From ketil@tvnorge.no (Ketil Kirkerud) Mon Jan 2 11:58:02 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 11:58:02 +0100 From: ketil@tvnorge.no (Ketil Kirkerud) Subject: Re: Gas Tank Question > > My roommate related the story of a co-worker who had an accident with an > explorer -- rear-ended someone at 15mph. Did $9,000 worth of damage. My > roommate did the same thing in his toyota truck at 40mph for $4,000 worth of > damage. I doubt a Rover would have much at all in the way of damage. My brother rear-ended a smallish Toyota with my Land-Rover. The Toyo was standing still, but took a leap, and hit a car in the opposite lane. Results : Land-Rover : new glass for indicator light, and a bill of about $400 for straightening out the lefthand bumper-bracket. The other cars were totalled. I'd estimate the speed at about 50 Km/H.... -------------------------------------------------------- Ketil Kirkerud Lillebil TVNorge A/S 1979 109" Petrol SW. From Gregory Brown Mon Jan 2 09:33:38 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 09:33:38 -0500 (EST) From: Gregory Brown Subject: Paddock,Craddock, and Mercyside Erik asks about Paddock: AEW Paddock is an English supply house of .......... Land Rover parts. Also there are two other frequently mentioned on the net Parts Houses:John Craddock and Mercyside Land Rover. Also at the end of the digest is a WWW site for the Land Rover home page. There is a lenghty listing of suppliers in the US, UK and the rest of the world. If you need more help and want the telephone numbers and addresses let me know. Greg '71 Series IIA 88 Connecticut, USA Aaah new rocker shaft and rebushed rockers.... Umm oil pressure still poor From Steve Methley Mon Jan 2 20:46:43 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 95 20:46:43 GMT From: Steve Methley Subject: rust off steel To the person with a rusty chassis: Try a wire brush in an angle grinder - not the electric drill type, but one _rated for the grinder speed_. If you've never seen it you'll wonder why you did it any other way. I assume you know the other safety requirements too, of course. Cheers, Steve, 79RR. From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 2 12:53:54 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:53:54 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Reverse Lights Etc. >Greg asked about Spanish ODs: >Toro is the brand. I have heard that they have a bigger oil reservoir and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >supposedly more robust than the Fairey units. It's a direct replacement. I >don't understand why ABP wants another $100-$200 for them. If that's the case, I have (I think) a Toro on my 109", and every one keeps telling me that it's terrible, and I should sell it to them for $50... There are some things that make it better than the fairey, but I don't remember what they are. I do know it has a dipstick on the top to check the oil. Wonder why the transmission & Transfer case don't have one? If they're available, I'll probably get one for my 88" (when I win the lottery). --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 2 12:53:48 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:53:48 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Reversing Lights Why not just wire up a manual switch? Since the lights aren't stock issue, you could probably also remove them. Silly question here... Did you check to see if the bulbs work? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 2 12:53:51 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 12:53:51 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: The 'Anti-Christ' There was an article in the last Aluminum Workhorse about various movies starring Land Rovers. And in the issue before that, some talk about what the ultimate land Rover movie is. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Jan 2 17:12:31 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 17:12:31 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: XMAS gift from my Land Rover This is my second posting to LRO Digest, and I have a problem which requires some pondering! I live up in Northern Quebec, about 40 miles from Ottawa, with wife, son, dog and a 1974 Series III Land Rover, that I am trying to keep in good original condition. I was planning to give my LR a XMAS present by taking it on holidays for a week, but it look like it beat me to it. The problem started over a month ago when it seemed to be charging intermittently. I took the LUCAS alternator into a shop in Ottawa to check. They replaced the stator and voltage regulator to the tune of $150. I put it on and everything seemed OK. Last weekend I took it for a longer drive and noticed on the way back that it had gone off charge. I left it for a week and then went out to check it for the trip. When it went to start it I noticed the warning light was not on. I thought aha!, the warning light is burnt out and because it is directy connected to the circuit the alternator is not charging. Several hours later I was convinced that the alternator was the problem. Because if I took a jumper lead and connected it to the IND terminal on the back of the alternator, and then to the negative post of the battery (grounding it) the warning light would come on. Yesterday being XMAS eve, I was getting desperate and went over to a friend's place (Dr John Wotton - for those OVLR members) whose poor Land Rover is now resting peacefully under a crabapple tree, waiting for a frame restoration. John was good enough to let me borrow his alternator. Brought it home put it one! Same problem. John said his alternator was working when he parked it over a year or two ago. Now is it possible that 2 LUCAS alternators would both have the same problem on XMAS eve. Decided to investigate further! After several hours yesterday I have tried the following. Have checked and bypassed connections on both sides of the warning light. Everything OK. I can get the light to light up if I ground the connection that goes to the IND terminal of the alternator. I have tried grounding the alternator directly to the negative post of the battery. NO change. I have checked both the the S and + connections to the alternator. OK, power is going thru them to the alternator. Does this warning light simply get power from the white wire coming from the ignition switch and ground thru the IND terminal of the alternator? If so it would seem that there is a open circuit in the alternator! This is getting long, so I am going to leave it there. I hope that is enough. At this point I am still perplexed, so I guess the LR will be resting peacefully till early January, as we go off in our old VOLVO. A Hearty Merry Christmas to all LAND ROVER enthusiasts out there!! :-{> Cheers! From "Jurgen Klus" Tue Jan 3 08:45:06 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:45:06 GMT-0930 From: "Jurgen Klus" Subject: Goodbye unsubscribe lro-digest Jurgen Klus Voice 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 From "Jurgen Klus" Tue Jan 3 08:42:08 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:42:08 GMT-0930 From: "Jurgen Klus" Subject: Goodbye Well, all comes to pass. I must bid yee all farewell. I must leave this wonderful group of people, who all have such good taste! Yes, my esteemed employer, (Flinders University), has made me redundant. I am so sad, after all these years, thrown upon the heap at such a young age (I'm only 36!). What's worse, there goes my internet connection! What will I do with all that grubby money they're going to give me? Well, I guess I'll just have to drive my Discovery around and think about it! As Douglas Adams said (Hitch Hickers Guide to the Galaxy), See you, and thanks for all the fish. the best to all of you....... Jurgen Klus Voice 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 02 18:30:39 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 18:30:39 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Reversing Lights Chris.. Reverse lamp switch.... Atlantic British lists one and I imagine Rovers North does too... You can probably find a compatible switch at a good electronic supply place. As far as repairing the speedo... You could call Rovers North for starters.. Also, pick up a copy of Hemmings Motor News and check the ads for places that repair guages. If you've never seen Hemmings, its a thick monthly magazine that caters to the old car hobby and consists mainly of ads for vehicles for sale. Good source of info on speciaized restoration services. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 02 18:30:28 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 18:30:28 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Erik... > Rust and Paint Removal?? ...... > and take it to be sandblasted, nor do I want to make a career of wire > brushing by hand. Suggestions? > Also, what's the best way to remove the paint from the body panels? I'm faced with a similar situation with my '65. For right now I'm sanding or wire-brushing. Once Winter is over I'll be ready to attack the frame. I've considered sandblasting it, but then there is the problem of getting sand inside the frame. A few people I know have had thier frames galvanized but that means you have to haul it somewhere to be done. Have you considered renting a sandblaster?? > The last question: What is "Paddocks" refered to in the digest? More That would be A.E.W. Paddock Motors Ltd, a supplier of Land Rover parts in the U.K. I've had good luck with them, others have not. Not all the parts they supply are "genuine Land Rover". Prices are pretty good. Phone # (0629) 584499, Fax (0629) 584498 if you're interested. If you can find a copy of "Land Rover Owner" magazine, you'll see ads from Paddock and other suppliers. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 02 19:00:07 1995 Date: Mon, 02 Jan 1995 19:00:07 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Reverse Lights Etc. Roger... > If that's the case, I have (I think) a Toro on my 109", and every one > keeps > telling me that it's terrible, and I should sell it to them for $50... none True, true! Rotten piece of machinery... Sell it to me for $50!! I'll even pay the shipping... :) > There are some things that make it better than the fairey, but I don't > remember what they are. I do know it has a dipstick on the top to check > the > oil. Wonder why the transmission & Transfer case don't have one? Actually, I don't know squat about the Toro, but the Fairey I have also has a dipstick. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From FHYap@aol.com Mon Jan 2 20:20:11 1995 Date: Mon, 2 Jan 1995 20:20:11 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Discovery & Religion Queries: (1) Would a Discovery have similar damage to the Explorer or Toyota (what model) if it rear ended another vehicle (as described in a recent mailing)? (2) Any comment of the report in CarSmart (by the editors of Popular Mechanics?) where they test several popular "SUV" and conclude that the Discovery is an "unacceptable vehicle?" Note: There is a recent Wall Street Journal article about Charlton Heston's Voyage Through the Bible, a CD-ROM version of the bible (available next Christmas), where Heston traverses the Holy Land in a Land Rover. From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Tue Jan 3 00:28:47 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 00:28:47 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Alternator/warning light problem Anyone posting advice on my charging problem please post to the LRO Daily Digest or to me directly. I was not able to send this from home before I left at XMAS so posted it from my friend's site at "guild@sail.uwaterloo.ca (Paul D. Guild)". Just got back today, so have not had time to look at the Land Rover yet! Cheers and all the best for 95' From Jimmy Patrick Tue Jan 3 06:21:27 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 06:21:27 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: sacul (lucas backwards) Lucas is here. It seems that the lucas demons have been visiting several of us for the holidays. Sandy, its a shame you didn't catch him and shoot him while he was there. He made his way over here to England and my Land Rover. I think I have a short somewhere, but I can't figure it out. The battery charges enough if I drive it around a bit on a motorway or something. But if I drive at night, the lights start out ok and then slowly dim to blackness. If I don't drive at night and use the lights, the battery usually retains enough charge to start up again the next morning. I have a "new" refurbished alternator in there but I know better than to think that because a part is new, that means it is good. I think the place to start is with the little round switch that the key goes in and that has the switch around the outside for the running lamps and the original headlight switch. Sometimes when I turn off the key, the motor goes on running, not like dieseling on but like it was never switched off.... The headlamps are now on a separate switch. Can you put too much headlamp on a rover, I mean one that draws too much power for the alternator?? Maybe my battery is knackered and won't charge up, but I'd hate to get a new one and then run that one flat right away too. Is there a crank starter available for land-rovers as an option. Can anyone help me with a place to start. I am new to Land-Rovers and Lucas systems. It is negative-ground. Cheers, Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From "Peter C. Parsons" Tue Jan 3 08:49:38 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:49:38 -0700 From: "Peter C. Parsons" Subject: Re: Goodbye From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Jan 03 08:54:09 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 08:54:09 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Oil pressure problems... reply. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Oil pressure problems... reply. Greg Brown, While I'm not a mechanic by trade, I have done a lot of tinkering, and backyard stuff, and read a lot of technical information. Here are some possibilities in reference to your oil pressure problems. With (I forget exactly) around 40 psi at idle, that doesn't sound like a oil pump problem. When your pressure drops as the angle of your vehicle changes, it could be: 1.) Low oil level. (dip stick is not accurate?) 2.) the oil pick-up tube is too high inside the oil pan, therefore not "in" the oil at an angle. 3.) I've read about oil baffles within some oil pans, designed to keep a quantity of oil near the pick-up tube while the vehicle is at an angle, maybe yours are missing, or became dislodged??? If it were me, I'd first check the oil level. If the dipstick reads full, drain the oil and measure the quantity removed. If that's okay, I'd drop the pan and look for a loose pick-up tube, or.... ??? Anyone else have any suggestions? Dave Brown (I like your last name!) '94 Discovery (for sale. :( ) Phoenix AZ #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Ray Harder Tue Jan 3 10:00:00 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 10:00:00 -0600 (CST) From: Ray Harder Subject: working rovers We had an ugly bald cypress pine in the front yard of our house. It is a pine tree that sheds it's needles in the winter. For various reasons, we (read that: the wife) decided it had to go. About 40 feet tall. The problem is that there was a power line next to it and the thought of me cutting it down was kind of scary. Things can go wrong and I didn't want to reap those kind of consequences. OK, so the tree-trimmer said $400 to cut down the tree and haul it off. And $3 per inch to grind out the stump which would be another $100. "$500 worth of rover parts." I said to myself. Put it off for 3 weeks -- the subconsious mind was working, though. Son was home between semesters and we took it down: -- With the extension ladder, cut off all the branches up to about 20 feet and hauled them to the recycling depot. -- Hooked LULU's winch onto the tree at about the 25 ft. level. Put the Dick Cepek 20,000# strap onto the back and hooked it onto a tree that happened to be in a good location. LULU's winch is a Koenig crankshaft 8,000#. The hardest part is keeping the engine idling. -- Engaged the winch power and put the tree into a terrific bow. It could only come down one way. I climbed the ladder and cut it off at the 15 ft level while my son applied winch power whenever I nodded. The tree emitted a loud "crack" and down it came. We trimmed the branches and hauled them to the recycling depot. The trunk was cut into pieces and is being burned. OK, so I still need to dig down and cut out the stump, but that will happen when we get some warmer weather. Subtle (ok, direct) comments are being made to the wife repeatedly: -- you couldn't do that with a honda... -- I should get to spend the $500 on rover parts... -- you can trust your friends to help you out... -- you should have been there, you could learn to love LULU, too... Taking out the tree was a good idea. The house looks much better from the street. And, LULU looks much better from the house (because of her bad manners, she must stay out of the driveway and sleep in the street). --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From "Walter C. Swain" Tue Jan 3 08:58:07 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 08:58:07 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: sacul (lucas backwards) On or about January 3, Jimmy Patrick wrote: > Lucas is here. none --Snip-snip > Maybe my battery is knackered and won't charge up, but I'd hate to get a > new one and then run that one flat right away too. Is there a crank starter > available for land-rovers as an option. How old is the battery? On a recently purchased vehicle one might expect to find that an easily changed part like a battery is older than the one in the vehicle the seller chose to keep. This would be a prime candidate, based on my experience and your description of the symptoms. A decent garage should be able to to a quick check of the battery's condition under an induced load. They will probably do it for free in the hopes of selling you a new battery, so you may want to watch them throw the switch to simulate the load <8->). If it is the battery, it is an easy, if not cheap, solution to the problem. Good luck. Walter Swain Davis, CA, USA From MarcBowen@aol.com Tue Jan 3 14:25:09 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 14:25:09 -0500 From: MarcBowen@aol.com Subject: Suscribe please set me address up directly to : msb@ptech.com Thanks, Marc Bowen - own a Discovery From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Jan 03 14:19:18 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 14:19:18 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: This 'n' that Been away for a few days, so pardon the bandwidth if this is old hat... Chris wrote about reverse switches. This may be the one piece of LR original equipment that is "no longer supplied". An exact copy of this switch is not available at any North American supplier (I tried)...I got a used one from Bruce at British Rovers, and I think it was his last. ABP and RN sell switches, but they require modification/drilling to adapt them. The 4" amber lenses have gone the same way..."NLS". Get 'em from junkers, if you can find them at all. Erik wrote about rust removal. After spending many a hot, itchy weekend grinding the old polyester fiberglass of a mahogany sailboat hull, I'd suggest a 7" "Milwaukee" angle grinder, a fairly beefy tool. They make two models, one that turns at about 2,000 RPM and another that does 4,500. Your choice...4,500 RPM and about a bazillion 80 grit discs did it for me. (Ask Dixon about Bates and his roving grinder!) If the rust is 'tight' surface rust, not exfoliating variety, I'd suggest a wash with "Ospho" a chemical primer (phosphoric acid??) that converts iron oxide to the much less reactive iron phosphate. WRT the crash worthiness of a Rover... a 16 yr. old kid (second day driving) rear ended the Rover whilst sitting at a stop sign. He hit the (empty) spare tire carrier with the front corner of his mommie's Lincoln Continental. Busted out the grill, headlights, bent the fender and buckled the hood...about $1,500 damage...and this was 1975 dollars. On the Rover, the tire carrier ring was bent (flattened back out with a 3# hammer) and I pulled the bent door out with a comealong so you couldn't tell. The $350 insurance settlement paid the rent that month. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Tue Jan 03 13:00:17 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 95 13:00:17 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: ? Military L. Rovers available in the U.S.??? FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: ? Military L. Rovers available in the U.S.??? I heard a rumor about some military Land Rovers that may be available in the U.S. Can anyone confirm that or provide me with more information?? Thanks, Please reply dirrect to debrown@srp.gov Dave Brown - debrown@srp.gov - '94 L.R. Discovery (for sale) - Phoenix AZ USA #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Morgan Hannaford Tue Jan 3 12:38:59 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 12:38:59 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Ultimate Land Rover Movie "Gods" is a great flick, but I've been looking for the Ultimate Land Rover movie: Killer Force. This is a 1975 movie with Peter Fonda, Telly Savalas, and O.J. Simpson! This film is reported to have > a hundred Land Rovers in it. However, no video places in the East Bay (left coast) seem to have it (e.g. Blockbuster,Warehouse etc.). Is this movie so bad that even Berkeley video shops don't carry it? Does anyone have a source? "White Hunter, Black Heart" a movie about John Houston directing the "African Queen" film (starring Clint Eastwood) has a few Rovers in it. Ciao, Morgan H. From "Hui Ben " 3 95 Jan -0600 1915 Date: 3 Jan 95 15:30:02 -0600 From: "Hui Ben " Subject: RE: This 'n' that the amber and clear lenses can be bought. they are the same as the austin mini and any mini shop can get em for you. they come in either dual filament or single filament. you can try craigs auto in vancouver canada 604-461-7337 and tell him ben sent you.. i think he sell the set with the socket, bulbs, rubber weather seal, and chrome ring for about 40.00 each side canadian. From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 3 16:51:04 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 16:51:04 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: RE: This 'n' that On 3 Jan 1995, Hui Ben wrote: > the amber and clear lenses can be bought. they are the same as the austin > mini and any mini shop can get em for you. they come in either dual > filament or single filament. You sure this is the 4" amber found on the Series III Land Rover? That particular light as found on the Series III (NA spec) was never on the Austin Mini (sold in Canada until 1980, while US sales ceased in 1968) to my knowledge. (I have has a lot of Cdn Mini's) Rgds, From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Jan 03 17:00:35 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 17:00:35 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Alternator woes One of our northern members writes about problems with a Lucas alternator. You said you noticed it was "off charge" driving home....Is the battery OK? Alternators need a small voltage to "tickle" the field...without this excitation, it won't put out even if the engine is turning. So if the battery is well and truly dead, not just weak, and the vehicle is jumped to get it going, it won't charge once the jump is discontinued. Sometimes the alternator can be fooled by hooking a 6 volt lantern battery to the field wire with jumpers...this is a nifty trick if your marine engine/battery goes down. *----"Jeep may be famous,LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "Hui Ben " 3 95 Jan -0600 1916 Date: 3 Jan 95 16:43:26 -0600 From: "Hui Ben " Subject: RE: This 'n' that sorry i thought you were refering to the small glass ones.. _______________________________________________________________________________ /DDV=\/G=Hui\/S=Ben\/OU2=IL02M\/OU=ILBH\/P=MOT\/A=MOT\/C=US\/@email.corp.mot.com /DDT=RFC-822/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ Cc: /DDV=\/S=CXKS46A@prodigy.com\/OU2=SMTPGW\/OU=ILBA\/P=MOT\/A=MOT\/C=US\/@email.co rp.mot.com/DDT=RFC-822/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/; /S=land-rover-owner@stratus.com/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Tue Jan 3 15:31:40 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 15:31:40 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: RE: Land Rover carbs John Karlsson posted the following query to the British Cars list: >I find that parts for the original Solex carburetor (OOOPS! I >mean carburettor.) are no longer made, and after about a quarter [ truncated by lro-digester (was 23 lines)] > 2899) affect icing, since there seems to be no provision for > heating the carb? John, There are actually two ways to mount the two-barrel Weber carb, a full custom manifold and an adapter piece which allows mounting on the stock Land-Rover manifold. I believe both are made by Pierce manifolds in North California: Phone: 800-874-3728 or 408-842-6667 or fax to 408-842-6673 I suspect that Pierce's price may be lower than that of ABP and suggest that you give Pierce a call. I believe that British Pacific (800-554-4133) may also have a lower price than ABP. If you use the full Pierce manifold (undoubtedly the higher-performance set-up) you will lose the heat-riser connection to the exhaust manifold. So you might as well go with the headers and, as you say, eliminate the manifold cracking nemesis. Then, so I have read, to get the full performance potential from the set-up, you need to go to the cam-grind profile for the 2.5-liter Land-Rover four-cylinder engine. Improvement in performance? Yes. Worth it? Hard to say. Yes, you will have cold-starting and -running problems with this set-up, unless you build and install a heat-riser set-up (of sheetmetal) to capture sufficient heat from the headers and pass it to the manifold. It seems to me that another approach would be to modify the air cleaner set-up (in which, by the way, the Pierce kit normally replaces the oilbath with a K&N dry filter) to have an air pickup which incorporates a heat riser. Several cars that I have had have had such a pick-up and some have had summer and winter settings with a damper that you can move to determine whether the air is cold or hot. I believe one even had a thermostatically controlled damper and that would seem to be the ideal solution. Regarding the single-barrel Weber, it works O.K. but I am skeptical of the performance claims. I have run one and felt that I lost performance, slightly, compared with the Zenith carb which it replaced (on a 1970 Series IIa 88"). There has been considerable discussion on the Land-Rover-Owner discussion group (LRO@team.net) about both types of Webers. Some owners who have used the single-throat Weber have felt that it gave a performance increase. If you pursue one of these modifications, please keep us "posted" on the Land-Rover list (lro@team.net). If you are not a member of this excellent Land-Rover discussion group, I encourage you to join. You can e-mail me for further details, if you wish. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Jan 03 17:24:14 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 17:24:14 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Land Rover carbs In message <199501032331.PAA26129@pacific.pacific.net>you wrote: > John Karlsson posted the following query to the British Cars list: > IIa 88"). There has been considerable discussion on the Land-Rover-Owner [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > have used the single-throat Weber have felt that it gave a performance > increase. I have the Webber single barrel on my Rover. I also have run a Rochester carb. While my gas mileage increased when I moved to the Webber, it was at the cost of horsepower. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications Internation Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Tue Jan 3 18:15:46 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 18:15:46 -0800 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: land rover sadness... well, i had put all my tools and parts in the back of my rover the other day in preparation for doing a bunch of work... someone decided to relieve me of the lot. the thing that really gets me is that the parts will inevitably go to waste (at least someone will get the use of the huge sack of tools... but what thief is going to know what to do wit a bunch of rover parts)... sigh... -jory among the items stolen: ----------------------- new stuart warner oil pressure gauge with install kit custom fabricated sheet metal piece to cover aux gas tank filler tube oil pump rebuild kit (with sump gasket) head gasket new wipers new horn the used fuel pump i just bought from vance chin (i was going to rebuild it) oil filter new set of points new set of plugs 2 of the Castrol/LMA large bottles of brake fluid From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Jan 03 21:21:37 1995 Date: Tue, 03 Jan 1995 21:21:37 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Discovery & Religion > Note: There is a recent Wall Street Journal article about Charlton > Heston's > Voyage Through the Bible, a CD-ROM version of the bible (available next > Christmas), where Heston traverses the Holy Land in a Land Rover. none I've said a lot of words not mentioned in the Bible while traversing an un-holy swamp in a Land Rover... :) From Russell Burns Tue Jan 3 19:42:34 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 19:42:34 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 hardtop I made my trek to Vermont to obtain my Hardtop. With the help of Rovers North we got it installed without too much trouble. We also put in a back seat, which was more trouble than the top. Spent a few nights at a Bed, and breakfast and had a good time. (thanks Mike for the offer of the couch, and dog, but I took my wife instead) I guess we could offer low/no cost couch and dogs as a new fad.... The trip home was actually noisier than the soft top. The door seals whistled like mad at 70 mph with a 30 mph head wind. A little weather stripping on the window edges took care of that problem. I also am in the process of installing a headliner in the top. A trip the the local sporting goods shop, and four 3/8 in. closed cell foam pads later I have a headliner. I just glued the Foam to the roof with silicon glue as I may want to remove it sometime. The one item I did notice with the top is that the support bar for the soft top is removed. I reinstalled it under the foam headliner as I was getting some oil-canning from the wind. I will see how the roof likes the extra support. My only concern is that the support may pop out the alpine windows. Russ Burns From UncleBrad@aol.com Tue Jan 3 22:55:31 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 22:55:31 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: DownEast Rally For those of you who like to plan ahead... the DownEast VII is scheduled for July 1st & 2nd, 1995. Its free. It will actually be a Saturday, Sunday ,and Monday affair, the Monday activity being a flight in the world's only DC-3/C-47 on floats if enough people sign up. I don't know whether this part is free or not. The organizer is Myles Murphy and there is traditionally a very large turn-out. Lots of fun. You can call Myles Murphy at 207-789-5303 or write him at RR2 Box 22, Lincolnville, Maine, 04849 From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Tue Jan 3 20:39:56 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 20:39:56 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: smog update plus questions Howdy all, This is my latest smog update; most pertinent to those folks in California, but maybe interesting to others. Smog check #3 was a fail. Not by alot (50 ppm over, 550 not 500), but a fail. I think my insistence to keep coming back to the local guy finally resulted in his working on the rover abit. This meant I could pay him the $50 to cover the state limit and now be off to a state referee station. I have an appointment for Jan 17. Notes. I changed spark plugs to split fire plugs. I told the guy at Grand Auto (no groans please) the correct plug was a champion N5, taken from the brooklands reprint of the land rover manual. From that number, he translated to a splitfire SF40D. My smog guy back checked the splitfires, decided they were wrong, back decoded to champion and then in a last ditch attempt to lower HC, changed the splitfires for RN9YC (that's what is written on my bill). I wasn't going to argue. Can someone please confirm the correct plug for me and my beast, a euro 2.6? Are its plugs different from the NADA? GAP is .030 inches, right? Is the RN9YC acceptable or should I run out and get new N5's ? The splitfires were $6 each and didn't help me pass smog, so they are going back. Second, how do I set the timing on the beast-distributor vacuum advance off? What idle speed is best? I realize it's a little late to ask these questions, but I want to verify that I did things right. My smog guy didn't think much of the gasohol fuel idea and I didn't try it. Can someone tell me if the commericially available stuff (it is still available in CA, right?) is high enough EtOH to significantly lower emissions or would you definitely need to add ethanol or methanol? I work in a lab and have access to any and all organic chemicals. Do the pour things down the carb decarbonization treatments really work? Dave Place (? Ithink it was Dave, if not, my apologies to both Dave and the slighted individual) recommends hot water and a friend says diesel fuel works well. I am skeptical but open to testimonials. The reason I ask is the smog guy wrote on my paperwork that a potential cause of high emissions was carbon on the valves. This is really irrelevant as I have now spent the legal limit and will be ok for two years but on the off chance that decarbonizing the beast will improve valve seating and thus emissions, I may try it. Should any machine shop be able to work on the 2.6 head or will any work need to be done at some special place ie, rovers north? I am thinking that the future holds a rebuild to unlead gas specs. Not today but sometime. This is very long, I hope those not interested can skip to the next article. Thanks to everyone so far. bye john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and good ol reliable Mazda owner! From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Tue Jan 3 21:05:22 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 21:05:22 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: alternator/charging/ser 3 I seem to recall through various friends in the past w/series 3 charging problems that, after ripping everything out by the roots and tearing out great hunks `o hair in diagnosing the culprit, that it turned out to be the charging warning lamp itself! That this 2-bit part will actually open the circuit if the bulb has failed...! So check this out before you spend gazillions on the bigger bits... regards Jim roverheadus thrombosis scatterbrainum jpappa01@interserv.com From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Tue Jan 3 21:15:48 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 95 21:15:48 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: The 1995 Defender 90 We finally got in the first 1995 model year Def 90 at the dealership and there are some detail changes... some better, some ?? The first unit in is black. Black a regular production color for 95 (limited run of 100 of them for 1994), replacing Arles Blue! No more blue (for now). Local dealership still has some blues in stock - if anyone dying for blue, let me know... The 1995 looks terrific with the new Bestop full tilt. Fits tight. No more snaps. Clear windows! Although no more alpine lights... too bad. Yes, the rear lights ARE round now! Wow. Really strange, but probably the looks will grow on me eventually. I finally got used to the square ones from the 110 and `94 Def90. Not at all same round ones as on euro-spec cars. Same layout as square lights. Neat little door *map* pockets. S`pose this could be fitted to earlier models... Improved (anything would have been improvement) rear speakers in somewhat larger baffles. Different head unit is now *CD-ready* for optional CD changer-powered subwoofer unit. New A-frame front brush bar now readily avail. Large diameter tube used. That's about it. one *aluminum* conniston green hardtop in stock but its already gone. Methinks that the black Defender 90 with the grey fiberglass hardtop installed and star alloys would make quite the striking looking land rover! See ya! Jim roverheadus dumbstrukus infatuatum jpappa01@interserv.com From jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Tue Jan 3 21:33:21 1995 Date: Tue, 3 Jan 1995 21:33:21 -0800 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: The 1995 Defender 90 >Methinks that the black Defender 90 with the grey fiberglass hardtop installed >and star alloys would make quite the striking looking land rover! i saw one of this description recently (parks at a gym near my house). it was the first defender i've seen that made me consider getting rid of my own rover (if i had an extra $15K sitting around).... -jory From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jan 04 01:06:23 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 01:06:23 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: sacul (lucas backwards) Jimmy Patrick sez.... > Lucas is here. none ----snip--- > I think the place to start is with the little round switch that the key > goes in and that has the switch around the outside for the running lamps > and the original headlight switch. Sometimes when I turn off the key, the > motor goes on running, not like dieseling on but like it was never There was some discussion about something like this a while back. The keyswitch portion of the combined switch turns on/off battery voltage to the ignigtion, oil pressure light, charge light and a number of other circuits. Certainly, there may be a problem with the switch if you can't turn off the ignigtion. If the switch were to close *without* the key in the lock it would cause a battery drain BUT you would see the oil pressure and hopefully the charge lights on at the same time. Just like turning the key ON without starting the truck. > The headlamps are now on From William Caloccia Wed Jan 04 05:13:03 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 95 05:13:03 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded ------- Forwarded Message Date: 04 Jan 95 10:03:49 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Used Range Rover caveats? I gather you'll be buying your car in Texas, so I guess I can skip the part about where to look for rust and corrosion. One of our club members who makes a living with a non-licenced LR parts mail order business and also does some occasional used car dealings has these observations to make about used Range Rovers: The most frequent and costly damage in such vehicles are - sometimes substantial - damages in the drive train that can extend all the way from the front half-axle constant velocity bearings via propshaft joints to the gearbox itself, automatics being more susceptible than manuals. Diffs are rarely affected. There are three main reasons for such damages that can be found even in relatively new vehicles: Main cause is the wrong use (or abuse) of the central diff-lock. Range Rover owners, who are rarely off-roaders (would you believe), are notorious for hastely slamming into diff-lock as soon as it starts raining and the road gets a *bit* slippery, at freeway speeds, and they'll drive like this for hours. This habit obviously wreaks havoc on the drivetrain. Even off-road, unwise use of the diff-lock can be fatal. Given the brute power of the V8, if in 1st or 2nd low with a wide throttle opening and the diff locked, just one of the wheels is blocked for even for a second, the damage to the drivetrain is immediate. The next two causes are oil-related: RR-gearboxes, unlike those of the 'Series', *don't leak* and are sealed tight (incredible but true), _however_ they have and need two vents, one for the main box, the other for the transfer case. These are two thin plastic hoses that run from the top of the casings up front into the engine bay where they are suspended rather close to the exaust manifold. If by accident or negligence these vent hoses are torn out of their suspensions they will drop onto the manifold, melt and close up, the pressure in the gearboxes rises, and - pow! - out come the seals :-o , leading to oil loss. Rapid oil loss also occurs when the hand brake is adjusted too tight (a fault frequently perpetrated by garages), the RR is run with partially engaged hand brake (which you most likely won't notice with the power of the V8) and the hand brake drum becomes red hot to the extent that it melts down the rear transfer case seal. Since Range Rover owners, unlike the Series-folks, *never* crawl under their car regularly to check out the state of their 90-weight, such oil loss usually goes unnoticed, the vehicle is driven over extended periods with little or no oil in the gear box, and again the result is a severely damaged drivetrain. So, when you test drive a Range, close all windows, turn off radio, ventilation and air conditioning, and *listen*. In high ratio with disengaged diff-lock, the Range Rover gearbox should be absolutely silent. Any whining, rumbling or grinding is a warning sign. Next test, come to a stop, turn the steering to full lock, and drive off accelerating sharply. Does the car pull away smoothly, or do the front wheels behave irregularly like jumping or wobbling or making the steering wheel jerk? If so, there's something wound up in the front part of the drivetrain. Finally - this involves getting a bit dirty - get underneath, open the oil filler plugs of both main gearbox and transfer case and stick your finger in, feeling down into the casing. Your finger should come out all wet and shiny from clear red or amber - colored oil. If it comes out black and sticky - thanks. Also, don't forget to check the state of the brake pads; more likely than not they'll be completely down. Electronics: Usually no problem. Wish you luck... Stefan From Jimmy Patrick Wed Jan 4 10:10:18 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:10:18 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Re: sacul (lucas backwards) Mike, >Get the battery checked to begin with. Yes, you can get a hand-crank. Fits >through the hole in the bumper. Where can I get one of those cranks.... I'll start with the battery and then I will follow your advice. I can't remember if the oil lights were on or not after I threw the key switch. I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it is charging or not. The last time I drove it the meter was on -25 which is about as far as it can go from charging. The meter is a bit screwy though because sometimes it goes more positive when you turn on the dash light or the heater or... whatever, I would expect the meter to go more negative when you add more lights or whatever. It does have an alternator, not a dynamo. It may be some of the last bit you mentioned, about the elctrical genius rewiring the thing so as to confuse and befuddle me. AHHHHH Land-Rovers. I knew I wanted one of these for some reason. My co-workers believe it would make a great flower pot. Thanks for your help, Jimmy -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From hiner@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Greg Hiner) Wed Jan 4 10:06:57 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 10:06:57 -0600 From: hiner@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Greg Hiner) Subject: RoverWeb may need to move Though it is not final yet the RoverWeb may need to move to a new home. If somebody has got space I would be happy to ftp the whole set of files to them. Think about it and let me know if you are interested. The RoverWeb gets about 200 requests a day. It is running on a Macintosh right now. Best- Greg From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Jan 4 17:14:10 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 17:14:10 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Oil pressure problems... reply. On Tue, 3 Jan 1995 DEBROWN@SRP.GOV wrote: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics > PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 > SUBJECT: Oil pressure problems... reply. > Greg Brown, [snip] > With (I forget exactly) around 40 psi at idle, that doesn't sound like a > oil pump problem. When your pressure drops as the angle of your vehicle [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > the vehicle is at an angle, maybe yours are missing, or became > dislodged??? ad 3.: I had the pan of recently. There is a lateral plate inside with a hole to the rear where the pump tube is. But of course, it only withholds the oil if the oil is in the pan. (Yesterday my oil warning light went on when braking. I had brakelight trouble a couple of months ago and i thought i might have wired something wrong until i topped 2 l of oil. At least the warning light didn't flicker :-) ) > If it were me, I'd first check the oil level. If the dipstick reads > full, drain the oil and measure the quantity removed. If that's okay, > I'd drop the pan and look for a loose pick-up tube, or.... ??? > Anyone else have any suggestions? > "in" the oil at an angle. 3.) I've read about oil baffles within some Clean and check the pump/net/filter anyway. Wouldn't hurt. > Dave Brown (I like your last name!) '94 Discovery (for sale. :( ) Phoenix AZ > #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. > "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead sv/aurens velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From Russell Burns Wed Jan 4 8:25:47 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 8:25:47 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: D-90 hardtop > Headliner eh, did that also help with the noise? I get quite the echo off all > that fiberglass when the radio is on. none The real reason for the headliner is that on those 0 F days the fiberglass is real cold next to my thinning hair. I think it helps with the noise also. The dynomat I plastered all over the interior body helped tremdously. I also noted that none of the R-Rovers or Discover owners out east would wave back. Russ 94 D-90 91 RANGE ROVER (which goes off road) From Mike Fredette Wed Jan 04 08:44:12 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 08:44:12 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: D-90 hardtop Russ, The dynomat I plastered all over the interior body helped tremdously. I also noted that none of the R-Rovers or Discover owners out east would wave back. I did the same thing, dynomat inside the doors, 1/4 inch accumat under the floormats and under the entire rear bed liner, and 1 inch foil lined dynomat under the hood. It made a huge difference. Yea, those Range Rover/Disco folk, they tend to forget where thier roots are. That or they just plain don't know that they are driving decendants of greatness. Rgds Mike Fredette D90 90 Range Rover County (wifes) From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Wed Jan 04 12:43:05 1995 Date: Wed, 04 Jan 1995 12:43:05 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Jimmy's Charging problem Jimmy writes: none Where can I get one of those cranks.... none 1st look behind your seats towards the bottom. It may be there (if it is, don't feel bad. My neigbor thought his was missing until I pointed it out. If not any LR parts supplier would have them. none I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it is charging or not. The last time I drove it the meter was on -25 which is about as far as it can go from charging. ... It does have an alternator, not a dynamo. none BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA with ammeter in the instrument cluster (amps/fuel), it is located at the lower left hand corner of the instrument panel. If you have a later IIA where the ammeter is an add on it is located at the bottom of the instrument cluster (fuel/temp). If you have a III, it is located at the bottom of the instrument cluster (fuel/temp). All Land Rovers have a charging light. If it is burned out/missing, your alternator/generator will not charge. The light should come on when you turn the key to indicate all is well, then go out once the engine is started and running (and charging). I'm not certain, but you might try to undo the instrument cluster, pull that bulb, then see if you can match it with another bulb in the system. It may have a match and get you going. Good Luck Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com (Sorry, I couldn't post you direct-my mail package eats the addresses once they've gone through the LRO list) From S|ren Vels Christensen Wed Jan 4 18:39:48 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 18:39:48 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Jimmy's Charging problem [stuff snipped] On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, maloney wrote: > I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it > BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA [ truncated by lro-digester (was 18 lines)] > bulb, then see if you can match it with another bulb in the system. It may > have a match and get you going. Mr Lucas (or one of his deciples) precision manufactured the sIII charge light so that it will fall away from the panel back into the wirepit when hitting a class 3 hole in the city tarmac. If you find it in there, bend the little teeth a bit away from the bulb and reinsert it. You can only do this a few times before the teeth break. If you glue it on, the bulb will most definitely go shortly after. As far as i remember (HA!) the bulb is similar to the instrument back light. FWIW sv/aurens velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Wed Jan 4 14:43:12 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 95 14:43:12 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Paul D. Guild wrote about connecting his ind leed on his alternator to ground and having an intermittent warning light for the charging system and so on. Paul: page 84.4 of the Series III manual and similar sections in the IIA manual show that the ind warning light is wired from the white circut (ignition) to the small lead on the alternator. disconnecting half the circut will naturally cause the warning light to come on because the ground completes the circut, again see manual. The way the circut works is very elementary Watson. When the ignition is switched on the battery has more voltage than the small lead on the alternator co the filament in the bulb glows as the electrons pass to the altermator and ground. When the engine is started the voltage at the alternator exceeds that of the battery so the electrons on longer flow to where there is least resistance and the light goes out. If the alternator is not putting out power, then the electrons will continue to flow and the bulb will glow. More power from alternator than in battery bulb no glow. More power, or rather voltage in battery than being produced by alternator then bulb glows. Glad you got your LR and nice talking with you in Nov. Wonder if Andree managed to sell that 109 SW with the blown 6 cyl for 5K. R&D From "Kelly Minnick" Wed Jan 4 19:16:29 1995 Date: Wed, 4 Jan 1995 19:16:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Stuff! Hi folks. Just thought I would respond to a couple of comments. Guess I will just start in order. All the above charging issues are correct. To overcome the power rating of your alternator would require about 400 watts. Don't know about you, but most quartz lights are only about 60 watts each. There are off-road driving lights that are over 300 watts each... I don't remember if the voltage reg. rectifier is the standard diode type or a selinium (sp?) like the old dirt bikes, but a bank of diodes went out in my SAAB and caused 1/3 of the power to go away. (3 phases rectified to DC). Also, I have had windings short internal that cut out about 1/2 the magnet wire. The alternator still put out power, but little. This can easily be checked by a shop, also (usually for free!). Used RRovers. My US '87 had leaking power steering unit and leaking power steering pump. This is NOT uncommon from the early RRovers I looked at. I got a good deal 'cause this scared the owner. Most well to do Rover owners do not change their oil every 3000-3500. They take them in at their scheduled changes every 8000 miles - what a crock. Most of them are so gunked up in the valve covers/heads and all the breather passages. I have also seen plenty with front automatic trans seal leaks and trans cooler line leaks where the hard lines meet the rubber lines up front. Most of these things can be fixed easily, but take time. If people would use the right fluids... Everything else is build pretty tough! Cams, intakes, exhausts... I have the capability to degree cams. As I just got done re-building my '73, I bought a new stock 2.25L cam ($65). I degreed this. ABP talked me into a 2.5L high-lift, long duration much better cam for $175 (actually bought it from Craddocks for $120). Degreed this too. DON'T be fooled, people. If I hadn't done this, of course I would have more power after spending twice the money (wouldn't I?)... NO MORE duration and only .010" more lift on the exhaust lobe (barely noticible). Porting your head will give you more power, but loss on low-speed torque. Large intake valves do the same. We need high velocity at low speed and low air drag at high speed. Now comes the 2 barrel carb. The large throat Rochester works well at freeway, but gives up low speed grunt. My bud just bought a 2.5L from the UK that had a 24/28mm bolted to it. Don't know if this was stock. Works great except the cold weather thing. The K&N filter thing is great except out here in the desert where there is lots of very fine sand/dust. On long trips, my buds have to change their filters while I just keep running! No harm in opening up the exhaust system, though! Sorry about the stolen car parts - very bad. De-coking. have even seen guys dump ATF at high speed into their carbs. WE did tear the motor down later. Boy was it clean. Even unstuck his rings for a while. Any respectible shop can insert hardened seats and do a head job. Unless you've been swayed that only a Rover person can work on a Rover... Little hard to finish painting my rear box covered with 4" of snow! This is Southern California where we never get more than 4" of rain in a year! Later (sorry, can't paint the Rover, so I'm bored) Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From "T.F. Mills" Thu Jan 5 00:25:08 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 00:25:08 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: ruta maya? happy new year all! quick question: did LROI publish a piece on the Ruta Maya Disco Expedition? If so, would somebody kindly post full bibliographic details? (author, title of article, issue number, date, page numbers). Mucias gracias. to all who have sent me private messages: please hang on (but go ahead and breathe) -- I've got some catching up to do. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA --------------------- From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Jan 5 09:47:23 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:47:23 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Other movie trivia > year Rover is it in the movie. Is that particular rover Similarly, in Roxanne (the Steve Martin film) he as a 109 - is it an SII? Where was the film shot and who's was the 109? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do optimists find it full of disappointments. | it in the mud. From "Mr T.stevenson" Thu Jan 5 10:24:46 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 10:24:46 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: LR hand crank starter I thought I might add my twa penn'th regarding hand cranks for the Land Rover. You should be able to get one second hand from a LR scrappie; they normally part with them for less than a fiver. The other useful crank accessory you sometimes come across is a metal funnel which fits over the hand crank starter dog on the crankshaft pulley. This is particularly useful, since you can then engage the handle with the dog without scrabbling about under the vehicle. Good luck with your new vehicle & Happy New Year. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Jimmy Patrick Thu Jan 5 07:35:25 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 07:35:25 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: My charging problems (long) Bill, Thanks for your input. >1st look behind your seats towards the bottom. It may be there (if it is, >don't feel bad. My neigbor thought his was missing until I pointed it out. >If not any LR parts supplier would have them. I will take a look for it but I haven't seen it. I think I will need one until I get this sorted. But I'm sure she'll be afraid of the dark if I don't sort it out soon. This weekend will be my first real chance to sort it out. >>I don't have a charge light, though, I do have a meter that shows whether it >>is charging or not. >BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA >with ammeter in the instrument cluster (amps/fuel), it is located at the lower [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >(fuel/temp). If you have a III, it is located at the bottom of the instrument >cluster (fuel/temp). >All Land Rovers have a charging light. If it is burned out/missing, your >alternator/generator will not charge. The light should come on when you turn >the key to indicate all is well, then go out once the engine is started and >running (and charging). I lied. I lied. I do have a charge light. or at least a light that behaves like one. It is located right in the center of the dash. I have a 1960 Series II so I don't know if that is the correct location for it or not. I am still relying on the Haynes manual, and it doesn't show my dash. My light behaves like you mentioned above. Robert said: >The way the circut works is very elementary Watson. When >the ignition is switched on the battery has more voltage than [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] >from alternator than in battery bulb no glow. More power, >or rather voltage in battery than being produced by alternator >then bulb glows. So I assume that I should be charging. If me wires are set up correctly. Maybe my battery will not hold it. It is only about 3 months old, but... When I took it in to have it tested, they said it was too flat to test. I charged it up last night so maybe I can have it tested this weekend. People at work don't understand me, but I love my Land-Rover. Cheers. Thanks to all for the help. Jimmy I have two addresses: jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk or jimmyp@netcom.com -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Jimmy Patrick Thu Jan 5 09:22:35 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 09:22:35 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Weber 34ich Hi all. Is there a manual for the Weber 34 ich carb available? Where would I get one? (the manual that is) Maybe someone here in the UK has a spare manual or one I can look at??? Boy these newbies have all the questions don't they. Thanks in advance. Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk jimmyp@netcom.com -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From Mike Rooth Thu Jan 5 16:12:30 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 16:12:30 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Expansion! Just heard on the TV news.Land Rover have applied to Solihull Council for planning permission for a new factory,in addition to what they already have.The new plant is to build diesel engines. Cant keep a good one down! Cheers Mike Rooth From Brad Krohn Thu Jan 5 10:15:03 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 10:15:03 PST From: Brad Krohn Subject: Charging Problems and Land Rover sighting Text item: Text_1 I, too, have been having vexing charging and/or starting problems -- and noted that the Lucas troubleshooting guide specifically says that just because the "charging/ignition" light goes out does NOT mean the system is charging correctly. BTW, Land Rover sighted in the latest issue of PC Magazine. Big ad on Pages 242-243 for SuperBase, with an '88 perched looking down over some nasty terrain. ======================================================================= "ROVER? WHO DRIVES IT?" Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com "That would be telling." -The Prisoner '69 IIA 88" Bug-Eye ======================================================================= From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jan 5 13:17:12 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:17:12 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Eugene, OR Looking for a Zen Rover mechanic in Eugene, Oregon. Does anyone have suggestions? I just gave my '70 IIa with 1/3 million miles to my son at U of O. From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jan 5 13:14:25 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 13:14:25 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Help From Cliff Enz Thu Jan 5 18:25:33 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 18:25:33 -0500 (EST) From: Cliff Enz Subject: Land rover list Subscribe land rover Cliff Enz call me at (703) 519 - 0654 or E-mail me at cliffenz@dgs.dgsys.com I BUY HOUSES! I LOAN MONEY!! From Pierce Reid 05 95 Jan EST 1918 Date: 05 Jan 95 18:49:06 EST From: Pierce Reid Subject: Serial Number Decode? Howdy: Is anyone familiar with the serial number codes for Series 1 Land Rovers. My dad just bought a c. 1953 Series 1 fire engine to restore. Serial number is 111800065. That is the chassis number, not the engine number. Can anyone decode this? Does it mean anything? Thanks, R. P. Reid '62 IIa Military -- The Sgt Major. ** When I die I want to go quietly in ** my sleep like my grandfather -- not ** kicking and screaming like his passengers From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Jan 5 19:09:56 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 19:09:56 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: the bust Nigel had a 9am appointment yesterday at the local service station for his (slightly overdue) annual NYS inspection. Having spent a chunk of tuesday fixing the horn button and ye'Ol Lucas wipers (repaired a coil wrapping, cleaned brushes and armature, general lube), and the day before scraping rust and chunks of lightbulb out of rotted out sidelights (an oxymoron-they're neither), then tracking down and installing a replacement socket for the same, I , his humble servant, just wasn't in the mood for surprises. Afterall, *everything* worked.....main and dips, sidelights, indicators (self-cancelling, no less), brakelights, brakes even, horn. All the tie rod ends are new, got a fresh railco bushes and bearings in each swivel, a well-adjusted steering box, brake lines are fine, frame even better, fresh springs, shocks and tyres ok. What else could you want? (Thankfully, there's no emissions here yet, but it starts just south, towards NY, across the county line.) I awoke to the realization that there was one ailment that could drop the red flag....no emergency brake. It startled me a bit as I realized they'd be putting Nige up on the rack and they'd likely try the handbrake first thing as they drove him into the bay. It wouldn't work. It hadn't since mid summer. What can I say? I've gotten plenty used to parking against curbs, rocks, logs, mazdas, and never leaving Nigel alone where he can hurt himself, watching him for a bit when I do (STAY.STAYNige.Gooo-boy.) Never did trust that handbrake when it did work, anyway...... Tea in hand I ventured unto the frigid morning and pondered my circumstance. Nige is now my only means of transpo, Gretchen (the other car) having been declared a total after clashing with a right-laner on the shoulder as we negotiated a otherwise legal and safe left turn into a lot we never quite made it into (his fault, I collected, but am out the car nonetheless). Nige NEEDS to be legal as I need to get to work. He can do it. A last minute attempt with WD40 and relateds, an implement of destruction, and vigorous application of each proved fruitless. Time was clicking down...three minutes to go...if we missed out chance into the bay our whole day could be shot waiting...we went for it. Speeding down the road I passed my old school (K thru 8, class of '72) and it was open for one of the first days since the holidays. I smiled and drifted off briefly as I reflected on those long lost days in class, with snow in the forecast and a dusting on the playground, eyes cast out the window longing for the storm that could send us sledding. I snapped out of it as I spotted the Sherrif lean forward and lock the radar on my reading as he rounded the corner at me. Shit. I glanced down and saw the speedo drift past 40....in a "school zone 30"....and looked up in the rear view to see the cop hang a tight left into the school lot. Downshift, fly right past the service station we had the appointment at, then scope and plan for evasive manuevers. My best shot-a quick left behind the post office-was blocked by oncoming traffic, and by the time I made it to my next best I'd been spotted, and soon after dragged in for the kill. Somehow I just can't outrun cops the way I used to..... Wasn't long before the overdue inspection revealed itself, but that was the least of my problems, according to the Sherrif. "47 in a 30, in a school zone, and The Judge don't like that", he said, shrugging off the no inspection in understanding of my plea that all the local stations had been out of stickers throughout December. "A 3 pointer with a $125 fine." I began to wish I'd of stayed home to fix the handbrake. I pled and moaned about the inaccuracy of a 30 year old guage, 16" rims with high profile tyres, and gave the local boy story....."gheeze, they didn't have school so soon after the holidays when I went there"...I swallowed my pride, I sold my soul, I kissed his ass. He went back to car to look me up, nice calm doggie in the rear seat. I grabbed my mug 'o tea and went on back to chum up, being careful not to wake the mutt as he rested in the morning sun. The cop wrote me a ticket for the no inspection and let me slide on the speeding, and I never thought I'd be so happy to get a point-free $85 fine. For a moment I relished in the concept that if I'd gotten an inspection in December like I was supposed to do I'd have gotten the speeding ticket...but then I realized the obvious...I'd of still been in bed. The cop and his dog made it back to the service station before us. He was inside on the phone waiting to observe the interaction between myself and the owner. Did I have the appointment or had I lied when I said I did? (I had, afterall, virtually admitted to a failure to comply, in intent at least, when earlier disclosing I passed the station we had the appointment at in a vain attempt to get away.) Sure I did, but of course, nobody wrote it down. An uneasy few seconds later it became a "just give us about 15 minutes", soon after becoming a "why not come back in 30-45?" I went back home and had another cup of tea. Back at the station, I had to give the usual instructions for starting, lights, and horn. They pulled him in. "Got any emergency brake on this thing?" "Oh yeah, lemme show you....er...damned thing always freezes up in cold weather....it works, actually-just doesn't stay on....here, you hold it on and I'll go underneath with this implement and knock the ratchet into position". He wasn't buying it..."Gotta have an emergency brake to pass inspection....let's move on"... Nigel did just fine on all the other queries and in the course of the inspection we talked rovers, the place having serviced a few local ones recently, and Nigel got a chance to show off his Smith's shinburner to questions of "does it have heat-ah, doesn't need heat to pass inspection, but just curious" By then the guy was suitably impressed and pretended to have forgotten all about the handbrake. He slapped a shiny new sticker to the windshield and got his hefty tip. Much relieved yet humbled, I returned home to enjoy the day but just couldn't get comfortable until after dismantling, cleaning, and lubing the handbrake assembly. Works fine now. Had I done it earlier that morning I'd of saved 85 bucks. cheers all, rd/nigel From Steve Firth Fri Jan 6 01:36:37 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 01:36:37 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: subscribe subscribe ............................................................................. Firth Consulting Stephen Firth Support Services steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk CIS: 100023,3414 for Biotechnology From grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Thu Jan 5 18:02:19 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 95 18:02:19 PST From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: Vancouver LROwner I've been listening for a couple weeks now and it's time to show my face! I'm Gordon Rea from Vancouver, British Columbia,Canada. I'm a currently frustrated (yes I have a charging problem too !)owner of a very experianced '65 SIIa 88, Safari 2.25l (w overdrive). I've had this beast for 3 years now and I have to admit I like driving this thing more than I like working on it. The previous owner obviously had the same attitude. Most of the origional wiring has rotted away and has been patched together with short pieces of whatever wire was at hand. The generator was replaced by and altinator ( A Delco I think ). Both fuel tanks also leak ( I bought a third but it leaks also) and I lost the locking plate to my left front hub last weekend. But I'm still in love! ( however I sometimes miss the '64 Sunbeam Alpine I had to leave when this thing came into my life). Q: I have already broken and axle and destroyed a differential and was wondering if 16" wheels would put additional strain on the axel. Are 16" rims "stock" on 88s ? ( The LR had 15" when I bought it ) gord From "Walter C. Swain" Thu Jan 5 22:58:00 1995 Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 22:58:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Serial Number Decode? On January 5, Pierce Reid wrote: > Howdy: > Is anyone familiar with the serial number codes for Series 1 Land Rovers. My [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > 111800065. That is the chassis number, not the engine number. > Can anyone decode this? Does it mean anything? What is the wheelbase on this fire engine? Where did it come from? Is it RHD or LHD? What engine does it have in it now, and is it supposed to be original? Etc, etc? According to a list put together by James Taylor (not THAT James Taylor, the other one that writes about Land Rovers), in 1993, the 1118xxxxx number is supposed to be assigned to Land-Rovers built in 1958, which is a fair distance from c. 1953, except maybe on a geologic time scale. I'm not sure that I'd want to put too much of value on that, although #65 would make it a very early 1958 (maybe). Hopefully somebody out there will have more and better information on the numbering system. Meanwhile, how about some more info on this vintage beast? Walt Swain Davis, CA 1967 109 SW (on Saturday if all goes well) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Jan 06 02:24:59 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 02:24:59 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Weber 34ich Jimmy... You *might* be able to find a Haynes manual that covers Weber carbs... They also publish a very good manual for Land Rovers. The only address I have is: Haynes Publishing Group Sparkford Yeovil Sumerset England Good luck! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Jan 06 09:39:23 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 09:39:23 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: The Return of the Prince Bollocks! No sooner does someone mention alternator woes, than *mine* starts acting up! Puts out 13.8 volts for the first several minutes, then drops off to 12 or so...."could be short brushes...could be the regulator" said the auto electric shop. Oh well, at least I can't blame it on Nigel this time! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Jody Allan Willoughby Fri Jan 6 10:18:12 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:18:12 -0500 (EST) From: Jody Allan Willoughby Subject: fan belt what is the correct belt size (width&length) for my 1956 `86' side exhaust valve 2-litre engine jody willoughby From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Fri Jan 06 11:05:36 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 11:05:36 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: "A good day's work...." Jimmy Patrick wrote: >When I took it in to have it tested, they said it was too flat to test.... AHA! So *you're* to blame! ;-> No sooner does someone mention a malady than it spreads through the 'Net like a virus! I'll bet the flat battery is preventing the dynamo from charging. It doesn't really matter...both alternator and generator need some small excitation of the field to charge. If you can get it started (hand crank, jump start or pop the clutch) try my lantern battery trick - hook the positive 6 volt lead to the field wire and the neg terminal to the case...assuming of course that you are negative ground! In trying to remedy *my* alternator problem, I dismounted it last night and plugged the on-board trickle charger in to boost the battery which had dropped a bit in electrolyte specific gravity. I got inside and turned the key to bring the instruments (and especially the voltmeter) on-line to see if the charger was puttin' out. Then I noticed that the charge light was off...that was to be expected...the leads were swinging free at that point. Several articles (including one in the RN newsletter) have stated that if the indicator bulb is burned out, the alternator won't charge, as if the current is somehow flowing *from* the alternator *through* the bulb. Then it occurred to me, the necessary excitation voltage is flowing through the bulb on the way to the alternator, because once up to speed, alternators are self-exciting. Eureka! Maybe Lucas electrics *are* just common sense like Mike said! Then again.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From John Hong/C/HQ/3Com 5 95 Jan EDT 1921 Date: 5 Jan 95 21:23:46 EDT From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Subject: No Thanks, I like it this way. HA HA HA So I'm pulling outta my spot in the hardware store parking lot (after fulfilling my life long ambition to get 1/8 npt caps and plugs for my grease guns so I can carry the various hoses, fittings and bodies separately and not worry about getting grit in the grease!) and this guy cruising the lot says " Hey, you looking for some body work for your jeep..." Now I am nowhere near as sensitive to being called "Jeep" owner like a certain owsego-based list member is but the thought bubble "hmmm...should I give this guy a smart ass remark?" did flash up. Instead I said, "No thanks, I like it this way". Actually made my day! Some of you folks have seen my rover and I just sent New Year's photo cards of me and the one I love to Dixon, Grice (with club dues!) Pappas and Maloney (cause he is one funny guy - strange and haha) Photo actually made it look a little shiny (grrr) but you can see my greasy finger prints on the bottom edges of the body where I pull myself out from underneath. (yeah!) Anybody who wants to trade photos of rovers and self, email me (not the list) your SNAIL mail address. (john_hong@3mail.3com.com for the next month - jhong@haiku.com after that ) International addresses are particularly welcome! So I got an IBEX info packet a few weeks ago - I like the way these vehicles look - I wasn't really sure if the photos were of the just discontinued model or the new one - I'll check again. I second Jory's comment about the rear overhang on the short wheel base version - it looks like 2-3 inches! Rear tire and then the body goes straight up! I'm pretty sure I was quoted about 4-5 month delivery time from placement of order anybody else get a quote? This is kinda puts one of these out of the running for me because I need a 2nd rover kinda quick so I can frameup my '73 '88. If anybody knows of a reasonable reliable 109 (rough appearance is obviously not an issue, kind of a plus actually!) on the US left coast, I'd appreciate the lead! When I do the frameup, converting to coil springs would be nice...I don't mean for anyone to go into great detail answering these questions below but short "no way or yes or yes with a lot of work answers would be appreciated. To put a 88 body on a 90 frame: 1. How come you never see ads for 90 frames? 2. Can you reuse the diffs in the coil sprung axle housings? 3. Can you reuse the tranny and transfer case? 4. What is the best way to handle the length difference? Does it really look wierd? Does it affect wheel well clearance. Is there a width diff as well? Anybody use one of the '88 coil sprung conversion frames? Arrow services for instance? Does anyone have HP/torque stats for the Perkins 4-203 diesel? I've got stats for the 4-182. Can you assume this is a larger engine? What country is Perkins in? They seem to also have a popular marine diesel line. Is it just me or are there all of a sudden several ads for the GM 6.2 liter diesel in LRO. Anyone have any opinions on this engine? Price? John "Tdi? GM? Perkins?" Hong From Malcolm956@aol.com Fri Jan 6 13:21:19 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:21:19 -0500 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Subject: The electrical flower pot My '65 88" IIA came from the factory with a positive earth, but when one of the previous owners converted it to a GE Delco alternator, it became a negative ground. It turns out that when you ground the only wire to the back of the alternator, everything dies. I discovered this fact one very late one dark night, five miles from home on a deserted dirt road. The alternator bracket came loose and in trying to retighten it, I grounded the connection. Nothing. Anywhere. Well, the starter turned, but no lights, ignition or anything else. After a pleasant walk home I rousted my wife out of bed and we went back to tow the Beastie home. Fortunately it was very late and nobody saw it chained ignominiously to the rear bumper of the Oldsmobile. Next day I re-drew the manual's wiring diagram in order to show electrical circuits, rather than the geography of the wires. It turned out that the first item in the electrical line (other than the starter) is the ammeter and no electricity whatever went past it. Under the right conditions it appears that the ammeter can serve as an expensive fuse. I will replace it one day, but at the moment I have by-passed it. The ammeter connections are the push-on type and a conventional 15 to 20 amp, two prong fuse makes a great by-pass. If you remove the fuse and replace the leads on the ammeter, you have the world's greatest anti-theft device. My charge, oil and choke warning lights do not drop forward into the dash on Richter scale potholes, rather they fall aft, into the car. This makes them easier to replace. Currently the Beastie is running poorly as it badly wants new valves. However it runs well enough for the occasional trip to fetch firewood from my local friendly woodsman. In listing the various capacities of a SWB Land Rover, I would include that the back will comfortably hold one third of a cord of fire wood, without exceeding the height of the back front seat or lowering the tailgate. Until I get valves, my LR is a quasi-mobile-under-cover woodpile. "QUMUC?" Woodpile, flower pot, whatever, the Land Rover is truly versatile. Malcolm From Malcolm956@aol.com Fri Jan 6 13:20:58 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 13:20:58 -0500 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Subject: LRO wannabes It is interesting how many people ask about the advisability of owning a Land Rover. The answer is NO. When they ask that question, it brings to mind the old line that if you have to ask how much it costs to run a yacht you can't afford one. It is difficult to convey to a would-be owner the fact that the Land Rover has raised the usual natural perversity of inanimate objects from the mundane to an art form. F'rinstance: The gasket between the intake and exhaust manifolds blew. However, the Beastie ran OK and for quite a while I tolerated a low level of carbon monoxide poisoning. Eventually I tried tightening the nuts to see if that would cure the leak. That stripped the stud in the manifold. OK, time to do it right. Sent for new intake/exhaust and manifold gaskets. Taking everything apart was more of a chore than anticipated as, strange but true, the intake manifold was pinched between the outer parts of the exhaust manifold. A tap was run into various stud holes, new studs used as required and the whole thing put back together. I fired it up and it ran quietly. A sewing machine came to mind. What, you ask, is so perverse about that? With some things still left undone (neither the hood prop nor the air cleaner were hooked up) I thought I would give it a quick run to see if the Beastie appreciated my efforts. Ran good. Pop the hood, tighten everything up - but wait - the hood latch won't work. Well, that required about two hours of farting around, loosening, tightening, lubricating, swearing. When the latch finally decided that my patience was wearing thin, it decided to work again. Like new. Never did figure if anything I did helped it. Like I say, an art form. From Jon Humphrey Fri Jan 6 14:21:38 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 14:21:38 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: The Return of the Prince Sandy, As I asscend my hill every night and I watch the headlights flicker and dance their paultry beams upon the new fallen snow, I am reminded of "HIS" presence. I know he lurks just outside the capabilities of my meager eyesight. But I know "HE" is there. Sleep, Sleep, sweet Prince, as soon the sun shall rise from the East, and I can move about this planet in less mortal fear than during the hours of the mystical darkness. Off to say me prayers Hope it ain't contagious Jon From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Jan 06 19:56:06 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 1995 19:56:06 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Bezels & BS In the past while thumbing through Land Rover books and photo albums of rallys past, I've noticed that certain IIAs had a more businesslike (and more attrative to myself) look about them, but I couldn't put my finger on what it was until now. On page 156 of the December LRO there is an article about a IIA Carawagon. It has some good detail photos of the front end (headlamps in the breakfast) and shows FLUSH headlamp bezels. THAT was what looked so neat! I looked it up in the IIA parts book and they are listed only for the European Rovers. I think it looks neater than with the chrome bezels sticking out, but I have a question for anyone who has had experience with the flush assemblies or both flush and sticking out. It seems from the parts book that there is no headlamp bucket with this installation, does this lead to problems with the back of the lamp exposed? Will this fit directly into a later US IIA with buckets and lamps that stick out? Are there any disadvantages aside from slightly restricted lighting with these assemblies? On another note, I just got the latest Harbor Freight tool catalog, and Mike Lokodice was looking for an engine stand. They have on sale: PN Part Price 04060-1CDB 750lb Engine stand $39.99 03163-5CDA 600lb Hand truck $34.99 05937-3CDA 2" X 20' 18,000lb Nylon tow strap $14.99 30532-2CDA Blitz 5 Gal Jerry can $19.99 30533-1CDA Metal Jerry can holder $ 9.99 04842-0CDC Air Impact Hammer $12.99 05917-3CDA Standard Brushes $ 2.49 The tow strap I got for Christmas to replace the one I broke attempting to recover Ben Smith's 88 from what Dixon referrs to as "a mud puddle":-). The impact hammer is the best thing since sliced bread in terms of removing stuck exhaust systems, and the Standard brushes are 3 wire toothbrushes- probably the most used items in my tool box- absolutely indespensible. Their number is 1-800-423-2567 or 805-444-3353, and if the total of your order is $50 or more, the shipping (US) is free. Mike, The stand and a new tow strap would get you over the $50 min. The hand truck would come in handy too to horse your block around (or to horse your SO out the door :-). Enough baloney for now maloney@wings.attmail.com From William Caloccia Fri Jan 06 21:17:53 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 21:17:53 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded message For quicker delivery, check that the To: address of your reply is lro@team.net or land-rover-owner@team.net messages sent to other addresses (*-owner or *-request) may experience an unpredictable delay. ------- Forwarded Message From William Caloccia Fri Jan 06 21:23:44 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 21:23:44 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded message ------- Forwarded Message From William Caloccia Fri Jan 06 21:32:09 1995 Date: Fri, 06 Jan 95 21:32:09 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: forwarded message ------- Forwarded Message From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Jan 6 22:16:34 1995 Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 22:16:34 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Yakima.revisited Sorry folks, I think this is an oldie...I saw it once, but now that it's come up again I got a burning question... >>>Begin clip >>I bought myself a Yakima adapter for bolting the rack to the tropical roof. I know I could easily remove the sunsheet but would rather keep it. ...... Any ideas? anyone done it?<< Well I have a Yakima rack for my 72 88' with a tropical roof. The main problem I had was getting towers tall enough (and vertical) enough to clear the sheet metal on the sides. From the gutter, you need nine vertical inches with almost no inward lean. I purchased "tower extensions" from Atlantic-British. These are essentially just aluminum spacers which fit between the gutter brackets and the cross-bar attachment. The rack now clears (barely) the tropical roof. With the canoe and two bicycles mounted and a severe head wind on a rough road the rack DOES contact the aluminum. Not ideal but certainly workable. I visited the Yakima works in Arcata California a few years ago a demonstrated the problems with Land Rover hard tops. They were intrigued but seemed disinclined to address "such a limited market". >>>end Clip I also have a Yakima rack. I think it is the IA with tower extensions, BUT it contacts the sides of the top (regular hardtop, no heatshield) no matter what I do. Were the tower extensions you got at AB maFrom LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Jan 07 14:35:27 1995 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 14:35:27 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Bezels & BS Maloney ponders bezels... > that there is no headlamp bucket with this installation, does this > lead to problems with the back of the lamp exposed? Will this fit [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > there any disadvantages aside from slightly restricted lighting with > these assemblies? Sticking out?? exposed??? could have a lot of fun with this, Bill... Don't think the "exposed" wiring shoild be much of a problem since it is up high in front of the radiator. Depends on how much muck you go through. Do you know if these assemblies mount in the same holes??? > On another note, I just got the latest Harbor Freight tool catalog, and > Mike Lokodice was looking for an engine stand. They have on sale: > directly into a later US IIA with buckets and lamps that stick out? Are Thanks, Bill.. Once I catch up from Christmas, I might order one. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From John Brabyn Sat Jan 7 11:46:47 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 11:46:47 -0800 (PST) From: John Brabyn Subject: Re: D-90 hardtop On Wed, 4 Jan 1995, Mike Fredette wrote: > Yea, those Range Rover/Disco folk, they tend to forget where thier roots > are. That or they just plain don't know that they are driving decendants of > greatness. They ARE driving greatness -- as well as descendents of greatness!! I guess it's true most of them don't recognize their ancestors, however! Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From "Kelly Minnick" Sat Jan 7 18:16:49 1995 Date: Sat, 7 Jan 1995 18:16:49 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Which one? RE: What to buy? Looking for either a '89-'91 RR or '94 Disco. Which would be better to own? The used Disco's are still pretty $$$ (about $33K for a 'D' with 3.5K - 9K miles). A RR is about $16K to $24K. Have a family of 4 (two boys 10 & 11) and go out 4WD just about every week-end (except when I do total frame-ups). Rear door Vs tail gates... ABS, alarm, external spare... Unsure... I have owened a '87 RR. Loved it. Situation forced sale...(sadly). What about it Disco owners??? Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari (almost - need good weather to paint back 1/2) Ridgecrest, CA From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 07 95 Jan EST 1921 Date: 07 Jan 95 21:28:48 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: recent digest's previously I have routed my wanderings on the delights of lr ownership to the digest via Bill C. as a novice computer player I am still hesitant with the black box. herewith a few snippets arising from the last 2 or 3 digests:- John Hong writes about 88 bodies on 90 chassis, etc there are now several sources of 90 chassis in the U.K. some legitimate and some illegitemate. the Arrow sevices chassis is made about 30 miles from where I lived until about 3 months ago when I fled the shores of Landroverville to live in sunny NY. they are quite well made and relatively simple to use in modifying a leafsprung motor to coil, of course you need all the other parts as well, take care in buying them in single items, it works out expensive , better to buy a RR rolling chassis for around 3 or 400 pounds ( 450 to 600 $) more expensive if you want the 3.54 differentials which fetch 150 $ in the UK. the 88 rear body is shorter than the 88, s/h prices in the UK for a 90 body are around 600$. of course thetops are also shorter, the differentials in 88's and 90's are interchangable but the ratio's are different ser 2 and 3's have 4.7 to 1 ratio. the diff's from 90's ,RR's and 110 fronts are also interchangable but 3.54 ratio. which is too high for a 2.25 with normal 4 speed gearbox. whilst on the subject of diff's Gordon Rea asks about wheel sizes and diff damage. The differential in the lr was first used in a rover car in the late forties, the first lr's had engine power of less than 50hp. over the years the power has been boosted to 77 hp for a 2.25 petrol and the weight has increased significantly, consequently the diff and the half shafts are not really strong enough for the application, even on motors which are well looked after stress fatigue will eventually break the parts. the uk lr's are issued as standard with 16 wheels and tyres, the swb with 6.00 or 6.50 tyres and the 109 with the larger 7.50 tyres these are around 33 in diameter and nort recommended by lr for fitment to a 88 because of the bodyy clearance, however the use of 7.50 tyres is common, particularly for offroading where the ground clearance is needed. the tyre dia is more important the the wheel dia for the loading of the transmission. aggressive tread tyres also load up thesystem in addition to increasing the fuel consumption and are thereforee to be avoided for normal road use. chassis number 111800065 is a 1958 UK rhd 88 wheel base petrol. a 1953 model would have a serial number 36100001, the figure 3 rep. 1953, the style which was used up till 1955. it is easy to check whether the number is appropriate since a 53 would have an 80 " wheelbase. series 2A's were fitted with flush headlight mounting in the years 67 and 68, immediately before the lights were moved into the wings in 1969. The complete front panel would need to be changed to fit this type of light, this change heralded the fitting of sealed beam units instead of the older type with separate bulbs, the military kept the old style. the charging saga. a 1960 lr would have been fitted with a positive earth system and a dynamo. Max output of around 20 amps. the ammeter fitted as standard would be rated for and wired to this system. an alternator will easily put out 40 amps, some much higher. the std ammeter will not tolerate this output and usually melts down. another word of warning, many alternators have a small drive pulley which results in high speed and a low belt wrap angle, thus making belt slip very easy under load. Bill Leacock limey in exile. 1967 109 ex military and approx 100 toy lr,s and 40 RR's From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Jan 8 03:17:23 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 03:17:23 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Mail Hosts Changed Hi Folks, Due to some changes forecast for the primary mail server, the whole of the Land Rover Owner mailing list and digest has been re-home to originate from the host which is doing the digesting - Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com. Thus, all your messages will pass through the UK (then back to the states, then...) A positive side effect is that now Majordomo knows about both lists and can deal with them (however Majordomo won't add anyone to the real-time list, he can do deletes and other commands). >>>> lists Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com serves the following lists: lro-digest Land Rover Owner Digest Mailing List (<- this one!) land-rover-owner Land Rover Owner (real-time,restricted admission) graflex Graphic and Graflex Camera FAQ (Do-> index graflex) Use the 'info ' command to get more information about a specific list. Those of you who get one mailing a day, refer to the list as 'lro-digest' when talking to Majordomo, while the real-time folks would ask Majordomo about 'land-rover-owner' At the present time everybody should still send contributions to 'land-rover-owner@team.net' or 'lro@team.net', just as before. This will be moved from transfer.stratus.com to chunnel.uk.stratus.com in a couple days, but hopefully that shouldn't affect anyone. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From "Kathryn Krages [remote]" Sat Jan 07 22:46:20 1995 Date: Sat, 07 Jan 1995 22:46:20 -0800 From: "Kathryn Krages [remote]" Subject: Looking for Floorboard Seals for '57 LR 88 My husband Bert has a '57 Land Rover 88 that he is restoring (it's only been 16 months so far). He is looking for floorboard seals for the brake and clutch pedals. He has tried the usual Land Rover suppliers in the US (like Rovers North, British Atlantic, etc.) but they don't carry them. Any suggestions on where he can find those? A Land Rover person here in Portland suggested he could obtain the seals from John Craddock in the UK but Bert doesn't know how he would place an order with them. Any information on how to do that? Thanks for the help. --Kathryn Krages krages@ohsu.edu From "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jan EST 1902 Date: 08 Jan 95 02:28:35 EST From: "Alan M. Murphy" <74243.1133@compuserve.com> Subject: Hello? Anyone there? I heard about this address on a BBS in Seattle, but I'm not sure what the format is. I'm a LR owner ('69 88 II-A), and am interested in sources and encouragement in making mine a more "mobile" auto! Let me know how to further get in touch. Thank you, Alan Murphy From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sun Jan 08 03:23:37 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 03:23:37 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Looking for Floorboard Seals for '57 Kathryn... ONLY 16 months!! :) How much of this has been on the kitchen table?? OK... easy to get in touch with Craddock or any other supplier in the UK. Just pick up the phone and dial! Keep in mind the time differance between the US and the UK. You probably may want to call when it's morning in the UK otherwise the lines may be busy. A good alternative is to fax a request... quite a bit cheaper too. I prefer to fax since I can fax out from my PC at home. Phone numbers... (remember to add the country code -044- before the phone number...) I've included a few others... John Craddock - voice 0543 577207 or 0543 505408 fax 0543 504818 A.E.W.Paddock - voice 0629 584499 fax 0629 584498 Merseyside - voice 0514 868363 or 0514 860066 fax 0514 865986 You can pay with plastic.. Usually Visa or M/C, maybe American Express. You're billed in British pounds but the credit card company converts that to US dollars.. hopefully at a good rate! They will generally ship by air which isn't *too* expensive for light items and only takes about a week. Surface shipments are a little less expensive but take a lot longer. Some suppliers may send you a catalog on request.. Good luck with it Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 08 95 Jan EST 1909 Date: 08 Jan 95 09:07:04 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: info Alan asks about auto conversions. Ian Ashcroft tel 011 44 582 76101 does a transfer box conversion which makes the gearbox change for auto simpler headlight bezels, the flush type is designed to use with sealed beam units on which the steel rims fit directly to the panel, steel bowls are not used since the rear is protected ! by the rad. wiring is clipped to the underside of the top plate and is also protected. the panels are interchangable , but the light units are not. the flush type have a smaller hole and holes to suit the light unit. an enthusiast could modify the old type by welding in an adapter plate, regards Bill Leacock. 67 109. limey in exile. From Jimmy Patrick Sun Jan 8 16:36:16 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 16:36:16 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Whoa! I'm not worthy! Maloney, I am not worthy. A while back when I started this whole electrical problem, situation, virus, you said: >BINGO!!! Actually, you do have a charging light. If you have an early IIA >with ammeter in the instrument cluster (amps/fuel), it is located at the lower [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] >the key to indicate all is well, then go out once the engine is started and >running (and charging). And then I said something like "I lied. I lied, I DO have a charging lamp." Well, I did not have a charging lamp and thus there was no "tickle" for the alternator to begin charging. You called the problem sight unseen with your first guess. Wow. Now I have rigged up a charging light and banished the evil prince to "1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA." Sorry about that Sandy. Now the question is, should I unleash another problem on to the net. If I bring it up will everyone else come down with the same problem?? Oh heck. Here goes. When I turn off the ignition switch, the motor wants to continue to go. I guess the LR is so happy to be working that it never wants to stop again (don't I wish). So at first I thought it might be part of the electrical problem, i.e. some kind of short in the switch. But it appears that the switch works, the ammeter goes flat and the charging light goes (stays) out. But the engine keeps on running. Also I got the Haynes manual on the weber carbs that said it covered the ICH but it turns out to cover the 32ich. Is this carb similar to the 34ich?? Sandy, If you don't let your Land-Rover read the digest, it won't get any bad ideas about imitating my Land-Rover. Keep all digests away from the prying eyes. Thanks to all for the help with the electrical problems. Oh, yeah. I had to join the AA at the roadside because she decided to die on the shoulder last night. At least she died right by an SOS box. The mechanic was great and helped me rig up an alternator tickler just until I got home to put in a lamp. We have had polls on names of land-rovers, names of the list, celebrity rovers, movies with rovers, etc. Here is the question i would like to ask: Was your LR's Previous Owner an idiot? Sorry to go on and on and on. Cheers, Jimmy jimmyp@netcom.com jimmyp@cksp.demon.co.uk -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From rmodica@east.pima.edu Sun Jan 08 14:37:13 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 14:37:13 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: Used Disco vrs RR Kelly wants input about used a Disco, so here's some. I bought a new 94 Disco 5 spd in June for just over $32K including tax and AZ license, but no options. Can't understand why a used Disco is running $33K+ in CA. Is that due to local taxes? So far (about 7300 miles) here's a status report. I got it 16 June and after 500 breakin miles went up to Colorado for several weeks. Did some pretty rough driving out on slick rock and sandy terrain above the Colorado National Monument near Grand Junction and was VERY impressed. The Disco has great stability, super articulation, very impressive turning radius, great vision. Also went over Engineer Pass at 12,800 from Lake City to Ouray (RE: LRO Nov 94 pp. 178-181). That was a piece of cake in the Disco. All the other vehicles on the road were Japanese imitations or SWB Jeeps -- and they were all groaning in low 4WD. We rode in comfort with a radio and no dust and still in high range. The ABS really came in handy on the steep and loose descent into Ouray. I could feel them cycling on and off most of the way down. The other guy with me was in a 92 Pathfinder and had to use low range and was skidding. Did see a red RR part way up from Ouray, but was busy watching the curves and didn't get to stop. That was 31 July -- anyone out there remember the day? Problems during the first 7300 miles have been minor. The exhaust manifold to tailpipe nuts fell off from both sides after the first 4W shakedown. Made the Disco sound like a dragster -- very throaty. Made people turn their heads for sure. Fixed the exhaust with standard 8mm X 1.25 thread nuts from a local G>J> fasterner supplier for $1.50. LRNA told me they have had a similar problem with 110s but haven't heard from Disco owners. Anyone else? The electronic key is weak and bogus. Doesn't respond unless you approach from the driver's side and get about 10' away. The door locks in gerneral are badly designed for urban life. Unlock the driver's door and ALL doors unlock. Lock it with the electronic key and the metal key sets off the alarm. No way to lock the dopor from the inside except to reach behind you a push down the button. Pulling up the button to unlock from the inside is also a pain.But this is just a list of trifles. The Disco is one VERY IMPRESSIVE machine. It lacks the style, charisma, and personality of my 109" BUT, it has superlative amennities like a real radio, wipers that REALLY wipe, outstanding heater and air conditioning (same system that goes in the Lexus the service manager at the dealer said), ABS, more power than you can believe for a Land Rover, and great comfort -- but it still isn't my 109. Mileage isn't too bad either. Around town -- if you don't use all 182hp -- you can expect around 13.5mpg (US). On the highway I got 17.7 from Silver City NM to Tucson AZ on the Interstate at 75MPH with the air conditioning going full blast (it was 105 degrees outside). The rear seats are situated higher than the front seats so your boys will be able to see everything. The 60/40 rear seat is great for luggage. RE: license plate names. Some of my friends call my 109 "DOG" because a lot of people have a dog named Rover, but few people have a Rover named Dog. Rob 51 SI 80" 16136629 60 SII 109 164000620 94 Disco 5spd used to own 67 SIIA 88" 24420297B Anyone seen it? From Joseph Broach Sun Jan 08 17:21:29 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 95 17:21:29 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: points,anyone? My '67 IIa was equipped by the previous owner with an Allison electronic ignition system from Crane Cams Inc. All of a sudden, it has begun to cause problems. First regardless of mixture, the plugs were fouling. Then last weekend, after driving flawlessly the previous day, the landy wouldn't climb the driveway. The #1 plug was not even firing. I switched plugs to no avail. Wires, coil, cap, and plugs are new. Nothing obvious is wrong with the system after checking it thoroughly today. Allison will replace all the parts it takes to get it running, but I am seriously considering ripping it out and reverting back to the original system, points and all. Any suggestions on the problem or the swicth would be most appreciated. Rgds, Joseph From Andrew Steele Sun Jan 08 19:02:09 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 1995 19:02:09 -0500 From: Andrew Steele Subject: repost 88 RRinfo? Sorry to ask, but could someone please forward to me the posting about what to look for when buying a 88 Range Rover. I deleted all of last weeks notes; today my Uncle just called and said he's going to look at one for sale in Columbus, OH. Somewhat under $10,000. please send to: ad158@dayton.wright.edu On a diferent note, in Tom Sheppard's book, "The Land Rover Experience" I got to looking at a close up photo of a coil sprung and air suspension on a RR. (Page 144-145). It would appear to me that the physical installation is almost identical, electronics excluded. As such, has anyone given thought to, or already completed, a switch from coils to air suspension w/ manual controls to avoid the complexity of the electronic "brain"? Just a thought. For those people considering rebuilds and coil installations, why not just skip right on up to air suppension? Waiting for enough snow to be worth while --- only 1" yet this year.. However an alley one street down is all ice on a decent grade, but other than 10 minutes of play; not altogether satisfying. Oh well Andrew Dayton, OH ** looking for a diesel 109 or 110 (if any exist in the US) ** \ From Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Sun Jan 8 19:46:03 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 19:46:03 -0500 From: Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Footwells replaced--at last! Seems like I've been working on it for weeks...really about three...but the footwells, doorposts, and mudshields on both sides of my SIIA are now new. I can no longer watch the front wheels turn while driving and don't have to wear boots during a heavy rain. Thanks to all the people on the digest who talked me through this. ...now a few more questions: After bleeding the brakes (total flushing was required since I had to remove the master cylinder and brake servo, not to mention that I took the reciprocating saw through the left front brake line while cutting out old metal) I went out for a test drive. During a panic stop the right front brake locked up and the vehicle dramatically veered to the right. I returned to the garage and rebled the left front brake. Back out on the street the same thing happened, plus a regular pulsing sound coming from the right front under normal braking. Is this something that I can correct with the brake adjusters? The brakes worked fine before I removed the master cylinder and replaced the line. Clutch question. Again after bleeding the slave cylinder...actually replacing all the fluid (by the way I worked for half an hour trying to reach that bleed nipple from under the car. Imagine my delight in finding the access cover in the floor)..anyway, on the test drive there was a lot of squeeling in all four gears. Is this the sign of a bad clutch plate, bearing or what? Chris Stevens BCG Corporate Communications Towson, Maryland (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) Chrisste@cerf.net R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, because +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 4 L '69 S.IIa 88" From William Caloccia Sun Jan 08 21:13:09 1995 Date: Sun, 08 Jan 95 21:13:09 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Re: repost 88 RRinfo? > Sorry to ask, but could someone please forward to me the posting about what You can looke in the recent postings by sending a request to majordomo@chunnel.uk.stratus.com do a index lro-digest and it will respond with a bunch of 6 digit file names like 941231 and 941231.toc where the first file is the messages (from the digest) and the second is just the table of contents for that digest. then you send another message to him with get lro-digest 941230.toc get lro-digest 941231.toc get lro-digest 940101.toc get lro-digest 940102.toc And he'll send you the table of contents or whatever files you ask for (that are in the index). FAQs are also availble at that address. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Sun Jan 8 18:27:12 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 18:27:12 -0800 From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Subject: Re: Whoa! I'm not worthy! >When I turn off the ignition switch, the motor wants to continue to go. I >guess the LR is so happy tFrom "Kelly Minnick" Sun Jan 8 23:51:19 1995 Date: Sun, 8 Jan 1995 23:51:19 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Re: Which one? RE: RR Vs Disco Does the '89 RR have the 'hidden' door hinges? Isn't there a lot of body sway on a non-sway bar RR Vs the Disco? I know my '87 leaned a lot, but I just got use to it. Never seemed to be a problem. What about the 5sp versus the Automatic trans?? Is the 5sp better off-road? (maybe the auto is) I know I got lazy with my RR and sometimes wished my sIII had the same drive train (doesn't leak as much oil!). Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Jan 9 08:32:22 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 08:32:22 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Lucas alternators and all that stuff! Well, XMAS has come and gone, and a bright New Year is upon us. After letting the Rover rest peacefully, because of the alternator/warning light problem. I took the alternator back to the folks that fixed it, and wouldn't you just know it, there was a * little wire broken * inside of it. Put the alternator back on, turned on the switch and there it was a little red glow on the dash. Warning light back on, alternator charging, everyone is happy again. I have been following the discussion concerning charging problems, and have really enjoyed it. Especially liked 'the electrical flower pot' by Malcolm. Kudo's to everyone who posted advice on charging problems. There was a fellow back in December that had mentioned replacing his window channels with * stainless steel * tracks. Would like to hear more about this, if he could get in touch with me by Email or repost to the digest. Am a great fan of metal that does not rust or corrode. Have replaced most of the body fasteners on my Rover with stainless steel fasteners. Sure makes removing the front fenders to work on the engine, a very simple task. I also have been following the discussion on Weber carbs, I have a single barrel on mine, and have found it to be relatively trouble free. The only problem is icing up if the temperature is just around freezing. Would like more info on how to make a manifold stove around the base of the carb. Cheers! Richard From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 9 07:50:43 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 07:50:43 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Misc. tots Some misc stuff... I turned to ch. 36 in San Jose tonight to record Silicon Valley Business and caught the tail end of a movie with what was definitely a lightweight 88". Dunno what movie it was (I had the CD player going), but I'll check and make sure it's on the list. The magazine Trailer Life features the Disco prominently on the cover as part of its SUV round-up. I dunno, but it seems to me like an SUV is an awful lot to haul around on the back of a motorhome. What ever happened to the electric tow vehicle someone was working on? There was a moving truck parked outside the building I'm working in t'other day, and as I was walking past, I noticed something out of the corner of my eye that didn't register until later. Like most truckers, this one had a CB, but the mike was not mounted on a fixed mount, but rather it seemed to be hanging from a string -- perhaps bungee cord. Which sounds like a great idea to me. That way, your mike is out of the way, but when you want to talk, just reach up and grab it -- no fumbling with some silly clip. When you're done, just let go. I'm not sure Bungee cord would be the best, but I'm gonna look into it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Bill Yerazunis Mon Jan 9 10:56:34 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:56:34 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: 94 Discovery I also have a 94 Discovery, and yup, it dripped the exhaust manifold-to- pipe nuts at about 12Kmiles. I replaced 'em with stainless-steel M6 nuts and that's held. The front passenger doorlatch also came unscrewed at around 20Kmiles; that was an easy fix with a big allen wrench. I got a number of "CHECK ENGINE" lights; the dealer has scanned out the computer repeatedly and supposedly it's the idle-stepper motor but the motor never seems to have a problem at the dealer's. Next time it happens, he's agreed to replace the stepper motor anyway. The car runs fine when this happens; it's just an annoying Lucasglitch. The electronic key isn't bad on mine- I get about a 20' range IF I hold the key above window level. The recieve antenna is inside the dashboard, remember? I haven't done any long-distance 4-wheeling yet, but I did use the D as a counterweight for a two-person hammock. Worked great. :-) According to my dealer, my D holds the dubious honor of the highest-mileage D in North America- 25,000 miles. It's been up and down the East Coast a number of times. The D "projects ki" very well. No trouble driving it through Manhattan a few times- even Gothamites seem to be somewhat afraid of it. It's got that "I don't mind steamrollering you" look to it. Gas mileage is 13 to 17 (in other words, crappy). I've already got Mobil-1 synthetic in the crankcase; anybody have any opinion as to the suitability of using it in the automatic transmission (yes, there IS a Mobil-1 ATF), as well as going to Mobil-1 synthetic gear oil in the transfer case, diffs, and swivels? Weaknesses: the door locks should be moved off the sill; the seats need a better adjuster than the starwheel, and there should be an easy way to remove the rear seats entirely when you want a *big* cargo bay. Everything else is great; the car is about as solid as anything I've ever dealt with. The mechanicals remind me of pre-1960 lathes... "This machine, if given proper maintenance, is designed to operate *for* *ever* *and* *ever*. If it ever breaks, it's because *you* *f____d* *up*. Replace what you broke, change the lube, and carry on." From Bill Yerazunis Mon Jan 9 10:56:34 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 10:56:34 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: 94 Discovery I also have a 94 Discovery, and yup, it dripped the exhaust manifold-to- pipe nuts at about 12Kmiles. I replaced 'em with stainless-steel M6 nuts and that's held. The front passenger doorlatch also came unscrewed at around 20Kmiles; that was an easy fix with a big allen wrench. I got a number of "CHECK ENGINE" lights; the dealer has scanned out the computer repeatedly and supposedly it's the idle-stepper motor but the motor never seems to have a problem at the dealer's. Next time it happens, he's agreed to replace the stepper motor anyway. The car runs fine when this happens; it's just an annoying Lucasglitch. The electronic key isn't bad on mine- I get about a 20' range IF I hold the key above window level. The recieve antenna is inside the dashboard, remember? I haven't done any long-distance 4-wheeling yet, but I did use the D as a counterweight for a two-person hammock. Worked great. :-) According to my dealer, my D holds the dubious honor of the highest-mileage D in North America- 25,000 miles. It's been up and down the East Coast a number of times. The D "projects ki" very well. No trouble driving it through Manhattan a few times- even Gothamites seem to be somewhat afraid of it. It's got that "I don't mind steamrollering you" look to it. Gas mileage is 13 to 17 (in other words, crappy). I've already got Mobil-1 synthetic in the crankcase; anybody have any opinion as to the suitability of using it in the automatic transmission (yes, there IS a Mobil-1 ATF), as well as going to Mobil-1 synthetic gear oil in the transfer case, diffs, and swivels? Weaknesses: the door locks should be moved off the sill; the seats need a better adjuster than the starwheel, and there should be an easy way to remove the rear seats entirely when you want a *big* cargo bay. Everything else is great; the car is about as solid as anything I've ever dealt with. The mechanicals remind me of pre-1960 lathes... "This machine, if given proper maintenance, is designed to operate *for* *ever* *and* *ever*. If it ever breaks, it's because *you* *f____d* *up*. Replace what you broke, change the lube, and carry on." From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Jan 09 09:13:05 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 09:13:05 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Disco named "Rover" FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco named "Rover" Hello all, just "needed" to send off a note to articulate on my latest antics, and announce the name of my '94 L.R. Discovery. First of all, her (note gender) name is "Rover" in honor of her roots. Underneath all the shine (well, mud at the moment...) leather, smooth ride, and fluff sits the guts of what I totally believe to be the toughest truck produced today. (Note: FOUR WHEELER magazine has announced the Discovery their four wheeler of the year in the February issue, with one of the drivers stating "The Discovery is the only real four-wheel drive in the group.") While I've only owned her for just under 4 months, she already has over 11K miles, many of which have been off-road. Her gender is due to her being a Land Rover, as any rover owner can testify that they can be temperamental, as woman can be. No offense, just the facts. (Mine is still in that "newlywed" mode, and hasn't given me troubles yet.... but the honeymoon's not over yet! ;) ) Or.... maybe the honeymoon IS over, as I need to sell my beloved Rover. ;( I feel like I'm putting my faithful dog of 12 years down to sleep! Heavy sigh.... but tough as it is, it's what I must do. On second thought... I will submit my antics in another note.... talk to ya soon. Dave & "Rover" - Phoenix Arizona USA #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From BwanaE@aol.com Mon Jan 9 11:33:00 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:33:00 -0500 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: 6-cyl questions For John Hess: My workshop manual supplement for the NADA 2.6 litre specifies Champion N4 sparkplugs gapped to .030 If you do decide on a re-bore, a special jig is required due to the unique cylinder head configuration. FWIW, I have dealt for years with Tom Gannon of British Rovers in Lewiston, California (up near Redding). His work has always been excellent and thorough, and as I write this his shop is doing a re-bore on my 67 LWB SW, NADA 6-cyl. I'm very fussy about who lays hands upon my "baby", but I trust Tom. His number is 800/LD-ROVER if you want to call and ask him questions about your engine's travails. Regards, Eric. From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Mon Jan 9 11:14:52 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:14:52 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: 2.25 petrol engine for sale (TX - USA) I'm passing this on for a friend. I don't know anymore about it than what's in this note. Contact him directly for more info. Engine coming out 1/7/95 in favor of a chevy conversion. For: Good runner, 120 lbs compression in 1-3, #4 cylinder is 115, new/used - distributor, intake exhaust manifolds, newly sanded and painted oil bath, engine cleaned. Against: Recently noisy lifter, burns a little oil at startup, leaks like a Rover. Keeping modified alternator and electronic ignition. Sell is as whole for $450 + shipping. Will part out in late Jan. if no offer. manifolds - $50 distributor - 40 oil bathe - 25 head - 100 block - 100 starter - 20 oil pump - 35 water pump - 40 carb/zenith - 100 Call John Spitta (512) 472-3666 ext. 308 From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Mon Jan 09 10:20:11 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 10:20:11 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Rover antics... FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Rover antics... Hello again, It's been several weeks since my last post of "Rover antics", not because there hasn't been any, but I've just been too busy to post. Well, I'm STILL busy, but what the heck... Last Thursday I had to take off work early to pick up my kids (10 and 11yr olds) from my ex-wife and since it was early afternoon, we decided to go "Rovering"! I found a LARGE area where a new planned community is going in and there are several lakes being built, golf courses, numerous roads made by a single pass of a tractor, and LOTS OF MUD! (It just rained for several days prior.) We had a FANTASTIC time! The kids LOVED it, we stormed at high speed through numerous pools of water, and much mud. (If you live in the Phoenix AZ area, it's on the South side of Shea blvd. across from Fountain Hills, and seems to be about as large as Fountain Hills.) This couldn't have come at a better time, as the heavy rains had washed off all the mud that I had on "Rover" from the past weeks in Sedona and Flagstaff Arizona. Ahhhh.... nothing like a nice mud bath to remove that new car feeling. ;) Nothing overly deep, probably no more than 18 inches, but great fun anyway! I wasn't overly concerned with treading lightly, since these were going to be paved roads anyway. Then on Friday, the singles from the Church group I belong with decided we'd take our 4wd's and go out romping and stomping, and find a great place to pray. My friend's Grand Cherokee was not in good working order (no flames please, but this is no surprise...) so it was down to 11 guys, my Discovery, and my friend's Trooper. Mine holds up to 7, but we only had 6 in it. We went down to the Salt river, and romped all over the numerous trails, sand, rocky hill climbs, loose rocks, and a little water. We didn't do any river crossings since the river was flowing pretty fast and deep with all the rain we had lately. Warning: "bragging" time: The Land Rover was BY FAR superior to the Trooper! The poor little Trooper had a lot of trouble getting up the loose rocky hills, and needed some rocking forth and back and took several minutes of effort getting up one little section of hill. I patiently waited at the bottom of the hill, away from the danger of flying rocks and watched the gallant efforts of the little "pooper"/Trooper. Then, when he cleared I just crawled up with absolutely NO effort, very little wheel spin at all. The first time, I even stopped half way up the hill (waiting for my friend) and re-started while on a loose rocky incline! Then, at one point, the "pooper" got stuck in some shallow water with loose river rocks, and I had to tug him out with my tow strap. After this recovery, my friend was laughing, saying that he thought I was going to pull off his bumper, because he thought I was going too fast (about 5-10 mph) but he didn't realize that it was an energy (oh drat! I forgot the name of that silly strap) "stretchy" strap, and snapped him right out! My friend made some feeble attempt to explain the Trooper's performance blaming it on the weight of his Trooper being less, but I don't think it's that much less than the Rover. Then he said "That's a "real" 4 wheel drive, isn't it?" (Meaning it has locking differentials) but I assured him that they were "open" just like the Trooper's. (That's when he mentioned the weight thing.) But then, he could have bought 3 of his age Troopers, for the price of the Rover. The old adage, you get what you pay for... When we stopped to pray, we shot some arrows into a target he brought, talked a bit, then sang some songs, and had a GREAT prayer time. All in all, a great time with some great friends. Saturday, we "all" went to see a movie, "Dumb and Dumber" (Appropriately named. ;( ) and while in the theatre, some @#$-@%$ yanked off one of the tail light guards, leaving in it's place a hole in the aluminum body of the Rover where the bolt was pulled right through! Another heavy sigh... Then, my oldest boy, 15, returned from visiting his mom in Las Vegas, and of course, wanted to go 4-wheeling! (Especially after seeing the muddy truck!) So, Sunday after Church, off we went, to find more mud and water! However, most of the water was dried up, and only a few mud patches remained. I also had a friend's 6 year old boy with me this time, who was (note the past tense.) terribly afraid of off roading. Well, with the laughter of my kids, and MUCH reassurance, he overcame the tears and fears, and actually wants to go again! His mother was grateful too! Tragedies of the past weekend: Tail light guard ripped off. (Figuratively and literally.) Coffee spilled all over the insides. (Thank God for leather seats that are easily cleaned.) and undoubtedly, more of the infamous "desert pin-stripes." Benefits: Friendships bonded, closeness with my kids, a small child's fears conquered. In my opinion, well worth the cost. On a side note: The CD player worked AMAZINGLY well! It only skipped 2 times during ALL the 4wd activity and these were at a high rate of speed, with the truck loaded with people, and bottoming out the suspension after getting at least a foot of air under both rear tires! "Normal" off-roading had NO adverse affect! My only regret is that I must sell the Rover. Anyone interested??? Did I mention that it's never been off-road? ;) New, lower price! ;) Take care, tread lightly and safely... #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Mon Jan 09 12:11:49 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 12:11:49 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Various Joseph writes with problems with the electronic ignition. I'm not familiar with the Alison unit but have been running with the Luminition one for six years now (and if *it* starts acting up, I'm gonna hunt you down! ;->). Unlike the mechanical breakers, electronic ignition fails all at once...no sputtering or missing telling you its time to clean and gap the points. Fit the points and if the problem goes away, order the Luminition (unless the Alison unit is under warranty). One of the main reasons for failure is overheating of the power control module: mount it in an out of the way spot as far away from engine heat as possible. Chris writes with a pulsing question - feedback through the brake pedal. This is fairly common in older Rovers: one or more of the brake drums is warped or out of round. Any brake shop should be able to turn them as long as the max diameter is not passed (10.06" if I recall). Jimmy asks: "was your LR's previous owner an idiot?" The previous owner of mine was British Leyland. QED. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Jimi Patel Mon Jan 9 09:46:19 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 09:46:19 -0800 From: Jimi Patel Subject: Range Rover 85 Brake problem Greetings from the Earthquake Country [Granada Hills, S. California] Fellow Rover experts, Yes, it's that time again... My name is Jimi Patel and I own a 1985 Range Rover automatic. I have a problem with brakes. When I brake, the RR won't stop dead, it decides to stop whenever. It seems that there is air in the system, but I purged all the air-out and replaced the brake fluid. I repeated this process several times now, still with no effect. The pedal goes all the way to the bottom [not spongy], I have tried pumping it, still won't stop the RR in time. The braking system is not leaking any fluids anywhere. I replaced all the pads [OEM Lucas] the rotors were turned, new check-valve, seal and vacumme hose replaced etc. I am somewhat at a dead-end now having tried everything from the book and would appreciate any suggestions or hints. P.S. I drive a Suburban when I brake the "bus" stops DEAD. Am I, expecting too much from the Rover??? Many Thanks, Jimi Patel.. From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Jan 9 16:15:04 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 16:15:04 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Famous rover owners - January 1995 Here is the current list of famous people with Land Rover vehicles (or good connections with them) Please send and additions/corrections to Ian.Stuart@ed.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------- Elizabeth Windsor (et al) - Range Rovers, dicoveries and Defenders (numbers?) Queen Elizabeth - A Bronze Green 110 Defender (manual) John Rhys Davies owns four and he says he couldn't be bothered with the new Discos or Range Rovers (they're "devoid of panache"). His fleet includes: a IIa 109 with roof-tent in Kenya, an ex-RAF '88 110, a 109 Luten-body workshop vehicle with Lincoln arc-welder soon to be a 130" and an indeterminate 109 with advanced frame cancer (a "project vehicle"). The latter three are at his residence on the Isle of Mann. Ross Perot - Several -- Series IIa's and III's Jane Fonda and hubby Ted Turner also own a pair of the US-spec Defender 110's they keep at their western ranch (i.e., the state of Montana). Ralph Loren has a couple of NA spec 110's, but painted black. Robin Williams - 110 Defender, but used to drive an 88 before Mork Bryan Adams - 90 Defender (possibly a RR/Defender 100" hybrid) Kevin Costner - a black 88 (I, II, III, hybrid?) Sylvester Stallone - 109 Oprah Winfre (sp?) - Defender (90/110?) Rosanne Barr-Arnold - Range Rover Sean Connery. Defender 90 at his estate in Costa Brava, Spain. Confirmation please? Anika Rice (UK TV personality) - RR based dune-buggy (UFS 475 Y?). This may belong to the TV company though. Vanessa Williams (the 1984 ex- Miss America who had her crown withdrawn) New grey Range Rover LWB County... Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman - Range Rover LWB Demi Moore and Bruce Willis - Range Rover LWB Meg Ryan and Dennis Quaid - Range Rover LWB Don Johnson and Melanie Griffith - Range Rover LWB (Now split up? - who has the 'Rover?) Mel Gibson - Range Rover Michael Douglas - Range Rover Jane Fonda - Range Rover Emilio Estevez - Range Rover Patrick Swayze - Range Rover Jack Nicholson - Range Rover Stefanie Powers - Range Rover Michael J. Fox - Range Rover Rod Stewart - Range Rover Cher - Range Rover George Michael - Range Rover Barry Manilow - Range Rover Michael Jackson - Range Rover Richard Branson - Range Rover (British Army Officer) Col. Hewitt - Range Rover Janet Jackson - Dicovery? (Gift from agent or someone) Sting - discovery ?Kath from EastEnders (UK)? - Range Rover <-- actually, it was her boyfriends. Robert Wagner - ? They Want... Ralph Lauren -- approached LRNA with the concept of a Ralph Lauren RR Chris Evert -- "Andy's [Mills] the art lover," says Chris. "I'd rather have a Range Rover than a $40,000 painting." Historical..... Paul & Linda McArtney - [in 1969] The happy McCartney family posing with their Series One, apparently a Station Wagon. I don't know about currently, but up until fairly recently Paul had a Cairngorm Brown SE complete with Genuine Part side steps and Bull Bar ---------------------------------------------------------------- ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do optimists find it full of disappointments. | it in the mud. From "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> 09 95 Jan EST 1913 Date: 09 Jan 95 13:10:02 EST From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Subject: Replace Eng. Fellow LR Owners, I am about to replace my 6 cyl.2.6l 1950'ish Rover engine contained in my NADA 1967 109 SW with a Turner re-built 4cyl 2.5liter which I recently imported from the UK.The fellow who is going to do the work is a Gary Landers who works just outside Wash. DC.Has anyone had any experience with this fellow and please send me your comments about this conversion. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Benjamin G. Newman Ps I am also going to change out the old series 11 tranny for a re-built series 111. From "Mugele, Gerry" Mon Jan 09 10:17:00 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 95 10:17:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Yakima Rax The tower extension I have are manufactured by Yakima, and I believe they have three different size extensions but that AB only sells the tallest. It's the only one that'll work on a LR. Again, mine DOES contact the sides of my roof. But it causes no harm and seems to only "rest" against it. I'd prefer to have the gutters be the sole point of contact but... And I am very picky about my critter. The top is very nearly perfect (well one grawnch from a low hanging ponderosa pine branch) and I would not let the rack inflict damage to my beloved LR. If you want, you can send me your snail mail addr and I'll send you a photo of the rack in place. Gerry From Morgan Hannaford Mon Jan 9 11:17:48 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 11:17:48 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Rover with Beemer motor I talked my girlfriend into buying a 1973 BMW 2002 Tii last week after her 1989 VW Cabriolet blew its engine. I feel kind of retroyuppie with a '69 Land Rover and a '73 BMW. We took it to the local BMW gurus, Hardy and Beck (H&B), in Berkeley for some minor repairs. They had a pamphlet describing the BMW takeover of Rover. Now, I don't know how true this is but the pamphlet said that Range Rovers will soon be fitted with the BMW V8 for North America and that they will start servicing newish Rovers at this BMW shop. Can anyone verify this? They have not heard anything about the BMW Turbo diesels, just the gas guzzlers. Ciao, Morgan U.C. Berkeley From Sanna@aol.com Mon Jan 9 14:37:20 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 14:37:20 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Lulubelle I bought my IIa (Lulubelle) new in 1970. It has 1/3 million miles on it, and I have just passed it on to my son at U of O in Eugene. We just drove it out to Oregon from Wisconsin and it ran like a top on the road, but around Helena, MT it started to die at stop signs and become difficult to restart. Sometimes, after a little breather it would do the stop and go's, idling fine (sometimes not). Carburator icing has been suggested, but the prob continues in the warmer climes of Eugene. The engine has been running "better than new". It had a .10 over rebuild at 150,000 and it was "freshened" at 230,000. For the last 15 years it has had a Atl-Brit header installed (after cracking 3 exhaust manifolds), and has evolved from the original Zenith, to a Rochester, to the current 1-lung Weber. The local WI garage just replaced the fuel filter, plugs, points, condenser, and ingnition wires just before the trip. They tried to time it with a light and got it all wrong, but I re-static-timed it to TDC before the trip. Both tanks were sand-blasted and lined 5 years ago. Any ideas on the cause of the faultering? I've been looking for a Zen Rover mechanic in Eugene, but no luck yet. - Tony From Jon Humphrey Mon Jan 9 15:21:55 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 15:21:55 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Range Rover 85 Brake problem Hey Jimi, I'm no RR guru, but it sure sounds like your master cylinder is shot. Let us know what happens. Jon From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Mon Jan 09 16:41:12 1995 Date: Mon, 09 Jan 1995 16:41:12 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Lulubelle's a Stumblin' Tony writes: >>We just drove it out to Oregon from Wisconsin and it ran like a top on the road, but around Helena, MT it started to die at stop signs and become difficult to restart. Sometimes, after a little breather it would do the stop and go's, idling fine (sometimes not). Carburator icing has been suggested, but the prob continues in the warmer climes of Eugene. >>We just drove it out to Oregon from Wisconsin and it ran like a top on the Tony, Just a guess- how much of a difference in the altitude is there? If it is significant, it could be running richer. Try turning in the idle mixture screw 1/8 at a time, noting your starting point for reference should this not work. Buy your son some tools, a dwell meter, and a Haynes manual for the Rover. 1st set the points. If it has a Lucas distributor, gap the points to .016, then set them to about 60 degrees with a dwell meter (trial & error). If you have the later distributor, sorry, I don't know the figures. Have him clean the points with a point file to be sure (yea, I know the garage did it, but I just don't trust 'em), then set the timing to 6 degrees BTDC. Do this even if the mixture screw is the answer. It'll make it run MUCH better than if set at TDC. Good luck! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Mon Jan 9 15:30:13 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 15:30:13 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Lulubelle In message <950109143719_3563435@aol.com> writes: > I bought my IIa (Lulubelle) new in 1970. It has 1/3 million miles on it, > and I have just passed it on to my son at U of O in Eugene. We just drove it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > Any ideas on the cause of the faultering? I've been looking for a Zen Rover > mechanic in Eugene, but no luck yet. - Tony Check the points to see if they slipped. Look in the fuel pump sediment bowel. You might have gotton bad gas. The sediment bowel will tell you if you have water or if you pumped major crud into the system. There could be a number of possibilities besides these. If these do not fix the problem, inspect condition & adjustment of everything you would do in a tune up. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Morgan Hannaford Mon Jan 9 17:28:55 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 17:28:55 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: 4-wheeler mag: Rovers galore The Feb. issue of 4-Wheeler magazine is the issue to get for Land Rover owners of any model. Usually this rag is filled with jacked up chevy trucks that are likely to tip over on any cambered road. But, this month there are several articles featuring the aluminum workhorses that we all know and love. 1) As we have heard, and why I went out to get this issue, the Discovery is the 4X4 of the year. "The only real 4X4 tested". "Even a better babe magnet than the Defender"(last years winner). "Goes everywhere the other trucks did, with the diff. unlocked", etc. 2) The Transyllvania Trophy finally makes the pages of an American magizine. I read articles about this event in LRO, Land Rover World, and 4-wheel and SUV magazine at the end of Summer '94. Filled with Land Rovers, including the infamous shot of a Camel Disco sunk half- way up the windshield, makes for fun reading. Of course the writer does go on and on about the Jeeps et al., then finishes by hoping that the next Warn Challenge is close enough for American 4X4s to enter. I can't wait to see the Jeeper set get their ego a little deflated, like a punctured 35x15x16 Super Swamper. 3) On the last page, reserved for classic stock rigs, they detail a vehicle close to my heart (and pocket book): 1969 Series IIA 88". This completely stock Rover was refurbished by Cheshire Auto in New Hampshire, with a short plug for Rover$ North. Words just can't explain my awe looking at this beauty. 4) Finally, a here!here! goes to one Conrad Rego of NY (a RR owner) who says in a letter to the editor that Rover vehicles are seemingly absent from the pages of this magazine. The editor makes some lame excuses and notes the few spots Rover vehicles have been featured. Last month, however, the editor "dissed" an Arizona Land Rover owner in the readers' rigs section (a nice Ser. III) wondering "why anyone would want to [steal it]". The reader just wanted to find some other owners to go rovering (new verb) with. Well, I am going to send a nice letter to the editor of this rag stating my gratitude for the coverage of Land Rovers in this issue. I'll also describe my vehicle as an example of a modified Land Rover, having the Chevy 250 truck engine with a Holley carb., a 1" lift from Rancho add-a-leafs in the rear and rearched springs in the front (R.P. Reid did a similar mod. to his with good results). And Rancho 5000 shocks all around. I would like to encourage others to do the same, maybe we can turn this magazine around. Ciao, Morgan Hannaford '69 88" U.C. Berkeley From grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Mon Jan 9 18:36:30 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 95 18:36:30 PST From: grea@virgo.net.gov.bc.ca (Gordon Rea 660-0216 (NTO Vanc.)) Subject: Brake Fluid Hows this for a survey question: How many pedal pumps does your LR need before the brakes kick in? Mine is up to 5 and I am seriously thinking about getting the horn working! I have changed the brake shoes and things seemed to improve by 1 pump. When I bought this thing the guy told me I had to use a special type of brake fluid because of some natural rubber seals used somewhere in the braking system. Well I haven't done this, but then again I havent been losing much fluid either. Has anyone heard about needing this "Special" brake fluid? Also, when I finally get presure on the brakes and stand on pedal, it STAYS hard and DOESNT slowly leak to the floor. Only when I have taken my foot off the brake and driven a few blocks do I have to pump up the brakes again. Bleed the brakes? Master cylinder? Use the handbrake to stop ? As for previous owners: When I bought my LR ( 65 IIa ) I failed to notice that the front and rear tires were different sizes. Eager to use the 4WD I drove up a mountain to play with it in the snow. It was snowing a little when I headed down so I left it 4WD. When I hit the dry pavement the LR was all over the road. I fought it for a few miles untill I pulled over and took it out of 4WD. This event might have had something to do with the teeth missing on the crown gear of my rear diff. g. From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 9 19:15:34 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 19:15:34 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: ruta maya? British Car magazine covered la Ruta Maya in the June 1994 pp 28-34. Features the Disco on the cover. Editor Dave Destler was a participant on the run. He also has a great editorial wherein he relates how the SoCal quake affected him. (He was on his way to the airport for la Ruta Maya when it hit.) British Car June, 1994 Issue #49 pp 28 - 34 Monkeys, Mud, and Mayan Gods by Dave Destler --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From justfred@netcom.com (Fred Heald) Mon Jan 9 20:45:43 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 20:45:43 -0800 From: justfred@netcom.com (Fred Heald) Subject: Was your previous LR owner an idiot? Jimmy (jimmyp@netcom.com) poses the question:, >We have had polls on names of land-rovers, names of the list, celebrity >rovers, movies with rovers, etc. Here is the question i would like to ask: >Was your LR's Previous Owner an idiot? none Well, I hate to go pointing fingers here, when I'm so often an idiot myself, but let's just say the previous owner of my 88" relied heavily on the vehicle's durability. The guy I bought it from was a beach bum who used to to drive from his home in Venice (CA) to the nearby surf spot and back. When I drove it home... -The choke had only one poisition, ON, so when you'd driven it long enough for the engine to heat up it started flooding. -Third and fourth gears didn't work (synchromesh clip, typical on II trans), had never worked while he owned the truck. He had a margerine tub full of trans parts the previous owner had given him. -Alternator didn't work much, had to push start it (he lived on a hill). -The rear main oil seal was MISSING. I found this out later - wondered why when I parked on a hill pointed upward, oil ran out. But hey, how can I criticize him - I bought it! (and have since spent about 10X the purchase price restoring it). Fred Heald justfred@netcom.com WWW Home page: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/ju/justfred/fred.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If you know where a meteor mill land, you can go there and get hit." -Andrew S. Grove, Intel President/CEO, about the Pentium bug ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From justfred@netcom.com (Fred Heald) Mon Jan 9 20:45:43 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 20:45:43 -0800 From: justfred@netcom.com (Fred Heald) Subject: Was your previous LR owner an idiot? Jimmy (jimmyp@netcom.com) poses the question:, >We have had polls on names of land-rovers, names of the list, celebrity >rovers, movies with rovers, etc. Here is the question i would like to ask: >Was your LR's Previous Owner an idiot? none Well, I hate to go pointing fingers here, when I'm so often an idiot myself, but let's just say the previous owner of my 88" relied heavily on the vehicle's durability. The guy I bought it from was a beach bum who used to to drive from his home in Venice (CA) to the nearby surf spot and back. When I drove it home... -The choke had only one poisition, ON, so when you'd driven it long enough for the engine to heat up it started flooding. -Third and fourth gears didn't work (synchromesh clip, typical on II trans), had never worked while he owned the truck. He had a margerine tub full of trans parts the previous owner had given him. -Alternator didn't work much, had to push start it (he lived on a hill). -The rear main oil seal was MISSING. I found this out later - wondered why when I parked on a hill pointed upward, oil ran out. But hey, how can I criticize him - I bought it! (and have since spent about 10X the purchase price restoring it). Fred Heald justfred@netcom.com WWW Home page: ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/ju/justfred/fred.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "If you know where a meteor mill land, you can go there and get hit." -Andrew S. Grove, Intel President/CEO, about the Pentium bug ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Jan 10 00:50:35 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 00:50:35 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Misc. tots Roger looks at big trucks and gets ideas.... > There was a moving truck parked outside the building I'm working in > t'other day, and as I was walking past, I noticed something out of the > corner of my eye that didn't register until later. Like most truckers, > this one had a CB, but the mike was not mounted on a fixed mount, but > rather it seemed to be hanging from a string -- perhaps bungee cord. Bungee cord sounds about right... but I think you need a real light weight one. It's either that or you build up big muscles in your right arm!!! My "little" brother is a trucker, but I can't remember exactly how his mic is set up.. bungee cord sounds about right though... Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "Kelly Minnick" Mon Jan 9 22:13:04 1995 Date: Mon, 9 Jan 1995 22:13:04 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Extra Fuel Tank RE: Fuel Tanks As I have mentioned before, I am putting a second tank under the driver seat of my LHD '73 Safari. I had to remove the seat box (which has dibbs on it) and I am currently trying to fit a right-hand tank to the left hand. The filler hole is cut along with the bench in the rear. Since the filler hole in the tank is offset to the right, what special type of hoses or welded up filler neck is necessary? Midas (a muffler shop) says he can make me a special adaptor, but I would need some kind of special hoses to connect this. Any ideas? Also, since this is a USA CA vehicle, I had this bullet- proof metal can under the left-hand bench for fuel-vapor recovery. Do I need to re-install this somewhere, or do the smog people check for this? Also, I don't have 4 outlets (large filler, filler vent, fuel line to pump, and tank to reservior) on the NEW tank. It must be an older tank before the charcoal canister was required. Do smog guys check to see if the two tanks are tied together? I was planning on just running the one vent line from the right tank directly to the charcoal canister. Is this a problem? I don't want too much fuel to go to the canister and cause a source of fire! On another note... I need the covering on the inside of the firewall (the fake vinyl looking stuff) and floor/tunnel covering. The LR parts are about $89 each from Craddocks. Any ideas? Seems a little pricey! OK - one last question before you all go to sleep. I am looking into putting ARB air lockers on (at least in the rear). Does the front help that much (Vs the $750 price). And, will I be destroying axles if I install this? I have already driven this vehicle up so pretty wild hills that friends couldn't go up with junk tires in second gear. They were amazed (I was inside ). I told them it was typical! (yeah, right) Thanks for the help in advance. Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Jan 10 02:18:50 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 02:18:50 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Brake Fluid Gordon's next move is to buy an anchor... > Hows this for a survey question: > How many pedal pumps does your LR need before the brakes kick in? > Mine is up to 5 and I am seriously thinking about getting the horn > working! none Sounds about right! > I have changed the brake shoes and things seemed to improve by 1 pump. > When I bought this thing the guy told me I had to use a special type of > brake fluid because of some natural rubber seals used somewhere in the > working! CASTROL GT-LMA brake fluid. I found out the hard way with a Triumph Spitfire in the dead of winter. I had rebuilt the clutch slave cylinder and used some American fluid. A few days later I had *no* clutch at all. That was 21 years ago so maybe things have changed but since then I've only used Castrol and never had that problem again. As far as your problem goes, sounds like there is air in the master cylinder. It's a bitch to bleed since it sits at a odd angle. Some people have had luck with priming or filling the master cylinder barrel with fluid before installing it and then bleeding it. Others have had to get the front end of the truck higher than the back end. Try bleeding it again. > As for previous owners: > When I bought my LR ( 65 IIa ) I failed to notice that the > front and rear tires were different sizes. Eager to use the 4WD I drove > working! -----snip----- > This event might have had something to do with the teeth missing on > the crown gear of my rear diff. Bucked a little bit, did it.. :) You're not the first.. or the last! Good luck with the brakes. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Jan 10 02:18:33 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 02:18:33 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: 4-wheeler mag: Rovers galore Morgan gets revved up about 4-wheeler... > The Feb. issue of 4-Wheeler magazine is the issue to get for Land > Rover owners of any model. Usually this rag is filled with jacked > up chevy trucks that are likely to tip over on any cambered road. > But, this month there are several articles featuring the aluminum > workhorses that we all know and love. ----snip----- > Well, I am going to send a nice letter to the editor of this > rag stating my gratitude for the coverage of Land Rovers in this issue. ----snip----- > I would like to > encourage others to do the same, maybe we can turn this magazine around. I pick up an issue of 4-Wheeler (andFrom jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Tue Jan 10 00:10:17 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 00:10:17 -0800 From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank >As I have mentioned before, I am putting a second tank under the driver seat >of my LHD '73 Safari. I had to remove the seat box (which has dibbs on it) [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >a special adaptor, but I would need some kind of special hoses to connect >this. Any ideas? When I installed my second gas tank, I was in a rush, and got most of the pieces from RN. Then jut cut the RHD filler tube and inserted a straight piece to lengthen it... wors fine. I could look at it again if you want more details/dimensions. -jory >Ridgecrest, CA From Pierre Antony Ketteridge Tue Jan 10 05:16:49 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 05:16:49 GMT From: Pierre Antony Ketteridge Subject: PROJECT 4X4XFUN OK, y'all, it's Pierre here again, and I've been lumbered with some *more* charity work connected with offroading... NO! NO! Don't press 'n' yet! They're *NOT* looking for donations, rather, they're looking for putting what they've already collected to charitable use! [Tho' I'm sure they wouldn't turn anything away!] I guess this might be of more interest to the UK readership, but who knows. Basic background: "Project 4x4xFUN" is a South Yorkshire-based, non-profit making, self-financing organisation which in 1994, through fundraising, raised the money and effort to fit out a Land Rover for disabled driver use (dual control, auto box, wheelchair storage, specially strengthened chassis & body etc) and who are now looking for ways to make its availability known to schools, youth organisations and disabled charities throughout the UK. The project has already prepared and adapted other 4WD vehicles for fund-raising international expeditions and challenges (both disabled and able-bodied), and hopes to enter the project vehicle in various prestigious rallies in the UK this year. The sponsors and committee of "Project 4x4xFUN" have asked me to, through my industry contacts (both journalistic and computer-related), help bring awareness of the project and the facilities offered to a wider audience. Well, the papermail stuff's straightforward enough - plenty of legwork, phonecalls, faxes etc on my part. I think that coverage of the project could initially make an interesting item in a "News" column of various newspapers, motorsport/leisure/educational/disability/motability magazines, with (hopefully) more in-depth articles (with photos) once the facilities (vehicle maintenance workshops, supervised green laning, weekend safaris, loan-outs to other charity events etc) are being used effectively. There is also scope for more technical articles on the conversion of a 4x4 vehicle to this type of use. What I'd like to ask the list is this: Apart from ideas for who to target media-wise, does anyone have any knowlege of suitable internet lists/digests, USENET newsgroups etc I could post such information to (No, *not* alt.flame!)? Email or post to digest any suggestions, please. BTW, would the list/digest be interested in my stories of the conversions, transcontinental rallies etc? You just have to ask... Thanks for any help you can give... -- Pierre OBTW before I get accused of blatant advertising, and in case there's any ambiguity, the project's not paying me anything for this (tho' if the glossies are interested, and stump up some lolly, it might offset my phone and stamp bills!). -- Pierre From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Tue Jan 10 09:20:10 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:20:10 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: HO HO HONG! etc As I pound away at my keyboard, there sits in front of me a photo of a red topless III 88 with the tallest Korean I've ever seen with a red & green elf's hat and a Poinsettia plant in the spare tire (and a wreath on the late IIA galvanized grille). Great picture, John. From what I can see it is has a standard hood, no top or hoops, some sort of jerry can carrier in the back, lamp protectors front & rear, D-rings on the front bumper, NO CORROSION in the rear bed where the seatbelt brackets meet the bed, and hub seals that sling more oil than Ben Smith's 88 (but less than Steve Denis's 109). My questions for John are: 1. What is the purpose of the 1" X 1/2" wooden stud bolted/glued to the top of your windscreen? 2. There seems to be a long boxlike object protruding under the LH seat. It looks too small for a fuel tank from this angle. I'm puzzled. 3. Have you built some sort of storage box in the back? 4. What is that vertical tubular holder welded to your bulkhead just below the LH windscreen hinge? A toilet plunger holder? 5. What is the pipe frame set up that is fitted into the hoop holes that extends 2-4" from the body cappings? A roll bar for the vertically challenged? "BAH HUMVEE"? I like it! ----------------------------- Pierre wrote about Rover conversions for the disabled: I would be glad to hear of your postings, as a friend nearby who does frame up auto v-8 conversions on Rovers, lacks the use of his legs. I'll copy and drop off any notes to that effect. Thanks. From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Tue Jan 10 10:36:34 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 10:36:34 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello everyone: I collect Land Rover Club grill badges, T-shirts, and window stickers. If your club has these things (here called regalia) I would be interested in buying them. Please Post a response message to my address directly. News on the Mercruiser conversion: First, thanks to all that responded with comments from "may not be cammed suitably" to "I want to drive it". The engine is suppose to have suitable performance charasterics for the Land Rover with 127 ft lbs torque and 140 hp at 4,500 rpms. It is currently mounted in the front half of a bare 109 frame in the garage. Last weekend I finshed the motor mounts and fabricated a water inlet/thermostat housing that places the water inlet in the exact same location as the original (no radiator modification). Found a flywheel that will house the original 9.5" clutch. Am building a manifold adapter for the original manifolds. Benefits: stock Land Rover exhaust, carb, and air cleaner. Carb will undoubtably need rejetting. My remaining task is to fabricate the alternator mounts and test run the engine in the frame with radiator and "breakfast" in place. Since I have to finish up a 2.5 diesel conversion this weekend, the transplant will probably not be installed until Jan 22. My 2.25 diesel was rated at half the stock hp as this engine. There will probably be some loss of hp with the rover manifolds & carb, but with 140 to come down from there is no great concern. So what if its only 125 hp (adout twice what my diesel had). The engine a four cylinder, is actually shorter than the 2.25 leaving pleanty of room. Will keep you posted on the progress. R&D From Bruce Harding Tue Jan 10 08:25:05 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 08:25:05 PST From: Bruce Harding Subject: RE: Fuel Tank plumbing Text item: Text_1 Kelly, I have a second tank under the drivers seat. I don't have the tanks tied together. I run them to a manual fuel selector switch. Mine has 2 hoses going to the tank...a vent hose that goes from the tank to the filler neck (1970 not a closed system) and a filler hose. The filler hose is the same as the right side, just slightly modified. Take a standard filler hose and cut it in two in the middle (along the straight section). Find a 6" pipe of approiate diameter for the filler hose. Slip the now 2 piece filler hose over the pipe. Rotate the 2 pieces of filler hose 180 degrees from the precut position. Clamp the hose onto the pipe and you have a filler hose for the left side tank. Good luck...24 gallons is better than 12. Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com 70 88" Series IIA From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Jan 10 10:57:48 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 10:57:48 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Channels and brakes Richard Wegner writes about his alternator fix and is curious about window channels. Tell you what...tell me how to fix alternators and I'll tell you where to get stainless steel window channel! :-> OK...The stuff works and looks *great*. Rather than the felt/fungi/moss/ rust of the OEM steel type, the stainless slides on a track of Derlin, with synthetic felt for the sides. The Derlin in easily drilled so that SS phillips sheet metal screws can be countersunk. Try any ship chandler or marine parts supplier. If not, E-mail me direct and I'll give you the number of a local supplier...but the stuff only comes in 8' lengths, single and double track. Gordon Rea writes about brakes, specifically needing five pumps to get a pedal. Ordinary (DoT) mineral-based brake fluids will dissolve the natural rubber in older brake systems/seals. Only Castrol/Girling LMA (glycerol based) should be used. However, British made seals have been manufactured with neoprene for the past few years, so it isn't as much a problem as it used to be. However, you say that once you get a pedal, it stays hard, right? No fluid loss? Then the seals are fine...its just that the brake shoes have worn down or the drums are at or beyond maximum diameter. You're having to pump a lot of fluid to get the pistons to move far enough to engage the drums. Any brake shop should be able to re-bond the shoes (locally $7.50 a shoe) and turn the drums...if they havn't gone past 10.06". *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Jan 10 09:58:57 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 09:58:57 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Alternators OK...maybe the collective wisdom of the 'net can sort out the mysticisms of Lucas electrics.... Last Friday, I carried an 18ACR alternator in to have it rebuilt. The symptoms: 13.8 volts at startup, gradually dropping in output without any loads. Voltage drops well below 12v if any load (heater fan, parking lights, head lamps) are turned on. Brushes are short the shop says amd they rebuild the alternator. They say: bearings replaced (it *sounds* like it), regulator replaced (there is a new "Lucas Transport" regulator in there) and replaced the brushes (can't tell wothout disassembly). Over the weekend...a new battery (the biggest Sears Diehard) was fitted. Symptoms remain the same...voltage output falls off after a few minutes. Even the "auxillary" voltmeter (the turn signal clickers) says the voltage is dropping. And I haven't even turned on the real voltage killers...the pair of 150w driving lamps. At the shop Tuesday morning, the alternator passes all the tests on the machine...steady voltage (14.2v @ 1600 RPM) and the output (supposed to be 47 amps) measures as 45-46. Run for 15 min, *NO* problems on the machine. *Classic* examples of the Prince's handiwork. The fan belt is relatively new and properly adjusted, all contacts are shined up and the spade terminals are all crimped/soldered connections. Suggestions? FWIW...there was a Hitachi alternator sitting on the counter - an almost perfect match for the Lucas unit. Fits Nissan fork lifts. Smaller, higher output, bottom brackets identical...if only the tensioner lobe were relocated 30 degrees.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From Sanna@aol.com Tue Jan 10 13:26:39 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 13:26:39 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Disco vs. late RR Kelley - Yes, the '89 RR has hidden door hinges, and it is a whale without the front & rear stabilizers (Atlantic British sells a kit for about $1k). I have test driven new Discos quite a bit, considering a trade to new, but I still prefer my old RR better (new RR's are a bit pricy). The Disco's a great car but it feels much more cramped on the inside (although the dealer tells me that it's on the same frame as the RR). The windsheild is smaller and lower, the dash feels closer, and the rear seat (elevated above the front) is much harder to enter. I also prefer the spacious, fully retracting sunroof of the RR to the much smaller and only partially opening sunroof(s) of the disco. Don't get me wrong, the Discovery's the best $30k 4wd out there, but you can't beat the RR on or off the road. - Tony From "Kelly Minnick" Tue Jan 10 12:09:53 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:09:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Brake Booster RE: Vacuum brake boost line I have a SIII with a vacuum brAke boost. I am switching over to the single barrel Webber carb, but the stock LHD brake boost pipe that comes off the manifold does not clear the carb. Is there a LR replacement part? Do I just bend my stock pipe? Kelly Minnick '73 Safari Ridgecrest, CA From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Tue Jan 10 12:27:27 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:27:27 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: IBEX Newsletter More IBEX fun! I got an IBEX newsletter in the mail the other day (featuring my letter to John Foers [blush]). No definite announcement or pictures of the IBEX replacement but expectation that it will be in "production" sometime this month. The most interesting item was a separate article, complete with two pasted-in photographs, of a trip, last summer, to Val D'Isere, France, in the Alps, on the Italian border. Four Ibices made the trip, including John and Christine Foers, owners of Foers Engineering, makers of the IBEX. Nice article. I may write to ask permission to send it in to the Aluminum Workhorse. This was the first such trip but is planned to be an annual event. Couple of gnarly runs over the Alps into Italy and back. Sure would like to get a Four by Four by Foers and join in on the fun! I plan to research (sometime) the rules for registering "kit" vehicles in the U.S. specifically in California. Will probably post a question to the British Cars list, as there must be some Caterham Super-Seven owners and other British kit-car owners on that list. If it is a simple matter of its being subject to the rules for the year of the engine installed, I would have to use a really old engine. I was thinking that I could use an original Buick-Oldsmobile-Pontiac (BOP) aluminum V-8, which of course is the basis for the original Rover V-8. This would keep it as Roverly as possible. My preference would be to use a 3.9l efi V-8 from a Range Rover but don't want to have to install a catalytic converter if I can help it. Well, enuff. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Tue Jan 10 12:27:38 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 12:27:38 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Four-wheeler of the year Others have already commented on Four-Wheeler magazine's award to the Discovery and have pretty well covered it. I just wanted to comment that, as far as I could see, there was no comparison of Ramp-Travel Index, an excellent measure of effective axle articulation invented by Four-Wheeler. Naturally the Disco would have won this and it won the award anyway but the comparison would still have been interesting, methinks. Regarding the coverage of the Warn Trophy in Transylvania, I was glad to see it and especially to see the great pics of Pinzgauers (love the one with the external roll cage) and other exotics. Just wish the fotos had been a little larger. Could have eliminated those of Jeeps and Suzukis and FJ-40s to make more room for larger fotos of the Land-Rovers and other worthies... ;^} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Easton Trevor Tue Jan 10 12:23:00 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 12:23:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Superbase! See PC Magazine , January 24 edition , page 242-243 Sorry I got the poster!!! From Easton Trevor Tue Jan 10 16:02:00 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 16:02:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Points-anyone Our 1962 SIIA also has an Crane/Allison ignition system. Prior to the engine rebuild it also suffered from fouled plugs, which was probably due to the vast quantities of oil consumed via the bores (You could see into the sump past the pistons). The electronic ignition was so effective that it burned this oil with no smoke except when extremely loaded on long steep upgrades. Otherwise the ignition is so good it will start on the coldest (-30c) mornings the first touch of the starter. I only hope that having mentioned this it will remain true. Suggest you check first for compression readings. This can be done crudely using the starting handle, can you feel four distinct pressure peaks as you turn the engine? Is the force equal on all, four cylinders? etc. Re footwells etc Try raising the front of the vehicle a couple of feet using axle stands when bleeding the fronts to remove all air. Or back bleed by pumping fluid into the bleed nipple. From Dixon Kenner Tue Jan 10 17:05:37 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 17:05:37 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Brake Booster On Tue, 10 Jan 1995, Kelly Minnick wrote: > I have a SIII with a vacuum brAke boost. I am switching over to the single > barrel Webber carb, but the stock LHD brake boost pipe that comes off the > manifold does not clear the carb. Is there a LR replacement part? Do I just > bend my stock pipe? Many Land Rovers without the manifold drilled used a fitting coming off the adapter plate between the Zenith and the manifold. My adapter I am using for the Weber on the 88" is of this type, while on the 109" is is the straight adapter without vaccuum fitting. Bend the pipe, the adapter from LR isn't that cheap. Rgds, From Benjamin Allan Smith Tue Jan 10 15:18:52 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 15:18:52 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Brake Booster On Tue, 10 Jan 1995, Kelly Minnick wrote: > I have a SIII with a vacuum brAke boost. I am switching over to the single > barrel Webber carb, but the stock LHD brake boost pipe that comes off the > manifold does not clear the carb. Is there a LR replacement part? Do I just > bend my stock pipe? When I got my Webber, it also got an adaptor plate to mount it. The adaptor plate had a hole with a short (~0.5 inch) pipe coming out. So I attached the brake boost hose to this (actually I got a longe piece of hose to do this (is was about 1 inch too short) and blocked the manifold hole with a bolt. If you want to see what I've done give me a call W:927-1035 or H:375-3011. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Tue Jan 10 20:57:09 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 20:57:09 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank Kelly... I have a '71 IIa in which the previous owner (who was also the original owner) had installed a second tank. Like yours, he used a tank made for the right hand side. This truck is currently in pieces (another Land Rover jigsaw puzzle!) but I don't remember seeing anything special about the filler. It has what appears to be a regular filler assembly on the body. The hose from the filler neck to the tank *may* be longer than the one on the main tank. As to the expansion tank ("bullet proof metal can")... My '71 and '72 both have this "feature" so it's not exclusive to California. Along with the expansion tank and charcoal cannister, the filler cap should be a sealed type. The whole purpose of this is to prevent gasoline fumes from evaporating into the atmosphere. (HeHeHeHe) Couldn't even hazard a guess if CA emmisions tests will be able to tell if the aux tank is connected to it but from what other people have said, when it's inspected, they want to see that the canister is connected to something. ARB lockers.. Considering that you won't be using them unless you're really, really stuck... you probably won't damage anything. You'll probably find it difficult to steer with the front end locked in anyway. Locking diffs fore and aft is nice... you have traction as long as *one* wheel is touching something solid. If it was me, I would do only the rear and put the put the $750 towards a good winch. Unless you have a good winch. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Russell Burns Tue Jan 10 18:45:53 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 95 18:45:53 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 name > In the process of planning a trip with a friend Rick, and taking some ribing > about slowing turning into one of those yuppie types we can up with a name. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 30 lines)] > D-90 Sampsonite > R-Rover > --SAB05562.789792228/lint.cisco.com-- From Craig Murray Wed Jan 11 14:22:07 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 14:22:07 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: The antichrist, toro overdrives & an update on the diesel Hi all Long time no type! 1. The antichrist is 88" so that means that it is either a 57 or 58 model. 2. My brother was warned not to use a toro overdrive as the quality was not crash hot, the guy that warned him does not like the 5 speed for the same reasons, as it is derived from the santana 5 speed. 3. I did the dispickable thing last week, I took my Landy to a diesel mechanic, so it could be tuned correctly, and it turns out that my valve timing is out, so hopefully next time I drive it, it will have this funny thing called power!! -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | I slow for hills! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | but not of my own will From Roger Sinasohn Tue Jan 10 19:58:53 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 19:58:53 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Misc. tots The movie I caught was Wild Geese II (1985), which may or may not be the same as the Codename: Wildgeese (1986) listed in the last AW. Guess I'll have to pull up Cinemania to check this out... (And for some reason, Silicon Valley Business had no sound when I replayed the tape. 8^( ) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Jan 10 19:59:00 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 19:59:00 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Brake Fluid >Hows this for a survey question: >How many pedal pumps does your LR need before the brakes kick in? none Mine is only one, so far. It does squeal, though, when first starting out. >losing much fluid either. Has anyone heard about needing this "Special" >brake fluid? Also, when I finally get presure on the brakes and stand on Yes, I was told the same thing. It's BLM or LMF or something like that. I'm sure someone here can tell you exactly. >pedal, it STAYS hard and DOESNT slowly leak to the floor. Only when I have >taken my foot off the brake and driven a few blocks do I have to pump up >the brakes again. Bleed the brakes? Master cylinder? Use the handbrake >to stop ? I think this means you need to bleed the brakes. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Tue Jan 10 19:59:04 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 19:59:04 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Misc. tots Michael Loiodice knows what he's talking about... >Bungee cord sounds about right... but I think you need a real light weight But with a lightweight one, wouldn't it bounce around too much? >one. It's either that or you build up big muscles in your right arm!!! Is this bad? >My "little" brother is a trucker, but I can't remember exactly how his mic >is set up.. bungee cord sounds about right though... I was thinking a spring might be better, but that could be very dangerous too. I'm still working on this. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jan 11 00:46:00 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 00:46:00 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Alternators LUCAS!!! Arrgghh.... Sandy relates his problem... > Last Friday, I carried an 18ACR alternator in to have it rebuilt. The > symptoms: 13.8 volts at startup, gradually dropping in output without any > loads. Voltage drops well below 12v if any load (heater fan, parking ----snip---- > Symptoms remain the same...voltage output falls off after a few minutes. ----snip---- > At the shop Tuesday morning, the alternator passes all the tests on the > machine...steady voltage (14.2v @ 1600 RPM) and the output (supposed to be > 47 amps) measures as 45-46. Run for 15 min, *NO* problems on the machine. Well..... I've seen your truck, Sandy... So I can believe you when you say the connections are clean and tight.. So, this has got to be something real stupid... Have you checked the wires with a good ohmmeter?? High resistance somewhere?? How's the ground connection(s). The strap from the frame to the engine OK?? I ran a ground strap from the bolt that holds the battery ground strap directly to the engine. None of this run around the frame bit. That's my two bits... Good luck! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 From "Kelly Minnick" Tue Jan 10 23:52:18 1995 Date: Tue, 10 Jan 1995 23:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Re: Brake Booster RE:Brake boost pipe On Tue, 10 Jan 1995, Kelly Minnick wrote: > > barrel Webber carb, but the stock LHD brake boost pipe that comes off the > > manifold does not clear the carb. Is there a LR replacement part? Do I just [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > fitting. Bend the pipe, the adapter from LR isn't that cheap. > Rgds, My emmisions page in my LR manual shows the PCV (mini-Frisbee) attaching to this 1/2" port on the carb adaptor. I did bend my stock pipe and it will fit (barely), but I must remove the carb if I ever need to remove the pipe. Also, while I'm at it, the USA (CA?) SIII had a 'cam' on the Zenith throttle shaft that actuated a vacuum retard switch. 1. Is this needed? 2. Where do you get them??? Thanks for all of your help! Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Wed Jan 11 19:19:15 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 19:19:15 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Brakes, 1st 2nd or 3rd pump?? Ok So I forgot who posted the original question. Digest mode does that to ya :-( As for the beast with the pump-upable brakes. If you are sure its not air in the system, check the adjustment carefully. As I understand it L-R's are a little fussy if the shoes get too thin (undersize). My old 2a would have great brakes for the first pedal depression after adjustment.... after that it took several pumps. Turned out a set of (correctly) oversize shoes cured the prob. The following is relevant to snail-cam adjusted shoes only. The other problem i had was putting the rear shoes on back to front (g) This resulted in the shoes "de-adjusting" themselves. Make sure the pins are in good condition as I've also had shoes which jumped off of the adjusting cams on rough roads. Five pumps to a firm pedal really sounds like a volume problem, if its free of air. Might pay to clamp off the individual flexible hoses to track down the problem. You may of course have incorrect sized cylinders. Terri-ann knows all about this (g) To the guy with the Rangie with dicky brakes. I second the "shot master" motion. Sounds like its bypassing internally. Craig, Dream On, "power" from your Diesel (nomex suit on) Diesels have lots of endearing qualities but "power" ???? Hope we can get together at a combined LRRSA and LROV do sometime and discuss this delusion you seem to be under (if the heirachy bother to go through with it :-( ) . Well I'm off home to talk seriously to my L-R about her carby problem, I mean fancy having to clean out the Carbs after only 7 years..... -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From "Mr T.stevenson" Wed Jan 11 10:00:13 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:00:13 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: Bleeding Brakes! I have always found the pedal pumping method of brake bleeding to be very time consuming, particularly on LWB vehicles. Clamping the wheel cylinders so that the pistons can't move (less fluid to change) sometimes works, but I have had best success with the brake bleeding kit made by Gunsons in the UK. The kit consists of a bottle to act as an extra large fluid reservoir which is connected via a sealing cap to the vehicle brake fluid reservoir. The whole system is pressurised using a line to a spare tyre. Keeping an eye on the fluid levels, all you have to do is open each wheel cylinder nipple in turn (with a pipe over it into a jar of clean fluid etc). No pedal pumping, and it's a one man job. You may have to remove some fluid from the vehicle reservoir afterwards since it gets filled to the brim. I hope this info is of some use; it is a lot easier than any other method I have tried. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From John Hong/C/HQ/3Com 11 95 Jan EDT 1902 Date: 11 Jan 95 2:21:51 EDT From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Subject: Baloney sez... Ho boy! Me thinks maloney man used to anal-eyes spy sat fotos for uncle sam...anyway >>From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) >>Subject: HO HO HONG! etc >>As I pound away at my keyboard, there sits in front of me a photo of a red >>topless III 88 with the tallest Korean I've ever seen with a red & green elf's >>hat and a Poinsettia plant in the spare tire (and a wreath on the late IIA >>galvanized grille). Great picture, John. From what I can see it is has a >>standard hood, no top or hoops, some sort of jerry can carrier in the back, >>lamp protectors front & rear, D-rings on the front bumper, NO CORROSION in the >>rear bed where the seatbelt brackets meet the bed, and hub seals that sling >>more oil than Ben Smith's 88 (but less than Steve Denis's 109). My questions I opened up the "dirt road oiling" hub last week thinking I would replace one of them hub oil seals - but seeing as how I just finished dorking with my clutch slave cylinder and 2 rear brake jobs (one drum was a real BEAR) and i was kinda tired I just degreased the surfaces and put some of that fancy silicone sealant and bolted it back on - dry! Later that evening I ran a hot water hose from the kitchen and hosed out the underbody/engine compartment - I musta knocked off 20 pounds of grease/dirt clods! Sigh - one day my own pressure washer! >>for John are: >>1. What is the purpose of the 1" X 1/2" wooden stud bolted/glued to the top of >> your windscreen? Stainless Carriage bolts go thru the wood and I use wing nuts on the other side. Used to hold down my homemade bikini top that flapped like hell above 40 mph - now it holds down the front edge of my plexiglass bikini top that works real nice but looks kinda strange. We've been having record rain fall in this part of CA but this roof has worked fine - I'm actually regretting ordering my canvas top! The plexi is slightly tinted bronze and is definitely transparent - great visibility! >>2. There seems to be a long boxlike object protruding under the LH seat. It >> looks too small for a fuel tank from this angle. I'm puzzled. Hmmm...must be the angle - it is a standard 13 gal fuel tank. >>3. Have you built some sort of storage box in the back? I actually have 3 large tool boxes bolted to a plywood "deck" which makes a compartment with opening covered by the tail gate. >>4. What is that vertical tubular holder welded to your bulkhead just below the >> LH windscreen hinge? A toilet plunger holder? I was hoping you could tell me! It came that way - the joke was you could put a flag into the 4 inch long pipe on each side - just like them embassy limos! Toilet plungers is a divine idea - look for them in next year's holiday greeting card! >>5. What is the pipe frame set up that is fitted into the hoop holes that >> extends 2-4" from the body cappings? A roll bar for the vertically >> challenged? This is the vestigial remnant of my "rear hoop" for my bikini "sail" - now I use it to support the rear edge of the plexi roof. The bars that run fore/aft 3" above the body cappings allow the top of the hoop to be stored 6ish" away from the front hoop holes and also serve as grab handles/tie down points. I've got some small cleats snuck in all around too. >>"BAH HUMVEE"? I like it! From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Wed Jan 11 08:09:35 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:09:35 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: Re: Alternators revisted! >Subject: Alternators >OK...maybe the collective wisdom of the 'net can sort out the mysticisms of >Lucas electrics.... none Sandy I'm not too sure if I will be able to solve your alternator problem, but it sounds very similar to the symptoms I was experiencing. Thanks for the info on ss window channel, I'll see if I can find some at our local marine shops and if not I will be in touch When I took my alternator in for repair they said that said that the stator and the voltage regulator had to be replaced. It worked fine after that, except for the incident before XMAS when a wire broke inside. It is working fine now! Since they have replaced the regulator on your unit and it works fine during testing, I am not too sure what else to advise. The next step would seem to be having the unit tested in the LR, to see if it is in the wiring somewhere. Good Luck! From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Wed Jan 11 08:20:53 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 08:20:53 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: RE: Vacuum brake boost line Kelly I have a SIII with a single weber carb too. When I fitted the carb I replaced the stock boost pipe, with one I made out of copper pipe (easy to bend) and a brass ferrule and brass nut which fit the manifold outlet. I flared the other end of the copper pipe slightly, so the hose would grip when pushed over it. I made a nice bend around the fuel inlet pipe. Works great! Let me know how you like your weber carb, the only problem I have not sorted out yet is adjusting the linkage so that the throttle opens completely when the accelerator is depressed fully. Not really a problem though as the LR runs fine as is! Hope this helps! Richard From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Wed Jan 11 09:26:56 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:26:56 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Alternators Heading off for four days skiing...and I *think* I've solved the alternator problems. The weather forecast is the worst possible though: sunny and warm. Anyway, I started checking resistances in all of the alternator-related wiring last night and found variable resistance in one, signaling a partial internal break (the field wire to the alternator). For all the rest of the terminals, I cut off the existing ones, tinned the wire, then crimped *and* soldered the connection. Unfortunately, the ignition wire to the solenoid *fell* off due to corrosion - that has been soldered back on, with a blob of epoxy to hold the tab in place. That part has not yet been tested. But since I'm headed to the mountains, finding un-level palces to park shouldn't be too hard if it doesn't work. One lesson learned...in replacing wiring, use marine-grade *tinned* multi- strand. Some of the original wires had almost turned to copper dust. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 11 95 Jan EST 1910 Date: 11 Jan 95 10:08:58 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Range Rover fatality It's always tough to have a myth - or illusion - destroyed, but we all have to face reality sooner or later, even as Rover owners... Those of you in Britain, see if you can get hold of a copy of The Guardian of Dec.31 1994 and turn to page 10. There is an absolutely ghastly photo of the remains of a Range Rover that was totally flattened and destroyed in an self-caused accident in which members of a prominent english family, Efrahim Rottman with his two sons and a daughter, were all killed. The crash happened in the french Alps, 50 miles north of Nice, in broad daylight on dry road. At a zig-zag-crossing before a narrow bridge where the vehicle must negotiate a 90-degrees sharp right turn to enter the bridge, the Range Rover had crashed through a steel barrier, plunged 20 meters deep into a ravine and landed on its roof, killing its occupants immediately. The experts are speculating about the causes (high speed has been ruled out for various reasons), and among those pinpointed are supposedly some 4WD - related glitches, e.g. that he may have had the diff locked when negotiating the bridge and lost control trying to disengage it as he accelerated away, which could suddenly release a drivetrain-windup and cause the car to 'jump'. The paper continues to observe that "...a four-wheel skid can be worse than its two-wheel equivalent. A driver can correct more easily with two free, spinning wheels." They point out that in the United States all 4WD vehicles are required to carry a notice saying "This vehicle handles and manoeuvres differently from many passenger cars both on and off road - if you make sudden sharp turns or abrupt manoeuvres you may cause this vehicle to go out of control and roll over and crash. You or your passengers may be seriously hurt". Is this true?? Disillusioned, Stefan 87' RR | 73' S.III 109 Station From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Wed Jan 11 09:55:22 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:55:22 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Brake booster pipe Kelley has found that the Weber carb fouls on the vacuum pipe to the brake booster on the Series III manifold. When I fitted a Holley years ago, I had the same problem. Went to a hydraulic supply shop and got a suitable right angle fitting for four bucks. The only problem is the thread/pitch in the manifold. It's unusual (anf I can't remember what it is), but the shop had no problems finding the correct fitting. It's still in use, though I've gone back to Zenith. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Wed Jan 11 09:30:05 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 09:30:05 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: land rover mailing list admin address down? Over the past couple of days I have gotten a few messages from people trying to subscribe to the lro list after seeing the address on the RoverWeb. Is the address I'm publishing wrong (land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com) or is the listserver acting up??? Please cc Roland Sonnenburg in your response. I have sent this note once to stratus and got this reply: ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to chunnel.uk.stratus.com.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com... User unknown Greg >From: Roland Sonnenburg >Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 02:00:45 -800 [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] >my mail keeps bouncing. Is there a new address? Thanks, >Roland Sonnenburg From Sanna@aol.com Wed Jan 11 10:31:40 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:31:40 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Spare Tank I mounted a second fuel tank on my '70 IIa shortly after I bought it (new). The tank, as it came from Rover, was filled by a large pressurized cap under the driver's seat. It had one-way pressure valve in the cap to let air in as the gas was drawn down. The only other connection was the gas siphon. This setup may have worked well in the mild climate of Solihull, but where I was working at the time (Death Valley, summertime), the tank could not hold the pressure (you CAN fry eggs on the hood of your car - done it) and would bleed fumes into the car. I solved the problem by cutting an old tank siphon off just below the fitting, and bolting it through new holes drilled in the top of the tank. It was very easy to get a good seal since you gan get your hole hand & tools through the filler hole and bolt it tight from the inside. I then ran a vent line that spliced into the main tanks vent to the filler neck (1970 was not a sealed system). It's worked fine ever since. From BwanaE@aol.com Wed Jan 11 10:50:14 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:50:14 -0500 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: more 6-cylinder ramblings For John Hess: Ref. parts availability, I have had no problems obtaining 6-cyl parts thru the previously mentioned British Rovers (800-LD-ROVER). Tom has advised me that the only parts no longer available are waterpump assy. and .040 pistons & rings. Everything else needed from tune-ups to overhauls is available. Speaking of overhauls, an interesting (but sad) story about my "baby". When I saw you at the meet in Palo Alto, she was indeed running sweetly with only 14,000 miles on a major overhaul. Soon afterward however, oil consumption began a steady increase accompanied by a corresponding drop in compression. I finally drove her to Redding for Tom @ British Rovers to pull the head and diagnose. Please note at this point that the previously mentioned overhaul was performed by British Car Specialists of Stockton, Ca. not (to my chagrin) by Tom. The findings: cylinder bores heavily scored and all bottom end bearings showing showing wear reminescent of 100,000 miles. What the hell !!! Tom and Dave(his engine guy) were scratching their heads over this until last week when Dave dismantled my oil pump (as part of the overhaul they're now performing) and found the cause of my engine's woes .... the small steel ball in the oil pressure relief valve was missing ! The spring and plunger were there, but without the ball the bulk of the pump's output was being constantly and uselessly shunted right back into the oil pan... resulting in just enough oil pressure to keep the idiot light out but not enough to prevent excessive and premature engine wear. Epilog: a) Writing a "nice" letter to British Car Specialists in Stockton explaining my opinion of their wokmanship. b) British Rovers is doing a .030 rebore and overhaul. Estimate is $3000. I should have gone to him first. c) First thing to go into my "baby" when I get her back is a shiny new oil pressure gauge. Ah... the things we do for the ones we love ! Regards, Eric. From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Jan 11 08:56:10 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 08:56:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: How the LR Discovery can climb "anything" FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: How the LR Discovery can climb "anything" Several others have already responded to the question on how my Discovery can climb better than the Trooper, but I'll reiterate: In this particular case, it was a combination of driver skills, wheel travel, and possibly the locking transfer case (locking the power 50/50 front/rear). The particular section of hill had deep ruts (no doubt from others getting stuck) so I think the most contributing factor was the wheel travel. I HAVE had 1 wheel off the ground several times, and once I even stopped the truck to see what it looked like while the truck was almost perfectly balanced to where with 1 hand I could make either the left rear, or the right front tire come off the ground. I will attest - VAST wheel travel! Also of note, while in this position, there was NO frame flexing! This really IS ONE TOUGH TRUCK! Designed to last a lifetime. In reference to the "How do they use aluminum and steel together" thread, as for the Land Rover, they isolate the two materials with nylon or plastic. While doing a repair to the Discovery I noticed that a rivet used to attach a steel support bracket to a part of the aluminum body had a plastic or nylon insulator between the two metals. (Threw me off for just a few seconds... "What the... Ohhhhh!!! Cool!!!") Ya just can't rewrite the laws of nature, they must be abided to or you pay the price... Dave.... #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Sanna@aol.com Wed Jan 11 10:59:55 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:59:55 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: News? This may be news to the Navy, but Rover owners have known it all along. In today's Wall Street Journal: LUCAS'S $18.5 MILLION FINE FOR WORK ON NAVY JET UNDERSCORES SAFETY FEARS. It seems that "Lucas (yes our Lucas) is the sole supplier of the gear boxes which provide electrical power and drive hydraulic and oil pumps on the F/A 18". "the Navy conceeds that the parts are lasting only about half as long as required." Facing an additional $100 million in civil fines "Prosecutors and criminal investigators stressed safety problems posed by the Lucas parts, which they said ranged from reports of F/A 18 engine fires and metal shavings found in the plane's oil system to the crash of one aircraft on a combat mission during the 1991 war with Iraq." At least when Lucas poops out on me, I can coast to the side of the road. Oh yes, Lucas also provides these same parts to Boeing for the 757 & 767. Happy flying. From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Wed Jan 11 10:31:27 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:31:27 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Re: land rover mailing list admin address down? >Greg, >You spelt request wrong.You put reqeust.Cause maybe? >Cheers >Mike Rooth none Mike - It sure looks like that is a problem but it appears that it is going on at their end and not mine - see the following transcript - ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com (unrecoverable error) (expanded from: ) I used land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com which at some point is getting expanded to land-rover-owner-reqeust@chunnel.uk.stratus.com which contains the mispelling. Now the question is - where is this expansion happening and is the real correct address land-rover-owner-request@chunnel.uk.stratus.com Thanks for pointing that out. Greg From Jon Humphrey Wed Jan 11 12:25:09 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:25:09 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: land rover mailing list admin address down? Greg, on those transcript of session. The word request is spelled wrong, ie; reqeust Try your lucas spellchecker later Jon From "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" Wed Jan 11 12:52:45 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 12:52:45 -0500 (EST) From: "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" Subject: Series IIa diesel for sale There is a fellow named Jim in Roanoke, Virginia that has a 1967 IIa diesel for sale and I told him I would put it on the list for him. Here is what I saw: Frame seems to be in good shape-didn't examine carefully though Tan paint < 1 year old 33,000K original miles Locally owned since new Standard 15 inch wheels and near original tires (1970) No overdrive No lockable hubs-just solid drive axle Seats recovered recently with light grey cloth All parts seem to be there Needs headliner Needs new floor metal around transmission and on kick plates Needs rougher tires-has probably never been off-road Needs some new gaskets around doors, front vents, etc. Needs side view mirrors for front fenders The body on this vehicle is very straight and I didn't detect much bondo. I started and ran very well. Smokes ALOT! Probably normal for Rover diesel. He is asking $8500 for the vehicle and his number is (703) 776-1563. Out of my price range but I hope another rover lover can pick it up. Later, Stuart Moore 1961 Series II p.s. I'm still looking for an overdrive for my series II! Thanks! From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Jan 11 10:19:32 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 10:19:32 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Cam on Zenith for vacuum retard In message <199501110752.XAA19755@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us>you wrote: > Also, while I'm at it, the USA (CA?) SIII had a 'cam' on the Zenith throttle > shaft that actuated a vacuum retard switch. 1. Is this needed? 2. Where > do you get them??? Thanks for all of your help! From what I was told by a local mechanic, if the factory put it on, its required. For my 72 SIII he specifically was looking for this when he was telling me what was required for 1972. I'm hoping that the exemption for the Zenith will also cover not having the vacuum retard. I do have a bracket with the vacuum switch (I don't know if it works). If I can get the exemption, you can have the switch if you need it. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jan 11 11:09:26 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 11:09:26 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Which one? The hidden door hinges came in on the later 89 RR models. There is more body sway -- the price of a more flexible suspension which is better off road. Swaybars were introduced purely for on-road performance. after being resisted for a long time; they hurt off-road traction regardless of what spin the advertising department puts on them. John Brabyn 89RR From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Wed Jan 11 11:14:25 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 11:14:25 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: DISCO award & congrats at BAJA! I read with trembling hands the FWOTY article in Feb 4-wheeler (we had had the cover at the dealership for over a month) and it was, as expected - outstanding! Two FWOTY's in two years - not bad, Land Rover! I particularly loved the part (as did the testers) where the Disco won over the field in "BEST FIT AND FINISH" (gasp!). The testers remarked that "if someone had told us five years ago that a Land Rover would have the best ventilation system and best fit and finish that we wouldn't have believed him" Way to go, guys! Actually, the article DID mention several references to RTI (ramp travel index), and as expected the DISCO walked away with it (somewhere around 518 RTI as opposed to nearest competitor at around 430). the good news just keeps on commin'... Congrats to Brit team of John Saxton and Graham Roberts who finished the Baja 1000 FIRST IN CLASS (full stock) in a Defender 110 over the works HUMVEES ("bah, humvee!")! Yesseree Bob, them Land Rovers are mighty fine! The scary part of all this great Land Rover news lately is that how long will it take the competition to finally realize just how good (despite the niggles and wiggles) that Rovers really are? Let `em keep giving the Ford freaks their "kleenex dispensers" and we'll settle for "state of the art suspension design and unmatched off-road performance." Yeah, man! regards all Jim roverheadus stonehengian bigfoothumblerato jpappa01@interserv.com From Jon Humphrey Wed Jan 11 14:19:06 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 14:19:06 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Alternators Sandy illuminates; >One lesson learned...in replacing wiring, use marine-grade *tinned* multi- >strand. Some of the original wires had almost turned to copper dust. Sandy, this reminds me of one that happened to me in my old 67 volvo. It must have been the origional coil wire, but while driving through a parking lot I heard a loud bang and the car stopped dead. The coil wire had litteraly *exploded* about one inch above the coil. It also had turned to copper dust, and it must have been too much for it. Never heard of that happening before. later Jon From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Jan 11 11:20:28 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 11:20:28 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank In message <199501100613.WAA27024@owens.ridgecrest.ca.us> "Kelly Minnick" writes: > RE: Fuel Tanks > As I have mentioned before, I am putting a second tank under the driver seat [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > in the tank is offset to the right, what special type of hoses or welded > up filler neck is necessary? Take a standard filler tube for a under seat pertol tank. Cut it in half at the center straight section. Mount one end on the filler neck & the other on the tank, lining the new holes up. Use that to measure the length of tube you will need. I just got a short length of exhaust tubing from Midas. Use hose clamps to clamp the parts together. The hard part is cutting the hole in the side of your car & cutting out the utility box in the seat box. I put a fuel selector in the front of the seat box between the tanks. When the Green Rover gets back on the road, I'm going to have second to rear cross member modified, and place a rear tank in the back, giving my 109 3 tanks. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Wed Jan 11 11:44:29 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 11:44:29 -0800 From: jory@mit.edu (jory bell) Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank >The hard part is cutting the hole in the side of >your car & cutting out the utility box in the seat box. Dremel! >I put a fuel selector >in the front of the seat box between the tanks. I mounted the selector switch on the plate which covers the hole for the RHD handbrake. That way, I minimized irreversible cutting of the seatbox. Also makes servicing the selector easier. jory bell jory@mit.edu From Brad Krohn Wed Jan 11 12:50:40 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 12:50:40 PST From: Brad Krohn Subject: Range Rover fatality Text item: Text_1 >They point out that in the United States all 4WD vehicles are required >to carry a notice saying "This vehicle handles and manoeuvres [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >go out of control and roll over and crash. You or your passengers may >be seriously hurt". My wife's new Suzuki Sidekick (1/3 the price of the Defender she really wanted, but could not afford) has such a sticker on the inside of the driver door. I believe this is less related to 4WD and more related to the high center of gravity. And I think it originated with all of the problems with the Samurai. ======================================================================= "ROVER? WHO DRIVES IT?" Brad_Krohn@ccm.hf.intel.com "That would be telling." -The Prisoner '69 IIA 88" Bug-Eye ======================================================================= From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Wed Jan 11 14:06:42 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 14:06:42 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Compiles statistics on various trucks... FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Compiles statistics on various trucks... Has anyone ever compiled statistics on various 4WD vehicles? I'm looking for information like: Approach angle Departure angle Breakover angle Rollover (side incline) angle Grade of climb Wheel travel (front/rear) Ground clearance (Lowest point and frame) etc... Obviously, this would have to be on stock vehicles since changing anything like tire size, springs, lift, etc. would affect the figures. I would be willing to compile such a list if "you all" would like to send me any known specifications that you have. The compiled list could look something like this: VEHICLE ------ App.-- Dep.- Brakeover- rollover- % climb- clearance- frame ht. LR series 1-3 -- xx --- xx ---- xx ------- xx ------ xx ------ x.x ---- xx.x Toyota FJ40 --- xx --- xx ---- xx ------- xx ------ xx ------ x.x ---- xx.x Trooper (80-90)- xx --- xx ---- xx ------- xx ------ xx ------ x.x ---- xx.x K5 Blazer.... etc... etc... If this exists, where can I get a copy? Thanks, #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jan 11 15:52:51 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 15:52:51 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: 4-wheeler mag: Rovers galore Hear hear to your remarks Morgan. I subscribe to the said magazine and found the last issue to be an improvement on the usual fare. To thr credit they awarded the Four Wheeler of the Year in 1989 to the Range Rover (a model and year, of course, dear to my heart), using even more gushing and hyperbolic language (the RR dished its nearest competitor by 1,711 points, winning by huge margins in every performance category. (including first in off-road performance by 658 points, with comments like "killer" and "it walked the hills like it had feet"). Aside from these occasional exposures to Land Rover technology, however, the magazine does tend to revert to the traditional Big Foot philosophy for long periods. I too objected to the treatment of the Series LR owner who just wanted to contact other owners through the magazine. Still, hopefully a continuous process of education might eventually make an impact! I have found that generally their reviews of Rovers have been suitably adulatory, but they have ignored us in all other sections of the magazine (projects, parts, etc). I recently sent in a photo for their "Reader's Rigs" column just for fun since I've never seen a RR or Discovery featured there (they did have a Defender recently as well as the "Proper" Land Rover alluded to earlier). Keep up the good work, and maybe they'll realize we exist! Cheers John Brabyn Mill Valley, Ca 89RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jan 11 15:54:52 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 15:54:52 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat? John From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jan 11 16:07:19 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:07:19 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Four-wheeler of the year Good point Granville -- actually the Ramp Travel Index was part of the test and the Discovery scored 588 versus the others all around 400 plus or minus. This puts it in the same category as the Defender on this test, but of course not up to Range Rover standards (706 for the 94 SWB model). One of the things the testers all acknowledged was that the other trucks in the test all had street tuned suspensions, rarely fitted to off-road. One said the Disco was "the only real 4WD in the test" while another said the Chevy "crawls great as long as the trail is flat" (!). Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jan 11 16:24:51 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:24:51 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Range Rover fatality I'm interested in the comments about skids -- I've noticed what seems to me an excessive tendency for the tail to wag on gravel bends (at my no doubt reckless speeds) and have occasionally wondered whether the applied correction would work in time. Generally, the vehicle acts like its on rails when your foot is on the gas, but seems to have a propensity for skids with it off. Does anyone else have any similar or different impressions?? John Brabyn 89RR From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Wed Jan 11 16:27:50 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 16:27:50 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: How the LR Discovery can climb "anything" It should be noted also that suspension softness/stiffness affects traction even well before the limits of wheel travel are reached on uneven/rutted hills etc. John Brabyn From "Kelly Minnick" Wed Jan 11 16:42:18 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 16:42:18 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank > Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat? > John none Can't be much worse than a Honda 90 trail bike! Just a lot more fuel! Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Wed Jan 11 17:30:52 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 17:30:52 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank In message <9501112354.AA04707@skivs.ski.org> John Brabyn writes: > Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat? > John none 88s & 109 two door models come with one under the right seat from the factory. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Morgan Hannaford Wed Jan 11 18:02:16 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 18:02:16 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Extra Gas tank I've got an extra gas tank in the rear of my 88", in front of the rear cross member. I don't know where it is from, it certainly isn't a Rover tank. It holds 15 gallons and fills via a small metal door bolted to the bed; just lift the rubber mat and fill-'er-up. It doesn't hang down very far and a steep departure would likely hit the tow hitch before the double skinned tank. I have an electronic switch on the dash, over the oil pressure guage, to select tanks. Good thing too my, 10 gallon, passenger seat tank was leaking pretty bad. Gas comes out the rear right seam, from under the protector skin so I can't figure out how to patch it. Any suggestions? Thanks, Morgan H. U.C.B. From FHYap@aol.com Wed Jan 11 22:16:19 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 22:16:19 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Misc Re: 1. Trailer Life: The SUV is used to pull the trailers, not to be hauled on the back of a motorhome. While I was in Australia I noticed quite a few RR pulling trailers-but none here in the USA. 2. Vehicle for sale: I would be careful about bragging about what one does with his/her vehicle if it is for sale. Would you really want to buy a vehicle that spent most of its life off-road - unless you got a really good price? It seems to me that you would want to buy one that didn't spend its life off-road so you can be the one who takes it there! 3. Discovery RTI: Four Wheeler notes on page 37: "its [Discovery] RTI score was about 50 percent better than anything else." 4. Four Wheeler also makes a big deal of a female owning a 4x4. (See page 14.) It seems to be that just as many females as males buy/drive 4x4s. Except for LR series X, Defenders, or highly (visibly) modified 4x4s, I notice a significant amount of women driving SUVs. A female acquaintance even went to great lengths to get a manual Grand Cherokee. (It wasn't easy to find) In the SF Bay Area, there even seems to be more women driving RRs and about an equal amount driving Discoverys. From pparsons@ppsol.com (Peter C. Parsons) Wed Jan 11 21:03:52 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 95 21:03:52 MST From: pparsons@ppsol.com (Peter C. Parsons) Subject: Famous Road trips Circa 1922 Hey Roverites, I know this is off on a tangent, but .... A year or two ago, I saw an epispode of "Wings" on the discovery channel (in the U.S.) that discussed one of, or the first round the world airplane trip by U.S. Navy planes in about 1922. It was a very famous flight, and was well recorded (Was it Dolittle, or ??). Anyway during this show they mentioned that while in India, the flight ran into a woman from the U.S. who was quite a young adventurer. She was in the process of DRIVING around the world. They showed a few pictures of her meeting the pilots, and other pictures of her with locals and oxen, 'pulling her car' through LARGE mud puddles. I believe they said she eventually completed the trek, taking about 3 years. Does anyone know who she was, and if there is anything written on her travels. I have hit the library a couple times looking - unsuccessfully. I have not tried to contact the makers of the 'wings series' to get a transcript, but if anyone happened to know how to do that, I would try to track it down that way. Anyway, what a trip. I get jumpy still heading out for the day in my Disco, with maps. altimiter, GPS, CD ROM player, and who knows what other toys/comforts. I'd really like to learn more about that trip. Thanks, -Peter Parsons pparsons@ppsol.com '94 disco, graphic not available today :-( From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jan 11 23:07:27 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:07:27 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Brake Booster Kelly.... > > > I have a SIII with a vacuum brAke boost. I am switching over to the > > > single > > > barrel Webber carb, but the stock LHD brake boost pipe that comes off ----snip---- > > Many Land Rovers without the manifold drilled used a fitting > > coming off the adapter plate between the Zenith and the manifold. > > My adapter I am using for the Weber on the 88" is of this type, > > while on the 109" is is the straight adapter without vaccuum > > fitting. Bend the pipe, the adapter from LR isn't that cheap. ----snip---- > My emmisions page in my LR manual shows the PCV (mini-Frisbee) attaching > to > this 1/2" port on the carb adaptor. I did bend my stock pipe and it will > fit (barely), but I must remove the carb if I ever need to remove the > pipe. Here's an idea... You can hopefully find some other (non-Rover) fittings for the port on the manifold. If so, just replace the original fitting and hose. > Also, while I'm at it, the USA (CA?) SIII had a 'cam' on the Zenith > throttle [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari > Ridgecrest, CA Haven't a clue where you can find the vacuum switch. Now, do you need it? It *is* part of the exhaust emmisions control.. and so was the carb you replaced. The distributer is unique (I think) to emmisions controlled vehicles and with the vacuum switch is supposed to retard the ignigtion when the throttle is closed at high speeds. (That's what the book says!) There was one on my SerIII when I bought it, but the switch was all but destroyed. Since then I've changed the carb and distributer... but then I don't live in California.. From what I've been reading, whether you need it or not depends on if the State of California says you need it or not!! :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jan 11 23:09:06 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:09:06 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank John Brabyn, proud owner of a Range Rover, questions... > Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat? none Gee, John... why not? Kelly is mounting a second tank on a SerIII 88 which already has a tank under the seat (the standard fuel tank). [Sarcastic mode on] Remember John... these are Land Rovers! Not some wimpy 4WD with safety in mind. If your gonna blow up, do it in Style! Sit right on the fuel.. Just don't eat beans!! [Sarcastic mode off] Sorry John... I couldn't resist! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Jan 11 23:29:57 1995 Date: Wed, 11 Jan 1995 23:29:57 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Extra Gas tank Morgan... Your extra fuel tank in the rear of the 88 sounds interesting.. One question.. Where is your muffler?? As far as patching your main tank... The problem is that over the years, dirt and moisture have worked into the space between the tank and outer shell. To do a proper repair you would have to remove the outer shell, patch the tank and replace the shell.. Sounds like a lot of work. You can *try* using the sealant stuff you pour into the tank. The good stuff is a three-part process.. First a wash step, then a chemical etch and then the sealer. It will seal the tank OK, but if there is still a problem between the tank and shell, it will leak again. (Mine lasted a year before it started leaking.) The sealant *is* cheaper than a new tank... Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL lanFrom "Keith Coman" Thu Jan 12 10:00:57 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:00:57 GMT+0200 From: "Keith Coman" Subject: New Zealand Land Rovers -- Advice please! Howzit all, The family and I will be moving to take up residence in New Zealand in March this year. As a long term Landie fanatic, I'll be looking acquire an example of "The Best Four By Four By Far" as soon as funds and opportunity permit. Without overburdening the patience of any folk in the group having direct experience of the Landie situation in NZ, I'd be very grateful for some general advice along the following lines: 1. Very average prices for a "good condition" LWB Safari Series 2 or 3. 2. The best area to go shopping. Auckland? South Island? No real difference? 3. Any particular "gotchas" related to buying a Landie in NZ (e.g. most having been used to dump boats in salt water)? Thanks in advance! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From Roland Sonnenburg Thu Jan 12 00:50:16 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 00:50:16 -0800 (PST) From: Roland Sonnenburg Subject: How good really? I am new to this list, and potentially about to be new to the world of land rovers, although I have been dreaming about them for years. I have millions of questions as I try to decide what my next vehicle will be, but for now just a couple, sorry if they are a tad ignorant. My main question is how good are they off road really. They are so legendary that it is hard to determine their real world worthiness. Everyone just seems to know, except me. I do SAR, and tend to play hard, and am looking for a vehicle that will get me home. While LR charm is unquestionable, I just need to know how they compare when it comes to clearance, suspension, sideslopes, traction, etc, to any of the more traditional 4x4s (Cherokee, Yukon, Bronco, pickup. . .) Assuming I had ARBs, decent tires and suspension, and I tried, which vehicle would be winched more? Or am I missing the point entirely? The actuall LR that I am considering is a beautiful (no rust, nice looking frame, etc) LWB Station Wagon. I am not sure of my nomenclature, but it was originally built in 65, and seems to have been completely rebuilt in 92. It has a four cylinder, which I would be inclined to replace with an eight (if I do you will all get lots more questions!) BTW, what would seem like a fair price to you guys? I would be using it as a daily driver, SAR vehicle, toy, transport all over the country, etc. Please, any thoughts would be very much appreciated! Roland From "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Thu Jan 12 09:30:00 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 09:30:00 PST From: "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Subject: FW: Info wanted. ---------- From "Mr T.stevenson" Thu Jan 12 10:34:43 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:34:43 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: Range Rover safety etc. There have been a couple of articles in the UK papers recently regarding the safety of Range Rovers in traffic accidents; the Alpine accident and the one just before Christmas where the vehicle crossed a motorway central reservation resulting in the deaths of the occupants. I recently attended a lecture given by a Leicestershire police Road Traffic Accident Investigations officer. During questions afterwards, he was asked which vehicle he regarded as providing the best protection for its occupants in the event of a crash. Although he would not name a make of vehicle, he did say that in his opinion a vehicle built on a separate chassis, for example an off-road vehicle, offered the best protection. The chassis prevents intrusion into the passenger compartment, and the height of the chassis above the ground means that it will slide over the top of another vehicle in the event of a collision. In the car park later, I noticed that he drove away in a Range Rover. You may draw your own conclusions from this. With regard to vehicle handling in skids and to really appreciate Newton's laws of motion, a bit of practise in an (empty) icy car park can also prove to be very enlightening. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Carl Byrne Thu Jan 12 11:12:20 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:12:20 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery Can anybody add to an 'raging' dispute between my brother and I? He owns a '94 Cherokee Limited and I own a '95 spec Discovery (my second following one Defender). He slates my Discovery for just about everything - fit, performance, comfort etc. I haven't really had a good look at his Jeep but have noticed that it is dripping with gagets thankfully (in my opinion) lacking in the Discovery. Give me something to say to him - or is the Jeep so much better than the Discovery as he says. Please help me defend our good name. Cheers Carl UK Owner of Discovery and 1949 Series I. Dr.Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From William Caloccia Thu Jan 12 06:41:25 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 06:41:25 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: plunged vs rolled > the remains of a Range Rover that was totally flattened and destroyed in > plunged 20 meters deep into a ravine and landed on its roof, killing its hmmm. Unless I've forgotten all my physics, that works out to be about something to be something like 30m/s downward (63mph) when it hit bottom. That is a tremendous amount of force. When we took the '72 pontiac 440 firebird for a swim in Vermont, it only fell about 3m off the bridge, and the rock left a dimple about 10" deep a foot to the left of my head. The momentum from the roll-over caused the engine to twist the frame of the car lengthwise. Which of the following things does your Rover permanent 4wd owner's manual tell you not to do at the same time: > in broad daylight on dry road. > may have had the diff locked From Mike Rooth Thu Jan 12 12:07:53 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 12:07:53 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Range Rover Safety etc To add to what Tom has said,its perhaps no coincidence either that Leicestershire Police also operate two Land Rover 110s (both V8,I think),at least the Loughborough lot do,which is part of the same thing.Also that the Range Rover,and latterly the Discovery,are widely used by UK Police forces for a number of duties,incuding motorway patrolling. The local fire service also have a Defender 110,which replaced a six wheeled abomination (also Land Rover)which no-one wanted to drive because it had a mind of its own,and didnt want to depart from the straight and narrow.This is apparently common with six wheel conversions. The 110 suffered from the "not me,chief" sydrome as well,but for a totally different reason.The power steering was *too* good.There was,I was told no "feel" at all to the steering.In fact the fireman I was talking to about it said he'd rather have my 11A.I was a little too slow,I should have taken him up on it!I reckoned there must be something that could be done about it.He said they had taken it to the local franchised dealer with no result.I reckoned if they contacted Land Rover that they'd have a better result.Whether they did or not,I dont know,but something *was* done,with the result that now *everyone* wants to drive it!The feedback from the steering is apparently now jusr right,and they reckon its the best vehicle they've ever had. This is a 200Tdi. The problem with UK centre crash bars on motorways is that they seem to be set up for the average family saloon.As I understand it,the idea is to prevent a vehicle from getting into the opposite carriageway but also to stop it bouncing back into its own carriageway.I assume the idea is to get it to scrape alomg the barrier until it stops.As far as I can see,a runaway truck would simply go over it,and the same applies to just about any 4X4,to perhaps a slightly lesser degree.This is due to the fact that the girders are set low down. Suffice it to say that Richard Branson,who crashed *his* Range Rover, maintains that the vehicle saved his life.He reckoned that in any other vehicle he would have died.He subsequently ordered a goddly number of them to use as airport shuttles. As for Sefans comment about a four wheel skid being more dangerous than a two wheel one,I'm not quite sure what the paper meant.In fact,I'd hazard a guess that the reporter knew bugger all about it as well. They dont usually impress me with their technical expertise. With a beam axled vehicle,a four wheel *drift* is possible,whether all four wheels are powered or not.Again,as Tom rightly says,an empty icy car park will prove most instructive and enjoyable.I've never managed a four wheel drift with independant front suspension only, but used to thoroughly enjoy the manoeuvre in my 1931 MG.I hasten to add at about four in the morning,with *no* other traffic about,and a nice greasy road surface.Ok,I know,a Range Rover it wasnt,but the effect was there,and provided suitable intelligence is applied,I'm sure it can be done,and safely. That said,there are bound to be situations that even a Range Rover cant get you out of.Dropping off a cliff is one,and meeting a forty tonner head on is another.But I still reckon that by and large you are safer in any of Land Rover's products than you are in anybody elses,and that goes Series 1 onwards.BUT! I cant say I like the idea of the proposed monocoque version. Sorry for the length of this,I didnt mean to ramble on *quite* so much! Cheers Mike Rooth From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Jan 12 08:44:45 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 08:44:45 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Carl Defends His Disco Carl asked: none Can anybody add to an 'raging' dispute between my brother and I? He owns a '94 Cherokee Limited and I own a '95 spec Discovery (my second following one Defender). He slates my Discovery for just about everything - fit, performance, comfort etc. Give me something to say to him - or is the Jeep so much better than the Discovery as he says. Please help me defend our good name. none Carl, Don't say anything. In 2 years ask him how many times it's been in the shop for other than routine maintenance. In 5 years ask him what he's going to do about all that rust on the firewall in those difficult to reach places (and how many times it has stranded him). In 10 years ask him whatever happened to that old Jeep he used to own. In 20 years sell him your Disco and buy a new one. Baloney maloney@wings.attmail.com P.S. - You could ask him how he would engage his front hubs (assuming part time 4wd) if he gets stuck in 2wd. Or, you could take him 4 wheeling. From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Jan 12 12:47:20 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 12:47:20 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery > Can anybody add to an 'raging' dispute between my brother and I? He > owns a '94 Cherokee Limited and I own a '95 spec Discovery (my second [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > Discovery as he says. > Please help me defend our good name. Hell, it's easy -- ask him to go with you to one of wales' off-road centres and go round the course. the Discovery will end up pulling the (stuck) Cherokee at every turn. I agree that the Cherokee has lots of fancy gadgets and plush leather seats, but the ride-comfort and traction of the discovery are vastly superior off the road. ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do optimists find it full of disappointments. | it in the mud. From Jon Humphrey Thu Jan 12 09:29:38 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 09:29:38 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: New Zealand Land Rovers -- Advice please! Keith, there was quite a long discussion a while back on New Zeland Land Rovers. It included prices, condition, availability, etc. It seemed to be for the benefit of those persons wishing to import LR's to the U.S. Perhaps the person who was sending this information will see your request and send you some information. I don't remember the name. Anybody else still have this info? You lucky dog, I would love to go to NZ. later Jon From Carl Byrne Thu Jan 12 15:29:53 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:29:53 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Overdrive and Series I Does anybody have experience of fitting an overdrive to a 1600cc 80" Series One. I drive a 1949 80" and would like to fit an O/D to reduce engine speed. However I don't think that the engine has the necessary torque to take full advantage of the device - I would be constantly changing gear except on motorways where I rarely drive it anyway. Any views? In addition, apart from Superwinch does any other company make O/Ds? Toro (made for Bearmach) are no more and the batch that Sanatana made were all recalled last year.Dr.Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From Carl Byrne Thu Jan 12 15:38:31 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 15:38:31 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Discovery 300TDI 1995 model Anybody 'listening' out there owns one of these (must be the '95 spec model)? I have a few queries with mine and I would like to compare notes with another owner? Can anybody help? Regards Carl Dr.Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From Jon Humphrey Thu Jan 12 10:50:33 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:50:33 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank Hey John, As Mr.Ralph Cramden so tactfully used to say to Alice. "You wanna go to da MOOON--ALICE?" A well placed gas tank enhances your chances. Land Rovers in Space Jon >Are you sure it's a good idea to put a gas tank under the seat? none From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jan 12 11:28:48 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:28:48 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Leaky Tanks Rover's have always had a general incontinence problem. Gas, oil, water, you name it. As far as your leaky gas tank goes, I've had to repair my tanks many times during a 25 year life of sometimes heavy off-road use. The Rover tanks are soldered, and very rough off-roading would crack the seams from time to time. To repair I would drain & drop the leaky tank and then take it to a radiator repair shop. They would clean it, fill it with nitrogen (don't want them to blow up), unsolder the second skin, then re-solder the seams of the tank, and re-assemble. My last tank repair, however, was after Lulubelle (IIa) had been sitting for about 4 years. The tanks weren't leaking, but the gas had turned to black sludge and the inside of the tank was foul. This time they cleaned & etched the inside of the tank, and then coated it with some kind of epoxy. I understand that this is not a forever cure, since the epoxy bond is dependent on the condition of the metal it bonds to. This is basically a way of burying the problem under a layer of plastic. Good Luck. From Jimmy Patrick Thu Jan 12 11:37:05 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:37:05 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: Prince of Darkness (chapter 4) The saga continues. With regards to my Land-Rover not turning off with the key switch. I got out a trusty test lamp and checked the power to the hot lead of the alternator. The key switch works, as long as the engine is not running. When the engine is running, the switch ceases to work. (With the engine off and the switch off, no light. Switch on=light. So far, so good. But once the engine is running, there is always a light.) I can't imagine what the problem might be. I have a new switch here but it is a bit different and I don't want to replace the old switch until I determine it is the problem. Since the switch works with the engine not running, I think the switch works. Maybe the alternator is providing power directly to the coil somehow. Since the alternator was hooked up wrong in the first place (no charging light) it could be completely wrong. Looks like this Saturday could be spent chasing a bunch of little red wires. Jimmy Land-Rover; it's not just a vehicle, it's an adventure. -- -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Jan 12 10:59:44 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 10:59:44 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Ramp Travel Index Sheesh! Sorry. I'm so embarrassed. 8*{ I made the comment, regarding the Four-Wheeler-of-the-Year article, that no mention was made of Ramp Travel Index (RTI). Several of you have been kind (really) enough to point out to me that it was right there in front of my eyes (such as they are). I see it now and don't know how I missed it before. It was in the data table, alright. Not hard to see why it was not mentioned in the text, as it was rather embarrassing to the other vehicles. ;~] But look at the comparison of front and rear overhangs... I'd sure like to see the RTI on a Mercedes Unimog, with its 15" of wheel travel front and rear and its flexi-frame. Some pictures I've seen make it look like it can cross-axle to about 90 degrees! That ability, along with its 20" wheels, portal axles, front and rear diff locks, and ultra-low gearing (I'm talking measure-the-speed-in-feet-per-hour kind of low) make it a rock crawler that probably has no equal. Still rather have a Land-Rover, though, most of the time. 'Mogs are not too fun to drive on the road, so I hear. I read about one with 18 speeds forward which still had a top speed of only 46 mph! Basically a tractor. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From "Walter C. Swain" Thu Jan 12 11:48:42 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 11:48:42 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Land Rover Boutiques Here's one for the rugged individualist-- Our local Public Radio station this morning carried an item about Land-Rover setting up Rover Boutiques in their dealerships to sell Rover-related paraphernalia. Needless to say, they had a lot of fun making comparisons with LL Bean and Eddie Bauer. It also helps explain why we've seen reports of the Land Rover Logo Police making raids on unauthorized sellers of Rover-badged stuff. The Beemer crowd is hot on the scent of untapped PROFITS. In Sacramento, the local Cadillac dealership has taken on Rovers, since the supply of 4X4 Cadillacs has been very small. It'll be interesting to see if Cadillac comes up with its own "line-extension". It boggles the imagination. Walt Swain, 1967 109 Safari SW From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Thu Jan 12 15:16:44 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 15:16:44 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Good luck with the rebuild of your 2.6. I have a lot of 2.6 parts and over 12 engines. Call (804)421-3504 of net me if you need anything. I have 1 spin on adapter left. R&D From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Thu Jan 12 15:31:03 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 15:31:03 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Morgan Wrote: "gas comes out the rear right seam... any suggestions on how to patch it... or something to that effect" Morgan Old Stick: Spend the coin and buy a new tank. A lot of them get patched, but few are fixed long term. Its common knowledge that patched tanks will eventually leak (in most cases). Not to insult you and with all due respect, don't pit a welder near it. I know a guy who had a tank blow up once that had not been drained and open for several years before a repair attempt was made. Jared Silbersher had a spare tank (under seat 12 gal.) that he let me have, but prospective buyer didn't want. He will sell it and I could ship it. Jareds number is (914) 764-5348 (NY). Good luck, and would like to more about your non-original rear. R&D From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Jan 12 12:39:00 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 12:39:00 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank OK you guys -- I've now learned that the proper place for fuel tanks is under the seat... John From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Jan 12 12:48:17 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 12:48:17 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery The only thing a Cherokee has over a Discovery is performance on the road due to its bantam weight. All the rest is utter fiction. John Brabyn 89RR From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Thu Jan 12 15:50:19 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 15:50:19 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Hello Everyone: Several days age I asked about regalia (Land Rover Club: grill badges, t-shirts, and window stickers). Got one response fron Ottawa Valley member: Dixon. Thanks Dixon. Anyone else belong to a club with regalia items? Please take the time to respond! Thanks, R&D From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Thu Jan 12 12:56:16 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 12:56:16 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Ramp Travel Index Another ststistic that was interesting and not mentioned in the text, just tabulated at the end, was the breakover angles -- all the US trucks in the 17 to 19 degree range and the Discovery at 32. John Brabyn From "TeriAnn Wakeman" Thu Jan 12 13:32:33 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 13:32:33 -0800 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank In message <9501122039.AA23685@skivs.ski.org> John Brabyn writes: > OK you guys -- I've now learned that the proper place for fuel tanks > is under the seat... > John none John, your getting close. If you have a 88 or 109 two door its under the seat. If you have a 109 4 door its under the bed at the rear. Keep working on it you almost have it! ;*) ;*) ;*) ;*) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards From Steve Firth Fri Jan 13 00:06:29 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:06:29 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Re:Range Rover fatality >It's always tough to have a myth - or illusion - destroyed, but we all have >to face reality sooner or later, even as Rover owners... >[snip] >"This vehicle handles and manoeuvres >differently from many passenger cars both on and off road [snip] This is absoutely true, and the Rottman incident is just one of several reported recently. Others include the famous Richard Branson acciden and one in my home area where a man watched his family die in the rear view mirror as his wife following in a Range Rover hopped the barrier into the face of oncoming traffic. I think it's naive in the extreme to expect a vehicle in the 1 to 2 tonne range range with immense wheel articulation and permanent 4WD to handle like a 750kg road car. Four wheel drives need a different approach to driving and some experience to drive at the limit. The trouble is, many drivers don't even seem to know they are at the limit. In each of the cases above the accidents happened at speed, in treacherous weather and with drivers who were possibly expecting a Range Rover to handle like a Merc saloon. It is suggested that Rottman either died of a heart attack or was fiddling with the diff. lock while negotiating a bend. In the other cases, the drivers were above the speed limit and got into situations where they tried to swerve in a vehicle not suited to the manoeuvre. Steve Firth, 1981 SIII 109" Landrover Safari. From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Jan 12 22:53:53 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 22:53:53 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Range Rover safety etc. Tom Stevenson recommends... > With regard to vehicle handling in skids and to really appreciate > Newton's laws of motion, a bit of practise in an (empty) icy car park > can also prove to be very enlightening. Took my SerIII out for a "spin" on a frozen lake a couple of winters ago.. Lots of fun!! 8*} Until the local constabulary showed up on a snowmobile and informed me I was being "reckless"... :( The nerve! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Jan 12 22:53:41 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 1995 22:53:41 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: How good really? Roland... First... I'll plead ignorance... what exactly is "SAR"??? As to Land Rovers and off-road... there are two things to consider... The vehicle *and* the driver. You can have "the best" off road vehicle in the world, but if you don't know how to drive it, you might as well walk!! Here's a point to consider. You can take a stock Land Rover with decent off-road tires and go just about anywhere. *Most* other 4WD vehicles will probably need to have suspension modifications at the very least to do the same. Why would you want to replace the stock 4 cylinder with a V8?? Granted, the extra power is nice but not always needed off-road. A winch is probably the best all-around accessory investment you can make. Great to have when you *do* get stuck (it happens) and great to have when you need to move something nasty and you can't get traction. Locking diffs are nice but most of us have survived without them. If you are considering using your (future) Rover for daily transportation then ask yourself how mechanically competent you feel you are. The Series Land Rovers are pretty simple to work on, but if you aren't comfortable with doing things like pulling off your brake drums (to clean out the mud) or replacing axel half-shafts after they snap then you should reconsider this madness!! Or find a good mechanic.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Thu Jan 12 20:04:59 1995 Date: Thu, 12 Jan 95 20:04:59 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell & I'm not going to take it anymore... I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore... I'm really getting tired of the press sounding sirens, bells, strobe lights, ripping out hunks `o hair everytime a 4WD vehicle is involved in an incident where there is loss of life. All of a sudden, these vehicles are lethal, unstable, unpredictable, deadly, skitty, ad nauseum... What about the vast majority of auto fatalities that occur each year in essentially low-slung sedans? What gives when a couple is flattened; their brains launched out the tops of their heads when their Honda Civic blams into a bridge abutment at 80 mph? Why don't we all of a sudden hear that all vehicles that weigh under 2500 pounds are unsafe for human consumption? It really is all so ludicrous. Any vehicle, LAND ROVERS included, will reach its limits in handling and occupant protection. When these limits are breached, shit happens. If a high center of gravity vehicle is flung into an off ramp with acute angles at an excessive rate of speed, then it clearly is possible to roll. Likewise in a normal auto - it is liable to go out of control via under/oversteer inputs from reactionary driver, or through skid... So, what's the hubbub, bub? If a "bullet-proof" Range Rover is rear-ended or front ended by a truck with several times its mass - a nasty outcome should be no surprise - yes, damn it, its simply physics... I've really had it. Today there was some dork on "Good Morning America" who was lamenting that the Land Rover Discovery and Defender 90 displayed (all of a sudden with no empirical data) the worst stability of any SUV sold in America! Can you dig this? Another asshole shooting from the hip. We continually sell the Discovery on the basis of its relative stability as compared with similar vehicles. I routinely get people at a 33 degree sidehill in a Defender 90 expressly to demonstrate just how stable the 90 really is. There are far, far, far, more fatalities involving "normal-height vehicles" than there are 4WDs. I'm really pissed off - it is totally misleading to a basically unassuming public - they deserve better. Much as we deride the competition, even they deserve better. Remember the 60-minutes torpedoeing of the Jeep CJ-7? A basically decent off-roader. A couple of yahoos rolled one over for the cameras and bang - unsafe! As a result (good for Land Rover sales) we now have the woeful Jeep Wrangler - a truly ghastly contrivance. Audi almost went bankrupt because of a handful of clumsy owners and a bevy of hungry lawyers. As a result - interlocks for all of us stupid dolts who can't tell the difference between the brake pedal and the throttle. Wow, man! Please do all of us a favor - next time someone challenges your Land Rover as unsafe or unstable, suggest that they fling their whatever into a tight corner at 60 mph. I just can't believe that this crap is still going on - rather, I can believe it. As long as America consumes crappola from an over-eager, ratings-conscious, crusading media, then we can expect loose cannon from any corner, at any time. Well, I hope that Land Rover's lawyers can beat up CBS's lawyers. And another thing... We have managed to procure an additional Aluminum hardtop Conniston Green DEF90 at Rover central. Any interest leave me a message at my email or at landline 508-650-8822. The last one hung around for about a week. Take care. regards Jim roverheadus pissedoffbigtimum mediadorkus jpappa01@interserv.com From "T.F. Mills" Fri Jan 13 00:07:24 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 00:07:24 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery Carl Byrne asks: < Can anybody add to an 'raging' dispute between my brother and I? He < owns a '94 Cherokee Limited and I own a '95 spec Discovery (my second [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] < Discovery as he says. < Please help me defend our good name. Funny you should ask. "4-Wheel and Off-Road" last Sept. did precisely such a comparison. Actually it was a Grand Cherokee (is that the same as a Limited?) Their conclusion: "this race was neck and neck with a classic photo finish. The way we see it, the grand Cherokee wins by a nose--that nose being the difference between its 5.2 liter V8 and Discovery's 3.9; the Jeep's greater cargo space; and the intangible comfort factor--somehow we just fit into the Jeep a little better. Viewed from a slightly different angle--safety features, convenience amenities and status-symbol panache--the photo finish would've gone the Discovery's way. We can't recall the last time a duke-out ended this close to a draw." They are identical in gas mileage, but the mag gave the Jeep the edge in off-road capabilities. Thought you might From Mike Rooth Fri Jan 13 9:27:03 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 9:27:03 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Ramp Travel Index Granville, Have you ever wondered how the makers of such an excellent vehicle as the Unimog,could ever produce anything as horrible as the G-Wagen?Wierd,isnt it? Cheers Mike Rooth From "Mr T.stevenson" Fri Jan 13 11:49:52 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 11:49:52 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: Range Rover safety etc. This issue of safety seems to be a hot topic at the moment. Does anybody know the actual figures? I understand that that the UK Government recently published some tables of data concerning the crashworthiness of a range of vehicles, against considerable vociferous resistance from various car manufacturers. Has anyone seen this list? Where do the rovers appear in it? I understand that in the US this data has been available for some time; perhaps someone could shed some light on this. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Mike Rooth Fri Jan 13 14:39:50 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 14:39:50 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Range Rover safety etc. Not seen the crashworthiness figures Tom,no,but having seen them,would you beleive them?I'm afraid I would take them as more of a list of contributors to party funds in order of magnitude than anything useful.Whilst I would agree that the way that the tests are carried out are better than nothing(just),how long has the human frame behaved like a dummy?Unless,of course,the tests are carried out assuming that the occupants of the vehcle were all catatonic.Happens all the time,doesnt it?What I *would* like to see,is some sort of document (preferably not a statistical list,you can take stats any way you like)of the effect on vehicles in real life situations.Like,you dont often hear of anyone sailing blithely into a crash situation without trying to take some sort of avoiding action,which modifies the "head on into a brickwall" scenario considerably,with the effects varying from"phew,that was close" to "ouch....". As recently in a local paper."Mrs.........in a Fiat is in hospital in a serious condition,Mr.........driving a blue Land Rover was unhurt". I must admit,I'm deeply sceptical about the worth of the RRL,they have shown a very "IBM" attitude in the past"We say so,therefore it must be a fact".And any govt dept can be told to do "research" to show that so-and-so is true. The police,among others must have on file accident reports which, given the right environment,could correlated into a report showing the resistance of various vehicles to damage in real situations (which is where it matters,after all).In fact,I wouldnt mind betting that some vehicles already have a reputation amongst those worthies for good/bad crash resistance.But you went to the lecture,did the guy say anyhting along those lines,or was he being Politically Correct? I would be interested to know. Cheers Mike Rooth From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Fri Jan 13 08:15:40 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 08:15:40 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: Disco vs. Cheroke... no comparison! FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco vs. Cheroke... no comparison! I too have a Disco, and friends with Cherokes. SHEESH! How could these two possibly be compared??? Is your brother INSANE? (No offense.) Was he unloved as a child? Did your parents repeatedly drop him on his head???? Tell you what you do, meet him in front of the state mental institution (where he no doubt lives) and both of you with your respected vehicles (using the term loosely in the Cheroke's case.) play "follow the leader". I WOULD suggest though, that YOU play the leader, otherwise you'll most likely get bored, going where the Cheroke goes. Some others have commented already, but compare the brakeover angle, the Disco's is around TWICE that of the Cheroke, compare wheel travel, awwww heck! ANYTHING!!! Bottom line, the Disco WORKS! Where the tires hit the trail is the REAL test! Yeah, you'll probably hear things like: "well, your tires are better", or "the weight difference makes it", or "mom always DID love you more!"... Also, like another mentioned, over time, 2 years (how many times repaired), 5 years, 10 years, etc... But this is a much more gradual humiliation for your brother. I only wish I could be there when you two "battle it out"! (That is, if you DO decide to do this...) The last time I went out with friends, the Cheroke was broken down... again! (I think he's just scared!) Oh yeah! another thing! The Cheroke is a uni-body, and will NEVER EVER EVER be able to withstand years of use off road, twisting, and flexing will ultimately break welds, distort the body so the doors won't close right, and the vehicle will squeak and rattle, announcing it's presence far in advance everywhere it goes. Let's see the Cheroke go 200,000 miles or MUCH more, as Rovers will go! I hope I didn't offend you with sarcastic remarks about your brother, they were not meant for harm, but for emphasis. P.S. Make sure he brings HIS tow strap, he'll NEED it! At best, the Cheroke is a nice "all wheel drive" car, suitable for going to the ski slopes and such things. But a SERIOUS off road machine??? HA HA HA! My sides are hurting! #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Mike Fredette Fri Jan 13 07:23:02 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 07:23:02 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell & I'm not going to take it anymore... Here, here! Good show old man, really enjoyed it! Send it to CBS, which stands for Completely Bullsh*t as opposed to ABC, Absolute Bullsh*t, and NBC, Normal Bullsh*t. Rgds Mike Fredette Portland, Oregon D90, 90 RR From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Fri Jan 13 10:24:18 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 10:24:18 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: How good are Rovers. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: How good are Rovers. Roland, I have a '94 Discovery which is my first Rover. I can only attest to mine, but I've research the topic a LOT! Almost any 4WD can be MADE to be a very capable off road machine, but only the Land Rover (IMO) comes that way from the factory. What you really need to do is actually GO LOOK at them. Examine the size of the steering components, frame, differentials, etc. Then look at the spec's, engine oil capacity, (7quarts or so) cooling system capacity, (around 3 gallons), Full floating axles, (will get you home even if one breaks) compare wheel travel, approach/departure angles, brakeover angle, etc... Then find someone who owns one, and go out with them! Virtually unstoppable, called "Unfair! That thing is like a tractor!" by the poor saps who own a "brand-X". Sure, you could build up a "brand-X" vehicle to match or maybe even exceed the Rover, but what would you have? An expensive "brand-X" vehicle that has little more resale value than what you began with. The engineering of Rovers "just works" It's that simple. There's a reason they are preferred for use in the toughest regions all over the world. They work! I don't know if this helps, but bottom line is that you will have to research, and come to your own convictions! My "suspicions" (that the LR was a great truck) have become convictions upon ownership. Dave- #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Fri Jan 13 09:42:27 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 09:42:27 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell & I'm not going to take it anymore... > From lro-owner@uk.stratus.com Thu Jan 12 20:16 PST 1995 > To: Land-Rover-Owner@uk.stratus.com [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > Jim > roverheadus pissedoffbigtimum mediadorkus > jpappa01@interserv.com But, I'll bet you swallowed all their BS about "assault rifles" hook, line and sinker. R, bg From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Fri Jan 13 10:19:01 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 10:19:01 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: RE: How good really? Roland, you asked about how good are Land-Rovers: The Land-Rover you describe, whether with V-8 or 4-cyl, with air-lockers front and rear, will have few peers. About the only way to do better off road would be to have coil suspension (big improvement and standard on newer Land-Rovers, starting about 1983), shorter wheelbase, and a winch. The others you mention will not even be close. As a daily driver, the comparison will more or less favor the others. If the '65 lwb LR has a good heater (e.g. Mansfield or Kodiak) it will be O.K. as a driver, if distances are short. The V-8 will certainly help here. But I hope you realize, as you are in U.K., where petrol prices are so high, that a V-8 lwb will be very thirsty. Many in your country favor a diesel for economy and good off-road performance. Some, such as the 200tdi and 300tdi from Land-Rover and others, that are widely discussed and advertised in _Land_Rover_Owner_ International_ and _Land_Rover_World magazines, can also give satisfactory on-road performance. Personally, I hate diesels but I live where the price of petrol is a lot cheaper. I, too, would certainly want a V-8. As you say, the charm of old Land-Rovers is unquestionable. The downside, especially with such an old one, is that everything leaks, big-time, including the roof, electrical problems, noise, and (with stock 4-cyl) lack of power on-road. But overall reliability is good, they are easy and relatively cheap to work on, and the ultimate in durability. Regarding price, as I live in U.S., I can't help much except to say look at ads in back of the abovementioned U.K. magazines for a good indication. To us in U.S., your prices look really cheap. In fact I have been thinking alot about coming over there to look. :^] Finally, what is SAR? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From Mike Dryfoos Fri Jan 13 10:18:40 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 10:18:40 TZ From: Mike Dryfoos Subject: Cadillacs and Rovers Until this past summer, the only Rover dealer in the state of Washington was also Seattle's Cadillac dealer. I always thought that was a pretty strange combination, although the embarrassment of going to the Cadillac dealer didn't stop me from buying my first Rover there. This summer, the Rovers were moved off to a separate premises under the name "Land Rover Seattle", without even the owner's corporate name attached. And yes, they too are creating a Land Rover boutique inside the dealership, and trying to sell themselves as a lifestyle concept. From marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Fri Jan 13 19:05:04 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 19:05:04 +0000 (GMT) From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Rear differential woes... Greetings all! Many weeks have now passed since I dared to add my voice to the weighty matters discussed in this forum, in fact I haven't even read the digests piling up in my mailbox (the old live list was so much more interactive, sigh!) for weeks, but I have, at long last, fixed my rear differential! Those of you with elephantine memories may recall that sometime in mid-November I posted a plea for advice on the possible causes of a total loss of drive from the rear (Rover) differential on my 1970 LWB Station Wagon. I didn't get too many responses, if truth be told, but among the few I received was one suggestion that the crownwheel bolts had sheered. Now, being a born sceptic, I was initially disinclined to go along with this theory - after all, there are 10 of the damned things, all 3/8 BSF - believing instead that either the pinion had moved out of mesh due to a collapsed bearing, or that more serious damage had occured. In fact, when I drained the oil, and felt around inside the drain plug, sure enough I found some sheared bolt heads, and when I took the diff out, I did indeed find that all 10 had sheared. I can't imagine the 2.25 develops sufficient torgue to do that kind of damage even in low ratio. I wonder how long it took for them to go and why? Have I been driving around with some of them broken for years? Who knows. Anyway, the gears were unmarked apart from a slight chip on one crownwheel tooth, so I elected to clean it all up and fit new bolts. Some attention with a file was needed to remove odd ridges and spurs of metal where the bolt heads had gouged the surface of the crownwheel carrier, but, all in all, damage was essentially cosmetic. Removing all the metal fragments (and swarf from the drill where I had to use a stud-extractor to remove the ends of two stubborn bolts from the crownwheel) was a nightmare, however, and it took me half a back-breaking day, and several changes of paraffin to achieve. I got it all assembled and was feeling quite pleased with myself, when Sod stepped in and asserted his unwavering Law - as I was tightening the new bolts to the recommended 60-70 ft/lbs., one bolt decided it had enough at about 55-60 ft.lbs and sheared! You can imagine how I felt, since I had to use the stud-extractor to the get the bloody thing out again! More swarf! I finally got it all put back together today, and took it for a spin - no untoward noises, so hopefully all will be well. What a relief. Now all I have to do is change the gearbox, fix the wiper motor, fit a new horn, sort out the play in the steering...etc., etc. and then get a new MOT! Talking of play in the steering, has anyone, if you've not all fallen asleep by now, any suggestions as to possible causes and rememdies of the aforementioned ailment? Thanks for listening! Marcus. From Dixon Kenner Fri Jan 13 14:15:54 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 14:15:54 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: RE: How good really? On Fri, 13 Jan 1995, Granville Pool wrote: > Finally, what is SAR? Search and Rescue (at least that's what it stands for in Canada) From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Jan 13 14:48:53 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 14:48:53 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Rear differential woes... > Talking of play in the steering, has anyone, if you've not all fallen asleep > by now, any suggestions as to possible causes and rememdies of the > aforementioned ailment? Assuming your tie rod ends are in fine shape (maybe not), simply adjust your steering box as per manual instructions.....jack up the front end, loosen the locknut on the side of your steering box, tighten until you've begun to feel some friction at the steering wheel, then back off just a tad until you don't (I think the manual suggests something like 1/8 of a turn or some such). cheers, rd and nigel From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Fri Jan 13 12:45:43 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 12:45:43 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery Hard to believe the Jeep is better off-road!? I would have thought its low underbelly would be a nuisance for one thing, and I doubt it has the wheel travel of the Disco. Maybe, knowing 4WD & Off Road, their technique is to use the 5 liter V8 to charge at any obstacle fast enough to get to the other side by sheer momentum! Iff you have any details of the off-road sections of the test they would be interesting. Cheers John Brabyn From "Mr T.stevenson" Fri Jan 13 19:54:49 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 19:54:49 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: Re: Range Rover safety etc. As I understood it, the recently published Government report did deal with actual accident statistics and was not based on 'laboratory' crash testing of vehicles. This was the reason why the car manufacturers were so opposed to its publication. I suppose that insurance actuaries would have the best information, since they are betting money on vehicles' safety. Having said this, I was recently quoted 700 pounds p.a. by Swintons to insure a 1962 IIa SWB in my wife's name. Even though it was her first car insurance in her own name, I thought that this was a bit excessive for an old Land Rover. When I queried the amount with Swintons, I was told that it was an old car and had a large capacity engine. I pointed out that it needed a large engine to drag its two-ton weght around and was capable of only 65 mph downhill with a following wind, but they refused to reduce their quote. In the end, the vehicle was insured for one third the sum with a specialist insurer from the pages of LRO mag. The police officer who gave the lecture on RTA investigation would not be pressed into naming makes of car, but as I said before told us that a large 4x4-type vehicle with a separate chassis offered in his opinion the best crash protection for its occupants. Ultimately, it is the drivers that make cars dangerous, not the cars themselves. After years of living on Cumbrae with its low traffic density and relaxed pace of life, I now find it fairly stressful to drive in busy city traffic having lost the killer instincts developed when I lived in the Big Smoke. However, I have discovered that wearing a flat cap and holding a piece of straw between my teeth whilst driving the Land Rover in town makes city drivers give me a wider berth! Enough of this rambling; I've been working too late tonight, so I'm off doon the pub for a wee swally before supper. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From "Russell G. Dushin" Fri Jan 13 17:20:13 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 17:20:13 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Suburbans So's I'm on the phone last night, speaking with a perspective seller of a used auto (needed to replace Gretchen, the one that got smashed up a few weeks back by a driver who needs lessons.. not I, thank you)....eventually I get around to asking him "So, do you drive this car in the winter??" to which he replies "No, I've got a Range Rover for that" to which I reply "Oh, good for you, my other car is a Land Rover as well, a '60 Series II short wheel based model". He asks "Isn't that a Toyota?" Oi. rd/nigel From johnwats@galaw.win.net (John H. Watson) Fri Jan 13 18:09:01 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 18:09:01 From: johnwats@galaw.win.net (John H. Watson) Subject: Discovery headlights Does anybody know if Eurporean/German H4 headlamp units are readily interchangable with the U.S. Discovery units? The Euro style light pattern is vastly superior. I have always changed them out on Mercedes, which required extensive changes, but the Discovery looks to be merely changing the lamp units themselves. Thanks for any tips. From "T.F. Mills" Fri Jan 13 20:48:28 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 20:48:28 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Cadillacs and Rovers There must be a pattern to this Cadillac-Rover thing that Mike Dryfoos and Walt Swain mention. I have just written a profile of Red Noland, North American Land Rover dealer of the year ('94) for the Colorado Rover newsletter. He spent all his life selling Cadillacs and developing a fine reputation at it. In 1987, RRNA approached him saying "you're our kind of guy." He admits he had never heard of Range Rover or Land Rover, but he took the bait (without ever giving up Cadillac), and he is now one of the first in the US to build one of these fancy new Rover boutiques called "adventure centres". I also just took over as editor of same newsletter, so herewith follows a shameless solicitation for subscriptions: it's $16 for 6 issues payable to Solihull Society, PO Box 916, Monment, CO 80132. The Jan/Feb issue is a 20-pager and contains the Red Noland profile. Our net friend, the baloney slicer is also in that issue with an exclusive piece that even the rest of you car-list-rejects haven't seen. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Jan 13 23:51:51 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 23:51:51 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Suburbans Russell sez.... > So's I'm on the phone last night, speaking with a perspective > seller of a used auto (needed to replace Gretchen, the one that snip > "No, I've got a Range Rover for that" to which I reply "Oh, good > for you, my other car is a Land Rover as well, a '60 Series II snip > He asks "Isn't that a Toyota?" > Oi. none Thunk.... So....Did you buy the car or did you do the right thing and tell the bozo what an Idiot he was... (And they wonder why we say Bad Things about people with Range Rovers) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Fri Jan 13 23:51:03 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 23:51:03 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell & I'm not go Jim Pappa proves for once and all that he *can* use all 10 fingers to type.. > I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore... > I'm really getting tired of the press sounding sirens, bells, strobe [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > ripping out hunks `o hair everytime a 4WD vehicle is involved in an > incident ----etc, etc, etc----------- > mph? Why don't we all of a sudden hear that all vehicles that weigh under > 2500 pounds are unsafe for human consumption? ------snip!------------------- Eat steel and die, sucker! :) > I've really had it. Today there was some dork on "Good Morning America" > who was lamenting that the Land Rover Discovery and Defender 90 > displayed (all of a sudden with no empirical data) the worst stability > of any SUV sold in America! Can you dig this? Another asshole shooting > from the hip. We ------snip!--------------- Uh, oh.. I can just picture Jim... Nostrils flaring, eyes bugged out about 15 inches.. steam blowing from his ears with that "noon-whistle" sound. How do *you* spell upset?? > basically unassuming public - they deserve better. Much as we deride the > competition, even they deserve better. Remember the 60-minutes torpedoeing > of the Jeep CJ-7? A basically decent off-roader. A couple of yahoos > rolled one over for the cameras and bang - unsafe! ------snip!-------------- Oh, god, he frothing at the mouth!! He's standing up for (shudder) Jeeps! > And another thing... > competition, even they deserve better. Remember the 60-minutes torpedoeing Well, Jim.. for once, you actually made sense. And, for Pete's sake, quit watching "Goot Morning Amerika"... It will rot your brain! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From jpappa01@InterServ.Com Fri Jan 13 20:54:24 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 95 20:54:24 PST From: jpappa01@InterServ.Com Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell - the sequel Just as I suspected - the Good Morning America debacle was nothing more than some douche bag author trying to promote a book! A stupid attempt to cash in on the hottest segment of the automotive industry - sport utilities. So let's pick the two very vehicles that have been voted Four Wheeler Of The Year in consecutive years! I despise even more than this asshole the scumbag network C**TS that allow this drivel to even have a venue or any type - let alone national television. LRNA is debating whether or not to let this slide (wait and see if any damage is done) or to sick the legal jerkoffs on ABC's legal jerkoffs. I say its high time that these brain dead dross are held accountable for their actions. So make it loud and clear that unfounded and absurd claims will be costly. Journalism my ass... The quick and dirty on this jabone is this .... as I aluded to yesterday, there IS NO empirical evidence (nuthin') to support his instability claims. Are you ready for this? His "findings" were the result of some COMPUTER MODEL!! Yes! Not one incident of an actual rollover could be documented in this numbnut's "data." Real world? What's that? And using NHTSA standards that are not only obsolete but have BEEN REPLACED! Holy moly Batman! This is "gimme an airsick bag material." I beg for prospects to come into the dealership and present me with an opportunity to set the record straight. I hope with all my might that this stinking television network is held accountable for letting unverified and clearly FALSE information to be presented as fact to a viewing audience of millions! This is disgusting. Next we'll have another stagetop lineup of gay, inbred, intergenerational mutants who will appear on Geraldo, Gordon Elliot, Oprah, Montel, and the rest of the trash mongers who will swear that their abbey normal behavior and disfigured bodies were a direct result of some ghastly encounter in a Land Rover or other sport utility vehicle... The media in this country has reached the depths of total lack of control in any type of professional (read objective) reporting. Its stricly sound bites, quick and easy ratings, and any bit of garbage that is coincident with any controversial (notice the rover root of that last word) piece of horse twap that can be served up in a 9.95 expose. Auto manufacturers are spending millions and millions each year to satisfy the ever-increasing stacks of bureaucratic, regulatory and litigatory overlays which are now pervading everything we own, eat, breathe and sleep with, on, near, far, etc. etc. Even something as basic as the Best 4x4xfar is being challenged daily. But it works. The Defender 90 is still as fun as ever. Do you think that back in`58 that Land Rover would have envisioned having their workhorse still able to meet U.S. (toughest in world) standards 35 years later?? Is it possible that ANYTHING could stay in production (and increase every year) that long if it was inherently unsafe? I don't think so... To ABC and this dipshit I quote Khan; "With my last breath, I spit at thee!" regards Jim roverheadus stillfuminum atallofem jpappa01@interserv.com From "Kelly Minnick" Fri Jan 13 22:27:14 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 22:27:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Rollover RE: Rollover Yes, the follow-up report for the CJ 'S' bend at high speed was that the vehicle was tested special for 60 minutes and had been run through this test more than 700 times. Weights were added in the rear outside corners to produce the rolls, but were justified in that one might carry a load in this position (yeah right- 200 lbs of lead down by the rear spring perch). The Audi thing: Incedent #1 - some guy got the bright idea to modify his auto trans and actually ran high pressure hydraulic lines outside of the trans that could be controlled from the drivers' seat.... The second accident took place where a lady ran over her own son. In the police report she told the police that she steped down to hit the brakes, but her foot slipped off the brake and onto the gas pedal... When the media story came out, she had her foot on the brake and the engine reved and the car continued in its forward path (actually accelerated).... Hmm!?? The moral of the story is that many people speak without facts (mee too). I am paid not too, but sometimes my ego gets to me (I just KNOW that a Disco is better than a Cherokee!). I have had my '64 88" at a > 40 degree where I could not sit in the seat and we put a strap across the top to keep the beast from tipping over. And the engine ran without a From "T.F. Mills" Sat Jan 14 01:06:52 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 01:06:52 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery John Brabyn writes: < underbelly would be a nuisance for one thing, and I doubt it has the wheel < travel of the Disco. Maybe, knowing 4WD & Off Road, their technique [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] < Iff you have any details of the off-road sections of the test they would be < interesting. The mag cites both has having 8 inches ground clearance. Both are cited for front and rear overhangs that compromise approach and departure angles (compared to CJ, Wrangler and Defender) -- but it's nothing serious. The Cherokee has optional Trac-Lok limited slip-differential; Disco has no such option. Both drive systems perform well in the rough, but the mag gives Jeep the edge with "bigger-hammer motor". During the test the Jeep had a throttle cable and coolant hose pop loose. The Disco seatbelt could not be adjusted (like when getting out to scout the terrain) except on level ground. That about all 4 Wheel had to say about off-road performance. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Jan 14 11:50:26 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 11:50:26 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: A beautiful spring day.. in January?? Ahh... 55 degrees (F).. The snow and ice are melting.. the birds are singing and I'm outside cleaning up yard debris.. But this is January 14th!! It *should* be somewhere near zero with two feet of snow here... Go figure.. More suprises.. Fern's been sitting in the back of the yard for a while now. I figured I'd start him up and dry off the engine... Lots of condensation with the warm weather and cold metal.. Started up fine and the transmission wasn't quite as noisy. Hmmmm... wonder if he'll move?? Tried 2WD but there was too much ice under the rear wheels. Into 4WD and he backed up with no problems... 1st gear works too. Turned him around and parked him next to the '65. Damm! Must be a broken tooth or more on third gear and the pieces have settled into the bottom of the tranny. I suppose I could drain and re-fill it. I don't dare try driving anywhere though. Well, at least I can use Fern to move stuff around in the yard. These Rovers never cease to amase me.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From Dixon Kenner Sat Jan 14 14:10:09 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 14:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Cadillacs and Rovers On Fri, 13 Jan 1995, T.F. Mills wrote: > I also just took over as editor of same newsletter, so herewith follows a > shameless solicitation for subscriptions: it's $16 for 6 issues payable [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > baloney slicer is also in that issue with an exclusive piece that even > the rest of you car-list-rejects haven't seen. There a few of the shameless type here... :-) Our friend Jim Pappas writes the Bay State newsletter, Sandy Grice does the Virginia club newsletter, I do the Ottawa Valley one. One thing the FAQ does not have however, is the cost of membership in the various clubs. What I do know is: Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (E. Canada) $20 for 12 issues(14 pp.) Solihull Society (Colorado) $16 for 6 issues (20 pp.) Rover Owners of Virginia $?? for 4 issues Bay State Rover Owners Assoc (Boston) $?? for ? issues Anyone have more numbers? Being the new year, membership fees have probably changed and any information like this should probably be updated. Rgds, Dixon From BwanaE@aol.com Sat Jan 14 14:48:31 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 14:48:31 -0500 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: San Francisco 4 X 4 trip For: Gareth Seymore 2 Cae Mansel Lane Gowerton, Swansea SA4 3HW South Wales From WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Sat Jan 14 14:45:36 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 14:45:36 -0600 (CST) From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Subject: Euro Headlights I kon't know if that's possible or easily done. Good idea, though. Something else I thought woiuld look cool would be _round_ headlights-- they sure look cool on old RRs. Be sure and post if you find anything! Henry Wilson '94 Disco 5-spd From Steve Firth Fri Jan 13 21:09:14 1995 Date: Fri, 13 Jan 1995 21:09:14 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Re: Jeep Cherokee vs Discovery T.F. Mills quotes "4-Wheel and Off-Road" "The way we see it, the grand Cherokee wins by a nose--that nose being the difference between its 5.2 liter V8 and Discovery's 3.9 [and then some evenlFrom "Kelly Minnick" Sat Jan 14 23:51:10 1995 Date: Sat, 14 Jan 1995 23:51:10 -0800 (PST) From: "Kelly Minnick" Subject: Zenith cam RE: Zenith cam In an earlier submission, I asked if anyone knew where I could find the cam off of a Zenith 36IVE (USA?) carb. Most people thought I meant the throttle switch. I have the silly switch (and it works!). Since I never had the stock Zenith carb, I don't have the cam that was attached to the throttle shaft! If I had a drawing, I would make one! Maybe I'll have to fake one without dimensions. Surely someone out there still has a 36IVE!?? By the way Ben, even if they give you an exemption for this 2 year period, you'll have to go through the same process in another 2 years. The exemption is not for the life of the vehicle if you do not have all the original equipment. (been there, done that!). i.e. don't give away any of your original equipment! I have a 36IV that I plan on putting this cam-thing and seeing it that flies... Wish me luck. I'll swap carbs every 2 years if necessary! Later. Oh, thanks again for all the tank/vacuum boost info. Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From Steve Firth Sun Jan 15 20:14:16 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 20:14:16 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: RE: How good really? Granville Pool writes:- >I hope you realize, as you are in U.K., where petrol prices are so high, >that a V-8 lwb will be very thirsty. Many in your country favor a diesel >for economy and good off-road performance. Though consider before looking at a diesel what sort of use you want from your Landie. The older diesels are rough and none too economical and they like to be used every day. If you intend only occasional use, a petrol engine is a beTter bet than a diesel as they can be left standing for weeks and start first time. Be cautious with V8 conversions on older models, they can have drive shaft problems because the torque of the V8 is more than the drivetrain likes. THe 90/110 onwards have much tougher components in the drivetrain. Lastly, think about insurance. The 109 Safari/County 12 seater is seen as an insurance risk because of the seating capacity. If you only make occasional use of the Landie, you can get big discounts by insuring on a restricted mileage basis. I restrict mine to less than 7k/year and pay half the premium quoted for unlimited mileage. -Steve Firth, '81 108" Safari. From hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Mon Jan 16 09:51 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 09:51 NZT From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: RE: New Zealand Land Rovers -- Advice please! >Very average prices for a "good condition" LWB Safari Series 2 or 3. Seems to range from NZ$3k for one that goes, to $10k for very tidy late models. Around 5-6k should net you a good one. >The best area to go shopping. Auckland? South Island? No real >difference? There are 17 of various models (from S1 to 110) listed in this week's 'Trade&Exchange' in Auckland. That's pretty typical. I don't know about Christchurch. >Any particular "gotchas" related to buying a Landie in NZ (e.g. most >having been used to dump boats in salt water)? Many ex Army vehicles, which I would guess have been maintained pretty well during their military life. Many farm vehicle, which possibily haven't (but most of these have flat-deck rear trays which you're probably not so interested in). Many Holden repowers. Original landy motors actually seem to be quite rare. Hugh From "Neil E. Villacorta" Sun Jan 15 14:33:40 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 95 14:33:40 PST From: "Neil E. Villacorta" Subject: ENGINE NEEDED *** Resending note of 01/15/95 14:31 My friend is rebuilding a Rover 3500 Vitesse saloon, and would like to update his engine to either 3.5 or 3.9-liter V8, preferably an '86 or later model. Would need a complete engine including fuel-injection parts; and engine mounts. Please send any info, including price, mileage, etc. Thanks in advance, :-) neil From bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Sun Jan 15 18:20:53 1995 Date: Sun, 15 Jan 1995 18:20:53 -0500 From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: On the road! Well, after 2 weeks of intensive work(10-14 hours daily), the 88 is ready to go. I've just got to throw the fenders back on and put the floors in, and it should be ready for inspection. the door posts actually went in fairly easily. At least, it was easier than welding spring boxes on a MkII Jaguar. I only set the Rover on fire once(oily rag stupidly sitting near the welder), and I got it out pretty quickly. I've tested it out a bit in the yard, and it runs great. I couldn't find any real mud, which was probably just as well, since I got quite wet enough without floors or fenders. It runs a bit rich, though, and I can't find any info on tuning the 2 bbl weber. Does anyone know anything about these? Also, does anyone have a spare overdrive kicking around? Probably a stupid question, they seem to be rather scarce. From root@ocs.cpsg.com.au Mon Jan 16 12:48:53 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 12:48:53 EDT From: root@ocs.cpsg.com.au Subject: Slack in the stearing Most of the time, the slack is in the tie rod ends, or thats my experience, so just look for the ones that are on there way to the great big steering arm in the sky, and replace them. If all the tie rod ends are in good nick, check the steering box and the king pins. -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | I slow for hills! email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | but not of my own will From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 15 95 Jan EST 1921 Date: 15 Jan 95 21:28:20 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell ... Jim is cross... how about "thoroughlus pissedoffus anaskatomenus" "Oh, but I *do* insist to have a car where I'll survive a 60 ft. drop from a cliff unhurt... maybe I'll have to revert to the old VW Beetle after all" More on the serious side: Obviously every construction has its limits, and a free fall in whatever is of course the worst accident imaginable. I recall a report some time last year about some unfortunate egyptian UN-soldiers in Bosnia who slipped off a bridge and fell a mere 18 feet deep into a dry rocky river bed ... in a Scorpio tank! One soldier killed, the other two badly injured (skull fracture, broken back, broken legs). IOW I'm surely not surprised that the Rottman family didn't survive that crash with their Range Rover ... not a chance. I do find however that the risk of accidental or foolish use of the Range Rovers diff lock is widely unknown or underestimated. First, the actuating lever has no kind of safety latch or inhibitor. Just a mere flick with the hand, or even just accidentally knocking it, and... zap! And I also must agree with that reporter that the customer is not warned sufficiently about the potential risks. Bill, I have here lying before me the original 1987 Range Rover Owners Manual (# SRR600ENHB), and all it says is, and I quote: "In conditions requiring maximum traction to both axles, i.e. .... on any surface where the vehicle is likely to lose adhesion, the gearbox differential unit can be locked so that both output shafts rotate at same speed." Yeah, great. And the manual even encourages applying diff lock on high-traction surface, because further down they suggest: "The differential should (!) be locked before (!) driving in slippery or doubtful surface conditions." Considering furthermore the fact that very few first owners of Range Rovers have any notion about off-road driving and techniques whatsoever, this is obviously inviting trouble. The only 'warning', if you want to call it that, is - "The control can be operated while the vehicle is travelling without wheel slip and in a straight line, or while it is stationary." Instead, they really should print framed and in big red caps ' WARNING - ENGAGING THE DIFFERENTIAL LOCK ON DRY SURFACE AND/OR AT HIGH SPEEDS OR WHILE NOT DRIVING STRAIGHT CAN KILL YOU! ' When going into or out of diff lock while making a turn with the steering fully locked, the vehicle is obviously going to skid or jump out of control or knock the steering wheel out of the drivers hands. But how would the average yuppie Range Rover owner know? (all list members excepted, of course). Sure, he'll find out first time he does it, but he just might not live to tell the story. And I strongly suspect that that is what happened to poor Mr. Rottman. Still, keep on fuming, Jim, it makes great reading! Stefan '87 RR | '73 S.III 109 Station From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 15 95 Jan EST 1922 Date: 15 Jan 95 22:22:47 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Differential failures Diffs fail for many reasons, the major cause in my experience is simply fatigue, the std dif is undersized for the weight and power of the later Rovers, hence salisbury on ser 3 109's. Part of the reason for full time f.w.d is to be easier on the transmission. In 20 plus years of competition with landies I have bust, scrapped and repaired a lot of diffs. if the crown wheel or pinion teeth go the unit is scrap, however there are still a lot of useful spares left in the assembly for the impecunious owner, the planet gears and the planet carrier are very useful in repairing units with the next major problem , sheared teeth os shaft in the planet gear assembly. The later models have the planet gear shaft secured ( ha ha !) with a pair of circlips, this allows the shaft to rotate in the cast iron housing and subsequently enlarge the hole, creating more clearance and backlash, thus increasing the shock loads, thus increasing the wear and so on until failure occurs. I have seen a Rangie diff with almost an 1" long slot worn in the planet carrier. Occasionaly the bolts securing the crown wheel to the carrier fail, early vehicles are fitted with B.S.F. bolts, difficult these days to obtain in High Tensile material these days. Later ones with UNF and new onesd with Metric fasteners. Marcus where did you get your torque tightening data from? 55 ft lb is far too high a torque for a dia 3/8" bolt. The "Rover" manual lists 35 ft lb for standard bolts and 45 ft.lb. for special bolts. Since yours is BSF thread it should be fitted with locking tabs which will prevent the bolts from coming loose by turning, torque is therefore less critical in this application. On the UNF bolts without tabs it is more important to have the correct torque figure. The use of anearobic polymers ( Loctite ) is recomended in this situation. You are now driving around in a vehicle in which the crown heel retaining screws are overstressed ( readily indicated by the fact that you sheared one at assembly ). I suggest that at sometime of your own choosing you replace the bolts with new ones tightened to 35 ft lb, or somedy you will have to do it at a time of the diffs choosing, perhaps when you are miles from civilization. Whilst on my soapbox I should also mention that the diff requires lubrication, it is easy to overlook the need to check the level of the oil and to change it occasionaly. it is often overlooked that the oil that is leaking from the half shaft end or loose drive flange is coming from the diff casing. Examination of the old oil can often give indication of potential failures, i.e bolt heads, bits of gear teeth etc. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. ( it is now 'two whole weeks' since I last saw a Land Rover when I was in the UK for Christmas, I need a fix. ( readily indicated by the fact that you sheared one at assembly ). I suggest From UncleBrad@aol.com Mon Jan 16 01:32:52 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 01:32:52 -0500 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Subject: Re: Shameless I check in every now & then to see what the hot topics are and when I saw the blurb about shameless newsletter editors, I figures that I had better jump in. Actually, the blurb had more to do with clubs and whether their dues would be going up. A few figures were given but not for the Land Rover Owners' Association of North America. Being the editor of that club's newsletter, It falls to me to provide the information... - Membership is still $20 per year. - The quarterly "newsletter" is really a magazine (32pages for the winter issue). It has an events calendar with most North American events, a News section, a Club Report section telling you about recent club activities in N. America, a Tech Tips section which gives good information about how other members maintain their Rovers, an articles section where you can read about members' Rover adventures, a parts & service page which lists as many shops as we know of who have worked on Rovers, a club listing which has all the North American Rover clubs' addresses so that you can plug into a local group of fanatics, a Military section where facts & figures about Rovers in the military can be found, and a Marketplace section with 1-2 pages of Rovers and Rover parts for sale. Besides that, it has lots & lots of photos. The address is: LROA,NA P.O. Box 1144 Paradise, CA 95967. Boy, do I feel badly about this. I'll try not to let it happen again. Brad Blevins From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Jan 16 08:34:10 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 08:34:10 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Mag/Club subscription prices > Solihull Society (Colorado) $16 for 6 issues (20 pp.) > Rover Owners of Virginia $?? for 4 issues > Bay State Rover Owners Assoc (Boston) $?? for ? issues Scottish Land Rover Owners Club : 10.00 (4 issues of Club Mag.) Land Rover World : 25.00 UK & BFPO; (Inc. freebe book) 37.20 Overseas surface; 44.20 Europe & Eire (air) 60.00 Overseas (air) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do optimists find it full of disappointments. | it in the mud. From Carl Byrne Mon Jan 16 11:48:35 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 11:48:35 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Gareth Seymour Hi Gareth, Repost your e-mail address - I couldn't get through to you last time (2 months ago) Carl.Dr.Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From harincar@internet.mdms.com Mon Jan 16 07:48:46 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 07:48:46 -0600 From: harincar@internet.mdms.com Subject: For Sale - 66 IIa 88 Greetings, Due to parental pressures (my wife is pregnant with our first!), we have come to the realization that we need something a bit more practical, and to be honest, safer than the ol' IIa. I hope to rejoin the Rover Owner ranks again in a couple years with a Defender. Anyhow, here are the specs - contact me if you or anyone you know is interested. For Sale 1966 Land Rover Series IIa 88 Station Wagon Lots of new parts in the last 2-3 years, including: Brakes Shocks Tires Exhaust (including manifold) Carb (Zeneth) Heater Core Battery (New last fall) Generator Fuel pump (in-line filter added) Lots & lots of little things (have full purchase records) Frame is very sound. Body is in great shape. Runs excellent. Interior needs minor work (some tears in original front seats); jump seats in great shape. Tropical roof; bonnet spare tire; original wheels; 88K miles; stored during winter. Asking $5200 Contact: Tim Harincar (612) 822-9975(h) (612) 661-1511(w) harincar@internet.mdms.com 4045 Park Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55407 From Jon Humphrey Mon Jan 16 09:01:12 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 09:01:12 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: I'm mad as hell - the sequel Go gettum Jim, >To ABC and this dipshit I quote Khan; "With my last breath, I spit at thee!" >regards none Jim Thank God we don't *have* to sit and look at ABC, but it is a shame that any irresponsable ass can get that kind of coverage. Where I have a problem, is that people are stupid enough to believe him. And this applies all the way to D.C. also. Jon From BwanaE@aol.com Mon Jan 16 12:27:40 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 12:27:40 -0500 From: BwanaE@aol.com Subject: Re: San Francisco 4 X 4 trip For: Michael Loiodice, Never had the pleasure of serving with "The boys in blue", but I was in service from '76 to '80 flying helicopters (UH-1Hs) for the Army.... initially at "mother rucker" (Ft. Rucker, Alabama) and later at Ft. Ord, California. It could be that our paths crossed at one of the airbases down south as we used to fly a lot of IFR cross-country trips to USAF facilities, re-fuel, and fly home. Ah, the military... fond memories... I still remember our unit's recruiting slogan: " JOIN THE ARMY. TRAVEL TO EXOTIC, DISTANT LANDS... MEET EXCITING, UNUSUAL PEOPLE.... AND KILL THEM. " Eric. From Jon Humphrey Mon Jan 16 12:41:52 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 12:41:52 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: Re: Suburbans Russ reiterates; >"So, do you drive this car in the winter??" to which he replies >"No, I've got a Range Rover for that" to which I reply "Oh, good [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >short wheel based model". >He asks "Isn't that a Toyota?" Well You're the one who has to hob-nob with these folks. You should have come back with; "I understand that Range Rovers are assembled in Mexico by Tequilla crazed Mariachi indians" So what kind of used auto is he selling? A Yugo? At least Brookeykins liked Nigel and probably had a vague idea where he came from too. Boy these last few weeks have been pretty rough on you haven't they. Jon From Fraser.Young@EEC-ISD.eecal.sprint.com Mon Jan 16 12:29:00 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 12:29:00 -0500 From: Fraser.Young@EEC-ISD.eecal.sprint.com Subject: Introduction Dear All, I've just joined the Digest today so a quick note to introduce myself. The name is Fraser Young and I live and work in Aberdeen, Scotland. I presently have two Land Rovers, a 1973 Lightweight with V8/3 spd auto box and a 1991 Defender 90 Tdi SW. The 90 is up for sale though, as I have new 110 on order. Just for interest this is the second 110 to be ordered as the first one has just been sent back to Land Rover due to the number of faults/omissions/leaks, and that's without leaving the dealer's yard! Regards Fraser Young From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Jan 16 15:22:59 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 15:22:59 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Series III really taking shape. All, What a great weekend, it was 63 in southern New Hampshire !! Great weather to work on the Rover. Last week the Rover was returned after being welded up. New chassis leg, crossmembers and footwells. It sat in the garage wednesday night looking pretty shameful, no wings, doors, in its patchwork of colour. However, after this great weekend I have managed to get it back to looking like a SIII. I have replaced all the front and rear window channels, what an easy job !!! Painted the repaired chassis sections, footwells, put the wings back on and refitted the bonnet and bumper. I even managed to connect all the copper brake pipes up and bleed the brakes, hey pressure on the pedal, there is a first. Just for kicks I put the radiator panel back so I could see the completed (MESS) Rover, UGH. Its a mixture of red, blue and green parts from the various Rovers I have bought and parted out. All thats left is to put the new clutch back on the engine and install that, put gearbox back in and start the process of hooking everything up again. I had origianally planed on taking this easy and getting the Rover running by the end of May and ready for the downeast rally at the start of July, If the weather stays holds up it should be ready for inspection in March, ready for MUD SEASON !! Now wheres my wiring diagram...... Mark From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Mon Jan 16 15:23:06 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 15:23:06 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Bleeding SIII brakes All, I read a few days ago that someone had tried the "One mand brake bleeding kit", I tried such a kit and found that it really did'nt work that well. I found that after bleeding the brakes once, the pedal was still going to the floor. Before anyone shouts foul, I have just replaced master, wheel cylinders, and have all new copper pipes, unions in nice and snug, and new shoes all round. After bleeding again, I still found air in the system. I resulted in doing it the old fashioned manual way, which eliminated all the remaining air. I now have a strong pedal, with very limited travel. Mark From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 16 18:09:10 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:09:10 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest LROA has window stickers and key fobs... From the AW: "LROA WINDOW STICKERS / The sticker is black on clear (frosted) self adhesive and measures 4.25" x 5.5". It is printed in revers so that you can put it on the inside ofyour window and it will 'read' from the outside. Please send a check for $1.50 to: / LROA / PO Box 1144 / Paradise, CA 95967" "LROA KEY FOBS / we still have LROA key fobs. David Ducat of CT is handling them forus. They are made of pewter with the front of a Land Rover series IIA on one side and the back on the other side: / The price is $4.00. That includes shipping. Send a $4.00 check (made out to LROA) to: / David Ducat / 1006 Goshen Hill Rd. / Lebanon, CT 06249" I have some of the fobs, and they're quite nice. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 16 18:08:56 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:08:56 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: plunged vs rolled >> the remains of a Range Rover that was totally flattened and destroyed in >> plunged 20 meters deep into a ravine and landed on its roof, killing its [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] >something to be something like 30m/s downward (63mph) when it hit bottom. >That is a tremendous amount of force. One of the things I remember from my college physics is that at City College, gravity has a force of exactly 9.8meters per second per second (9.8m/s/s). That is, for each second in free fall, you end up going 9.8m/s faster. After 1 second of free fall you're traveling 9.8m/s; after 2 seconds, you're going 19.6m/s, etc. To fall 20 meters would take probably about 2.5 seconds. Even at a final velocity of 19.6m/s, that's over 70kilometres per hour. I'm not sure how that works out the MPH, but 63MPh sounds right. In any case, landing at 63mph on the roof will ruin anybody's day, not to mention the rest of their life. Think about how most vehicles would look after a 60+mph run-in with a wall. And they're designed to handle that sort of thing. Landing on the roof, I'm surprised there was anything left to identify them. (It sounds like they didn't have a roll-cage, even, and I still don't think that would help.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 16 18:09:02 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:09:02 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Range Rover Safety etc T'other night, Rachel and I were on our way somewhere in her little Mazda 323, in the left lane of Ocean Avenue (a fairly major thoroughfare). Coming the other way, a nitwit in the righthand lane decides to make a left turn. He turns into the left lane to make his illegal left turn right in front of another nitwit who was going way too fast. So nitwit B, instead of stopping, pulls into the left lane going the other way -- the lane I'm in, headed right for him. Luckily, I was able to react in time and missed him and the car on *my* right by about a centimeter on each side. I (normally unflappable) was actually quite shaken by this and the visions of how I would look had I not missed him. I told Rachel I really wished we were in one of my Rovers just then. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Roger Sinasohn Mon Jan 16 18:09:06 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 18:09:06 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Discos cost too much? Friday, I thought I had pretty much talked one of the women I work with into getting a Disco. Today (Monday), she came in after visiting a dealer quite upset. It seems that she was expecting a cost of around $30K (US) and the dealer quoted her $36K+, not including things like floor mats, the bar things on the roof (the ones that look like std equip), etc. Does this sound right? She wants one complete with bull bars, and the works (though more for looks than for off-highway use) -- how much will she have to pay? The dealer was also very snobby, and said there was no negotiation on the price. I can understand the latter (what with the waiting period and all), but not the former. This was at British Motor Car (BMC) on Van Ness in San Francisco. Can anyone recommend a better dealer in the bay area? I told her to call Cole European in Walnut Creek, but I don't know anything about them either. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From EvanD103@aol.com Mon Jan 16 21:55:25 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 1995 21:55:25 -0500 From: EvanD103@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... I spent an unpleasant three hours this evening removing the steering relay from my '73 Series III's chassis. It took much brute force and ignorance and resulted in the distruction of the 3/4 in. drive socket I had purchased to fit the engine front crank pulley. I had to put something between the bottom of the relay and my hammer. Dispite that the relay doesn't look well after all the hammering. There must be a better way. If there is let me know, and I'll apply it to the reassembly stage of my frame off restoration. In any event the chassis is now truly stripped and ready to be sandblasted. Fun, fun, fun. Erik van Dyck, Stone Mountain, Georgia From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 16 95 Jan EST 1922 Date: 16 Jan 95 22:05:48 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Steering Play The play in the steering of ser 1 to 3 landies is from one or more of four principal sources :- the steering box, early vehicles have a brass steering nut which wears and then exhibits backlash, the later ser 1's were then fitted with a recirculating ball system, which if kept well lubricated has a long life, the backlash can be adjusted to reduce it by scewing in the thrust pad at the sid eof the box,it is well worth testing the play through the wholemovement of the box, generally they wear most around the centre position so it is possible to adjust the play in the middle and for it to be tight at the ends. Trackrod ends are a major source of play in the system, some types have a grease nipple to enable the lubrication of the joint, these are the best, the others are claimed to be greased for life, thay are , but life is generally short. There ae many inferior quality parts on the market, this is one area where i would not use anything other than Genuine parts. The front steering idler is a much neglected part of the steering system. Lubrication is very important but the design and the lubrication method is poor so that lubrication is often neglected. it is very difficult to tell when the oil level is correct, a little and often is the solution. lack of lubrication of the steering idler can cause problems in one of two ways, first in increasing the steering effort and second in reducing it. The idler shaft is located by two phenolic ( plastic ) bearing bushes which are tapered, the tapered pieces are forced apart by a strong spring, the wedge effect locating the shaft. Lack of lubrication causes the bearings to sieze up and thus location of the shaft can be lost, resulting in excessive free play. remedy is to strip out the bearings and shaft and clean it all up. Caution refer to the manual because the spring is very strong and dismantling can be dangerous to the unprepared. Moral, keep it lubricated. Swivel joints, two basic types are used, the both types have a taper roller bearing at the bottom, the early type has a tapered brass bearing, again spring loaded to keep the location. the springs often break, reducing the location effect. The later type have a Rialkobush, these are much better nd can be fitted in place of the old type. A major problem in this area is lubrication, or more precisely lack of lubrication, either by leakage from the swivel housing seal or the fitting of free wheel hubs. the top bearing relies upon the rotation of the half shaft to fling oil to kep it lubricated. the fitting of free wheel hubs stops this, hence the oft ignored advice to engage the hubs weekly to oil the bearings. Steering problems can also result from the failure to maintain the wheel bearings adjustment which can result in the wheel being able to follow its own course Hope I have 'nt gone on too long and you find some clues to assist in the improvement of your steering. regards Bill Leacock. Limey in exile. From dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Tue Jan 17 15:15:41 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 15:15:41 +1030 (CST) From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: 4x4x4 wheel drifting! A few days back Mike R mentioned 4 wheel drifting... When the 3.5 110 first hit OZ one of the local 4x4 mags (Overlander ??) did a major trip as a "test drive" (may even have been pre release) One of the comments re handling was how nicely the vehicle could be controlled in 4 wheel drifts on outback dirt roads. They also had a "perentje" 110 6x6 which apparently pushed the front in the same corners and had a few "excursions" on the trip. I may have the article in a box somewhere, should go look.... My stage one is much easier less inclined to slide than the old IIa but when it does go it is invariably all From "Neil E. Villacorta" Mon Jan 16 23:13:37 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 23:13:37 PST From: "Neil E. Villacorta" Subject: Disco '95 changes? Anyone know the changes for the '95 Disco? Are they ever going the make the *BIG* V8 (4.8-litre ?) available in the Disco?Or are their plans to place a BMW V8 in the Disco or Range Rover? Can a Disco with the BIG V8 be purchased/special ordered for pickup in the UK? I'd like to travel in the UK with one and ship it to the US, similar to the BMW European Delivery Program. Thanks in advance, :-) Neil Villacorta Network Operations Manager UC Santa Barbara From "Barry Dudley" Tue Jan 17 15:45:08 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 15:45:08 +200 From: "Barry Dudley" Subject: NEXT STEP: SUMP+ENGINE PROTECTION I am preparing my SIII for a trans-african tours later this year and would like to add SUMP AND ENGINE PROTECTION PLATES. QUESTIONS: Does anyone have these, and how useful/useless are they? Any advice on HOW TO DO IT would be appeciated. Thanx BARRY DUDLEY UNIVERSITY OF NATAL, KWA-ZULU NATAL DUDLEY@MICR.UNP.AC.ZA SOUTH AFRICA From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 17 95 Jan EST 1909 Date: 17 Jan 95 09:47:07 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Hella H4 conversion for Discovery Recently *someone* (sorry, got my digests spread over three different machines...) inquired about a european Hella H4 headlights conversion for the Discovery. I'm sorry to say this, but according to our local Hella - outlet (a Bosch dealer; local being Wiesbaden/Germany) there is no such thing - not yet, anyway. They only have straight conversion kits (Lucas out - Hella in) for S.III, Defenders and classic Range Rovers, i.e. round lights only. So, I'm afraid you'll have to bear with the "Prince of Darkness". Light up! Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 17 95 Jan EST 1909 Date: 17 Jan 95 09:47:47 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Thanks to the UK folks ... ...just wanted to let the UK folks know that thanks to their combined efforts I finally managed to have those desperately needed RR workshop manuals shipped to me. The list really works! Thanks again... Stefan From Bruce Harding Tue Jan 17 08:02:06 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 08:02:06 PST From: Bruce Harding Subject: Steering Relay Removal Text item: Text_1 Erik, Feel fortunate you got the sucker out. Our local Landrover guru said he's actually had to cut them out before. When I replaced mine, I soaked the area with WD40 everyday for a week before attempting to remove it. It came out easily. The Lindsay Porter restoration manual says to put a bottle hydraulic jack under it to jack it out (or to jack up the beast itself if it's stuck real bad). I smeared mine with anti-sieze compound before putting the new one in. The trouble is that the frame cross member and steering relay rust together. Since it's right up front exposed to the weather, I doubt there's a lot you can do. Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Tue Jan 17 16:22:29 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 16:22:29 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Range Rover fatality 4wds are not sports cars, so you cant drive em like sports cars or they trip up and fall. But then sports cars arent too good at lugging thru 2foot mud. Horses for courses. /I'm interested in the comments about skids -- I've noticed what seems to /me an excessive tendency for the tail to wag on gravel bends (at my /no doubt reckless speeds) and have occasionally wondered whether the /applied correction would work in time. Generally, the vehicle acts /like its on rails when your foot is on the gas, but seems to have /a propensity for skids with it off. Does anyone else have any similar /or different impressions?? There was a suggestion the guy had the diff lock on? In my 90, using the diff lock means that transmission windup will spin a wheel out. Since the engine is over the front, it will be a rear inside wheel on a corner. So it provokes rear wheel slides. I use this deliberately on snow cos I prefer to steer with the rear, having misspent my youth in Ford Escorts, where you dont have the choice. If you want it to corner like it's on rails, then diff lock OFF. Bit boring tho..... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From "Russell G. Dushin" Tue Jan 17 11:35:14 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 11:35:14 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Steering Relay Removal > The Lindsay Porter restoration manual says to put a bottle > hydraulic jack under it to jack it out (or to jack up the > beast itself if it's stuck real bad). I smeared mine with The suggestion was once made to me by Dirk and or Lanny and or Mark at RN to place a chain around the relay when you do this. Apparently, it *can* pop out rather violently, and this measure assures some degree of safety.....to be sure the thing doesn't fly out into your face, or arm, or buttocks. rd/nigel From "Rusty Greer" 17 1995 Jan -0800 1908 Date: 17 Jan 1995 08:56:27 -0800 From: "Rusty Greer" Subject: Re: Discos cost too much? Reply to: RE>Discos cost too much? Yes, discos do cost a lot. If you want a dealer in the San Francisco Bay area that is very good, go to the dealer on Steven's Creek in San Jose. I bought my disco from the dealer in San Francisco because they had one that I wanted but I have not been very pleased with them. I now take my disco to the San Jose Land Rover dealer for any and all service/warranty work. They are excellent. Rusty From rsj@ny.ox.com (Rick Jaffe) Tue Jan 17 12:04 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 12:04 EST From: rsj@ny.ox.com (Rick Jaffe) Subject: Disco availability I'm in the middle of an expected four month wait for a Disco at my local (Darien, CT) dealer. My salesman tells me that although production has been recently increased, his dealership has not yet seen any increase in the flow of vehicles. Is there a dealership with a new Disco in inventory? Thanks. Rick Jaffe USMail: OTA Limited Partnership, 1 Manhattanville Rd., Purchase, NY 10577 Phone: +1 914 694-5800 x230 FAX: +1 914 694-5831 Internet: rsj@ox.com From Mike Rooth Tue Jan 17 16:55:29 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 16:55:29 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Range Rover fatality I may be wrong here,but I always thought that the rule when cornering was "Slow In Fast Out".In other words the one thing you *dont* do is to take your clog off on a bend.The thing will run wide.Stick the aforementioned clog *down* however, and it will hang its tail out and corner more tightly. Of course you can always overdo it,in which case it will spin.Tough.You entered the bend too fast in the first place, didnt you? Cheers Mike Rooth From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Tue Jan 17 9:14:23 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 9:14:23 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: Re: Discovery Cost Too Much > The dealer was also very snobby, and said there was no negotiation on the > price. I can understand the latter (what with the waiting period and all), [ truncated by lro-digester (was 6 lines)] > to call Cole European in Walnut Creek, but I don't know anything about them > either. Try San Jose Land Rover (Used to be San Jose British Motors) if she doesn't mind driving to the South Bay. They got several nice Discoveries in stock; just came in a couple of weeks ago. They are located on Stevens Creek Blvd. close to Lawrence Expressway. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Peng (408)765-7863 Intel Corporation Design Technology, Physical CAD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From S|ren Vels Christensen Tue Jan 17 18:26:07 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 18:26:07 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Extra Fuel Tank On Thu, 12 Jan 1995, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > In message <9501122039.AA23685@skivs.ski.org> John Brabyn writes: > > OK you guys -- I've now learned that the proper place for fuel tanks [ truncated by lro-digester (was 15 lines)] > TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards Not close enough. Aurens is a 109 two door. Tank was in the back and i fitted the new STW type tank there as well. (But i might fit a 45l seat tank as well,- will have to ruin the sidepanels). Sorry John... :-/ +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From FHYap@aol.com Tue Jan 17 16:26:19 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 16:26:19 -0500 From: FHYap@aol.com Subject: Misc Comments/Queries: Baja 1000: I am happy to hear that a LR was first in class in the Baja. But was it really a stock Defender 110? January 95 LRW p. 82 would seem to indicate that it would not be. Blazer Rental: In addition to insurance requirements, watch out for mileage charges. They can add up pretty fast. Land Rover v. other 4x4s: We all know that LR makes the best 4x4. We need not be insecure about it. We don't need to insult other 4x4 manufactureres to "prove" that a LR is superior. The fact that a LR may be superior does not mean that other 4x4s are "trash." Landcruisers, Monteros (Shogun/Pajeros), Pathfinders, etc. are probably fine vehicles for their owners. (Wasn't the Cherokee recently rated 4x4 of the year by an English or Australian magazine?) Remember, until LR started producing a "Japanese type" 4x4, its civilian sales were lacking. Without the LR logo, the Discovery could easily be mistaken for a Japanese 4x4. It is my undersatnding that LR developed the Discovery to explicitly compete with the Japanese 4x4 competition - and they ended up doing a better job! Discovery pricing: In the UK and in Australia, the Discovery does compete with other Japanese 4x4s in terms of pricing. However, in the US, because of its social status, LR can maximize its selling price. Most (or all?) LR dealers in the US appear to be associated with other expensive (snooty) car manufacturers and the dealers act appropriately snooty). I agree that the SF dealer is not very pleasant. RAB (San Rafael) and Cole Eurpean (Walnut Creek) are slightly better. 4wd Safety: In addition to the US and UK, 4wd crash test information is also available in reports from the Federal Office of Road Safety and Monash University's Accident Research Centre (Australia). Newsletters: In submitting your "shameless solicitations," please indicate your mailing addresses and currency. For the OVLR, I assume the cost is $20 CDN. (Need address.) Unimog: Are Unimogs unpleasant to drive? I saw one (European plates) on the Dempster summer 93 and it appeared to move like any other truck. If the top speed was 46 mph, he must have taken quite a while to get across the Trans-Canada Highway! G-Wagen: Why is it a "horrible" vehicle? I understand it was developed for use by NATO but was too expensive to produce. The vehicle looks good, the specs look good ... Motorweek(?) had a blurb about the G-Wagen. Although the price of the G-Wagen is similar to a comparable Range Rover in the UK., it costs about $116K in the US. From "Peter C. Parsons" Tue Jan 17 14:44:08 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 14:44:08 -0700 From: "Peter C. Parsons" Subject: Cost of Disco Roger, I bought my Disco ('94 model) in October of 1994, in Denver. The choices were by it 'stripped' - cloth seats, no rear air, or jump seats, no sunroof (in the back at least) - for about $29,500.00 OR buy it 'loaded' - leather seats, dual sun-roofs, rear A.C., jumpseats - for $34,600.00. This is for a 5 speed. Neither one comes with any brush bars, ANY floormats, or CD-Rom changer. There was no haggling on the price there either. The dealer was disappointed that I chose not to purchase all the goodies through them. The dealer wanted $20 more than Rovers North for carpet floormats, about $320 more for the CD changer, and I forget the other costs, but all were substantially higher the BA or RN. I hear that the '95 model cost was increased about $600.00, and the automatic is, of couse, more. So the price your friend was quoted seems *gasp* in line with the prices here in Denver. For that money, the dealer better ooze customer service, or I'd go elsewhere immediatly :-) Good luck to your friend. Once the pain of writing the check subsides, the joys of Rovering can begin! -Peter _______ |--' | \_|_ |___ +-- ] [|_/-\____/-\|} (O) (O) '94 Disco -Peter C. Parsons, pparsons@ppsol.com __________ |/\^_/v^/\^| | SKYROVR | |_colorado_| From rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Tue Jan 17 14:38:24 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 14:38:24 PST From: rpeng@cadev6.intel.com Subject: Interesting Ad Just saw the following interesting Ad on the net: Article: 16023 of ba.market.vehicles Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 18:44:13 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: WWWhere? Greg Hiner mentioned awhile back that he needed to move the web. (I cannot volunteer as access to within is restricted from without for security reasons...). Did it get moved?? Did the Rooth archive go with it??? Months ago we had a major crash here, and my supply of inspirational readings went south, along with lots of "real" stuff (can you say back-up, can you say frequently?, can you say dope?). If anyone can direct me to the new location and/or supply me with the contents of the rooth archive I shall be forever grateful. thanks in advance, rd/nigel From brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Tue Jan 17 16:06:12 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 95 16:06:12 PST From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Subject: Re: Discos cost too much? I agree about the SF dealer -- I use the one in Walnut Creek. They are excellent John From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Tue Jan 17 15:12:58 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 15:12:58 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: Various... Back from four days skiing...or rather, one day skiing, three days looking at the rain. Did I say "worst possible forecast" was 'sunny and warm'? How about Marty Feldman's line from "Young Frankenstein" - "could be worse...could be raining...." (After 28 yrs on the slopes, I don't *have* to get out each day!) Anyway, about the middle of the third day, several of us decided to go out four wheelin' as the rain had made for some fine West Virginia mud. The rivers were all flowing fast and the passengers were a bit unnerved crossing a "low water" bridge (paved-over culverts, with about 12" pouring over the road surface. Did have to replace the patched-up solenoid though, but I had two spares along: an older one plus a new "genuine part". Not realising I had the 'GP' in stock, I ordered a third from ABP before I left town. BTW, both the "no-namo" ABP unit (in a plain brown wrapper) and the "genuine parts" RN one (with the little logos all over) both have two central terminals (in addition to the two 5/16 studs). If one is for the ignition circuit to energize the switch, what's the other for....a damned convenient place for hot-wiring? Some interlock to the clutch/brake pedal like on new cars? Need to test it out.... Had a most unusual experience driving to the mountains: I met my twin coming the other way! Rounded a corner and lo and behold, here comes another '72 faded marine blue 88 with brush guards, off-road lights and a newly installed radiator muff! With Hawiian plates no less. Seems the chap is in the army and has been posted to Sugar Grove, WV for a year...though I've been through Sugar Grove - blink and you've missed it - can't imagine any bases or the need for one nearby (unless it's some covert facility). I hope he'll join the club. To Carl Byrne who's brother has been boasting about his cheep. Just say two words: "Camel Trophy". When was the last time jeeps were used? Only in the first one, and they were never considered again due to their shortcomings. I think my sig.block says it all.... Walter Swain poses the ludicrous question of a Cadillac 4X4...well truth is stranger than fiction, because just such a vehicle is in the works for '96 or '97. Eying (enviously) Land Rover's skyrocketing sales, Caddy will enter the "upscale" or luxury SUV market in a few years (as will Jaguar on a Ford Explorer chasis). I mean, what other marque typifies mechanical durability, agility and off-road dependability better than "Cadillac"? *ROTFL* Oldsmobile tried this a few years ago with the Bravada, but when was the last time you say an Oldsmobile off-roading in Borneo??? And to Dixon...the club's annual dues are $15. We usually publish the newsletter quarterly, but last year there were six. Size is kept to 10 pages (just under one ounce for mailing) with about 50-70k of text. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Wed Jan 18 01:27:20 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 01:27:20 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: re: plunged vs Rolled Roger Sinasohn writes that it would be about a 2.5 second fall and calculates the terminal velocity of 70kph for a 2 second fall: Actually 70kph is 42 mph, but that extra half-second falling would 'cellerate an object in free fall to ~52mph. (My back-of-the-bar-coaster calculations, not unlike yours, were also done for 1 significant digit, however, I rounded up (a 3 second fall), while you truncated :-). This annotation brought to you from the Team.Net center for 'lies, damn lies, and statistics' Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Wed Jan 18 01:27:11 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 01:27:11 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: re: plunged vs Rolled Roger Sinasohn writes that it would be about a 2.5 second fall and calculates the terminal velocity of 70kph for a 2 second fall: Actually 70kph is 42 mph, but that extra half-second falling would 'cellerate an object in free fall to ~52mph. (My back-of-the-bar-coaster calculations, not unlike yours, were also done for 1 significant digit, however, I rounded up (a 3 second fall), while you truncated :-). This annotation brought to you from the Team.Net center for 'lies, damn lies, and statistics' Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From Rodney Alan Walker Wed Jan 18 13:01:43 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 13:01:43 +1000 From: Rodney Alan Walker Subject: John Craddocks Can anyone give me the fax number for John Craddocks? I have been looking through all my literrature but they only ever seem to give their phone number. Also does anyone know of any other good series 1 parts warehouses? Rod Walker 55 86" Series I 52 80" Series I From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Tue Jan 17 20:20:06 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 20:20:06 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: Smog update Hello everyone, this is the final update. I went to the official Ca state referee station today; they inspected the rover, gave it a smog test and then gave me a waiver because I failed. results: pcv system-pass, carberetor-pass, other emissions related components-pass (I don't think this applies, all I needed was a pcv valve). 2500 rpm: HC ppm 0169, CO% 0.30, CO2 13.1, O2 2.5 no requirements for me at 2500 but they test anyway! Idle rpm (unknown what speeds are officially valid but I think something like 750-1100) my test done at 1078. HC ppm 0501 (500 allowed) <--FAIL CO% 3.00% (5.50 allowed) CO2 12.7 O2 0.8 So, I failed for 1 ppm HC. Note: Steve at British Pacific says ARCO gas is good for a 10% reduction BUT I didn't use it. I did change from 92 octane Union 76 gas for the last fail TO Union 76 89 octane for this fail. As far as I know, no other changes were made. At the time of my last fail, I was supposedly at 550 ppm HC. Could lower octane gas caause lower HC emissions? Sounds fishy to me. Important for CA people. If you fail SMOG in 1995, you must now spend $450 to fix it. If you cannot get the vehicle to pass, you are given a one time exemption. I don't know what happens after that. I drove by DMV to file the smog waiver and statement from maine saying no title is issued for cars older than 1984 but the line was practically out the door. Since this is Davis, when the line is often nonexistent, I'll try another day. Thanks to those of you who offered help. john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! From jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Tue Jan 17 20:24:55 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 20:24:55 -0800 From: jfhess@ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: Ho Ho Hong I just got my Happy New Year card from John Hong. It's great!!! I don't think I have anything to compare to it, just a couple of regular pics, the old me standing by my rover type. I think that Kathy, Alex and I will now be forced to use our heads and come up with a really good photo of us and the Dormobile. I guess we've got all year 8^). Congratulations John great christmas card! john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem Land- -Rover, Sunbeam Tiger and Mazda owner! From Roger Sinasohn Tue Jan 17 20:23:54 1995 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 20:23:54 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: Re: Cadillacs and Rovers Brad Blevins (unclebrad@aol.com) is the editor of the Aluminum Workhorse, the newsletter for the Land Rover Owners Association of North America. (Or something like that.) Anyway, annual dues are only $20 for 4 quarterly issues From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Wed Jan 18 09:54:44 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:54:44 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Crashing 101 Assorted folk say:- \I may be wrong here,but I always thought that the rule when \cornering was "Slow In Fast Out".In other words the one thing \you *dont* do is to take your clog off on a bend.The thing \will run wide.Stick the aforementioned clog *down* however, \and it will hang its tail out and corner more tightly. \Of course you can always overdo it,in which case it will \spin.Tough.You entered the bend too fast in the first place, \didnt you? Nope. It depends very heavily on teh geometry of the vehicle. Your entry and exit speeds are governed by the ratio of power/handling of your vehicle. The more power, or the worse handling, the more you go for the Slow in Fast out line. You enter deeply, braking late, to a late, slow apex, then blast out of the corner on a straight exit line. This allows you to favour your power adn keep away from the handling problems. So you take a very assymetric line thru the corner with maximum speed variation. A car with less power/better handling will optimally brake to an earlier, faster apex, on a a more symmetric line. (To coast round a corner you would take a perfectly symmetric, constant radius arc.) As for throttle balance, this is an art form. Most modern cars (be they front- rear- or four-wheel-drive), including my 90, are set up for understeer. This is safer for gits that cant drive. In an emergency, they panic, close their eyes adn lock solid. Wiht understeer, the car will probably catch itself. But this means that, to provoke oversteer, you must load the front, unweight the rear, adn pendulum it, much like initiating a Christie turn on skis. So you lift off the throttle, adn reapply it monemtarily after turning in. Only after this point will applying the boot make the car tighten up. Before provoking oversteer, more throttle just makes it plough straight on as the front wheels lose traction, and lifting off is most likely to make it spin. /As for Sefans comment about a four wheel skid being more dangerous than /a two wheel one,I'm not quite sure what the paper meant.In fact,I'd /hazard a guess that the reporter knew bugger all about it as well. /They dont usually impress me with their technical expertise. /With a beam axled vehicle,a four wheel *drift* is possible,whether /all four wheels are powered or not.Again,as Tom rightly says,an empty /icy car park will prove most instructive and enjoyable.I've never /managed a four wheel drift with independant front suspension only, /but used to thoroughly enjoy the manoeuvre in my 1931 MG.I hasten to /add at about four in the morning,with *no* other traffic about,and a /nice greasy road surface.Ok,I know,a Range Rover it wasnt,but the /effect was there,and provided suitable intelligence is applied,I'm Any car can be set up for front, rear or four wheel drifts as desired. It requires the correct throttle balance adn gentling the steering wheel at teh right time. Depending on teh car, it can be easy or hard. Minis understeer like hell adn are front wheel drive, but I could set mine up to corner with the rear wheels sliding all round the corner; but it was hard work. \I think it's naive in the extreme to expect a vehicle in the 1 to 2 tonne \range range with immense wheel articulation and permanent 4WD to handle \like a 750kg road car. Four wheel drives need a different approach to \driving and some experience to drive at the limit. The trouble is, many \drivers don't even seem to know they are at the limit. Four wheel drives (particularly with wide torque curves) benefit from left foot braking. Balancing the brake against the throttle entering a corner allows me to balance the 90 to hang all four, or just the rears depending on where I am going adn how I want to get there. It's natural tendency is to front wheel drifts:( wide torque curves to minimise shifts) In the end event, the only way to find how to do this stuff is to try it adn listen to the car talk to you. Find an empty parking lot (preferably covered in snow) and try it. If you cant control a vehicle with the wheels drfiting nearly as fluently as with them fully attached, you are not a safe driver, cos you will cock up if (when) you exceed the traction limits unexpectedly. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Wed Jan 18 09:57:41 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 09:57:41 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Emissions \I went to the official Ca state referee station today; they inspected the \rover, gave it a smog test and then gave me a waiver because I failed. \results: pcv system-pass, carberetor-pass, other emissions related \components-pass (I don't think this applies, all I needed was a pcv valve). \2500 rpm: HC ppm 0169, CO% 0.30, CO2 13.1, O2 2.5 \no requirements for me at 2500 but they test anyway! \ \Idle rpm (unknown what speeds are officially valid but I think something \like 750-1100) my test done at 1078. \HC ppm 0501 (500 allowed) <--FAIL \CO% 3.00% (5.50 allowed) \CO2 12.7 \O2 0.8 \ \So, I failed for 1 ppm HC. I had the first emission test since my timing gear conversion. The figures were unbeleivably low. The mechanic had to get his machine checked........... I was gobsmacked. Emissions test hold no fear for me now, cos the timing's fixed for life. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 18 95 Jan EST 1905 Date: 18 Jan 95 05:22:55 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Interesting Ad > ...snip... > ENGINE: 170 HP 6.5 LITRE TURBO DIESEL V-8 > ...snip... > ENGINE: GAS 6 CYLINDER ...... > ...etc... What kind of funky engines are those??? Can't be Rover ... neither BMW From Jimmy Patrick Wed Jan 18 06:33:51 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 06:33:51 -0500 From: Jimmy Patrick Subject: random rants LROs, I have gotten most of my electrical problems sorted now. PO wired the thing completely wrong. The alternator positive lead was wired to the fuse box and then right back to the coil. Hence no off switch. in fixing that little blunder, I broke the ammeter cicuit. Anyone know where the ammeter should be connected. All my wiring diagrams show either a dynamo/ammeter combo or an alternator with no ammeter. Any ideas? Also I have a squeaking noise that I would like to know about. It seems that when I go from engine pulling to engine braking, I get the sqeaking noises of 50-60 large mice. Anyone ever hear this one? Where should I look to trace this one down? Or is it normal for a 35 year old? I got new Trac Edge 7.50x16s yesterday and they make an incredible difference over the old crossplys. No more leaping into other lanes for me. I guess the general concencus is that they will perform well off-road as well. We'll have to see about that. "The you must be dreaming (again) department..." Wouldn't it be cool if the Camel Trophy had a WWW page that was updated daily? taking advantage of the latest digital technology etc... Some of the reporters on the trophy must use digital cameras and laptops right... Sattellite uplinks from the middle of Central America... And there is certainly an audience out here to look at the pages each day... Get the Camel name out here on the internet... "wake up!" Sorry to natter on that way! cheers, Jimmy Patrick -- CKS|Partners 0344-382114 Advertising & Marketing Communications fax 0344-303192 From mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Wed Jan 18 06:09:19 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 06:09:19 PST From: mtalbot@InterServ.Com (Mark Talbot) Subject: Re: Prince of darkness, All, Looks like the electrically prince has struck the Range Rover, Twice this week the fuse to the fuel pump has blown. In the N.E we have had excessive moisture, wonder if that has caused it ?? Any ideas where to start, I presume that this must be short somewhere in the fuel pump electrics. I have replaced the 10 amp fuse with a 15amp, seems to hold so far. Any ideas where start anyone ???? Mark From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Wed Jan 18 09:47:27 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 09:47:27 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Yes, there are new 90 and 110s somewhere in North America that will be sold in the US at arounf $16,000. To the best of my knowledge these vehicles are being sold by a company called Autobus and are brand new, having been purchased on a Blanket Purchase Agreement (BPA) to the US Federal Government. Having once been acting software branch chief of Diplomatic Security at the Department of State, I made some inquiries to try and find the source of these vehicles to circumvent the 25 to 30% markup and to try to purchase just one. Those contacted, at State and within the office of the Inspector General tell the following: That the vehicles are outside the Federal Property Disposal System(s) within DoD and other "official" organizations, so to my knowledge only a few select individuals know where the vehicles actually are and what organization is selling them. Autobus was probably contacted by the seller to act as a broker. Autobus (and there may be others) may not want to deal with "joe public" and may be offering the vehicles in lots of 15 so that dealers and organized groups will make the purchase(s). And the Rangers bought some Land Rovers back in 1992 and other federal/sudo-federal organizations were allowed to buy from the Army BPA. Some Clandestine group may own then (Delta Force or CIA) that disposes of there own equipment. The vehicles could also have been part of an international force that has been disbanded. It was thought that at one time there was going to be "international" forces after the Gulf War, but I have not talked to anyone who admits to this. In the paperwork I believe that if you as a buyer find the source of the LRs and buy one without going through Autobus (may have mispelled this), then you still owe Autobus the difference from what you paid and what Autobus will ultimately sell them for. That is if you sign up with Autobus to but LRs and find out the mysterous seller and but your LR cheeper than the $16,000 or so, then you owe Autobus the difference. (can't type try again) That is if you sign up with autobus to buy a defend , but locate the source of the Land Rovers and buy one for say $12,000, then Autobus wants $4,000 and is prepaired to sue to get it. (Hope this is understandable bad typing today) Anyone have any more accurate/ additional info? R&D From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Wed Jan 18 09:52:53 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 09:52:53 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Well gang: Just may crank up the Mercruiser this evening. I finshed the Alternator and idler brackets Monday. If things go well during the remaining evenings this week, there may be a transplant going in this weekend. 127 ft. lb. torque and 140 hp - Mercruiser 140. I apoligize for all my typing mistakes. I get distracted at work and this leads to typing errors. When I later read what I have typed I become my worst critic. Will keep you posted on the conversion. R&D From Russell Burns Wed Jan 18 7:14:43 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 7:14:43 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Prince of darkness, I have found that Land-Rover likes to use wireing as lock-washers. I have found 4 or five of these In my rover the Fuel pump is accessable from the cargo area. That would be the first place to look. The area around the electrical connectors collects a lot of dirt, and moisture. Russ 91 R-Rover 94 d-90 > All, > Looks like the electrically prince has struck the Range Rover, Twice this week [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > Any ideas where start anyone ???? > Mark From Bill Yerazunis Wed Jan 18 10:16:05 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 10:16:05 +0500 From: Bill Yerazunis Subject: Disco availability Re: that fellow who was looking for a dealer with Discoverys in stock: Try Foreign Motors West, in Natick, MA. 617-235-9096 will get you the main office; the LR subgroup has a different number which I don't have here. If you're in Darien, CT, you're about three hours drive away. -Bill (94 Discovery, 25Kmiles) From Russell Burns Wed Jan 18 7:29:32 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 7:29:32 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: D-90 prince of darkness problems. I think I may have isolated one of my Lucas/Electrical problems. It seems that Landrover mounted the ECu computer with a stud from the Heater unit. The stud is about a quarter of an inch to long, and was stressing the connector. I installed a couple of washers to keep the stud from pressing on the ECU connector and my chech engine light has stayed off. Russ 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Wed Jan 18 10:52:08 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 10:52:08 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest More on the new 1992 90s and 110s. For those of you ready to buy, keep in mind the wording of the advertisement: "ALL VEHICLES ARE BUILT TO MILITARY SPECIFICATIONS WITH CALIFORNIA EPA AND DOT APPROVAL". This sentenance actually means that the EPA and DOT does not disapprove of the specifications that the military uses for its vehicles. It also does not mean that the vehicles are DOT and EPA approved, because the military is exempt from EPA and DOT standards. I suspect that these vehicles are not EPA and DOT approved. If they were within any Federal Disposal System and were not EPA/DOT approved then they would be scrapped. Scrapped could mean cut up with a tourch and later melted down to form something else. These vehicles could exist, there is no doubt, but does anyone know where they are? R&D From Russell U Wilson Wed Jan 18 11:07:57 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 11:07:57 -0500 (EST) From: Russell U Wilson Subject: Heaters I have a '67 88 that's RHD that still has the original Smiths heater.....heater is a very generous description of this thing. What I need to know is if anyone has any ideas about a ggod replacement for this thing. I've seen the Mansfield heater in the Rovers North cat. I love being warm as much as the next guy but that little operation would cost a bit more than I wanted to spend. Does anyone know of another heater type that would work in a Rover? Thanks for any help. Russ From "Mugele, Gerry" Wed Jan 18 08:15:00 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 08:15:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: Gelandewagens For Mike Rooth: Mike a few days ago you had some unkind words for the "G-Wagon". Over here, in the colonies, we don't get to see many of these yet. They are not "certified" for sale by the federal gummint and therefore are always here in questionable status. I didn't even know the things existed until about ten years ago. Being a fan of M-B products as well as L-Rs....owned examples of both for the last 25 years...before the reintroduction of L-R to the U.S. market, I was thinking that eventually I'd hafta get a Gelande, say a 300D SWB. Now, in the digest, I've seen consistently disparaging remarks. What gives? What's wrong with these things? (Yes I have been crazed enough to consider a Unimog, but those things are just a little to bizarre (and over priced) even for me.) Now I understand that M-B plan to build the G-Wagon in the U.S. somewhere and that they will hit the market here in about '97 or '98...so please tell me why I should stop hoarding my $s and go get that used 90 from the little old lady down the street.:-) Thanks Gerry '72 88" SW From "Mugele, Gerry" Wed Jan 18 08:41:00 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 08:41:00 PST From: "Mugele, Gerry" Subject: For Barry Dudley Hi, I had a 67 Series IIa 88" with a massive skid plate from radiator to rear propeller shaft. The plate attached to the chassis at eight points and greatly improved the rigidity (according to an engineer friend, I couldn't tell by driving it) and caused some cooling problems at low speed with ambient temps around 28 degrees C. I had my other L-R's in some really rough country and bumped the diff's a few times and the sump once or twice and I've high-centered it a half dozen times. No damage beyond the cosmetic. With the skid plate I found that the oil leaks combined with other material picked up from the road and fields caused a considerable build up of crud on the upper surface of the plate and created quite a fire hazard. (I did have one minor conflagration, but that's another story). The plate also made roadside repairs considerably more of a pain. I'd recommend against unless you know you're going to encounter some specific hazard that will likely cause permanent damage. I'd rather just be a little more careful about traversing the really rough spots and try to keep the sharp pieces from coming into contact with my beasts underside. And as an aside...would you know a character in the Natal area name of Bill Cairns? When I last heard of him he was at the U of Natal. That was back in the 60s. His family had a farm somewhere in the vacinity of Pietermaritzberg (spelling?). He was exchange student to the US in 61-62 and stayed with my family. Any information you might find would be appreciated. Thanks, Gerry 72 88" SW From Easton Trevor Mon Jan 16 09:21:00 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 09:21:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: I'm mad as hell - the sequel As Jim Pappa so rightly says, the problem with vehicle safety (or Assault rifles or sexual orientation or ..............) is the media. One only needs to be involved directly with something they report upon to realise that, be they the National Enquirer, New York Times or national TV, the written word bears scant relation to the actual event. A good example is the recent Pentium Fault fiasco. Will you die in your Range Rover or have a life threatening fault in your PC? Did they use Pentuims when designing the Discovery? Remember before launching into a long discussion or passing an "educated " opinion, the media are really only selling a ciculation to their advertisers not bringing you the news. It has even been suggested that on a slow day they will create the news themselves. I cannot believe they would stoop so low, but then I'm rather naive. Trevor Easton TEASTON@dqc2.dofasco.ca From terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Sat Jun 18 17:55:43 1994 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 1994 17:55:43 +0200 From: terje@tvnorge.no (Terje Krogdahl) Subject: Re: John Craddocks >Can anyone give me the fax number for John Craddocks? I have been Tel: +44 543 57 72 07 +44 543 50 54 08 Fax: +44 543 50 48 18 Terje Krogdahl '72 88" From Easton Trevor Mon Jan 16 12:49:00 1995 Date: Mon, 16 Jan 95 12:49:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Club Memberships Further to Dixon Kenners note. I am editor of the Toronto Area Rover Club news, a one year membership which gets you six issues of Land Rover and Rover news is $22 Canadian or $16 US. Send to:- Toronto Area Rover Club c/o Philip Rodriques 17 Gordonrock Court, Scarborough, ONTMIW 3S9 (Please mention Internet referal) From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Wed Jan 18 12:29:17 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 12:29:17 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: Emissions > I had the first emission test since my timing gear conversion. none Is this the gears and shaft that replace the cam drive chain? If so,where do I get one? How much? Regards, Bill G. From Benjamin Allan Smith Wed Jan 18 13:43:59 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 13:43:59 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: Smog update In message <199501180420.UAA08924@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu>you wrote: > Important for CA people. If you fail SMOG in 1995, you must now spend $450 > to fix it. If you cannot get the vehicle to pass, you are given a one time > exemption. I don't know what happens after that. Is this for all cars or cars built after a certain date? When I first looked into this, there was a sliding scale of how much you had to spend to attempt to get it to pass smog before you could give up and get the exemption. As I recall the max is/was about $300 for current cars, but $0 for my 1972. And pre 1968 cars were exempt from Smog. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From David John Place Wed Jan 18 16:52:26 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 16:52:26 -0600 (CST) From: David John Place Subject: Camel Trophey 95 I just received a call from my dealer. He has arranged for me to receive a copy of the Camel Trophy 95. You might want to check with your local dealers to see if they too have a copy. I have made a deal that if I lend him my rebuilt 88 IIA, he will let me drive a Disco or Discouvery. Not a bad trade I should think! Dave VE4PN From William Caloccia Wed Jan 18 18:09:05 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 18:09:05 -0500 From: William Caloccia Subject: Messages sent to the list should be addressed to lro@team.net ------- Forwarded Message >Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 00:36:49 +0200 (METDST) >From: S|ren Vels Christensen >Subject: Re: Heaters >On Wed, 18 Jan 1995, Russell U Wilson wrote: > I have a '67 88 that's RHD that still has the original Smiths > heater.....heater is a very generous description of this thing. What I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > type that would work in a Rover? Thanks for any help. > Russ Hi I have heard/read that the Kodiak but i haven't tried it myself. But i have been thinking of improving the heating system. Tap rebuild, new hoses and perhaps drilling nozzles could improve the heating (sIII Smiths). Next step: buying two electrical defrosters, taking out the heat coils, putting them in a suitable length of alu-tube, replacing the connecting hoses to the defrosters with the beforementioned assy. Then maybe a 5mm fitting in the tubes with a plastic hose leading to the sides defrosting the side windows, -especially the "not"-steering side. I'm using 150x200mm truck mirrors. Perhaps 3mm fitting on the top of the back plate and a 3mm hole on the bottom. A plastic hose connectet as before. Mirror defrosting. My brothers sIII 88" has an electric fan with an on/off toggle switch inside. He also has a radiator muff. Not only does the engine heat up faster and run more economic, - it also improves heating significantly. In fact he had to remove one side of the muff because his feet got fried! The fan came off a totalled Fiat Ritmo and cost next to nothing. What about summer? The previous owner employed the fan only twice last summer when he came off the motorway into the city (Copenhagen has more traffic ligths than intersections). I'll get one too. Do you have draught? I have to align the doortops. All the heat is going out through the unoriginal vents in the back. Perhaps i will rivet some tube-type rubbers on by the doors. Get them cheap in various standard lenghts at any parts/tool shop. BTW, -perhaps some electric mirror heaters from a totalled Nipper would be better. The hot air can be used in the cabin instead. When i got my landy it already had an electric defroster in the back. It's nice to be able to see which type of cars you can get with the trailer hook. Enough heat for now.. +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Wed Jan 18 16:51:36 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 16:51:36 MST From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) Subject: TEST Hi People, Just a test. Seems as if US Worst is not able to keep the e-mail on line any better than dial tone. Please ignore. Thanks! Roy - Rovers in the Rockies Again! No mail. From Russell Burns Wed Jan 18 16:09:08 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 95 16:09:08 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Heaters > On Wed, 18 Jan 1995, Russell U Wilson wrote: > > I have a '67 88 that's RHD that still has the original Smiths [ truncated by lro-digester (was 14 lines)] > > type that would work in a Rover? Thanks for any help. > > Russ If the intake for the heater is the fender vent as on the 90, you could reroute the intake o you suck cabin air instead of Fresh. This would give you a recirculation heater. Russ Burns From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 18 95 Jan EST 1919 Date: 18 Jan 95 19:29:08 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Steering relays etc. The sreering relay can easily be serviced in position, this is preferable to damaging it when trying to remove it from the chassis. remove the steering arms, remove the bottom plate which is secured by 4 screws. carefully push the shaft downwards. DO NOT HAVE ANY PARTS OF THE ANATOMY UNDER THE SHAFT. As the phenolic bearings start to appear place a hose clip around the bearing and tighten it up. This will prevent the bearings from being flung out by the STRONG SPRING. keep pushing the shaft and as the top bearings appear place a hose clip around them too. The assembly can then be serviced, Exercise care in removing the bearings. If the hose clips are carefully relased a little at a time at each end the spring load can be reduced. Reverse the procedure for fitting. I have seen vehicles in which the relay was free to move in the housing, I'd rather have a tight housing. Whilst on the subject of relays the security of the steering arms is critical to the minimisation of steering play, the lower arm is notorious for coming loose in off roading conditions, and if ever left loose for any length of time the splines are badly worn, exacerbating the problem. Now at last I know what Bill Caloccia does all day" he plays with his digits " John Craddocks fax. number is 44 1543 504818. ( note for all non UK readers all UK phone numbers are changing soon with the addition ofa 1 in front of the area code. The new numbers can be used now. Change all those little black books.) Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. ( its now 3 weeks since I last saw a real Land Rover. boo hoo!! From John Hong/C/HQ/3Com 18 95 Jan EDT 1916 Date: 18 Jan 95 16:35:48 EDT From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Subject: Photo exchange... Gosh...shucks...Thanks John Hess and Bill Maloney for the nice comments about my photo. Anybody else interested in swapping photos? Send me one and I'll send you one back! (Craig Murray - it is in the post!) John Hong POB 2697 Santa Clara, CA 95055 USA From Craig Murray Thu Jan 19 12:17:42 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 12:17:42 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Update on the Diesel Hi all, I finally got my diesel tuned, it turns out that my valve timing was out to the billeo! So now my diesel does not blow AS MUCH smoke, and actually has power now!!! Also, my gear box is not as noisy as you all think, as now the motor knocks away, and you can bearly hear the gear box, so this means I now have to get around to putting some sound deadening the engine bay!! but a plus is that my milage should go up from 20 Miles(Imperial) per gallon! But disaster struck at 11:30 on Saturday night, the bit that the bolts into to hold the pully on water pump, fell off!! Luckilly I was near a mates place, so I temporary fix, and left the rover at his place over night, has any-one tried to belt that a bit on the spindle of a water pump, while it is still on the vehicle, if you wish to try it, I advise you not to, as you will just end up tearing all of your hair and that of every one around you out!!! But I have replaced the water pump know so hopefully everything will be alright for a while (fingers crossed!!!) -- ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | From Craig Murray Thu Jan 19 12:03:35 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 12:03:35 EDT From: Craig Murray Subject: Gearing up a IIA Hi all, My brother would like to know if you can get a set of transfer gears for a IIA the will give a Higher high range with out effecting low range gearing, as in one of the recent LRW's, they said that they had a set of transfer gears made up. Any Ideas, I believe personally that you can only get such gears for the Range Rover, Stage 1 and 90, 110 transfer cases. ============================================================================== Craig Murray | 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia | 2.25 diesel LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia | email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au | From Dixon Kenner Wed Jan 18 22:59:48 1995 Date: Wed, 18 Jan 1995 22:59:48 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: Photo exchange... On 18 Jan 1995, John Hong/C/HQ/3Com wrote: > Gosh...shucks...Thanks John Hess and Bill Maloney for the nice comments about > my photo. No comment... :-) Methinks Bill about covered it with his comments (The photo arrived today... ROFL) Rgds, PS. Rather nice Rover. Looks to be in far better shape than most I have seen. You obviously have not been excersising your pet enough... :-) From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Jan 19 00:28:19 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 00:28:19 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: random rants Jimmy straightens out his wiring only to be infested with mice... > I have gotten most of my electrical problems sorted now. PO wired the ----snip----- > Also I have a squeaking noise that I would like to know about. It seems > that when I go from engine pulling to engine braking, I get the sqeaking > noises of 50-60 large mice. Anyone ever hear this one? Where should I look > to trace this one down? Or is it normal for a 35 year old? Jimmy.. I'm over 35 and hardly squeak at all! :-) Oh, it the Rover that squeaks.. Just how large *are* these mice and where do they seem to reside?? Any chance that your fan belt could be squeaking? Now that you've sorted out the alternator wiring maybe you actually have an electrical load. That would cause the alternator to "drag" and if the belt is glazed or loose, it could squeak or squeal. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Thu Jan 19 00:28:58 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 00:28:58 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Gelandewagens Gerry.. Tell you what I've heard about the G-wagon (probably all lies, but what the hey). From what I've been told, the bodywork is not built by Mercedes. I believe it's the same company that did the all-wheel drive conversion on the VW Syncro. The VW is nice to drive, but mechanically, it's a bit of a nightmare. The same may apply with the G-wagon. I've also been told that the G-Wagon is prone to rust. Another problem will probably be with parts. The dealer will probably be able to supply engine parts, but maybe not much else. I have seen two G-wagons nearby where I live, which is really suprising since I live out in the sticks. There is a gent north of me who owns a SWB G-wagon outfitted with a winch. He lives up in the hill country and says the truck is great in the winter. The other truck is a LWB and is located more towards civilization. The owner uses it to trailer some sort of BMW to car shows. Both of these trucks look like they are pretty rust-free and run OK. Just the same, save your money and stay with Rovers. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Jan 19 08:03:11 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:03:11 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: newspapers making up stories (Non-LR!) > they will create the news themselves. I cannot believe they would stoop so > low, but then I'm rather naive. For those of you who are not in the UK, we have a .. Comic .. which is printed in tabloid-newspaper format. It's only interested in sleeze, dirt and wacky stories. This periodical (now a *daily* publication) is called The Daily Sport. The broad-minded amongst you may wish to scan this "paper", just don't expect any news! Anyroad - the reason for all this waffle: The 'Sport is known to make up front-page news as a spoof: "Lancaster bomber found on the moon" "London bus found in Antarctica" "Man gives birth to twins" ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do optimists find it full of disappointments. | it in the mud. From Mr Ian Stuart Thu Jan 19 08:42:46 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 08:42:46 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: Heaters > My brothers sIII 88" has an electric fan with an on/off toggle switch > inside. He also has a radiator muff. Not only does the engine heat up > faster and run more economic, - it also improves heating significantly. A cheaper alternative to the padded radiator Muff is one of these large far,-type feeding sacks - most of the people I know tend to use this system after their Muff dies. If you place the sack so that it covers the grill down to the breakfast, you should have enough up top to fold and clamp with the bonnet (especially if you have a type on top :) The sack stays in place by air pressure when travelling but can flap around a bit when stopped. ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# Pessimists are often pleasently suprised by life, |Land Rover owners do optimists find it full of disappointments. | it in the mud. From Mike Rooth Thu Jan 19 9:34:33 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 9:34:33 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Heaters Aluminium cooking foil works quite well,too,perticularly on the wire mesh grilles.Just tuck it round the edges of the grille. When Spring comes(I wish) chuck it away. Cheers Mike Rooth From Fraser.Young@EEC-ISD.eecal.sprint.com Thu Jan 19 06:35:00 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 06:35:00 -0500 From: Fraser.Young@EEC-ISD.eecal.sprint.com Subject: Re: Rover Owner Wannabe has some questions... Re message from Kumaravel Natarajan on Wed, 18 Jan 1995 /But should I go with a 2.25 petrol or the diesel engine? /The gas should give me better acceleration (acceleration? can you use /that word when talking about Rovers?), be easier to get, and should /cause me fewer starting problems in the winter. I've got a 90 with the 2.5l Tdi (107bhp, 188ftlbs at 1800rpm) and have no complaints about acceleration, I've had it start consistently at temperatures down to minus 28 degrees C (Norway). The same cannot be said of the earlier indirect injection diesels from LR, especially when they get older, not unusual to see cans of Easy Start (ether) rolling about in old diesel LRs. A block heater can make a big difference though. The Tdi is by far the most economical, I get typically 30/25 mpg (uk/us gal), min 26/22, max 37/31. The early non turbo diesel seems to be reliable but a bit gutless (58bhp). The turbo (85bhp) has had a bit of bad press with the UK military, by blowing oil out of the crankcase and into the intake through the crankcase vent. The general consensus is that squaddies with foot to floor for long periods is the cause, and that if you treat it with respect can be very reliable. /Did I miss anything? Could anyone add to the advantages/disadvantages /of the gas vs. diesel question? Engine braking, makes those steep descents more controllable. Diesel is safer than petrol/gas. Regards Fraser Young - Aberdeen, Scotland. From "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Thu Jan 19 12:37:00 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 12:37:00 PST From: "Seymour, Gareth - Technician" Subject: ref: info wanted Hi there, A week or so ago I submitted a request for info on offroading in california. Granville (mcdpw) has already been in touch with me directly and has mentioned there have been other replies. Since I submitted the article I have not recieved the digest. I obtained a list from "majordomo" showing all digests from the last month and managed to get the issue with my request but no others with the "get lro-digest xxxxx" command. I have also tried re-subscribing but no joy. So if you replied can you get in touch with me directly on gseymour@sihe.ac.uk Thanks very much, Gareth. P.S. Someone should have noticed the typing mistake on the list of motors I own, it's a 86" series1 not 80". Sorry... From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 19 95 Jan EST 1909 Date: 19 Jan 95 09:39:25 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Gelandewagens Over here, the place is naturally teeming with G-Wagens, especially in Wiesbaden which is a rather 'posh' place as you would say in England... I've had the questionable privilege to try out G-Wagens on two occasions at off-road meets, both diesels, and of course also had in-depth discussions with the owners. Not that I was able to convince them of anything, they are just as much 'hooked' on their Merc-image as we are on Solihulls pride... Well, to get to the point: In most 4WD tests the G is usually compared and measured against the Discovery or (*gasp*) Range Rover, which is utterly stupid. The G is, in terms of comfort, performance, accessories and luxury (or rather the absence of it) only comparable with, and a direct competitor to the Defender TDi or V8. For comfort, design and luxury both the Discovery and even more so the Range are lightyears ahead of the G. As for design and performance of the G, it surely isn't _bad_, quite on the contrary; but there's nothing special about it, either. Frame components, axles and also the diesel engine are basically the stock components used for the classic Mercedes commercial vans since over 15 years, merely the tranny and the diff lock mechanism(s) are a "new" development for the G. The body is plain welded sheet metal not thicker than on any saloon. I had the rare pleasure to drive two G's that were actually being used off-road (most of them aren't), one two years old, the other 6 years. The 6-year old made a pretty worn-out impression, rust around the footwells, tank and rear crossmember, and - even onroad - the chassis and body squeaked and rattled due to worn out body mounts and broken welding spots. Even the windows were loose in their channels. Off-road performance: Impressive, but then again nothing a Defender couldn't just as well do without trying all too hard. Most noticeable difference with the (diesel) engine: It's *much* more quiet than the TDi, almost wispering, and seems to have a longer torque curve (is that what you call it?), *but* it has absolutely no low-down grunt, you want at least 2,500 rpm to deliver some power, and it's a guzzler, nowhere under 15 liter/100km - and that's *ON* road ! Its end speed is noticeably higher than the Defenders (or the Discos for that matter) which of course makes a difference to speed-crazed german Autobahn freaks, but a 3.9 or 4.2 Range Rover would easily put him back in place again in case this is a problem for you. This said, I can't see any justification for pricing the G, in its most basic version, *above* the top-model Range Rover!?! I mean, it just doesn't relate. If you're prepared to spent that kind of money, get a 4.2 litre V8 Range Rover Vogue and enjoy life. If you want a very good - possibly the best - 4WD for off-roading and/or towing, get a Defender and keep the other half of the money for your pension funds - you'll need it, because when you retire the Defender will still be there and want attention... :-) Speaking of Mercedes, the Pontiff has really disappointed me. In Australia of all places he has the nerve to show up with a G-Wagen! Wonder how much that appearance cost Mercedes... Stefan '87 RR | '73 S.III 109 Station From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jan 19 10:11:36 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:11:36 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Big Mice Jimmy - "when I go from engine pulling to engine braking, I get the sqeaking noises of 50-60 large mice." The squeek doesn't ring a bell, but a noise from engine pull to engine break sounds dangerously like a sloppy timing chain (just before it breaks & take your valves out). It's an easy one to check, however. Put a timing light on the car, and if the mark jumps all over the place, especially when you goose the throttle, you've got chain problems. If your oil pressure is running below 50psi on your 1960, this is almost a sure bet. - Sanna From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Thu Jan 19 10:15:33 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 10:15:33 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: G-Wagens FWIW - Mercedes-Benz is building a plant just southwest of Tuscaloosa, Alabama. They plan to be on line by '97. Why Alabama, you say? The state has/is giving MB $110 *million* in free land, highway improvements and tax incentives. ...And you wonder why American industry has such a hard time competing. Hey! I've got it! Build LR's over here! There's an unused Volvo palnt not far away that BMW could pick up for chump change. Volvo spent $65 mil a decade ago to construct a state-of-the-art plant, then never built the first car. Go figure. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From K Schmidt Thu Jan 19 10:54:50 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 10:54:50 EST From: K Schmidt Subject: Re: Heaters > Michael Loiodice says... > Russell Dushing has described his heater as "that piddley round thing" and > the "Smiths shinburner".. I guess you're not particularly impressed with it > either.. Well.. If you luck out, you might be able to find a Kodiak heater > for the Rover. Lots of heat. I have a Kodiak heater in my IIa I can confirm that it gives lots of heat. Before you go and change your present heater make sure that you flush out you heater coil and put in a _new_thermostat_ -- even with the Kodiak I didn't get much heat untill I put in a new 185 thermostat It will probably run too warm in the summer so keep your old one. good luck! Kurt From Easton Trevor Thu Jan 19 09:51:00 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 09:51:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Superbase Who owns the Series III in the Superbase Ad? Are they an active Land Rover owner? Do they frequent regular Land Rover venues? Grey with white hard top and roof rack. California plates (looks like 449 DPL), red kangaroo sticker in back side window, driver wears aussie bush hat, series II door hinges. Can you identify them? I was disappointed. When the poster(?) arrived it was actually a folder and the back of the Landie is cut off, not like in the original ad. Still the creases almost came out when it was laminated. The original ad will probably look better when its mounted and matted. Trevor Easton, Grimsby,Ontario From Sanna@aol.com Thu Jan 19 12:46:16 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 12:46:16 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: Heaters Russel - I scrapped the Smith's years ago and bought one of RN's first Mansfield heaters. It is a VERY good heater. My son & I just drove Lulubelle (leaky canvas top) out to Oregon just after Christmas through -13x windy weather. The Mansfield managed to keep the cabin comfortable, even toasty at times, dispite the considerable drafts that blew through the top. When I bought mine (1980's), RN advertised it as a 2 hour conversion. Mine took way longer than that because the fit was far from perfect. Check to see if they have refined the fittings. I don't know what they are asking for the Mansfeild today, but it was well worth the price I paid. - Sanna@aol.com From Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Thu Jan 19 15:58:36 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:58:36 -0500 From: Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Smith's Heaters Someone mentioned the poor output from the Smith's Heater. I recently removed the blower and core from the bulkhead and shook them out. Lots of stuff fell out. A mouse nest (they must have moved from here to behind the instrument panel); and a cup full of rust (must have been the old footwell). Getting the rust and mouse habitat out seemed to increase the efficiency by 10 degrees. No kidding. But then the winter's been mild here in Baltimore so I really haven't been able to give it a thorough testing. BTW, to keep the heat in...what there is of it...I also added new door seals and used some of that 3M strip caulk on the floorboards. 3m stuff is the way to go. Chris Stevens BCG Corporate Communications 1512 West Joppa Road Towson, Maryland (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) Chrisste@cerf.net From Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Thu Jan 19 15:58:24 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 15:58:24 -0500 From: Chrisste@cerf.net (Chris Stevens) Subject: Brake Bleeding Still trying to get all the air out of my SRIIA 88" brakes. Had the lines disconnected from the master cylinder (dual system with servo) whilst I replaced footwells. Been around the vehicle to each bleeder valve four times. All wheel cylinders are intact...no leaking. No air is showing up in bleeder line...just fluid...but the pedal is soft on first application of brakes. By the second or third application everything works the way it should. Any ideas? Chris Stevens BCG Corporate Communications 1512 West Joppa Road Towson, Maryland (410) 583-1722 (410) 583-1935 (FAX) Chrisste@cerf.net From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Thu Jan 19 16:16:01 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 16:16:01 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Went to the local auto supply, you know the type that will try and send you to the Toyota dealer because they think you just said Land Cruiser. Anyway, I walked up and down thier hoses (hanging on the wall) and sure picked out two that I thought would fit the configuration I need for the lower hose. Got home, tried both. Both fit, one better and now there is nouthing but time keeping me from the test run and installiation of the mercruiser transplant. It is unbelievable how well it fits. This weekend could be the breakthrough, if time allows. Have talked to someone who is going to physically inspect some of those new 1992 Defenders. Will post info as soon as I know something. They are only available in lots of 25 (not 15 as previously stated, sorry for the typo... better that I hit 15 for 25 instead of @5). Someone else out there must know something. Stop scanning and start typing! R&D From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Thu Jan 19 17:03:31 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:03:31 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: Smith's Heaters Chris wrote: none Someone mentioned the poor output from the Smith's Heater. I recently removed the blower and core from the bulkhead and shook them out. Lots of stuff fell out. A mouse nest (they must have moved from here to behind the instrument panel); and a cup full of rust (must have been the old none Sounds familiar. When I pulled the engine from my 109 I stripped it to the firewall and when I pulled off the heater, it was 3/4 packed with insulation in the form of a rodent's nest and had the remains of several small snakes in it. I don't know who the passenger was but the vehicle was purchased in Holland and driven throughout eastern europe in the 70s before being brought over. Clearing it out made a big difference (from none to some) in the heater efficiency. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Jan 19 16:21:31 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:21:31 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: RE: Heaters In the 18 JAN 95 lro digest, Russell Wilson writes: >I have a '67 88 that's RHD that still has the original Smiths >heater.....heater is a very generous description of this thing. What I [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] >a bit more than I wanted to spend. Does anyone know of another heater >type that would work in a Rover? Thanks for any help. Russ, I don't know how cold it is where you are but if not too cold, you might consider the stock fresh-air heater from a later Land-Rover, starting about 1978, in the U.S., I believe. I have found this heater pretty satisfactory in numerous trips to the snow. But I live where temperatures don't drop below about 28 degrees F, even in the snow. This type of heater might be gotten reasonably priced for a used unit. For a new one, it may be more than RN's price for the Mansfield. From what others (in Canada and other such truly frigid places) have said, the Mansfield is the best, followed by the Kodiak which is seen as an option in a lot of older Land-Rovers (before the fresh-air type was standard in the U.S.). You might find a used Kodiak but not too likely. Hope this helps! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Jan 19 16:23:04 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:23:04 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Popping Engine Fellow netters and goo-roos: A local Land-Rover owner friend (Dick Hamilton) has a '69 88 that he has had since it was nearly new. I have seen few as well cared for as this one. Recently, on his way home from having a new clutch installed, he was almost home when he suddenly lost power and there started to be ugly loud noises from "up front." He thought, O.K. I know these symptoms, a blown head gasket. He thought, "That's O.K. because I wanted to do the valves and put in Stellite anyway." Well, when he pulled the head, he found that the head gasket was not blown. It was just the manifold gasket. But he did the valves anyway. Pistons and bores looked O.K. He took the head to the best local machine shop and used new valves, seats, guides, and pushrods from Rovers North. Dick brought the finished head home and carefully installed it with a new gasket set (from RN). He adjusted the valves, cleaned the plugs (didn't need new and gap was O.K.). He didn't mess with the points or or ignition timing. He did not get into the valve timing gear. When Dick got everything carefully assembled, he started the engine and *OUCH* it sounded awful and runs "rough"! The valve gear sounds rather noisy (must have set the valves a little loose) but the horrible part is a VERY loud "popping" noise that you hear coming out of the air filter (stock oil bath). From the cadence, I'd say its coming from one cylinder. Sounds like maybe timing not right (but wasn't changed, seemingly) or maybe a vaccuum leak (sure doesn't look like it; all tight connections, new hoses, etc.). Or maybe a totally burnt valve (obviously not a possibility). He says that this is maybe how it sounded when he first blew the manifold gasket (I didn't hear it then). Could it be that the blown manifold gasket had been that way awhile and that the problem that he thought was the head gasket is still there and not found? In either case, what the hell could it be? We are very puzzled. Before he has it towed to a shop, any thoughts? Anyone? Thanks for any help you can give. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Jan 19 16:21:50 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:21:50 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: RE: Rover Owner Wannabe has some questions... Vel, You have a golden opportunity here. You will be in England long enough to put together a first rate but U.S. legal Land-Rover. If I had that opportunity I would, I think, buy an older Land-Rover ('67 or earlier) with a good body but maybe not such a good frame. Then I would do a coil-sprung chassis conversion using either a new purpose-built chassis such as available from Arrow Services (and others) or a shop-modified, shortened (or, for a 109, lengthened) Range Rover chassis. I would go with a V-8 from a Range Rover because I want MORE POWER than available from any of the four-cylinder (whether petrol or diesel). If funds allowed, I would try to get a chassis from a late Range Rover roll-over, one with EFI V-8 and ABS. I think a nice coiler like this could be built pretty reasonably if you are in England and can shop for all the various bits you would need. Well, that's one of my fantasies, anyway... But even if you don't want to go to that length or expense, I think you'd be missing a great opportunity if you don't bring back some sort of Land-Rover. Of course any you find in England, except military surplus ones, will most likely be right-hand drive. It does cost some $$ to convert to left-hand drive but not too bad on the older ones (which have the same dash panel for both). Have fun! Wish I were going. Maybe I will.... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Thu Jan 19 16:22:45 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 16:22:45 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: RE: Gelandewagenen Gerry, in re your gelandewagenenquestionenundstuffen: First, the G-wagons are built for DB by Steyr-Daimler-Puch in Ostereich[imagine and umlaut over the "O"]. Same folks who bring us the redoubtable Pinzgaur. Second, the "Gelandewagen" that Mercedes is planning to build in the U.S., according to my latest intelligence, will bear no resemblance to the current (real) G-wagens and will probably not even share that name. It is to be a 4x4 people-mover just a little less van-like than the Mazda MPV and probably will be unibody construction. It is supposed to be "affordable." Third, a viticulturalist in my area has an older 4-door G-wagen, a 300GE, and likes it, as far as I know, except that it's pretty gutless ('cuz it's v. heavy). The 300GD would, I rather expect, be more gutless yet. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ G.B.Pool(Redwood Vly, CA, USA)Appraiser,R/W Agent,Land-Rover aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Jan 19 18:12:30 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 18:12:30 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Big Mice > Jimmy - "when I go from engine pulling to engine braking, I get the sqeaking > noises of 50-60 large mice." The squeek doesn't ring a bell, but a noise [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > If your oil pressure is running below 50psi on your 1960, this is almost a > sure bet. - Sanna Or if you don't have a timing light, yank out all the plugs, pull the distributor cap, and rotate the crank (at the water pump/fan pulley) back and forth and look for slop/play in movement of the rotor. Any slop is probably too much. rd/nige From "Russell G. Dushin" Thu Jan 19 18:21:21 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 18:21:21 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Heaters > Russel - I scrapped the Smith's years ago and bought one of RN's first > Mansfield heaters. It is a VERY good heater. My son & I just drove [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > if they have refined the fittings. I don't know what they are asking for the > Mansfeild today, but it was well worth the price I paid. - Sanna@aol.com As I recall, the Mansfield is roughly $500-$700 ish complete nowadays. Did the fitment of the new heater require any mods to the bulkhead (or anything else) or did it bolt right up?? Personally, I like my little smith's heater-it is my passengers that complain! Well, not entirely true, the heater itself complains if it isn't warmed up yet (I get a groan out of the blower motor until the temps rise up to about 65-70 degs C). Never have flushed it, but if I do I suppose it will live up to its name (of shinburner). rd/nigel From Mike Fredette Thu Jan 19 17:19:52 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 17:19:52 -0800 From: Mike Fredette Subject: Re: Popping Engine Granville, Before you guys get too carried away, check those plug wires to make sure they are going to the apropriate cylinder. Rgds Mike Fredette P.S. The gal at Rassmussen is holding a La Ruta Maya patch for me, so I'll try and pick it up this week. Betcha thought I'd forgotten didn't ya? From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Fri Jan 20 01:40:50 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 01:40:50 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: mail bounced back to list Due to a mailer error at the host dqc2.dofasco.ca, the 10 January LRO-Digest was 'bounced' back to list yesterday. The digest Subscribers were spared from the double distribution, because I deleted the errant message before the digest was produced, however the remaining direct subscribers were forwarded this message. In an effort to prevent a similar occurance, I've given Major Domo new orders about how to handle messages addressed to "LRO-Digest@Team.Net". Previous to this incident, messages addressed to "LRO-Digest@Team.Net", were presumed to be destined for the list, and were forwarded to the list. However to avoid such mail loops, Major Domo has been instructed to respond to any message sent to "LRO-Digest", as he would any other message. This may have an adverse affect on a small number of users whose e-mail software doesn't process Reply-To fields properly, or whom have defined that address in place of the supported address for submissions to the list "LRO@Team.Net" Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Fri Jan 20 01:53:31 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 01:53:31 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Minor changes in List Services In the recent couple weeks a number of changes have taken place about the services provided for the mailing list. At this point in time, all of the list processing is done on a host in the United Kingdom by the Major Domo list server. This host is now also the home of 'Team.Net'. Essentially, this should not alter the level of service provided. Please do note that the addresses for the Land Rover Owner list, or other Team.Net lists which used to work as ...@transfer.stratus.com or ...@stratus.com are likely to no longer work, as that host is no longer the home of Team.Net nor is it the home of the Land Rover Owner mailing list. Major Domo, the list server for the Land Rover Owner lists can still be reached at majordomo@team.net Contributions to the list should still be sent to land-rover-owner@team.net or the shorter alias: lro@team.net Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From sohearn@InterServ.Com Thu Jan 19 18:19:47 1995 Date: Thu, 19 Jan 95 18:19:47 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: G-Wagon Re the G-Wagon to be built in the U.S. From what I've read it will be nothing like the G-Wagon we know today (available only as a gray-market import in the U.S.). It's intended to compete with SUV's such as the Explorer and the future 4WD offerings from Cadalliac and Infiniti. As such it will be more car than off-road vehicle and odds are (my opinion) will not be as good a blend as the Discovery or Range Rover but then the buying public wants Explorers et al anyway. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 20 95 Jan EST 1906 Date: 20 Jan 95 06:21:37 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Ser 2 gearing and engine noise For some reason my digest down load stopped at message number 26, I note in the contents list that there is an item on Land Rover gearing increase, is this a reqest for info or an article on how to ? If it is a request for info please let me know and I will furnish an 'article' on gearing for ser 1, 2 and 3, Can't do much for the new fangled nineties. Engine squeeking noise!! Most prodably a lubrication problem, or more precisely a lack of lubrication problem. On 2a engines for ex. the rocker gear is lubricated by a pipe from the block to the head, the pipe is fitted by banjo bolts, these bolts have a small hole in them to regulate the flow, if a foriegn body gets lodged in thehole it cuts of the flow of oil to the valve gear with consequences of bearing wear and noise. As another thought, the definition of sqeeking mice is a bit confusing but the noise off power and no noise on power could also be related to the induction system, thus when off power the induction creares a vacuum in the manifold which can draw in air through loose manifold or bad gasket, with engine load the vacuum levl drops and the noise reduces or dissappears or is drowned out by all the other ypical LR noises. Regards Bill Leacock, Limey in exile. From "Mr T.stevenson" Fri Jan 20 11:25:26 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:25:26 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: Heaters I saw an advert for these Mansfield heaters in the current issue of LRO mag which arrived yesterday. What a price! $500 I think. You could buy a lot of pullovers for that. If you can get one, the box-type Smiths heaters as fitted to air-portables put out a lot more heat than the wee round fug-stirrers. My brother fitted a heater out of a scrapped VW Golf (Rabbit?) into his IIa which works very well. Cheers! -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From Carl Byrne Fri Jan 20 12:03:46 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:03:46 GMT From: Carl Byrne Subject: Gareth Seymour Hi Gareth, We have to stop meeting like this someone will talk!! I tried replying to you again even using gseymour@sihe.ac.uk and I still can't get through!!! Perhaps we should resort to the old fashionned telephone - give me your number, I will ring you and perhaps we can sort out this mail problem, once and for all. I don't think Cardiff likes you!! Regards again Carl. Dr.Carl Byrne University of Wales College of Cardiff, Wales. UK. From Mike Rooth Fri Jan 20 12:36:12 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 12:36:12 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Heaters Tom, You've got your LRO? Aaargh!Havent got mine yet.Still,what *do* I expect from an Irish newsagent :-) If the square box heater is better than the round one,the round one must be *really* bad.My 11A box type is barely OK to keep the feet from freezing solid,and defrosting,or melting falling snow is a non-starter.Far as I know,its all clear and working up to spec.I think the trouble is it uses a propellor type fan(to my considerable surprise).At some stage,I want to substitute a tangential fan,if a suitable one can be found,to see if the airflow can be increased. It certainly *should* be possible.I reckon the heater matrix has enough surface area to cope.Dont know whether anyone has already tried this,though. Cheers Mike Rooth From "Mr T.stevenson" Fri Jan 20 11:17:57 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:17:57 +0000 (GMT) From: "Mr T.stevenson" Subject: Blowing diesels Fraser Young mentioned yesterday the problem of the early turbo diesels blowing oil out of the rocker cover and contaminating the air filter. My 90DT used to show traces of oil on the air filter, particularly after long motorway journeys. I was initially very worried about this, especially in view of the price of air filters! However, after a bit of messing about with hoses and DIY manometers, I discovered that the rocker cover was not significantly pressurised; ergo the oil must be being sucked out of the rocker cover by the draw from the intake and ending up on the filter. When I spoke to the mechanics at my local Land Rover garage, they confirmed this to be the case, and showed me a bit of extra plumbing that was fitted to the last of the diesel turbos. Instead of taking a hose direct from the rocker cover breather to the fresh air side of the air filter, it goes to a `cyclone' oil/air separator, where any oil goes back down into the sump (you have to weld a spigot onto the back of the sump) and the air resumes its route back into the air filter. I managed to find one of these cyclones at a Land Rover breakers, and fitted it just after Xmas. This seems to have solved the problem, the air filter now remains free from oil, and the engine doesn't appear to use any at all. -- Tom Stevenson: gbfv08@udcf.gla.ac.uk University Marine Biological Station, Isle of Cumbrae, Scotland Tel:(0475) 530581 Fax:(0475) 530601 From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Fri Jan 20 09:00:11 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 09:00:11 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest To all you out there who have sending Carlos Ortis messages: Some of you think that he is the seller, WRONG. He is only a potential buyer. And if you continue to send him threatning messages you will annoy him to a point where he will not talk to any of us. He is a potential buyer - repeat buyer, not seller. He is the only person that I know of that may be able to beal with the seller, so don't annoy him or schare him off. I don't have the $375,000.00 plus to buy 25, but locally we are trying to arange for a handful. Repeat don't annoy Carlos Ortis. R&D From robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Fri Jan 20 09:44:02 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 09:44:02 EST From: robdav@sunshine.vab.paramax.com (Robert Davis) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest To those of you making a reply to Russell about his heater: His vehicle is RHD, so the later IIA smiths, and Kodiac heaters won't fit. The hoses for the defroster end up just above the area of the bulkhead that houses the door stop. Some of you suggested he remove the core form the box that bolts to his bulkhead and clear out the rodent nests. The 67 RHD does not have the later Smiths heater found on US spec later IIA's. To add a heater to my RHD 109 I used a late IIA smiths heater mounted to the left side of the bulkhead. Moved the air inlet ring of the blower housing to the other side of the fan housing, used an MGB fan and cage (because the motor and rotate in the opposite direction), and cut up the interior distribution box and rewelded it to work on the left hand side. Cot all the appropriate holes through the bulkhead to mount the unit and route the defroster hoses (had to use a special cut out tool and then used an air powered grinding tool with "dental Bits" to finish the fine work. Cut the hole through the fender and used a Series III heater air intake and it works great very costly and about 40 hours. Manisfeild will have to be done the same way because I don't think that RM sells a distribution box for the LH side of the vehicle. Poor Russ has the little round N.W.A.S. Smiths heater. Russ the later Brit spec vehicles used a flat rectangular Smiths heater that mounted to the Bulkhead at used up most of the flat area ahead of the shift lever. I'll try and have my slow friend in England find you one. It works better than the early round heater, but still leaves a lot to be desired. Good Luck R&D From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Fri Jan 20 09:41:09 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:41:09 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: RE: Popping noises & Squeeking Re: Popping noises- Since you've already done the head, and assuming wiring is correct and the same noise occurred before the head was done, I would assume that one or more of the cam followers has worn/broken and the roller is out of place or out of round or a brass slider is broken. Just a thought. Re: Squeeking noises: Since the fan belt has already been covered (are you sure you have the right size - width? If the belt is too narrow, it can slip even if tensioned properly). Both of my Rovers squeak/chatter from the distributor drive bushing when they get dry. I travel with a sqeeze bottle handy on long trips and when it starts up I pull the distributor cap off and let a few drops run down the shaft below the distributor plate assy. It does the trick. As mine sounds like a bunch of very excited gerbils, I am careful not to drive into Grenwich Village when this happens. :-/ Baloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Fri Jan 20 08:22:17 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 08:22:17 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV Subject: '92 Defenders. FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB219 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: '92 Defenders. Can you tell us anything more? Where are these located? I called the phone # listed and was told the same thing, (lots of 25) but he said they were "all over the country", really had VERY LITTLE to say! Maybe between all of "us" netters we could come up with 25. I'm definitely interested, but must sell my '94 Disco first. Please let me know anything you know about this! I posted a note several weeks ago hinting about these vehicles but got no response. I spoke with a friend (series 3 owner) who works for my local LR dealer and he (who told me about this several weeks ago, and wanted me to "fish for info" on the internet) is also interested, and tried to get his dealership to buy a group, but they weren't interested, saying it sounded too fishy for their likes. I tend to agree, it DOES sound fishy, the guy I spoke with answered the phone "Hello." and not with a company name or anything, then gave me the phone # of "his friend" who may have more info (I didn't call the friend) and when I sent a note to the e-mail address, I got the EXACT same posting as someone posted on the team.net. Let's pool our information. If this IS in lots of 25, it's going to take a LOT of cooperation to pull off a purchase. Who knows, if say 10 of us decide to do this (provided it IS above board) then maybe the dealer friend will be able to convince his dealership to go for 15. BTW, what exactly are the engines listed? Are they LR engines? Sounds like "American" (Chevrolet, Dodge, of Ford) engines??? #=======# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |__|__|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | _| | |_ | thing that ever has. "(_)""""""(_)" -Margaret Mead From Sanna@aol.com Fri Jan 20 10:42:05 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:42:05 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: Re: More on the Mansfield I don't recall having to do much, if any, modification to the Rover's bulkhead to fit the Mansfield from RN. There may have been one bracket that I had to cut off (one of two unused steel mounting brackets on the bulkhead - I'm doing this from memory). The rest of the cut & saw work was on the Mansfield's box. Remember, however, that this was one of the first units that RN shipped, and I had quite a conversation with them about it. I took Polaroids of the modifications I had to make, and sent them to RN. They were very accomodating and refunded a good part of the cost for my trouble. I would guess, after all this time, that the Mansfield is a much simpler bolt on operation. From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Fri Jan 20 15:41:18 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 15:41:18 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Timing gears > I had the first emission test since my timing gear conversion. \ Is this the gears and shaft that replace the cam drive chain? If so,where do \I get one? How much? A company called Zeus do em here in teh UK. They consist of a replacement timing cover adn a gear train to replace the cambelt/chain on all LR engines. They are EXPENSIVE (depending on teh model). Mine for a 2.5na deisel 90 was about 450quid + fitting. Other engines seem to be cheaper :( But since the cambelt replacement is scheduled as a 4 hour job, and needs to be done every 50k, then for a first replacement on a new engine you intend to keep for a long time, you come out about even. The advantages are a slight increase in economy (1-2mpg in 30), no obvious increase in power, and a clean exhaust. The timing will not alter like it does with the stretching of belts/chains. An added advantage is that I no longer need to be worried about the belt snapping (which some do after only a few k!!! or if seal leaks adn gets the mrest smigeon of oil on teh belt, they slip!!!) and trashing the engine. This is not unusual in any vehicle, the true frequency of it happening not being publicised for obvious reasons. A surprising number of the cars in the garage I use are there cos of cambelts snapping. Often well before the stated replacement intervals :( If anyone is still interested, I'll post the firm's address, but since me and the source of info will be apart for a couple of weeks, dont hold your breath. I think they advertise regularly in LRO. That's where I found it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Fri Jan 20 15:48:01 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 15:48:01 UNDEFINED From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Gelandewagens /I have seen two G-wagons nearby where I live, which is really suprising /since I live out in the sticks. There is a gent north of me who owns a SWB /G-wagon outfitted with a winch. He lives up in the hill country and says the /truck is great in the winter. The other truck is a LWB and is located more /towards civilization. The owner uses it to trailer some sort of BMW to car /shows. Both of these trucks look like they are pretty rust-free and run OK. I have not driven one, but rememeber an offroad test in Offroad adn Four WHeel Drive, about a decade ago. A few things were tested against each other, including a 110 adn a GWagen. One of the things they stressed was that the GWagen was very good on snowy roads; but everywhere else, all the other 4wds crapped all over it, despite it being teh only one with axle diff locks! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++ None-%er #1 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From WPUSER#123#EDUCATION.OSBE4#c#Jengstro#125#@edu.state.id.us 20 95 Jan MST 1911 Date: 20 Jan 95 11:25:57 MST From: WPUSER#123#EDUCATION.OSBE4#c#Jengstro#125#@edu.state.id.us Subject: Importing Disco I will be in England in May or June. I would like to ask if anyone has had experience purchasing a RR, Disco or 110 for brief use in the UK and then for import to the US. I would also like names and numbers for UK establishments which sell Rovers for export. Thank you. From Easton Trevor Fri Jan 20 05:55:00 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 95 05:55:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: LRO Digest Re:City College,gravity has a force and Steering Play Gravity is an attractive (Cute?) force between two bodies. It causes an acceleration at sea level of about 9.8 m/sec /sec or 32.2 ft/sec/sec. A fall of 20 metre or 65 feet would result in a vertical component of the terminal velocity of about 45 mph. There was probably a horizontal component too, resulting in an actual impact at somewhat more than the 45 mph above. I'm sure the unfortunate occupants of the Range Rover find this all extremely academic. The moral of the story is avoid the sudden disipation of energy be it potential or kinetic because it does nasty things to the anatomy. If you must hit things do it at an angle or make sure they are much smaller than you (hit more Yugo's than Semi's)so you take longer to expend the energy and increase you chances of survival. Remember its not the fall that kills you but the sudden stop at the end! To remove the steering damper from the crossmember. 1.Clean up the area thouroughly. 2. Place rags soaked in a very good penetrating oil all around the top of the unit. 3. Wait a couple of days keeping the rags wet. 4. While you wait cut two plates of 1/2 " steel to fit around the top of the unit and about 10 inches below it, with four holes to take 3/4 or larger threaded rod and cut a short length of heavy wall tube to fit over the bottom shaft of the steering damper smaller than the damper diameter. 5. Put the plate with the centre hole on top of the cross member around the damper, fit the studs and hang the other plate below the cross member. 6. Put a large hydraulic jack between the bottom plate and the tube which fits around the shaft. 7. Extend the jack and the damper will slowly rise up from the crossmember. This is what should happen. Unfortunately the damper which fits snugly into the cross member is often corroded intimately into its home and the forces you generate will serve only to crush the cross member. At this point it is necessary to employ more drastic measures such as the "blue" wrench. I can send a diagram if this explanation is not enough (GIF,TIF,BMP etc you chose) Trevor Easton, Grimsby Ontario TEASTON@DQC2.DOFASCO.COM From Jon Humphrey Fri Jan 20 12:59:07 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 12:59:07 -0500 (EST) From: Jon Humphrey Subject: New Defender 90 sighting I just got invited to lunch at the Vets Hospital here in Pittsburgh, and when I pulled into the lot, there was this beautiful Sassy all black Defender 90. All kinds of light on the front and a bull bar. Ohio licence plate QTY-212. Anybody know who this lucky person is? Or is it somebody on the net, if so---- Nice Vehicle. Later Jon From hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Fri Jan 20 13:03:08 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:03:08 -0600 From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: RoverWeb has moved Thanks goes to Ray Harder for taking on the RoverWeb. The new URL is http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb. It appears that his machine has a little more hp than mine and should be giving everybody better service. I've enjoyed working on the web over the last year but it is time to hand it off and take a break. Best- Greg From bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Fri Jan 20 14:10:52 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 14:10:52 -0500 From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: IIA transmissions While I was working on my emergency brake, I noticed that there was about a 1/4" of play in the rear driveshaft flange on the transfer box. I found that someone had forgotten to tighten the nut on the shaft, and then had apparently forgotten the cotter pin as well! Tightening it seemed to eliminate most of the play, but I can still move the shaft a good 1/16" up and down. What I was wondering was if there was any adjustment for the rear bearing that I could tighten up without pulling the transmission. The box is also a bit noisy, in addition to the normal gear whine there is a sort of rushing noise in first and reverse. Does this indicate major problems, or will it limp along for a while? Sooner or later I'll end up rebuilding it anyway, but I really don't have the time until the summer. Thanks fo any info! bcw From Benjamin Allan Smith Fri Jan 20 11:26:36 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:26:36 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: '92 Defenders. David Brown wrote: > Can you tell us anything more? Where are these located? I called the > phone # listed and was told the same thing, (lots of 25) but he said > they were "all over the country", really had VERY LITTLE to say! Maybe This makes it very fishy. Why would a respectible souce have his stock "all over the country?" Likely they were bought in one or two chuncks. And if some of them are still crated, like the advert claims, then they would have been picked up from some one depot. The next really fishy part is that they are being sold in lots of 25, yet being advertised in the internet. For the most part those of us on the internet can only afford one or two. Lots of 5 people like us could afford, lots of 25 dealers can afford. If this character is advertising to us, that means that he was unable to sell them to dealers, hence making this really, really fishy. I was curious and emailed him and also got the call me message. when I called (203 ==Conn) during business hours, I got no answer. Alarms are going off in my head. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From Benjamin Allan Smith Fri Jan 20 11:29:47 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:29:47 -0800 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Subject: Re: LRO Digest In message <2F1F89F7@DQC.DOFASCO.CA>you wrote: > Remember its not the fall that kills you but the sudden stop at the end! Ahh, a typical case of terminal kinetic energy poisoning. -Benjamin Smith ---------------- Science Applications International Corporation China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center bens@archimedes.vislab.navy.mil 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From "Walter C. Swain" Fri Jan 20 13:05:12 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 13:05:12 -0800 (PST) From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: RoverWeb has moved > Thanks goes to Ray Harder for taking on the RoverWeb. The new URL is > http://www.missouri.edu/RoverWeb. -snip- > Greg Thanks for taking the time to make the RoverWeb available to us all. I've made use of it on several occasions, and it's been real useful having a body of basic and sometimes esoteric RoverInfo readily available during my RoverSearch. This is probably as good a time as any to fess up: about 2 weeks ago I finally picked up my "new" 1967 4 cylinder 109 Safari SW in San Francisco, with considerable help from John Hess. The Serial number is 26409173C, so I know it is a Series IIA LHD export model. If anybody can provide any information on its history from personal knowledge or otherwise, I'd like to hear about it. Early Saturday morning we left Davis for SF, and everything went pretty well until the seller discovered that he couldn't find the title. We sorted that out well enough to complete delivery and partial payment, pending his coming up with a title through DMV. It had been smogged, at my insistance and as provided by California requirements. I'd been somewhat concerned because it has a Rochester carb. No problem, and for those who have been following John's hassels with smogging his 1968 European 6, the HC (hydrocarbon) emission was 189. 500 is passing. John was interested in the driving characteristics of the 4 vs his 6 cyl Dormobile, so he drove it to Berkeley where we stopped to look at an 88 semi-runner (stuck valve?), and a 109 non-runner, that were being offered for sale. An interesting respite, (later, I was able to give John Hong a detailed description of the 109, saving him a trip). We took off again for Davis, but had to stop for petrol. The dreaded cap curse struck as I drove off, leaving the it behind. Having been sensitized to such things, John's wife, Kathy, noticed it's absence after we arrived in Davis. Fortunately John was able to supply me with his spare, and we ordered chains to foil the gremlins once and for all. My wife stopped by the station the following day, but it was really, seriously, gone. As for the beast itself, it seems to be in excellent mechanical condition, with recent rebuilds of the engine, transmission, a new superwinch overdrive aFrom "Russell G. Dushin" Sat Jan 21 13:19:33 1995 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 13:19:33 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: sheepdogs The other night on PBS there was a show on sheepdogs.....all kinds of sheepdogs, along with their owners from throughout the uk, australia, new zealand, and the usa. Several rover shots throughout, mostly of 'blindsider' hardtop 88s, and in almost every setting except for the us. Virtually all these rover owners had complete control of their dogs, and hence their sheep, by simple whistle commands given from as far as a mile or so from the flock. Towards the end of the program they move on to the us.....the guy is driving a gmc or somesuch and is only able to herd his flock with a bucket of grain. Did the French do this to us or did we actually loose the Revolution? rd/nige ps the show airs again tonight (saturday) at 7 on PBS. From mkenrick@golder.com Fri Jan 20 09:59:24 1995 Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 09:59:24 -0800 From: mkenrick@golder.com Subject: Range Rover ABS ECM Hello Rovers A newbie plea for help. My '89 Range Rover suffers from perennial AWLS: - ABS Warning Light Syndrome. All efforts to revive the ABS have failed. My mechanic is asking US$ 1,900 for a new Electronic Control Module; DAP are quoting me $1,550, but no exchange or return. I really want to be sure it is the ECM before I shell out this kind of brass. Is there anywhere I can get a unit to switch over and thus prove if this is really the problem. Or should I just forget all about ABS and practice controlling those 4-wheel slides .... +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Michael Kenrick Email: 18105 197th Place NE Home Phone: (206) 788-3100 Woodinville, WA Work Phone: (206) 882-5473 United States of America Work Fax: (206) 882-5498 From Steve Firth Sat Jan 21 23:49:32 1995 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 23:49:32 +0000 From: Steve Firth Subject: Pontiff & RR Stefan R. Jacob said >Speaking of Mercedes, the Pontiff has really disappointed me. In Australia >of all places he has the nerve to show up with a G-Wagen! Wonder how much >that appearance cost Mercedes... I saw an article recently which mentioned that the Range Rover based "Popemobile" used for the Pope's visit to Britain had been restored and is now for sale. BTW Stefan I work in Wiesbaden (well Delkenheim) quite often and I stay in the around the Kurhaus. I see a lot of Land Rovers around the area, I've even seen someone eating at Kaefer's who arrived in Defender 100 V8, and the Landie seemed to be treated as if it were a limousine. Strangely I have never seen a G-Wagen in Wiesbaden, mostly over here. My experience with them classes them firmly as an over-priced competitor to the Defender (without the load space). The diesel is horribly slow, well just horrible and the petrol engine may push the G-wagen to a higher top speed, but takes a long time getting there. Defenders with non-standard diff ratios are faster and more capable off-road. ISTR that the G-Wagen is built by Steyr-Daimler-Puch who make the Fiat Panda 4x4, is this correct. And is there any involvement with the Austrian Hafflinger? Again I remember that both the G-Wagen and the Hafflinger started as military vehicles, but I also thought that the companies were linked. Probably wrong, I usually am! ............................................................................. Firth Consulting Stephen Firth Support Services steve@firthcom.demon.co.uk CIS: 100023,3414 for Biotechnology From maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Sat Jan 21 20:23:25 1995 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 20:23:25 -0500 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: Russ & Sheep & G-wagons etc Russel wrote about the PBS sheepdog segment, and I just finished watching it. In a word, it was BAAAAAAAAAD! (sorry). Fun to see a couple of 88s pulling trailers full of dogs. On the G-Wagon note, all this talk has gotten me curious, and I see that on next week's Motorweek, they will be testing the G-Wagon in Euopean form. In the NY tri-state area, it will be on channel 50, WNJN, the NJ channel. Should be fun. I just got Todd Mills new edition of the Solihull Society newsletter. Nice job, Todd. Good format & the graphics turned out very well. I'm glad I kept my subscription. Someone asked about fuel tank repairs. Britech has 88 fuel tanks for $190, which seems to be a pretty good deal. Their number is 719-392-9514. There was an interesting cartoon on the back with some fairly accurate representations of a 109 wagon, but how about a translation, Todd? Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 21 95 Jan EST 1921 Date: 21 Jan 95 21:21:54 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Digest 21 Jan Heaters, early Morris minor cars were fitted with a round Smiths heater, the core of which is the same diameter but twice the thickness of the LR one, it is posible to put the Morris core in the lr front cover and by modifying the in/out pipes get a bigger and better heater. Brakes : another thing to look for in the poor brake saga is to ensure that the bottom brake shoe pivot is secure, I have seen the bottom pivot become free in the backplate and move backwards and forward under braking, giving poor results. Series 3 manual John Hess, I have a Land Rover Genuine parts workshop manual here in western New York Tel 716 438 0890 home, work phone 716 439 2848 or fax at work, 716 439 2130 Berwick on Tweed is on the border between England and Scotland in the North East of England, around 320 miles or so from London. After sampling the delights of warm beer ( Bill C. can tell you where ) move North to where the beer is much much better. Catch a train in the direction of Edinburgh or by car just leave London on the A1 road ( known as the great north road) and keep right on to the end of the road. ( you'll pass within 8 miles of my proper home in the North East of England, Stockton on Tees - Birthplace of railways ) Whilst travelling on the A1 I recommend that you stop for a at Jacksons of Misson near Bawtry for a parts yard to amaze, then stop at Beamish museum between Darligton and Newcastle for a few hours to see an example of life in 1913. Any other tourist info required give me a call. The play in the gearbox output shaft is well covered in the digest, could'nt have written it better myself. One small clarification to answer Delphi's remarks, The output shaft is located by a pair of taper roller bearings, as the bearings wear the shaft becomes free to move between the fixed outer races, the clearance can then be seen as radial play. The shimming operation pushes the outer races closer together, thus reducing the radial play. It is unlikely that the bearings will have suffered much from this providing the some lubrication was available. It is also, as suggested , worth fitting a new oil seal since the radial play will have enlarged the hole in the seal, reducing it's sealing capacity. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile 67 109. From Russell Burns Sat Jan 21 18:34:15 1995 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 18:34:15 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Range Rover ABS ECM My 91 Rover has a diag plug which is under the front drivers seat. If you short out the black/pink to the black wire the ABS light will flash out codes. There are about 60 codesn and they consits of two numbers ie 2-12 (two flashes followed but 12 flashes) there also is a start phase pause (2.5s) flash(2.5s) pause(2.5) flash(2.5) The code are .5s flashes with a 2.5 sec pause between numbers. If you can get the codes, I will relay you the info. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 . > Hello Rovers > A newbie plea for help. My '89 Range Rover suffers from perennial [ truncated by lro-digester (was 19 lines)] > Woodinville, WA Work Phone: (206) 882-5473 > United States of America Work Fax: (206) 882-5498 From Russell Burns Sat Jan 21 18:54:50 1995 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 18:54:50 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Uncle Lucas, and mt D-90 It seems that I still have not worked out my complimentary problem >From Uncle lucas. Every once in a while The beast has a hard time starting. Today when it happened I had my volt meter with me, and checked out the fuel injection relay, and the fuel pump relay. The both seemed to be fine. I did tug on the wire feeding the fuel pump, and that corrected the problem. If I have the truck on a side hill it seems to aggavate the problem. So I thought it might be a connector being stressed. Well Landrovers Lucas School of electrolux engineering came up with another great engineering feet. They routed the main wiring harness down the middle of the Frame, which is fine. But when the broke off for the feed for the fuel pump they put the connector right behind the passenger rear wheel. Right where all the mud, and Slop can keep it cool.... Once I get it clean, and dry I am going to cover it with some heat shrink. Well I am not too sure If I have found this gremlin, but I am getting closer. Russ Burns 94 D-90 91 R-Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Jan 22 03:15:52 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 03:15:52 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: Range Rover ABS ECM > ABS Warning Light Syndrome. > $1900-->$1,550, but no exchange or return. > ... should I just forget all > about ABS and practice controlling those 4-wheel slides .... Unless you find yourself on snow and ice a lot, and your overdriving to the point that the ABS kicks in 'cause you're doing a panic slow or stop, on a regular basis, I'd recommend that you learn how to brake and steer at the same time. Racers call it 'threshold' braking, 'ABS' is the nearest mechanical approximation to it. Basically, your greatest braking power is from rolling friction, when that forward motion is being turned into heat at the brake discs and where the rubber meets the road. In reality, the rotational speed of the tyre is slightly less than your current speed. If you don't have ABS, and just wail on the brakes, then the wheel stops rotation, and you've lost most of your braking ability. Having a tyre locked in one position sliding across the road doesn't slow the car down that much, 'cause the only thing absorbing the forward motion is the rubber which starts evaporating off the tyre, and over-warm, soft, evaporating rubber next to the road is not anywhere near as efficient as that rotating tyre with the brake engaged. What ABS does is detect that you've stopped a tyre from rotating, and it knows that isn't a good thing, so it basically releases the brake on the wheel you locked up momentarily, some number of times per second (frequency is limited by mechancal parts of the system). [Also, some ABS systems don't treat each tyre as an individual, but act on a pair of tyres at the same time, etc.] If you can figure out, and train yourself not to wail on the brake and put it all the way to the floor when you NEED to stop, then you train yourself to not go all the way to the floor to maintain that 'optimal' threshold (ok, you're human, make it 'near-' optimal) of maximum braking before the brakes lock up. As a bonus, while the wheels are rotating, or as with ABS, mostly rotating, you will still be able to steer the vehicle, something that you can't do when your tyres are locked up and sliding across the pavement. There are lots of place that teach the basic concepts - a fellow in New Hampshire who does police training, etc., occasionally runs his 'Skid School' to auto clubs, or people who've contacted him by word of mouth, etc. First thing you learn how to do is spin a car in a slalom - find out the 'limit' of it handling, then you do a bunch of exercises trying to avoid doing the same, when faced with circumstances where you have to swerve and stop or just do something like an emergency lane change. [Now kids, don't try this in your Suzuki Samauris.] The little known 'National Safety Council' regional offices will usually teach a one-day safe-driving course to the public, and there are any number of racer-wanna-be schools that do one or more day courses on basic car handling. If you have to go to a three day Skip Barber Formual Ford school to learn how to do it, then I can say from experience that that is a much more Fun way to spend $1500+... The principles are the same, 'cept the RR has a bit more body roll and you're higher up, so you move more. I normally make it 5/6ths through the Chiswick round-a-bout in one light cycle, and none of the baby bimmers have beaten me out of it. But then some bimmer drivers aren't deserving of their cars, like my boss who got a 325 status symbol, and spun it on a straight dry road. Brought the rear end around hard enough to screw up the rear end suspension, I guess, it just didn't handle the same way as her sporty little FWD R-19 did. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Sun Jan 22 03:22:55 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 03:22:55 +0100 From: caloccia@team.net (Bill Caloccia) Subject: Re: Digest 21 Jan >Berwick on Tweed is on the border between England and Scotland in the >North East >of England, around 320 miles or so from London. If you're into it, swing by an 'AA' shop and get a Scottish Tourist Board map of Scotland. In the 'places of intrest' marked with stars are _the_ distilleries... > After sampling the delights of warm beer ( Bill C. can tell you where ) move >North to where the beer is much much better. Let me know, I can certianly had some experience finding a pub or two. Say, Bill L, am I correct beling left with the impression that lagers are the preferred drink 'in the north' ? Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover From LANDROVER@delphi.com Sat Jan 21 23:43:34 1995 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 23:43:34 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: sheepdogs Russell can't sleep so he counts sheepdogs... > The other night on PBS there was a show on sheepdogs.....all kinds > of sheepdogs, along with their owners from throughout the uk, > australia, new zealand, and the usa. Several rover shots Back when I was a lad we had sheep and a few beef cattle. We also had four dogs but only one was any good with the livestock. Big gray German Shepard named Irish. It's hard to find a good dog like that. > Did the French do this to us or did we actually loose the > Revolution? > australia, new zealand, and the usa. Several rover shots none The stinkin' French! Bloody hell. I wouldn't put it past them. Did you ever own a French car?? I owned a few.. Two Simca's and an Opel GT (The bodywork was built in France). They were comfortable cars but that's the only good thing I can say about them.. Cheers Mike From sohearn@InterServ.Com Sat Jan 21 21:06:27 1995 Date: Sat, 21 Jan 95 21:06:27 PST From: sohearn@InterServ.Com Subject: Land Rover North America, Inc. Sales Here's some figures I came across re LRNA sales. 1994 Totals: Range Rover 4,082 Defender 90 1,468 Discovery 6,495 ------ Total sales 12,045 (4,907 in 1993 for a 145.5% increase) December 1994 Totals: Range Rover 427 Defender 90 127 Discovery 1,397 ------ Total sales 1,951 (660 in 1993 for a 195.6% increase) - Stephen +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Stephen O'Hearn 1994 LAND- Tread Lightly | | El Segundo, CA, USA DEFENDER -ROVER on Public and | | sohearn@interserv.com 90 The Best 4x4xFar Private Lands | +--------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> 22 95 Jan EST 1901 Date: 22 Jan 95 01:28:56 EST From: Leslie Stutsman <100042.254@compuserve.com> Subject: Busy Busy Busy Hi Everyone. Just read through (browsed a better word actually) a month of digests. Whew.... We have been pretty busy, just keeping up with the Email can be a bit hectic at times! One of the most recent things I wanted to put my 2 cents in was about this 25 Defender 90 deal. We too were/are interested (for obvious reasons) One thing the ad did mention, but seemed to glass over, was the customs duty implications. Many of you might not be aware, but when importing a NEWER vehicle the customs side of things will be a HUGE hassle and can become quite $$costly$$. Unlike an older Land Rover which has no real "book" value for customs to dispute with you, the newer defenders (as well as all new cars) have a book value. What you might not be aware of is that this duty is 25% of book value. Add that into your equation, along with port costs, etc etc - all based on the value, and now how much are you saving. I would investigate very closely before jumping. If any of you would like to discuss with me the questions you might ask to figure out your true costs before forking over big bucks, I would be happy to oblige. If it works out to be worthwhile we may be interested. Have not run the figures yet. I too got the "call my collegue" message, and decided to sit back and hear what y'all had to say. Jimmy P - didn't realise you were having such a fun From Mike Slade Sun Jan 22 09:34:42 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 09:34:42 -0600 (MDT) From: Mike Slade Subject: My First Landy! Well group, As a long time lurker on this newsgroup (6 months), and being to shamed to say anything because I didnUt own yet the vehicle of my dreams, today is the day I break down and submit a little ditty and a few questions to the group at large. I purchased a 66 (?) 88 IIA station wagon two days ago and thought that IUd gotten a pretty good deal at only 4500US dollars. My wife had driven it before with a friend of hers who is a (cough) Land-Cruiser freak who wanted to get a Rover. Well, I finally got to see it and since I had cash, any quirks in performance were somewhat overlooked. I bought it and started to head for the freeway when I started to lose power in 3rd gear. Limping home on the frontage road rather than the highway I was seriously reconsidering ever wanting one of these aluminum beasts in the first place. Funny thing is, the dang thing ran best when I didnUt use the gas pedal at all, and just let it idle with the choke wide open. Speeds of 35 mph were all that I could get. If I tried to use the pedal, it would flood and die. Getting home 4 hours later from what should have been an hour and a half round trip, my wife could tell from the look in my face that I was not very thrilled with what limped into the driveway. I called Bill Davis from Great Basin Rovers in Salt Lake City the next morning. I had met Bill on the LRNA rocky mountain trip to Moab in August, and had kept his number handy, (BTW, Hi Tom Mills, IUve got a great photo of you wearing a groovy turban). Bill was great and said to take it on down to the shop and theyUd see what they could do. Karrie Oldham is the other fellow who runs the shop and he was the one who ended up taking 3 hours of his day to help me get my car back up to snuff. Well, after a new set of plugs, plug wires, rotor, points, and adjusting the tappets, my Rover ran like a whole new beast. I was thrilled, so thrilled in fact that I just had to buy a Land-Rover cap to wear with pride when I couldnUt drive my car grinning from ear to ear. (Thanks Karrie and Bill!) Look them up whenever youUre in Salt Lake! Arriving home from what was one of the greatest driving experiences of my life, and remembering what a different beast it was just the night before, I felt confident in my new purchase. My wife just laughed when I walked in the door because as she put it, she had seen the polar extremes in mood regarding that vehicle. IUm lucky, because sheUs hooked on Landies too! (I hooked her when I took her on that Moab trip and she drive a REALLY nice green Range Rover over a 15 foot drop off and didnUt even flinch). A few questions: Overdrive- Is it best to use it as a half-gear between 3rd and 4th when driving an incline, or not. A few OD pointers would be appreciated. Clutch- Master cylinder drips fluid down the pedal and onto the floormats and my boot. ItUs eating away the rubber on the mat and the sole of my boot, and IUm trying to figure out a way to divert the flow of fluid away from the pedal/left foot until I can either re-build or replace it. Any suggestions? Driving- Has anyone found a way to soften up the seats on a long drive? I donUt want to complain, but my rear end was just getting a little numb on the end of an hour and a half drive home. Well, thatUs it. Now I can wave at Rover owners as they drive by and not feel stupid (like I did when I drove my Trooper). Thanks for all the info IUve gleaned from everyone on the list, I hope IUm not tedious with such a long post but I was just thrilled and had to tell somebody Graciously, Michael Slade SLCN3@CC.USU.EDU From Joseph Broach Sun Jan 22 11:37:15 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 11:37:15 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Ignition system woes, continued Well, Sid's been off the road for three weeks know with his latest ailment. A short recap: It started and drove fine the day before;however, every once in a while it just wouldn't idl or run in the morning (always started fine though). Possible related problems were a miss uphill and carbon fouled plugs which could not be compensated for by carb adjustments. Since it wouldn't even start and I dislike black boxes in the event of a problem (Allison elec. ignition by PO), I proceeded to strip out the elec. ignition and revert back to points. I didn't know whether or not to yank the ballast resistor though, so I left it (could it be a problem??). After the points, etc were in, I got it started after 5-6 tries (by holding choke open, hmmm.) and it idled for about 5 minutes, then I was going to try to move it, but it died as soon as I gave it gas, it hasn't started since. So...plugs,cap,wires,points,condenser,rotor,whew! are new. Coil is Allison 3-4 yrs old. Timing is set to 6 BTDC, don't understand the thumbscrew timing device (where should this be set??). Any ideas?? Its supposed to SNOW! tomorrow for heaven's sake. -rgds, Joseph (Factory Manuals Still on Backorder) Broach '67 IIa 88 From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Sun Jan 22 14:25:14 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 14:25:14 -0800 From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: RE: Steyr-Daimler-Puch and Daimler-Benz Steve, Regarding your comments about the relationship between S-D-P and D-B: [schnipdt] >even seen someone eating at Kaefer's who arrived in Defender 100 V8, and [schnipdt] Defender 100 V8... This is, what, like, some sort of prototype? 8^O >My experience with them classes them firmly as an over-priced competitor to >the Defender (without the load space). The diesel is horribly slow, well >just horrible and the petrol engine may push the G-wagen to a higher top >speed, but takes a long time getting there. Defenders with non-standard >diff ratios are faster and more capable off-road. I, too have felt that the only thing about the G-Wagen that puts in in comparison with the Range Rover is price. I agree with you and others who have said that a more appropriate comparison is with the Defender, which makes the price comparison pretty ugly. And that the only advantage off-road of the G-W is its axle-diff locks. Regarding that putative advantage: I have always had difficulty understanding why L-R has chosen not to make diff-locks available as an option. Even with excellent axle articulation, there certainly are times that diff-lock come in handy. Witness the fact that the M-B Unimog, with axle articulation beyond even that of most modified trials Land-Rovers, has front and rear diff locks, not to mention portal axles... >ISTR that the G-Wagen is built by Steyr-Daimler-Puch who make the Fiat >Panda 4x4, is this correct. And is there any involvement with the Austrian >Hafflinger? Again I remember that both the G-Wagen and the Hafflinger >started as military vehicles, but I also thought that the companies were >linked. Probably wrong, I usually am! I think, for once, at least, that you are right in this. It is my understanding that the diminutive Hafflinger and the more robust Pinzgauer are strictly S-D-P products that were originally designed to the specifications of the Swiss Army. [=Swiss Army knives on wheels...] The Gelandewagen was designed (I think) by D-B to be built be S-D-P. Your posting was the first that I have ever heard that the awd version of the Fiat Panda was breathed on by S-D-P. Surprising in that Fiat is so huge and has fully the capabilities to produce all such in-house. Has had its own military 4x4 for many years in the form of the rather jeepish-looking Campagnola. Saw one "in the metal" many years ago in Ensenada, Mexico, (about 1973, I think). And regarding your earlier comments on the magazine that gave the Geep Grand Tricky the nod over the Disco: Understandable, considering that this is an American mag, that the JGC is a little less pricey, a little more of a road car (for purchasers who mostly only use their vehicles as such), and the inherent bias for MORE POWER... They obviously don't weigh heavily reliability, let alone durability. Far more bizarre, IMNSHO, is the latestonthenewsstand that gives the nod to the Chevy Blazer over the Disco! That truly blows my harried mind. Hard to figure what's weighed there, except that it certainly isn't appearance. I thought the old S-10 Blazer tolerably good-looking but the new one (likewise the old vs new Explorer) really hurts my eyes! A fellow at work has one (new Blazer) which has the added disadvantage (for me) of being white. Fortunately, he tend to park far enough away that I don't usually notice it... The Jeep, I like O.K. If (and only if) the Disco were not available and given that I couln't afford even a low-mileage used RR, I wouldn't turn up my nose at the JGC. At least I like its looks... From Sanna@aol.com Sun Jan 22 19:28:54 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 19:28:54 -0500 From: Sanna@aol.com Subject: ABS - Kenrick My '89 RR never had ABS & stops just fine. My Rover mechanic tells me that the first ABS units where very problematic and that I was lucky not to have ABS on mine. If the brakes work OK, I'd just live with it (you might want to pull the warning light). An '89 has a resale value of under $20k, so your brake repair could be close to 10% of the entire value of the car. From Roger Sinasohn Sun Jan 22 17:17:41 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 17:17:41 -0800 From: Roger Sinasohn Subject: RoverDay Well, today seems like RoverDay. Went out for lunch at Chevy's in Stonestown (local mall), and saw, not 1, not 2, but 3, count 'em, 3 Disco's in the parking lot. 2 in green, and 1 in red. The red one had no plate but was from San Jose British Car. Then, on 280 south towards the SF Airport, we saw a red Defender 90 pulling a largish utility trailer, with the plate "94DFNDR". On the way home (280N, just south of the SF border) we saw a white (or off-white) 88" hard top, with what looked like purple curtains going the other way. And the day's not even over yet! On the down side, I'm having trouble with my mail reader, so I can't download messages. (They're getting to my mail box, I just can download them to my PC.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From Ferraiolo - Marcia Sun Jan 22 20:57:11 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 20:57:11 -0500 (EST) From: Ferraiolo - Marcia Subject: ABS ECM It's extremely unlikely that it's the ECM. The most common problem is the ABS sensors back out. That is easily fixed by pushing in each of the four sensors. Also, check the ECU-to -harness connector for any sign of moisture or terminal corrosion. In any case, there is a self-diagnostic capability that should pinpoint the problem for you. Let me know if you need more information or if you find moisture in the connector. Paul Ferraiolo marciaf@umd5.umd.edu From Joseph Broach Sun Jan 22 21:30:33 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 95 21:30:33 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Ignition woes (add. info) For those of you who plodded through my original post, thanks. I think that I now have something to help you help me. I reset the timing today, bypassed the ballast resistor (ignition now straight to coil), and regapped the points and plugs. It cranked up first rotation, after a quick carb adjust I took it down the road...ran great. So I decide to take it around the block and fill the tank, big mistake. About 500 yards later, a big miss and then nothing. Turns over strong but no spark. So I call Dad and he tows it back to the driveway with his '74 Mercedes 240 diesel (64hp). It drove better than usual actually while it ran. So what do you think? -Rgds, Joseph From Matt Snyder/NV/MO <71450.2606@compuserve.com> 23 95 Jan EST 1900 Date: 23 Jan 95 00:22:04 EST From: Matt Snyder/NV/MO <71450.2606@compuserve.com> Subject: Used RR caveats? A posting some time ago asked for caveats. Having recently purchased a used '88 RR, I recommend checking the power steering pump for leaks. -Matt From Matt Snyder/NV/MO <71450.2606@compuserve.com> 23 95 Jan EST 1900 Date: 23 Jan 95 00:22:13 EST From: Matt Snyder/NV/MO <71450.2606@compuserve.com> Subject: RR aux. driving lights >From their placement and the fact that they're wired to operate only when the high beams are on, I assume their purpose is to increase the visibility of the terrain directly in front of the vehicle when driving off road. I find it extrememly useful to use the auxilliary lights in place of the headlights when driving in heavy fog and snow, as the auxilliary lights minimize glare off the weather, but to do this I had to first rewire the relay that turns them on. Can anyone comment why they're originally wired to work only with high beams? -Matt '88 RR From Matt Snyder/NV/MO <71450.2606@compuserve.com> 23 95 Jan EST 1900 Date: 23 Jan 95 00:22:18 EST From: Matt Snyder/NV/MO <71450.2606@compuserve.com> Subject: RR frame drain holes I've seen advice to remove drain plugs from the frames of various Land Rovers to minimize frame rust. Does the same apply to Range Rovers? I've found it necessary not only to remove drain plugs but to use a siphon to remove water from the doors. -Matt '88 RR From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 23 01:01:00 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 01:01:00 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: My First Landy! Mike Slade has a new toy.. er.. Land Rover to play with... > I purchased a 66 (?) 88 IIA station wagon two days ago and thought that > I'd > gotten a pretty good deal at only 4500US dollars. My wife had driven it > before > with a friend of hers who is a (cough) Land-Cruiser freak who wanted to Well.. congrats on the IIa.. Why the question on the year? Post the chassis serial number.. someone will know what year it is. > A few questions: > Overdrive- Is it best to use it as a half-gear between 3rd and 4th when > driving an incline, or not. A few OD pointers would be appreciated. > before > with a friend of hers who is a (cough) Land-Cruiser freak who wanted to What sort of incline? The OD is mechanically between the transmission and transfer case - but you knew that. I would be wary of shifting in and out of OD if you were under on a steep incline or under heavy load as you might be if you were off road in 4WD. As to highway driving, go ahead and use it. It's fun, really.. Makes you feel like you're driving a big rig with too many shift levers. :) > Clutch- Master cylinder drips fluid down the pedal and onto the floormats > and [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > pedal/left foot until I can either re-build or replace it. Any > suggestions? Re-build it or replace it ASAP! Ditto for the slave cylinder. What's the fluid look like in the resevoir? Dirty grey fluid is an indication that the rubber componants in the hydraulics have deteriorated. Hopefully, your brakes are in better shape. Keep in mind that in 1966, dual brake hydraulics were not used. If you loose one wheel cylinder you loose all your brakes! Fun, eh? Finally, use only CASTROL GT-LMA brake fluid when you fix the hydraulics. > Driving- Has anyone found a way to soften up the seats on a long drive? > I don't want to complain, but my rear end was just getting a little numb > on the end of an hour and a half drive home. > and > I'm trying to figure out a way to divert the flow of fluid away from the Har, har, har.... Be a man about it! Grin a lot.. Actually, it called driving "by the seat of your pants"!! Think to yourself "This sure beats walking." Good luck and have fun! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "T.F. Mills" Sun Jan 22 23:36:27 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 23:36:27 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: sheep & newsletters Missed the sheepdog program, but that's OK. I have one of my own. Smartest dogs on earth, only mine is brain damaged. They go well with Land Rovers, especially mine even if his name isn't Lucas. (He's just as dim.) Baloney writes: < I just got Todd Mills new edition of the Solihull Society newsletter. < There was an interesting cartoon on the back with some fairly < accurate representations of a 109 wagon, but how about a translation, Todd? For the majority of you who don't get the newsletter, the back cover was a strip from "Tintin et les Picaros" by Herge (1976). It is readily available in English in bookstores; it's just that I only have it in French and the words aren't important. In the strip, a fictional Central American military escorts Tintin and his pal Captain Haddock to an old Mayan site on the Ruta Maya. They ride in a 109". And this was almost 20 years before the Disco did La Ruta Maya. (Tintin beat Neil Armstrong to the moon too -- by ten years.) The American English editions of Tintin are published by Atlantic Little Brown. The British ed. by Methuen. ... and thanks for the kind words about the newsletter! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 23 01:41:59 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 01:41:59 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: Ignition woes (add. info) Joseph... Hopefully this will be of some help... You *did* say that you replaced the points and condenser, right? Any chance that you might have a short in the points where the wire is connected? Tricky bit there, with the plastic washers and all. Next, check the LT wire from the contact points to the coil. It *might* be broken inside the insulation. Slim chance, but it does happen. Moving the wire around causes it to make contact for a bit. Next, check the coil itself. The ballast resistor is needed if you have a six volt coil. You can test the coil by disconnecting the HT wire at the distributer and laying it on top the rocker cover with the brass end of the wire about 1/4 inch from the rocker cover. Turn on the ignigtion, pull off the distributer cap and use a screwdriver to push the points open. The idea is to make and break the 12 volt circuit like the points do when the engie runs. When the points open, you should see a spark from the HT wire to the rocker cover. There is always a chance that the condensor is bad - even if it is new. Disconnect it and see how things work... Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From LANDROVER@delphi.com Mon Jan 23 01:42:12 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 01:42:12 -0500 (EST) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: RR aux. driving lights Matt needs some illumination... or enlightenment... > From their placement and the fact that they're wired to operate only when > the > high beams are on, I assume their purpose is to increase the visibility of > the > terrain directly in front of the vehicle when driving off road. I find it ----snip---- > Can anyone comment why they're originally wired to work only with high > beams? Guess #1 - So you don't blind oncoming traffic. Guess #2 - Might be due to vehicle safety regulations. Guess #2 is a government response to guess #1. We aren't smart enough to turn off our aux lights when we dim our headlamps. That's the best I can do! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) R.I.P. 7 1971 Ser IIa 88 Petrol #:-}> 1965 Ser IIa 88 Petrol From "T.F. Mills" Sun Jan 22 23:58:20 1995 Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 23:58:20 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: My First Landy! Mike Slade drools over his new status symbol, and proclaims: < I had met Bill on the LRNA rocky mountain trip to Moab in August, and had kept < his number handy, (BTW, Hi Tom Mills, IUve got a great photo of you wearing a < groovy turban). Keffiyeh actually... Todd actually... but you have the advantage of me! I remember a Salt Lake City Tribune photographer; was that you? Did the paper publish anything on the national rally? Congrats on the new acquisition! 1966 was a good year -- same as my 109. It's always refreshing to hear from someone for whom the excitement is fresh. (I wonder if anybody has been cured of the LR bug? I suspect not -- seems to be a terminal disease.) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From "T.F. Mills" Mon Jan 23 00:15:02 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 00:15:02 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Swiss Land Rovers? A trivia question: When IFrom jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Mon Jan 23 02:32:17 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 02:32:17 -0800 From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Ignition woes (add. info) >that I now have something to help you help me. I reset the timing today, >bypassed the ballast resistor (ignition now straight to coil), and regapped [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] >to the driveway with his '74 Mercedes 240 diesel (64hp). It drove better >than usual actually while it ran. So what do you think? Probably unrelated but: I once had a persistent problem of similar description. After trying everything under the sun, I eventually discovered the fuel pickup tube in the tank was corroded almost closed, thus limiting maximum flow. Additionally, as I drove, little bits of stuff would get sucked into the tube and further gum stuff up until the rover just stalled (for a long time I thought it was overheating or vapor lock or somesuch). Sitting for a while would allow these to fal back into the tank setting up a cycle of endless annoyance... -jory From Mr Ian Stuart Mon Jan 23 12:22:53 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 12:22:53 +0000 From: Mr Ian Stuart Subject: Re: SLROC membership prices > > Scottish Land Rover Owners Club : 10.00 (4 issues of Club Mag.) > Do you know if they have a seperate rate for overseas?? (I.E. US) The club > doesn't have any kind of window stickers, do they? (Would look great next to > the "Up Yer Kilt" sticker in my back window!!) none Our price appears to be the same for all members (our overseas members tend not to paricipate too often :) Here are a few contacts (PLEASE RESPECT UK Hours!) Membership Secretary: Sheila Wilson: +44 436 820 710 (home) {Address available from the Web} Competition Secretary: Ron Murdoch. +44 875 820 758 (home) +44 131 663 0564 (work) RTV secretary & Scrutineer: Alex lindsay +44 506 854 827 (work) Green Road Officer: Sandy Young +44 141 632 9767 (home) Club Shop: Kenny Gilmour +44 506 854 086 (home) ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- Play -- #======================================================================# To men, a hobby is making something or taking something to pieces. At the very least, it involves rolling in mud & the possibility of fracturing a bone. "She" Magazine From Russell Burns Mon Jan 23 6:35:19 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 6:35:19 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: RR frame drain holes YES, The small rubber gromets om tjhe doors plug up, and are useless Just remove them and toss. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 > I've seen advice to remove drain plugs from the frames of various Land Rovers > to minimize frame rust. Does the same apply to Range Rovers? I've found it [ truncated by lro-digester (was 9 lines)] > -Matt > '88 RR From Russell Burns Mon Jan 23 6:39:53 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 6:39:53 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: RR aux. driving lights On my 91 the aux light only come on with the low beams. As I have riped off a couple of sets of fog lights, I have replaced the low mounted fogs with a set of driving lights. This gives me a high beem (aux lights), and the low beam combo. I have not looked into the relay circuitry yet, But I can imagine it is designed in grand Lucas style.... Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 > >From their placement and the fact that they're wired to operate only when the > high beams are on, I assume their purpose is to increase the visibility of the [ truncated by lro-digester (was 12 lines)] > -Matt > '88 RR From rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Mon Jan 23 09:45:16 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:45:16 -0500 From: rparker@tiac.net (Randy Parker) Subject: 12K mile oil change for V8?? In a well-known book on Discos, the author states that the oil change interval for the V8 engine is 12,000 miles. Does anyone know why this claim is made? I've always been under an assumption that this engine preferred an oil change every 3,000 miles. Thanks, -- Randy Parker, NoteSystems (The book in question is James Taylor's very good book "Land Rover Discovery: An Enthusiast's Companion" -- ISBN: 0-947981-79-9, published 1994. See last sentence on p. 63.) From Russell Burns Mon Jan 23 6:50:09 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 6:50:09 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: My First Landy! > I had met Bill on the LRNA rocky mountain trip to Moab in August, and had kept > his number handy, (BTW, Hi Tom Mills, IUve got a great photo of you wearing a ke, > groovy turban). Mike, Are you the gentleman who we picked up hitch hiking at poison spider mesa trail?? We had the blue Range Rover, and stuck you in the back seat with my daughter. Good luck with the new car, Hope to see it on a trail soon.. Russ Burns 91 R-Rover 94 D-90 > I had met Bill on the LRNA rocky mountain trip to Moab in August, and had kept From Dixon Kenner Mon Jan 23 10:10:58 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:10:58 -0500 (EST) From: Dixon Kenner Subject: Re: RR frame drain holes On 23 Jan 1995, Matt Snyder/NV/MO wrote: > I've seen advice to remove drain plugs from the frames of various Land Rovers > to minimize frame rust. Does the same apply to Range Rovers? No idea. Never seen a drain plug anywhere on a Series Land Rover frame, just largish holes for water to run out of. Rgds, From Kelly Minnick Mon Jan 23 7:35:39 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 7:35:39 PST From: Kelly Minnick Subject: Re: Hi-Ratio Box RE:Hi-ratio gear box I don't know when exactly they changed the internal ratios of the gear box. Can anyone else out there help? Kelly Minnick '73 88" Safari Ridgecrest, CA From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 23 95 Jan EST 1910 Date: 23 Jan 95 10:48:32 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: My First Landy! Mike Slade is enticed... > Overdrive- Is it best to use it as a half-gear between 3rd and 4th when > driving an incline, or not. A few OD pointers would be appreciated. The OD is designed and meant *only* as a long 5th gear for straight on-road cruising - nothing else. Ok, if the situation demands it, it can also be used to 'split gears', as you suggest; but this should be the exception rather than the rule. And NEVER EVER engage OD in low ratio, or when hauling heavy loads. The OD is a nifty appliance, but unforgiving if abused. > Clutch- Master cylinder drips fluid down the pedal and onto the floormats If the clutch master is that shot, throw it out. Rebuilding it would be a waste of time and money, the improvement would only be temporary. Have fun! Stefan From "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> 23 95 Jan EST 1910 Date: 23 Jan 95 10:49:29 EST From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: RR aux. driving lights & caveats Matt sees the light... > From their placement and the fact that they're wired to operate only when the > high beams are on, I assume their purpose is to increase the visibility of the Weird; with the '87 Range I purchased not long ago, it's the other way around: When I go on high beam, the aux lights go off. Makes sense IMO, cuz' the low-and-wide beam of the aux lights is particularly useful in fog, and you don't want to be driving into a 'white wall' which is invariably what you get when driving in fog with high beam on. Maybe a PO already rewired it, or german specs require it to be wired this way. Or maybe at Solihull, just for kicks, on even days they wire it this-a-way, and on uneven... Go figure. As for leaking power steering, I would consider it the Range Rovers' (and Discovery's, for that matter) equivalent of the 'leaking gearbox syndrome' of the Series Land Rovers: It's just the way it is. I've never, ever seen a Range or Disco which, after its first winter with sub-zero temperatures, didn't have a 'wet' steering box. As long as it doesn't dribble over your shoes or foul your driveway, I wouldn't worry about it, just bleed the power steering system now and then and keep the reservoir topped up. It's part of the fun of driving a Rover... Of course this doesn't meen that you shouldn't use the 'leaking power steering' as a forceful argument to bring down the price when negotiating the purchase of a used RR ;-) But don't let it put you off. Stefan From Daniel Jeffrey Shih Mon Jan 23 07:56:45 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 07:56:45 -0800 From: Daniel Jeffrey Shih Subject: Defender 110 Question Does anyone know about how many 110s there are in the U.S.? I'm also very interested in how much these beauties go for on the market, especially since new ones are no longer available here! Thanks a bunch. --Dan ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Daniel Jeffrey Shih danshih@leland.stanford.edu Department of Economics http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~danshih From Easton Trevor Mon Jan 23 10:21:00 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 10:21:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: FW: UUCP delivery error ---------- From Russell Burns Mon Jan 23 8:27:48 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 8:27:48 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Defender 110 Question There were 500 improted by LRONA. I have seen used ones adverised in the 40k+ range. Russ Burns > Does anyone know about how many 110s there are in the U.S.? I'm also > very interested in how much these beauties go for on the market, especially [ truncated by lro-digester (was 13 lines)] > Daniel Jeffrey Shih danshih@leland.stanford.edu > Department of Economics http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~danshih From Mike Rooth Mon Jan 23 16:39:14 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 16:39:14 GMT From: Mike Rooth Subject: OVLR Newsletter Dixon, Got the latest newsletter,thanks.Brilliant! The drawings are to a magnificent standard.Wouldnt be surprised if they dont get framed.Best issue yet!Dont know when it was posted,perhaps you'd better tell Communist Post to stop using the bull mooses hoofprint as a postmark.Or at least find another moose.Not a lot of good as a date stamp.Anyway,it arrived this morning. Cheers Mike Rooth From "T.F. Mills" Mon Jan 23 09:45:22 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:45:22 -0700 (MST) From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Defender 110 Question Daniel Shih asks: < Does anyone know about how many 110s there are in the U.S.? I'm also < very interested in how much these beauties go for on the market, especially < since new ones are no longer available here! none A limited edition of 500 were sold in 1993. All were white, but I've already seen one repainted in jungle camouflage. Quite a few have changed hands already, but don't expect the value to depreciate fast. I recently saw six of them at once in the Denver dealer's service lot. (Does that mean a critical component self-destructs after 2 years?) Any others beside the 500 would be an extreme rarity. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From Russell Burns Mon Jan 23 8:46:07 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 8:46:07 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Test can some one send me a response? Thanks, I am not sure if my responses are getting out. Russ Burns From S|ren Vels Christensen Mon Jan 23 17:47:11 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 17:47:11 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: RR frame drain holes On Mon, 23 Jan 1995, Dixon Kenner wrote: > On 23 Jan 1995, Matt Snyder/NV/MO wrote: > > I've seen advice to remove drain plugs from the frames of various Land Rovers [ truncated by lro-digester (was 11 lines)] > frame, just largish holes for water to run out of. > Rgds, I,ve seen largish holes from water not running out. On Aurens for instance. Rgds SV/Lawrence From Russell Burns Mon Jan 23 9:19:02 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 9:19:02 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Test, Thanks all is well, but my typing. Thanks k> > > Thanks, > > I am not sure if my responses are getting out. [ truncated by lro-digester (was 10 lines)] > > I am not sure if my responses are getting out. > > Russ Burns From Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu (Michael Yablonski) Mon Jan 23 13:28:11 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:28:11 -0500 From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu (Michael Yablonski) Subject: Ignition problems Hi, i'm Michael, new to the lro digest. I have a 1987 Range Rover bought in 1992 with 44,000 mi. on it. Had a few problems but overall I LOVE IT! Got real wet once though, can someone tell me why they put the brains under the passenger seat? Its a bitch to find that out by openning the passenger door in three feet of water! (thought it was just a foot deep, but the bottom which I could see very well through the spring fed water turned out to be two more feet of something the texture of yogurt!). anyway, regarding those ignition woes, both the coil and the condensor could have temperature related failures. I've experienced both. You guessed it, A Healey 3000 and a Sprite. Must be a Brittish thing. No way to test it for sure, but if it runs fine then dies, could be the problem. The Sprite had a situation I've only seen once. It would blow condensors every two weeks or so. Could be voltage regulator not regulating or some other voltage surge that was doing it. Was gonna replace the charging works, but a rather large plymouth made that change unnecessary (ouch!). Your description of a backfire could be a clue. if it popped out of the tail, most likely you lost spark a few strokes earlier and dumped raw gas into the pipes. If it popped thru the carb, I would suspect the condensor. In the Sprite, a few carb pops was the warning I would get about ten miles before it was dead. Just enough time to get closer to hame and to find a phone. The popping, kicking, bucking, etc would escalate to the point that i could maintain about fifteen miles/hr for the last mile or so, makin a hell of a racket. hope this helps. Michael Yablonski using my bosses account at Brown U Harold_Wanebo@Brown.edu From Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu (Michael Yablonski) Mon Jan 23 13:35:06 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:35:06 -0500 From: Harold_Wanebo@postoffice.brown.edu (Michael Yablonski) Subject: Ignition problems Hi, i'm Michael, new to the lro digest. I have a 1987 Range Rover bought in 1992 with 44,000 mi. on it. Had a few problems but overall I LOVE IT! Got real wet once though, can someone tell me why they put the brains under the passenger seat? Its a bitch to find that out by openning the passenger door in three feet of water! (thought it was just a foot deep, but the bottom which I could see very well through the spring fed water turned out to be two more feet of something the texture of yogurt!). anyway, regarding those ignition woes, both the coil and the condensor could have temperature related failures. I've experienced both. You guessed it, A Healey 3000 and a Sprite. Must be a Brittish thing. No way to test it for sure, but if it runs fine then dies, could be the problem. The Sprite had a situation I've only seen once. It would blow condensors every two weeks or so. Could be voltage regulator not regulating or some other voltage surge that was doing it. Was gonna replace the charging works, but a rather large plymouth made that change unnecessary (ouch!). Your description of a backfire could be a clue. if it popped out of the tail, most likely you lost spark a few strokes earlier and dumped raw gas into the pipes. If it popped thru the carb, I would suspect the condensor. In the Sprite, a few carb pops was the warning I would get about ten miles before it was dead. Just enough time to get closer to hame and to find a phone. The popping, kicking, bucking, etc would escalate to the point that i could maintain about fifteen miles/hr for the last mile or so, makin a hell of a racket. hope this helps. Michael Yablonski using my bosses account at Brown U Harold_Wanebo@Brown.edu From Morgan Hannaford Mon Jan 23 09:49:24 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 09:49:24 -0800 (PST) From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Re: Defender 110 Question Daniel, The S.F. Chron. had an add for a US 110 at Cole European (Concord) last time I checked (yesterday). Probably ~$40K...... Good luck, Morgan From rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Mon Jan 23 13:29:38 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 13:29:38 -0500 From: rwegner@fimage.synapse.net (Richard Wegner) Subject: New Landy & more Land Rovers for sale Congrats to you Michael Slade, sounds like your having fun with your new landy now! The Rover tends to bring out the ol love/hate relationship in its owners! Clutch- Master cylinder Suggest you have a look at it as soon as possible! You may want to try replacing the original brake fluid with Silicone Brake Fluid after your rebuild. It is non-hydroscopic (doesn't absorb water) so it doesn't corrode insides of master cylinders and wheel cylinders, and best of all it doesn't eat paint or rubber soles on your boots. Have had it in my Rover for the last 5-6 yrs or so. I just had the 73 SIII out for some exercise yesterday in the snow (and mud! Wish it would get cold and freeze again!), had a great time, with my 8 yr old son Jason, and our old English Sheepdog, Toby in the back. Great fun! Forwarding this from the british sports car list for those who may not have seen it. If I were in Virginia I'd be tempted to take a look at the diesel! Cheers! Richard From William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Mon Jan 23 10:49:11 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 10:49:11 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) Subject: Re: My First Landy! >Overdrive- Is it best to use it as a half-gear between 3rd and 4th when >driving an incline, or not. A few OD pointers would be appreciated. > Clutch- Master cylinder drips fluid down the pedal and onto the floormats and > my boot... Any suggestions? [ truncated by lro-digester (was 8 lines)] > Michael Slade > SLCN3@CC.USU.EDU WRT overdrive; Just use it anyway that keeps the engine RPM in the area that "feels good". I have used mine for seveal years this way with no problems. Use it between 3rd and 4th on a long hill, use it in low range, what ever. It's just another gear. WRT clutch leaks; PO no doubt put wrong fluid in it. Now you must rebuild both systems and use ONLY Castrol LMA. Regards, Bill G. From CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Mon Jan 23 14:49:17 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 14:49:17 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Subject: This 'n' that... WRT the thread on sheep dogs, I got a border collie off a working farm as a pup. From the earliest, he would herd all the neighborhood kids into a clot and would try his damndest to try to herd cats...however, there is nothing more pointless in this world than herding cats! He's smart enough so that if he could work vice-grips, he could probably replace window channels! (And yes, his name is Lucas). Mike Kenrick write with problems with the ABS EC unit...somewhere I read or heard that the most common problem is the individual wheel sensors simply come loose or indeed fall out completely. I gather that they are simple IR sensors, kind of like the pickups on electronic ignition. Check/wiggle all sensors first. Bill C. writes about "skid schools". Jean-Peal Luc has opened an east coast branch of his famed ice driving school at Killington. I had the great pleasure of having a (free!) day's instruction at Steamboat several years ago, and it was a load of fun...even if you have to drive Fords. Learned a bunch, too, especially on braking techniques and how to make panic stops on ice too slick to walk on. Mash down hard on the pedal to lock the wheels, then just as quick, release them to roll again, cycling through this lock-release-lock motion at a frequency to suit the situation, in the process, imitating ABS brakes. Tires can only do one thing at a time( i.e., steer or brake), and if they are locked, they reduce your vehicle to nothing more than an expensive sled. Matt writes about why auxillary lights are connected to high beams. It is part of the Uniform Vehicle Code that they have to be connected this way. In Virginia, this is reason to fail the annual inspection. So when you turn the lights on for the inspector, turn the brights on simultaneously. The reason? So you can't have headlights without taillights. Many years ago whilst driving home at night, I coasted through a stop sign, only to see a cop parked just around the bend. As I passed him, I could see that he was "clearing the decks for action" (i.e., stashing the donuts) though he was in no position to pursue directly. Turned two other corners in quick succession, doused the headlights and hit the driving lamps (I now only had light out the front). Though speeds never got above 10 mph, he couldn't find me without tail lights showing. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Mon Jan 23 16:30:16 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 16:30:16 -0500 From: afpgreg@gatekeeper.ddp.state.me.us (Paul V. Gregory) Subject: Shepherding in the 90's Greetings to Roverphiles of the Highest Water: Last autumn while visiting the Lake District, I watched a chap in his '90 slowly herd a dozen sheep some distance down a narrow country lane. His sheepdog ran directly behind the LR, head down below the hight of the rear bumper, barking steadily at the sheep ahead. When a sheep ventured off the lane, the dog would run up from behind the vehicle, convince the sheep to return to the flock, and then return to its station behind the Landie. An entertaining collaboration of man, machine, dog and sheep. cheers from tropical Maine, USA ----------- {A mentor once explained to me why American know-how put a man on the moon while Lucas electrics caught fire: "Why it's simple. After the War, the Yanks got the 'good" nazis while the English got stick with the "bad" nazis."} --30-- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From Easton Trevor Mon Jan 23 15:25:00 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 15:25:00 EST From: Easton Trevor Subject: Special buy on Land Rover Vehicles Local hearsay is that these are ex UN vehicles and currently reside in customs bond at Jacksonville, Florida. The 6.5 turbo diesel is a GM unit and maybe the 16.5 wheels are indicative of a Dana axle. They are not DOT / EPA approved and may well be sold only on a re-export basis. ie for purchase by third world military group. Could the 110s, because of this strange engine, wheel combination be cut down hummers in Land-Rover sheetmetal????? A sheep in wolfs clothing! Trevor Easton TEASTON@dqc2.dofasco.ca From lloyd@indy14.cs.monash.edu.au (Lloyd Allison) Tue Jan 24 09:45:53 1995 Date: Tue, 24 Jan 95 09:45:53 +1100 From: lloyd@indy14.cs.monash.edu.au (Lloyd Allison) Subject: 100 Defender The only 100 inch "Defender" that I know was a small batch of prototype 110s made on the Range Rover wheelbase and probably using RR chassis, round about 1978. I have a poor `gif' in http://www.cs.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/tildeLandRover/MightHaveBeen/index.html (There have probably been many privately built specials too.) Also at the URL is a gif of a forward control ~ 1990 looking very neat and "civilised", not a 101, not a S2A FC, does anyone know anything more about this vehicle - dimensions, engine, dates, ... ? I believe it was a prototype that was not put into production. Santana also built their own FCs, and I don't think it's one of theirs. Lloyd Allison From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Jan 23 17:56:29 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 17:56:29 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Defender 110 Question > Does anyone know about how many 110s there are in the U.S.? I'm also > very interested in how much these beauties go for on the market, especially [ truncated by lro-digester (was 7 lines)] > since new ones are no longer available here! > Thanks a bunch. I know of someone who sold theirs to a *dealer* for $36K. Believe it or not, the guy went out and bought a Toyota to replace it. He reportedly got tired of retrieving it from the shop. (Rumour has it this guy used to work for Dean, under Nixon, so maybe that explains it.....) A friend of mine has a 110 that may be up for sale in a few months. At last check, it has about 25K miles on it (all highway). I'll keep the list posted as to when and if it is up for sale (he's replacing it with an ol' yet fully restored 109). (This is #5 of the 500 imported.) cheers, rd/nigel From "Russell G. Dushin" Mon Jan 23 18:21:42 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 18:21:42 EST From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Series options There's been all sorts of talk 'bout abs, fancy light setups, on-board system diagnosis, etc...all associated with these new fangled machines yaz all call discos, defenders, and RRs.... ...now, I don't mean to get yer hackles up er nothin', but I do feel the need to remind you all just what fine options my 1960 SII 88 has..... (no flames, please, as this is all for fun...) Anti-Lock Brakes (4 10 in. drums, no power assist) Intermittant Wipers (Joe Lucas powered) Anti-theft Devices (23 neutral combinations) Fog(gy) Lights (H2O penetrable lenses and seals) Rear Window Washer (Puddles not included) Built in Alarm System (Loud rear end) Self-Lubricating Chassis (ok, ok, not an option-comes as std eqpt) 24hr Road Recovery System (Toolbox, manuals, dirty coveralls, and a quarter) Ergonometric Interior (Let's see *you* sleep across your front seat!) cheers all, rd/nigel From "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> 23 95 Jan EST 1919 Date: 23 Jan 95 19:07:45 EST From: "WILLIAM L. LEACOCK" <75473.3572@compuserve.com> Subject: Digest 22nd Jan. To Micheal Slade welcome to the nut house, good luck with your new toy. overdrive is an ideal 3/4 gear splitter to use on grades or when towing, The book says not to use in 1/2 but I used one for years when I had a slow revving high torque diesel engine. replace the clutch master cylinder, resealing is only a short term and not very reliable option. while you are at it change the slave cylinder as well. seats : look round a breakers yard at different types, some of the Japanese cars have good seats ( not much else good ) probably need to look at imports to get some thing small enough, the important thing to look for is a shallow base, otherwise your knees touch the steering wheel. when looking consider that a lot of the underframe tubing can be cut away. It's good to ttry some seats from the newer cars with head restraints and back support. there are a few rally driver type seats available also. 67 2A ignition problem, as standard the vehicle was fitted with a 12volt coil, no ballast resistor is necessary, if the non original coil is a 9v or a 6v then an appropriate resistor is necessary. the distibutor thumbscrew should be initially set in the central position when timing the ignition, then one has some small adjustment each way for fine tuning. LR made some Defender 100 prototypes , fitting a LR body on a RR chassis, the rear body was betwen an 88 and 109 in length, a friend in the UK bought a body from Peter Hobson in Louth ( who used to have a contract from Rover for recycling their surplus parts and development vehicles.) and fitted it to a RR chassis. with a V8 and an auto box that he has been using for many years. When buying a used RR the condition of the steering box is more important to check for excess play or any leaks, the cost of replacement is higher than the pump and the incidence of failure greater. Auxiliary lights opn the RR, in Europe it it is illegal to drive with auxiliary lights alone ,they can only be used in conditions of fog or falling snow in conjunction with the headlights. Regards Bill Leacock Limey in exile. From Russell Burns Mon Jan 23 17:25:24 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 95 17:25:24 PST From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Series options Ya, but it didn't come with a picnic basket... > There's been all sorts of talk 'bout abs, fancy light setups, > on-board system diagnosis, etc...all associated with these new [ truncated by lro-digester (was 28 lines)] > seat!) > cheers all, > rd/nigel From rmodica@east.pima.edu Mon Jan 23 19:05:17 1995 Date: Mon, 23 Jan 1995 19:05:17 MST From: rmodica@east.pima.edu Subject: TV Land Rovers While channel surfing on Saturday night I saw a listing for "African Skies" on the Family channel. Looks like a Land Rover show and sure enough its an ongoing series about a mom and son living in Africa on a ranch or something. Mom is obviously a transplanted yuppie and drives a black Cheep but the teenage boy has much class and tools around in a brown Series IIA - a late one. Anyone seen the show? Also have been reading the discussion about using diff lock and getting transmission windup. Does this windup happen ra