From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:44:28 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Help me PLEASE! To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 18:05:12 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Andy Woodward" at Jul 1, 94 09:05:49 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 306 Status: RO Worried of Aberystwyth writes: > On the last tank of deisel my 90 did 35mpg. > > Is it broken? > Not yet..... Expect to find the engine missing any day. ( On the last tank my stage one V8 did 13.9mpg) "Wanna Swap????" 'Broke' of Balhannah P.S. At least it's about the same as the latest 'Cruiser. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:49:28 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Taxi! To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 9:42:23 BST Status: RO Stefan says that London taxi's came fitted with Perkins engines. In fact,although I'm not saying *none* of them were so fitted,most used a thing called the BMC 2.2 diesel.This *was* a dog.It had barely enough power to start the taxi from rest let alone permit any speed much faster than an arthritic snail could walk.However,despite this, some of these truly *awful* engines found their way into Land Rovers. In fact,when I was looking for A Land Rover,some eight years ago now,I was offered a 1964 SWB soft top,by LRO's very own Mr Ivins(who used to trade from a village garage about two miles from here).This scruffy old beast(the Rover,not Mr Ivins)had a BMC 2.2 in it,and such was its reputation that,desperate though I was getting,I gave it a *very* wide berth.However,this engine was most definitely *not* a Perkins. The Rover group currently fit a Perkins engine in the Montego car, namely the 2 litre Prima which I believe is Japanese designed possibly Mazda though I'm not certain.It got,I remember,an excellent press when it was first announced.LRO ran an article some time ago,where someone had fitted one into a ninety and was well pleased with the result. I was never quite certain,though,how he had overcome the problems caused by the fact that the Montego has a transverse engine,and he was using it in fore and aft mode. With regard to diesels detiorating(sp) with age,I dont find this is a problem.My 2.25 was 19 when it dropped a valve and had to have major surgery.Up until then,altough it *did* smoke,such smoking was not excessive,it started resonably well and ran smoothly enough.When I stripped it down,and it is a *very* easy engine to work on,I found that it still had its original pistons.I had an "in situ" rebore done fitted a seconhand head,with new valves,guides etc,and it started and ran first time.The crank miked up exactly to factory spec,even after all that time,so I could fit standard big end shells.Providing the injectors are looked after and the distributor pump is timed correctly excessive pong shouldnt be a nuisance.Admittedly,the rather feeble sreies wired heater plugs can be a pain,but replacing these with the Dieselglow parallel wired set at about 25 quid the lot should cure any potential trouble in this area.And yes,you *do* need a big battery! The trouble is,I think,that diesels are their own worst enemy,inasmuch as they have this reputation for reliability and longevity.This makes people think "its a diesel,it will last forever".It may do,but *not* without regular attention,any more than any other engine.Given the sort of maintenance that one would normally afford any engine its lifespan will easily outstrip its pertol counterpart. It has another advantage.When driving along,and you can suddenly smell petrol,relax,its not you! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:56:25 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Help me PLEASE! To: azw@aberystwyth.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 9:49:40 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Andy Woodward" at Jul 1, 94 9:05 am Status: RO > > On the last tank of deisel my 90 did 35mpg. > > Is it broken? > > > 'Worried', of Aberystwyth > > > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Dear Worried, Dont panic.But you really *must* stop running it on its sump oil. It isnt fair to the rest of us. "Envious" of Loughborough. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 03:11:52 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Help me PLEASE! Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:05:49 UNDEFINED Status: RO On the last tank of deisel my 90 did 35mpg. Is it broken? 'Worried', of Aberystwyth +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:34:46 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:23:38 +0100 To: lro@stratus.com From: Robertslab Status: RO I think it is very rude to fail to notice one's requests to be removed from this list. If anyone is monitoring the activity of this list, would you kindly remove me from future messages. unsubscribe lro-stratus Brian Monks ________________________________________________________________________________ New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. ________________________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 05:50:45 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Taxi! Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 11:43:29 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Stefan says that London taxi's came fitted with Perkins engines. >In fact,although I'm not saying *none* of them were so fitted,most >used a thing called the BMC 2.2 diesel.This *was* a dog.It had barely >enough power to start the taxi from rest let alone permit any speed >much faster than an arthritic snail could walk.However,despite this, >some of these truly *awful* engines found their way into Land Rovers. But the reason these truly awful engines were used is that they'de go twice round teh clock with nobbut oil changes. The thing that reassures me most about the 2.5 normally aspirated desel (which they dont use anymore.......) is that it is put in taxis (Landrover deisels having a bit of a reputation for fragility). Taxis cant afford engines which give trouble before HUGE mileage. >The trouble is,I think,that diesels are their own worst enemy,inasmuch >as they have this reputation for reliability and longevity.This makes >people think "its a diesel,it will last forever".It may do,but *not* >without regular attention,any more than any other engine.Given the >sort of maintenance that one would normally afford any engine its >lifespan will easily outstrip its pertol counterpart. Depends on teh design. The deisel used in teh Mazda pickups is very fragile; as is the Landie 2.25 - being based on the petrol, and also having detacheable ingnition chambers! But somme of teh peugeots and Fords are bulletproof as are most marine and commercial deisels. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:23:20 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: LAND ROVER OWNER Magazine From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 08:38:23 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO NEWS NEWS NEWS NEWS Land Rover Owner and sister magazine International Off Roader have been sold to EMAP National Publications of Peterborough. Richard Thomas will stay on as a consultant for a while as the new editor MARTIN HODDER formerly of Popular Classics (another EMAP publication) settles into the swing of things. If you would like to write to Mr HODDER mail should be sent to;- Martin Hodder, LRO, Bushfield House, Orton Centre, Peterborough, Cambs, PE2 5UW. Personally speaking I think that Richard Thomas, the outgoing editor has done a tremendous job or bringing the magazine from obscurity to becoming the largest circulation UK 4 X 4 magazine. If you have any suggestions as to the direction / content that LRO should have then drop Martin a letter and let him know what you think. He is looking to hear what is right and what is in need of improvement aswell. Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 08:54:44 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:44:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, Jules@learnlink.emory.edu (Sean P. Murphy) Subject: Re: Landie Woes! In-Reply-To: <1994Jun30.192048.1074495@learnlink.emory.edu> Status: RO Sean, Sincerest sympathy and condolences over the loss. Rover withdrawl can be very painful. Try getting a copy of Hemmings at the B. Daltons. I haven't looked at this month but there might be something there. But beware it might add to the depression. Again, very sorry about the disappointment Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:06:19 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:50:58 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: RE: frame lore To: David John Place Cc: Keith Coman , lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO --------------------- On Thu, 30 Jun 1994, David John Place wrote: > I have always used an engine hoist to remove my transmissions, but my > friend uses a musch simpler set up. more more more....> YA know.....I've always just *heaved* the thing in and out of the chassis.... do you suppose that's why I've got a bad back?....I helps greatly if you tighten the hand brake adjustment right down so that the drum won't rotate..makes a *much* better hand hold that way..... steve... "HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!....................."IT'S NOTAJEEP"! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:30:58 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:03:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Taxi! To: Andy Woodward Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The reason that the rover diesel is not thought to be "bulletproof" is that *MANY* owners have put it to the test..."BLOODY "ELL! YA won't start AGAIN *EH*? Well! (reaching for the 30.06) We'll see about *THAT*,dag nab ya!....." :-) :-0 there were days................. steve..... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 09:40:57 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 09:27:53 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Salisbury Axles Status: RO What exactly is the story on the Salisbury axles. I know that they were the heavy duty set up for the Land Rover in the late 60s and early 70s (or at least I think so). Was this a custom job for Solihull or were these axles used on other trucks (ie is there anywhere else to look for them). With a Salisbury is the whole rear axle different or only part of it? Why are they so much stronger then the stock set up? Any info would be appreciated. Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:30:18 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 10:50:13 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Salisbury Axles To: Greg Hiner Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407011426.JAA22519@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I add what little I know to the story...I would *love* to be corrected! The Salisbury was a response to the snapped half shafts on the 109...particularly the ones in military service...the whole set-up is different.. the rover axle is a removable carrier design...much like light duty ford trucks here in the states, where the Salisbury is an intergral carrier type such as used on GM and heavy duty Fords and Dodges..these heavy duty axles are made by an outside firm,normally"DANA"....the salisbury *appears* to be a Dana "60" but is not...I do not know who actually makes the salisbury. The best way to identify the beast is that it has a removable rear diff. cover....(HEY! I could send it out to get CHROMED!!!....) to remove the ring,pinion or carrier,one must disassemble the gear set and remove the parts piece by piece....the whole axle is bigger and stronger (and HEAVY!!) they are set up only for the 109's and not the 88's..spring mounts are in the wrong place for an 88...could be cut and moved tho....the comp-safari crowd seems to not use them due to the great increase in un-sprung weight.... I picked up mine in the UK for under 100 quid(4.7 ratio).....the 109 axle with the 3.54 ratio was only used in the stage 1 109 and is very rare and the price reflects that rarity...200-300 quid and more! 110's use a coil sprung version of the salisbury.... fyi...the rear cover is often painted white...this is to reflect the convoy light mounted on the frame at the rear...you could follow the truck in front w/o the light being seen from above....unless you get too close and then you know where the front vehicle is...stuck in the radiator!!!! steve....... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:35:03 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 08:08:36 MST From: DEBROWN@srp.gov To: lro@team.net Subject: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 SUBJECT: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Hello all, I'm having quite a quandary over which vehicle to purchase. My heart and emotions want to get the Discovery, but as I intend to use it off road quite a lot, I don't want to feel that "fingernails on a chalk board" feeling when I go through the Arizona (USA) desert full of cacti and bushes. I'm also considering the Toyota 4-runner, (cheaper, and can get a used one that's already depreciated). I know the obvious advantages of the LR (Anti lock brakes, air bags, etc.) but have concerns about reliability, electrical problems (is it still Lucas, and are they better than the past years?) parts availability, etc. The 1 thing that I do like about the Toyota is it's reputation for being trouble free. Would you "all" please help me with this decision??? Obviously I AM leaning towards the Discovery, otherwise I'd post this to a Toyota group (if there is any). Someone please talk some sense into this confused puppy!!! Also, does anyone know any dealers in the Southwest United States that is willing to "deal". As the demand is HIGH for this vehicle, I have a hunch that they're not going to be willing to deal, making the difference between the LR and the Toyota even more! (Yeah, I know, you get what you pay for... Sigh...) Thanks a LOT!!! I DO appreciate any responses! debrown@srp.gov *** **** **** "Some men see things as they are and say why? * * * * * I see things as they never were and say why not?" * **** **** *** * * * -Robert Frost From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:29:55 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 11:17:01 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Help me PLEASE! Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: >Don't panic. But you really *must* stop running it on its sump oil. Reminds me of a tale Mike McCaig told at the last Rover outing. Before Mike got a job with the Commonwealth, he was farm manager on a 3,000 acre spread in Goochland County (about a third of which was cultivated) where they used these behemoth, eight wheel tractors to till the soil. One of his lads was plowing a mile-long field down by the James River when the oil seal on the turbocharger blew. This huge machine starts accelerating out of control, consuming engine oil in the process, and these things have *BIG* sumps. Even though the operator had the presence of mind to engage the implements to maximum depth and shut off the fuel, with both feet firmly applied to the brakes the monster keeps speeding up, spewing copious clouds of sooty black smoke. All the chap could do was hang on to this runaway volcano like grim death - there was no way to bail out - least the triple-width cultivators grind him into hamburger. Well, about 50 yards from trees/river at the end of the field, the machine finally runs out of oil. Though there was no real damage to the tractor, Mike says that three hours later the guy was still shaking. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 10:59:33 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 08:51:40 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@stratus.com Subject: muffler location for 109 4 door? Status: RO One of my summer projects is going to be putting a rear petrol tank in the back of my 109 two door. I have a new tank, a complete set of new fittings, and a filler set up for a 109 heavy duty pickup. Before I can start fitting the tank I am going to have to get the muffler moved. Where does the muffler normally sit in 4 door 109s? I do not want to put it in the obvious place behind the left front seat in front of the rear wheel because i plan to have a water tank installed there when I get the chance. I wonder how far I can get on three tanks? With two under seattanks, I can get from Monterey bay to garberville and have a quarter tank left. I wonder if I can get as far as Salem? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 11:06:18 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 08:57:44 PDT From: Bret Marquis (via RadioMail) Reply-To: bam@bang.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: 2 wheel rolling road? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO I've seen the caution notice in Range Rovers warning about "2 wheel rolling roads'. Ok, fine. But what is a 2 wheel rolling road? Bret Marquis From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 11:38:05 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 12:06:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: muffler location for 109 4 door? To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407011551.AA12660@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO TAA DAA! Station Wagon Man to the rescue!!!!! The muffler on the sw rides at angle just in front of the rear axle..from there the pipe goes up and over,PAST the rear tank,and exits behind the l/r tire...(*through* the mud flap,if ya got 'em)....SOOOOO if you use the real sw tank, there is enough room for it and the exhaust...it clears everything nicely...the front pipe is the same as the 109 2 dr...it will pass directly under the l\f tank....hhmmmmmmmm.I did not place a tank there as i was more concerened with safety than range...is california such a wilderness that ya cant get gas???? *I* need to get out and take a break every couple-o-states...the fuel gauge gives me a reason to stop *before* "rigor-rover" settles in....anyway,you need the centre pipe and the muffler/tail pipe..and the hangers will be in the wrong place,of course.... btw...there is a rear tank that is narrower to allow the passasge of the driveshaft for the rear PTO......You might think about using jerry cans instead...if you would only need the range once in a while, this is a lot of work and expense and complication just to say"I can drive 1000 miles between fill ups...."....I use an electric pump to pump the contents of the reserve tank into the main tank..12 into 19 gal....this prevents all the fuel line and gauge complication....gotta make sure that switch *never* get switched on with the rear tank full!.......mega-fire hazzard....I thought of using the sender from a diesel,with the low fuel contact, to act as an interlock on the pump switch...never got around to it...you know how *that* works...... steve..... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 11:51:04 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 1994 12:28:35 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? To: Bret Marquis Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407011557.AA28732@radiomail.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well,ya see this is the "Joey Chittwood Thrill Show",where they get the car up to speed and go up a ramp with just the left wheels and the car hurtles down the road with the door handles scraping pavement....not hte type of thing ya want to do with a Rangey.... Really, the rolling road is a set of rollers mounted in the floor that are used to measure brake efectiveness on vehicles for the MOT. (a similar set up is known as a chassis dynomometer and is used to do performance tests on the engine and driveline)....anyway, the"problem"with the late model range rovers is in the viscous coupling for the front and rear driveshafts...the land rover could uncouple the front and rear axle by slecting 2wd (high range only) the early range rovers automaticly uncoupled the axles through the center differential(if "unlocked")...with the new range rovers the drive is truly full time to front and rear,and if you drive one end ,the other end is gonna turn!...so if you put the front wheels on the rollers and start the test, the rear wheels will shove ya right off the rollers and into the Jag parked in front of them....OOOOOO! (this is thought to be bad manners....) I have no idea how they check the brakes on these vehicles...must have a set of movable rollers for the rear wheels and I guess they discount the braking effect from the rear wheels on the drive line.. now you know....(I hope) steve.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "NICE JEEP MISTER!!..............................IT'S"NOTAJEEP"! STEVEN M. DENIS PO BOX 61 1967 109SW (NADA-6,now a "4") ERIEVILLE,NEW YORK 13061 1957 107SW (no engine yet!) 1964 109reg.(still lives in CAN.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 14:27:17 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 12:18:36 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Status: RO In message <199407011528.LAA00702@transfer.stratus.com> writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist > AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 > SUBJECT: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? > Hello all, I'm having quite a quandary over which vehicle to purchase. > My heart and emotions want to get the Discovery, but as I intend to use > it off road quite a lot, I don't want to feel that "fingernails on a > chalk board" feeling when I go through the Arizona (USA) desert full of > cacti and bushes. I'm also considering the Toyota 4-runner, (cheaper, > and can get a used one that's already depreciated). I know the obvious > advantages of the LR (Anti lock brakes, air bags, etc.) but have > concerns about reliability, electrical problems (is it still Lucas, and > are they better than the past years?) parts availability, etc. The 1 > thing that I do like about the Toyota is it's reputation for being > trouble free. Thank you but in the 15 year I have owned my Land Rover, I have had one bulb and one flasher unit burn out. Thats it for my Lucas electrical system. Neither of those parts were Lucas. My Land Rover has always gotten me home (except for the time I ran out of gas and there was no open gas station). I can get any part on my Land Rover overnight UPS. In my not so humble chalvinistic opinion, the Tyota is not even in the running as a viable Lnad Rover alternative.0 > > Also, does anyone know any dealers in the Southwest United States that > is willing to "deal". As the demand is HIGH for this vehicle, I have a > hunch that they're not going to be willing to deal, making the > difference between the LR and the Toyota even more! (Yeah, I know, you > get what you pay for... Sigh...) Have you EVER heard of any dealer of any Marque & model discount a car that sells faster then they can get them in? Early Miata buyers paid a couple thousand over list for the privilige of getting one. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 14:50:08 1994 Date: Fri, 1 Jul 94 12:42:30 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: muffler location for 109 4 door? Status: RO Gee THANKS station wagon man! Sometimes it is that far between gas stations in the high desert, but mostly its that far between cheaper gas stations (My ansestor's Scottish blood showing through here). The farther you head into the country, generally the more expensive the gas is. I should be able to save about $20 on a trip with the third tank. Petrol is 10 to 15 cents per gallen more expensive near my house then in the big city I work in. When you really get away from population centers, petrol can be up to 50 cents a gallon more expensive. If I can fill up in Oregon where the gas taxes are less, I would like to make it all the way home without having to hit one of those expensive out in the boonies stations. I have a 3 way valve on the front of my seat box to switch tanks and only one has a guage on it. I just make a point of using the guaged tank last. Seems to me like your aux. fuel pump & shifting gas from one tank to another is awfully complicated. I have one 3 way valve. A hose running from each tank to the valve, and one from the valve to the stock fuel pump. By using the tank with the guage last, i do not need to deal with changing the guages. When I start to feel the engine miss, I reach down & switch tanks. A couple of coughs later & back to speed. Rover made (makes?) an axillary tank that fits under the left seat over the exhaust pipe. They evidently thought it was safe. Mine came with this tank. It leaked and I converted to a stock under seat tank with external filler. My exhaust pipe does have a heat shield on it where it passes under the petrol tank. Thanks again, TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 13:55:17 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 14:45:01 EST Encoding: 218 Text To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Taxi! Content-Length: 206 Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > It has another advantage.When driving along,and you can suddenly smell > petrol,relax,its not you! Well it indeed may be you, but it most certainly isn't your Landie... ;-) Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 16:37:02 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@stratus.com Subject: So far so good.... Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Fri, 01 Jul 1994 14:29:37 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I made it to Seattle with out a hitch. The Rover's running grate. The Rover will even maintain 65 mph up slight hills and 50 to 55 mph on all but the steepest despite the load and increased wind resistance of a full roof rack. The only thing that I don't like is too much weight in the roof rack make me nervous when I go around tight bends. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 23:22:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: diffs From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 01 Jul 94 22:40:10 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO OK, I think it was Steve who up the piece on differentials, correct about painting the rear ones white. If you look closely you might have noticed that some front ones are now also painted white. Explain pls! rgds Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 00:18:01 1994 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 94 01:11:46 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: my rover trip Status: RO leaving boston tomorrow. all of my possessions are in or on the rover (can you say too much on the roof rack). first stop is rochester ny, to say hello to the parental units. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 04:19:59 1994 Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 02:11:12 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: Jules@learnlink.emory.edu, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? Status: RO Without an overdrive, you're probably gonna travel along at 50-55 mph on the freeway (unless you're going uphill.) If you put in an overdrive, you can do around 70 mph comfortably. Of course, if you're going downhill in a tornado, you may be able to get a rover without an overdrive up to 60 or even 65. They're not the most comfortable vehicles in the world, but they are totally cool. My brother the lifeguard/professional student is thinking of selling his '74 camaro and buying a Land Rover partly because he thinks the Rover would be better for picking up girls. Rust on the frame is not a good thing. Depending on how bad it is, it could mean you'll need a new frame very quickly. If the vehicle's not running now, don't pay too much. Also keep in mind that there are probably going to be a lot of little problems that you'll run into before everything gets smoothed out. ("Previous owner" is generally synonomous with "nitwit") If you don't know about working on cars, you soon will. Get used to the smell of 90wt gear oil -- it will be with you all your days. I own two Land Rovers, and can't imagine not owning at least one. Warning: Once you become a Land Rover Owner, you can never go back. You might want to find out if there are any members of the Land Rover Owner's Association (LROA) in your area who could take a look at it and offer moral support. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 03:17:02 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 10:17:44 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: muffler location for 109 4 door? Priority: normal Status: RO > filler set up for a 109 heavy duty pickup. Before I can start fitting the tank > I am going to have to get the muffler moved. Where does the muffler normally > sit in 4 door 109s? I do not want to put it in the obvious place behind the > left front seat in front of the rear wheel because i plan to have a water tank > installed there when I get the chance. If yr going to go the whole hog and install all of these *very desirable* Landie additions, you might plan in terms of a custom exhaust system. Take a sheet of graph paper and plot a scale figure of yr Landie's underside with all the addos installed, then work out a exhaust system flow that gives you the clearance and aesthetics that you want -- i.e. plan the exhaust system around the mods. Any competent exhaust outfit should be able to fix you up. FWIW a popular system here in South Africa is to either make the system very short and have the tailpipe emerging from under the lefthand side about 1' aft of the front seat (this is very similar to the common "hotrod" layout, I imagine), or to simply make it as straight as possible down the left hand side with the muffler box cobbled inside the frame area under the left-rear door area. The overall design philosophy is to (a) get as much of a "free-flow" effect as possible (b) minimise kinks and bends that might retain mud and (worse) dry grass, (c) keep it simple in case you need to get it welded up in some bush-garage. Obviously all the above might be totally spurious if California traffic\vehicle regulations say otherwise. > I wonder how far I can get on three tanks? With two under seattanks, I can get > from Monterey bay to garberville and have a quarter tank left. I wonder if I > can get as far as Salem? Total fuel capacity minus safe reserve (say 15%) divided by average fuel consumption for planned driving conditions should equal range. BTW, don't forget the genuine 1940's-1970's British Army jerry- cans full of petrol and water --- pretty mandatory for *serious* safaris!! (:D)!! KRC * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 2 22:20:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: review rovers From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 02 Jul 94 20:56:03 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The June 27 issue of soldier magazine, the publication of the british army has a number of pictures of review vehicles in it. Page 5 has a berlin based RR of the early type with berlin Brigade registration shown with HRH Prince Charles reviewing the troops. Page 17 shows HRH QE 2 in an un registered new RR, the newest oone in the fleet i beleive on the beach at Arromanches reviewing the veterans during the D Day ceremonies. Page 26 has a 109 ser 3 review vehicle being used by HRH Prince Charles to review the troops of the Army Air Corps. Finally the rear cover has HRH Prince Philip reviewing veterans at Netley in Hampshire from an RR, very possibly the same one as on p 17. Not bad for a 52 magazine to have 8% Land Rover product coverage by pages. Rgds Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 3 08:23:01 1994 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 94 14:14:58 0 GMT From: Jon Ward Subject: Low Ratio Gearbox To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Status: RO I've just bought an 88" series 2 from my dad. It was built in 1971 and he bought it about 8 years ago. The people he bought it from told him that it had a special, low ratio, gearbox and the gearbox does indeed seem to have a very low ratio (40mph at top revs). However, I can't find any mention of such a gearbox in any Land Rover literature and I've started to wonder whether there's something amiss. One of my suspicions is that the transfer box might be stuck in low ratio. I hope that's not the case since the freewheeing hubs are currently stuck in the freewheeling position :-( Bit of a worry really. So I've two questions really: 1) Has anyone heard of a low ration gearbox for field work? 2) Is it possible to buy spare parts to mend the freewheeling hubs of will I have to buy new hubs? I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot from me as this saga progresses. jon .................................................................... | You are in a twisty little maze of standards, all conflicting. | ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 3 19:27:51 1994 Date: Sun, 3 Jul 1994 19:16:40 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Sender: David John Place Reply-To: David John Place Subject: Re: Low Ratio Gearbox To: Jon Ward Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO Let me know if you want the name and phone number of the fellow in Alberta. Dave VE4PN If the hubs are Warn, you will probably be able to get parts although the older brass ones are no longer made and the parts are not available. I had one bad one and could not get the handle part. I know of a fellow in Onoway Alberta who has some parts. They are very easy to fix however. They consist of really only two parts, a scroll gear, and a star gear which interacts with the spline on the hub. You simply screw the star into the spline as it were. Open it up and you will see how easy it is to fix. The centre screw although it looks like a strange head can be taken out. That is the screw on the back of the select handle. Clean all the parts and grease it up and put it back in service. If you have the other type of Land Rover hubs called Selectro, they are even easier to fix as they are just half circular shafts which are selected by flipping over two handles on each hub. They almost never give trouble but they are a bugger to get on and off at times and you may have to rock the vehicle to get them in or out. Farie (sp) the same company that makes the over drive also makes a common type but I don't have much info on them. Check out the J.C. Whitney Cat. because they have some complete sets for the Land Rover under $80.00, so it might be~r easies From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 3 21:50:37 1994 Date: 04 Jul 1994 14:37:57 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Success with LRO-Digest! Please Unsubscribe To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO Yes! I finally made it into the digest mode! Please unsubscribe me from the real-time list. Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 05:27:42 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: MOT's and the Road Rolls On. To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 11:18:47 BST Status: RO Steve's descrription of the "rolling road" as used in the MOT test,set me to thinking that perhaps it may be of passing interest to those who dont have to suffer this indignity,to know what is involved.I,for one,would certainly be interested to know what arrangements other countries have in place. First,MOT.Stands for Ministry Of Transport.The test is an annual one to be undertaken by a suitably licenced "testing station",usually a private garage,or in at least one case locally,a municipally run affair. The problems with certain private operators are obvious,ie they have a vested interest in failing the vehicle so that they can charge much lolly for putting right that which is not wrong in the first place.The tester *must* have passed the Ministry training course,otherwise he cannot operate,and he *must* have the relevant equipment(such as the rolling road mentioned).He is also subject to inspection by Ministry representatives. The test currently involves(and if I forget an item or two,I'm sure there are people who will fill in the list) Chassis(or equivalent on monocoque vehicles)must be free of holes and structurally sound.Repairs,if done,must be welds,pop rivetting,brazing, glued on patches are not acceptable. Bodywork must be free of defects dangerous to bystanders.Like if you have a jagged piece of metal hanging off somewhere,you're out.This is one of the dodgy ones because its a matter of opinion. Brake lines must have no rust,and flexibles must be in good nick,with no signs of bulges or imminent failure.Yah Boo!mine are copper:-) Steering must not have excessive play at the steering wheel,currently 1-2" free play,I beleive,for the Land Rover,there must be *no* give in any of the ball joints,steering swivels,or wheel bearings.This latter has been a constant source of argument with me over the years, since some of these dumbo's would like wheel bearings pre-loaded(true!) instead of the ten thou end flaot the manual says is neccessary. Shockers must be operating correctly.Land Rover's exempt here,since the method of testing shockers is to bounce up and down on the car.Well, you *can* jump on the Rover's bumper if you like,but it wont move far! All shocker and spring bushes to be in good condition,and with no play. Axles U-bolts to be tight.Steering box and steering relay checked for tight attachment to the vehicle. No fuel leaks permitted,sealing washers on tank filler cap to be intact. No holes in exhaust system. All lights to work as advertised *and to be of equal intensity side to side*.This is a new one someone dreamed up last year during a moment of boredom.Headlamps checked for direction and beam height,both full and dipped beam.ANY EXTRA LIGHTS YOI HAVE MUST WORK.So if you are halfway through installing a load light or foglamp,dont take it for the MOT until you have finished,or they'll fail it.I hadf one on that wasnt connected,and wouldnt have worked even if it *had* been,so I took it off,and binned it. Its worth mentioning here that the tester isnt allowed to take a spanner to the vehicle,all testing is done by pushing and pulling and tapping wiv a rubber 'ammer. Horn must work.Wipers/washers ditto,wiper blades to"sweep the full area". Seat belts to be present and correct and unfrayed.All mirrors to be clear and uncracked.Windshield to have no cracks in line of driver's vision larger than a pound coin (7/8" dia).Tyres to have legal tread depth over 2/3 of the tyre.This includes the spare if you,re daft enough to leave it in or on the car.But if it aint there,they cant test it,there is as yet no law that forces you to carry a spare.In fact,I'm not *too* sure that if the spare has a cover over it,that they are permitted to remove the cover. Brakes are tested on the rollers,Land Rover handbrake excepted,since it isnt a service brake,only a parking brake.It has to work,but the way my people do it is to *just* roll the Rover forward and apply the handbrake. One guy admitted to me he got clever with one Land Rover and tried to test the handbrake on the rollers.The owner had just refurbished this item so the Rover leaped off the rollers and headed for the wall.The tester had a nasty lump on his head!I told him he was damned lucky he wasnt being billed for a new half shaft,or worse. Exhausts are checked for emission levels.With petrol engines they are looking at CO emissions,but *no-one* knows what the diesel test is after.They are just told that the print out had to read less than a certain figure.As one guy said to me,"we wouldnt even know if the machine had gone wrong".Super. Older petrol engines are exempt from this(I forgrt *how* old) *all* diesels are checked,but '79 and previous it is a visual check only.(Breath sigh of relief).Actually,I jacked the hand throttle up to fast tickover,its *much* less smoky at speed. Most testing rules are not retrospective.For instance pre-1965,I think it is,seat belts are not mandatory,nor am I obliged to fit hazard flashers, but I *did* recently hear of a station that made a guy fit a number plate illumination lamp,because he didnt like the clear glass insert in the rear lamp of the 11A in question.I'm pretty certain he was outside his brief,and could have had a blck mark against him if the owner had complained.Personally, I *would* have complained. When all this is over,and you've passed,hopefully,you pay your 25 quid and get a piece of paper which has the gall to state that this does *not* offer any guarantee as to the roadworthiness of the vehicle!Without this bit of paper you cant Road Tax the vehicle.The bit of paper you get in return for your Road Tax money has to be the most expensive piece of paper,money/surface area,in the world.Its a three inch(or so)disc and costs 130 quid per annum. If you *dont* pass,you get a list of required repairs,and if you present the vehicle at the same place within 14 working day,the retest is free,and the only itms examined are those on which it failed. And there you go,folks.We hate the thing with a passion,mainly because we are maintaining a piece of machinery to a standard,but they wont tell us what the stanard is beforehand.Like,as far as I know,one cannot buy a test schedule. Its secret.Gawd! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 06:40:29 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: MOT From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 94 13:12:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO Thanks god my LR doesn't live in the UK...... What's an MOT like in Italy? First of all, until last year, a new vehicle had to pass its first MOT after 10 years, and then evry 5 years. Now, Italy has adhered to EC regulations, and an MOT is required every 2 years. Basically, an italian MOT consists of waiting a lot of hours in a long queue waiting for your turn, not much more.... :))) They just check the chassis numbers, lights, tyres, test the brakes on the rollers and make sure there are no major bodywork or glass damages. Nothing more. Very easy. But you could always pay something like 300.000 italian Lira (120 pounds, more or less), and pass your MOT with the help of a friendly tester.... There are no private MOT testers, it's a department of the Italian Ministry of Transports that runs everything, and I think this explains everything. I hope that this does not upset too much all you LR owners living in civilized countries...:) Ludovico ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it P.S.-While we could be lucky with our MOTs, Road Taxes in Italy are higher than everywhere else in the world, I think. If I had the back seats in my 88, I should pay something like 700 pounds a year. Vehicle age and market value don't count as parameters for your Road Tax. They look at a combination of engine size/horsepowers/torque, and add lots of money for diesel engines and 4wd. Without the back seats, and with minor modifications, my vehicle is classified as a commercial light truck, and I can pay something like 50 pounds a year (phew.....). That's what most 4x4 owners do..... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 12:49:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: fuel warning light From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 08:50:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Since we are talking about diesels, my favorite subject, how long before, once the blue low fuel light goes full on, before you run out of fuel? Last night I must have been close because the guage was below E. I did make it home. What is it with Land Rover fuel gauges that they only read half full when full, and decrease exponentially when it finally does decide to move. What does the regulator do? You know, the bi-metalic strip with the contact on the end. Is there a modern replacement? Now an unrelated observation. When the weather is cooler, there is a marked increase in top speed. I was moving at 60mph last night coming home. On the way out, I was luchy if I could do 50. Btw, my speedo is out from going to 16 inch tyres. I would be curious to know why it is that people don't supercharge diesels, with all that torque. I feel that turbos wear with all that exhaust heat. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 09:11:10 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 15:04:07 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Really, the rolling road is a set of rollers mounted in the floor that are >used to measure brake efectiveness on vehicles for the MOT. (a similar set >up is known as a chassis dynomometer and is used to do performance tests >on the engine and driveline)....anyway, the"problem"with the late model >range rovers is in the viscous coupling for the front and rear >driveshafts...the land rover could uncouple the front and rear axle by >slecting 2wd (high range only) the early range rovers automaticly >uncoupled the axles through the center differential(if "unlocked")...with >the new range rovers the drive is truly full time to front and rear,and >if you drive one end ,the other end is gonna turn!...so if you put the >front wheels on the rollers and start the test, the rear wheels will shove >ya right off the rollers and into the Jag parked in front of them....OOOOOO! >(this is thought to be bad manners....) Hate to disagree (actually, I just LOVE being disagreeable...), but no LR I've ever heard of has viscous diffs. (They SHOULD have em on front and rear axles, but that's another thread....) Damned good flamebait tho............ The reason is that the Rangeys, 90s and 110s have a central differential for their full time 4wd. If only one axle is turned, it knackers the central diff pretty damned quick since it's only designed to deal with small differential speeds. Similarly if you tow one of these with either end off teh ground, you MUST disconnect teh propshaft to the trailed axle (and preferably lock the central diff too just to be anally retentive) or the diff will be toast. (Sorry for taking this seriously, but someone might actually not know.) +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 09:37:02 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Low Ratio Gearbox Date: Mon, 4 Jul 1994 15:23:09 UNDEFINED Status: RO >I've just bought an 88" series 2 from my dad. It was built in 1971 and he >bought it about 8 years ago. The people he bought it from told him that it >had a special, low ratio, gearbox and the gearbox does indeed seem to have >a very low ratio (40mph at top revs). However, I can't find any mention of >such a gearbox in any Land Rover literature and I've started to wonder >whether there's something amiss. >One of my suspicions is that the transfer box might be stuck in low ratio. >So I've two questions really: > 1) Has anyone heard of a low ration gearbox for field work? The visibility from Landrovers, especially hardtop LWB vans, is so terrible that Landrover include an entire special gearbox of 'parking ratios' to allow owners to manouever slowly into tight parking spaces in greasy-spoons without accidentally demolishing expensive 18 wheelers. You really wouldnt want to be stuck in parking ratio unless you lived in London, in which case, you'd not notice anyway. Hope this is helpful Andy +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 16:19:43 1994 To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Jul 1994 15:04:07 -0400." Date: Mon, 04 Jul 1994 14:13:32 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO >>anyway, the"problem"with the late model >>range rovers is in the viscous coupling for the front and rear >>driveshafts...the land rover could uncouple the front and rear axle by >>slecting 2wd (high range only) the early range rovers automaticly >>uncoupled the axles through the center differential(if "unlocked")...with >>the new range rovers the drive is truly full time to front and rear,and >>if you drive one end ,the other end is gonna turn!...so if you put the >>front wheels on the rollers and start the test, the rear wheels will shove >>ya right off the rollers and into the Jag parked in front of them....OOOOOO! >>(this is thought to be bad manners....) >Hate to disagree (actually, I just LOVE being disagreeable...), but no LR I've >ever heard of has viscous diffs. (They SHOULD have em on front and rear axles, >but that's another thread....) Damned good flamebait tho............ >The reason is that the Rangeys, 90s and 110s have a central differential for >their full time 4wd. If only one axle is turned, it knackers the central diff >pretty damned quick since it's only designed to deal with small differential >speeds. Hate to disagree with your disagreement, but I disagree. All North American spec Range Rovers since 1989, and I assume now the Discoveries also, have a viscous coupling in the center diff for the full time 4wd function. Not to be confused with locking front and rear diffs, you are correct, Land Rover has never offered them. ARB from those wonderful folks down under has a great locking diff for the front or rear of Landies and Rangies. These are not viscous couplings like the center diff of the RR, but a compressed air operated locking diff that essentially gives you a single solid axle, front or rear depending on where it was installed, providing 100% of the available torque to the wheels, even if one is not in contact with terra firma. rgds Mike Fredette 72 Ser lll 88 89 Range Rover 94 Discovery (yes, totally out of control) Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 21:17:48 1994 Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 22:03:22 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: 88 vs 109 To: land-rover-owner@team.net Status: RO Hello, I am hoping to purchase a Land Rover as soon as my house sells and am trying to gain opinions on various Rovers. I have come to the conclusion that the 88 and 109 are very different beasts indeed. The 109 obviously has more room, but is the 88 a superior off-road vehicle? Any opinions on differences would be greatly appreciated! Also, is the Series IIA and III superior to older LR's or are the Series I and II worth a look. Thanks!! -J.B. PLRO (Potential Land Rover Owner) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 21:50:39 1994 Date: 05 Jul 1994 14:41:11 +1200 From: DAVID DEAN Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 To: land-rover-owner@team.net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: land-rover-owner@team.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO >Date sent: Mon, 04 Jul 94 22:03:22 LCL >From: Joseph Broach > I am hoping to purchase a Land Rover as soon as my house sells >and am trying to gain opinions on various Rovers. Bad timing! I just sold my RangeRover so I could buy a house. If only I had known we could have traded. :*) Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 13:02:01 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 10:55:50 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, rjrlab@neb.com Subject: To get off X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1833 Status: RO for administrative stuff, send to land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com OR lro-request@stratus.com OR Just use this, aim at ceter of screen!! ^ | | @#####@ (### ###)-. .(### ###) \ / (### ###) ) (=- .@#####@|_--" /\ \_|l|_/ (\ (=-\ |l| / \ \.___|l|___/ /\ |_| / (=-\._________/\ \ / \._________/ # ---- # # __ # \########/ It's also rude to blame others for your own ignorance. (___) (___) (o o) (o o) /-------\ / /-------\ / / | ||O / | O~ ||O * ||,---|| * ||,---|| ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ Bull A-bomb-in-a-bull No-bull Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 1 07:26 PDT 1994 > To: lro@stratus.com > X-Sender: rjrlab@vent.neb.com > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 636 > X-Lines: 16 > > I think it is very rude to fail to notice one's requests to be removed from > this list. If anyone is monitoring the activity of this list, would you > kindly remove me from future messages. > > unsubscribe lro-stratus > > Brian Monks > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > > New England Biolabs, Inc. Tel. (508) 927-5054 #287 > Protein Modification Group FAX (508) 921-1350 > 32 Tozer Road INTERNET: rjrlab@neb.com > Beverly, MA 01915-5510 U.S.A. > ________________________________________________________________________________ > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 23:51:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: OVLR events... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 22:43:25 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO In vague detail OVLR (aka Dixon and the little boys up north (who like to have fun and have more than 120 Land Rovers between them & generally rebuild half a dozen a year) have the following general guideline to put forth to those interested, and those OVLR members on the net who rather read news here than in the newsletter. July 23rd: An off-road road building event. Near Ottawa, Land Rovers will assemble with winches, people with chain saws and the like to design and build a road through a wood lot. A learning excercise, this event is already over subscribed for participants. July 30th is the annual breakfast in Victoria Island in the middle of the Ottawa River off of Parliament Hill. For those local to Fourfold, the cost is $3.00 for breakfast and the chance to show off your favourite aluminium pet. Lat year saw fifteen Land Rovers appear. August 20/21st weekend is the Calabogie power cut/Flower Station Road off-road event. An over night adventure, this venture is classified as a light to medium off-road down a Hydro Ontario hydro cut and fire road west of Ottawa. By describing the event as medium off-road, the event does not include any heavy winching (if any serious winching at all, there is a gravel hydro road 100 metres off the Land Rover trail) and a route that will not damage your vehicle, though giving it plenty of opportinity to show off axle articulation. (For those into axle articulation, there is a side section off the main trail were an OVLR 101 Forward Control seriously embarrased an American vehicle a couple of years ago below he hydro dam.) Passabe by Land Rovers, not Japanese or American inter-lopers. September: Silver Lake, an overnight camping event with an off road course through Provincial lands with a static base similar to the OVLR Birthday Party, as opposed to the Calabogie power cut run which does not feature a static camping site on Saturday evening. The second September event is the Stowe British Invasion. Further details as they are announced. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 03:59:48 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: fuel warning light To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 9:46:43 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Dale Desprey" at Jul 4, 94 8:50 am Status: RO Dale, When the warning light comes on(red,in my case)you've got two gallons left,apparently.Just enough to get back from the pub as long as its not far,the way mine is drinking fuel at the moment.If your gauge doesnt read full when it should,there's summat up with the transmitter for a bet. Whadya mean sixty miles an hour? Sixty? Go on!Surely you mean sixty *kilometres* an hour.*Thats* more like it:-) It*will* go better in cool conditions,you are getting more air in during the inlet stroke.Which is the reason that intercooling is used to cool the air compressed in the turbocharger.Isnt the idea of a turbo to utilise some of the waste exhaust energy, whereas a supercharger requires energy to turn it? Enny road up,I cant say I would relish the thought of what *either* would do to my old three bearing 2.25,although I *have* seen a photo of an Allard turbo fitted to one.History didnt record whether the engine survived.I'd be interested to know whether you've recently had your injectoers set up,and/or the distributor pump retimed,and if so what effect it had on power and emmissions,also fuel consumption. If you can rattle along at sixty,you must have an overdrive,yes? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 05:28:09 1994 From: Ketil Kirkerud Date: Tue, 5 Jul 1994 12:16:33 +0200 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Jon Ward's message of Sun, 3 Jul 94 14:14:58 0 GMT Subject: Re: Low Ratio Gearbox Status: RO Subject: Low Ratio Gearbox To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com X-Mailer: LeeMail 2.0.4 I've just bought an 88" series 2 from my dad. It was built in 1971 and he bought it about 8 years ago. The people he bought it from told him that it had a special, low ratio, gearbox and the gearbox does indeed seem to have a very low ratio (40mph at top revs). However, I can't find any mention of such a gearbox in any Land Rover literature and I've started to wonder whether there's something amiss. This sounds like the "all-helical" tranfer box made for the 109" 1Tonne, which was/is supposed to have 9.00"x16 tires. I used to have one of these (tranfer boxes, that is) on my Landy, but I found it a bit tiring to redline the engine all the time (6000 RPM.. not fun...). So : I got myself an old standard tranfer box, complete with mainshaft (the mainshaft is different, between the two cases, so it couldn't be used), and rebuilt the whole thing. Originally I wanted to just install an overdrive, but... as the mainshaft is different, it won't fit (the overdrive, that is). One of my suspicions is that the transfer box might be stuck in low ratio. I hope that's not the case since the freewheeing hubs are currently stuck in the freewheeling position :-( Bit of a worry really. Is there any difference between high and low ? Try to get it up to about 20mph (in low range), which should be something like 4th. Try to shift into high range while moving (yes, this is OK, but you need to double-declutch, probably). You _should_ to notice a difference in gearing.. ---Ketil From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 18:16:08 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 9:07:11 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Hate to disagree with your disagreement, but I disagree. All North American spec > Range Rovers since 1989, and I assume now the Discoveries also, have a viscous > coupling in the center diff for the full time 4wd function. Not to be confused with > locking front and rear diffs, you are correct, Land Rover has never offered them. > ARB from those wonderful folks down under has a great locking diff for the front or > rear of Landies and Rangies. These are not viscous couplings like the center diff > of the RR, but a compressed air operated locking diff that essentially gives you > a single solid axle, front or rear depending on where it was installed, providing > 100% of the available torque to the wheels, even if one is not in contact with > terra firma. > rgds > Mike Fredette > 72 Ser lll 88 > 89 Range Rover > 94 Discovery > (yes, totally out > of control) > Portland, Oregon > I would hate to disagree with you on the ARB diff lock, they are only likely to blow something up when you need them, If you were going to get a diff lock, a Maxidrive or a Macnamara diff lock would be better, ARB just fit the locking mechanism to the standard rover diff, and don't even strengthn the axles, so if you have to use it,some thing will break. With the other two, they give you strengthened axles, and a four pinoin diff carrier, and work of vacuum instead of compressed air, the early macnamara diff locks worked by losening a nut on a modified drive flange, which let the long axle slip into the thing that holds the spider gears (the name eludes me) thus locking the diff, There are plenty of Land Rovers around Australia with this sort of diff lock, mine included, with are much stronger than an ARB diff lock. I mean if it is easy to blow up a diff or a half shaft with out a diff lock, imagine the amount of half shafts and diff centres you would go through if you put a diff lock on a standard Rover diff. Just my two cents worth. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 09:18:25 1994 To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: diff locks In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 05 Jul 1994 09:07:11 EST." <9407042307.AA27991@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 07:09:02 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO >I would hate to disagree with you on the ARB diff lock, they are only >likely to blow something up when you need them, If you were going to get >a diff lock, a Maxidrive or a Macnamara diff lock would be better, ARB >just fit the locking mechanism to the standard rover diff, and don't even >strengthn the axles, so if you have to use it,some thing will break. >With the other two, they give you strengthened axles, and a four pinoin diff >carrier, and work of vacuum instead of compressed air, the early macnamara >diff locks worked by losening a nut on a modified drive flange, which let the >long axle slip into the thing that holds the spider gears (the name eludes me) >thus locking the diff, There are plenty of Land Rovers around Australia with >this sort of diff lock, mine included, with are much stronger than an ARB >diff lock. I mean if it is easy to blow up a diff or a half shaft with out >a diff lock, imagine the amount of half shafts and diff centres you would >go through if you put a diff lock on a standard Rover diff. > >Just my two cents worth. > >============================================================================== >Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" >mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) > > > > Craig, Across the pond here, we don't have quite as many goodies available to us for retro fit as you do in the UK and AUSTRALIA. The ONLY diff lock available here is the ARB unit, and at that, it's a pretty penny. $629.00 US for the diff and another $225.00 US for the bloddy compressor! So at almost 900 dollars a crack, not too many takers I'm afraid. We've never even heard of the other two units you mentioned above, how do they compare price wise to the ARB unit? Perhaps you could pass on some info as to price, addresses for availability, etc. I'm sure many of the US contingent on the net would be interested as the only other manufacturer here is the Detroit Locker unit for the Jeep, Bronco, Blazer, Toyota crowd (retch, gag), and I don't believe they make an application for the Landy. Correct me if I'm wrong all you folks out there who know for sure. I certainly didn't know of the ARB's shortcomings, I had heard it was a tough, trouble free addition to the capabilities of the Landy. rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 4 21:41:48 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 88 vs 10 To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 12:32:58 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > > Hello, > > I am hoping to purchase a Land Rover as soon as my house sells > and am trying to gain opinions on various Rovers. I have come to the > conclusion that the 88 and 109 are very different beasts indeed. The 109 > obviously has more room, but is the 88 a superior off-road vehicle? Any > opinions on differences would be greatly appreciated! Also, is the Series > IIA and III superior to older LR's or are the Series I and II worth a > look. Thanks!! > > -J.B. PLRO (Potential Land Rover Owner) > In what I have learned, SWB are better in mud, but LWB are better for steep rocky terrain. But generally its horses for courses. As for what series, there is no different between the series II, IIA and the III, but the series 1 does not have as much suspension travel, but the series 1 is lighter than the later models, as well as thinner, which is good for squezing down over grown tracks. But all are good off road. Just remember, the better you four wheel drive, the deeper in the brown stuff, and the further away from help you will be. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 13:40:45 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 11:34:58 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO In my humble view after researching all the available 4x4's in the US a Land Rover of one version or the other is of course the only way to go. None of the others are seriously designed for off-road use. The Toyota is probably one of the better ones in terms of ground clearance and reliability, but terrible in terms of ride and suspension travel, being nothing more than a warmed over pickup truck. On your first four wheeling trip in a Disco or RR particularly, and to some extent Defender, you will notice yourself running circles around the Toyotas and others as they rattle themselves to bits at a snail's pace on any sort of rough surface. For serious four wheeling you'd have to modify any non-Land Rover product; in the case4 of a Toyota I'd imagine diff locks would be essential due to the negligible wheel travel and stiff sway bars. Look underneath the various available vehicles and you will notice the difference in robustitude, so to speak; Land Rovers use a 14 gauge box section frame (all others use weak channel section), and heavy, fully floating axles (equivalent to a 1-ton US pickup). No doubt the antilock brakes, airbags, etc are nice, but the basics that make the LR so superior off-road are more than skin deep. Regarding expense -- I do think you're right of course and logically we should all get something cheaper. However, you only live once! What about a 87-89 RR (I got an 89 second hand); their prices are getting quite reasonable now, and they are better than a Disco off road as well as being "loaded" (this may send up a wail of protest on the net!!). All RR's up to 90, the '91 Hunter, and the '92 non-County model, are sans sway bars and will beat a Disco in rock crawling traction, as well as having a bit smoother ride overall. Sway bars compromise off-road ride and traction, despite what any advertising literature says. Reliability is probably not equal to a Toyota if we're honest, but not bad either. Anyway, hope this helps you internally justify a certain amount of extravagance!! John Brabyn Mill Valley, Ca 1989 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 13:48:45 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 11:37:03 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Just as a point of information -- Discoverys do not have a viscous coupling in the center differential, they have a manual lock. John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 14:12:45 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 12:02:27 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: DEBROWN@srp.gov Subject: Re: Land Rover Discovery purchase decision??? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Note also that should you choose the used RR route to save $, the rear suspension ion is better than a Discovery due to the load levelling device which allows soft softer springs to be used. This combined with no sway bars adds up to a big difference in traction in extreme articulation conditions. In the California and Nevada deserts (never been to Arizona) I've seldom found the bushes to be thick enough to worry about scratches -- perhaps you've found otherwise?? Good luck John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 15:58:35 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Jul 94 13:51:18 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Black Rock Desert Status: RO I was up in the Black Rock Desert over the rebellion day weekend but saw no other Land Rovers. Where is everybody??!! John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 09:24:16 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 6 Jul 94 02:07:35 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Exhausts, Fuel Stuff, and Owls Head Content-Type: Text Status: RO Exhaust System: This weekend I installed a new exhaust system on my 88. I bought the system 2 years ago on sale from RN, but the existing system hadn't given me problems till now. The jury rigged system in place exited out the right, and I ordered a RH system. I noticed it came with an extra bracket not illustrated in the Land Rover Parts books. I planned on returning it on my next VT trip. Once I had it bolted up I found that it didn't quite sit right exiting out the right. After referencing all my books and manuals I realized that this frame was set up for a LH exit exhaust. After letting my brain boil for a few minutes it occured to me that Lanny had included this bracket for a reason. Upon examination I discovered that the bracket was a mirror of the hanger for the RH side of a LH exhaust. Again I poured through my books and photo albums and figured that this should go somewhere on the outside of the frame opposite the inboard RH hanger bracket, but I could find no holes to mount it. A call to RN was of no help on Saturday AM (they must have been closed for the holiday weekend) so I positioned it to provide the closest tailpipe proximity to those I had seen in the books and photos and drilled and tapped my frame (5/16 Coarse for strength in the fairly thin framewall). It seems OK and everything hangs fine now. I was a bit put off at first having to drill my frame (old but sound) but then I realized that the LH exiting exhaust is about $25 more than the RH, and seems to be freer flowing (no hairpin turns). The job took me the better part of a day, mostly due to my replacing the manifold-to-headpipe studs (I pulled the manifold, then replaced the gasket and hardware). They were badly corroded on the nut end, but did unscrew without snapping with some effort. I guess the Permatex Antiseize really does work on manifold hardware. I searched for stainless replacements locally with no success, and used some new hardware that I had left over from another job. Researching the bracket location took some time too. When I took it on the road I almost wished I hadn't replaced it. The smell of the aluminizing burning off running with the soft top rolled up was enough to make my eyes water. God it was awful. The first trip of 30 miles was horrendous. I coughed and sneezed my head off and I could feel my chest filling up. The second trip of 10 miles was better, and after a few more runs it is faint but still noticable when stopped. So, if you install an new genuine aluminized exhaust system, make your first run with the top secured, windows open and vents open. And don't stop. Fuel Stuff: On Monday I helped a friend install a tune up kit on his 88 that had been sitting for years. We had gotten it started 2 weeks ago but now it wouldn't fire, even with the new ignition kit. I sprayed brake parts cleaner into the carb as he cranked it and it fired right up, then died. I worked the fuel pump priming lever with the hose off the carb and got no fuel. I felt it had to be the pump but it primed just fine 2 weeks ago when we tried it the first time. I pulled the bowl off and found 1 1/2" of brown sludge. Yuk. Cleaned and replaced it. Pumped the primer. No good. Pulled the pump. The screen was blocked solid. Cleaned it and now the pump was working on the bench. Reconnected the line from the tank to the pump and worked the primer. The bowl began to fill with dark yellow fluid, and some black stuff that looked like a snake and moved like mercury. I've never seen anything like it. The black stuff rolled around the bottom of the bowl like it was alive, but didn't mix with the other stuff. Dumped the bowl and shot carb cleaner in the bowl. Then brake parts cleaner. The yellow stuff (Varnish?) wouldn't budge. I had to wipe it off with a paper towel. Sometime this week he will drain his tank and hopefully we can try again with fresh fuel next weekend. I hate to admit it but I really enjoyed doing all this. It must be a sickness. Owl's Head; If anyone went to Owl's Head please let us know it was. Things like turn out, air show, LR vendors vending, interesting vehicles, and of course, personality clashes. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 12:54:17 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 6 Jul 94 05:42:03 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Drop Arm Puller Content-Type: Text Status: RO Has anyone heard of or used a "Drop Arm Puller" for removing the arm from the steering box? I seem to recall one in an ad in LRO but cannot find it in the last few issues. The box in my IIA seems to be leaking alot. I replaced the side and bottom cover gaskets and it's not leaking there. As far as I can tell it's coming through the splined shaft hole and I would like to try replacing the O-ring. I had tried a heavy duty gear puller on my III steering box when I had the engine out, but it just wasn't enough. I didn't try to lever it off for fear of damaging the ball bearings or races. If anyone could let me know where and how much I'd really appreciate it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I called Anne Cornwall at the LRO bookshop to order the Land Rover Experience and some other books this morning. She always seems so amused that I call so early in the morning ("wot's the matter love, can't sleep or something?"), and that most of the US customers call later in the day. I'm amused that anyone would wait until after 7:00AM and pay the standard (maximum) instead of economy rates. I'll post how long it took once I get it. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 5 17:05:45 1994 Date: Tue, 05 Jul 1994 16:55:27 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Russell's shirt Status: RO Russell...I don't have your E-mail address, so I have to post this to the net. I've got a long-sleeved T-shirt waiting for you. My regards to Nige, my recent clutch work notwithstanding. Jan: T-shirt two went out today. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 03:30:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 09:24:16 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Just as a point of information -- Discoverys do not have a viscous coupling >in the center differential, they have a manual lock. So do all the 90s, 110s and Rangeys in the UK. I dont know if they are modified for the US market by addition of a viscous coupling, but it's the first I've heard of one. Also, there are still an astonishing number of folk (including lots of motor journalists) who think that the diff lock locks the axles as well!!! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 06:49:31 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: The View from Space To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 12:38:19 BST Status: RO To paraphrase Robert Ivins,of LRO fame "It is said that there are two things immediately noticeable from space.The Grand Canyon,and the build gaps on a Land Rover".He *was* talking about Range Rovers, but its the same difference. This was brought home to me last week,when I sat regarding with some apprehension the ever widening build gap bettwen Daisy's passenger side door top and its sealing rubber.I remember thinking that its all very well,but the gap *really* shouldnt vary between zero and about three inches.Indeed,the likelihood of *losing* the door top altogether was becoming a distinct possibility.Nor was the door bottom in any better state.In fact,the entire assembly was rather less rigid than a sheet of canvas,and old and floppy canvas at that.I had long been inured to the pleas of my family about the draught,being rained on,and being told to hang onto the window lock to prevent the tops involuntary removal in high winds.The trouble was,from the outside,the door was as new,a lovely clean,unmarked panel that *looked* as solid as Gibraltar.The inside,on the other hand,was a mass of rust.Painted over,I grant you,but rust nevertheless. Now any fool can go out and buy a new door,top and bottom,but I really *work* at being an idiot.Besides that,any job I start at nine in the morning has to be finished by about five in the evening,so I can be back on the road.So it had to be a secondhand door.So it was that Saturday morning saw me grinding over the hills of North West Leicestershire to the nearest place where such an item could be had.A telephone call the previous day had established that yes,they had such items,and that depending on condition the price was between fifteen and forty quid. Now this place is distinctly odd.For a start,it is on an industrial estate bang in the middle of nowhere.For another thing,they have no sign outside saying who they are.The sign is *inside*,so you know where you are once you have got there.Stands to reason,doesnt it?Also,having arrived,you have to *work* at getting them to part with what they have,and to take your money. Actually,the latter is relatively easy,its the former that takes the time. As an illustration,a lad wanted an inlet manifold for his S11.He wasnt sure about certain details,but the Land Rover was parked outside.Could the chap behind the counter step outside and have a look?Could he heck as like.It took and good five minutes negotiation to achieve this.Arrive between twelve and one o'clock? Go away,we are having our lunch.You want a seconhand door? Hmmmmm....well...I *suppose* you can come upstairs and see what there is,it will be easier than me having to bring more than one down here...Th estrange thing is,they arent a bit surly with it,just exhibit this wierd reluctance.And all the time you are concious of a bearded gnome like figure regarding you silently round the workshop door. That;'s the other brother,he's the shy one,wont come anywhere near a customer.He just does repairs. Away I went (eventually)the proud possesor of and old door,glass,lock etc for twenty quid.Even the window channels were OK.The colour wasnt, but I'd got loads of paint.Once home,I removed the door lock,mine was in better shape,laid the thing flat on a pair of trestles and got out the paint and my trusty two inch brush.Fifteen minutes later,the door was Deep Bronze Green,the *only* working Land Rover colour.Next,to remove the floppy thing from Daisy.Surprise,surprise,the bolts moved! You need long arms to do it on your own,piece of cake for an Orang Outang,but with perseverence and bad language it can be done.Note: Doors,passenger,Land Rover S11A for the use of,one,are *heavy*. Particularly if you forget the opening restricter inside.You have an armful of struggling aluminium,hanging on to mother for dear life. Deep breathing helps.Beer helps even more.I had to settle for deep breathing.On with the "new" door.You know those build gaps?Theyve gone.The bloody door catches on the hardtop.The lockis too low for the door pillar catch.The trouble with secondhand bits is they tend to grow to fit the vehicle they come off.And the bloke that replaced the window channels would have done the job quicker if he'd done it properly.No channel at the back,so the window shut onto bare metal, and the fixed glass held in at the front with the bit that *should* have been at the back. Fortunately I had a spare hinge pin kit which,fitted into the bottom hinge,raised the door so it fitted.A rat tailed file on the door pillar enlarged the catch fitting holes si it could be lowered.Spacer pieces off the old door,and the relocation of the wrongly fitted bit of channel ensured(relatively) draught free motoring.And alloy angle piece from the old door fitted where it should go on the new one.I only broke two drill bits as well!It *was* necessary to loosen off the top channel and relocate it so that the window would open and shut *without* the application of a hi-lift jack.A coat of paint on the inside,and we were away. However,there is still a problem.How to get the family to shut the door normally,ie slam it.Years of me saying"With the right hand,grasp the bracing strip halfwat up the door,pull in in and lift,at the same time with the *left* hand lift the door handle.......".And I cant stop *myself* either.You really cant win can you? Cheers Mike Rooth (With apologies for the lenght of the Ramble) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 13:32:01 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sun, 03 Jul 94 23:39:57 EDT Subject: Re: diffs Status: RO Robin asked... > OK, I think it was Steve who up the piece on differentials, correct about > painting the rear ones white. If you look closely you might have noticed > that some front ones are now also painted white. Explain pls! My understanding is that after a certain amount of time or miles you are supposed to swap differentials front to back, back to front, this would explain why some front diffs were white unless both were white when the front was replaced with a rear. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 15:35:39 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 04 Jul 94 09:46:30 EDT Subject: Re: MOT Status: RO Oh boy... I don't even want to go into what the MOT equivelents are here in the states -they are called State Inspections - every state is differant and range from the ridiculous (Pennsylvania - twice a year) to the the sublime (Tennessee - once, I think, when the car is new) But I will chip in this bit. I was stationed in Turkey while in the US Air Force. Vehicle inspections there were done by Government stations and consisted mostly of checking headlight alignment and making sure your exhaust pipe was parallel to the road surface. They did check serial numbers on the block and chassis or body and the whole deal was accompanied by the usual assortment of official government stamps. Two packs of cigarettes on the dash would assure you of a passed inspection!! Cheers Mike Loiodice From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 10:51:37 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 1994 11:40:19 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: 80" left wing Status: RO Folks, While at the (Inter)National Rally @ Derby a fellow named Nick Howard asked me to help find a home for his 80" leftside front wing - he would like to swap for an 88" wing (I think?) Nick is in the UK and can be reached at nickh@reading.sgi.com John John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 12:38:00 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 10:18:07 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: azw@aber.ac.uk, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Status: RO The viscous coupling was introduced as poart of the new Borg Warner transfer case in 1989, replacing the LT320 or whatever it's called which is still used in other models. It seems to work pretty effectively as a center diff lock for all practical purposes and just allows enough movement for steering on hard surfaces -- the tires chirp a bit on tight turns on concrete. It's nice not having to worry about locking it manually! As you say, RRs before 89 (in the US) had the manual lock too. I don't know when they switched in the UK but it may have been after 89. Yes, I too have found that automotive journalists often display an abysmal ignorance of Land Rover technology! John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 18:45:23 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 17:25:48 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: MOT Status: RO At the risk of attracting more immigrants, but they would bring Rovers with them, Montana has no MOT!!! :`) :`). Yet, that is. But I have not heard any rumblings from the legislature regarding making up some kind of MOT. I can omly hope that some lame brain doesn't come up with the idea. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 18:40:48 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 16:33:26 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au, lro@team.net Subject: Re: diff locks Status: RO I would certainly agree about the need to strengthen things when you install a diff lock since by the nature of the beast you will end up with 200% torque on one axle if the other wheel is off the ground. If you're willing to modify the Series 1 away from stock anyway, why not fit a coil suspension (I thought I read somewhere of one being available?) and reduce the need for a diff lock in the first place through softer springs and more travel. Just an off the wall thought John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 19:51:18 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Jul 94 17:34 MST From: jhoward@argus.lowell.edu (James D. Howard II) To: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407062325.AA01025@mtnoca.helena_noc> (rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com) Subject: Re: MOT Status: RO In Tennessee, there is no inspection. There was a bill introduced to the state legislature several years ago to add one. I remember AAA opposed it, the reasoning being that there were many more cost effective ways of improving highway safety. James From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 00:17:43 1994 From: LandRover@aol.com Sender: "LandRover" To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 07 Jul 94 01:08:43 EDT Subject: New Address! Status: RO Howdy all.. I'm moving.. at least my E-MAIL address is. New E-Mail address is landrover@delphi.com Original, eh? Cheers, Mike Loiodice landrover@aol.com --> landrover@delphi.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 02:59:46 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 2 wheel rolling road? Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 08:49:46 UNDEFINED Status: RO >The viscous coupling was introduced as poart of the new Borg Warner >transfer case in 1989, replacing the LT320 or whatever it's called >which is still used in other models. It seems to work pretty effectively >as a center diff lock for all practical purposes and just allows enough >movement for steering on hard surfaces -- the tires chirp a bit on tight >turns on concrete. It's nice not having to worry about locking it >manually! As you say, RRs before 89 (in the US) had the manual lock too. >I don't know when they switched in the UK but it may have been after 89. Damn! Should have waited longer to get my 90! The question that now springs to mind is - if theyve gone for viscous central diff, why didnt they do the job properly and put em on both axles as well. Or were they just being humane to the competition? +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 18:11:41 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: diff locks To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 8:57:28 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > >I would hate to disagree with you on the ARB diff lock, they are only > >likely to blow something up when you need them, If you were going to get > >a diff lock, a Maxidrive or a Macnamara diff lock would be better, ARB > >just fit the locking mechanism to the standard rover diff, and don't even > >strengthn the axles, so if you have to use it,some thing will break. > >With the other two, they give you strengthened axles, and a four pinoin diff > >carrier, and work of vacuum instead of compressed air, the early macnamara > >diff locks worked by losening a nut on a modified drive flange, which let the > >long axle slip into the thing that holds the spider gears (the name eludes me) > >thus locking the diff, There are plenty of Land Rovers around Australia with > >this sort of diff lock, mine included, with are much stronger than an ARB > >diff lock. I mean if it is easy to blow up a diff or a half shaft with out > >a diff lock, imagine the amount of half shafts and diff centres you would > >go through if you put a diff lock on a standard Rover diff. > > > >Just my two cents worth. > > > >============================================================================== > >Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" > >mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) > > > > > > > > > Craig, > > Across the pond here, we don't have quite as many goodies available to > us for retro fit as you do in the UK and AUSTRALIA. The ONLY diff lock available > here is the ARB unit, and at that, it's a pretty penny. $629.00 US for the diff > and another $225.00 US for the bloddy compressor! So at almost 900 dollars a > crack, not too many takers I'm afraid. We've never even heard of the other two > units you mentioned above, how do they compare price wise to the ARB unit? Perhaps > you could pass on some info as to price, addresses for availability, etc. I'm > sure many of the US contingent on the net would be interested as the only other > manufacturer here is the Detroit Locker unit for the Jeep, Bronco, Blazer, Toyota > crowd (retch, gag), and I don't believe they make an application for the Landy. > Correct me if I'm wrong all you folks out there who know for sure. I certainly > didn't know of the ARB's shortcomings, I had heard it was a tough, trouble free > addition to the capabilities of the Landy. > rgds > Mike Fredette > mfredett@ichips.intel.com > Portland, Oregon > I found some guff on Mc Namara Diff locks last night, but does not menchion any thing about price. These diffs are advertised on LRO, but for those that don't get (Not likely) here is his address and phone number. 25 Levanswell Road Moorabbin 3189 Victoria, Australia. Telephone Numbers. S.T.D. (03) 555 2213 I.S.D. 613 555 2213 Now I have been informed that his cabin operated diff locks are more expensive than ARB's, but there are also stronger, but his spring loaded diff lock, which I have fitted to my Series 1, is around $900 Australian. He also sells diff strengthening kits from memory too. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 6 19:17:01 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: diff locks To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) (John Brabyn) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 10:04:11 EST Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9407062333.AA26933@skivs.ski.org>; from "John Brabyn" at Jul 6, 94 4:33 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > I would certainly agree about the need to strengthen things when you install > a diff lock since by the nature of the beast you will end up with 200% torque > on one axle if the other wheel is off the ground. > > If you're willing to modify the Series 1 away from stock anyway, why not > fit a coil suspension (I thought I read somewhere of one being available?) > and reduce the need for a diff lock in the first place through softer > springs and more travel. > > Just an off the wall thought > > John > To fit coil springs would be a major hassle, first I would have to find a Rangie chassie, and the money to buy it, then I would need to cut it up to fit the car, and get it all welded up by some-one with a DLI ticket, and then try and get pass an engineer, which is a bitch, they made my brother fit a heater, when he fitted his v8. In Australia, and modifications have to be checked out by an engineer. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:08:43 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:42:57 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: mb@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rover Sign. Status: RO Michael Bertrand writes: > Well, hello everyone! Just got home from a great Rover shopping day. > Went to Rover's North and bought a whole bunch of goodies (they have > great specials on) and a also bought a rare find in a Montreal british > parts place. I bought a genuine Land Rover dealer sign! It's oval, about > 3 feet by 3 feet and Yellow with the grees Land Rover letters. It used to > be one of my rovers dealer in the Eastern Townships in Quebec! > > I'm thinking of installing it on the ceiling in my bedroom right > over my bed. Hmmmm, I wonder what my girlfriend will say. Sounds like a great idea! Make sure she knows what's *really* important! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:02:13 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:44:52 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Standard CB Channel? Status: RO Okay, so you're speeding down the freeway in 4th Overdrive, and there going the other way is another Land Rover that you've never seen before. So you switch on the CB and start interrupting conversations on all channels trying to get the attention of this person. But they're on channel 40 and you start off on 1... Is there a standard Land Rover CB Channel? When up in the desert with Scotty, we used channel 7, and at the national rally 2 years ago, we used ch 4 & 7. If there is a standard channel, what is it, and if not maybe we should pick one? (7 sounds good to me. That's what I've been using.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:46:28 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:44:55 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu, Jules@learnlink.emory.edu Subject: Re: Land Rover Advice? Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO T. F. Mills writes: > Speaking as the owner of the fastest Rover in the West (1966 109"), > I'd say don't even think of getting by without overdrive if you plan > on much highway driving (unless, of course, you have all time in the > world and don't mind dirty looks as you hold up traffic much as a > tractor would). How fast does yours go? What kind of engine do you have? My '59 109" cruises comfortably at about 70; I could probably get it up to 75 on a steep downhill. I know of a guy with a V-8 in a sIII 88" that has reportedly done over 100mph. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:05:00 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:06 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO Since it sure seems like there are a *lot* of Land Rovers here in the Bay Area, maybe we should plan a picnic or BBQ or something so we can all get together and meet each other? Being a City boy, I'd prefer somewhere in SF, but I would show up in the east bay as well. Any thoughts? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 09:59:43 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:09 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: BAKC@giraffe.ru.ac.za, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: A Landrover ride. "Inclinometers"! Status: RO I've got a couple of those inclinometers, and I agree that it's not the best thing to be looking at when driving off-highway (that's my girlfriend's job), but they are interesting, and living here in The City (San Francisco, Ca) the one on the side provides some interesting information (and can be somewhat distressing when you know you have to work the clutch sitting on a 22 degree hill with a beemer sitting on your tail.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 09:58:00 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:12 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rover Names Status: RO I've not really settled on a name for my 109" yet... I thought of "Judas, a chariot", but that was voted down... "The 5-cent beast" was liked, but seems a bit unwieldy (that story will show up in the Aluminum Workhorse one of these days). I kinda like Monticello, both because my nickel mishap and because I'm a big fan of TJ, but I think that's kinda presumptious, no? So far, it's been INDY 1, as that's what the plates say. Haven't even started to think of a name for my 88". (Have to wait until the battle for possesion between my brother and girlfriend is settled first.) If it's any help, the Chevy Van I used to have (and loved) was named Sweet Pea... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 10:48:27 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 07:45:23 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: azw@aber.ac.uk, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing Status: RO > In my experience, of my visits, teh fuel is so much cheaper than EUROPE, > AND THE INCOMES FOR A PARTICULAR JOB ABOUT TWICE AS GREAT IN REAL TERMS > AS FOR THE EQUIVALENT bRIT, THAT FULE COSTS AR(bugger this terminal!!!)e > simply not a consideration for private motorists. I could run a Toyota 1 > tonne pickup in the States for the same as it cost me to run a CG125 > motorbike in teh UK!!! > > So who cares about getting more mpg from a deisel? These guys are > completely happy with 15mpg from a car that would bankrupt us! > > Fuel costs are so trivial as not to be a concern. > I wouldn't say we're "completely happy" with 15mpg... Some of us do care about the environment. Unfortunately, though, Land Rovers do get about 10-15mpg... or do they? I'm sure that if you guys on that side of the pond have to pay a lot more for petrol, you must get your gas mileage pretty high up. How do you do it? Any tips on improving gas mileage? And while I'm thinking about it... Has anyone ever heard of a Landie being converted to electric? I'm thinking about this fate for an 88" for commuting... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 09:58:39 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 10:49:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: LRO@stratus.com Subject: Re: How about the Land Rover Defender In-Reply-To: <2vca0v$j1g@happy.cc.utexas.edu> Status: RO Some people just have no idea: >Defender 90 is smaller and has a soft top. Basically, the Defender 90 >is a large Jeep (CJ/Wrangler Style). When I was at the dealership, the >salesman described the Defender 90 as "a Jeep on steriods." This >description is somewhat accurate. Put Quite simply, Land Rover outclasses any thing else on this Planet. Bar none. nuff said Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 11:38:01 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 09:26:09 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: sinasohn@crl.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO In message <199407071445.AA00692@crl2.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > Since it sure seems like there are a *lot* of Land Rovers here in the Bay > Area, maybe we should plan a picnic or BBQ or something so we can all get > together and meet each other? > > Being a City boy, I'd prefer somewhere in SF, but I would show up in the > east bay as well. > > Any thoughts? > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > A LAND ROVER meet in a CITY???? I can just picture a line of off road cars sitting along Van Ness, or at Fisherman's warf. How about moving it a little outside the city? say San Gragario beach? I can see it now, a circle of Land ROvers with the barbees cooking away in Fan Francisco's famed china town, followed up by a little off roading through the Golden Gate park rare plant collection ;^) I'll be camping out of my Land Rover along the Oregon coast between July 16 and 24 (out taking pictures). I will be happy to join in in a local Land Rover meet any other time outside a big city. Slight change of subject. Land Rover is the featured Marque at the Portland All British Field meet on the labour day weekend. I will be car camping up a couple of days ahead of the meet. Anyone South of Portland interested in going to the meet as a group? TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 11:59:03 1994 Date: Thu, 07 Jul 1994 09:49:49 PDT From: Bret Marquis (via RadioMail) Reply-To: bam@Bang.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: 90 RR thoughts To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Hello Folks.. I have a 90 Range Rover with 65k miles. Its had some minor problems over the 4 years I've had it. A few bizarre electrical problems during the first couple of months (with the cruise control on, driving at exactly 61mph, the air conditioning compressor would shut off - replaced computer). Otherwise no major out of pocket expenses. Land Rover did endear themselves to me by replacing the transmission a couple of months ago at mostly their expense 30k miles out of warranty (first shift of the day was slow). I've been considering trading it in on a newer vehicle. The new RR at $54k does not appeal to me and the other models don't seem like a step up. My concerns are mostly maintenance ones.. If I continue using the one I have off road, am I likely to start seeing major expenses on a regular basis? Whats real world expectations for the next 5-8 years? Pointers and thoughts appreciated.. Bret Marquis bam@bang.com --- Original Message --- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 14:40:24 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 12:31:51 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com, brabyn@skivs.ski.org Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 183 Status: RO How about a beach on the pennisula or one of the East Bay parks? Chabot, Sunol, Mt. Diablo? No wait,! The Pelican Inn at Muir Beach! it's a real, genuine, British pub. R, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 15:34:20 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 13:22:41 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Serial Numbers X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 247 Status: RO Gang, Is there someone out there in Roverland that can give me the year of manufacture for these serial numbers? My manual stops at 1961. 244 07108a (registered as 1964) 244 19257B ? I know the 244 is; SIIa 88 export. Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 14:08:20 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 11:52:43 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO Sounds like a good idea -- but having it in a civilized place like the City might not be optimal??? John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 15:46:16 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 13:37:46 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: bam@Bang.COM Subject: Re: 90 RR thoughts Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Another thought would be to trade it in on a newer but still used RR such as a 92 92 with low miles? Personally if it is used off road I'd stick to the non-swaybar models such as the 91 Hunter or 92 regular (non-County) model but your preference may be different. Supposedly in 91 (I think) they replaced many of the lucas sensors with Siemens ones to increase reliability. I can understand the price of the new RRs being a bit off-putting -- they are certainly way out of the question for me! I am hanging on to mine until it dies! Another factor in considering a new one is that I know there is a new RR model about to coming out at the Birmingham Motor Show this October (4.5 liter 32 valve engine, rounder body shape but same basic chassis) and some people might wish to wait for the model change -- the first major one in 24 years. Personally, from the photos I've seen they've spoiled the look of the vehicle by making it too much like all the other sport utilities -- pretty boring. John Brabyn Mill Valley, Ca 89 RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 15:51:26 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 13:42:06 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com, twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO I second TerriAnn's suggestion about not having it at Fisherman's Wharf. John Brabyn Mill Valley From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:26:59 1994 Date: 07 Jul 94 17:11:10 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing Status: RO >I'm sure that if you guys on that side of the pond have to pay a lot more >for petrol, you must get your gas mileage pretty high up. How do you do >it? Any tips on improving gas mileage? >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Uncle Roger >sinasohn@crl.com Sure, switch to a TDi ! (Oh no, there goes John Hong again...) Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:24:20 1994 Date: 07 Jul 94 17:11:16 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Rover Names Status: RO >I've not really settled on a name for my 109" yet... I thought of "Judas, >a chariot", but that was voted down... "The 5-cent beast" was liked, but >seems a bit unwieldy (that story will show up in the Aluminum Workhorse one >of these days). I kinda like Monticello, both because my nickel mishap and >because I'm a big fan of TJ, but I think that's kinda presumptious, no? > >So far, it's been INDY 1, as that's what the plates say. > >Haven't even started to think of a name for my 88". (Have to wait until >the battle for possesion between my brother and girlfriend is settled >first.) > >If it's any help, the Chevy Van I used to have (and loved) was named Sweet >Pea... >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Uncle Roger >sinasohn@crl.com If the Chevy was 'Sweet Pea', how about calling the 109 "Ol' Sour-Dough" ? (:-> Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:25:30 1994 Date: 07 Jul 94 17:11:21 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: diff locks,coil suspension Status: RO Craig Murray from Down Under wrote: >To fit coil springs would be a major hassle, first I would have to find >a Rangie chassie, and the money to buy it, then I would need to cut it up to >fit the car, and get it all welded up by some-one with a DLI ticket, and then >try and get pass an engineer, which is a bitch, they made my brother fit a heater, >when he fitted his v8. In Australia, and modifications have to be checked out >by an engineer. In England someone makes galvanized ready converted 'rolling' coil-sprung chassis (i.e. with axles, wheels, brakes, springs etc. fitted) for series III Landies (I suppose by drilling a few extra holes you could just as well fit a S.IIa) for around 3,000.- GB-Pounds. Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 16:33:14 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Thu, 07 Jul 94 17:16:43 EST Encoding: 808 Text To: bam@Bang.COM, brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re[2]: 90 RR thoughts Content-Length: 791 Status: RO John writes: > Another factor in considering a new one is that I know there is a new RR model > about to coming out at the Birmingham Motor Show this October (4.5 liter 32 > valve engine, rounder body shape but same basic chassis) and some people might > wish to wait for the model change -- the first major one in 24 years. This new model is positioned above the current Rangey. Can't imagine what they're going to charge for it... However, the changes to the current Rangey (dash, airbags, etc) and the new models being introduced, both the Highlander (rumored name) and the Discovery have an effect on prices of late model used cars. '92s and '93s are going cheap in my area! Everyone wants to upgrade to the latest and greatest...good news for the few of us on a budget... Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 18:20:51 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: diff locks,coil suspension To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 9:08:11 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Craig Murray from Down Under > wrote: > > >To fit coil springs would be a major hassle, first I would have to find > >a Rangie chassie, and the money to buy it, then I would need to cut it up to > >fit the car, and get it all welded up by some-one with a DLI ticket, and then > >try and get pass an engineer, which is a bitch, they made my brother fit a heater, > >when he fitted his v8. In Australia, and modifications have to be checked out > >by an engineer. > > In England someone makes galvanized ready converted 'rolling' coil-sprung > chassis (i.e. with axles, wheels, brakes, springs etc. fitted) for series III > Landies (I suppose by drilling a few extra holes you could just as well fit > a S.IIa) for around 3,000.- GB-Pounds. > > > Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> > LROC of Hessen > Wiesbaden, Germany > > You would not need to change the chassie at all to get a series IIA body to fit, as they are the same, but I own and 86" series 1, and there are big differences in chassies to the later vehicles. ie. I would have to cut (never never never never!!!!!!!) the bulk head and put later model pedals in, and I would have to fit a hydrolic clutch like the series II. And still you need the money to buy it. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria Inc. 2.25 Desiel (Soon!) mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 20:34:03 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: How about the Land Rover Defender To: jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jon Humphrey) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 10:57:51 +0930 (CST) Cc: LRO@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Jon Humphrey" at Jul 7, 94 10:49:33 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1510 Status: RO Jon Writes: > Some people just have no idea: No Kidding! > >Defender 90 is smaller and has a soft top. Basically, the Defender 90 > >is a large Jeep (CJ/Wrangler Style). When I was at the dealership, the > >salesman described the Defender 90 as "a Jeep on steriods." This > >description is somewhat accurate. > 90's are not available in OZ to my knowledge (OK Craig correct me now :-) An ex pat pom in the local LR Register has a 3.9efi auto 90 ute. This thing is truely awesome. Granted he knows how to drive it. At a club run a month or so ago he got bored with "follow the leader" and took a short cut... Straight up the side of the quarry wall. I could not have walked up this thing. Loose gravel and clay, washouts, side slope no problem! What about the ~2 foot (60cm) vertical bit in the middle??? No problem either, bury the throttle just before it then lift right off, 90 rises on coils, "jumps" the lip, then back on the throttle and over the top. Now I'd like to have seen a jeep try that. After the rest of us picked up our jaws one of the younger less conservative (more stupid??) members tried it in an 88. With a big run up, lots of wheel spin and a big slide to the left about half way up (couldnt jump the lip) he made it ... Just. The rest of us were left wondering why the '88 hadnt rolled! > Put Quite simply, Land Rover outclasses any thing else on this Planet. > Bar none Showing my bias I'll second that. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 22:53:31 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 21:41:48 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Isolated Ground Status: RO Michel, I do beleive that your comparisions to other Rovers is valid. All the electrical theory I learned made me start questioning how the wiring is grounded. And started me thinking about the isolated ground that the phone industry uses. I don't think changing the positive ground was really needed, but considering the alternator you re-fitted it was clearly the right thing to do. You did just what I will be doing with my 62. When the new/old frame goes under her, all new wiring goes in also. My other two will just have to get along with better grounds and some being isolated. Working on that with the 58 right now. Anything other than how Lucas originally had it will be an improvement. The stronger sound from your starter is not an illusion. If you got under there and measured the amps going to it I am sure it would be a higher reading than a non-isolated ground Rover. Luminisity is indeed a word but is usually used in ref. to the amount of light an object reflects. Go show on your wire job. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - Montana the Big Sky Country. PS - Your email address bounced for me. I was also considering a main battery cut out. Just a thought. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 01:12:39 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 94 23:58:36 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Gretting From the Travelers Status: RO Hello folks, Ben has made it to Montana and sitting next to me. And Jory made it late last night and is sitting on my left. So far so good for me (this is Ben). The Rover is running well despite being so loaded. Just about every large bump (like the boundary between some bridges and the` firm ground) results in a resounding thump as the axle hits the frame (and a groan from me). I'm really considering replacing the rear 88 springs with 109 or military springs. I'm not really carrying all that much mass. (6 passengers would weigh more). As another note when I visited Ben Freeman and saw hos Rover I noted that under the dashboard on his Series II I there were three holes (about 3in by 4 in) that were open to the vents. My Rover has no sign of these. Jory's Rover also has these vent holes. I thought that those holes would be really useful for driving in hot conditions (like by the Salton Sea or LA as I drove out (105 + degrees!)) So is this normal for early North American SIIIs? (Mine is the ~400th US SIII. In anycase I decided that I wanted these vent holes, so I used Jory's dremel tool and cut two of the three holes before darkness forced me to end for the night. Jory: Since I have to be in SF be monday, I've been pushing it (17 hours of uphill driving yesterday). The rover's been running pretty well, but I think I would enjoy some supplement to the uypper end power for climbing hills (turbocharged? gerbils in wheels? etc...) I am occasionally smelling what seems like a burning rubber smell, but I cannot find anything amiss. Anyone have any ideas? I stopped several times and checked everything... After driving 31 hours in 2 days, arriving at Roy's (with it's ever-exciting concept of showerage) was a godsend. After regaining some semblance of cleansed humanity, we talked rovers, and l;ater Roy showed us his collection of 3 rovers, including his 1958 ser I 88" He also has two garages, which seems kind of criminal to someone who is looking forward to someday having a driveway! Anyway, I'll ber trying for SF in the next couple days, with a brief stop at the salt flats (we'll see how fast the rover goes on the flats... probably no land speed records...). -jory/ben/roy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 02:18:43 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Jory's burning rubber smell. To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com (ROY CALDWELL) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 16:39:01 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407080558.AA02734@mtnoca.helena_noc> from "ROY CALDWELL" at Jul 7, 94 11:58:36 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 586 Status: RO > Jory writes: > > I am occasionally smelling what seems like a burning rubber smell, > but I cannot find anything amiss. Anyone have any ideas? I stopped > several times and checked everything... Try the drive-shaft (propellor shaft) slip-joint boots if you have them installed, I've had old ones rub on the chassis during "high-speed" running. They make a spectacular noise when they finally let go. Other posibilities I can think of include exhaust hangers, assorted hoses and wires, slipping fanbelt etc etc. Best of luck. -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 05:03:16 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing To: sinasohn@crl.