date: 11 Oct 95 8:42:31 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Diesel parts available I havwe a full fuel system available from my Diesel engine (which is presntly in Dale Desprey's hands in Otowa). It consists of: CAV injection pump with 77,000 miles on it 4 freshly adjusted and cleaned injectors Piping between the two hosing and dual filter unit I'm looking for 400 for the whole set, and will consider other offers. Shipping is your call on this item - I figure it's 10 to 15 kilos of stuff. I would also consider a swap for a 3/4 tilt for a 109 (yeah, dream on.....) I also have a good Diesel starter for sale from the same engine for $200. Email me, or call me at 617-693-5635 (my office). -Alan From "John C. White III" Wed Oct 11 05:59:16 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 05:59:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge Photos for the lists, eh? That reminds me of a radio disk jockey some years back who would return from vacation with slides he took while gone. It being radio all you heard was the sound of the slide projector's carrousel mechanism going round and his narration of what/who the subject of the slide being "shown" was. I guess you had to be there. Anyway, I'm afraid I haven't the time to do the trip up to Canada. It's not that far really (about 1,000 miles), but sometimes the world is too much with me late and soon. Sigh. Cheers! John '95 Discovery San Francisco, California On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > John C. White III writes: > >Well, Andre's e-mail address ends in "ca," which is Canada. I'll guess [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)] > -Michael (If it's Tuesday it must be... ?) Carradine > cs@crl.com From Dixon Kenner Wed Oct 11 09:37:47 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 09:37:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Emulations On 11 Oct 1995, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Somebody mind filling in the rest of the Real World (and the US) on whatthehell > a Reliant Robin is ? -Alan A little three wheeled car available in the UK. Most commonly seen in North America on episodes of Mr. Bean as the nemesis of his yellow Mini. (Parking garage scene demonstrates their stability). Kinda cute actually... From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Oct 11 08:32:56 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 08:32:56 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Ottawa Christian Szpilfogel writes: >Just thought I'ld mention that Ottawa is not spelled Ottowa though my >Rover dealerhship wished it did (i.e. Otto's). I've noticed it a >couple of times so I thought it was worth pointing out. My most humble apologies. I should pay more attention to the names of our respected native north american tribes --must be the germanic influence of Unimogs that has me thinking 'Otto' :) I'll try and reprogram the spell-checker (me!). _____ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Mike Rooth Wed Oct 11 15:58:58 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 95 15:58:58 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Emulations Sorry,folks,I'd temporarily forgotten that the Reliant Robin was a solely English excursion into the utterly naff. To add to Dixon's remarks,its a three wheeler,two at the back,one at the front,front wheel drive(I think). The bodyshell is glassfibre,and the engine is about 750cc. Its reason for being is that in the UK you can drive a three wheeler on a motor cycle licence,but you cant drive a car.Not a proper car that is.Its a sort of modern equivalent to the motor bike/sidecar setup,but with a heater. Due to the extremely light body the little buggers can go remarkably fast.One bloke over here souped one up and was clocked by the constabulary at well over the ton.In fact, he went so fast that the pursuing patrol car gave up chasing him,and radioed ahead for a roadblock.They reckoned it was for safety reasons on the Robins part,*I* reckon they just didnt want to admit that they couldnt catch him with their big boy's toy.The magistrate let him off with a fine.He thought it was so funny that the bloke deserved leniency.So did the cops. Not to be confused with the original Morgan three wheeler. This had two at the front one at the back(late twenties,early thirties)chain drive to the wheel,and a vee twin motor bike engine mounted externally at the front.Engines varied from 650cc to 1100cc.It had a vee winshield and/or aero screens. Looking at one approaching(as I once did) with the driver wearing a leather WW2 flying jacket and leather helmet and flying goggles,you think that all that is missing is a pair of Spandau machine guns side by side on the stubby little bonnet,and you have the Red Barons automobile. Neither of them are much good off road,though,although I beleive an AA man had to rescue one from the middle of a moor somewhere,using his D90.A Robin that is.The Morgans are *far* too valuable now to risk that sort of silly trick. Cheers Mike Rooth From "Sean McInerney" 11 1995 Oct -0500 1912 Date: 11 Oct 1995 12:26:54 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: STUCK THROTTLE....AHHHHHH! STUCK THROTTLE....AHHHHHH! Now we all know that Rovers are renowned for their durability and the ability to clamber over just about anything. Well mine recently fell ill after an encounter with a speed bump! Mind you, I did not hit it that fast, fearing more for my spine than the integrity of the Rover. Well after the characteristically stiff-legged WHAM! going over this square-edged speed bump, my motor began to rev (I had the clutch disengaged). I now am able to fully close the throttle by pushing *UP* on the accelerator. I have been unable to locate any obviously broken or mangled spring in the linkages. Perhaps, something slipped out of adjustment....I also have a hand throttle (the toothed horizontal type). Not being able to idle is becoming a big pain in the...... My Rover is a 1963 IIa with a Weber single-barrel. The lever arm on the carb. now remains about 1/8 - 1/4" from its stop UNLESS, of course, I push *UP* on the accelerator (no effect on returning to idle with the hand throttle. I know this sounds like a dopey problem, but I am currently without a clue and would really like to avoiding taking it in to a garage. Thanks in advance, Sean C. McInerney 1963 88" SIIa.....currently ROARING to every stop! NOTE: The effect is quite intimidating. From David Rosenbaum Wed Oct 11 10:27:36 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 10:27:36 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Re: STUCK THROTTLE....AHHHHHH! Dear Sean, First, check the undercarriage to make sure you didn't run over a lion which is now trapped in the chassis! Best wishes, David From Dixon Kenner Wed Oct 11 13:30:59 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:30:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Emulations On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Mike Rooth wrote: > remarkably fast.One bloke over here souped one up and was > clocked by the constabulary at well over the ton. Over a ton in a *Robin*? So, there's hope for the 109 short of JATO's I guess. BTW, What was this chap on when he was caught? At those speeds I'm amazed it didn't take off and roll... Either nerves of steel or completely insane. (Well, he did do this to a Robin...) So, what's a Robin cost these days? It would fit in the back of a 109 coming over, or more accurately a 101... Customs would think the importer was insane... From belane@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Belanger Eric) Wed Oct 11 14:17:30 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 14:17:30 -0400 From: belane@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Belanger Eric) Subject: Where to purshace LR I am planning to travel extensively throughout Africa for 12-18 months next year. I was thinking of purchasing a LR(used) with my wife and then re-importing it back to Canada. Where would it be cheapest to make such a purchase. We would be willing to fly to London in necessary and drive down to the Ferry in Gibraltar if nessecary. Could you also include an approximate list of prices for used LWBs serie III in the UK. I was also told the R.N. sold them as surplus. If this is correct does anybody know in what state and for how much. We will both be on a recently-graduated-but-must see-world-before-working budget so any hints or help would be greatly apriciated. Thank you in advance Eric Belanger Departement des sciences economiques Universite de Montreal From ROLLINSM@newouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Wed Oct 11 14:24:09 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 14:24:09 EDT From: ROLLINSM@newouvaxa.cats.ohiou.edu Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest From "Soren Vels Christensen" Wed Oct 11 20:58:02 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 20:58:02 -0600 (CST) From: "Soren Vels Christensen" Subject: Re: Emulations In message Wed, 11 Oct 95 15:58:58 BST, Mike Rooth writes: > Sorry,folks,I'd temporarily forgotten that the Reliant Robin > was a solely English excursion into the utterly naff. > To add to Dixon's remarks,its a three wheeler,two at the etc... I saw one of those. On "It's not the nine o'clock news". Two business looking men drive up and park next to one another. They get out and Mel says "Check this" and press the button on the infrared remote control. Pop, the car is invisible. "Cute" says Griff and press the button on his IR RC. Pop, the car is a Robin. "No one would ever want to steal _that_". rgds sv/aurens From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 11 95 Oct EDT 1916 Date: 11 Oct 95 16:28:06 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Booby trap > the next thing was to give it a bit of tap with a soft hammer. Did you know > that inside that gizzmo there is this bloody great spring. (and other > things) It flew apart and scattered the parts all over the garage. Well You were damn lucky. This spring can go right through your head if you stand in the way... The steering relay is not a thing to be fooled around with. > 1. Is this a common area for rust If you drive a lot in salty winter conditions - yes. > 2. Could somebody tell me how to get the cast steel body out of the cross > member, (it's stuck) Well, it's *meant* to be stuck, otherwise it wouldn't give you a secure pivotal point for steering. Spray it with rust solvent 3 times a day for a week. It might eventually come out with the wack of a mallet. But there have been cases where the thing was rusted solid to the extent that it had to be cut out of the frame and a new crossmember welded back in. > 3. How will I compress the spring to get this thing-a-ma-jig back together again If you want to do it without risking your life again you a) need the Churchill special tool #600536 , and b) have to be a hard-handed SOB weighing at least 90 kilos, otherwise that spring will just make fun of you. You should also have the workshop manual to see how exactly it is reassembled. If you botch this thing up, your steering can suddenly freeze, or loose connection to the wheels altogether. Either is bad. Enjoy, Stefan From Ted VanDecar Wed Oct 11 13:36:29 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 13:36:29 -0700 From: Ted VanDecar Subject: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Would someone send me Tuesday's (October 10) digest? The PC crashed! After lurking here for a few months, the LR of choice is a 1994 D90. Warm regards, Ted Van Decar From "Francis J. Twarog" Wed Oct 11 17:28:43 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 17:28:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Francis J. Twarog" Subject: Re:Range Rovers Went down to New York last week to check out a 1978 RR 2 door listed for $8000 - didn't take much to get it down to $5000, but that was still too much considering the transmission work, rust, etc.etc. The fact of the matter is, I am looking for a daily driver and not another project car (already have 2.5 Land Rovers to take care of those urges). So, yet again, I appeal to those who know of anyone that might be selling (or considering selling) a low mileage 1987 or '88 Range Rover. Please email me or give me a call at (802) 864 - 0936. (Preferably, a car located in New England). I'd very much appreciate it. BTW - I saw two wonderful examples of nice Rovers getting destroyed due to either inexperienced off-roaders or just plain bad luck! The first was a LWB Range Rover sent from Maine to the local LR dealer for repairs - this one had managed to find its way deep into salt water, on it's side about 100 feet from the trail/road. From the damage, it looks like *excessive* speed was the culprit - as far as I know, the driver was unscathed. The next was also in for repair, this time a yellow Def 90 whose front driver's wheel was jammed a full 2 feet backward into the drivers side doorpost!! It appears, again, that speed was responsible, as the truck dropped off into a ditch too fast (there were tire tracks left on the INSIDE wheel well) - from the looks of it, I would guess that the passengers got away with only a major case of whiplash. Frank Twarog Burlington, VT From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Wed Oct 11 18:08:17 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:08:17 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: 1991 Range Rover for sale The local flea market/car dealer magazine has a 1991 Range Rover for sale at $19,000. They say it has leather and all options, which probably makes it a County and not a Hunter model. From the tiny B&W photo it looks like the right side is in good shape, and it must be a dark color. Being sold by Independent Mercedes 510-932-0685, probably Walnut Creek --20 min. east of San Francisco. Other than that, you're on your own :) _____ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover Connection 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From Oscar Montelibano Thu Oct 12 09:43:58 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:43:58 +0800 From: Oscar Montelibano Subject: airconditioning problems on RR Help guys........ Am in the Philippines with an American spec'd. '89 Range, service manuals and no LR dealerships. The airconditioning conked out, doesn't cool at all. The only thing we could do to get the a/c working again was to *bypass* the ECU by jumping one of the relays. Thought everything was hunky dory until........one rainy day when it got too cold. Used the temperature control and found out in no longer worked. Its at max cooling all the time now. The appropriate sensors and relays are in working order and no short/crossed wires anywhere. We suspect it must be something in the ECU but no way to check it here. Thanks. Oscar Oscar Montelibano omont@mnl.sequel.net 75247.2423@compuserve.com From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 11 95 Oct EDT 1921 Date: 11 Oct 95 21:59:17 EDT From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Steering idler. Leonard John writes , how to reassemble a steering idler. first, do not waste your time trying to remove the casing, you will probably do more damage to the frame. Search your garage for the shaft, a spring and 4 half bearings made from a phenolic material.and a couple of brass washers Place two of the bearing halves on the shaft and hold them in position with a hose clip put the spring on the shaft against the bearing, early shafts have a hole through which you can fit a 3 mm dia bar, then rotate the spring to screw it past the bar. fit the other bearing halves and secure with a hose clip fit the assembly into the housing with one of the washers dropped in first, then as the assembly slides in the hose clip will be pushed up onto the spring where it can be removed. push the rest of the assembly into the hole until the top hose clip is pushed off of the top bearing. pour hypoid 90 into the top of the assembly, leave it for a few hours and top up the oil, leave it some more hours and top up the oil, continue until the oil level does not drop. place the top thrust washer in place and refit thte top plate, easy int it !! Warning " keep your head out of line with the spring " Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From Chris Haslam Wed Oct 11 22:22:47 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 22:22:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam Subject: 88 RR Swivel pin gaiter kit I have in my basement Land-Rover part RTC3826. Is this a gaiter kit for a RR or a LR? If it's for a LR, it's for sale, and who can tell me where I can find a kit for an 88 RR? Second question: Have the swivel pins, etc. ever changed on a RR (up to recent years)? I had a 79 RR, so the kit might be for that RR. ...chris 88 RR From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Wed Oct 11 23:20:33 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 23:20:33 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Hydraulic woes David Bobeck writes with problems with a friend's clutch. Oy. If there was a little problem before, there is a *major* problem now...especially if this is a Series II/IIa system with a common reservoir for the clutch and brake cylinders. In short - *the system is shot* TOTALLY. If the mechanic (and I use this term loosely so as not to offend bona fide technicians out there) does not do a *total* system rebuild pronto - and I hate to say this - see an attorney. The DC area is rife with 'em. You can't spit without hitting one. The dubious actions of putting some spurious substance in the fluid and spraying something else in the clutch housing will likely win *big* if you have to go as far as court. (Lessee, 'pain and suffering' oh yeah, should be good for a mil' or two.) OK...one more OJ joke: What did O.J. say to Marcia Clark on the way out of the courtroom? "Can I have my glove back now?" Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Oct 12 00:02:00 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:02:00 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Emulations Alan asks... Dixon answers... > > Somebody mind filling in the rest of the Real World (and the US) on > > whatthehell a Reliant Robin is ? -Alan > A little three wheeled car available in the UK. Most commonly / OK... Knew what it was... what about the Trabant?? Wasn't that a three wheeler or did it have four in a diamond pattern? Something did, just can't remember what... Cheers Mike From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Oct 12 00:02:19 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:02:19 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: STUCK THROTTLE....AHHHHHH! Sean McInerney sticks his throttle.... > characteristically stiff-legged WHAM! going over this square-edged speed > bump, my motor began to rev (I had the clutch disengaged). I now am able > to fully close the throttle by pushing *UP* on the accelerator. I have > been unable to locate any obviously broken or mangled spring in the / How about this... Disconnect the various throttle linkages, one by one, and check each section for binding or restrictions. There are three major pivot points.. the accelerator pedal, the long cross shaft and the bellcrank assembly mounted just below the steering box (this is a LHD Rover??). That's my two-cents worth. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From David Place Wed Oct 11 23:16:09 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 23:16:09 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: STUCK THROTTLE....AHHHHHH! Just where the first throtle arm joins to the flat bracket (this is hard to describe) there is a washer with a spring behind it. The washer is captivated by a hexagonal support and a nut. Losen the nut and rotate the hex shaped support so the spring gets tighter. This should solve the problem. If it doesn't then get a throtle spring, it looks like a weak screen door sping and attach one end to your oil stick and the other to the arm on the carb and you will have no more problems. Watch you don't tighten the spring so much you can't push down the gas pedal. Your foot will get very tired if you over tighten the spring. Dave VE4PN r From "Hugh Grierson" Thu Oct 12 17:25:26 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 17:25:26 +1300 From: "Hugh Grierson" Subject: Re: Steering idler. > [..snip..] how to reassemble a steering idler. > first, do not waste your time trying to remove the casing, you will probably do > more damage to the frame. [..snip..] So Bill, are you implying that the whole relay unit overhaul can be done with it still in the frame? Pulling the front grille panel off is no big deal if that's necessary. I've just replaced the last tie rod end that badly needed it (it had excessive play after only 2 month service - damn those cheap parts), and now the next source of play in the steering seems to be in the relay. The top nd bottom arms don't rotate completely in one plane, ie there's some tipping of the shaft in the relay. If overhaul kits are available, and if it can be done in place, then it *might* be worth thinking about fixing. In any case it's not too bad yet, but I'll keep an eye on it. It would be nice to know that I could do the job if and when it eventually becomes necessary. > Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile Cheers, Hugh -- Hugh Grierson hugh_grierson@trimble.co.nz From Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> 12 95 Oct EDT 1901 Date: 12 Oct 95 01:00:17 EDT From: Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Bat Fastards >>>> Larry Yes LR Supermarket is very much the same types of products and "attitude" of the owner sucks. Much of what they stock is Bearmach, and expensive Bearmach atFrom don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Thu Oct 12 00:43:31 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 00:43:31 -0700 From: don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Subject: Second Battery Second Battery, Would a second battery be recommended for a major power draw from a winch and x-tra lights even after an upgrade to a 66 amp alternator? Anybody got any input E-Mail me at the address below. Thanx, Don MacDonald E-Mail don@direct.ca 333 E. Braemar Rd. Voice (604) 988-6519 N.Vancouver B.C. Canada V7N 1R2 1966 Series IIA Petrol (Restoring) From Lloyd Allison Thu Oct 12 19:01:32 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:01:32 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: Reliant Robin I rather liked Reliants. Isn't there organised racing of Robins? There was also a rather futuristic Bond-Bug 3 wheeler, the canopy opened upwards and forwards (?), went very fast too, would have gone round corners fast if it had 4 wheels. Lloyd From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Thu Oct 12 05:34:10 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 05:34:10 -0500 (CDT) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: '96 Hardtop D90 Hmm---no responses to my pondering on the "prudence" (shouldn't be allowed to be used in the context of British cars) of purchasing a D90 hardtop. No opinions? Would I be better off getting a current D90 and fitting a hardtop to it? Any speculations on which will hold value better? (C'mon; we all have to think practically in order to rationalize these decisions). Seriously though, I would appreciate any opinions the group may share. Henry B. Wilson http://vumclib.mc.vanderbilt.edu/~wilsonhb '59 AHY 100-6 '94 Disco "The Healey's clean; the Rover's filthy. Life is perfect." From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Oct 12 11:43:18 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:43:18 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Where to purshace LR > I was thinking of purchasing a LR(used) with my wife and then > re-importing it back to Canada. Where would it be cheapest to make [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > also include an approximate list of prices for used LWBs serie III > in the UK. Daft as it sounds, try organising a deal to buy a vehicle in South Africa! Lots of people appear to drive down to S.A. and then try to flog their vehicle. This attracts a *huge* import tax - so a number are just abandoned. You should be able to get a good, reliable, runner which has done a few miles for a modest sum. Just my $0.02. Could our SA corrispondents cast some light here? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or Hero Figure: BOFH.. From LTC Larry Smith Thu Oct 12 7:23:54 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 7:23:54 EDT (1123Z) From: LTC Larry Smith Subject: Re: Bat Fastards Leslie, Thanks for the response. The LR Supermarket catalog just hit the trash! Larry From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Oct 12 12:49:01 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 12:49:01 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Reliant Robin > I rather liked Reliants. > went very fast too, would have gone round corners fast if > it had 4 wheels. The four wheeled version of the Robin is called a Kitten. The big advantage of a single turnable wheel is that the steering is nice and light - so if you have weak arms and find a normal car difficult to steer, you can go for a Robin instead of power-steering ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. or Hero Figure: BOFH.. From William Terry Thu Oct 12 08:30:54 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 08:30:54 -0400 (EDT) From: William Terry Subject: Re: Where to purchase a LR Eric Belanger writes: > I was thinking of purchasing a LR(used) with my wife I didn't think most places accepted barter these days. And I know that Land-Rovers are getting good prices, but I'm not sure they're worth that much. ;-) Bill ______________W__i__l__l__i__a__m_____D__a__n_____T__e__r__r__y______________ How do we acquire wisdom along with all these shiny things? (David Brin) wterry@sartre.minerva.bah.com http://glenfiddich.minerva.bah.com:8062/CyberJungle.html MINERVA Development Team, Booz, Allen & Hamilton From Easton Trevor Thu Oct 12 09:43:00 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 09:43:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: More on Robins Now the geneology of Reliant Robins has been clarified. Just one thought on Robins, Morgans and Bond Minicars for off road use. You can't get cross axled in a three wheeler!! I read once in Motor Sport of a Morgan that explored the wilds of the Pennines and was able to progress along quite bad tracks because the back (driving) wheel ran on the hump between the ruts. Even the uphill bits seemed like downhill. Trevor Easton From Dixon Kenner Thu Oct 12 09:43:19 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:43:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Emulations On Thu, 12 Oct 1995 LANDROVER@delphi.com wrote: > OK... Knew what it was... what about the Trabant?? Wasn't that a three > wheeler or did it have four in a diamond pattern? Something did, just can't > remember what... Trabant is the little 2 stroke East German car. One was featured in Car & Driver for a couple months after some visiting rock band/ record company gave it ti them & the EPA found out. Wanted it crushed pronto. They tested it on the Chrysler test track. Performance? Get a Mini or a Robin... Not sure what vehicle you are thinking about here, but a Trabant or two, or three should happily fit in that British Army of the Rhine 101 you bring over... (req. LR content) From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 12 95 Oct EDT 1910 Date: 12 Oct 95 10:16:54 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Shopping At the end of this month I will be travelling to the UK. While I am there I would love to stop in some of the LR shops and look around. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what store would be the most interesting? I will be near Liverpool and will stop in at the LR Supermarket,but I am wondering if there might be a more interesting place to shop. If anybody wants me to place an order for them while I am there I would be most happy to do so. I also will be spending a week in Belfast. Thanks for any help I can get. Benjamin G. Newman ser11A 1962 88'' ser11A 1967 109 NADA wagon 1995 RR 4.0 From Daniel Grambihler Thu Oct 12 07:25:31 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 07:25:31 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Grambihler Subject: Re: '96 Hardtop D90 Henry B. Wilson wrote: > Hmm---no responses to my pondering on the "prudence" (shouldn't be allowed > to be used in the context of British cars) of purchasing a D90 hardtop. No [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > think practically in order to rationalize these decisions). > Seriously though, I would appreciate any opinions the group may share. Henry - I stopped at the LR Dealer here (AZ) and they told me that they were getting 3 and that all 3 had deposits on them already. They had one of last years hardtops and took me out back to look at it. The hard- top is riveted to the body. It's an aluminum hardtop, with a full rear door and side seats (4) on the wheel wells. The front doors have windows that rool down and "real" door handles. The top also has a sun roof. The salesman told me that he had driven this vehicle back from San Jose (CA) and that the top started to hum at around 75-80 MPH. I *think* I heard a number like 500 being the total number that will be sold. I'm not sure where I got the number - perhaps I'm thinking of the last year for the D110. Anyway - if the D90 HT is anything like the D110, it should appreciate like crazy. I considered buying one (if I could find one) but I think that I would really miss being able to remove the top. Hope this helps - Daniel -- Daniel Grambihler danielg@eskimo.com GAT !d(--) -p+/-- c++++/--- l++ u++/- e+ m/+/++@ s-/ n--- h+ f* g-/+ w+ t+ r y++/--/** Coming soon: '95 D90 (today for sure!!!) From Andrew Birrell Thu Oct 12 16:23:54 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:23:54 +0200 (GMT+0200) From: Andrew Birrell Subject: Re: Where to purshace LR If one tries some of the "backpacker" lodges where overland travellers stay, you can usually find someone who wishes to sell a foreign registered LR. I do have a friend in London who has an SA registered Range Rover (he drove it from RSA to the UK), and is looking to sell it to someone wishing to drive it back to South Africa (who can then sell it without attracting the huge import duty). Contact me if you want his details Andrew Birrell Cape Town On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Mr Ian Stuart wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > > I was thinking of purchasing a LR(used) with my wife and then [ truncated by lro-digester (was 31 lines)] > or > Hero Figure: BOFH.. From Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) 11 1995 Oct GMT 1923 Date: 11 Oct 1995 23:22:52 GMT From: Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) Subject: Re: STUCK THROTTLE....AHHHHHH! Sean, Someplace near your throttle linkage, look around the throat on the outside of course, there is a return spring. This pulls you pedal and all of the linage up after you get of the pedal. You should see either the remnants of it or wear indications that it once was there. My dual Weber has one at the linkage on the shaft of the butterfly valve. Check that. The spring I am talking about is not part of the original Rover linkage but an add-on for the Weber. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies -- ......................................................................... WestNet, the Information Service for People with a Passion for this Place Modem: 406-442-3697 (28,800/8-N-1) Info via Internet: westnet@desktop.org Sponsored by Desktop Assistance, Inc. Info via Internet: info@desktop.org ......................................................................... From "Sean McInerney" 12 1995 Oct -0500 1909 Date: 12 Oct 1995 09:52:39 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Throttle Fixed........Thank Throttle Fixed........Thanks! Regarding my stuck throttle which was giving the Rover a bit too much enthusiasm for the rear bumpers of my fellow motorists..... Thanks for the input several of you offered to my revving dilemma. I disconnected successive linkages until I found the one with an incorrect degree of travel. I basically undid the nut securing it, gave it more travel in the direction of the idle position, and tightened it back up. Took about five minutes total....even took the time too do a quick idle adjustment. Yet another hurdle crossed. Again thanks for all the responses to what ended up being an incredibly simple problem. Sean C. McInerney 1963 88" SIIa ...purrs like a kitten, runs smooth as glass.... ...in other peoples dreams! From "Guzelis.Pete" 12 1995 Oct U 1908 Date: 12 Oct 1995 08:35:47 U From: "Guzelis.Pete" Subject: RE: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Anyone out there know of non-genuine air & oil filters for 94 Discovery models. Don't want to use anything other than the original but when I'm in the toolies it's best to have a second source in the event of. Appreciate data. _______________________________________________________________________________ From Mike Rooth Tue Oct 10 9:36:05 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 9:36:05 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: New Jeep Oh I say!Well said,old girl!Ahem. No need to draw and quarter the Jeep.It'll be a traffic bollard in ten years time. Perhaps it is worth pointing out that although the wartime Jeep may have provided the Wilkes brothers with a certain number of ideas(mainly,one gathers because of its shortcomings) the Land Rover was no more a copy than the Mitsubishi Type O was a copy of the Supermarine Spitfire.Unless,of course,having the same sized wheels and,in the case of the 80",wheelbase,made it a copy. If that be so,about the only vehicle that doesnt copy any other would be the Reliant Robin:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From Tom Stevenson Tue Oct 10 10:00:19 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:00:19 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: new jeep I think that the guy who lost his Land Rover on a New Zealand beach was caught out by the incoming tide because of an electrical fault rather than because he was bogged down. Does this sound typical? -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Tue Oct 10 10:36:03 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:36:03 +0100 From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Subject: Spin on oil filter adaptors I believe this was discussed some time ago, but anyway... Does anyone know of a European source for spin on oil filter adaptors for SIII 2.25 engines? I've just about had enough of the leaky oil filter assembly on my engine.. I looked into using a 2.5 adaptor, but the price turned out to be around 250#163#, and I believe someone makes an adaptor kit for the old type oilfilter mountings. Terje K. http://www.tvnorge.no/~terje/index.e.html - My homepage http://regina.uio.no/nlrk/index.e.html - Norwegian Land Rover Club pages 1972 SIII 88" >. From Danny Phillips Tue Oct 10 12:17:52 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 12:17:52 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Does anyone know of a good shrink for Ben has some sort of delusion Seriuosly, that incident in New Zealand, was published in the UK mags and the end part made us all smile. But locally there is a beach were people launch boats and them water bike jobbies (can't remember what they are called), just went for ride in the series iia with my mate as some of his windsurf buddies may have been down there. to cut a long story short, a suzuki vitara was stuck trying to pull out a trailer with a jet ski (remembered), big fat low profile tyres, no grip and no brain. well they asked if we would give them and their trailer a tug. so as the water was lapping at his back wheels i suggested that i try and tug them both at the same time. he was dubious, but despite, complete poo, road tyres we got him out quite easily, but he was not very happy when he saw a) the mud all up his car, and b) i told him not to tie the rope to his A bar. not my fault it bent, i wanted to use his lashing eye. my mate was so impressed, he has bought a 110 as a second car (1988) and it takes all his windsurf gear, with just the board on top. now i want a 90 or a 110 for off road. you just can't win can you.. unless a 101 (thinks aloud) danny From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 08:03:09 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 08:03:09 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Fuel Tanks from Famous Four? All, A while back there was a thread on repair/replacement of fuel tanks. I believe Famous Four was recommended as a source. (RN wants $400 for a new 109 SW tank.) Is a galvanised tank available? Anyone have FF's phone number or recommend another souce with reasonable prices for a good, new tank? Apologies in advance if the FAQs obviate this enquiry. Cheers, Hank From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 07:57:48 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 07:57:48 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: LRs in Bermuda All, Just had a very pleasant few days in Bermuda, despite the growing influence of American "culture" since I was last there. Sighted what appeared to be a Ninety with a reefer back end and a Series tow truck, out and about, with a 109 Police vehicle parked outside a small station in the west end. Thought that was all there was until passed by the Bermuda Regiment compound, in which were parked several LRs as well as the more common (for Bermuda) lighter stuff. Back in mid-80s, noted the RN had a number of Series vehicles at the naval fuelling depot, but it seems that's gone, as is the US Naval Air Station, where the EOD guys had an OD USN Rangey. Wife on back of moped: "What are you turning around for?" Hank on front of moped: "Thought I saw a Land-Rover back there." From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 07:47:43 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 07:47:43 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Re: Winchless I, too, am still waiting for parts from a subscriber who has cashed my checks 6 months ago, but seems too busy taking care of his own fun and projects than delivering his For Sale parts as promised. "Winchless" was awfully polite not to mention this fellow by name, but having already reminded the subject of this note at least once about the parts owed to me, I'm close to warning my fellow subscribers. So if you're reading this my friend, time to make things right. I want my Series parts, not my money back. Jeeps are famous, and you are almost infamous. Regards, Hank (It ain't libel if it's true) From Easton Trevor Tue Oct 10 08:59:00 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 08:59:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Oil Levels Jeremy Bartlet writes that his gearbox level has risen. Jeremy, I note you say the wading plug is in. Have you been wading lately? Try removing the drain plug after the vehicle has been standing for some time to check if you have been inadvertently adding water to your gearbox. We all carefully affix breathers to our axles but the gearbox vents are not much higher and can easily ingest water as it flows up and around the box, During the Darien Gap expedition one of the major supply items was transmission oil as they would change it after every significant wading excursion to remove the water. Trevor Easton, From hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Tue Oct 10 09:51:03 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 09:51:03 EST From: hlapa@Zeus.signalcorp.com Subject: Re[2]: Fuel Tanks from Famous Four? Thanks Mike. Just phoned Famous Four and ordered the "exact copy" new tank for 99 Pounds, less VAT. Genuine was 245 Pounds. Hank (1960 Series II LWB SW) > Subject: Re: Fuel Tanks from Famous Four? > Author: Mike Rooth at Zeus [ truncated by lro-digester (was 20 lines)] > Cheers > Mike Rooth From Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Tue Oct 10 09:20:04 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:20:04 -0700 From: Harincar@mooregs.com (Tim Harincar) Subject: Yet another stupid P.O. trick Last spring the list was having a big discussion regarding Series heaters. I was reading this with interest because my '66 IIa has a kodiak heater, but I couldn't figure out why I was hardly getting any heat out of it. I decided that before this winter, I'd dive in and check the whole system out so I don't freeze again this year, starting with a cold weather thermostat from RN (on sale now). I discovered that someone had swapped the cable controls for temperature and fresh air - i.e. the water control valve and the damper! My whole problem was that if I pulled the temp control out, nothing would seem to change much. I thought the valve had rusted shut or the cable was broken or something. Looking through the P.O. logs, I found a reciept for a new heater core for it, I wonder if he was having the same problem... :-) He wasn't noted for his trouble shooting ability. Either that or his shop screwed it up (also not an unlikely situation). Looking forward to a warm(er) winter, Tim --- tim harincar moore graphics services harincar@mooregs.com minneapolis, mn '66 IIa 88 SW From Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus 10 95 Oct EDT 1909 Date: 10 Oct 95 9:53:38 EDT From: Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus Subject: Overdrive whine - Is it supposed to? Now that Churchill is running well and stopping well, I've been driving him on some extended trips out and about. One thing I've noticed is that the overdrive is QUITE whiny when under power. Is this typical of the Fairey unit, or could it be a sign of a loose castellated nut or some other malady? Anthing over 60-65 is noisy...but can still hear the steeo! (I know, damned yuppie......8*)..) The lubricant levels are fine, and removing the top cover revealed gears that looked great, with no sign of chipped teeth or any such damage. Also, the synchros on it are smooth, going in and out with no problems at any speed. With the OD out, he's fine - OD in, he whines like the Enterprise's warp drive. Lastly, does anyone have a manul for the Fairey overdrive? I'd be quite willing to pay copy costs to get a copy of it for my files. aj" I love my Series IIa !"r Also, anybod got an idea of the speedo correction for 235-diameter tires vs. the 7.50s on a IIa? Seems to be about 5 MPH low..... -Alan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 10 95 Oct EDT 1911 Date: 10 Oct 95 11:19:11 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: New Jeep! Talk about asking for trouble... > if you do your research. By the way, the President of Land Rover North > America son owns a Sidekick. I guess all I am trying to say is be > respectful to all other four-wheels and don't live in your own litte world. Well, being a father myself I am aware how sons have a tendency to rebell and oppose their fathers on practically every issue, I guess it's part of growing up and becoming a man. When they eventually do, they usually come to their senses again - so, there's still hope for the son of the President of Rover North... Respectful - oh, but yes, I have great respect for people who dare go offroading to remote areas all alone in something like Jeeps or Suzukis, really gutsy! Nothing for cautious, security-minded people like me... Little world... ok, I agree that the Earth is one of the smaller planets of our solar system, but for the time being there still seems to be enough room for Land Rovers and their owners to enjoy themselves; others of course may be more limited in the terrain they have to choose from. Actually, I would advise *Jeep* owners to stay in their own little world, because I have a very sad story to tell (tongue-almost-coming-through-cheek): About 4 years ago the 'Frankfurt Jeep Club' got in contact with us and asked if we would like to have regular offroad meets together with them, as they, just like B.K.Fenwick, thought it silly for each group to keep entirely to themselves. Much to their surprise we didn't object at all and subsequently had some very nice offroad runs, outdoor BBQ's, camping in the woods etc. Now, almost five years later, the Jeep club is on the verge of extinction because two-thirds of them have meanwhile bought... LAND ROVERS! They all caught the Land Rover virus!! So, offroad-clubs, be warned... Stefan From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Oct 10 08:32:18 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 08:32:18 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Cheers Taffiny!!! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Cheers Taffiny!!! That's a great rebuttal Tiffany! (I hope I spelled your name right...) I've owned Jeeps and Scouts, both good vehicles, but not Land Rover's. Until I actually owned one I didn't really know. Before I bought my 1st LR ('94 Disco) I started researching for about 6 months. Libraries, magazine articles, trips to various dealers, (Actually only Toyota and LR, I had narrowed it down to these two.) and numerous questions directed towards both the LRO list and an "offroad" list. (No, I'm not "the infamous Tayler"). I just figure that anyone who criticizes LR's is just un-educated and/or miss-informed. LR doesn't exactly over advertise! BTW, I've spent my share of time fixing broken Scout axles and doing Jeep repairs, enough to say that I *am* capable of judging these two vehicles as inferior to LR's. Again, great reply. P.S. I *had* to run out and buy the 4-wheeler magazine with the D90 poster. Looks great! Thanks Michael! (Nice Mog too!) #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") $8500 bargain #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Oct 10 13:14:06 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 13:14:06 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: leaky traNS Hi all. Here's a good one. A friend took his SerIIa to a local garage that claims to know landies. His problem was a clutch that didn't work too well. The mechanic said he thought it was the throwout bearing getting stuck. We have since ascertained that the problem is due for the most part to bad clutch cylinders, since you haveto pump them up to get pressure and then it quickly fades. So here's the real problem. The mechanic said he would add something to the brake/clutch reservoir that would swell the rubber. It did. That's the first problem. (it didn't fix anything, it just made the rubber "balloon" up to twice its size!) Problem number two: The gearbox now spews out about a teaspoon of oil every couple of seconds from the flywheel hole. The mechanic said he would try to "stick a coat hanger in there" and spray around some WD40 to loosen up the throwout bearing. Having looke at the service manual, I see there is a gasket between the front of the gearbox and the throwout bearing cover. I assume this is where his leak is. I can't find any reference to any other seals, in there, but we want to replace everything when the box comes out. Any ideas? Mucho Appreciado David Bobeck Washington DC dbobeck@ushmm.org From David Rosenbaum Tue Oct 10 10:27:10 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 10:27:10 -0700 (PDT) From: David Rosenbaum Subject: Hearing the radio (stereo) at speed On 10 Oct 1995, Alan Richer/CAM/Lotus wrote: > Anything over 60-65 is noisy...but can still hear the stereo! Here in Seattle, the rainy season has begun. My NAS '94 D90 still has just the "surrey" top, so the dash and gauges get pretty wet in the rain. But I can tell without looking at the speedometer when I'm over 65 mph because I can no longer hear the radio. ( I do wipe the inside of the windshield so that I can see the road.) (Others may have a different calibration standard. My ears are 46 years old and spent a few years in the 60's and 70's too close to large speakers listening to not-too-good rock and roll while I was after all the beer I could get, hoping that some fine young woman would find me irresistable.......before I passed out) From don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Tue Oct 10 11:01:23 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 11:01:23 -0700 From: don@direct.ca (donald l. macdonald) Subject: alternators!! I want to upgrade my 20amp generator from my 66 SWB to a 60-70 amp alternator with a regulator. I was thinking about putting a ford alternator in but I don't know how easy it fits. Is there an alternator which fits right in and how does it plug in to bypass the old regulator box?????? From (Tom Rowe) Tue Oct 10 14:06:02 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 14:06:02 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: leaky traNS On Tue, 10 Oct 95 13:14:06 EST David Bobeck wrote: > Hi all. > Here's a good one. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > thought it was the throwout bearing getting stuck. > Any ideas? First, If it's IIA it likely doesn't have a throwout bearing (at least in the usual sense). Second, the mechanic seems to be in to cobb jobs. Intentionally ruin your clutch system seals? Well, he owes you a system rebuild. There are some rather stringent consumer protection laws in your area if I recall. Third, spray silicone in the area of a friction disk? Doesn't sound real bright to me. Rebuild the clutch hydraulic system & send the mechanic the bill. And hope he didn't get WD40 on the disk. If he did you may be able to remedy it with BrakeKleen. As for the leak, you didn't say if it was for sure gear oil or motor oil, they smell very different. That will tell you where the leak is from. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From (Tom Rowe) Tue Oct 10 14:15:39 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 14:15:39 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Wisconsin alumni (not LR realted exactly) Someone on this list (from VA I think) sent me a story about thier grandparents (both UW alum) and how they met. I've missplaced the file since my HD crashed. Please send it to me and I'll forward it to the UW alumni assoc. (I found their address). Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 14:10:47 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 14:10:47 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: Weber Carb Tuning Stuart H. Moore writes: > A friend has a weber carb. conversion on his series III and is having problems with hesitation and general rotten running. Does anyone out there have a book on the carb. that would have good directions on how to properly tune it. Pierce USA makes an intake manifold for the LR 2.25L engine using the Weber carburetor. These guys are Weber specialists for all cars and have replacement parts and jets for proper tuning. They also have a Weber rebuild, diagnosing and tuning book for about $20 which is "The Bible". Contact Pierce at Tel. 408-842-6667 or 800-874-3728 These guys and other high performance US aftermarket manufactures are listed on the Land-Rover Connection WWW page maintained by Mike Hoskins at http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From Andre_Maier@mindlink.bc.ca (Andre Maier) Tue Oct 10 14:26:37 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 14:26:37 -0700 From: Andre_Maier@mindlink.bc.ca (Andre Maier) Subject: West Coast Challenge The West Coast Challenge will be on the 14th and 15th of this month near Deroche(wingdam). Saturday will be the trials event and it starts at 9 am Sunday will be the sasquatch traverse run. Camping is available at wingdam. For more info call Bill Lange at 430 6991 or Andre Maier at 951 3214 or fax at the same number. From David Place Tue Oct 10 17:03:53 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:03:53 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Other British Vehicles I hope I don't get a lot of hate mail, but I can't find a source of Austin parts in North America. Can someone please E-Mail me direct with a source State Side or in Britian. Thanks Dave VE4PN From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Tue Oct 10 17:11:58 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 17:11:58 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Land Rover Stamps For Sale Thanks to all of you who have replied to my posting of stamps for sale, msg 13608. I am going to extend the dealine though as interest seems to be high and I would like to give everyone a chance to get in on it. So this Friday 13th at midnight will be the deadline. later, Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 17:32:00 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 17:32:00 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge Andre Maier writes: >The West Coast Challenge will be on the 14th and 15th of this month near >Deroche(wingdam). The first part of the 'Challenge' is to determine which West Coast. Sooo... select a country with subscribers: 1. Australia 2. California* 3. Canada 4. Germany 5. Hong Kong (aka China) 6. Netherlands 7. New Zealand 8. Norway 9. South Africa 10. Sweden 11. Switzerland 12. United Kingdom 13. United States 14. Other (..sorry if I missed any) *Not really a country (yet!), but hey, with the world's seventh largest economy... -Michael (If it's Tuesday it must be... ?) Carradine cs@crl.com From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Tue Oct 10 22:14:09 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:14:09 -0400 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Richmond Raves Rover Rally Just got my copy of the last week's Richmond Times Dispatch covering the Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally. Good story. Good photos. Good work, Sandy. Chris Stevens 1969 88" IIA SW 2.25 BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland, USA (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) chrisste@Clark.net From Spenny@aol.com Tue Oct 10 23:04:13 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:04:13 -0400 From: Spenny@aol.com Subject: Re: New Jeep Mike writes: EXACTLY! So, what do we do??? Draw and quarter this guy's Jeep?? Naw, just wait and it will rust itself away. spenny From Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> 11 95 Oct EDT 1900 Date: 11 Oct 95 00:08:11 EDT From: Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Bat Fastards Having bought bulk orders from many outfits in England, I can categorically tell you that Bat Fastards is the lowest grade quality in the industry. Although they handle calls very businesslike, they do not meet promised deadlines. The owner of the LandRover Supermarket and Bat Fastards were once partners, and started Bat Fastards to try and meet the low end market demand. I have seen springs from them, and although they are made in England, they are definately not made of British Steel or to British Specs. The price does reflect that fairly, as you get what you pay for. My suggestion to you : changing them is a pain - pay the extra and get the quality! Good Luck! Cheers Leslie '56 Series I 86" Trialer "Big Bird" '58 Series II 88" "Scouser" '69 Series IIa 109 5 door "Cheez burger" in paradise For Sale '62 Series IIa 109 regular "Everton" '65 Series IIa Military 88" "Cedrych" From "John C. White III" Tue Oct 10 22:00:56 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:00:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge Well, Andre's e-mail address ends in "ca," which is Canada. I'll guess Canada. What do I win? Cheers! John San Francisco, California "Republic" (Well it says "California Republic" on the state flag.) On Tue, 10 Oct 1995, Michael Carradine wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > Andre Maier writes: [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)] > -Michael (If it's Tuesday it must be... ?) Carradine > cs@crl.com From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 22:22:31 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 22:22:31 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge John C. White III writes: >Well, Andre's e-mail address ends in "ca," which is Canada. I'll guess >Canada. Oooh poo!! A correct answer already. I knew you couldn't get it by the town/area names mentioned ---too obscure, or by the country or area codes given ---there weren't any! Actually I was hoping all that smoke about "CA"lifornia would be diversionary (Rovers are too smart for that!). >What do I win? A personal invitation to visit with Andre at the West Coast Challenge, and to do a write-up with photos for the lro list, Left Coast Rover list, Aluminum Workhorse, Rover Runner, Ottowa Valley Newsletter, LRO and LRW. Congradulations!!! You have met the first 'Challenge'. -Michael (If it's Tuesday it must be... ?) Carradine cs@crl.com From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Tue Oct 10 23:14:22 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 23:14:22 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Say it ain't so, Jimmy? Jimmy, Could you quell the rumor that as your first official act as new editor of LROA/NA's Aluminum Workhorse you plan on renaming this classic magazine and correct it's title to 'Birmabright Workhorse'?? Anxiously waiting, _____ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Land-Rover Connection 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html From jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Wed Oct 11 18:35:12 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 18:35:12 +1200 From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Subject: Booby trap I was preparing Loftys new frame in the garage this evening while he sulked out in the car port. The frame appeared mint, (ex 79 LWB diesel) but I have found one area of corrosion under the battery shelf, the battery obviously has leaked at some stage. this area is around the steering box slave thingy that goes through the front cross member, so it needs to be repaired correctly. Well I proceded to undo these tiny bolts, top and bottom and 2 long bolts that hold a casting to the frame. A bit of oil leaked,..... well, the next thing was to give it a bit of tap with a soft hammer. Did you know that inside that gizzmo there is this bloody great spring. (and other things) It flew apart and scattered the parts all over the garage. Well now I've been and changed some items of clothing, and had a smoke I have a few questions. 1. Is this a common area for rust 2. Could somebody tell me how to get the cast steel body out of the cross member, (it's stuck) 3. How will I compress the spring to get this thing-a-ma-jig back together again thanks in advance John From Mike Rooth Thu Oct 12 15:34:11 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 15:34:11 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Flashers To all those who replied most helpfully re the problem of a permanently illuminated flasher warning light in S11A's. The cure turned out to be a new flasher unit.Which is to be expected,since if you look at the circuit diagram,otherwise known as a Land Rover wish list,the flasher unit is the one thing that cant *possibly* cause the effect.So that's what it must be.Simple,annit? Cheers Mike Rooth From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Thu Oct 12 10:04:40 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 10:04:40 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Locker installed in '87 RR, now I need steering track rod. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Locker installed in '87 RR, now I need steering track rod. Hello! I just installed a "Lock-Right" differential locker in my '87 RR last weekend, and soon after, while giving it a test run, I bent my steering track rod. I was able to bend it back into some resemblance of straightness, (had to remove it and wedge it into the slot on a huge trash bin, then with *much* effort, I was able to bend it. Large hammer and vice had no effect!) but I know that once it's been bent, it's weaker at that point and will bend again, even more easily. BTW I also managed to smash both the lights that "were" hanging from underneath the rear bumper. Broke both the housings, one is dangling by the wires! Stupid place for lights! But it came that way. I had wondered how long it would be before I destroyed them... now I know, about a month! (Did I mention I'm *not* the smartest man alive?) My question is this: Has anyone ever welded a length of angle iron along the length of the track rod for strength? I did this once on a '67 Dodge van and it worked for many years. (at least until I sold it.) Also, while I have your (collective) ear, Where can I get "Old Man Emu" suspensions for LR's? How about a catalogue? A phone number? (USA) I have the phone # from the LR FAQ for OME in Australia, looking for a more local source. (ARB in Seattle?) Jim Jackson, are you "there"? I'm also interested in locating things like skid plates. No relation to bending the track rod. ;-) Thanks all! Dave (All bent out of shape) Brown #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") $8500 bargain Rear lockers. #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From srae@bev.net (Susan Rae Henderson) Thu Oct 12 13:24:53 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:24:53 +0600 From: srae@bev.net (Susan Rae Henderson) Subject: for andi's eyes only >X-Sender: durablty@mail.vt.edu >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:06:07 -0500 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 48 lines)] >>I do not like them Sam I Am >>============================================= From (Tom Rowe) Thu Oct 12 12:35:55 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 12:35:55 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: Locker installed in '87 RR, now I need steering track Gee Dave. If Lockers cause this much damage when installed, maybe I'll re-think getting them. ;-) Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From ASFCO@aol.com Thu Oct 12 15:11:39 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:11:39 -0400 From: ASFCO@aol.com Subject: Sog /Leatherman Knife Some time ago I saw an article here regarding a Sog or Leatherman knife which comes with a belt pouch with the Land- Rover logo sewn in. This would make a good Gift and I'd like to know where its available would appreciate any assistance. Thanks............ From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Thu Oct 12 15:39:03 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:39:03 -0400 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Sog /Leatherman Knife >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >Some time ago I saw an article here regarding a Sog or Leatherman knife which [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >good Gift and I'd like to know where its available would appreciate any >assistance. Thanks............ Actually, I thought it was the Gerber Multiplier, and I believe it's available from Land Rover dealers. FYI, the SOG Paratool and the new "won't pinch your hands style " Leatherman are both superior tools, IMHO. To see why, use the Gerber to cut through a heavy piece of wire. *OUCH*, that blood blister where the pad of your hand got pinched between the handles looks awfully painful. No such problem with the SOG or the new Leatherman. (Old Leatherman has flush closing handles though, so make sure you buy the correct one.) Seriously, if you (or your recipient) plans on using the tool, skip the logo pouch and go for one of the other brands. Keep on Roverin' JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From morison@alumni.caltech.edu (Dark Dream Mists) Thu Oct 12 14:00:52 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:00:52 -0700 (PDT) From: morison@alumni.caltech.edu (Dark Dream Mists) Subject: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 I am close to buying a new Disco after much research. Up until this time everything I read confirmed that it is a good vehicle with bad fuel economy. In addition, I have been a bit concerned about slugishness in acceleration but I was willing to deal with that. Now I have read this report in Consumer Reports that stated during testing it had this problem, "The Discovery offers a relatively comforatable ride and full-time four wheel drive. It did the best in our off-road tests. But it's cursed with difficult access, an awkward driving position, long stopping distances on wet roads, and a V8 that manages to combine anemic acdeleration with miserable fuel economy." These are some more low lights it mentioned: "The four-speed auto transmission dosen't downshift readily, and the shift lever is stiff." "The steering feels a bit vague and slow in tight bends." "The Disco stopped reasonably well from 60 mph on a dry track, but it need 202 feet to stop on a wet track-among the worst performances we've measured in years, and truly surprising in a vehicle with anti- lock breaks." "Uneven pavement makes it rock incessantly." "The driveline whines audibly except on the highway, where tire hum and wind noise drown it out." "The pedals are too close to the seat and too far left." "The front seats feel lumpy and a bit too firm." "The seat lacks side support." "The power-window switches, on the center console, are illogically arranged and awkward to reach." "The rear 3-point safety belts are hard to buckle, and the shoulder portion rides on the neck of some occupants." Well, I can say that it did not get very good reviews. This is a list of the other vehicles they tested and it is in order of their best to worst overall scores. 1. Ford Explorer Limited (recommended model) 2. Toyota Land Cruiser (recommended model) 3. Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 4. Chevrolet Blazer LT 5. Isuzu Trooper (recommended model) 6. Land Rover Discovery 7. Mitsubishi Montero 8. Honda Passport (Isuzu Rodeo) *PLEASE* I want feedback. I am especially concerned with the stopping on wet pavement 202 feet! I just returned from England and Scotland and saw tons of Disco's everywhere. Most notable were the sightings in Edinburgh, they were everywhere... even used as airport vehicles. Now how can a vehicle that may have a bad breaking record be so popular in a region where it rains all the time? Janine morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu From russ burns Thu Oct 12 14:40:48 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:40:48 -0700 From: russ burns Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 The Land-rover is an off road vehicle, not a 2 inch of snow four wheel drive utility vehicle with car-like engineering. It is heavy, strong, has a payload greater than most pickup trucks on the road. To compare it to an explorer, cheep cherokee (the real name is a registored trademark) or other sport utility vehicle, is sort of like comparing a semi to a pickup truck. I think consumers whatever's described the Disco correctly. The questions is what other vehicle will carry 7 people, 200+ lbs on the roof, towing a 5000 lbs trailer, and still out perform any other non-landrover off road. As far as 202 ft on wet pavement, this is a functions of the vehicle weight. load an explorer to the 4500 lbs or so a Disco weighs, and see if it will stop on wet pavement. (anti-lock brakes don't do squat for stopping distances.) There is nothing like a landrover. Russ Burns 91 R-ROver 94 D-90 At 02:00 PM 10/12/95 -0700, Dark Dream Mists wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 72 lines)] > a region where it rains all the time? > Janine > morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu From Duncan Brown Thu Oct 12 17:51:37 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 17:51:37 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Disco ratings by qualified professionals Janine > Now I have read this report in Consumer Reports that stated during > These are some more low lights it mentioned: All I can say is "consider the source". Would you trust Consumer Reports to choose a sport-utility vehicle for you? To paraphrase some other things they said in that article: -- We didn't really test these vehicles' offroad capabilities because nobody that buys them uses them that way. -- Sure the Discovery seemed to do real well offroad, but we didn't include that in our ratings. (See above.) -- Our overall favorite SUV is still the Isuzu Trooper. Need I say more, after that last one?! If you agree that the Trooper is the superior vehicle for your style of usage, by all means don't buy the Disco! A friend of mine who loves to argue, and who owns a new Grand Cherokee, made sure to point this article out to me. He also forwarded me some comments about the dismal showing of the Disco vs. other sport-utes in an article in Popular Science. POPULAR SCIENCE?!?!? If you believe they're the ultimate judges of offroad vehicles, you should definitely DEFINITELY not be buying a Disco... Duncan, owner of a 1960 88, and sometimes passenger in a Disco, who wishes he had enough money to own one of those too... From Leland J Roys Thu Oct 12 15:20:20 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 15:20:20 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: Real Trucks Hi, I agree with Russ Burns about the disc vs Ford Explorer. There is an unbelievable difference between a Ford Explorer and a Defender-90 or Disco. And I don't care what consumer reports or any other magazine says. I can say this after owning other trucks including a 1993 Toyota 4-Runner with every option imaginable. The difference is that the Ford explorers and 4-Runners of the world are yuppie vehicles made to go to the mall parking lot, I wish I would have know this when I bought my 4-Runner, I took it to Baja and completely trashed it after only 1500 miles on the odo. The same roads I went on with the 4-Runner would not have even phased my current Defender-90. My response to the subscriber asking about the comsumer reports (Sorry I forget the name) is that , if you want a truck that just looks nice in the mall parking lot or to go to Tahoe in 2 inches of snow, get a Ford exploreer, if you want to really go off-road or do anything serious, get a disco or Defender-90. And to end, is it my imagination, or does the Ford Explorer just look cheap? That new chrome grill makes me want to vomit! Leland Roys roys@cup.hp.com Cupertino, Ca 1994 Def-90 (Red) From Andre_Maier@mindlink.bc.ca (Andre Maier) Thu Oct 12 15:19:38 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 15:19:38 -0700 From: Andre_Maier@mindlink.bc.ca (Andre Maier) Subject: West Coast Challenge ok ok,so i for got to tell you what country. Canada,British Columbia.oct.14 and 15. also in the new issue of LRO the article on the rocky mountain rovers,the writer of the article should do some more research before the statments about the availability of Landy's and parts are mentioned concerning the rest of Canada.The writer is totally wrong. From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Oct 12 15:35:28 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 15:35:28 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 In message <199510122103.QAA14682@butler.uk.stratus.com> Dark Dream Mists writes: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net > I am close to buying a new Disco after much research. snip > Now I have read this report in Consumer Reports that stated during > testing it had this problem, "The Discovery offers a relatively [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > a V8 that manages to combine anemic acdeleration with miserable fuel > economy." SNIp SNIP sNIP > Well, I can say that it did not get very good reviews. This is a list > of the other vehicles they tested and it is in order of their best [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > 1. Ford Explorer Limited (recommended model) > *PLEASE* I want feedback. So go out & buy a Ford. It sounds like it has more of whats important to you. TeriAnn Land Rover 109 2.4L... 0 to 60 same day (assuming level road or down hill grade and no major headwinds) From Jeff Gauvin Thu Oct 12 16:36:44 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 16:36:44 MDT From: Jeff Gauvin Subject: Rhino's & D90s... From TONY YATES Fri Oct 13 06:54:28 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 06:54:28 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 In Australia we have several 4wd magazines and just about every month they have comparison tests between Disco/RR and "Toyonissan wankmobiles" (Ben Elton). The off road part of the test is usually restricted to one paragraph that goes something like - "the Disco/RR outperformed everything off road". They spend pages discussing top speed, acceleration, stereo systems, trim levels etc, generally bagging the Disco/RR then in conclusion the reviewer usually states that the Disco/RR would be his vehicle of choice. ========================================================== () ( ) () Tony Yates ( ) ( ) ( ) Bureau of Meteorology ( )( ) ( ) Port Hedland ( ) )( ) Western Australia ( ) ) -------- ------------ ph: (091) 401 350 \\\**\\**\ fax: (091) 401 100 \***\*\ \\*\ email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au \\ ========================================================== From kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Thu Oct 12 16:43:33 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:43:33 -0700 From: kirkwood@strider.fm.intel.com (Clayton Kirkwood) Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 On Oct 12, 2:00pm, Dark Dream Mists wrote: > Subject: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > about slugishness in acceleration but I was willing to deal with > that. Quite true, quite true. But then when did you ever want to accelerate more than sluggishly when trail and rock riding??? :>) > Now I have read this report in Consumer Reports that stated during > testing it had this problem, "The Discovery offers a relatively [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > a V8 that manages to combine anemic acdeleration with miserable fuel > economy." Difficult access? Well, yeah, you do have to climb up a step or two to get in, but I find that better than dropping down into our Saturn where I am always concerned about bumping the side of my head. Awkward??, Oh yeah, you have to sit up in this vehicle. That is somewhat awkward I suppose.>) For stopping distance, try tailgating at 200 feet which usually a good thing. And of course it's anemic: what do you expect? It is aluminum. Miserable fuel economy? This is not an economy car; it is expensive and has the thirst to prove it. :>) > These are some more low lights it mentioned: > "The four-speed auto transmission dosen't downshift readily, and the > shift lever is stiff." > in our off-road tests. But it's cursed with difficult access, an In comparison, I find most auto shifters to be stiffer than manuals; they aren't typically moved all that much. Ours is fine. In fact, the shifting is very smooth I think most of the time. > "The steering feels a bit vague and slow in tight bends." > "The four-speed auto transmission dosen't downshift readily, and the We have found that we have to pay attention to steering: it tends to waver down the road at highway speeds. Tight bends are no problem for us. > "The Disco stopped reasonably well from 60 mph on a dry track, but > it need 202 feet to stop on a wet track-among the worst performances > we've measured in years, and truly surprising in a vehicle with anti- > lock breaks." I haven't had anything we to try this on and I don't usually intentionally slam the breaks on. May they didn't crunch the brakes but pushed them like non-anti-lock brakes. It makes a difference. > "Uneven pavement makes it rock incessantly." > it need 202 feet to stop on a wet track-among the worst performances I would assume that a semi would be even worse and that a lowslung sports car is much better. The Disco has a high profile and carries its weight above the heigth of most other cars. I also has a offroad suspension unlike all of the other trucks mentioned below. They are designed as mallmobiles while the Disco is meant to be used off road. Big difference. > "The driveline whines audibly except on the highway, where tire hum > and wind noise drown it out." > "The pedals are too close to the seat and too far left." > lock breaks." The fix for too close pedals is the adjustable seat. All you have to do is reach between your legs (under the seat a little) and lift up and push back. Alternatively, don't let your wife drive it (unless of course her legs are the same length). As far as too far to the left, yeah I suppose, but here in America, we do let our drivers sit on the left and when sitting on the right it might be a reach to get to the pedals when they are on the left. > "The front seats feel lumpy and a bit too firm." > and wind noise drown it out." Ever hear of the play, "The Princess and the Pea". It sounds like the evaluator was a little too upper crust for a Disco. I like my seats firm. I think this because when one is bouncing around crawling rock one has more bounce. At that point the seat isn't so firm: it is better able to absorb the bum blows. Besides, after 10 years it will just start to be broken in for the next 30 years. Let's not forget that these cars are brand new when tested. The planned usage for a Disco vs the others is dramatically different (I hope you do plan on taking it offroad???) > "The seat lacks side support." > and wind noise drown it out." That's what the doors are for. > "The power-window switches, on the center console, are illogically > arranged and awkward to reach." > "The pedals are too close to the seat and too far left." You know, I thought this at first too. I have a Topaz and the buttons are reversed. Now when I get in the Topaz, I think they are reversed. It's just what you get used to. Some cars I get in with manual windows, roll clockwise, while others roll counter. Who knows? > "The rear 3-point safety belts are hard to buckle, and the shoulder > portion rides on the neck of some occupants." > "The pedals are too close to the seat and too far left." It depends on how tall or short you are. Most cars will rub wrong depending on the individual's height. > Well, I can say that it did not get very good reviews. This is a list > of the other vehicles they tested and it is in order of their best [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > 6. Land Rover Discovery > 7. Mitsubishi Montero > 8. Honda Passport (Isuzu Rodeo) Now look closely at this list. Most of the articles you read relate how most are the "new" stationwagons and mallmobiles. Price wise, most also are at or above the cost of the Disco. The Disco is truly meant to be used offroad and enjoyed at places other than around town and to and from the snow. Realize also that most buyers are not buying for the offroad capability but the size, capacity and style. That is what CR is catering to. If you take a bunch of Disco owners and ask them to rate these same cars (keeping in mind what they want the car for) you will get a different list order with the Disco at the top. > *PLEASE* I want feedback. I am especially concerned with the stopping > on wet pavement 202 feet! I just returned from England and Scotland [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > how can a vehicle that may have a bad breaking record be so popular in > a region where it rains all the time? Either the Brits are smart and know what's good or it explains why they don't leave the island often. Who ever heard of flying a Disco around: they are cars!!!!! (Airport vehicles =? planes) > Janine > morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu >-- End of excerpt from Dark Dream Mists > in Edinburgh, they were everywhere... even used as airport vehicles. Now Buy one and don't tailgate. They are very nice vehicles. After six months we still get a kick out of just getting in the thing. -- Clayton R. Kirkwood, FM1-58, 916 356-5838 From Bennett Leeds Thu Oct 12 16:43:28 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 16:43:28 PDT From: Bennett Leeds Subject: Consumer Reports on the Discovery Here's a few quotes: SUVs serve as family transportation for most buyers. Accordingly, CR rated them much the way sedan are rated. We didn't include off-road capability as a Ratings factor. It {LR Discovery} did the best in off-road tests... As a group, minivans make more sense than SUVs for most people. Basically, CR thinks the Disco is a so-so minivan. They're probably right. You want a minivan? But CR is right about the pedals being too far left and about front seat comfort. The power seats in '96 seem much improved, but I've only been on test drives so far. - Bennett Leeds '96 Disco (silver/grey) on order From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Oct 12 18:28:01 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 18:28:01 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: MORE LR STAMPS, NEW ONES A couple of months ago I posted a message about some new stamps coming out from Tristan Da Cunha. Theyre here at last There are four stamps in the set , a van, pair of motorbikes, pick up, and a Very nice Defender 110 RHD station wagon in white with the union flag (not jack 'cos it aint flown from a jackstay, but thats another thread) ona little pole flown from the front corner of the vehcile. The vehicle is off road with nice green grass and a stream. These sets are of a high denomination for a start so that is refelcted in the price that I must ask for them Each set will cost $11 including postage. I have only five sets available, so bids again please. Closure will be sunday night after the Diefenbaker Bunker tour, you have to a Canuck to get that one. I know a number of people had asked for sets to be put aside, I will give them consideration as long as they remind me. Rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Tiffany Downing Fri Oct 13 09:55:28 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:55:28 +0930 From: Tiffany Downing Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 At 02:00 PM 12/10/95 -0700, you wrote: > I am close to buying a new Disco after much research. Up until > this time everything I read confirmed that it is a good vehicle [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > in Edinburgh, they were everywhere... even used as airport vehicles. Now > how can a vehicle that may have a bad breaking record be so popular in > a region where it rains all the time? Try not to take some of the scarcastic remarks of these people too much to heart. They can be pretty blunt at times and I know (from experience) :-) You really need to determine what you need the vehicle for. 4WDriving, Shopping, Long on-road travel, whatever and then list what is important for you in a vehicle excellent off-road ability (4WDriving), Good stopping ability nice stereo (Shopping), Comfortable seats and good fuel economy (Long on-road travel), etc. I wouldn't just look at the top 10 recommended cars and say well that one gets the best reports. People are biased (I oughta know) and often Magazines are also biased (if the writer drives a certain vehicle or the article is sponsored by a paticular company you could be seeing a one sided view. Are you prepared to buy a vehicle on hearsay of a journalist who's next story is about the rare black spotted baboon in the jungles of Africa! You need to think of what YOU require from a vehicle, what's really important to you and then test drive the ones that have the most of what you're looking for. Don't be shy test drive them all, speak to people that own these vehicles, what are the cost of parts, are they readily available, who will work on your vehicle, can you work on your own vehicle. DOES IT DO WHAT YOU WANT IT TO!!!! That's just my $0.04 worth (well it's too long for $0.02) :-) All the best in finding a vehicle. Regards Tiffany Downing ******************************************** Co-ordinator, International Student Programs TAFE South Australia, AUSTRALIA Phone: (61 8) 226 3202 Fax: (61 8) 226 3655 E-Mail: tiffanyd@tafe.sa.edu.au ******************************************** From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Oct 12 17:36:00 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 17:36:00 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 In message <199510122258.PAA14859@alumni.caltech.edu> Dark Dream Mists writes: > > So go out & buy a Ford. It sounds like it has more of whats important to > > you. > > TeriAnn > Dear TeriAnn- ; > I am shocked at your rude e-mail to me. I posted the quotes from ; Consumer Reports because I wanted to hear feedback from other LR owners > on things which were reported. The listing of vehicles was in order > to elucidate the list as to which vehicles the Disco was being ; compared to. It in no way reflected my choices. If you had read the > post more intelligently, perhaps, you would have understood that. ; > Most important is that I thought the Land Rover digest was a forum in > which people could discuss LR topics. Unlike the mail you sent me, I ; have recieved numerous intelligent and fact filled messages regarding > my post. ; > -Janine Whats so rude about my reply. You stated your reservations about certain characteristics of the discovery. The artical you quoted said that the Ford was best at things that seemed very important to you and the Disco scored low. I simply suggested that you purchase the car the scored best on the things you seemed most concerned about. I don't think you should be talked into a car that you would be unhappy with. It should perform as well as possible in the parameters that are most important to you. Discoverys are not the best car for everybody, inspite of what the dealer may say. Saying the Disco takes more space to stop than a Ford because its heavier, just explains why. It doesn't change the fact that it takes longer to stop on wet pavement, nor does it address your concern that it takes a long distance to stop. No replys I have read yet addressed your concerns over poor performance and gas milage. If all these things are very important to you, then maybe you ARE looking at the wrong car for you. Other replies addressed its off road, load and towing capabilities. You did not mention them as being important parameters in your posting so I ignored them. Given the parameters you listed as being important, the Ford makes the best sense for you period. I assumed you weren't posting just to start a marque bashing session. I assumed that you were interested in certain characteristics. No reply that I have seen has argued with those characteristics. They have said that other characteristics are more important to them and have described them. You just didn't mention those same characteristics as having been important to you. maybe if you posted a list of characteristice that are most important to you in a car, we could discuss how well the Discovery meets those characteristics. Since you are evidently interested in a 4X4, you might want to cross post it to a general 4X4 mailgroup/newsgroup and get the opinions of people who own other marques. Its a lot of money to pay. You should get the car you'll be happiest with. TeriAnn "Have you driven a Ford lately" From "Gerald" Thu Oct 12 21:03:06 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:03:06 -0400 From: "Gerald" Subject: Re: Emulations > > Somebody mind filling in the rest of the Real World (and the US) on > > whatthehell a Reliant Robin is ? -Alan > A little three wheeled car available in the UK. Most commonly Was there an Isetta 300 in the early 1960's that was 3 wheel? It had a front door and I guess a 300 cc engine. Two wheels in front and one in back. I think the 500 model had 4 wheels. -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Oct 12 18:44:34 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 18:44:34 -0700 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 Consumer Reports does not like the Discovery and perhaps for a valid reason as they stated up front in the article. "...did not test the vehicles off road because that's not how they'll be used...." Talking to a couple of dealers, however, it seems that the Discovery is usually the bought as the "wife's" car. (this surprised me until I let my wife drive mine... I may not ever get it back now, but that's a separate issue :-) "Four Wheeler" magazine DID test it off road and it was voted the 1995 Four Wheeler of the Year. In any case, IMHO, If you are not going to take it off road, then heed the CR article and buy something else. If you plan on taking it off road, and plan to take 7 people in it (and do not want to buy a GMC Suburban), then the Discovery is an ideal choice. You don't buy these for the fuel economy, but the utility. I won't waste space echoing Clayton Kirkwood's response to the items below, because I think he covered everything. I will comment on the list, though.. 1. Ford Explorer Limited (recommended model) Great for the mall, but not much ground clearance for off road. (especially with those running boards.) A Car shaped like a truck. 2. Toyota Land Cruiser (recommended model) Sure if you want to spend US $45K + on a vehicle 3. Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 Another Mall-wagon. I wonder how many of these you'll see on (or off) the road after 100K miles. 4. Chevrolet Blazer LT Another On-Road vehicle made to look like it could go off road. (just look at the stock tires on most of them.) I've owned several GM products and I'm not impressed with the fit and finish of the components. 5. Isuzu Trooper (recommended model) This is a reasonable value. 6. Land Rover Discovery Enough said (as if that's possible :-) 7. Mitsubishi Montero 8. Honda Passport (Isuzu Rodeo) *PLEASE* I want feedback. I am especially concerned with the stopping on wet pavement 202 feet! I just returned from England and Scotland and saw tons of Disco's everywhere. Most notable were the sightings in Edinburgh, they were everywhere... even used as airport vehicles. I'll be honest, the Disco doesn't start fast, nor does it stop fast, but it'll go anywhere. I think this a pretty common Land Rover characteristic. Don't tailgate in it (or any other vehicle for that matter). I learned this the hard way. (another story). I bought mine to go off-road, carry up to 7 people, and was impressed by the sturdiness of the construction. So for me it was a good fit and I'm quite pleased with it. Good luck with your purchase. -- Bob Watson '95 Discovery From "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 12 95 Oct EDT 1922 Date: 12 Oct 95 22:03:59 EDT From: "William L. Leacock" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Steering idler Hugh, yes it is possible to over haul the steering idler without removing the complete assembly from the chassis. remove the idlers, remove the bottom plate and thrust washer, push slowly down on the shaft, as the bearing starts to protrude from the bottom fit a hose clip over it,then push down further until the top bearing starts to prtotrude from the bottom, put a hose clip on that to hold it in place, remove the entire assembly to a workbench, dismantle, clean and fit the new bearings, fit new oil seals to the end caps assembly is the reverse process. Keep out of a direct line of the assembly just in case you slip up. It can easily be achieved with care, I have done it dozens of times. Side play is usually caused by the bearings siezing up in the box through lack of lubricant, refurbishing can easily be accomplished by fitting new bearings and seals Proper lubrication afterwards is the key to longevity, it can take a week to fill up the idler with oil. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Thu Oct 12 21:49:32 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 21:49:32 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: Walt Swain where are you? Would Walt Swain or anyone knowing his e mail address please contact me pls asap. Tx In Adv Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Fri Oct 13 00:16:24 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 00:16:24 -0400 From: jeff@purpleshark.com (Jeffrey A. Berg) Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 > Now I have read this report in Consumer Reports [SNIP] I gave up on Consumer Reports about the time that they rated a Ford Escort as a better car than my Rabbit GTi. Also, as an Audio Engineer, I can attest that their definition of what makes a stereo component "better" differs seriously from mine. Consumers is great for things about which you have no passion: Dishwashers, Air Conditioners, etc. But if the object involved has any "soul" to you whatsoever, the "objective" criteria by which CR judges them just won't cut it. So if what you drive is more of a "romantic" decision, let your heart be the guide. If you don't really care, and you're not going to be doing serious off roading, take CR's (and Teri Ann's) advice and buy the Ford, though I confess that I do rather like my Mother's Grand Wagoneer. What the hell do I know, I drive a Series IIa for everyday transportation! Keep on Roverin' JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Purple Shark Media Rowayton, CT jeff@purpleshark.com ================== Love is fine until you taste This melancholy bouillabaisse called letting go Jimmy Buffett == == From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Thu Oct 12 21:45:11 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:45:11 -0700 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: Discovery specs With regards to the recent postings of the Consumer Reports & Popular Science reviews of SUV's, I was perusing the Nov. Four Wheeler mag (that comes with the nifty Rhino-chasing-Defender calendar) and in the middle they have a summary table of all 4wd vehicle specs. I thought it was very interesting to note the following items (sorted in order of payload). Vehicle Gross Wt. Payload ----------------- --------- ------- Hummer 10,300 4,100 (just for kicks) L.R. Def 90 6,003 2,443 (WOW!) Chev. Tahoe 6,800 1,666 L.R. Discovery 6,019 1,640 (*) Chev. Blazer 5,300 1,229 Isuzu Tooper 5,500 1,290 Jeep G. Cherokee 5,300 1,150 Ford Explorer 4,700 1,050 Isuzu Rodeo 4,900 955 Jeep Wrangler 3,880 800 The fact that the Disco has a gross wt. of 2,100 pounds more than the Explorer and 1,500 pounds surprised me, but I didn't realize the difference in payload: an extra 500 pounds over the G.C.! The Def. 90's no slouch, either. I guess you really can say that the G.C., Explorer and Rodeo are "lightweights!" _____ /___|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ 6405 235th Place SW |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043 | _| | | _ }\ {|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ Bob Watson Tonight's feature is bought to you in living color. begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT M>)\^(@P$`0:0" `$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y 0```````#H``$(@ <` M& ```$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`06 `P`.````RP<*``P` M%0`M``L`! `Y`0$@@ ,`#@```,L'"@`,`!4`+0`*``0`. $!"8 !`"$````S M1D0X-48Y13 V,#5#1C$Q0C@W1# P.# U1C$T13-%.0`W!P$$@ $`$ ```$1I M2!S<&5C"`_ D`23B*P,``8!Y!_!H"X!O+?,1<2J2+40-P GP!($LT"<'0"]! M"L I( !P9"##"X DTVUI9&0L`"32RRX0$8!V)0!A(";!`,!^ D``A@9VC_!4 C\"H#,= R<0N M$] @D'\ELR2B+F 3T"33`A S0&^?`_ JL2/P$^ $("AS(#&_"8 P<@6P+V(F M(0JP>2 @L&%D*2X*A0J%5C/%FPR".Z1'`V $$5=T*U#M.[-0.=0*A2T^+CNS M/J][/B(*A4@R,020.[@B8"S<,S -\#O",V L(F CP+PH:BJ !4 "$ 7 :S/@ M&&MS*0J/(TA,+E(S*U O$2 Y0I1"I#8L!T* %%!"LS(L-#0S82QP5T]7(41? M(SE#4R3P*T%4833094;+./%"AC$L-DS 2.]%?@0`MP6@-;)'%S$=\$Q6-$-! M5BI(UDJ40@M@>D&%(,8U0FA,H#(R.4S_(TC222; >G5*X&\GT%(X7C52Z4:@ M4[\C2$H)X'#O/$ K4$J1`V!K">!27TR@'C%6H%>%*W +("!%>*\+4 6P4C9# M`#=,*#!;=^]58SNS" `-L&]&R4,`1J!C0I4I\#DU-5>%63-7[G(B,2P!0J0S M3 !,$&"6^TP1.EQ4-U(`T 5 +),DXK].\S&A!" R``G /')W/,'O)B%(($,B M)9!U+U $( 1@_R"094(PE%Q6,#-,H%:A9\9])L!R$U $`#C1!X IP&*6=05 M*>!D,0!N)P5 ^R"0!T!I4B DTVP`#= V,10A@;&/N;"X0+Z #H',YT&5(<'+?*=)Y*"]YT7Q?7*9<>=%Y@T)O.^!7++ C.) #H#QA+0-@8G=^ M0##P!0`EH"8@/, LX3Y]>2=\?CA[('F#?TM0L35I2! S-20!4 M@*)%3_E=] MV#XA>P!ZXGG0>R-[9/I-9^%T"V!:`$K@!)