From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:44:28 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Help me PLEASE! To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 18:05:12 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Andy Woodward" at Jul 1, 94 09:05:49 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 306 Status: RO Worried of Aberystwyth writes: > On the last tank of deisel my 90 did 35mpg. > > Is it broken? > Not yet..... Expect to find the engine missing any day. ( On the last tank my stage one V8 did 13.9mpg) "Wanna Swap????" 'Broke' of Balhannah P.S. At least it's about the same as the latest 'Cruiser. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:49:28 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Taxi! To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 9:42:23 BST Status: RO Stefan says that London taxi's came fitted with Perkins engines. In fact,although I'm not saying *none* of them were so fitted,most used a thing called the BMC 2.2 diesel.This *was* a dog.It had barely enough power to start the taxi from rest let alone permit any speed much faster than an arthritic snail could walk.However,despite this, some of these truly *awful* engines found their way into Land Rovers. In fact,when I was looking for A Land Rover,some eight years ago now,I was offered a 1964 SWB soft top,by LRO's very own Mr Ivins(who used to trade from a village garage about two miles from here).This scruffy old beast(the Rover,not Mr Ivins)had a BMC 2.2 in it,and such was its reputation that,desperate though I was getting,I gave it a *very* wide berth.However,this engine was most definitely *not* a Perkins. The Rover group currently fit a Perkins engine in the Montego car, namely the 2 litre Prima which I believe is Japanese designed possibly Mazda though I'm not certain.It got,I remember,an excellent press when it was first announced.LRO ran an article some time ago,where someone had fitted one into a ninety and was well pleased with the result. I was never quite certain,though,how he had overcome the problems caused by the fact that the Montego has a transverse engine,and he was using it in fore and aft mode. With regard to diesels detiorating(sp) with age,I dont find this is a problem.My 2.25 was 19 when it dropped a valve and had to have major surgery.Up until then,altough it *did* smoke,such smoking was not excessive,it started resonably well and ran smoothly enough.When I stripped it down,and it is a *very* easy engine to work on,I found that it still had its original pistons.I had an "in situ" rebore done fitted a seconhand head,with new valves,guides etc,and it started and ran first time.The crank miked up exactly to factory spec,even after all that time,so I could fit standard big end shells.Providing the injectors are looked after and the distributor pump is timed correctly excessive pong shouldnt be a nuisance.Admittedly,the rather feeble sreies wired heater plugs can be a pain,but replacing these with the Dieselglow parallel wired set at about 25 quid the lot should cure any potential trouble in this area.And yes,you *do* need a big battery! The trouble is,I think,that diesels are their own worst enemy,inasmuch as they have this reputation for reliability and longevity.This makes people think "its a diesel,it will last forever".It may do,but *not* without regular attention,any more than any other engine.Given the sort of maintenance that one would normally afford any engine its lifespan will easily outstrip its pertol counterpart. It has another advantage.When driving along,and you can suddenly smell petrol,relax,its not you! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:56:25 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Help me PLEASE! To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 9:49:40 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Andy Woodward" at Jul 1, 94 9:05 am Status: RO > > On the last tank of deisel my 90 did 35mpg. > > Is it broken? > > > 'Worried', of Aberystwyth > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Dear Worried, Dont panic.But you really *must* stop running it on its sump oil. It isnt fair to the rest of us. "Envious" of Loughborough. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:11:52 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Help me PLEASE! Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:05:49 UNDEFINED Status: RO On the last tank of deisel my 90 did 35mpg. Is it broken? 'Worried', of Aberystwyth +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:34:46 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:23:38 +0100 To: lro@stratus.com From: Robertslab Status: RO I think it is very rude to fail to notice one's requests to be removed from this list. If anyone is monitoring the activity of this list, would you kindly remove me from future messages. unsubscribe lro-stratus Brian Monks ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 05:50:45 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Taxi! Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 11:43:29 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Stefan says that London taxi's came fitted with Perkins engines. >In fact,although I'm not saying *none* of them were so fitted,most >used a thing called the BMC 2.2 diesel.This *was* a dog.It had barely >enough power to start the taxi from rest let alone permit any speed >much faster than an arthritic snail could walk.However,despite this, >some of these truly *awful* engines found their way into Land Rovers. But the reason these truly awful engines were used is that they'de go twice round teh clock with nobbut oil changes. The thing that reassures me most about the 2.5 normally aspirated desel (which they dont use anymore.......) is that it is put in taxis (Landrover deisels having a bit of a reputation for fragility). Taxis cant afford engines which give trouble before HUGE mileage. >The trouble is,I think,that diesels are their own worst enemy,inasmuch >as they have this reputation for reliability and longevity.This makes >people think "its a diesel,it will last forever".It may do,but *not* >without regular attention,any more than any other engine.Given the >sort of maintenance that one would normally afford any engine its >lifespan will easily outstrip its pertol counterpart. Depends on teh design. The deisel used in teh Mazda pickups is very fragile; as is the Landie 2.25 - being based on the petrol, and also having detacheable ingnition chambers! But somme of teh peugeots and Fords are bulletproof as are most marine and commercial deisels. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:23:20 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: LAND ROVER OWNER Magazine From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 08:38:23 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS Land Rover Owner and sister magazine International Off Roader have been sold to EMAP National Publications of Peterborough. Richard Thomas will stay on as a consultant for a while as the new editor MARTIN HODDER formerly of Popular Classics (another EMAP publication) settles into the swing of things. If you would like to write to Mr HODDER mail should be sent to;- Martin Hodder, LRO, Bushfield House, Orton Centre, Peterborough, Cambs, PE2 5UW. Personally speaking I think that Richard Thomas, the outgoing editor has done a tremendous job or bringing the magazine from obscurity to becoming the largest circulation UK 4 X 4 magazine. If you have any suggestions as to the direction / content that LRO should have then drop Martin a letter and let him know what you think. He is looking to hear what is right and what is in need of improvement aswell. Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 08:54:44 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:44:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, Jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy) Subject: Re: Landie Woes! In-Reply-To: <1994Jun30.192048.1074495@learnlink.emory.edu> Status: RO Sean, Sincerest sympathy and condolences over the loss. Rover withdrawl can be very painful. Try getting a copy of Hemmings at the B. Daltons. I haven't looked at this month but there might be something there. But beware it might add to the depression. Again, very sorry about the disappointment Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:06:19 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:50:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: RE: frame lore To: David John Place Cc: Keith Coman , lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO --------------------- On Thu, 30 Jun 1994, David John Place wrote: > I have always used an engine hoist to remove my transmissions, but my > friend uses a musch simpler set up. more more more....> YA know.....I've always just *heaved* the thing in and out of the chassis.... do you suppose that's why I've got a bad back?....I helps greatly if you tighten the hand brake adjustment right down so that the drum won't rotate..makes a *much* better hand hold that way..... steve... "HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!....................."IT'S NOTAJEEP"! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:30:58 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Taxi! To: Andy Woodward Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The reason that the rover diesel is not thought to be "bulletproof" is that *MANY* owners have put it to the test..."BLOODY "ELL! YA won't start AGAIN *EH*? Well! (reaching for the 30.06) We'll see about *THAT*,dag nab ya!....." :-) :-0 there were days................. steve..... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:40:57 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:27:53 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Salisbury Axles Status: RO What exactly is the story on the Salisbury axles. I know that they were the heavy duty set up for the Land Rover in the late 60s and early 70s (or at least I think so). Was this a custom job for Solihull or were these axles used on other trucks (ie is there anywhere else to look for them). With a Salisbury is the whole rear axle different or only part of it? Why are they so much stronger then the stock set up? Any info would be appreciated. Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:30:18 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Salisbury Axles To: Greg Hiner Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407011426.JAA22519@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I add what little I know to the story...I would *love* to be corrected! The Salisbury was a response to the snapped half shafts on the 109...particularly the ones in military service...the whole set-up is different.. the rover axle is a removable carrier design...much like light duty ford trucks here in the states, where the Salisbury is an intergral carrier type such as used on GM and heavy duty Fords and Dodges..these heavy duty axles are made by an outside firm,normally"DANA"....the salisbury *appears* to be a Dana "60" but is not...I do not know who actually makes the salisbury. The best way to identify the beast is that it has a removable rear diff. cover....(HEY! I could send it out to get CHROMED!!!....) to remove the ring,pinion or carrier,one must disassemble the gear set and remove the parts piece by piece....the whole axle is bigger and stronger (and HEAVY!!) they are set up only for the 109's and not the 88's..spring mounts are in the wrong place for an 88...could be cut and moved tho....the comp-safari crowd seems to not use them due to the great increase in un-sprung weight.... I picked up mine in the UK for under 100 quid(4.7 ratio).....the 109 axle with the 3.54 ratio was only used in the stage 1 109 and is very rare and the price reflects that rarity...200-300 quid and more! 110's use a coil sprung version of the salisbury.... fyi...the rear cover is often painted white...this is to reflect the convoy light mounted on the frame at the rear...you could follow the truck in front w/o the light being seen from above....unless you get too close and then you know where the front vehicle is...stuck in the radiator!!!! steve....... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:35:03 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 08:08:36 MST From: DEBROWN@srp.gov To: lro@team.net Subject: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 SUBJECT: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Hello all, I'm having quite a quandary over which vehicle to purchase. My heart and emotions want to get the Discovery, but as I intend to use it off road quite a lot, I don't want to feel that "fingernails on a chalk board" feeling when I go through the Arizona (USA) desert full of cacti and bushes. I'm also considering the Toyota 4-runner, (cheaper, and can get a used one that's already depreciated). I know the obvious advantages of the LR (Anti lock brakes, air bags, etc.) but have concerns about reliability, electrical problems (is it still Lucas, and are they better than the past years?) parts availability, etc. The 1 thing that I do like about the Toyota is it's reputation for being trouble free. Would you "all" please help me with this decision??? Obviously I AM leaning towards the Discovery, otherwise I'd post this to a Toyota group (if there is any). Someone please talk some sense into this confused puppy!!! Also, does anyone know any dealers in the Southwest United States that is willing to "deal". As the demand is HIGH for this vehicle, I have a hunch that they're not going to be willing to deal, making the difference between the LR and the Toyota even more! (Yeah, I know, you get what you pay for... Sigh...) Thanks a LOT!!! I DO appreciate any responses! debrown@srp.gov *** **** **** "Some men see things as they are and say why? * * * * * I see things as they never were and say why not?" * **** **** *** * * * -Robert Frost From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:29:55 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 11:17:01 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Help me PLEASE! Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: >Don't panic. But you really *must* stop running it on its sump oil. Reminds me of a tale Mike McCaig told at the last Rover outing. Before Mike got a job with the Commonwealth, he was farm manager on a 3,000 acre spread in Goochland County (about a third of which was cultivated) where they used these behemoth, eight wheel tractors to till the soil. One of his lads was plowing a mile-long field down by the James River when the oil seal on the turbocharger blew. This huge machine starts accelerating out of control, consuming engine oil in the process, and these things have *BIG* sumps. Even though the operator had the presence of mind to engage the implements to maximum depth and shut off the fuel, with both feet firmly applied to the brakes the monster keeps speeding up, spewing copious clouds of sooty black smoke. All the chap could do was hang on to this runaway volcano like grim death - there was no way to bail out - least the triple-width cultivators grind him into hamburger. Well, about 50 yards from trees/river at the end of the field, the machine finally runs out of oil. Though there was no real damage to the tractor, Mike says that three hours later the guy was still shaking. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:59:33 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 08:51:40 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@stratus.com Subject: muffler location for 109 4 door? Status: RO One of my summer projects is going to be putting a rear petrol tank in the back of my 109 two door. I have a new tank, a complete set of new fittings, and a filler set up for a 109 heavy duty pickup. Before I can start fitting the tank I am going to have to get the muffler moved. Where does the muffler normally sit in 4 door 109s? I do not want to put it in the obvious place behind the left front seat in front of the rear wheel because i plan to have a water tank installed there when I get the chance. I wonder how far I can get on three tanks? With two under seattanks, I can get from Monterey bay to garberville and have a quarter tank left. I wonder if I can get as far as Salem? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 11:06:18 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 08:57:44 PDT From: Bret Marquis (via RadioMail) Reply-To: bam@bang.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: 2 wheel rolling road? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO I've seen the caution notice in Range Rovers warning about "2 wheel rolling roads'. Ok, fine. But what is a 2 wheel rolling road? Bret Marquis From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 11:38:05 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 12:06:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: muffler location for 109 4 door? To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407011551.AA12660@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO TAA DAA! Station Wagon Man to the rescue!!!!! The muffler on the sw rides at angle just in front of the rear axle..from there the pipe goes up and over,PAST the rear tank,and exits behind the l/r tire...(*through* the mud flap,if ya got 'em)....SOOOOO if you use the real sw tank, there is enough room for it and the exhaust...it clears everything nicely...the front pipe is the same as the 109 2 dr...it will pass directly under the l\f tank....hhmmmmmmmm.I did not place a tank there as i was more concerened with safety than range...is california such a wilderness that ya cant get gas???? *I* need to get out and take a break every couple-o-states...the fuel gauge gives me a reason to stop *before* "rigor-rover" settles in....anyway,you need the centre pipe and the muffler/tail pipe..and the hangers will be in the wrong place,of course.... btw...there is a rear tank that is narrower to allow the passasge of the driveshaft for the rear PTO......You might think about using jerry cans instead...if you would only need the range once in a while, this is a lot of work and expense and complication just to say"I can drive 1000 miles between fill ups...."....I use an electric pump to pump the contents of the reserve tank into the main tank..12 into 19 gal....this prevents all the fuel line and gauge complication....gotta make sure that switch *never* get switched on with the rear tank full!.......mega-fire hazzard....I thought of using the sender from a diesel,with the low fuel contact, to act as an interlock on the pump switch...never got around to it...you know how *that* works...... steve..... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 11:51:04 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 12:28:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? To: Bret Marquis Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407011557.AA28732@radiomail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well,ya see this is the "Joey Chittwood Thrill Show",where they get the car up to speed and go up a ramp with just the left wheels and the car hurtles down the road with the door handles scraping pavement....not hte type of thing ya want to do with a Rangey.... Really, the rolling road is a set of rollers mounted in the floor that are used to measure brake efectiveness on vehicles for the MOT. (a similar set up is known as a chassis dynomometer and is used to do performance tests on the engine and driveline)....anyway, the"problem"with the late model range rovers is in the viscous coupling for the front and rear driveshafts...the land rover could uncouple the front and rear axle by slecting 2wd (high range only) the early range rovers automaticly uncoupled the axles through the center differential(if "unlocked")...with the new range rovers the drive is truly full time to front and rear,and if you drive one end ,the other end is gonna turn!...so if you put the front wheels on the rollers and start the test, the rear wheels will shove ya right off the rollers and into the Jag parked in front of them....OOOOOO! (this is thought to be bad manners....) I have no idea how they check the brakes on these vehicles...must have a set of movable rollers for the rear wheels and I guess they discount the braking effect from the rear wheels on the drive line.. now you know....(I hope) steve.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 14:27:17 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 12:18:36 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Status: RO In message <199407011528.LAA00702@transfer.stratus.com> writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist > AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 > SUBJECT: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? > Hello all, I'm having quite a quandary over which vehicle to purchase. > My heart and emotions want to get the Discovery, but as I intend to use > it off road quite a lot, I don't want to feel that "fingernails on a > chalk board" feeling when I go through the Arizona (USA) desert full of > cacti and bushes. I'm also considering the Toyota 4-runner, (cheaper, > and can get a used one that's already depreciated). I know the obvious > advantages of the LR (Anti lock brakes, air bags, etc.) but have > concerns about reliability, electrical problems (is it still Lucas, and > are they better than the past years?) parts availability, etc. The 1 > thing that I do like about the Toyota is it's reputation for being > trouble free. Thank you but in the 15 year I have owned my Land Rover, I have had one bulb and one flasher unit burn out. Thats it for my Lucas electrical system. Neither of those parts were Lucas. My Land Rover has always gotten me home (except for the time I ran out of gas and there was no open gas station). I can get any part on my Land Rover overnight UPS. In my not so humble chalvinistic opinion, the Tyota is not even in the running as a viable Lnad Rover alternative.0 > > Also, does anyone know any dealers in the Southwest United States that > is willing to "deal". As the demand is HIGH for this vehicle, I have a > hunch that they're not going to be willing to deal, making the > difference between the LR and the Toyota even more! (Yeah, I know, you > get what you pay for... Sigh...) Have you EVER heard of any dealer of any Marque & model discount a car that sells faster then they can get them in? Early Miata buyers paid a couple thousand over list for the privilige of getting one. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 14:50:08 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 12:42:30 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: muffler location for 109 4 door? Status: RO Gee THANKS station wagon man! Sometimes it is that far between gas stations in the high desert, but mostly its that far between cheaper gas stations (My ansestor's Scottish blood showing through here). The farther you head into the country, generally the more expensive the gas is. I should be able to save about $20 on a trip with the third tank. Petrol is 10 to 15 cents per gallen more expensive near my house then in the big city I work in. When you really get away from population centers, petrol can be up to 50 cents a gallon more expensive. If I can fill up in Oregon where the gas taxes are less, I would like to make it all the way home without having to hit one of those expensive out in the boonies stations. I have a 3 way valve on the front of my seat box to switch tanks and only one has a guage on it. I just make a point of using the guaged tank last. Seems to me like your aux. fuel pump & shifting gas from one tank to another is awfully complicated. I have one 3 way valve. A hose running from each tank to the valve, and one from the valve to the stock fuel pump. By using the tank with the guage last, i do not need to deal with changing the guages. When I start to feel the engine miss, I reach down & switch tanks. A couple of coughs later & back to speed. Rover made (makes?) an axillary tank that fits under the left seat over the exhaust pipe. They evidently thought it was safe. Mine came with this tank. It leaked and I converted to a stock under seat tank with external filler. My exhaust pipe does have a heat shield on it where it passes under the petrol tank. Thanks again, TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 13:55:17 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 14:45:01 EST Encoding: 218 Text To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Taxi! Content-Length: 206 Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > It has another advantage.When driving along,and you can suddenly smell > petrol,relax,its not you! Well it indeed may be you, but it most certainly isn't your Landie... ;-) Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 16:37:02 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@stratus.com Subject: So far so good.... Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 14:29:37 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I made it to Seattle with out a hitch. The Rover's running grate. The Rover will even maintain 65 mph up slight hills and 50 to 55 mph on all but the steepest despite the load and increased wind resistance of a full roof rack. The only thing that I don't like is too much weight in the roof rack make me nervous when I go around tight bends. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 23:22:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: diffs From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 22:40:10 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO OK, I think it was Steve who up the piece on differentials, correct about painting the rear ones white. If you look closely you might have noticed that some front ones are now also painted white. Explain pls! rgds Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 00:18:01 1994 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 94 01:11:46 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: my rover trip Status: RO leaving boston tomorrow. all of my possessions are in or on the rover (can you say too much on the roof rack). first stop is rochester ny, to say hello to the parental units. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 04:19:59 1994 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 02:11:12 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? Status: RO Without an overdrive, you're probably gonna travel along at 50-55 mph on the freeway (unless you're going uphill.) If you put in an overdrive, you can do around 70 mph comfortably. Of course, if you're going downhill in a tornado, you may be able to get a rover without an overdrive up to 60 or even 65. They're not the most comfortable vehicles in the world, but they are totally cool. My brother the lifeguard/professional student is thinking of selling his '74 camaro and buying a Land Rover partly because he thinks the Rover would be better for picking up girls. Rust on the frame is not a good thing. Depending on how bad it is, it could mean you'll need a new frame very quickly. If the vehicle's not running now, don't pay too much. Also keep in mind that there are probably going to be a lot of little problems that you'll run into before everything gets smoothed out. ("Previous owner" is generally synonomous with "nitwit") If you don't know about working on cars, you soon will. Get used to the smell of 90wt gear oil -- it will be with you all your days. I own two Land Rovers, and can't imagine not owning at least one. Warning: Once you become a Land Rover Owner, you can never go back. You might want to find out if there are any members of the Land Rover Owner's Association (LROA) in your area who could take a look at it and offer moral support. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 03:17:02 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 10:17:44 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: muffler location for 109 4 door? Priority: normal Status: RO > filler set up for a 109 heavy duty pickup. Before I can start fitting the tank > I am going to have to get the muffler moved. Where does the muffler normally > sit in 4 door 109s? I do not want to put it in the obvious place behind the > left front seat in front of the rear wheel because i plan to have a water tank > installed there when I get the chance. If yr going to go the whole hog and install all of these *very desirable* Landie additions, you might plan in terms of a custom exhaust system. Take a sheet of graph paper and plot a scale figure of yr Landie's underside with all the addos installed, then work out a exhaust system flow that gives you the clearance and aesthetics that you want -- i.e. plan the exhaust system around the mods. Any competent exhaust outfit should be able to fix you up. FWIW a popular system here in South Africa is to either make the system very short and have the tailpipe emerging from under the lefthand side about 1' aft of the front seat (this is very similar to the common "hotrod" layout, I imagine), or to simply make it as straight as possible down the left hand side with the muffler box cobbled inside the frame area under the left-rear door area. The overall design philosophy is to (a) get as much of a "free-flow" effect as possible (b) minimise kinks and bends that might retain mud and (worse) dry grass, (c) keep it simple in case you need to get it welded up in some bush-garage. Obviously all the above might be totally spurious if California traffic\vehicle regulations say otherwise. > I wonder how far I can get on three tanks? With two under seattanks, I can get > from Monterey bay to garberville and have a quarter tank left. I wonder if I > can get as far as Salem? Total fuel capacity minus safe reserve (say 15%) divided by average fuel consumption for planned driving conditions should equal range. BTW, don't forget the genuine 1940's-1970's British Army jerry- cans full of petrol and water --- pretty mandatory for *serious* safaris!! (:D)!! KRC * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 22:20:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: review rovers From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 02 Jul 94 20:56:03 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The June 27 issue of soldier magazine, the publication of the british army has a number of pictures of review vehicles in it. Page 5 has a berlin based RR of the early type with berlin Brigade registration shown with HRH Prince Charles reviewing the troops. Page 17 shows HRH QE 2 in an un registered new RR, the newest oone in the fleet i beleive on the beach at Arromanches reviewing the veterans during the D Day ceremonies. Page 26 has a 109 ser 3 review vehicle being used by HRH Prince Charles to review the troops of the Army Air Corps. Finally the rear cover has HRH Prince Philip reviewing veterans at Netley in Hampshire from an RR, very possibly the same one as on p 17. Not bad for a 52 magazine to have 8% Land Rover product coverage by pages. Rgds Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 3 08:23:01 1994 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 94 14:14:58 0 GMT From: Jon Ward Subject: Low Ratio Gearbox To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Status: RO I've just bought an 88" series 2 from my dad. It was built in 1971 and he bought it about 8 years ago. The people he bought it from told him that it had a special, low ratio, gearbox and the gearbox does indeed seem to have a very low ratio (40mph at top revs). However, I can't find any mention of such a gearbox in any Land Rover literature and I've started to wonder whether there's something amiss. One of my suspicions is that the transfer box might be stuck in low ratio. I hope that's not the case since the freewheeing hubs are currently stuck in the freewheeling position :-( Bit of a worry really. So I've two questions really: 1) Has anyone heard of a low ration gearbox for field work? 2) Is it possible to buy spare parts to mend the freewheeling hubs of will I have to buy new hubs? I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot from me as this saga progresses. jon .................................................................... | You are in a twisty little maze of standards, all conflicting. | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 3 19:27:51 1994 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 19:16:40 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Sender: David John Place Reply-To: David John Place Subject: Re: Low Ratio Gearbox To: Jon Ward Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO Let me know if you want the name and phone number of the fellow in Alberta. Dave VE4PN If the hubs are Warn, you will probably be able to get parts although the older brass ones are no longer made and the parts are not available. I had one bad one and could not get the handle part. I know of a fellow in Onoway Alberta who has some parts. They are very easy to fix however. They consist of really only two parts, a scroll gear, and a star gear which interacts with the spline on the hub. You simply screw the star into the spline as it were. Open it up and you will see how easy it is to fix. The centre screw although it looks like a strange head can be taken out. That is the screw on the back of the select handle. Clean all the parts and grease it up and put it back in service. If you have the other type of Land Rover hubs called Selectro, they are even easier to fix as they are just half circular shafts which are selected by flipping over two handles on each hub. They almost never give trouble but they are a bugger to get on and off at times and you may have to rock the vehicle to get them in or out. Farie (sp) the same company that makes the over drive also makes a common type but I don't have much info on them. Check out the J.C. Whitney Cat. because they have some complete sets for the Land Rover under $80.00, so it might be~r easies From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 3 21:50:37 1994 Date: 04 Jul 1994 14:37:57 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Success with LRO-Digest! Please Unsubscribe To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO Yes! I finally made it into the digest mode! Please unsubscribe me from the real-time list. Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 05:27:42 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: MOT's and the Road Rolls On. To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 11:18:47 BST Status: RO Steve's descrription of the "rolling road" as used in the MOT test,set me to thinking that perhaps it may be of passing interest to those who dont have to suffer this indignity,to know what is involved.I,for one,would certainly be interested to know what arrangements other countries have in place. First,MOT.Stands for Ministry Of Transport.The test is an annual one to be undertaken by a suitably licenced "testing station",usually a private garage,or in at least one case locally,a municipally run affair. The problems with certain private operators are obvious,ie they have a vested interest in failing the vehicle so that they can charge much lolly for putting right that which is not wrong in the first place.The tester *must* have passed the Ministry training course,otherwise he cannot operate,and he *must* have the relevant equipment(such as the rolling road mentioned).He is also subject to inspection by Ministry representatives. The test currently involves(and if I forget an item or two,I'm sure there are people who will fill in the list) Chassis(or equivalent on monocoque vehicles)must be free of holes and structurally sound.Repairs,if done,must be welds,pop rivetting,brazing, glued on patches are not acceptable. Bodywork must be free of defects dangerous to bystanders.Like if you have a jagged piece of metal hanging off somewhere,you're out.This is one of the dodgy ones because its a matter of opinion. Brake lines must have no rust,and flexibles must be in good nick,with no signs of bulges or imminent failure.Yah Boo!mine are copper:-) Steering must not have excessive play at the steering wheel,currently 1-2" free play,I beleive,for the Land Rover,there must be *no* give in any of the ball joints,steering swivels,or wheel bearings.This latter has been a constant source of argument with me over the years, since some of these dumbo's would like wheel bearings pre-loaded(true!) instead of the ten thou end flaot the manual says is neccessary. Shockers must be operating correctly.Land Rover's exempt here,since the method of testing shockers is to bounce up and down on the car.Well, you *can* jump on the Rover's bumper if you like,but it wont move far! All shocker and spring bushes to be in good condition,and with no play. Axles U-bolts to be tight.Steering box and steering relay checked for tight attachment to the vehicle. No fuel leaks permitted,sealing washers on tank filler cap to be intact. No holes in exhaust system. All lights to work as advertised *and to be of equal intensity side to side*.This is a new one someone dreamed up last year during a moment of boredom.Headlamps checked for direction and beam height,both full and dipped beam.ANY EXTRA LIGHTS YOI HAVE MUST WORK.So if you are halfway through installing a load light or foglamp,dont take it for the MOT until you have finished,or they'll fail it.I hadf one on that wasnt connected,and wouldnt have worked even if it *had* been,so I took it off,and binned it. Its worth mentioning here that the tester isnt allowed to take a spanner to the vehicle,all testing is done by pushing and pulling and tapping wiv a rubber 'ammer. Horn must work.Wipers/washers ditto,wiper blades to"sweep the full area". Seat belts to be present and correct and unfrayed.All mirrors to be clear and uncracked.Windshield to have no cracks in line of driver's vision larger than a pound coin (7/8" dia).Tyres to have legal tread depth over 2/3 of the tyre.This includes the spare if you,re daft enough to leave it in or on the car.But if it aint there,they cant test it,there is as yet no law that forces you to carry a spare.In fact,I'm not *too* sure that if the spare has a cover over it,that they are permitted to remove the cover. Brakes are tested on the rollers,Land Rover handbrake excepted,since it isnt a service brake,only a parking brake.It has to work,but the way my people do it is to *just* roll the Rover forward and apply the handbrake. One guy admitted to me he got clever with one Land Rover and tried to test the handbrake on the rollers.The owner had just refurbished this item so the Rover leaped off the rollers and headed for the wall.The tester had a nasty lump on his head!I told him he was damned lucky he wasnt being billed for a new half shaft,or worse. Exhausts are checked for emission levels.With petrol engines they are looking at CO emissions,but *no-one* knows what the diesel test is after.They are just told that the print out had to read less than a certain figure.As one guy said to me,"we wouldnt even know if the machine had gone wrong".Super. Older petrol engines are exempt from this(I forgrt *how* old) *all* diesels are checked,but '79 and previous it is a visual check only.(Breath sigh of relief).Actually,I jacked the hand throttle up to fast tickover,its *much* less smoky at speed. Most testing rules are not retrospective.For instance pre-1965,I think it is,seat belts are not mandatory,nor am I obliged to fit hazard flashers, but I *did* recently hear of a station that made a guy fit a number plate illumination lamp,because he didnt like the clear glass insert in the rear lamp of the 11A in question.I'm pretty certain he was outside his brief,and could have had a blck mark against him if the owner had complained.Personally, I *would* have complained. When all this is over,and you've passed,hopefully,you pay your 25 quid and get a piece of paper which has the gall to state that this does *not* offer any guarantee as to the roadworthiness of the vehicle!Without this bit of paper you cant Road Tax the vehicle.The bit of paper you get in return for your Road Tax money has to be the most expensive piece of paper,money/surface area,in the world.Its a three inch(or so)disc and costs 130 quid per annum. If you *dont* pass,you get a list of required repairs,and if you present the vehicle at the same place within 14 working day,the retest is free,and the only itms examined are those on which it failed. And there you go,folks.We hate the thing with a passion,mainly because we are maintaining a piece of machinery to a standard,but they wont tell us what the stanard is beforehand.Like,as far as I know,one cannot buy a test schedule. Its secret.Gawd! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 06:40:29 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: MOT From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 13:12:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO Thanks god my LR doesn't live in the UK...... What's an MOT like in Italy? First of all, until last year, a new vehicle had to pass its first MOT after 10 years, and then evry 5 years. Now, Italy has adhered to EC regulations, and an MOT is required every 2 years. Basically, an italian MOT consists of waiting a lot of hours in a long queue waiting for your turn, not much more.... :))) They just check the chassis numbers, lights, tyres, test the brakes on the rollers and make sure there are no major bodywork or glass damages. Nothing more. Very easy. But you could always pay something like 300.000 italian Lira (120 pounds, more or less), and pass your MOT with the help of a friendly tester.... There are no private MOT testers, it's a department of the Italian Ministry of Transports that runs everything, and I think this explains everything. I hope that this does not upset too much all you LR owners living in civilized countries...:) Ludovico ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it P.S.