From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 05:07:20 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Les's silly hat! To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 14:50:21 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Andy Woodward" at Aug 31, 94 02:51:11 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1013 Status: RO Andy writes: > The ultimate sillyhat has to be the one worn by the 'Bush Tucker Man'. What > a wally. > > Tell he comes from a land without weather. In Wales, it'd hang him by teh > neckstrap first Force10 we got........... And leave him dangling frmo a > Paperbark. Oh Contrair Andy. Les's hat is well suited to the Tropics he inhabits. One of the biggest problems with the more normal hat shape is that it rapidly fills up with water, during the 5-6" per hour storms. The "Lemon Squeezer" type dont. Sadly the style looks silly and is know hard to come by, unless you swim in your hat a few times and reshape it.:-) Mind you les's is a bit extreme even for me. On a Rover related note. Major Hiddins "Bush tucker man" raised the profile of Land-rovers a lot in this country. His 110 used to get surrounded by tourists when he went to the Darwin RSL club, for his quiet ale. Never met the man but his rover is a real workhorse set up. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 05:05:46 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 02:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: LRO Club Name List To: Spenny@aol.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"Spenny@aol.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Spencer writes.... > actually met (in person) anyone from the net yet, i have talked to a couple > on the phone, but i think i was parked 75 feet from Mike Lodice in owl's head > and i never got to talk to him. (Although i did meet Steve Dennis the year > before) A sticker perhaps? > Nope, wasn't me.. Never did get to Owl's head. But I saw a picture of someone else's truck with almost an identical fern paint job... hmmmm.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 04:44:05 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Disco current cite To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 00:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 401 Status: RO Hot off the press: Griffin, Larry "Land Rover Discovery : just the thing for rascals little and big." [road test] CAR AND DRIVER Vol. 30, no. 3 (Sept. 1994) p. 101-109 The verdict: "good looking, good driving; Rover cachet for lots less cash". T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 06:57:51 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Les's silly hat! Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 08:42:08 UNDEFINED Status: RO > >> The ultimate sillyhat has to be the one worn by the 'Bush Tucker Man'. What >> a wally. >type dont. Sadly the style looks silly and is know hard to come by, unless Its such a suberbly sillyhat that I asked a freind who was working in Oz to bring me one back. Sadly he had to leave in a hurry, so I didnt get the hat. Its so deliciously daft as it comes that it'd just be spoiled by corks.......... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 05:04:07 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: land-rover-owner@team.net X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: Members of ARC (Association of Rover Clubs) related clubs. Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 05:51:50 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO At the ARC nationals over May bank holiday in in Derby, there was some discussion of using the net at the International ARC club meeting. Toward that end, I am in the process of writing to the ARC leadership about the net and would like to be able to tell them how many club leaders and/or members are already on the net. If any of you are members of a Rover Owners Club, or other Rover Marque Club, would you be so kind as to send me (e-mail directly to: caloccia@team.net) the following particulars: (Your) Name: . (Your) E-mail: . (Your) Position in the club: Member OR Office held: . Club Name: . Club Location: . (City/County/Region/State, Country) If you aren't sure if your particular Rover club is ARC affiliated, don't worry about it, as I've got a list of clubs that are. Cheers, - Bill caloccia@team.net caloccia@stratus.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 08:15:55 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 07:40:52 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: British Marque To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO I just received my September issue of British Marque, and the front page article covers the Stowe British Invasion September 16-18. In the article it states "On Sunday there will be an expanded Tailgate Picnic competition... Expect the Canadian Land Rover group to present quite a spectacle!". Dixon, what ever could they mean? On the back cover are some shots from the UK ARC rally. Now I know what John Hong's mug looks like. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 08:29:48 1994 From: K Schmidt Subject: add to list To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 9:20:09 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Could someone place me on this mailing list. sorry, I no longer have the LRO admin. address. I'm at s20845@sv1.rmc.ca thank you. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 09:27:40 1994 Date: 01 Sep 94 10:17:24 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" To: Landy Subject: My 7.5 wheels Status: RO Greetings: I just received and mounted a set of 7.5x16 wheels with Michelin radials on my '62 '88 military. They replaced a set of 6.5x16 military split rims with very aggressive firestone (British) uni-directional agricultural truck tires. The difference is night and day. The new wheels, combined with the overdrive, give it incredible highway manners (I commute 25 miles each way down the Interstate every day) and have reduced the engine speed from a frantic pitch, to just loafing along comfortably. The ride is much improved, and these tires are so quiet, I can now hear wind noise! I took it off road into some deep mud at a construction site and it breezed through as if driving down blacktop. I have probably given up some measure of off-road ability, but gained far more in roadworthyness. Visually, the car looks better, too. The wheel wells are "full" and it has a better stance. The new tires lift it up a little bit and give it a slightly more imposing look and feel. Interesting visual illusion, too... I went from Bronze Green-painted military wheels to white ones (they are not the proper limestone) and the visual effect makes the car look shorter. It's an interesting transformation, but something I noticed the minute I stepped back to look at it. Anyway, this weekend, I will be installing a set of add-a-leaf suspension front and rear and I will update everyone on that project (I think I see an Aluminum Workhorse Tech Article in this, too!) via a note. The description of the kit indicates that it can get about a 2" lift out of it, though I am more interested in increasing load capacity a bit. Anyway, anyone re-doing an 88, IMHO, should put the large, wide wheels at the top of their list. It is literally a whole different car! Cheers, R. Pierce Reid '62 Series IIa Military -- the Sergeant Major (Is this name taken?) *** An analog guy, muddling through in a digital world... *** From tomills@du.edu Thu Sep 1 10:27:02 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: post national rally car search... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9408311541.AA22012@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Aug 31, 94 10:41:29 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 583 Status: RO Ray Harder asks about the LRs for sale in Westcliffe, CO. I made no note of owners or anything, but recall that the 1969 88" belongs to a mechanic on Main St. (It was parked in the alley behind Main.) According to the phone book, there appears to be only one mechanic on Main St. (and maybe only 2 in town): Miller Automotive, 108 Main, 719-783-9694. He probably knows who to contact about the other one. There goes a fine Rover! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 10:45:06 1994 From: "John R. Benham" Organization: WFOC Spokane, Washington To: lro@stratus.com, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 08:37:14 +1100 Subject: Re: Is my clutch going? X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO > To: lro@stratus.com > Subject: Is my clutch going? > From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) > Send reply to: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Date sent: Wed, 31 Aug 94 08:44:52 -0500 > Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada > I find when I am driving, my clutch makes a intermitant high pitch whine. > When I press in the clutch, the noise goes away. I notice no signs of > slipping. What is wrong? > > Dale Desprey > > -- > Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada Dale, Try the throughout bearing. Regards, John R. Benham Editor, `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA USA > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 10:37:50 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: post national rally car search... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9408311541.AA22012@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Aug 31, 94 10:41:29 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 583 Status: RO Ray Harder asks about the LRs for sale in Westcliffe, CO. I made no note of owners or anything, but recall that the 1969 88" belongs to a mechanic on Main St. (It was parked in the alley behind Main.) According to the phone book, there appears to be only one mechanic on Main St. (and maybe only 2 in town): Miller Automotive, 108 Main, 719-783-9694. He probably knows who to contact about the other one. There goes a fine Rover! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 11:13:04 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: land-rover-owner@team.net Cc: sarah@sbear.demon.co.uk Subject: Query on L/R product development / Safety research Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 12:06:30 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO >From riding in some of their vehicles, I wouldn't have thought Land Rover had given safety much thought :-) ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 14:46:20 -0800 To: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com From: Sarah Latchford Subject: Research on safety Message-ID: <9409011444.aa22233@post.demon.co.uk> Hello, I am part of a small group that design and develop safety products. We have recently come up with a few ideas for car interiors. Do you have any idea where Land Rover do research and development in this field? Any information would be a great help. Thanks for your time Sarah sbear.demon.co.uk ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 11:38:37 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:34:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: FTP site for Rover GIF's??? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: FTP site for Rover GIF's??? Does anyone know of an FTP site where I can get GIF's of Rovers? I love off road vehicles, but am a bit bored with the "jeeps and Jap junk" that I have as a back drop for my unix screen. I'm not trying to bash them, and have owned several, but since I'm soon to be a Rover owner (ordered a Disco) that's what I'd like to see! Thanks in advance... Dave (digest mode now) Brown #=====# "Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has." " "`O'""""`O'" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 11:56:15 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:52:06 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: Newsgroup opinion.. (No, please) Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Newsgroup opinion.. (No, please) I'd have to agree with John and TeriAnn, the potential for people to bombard us with junk mail would probably be enough for myself and probably many others to leave this "oasis home" for Land Rover owners. As it is, I (as well as you all, I'm sure) get WELL OVER 100 e-mail messages per day, even the 50 or so we got from the LRO list yesterday was a bit heavy, although now, in digest mode, it's easier to manage. I've only visited some of the "open" newsgroups on occasion, and from what I've seen, don't care to have any part of it. I WOULD however, like to see us organized, or united by a name. Yes, we have the "Team.net" name, and maybe that's all we need. But I think it'd be nice to be able to refer to this... Internet network mailing list thing by a name, other than "Internet network mailing list thing." Thanks for putting up with me... #=====# "Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has." " "`O'""""`O'" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:14:31 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 10:08:52 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: jory@mit.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: oil consumption V4 / catastrophic oil pressure loss Status: RO >From my experience when any warning light or gauge registers abnormal, there is a 50/50 chance that the problem lies in the sensor!! Cheer to Lucas John Brabyn 89 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:32:19 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 10:25:48 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: LR test area location??? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: LR test area location??? I found this on another mailing list thing that may be of interest to some of you: To all those interested: You can get to the Rover test area from four directions South: From Rte 301 north bound go under Rte 214 Central Ave and make a left at the Lowes (Hardware) and another left so you are heading southbound on 301. Cross over 214 and on your right 200 years will see a paved road, turn here and you will see the "no dumping" signs. On the left you will see some antique stores and a connecting road toe 301 North. North: Southbound Rte 301, south of route 50 and north Rte 4 (Penn Ave.) then follow directions above. West and DC Beltway: Take Rte 214 (central Ave.) east bound toward Wild/Adventure World. After W/A World, 214 will open to a 4 lane divided highway. Take the next exit for Rte 301 South. On your right you will find a paved road to exit off. wait at the "No dumping" signs. East: From Annapolis you can either go on Rte 50/301 or Rte 214. If 214 then take the 301 south exit (be careful) and get over to the right lane so you can get off Rte301s at the paved entrance road. Oh dear!!! I've deleted the original posting and don't know which city (U.S.) this is near. But it looks like the DC area. Maybe someone on the net could verify this??? P.S. I hope the directions from the south don't REALLY take "200 years." Good luck!!! #=====# "Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has." " "`O'""""`O'" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:41:21 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 13:35:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Questions questions....... To: DAVID SPENCER Cc: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <00983D29.D3FC4AE0.6819@esseX.stfx.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > One question I had about variations on Trans. types...can a dip stick > be retrofitted for those without? I have heard that some earlier types > had a dip stick? > > I'll leave it at now for now. > > David S. > Antigonish, Nova Scotia *I've* got a question.....I have a wealth (ok,pocket change) of information on the early transmission etc.......BUT I get the idea that the techical stuff really only interests the very few..(You disco owners*PLEASE* don't take your gearbox apart!!!) I'm kinda new at this so is there a format where we can identify if the question has been answered,but dosesn't fill everyone's mail box to bursting? So...do I answer this type of thing on the net with my usual lack of breivity,speeling and accuracy,or do I post it to the info file and hope those that need to know will look it up....I've had several direct queries on some topics that have asked the same question,and if I answer them all,my poor little piggies get tired......maybe*everybody* else knows how to do this but not me..... Ok,short and sweet... the dipstick transmissions are series1 and 2....some very early 2a's...so to get a dipstick (stop it Maloney...) you have to use at least the case and top cover from one of these....(the case and top cover on all LR trannies are matched BTW)..the trouble here is that these units have a smaller layshaft (*get* a life,Maloney!...).)and the later "guts" will require some machining of the case to use.....It really isn't worth it in my estimation...but I've done it...If you really leak that much oil,perhaps an "IV bag" is in order :-) steve....... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:00:28 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 13:57:11 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: clutch plates Status: RO >Sorry for not responding to your Aug 17th mail about clutch covers. >I just got back from vacation -- hope you got things sorted our >(er, sorted out). I figure any comments at this point are far >after the fact! >See ya, >Randy Not quite after the fact.... I found a 9 1/2 cover in my collection of parts to replace the series III 9 1/2 cover which had "naked fingers" instead a collar for the series IIA throughout bearing to ride on. When the previous owner put the sIIA Trans in the SIII LR they used the SIII clutch cover. A note of interest pertaining to an earlier discussion...it seemed to be working fine but there was "some" wear on the "naked fingers" at the point of contact with the throughout bearing. The progress so far is... the pressure plate has been removed from the clutch cover ...also the fly wheel and are both sitting in a box waiting to be taken to a machine shop and resurfaced. I have not yet orderd the new friction plate. so whats holding me up? well... while at work on the clutch I also decided to do some "small" amount of work on the frame...so I removed the rear and seat box. At this point a friend came over to see it and made me an offer I am still stuggling with...he could have it submitted as a "trade school" project and have the entire frame and and all the springs rebuilt.... The cost involved would be only materials but.... It would be laided up for 2 months or so... I am tempted to do the "small" amount of welding ( the present frame is old and tired but still solid enough for on road driving ) and then reassemble all the bit lying around the house and yard ...if the trade school really needs a class project they can build me a new frame from scratch? but ....now I ramble.. I'll have made up my mind soon. One question I had about variations on Trans. types...can a dip stick be retrofitted for those without? I have heard that some earlier types had a dip stick? I'll leave it at now for now. David S. Antigonish, Nova Scotia From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:56:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Oil consumption for the 3.9l From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:38:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > and while I'm at it.....My understanding on the oil leaks is that on > equipment that is designed to operate under severe dirt and grime > conditions, that the seals are set up to leak fluid. The reasoning is > that the outpouring of oil will wash away the muck from the seal to steel > interface and prevent the dust and oil (there is always going to be > *some* oil..no seal is 100%) from forming a "grinding paste" and wearing > out the seal and related parts before noon....ummmmmm *could just be more > hype to cover up poor quality control...... Hence why is is desirable to use double lipped seals on the hubs, yet is very bad idea to use triple lipped seals (yes they are available in the correct size for a Land Rover hub). Single lipped seals on the hub just let a little too much get past. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:57:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: P O R T L A N D ! ! ! ! From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:42:01 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com writes: > I suggest that all those rover guy that are on the net that intend on attend > the rover/brit car meet have some sort of exterior flag/marking or somthing t > distinguish ourselves from the norm?? British-cars mailing list has done this. Deposited a "crest" at a reputable printer and have available shirts, coffee mugs etc with the logo. Logo is a Union Jack with crossed con rod & spanner in front as well as the letters SOL. mailing list addrss is at the bottom... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:55:32 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Newsgroup? Bio, thanks from BP From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:44:24 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Fred Heald writes: > Why not a rec.autos.land-rover Usenet newsgroup instead of or in addition > to this mailing list? It would give a lot more exposure, and threads > would actually be 'threaded'. More for the same reason that the much larger British-cars mailing- list has refused this. People on this list want to be here and have gone to the effort to get here. Access is controlable. In a newsgroup every yahoo with some other 4x4 can stop by, or cross-post into the newsgroup just to be a pain in the ass. This format is far superior to having a newsgroup. > The problem is, I'm not sure how to go about creating the newsgroup. I > guess it's easier to create groups in the alt. hierachy, but I think with > some sort of a vote it would be possible to create a rec. group. Alt is easy. Rec requires a vote. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:58:22 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Discovery / Defender Premium Fuel? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:49:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> writes: > Regarding the use of standard unleaded gas all I can say is I wouldn't. Just some trivia. In Canada gasoline uses a number of additives for replacing lead (MMT et cetera) that are banned in the USA. Thus running unleaded is not as bad here as it is in the USA. I have also not heard any horror stories from anyone up here visa-vis their Rover and head problems from unleaded gasoline. Rgds, Dixon (Guess this justifies paying $2.50 (approx) a gallon for gasoline) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:53:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:21:42 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk writes: > This "InterNet" thing is a big unknown for a lot of people here in > the UK. Getting access is not *that* difficult, the cheapest > commercial system I could use works out at 120pounds (pa) for > subscription and ~1pound per hour telephone charges (I've got a local > modem bank). I can't think of the address off-hand, but there is a much cheaper system accessable via modem in London. They were originally thumbing their node at the formal internet structure over there by routing mail and news via two locations, one in Ottawa, the second in New York. My understanding is that access is very reasonable. Other than them, access in the UK has been rather restricted and expensive. > Most people don't really understand what this e-mail thing is all > about -- it tends to be 'a serious tool for company use only', so > they don't think about the possibility of a leasure use for it. Ths assumes they have an idea in the first place. Don't really understand the whole concept I find to be more common. Interest is there and growing, at least here in Ottawa and within OVLR. > I suppose it comes down to the fact that I feel we should recognise > ourselves as a club. Just because we don't have a membership fee or > any formal structure does not detract from the fact that we do most > of the things that other Rover clubs do. I'd just like to be able to > show the regional clubs that there is a truly international club out > there, and all it requires is a computer and a modem to join. A > mention once or twice doesn't really do that, a listing in the Club > pages does. This "club" does a lot more than many formal clubs, at least in terms of communications between members and the occassional regional gathering where people may get together to actually meet some of the other list members (Speaking of which, there are about a dozen OVLR members going down to the British Invasion at Stowe Vermont (Sept 17-18), and at least four will be bringing their Land Rovers.) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:51:20 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Proposed Club Name From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:30:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) writes: > A club motto could be "Show Us Your Layshaft" or "I've Got More Knobs Than Yo > and I Know How to Use 'Em". As long as you don't steal the unofficial OVLR motto "Shit Happens"... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 14:28:40 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 15:16:35 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Denis's Dipstick Doings To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steve Writes: >> ...the dipstick transmissions are series1 and 2....some very early 2a's...so to get a dipstick (stop it Maloney...) you have to use at least the case and top cover from one of these....(the case and top cover on all LR trannies are matched BTW)..the trouble here is that these units have a smaller layshaft (*get* a life,Maloney!...).)and the later "guts" will require some machining of the case to use.....It really isn't worth it in my estimation...but I've done it...If you really leak that much oil,perhaps an "IV bag" is in order :-) steve....... >> Steve is correct in saying that the top and bottom halves of the main gearboxes are matched. What this means to you is that the selector shaft passages are line bored with the halves bolted together. The result is that if you mix top and bottom halves from different boxes together, then bolt them down, the selector shafts are held TIGHT. They don't move for nothin'!!! If you are patient you can, by way of careful machining of the pasages of the top halve's passage way, make it fit. You must be patient, however. I found this out the hard way (Don't ask, Stevo) and learned that the quickest way to remove the material is with a dremel with a drum sanding attachment. Make an even pass though all 3 passages (top half only) then flush & dry thoroughly. Bolt it down, Move the selectors back & forth using a rubber mallet. Unbolt the cover and examine the passages. You will see where the shafts contacted the high spots. Repeat the process working on the high spots 'til the selectors slide easily. Actually once you can rotate them slightly with your fingers that's enough. Pull it off once more and finish with fine abrasive paper and oil or steel wool & oil. Be very careful to remove all traces of filings/abrasives as you don't want them in your tranny. Regarding responding to previously asked questions, I see a lot of new folks come on the net with questions. They may have been addressed before, but these folks really need help and I'd rather put up with a few extra messages in my mailbox than leave them out in the cold. For the past couple of months when I see a question that has been addressed previously, I pull the response out if I've saved it and send it to the requestor direct if the return address is accurate. I remember when I got my first Rover and how a lot of very generous folks helped me with tips and advice. In the end I'd say definately respond, and it's your choice/judgement as to whether you want to reply direct or through the net. My 2 Cents worth. Bill malonet@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 15:58:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: British Marque From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 14:55:44 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) writes: > I just received my September issue of British Marque, and the front page > article covers the Stowe British Invasion September 16-18. In the article it > states "On Sunday there will be an expanded Tailgate Picnic > competition... Expect the Canadian Land Rover group to present quite a > spectacle!". Where is Dale, aka Baldrick, aka something very silly... :-) > Dixon, what ever could they mean? No idea. We are very prim, proper, serious, teetotalers up here where some live by the motto "shit happens" when the above fails to occur... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 15:49:26 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 16:41:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Maloney's Slapstick Doings To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO ok...some technical stuff for hard boiled rover cases out there...btw i'm typing "Righty only" 'cause i opened up a hot radiator for laughs and giggles...didn't find either...... the early S2 trans has a smaller layshaft....so if that is perceived to be a problem for you due to breakage, stop now and hit delete.... in concert with this,the input shaft with gear and the counter gear are a different ratio than the "B" and later trans. So,ifin' ya put the late input shaft and matching counter gear in an early trans,you get a lower 1st,2nd,and 3rd gear...!!!!!(4th,being "direct", stays the same) Cool! you can now get that 109sw started on a hill in high range! But wait!!!! the early S2 had a different low range ratio to make up for the higher 1st gear in the "correct" main gearbox.....sooo if you use one of these transfer boxes with the later trans,you get a lower 1st gear/low range....*And* if you use the handy-dandy gear box i just discribed,you get a real rock crawling low range and still maintain the same top gear/high range! Can you say"wide ratio"?.....the transfer box also,is "weaker" due to the smaller intermediate shaft (easy to identify...it's alot smaller...you can see it by looking just to the left of the parking brake drum) However.....*I* haven't been able to break mine yet..... hot rod antics,big whompin' engines and general tomfoolery, need not apply... all others....try it,you'll like it! ps. the final overall ratios in the book are the same for 2 and 2a...but the *way* that these ratios are obtained are different.....check part numbers etc. ...... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 17:07:58 1994 Date: 01 Sep 94 17:59:47 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: UNIMOG mayhem Status: RO On 30 Aug 1994 Roeland van Delzen wrote: > <...snip...snip...> > <...snip...> I encountered Germans in a brand new UNIMOG, completely > prepared. Cost: about 100.000 DM ! He told me he drove about 25 km in the > dessert. However, it was a track where even a 2 wheel drive VW bus could > drive. He dared not to go into the dessert any further, because he was > afraid of damaging his vehicle ! Ah, the UNIMOG "adventurers" ... they are SO pathetic, aren't they? I was at a globetrotter meet last weekend where all sorts of strange folks and vehicles congregated. You had converted ex-military MAN 8X8 (not a typo!) monsters with fully air conditioned stainless steel cabins strapped to them, contrasting with a guy who had just come back from Greenland which he had crossed... *walking* ! Anyway, come sunday morning when it was time for leaving it was raining, and had been raining all night. Now the site was a kind of big sloping meadow surrounded by woods & cow fences, very picturesque and Black-Forest-like, *but* the entry/exit gate where all had to go through was uphill at the _top_ of the site. Well, you can imagine that after the first couple'o dozen vehicles had gone over that patch of grass the ground around the exit gate was pretty mucked up and slippery, the usual rutted mud w/grass sods. Nothing that would worry a Land Rover, though, and the Rovers, Toyotas and *most* other 4WDs quite effortlessly ploughed their way up through the gook and made it out through the gate. One VW Beetle, having failed on first try, turned back to take a long run and had a go for it, lifting off on a few bumps, then skidded uphill right across the muddy part more or less on its belly and litterally catapulted himself through the gate out onto the street - good aim! This performance must have given a wrong conception to someone about how to properly negotiate uphill in mud, because suddenly we hear a deafening roar behind us somewhere, and there comes this UNIMOG "ActionMobil" expedition rig sort of thing tearing across the premises, its stacks blowin' thick black like it was the Rubber Duck out of "Convoy", flinging mud, grass & cowchips all over the place, enters the muddy part and... skids out of control, flattens a (fortunately empty) VW Jetta parked alongside the entry, crashes through the fence sideways, skids across the street and continues backwards into an orchard where it collects a few young apple trees in its path. You should've seen the kids applauding, it was better than the movies! Lateron when damage assessment and recovery was in progress you could see this guy fumbling through the manual of his h-u-g-e Warner winch - he had never used it before! And as for the skidding part, someone took the trouble to explain to him a) what a locking central differential was, b) how and when to use it, and c) that his rig was actually equipped with one. Well, that's UNIMOG drivers for you. Finally, to give this narrative a clear Rover purport, let me finish by saying that not a single one of the Land Rovers got stuck or even had a wheel slip on that part. Take care, Stefan <100043.2400@compuserve.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 19:27:42 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 02:22:18 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Little Things...... To: Steven M Denis Cc: Mike Rooth , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, Steven M Denis wrote: > > Not from Austrialia I fear, the hat with the folded up brim is from > northern India!...As much as I would like to think that the "King's Guraka > Rifles" wore that headgear to help with egress from the landies,it is > ,alas, not so....The upper higlands have much open country,hence the > large floppy brim,BUT the open spaces lead to long range shots(in excess > of 1 mile,I'm told) sooo the chaps were issued lone barraled rifles not > the shorter .303 Enfields....all goes well untill they go to sling the > buggers....and ,to a man,knock their hats in the dung....not > regimential,that...... > So....get the hat in dark brown so the muck don't show,and stand > tall,you're in good company! > steve..... > > > "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." > > "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis > " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 > " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA > " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 The Gurka's used to wear them and i think they still do. If you call N.A.A.F.I., they might be able/willing to tell who's making them. Personally i prefer a tweed sixpence which IMO goes fine with a Landie, -along with my John Lennon sunspex. Yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 20:07:14 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 19:58:09 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Perhaps we might consider using the IRC system on Internet. For those who don't know what IRC is, it stands for Internet Relay Chat, and is a real time connection to other people on the net. In my area you type dp enter and when you get a prompt, you type irc space _d space enter and you are on. You type / list and you get a list of people wishing to chat. If we post a title like Land Rover, you type /join Land Rover and now you can talk to other Land Rover types in real time. It would mean having like a meeting from time to time instead of just sending Email. Just an idea. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 21:15:46 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 03:20:20 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re2: Proposal: A new LR club To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <2280CD768C8@wfoclan.usbm.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, John R. Benham wrote: > > From: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk > > Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh > > To: lro@stratus.com > > Date sent: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 09:23:54 +0000 > > Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club > > Priority: normal > > > > IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk writes: > > > > > > > I'd like to suggest that we register our distribution-list as a club > > > > in LRO & LRW. > > > > > > Surely they already know of the list. LRO and LRW have been > > > receiving the OVLR newsletter for quite a while and the details > > > about this mailing list have been mentioned many times in the > > > newsletter. If they want to add it, fine, but they do have > > > the details, assuming they had a clue about the InterNet and > > > what it is. I know the LRW is aware of the list, but just have > > > not gotten a hook-up to the InterNet yet. > > > > This "InterNet" thing is a big unknown for a lot of people here in > > the UK. Getting access is not *that* difficult, the cheapest > > commercial system I could use works out at 120pounds (pa) for > > subscription and ~1pound per hour telephone charges (I've got a local > > modem bank). > > > > Most people don't really understand what this e-mail thing is all > > about -- it tends to be 'a serious tool for company use only', so > > they don't think about the possibility of a leasure use for it. > > > > My idea was to try to expand our userbase to interest more people. > > > > I suppose it comes down to the fact that I feel we should recognise > > ourselves as a club. Just because we don't have a membership fee or > > any formal structure does not detract from the fact that we do most > > of the things that other Rover clubs do. I'd just like to be able to > > show the regional clubs that there is a truly international club out > > there, and all it requires is a computer and a modem to join. A > > mention once or twice doesn't really do that, a listing in the Club > > pages does. > > > > I remember the last time that a non-rover thread started to rampage > > around the net -- alot of people didn't like it. I don't want to push > > this list into something it isn't (a new one can always be started to > > cover that). This is a free list and I want to keep all the good > > things that it has, but I also want to tell more people we exist. > > > > Less that a dozen people have expressed an opinion, most of them have > > been pro. What does everyone else think? is this the wrong place to > > do this? Shall I send out the list of names suggested? shall I drop > > the whole thing? > > > > > > ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 > > Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. > > World Wide Web site -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ > > #======================================================================# > > I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do > > Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. > > > > Ian, > > Why have a `list' of Rover internet names. The Rover owners who > use it already know who is on the net. Also, if it gets any larger, > it becomes more difficult to weed through all of the messages. > So far, the only commercial message I have seen was from some > Florida people trying to sell us Rovers. Did it ever occur to them > that we already have Rovers and that they don't wear out? My feeling > is to leave the Net alone. The net will naturally grow in numbers > and I'm sure someone will always try to break in for it's commercial > potential. By making a LRO list would only tempt the commercial > sector. > As far as naming us as a group, we already are a group and have a > name: LRO. We can't meet like normal clubs, since we are so dispersed > (as one netter states), so why `organize' more than what it is now. > > Regards, > > John R. Benham > Spokane, WA USA > > > I certainly agree with John. Skipping all the diesel stuff shows on the phonebill.No seriously. The list CAN be used for club purposes, as we see from time to time. Also, the net (list) is a fine media if a (semi-)national club welcomes outside/ international participation in arrangements. Netters can pass information on to their respective clubs. Wide spread club to club/individual info with only a few Kb af ascii. May i instead suggest two lists to be maintained by volunteers: A. A world wide Land-Rover club list with addresses and club secretaries. B. A world wide Land-Rover dealers/part shops/garage list. Both lists could be useful and interesting to travellers and circumnavigators. The lists should preferably be maintained where it could be FTP'ed. (I have dial-in access). The ''B'' list is an invitation to commercial advertisement, but the maintainer could cut out ''irrelevant'' text and mask the entries to be more or less standard. BTW, i'm about to make a presentation on Dansk Land-Rover Klub. Just need a few details before posting. Yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 20:40:15 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 03:36:44 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Lube'ing the Hwy was Re: Proposal: A new LR club To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9408311906.AA04812@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > In message Steven M > Denis writes: > > > > Yup...I can see it now > > > > "Quick Earl!,Get the net...those durn Land Rovers are four wheeling on > > the information highway!" > > > > Are we,as a group,dropping clods of mud on the information superhighway?? > > > > No, I like to think we are providing the world a service by lubercating the > internet with the 90 wt leaking from our cars as they speed from node to node. > Those electrons just flow a little faster and easier with a lubercated > net....unless of course the electrons happen to get stuck behind a Land Rover on > its way to the next node. > > > > TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards > LINK: TWAKEMAN > 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 I tried to mail to a friend who runs a BBS with fido. It didn't arrive yet. Must have landed in the middle of landie convoy jamming the gateway. +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 19:37:52 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 20:37:02 EST To: lro@team.net Subject: a new thread? Content-Length: 500 Status: RO Not to interrupt the discussion of the club name, but the folks over at rally-l are having a neat little conversation about Lucas' having invented daytime running lights and intermittent wipers (they just weren't the manufacturer to label the switch intermittent... >> A free Lucas 3-position toggle switch ("Off," "Flicker," and "Dim") is >> offered as an inducement to the first five new members > I thought that the Lucas switch was "Dim", "Flicker", and "Short"... :-) Tee hee. Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 21:56:21 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 04:52:39 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Discovery / Defender Premium Fuel? To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 1 Sep 1994, dixon kenner wrote: > "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> writes: > > > Regarding the use of standard unleaded gas all I can say is I wouldn't. > > Just some trivia. In Canada gasoline uses a number of additives > for replacing lead (MMT et cetera) that are banned in the USA. Thus > running unleaded is not as bad here as it is in the USA. I have > also not heard any horror stories from anyone up here visa-vis their > Rover and head problems from unleaded gasoline. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > (Guess this justifies paying $2.50 (approx) a gallon for gasoline) > > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > I use Shell 92oct unleaded for my '76 2.25. It used to run on gas (not gas!), so it can do without the lead. 1990 > Disco and Defender are modern cars, made in Europe where leaded petrol is getting extremely unpopular. I can't think of a modern (Defender modern?) eurocar that needs lead. In Sweden leaded petrol is forbidden. (And diesel is extremely overtaxed. Taking more than 200l of diesel into Sweden results in a SEK 10.000 (1.000 pounds) fine.) Anyone can find the engine number and check with the nearest LR dealer to find out if the engine runs with unleaded. In 1988 unleaded fuel was a newish thing in Denmark. People were afraid to use it. DTU (Danish Tech. Univ.) did a survey and found that 85% of the cars registered in Denmark could use unleaded. And with 180% car tax upon first registration, cars get old in this country. Yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 00:23:22 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: names From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 23:02:57 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Become a club, have a president and secretary, UG. Who wants that job? Seems like it would remove all the fun out of the system. We are on the most part a fairly civilised bunch, we even know how to apologise if we have too. I like the informal threads and things that go on here, lets keep it fun, sometimes getting all organsised kills it for most people. Thats how I feel, Robin. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 00:24:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: LRO MAGAZINE From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 23:06:33 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I have been watching the change that is going on with LRO since the emap take over recently, and talking to a whole bunch of people about it. what one gleans I have to say is for the most part scuttlebutt , but that can have a grain of truth in it. So for what its worth heres what I have picked up and noticed, all disinterestd parties exit here. The orgainsation is being run with Martin Hodder as the over seeing editor , Paul Horrell assisted by Carl Rogerson are the editors and junior / asst ed. Not really Land Rover people from what I hear apart from Martin that is.. Alot of insiders see that EMAP looks at LRO as a cash cow wainting to be milked. We the readers should get of our butts and be more expressive of what we feel about alot of things. For instance, LRO used to run some appaling adverts from one of the major tyre companies. it was an advert that would not have made it into any North American magazine because of its derrogatory and belittleing treatment of aboriginl persons. I felt strongly about that advert. To me a magazine like LRO that claims to have an international appeal should be more carefull of its content. I wrote the tyre company, its US head office, and LRO magazine. I got a phone call from the UK from the HEAD of the UK division of the company saying that they were very sorry for the advert but it was pressed on them form European head office. They would pass my comments on. A week later I got a letter from the person responsible for the ad, they had now pulled it and apologised. The power of one. So for all those of you who get LRO and whine about it , write them and let them know, they will never hear about it otherwise. The sept 94 issue came a few days ago and I have these cooment s about it. I think that the yellow 88 on the front has occupied that spot once before. Will have to check back on that one. on page 8 Richard Thomas is going on about how Land Rover is protecting it sname and getting tough on the subject. Turn to page 17 and look at the Discovery in the back ground that sports "UN" on the door, a little bit of a double standard here? The 127 on the bottom of page 153, four doors storage area behind, great looking vehicle, take off the lights and this would be a great civvy vehicle. One of the best land Rovers for a long time IMHO. The coastguard article on 188 really bugs me. i think this was ghost written seing as there is no name credit for it, that really bugs me when no one will put their name to something. page 194, Vincent Hammersley states: "the greatest quantity of Defenders built in one year was 56,000 in 1970...." WRONG , WRONG and WRONG again. Defenders are a coil sprung vehicle, in 1970 no one had thought up the ghastly name. it really bugs me when Land Rover, and dont forget that Vincent Hammersley is one of the top pr peole at Lode lane, try and ride the suceess of the the "Defender " on top of the IMHO sometimes better quality older series of vehicle. They make some outlandish calims to production figures these days, like "To date Land Rover has produced nearly two million vehicles and DEFENDER accounts for more than 1.5 million of these." See what i mean? I have by the way, always been somewhat outspoken about what Lnad Rover says and have clashed horns with Mr Hammersley in public before! On the interesting side take a closer look at the 110 rolling down the line on page 197, yes the white on in the foreground, interesting spec if you look at it long enough. Congrats to dixon for his work that gets him a name check on p 220. having been involved with OVLR or a number of years i know what it is to "do" a monthly newsletter. I put out one myself aswell. Whilst reading International Off Roader, yes I write for them aswell, so I do have an interest, there has been lively coverage of the "BULL BAR" debate going on in the UK that has been for the most part kept fairly low in profile in LRO. it seems that the traffic boffins say that bull bars do lotsa more injury to pedestrians in accidents, they are not "soft" etc etc. So they should be pulled and banned etc. One wise person asked roufully what about the 18 wheelers? they are pretty unfriendly to pedestrians too! Dont you love it when a bureaucrat gets his / her teeth into an issue. Must say that the contents section for his issue was alot better this time. I am still waiting for my LRW to appear. thanks for the minute Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 02:53:52 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 08:47:26 UNDEFINED Status: RO Why am I suddenly getting a digest? Is everyone else? Or have I done something to annoy someone.......... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:09:13 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Query on L/R product development / Safety research Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:06:35 UNDEFINED Status: RO >From riding in some of their vehicles, I wouldn't have thought Land Rover had given safety much thought :-) I am quite happy with em. Especialy their design philosophy no crumple-zones. They build em into the other car. The farmers on Anglesey are about as brain dead as its possible to be and still be calles anthropoid. One in a 110 pulled out in front of one of teh biggest Volvo estates (cant remember the model number - I have my pride....), tanking along teh road at fair lick. The 110 was T-boned amidships. It was badly dented. Looked like several hours in teh barn with a hammer to fix it. The Volvo was only recognisable as such from teh turret backwards. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:16:24 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Newsgroup opinion.. (No, please) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:13:54 UNDEFINED Status: RO /I'd have to agree with John and TeriAnn, the potential for people to /bombard us with junk mail would probably be enough for myself and /probably many others to leave this "oasis home" for Land Rover owners. I read rec.motorcycles, one of teh noisiest groups around. Actually all the flaming adn polemical close-combat can be fun. But even if I cant e bothered with it, it's no great hardship to simply wipe the threads that have turned noisy. Same with mail. /As it is, I (as well as you all, I'm sure) get WELL OVER 100 e-mail /messages per day, even the 50 or so we got from the LRO list yesterday /was a bit heavy, although now, in digest mode, it's easier to manage. /I've only visited some of the "open" newsgroups on occasion, and from /what I've seen, don't care to have any part of it. I actually get about teh saem. But most of tehse are noise from mailing lists. Few are hatemail from rec.motorcycles. It doesnt seem to be a problem in real life. Also I now find myself on the digest. Which means I have to plough thru the whole damned thing to pick out teh info, instead of being able to simply ignore threads that done interest me. There are big advantages to getting lots of individual messages over one huge one, if your newsreader has a thread-mode... (I use Trumpet on a PC) /I WOULD however, like to see us organized, or united by a name. Yes, we HAH!!!!! I thought lorry owners were individualists. "I am not a number. I am a free man." From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:23:01 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Newsgroup? Bio, thanks from BP Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:18:56 UNDEFINED Status: RO > The problem is, I'm not sure how to go about creating the newsgroup. I > guess it's easier to create groups in the alt. hierachy, but I think with > some sort of a vote it would be possible to create a rec. group. / / Alt is easy. Rec requires a vote. Alt would be preferable for me. Since our newsswerver expires all rec. groups every midnight, so it misses 3/4 of teh posts. It would mean I have to download via a foreign site, just to keep up with you lot's collected wisdom :( I dont see any fundamental problem with a newsgroup as such, but for my own convenience I am happy with the mailing list. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:31:49 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: UNIMOG mayhem Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:24:59 UNDEFINED Status: RO /onto the street - good aim! This performance must have given a wrong /conception to someone about how to properly negotiate uphill in mud, /because suddenly we hear a deafening roar behind us somewhere, and /there comes this UNIMOG "ActionMobil" expedition rig sort of thing /tearing across the premises, its stacks blowin' thick black like it was /the Rubber Duck out of "Convoy", flinging mud, grass & cowchips all /over the place, enters the muddy part and... skids out of control, /flattens a (fortunately empty) VW Jetta parked alongside the entry, /crashes through the fence sideways, skids across the street and //continues backwards into an orchard where it collects a few young /apple trees in its path. You should've seen the kids applauding, it was /better than the movies! Lateron when damage assessment and recovery was /in progress you could see this guy fumbling through the manual of his /h-u-g-e Warner winch - he had never used it before! And as for the /skidding part, someone took the trouble to explain to him a) what a /locking central differential was, b) how and when to use it, and c) that /his rig was actually equipped with one. Well, that's UNIMOG drivers for you. /Finally, to give this narrative a clear Rover purport, let me /finish by saying that not a single one of the Land Rovers got /stuck or even had a wheel slip on that part. It was the drivers, not teh MOG. T he SAS play with these things in the hills behind where I live. After they've been thru in a MOG, you simply cant ever use that road again with anything else.......... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 05:34:44 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Bull Bars/LR Safety To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 11:23:23 BST Status: RO Just my two pennorth on these subjects. Safety.I have heard an eminent accident inspector say that the best safety device in his opinion would be a bloody great spike fixed to the centre of the steering wheel pointing at the driver.I must say I agree with him.The most dangerous thing about a lot of vehicles is IMO,the driver.Surrounded with "fail safe" devices he regards himself as immortal.Only too often he realises this is a fallacy far too late.I'm just grateful my crumple zones are other peoples. Your safety,in my view(which I dont expect many folk to share)is your own responsibility.There is no substitute for skill in any field.The greater the skill,the safer you are.And frankly,I'd rather be in my old 11A than any Euro/Jap crap vehicle surrounded by so called "safety devices" any or all of which are potential failures. As for Bull Bars,well, personally I dont rate 'em.I fail to see the advantage in driving around with a field gate bolted to my front bumper.Hit something and it bends back causing far more damage to its parent vehicle than if it wasnt there in the first place.HOWEVER,isnt it about time that pedestrains were told to keep *off* the road in the first place.Not only do we have all this hoo-haa about Bull Bars,there was also a suggestion by the good Mr Thomas in LRO that we drive around with our headlamps on all day so that we could be easily seen,presumably by jaywalking shortsighted jerks.If the twerps cant see a Land Rover,for god's sake lit up or not,they shouldnt be out without a nanny.And sitting up where I am I can see *them* (and the nanny's legs)a damned sight earlier than if I was in a "soft" soft? vehicle with my arse two inches from the road. I submit that the bottom line is this."Safety" is a double edged sword. By promoting it,quite rightly in my view,we try to make people more aware of danger,and to protecr them therefrom.*Is* there such a word? BUT,and its a big but,overdo it and you either induce panic,ie you actually frighten some people(not A Good Thing)or you destroy the inbuilt sense of danger.Another Bad Thing.Example.When I was a kid, I knew that if a strtch of stream I was mucking about in appeared still it was deep.A no-go area.No-one told me.They didnt have to.I also knew that if I went home with wet socks inside my wellies I would get a thick ear.Its called safety training.Nowadays kids get drowned because there is no notice saying"this is deep water,dont get wet socks".Simply because we have overdone the safety thing.I say nothing against making the world safer,but at some stage someone is going to have to have the courage to point out that whatever the efforts its still a dangerous place,AND ALWAYS WILL BE. OK,we all drive a fairly bis,hefty machine.The older ones have nothing in the way of safety devices,so they are very "hands on".We also know that if we clout anything a)It causes grief to the cloutee,and b)The clouter is going to have to mend it him(or her)self.Even leaving aside any sense of responsibility we have to the rest of the human race,thats a pretty good incentive for responsible driving.In fact,I would suggest its 98% of all you need.The other 2%,safety devices right left and centre are I suggest at best,not cost effective,and at worst counterproductive. Sorry if I've "gone on" a bit about this,my excuse is that three weeks ago I saw a direct result of this overprotective(if that's the right word)attitude.A tipping tanker was unloading 25 tons of sand about 30 yards from my office.It was an artic,and the tank was nearly vertical. I'd seen these in action for the best part of the week,and stayed well clear of them when they were like that.They didnt *look* right. On the Thursday there was a groaning crunch.The tank had fallen over. Unfortunately,a woman was walking right alongside it at the time.It killed her.The argument afterwards was that the area in question should have been coned off.Perhaps so,in today's climate,but I still maintain that poor woman would still be alive today if her sense of danger hadnt been atrophied by the safety experts. I've a feeling I've bored you enough,and probably enraged some of you so I've got my fireproof suit on(or perhaps I should rely on ducking):-) Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 07:30:58 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 08:19:57 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Denis's Doofy Dipstick Doings To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Gentle Steve Writes: >> ...btw i'm typing "Righty only" 'cause i opened up a hot radiator for laughs and giggles...didn't find either...... >> Don't believe him for a minute!!! You can be sure that if he stuck his paw somewhere it didn't belong, it certainly wasn't on a radiator cap!!! >> the early S2 trans has a smaller layshaft....so if that is perceived to be a problem for you due to breakage, stop now and hit delete.... in concert with this,the input shaft with gear and the counter gear are a different ratio than the "B" and later trans. So,ifin' ya put the late input shaft and matching counter gear in an early trans,you get a lower 1st,2nd,and 3rd gear...!!!!!(4th,being "direct", stays the same) Cool! you can now get that 109sw started on a hill in high range! >> I have a Series III main box and an early suffix A (Smaller intermediate shaft) in my 109. On the road the 109 is geared much taller (7.5R 16s) than my 88 (235 70R 15s) I know that the tires have a lot to do with this but I wonder if the diff ratios are different (2.25 gas w/Salisbury rear end). Anyway, when I use the low range on the 109 it is noticeably lower than the 88 in low range with smaller tires. I just recently finished building a late IIA main and early suffix A transfer for my 88. Next spring or summer I'll put it in and see how it works. If you can get an early transfer as a spare it will make a good project for the winter to rebuild. Aside from that big mother snap ring and the front (or is it rear) bearing race that's tricky to remove, it's not too difficult (just be sure to follow the manual and not get ahead of yourself) and fairly rewarding. Parts are a bit scarce in the US and you may want to try Merseyside or Craddock if something you need is unavailable here. Bill malonet@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 08:30:55 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 09:03:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Busy Rover Event Schedule To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO This fall in the northeast US there is quite a lot going on: September 16-18, Stowe VT - British Invasion - expect about a dozen Land Rovers (hundreds of other Brit makes) (802-253-2106) Ben & I should be there on Saturday September 24, Gladstone NJ - Shoot Out at the OK Corral - It's a Jag meet, but all British cars are invited. Ben and I might crash it (908-369-4654) September 30-Oct 2, Miles Standish Park, MA (?) - Bay State Rovers Fall Heritage Tour (sorry, I don't have a number for Jim). I'll be there, and maybe Ben too c/o Jim Pappas P.O. Box 342 North Scituate, MA, 02060 October 7-10, Virginia - Mid Atlantic Land Rover Rally (804-423-4898) -a must do for all October 15, Dover NJ - MG Marque Day at Moss motors - all British cars are invited (201-361-9358) I may or may not be there depending on my vacation schedule - I'd like to go to Mt. Desert Island this fall. Bill malonet@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 02:51:09 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 2 Sep 1994 08:40:37 +0100 From: "Ian Stuart, Faculty" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 08:39:56 +0000 Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Priority: normal Status: RO ->I think that the yellow 88 on the front has occupied that spot once ->before. Will have to check back on that one. I don't have the magazine handy, but I think you're refering to the issue where they discuss green-laning (that one was an R-reg) ->page 194, Vincent Hammersley states: "the greatest quantity of Defenders ->built in one year was 56,000 in 1970...." WRONG , WRONG and WRONG again. -> ->Defenders are a coil sprung vehicle, in 1970 no one had thought up the ->ghastly name. it really bugs me when Land Rover, and dont forget that ->Vincent Hammersley is one of the top pr peole at Lode lane, try and ride ->the suceess of the the "Defender " on top of the IMHO sometimes better ->quality older series of vehicle. They make some outlandish calims to ->production figures these days, like "To date Land Rover has produced ->nearly two million vehicles and DEFENDER accounts for more than 1.5 ->million of these." Yes, that bugged me too! ->Whilst reading International Off Roader, yes I write for them aswell, so ->I do have an interest, there has been lively coverage of the "BULL BAR" ->debate going on in the UK that has been for the most part kept fairly ->low in profile in LRO. -> ->it seems that the traffic boffins say that bull bars do lotsa more injury ->to pedestrians in accidents, they are not "soft" etc etc. So they should ->be pulled and banned etc. One wise person asked roufully what about the ->18 wheelers? they are pretty unfriendly to pedestrians too! They say that a 4x4 with bull-bars does more damage at 10mph that a normal vehicle does at 25mph. I would have to agree: ANY 4x4 is going to do more damage that a normal car, bull-bars or not :-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 10:23:28 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 11:02:38 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally Status: RO Trying to get all our ducks in a row for the outing, including a liscense from the state alcoholic beverage control board. Seems that a liscense is going to cost more than the beer...and then we can't sell it even as a non-profit organization...we have to *give* it away. (...distant cheers heard from Ontario....) We're going to have a keg of pilsner and one of porter from a new local micro-brewery, "Legendary Brewing" Sounds just about right... Has anyone replaced a headlight with a halogen sealed beam? I'm still running with *original* (i.e., 22 yr old) Lucas bulbs that, according to one of the Ottawa crew, serve more to warn on coming motorists than actually illuminate the right of way. Even with a pair of 150w driving lamps for off-road, I could still use a bit more that the feeble brown light of the Lucas'. A year or so ago, I went to the auto parts store and bought a set of Phillips "7 inch" halogen headlights, but these would no fit the 7 inch bezel of the Rover. Suggestions? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 11:10:18 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 12:08:04 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Hey you west coasters out there- Anyone know of rover freak by the name of David Haseman?? Was speaking to the British Pacific folks the other day tracking down some history of my dear Nigel (a '60 SII 88 who was born and raised in the CA sun) and they told me that David was the guy who once "put alot of work" (synonous with $$$$$) into him. Supposedly, he live(s,d?) in the Pasedena area. If you know of or meet up with him, please thank him for me and let him know danige is alive and well on the "right" coast (as viewed from up-over). thanks, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 11:45:58 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 09:43:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy Rose 818-395-3840 Subject: Re: oil pressure loss To: lro@team.net X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Jory writes: In a similar (though contrasting) vein, I was recently on my bi-weekly 1.5 hour highway commute, when I noticed my oil pressure drop to 0!!! I immediately turned off my engine, and coasted about 2.5 miles to an exit (amazing luck to have this happen at the top of a hill). (SNIP AND CUT) It turned out the mechanical oil gauge feed tube had broken, and the oil was spilling out this tube. *** Sounds familiar! Goes like this: was driving one night last year. My feet were getting warm (OK nothing too unusual). Then I smelled oil. Then my feet felt wet. Hey!, wait a minute, what's going on! High pressure hose to the dual gauge broke, just behind the gauge, in the dash. Still haven't got the smell of out the jute in the upholstery. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 12:02:51 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:00:03 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net, azw@aber.ac.uk Subject: Re: Query on L/R product development / Safety research Status: RO To give Land Rover credit, there was a mesage on this list some time ago about a video which showed the testing they went through (done in Australia, I think) to make sure the airbags wouldn't go off accidentally in off-road hammering in the Discovery. I too think safety as such has been somewhat of an afterthought at Land Rover, but by happy accident it is built in and they now capitalize on it! Things like the 14 gauge steel box section frame and the biggest brakes in the business don't hurt. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 12:07:32 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:06:15 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Status: RO I agree especially about the bullbars -- I have never seen them to be useful for anything but appearance. The same applies to the ridiculous headlight and taillight protectors sold as accessories -- the chances are you then have to to pay for new "protectors" AND new taillights if they get hit. Also, has anyone tried working oin an engine in a bullbar equipped vehicle -- I would think it would entail a lot of leaning over and reaching. These statements are slightly tongue in cheek -- but I'd be interested to know if anyone has found bullbars/brushbars to be useful? I am willing to change my mind!  John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 13:27:41 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 14:22:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety To: John Brabyn Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9409021706.AA16939@skivs.ski.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I've had limbs smack the lamp cages hard enough to dent the fender and would imagine that the plastic lenses would not have found that "amusing"....but your point is well taken....the trouble and hassle when changeing bulbs takes the edge off....without the guards,you might have a *much* easier time 'cause there wouldn't be any lenses in the way either.. :-).... It is the same point with the "Bra" that you can put over the front of your car to keep the paint beautiful(no bugs or stone chips),but you and others can't*enjoy* the paint 'cause it covered up by the big black bra..... It has gotten to where the *look* is the whole thing.....Birch Bark canoes were built with the brown inner bark on the *outside* ....so the outer white layers were on the inside.....will someone explain that to the makers of the aluminum canoes with the fake white birch bark exteriors.... If anyone had built a *real* canoe that way,the would have been laughed off the water....... the lowered (and raised,for that matter) jeeps and suzukies with the low profile tires are the same type of things....(raise the body,fine,but the diffs are still the low point...) this is why my rovers are nearly "stock"....it becomes an "anti-car"...it actually does what it looks like and looks like what it does...and therein lies the appeal..... steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 13:41:39 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Cc: "Rostykus, Phyllis" Subject: RE: LRO Club Name List Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 11:35:00 PDT Encoding: 13 TEXT Status: RO I was looking at the list of names, unable to decide, so I thought I'd enlist the help of my wife's imagination. 2 minutes after forwarding her the list, I got a reply. Remember this is a non-biased (ok, maybe a little biased) observer's recommendation... "I like 'Car List Rejects'" While I would like a name with Land Rover in it, somehow this seems to really fit our motley crew... ->8*] John Rostykus john@data-io.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 13:44:28 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 11:40:41 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Regarding the raising and other mods done by non-Land Rover owners, it always amuses me that they raise them then put axle trusses on to REDUCE ground clearance -- but needed I guess due to the flimsy axles they use. Also of course the suspension usually ends up even stiffer than before, reducing traction on uneven terrain whenever one wheel droops. The host of other problems such mods cause (driveline vibration, speedo decalibration, higher effective gearing, etc etc) make us all grateful to have Land Rovers , which don't need modifying. John Brabyn 89 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 14:42:09 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 11:30:55 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Hear Hear! John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 15:43:03 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 13:38:53 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: jory@figment.mit.edu Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO I take back the remark about the light protectors!! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:22:03 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 10:40:28 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO David John Place writes: > Perhaps we might consider using the IRC system on Internet. For those who > don't know what IRC is, it stands for Internet Relay Chat, and is a real > time connection to other people on the net. Unless you are a uucp site (like fourfold), or have a firewall at your site that barely lets mail through (like StatsCan et al). Sounds great, but has even a more limited audience that the mailing-list. (Most limiting in terms of who can use it would be the web sites using mosiac etc) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:23:08 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re2: Proposal: A new LR club From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:31:01 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO S|ren Vels Christensen writes: > The list CAN be used for club purposes, as we see from time to time. Also, > the net (list) is a fine media if a (semi-)national club welcomes outside/ > international participation in arrangements. Netters can pass information on > to their respective clubs. Wide spread club to club/individual info with > only a few Kb af ascii. The mailing list is certainly being used by a few clubs for keeping up to date vis-a-vis events et cetera, as well as informing others of their club events. The OVLR Birthday Party and the ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally are two that spring to mind right off hand. > A. A world wide Land-Rover club list with addresses and club secretaries. > B. A world wide Land-Rover dealers/part shops/garage list. This exists in the form of the FAQ. Granted I have not posted and update to it since last July (probably should, it has doubled in size), but it has a list of clubs and suppliers. Granted it is very North American - UK oriented. I'll post it soonest. Hopefully my mail box will fill with corrections/additions... > BTW, i'm about to make a presentation on Dansk Land-Rover Klub. Just need > a few details before posting. Club wise, the FAQ has no non-UK/USA/Canadian clubs in it. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:20:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LRO MAGAZINE From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:37:55 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) writes: > We the readers should get of our butts and be more expressive of what we > feel about alot of things. I know a lot of people letting their subscriptions lapse because of the way LRO is going. > Must say that the contents section for his issue was alot better this > time. In the derelicts section they identify a brown, very restorable, Land Rover as a Series I. Looking at it, it is obviosly a Series II. > I am still waiting for my LRW to appear. Mine arrived before LRO last week. The LRO arrived after Meadows, Wood, & Ted's did. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:28:12 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: FAQ. Updated version... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:48:17 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO LAND ROVER FAQ last modified: July 22, 1993 archive site: /pub/sol/landrover.faq @ triumph.cs.utah.edu (99k) Edited by: Dixon Kenner (OVLR) Contributors: Ted Rose (OVLR) (Gen'l Maint) Ian Stuart (UK Clubs) Greg Hiner < > (Suppliers) Original file: /pub/sol/landrover.ascii @ triumph.cs.utah.edu (13k) by Teriann Wakeman Introduction: This FAQ is primarily concerned with Land Rovers built between 1948 and 1984 (The end of the Series III). While there may seem to be emphasis placed on North American Land Rovers, this is due to information available at the time of writing. Any additional information, or corrections, are welcome. At the time of this version, the FAQ remains incomplete. dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca ============================================================================= CONTENTS: 1. What is a Land Rover? 2. What Land Rovers were imported to North America? - Series I - Series II & IIA - Series III 3. Engines - Petrol (4 cylinder) - Diesel - Petrol (6 cylinder) 4. Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover - Checking under the Land Rover - Starting the engine - Test driving - Land Rover extras - Value 5. Specifications - General - Capacities (fluids) 6. Chassis numbering 7. Magazines & publications 8. Clubs 9. Parts - USA & Canada - Great Britain ============================================================================= 1. WHAT IS A LAND ROVER Land Rovers are true classic roadsters with a removable hard top (or soft top) and removable metal side curtains. Land Rovers have an aluminum body with a steel frame, firewall and front (holds radiator). The tops are bolted on. The front doors have side curtains that unbolt. Full metal tops, pickup metal tops and canvas tops are available. The engine, while underpowered, has been described by pro mechanics as seriously overbuilt. The car was meant to survive the charge of a adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. <1> Land Rovers have more charisma in its lug nuts than most cars have in their whole body. They are not very fast, don't have all the comforts for a city new car driver and they are noisy inside. If you get one, you will have to deal with people going ga-ga over it in parking lots, frequent honks from strangers and people staring at your car as they drive past. You also have to deal with people who think it is a Japanese imitation Land Cruiser. Not to worry, owning this khaki coloured monster generates fierce loyalty and enthusiasm among the converted. ============================================================================= 2. WHAT LAND ROVERS WERE IMPORTED TO NORTH AMERICA There are two common types of Land Rover in the United States, a third more uncommon type in North America, and a fourth uncommon type in Canada and the UK. The common Land Rovers are the short wheel base model 88 and the long wheel base model 109. The model 109 was imported into the US until 1968. The model 88 was imported until 1974. There were older models but they are few in number and parts are difficult to get. There are also newer models, but they were not imported to the US. In 1992, a special version of the 110 Discovery was imported into North America where 500 went to the United States, and 25 to Canada. In late 1993, imports of the Defender 90 commenced to North America. This FAQ is aimed at the earlier Land Rovers It is reported that 16,000 Land Rovers were imported into North America when they were available for sale. Estimates of surviving vehicles range from a low of 4,000 to a high of over 10,000. As a comparison, as of 1992, some 19,000 Range Rovers had been imported since 1989. There were three series of Land Rover imported: Series I (a short wheelbase series I seen in "The Gods Must be Crazy")); Series II ('58-60), Series IIA ('61-'69 or '70; and Series III. Most people prefer the IIA to the Series III. Series I Series I were produced from 1947 through 1957. Wheelbases included the 80", 86", and 107". The basic engine was the 2 litre, four cylinder cross flow engine. In 1956 the 88" was introduced, followed in 1958 by the 2 litre diesel and 109". Series II Series II were produced from 1958 to 1961. This saw the introduction of the 2.25 litre petrol engine. Series IIA were produced from 1961 until 1971 in both the 88 and 109 inch wheelbases. In 1962, the 2.25l diesel engine was introduced along with the Forward Control model. In 1967 the 2.6 litre, six cylinder engine was introduced for the 109 Station Wagon, as well as the Series IIB 110 Forward Control model 1967: seperate wiper motors to single motor in dash. 1969: headlamps moved from centre radiator grill to wings Series III Series III were produced from 1971 until the early 1980's. Imports into North America ceased in 1974. The Series III saw the dash revised with black plastic, instruments moved from the centre of the fascia to a position in front of the driver. The door and bonnet hinges are flatter than Series IIA. More hidden was the all-synchro gearbox that was introduced, an uprated clutch, modified brakes with new drums, re-routed brake pipes and servo-assisted brakes as standard on all Station Wagons. And there was the all plastic front grill... In 1972 the V8 101 Forward Control was developed, though not actively produced until 1975 for the British military. Miscellaneous Electrics are positive earth from 1947 until 1967 when they were changed over to negative earth. (Note: a number of owners have changed their Land Rover from positive to negative earth, along with going from the dynamo/generator approach to an alternator. This should not effect the value.) Carberation was changed from the Solex to the Zenith in 1967. Parts and rebuild kits are difficult, if not impossible to obtain for the Solex. A Solex can be rebuilt once. After that it will need to have parts changed that are no longer available. The recommended carb. change when your Solex is worn is to change it to a Weber for increased gas milage and a few more horsepower. You will need the adapter plate used for the Zenith to fit a Weber. Long Wheelbase Models: The 109 came in several versions, of which the two door (pickup) and four door (station wagon) are the most common. The 109 2 door has a 6 foot bed. There is a rare model of four door 109 called the Doormobile. It is the Land Rover camper. It has a pop up top (like the VW van camper), refrigerator, sink, propane stove and other goodies. 109 versions: Regular with canvas top Pick-up Pick-up with 3/4 hood with side windows Regular with hard top Station Wagon (10 or 12 seater) High capacity pick-up Doormobile Short Wheelbase Models: The swb, or 88 came as a two door pick-up, or the more common three door version. Unlike the 109 Station Wagon, it is possible to remove the roof and windows of a swb to create a soft top version. 88 versions: Canvas top Pick-up Pick-up with 3/4 hood Hard top with sliding side windows Station wagon Other Types: The third type is the 101 Forward Control. This is very rare in North America, and to my knowledge only found in the eastern part of the continent. The fourth, uncommon type which can be found in Canada is the military lightweight. This is the military version of the swb Land Rover, and despite the name, actually weighs more than a swb Land Rover, though narrower so to fit into an RAF Andover aircraft. Long and Short Wheelbase Comparisons: 88 - 109 comparison: The 88 being lighter and having a shorter wheel base, is a superior offroad car. It doesn't get stuck as often and can turn in almost half the radius of the 109. Of course you can sleep inside a 109 two door or doormobile. TerriAnn notes: I have no problems taking my LR on long trips and have on several occasions been driving it 8 to 10 hours a day. It went car camping between Monterey bay and Portland Or last year, and on several 200 - 300 mile trips. This year I will take it back to Portland for the Portland all British car meet and to the LA area for the national Dairy goat show. My two door 109 is a great car camping long distance car. Its a bit on the noisy side (a common LR trait) but it is reasonably comfortable and if kept up extremely reliable. When I go on long trips I carry: Spare set of all special hoses, spare points, cap rotor, spare water pump lots of 90 weight oil and tools. On one trip I had to tighten the steering box mounts and add fluid to steering box. Other that that I have not had to work on the car while on a trip (of course I inspect things closely and top off fluids before taking a trip). Since Land Rovers are still in production, you can still get genuine factory parts :*) I get mine mail-order from New hampshire or England. If I am willing to pay overnight, I can get any part for the Land Rover new or used, next day. ============================================================================= 4. THINGS TO LOOK FOR WHEN SHOPPING FOR A LAND ROVER: To start, number one important aspect... FRAME, FRAME, FRAME... A second thing to bear in mind is when using guides to Land Rover purchase, if the guide is from the UK it will be a lot more tough on potential purchases than necessary. There are a lot of Land Rovers in the UK, so they can afford to be picky. In North America we must take what we can get, within reason of course. Another thing to bear in mind is that these are old vehicles. Finding someone to service it, who knows what they are doing, is remote. Be prepared to get your hands well and truly dirty. At minimum, buy the Haynes manual. Preferably buy the factory manuals. Read them. Do the regular scheduled maintenance. Land Rovers are oversized Meccano sets and properly maintaining them is *not* difficult. CHECKING UNDER THE LAND-ROVER: - Check the FRAME carefully for RUST damage. The frame is a thin walled rectangular tube shape, and is made of steel. In some parts of the country, it is not uncommon to find a Land Rover in good condition with a badly rusted frame. Take a hammer with you and firmly hit all crucial areas of the frame. If the frame dents, expect future problems, maybe sooner than later. At the front check behind the bumper (the spring hangers rust away), the shock absorber mounts and then the area around each of the bump stops. It is usually the rear bump stops that are the worst affected, where water and mud go between the chassis and the top of the bump stop mounting plate. Check the chassis outriggers. SWB cars suffer from problems on the right hand side below the rear edge of the door. The close proximity of the fuel tank encourages a build up of mud, which rarely dries out. This is also a difficult area to repair, with the fuel tank and wiring loom going through the frame at this point. Rear outriggers rust, but the big problem at the back is the main chassis behind the spring hangers. This is a major repair job that is both difficult and time consuming. Rot in the rear cross-member is also common. This area is vital for any towing, and on a LWB repair or replacement is made more difficult as the fuel tank must be removed. Resale value of a car with a rusted frame (if water gets in from the top, it can rust the frame from the inside) should be should be very low. However, new galvanized frames are available for around $3K. If you have time & inclination, & you stumble across a Land Rover in very good to excellent condition except for a rusted frame in the less than $1K range, you can add a new frame & get a great car. - The bulkhead is painted steel. Check it for rust. Repair panels are recently available. Figure repair costs into the value of the car. Check the bulkhead to chassis mounting points, the footwells and inner sides of the lower A-posts. Then check the area at the base of the ventilation flaps. Water gets in here and rots the lower corners of the windscreen surround. Check the metal around the top door hinge on each side. Water gets into the door posts and the plate with the captive nuts holding the hinges rusts away, or the nuts seize and plate rips out. You should expect to find rust around the master cylinders. It is possible to repair great portions of the bulkhead, but the work is awkward. - Oil on inside of wheels mean the inner oil seals are history and therefore so are the brakes (oil on the outside is a minor seal problem & doesn't affect the brakes. - Next look at the body above where the drive shaft mates to the differentials (front and back). If there is lots of oil on the body, the pinion seal is history and should be replaced before you accidentally run it out of oil. - There are two large ball joints on the front axle. Inspect these joints carefully for pitting. A pitted ball joint will leak oil away from the front wheel bearings and steering pivot points. The clean parts of these joints should be smooth, unpitted and rust free. Otherwise they need to be replaced. (actually some pitting is inevitable, but they should feel smooth to the touch.) These ball joints are expensive & require the disassembly of the front end. If the ball joints are badly pitted, subtract $1K for repairs. Excessive oil leaks could point to potential problems with a pair of top and bottom steering swivels and an ordinary Hardy Spicer-type universal joint. These run in a protective bath of EP90 gear oil, and though some oil loss is inevitable, excessive loss will lead to rapid wear of the swivels, and to a lesser extent, the universal joints. Dry seals probably mean that the housing is empty of oil. Steering swivels can be checked for wear by jacking up the front of the vehicle (with the weight in the suspension) and attempting to move the tyre in and out sharply from the top. SOme movement is acceptable, but if excessive could mean new swivel pins and universal joint overhauls. - Look at the drive flanges. If there are missing or broken bolts, it could mean that the threads are shot. The threads are very awkward to fix, so it can be another bargaining point. This is caused by owners over tightening the bolts, or forgetting to put anti-sieze compound on the bolts. - Wheel bearings are very large and robust, but the presence of aftermarket road wheels with different offsets could mean that the bearings could be in trouble. - Freewheeling hubs can cause problems. Unless the freewheeling hubs are engaged at least 10 miles for every 50 driven, rapid wear can occur in the steering swivels. A secondary problem that can happen to the differential and half shafts if the hubs are not engaged properly. If the vehicle is habitually run in high two or four wheel drive, all should be well. Selecting low ration in the transfer box for off-road automatically engages four wheel drive in order to split the torque and avoid overloading the rear axle. If the front hubs are disengaged, there is the danger of overloading the axle and damaging the rear drive shaft, and possibly the main gearbox output shaft. Note: Driving in four wheel drive on pavement can be damaging to the drive train. On pavement, the wheels cannot slip and adjust themselves, so you will "wind up" the drive train until it breaks. - Differentials are stong and robust units with most problems occurring in the rear differential when they have been abused. (Note: the crowns and pinions are the same as in the Rover P6 saloon) The problem at the rear is halfshaft failure (Most frequently on Pre-1965 LWB and FC models. Later Series II's have a Salisbury axle (recognised by the squarer casing) and the halfshafts in these are said to be basically unbreakable. Converting between rear axles is possible if the drive shaft is shortened. - Expect the engine and gearbox to be leaking oil (The British never could seem to get the knack of oil seals). Just assume that you should check fluids frequently. A leaking rear seal on the gearbox can lead to the gearbox brake drum filling up, but this should affect its operation that much. It should be noted that the vehicle will rock forward and backwards with the gearbox brake engaged as the drive train takes up any slack. - All Land Rovers leak. You will never seal one up, either for water getting in, or oil getting out. - Heaters are optional & different heaters may have been installed. Least desirable is the Smiths type with the cylindrical core. This is the same that comes in the TR3. The most desirable is called a Kodiak heater. It has a flat core in the firewall. This heater can quickly heat up a 109. Depending upon your location, you can add $$ for this heater. - Older Land Rovers have two windshield wiper motors, each controlling one blade. They both should work. These motors are expensive. If the motor runs slow the grease inside is dried up. Regreasing one is an easy afternoon project, so a slow motor should not be a concern. However, I would deduct about $200 for a non functioning wiper motor. STARTING THE ENGINE: - The engine should start easily and run extremely smoothly at 800 RPM. - Idle oil pressure should be 20lbs or better. Running oil pressure should be around 50lbs. - Pop the radiator cap and leave it off until the engine is warm. There should be no air bubbles (sign of leaky head gasket, cracked head). - Let the car idle. Unlike other British cars that shall remain nameless, it should show no signs of overheating in a prolonged idle. - You can also check out the electrical system while the car is idling. Cars equipped with push pull switches may require the knob to be wiggled a bit to work. This switch has exposed contacts that get oxidized over time. They are easy to clean up. - I do not remember the compression but they should be within 5 lbs or so. TEST DRIVING THE LAND ROVER: - When you drive a Land Rover, expect it to be noisy (no reason to have an expensive stereo here). - When you test drive the car use all gears as well as high and low range. It should be quitest in fourth gear. In pre- series III, DO NOT downshift below third gear while moving. There is no syncro there & the owner may be very unhappy if you were to take off a tooth or two. Be sure to try all 8 gear ratios forward and both reverse ratios. If you have a overdrive thats 16 forward & 4 reverse! The transfer case should smoothly go into & out of 4 wheel drive. - Expect series II transmissions to be louder in first, second and reverse gears since they are straight cut. Otherwise the transmission and transfer case should not be overloud. - When trying out the 4 wheel drive, make sure the front wheels are locked. If you turn the wheel while in 4WD and on dry pavement, expect to feel the steering wheel wobble a bit. This is normal under these conditions & does not happen on icy roads or off road. If you do not feel a wobble in the steering wheel while making a tight turn on dry pavement in 4WD, there is something wrong or you are not really in 4WD with the front hubs locked. - The steering should be smooth and have little or no freeplay. There should be no strange vibrations in either 2 or 4 wheel drive. Steering can be conceeded as heavy and ponderous, and if in top shape, nearly as good as rack and pinion. The design and number of ball joints will make it feel vague. Check the six balljoints, and if there is vertical motion, us this as a bargaining point to drop the price. They are not difficult to replace, and should run C$30 each to replace. Steering vagueness can be adjusted, but beware of your knuckles. A large lugnut needs to be released for the adjuster, and it takes a lot of torque. Adjustment can make a world of difference to the steering. The idler-relay mechanism on the front cross member rarely gives any problem, but if it does, you face real problems. Much of this mechanism lie within the frame and it is not that uncommon to have to chop that piece of the frame out to get it out, and weld a new piece in before refitting it. Before tackling the idler, read a workshop manual. There is a large heavy spring inside, under load, that can be dangerous. - Be sure to check he normal things, such as brakes, steering tightness, etc. - Its the slowest 4x4 on the road, but it is semi-indestructible, and built to be field striped in a jungle with a screwdriver and crescent wrench. LAND ROVER EXTRAS: - A tropical roof with air vents and upper windows is highly desirable. Add 2-3 hundred dollars to value. (This was standard on the 109 Station Wagon) - Add $500 for good condition overdrive. (note: 342 pounds from the UK in July 1993 for a new one.) - Add $700 to $1000 for Positraction differentials. (Assuming you can even find one. 101 Forward Controls are more common than these diffs.) - Newish door seals are worth an extra 2-3 hundred dollars (these are expensive and hard to put on). - Subtract $500 if car has LR six engine. - Leaky engine/tranny seals should not affect price as this is normal. - Doormobile anything are worth more. - Factory manuals are desirable. - Expect paint to be in bad condition and minor dents. - You should get prices for parts that need replacing and subtract those from asking price of LR unless seller has already taken this into account. - Engine swaps such as chevy 6 and 4 are common. The do not increase value. Be careful with Chevy 6 as it tends to overheat in LR unless installation compensates for location of cooling fan. Check this carefully for overheating. - Stay away from 8 cylinder swaps. They had to play some games to get it in there and value is way down. (Unless done via a kit from the UK and using the Rover 3.5l V8) - Most LR instrument panels have been modified. If it looks LR it should not change value. Subtract a few $$ if it looks JC Higgins or wood-working 101. VALUE: - Since Land Rovers are not common and have not been imported for a long time, many people have no idea what they are worth. Many sellers think that they are worth considerably more than they really are. California Doormobile $12K, 109 2 door $6K, 88 $4K, 109 four door $3K Eastern Ontario/western Quebec Doormobile $6k 109 4 door $6k 88 $3k Price will varry with location. Generally areas that saw a lot of Land Rovers will have lower prices. Land Rovers are concentrated in the British Columbia/US northwest and Ontario/ Quebec/US northeast for the most part. Canadian Land Rovers are generally cheaper than their American counterparts because of the greater number of them in Canada. Word of advice: If you really, really want a Land Rover, it can be cheaper to fly first class to some place, but a running, safety certified, and drive it home than pay an outragous price locally for a non-starter. Do your homework. If you can not get a distantly located Land Rover, but have an example nearby that may be over priced, or in poor condition, it may be worth your while to purchase it. It is your call... - These are for good condition runners that are essentially stock. If you look about you may find a fixer up in a field for considerably less. Bargains can be had from people who have no idea what they are worth. Excellent condition cars may command up to twice the above values. Ex-military Land Rovers command a higher price. You will pay the most through a Land Rover parts house. - Parts vehicles should run in the couple hundred dollar range or less, depending on location. - An estimated UK price would be about 1,000 pounds for a Series II with and MoT and years of useful life left in it. LWB models tend to be cheaper, diesels more expensive. A parts vehicle should run around 250 pounds. (1993) ============================================================================ GENERAL MAINTENANCE Below is a listing of various parts and part numbers that are generally required when you undertake general maintenance or a tune-up of your aluminium friend. This is just a partial guide to help you order parts from a local automotive store if you do not wish to go a longer distance for parts (See Section 9 in this FAQ) Because of the age of some of our Land Rovers, and the fact that many have had parts interchanged over their lives, it's difficult to give exact listing for everyone. Yours might be a little different. If in doubt, take the parts with you to the store or bring it with you Tune-Up Day and we will help figure it out. More complete sources for part numbers are available. The Land Rover Factory Parts Manual is the ideal source for information. Check with fellow Land Rover owners. Some of them are fanatics and may have a copy of this tome. Coolant: Four season coolant with rust inhibitors. Flush the system first. If an "O" ring gasket is required, the rear hub seal from a 1961 - 76 Austin Mini makes a good replacement. Thermostat: All models use a 160 degrees Farenheit unit. Parts: Land Rover 74c 532453 82c 596225 Gates 33006 Stant 336-160 Engine Oil: "Tight" engines with less than 50,000 miles: 10w40 "worn" engines with more than 50,000 miles: 20w50 Transmission- 90 EP Hypoid gear oil Differentials: Swivel Ball - 140 EP gear oil Steering: Fairey 50 EP gear oil Overdrive: Fuel filter: Remove and clean glass sediment bowl. If none, replace with an in-line filter between tank and engine/carb. Filters are available at any auto parts store. Same size as fuel line. Hub seals: Front and rear, double lipped seals for all models. Parts: Land Rover National: 410694 U-joints A bad U-joint can ruin the differential and gearbox bearings. Grease if they are of the type that have a grease nipple. Parts: Land Rover 2 15/16" from cap top to cap top RTC3291 3 7/32" from cap top to cap top RTC3346 Precision 1948-62 344 1963-76 369 Spicer 1954-59 5-4x 1969-71 5-153x Oil Filter Parts: Land Rover: 2.0l RTC3183 2.25l RTC3185 (long 6-13/16") RTC3184 (short 4-5/8") 2.6l RTC3183 (6 cylinder) Series I Series II & IIA From suffix "B" no. 25143369-C - Fram CH-853pl - Fram CH-834pl - Wipac OF-671 - Hastings P-186 - Kralinator L-891 - Kralinator L-532 Series II & IIA Series III From suffix "D" no. 27108243D - Fram CH-822pl - Fram CH-834pl - Hastings P-186 - Kralinator L-535 - Kralinator L-532 6 Cylinder - Fram CH-853pl - Wipac OF-671 - Kralinator L-891 ELECTRICS: ALTERNATOR Lucas 37 amp 16ACR Lucas 45 amp LRA 103 COIL Lucas all negative earth HA12 DISTRIBUTOR: The Distributor used on Series II, IIA, and early III Land Rovers is the same as found on the 1960's Austin Mini and numerous other British cars. It is a LUCAS 25D4. In the early-mid 1970's this was changed to the LUCAS 45D4 distributor. The 6 cylinder Land Rover used a Lucas 25D6 distributor. Knowing this, if you can't get your distributor cap for your 1964 Land Rover using the Land Rover part number, just ask for the distributor cap off of a 1968 Austin Mini. It will fit. Points: Lucas 25D4 TK-50 " 45D4 (cs-8) 54423769 Land Rover 2.25l petrol 1956-74 RTC3270 " " Lucas new type (red) RTC364 " " (blue) RTC6627 " " Military 24v FFR RTC6622 " " Duceellier type RTC6625 " " 6 cyl RTC3270 Blue Streak LU-1617XP Borg & Beck A-527 Echlin CS-207a Niehoff WA-106 Delco E-109 Condensor: Lucas 45D4 54429551 Land Rover 2.25l petrol 1956-77 RTC3472 " " Lucas new type RTC6621 " " Military 24v FFR 600730 " " Duceellier type RTC6620 " " 6 cylinder RTC3472 Blue Streak LU-206 Echlin EP-29 Filko 6 cylinder LU-65 Niehoff WA-226 Delco E-211 Rotor: Lucas 25D4 RA-1 " 45D4 54422803 Land Rover 2.25l petrol to -1976 RTC3612 " " Lucas new type RTC3614 " " Military 24v FFR RTC6628 " " Duceellier type RTC4933 " " 6 cyl RTC4542 Blue Streak 4 cylinder LU-300 6 cylinder LU-302 Echlin 4 cylinder EP-41 6 cylinder EP-44 Niehoff 4 cylinder WA-300 6 cylinder WA-313 Delco 4 cylinder E-407 6 cylinder E-302 Cap: Lucas 25D4 DC-6 " 45D4 (dc-8) 54427109 Land Rover 2.25l II, IIA Screw type 600328 " " IIA, III early push-in 566859 " " New type push-in RTC3278 " " Military 24v FFR 90600725 " " Duceellier type RTC4932 " " 6 cyl 539570 Blue Streak 4 cylinder LU-421 6 cylinder LU-429 CEW 4 cylinder 6008302 Echlin 4 cylinder EP-48 6 cylinder EP-55 Niehoff 4 cylinder WA-412 6 cylinder ---- Delco 4 cylinder L-307 6 cylinder L-310 GENERATOR Lucas C-40 Brushes: Lucas BS3-227541 Land Rover RTC3255 GLOW PLUGS Land Rover 568335 Champion AG45 KLG GF210/t SPARK PLUGS Parts: SI SII & IIA SIII 6-cyl from "B" from "D" Land Rover RTC3569 RTC3570 RTC3571 Bosch WR7DS (silver) " WR8DP (platinum) Champion N-5 N-5 N-9Y N-12Y N-5 AC 44XL 44XL 42LXS 44XLS 44XL Autolile 2616 2616 52 3205 2616 - for radio interference supression, get "R" designator STARTER Lucas Ser III petrol M418G " Ser III diesel M45G Land Rover petrol RTC5225E " " diesel RTC5232E SELENOID Lucas Petrol 76766 " Ser IIA diesel 76727E " Ser III diesel 76803 VOLTAGE REGULAT Lucas 4 cylinder w/alt RB340 " 6 cylinder 37565 Ford Tractor 6 cylinder DONN10505A TUNING LAND ROVER 2.25 PETROL ENGINES This is a brief "how to" guide for tuning your 2.25 petrol Land Rover. I hope it is not to vague. It is best to tune an engine when warm. Try to combine the tune)up with an oil change. After a lot of winter starts with the cold start (choke) on, a certain amount of gasoline blows by the piston rings into the crankcase, affecting the oil pressure, lubrication and the way the engine runs in general. So warm it up, change the oil, and then start with the valves. I know the valve cover plate says " Hot or Cold" but always try to adjust them hot (read warm). Follow this sequence: 1 open adjust 8, 2 open adjust 7, 3 open adjust 6, 4 open adjust 5 or visa/versa. Continue until all eight valves are adjusted. Open is when the valve spring appears as compressed as it is going to be. Remember, don't slacken off all the locknuts at once. and only adjust the valves (tappets) that require attention. Tight is, tight enough, on the locknuts. A good trick for the right adjustment is to go tight with the next larger size feeler gauge (0.011 inches). Then run the correct size through. It should feel just right, not loose, but not pinching or sticking. When you have adjusted all the valves then check the valves once again, maybe twice. This is a critical step in tuning your engine so take care and do it properly!!! Next, do a compression check, try to use a screw in type gauge. Disconnect the wire from the switch (SW side of the coil). Record the compression readings as you measure each cylinder. If you get exactly the same readings from each cylinder, great, but unlikely. Usually there will be some variation eg: 147, 150, 142 and 151 lbs. However if three readings are close and one is 100 lbs lower tha the other three, a tune)up is not going to help. Moving to the sparking plugs, (spark plugs). Plugs are relatively cheap, and vital to the performance of your engine. Throw away the old plugs and buy a set of new plugs. (not Crappy Tire's own brand). Use a spark plug gauge with an electrode adjuster and use it to adjust the spark plug gap. Do not assume the gap is correct straight out of the box and do not bang them on the bench or valve cover until you think they look right. Adjust for a 0.030 inch gap. Put a little anti)seize on the threads. and once again, tight is, tight enough. Now have a look at your distributor cap, rotor, spark plug and coil wires. If they don't look perfect, throw them under the front seat and fit new parts. Fit genuine Land Rover parts as there can be a significant difference in quality between original Land Rover and after market parts. Make sure the base plate to which the parts attach rotates freely. If it does not move, do not force it. You might remove it completely from the distributor and make sure the centrifugal weights are not seized and the springs to the distributor cam are intact and attached. The distributor cam should rotate slightly as well. Apply suction or vacuum to the pipe or hose on your vacuum advance to remove any debris. If your points are burned or damaged, don't attempt to file or repair them. Fit new points and set them to 0.015 inches. At the same time change the condenser. Remember genuine Land Rover parts only. Make sure the "pigtail"(the low tension lead and block) is in good condition. If you have a fuel filter (highly recommended) replace it. Clean the sediment bowl on you fuel pump. Make sure it comes off easily enough so you can reassemble it. Do not ignore the air filter. Take it apart and clean . Refill with 20W50 oil to the level mark. Set your timing next, 7:1 engines 6 deg. BTDC, 8:1 engines 0 deg. TDC and 8:1 (emission controlled) 6 deg. ATDC. The best advice I can give you for your carburettor is, if it is not broken don't fix it. Most of us have one of three carburettors fitted, but they all have two main adjustments, idle and mixture. So as long as the throttle shaft is not too warn, proceed. Turn your idle down as low as it will go, 700 to 800 RPM is good. Find the highest, smoothest idle speed with the mixture screw, then readjust the idle with the idle screw to about 800 RPM or until it sounds right, not too fast, remember you have to be able to shift gears. Give the throttle a couple of snaps, if it stalls, increase the idle speed a bit, and you are done, =========================================================================== 7. MAGAZINES AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS Note: All books are available unless otherwise noted below. LRO International c/o Mercury Airfrieght Int. 2323 Randolph Avenue New Jersey 07001 Cost $70 US/year also this address LRO Publications LTD. The Hollies, Botesdale, Diss, Norfolk IP22 1BZ, UK BOOKS: Manuals (Land Rover Ltd.); Land Rover I 1948-58 Land Rover II & IIA, Part 1 (Engine & Gearbox) 1958-70 Land Rover II & IIA, Part 2 1958-70 Land Rover III 1971-85 Land Rover III, V8 supplement Land Rover 101 Forward Control 1975-77 Land Rover 90/110 (including Defender supplement) 1983 on Range Rover 1970-85 Range Rover 1986 on Discovery 1989 on BOOKS: Parts catalogues (Land Rover Ltd.) Land Rover I 1948-53 Land Rover I 1953-58 Land Rover 80" Military Land Rover II 1958-61 Land Rover IIA 1961-71 Land Rover IIA & IIB (Forward Control model) 1962-72 Land Rover III (including V8) 1971-85 Land Rover 101 Forward Control 1975-77 Land Rover IIA & III Optional Equipment 1961-85 Land Rover 110 1983-86 Land Rover 110 1987 Land Rover 90 1984 on Range Rover 1970-85 Range Rover 1986 on Discovery 1989 on BOOKS: Owner's Manuals (Land Rover Ltd.) Land Rover I 80" 1948-53 Land Rover I 1953-58 Land Rover I & II (Die.) 1948-61 Land Rover IIA & IIB 1961-72 Land Rover IIA, 24 volt Land Rover III 1971-81 Land Rover III 1981-85 Land Rover 3/4 Ton (109 12 & 24 volt vehicles) 1971-85 Land Rover 1/2 Ton 1971-85 Land Rover 101 Forward Control 1975-77 Land Rover III 1979-83 Land Rover 90/110 1983 on Range Rover 1970-81 Range Rover by year to 1989 Discovery 1989 on BOOKS: Manuals (various); Guide to Purchase & DIY Restoration: Land Rover Series I, II & III Lindsey Porter, Haynes Publishing Group, 1992 ISBN 0 85429 681 6 Haynes Land-Rover II, IIA & III (petrol) Owners Workshop Manual (314) Haynes Land-Rover II & III (diesel) Owners Workshop Manual (529) Haynes Range Rover Workshop Manual 1970-87 Land Rover 2, 2A, & 3 Owners Workshop Manual, 1958-83 including 6 and 8 cylinder Petrol or Diesel Models Brooklands Land Rover Restoration Tips and Techniques Richard Green, Brooklands - Includes information on refurbishing a SWB Serries III 88 with hundreds of how to's for Land Rover Owners. Dropping a V8, refurbishing a Ninety, gearbox repair, fitting a winch, repairing rear-ends, et cetera. A collection of the articles published in LRO magazine over the years. Practical Classics: Land Rover Restoration Brooklands Series III Lightweight Parts Catalogue Brooklands BOOKS: Other; Advertising Land Rover; Series I & II, 1948-71 Daniel Young, Yesteryear Books - A collection of Land Rover advertisements with attention to the early years. Basically a collection of sales literature and magazine cuttings advertising the Land Rover. British Land Rovers in the Gulf Bob Morrison Brooklands Road Tests: Series One 1948-58 Brooklands Road Tests: Land Rover II and IIA 1958-71 Brooklands Road Tests: Land Rover Series III 1971-85 Brooklands Road Tests: 90/110 1983/89 Choice, Purchase, Performance, I, II, III & V8 James Taylor Classics in Colour: Land Rover; James Taylor - Colour, data and detail on civilian, military and special vehicles from 1948 to 1991. 