From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 05:07:20 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Les's silly hat! To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 14:50:21 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Andy Woodward" at Aug 31, 94 02:51:11 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1013 Status: RO Andy writes: > The ultimate sillyhat has to be the one worn by the 'Bush Tucker Man'. What > a wally. > > Tell he comes from a land without weather. In Wales, it'd hang him by teh > neckstrap first Force10 we got........... And leave him dangling frmo a > Paperbark. Oh Contrair Andy. Les's hat is well suited to the Tropics he inhabits. One of the biggest problems with the more normal hat shape is that it rapidly fills up with water, during the 5-6" per hour storms. The "Lemon Squeezer" type dont. Sadly the style looks silly and is know hard to come by, unless you swim in your hat a few times and reshape it.:-) Mind you les's is a bit extreme even for me. On a Rover related note. Major Hiddins "Bush tucker man" raised the profile of Land-rovers a lot in this country. His 110 used to get surrounded by tourists when he went to the Darwin RSL club, for his quiet ale. Never met the man but his rover is a real workhorse set up. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 05:05:46 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 02:05:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: LRO Club Name List To: Spenny@aol.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"Spenny@aol.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Spencer writes.... > actually met (in person) anyone from the net yet, i have talked to a couple > on the phone, but i think i was parked 75 feet from Mike Lodice in owl's head > and i never got to talk to him. (Although i did meet Steve Dennis the year > before) A sticker perhaps? > Nope, wasn't me.. Never did get to Owl's head. But I saw a picture of someone else's truck with almost an identical fern paint job... hmmmm.. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 04:44:05 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Disco current cite To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 00:34:45 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 401 Status: RO Hot off the press: Griffin, Larry "Land Rover Discovery : just the thing for rascals little and big." [road test] CAR AND DRIVER Vol. 30, no. 3 (Sept. 1994) p. 101-109 The verdict: "good looking, good driving; Rover cachet for lots less cash". T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 06:57:51 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Les's silly hat! Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 08:42:08 UNDEFINED Status: RO > >> The ultimate sillyhat has to be the one worn by the 'Bush Tucker Man'. What >> a wally. >type dont. Sadly the style looks silly and is know hard to come by, unless Its such a suberbly sillyhat that I asked a freind who was working in Oz to bring me one back. Sadly he had to leave in a hurry, so I didnt get the hat. Its so deliciously daft as it comes that it'd just be spoiled by corks.......... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 05:04:07 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: land-rover-owner@team.net X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: Members of ARC (Association of Rover Clubs) related clubs. Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 05:51:50 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO At the ARC nationals over May bank holiday in in Derby, there was some discussion of using the net at the International ARC club meeting. Toward that end, I am in the process of writing to the ARC leadership about the net and would like to be able to tell them how many club leaders and/or members are already on the net. If any of you are members of a Rover Owners Club, or other Rover Marque Club, would you be so kind as to send me (e-mail directly to: caloccia@team.net) the following particulars: (Your) Name: . (Your) E-mail: . (Your) Position in the club: Member OR Office held: . Club Name: . Club Location: . (City/County/Region/State, Country) If you aren't sure if your particular Rover club is ARC affiliated, don't worry about it, as I've got a list of clubs that are. Cheers, - Bill caloccia@team.net caloccia@stratus.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 08:15:55 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 07:40:52 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: British Marque To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO I just received my September issue of British Marque, and the front page article covers the Stowe British Invasion September 16-18. In the article it states "On Sunday there will be an expanded Tailgate Picnic competition... Expect the Canadian Land Rover group to present quite a spectacle!". Dixon, what ever could they mean? On the back cover are some shots from the UK ARC rally. Now I know what John Hong's mug looks like. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 08:29:48 1994 From: K Schmidt Subject: add to list To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 9:20:09 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Could someone place me on this mailing list. sorry, I no longer have the LRO admin. address. I'm at s20845@sv1.rmc.ca thank you. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 09:27:40 1994 Date: 01 Sep 94 10:17:24 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" To: Landy Subject: My 7.5 wheels Status: RO Greetings: I just received and mounted a set of 7.5x16 wheels with Michelin radials on my '62 '88 military. They replaced a set of 6.5x16 military split rims with very aggressive firestone (British) uni-directional agricultural truck tires. The difference is night and day. The new wheels, combined with the overdrive, give it incredible highway manners (I commute 25 miles each way down the Interstate every day) and have reduced the engine speed from a frantic pitch, to just loafing along comfortably. The ride is much improved, and these tires are so quiet, I can now hear wind noise! I took it off road into some deep mud at a construction site and it breezed through as if driving down blacktop. I have probably given up some measure of off-road ability, but gained far more in roadworthyness. Visually, the car looks better, too. The wheel wells are "full" and it has a better stance. The new tires lift it up a little bit and give it a slightly more imposing look and feel. Interesting visual illusion, too... I went from Bronze Green-painted military wheels to white ones (they are not the proper limestone) and the visual effect makes the car look shorter. It's an interesting transformation, but something I noticed the minute I stepped back to look at it. Anyway, this weekend, I will be installing a set of add-a-leaf suspension front and rear and I will update everyone on that project (I think I see an Aluminum Workhorse Tech Article in this, too!) via a note. The description of the kit indicates that it can get about a 2" lift out of it, though I am more interested in increasing load capacity a bit. Anyway, anyone re-doing an 88, IMHO, should put the large, wide wheels at the top of their list. It is literally a whole different car! Cheers, R. Pierce Reid '62 Series IIa Military -- the Sergeant Major (Is this name taken?) *** An analog guy, muddling through in a digital world... *** From tomills@du.edu Thu Sep 1 10:27:02 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: post national rally car search... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9408311541.AA22012@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Aug 31, 94 10:41:29 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 583 Status: RO Ray Harder asks about the LRs for sale in Westcliffe, CO. I made no note of owners or anything, but recall that the 1969 88" belongs to a mechanic on Main St. (It was parked in the alley behind Main.) According to the phone book, there appears to be only one mechanic on Main St. (and maybe only 2 in town): Miller Automotive, 108 Main, 719-783-9694. He probably knows who to contact about the other one. There goes a fine Rover! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 10:45:06 1994 From: "John R. Benham" Organization: WFOC Spokane, Washington To: lro@stratus.com, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 08:37:14 +1100 Subject: Re: Is my clutch going? X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO > To: lro@stratus.com > Subject: Is my clutch going? > From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) > Send reply to: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Date sent: Wed, 31 Aug 94 08:44:52 -0500 > Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada > I find when I am driving, my clutch makes a intermitant high pitch whine. > When I press in the clutch, the noise goes away. I notice no signs of > slipping. What is wrong? > > Dale Desprey > > -- > Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada Dale, Try the throughout bearing. Regards, John R. Benham Editor, `The Rover Runner' Spokane, WA USA > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 10:37:50 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: post national rally car search... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 09:28:47 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9408311541.AA22012@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Aug 31, 94 10:41:29 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 583 Status: RO Ray Harder asks about the LRs for sale in Westcliffe, CO. I made no note of owners or anything, but recall that the 1969 88" belongs to a mechanic on Main St. (It was parked in the alley behind Main.) According to the phone book, there appears to be only one mechanic on Main St. (and maybe only 2 in town): Miller Automotive, 108 Main, 719-783-9694. He probably knows who to contact about the other one. There goes a fine Rover! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 11:13:04 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: land-rover-owner@team.net Cc: sarah@sbear.demon.co.uk Subject: Query on L/R product development / Safety research Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 12:06:30 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO >From riding in some of their vehicles, I wouldn't have thought Land Rover had given safety much thought :-) ------- Forwarded Message Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 14:46:20 -0800 To: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com From: Sarah Latchford Subject: Research on safety Message-ID: <9409011444.aa22233@post.demon.co.uk> Hello, I am part of a small group that design and develop safety products. We have recently come up with a few ideas for car interiors. Do you have any idea where Land Rover do research and development in this field? Any information would be a great help. Thanks for your time Sarah sbear.demon.co.uk ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 11:38:37 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:34:10 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: FTP site for Rover GIF's??? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: FTP site for Rover GIF's??? Does anyone know of an FTP site where I can get GIF's of Rovers? I love off road vehicles, but am a bit bored with the "jeeps and Jap junk" that I have as a back drop for my unix screen. I'm not trying to bash them, and have owned several, but since I'm soon to be a Rover owner (ordered a Disco) that's what I'd like to see! Thanks in advance... Dave (digest mode now) Brown #=====# "Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has." " "`O'""""`O'" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 11:56:15 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:52:06 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: Newsgroup opinion.. (No, please) Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Newsgroup opinion.. (No, please) I'd have to agree with John and TeriAnn, the potential for people to bombard us with junk mail would probably be enough for myself and probably many others to leave this "oasis home" for Land Rover owners. As it is, I (as well as you all, I'm sure) get WELL OVER 100 e-mail messages per day, even the 50 or so we got from the LRO list yesterday was a bit heavy, although now, in digest mode, it's easier to manage. I've only visited some of the "open" newsgroups on occasion, and from what I've seen, don't care to have any part of it. I WOULD however, like to see us organized, or united by a name. Yes, we have the "Team.net" name, and maybe that's all we need. But I think it'd be nice to be able to refer to this... Internet network mailing list thing by a name, other than "Internet network mailing list thing." Thanks for putting up with me... #=====# "Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has." " "`O'""""`O'" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:14:31 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 94 10:08:52 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: jory@mit.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: oil consumption V4 / catastrophic oil pressure loss Status: RO >From my experience when any warning light or gauge registers abnormal, there is a 50/50 chance that the problem lies in the sensor!! Cheer to Lucas John Brabyn 89 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:32:19 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 10:25:48 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: LR test area location??? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: LR test area location??? I found this on another mailing list thing that may be of interest to some of you: To all those interested: You can get to the Rover test area from four directions South: From Rte 301 north bound go under Rte 214 Central Ave and make a left at the Lowes (Hardware) and another left so you are heading southbound on 301. Cross over 214 and on your right 200 years will see a paved road, turn here and you will see the "no dumping" signs. On the left you will see some antique stores and a connecting road toe 301 North. North: Southbound Rte 301, south of route 50 and north Rte 4 (Penn Ave.) then follow directions above. West and DC Beltway: Take Rte 214 (central Ave.) east bound toward Wild/Adventure World. After W/A World, 214 will open to a 4 lane divided highway. Take the next exit for Rte 301 South. On your right you will find a paved road to exit off. wait at the "No dumping" signs. East: From Annapolis you can either go on Rte 50/301 or Rte 214. If 214 then take the 301 south exit (be careful) and get over to the right lane so you can get off Rte301s at the paved entrance road. Oh dear!!! I've deleted the original posting and don't know which city (U.S.) this is near. But it looks like the DC area. Maybe someone on the net could verify this??? P.S. I hope the directions from the south don't REALLY take "200 years." Good luck!!! #=====# "Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has." " "`O'""""`O'" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:41:21 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 13:35:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Questions questions....... To: DAVID SPENCER Cc: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <00983D29.D3FC4AE0.6819@esseX.stfx.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO > One question I had about variations on Trans. types...can a dip stick > be retrofitted for those without? I have heard that some earlier types > had a dip stick? > > I'll leave it at now for now. > > David S. > Antigonish, Nova Scotia *I've* got a question.....I have a wealth (ok,pocket change) of information on the early transmission etc.......BUT I get the idea that the techical stuff really only interests the very few..(You disco owners*PLEASE* don't take your gearbox apart!!!) I'm kinda new at this so is there a format where we can identify if the question has been answered,but dosesn't fill everyone's mail box to bursting? So...do I answer this type of thing on the net with my usual lack of breivity,speeling and accuracy,or do I post it to the info file and hope those that need to know will look it up....I've had several direct queries on some topics that have asked the same question,and if I answer them all,my poor little piggies get tired......maybe*everybody* else knows how to do this but not me..... Ok,short and sweet... the dipstick transmissions are series1 and 2....some very early 2a's...so to get a dipstick (stop it Maloney...) you have to use at least the case and top cover from one of these....(the case and top cover on all LR trannies are matched BTW)..the trouble here is that these units have a smaller layshaft (*get* a life,Maloney!...).)and the later "guts" will require some machining of the case to use.....It really isn't worth it in my estimation...but I've done it...If you really leak that much oil,perhaps an "IV bag" is in order :-) steve....... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 12:00:28 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 13:57:11 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: clutch plates Status: RO >Sorry for not responding to your Aug 17th mail about clutch covers. >I just got back from vacation -- hope you got things sorted our >(er, sorted out). I figure any comments at this point are far >after the fact! >See ya, >Randy Not quite after the fact.... I found a 9 1/2 cover in my collection of parts to replace the series III 9 1/2 cover which had "naked fingers" instead a collar for the series IIA throughout bearing to ride on. When the previous owner put the sIIA Trans in the SIII LR they used the SIII clutch cover. A note of interest pertaining to an earlier discussion...it seemed to be working fine but there was "some" wear on the "naked fingers" at the point of contact with the throughout bearing. The progress so far is... the pressure plate has been removed from the clutch cover ...also the fly wheel and are both sitting in a box waiting to be taken to a machine shop and resurfaced. I have not yet orderd the new friction plate. so whats holding me up? well... while at work on the clutch I also decided to do some "small" amount of work on the frame...so I removed the rear and seat box. At this point a friend came over to see it and made me an offer I am still stuggling with...he could have it submitted as a "trade school" project and have the entire frame and and all the springs rebuilt.... The cost involved would be only materials but.... It would be laided up for 2 months or so... I am tempted to do the "small" amount of welding ( the present frame is old and tired but still solid enough for on road driving ) and then reassemble all the bit lying around the house and yard ...if the trade school really needs a class project they can build me a new frame from scratch? but ....now I ramble.. I'll have made up my mind soon. One question I had about variations on Trans. types...can a dip stick be retrofitted for those without? I have heard that some earlier types had a dip stick? I'll leave it at now for now. David S. Antigonish, Nova Scotia From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:56:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Oil consumption for the 3.9l From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:38:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > and while I'm at it.....My understanding on the oil leaks is that on > equipment that is designed to operate under severe dirt and grime > conditions, that the seals are set up to leak fluid. The reasoning is > that the outpouring of oil will wash away the muck from the seal to steel > interface and prevent the dust and oil (there is always going to be > *some* oil..no seal is 100%) from forming a "grinding paste" and wearing > out the seal and related parts before noon....ummmmmm *could just be more > hype to cover up poor quality control...... Hence why is is desirable to use double lipped seals on the hubs, yet is very bad idea to use triple lipped seals (yes they are available in the correct size for a Land Rover hub). Single lipped seals on the hub just let a little too much get past. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:57:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: P O R T L A N D ! ! ! ! From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:42:01 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com writes: > I suggest that all those rover guy that are on the net that intend on attend > the rover/brit car meet have some sort of exterior flag/marking or somthing t > distinguish ourselves from the norm?? British-cars mailing list has done this. Deposited a "crest" at a reputable printer and have available shirts, coffee mugs etc with the logo. Logo is a Union Jack with crossed con rod & spanner in front as well as the letters SOL. mailing list addrss is at the bottom... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:55:32 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Newsgroup? Bio, thanks from BP From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:44:24 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Fred Heald writes: > Why not a rec.autos.land-rover Usenet newsgroup instead of or in addition > to this mailing list? It would give a lot more exposure, and threads > would actually be 'threaded'. More for the same reason that the much larger British-cars mailing- list has refused this. People on this list want to be here and have gone to the effort to get here. Access is controlable. In a newsgroup every yahoo with some other 4x4 can stop by, or cross-post into the newsgroup just to be a pain in the ass. This format is far superior to having a newsgroup. > The problem is, I'm not sure how to go about creating the newsgroup. I > guess it's easier to create groups in the alt. hierachy, but I think with > some sort of a vote it would be possible to create a rec. group. Alt is easy. Rec requires a vote. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:58:22 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Discovery / Defender Premium Fuel? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 08:49:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> writes: > Regarding the use of standard unleaded gas all I can say is I wouldn't. Just some trivia. In Canada gasoline uses a number of additives for replacing lead (MMT et cetera) that are banned in the USA. Thus running unleaded is not as bad here as it is in the USA. I have also not heard any horror stories from anyone up here visa-vis their Rover and head problems from unleaded gasoline. Rgds, Dixon (Guess this justifies paying $2.50 (approx) a gallon for gasoline) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:53:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:21:42 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk writes: > This "InterNet" thing is a big unknown for a lot of people here in > the UK. Getting access is not *that* difficult, the cheapest > commercial system I could use works out at 120pounds (pa) for > subscription and ~1pound per hour telephone charges (I've got a local > modem bank). I can't think of the address off-hand, but there is a much cheaper system accessable via modem in London. They were originally thumbing their node at the formal internet structure over there by routing mail and news via two locations, one in Ottawa, the second in New York. My understanding is that access is very reasonable. Other than them, access in the UK has been rather restricted and expensive. > Most people don't really understand what this e-mail thing is all > about -- it tends to be 'a serious tool for company use only', so > they don't think about the possibility of a leasure use for it. Ths assumes they have an idea in the first place. Don't really understand the whole concept I find to be more common. Interest is there and growing, at least here in Ottawa and within OVLR. > I suppose it comes down to the fact that I feel we should recognise > ourselves as a club. Just because we don't have a membership fee or > any formal structure does not detract from the fact that we do most > of the things that other Rover clubs do. I'd just like to be able to > show the regional clubs that there is a truly international club out > there, and all it requires is a computer and a modem to join. A > mention once or twice doesn't really do that, a listing in the Club > pages does. This "club" does a lot more than many formal clubs, at least in terms of communications between members and the occassional regional gathering where people may get together to actually meet some of the other list members (Speaking of which, there are about a dozen OVLR members going down to the British Invasion at Stowe Vermont (Sept 17-18), and at least four will be bringing their Land Rovers.) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 13:51:20 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Proposed Club Name From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 09:30:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) writes: > A club motto could be "Show Us Your Layshaft" or "I've Got More Knobs Than Yo > and I Know How to Use 'Em". As long as you don't steal the unofficial OVLR motto "Shit Happens"... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 14:28:40 1994 Date: Thu, 01 Sep 1994 15:16:35 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Denis's Dipstick Doings To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steve Writes: >> ...the dipstick transmissions are series1 and 2....some very early 2a's...so to get a dipstick (stop it Maloney...) you have to use at least the case and top cover from one of these....