!B$/,E0"G 5T%&D$P02%!]VF=Z M\'XW>V%1= K\#3POS(` M4?%$($[H>2E[(2]_1G^,HCI<5X\C2(Y_"X(=\7/\,3=[NI!%?']]BE7 `P#_ M-0%Q@2\P++ (<&W!!" &X/\T\R2Q=#(P@6R@*. JL2 #"SI&'[$`F, `'@!P M``$````0````1&ES8V]V97)Y('-P96-S``(!<0`!````%@````&ZF28UM(C- M1R\%"Q'/FL4`J@!K3S ``$ `.0"@:B^N)IFZ`0,`\3\)! ```P`F```````+ M`",```````L`*0```````P`V```````"`4<``0```"\```!C/553.V$](#MP M/6US9G0[;#U2140M-S0M35-'+3DU,3 Q,S T-#4Q,5HM-C,V``! ```#T``0````$``````````P`--/T_```"`10T :`0```! ```!4E*' *7\0&Z6'" `K*B474PL` ` end From jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Fri Oct 13 19:11:22 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 19:11:22 +1200 From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Subject: re steering idler Thanks to all who replied to my steering idler prob (see, got the right terminology),From Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> 13 95 Oct EDT 1903 Date: 13 Oct 95 03:55:12 EDT From: Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Bat Fastards No I agree with you Dixon. All I was saying is that for Bearmach, LR supermarket are asking a premium (by English standards) price and often make you believe you are getting genuine purely by their own ignorance of their stock. I have bought parts from them at "genuine" prices, only to find it is secondary market parts, and sometimes not even as good a quality as Bearmach. And this is from someone who (use) to do high volume with them because of proximity . Bearmach is probably the best aftermarket around actually, but it still does not quite fit right some of the time. Classic example is door tops. But a little this and a little that and presto... it fits. Nothing that we aren't use to anyhow! We use a lot of aftermarket for those who are trying to keep the costs down a bit. I often feel Bearmach is the best choice for value, as much of the genuine stuff is so highly priced and doesn't always fit well either! Ahhh the joy of Land Rovers.... So you had fun at the rally? Bay State Rally ws a blast, even if there was an huge abundance of new vehicles and only 6 or so oldies. Cheers Leslie '56 Series I 86" Trialer "Big Bird" '58 Series II 88" "Scouser" '69 Series IIa 109 5 door "Cheez burger" in paradise For Sale '62 Series IIa 109 regular "Everton" '65 Series IIa Military 88" "Cedrych" From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Oct 13 04:00:26 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 04:00:26 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Disco Review Janine.. At first, I wasn't going to bother to reply to your letter. I don't own a Discovery, so I really couldn't give you any feedback as to the vehicle. But as I thought about the Consumer Reports drivel you quoted I began to wonder exactly how a bunch of yahoos in white coats can influence the public the way they do and Oh-My-Gosh how did we ever get along without them. No, I don't drive a Discovery. My daily driver (faithful companion, play toy, work horse and occasional sleeping accomodations) is a 1965 Ser IIa Land Rover. Most of my close friends own Land Rovers that are 25 years old or older. That's the interesting thing about Land Rovers... they last a very long time. So first, just why did you consider the Discovery? It sounds as if you really want a car, not a truck. Face it, the Disco is basically a fancy truck. All Land-Rovers are trucks.. even the Range Rover. The Range Rover started out as a vehicle that could be hosed out after a hard day of work on the farm. As to your letter.... > Now I have read this report in Consumer Reports that stated during > testing it had this problem, "The Discovery offers a relatively [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > a V8 that manages to combine anemic acdeleration with miserable fuel > economy." Do you need four wheel drive? Will you be doing any off-roading? The awkward driving position is only awkward if you're expecting to be in a car. Anemic acceleration? Remember, you're hauling a LOT of weight around. > "The four-speed auto transmission dosen't downshift readily, and the > shift lever is stiff." I dunno... Do they come with a standard tranny. Much better deal for driving IMHO. > "The steering feels a bit vague and slow in tight bends." Sounds like a Rover to me... :) > "The Disco stopped reasonably well from 60 mph on a dry track, but > it need 202 feet to stop on a wet track-among the worst performances > we've measured in years, and truly surprising in a vehicle with anti- > lock breaks." Haven't a clue. The nice thing to remember is that when you're zooming down the freeway in the rain and some yahoo in a Honda slams on his brakes in front of you, that Disco will just run right over the top of the Honda. > "Uneven pavement makes it rock incessantly." So... > "The driveline whines audibly except on the highway, where tire hum > and wind noise drown it out." Sounds like a Rover! Turn the radio up louder. :) > "The pedals are too close to the seat and too far left." > "The front seats feel lumpy and a bit too firm." > "The seat lacks side support." Purely subjective. > "The power-window switches, on the center console, are illogically > arranged and awkward to reach." And typically British. > "The rear 3-point safety belts are hard to buckle, and the shoulder > portion rides on the neck of some occupants." At least half of the cars I've driven have had those problems. American and foreign. It's a case of one size fits most. > Well, I can say that it did not get very good reviews. This is a list > of the other vehicles they tested and it is in order of their best [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > 6. Land Rover Discovery > 7. Mitsubishi Montero > 8. Honda Passport (Isuzu Rodeo) How many of those will still be running in 20 years? Or even 5 years for that matter. > *PLEASE* I want feedback. I am especially concerned with the stopping > on wet pavement 202 feet! I just returned from England and Scotland > and saw tons of Disco's everywhere. Most notable were the sightings > in Edinburgh, they were everywhere... even used as airport vehicles. Duh... they build them over there. They are as common there as Fords and Chevy's are here. OK.. maybe I'm being a bit sarcastic. But I'm biased. I've owned Rovers for about eight years - and other British cars since 1973. If I had enough spare change to buy a Disco, I certainly would. I've talked to Discovery owners and they all love them. Sure, everyone has something to complain about, but they wouldn't trade them for anything else. So, again I ask... Why did you consider the Discovery? Look, you really don't want any of that other garbage. Get the Disco and have a good long love affair with it! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 725-1859 Gloversville NY, 12078 -USA- 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol ("Sidney") 7 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol ("Fern") #:-}> 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol (Parts is Parts) From J.M.Steel@iti.salford.ac.uk 13 95 Oct 1911 Date: 13 Oct 95 11:39 From: J.M.Steel@iti.salford.ac.uk Subject: Introduction and help Hi, I've been watching this list for a while now and thought it's about time I introducted myself (and I've got a bit of a problem which someone might be able to help with). My dad and I have recently bought a 1970 IIA (Diesel) which is in pretty good condition after 3 months of work on it apart from the engine. Starting up is fine and accelerating hard is fine, but just cruising alon at any speen and not putting the engine under any pressure seems to make it miss quite badly. It's like driving down a VERY bumpy road all the time. I asked a local mechanic and he thought it might be the timing, but another said if it started OK it wasn't that. I tried using some of that Injector cleaner stuff you put in the fuel, but that hasn't done much (is it any good?). Does anyone have any ideas. It's probably something quite simple, but me being new to this, I haven't got a clue! Cheers James Steel From Mike Rooth Fri Oct 13 12:03:08 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 12:03:08 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Disco Review Janine..... Just add a little to what Mike sayeth. *Any* 4X4 is going to handle differently to a normal car.On road,that is.The advantage you get is a higher driving position, which,it has been said over here,is worth about ten BHP in urban traffic because you can see a gap much further away than the car driver,so you dont have to "go for it" at short notice. As to the Disco,yes they are indeed popular over here,and if the braking prorties were *that* bad,considering our roads(which you've seen)they wouldnt be! Something else to consider.Land Rover are the only manufacturer in the world that make 4X4 vehicles *and nothing else*.Whilst that doesnt mean there is no room for improvement,it does mean you are driving the result of nearly fifty years experience in the field. Sometimes literally!Almost anything other makers introduce on their 4X4 vehicles,iether Land Rover already has,or,if not,they have tried it years ago and decided it wasnt an improvement,and dropped it. It is widely held that the 100" chassis is the finest off-road chassis it is possible to get,and furthermore that chassis has been around for 25 years in one form or another.And that's the chassis the Disco sits on. I hasten to add,that like Mike,I dont have a Disco.I have a 25 year old S11A 88" 2.25 diesel,and nothing else.Suffice it to say that I've kept this car longer already than any other I've ever owned.Its bodged,patched, repatched,battered,and a right scruffy mess,but I wont part with it until the guvmint makes me(there are a lot of funny romours about over here at the moment). So,biased though I am,I reckon if you want a 4X4,dont try and justify it, it never works,get one.But I think you'll find you are happier with a Land Rover product than you will be with anything built in the land of the rising sun.Who,themselves,incidentally,sell the Disco domestically under the Honda badge!and if that isnt a recommendation,I dont know what is! Cheers Mike Rooth From Danny Phillips Fri Oct 13 13:15:52 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 13:15:52 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Disco To the chap thinking of buying a disco, we have more than our fair share of rain here in the uk, and my disco even without anti lock brakes, doesn't need anywhere near 202 feet to stop in the wet, in fact because she has discs all round i have out braked other sports models on the road, i have on several occasions had golf and bmws stuck up my backside because i could stop fatser than them, and they let me know it, with lights and horn, christ i was in front. yes the switches are in an awkward position, but a lot of manufacturers in europe are locating windows switches in the centre after a little girl died a few years back in fiat twhen she trod on the switch on the door armrest and trapped her head. seats, sounds like he must have recaros in everything else. as for the rest of the driving position, i would say that whilst we don't do your sort of milage all the time I have done over 800 miles in one and regularly do a 300 round trip and even my vw golf gti's made my back ache the disco doesn't. i have the deisal so can't comment on acceleration (don't have any ) but it sounds like the guy had a downer on the car, i can't believe he put the izuzu trooper so low either, its better than any mitz or toy otter offering, in fact its the best of the jap jobs. From (Tom Rowe) Fri Oct 13 07:36:39 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 07:36:39 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: Discovery specs (& Rover sighting) On Thu, 12 Oct 1995 21:45:11 -0700 Bob Watson wrote: Snip >I guess you really can say that the G.C., Explorer and Rodeo are >"lightweights!" Bob, As the owner of a *real* Lightweight, I resent the above statement. ;-) on sightings, Champion spark plugs as an ad in the Latest "Peterson's 4 Wheel & Off Road" using what appears to be a Series I in the backgroud. I meant to mention this long ago, but Cheyene Software ran a contest this summer for computer resellers that had as grand prize a Defender 90. I don't know who won. And I'm ashamed to say I forgot to enter it. ):-( Of course, I never win those things when I do enter. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Al Richer Fri Oct 13 08:43:13 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:43:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Al Richer Subject: The reports of my demise are exaggerated... My mail at Lotus is out again.....sigh. If anybody's looking for me, try richer@village.com. Also, the obligatory Rover question: Can you deal with a bad steering-box bottom gasket without removing the box from the car and completely disassembling it? If I have to pull it I'm going to put in a Series III box I have... alan"Lost in cyberspace again..." From kleihors@natlab.research.philips.com Fri Oct 13 14:48:31 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:48:31 MET From: kleihors@natlab.research.philips.com Subject: moral Hi guys, some guy at work that keeps buggering me to cross a large pond at the premises over here send me this. I don't know where he got it, but maybe you'll like it: An elephant was wandering through the jungle one day when he heard squealing noises coming from a well-known quicksand pit. So he rushed over to the pit and in the pit he saw a mouse who was caught in the quicksand and who was shouting: "Help! Help! Save me!" The elephant responded: "Hang on Mr Mouse, I'll save you!" and he threw his enormous penis out to the mouse and said, "Grab on, Mr Mouse, I'll drag you out" and so he dragged the mouse out of the quicksand and saved his life, for which the mouse was very grateful and said, "If ever you are in trouble, I'll help you!" the elephant nodded disbelievingly and wandered off again. Many months later, the mouse was strolling through the jungle when he heard a very loud, deep, shouting coming from a quicksand pit. So he ran over to the pit and in it he saw the elephant drowning in the quicksand shouting: "Help! Help! Save me!" the mouse yelled out to the elephant: "Hang on Mr Elephant! I'll save you!" and he scuttled off into the bushes. A few seconds later, with an sick roar, an ugly gray old Landrover came screaming to a halt in the clearing and the mouse jumped out from behind the driver's seat, tied a rope to the Landrover and trowed the other end of the rope to the elephant and dragged him out of the quicksand. The moral of the story is that if you have a Landrover, you don't need a big penis. Richard P. Kleihorst, Eindhoven, the Netherlands. '63 LWB SW, '60 SWB. From Mike Rooth Fri Oct 13 14:56:18 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 14:56:18 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: PLease pass on... (fwd) Forwarded message: >From A.J.Grafton@lut.ac.uk Fri Oct 13 12:03 BST 1995 From "David McKain" Fri Oct 13 08:10:44 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:10:44 EDT From: "David McKain" Subject: 88 Springs Just thought I'd bounce this off the list. I visited a local spring shop due to the increasingly apparent "sag" in the back of my LR. I removed the springs (PO replaced proper bushings with solid metal but thats another story) and took them in to see if 1) they could be re-arched and tempered 2) if not, add a few leafs and live with it 3) manufacture a new set from scrap or 4) purchase new springs Due to the sorry state of the metal the first two options were moot, and upon discussing newer, thicker spring material, I found out that LR's had so many leaves because the spring steel was a lot thinner and the spring length was shorter compared to newer vehicles. Option three was tossed because no other vehicle would have anything close to a LR (american). That left open option 4, which I was avoiding because RN advertised new rear spring sets for $155 a piece not including extraneous hardware and U-bolts. Luckily, he had a listing and said I could get them complete with bushing, U-bolts, shipping and everything for $350. In addition to saving a few bucks in shipping (40 lbs a piece) I'm helping to support the local economy instead of that of Essex Jct., Vermont. I'm getting pretty exited about the "new car ride" after I put on the new springs. David McKain 1966 SIIa Petrol mckain@cemr.wvu.edu (304) 599-0120 Morgantown, WV USA From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 13 10:03:20 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:03:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: West Coast Challenge On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Andre Maier wrote: > also in the new issue of LRO the article on the rocky mountain rovers,the > writer of the article should do some more research before the statments > about the availability of Landy's and parts are mentioned concerning the > rest of Canada.The writer is totally wrong. LRO: "The scaricity of Land Rovers in Canada means parts availability is not as good as for other off-roaders" Slightly true. There are not thousands of dealerships like Ford et al at every street corner to saunter into and get parts. Canadian Tire doesn't have fiche for the Land Rover. However, RN, ABP, BP, the UK basied suppliers are a phone call/fax away and there is FedEx and the Post Office. Alternatively, for many parts, if you know what you are talking about, parts are available at Canadian Tire because of the interchangable nature of so many with other Brtish cars. I also note that despite parts availability problems, they are bringing in large shipments of parts (from England actually in fairly large quantities) LRO: "There would have been seven Land Rovers following a Range Rover up the mountainside - a considerable gathering by Canadian standards" Hmmm... The Toronto "Rovers at Rovers", a one day event with no off-road, but a treausre hunts etc. gathered in 12 Land Rovers last month. The Ottawa Valley "Birthday Party" netted nearly 40 Land Rovers. There were a dozen OVLR members & Rovers at the British Invasion in Stowe Vermont last month. Seven is significant? My, my, these boys better not stop by the OVLR Frame Oiler tomorrow. In fact, I should drive by my horde south of Ottawa. That makes eight Land Rovers in one place, more if Dale & some others stop by. A very significant gathering! :-) Wonder what the author would have thought about Sandy's wee effort in Buckingham County Virginia the other week, or the Downeast! Neat to finally see what Malcolm's Range Rover looked like after the roll... He was not in the best of shape for weeks afterwards... From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Fri Oct 13 10:06:09 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:06:09 EDT From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: You can have our disco when you pry it from our cold wet dead hands! > I am close to buying a new Disco after much research. Up until > this time everything I read confirmed that it is a good vehicle > with bad fuel economy. In addition, I have been a bit concerned > about slugishness in acceleration but I was willing to deal with > that. I have had my disco for 7 + months now and am extremly happy with it. My wife drives it a lot with our two kids as I refused to buy a minvan. Our research said what you already know, " blah blah blah Best off -road blah blah blah, but the explorer is ..." Basically, we love our disco and are quite happy that we bought it. I hate to think that I am agreeing with someone from Cisco, but ... This is a real 4wd vehicle. While the disco has been given some car-like panache, it's soul is in the mud. > Now I have read this report in Consumer Reports that stated during > testing it had this problem, "The Discovery offers a relatively [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > a V8 that manages to combine anemic acdeleration with miserable fuel > economy." We haven't noticed bad stopping, and our's has better acceleration than the explorers my wife parents have. > These are some more low lights it mentioned: > "The four-speed auto transmission dosen't downshift readily, and the > shift lever is stiff." > in our off-road tests. But it's cursed with difficult access, an > that. Didn't notice this. > "The steering feels a bit vague and slow in tight bends." > "The four-speed auto transmission dosen't downshift readily, and the Duh, gee Tennesse, it's not a sports car. Works fine for us. > "The Disco stopped reasonably well from 60 mph on a dry track, but > it need 202 feet to stop on a wet track-among the worst performances > we've measured in years, and truly surprising in a vehicle with anti- > lock breaks." > that. Did they press the right pedal? As I mentioned above, we didn't notice this. > "Uneven pavement makes it rock incessantly." > it need 202 feet to stop on a wet track-among the worst performances Well, you don't get high ground clearance & great 4wd ability for free. > "The driveline whines audibly except on the highway, where tire hum > and wind noise drown it out." > we've measured in years, and truly surprising in a vehicle with anti- > lock breaks." Gee. I hope they don't buy it! Then I can laugh at all the stuck Explorer owners. :-) > "The pedals are too close to the seat and too far left." I do find the seat less comfortable than the seat in the Toyota Land Cruiser, but I take long trips all the time & I don't mind it. My wife actually likes it better & she drives it most. > "The front seats feel lumpy and a bit too firm." > "The seat lacks side support." [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > "The power-window switches, on the center console, are illogically > arranged and awkward to reach." Humm, well, they are illogically arranged. > "The rear 3-point safety belts are hard to buckle, and the shoulder > portion rides on the neck of some occupants." > we've measured in years, and truly surprising in a vehicle with anti- > lock breaks." No problems for us. > Well, I can say that it did not get very good reviews. This is a list > of the other vehicles they tested and it is in order of their best > to worst overall scores. > 1. Ford Explorer Limited (recommended model) > that. I hated this car & have driven it extensively. (my wifes parenst have several Explorers) > 2. Toyota Land Cruiser (recommended model) It was huge, but nice. In the end it simply didn't seem like it had good 4wd comparatively. > 3. Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited V8 Everyone here @ work has them, the rover can blow them away, so many people at work are now buying the rovers. (Well, except for one of our founders who has a hummer) :-) > 4. Chevrolet Blazer LT No opinion > 5. Isuzu Trooper (recommended model) Not V8 as I recall > 6. Land Rover Discovery :-) > 7. Mitsubishi Montero > 8. Honda Passport (Isuzu Rodeo) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Janine > morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu You can have our disco when you pry it from our cold wet dead hands! We love it. I have been unable to get it stuck. It 4wheels awesomely, the kids love it. We have the jump seats and find them great for transporting a crowd. (The kids love the jump seats, adults find them a bit cramped) The seperate heating & stuff is cool. If handeling is really what you want, buy a minivan. You'll be happier. If you want a very good 4wd to haul the family around, well, this is a very good choice, cheaper & more creature comforts than a hummer, cheaper & more 4 wheely than a land cruiser, much better than an explorer etc. ttfn Tom Des Jardins FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 772-6500 url http://www.fore.com Please note new phone number. I am now at the McKnight road facility. From Daniel Grambihler Fri Oct 13 07:15:37 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:15:37 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Grambihler Subject: Re: '96 Hardtop D90 In regards to my previous posting about the HT being riveted to the body: Oops! Sorry. I went to the dealer yesterday (to pick up my D90 GRIN! GRIN! GRIN!) and while I was waiting for the finance people (I was amazed by how long it took to give them some money) I checked out a '94 SW & asked about the '95 SW (again). Bottom line: the HT is bolted to the frame just like you would expect. Guess I should verify things before repeating them. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. Dixon: thanks for the correction(s). Maybe I'll just stick to answering posts about C, or something else I actually know about. :-) Didn't get out of the dealer until 6:30 so I haven't put any "desert pinstripes" on it (not sure if it's a her/him yet) - definitely this weekend! Gotta go - need to make many for these payments! - Daniel -- Daniel Grambihler danielg@eskimo.com GAT !d(--) -p+/-- c++++/--- l++ u++/- e+ m/+/++@ s-/ n--- h+ f* g-/+ w+ t+ r y++/--/** '95 D90 (Colossus?) From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 13 10:21:40 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:21:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Discovery specs On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Robert Watson (CNA) wrote: > Vehicle Gross Wt. Payload > ----------------- --------- ------- [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > Ford Explorer 4,700 1,050 > Isuzu Rodeo 4,900 955 > Jeep Wrangler 3,880 800 LR IIA 88 basic 2,953 1,000 (+ driver & 2 passengers) LR IIA 88 StnWgn 3,281 100 (+ 7 persons) LR IIA 109 basic 3,301 2,000 (+ driver & 2 passengers) LR IIA 109 StnWgn 3,752 400 (+ 10 persons!) LR IIB 109 FC 4,200 3,380 (+ 2 persons) From "John C. White III" Fri Oct 13 07:26:01 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "John C. White III" Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 I own a Discovery, and love it. It's been my experience that Consumer Reports has exactly the opposite opinion and experience from me every time I consult them. Anyway, let me tell you my experiences with the Consumer Reports' complaints. "The four-speed auto transmission..." Can't help you there. Mine's got a manual, which of course means that smoothness of the shift is in the skill of the driver. "The steering feels a bit vague and slow in tight bends." I'm not sure what they mean by "vague." It's as good as most sedans, and corners much, much better than I expected it to. I live in northern California, and have driven some of the more twisty, spectacular stretches of Highway 1 (Pacific Coast Highway). My Disco will take the curves at higher speed than that "recommended" by the California Dept. of Transportation, better in fact than a lot of cars I've driven. "The Disco stopped reasonably well from 60 mph on a dry track..." I've driven mine on rain-slick highways, and haven't a clue what CR is talking about. "Uneven pavement makes it rock incessantly." It rides differently from other 4WDs, but I don't find this a problem. The suspension does yeoman's service off road. "The driveline whines audibly except on the highway, where tire hum and wind noise drown it out." Yep, but it's got a decent stereo that does a good job of drowning it out. There's a lot of stuff spinning around down there. It's gonna make noise. "The pedals are too close to the seat and too far left." What?!? I'm 5'11" and don't have this problem. Too far left? Didn't feel that way to me when I first drove it off the lot. Doesn't feel that way to me now. I'd imagine the engineers at CR may not be taking into account the uncomfortable feeling one gets when driving any unfamiliar car. I've taken my Disco on an 11-day, 13-state trip (6,500 miles) this summer, and found it very comfortable. "The front seats feel lumpy and a bit too firm." "The seat lacks side support." Oy! Maybe Consumer's Reports would like some cheese with all that whine. But seriously, see my response about the pedals. "The power-window switches, on the center console, are illogically arranged and awkward to reach." At first, but that's true for any car. You get used to it. "The rear 3-point safety belts are hard to buckle, and the shoulder portion rides on the neck of some occupants." I've never ridden in the back of mine or one of my model year (1995) so I can't say. I did ride in a '92 Discovery on a trip to the Middle East and don't remember being uncomfortable. This sounds like it might be a problem for children and short people. Anyway, my recommendation would be to test drive all of the vehicles in the report that you're interested in, and picture yourself driving each one day in and day out. Then, decide. Cheers! John '95 Discovery (Love it!) San Francisco, California On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Dark Dream Mists wrote: > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 71 lines)] > a region where it rains all the time? > Janine > morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu From Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Fri Oct 13 10:40:01 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:40:01 -0400 From: Grahame.Harden@BRI.NRC.CA Subject: British Bits... The last word on the Robin... The Robin was a rear wheel drive entity, in the form that I used to drive. Quite sweet, except the engine (747cc) could only be got at through a hole no larger than a toilet seat. Pretty similar concept to the Landrover.... rust-free body on a very sturdy chassis. Remember that the Reliant people later came up with the SS1. The Bond Bug was a small concern, using a range of engines from Villiers (m/cycle) to Reliant to Hillman Imp. No-one could (in the 60's) complain that the British vehicle industry was not innovative. The car driving public at that time were knowledgeable, expecting vehicle ownership to be 'hands-on' affair. Now the whole thing has developed into a situation where owning and buying (and running) a car is similar to deciding which washing machine to buy, in which colour. The die-hards continue to drive interactive vehicles, my Hillman Imps are becoming very rare, my SIII diesel a Euro-Law fugative. As we all know, the old SI-III have so much British 'character' it's difficult to consider a moulded 4WD. I know of few other 'new' vehicles that I could rely upon to haul kayaks across Iceland.... If I stay any longer in Quebec, my demanding wife (SIII) will be crated and shipped over, it's almost worth it just to see the faces of the Customs people (!). Grahame From Roger Sinasohn Fri Oct 13 07:50:03 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:50:03 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: LRO The Izusu Rodeo looks like a nice vehicle (though nowhere near the capabilities of a LR), and sells for something like $16K. The Toyota Forerunner is in the 20's ($22K and up). Take a look at the Ford Explorer and all will be clear. Starts at around $16K or so. The Disco starts at $30K. You get what you pay for. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Fri Oct 13 07:50:22 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 07:50:22 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: News from the trans-Africa team > But they are having a RAVE. WAaaahhh! I wanna go to Africa! Okay, that's it. Who wants to get together to organize a 50th anniversary trip for '97? We can get sponsors, film/photo the whole deal, write a book about it, etc. Anyone interested? I think the ideal vehicles would be early SII 109" 2 doors. Why? Well, lotsa reasons, but mostly 'cause that's what I gots. Consider also though, that it means internal living arrangements are possible, more storage space (parts?), ease of repair, plenty of parts, and can carry additional passengers in case a vehicle must be abandoned. (My bed converts to a couch that could carry 3-4 people reasonably comfortably in a pinch.) My biggest obstacle is financial commitments. (My parent's house mortgage.) If I can get past that, I'm there. Anyway, I'm going to ruminate on this a while... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 13 95 Oct EDT 1911 Date: 13 Oct 95 11:03:02 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: LR Supermarket parts All, I found the thread about Bat Fastards and LR Supermarket very interesting. I have know experience with BATs, but I will come to the defence of the LR Supermarket . I have ordered parts from them mover the years and have had now problems what so ever. I have found the quailty of the parts very good. I have asked and received Genuine parts when requested. They may not be Genuine, but in some cases how can you justify the cost of some genuine parts ! Just compare door seals for Series Land Rovers !!!!! I understand that the OVLR use the Supermarket for their bulk purchases, or used too ! That's good enough for me. One other thing, service, I ordered parts from Paddock for my 109 back in Aug, they have still not arrived yet ! With the Supermarket I have never had to call to follow up and the order is normally here in less than a week. You have to understand that in the UK there is a growing market for aftermarket parts, there are a huge number of companies specialising in Land Rover parts to cash in on the boom in the product. If you wish to pay the overpriced genuine parts from Roves North then that is your choice. In some cases genuine is the way to go, in others, the aftermarket will surfice ! Pay as your money, you take as your choice. Mark From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Fri Oct 13 10:55:00 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:55:00 -0400 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: re:Consumer Reports on Discovery Very fine points by all once the emotion has been filtered. Please don't be offended by those comments; LRO's tend to be as frank as their vehicles :-) As with any data provided, evaluate them from your own point of view and relative importance. As you test-drive these vehicles (and note that most of the comments were comfort related) figure out which one brings a big grin to your face. If I were not off-roading I likely would have gone with an on-road comfort vehicle. Most of the so called feature nagatives in CR are general pluses in an off-road environment. One comment that seemed interesting was that the 4spd AT takes a while to gear down. I've never seen another vehicle do this but I would guess it to be an off-roading feature to avoid unwanted gear changes in slippery terrain. Does anyone know this for a fact? One thing not mentioned in CR was the expected longevity of the vehicle; in particular the body and frame. In the snow belt where salt is serious stuff, this item is important. Since the Discovery has a nice heavy frame (14G) and Aluminum body panels I expect it to far outlast the other vehicles. This I find helps to offset the costs (Worked with my wife :-)). I take good care of my autos and they always rust out before the engine weakens. Cheers, -Christian '95 Discovery ---------------- Christian Szpilfogel Bell-Northern Research Ltd., Ottawa, Ontario, Canada chrisz@bnr.ca From Easton Trevor Fri Oct 13 11:25:00 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 11:25:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Het Shields and Vapour Lock or is it? I too suffer with the " vapour lock" problem on Miss Golightly (Single choke Weber) and have come up with this theory and solution. The symptom is most prevalent after stopping for a few minutes with a hot engine. There is a reluctance to start and then after starting and moving off the engine will stall quite readily. Further attempts to restart result in large volumes of black smoke and after a few seconds all settles down and is well. My theory is that the problem is not vapour lock as such but the fuel in the float chamber "boiling" due to the heat which has come from the manifold. When running of course the continuous fuel flow cools the float chamber. The boiling of the fuel causes a reduction in its density (because of the vapour bubbles) and the float sinks allowing more fuel into the chamber and raising the level above the main jet. This in turn causes flooding and stalling. The solution is to cool the float chamber so the fuel doesn't boil. On the way to the Mid Atlantic Rally I had the above flash of inspiration and effected a simply cooling system by rerouting the screen washer to spray onto the float chamber. When stopping apply a short spray to provide some cooling then before restarting do the same and wait a short moment for the water to evapoate and cool the chamber, This appeared to work, Miss G experiencing no more stalling so long as I remembered the stopping and starting procedure. The next mod will be a heat pipe and cooling fins to take away excess heat from the float chamber. Trevor "Mad Inventor" Easton Yes Uncle Roger, you're right about the pleasure. From RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Fri Oct 13 11:35:01 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:35:01 +0000 From: RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Subject: Re: Consumer Reports Disco drivel I recall reading in CR that the Toyota 4runner was a a worse 4 x 4 than the Explorer because the former was too high off the ground and therefore "might be difficult for a woman in a short or tight skirt to get into". I think that sums up the Explorer and its potential owners very nicely. When CR tested mountain bikes, one of their most important tests was how far the bike would freewheel down a hill - needless to say the heaviest bike won (as all in the price range use the same hubs). Perhaps if they had included this test in their SUV analysis then the Disco and LandCruiser would have topped out! The only comment I would agree with would be about the rear seat access and that is not particularly awkward - just unusual and you get used to it. The front seats are excellent, in my opinion. I think CR is an excellent source for info on dishwashers and TVs but ignore it completely on car and bicycle matters. Cheers, Raoul Miller From Malcolm956@aol.com Fri Oct 13 11:41:31 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:41:31 -0400 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Subject: 4WD payloads I would like to carry Bob Watson's comments on payloads one step further. If you show Payload as a per cent of Gross weight, there are changes in rankings. The Defender goes to the top of the list, but essentially the it and the Hummer are together in a class of their own when it comes to carrying weight at about 40% of gross. All of the others trail down from a bit under 30% (Disco) to just under 20% (Isuzu Rodeo). I suppose a choice could be made on the basis of either how much absolute weight can be carried or how efficiently is the vehicle designed to carry the weight. By the way, does anybody know the gross and payload of an 88" SIIa? Or any other oldies like CJ's, Broncos, IH? ================ (Comma delimited table) Vehicle, Gross Wt., Payload, % pay/gross L.R. Def 90, 6003, 2443, 41% Hummer, 10300, 4100, 40% L.R. Discovery, 6019, 1640, 27% Chev. Tahoe, 6800, 1666, 24% Isuzu Tooper, 5500, 1290, 24% Chev. Blazer, 5300, 1229, 23% Ford Explorer, 4700, 1050, 22% Jeep G. Cherokee, 5300, 1150, 22% Jeep Wrangler, 3880, 800, 21% Isuzu Rodeo, 4900, 955, 20% Average, 58702, 16323, 28% ================ Malcolm From Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> 13 95 Oct EDT 1911 Date: 13 Oct 95 11:49:31 EDT From: Robert Dennis <73363.427@compuserve.com> Subject: Re Disco Braking Regarding the 202' needed to stop: I have a 1990RR and have noticed on several occasions problems with the ABS system. In Atlanta, where the roads are constantly under repair, they cover holes in the roadway with large 4'x8' steel plates that become extremely slick in the rain. If I am braking and a tire hits one of these plates, it will lock up and cause the ABS system to back off the other three wheels. I can only assume that Lucas designed this ABS system since, once the ABS starts to adjust the braking, I might as well be using the Fred Flintstone method of braking. I quickly realized that releasing and reapplying the brakes would reset the system and braking would be back to normal. I have become so accustom to re-braking that I had forgotten about it until I saw this figure. I don't know if the same system is in use on the Disco, but I could easily see it taking 200+' for the ABS system to recover, depending on the road conditions. (I don't know what CR uses for testing) I imagine that the system is trying to apply braking equally between all four wheels and with the one on such a slick surface, none get any braking. I have driven other cars that have ABS systems and have not noticed this, are there any other Rover owners that have experience this? By the way, anyone know how to disable the ABS system on a '90RR. I have always hated ABS brakes and the combination of Lucas and ABS could be lethal! Rob Dennis Atlanta, GA USA 73363.427@Compuserve.com 13-Oct-1995 From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 13 11:54:11 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:54:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: LR Supermarket parts On 13 Oct 1995, Mark Talbot wrote: > I understand that the OVLR use the Supermarket for their bulk purchases, > or used too ! OVLR has also gone straight to the Merseysides supplier Bearmach for some of the larger orders. There is about a metric tonne on the way from the later right now. Mostly springs etc. From hearsay: Craddock - Hvae a habit of playing fast and loose with prices, shipping charges & timing. Paddock - Can be good, but get a lot of parts wrong Famous 4 - No problems ever heard with them DLS - No experience known... From RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Fri Oct 13 11:56:53 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:56:53 +0000 From: RMILLER@Middlebury.edu (Raoul Miller) Subject: Re: Disco review On reading the rest of the Disco thread - I have to agree with the original poster on the issue of gas mileage. Those of us in North America (some of us in exile) are woefully served by LRNA in our choice of engines. I could not buy a vehicle that gets less than 18 mpg - no matter how long it will last, how good it is, etc., etc. I think the reason that this is so galling is because I know there is the same product out there with a strong, economical engine - it is just that the damned government won't let me import it. So I bought a used Toyota 4 runner (26 mpg on highway) as a stopgap and now I have to work my ass off to acquire a diesel engined LR that I can also use to get to the Yukon as well as do my fieldwork there. Mileage is important in this world, especially when you teach courses on enrgy issues. The technology exists and that's what frustrates me. Landrover might not sell too many 300TDi equipped models to the Mall rats but most of the LR vehicles in Europe are diesel equipped. I am sure that there must be a market amongst the real users for this powerplant. By the way, the salesmen here in Vermont could not even conceive that someone would not buy a vehicle like the D-90 or Disco because of its poor mileage. I think they thought I was lying to them because I couldn't afford it! Just my thoughts, Raoul Miller One day: LR 300TDi, on this side of the water! From HMEdwards@aol.com Fri Oct 13 12:13:34 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 12:13:34 -0400 From: HMEdwards@aol.com Subject: Re: 88 Springs David McKain wrote: " Luckily, he had a listing and said I could get them complete with bushing, U-bolts, shipping and everything for $350. In addition to saving a few bucks in shipping (40 lbs a piece) I'm helping to support the local economy --" David, If you could get that listing and post it, I could use a new set myself. Also the page at www.crl.com could add some more info to help us all. TIA. Harry Edwards 72 Ser. III 88" Las Vegas, NV From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Oct 13 09:10:21 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:10:21 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: 88 Springs David McKain writes: >Just thought I'd bounce this off the list. I visited a local spring >shop due to the increasingly apparent "sag" in the back of my LR. I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 22 lines)] >instead of that of Essex Jct., Vermont. > I'm getting pretty exited about the "new car ride" after I put on >the new springs. I'm confused as to what you're saying here. Are you ordering springs for $350 from RN?? Yoy may note that Young's Springs Inc. makes LR 88 springs with American steel for $130 a piece. These are superior to 'genuine' springs and need to be kept oiled. Young's Springs and other performance aftermarket suppliers are listed on the Land Rover Connection WWW page at http://www.crl.com/~cs/rover.html Young's Springs Inc. PO Box 726 277 West Street Rutland, VT 05702 802-733-7237 Michael Carradine, Architect Ph/Fax 510-988-0900 Carradine Studios, PO Box 494, Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Fri Oct 13 08:13:57 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:13:57 -0700 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 In Australia we have several 4wd magazines and just about every month they have comparison tests between Disco/RR and "Toyonissan wankmobiles" (Ben Elton). The off road part of the test is usually restricted to one paragraph that goes something like - "the Disco/RR outperformed everything off road". They spend pages discussing top speed, acceleration, stereo systems, trim levels etc, generally bagging the Disco/RR then in conclusion the reviewer usually states that the Disco/RR would be his vehicle of choice. In America, we call this "balanced" reporting :-) -- Bob W. From John Brabyn Fri Oct 13 10:11:22 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:11:22 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Locker installed in '87 RR, now I need steering track rod. On Thu, 12 Oct 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote: > weekend, and soon after, while giving it a test run, I bent my steering > track rod. I was able to bend it back into some resemblance of straightness, ... > My question is this: Has anyone ever welded a length of angle iron along the > length of the track rod for strength? I did this once on a '67 Dodge van and > it worked for many years. (at least until I sold it.) David-- I bent mine some time ago in Death Valley and have so far simply left it bent!! It hangs down in a vulnerable position and is in my view a crummy design. Four Wheeler Magazine has to my knowledge bent two of them during tests etc. My bent one gives much better clearance, and I have checked the alignment to make sure it's ok. No doubt leaving it bent is not a good idea for ultimate strength etc, and I am, of course, not advocating that anyone else adopt such irresponsible practices as I do. > Also, while I have your (collective) ear, Where can I get "Old Man Emu" > suspensions for LR's? How about a catalogue? A phone number? (USA) I have > the phone # from the LR FAQ for OME in Australia, looking for a more local > source. (ARB in Seattle?) Jim Jackson, are you "there"? Yes ARB in Seattle does sell them. I have their brochure at home but don't have their number handy right now. > I'm also interested in locating things like skid plates. No relation to > bending the track rod. ;-) The only ones I know of are from Southdown 4X4 in the UK. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From Mike Rooth Fri Oct 13 15:08:37 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 15:08:37 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Introduction and help Um,,,,I had this problem,like you '70 11A deisel 88"? The thing pitched,thumped,crashed about as though it had no shockers,and the springs were solid.Familiar? Usually the problem was worse in dry weather than wet, but I still dont know why.About three weeks ago it got so bad it scared me,I began to fear for the half shafts. I found,purely by chance,that the pull-off spring on the distributor pump had broken.Actually I only looked becuase the throttle had jammed open...... I rebent the end of the spring and re-attached it.It goes from the bell-crank pivot down to the throttle"bar" thing on the pump.Instant cure!Its a different vehicle. Judging by the state of the spring,it was always weak. So you may need either a new one(if its not there at all) or otherwise shorten it a bit.Makes the accelerator a shade stiff,but you soon get used to it,and the ride is lovely. Well,all things are relative! Cheers Mike Rooth From John Brabyn Fri Oct 13 10:16:15 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:16:15 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Real Trucks On Thu, 12 Oct 1995, Leland J Roys wrote: > My response to the subscriber asking about the comsumer reports (Sorry I > forget the name) is that , if you want a truck that just looks nice in the > mall parking lot or to go to Tahoe in 2 inches of snow, get a Ford exploreer, > if you want to really go off-road or do anything serious, get a disco or > Defender-90. ADDENDUM -- If you want both -- get a Range Rover!! Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From John Brabyn Fri Oct 13 10:33:41 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:33:41 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: 4WD payloads I'd be interested to know what the Defender 90's payload is in the UK; I believe it was artificially increased for the US market to get the gross vehicle weight over 6,000 lbs so it would evade various rules and regulations?? Cheers John B From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Fri Oct 13 10:37:06 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:37:06 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: series weights In message <199510131425.JAA15991@butler.uk.stratus.com> Dixon Kenner writes: > LR IIA 88 basic 2,953 1,000 (+ driver & 2 passengers) ; LR IIA 88 StnWgn 3,281 100 (+ 7 persons) ; LR IIA 109 basic 3,301 2,000 (+ driver & 2 passengers) > LR IIA 109 StnWgn 3,752 400 (+ 10 persons!) ; Hummm ... I wonder where the 109 stationwagon gets its 450ish extra pounds of weight ove the 2 door? They have the steel door posts for the rear door, a steel frame for the rear side doors, the rear seats but it just doesn't seem like 450 pounds worth of stuff. Anyone out there done a comparitive study who knows where all the weight difference comes from? TeriAnn Project 2 Doormobile Now I'll have to weigh the Dormobile cabinets! From John Brabyn Fri Oct 13 10:43:11 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 10:43:11 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: Disco review: Consumer Report Aug 95 Janine -- I think after reading all the responses to this, the bottom line is to decide what is important to YOU -- and buy accordingly. If you are not going to do any off-roading, one of the non-Land Rover products may well be a better choice. Most of the Land Rover shortcomings on the pavement are due to the fact that Land Rover is the only company that takes off-road performance seriously, and that inevitably results in some compromises at the fuel pump, drag strip, and skid pad. If you don't want or need fabulous off-road capability, (whether to use or just know you have it) the advantages of some of the other brands are compelling. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Fri Oct 13 10:35:07 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:35:07 PDT From: rlarson@lsil.com (Rick Larson) Subject: '96 Hardtop D90 >From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) >Subject: '96 Hardtop D90 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] >Henry B. Wilson http://vumclib.mc.vanderbilt.edu/~wilsonhb > '59 AHY 100-6 '94 Disco > "The Healey's clean; the Rover's filthy. Life is perfect." With respect to lack of responses, sorry, but your's is probably the 1000th "what should I buy" post I've seen on the list. I can't recommend any vehicle as an investment. The market only goes down, I've seen more D110's for sale used this year than D90's and can't comprehend what keeps their prices up. I'd be interested to know what they actually sell for as opposed to asking price. There seems to be more than enough standard D90s around to satisfy demand. I'd guess that they'll run only slightly better than other 4x4's in resale value down the line. With respect to D90 hardtops. I'd guess you'd break even either way. To convert a standard NAS D90 you'll have to buy all the parts individually. It looks like this means even things like door latches itemized separately from outer door panel, from inner door panel. In the end, cost will depend on how far you want the conversion to go. For example would you want the rear SW seats and roll up door windows or could you live with the bench seat and sliding windows of the standard NAS D90. Early rumors suggest that to obtain a D90 SW you had better run down to the dealer and stand in line. Standard D90s go for a fairly big discount that could be applied to purchasing top parts. Since most of the parts, or very similar parts, are already in your local dealers list as '93 D110 parts you should be able to get very good estimate of conversion cost. It always comes down to an individual decision. Only you can decide how much a vehicle is worth to you. Only you can list your real/perceived needs. I bought my D90 to drive off road. It has surpassed my every expectation in that regard. On the other hand, it is uncomfortable, noisy, uses too much gas, it takes forever to put up the soft top, and has started to show some build quality problems. I knew all that going in to the dealer and am extremely happy I purchased a D90. Frankly, a NAS spec D90's really can't be rationalized. I don't think I've ever made a better purchase. -Rick Richard Larson LSI Logic Corporation (408) 433-7149 From russ burns Fri Oct 13 11:12:40 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:12:40 -0700 From: russ burns Subject: Re: News from the trans-Africa team I heard there was going to be some big doings down under for the 50th. Russ At 07:50 AM 10/13/95 -0700, you wrote: >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >> But they are having a RAVE. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 33 lines)] >sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 13 14:08:40 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:08:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: 4WD payloads On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, John Brabyn wrote: > I'd be interested to know what the Defender 90's payload is in the UK; I > believe it was artificially increased for the US market to get the gross > vehicle weight over 6,000 lbs so it would evade various rules and > regulations?? This is the facinating bit: Vehicle Gross Wt. Payload ----------------- --------- ------- LR IIA 88 basic 2,953 1,000 (+ driver & 2 passengers) LR IIA 88 StnWgn 3,281 100 (+ 7 persons) L.R. Def 90 6,003 2,443 (WOW!) Considering that if you remove the 2.25l iron lump and put in a 3.5l aluminium lump engine, the weights of both are supposed to be quite close. Where is all this extra weight coming from? The roll bars shouldn't be that heavy, nor the A/C. The skin is apparantly thinner in the D90 that it was on the IIA. A couple inches on the frame don't add that much wither. We are trying to find 1,700 pounds plus for the comparison with the 88 station wagon. From (Tom Rowe) Fri Oct 13 13:33:24 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 13:33:24 EDT From: (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: series weights On Fri, 13 Oct 95 10:37:06 -0700 TeriAnn asks: >Hummm ... I wonder where the 109 stationwagon gets its 450ish extra pounds of >weight ove the 2 door? The 2-door regular has the half cab. That full length top on the five door ain't light. (although I've never actually weighed it) Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From "Robert Watson (CNA)" Fri Oct 13 11:05:30 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 11:05:30 -0700 From: "Robert Watson (CNA)" Subject: RE: Re Disco Braking I have a 1990RR and have noticed on several occasions problems with the ABS system. In Atlanta, where the roads are constantly under repair, they cover holes in the roadway with large 4'x8' steel plates that become extremely slick in the rain. If I am braking and a tire hits one of these plates, it will lock up and cause the ABS system to back off the other three wheels. On my '95 Discovery, I've noticed a similary reaction, though I think it only modifies the affected wheel(s). They advertise the new Disco (and other LR's) as having 4-channel ABS (i.e. each wheel is controlled independently) as compared to the Explorer for example which has 3-channel (2-front and 1 rear) meaning if 1 rear tire is skidding, BOTH are modulated. What I HAVE noticed on wet or dry asphalt is that it doesn't seem to want to stop even if the brakes are applied with both feet and no ABS influence. As though the brakes are just not quite up to the task. I doubt you could lock up the tires (with ABS somehow disabled,of course) judging by this behavior. I suppose this is to prevent whiplash stops :-) but it sure has cured me of tailgating! _____ /___|_\___ Bob Watson | | | \ 6405 235th Place SW |---|___|___\____ Mountlake Terrace, WA 98043 | _| | | _ }\ {|_/_ \__|___|/_\_}| '95 Beluga Black Discovery \_/ \_/ From William Caloccia Fri Oct 13 15:42:50 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 15:42:50 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: importing vehicles to the US.... Don't quote me, but the scribbles on my note pad, after a couple dozen calls to Boston and Washington tell me: Customs wants proof of Ownership and a negligible duty (~3.7%) and to fill out a form for the DOT (supposedly not a big deal) and finding, like, THE customs broker in Boston who would still deal with vehicles, they told me: USDA wants your vehicle steam cleaned (with proof) before they'll let it in, and that has been known to hold up your vehicle for a week and the broker put me on to the EPA's vehicle import line in washington, DC... 202-233-9660 Now the _contractor_ there told me that for a PRE-1968 vehicle all you need do is fill out a 3520-1 form, and he said it would be category R, and that should allow it to pass through customs, as long as they think it is of the appropriate age. And he also said that for a vehicle a wee bit younger than that, like, merely 21 years old, you could fax a copy of the vehicle registration papers to the EPA at 202-233-9596, and request an exemption. After a suitable amount of time, they should produce a form that says the EPA isn't bothered and then you're back at the mercy of the USDA and Customs. they said that bonding the vehicle would require the value of the vehicle plus the duty to be posted, etc. and there was something about a $100 fee. Now, knowning that this is from the government, you could call on a different day and get different info... --------------------------------------------------- but me, I've got some '73 Range Rover papers to FAX to Washington... Hmmmm, it won't fit in the 20' container with the 88" S.II and my stuff. Guess I'll have to bring it back after The Nationals next May... & Maybe a trip to Ireland too, I haven't been there yet :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net http://www.senie.com/billc/ 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, because |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R ul N H '72 Range Rover From matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Fri Oct 13 12:46:20 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 12:46:20 -0700 From: matts@cacilj.caciasl.com (Matt Snyder) Subject: Sog /Leatherman Knife (no rover content anymore) FWIW, I have the Gerber tool, use it a lot, occasionally cut wire with it, and just love it. -Matt From Dixon Kenner Fri Oct 13 15:50:14 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 15:50:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: series weights On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > ; LR IIA 109 basic 3,301 2,000 (+ driver & 2 passengers) > > LR IIA 109 StnWgn 3,752 400 (+ 10 persons!) > Hummm ... I wonder where the 109 stationwagon gets its 450ish extra pounds of > weight ove the 2 door? >. Need the weight of a 109 hardtop to see. The middle doors, rear safari door, sides with sliding windows, roof w/ safari top, rear petrol tank with 2x capacity (of weights are with full tanks), middle and rear bench seats... From Daniel Grambihler Fri Oct 13 13:12:28 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:12:28 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Grambihler Subject: Re: 4WD payloads On Fri, 13 Oct 1995 Dixon Kenner wrote > On Fri, 13 Oct 1995, John Brabyn wrote: > > I'd be interested to know what the Defender 90's payload is in the UK; I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 24 lines)] > trying to find 1,700 pounds plus for the comparison with the > 88 station wagon. Looking at my D90 brochure, the following appears under "WEIGHTS" Estimated curb weight 3560 lbs (1618 Kg) Gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) 6003 lbs (2723 kg) 3560lbs + 2443lbs = 6003lbs Looks like GVWR is a contrived number for luxury tax evasion. later - Daniel -- Daniel Grambihler danielg@eskimo.com GAT !d(--) -p+/-- c++++/--- l++ u++/- e+ m/+/++@ s-/ n--- h+ f* g-/+ w+ t+ r y++/--/** '95 D90 From "Curtis V. Palmer" Fri Oct 13 16:25:04 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:25:04 -0400 (EDT) From: "Curtis V. Palmer" Subject: Used LR prices on the Web For the person who requested used Land Rover '89 prices, I offer the following URL... it, of course, is one organization's opinion of the going price, but it does have some nice ratings, etc. For the 1989 Range Rover in particular, use: URL gopher://gopher.enews.com:2100/00/showroom/edmunds/usedmake/used89/landr89.txt This will bring you straight there to the file. To start at the top, use the following address: URL gopher://gopher.enews.com:2100/11/showroom/edmunds You can either use a gopher tool or use the URL's above in your Web browser... enjoy! Curtis V Palmer Atlanta, GA USA hope to buy a '94 Defender next spring From cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Fri Oct 13 13:32:46 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:32:46 +0100 From: cs@crl.com (Michael Carradine) Subject: Re: 4WD payloads Dixon Kenner writes: > Vehicle Gross Wt. Payload ----------------- --------- ------- LR IIA 88 basic 2,953 1,000 (+ driver & 2 passengers) LR IIA 88 StnWgn 3,281 100 (+ 7 persons) L.R. Def 90 6,003 2,443 (WOW!) Considering that if you remove the 2.25l iron lump and put in a 3.5l aluminium lump engine, the weights of both are supposed to be quite close. Where is all this extra weight coming from? The roll bars shouldn't be that heavy, nor the A/C. The skin is apparantly thinner in the D90 that it was on the IIA. A couple inches on the frame don't add that much wither. We are trying to find 1,700 pounds plus for the comparison with the 88 station wagon. That's easy, the extra 1,700 lbs is the ego of course! The D-90 at 6,003 lbs is even more than my stripped SWB 404-S Unimog which recently weighed 4,980 lbs Net. Seriously though, the D-90 must be 'Gross' vehicle weight (GVW), while the Series are probably 'Net' weights. ______ Michael Carradine [__[__\== Rumpole of the Bay cs@crl.com [________] '65 IIA 88 ___________.._(o)__.