120+ colour photos with fact sheets on the different variants, Santana's, Lightweights etc. Driving Techniques (out of print) Land Rover Ltd. Publications Exploring Green Roads and Lanes in Great Britain. Ian Thompson, Haynes Publishing Group - A round Britain trip by motorcycles, but mostly suitable for off road vehicles. The Fighting Rovers L. Geary Four Wheel Drive and Land Rover N. Baldwin Know Your Land Rover Robert Ivins The Land Rover Chris Bennet - A book full of pictures of Land Rovers in great detail. A brief history of the Land Rover, variations, modifications by the Special Vehicles Operations Dept, a section on the Camel trophy. The Land Rover 1948-88 Collectors Guide J. Taylor Land-Rover - The Unbeatable 4x4 (3rd ed) K. & K. Slavin & G.Mackie, ISBN 0 85429 721 9 - Traces the history of the LR, including reprints of road tests in 1949. Details on the Special Projects department and records possibly all of the more unusual and odd special projects, military vehicles, a guide to Land Rover expeditions etc. The Off-Road Four-Wheel-Drive Book Jack Jackson, Haynes Publishing Group Petes 1st Book Land Rover Laughs Prototype Land Rover Report Range Rover 1970 - 86 James Taylor Range Rover Collectors Guide series, 2nd edition J. Taylor Range Rover Conversions N. Dimbleby, Haynes Publishing Group Range Rover Gold Portfolio 1970 - 92 Brooklands - Road & comparison tests, buying 2nd hand, new models, turbo diesel, Vogue Autos, Technical data, et cetera Special Service Tools for Land Rover & Range Rover, 54 pages Land Rover Ltd. Publications Winching in Safety Land Rover Ltd. Publications Working in the Wild (Africa Manual) Land Rover Ltd. Publications =========================================================================== 8. LAND ROVER CLUBS The following list includes clubs that do not cater exclusively to Land Rovers. A number of Rover car clubs exist that fill the roll of a single vehicle club, such as Land Rovers. This list is to be considered as accurate for the Winter of 1993. INTERNET While strictly not a club, there exists a mailing-list on the InterNet for Land Rover enthausists to exchange information, answer questions, and help fellow owners, or those who desire to obtain a Land Rover. Address: Send your request to be added to the mailing-list to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com CANADA Ottawa Valley Land Rovers (OVLR) c/o Mike McDermott 1016 Normandy Crescent Ottawa, Ontario, K2C 0L4 CANADA (Canada's oldest and largest Land Rover club) Newfoundland Rover Register c/o Kevin Burton #2 Holden Street Mt. Pearl, Newfoundland Maritime Organisation of Rover Enthusiasts c/o John Cranfield Kingston, Nova Scotia, B0P 1R0 Toronto Rover Club c/o Trevor Easton 124 Central Avenue Grimsley, Ontario L3M 4Z2 CANADA Land Rover Owner's Association of Manitoba Newsletter: Prairie Rovers c/o Scott Sheppard Box 331 Powerview, Manitoba R0E 1P0 CANADA Land Rover Register of Alberta Newsletter: Rover Register c/o Al Sigurdson Box 793 Duncan, British Columbia V9L 3Y5 CANADA Island Rovers c/o Ron Low 2685 Otter Point Road RR. 2, Sooke, British Columbia V0S 1M0 CANADA Rover Car Club of British Columbia c/o Eric Russell PO Box 51555, 911 Park Royal South West Vancouver, BC, V7T 2X9 Series I Club c/o Dave Davey RR. 5, Bracebridge, Ontario P1L 1X3 CANADA UNITED STATES OF AMERICA Land Rover of North America Bay State Rovers Association PO BOX 6836 c/o Jim Pappas OAKLAND CA 94603 USA. P.O. Box 342 Editor - Brad Blevins North Scituate, MA, 02060 2998 Atlantic St Concord, CA 94518 USA Blue Ridge Land ROver Club Dixieland Rovers c/o Mrs. Cheryl Ritchie c/o Steve Johnson P.O. Box 507 Route 3, Box 358 Parkersburg, WV, 26102-0507 Tofton, GA, 31794 Kansas Rover Group Land Rover Club of Chicago c/o James Merriam c/o Scott Strik 337 South Vassar #30, 4358 N. Bell Wichita, Kanas, 67218 Chicago, Ill, 60618 Northwoods Rover Group Pacific Coast Rover Club c/o Bill Osterhein c/o Gordon Perrot 2547 152nd Lane NE 10537 Interlake Avenue North Hamm Lake, MN, 55304 Seattle, WA, 98133 Royal Range Rover Society Rover Owners' Association 409 State Rte 17 S of Michigan Paramus, New Jersey, c/o Eric Russell 07652-2984 5260 Textile Road Saline, Michigan, 48176 Rover Owner's Association of VA Rover Owner & Vehicle c/o Sandy Enthusiast Register 1633 Melrose Parkway P.O. Box 45 Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA Basking Ridge, New Jersey, 07920 Rover Owners' Club Solihull Society 644 Garfield Pl. Box 916 Arroyo Grande, CA, 93420 Monument CO, 80132 Southwest Land Rover Owners' Association 1409 Santa Rosa Drive Santa Fe, NM, 87501 UNITED KINGDOM All these are member clubs of the Association of Rover Clubs Ltd. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The Association of Rover Clubs Ltd. Andrew J. Stavordale, 65 Longmead Avenue, Hazel Grove Stockport. SK7 5PJ. Tel: 061 456 8224. ARC Overseas Liason Officer Fran Luxton, Woodbine Cottage, Lameton, Tavistoke, Devon PL19 8RZ Tel: 0822 610650 International - UK Based ------------------------ 101 Forward Control Club and Register Mr. H. Smith, 13 Gloucester Gardens, Baintree, Essey. GM7 GL6. Tel: 0376 552331 Forward Control Register, IIA and IIIB C. B. Heron, 28 Front Street, Daisy Hill, Sacriston, County Durham. DH7 6BL. Tel: 091 371 2527 Land Rover Register (1947 -- 1951) Richard Lines, 35 Park Road, Yeadon, Leeds. LS19 7EX. Tel: 0532 506546 Land Rover Series One Club. David Bowyer, East Foldhay, Zeal Monachorum, Crediton, Devon. EX17 6DH. Tel: 0363 82666, Business hours Only. Land Rover Series II Club. PO Box 1750, Bridport, Dorset. DT6 5YJ Tel: Land Rover Series III Club Frank King, 16 Holly Street, Cannock, Staffordshire. WS11 2RU Tel: 0543 423326 Lightweight Land Rovers Club. Sue Foster, 31 Slimbridge Close, Breighmet, Bolton. BL2 5NT Tel: 0204 396449 Range Rover Register Ltd. Les Booth, 794 Lower Rainham Road, Rainham, Kent. ME8 7UD. Tel: ---- All Wheel Drive Club. Peter Facey, 134 Sandyhurst Lane, Ashford, Kent. TN25 4NT Tel: 0233 621 507 Ex-Military LR Association. Mark Cook, 50 St Andrew Street, Leighton Buzzard, Beds. LU7 8DS Tel: 0525 372 016 ENGLAND ------- Breckland Land Rover Club Ltd. Wendy Chandler, 8 Acorn Road, North Walsham, Norfolk. NR28 0HA. Tel: 0692 404453 Cheltenham & Cotswolds Land Rover Club Ian Wood, 21 Oldbury Road, Cheltenham Gloucestershire. Tel: 0242 230793 Chiltern Vale Rover Owners Club Colin Argent, 21 Meadow Way, Codicote, Hitchin, Herts. SG4 8YL Tel: 0438 821581 Cornwall & Devon Land Rover Club Jean French, 5 Pinewood Close, Plympton, Plymouth, Devon. PL7 3DW. Tel: 0752 338279 Cumbrian Land Rover Club Peter Antiss, 11 Alder Close, Newton-With-Scales, Preston, Lancs. PR4 3TQ. Tel: 0772 685735 Dorset Land Rover and Range Rover Owners Club. Ruth Cooney, 104 Blackmore Road, Shaftsbury, Dorset. SP7 8RL. Tel: 0747 54377 East Northhants Land rover Owners Club Dave Vaughan, 1 Woodavens Close, Northampton. NN4 9TX. Tel: 0604 763626 Essex Land Rover Club David Bygrave, The Knoll, Bygrave Road, Ashwell, Nr Baldock, Herts. SG7 5RH. Tel: 046 274 2418 (evenings) Hants & Berks Rover Owners Gary Langton, 1 Hillside Court, 16 Solent road, Drayton, Portsmouth, Hants. PO6 1HH. Tel: 0705 388929 Lancashire & Cheshire Rover Owners Club Ian Foster, 31 Slimbridge Close, Breighmet, Bolton. BL2 5NT Tel: 0204 396449 (Note: Same address as the Lighweight Club.) Leicestershire & Rutland Land Rover Club M. J. Smith, 1 Yarwell Drive, Wigston Magna, Leicester. LE89 10F Tel: 0533 881041 Linconshire Land Rover Club Steve Wells, 6 Hall Farin Cottage, Binbrook, Lincon. LN3 6BW Tel: 0472 398019 Midland Rover Owners Club Derek Spooner, Bank Cottage, Abbots Moreton, Worcester. WR7 4NA. Tel: 0386 792767 Newcastle & Nantwitch Rover Owners Club Garry Thompson, 70 Cambridge Drive, Clayton, Newcastle, Staffs. ST5 3DQ. Tel: 0782 617224 North East Rover Owners Club Anne Timmins, North Lodge, Jesmond Dene Road, Jesemond Dene, Newcastle-Upon-Tyne. NE2 2EY. Tel: 091 281 1678 Nottingham Land Rover Club Annie Bentley, 19 Manns leys Cotgrave Nottingham. Tel: 0602 894282 Peak & Dukeries Land Rover Club Alan Reaney, 96 Ridgeway Road, Gleadless, Sheffield. S12 2SY Tel: 0742 655108 Pennine Land Rovers Club Sarah Hampton, Lulworth Cottage, 29 Church Lane, Bardsey Leeds. LS17 9DN. Tel: 0937 572292 Red Rose Land Rover Club B. L. Hart, 75 Coniston Road, Fulwood, Preston, Lancs. PR2 4AY. Tel: 0772 709391 Somerset & Wiltshire Rover Owners Club Elizabeth Green, 2 The Old Schoolhouse, Colford, Frome, Somerset. BA11 4HP. Tel: ---- Southern Rover Owners Club Tracey McCartney, 5 Regents Way, Crook Log, Bexleyheath, Kent. DA6 8BT. Tel: 081 301 5451 Staffordshire & Shropshire Land Rover Club Vanessa Johnson, 4 Waltham House, Overend Street, West Bromwich, West Midlands. B70 6ER. Tel: 021 553 4070 Yorkshire Rover Owners Club David Barker, Rivendell, 2 Huby Banks, North Yorks. LS17 0AH. Tel: 0423 734412 Anglian Rover Owners Club. Dave Thompson, 14 Black Swan Lane, Luton, Beds. LU3 2LU Tel: 0582 507 905 Buxton & District Land Rovers Club. Mrs C. Ollerenshaw, 29 Dale Road, Buxton. SK17 6LN Tel: 0298 71558 East Devon Off Road Club. Peter Broom, Armidale, Fenny Bridges, Honiton. EX14 0BG Tel: 0404 850 960 East Midlands Off Road Club. Martyn Jacques, Woodstock, Gainsborough Road, Winthorpe, Newark, Notts. NG24 2NN Tel: 0636 79421 Fosse & Watling Land Rover Club. Tel: 0455 848 228 or 0455 615 731 Fyfield LRC Mike Sassoon, Broom Hills, Ongar Road, Fyfield, Nr Ongar, Essex, CM5 0RB Tel: Humberside Land Rover Club. Ian Brimble, 37 Oaklands Drive, Hessle, Humberside. HU13 0LT tel: 0482 641 260 Isle of Dogs FWD Club Jon Dunning, 69 Teping Street, Clippers Quay, Isle of Dogs, London, E14 9UT. Tel: 071 515 6453. Isle of Wight 4x4 Club. Mike Penketh, 75 Church Road, Wootton, Isle of Wight. PO33 4PZ Tel: Lee Valley Land Rovers Club. Harry Stalick, 24 Love Lane, Chigwell, Essex. IG8 8BB Tel: 081 504 3873 Midland Off Road Club. Bruce Harris, 34 mayfield Road, Hurst Green, Halesowen. B62 9QW Tel:021 422 9465 Northern Off Road Club. Beverly Bairstew, 14 Ails House, Fairhaven Green, Idle, Bradford, West Yorks. BD10 9ND Tel: 0274 610 405 Northern Lakes 4x4 Club. Geoff Tomlinson, Holme Lea, Quarry Field, Stockdaleworth, Dalston, Carlisle, CA5 7DP Tel: South Downs Land Rover Club David Stevens, 32 Langney Green, Langney, Eastbourn. BN23 6HY. Tel: 0323 460 513 Southern Counties Off Road Club. Jane Dooley, 149 Slepe Crescent, Parkstone, Poole Dorset. BH12 4DL Tel: 0202 734 949 Suffolk 4-Wheel Drive Club. Mrs Maureen Leys, 2 Thelnetham Road, Blo Norton, Diss, Norfolk, IP22 2JQ. Tel: Surrey land Rover Club. David Patey, 110 Stafford Road, Wallington, Surry. SM6 9AY Tel: 081 647 0144 Twin Axel Club. Andrew Stirling, 4 Littleworth Cottages, Etherington Hill, Speldhurst, Kent, TN3 0ND. Tel: 0892 862676 Viking FWD Club. Ian Hamilton, 21 Narston Avenue, South Wigsin, Leics. Tel: 0858 432 345 IRELAND ------- Isle of Man 4WD Club. B. P. Waring, 58 Groudle Road, Onachan, Isle of Man. Tel: 0624 627 826 Northern Ireland FWD Club. Ian Henderson, 12 Abbot View, Newtownards, Co. Down. BT23 3XT Tel: 0247 811 584 (evenings) WALES ----- Mid Wales Four Wheel Drive Club. Carol Tweedle, "llwyn", Harford, Llanwrda, Dyfed. SA19 8DS Tel: North Wales Land Rover Club Dave Cuthbert, 25 Sunningdale Avenue, Colwyn Bay, Clwyd. LL29 6DF. Tel: 0492 534417 West Wales 4x4 Group D. Iwan Jenkins, Rofft, Aberporth Cardigan, Dyfed. SA4 3DF Tel: 0239 810 047 The Wye & Welsh Rover Owners Club Peter Slingerland, Old Bakery, The Square, Ruardean, Glostershire. GL17 9TJ. Tel: 0594 544058 SCOTLAND -------- Scottish Land Rover Owners Club Alan Walker, 77 Albert Avenue, Crosshill, Glasgow. G42 8RA. Tel: 041 423 8671 Ae 4x4 Club. Anne Smith, Closs Cottage, Closs, Boreland-by-Lockerbie, Dumfriesshire. DG11 2LQ Tel: 0576 6291 Buchan Off-Road Drivers' Club. Robert Farquhar, 44 Craigpark Place, Ellon, Aberdeenshire. AB41 9FG Tel: 0358 26668 Highland 4WD Club. Colin Stewart, Main Street, Newtonmore. PH20 1DA Tel: 054 03251 (daytime) Scottish Off Road Club. Bob Webster, 1 Hallyard Farm Cottages, Kirkliston. EH29 9DZ Tel: 031 333 4291 ========================================================================== 9. LAND ROVERS - RESTORED, USED, & PARTS (USA) ---------- Atlantic British Ltd Box 110 Rover Ridge Drive Mechanicville, NY 12118 (800) 533-2210 Orders only (518) 664-6169 Technical questions (518) 664-6641 Fax Free catalog Lots of aftermarket parts Many "oem" parts, but not Land Rover authorized ---------- CARS Camarillo, CA (800) 882-1349 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- The British Northwest Land-Rover Co. 1043 Kaiser Rd. SW Olympia, WA 98502 parts - (206) 866-2254 sales - (206) 866-2381 Bruce Harding writes: "When dealing with these folks you need to verify costs and availabilities over the phone or you may be surprised. Ask if an item is being back ordered or 'special' made." He goes on to say: "After all this happened I sent out a message to the group asking where people purchased their parts and NOBODY replied they used this outfit. I then looked back over my invoice numbers to discover they issue an average of 9 invoices a week over an 8 month period... and several of these were return/backorder invoices of mine. I can't believe they sell many LR's as their prices are extremely high, although their LR's are very nice. I wonder how they stay in business." Lee Fischer says: "I would go to great lengths to get parts/service from any other Rover company that I've dealt with instead of these folks." ---------- D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc. 7 Kendrick Road Wareham, MA 02571 (508) 291-1311 Range Rover and Land Rover parts & accessories - warehouse distributors for Lucas & Girling Jory reports some major problems with this outfit: "absolutely every major component I sourced from DAP failed in some manner... usually incurring greater costs than the original problem..." In particular he had bad experience with road springs and rocker area hardware. ---------- Jim "Scotty" Howett (510) 686-2255 Teriann Wakeman says: "He rebuilds diffs & can also probably send you a number of used parts. And yes I believe he will do a mail order." ---------- Nisonger Victory Gardens, NJ (800) 431-2496 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- Rovers North Box 61 Route 128 Westford, VT 05494 (802) 879-0032 Authorized Land Rover parts supplier Free catalog Restoration program: - Customer must sign up (no cost) - Rovers North tracks your cumulative purchases - When you "cash out", you receive a discount (7% to 20%) on future purchases based on the amount you have purchased up to that point. ---------- Rover's West Eight Parts 4060 Michigan Tucson, AZ 85714 (602) 748-8115 ---------- Roverworks - New York 800-999-6402 Land Rovers available: 1959-1974 Full Restorations, All Components rebuilt Base Model 88 $17,000 109 Regular $19,500 109 Safari $24,000 Used Models (currently importing a wide range of models from the UK. Prices start at $5,000) (prices from 1.3.93) 1967 88 hardtop (VG) $ 8,000 1961 109 Safari $19,000 1967 109 Safari $12,000 Roverworks also sells restoration kits and new and rebuilt parts. ---------- Doug Shipman 503-252-5566 Bruce Harding says that this guy has a lot of used Land Rover parts. He reports that many local people have used his services with good results. LAND ROVERS - PARTS (GREAT BRITAIN)****** ---------- A.E.W Paddock Motors Ltd The Showground The Cliff Matlock Derbyshire DE4 5EW Tel 0629 584499 Fax 0629 584498 ---------- Demon Tweeks Hugmore Lane LLan-y-pwll Wrexham Clwyd United Kingdom LL13 9YE International phone number 44 978 664466 Fax: 44 978 664467 Ross says: "Weber make a complete range of both Weber and non Weber service kits for most makes of carb. Kits include needle valves, diaphragms, gaskets seals, idle screws, springs etc... they do not include new jets however." These kits are available form the above company. They may have Solex rebuild kits. ---------- Famous Four Tattershall Way Fairfield Industrial Estate Louth Lincolnshire LN11 0YA Tel 0507 609444 Fax 0507 609555 ---------- John Craddock Ltd. 70-76 North Street Bridgtown Cannock Staffordshire WS11 3AZ Tel 0543 577207 or 505408 Fax 0543 504818 ---------- Merseyside Land Rover Services Ltd. Bridge Industrial Estate Speke Hall Road Speke (Nr. Airport) Liverpool L24 9HE tel 051 486 8636 fax 051 486 5986 Dixon reported a problem with an order in that they sent him the wrong part (silencer) - but he says that they cleared that up promptly and sent him a new one (by air their cost) and let him keep the other part. "I must admit I am impressed with the prompt service and their willingness to correct a problem. They have my business... " ---------- P.A.Blanchard & Co. Clay Lane Shiptonthorpe York YO4 3RU Tel 0430 872765 Fax 0430 872777 Deal in ex-military spares & vehicles. Careful! may not fit civilian versions ============================================================================= 5.0 TECHNICAL 5.1 What Land Rovers were built. A general overview... Make Drs Cu Eng acceleration Model Year Style Sts Cap. Cnf BHP Lbs 0-50 0-60 Series I 80" 48-54 Basic 2 3 1595 4 50 2594 86" 54-56 " 2 3 1997 4 50 2702 24.9 - 107" 55-58 " 2 3 1997 4 50 3031 107" 55-58 StnWgn 5 1997 4 50 3444 28.9 - 88" 57-58 Basic 2 1997 4 51 2740 109" 57-58 " 2 1997 4 51 1080 Series II 88" 58-61 Basic 2 2286 4 77 2900 88" 58-61 StnWgn 3 2286 4 77 109" 58-61 Basic 2 2286 4 77 3294 109" 58-61 StnWgn 5 2286 4 77 Series IIA 88" 62-71 Basic 2 2286 4 77 2953 88" 62-71 StnWgn 3 2286 4 77 3281 109" 62-71 Basic 2 2286 4 77 3445 109" 62-71 StnWgn 5 2286 4 77 3752 109" 67-80 StnWgn 5 2625 6 83 3459 109" 1t 68-71 2 2625 6 83 3886 109" FC 63-66 2 2286 4 77 4200 Series IIB 110" 67-72 2 2286 4 77 4505 Series III 88" 72-84 Basic 2 2286 4 77 2953 16.8 29.1 88" 72-84 StnWgn 3 2286 4 77 3281 109" 72-85 Basic 2 2286 4 77 3459 109" 72-85 StnWgn 5 2286 4 77 3752 17.0 31.7 109" 1t 72-80 2 2625 6 83 3886 109" V8 79-85 2 3528 V8 135 3396 16.9 27.1 Lightweight 68-84 2 2286 4 77 3210 101" FC 75-78 2 3528 V8 135 4040 ============================================================================= 3. ENGINES & GEARBOXES 3.1 ENGINES There are two engines types available for these cars: - 4 cylinder petrol. This engine is seriously overbuilt (TerriAnn has 300K+ miles on hers). Compression is low so it runs on just about any type of petrol. It has a single downdraft carb, circular intake ports, roller cam, 20 Amp generator. The engine gets about 15 to 18 MPG and runs smoothly under load below 1000RPM. Some 2l engines have a multi-fuel capability whereby the engine can burn a petrol/diesel, or petrol/ kerosene mixture by adjusting the distributor. Some owners manuals state not to burn petrol with an octane rating of under 63 in the engine for performance reasons. The most common variety of this engine is the 2.25l version. Engines with smaller capacities were used in earlier, read Series I and II vehicles. These engines include the 1.6l and 2.0l engines. Later Land Rovers use both the 3.5l V8, and higher capacity derivatives, and the 2.5l engine. The later is a stroked 2.25l engine. Specifications: - Petrol Engines: 1595cc Vehicles used on : Series I (1948 - 51) 4-cylinder : 69.5 x 105mm 1595cc compression ratio : 6.8:1 carburettor : Solex horsepower : 50bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm maximum torque : 80 lb ft at 2,000 rpm - this is an overhead valve, side-exhaust, bypass filtered Rover car engine. 1997cc Vehicles used on : Series I (80" model, 1952 - 54) " (86" model, 1954 - 56) " (107" model, 1955 - 58) " (88" model, 1957 - 58) " (109" model, 1957 - 58) 4-cylinder : 77.8 x 105mm 1997cc compression ratio : 6.8:1 carburettor : Solex horsepower : 52bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm maximum torque : 101 lb ft at 1,500 rpm - This engine again uses a bypass filter arrangement, with the 1.6l engine bored out to 2l. Spacing between the 1 & 2 and 3 & 4 cylinders is down to 1/4" which becomes a problem later in engine life. The original 2l engine was only used from Sept. 1952 to 1954 and the introduction of the 86". In 1954 the full flow 2l engine was introduced, modified baearings but still suffered from the 1/4 spacing between cylinders. In 1956 the spacing was corrected with "staggered bores" where the spacing was increased to 3/8". Problems with the 1.6l and 2l include camshaft problems with the followers wearing prematurely, exhaust valves that didn't last too long, head gaskets are prone to blowing, and a rear main "thrower" system on the back of the crankshaft, that after a lot of off-road use, could lead to oil getting into the clutch, or a lot of wading could lead to the crank pulling water into the engine. This last problem was solved on the later 2l engines which could keep oil in and water out. 2286cc Vehicles used on : Series II (88" model, 1958 - 61) " (109" model, 1958 - 61) Series IIA (88" model, 1961 - 71) " (109" model, 1961 - 71) 4-cylinder : 90.47 x 88.9mm 2286cc compression ratio : 7.0:1 carburettor : Solex horsepower : 70bhp (net) at 4,250 rpm maximum torque : 124 lb ft at 2,500 rpm - This engine includes modifications of a stronger water crankshaft, altered water pump position (because of cylinder head cooling problems) and modified water pump and thermostat housings. This engine was so successful, that it was used up until 1984. In 1980 a 5-bearing version of this engine was introduced. In 1967 the Solex carburettor was replaced by the Zenith. Problems: The early 2.25l engines has a cooling problem that resulted in cracked heads and suffered from crankshaft knock. Later 2.25l engines solved this problem. 2286cc Vehicles used on : Series III (88" model, 1971 - 85) Series IIIB (109" model, 1971 - 85) 4-cylinder : 90.47 x 88.9mm 2286cc compression ratio : 8.0:1 carburettor : Zenith horsepower : 70bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm maximum torque : 120 lb ft at 1,500 rpm - From 1980 the engine has a five main bearing crankshaft. 2625cc Vehicles used on : Series IIA (109" models, 1967 - 71) : Series III (109" models, 1971 - 85) 6-cylinder : 77.8 x 92.1mm 2625cc compression ratio : 7.8:1 carburettor : SU horsepower : 83bhp (net) at 4,500 rpm maximum torque : 128 lb ft at 1,500 rpm - In 1971 the carburettor was changed from the SU to a Zenith Stromberg. The changed statistics are as follows: horsepower : 86bhp (net) at 4,500 rpm maximum torque : 132 lb ft at 1,500 rpm - This is a detuned Rover 110 car engine with modified water pump and different carburettor for the Land Rover. This is an excellent engine for towing, and was a smooth running engine. However... - Problems: Same as the early 1.6l and 2l engines where it ate a lot of exhaust valves and suffered the additional problem of the long aluminium head corroding or warping. 3528cc Vehicles used on : Defender (90" models, 1985 - ) : 110 (110" models, 1983 - ) 8-cylinder : 90.47 x 71.1mm 3528cc compression ratio : 8.1:1 carburettor : 2 x Zenith-Stromberg horsepower : 91bhp (net) at 3,500 rpm maximum torque : 166 lb ft at 2,000 rpm - This fourth engine variety is very rare in North America on pre-1974 vehicles as the owner had to undertake the conversion. The Rover aluminium block 3.5 litre V8 engine combination is common in the UK. Kits are available from the UK for those willing to undertake the conversion process. (The 3.5l engine was also used in the TR-8 among other BL & Rover vehicles, or in other words, the TVR, Morgan +8, TR-8 are all powered with Land Rover engines) - Diesel Engines: 2052cc Vehicle used on : Series I (88 & 109 models, 1957 - 58) : Series II (88 & 109 models, 1957 - 58) : Series II (109" model, 1958-61) 4-cylinder : 85.79 x 88.9mm 2052cc compression ratio : 22.5:1 carburettor : CAV fuel injection horsepower : 51bhp (net) at 3,500 rpm maximum torque : 87 lb ft at 2,000 rpm 2286cc Vehicle used on : Series IIA (88 & 109" models, 1962 - 71) : Series IIB (110" Forward Control) : Series III (88 & 109" models, 1971 - 85) 4-cylinder : 90.47 x 88.9mm 2286cc compression ratio: 23.0:1 carburettor : CAV fuel injection horsepower : 62bhp (net) at 4,000 rpm maximum torque : 103 lb ft at 1,800 rpm - This is the 2.25l petrol engine with different material crankshaft, different pistons, larger con rods etc. From 1980 this engine has a five main bearing crankshaft. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3.2 GEARBOXES: There are basically 3 versions of gearboxes (transmissions). The series I & II, IIA and Series III. The Land Rover gearbox remained basically unchanged from 1948 until 1970. The Series I gearbox had few problems because of the low power of the 1.6 or 2l engines, and the relative light weight of the Land Rover itself. The common faults were the engagement dogs on second gear (no synchromesh here), chipped first gear on the lay shafts and a broken main shaft. These are all the fault of poor driving or overloading. In 1958 the extra power of the 2.25l engine made these problems worse. This Series II gearbox had the same innards as the Series I but had a modified housing for the change in engine specification. The gearbox specification was changed in 1961 with the introduction of the Series IIA. The main gearbox had a beefed up lay shaft and a front bearing as well as a repositioned reverse gear idler (these used to break sometimes). The idler pin on the gearbox was also enlarged. This gearbox could even cope with the 6 cylinder engine without problem. In 1971 an all new gearbox was introduced with the Series III. Basic differences were that this had a larger diaphragm clutch (Note: this larger clutch plate and diaphragm will fit on the older Series IIA bell housing) and the 4 speed synchromesh. This gearbox needs to be treated sensibly. The massive baulk ring assembly does not like to be rushed and can cause problems if it is. This gearbox is not considered to be as strong as the Series IIA gearbox as people tend to be rough on them be trying to power shift. 3.3 INTERCHANGABILITY With money, anything is interchangeable, however, Land Rover owners are generally not know for the free-flowing wallet that other British cars owners generally practice. The parts outlined below are interchangeable with a minimum of effort and cash. Engines: All four cylinder engines are interchangeable, but there are two types of bell housing stud patterns. The earlier engines, the 1.6/2.0l and 2.6l 6-cylinder use one pattern, while the rest of the four cylinder engines use another. As a result, the four cylinder petrol and diesel engines are completely interchangeable, though remember to bring along all of the linkages, wiring, et cetera. Engine mounting points on the block are common as well as the depth from the mounting points to the rear of the block. Fitting larger capacity 2.25l engines in the 80" and 86" Land Rovers requires you to either move the radiator forward so that it clears the fan blades, ot the you dispense with the engine mounted fan and put in an electric fan in front of the radiator. The 6-cylinder engine is six inches longer than a 4-cylinder engine, and will only fit in a 4-cylinder chassis with modification to the crossmember and bulkhead. The 3.5l V8 requires an adapter plate to mate with the standard Land Rover gearbox, and some jigging with the engine mounts. Kits to undertake this conversion are available from England. Gearboxes: All gearboxes are interchangeable, though there are two types of bell housing stud patterns. The early pattern was used on the 1.6l and 2.0l engines. Swap the bell housings to fit the engine and gearboxes together. The later bell housing started in 1958 with the diesle engine, and is still used on current turbo diesel Ninety Defenders and Discoverys. There are two types of clutch mechanisms used. The earlier was used for the Series I through Series IIA, while the later started with the Series III. The former is a more complicated system with external linkages, while the later uses a simple arm within the bell housing. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:25:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: FAQ, part 2 From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:53:46 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO LAND ROVER FAQ PART 2 last modified: July 22, 1993 archive site: /pub/sol/landrover.faq @ triumph.cs.utah.edu (99k) Edited by: Dixon Kenner (OVLR) Contributors: Ted Rose (OVLR) (Gen'l Maint) Ian Stuart (UK Clubs) Greg Hiner < > (Suppliers) Original file: /pub/sol/landrover.ascii @ triumph.cs.utah.edu (13k) by Teriann Wakeman Introduction: This FAQ is primarily concerned with Land Rovers built between 1948 and 1984 (The end of the Series III). While there may seem to be emphasis placed on North American Land Rovers, this is due to information available at the time of writing. Any additional information, or corrections, are welcome. dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca ============================================================================= 5. SPECIFICATIONS 88 109 Basic S.Wagon Basic S.Wagon -------- -------- ----- ------- Overall length 142.375" 142.375" 175" 175" Overall width 66" 66" 66" 66" Overall unladen height, 77.5" (hood up) Overall unladen height 68" (hood down, windscreen up) Overall unladen height, 57.5" (hood down, windscreen down) Overall unladen height, 76.875" 77.875" 81" 81.375" (with cab or hard top) Wheelbase 88" 88" 109" 109" Track 51.5" 51.5" 51.5" 51.5" Turning circle 38' 38' 47' 47' Unladen ground clearence 8" 8" under differential (6x16" tyres) Unladen ground clearence 8.75" 8.75" under differential (7x16" tyres) Unladen ground clearence 9.75" 9.75" under differential (7.5x16" tyres) Weight, running with water, oil & five gallons of fuel PETROL 2,953 3,281 3,301 3,752 (pounds) DIESEL 3,097 3,435 3,471 3,922 Max. approved payload (street) persons 2 7 2 10 & pounds 1,000 100 2,000 400 Max. approved payload (off-rd) persons 2 7 2 10 & pounds 1,000 100 2,000 400 Max. drawbar pull PETROL 4,000 4,000 3,500 3,500 DIESEL 3,300 3,300 2,900 2,900 Internal body dimensions Length (between cappings) 43" 72.75" Width (between cappings) 56.875" 72.75" Depth 19.5" 19" Height of wheel arch 8.5" 9" Width of wheel arch to body side 13.75" 13.75" Width of floor (between wheel arch) 36.25" 36.25" Height (floor to roof maximum) 48.5" 48.5" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ CAPACITIES: (2.25l engine) Normal units US units Metric units (litres) ------------ --------- ------------ Engine sump oil 4 cylinder 11 pints 13 pints 6 6 cylinder 12 pints 14 pints 6.25 Extra when refilling after 3 pints 3.5 pints 1.75 fitting with new filter 4 cyl. 1.5 pints 1.8 pints 0.85 (Late models) 2.25 pints 2.75 pints 1.5 Extra when refilling after 1 pint 1.2 pints 0.5 fitting with new filter 6 cyl. Air cleaner, 4 cylinder 1.5 pints 1.8 pints 0.85 Air cleaner, 6 cylinder 1 pints 1.2 pints 0.5 Main gearbox oil 2.5 pints 3 pints 1.5 Transfer box oil 4.5 pints 5.5 pints 2.5 Rear diff (basic) 3 pints 3.5 pints 1.75 Front diff (basic) 3 pints 3.5 pints 1.75 Rear diff (ENV) 2.125 pints 2.5 pints 1.2 Front diff (ENV) 2.625 pints 3.1 pints 1.4 Rear diff (limited slip) 3 pints 3.5 pints 1.75 Swivel pin housing 1 pint 1.2 pints 0.5 Fuel tank (88") 10 gallons 12 pints 45 Fuel tank (109") 16 gallons 19 pints 73 Cooling system Petrol 18 pints 21.5 pints 10.25 Cooling system, Diesel 17.5 pints 21 pints 10 Cooling system, 6-cylinder 'long' 20 pints 24 pints 11.2 ========================================================================== 6. CHASSIS NUMBERING 6.1 WHERE IS YOUR CHASSIS/SERIAL NUMBER? 80 inch models: The chassis number can be found on the nearside engine mounting and on the brass plate on the nearside of the bulkhead. Later vehicles had the plate positioned inside the cab. 86 & 107 models: The chassis number can be found on the bulkhead inside the vehicle and on the right hand front spring hanger. 88 & 109 models: The chassis number can be found on the bulkhead inside the vehicle and on the right hand front spring hanger. 6.2 SYNOPSIS OF CHASSIS/SERIAL NUMBERING SCHEME 1948 - 1949 Prefixed by an L or R indicating left or right-hand drive, were six or seven digits. The first digit indicated the year: 8 = 1948-49 The second digit indicates the type: 6 = Land Rover The third digit (applicable only to seven digit numbers) indicates the model type: 6 = Basic 7 = Station Wagon 8 = Welder With the exception of the 866 series, whose serial numbers started at 3001, the last four digits show the serial number starting at 0001. 1950 - 1953 Prefixed by a L or R, indicating left or right-hand drive, only on the 1950 models, were eight digits. The first digit indicates the year where: 0 = 1950 1 = 1951 2 = 1952 3 = 1953 The second digit indicates the type: 6 = Land Rover The third digit indicates the model type: 1 = Basic 2 = Station Wagon 3 = Welder 6 = completely knocked down CKD The fourth digit, excluding 1950 models, indicates the destination: 0 = Home market 3 = LHD Export 6 = RHD Export With the exception of the 1950 models with five digits, the remaining four digits start at 0001 and indicate the serial number. 1954 - 1955 An eight digit numbering system The first digit indicates the year where: 4 = 1954 5 = 1955 The second digit indicates the type: 7 = Land Rover The third digit indicates the model type: 1 = 86 inch 2 = 107 inch 6 = 86 inch completely knocked down CKD 7 = 86 inch completely knocked down CKD The fourth digit indicates the destination: 0 = Home market 1 = Home market 3 = LHD export 4 = LHD export 6 = RHD export 7 = RHD export The remaining four digits start at 0001 and indicate the serial number. 1955 A nine digit digit numbering system The first digit indicates the type: 1 = Land Rover The second digit indicates the model: 7 = Land Rover The third digit indicates the destination: 0 = Home market 3 = LHD export 4 = LHD CKD 6 = RHD export 7 = RHD CKD The fourth digit indicates service period: 6 = late 1955 for service The remaining five digits start at 00001 and indicate the serial number. 1956 - 1961 A nine digit numbering system. The first digit on all models = 1 The second and third digits are in pairs in the following sequence indicating: 11-35 = Series I models 41-71 = Series II models The fourth digit indicates the year: 6 = 1956 7 = 1957 8 = 1958 9 = 1959 0 = 1960 1 = 1961 The remaining five digits starting with 00001 indicate the serial number. 1962 - 1979 An eight digit chassis numbering system with suffix letters The first, second, and third digits indicate the model and specification. 241-354 = Series IIA 901-965 = Series III The remaining five digits starting with 00001 indicate the serial number. The suffix letter indicates design modifications. Note: The year, or model-year of manufacture have no identification number. 1980 - Date All these years use the conventional Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) Digits Denoting Combinations 1,2,3 manufacturer SA = British Leyland L = Land Rover Ltd. 4,5 model LB = Series III LD = 90 & 110 6 wheelbase A = 88" H = 110" C = 109" M = Special D = 109" 1 ton V = 90" 7 body type A = All models except B = 2dr Station Wagon H = High Capacity pick-up M = 4dr Station Wagon 8 engine C = 2.5l diesel D = 2.5l petrol G = 2.25l diesel H = 2.25l petrol P = 2.6l petrol V = 3.5l petrol 9 steering/trans 1 = RHD 4 speed 7 = RHD 5 speed 2 = LHD 4 speed 8 = LHD 5 speed 10 model variant A = all models except: B = Series III Country SW 110 'faclift' 11 assembly location A = Solihull F = CKD 12-17 serial number 6.3 CHASSIS/SERIAL NUMBERS AS DENOTED IN FACTORY MANUALS 1948 - 1949 Basic 1948-49 Home RHD R860001 Export LHD L860001 Export RHD - Station Wagon Home RHD R8670001 Export LHD L8670001 Export RHD R8670001 Welder Home RHD R8680001 Export LHD L8680001 Export RHD R8680001 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1950 - 1953 Basic 1950 1951 1952 1953 Home RHD R06100001 16100001 26100001 36100001 Export LHD L06100001 16130001 26130001 36130001 Export RHD R06100001 16160001 26160001 36160001 Station Wagon Home RHD R06200001 16200001 Export LHD L06200001 16230001 Export RHD R06200001 16260001 Welder Home RHD R06300001 16300001 26300001 36300001 Export LHD L06300001 16330001 26330001 36330001 Export RHD R06300001 16360001 26360001 36360001 CKD Basic LHD R06100001 16630001 26630001 36630001 RHD L06100001 16660001 26660001 36660001 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1954 - 1955 86 inch model Basic 1954 1955 Home RHD 47100001 57100001 57110001 170600001 Export LHD 47130001 57130001 57140001 173600001 Export RHD 471600001 57160001 57170001 176600001 Station Wagon: No special numbering sequence CKD Basic LHD 47130001 57630001 174600001 RHD 47660001 57660001 177600001 107 inch model Basic 1954 1955 Home RHD 47210001 57200001 57210001 270600001 Export LHD 47230001 57230001 57240001 273600001 Export RHD 47260001 57260001 57270001 276600001 CKD Basic LHD 47730001 57730001 274600001 RHD 47760001 57760001 277600001 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1955 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1956 - 1961 SERIES I 88 inch models Petrol 1957 1958 Home RHD 111700001 111800001 Export RHD 112700001 112800001 CKD RHD 113700001 113800001 Export LHD 114700001 114800001 CKD LHD 115700001 115800001 Diesel Home RHD 116700001 116800001 Export RHD 117700001 117800001 CKD RHD 118700001 118800001 Export LHD 119700001 119800001 CKD LHD 120700001 120800001 109 inch models Petrol Home RHD 121700001 121800001 Export RHD 122700001 122800001 CKD RHD 123700001 123800001 Export LHD 124700001 124800001 CKD LHD 125700001 125800001 Diesel Home RHD 126700001 126800001 Export RHD 127700001 127800001 CKD RHD 128700001 128800001 Export LHD 129700001 129800001 CKD LHD 130700001 130800001 SERIES II 88 inch models Petrol 1958 1959 1960 1961 Home RHD 141800001 141900001 141000001 141100001 Export RHD 142800001 142900001 142000001 142100001 CKD RHD 143800001 143900001 143000001 143100001 Export LHD 144800001 144900001 144000001 144100001 CKD LHD 145800001 145900001 145000001 145100001 Diesel Home RHD 146800001 146900001 146000001 146100001 Export RHD 147800001 147900001 147000001 147100001 CKD RHD 148800001 148900001 148000001 148100001 Export LHD 149800001 149900001 149000001 149100001 CKD LHD 150800001 150900001 150000001 150100001 109 inch models Petrol Home RHD 151800001 151900001 151000001 151100001 Export RHD 152800001 152900001 152000001 152100001 CKD RHD 153800001 153900001 153000001 153100001 Export LHD 154800001 154900001 154000001 154100001 CKD LHD 155800001 155900001 155000001 155100001 Diesel Home RHD 156800001 156900001 156000001 156100001 Export RHD 157800001 157900001 157000001 157100001 CKD RHD 158800001 158900001 158000001 158100001 Export LHD 159800001 159900001 159000001 159100001 CKD LHD 160800001 160900001 160000001 160100001 109 inch Station Wagon models Petrol Home RHD - 161900001 161000001 161100001 Export RHD - 162900001 162000001 162100001 CKD RHD - 163900001 163000001 163100001 Export LHD - 164900001 164000001 164100001 CKD LHD - 165900001 165000001 165100001 Diesel Home RHD - 166900001 166000001 166100001 Export RHD - 167900001 167000001 167100001 CKD RHD - 168900001 168000001 168100001 Export LHD - 169900001 169000001 169100001 CKD LHD - 170900001 170000001 170100001 ---------------------------------------------------------- 1962 - 1979 SERIES IIA 88" incl 88" StnWgn StnWgn post - 109" 109" Petrol pre-010365 March 1 65 StnWgn Home RHD 24100001A 31500001B 25100001A 26100001A Export RHD 24200001A 31600001B 25200001A 26200001A CKD RHD 24300001A 31700001B 25300001A 26300001A Export LHD 24400001A 31800001B 25400001A 26400001A CKD LHD 24500001A 31900001B 25500001A 26500001A Diesel Home RHD 27100001A 32000001B 27600001A 28100001A Export RHD 27200001A 32100001B 27700001A 28200001A CKD RHD 27300001A 32200001B 27800001A 28300001A Export LHD 27400001A 32300001B 27900001A 28400001A CKD LHD 27500001A 32400001B 28000001A 28500001A 88" Station Wagon (NADA four cylinder) 524400001A 109" Station Wagon (NADA six cylinder) 34300001A 109" 109" 109" 109" 6 cylinder 6 cylinder 1-ton 1-ton Petrol Basic Stn Wgn 4 cylinder 6 cylinder Home RHD 34500001D 35000001D 24600001A 26600001A Export RHD 34600001D 35100001D 24700001A 26700001A CKD RHD 34700001D 35200001D 24800001A 26800001A Export LHD 34800001D 35300001D 24900001A 26900001A CKD LHD 34900001D 35400001D 25000001A 27000001A 88" 109" 109" 109" light- air- Fwd Ctrl Fwd Ctrl Petrol weight portable 4 cylinder 6 cylinder Home RHD 23600001A 31000001A 28600001A 30100001A Export RHD 28700001A 30200001A CKD RHD 28800001A 30300001A Export LHD 23900001A 28900001A 30400001A CKD LHD 29000001A 30500001A 6.4 CHASSIS/SERIAL NUMBERS IN NUMERIC SEQUENCE Serial Number Year Whlbase Type Engine Market LHD/RHD 23600001A 68-71 88 Lghtwght Petrol Miltry RHD 23900001A 68-71 88 Lghtwght Petrol Miltry LHD 24100001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Petrol Home RHD 24200001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Petrol Export RHD 24300001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Petrol CKD RHD 24400001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Petrol Export LHD 24500001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Petrol CKD LHD 24600001A 68-71 109 1-ton Petrol Home RHD 24700001A 68-71 109 1-ton Petrol Export RHD 24800001A 68-71 109 1-ton Petrol CKD RHD 24900001A 68-71 109 1-ton Petrol Export LHD 25000001A 68-71 109 1-ton Petrol CKD LHD 25100001A 62-71 109 Basic Petrol Home RHD 25200001A 62-71 109 Basic Petrol Export RHD 25300001A 62-71 109 Basic Petrol CKD RHD 25400001A 62-71 109 Basic Petrol Export LHD 25500001A 62-71 109 Basic Petrol CKD LHD 26100001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Petrol Home RHD 26200001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Petrol Export RHD 26300001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Petrol CKD RHD 26400001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Petrol Export LHD 26500001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Petrol CKD LHD 26600001A 68-71 109 1-ton 6-cylin Home RHD 26700001A 68-71 109 1-ton 6-cylin Export RHD 26800001A 68-71 109 1-ton 6-cylin CKD RHD 26900001A 68-71 109 1-ton 6-cylin Export LHD 27000001A 68-71 109 1-ton 6-cylin CKD LHD 27100001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Diesel Home RHD 27200001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Diesel Export RHD 27300001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Diesel CKD RHD 27400001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Diesel Export LHD 27500001A 62-71 88 Basic/SW Diesel CKD LHD 27600001A 62-71 109 Basic Diesel Home RHD 27700001A 62-71 109 Basic Diesel Export RHD 27800001A 62-71 109 Basic Diesel CKD RHD 27900001A 62-71 109 Basic Diesel Export LHD 28000001A 62-71 109 Basic Diesel CKD LHD 28100001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Diesel Home RHD 28200001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Diesel Export RHD 28300001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Diesel CKD RHD 28400001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Diesel Export LHD 28500001A 62-71 109 Stn Wgn Diesel CKD LHD 28600001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl Petrol Home RHD 28700001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl Petrol Export RHD 28800001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl Petrol CKD RHD 28900001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl Petrol Export LHD 29000001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl Petrol CKD LHD 30100001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl 6-cylin Home RHD 30200001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl 6-cylin Export RHD 30300001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl 6-cylin CKD RHD 30400001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl 6-cylin Export LHD 30500001A 63-66 109 Fwd Ctrl 6-cylin CKD LHD 31000001A 109 Air Port Petrol Miltry RHD 31500001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Petrol Home RHD Post 010365 31600001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Petrol Export RHD " " 31700001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Petrol CKD RHD " " 31800001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Petrol Export LHD " " 31900001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Petrol CKD LHD " " 32000001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Diesel Home RHD " " 32100001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Diesel Export RHD " " 32200001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Diesel CKD RHD " " 32300001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Diesel Export LHD " " 32400001B 65-71 88 Stn Wgn Diesel CKD LHD " " 34300001A 68-71 109 NADA SW 6-cylin Export LHD Canada/USA only 34500001D 61-71 109 Basic 6-cylin Home RHD 34600001D 61-71 109 Basic 6-cylin Export RHD 34700001D 61-71 109 Basic 6-cylin CKD RHD 34800001D 61-71 109 Basic 6-cylin Export LHD 34900001D 61-71 109 Basic 6-cylin CKD LHD 35000001D 61-71 109 Stn Wgn 6-cylin Home RHD 35100001D 61-71 109 Stn Wgn 6-cylin Export RHD 35200001D 61-71 109 Stn Wgn 6-cylin CKD RHD 35300001D 61-71 109 Stn Wgn 6-cylin Export LHD 35400001D 61-71 109 Stn Wgn 6-cylin CKD LHD 524400001A 62-71 88 NADA SW Petrol Export LHD Canada/USA only ======================================================================== Date: Thu, 9 Jan 92 15:42:34 -0500 From: archer@hsi86.hsi.com (Garry Archer) To: british-cars%hoosier.utah.edu@uunet.uu.net Subject: Re: Land Rovers I dunno, I must be a puritan or somethin', but I wince and cringe whenever I read and hear folks refer to Land Rovers as "cars", "trucks" or "Rovers". They're Land Rovers!!!!!!!!!! There is no other classification for them :-) Me dad drove Land Rovers for decades until he retired in 1990 (they belonged to his firm but he always brought them home for personal use). Funnily enough, he said he would never buy one himself, "They're too expensive to maintain", he said. The firm always kept them in tip-top condition so they were always being maintained and me Dad must have been privy to the cost. Where I lived in England there were a lot of quarries. Me dad worked down most of those quarries (huh, so *that's* why his job title was Quarry Manager...) The quarries produced high quality clay for the area's refractories. I digress. So I've seen the Land Rover in its element -- in all elements! -- in fact I've seen them in all positions including rolling over down some quarries! Usually they make the steepest inclines though (where them darn bulldozers thought that only they could go!). Fortune (in the form of me Dad) blessed me with the opportunity to drive a Land Rover (several of them). One doesn't need to go fast in a Land Rover (some have mentioned their "low" top speed). One just goes and goes. Of all vehicles I have ever driven, I have had the most fun driving a Land Rover (Archer stop that grinning, you're still at work...) One of these days, when I'm Rich And Famous I'll have meself a Land Rover parked right next to me Aston Martins (I can't decide on just *one*!). Garry Archer Esq. {yale, uunet}!hsi!archer -OR- archer@hsi.com 3M Health Information Systems, Wallingford, Connecticut, U.S.A. "An Englishman never enjoys himself, except for a noble purpose." - A.P.Herbert ========================================================================== 1. There was a swb that hit a full grown moose a couple of years ago. The moose was killed on impact, damage to the swb was caved in front wings and the radiator being driven against the fan. Pulling the radiator forward allowed the swb to proceed. The State Police could not believe it. Photos can be found in an old Rovers North newsletter. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:19:40 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Comments, corrections, flames, etc on the FAQ From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:54:48 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Please send comments, corrections, additions, anything really that is of interest about Land Rovers to: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca for inclusion in the Frequently Asked Questions for Land Rovers. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:18:04 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 19:50:02 -0400 From: UUCP-Dixon Kenner Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 21:40:32 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 22:30:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: LRO MAGAZINE To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Sorry for loading you mailboxes with yet more mail, but don't you think it's kind of funny when you get seven messages from the same person? This isn't the first time that it has happened...maybe condense some more, or bring in the clips to one message... It's really loading up the mailboxes and getting out of control...... Thanx in advance, Steve Swiger swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 00:50:28 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Club (Y/N) and newsgroup vs. mail list Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 22:46:46 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I've been reading this thread about us becoming a club and have come to a decision. At every event that I go to, I'm going to post a sign on my windshield that says: lro@team.net ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu There are a few things that could happen: 1)Any of you that are out there will know that I'm part of the mailing list. And there will be no need for fancy names, or t-shirts or the like. 2)people who don't know about the mailing list will ask and we may get more people to join our discussion. On the topic of newsgroup vs. mailing list I have a few thoughts. While I was a school I extensively read newsgroups and got a lot of information out of them, but you had to learn how to filter the signal from the noise. Sitting here tonight I realized the difference in my philosophy between the two. When I get mail from a mailing list, such as this one, a read every single message that comes in. I regard this list and the people on it to be a group of friends sitting around discussing a common topic. Newsgroups for the most part consist of posts from total strangers. I have no incentive to think that every post will be interesting or useful, so I only read the threads that I find interesting. The end result is that I read at most 10% of the message traffic and more likely than not I read less than 1% of the message traffic. For me an extreme example of this is rec.arts.written.sf.babylon5 which is a discussion group about the TV show Babylon 5. The newsgroup easily has 200 to 500 mesasges a day. The only signal that I have found in the noise is that of J. M. Straczyski who is the executive producer and writer of the show. I prefer to keep this list like all of us were sitting around the fire shooting the breeze than a crouded auditorium. But this is just my $0.02 Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover SIII 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 01:06:53 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Sat, 03 Sep 1994 02:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Mid Atlantic Rally To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"CXKS46A@prodigy.