(the case and top cover on all LR trannies are matched BTW)..the trouble here is that these units have a smaller layshaft (*get* a life,Maloney!...).)and the later "guts" will require some machining of the case to use.....It really isn't worth it in my estimation...but I've done it...If you really leak that much oil,perhaps an "IV bag" is in order :-) steve....... >> Steve is correct in saying that the top and bottom halves of the main gearboxes are matched. What this means to you is that the selector shaft passages are line bored with the halves bolted together. The result is that if you mix top and bottom halves from different boxes together, then bolt them down, the selector shafts are held TIGHT. They don't move for nothin'!!! If you are patient you can, by way of careful machining of the pasages of the top halve's passage way, make it fit. You must be patient, however. I found this out the hard way (Don't ask, Stevo) and learned that the quickest way to remove the material is with a dremel with a drum sanding attachment. Make an even pass though all 3 passages (top half only) then flush & dry thoroughly. Bolt it down, Move the selectors back & forth using a rubber mallet. Unbolt the cover and examine the passages. You will see where the shafts contacted the high spots. Repeat the process working on the high spots 'til the selectors slide easily. Actually once you can rotate them slightly with your fingers that's enough. Pull it off once more and finish with fine abrasive paper and oil or steel wool & oil. Be very careful to remove all traces of filings/abrasives as you don't want them in your tranny. Regarding responding to previously asked questions, I see a lot of new folks come on the net with questions. They may have been addressed before, but these folks really need help and I'd rather put up with a few extra messages in my mailbox than leave them out in the cold. For the past couple of months when I see a question that has been addressed previously, I pull the response out if I've saved it and send it to the requestor direct if the return address is accurate. I remember when I got my first Rover and how a lot of very generous folks helped me with tips and advice. In the end I'd say definately respond, and it's your choice/judgement as to whether you want to reply direct or through the net. My 2 Cents worth. Bill malonet@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 15:58:58 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: British Marque From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 14:55:44 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) writes: > I just received my September issue of British Marque, and the front page > article covers the Stowe British Invasion September 16-18. In the article it > states "On Sunday there will be an expanded Tailgate Picnic > competition... Expect the Canadian Land Rover group to present quite a > spectacle!". Where is Dale, aka Baldrick, aka something very silly... :-) > Dixon, what ever could they mean? No idea. We are very prim, proper, serious, teetotalers up here where some live by the motto "shit happens" when the above fails to occur... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 15:49:26 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 16:41:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Maloney's Slapstick Doings To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO ok...some technical stuff for hard boiled rover cases out there...btw i'm typing "Righty only" 'cause i opened up a hot radiator for laughs and giggles...didn't find either...... the early S2 trans has a smaller layshaft....so if that is perceived to be a problem for you due to breakage, stop now and hit delete.... in concert with this,the input shaft with gear and the counter gear are a different ratio than the "B" and later trans. So,ifin' ya put the late input shaft and matching counter gear in an early trans,you get a lower 1st,2nd,and 3rd gear...!!!!!(4th,being "direct", stays the same) Cool! you can now get that 109sw started on a hill in high range! But wait!!!! the early S2 had a different low range ratio to make up for the higher 1st gear in the "correct" main gearbox.....sooo if you use one of these transfer boxes with the later trans,you get a lower 1st gear/low range....*And* if you use the handy-dandy gear box i just discribed,you get a real rock crawling low range and still maintain the same top gear/high range! Can you say"wide ratio"?.....the transfer box also,is "weaker" due to the smaller intermediate shaft (easy to identify...it's alot smaller...you can see it by looking just to the left of the parking brake drum) However.....*I* haven't been able to break mine yet..... hot rod antics,big whompin' engines and general tomfoolery, need not apply... all others....try it,you'll like it! ps. the final overall ratios in the book are the same for 2 and 2a...but the *way* that these ratios are obtained are different.....check part numbers etc. ...... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 17:07:58 1994 Date: 01 Sep 94 17:59:47 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: UNIMOG mayhem Status: RO On 30 Aug 1994 Roeland van Delzen wrote: > <...snip...snip...> > <...snip...> I encountered Germans in a brand new UNIMOG, completely > prepared. Cost: about 100.000 DM ! He told me he drove about 25 km in the > dessert. However, it was a track where even a 2 wheel drive VW bus could > drive. He dared not to go into the dessert any further, because he was > afraid of damaging his vehicle ! Ah, the UNIMOG "adventurers" ... they are SO pathetic, aren't they? I was at a globetrotter meet last weekend where all sorts of strange folks and vehicles congregated. You had converted ex-military MAN 8X8 (not a typo!) monsters with fully air conditioned stainless steel cabins strapped to them, contrasting with a guy who had just come back from Greenland which he had crossed... *walking* ! Anyway, come sunday morning when it was time for leaving it was raining, and had been raining all night. Now the site was a kind of big sloping meadow surrounded by woods & cow fences, very picturesque and Black-Forest-like, *but* the entry/exit gate where all had to go through was uphill at the _top_ of the site. Well, you can imagine that after the first couple'o dozen vehicles had gone over that patch of grass the ground around the exit gate was pretty mucked up and slippery, the usual rutted mud w/grass sods. Nothing that would worry a Land Rover, though, and the Rovers, Toyotas and *most* other 4WDs quite effortlessly ploughed their way up through the gook and made it out through the gate. One VW Beetle, having failed on first try, turned back to take a long run and had a go for it, lifting off on a few bumps, then skidded uphill right across the muddy part more or less on its belly and litterally catapulted himself through the gate out onto the street - good aim! This performance must have given a wrong conception to someone about how to properly negotiate uphill in mud, because suddenly we hear a deafening roar behind us somewhere, and there comes this UNIMOG "ActionMobil" expedition rig sort of thing tearing across the premises, its stacks blowin' thick black like it was the Rubber Duck out of "Convoy", flinging mud, grass & cowchips all over the place, enters the muddy part and... skids out of control, flattens a (fortunately empty) VW Jetta parked alongside the entry, crashes through the fence sideways, skids across the street and continues backwards into an orchard where it collects a few young apple trees in its path. You should've seen the kids applauding, it was better than the movies! Lateron when damage assessment and recovery was in progress you could see this guy fumbling through the manual of his h-u-g-e Warner winch - he had never used it before! And as for the skidding part, someone took the trouble to explain to him a) what a locking central differential was, b) how and when to use it, and c) that his rig was actually equipped with one. Well, that's UNIMOG drivers for you. Finally, to give this narrative a clear Rover purport, let me finish by saying that not a single one of the Land Rovers got stuck or even had a wheel slip on that part. Take care, Stefan <100043.2400@compuserve.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 19:27:42 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 02:22:18 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Little Things...... To: Steven M Denis Cc: Mike Rooth , lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, Steven M Denis wrote: > > Not from Austrialia I fear, the hat with the folded up brim is from > northern India!...As much as I would like to think that the "King's Guraka > Rifles" wore that headgear to help with egress from the landies,it is > ,alas, not so....The upper higlands have much open country,hence the > large floppy brim,BUT the open spaces lead to long range shots(in excess > of 1 mile,I'm told) sooo the chaps were issued lone barraled rifles not > the shorter .303 Enfields....all goes well untill they go to sling the > buggers....and ,to a man,knock their hats in the dung....not > regimential,that...... > So....get the hat in dark brown so the muck don't show,and stand > tall,you're in good company! > steve..... > > > "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." > > "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis > " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 > " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA > " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 The Gurka's used to wear them and i think they still do. If you call N.A.A.F.I., they might be able/willing to tell who's making them. Personally i prefer a tweed sixpence which IMO goes fine with a Landie, -along with my John Lennon sunspex. Yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 20:07:14 1994 Date: Thu, 1 Sep 1994 19:58:09 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club To: dixon kenner Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Perhaps we might consider using the IRC system on Internet. For those who don't know what IRC is, it stands for Internet Relay Chat, and is a real time connection to other people on the net. In my area you type dp enter and when you get a prompt, you type irc space _d space enter and you are on. You type / list and you get a list of people wishing to chat. If we post a title like Land Rover, you type /join Land Rover and now you can talk to other Land Rover types in real time. It would mean having like a meeting from time to time instead of just sending Email. Just an idea. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 21:15:46 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 03:20:20 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re2: Proposal: A new LR club To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <2280CD768C8@wfoclan.usbm.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, John R. Benham wrote: > > From: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk > > Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh > > To: lro@stratus.com > > Date sent: Wed, 31 Aug 1994 09:23:54 +0000 > > Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club > > Priority: normal > > > > IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk writes: > > > > > > > I'd like to suggest that we register our distribution-list as a club > > > > in LRO & LRW. > > > > > > Surely they already know of the list. LRO and LRW have been > > > receiving the OVLR newsletter for quite a while and the details > > > about this mailing list have been mentioned many times in the > > > newsletter. If they want to add it, fine, but they do have > > > the details, assuming they had a clue about the InterNet and > > > what it is. I know the LRW is aware of the list, but just have > > > not gotten a hook-up to the InterNet yet. > > > > This "InterNet" thing is a big unknown for a lot of people here in > > the UK. Getting access is not *that* difficult, the cheapest > > commercial system I could use works out at 120pounds (pa) for > > subscription and ~1pound per hour telephone charges (I've got a local > > modem bank). > > > > Most people don't really understand what this e-mail thing is all > > about -- it tends to be 'a serious tool for company use only', so > > they don't think about the possibility of a leasure use for it. > > > > My idea was to try to expand our userbase to interest more people. > > > > I suppose it comes down to the fact that I feel we should recognise > > ourselves as a club. Just because we don't have a membership fee or > > any formal structure does not detract from the fact that we do most > > of the things that other Rover clubs do. I'd just like to be able to > > show the regional clubs that there is a truly international club out > > there, and all it requires is a computer and a modem to join. A > > mention once or twice doesn't really do that, a listing in the Club > > pages does. > > > > I remember the last time that a non-rover thread started to rampage > > around the net -- alot of people didn't like it. I don't want to push > > this list into something it isn't (a new one can always be started to > > cover that). This is a free list and I want to keep all the good > > things that it has, but I also want to tell more people we exist. > > > > Less that a dozen people have expressed an opinion, most of them have > > been pro. What does everyone else think? is this the wrong place to > > do this? Shall I send out the list of names suggested? shall I drop > > the whole thing? > > > > > > ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 > > Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. > > World Wide Web site -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ > > #======================================================================# > > I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do > > Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. > > > > Ian, > > Why have a `list' of Rover internet names. The Rover owners who > use it already know who is on the net. Also, if it gets any larger, > it becomes more difficult to weed through all of the messages. > So far, the only commercial message I have seen was from some > Florida people trying to sell us Rovers. Did it ever occur to them > that we already have Rovers and that they don't wear out? My feeling > is to leave the Net alone. The net will naturally grow in numbers > and I'm sure someone will always try to break in for it's commercial > potential. By making a LRO list would only tempt the commercial > sector. > As far as naming us as a group, we already are a group and have a > name: LRO. We can't meet like normal clubs, since we are so dispersed > (as one netter states), so why `organize' more than what it is now. > > Regards, > > John R. Benham > Spokane, WA USA > > > I certainly agree with John. Skipping all the diesel stuff shows on the phonebill.No seriously. The list CAN be used for club purposes, as we see from time to time. Also, the net (list) is a fine media if a (semi-)national club welcomes outside/ international participation in arrangements. Netters can pass information on to their respective clubs. Wide spread club to club/individual info with only a few Kb af ascii. May i instead suggest two lists to be maintained by volunteers: A. A world wide Land-Rover club list with addresses and club secretaries. B. A world wide Land-Rover dealers/part shops/garage list. Both lists could be useful and interesting to travellers and circumnavigators. The lists should preferably be maintained where it could be FTP'ed. (I have dial-in access). The ''B'' list is an invitation to commercial advertisement, but the maintainer could cut out ''irrelevant'' text and mask the entries to be more or less standard. BTW, i'm about to make a presentation on Dansk Land-Rover Klub. Just need a few details before posting. Yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 20:40:15 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 03:36:44 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Lube'ing the Hwy was Re: Proposal: A new LR club To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9408311906.AA04812@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 31 Aug 1994, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: > In message Steven M > Denis writes: > > > > Yup...I can see it now > > > > "Quick Earl!,Get the net...those durn Land Rovers are four wheeling on > > the information highway!" > > > > Are we,as a group,dropping clods of mud on the information superhighway?? > > > > No, I like to think we are providing the world a service by lubercating the > internet with the 90 wt leaking from our cars as they speed from node to node. > Those electrons just flow a little faster and easier with a lubercated > net....unless of course the electrons happen to get stuck behind a Land Rover on > its way to the next node. > > > > TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards > LINK: TWAKEMAN > 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 I tried to mail to a friend who runs a BBS with fido. It didn't arrive yet. Must have landed in the middle of landie convoy jamming the gateway. +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 19:37:52 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 20:37:02 EST To: lro@team.net Subject: a new thread? Content-Length: 500 Status: RO Not to interrupt the discussion of the club name, but the folks over at rally-l are having a neat little conversation about Lucas' having invented daytime running lights and intermittent wipers (they just weren't the manufacturer to label the switch intermittent... >> A free Lucas 3-position toggle switch ("Off," "Flicker," and "Dim") is >> offered as an inducement to the first five new members > I thought that the Lucas switch was "Dim", "Flicker", and "Short"... :-) Tee hee. Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Sep 1 21:56:21 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 04:52:39 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Discovery / Defender Premium Fuel? To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 1 Sep 1994, dixon kenner wrote: > "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> writes: > > > Regarding the use of standard unleaded gas all I can say is I wouldn't. > > Just some trivia. In Canada gasoline uses a number of additives > for replacing lead (MMT et cetera) that are banned in the USA. Thus > running unleaded is not as bad here as it is in the USA. I have > also not heard any horror stories from anyone up here visa-vis their > Rover and head problems from unleaded gasoline. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > (Guess this justifies paying $2.50 (approx) a gallon for gasoline) > > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > I use Shell 92oct unleaded for my '76 2.25. It used to run on gas (not gas!), so it can do without the lead. 1990 > Disco and Defender are modern cars, made in Europe where leaded petrol is getting extremely unpopular. I can't think of a modern (Defender modern?) eurocar that needs lead. In Sweden leaded petrol is forbidden. (And diesel is extremely overtaxed. Taking more than 200l of diesel into Sweden results in a SEK 10.000 (1.000 pounds) fine.) Anyone can find the engine number and check with the nearest LR dealer to find out if the engine runs with unleaded. In 1988 unleaded fuel was a newish thing in Denmark. People were afraid to use it. DTU (Danish Tech. Univ.) did a survey and found that 85% of the cars registered in Denmark could use unleaded. And with 180% car tax upon first registration, cars get old in this country. Yours +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 00:23:22 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: names From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 23:02:57 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Become a club, have a president and secretary, UG. Who wants that job? Seems like it would remove all the fun out of the system. We are on the most part a fairly civilised bunch, we even know how to apologise if we have too. I like the informal threads and things that go on here, lets keep it fun, sometimes getting all organsised kills it for most people. Thats how I feel, Robin. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 00:24:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: LRO MAGAZINE From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 01 Sep 94 23:06:33 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I have been watching the change that is going on with LRO since the emap take over recently, and talking to a whole bunch of people about it. what one gleans I have to say is for the most part scuttlebutt , but that can have a grain of truth in it. So for what its worth heres what I have picked up and noticed, all disinterestd parties exit here. The orgainsation is being run with Martin Hodder as the over seeing editor , Paul Horrell assisted by Carl Rogerson are the editors and junior / asst ed. Not really Land Rover people from what I hear apart from Martin that is.. Alot of insiders see that EMAP looks at LRO as a cash cow wainting to be milked. We the readers should get of our butts and be more expressive of what we feel about alot of things. For instance, LRO used to run some appaling adverts from one of the major tyre companies. it was an advert that would not have made it into any North American magazine because of its derrogatory and belittleing treatment of aboriginl persons. I felt strongly about that advert. To me a magazine like LRO that claims to have an international appeal should be more carefull of its content. I wrote the tyre company, its US head office, and LRO magazine. I got a phone call from the UK from the HEAD of the UK division of the company saying that they were very sorry for the advert but it was pressed on them form European head office. They would pass my comments on. A week later I got a letter from the person responsible for the ad, they had now pulled it and apologised. The power of one. So for all those of you who get LRO and whine about it , write them and let them know, they will never hear about it otherwise. The sept 94 issue came a few days ago and I have these cooment s about it. I think that the yellow 88 on the front has occupied that spot once before. Will have to check back on that one. on page 8 Richard Thomas is going on about how Land Rover is protecting it sname and getting tough on the subject. Turn to page 17 and look at the Discovery in the back ground that sports "UN" on the door, a little bit of a double standard here? The 127 on the bottom of page 153, four doors storage area behind, great looking vehicle, take off the lights and this would be a great civvy vehicle. One of the best land Rovers for a long time IMHO. The coastguard article on 188 really bugs me. i think this was ghost written seing as there is no name credit for it, that really bugs me when no one will put their name to something. page 194, Vincent Hammersley states: "the greatest quantity of Defenders built in one year was 56,000 in 1970...." WRONG , WRONG and WRONG again. Defenders are a coil sprung vehicle, in 1970 no one had thought up the ghastly name. it really bugs me when Land Rover, and dont forget that Vincent Hammersley is one of the top pr peole at Lode lane, try and ride the suceess of the the "Defender " on top of the IMHO sometimes better quality older series of vehicle. They make some outlandish calims to production figures these days, like "To date Land Rover has produced nearly two million vehicles and DEFENDER accounts for more than 1.5 million of these." See what i mean? I have by the way, always been somewhat outspoken about what Lnad Rover says and have clashed horns with Mr Hammersley in public before! On the interesting side take a closer look at the 110 rolling down the line on page 197, yes the white on in the foreground, interesting spec if you look at it long enough. Congrats to dixon for his work that gets him a name check on p 220. having been involved with OVLR or a number of years i know what it is to "do" a monthly newsletter. I put out one myself aswell. Whilst reading International Off Roader, yes I write for them aswell, so I do have an interest, there has been lively coverage of the "BULL BAR" debate going on in the UK that has been for the most part kept fairly low in profile in LRO. it seems that the traffic boffins say that bull bars do lotsa more injury to pedestrians in accidents, they are not "soft" etc etc. So they should be pulled and banned etc. One wise person asked roufully what about the 18 wheelers? they are pretty unfriendly to pedestrians too! Dont you love it when a bureaucrat gets his / her teeth into an issue. Must say that the contents section for his issue was alot better this time. I am still waiting for my LRW to appear. thanks for the minute Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 02:53:52 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 08:47:26 UNDEFINED Status: RO Why am I suddenly getting a digest? Is everyone else? Or have I done something to annoy someone.......... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:09:13 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Query on L/R product development / Safety research Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:06:35 UNDEFINED Status: RO >From riding in some of their vehicles, I wouldn't have thought Land Rover had given safety much thought :-) I am quite happy with em. Especialy their design philosophy no crumple-zones. They build em into the other car. The farmers on Anglesey are about as brain dead as its possible to be and still be calles anthropoid. One in a 110 pulled out in front of one of teh biggest Volvo estates (cant remember the model number - I have my pride....), tanking along teh road at fair lick. The 110 was T-boned amidships. It was badly dented. Looked like several hours in teh barn with a hammer to fix it. The Volvo was only recognisable as such from teh turret backwards. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:16:24 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Newsgroup opinion.. (No, please) Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:13:54 UNDEFINED Status: RO /I'd have to agree with John and TeriAnn, the potential for people to /bombard us with junk mail would probably be enough for myself and /probably many others to leave this "oasis home" for Land Rover owners. I read rec.motorcycles, one of teh noisiest groups around. Actually all the flaming adn polemical close-combat can be fun. But even if I cant e bothered with it, it's no great hardship to simply wipe the threads that have turned noisy. Same with mail. /As it is, I (as well as you all, I'm sure) get WELL OVER 100 e-mail /messages per day, even the 50 or so we got from the LRO list yesterday /was a bit heavy, although now, in digest mode, it's easier to manage. /I've only visited some of the "open" newsgroups on occasion, and from /what I've seen, don't care to have any part of it. I actually get about teh saem. But most of tehse are noise from mailing lists. Few are hatemail from rec.motorcycles. It doesnt seem to be a problem in real life. Also I now find myself on the digest. Which means I have to plough thru the whole damned thing to pick out teh info, instead of being able to simply ignore threads that done interest me. There are big advantages to getting lots of individual messages over one huge one, if your newsreader has a thread-mode... (I use Trumpet on a PC) /I WOULD however, like to see us organized, or united by a name. Yes, we HAH!!!!! I thought lorry owners were individualists. "I am not a number. I am a free man." From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:23:01 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Newsgroup? Bio, thanks from BP Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:18:56 UNDEFINED Status: RO > The problem is, I'm not sure how to go about creating the newsgroup. I > guess it's easier to create groups in the alt. hierachy, but I think with > some sort of a vote it would be possible to create a rec. group. / / Alt is easy. Rec requires a vote. Alt would be preferable for me. Since our newsswerver expires all rec. groups every midnight, so it misses 3/4 of teh posts. It would mean I have to download via a foreign site, just to keep up with you lot's collected wisdom :( I dont see any fundamental problem with a newsgroup as such, but for my own convenience I am happy with the mailing list. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 03:31:49 1994 To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: UNIMOG mayhem Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 09:24:59 UNDEFINED Status: RO /onto the street - good aim! This performance must have given a wrong /conception to someone about how to properly negotiate uphill in mud, /because suddenly we hear a deafening roar behind us somewhere, and /there comes this UNIMOG "ActionMobil" expedition rig sort of thing /tearing across the premises, its stacks blowin' thick black like it was /the Rubber Duck out of "Convoy", flinging mud, grass & cowchips all /over the place, enters the muddy part and... skids out of control, /flattens a (fortunately empty) VW Jetta parked alongside the entry, /crashes through the fence sideways, skids across the street and //continues backwards into an orchard where it collects a few young /apple trees in its path. You should've seen the kids applauding, it was /better than the movies! Lateron when damage assessment and recovery was /in progress you could see this guy fumbling through the manual of his /h-u-g-e Warner winch - he had never used it before! And as for the /skidding part, someone took the trouble to explain to him a) what a /locking central differential was, b) how and when to use it, and c) that /his rig was actually equipped with one. Well, that's UNIMOG drivers for you. /Finally, to give this narrative a clear Rover purport, let me /finish by saying that not a single one of the Land Rovers got /stuck or even had a wheel slip on that part. It was the drivers, not teh MOG. T he SAS play with these things in the hills behind where I live. After they've been thru in a MOG, you simply cant ever use that road again with anything else.......... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 05:34:44 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Bull Bars/LR Safety To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 11:23:23 BST Status: RO Just my two pennorth on these subjects. Safety.I have heard an eminent accident inspector say that the best safety device in his opinion would be a bloody great spike fixed to the centre of the steering wheel pointing at the driver.I must say I agree with him.The most dangerous thing about a lot of vehicles is IMO,the driver.Surrounded with "fail safe" devices he regards himself as immortal.Only too often he realises this is a fallacy far too late.I'm just grateful my crumple zones are other peoples. Your safety,in my view(which I dont expect many folk to share)is your own responsibility.There is no substitute for skill in any field.The greater the skill,the safer you are.And frankly,I'd rather be in my old 11A than any Euro/Jap crap vehicle surrounded by so called "safety devices" any or all of which are potential failures. As for Bull Bars,well, personally I dont rate 'em.I fail to see the advantage in driving around with a field gate bolted to my front bumper.Hit something and it bends back causing far more damage to its parent vehicle than if it wasnt there in the first place.HOWEVER,isnt it about time that pedestrains were told to keep *off* the road in the first place.Not only do we have all this hoo-haa about Bull Bars,there was also a suggestion by the good Mr Thomas in LRO that we drive around with our headlamps on all day so that we could be easily seen,presumably by jaywalking shortsighted jerks.If the twerps cant see a Land Rover,for god's sake lit up or not,they shouldnt be out without a nanny.And sitting up where I am I can see *them* (and the nanny's legs)a damned sight earlier than if I was in a "soft" soft? vehicle with my arse two inches from the road. I submit that the bottom line is this."Safety" is a double edged sword. By promoting it,quite rightly in my view,we try to make people more aware of danger,and to protecr them therefrom.*Is* there such a word? BUT,and its a big but,overdo it and you either induce panic,ie you actually frighten some people(not A Good Thing)or you destroy the inbuilt sense of danger.Another Bad Thing.Example.When I was a kid, I knew that if a strtch of stream I was mucking about in appeared still it was deep.A no-go area.No-one told me.They didnt have to.I also knew that if I went home with wet socks inside my wellies I would get a thick ear.Its called safety training.Nowadays kids get drowned because there is no notice saying"this is deep water,dont get wet socks".Simply because we have overdone the safety thing.I say nothing against making the world safer,but at some stage someone is going to have to have the courage to point out that whatever the efforts its still a dangerous place,AND ALWAYS WILL BE. OK,we all drive a fairly bis,hefty machine.The older ones have nothing in the way of safety devices,so they are very "hands on".We also know that if we clout anything a)It causes grief to the cloutee,and b)The clouter is going to have to mend it him(or her)self.Even leaving aside any sense of responsibility we have to the rest of the human race,thats a pretty good incentive for responsible driving.In fact,I would suggest its 98% of all you need.The other 2%,safety devices right left and centre are I suggest at best,not cost effective,and at worst counterproductive. Sorry if I've "gone on" a bit about this,my excuse is that three weeks ago I saw a direct result of this overprotective(if that's the right word)attitude.A tipping tanker was unloading 25 tons of sand about 30 yards from my office.It was an artic,and the tank was nearly vertical. I'd seen these in action for the best part of the week,and stayed well clear of them when they were like that.They didnt *look* right. On the Thursday there was a groaning crunch.The tank had fallen over. Unfortunately,a woman was walking right alongside it at the time.It killed her.The argument afterwards was that the area in question should have been coned off.Perhaps so,in today's climate,but I still maintain that poor woman would still be alive today if her sense of danger hadnt been atrophied by the safety experts. I've a feeling I've bored you enough,and probably enraged some of you so I've got my fireproof suit on(or perhaps I should rely on ducking):-) Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 07:30:58 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 08:19:57 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Denis's Doofy Dipstick Doings To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Gentle Steve Writes: >> ...btw i'm typing "Righty only" 'cause i opened up a hot radiator for laughs and giggles...didn't find either...... >> Don't believe him for a minute!!! You can be sure that if he stuck his paw somewhere it didn't belong, it certainly wasn't on a radiator cap!!! >> the early S2 trans has a smaller layshaft....so if that is perceived to be a problem for you due to breakage, stop now and hit delete.... in concert with this,the input shaft with gear and the counter gear are a different ratio than the "B" and later trans. So,ifin' ya put the late input shaft and matching counter gear in an early trans,you get a lower 1st,2nd,and 3rd gear...!!!!!(4th,being "direct", stays the same) Cool! you can now get that 109sw started on a hill in high range! >> I have a Series III main box and an early suffix A (Smaller intermediate shaft) in my 109. On the road the 109 is geared much taller (7.5R 16s) than my 88 (235 70R 15s) I know that the tires have a lot to do with this but I wonder if the diff ratios are different (2.25 gas w/Salisbury rear end). Anyway, when I use the low range on the 109 it is noticeably lower than the 88 in low range with smaller tires. I just recently finished building a late IIA main and early suffix A transfer for my 88. Next spring or summer I'll put it in and see how it works. If you can get an early transfer as a spare it will make a good project for the winter to rebuild. Aside from that big mother snap ring and the front (or is it rear) bearing race that's tricky to remove, it's not too difficult (just be sure to follow the manual and not get ahead of yourself) and fairly rewarding. Parts are a bit scarce in the US and you may want to try Merseyside or Craddock if something you need is unavailable here. Bill malonet@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 08:30:55 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 09:03:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Busy Rover Event Schedule To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO This fall in the northeast US there is quite a lot going on: September 16-18, Stowe VT - British Invasion - expect about a dozen Land Rovers (hundreds of other Brit makes) (802-253-2106) Ben & I should be there on Saturday September 24, Gladstone NJ - Shoot Out at the OK Corral - It's a Jag meet, but all British cars are invited. Ben and I might crash it (908-369-4654) September 30-Oct 2, Miles Standish Park, MA (?) - Bay State Rovers Fall Heritage Tour (sorry, I don't have a number for Jim). I'll be there, and maybe Ben too c/o Jim Pappas P.O. Box 342 North Scituate, MA, 02060 October 7-10, Virginia - Mid Atlantic Land Rover Rally (804-423-4898) -a must do for all October 15, Dover NJ - MG Marque Day at Moss motors - all British cars are invited (201-361-9358) I may or may not be there depending on my vacation schedule - I'd like to go to Mt. Desert Island this fall. Bill malonet@wings.attmail.com Wayne, NJ USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 02:51:09 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 2 Sep 1994 08:40:37 +0100 From: "Ian Stuart, Faculty" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 08:39:56 +0000 Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest Priority: normal Status: RO ->I think that the yellow 88 on the front has occupied that spot once ->before. Will have to check back on that one. I don't have the magazine handy, but I think you're refering to the issue where they discuss green-laning (that one was an R-reg) ->page 194, Vincent Hammersley states: "the greatest quantity of Defenders ->built in one year was 56,000 in 1970...." WRONG , WRONG and WRONG again. -> ->Defenders are a coil sprung vehicle, in 1970 no one had thought up the ->ghastly name. it really bugs me when Land Rover, and dont forget that ->Vincent Hammersley is one of the top pr peole at Lode lane, try and ride ->the suceess of the the "Defender " on top of the IMHO sometimes better ->quality older series of vehicle. They make some outlandish calims to ->production figures these days, like "To date Land Rover has produced ->nearly two million vehicles and DEFENDER accounts for more than 1.5 ->million of these." Yes, that bugged me too! ->Whilst reading International Off Roader, yes I write for them aswell, so ->I do have an interest, there has been lively coverage of the "BULL BAR" ->debate going on in the UK that has been for the most part kept fairly ->low in profile in LRO. -> ->it seems that the traffic boffins say that bull bars do lotsa more injury ->to pedestrians in accidents, they are not "soft" etc etc. So they should ->be pulled and banned etc. One wise person asked roufully what about the ->18 wheelers? they are pretty unfriendly to pedestrians too! They say that a 4x4 with bull-bars does more damage at 10mph that a normal vehicle does at 25mph. I would have to agree: ANY 4x4 is going to do more damage that a normal car, bull-bars or not :-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 10:23:28 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 11:02:38 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally Status: RO Trying to get all our ducks in a row for the outing, including a liscense from the state alcoholic beverage control board. Seems that a liscense is going to cost more than the beer...and then we can't sell it even as a non-profit organization...we have to *give* it away. (...distant cheers heard from Ontario....) We're going to have a keg of pilsner and one of porter from a new local micro-brewery, "Legendary Brewing" Sounds just about right... Has anyone replaced a headlight with a halogen sealed beam? I'm still running with *original* (i.e., 22 yr old) Lucas bulbs that, according to one of the Ottawa crew, serve more to warn on coming motorists than actually illuminate the right of way. Even with a pair of 150w driving lamps for off-road, I could still use a bit more that the feeble brown light of the Lucas'. A year or so ago, I went to the auto parts store and bought a set of Phillips "7 inch" halogen headlights, but these would no fit the 7 inch bezel of the Rover. Suggestions? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 11:10:18 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 12:08:04 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Hey you west coasters out there- Anyone know of rover freak by the name of David Haseman?? Was speaking to the British Pacific folks the other day tracking down some history of my dear Nigel (a '60 SII 88 who was born and raised in the CA sun) and they told me that David was the guy who once "put alot of work" (synonous with $$$$$) into him. Supposedly, he live(s,d?) in the Pasedena area. If you know of or meet up with him, please thank him for me and let him know danige is alive and well on the "right" coast (as viewed from up-over). thanks, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 11:45:58 1994 Date: Fri, 02 Sep 1994 09:43:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Randy Rose 818-395-3840 Subject: Re: oil pressure loss To: lro@team.net X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Jory writes: In a similar (though contrasting) vein, I was recently on my bi-weekly 1.5 hour highway commute, when I noticed my oil pressure drop to 0!!! I immediately turned off my engine, and coasted about 2.5 miles to an exit (amazing luck to have this happen at the top of a hill). (SNIP AND CUT) It turned out the mechanical oil gauge feed tube had broken, and the oil was spilling out this tube. *** Sounds familiar! Goes like this: was driving one night last year. My feet were getting warm (OK nothing too unusual). Then I smelled oil. Then my feet felt wet. Hey!, wait a minute, what's going on! High pressure hose to the dual gauge broke, just behind the gauge, in the dash. Still haven't got the smell of out the jute in the upholstery. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 12:02:51 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:00:03 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net, azw@aber.ac.uk Subject: Re: Query on L/R product development / Safety research Status: RO To give Land Rover credit, there was a mesage on this list some time ago about a video which showed the testing they went through (done in Australia, I think) to make sure the airbags wouldn't go off accidentally in off-road hammering in the Discovery. I too think safety as such has been somewhat of an afterthought at Land Rover, but by happy accident it is built in and they now capitalize on it! Things like the 14 gauge steel box section frame and the biggest brakes in the business don't hurt. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 12:07:32 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 10:06:15 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Status: RO I agree especially about the bullbars -- I have never seen them to be useful for anything but appearance. The same applies to the ridiculous headlight and taillight protectors sold as accessories -- the chances are you then have to to pay for new "protectors" AND new taillights if they get hit. Also, has anyone tried working oin an engine in a bullbar equipped vehicle -- I would think it would entail a lot of leaning over and reaching. These statements are slightly tongue in cheek -- but I'd be interested to know if anyone has found bullbars/brushbars to be useful? I am willing to change my mind!  John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 13:27:41 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 1994 14:22:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety To: John Brabyn Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9409021706.AA16939@skivs.ski.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I've had limbs smack the lamp cages hard enough to dent the fender and would imagine that the plastic lenses would not have found that "amusing"....but your point is well taken....the trouble and hassle when changeing bulbs takes the edge off....without the guards,you might have a *much* easier time 'cause there wouldn't be any lenses in the way either.. :-).... It is the same point with the "Bra" that you can put over the front of your car to keep the paint beautiful(no bugs or stone chips),but you and others can't*enjoy* the paint 'cause it covered up by the big black bra..... It has gotten to where the *look* is the whole thing.....Birch Bark canoes were built with the brown inner bark on the *outside* ....so the outer white layers were on the inside.....will someone explain that to the makers of the aluminum canoes with the fake white birch bark exteriors.... If anyone had built a *real* canoe that way,the would have been laughed off the water....... the lowered (and raised,for that matter) jeeps and suzukies with the low profile tires are the same type of things....(raise the body,fine,but the diffs are still the low point...) this is why my rovers are nearly "stock"....it becomes an "anti-car"...it actually does what it looks like and looks like what it does...and therein lies the appeal..... steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 13:41:39 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Cc: "Rostykus, Phyllis" Subject: RE: LRO Club Name List Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 11:35:00 PDT Encoding: 13 TEXT Status: RO I was looking at the list of names, unable to decide, so I thought I'd enlist the help of my wife's imagination. 2 minutes after forwarding her the list, I got a reply. Remember this is a non-biased (ok, maybe a little biased) observer's recommendation... "I like 'Car List Rejects'" While I would like a name with Land Rover in it, somehow this seems to really fit our motley crew... ->8*] John Rostykus john@data-io.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 13:44:28 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 11:40:41 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Regarding the raising and other mods done by non-Land Rover owners, it always amuses me that they raise them then put axle trusses on to REDUCE ground clearance -- but needed I guess due to the flimsy axles they use. Also of course the suspension usually ends up even stiffer than before, reducing traction on uneven terrain whenever one wheel droops. The host of other problems such mods cause (driveline vibration, speedo decalibration, higher effective gearing, etc etc) make us all grateful to have Land Rovers , which don't need modifying. John Brabyn 89 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 14:42:09 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 11:30:55 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org, denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Cc: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Hear Hear! John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 15:43:03 1994 Date: Fri, 2 Sep 94 13:38:53 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: jory@figment.mit.edu Subject: Re: Bull Bars/LR Safety Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO I take back the remark about the light protectors!! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:22:03 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Proposal: A new LR club From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 10:40:28 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO David John Place writes: > Perhaps we might consider using the IRC system on Internet. For those who > don't know what IRC is, it stands for Internet Relay Chat, and is a real > time connection to other people on the net. Unless you are a uucp site (like fourfold), or have a firewall at your site that barely lets mail through (like StatsCan et al). Sounds great, but has even a more limited audience that the mailing-list. (Most limiting in terms of who can use it would be the web sites using mosiac etc) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:23:08 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re2: Proposal: A new LR club From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:31:01 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO S|ren Vels Christensen writes: > The list CAN be used for club purposes, as we see from time to time. Also, > the net (list) is a fine media if a (semi-)national club welcomes outside/ > international participation in arrangements. Netters can pass information on > to their respective clubs. Wide spread club to club/individual info with > only a few Kb af ascii. The mailing list is certainly being used by a few clubs for keeping up to date vis-a-vis events et cetera, as well as informing others of their club events. The OVLR Birthday Party and the ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally are two that spring to mind right off hand. > A. A world wide Land-Rover club list with addresses and club secretaries. > B. A world wide Land-Rover dealers/part shops/garage list. This exists in the form of the FAQ. Granted I have not posted and update to it since last July (probably should, it has doubled in size), but it has a list of clubs and suppliers. Granted it is very North American - UK oriented. I'll post it soonest. Hopefully my mail box will fill with corrections/additions... > BTW, i'm about to make a presentation on Dansk Land-Rover Klub. Just need > a few details before posting. Club wise, the FAQ has no non-UK/USA/Canadian clubs in it. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:20:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LRO MAGAZINE From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:37:55 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) writes: > We the readers should get of our butts and be more expressive of what we > feel about alot of things. I know a lot of people letting their subscriptions lapse because of the way LRO is going. > Must say that the contents section for his issue was alot better this > time. In the derelicts section they identify a brown, very restorable, Land Rover as a Series I. Looking at it, it is obviosly a Series II. > I am still waiting for my LRW to appear. Mine arrived before LRO last week. The LRO arrived after Meadows, Wood, & Ted's did. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Ottawa Valley Land Rovers / FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Sep 2 19:28:12 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: FAQ. Updated version... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 02 Sep 94 12:48:17 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO LAND ROVER FAQ last modified: July 22, 1993 archive site: /pub/sol/landrover.faq @ triumph.cs.utah.edu (99k) Edited by: Dixon Kenner (OVLR) Contributors: Ted Rose (OVLR) (Gen'l Maint) Ian Stuart (UK Clubs) Greg Hiner < > (Suppliers) Original file: /pub/sol/landrover.ascii @ triumph.cs.utah.edu (13k) by Teriann Wakeman Introduction: This FAQ is primarily concerned with Land Rovers built between 1948 and 1984 (The end of the Series III). While there may seem to be emphasis placed on North American Land Rovers, this is due to information available at the time of writing. Any additional information, or corrections, are welcome. At the time of this version, the FAQ remains incomplete. dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca ============================================================================= CONTENTS: 1. What is a Land Rover? 2. What Land Rovers were imported to North America? - Series I - Series II & IIA - Series III 3. Engines - Petrol (4 cylinder) - Diesel - Petrol (6 cylinder) 4. Things to look for when shopping for a Land Rover - Checking under the Land Rover - Starting the engine - Test driving - Land Rover extras - Value 5. Specifications - General - Capacities (fluids) 6. Chassis numbering 7. Magazines & publications 8. Clubs 9. Parts - USA & Canada - Great Britain ============================================================================= 1. WHAT IS A LAND ROVER Land Rovers are true classic roadsters with a removable hard top (or soft top) and removable metal side curtains. Land Rovers have an aluminum body with a steel frame, firewall and front (holds radiator). The tops are bolted on. The front doors have side curtains that unbolt. Full metal tops, pickup metal tops and canvas tops are available. The engine, while underpowered, has been described by pro mechanics as seriously overbuilt. The car was meant to survive the charge of a adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. <1> Land Rovers have more charisma in its lug nuts than most cars have in their whole body. They are not very fast, don't have all the comforts for a city new car driver and they are noisy inside. If you get one, you will have to deal with people going ga-ga over it in parking lots, frequent honks from strangers and people staring at your car as they drive past. You also have to deal with people who think it is a Japanese imitation Land Cruiser. Not to worry, owning this khaki coloured monster generates fierce loyalty and enthusiasm among the converted. ============================================================================= 2. WHAT LAND ROVERS WERE IMPORTED TO NORTH AMERICA There are two common types of Land Rover in the United States, a third more uncommon type in North America, and a fourth uncommon type in Canada and the UK. The common Land Rovers are the short wheel base model 88 and the long wheel base model 109. The model 109 was imported into the US until 1968. The model 88 was imported until 1974. There were older models but they are few in number and parts are difficult to get. There are also newer models, but they were not imported to the US. In 1992, a special version of the 110 Discovery was imported into North America where 500 went to the United States, and 25 to Canada. In late 1993, imports of the Defender 90 commenced to North America. This FAQ is aimed at the earlier Land Rovers It is reported that 16,000 Land Rovers were imported into North America when they were available for sale. Estimates of surviving vehicles range from a low of 4,000 to a high of over 10,000. As a comparison, as of 1992, some 19,000 Range Rovers had been imported since 1989. There were three series of Land Rover imported: Series I (a short wheelbase series I seen in "The Gods Must be Crazy")); Series II ('58-60), Series IIA ('61-'69 or '70; and Series III. Most people prefer the IIA to the Series III. Series I Series I were produced from 1947 through 1957. Wheelbases included the 80", 86", and 107". The basic engine was the 2 litre, four cylinder cross flow engine. In 1956 