-While we could be lucky with our MOTs, Road Taxes in Italy are higher than everywhere else in the world, I think. If I had the back seats in my 88, I should pay something like 700 pounds a year. Vehicle age and market value don't count as parameters for your Road Tax. They look at a combination of engine size/horsepowers/torque, and add lots of money for diesel engines and 4wd. Without the back seats, and with minor modifications, my vehicle is classified as a commercial light truck, and I can pay something like 50 pounds a year (phew.....). That's what most 4x4 owners do..... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 12:49:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: fuel warning light From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 08:50:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Since we are talking about diesels, my favorite subject, how long before, once the blue low fuel light goes full on, before you run out of fuel? Last night I must have been close because the guage was below E. I did make it home. What is it with Land Rover fuel gauges that they only read half full when full, and decrease exponentially when it finally does decide to move. What does the regulator do? You know, the bi-metalic strip with the contact on the end. Is there a modern replacement? Now an unrelated observation. When the weather is cooler, there is a marked increase in top speed. I was moving at 60mph last night coming home. On the way out, I was luchy if I could do 50. Btw, my speedo is out from going to 16 inch tyres. I would be curious to know why it is that people don't supercharge diesels, with all that torque. I feel that turbos wear with all that exhaust heat. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 09:11:10 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 15:04:07 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Really, the rolling road is a set of rollers mounted in the floor that are >used to measure brake efectiveness on vehicles for the MOT. (a similar set >up is known as a chassis dynomometer and is used to do performance tests >on the engine and driveline)....anyway, the"problem"with the late model >range rovers is in the viscous coupling for the front and rear >driveshafts...the land rover could uncouple the front and rear axle by >slecting 2wd (high range only) the early range rovers automaticly >uncoupled the axles through the center differential(if "unlocked")...with >the new range rovers the drive is truly full time to front and rear,and >if you drive one end ,the other end is gonna turn!...so if you put the >front wheels on the rollers and start the test, the rear wheels will shove >ya right off the rollers and into the Jag parked in front of them....OOOOOO! >(this is thought to be bad manners....) Hate to disagree (actually, I just LOVE being disagreeable...), but no LR I've ever heard of has viscous diffs. (They SHOULD have em on front and rear axles, but that's another thread....) Damned good flamebait tho............ The reason is that the Rangeys, 90s and 110s have a central differential for their full time 4wd. If only one axle is turned, it knackers the central diff pretty damned quick since it's only designed to deal with small differential speeds. Similarly if you tow one of these with either end off teh ground, you MUST disconnect teh propshaft to the trailed axle (and preferably lock the central diff too just to be anally retentive) or the diff will be toast. (Sorry for taking this seriously, but someone might actually not know.) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 09:37:02 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Low Ratio Gearbox Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 15:23:09 UNDEFINED Status: RO >I've just bought an 88" series 2 from my dad. It was built in 1971 and he >bought it about 8 years ago. The people he bought it from told him that it >had a special, low ratio, gearbox and the gearbox does indeed seem to have >a very low ratio (40mph at top revs). However, I can't find any mention of >such a gearbox in any Land Rover literature and I've started to wonder >whether there's something amiss. >One of my suspicions is that the transfer box might be stuck in low ratio. >So I've two questions really: > 1) Has anyone heard of a low ration gearbox for field work? The visibility from Landrovers, especially hardtop LWB vans, is so terrible that Landrover include an entire special gearbox of 'parking ratios' to allow owners to manouever slowly into tight parking spaces in greasy-spoons without accidentally demolishing expensive 18 wheelers. You really wouldnt want to be stuck in parking ratio unless you lived in London, in which case, you'd not notice anyway. Hope this is helpful Andy +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 16:19:43 1994 To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Jul 1994 15:04:07 -0400." Date: Mon, 04 Jul 1994 14:13:32 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO >>anyway, the"problem"with the late model >>range rovers is in the viscous coupling for the front and rear >>driveshafts...the land rover could uncouple the front and rear axle by >>slecting 2wd (high range only) the early range rovers automaticly >>uncoupled the axles through the center differential(if "unlocked")...with >>the new range rovers the drive is truly full time to front and rear,and >>if you drive one end ,the other end is gonna turn!...so if you put the >>front wheels on the rollers and start the test, the rear wheels will shove >>ya right off the rollers and into the Jag parked in front of them....OOOOOO! >>(this is thought to be bad manners....) >Hate to disagree (actually, I just LOVE being disagreeable...), but no LR I've >ever heard of has viscous diffs. (They SHOULD have em on front and rear axles, >but that's another thread....) Damned good flamebait tho............ >The reason is that the Rangeys, 90s and 110s have a central differential for >their full time 4wd. If only one axle is turned, it knackers the central diff >pretty damned quick since it's only designed to deal with small differential >speeds. Hate to disagree with your disagreement, but I disagree. All North American spec Range Rovers since 1989, and I assume now the Discoveries also, have a viscous coupling in the center diff for the full time 4wd function. Not to be confused with locking front and rear diffs, you are correct, Land Rover has never offered them. ARB from those wonderful folks down under has a great locking diff for the front or rear of Landies and Rangies. These are not viscous couplings like the center diff of the RR, but a compressed air operated locking diff that essentially gives you a single solid axle, front or rear depending on where it was installed, providing 100% of the available torque to the wheels, even if one is not in contact with terra firma. rgds Mike Fredette 72 Ser lll 88 89 Range Rover 94 Discovery (yes, totally out of control) Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 21:17:48 1994 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 22:03:22 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: 88 vs 109 To: land-rover-owner@team.net Status: RO Hello, I am hoping to purchase a Land Rover as soon as my house sells and am trying to gain opinions on various Rovers. I have come to the conclusion that the 88 and 109 are very different beasts indeed. The 109 obviously has more room, but is the 88 a superior off-road vehicle? Any opinions on differences would be greatly appreciated! Also, is the Series IIA and III superior to older LR's or are the Series I and II worth a look. Thanks!! -J.B. PLRO (Potential Land Rover Owner) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 21:50:39 1994 Date: 05 Jul 1994 14:41:11 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 To: land-rover-owner@team.net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: land-rover-owner@team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >Date sent: Mon, 04 Jul 94 22:03:22 LCL >From: Joseph Broach > I am hoping to purchase a Land Rover as soon as my house sells >and am trying to gain opinions on various Rovers. Bad timing! I just sold my RangeRover so I could buy a house. If only I had known we could have traded. :*) Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 13:02:01 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 10:55:50 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, rjrlab@neb.com Subject: To get off X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1833 Status: RO for administrative stuff, send to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com OR lro-request@stratus.com OR Just use this, aim at ceter of screen!! ^ | | @#####@ (### ###)-. .(### ###) \ / (### ###) ) (=- .@#####@|_--" /\ \_|l|_/ (\ (=-\ |l| / \ \.___|l|___/ /\ |_| / (=-\._________/\ \ / \._________/ # ---- # # __ # \########/ It's also rude to blame others for your own ignorance. (___) (___) (o o) (o o) /-------\ / /-------\ / / | ||O / | O~ ||O * ||,---|| * ||,---|| ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ Bull A-bomb-in-a-bull No-bull Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 07:26 PDT 1994 > To: lro@stratus.com > X-Sender: rjrlab@vent.neb.com > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 636 > X-Lines: 16 > > I think it is very rude to fail to notice one's requests to be removed from > this list. If anyone is monitoring the activity of this list, would you > kindly remove me from future messages. > > unsubscribe lro-stratus > > Brian Monks > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > > New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 > Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 > 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com > Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. > ________________________________________________________________________________ > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 23:51:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: OVLR events... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 22:43:25 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO In vague detail OVLR (aka Dixon and the little boys up north (who like to have fun and have more than 120 Land Rovers between them & generally rebuild half a dozen a year) have the following general guideline to put forth to those interested, and those OVLR members on the net who rather read news here than in the newsletter. July 23rd: An off-road road building event. Near Ottawa, Land Rovers will assemble with winches, people with chain saws and the like to design and build a road through a wood lot. A learning excercise, this event is already over subscribed for participants. July 30th is the annual breakfast in Victoria Island in the middle of the Ottawa River off of Parliament Hill. For those local to Fourfold, the cost is $3.00 for breakfast and the chance to show off your favourite aluminium pet. Lat year saw fifteen Land Rovers appear. August 20/21st weekend is the Calabogie power cut/Flower Station Road off-road event. An over night adventure, this venture is classified as a light to medium off-road down a Hydro Ontario hydro cut and fire road west of Ottawa. By describing the event as medium off-road, the event does not include any heavy winching (if any serious winching at all, there is a gravel hydro road 100 metres off the Land Rover trail) and a route that will not damage your vehicle, though giving it plenty of opportinity to show off axle articulation. (For those into axle articulation, there is a side section off the main trail were an OVLR 101 Forward Control seriously embarrased an American vehicle a couple of years ago below he hydro dam.) Passabe by Land Rovers, not Japanese or American inter-lopers. September: Silver Lake, an overnight camping event with an off road course through Provincial lands with a static base similar to the OVLR Birthday Party, as opposed to the Calabogie power cut run which does not feature a static camping site on Saturday evening. The second September event is the Stowe British Invasion. Further details as they are announced. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 03:59:48 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: fuel warning light To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 9:46:43 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Dale Desprey" at Jul 4, 94 8:50 am Status: RO Dale, When the warning light comes on(red,in my case)you've got two gallons left,apparently.Just enough to get back from the pub as long as its not far,the way mine is drinking fuel at the moment.If your gauge doesnt read full when it should,there's summat up with the transmitter for a bet. Whadya mean sixty miles an hour? Sixty? Go on!Surely you mean sixty *kilometres* an hour.*Thats* more like it:-) It*will* go better in cool conditions,you are getting more air in during the inlet stroke.Which is the reason that intercooling is used to cool the air compressed in the turbocharger.Isnt the idea of a turbo to utilise some of the waste exhaust energy, whereas a supercharger requires energy to turn it? Enny road up,I cant say I would relish the thought of what *either* would do to my old three bearing 2.25,although I *have* seen a photo of an Allard turbo fitted to one.History didnt record whether the engine survived.I'd be interested to know whether you've recently had your injectoers set up,and/or the distributor pump retimed,and if so what effect it had on power and emmissions,also fuel consumption. If you can rattle along at sixty,you must have an overdrive,yes? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 05:28:09 1994 From: Ketil Kirkerud Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 12:16:33 +0200 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Jon Ward's message of Sun, 3 Jul 94 14:14:58 0 GMT Subject: Re: Low Ratio Gearbox Status: RO Subject: Low Ratio Gearbox To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com X-Mailer: LeeMail 2.0.4 I've just bought an 88" series 2 from my dad. It was built in 1971 and he bought it about 8 years ago. The people he bought it from told him that it had a special, low ratio, gearbox and the gearbox does indeed seem to have a very low ratio (40mph at top revs). However, I can't find any mention of such a gearbox in any Land Rover literature and I've started to wonder whether there's something amiss. This sounds like the "all-helical" tranfer box made for the 109" 1Tonne, which was/is supposed to have 9.00"x16 tires. I used to have one of these (tranfer boxes, that is) on my Landy, but I found it a bit tiring to redline the engine all the time (6000 RPM.. not fun...). So : I got myself an old standard tranfer box, complete with mainshaft (the mainshaft is different, between the two cases, so it couldn't be used), and rebuilt the whole thing. Originally I wanted to just install an overdrive, but... as the mainshaft is different, it won't fit (the overdrive, that is). One of my suspicions is that the transfer box might be stuck in low ratio. I hope that's not the case since the freewheeing hubs are currently stuck in the freewheeling position :-( Bit of a worry really. Is there any difference between high and low ? Try to get it up to about 20mph (in low range), which should be something like 4th. Try to shift into high range while moving (yes, this is OK, but you need to double-declutch, probably). You _should_ to notice a difference in gearing.. ---Ketil From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 18:16:08 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 9:07:11 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Hate to disagree with your disagreement, but I disagree. All North American spec > Range Rovers since 1989, and I assume now the Discoveries also, have a viscous > coupling in the center diff for the full time 4wd function. Not to be confused with > locking front and rear diffs, you are correct, Land Rover has never offered them. > ARB from those wonderful folks down under has a great locking diff for the front or > rear of Landies and Rangies. These are not viscous couplings like the center diff > of the RR, but a compressed air operated locking diff that essentially gives you > a single solid axle, front or rear depending on where it was installed, providing > 100% of the available torque to the wheels, even if one is not in contact with > terra firma. > rgds > Mike Fredette > 72 Ser lll 88 > 89 Range Rover > 94 Discovery > (yes, totally out > of control) > Portland, Oregon > I would hate to disagree with you on the ARB diff lock, they are only likely to blow something up when you need them, If you were going to get a diff lock, a Maxidrive or a Macnamara diff lock would be better, ARB just fit the locking mechanism to the standard rover diff, and don't even strengthn the axles, so if you have to use it,some thing will break. With the other two, they give you strengthened axles, and a four pinoin diff carrier, and work of vacuum instead of compressed air, the early macnamara diff locks worked by losening a nut on a modified drive flange, which let the long axle slip into the thing that holds the spider gears (the name eludes me) thus locking the diff, There are plenty of Land Rovers around Australia with this sort of diff lock, mine included, with are much stronger than an ARB diff lock. I mean if it is easy to blow up a diff or a half shaft with out a diff lock, imagine the amount of half shafts and diff centres you would go through if you put a diff lock on a standard Rover diff. Just my two cents worth. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 09:18:25 1994 To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: diff locks In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Jul 1994 09:07:11 EST." <9407042307.AA27991@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 07:09:02 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO >I would hate to disagree with you on the ARB diff lock, they are only >likely to blow something up when you need them, If you were going to get >a diff lock, a Maxidrive or a Macnamara diff lock would be better, ARB >just fit the locking mechanism to the standard rover diff, and don't even >strengthn the axles, so if you have to use it,some thing will break. >With the other two, they give you strengthened axles, and a four pinoin diff >carrier, and work of vacuum instead of compressed air, the early macnamara >diff locks worked by losening a nut on a modified drive flange, which let the >long axle slip into the thing that holds the spider gears (the name eludes me) >thus locking the diff, There are plenty of Land Rovers around Australia with >this sort of diff lock, mine included, with are much stronger than an ARB >diff lock. I mean if it is easy to blow up a diff or a half shaft with out >a diff lock, imagine the amount of half shafts and diff centres you would >go through if you put a diff lock on a standard Rover diff. > >Just my two cents worth. > >============================================================================== >Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" >mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) > > > > Craig, Across the pond here, we don't have quite as many goodies available to us for retro fit as you do in the UK and AUSTRALIA. The ONLY diff lock available here is the ARB unit, and at that, it's a pretty penny. $629.00 US for the diff and another $225.00 US for the bloddy compressor! So at almost 900 dollars a crack, not too many takers I'm afraid. We've never even heard of the other two units you mentioned above, how do they compare price wise to the ARB unit? Perhaps you could pass on some info as to price, addresses for availability, etc. I'm sure many of the US contingent on the net would be interested as the only other manufacturer here is the Detroit Locker unit for the Jeep, Bronco, Blazer, Toyota crowd (retch, gag), and I don't believe they make an application for the Landy. Correct me if I'm wrong all you folks out there who know for sure. I certainly didn't know of the ARB's shortcomings, I had heard it was a tough, trouble free addition to the capabilities of the Landy. rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 21:41:48 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 88 vs 10 To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 12:32:58 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > > Hello, > > I am hoping to purchase a Land Rover as soon as my house sells > and am trying to gain opinions on various Rovers. I have come to the > conclusion that the 88 and 109 are very different beasts indeed. The 109 > obviously has more room, but is the 88 a superior off-road vehicle? Any > opinions on differences would be greatly appreciated! Also, is the Series > IIA and III superior to older LR's or are the Series I and II worth a > look. Thanks!! > > -J.B. PLRO (Potential Land Rover Owner) > In what I have learned, SWB are better in mud, but LWB are better for steep rocky terrain. But generally its horses for courses. As for what series, there is no different between the series II, IIA and the III, but the series 1 does not have as much suspension travel, but the series 1 is lighter than the later models, as well as thinner, which is good for squezing down over grown tracks. But all are good off road. Just remember, the better you four wheel drive, the deeper in the brown stuff, and the further away from help you will be. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 13:40:45 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 11:34:58 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO In my humble view after researching all the available 4x4's in the US a Land Rover of one version or the other is of course the only way to go. None of the others are seriously designed for off-road use. The Toyota is probably one of the better ones in terms of ground clearance and reliability, but terrible in terms of ride and suspension travel, being nothing more than a warmed over pickup truck. On your first four wheeling trip in a Disco or RR particularly, and to some extent Defender, you will notice yourself running circles around the Toyotas and others as they rattle themselves to bits at a snail's pace on any sort of rough surface. For serious four wheeling you'd have to modify any non-Land Rover product; in the case4 of a Toyota I'd imagine diff locks would be essential due to the negligible wheel travel and stiff sway bars. Look underneath the various available vehicles and you will notice the difference in robustitude, so to speak; Land Rovers use a 14 gauge box section frame (all others use weak channel section), and heavy, fully floating axles (equivalent to a 1-ton US pickup). No doubt the antilock brakes, airbags, etc are nice, but the basics that make the LR so superior off-road are more than skin deep. Regarding expense -- I do think you're right of course and logically we should all get something cheaper. However, you only live once! What about a 87-89 RR (I got an 89 second hand); their prices are getting quite reasonable now, and they are better than a Disco off road as well as being "loaded" (this may send up a wail of protest on the net!!). All RR's up to 90, the '91 Hunter, and the '92 non-County model, are sans sway bars and will beat a Disco in rock crawling traction, as well as having a bit smoother ride overall. Sway bars compromise off-road ride and traction, despite what any advertising literature says. Reliability is probably not equal to a Toyota if we're honest, but not bad either. Anyway, hope this helps you internally justify a certain amount of extravagance!! John Brabyn Mill Valley, Ca 1989 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 13:48:45 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 11:37:03 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Just as a point of information -- Discoverys do not have a viscous coupling in the center differential, they have a manual lock. John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 14:12:45 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 12:02:27 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: DEBROWN@srp.gov Subject: Re: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Note also that should you choose the used RR route to save $, the rear suspension ion is better than a Discovery due to the load levelling device which allows soft softer springs to be used. This combined with no sway bars adds up to a big difference in traction in extreme articulation conditions. In the California and Nevada deserts (never been to Arizona) I've seldom found the bushes to be thick enough to worry about scratches -- perhaps you've found otherwise?? Good luck John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 15:58:35 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 13:51:18 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Black Rock Desert Status: RO I was up in the Black Rock Desert over the rebellion day weekend but saw no other Land Rovers. Where is everybody??!! John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 09:24:16 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 6 Jul 94 02:07:35 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Exhausts, Fuel Stuff, and Owls Head Content-Type: Text Status: RO Exhaust System: This weekend I installed a new exhaust system on my 88. I bought the system 2 years ago on sale from RN, but the existing system hadn't given me problems till now. The jury rigged system in place exited out the right, and I ordered a RH system. I noticed it came with an extra bracket not illustrated in the Land Rover Parts books. I planned on returning it on my next VT trip. Once I had it bolted up I found that it didn't quite sit right exiting out the right. After referencing all my books and manuals I realized that this frame was set up for a LH exit exhaust. After letting my brain boil for a few minutes it occured to me that Lanny had included this bracket for a reason. Upon examination I discovered that the bracket was a mirror of the hanger for the RH side of a LH exhaust. Again I poured through my books and photo albums and figured that this should go somewhere on the outside of the frame opposite the inboard RH hanger bracket, but I could find no holes to mount it. A call to RN was of no help on Saturday AM (they must have been closed for the holiday weekend) so I positioned it to provide the closest tailpipe proximity to those I had seen in the books and photos and drilled and tapped my frame (5/16 Coarse for strength in the fairly thin framewall). It seems OK and everything hangs fine now. I was a bit put off at first having to drill my frame (old but sound) but then I realized that the LH exiting exhaust is about $25 more than the RH, and seems to be freer flowing (no hairpin turns). The job took me the better part of a day, mostly due to my replacing the manifold-to-headpipe studs (I pulled the manifold, then replaced the gasket and hardware). They were badly corroded on the nut end, but did unscrew without snapping with some effort. I guess the Permatex Antiseize really does work on manifold hardware. I searched for stainless replacements locally with no success, and used some new hardware that I had left over from another job. Researching the bracket location took some time too. When I took it on the road I almost wished I hadn't replaced it. The smell of the aluminizing burning off running with the soft top rolled up was enough to make my eyes water. God it was awful. The first trip of 30 miles was horrendous. I coughed and sneezed my head off and I could feel my chest filling up. The second trip of 10 miles was better, and after a few more runs it is faint but still noticable when stopped. So, if you install an new genuine aluminized exhaust system, make your first run with the top secured, windows open and vents open. And don't stop. Fuel Stuff: On Monday I helped a friend install a tune up kit on his 88 that had been sitting for years. We had gotten it started 2 weeks ago but now it wouldn't fire, even with the new ignition kit. I sprayed brake parts cleaner into the carb as he cranked it and it fired right up, then died. I worked the fuel pump priming lever with the hose off the carb and got no fuel. I felt it had to be the pump but it primed just fine 2 weeks ago when we tried it the first time. I pulled the bowl off and found 1 1/2" of brown sludge. Yuk. Cleaned and replaced it. Pumped the primer. No good. Pulled the pump. The screen was blocked solid. Cleaned it and now the pump was working on the bench. Reconnected the line from the tank to the pump and worked the primer. The bowl began to fill with dark yellow fluid, and some black stuff that looked like a snake and moved like mercury. I've never seen anything like it. The black stuff rolled around the bottom of the bowl like it was alive, but didn't mix with the other stuff. Dumped the bowl and shot carb cleaner in the bowl. Then brake parts cleaner. The yellow stuff (Varnish?) wouldn't budge. I had to wipe it off with a paper towel. Sometime this week he will drain his tank and hopefully we can try again with fresh fuel next weekend. I hate to admit it but I really enjoyed doing all this. It must be a sickness. Owl's Head; If anyone went to Owl's Head please let us know it was. Things like turn out, air show, LR vendors vending, interesting vehicles, and of course, personality clashes. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 12:54:17 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 6 Jul 94 05:42:03 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Drop Arm Puller Content-Type: Text Status: RO Has anyone heard of or used a "Drop Arm Puller" for removing the arm from the steering box? I seem to recall one in an ad in LRO but cannot find it in the last few issues. The box in my IIA seems to be leaking alot. I replaced the side and bottom cover gaskets and it's not leaking there. As far as I can tell it's coming through the splined shaft hole and I would like to try replacing the O-ring. I had tried a heavy duty gear puller on my III steering box when I had the engine out, but it just wasn't enough. I didn't try to lever it off for fear of damaging the ball bearings or races. If anyone could let me know where and how much I'd really appreciate it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I called Anne Cornwall at the LRO bookshop to order the Land Rover Experience and some other books this morning. She always seems so amused that I call so early in the morning ("wot's the matter love, can't sleep or something?"), and that most of the US customers call later in the day. I'm amused that anyone would wait until after 7:00AM and pay the standard (maximum) instead of economy rates. I'll post how long it took once I get it. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 17:05:45 1994 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 16:55:27 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Russell's shirt Status: RO Russell...I don't have your E-mail address, so I have to post this to the net. I've got a long-sleeved T-shirt waiting for you. My regards to Nige, my recent clutch work notwithstanding. Jan: T-shirt two went out today. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 03:30:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 09:24:16 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Just as a point of information -- Discoverys do not have a viscous coupling >in the center differential, they have a manual lock. So do all the 90s, 110s and Rangeys in the UK. I dont know if they are modified for the US market by addition of a viscous coupling, but it's the first I've heard of one. Also, there are still an astonishing number of folk (including lots of motor journalists) who think that the diff lock locks the axles as well!!! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 06:49:31 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: The View from Space To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 12:38:19 BST Status: RO To paraphrase Robert Ivins,of LRO fame "It is said that there are two things immediately noticeable from space.The Grand Canyon,and the build gaps on a Land Rover".He *was* talking about Range Rovers, but its the same difference. This was brought home to me last week,when I sat regarding with some apprehension the ever widening build gap bettwen Daisy's passenger side door top and its sealing rubber.I remember thinking that its all very well,but the gap *really* shouldnt vary between zero and about three inches.Indeed,the likelihood of *losing* the door top altogether was becoming a distinct possibility.Nor was the door bottom in any better state.In fact,the entire assembly was rather less rigid than a sheet of canvas,and old and floppy canvas at that.I had long been inured to the pleas of my family about the draught,being rained on,and being told to hang onto the window lock to prevent the tops involuntary removal in high winds.The trouble was,from the outside,the door was as new,a lovely clean,unmarked panel that *looked* as solid as Gibraltar.The inside,on the other hand,was a mass of rust.Painted over,I grant you,but rust nevertheless. Now any fool can go out and buy a new door,top and bottom,but I really *work* at being an idiot.Besides that,any job I start at nine in the morning has to be finished by about five in the evening,so I can be back on the road.So it had to be a secondhand door.So it was that Saturday morning saw me grinding over the hills of North West Leicestershire to the nearest place where such an item could be had.A telephone call the previous day had established that yes,they had such items,and that depending on condition the price was between fifteen and forty quid. Now this place is distinctly odd.For a start,it is on an industrial estate bang in the middle of nowhere.For another thing,they have no sign outside saying who they are.The sign is *inside*,so you know where you are once you have got there.Stands to reason,doesnt it?Also,having arrived,you have to *work* at getting them to part with what they have,and to take your money. Actually,the latter is relatively easy,its the former that takes the time. As an illustration,a lad wanted an inlet manifold for his S11.He wasnt sure about certain details,but the Land Rover was parked outside.Could the chap behind the counter step outside and have a look?Could he heck as like.It took and good five minutes negotiation to achieve this.Arrive between twelve and one o'clock? Go away,we are having our lunch.You want a seconhand door? Hmmmmm....well...I *suppose* you can come upstairs and see what there is,it will be easier than me having to bring more than one down here...Th estrange thing is,they arent a bit surly with it,just exhibit this wierd reluctance.And all the time you are concious of a bearded gnome like figure regarding you silently round the workshop door. That;'s the other brother,he's the shy one,wont come anywhere near a customer.He just does repairs. Away I went (eventually)the proud possesor of and old door,glass,lock etc for twenty quid.Even the window channels were OK.The colour wasnt, but I'd got loads of paint.Once home,I removed the door lock,mine was in better shape,laid the thing flat on a pair of trestles and got out the paint and my trusty two inch brush.Fifteen minutes later,the door was Deep Bronze Green,the *only* working Land Rover colour.Next,to remove the floppy thing from Daisy.Surprise,surprise,the bolts moved! You need long arms to do it on your own,piece of cake for an Orang Outang,but with perseverence and bad language it can be done.Note: Doors,passenger,Land Rover S11A for the use of,one,are *heavy*. Particularly if you forget the opening restricter inside.You have an armful of struggling aluminium,hanging on to mother for dear life. Deep breathing helps.Beer helps even more.I had to settle for deep breathing.On with the "new" door.You know those build gaps?Theyve gone.The bloody door catches on the hardtop.The lockis too low for the door pillar catch.The trouble with secondhand bits is they tend to grow to fit the vehicle they come off.And the bloke that replaced the window channels would have done the job quicker if he'd done it properly.No channel at the back,so the window shut onto bare metal, and the fixed glass held in at the front with the bit that *should* have been at the back. Fortunately I had a spare hinge pin kit which,fitted into the bottom hinge,raised the door so it fitted.A rat tailed file on the door pillar enlarged the catch fitting holes si it could be lowered.Spacer pieces off the old door,and the relocation of the wrongly fitted bit of channel ensured(relatively) draught free motoring.And alloy angle piece from the old door fitted where it should go on the new one.I only broke two drill bits as well!It *was* necessary to loosen off the top channel and relocate it so that the window would open and shut *without* the application of a hi-lift jack.A coat of paint on the inside,and we were away. However,there is still a problem.How to get the family to shut the door normally,ie slam it.Years of me saying"With the right hand,grasp the bracing strip halfwat up the door,pull in in and lift,at the same time with the *left* hand lift the door handle.......".And I cant stop *myself* either.You really cant win can you? Cheers Mike Rooth (With apologies for the lenght of the Ramble) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 13:32:01 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 23:39:57 EDT Subject: Re: diffs Status: RO Robin asked... > OK, I think it was Steve who up the piece on differentials, correct about > painting the rear ones white. If you look closely you might have noticed > that some front ones are now also painted white. Explain pls! My understanding is that after a certain amount of time or miles you are supposed to swap differentials front to back, back to front, this would explain why some front diffs were white unless both were white when the front was replaced with a rear. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 15:35:39 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 09:46:30 EDT Subject: Re: MOT Status: RO Oh boy... I don't even want to go into what the MOT equivelents are here in the states -they are called State Inspections - every state is differant and range from the ridiculous (Pennsylvania - twice a year) to the the sublime (Tennessee - once, I think, when the car is new) But I will chip in this bit. I was stationed in Turkey while in the US Air Force. Vehicle inspections there were done by Government stations and consisted mostly of checking headlight alignment and making sure your exhaust pipe was parallel to the road surface. They did check serial numbers on the block and chassis or body and the whole deal was accompanied by the usual assortment of official government stamps. Two packs of cigarettes on the dash would assure you of a passed inspection!! Cheers Mike Loiodice From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 10:51:37 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 11:40:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: 80" left wing Status: RO Folks, While at the (Inter)National Rally @ Derby a fellow named Nick Howard asked me to help find a home for his 80" leftside front wing - he would like to swap for an 88" wing (I think?) Nick is in the UK and can be reached at nickh@reading.sgi.com John John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 12:38:00 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 10:18:07 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: azw@aber.ac.uk, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Status: RO The viscous coupling was introduced as poart of the new Borg Warner transfer case in 1989, replacing the LT320 or whatever it's called which is still used in other models. It seems to work pretty effectively as a center diff lock for all practical purposes and just allows enough movement for steering on hard surfaces -- the tires chirp a bit on tight turns on concrete. It's nice not having to worry about locking it manually! As you say, RRs before 89 (in the US) had the manual lock too. I don't know when they switched in the UK but it may have been after 89. Yes, I too have found that automotive journalists often display an abysmal ignorance of Land Rover technology! John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 18:45:23 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 17:25:48 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: MOT Status: RO At the risk of attracting more immigrants, but they would bring Rovers with them, Montana has no MOT!!! :`) :`). Yet, that is. But I have not heard any rumblings from the legislature regarding making up some kind of MOT. I can omly hope that some lame brain doesn't come up with the idea. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 18:40:48 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 16:33:26 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au, lro@team.net Subject: Re: diff locks Status: RO I would certainly agree about the need to strengthen things when you install a diff lock since by the nature of the beast you will end up with 200% torque on one axle if the other wheel is off the ground. If you're willing to modify the Series 1 away from stock anyway, why not fit a coil suspension (I thought I read somewhere of one being available?) and reduce the need for a diff lock in the first place through softer springs and more travel. Just an off the wall thought John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 19:51:18 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 17:34 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407062325.AA01025@mtnoca.helena_noc> (rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com) Subject: Re: MOT Status: RO In Tennessee, there is no inspection. There was a bill introduced to the state legislature several years ago to add one. I remember AAA opposed it, the reasoning being that there were many more cost effective ways of improving highway safety. James From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 00:17:43 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 07 Jul 94 01:08:43 EDT Subject: New Address! Status: RO Howdy all.. I'm moving.. at least my E-MAIL address is. New E-Mail address is landrover@delphi.com Original, eh? Cheers, Mike Loiodice landrover@aol.com --> landrover@delphi.