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Sandy sez... > > Has anyone replaced a headlight with a halogen sealed beam? I'm still > running with *original* (i.e., 22 yr old) Lucas bulbs that, according to > one of the Ottawa crew, serve more to warn on coming motorists than > actually illuminate the right of way. Even with a pair of 150w driving > lamps for off-road, I could still use a bit more that the feeble brown > light of the Lucas'. A year or so ago, I went to the auto parts store and > bought a set of Phillips "7 inch" halogen headlights, but these would no > fit the 7 inch bezel of the Rover. Suggestions? > The Prince of Darkness strikes again! I don't know Sandy, I have GE halogen headlamps in my Ser III. And at one time or another I've had to put something other than Lucas in the Spitfire and thats a 1964. The headlamp mounting is the same on the Rover as on the Triumph (at least on mine, anyway). Can't understand why you would have any trouble with it. As to the Lucas lights, I've been using Lucas headlamps in the Spit for 15 years (except when one blows out and I don't have a spare). They actually do a fair job, but maybe it's because the lights are closer to the ground than on the Rover and the light doesn't have to travel so far?? ;-} Like my tee-shirt says.. LUCAS. A hard days work and home before Dark. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 01:08:20 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Sat, 03 Sep 1994 02:01:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"brabyn@skivs.ski.org" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Things must be differant where John is so he writes... > > I agree especially about the bullbars -- I have never seen them to be useful > for anything but appearance. The same applies to the ridiculous headlight > and taillight protectors sold as accessories -- the chances are you then have > > to > to pay for new "protectors" AND new taillights if they get hit. Also, has > anyone tried working oin an engine in a bullbar equipped vehicle -- I would > think it would entail a lot of leaning over and reaching. > I don't know John.. If a bull bar was constructed properly it *would* actually protect the bodywork from heavy brush and small trees. Doesn't sound much like "tread lightly" now but there are times when you have no choice but to go through the stuff. Some of the good ole boys in the local 4x4 club have some damm nice home-built bull bars on thier trucks. These boys are strictly "tread lightly" and a real good crowd to run with when you can't find any Land Rover folks about. I really don't think that the bull bars and assorted lamp guards are there to prevent damage if you get hit.. Most of that is your job, right? As far as leaning and reaching goes.. I'm 5'10" and have to do an awful amount of leaning and reaching to work on anything in my SerIII. Sometimes I even throw the spare on the ground and stand on that. Maybe you're a lot taller or your RR is a lot shorter. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 01:35:06 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 23:31:51 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Potential LRO? Status: RO My sister is heading back to Rhode Island for her last semester of horse school, and after getting a taste of off-highway driving on the way out to CA this spring, would like to do more. Are there any LRO's near Providence, RI who would be willing to take a college kid along on an outing? (She's actually 21 and quite mature, but she'll always be one of "the kids" to me.) Thanks in advance... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 02:16:35 1994 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 09:13:32 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Sender: S|ren Vels Christensen Reply-To: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Newsgroup opinion.. (No, please) To: Andy Woodward Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 2 Sep 1994, Andy Woodward wrote: > > HAH!!!!! I thought lorry owners were individualists. "I am not a number. I am > a free man." > And, as i can see, you have a good taste in music too. The kind of music that one can hear over the noise in a landie. (Not to start a thread!). yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 03:19:19 1994 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 10:17:31 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: UNIMOG FOR SALE To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 2 Sep 1994, maloney wrote: > Sefan writes: > > >> > ...because suddenly we hear a deafening roar behind us somewhere, and there > comes this UNIMOG "ActionMobil" expedition rig sort of thing tearing across > the premises, its stacks blowin' thick black like it was the Rubber Duck out > of "Convoy", flinging mud, grass & cowchips all over the place, enters the > muddy part and... skids out of control, flattens a (fortunately empty) VW > Jetta parked alongside the entry, crashes through the fence sideways, skids > across the street and continues backwards into an orchard where it collects a > few young apple trees in its path... > >> > > You too can indulge in Unimog Madness as there is one for sale on RT 1 in > Hampton, New Hampshire, USA. It's military green, has an open load bed and a > rather tattered canvas top. The price was $5000 the last time I looked, but > if you're serious about it you could offer a bit less because it's been there > at least 6 years (I havn't the slightest idea of what these things go for). > It must run because I have seen it in different positions over the course of a > couple of days. On close inspection the vehicle is not that extraordinary. > Solid axles, leaf springs, and no special diff attachments. Maybe it's not a > UNIMOG after all but it does have the same cab shape, wheel style, and it is a > Mercedes. Before going to the bank and converting the landie to loan security, please note that an old MOG is a VERY special vehicle (not car). We have had MOG's for many years in Her Majesty's Armed Forces (The Queen's got hundreds of cars, but only uses the Bentley and the XJ6, -never a MOG). I've been riding in an UNIMOG. It only goes 70km/h and its even more noisy than a diesel landie. The front wheels are where the footwells should have been. The springs are harder than rusty overaged LR springs. On a bumby surface, the rocking chair effect is more distinct than in an 88'' because your are sitting high. Like buying the first LR, drive it as much as possible before signing the check. If you like it and money is no object get an MAN 6x6, and roll the LR on the back of it and take off into the wilderness. When the forest gets dense, roll of the landie and go on. > Personally, it's not my cup of tea as LRs are what get's my blood going. LR is superior when it comes to providing that pi**-boiling feeling when i drive my battered veteran of the mud wars saying "i can go where you can't mr. Mercedes and Lacoste and Ray-Ban". BTW we used to have landies in the defense but switched to Mercedes GD. And the airbase firechiefs use Toy Landcrushers. Utterly incomprehensible. > FWIW > > Bill > > maloney@wings.attmail.com > > Wayne, NJ USA yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 03:50:39 1994 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 10:45:39 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Halogen Beams (Re: Mid Atlantic Rally) To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.01210750.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 2 Sep 1994, MR ALEXANDER P GRICE wrote: >... > Has anyone replaced a headlight with a halogen sealed beam? I'm still > running with *original* (i.e., 22 yr old) Lucas bulbs that, according to > one of the Ottawa crew, serve more to warn on coming motorists than > actually illuminate the right of way. Even with a pair of 150w driving > lamps for off-road, I could still use a bit more that the feeble brown > light of the Lucas'. A year or so ago, I went to the auto parts store and > bought a set of Phillips "7 inch" halogen headlights, but these would no > fit the 7 inch bezel of the Rover. Suggestions? > > *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* > | | > | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | > | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | > | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | > | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | > *------------------------------------------------------* Sandy I use Hella R2000 kettledrums for beamers. They are mounted on the front skirt in the radiator pit, with a steel band through the grille to stabilise. They not only provide sufficient beams, - they also give Lawrence a more "pioneer"-like look. If you want to keep an original LR, get an extra skirt to keep. They are still available and cheap. yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 04:20:57 1994 Date: Sat, 3 Sep 1994 11:19:23 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Query on L/R product development / Safety research To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9409021700.AA16714@skivs.ski.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have seen the word "afterthought" mentioned in connection with LR safety, both here on the list and in various other places. It is worth to keep in mind that LR was a professional work vehicle made for agricultural/forestry/military etc environnements. It has only been a lifestyle vehicle for a few years. And therefore, applying safety _devices_ is a fairly new thing. Until about the mid eighties, the far most LR's were registered with public/private organisations and with farmers, vets etc. When ordinary people looks at SUV's, they will of course look at nippers as well. And many of those are just sedan's with bigger wheels and an extra diff. "Airbag" is the selling label these days, and LR would of course like to gain and keep market shares. NOT claiming that market interests is the only reason for LR research into safety!. yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 07:59:20 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sat, 03 Sep 94 08:55:36 EDT Subject: Re: Unimog Madness, USA Status: RO Bill writes >>>You too can indulge in Unimog Madness as there is one for sale on RT 1 in >>>Hampton, New Hampshire, USA. I haven't seen it recently, perhaps it was sold and is out and about squishing Jettas in this country. :-) Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 08:03:58 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sat, 03 Sep 94 09:00:28 EDT Subject: Names List/LRO Club Status: RO As long as I am going to moderate the name vote I don't mind moderating another. Should we vote on whether we want to become a club? The consensus seems to be: Club - No Name - Yes Once again, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 am, when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 @ 6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post final results no later than Wed, Sept. 14 e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to use the internet mail address 1.) Land Rover Owners Club 2.) Rover nets 3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway 4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) 5.) RoversNet or NetRovers 6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection 7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network 8.) Rovers in the Ether 9.) Roving through the Ether... 10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. 11.) low-box net surfers 12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International 13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway 14.) Raving Rovers! 15.) The Net Rovers 16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn 17.) LROC of the Internet 18.) The Wired Rovers 19.) Space Rovers 20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers 21.) LROC of the Internet 22.) CyberLand Rovers 23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) 24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) 25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) 26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club 27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } 28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or 29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? 30 ) Car List Rejects 31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 08:03:06 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sat, 03 Sep 94 09:00:55 EDT Subject: Newsgroups Status: RO I agree with Ben Smith, I don't have regular access to newsgroups, but from what I've seen the signal/noise ratio is unacceptable. I, like Ben, read every message I receive from my fellow LROers, I save many that I think will be of help in the future. I don't want to have to filter anything out, and to this point I haven't seen anything that IMHO needed to be filtered. Secondly, anything other than a mail list will be unavailable to those of us who get our internet from places like compuserve and aol. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 3 23:50:17 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rovers and charging rhinos... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 03 Sep 94 22:57:40 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Something that has been discussed before here... I was going through some old issues of the ALROC magazine Transfer Box and came across a small reprint of a Land Rover advert. from the early mid 1060's. In the advert they state that the Land Rover was designed to withstand a charging rhino. Another issue has another advert stating the same thing, the photo showing a 109 Station Wagon in the background, a bull rhino in the foreground. I have not seen reference to fixing them with any simple tools yet. The first ad ran in 1965 (shows a 109 Station Wagon in the photo), there is no date on the second. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 4 03:21:30 1994 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 10:19:31 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Constable L. Rover To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I turned the TV on this morning and switched to CNN. There was a report from Northern Ireland showing (among other things) an armoured one-ten used by, i think, UDR. It's very similar to the grey ones used by the constabulary. Looked quite heavy. This is the type of vehicle i would like for commuting. NOBODY will shoot in front of it and hit the brakes to get an advantage at the intersection. I wonder what kind of engine it has. Does any of you brits know anything? yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 4 13:22:23 1994 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 94 14:11:44 EDT From: "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" To: lro@stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rovers and charging rhinos... Status: RO > I was going through some old issues of the ALROC magazine > Transfer Box and came across a small reprint of a Land Rover > advert. from the early mid 1060's. In the advert they state > that the Land Rover was designed to withstand a charging > rhino. But not the Norman Invasion? Sorry, couldn't resist... monty From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:16:01 1994 Date: Sun, 04 Sep 94 18:43:22 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Req: Info on Capstan PTO Winch To: land-rover-owner@Team.Net Status: RO Hi, I promise this is my last post including winch questions, but I went through some very tricky terrain today and was wishing for that winch on the front around every bend. Someone mentioned a Capstan PTO winch on a previous request and I wondered if anyone could give me more info on it. Distributor/ Price info would be most helpful. Thanks as always!! -Rgds, Joseph '67 ser IIa 88"...."Sidney" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 4 15:02:01 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Constable L. Rover To: velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk (S|ren Vels Christensen) Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 12:49:50 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "S|ren Vels Christensen" at Sep 4, 94 10:19:31 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2183 Status: RO Soren "Lawrence of Arabia" Vels writes: < I turned the TV on this morning and switched to CNN. There was a report from < Northern Ireland showing (among other things) an armoured one-ten used by, i < think, UDR. < It's very similar to the grey ones used by the constabulary. Looked quite < heavy. This is the type of vehicle i would like for commuting. NOBODY will < shoot in front of it and hit the brakes to get an advantage at the < intersection. Personally I think LRs lose a bit of their glamour when armoured. I'd rather have one of those sexy Fox or Ferret scout cars for commuting. Seriously, though, LRs went through several stages of armoured development for use in Northern Ireland. The Army originally brought in Ser IIs with Vehicle Protection Kits (VPK). The first armoured LRs used by the RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary) were Ser III, known as Hotspurs. In the mid 1980s, based on 15 years experience with add-on VPKs, the Army introduced the purpose-designed LR Armoured Patrol Vehicle (APV). The RUC gradually replaced its Hotspurs with 110 APVs known as the Tangi. In the late 1980s, the "definitive" APV LR, known as the Simba, was introduced. The RUC B-Specials force was discredited by their performance in the sectarian violence of 1969. They were replaced by the local part-time Army Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR). The UDR also had credibility problems since the minority Catholics were soon weeded out by intimidation. In 1992 the UDR was merged into the regular Royal Irish Rangers, and the whole new unit re-styled Royal Irish Regiment. If the IRA unilateral cease-fire really catches on, the former UDR battalions of the RIR will most likely be disbanded. The UDR had over 400 Land Rovers, most of them VPKs (but some APVs). Of course, other regular Army units on rotation in Ulster service are also equipped with APVs. Engines? I don't know, but I would guess there were no special modifications to the VPKs. Robin and the Anglo-Canadian gang probably can say a lot more about that. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 4 14:17:07 1994 Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 13:55:04 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Constable L. Rover To: S|ren Vels Christensen Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On the question of oil pressure drop when you brake hard. I have a rebuilt 88 with 2000 miles on it. The pressure spring and ball were replaced and the seat was honed. At idle it runs about 60 lbs and at 50 MPH about 60 lbs. The gauge is very accurate and the machine burns no oil. All specs were plastigauged and are within factory. When I stop suddenly with the oil at the H level on the stick, I get about a 10 lb. drop in pressure. If I have the oil at the L level on the stick, it will go almost to "0" on the gauge but I don't hear any valve noise nor does the light come on. I have had 8 Land Rovers and they all perform about the same way with good engines. In short I don't think there is anything to worry about. Land Rover says the H mark is for heavy driving while the L is OK for light driving etc. Of course the Min. level is just that. By the way, I have installed vaccuum gauges on all my vehicles, and in this Land Rover I run 20" of Hg. at idle. I also use an electric fuel pump to save a little HP and it is quieter. I have used a diesel crank in this block because it is stronger, and for those who have older machines and are having problems finding bearings to fit the crank with the tab on the proper side, you can easily modify your block with a dremmel tool to accept the shells with the tab on the "wrong" side. I have also modified my engine to take the deeper thermostat housing on the older head. It seems to cool better. I used the longer oil filler tube used on late IIA and III engines and of course to use a different head I used the engine chain cover meant for the deeper head. My next modification will be to use an electric fan in place of the regulation one and not only will I put in the thermostat for the fan, but I will install a bypass switch so when in deep water, I can turn the fan off so as not to splash my engine. I have just finished installing diamond plate on the front bumper between the bumper and the trim panel so my winch will have a "bed" rather than sitting on the bumper as it were. I run 6 lights on the front. Two in the wings Ser III style and two in the rad frame Ser II style as well as two driving beams behind the winch on the trim plate. Don't do this unless you install an alternator or your battery isn't going to like it one bit. :) :) Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 4 16:01:21 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: club functions/lro mail volume To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Sun, 4 Sep 1994 14:58:34 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199409030546.AA281421206@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> from "Benjamin Allan Smith" at Sep 2, 94 10:46:46 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1373 Status: RO I rather like Benjamin Smith's idea: < At every event that I go to, I'm going to < post a sign on my windshield that says: < < lro@team.net < ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu I would suggest that this is the sort of function the club could take on. (I am in another net group that has developed such an esprit de corps that it is having t-shirts made.) Rather than having permanent club officers (other than listowner Bill, who does a great job), special projects would require ad hoc committees. To produce an autosticker with club name and net address would require a coordinator to solicit designs and manage the production and distribution logistics, etc., and a panel of judges to choose the best design on behalf of the group. A slightly related topic: As message traffic increases in this group, I am for the first time deleting some without reading them. I read less than 10% of some other groups. Since many people read selectively, the SUBJECT LINE becomes all important. A word to the wise: if you want the right people to read your message, be sure that the subject line really describes your message (rather than being left over from an unrelated thread). That's another 2 cents. (I think I've spent 4 now.) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:47 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rovers and charging rhinos... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 04 Sep 94 23:18:33 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" writes: > > > I was going through some old issues of the ALROC magazine > > Transfer Box and came across a small reprint of a Land Rover > > advert. from the early mid 1060's. In the advert they state > > that the Land Rover was designed to withstand a charging > > rhino. > > But not the Norman Invasion? Sorry, couldn't resist... Nope. Harold was worried about problems with the wildlife, troublesome people up in the north, and figured that William and his friends (forerunners of the Volvo conglomerate since they were Viking decendents and not French) was just blowing hot air. (Much like ads for Renault and Peugeot) Of course, there were the very early editions that featured wooden wheels and generaly were underpowered, being rated at one horsepower. They did have very good off-road capabilities, but the basic design had not really changed since Bodecia made use of them, successfully for a time, against the forerunners of the Fiat conglomerate. Rgds, Dixon (So much for trying to get around explaining a typo... :-)) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:56 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@Team.Net Subject: Weekend jaunt/clutch woes Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Sun, 04 Sep 1994 21:31:27 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO Well Bill Maloney and I had an interesting Saturday of offroading. It was mostly up and then down steep hills of loose rock and bedrock. A few times I couldn't believe we actually wound our way though the larger boulders without damaging our Rovers. Once we got up near the top we found some flatter and mudholes. At about this time some locals showed up with a pair of Land Cruisers, ATVs and a tricked out pickup. They invited us to join them. I had just seen one of the Land Cruisers negotiate a ~30 foot long mud hole/puddle and they challenged me to try it. Pride goeth before a fall. I figured that if the Land Cruiser could do it, then my Rover could. Bill was much wiser than me and didn't try it. I went in, got all four wheel in and came to a stop leaning to the port side. Both wheels on the left side were completely submerged. And I had no traction. I got out and noticed that the springs and differential had dragged on the slope into the puddle. To make a long story short Bill pulled me out, but not until my engine died and refused to start. Lessons learned: 1)never accept a challenge from a local when in unfamiliar territory. 2)never go offroading without the winch controller. (I would have been out in <5 minutes instead of the 20 to 30 it took) The rest of the day went ok until the end. To get into and out of this area required fording a stream that was about a foot deep, about 40 feet across and had a rocky bottom. We took some pictures fording the stream. I was last to cross and decided to keep going up stream. The engine died for some unexplained reason 6 feet from where I was to come out. I got pulled out again. The worst part of all of this, is that I drive home and all was ok. When I went out to use the Rover this morning, the clutch and the flywheel would not separate. It feels like this clutch master cylinder is doing something, but if I turn the ignition with the clutch down and the tranny in gear the starter moves the Rover. If I put it in neutral and start it, I grind trying to get into gear (with the clutch down). Any ideas out there? Any "Fixes" without pulling the tranny? Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:53 1994 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 00:31:02 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Land Rovers and charging rhinos... To: "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9409041810.AA16240@easynet.crl.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO If you really want to see a good movie with lots of Land Rovers, watch Delta Force II. There is a scene where a 109 hits a jeep at high speed and doesn't look like it even dinted the Rover but the Jeep was toast. Lots of action and the good guys win. :) Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:55 1994 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 00:36:56 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Req: Info on Capstan PTO Winch To: Joseph Broach Cc: land-rover-owner@Team.Net In-Reply-To: <199409042250.SAA13027@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The capstan is not a great winch. Some of the boys up here had them and took them off. The only make sense if you want to carry 100 feet of heavy 1" rope on your vehicle. You have to get out and wrap the rope around a bollard type top like on a ship. You control the feed with the pressure you apply to the rope allowing the rope to slip or bite in. There is a sheer pin in the drive from the bull nose pulley that will let go long before you pull a really stuck Rover out of dust. Save you money and buy a drum winch. There was a capstan winch for sale up here for the longest time at about $100 and no one would touch it. It is great for the restoration nuts but not practicle. Try a good 12 volt golf cart motor on a drum or better still a diesel starting motor or big aircraft type with a drum and you will be a lot happier. Lots of Land Rover books show the winch so it isn't hard to see what they look like. No North American vehicle I know of ever came with one because they are next to useless unless it is for pulling out your boat etc. Dave VE4PN On Sun, 4 Sep 1994, Joseph Broach wrote: > Hi, > > I promise this is my last post including winch questions, but I went > through some very tricky terrain today and was wishing for that winch on the > front around every bend. Someone mentioned a Capstan PTO winch on a previous > request and I wondered if anyone could give me more info on it. Distributor/ > Price info would be most helpful. Thanks as always!! > > -Rgds, > Joseph '67 ser IIa 88"...."Sidney" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:50 1994 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 00:55:29 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Req: Info on Capstan PTO Winch To: Joseph Broach Cc: land-rover-owner@Team.Net In-Reply-To: <199409042250.SAA13027@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I hope I won't get flamed for this question but in 1970s I used to kayak a lot in Western Canada using my Ser I. I found a kayak called a Folbot built from plans that fit the roof just right. I need a set of plans to build another one of them so I can introduce my son to Land Roving in the mountains with light boats. Can anyone sell, copy, trade etc a set of these plans. They were plywood frame and Nugahyde (sp) covered. For anyone else who like this sort of boating, I found that with a safari roof rack I could get it up on the rack single handed by walking on the bonnet and it seemed the right length for a short 88 unlike lots of "normal" boats. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:46 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Land Rovers and charging Boadiceas To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 01:34:41 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "dixon kenner" at Sep 4, 94 11:18:33 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 570 Status: RO Dixon writes: < good off-road capabilities, but the basic design had not really < changed since Bodecia made use of them, successfully for a time, < against the forerunners of the Fiat conglomerate. Has anybody seen or used Bog Cogs which bolt on to wheels? They look as though they were inspired by Boadicea's chariot wheels. No, I take that back; they look more like her upper body armour. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:49 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Ben's sticking clutch To: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 17:25:14 +0930 (CST) Cc: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1902 Status: RO Ben went out to play and now writes: Well Bill Maloney and I had an interesting Saturday of offroading. ..............Snip Snip Snip.......... When I went out to use the Rover this morning, the clutch and the flywheel would not separate. It feels like this clutch master cylinder is doing something, but if I turn the ignition with the clutch down and the tranny in gear the starter moves the Rover. If I put it in neutral and start it, I grind trying to get into gear (with the clutch down). Any ideas out there? Any "Fixes" without pulling the tranny? Ah The old stuck clutch syndrome. Didnt fit the wading plug did we :-) (Dont worry I never bother to either) Ben, the pressure plate has probably rusted to the flywheel. parked hot and damp this happens rather quickly. If it was _me_ in this position (again) I would put my foot on the clutch, start the beast in gear and once under way blip the throttle, (Ok flatten it then lift right off Very quickly) I think second gear works better than first but I havent done this for a while :-) (Hey Kids dont try this at home we're trained professionals !!!!!) The idea is to spin the clutch off of the flywheel, you will probably need to be brutal it is not desirable to use anough force to snap half shafts though. Once it does come free deliberately slip the clutch a bit to "polish" off the crud. This is obviously brutal and has the potential for damage so its your decision. Be aware that if the 2 offending pieces stay stuck for too long you will be looking at a new clutch kit plus a machined flywheel. This can happen if you live in a Humid tropical envt. and dont drive your rover for six weeks too :-( There are other possible causes for "stuck clutch" but IMHO this is the first and most likely option to consider Best of luck -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:59 1994 Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety To: lro@Team.Net Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 9:27:12 NZT From: Hugh Grierson Content-Length: 466 Content-Type: text In-Reply-To: <9409021706.AA16939@skivs.ski.org>; from "John Brabyn" at Sep 2, 94 10:06 am Status: RO > I agree especially about the bullbars -- I have never seen them to be useful > for anything but appearance. Subject to taste I guess. I've decided that they spoil the fine lines of the IIA and pulled them off last summer. Especially with the hard top off it looks a lot more balanced without the bullbars. They make a good coat rack in my garage. [Sorry if you get too many copies of this John, my, er, my mailer is playing up. Yeah, that's it, my mailer.] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:44 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 10:43:49 UNDEFINED Status: RO /Safety.I have heard an eminent accident inspector say that the best /safety device in his opinion would be a bloody great spike fixed to /the centre of the steering wheel pointing at the driver.I must say /I agree with him.The most dangerous thing about a lot of vehicles /is IMO,the driver.Surrounded with "fail safe" devices he regards /himself as immortal.Only too often he realises this is a fallacy /far too late.I'm just grateful my crumple zones are other peoples. My view is that the compulsory seatbelt law was completely cocked up. Since it was introduced, car injuries have gone down but injuries/fatalities of all othewr road users from being hit by cars has gone up to more than compensate. Also crrash sp[eeds have increased. The ideal would have maded it compulsory for passengers in a car to wear seatbelts but to have PROHIBITED tha driver from doing so. So it becomes moerr obvious to him that ihs life is on the line from his own mistakes. /As for Bull Bars,well, personally I dont rate 'em.I fail to see /the advantage in driving around with a field gate bolted to my Bull bars are an admission of crap driving. They say 'I crash into the back of things'. You need the Bullbars on teh BACK of teh vehicle to guard against rear shunts by folk drivning while asleep. /front bumper.Hit something and it bends back causing far more /damage to its parent vehicle than if it wasnt there in the first /place.HOWEVER,isnt it about time that pedestrains were told to In a moderate collision that would bend a body panel or two, with a bullbar, it strains the chassis. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:14:28 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: HOW DO I GET OFF DIGEST MODE????????? Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 10:45:51 UNDEFINED Status: RO I mailed Majordomo for help, but it didnt tell me............... How do I get back to getting alll the messages individually. Not being able to read by threads is driviing me berserk - I just dont have the time to read the digests. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:57 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Help!!! To: lro@Team.Net Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 10:27:34 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO HELP!!!!!!!! I am not sure if my mailer is working properly, as I upgraded the HP here at work on Friday night, and I have not recieved any mail from the list since. I was expecting to find stacks of mail this morning, as I was not at work on friday, but to my distress, I had no mail from the list, only some mail from Jeff Berg, about the images I asked for a while ago. Am I going insane?????? I also managed to tow start my diesel on the weekend, but it is way out of tune, and you could not see past the bonnet for all the white smoke (Unburnt diesel) that was coming from the exhaust. So I tuned it Sunday, and it blew less smoke, way less smoke, but I could not keep it running. It looks like the person that rebuilt the motor, did not quite put the timing gear in, in the right position, so does any-one out there have any experiance at fiddling with the timing gear? Extreamly anxiously waiting any reply or mail from the list what so ever!!!! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 13:12:53 1994 Date: 05 Sep 94 14:06:45 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Subject: The yellow knob Status: RO This is a dumb question for someone who has owned his Series III 88 for 22 years but here goes anyway. While moving in any gear but especially 4th gear at 50 mph can you engage 4WD by pushing in the clutch and pushing down on the yellow knob? I have always changed into 4WD at a stop for fear of damaging something. Also generally needing 4WD has never been a surprise and stopping first has not been a problem. Second question What is a NADA. I have seen several references to a NADA Land Rover and have not a clue what it is. I have been lurking recently as my Land Rover is still in the shop under going a major restoration (the first in its 22 years) it was still running well but I felt it was time for a restoration to ensure continued reliability. In the entire time I have owned it it has never broken down. Not something I can say about anyother car I have owned!! Thanks Keith Steele 72' Series III since new 75126,1123@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 13:48:17 1994 To: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: The yellow knob In-Reply-To: Your message of "05 Sep 1994 14:06:45 EDT." <940905180645_75126.1123_FHD73-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: Mon, 05 Sep 1994 11:44:07 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Keith, NADA stands for North American Dollar Area, and refers to a model of 109 that was imported to the US in I think 1967. It had a special 6 cyl engine peculiar to that model only, of which only about 500 were built. As you can imagine, parts for this NADA engine are just about impossible to get. Steve Dennis in New York, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, is fortunate enough to own on of these rare birds among his many 109's. I have always done as you do when changing to 4WD, that is stop. But I don't think it's needed, although I would hesitate to do it at 50 mph. I however, often changed out of 4 low to 2 high while moving as much as 15-20 mph with no apparent damage or nasty grinding gear noises. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 Defender 90 (formerly a 72 Ser lll) 61 Ser ll 109 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 11:15:51 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Help & Land Rover Club To: lro@Team.Net Date: Mon, 5 Sep 94 16:17:00 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi all, I am back on the list now, but I have missed the last couple of days mail!!!!!!! Has there been any talk about making the list into a Land Rover club, and if so could any one mail me what has been written, as I have kept everything on the subject thus far! and would like to get all correspondence on the matter, no-matter how stupid or idiodic the mail was, so If some one could reply I would be eternally thankfull. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 20:24:04 1994 Date: Mon, 5 Sep 1994 20:16:06 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Land Rovers and charging Boadiceas To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199409050734.BAA23909@mercury.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have not used them but I have a Camel Trophy tape where they were used for "a few minutes" as it were and taken off. They didn't work because the 2 1/4 for one thing just couldn't turn them when stuck in mud. From the film, it looks like a good sounding idea that just doesn't work. Maybe someone has actually tried them and will report. I seemed to recall that the tire fitted vehicles did better. Dave VE4PN On Mon, 5 Sep 1994, T.F. Mills wrote: > Dixon writes: > > < good off-road capabilities, but the basic design had not really > < changed since Bodecia made use of them, successfully for a time, > < against the forerunners of the Fiat conglomerate. > > Has anybody seen or used Bog Cogs which bolt on to wheels? They look > as though they were inspired by Boadicea's chariot wheels. No, I take > that back; they look more like her upper body armour. > > > > T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu > University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 20:27:08 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Mon, 05 Sep 1994 20:21:58 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Disco roof racks To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net X-Vms-To: IN%"Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO When Land Rover went to Central America, all the Discos had huge roof racks (does anyone know if these are the so-called "expedition racks"?) and some of them were called upon to carry those carved stone idol replicas, which surely weighed more than 250 lbs. Whoever asked about such racks (8/30 digest ) might ask Land Rover. I would also be interested in knowing where to get one, if you find out. Henry Wilson 94 Disco 59 Austin Healey 100-6 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 5 20:46:16 1994 Date: 05 Sep 94 21:39:51 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Clutch woes Status: RO On 04 Sep 1994 Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > ...snip...snip... > was ok. When I went out to use the Rover this morning, the > clutch and the flywheel would not separate. It feels like this > clutch master cylinder is doing something, but if I turn the > ignition with the clutch down and the tranny in gear the starter > moves the Rover. If I put it in neutral and start it, I grind > ...snip... Looks like your clutch plate is rusted onto the flywheel; couldn't happen to me, always plenty of oil coming in through the rear crankshaft seal. That's what you get for having a 'dry' engine on a Rover, see? Anyway, to get it off: Take off the interior front housing of the gearbox ("gearbox diaphragm panel" is the proper denomination) to gain access to the upper part of the bell housing. There you will find a small metal plate the form of a lying capital "D" fixed by two screws. Take it off and you will find a hole giving access to the interior of the bell housing. Press the clutch pedal and spray some light, thin rust solvent oil into the housing, aiming high and well to the front of the clutch. Try not to smother the clutch too much. *Don't* use MO-oil, as this will ruin your clutch plate and give you plenty of 'shudder' lateron. In the meantime put the car onto a straight and flat peace of road, preferably with a slight descent. After a few minutes, release the handbrake,put in 2nd gear *low ratio* and start the engine with the clutch released, i.e. don't have your foot on the clutch pedal. Someone pushing from behind would help. The starter will begin moving the car and start the engine at the same time. As soon an the engine is running, drive ahead at a moderate speed until the engines runs smooth. Now *press* the clutch all the way down and start playing with the trottle, making the car to jump and jerk (don't overdo it though!). The clutch should come loose with a loud *bang*. I must warn you that the clutch _might_ get damaged by this process, but if it does the gearbox will have to come off anyway. If it survives this treatment - and it usually does - you've saved yourself a lot of work. Afterwards, spray the inside of the bell housing (again through the little hole) liberally with brake cleaner to clear out as much of the rust solvent oil as possible. Reassemble. Just a short bit of advice for the next time you head into unknown murky depths, - plug the bottom opening of the bell housing with the appropriate screw before submersion (not forgetting to *un*plug it afterwards!), and/or - 'burn' the clutch plate dry afterwards by deliberately riding it for a while (again, not overdoing it). Take care, Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@compuserve.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 00:00:46 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 00:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Weekend jaunt/clutch woes To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Ben goes Swimming with Bill.... > Well Bill Maloney and I had an interesting Saturday of snip-snipity-snip > to join them. I had just seen one of the Land Cruisers negotiate > a ~30 foot long mud hole/puddle and they challenged me to try it. snipy-snip > The rest of the day went ok until the end. To get into and > out of this area required fording a stream that was about a foot > deep, about 40 feet across and had a rocky bottom. We took some rip-tear > was ok. When I went out to use the Rover this morning, the > clutch and the flywheel would not separate. It feels like this RUSTED CLUTCH!!!! Sounds like it might have gotten a bit *damp*.. Got your drain plug in?? You can probably break it loose by starting it in gear with your foot on the clutch. If you have a starter button, you may be able to just bump the starter a few times (with the ignigtion off) and get it to break loose. Had this happen to the Triumph once (no, I didn't take it swimming!) over one winter. Went to start it in the spring and had the same problem. Was a real pain in the arse but it did break loose. A bit of advise that someone in the old car hobby gave me was to use a block of wood to depress the clutch pedal when you store the car, the idea being to give things a chance to dry out. I've never actually done this, having a hydraulic clutch and all, but it might be something to try for a few hours after taking the Rover through deep water. Then again, maybe not. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 07:10:02 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 06:23:14 EDT Subject: Names List Final Status: RO for the last time, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 am, when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 @ 6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post final results no later than Wed, Sept. 14 e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to use the internet mail address 1.) Land Rover Owners Club 2.) Rover nets 3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway 4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) 5.) RoversNet 6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection 7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network 8.) Rovers in the Ether 9.) Roving through the Ether... 10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. 11.) low-box net surfers 12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International 13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway 14.) Raving Rovers! 15.) The Net Rovers 16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn 17.) LROC of the Internet 18.) The Wired Rovers 19.) Space Rovers 20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers 21.) LROC of the Internet 22.) CyberLand Rovers 23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) 24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) 25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) 26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club 27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } 28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or 29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? 30 ) Car List Rejects 31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 08:07:40 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Weekend jaunt/clutch woes To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 9:00:02 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409050431.AA123609491@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>; from "Benjamin Allan Smith" at Septh 04, 94 9:31 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO snip- > The worst part of all of this, is that I drive home and all > was ok. When I went out to use the Rover this morning, the > clutch and the flywheel would not separate. It feels like this > clutch master cylinder is doing something, but if I turn the > ignition with the clutch down and the tranny in gear the starter > moves the Rover. If I put it in neutral and start it, I grind > trying to get into gear (with the clutch down). Any ideas out > there? Any "Fixes" without pulling the tranny? > > Benjamin Smith > ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Gee, good thing I had plans this past weekend..... I agree with Mike's rusted clutch diagnosis, but have managed to free frozen clutches using a different technique that won't bash away at the starter motor (nor the teeth on your flywheel). What you need first and foremost is a dirt road with "washboards" all over it (I live on one so this part is easy for me). Get yer rover started (hopefully you can get it pointed downhill, use the starter and abuse it only this once-and you might as well keep the clutch in while you do cause it might just free up-and have it preferably in 2nd gear). While driving in search of washboards pump da hell outa yer clutch and vary your speed, accellerating as fast as you can with the clutch in. Any bumps or hills you can locate should help free it up. Come to think of it, you should probably be in 4WD while you do this, just so's to minimize the chances of snapping a half axle.....and probably low range at that. Note that you *might* be able to shift gears (but don't try 2WD to 4WDlow, or visa-versa) using your key switch to drop the revs just enought to shift. This method has successfully freed a frozen clutch on our farm rig after sitting through many a cold winter season. Good luck with it. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 08:48:54 1994 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 09:38:49 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Ben & Bill's Excellent Adventure To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO This past Saturday Ben Smith and I decided to visit the site of the old Nazi Bund Camp in Pompton Lakes, NJ. I had heard about it growing up but hadn't been able to pinpoint the location until just recently. The camp was one of a number set up by the Germans sometime in the 30s as recuitment/ intelligence gathering/pre-invasion force locations. They were rounded up in '38 or '39 from what I have been told. I don't know what their fate was after that. After a short drive to the entrance to the area we pulled off the road next to a wide stream and engaged our hubs. Second low and into the stream. It was about 50 feet wide at that point and bumper deep - we were pushing nice bow waves. A short rocky climb up the opposite bank and we were out. We continued on to a clearing where a Jeep, a Land Cruiser, and several ATV's were parked. All were drinking and having a good time but were friendly enough. We looked up the main trail up the mountain. Suddenly I was beginning to feel that this wasn't such a good idea after all. It was really steep. The fellow in the Land Cruiser suggested an easier path to the left. Ben led the way without hesitation. I followed and stopped at the base as Ben began the climb. It had been over a year since I had heard another 2.25 under load with transmission and diffs whirring away as Ben climbed the slope. It sounded good. He seemed to have a little difficulty at the crest but was soon over. I started up. I was a bit apprehensive as this was the steepest terrain I had ever attempted. All went smoothly until just before the crest, where the trail was very rocky and twisty. I had my right foot firmly wedged against the transmission bulge in the firewall as I was bouncing like crazy, and I found it difficult to judge my path with the tire on the hood. As I neared the top I saw a fairly sharp rock imbedded in the trail. There was no way around it. I was just about to reach the rock when I began to loose traction. Ben was carefully spotting me and I followed his hand signs, but I was sure I was going to lose a tire to that rock. Then suddenly the wheels caught, and I was up and over. Wow, what a rush! We go out and surveyed the section then continued on up to the first cut off leading to the lower end of the Bund Camp. We stopped and got a good look at the well and some of the remaining plumbing then heard continuous horn blowing coming down the mountain. Some very drunken yahoos in a big Ford pickup along with 2 Land Cruisers and some more ATVs surrounded us. I had a really bad feeling about this as they were very rowdy and profane except for the Land Cruiser driver. But they turned out to be really friendly and just wanted to know more about our Rovers. After we talked for awhile, the most drunken yahoo (the one who had been blowing his horn the whole time he was in his vehicle) tried to goad Ben into making a run into a rather deep looking mud pit about 30 feet long. But both Ben and I were too sensible to fall for it so I began to walk back to my Rover to try a different trail... SPLOOOOSHHH! I turned around and where is Ben???? Going nowhere fast in the bottom of the mud pit. I back up to his rear to pull him out with my handy dandy $10 ABP tow rope, and one, two three tries and BANG!!! So much for that tow rope (I guess it must have been a non-genuine part). And his Rover didn't budge an inch. I was amazed that Ben's Rover was still running, as the exhaust was well under water producing that distinctive Camel Trophy burble. Ben says his Rover is sinking as I get back in my Rover to try to pull him from the front. I don't give his statement much thought. Ben produces this big mother rope and proceeds to tie it to his Warn 8000 pound winch. Hmmm... I could have sworn that winch was above the water just a few minutes ago? Suddenly Ben's Rover dies. We try WD-40 on the wires. No good. This is going to be more difficult than I thought. We hook up the rope to my 88 and try a pull at about a 30 degree angle (no room to pull direct). No good. I pull around to the back again to try with the rope. Once, twice, three times. Ben gets out and begins to push and rock his Rover. The loss of the 170 lb. or so plus Ben's pushing causes the Rover to begin to move. One more try and it's out. Ben wipes the water from the inside of his distributor cap and he's going again. We try several more trails, some impassable, attempting to steer clear of the other folks. After another steep climb further up the mountain We begin to search for a path to an area with a sheer drop off to an adjacent quarry. I am beginning to feel more confident at this point. We park near where we think it is and walk. The drop off is very near and quite spectacular. Several hundred feet straight down and a view clear to the Manhattan skyline, with the Empire State and Twin Towers clearly visible. We take more photos and decide to head back, saving the rest of the mountain for another day. On the way down, Ben toots his horn as he enters an adjacent trail then backs up quickly to avoid the now extremely drunken yahoo in the Ford Pickup barrelling up the mountain. We let them pass and Ben starts down first. He takes the path with the sharp rock that we came up. I've read how much axle articulation the coil sprung Rovers have, but I was amazed to see the tremendous amount of flexing the drivetrain of Ben's 88 demonstrated on the way down. It was clear the going down was far more difficult than going up and Ben waved me off to another trail to the left. First low, foot off the brakes. Woa! these rocks were a little too big to just idle over and I had to stab the brakes to keep the momentum down. It turned out to be the better choice as I reached the bottom well ahead of Ben. His section was really difficult, but he navigated it with no breaks or dings. We headed back through the woods to the stream and took turns crossing back and forth and shooting photos of each other pushing bow waves. Great fun! Ben runs out of film so I head over to the far bank to shoot him coming back across and park out of the way. I stand on the edge as he enters the stream pushing a nice bow wave, which grows larger in the viewfinder until it breaks over my sneakers. I wonder when Ben will turn to make the well used crossing point then realize that he is continuing upstream! BEN, NOOOOOOO!!! As Ben heads upstream to spawn I run back to my Rover to get ahead of him. I find him a few feet from the seldom used exit point in the river stopped dead. We try the WD-40 and wiping out the distributor again but the Rover won't turn over (and you can't hand crank it with the winch in place). Great, another dead pull. So we try Ben's come along. After pulling it a foot or so I just about collapse . Geez, you have to be a weight lifter or something to use one of these things (I guess Camel Trophy will have to wait another year for me). So finally Ben gives in and decide to use the his trusty winch. He spools it out and hands me the hook. I hook it to my towing pintle and hop in. First gear, low, Ben in his Rover steering - he's moving... right into a tree! I stop and back up. We push his Rover back so that he can steer around a rather large branch that was about to take out his roof rack that was out of his field of vision. Try again. Success! And the Rover is running, thanks to Ben's quick use of clutch and gear. I have to admit that winch sure came in handy. However, watching Ben spool the cable back using his fingers around the drum seemed like kind of a drag. I'll bet that with a working controller that winch could be downright useful. It felt pretty good to have been able to tackle that route without breaking anything. It was pretty serious in spots. Now we unlocked the hubs and back into 2 wheel high. On the way back I notice that the brakes work... ineffectively. After a couple of stops they are back to normal but It was pretty unnerving the first time. Ben reminds me when we stop at my place of the need to dry out your brakes after fording. Next time I'll remember. After we got cleaned up and dried out we went out for burgers at this 100+ yr. old barn bar in Wycoff that is not allowed to advertise as they are in a residential area. A great place and a great end to a great day. One thing about bad lighting in bars or restaurants, not only does it make the homliest of the opposite sex look rather attractive, but when your clothes are splattered with mud it isn't quite so obvious. The one thing that Ben and I agreed that could have made it even a little bit better would have been if Russ could have made it with Nigel. Unfortunately, Russ's wife works in Boston, Russ lives in NY state, and this happened to be a conjugal visit weekend for the Dushins in Boston. Next time we'll get Russ to tell her he's got some communicable ailment and will be unable to perform his manly duties for a week or so. Next time, Russ buddy. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 09:23:18 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: The yellow knob From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 08:34:33 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Fredette writes: > NADA stands for North American Dollar Area, and > refers to a model of 109 that was imported to the US in I > think 1967. It had a special 6 cyl engine peculiar > to that model only, of which only about 500 were built. As > you can imagine, parts for this NADA engine are just about > impossible to get. Steve Dennis in New York, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, > is fortunate enough to own on of these rare birds among his many > 109's. The NADA as a specific model does refer to this 6 cylinder 109, but all of the North American Land Rovers were also NADA's. To someone like Merseyside in the UK, a NADA is a US/Canadian spec, left hand drive Land Rover, not necessarily with the 6 cylinder engine. There is some difference from a standard 109 station wagon (bulkhead is slightly modified for the longer engine, brake shoes are wider (thus different drums & hubs), different rear axle, different engine. That's about it) As per an example of a 6 cylinder NADA, besides Steve's I can think of four off-hand in the Ottawa area in OVLR. > I have always done as you do when changing to 4WD, that is stop. > But I don't think it's needed, although I would hesitate to do it at 50 > mph. I however, often changed out of 4 low to 2 high while moving as much > as 15-20 mph with no apparent damage or nasty grinding gear noises. Never tried at more than about 5 mph. See it done up to about 15 mph, but 50 mph sounds like a recipe for disaster. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 09:28:29 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Disco roof racks From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 08:42:00 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu writes: > When Land Rover went to Central America, all the Discos had huge roof racks > (does anyone know if these are the so-called "expedition racks"?) and some > of them were called upon to carry those carved stone idol replicas, which > surely weighed more than 250 lbs. Whoever asked about such racks (8/30 diges > ) might ask Land Rover. I would also be interested in knowing where to get > one, if you find out. Seen the Land Rover video of this (There is more mud at an OVLR Birthday Party than they show in that propoganda piece). The replicas were made of fibreglass and were definately less than 250 pounds apiece. 50 - 100 pounds most likely, tending towards the 50 estimate. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 10:46:54 1994 Date: 06 Sep 94 11:35:49 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> To: All Subject: LOCKED WHEELS Status: RO --------------- Forwarded Message --------------- From: Electronic Postmaster, INTERNET:POSTMASTER@CompuServe.COM To: BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN, 71773,3457 Date: Tue, Sep 6, 1994, 9:56 Subject: Problem encountered at CompuServe/Internet mail gate RE: Undeliverable Message Your message could not be delivered to the indicated receiver(s): Invalid receiver address: LROEAM.NET ********** ************************ ********** Message number: 940906135401 71773.3457 FHM52-1 Sent at: 09:54 EDT 06-Sep-94 Subject: LOCKED WHEELS I need some advise.Having trouble locking my front wheels.I own a 1966-67 109NADA wagon.Just recently I noticed I can lock or unlock the front right or left wheel but I can't lock or unlock both front wheels at once. What's the problem and how do I fix it? Is there any danger driving with one side locked and the other side unlocked out of 4wd? Thanks for any help I get, Benjamin G. Newman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 11:33:08 1994 From: "John R. Benham" Organization: WFOC Spokane, Washington To: LRO@Team.net Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 09:26:34 +1100 Subject: All British Field Meet, Portland, Oregon X-Confirm-Reading-To: "John R. Benham" X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO Dear LRO's Seven Rovers and their owners from the Eastern Washington area caravaned and attended the Portland ABFM held at the Portland International Raceway this year. Total registration was @ 85 Land Rovers and 10 Range Rovers. Several other late attendees and gate crashers brought the total to somewhere over @ 110 Rovers! The other displayed car owners stayed with friends or moteled it. The Rover people typically camped out near the raceway's pit area. Of course, there were numerous 88's and 109's, several new Defender 90's and a couple of 110's, 3 Dormmobiles, a lightweight cab forward outfitted with floating side pontoons, around 3 or 4 Discoverys, several early Series I's, a fire engine/pumper conversion, a military lightweight, and 2 or 3 military 109's. It was a pleasure meeting other LRO Netters who brought their vehicles. Names which come to mind include Mike Fredette (one of the organizers), TeriAnn Wakeman (w/her beautiful Peranese), Ben Hui, Walt Swain, Granville Pool, and Brad Krohn. Granville handed out window/bumber stickers he designed having a Land Rover Information Highway logo on it. After judging, there was an off road course set up for the Rover owners. I jumpped in the back of a topless 88 heading over to the course. An elderly couple were also riding in the vehicle, so I assumed the drivers pace was going to be relaxed - WRONG, he raced over the course eating air half the time. Today, my back still hurts from that run! It was also a real pleasure seeing the other fine automobiles (R/R, Bentleys, Lotus, Triumphs, MG's, Morris, Jaguar, Healy, Sunbeam, etc.). I fell in love with and almost bought a 1979 MGB! It was a real pleasure attending this years Field Meet. Thanks to Tony and Linda Starbird, Doug Shipman, and Mike Fredette who organized the Land and Range Rover section. John R. Benham Editor, `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 11:36:40 1994 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 11:33:11 -0500 (CDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by VX.CIS.UMN.EDU From: Tim Harincar Subject: Hello and some newbie questions To: land-rover-owner@team.net Reply-To: Tim Harincar Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Greetings, I have recently joined the ranks of Land Rover owners :-) with the purchase of a '66 Series IIA 88, poppy red Station Wagon with a tropical roof. I purchased the vehicle in NY state, and drove it back home to Minneapolis last weekend (which was an adventure in itself). Right now, there are three main problems that need to be addressed with the truck before I can continue driving it, and a couple of minor things (but arn't there always?). First, The brake lights don't work. Running lights and signals work ok, so some power is getting to the bulbs. Light bulbs and fuses are all ok. Second (and may be related to above), it seems the generator is faulty. This is curious since a new one was added last winter (I have the receipt). The new one is a Lucas, but I'm not sure which model or if its a rebuild or new. It seems odd that the generator would fail after 7 months the same day a shop was working on the electrical system (trying to fix the brake lights) by pure chance. Thirdly, the Zenith carb is *way* out of adjustment. It is running very rich. So rich, that it would tend to flood when warm and then kill, as in exiting the freeway or such. I pulled the plugs and they were *black*, caked with carbon. I was looking into the carb when the engine was off, and I could still see gas dripping into the throat. Checking the Haynes manual, it would appear that either the o-ring between the top and bottom of the body is shot or misaligned, allowing gas to leak in from the float, or the float is set wrong (or maybe both). Looks like I may have to open the carb... Any tips, tricks, or suggestions on any of these problems would be great, as well as any other good "new owner" info. I had done a bit of homework on LRs (like pulling the LRO FAQ) before buying, so I have some understanding of what I'm working with. (BTW, the FAQ was a big help - kudos to those who put it together). Thanks for the help, Tim Harincar -- tim harincar soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu or harincar@internet.mdms.com -- tim harincar soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu or harincar@internet.mdms.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 11:58:40 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 12:44:41 EDT Subject: Cleaning Galvanized Trim Status: RO Can anyone recommend a good way to clean up my galvanized trim parts? Someone recommended 5F5, used with a brass brush, has anyone tried this? If I paint with the galvanized paint (Birmabright?) will it chip and need to be painted once a year? This is my main concern with painting. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 13:19:02 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Air-Camping (Gidion's) From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 19:08:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO William Grouell asked me to find a source for Air Camping spares. The Air Camping manufacturer address has changed. I saw the new Air Camping premises two days ago, while I was going to a friend's wedding in the countryside. I'll go there this week and ask for parts/etc. Sorry, William, but I've lost your e-mail address. Can you send me a list with your Air Camping model, and the parts you need? Ludovico __________________________________ Ludovico Magnocavallo ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it __________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 13:18:47 1994 Date: 06 Sep 94 14:11:18 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: Idle Problems Status: RO Greetings all: Well, just days before I was going to do my fall tune up, my '62 Series IIa Military is having some nasty idling problems and, while I think I have the problem figured out, I wanted to solicit feedback from all of you... Here is the situation... Friday night, the car ran perfectly... good power, smooth, quiet idle, etc. Saturday morning, the idle was very rough, blew out a lot of black, black smoke (no oil in the smoke, just jet black, sooty smoke.) At higher speeds, the engine was smooth and had great power. It was just at idle that the problems manifested themselves. Moreover, the carb made a sucking sound that was like a kid drinking the last of his milkshake through a straw. Very distinct! So, I started my fall tune-up early... I replaced the fuel filter (it was rather cruddy) and, since the filter was full of junk, I also pulled down the carb (Zenith built under contract by Solex) and cleaned out the float and all the needle valves and the accelerator pump. There was a bit of junk in the carb, but not much. I also cleaned the points and rotor, checked the contacts on each plug wire (and cleaned them) and pulled the plugs and re-gapped them. Plugs were spotless... nice light brown color and not a speck of oil on them. I also checked the vacuum advance and found a small split in the rubber fitting that secures the vacuum line to the base of the carb. I corrected this as well. All that served to give me better power in the top end, but if anything the idle has deteriorated further. Tons and tons of black smoke. As background... the car is running a brand new (out of military storage) engine -- only 5000 miles on it. I installed it last summer and it has run flawlessly since. The problem is definitely not with the block, etc... I believe it is fuel or ignition related. So, here are my theories on what is wrong: 1. A carb air leak that I have not found yet... I plan on running it tonite and spraying outside with WD40 or similar to see if I can isolate the leak and repair it (if there is one). (Rovers North backed me up on this one... it is their theory on what is wrong) 2. A bad coil. I have heard similar things with bad Lucas coils... lousy idle, tons of smoke but good top-end speed (above 1200 RPM, basically.) I have a new coil ordered and it is one of the few things I did not replace when I put the new engine in. I do not know its history or how old it is. I tend to think it is the coil, since the problem was sudden and not an incremental occurrence. 3. Bad condenser/worn rotor/worn points/worn distributor cap (I don't think this is likely... but it was on my fall tune-up list anyway.) 4. That the mixture on the carb is messed up and is running way too rich (does anyone have instructions for tuning a Zenith... my Manuals only cover the Solex and I would really appreciate a rundown of the instructions for dialing in a Zenith!) That would explain the black smoke, anyway, though unless someone had opened the hood and monkeyed with the carb, I don't see this happening all at once.. 5. That it somehow slipped out of time (again, not likely, since the timing chain, etc. was perfect when I put the new engine in, and if it was out of time, it would not have been running well at speed. Anyway, thanks in advance... next weekend is to be dedicated to getting the "Sargent Major" ready for winter and for the Virginia Rally. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers, R. Pierce Reid '62 IIa Military 88 (The Sargent Major) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 13:37:29 1994 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 11:30:03 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: All-Brit Field Meet, Portland, OR Status: RO Just back from the All-British Field Meet in Portland, Oregon USA and WOW! I didn't know I could stand to have that much fun! What a lot of wonderful people we (my son Bennett and I) met and what a lot of incredible Land-Rovers (and, yes, other cars, too) we saw. Pleasure and information overload! Bennett (age 17goingon18) was a fence-sitter regarding Land-Rovers. Thought they were neat and fun to drive but not sure that a seedy one like our camo '70 88 was cool enough to drive to high school. No more! He's a full-fledged convert and now dedicated LRO and aficionado. Espcially after seeing Doug Shipman's tastefully and thoroughly battered 88, Bennett now really appreciates the beauty of bent (as I always have). However, Bennett also now also has a painfully intense lust for a really gonzo Mini-Cooper. Oh, boy. At the Saturday night barbeque, I got elected (I assume as penance for my having tow'd my Rover to the meet) to write a digest. I will, but have to do a little catching up first. And, really, I couldn't carry the Dormobile top and all the other swap-meet parts in the Land-Rover. Got to mention our trip back, though, before I get back to work. We returned from Portland via I-5 south. In Weed, CA, we stopped for petrol. While we were waiting in line for the pumps, in wheeled (sound of gasping and rubbing eyes) a Range Rover fully rigged for the outback! It was white and equipped with a brush guard (bull bar) combined with heavy-duty winch bumper and winch. It was capped by a hefty full-length-plus roof rack with a row of jerry can holders across the rear and (as I recall) a couple of custom metal storage boxes. To get to the rack, there is a neat cast aluminum step recessed (yes, cut) into the left front quarter, just ahead of the driver's door. Then there is an aluminum diamond-plate angle riveted to the top of the cowl panel so that one can step up onto the edge of the cowl and stand to reach the rack. The owner was a handsome and striking fellow (Tupper Blake by name) with a voluminous white handlebar mustache and a charming smile. I commented to him that he obviously uses his Range Rover as it was originally intended. He said yes, he is a wildlife photographer and uses it very much. When he was to do a three-year project for the Smithsonian along the Mexican-U.S. border, he needed an expedition vehicle and working platform suitable for desert work. He and his equally handsome (I didn't get to talk to her but assume also equally charming) wife wanted a real Land-Rover but felt they needed to start with something new. They were told that they could not bring such a Rover into the country and so had to settle for the available Range Rover. Mrs. Blake (who designs expedition equipment) designed a rack which would carry their gear and serve as a working platform. They turned the plans and the vehicle over to a welder for a few days, with the additional instructions that they would need some sort of ladder or other way to get up to the rack. Mr. Blake was impressed with the audacity of the welder for his cutting-a-brand- new-Range-Rover solution! But, in fact, the Blakes are quite pleased with the result and Bennett and I thought it looked really great. Mr. Blake said that if we wanted to see the results of their work, it would be published this fall in a book entitled "Two Eagles." I, for one, will look forward to having a look at this work. Nice way to cap off the week-end, huh? Also saw a good-looking 2-door 109 on the highway. It was headed north, in perhaps Tehama or Colusa County or thereabouts. Painted sort of an earth yellow, perhaps a little browner than Camel yellow. Nice deserty look. Had hard top with two fixed side windows on each side. Driver (dark hair and mustache, I think) was certainly looking at us when I noticed him (almost too late) and passionately waved to him. Not one I had seen before. More later. Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool | 52 80" Series I (gutted, project) ] [ mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net | 59(?) 88" hardtop (parts) ] [ 2601 Road I, #0 ("Road-I-Land") | 61(?) 88" Ser IIa sta wag (project)] [ Redwood Valley, CA 95470 | 70 88" Series IIa "station wagon" ] [ (707) 485-7220 | 73 88" Series III hardtop ] [ Land-Rover's first because | 74 88" Series III hardtop (project)] [ Land-Rovers last! | (?yr) Ausin Champ 4x4 (project) ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 13:45:45 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Military engines (was Idle Problems) To: 70004.4011@compuserve.com (R. Pierce Reid) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 13:36:57 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <940906181118_70004.4011_FHT42-1@CompuServe.COM> from "R. Pierce Reid" at Sep 6, 94 02:11:18 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 710 Status: RO R. Pierce Reid was bold enough to point out... > >As background... the car is running a brand new (out of military storage) engine >-- only 5000 miles on it. I installed it last summer and it has run flawlessly >since. got a location where more of these might be obtained? and $$$? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 13:51:44 1994 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 14:42:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: land-rover-owner@team.net, Tim Harincar Subject: Re: Hello and some newbie questions Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01HGSGV9YWTU9QWT20@VX.CIS.UMN.EDU> Status: RO Tim writes: >Thirdly, the Zenith carb is *way* out of adjustment. It is running very rich. >So rich, that it would tend to flood when warm and then kill, as in exiting >the freeway or such. I pulled the plugs and they were *black*, caked with >carbon. I was looking into the carb when the engine was off, and I could >still see gas dripping into the throat. Checking the Haynes manual, it would >appear that either the o-ring between the top and bottom of the body is shot >or misaligned, allowing gas to leak in from the float, or the float is set >wrong (or maybe both). Looks like I may have to open the carb... Tim this is exactly what my Zenith did when I put it on. So much black smoke, you would have thought it was a deisel. Anyway Icalled RN and got the explination of how to cure a sick Zenith. You have to take it off the car and separate the two halves and remove the inner extension. Then get a piece of plate glass and some sand paper or wet dry emory paper and some light oil. Sand the gasket surfaces of the two halves, using the glass as the flat surface, until they are perfectly flush. It seems that the body of the carb warps slightly and causes the o ring to not be able to seal properly. Thereby allowing gas from the float bowl to be sucked around the o ring and into the throat. There are two idle circuts to the carb, one in the upper-(no adjustment)--- and the adjusting needle in the lower. After you have gotten the halves to match perfectly, put it back together and it should run like new. Be careful with the main gasket and you should be able to reuse it. It only should take you a couple hours. I did mine after work one evening. I think I am going to get the rebuid kit and redo it later but it runs so well that I'll wait. Hope this helps, Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 14:28:33 1994 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 14:47:58 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Capstan Winches Status: RO As Mr. Natural once said (any diehard R. Crumb fans out there?) "the right tool for the right job" I've been using an AeroWinch capstan for several years now...got it off a vehicle from Afghanistan...it was probably made circa 1956. I've pulled a well and truly stuck Defender 90 last weekend, skidded a bunch of logs and pulled several stumps. The capstan is a *working* winch - it'll run all day long and won't melt down the way an electric winch will. You also don't need twin batteries and a heavy duty alternator. True, the capstan's pulling power is limited to 3,500#, but with a snatch block you can double that. Plus, you have absolute instantaneous, in-out control. I carry 200' of 9/16 Sampson "Sta-Set" dacron polyester halyard line (>3% stretch) that has a breaking strength of over 9,000# and it really doest take up much room if coiled on a spool. (Trees always manage to grow 10' past the end of the winch cable!) Electric winches do have a place...like self-recovery when you drown out in the middle of a stream like in "The Gods...", but for working, I'll take a capstan. Chef Harry Bligh of the OVLRC once parked a capstan-equipped Rover near a fire and used it to turn a side of beef on a spit all day long. Try that with a Warn! (And I've had this fantasy of making my own rope tow for skiing!) *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 14:25:33 1994 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 1994 12:18:23 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land-Rover watch defined Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Friend and net-lurker Gerry Mugele (Systems Analyst, specializing in expert systems and neural networks, has a '72 SIII 88--v. nice one) asked about my trip to the Portland meet. I told him about trading for genuine Land-Rover watch. He replied: Land Rover watch? What, it's made of riveted Birmbright with galvanized trim, leaks oil, makes alot of noise, regularly breaks its stem, and runs about 80% of the expected speed? Thought you'd get a bang out of that. A pleasure too great to articuate, it was (and remains), to have met you and all the northwest folks and to see so many wonderful examples of Solihull's finest. Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool | 52 80" Series I (gutted, project) ] [ mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net | 59(?) 88" hardtop (parts) ] [ 2601 Road I, #0 ("Road-I-Land") | 61(?) 88" Ser IIa sta wag (project)] [ Redwood Valley, CA 95470 | 70 88" Series IIa "station wagon" ] [ (707) 485-7220 | 73 88" Series III hardtop ] [ Land-Rover's first because | 74 88" Series III hardtop (project)] [ Land-Rovers last! | (?yr) Ausin Champ 4x4 (project) ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 14:37:10 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Brush Bars and Light Protectors To: 72700.3262@compuserve.com (Stephen O'Hearn) Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 12:30:38 PDT Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <940906185106_72700.3262_DHE19-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Stephen O'Hearn" at Sep 6, 94 2:51 pm Status: RO Well, my brushbars have come in handy, First there was the ELK I goosed going about 45 pulling a trailer. The ass of an elk looks pretty impressive hanging over the hood ( bonnet) of a range rover. The only damage was a small dent in the hood where the brush bar hit. Then there was the little mini van stopped in the middle of the icy hiway. The brushbar did about $3000 worth of damage to the rear door on the mini van, and only acuffed the rubber on the brushbar. note I installed larger diameter bolts to keep the brushbar from hitting the hood. The when the utility trailer came unhooked, and nailed the rear lens protector. Broke the plastic spacers, but saved the lens, and the fender. Then there is always the shopping cart at the super market. the brush bar is great for pushing carts out of the way with no damage to the truck. Russ I use my brush-bar..... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 14:43:49 1994 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 15:37:57 -0400 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Finally got it! Status: RO Just a quick note to inform the list that I finally took delivery on my 1967 Series IIa 88. Some of you will remember the restoration spec that I posted, and my list of questions. Thanks again to all who took the time to share their knowledge and experience. The project took longer than anticipated, but Roverworks did a marvelous job. The car looks and runs great. I spent Saturday installing the stereo system at the Roverworks shop. This, true to form, took longer than planned and it was dark before I headed home. At one point while cruising down the Taconic parkway (at a stately 55 MPH) a vehicle which I took to be an Izuzu Trooper pulled up next to me. Unlike the previous hundred vehicles, which had blown right past me, this one pulled along side and just cruised next to me for a minute or so. I didn't dare look over, as I was having a bit of difficulty keeping the Rover on the road which was bumpy and narrow. (New owner jitters, and I'd hoped my first "distance" drive would be during daylight hours.) Finally, the vehicle pulled ahead and caught a glimpse of the skylights. It was a red Discovery checking me out. I didn't dare flash my headlights for fear of blinding him with my 100 watt halogen high-beams. Later that evening, while cruising down the "main drag" in Rowayton, CT (where I live) a guy yelled out "Do you want to sell that car?" Of course I deferred, but it made me feel pretty good. No real adventures yet, but I'm loving it. Can't wait to get free from work so I can take a cruise! Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 14:54:33 1994 Date: Tue, 6 Sep 94 15:43:07 EDT From: "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" To: lro@stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Subject: quick brake fluid question... Status: RO I picked up some Castrol GTLMA instead of the usual LMA brake fluid this morning (only thing they had worth buying). Counterbeing thought it was fine for natural rubber seals but I thought I'd ask if anyone has used it yet... m From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 15:19:28 1994 To: lro@team.net Subject: PORTLAND ABFM Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 13:08:11 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO HI ALL Well the Labor Day weekend is over and another Field Meet is history, but what history! As was mentioned, we had over 100 Land Rovers, quite a feat in itself. But the best part was being able to meet several of you folks after so many chats back and forth. John Benham was there with his contingent from Spokane, Terriann Wakeman along with The Bear (possibly the coolest dog on the planet), Granville Pool and his son, Vance with his Ser lll camoflaged to look like a llA, and many others. It was the best meet on record! The jungle course that Doug Shipman had set up was THE hit of the meet, both with the LR folks and more importantly, the non Rover types. The Rassmussen company provided a Defender 90, a black County LWB Range Rover, and Greg Rassmussen's personal 110 Defender, and together they were giving rides nonstop both days. The Jag folks were suitably impressed with the RR and several were overheard talking about dumping their precious Jags and getting a beat up 88 to get muddy in. The Swap Meet on Sunday was well attended, and I managed to sucker Granville into trading a pair of back seats for my snazzy new Official Land Rover watch and some cash. Hurray, now I can take more than one person in the Defender! Just kidding about the sucker part there Granville, I really do appreciate the deal. There were several Land Rovers for sale as well as a few parts and goodies. Ben Freeman was there trying to clear out the last of his stuff from his apartment move, and British Pacific made thier first appearance. The owner/manager Lawrence was on hand selling books, magazines, stickers etc just as fast as he could bag things and take peoples money. A super nice guy and I'll definately be giving him a call for some parts. His company is now the second authorized Land Rover genuine parts distributer in North America. They stock the entire line and by the looks of thier catalog prices, cheaper than Rovers North in several places. 800 554 4133 toll free in the US. The banquet on Sat was great, except that the Jag yahoos took too bloody long with thier awards, something they were specifically asked not to do. As an example, they started a new class this year, number 17,(that's right, they awarded 1st - 3rd in 16 other classes, took FOREVER) this class is for Jaguars that have been modified so much that they no longer fall into a regular class of Jaguar. If this were the case with Land Rovers, we'd all be different classes as we've all modified ours to some extent. However, we did had some great jokes at thier expense during the Land Rover awards, courtesy of Doug Shipman. Again, I'd like to thank all those who made the long trek, I hope you can do it aqain. We sure enjoyed having everyone here, and look forward next year. And once again, it was a real privilege to meet so many great Land Rover people, many of whom we yak with every day from hundreds of miles apart. And Terriann, looking at John Benhams canvas water bag, they're supposed leak dear. Although weep would be a bit more accurate. The water sure was nice and cold though. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 Defender 90 61 Ser ll 109 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 17:18:53 1994 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 14:48:35 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Clutch woes Status: RO There are two ways to free up a sticking clutch. Mine has stuck twice: once when the engine was sitting for a prolonged period on my garage floor with the clutch bolted on, and the other was just after having the flywheel machined (the virginal steel is *very* suceptible to rust then). It can also happen after the Rover was "ridden hard and put away wet" (i.e., no bell housing plug.) Point it in a safe direction and start the Rover in gear, working the clutch as you go. Choose sucessively higher gears until the lurching breaks it free...sounding for all the world like a snapping lay-shaft! :-0 (This is what Charlie Haig at RN does.) Took me to third one time to break it loose. The other is to start your Rover in gear...chained to a tree! The weak link will part, and hopefully that is limited to the interface between clutch and flywheel. (This came from Mike McCaig who has used it successfully.) I bet you won't forget the wading plug again, Ben! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 17:19:07 1994 Date: 06 Sep 94 14:51:06 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: Brush Bars and Light Protectors Status: RO I have to own up to having these little affectations on my Defender (yeah, I even have those side bars). I suppose I also have to admit I had the dealer put them on. OK. Now I offer my defense... The brush bar has proven quite useful on a previous 4WD preventing headlight / turn lamp loss as well as grill and fender corner damage from brush limbs which protrude into the trail and are unavoidable. It also makes an excellent mounting location for lights and on the Defender it protects the winch solenoid box. The Defender's brush bar is not the best design since it wraps around the fender (I find this to be a drawback as the corner bend is "open"). It does interfere with access to the engine but only slightly and standing on a box makes things easier with or without the bar. The tail light protectors are potentially useful when backing up in tight spots with thick brush again. This will have to be seen. The side bars can provide protection to the rocker panel area but they also can be easily bent up (I've already scuffed my left one on a rock but only slightly, without it there would have been no contact). The benefit on the Defender is that the side bar makes exiting easier as it provides a step. So, in summary, the brush bar is useful but a matter of taste, the tail light protectors still have the jury out, and the side bars are, well, holding their own but might eventually come off. At risk of being stricken from this list I will timidly submit that these items can look cool. Uh-oh, might I have gone too far????? Treading Lightly...(even when I occaisionally break a small branch) Stephen O'Hearn 1994 Land Rover Defender 90 with scuffed left side bar From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 18:15:32 1994 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 15:40:25 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Tim & R. Pierce's Questions To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Tim, Welcome to the fold! >> First, The brake lights don't work. Running lights and signals work ok, so some power is getting to the bulbs. Light bulbs and fuses are all ok. >> Back the Rover up to a wall or something so you can see the brake lights reflecting. Adjust the brake light switch on the housing before the booster until the lights come on, then turn it the other way until it goes off. Get in and apply the brakes a few times. The lights should light without hesitation each time you step on the pedal. If not, replace the switch with a GENUINE replacement. I'm all for aftermarket parts but brake light switches are very fussy. >> Second (and may be related to above), it seems the generator is faulty. This is curious since a new one was added last winter (I have the receipt). The new one is a Lucas, but I'm not sure which model or if its a rebuild or new. It seems odd that the generator would fail after 7 months the same day a shop was working on the electrical system (trying to fix the brake lights) by pure chance. >> Sounds like they may have shorted out one of the brake light circuits. Careful patient tracing will find the fault. Actually, you should do this before you tackle the above. The following applies for both of you: R. Pierce & Tim, Re: Idle problems - What you describe could be caused by a warped carburetor housing (top half to bottom) or by a poor seal at the big O ring separating the venturi housing from the float chamber. Order a genuine kit (the gasket on the ABP kit is too thin) and strip it down. Flush all the passageways with carburetor spray cleaner, then put the top and bottom halves of the carb together and hold it up to a light. Make a mental note of where the high spots are (where the light does not shine through) and carefully file them down. Don't be in a hurry and you'll be able to get it fairly flat. Be sure to flush away all the filings. Reassemble being careful to set the float hight correctly and you should be set (the carb is very simple - just follow the manual and you'll be OK). Replace the carb and turn the mixture screw out 1.5 turns from bottom. Start the engine and adjust the idle to keep it running. Once it's hot turn the mixture screw in until it starts to die, then back it out until it smooths out. Set your idle speed and you're done (you should set points and timing first). Good Luck! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 17:15:53 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 6 Sep 94 14:53:19 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: *****b l o w b y***** Status: RO on my return trip from portland i noticed there was a lot of blowby coming from my oil filler cap? my landy is a series 2a 88" and came with the crank case vents on the valve cover and ontop of the oil filler cap. my question is what is causing all this oil from coming up the filler tube and all over the bulkhead? i ve already done a commpression test and it showed 160 all the way across thus suggesting that the rings are o.k. and it isn't because there is pressure blowing past the rings down into the oil pan and pushing it up into the vent cap. any help would be appreciated. thx ben hui From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 22:14:20 1994 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Sender: "JFisk1120" To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 22:20:53 EDT Subject: Movie Alert! Status: RO The other day someone mentioned another movie that had alot of Rovers in it. Does anyone remember what it was? I'm still upset that Blockbuster does not carry "The Gods Must be Crazy"!!! Let me know if you see it coming on at anytime on cable. I would appreciate it. Thanks, Jan Fisk Springfield, Missouri '64 Land Rover IIA '91 Range Rover County From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 22:21:27 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 23:16:56 EDT Subject: Rhinos, Elephants & Rovers, Oh My! Status: RO dixon writes: I was going through some old issues of the ALROC magazine that the Land Rover was designed to withstand a charging rhino. Another issue has another advert stating the same In the early 1970's Land Rover also had an ad that said "the Land Rover record for elephant gorings is two, if your rover has been gored more often or by more elephants please contact us." The ad features a SIII 88, no elephants or rhinos though. I found the ad in the back of an old National Geographic, if anyone would like a xerox, e-mail me and I will send you a copy Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 21:32:18 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 22:31:05 EST To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Subject: crumple zones Content-Length: 2045 Status: RO Uh, perhaps I've been spending too much time in Volvos (boxy but safe) but the discussion of rover stoutness versus crumple zones has gotten me out of lurk mode. Try this simple experiment at home. Tape a brick to your head and ram it into a wall at a fast walk. Then try this same test with a foam pillow taped to your head. Go ahead, I'll wait... There now. For those of you that have been running this experiment as a watcher rather than participant, you probably found that progressive deceleration (the pillow) was much kinder to the human body than immediate deceleration. Let me phrase that another way. I would much prefer to have some kind of transition from fast to stopped in an accident. I don't mind if the car is totalled -- those crumple zones, with the engine and tranny dropping onto the pavement, etc, are designed to save *me* not the car. Someone made the comment (can't remember whether it was on LRO or offroad) that they don't want to pay for federally mandated safety. Okay fine, but give me a company that will sell me a really safe car and I'll vote with my checkbook... Mike Rooth commented (and I'm roughly paraphrasing) that people have largely absolved themselves of any responsibility to keep themselves safe. Oops, I stuck a pencil in my eye...I'm going to sue the pencil maker, the retail store and probably the park ranger that watched the tree grow. I agree with Mike, you gotta watch out for yourself. I do both. I look for the safest transportation I can find and I look both ways. No I don't wear suspenders with a belt, but I do take reasonable precautions ... No flame wars here. I drive old vehicles without any safety equipment other than some primitive belting and new vehicles with antiskid brakes, crumple zones and airbags. I drive both carefully and count on *active* safety to save my bacon. Rolling, Lee Levitt llevit@idcresearch.com workroom: noun. A place to do things the SO won't let you do in the kitchen. A place to store things you'll need someday RSN. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 23:15:32 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: *****b l o w b y***** From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 06 Sep 94 22:38:19 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com writes: > on my return trip from portland i noticed there was a lot of blowby coming fr > my oil filler cap? my landy is a series 2a 88" and came with the crank case > vents on the valve cover and ontop of the oil filler cap. my question is what > causing all this oil from coming up the filler tube and all over the bulkhead > ve already done a commpression test and it showed 160 all the way across thus > suggesting that the rings are o.k. and it isn't because there is pressure > blowing past the rings down into the oil pan and pushing it up into the vent > cap. any help would be appreciated. Just a quick thought, and hopefully it isn't this, but last week we took Roy Baillie's engine apart because of *excessive* blow-by. By excessive, it was going through a litre every 20 miles, and being a Series III, the crank and valve cover vents were being vented into the frame (might as well oil it for the winter salt eh... :-)). An example of how bad it was occurred while I was driving behind him on the 417, a divided highway after the Calabogie off-road event. The front of my 109 was coated in oil. Compression in his engine averaged 150 across, from a low of 145 to a high of 160. Taking the engine apart found melted piston tops, cracked top rings and basically a $1,500 parts bill to fix. The cause, the engine being run very lean for a while by the previous owner (British Army in Alberta). Hopefully yours is not getting blowby for the same reason. Rgds, Dixon PS. His Land Rover did do the off-road without any problem, rather well actually... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 00:46:41 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 00:43:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: LOCKED WHEELS To: 71773.3457@compuserve.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"71773.3457@compuserve.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Ben has a three wheel drive??? > > I need some advise.Having trouble locking my front wheels.I own a 1966-67 > 109NADA wagon.Just recently I noticed I can lock or unlock the front right or > > left wheel but I can't lock or unlock both front wheels at once. What's the Not that it may matter much, but what type of free-wheeling hubs do you have, Ben? I have Warn hubs and have noticed that sometimes one will go in easy and the other will not. The solution has been to roll the truck foward a bit and the other side usually goes right in. You can drive it with one side locked, but you won't have any drive to the front wheels in four-wheel drive since the one side will, in effect, be spinning free. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 00:36:30 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 00:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Hello and some newbie questions To: soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Tim buys an 88..... > I purchased the vehicle in NY state, and drove it back home to Minneapolis First mistake... hope it's got a good frame (I live in NYS, my frame is swiss cheese) just kidding, I'm sure it's fine. > First, The brake lights don't work. Running lights and signals work ok, so > some power is getting to the bulbs. Light bulbs and fuses are all ok. > Lucas.. the Prince of Darkness strikes yet again!! OK..(A)-Check the brake light switch. (B) check the wires to and from the switch. (C) take another look at the running lights. (D) look at the ground connections for the running lights. The Rover uses a seperate circuit for the brake lights, and the brake and running lights use a dual-filament bulb. The running lights could work OK or they may appear to work OK. You have to have good connections throughout. Typical NYS problems is lots of crud gets up through the hole in the body where the wiring goes through and plays havoc with all of the taillight wiring. Even worse if some ya-hoo got in there in the past and kludged a trailer wiring harness in. > Second (and may be related to above), it seems the generator is faulty. This > is curious since a new one was added last winter (I have the receipt). The > new one is a Lucas, but I'm not sure which model or if its a rebuild or new. > It seems odd that the generator would fail after 7 months the same day a > shop was working on the electrical system (trying to fix the brake lights) > by pure chance. > Not so odd.. it's Lucas after all.. How long did this beastie sit before you brought it home?? Maybe, just maybe, whoever installed the generator didn't polarize it first. (Check the Haynes manual on how to do that, give it a try, it can't hurt.) > Thirdly, the Zenith carb is *way* out of adjustment. It is running very rich. Can't help you there... Mine ran so rich people thought it was a diesel! Now I have a Rochester. Good luck with it all. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 01:39:29 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 00:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: quick brake fluid question... To: brandenberg@wrksys.enet.dec.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"brandenberg@wrksys.enet.dec.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > > I picked up some Castrol GTLMA instead of the usual LMA brake fluid > this morning (only thing they had worth buying). Counterbeing thought > it was fine for natural rubber seals but I thought I'd ask if anyone > has used it yet... > It's the only thing I ever use in the Rover and the Triumph. Never leave home without it! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 00:38:54 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 00:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Movie Alert! To: JFisk1120@aol.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"JFisk1120@aol.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Here's another one for you... "Four Weddings and a Funeral" British movie with lot's of good British humor (or what I take to be British humor). A couple of good shots of a 88 IIA and at least one 109. Not lots of rover stuff, but a fine movie anyway. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From LROVER@MAX.U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed Sep 7 00:07:13 1994 Date: Tue, 06 Sep 1994 22:07:04 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: Re: Military engines (was Idle Problems) Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu X-Envelope-To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu X-Vms-To: IN%"ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Let me know about an engine in desparate need of one. Sincerely, Benjamin J. Freeman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 01:41:44 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 01:07:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Rhinos, Elephants & Rovers, Oh My! To: Spenny@aol.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"Spenny@aol.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > > In the early 1970's Land Rover also had an ad that said "the Land Rover > record for elephant gorings is two, if your rover has been gored more often > or by more elephants please contact us." > I've got a bit of some TV program on videotape about some chap studying elephants. Most of it is pretty mundane but there is one part that is real good. They were "darting" young bulls and fitting them with radio collars to track thier movements. The tricky part is they have to administer a antidote to the tranqualizer because it's not good for the elephant to be down too long in the heat. The guy was trying to inject the antidote when the matron noticed what was going on. The next bit of footage gets real exciting as the guy jumps back into the 88 and starts backing it up at a very high rate of speed. Not fast enough however, because the matron charges the Rover and actually rams it a number of times. The camera was bouncing around *quite* at bit, but you do get a glimpse of a badly bent steering wheel! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 02:48:50 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Movie Alert! To: JFisk1120@aol.com Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 01:44:51 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9409062220.tn431780@aol.com> from "JFisk1120@aol.com" at Sep 6, 94 10:20:53 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 988 Status: RO Jan Fisk writeth: < The other day someone mentioned another movie that had alot of Rovers in it. < Does anyone remember what it was? At the last Oscars round, we came up with our own extensive list of LR Oscars/Emmys/GoldenGlobes... Maybe we need a master list for the FAQ, along with celebrity LROs, etc.! Sandy Grice mentioned the upcoming (next month, I think) Stallone&Stone (barf!) "The Specialist". The trailers show a flaming 110 flying through space. Somebody else recently mentioned Harrison Ford's "Clear and Present Danger" in which the bad guys drive RRs. < I'm still upset that Blockbuster does not carry "The Gods Must be Crazy"!!! < Let me know if you see it coming on at anytime on cable. I would appreciate < it. I've seen it in independent video stores. Did the sequel have Rovers? (Still haven't seen it.) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 02:59:17 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: 500,000th Land Rover? To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 01:56:21 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 742 Status: RO Some time ago Robin mentioned something about the 500,000th Rover coming off the production line in 1966. I didn't catch the end of that thought. Since my 109 is a 1966, I'm curious if one can determine somehow the day and/or month any particular car rolled off the assembly line, and what its production number was. Furthermore, I understand that the first three digits of 1962-79 chassis numbers indicate model and specification. My prefix is 254 -- what does it mean? I'd hate for Sali to miss her own 30th birthday out of sheer ignorance. (Rovers give new meaning to "over the hill".) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 04:32:39 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: crumple zones Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 10:30:40 UNDEFINED Status: RO /Try this simple experiment at home. Tape a brick to your head and /ram it into a wall at a fast walk. Then try this same test with a /foam pillow taped to your head. Go ahead, I'll wait... I prefer to run my brick into a pillow. Doesnt damage the brick............ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 07:01:00 1994 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 07:57:46 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Elephants & Rovers To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Mike writes: >> I've got a bit of some TV program on videotape about some chap studying elephants. Most of it is pretty mundane but there is one part that is real good. They were "darting" young bulls and fitting them with radio collars to track thier movements. The tricky part is they have to administer a antidote to the tranqualizer because it's not good for the elephant to be down too long in the heat. The guy was trying to inject the antidote when the matron noticed what was going on. The next bit of footage gets real exciting as the guy jumps back into the 88 and starts backing it up at a very high rate of speed. Not fast enough however, because the matron charges the Rover and actually rams it a number of times. The camera was bouncing around *quite* at bit, but you do get a glimpse of a badly bent steering wheel! >> Several years ago I was watching a segment on CBS called "Dangerous Moments in Photography" or something like that. They showed a segment that was somewhat similar. The photographers were in a topless IIA 88 with the camera bolted in back facing forward. I've forgotten whether they were just photographing or tagging the animals, but they find themselves facing this big bull. The animal starts to charge and thrusts his (her?) tusks through the radiator and pushes (running) the Rover backwards for quite a ways . It's like you're sitting in the Rover with one very pissed off elephant's tusks through the radiator running at you and the brush/trees are moving by at high speed away from you (very exciting footage). I don't remember if it flipped the vehicle on it's side or not but after the animal had left they surveyed the Rover. It was declared a total loss. The other interesting non-Rover footage I recall was that of killer whales swimming up onto the beach to snatch seals on the sand. They then wiggled and rolled back into the surf. Real amazing stuff. I haven't seen it since but would be sure to tape it if it comes around again. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 08:00:45 1994 Date: 07 Sep 94 08:54:44 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: Thanks, Helper Springs and Movies Status: RO Greetings. First, thanks to Bill for the advice on the carb... that agrees with Rovers North diagnosis, so I guess my thought about the coil may be off... I ordered one anyway, so it'll probably end up in the spares box. Second, someone asked about movies... One with lots of Rovers in it is called A Crack in the World (or was it Earth??)... a really bad sci-fi movie, but worth the rental to see the Land Rovers. Another movie that starts Friday is called "A good Man in Africa" and has Sean Connery driving a gorgeous IIa Pickup 109. I can't believe Blockbuster does not have the Gods Must be Crazy... You sure it is not under foreign films? It was made in South Africa. Of course, the fact that it came from S.A. (and was made before apartheid ended) may keep some stores from carrying it, but I have seen it at other Blockbusters... Finally... My add-a-leaf kits arrived last night and I will be installing them over the weekend. The kits, though ordered through J.C. Whitney, are by Hellwig, which has a good reputation for quality. The springs are quite robust looking and have a strong curve to them, which accounts for the lift they claim they will give the vehicle. The front springs are easy to install, as the helpers fit between the retaining clips, and do not require that the retainers be removed. the rear ones will be a bit more challenging, and require that the spring pack be totally disassembled. From experience, I know I'll need to heat the retaining clips (Propane torch is ok, as they are made of malleable steel) and the re-bend them once the spring-pack is back together. I'll let everyone know how the project goes parts ordered, etc. This looks like an easy suspension modification. I plan on picking up some film and photographing it, too, so I may pot together an Aluminum Workhorse tech piece. Cheers, R. Pierce Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 08:04:54 1994 Date: 07 Sep 94 08:57:28 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> To: ALL Subject: ADVICE Status: RO FELLOW LRO As you know from previous correspondence, I have a 6-cylinder, 1966, 109 NADA station wagon. The engine is not the original engine but, in fact, we have determined it is a 1955 to 1959 Rover automobile engine. Because of potential problems I am having with this engine, I am considering replacing it with a Turner rebuilt 4-cylinder, 2.5 liter, high-performance engine. I am also considering, while replacing the engine, putting in a rebuilt Series III transmission. I found a fellow in Europe who rebuilds transmissions to military specifications who tells me the Series III rebuilt is as good as, if not better, than a late-model Series IIA and, of course, it is syncromeshed. My question is, what are the advantages and disadvantages of changing out the differentials and putting in a 3.5:4 differential in the front and rear? I was told since I will be reducing my horse power by putting in a 4-cylilnder engine, that this will increase my speed at a very minor cost of power. I also have been told that with the change of differentials that I would no longer need an over-drive. Since I already have an over-drive that is brand new in my vehicle, what effect would I have by keeping the over-drive or should I get rid of it? Of course, if there is not much difference in changing out the differentials, I prefer not to do so, because of the obvious expense. Comments about this proposal from around the world are anxiously welcomed. Also, does anyone have a good source for these differentials? To Michael Loiodice: Thank you for your comments. Finally I was able to lock in the front wheels. I do not know what kind of locks I have. I know I have to pull down a bar and turn it before you can lock them in. There are two bars per wheel. I have noticed the past few days there is a little oil dripping from the hub of my front wheel. Does this mean I need a new seal or do we live with this problem? Benjamin G. Newman,MD 1966 109 series llA NADA wagon 1962 88 warwick4X4 rebuilt to series lll specs From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 08:35:37 1994 Date: 07 Sep 94 09:28:40 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: Thanks Status: RO Bill: Thanks for the pointer... I'll give that a shot. Last night, I tried to find a leak on the carb by spraying carb cleaner along the gaskets, etc. but had no luck. I have ordered a gasket kit for the Zenith (Genuine, from Rovers North) and will start with that. I may also grab a piece of glass and some 400 grit emery paper and see if I can spot a warp on the top-plate. Your idea that the O-Ring may be part of the problem, though is interesting... that would explain why the carb seems to seal well and won';t react when the seals are sprayed. I assume there is a replacement O-Ring in the gasket kit. Since I had a friend rebuild and reset my carb a year ago when I last re-did it, I am not familiar with the Zenith (I had no trouble tearing it down and "think": I have identified each piece) but just for my record... the mixture screw, I assume, is the one at the bottom of the carb, near the adaptor plate and sort of sitting at about 7 O'Clock as you face the front of the vehicle? Thanks again for the help... I'll let you know how it turns out this weekend! R. Pierce Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 6 21:25:05 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: The yellow knob To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 12:21:57 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Mike Fredette writes: > > > NADA stands for North American Dollar Area, and > > refers to a model of 109 that was imported to the US in I > > think 1967. It had a special 6 cyl engine peculiar > > to that model only, of which only about 500 were built. As > > you can imagine, parts for this NADA engine are just about > > impossible to get. Steve Dennis in New York, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, > > is fortunate enough to own on of these rare birds among his many > > 109's. > > The NADA as a specific model does refer to this 6 cylinder 109, > but all of the North American Land Rovers were also NADA's. > To someone like Merseyside in the UK, a NADA is a US/Canadian > spec, left hand drive Land Rover, not necessarily with the > 6 cylinder engine. There is some difference from a standard > 109 station wagon (bulkhead is slightly modified for the longer > engine, brake shoes are wider (thus different drums & hubs), > different rear axle, different engine. That's about it) > > As per an example of a 6 cylinder NADA, besides Steve's I can think > of four off-hand in the Ottawa area in OVLR. > > > I have always done as you do when changing to 4WD, that is stop. > > But I don't think it's needed, although I would hesitate to do it at 50 > > mph. I however, often changed out of 4 low to 2 high while moving as much > > as 15-20 mph with no apparent damage or nasty grinding gear noises. > > Never tried at more than about 5 mph. See it done up to about 15 mph, > but 50 mph sounds like a recipe for disaster. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > Hi all, I'm still not recieving any mail from the list, but thanks to kind people, I have been sent the last few days mail!!! Any how on with the thread! With the yellow knob, it can be engaged at any speed, and with out the clutch, just as long as the front axle is turnung at the same speed as the back, this is so because it does not engage a gear, but simply engauges a dog clutch. If you try to engage it with the front axle traveling at a slower speed than the rear, ie. on a muddy road. when you hit the yellow know, you will hear a bang, and if you're not lucky, the motor will stall, the loud bang will be from the different speeds of the front and rear axle, the motor dieing will be from the sudden increase in grip. I hope that this will clear up some of the confusion!! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 06:26:34 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 07:17:54 EDT Subject: Names List Final Status: RO for the last time, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 am, when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 @ 6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post final results no later than Wed, Sept. 14 e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to use the internet mail address 1.) Land Rover Owners Club 2.) Rover nets 3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway 4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) 5.) RoversNet 6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection 7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network 8.) Rovers in the Ether 9.) Roving through the Ether... 10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. 11.) low-box net surfers 12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International 13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway 14.) Raving Rovers! 15.) The Net Rovers 16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn 17.) LROC of the Internet 18.) The Wired Rovers 19.) Space Rovers 20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers 21.) LROC of the Internet 22.) CyberLand Rovers 23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) 24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) 25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) 26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club 27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } 28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or 29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? 30 ) Car List Rejects 31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 10:39:50 1994 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 11:28:37 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: R. Pierce & Ben Newman questions To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO R. Pierce & Ben, My header didn't give me an accurate return address so I couldn't respond directly, so... R. Pierce writes: >> I have ordered a gasket kit for the Zenith (Genuine, from Rovers North) and will start with that. I may also grab a piece of glass and some 400 grit emery paper and see if I can spot a warp on the top-plate. >> That's the best way to do it. I just don't have the patience and opt for the file... carefully (I did try it though - seemed to take forever). >> Your idea that the O-Ring may be part of the problem, though is interesting... that would explain why the carb seems to seal well and won't react when the seals are sprayed. I assume there is a replacement O-Ring in the gasket kit. Since I had a friend rebuild and reset my carb a year ago when I last re-did it, I am not familiar with the Zenith (I had no trouble tearing it down and "think": >> Yup, a new O ring is included. If your friend pulled it apart without replacing the O ring, the O ring may not seal properly due to tearing or being just plain hard as a rock. >> I have identified each piece) but just for my record... the mixture screw, I assume, is the one at the bottom of the carb, near the adaptor plate and sort of sitting at about 7 O'Clock as you face the front of the vehicle? >> Yes, that's it. You may find the replacement needle too oversized (tight) to be able to feel it bottom out. Reuse the old if that's the case. Ben Newman writes: >> Finally I was able to lock in the front wheels. I do not know what kind of locks I have. I know I have to pull down a bar and turn it before you can lock them in. There are two bars per wheel. I have noticed the past few days there is a little oil dripping from the hub of my front wheel. Does this mean I need a new seal or do we live with this problem? >> Now I know what kind of hubs you have, but I don't know what they're called. I've got them on my 88 and when locked, they do seep oil from the two locking shafts that the bars pivot on. I have had them apart and the O ring seals seem OK. I don't worry about it. To lock them if they won't both lock at the same time I lock one then turn the steering wheel to lock one way or the other. I move the Rover forwards or back slightly then get out and try again. It may take a couple of tries but this will work. If you don't turn the wheel both wheels turn at the same rate and the locking mechanism will never line up. Or you can cheat and lock the first hub that will then jack up the other wheel and rotate it until the locking shafts will engage. Have fun! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 10:57:24 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: reminder mail: list administrative stuff Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 11:49:39 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Here is the text currently being sent out to new subscribers... >Subject: Welcome to the land-rover-owner mailing list// digest !!! Last Rev 7 Sept 1994 Hi ! Welcome to the land-rover-owner list: You should receive one copy of this message, directly. For questions to or submissions to the list (which will also be received by the digest readers) send mail to: land-rover-owner@team.net OR lro@team.net All list adds are now being done to the lro-digest, see below for information on how to contact the automated digest-server, or how to contact me about the real-time list. At present the number of subscribers is over 150. We presently have subscribers from the AU,CA,DK,FI,IS,IT,NL,NO,NZ,ZA, US and in the UK, who have Rovers ranging from a '52, military light-weights, to current Defenders, Discos, Range Rovers, and a 101FC kit. (How about a 127" ? ) Feel free to post an introductory note about you and/or your truck. Traffic on this list tended to be moderate (less than 20 messages per day, with a daily digest of ~500 lines and 23KB.) until about August 1994, now messages are 30-70 per day, and the daily amount can exceed 100KB. --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com Stratus Computer Ltd tele: +44 81 570 4433 Central Hse, Lampton Rd fax: +44 81 569 4755 Hounslow, Middx. TW3 1HY; UK N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net Ps thanks for waiting, I'm doing list add requests once every couple weeks. --------- Land Rover Owner Mailing List Digest ------------------------ With respect to administrative stuff (subscribe/unsubscribe) the list and the digest are handled very differently. For administrative stuff (Info, Digest subscriptions, etc), send mail to: Majordomo@Chunnel.UK.Stratus.Com With the body or text of the message with lines such as: help info lro-digest subscribe lro-digest user@host.domain.name unsubscribe lro-digest The Digest is produced daily, at 8AM, UK in the US (eg. GMT + 7 hours). The Digest is not moderated, but it IS filtered to remove: (1) lengthly forwarded passages (which are annotated in a typical fashion), (2) excess headers, and (3) errantly inserted control characters. After filtering the Digest is distributed. Many people prefer the Digest as: they are swamped by the interactive mail, or they typically log on only once per day, or they are paying for mail storage, and the digest takes up less space and thus costs less. Note: __ALL__ new additions to the list are being added to the Digest Form. --------- Land Rover Owner Mailing List Digest ------------------------ For LRO list administrative stuff (subscirptions, etc), allow two weeks (as this is done by a human, me) and send to: land-rover-owner-request@team.net OR lro-request@team.net People may be moved from the real-time list to the digest-list if there is evidence that their host, or intermediate hosts are not accepting mail in a prompt manner. This will allow the real-time list to remain in real-time for those users who have adequate mail services. --------- Land Rover Owner Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) ----------- A subscriber to the list, Dixon Kenner has an assembled some FAQ documents for (potential/) Land Rover Owners. It focuses on older North American vehicles and includes a bibliography and list of North American clubs and dealers, some in the U.K. These FAQS are available from the FTP site triumph.cs.utah.edu (155.99.208.4) [login "anonymous", and use your mailing address as the password] Current files include: pub/sol/Land_Rover_FAQ.txt -Land-Rovers: Introduction and buyers guide. landrover.faq -Land-Rover FAQ (New files may appear from time to time.) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 10:46:07 1994 From: To: land-rover-owner@team.net Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 08:21:52 PST Subject: remove me from your mailing list. X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO Thank you for the information on your net. I no longer have the time to filter the info. Yours in Better Service, W. David Sykes President Andataco 10140 Mesa Rim Road, San Diego California 92121 619-453-9191 ext 1200, 619-453-2676 (fax) dave@andataco.com The best kept secret in the industry?????? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 11:40:11 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 12:29:44 EDT From: "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" To: lro@stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: quick brake fluid question... Status: RO > > I picked up some Castrol GTLMA instead of the usual LMA brake fluid > this morning (only thing they had worth buying). Counterbeing thought > it was fine for natural rubber seals but I thought I'd ask if anyone > has used it yet... To answer my own question.... New packaging confused me. The old stuff was also GTLMA, just with the bits moved around. Damned marketing people just can't leave things alone.... :-) m From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 11:38:45 1994 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 11:32:04 -0500 (CDT) Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by VX.CIS.UMN.EDU From: Tim Harincar Subject: RE: Hello and some newbie questions To: land-rover-owner@team.net Reply-To: Tim Harincar Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions. Last evening, I removed the Zenith carb and took it apart (well, I took the top & bottom half apart). The o-ring was in good shape. Next, I checked the float - bingo! The float was set way off. When holding the top half upside down, Haynes says the float max distance from the body should 1 5/16". This was set to less than 1" - about 15/16" (actually, the float would stop when it bumped into the body!). That would account for the flooding - since it was set low, when floating on the gas it wouldn't have enough travel to fully close the needle valve, and/or would allow too much gas into the float chamber. I checked the fit of the halves, and it was pretty good. The carb isn't that old, only about a year, so it doesn't appear that it has warped. I was able to get it running with a jump (generator problems are next), just to make sure it was working, but I haven't got into the fine tuning yet. I still need to clean all the plugs (I have new ones and just might replace them), as well as check the gap on those and the points. Thanks again -- tim harincar soc1070@vx.cis.umn.edu or harincar@internet.mdms.com From 70004.4011@compuserve.com Wed Sep 7 12:07:21 1994 Date: 06 Sep 94 15:39:13 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" Subject: Military engines (was Idle Problems) Status: RO Ray: 'Fraid I don't have any locations for one. I lucked into it in the U.K. on a pallet at auto jumble and still in Cosmoline and grease-paper. Cost me $800 for a complete, brand new short block... not cheap, but better than I could have gotten an engine here for. FYI, as best I can tell, there is no difference between the engine I got and a civilian motor. This was just out of a military parts inventory and the pallet was marked with military parts order numbers. Also interesting is the Carburetor, which is a Zenith, but which was made by Solex and has "Solex" cast onto the side of it. Apparently, the British military was pretty specific about where it could source parts from, so they had Solex build the Zenith carbs. FYI, my old block was cracked beyone repair and had to be scrapped. Sorry I can't help more. R. Pierce Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 12:37:04 1994 From: K Schmidt Subject: carb question To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 9:51:48 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO I now have a solex on my 62 IIa 88. I'm not happy with the fuel consumption. Has anyone heard of conversions to Rochesters? Any ideas of a model number or a donor vehicle that might have one? Any comments on performance, fuel consumption or potential problems with such a conversion? Thanks in advance for any ideas you might have. kurt s20845@sv1.rmc.ca From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 12:27:46 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:16:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety To: Hugh Grierson Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409042130.AA04999@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Actually, land rovers in this country are at the fore in saftey...most of them don't run!...only kidding folks.....but,isn't this list a form of safety .....While we're inside on the net....our rovers are parked in the drive *not* crashing into anything....(I wonder if we could get a club discount on insurance....) truly sorry,won't happen again...really steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 12:36:44 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:29:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Weekend jaunt/clutch woes To: Benjamin Allan Smith , Benjamin Allan Smith Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409050431.AA123609491@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The disc is rusted to the flywheel.... start it up in gear with the clutch pedal pushed in....it will go "pow" and release....you may have to give it some wellie,and push on the brake with your third foot....but once it comes loose,it is fixed...untill the next toyota come to town.. steve... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 12:59:48 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:49:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: crumple zones To: llevitt@idcresearch.com Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net In-Reply-To: <9408067789.AA778915864@ccmailout.idcresearch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO "HEY! NICE CRASH,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." On Tue, 6 Sep 1994 llevitt@idcresearch.com wrote: > > Uh, perhaps I've been spending too much time in Volvos (boxy but > safe) but the discussion of rover stoutness versus crumple zones > has gotten me out of lurk mode. > > Try this simple experiment at home. Tape a brick to your head and > ram it into a wall at a fast walk. Then try this same test with a > foam pillow taped to your head. Go ahead, I'll wait... > > OW! my head hurts! Really the experiment backfired...with the brick atached,my head went *through* the wall,and the energy was absorbed in the breaking /displaced wall board....the point is that inertia does play a major role here...if I hit a ford fiesta (1500lbs) with my 109sw (4000lbs) *somebody* is going to get more than their share of deceleration....("oh no,really,I*insist* that you slow down more quickly than I...) with the greater mass of our vehicles,we have the responsability to drive carfully....the the rest of the world *should* get out of the way,but they all failed physics...... steve.... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 13:02:46 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:57:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: ADVICE To: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> Cc: ALL In-Reply-To: <940907125728_71773.3457_FHM92-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Those hubs are Dual-Matics....do your self a favor and lose them... the detent ball that holds the arm in place rusts up and then the arms fly out, breaking off and making the whole affair quite useless.....they also tend to leak (they *were* land Rover approved...) Over drive and 3.54 are *way* too "tall"....even with a Ford V-8...don't ask....really...... steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 13:51:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 500,000th Land Rover? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 13:03:06 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "T.F. Mills" writes: > Since my 109 is a 1966, I'm curious if one can determine somehow the > day and/or month any particular car rolled off the assembly line, and > what its production number was. If one wants to sort through factory records, it is possible to determine this information (assuming it has not been lost). Beyond that, it is impossible to determine what year a IIA Land Rover was built in from the serial number. By what bits and pieces are on it, it is possible to narrow it down to within a year or two, assuming it is original. > Furthermore, I understand that the first three digits of 1962-79 > chassis numbers indicate model and specification. My prefix is 254 -- > what does it mean? Latest FAQ that I posted has this information. Basically, 254 means it is a left hand drive export model 109 with a petrol engine, basic configuration (Station Wagon was 264 prefix). > I'd hate for Sali to miss her own 30th birthday out of sheer > ignorance. (Rovers give new meaning to "over the hill".) Original registration will give that to you, though it is very possible that it might be a year older. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 13:51:36 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 11:39:55 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rovers and charging rhinos... Status: RO In message writes: > > Something that has been discussed before here... > > I was going through some old issues of the ALROC magazine > Transfer Box and came across a small reprint of a Land Rover > advert. from the early mid 1060's. In the advert they state > that the Land Rover was designed to withstand a charging > rhino. Another issue has another advert stating the same > thing, the photo showing a 109 Station Wagon in the background, > a bull rhino in the foreground. I have not seen reference to > fixing them with any simple tools yet. > > The first ad ran in 1965 (shows a 109 Station Wagon in the photo), > there is no date on the second. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada OH OH!!! I guess this means the courts will throw out my copyright to that phrase. Well there goes the millions in royalties and invitations to national talk shows. I guess I need to ring Ophra and tell her to cancel...sigh But... does the add mention field stripping in the jungle with a screwdriver and crescent wrench?...flicker of hope (Hmm that sounds like what happens when you use a Lucas light switch). Honestly, I don't remember looking at a Land Rover add in the sixties. I don't think I even knew what a Land Rover was then. sigh TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 18:47:43 1994 Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 19:31:04 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: More Info: Rattles and Rumblings from Sid To: land-rover-owner@team.net Status: RO First I would like to thank all that responded to my first post. The popping is the (virtually gone) front spring bushings. Now: * The rattle at 2500+RPM has proved difficult to track. * It can be produced in neutral or in gear. I don't think it is engine related because its worse in 2wd/hubs locked than any other combination. * All fluids are at max. I'm hoping that it may just be some loose linkage on a lever or something. Any more suggestions?? On a more positive note I drove 100 miles w/ no trouble this weekend. About 25 miles of very fun offroad, treading lightly of course. -Rgds, Joseph '67 ser IIa 88....."Sidney" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 15:11:22 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 13:02:37 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Spenny@aol.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re:Rovernet stickers Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO > Granville handed out window/bumber stickers he designed > having a Land Rover Information Highway logo on it. > >Granville, are these stickers available for sale, rent, lease? > >Spenny > I plan to refine the signs a little and actually include a Land-Rover logo (hope that doesn't get me in trouble with Solihull P.D.). I hurriedly threw something together for the show (Portland Meet) which was just on paper and card stock. I may alter the text a little as I refine this and add a logo (or maybe a graphic image of a Land-Rover). Will post a message when they are ready. I will not charge for card signs (SASE only) but will have to charge nominal amount for sticker versions (to cover cost of transfer film). Will let you know. I'm flattered by your interest. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool >>5 Land-Rovers (4-88" 1-80" ] [ 2601 Road I,#0, Redwood Valley, CA 95470 Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 15:48:08 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 16:38:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@team.net Subject: Off the subject Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I hope I don't make anyone in the group mad at me but I have one question that is not Rover oriented. I was hoping in the collective knowledge of this group that some one might be able to give me a clue. Anyway, The question is; does anyone know where I might get any information on a 1927 American La France 6 cyl fire truck. I haven't the foggiest idea about the engine. If you do have any info please send it to me direct at jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu. I don't want to use up our space here. Thanks for any ideas Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 18:30:00 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 14:15:11 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: s20845@hp.rmc.ca, lro@team.net Subject: Re: carb question Status: RO In message <199409071351.AA09309@g8.rmc.ca> K Schmidt writes: > I now have a solex on my 62 IIa 88. I'm not happy with the fuel > consumption. Has anyone heard of conversions to Rochesters? Any > ideas of a model number or a donor vehicle that might have one? > Any comments on performance, fuel consumption or potential > problems with such a conversion? > > Thanks in advance for any ideas you might have. > > kurt > > s20845@sv1.rmc.ca The Rodchester would need to be the one from the Chevy iron 4 cylinder engine that came in some cars in the sixties. Fuel consumption is higher in most cases (all that I'm aware of. The larger venturi is supposed to add a little more horse power. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 16:20:27 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 14:15:33 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: PORTLAND ABFM Status: RO In message <9409062008.AA19037@pdx242.intel.com> Mike Fredette writes: > HI ALL > apart. And Terriann, looking at John Benhams canvas water bag, they're > supposed > leak dear. Although weep would be a bit more accurate. The water sure was > nice > and cold though. > Rgds > Mike Fredette Mike! wait a minute, I had a canvas water bag on the nose of my 109. I've had it for years. Genuine large size flax desert bag with cork stopper, modified with bailing twine strap when the original one rotted. I was commenting on the things that others had said on the mail list. I too had a wonderful time at the Portland meet as always and renewed friendships. Bear got to play with his shadow again (Black Newfoundlands look a lot like white Pyrenese). Got to look at the pile of '90 parts that was recently shipped over from the UK in a big box...Amazing!!. Bear says to say Thanks to all of you at my table at the Sat BBQ who contributed bones for him. He thought they were VERY tasty. Camping at the meet was lots of fun.. especially since there were slightly more than 40 Land Rovers worth of people overnighting there with me. Maybe they will let us do it again... Except I prefer the Tony & Linda hosted BBQ. I got some excellent ideas on how to make my Land Rover a better camper and currently plan to head north this winter to pick up Doormobile parts :*) The off road course looked like fun but I decided that if I didn't want all my camping gear to be evenly distributed throughout the car, I would need to unload it first. I took one look at all the bungie mounted boxes and stuff and decided it was too much work. The only bad part about the trip was coming home. The lay shaft in the gear box broke on the way home from Portland on Monday. I had filled the car with petrol in Ashland, stopped at the California border check point and the transmission went BANG as I was pulling out of the checkpoint. Luckally I still had fourth gear (hi & low) and full tanks. I took the car to Scotty's house in Concord and got a ride home. He will fix the transmission for me and locate the strange engine noise that has plagued me since he rebuilt the engine. I hope to get the car back around mid Oct (when I have some $$ gathered to pay for the transmission work). I discovered that the Land Rover will go from Ashland to Concord (near San Francisco) in one petrol load (2 underseat tanks). The transmission had 16,700 miles on it after a rebuild which reused the old layshaft. Of course, I went up with Vance, problem free (except for needing to tighten the wiper arm), and had problems coming back alone. Oh well. It was still fun & Thanks Vance for providing company on the way up! TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 16:50:26 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: lromail volume To: tomills@du.edu (T.F. Mills) Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 17:40:26 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409042058.OAA29274@mercury.cair.du.edu>; from "T.F. Mills" at Sep 4, 94 2:58 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > As message traffic increases in this group, I am for the first time > deleting some without reading them. I read less than 10% of some > other groups. Since many people read selectively, the SUBJECT LINE > becomes all important. A word to the wise: if you want the right > people to read your message, be sure that the subject line really > describes your message (rather than being left over from an unrelated > thread). Please note that in some cases it is either impractical or impossible (?) to include a subject line in an outgoing message. If I use the standard "mail" command and type "Subject: some subject" on the first line a subject line appears for you and all to scan (no doubt this is an "automated" feature in many of your mailer programs). HOWEVER, I am then VERY restricted to what I write in that I can ONLY edit the line I am typing on and none of the above lines (remember my snowy nigel picture, for instance??). Hence, I do most of my postings by sending a file first created in vi.....but then I cannot (or have not figured out how to??) include a subject line. If I try to include "Subject: some subject" in the first line of my vi'd file it doesn't work....somehow a blank line is inserted in the process and that "Subject:etc" line comes out on line two. Perhaps there is an easier solution to the only one I've got (which is to copy and paste into the "standard mail" method after manually including a subject line....a tad of a pain in the arse). WRT excessive volume and the recent complaints about "multiple responses" that could be consolidated. Good point, but I think that there is a tendancy to respond in multiple messages because: a) many mailer programs have the "reply" feature that automatically inserts the ">" sign to let you know what was responded to but this cannot (or again, I and others don't know how) be done with several messages at once (without saving them to a file, then resending it to yourself: arg!) b) many persons may read one at a time and respond as they go. c) in some instances (but not for paying customers, I suppose) the inclusion of the subject line to key us in on what the message is all about is advantageous. But hey, many of these problems can be solved with the DIGEST and some good text searching techniques, no?? With all the volume and no time to read it that's where I'm heading.....fast. rgds, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 21:39:19 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 21:33:04 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Movie Alert! To: JFisk1120@aol.com Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9409062220.tn431780@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The movie was Delta Force II. It featured a chase scene with IIAs and some 109 Ser III. Lots of action. Stars were Chuck Norris and it is only about 1991, so it is up to date as it were. Dave VE4PN On Tue, 6 Sep 1994 JFisk1120@aol.com wrote: > The other day someone mentioned another movie that had alot of Rovers in it. > Does anyone remember what it was? > > I'm still upset that Blockbuster does not carry "The Gods Must be Crazy"!!! > Let me know if you see it coming on at anytime on cable. I would appreciate > it. > > Thanks, > Jan Fisk > Springfield, Missouri > > '64 Land Rover IIA > '91 Range Rover County > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 21:44:29 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 21:39:12 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LOCKED WHEELS To: LANDROVER@delphi.com Cc: 71773.3457@compuserve.com, lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <01HGT8H4370298C2EX@delphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I don't think you want to run with only one hub on for very long. It is very hard on the differential. I also run Warn locking hubs, and they are easy to overhaul. Just take out the bolts and wash out the old goo and put in fresh grease. Bits of sand get on the scroll area and they don't want to slide in and out. Dave VE4PN X From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 21:55:34 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 1994 21:50:53 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: carb question To: K Schmidt Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409071351.AA09309@g8.rmc.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re the Rochester. I run one with a #48 Jet or at least solder drilled out to #48 jet and it works very well. Good milage perhaps 16 and you can get them from old 1952 Chevy engines etc. Lots of them around. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 23:20:03 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: quick brake fluid question... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 22:08:59 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "The X Window System: A VMS for the 90s" writes: > To answer my own question.... New packaging confused me. The > old stuff was also GTLMA, just with the bits moved around. > Damned marketing people just can't leave things alone.... :-) Speaking of brake fluid, I have this nice virgin hydraulic system before me in the little earth pig. Now to fill with LMA, or go for the silicon stuff... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 23:20:13 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rovers and charging rhinos... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 07 Sep 94 22:14:16 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > OH OH!!! > I guess this means the courts will throw out my copyright to that phrase. You should have gone for the elephants... The second part about screwdrivers and crescent wrenches... Well, Off hand I am not sure yet, but somewhere I have seen that used too. Maybe in a review of the vehicle in an old car magazine. You might not have originated the phrase, but who cares that you don't get to take Ophra for a 109 ride, you may still end up with the credit when the credits roll... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 22:46:40 1994 Date: Wed, 7 Sep 94 20:36:06 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@team.net, mfredett@ichips.intel.com, twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: PORTLAND ABFM Status: RO Sorry TeriAnn for not being there when you broke your transmisson, that's what driving together is supposed to be for. I too had a great time at the portland event. I spent the right amount of money (had just enough cash for gas). Bought some cool stickers, tail light lenses, and books. The offroad course was excellent since it was made from a motocross track! My series III managed to go around 6 times with Ron my friend, James Russell, and myself taking turns driving. My side step did not make it though, it got torn loose from it's mountings. Hope to see you all next weekend at the Palo Alto meet for some more rovering. Vance Chin Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Sep 7 23:01:47 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: re: Bill and Ben's excellent Adventure Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 20:55:25 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO Subject: Ben & Bill's Excellent Adventure This is why I got back and wrote to the net before Bill could. That way I could get in a first impression before Bill clouded everything. :) >As I neared the top I saw a fairly sharp rock imbedded in the >trail. There was no way around it. I was just about to reach >the rock when I began to loose traction. Ben was carefully >spotting me and I followed his hand signs, but I was sure I was >going to lose a tire to that rock. The bedrock protruded at this point in the loose rock trail, causeing a foot or two high ledge across most of the trail. A larde boulder restricted movement on the left side. The path between the two was narrower than out 88s, and bended to the right. Putting the right tyre slightly on the bed rock, was the key to get through. I was easier going up than down. >After we talked for awhile, the most drunken yahoo (the one who >had been blowing his horn the whole time he was in his vehicle) >tried to goad Ben into making a run into a rather deep looking >mud pit about 30 feet long. But both Ben and I were too sensible >to fall for it so I began to walk back to my Rover to try a >different trail... SPLOOOOSHHH! I turned around and where is >Ben???? Going nowhere fast in the bottom of the mud pit. I had just seen the Land Cruiser go through twice. So it had to be passible. Not the way I went. 1 inch line and another Rover got me out. >It was clear the going down was far more difficult than going up >and Ben waved me off to another trail to the left. First low, >foot off the brakes. Woa! these rocks were a little too big to >just idle over and I had to stab the brakes to keep the momentum >down. It turned out to be the better choice as I reached the >bottom well ahead of Ben. His section was really difficult, but >he navigated it with no breaks or dings. Going down is much worse than up. Gravity is working against you and you can't see a bloody thing past the tyre on the hood. I got down the bedrock place, flying mostly blind, and gently easing my 88 by using the breaks and not the engine. My rear bumper hit the bedrock as I went down (I have a diamond plate bumper thing welded on instead of a rear crossmember. 2 owners ago did it.) and my tail pipe it, causing it to crack flush with the muffler. Luck for me I just got it inspected, so I don't have to fix it until July. >I wonder when Ben will turn to make the well used crossing >point then realize that he is continuing upstream! >As Ben heads upstream to spawn I run back to my Rover to get >ahead of him. I find him a few feet from the seldom used exit >point in the river stopped dead. I was having fun, the stream has a small rock bottom and was getting shallower. Just short of shore it died for no apparent reason (it was only a foot deep here) >I have to admit that winch sure came in handy. However, >watching Ben spool the cable back using his fingers around the >drum seemed like kind of a drag. I'll bet that with a working >controller that winch could be downright useful. My controller was stolen along with the winch kit. I get a new controller when I get a job. Until then I have to improvise. Last I heard RN wanted $50-$75 for the controller. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover SIII 88 w/o a working clutch From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 00:14:42 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Clutch, so far no luck Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 07 Sep 1994 20:57:53 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO Thanks to all on the advice for the sticking clutch. So far I've tried putting it in 1st low and surging the engine with the clutch down and surging the engine and then slamming on the breaks. No luck so far. I've gotten a lot of strange looks from the other people in the parking lot though. Tomorrow Dad and I will try again. If all fails, I've got 1 inch line and I find a tree on a quite side street. As for the wading plug. I don't have one. I've never had one. Until just before the trip willl Bill I'd never heard of the damn thing. Now I know. Something else to buy. Maybee I'll just take a piece of rubber and make a temporary stopper to plug the hole. (Assuming I can get the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel to break free) Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover SIII 88 that once moving can't stop (with out dying. Maybe I should rename it "shark") From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 02:26:42 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 00:19:46 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO How about "TechnoRovers" as a name for the list? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 02:36:36 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 03:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: ADVICE To: 71773.3457@compuserve.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"71773.3457@compuserve.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Ben's got 4-wheel drive!! > pull down a bar and turn it before you can lock them in. There are two bars > per wheel. I have noticed the past few days there is a little oil dripping > from the hub of my front wheel. Does this mean I need a new seal or do we live> > with this problem? Gee.. I've got the same type of hubs on one of my IIA's but to tell you the truth, I don't know what type they are either. The truck is on my mother's farm, about 25 miles away. I'll take a look the next time I'm out that way. Leaking oil.. from the outside? or inside the brake drum? If it's leaking from inside the drum, I.E., behind the hub, then a new seal is in order. Probably a new distance piece (the sleeve that the seal rides on) too. If it's on the outside of the wheel, then it's probably a leak between the free-wheel hub mechanism and the hub. There's a very thin gasket there. Unless the free-wheel hub itself is leaking in which case there are probably o-ring seals or some such nonsense inside. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 05:48:57 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 06:44:08 EDT Subject: Subject: Names List Final Status: RO For the last time, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 am,when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 @6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post finalresults no later than Wed, Sept. 14 e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to use the internet mail address 1.) Land Rover Owners Club 2.) Rover nets 3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway 4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) 5.) RoversNet 6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection 7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network 8.) Rovers in the Ether 9.) Roving through the Ether... 10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. 11.) low-box net surfers 12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International 13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway 14.) Raving Rovers! 15.) The Net Rovers 16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn 17.) LROC of the Internet 18.) The Wired Rovers 19.) Space Rovers 20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers 21.) LROC of the Internet 22.) CyberLand Rovers 23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) 24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) 25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) 26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club 27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } 28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or 29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? 30 ) Car List Rejects 31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 05:36:02 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 11:35:07 UNDEFINED Status: RO Be seeing you all. I am unsubscribing since I dont have the time to plough through the digest, along with all the extra hassle of replying to articles. Pity. I've had some good info in the past. Cheers to all Andy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 06:17:56 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 07:15:25 EST To: Steven M Denis , lro@team.net Subject: Re[2]: crumple zones Content-Length: 700 Status: RO Oops, I forgot to discuss inertia. But as a poorly trained physicist (and a well trained marketer) I learned to vary only one input -- you know, a frictionless, colorless, airless, gravityless, costless, Lucasless world... Given inertia or momentum, would you rather your car crumple around you allowing a slow deceleration or *it* decelerating suddenly while you continue *your* forward movement? The weight/momentum of your car is a separate issue...Forget the guy in the Fiesta, he's toast either way! Too bad for him... Rolling, Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com workroom (noun): A place to do stuff your SO won't let you do in the kitchen. A place to store stuff you'll need RSN. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 08:14:35 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 09:03:11 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Craftsman Tool Club To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO For our North American netters, Craftsman (Sears Roebuck & Co.) has a free "club" you can join for discounts and coupons on Craftsman tools. Call 1-800-682-8691. It's an automated line and they'll ask for your name, address, and phone. The friend that turned me on to it said the discounts are pretty good. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 09:11:58 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 94 9:57:14 EDT From: Fred Dushin To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: lromail volume Status: RO For general consumption: using the standard mail utility, you can invoke vi from within the mailer by typying ~v on a fresh line. That should run vi with what you have edited thus far in the buffer. A :wq or :x will quit vi when you are done and put back into the mail editor (ed?), from which you can ^D to escape/ send, etc. Also, a ~r (I think--maybe it's ~f--Can't remember) on a fresh line with a file name, as in ~r myFile.txt will insert/read in a file at that point. Sorry to add to the traffic, but this might be of use to lro netters. Fred Dushin From burns@cisco.com Thu Sep 8 09:19:38 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: LULU has a new set of shoes... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 8 Sep 94 7:21:10 PDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9408111432.AA22905@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Aug 11, 94 9:32 am Status: RO Here is a real rover owner... all this work just to get the rims scrached, and dirty at the Colorado Rally. I am impressed. Roy, one other question I need to ask, whiched leaked more, the canvas water bag, or the radiator. And do they both operate on the same theory.... Russ > > LULU is ready for tall cotton: > > WAS: 15" rims with bias, recaps. > IS: 16" rims with 750x16 radials. > > WOW, what a difference a day makes. RIDE, HANDLING > NOISE-LEVEL, GROUND-CLEARANCE, APPEARANCE, STEERING > are all an order of magnitude better. I would > recommend this conversion to any serious LRO. > > So, the rest of the story is: > > 1. rims bought used in UK for 25-pounds for qty=5. > 2. shipped to US via air freight (ok, so this isn't > the best way, but I wanted to find out how things > worked). 145-pounds for shipping and packing. > (but there were other things on the pallat -- say, > 100-pounds for the rims). Currency conversion applies > here and also to #1. > 3. gas, 1/2 days vacation, $15 customs fees, $15 airport > handling fee cause I live 120 miles from the airport. > 4. Aircraft stripper ($19.95 for a gallon) to take off about > 4 coats of NATO green. > 5. About 3 evenings to sand blast them down to bare metal and > hammer out a few dings. > 6. I galvanized them. Steve (notajeep) said "do it" as I recall. > And Mark (stl) worried about metal warpage. I think they > both were right. 4 turned out great, and the 5th has > serious wobble. (but it might have been there all along). > OK, $60 for the galvanizing (at $0.35 per pound) but I had > some other things in there -- say $45 for the rims. Probably > should include $20 for gas to the galvanizing place. The rims > sure looked fine when they came back. So-o-o shiny, I thought > I had aluminum rims. I was tempted to put them on that way for > effect, but, no. I knocked down the nubs with a carbide > bit in an air grinder and put about $10 of etching acid on them > The acid turned 'em a dull grey. Still looked good and > thought about mounting them that way, but no. > 7. Masked 'em and painted the front only Limestone white. Two coats > of self etching primer plus 3 wet coats of Dupont Centari. Used > an eyedropper to get paint into the cracks. The back and > inside (where the tube is) is still dull grey. > 8. Put a small bead of silicone on the back in the crack. > 9. Know a man in the tire business -- He got me 4 Kelly Safari > 750x16LT radial tires (someone on the net said he was happy with > them) for $98 each and I put radial tubes in 'em for $8.50 > each more. > 10.Am afraid to go thru the final math. > > Anyway, thats how I did it. A couple of days ago, there was > an offer for 4 16" rims with tires for $400 (shipping extra) > and that sounds like an interesting offer -- but that's > hindsite. > > LULU is now an interstate cruiser and these rims/tires should > take a couple of hours off of the Utah trip. > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > > - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) > - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) > - 80 MGB - xx > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 09:50:54 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: Re: quick brake fluid question... Date: Thu, 08 Sep 94 07:46:00 PDT Encoding: 15 TEXT Status: RO > Speaking of brake fluid, I have this nice virgin hydraulic system > before me in the little earth pig. Now to fill with LMA, or go > for the silicon stuff... > > Rgds, > > Dixon About 2 years ago, a couple of local club members went the silicon route after a complete brake overhaul, and are still VERY happy with the results. Anyone else have experience with this? John Rostykus john@data-io.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 10:14:37 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: Movie Alert! To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 8 Sep 94 10:11:09 CDT In-Reply-To: <9409062220.tn431780@aol.com>; from "JFisk1120@aol.com" at Sep 6, 94 10:20 pm Status: RO Jan Fisk said: > I'm still upset that Blockbuster does not carry "The Gods Must be Crazy"!!! Odd, I rented it from Blockbuster here in St. Louis back in January or February. Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 13:01:15 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 10:53:21 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@team.net, ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Subject: wading plug X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1352 Status: RO > As for the wading plug. I don't have one. I've never had > one. Until just before the trip willl Bill I'd never heard of > the damn thing. Now I know. Something else to buy. Maybee I'll > just take a piece of rubber and make a temporary stopper to plug > the hole. (Assuming I can get the clutch/pressure plate/flywheel > to break free) > > Benjamin Smith > ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu > 1972 Land Rover SIII 88 that once moving can't stop (with out > dying. Maybe I should rename it "shark") The wading plug is a standard US pipe tread (NPT) as are all of the transmission fill plugs. At least on my '64 SIIa. just go to the hardware store and buy one. There is supposed to be a bracket* attached to one of the studs at the bottom of the bell housing. It has a hole tapped to store the plug in when it's not plugging the hole. These are most often missing, thrown in the trash by some mechanic working to the standard repair times, most likley. Locate or make one, it's a good idea, keeps the plug right there where you need it. Anybody going to the All British Car Show in Palo Alto on Sun. 11th? Regards, Bill G. PS; I don't remember seeing this bracket* listed in RN or AB cats. They would know about it if you asked. There is a picture of it in one of the service manuals. I will give detail dimensions if requested. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 13:15:34 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 12:30:58 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Rattles and Rumbling revisited Status: RO Joseph Broach writes: >because its worse in 2wd/hubs locked than any other combunation. Methinks it's the front prop shaft u-joints or sleeve. The shaft on my 88 came without a Zerk fitting on the sleeve (the factory manual is quite specific about over filling) with the idea that if you don't see a grease nipple, you wont fill it. Any way...mine eventually developed a bit of play and was replace with a used unit. Prop shafts can be disassembled...but pay particular attention to the fibre (toothed) washer inside the retaining collar. It is the *ONE* part that is no longer available on this continent anywhere (ABP, RN, BR, etc.) at any price. If yours has torn, it can be carefully super-glued back together. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 13:08:14 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 12:31:27 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Hub ADVICE Status: RO The hubs with the twin bars are "Dualmatics" as I have them on mine. At last year's ABP meet, it scrounged *A BUNCH* of hub bits and pieces from the parts dump truck. Each shaft has a $.10 O-ring inside and that may be the source of the leak (as mine is doing right now). The O-ring is available at any hardware store. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 13:16:43 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 12:31:34 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Quick brake fluid question... Status: RO Dixon writes: >Speaking of brake fluid, I have this nice virgin hydraulic system before >me in the little earth pig. Now to fill with LMA or go for the silicon(e) >stuff... Go with the silicone...though expensive ($8 US) a pint, it's superior to the Castrol glycerine-based stuff as it is not hygroscopic...it won't suck moisture out of the air and all those mud bogs ya'll flog through. This is especially important if the vehicle sits up for the winter. Silicone retards rust/corrosion in the cylinders as well. Other than the expense, a better mousetrap. Just be sure the system is absolutely clean. I filled my old (but cleaned) reservoir with 95% isopropyl alcohol and pumped it through the lines (wheel cylinders were disassembled) then blew everything clear with compressed air and rebuilt the master. Rebuilt the entire brake system (including the dual master) for less than $22...but the fluid cost me $28! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 13:24:50 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Holy Rovers To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 09:36:18 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 384 Status: RO Getting back to the topic of celebrity Rovers, I was watching CNN the other night and they were reporting a Pope tour to Africa (I think). Anyway, the Pope-mobile that they showed was a white 110 pickup with the bullet proof Pope-enclosure on the back. I don't know if this counts since he isn't driving the thing, but hey--it's the Pope! Morgan Hannaford U.C. Berkeley '69 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 12:40:58 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 13:32:29 -0400 (EDT) From: "Michel Rossey (EC)" Subject: mailing list To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Dear Sir, I am very interested in beeing part of your mailing list. I do not own a Land Rover, I own a Toyota, but always admired The LR and maby one day I will be able to afford one. Thank you Mike rossey@suntan.eng.usf.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 13:20:44 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 14:07:58 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Land Rover Ads To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Cc: jumpingfrog@delphi.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Recently Jon Humphrey posted a note on a company specializing in old car ads. I responded expressing interest in Land Rover ads, specifically the ad that goes "At 60 MPH the only sound you can hear is the roar of the engine". Well, I received that ad and more. About 42 more (they send all the ads on approval - pay for what you keep + $2.90 postage and send back the rest). At first I wanted to keep them all then realized the B+W ads were $2.00 each and the 5 or 6 color ads were $3.00 each - that sure adds up. I wound up keeping about a quarter of them including an ad that touts the usefulness of Land Rovers in bank robberys and other criminal activities. Very amusing. The best ads were the humorous American ads which are not included in the book "Advertising Land Rover". Now I need to get some kind of binder to store them in. Geez, this stuff sure is a sickness. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com >> From: Bill McBride Subject: Original Magazine Ads for Sale Date: Sun, 7 Aug 94 20:22:26 -0500 We offer original magazine ads for vintage cars, trucks, etc. to you on approval. Here's how it works: you email us your specific wants (Example: 1965 Imperial ads; 1937 Packard ads, 8cyl. only; Pontiac ads 1946-48, etc.) We send you a packet of original ads from Life, POst, Car&Driver, Sports Illustrated, etc. that meet your needs. Ads are priced $3.00/color page; 2.00/ black- and-white page. Postage is $2.90 per shipment, U.S.A.; extra for international shipments. On receipt of our packet, you select the ads you want, return the ones you don't along with a check or moneyorder or Visa or Mastercard # & expiration date for the value of the ads you keep. We've been offering this service to the Old Car hobby since 1976 but this is our first adventure on Internet. Hope it works. We ask that returns be made within three weeks of our mailing date. We need your postal address as all shipments are made via Priority Mail for speed and safety. Please: no requests for lists of ads we have for sale. Our stock of over 175,000 ads makes list-making impossible. We will, however, accept your list of ads you already have and send you only ones you don't have listed. By the way, Corvette ads are not sold on approval; we send a catalog once a year; prices run $8.00/color page and $5.00/black & white page for Corvette ads only. Let's hear from you-all about your ad needs from 1899-present. Best, McBride Auto Ads, 585 Prospect Avenue, West Hartford CT 06105. >> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 13:31:15 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 11:25:29 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Portland, etc. To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Made it to Portland with a scare when the lead came off the ignition coil, one ripped up tire (dunno how that happened), and a stop just south of Ashland to replace the rocker arm cover gasket which was leaking, oh, maybe a quart every 150 miles or so. Now, in Seattle, the handle for the right door latch broke (temporary fix with super glue). So far, so good. Portland was great. Did anyone come up with a final count? All I can say is that my Land-Rover hasn't seen so many of its own kind since it left the factory some 28 or so years ago. Wish I could make it to the meet in California this weekend but I won't be back down there in time. Just voted for the group name but my choice isn't listed. I rather like land-rover-owners@team.net, the alternative to lro@team.net (isn't it?). Net Rovers isn't too bad. I can see the t-shirt now, Net Rovers (and in somewhat smaller print) land-rover-owners@team.net. Oh well... Having been forced to the digest version of the list because netcom is having mail problems, I'm still not sure I like it since it makes it a bit more akward but I will stick with this 'till netcom gets their act together and then probably try to get back to the real time version of the list. Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From ccray Thu Sep 8 13:56:35 1994 Subject: Speaking of Hubs... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 13:56:35 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1061 Status: RO Speaking of hubs: I have qty=2 Fairy locking hubs of which one has the inner cluster dog-thing broken. I can get this part from RN, but it costs about $65. Tough to rationalize. So, anyone out there in NET-land: 1. Have one Fairy hub they would sell me. 2. Have some Fairy hub parts they would sell me -- I could get more specific on the part. 3. Have only one Fairy hub and want to buy mine. The bad thing is that I bought the Fairy hub rebuild kit ($7est) long ago and feel somewhat committed on this course of action. (so no Fairy flame-ing needed). If so, communicate with me in private and we can make a deal... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 14:02:36 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Speaking of Hubs... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 13:56:35 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1060 Status: RO Speaking of hubs: I have qty=2 Fairy locking hubs of which one has the inner cluster dog-thing broken. I can get this part from RN, but it costs about $65. Tough to rationalize. So, anyone out there in NET-land: 1. Have one Fairy hub they would sell me. 2. Have some Fairy hub parts they would sell me -- I could get more specific on the part. 3. Have only one Fairy hub and want to buy mine. The bad thing is that I bought the Fairy hub rebuild kit ($7est) long ago and feel somewhat committed on this course of action. (so no Fairy flame-ing needed). If so, communicate with me in private and we can make a deal... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 14:07:31 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 14:58:35 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Rubbers For Bill & Ben To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Hi! Ben and I need a couple of rubbers. No, not the glow in the dark extra ribbed kind, but the kind that envelop the distributor and keep the water out. ABP used to sell a kit with a distributor cover, coil cover, and spark plug covers for $12 but no longer stocks them. Rover's North said they don't carry them but to use a bead of silicone around the base of the cap to keep the water out (a useful idea). Dixon was kind enough to check the Merseyside catalog for me and came up dry also (at least dryer than Ben and I this weekend). If anyone has any leads/prices we'd really appreciate it. We both are responsible off-roaders and need those rubbers to practice safe wading. Thanks. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com (Mr. Denis, from the looks of the photos of you with the hood up after the water hole at the reservoir run at the ABP ralley a few years ago, I KNOW that you didn't use a rubber) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 14:28:14 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 10:45:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: The Man Who Would Be Mechanic Status: RO At the Portland meet,on Sunday, many of the Land-Rover owners were off enjoying the off-road course most of the day. I was stuck at my swap-meet space most of the day and did not even get over to watch. I had our Land-Rover in the swap space, buried behind a pile of parts. Due to the level of interest in the Rover (none of which has yet yielded a sale), I was reluctant to remove the beast from its pen. Eventually, though, Bennett (my son) persuaded me to extricate the dog from the kennel and let him do the course. After a while, Bennett came walking back, looking forlorn. He said the Rover had died for no apparent reason, just as he was about to attack a hill; it would not restart. I went, with Bennett, to the dead Rover to see what I could do. I couldn't start it either but noticed that the fuel gauge read "empty." This was surprising, as I didn't think that we had done that much driving. Nonetheless, this, I concluded was the problem. So we just hooked up the towbar behind the pickup and headed out. We later put in some petrol and tried to restart the engine; it still would not start. When we got home, I started going through routine tests and was puzzled as to what was the problem. It acted as though the timing was all fouled up. After checking the basics and finding that it was getting fuel, was correctly timed, that the points and plugs were correctly gapped and clean, and that there was spark at the plugs, I feared the worst. Got to be the valve timing; the timing chain has skipped a cog or two. DREAD. Bennett asked if I had checked the plug wires to see if they were in the right places. I said no, I had considered that but, if no one had messed with them and it ran before, how could that be a possibility? He said what about that guy who was trying to help him get it started? What? Yeah, the guy who said he was a mechanic but didn't seem like one (driving late-model Range Rover) WAS fiddling with the plug wires. No shit? I looked and sure enough they were thoroughly scrambled!! Got them into their rightful places; the engine started right up! Huzzah!! So who was this "mechanic"? We saw a preview for an action movie the other night and Bennett said there's the guy who tried to help me with the Land-Rover! We appreciate his efforts to help (really) but maybe he needs a little more coaching before trying out for another "mechanic" role. Hell, made the trip more interesting and no harm done. Good that this episode forced me to dust off my rusty mechanic's skills. Been too long. But that is going to change. Bennett's taking two hours a day of advanced auto this year in high school and we are going to do lots of Rover projects. Maybe even tackle the Austin Champ soon. By the way, for any of you who are curious about the Champ, the September issue of _Land-Rover World_ has an article supposedly comparing the Series I Land-Rover with its military rivals, namely the Champ and the Jeep MB. Nice pictures but very minimal content. Had hoped that LRW would have more beefy content than LRO (always a bit fluffy, I thought) but so far, I am not that impressed. It's still early in the game, so will wait and see. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 14:40:52 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 15:33:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Clutch, so far no luck To: Benjamin Allan Smith , Benjamin Allan Smith Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409080358.AA106346683@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The clutch will require some real muscle to get it loose...try 2nd or 3rd with the clutch pedal stuck down with a stick....kinda go out and *drive* the beast....foot to the floor up a hill has worked wonders for me..(actually,with the 109,I'm *always* foot to the floor.....) the wading plug is the cheapest thing on the vehicle ....go to the hardware store and get an 1/8 inch pipe plug...presto! one wading plug! 29 cents..... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 17:50:09 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 10:00:13 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz To: Landy Subject: Re: Thanks, Helper Springs and Movies Content-Length: 599 Content-Type: text Status: RO R. Pierce Reid writes: >Finally... My add-a-leaf kits arrived last night and I will be installing them >over the weekend. ... >I'll let everyone know how the project goes parts ordered, etc. This looks like >an easy suspension modification. I plan on picking up some film and >photographing it, too, so I may pot together an Aluminum Workhorse tech piece. I wonder what this will do to the vehicle roll over angle. Do some tests and let us know eh? Cheers, Hugh. (Just kidding about the tests. Do you need the extra height for better tyre clearance, in which case what tyres are you running?) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 17:19:59 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 17:11:27 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rubbers For Bill & Ben To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO For those who want rubbers for the distributor and coil, surgical gloves do a great job. The five fingers pass the four coil wires and the centre lead. Condoms do well on the coil. I actuall have the real kit now, but I have run the other and it workks just fine. Fact is, the real think is a pin to get the wires through and into the cap. On the rubber glove, you cut the fingers the length of the coil tower and then a bit longer so you can use the waxed nylon string used to tiewrap electrical wires. If this is not available, use nylon tiewraps available at Radio Shack etc. Dave VE4PN That should be pain not pin--can't edit this thing :-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 18:52:02 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 10:56:37 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE), land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rattles and Rumbling revisited Content-Length: 400 Content-Type: text Status: RO >The shaft on my 88 >came without a Zerk fitting on the sleeve (the factory manual is quite >specific about over filling) Ooo, what does it say about over filling? I was working on my prop shafts not so long ago and just stuffed them both full o grease. wonderingly, Hugh (The Haynes manual doesn't mention anything about it. One of these days I probably will invest in the factory manuals...) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 19:36:43 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 20:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: carb question To: s20845@hp.rmc.ca, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"s20845@hp.rmc.ca" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Kurt inquires... > I now have a solex on my 62 IIa 88. I'm not happy with the fuel > consumption. Has anyone heard of conversions to Rochesters? Any > ideas of a model number or a donor vehicle that might have one? > Any comments on performance, fuel consumption or potential > problems with such a conversion? > Rochester carb is (or was) a pretty common conversion. I put one on mine because the zenith or whatever was on there made a much better doorstop than a carb! I believe the Rochester you need is from about a mid 1960's Chevy but you will need to re-jet it with a smaller jet - sorry, I don't really know what size. There is a brass tag on the carb with the numbers "1013029" "J7" "30" stamped on it - for what it's worth. The only problem you may run into is rigging the throttle linkage to work right. I have three Rochesters.. one on the truck and two in the parts bin and all three have differant linkage setups. You're supposed to get a little more power with the Rochester, or so I've been told. On *good* days I got maybe 15 MPG but even on bad days it always runs better than the previous carb did. Good luck with it. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 20:40:06 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 20:27:37 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: carb question To: LANDROVER@delphi.com Cc: s20845@hp.rmc.ca, lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <01HGVS0O8XA09AVSDB@delphi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Subject : Tailgate Has anyone tried the swing gate conversion Rovers North showed on page 6 of their winter 94 flyer? I have the tailgate but I wondered if I bought the hinges and latch if it would make a good unit. I often like to keep the hard top on just before it gets warm enough to use the canvas top, and a swing gate would allow me to leave the top open. I presently have the delux station wagon door on mine. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 22:28:47 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 17:44:44 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com, land-rover-owner@stratus.com, hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: Rattles and Rumbling revisited X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 710 Status: RO > Ooo, what does it say about over filling? I was working on my prop shafts > not so long ago and just stuffed them both full o grease. > > wonderingly, > Hugh > > (The Haynes manual doesn't mention anything about it. One of these days I > probably will invest in the factory manuals...) > > Hitting a good bump in the road with the sliding spline section of the drive shaft *packed* with grease could damage; the shaft, the diff, or the transfer case. The shaft must get shorter when the axel goes up, but if the space where the spline slides into is full of grease, there is a little hole for the excess grease to escape, but a hard bump, the grease can't get out quick enough, so... crunch. R, bg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 8 22:39:11 1994 Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 23:30:31 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Sweepstakes w/ Defender 90 To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hello all, I just opened my October edition of OUTSIDE magazine and on page 171 found the River Wild Sweepstakes. Mindyou, I never bother to waste the $0.29 to enter these damn thing; but in this case.... "If you think you can handle a vacation on The Rive Wild, then take one" Universal Studios. The River Wild Sweepstakes = grand prize: one 1994 Land Rover Deender 90 in bright double AA yellow plus a 5 day Grand Canyon whitewater rafting trip for two. Sweepstakes open to residents of U.S. 18 yrs or older. For a copy of official rules, send self-addressed stamped envelope to "The River Wild" Rules, P.O. Box 56436, Sherman Oaks CA 91413 Mail entries to PO BOx 6044, Sherman Oakes, CA 91413. {It does'nt say if a blank card can be sent in rather than the card} Drawing on 11/15/94. This seems to be a promotion for Hign Seas Adventure on the Discovery Channel, Sept 23-25 beginning at 8 p.m. {I don't have cable so someone will have to post if they have any Rovers on the show} Standard disclaimer -- I don't have any relation to the above; except it's contained in my copy of the magizine etc.... In case I don't win, I'm still looking to find a Diesel ?. If you run across one, please let me know. Andrew/ Dayton Ohio 87 RR and one mixed Grey Hound/Great Dane. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 00:46:29 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: clutch is free Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 22:42:04 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO Well, I got my clutch freed up today. But as with everything I feel like I took two steps forward and one step back. When I went out to start the Rover for an another attempt to break the clutch free, I found that there was no resistance on the clutch peddle. The master cylinder turned out to be empty (brand new brake cylinder!) so i put in new fluid and bled the clutch. Seem ok now, but we'll see what happens. Maybe the slave cylinder is dying. So a set off by coasting down the driveway and into the street. I got it into gear and onto a quite street. Then I started sudden accelerations followed by slamming on the breaks while in first gear low, 4WD and the clutch peddle depressed. After the 3rd cycle, the engine reved and there was not increase in speed. So when the rusted flywheel and pressure plate let go there was no bang or anything. It was a smooth transition. Thanks to all for their suggestions. I was almost read to tie the Rover to a tree and then take off. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover SIII 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 00:46:36 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Land Rovers in the Movies Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Thu, 08 Sep 1994 22:43:24 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO egarding Land Rovers in the movies: "A Far Away Place" ( Disney movie about 2 teen agers and a bushman who attempt to cross the Karhari Desert) has a number of Land Rovers in it. As for the Gods Must be Crazy II, the only cast member from the first movie was the bushman. I don't recall any Land Rovers. I found the first movie to be more entertaining. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover SIII 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 03:18:46 1994 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 1994 23:21:01 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org, M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Status: RO On the subject of lamp guards, My 109" came with them covering all the little indicator lamps. The two on the back are now rather twisted and bent. Were it not for them, it would be the lamps themselves that are twisted and bent. As for the bullbars, I dunno if they serve any purpose, but they do look cool. (Not that I'd *pay* for them, mind you, but looking doesn't cost anything.) In regards to safety in general, I agree that in a lot of ways, we (as a society, in the US) have been over-protected to the point where we don't know danger until it smacks us in the face. In the case of the truck falling on the woman, I'll bet that if there had been barriers and such around the area, she would have stayed away, but not seeing them, she *assumed* that it was safe. She *should* have looked at the truck and seen that the area should be kept clear. Not her fault, mind you, but society's. It's the same reason people die in the wilderness all the time -- they've been so protected, they don't know how to stay alive. Like that couple that got stuck in the blizzard in the Black Rock desert a couple of winters ago. The main road (Hwy 80 -- a *major* does-not-close cross-country highway) was closed, so they decided to take a *backroad* to get to where they were going. Got stuck (of course), nearly died (awww), lost body parts to frostbite (oh well!), and became heroes (huh?). Even I (and remember, I was born and bred in The City - San Francisco. My parent's idea of camping was a picnic in golden gate park) wouldn't have been that stupid -- because I wasn't prepared or knowledgeable enough. I recognize the danger in all that. Mud puddles are all the 4-wheeling I do without Scotty or other *experienced* people around. Most people don't have that concept of danger, however. Makes you wonder how they stay alive. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 03:36:11 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Holy Rovers To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU (Morgan Hannaford) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 02:31:14 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409081636.JAA02942@bugtree.Berkeley.EDU> from "Morgan Hannaford" at Sep 8, 94 09:36:18 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1735 Status: RO Morgan Hannaford writes: < Getting back to the topic of celebrity Rovers, I was < watching CNN the other night and they were reporting a < Pope tour to Africa (I think). Anyway, the Pope-mobile < that they showed was a white 110 pickup with the bullet < proof Pope-enclosure on the back. I don't know if this < counts since he isn't driving the thing, but hey--it's < the Pope! TIME magazine on 20 Sept. 1993 (p.21) did a small blurb on Popemobiles. Here's the full text: One Church, One Pope--and 20 Popemobiles Vatican garages house six of the four-ton, bullet-proof Popemobiles. And a surprising 14 other heavy-duty papal vehicles stand at the ready around the world. (The one John Paul rode through Denver last month was shipped from Mexico.) Land Rover manufactured the first Popemobile for his visit to Britain in 1982, shortly after the Pontiff survived an assassin's bullet. Since then, almost everywhere John Paul went, new Popemobiles were sure to appear--manufactured and generally donated by Renault, Peugeot, GM, Toyota and Mercedes Benz, among others. Last week, on his trip to the Baltic states (his 61st foray out of the Holy See), took along his Mercedes and Land Rover models. Six vehicles are illustrated, including "Nigeria, 1982"-- a yellow Series III (including the normally galvanized parts) with a white cab top and white stripe down the mid section of bonnet and grille and bumper. < Morgan Hannaford < U.C. Berkeley < '69 88" p.s.: is it (the '69 88") pale green? think I saw it near campus while passing through 2 summers ago. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 04:22:21 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Fri, 09 Sep 1994 05:17:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Rubbers For Bill & Ben To: maloney@wings.attmail.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"maloney@wings.attmail.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Bill is all wet... > Ben and I need a couple of rubbers. No, not the glow in the dark extra > ribbed kind, but the kind that envelop the distributor and keep the water Sure, sure Bill.. You sure that water was only 1 foot deep??? Just a thought here.. You *do* have the fan shrouds mounted, don't you?? > (Mr. Denis, from the looks of the photos of you with the hood up after the > water hole at the reservoir run at the ABP ralley a few years ago, I KNOW > that you didn't use a rubber) To tell you the truth, I think Steve lost a wire to his electric fuel pump in that soup. However, lot's of us took on a bit too much water (and MUD) in the air cleaners. How DO you spell DEEP anyway?? Cheers ;-} Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) blub-blub-blub-blub-cough-sputter-fizz-blub From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 05:39:09 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 06:34:17 EDT Subject: Names List Final-Clarification Status: RO FWIW, land-rover-owners@team.net, is the same as lro@team.net the second is an abbreviation, just as P.O. Box is for Post Office Box Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 05:40:39 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 06:36:03 EDT Subject: Names List Final Status: RO Please note: land-rover-owners@team.net, is the same as lro@team.net the second is an abbreviation, just as P.O. Box is for Post Office Box For the last time, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 am,when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 @6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post final results no later than Wed, Sept. 14 e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to use the internet mail address 1.) Land Rover Owners Club 2.) Rover nets 3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway 4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) 5.) RoversNet 6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection 7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network 8.) Rovers in the Ether 9.) Roving through the Ether... 10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. 11.) low-box net surfers 12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International 13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway 14.) Raving Rovers! 15.) The Net Rovers 16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn 17.) LROC of the Internet 18.) The Wired Rovers 19.) Space Rovers 20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers 21.) LROC of the Internet 22.) CyberLand Rovers 23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) 24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) 25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) 26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club 27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } 28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or 29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? 30 ) Car List Rejects 31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net/land-rover-owners@team.net Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 10:58:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Quick brake fluid question... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 09:10:07 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes: > Go with the silicone...though expensive ($8 US) a pint, it's superior to > the Castrol glycerine-based stuff as it is not hygroscopic... Looks like this may be the weekend task, though first we are going to have a little conclave and see why the little earth pig went from running beautiful one day, to where it won't co-operate at all the next. What is the story if you don't entirely clean the system of one before changing to the other? Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 10:27:37 1994 Date: 09 Sep 94 11:15:23 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: Springs Status: RO Hugh: I am currently running a set of 7.5 x 16 Michelins, however, when they wear out, I want to switch to the current military radials that really do fill up the fender wells. I am not sure what the maker, etc. is, but my dad has them on his 88, and if he drove it aggressively, they would scrape. I also have a winch on the front and would like to be able to carry a better load in back (though I am trying to engineer a "quick-Release" for the winch so i can take it off easily.. it really flattens out the front springs. I know it will ultimately put shorter life on my fron wheel-bearings, too, to I would like to only put it on when necessary. The spring maker claims only a 2" lift, and I really don't want to go any higher... frankly, I am not looking to jack the vehicle up, just firm up the springs some and give a "little" more clearance. I tend to be a very conservative off-road driver, so likely won't get a chance to test the roll characteristics... most of my off-roading is on muddy logging roads and on fields where I can avoid serious cross slopes. Cheers, RPR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 10:31:06 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 08:25:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dma@joker.ho.att.com (Douglas M Anderson) From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Land-Rover World Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO >Granville, > >In your posting to the Land-Rover-Owner List on September 8 you >mentioned a publication called _Land-Rover World_. Could you >send me an address or a phone number for subscription information? > >I am brand new to the list (I heard about it on rec.autos.vw !) >and don't have a Land Rover yet. I hope to do something about >that soon and am trying to absorb as much information as I can >as quickly as I can. > >Doug Anderson >dma@joker.ho.att.com > Will have to bring the address from home and will try to do it by Monday. I will also bring the address, etc. for _Land-Rover Owner International_ which is also a (rather more established publication). Be aware that both are expensive to subscribe to (because they come from England). You can get the latest copies from British Pacific in Burbank, CA (800)544-4133. BP is a good source of parts for Land-Rovers (along with Rovers North of Westford, VT, the source for genuine parts--for the most part advisable to stick with genuine Land-Rover parts). You might also be able to get the mags from Rovers North (802)879-0032 (I think). Get catalogues from these folks and look at the prices, too. Would advise you to read this LRO list for a while before you jump into buying a Land-Rover. See what problems people have and how they deal with them. It will give you a better idea of what to look for when you buy. They can be expensive to buy and to keep up but parts are much cheaper than for most older cars and they are generally easier to work on than most. The Land-Rover is not the most reliable vehicle you can buy but probably the most durable and repairable. Lots of fun and remarkably capable off-road. Generally slow and clumsy on-road. High- maintenance. TeriAnn Wakeman, an active of the LRO list (which I call Rover-Net), says you've got to be seriously strange to own and drive a Land-Rover. If you are not that way when you get one, you will either become that way or sell it. I would add that you might, instead of selling it, let it sit and rot. I have seen a lot of people do that, too. If this profile fits you and you are not scared of the smell of 90-weight, welcome aboard! The above comments refer to old Land-Rovers. If you are in a position to get a new one, of course you are looking at a whole different matter. It'll still help to be strange! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 23:29:50 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 09:02:59 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Palo Alto meet 9/11 Status: RO After reading about how much fun the Portland meet was, I can't wait for the Palto Alo meet this sunday. Only trouble is, does anybody have directions? And Time? Thanks in advance... I'll be there with a 109" 2-door, Roof rack, and plates that say "INDY 1". Hope to see y'all there! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 11:26:57 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Land Rover Ads To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) (maloney) Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 12:17:32 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "maloney" at Sep 08, 94 2:07 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > goes "At 60 MPH the only sound you can hear is the roar of the engine". Well, > Bill Hmmm. I have an original of one of these, and a few more.......wonder what they're worth? do I hear a hundred????? rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 11:16:54 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 11:05:55 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: New Rover outfit in Maine? Status: RO I was looking through the September Hemmings and I saw a lot of advertisements for a Rover place up in Maine (it has some name like the "Great blah blah blah") . I have seen some in the past too. They are also advertising coil sprung frames. Anybody have any insight on this group. I would like to add them to the RoverWeb. Greg RoverWeb - the Land Rover World Wide Web http://whitman.gar.utexas.edu/roverweb/roverweb.html From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 13:22:48 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: OVLR Stuff... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 09 Sep 94 12:23:48 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO As there are a number of Ottawa Valley Land Rovers members on this mailing list and they will not have a chance to get to the next social gathering, nor probably receive the newsletter in time (Thanks to Communist Post, Royal Snail, and whatever the US Postal system is called these days) the following message is probably the fastest and best way to convey the information. Rgds, Dixon ------------------------------------------------------------------- OVLR will be offering a selection of T-Shirts, Sweatshirts, Golf Shirts, and childrens t-shirts this month. Samples of the various items will be available to be seen at the September Social Gathering at the Prescott on Monday, September 19th. Orders will be taken then by Christine Rose on a no-deposit -- honour system basis. You can rest assured that what you order will be what you get. Christine will be doing a phone around subsequent to the Social Gathering to take any additional orders. If you wish to save her the time and effort of phoning you, please phone her at (613) 256-1598. The order for the items will be made on September 28th, with delivery approximately two weeks later. At the latest, the items will be available at the October Social Gathering at the Prescott, Monday October 17th. The following items will have the club logo and Ottawa Valley Land Rovers printed on them. If you are not sure what this looks like, lust look at the top of the first page of the newsletter. The Land Rover will be to the left of the club name. The available items: T-Shirts: Made of 100% cotton in a natural cotton off-white colour. The Club logo will be in dark green. Available sizes are Small, Medium, Large, and Extra Large. Cost is $16.00 Sweatshirts: (Brand is "No-Fiction") Made of 100% cotton, they will be hunters green in colour with the club logo in limestone. Available sizes are Small, Medium, Large, and Extra Large. Cost is $35.00 Golf Shirts: Made of 100% cotton, they are a three button straight sleeve design (no ribbing on the sleeve). There is no breast pocket available with 100% cotton shirts. A 50-50 poly-cotton mix does have a pocket available. They will be hunters green in colour with the club logo in limestone. Available sizes are Small, Medium, Large, and Extra Large. Cost is $25.00 Childrens t-shirts: Made of a 50-50% poly-cotton mixture, they will be hunters green in colour with the club logo in limestone. Available sizes are Small (6-10), Medium (10-12), Large (12-14). Cost is $10.00 The quality of these items is very good to exceptional. Christine has been in this business for years and has found a good supplier with good quality items. Pre-orders are a must if you wish to get what you actually want. Surplus items ordered will be in set quantities and your size or choice may not be available for very long. Note: Orders via the internet should be addressed to Christine Rose at my account: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 12:41:21 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 10:35:30 PDT From: Vance Chin To: jory@figment.mit.edu Subject: British car meet at El Camino Park in Palo Alto California Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO The All British Meet will be held at El Camino Park in Palo Alto. It is on the east side of El Camino Real across from the Stanford Shopping mall. To get there take the University Ave exit from 101 going west and make a right turn going north on El Camino Real. Fee is $15 for each car and includes a mug. Hopefully Peter Wong will be there with his 109 ambulance and Dom Dias will be there with his Camel Trophy 110. See all you west coasters there. Vance Chin From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 17:25:26 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 15:18:40 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: landrover@delphi.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Dual-Matic hubs Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO I have had some experience with the old Dual-Matic hubs which I would like to relate. As someone already mentioned, you have to be careful not to have one lever engaged and the other lever not engaged. That condition is probably what caused our problem. The first Land-Rover we bought had dualmatics. Eventually, we noticed that the front-wheel drive was not working too well, sort of skipping or slipping. We tore the hubs apart and discovered that the drive piece (cast metal--I'm not sure what kind) was cracked. It apparently was spreading under load and thus its inside splines were slipping on the stub-axle splines. The result, by the time we discovered it, was a ruined stub axle. Replacing one of those babies is no picnic, by the way, as you have to take the u-joint apart and reassemble with packing in all those little needle rollers. While fixing that problem, we installed new Fairey hubs (which I have moved from one Rover to another and am still running; I like them. I later had another pair of Dual-Matics and found that those had machined steel drive pieces and were much stronger. If you have dualmatics, make sure that your drive pieces are the strong ones; otherwise, get rid of them! Another problem with these hubs is that the levers tend to not latch in place too well after a while and go flopping around; also a bad situation. In general, I rather think these were about the poorest hubs for Land-Rovers. At least of the ones I have encountered. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 17:40:47 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 15:36:19 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: spenny@aol.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Voting on the Net Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO I am reasonably happy with things the way they are. However, I find that I tend to informally call the list the "Rover-Net" and those who participate in it "Net-Rovers". So I favor something simple which closely approximates those choices. I don't want any long, cumbersome, or overly clever, cute name that we will all get tired of. Thanks for your efforts in assembling this. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 18:00:45 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 17:47:31 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: carb question To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, s20845@hp.rmc.ca, lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Uncle Brad Please Read I tried to send you a message but it was returned. In Aluminum Workhorse, page 2 you mentioned under Land Rover Books a company called Cartech. The 1-800 number is not good in Canada. Can you tell me an address or other phone number? I want to order the catalogue. If anyone else know the address or phone number please leave it on the Internet stratus.com. If you really feel kind, you could phone and have them send one to David Place, 219 Colcleugh Avenue, Selkirk, Manitoba Canada, R1A 0A4. Thanks in advance. Dave VE4PN By the way the US number is 1-800-551-4754. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 07:00:44 1994 From: Alex Bronstein To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: handling volume via Usenet News ? Cc: alex@adoc.xerox.com Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 17:45:54 PDT Status: RO Apologies if this topic has already come up, as I'm fairly new to this list. I've just noticed several people complaining about the increased volume on this distribution list, or dropping out alltogether because of it. One standard method for coping with DL volume is to transform them into Usenet News groups, which has tools which allow easy browsing and follow-up. In this case, it would be really easy, as there is already a rec.auto.maker hierarchy, and you could easily fit in rec.auto.maker.land-rover . Of course the drawback is that some members of the DL may not have access to Usenet News and may end up cut off. (There is a way around that: which is to have one site which reads all the new postings of the day and forwards them as a Digest in the current format, to interested readers.) What do people think of that? Alex (alex@adoc.xerox.com, Palo Alto, CA, USA) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 22:14:12 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 20:05:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@stratus.com From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: thanks to bill and ben, info about warwick Status: RO Hello all, I'm back from the Land Rover home country. Very nice trip (an understatement from someone never out of the US before). Thanks to Bill for some pointers, especially motor books in London. Also thanks to Ben Newman for info about Warwick 4x4. I stopped by Warwick 4x4 unannounced while making my way from York to Bath, driving a rental car and never really hitting anything but came close to one pole. Anyway, very nice man, Graham Greenwall and professional looking shop. At warwick, the buy a donor vehicle that you specify, then redo/restore the whole thing keeping the bulkhead for ID but putting in a new galvanized chassis with defender axles and coil springs. The preferred engine is a 2.25 petrol but other can be done if you insist. Graham has all the details an is ready to construct a vehicle to your specs. Prices are not cheap but I think it is a better way to go than getting such an old vehicle from a climate like england (IMHO). I have a brochure, similar to the ads that appear in LRO etc, plus a price list of the basics plus options. Like I said, not cheap, but ..... The big hang up I can see is that england is not the US. Graham of course wants to be paid and not hassle with problems. My bank here in the states won't loan money to buy a USED car (or probably new for that matter) out of the country. Thus, unless I really investigate the money side of the equation, I would have to come up with the full amount (in three seperate payments) and send it to warwick. The payments are spread out as such: one third and they go out and buy a donor of your description (ie, pre 67 109 or 88), one third and they start taking things apart and putting them back together. The last third and they (plus shipping) get the thing in a container and headed off with appropriate papers to a US port. In addition to the digests own Ben Newman (88), I found out that a Dr. Ling in Santa Monica has a Warwick 109. If anyone knows him, is he wired? Graham is hopefully passing my name address and phone to him so he can give me own thoughts about the warwick process. Of course, I'm off to the all british meet on sunday and will talk to the rover folks there. If you make it to Palo Alto, I will be with the tiger folks (look for a white tiger with a tiger blanket in it) or with the rover folks wearing a flourescent pink Sunbeam Tiger hat. Cheers to all, john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 9 22:30:20 1994 Date: Fri, 9 Sep 94 21:15:43 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Home again, Home again! Status: RO Hi Rover people! Well for those of you that knew about it, I made it back from Korea. Did not see one Rover in the country and it was the worst military trip I have ever taken. That even includes my little road trip to the Gulf. Oh well! As soon as I can learn how to swim and get my head above water I will get the name list on line. This is also kind of a test for the list. I still am not getting the messages via the list. I also am in the assembly mode on the engine for the 69. Maybe have it together soon. Cross my fingers. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 01:50:03 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Colorado British Car Conclave To: lro@team.net Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 00:41:55 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1899 Status: RO Organizers expect some 500 vehicles to be present at the Colorado English Motoring Conclave Sept. 17-18 in Arvada, Colorado. There has usually been a good Rover representation. Saturday, Sept. 17, will be a "Ride the Rockies" tour. Assembly point is Memorial Park in Arvada at 9:30 a.m. $5.00 in advance. $7.00 day of the event. More info: Glenn Sorensen 303-220-9742 evenings. Sunday, Sept. 18, will be a conclave in Memorial Park (58th [Ralston] St & Ammons, half mile west of Wadsworth) beginning at 8:00 a.m. $8.00 in advance. $10.00 day of the event. More info: Brian Serff 303-750-5746 evenings, Gary George 303-534-0518 days. To register, send payment and specify vehicles to: Colorado Concalve, c/o Scott Story, 1025 S. Larado Way, Aurora, CO 80017. Y'all come drool over the Rolls Royces, Austin Healeys and Minis -- and even the odd Morgan and Riley. (Rovers come equipped with their own drool.) .________________._____ /~~~~~~~//~~~~~~~~//~~~~~| / // // | /_\.___ //__ \.___//_______| O [%%%%%%%%%] O=====] |[_______] __\__ ===========___/_ --------}========================== |** |/|(@ ## (@| **| | []| |) | |/| ###### | | _____ | | ___ | |_____|/|_######_|____ |/_ _ \}_______|________/_ _\ |. |________________________| \ \_______________// \\ / |%{ @ } ! |%{ @ } |%{ @ } \%\ / ! \%\ / \%\ / ~~~~ drool ~~~~ ~~~~ 1966 Land Rover Series IIA 109" T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 06:07:34 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 07:01:37 EDT Subject: Names List Final - 2 days left Status: RO Please note: land-rover-owners@team.net, is the same as lro@team.net the second is an abbreviation, just as P.O. Box is for Post Office Box For the last time, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 am,when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 @6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post final results no later than Wed, Sept. 14 e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to use the internet mail address 1.) Land Rover Owners Club 2.) Rover nets 3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway 4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) 5.) RoversNet 6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection 7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network 8.) Rovers in the Ether 9.) Roving through the Ether... 10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. 11.) low-box net surfers 12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International 13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway 14.) Raving Rovers! 15.) The Net Rovers 16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn 17.) LROC of the Internet 18.) The Wired Rovers 19.) Space Rovers 20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers 21.) LROC of the Internet 22.) CyberLand Rovers 23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) 24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) 25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) 26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club 27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } 28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or 29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? 30 ) Car List Rejects 31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net/land-rover-owners@team.net Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 16:16:33 1994 Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 23:12:24 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re:Rovernet stickers To: Granville Pool Cc: Spenny@aol.com, lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199409072002.NAA14134@pacific.pacific.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 7 Sep 1994, Granville Pool wrote: > > Granville handed out window/bumber stickers he designed > > having a Land Rover Information Highway logo on it. > > > >Granville, are these stickers available for sale, rent, lease? > > > >Spenny > > > I plan to refine the signs a little and actually include a Land-Rover logo > (hope that doesn't get me in trouble with Solihull P.D.). I hurriedly threw > something together for the show (Portland Meet) which was just on paper and > card stock. I may alter the text a little as I refine this and add a logo > (or maybe a graphic image of a Land-Rover). > > Will post a message when they are ready. I will not charge for card signs > (SASE only) but will have to charge nominal amount for sticker versions (to > cover cost of transfer film). Will let you know. I'm flattered by your > interest. > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > [ Granville Pool >>5 Land-Rovers (4-88" 1-80" ] > [ 2601 Road I,#0, Redwood Valley, CA 95470 Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] > [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Granville Thanks for the info on the Gipsy. FWIW: If your'e not done already, you might consider the drawings on top of the pages in the Haynes Restoration Manual. On even pages there's an 88'' and a 109'' on the other. I had these images scanned to use on envelopes when i use 15th century mail. They are b/w line drawings that scale very well. You might have to check with Haynes for (C). I'm also interested. Do you laser printer? I tried to make a name sticker for Aurens. I used clear film adhesive on one side, -the type used to protect books. Do you know how long time it takes to get the fuser out of a 4L and remove that s??t?. So, eerh, if you know who makes laser ready adhesive film, i'd be mighty greatful if you'd tell me the name. Yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 18:31:01 1994 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 01:27:22 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Fiat regrets (was Re: Constable L. Rover) To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199409041849.MAA25055@mercury.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Sun, 4 Sep 1994, T.F. Mills wrote: > Soren "Lawrence of Arabia" Vels writes: > > < I turned the TV on this morning and switched to CNN. There was a report from > < Northern Ireland showing (among other things) an armoured one-ten used by, i > < think, UDR. > < It's very similar to the grey ones used by the constabulary. Looked quite > < heavy. This is the type of vehicle i would like for commuting. NOBODY will > < shoot in front of it and hit the brakes to get an advantage at the > < intersection. > > [Followed by some great info on APV's by T.F. Mills] > [Thanks] > > T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu > University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA LRO's sometimes must live with being laughed at, taunted and not be taken serious by other people. Like one of my workmates. He was on his way to work thursday morning when a Porsche 928 hit the brakes in front of him. His Fiat Tipo's front was crushed. He arrived 6 hours late and suddenly there was no more taunting and laughing. ''I wish i had borrowed your car this morning''. Well how about that. Soren From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 21:21:14 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover replacement in uk From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 20:30:03 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO >From the SEPT 5 issue of Soldier, UK FORCES pub. "Steyr Daimler Puch has been awarded a contract to provide 394 Pingauer 4 X 4 light trucks. Some will replace the One Tonne land Rover ." FYI Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 21:21:06 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LIGHTWEIGHT REBUILD FOR SALE From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 20:32:53 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO There will be a lightweight for sale in the spring in Central Canada. For more info e mail me directly Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Sep 10 23:33:42 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 22:45:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Intro my Disco To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net X-Vms-To: IN%"Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO One of the recent digests suggested truck introductions; I'll do that and add a person introduction, also. Truck: '94 Discovery, 5 speed base model, white. Been a great car since I got it I've taken it in Florida Sand Dunes and Kentucky rock climbs--it has per- formed exemplary in all aspects (I have written many comments about the Disco under the alias HenBen on America Online). The neatest things about the truck: It's built like a tank but designed like a modern car. 2)Competes and beats all other SUVs on their turf (paved roads and the marketplace) and 3)People dig it. This last one surprised me, since I bought the Disco as the best auto in the SUV offerings and traded in a 300ZX twin turbo, which got so much attention that I didn' t expect any while driving the Disco. The surprise is that so many people are interested in this car. Check it out, want to know about it, etc. The only improvement I would make on the car is to give it circular headlights like all other Rovers. Person: I'm a 3rd year medical student, Harvard grad, Austin Healey restorer, car freak (4 mags/month) and computer freak (3 mags/month) Feel free to contact if you have any Disco questions! Henry Wilson (wilsonhb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu) '94 Discovery 5 spd '59 Austin Healey 100-6 BN6 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 03:42:32 1994 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 01:38:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Heald Subject: Another club name suggestion. To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.net In-Reply-To: <199409110655.HAA10326@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Okay, I guess I'm probably late with this but how about: Information Green Lane ? (Could be "laners' but I like the idea of it being a 'virtual place'.) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 03:45:46 1994 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 01:42:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Fred Heald Subject: re: handling volume via Usenet News ? To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.net In-Reply-To: <199409110655.HAA10326@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Alex, > From: Alex Bronstein > Subject: handling volume via Usenet News ? > Date: Fri, 9 Sep 1994 17:45:54 PDT > One standard method for coping with DL volume is to transform them into > Usenet News groups... > What do people think of that? I suggested this earlier, and was overwhelmingly told that people hated the volume of 'noise' on Usenet. I strongly disagree - I would be much better able to read this group if it were properly threaded, as on UN. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 06:26:03 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 07:22:50 EDT Subject: Names List Final - LAST DAY Status: RO Please note: land-rover-owners@team.net, is the same as lro@team.net the second is an abbreviation, just as P.O. Box is for Post Office Box For the last time, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 am,when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 @6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post final results no later than Wed, Sept. 14 e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to use the internet mail address 1.) Land Rover Owners Club 2.) Rover nets 3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway 4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) 5.) RoversNet 6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection 7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network 8.) Rovers in the Ether 9.) Roving through the Ether... 10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. 11.) low-box net surfers 12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International 13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway 14.) Raving Rovers! 15.) The Net Rovers 16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn 17.) LROC of the Internet 18.) The Wired Rovers 19.) Space Rovers 20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers 21.) LROC of the Internet 22.) CyberLand Rovers 23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) 24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) 25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) 26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club 27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } 28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or 29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? 30 ) Car List Rejects 31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net/land-rover-owners@team.net Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 15:05:19 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 13:02:24 -0700 To: Spenny@aol.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: BALLOT / Re: Names List Final - LAST DAY Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO I vote for #31 (which, strictly speaking *is* a name: lro@team.net) However, at this admittedly late date, I would suggest that a simple single vote system is not a very good way determine a name. One better scheme (which I'll poorly describe, possibly called "preferential" voting) wherein: 1. each voter specifies your top (say 5) choices in order 2. you eliminate all the choices that did't get any #1s, as well as the lowest (say 2) #1 getters 3. you take the second choices of the people whose #1 choices were eliminated and apply them to the remaining #1 vote getters. 4. you repeat this process until you have a winner It's something like that... essentailly a bunch of runoff votes. It eliminates, for example, having a bunch of wacky choices which completely split the wacky-name contigent, while a few people like me vote for boring lro@team.net but win because we all chose the same boring name. >Please note: land-rover-owners@team.net, is the same as lro@team.net >the second is an abbreviation, just as P.O. Box is for Post Office Box > >For the last time, the voting rules: Voting will start Mon, Sept 5 @ 6:30 >am,when I will post a final edition of the list, and will end Mon, Sept. 12 >@6:30 am, one week from the posting of the final list. I will post final >results no later than Wed, Sept. 14 >e-mail me at spenny@aol.com put BALLOT in the Subject header > >Here is the list of names as of 2:00 am EST 9/3/94 >PLEASE NOTE: that the last option is no name for the club, just continuing to >use the internet mail address > >1.) Land Rover Owners Club >2.) Rover nets >3.) Low Rangers of the Information Superhighway >4.) L.R.O.I Land-rovers on the internet (info hiway) >5.) RoversNet >6.) IL-RIC - International Land-Rover Internet Connection >7.) ILRN - International Land-Rover Network >8.) Rovers in the Ether >9.) Roving through the Ether... >10.) Land-Rovers, Internet & Beer, a virtual community. >11.) low-box net surfers >12.) Ledgendary Land Rovers International >13.) Rover 4X4s of the electronic highway >14.) Raving Rovers! >15.) The Net Rovers >16.) Rover Rangers of the Infobahn >17.) LROC of the Internet >18.) The Wired Rovers >19.) Space Rovers >20.) Cyberspace LAN'd-Rovers >21.) LROC of the Internet >22.) CyberLand Rovers >23 ) Land-rover Users Group (LUG) >24 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual Register (L-ROVR) >25 ) Land-Rover Owners Virtual, Internet Group (L-ROVING) >26 ) Syberspace Land Rover Owners Club >27 ) Society for Landies United Together {Maloney Baloney ; ) } >28 ) LUGNUTs (Landrover Users Group Network UniTed) or >29 ) SCREWs (Society of Cybernet Rover EnthusiastS)? >30 ) Car List Rejects >31 ) NO NAME - Keep LRO@Team.Net/land-rover-owners@team.net > >Spenny > >Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com >Haverhill, Mass. USA >===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== >1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine > >Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! >What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 18:50:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: re: handling volume via Usenet News ? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 18:07:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Fred Heald writes: > > From: Alex Bronstein > > Subject: handling volume via Usenet News ? > > One standard method for coping with DL volume is to transform them into > > Usenet News groups... > > What do people think of that? > > I suggested this earlier, and was overwhelmingly told that people hated > the volume of 'noise' on Usenet. I strongly disagree - I would be much > better able to read this group if it were properly threaded, as on UN. I think the idea here is for a site with multiple users getting one feed and transforming that incoming mail feed into a local newsgroup in their hiearchy. Even for one user on a site, this aliasing is not difficult to have done by the system administrator for the user and a lot easier on their mailbox. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 18:54:46 1994 Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 18:42:04 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: carb question To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, s20845@hp.rmc.ca, lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO For those who are looking for an inexpensive replacement for the web strap which covers the top of the radiator cradle and the hood sits on, try lamp wick. It is inexpensive and available by the yard. If you can't find it in your area, try using the web material from a belt. It is necessary to pass your sewing machine across the cut ends to prevent the material from fraying. The little split copper rivets are available in most leather stores or you can use pop rivets, but pop rivets are not plat and the metal hood will sit on the pop rivet not the web material. If you are having problems with off the shelf gauges having lamps that are too bright, use 24Volt lamps instead of the 12 volt variety. The GE type that fits is 24Volt @.036 Amps. These are screw base lamps. Of course with the reduced voltage, they last a very long time. Does any one know the address and particularly the phone number of World Wide Brands, the company that holds the Camel Trophy name. I want to call them and order the 1994 Camel Trophy film. Thanks Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Sep 11 22:12:03 1994 Date: 12 Sep 1994 14:59:10 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Bought a(nother) Series I this weekend! To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO LROers, After two months without a LandRover vehicle (I sold my RangeRover in July to buy a house) I'm back in business. Details: 1956 Series I LWB pick-up cab with homemade wooden flatdeck for the amazing low price of NZ$750 (US$400) Good Stuff (so far): - Pistons and rings repaired/replaces two years ago - No smoking or drinking - I successfully drove it home (around 60 miles and over a 1300ft mountain pass) - No rust (well, very little surface stuff in non-critical areas) - Cab is in excellent shape with new padded seat covers - No major mods beyond the flatdeck - Refitted with SII/III rims and 750-16s (600-16s are impossible to find here) pushing the top speed from 45 to 50mph Bad/Questionable Stuff (so far): - Brakes need at least some adjusting/repair to keep it from pulling. - Leaf springs are quite tired. - Even noisier than my previous SWB Series I - 4" of play in the steering - No heater Questions: - What's the best all-round service manual for a Series I? - Was there ever a factory flatdeck? If so, what did it look like? - The farmer who sold it to me said it was a cross-over model to the Series II and it had aluminum pistons and Series II bearings. Is this possible? - Can I convert the Series I motor to a diesel? If so, what do I need to do the job? Please send a copy to me directly as I'm on digest-mode and won't get today's responses until tomorrow. Cheers and Thanks, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 03:17:49 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 01:08:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Carradine Subject: Handling volume via Usenet News ? To: land-rover-owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Alex Bronstein writes: AB: One standard method for coping with DL volume is to transform them into AB: Usenet News groups, ...you could easily fit in rec.auto.maker.land-rover. Good idea Alex (I was about to suggest it myself!). What I would like to see is a simpler address, such as rec.autos.rovers, and not to distinguish between Land Rovers and Range Rovers --I know we'd probably get some Rover Sedan postings but what the hey? If there is difficulty in setting up a newsgroup we could always try alt.autos.rovers. Or, we could try posting articles in rec.autos (I show only 64 articles) or alt.autos (I show *1* article) and simply put 'ROVER' in the heading ['Rovers take Over']. We could easily find our articles using the '/' search key! It might be best to start with postings in alt/rec.autos, then move up to a newsgroup alt.autos.rovers, and finally an 'official' group at rec.autos.rovers. Just to see how many people can get alt.autos or rec.autos, let's post the lro-digest every day, ie "ROVER lro-digest 9-12-94". I would prefer getting my news this way as a start!! --Michael Michael Carradine Carradine Studios / Architecture Development Planning cs@crl.com PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA Tel 510-254-3324 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 03:23:53 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 01:13:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Carradine Subject: BALLOT / Re: Names List Final - LAST DAY To: land-rover-owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Jory Bell writes: JB: I suggest that a simple single vote system is not a very good way (to) JB: determine a name. One better scheme (may be) "preferential" voting. I am also in favor of 'preferential' voting, to arrive at a 'short list' with distinct choices, and then the final vote. I can see screwy things already happening, for instance selection (2) 'Rover nets' and (5) 'Rovers net' are both high on the list and probably will get many votes. The names are very similar and right now will cause a split vote --thereby letting another name win-- when the two groups together may have a majority and could agree on a consolidated vote (such as my favorite 'RoverNet'). We can probably arrive at a simpler voting than suggested, ie, everybody votes for their top 3 or 5 names, then we take the top 5 vote getters for a short list (with maybe some discussion on the list or the vote count), and then vote for the final name in the second round!! (Or, maybe we can take the top 5 or so names from todays vote as a short list and then select the final one in a runoff vote --lets see how the numbers worked out?) --Michael Michael Carradine Carradine Studios / Architecture Development Planning cs@crl.com PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA Tel 510-254-3324 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 08:05:12 1994 Date: 12 Sep 94 08:56:31 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" To: Landy Subject: Carb fixed... Status: RO Howdy: Thanks to everyone with the suggested carb fixes for my Zenith. It was indeed badly warped, and 2 hours with files, emery paper and a glass coffee-table top (nice benefit of being single... noone complains about using the coffee table for carb-rebuilds!) the halves flattened out. I put the carb back on and it is running like a charm! This raises a question in my mind... do we have (or should we create???) some kind of a repository for this information. There are Tons of valuable tips exchanged here on an almost daily basis -- stuff which NEVER makes it into manuals or documentation. If we could compile our own troubleshooting guide based on our own experiences, we would have an incredible document. Maybe it already exists and I just don't know it... or maybe it would be a benefit of a newnet newsgroup where we could turn it into an FAQ file? Anyway, thanks again for the help. the Sgt. Major is once again running perfectly. Cheers, R. P. Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 08:02:25 1994 Date: 12 Sep 94 08:56:37 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" To: Landy Subject: Usenet Status: RO Well... I am all for having a Usenet Newsgroup, though it would be undfortunate to cut off any members who could not access them. Any ways to have a mailed "shadow" out of the newsgroup, much like digest, send daily to keep those people on? I am just finding that the digest is a bit difficult to browse through and there are not nearly as many people participating as before. Just my $.02. R. P. Reid '62 Ser IIa Military (The Sgt. Major) "An analog guy, muddling through in a digital world" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 09:17:29 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 10:08:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Unsubscribe To: landrovers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO please drop me from the list thanks From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 10:27:28 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 08:17:12 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: bumper sticker Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO >Howdy! I've got a '94 Discovery and am interested in you r bumper sticker. >What does it say, how much is it, and how do I get it? >Thanks! >Henry Wilson >wilsonhb@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu > I will repeat the response I posted to another such request. Patience, please, and I will get something out there: >> >I plan to refine the signs a little and actually include a Land-Rover logo (hope that doesn't get me in trouble with Solihull P.D.). I hurriedly threw something together for the show (Portland Meet) which was just on paper and card stock. I may alter the text a little as I refine this and add a logo (or maybe a graphic image of a Land-Rover). > >Will post a message when they are ready. I will not charge for card signs (SASE only) but will have to charge nominal amount for sticker versions (to cover cost of transfer film). Will let you know. I'm flattered by your interest. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 10:37:07 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 08:31:11 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dma@joker.ho.att.com (Douglas M Anderson) From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Land-Rover World Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO I received a request, from new-come netter Doug Anderson, as follows: > >In your posting to the Land-Rover-Owner List on September 8 you >mentioned a publication called _Land-Rover World_. Could you >send me an address or a phone number for subscription information? > I promised to get the address and post it. For any others out there who may be interested and who don't already have it, here is the information on subscription to _Land-Rover_World_ magazine (copied from _Aluminum_Workhorse_): Subscription rates for LROA,NA members are: US & Canada Airmail, #47.00 or #28.80 surface. The rest of the world: #52.00 Air & #32.00 surface. These prices are 20% below the regular subscription rates. Call 081-587-7335 or write: LRW Subscription Dept. Hainault Road, Little Heath Romford, Essex RM6 5NP England Another reason to join the Land-Rover Owners' Association, North America, n'est ce pas? The "#" symbol in the pricing above is for Pounds Sterling, as the "L"-type symbol is not part of the low-order ascii set and I assume therefore that it would not come through the net. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 12:03:48 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:55:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Disco info To: land-rover-owner@team.net X-Vms-To: IN%"land-rover-owner@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO In response to questions emailed to me, here are some Disco comments I have, posted for all to peruse! With regards to safety for children, I did not consider this issue since I don't have them. However, the Disco is built like a tank, and any collision is likely to hit the Disco at its frame (not over, as in a Geo Metro) so it would seem that kids in the back would be well protected. They'll have fun back there, too, since there is an enormous amount of space and little stash bins on the ceiling, not to mention dual sunroofs and extra A/C if you get those options (unnecessary, in my opinion). One should know, however, that Land Rover advertises the car as having side impact beams, and to my understanding these are only on the front doors, not the rear. Compared to other SUVs, however, it exceeds most in having impact beams _at all_ and exceeds all but the '95 Explorer (underpowered) and Mitsu Montero (I think) in having dual airbags. Don't forget the ABS and _great_ brakes for a heavy car. Re trunk space: loads. fold the rear seats down and you can set up a lawn chair in the back and read with plenty of headroom. If you need more, tow a U-Haul (up to 5500 pounds in hi) or et a roof rack. Ought to be enough. Hope this helps y'all! I have also left many comments on the Disco in the Car and Driver/SUV message group on America Online (HenBen). Henry Wilson British cars only. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 13:44:39 1994 From: IDylan@aol.com Sender: "IDylan" To: LRO@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 14:36:24 EDT Subject: Land Rover Type 109 Status: RO On behalf of San Francisco Bay Area family--Palo Alto, to be exact--, I'm looking for a late '60s or early '70s type 109 Land Rover. The family is interested in a station wagon with seats intact and was given this Internet address as a resource for finding one at the recent British Car Show in Palo Alto. I'll gladly receive any eMail and pass it along immediately. Thank You! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 13:55:54 1994 Date: 12 Sep 94 14:49:20 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" To: Landy Cc: "R. Pierce Reid" Subject: Add-A-Leaf saga -- Part 1 Status: RO Howdy: Here is the rundown on the add-a-leaf project I took on this weekend. The project entailed adding front and rear add-a-leaf helper springs manufactured by Hellwig and purchased through J.C. Whitney. The springs were about $30 a kit including shipping One kit does 1 axle.. They arrived in about a week via regular UPS. Each kit contained 2 leaves and 4 bolts used to bolt the spring pack together once the new leaves were inserted. It did not contain clips, though if you are careful, you can reuse the old ones. The kit springs were also marginally narrower than the originals, and are considerably thicker. They have more camber, as well, which accounts for the approximately 2" lift they gave my 88. Installing the helper springs is, at best, a heavy, miserable job. I did it myself, so it can be done, but I would not tackle it again without a friend around to help with lifting and other tasks. It took about 3 hours per spring to install them, and by the end of the third one, I was exhausted and had to do the last one the following morning. Total job time took 12 hours, though I have to go back, I think, and tighten up one set of clips... Tools involved were: 2, 1/2" drive socket wrenches, full sets of sockets, breaker bar, vice, 2 hydraulic floor jacks and a Land Rover jack (if you're doing it alone, you'll need all three), jack stands, blocks, cold chisels, propane torch, 12 Lb sledge, prodigious quantities of WD40 and penetrating oil, vice or large carpenters clamps, vice grips, punches/alignment tools, wire brush (to clean springs before reassembly), chocks for the wheels, and other assorted, small hand-tools that you probably have already if you own a Land Rover. First step is to remove the spring pack on whatever wheel you are starting with. I found it best to start loosening bolts while the vehicle was still on the ground. You don't have to unscrew them, but getting them turning before you jack it up is a bit safer as you start adding a lot of torque. Use lots of penetrating oil (I started spraying it on a week before I started the operation.) All the bolts came off easily except one Axle U-bolt which stripped -- it was mostly stripped before I started, though. Remember that the nuts on the U-Bolts have retaining clips that have to be bent out of the way before you put a wrench on. The U-Bolt nuts are usually in pretty horiffic shape. I had put on new springs just a couple of years ago and they were already pretty rusty, though they have seen only minimal exposure. This is where the breaker bar will really come in handy. As I mentioned before, I did this before I jacked up the vehicle, too, so you can put a lot of torque on them. Next, I loosened the back and front shackle bolts, still with the vehicle on the ground. You can remove either the top bolts (at the frame) or the botton ones (on the spring.) I chose to do the ones on the spring, leaving the shackles still attached to the frame. Once all the nuts were loose enough to turn, I jacked the vehicle up, removed the wheel and placed jack stands to support both the frame and the axle. It is very important to support the axle -- it it drops, you damage brake lines, tie rods, etc. -- not to mention possible cracking a brake drum or axle housing and putting a big hole in your garage floor. Don't forget to chock the wheels, set the parking brake and all the other safety do's that keep you from ending up with a Land Rover on your chest. Remember, this is a heavy operation and dangerous unless you take careful safety precautions. (As an additional precaution, since I was working alone, I kept a portable phone in reach at all times.) Once the vehicle is up, I removed the u-bolt nuts first, hosing them regularly with WD 40 as they came off. This allowed the bottom plate, to which the shock is attached, to swing out from under the spring pack and out of the way. On the first set, I removed the shock at the top mount, but that was really not necessary. This is also a good time to test your shocks and replace them, if you have any doubt about their condition. After removing the bottom plate, it was on to the shackle bolts. Remove the nuts and then undo the bolts that pass through the axles. Remember that these are threaded through the inside shackle, so you can't drift them out with a hammer -- you have to turn them out. Turn them out, again with WD 40 in copious quantities. Remember that when you get these out, the spring (which weighs about 80 lbs) will drop to the ground. I put in a piece of dowel to keep it in place until I had undone both the front and rear shackle bolts. Remember to check the placement of your jack stand inder the axle one more time, too. Again, you don't want to drop an axle!!! Once the bolts were all removed, I checked to make sure nothing was in the way and dropped the springs slowly on to a pile of rags and pulled them out toward the front or rear of the vehicle. FYI, this is for a front wheel... it is slightly different for a rear wheel in that you have to remove the check strap from the frame. I simply unbolted the front of the check strap and tied it out of the way. Make sure to have some slack in it before you start undoing the bolts or it will bite! On the rear, you also have to watch out for the brake guard/plate which fits between the axle and the spring. This gets rusted to the spring and if you drop the spring without loosening it, you will tear off a rear brake line. To remove the plate, lift the rear axle about a half-inch above the spring using one of your jacks and put a cold chisel between the plate and the spring. A couple of light taps should pop it loose. Your other option is to unbolt the brake line from the plate, but I found it easier to leave it in place after unbolting the first one. Well, now you theoretically have your springs off (at least one-at-a-time). Tomorrow's installment will cover disassembling the spring packs and inserting the new leaves. Remember, safety first! ***** ******* ******** FYI, any feedback you would like to send me on the article is appreciated... I will likely submit it to the Aluminum Workhorse as a Tech piece and would love to hear questions and feedback ( or mention of anything confusing to incorporate in the final article.) The remaining sections will be: Disassembling/reassembling the spring packs Re-installing on the vehicle Test-drive, retrospective and parts list Thanks for your feedback and interest. R. P. Reid '62 Ser IIa Military (The Sgt. Major) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 15:33:26 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 13:25:04 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: carb question Status: RO In message David John Place writes: > For those who are looking for an inexpensive replacement for the web strap > which covers the top of the radiator cradle and the hood sits on, try lamp > wick. It is inexpensive and available by the yard. If you can't find it > in your area, try using the web material from a belt. It is necessary to > pass your sewing machine across the cut ends to prevent the material from > fraying. I purchased a new one from Rovers North last year. I don't remember the price but I don't remember it being expensive. Even at Rovers North's prices. Wicks are the wrong colour and most would be too wide. Maybe a #1 burner wick might be ball park, but I have never seen it in uncut lengths before (but then again I normally only pay attention to round wicks). I would advise to use the real striping since it is available, correct (wicks are untreated cotton and rot easily), and as I recall cheap. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 16:22:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Another Land Rover sighted on TV From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 14:52:16 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Albeit this is second hand, but a co-worker here at Statistics Canada came in this morning and told me that a childrens cartoon had a Land Rover in it. What made it slightly amusing was that the cartoon is an environmentaly aware one called Captain Planet. In the cartoon, the fearless troop found that their solar-powered "geo cruiser" wouldn't work when they had to go off to do some good. Their back-up? A long wheelbase Land Rover station wagon. Probably not the most fuel efficient vehicle around if mine is any guide. Rgds, Dixon PS. The chaps kids ID'ed the Rover after seeing Dale's the other week when we dropped off my military 109 ambulance frame for indoor storage in his garage. (We start em young up here... :-)) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 16:08:26 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: Axles To: LRO@team.net Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 14:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Length: 1207 Status: RO I had a whole lot of fun at the Palo Alto meet on sunday. Not only did I see many nice Land Rovers, but I also got to meet their friendly owners. One of the most interesting things to do at these meets is to compare the specs/parts etc. that are found on the different models and years. I have recently been curious about axle/braking systems on the 88 and 109 models. I was hoping that, like the enging spec. (FAQ) that has been going around, someone out there has info about these parts. Axles: 1) I have noticed two styles of axles on series IIA and III Land Rovers. My front and rear axles (housings) have a support brace that goes from the bottom of the differential housing (pumpkin) out to the left (long) arm of the axle. I have only seen a couple of other trucks with this brace; most others having no brace at all. Is this a factory thing or a retro-fit for repair or strength? 2) What is the difference between a 109 and a 88 axle set- up (besides the Salisbury rear axle on the ser.III 109)? What would keep a creative individual from putting those nice 11inch. 109 brakes onto an 88? Thanks in advance if you can shed some light on this- Morgan Hannaford 1969 88" U.C. Berkeley From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 16:50:14 1994 Date: 12 Sep 94 17:39:18 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: lro-list on USENET Status: RO There has been talk here about the pros and cons of making the lro-list a newsgroup, or part of such. Just FYI I'd like to point out that from *CompuServe* it's _possible_ to sign on to a NewsGroup (at a price...) (... one point raised *against* USENET had been that list members on some commercial e-mail systems would lose access) I personally am happy with the mailing list and would prefer to keep it that way. Stefan LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 18:35:08 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 09:55:35 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz To: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com>, Landy Subject: Re: Springs Content-Length: 572 Content-Type: text Status: RO >I also have a winch on the front and would like to be able to carry a better >load in back Fair enough. I've often found the load carrying capacity of the old 88 springs a bit light. With a couple of people and a mountain of gear in the back the passengers get a rough ride as the axles bottom out. I've just had them recambered which has helped a bit. There was some discontent here on the list recently about recambered springs, but I am happy with the job done on mine. Nevertheless I suspect that they mightn't last too long, so new springs may yet be needed. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 18:20:51 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 16:14:09 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: LRO@team.net, morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: Axles X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 682 Status: RO > What would keep a creative individual from putting those nice 11inch > 109 brakes onto an 88? > > Thanks in advance if you can shed some light on this- > > Morgan Hannaford > 1969 88" > U.C. Berkeley > Morgan, I have 11" 109 "two leading shoe" brakes on my '64 88. Just bolt them on, starting with the backing plates. I use the 88 master cylinder, but the 109 master will also bolt into the 88. The difference is that the 88 has a 1/2" bore the 109's is 3/4". This means that the smaller bore will produce more hydraulic pressure but is more sensitive to adjustment because it won't displace the same amount of fluid per unit of peddle travel. Do it. Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 17:54:09 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 15:48:55 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: PREID@csi.compuserve.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Usenet Status: RO In message "R. Pierce Reid" writes: > Well... > > I am all for having a Usenet Newsgroup, though it would be undfortunate to > cut > off any members who could not access them. Any ways to have a mailed > "shadow" > out of the newsgroup, much like digest, send daily to keep those people on? > > I am just finding that the digest is a bit difficult to browse through and > there > are not nearly as many people participating as before. > > Just my $.02. > > R. P. Reid > '62 Ser IIa Military (The Sgt. Major) > > "An analog guy, muddling through in a digital world" > You have no idea how much null.content postings would happen in a land rover newsgroup, or how may would be jeep or toyota geeks would be flaming with "my 4X4's better than yours" bashes and people cross posting stuff about windscreen washing solutions, car air conditioners & who knows what. Lurk on rec.autos for a while. If the digest is bad for you, try the real timeish mail & get a front end that lets you scan titles & chose the ones you want to read. I think if a land rover mail group started up, it would be independent of this mail list. And certainly, if people ARE interested in a rec.auto.rovers, or alt.rovers, by all means start one and let us know about it. There is no reason one could not be started independent of this mail list and exist independently. But I sure wouldn't like to see this mail list killed if someone started a news group and do not see any reason why it should be killed. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 20:14:49 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 17:30:41 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM, LRO@team.net, morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU Subject: Re: Axles Status: RO In message <9409122314.AA00883@elephino.eng.sun.com> William L. Grouell writes: > > > What would keep a creative individual from putting those nice 11inch > > 109 brakes onto an 88? > > > > Thanks in advance if you can shed some light on this- > > > > Morgan Hannaford > > 1969 88" > > U.C. Berkeley > > > Morgan, > > I have 11" 109 "two leading shoe" brakes on my '64 88. Just bolt them on, > starting with the backing plates. I use the 88 master cylinder, but the 109 > master will also bolt into the 88. The difference is that the 88 has a 1/2" > bore the 109's is 3/4". This means that the smaller bore will produce more > hydraulic pressure but is more sensitive to adjustment because it won't > displace the same amount of fluid per unit of peddle travel. > Do it. > > Regards, Bill G. Having accidently tried an 88 master brake cylinder on 109 brakes...Do not use this combination unless you have a good safety harnes, are well insured and don't mind dents in the front of your Land Rover. Consider a 109 master brake cylinder a must for converting to 109 front brakes. If you have duel brakes, you should order a new expensive master cylinder from Rovers North or specify 109 duel brake master cylinder when ordering from the UK. Remember, the 109s were not exported into the US when they went to power assisted brakes & duel brakes. Very few sources in the US has parts for power assisted 109 master brake cylinders. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 21:30:33 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 22:24:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Axles To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM, LRO@team.net, morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU In-Reply-To: <9409130030.AA09475@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO and speaking of expensive....I paid over 100 quid for the 109 dual master for power brakes...whew....It seems that this is a weird combination ..the normal configuration is single curcuit w/power assist...I suspect the dual power job is Germany only (*very* strict laws about lights brakes etc.) so if you are going this route...beware! I suspect that there are several power set ups that would work here...pedal travel and leverage ratios are close on most vehicles, as are maximum pressures and wheel cylinder diameters....a friend has the booster and master off a nissan pickup on his 88.....if you aren't careful,you have to wipe the eyeball prints from the glass at every stop. 8-o and...the folks with single curcuit brakes that want power assist? grab a remote booster from a 2000 TC and fit it between the master and the "Tee" junction ...add vacuum from the inlet manifold and....screech! it stops! WOW! this is the Gurling one *not* the Clayton-Dewandre job...it is not possible to rebuild the C-D unit...... steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 23:51:44 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Handling volume via Usenet News ? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 21:50:03 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Michael Carradine writes: > Good idea Alex (I was about to suggest it myself!). What I would like > to see is a simpler address, such as rec.autos.rovers, and not to distinguish > between Land Rovers and Range Rovers --I know we'd probably get some Rover > Sedan postings but what the hey? > If there is difficulty in setting up a newsgroup we could always try > alt.autos.rovers. Or, we could try posting articles in rec.autos (I show > only 64 articles) or alt.autos (I show *1* article) and simply put 'ROVER' > in the heading ['Rovers take Over']. Newsgrouping would only be done on the local site. Creatig a rec. group is probably impossible for us even if everyone wanted it that way. (and many don't) The best solution is to have the mailing list sent to an alternate name on your particular system and have the system administrator alias mail messages destined to that name into a local newsgroup of your favourite name, even rec.autos.rovers if that is what you want (just make sure the sysadmin bangs it in the control file before it spreads and causes a problem). Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 23:51:00 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land-Rover World From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 22:23:18 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) writes: > Another reason to join the Land-Rover Owners' Association, North America, > n'est ce pas? The "#" symbol in the pricing above is for Pounds Sterling, > as the "L"-type symbol is not part of the low-order ascii set and I assume > therefore that it would not come through the net. You mean the Land-Rover Owners Association for the U.S.A., not Canada. While there are some Canadian members, the association is American oriented. In all honesty, the newsletter is less than regular too. (Is it supposed to be quarterly?) A good group to join is a good strong local Land Rover club, or one of the larger, more established clubs that exist that publish regular quarterly or monthly newsletters, and have been doing so for many years. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 13 00:29:49 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 23:52:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Springs To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > just had them recambered which has helped a bit. There was some > discontent here on the list recently about recambered springs, but I am > happy with the job done on mine. Nevertheless I suspect that they > mightn't last too long, so new springs may yet be needed. > I had my springs redone at a local spring shop a few years back. They did do a very nice job but after about 2 years gravity won out. If I were to do it again, I would go for new springs. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Sep 12 23:51:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Axles From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 23:07:18 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Morgan Hannaford writes: > I have recently been curious about axle/braking systems > on the 88 and 109 models. I was hoping that, like the > enging spec. (FAQ) that has been going around, someone > out there has info about these parts. No one has seemed to be interested. > 2) What is the difference between a 109 and a 88 axle set- > up (besides the Salisbury rear axle on the ser.III 109)? What > would keep a creative individual from putting those nice 11inch. > 109 brakes onto an 88? The best brakes on an 88 will be to put the III boosted system on and then put the rear 109 brakes on the front and back. The 88 will stop rather well. To put 109 front brakes on the front of an 88 gives to much braking power and has been found to be unstable and rather dangerous, at least by those who actually tried that route. If you do this, the master needs to be changed as the 109 wheel cylinders have a larger displacement and need the larger master. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 13 00:51:33 1994 Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 22:47:58 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: justfred@netcom.com, Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: re: handling volume via Usenet News ? Status: RO My two cents worth on switching to a newsgroup... I have a nifty program for handling e-mail that I really like. As yet, it doesn't do anything for newsgroups (next version). I would just as soon keep it e-mail myself. I have noticed the "noise" in newsgroups, and it isn't *that* much, but I like the idea of this being just our own little gathering. Not that non-owners aren't welcome, but that messages about "MAKE MONEY QUICK!" should be avoided. So, I vote to stay e-mail, but I'll be around either way. (p.s. I read all the messages.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 13 03:29:07 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Springs To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 9:20:23 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199409112155.AA11659@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz>; from "hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz" at Sep 12, 94 9:55 am Status: RO I believe that "heavy duty" springs are available for 88" machines. They are said to give a softer,more comfortable ride when lightly loaded,and to stiffen up when loaded more heavily.I can look up some addresses if anyone is interested,but they *will* be in the UK. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Sep 13 03:34:15 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Usenet To: twakeman@apple.com Date: Tue, 13 Sep 94 9:30:57 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9409122248.AA26672@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Sep 12, 94 3:48 pm Status: RO I agree wholeheartedly with TeriAnn.This mailing list is interesting, informed,entertaining,well-respected,and successful.There are a noticeable lack of flames,(ok,the odd squabble,but then,what family *doesnt* squabble now and then).The technical content is wel