the 88" was introduced, followed in 1958 by the 2 litre diesel and 109". Series II Series II were produced from 1958 to 1961. This saw the introduction of the 2.25 litre petrol engine. Series IIA were produced from 1961 until 1971 in both the 88 and 109 inch wheelbases. In 1962, the 2.25l diesel engine was introduced along with the Forward Control model. In 1967 the 2.6 litre, six cylinder engine was introduced for the 109 Station Wagon, as well as the Series IIB 110 Forward Control model 1967: seperate wiper motors to single motor in dash. 1969: headlamps moved from centre radiator grill to wings Series III Series III were produced from 1971 until the early 1980's. Imports into North America ceased in 1974. The Series III saw the dash revised with black plastic, instruments moved from the centre of the fascia to a position in front of the driver. The door and bonnet hinges are flatter than Series IIA. More hidden was the all-synchro gearbox that was introduced, an uprated clutch, modified brakes with new drums, re-routed brake pipes and servo-assisted brakes as standard on all Station Wagons. And there was the all plastic front grill... In 1972 the V8 101 Forward Control was developed, though not actively produced until 1975 for the British military. Miscellaneous Electrics are positive earth from 1947 until 1967 when they were changed over to negative earth. (Note: a number of owners have changed their Land Rover from positive to negative earth, along with going from the dynamo/generator approach to an alternator. This should not effect the value.) Carberation was changed from the Solex to the Zenith in 1967. Parts and rebuild kits are difficult, if not impossible to obtain for the Solex. A Solex can be rebuilt once. After that it will need to have parts changed that are no longer available. The recommended carb. change when your Solex is worn is to change it to a Weber for increased gas milage and a few more horsepower. You will need the adapter plate used for the Zenith to fit a Weber. Long Wheelbase Models: The 109 came in several versions, of which the two door (pickup) and four door (station wagon) are the most common. The 109 2 door has a 6 foot bed. There is a rare model of four door 109 called the Doormobile. It is the Land Rover camper. It has a pop up top (like the VW van camper), refrigerator, sink, propane stove and other goodies. 109 versions: Regular with canvas top Pick-up Pick-up with 3/4 hood with side windows Regular with hard top Station Wagon (10 or 12 seater) High capacity pick-up Doormobile Short Wheelbase Models: The swb, or 88 came as a two door pick-up, or the more common three door version. Unlike the 109 Station Wagon, it is possible to remove the roof and windows of a swb to create a soft top version. 88 versions: Canvas top Pick-up Pick-up with 3/4 hood Hard top with sliding side windows Station wagon Other Types: The third type is the 101 Forward Control. This is very rare in North America, and to my knowledge only found in the eastern part of the continent. The fourth, uncommon type which can be found in Canada is the military lightweight. This is the military version of the swb Land Rover, and despite the name, actually weighs more than a swb Land Rover, though narrower so to fit into an RAF Andover aircraft. Long and Short Wheelbase Comparisons: 88 - 109 comparison: The 88 being lighter and having a shorter wheel base, is a superior offroad car. It doesn't get stuck as often and can turn in almost half the radius of the 109. Of course you can sleep inside a 109 two door or doormobile. TerriAnn notes: I have no problems taking my LR on long trips and have on several occasions been driving it 8 to 10 hours a day. It went car camping between Monterey bay and Portland Or last year, and on several 200 - 300 mile trips. This year I will take it back to Portland for the Portland all British car meet and to the LA area for the national Dairy goat show. My two door 109 is a great car camping long distance car. Its a bit on the noisy side (a common LR trait) but it is reasonably comfortable and if kept up extremely reliable. When I go on long trips I carry: Spare set of all special hoses, spare points, cap rotor, spare water pump lots of 90 weight oil and tools. On one trip I had to tighten the steering box mounts and add fluid to steering box. Other that that I have not had to work on the car while on a trip (of course I inspect things closely and top off fluids before taking a trip). Since Land Rovers are still in production, you can still get genuine factory parts :*) I get mine mail-order from New hampshire or England. If I am willing to pay overnight, I can get any part for the Land Rover new or used, next day. ============================================================================= 4. THINGS TO LOOK FOR WHEN SHOPPING FOR A LAND ROVER: To start, number one important aspect... FRAME, FRAME, FRAME... A second thing to bear in mind is when using guides to Land Rover purchase, if the guide is from the UK it will be a lot more tough on potential purchases than necessary. There are a lot of Land Rovers in the UK, so they can afford to be picky. In North America we must take what we can get, within reason of course. Another thing to bear in mind is that these are old vehicles. Finding someone to service it, who knows what they are doing, is remote. Be prepared to get your hands well and truly dirty. At minimum, buy the Haynes manual. Preferably buy the factory manuals. Read them. Do the regular scheduled maintenance. Land Rovers are oversized Meccano sets and properly maintaining them is *not* difficult. CHECKING UNDER THE LAND-ROVER: - Check the FRAME carefully for RUST damage. The frame is a thin walled rectangular tube shape, and is made of steel. In some parts of the country, it is not uncommon to find a Land Rover in good condition with a badly rusted frame. Take a hammer with you and firmly hit all crucial areas of the frame. If the frame dents, expect future problems, maybe sooner than later. At the front check behind the bumper (the spring hangers rust away), the shock absorber mounts and then the area around each of the bump stops. It is usually the rear bump stops that are the worst affected, where water and mud go between the chassis and the top of the bump stop mounting plate. Check the chassis outriggers. SWB cars suffer from problems on the right hand side below the rear edge of the door. The close proximity of the fuel tank encourages a build up of mud, which rarely dries out. This is also a difficult area to repair, with the fuel tank and wiring loom going through the frame at this point. Rear outriggers rust, but the big problem at the back is the main chassis behind the spring hangers. This is a major repair job that is both difficult and time consuming. Rot in the rear cross-member is also common. This area is vital for any towing, and on a LWB repair or replacement is made more difficult as the fuel tank must be removed. Resale value of a car with a rusted frame (if water gets in from the top, it can rust the frame from the inside) should be should be very low. However, new galvanized frames are available for around $3K. If you have time & inclination, & you stumble across a Land Rover in very good to excellent condition except for a rusted frame in the less than $1K range, you can add a new frame & get a great car. - The bulkhead is painted steel. Check it for rust. Repair panels are recently available. Figure repair costs into the value of the car. Check the bulkhead to chassis mounting points, the footwells and inner sides of the lower A-posts. Then check the area at the base of the ventilation flaps. Water gets in here and rots the lower corners of the windscreen surround. Check the metal around the top door hinge on each side. Water gets into the door posts and the plate with the captive nuts holding the hinges rusts away, or the nuts seize and plate rips out. You should expect to find rust around the master cylinders. It is possible to repair great portions of the bulkhead, but the work is awkward. - Oil on inside of wheels mean the inner oil seals are history and therefore so are the brakes (oil on the outside is a minor seal problem & doesn't affect the brakes. - Next look at the body above where the drive shaft mates to the differentials (front and back). If there is lots of oil on the body, the pinion seal is history and should be replaced before you accidentally run it out of oil. - There are two large ball joints on the front axle. Inspect these joints carefully for pitting. A pitted ball joint will leak oil away from the front wheel bearings and steering pivot points. The clean parts of these joints should be smooth, unpitted and rust free. Otherwise they need to be replaced. (actually some pitting is inevitable, but they should feel smooth to the touch.) These ball joints are expensive & require the disassembly of the front end. If the ball joints are badly pitted, subtract $1K for repairs. Excessive oil leaks could point to potential problems with a pair of top and bottom steering swivels and an ordinary Hardy Spicer-type universal joint. These run in a protective bath of EP90 gear oil, and though some oil loss is inevitable, excessive loss will lead to rapid wear of the swivels, and to a lesser extent, the universal joints. Dry seals probably mean that the housing is empty of oil. Steering swivels can be checked for wear by jacking up the front of the vehicle (with the weight in the suspension) and attempting to move the tyre in and out sharply from the top. SOme movement is acceptable, but if excessive could mean new swivel pins and universal joint overhauls. - Look at the drive flanges. If there are missing or broken bolts, it could mean that the threads are shot. The threads are very awkward to fix, so it can be another bargaining point. This is caused by owners over tightening the bolts, or forgetting to put anti-sieze compound on the bolts. - Wheel bearings are very large and robust, but the presence of aftermarket road wheels with different offsets could mean that the bearings could be in trouble. - Freewheeling hubs can cause problems. Unless the freewheeling hubs are engaged at least 10 miles for every 50 driven, rapid wear can occur in the steering swivels. A secondary problem that can happen to the differential and half shafts if the hubs are not engaged properly. If the vehicle is habitually run in high two or four wheel drive, all should be well. Selecting low ration in the transfer box for off-road automatically engages four wheel drive in order to split the torque and avoid overloading the rear axle. If the front hubs are disengaged, there is the danger of overloading the axle and damaging the rear drive shaft, and possibly the main gearbox output shaft. Note: Driving in four wheel drive on pavement can be damaging to the drive train. On pavement, the wheels cannot slip and adjust themselves, so you will "wind up" the drive train until it breaks. - Differentials are stong and robust units with most problems occurring in the rear differential when they have been abused. (Note: the crowns and pinions are the same as in the Rover P6 saloon) The problem at the rear is halfshaft failure (Most frequently on Pre-1965 LWB and FC models. Later Series II's have a Salisbury axle (recognised by the squarer casing) and the halfshafts in these are said to be basically unbreakable. Converting between rear axles is possible if the drive shaft is shortened. - Expect the engine and gearbox to be leaking oil (The British never could seem to get the knack of oil seals). Just assume that you should check fluids frequently. A leaking rear seal on the gearbox can lead to the gearbox brake drum filling up, but this should affect its operation that much. It should be noted that the vehicle will rock forward and backwards with the gearbox brake engaged as the drive train takes up any slack. - All Land Rovers leak. You will never seal one up, either for water getting in, or oil getting out. - Heaters are optional & different heaters may have been installed. Least desirable is the Smiths type with the cylindrical core. This is the same that comes in the TR3. The most desirable is called a Kodiak heater. It has a flat core in the firewall. This heater can quickly heat up a 109. Depending upon your location, you can add $$ for this heater. - Older Land Rovers have two windshield wiper motors, each controlling one blade. They both should work. These motors are expensive. If the motor runs slow the grease inside is dried up. Regreasing one is an easy afternoon project, so a slow motor should not be a concern. However, I would deduct about $200 for a non functioning wiper motor. STARTING THE ENGINE: - The engine should start easily and run extremely smoothly at 800 RPM. - Idle oil pressure should be 20lbs or better. Running oil pressure should be around 50lbs. - Pop the radiator cap and leave it off until the engine is warm. There should be no air bubbles (sign of leaky head gasket, cracked head). - Let the car idle. Unlike other British cars that shall remain nameless, it should show no signs of overheating in a prolonged idle. - You can also check out the electrical system while the car is idling. Cars equipped with push pull switches may require the knob to be wiggled a bit to work. This switch has exposed contacts that get oxidized over time. They are easy to clean up. - I do not remember the compression but they should be within 5 lbs or so. TEST DRIVING THE LAND ROVER: - When you drive a Land Rover, expect it to be noisy (no reason to have an expensive stereo