(o)_______...o^^^^^^ _________________________________________________________________________ Mercedes-Benz Unimog 4x4 WWW page at: http://www.crl.com/~cs/unimog.html From David Place Fri Oct 13 16:08:29 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 16:08:29 -0600 (CST) From: David Place Subject: Re: Het Shields and Vapour Lock or is it? Has anyone ever tried the transistor heat shields that we Ham Radio types use? The could be attached with the special heat transfer cement used on electrical assemblies and they are aluminum and have fins. If no one responds, I will try it and because it won't get hot here for another 9 months of good skating, I will report next summer. On another topic, is our Islandic lady still on the net? If I wanted to bring a Land Rover into Island would I have a problem and what is the Islandic Kroner trading at? I have an Islandic wife and we would like to visit. I understand Land Rovers are common there. Dave VE4PN From Daniel Grambihler Fri Oct 13 14:26:57 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 14:26:57 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Grambihler Subject: D90 Specs FYI: You can find the '95 Defender specs under my LR page at: http://www.eskimo.com/~danielg NOTE: This is a first draft undergoing constant revision, so don't be *too* judgemental. Thanks! -- Daniel Grambihler danielg@eskimo.com GAT !d(--) -p+/-- c++++/--- l++ u++/- e+ m/+/++@ s-/ n--- h+ f* g-/+ w+ t+ r y++/--/** '95 D90 From tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Fri Oct 13 17:59:00 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 17:59:00 EDT From: tdj@fore.com (Tom Des Jardins) Subject: Disco owners, winches, aftermarket or OEM I noticed during this last spate of messages that there are a number of Disco (is this the trendy word?) owners, and I would like to know if anyone, especially in the states, fitted a winch to theirs? (I have to be careful with that wording, my wife may object) Did you have it dealer installed? (I am worried about the air bag foo) Does it interface to the standard brush gard? Is it effective? How much was it? I recall my favorite scene in "The gods must be crazy" where the fellow winched his rover up a tree accidently. Could I do that? :-) I would also be interested in knowing what the best Magazine for the LRO is? Thanks, Tom Des Jardins FORE Systems (412)635-3374 FAX 772-6500 url http://www.fore.com Please note new phone number. I am now at the McKnight road facility. From TONY YATES Sat Oct 14 08:01:38 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 08:01:38 +0800 (WST) From: TONY YATES Subject: Re: 4WD payloads > Dixon Kenner writes: > > Vehicle Gross Wt. Payload [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] > trying to find 1,700 pounds plus for the comparison with the > 88 station wagon. All that extra off-road ability has to weigh something. :-) ========================================================== () ( ) () Tony Yates ( ) ( ) ( ) Bureau of Meteorology ( )( ) ( ) Port Hedland ( ) )( ) Western Australia ( ) ) -------- ------------ ph: (091) 401 350 \\\**\\**\ fax: (091) 401 100 \***\*\ \\*\ email: A.Yates@bom.gov.au \\ ========================================================== From Sekerere@aol.com Fri Oct 13 21:38:41 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 21:38:41 -0400 From: Sekerere@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... how the heck do I decode this blooming thing-it was great when it was just a txt file?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Chris Whitehead From Lloyd Allison Sat Oct 14 12:28:00 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 12:28:00 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: track rods Rangie, Disco, Def trackrods: are vulnerable to damage 'cos they hang below the axle line. They can be assisted with a bracket that bolts onto the rear of the front diff, to give a little support, when a rock strikes. It is not recommended to weld track rods or reinforce them - there are strong safety (and regulatory) reasons not to go altering the properties of the metal, besides you might shift the weak point to somewhere more serious. Lloyd From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Fri Oct 13 21:08:31 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 21:08:31 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: land Rover elephant & a penis What a great put down joke, laughed for ages , brilliant, Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Fri Oct 13 21:13:42 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 21:13:42 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS About 5 weeks ago I offered for sale a number of Land Rover toys. I was pleased by the response and those who wanted toys got them, even if I did run into bid of a delay on shipping them ou. On receipt of their goodies I did not hear of any complaints. One person who asked for stuff picked the three MOST POPULAR toys and I have been holding them since that time for him. His monies have not been forthcoming so I am offering them for sale again. This time the deal is as follows, I want to get the transaction done asap, these have been hanging around too long now. I will put my price down beside each one but you can bid for them as with the stamps, which seems the fairest to all of you. It is now Fray the 13th in the evening. BIDS close evening of Tues 17th of this month. All prices are in CDn dollars. Britains 109 miltary, green, open, paint 8/10 missing front licence number back presentmissing spare tyre on rear, all other wheels tyres OK. no plastic top or accesories except shovel and ppick on fenders. 1/32 scale diecast. A real favourite. CDN dollars 30 About the same size but a little smaller, corgie 109 station wagon safari with luggage on the roof and spare on the hood and spalshed mud (paint) down the side as it came from Corgi, when i say luggae I mean spres like rims, sand ladder etc. Has brush bar on front. about 4 inches long. MInt condition no box. CDN dollars 15 Dinky series one 1949 yellow Automobile Association soft top.. Mit and boxed number DY9-B. box verly slightly marked up. CDn dollars 20 Buy one, pay 5 for shipping buy 2 or more and pay 7 for shipping anhwere in NA. Go for it girls PS still falling about after the elephant VS Land Rover joke. Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Michael Slade Fri Oct 13 21:34:09 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 21:34:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Slade Subject: GPS FAQ? Hi, Just a newbie seriouslly thinking about a GPS. Don't really know much about them except for the fact that I have been in situations where having one and knowing how to use it would have been a tremendous help. Is there a FAQ for the GPS? Are there any good texts explaining basic to advanced ways to use them? I'm sure there are plenty of users/owners out there (I've been trying to keep up w/the GPS thread), and was looking for list members advice. Thanking you in advance, Michael slade@teleport.COM Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81) From "T.F. Mills" Sat Oct 14 00:27:28 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 00:27:28 -0600 (MDT) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: GPS FAQ? Michael Slade asks about GPS. The Nov issue of FOUR WHEELER or PETERSEN'S 4 WHEEL has an article on GPS. Sorry, can't remember which mag it was: I skimmed both at the same time. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Sat Oct 14 04:08:44 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 04:08:44 -0500 (CDT) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: D90n HT I talked the local dealership into letting me borrow one of their demos overnight. Big mistake. New car fever, 1.5 years after dropping 30K on a new Disco. Your report of 3 already having deposits in AZ doesn't help at all. Now I feel that sense of urgency, which as you know is worth thousands of $ to the dealership. Don't know what I'll do, but if I'd followed my instincts on the ZR1, NSX, Boxster, and Cobra R, I'd probably have a few extra dollars in my pocket right now. This picture is not as pretty as the D110, however, since there are already 3000 D90 in the States, each of which is able to be fit with a _removable_ hardtop. My guess is that if you want to make some $$$, get a deposit but be sure to sell the thing within a month, when it will become clear that supply, even at 500, outstrips demand. Then buy a '94 or '95 D90 used and use the leftover cash to get any accessory one's heart desires. However, who knows? Henry B. Wilson http://vumclib.mc.vanderbilt.edu/~wilsonhb '59 AHY 100-6 '94 Disco "The Healey's clean; the Rover's filthy. Life is perfect." From wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Sat Oct 14 04:24:35 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 04:24:35 -0500 (CDT) From: wilsonhb@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Henry B. Wilson) Subject: '95/'96 D90 HT So if the HT is bolted to the frame does that mean it's removable? Henry B. Wilson http://vumclib.mc.vanderbilt.edu/~wilsonhb '59 AHY 100-6 '94 Disco "The Healey's clean; the Rover's filthy. Life is perfect." From Lloyd Allison Sat Oct 14 22:53:41 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 22:53:41 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: ABS Surely ABS operates on a per-wheel basis? I'd be just a bit peeved if all 4 unlocked to keep the one wheel that happened to be on ice (coeff of f' 0.1) turning when the other 3 were on bitumen. Toys: there is a toy shop in the UK with its Britain's selection online (link in my toy page somewhere) http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLand-Rover/Toys/index.html Lock-Right: the club had a talk about them last week and I had a look at the bits. It certainly is simple - which is good. And I actually understood how it works (c.f. I have never seen a good explanation of how a Detroit locker works). But the dog teeth looked rather small, shall we say. We did not get a convincing answer to why they need to make a revised model for manual Rangies (? to make it more expensive ?-) Lloyd From Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) 14 1995 Oct GMT 1902 Date: 14 Oct 1995 02:12:37 GMT From: Roy_H._Caldwell@desktop.org (Roy H. Caldwell) Subject: Re: Re: News from the trans-Africa team Roger, Count me in. I'm in the process of starting to put things on the new/old frame for my 62. It is an 88 but I would love to take her. Just anothoer Coyote in the desert. 97 sounds about right for my schedule. I can do the phots and the writing or just the writing or just the photos. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies -- ......................................................................... WestNet, the Information Service for People with a Passion for this Place Modem: 406-442-3697 (28,800/8-N-1) Info via Internet: westnet@desktop.org Sponsored by Desktop Assistance, Inc. Info via Internet: info@desktop.org ......................................................................... From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 14 95 Oct EDT 1912 Date: 14 Oct 95 12:22:32 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: LR Supermarket >I found the thread about Bat Fastards and LR Supermarket very interesting. I >have know experience with BATs, but I will come to the defence of the LR >Supermarket . I have ordered parts from them mover the years and have had now I actually would confirm this. Ok, they may not always be the best bargain around, but service and shipment was always prompt and the quality of parts was unquestionable. Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 14 95 Oct EDT 1912 Date: 14 Oct 95 12:22:27 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Vertical winching (The Gods must be...) >I recall my favorite scene in "The gods must be crazy" where the fellow >winched his rover up a tree accidently. >Could I do that? :-) You know, I was always wondering whether anyone ever tried to copy that stunt... :-)) I strongly suspect that before letting the antichrist dangle from the tree they emptied out all liquids (petrol, oils etc.) Your vehicle (also Disco), to be sure, could certainly take it, provided the winch was powerful enough. But in real life you would have an awful lot of petrol, oil, battery acid, brake fluid and such dribbling about if you would leave your car hanging vertically for any length of time. (YFMV - your fluids may vary) Stefan From James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> 14 95 Oct EDT 1914 Date: 14 Oct 95 14:32:55 EDT From: James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> Subject: CU report on Discovery Reply to morison@alumni.cco.caltech.edu Janine, CU HATES all SUVs! In fact they don't much care for any car with personality. Note how they tested these vehicles that ALL make significant compromises for off-road ability--they didn't even test them off-road! (Ok, they did drive them across some poor farmer's field where they managed to get all but the Discovery stuck in the mud. That tells you nothing except thet the Michelin 4x4 tires on the Discovery are better in mud than whatever all season tires were on the others.) We bought our '95 Discovery in May and now have 12K miles on it. We took a 5500 mile trip this summer to Wyoming and Colorado for some serious 4-wheeling. I can tell you that while CU has some valid criticisms of the vehicle in general they are all wet on the Discovery. Driving: For a truck the Discovery handles VERY well. Strike that, the Discovery handles very well period. The Michelin tires are superb on and off road. I have no trouble taking posted 45 mph curves at 70 and it dosen't feel scary and on the limit either. You do get more body lean then with a car, but you get used to it. There is no problem driving this vehicle at any sane speed. It cruises effortlessly at 90 mph. If you stomp on the brakes at any speed on most any surface it'll stop so fast you'll lose your chewing gum. I don't know what CU was doing as no other test of the car has had less then good things to say about the brakes. BTW, the Discovery and the Range Rover are the only SUVs that have anti-lock brakes that work in all gears at all speeds. All of the others switch off the anti-lock when you shift into low range or they don't work below some speed--10-25 mph or so. This is a big safty feature off-road. Acceleration is not the Discovery's strong point, but it does improve a bit as the engine breaks in. As for not shifting down when the throttle is opened up--THIS IS ADJUSTABLE! CU should know this! We had the transmission kickdown adjusted and it downshifts just right. This also makes the vehicle feel more quick around town as it upshifts later in the RPM range. The trans is a German one used in Mercedes and BMW, it shifts great--smoothly and positivly. Yes, a Grand Cherokee with a V8 will smoke the Discovery, but any other SUV is in about the same ballpark as far as power and acceleration are concerned. The Discovery will run away from a V6 Explorer. (Compared to the diesel version sold in England the US spec Discovery is a rocket ship. Almost twice as fast 0-60.) Also, the throttle pedal has about 50% more travel from idle to wide open than most cars. This gives excellent control of the engine off-road, but can make it seem as though you always have your foot to the floor. This fools some people when they first drive it into thinking it's really gutless--it's not. Gas milage is rotten. We check it every tank and we get an average of 13-14 mpg. Lowest tank was 9 mpg with over 70% off-road best has been 16 mpg, all freeway at 75 mph. It might do 17 mpg if you drive slower than I do, but this car is hard to drive slow. The grand Cherokee V8 won't do any better and no SUV gets much more than 16-17 average. Interior: I've never noticed that the pedals were anywhere but where one would expect them to be, again I sometimes think that CU uses monkeys to test drive. The power window controls are on the center console to save money--they only need one set that way. Yes, the layout is a little strange but the buttons move in the correct, logical direction. The vehicle IS English, it will be idiosyncratic. I find the seats to be fairly comfortable. I'm 6'3" and never have enough leg room. If one is on the heavy side they are a little narrow and they seem to fit shorter people better than taller. I was never uncomfortable on any of the 12 hour drives we took this summer. Be sure to notice that the rear seat is about 3" higher than the front so that people in back can see out the windshield. Nice touch. I can sit in back. The jump seats are great for kids, who love them. The head room limits them to people under 5'7" or so. No other compact SUV has rear AC. Speaking of AC, CU said that their's didn't cool well. It must have been short on coolant and they didn't check because ours has no trouble with our 114 degree days. The Discovery has a lot of glass and the AC does take a while to cool the cabin down, maybe 7-10 min. on a really hot day. Opening the sunroofs to their first position sucks a lot of the hot air out and aids cooling greatly. All that glass, BTW, makes for great visibility. The Land Rover dealers are really great. We had no pressure to buy, none. And the salespeople really know the vehicle. Ask any other SUV salesperson what the axle and the transfer case ratios are and you'll get a blank stare. We bought the car in 30 min from the time we walked in the door with our pre-approved financing until we closed the deal and signed the papers. We only delt with the salesman and never spoke to a slaesmanager or someone else trying to get us to spend more money. The vehicle does have faults. The one that irks me the most is that the doors won't stay open unless the thing is parked facing down hill. Then they fly open when unlatched. If you have kids you'll be dinging doors left and right. We have the rear jump seats so storage pockets are at a premium. There's no place to keep tools, jumper cables, fire extinguisher, etc. Everything is expensive. (Those wonderful Michelin tires are $170 ea. at discount places.) If you want a great 4x4 that will also be a good car, the Discovery is the best. (We do a lot of SERIOUS off-roading and the Discovery makes it easy. If you want to know how serious, let me know and I'll take you for a ride.) If you really want a mini-van the Discovery will disapoint you. It's smaller, higher and less roomy than any van. We wouldn't trade ours for anything. Good Luck! Jim Mobley 70302.2516@compuserve.com San Bernardino, CA From dlawlor@specialty.com (Doug Lawlor) Sat Oct 14 17:58:48 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 17:58:48 -0400 From: dlawlor@specialty.com (Doug Lawlor) Subject: Ottawa Valley Landrovers Hi, Just wanted to say thanks for the copy of your clubs news letter. I fount it very interesting and informitive. Looking forward to having a new Discovery or D90 some day. Doug Specialty Access Consulting Voice: (709) 773-0037 Suite 215 38 Pearson St. Fax: (709) 773-1020 St. John's Nf. A1A 3R1 Internet: dlawlor@specialty.com From dlawlor@specialty.com (Doug Lawlor) Sat Oct 14 19:18:02 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 19:18:02 -0400 From: dlawlor@specialty.com (Doug Lawlor) Subject: Previous message Please disregard the previous message. It wasn't meant to go to the list. Doug Specialty Access Consulting Voice: (709) 773-0037 Suite 215 38 Pearson St. Fax: (709) 773-1020 St. John's Nf. A1A 3R1 Internet: dlawlor@specialty.com From Duncan Brown Sat Oct 14 19:24:52 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 1995 19:24:52 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Trade request spotted All, Spotted in the classified ads of "Military Vehicle Magazine": 1941 Dodge 1/2 ton WC23?, Command Car, SN T20786759. Excellent driver to restore. Used in "War and Remembrance", "Mission of the Sharks", many parades. New top and doors in box. Have $5000 invested, offers or trade on old Land Rover (LHD) same condition. Pierre Fontana, 6578 Billingsgate Rd., Mobile, AL 36619. 334-661-7098. Not that I expect any of you to take him up on it... Duncan From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sat Oct 14 18:39:37 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Oct 95 18:39:37 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: LAND ROVER TOY NEWS Well, Majorette have done it again. As one of the few current producers of Land Rover toys that are affordable to most of us and available here in North America easily, they are a real challenge to follow. As with any toy company the way to sell is to produce new toys for kids to see on the shelves so that it does not appear to be the same toys over the years. That is unless you are a big kid toy collector like me. The most common way to keep profits up is to use over and over again the same mould with vriations in colour and combination of what the toys are packaged with, ie in sets with other stuff. A while ago while returning from a toy show I found what I thought was a fluke variation by Majorette. The white 90 with roof rack was in a bubble pack towing the caged traile with a lion in it that is normally towed by a Toyota Land Cruiser. The cobinations of vehicles and trailers by Majorette is called their 300 series. Also it can be packaged with the logo "TEAM" on it. In this series number 328 is listed on the back of the packs as being a Toyota and lion cage trailer, the 362 is the familiar Land Rover 4 X 4 and radar trailer and 376 is the Range Rover fire engine towing the water tanker trailer. Today at my local K Mart ( you gotta love them 'Mericans) I found another lion cage cobination with the white Land Rover D 90 but this time with the number stamped onto the box as number 328. I called another K Mart and they have another (already spoken for , not for sale) one. So I dutifully snapped them up and headed home> Upon examination it turns out that thew combo I first picked up has a differrent wheel design than todays aquisition, plus the packaging is different. So they will all stay boxed and I will go pick up the other one tommorow so that I can open one up for the display cabinet. In case you didnt realise, I normally try to have one opened and one mint boxed of theseFrom Lloyd Allison Sun Oct 15 20:35:55 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:35:55 +1000 From: Lloyd Allison Subject: vertical winching It is possible, a good winch has enough pull: several years ago there was mag' article which included a piece about a Diahatsu (?) with elec' winch hauling itself up a tree as a stunt. Lloyd From "Gerald" Sun Oct 15 08:16:26 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 08:16:26 -0400 From: "Gerald" Subject: Discovery transmission and roof racks I'm close to buying a 96 Discovery. Most of its driving will be taking me to work and back. It will also haul a small boat sometimes. Its off-road use will probably be mostly dirt roads (with whatever snow ever returns to the northeast U.S.) after trips on divided highways to get there. Automatic vs. manual: The gear ratios for 1st are 3.32:1 for manual and 2.48:1 for auto. I've seen such differences on other cars. Can someone explain the significance? Reverse is the lowest gear on the manual (3.56:1) but not on the auto (2.09:1). What is the significance of such a low reverse in the manual? I am missing something with the relatively higher ratio in the auto? Roof capacity: The specs for the various roof racks I have seen show a limit of 110 lbs/50 kilos capacity? I figured on being able to sleep up there under rare circumstances. Seems I'll be sleeping inside instead. Why such a low limit? -- Gerald g@ix.netcom.com From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 15 95 Oct EDT 1909 Date: 15 Oct 95 09:38:02 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: '95/'96 D90 HT > So if the HT is bolted to the frame does that mean it's removable? *Everything* is removable on a Defender... From Q234@aol.com Sun Oct 15 10:37:23 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 10:37:23 -0400 From: Q234@aol.com Subject: Have I made a mistake? I bought a 1971 LR 88 SeriesII on 10/12/95. On 10/13/95 (Friday), the main gear shift broke off. It's stuck in 1st gear!!!! Help! I'm sure I can get the new lever installed but I'm more concerned about why it broke off. Is this a sign of things to come? From rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Sun Oct 15 09:21:30 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 09:21:30 -0500 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Subject: early lightweight coming up for sale >From sources that are usuually quite reliable I hear that a very early production lightweight may be coming up for sale. It is in imaculate condition with a lot of history attached to it. I'll tell more as things become clearer. Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Ottawa, Ont. | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers From Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Sun Oct 15 08:22:16 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 08:22:16 -0700 From: Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.) Subject: Subject: Re: Het Shields and Vapour Lock or is it? >Has anyone ever tried the transistor heat shields that we Ham Radio types >use? The could be attached with the special heat transfer cement used on >electrical assemblies and they are aluminum and have fins. If no one >responds, I will try it and because it won't get hot here for another 9 >months of good skating, I will report next summer. I don't think that this will work for the following: Transistors create heat internally and use the heat sheilds to dissipate the heat quickly to the cooler ambient temperature. The opposite is the case with the caburator. The heat shield would be absorbing heat from the manifold and transfering to the cooler float bowl. This would be a good setup for the winter but wouldn't stop vapour lock in the summer. g. From mtzphil@vax.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Sun Oct 15 17:37:43 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:37:43 BST From: mtzphil@vax.ccc.nottingham.ac.uk Subject: Disco brakes I own a 1990 pre-ABS Disco. Robert Watson writes: I doubt you could lock up the tires (with ABS somehow disabled of course)... Oh yes you can. Phil Taylor 1990 V8 Disco 1973 Lt/wt From trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Sun Oct 15 14:33:48 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 14:33:48 EDT From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Subject: Vertical winching (The Gods must be...) =========BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE========= > Received: from SpoolDir by AE (Mercury 1.21); 15 Oct 95 14:22:01 CST > Return-path: <> [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----- =_aaaaaaaaaa" ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Description: Session Transcript 550 uk.statrus.com (inet)... Host unknown 550 < land-rover-owner@uk.statrus.com>... Host unknown ------- =_aaaaaaaaaa Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Description: Returned Content On 14 Oct 95 12:22:27 EDT Stefan wrote: >>I recall my favorite scene in "The gods must be crazy" where the fellow >>winched his rover up a tree accidently. >>Could I do that? :-) >You know, I was always wondering whether anyone ever tried to copy that >stunt... :-)) I believe it was Warn winch that quite some years back, used that very stunt to advertize their 8274. Had a jeep hanging from a tree limb as I recall. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From Rod Ernouf Sun Oct 15 09:32:36 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 09:32:36 -0700 From: Rod Ernouf Subject: (no subject) HELP! How do you enter the 4 digit code to activate the Range Rover radio with computer theft protection? I have the code but don't have the owner's manual for the radio. From "T.F. Mills" Sun Oct 15 14:14:26 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 14:14:26 -0600 (MDT) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Have I made a mistake? Q234 writes: I bought a 1971 LR 88 SeriesII on 10/12/95. On 10/13/95 (Friday), the main gear shift broke off. It's stuck in 1st gear!!!! I'm sure I can get the new lever installed but I'm more concerned about why it broke off. Is this a sign of things to come? I assume your shifter broke at the base. It's a notorious stress point, and prone to breaking on Rovers. I know a guy whose shifter broke 3 times. I have a 1966, and mine finally broke 3 years ago. I welded it back, and a couple of months ago put a new one on. Some people say an old welded one is stronger than an original. A sign of things to come? Your car is simply of an age when old parts wear out. I know another guy whose 1970 88" is stocked with parts, anticipating every possible breakage. That's not to say Rovers are weak or poorly built. The original lasts longer than most vehicles, and even unmechanical people like me can do much of the parts replacement in the field. (That's what LRs were made for.) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library http://www.du.edu/~tomills Denver CO 80208 USA From "Lee S. Underwood" <71603.3051@compuserve.com> 15 95 Oct EDT 1916 Date: 15 Oct 95 16:32:37 EDT From: "Lee S. Underwood" <71603.3051@compuserve.com> Subject: Disco Leg Room (was CU report on Disco) On Sat, Oct 14 James Mobley wrote: "I find the seats to be fairly comfortable. I'm 6'3" and never have enough leg room" James, did you really mean to say that the seats are comfortable, but there is is *not* enough leg room? It doesn't seem like this is a major problem for you, since you don't elaborate and didn't put it in the "faults" section. I'm 6'4" (36" inseam) and have been thinking about a Discovery, but have some concerns about the leg room (tests drives are not long enough to tell). Thanks Lee Greenville, SC From Rick Grant Sun Oct 15 17:21:57 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 17:21:57 -0400 (EDT) From: Rick Grant Subject: SII Brake questions After solving a host of problems with our 1959 SII in preparation for its Ontario safety check test I pulled the drums for a look at the brakes and I'm puzzled. Both the Haynes and shop manuals say the SWB II's are fitted with identical front and rear brakes but on mine the rear brakes seem to be set up differently. On the front, the top spring connects to holes in both shoes, but on the rear the spring connects from one shoe to what looks to be the adjuster. The manual diagrams are not clear enough to figure out which is correct. Neither are the manuals any help in sorting out the adjusters. The ones on the front just don't seem to be doing much of anything and in fact one won't tighten down the shoes at all. During this puzzling journey I found that the rear brakes are badly contaminated and at the least I will have to replace the wheel cylinder seals. But will I also have to replace the shoes? They look to be quite recent although they're near dead black because of all the junk. Although one of the brakes has perceptible leakage from the dust caps the other doesn't. Should I also be suspicious of the bearing seals? Rick Grant rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII Ottawa, Canada From jpappa01@interserv.com Sun Oct 15 18:11:18 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 95 18:11:18 PDT From: jpappa01@interserv.com Subject: Re: Lug nuts! The latest print media ad for Disco is about lug nuts! Not really, but.... All the sales staff at Metro West received a neat wooden base mounting a wheel nut from a Disco, a Ford Exploder, and one from a Jeep G. Cherokee. A brilliant piece of marketing slickness. Even a Rover hater could not make a creditable comeback to explain the grenade-sized and heft to match qualities of the Land Rover wheel nut with the pitiful, sized just like any other car hardward from the Ford and Jeep. The brilliance of the campaign sets in when you realize that you can take virtually any system or component from the Disco (or any other Land Rover) and demonstrate similar comparisons/constrasts! Kudos to the person who finally pointed out to the digest that the Disco has a l-o-o-n-g travel throttle pedal since it - like everything else - is designed to be used off-road. Long, copious throttle travel means you can tickle the throttle to help the vehicle walk over rocks, logs, and other uneven terrain... It also prevents premature kickdown which helps in the fuel economy dept. If you want it to kick down, then *floor it.