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 02:59:46 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 08:49:46 UNDEFINED Status: RO >The viscous coupling was introduced as poart of the new Borg Warner >transfer case in 1989, replacing the LT320 or whatever it's called >which is still used in other models. It seems to work pretty effectively >as a center diff lock for all practical purposes and just allows enough >movement for steering on hard surfaces -- the tires chirp a bit on tight >turns on concrete. It's nice not having to worry about locking it >manually! As you say, RRs before 89 (in the US) had the manual lock too. >I don't know when they switched in the UK but it may have been after 89. Damn! Should have waited longer to get my 90! The question that now springs to mind is - if theyve gone for viscous central diff, why didnt they do the job properly and put em on both axles as well. Or were they just being humane to the competition? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 18:11:41 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: diff locks To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 8:57:28 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > >I would hate to disagree with you on the ARB diff lock, they are only > >likely to blow something up when you need them, If you were going to get > >a diff lock, a Maxidrive or a Macnamara diff lock would be better, ARB > >just fit the locking mechanism to the standard rover diff, and don't even > >strengthn the axles, so if you have to use it,some thing will break. > >With the other two, they give you strengthened axles, and a four pinoin diff > >carrier, and work of vacuum instead of compressed air, the early macnamara > >diff locks worked by losening a nut on a modified drive flange, which let the > >long axle slip into the thing that holds the spider gears (the name eludes me) > >thus locking the diff, There are plenty of Land Rovers around Australia with > >this sort of diff lock, mine included, with are much stronger than an ARB > >diff lock. I mean if it is easy to blow up a diff or a half shaft with out > >a diff lock, imagine the amount of half shafts and diff centres you would > >go through if you put a diff lock on a standard Rover diff. > > > >Just my two cents worth. > > > >============================================================================== > >Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" > >mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) > > > > > > > > > Craig, > > Across the pond here, we don't have quite as many goodies available to > us for retro fit as you do in the UK and AUSTRALIA. The ONLY diff lock available > here is the ARB unit, and at that, it's a pretty penny. $629.00 US for the diff > and another $225.00 US for the bloddy compressor! So at almost 900 dollars a > crack, not too many takers I'm afraid. We've never even heard of the other two > units you mentioned above, how do they compare price wise to the ARB unit? Perhaps > you could pass on some info as to price, addresses for availability, etc. I'm > sure many of the US contingent on the net would be interested as the only other > manufacturer here is the Detroit Locker unit for the Jeep, Bronco, Blazer, Toyota > crowd (retch, gag), and I don't believe they make an application for the Landy. > Correct me if I'm wrong all you folks out there who know for sure. I certainly > didn't know of the ARB's shortcomings, I had heard it was a tough, trouble free > addition to the capabilities of the Landy. > rgds > Mike Fredette > mfredett@ichips.intel.com > Portland, Oregon > I found some guff on Mc Namara Diff locks last night, but does not menchion any thing about price. These diffs are advertised on LRO, but for those that don't get (Not likely) here is his address and phone number. 25 Levanswell Road Moorabbin 3189 Victoria, Australia. Telephone Numbers. S.T.D. (03) 555 2213 I.S.D. 613 555 2213 Now I have been informed that his cabin operated diff locks are more expensive than ARB's, but there are also stronger, but his spring loaded diff lock, which I have fitted to my Series 1, is around $900 Australian. He also sells diff strengthening kits from memory too. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 19:17:01 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: diff locks To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) (John Brabyn) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 10:04:11 EST Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9407062333.AA26933@skivs.ski.org>; from "John Brabyn" at Jul 6, 94 4:33 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > I would certainly agree about the need to strengthen things when you install > a diff lock since by the nature of the beast you will end up with 200% torque > on one axle if the other wheel is off the ground. > > If you're willing to modify the Series 1 away from stock anyway, why not > fit a coil suspension (I thought I read somewhere of one being available?) > and reduce the need for a diff lock in the first place through softer > springs and more travel. > > Just an off the wall thought > > John > To fit coil springs would be a major hassle, first I would have to find a Rangie chassie, and the money to buy it, then I would need to cut it up to fit the car, and get it all welded up by some-one with a DLI ticket, and then try and get pass an engineer, which is a bitch, they made my brother fit a heater, when he fitted his v8. In Australia, and modifications have to be checked out by an engineer. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:08:43 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:42:57 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rover Sign. Status: RO Michael Bertrand writes: > Well, hello everyone! Just got home from a great Rover shopping day. > Went to Rover's North and bought a whole bunch of goodies (they have > great specials on) and a also bought a rare find in a Montreal british > parts place. I bought a genuine Land Rover dealer sign! It's oval, about > 3 feet by 3 feet and Yellow with the grees Land Rover letters. It used to > be one of my rovers dealer in the Eastern Townships in Quebec! > > I'm thinking of installing it on the ceiling in my bedroom right > over my bed. Hmmmm, I wonder what my girlfriend will say. Sounds like a great idea! Make sure she knows what's *really* important! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:02:13 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:44:52 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Standard CB Channel? Status: RO Okay, so you're speeding down the freeway in 4th Overdrive, and there going the other way is another Land Rover that you've never seen before. So you switch on the CB and start interrupting conversations on all channels trying to get the attention of this person. But they're on channel 40 and you start off on 1... Is there a standard Land Rover CB Channel? When up in the desert with Scotty, we used channel 7, and at the national rally 2 years ago, we used ch 4 & 7. If there is a standard channel, what is it, and if not maybe we should pick one? (7 sounds good to me. That's what I've been using.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:46:28 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:44:55 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu, Jules@learnlink.emory.edu Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO T. F. Mills writes: > Speaking as the owner of the fastest Rover in the West (1966 109"), > I'd say don't even think of getting by without overdrive if you plan > on much highway driving (unless, of course, you have all time in the > world and don't mind dirty looks as you hold up traffic much as a > tractor would). How fast does yours go? What kind of engine do you have? My '59 109" cruises comfortably at about 70; I could probably get it up to 75 on a steep downhill. I know of a guy with a V-8 in a sIII 88" that has reportedly done over 100mph. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:05:00 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:06 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO Since it sure seems like there are a *lot* of Land Rovers here in the Bay Area, maybe we should plan a picnic or BBQ or something so we can all get together and meet each other? Being a City boy, I'd prefer somewhere in SF, but I would show up in the east bay as well. Any thoughts? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 09:59:43 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:09 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: BAKC@giraffe.ru.ac.za, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. "Inclinometers"! Status: RO I've got a couple of those inclinometers, and I agree that it's not the best thing to be looking at when driving off-highway (that's my girlfriend's job), but they are interesting, and living here in The City (San Francisco, Ca) the one on the side provides some interesting information (and can be somewhat distressing when you know you have to work the clutch sitting on a 22 degree hill with a beemer sitting on your tail.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 09:58:00 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:12 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rover Names Status: RO I've not really settled on a name for my 109" yet... I thought of "Judas, a chariot", but that was voted down... "The 5-cent beast" was liked, but seems a bit unwieldy (that story will show up in the Aluminum Workhorse one of these days). I kinda like Monticello, both because my nickel mishap and because I'm a big fan of TJ, but I think that's kinda presumptious, no? So far, it's been INDY 1, as that's what the plates say. Haven't even started to think of a name for my 88". (Have to wait until the battle for possesion between my brother and girlfriend is settled first.) If it's any help, the Chevy Van I used to have (and loved) was named Sweet Pea... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:48:27 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:23 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: azw@aber.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing Status: RO > In my experience, of my visits, teh fuel is so much cheaper than EUROPE, > AND THE INCOMES FOR A PARTICULAR JOB ABOUT TWICE AS GREAT IN REAL TERMS > AS FOR THE EQUIVALENT bRIT, THAT FULE COSTS AR(bugger this terminal!!!)e > simply not a consideration for private motorists. I could run a Toyota 1 > tonne pickup in the States for the same as it cost me to run a CG125 > motorbike in teh UK!!! > > So who cares about getting more mpg from a deisel? These guys are > completely happy with 15mpg from a car that would bankrupt us! > > Fuel costs are so trivial as not to be a concern. > I wouldn't say we're "completely happy" with 15mpg... Some of us do care about the environment. Unfortunately, though, Land Rovers do get about 10-15mpg... or do they? I'm sure that if you guys on that side of the pond have to pay a lot more for petrol, you must get your gas mileage pretty high up. How do you do it? Any tips on improving gas mileage? And while I'm thinking about it... Has anyone ever heard of a Landie being converted to electric? I'm thinking about this fate for an 88" for commuting... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 09:58:39 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 10:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: LRO@stratus.com Subject: Re: How about the Land Rover Defender In-Reply-To: <2vca0v$j1g@happy.cc.utexas.edu> Status: RO Some people just have no idea: >Defender 90 is smaller and has a soft top. Basically, the Defender 90 >is a large Jeep (CJ/Wrangler Style). When I was at the dealership, the >salesman described the Defender 90 as "a Jeep on steriods." This >description is somewhat accurate. Put Quite simply, Land Rover outclasses any thing else on this Planet. Bar none. nuff said Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 11:38:01 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 09:26:09 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: sinasohn@crl.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO In message <199407071445.AA00692@crl2.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > Since it sure seems like there are a *lot* of Land Rovers here in the Bay > Area, maybe we should plan a picnic or BBQ or something so we can all get > together and meet each other? > > Being a City boy, I'd prefer somewhere in SF, but I would show up in the > east bay as well. > > Any thoughts? > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > A LAND ROVER meet in a CITY???? I can just picture a line of off road cars sitting along Van Ness, or at Fisherman's warf. How about moving it a little outside the city? say San Gragario beach? I can see it now, a circle of Land ROvers with the barbees cooking away in Fan Francisco's famed china town, followed up by a little off roading through the Golden Gate park rare plant collection ;^) I'll be camping out of my Land Rover along the Oregon coast between July 16 and 24 (out taking pictures). I will be happy to join in in a local Land Rover meet any other time outside a big city. Slight change of subject. Land Rover is the featured Marque at the Portland All British Field meet on the labour day weekend. I will be car camping up a couple of days ahead of the meet. Anyone South of Portland interested in going to the meet as a group? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 11:59:03 1994 Date: Thu, 07 Jul 1994 09:49:49 PDT From: Bret Marquis (via RadioMail) Reply-To: bam@Bang.