here). - When you test drive the car use all gears as well as high and low range. It should be quitest in fourth gear. In pre- series III, DO NOT downshift below third gear while moving. There is no syncro there & the owner may be very unhappy if you were to take off a tooth or two. Be sure to try all 8 gear ratios forward and both reverse ratios. If you have a overdrive thats 16 forward & 4 reverse! The transfer case should smoothly go into & out of 4 wheel drive. - Expect series II transmissions to be louder in first, second and reverse gears since they are straight cut. Otherwise the transmission and transfer case should not be overloud. - When trying out the 4 wheel drive, make sure the front wheels are locked. If you turn the wheel while in 4WD and on dry pavement, expect to feel the steering wheel wobble a bit. This is normal under these conditions & does not happen on icy roads or off road. If you do not feel a wobble in the steering wheel while making a tight turn on dry pavement in 4WD, there is something wrong or you are not really in 4WD with the front hubs locked. - The steering should be smooth and have little or no freeplay. There should be no strange vibrations in either 2 or 4 wheel drive. Steering can be conceeded as heavy and ponderous, and if in top shape, nearly as good as rack and pinion. The design and number of ball joints will make it feel vague. Check the six balljoints, and if there is vertical motion, us this as a bargaining point to drop the price. They are not difficult to replace, and should run C$30 each to replace. Steering vagueness can be adjusted, but beware of your knuckles. A large lugnut needs to be released for the adjuster, and it takes a lot of torque. Adjustment can make a world of difference to the steering. The idler-relay mechanism on the front cross member rarely gives any problem, but if it does, you face real problems. Much of this mechanism lie within the frame and it is not that uncommon to have to chop that piece of the frame out to get it out, and weld a new piece in before refitting it. Before tackling the idler, read a workshop manual. There is a large heavy spring inside, under load, that can be dangerous. - Be sure to check he normal things, such as brakes, steering tightness, etc. - Its the slowest 4x4 on the road, but it is semi-indestructible, and built to be field striped in a jungle with a screwdriver and crescent wrench. LAND ROVER EXTRAS: - A tropical roof with air vents and upper windows is highly desirable. Add 2-3 hundred dollars to value. (This was standard on the 109 Station Wagon) - Add $500 for good condition overdrive. (note: 342 pounds from the UK in July 1993 for a new one.) - Add $700 to $1000 for Positraction differentials. (Assuming you can even find one. 101 Forward Controls are more common than these diffs.) - Newish door seals are worth an extra 2-3 hundred dollars (these are expensive and hard to put on). - Subtract $500 if car has LR six engine. - Leaky engine/tranny seals should not affect price as this is normal. - Doormobile anything are worth more. - Factory manuals are desirable. - Expect paint to be in bad condition and minor dents. - You should get prices for parts that need replacing and subtract those from asking price of LR unless seller has already taken this into account. - Engine swaps such as chevy 6 and 4 are common. The do not increase value. Be careful with Chevy 6 as it tends to overheat in LR unless installation compensates for location of cooling fan. Check this carefully for overheating. - Stay away from 8 cylinder swaps. They had to play some games to get it in there and value is way down. (Unless done via a kit from the UK and using the Rover 3.5l V8) - Most LR instrument panels have been modified. If it looks LR it should not change value. Subtract a few $$ if it looks JC Higgins or wood-working 101. VALUE: - Since Land Rovers are not common and have not been imported for a long time, many people have no idea what they are worth. Many sellers think that they are worth considerably more than they really are. California Doormobile $12K, 109 2 door $6K, 88 $4K, 109 four door $3K Eastern Ontario/western Quebec Doormobile $6k 109 4 door $6k 88 $3k Price will varry with location. Generally areas that saw a lot of Land Rovers will have lower prices. Land Rovers are concentrated in the British Columbia/US northwest and Ontario/ Quebec/US northeast for the most part. Canadian Land Rovers are generally cheaper than their American counterparts because of the greater number of them in Canada. Word of advice: If you really, really want a Land Rover, it can be cheaper to fly first class to some place, but a running, safety certified, and drive it home than pay an outragous price locally for a non-starter. Do your homework. If you can not get a distantly located Land Rover, but have an example nearby that may be over priced, or in poor condition, it may be worth your while to purchase it. It is your call... - These are for good condition runners that are essentially stock. If you look about you may find a fixer up in a field for considerably less. Bargains can be had from people who have no idea what they are worth. Excellent condition cars may command up to twice the above values. Ex-military Land Rovers command a higher price. You will pay the most through a Land Rover parts house. - Parts vehicles should run in the couple hundred dollar range or less, depending on location. - An estimated UK price would be about 1,000 pounds for a Series II with and MoT and years of useful life left in it. LWB models tend to be cheaper, diesels more expensive. A parts vehicle should run around 250 pounds. (1993) ============================================================================ GENERAL MAINTENANCE Below is a listing of various parts and part numbers that are generally required when you undertake general maintenance or a tune-up of your aluminium friend. This is just a partial guide to help you order parts from a local automotive store if you do not wish to go a longer distance for parts (See Section 9 in this FAQ) Because of the age of some of our Land Rovers, and the fact that many have had parts interchanged over their lives, it's difficult to give exact listing for everyone. Yours might be a little different. If in doubt, take the parts with you to the store or bring it with you Tune-Up Day and we will help figure it out. More complete sources for part numbers are available. The Land Rover Factory Parts Manual is the ideal source for information. Check with fellow Land Rover owners. Some of them are fanatics and may have a copy of this tome. Coolant: Four season coolant with rust inhibitors. Flush the system first. If an "O" ring gasket is required, the rear hub seal from a 1961 - 76 Austin Mini makes a good replacement. Thermostat: All models use a 160 degrees Farenheit unit. Parts: Land Rover 74c 532453 82c 596225 Gates 33006 Stant 336-160 Engine Oil: "Tight" engines with less than 50,000 miles: 10w40 "worn" engines with more than 50,000 miles: 20w50 Transmission- 90 EP Hypoid gear oil Differentials: Swivel Ball - 140 EP gear oil Steering: Fairey 50 EP gear oil Overdrive: Fuel filter: Remove and clean glass sediment bowl. If none, replace with an in-line filter between tank and engine/carb. Filters are available at any auto parts store. Same size as fuel line. Hub seals: Front and rear, double lipped seals for all models. Parts: Land Rover National: 410694 U-joints A bad U-joint can ruin the differential and gearbox bearings. Grease if they are of the type that have a grease nipple. Parts: Land Rover 2 15/16" from cap top to cap top RTC3291 3 7/32" from cap top to cap top RTC3346 Precision 1948-62 344 1963-76 369 Spicer 1954-59 5-4x 1969-71 5-153x Oil Filter Parts: Land Rover: 2.0l RTC3183 2.25l RTC3185 (long 6-13/16") RTC3184 (short 4-5/8") 2.6l RTC3183 (6 cylinder) Series I Series II & IIA From suffix "B" no. 25143369-C - Fram CH-853pl - Fram CH-834pl - Wipac OF-671 - Hastings P-186 - Kralinator L-891 - Kralinator L-532 Series II & IIA Series III From suffix "D" no. 27108243D - Fram CH-822pl - Fram CH-834pl - Hastings P-186 - Kralinator L-535 - Kralinator L-532 6 Cylinder - Fram CH-853pl - Wipac OF-671 - Kralinator L-891 ELECTRICS: ALTERNATOR Lucas 37 amp 16ACR Lucas 45 amp LRA 103 COIL Lucas all negative earth HA12 DISTRIBUTOR: The Distributor used on Series II, IIA, and early III Land Rovers is the same as found on the 1960's Austin Mini and numerous other British cars. It is a LUCAS 25D4. In the early-mid 1970's this was changed to the LUCAS 45D4 distributor. The 6 cylinder Land Rover used a Lucas 25D6 distributor. Knowing this, if you can't get your distributor cap for your 1964 Land Rover using the Land Rover part number, just ask for the distributor cap off of a 1968 Austin Mini. It will fit. Points: Lucas 25D4 TK-50 " 45D4 (cs-8) 54423769 Land Rover 2.25l petrol 1956-74 RTC3270 " " Lucas new type (red) RTC364 " " (blue) RTC6627 " " Military 24v FFR RTC6622 " " Duceellier type RTC6625 " " 6 cyl RTC3270 Blue Streak LU-1617XP Borg & Beck A-527 Echlin CS-207a Niehoff WA-106 Delco E-109 Condensor: Lucas 45D4 54429551 Land Rover 2.25l petrol 1956-77 RTC3472 " " Lucas new type RTC6621 " " Military 24v FFR 600730 " " Duceellier type RTC6620 " " 6 cylinder RTC3472 Blue Streak LU-206 Echlin EP-29 Filko 6 cylinder LU-65 Niehoff WA-226 Delco E-211 Rotor: Lucas 25D4 RA-1 " 45D4 54422803 Land Rover 2.25l petrol to -1976 RTC3612 " " Lucas new type RTC3614 " " Military 24v FFR RTC6628 " " Duceellier type RTC4933 " " 6 cyl RTC4542 Blue Streak 4 cylinder LU-300 6 cylinder LU-302 Echlin 4 cylinder EP-41 6 cylinder EP-44 Niehoff 4 cylinder WA-300 6 cylinder WA-313 Delco 4 cylinder E-407 6 cylinder E-302 Cap: Lucas 25D4 DC-6 " 45D4 (dc-8) 54427109 Land Rover 2.25l II, IIA Screw type 600328 " " IIA, III early push-in 566859 " " New type push-in RTC3278 " " Military 24v FFR 90600725 " " Duceellier type RTC4932 " " 6 cyl 539570 Blue Streak 4 cylinder LU-421 6 cylinder LU-429 CEW 4 cylinder 6008302 Echlin 4 cylinder EP-48 6 cylinder EP-55 Niehoff 4 cylinder WA-412 6 cylinder ---- Delco 4 cylinder L-307 6 cylinder L-310 GENERATOR Lucas C-40 Brushes: Lucas BS3-227541 Land Rover RTC3255 GLOW PLUGS Land Rover 568335 Champion AG45 KLG GF210/t SPARK PLUGS Parts: SI SII & IIA SIII 6-cyl from "B" from "D" Land Rover RTC3569 RTC3570 RTC3571 Bosch WR7DS (silver) " WR8DP (platinum) Champion N-5 N-5 N-9Y N-12Y N-5 AC 44XL 44XL 42LXS 44XLS 44XL Autolile 2616 2616 52 3205 2616 - for radio interference supression, get "R" designator STARTER Lucas Ser III petrol M418G " Ser III diesel M45G Land Rover petrol RTC5225E " " diesel RTC5232E SELENOID Lucas Petrol 76766 " Ser IIA diesel 76727E " Ser III diesel 76803 VOLTAGE REGULAT Lucas 4 cylinder w/alt RB340 " 6 cylinder 37565 Ford Tractor 6 cylinder DONN10505A TUNING LAND ROVER 2.25 PETROL ENGINES This is a brief "how to" guide for tuning your 2.25 petrol Land Rover. I hope it is not to vague. It is best to tune an engine when warm. Try to combine the tune)up with an oil change. After a lot of winter starts with the cold start (choke) on, a certain amount of gasoline blows by the piston rings into the crankcase, affecting the oil pressure, lubrication and the way the engine runs in general. So warm it up, change the oil, and then start with the valves. I know the valve cover plate says " Hot or Cold" but always try to adjust them hot (read warm). Follow this sequence: 1 open adjust 8, 2 open adjust 7, 3 open adjust 6, 4 open adjust 5 or visa/versa. Continue until all eight valves are adjusted. Open is when the valve spring appears as compressed as it is going to be. Remember, don't slacken off all the locknuts at once. and only adjust the valves (tappets) that require attention. Tight is, tight enough, on the locknuts. A good trick for the right adjustment is to go tight with the next larger size feeler gauge (0.011 inches). Then run the correct size through. It should feel just right, not loose, but not pinching or sticking. When you have adjusted all the valves then check the valves once again, maybe twice. This is a critical step in tuning your engine so take care and do it properly!!! Next, do a compression check, try to use a screw in type gauge. Disconnect the wire from the switch (SW side of the coil). Record the compression readings as you measure each cylinder. If you get exactly the same readings from each cylinder, great, but unlikely. Usually there will be some variation eg: 147, 150, 142 and 151 lbs. However if three readings are close and one is 100 lbs lower tha the other three, a tune)up is not going to help. Moving to the sparking plugs, (spark plugs). Plugs are relatively cheap, and vital to the performance of your engine. Throw away the old plugs and buy a set of new plugs. (not Crappy Tire's own brand). Use a spark plug gauge with an electrode adjuster and use it to adjust the spark plug gap. Do not assume the gap is correct straight out of the box and do not bang them on the bench or valve cover until you think they look right. Adjust for a 0.030 inch gap. Put a little anti)seize on the threads. and once again, tight is, tight enough. Now have a look at your distributor cap, rotor, spark plug and coil wires. If they don't look perfect, throw them under the front seat and fit new parts. Fit genuine Land Rover parts as there can be a significant difference in quality between original Land Rover and after market parts. Make sure the base plate to which the parts attach rotates freely. If it does not move, do not force it. You might remove it completely from the distributor and make sure the ce