* Floor-it means just that. Put the pedal onto the floor plates. It *WILL* kickdown! That a V-8 Jeep will out-accelerate the Disco? Simple physics. Lots more hp, and over 500 pounds less weight. No frame, remember. Enough cowl shake to scramble eggs. Drive a Jeep or Explorer over some washboard to see some really dismal torsional rigidity. Rode in a friend's Eddie Bauer Explorer the other day. Every highway bump we hit produced transverse displacement in the hood/cowl and dashboard which was distinctly out of phase. Translation: loosey-goosey! Can't even imagine this vehicle five years down the road. Never mind if it is ever taken off-pavement... Again, I mention that we have a parade of Fords and Jeeps coming through Metro West. I'm still waiting to see the first Discovery in the used car lot across the street at Brigham and Gill Jeep... So all of you that bought the Disco - congrats on your purchase decision! Welcome to the Land Rover Experience. And I agree - if your looking for the real skinny on toaster ovens, microwaves, and cappuchino makers - then grab a copy of Consumer Reports. I'd give a few bucks for list of the vehicles actually owned by the editorial staff of some of these magazines. When the SUV hype eventually dies down and the masses are lining up to buy the next great vehicle that *they* tell us is cool - ubiquitous old Land Rover will still be there - catering to those who can appreciate the differences that can be found in a purpose-built vehicle! cheerz Jim - yes - it's o.k. to put carpeting in a D90 - just be sure you can remove it! `67 2A 88 5.0L hybrid `67 2A 109 5.0L hybrid `68 2B 110 F/C diesel `70 P6B 3500S `90 Range Rover County `93 D110 (#457/500) `95 D90 #1958 From chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Sun Oct 15 22:10:52 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:10:52 -0400 From: chrisste@clark.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Re: Have I made a mistake? >To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net >I bought a 1971 LR 88 SeriesII on 10/12/95. On 10/13/95 (Friday), the main >Is this a sign of things to come? Yep From Duncan Brown Sun Oct 15 22:20:28 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:20:28 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Looking for offroad Disco All, I'm taking a few new Land Rover owners on an offroading expedition this coming Sunday (Oct. 22). I plan to give them a taste of what the vehicles can do, and the kinds of places they can go, on a rough-but-not-at-all-destructive offroading jaunt in the national forest trails West of Harrisonburg, VA. The passengers include a couple of Series Rover owners (one whose vehicle is on the road but not yet up to offroad rigors; one whose vehicle is undergoing massive drivetrain overhaul) and a Disco owner (who wants to experience offroading, but not at risk to his own expensive vehicle....YET [we'll get you out there eventually Stuart!]) We're taking my '60 SII, I have a friend with a '94 D90 going along, and I hope to get a '74 SIII owner nearby to go too. Since a couple of our kids are going too, that may still leave us a tad cramped on seats for passengers. So I'd like to get someone else to go with us...preferably a Disco owner, just so the whole gamut is represented. Anyone out there with a Disco up for some offroading in the mountains of west-central Virginia all day Sunday? The leaves should be beautiful then. Other than paint scratches from close-in brush, vehicle damage risk should be negligible. (Which is not to say the offroading won't be fun!) I'm not looking to put together some big group trip, but if anyone else is interested they're welcome to join in too, even if they don't have a Disco! I'm just specifically trying to get one of those along for the ride so Stuart can see that his type vehicle is capable of everything the old ones are. Give me a yell at this e-mail address or call me evenings at 804-973-1369 if you're interested in coming along. We'll be meeting in Harrisonburg at 9am, and heading to trails an hour West of there, probably spending the better part of the day crisscrossing up and down the mountains. Duncan, aching to get offroad again now that his engine and transmission aren't on their last legs anymore! From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Mon Oct 16 12:01:30 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:01:30 +0930 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Discovery transmission and roof racks > Automatic vs. manual: The gear ratios for 1st are 3.32:1 for manual > and 2.48:1 for auto. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > (2.09:1). What is the significance of such a low reverse in the manual? I am >missing something with the relatively higher ratio in the auto? Well I'd suspect that a low reverse on the manual is to make reversing in tight situations easier. With a low gear you can get off the clutch completely and just crawl along... As for the difference in 1st gear ratios, the torque converter will compensate for this to a large extent. (anyone know the torque multiplication factor for the converter in a disco??) It is possible to troll along at a much lower speed with an auto than a manual. Manual V's Auto... This question will never really be answered, its a case of horses for courses. There are some circumstances where I'd kill for an auto and others where they would be a pain. ( though 4 wheel discs + 4ch. ABS has lessened the problem of engine braking). It really depends upon which YOU are more comfortable with. I wouldnt worry too much about the ratio differences, Land-rovers typically have atheir ratios pretty well sorted out. As for off-road performance...given my limited natural ability, if I had a big pot of cash I'd probably go for an auto, then get bored with it doing everything for me and shift manually and get into trouble anyway....... > Roof capacity: The specs for the various roof racks I have seen show > a limit of 110 lbs/50 kilos capacity? I figured on being able to > sleep up there under rare circumstances. Seems I'll be sleeping > inside instead. Why such a low limit? What are the published limits for Toyota, Nissan etc. do they actually publish figures these days???? Not too long ago the only company publishing roof loading was Land-rover (at least here in OZ). Toyota and others werent interested in warranty problems associated with roof rack usage........ Remember this is a dynamic (ie on/(off?) road) load capacity, I'd suspect that you could sleep up top, mind you its a long way to fall..... As a brief aside have you ever seen what extended usage of a roof rack can do to a tojo (even just the rack empty), cracked pillars everywhere... cheers -- Daryl From rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Sun Oct 15 22:49:27 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 22:49:27 -0500 From: rover@pinn.net (Alexander P. Grice) Subject: Vehicle rankings WRT the thread on the CR vehicle rankings, perhaps this says it all. In 1972, my best friend from college bought his first Chevy Blazer a month or two before I bought my Rover. I'm *still* driving that Rover...he's on his *fifth* Blazer. Cheers. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"----* | A. P. (Sandy) Grice | | Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | 1633 Melrose Parkway, Norfolk, VA 23508-1730 | | E-mail: rover@pinn.net Phone: 804-622-7054 (Day) | | 804-423-4898 (Evenings) FAX: 804-622-7056 | *-----------------------------------------------------* From Benjamin Allan Smith Sun Oct 15 20:09:07 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 20:09:07 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Discovery transmission and roof racks Someone asked about Disos: > > Roof capacity: The specs for the various roof racks I have seen show > > a limit of 110 lbs/50 kilos capacity? I figured on being able to > > sleep up there under rare circumstances. Seems I'll be sleeping > > inside instead. Why such a low limit? The more that you put in the roof rack, the higher that your center of gravity (CoG) is. The higher the CoG, the smaller the side angle that the Rover can safely traverse before rolling over. (All of this becomes very apparant when you have a load of firewood and steel sandmats in the rack, are on narrow track with a 100 foot dropoff on your right, you are making a tight left hand turn, hugging the canyon wall with the right tyre a foot from the edge and you are listing 10 to 15 degrees towards the empty chasm--sorry that was last weekend and I still am twitching a little bit) Anyway how much you put up in the rack will affect your off road driving. Manufactures tend to put a low limit on their racks just incase someone decides to sue. For Series Rovers I've seen suggested limits of 200 lbs. If you are only going to be on flat ground this can obviously be increased. An interesting thing that I discovered is that if you put a lot of weight in the roof rack of a Series Rover (300+ lbs) and attempt to drive at freeway speeds, an positive feedback sideways oscillation develops at about 50 to 55 mph. Or at least it does for me. The oscillation will cause you to loose control if it goes on for long, it appears suddenly and the only cure is to slow down (you ain't accelerating out of it in a Series Rover). As for the strength of the Disco roof, I saw a Disco last weekend that had a roof mounted tent that looked like it attached to the gutter. Two people slept in it, so the roof must be fairly strong. One other thing. How much you can carry depends upon the type of rack. Mine is a gavanized cage with 1/2" or 3/4" steel rectangular tube construction. It is attached to the gutter by 10 legs. I dunno how much a Thule rack that only has 2 cross pieces and 4 attachment points can carry. Most of my comments above assume that the rack you intend to get is of rugged and strong construction. YMMV Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Benjamin Smith------------bens@vislab.navy.mil---------1972 Land Rover SIII 88 Science Applications International Corporation Naval Air Warfare Center, Weapons Division, China Lake "...If I were running such a contest, I would specifically eliminate any entry from Ben involving driving the [Land] Rover anywhere. He'd drive it up the Amazon basin for a half can of Jolt and a stale cookie..." --Kevin Archie From RICKCRIDER@aol.com Mon Oct 16 00:49:42 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 00:49:42 -0400 From: RICKCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Help for prospective LRO. Friend of mine and former neighbor, Robin, is agonizing over buying a series Rover. Trying to get him subscribed to the list. I instructed him to send email to and type only the word 'subscribe' into the text area. Majordomo spits and hisses at him. Have I told him correctly? I've been on the list for quite awhile and haven't had to deal with the major. Can post here, send to me or directly to Robin. Robins email is . Thanks all. Rick Crider kd4fxa Monroe NC 66 SIIa 109" Hugo.....currently up for adoption. 73 Slll 88" Jesse 88 Range Rover From "Adam Messer" Mon Oct 16 1:19:30 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 1:19:30 -24000 From: "Adam Messer" Subject: ...no subject... subscribe lro-digest From jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Mon Oct 16 17:41:09 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:41:09 +1200 From: jawa@i-max.co.nz (leonard john hobart) Subject: Re: SII Brake questions >I'm puzzled. Both the Haynes and shop manuals say the SWB II's are fitted >with identical front and rear brakes but on mine the rear brakes seem to be >set up differently. On the front, the top spring connects to holes in both You could find that the front brakes are twin leading shoe, and have 2 wheel cylinders per wheel, and the the rear maybe single wheel cylinders but with 2 pistons per cylinder >shoes, but on the rear the spring connects from one shoe to what looks to be >the adjuster. are there 2 springs in total in the rear drum? I have not had mine apart yet. . Neither are the manuals any help in sorting out the adjusters. >The ones on the front just don't seem to be doing much of anything the front ones should be cams with a serated working surface, they are quite coarse in adjustment and must be adjust with the drum on, wheel jacked up, adjust till shoes scrape lightly on drum can't help with rear adjustment till I have a go myself >During this puzzling journey I found that the rear brakes are badly >contaminated and at the least I will have to replace the wheel cylinder >seals. But will I also have to replace the shoes? it depends on weather the shoes are oil soaked or not. If contaminated with oil, it is near impossable, and not safe to restore them. Though I have seen old grease monkeys (mechanics) attack them with a gas torch and wipe the oil off as it sweats out. >They look to be quite recent although they're near dead black because of all the junk. >Although one of the brakes has perceptible leakage from the dust caps the other >doesn't. Should I also be suspicious of the bearing seals? If you can't tell weather the oil in the brake area is brake fluid, or diff oil by the smell, try washing out the brake shoe area with pressure water from a hose, this is a safety precaution as it lays down any asbestos from the brake shoes and drum (NEVER NEVER use compresed air) and brake fluid, and dust will wash away, as it is missable in water. If the greasy gunk just stays there, it may well be oil that has leaked out of the bearing seal/diff area. > Rick Grant >contaminated and at the least I will have to replace the wheel cylinder [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >rgrant@synapse.net 1959, 88" SII >Ottawa, Canada regards John From ahyoon@students.wisc.edu Mon Oct 16 01:44:31 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 01:44:31 -0500 From: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Heya LRO's got this one by personal e-mail... >In article you wrote: >: If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail at ahyoon@students.wisc.edu [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >Marco A.( 12 years with Land Cruiser, nothing to complaint) >-- Land Rovers are outdated......they have: - engines based on GM blocks from eons ago - chassis designs from eons ago damn straight.,.they are also the world's best 4x4 vehicle....Those who contend this fact are none but fools. Which company has been making four wheel drive vehicles for 40+ years? Do you see Land Cruisers in the Camel Trophy Challenge? How many 1960 Toyotas are still on the road? No, and there is a reason for that....Do you want me to find something wrong with the LC?...How about the inability to fit a lot of places due to it's sheer bulk? Sorry, the Land Rover is the real thing......everything else is nothing but a copy..........The LandCruiser is a capable machine with good ground clearance and an excellent four wheel drive system.........It is also a vehicle most often purchased by those who consider "off-roading" to be driving on their driveways. One other small point.....as we all know here, there isn't a damn thing that a Toyota LC can do that any LR can't.....plus you have that tiny benefit of the D90 being a few dollars less that a LC.......try $15,000.....*smile* Long live Land Rover.....!!!! Arnold Yoon University of Wisconsin - Madison E-Mail: ahyoon@students.wisc.edu Voice: (608) 259-9936 GO DISCO!!! Normal manufacturers make SUVs that 1995 Land Rover Discovery can go off-road. Land Rover makes "Four Wheel Drive Exemplified" off-road vehicles that can go on the road. From William Caloccia Mon Oct 16 05:29:45 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 05:29:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: vertical winching Lloyd mentions: There is a film (''The Gods Must be Crazy'') which includes an incident of a Series LR winching it self up a tree while the driver is distracted. -B From mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) Mon Oct 16 09:24:40 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 09:24:40 +0100 From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) Subject: Premature timing belt failure Friend's with a 1995 Disco TDi stayed this weekend. They changed their "old" 1993 Disco (200 TDi) shortly after it's timing belt failed whilst cruising on the motorway. This failure occured at about 50,000 miles (they had the vehicle from new) and Land-Rover paid for 75% of the repair bill (damage to various bits at the "top end") as this failure was agreed to be well within the scheduled replacement time/distance of 5 years/60,000 miles. They had apparently noted some increase in noise and changes in power but had decided to ignore it. I get the impression they normally only lift the bonnet to display the engine to visitors. I am sorely tempted to have our TDi's belt changed at 48,000 mile intervals. Martin Farrall From Tom Stevenson Mon Oct 16 10:31:34 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:31:34 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Stevenson Subject: 4WD payloads In my Boys Own Book of Land Rovers, the Gross Vehicle Weight for a hard top 90 Tdi (in the UK) is 2400kg (5291 lb) and for a 110 hard top is 3050kg (6723 lb) When I first bought a LR, I remember asking a squaddie pal how much the army could carry in the back of a LWB. He pointed out the bump stops, and said that when they are touching the axle the vehicle is fully laden. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(01475) 530581 Fax:(01475) 530601 From Danny Phillips Mon Oct 16 11:31:06 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 11:31:06 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Used Landies. I have just read the comments from a chap about used cars (he works at Metro West?) and that the dealership opposite has not had a LR on its used court. It reminded me of a story a friend of mune told me a while back (he works in a Rover / Land Rover dealership). A large Ford dealership (well known in my county) had a disco on their forecourt, and when peeps were checking out the mavericks they were told, that someone traded in the disco on a maverick as ' the maverick was a better vehicle'. this was okay for them until they had a chap in looking for a car for his daughter, who heard this and then said funny it has the same reg as my friends disco that he traded in for another in yorkshire (600 miles away). suffice to say the trading standards peeps are looking into it. bit naughty really, as the maverick is just a nissan with a fraud badge !!!. From tklein@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE Mon Oct 16 11:45:37 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:45:37 +0100 From: tklein@MZDMZA.ZDV.UNI-MAINZ.DE Subject: Nice Toy found Hello, Last week I've found a nice toy for Discovery owners. It's a 1:10 remote control discovery from ROBBE. It has 4wd, 3 diffs, aluminium chassis, freestyle rims, transparent body. It comes with e-motor. The rc-sender and so on are not included! The only problem is the price: 399.00 DM But who knows. It's time to buy Xmas gifts. Thorsten SIII Lightweight (now with HT), Scotti From Mike Rooth Mon Oct 16 11:46:03 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 11:46:03 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Premature timing belt failure Would it not be worth considering a set of Zeus timing gears.Expensive,I grant you,but there for good once fitted. Cheers Mike Rooth From tertius@cssgroup.co.za Mon Oct 16 13:00:56 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 13:00:56 +0200 From: tertius@cssgroup.co.za Subject: Roof rack Hi there from Africa (South Africa that is). I have just suscribed and have read the mail with interest. Just a comment on LR Series roof racks. Locally you would not find a 110 without a roof rack. We seem to exceed the spec quite a lot. My roof rack on its own weighs app 60Kg, I have a 2 person tent on top (40Kg), and load 6 x 20l water and fuel as well for a total of more than 220Kg. I have just returned from a trip to Namibia (on the border with Angola) and although the roof rack bent (the "bow" effect as the supplier tried to explain it away) the LR survived it. It did however influence the handling to quite an extent and once travelling at 110Km/h I had to do some heavy braking with the 110 starting to do a disconcerting dance all over the road. However I enjoy my LR (have had it for 3 months) and I am working up to doing trips further up in Africa. From Mike Rooth Mon Oct 16 11:56:18 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 11:56:18 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Emulations > To change subscription write to: Majordomo@Land-Rover.Team.Net [ truncated by lro-digester (was 16 lines)] > -- > Gerald > g@ix.netcom.com Yes.What oy are talking about was one of a positive epidemic of totty little things that came out as a result of the oil crisis at the time.(LR content here)The Isetta was made by BMW,if memory serves.There was also a Heinkel,with a similar layout,and a Messerschmidt Cabin Scooter,the latter had a very Bf109 layout, with tandem seating and the same arrangement of cockpit canopy as the fighter.To reverse this oddball,you started the engine backwards.They were to be seen later in Bf109 like paint jobs. I had a mate with a Heinkel,which would never self start.When going home off the night shift we would push it into the middle of the works yard.He would open the front mounted door,put it in bottom gear and push till it started.He then ran around the front and waited till it caught him up,whereupon it "swallowed" him and off he went.Presumably it spat him out at the conclusion of his journey. Cheers Mike Rooth From Duncan Brown Mon Oct 16 07:29:50 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 07:29:50 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Military Vehicles Magazine All, I've had a couple of inquiries about Military Vehicles Magazine. Here's the info: Military Vehicles Magazine PO Box 1748 Union, NJ 07083 1 year (6 issues) for $15; 2 years for $25; foreign orders higher (unspecified). Check or money orer only- no credit cards. It is a very well produced magazine with pictures, articles, display ads and private ads. Not surprisingly the emphasis is on US vehicles, but they certainly cover other stuff from time to time and the private sale ads include hardware from around the world and sellers from around the world. The most recent issue (number 53, November 1995) was 80 pages plus covers. The covers always include 4 vintage pictures of vehicles lined up or in action. Duncan From trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Mon Oct 16 07:24:14 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 07:24:14 EDT From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Subject: The elephant and the mouse Whoever posted it, great story! I printed out and when I picked up my wife at work Friday evening I handed it to her and said "Here, perhaps this will help you to understand why I'm such a Land Rover fanatic." She read it and thought it quite funny. She understands now. Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy) Mon Oct 16 08:20:28 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 08:20:28 0500 From: ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy) Subject: Finally got my D90! After a couple weeks of negotiation with the LR dealer (via FAX so they couldn't see how much I really wanted it), I finally drove away with my new D90. :) Thanks to all of you for responding to my queries about the vehicle and for providing opinions. For me, your comments were simply justification for something I had already decided to do. My wife was not quite as taken with the vehicle as I was, and she did all she could to dissuade me from the purchase. She eventually realized that there was no way for her to win that battle, and she relented. However, she now refers to my new baby as, "the car with all the bolts sticking out of the dash." I love my wife, comments and all. I love my Defender, bolts and all. ______________________________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Senior Software Engineer Secant Technologies, Inc. '95 D90 (Red) #3032 From haystack@netspace.net.au (Doug McPherson) Mon Oct 16 22:50:09 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 22:50:09 +1000 From: haystack@netspace.net.au (Doug McPherson) Subject: A couple of 110 Questions Hi all. If you recall, I was asking about what I should look at when buying a Land Rover 110 a few weeks ago. Well, I've looked at a few since then. Now for some more questions ! : 1. A 110 I looked at had a fair leak somewhere near the output of the LT95 Gbox/Tcase. It was hypoid. Is the fluid shared in this box by Tcase and Gbox ? If the fluid isn't shared, what fluid is where? (ie if its leaking hypoid, where's it coming from !) Is a leak bad ? Its dropping enough for the tail shaft to fling it onto the chassis rails, where it drips off. 2. There was some correspondence a week or two ago about the 5-speed LT85 box thats found on 110s. This was introduced in Oz in late '85. Its my understanding that the later Defenders at least run the LT77 5-speed. Why did LR ever bother with the LT85 when the RRs have always had the LT77 ? Was the LT85 replaced because it was a dud, or the 77 got seriously better, or they just streamlined production and used a weaker box 'cos it was cheaper ? Anyway, whats the opinion on the LT85 as a box compared to the LT95 4 speed. 3. One of the 110s I looked at had an LPG (Liquified Petroleum Gas) conversion. I don't know how popular such conversions are outside Australia (even outside Melbourne !), but gas here is 25c/litre v petrol at 75c/litre, so a gas V8 110 runs about the same cost as a diesel 110. In the 110 I looked at the gas tank was behind the back seats. Is there any other place to put the tank out of the way ? I would prefer to have a flat load bed. Thanks in advance for any info. Doug. PS: If anyone in Oz knows of a 110 for sale (diesel or petrol) at under $20k, I'd be interested. From Easton Trevor Mon Oct 16 09:28:00 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 09:28:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Weights When comparing weights, remember gross weight is vehicle plus rated load. The weights quoted for the series vehicles were vehicle weights without load , For example ,the SWB wagon we could reckon to have a gross of about 4500 (3281+100+7*160). For the record Miss Golightly weighs in a 3400 lbs with a full tank, hi lift, tools and traction mats. It is interesting to note the rated load on many vehicles is less than one normal sized passenger in each seat. Trevor Easton From Easton Trevor Mon Oct 16 09:45:00 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 09:45:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Hoisting in trees The thread about winching up trees reminded me of a nice tale about Chevrolet Vegas. It seems they were designed for shipping on special railway cars which had ramps that hinged down each side. The cars were driven on secured and the ramps raised so the cars were nose down. One day a smart loader decided it would be easier for unloading if they could be driven off forwards, so a whole train load was reversed onto the ramps. Anyone want to buy 300 Vegas with pre-oiled chassis and interiors? Then again, when you see a Vega today maybe it was one of those 300! Trevor Easton From ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy) Mon Oct 16 09:37:03 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 09:37:03 0500 From: ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy) Subject: Where to get storage lockers? Can anyone recommend a good mail-order company (in the US) where I can get some storage lockers for my D90? Now that I've just purchased my new Defender, I'm anxious to spend even more money. ;-) Thanks. ______________________________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Senior Software Engineer Secant Technologies, Inc. '95 D90 (Red) #3032 From crash@merl.com Mon Oct 16 10:05:04 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:05:04 -0400 From: crash@merl.com Subject: Disco review CR reports tend to be very closely "channeled" to what CU thinks the 'average consumer' wants or needs... in other words, what they _want_ the average consumer to want or need. Their agenda is in general reasonable, but for those of us who are nonaverage, it's rather grating. ----- The Discovery has a far better suspension than the Explorer or the Blazer. The Disco suspension is soft and has a huge amount of travel- you need that off-road to keep all four wheels in contact with uneven terrain. On the road, it means you _don't_ feel every crack in the pavement; you glide over them. It's a far more comfortable ride than the Explorer or Blazer. You just don't get bounced around. CR admits that the Disco is the best offroad. So why go with a stiff "off-road" suspension when the best off-road suspension is a soft suspension with a lot of travel - AND - that gives you a nice smooth on-road ride? Maybe CR expects bouncing around in an off-road vehicle, but it's neither necessary nor desirable. You stay alert and don't fatigue- a major safety advantage. ----- I also don't understand why CR doesn't take expected vehicle lifetime into account. A vehicle that lasts twenty or thirty years is MUCH more environmentally appropriate than one that lasts five. (something like half of the total environmental impact generated by a modern disposacar is genrated _before_ the vehicle leaves the showroom- costs of mining, smelting, refining, fabricating, assembling, and painting a vehicle.) ----- I can't complain about the Disco's brakes (four-wheel disks - they seem fine to me), the seats are comfortable enough to drive a thousand miles a day solo ( I've done it), the seating position _is_ a high step up but you'll come to like it. You can see what's going on in traffic, and that's half the battle when it comes to staying out of an accident. The other half is surviving an accident and thats almost a pure mass game- more mass = more survivability (Volvo notwithstanding). ----- Final data point- I have friends with Explorers, GMC Jimmys (== rebadged Blazer), etc. They're nice when new. But even at 40Kmiles their age is starting to show- the interior is wearing; the chassis is flexing more than it should, the body rattles are increasing, things are just plain breaking. Sally's got the same mileage and is just barely worn in. I wouldn't give a plugged nickel for the Explorer or the Jimmy at 100Kmiles, but I expect Sally will be barey into a comfortable middle age by then. Sally cost $8K more; to me, it's worth it -Bill Yerazunis From jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Mon Oct 16 07:43:03 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 07:43:03 -0700 From: jjbpears@ix.netcom.com (Jeremy Bartlett) Subject: 109 SW Exhaust Bolting - Proper Diameter? - S.C.O.T.? Well I'm looking at bolting up the new exhaust system on Mathilda ('65 109 SW) and I've come across a question on the appropriate bolts to use. The exhaust system is Genuine LR. The LR parts catalogue lists 5/16" UNF bolts for assembly (with a few 1/4" UNF in places). Come to try this, the set up seems like it would be very loose and only get much worse on application of heat. I've measured the holes and they seem to be set up for 3/8" bolts, a check of which revealed a good fit. Therefore, I currently intend to assemble the lot with mostly 3/8" bolts. Am I about to commit a Stupid Current Owner Trick (SCOT as oppossed to SPOT)? Has anyone else come across this. I don't see any problem with this, any commments? Cheers Jeremy From Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> 16 95 Oct EDT 1911 Date: 16 Oct 95 11:01:36 EDT From: Mark Talbot <71035.3215@compuserve.com> Subject: FREE !!!! SIIA PARTS ALL, My wife has told me to get the SIIA sitting around the side of the garage either cut sold or "OUT OF THERE". I have sold a few bits from it, so here goes, anyone wanting a 61 SIIA in bits, good hood, wings, and drivers door, roof and side windows,anything you guys need, its free if you come to NH and take what you need. There is no drivetrain, a good gearbox and short block.The seat box is good. Mark From Mike Rooth Mon Oct 16 16:59:22 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 95 16:59:22 BST From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: 109 SW Exhaust Bolting - Proper Diameter? - S.C.O.T.? Speaking personally,and as someone who *hates* exhausts, I reckon you need all the clearance you can get...... Its bad enough when the nuts rust onto the bolts,without having the bolts rust in place as well. However,if you *do* use 3/8",let us know how you get on... Cheers Mike Rooth From mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) Mon Oct 16 17:59:53 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:59:53 +0100 From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) Subject: Discovery gearbox The "Sunday Times" (8th October edition, I think) had a very brief note reporting a fault in Discovery gearboxes (insufficient lubrication), and that a modification (presumably FOC) would be made by dealers. Has this been publicised elsewhere? The article was very brief with few details, it was not clear whether the fault was on only new model gearboxes or whatever. Martin Farrall From John Brabyn Mon Oct 16 10:35:38 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:35:38 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: track rods On Sat, 14 Oct 1995, Lloyd Allison wrote: > Rangie, Disco, Def trackrods: > They can be assisted with a bracket that bolts onto the rear > of the front diff, to give a little support, when a rock strikes. Anyone know where you can get such brackets? Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From John Brabyn Mon Oct 16 11:10:07 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: GPS FAQ? On Sat, 14 Oct 1995, T.F. Mills wrote: > Michael Slade asks about GPS. > The Nov issue of FOUR WHEELER or PETERSEN'S 4 WHEEL has an article on > GPS. Sorry, can't remember which mag it was: I skimmed both at the same > time. The reviews I've read mostly don't tell you how to make it easy to use with maps you can actually obtain. The following I figured out from trial and error (ie getting my Rover lost in the outback). To me, the single most important consideration is to get one that has the option of readout in UTM (Universal Transverse Mercator) coordinates. Minutes and hundredths of minutes, or minutes and seconds are for the birds when it comes to trying to figure out your position with any accuracy on a real map -- try it some time for amusement. At least if you're using USGS topo maps, having a UTM readout (preferably in kilometers and tenths rather than meters) makes it a cinch, since that's the grid they use to cover the map. The easiest are the 1:100,000 series, on which 100 meters is a millimeter and there is a grid line every 10 kilometers (10 cm). You just carry a metric ruler and measure from the nearest grid line which is never more than 5 km (5 cm) away. On the 7 minute series, there is a grid line every kilometer, and it's easy to estimate the nearest tenth (100meters) without a ruler. The one catch, however you do it, is to remember all these topo maps are metric and you are dealing in kilometers, not miles -- so apply the appropriate conversion for the vehicle odometer. Hope this is helpful Cheers John Brabyn 89 RR From James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> 16 95 Oct EDT 1914 Date: 16 Oct 95 14:33:06 EDT From: James Mobley <70302.2516@compuserve.com> Subject: Discovery leg room Lee, >I'm 6'4" (36" inseam) Sorry for the confusion. While I never have as much leg room as I'd like I am comfortable in the Discovery on long (12-14hr) trips. We also thought long and hard on the leg room question (I also have a 36" inseam) as the Grand Cherokee had the six way power seats which allows one to tilt the seat base and raise the seat to get more leg room. If the Discovery had power seats we would probably have bought it a month sooner. There is plenty of head room and I've toyed with the idea of having the seat raised and tilted a little, but haven't investigated much. It has been less of a comfort problem than I imagined. We used to have a Porsche 924 and that was the only car I've ever driven that I could put the seat so far back that I couldn't fully depress the clutch. Everything else has been a little to a lot tight. I think you'll find the Discovery to be ok. The rest of the vehicles plusses are worth it. Jim, San Bernardino, CA From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Mon Oct 16 11:51:05 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 11:51:05 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (John Hess) Subject: 109 leaf springs Hello all, My dormobile, rebuilt on a military chassis before I got it, needs new rear leaf springs. I have only had it 11 months and the right rear is sagging; possibly someone re-arched the springs in its recent past? Due to the military nature of the chassis, I am fairly sure I don't want regular 109 springs or 109 station wagon springs. I have checked with British Pacific out here in California. They saw the vehicle and announced that it needed 1 ton springs. I assume they mean leaf springs that were fitted to the 1 ton capacity 109. They are selling these for $240 apiece. In an effort to save money, could someone who really knows military vehicles answer these questions: are the rear leaf springs on military chassis completely different dimensions from civilian? or are they the same length, with different strengths? are the sw and regular civilian springs completely different dimensions? or are they just different capacity? I intend to take my vehicle to a spring manufacturer and get their opinion on the feasability of building new ones for less money than genuine but that plan is being hampered by the fact that I have the swivel balls off right now. please email replies to me. thanks, jfhess@ucdavis.edu Land- -Rover Dormobile, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda GLC owner. #=======# |__|__|__\___ | _| | |_ | (stolen from David Brown) "(_)""""""(_)" From MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV Mon Oct 16 15:01:52 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 15:01:52 -0400 (EDT) From: MFIELD@MOHAWK.WIC.EPA.GOV Subject: Land Rover for Sale All Rover Enthusiasts: My previously advertised Land Rover is still available but only becuase of a lack of funds on the part of interested purchasers. Here is a brief listing of the vehicle again. 1967 SER IIA 109 LHD LWB. SER III transmission - rebuilt about 5000 miles ago. Four cylinder petrol engine completely rebuilt - 0 miles. Chassis completely refurbished. New NATO brush paint. All work done in England by rover experts (rovers are all they do). Includes hard and soft tops, new roof rack and ladder, new ring and pinion gears to improve on road performance (you install if desried), acoustic sound proofing, new carpeting, new door trims, new tires, new brakes, new seats, new safety belts, and more. It was appraised at $13,000 (although the appraiser informed me he low-balled it) but I am willing to consider any reasonable offer. I must sell it due to employment problems. I ordered it from England in March and it just arrived in September but I cannot keep it now. Those who have seen it agree it is worth the appraised value - partly because it is completely rust free as well as because it contains so many extras. If interested, please call Malcolm (202) 260-8921 (days) (301) 349-5712 (nights) or e-mail me at mfield@moFrom William Caloccia Tue Oct 17 07:22:42 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 07:22:42 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: LRO Lists Futures ???? << READ THIS MAIL ! >> Hi Folks, I'll be leaving my present employer as of next Friday (27 October), and will subsequently re-locating to the Boston area. From that date forward I can be reached at 'caloccia@senie.com' (aka. site of my web pages), though I'll be on the road and will most likely be cut off from net for the following two weeks, until I get to my new postion in Cambridge. As you may know the LRO lists have been operating on equipment and network facilities of my present employer for these last five and one-half years (since the list started in May of 1990), and aside from a bit of time, have not incurred any operating costs, to either you or I. I don't expect the plug to be pulled immediately, but I am seeking new host for the LRO lists, as I don't know how long the present server will be left to run once I leave. Though regular administrivia can be done remotely, once something breaks, I expect it will remain so. I won't know until I get there if my new employer would be willing to host the list. At this point our Autox.Team.Net relatives are having problems related to severe load on their mail server, and took measures such as forcing all the large lists to be digest-only mode, so it would be impractical to even suggest that machine pick up another 700 mail users. Though I don't consider the situation to be 'dire' at this point, I am unable to promise the continued operation of the list from 27 October, until a another host is secured. Cheers, --bill caloccia@senie.com http://www.senie.com/billc/ R 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, because +-|--| o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 ul N H '63 SIIa 88" - '72 Range Rover PS Anybody have an 'in' at Rover UK or LRNA that might be able to convince them an uncensored channel of communications between Defender, Discover and Range Rover owners/enthusiasts is a worthy investment ? Or how about Land Rover Parts ? (don't forget to mention all those Series anoraks out there...) From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 17 95 Oct EDT 1905 Date: 17 Oct 95 05:07:08 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Lug nuts! > the Ford and Jeep. The brilliance of the campaign sets in when you realize > that you can take virtually any system or component from the Disco (or any > other Land Rover) and demonstrate similar comparisons/constrasts! True; even more impressive than the lugnuts would be comparing a Defender's front radius arms. Skip the SUVs and start looking on semis for components of similiar strength... (YNMV - your nuts may vary) From Danny Phillips Tue Oct 17 12:44:11 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 12:44:11 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: Timing Belts Dear all, I have had the belt in my tdi changed and got stuck with a huge bill, and then was told by one of my collegues in the owners club that he does his own every 30,000 miles and only cost him abour 50quid and the time (he is a mechanic though). however he has just fitted the zeus timing thingy with the wheels rather than the belt on a 90 tdi, and he said that it has made the engine much better to work on at services because all timing et al is always spot on, considering the bill i had and how much it costs to have this done on a 200tdi i think i will get it done either to my present one or the next (don't ask its all to do with the wife and moving). the only problem is i don't think they have sorted it for the 300 tdi yet. i am no mechanic, but i trust this guy (anyone who dismantles my carb in 3.5 foot of water and gets me running again has got to know his beans) and he will fit it to his disco as soon as the insurers couygh up. From Danny Phillips Tue Oct 17 13:04:58 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 13:04:58 BST From: Danny Phillips Subject: track / steering rods. in the last couple of issues of Land rover Owner Intl and / or land rover world someone had put tubing around either their track / or steering rods, if i can find the issue number i will let you know. it was to stop them getting bent off road, and now it just rolls over the obstruction. i am no expert just passing it on. From rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Tue Oct 17 08:18:38 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 08:18:38 -0400 From: rvirzi@gte.com (Robert A. Virzi) Subject: re: GPS FAQ Michael was looking for a FAQ on GPS. Don't know of an electronic version, but the BSROA newsletter has been running a multi-part series on GPS (4 or 5 parts). I think it is written by Jim Pappas as he has a GPS equipped D110. Jim reads this list and is BSROA president, so perhaps you should contact him. I hear he doesn't bite. ;-) -Bob rvirzi@gte.com Think Globally. === +1(617)466-2881 === Act Locally! From Easton Trevor Tue Oct 17 08:55:00 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 08:55:00 DST From: Easton Trevor Subject: The Elephant and the mouse Great story, but now my wife wants to know why I need the Landie From "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Tue Oct 17 08:51:00 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 08:51:00 -0400 From: "christian (c.j.) szpilfogel" Subject: re:Discovery gearbox Do you mean the Manual as opposed to the Auto? Also has anyone noticed that the digest has been a little short these days? The index claims 61 articles for 951017's digest but mine ends abruptly at article 26 and then has the last ~10 lines of the standard trailer by Majordomo. Cheers, -Christian '95 Discovery >Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 17:59:53 +0100 >From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] >details, it was not clear whether the fault was on only new model >gearboxes or whatever. >Martin Farrall From ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy) Tue Oct 17 09:03:39 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 09:03:39 0500 From: ross@secant.com (Ross Leidy) Subject: Re: Land Rover is Film In <199510170211.VAA21712@butler.uk.stratus.com>, on 10/17/95 at 11:38 AM, Tiffany Downing said: >I watched the Hunt for Red October on television last night and the main >character Jack Ryan (played by Alec Baldwin) was driven to the airport in a >Dark Blue Range Rover. Another one for the list! >Happy Rovering! >Tiffany Downing Sure, the Rover was great, but personally I was more interested in the driver (Gates MacFadden). ;-) ______________________________________________________________________ Ross Leidy (ross@secant.com) Senior Software Engineer Secant Technologies, Inc. From Duncan Brown Tue Oct 17 09:15:48 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 09:15:48 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Re: Bushings and things > Don't overtorque the hanger against the bush when refitting. I guess > torqueing the nut down tight is ok, but you don't want the hangers > to bind against the bush. I may be all wet (and sometimes am, when it rains...canvas top you know...but I digress...) but I thought the whole point was to have the hangers (both the frame ones and the shackle plates) bind against the center tube of the bush. You not only want the hangers to bind against the bush, you want them to become as one! (That's why the center tube sticks out more than the outer one.) Once you've done that, then you not only get the rubber vibration isolation of the bush, you also get its torsional resistance characteristics. That's why it's important to loosely assemble everything and only tighten it all up once it's settled back down on the ground. (Otherwise you might tighten it up in the air and immediately rip it or at least stress it way to one side at rest on the ground.) To do as you say is going to allow the bolt to rattle up and down inside the center bush tube, which will oblong it in no time. You'll also get wear on the inside surfaces of the shackles (which you can replace) and the frame hangers (which are not so easy to replace!) and lateral motion of the spring ends when turning. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the proper advice is CRANK THOSE MOTHERS DOWN!!!! Duncan From Rob Bailey Tue Oct 17 07:23:23 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 07:23:23 -0600 (MDT) From: Rob Bailey Subject: Vertical winching (The Gods must be...) >>I recall my favorite scene in "The gods must be crazy" where the fellow >>winched his rover up a tree accidently. >>Could I do that? :-) >You know, I was always wondering whether anyone ever tried to copy that >stunt... :-)) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >brake fluid and such dribbling about if you would leave your car hanging >vertically for any length of time. (YFMV - your fluids may vary) I saw the movie quite recently, and if you look closely, the LR has been modified quite a bit. I figure it is just a shell mock up of the LR. It has no diffs and the underside of the vehicle is very flat and non-descript. I was watching it on a Laser Disc, so the picture was very clear, and I watched that scene over a couple of times to be sure. It's really too bad, but I bet it was alot easier than actually winching it up into the tree. Rob From "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Tue Oct 17 15:40:23 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:40:23 GMT+200 From: "GAWIE VAN BLERK" Subject: GPS, National Geographic, Roof Racks? Hi all, Just a quick word on GPS's to start off, then a must see film appearance. As a daily user of these wonders of modern technology I would like to offer the following input on the current discussion on GPS's. 1) GPS's navigate in straight lines. 2) GPS's are seldom more than 100m/300ft accurate 3) On altitude 100m makes a big difference. 4) Look at the new models like Garmin GPS40/45/75, the moving map display is real handy. 5) You can always do with more waypoints to store. (You are always go to new places and return to old ones) 7) Routes can be handy but are not essential. 8) They work under trees and clouds, but do not like being near rocks or on the side of mountains high buildings. (Some satelites might be hidden) 9) They are not compasses and cannot indicate direction unless you are moving. 10)Make sure the model you are looking at is completely waterproof. 11)If you rely on it, make sure you have some form of backup(compass/map two way radio etc). 12) Look at the update rate. In city trafic an update of 1/sec means you will miss turn. On Saturday I watched the National Geographic film "Serengeti Diary" - Lots of Land Rovers. It starts off with someting like "... it is six hours drive by Land Rover from..." goes on showing many models used in Tanzania and even shows a Zebra being caught by the tail using a Land Rover. Most libraries should be able to obtain a copy. Then one last question.... :"How much load can a Land Rover REALY take on the roof???? Greetings Gawie and the Little Green Dragon.(Converted to a Pick Up for the time being) Gawie van Blerk --------------------------------------------------------------- Internet : A48462@bfnnfs01.eskom.co.za (work) : gawie@pixie.co.za (home) URL : http://www.pix.za/0/business/bloemfontein/gawie.html Tel : 27+51+404-2421 --------------------------------------------------------------- From skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Tue Oct 17 10:03:48 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 10:03:48 -0400 From: skidmore@mail02.mitre.org (William E. Skidmore) Subject: Chopped List Summary-only received Nbr 1-27 help From Ted VanDecar Tue Oct 17 07:07:16 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 07:07:16 -0700 From: Ted VanDecar Subject: Are there any conversions to limited slip differentials for a D90? Front, rear axle? I am not enamored with the Locker option. Warm regards, Ted Van Decar '94 D90 From ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Tue Oct 17 10:59:58 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 10:59:58 EDT From: ScottFugate_Group8@ctdvns1.ctd.ornl.gov Subject: Rochester Carb Idle Adjustment Gang, I've got a IIA 88 that is getting hideous gas mileage - 9-10 mpg (on a good day). I know my Rochester Carb is thirsty, but I know I can do better than this. Actually, I HAVE done better. It seems that my last "tune-up" really was a "screw-up" in that mileage got much worse. All the other adjustments have discreet adjustment points which I have no problem meeting (dwell, timing, valve clearance, etc.), but carb rich/lean adjustment is done by "ear", and it seems I'm tone deaf. Can the collective wisdom of the list help here? There ain't no gas stations where I deer hunt, and I really don't want to carry extra in a can. Help me it get back right, and I'll leave well enough alone - promise. By the way, I rebuilt the carb about eighteen months ago, the head about a year ago, and have compression of around 150 in all cylinders, (within 5 psi) and the thing runs just fine. At highway speeds the fuel gauge goes into a free fall, though. Save the comments about getting a Weber, Zenith, Solex, etc, please. Budget says I have to make the best with what I've got. Carb's rich, I'm not. Thanks in advance, Scott Fugate 1970 IIA 88 1989 RR BT From "S.W.Brierley" Tue Oct 17 16:32:41 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 16:32:41 +0100 From: "S.W.Brierley" Subject: Recon LR Ser III G/Box. Opinions? Hi LRO's I was wondering if any UK LRO's had any experience of reconditioned gearboxes, I mean properly reconditioned, not just cleaned and oiled versions. My Ser III (EMMA) Sports a V8 and has over the years taken its toll on the already welll used gearbox, so i would like to replace the unit with a reconditioned unit from a reputable dealer/garage. I have already consulted a dealer (whose n me is a part of the lower body hint hint)who quoted me a reasonable price, I was just wondering if any of you guys/girls (equal rights) had had any dealings with this matter and would like to recommend or otherwise certain companies. Plus, whAt are the boxes like after a recon, do they last well????? I understand that the usual guarantees go out of the window because I have a non standard engine but that seems fair comment to me, I also intend to fit the unit myself (fingers crossed). So any help/advice/info would be very much appreciated. thanks in advance ....Stu. Try to mail me direct as i don't always have the time to read the digest. swb@xserv1.dl.ac.uk Proud owner of '76 SWB Ser III V8. It aint reliable but hell its got character. "Hey mister, why is it called Emma???" "coz, son, its short for Haemhorroid, thats coz its a pain in the ass!!" From "Sean McInerney" 17 1995 Oct -0500 1911 Date: 17 Oct 1995 11:15:05 -0500 From: "Sean McInerney" Subject: Left out. Left out. HEY! HOW COME I RECIEVED ONLY 26 OF 61 SUBMISSIONS TO THE LRO DIGEST FOR OCT. 17? Sean C. McInerney From Duncan Brown Tue Oct 17 12:11:19 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:11:19 -0500 (EST) From: Duncan Brown Subject: Rochester carb adjustment: pry from manifold, hurl in trash Scott, > I've got a IIA 88 that is getting hideous gas mileage - 9-10 mpg (on a good > day). I know my Rochester Carb is thirsty, but I know I can do better than > this. Actually, I HAVE done better. It seems that my last "tune-up" really > was a "screw-up" in that mileage got much worse. All the other adjustments My 88 came with a Rochester originally. I'm sorry, I simply can't believe any *design* was ever involved in that conversion. Somebody found a carb that would bolt up to the Rover manifold and sold it as a conversion kit. The dang thing just isn't right for the engine. I spent a lot of time playing with mine and could never get the peformance or the mileage I wanted. I swapped to a 1 barrel Weber, which was much better performance and decent mileage. I now have a Zenith, which gives me great performance and great mileage (though those could also be due to the new Turner engine bolted to the Zenith, heh heh...) > and the thing runs just fine. At highway speeds the fuel gauge goes into a > free fall, though. Save the comments about getting a Weber, Zenith, Solex, > etc, please. Budget says I have to make the best with what I've got. Carb's > rich, I'm not. Sorry, you must listen to reason. Let's use conservative numbers. In 4000 miles, you are using about 400 gallons of gas. Call that $400. If you even only got 15mpg, you'd use only 267 gallons of gas in those 4000 miles. Call that $267, and there's a $133 savings right there. Surely you can come up with a used Zenith carb and a rebuild kit for less than that! (and using a more realistic price for gas, and a more realistic estimate of the mileage increase, will only make the payback happen quicker!) Ditch the Rochester. If not for yourself, for the environment and the worldwide oil supply!!! Duncan From trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Tue Oct 17 11:24:00 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 11:24:00 EDT From: trowe@ae.agecon.wisc.edu (Tom Rowe) Subject: Re: GPS On Tue, 17 Oct 1995 15:40:23 GMT+200 Gawie van Blerk wrote: >Just a quick word on GPS's to start off, then a must see film >appearance. As a daily user of these wonders of modern technology [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] >1) GPS's navigate in straight lines. >2) GPS's are seldom more than 100m/300ft accurate Snip I read recently that permanant ground based reference points are being set up for the satelites. Supposedly this will enable them to constantly check their own postions and inform your GPS receiver where it is to an accuracy within a few feet. You'll be able to use your GPS to tell you if you are in your living room or garage (since I know for some of us with the preponderance of LR parts, it's often hard to tell) Tom Rowe UW Center for Dairy Research Madison, WI 53706 | Four wheel drive allows you to get stuck wk 608-265-6194 | in places even more inaccessible hm 608-243-8660 From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Oct 17 09:32:41 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 09:32:41 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Evolution of ascii art. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Evolution of ascii art. >> jfhess@ucdavis.edu writes: >> >> #=======# >> |__|__|__\___ >> | _| | | _ | (stolen from David Brown) >> "(_)""""""(_)" To which I really must confess, and give credit to Simon Gair, from whom I stold this: u91f02@uk.ac.manadon #=====# |___|__\___ | | | | "'O'""""'O'" And after a short while, while inquiring about larger tyres for the 88 IIa, a fellow "netter" came up with something similar to my current 88 shown above, and I added the rino bar too. Then, I "stretched" it a bit to make a 109. (That's the way LR did it isn't it?) (Remember the "Popeet LR stretcher"?) ;) The RR came from Brian Tiedemann (S914440@minyos.xx.rmit.edu.au) who had: ______ / / | \___ \_ - __ - _: {*} {*} And I again stretched it and added rear doors and rino bar. Similarly with the Disco, which came from Peter C. Parsons. (no e-mail address known.) So, Thanks to all who have helped to contribute to my LR ascii collection! (I have many more that have been posted over the past 18 months or so that I've been "here".) #=====# #========# -------,___ ________ |___|__\___ |___|__|__\___ |--' | | \_|_ /__/__|__\___ | _ | |_ |} | _ | | |_ |} | _ |--+--|_ | \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""(_)" "(_)"""""""(_)" ||_/_\___|__/_\_|} (_) (_) (_) (_) 1971 "88" IIa 1970 "109" IIa 1994 Discovery (Sold) '87 Range Rover LIC: LION B8 Historic plates (Too hard to "draw") rear Lock-Right P.S. How about a "109" stretch limo? Would it no longer be a 109??? #===============# |___|__|______|__\___ | _ | | | |_ |} "(_)""""""""""""""(_)" P.P.S. The "beauty" of this ascii art can only be appreciated when you know the IBM mainframe system it was created on!! Dave (ascii) Brown #=======# ________ We make a living by what we get, |__|__|__\___ /__/__|__\___ we make a life by what we give. | _| | |_ |} \_/-\_|__/-\_|} "(_)""""""(_)" (_) (_) Winston Churchill From Sanjay Prasad Tue Oct 17 12:59:25 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 12:59:25 -0500 From: Sanjay Prasad Subject: Heat from Muffler I have a 1990 Range Rover which has a hot spot on the floor by the back seat right behind the center console. This spot appears to be directly above the muffler. My first thought was that there is a hole in the muffler, but if this is the case then I would think that the exhaust would sound much noisier than it is. Does anyone know if this is a normal occurrence, or is it something that I should have checked out? From Michael Slade Tue Oct 17 10:01:05 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 10:01:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Slade Subject: Re: Evolution of ascii art. OK Dave, Do you do consignment art? I was looking for a Dormobile and a Carawagon ASCII piece of art. Will trade for????? slade@teleport.COM Public Access User -- Not affiliated with Teleport Public Access UNIX and Internet at (503) 220-1016 (2400-28800, N81) From "Bobeck, David R." Tue Oct 17 13:12:30 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 13:12:30 EST From: "Bobeck, David R." Subject: Young's Springs The correct number for Young's Springs is (802)773-7237. I called and Bob was out for lunch. Waiting to hear back. Cheers From Chris Haslam Tue Oct 17 13:36:27 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 1995 13:36:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Haslam Subject: 88 RR (3.5l) Block heater RN want $80 U.S. for a "real" LR block heater. Can anyone tell me an after-market source, i.e. manufacturer and part number? ...chris From Leland J Roys Tue Oct 17 10:38:45 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 10:38:45 PDT From: Leland J Roys Subject: GPS Accuracy GPS Notes, For the person asking about GPS accuracy. Currently the goverment purposely lowers the accuracy of civilian GPS systems, there is a fancy name for this called "selective something..." The GPS system has the full capability to accurately take your 2000 miles and put you on a dime, but the goverment (Military) is worried that people will use this to land a missle in the front yard of your house, so they basically take away the altitute accuracy of the GPS. Because GPS is the best thing since sliced bread for airplane navigation, they are going to add ground based units to send out a radio singnal (not as high frequency as the GPS) to compensate for the lack of accuracy, it will then be able to take an airplane right down to the runway (even in thick fog). Because these units will be based near airports, the range will probably make it useless for using a GPS off-road in the wilderness, you will still have the accuracy problem. But in the end, the accuracy of GPSes is so good, even with the error, that is really doesn't matter. I have used mine to go hiking and off-road many times and it has always taken me back to base camp + or -100 feet or so. If I am still lost after being 100 feet from camp I must be dead already anyway. Also, someone noted that GPSes are not compass(es) unless you move. This is true, but I have used my GPS as a very accurate compass off-road. As long as you are moving more that 2 miles per hour (very slow walking always worked for mine) it will show your compass heading, also my Magellen GPS will show compass corrected for magnetic variation, or not, so it is very accurate. Have fun tracking.... Leland Roys roys@cup.hp.com Cupertino, CA 1994 Defender-90 (Red) From William Caloccia Tue Oct 17 13:44:21 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 95 13:44:21 -0400 From: William Caloccia Subject: beached land rover (Daily Telegraph, p 3, 17 Oct 1995) It seems that one of the television crew for the British comedy duo of Dawn French and Jennifer Saunders parked a bit below high tide while filming a spoof segment on Baywatch while on Location at Burnham-on-Sea. Rob Hopkins of Weston Recovery Service yanked it out with a '42 tank recovery vehicle is quoted stating: "I think most of the crew are from London and they