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: 90 RR thoughts To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Hello Folks.. I have a 90 Range Rover with 65k miles. Its had some minor problems over the 4 years I've had it. A few bizarre electrical problems during the first couple of months (with the cruise control on, driving at exactly 61mph, the air conditioning compressor would shut off - replaced computer). Otherwise no major out of pocket expenses. Land Rover did endear themselves to me by replacing the transmission a couple of months ago at mostly their expense 30k miles out of warranty (first shift of the day was slow). I've been considering trading it in on a newer vehicle. The new RR at $54k does not appeal to me and the other models don't seem like a step up. My concerns are mostly maintenance ones.. If I continue using the one I have off road, am I likely to start seeing major expenses on a regular basis? Whats real world expectations for the next 5-8 years? Pointers and thoughts appreciated.. Bret Marquis bam@bang.com --- Original Message --- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 14:40:24 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 12:31:51 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com, brabyn@skivs.ski.org Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 183 Status: RO How about a beach on the pennisula or one of the East Bay parks? Chabot, Sunol, Mt. Diablo? No wait,! The Pelican Inn at Muir Beach! it's a real, genuine, British pub. R, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 15:34:20 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 13:22:41 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Serial Numbers X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 247 Status: RO Gang, Is there someone out there in Roverland that can give me the year of manufacture for these serial numbers? My manual stops at 1961. 244 07108a (registered as 1964) 244 19257B ? I know the 244 is; SIIa 88 export. Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 14:08:20 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 11:52:43 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO Sounds like a good idea -- but having it in a civilized place like the City might not be optimal??? John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 15:46:16 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 13:37:46 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: bam@Bang.COM Subject: Re: 90 RR thoughts Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Another thought would be to trade it in on a newer but still used RR such as a 92 92 with low miles? Personally if it is used off road I'd stick to the non-swaybar models such as the 91 Hunter or 92 regular (non-County) model but your preference may be different. Supposedly in 91 (I think) they replaced many of the lucas sensors with Siemens ones to increase reliability. I can understand the price of the new RRs being a bit off-putting -- they are certainly way out of the question for me! I am hanging on to mine until it dies! Another factor in considering a new one is that I know there is a new RR model about to coming out at the Birmingham Motor Show this October (4.5 liter 32 valve engine, rounder body shape but same basic chassis) and some people might wish to wait for the model change -- the first major one in 24 years. Personally, from the photos I've seen they've spoiled the look of the vehicle by making it too much like all the other sport utilities -- pretty boring. John Brabyn Mill Valley, Ca 89 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 15:51:26 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 13:42:06 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com, twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO I second TerriAnn's suggestion about not having it at Fisherman's Wharf. John Brabyn Mill Valley From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:26:59 1994 Date: 07 Jul 94 17:11:10 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing Status: RO >I'm sure that if you guys on that side of the pond have to pay a lot more >for petrol, you must get your gas mileage pretty high up. How do you do >it? Any tips on improving gas mileage? >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Uncle Roger >sinasohn@crl.com Sure, switch to a TDi ! (Oh no, there goes John Hong again...) Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:24:20 1994 Date: 07 Jul 94 17:11:16 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Rover Names Status: RO >I've not really settled on a name for my 109" yet... I thought of "Judas, >a chariot", but that was voted down... "The 5-cent beast" was liked, but >seems a bit unwieldy (that story will show up in the Aluminum Workhorse one >of these days). I kinda like Monticello, both because my nickel mishap and >because I'm a big fan of TJ, but I think that's kinda presumptious, no? > >So far, it's been INDY 1, as that's what the plates say. > >Haven't even started to think of a name for my 88". (Have to wait until >the battle for possesion between my brother and girlfriend is settled >first.) > >If it's any help, the Chevy Van I used to have (and loved) was named Sweet >Pea... >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Uncle Roger >sinasohn@crl.com If the Chevy was 'Sweet Pea', how about calling the 109 "Ol' Sour-Dough" ? (:-> Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:25:30 1994 Date: 07 Jul 94 17:11:21 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: diff locks,coil suspension Status: RO Craig Murray from Down Under wrote: >To fit coil springs would be a major hassle, first I would have to find >a Rangie chassie, and the money to buy it, then I would need to cut it up to >fit the car, and get it all welded up by some-one with a DLI ticket, and then >try and get pass an engineer, which is a bitch, they made my brother fit a heater, >when he fitted his v8. In Australia, and modifications have to be checked out >by an engineer. In England someone makes galvanized ready converted 'rolling' coil-sprung chassis (i.e. with axles, wheels, brakes, springs etc. fitted) for series III Landies (I suppose by drilling a few extra holes you could just as well fit a S.IIa) for around 3,000.- GB-Pounds. Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:33:14 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 07 Jul 94 17:16:43 EST Encoding: 808 Text To: bam@Bang.COM, brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re[2]: 90 RR thoughts Content-Length: 791 Status: RO John writes: > Another factor in considering a new one is that I know there is a new RR model > about to coming out at the Birmingham Motor Show this October (4.5 liter 32 > valve engine, rounder body shape but same basic chassis) and some people might > wish to wait for the model change -- the first major one in 24 years. This new model is positioned above the current Rangey. Can't imagine what they're going to charge for it... However, the changes to the current Rangey (dash, airbags, etc) and the new models being introduced, both the Highlander (rumored name) and the Discovery have an effect on prices of late model used cars. '92s and '93s are going cheap in my area! Everyone wants to upgrade to the latest and greatest...good news for the few of us on a budget... Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 18:20:51 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: diff locks,coil suspension To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 9:08:11 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Craig Murray from Down Under > wrote: > > >To fit coil springs would be a major hassle, first I would have to find > >a Rangie chassie, and the money to buy it, then I would need to cut it up to > >fit the car, and get it all welded up by some-one with a DLI ticket, and then > >try and get pass an engineer, which is a bitch, they made my brother fit a heater, > >when he fitted his v8. In Australia, and modifications have to be checked out > >by an engineer. > > In England someone makes galvanized ready converted 'rolling' coil-sprung > chassis (i.e. with axles, wheels, brakes, springs etc. fitted) for series III > Landies (I suppose by drilling a few extra holes you could just as well fit > a S.IIa) for around 3,000.- GB-Pounds. > > > Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> > LROC of Hessen > Wiesbaden, Germany > > You would not need to change the chassie at all to get a series IIA body to fit, as they are the same, but I own and 86" series 1, and there are big differences in chassies to the later vehicles. ie. I would have to cut (never never never never!!!!!!!) the bulk head and put later model pedals in, and I would have to fit a hydrolic clutch like the series II. And still you need the money to buy it. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria Inc. 2.25 Desiel (Soon!) mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 20:34:03 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: How about the Land Rover Defender To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 10:57:51 +0930 (CST) Cc: LRO@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jon Humphrey" at Jul 7, 94 10:49:33 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1510 Status: RO Jon Writes: > Some people just have no idea: No Kidding! > >Defender 90 is smaller and has a soft top. Basically, the Defender 90 > >is a large Jeep (CJ/Wrangler Style). When I was at the dealership, the > >salesman described the Defender 90 as "a Jeep on steriods." This > >description is somewhat accurate. > 90's are not available in OZ to my knowledge (OK Craig correct me now :-) An ex pat pom in the local LR Register has a 3.9efi auto 90 ute. This thing is truely awesome. Granted he knows how to drive it. At a club run a month or so ago he got bored with "follow the leader" and took a short cut... Straight up the side of the quarry wall. I could not have walked up this thing. Loose gravel and clay, washouts, side slope no problem! What about the ~2 foot (60cm) vertical bit in the middle??? No problem either, bury the throttle just before it then lift right off, 90 rises on coils, "jumps" the lip, then back on the throttle and over the top. Now I'd like to have seen a jeep try that. After the rest of us picked up our jaws one of the younger less conservative (more stupid??) members tried it in an 88. With a big run up, lots of wheel spin and a big slide to the left about half way up (couldnt jump the lip) he made it ... Just. The rest of us were left wondering why the '88 hadnt rolled! > Put Quite simply, Land Rover outclasses any thing else on this Planet. > Bar none Showing my bias I'll second that. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 22:53:31 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 21:41:48 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Isolated Ground Status: RO Michel, I do beleive that your comparisions to other Rovers is valid. All the electrical theory I learned made me start questioning how the wiring is grounded. And started me thinking about the isolated ground that the phone industry uses. I don't think changing the positive ground was really needed, but considering the alternator you re-fitted it was clearly the right thing to do. You did just what I will be doing with my 62. When the new/old frame goes under her, all new wiring goes in also. My other two will just have to get along with better grounds and some being isolated. Working on that with the 58 right now. Anything other than how Lucas originally had it will be an improvement. The stronger sound from your starter is not an illusion. If you got under there and measured the amps going to it I am sure it would be a higher reading than a non-isolated ground Rover. Luminisity is indeed a word but is usually used in ref. to the amount of light an object reflects. Go show on your wire job. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - Montana the Big Sky Country. PS - Your email address bounced for me. I was also considering a main battery cut out. Just a thought. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 01:12:39 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 23:58:36 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Gretting From the Travelers Status: RO Hello folks, Ben has made it to Montana and sitting next to me. And Jory made it late last night and is sitting on my left. So far so good for me (this is Ben). The Rover is running well despite being so loaded. Just about every large bump (like the boundary between some bridges and the` firm ground) results in a resounding thump as the axle hits the frame (and a groan from me). I'm really considering replacing the rear 88 springs with 109 or military springs. I'm not really carrying all that much mass. (6 passengers would weigh more). As another note when I visited Ben Freeman and saw hos Rover I noted that under the dashboard on his Series II I there were three holes (about 3in by 4 in) that were open to the vents. My Rover has no sign of these. Jory's Rover also has these vent holes. I thought that those holes would be really useful for driving in hot conditions (like by the Salton Sea or LA as I drove out (105 + degrees!)) So is this normal for early North American SIIIs? (Mine is the ~400th US SIII. In anycase I decided that I wanted these vent holes, so I used Jory's dremel tool and cut two of the three holes before darkness forced me to end for the night. Jory: Since I have to be in SF be monday, I've been pushing it (17 hours of uphill driving yesterday). The rover's been running pretty well, but I think I would enjoy some supplement to the uypper end power for climbing hills (turbocharged? gerbils in wheels? etc...) I am occasionally smelling what seems like a burning rubber smell, but I cannot find anything amiss. Anyone have any ideas? I stopped several times and checked everything... After driving 31 hours in 2 days, arriving at Roy's (with it's ever-exciting concept of showerage) was a godsend. After regaining some