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 10:52:34 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407071445.AA00718@crl2.crl.com>; from "Roger Sinasohn" at Jul 7, 94 7:45 am Status: RO I *have* seen an article wherein a Range Rover was converted to battery power,but never a Land Rover.Environmental-wise(ugh!) though,IMO electric power is nowt but a cop-out.It just shifts the pollution to someone elses backyard,unless you are fortunate enough to be able to site your power station in a desert or something.Speaking as someone living in an overcrowded island, within sight of three of the damned things,you can keep your electric power.Anyone *that* bothered about the environment should either walk or ride a horse,the latter being the ultimate off-road "vehicle". We dont get any better MPG out of our Rovers than anyone else,but that said,the fuel costs make fuel saving devices,such as engine pre-heaters,and electric fans that much more viable in terms of payback for initial outlay.To some degree,it probably accounts for the popularity of the diesel engine,too,for although the initial cost is greater,the built in fuel economy is a great incentive. It is also,whatever the politicions say,a btter bet environmentally. Granted,it suffers from particulate emmissions,but its CO output in virtually nil. The *actual* cost of a gallon of petrol,or diesel come to that,is probably much the same in England as it is in the USA.What makes it expensive is what the dratted "government" takes out of it(or puts on to it).Fuel tax,and riding piggy back on that,VAT.That is to say, every gallon has a fuel tax on it,and on the *total* thus obtained goes 17.5% Value Added Tax.Leaded petrol is way,way,up,diesel next(for some unexplainable reason)then unleaded petrol.The difference between leaded and unleaded makes an unleaded cylinder head quite an attractive proposition,particularly if you are doing high mileages.Which,of course, is another factor.You can undertake trips in the States(cant you Ben?) which would have you quite firmly on the sea bed over here.Unless,of course you happened to be driving Dunsfold Land Rover Museum's flotation equipped APGP S11.Complete with propeller on its propeller shaft.(Where else?).I would hazard a guess that our average annual mileages are much less than typical American mileages,simply because places here are closer together.Doesnt mean you can actually *get* there any quicker,oh no, although we *do* have roads built for the military,as I beleive US interstate roads were intended for?The difference is that *our* military roads were built for *Roman* armies in about 5AD. The best bloke to comment on that,though,is Bill C,who has been over here for a cuople of months now,and who is therefore fully qualified to compare. How about it Bill? I for one would be interested in your impressions. As a matter of record,we are,I think,one of the few,if the only country to reguarly use electric vehicles.They are called milk floats.They also have the unique distinction fo being the only thing on the road that a 2.25 diesel Land Rover can easily overtake.Which tells you a lot about electric vehicles. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 05:14:54 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Re: MOT's and the Road Rolls On. To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 11:02:32 +0000 (BST) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407041018.AA17401@hpc.lut.ac.uk> from "Mike Rooth" at Jul 4, 94 11:18:47 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 902 Status: RO > Steering must not have excessive play at the steering wheel,currently > 1-2" free play,I beleive... For vehicles with steering boxes, rule is 75mm regardless of the type of vehicle or the diameter of the steering wheel (which is a nuisance, since any given degree of angular play will translate into a greater degree of linear play with increasing wheel diameter...) > But if it aint there,they cant test it,there is as yet no law that forces you > to carry a spare. Are you sure? I've a nasty feeling that carrying a spare wheel is compulsory... > Older petrol engines are exempt from this(I forgrt *how* old)... Pre-1974. As for the schedule - for the princely sum of 16 pounds or thereabouts, HMSO (Her Majesty's Stationery Office - an official bookshop, for non-UK readers) will sell you a copy of the MOT testers manual - it's all in there, albeit phrased rather dryly. Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 07:39:33 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 08:27:46 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: there I go again Status: RO "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> write: >Sure, switch to a TDi ! (Oh no, there goes John Hong again...) TDI! TDI! TDI! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 08:24:59 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 08 Jul 1994 09:13:56 -0500 To: lro@team.net From: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu (Harry Greenspun) Subject: Should I buy the Discovery? Content-Length: 481 Status: RO I'm looking for some advice. I have always wanted a Land Rover and was delighted to see the introduction of the Discovery in the U.S. It appears to be far better than other SUV's, given its off-road ability and safety features. While I'm waiting (and waiting, and waiting) for one to arrive at the dealer, I would like to get some feedback on the vehicle concerning ride, reliability, service, etc. I'd also like to know what accessories people recommend. Thanks, Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 18:33:23 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: diff locks,coil suspension To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 9:20:51 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Craig Murray from Down Under > wrote: > > >To fit coil springs would be a major hassle, first I would have to find > >a Rangie chassie, and the money to buy it, then I would need to cut it up to > >fit the car, and get it all welded up by some-one with a DLI ticket, and then > >try and get pass an engineer, which is a bitch, they made my brother fit a heater, > >when he fitted his v8. In Australia, and modifications have to be checked out > >by an engineer. > > In England someone makes galvanized ready converted 'rolling' coil-sprung > chassis (i.e. with axles, wheels, brakes, springs etc. fitted) for series III > Landies (I suppose by drilling a few extra holes you could just as well fit > a S.IIa) for around 3,000.- GB-Pounds. > > > Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> > LROC of Hessen > Wiesbaden, Germany > > I think the series IIA body will fit on a series III chassie, but a series 1 has a snow flakes chance in hell of fitting onto a series III chassie with out modification, especially since mine is an 86". Some of the major differences are, the clutch on a series 1 is mechanical. The pedals are set up so that you push them down onto the floor (feels weird at first) which twists a shaft that go through one of the main bearers of the chassie and straight into the bell housing, so there would be major work needed in that area, as well as the fact that a series 1 is a couple of inches thinner than the later models. Besides, if it has coil springs, it would not be a series 1, and the engineer would make me put seat belts in! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria Inc. 2.25 Desiel (Soon!) mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 7 21:16:58 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: How about the Land Rover Defender To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 12:05:15 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Jon Writes: > > Some people just have no idea: > > No Kidding! > > > >Defender 90 is smaller and has a soft top. Basically, the Defender 90 > > >is a large Jeep (CJ/Wrangler Style). When I was at the dealership, the > > >salesman described the Defender 90 as "a Jeep on steriods." This > > >description is somewhat accurate. > > > > 90's are not available in OZ to my knowledge (OK Craig correct me now :-) > An ex pat pom in the local LR Register has a 3.9efi auto 90 ute. This thing > is truely awesome. Granted he knows how to drive it. > > At a club run a month or so ago he got bored with "follow the leader" and > took a short cut... Straight up the side of the quarry wall. I could not > have walked up this thing. Loose gravel and clay, washouts, side slope no > problem! What about the ~2 foot (60cm) vertical bit in the middle??? No > problem either, bury the throttle just before it then lift right off, 90 > rises on coils, "jumps" the lip, then back on the throttle and over the top. > > > Now I'd like to have seen a jeep try that. > > After the rest of us picked up our jaws one of the younger less conservative > (more stupid??) members tried it in an 88. With a big run up, lots of wheel > spin and a big slide to the left about half way up (couldnt jump the lip) he > made it ... Just. The rest of us were left wondering why the '88 hadnt rolled! > > > > Put Quite simply, Land Rover outclasses any thing else on this Planet. > > Bar none > > Showing my bias I'll second that. > > -- > > Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) > > Actually you are correct, but I have seen some one driving one around Melbourne, which the dude probably imported. I have heaps of rumors that the ninty is coming out to Australia, including way back in 1986. Personally I think that it is stupid that the 90 has not been released in Australia. Australia is so desperate for the 90 that I have seen 3 home made 90's. I have heard a rumor that they are going to be released late this year or early next year, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" Land Rover Owners Club of Victoria Inc. 2.25 Desiel (Soon!) mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 07:18:55 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 9 Jul 94 00:01:03 GMT To: Land-Rover-Owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Ben & Jory & Roy Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ben, I'll take a guess and assume you have a '72 Series III. As far as I know, all of the '72s (in the US at least) have a solid plate between the dash vents and the passenger compartment to direct the vent air up to the windsheild. Unfortunately, this kills all of the cooling air to the occupants of the Rover. I've seen some folks cut large rectangles in this plate (which works) and others where the dash was dissasembled and the plate removed (best but a big pain). I may be off the mark in interpreting what you've described but I hope this gives you some ideas. Oh, in '73 the plate was discarded or holes were made in it, I'm not sure which. By the way, when are you due back in NJ? >> As another note when I visited Ben Freeman and saw hos Rover I noted that under the dashboard on his Series II I there were three holes (about 3in by 4 in) that were open to the vents. My Rover has no sign of these. Jory's Rover also has these vent holes. I thought that those holes would be really useful for driving in hot conditions (like by the Salton Sea or LA as I drove out (105 + degrees!)) So is this normal for early North American SIIIs? (Mine is the ~400th US SIII. In anycase I decided that I wanted these vent holes, so I used Jory's dremel tool and cut two of the three holes before darkness forced me to end for the night. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------ Jory, The first thing that comes to mind is that your parking brake shoes are rubbing against the drum and drum and shoes and oil and rubber start to cook. I had this happen in my 109 occasionally until I replaced and adjusted the return spring on the linkage (there was none). Just an idea. >> Jory: Since I have to be in SF be monday, I've been pushing it (17 hours of uphill driving yesterday). The rover's been running pretty well, but I think I would enjoy some supplement to the uypper end power for climbing hills (turbocharged? gerbils in wheels? etc...) I am occasionally smelling what seems like a burning rubber smell, but I cannot find anything amiss. Anyone have any ideas? I stopped several times and checked everything... >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Roy, As for Rover names, I haven't come up with one for my 88 yet. My 109 is "Lory". Kind of a cross between a British truck and my ex-girlfriend Laurie. Lory may not be quite as exciting a ride as Laurie, but Lory never complains, is more fun on trips, doesn't cost me quite as much, and treats me better than Laurie. The only thing that Laurie had over Lory is that she didn't have any lubrication problems. She got married a few years ago, and all I can say is that it's better him than me. I'll have to work on the 88 name. Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 08:54:59 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: MOT's and the Road Rolls On. To: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 14:46:08 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407081002.AA01198@it040.dcs.qmw.ac.uk>; from "marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk" at Jul 8, 94 11:02 am Status: RO Thanks,Marcus,I ought to have asked you about how to get a copy of the schedule weeks ago.No-one I *did* ask thought it was available.Most of them mechanics! I'm 90% certain there isnt any law about spare wheels being carried,but I seem to remember vaguely something about having radials on the road and croos-plies on the spare,or vice-versa, which seems sensible. Difficult thing for the fuzz to check up on in most cases,without them getting the pretty blue uniform all yucky! Cheers Mike From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 10:24:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Fourfold bound mail... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 08 Jul 94 09:21:59 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO 'tis easier this way... A site higher up has bounced all fourfold-bound mail from Monday to this morning. (They have been updating the maps for the first time in a year and OCUnix is a huge uucp domain in the National Capital Region, with a lot of cross-feeds and redundencies etc.) If anyone had sent mail to any users (ie: Robin, Dale, Dave, Ted, Rob, Fred, Yves, Michel, etc) on this system, it would not have arrived, and probably bounced back (This includes the LRO mailing list from Monday am on to the last six messages). Please resend. Thx -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 12:28:58 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 94 10:17:57 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM, brabyn@skivs.ski.org, lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO That might be a good place. John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 12:46:47 1994 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 1994 13:32:06 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Various subjects, replies Status: RO FWIW- Land Rover has just announced a new powerplant for us on this side of the pond to covet: the 300 Tdi. If it is a good as the earlier version, it should be a real winner. BTW- The "Highlander" name is "owned" by Volvo who were going to use in for an off-road freight hauler. Unless Rover has bought the rights, the new vehicle name will be something else. "Pegasus" is being used for the prototypes. Jory (writing from Roy's) asks about an occasional burning rubber smell with nothing apparently amiss. (I'd describe it more as that of a smoldering match head.) I worried about the same thing...until I realized that it was coming from passing vehicles, especially ones flogging the engines hard and dumping fuel into overheated catalytic converters. Harry G. writes about waiting for a new Disco. I went mud bogging in one two weeks ago and the performance of that machine (even on with non-aggressive tires) is amazing. Best four wheel drive I had ever driven, that is, until I swapped and drove the 90! About the only place you couldn't drive it is up the face of an overhanging sand dune! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 14:02:09 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 11:55:02 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: LRO@STRATUS.COM, ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it Subject: Gidion's X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 531 Status: RO Ludovico, Can you help me find out if this company still exists, so that I can get some parts. Air-Camping Gidion's Milano (Italy) Via Archimede, 101 tel 723.196 I have a tent, made by above, that attaches to the top of my Rover, and unfolds so as to sleep up away from prowling lions and creeping crawlers. I bought this tent used and have no idea how it got to the US. There is a picture of a 109 displaying two of these tents in "...Work Horse of The World". Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 13:46:03 1994 From: whitmerm@netcom.com (Mark Whitmer) Subject: Land Rover Mailing List To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Jul 1994 11:38:10 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 406 Status: RO Greetings. A message was posted recently in rec.autos.tech that one should send mail to this address (land-rover-owner@stratus.com) to join the mailing list. As you might have guessed, I wish to do so. My email address is "whitmerm@netcom.com". Thanks, Mark Whitmer whitmerm@netcom.com -- "It's a shame that a family can be torn apart by something as simple as a pack of wild dogs." - Unknown From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 8 21:53:32 1994 Date: Fri, 08 Jul 1994 22:48:32 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: 300Tdi in the US? To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Sandy, Please, please, please tell us more about the availabilty of the 300Tdi engine. I drove such equipped Defender 110 and Disco on Land Rover's Experience courses back in April. A truely wonderful engine. (Much nicer than the petrol in my 87 RR) Anyway, I've made it a habit to call Land Rover in Md every so often to "inquire" about the availability of the 300Tdi. Coinciddentally, I called earlier today before seeing your note. The answer I got was not at the current time, but the woman promised to check with Engineering to see if any tests are in process to certify the engine with the EPA. She will be calling me back Monday. This was enough to get me excited anyway. Every previous call has been answered with something like "In the US, there is no demand for Diesel Engines; therefore we will not be making any effort to import such. [Hence the reason I call every couple of months-- don't want them to forget about us diesel lovers] Now the tragedy, to afford a Defender 110, I would have to wait until some used ones show up on the market. I would perfer a 90; but my dog (Great Dane) I am sure would perfer the 110. Incidently, if anyone stumbles onto an available LWB diesel, please let me know. Andrew Steele Dayton, Ohio From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 10 15:59:35 1994 Date: 10 Jul 94 16:47:56 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Dealers, parts; LR-FAQ Status: RO Folks, I'd like to place a request for a friend of mine who will soon take up a professional appointment in El Salvador. He's having his Defender shipped from Europa to Jacksonville and will continue overland from there. The info he'd like to have is a more or less comprehensive list of all Land Rover dealers, garages, parts&spares suppliers etc. along the US gulf coast (including Jacksonville), e.g. Tallahassee, Pensacola, Mobile, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Beaumont, Houston, Galveston, Corpus Christi, San Antonio,Laredo, Brownsville, or the respective vicinities. Problem is I still haven't managed to access the Land-Rover FAQ list, I'm sure it contains such information. Isn't there a site I could dial into directly as guest and retrieve it? I was told of the site triumph.cs.utah.edu, 155.99.208.4, but that seems to be a network address not a phone number. If so, what net would that be? TIA, Stefan R. Jacob LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 10 16:37:44 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 17:32:05 EDT Subject: roll bar, Diesel Badge, Digest Status: RO Does anybody know where I can get a british military roll bar? the ones that they put on the lightweights, they replace the first hoop in the hoopset also, I have a land rover diesel badge was somebody looking for one? lastly, I have beeb unable to subscribe to the digest version of this newsgroup has anybody been able to do so? Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 10 19:06:05 1994 Date: 10 Jul 94 18:53:34 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: "INTERNET:Spenny@aol.com" Cc: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Digest,roll bar ... Status: RO >lastly, I have been unable to subscribe to the digest version of this >newsgroup has anybody been able to do so? Well, I haven't actually _subscribed_ yet, but I did finally manage to get a response from the automatic list manager "Mojordomo". Send the one-line message help to Majordomo@Chunnel.uk stratus.com, and he'll tell you all about himself. I'll subscribe (or at least try to) next week. After that I'll be "offline" for about three weeks, rovering through France and northern Spain. Cheers, Stefan <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 10 18:51:44 1994 Date: Sun, 10 Jul 1994 18:43:22 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: roll bar, Diesel Badge, Digest To: Spenny@aol.com Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407101732.tn228683@aol.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi you might want to get in touch with a fellow called Melcolm Engleman in Onoway Alberta Canada. He has access to military units which are left in Canada by the Brits when they come to Suffield Alberta for gunnery practice. His prices are not high. I usually call him in the evening at 9 P.M. his time. His phone number is area code 403-967-5531. Tell him Dave Place from Selkirk Manitoba Canada said to call. I have bought such things as a tail gate and a military soft top from him this year. He bought out a Land Rover business in Calgary Alberta as well, so he has lots of parts. I hope this is of some use to you. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 01:56:22 1994 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 16:35:30 +1200 From: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Generator to alternator upgrade Content-Length: 1442 Content-Type: text Status: RO The armature windings in my IIA's generator seem to have decided that there are faster ways to earth than through the brushes. Of course it had to happen late at night while it was snowing still an hour drive away from my destination, Ohakune. The headlights were glowing dimly on 8V when I arrived. I'm now looking at either repairing it (replace the armature + armature bush) or replacing it with a suitable alternator such as the Lucas 16ACR which was fitted to later models (this will be more expensive). I'd have to make up a mounting bracket for the Holden motor in either case since the current bracket is broken, and the alternator mount is different. Another possibility might be to fit a Bosch alternator as came on the Holden originally, and in this case a mounting bracket will be easy to find. Rewiring to bypass the old regulator seems like it would be quite straitforward. So those of you who have gone to an alternator (Dale?), or who have considered it but decided not to, what do you figure are the pros and cons, and is it worth it? (Bear in mind I already have negative earth.) I think I should keep this repair cheap, since every dollar I spend on the vehicle at the moment strengthens Monique's case for me to sell it. Her and I have different ideas of what constitutes reliable. She seems to think it means "doesn't break down" while I think it means "is repairable." You'd all agree with me. Wouldn't you? From root@showme.missouri.edu Sun Jul 10 23:57:57 1994 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 00:00:01 -0500 From: root@showme.missouri.edu To: ccray@lulu Subject: showme cron daily mailstats -- 071194 Status: RO ------------- start of cron script output -------- 1.0.0 running as root, continuing... Sendmail statistics from file "/etc/sendmail.st" Collection started at Sun Jul 10 00:00:01 1994 Mailer msgs_from bytes_from msgs_to bytes_to ------------ --------- ---------- --------- ---------- local 191 295956 362 1006101 prog 0 0 3 2565 uucp 0 0 0 0 kinet 0 0 0 0 tcp 398 990069 224 367853 to987gateway 0 0 0 0 987gateway 0 0 0 0 ------------- ..end of cron script output ------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 10:06:47 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: ad158@dayton.wright.edu Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Defender 119 for sale (was: 300Tdi in the US?) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 07:50:44 Status: RO Andrew Steele writes: ... | Now the tragedy, to afford a Defender 110, I would have to wait until | some used ones show up on the market. I would perfer a 90; but my dog | (Great Dane) I am sure would perfer the 110. and as it turns out, in the sunday Seattle Times had a US '93 Defender 110 for sale (not mine!). the vehicle had 12,000 miles on it, no price listed, phone number 1.206.827.6649. ps: the first person that gets the digest version of LRO to *work*, please speak up. thanks. __ Lee Fisher, (not a spokesperson for) Microsoft Corp., Redmond, WA, USA leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621, 74750.776@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 03:37:36 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Generator to alternator upgrade To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 9:27:44 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407110435.AA22417@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz>; from "hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz" at Jul 11, 94 4:35 pm Status: RO My two pen'orth,for what its worth.Given reasonably "long" journeys, I would,personally,stick with the genny.For short trips the alternator wins,because of its suprior charging capability.The advantage of a genny is that it is almost infinitely repairable,and,in my view,*much* more reliable.The electronics in the alternator are liable to failure,and in ways which can cosr you a new battery through overcharging.The genny will simply cease to work.Its been my experience that replacing the electronics in an alternator lasts about a fortnight,if you're lucky,whereas I have revitalised a generator that looked as though it was fit for nothing but a doorstop.I must admit to a certain bias,however,since I am of the opinion that there is *no* plce for electronics of any sort in motor vehicles.This is an opinion shared by most mechanics I have spoken to. After all,manufacturers havent yet mastered simple *electrics* yet! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 06:15:06 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for lro@com.straus.transfer (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 12:08:44 BST Status: RO Forwarded message: >From postmaster@mailhost.lut.ac.uk Mon Jul 11 10:50 BST 1994 From: postmaster@mailhost.lut.ac.uk To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for lro@com.straus.transfer Message-Type: Delivery Report Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:50:09 +0100 Message-Id: <"mailhost.l.811:11.06.94.09.50.01"@lut.ac.uk> Content-Identifier: Temp Gauges ------------------------------ Start of body part 1 This report relates to your message: Subject: Temp Gauges, Message-ID: <9407110949.AA16005@hpc.lut.ac.uk>, To: lro@transfer.straus.com of Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:49:44 +0100 Your message was not delivered to lro@com.straus.transfer for the following reason: Unknown Address Nameserver error for transfer.straus.com: Non existant host/domain (NXDOMAIN) ***** The following information is directed towards the local administrator ***** and is not intended for the end user * * DR generated by: mta mailhost.lut.ac.uk * in /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/ * at Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:50:01 +0100 * * Converted to RFC 822 at uk.ac.lut.mailhost * at Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:50:10 +0100 * * Delivery Report Contents: * * Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/;<9407110949.AA16005@hpc.lut.ac.u] * Content-Identifier: Temp Gauges * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/arrival Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:49:44 +0100 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/arrival Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:49:37 +0100 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/arrival Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:49:35 +0100 action Relayed * Content-Correlator: Subject: Temp Gauges, * Message-ID: <9407110949.AA16005@hpc.lut.ac.uk>, * To: lro@transfer.straus.com* Recipient-Info: lro@com.straus.transfer, * /RFC-822=lro(a)transfer.straus.com/O=lut/PRMD=uk.ac/ADMD= /C=gb/; * FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1); * diagnostic Unrecognised-ORName (0); * last trace (ia5 text (2)) Mon, 11 Jul 1994 10:49:35 +0100; * converted eits ia5 text (2); * supplementary info "Nameserver error for transfer.straus.com: * Non existant host/domain (NXDOMAIN)"; ****** End of administration information ------------------------------ Start of forwarded message 1 Received: by hpc.lut.ac.uk (15.11/SMI-4.1) id AA16005; Mon, 11 Jul 94 10:49:37 bst Message-Id: <9407110949.AA16005@hpc.lut.ac.uk> From: Mike Rooth Subject: Temp Gauges To: lro@transfer.straus.com Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 10:49:35 BST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL0 (LUT)] Its perhaps worth realting this... (Read relating) I have never,until this weekend,got my water temp gauge to work. It crept to the upper edge of the white "cold" marker,and stayed there. Earthing the lead produced full scale dflection on the gauge,so that was OK.I replaced the transmitter five years ago.No change.In desperation,I bough a new thermostat,*another* transmitter,and two core plugs(more about those in a mo'). On taking out the transmitter,and comparing it with the replacement,I found that the replacement was longer than the one that I took out. The threaded body was the same,but the cylindrical sensor bit below it is a good half inch,rather than the bare quarter of the other.This meant that the bulb was hidden in the iron of the head,and didnt stick out into the water enough to get the full effect.Its possible that the old snsor was for a petrol(mines deisel)but tis worth bearing in mind if anyone has similar problems.Works fine,now.Anyone want a thermostat? Has anyone any idea how to remove the front two core plugs on a 2.25 diesel,engine in situ?Even with the manifolds removed,and the things in plain sight,I just dont seem to be able to work out any way of getting them out.Advice would be gratefully received. Cheers Mike Rooth ------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 08:38:25 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Gidion's From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 14:48:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO WL> Ludovico, WL> Can you help me find out if this company still exists, so that I can get WL> some parts. WL> Air-Camping WL> Gidion's WL> Milano (Italy) WL> Via Archimede, 101 WL> tel 723.196 Hi William, I could not sort out your e-mail address, so I'm sending this to the list (sorry...) The number you gave me is old, I've looked on the telephone directory, but this place doesn't exist anymore. Anyway, I have a friend with your same tent, I'm going to ask him where (if) you can find parts. I hope to have a reply for tonight/tomorrow. Bye Ludovico P.S.-I could not send mail to eng.sun.com or Eng.Sun.COM, what is your host name? __________________________________ Ludovico Magnocavallo ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it __________________________________ --- PPoint 1.86 / QWK From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 09:42:24 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 10:35:06 EST Encoding: 272 Text To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com (ROY CALDWELL), dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Jory's burning rubber smell. Content-Length: 264 Status: RO > Jory writes: > > I am occasionally smelling what seems like a burning rubber smell, > but I cannot find anything amiss. Anyone have any ideas? I stopped > several times and checked everything... Sounds like bad gas to me. Must be the midwestern food... ;-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 10:00:35 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 10:46:17 EST Encoding: 268 Text To: lro@team.net, jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: there I go again Content-Length: 255 Status: RO John (who else?) writes: > TDI! TDI! TDI! John, from your phone number I can tell that you live in oft-cold New England. Any comments on how the LR tdi engine would fare in subzero temperatures? Better than other diesels? Any drawbacks? TIA, Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 11:36:39 1994 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 09:27:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "walter swain (wcswain@ucdavis.edu)" Subject: Re: Defender 119 for sale (was: 300Tdi in the US?) To: leefi@microsoft.com Cc: ad158@dayton.wright.edu, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407111355.AA20781@netmail2.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO What is the address of the LRO digest? If I can find it, I may be able to get it to work. Walter Swain DAVIS, CA On Mon, 11 Jul 1994 leefi@microsoft.com wrote: > Andrew Steele writes: > ... > | Now the tragedy, to afford a Defender 110, I would have to wait until > | some used ones show up on the market. I would perfer a 90; but my dog > | (Great Dane) I am sure would perfer the 110. > > and as it turns out, in the sunday Seattle Times had a US '93 Defender > 110 for sale (not mine!). the vehicle had 12,000 miles on it, no price > listed, phone number 1.206.827.6649. > > ps: the first person that gets the digest version of LRO to *work*, please > speak up. thanks. > __ > Lee Fisher, (not a spokesperson for) Microsoft Corp., Redmond, WA, USA > leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621, 74750.776@compuserve.com > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 13:03:24 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 11 Jul 94 12:15:00 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: ohhhh theee heattt Status: RO does anyone of you vetran rover goers know of any remedy to dissipate the heat created by the exhaust under my feet. it has been unbearable the last couple of days since its gotten over 25 degrees. my truck is already topless, althought it helps it is still way too hot under there. i would also like to know what the normal opperating temp is in the city??? my truck gets in the middle of the n-h area and somtimes frightens me, should it get that hot? there doesn't seem to be a water leak and everything looks good so what could be bothering the cooling system. thermostat maybe???? one more thing i think the flex hose for the clutch slave needs replacing. every time i drive in the city and the truck gets hot i have some serious problems engaging into any gears as in can't get em into 1 2 and r i was told that maybe the flexhose is expanding due to the heat in the area??? any help would be appreciated. thx ben series 69 iia swb From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 13:11:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Gidion's From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 19:36:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO WL> Ludovico, WL> Can you help me find out if this company still exists, so that I can get WL> some parts. WL> Air-Camping WL> Gidion's WL> Milano (Italy) WL> Via Archimede, 101 WL> tel 723.196 Hi William, I could not sort out your e-mail address, so I'm sending this to the list (sorry...) The number you gave me is old, I've looked on the telephone directory, but this place doesn't exist anymore. Anyway, I have a friend with your same tent, I'm going to ask him where (if) you can find parts. I hope to have a reply for tonight/tomorrow. Bye Ludovico P.S.-I could not send mail to eng.sun.com or Eng.Sun.COM, what is your host name? __________________________________ Ludovico Magnocavallo ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it __________________________________ --- PPoint 1.86 / QWK From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 13:10:15 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Windscreen problems.... From: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 19:38:00 +0100 Organization: GALACTICA PROFESSIONAL COMM. +39-2-29006150 Status: RO I have spent all the afternoon trying to take the windscreen off my 88. I followed the workshop manual, unscrewed all the nuts and bolts that fix it to the roof and body, but I could not take it off. So I unbolted the roof structure, trying to build some play between it and the windscreen, only to find that the previous owner sealed the windscreen with TONS of silicone, glueing it to the roof. What can I do? Burn the silicone? Do I risk any damage to the roof/windscreen? Take off the roof and jump on the windscreen? Help..... Ludovico ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it __________________________________ Ludovico Magnocavallo ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it __________________________________ --- PPoint 1.86 / QWK From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 16:45:16 1994 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 16:29:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Generator to alternator upgrade To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407110435.AA22417@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Now is the time to go to the alternator. They will charge at idle while a generator needs some revs to get a charge on. If you own a winch, you really need an alternator. There are ones used in N.A. called Delcotron which have a built in regulator. They are the easiest to use. I have seen a number of alternators advertised which require only one wire to the battery. This would really make change over easy. Boat companies use this type quite often so try one in your area for a cheap one. I have changed my 64 over, using a bracket off a IIA on a II block. I drilled the hole normally used to hold the ong bolt for the generator and I used a grade 8 bolt to attach the unit. It is strong and it really works great. I hope you do the change, it is worth it. I run Ham Radio stuff in my vehicle and I really find it great. Dave VE4PN. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 16:48:37 1994 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 16:39:47 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Delivery Report (failure) for lro@com.straus.transfer (fwd) To: Mike Rooth Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407111108.AA29778@hpc.lut.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Core plugs. Drill, tap, put in a bolt, use a jimmy bar and it will pop out with a bit of work of course. I will look at my diesel block in the shed this evening and see if anything else will move it, but this is how we have done some V8s here and it works. Dave VE4PN From dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com Mon Jul 11 17:33:22 1994 From: Russell G. Dushin Subject: Re: Lulu's dynamo light is on and won't go off... To: ccray@lulu Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 18:36:14 EDT In-Reply-To: <9406281456.AA21010@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Jun 28, 94 9:56 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Ray- this may be coming in a bit on the late side, as I am sure you've figured it all out by now (your generating problems, that is), but i've been out for two weeks, so- awhile back I had the same thing happen.....all it turned out to be was that one of my wires from my dynamo had come into contact with my exhaust system (i had just done the thru-the-wing early SII type to conventional exhaust conversion and hadn't paid close enough attention to the routing of the wires). electrical tape fixed it in a snap. didn't read too carefully what you had posted (i have over 250 messages in my box, and not nearly enough BANTER amoungst it to keep my sense of humor sparked and my attention sharpened!), but it seemed as though you've got it very much under control. perhaps you also posted the solution (i'll get around to reading it tomorrow, or the next day.....)..... rgds, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 07:09:23 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 11 Jul 94 23:35:56 GMT To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Cut Off Message & Other Stuff Content-Type: Text Status: RO Dixon, Your message did arrive intact. I just thought there might be more. Vince (my neighbor with the IIA 88) and I made some progress over the weekend with his vehicle. He drained his gas tank and lots of nasty stuff came out. I decided to pull the inspection cover from under the RH seat and remove the sender so that we could look inside, because as he reached in the drain hole and felt around with his finger, he was finding a lot of crud. Once we got the sender off we looked inside with a flashlight and it was caked. My first thought was to spray gunk in the tank and finish up with a garden hose but Vince suggested that we use his power washer. I was expecting some $29.95 gadget, but he had a really nice $200 + high pressure unit, and he showed me how it could clean off concrete, with just cold water! Wow!. He went to work and really loosened the stuff up. When he finished there was only some fine residual stuff left, and we finished off with paper towels on a coathanger. We left the tank open to dry for a couple of days, then went to work bleeding his non-functioning clutch. We cleaned out the master cylinder reservoir then pumped a half a container of brake fluid through until it came out clear. the clutch works well now but we need to keep an eye on it because the reservoir was dry initially and the fluid had to go somewhere. On my 88 I replaced the brake servo check valve (the grommet on the old valve had split and no one sells just the grommet. So $22 and shipping cures the split grommet. I also replaced the fluid in my diff, main box & transfer and OD. I'm glad I bought a case of the stuff last time. Also there seemed to be oil around the base of the distributor, so I replaced the base gasket and used gasket sealer. I didn't replace the cork ring yet as I wanted to see if this did the trick. It didn't. Next chance I have I'll pull the distributor and replace the cork ring. Once we get Vince's 88 on the road, I'll put the whole story together for the newsletter. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 20:07:33 1994 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 17:42:22 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Sender: James B Russell Reply-To: James B Russell Subject: Re: Generator to alternator upgrade To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407110435.AA22417@nezsupp.fujitsu.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: RO I vote for the alternator. I recently changed my '66 IIA over to an alternator and wonder why I didn't before. Actually, it was a tough decision because I had nursed the first Lucas C40 through something like ten years and it's replacement another seven. Alas, the third one recently went out on me and I decided it was time not to have to worry if I was stuck in traffic at night or wanted to add some electrical accessory. I went with the Lucas 16ACR because I wanted a minimum of hassles. That way I knew that the bracket, alternator, and all the assorted bits would fit my 2.25L. The only hassle was having to remove the frint engine pulley to replace the bracket. On the other hand, there are likely some very good alternator options -- the Lucas beats the 22 amps of the C40 but not by much and it is expensive. In my case I didn't have the time nor inclination to mess around with trying to get a bracket, etc., etc. My gut feeling is that alternators are quite reliable. By the way, I would add to the "is repairable" comment, "...and can usually be fixed in the field enough to get you home." Jim Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 21:25:04 1994 Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 19:16:56 PDT From: Vance Chin To: lro@stratus.com Subject: British car meet in Hayward, California Status: RO I just got a letter from British Pacific about a meet in the S.F. bay area. According to the Aluminum Workhorse this is supposed to just be a swap meet. The flier says that they will have a place for landrovers. I am thinking about going, but would hope that other landrovers (and their owners) would show up. Vance Chin Series III 88 P.S. please email if you are going. COMPLETE FLIER TEXT: THE BRITISH CAR MEET CAL STATE HAYWARD - JULY 17, 1994 This new event is run by our old friends from the Morris and Mini clubs (organizers of Palo Alto, on September 11th this year). The usual selection of fine (and somewhat less than pristine) British oil leakers will be on display, as well as parts vendors, food, and entertainment. Bring your Land Rover (any model, year, or condition!) and look for our booth. Cars will be allowed in at 10 am, and spectatros are admitted free. REGISTRATION: $15 per vehicle, and 'for sale' signs are permitted. Price includes pepople's choise awards and an event gift. Land Rovers will park in a special section, next to our booth . DIRECTIONS: From 280, 101, or 880, take Higghway 92 (San Mateo Bridge) east. A few blocks esast of the 880 you will find Harder Road. Turn right on Harder and follow it around past Mission Blvd. and onto the campus. Look for signs. INFO: 510-370-1956 or 310-392-6605 note from me: the directions are ok, but take a look at a map. For there are better ways to get there i.e. from SF and the valley. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 21:37:34 1994 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 22:31:52 EDT Subject: Re: ohhhh theee heattt Status: RO Ben Writesx does anyone of you vetran rover goers know of any remedy to dissipate the heat created by the exhaust under my feet. it has been unbearable the last couple of days since its gotten over 25 degrees Rovers North offered a solution a while ago in one of their newsletters, cutting holes in the door skins, and installing vents. if you cant find it or dont have it i can send you a xerox of the article Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 23:24:35 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: ohhhh theee heattt From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 22:38:23 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com writes: > does anyone of you vetran rover goers know of any remedy to dissipate the he > created by the exhaust under my feet. it has been unbearable the last couple > days since its gotten over 25 degrees. my truck is already topless, althought > helps it is still way too hot under there. i would also like to know what the > normal opperating temp is in the city??? my truck gets in the middle of the n > area and somtimes frightens me, should it get that hot? there doesn't seem to > a water leak and everything looks good so what could be bothering the cooling > system. thermostat maybe???? The Swamp Beast runs about 80c in city driving in Ottawa whhen the ambient outside temperature is around 30c. In the woods on a hot day, it is normal to see it sitting around 90c while idling before a mud hole and awaiting the extraction of some poor unfortunate before me. The interior temperature is something better not related, but it does keep away the black flies and mosquitos... It has never burned yet, and I don't see it doing so. At least up here, the petrol engines run rather hot. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 00:23:43 1994 From: stevensh@cuug.ab.ca (Stevens) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 94 23:26:21 MDT To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Nice to be back, but no LR for me yet. Status: RO It's great to be back on this list, although it took a little longer than I thought to get plugged back in following my trip back to Calgary from Boston. Haven't got my .sig file reconstructed here yet, but hope to once again subject the list to my rough rendering of a Land Rover nose on. I have to say I was a little disappointed with the Land Rover content of my cross-Canada trip, seeing only one of Solihull's best between Beantown and Cowtown. That was a red 88" on the south side of the Trans-Canada, I think in Ontario. (Sorry I can't be more specific on the location, but I was taking a turn at navigator and had just woken from a nap.) That was it. One lone individual. However, I have seen a few since returning to Calgary. There is a big MG gathering here this week, the Gathering of the Faithful - West, in Kananaskis, and while I was out registering my '64 B I spotted a lovely, bright yellow 88" SW, belonging, I think, to one of the MG Car Club of Calgary people. I've seen another 88" driving by, but I always seem to be a block or two away when it goes by, and there's a 109" nearby. It's an unknown configuration to me (newbie LR fan that I am). Not a truck body, but not a station wagon either. It has a full-length hardtop body on the rear, with what look like a couple of afterthought windows in each side. Is this common? I can get more details if anyone's interested. Until next time, cheers. -- Henry Stevens (ex: hstevens@mgb.tiac.net) stevensh@cuug.ab.ca From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 00:44:34 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Windscreen problems.... To: ludovico.magnocavallo@galactica.it (Ludovico Magnocavallo) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 1994 23:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Ludovico Magnocavallo" at Jul 11, 94 07:38:00 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1630 Status: RO Ludovico scribe, < I have spent all the afternoon trying to take the windscreen off < my 88. I followed the workshop manual, unscrewed all the nuts < and bolts that fix it to the roof and body, but I could not take < it off. < So I unbolted the roof structure, trying to build some play < between it and the windscreen, only to find that the previous < owner sealed the windscreen with TONS of silicone, glueing it < to the roof. < What can I do? < Burn the silicone? Do I risk any damage to the roof/windscreen? < Take off the roof and jump on the windscreen? Taking off the windscreen, but not the roof? Not sure I'm picturing this correctly... but anyway... Assuming you have only unbolted the roof at the windscreen, go ahead and unbolt the rest of the roof. Then lift the roof from the rear. If the silicone still won't yield, prop the rear of the roof up as far as it will go without actually bending any metal. Then chisel into the silicone. I had the same previous owner experience, but perhaps not so generous with the gunk. The chisel easily separated roof from windscreen with no damage to either. Then you should be able to do whatever else you are trying to do with the windshield. If the windshield has not been moved in ages, the rubber seal at the base has probably petrified and will stick a bit before you can bend the windshield forward. You will most likely need to replace that seal if you don't want water dribbling in your lap. Ciao! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 08:27:42 1994 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 09:22:44 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: there I go again Status: RO Hi Lee; I am FAR from being a TDi expert - I just know what I hear - TDi owners in the UK are DELIGHTED with it - main complaint was a ticking sound (which I actually like) in the 200 series which has now been significantly reduced in the new 300. If you mean sub zero Celsius - NO Problem. If you mean sub zero F ??? I don't know - The UK gets at least as cold as Boston (where I am) so it should be okay. As for Upper Maine ??? I do rant on about carrying a small gasoline powered generator - if it is really cold you could run the generator to power a electric block heater. Many of these little boxes do both 120ac and 12dc! Wonder how they start in really cold weather. John >John (who else?) writes: >> TDI! TDI! TDI! > >John, from your phone number I can tell that you live in oft-cold New England. >Any comments on how the LR tdi engine would fare in subzero temperatures? >Better than other diesels? Any drawbacks? >TIA, >Lee John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 18:23:27 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Re: Generator to alternator upgrade To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 9:14:19 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > My two pen'orth,for what its worth.Given reasonably "long" journeys, > I would,personally,stick with the genny.For short trips the alternator > wins,because of its suprior charging capability.The advantage of a genny > is that it is almost infinitely repairable,and,in my view,*much* more > reliable.The electronics in the alternator are liable to failure,and in > ways which can cosr you a new battery through overcharging.The genny will > simply cease to work.Its been my experience that replacing the electronics > in an alternator lasts about a fortnight,if you're lucky,whereas I have > revitalised a generator that looked as though it was fit for nothing but > a doorstop.I must admit to a certain bias,however,since I am of the > opinion that there is *no* plce for electronics of any sort in motor > vehicles.This is an opinion shared by most mechanics I have spoken to. > After all,manufacturers havent yet mastered simple *electrics* yet! > Cheers > Mike Rooth > > If I was you, I would go with the alternator, my alternator has only let me down once, when every thing inside it was stuffed, and I mean every- thing! The alternator I have got has an external regulator on it, so you could probably wire it up to the one existing on you car. As for Mike, if you are talking about the eletronics only lasting two weeks in an alternator, I take it you are talking about a lucas Alternator, which just about every-one I know told me to avoid, while I was looking at what to fit to my 2.25 desiel (Alternator/generator), so I fitted the Bosch Alternator off my holden motor. Now as for it being unreliable, my alternator lasted about two months less then the Holden motor, which died through dust inhalation, which just shows how mush shit they can put up with. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" mail: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au 2.25 desiel (Soon!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 09:32:27 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: Re: there I go again Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 07:19:00 PDT Encoding: 23 TEXT Status: RO >Hi Lee; > > ... bits omitted > >I do rant on about carrying a small gasoline powered generator - if it is >really cold you could run the generator to power a electric block heater. >Many of these little boxes do both 120ac and 12dc! Wonder how they start in >really cold weather. > >John Simpler yet, there are a couple of companies that advertise block heaters that run off your diesel tank (seen in LRO mag). I had a similar setup for an auxilliary space heater in a 110 camper. It ran off the diesel tank and would really put out the heat inside the vehicle, without having to start the engine. The block heater version is nearly identical, except it taps into the water system in the engine compartment. Seems a bit simpler than carrying a generator... Rosty aka John Rostykus - john@data-io.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 11 21:59:06 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: ohhhh theee heattt To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 12:50:01 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > > does anyone of you vetran rover goers know of any remedy to dissipate the heat > created by the exhaust under my feet. it has been unbearable the last couple of > days since its gotten over 25 degrees. my truck is already topless, althought it > helps it is still way too hot under there. i would also like to know what the > normal opperating temp is in the city??? my truck gets in the middle of the n-h > area and somtimes frightens me, should it get that hot? there doesn't seem to be > a water leak and everything looks good so what could be bothering the cooling > system. thermostat maybe???? one more thing i think the flex hose for the clutch > slave needs replacing. every time i drive in the city and the truck gets hot i > have some serious problems engaging into any gears as in can't get em into 1 2 > and r i was told that maybe the flexhose is expanding due to the heat in the > area??? any help would be appreciated. thx > ben series 69 iia swb > The series 1 had a heat shield which acted like a tropical roof, its just a piece of sheet metal that is held away from the actual exhaust pipe. Real heat is when you have a hole in your radiator, and it is about 40 degrees, and you need to have both heaters on and stop every five minutes to let the motor cool down, while climbing out of a vally with climbs of up to 40-45 degrees, that is when the cabin gets real hot! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 06:35:02 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 12 Jul 94 23:26:57 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Re: ohhhh theee heattt Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ben writes: >> does anyone of you vetran rover goers know of any remedy to dissipate the heat created by the exhaust under my feet. it has been unbearable the last couple of days since its gotten over 25 degrees. my truck is already topless, althought it helps it is still way too hot under there. i would also like to know what the normal opperating temp is in the city??? my truck gets in the middle of the n-h area and somtimes frightens me, should it get that hot? there doesn't seem to be a water leak and everything looks good so what could be bothering the cooling system. thermostat maybe???? one more thing i think the flex hose for the clutch slave needs replacing. every time i drive in the city and the truck gets hot i have some serious problems engaging into any gears as in can't get em into 1 2 and r i was told that maybe the flexhose is expanding due to the heat in the area??? any help would be appreciated. thx ben series 69 iia swb >> Ben, The heat shield is probably missing from your exhaust manifold. This will dramatically increase the heat to the footwell area. As for the high operating temperature, first I would check the timing to ensure it's not retarded and then change the thermostat. Also, make sure no exhaust gases are blowing out between the headpipe and the manifold itself. This will prevent the exhaust and heat in the engine from scavenging properly (makes it run hot). And yes, your clutch flex line is probably expanding. While you're replacing it, you may as well replace the slave cylinder while you're in the area. Good Luck! Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 07:07:58 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 12 Jul 94 23:43:13 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: July LRO Content-Type: Text Status: RO I just got my July issue of LRO. This is the earliest I've received it in quite a while. Robin Craig's article on the Canadian Discovery launch was included (nice job Robin) and there was a small tear in the middle of both pages. Very puzzling. Someone at LRO must be reading the net, 'cause this month they had 2 articles on leaf sprung Rover maintenance. One was on dissasembling a III box with mainshaft, reverse gear, and synchro problems. The diagnosis is to fit a reconditioned box. We in the US would probably do the same if we could get a reconditioned gearbox for $600. The other was a "cure" for leaky rear axles. Pack the bearings with grease. I'm surprised they ran it. If you're going to go through that much trouble it's not that much more work to replace the hub seal races and clear the axle breather at the same time. And it saves you the hassle of packing the bearings. That's it for now Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 10:51:20 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: muffler location for 109 4 door? Date: 12 Jul 1994 15:37:25 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9407011551.AA12660@apple.com>, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >One of my summer projects is going to be putting a rear petrol tank in the back >of my 109 two door. I have a new tank, a complete set of new fittings, and a >filler set up for a 109 heavy duty pickup. Before I can start fitting the tank >I am going to have to get the muffler moved. Where does the muffler normally >sit in 4 door 109s? In front of the read axle, inclined upwards, long dimension of the can running front to back. The downpipe remains the same, different middle pipe, but uses the same hanger, and the tail pipe/muffler needs a hanger bracket that is not there. Simple bracket that holds two horizontal holes off the frame (by about an inch) that support the hanger on top of the muffler. One of those rectangular rubber pieces with four holes bolts between the bracket and the muffler. If you have a left hand drive, the last hanger at the back left corner will support the station wagon tail pipe with use of the correct hanger hardware, which is different than the 2-door hardware. I think all this may interfere with your pland for a water tank, though! Other considerations: 1. If you are using a stock 109 station wagon tank, you may have to modify the frame. Station wagons frames, the second to last cross member is square, without a PTO hole; it is flat across the bottom. Your cross member has a bulge in the bottom to accommodate the PTO. On the three frames that I helped put these tanks in (one was my 109--the guinney pig) we seperated the bottom plate from the cross member under the PTO hole and peeled it back, cut the sides straight so that the countour was flat across the bottom of the entire cross member, then re-attached the bottom piece. Ther was a little excess bottom plate left over, which was cut off, as the bottom no longer went down and around the PTO hole. The PTO hole now looks like a "D" on its back. The bottom plate was attached right across the half-PTO hole, from one side to the other. 2. Station wagons have two access holes in the bed, which you may want to add. One is larger, over the sending unit and hose clamp for the vent hose. The smaller cover is over the second vent pipe. I forget which, but one access has two vent pipes, the other one. Two of these vents are connected together, so that the two sections of tank extending up along each side of the second to last cross member are connected, the other vent goes to the filler. The hose connecting the tank halves is attached after the tank goes in, as the hose goes over the cross member. This makes those access holes pretty essential. This may all be moot if tank design has changed, or you're not using a stock tank. Hope you have an example of a 109 station wagon near by, it really helps to have a pattern. Also, the sending unit helps. Those back tanks are bigger, and its nice to know: how much is left, and, as your engine sputters, you can glance at that guage and see that the tank really is out of gas. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 12 10:52:43 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: ohhhh theee heattt Date: 12 Jul 1994 15:46:55 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <"Macintosh*/PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@mhs>, wrote: > >does anyone of you vetran rover goers know of any remedy to dissipate the heat >created by the exhaust under my feet. it has been unbearable the last couple of >days since its gotten over 25 degrees. my truck is already topless, althought it Tire-link mats help the fried foot syndrome. They put some air between the floor boards and the feet. With electric guages, I'd first suspect the guage. Check it with a pocket temp guage you can get from a parts store or mechanics tool truck. They look like a small meat thermometer, metal shaft with a dial guage on top. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 12 15:41:35 2024 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 15:28:21 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: ohhhh theee heattt To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9407120250.AA22504@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Read the Aluminum work horse of simetime last year. A fellow with the same problem found that if you use the North American thermostat without the skirt the flow is not correct for our engines. I was having the same problem and after checking the easy stuff like slipping belt, dirty water jacket, crushed lower hose, timing off, restricted rad with bugs etc. I changed my thermostat to the skirted type and presto no more problems. The article went into quite a bit of technical stuff but basicaly there is a path for the water that is not used correctly when you have the flat U.S. type. I ordered one from a Land Rover dealer and got another flat type. Only after ordering from England and telling them what I wanted did I get the right type. It is worth a try. Mine got so hot I would get vapour lock from under the hood heat. My floor is cooler now as well. Dave VE4PN X From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 12 15:47:39 2024 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 15:35:55 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Windscreen problems.... To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: Ludovico Magnocavallo , lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407120536.XAA19343@mercury.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re the gunk on the windshield. You can try what windshield shops do. They use what looks like a gorrot (spelling ?) Anyway it is a piece of wire with a wooden dowel at each end so you have a wire saw. One fellow goes inside and one outside and you slice through the stuff. It is not very strong when cut with a wire so you should have no problem separating it using this method. When you replace it, use 1" wide foam tape with the adhesive back on one side and the plastic side on the other. Because it gets to -40 F. up here we do this to all the joints between the cab and the windshield etc. and it works great. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 12 16:31:40 2024 To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: July LRO In-Reply-To: Your message of "12 Jul 1994 23:43:13 GMT." <199407121203.IAA08783@transfer.stratus.com> Date: Tue, 12 Jul 1994 14:02:20 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Bill, There also should be an article in the stateside beat section covering the Northwest Challenge we had here in April. We had a freelance writer sponsered by LRO come over from Colorado and ride with Doug Shipman, our local LR guru. The guy said the article was supposed to be in the July issue, look through it and let me know, I haven't gotten mine yet. rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com 72 Ser lll 88 Portland Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 12 17:10:07 2024 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: waxoyl To: 75126.1123@CompuServe.COM (Keith Steele) Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 18:00:35 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <940712204839_75126.1123_FHD59-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Keith Steele" at Jul 12, 94 4:48 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Russell; > > Someone mentioned that Moss Motors in either Goleta or Santa Barbara > California stocked waxoyl. The two cities are right next to each > other and are in the 805 telephone area code so telephone information > for the 805 area code will get you their number. I should get Rover > back from the shop in 3 weeks and if you have not called Moss Motors > by that time I will. I used to live out there. Moss Motors is a > LARGE parts and repair shop specalizing in British cars from Austins > to Rolls Royces. I used them for Triumph Spitfire parts. I don't > know if they stock Land Rover parts because Atlantic British was also > close by when I lived in California and I used them for Rover parts and > service. > > Hope this helps. If you find that they cary waxoyl in the next week > or so could you let me know? Thanks > > Keith Steele > 75126,1123@compuserve.com > 72' Series III 88 since new > > Hey thanks, Keith. I called Moss Motors ((805) 968-1041) and they do, in fact, stock waxoyl. It is available as a kit (which includes 2L of waxoyl and a sprayer device) or as refills (lacking the sprayer, naturally). The kit goes for $48.95 and I ordered one. yahoo, rd/da nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 12 18:50:55 2024 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 18:05:09 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO WPCP 2BVPZ&Courier 10cp Roland Raven D%X@USUS2N#|x NEW BOOK OUT Land Rover Discovery, The Enthusiasts Companion By James Taylor ISBN 0)947981)79)9 Retail in Canada $34.95 plus taxes I just got my copy of this book, a nice hard back piece ofreference material. Gives the history behind the Discovery and its evolution up till about the end of last year. I really like the book and it will be a good addition to my small but ever growing library of material If you are in the Ottawa area then Hobby House on Montreal Road canget this one for you, just speak to Terry Jones. Robin Craig /s -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 12 18:46:50 2024 Date: Tue, 12 Jul 94 19:35:42 EDT From: kkurz@torrey.umm.maine.edu To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: subscribe Status: RO From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 13 08:24:50 2024 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 09:15:53 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: baby generators Status: RO John Rostykus writes: >Simpler yet, there are a couple of companies that advertise block heaters >that run off your diesel tank (seen in LRO mag). SNIP >Seems a bit simpler than carrying a generator... >Rosty >aka John Rostykus - john@data-io.com JohnR - don't these things cost like +800 dollars US? One of them 1400watt petrol generators cost $600 US AND I can use it for other things too like jumpstarting myself or running my microwave, tv/vcr, AC, blender and fridge all year round. :) It is REALLY COLD here (Boston) only a few times a year so if I already have a plugin block warmer and a generator...I can plug in my electric blanket while the block heater does its work... So the question remains - how well do these little generators start in cold weather - say zero to -10 F? Anybody try it? Thanks! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 13 14:16:23 2024 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: baby generators To: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 11:00:05 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407131315.JAA05306@zork.tiac.net>; from "John Hong" at Jul 13, 94 9:15 am Status: RO I used to use a small camp stove to pre heat my bug engine in -25f weather while camping. I still carry a stove in my rover. If worse comes to worse, I can burn the rover for a signal fire, and collect on the insurnace when I get home. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 13 17:12:00 2024 From: Dan Chayes Subject: Used RR Questions To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 18:03:31 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Status: RO For you Range Rover Owners out there - With the rumor of lower prices of used RRs I test test drove a '90 Country that the dealer wanted $25.9k for - It drove kind of nice, but had a fair amount of body roll - It has been neglected & abused - at only 57k miles and 4 years it was showing more signs of rust than my 11 year old BMW. But then again it did originate in New Jersey, no stereo - and the "ABS" light on the dash did not go off - no records - no owners manual, and the stearing wheel was not on straight, for $15k it might have been an ok purchase. The dealer stuck the magnetic license plate holder to the tail gate - I thought Rangies had alumimium bodies, what gives ? What are the know "problem" areas ? yea - I know lucas electrics What does the "country" package include ? What does the "hunter" package include ? Sometime around the '89 the engine got larger - does any body know when ? Are the older units that underpowered ? What are you RR owners out there getting for mpg ? I checked out the blue book prices '88 avg. retail $14,875 '89 avg. retail $18,625 '90 avg. retail $22,500 Country package add $900 to $2000 Do these seem "inline" of other areas of the country ? I'm in the washington dc area. Do you think a '88/89 RR will still be trundling down the road in 10 years in to the new century ? I'm looking for something to replace my aging BMW 325e w/ 166kmiles, and I'm not at all impressed with the other SUV and the new DISCO's are a still a bit expensive. and the 110s even more so Thanks for the advance for the advice - dan '74 Series III/ 88 undergoing right swivel pin housing overall From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 13 17:37:20 2024 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 94 18:29:11 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Folks- Bill G. (?) recently wrote in requesting info from our new Italian friend about the availability of parts for his italian made tent that apparently hooks up to his rover. (Sorry, no help here, but.....) Just so happens I was thumbing my way through a campmoor catalog the other night and came across a few "tent-to-auto" attachments made by Eureka (not an entirely disreputable tent maker)....there were several types, some that seemed to hang from the car and one that was free standing but could be attached, with various applications (including for smaller pickups with cabs, jeep cherokees, and cj's). The one I was most interested in was a free standing variety, and for a mere $100 US it boasted of having ample floor space (9' x 9', I think), headroom (over 6'), nylon construction with heavier fabric for the floor and a taffeta-coated fly, bug netting, shock-corded poles, etc...this one fit a cj so I'd expect it'd just do fine on my dear Nigel (an 88) as well. Anyone out there own this tent? Any similar tents? Wanna know real bad 'cause me and the lil' woman just got back from a canoeing trip in canada where we did over 20 km of portaging (x2 trips=40+km loaded and 20km unloaded) in under a week and she wants to take Nigel next time (haven't figured out just how I'll get Nige into a 16' canoe, though). rd/that nige thing. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 13 22:31:27 2024 Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 23:21:00 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Misc & Defender $$$ To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I called phone # previously posted for the Defender 110 w/ 12,000 miles. The damage is $45,000. I asked the woman (her husband was out showing it) why they wanted to sell. She said no reason in particular; they bought it as an investment, and like it enough that they are reconsidering selling it. If Defenders are selling for this much, it would be more likely to find bars of gold nudged up against the wall in my garage. Are they really this much, the little bit of priceing I did in England while visiting there this April was around 20,000 sterling or slightly over 30,000 dollars by my caculations. Karen @ Landrover NA called me back today. She didn't have any more details than she had Friday. Engineering told her they are considering diesels for the US market, but have no dates. Re the Used Range Rover note, (I'm sorry I've forgotten your name) The little bit I've followed prices indicates that Wash DC and NYC area Range Rovers are several dollars cheaper than the ones advertised in the Mid West. I suspect that it's a straight supply and demand ratio, with more Range Rovers available in those markets. [I met several thousand cheaper above -- I still have not figured out the editor on this sytem ... sorry...] Rust on the Range Rover -- I have an 87, purchased used, which has rust just starting to show on welds on the body at the rear doors and the rear window glass hatch is rusting. The dealer did aprox $600 of rust repair at the tail end of the warrenty in 1992 including the above noted rear door area and replacement of two joined areas inside the engine compartment over the front wheel wells. The other rust problem was on the gas tank, enough to cause a leak. Enough said Andrew Dayton Ohio From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 13 22:53:04 2024 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Allan Smith) Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 20:41:27 -0700 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Standard CB Channel? Status: RO Usually, on the freeways, people uses Channel 19 for general use and hailing. Personel conversations then move to more quiet channels. At one point various highways near NY city had different specific channels but that died and everyone tended to 19. Benjamin smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 14 11:15:23 2024 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 09:04:59 MST From: DEBROWN@srp.gov To: lro@team.net Subject: Leather seats vs. cloth... Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 SUBJECT: Leather seats vs. cloth... Anyone out there have any opinions on which is better, (leather seats or cloth)? I'm going to be ordering a Discovery within the next 2 months, and would like some opinions (with your reasoning please). I've never owned leather, is it hot and "sticky"? How's the durability over long times, (10-20 years)? How well does it wear with heavy use? I live in Phoenix Arizona (USA) where it gets from around 17-122 degrees Fahrenheit (-8 to 50 Celsius). ("Yeah, but it's a dry heat!!") Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, *** **** **** "Some men see things as they are and say why? * * * * * I see things as they never were and say why not?" * **** **** *** * * * -Robert Frost From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 14 11:43:31 2024 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 09:30:39 -0700 (MST) From: "P.T. Anderson" Subject: Re: Misc & Defender $$$ To: Land Rover Mailing List In-Reply-To: <9407140321.AA15677@dayton.wright.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 13 Jul 1994, Andrew Steele wrote: > I called phone # previously posted for the Defender 110 w/ 12,000 miles. > The damage is $45,000. I asked the woman (her husband was out showing it) why > they wanted to sell. She said no reason in particular; they bought it as an > investment, and like it enough that they are reconsidering selling it. There has been a Defender advertised in AutoWeek for the last month. It has 13K and they want $38,000(firm). It is in California. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 14 11:42:52 2024 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 12:32:22 EDT Subject: list?? Status: RO Hi, i've stopped getting mail is there something wrong with me , or with the list, i assume its me. so this is sort of a test. Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 14 13:50:41 2024 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 94 11:44:18 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Leather seats vs. cloth... Status: RO In message <199407141603.MAA08889@transfer.stratus.com> writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist > AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 > SUBJECT: Leather seats vs. cloth... > Anyone out there have any opinions on which is better, (leather seats or > cloth)? I'm going to be ordering a Discovery within the next 2 months, > and would like some opinions (with your reasoning please). I've never > owned leather, is it hot and "sticky"? How's the durability over long > times, (10-20 years)? How well does it wear with heavy use? > > I live in Phoenix Arizona (USA) where it gets from around 17-122 degrees > Fahrenheit (-8 to 50 Celsius). ("Yeah, but it's a dry heat!!") > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Opinions? Did someone ask if I had an opinion! I have leather seats in my MGBGT and TR3. I MUCH perfer them to the plastic alternatives for those models. The do not get sticky like plastic does in the heat. BUT you need to treat them well & feed them periodically. If you don't the leather will dry up and crack. It looks and feels bad at that point. I've never much liked cloth. Last one I had with cloth was a '56 Ford w a y back when. It seemed to get dirty easily, stain easily and looked shabby. I had diamond tuck plastic installed to replace it. For a Land Rover I like nagrahyde. It cleans up easily. Water doesn't penitrate it easily (wax the seams) when you hose out the interior. I'm not sure ether cloth or leather would really stand up to hard use. When you are taking your car across a shallow river or deep creek, and the water level in the interior is half way up your seat cushon, you might appriciate leather because it takes longer to soak through than cloth and you may get out of the water before it soaks into the cushons. If your out in the desert or any real dusty location, the dirt will sit on the surface of the leather. Fine dust can penitrate cloth and stay with you for a long time. For a 4X4 that does real work or actually goes off the paved road, I like nagrahyde upholstry and rubber mats. You cann't hurt them with dirt, water, dog slobber, goat or goose droppings, hay can not work its way through the cloth weave, and its easy to care for with a hose and a scrub brush. If you are just into status, there is nothing like leather. And with some care it lasts a while and does not get stcky in heat. But it will not wick away sweat like cloth would. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 14 17:07:59 2024 Date: Thu, 14 Jul 1994 23:46:42 +0100 (MET) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: ohhhh theee heattt To: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <"Macintosh */PRMD=MOT/ADMD=MOT/C=US/"@MHS> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On 11 Jul 1994 /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com wrote: > > does anyone of you vetran rover goers know of any remedy to dissipate the heat > created by the exhaust under my feet. it has been unbearable the last couple of > days since its gotten over 25 degrees. my truck is already topless, althought it > helps it is still way too hot under there. i would also like to know what the > normal opperating temp is in the city??? my truck gets in the middle of the n-h > area and somtimes frightens me, should it get that hot? there doesn't seem to be > a water leak and everything looks good so what could be bothering the cooling > system. thermostat maybe???? one more thing i think the flex hose for the clutch > slave needs replacing. every time i drive in the city and the truck gets hot i > have some serious problems engaging into any gears as in can't get em into 1 2 > and r i was told that maybe the flexhose is expanding due to the heat in the > area??? any help would be appreciated. thx > ben series 69 iia swb Well, over here in Denmark we have had a heatwave the past 2 or 3 days. I drove to work this early evening. There is about 10 km to the air base. Like you I sit on top of the exhaust plus the bulk radiates a lot of heat from the engine. And my uniform trousers are made of wool! I have a 2,25 petrol pulling a 109. Whether it's cold or hot, my temp needle moves quite fast to N and stays there. Even in Copenhagen where there's less than a car length between trafficlights. Have you checked your radiator lately? Try to spray the radiator with a hi-pressure cleaner FROM THE INSIDE AND OUT. Also loosen the drain screw and open for a second or two over a white cloth. See if any sludge comes out. If everything looks fine, have your instruments checked. Good luck Soren Vels velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk '76 109 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 05:10:24 2024 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: leather vs cloth Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 05:01:02 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Mike Dryfoos writes: (Mike please post directly to the list at lro@team.net) I have leather seats in my Range Rover, and previously had cloth seats in my Toyota, and I prefer the leather. It is much easier to clean than cloth and more comfortable generally. I haven't found it excessively sticky. It is colder than cloth on a cold day, until your body heat warms it up. I don't have long enough experience to comment on durability. ---------- | FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov | Anyone out there have any opinions on which is better, (leather seats or | cloth)? ... owned leather, is it hot and "sticky"? How's the durability | over long times, (10-20 years)? How well does it wear with heavy use? | I live in Phoenix Arizona (USA) where it gets from around 17-122 degrees | Fahrenheit (-8 to 50 Celsius). ("Yeah, but it's a dry heat!!") | Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, I've had leather seats in my XR4Ti (it was 6 years old when I got it), and they need to be taken care of, especially in climates where it gets hot, as the leather will dry out and shrink and get harder, at which point, if you're lucky, the seams give out instead of the leather ripping. Maybe you've got a garage, and maybe you'll always park in the shade of a giant cactus, and you'll faithfully clean it with saddle soap and Lexol, and put up with the annoyance of it being slightly oily for a while afterward. The leather itself holds some heat, so maybe you'd better keep a towel 'bout for those hot days when you're wearing shorts. I can't recall finding it to be 'sticky' in the way that vinyl is 'sticky', and I'd certainly would get it again. -- Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 06:05:32 2024 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: leather vs cloth To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:59:23 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407150901.FAA26696@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Jul 15, 94 5:01 am Status: RO Leather,every time.*Much* more comfortable IMO,shrugs off dirt better than cloth,too.I've had a good many cars in the past with leather upholstery,and I never had to do a thing except sit on it!Mind you, Texas this isnt,although I suspect Bill C's interceding with the weather has produced us a nice heat wave(well done Bill!). I wouldnt use saddle soap on it,though.I dont even use it on the saddle.The product I use is Connolly Hide Food.Keeps the leather nice and supple,but isnt tacky like saddle soap.I have a colleague who treats the seats in his Lotus with it about once a year,and the seats are like new.So is the saddle:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 06:21:25 2024 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 07:16:06 EST Encoding: 1995 Text To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net, "TeriAnn Wakeman" Subject: Re[2]: Leather seats vs. cloth... Content-Length: 1951 Status: RO In message <199407141603.MAA08889@transfer.stratus.com> writes: > FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov > Computer Graphics Specialist > AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 > SUBJECT: Leather seats vs. cloth... > Anyone out there have any opinions on which is better, (leather seats or > cloth)? I'm going to be ordering a Discovery within the next 2 months, > and would like some opinions (with your reasoning please). I've never > owned leather, is it hot and "sticky"? How's the durability over long > times, (10-20 years)? How well does it wear with heavy use? > > I live in Phoenix Arizona (USA) where it gets from around 17-122 degrees > Fahrenheit (-8 to 50 Celsius). ("Yeah, but it's a dry heat!!") > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, I'm with TeriAnn regarding leather, I think...I'm also considering the Discovery and have found, with limited seat time, that the leather seats appear to fit slightly differently than the cloth. If I remember the leather seats also come with a leather wrapped steering wheel.. Personally I think that LR missed the boat on the seating on this vehicle. Overall its excellent, but it lacks lumbar and heating elements (not a big issue in Phoenix...) My solution is sheepskin seat covers -- warm in winter, cool in summer. I have a set on my 1988 Volvo, which uses Connolly hides just like the British cars, and the front seats, when I take the covers off to apply CB Hidefood, look brand new. The rear seats, which get light wear, are also in great shape. Overall leather stands up better to stains and abuse than cloth. Smells better too...I doubt you'll be taking the Disco into mud upto your gunwalls (I could be wrong, happened before) so getting creek water sloshed on the upholstery may not be an issue. Leather... Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com If it's got wheels I'll ride it... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 06:19:18 2024 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 07:16:19 EST Encoding: 358 Text To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: No subject given Content-Length: 345 Status: RO Russell writes: > she wants to take Nigel next time (haven't figured out just > how I'll get Nige into a 16' canoe, though). Uh, Russell, take a look at the Camel Trophy clips. Seems the key to floating a Land Rover is *real* *big* pontoons, a tiny motor and no current... Lee "If it's got wheels I'll ride it" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 08:50:19 2024 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 09:41:07 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Seats, etc. Status: RO With regard to the thread on leather vs cloth seats (I couldn't resist that pun!) here's a tip from Chris "the Badger" Laws of Badger Coachworks on seat care. The vinyl is kept in best condition with WD-40! Forget the Armor-All stuff...it looks good for a while but it makes the fabric brittle. It also attacks the stitching. Think about it - vinyl is essentially processed petroleum (with the molecules rearranged and all) and what better to keep it looking good than another petroleum product? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 10:29:35 2024 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 10:11:52 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: baby generators To: John Hong Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199407131315.JAA05306@zork.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re generators and sub zero temps. Does -40 rate as cold enough. I was talking to my friend a retired communications officer from the high Arctic (Resolute Bay) and they had no problems starting brigs and Stratton type engines but only if you use senthetic oil. It cost about $7.00 per quart up here, but it is the only thing to start a small engine on a gold day. The other thing we do is carry a spray bottle of starting fluid. You give a shot into the air breather and they pull away. Don't put too much in however or you will blow the heads off. It works real well in the Rover. In my climate I don't go anywhere with out starting spray, battery jumper cables and the special oil. By the way a battery blanket is probably more important than the block heater but of course we use both up here in winter. I noticed that my diesel has a calrod element from a water heater brazed into the oil pan. Not a bad idea, but I think I mentioned two days ago that the Volkswagon pan heater from a "Bug" is the best way to go. In Winnipeg lots of people use recirculating hot water heaters and they swear by them. They also heat the interior since the warm fluid circulates through the heater core as well as the block. Have a "cool" day Dave VE4PN in sunny Manitoba. At least at this time of the year it is about 75-80 (your numberss) in the day and like you I have a canvas top. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 10:36:40 2024 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 10:25:43 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Leather seats vs. cloth... To: DEBROWN@srp.gov Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199407141603.MAA08889@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi Deb. I live in a climate where it goes from -40 to +40, and if I was ordering new I would use cloth but only if I bought a vehicle that I didn,t intend to take the top of. In hot weather you get a better cooling with the cloth and perhaps a bead seat pad, but in Winnipeg or Selkirk where I live, the dew is heavy in the morning because of the large heat difference and the cloth just gets too wet to use. The leather on the other hand can be wiped off with a cloth and you are able to drive away. My 64 has the black leather seats (deluxe type as they seem to be called) and they have lasted very well. The only problem I have noticed is that the seams rot after 15 years or so from being wet. They are colder in winter, but with a parka on that isn't a real problem. Lastly, cloth in a real off road machine seems a bit like putting lace curtains up for me but perhaps the resale will be better. Whatever you decide, I know you will enjoy your new vehicle. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 13:36:21 2024 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 14:30:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: BMW influence To: Land Rover BBS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 365 Status: RO I'm still waiting on my Discovery, which gives me lots of time to ruminate over serious questions... What's the likelihood that the Buick engine will be replaced by a BMW in the near future? Is this a reasonable concern with profound implications for parts, sercice, reliability, etc., or am I just going nuts from anticipation? Still waiting, Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 13:38:24 2024 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:34:19 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net, twakeman@apple.com Subject: Re: Leather seats vs. cloth... Status: RO To put in my 2 cents worth -- I like them both -- but I think leather wears better than cloth and is better from the dirt standpoint. My 89 RR has leather and so far it still looks brand new inspite of many trips with children and extensive desert use. John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 13:47:25 2024 Date: Fri, 15 Jul 94 11:44:52 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: BMW influence Status: RO No ida! But there are now so many 3.9's around that I don't think you need to worry about parts etc. for a very long tim I hear the new RR due this fall has a 4.5 liter 32 valve engine but I don't know if it's derived from the old one or not. It most likely is, since JE engineering who developed the 3.9 and 4.2 now make a 4.5 based on the se old Buick mill. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 15 17:23:56 2024 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Fri, 15 Jul 1994 17:18:20 -0500 (CDT) Subject: leather vs. cloth To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I got one of the first 5 speed Discoverys--base model with cloth. Initially I Was disappointed not to get leather but the cloth has grown on me with time. For one thing, it suits the interior atmosphere of this car (which was designed in Europe as a "sporty lifestyle vehicle" interior by Conran design) which never had leather available as an option until it had been out for 4 years in Europe. It was designed with cloth in mind and, especially with the rubber floor mats, looks rugged, sporty, and quite stylish. Leather is for the country club and you really can live without it (this being my first car with out), plus in the summer it's much more comfortable since it's cooler. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 16 10:51:39 2024 Date: Sat, 16 Jul 1994 11:44:02 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: Generators Status: RO David John Thanks for the info and tips. Synthetic oil in the generator I can swing -using synthetic in my rover would be a SIGNIFICANT operating expense. :( Well, off to the autoparts store - new fuel line, gear lube and brake fluid. Also, all this hot driving talk has prompted me to finally replace my missing manifold heat shield. putt putt putt John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 17 00:48:52 2024 To: lro@stratus.com Cc: rc@sandelman.ocunix.on.ca Subject: bits and pieces From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 16 Jul 94 21:48:46 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Howdy folks, been real busy for a little while so this is a message to all so check whats in it for you! Discovery Book, forgot to mention, except for the cover all pictures are black and white. Also is 112 pages long and is about 8in by 10 inches in size and hardbacked. Locally here in Ottawa we have a Land Rover dealer again for the first time in 20 years (aprox). Westboro Land Rover have their first vehicles outside and in 2 Discovery and One Range Rover and a ninety. No new signage as yet. The news of this dealership has been local knowledge for a while now but I just thought I'd pass it on. Thanks to all of you who passed comment re my piece in LRO. Shame they hacked it down. Just one note, the pictures are by Andy and myself, just thought I would set that one straight. Below is a verbatim quote from a Land Rover Canada press release that I have just received. It makes for interesting reading. "LIMITED TIME SPECIAL OFFER FOR 1994 DEFENDER 90 (headline) Land Rover is having a nation wide program for 1994 Defender 90s The only V8 powered sport utilityof its kind available in Canada says Alan Manessy MD LRC INC.,We beat the drum loudly when we introduced it last November. After all, this was a highly versatile basic vehicle with all the traditional Land Rover capabilities. It offered buyers the opportunity to tailor the Defender 90 for anything from scientific filed research and extreme off roading to toting surf boards to the beach or mountain bikes to the nearest hills. The company's promotional activities generated considerable initial interest; higher than that shown in the Range Rover over the past few years. But interest did not translate into sales! An informal survey among dealers and potential customers disclosed a problem. Although the Defender 90 had an attractive base price, when the customer started detailing the finishes and changes the way they wanted, buyers found the final price too rich. When we listed Defender 90last fall, the price for a topless two seater with a tonneau cover was 33,800 $ CDN . We are continuing that original list price with the special offer while quantities last or until 31 August 1994. The package for the 1994 Defender 90 will INCLUDE a full soft top kit, alloy wheels and freight. Also in the package is a rear seat and running boards or the choice of equal value accessories. We thought, and still think, the concept of the Defender 90was great, particularly in the versatility it offers each buyer. We did our best to let people know the various options cost extra, but either the message didnt get through or they felt the extras added up to more than they were prepared to pay. With this program, we are keeping our integrity intact while regaining the trust of any of those we may have inadvertantly alienated. Would be purchasers are encoureged to contact their nearest Land Rover dealer. end - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Back to me now, my comments on the 90 are this. Simply put it is a remarkably agile vehicle that most people will never use to its fullest. With the purchase price of an originally priced 90 with all the bits MOST people would want on it, rear seats, full soft top and the rims you could buy two lesser priced sport utility vehicles. the consume just does not want to buy a vehicle like this and pay extra for all those goodies. let me explain here, when my kids go into a store and see a toy they want to buy with their allowance they get a shock when the sales clerk rings it up 'cos the price thay saw it not the price they pay because of the sales taxes involved. I use that analagy because I felt that the vehcile should have been offered in a fully kitted out version only as standard. Ina way that woould have reduced the aggravation for the supply system in that the only options I would have offered would have been a winch and running boards and something that I feel must be in the pipeline ..... a removeable and storeable hard top. This has been sadly lacking and to the types of people who own a 90 with the kind of toys they have they want security that is just not there with the soft top. In addition I feel that the hard top would be a good way to cut down on the noise that every one is wrongly whining about. How many soft top vehciles do you know of are quiet as a whisper inside, give me a break automotive journalists of North America. In Canada the market for many products does not mirror that of the US. We have some weird anomalies that get thrown up and this is one of them I feel. I do know this though, Alan Manessy is a determined and agrressive sales person and he will do all he can to get the 90 moving again and will put into place the kind of changes that the consumer wants, so watch closely on this one. NEWS, We will soon be having ENRIQUE VELEZ from San Juan on the system, he is a Range Rover owner and a financier by proffession. He is currently involved with the setting up of a full finnacial service behind the San Juan dealership that is unfolding as we speak. A BIG thank you to the folks at ROVERS NORTH for sending him my way, please pass that on Jan! Will be away for a few days now, thanks for all your email, will reply on tuesday people. TTFN Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada \s -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 17 03:45:29 2024 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 10:24:59 +0100 (MET) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: BMW influence To: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Fri, 15 Jul 1994, Harry Greenspun wrote: > I'm still waiting on my Discovery, which gives me lots of time to > ruminate over serious questions... > > What's the likelihood that the Buick engine will be replaced by a BMW > in the near future? Is this a reasonable concern with profound > implications for parts, sercice, reliability, etc., or am I just going > nuts from anticipation? > > Still waiting, > Harry Summing up: Land Rover has an excellent parts policy. You can (almost) build an old sIIA from original parts in 1994. At a resonable price. Many v8 LR's is sold up to date, so the model will be supported for many years to come. That is if BMW parts policy is not enforced by the bavarian headquarters. BMW has an excellent profit policy. Quite many bimmers are sold in Europe where the marque seems less prestigious than in US and Japan. But try to get ''ersatzteile'' for 10+ year old models. And at a price that won't force you to sell the car to afford the parts. Perhaps a bimmer power plant will inherit the parts policy from LR. After all this is one major factor causing the success of Land Rover. But of course, with team Muenchen involved we can only hope... Soren velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk '76 109" van. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 17 19:21:38 2024 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 20:15:12 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Shop till You DROP! Status: RO Shop till You DROP! Ah yes, this humble correspondent managed to stop into a few rover shops whilest stuffing his face with fish and chips on the 2nd annual UK pilgrammage tour! I am happy to relate to you my impressions of these sources. Mind you these are just my opinions and your mileage may vary. Birmingham Lavnd Rover Services Ltd aka Bat Fastards 480 College Road, Erdington Birmingham B44 0HL 021 382 7111 Sales, Service, Hire 021 373 7425 Spares 021 384 7412 Fax Ah yes, Bat Fastards! Gotta get the "I Know Bat Fastard" Shirts and stickers! Also a great source for seats and carpet sets manufactured on site. Great prices on body items such as window tops and trim. Stainless Steel Exhausts and the full range of aftermarket Rover parts. Mind you this is a cut rate jobbers (aka super discount) so most of the parts are not LandRover or Bearmach and you get what you pay for. Great prices on Haynes Manuals. If you ever get to this place, accuse any employee you see of being Bat himself. I was told Bat was off fishing when I was there...hmmmm? Write for their catalog! L.R. Fasteners 32 Laburnum Park Bradshaw, Bolton, BL2 3BU (204) 302589 Tony Arnold manages a large stock of fastners, bushes, seals, gaskets, etc for Series I, II and III. He will also special source and supply any Land Rover parts. Write him for a brochure and details of service. Tony is the Rover owners owner. He is a stalwart Forward Control Registry member and a very knowledgeable and helpful rover enthusiast. I met Tony on the first pilgrammage and enjoyed catching up on things this year. If you are doing any major overhauls or rebuilds getting the appropriate kit from Tony may save you much aggravation. Swansey 4x4 St. Katharines Court, Unit 2 Winsh Wen, Llansamlet Swansea 792 792522 This is an official Bearmach distributor and I was very impressed with the friendly and knowledgeable service from this establishment. See the Bearmach ad on the back cover of LRO for lampguards. Try this place for other parts as well. Their bumper sticker is HUGE! C. MacDonald-Smith - LandRover Specialist Fadmoor, N. Yorks Y06 6HY 751 431 202 My favorite vehicle in Clive's personal fleet is his lovely Series II 109 pickup. If you are thinking about bringing a vehicle over from the UK, contact Clive. He's got an ever rotating selection of vehicles - new, used, and ex-ministry. A BSROA member, Clive graciously brought a very rare 107" pickup for static display at this year's National Rally. Merseyside Land Rover Services Bridge Industrial Estates, Speke Hall Road Liverpool L24 9HE 051 486 8636 voice 051 486 5986 fax Billed as a Rover Parts "SUPERSTORE" Merseyside was a browsing delight. I saw parts for all kinds of rovers hanging on the shelves. None of this ask the counterperson bollocks - yessiree bob what you see is what you get at the Merseyside. If you don't see then you ask and they will assist or order it for you. Ask for their fine color catalog, one for Series II-III, the other for Defender. I didn't ask about RangeRover/Discovery. Prices are pretty good. Mantec Services 21 Oldbury Road, Hartshill, Nuneaton Warwickshire CV10 0TD 203 395368 Ian Gough specializes in snorkel breather kits, wading kits and other expedition/overland items. Call for the latest price list. John Craddock 70-76 North St Bridgetwon, Cannock Staffordshire, WS11 3AZ 543 577207 543 572134 (second hand spares) This shop had some relatively obscure accessories. I was happy to pickup some clamp on spouts for my NATO jerry cans - means I can ditch my 2 foot long funnel. The second hand shop is a delight to browse. (kinda greasy though so don't be wearing your Sunday best!) Prices are so so. - FIN - John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 17 19:59:10 2024 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 20:53:37 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: British Car Day at the Museum Of Transportation Status: RO Hey Folks, It was British Car Day at the Museum of Transportation here in Brookline, Massachusetts. Loads of VERY CLEAN and Polished "motors" - say ~ 400. Rolls, Bently, Jaguar, Austin, TR, MG, Lotus, morris, etc, etc and of course about about 10 Rovers. Dark clouds started rolling in about 2 and most of these folks when scurrying home...tee hee...pretty much the only time my rover gets clean is when it rains. I whipped out my new all "smoked" acrylic 2 panel roof panels for the first tine - the front edge is held down to the top of the windscreen with a wood bar with 4 bolts and the rear rests on a swing up bar. It seems to work pretty well but I caught much grief and ribbing from fellow "canvas centric" rover owners. It still remains to be seen how it works at freeway speeds. Anyway, El Presidente Jim Pappas was there with his Too Clean 110 and a 90 from the dealer. The Badger was there with the one and only Chris Laws. Chris has started making a fine "bikini" roof one of which was on Brian Nealy's 88. Jeff Aronson drove down from Vinalhaven island Maine in his 88 with tag "QE I" John Mills in his fine 109 w/Chevy 67, Sid in his 109 w/headers and adorable daughter, Susi "5-Speed" Campbell with daughter Alex "3-Speed" and son Taylor "High Speed" in the only Rangy there. Frank in his canvas'd 88 with 90 rear rubber mat. No Discoverys. Oh yah, one SD3? in great shape. I managed to talk many of them into putting up a yellow and green Bat Fastard Window sticker. (Many jubilant Brazilians honked at me later upon seeing the yellow and green - I'm glad they did not take it the wrong way.) Anyway it is Rover day there this August 28 - this is yacking and show and tell only - no off roading...although there was a nice big dirt pile out back... John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 17 20:14:07 2024 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 21:08:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Dr Drip Status: RO Dear Doctor Drip My rover has been stalling out in the most embarassing places! When this happens, sometimes I can restart it and return to full power by goosing the gas pedal. Other times it takes much much longer. Funny thing is it always idles okay but full power is unobtainable. There does not seem to be a pattern... happens when the engine is cold, sometimes after a bump, sometimes only after a looong drive. I've checked the fuel pickup tubes (yes - two tanks), the sediment bowl, and fuel pump delivery rate. I've replaced the fuel filter - the original style mounted on the firewall. Go figure Doc. Waddaya think? Is it the coil? Is the weber carb a piece of "kaka" suitable only for a lawnmower? Signed gasping for gas in beantown Gentle Reader, Stop gasping my child and peace be with you. You say in the close of your plea for help that you have "un carbaration du weber en la rover." Oh most frustrated one, check the inbody filter element that lies within your weber. When your engine is cold, disconnect your battery and then undo the large brass hex fitting near the fuel hose nipple. Is it clear of shmutz? NOT! Check this first before tearing down the carb. Mind you such an exercise does build character. Doctor Drip Dear Dictor Drop What do you think about them new fangled diff breather hoses as compared to the old style brass one way check valves? Signed Houston Hoser Hey you Hoser! The name is Drip not Drop! And those new style diff hose breathers are THE WAY TO GO! They don't get gummed up, allow you to wade in much deeper water and do a superior job of venting excessing diff pressure. You can order these from Swansea 4x4 (mentioned in "Shop till you drop" in this issue) So much so that a rover I know of with a marginal rear diff seal is loosing much less gear lube after switching over to these new diff breathers.. Da Drip Doc John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 17 20:41:59 2024 Date: Sun, 17 Jul 1994 21:36:17 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: sorry, I'm posting again - now a tech question Status: RO So while I was driving to the British Car Day I drove over a "decent-sized" pot hole and the beast immediately (like 3 seconds later) started backfiring and stumbling. It would not clear with repeated gas pedal "goosing" and by this time I am in a very POSH part of Brookline and the backfires are REALLY LOUD and frequent. So of course I continue to goose the gas and hope no one calls the cops "Officer, I think someone is shooting a gun"...anyway after about 5 minutes it goes away but the top end is still a bit sluggish. It was a somewhat humid and hot day - 87F? Any guesses what could be causing this? It really seems "bump" induced Something like this happened a few weeks ago but it cleared up real quick - say 5 seconds. Fuel system is clear - pickup tubes are clear, both tanks have breathers, fuel filter is reasonably new, weber carb body filter clean (just checked - this was the cause of my previous mystery problem), sight bowl is clear. Fuel pump seems ok but I haven't opened it up. Air cleaner is clear - carb sucking air or via air cleaner hose is about the same. I'm inclined to think this was fuel not electrical but I've been wrong before!!! :) Any chance this was "vapor lock"? I'm thinking about putting armaflex neoprene insulation on my gas lines. Any opinions? I think neoprene can take the heat and shouldn't slowing the rate of heat transfer into the gas lines reduce the incidence of vapor lock? putt BANG BANG putt BANG BANG BANG John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 09:41:32 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 10:15:43 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Eratta Status: RO I know this isn't directly Rover related, but it might interest a few members in the the UK. Some friends just returned from a vacation in Scotland...they actually (and quite by chance) met Prince Charles! Turns out they were all on the Scottish island of Islay where the Prince crashed his jet. It was hushed up and kept from the tabloids, though. Seems that he was told by the tower to "go around" and make another approach, but made a downwind landing anyway, overshot the runway and put the jet into a peat bog. The impact apparently was enough to tear off the main gear and send the nose wheel up into the cockpit, though all escaped injury. The jet's still there where they are building a hangar around it until it can be repaired. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 12:23:08 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 13:14:56 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Pinion Nut Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Anyone out there got a sure-fire way to remove a stubborn nut on the end of a rear diff pinion shaft for a guy *without* air tools and (almost) with a hernia? rd/nige   From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 11:32:45 2024 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Eratta Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 17:30:54 UNDEFINED Status: RO / Eratta >I know this isn't directly Rover related, but it might interest a few >members in the the UK. Some friends just returned from a vacation in >Scotland...they actually (and quite by chance) met Prince Charles! Turns >out they were all on the Scottish island of Islay where the Prince crashed >his jet. It was hushed up and kept from the tabloids, though. Seems that >he was told by the tower to "go around" and make another approach, but made >a downwind landing anyway, overshot the runway and put the jet into a peat >bog. The impact apparently was enough to tear off the main gear and send Lucky for his PR department that he crashed _on the way to_ visit the distillery............. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 11:39:10 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 09:34:37 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Dr Drip Status: RO I had the same problem...it turned out that air was leaking in from the fuel switch. Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com Dear Doctor Drip My rover has been stalling out in the most embarassing places! When this happens, sometimes I can restart it and return to full power by goosing the gas pedal. Other times it takes much much longer. Funny thing is it always idles okay but full power is unobtainable. There does not seem to be a pattern... happens when the engine is cold, sometimes after a bump, sometimes only after a looong drive. I've checked the fuel pickup tubes (yes - two tanks), the sediment bowl, and fuel pump delivery rate. I've replaced the fuel filter - the original style mounted on the firewall. Go figure Doc. Waddaya think? Is it the coil? Is the weber carb a piece of "kaka" suitable only for a lawnmower? Signed gasping for gas in beantown From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 12:44:28 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 13:40:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Subject: jory bell in CA To: lro@stratus.com Cc: Mark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Does anyone have an address for JORY BELL IN CALIFORNIA?? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 10:25:39 2024 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 10:18:48 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Alternative parts list - final Status: RO This is the final draft of the alternative parts list (though it can always be added too). I have put a copy on the RoverWeb - html://whitman.gar.utexas.edu:1500/ Best- Greg For Land Rovers ******************Distributor****************** FYI...the vw distributors work in the 2.25 landie..but the rotation is backwards....mechanical"retard" not advance!....still might get ya' home some night! Steven M Denis MY ENGINE DIED AT NIGHT BECAUSE OF A DISTRIBATOR PROBLEM. COULD NOT FIND A RELPACEMENT FOR MY 1966 109' WAGON WITH A 50'S ENGINE. FINIALLY SOMEONE SUGGESTED GOING TO A JAGUAR SHOP.....GOT A LUCAS DDB117[54417212] DISTRIBUTOR..WORKS BETTER THAN THE ORGINAL. BENJAMIN - "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@CompuServe.COM> actually the distrubutor is used on several english cars such as the austin mini for that fact any a series engine. on another note the four cylinder datsun with electronic distributors are the same diameter and length as the minis and i suppose the landrovers.thus making it a almost identical swap, the only difference is the distributor drive which is held by a pin. a small modification is needed to fit the standard rover drive on but it does work. the datsun distrubutor also has vacumm and centrifical advance, yippee...make sure the distrubutor turns the same direction as your original rover.!!! one more thing the electrical unit is all attached to the distributor and any moron can hook her up... /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@amail.mot.com Series 3 distributors will go into Series 2. **********************Seals*************** Indeed. Case in point: Hub oil seals. Use National/Federal Mogul #410694 American-made, *double lipped* (so's not to ride on the distance piece along the same path as the single-lipped OEM's or "GP's"), with sealing compound already applied to the outside face. About $6 at any bearing shop. While we're mucking about the hubs, lock tab washers: International Harvester #860291R1 have a little "foot" to ride in the groove on the hub.

Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 Date: Fri, 24 Jun 1994 10:37:27 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, hiner@mail.utexas.edu Subject: Re: Alternative Parts X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Transmission oil seals; These are National Oil Seal/Federal Mogul numbers Atlantic Britsh cat. number CR16254 13 output shaft CR19359 12 trans to transfer case CR6143 573 speedo drive plate Wheel hub seal; 410694 330 *************Master Cylinder***************************** David John Place said that a 1970 something brake master cylinder bolted up to the Land Rover and worked fine. The brake cylenders I mentioned are from 72 Hornet, 68 Ambassador or 66 Classics. The work very well on the power assisted brake units in the Land Rover. ***************Bearings******************************* Bearings - readily available - just take the old one with you. ***************Shocks************************************ Shocks - U.S. replacements are Gabriel Gas Ryder Ltd Shocks for your machine. The numbers are G63494 and G63299. The longer ones go on the back. David John Place ************ Diffs ******************************** Rover car diffs from the 1950's P4 range (90's, 100's etc.) drop in. ************ U-joints ******************************** U-joints AEC Brand AEC 521 HD 286 U-joint 2 15/16" across (late) AEC 504 3092 U-joint 2 7/32" across (early) ************ Engines ******************************** From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Southern Engine transplants. To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 28 Jun 1994 18:35:19 +0930 (CST) Cc: lro@stratus.com (Land Rover Owners Group) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Robin writes: > it never ceases to amaze me as to the possibilites of engine transplants > that our southern hemisphere friends can put out! the mind boggles as to > what they must have tried that didnt work! > Cant think of any commonly available powerplant that doesnt have an adaptor plate available from someone, somewhere down under. The ones I can think of off of the top of my head which I have seen at least one of over the years include: Holden (GM) 6cyl and V8 (most popular) Chev V8 Valiant (chrysler) 225ci 6cyl, OZ 215, 245 & 265ci 6cyl, V8 (273,318) Ford 6cyl (x-flow and non-x-flow), V8 (windsor fits really neatly) Rover/Buick V8 and derivatives (inc 4.4L P76 V8) Rover 3L 6cyl Perkins diesels Nissan diesels Diahatsu diesels There must be some that I've forgotten. In addition there used to be an after-market turbo kit for the 2.25 diesel. Once saw a turbo 3.3L Holden six in an 88" , accelerated like a scalded cat, but not much use otherwise. ****************Wipers***************** The windshield wiper motors used on most boats ( can get the name of mine if you want it) work great for the rear wiper set up on the stationwagon.David John Place ****************Alternators************* The best alternator repalacement is the Delcotron which has a built in regulator so you don't have to worry about the condition of the old Land Rover one. They are readily available at any junk yard in the US.David John Place ****************Soft Tops***************** Parts to make soft tops are always available at boat top places. The nylon slides, clamps etc fit regular conduit. To make the front attachment for the windshield, go to a trailer shop and order a piece of aluminum canopy track. It is the kind roap slides into on the side of a trailer. It is better than the original because it is not only waterproof, but winds wont get under it when you are on the highway.David John Place For Range Rovers ***************Hoses******************** For Range Rovers, I know from experience that there is a Gates flexible radiator hose that works for the top hose, but none for the bottom (at least 89 up, with the t junction hose). ***************Misc********************** RR - I noticed the door lock mechanism had a GM stamp on it when I had mine apart recently. RR - The electric seat controls alledgedly come from Mercedes, but I doubt if the prices are much different from them. RR - The air conditioning is a Sandia unit commonly used in many makes in the US, and parts probably a lot cheaper from a/c shops than LR dealers. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 13:38:26 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 14:36:26 EDT From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Hard Reliability Data on DIscovery Status: RO Gentle Readers: Since the Discovery has been available for a while in the UK (and elsewhere), has anyone come across any hard data on its reliability? I'm thinking of something like Consumer Reports frequency of repair information. (I've heard that Which is the UK equivalent of Consumer Reports, but if there's any library in Atlanta that subscribes, I haven't found it.) I'd be happy to hear about personal experiences and subjective information, but hard data (objective, unbiased, and of statistical significance) would be best. Thanks in advance, _____________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom (404-514-3522) email: sat@eng.tridom.com, attmail!tridom!sat From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 14:42:36 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 15:09:24 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Vanishing fuel filter Status: RO Despite my attempts at a permanent gas tank when fitting a new one five years ago (etched, lined with epoxy on the inside; 3 coats of Rustoleum, 2 layers of undercoating on the outside), it started leaking the other day. Rust had penetrated one of the welded lap joints. Drained the tank and found the inside to be clean as a whistle, no sludge/debris/etc., but the pickup tube was missing its filter gauze! I mean *totally* gone as if dipped in acid! The tube itself was perfectly clean...just no remnants of the filter, nor was there any trace of it in the tank. I know that fuels are much more "aggressive" these days...but to the point of consuming metal/bronze?!? What addatives are responsible? I do add ReLead to each tank, so if no one else has experienced this problem, maybe that compound is the culprit. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 17:17:09 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 16:06:03 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Jory Bell Status: RO No and I thought I would hear from him first, I owe him some dollars for a taillight and gas cap hasp. So Jory if you are reading the list let everybody know your address and I will send you some money. Roy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 14:42:36 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 15:09:24 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Vanishing fuel filter Status: RO Despite my attempts at a permanent gas tank when fitting a new one five years ago (etched, lined with epoxy on the inside; 3 coats of Rustoleum, 2 layers of undercoating on the outside), it started leaking the other day. Rust had penetrated one of the welded lap joints. Drained the tank and found the inside to be clean as a whistle, no sludge/debris/etc., but the pickup tube was missing its filter gauze! I mean *totally* gone as if dipped in acid! The tube itself was perfectly clean...just no remnants of the filter, nor was there any trace of it in the tank. I know that fuels are much more "aggressive" these days...but to the point of consuming metal/bronze?!? What addatives are responsible? I do add ReLead to each tank, so if no one else has experienced this problem, maybe that compound is the culprit. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 16:42:05 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 14:36:49 MST From: DEBROWN@srp.gov To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, lro@team.net Subject: New car purchase decisions... Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:8800 then 6486 SUBJECT: New car purchase decisions... Any "wisdom" out there on dealer additions to a new vehicle purchase? By this I mean the "Desert protection package" which supposedly protects the dash and interior from cracking or fading for 5 years) or a "Clear coat" process to protect the paint? Are these services worthwhile? A rip off? can I do the same thing by coating the dash with Armorall and scotchguarding the upholstery??? Any experience or knowledge about such things would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, *** **** **** "Some men see things as they are and say why? * * * * * I see things as they never were and say why not?" * **** **** *** * * * -Robert Frost From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 17:17:09 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 94 16:06:03 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Jory Bell Status: RO No and I thought I would hear from him first, I owe him some dollars for a taillight and gas cap hasp. So Jory if you are reading the list let everybody know your address and I will send you some money. Roy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 20:29:16 2024 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 20:20:20 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Vanishing fuel filter To: MR ALEXANDER P GRICE Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00984369.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re vanishing fuel filter. For what it is worth, I attended a seminar on motor boat engine rebuilding and the Merc. fellow said that they suggested only Shell Gold, because the other gas types were pitting the metal in the engine. It sounds like something in unleaded gas really is as you say "aggressive". Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 18 23:01:11 2024 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Hard Reliability Data on DIscovery To: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 21:55:45 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407181836.AA07897@eng.tridom.com> from "Stephen Thomas" at Jul 18, 94 02:36:26 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 598 Status: RO Stephen Thomas asks about reliability data (consumer info) on the Disco. Here is what turns up in an online consumer database: The 1994 Disco is reviewed in: Petersen's 4-Wheel & Off-Road May 1994 p. 86-89, 92 The 1990 Disco is reviewed in: Off-Road Oct. 1990 p. 26 Car & Driver Apr. 1990 p. 30-31 Popular Science Feb. 1990 p. 33 The one-line abstracts are unequivocally favorable, like "quite possibly the best 4WD in the world". T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 03:16:24 2024 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Hard Reliability Data on DIscovery Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 09:08:11 UNDEFINED Status: RO >Gentle Readers: >Since the Discovery has been available for a while in the UK >(and elsewhere), has anyone come across any hard data on its >reliability? I'm thinking of something like Consumer Reports >frequency of repair information. (I've heard that Which is the >UK equivalent of Consumer Reports, but if there's any library >in Atlanta that subscribes, I haven't found it.) >I'd be happy to hear about personal experiences and subjective >information, but hard data (objective, unbiased, and of statistical >significance) would be best. No numbers, but the latest AA mag shows the Disco as the 3rd most commonly stolen vehicle to break for parts........ Not a good omen. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 00:18:58 2024 From: Craig Murray Subject: 2.25 in Series 1's To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 15:08:50 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi all fellow Rover nuts, I was wondering, if any of you out there in Roverland had any experianceses with putting 2.25's into a series 1. I have just about finished putting my 2.25 diesel into my 86". But when I was putting the block in, I noticed that I could not use the wedge that goes between the chassie and the engine mount (rubber) on the distributor pump side without drilling the chassie, so I used one of a six cylinder (Rover of course), and now to my dismay, when I nearly have my brick on the road after over six months, I find out that I only have about 2mm clearance between the bell housing and the crossmember!!!!! I was looking through the parts manual last night, and was wondering if the engine mount bracket off a 2 litre petrol or diesel fit, I know that if the bracket off the 2l diesel bolts onto the block it should lift it about an inch. Also, there is no room in the engine bay to put an air cleaner, as the one of a 2l will strangle the motor, and have had recomended to me the air cleaner of a Furgie 240 tractor, has any-one had any experiance with these, my only other option is to put a donaldson air cleaner on the wing, but I do not wish to do so as I think it would be to easy for my to damage it, and apart from the fact that they look stupid! where as I have been told that I will be able to tuck the furgie air cleaner under the wing, and can run a snorkel off it. Any opions of the above menchioned stuff (If it makes sense to you!) will be eargerly awaited for!!!!!!!!! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 desiel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 06:14:23 2024 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 19 Jul 94 23:04:04 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Vanishing fuel filter Content-Type: Text Status: RO Sandy, If it makes you feel any better, the screen on Vince's pickup tube had also disintigrated. It appeared to have been fastened on by some sort of tape. There was a thin strand of tape left hanging from the side of the tube attached to the remains of the screen. I think the tape is what disintigrates and the screen gets lost when draining the tank. Just a thought. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 11:00:13 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 11:38:13 -0400 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: sim1@cornell.edu (Steve MARGOLIS) Subject: Re: New car purchase decisions... Status: RO I think this is how car dealers send their kids to college and finance their retirements. It would be amazing if you even had a choice. Most dealers seem to do these things to new vehicles while they are still on the delivery trucks. Did you ever notice that the first rust that develops (on a car in the salt belt, at least) is where they drill the holes in the top of the rocker panel to spray the liquid gold inside? I believe I read in Consumer Reports a while back that the paint protector applied by the dealers for a couple of hundred dollars is no better than applying semi-annual coats of Rain Dance or other good wax. Of course, Consumer Reports has also said that Peugeot Turbo Diesels were used cars to avoid. Mine had 264000 miles on it when it got rear-ended, and I reached 275000 before rust damage did it in. :-( And I will find a Land Rover to pop that engine into. :-) >FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov >SUBJECT: New car purchase decisions... >Any "wisdom" out there on dealer additions to a new vehicle purchase? By >this I mean the "Desert protection package" which supposedly protects >the dash and interior from cracking or fading for 5 years) or a "Clear >coat" process to protect the paint? Are these services worthwhile? A rip >off? can I do the same thing by coating the dash with Armorall and >scotchguarding the upholstery??? <--------------------------------------------------------------> | Steve Margolis E-mail: sim1@cornell.edu | | Distributed Technologies Technical Support | | Cornell University Vox: (607) 255-1477 | | Ithaca is Gorges, NY Fax: (607) 254-5222 | | 14853-2601 | <--------------------------------------------------------------> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 13:59:15 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 14:35:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Parker Subject: Re: British Car Day at the Museum Of Transportation To: John Hong Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199407180053.UAA20114@zork.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Sun, 17 Jul 1994, John Hong wrote: > Anyway it is Rover day there this August 28 - this is yacking and show and > tell only - no off roading...although there was a nice big dirt pile out back... Anyone know of any New England off-road events scheduled for this summer (either BSROA or non-BSROA)? Thanks. -- Randy Parker From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 14:02:31 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 14:46:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Randy Parker Subject: Re: Hard Reliability Data on DIscovery To: Stephen Thomas Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407181836.AA07897@eng.tridom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Mon, 18 Jul 1994, Stephen Thomas wrote: > I'd be happy to hear about personal experiences and subjective > information, but hard data (objective, unbiased, and of statistical > significance) would be best. No hard data, sorry. When I was over in the UK earlier this year, I got a number of reviews of the new Discovery in the unbiased :-) UK car press. They were unanimously favorable and none mentioned any reliability issues to date. Of the handful of Disco owners I know of or have spoken to (including mine), none report any immediate problems with the new US imports, and all are also unanimously pleased. (Non-scientific survey!) I'd be interested in what you find. -- Randy Parker From ccray Fri Jul 19 15:53:18 2024 Subject: LR 88 wheel refinishing options To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 124 15:53:18 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1089 Status: RO I am in the process of stripping the nato green paint and sandblasting my qty=5 16 inch rims that I got in used from the UK. I will get it down to bare metal. One down, 4 more to go. Need some feedback on refinishing -- should I: -- paint 'em with 2-part epoxy primer and topcoat. This makes a tough finish -- I have done it before. The final color would be limestone white. -- galvanize 'em. Did any LR ever have galvanized rims. Someone on the net mentioned earlier that he had done it -- let me know what the pros and cons are. For those who feel authenticity is important, would this violate that code? For me, the cost would be about the same. $0.30 per pound for the galvanizing, but the 2-part paint is expensive too. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 15:30:16 2024 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 15:08:23 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Well not actually a Rover question but . . . . Status: RO Wet clutch vs. dry clutch - My friend has a motorcycle with a wet clutch and he was saying that they are virtually indestructible and asked me why they don't use them in cars? I have know idea. Can anybody tell me. Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 16:37:42 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 17:20:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Pinion Nut To: "Russell G. Dushin" Cc: landrovers In-Reply-To: <199407181714.NAA08887@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO what is the problem ol' buddy? can't ya just hold the yoke with yer' teeth and turn the nut with yer pinkie? if holding the yoke is thge problem,OTC makes a special bar that slips over the yolk and gives you leveage ....if the nut is just too tight....(how did it get that way...hummmmmm?) you can use a hammer and chislel to *whack* it around...it'll end up looking like a beaver had at it and you will have to replace it,but it'll be layin' in your palm in no time... steve... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 17:24:33 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 18:08:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Well not actually a Rover question but . . . . To: Greg Hiner Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407192007.PAA27999@smtp.utexas.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO If you are running a 2.25 engine you should have a wet clutch by now! :-) OK.....(you folks have to stop asking things that I feel I have to answer...) Donorcycles are not cars....suprized?....there are several differences besides the bikes lack of wheels...(before I go on...A BMW R60/5 that I *love* ...OK?...dry clutch and all) a meteorcycle is all for performance...so a small diameter flywheel is used due to its low moment of inertia....(it accelerates faster)the lack of room on a bike is a secondary concideration...can you picture a 250cc bike with a 12 inch flywheel and clutch? the small flywheel also doesn't supply an unwanted gyroscopic effect on the whole rig as you wind up through the gears...a third reason....so,the flywheel size dictates the maximum diameter of the clutch...However the chance of a 5 inch,single plate clutch being enough to hold back a DOHC 16 valve 1100cc is slim....zinnnnnngggg*POW*....putt.... so enter the multi-plate clutch! TA-DA! This little gem has many many friction plates to grip and grab...they are stacked one on top of the other,with alternate plates being drive and driven...ok with this? Sooo everything is cool right?.......WRONG! On the land rover the heat generated by the friction of the clutch is absorbed and disapated by the big heavy cluch and flywheel...the heat only has to travel away from the friction surface and its on its way to to the"outside"and the cold cruel world. Suffer the poor multi-disc..the heat generated on one side is disipated through the disc and...OOOOOOPS!!!.meets the heat generated on the back side of the disc!........Those tricky engineers(*love* those striped suits and hats fellas) looked around for something to pour over the clutch to cool it and found....OIL! (Yea! whooopi! we're saved!) soooo they bury the clutch in the transmission and fill the whole thing with oil....there are other reasons,such as cushioning of the driveline shock when "power shifting" (Yes,*YOU*!) and such, but that should give you the general idea....none of the weight and size things pertain to the rover(they*want* a heavy flywheel...) so no wet clutch in the rover.... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU Fri Jul 19 17:10:59 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 18:12:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: LR 88 wheel refinishing options To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Cc: Land-Rover-Owners FORUM In-Reply-To: <12407192053.AA19204@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO no"cons"to galvinizing except the "original" appearance.... one could paint over the zinc if it was washed with a etching compound first.. steve.... all repainted wheels seem to rust where the rim and hub come togetather.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 00:51:48 2024 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Dwarves... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 13:58:26 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO There be a pack of mad little dwarves hiding inside my poor underworked 2.25l of late. When I go a bit faster than 30-35mph there arises such a loud clatter... :-( Sounds like the big green beastie from the sleazy swamp has spun a bearing, three months after they were all changed with the rings. (Did I check the crank you ask? Of course not I respond... 'tis that I have just been procrastinating on rebuilding the original engine that this is slightly annoying.) Oh well, the "little earth pig" is about a week away from heading for a safety, so efforts will be made there before the 109 gets some attention. Rgds, Dixon (Guess this is what you get when you put modern technology too close to those advanced Lucas electrics. 'twas picking up a microvax 2 (16mb memory, 500mb disk, TK50's TA-90's, VMS 4.2 installed, 5.1 in a box, ultrix in a box, complete manuals and licenses, the cost, free... :*). Gotta love obsolescence... Filled the 109 completely, along wih part of an Aerostar...) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 20:23:42 2024 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Well not actually a Rover question but . . . . To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) (Greg Hiner) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 21:08:42 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407192007.PAA27999@smtp.utexas.edu>; from "Greg Hiner" at Jul 19, 94 3:08 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Wet clutch vs. dry clutch - > > My friend has a motorcycle with a wet clutch and he was saying that they > are virtually indestructible and asked me why they don't use them in cars? > I have know idea. Can anybody tell me. > > Best- > > Greg > > > Ah, maybe 'cause they contain multiple friction/pressure plates? Ask him why race-bikes most often contain dry clutches (also of the multiple plate variety....boy are they loud when disengaged)! As for indestructible, I've seen 'em go, go, gone before. Indestructible is a relative term, I guess. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 21:17:22 2024 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Pinion Nut To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 22:03:13 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven M Denis" at Jul 19, 94 5:20 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > what is the problem ol' buddy? can't ya just hold the yoke with yer' > teeth and turn the nut with yer pinkie? > if holding the yoke is thge problem,OTC makes a special bar that slips > over the yolk and gives you leveage ....if the nut is just too > tight....(how did it get that way...hummmmmm?) you can use a hammer and > chislel to *whack* it around...it'll end up looking like a beaver had at > it and you will have to replace it,but it'll be layin' in your palm in no > time... > > steve... > Ok, Ok, I am getting some flack, but surely I of all people deserve it. The saga of my rear end (the diff, that is) began long ago. Recall that way back in april Nigel lost his second half shaft in six months (and Nige ain't no smoke-blowin' torquey deezzyl either)....so began the "I gotta fix dis clutch judder problem", and with your help, and hers, and his, and lotsa Marcus' it got fixed up good (and I cannot even detect- as if I should be able to-the slightest bit of imbalance to my flywheel resulting from the unfortunate loss of both locator studs....). In the course of that operation I came across a deal I just could not refuse- a brand new diff for $300 (RN usual cost is 4X that amount) to replace the aged one that got Nigel through the first 34 years of his life. I *thought* at that time that the LOUD rumblings I oftimes heard coming from beneath my rear bed under off-load (in between accelerating and decelerating, or while coasting in neutral or with the clutch in) conditions was due to warn bearings in the rear. (I now suspect this noise comes from a warn output shaft bearing on me transfer case 'cause it is still there with the new diff.) So, we puts the clutch, tranny, seatbox, floors, new rear diff, halfshafts, etc all back together, top it all off with oils, and drives to town for pizza and brewskis. All seems fine (except for the persistant rumbling....) so me and danige goes to work the next day. On my way in I realize I have lost the abilty to see out the rear window (has nothing at all to do with the pizza and beer the night before).....just gunk. A glance underneath reveals the culprit-the rear diff I got came off a model with a self lubricating chassis. So, a few daze later the rear diff comes out again, a brand new gasket is installed (I had re-used the six-month-old one), this time with lotsa permatex, top off with oil, clean the rear windshield, and go for a spin.....no dice, still leaking like a sieve, although the exact location of the leak remains somewhat of a mystery (the six-month old gasket was dry as a bone, incidentally, so I am sure the leak didn't come from the junction of the diff and the axle casing). ....surely it must be the seal. A call to RN got me lotsa apologies (good folks, nothing against them here) and collectively we conclude that in the twenty some odd years or more of storeage the seal must have dried out/cracked/killed by ground level ozone, etc. They sends me a new seal and .......... I struggle to get the damned pinion nut off. The problem, you see, is one of adequate space. I can get plenty-'o- big breaker bar on there, but only have so far to turn it before running into my leafspring (or the rear bed). There is a certain amount of "slack" (not really free play slack, but movement) in the system that one has to traverse through before the brakes (operated by the resting foot of a cooperative lil' lady who's up above reading a book....she is soo good to me) kick in. I also tried an impact driver with "the persuader" but to no avail. Have not tried heat yet (thanks Dave4EPEN) but may shortly. A tool to hold the yoke, if it does in fact exist, would be most helpful. But, bear in mind that nothing is corroded together here-this is a brand new leaking f-ing rear differential (that I probably didn't need anyway, dammit). What I was hoping for was some advice comparable to the method we all now use to get the front pulley nut off........something along the lines of bracing an adequate spanner/socket w/breaker bar up against the leafspring and either rolling or towing (this '39 Ford 9N loves this kind of stuff!) it. Then again, this method could cost me yet another half shaft, or maybe even this brand new rear diff......maybe I should just find someone with air tools. ugh, gear oil gets expensive (good thing I ain't runnin' synthetics), and I'm not making friends with any of my motorcylcin' buddies- rd/that leaking nige thang. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 21:23:34 2024 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Furgy bits To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au (Craig Murray) Date: Tue, 19 Jul 94 22:13:12 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407190508.AA17835@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au>; from "Craig Murray" at Jul 19, 94 3:08 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Snip, snip > about an inch. Also, there is no room in the engine bay to put an air cleaner, > as the one of a 2l will strangle the motor, and have had recomended to me > the air cleaner of a Furgie 240 tractor, has any-one had any experiance with > these, my only other option is to put a donaldson air cleaner on the wing, but > I do not wish to do so as I think it would be to easy for my to damage it, > and apart from the fact that they look stupid! where as I have been told that > I will be able to tuck the furgie air cleaner under the wing, and can run a > snorkel off it. Dunno, but.......the air cleaner on our Furgeson TO30 (I suspect this is smaller than a newer 240 is) is a tad on the small side. It's is, however, very similar to a LR air cleaner.....shapewise and it's a wire mesh/oil soaked type. Also has a "port" up top that should easily be adaptable to a snorkel. I was just realizing the other day how many bits on the Furgy look like they'd bolt right up to the rover (yet another source for distributors, perhaps??), and used my LR handcrank to turn the baby over during a tune-up. Wonder what those big tyres would look like on Nigel............. rd/nige/mid fifties TO30. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 22:02:24 2024 Date: 19 Jul 94 22:46:54 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: land-rover-owner-list Subject: Re: Pinion Nut Status: RO >What I was hoping for was some advice comparable to the method we >all now use to get the front pulley nut off........something along >the lines of bracing an adequate spanner/socket w/breaker bar up >against the leafspring and either rolling or towing (this '39 Ford >9N loves this kind of stuff!) it. Then again, this method could >cost me yet another half shaft, or maybe even this brand new rear >diff......maybe I should just find someone with air tools. That's exactly how we do it when we're "out of Africa" and have neither the tools nor time for hanky-panky. If your rear diff is a Salisbury - *slam it* ! More likely the spanner will crack up. With the regular rear axle I'd advise caution. Tow (or drive) into the spanner-braced-against-the-leaf spring slowly, and just when you feel the load coming on, press the clutch and let car roll into it by its own weight. On negativ result, go for a bit more speed next time. If you've reached a point where the cars jerks to a halt so hard that you would consider putting on the seat belt and it _still_ won't come off, then stop there, or *something* will give... Stefan LROC of Hessen From umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Fri Jul 19 22:03:08 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 22:00:55 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: LR 88 wheel refinishing options To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Cc: Land-Rover-Owners FORUM In-Reply-To: <12407192053.AA19204@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I am just doing a set of 15" wheels. I have found that the same paint you use on the top (limstone) is fine, but the trick is to go over the metal first with an acid wash. Navel Jelly etc. is a good substitute. It makes the bond to the metal so much better that the paint just doesn't come off. It is cheaper than two part epoxy and last as long. One thing you want to watch when sand blasting the wheels is that you get some kind of paint or undercoat on them "fast" because I have found that they start to rust before your eyes. We are at our peak temps in Canada and humidity is high. I sandblasted the rims yesterday evening and today they showed signs of rust so I gave them a spray with primer. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:38 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:02 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: PC7170@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU, land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 Status: RO I have one of each (sIII 88" and sII 109"), and I like the 109" much better. The series II is more utilitarian and seems easier to work with. The series III has the guages by the steering wheel, but having them in the center is not hard to get used to. I definitely like the twist knobs for the vents over the levers in the series III, but I could live without the funky sII wiper motors. 88 vs 109 depends on what you're gonna do with it. I like the 109" because I can take it camping and it basically functions as an RV. I've got a bed and cabinets that go in the back. I don't go off-highway all that much, though. It's also great for hauling stuff around. I think the 88"'s are better off-road, though, because they're shorter. So if you're primary use is as an off-highway vehicle, that may be the way to go. (Check with the experts here, though.) Either way, they're great. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:53 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:13 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: twakeman@apple.com, sinasohn@crl.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO You mean, like, your Land Rovers work? I didn't think there were any like that... (Sorry, couldn't resist) San Gregorio sounds fine, except I'm not sure where it is... Is that south on hwy 1? I was actually kinda thinking of the Edinburgh Castle in the city -- real fish and chips, etc. (They've even got one of those telephone poles on the wall if we're feeling macho -- and great dart boards if we're not stupid. ) P.S. TeriAnn - did I perchance meet you once up at Scotty's? Do you have one of those MG station wagon type things? If so, howdy again! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:32 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:19 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM, lro@stratus.com, sinasohn@crl.com, brabyn@skivs.ski.org Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO If we had it in the North Eastern east bay, perhaps we could get the Sacto/Davis folks down for the shingding? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:03:19 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:23 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: 100043.2400@CompuServe.COM, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover Names Status: RO > If the Chevy was 'Seet Pea', how about calling the 109 "Ol' Sour-Dough" ? That's a good idea! I'll run pass the girlfriend and all and see what the consensus is. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 00:44:34 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:26 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing Status: RO > Sure, switch to a TDi ! (Oh no, there goes John Hong again...) > > Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> > LROC of Hessen Can you put a TDi in a sII? I was actually hoping for some tips that I could *afford*. But that's not a bad idea! I'm hoping to (someday) make a trip from the top of Europe to the bottom of Africa and back, and that might be a lot more practical that the chevy straight-6 conversion I was considering. Diesel, as I understand it, is pretty common across Europe... How common is it in Africa? Especially in the less populated areas? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:38 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:32 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, sinasohn@crl.com Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO It's true that in many cases (widespread solar panel use, damming free flowing rivers, etc.) Electric power is just as bad as petrol, but here, especially in the San Francisco bay area, we get a lot of power from hydroelectric plants (a Damn in Yosemite National Park that should never have been built; it destroyed a wonderful valley at the beginning of this century. Unfortunately, there's nothing that can be done -- destroying the damn and draining the resevoir would only leave an ugly hole in the ground) and from wind power (Windmills). As for power/speed, I've seen electric sports cars with top speeds of 60+, which is as good as most Rovers. There's a lot of electric research going on in this area. There's even a race car powered only by solar panels. Horses aren't a viable option here in The City, but bicycles are. Unfortunately, I don't feel comfortable carrying a $4k laptop computer on a bike... Getting hit by a car wouldn't bother me but it might damage the computer. Mostly, I take the bus, but as I'm now working outside the city proper, a 10 minute drive by car takes anywhere from 30 minutes (in theory) to 2 hours +. So as much as I don't like the idea of adding to local pollution and traffic congestion, driving is sure looking better (and cheaper) every day. (BTW, I'm not worried about the planet itself -- the earth can take care of itself no matter what we do to it. I'm just concerned with my own local environment. I prefer clear air, and don't really want to have to listen to warnings every morning that today breathing may be hazardous to my health.) So anyway, some of these fuel-saving devices may be worth it to me too. I think I understand what the pre-heater is for (warm up the engine so when you start it, it's like it's been running -- less energy needed to get the thing moving, etc.), but what does the electric fan do? How is that different from the belt/engine driven standard fan? How is it mounted? Pardon my ignorance... I don't know much about cars and such. (My dad was an accountant and I know all about bookkeeping and opera and antiques and such.) I'm trying to learn, though. I'm not as worried for the longer trips -- I don't do them that often. (Not as often as I'd like, anyway.) It's the day to day commuting that I'm thinking of (20 miles round trip.) Perhaps a pre-heater would be a good idea. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:52 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:47 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Generator to alternator upgrade Status: RO Keep in mind that no car (even brand spanking new ones) never breaks down. And if you compare the cost of maintaining an existing vehicle versus the cost of a new vehicle, the Land Rover suddenly looks *real* cheap. Especially if you do your own repairs. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:51 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:53 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sides and top... Status: RO Spent a fair amount of the weekend at Scotty's with wrench in hand. Got the seat box out of my 109" so Scotty can work on the Transmission. Also got all the roof bolts out so we can swap the roof. Next step is take the sides on and re-put them on because I don't think I did it right last time. My question is, what do y'all put between the top of the truck bed and the bottom of the sides (if anything)? I was using pipe insulation, but that seems far too thick to my non-mechanical eyes. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:47 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:56 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA, hugh@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz Subject: Re: Generator to alternator upgrade Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I too have a marine alternator in my 109" after the generator died, and the thing I like is it is a standard, readily available part. If it dies, I can get another one at Grand Auto or Napa or wherever and be on my way. Also, the fact that it charges at idle is nice. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:30:02 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:49:02 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: vance@xnet.ssl.Berkeley.Edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: British car meet in Hayward, California Status: RO I expect I'll be there. I won't have a Rover with me (They're both at Scotty's right now), but I'll most likely make it. Look for a weird looking guy in shorts and sandals and a beard & moustache. Probably becoming in a Mazda 323 lic. I TCH TAP. (Or by bart if I can't talk Rachel into going. ) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:30:02 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:49:06 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: ad158@dayton.wright.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Defender = Investment? Status: RO Okay, so they're selling the Defender 110 for $45K, and they bought it as an investment... How much did they originally sell for, that they could make a serious profit? (They must have paid cash, or the interest would kill any profit they might make.) Weird! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 19 23:02:46 2024 Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:49:09 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: DEBROWN@srp.gov, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Leather seats vs. cloth... Status: RO I like leather, but as I have a rule of not wearing long pants on weekends, I think I might stick to it. I suspect it might also be hotter when you get in the car. On the other hand, it's probably easier to clean. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 00:08:45 2024 From: Spenny@aol.com Sender: "Spenny" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 00:55:00 EDT Subject: Bug eyed Rovers Status: RO What can anybody tell me about bug eyes? I hava a 1969 SWB IIA with headlights in the rad. grille & side wings, i know 96 was the first year rover moved the headlights to the side wings for the NADA But someone told me that early in the model year rover shipped rovers with 2 sets of headlights ostensibly to use up left-over parts, but this doesn't make sense because i dont think that non export rovers had headlights in the side wings until 71. so did someone just add the second set of lights or what? 2 what ever happend to the rover name list someone was compiling? Spenny Spencer K. C. Norcross Spenny@aol.com Haverhill, Mass. USA ===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---===---=== 1969 IIA SWB Bugeye - The Wayback Machine Land Rovers on the Information Superhighway! What will they think of next! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 00:51:42 2024 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 07:44:19 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Sides and top... Priority: normal Status: RO > My question is, what do y'all put between the top of the truck bed and the > bottom of the sides (if anything)? I was using pipe insulation, but that > seems far too thick to my non-mechanical eyes. Any suggestions? See if you can find a used heavy duty rubber sealing ring (contains the air valve) for a light truck wheel rim. (This is the "sortta" inner tube arrangement that fits inside the rim before you put the tyre on.) The rubber used is pretty bullet-proof. Take a pair of sharp cutters and snip off lengths from the circumference, about 1" wide. Cut to fit and then stick it to the base of your Landies' sides with Pliobond or similar flexible "sticks anything" glue. Inexpensive, easy and lasts for decades..... Cheers, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 01:02:08 2024 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 07:56:20 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Oil Burning --> Diesel in Africa Priority: normal Status: RO > > Can you put a TDi in a sII? I was actually hoping for some tips that > I could *afford*. But that's not a bad idea! I'm hoping to (someday) > make a trip from the top of Europe to the bottom of Africa and back, and > that might be a lot more practical that the chevy straight-6 conversion I > was considering. > > Diesel, as I understand it, is pretty common across Europe... How common > is it in Africa? Especially in the less populated areas? In line with the decline in Land-Rover market share over the past +15 years, I imagine the numbers of LR diesels out here have also dropped -- limited dealers, spare parts infrastructure, etc. Surviving Landies will often have been re-engined -- typically with a non-Landie petrol engine (more available and cheaper to buy and run spares-wise, etc.) Diesel fuel is widely available "off the beaten track" however. Don't expect a great deal of spares and technical backup for a LR turbo diesel -- in South Africa (perhaps one of the more "advanced" LR regions: they are assembled here after all! -- there are perhaps no more than a dozen service centers that could help in case of a problem). Dropping in (say) a Toyota, Nissan or Isuzu light truck diesel could however stack the odds heavily in yr favour -- the basic problem is that LR spares and service infrastructures are not what they were (say) 20-15 yrs ago..... Cheers, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 01:04:47 2024 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 07:59:50 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Bug eyed Rovers Priority: normal Status: RO > What can anybody tell me about bug eyes? I hava a 1969 SWB IIA > with headlights in the rad. grille & side wings, i know 96 was the first year > rover moved the headlights to the side wings for the NADA > But someone told me that early in the model year rover shipped rovers with > 2 sets of headlights ostensibly to use up left-over parts, but this doesn't > make sense because i dont think that non export rovers had headlights in > the side wings until 71. so did someone just add the second set of lights or > what? Strikes me that a PO has simply twirled a few spanners and cobbled up a front-end using both S2 and S3 components -- personally I've seen quite a few of these "conversions" down the years: they look okay IMO (:D)!! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 05:44:52 2024 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 11:36:18 UNDEFINED Status: RO >88 vs 109 depends on what you're gonna do with it. I like the 109" because >I can take it camping and it basically functions as an RV. I've got a bed >and cabinets that go in the back. I don't go off-highway all that much, >though. It's also great for hauling stuff around. >I think the 88"'s are better off-road, though, because they're shorter. So >if you're primary use is as an off-highway vehicle, that may be the way to >go. (Check with the experts here, though.) 109s ahave teice the laodspace and are easier to sleep in, and generally more use as a stand-alone vehicle. But teh 88 is more nimble offroad; and makes a far better towing platform - which is why all the farmers go for em. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 00:59:20 2024 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Furgy bits To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 15:46:01 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > Snip, snip > > > about an inch. Also, there is no room in the engine bay to put an air cleaner, > > as the one of a 2l will strangle the motor, and have had recomended to me > > the air cleaner of a Furgie 240 tractor, has any-one had any experiance with > > these, my only other option is to put a donaldson air cleaner on the wing, but > > I do not wish to do so as I think it would be to easy for my to damage it, > > and apart from the fact that they look stupid! where as I have been told that > > I will be able to tuck the furgie air cleaner under the wing, and can run a > > snorkel off it. > > > Dunno, but.......the air cleaner on our Furgeson TO30 (I suspect this is smaller > than a newer 240 is) is a tad on the small side. It's is, however, very similar > to a LR air cleaner.....shapewise and it's a wire mesh/oil soaked type. Also has > a "port" up top that should easily be adaptable to a snorkel. I was just realizing > the other day how many bits on the Furgy look like they'd bolt right up to the > rover (yet another source for distributors, perhaps??), and used my LR handcrank > to turn the baby over during a tune-up. > > Wonder what those big tyres would look like on Nigel............. > What are the dimentions for this air cleaner, the one I was looking at was too large, it was 14" long and 7" in diameter, which is way to big. And about putting the tractor tyres on nigel, haven't you seen the Forest Rover, the Canadian forestry service had a couple, but they would be emensly under powered, and exreamly easy to do a diff or and axle. (Serious!!) ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 08:26:55 2024 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Defender = Investment? To: sinasohn@crl.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 6:13:41 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407200349.AA22533@crl.crl.com>; from "Roger Sinasohn" at Jul 19, 94 8:49 pm Status: RO In Mich. they went for 40K, sitting right next to the Defender 110 as a Range Rover for 37K. I just couldn't convince my wife that a Defender was worth more that a Ranger Rover.(or my self for that matter. My biggest objections with the Defender was lack of left elbow room for the driver. Even my wife who is 5' noticed it. Russ > > Okay, so they're selling the Defender 110 for $45K, and they bought it as > an investment... How much did they originally sell for, that they could > make a serious profit? (They must have paid cash, or the interest would > kill any profit they might make.) Weird! > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 08:27:23 2024 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 09:18:36 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Big Bat Fastard Stickers... Status: RO are goooooooooooooone! All the other stickers are still available. John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From CXKS46A@prodigy.com Sat Jul 20 11:11:48 2024 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 11:53:36 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: LR 88 wheel refinishing options Status: RO Yeah...I like to think that I "invented" galvanized rims a dozen years ago or so. No problems, other than rough bits and drips left on the rims that have to be filed off. Sometimes if you have them "double dip" the items, the finish comes out smoother (higher cost though). $.30 a pound is a great price for galvanizing. The local place wants $.65 for the first 100#. Another option would be "powder painting". *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 11:22:53 2024 Date: 20 Jul 94 12:07:31 EDT From: "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" <71773.3457@compuserve.com> To: ALL Subject: seals Status: RO PLEASE HELP....I need a rear main seal housing assembly for a 1955-59 sedan/surban 6 cyl. Rover engine that is in my 1966 109 LR wagon. I have tried everywhere without luck. I can not drive my baby till i get this seal. Any suggestions PLEASE. Benjamin g. Newman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 11:20:27 2024 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Pinion Nut Date: 20 Jul 1994 16:09:07 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <199407200202.WAA12873@transfer.stratus.com>, Russell G. Dushin wrote: SNIP>> >persuader" but to no avail. Have not tried heat yet (thanks Dave4EPEN) >but may shortly. A tool to hold the yoke, if it does in fact exist, >would be most helpful. But, bear in mind that nothing is corroded Suggest you make one. Take bar stock, about 1" wide, 3/16 or 1/4 thick, drill, tap, thread in two 3/8 bolts at one end, close to the edge so that they locate in the drive flange yolk. You'll probable have to notch the bar between the two bolts so that you can get a socket on the 1" nut. Now you can hold the flange and hopefully turn the nut! (Bar stock should be about 18" or longer.) Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 10:01:52 2024 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 21 Jul 94 02:45:25 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: 88 vs 109 Content-Type: Text Status: RO Hi, To the originator of the 88 vs 109 question: I didn't see your original message and am referring to what I read from Roger's reply. I also have both an 88 and 109 Wagon. I love them both but drive the 88 more often. I'll give you the pros and cons of both as I see them. 88 Pros: Easy to maneuver in traffic, tight spots. Zippier too. Better and more fun around town. Accelerates up hills. ***Can take the top off in the summer***. This is what I like best. Cruising the back roads or up to Vermont with the top off. You smile from ear to ear. The smaller size and lower weight makes it better off road. 88 specific parts are more available. The 15" wheels are easier to horse around and tires are more available and less expensive. 88 Cons: Short wheelbase makes for a buckier (is that a word?) ride on bumpy roads. Not a whole lot of room inside. Less legroom. 109 Pros: Lots of room. Much nicer ride. Better legroom. More comfortable on long trips. Better range (SW with rear 18 gal fuel tank). 109 Cons: Has the maneuverability of a Greyhound bus. Accelerates more slowly. Heavy. Not as good gas mileage. Requires more shifting on the highway to get up hills (2.25). Can't take the top off (w/o a crane). 109 specific parts are less available and more expensive (e.g. exhaust, springs etc.). The 16" wheels can give you a hernia taking them off and the choice of rubber is not as varied and considerably more expensive. Series IIA vs III As for the dash, I like the early IIA better. Easier to service and better air flow from the vents. Don't let that stop you from a Series III though. The clutch is much softer (this may not seem like much but after a few hours of driving in non-highway situations my left knee feels like it's going to give out - This could partially be due to an old injury) and no double clutching necessary. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com Roger responded: >> I have one of each (sIII 88" and sII 109"), and I like the 109" much better. The series II is more utilitarian and seems easier to work with. The series III has the guages by the steering wheel, but having them in the center is not hard to get used to. I definitely like the twist knobs for the vents over the levers in the series III, but I could live without the funky sII wiper motors. 88 vs 109 depends on what you're gonna do with it. I like the 109" because I can take it camping and it basically functions as an RV. I've got a bed and cabinets that go in the back. I don't go off-highway all that much, though. It's also great for hauling stuff around. I think the 88"'s are better off-road, though, because they're shorter. So if you're primary use is as an off-highway vehicle, that may be the way to go. (Check with the experts here, though.) >> From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 12:06:55 2024 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 11:01:24 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Fuel cut-off solenoid Status: RO In one of the replies to John Hong's mysterious, sudden power loss, someone mentioned the electric fuel cutoff solenoid. It was fitted to the '72-74 North American export Rovers (maybe others) with the Zenith 36IVE carb. If you still have this device fitted...*remove* it ASAP and throw it away. It is the cause of more problems that it could possibily be worth. First of all, it is a relatively heavy device for its size, tapped into the weak "pot" metal of the carb base. After a while, it will work free, possibily ruining the carb in the process. If not, it will fall onto the manifold, where the heat will eventually melt the wire, creating a dead short back to the instrument panel. Can you say "incandesce?" Mine did just that a 15 years ago, taking the ignition wire and some others in the loom with it in the process. Particularly fun when it happens on the Interstate at rush hour when the cabin fills with smoke as the engine suddenly dies. I replaced mine with the broken-off stub of a pecnil coated with Permatex #1. (Ran fine for years, though a bolt may look better for purists.) The replacement Zenith 36IV doesn't have this bothersome device. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 12:43:58 2024 From: Russell Burns Subject: discovery To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 10:32:39 MDT Status: RO I was wondering if you took a Disco thru deep water if the airbags would deploy as a flotation device. I am trying to decide on a disco, or a defender 90 for my next commuter vehicle. Does any one know if there is a hard top the 90. I just can't convince myself that I could drive 100 miles a day in a soft top. Russ Anti-lock brakes, I though all rovers had Anti-lock breaks. one channel ...only one wheel locks up two channel .... one two wheels lock up ...... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 11:38:25 2024 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 09:28:23 PST From: Brad Krohn To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: Bug eyed Rovers Status: RO My bug-eye doesn't have the second set in the grille, nor any indication of wiring for such headlights. Someone told me the bug-eyes were only from the early part of the model year -- that the recesses came in the second half of '69 model year. Brad_Krohn@hf.ccm.intel.com Hillsboro, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 12:03:04 2024 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 18:46:05 +0100 (MET) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Re: Re: sorry, I'm posting again - now a tech question To: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199407180136.VAA20598@zork.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO If a Land Rover goes: putt BANG BANG putt BANG BANG BANG it is sick. I it goes: putt putt putt COUGH putt putt putt COUGH putt (etc...) all is well. If it goes: putt putt putt putt putt putt putt and there is no noise from gearbox, diffs and loose rivets something is DEFINETELY wrong, -and the car should be thoroughly checked by a skilled mechanic. Soren Vels velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk '76 109" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 20 10:06:46 2024 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: LR 88 wheel refinishing options To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 9:52:01 CDT In-Reply-To: <12407192053.AA19204@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Jul 19, 94 4:54 pm Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu said: > ... > One down, 4 more to go. Need some feedback on > refinishing -- should I: > ... > -- galvanize 'em. Did any LR ever have galvanized > rims. Someone on the net mentioned earlier that > he had done it -- let me know what the pros and > cons are. For those who feel authenticity is > important, would this violate that code? I have a question about galvanizing something like rims (I do *NOT* know the answer to this question, which is why I am asking). I presume that the rims are cold formed, and so I would expect a certain amount of their strength is from work hardening during the forming process. Isn't galvanizing a dip into molten zinc? Would there be any strength loss due to the (perhaps partial) annealing during the molten zinc bath? This *might* be an issue with wheels, where stresses can be concentrated (both from tire pressures on the rim, and impact pressures offroad). I wouldn't think it an issue with frames, because they are not *cold* formed, therefore shouldn't derive any of their strength from work hardening. Nor would it be an issue with small bits like brackets, etc, due to the much lower stresses involved. Ray, maybe you could ask your local galvanizer about it? Is this a non-issue? Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 20 22:15:42 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 22:54:15 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Westward Bound and Rover Hunting! To: land-rover-owner@team.net Status: RO Hi, I will be heading west from Knoxville,TN on a trip west from August 6-20. I would love to see any and all Landies, so if anyone has one they would like to show off or knows someone who would, I'd love to see it! I am also looking to buy a SII or SIIa 109 SW soon so any 4sale along my route below would be very interesting. Also, I understand there will be a rally somewhere around these dates, could someone fill me in? Thanks!! Knoxville,TN >>> Denver,CO via Missouri & Kansas Denver, CO >>> Moab, Utah Moab, Utah >>> Flaggstaff,AZ via Canyonlands and Zion NP Flaggstaff,AZ >>> Durango,CO Durango, CO >>> San Antonio,TX via Santa Fe,NM -Joseph Broach From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 20 18:16:12 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: seals To: 71773.3457@CompuServe.COM (BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 19:07:25 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <940720160730_71773.3457_FHM78-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "BENJAMIN G. NEWMAN" at Jul 20, 94 12:07 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > PLEASE HELP....I need a rear main seal housing assembly for a 1955-59 > sedan/surban 6 cyl. Rover engine that is in my 1966 109 LR wagon. I have tried > everywhere without luck. I can not drive my baby till i get this seal. Any > suggestions PLEASE. > Benjamin g. Newman > By any chance, will the upgraded "four piece" rear main from a SIIa 2.25L engine work for you?? The older seals were "two piece" units (a bottom and a top half, with supposedly softer material 'round about the center.. I say supposedly because when I recently replaced Nigel's rear main- yet another tangent in the clutch judder story-the old one was hard as well, metal). I was told at the time that the old rear main seals were NLA, but I was not SOL, 'cause the new four piece units (two half-retainers, a split seal, and a spring) bolted right up. Sorry, but I think I tossed the old two piece seal (so I can no longer measure it up), but maybe someone out here in netland has a motor sans flywheel that they can measure the seal's dimensions from for you. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 20 18:21:45 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: discovery To: burns@cisco.com (Russell Burns) Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 19:12:23 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407201732.AA16388@ash.cisco.com>; from "Russell Burns" at Jul 20, 94 10:32 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > vehicle. Does any one know if there is a hard top the 90. > I just can't convince myself that I could drive 100 miles a day > in a soft top. > > Russ Just the other day I saw a picture of a 90 with a cab top on it. I have NOT been able to relocate this picture, but I know I was NOT dreaming 'cause I pinched myself when I saw it. If the cab top is available can a full-on hardtop be far behind?? Anyone else see this somewhere? rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 20 23:55:08 1994 Date: Wed, 20 Jul 1994 23:45:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Sides and top... To: Roger Sinasohn Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407200348.AA22507@crl.crl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re what do you put between the top and the sides. Up in Canada where the temps get to -40, we have found that the foam tape with one sticky side is just great. It comes in 1" wide strips about 10 feet long. It has an added advantage of having a plastic surface on one side which doesn't gather dust when the top is off and it doesn't absorb the rain. It is very cheap. It is probably sold as insulation up here so maybe it is harder to get in the southern states. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 00:50:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LR 88 wheel refinishing options From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 20 Jul 94 23:57:59 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > -- galvanize 'em. Did any LR ever have galvanized > rims. Someone on the net mentioned earlier that > he had done it -- let me know what the pros and > cons are. For those who feel authenticity is > important, would this violate that code? The only con I can think of is that the galvinisation process could warp the rims. However, I have yet to see a straight set of rims in the first place up here... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 00:50:51 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 00:01:18 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Roger Sinasohn writes: > I think the 88"'s are better off-road, though, because they're shorter. So > if you're primary use is as an off-highway vehicle, that may be the way to > go. (Check with the experts here, though.) > > Either way, they're great. All depends what you are going through. My 109 does a fantastic job in the bush up here. Better than the 88's. However, try and turn one of these suckers and you are in for problems. I blew away eight tail light lenses last year... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 01:17:12 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 08:10:55 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: seals Priority: normal Status: RO > PLEASE HELP....I need a rear main seal housing assembly for a 1955-59 > sedan/surban 6 cyl. Rover engine that is in my 1966 109 LR wagon. I have tried > everywhere without luck. I can not drive my baby till i get this seal. Any > suggestions PLEASE. > Benjamin g. Newman Aaaah, the dreaded Rover sedan rear main oil seal!! I'm assuming this is the 2-piece heavy grade rubber jobby with the top half that bolts onto the engine block and the lower half that bolts onto a crankshaft cap? The bad news is that Rover's never really "fixed" the oil leak problem that stems from the selection of this design back in the 1940's, they tinkered around with this oil seal for over 20 years -- with all the complexities of different part numbers etc. Have you actually got the seal out in front of you? There are 2 main derivatives: 1. "Early" this was that described above -- a two piece rubber item with the actual oil seal faces being integral. If this is the case than I hope someone in the group in England can point you to a source. 2. "Late" the 2 piece idea converted so that these items acted as retaining caps for a split O-ring oil seal that actually operated on the crankshaft. If this is the case, there's some good news. You should be able to find a oil seal of the correct diameter and dimensions off the shelf. Don't worry if the only ones you can find are "solid" (ie. non-split) -- take a very, very fine hacksaw and cut the seal's internal steel reinforcing (take the spring off 1st!) -- then with a razor blade slice thru actual seal part: you've now got a split seal (Buy a few in case you make a cock-up or two!). Now following the manual, gently work the seal over the crankshaft taking care not to twist or distort the inner steel shell -- don't worry it'll go eventually. Make sure the "cut" is located facing "up". The 2 retaining caps can now be reinstalled - - again following the directions in the manual -- basically they're designed to minimise oil leaks stemming from what was really a crappy design. (A further dodge is to make up an extra 2-piece set of oil baffles out of light gauge steel\shim-stock and bolt them on in front of the seal to again reduce the quantities of oil getting into the area -- but that's another story.) In worst case, what you can do with the early seals is to cut out the "seal" portion in the centre so that a split-seal can be inserted -- ie. do what Rovers did --> Convert the original 2-piece seal into a pair of seal retainers only. In fact this may be the quickest, most inexpensive and more enduring solution. Good luck (Remember: "Farmers and Landie drivers can always make a plan!!") Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 03:31:57 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 01:19:24 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Uncle Roger and the Internet Status: RO I'm using a windows front end program for Internet mail, and I'm having a bit of a problem getting it set up properly, so if you send me e-mail and don't hear back or you see a response to something from a month ago, I apoligize in advance. Of course, this message probably won't make it onto the net until I get it fixed... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 03:28:22 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 01:19:35 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Bunch of replies Status: RO I've got a fancy-dancy Windows mail reader that I found a bug in. (I can find bugs in anything. ) Well, not really a bug, but if you do what you're not supposed to, things can get screwed up. So all the messages that I've written for the past few weeks never got sent until recently. So I apologize for my tardiness. (It's nice to have a real excuse for once! ) In spite of this problem (which I think I caused myself), it's a great program. It's called Pronto and sells for $149. E-mail pronto@commtouch.com (or me) for more info. I'm an independent computer programmer/analyst, specializing in Cobol and Powerhouse development on HP3000 minicomputers. That's why the pompous sounding signature. I'm don't really wear suits or anything. I don't really have names for my Rovers yet... So far everyone has just called my 109" by its license plate -- INDY 1. (Reference to being an Independent Consultant, plus a bit of hubris -- as in Indiana Jones.) My 88" is too new to even have given much thought to it. The plates say SFARI 88, though. "Ownership" hasn't really even been decided yet -- my girlfriend and my brother are still fighting over who gets it. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 03:28:19 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Westward Bound and Rover Hunting! To: PC7170@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU (Joseph Broach) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 02:21:27 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407210307.XAA27851@transfer.stratus.com> from "Joseph Broach" at Jul 20, 94 10:54:15 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 727 Status: RO Joseph, Sounds like you will be in the right place at the right time to see a lot of Rovers. Finger me for details on the national rally (which will mosey from Grand Junction to Moab, to Durango about the same time you might be in the area). [finger tomills@du.edu] There are something like 60-80 Rovers in Colorado, several in Denver, including 2 besides mine at the U of Denver. Mine is quite sick right now -- not sure it'll be healed in time for the rally. Very sad for my son who keeps a logbook of Rover sightings. (Mine is IIA 109, but not for sale -- yet!) Todd T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 20 19:36:02 1994 Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing (fwd) To: sinasohn@crl.com Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 10:36:45 NZT From: Derek Tearne Cc: lro@team.net Content-Length: 8182 Content-Type: text In-Reply-To: ; from "Hugh Grierson" at Jul 21, 94 9:06 am Status: RO Hugh Grierson forwarded this question to me as I have some experience in this area. Although, sadly, I have no longer got a Landrover. > > Date: Tue, 19 Jul 1994 20:48:26 -0700 > > From: Roger Sinasohn > > To: 100043.2400@CompuServe.COM, lro@team.net > > Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing > > > > > Sure, switch to a TDi ! (Oh no, there goes John Hong again...) > > > > > Can you put a TDi in a sII? I was actually hoping for some tips that > > I could *afford*. But that's not a bad idea! I'm hoping to (someday) > > make a trip from the top of Europe to the bottom of Africa and back, and > > that might be a lot more practical that the chevy straight-6 conversion I > > was considering. > > > > Diesel, as I understand it, is pretty common across Europe... How common > > is it in Africa? Especially in the less populated areas? Not only is Diesel common in Africa it is the recommended fuel for several reasons. Fuel economy, the single most expensive running cost of the trip is fuel. You must also ensure that you can carry enough fuel for approximately 600 miles (potentially the distance between fuel stops in Zaire). Obviously diesel means less fuel and therefore fewer jerry cans and (more importantly) less additional weight to carry. If you _do_ run out of diesel you will always be able to buy some surplus from a passing truck. With petrol (gasoline) you are unlikely to have that luxury as the few vehicles using it won't be carrying much surplus. Diesel engines are also less particular about fuel quality. In Zaire petrol (gasoline) was almost impossible to obtain. There was however plenty of diesel. The Chevy straight is conversion would be a very poor choice for African travel as it would be essentially impossible to obtain spare parts. The TdI would not be quite so bad although I would strongly suggest carrying spare injectors. Landrover UK are pretty good at letting you know which parts you are unlikely to be able to get. The older (and slower) Landrover diesel at least uses pretty standard equipment. The following is a brief description of vehicle choice and preparation for the trans African travel. I did mail some of this a couple of years ago (when I still had the Landrover :-( ). I realise that I'm preaching to the converted here, you've already chosen the correct marque anyway! ======================================================================= Africa Overland - Vehicle Choice and Preparation A little about the vehicle we used, why we chose it and preparation for overland travel. Vehicle Choice: The Landrover 110 seemed to be just about the most suitable vehicle for Overland Travel for a small party (in our case two). It is permanent 4WD (easy to use!), coil sprung (comfortable) has a payload of 1200kg (largest of any vehicle in its class?), it is known throughout Africa so parts should be available and Landrover have had nearly 50 years experience building exclusively 4WD vehicles so they should know what they're doing. Of course the fact that I spent my youth living nearly opposite the factory and had therefore always wanted one had nothing to do with my decision making! Why Diesel?: Well it is more economical than petrol (a major consideration when travelling > 20000 Miles). Generally more reliable than a Petrol engine (none of those pesky spark plugs, coils, leads, distributors to shake loose, smash, or get full of dust). Diesel is more readily available than petrol and usually cheaper (Except in South Africa where it was the same price). All we had to do to the engine was change the oil as required (v. important with any vehicle under these conditions) and clean the injectors once (in Kenya) which resulted in improved fuel consumption. Fuel consumption was something around 11 Litres /100 Km. Diesels are less susceptible to dirty fuel or local 'performance' additives (e.g. water, kerosene etc). The only drawback is the lower power/ speed although most of the trip top speed was not important and low end torque was. So not such a big drawback. We decided against a Turbo diesel as it is rather a complicated piece of equipment to take out into the wilds. Especially a second hand ones. Turbos seem very susceptible to bad handling (wrong oil etc.) and you just can't tell how its been used. We met some people in a brand new Tdi Turbo Diesel Landrover and they had no problems with it and it was economical, powerful etc. But they looked after it and drove smoothly and carefully. At one campsite in Malawi the couple in the latest TdI (The first one in Africa) were parked next to a 33 year old LWB! We had a County Model (i.e. top of the range, comfy seats, tinted windows, Levelled suspension etc. This was mostly luck but worked out well as on a trip like this comfort can be quite important. Also the county models often have an easy life in the U.K. being owned by rich people who *need* a big 4WD to go across the occasional field or look the part at Horsey events etc. So for very little extra we got a relatively low mileage vehicle which had only rarely been off road before. Preparation: this consisted of removing the rear seats, fitting a roof tent, split charge circuit and auxiliary battery, raised air intake (stops fine dust from clogging the air filter and prevents water intake when wading - a good idea) guards over the lights, bull bars (already on vehicle). The second battery was connected to five Hella sockets (3 internal (1 fridge only) and two external for water filter pump, tyre pump, internal/external neon lights, nicad battery charger etc. Auxiliary 45L Fuel tank. Other equipment: Cooking equipment, multi fuel spirit stove(Optimus), High lift Jack, Manual winch(Tirfor), Tyre levers, Tools, Jerry cans (5*20L Nato Plastic - water 4*20L Metal - fuel), Saw, Shovel etc. Don't be fooled into buying an electric winch. They look macho and safari prepared, but a good one will cost nearly 1000 Pounds - as much as our *entire* equipment bill (including manual winch). You may never need to use the winch (we used it for recovering ourselves only once) and if you're recovering someone else make them put some effort into pulling themselves out - serves them right getting stuck like that. If you're feeling really poor you can use a high lift jack as a winch. Problems: Broken windscreen (replaced in Nigeria for about 75 Pounds - would have been more expensive in U.K.! but don't break your windscreen after Nigeria as parts become *very* expensive). Worn suspension bushes - replaced in Uganda, replaced steering damper in Uganda. Brake problems (overhauled rear wheel cylinders, relined rear drums, overhauled master cylinder, replaced front pads) one cracked injector nozzle and replaced rear shocks. Pinion oil seal leaking on rear diff neads repairing. Apart from a few scratches and a couple of dents the vehicle looks (and feels) as good as new. Parts were available but quite expensive. Most African countries charge enourmous import duty on foreign goods so take as many spares as you think you will need. Especially things like hydraulic overhaul kits, rubber bushes etc. Driving: The Landrover 110 is easy to drive, especially as ours has power steering, although it is a little larger than I was used too. To prepare myself for the conditions ahead (I had not previously driven a 4WD or of road ) I took a 'vehicle familiarisation course' at Landrover in Solihull U.K. This was certainly a good investment, they get you to drive over *impossible* obstacles with ease and really give you an idea of what the vehicle is capable of. So when we encountered *worse* obstacles in real life we had the confidence to get in there and go for it. ======================================================================== Hope this has been of use. --- Derek From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 20 17:55:38 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 8:36:26 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO [Stuff Deleted] > This is what I like best. Cruising the back roads or up to Vermont with the > top off. You smile from ear to ear. The smaller size and lower weight makes > it better off road. 88 specific parts are more available. The 15" wheels are > easier to horse around and tires are more available and less expensive. > 15" wheels are not standard fitment on any Land Rover, except the Game which was only available in Australia and came standard with wide wheels! So if you say that 15: wheels are cheaper, then you can put them on a 109 aswell. > 88 Cons: > > Short wheelbase makes for a buckier (is that a word?) ride on bumpy roads. > Not a whole lot of room inside. Less legroom. > I believe the word you were looking for is pitch, but as for less leg room, from the seat box forward, 88's and 109's are almost identical, (Less parts to make) so the leg room is identical, except for series III long wheel bases, had an adjustable drivers seat, but I have always believed that my 86" has more leg room, and more spacious foot wells than my sisters 88". 88's also have less wheel travel than a 109 as the rear prop shaft is shorter. > 109 Pros: > > Lots of room. Much nicer ride. Better legroom. More comfortable on long > trips. Better range (SW with rear 18 gal fuel tank). > > 109 Cons: > > Has the maneuverability of a Greyhound bus. Accelerates more slowly. Heavy. > Not as good gas mileage. Requires more shifting on the highway to get up > hills (2.25). Can't take the top off (w/o a crane). 109 specific parts are > less available and more expensive (e.g. exhaust, springs etc.). The 16" > wheels can give you a hernia taking them off and the choice of rubber is not > as varied and considerably more expensive. 109's have less braking power, unless fitted with a power booster, which I believe was only fitted to 6 cylinder models. And again about the tyres, 16" wheels are not that heavy, you just have to get used to them. > > Series IIA vs III > > As for the dash, I like the early IIA better. Easier to service and better > air flow from the vents. Don't let that stop you from a Series III though. > The clutch is much softer (this may not seem like much but after a few hours > of driving in non-highway situations my left knee feels like it's going to > give out - This could partially be due to an old injury) and no double > clutching necessary. If you are lucky enough, you might find a late IIA with a full syncro box, as the syncro box was actually put in some of the very late IIA's and not a new feature of the series III, it was just a gimick that the sales people said was a new feature of the Series III (The Land Rover that promised to be soo much more!!!) ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au > > Bill Maloney > > IIA 88 & 109 Wagon > > maloney@wings.attmail.com > > Roger responded: > > >> > I have one of each (sIII 88" and sII 109"), and I like the 109" much better. > The series II is more utilitarian and seems easier to work with. The series > III has the guages by the steering wheel, but having them in the center is not > hard to get used to. I definitely like the twist knobs for the vents over the > levers in the series III, but I could live without the funky sII wiper motors. > 88 vs 109 depends on what you're gonna do with it. I like the 109" because I > can take it camping and it basically functions as an RV. I've got a bed and > cabinets that go in the back. I don't go off-highway all that much, though. > It's also great for hauling stuff around. > > I think the 88"'s are better off-road, though, because they're shorter. So if > you're primary use is as an off-highway vehicle, that may be the way to go. > (Check with the experts here, though.) > >> > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 20 18:41:24 1994 From: root@ocs.cpsg.com.au Subject: Re: discovery To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 9:29:00 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > > vehicle. Does any one know if there is a hard top the 90. > > I just can't convince myself that I could drive 100 miles a day > > in a soft top. > > > > Russ > > > Just the other day I saw a picture of a 90 with a cab top on it. > I have NOT been able to relocate this picture, but I know I was > NOT dreaming 'cause I pinched myself when I saw it. If the cab > top is available can a full-on hardtop be far behind?? > > Anyone else see this somewhere? > > rd/nigel > In England you can get all the hard tops that you could get with the series II and III, but I don't know what you are complaining about, here in Australia we cannot even get the 90!!!! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 08:59:33 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 09:40:31 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Re: Fuel cut-off solenoid Status: RO MR ALEXANDER P GRICE writes: >In one of the replies to John Hong's mysterious, sudden power loss, someone >mentioned the electric fuel cutoff solenoid. It was fitted to the '72-74 >North American export Rovers (maybe others) with the Zenith 36IVE carb. If >you still have this device fitted...*remove* it ASAP and throw it away. It >is the cause of more problems that it could possibily be worth. Thanks for the info but I'm doing the weber thing... John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 13:52:46 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Defender hard/soft/cab/etc tops Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 11:22:42 Status: RO || Does any one know if there is a hard top the 90. | | Just the other day I saw a picture of a 90 with a cab top on it. | If the cab top is available can a full-on hardtop be far behind?? i'm coming at this from the opposite perspective. i've got a hardtop Defender (110), and on 100 degree days like today, i'd love to have a convertable. but during the rest of the year when its raining, i'd be happy with the hardtop. with my older IIA it was easy to remove the top and doors, then fold down the windshield. but this new Defender doesn't allow this, the top is permanently attached, at least in the 2" body area between the front and rear doors. are there any options Defenders in other countries (than the US) for removable hardtops? perhaps this 'cab top'? i'd love to have a removable hardtop (which would be a task with this 'safari cage' in the way, but the cage would be a good frame to hold a rough soft top. if i attempt to get it converted to a removable hardtop, do you know if this will cause major body frame weakening? thanks, Lee __ Lee Fisher, leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 16:49:37 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: 90 hardtop To: dushinrg@primail.pr.cyanamid.com (Russell G. Dushin) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 17:41:13 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407202312.TAA17367@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at Jul 20, 94 7:12 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > > vehicle. Does any one know if there is a hard top the 90. > > I just can't convince myself that I could drive 100 miles a day > > in a soft top. > > > > Russ > > > Just the other day I saw a picture of a 90 with a cab top on it. > I have NOT been able to relocate this picture, but I know I was > NOT dreaming 'cause I pinched myself when I saw it. If the cab > top is available can a full-on hardtop be far behind?? > > Anyone else see this somewhere? > > rd/nigel > Ah, folks, I have a retraction to make. The photo I saw must have been a regular ol' Euro-issue 90 as it definately had a rear bulkhead and a Defender 90 does NOT have one. BUT! I just got off the phone with a friend who has a 110 (he's loaded... but is thinking of selling it soon-any takers?). He stopped in at the RR dealer in NYC (I think it was the Zumbach folks) and they showed him a photo of the NEW HARDTOP FOR THE DEFENDER 90 (that will be coming soon to a rich neighbor's garage near you)! He said that, like the softtops, the roll bar was partially exposed externally, that it appeared to be made of plastic, and that it would cost about $2K. Save those pennies! rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 17:29:46 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 18:19:49 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO To the fellow requesting info on the Furgy bits (sorry, was cleaning house and forgot exactly who you were, but finally did realize you were down under): The air cleaner on the ford 9N and our Furgy TO30 are identical. I suspect that one off a ford 8N or 2N would be the same as well, but I am not so sure it'll work for you. These air cleaners are basically just cylindrical tins with removable bottoms on them that are held on by a metal band/clamp setup. They are about 10 1/4 inches tall by 4 1/2 inches in diameter (sorry, no cm here!), and the removable bottom is about 2 1/4 inches tall (the *overall* height is 10 1/4 inches with the bottom on). The mounting bracket is stampped on, about 1/2 way down and on one side. It has two (what appear to be) 1/2 inch bolts (or bigger- I think the heads on them may have been 11/16 inches) that hold it to the "frame". The carb-side output comes off at roughly a 45 degree angle from near the top, angled downwards, but it is ONLY 1 1/2 inches in diameter (THIS is why I question whether it will work-you will need to find an adapter or a hose that has a significant enlargement on it, and I also wonder if it will be tooooo restrictive.) The intake side is a spout coming out the top with a rubber hose that goes to a snorkel of sorts. The newer model Furgusens that you mentioned probably have something more compatible with your needs. BUT, has anyone tried using a simple KandN??? Why not? rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 21:22:25 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: discovery From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 17:44:53 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Russell Burns writes: > I am trying to decide on a disco, or a defender 90 for my next commuter > vehicle. Does any one know if there is a hard top the 90. > I just can't convince myself that I could drive 100 miles a day > in a soft top. Take of the silly roll bar and a hard top from a IIA or III will fit with a bit of modification. (The 90 windscreen is taller) This would be the cheapest solution as II/IIA/III hard tops are fairly plentify and cheap. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 21:22:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 17:47:58 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Craig Murray writes: > If you are lucky enough, you might find a late IIA with a full syncro box, > as the syncro box was actually put in some of the very late IIA's and not > a new feature of the series III, it was just a gimick that the sales people > said was a new feature of the Series III (The Land Rover that promised to be > soo much more!!!) Why would you want a full synchro box? The IIA box is stronger that the III and will take more abuse. No synchro in 1st and 2nd doesn't take long to get used to. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 20:17:51 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: cheap-prick heat shield To: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 17:21:13 MDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199407212350.TAA04267@zork.tiac.net>; from "John Hong" at Jul 21, 94 7:50 pm Status: RO I was going to recommend the triple wall pipe used for flues, and zero clearance fireplaces. Russ > > Folks, > > So I'm trotting around the Home Depot store and I see 5 inch diameter steel > air duct (2 feet long) for $2.11 and figure what the hay - I can use it as a > heat shield on the exhaust pipe running under the drivers floor board. It > turns out to be just the right length. It is secured with 4 inch stainless > hose clamps (only $.89 each!) and also wedged between the frame member and > transfer case. > > Winder how long this lasts - hope I don't regret it... > > > John Hong > (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 19:39:55 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: 90 hardtop To: burns@cisco.com (Russell Burns) Date: Thu, 21 Jul 94 17:31:50 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199407212140.RAA22908@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at Jul 21, 94 5:41 pm Status: RO > > > > > > vehicle. Does any one know if there is a hard top the 90. > > > I just can't convince myself that I could drive 100 miles a day > > > in a soft top. > > > > > > Russ > > > > > > Just the other day I saw a picture of a 90 with a cab top on it. > > I have NOT been able to relocate this picture, but I know I was > > NOT dreaming 'cause I pinched myself when I saw it. If the cab > > top is available can a full-on hardtop be far behind?? > > > > Anyone else see this somewhere? > > > > rd/nigel > > > > Ah, folks, I have a retraction to make. The photo I saw must have been > a regular ol' Euro-issue 90 as it definately had a rear bulkhead and a > Defender 90 does NOT have one. > > BUT! I just got off the phone with a friend who has a 110 (he's loaded... > but is thinking of selling it soon-any takers?). He stopped in at the > RR dealer in NYC (I think it was the Zumbach folks) and they showed him > a photo of the NEW HARDTOP FOR THE DEFENDER 90 (that will be coming soon > to a rich neighbor's garage near you)! He said that, like the softtops, > the roll bar was partially exposed externally, that it appeared to be > made of plastic, and that it would cost about $2K. > > Save those pennies! > > rd/nige > Now if we can stuff a tdi under the hood, the ultimate commuter vehicle Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 18:59:00 1994 Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 19:50:39 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: cheap-prick heat shield Status: RO Folks, So I'm trotting around the Home Depot store and I see 5 inch diameter steel air duct (2 feet long) for $2.11 and figure what the hay - I can use it as a heat shield on the exhaust pipe running under the drivers floor board. It turns out to be just the right length. It is secured with 4 inch stainless hose clamps (only $.89 each!) and also wedged between the frame member and transfer case. Winder how long this lasts - hope I don't regret it... John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 21 21:38:07 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 12:27:35 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Craig Murray writes: > > > If you are lucky enough, you might find a late IIA with a full syncro box, > > as the syncro box was actually put in some of the very late IIA's and not > > a new feature of the series III, it was just a gimick that the sales people > > said was a new feature of the Series III (The Land Rover that promised to be > > soo much more!!!) > > Why would you want a full synchro box? The IIA box is stronger > that the III and will take more abuse. No synchro in 1st and 2nd > doesn't take long to get used to. > > Rgds, > > Dixon > > > > -- > dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada > I know it takes no time to get used to driving a non synco box, if you notice in my footer, it says I drive a series 1. But some people prefer the syncro box, as they just can't get the knack of doble d clutching. Also easier to change into 1st on the move! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 22 09:50:43 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 09:39:09 -0500 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Address for Roverweb has changed Status: RO In an effort to consolidate some of the services on my machine the address for the roverweb has changed from http://roverweb.gar.utexas.edu:1500/ to http://roverweb.gar.utexas.edu/roverweb/roverweb.html. The old address will have a pointer on it for a month or so. Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 22 11:45:20 1994 Date: Fri, 22 Jul 1994 09:34:09 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 710 Status: RO > Craig Murray writes: > > > If you are lucky enough, you might find a late IIA with a full syncro box, > > as the syncro box was actually put in some of the very late IIA's and not > > a new feature of the series III, it was just a gimick that the sales people > > said was a new feature of the Series III (The Land Rover that promised to be > > soo much more!!!) > > Why would you want a full synchro box? The IIA box is stronger > that the III and will take more abuse. No synchro in 1st and 2nd > doesn't take long to get used to. > > Rgds, > > Dixon AND, the throw out running in the trans oil is a much better design. R, bg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 22 11:28:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Fuel cut-off solenoid From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 22 Jul 94 08:58:00 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I had a rule when my my petrol Land Rover, since sold, that whenever it would have what appear to be a fuel problem, I would promise to check the electrics first. This was from experince, after checking the fuel system, gas tank, pump, lines, carb, to find a faulty coil. Bum coils cost me soo much agravation that I am really glad I have a diesel. Also check that little wire inside the distributor. It moves with the advance and can get weak inside the insulation and break. After 20+ years, they can get pretty cheesy. Hope this helps. Dale (can get out of hell with an ice cream) Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 23 04:03:07 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 10:50:18 GMT+0200 Subject: Rover oil seal -- US medical doctor Priority: normal Status: RO Sorry to bother the group with a "shotgun" -- a chap posted recently with an rear main oil seal problem with a Landie fitted with a Rover sedan engine. I subsequently lost his address..... I've looked up some further details: 1. Early 2-piece seals for 6 cylinder sedans have a part number 275807. The 2 pieces are sold as a single item. This part # is the updated one. 2. Later models from around 1961 onwards feature a 3-piece seal assembly. The good news is that all you need to fix an oil leak here is a *single* split oil seal -- the remaining items are merely the 2 retainers for the seal so they don't need replacing. This simple seal has the *old* Rover part # 542495 -- it will have been superceeded by now, but all Rover parts books will list old and new #'s. The further good news is that even in a worst case, finding a suitably sized seal shouldn't be a moon mission, and even cutting a solid seal to enable it to go around the crank is but the work of a few minutes. A further useful possiblity is that the oil seal for a 6 cylinder Land Rover may very well identical. All you would need to do is to take the above part number to a Landie spares dealer and have him look it up -- tracking thru the supercession sequence. Unfortunately I don't have a Landie spares catalogue to do this direct. I hope that this gets to the right chap! And my sincere apologies to the rest of the group for testing their forbearance. Cheerio, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 23 11:01:38 1994 Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 08:50:20 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Top & Sides Seal Status: RO Well, the experts looked at my sides, and determined that they're fine as is. The pipe insulation is not to thick because it sqwunches down enough. Thanks for all the tips! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 23 11:01:49 1994 Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 08:50:33 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: derek@nezsdc.fujitsu.co.nz, sinasohn@crl.com Subject: Re: This Oil Burning Thing (fwd) Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Wow! Thanks for all the info! That's the kind of stuff that really helps! Guess I'll go Diesel! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Jul 24 20:02:19 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Range Rover tidbits To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sun, 24 Jul 94 17:41:14 MDT Status: RO I was preparing the Rover for the August rallye, and thought I would pass on a few tidbits. The old magnetic CB mount is quite useless on aluminum. So I got to thinking, and realized that a cover plate from a 4" square electrical gang box would do the trick. One cover 4 self tapping sheetmetal screws, and presto..... Actually I was concerned about the soft aluminum (and my wife) so I screwed it to one of the wood planks on the roof rack. There is no good place to mount a CB radio in a R Rover. Cutting the wood grained dash is out of the picture (wife problems) and any other place interfers with the driver. So I stuck it under the back seat. I plan to get a mic extension so the mic can hang somewhere up front. There is just enough room under the seat, wiring is a breeze, and I can even reach the dials. (long arms) I know we have a radio person in the group. What short wave or ham radio would you recommend for a off-road vehicle. Sometime when I am off-raoding alone, I may need to order a pizza, or something if the food runs out. Then there is all the junk one needs for a off road trip. I always try to picture a fully loaded truck rolling down a side hill, and ponder if I would like to be inside taking the ride, or on the top of the hill watching. So a couple of feet of one by two's some plywood, some formica, a little glue, a couple of hinges, and presto a nice cargo box to store all those heavy items one would not want flying around the vehicle. It is held in place by the rear seat, and is bolted to the vehicle in the rear. One slight problem, you have to open the box to lower the tailgate. Then there is a fire extinguser. Where to mount that.... My wife came up with the answer to that. Bolt on top of the roof rack. Who care if it goes off by accident. One last note, the headlight washers only work on low beams. I spent 4 hours troubleshooting this to figure it out. there are relays, timers, more confusing electronics than an IBM 360. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 01:01:04 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Extra fuel for range rover To: lro@stratus.com Date: Sun, 24 Jul 94 19:50:53 MDT Status: RO > > > A short follow up on where to carry extra fuel on a range rover. > For this trip I am going to use a Marine gas tank tied on > the roof rack. With the slick quick disconnects I can connect one of > those marine hoses with the pump, and sipon the fuel from the > marine tank stored on the roof into the main tank. > > Russ > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 10:14:00 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 10:52:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Re: Discovery on Motorweek To: maloney Cc: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, Guy Kawasaki In-Reply-To: <199407251356.JAA18896@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1127 Status: RO On 26 Jul 1994, maloney wrote: > On Thursday, 7/28 at 8:00PM EDT on channel 50 (New Jersey Network), Motorweek > will be testing the US Discovery. Sneak preview: We here in Maryland saw it on Saturday. Basically, they liked it very, very much and kept stressing the competitive price. The opening shot is of the "Ruta Maya" version submerging into, then emerging from, a sea of mud. The one they tested was fully loaded (leather, sunroofs, rear seats, CD changer, auto). Although, as expected, its offroad performance was excellent, I was surprised to see how composed it was with the high speed slalom. ABS worked well (?138 feet 60-0), 0-60 was 14 seconds with the auto (5-speed should fix that), but they managed to get 16 mpg in mixed driving despite 13 City/16 Hwy EPA rating. They liked the updated instruments (older panels were described as "quirky"), seating, and cargo capacity. Bottom line: excellent vehicle on and off pavement. I'm still waiting to get mine (5-speed). Harry _________________________________________________________________ Harry Greenspun hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 09:14:52 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 26 Jul 94 01:53:53 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Discovery on Motorweek Content-Type: Text Status: RO On Thursday, 7/28 at 8:00PM EDT on channel 50 (New Jersey Network), Motorweek will be testing the US Discovery. If you have cable and are not in the NY metro area you may be able to catch it on another channel. Check your local PBS listings for Motorweek (if they carry it) to see if it is broadcast another day and time. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 11:40:15 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: RE: Range Rover tidbits Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 09:22:00 PDT Encoding: 25 TEXT Status: RO >The old magnetic CB mount is quite useless on aluminum. So >I got to thinking, and realized that a cover plate from a 4" square >electrical gang box would do the trick. One cover 4 self tapping >sheetmetal screws, and presto..... Actually I was concerned about the >soft aluminum (and my wife) so I screwed it to one of the wood >planks on the roof rack. I like your solution. I opted to go 'non-magnetic', and mounted it to the left rear bumper (note: the bumper end-piece is 'metal' on a '79). This puts the antenna lower, but it keeps it from getting hung up on branches (a roof rack is out of the question for the same reason). Reception seems to be fine. >There is no good place to mount a CB radio in a R Rover. >Cutting the wood grained dash is out of the picture (wife problems) >and any other place interfers with the driver. I have a fairly 'slim' bodied CB mounted to the left hand side of the 'heater' portion of the dash (just above and right of the drivers foot) This makes it very easy to access the controls, and does not interfere with the drivers foot (the case on my CB is about 1-1/4" thick). John Rostykus john@data-io.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 12:11:27 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: notes from new member Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 12:47:29 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message Message-Id: From: Date: Sat, 23 Jul 1994 16:11:16 PST My rover took a 15' fall of a cliff prior to my usage of the vehicle for a Baja 1000 prerun. It landed on its nose and then fell back onto its wheels. After the prerun of the Baja 1000 and its subsequent usage as a support vehicle for my Ford F150 entry into the race, I submitted it to the dealer for repairs. 16k later it is somewhat o.k.. It needed a new floor board and new body mounts plus lots of other goodies. It still has unwanted creaks, but other than that it is o.k.. My lwb ranger rover has been a chase vehicle for every race in teh score circut. I have 30,000+ miles and 27,000 are HARD off road miles. Not your typical usage!!! Yours in Better Service, W. David Sykes President Andataco 10140 Mesa Rim Road, San Diego California 92121 619-453-9191 ext 1200, 619-453-2676 (fax) dave@andataco.com The best kept secret in the industry?????? ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 12:10:56 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 09:48:51 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: sinasohn@crl.com, sinasohn@crl.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: SF Bay Area get together? Status: RO In message <199407200348.AA22444@crl.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > You mean, like, your Land Rovers work? I didn't think there were any like > that... (Sorry, couldn't resist) The engine that Scotty rebuilt for me last year may sound like it is going to throw a rod at any moment, but it did survive 1250 miles of driving last week with no hitches other than a quart of oil a day. > > San Gregorio sounds fine, except I'm not sure where it is... Is that south > on hwy 1? I was actually kinda thinking of the Edinburgh Castle in the > city -- real fish and chips, etc. (They've even got one of those telephone > poles on the wall if we're feeling macho -- and great dart boards if we're > not stupid. ) San Gregorio is just South of Pacifica on #1. Open beach. But parking lot isn't too senic. I was thinking we could find a plkesent place, circle the Land Rovers and cook up a meal, down a little brew & chat Land Rovers. > > P.S. TeriAnn - did I perchance meet you once up at Scotty's? Do you have > one of those MG station wagon type things? If so, howdy again! I have one of those MGBhard top hatch back thingies, in British Racing Green. Sounds like you did run into me at Scottys. Sorry, but I do not remember which person you are. A lot of people drop by Scottys. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > San Francisco has to be one of the worst places to drive in the US! I went from south of town to the foot of the Golden Gate bridge alternating between first gear and a full stop (Almost there were a few places where I got into second). On the way South, I spent oven an hour creaping to get over the bridge again. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 12:21:09 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 10:01:26 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: sinasohn@crl.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sides and top... Status: RO In message <199407200348.AA22507@crl.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > Spent a fair amount of the weekend at Scotty's with wrench in hand. Got > the seat box out of my 109" so Scotty can work on the Transmission. Also > got all the roof bolts out so we can swap the roof. Next step is take the > sides on and re-put them on because I don't think I did it right last time. > > My question is, what do y'all put between the top of the truck bed and the > bottom of the sides (if anything)? I was using pipe insulation, but that > seems far too thick to my non-mechanical eyes. Any suggestions? > > Thanks in advance! > Contact Moss Motors in Goleta CA. And order the rubber strips for mounting an MGB petrol tank ('68 MGB should get you the right stuff). They are thin and about the correct width. It comes in a roll and as I remember is not very expensive. I think two kits will probably do the job. If I can ever get my cars & the Land Rover's engine squared away, I'm rplacing the sides on my 109's hard top and will need to reseal it top & bottom. I haven't tried the MGB mounting rubber (other than mounting an MGB petrol tank), but it looks like a good fit. Take care, TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 16:01:02 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 13:48:30 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: burns@cisco.com Subject: Re: Range Rover tidbits Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Re your storage box- sounds like a great idea! I didn't quite understand where you put it -- is it a replacement for the loadspace cover? Where is it bolted? I know what you mean about the relays, timers, etc -- there are always 3 times as many wires as you think should be needed! I actually thought my headlight washers were inoperative til I read the fine print and tried them with the headlights on! Re the ham radio, I have looked into same for mine. My ham friends tell me 40 meters is the most reliable day and night long distance (up to 500 miles fairly reliably) communication medium, but you need a full-blown ham license for that. A lesser but simpler alternative is the 2 meter band as there are tons of repeaters, even a few in out of the way places. For that you only need a simple license and the sets are compact. As yet, I have not installed either one. Anyway, it's good to see someone else using a Range Rover for its intended purpose! Regards John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 18:27:21 1994 From: "John R. Benham" Organization: WFOC Spokane, Washington To: LRO@team.net Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 16:19:21 +1100 Subject: Radiators fo LR X-Pmrqc: 1 Priority: normal Status: RO Dear LR owners, Recently my 1968 LR 88 had some leaks in the radiator. A local Spokane, WA shop stated that mine needed recoring at $250. So I bought a used one from RoversWest out of Tucson for $165. However, it is the newer thinner style which also needed the newer style top and bottom hoses. This last weekend, our local Rover Group had a RoverRun near Canada in NW Montana. It has also been unseasonably hot (104 F) for this part of the country. I took the regular mechanical fan off and replaced it with a large thermostatically controlled electric fan. The engine temperature during the run was a lot higher than when using the larger, older radiator - also with electric fan. The fan was on continuously and was blowing the air in the correct direction. I never had overheating problems with the older style radiator. My question is: Do other LR owners with the thinner radiator have overheating problems and how can I solve this problem without looking for an older style radiator? Our RoverRun was a real success, especially when a new member showed up with his new 110 redesigned and built by Overland Services, Ltd. of England. You owe it to yourselves to see such a Rover. It is truly a world class traveler - a land yacht at its best!! It is the flagship of Rovers!! Thanks, John R. Benham, Spokane, WA, USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 17:40:02 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 18:31:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: LR 88 wheel refinishing options To: Mark V Grieshaber Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407201452.AA08959@shute.monsanto.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO True, the parts of the wheel are cold formed,but, the rim is formed and then welded back on itself. The heat involved with hot dip is approx. 850 degrees F. The heat needed to weld is twice that....The concern of the wheel being weakened is valid,but, as they say the proof is in the pudding and I have yet to suffer a failure (Oh lord do we try...see reports on OVLR birthday party...) the strenght lost by galvanizing cannot be as much as is lost by rust and the accompaning stress risers...I have seen several wheels fail due to rust..so...do*something* to protect the wheels,and if in any doubt.....BUY NEW!!!!! We as a group,are faced with a fairly unique problem...with many of our vehicles entering the 3rd or 4th decade of operation,we are entering an unknown world of duribility....the vehicles(and the wheels under them)are being pushed farther and harder than any reasonable engineer and his life cycle goal would have thought about.....if you think about it,the wheels on your car have lasted 4 to5 *times* what the "normal" wheel...and has likely be subjected to treatment that most cars only have nightmares about... Case in point,We are all familiar with the photos of the land rover with the one set of wheels on the ground and the other set on the lift...the vehicle is tilted like,45 degrees from the horizontal....most of the weight is now being applied to the lower wheels and at an angle to boot! How many VW Rabbit/Golfs get *that* treatment!!!(Other than Mike Loiudice's...) :-) The wheels are responsable for transmitting over 600 ft/lbs in low range! (of course,the land rover wheels are spared any overwelming *brakeing* forces... :-) ) In short....be careful,but don't be afraid.... steve....... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 19:14:13 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 17:08:19 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: burns@cisco.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Range Rover tidbits Status: RO Another tidbit that may be worth knowing about CBs and wiring etc; I found that a good place to wire the 12v line for the CB is to the load control relay for the drivers side seat controls. This is a white wire with yellow tracer, from memory (don't quote me) under the drivers seat -- easily accessible by removing the plastic side cover from the seat support (one screw and some hook and loop and loop fastening stuff). The advantage is that you have power to the CB when EITHER 1. the ignition is on, or 2. the driver's door is open (whether or not ignition is on). So, to use the CB from outside the vehicle, when the engine and ignition are off, all you have to do is open the door and grab the microphone. At the same time, you won't accidentally walk off and leave the CB on unless you are in the habit of abandoning your vehicle with the doors open. I am sure there are many other ways of doing it -- why not connect it to the heated rear view mirror circuit??!!?? John Brabyn deRanged Roverer From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 20:40:06 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Range Rover tidbits To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 18:31:58 MDT Cc: burns@cisco.com, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407252048.AA13250@skivs.ski.org>; from "John Brabyn" at Jul 25, 94 1:48 pm Status: RO > > Re your storage box- sounds like a great idea! I didn't quite understand > where you put it -- is it a replacement for the loadspace cover? Where is it > bolted? > Here is the framing dimensions I hope it makes sense. Backseat tailgate top 32.5 in ____________ | | | 16 in | | | | | ____________ Top in hinged in the middle, backseat side is fixed Passenger side 32.5 in a _____________ | | | | 16 in | | b_________ 23 in Diagonal brace from a to b drivers side 32.5 in + ____________ + | | + | | 16 in + | | ________________ 40 in Note the + are the back seat, and the one by two fits under the seat view from tailgate 28 in _____________ | | | | 16 in | | _____________ ====== angle iron bolted to body behind passenger tail assembly. The top, and drivers side frames are covered with .25 inch plywood, and Formica. I am still looking for some thumb screws to bolt down the hinged cover while offroading. Total view from rear of vehicle S P ______ _________ A | | | | R | | | | e | | | | ______ _________ electric storage cooler box From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 19:58:44 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 20:49:39 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Radiators fo LR To: "John R. Benham" Cc: LRO@team.net In-Reply-To: <256ECEB4E28@wfoclan.usbm.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The newer rad needs an overflow tank to work correctly...if you don't have a tank, the rad is low after the 1st heating/cooling cycle...The late and early rads that I've seen have the same size and thickness core.. the electric fan should have been running all the time under hot and heavy running...over 25-30 mph it should cool by forced air only..hence the economy of running an electric fan over a mechanical one...also the eletric is designed to run at one speed and can be calibrated to be most effective at that speed....sooo it most likley wasn't the fans fault... check that thermostat and the ignition timing.....Is the fan pushing or pulling the air through the rad????? steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 21:16:39 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Extra fuel for range rover To: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 19:08:32 MDT Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407251840.AA08408@skivs.ski.org>; from "John Brabyn" at Jul 25, 94 11:40 am Status: RO > > Sounds lioke a great idea! What sort of roof rack do you use? > > John I have a CONFER one piece monster rack I bought for my isuzu 6 years ago. I am sure I stress the gutters on the roof as I approach or exceed the capacities rack with floor 75 lbs 8 gallons of fuel 48 lbs Hi lift jack 30 lbs 8 gallons of water 48lbs Damn, I already have 200 lbs and no luggage. I have often wondered why Rover did not design the door, and window pillors with a steel flange to support the gutters. I could always bolt some angle iron under the gutters. Now what really confuses me is why the disco with a steel roof has a 110 lbs capacity verses 165 for the rover.... Any one know what a Range Rover roof panel costs, after I rip off the gutters ??? russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 21:35:58 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Roof rack To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 19:27:37 MDT Status: RO > > > > > Sounds lioke a great idea! What sort of roof rack do you use? > > > > John > > John, > I have a one piece Con-Ferr monster > I am sure I overload the roof to its limits > > Rack with floor 75 LBS > 6 gallons of gas 48 LBS > 6 gallons of water 48 > Hi lift jack 30 LBS > > Gee I already have 200 lbs... I wonder what a new roof panel costs, > as I am sure to rip off the gutters. > I wish rover had designed a steel flange from the dooor, and roof pillors > to help support the gutters. I could always bolt on some angle iron. > What is really confusing is that the disco only supports 110 LBS > verses 165 for the range rover. > > Russ > > Sorry if this is a repeat, e-mail has been crashing... > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 20:41:51 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 21:34:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 To: Craig Murray Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9407202236.AA17642@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Are we not land rover GURUs (GURI?)....ok 109 vs 88 stuff 1st.... the 109 has more leg room than the 88....the distance between the rear cab bulkhead and the foot wells is greater in the 109....as evidence...the fuel filler enters the cab on the 109 and enters the rear box on the 88 (it does snake forward through the bulhead but there is not enough room to enter the body in front of the bulkhead and behind the door opening...also the cab roof on a 88 has to sit on an adapter plate behind the bulkhead where the 109 has the cab on the top edge of the bulkhead 15 inch wheels were standard on north american 88's from the early 60's on... It is truly bad form to put them on a 109,partictualy a SW,as the greater weight of the 109 can overwhelm those wheels (the 90's are avalable with the styled "range rover" 16 inch wheels where the 110's are not for the same reason..) Bug-eye stuff as I understand it...Lighting regs in the US and Australia took a dim view (yes it's bad) of the light location on the land rover...the lights should be closer to the outide edge of the car.... the first solution,put together overnight,it seems, was to put the "normal" land rover head lights on the *surface* of the front wings..theses were the standard lights with the chrome rings and all the lights do give a "bulging" appearance, and may have earned the name "Bug_eye" We in N.A. were given this rig for the 1968 model year only. By 1969, the lights had sunk in to be flush with the front of the wings,and thus to be some what better protected than the 68 "stand proud" lights..... steve.... ps just wait 'till i pose the question on the 109 canaidian pickup i have! then you can all wrack yer brains fer sure! "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 22:29:19 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 22:19:05 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: seals To: Keith Coman Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <1589FB51A32@giraffe.ru.ac.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re oil seals. I hope this is of some use. U overhauled a series II engine and put in lots of Ser IIA parts. The original engine had the older solid type seal. I used the seal for the newer engine and it worked fine. I also converted over to a diesel crank so I made a few major modifications and still the newer seal worked fine. I don't have any oil leaking after about 4000 miles, so I guess it is fixed. The old seal seemed to be a very rigid sort of thing and the new seal is much softer and seems to fit just fine. Maybe it is worth a try to see if the fitting will work for you. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Jul 25 22:51:10 1994 Date: Mon, 25 Jul 1994 22:33:40 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Range Rover tidbits To: Russell Burns Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407250041.AA27893@ash.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I am a ham radio operator. I use two meters in all my vehicles but remember you need a ham ticket to use these frequencies. There are repeaters in just about every place in North America, and this will let you talk to people just as clearly as if you were on a telephone. Failing this type of rig, I guess a cell phone is your next best bet since CB is really 11 meters, and it is very prone to skip problems and more importantly poor operators causing interference. I have a two meter 5/8th whip mounted on the drivers side wing using the hole normaly used for mounting the boomerang mirrors on the 88. It uses a mount similar to what you would see on a taxi, but stronger. This set up gives a good ground plane under the antenna so you get the best performance, however the higher the better is a good rule when using VHF. I have used a 5/8ths two meter antenna mounted on the roof with a metal plate with suction cups and cutter clips and I have mounted a plate across the corner of my safari rack in the past. The safari rack setup was the best because it was highest. I also use HF shortwave in the vehicle, and for that I use a spring and ball mount like CB operators use, and it is fine. I even have mounted a 12 element beam (2 meter type) on the rig for emergency work. (I was in Hawaii running radio for the American Red Cross using these frequencies and they work just fine) Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 02:13:00 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 23:38:42 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > steve.... > > ps just wait 'till i pose the question on the 109 canaidian pickup i have! > then you can all wrack yer brains fer sure! Lets hear all about it... :-) What year et cetera. I have three sitting here, two petrols and a diesel. Two are to be sold, the third may just get the military ambulance frame (nicely reinforced all about) and a off-road oriented rebuild job. First, however, the Little Earth Pig is about eight hours worth of works away from its safety. The two front hubs are being changed, new seals all about, a little hammering on some bent body panels and all will be ready. Not too soon either, the Rabbit is getting worse. With difficulty I could use fourth gear, now it is all but impossible. Transportation around here is quickly evaporating... Rgds, Dixon PS, expect a copy of the July OVLR newsletter in the mail soon... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 02:16:00 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: LR 88 wheel refinishing options From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 25 Jul 94 23:46:20 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Steven M Denis writes: > True, the parts of the wheel are cold formed,but, the rim is formed and > then welded back on itself. The heat involved with hot dip is approx. > 850 degrees F. The heat needed to weld is twice that....The concern of > the wheel being weakened is valid,but, as they say the proof is in the > pudding and I have yet to suffer a failure (Oh lord do we try...see > reports on OVLR birthday party...) Besides our wheels probably not being straight in the first place, the other thing to bear in ming is that many of these older rims are not double lipped. Hence you *should* be using tubes with the tires. Otherwise sideways forces, rather common while off-roading, could result in the bead breaking and a loss of air. This is what happened to one of your two tires I believe. Rgds, Dixon > How many VW Rabbit/Golfs get *that* treatment!!!(Other than Mike > Loiudice's...) :-) Mine? :-) > "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis > " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 > " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA > " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 Ohhhh! Catching up I see... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 03:38:43 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 9:29:49 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Steven M Denis" at Jul 25, 94 9:34 pm Status: RO Steve, Point taken re headlamp position,but.....why does the ISAJEEP CJ7 (Renegade?) get away with *its* headlamp position? (And I *still* think that the 130 crew cab TDi pickup should be given a US tryout).Now there's a *real* Land Rover! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 10:30:30 1994 From: "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Subject: Re: Range Rover tidbits To: burns@cisco.com (Russell Burns) Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 10:16:34 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407250041.AA27893@ash.cisco.com> from "Russell Burns" at Jul 24, 94 05:41:14 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1431 Status: RO According to Russell Burns: > > >I know we have a radio person in the group. What short wave >or ham radio would you recommend for a off-road vehicle. I am a ham too. When I drove inside the thick forest in Sumatra, Indonesia to reach a remote oilfield, I use 2m (144 MHz) mobile radio with a 100 watt linear amplifier. The antenna is a 5/8 wave mounted on a gutter mount that I put on the water gutter on the tropical roofed 109 SIII. There are enough hams scattered in Sumatra on this very popular 2m band. >Sometime when I am off-raoding alone, I may need to order >a pizza, or something if the food runs out. Yup, several establishments (and also gas stations) have the 2m (and CB) radio, so the radio is a very helpful thing. BTW: I've upgrade the alternator, as the original Lucas 18 ACR is not big enough for the radio, big headlights, air conditioner blowers and the electric fan for the AC's condenser (mounted under the front passenger seat. I need to put the condenser this way as if it mounted in front of the radiator then I always got a very hot engine) Paulus (N5SNN / YG1QN) "The Green" 1975 109 SIII (ex mil), green in color "The White" 1982 109 SIII, white in color -- Paulus Suryono Adisoemarta Internet: yono@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Petroleum Engineering Dept. paulus@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (NeXT!) U of Texas, Austin n5snn@mail.utexas.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 11:02:12 1994 From: MiesVR@aol.com Sender: "MiesVR" To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 11:44:27 EDT Subject: unsubscribe Status: RO unsubscribe Mies VR@aol.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 11:47:36 1994 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 09:40:28 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: burns@cisco.com Subject: Re: Roof rack Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO No, thanks for the info. I waws told that even the dealer supplied roof racks (made by Thule) are OK for 200 lbs; I imagine the heavy duty one they supply, which has almost continuous supports along the gutters, would be more like yours and would carry a lot more. Watch out on those side hills though... John From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 16:22:34 1994 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 12:50:40 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: BENHAM@WFOCLAN.USBM.GOV, LRO@team.net Subject: Re: Radiators fo LR Status: RO In message <256ECEB4E28@wfoclan.usbm.gov> "John R. Benham" writes: > Dear LR owners, > My question is: Do other LR owners with the thinner radiator have > overheating problems and how can I solve this problem without looking > for an older style radiator? > Last year I replaced my series IIA radiator with the thinner series III radiator. The engine runs a tad hotter (sorry I do not have accurate #s). But I have never had it overheat. (2.25L, petrol 109) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 16:42:58 1994 Date: Tue, 26 Jul 94 14:33:35 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@stratus.com Subject: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners Status: RO I'm interested in knowing what kind of gas milage people are getting in 109s with 2.25 petrol engines, and what carb they are using. Mine is in good tune, has a rodchester 1 barrel and is getting about 12.5 ish. open highway over mountainous roads. What are others getting and what carbs are you using. I'm almost ready to rebush my SOLIX and putting it back on. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 18:36:55 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners Date: 26 Jul 1994 23:24:43 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <9407262133.AA27899@apple.com>, TeriAnn Wakeman wrote: >I'm interested in knowing what kind of gas milage people are getting in 109s >with 2.25 petrol engines, and what carb they are using. > I haven't counted lately, but my mileage is close to yours. I have a 107 Station Wagon, which is probably a tad lighter than a 109 Station Wagon. Using a Rochester, manual choke, #48 jet. Mileage goes up considerbly if you have: 7.50 x 16 Michelin radials, 12 ply rating pump these up to 50 psi for around town I have seen this combination get close to 20 mpg, with a Rochester. C D B A B C C D D I have seen this combination get close to 20 mpg. (with a Rochester.) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Jul 26 22:34:35 1994 From: "P. Suryono Adisoemarta" Subject: Re: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners To: twakeman@apple.com Date: Tue, 26 Jul 1994 22:20:31 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407262133.AA27899@apple.com> from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Jul 26, 94 02:33:35 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 761 Status: RO According to TeriAnn Wakeman: > >I'm interested in knowing what kind of gas milage people are getting in 109s >with 2.25 petrol engines, and what carb they are using. > The Green (because it's green in color, my car), '75 109 SIII 4 km/l city (with A/C), 5.5 km/l (city, without A/C), 9 km/l (highway) (this numbers are with the locking hub disengaged). Rebuilt Solex carb (I did myself, using a carb repair kit). The White (because the color is white, my mother's favourite car), '82 109 SIII, same gas mileage, original Solex. Paulus (N5SNN) -- Paulus Suryono Adisoemarta Internet: yono@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Petroleum Engineering Dept. paulus@nextover.pe.utexas.edu (NeXT!) U of Texas, Austin n5snn@mail.utexas.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 06:00:11 1994 Subject: Re: Range Rover tidbits To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 10:55:56 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones In-Reply-To: <2E33E54D@dspmail.data-io.com> from "Rostykus, John" at Jul 25, 94 09:22:00 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2008 Status: RO Rostykus, John writes: > [...] > > >There is no good place to mount a CB radio in a R Rover. > >Cutting the wood grained dash is out of the picture (wife problems) > >and any other place interfers with the driver. > > I have a fairly 'slim' bodied CB mounted to the left hand side of the > 'heater' portion of the dash (just above and right of the drivers foot) > This makes it very easy to access the controls, and does not interfere with > the drivers foot (the case on my CB is about 1-1/4" thick). For pre-95 model year vehicles, another possibility, particularly if you only want to have the CB fitted occasionally, but leave no trace of it having been there when not fitted, is to remove the coin tray. This coin tray (the thing in the middle of the dashboard, where the radio speaker was on the early ones - yes I know that any self respecting coin is going to jump right out on the first corner, but I can't think of a better name so I will stick with it) is held in by a couple of screews hidden below the rubber mat. The mat just sits in the try and isn't (or atleast shouldn't be glued in or anything silly like that). Once the tray is removed, it is farly easy to rig up a bracket to mount the CB using the tray mounting holes. There is plenty of space behind the dash to feed the aerial cable through along with all the other wires required. Once you have finished with the CB you unplug the wires, drop them into the hole, remove the bracket and put the tray back until the next time you need it. I literally only takes a couple of minites to install or remove, once you have sorted the bracket and fed the cables through. Regards Rich -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 05:45:54 1994 From: Robert Meredith Subject: 88" sIII Questions To: land-rover-owner@team.net Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 11:30:16 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi, I've got a 21 year old SIII 88" 2.25l petrol landy that I bought a couple of weeks ago and have a couple of questions for other SWB owners. Has anyone got 750 tyres on their SWB, is this possible? I would like to do this to make the gearing higher and improve the fuel consumption. Fuel consumption: Does anyone have a feel for the improvements with free wheeling hubs, larger tyres, overdrive? I'm getting about 15mpg on a commuting cycle at the moment. Has anyone set up a sleeping arrangement with a board over the passenger seat? I know you'll all laugh and say if you want to sleep in it buy a 109 but I'm only thinking of this for very rare (emergency) situations. What is the usual top speed people are able to obtain on motorway driving with reasonable comfort? Anyway I think this will do for starters I'm off to the spares shop to get a new steering wheel as mine is sheeding black gunk all over my hands on the way to work!! Cheers, Rob Meredith. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 06:50:21 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: 88" sIII Questions To: robm@hpman010.uksr.hp.com (Robert Meredith) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 12:39:16 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407271030.AA13473@hpman010.uksr.hp.com>; from "Robert Meredith" at Jul 27, 94 11:30 am Status: RO > > Hi, > > I've got a 21 year old SIII 88" 2.25l petrol landy that I bought a couple > of weeks ago and have a couple of questions for other SWB owners. > > Has anyone got 750 tyres on their SWB, is this possible? I would like > to do this to make the gearing higher and improve the fuel consumption. According to the "Repair Operations Manual", SWB machines can be fitted with 6.00,6.50.7.00 or 7.50 tyres.Acceleration suffers(I've got 205.16 Trakcker radials on mine,a little bigger than 6.00,but even so,the loss of acceleration is noticeable.which with a diesel is a bit crucial:-). With 7.50 tyres your speedo will be well out of calibration,but cruising is less stressfull. > > Fuel consumption: Does anyone have a feel for the improvements with > free wheeling hubs, larger tyres, overdrive? I'm getting about 15mpg on > a commuting cycle at the moment. 15mpg seems about average to good on a commuting cycle,FWH are worth having IMO (theyre on my shopping list ever since I had occasion to run without my front prop shaft for a fornight.The difference was noticeable.O/D well worth having,but payback time has to be studied,an O/D is on my "I wish"list. Electric fan may help,too. > > Has anyone set up a sleeping arrangement with a board over the passenger > seat? I know you'll all laugh and say if you want to sleep in it buy a 109 > but I'm only thinking of this for very rare (emergency) situations. > > What is the usual top speed people are able to obtain on motorway driving > with reasonable comfort? > > Anyway I think this will do for starters I'm off to the spares shop to get > a new steering wheel as mine is sheeding black gunk all over my hands on > the way to work!! Try Brasso,followed by spray on furnture polish.Cures the disintegration problem for quite a while,and is cheaper than a new steering wheel. > > Cheers, > > Rob Meredith. > Hope this helps Cheerio Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 07:57:53 1994 Date: 27 Jul 94 08:46:08 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Fairey Overdrive Status: RO Has anyone installed a Fairey Overdrive in a Series III 88. I am considering having one installed and have several questions. 1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than the transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? 2. How much work and modification is required? Does it just bolt into the power takeoff hole or is extensive modification required? 3. How much does it change the gearing. In other words can I cruise at 60 MPH with approximately the same engine RPMs that I now experience at 45 - 50 mph. Thanks Keith Steele 75126,1123@compuserve.com '72 Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 08:02:51 1994 Date: 27 Jul 94 08:51:55 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Subject: RoverWeb Access Status: RO I would like to access the RoverWeb and so far have unable to do so. I use Delphi for internet access. If anyone of you Internet experts could give me explicit instructions on accessing the RoverWeb via Delphi I would be eternally gratefull. Thanks Keith Steele 75126.1123@compuserve.com '72 Series III Since new. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 08:19:52 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:18:08 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: 88" sIII Questions Priority: normal Status: RO Oops, missed these 'uns... > > What is the usual top speed people are able to obtain on motorway driving > > with reasonable comfort? In stock condition: flat out is around 60mph. Fast cruising: =\- 50mph. Comfortable cruising: 45-47mph. Noise and steering attention become niggles at high speeds. Also the old SII's brakes can give you a few hairy moments at really high speed crash-applications in traffic emergencies...! Drive within the limits --- practically 45- 50mph. > > > > Anyway I think this will do for starters I'm off to the spares shop to get > > a new steering wheel as mine is sheeding black gunk all over my hands on > > the way to work!! What you can try is to get an old knife and really scrape all this sticky crud off the surface -- an amalgam of decaying plastic and years of finger goozie -- until you get down to hard plastic. Sand it down smooth. Buy a 2-pack polyurothane(sp) black paint at yr hardware store. Give it 3-4 coats: letting dry in between and light sand down. Dries as hard as nails and looks like its brand new. Did mine back in '85 and still looks immaculate after daily use. Costs only a few readies and easily done over a weekend. (You can also get different colours --- howzabout a Dayglo Orange Series II steering wheel?!!) Cheers, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 09:27:59 1994 From: phile@stpaul.gov (Philip J Ethier) Subject: Landrover crash (fwd) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 08:35:11 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1167 Status: RO I Forwarded this message from british-cars: --------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 13:47:29 BST From: bryan@roborough.gpsemi.COM (Duncan Bryan) To: british-cars@autox.team.net Subject: Landrover crash Hello Landrover fans, A friend of mine told me about his land rover driving friends recent accident. He skidded on an oil patch and consequently drove straight through a dry stone wall at 50 mph. His SWB landrover demolished the wall, hit a BIG rut and turned over (at about 25 ), ending up on one side. After climbing out he somehow managed to get the thing back on its wheels. OK the windscreen had gone and the wings were a bit mangled, and the cab roof was worse for wear. He got back in, turned the key.. it started. He drove it to his usual bodywork garage who told him that the chassis was still straight and that only a few panels needed replacing. Total cost < 200 pounds. The moral of the tale is, if you want to drive through 2 foot thick dry stone walls and still use the vehicle afterwards then buy a landrover. This same friend used to go sledging in his Austin Princess ( 1982) but that's a different story. Happy wall smashing. Duncan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 10:18:10 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 14:58:08 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: 88" sIII Questions Priority: normal Status: RO > I've got a 21 year old SIII 88" 2.25l petrol landy that I bought a couple > of weeks ago and have a couple of questions for other SWB owners. > > Has anyone got 750 tyres on their SWB, is this possible? I would like > to do this to make the gearing higher and improve the fuel consumption. Can't comment except that the effect of fuel consumption by switching tyres will probably only be measurable over many, many miles: extended payback. Switching tyres on a Landie seems to be attractive only for specific applications (eg. lot of off-road work, beach\sand, etc.) What might be interesting is to fit a set of conventional light truck tyres -- reduced rolling resistance = better petrol consumption. (Akin to fitting "slicks" on a mountain bike in place of "knobblies".) > > Fuel consumption: Does anyone have a feel for the improvements with > free wheeling hubs, larger tyres, overdrive? I'm getting about 15mpg on > a commuting cycle at the moment. 15mpg is about right for this unit in urban commuting. The best I've ever got in my SWB 2.25l was around 22-23mpg -- steady 45-47mph, no headwind, over very flat stretch of motorway. Free-wheeling hubs are, in my view, a sensible addition to improve fuel economy -- one certainly seems to rev the engine less and for shorter periods when they are disengaged and when pulling away up to cruising speed -- definite reduced engine load. (Akin to air conditioner "off" versus "on".) Overdrive -- probably very good if yr vehicle does a fair bit of long range cruising on paved surfaces, but no personal experience. > > Has anyone set up a sleeping arrangement with a board over the passenger > seat? I know you'll all laugh and say if you want to sleep in it buy a 109 > but I'm only thinking of this for very rare (emergency) situations. Hammock: fitted diagonally across the cab and loadbed. Foot end attached to the front corner in the top angle of the passenger door and windscreen; head end into the opposite angle aft. Works sweet with a hard-top roof, rolls up into a small space, and jolly comfortable --- short arses only tho!! Cheers, Keith Coman > > What is the usual top speed people are able to obtain on motorway driving > with reasonable comfort? > > Anyway I think this will do for starters I'm off to the spares shop to get > a new steering wheel as mine is sheeding black gunk all over my hands on > the way to work!! > > Cheers, > > Rob Meredith. > * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 11:20:22 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 10:25:09 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > I'm interested in knowing what kind of gas milage people are getting in 109s > with 2.25 petrol engines, and what carb they are using. The 109 seems to get a bit better than fifteen to the gallon & is using a weber carb. Michel Bertrand recently checked his 109 pu and it was averaging about seventeen on the highway with a newly rebuilt engine & weber carb. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 10:36:45 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 08:29:27 MST From: DEBROWN@srp.gov To: Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Air bag experiences??? Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist AM/FM - PAB204 X-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Air bag experiences??? A friend of mine is doing some research on air bags, and I thought I'd help him out by asking for responses from anyone that has had the opportunity to have one employed. Please answer the following if you have: 1. Do you believe that it prevented you further injury? 2. Do you believe that it saved your life? 3. Were you injured by the air bag itself? 4. Given a choice, would you opt to have one in the vehicle you currently drive. (if you don't already have one.) 5. Any other comments on air bags, good or bad. Please respond to me at... debrown@srp.gov Thanks, *** **** **** "Some men see things as they are and say why? * * * * * I see things as they never were and say why not?" * **** **** *** * * * -Robert Frost From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 10:20:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 88" sIII Questions Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:10:59 UNDEFINED Status: RO >> Has anyone set up a sleeping arrangement with a board over the passenger >> seat? I know you'll all laugh and say if you want to sleep in it buy a 109 >> but I'm only thinking of this for very rare (emergency) situations. > Hammock: fitted diagonally across the cab and loadbed. Foot end >attached to the front corner in the top angle of the passenger door >and windscreen; head end into the opposite angle aft. Works sweet >with a hard-top roof, rolls up into a small space, and jolly >comfortable --- short arses only tho!! Or sunlounger running along the sideboxes adn over the bulkhead fits nicely down the driver's side (so you dont need to move it to drive, just fold up the head section adn it doesnt obscure your rear vision). I'll be doing this game soon. Moving out of teh flat, and cant be bothered with the hassle renting somewhere else. We have some really beautiful laybys up in the hills.......... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 10:22:30 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 88" sIII Questions Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:15:33 UNDEFINED Status: RO >> > What is the usual top speed people are able to obtain on motorway driving >> > with reasonable comfort? My 90 n/a deisel did 85mph flat out on the stock Avon Traction Mileage 6.50s. I fitted the 205 radials to get better fule consumption. The fuel consumption went up from 31mpg to, er 31mpg!! The top speed dropped to about 65mph! But the Avons wore out in 15k, the radials have 30k on and still 10mm of tread!!! I cruise at 50 to be gentle to the engine. It'll hold 50 up most places. 88s'd do much the same? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 11:13:27 1994 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: Landrover crash (fwd) Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:20:38 UNDEFINED Status: RO > The moral of the tale is, if you want to drive through 2 foot thick >dry stone walls and still use the vehicle afterwards then buy a landrover. A while ago, there was a smash on a fast A road on Anglesey. One of teh local farmers had done the usual Anglesey trick of pulling out from a sideroad without it occurring to him that there might be anything else on the road....... The else was a Volvo doing about 60mph. The Landrover (a 110 van) was severely dented. Looked like a good few hours with a hammer and paintbrush to make it look nice again. The Volvo was only recognisable as such from the turret backwards. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 12:26:07 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 17:25:43 UNDEFINED Status: RO >> I'm interested in knowing what kind of gas milage people are getting in 109s >> with 2.25 petrol engines, and what carb they are using. > The 109 seems to get a bit better than fifteen to the gallon & is > using a weber carb. Michel Bertrand recently checked his 109 pu > and it was averaging about seventeen on the highway with a newly > rebuilt engine & weber carb. Havent got one myself, being a tightfisted Yorkshire-bred skinflint. But folk reckon that you'll get 22mpg with an overdrive, a Weber, free-wheel hubs and road tyres. These are Proper British Gallons and Proper British Miles. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 12:34:22 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 09:35:11 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Fairey Overdrive Status: RO Has anyone installed a Fairey Overdrive in a Series III 88. I am considering having one installed and have several questions. 1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than the transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? >> I've had one in mine for 2 years...no problem. 2. How much work and modification is required? Does it just bolt into the power takeoff hole or is extensive modification required? >> You got it. You need to cu a hole in the ttanny tunnel >> for the linkage. 3. How much does it change the gearing. In other words can I cruise at 60 MPH with approximately the same engine RPMs that I now experience at 45 - 50 mph. >> I think it something like 22%. >> In general, I'd be hard to live without an O/D once you had one. >> GO FOR IT!!! >> Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 13:02:45 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 13:41:32 EDT From: "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" To: "75126.1123@compuserve.com"@decpa.enet.dec.com Cc: lro@stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Subject: RE: Fairey Overdrive Status: RO Keith >Has anyone installed a Fairey Overdrive in a Series III 88. I am >considering having one installed and have several questions. I did this last winter on a IIA and sent an account of the procedure to the net for hopeful eventual inclusing in the FAQ. This should be applicable... >1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than >the transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? Well, as a new piece of equipment, it *doesn't* leak oil. I've heard that they begin to experience serious wear at 50-60K miles but I can't say from personal experience... >2. How much work and modification is required? Does it just bolt >into the power takeoff hole or is extensive modification required? I'll forward the details. On the IIA (and I assume on the III), you remove a backing plate, bearing, and transfer gear from the back of the transfer box and, more or less, bolt this on in place. Need a hole in the transmission tunnel for the gear shift. And some diddling for the shift linkage. >3. How much does it change the gearing. In other words can I cruise >at 60 MPH with approximately the same engine RPMs that I now experience >at 45 - 50 mph. Again, I'll answer for the IIA since I don't have the III rations at hand. You can, however, infer the ratio from the following: 4th gear normal: ~15 mph/1000 rpms 4th gear OD: ~19.8 mpg/1000 rpms I do 65 on the highway with an occasional jaunt over 70 though the vibration gets to be a bit much at that speed. monty From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 15:31:56 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 13:22:14 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: RE: Fairey Overdrive X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 3330 Status: RO > > >Has anyone installed a Fairey Overdrive in a Series III 88. I am > >considering having one installed and have several questions. Here's some of my old mail on this subject, well worth what you paid: When I bought my overdrives several years ago, the general opinion was that the Toro unit was better than the factory approved, Fairey overdrive, because the Toro holds more oil and is less subject to overheating. I have not heard anything that changes this theory, and have had no trouble with my Toro. Which ever you choose, I think you will discover that oil "pumps" from the transfer case to the overdrive and then blows all over the rear window. This can be overcome by running a tube from the O/D overflow plug to the transfer case overflow plug. Or, connecting the air vents of the O/D and transfer case with tube. When I first got my Rover, there was no sign of oil leaking from the swivel balls either, so I didn't check it right away, and, that's right, there was no oil in them to leak out. I soon learned how to replace wheel bearings and stub axles. and I have had a Toro overdrive on my '64 SIIa-88" for about four years and 40K miles. ELEPHINO has been over the Sierra Nevadas many times in blizzards and sub zero tempretures and on many Black Rock Desert trips trough sand, mud in 115 F temps. carrying; two weeks supplies, four full Jerry cans, my Air Camping tent, me, wife and three kids, and the dog. No problem. When I first installed the OD the oil was "pumping" out of the transfer case into the OD. This was discovered when I found 90 weight oil sprayed on the rear after runs on the freeway. The OD was getting full and pushing oil out the vent hole. I installed a drain tube from the OD to the transfer case by just replacing the oil level check plugs with hose barbs connected with a length of 3/8" fuel hose. This was in place for about a year and several adventures. On one of the desert trips after a long run on the hyway I smelled HOT 90 weight, so I stopped to check it out. The dip stick was missing from the OD and it was low on oil. I filled it up, made a plug for the hole and continued the trip. The oil had run into the transfer... down the tube, due to driving up and down steep hills in hot temps. The dip stick must have been blown out, as it was a snug fit with an "o" ring. This occurrence made me think that the oil wasn't pumping but was being forced by air pressure from the transfer to the OD. I removed the "drain tube" and installed a vent tube between the OD and the transfer case and the atmosphere. This has been on for three years and now the oil in each section stays there. The vent tube is up high and I can install a cap for very deep wading. I disagree that the Toro is a kludge, The extra oil capacity is an advantage. Both brands of OD will give good service if they are kept full of oil. I suspect that many ODs have died because they have been run dry. I have the remains of two Toros that were given to me. Both are fried due to lack of oil. I hope to get one complete, working unit from this pile of parts, for my 88 PU. CONSUMER NOTICE: Because of the "Uncertainty Principle," It Is Impossible for the Consumer to Find Out at the Same Time Both Precisely Where This Product Is and How Fast It Is Moving. Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 13:48:07 1994 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: 27 Jul 94 18:27:52 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Fairey Overdrive Content-Type: Text Status: RO Keith, Re your Fairy Overdrive questions: >> 1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than the transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? >> Generally they are pretty reliable if treated with care. Use it only for top gear cruising. It's not strong enough to use with lower gears. The internal components are nowhere near as substantial as those of your main gearbox. The thrust bearing rollers are only slightly larger than the lead of a woodend pencil (those were what whent on one of mine). Change the oil as frequently as that of the engine. It doesn't hold much and it's the only way to purge condensation sludge or water ingestation (if you wade at all). >> 2. How much work and modification is required? Does it just bolt into the power takeoff hole or is extensive modification required? >> The unit itself just bolts onto the back of the transfer. There are a couple of nuts that need to be threaded before you seat the OD all the way in, so don't tighten any nuts until all are threaded on the studs. The hardest part is to cut the hole for the engagement lever in the right spot. Start with a small hole, then enlarge it until you get it right. >> 3. How much does it change the gearing. In other words can I cruise at 60 MPH with approximately the same engine RPMs that I now experience at 45 - 50 mph. >> The OD reduces your gearing by 15%. It does make a difference in engine noise on the highway. Much more pleasant. If you want the OD to save gas, payback will take a while unless you do really serious mileage. If you want quieter more relaxed cruising, go for it. Rovers North seems to have the best price at the moment. Bill Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 14:33:27 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 15:11:24 EDT From: "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" To: lro@stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Fairey Overdrive Status: RO Bill Maloney writes: >>> >1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than the >transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? >>> > >Generally they are pretty reliable if treated with care. Use it only for top >gear cruising. It's not strong enough to use with lower gears. The internal >components are nowhere near as substantial as those of your main gearbox. >The thrust bearing rollers are only slightly larger than the lead of a >woodend pencil (those were what whent on one of mine). Change the oil as >frequently as that of the engine. It doesn't hold much and it's the only way >to purge condensation sludge or water ingestation (if you wade at all). I think I'll have to disagree with the top gear cruising remark above. Unlike other overdrive units, this device is not an on/off unit but a full-blown, two-speed synchromesh transmission. It has a mainshaft fed from the interior spline, a layshaft, and output shaft that drives the exterior gear that mates with the middle transfer gear, and a proper fork selector, synchros, etc. Torque is *always* transmitted through the overdrive unit and onto the layshaft so the above, which would apply to, say, an MG overdrive, doesn't apply to the LR. Another benefit I forgot to mention in my original mail... If you have a IIA transmission, you can avoid having to do a double-declutch downshift into second. (A process made difficult by the fact that the 2.25l engine will mostly ignore a throttle 'blip'...) Put the OD into neutral, quickly select second, re-engage the OD. Will not grind the gears, though it does make a very positive 2nd gear engagement. Realize that the OD's synchros *are* doing work so this isn't a complete win.... monty From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 16:00:23 1994 To: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> Cc: , mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Fairey Overdrive In-Reply-To: Your message of "27 Jul 1994 08:46:08 EDT." <940727124607_75126.1123_FHD51-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 13:48:31 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO >Has anyone installed a Fairey Overdrive in a Series III 88. I am >considering having one installed and have several questions. > >1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than >the transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? > >2. How much work and modification is required? Does it just bolt >into the power takeoff hole or is extensive modification required? > >3. How much does it change the gearing. In other words can I cruise >at 60 MPH with approximately the same engine RPMs that I now experience >at 45 - 50 mph. > >Thanks > >Keith Steele >75126,1123@compuserve.com >'72 Series III 88 since new Keith, I just installed the Fairey unit 3 months ago on my 72 Ser lll. In a word, wonderful. It makes the car a true highway driveable machine. I used to be winding upwards of 3200-3500 RPM and only be going 52-55 MPH. Of course that was going downhill, on the staight and level, 50 tops, uphill forget it, maybe 40. Now add 15 MPH to all the above with overdrive and you get the idea. It now cruises comfortably at 65 MPH and gets 17 MPG with the WARN hubs disengaged. It was EXTREMELY easy to install, unbolt the PTO cover, bolt on the overdrive. The most time consuming part was properly locating, marking, and cutting out the hole for the shift lever in the transmission tunnel. Reliable is all in how you treat it. Change the gear oil semi regularly, and only use it in 3rd and 4th gear, should be bullet proof. Rgds Mike Fredette 72 Ser lll 88 Portland, Or. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 17:45:48 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:38:23 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Fairey Overdrive Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO >Has anyone installed a Fairey Overdrive in a Series III 88. I am >considering having one installed and have several questions. > >1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than >the transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? > >2. How much work and modification is required? Does it just bolt >into the power takeoff hole or is extensive modification required? > >3. How much does it change the gearing. In other words can I cruise >at 60 MPH with approximately the same engine RPMs that I now experience >at 45 - 50 mph. > I have installed one for another owner and found that the directions and templates or whatever led me to cut the hole for the shift lever in slightly the wrong place. I had to "oval" the hole and then make an escutcheon to cover the goof. Otherwise it was pretty easy. My friend is quite happy with it as are most others I have known who have had them. At least two of the owners that have had the Fairey overdrives installed for awhile split-shift in all gears and don't seem to have had problems as a result. One concern that I would have about installing any overdrive is that I recently read (I'm not sure where) that, due to the fact that the drive will always go through an extra set of gears, there is potential for more slop in the drivetrain. Always a problem with mine but, if your Land-Rover is fresh and tight, it should work fine. Good luck! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 18:24:17 1994 To: "John R. Benham" Cc: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: All British Field Meet In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 27 Jul 1994 15:19:20 +1100." <285EE2C09C4@wfoclan.usbm.gov> Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 16:03:44 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO John, Portland All British Field Meet The Field Meet is indeed on Labor Day weekend and this year is special. For the first time, Rover/Land Rover is the featured marque, much to the disgust of the Jaguar folks. The Pacific Coast Rover club is helping host this with the aim at putting together the largest gathering of Land Rover products in the country. Bottom line we're telling everyone is, if it says Rover/Land Rover/Range Rover on it, bring it. Running or not, bring it. We have received permission to camp out Sat night at the Field meet, there will be demonstrations of the new Disco and Defender on a driving/wading course set up on the grounds. Ex-Camel Trophy competitors will be on hand to show off or sign autographs or other silly whatevers. The Starbirds, Tony and Linda, will be hosting thier traditional barbeque at thier fantistic farm overlooking the valley. The swap meet will hopefully be filled with Landy goodies etc. Basically, it's going to a Land Rover smorgasborg, tons of fun for any self respecting 90 weight lover. As I said, if you've got a Rover product, better try and make this rally. Rgds Mike Fredette 72 Ser lll 88 (not for long) Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 19:13:39 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 20:07:11 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO For those following my pinion nut/leaking new rear diff nightmare: First off, thanks to those who made suggestions. Several of you suggested just heating it. Steve Denis made comment of a yoke that was an available bit, and a couple of others suggested just making one up or "shibing" one. (For those of you from forein soils, the terms shibing, or shibe, or shibish, or any derivation thereof, all stem from the infamous auto painter, the late Earl Shibe, who would paint your car for twenty bucks, but wouldn't use masking tape. Lets just say you'd get what you paid for.) One netter, Steve (?) from Hessen (??), seconded and thereby confirmed my suspicion that I could brace a breaker bar up against the rear leafspring, throw it into front wheel drive (rear prop off), and edge forward. The yoke trick failed me- managed to make up a good "do-it-earl" tool, got plenty of torque on it, used my legs on the yoke and my arms on the nut, all with two two-plus foot long bars on each, pulled, strained, grunted, and got a wicked cramp in my calves. Was outa propane on the torch, got edgy, and went for the brace it up against the spring method. Worked first try, no problem, no slamming, bashing, or four letter words uttered. Guess Nige is a much better man than I. The sad story is, that even after replacing the seal, the gasket on the retainer, and putting the prop shaft back on, the damned thing *STILL* leaks. I am baffled. Drove through deep grass to clean it all off, jacked up the rear, threw it in fourth, ran it awhile, looked underneath-no leak. Take it for a drive-leak city. You might think it easy to tell just where the leak is coming from, but the entire rear diff is dripping wet. Sounds dumb, I know, and as though any fool could fix it, but this fool hasn't (yet). Don't think it is coming from the housing-casing mating surface (went through that awhile ago-the gasket was *completely* dry when I took it apart and resealed with permatex just in case), absolutely NOT coming from the breather (it's the only dry spot there!), nor the hub seals (no "spokes"). Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe the leak is coming from the filler spout- the copper ring could be hanging up on the lip, but does not appear to be doing this by close visual inspection. Then there is always the chance that I've got a hairline crack in this thing somewhere. Dixon suggested I should attach it to a buoy, sink it in Lake Champlain, and tell RN where they can find it! (no, no, I *am* making this up, and have nothing at all against our pals in Westford, Vt.) We shall overcome, rd/that leaking nige thing. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 19:20:15 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 20:14:26 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO > Has anyone got 750 tyres on their SWB, is this possible? I would like > to do this to make the gearing higher and improve the fuel consumption. > > Fuel consumption: Does anyone have a feel for the improvements with > free wheeling hubs, larger tyres, overdrive? I'm getting about 15mpg on > a commuting cycle at the moment. Nigel (a '60 SII 88) has 7.50 x 16 Michelin Radials all about, Fairey OD, Warn Hubs (ie all of the above), Roach-ester carb. He cranks. Keeps up with NYC commuter traffic no problem (so long as we are on a flat or heading downhill). I think only Monty will keep up with him. Speedo is surely off with the high profile tyres, and Nige has pegged it on occasion, but is more comfortable at lower speeds (like 60-65, indicated). Since fixing the wheel wobble problem (Railko bushes) I have no qualms about running with the Lexus and Beemer crowd (just don't ask me to stop!....now knowing that he'll cut straight through rock walls and volvos I feel even more confident in the strength of his stride, but I s'poze I shouldn't let it get to my head). Mileage? What I gained in mileage I gave up to top speed.....I get in the 12-17 range, depending on just what me and Nige do after work. If we trotted instead of cantered about, I am sure we'd blow through the 17 mark, maybe even hit 20 (ya right). IMHO, the biggest advantage of ODs is that you basically get an extra gear in between all the others and then one more on top. Makes for interesting driving. You'll find that uphills are more fun to navigate than downhills....first, second, second OD, third, third OD, fourth-oops, third OD, crest the hill, fourth OD, etc. You may even want to become a trucker after working one. Forget about the gas savings...you will blow it just like I do (on more speed-ie just keeping up with traffic). You will get where you are going slightly faster (what is it, 15-22% or so?) than you would otherwise. > Has anyone set up a sleeping arrangement with a board over the passenger > seat? I know you'll all laugh and say if you want to sleep in it buy a 109 > but I'm only thinking of this for very rare (emergency) situations. I have dreams and plans but nothing built just yet. I am thinking along the lines of the 3 chuncks of plywood that someone else mentioned. Would like to maintain relatively free access to the rear bed, set aside a space for tools and bits, and have the front piece (which would cover the passenger seat and a little more) hinged to the rear section, with some sort of hangers that could attach to the top of the dash for front support (oh, but you got a SIII-sorry, won't work). Ideally, the driver should still be able to drive while a passenger snoozes (assuming they can take the bumps without waking up-I can NO problem, I can sleep anywhere- EXCEPT in a hammock! Good place to rest, though, but I wouldn't want to spend a week in one (have before-never again)). But, if this is only for emergency situations, you could always curl up in the front seat or the rear bed if you had to. I once spent the night in the front of an 88 *with* a friend, in sub-US-zero temperatures, and we survived. Heck, wasn't even an emergency. I was a little shorter then, though. > Anyway I think this will do for starters I'm off to the spares shop to get > a new steering wheel as mine is sheeding black gunk all over my hands on > the way to work!! The patented Mike Rooth brasso/lemon pledge method works fine, for a time. I'd paint mine if I were more ambitious, but I might get carried away and paint the whole thing. and Nige wouldn't be Nige without the flakey paint job. chow, rd/danige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 19:27:29 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Land Rover 4 Sale Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 17:20:38 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO OK folks, Don't let this happen to you. There is a disease out there amongst us, the UK folk have been exposed longer so they've built up an immunity to it that the rest of us don't have. Defender 90itis. This disease takes only a few minutes of exposure to be fatal. I made the mistake of taking the demonstrator Defender 90 from the local dealer for the day. A big expensive mistake. It took a hot 15 minutes to fall in lust for this car. Mind you it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it sure comes close if you like Landies. So, I took the employee profit sharing check, sold some stock, sold my 3 month old son Mitchell, and worst, my Land Rover, and came up with a down payment that makes me retch to think about, but keeps the monthlies to a manageable level. It's Coniston Green and I pick it up on Friday, and I can't stop grinning. I watched what Doug Shipman can do with one on some of the same trails we had our Northwest Challenge on. We went out last weekend and it was truly amazing what this vehicle can do. It doesn't do anything my old Landy can't do, it just makes it a LOT easier to do it. Anyway, to business. It's kind of like shooting your own dog, nobody else can do it, so here goes. 72 SER lll Land Rover 88 Tan in color,WARN winch,WARN hubs,Fairey overdrive(new),lamp guards front and rear,rear mud flaps,new seat cushions,90 style cubby box with my 89 Range Rover's casette,CB radio,seats and belts for 7 idiots,Weber carb,new brakes,new brake hydraulics,new clutch hydraulics,new battery,new tires 235/75 15 on 5 newly painted rims,new alternator, new distributor,all new hoses,military style pintle hitch and tow shackles,new swivel pins,new universal joints,new hub seals all around,new seals everywhere I could find a leak ie. everywhere,new rear axles,new spring bushings all around,interior is just about perfecet,exterior has a few dents but don't they all. Door seals don't leak water, neither do the vents, new spare front grill, tailgate for those that prefer to go topless, spare standard towing jaw assy, couple spare swivel pins and other bits. I swear on whatever, that it only has one 90 weight leak now, transfer case to tranny junction. Too hard to get at easily.The engine runs perfectly, NO leaks, burning a quart of oil per 400 miles or so. The heater heats, the wipers wipe(at both speeds no less), the blinkers blink etc. If it's electrical it works. The clutch is in great shape, smooth with no jumping, the transmission/transfer is also in great shape, no nasty noises, all synchros smooth, no jumping out gear. A small spot of rust on the rear crossmember at the drain holes that has been fixed, rest of the frame and bulkhead is fine.I've done all the above to it in the last twelve months, getting it to the point where it's great to drive every day, then Land Rover sent the Pestilence over to North America. Those in the Pacific Northwest know Doug Shipman's reputation as an honest Land Rover lunatic. 503 252 5566 and he can give an opinion on my truck that is trustworthy. I'm asking 6000 US for it or the best offer I get between now and the end of August which is when the thieves at Rassmussen Range Rover want the thier pound of flesh. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com 503 696 8037 office 503 645 4034 home Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 23:48:21 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 21:41:21 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@stratus.com From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: land rovers and africa Status: RO >From the August 1994, National Geographic, stolen for the amusement of Land Rover addicts: Qoute- The lions became totally at ease with our ragtag vehicle--its doors and roof removed to accomodate tripods and allow easy exit in an emergency. Its frame has been bashed by elephants. It once nearly carried us into the hereafter when we followed lions across a small brush fire. Picking our way over glowing red coals was eerie, like driving on Mars. Suddenly we looked at each other--we both smelled fuel. I hit the brakes, luckily stopping in an area free of flames and coals. A stump had disconnected the gas line in the undercarriage. We fixed it and drove on. unqoute. My wife read the above passage and proclaimed "THESE ARE LAND ROVER PEOPLE !!". Any doubt that they were driving a Land Rover? From the little bits of email I bring home printed out, she's decided that Land Rover people are a whole lot more fun than the Sunbeam Tiger club members. She's even gone so far as to say we could fly to portland and buy the 88 recently advertised and drive it home. I just don't know how I got so lucky; she agreed to the purchase of a Sunbeam Tiger, a car with no heater in the winter and a blast furnace in the summer, and now is willing to go along with a Land Rover! Some guys have all the luck :-) !. While I'm posting, I want to say that I checked a book out of the Davis library about east african wildlife. The book was definitely geared for people who intend to travel there, loaded with pictures and useful information. It also had pistures of Land Rovers. One was a green short wheel base with 2 cheetahs on the hood and two people (standing up through a hole in the roof) snapping photos of them. The second was a picture of two 4 door 109s driving down a dirt road. Also in this book is a photo of (I think) a convertible volkswagen bug driving on the most incredible RED dirt road. Greenish yellow grass is on each side and the road is fresh iron oxide red/orange. The car is quite away and small so it could be something else, but I don't think it's a rover. Bye for now, john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 00:36:14 1994 Date: Wed, 27 Jul 1994 22:25:27 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: azw@aber.ac.uk, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 Status: RO > But teh 88 is more nimble offroad; and makes a > far better towing platform - which is why all the farmers go for em. Why is it that the 88 is better for towing? My sister, the horse fiend seems to think that bigger is better for towing. (Like the Chevy Suburban which is simply huge.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 03:43:18 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 09:34:01 UNDEFINED Status: RO >> But teh 88 is more nimble offroad; and makes a >> far better towing platform - which is why all the farmers go for em. >Why is it that the 88 is better for towing? My sister, the horse fiend >seems to think that bigger is better for towing. (Like the Chevy Suburban >which is simply huge.) The maximum towing weight for teh 88 is 4 tons. For teh 109, it's 3 1/2 tons. Probably partly cos the 109 is heavier to start with, so the engine/gearbox cant take so muh extra weight, but mainly cos the hitch is so far behind teh rear axle, so the steering is really screwed up by anything that increased the noseweight of teh trailer (like braking, for instance). With the 88, the hitch is pretty much on the rear axle, so there is no leverage worth a damn. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 21:20:13 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Landrover crash To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 12:05:55 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > I Forwarded this message from british-cars: > --------------- > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 13:47:29 BST > From: bryan@roborough.gpsemi.COM (Duncan Bryan) > To: british-cars@autox.team.net > Subject: Landrover crash > > Hello Landrover fans, > > A friend of mine told me about his land rover driving friends > recent accident. > > He skidded on an oil patch and consequently drove > straight through a dry stone wall at 50 mph. His SWB landrover demolished > the wall, hit a BIG rut and turned over (at about 25 ), ending up on one > side. > > After climbing out he somehow managed to get the thing back on its > wheels. OK the windscreen had gone and the wings were a bit mangled, > and the cab roof was worse for wear. He got back in, turned the key.. > it started. He drove it to his usual bodywork garage who told him > that the chassis was still straight and that only a few panels needed > replacing. Total cost < 200 pounds. > > The moral of the tale is, if you want to drive through 2 foot thick > dry stone walls and still use the vehicle afterwards then buy a landrover. > > This same friend used to go sledging in his Austin Princess ( 1982) > but that's a different story. > > Happy wall smashing. > > Duncan > > A few years back, I saw 110 v8 that had hit concreate bridge head on at 100 kph. From behind the bulkhead, the vehicle was fine, and the driver walked away with a fractured hip. I would not have like the guys chances had he been in any other brand of four wheel drive, if he was, I think he would have had a little more than a fractured hip. Also in LRO a while back, they had a story of how a Canadian learned to stop is 109 from 40MPH to 0 in 6 inches, when he hit a power poll. The snaped, and as he hit strait on one of the dumb irons, the vehicle only needed a little chassie straitening, and a new radiator and the vehicle was fine again. The only thing that I like to stop my Series 1 with is brakes, which needed 4 pumps last I drove it in February, I think it needs new drums shoes, and could probably do with some new snails, and a couple of brake lines, and the master cylinder might need over hauling, other than that the brakes are fine! Also a question to owners of 2.25 diesels, how long do you generally need to glow the motor, and did it need glowing longer just after a rebuild? ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Jul 27 21:23:00 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: Fairy Overdrive To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 12:11:47 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > Has anyone installed a Fairey Overdrive in a Series III 88. I am > considering having one installed and have several questions. > > 1. How reliable is it. Is it any more prone to problems than > the transmission/transfer case already installed in the Series III? > > 2. How much work and modification is required? Does it just bolt > into the power takeoff hole or is extensive modification required? > > 3. How much does it change the gearing. In other words can I cruise > at 60 MPH with approximately the same engine RPMs that I now experience > at 45 - 50 mph. > > Thanks > > Keith Steele > 75126,1123@compuserve.com > '72 Series III 88 since new > > My parents Series III wagon had an over drive. It worked fine with the 2.6, but only lasted a couple of months when they (stupidly IMHO) put a 3.3l nissan diesel in, this just made the bearings in the overdrive and the main shaft of the gear box, absolutely shit them selves. I have also been warned that they should only be used as and overdrive, and not to use them inbetween gears. But if you spend most of your time on the road, why not just get a set of 4.1:1 high speed diffs. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 00:49:49 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: 88 vs 109 To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 15:37:05 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > > > But teh 88 is more nimble offroad; and makes a > > far better towing platform - which is why all the farmers go for em. > > Why is it that the 88 is better for towing? My sister, the horse fiend > seems to think that bigger is better for towing. (Like the Chevy Suburban > which is simply huge.) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > > This is easy. It is way easier to back a trailer with a shortie, than a long wheel base, as the shortie is more manovurable(spelling?). I have got so used to backing my 86" that I am absolutly hopeless at backing anything longer, even small cars! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Soon!) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 07:43:57 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: For all you rugged lorrycampers....... Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 13:20:09 UNDEFINED Status: RO Not actually anything to do with lorries. But since you're all discussing camping in em, this might be interesting -------------------------------------------------------------- Buddy Burners:- A simple and cheap cooking method is the buddy_burner (I guess this would be another use for it too?) The is simply a strip of cardboard box rolled up and taped into a short fat cylinder (maybe 1inch high) and soaked in candle wax, paraffin wax, old margerine, diesel, etc,etc. Alternatively, the whiole thing can be made inside an old tuna can, or the tuna can can be filled about 1/4 inch with inflamably stuff, and a paper towel put in as a wick. All variations on a theme. Four 6inch nails driven into the ground around this make a pan rest. Or you can use it as a quick and convenient heat source in a hobostove or an Osborne stove. ====================================================================== The Hobo Stove:- Take a gallon paint can (exact size not important - experiment) Cut holes in sides of can as below:- 00---- 0 \ 0 O | O / | O /_______ WIND 0 O \ 0 / \ 00---- 000 = Hole at top of can OOO = Hole at bottom of can. Chuck anything combustible in, and sprinkle a couple of drops of petrol in the bottom hole ( Non-lazybuggers can of course do this without petrol!!), and light it up. Put a pan directly on the top of the can withput the can lid (unless you are very fussy about carbon deposits on your pan) for maximum heat transfer. Or to bake, put lid on can, and baking receptacle on lid. The wind blows it the bottom hole, and the aerodynamics of the can suck the exhaust out of the top holes. This forms a vicious thru draught, and the fire burns almost white hot in a strong wind! It also uses very little fuel. Fire temperature can be controlled be turning can away from the wind a bit, or by obstructing the inlet hole. These things are unbeleivably effective, dirt-cheap and fun to make. You can easily make one on the fly with a Swiss Army knife and a tin you pick up. You will probably find yourself making lots of different designs just for the hell of it!! They are also useful in that you can burn up your camp rubbish to cook your next meal! ====================================================================== The Osborne stove:- (Frank Osborne - a motorcycle camper, contributed the source article for this synopsis to an American motorcycle magazine) This is made from 4 sheets of metal (scrap ally, drink cans flattened,etc) wired together at the corners to form a square or rectangle. About 7ins across by 5ins deep is fine, but can be varied ad nauseam. A couple of grills are added as below:- A side cutaway would be:- ----------------------------------------- Pan grill | | | | | | | | | ------------------------------------- | Fuel grill | 0 0 | Support wires | | | | | | The fuel grill is supported about 2-3 ins from the top of the stove on a couple of wires thru holes drilled in two opposite sides of the stove. Charcoal fired up on here gives a long lasting fire suitable for the camp. Wood and/or paper gives a quick fire suitable for trail brewups. The airflow under the grill gives very efficient combustion. With charcoal as fuel, burgers etc can just be placed straight on the pan grill and barbecued direct. The whole thing folds flat for carrying. ========================================================================== Comparison of stoves:- I made my Osborne out of scrap aluminium, slightly modified from the standard plan, to form a square of 7inch base and 5inch height. Also, I only hinged 3 of the four corners, so the stove wall was not a floppy parallellogram, but a floppy strip. The square construction allows it to pack smaller (longest side only rather than longest+shortest), and the floppy strip idea allows it to be used as a variable geometry portable firepit as well as a classic Osborne (of which more later). The Osborne, running on half a fill of charcoal (about 10p [10cents]) ran for 2 hours. It took 15minutes to fire up properly after priming with a capful of meths, and the total E.T. to boil 1pt of water was 20 minutes. The next pint took 8 minutes with the stove already fired up. The idead of only hinging 3 sides gives you a flap with which you can open or close to alter the windflow thru the stove. I expect to be able to reduce the above times considderable when I can play with this effectively. So the Osborne is a great stove for the camp. You set it going with a charge of charcoal and it'll run all evening. (This is really convenient for purifying all tomorrows water from tonight's spring......) But the fire up time makes it useless running charcaol for a brew up by the trail. This is where the flexible firepit idea comes in. Just bend the strip into a shape you can put your pan on, chuck in anything combustible and you have a 5minute brewup. However, a hobo stove is better for this So. An Osborne is great in camp, but less so for brewups. It can do the latter but is less effective than a hobostove. The hobostove, however doesnt burn charcoal as efficiently as the Osborne. An Osborne packs flat and is very easily carried. A hobo doesnt, so you have to either pack it with stuff inside, or tie it to the outside of your sac. An Osborne needs construction in advance and needs a couple of items which will need to be looked for (grills, grill supports) and requires basic tools. The hobo can be knocked up out of any reasonably sized scrap tin in a couple of minutes with just a knife. Both are excellent little things, as effective (at least!) as a commercial stove, and cost next to nothing. They both do similar jobs but with slight differences in effectiveness. I reckon its worth playing with both and deciding which suits you best. I shall carry an Osborne if I am camping out for a few nights, and use a hobo on day trips. Both are fun. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 08:28:33 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: For all you rugged lorrycampers....... To: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 14:17:30 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Andy Woodward" at Jul 28, 94 1:20 pm Status: RO S1,11,and 11A owners need look no further for a grill.You carry all before you......Shame about the 111 and ninety/one tens,though:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 09:25:33 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 10:03:09 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rover Rally Status: RO Just got off the phone with Jin Allen who writes the "Stateside Beat" column for LRO Magazine. Seems LRO is going to pick up his airfare from Colorado to Virginia to do a piece on the rally. The big check arrived yesterday from the local LR dealership, so things are really starting to come together! Prizes! T-Shirts! Dash Plaques! (Dare I say it? Free Beer!) Jim said he is going to try to get coverage in one of the 'mainstream' 4X4 mags here in the US. The bluegrass band has been booked for Saturday night, and we get final figures from the caterer for the meal costs this weekend. The bulldozer arrives tomorrow to add a few 'challenges' (i.e., a suitable mud pit as the site is hilly uplands rather than Ontario mud). Mark and Company from Rovers North are coming, as is Bruce from British Rovers. (No word from ABP, though). I expect Chris "The Badger" Laws will be there as well. This is shaping up as the largest Land Rover gathering east of the Rockies this year...so don't miss it! If you are not on the mailing list and want to be, post a reply to the below address. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 09:49:39 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 10:33:47 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Land Rover 4 Sale In-Reply-To: <9407280020.AA19444@pdx242.intel.com> Status: RO Mike writes; > So, I took the employee profit sharing check, sold some stock, >sold my 3 month old son Mitchell, and worst, my Land Rover, and came up >with a down payment that makes me retch to think about, but keeps the >monthlies to a manageable level. It's Coniston Green and I pick it up on >Friday, and I can't stop grinning. I watched what Doug Shipman can do with You lucky, lucky dog!!! Congratulations Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 08:54:41 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 15:49:51 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: For all you rugged lorrycampers....... Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Priority: normal Status: RO > S1,11,and 11A owners need look no further for a grill.You carry all > before you......Shame about the 111 and ninety/one tens,though:-) > Cheers > Mike Rooth Ah, Yes!! And in the old days when Real Beer (tm) came in *bottles* with *crown corks* the lip underneath Series II's dashboard parcel shelf was purposely designed by a Heaven-praised Midlands draftsman (whose name is lost to history) in Rover's drawing office as a bullet-proof bottle opener ........ Thanks! Don't mind if I do -- same again for me, old chap.... Well...er, Cheers!! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 09:02:28 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 15:49:51 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: For all you rugged lorrycampers....... Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Priority: normal Status: RO > S1,11,and 11A owners need look no further for a grill.You carry all > before you......Shame about the 111 and ninety/one tens,though:-) > Cheers > Mike Rooth Ah, Yes!! And in the old days when Real Beer (tm) came in *bottles* with *crown corks* the lip underneath Series II's dashboard parcel shelf was purposely designed by a Heaven-praised Midlands draftsman (whose name is lost to history) in Rover's drawing office as a bullet-proof bottle opener ........ Thanks! Don't mind if I do -- same again for me, old chap.... Well...er, Cheers!! Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 11:33:39 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 27 Jul 94 23:27:39 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) writes: > Havent got one myself, being a tightfisted Yorkshire-bred skinflint. But folk > reckon that you'll get 22mpg with an overdrive, a Weber, free-wheel hubs and > road tyres. Overdrive is still in Boston (a year later, but should be installed at the Stowe British Invasion), one free wheeling hub is a major mess, the bia plys are approaching twenty five years old, so I think I can improve in the milage further. This weekend is replace the frot hub assemblies (from backing plates out) and get the little earth pig ready for the safety. Ted Rose and I got it running nicely last night, so time is the only factor now... :-) > These are Proper British Gallons and Proper British Miles. Is there any other measurements? Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 08:07:41 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com Subject: Digest Note / Administrivia / Billing LRO event Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 08:51:51 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Administrivia ------------- From 29 July to 10 August, I will be on holiday back in the states, during this time, should the list go nuclear, and start spewing messages or looping or something like that, then advise postmaster@stratus.com Include a message with the problem to speed up the resolution. Note: No SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE Requests will be performed during this period. Don't hassle the postmaster, 'cause he's a busy guy, and he's been very good to me (and to list). Digest Note ----------- Recently some entries have appeared with a trailing '[=]=20' at the end of the line, I've modified the digester script in an effort to remove these The following scripts have been modified to scan for and delete them. (sed '/[a-zA-Z]*=20$/ s/=20$//') If anyone does wish to enter text ending in =20, sorry bout that. Billing ------- Last weekend was the Billing "Land Rover Owner International Magazine" event, which was well attended by lots of L/R folks. It had a much larger commercial area than the AROC event, (AROC and various Series clubs were in attendance). All together, it had more of a 'commercial' feel to it. If you'd been to AROC and didn't find some bits there, it would be good to check out Billing for 'show specials' before paying full list. The setting, Billing Aquadrome, was crowded compared to the LROC at Derby. At Derby the camping areas and course stretched over the country side, where at Billing, even though the camping fields were quite large, it seems much more enclosed and more densly popluated. When I got there Saturday, I ran into Andrew, who I met at the BSROC tent at teh AROC in May. He had dropped into get some new sneakers for his 110" TDi, and I chatted with him for a few minutes, before he left. After veiwing the commercial area, I set out in search of Gunter & the green/aluminum 130" and Ludovico with his S.III. I never did see that 130". Hours later, I found Ludovico about 100 yards from the commercial area on the bank of a canal within sight fo the off road course. Ludovico invited me to go on the course with him, and we joined his friends Roberto and Max, who had also driven from Milan, in Roberto's 90" TDi. We set off and managed to gain entry, to the course and they let us in at 6pm. Ludovico drove the first lap, and he was very kind to let me drive on the second lap (Thanks again !). It was a lot of fun. [I didn't set any land speed records on that lap.] I did manage to get the bonnet a bit muddy, however, on the last lap, when Ludovico entered the mud pool, a wave crested at least a foot higher than the bonnect, washing over the front of the (formerly) Limestone S.III Very fine English dirt it was, as Ludovico reports that it was quite difficult to remove from his radiator, and even after the second washing, he couldn't go any faster than 80kph, due to reduced cooling. I discovered that this mud has a greater affinity for white cotton and managed to 'tan' whatever was washed with it... {Just what is the UK equivalent of non-clorine bleach ?} We had the dash vents closed, but when that wave of mud got to the end of the bonnet, it managed to leak in. Luckly, my camera bag was closed, and Ludovico's camera was still on the seat and it also was dry, so we just got a bit wet. The off road course was about ten minutes long, and wasn't as difficult (traction wise/slopes) as the L/R experience course (a subset of the CCVT course) at AROC-derby. It didn't have any side slopes, but it was quite twisted, requiring lots of wheel work. With a number of vehicles on-course at the same time, you'd get three go-rounds in your hour time slot. They'd close down loops of the course if someone got stuck (to keep traffic moving). The Billing course had lots of ascents & down-hills for low-1, engine-braking-low-2, lots of trees to avoid, along with a pretty straight-forward splash pool (most of the tows were wet electrics I think). There were some rough field tracks then on the second day they added a nice, sliperly rutted uphill section at the end, which got the better of a few drivers [as I witnessed a Disco getting pulled up by the S.III working there]. Word has it that a Frontera didn't negotiate the first (very vertical) decent, slipping sideways and was towed off course by a 90". When I got back, first thing Monday, I rang up Merseyside and ordered both foot boxes and doorposts, (#65.60 in parts and another #25.58 for VAT & shipping to Honslow), they arrived yesterday, and are now all ready to check-in with me when I head back to the states tomorrow. Off to see the Welder... -- Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 10:26:53 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 10:10:37 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Some Product info . . . . Status: RO For those of you interested in polyurethane bushes and/or coil spring conversions - I got this info and thought I would pass it along (hey a person's got to dream)! Bushes - RH Engineering Services The Meads Llechwedd Conwy Gwynedd LL32 8DX UK tel/fax (0492) 573320 They make Polybushes - a complete line of polyurethane bushes for the Land Rover/Range Rover. The bushes can be hand fitted and then you insert a tube in the middle which expands the bush and makes it stay in place. A complete set of spring/chassis bushings for a II, IIa, III (only the 88 for the III) is 90 pounds. The fitting tool is 12 pounds. Air Parcel post and insurance is around 24 pounds to the USA. They are looking for a reps in the US and I passed that on to British Rovers (just because I happened to be talking to him - no favoritism). I haven't used these bushes so I have no clue as to whether they are any good. Coil Spring Conversions - Arrow Services Unit 4 Churchill Rd. Doncaster DN1 2TF UK tel (0302) 341154 fax (0302) 341736 I didn't bother copying everything down they sent me - but I think what I did will give you an idea of what they do. For 88 Rolling Chassis with fully rebuilt LR90 axles Parts to be fitted New chrome steering balls, oil seals, bearings, and CV joints. Axle shafts checked. New brake discs and dust covers, calipers stripped and reconditioned. New brake hoses. All new bushes. New bump stops. New coil springs. New Shocks. New track rod and ball joints. New steering arm damper. New modified fuel tank Modified front drag link arm. New track rod ends. No diffs or wheels supplied. 2850 pounds plus VAT For 109 (same work as above) 3250 pounds other parts for above Conversion of front axle to LHD - 250 pounds Brake Servo Unit and dual braking (recommended) -90/110 servo with new dual circuit master cylinder, pedal and pedal box - 160 pounds. They also due some other stuff like 5 speed gearbox mountings and so on. That's it. Best- Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 16:01:18 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:00:08 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Overdrives, etc. Status: RO WRT the thread on overdirves, I installed the Fairey unit in 1977, about 120,000 miles ago. No problems at all. However, unlike some of the units that gain 90 wt., this unit loses it, cured somewhat by the use of Hi-Tach. Installed axle breathers in both transfer case and overdrive, but the trans still gains oil. When I start noticing spots on the rear door, I know its time to bleed a pint or two off the top. Da Nige hit 85!?! On the flats!? I *am* impressed! My best speed was only 77 mph (tail wind, coming down off the continental divide, engine off, in neutral, the so-called Mexican overdrive.) Running in 4th over, my '72 88 "settles in" at about 58 mph on the speedo. If you are running an export model 88" that was originally fitted with 15" tires, add about 7% for the 7.50 X 16's which equals 62 mph steady cruising. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 15:59:59 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 14:15:26 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Stone walls and Volvos Status: RO Consider the Land Rover. Sitting up there is like sitting in an impregnable fortress. Modern car design, particularly the current Volvo ads, tout that they are designed to absorb the impact of a collision instead of transferring it to the passengers. By comparison, the Land Rover was designed to make the other chap's car absorb the impact. As long as we are talking impact, some of our overseas netters might find this interesting. GM is working on a new 'concept car' for some time in the near future. Project name (no joke): "Impact" What, was "flaming-head-on-wreck" already taken? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 14:09:01 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 12:50:54 -0600 (MDT) From: Stevens Subject: 2.25 mileage To: LRO_List Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO FWIW, I just picked up a couple of old issues of Motor magazine, and quoting from the August 25, 1973 issue; Road Test Summary, pg 112 here is the mileage they acheived: Land Rover, 2286 cc..... Overall fuel (mpg) 16.3 Touring fuel (mpg) 17.8 And for fun, here's the other test info they provided. Max mph: 66.7 0-60 mph (sec) 27.4 30-50 mph (sec) 11.8** **in top gear -- Have fun. ================================================ /==============\ stevensh@cuug.ab.ca | | | Calgary, Alberta, Canada [|______|_______|] /___/^^^^^^\___\ have: '64 MGB roadster |(@) [####] (@)| want: LWB Land Rover | o [####] o | ======%%%%====== "Without a real car, I'm only {*}={&&}====={*} half a man." -Dean Jones {*} {*} "The Love Bug" ================================================ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 14:22:01 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 94 12:12:23 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: azw@aber.ac.uk, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: For all you rugged lorrycampers....... Status: RO In message Andy Woodward writes: > Not actually anything to do with lorries. But since you're all discussing > camping in em, this might be interesting > > -------------------------------------------------------------- A car cooking technique that was used by people taking long trips in the US during the 1930s when restrants were just too expensive, is exhaust manifold baking. You can make a stew, or take a flat roast, some potatoes, onions, & carrots (things that take about the same amount of heat to cook), wrap them up in tinfoil and wire it onto the exhaust manifold, and drive off on your trip. When you are ready to stop to eat, you meal should be cooked. It would take some practice to figure out how many miles you need to drive for different perportions of different recipies. Honey, its been 400 miles, its time to eat ;*) TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Jul 28 17:53:40 1994 Date: Thu, 28 Jul 1994 18:45:49 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >Da Nige hit 85!?! On the flats!? I *am* impressed! My best speed was >only 77 mph (tail wind, coming down off the continental divide, engine off, I didn't say on the flats, nor did I say 85. Top speed on my speedo is 75, but we've hit the peg beyond it, which may well be close to 85, downhill, wind at our backs, tailing a truck, etc. Probably NOT a good idea with an 88 inch wheelbase and a brake system designed just after the war, but whattahey, ya gotta live sometimes (and yes, you have to die sometime, too). >A car cooking technique that was used by people taking long trips in the US >during the 1930s when restrants were just too expensive, is exhaust manifold >baking. You can make a stew, or take a flat roast, some potatoes, onions, & >carrots (things that take about the same amount of heat to cook), wrap them up >in tinfoil and wire it onto the exhaust manifold, and drive off on your trip. >When you are ready to stop to eat, you meal should be cooked. It would take >some practice to figure out how many miles you need to drive for different >perportions of different recipies. > Honey, its been 400 miles, its time to eat ;*) All the more reason to fix the leak on my Rochester! Don't think a steak and kidney pie is gonna taste good with petrol on it.....then again, I don't think a steak and kidney pie tastes good with *nothin* on it anyway! sorry chaps, I can't eat that stuff. rd/nige (a vegitarian) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 03:22:49 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 01:07:47 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: On the road again... Status: RO Well, we're only two days behind schedule, but tomorrow (today?) we're off on Vacation. Rachel and I will be heading North from San Francisco to the Canadian border and the Vancouver/Victoria area. Then we turn right and follow the trans-canada highway to Banff/Lake Louise/Jasper. After that it's Edmonton and another right turn to head to Calgary and Home. So, if y'all see a white 109" 3-door, with a roof rack and Ca plates "INDY 1", give us a wave, ora call on the CB. We'll probably be on channels 19, 17, or 7. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 05:46:12 1994 From: "Keith Coman" Organization: Rhodes University To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 12:24:38 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: For all you rugged lorrycampers....... Priority: normal Status: RO > In message Andy Woodward writes: > > Not actually anything to do with lorries. But since you're all discussing > > camping in em, this might be interesting > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > A car cooking technique that was used by people taking long trips in the US > during the 1930s when restrants were just too expensive, is exhaust manifold > baking. You can make a stew, or take a flat roast, some potatoes, onions, & > carrots (things that take about the same amount of heat to cook), wrap them up > in tinfoil and wire it onto the exhaust manifold, and drive off on your trip. > When you are ready to stop to eat, you meal should be cooked. It would take > some practice to figure out how many miles you need to drive for different > perportions of different recipies. It works! A mate did his national service in the British Army as a tanker. His mount was a Centurion, the auxillery engine (traverse turret, charge batteries, etc.) of which was a Morris Minor car engine with the exhaust running out and down the side of the fighting compartment. Pissing down with rain and sleet somewhere on the North German Plain and want some hot grub? Take a big tin of M&V, punch a tiny hole in the top and insert a matchstick, wire tin to the exhaust at a spot where you've peeled off the insulation, rev up the donkey engine, when the matchstick pops out, open and serve -- none o' that messing about with tommie-cookers on the floorplates!!! (I'll just mention the gallon of boiling water in about 90 seconds -- run a belt thru a water-cooled Vickers m.g.!) Obligatory Landie content ---> need to do some laundry? Easy take all those dirty of socks and underpants and chuck 'em in yr Landie's tool bin (under the frt seat or in the load bed wheelarch), pour in enough water to soak and add cold water detergent. Go for a 100 mile drive. Remove laundry, rinse out and hang to dry. Works best off-road! (Use a heavy duty plastic bag to put everything in if the idea of a few splashes and bailing out the locker doesn't appeal.) Cheers, Keith Coman * Dept of Management, Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa * ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 09:10:58 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 09:55:34 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Manifold Destiny Status: RO In the last two issues of the club newsletter "The Gearbox" we have published tips and techniques for manifold cooking, even recepies! Try one of my favorites for pork tenderloin, as the 2.25 is best suited for long, narrow food packages. Take one large or two small tenderloins (about 2# total). Rub with salt an pepper, add several sprigs of fresh sage and a few dashes of liquid smoke seasoning. Triple wrap in aluminum foil. Place on intake/exhaust manifold (no need to wire it on a 2.25, it fits in just fine) and drive three hours, flipping the packet over midway. As the french would say "roti al la point", or done to a turn. Then again, it lends a whole new meaning to the term engine degreasing. Back in the '70's one chap in the club bolted a .30 cal ammo can to his diesel manifold as a mini-oven. Another wrapped a few turns of copper tube around the exhaust for on-demand hot water plumbed to a spigot on the dash! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 11:12:18 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 11:01:20 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407262133.AA27899@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I am glad you asked about milage TeriAnn. I am getting about 12.5 with the Rochester on my 88 and I was beginning to think this was terrible. My friend, a mechanic, has an 88 with same set up and he is getting about 19-20. He made new jets for it by filling the jet area with solder and then drilling a fine hole to supply just the right amount of gas. I don't have the expertise to do this. I believe someone gave a number for the correct jets to use in this carb about a month ago, perhaps they can repeat it. Others in our club up here use the Rochester with the jets drilled and report better than the 12.5. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 12:41:00 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners Date: 29 Jul 1994 17:34:12 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article , David John Place wrote: >I am glad you asked about milage TeriAnn. I am getting about 12.5 with >the Rochester on my 88 and I was beginning to think this was terrible. My >friend, a mechanic, has an 88 with same set up and he is getting about >19-20. He made new jets for it by filling the jet area with solder and >then drilling a fine hole to supply just the right amount of gas. I don't >have the expertise to do this. I believe someone gave a number for the >correct jets to use in this carb about a month ago, perhaps they can >repeat it. Others in our club up here use the Rochester with the jets >drilled and report better than the 12.5. Dave VE4PN > > > For sea level to a few thousand feet, a #48 jet. What is used in the Los Angeles area, surrounding mountains, and desert. Randy From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 23:12:02 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 94 23:51:13 LCL From: Joseph Broach Subject: Assessing a Land Rover!!! To: land-rover-owner@team.net Status: RO Hi, I have been on the net for some time now (Roverless albeit), and I finally have a good reason to post! A Land Rover has come up for sale close enough to drive home and I'm going after it tomorrow. Anyway it's a 1967 series IIa 88". It has a safari roof and Fairey OD. I have the FAQ and have read it, any more advice on how to assess it would be very helpful. The guy says it's in great shape and also that he got stuck with the "truck" and has to sell it soon. He doesn't seem to have a vast knowledge of Landies, but take from this what you will. Also, if it really is in great shape how much should I offer? Keep in mind this could be the only pre-Defender Landy in Tennessee, who knows?? Thanks in advance!! Rgds, Joseph Broach From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 20:26:46 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 18:20:09 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Mike Fedette From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Portland ABF Leak Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I would like to go to the Portland meet and want to try to get together a convoy of other North California roverites to head that way, maybe taking two days up and two days back. I figured that we could camp out somewhere along the way. Can you give more details as to cost of entry of a vehicle and of a meetswapper (?) and other particulars of where and how we would connect with you far-northwest rover folks? Thanks, Granville Pool Land-Rover's first because Land-Rovers last! mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net 2601 Road I, #0 ("Road-I-Land") Redwood Valley, CA 95482 (707) 485-7220 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Jul 29 20:26:32 1994 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 18:20:26 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@stratus.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Land-Rover-based Ibex vehicles Status: RO I have occasionally seen just the scantest of mentions of a vehicle called and "Ibex" and gathered that it is Land-Rover-based. I have seen a couple of pictures, the best being an ad for one (late-model, referred to as "kit" with 100" wheelbase--suggesting Range Rover basis) in July issue of LRO. This looks like an interesting vehicle. I would like to know more and I am sure that others would too. What can you netters out there tell us about this vehicle? Still made? Where and by whom? How many? How much? Is it a kit? Alumin[i]um or GRP [fibreglass] skin? All that good stuff. Thanks in advance, Granville Land-Rover's first because Land-Rovers last. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 30 00:46:14 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Allan Smith) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 22:41:12 -0700 To: lro@team.net Subject: Re:Gas Mileage Status: RO Just to throw out another data point... My SIII 88 has an overdrive and a largeish roofrack to provide drag. In my trip from Los Angeles to New Jersey via Seattle I had an overloaded Land Rover with a lot in the roofrack. Using the Rochester carb I averaged 57 mph and got about 10.5 mph. In the end I ended up driving 4359 miles. Looking at my gas log book, using the Rochester Carb I've gotten about 12 to 13 mpg (as opposed to the 10.5 on the trip). (And I don;t know which jet I have in it). I also have a Weber single barrel carb. That got 14 to 15 miles to the gallon and that's with the roof rack. my all time best was 19.5 miles per gallon on a tank of gas (that was from NJ to Rovers North with a brand new Webber and I got the roof rack at RN. Gas mileages immediately dropped to ~17 mpg on the way back. :( Benjamin Smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 30 00:55:27 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Allan Smith) Date: Fri, 29 Jul 1994 22:50:45 -0700 To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Sleeping in 88s Status: RO For my first cross country trip in the 88 I took two boards and laid them from the bulkhead behind the center seat to the large handle onthe rear door. In the front area I piled the 3 seat cushions on the middle seat and put the two rear seat cushions on top. This gave me a bed running down the center of the 88 to sleep on. I'm 6' 4" and I fit fine (I had to j remember not to hit the horn when I rolled over. Since getting the roof rack I've just thrown some boards on the rack and slept up there. The only problem with this is that the wildlife can come up and greer you. (while I was dropping in the head the second time this trip I slept up in the rack while waiting for daylight to do the final adjustments. I was in a small town in California. About 3am a dog that stood about 4 feet at the shoulder and a smaller dog came over to the Rover. The smaller one start started barking its head off while the large one circled the Rover. I decided that I really didn't like being outside the Rover with large animals around. In the end they left and I went back to sleep.) As a third option I spent the rest of this trip sleeping across the front seats in rest areas. It's not the most comforable, and can only fit one persone, but it works. Ben Smith From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 30 14:42:34 1994 Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 12:35:33 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@stratus.com From: jfhess@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu (john hess) Subject: lots of questions, long, from non owner Status: RO Warning, the following contains numerous questions from a non Land Rover owner. They will probably seem simple but I assure you I am trying to figure out whether a L-R is in my future. I love the way they look, I don't care about the noise or heat, I enjoy being able to work on my cars and they seem so Retro, I may get one. Hello everyone, I have been looking at Land Rovers for about 2 years now and think I would like to buy a 4 door 109. I am not really interested in running the Rubicon trail (here in California), but would like to have the four wheel drive ability for some roads/trails I know. (at one time, I owned a Jeep, please, no flames) I know that TerriAnn has a 109 and cruises quite happily it seems, but I am a little concerned with gas, gas mileage, cruising range and cruising speed. I have a Sunbeam Tiger, so obviously I'm used to less than 30 mpg (even 20 and when I stay in town to run errands I'm scared to predict the gallons per mile). However, if I fill up a Land Rover to get out of Davis, the prospects of filling up the gas tank every 200-250 miles doesn't seem fun. I've read the FAQ, 16 gallons is the standard tank, right? So, I figure a 109 running a standard petrol engine with an overdrive would increase the gas mileage, cruising range, and make perhaps 60mph sustainable on the freeway. Then, I saw the post a couple days ago from Australia (sorry, I forgot who) about changing differentials to 4.1:1 ratio. This is a 20% change from standard, right? This is just about the same as the overdrive, right? So the overdrive would be better from the standpoint that it can be engaged and disengaged, and would have a greater change on engine rpms, but would be heavier than differential gear changes. What about both? Is that just plain insane? Why do people change engines? Spare parts, non-oil leaks, power, what is the one biggest reason? Does anyone change transmissions or tranfer cases? ie my jeep got >20 mpg on the freeway at 65 and seemed to me to have a very low 4wd first gear. I know it would make some people retch, but has anyone completly different drive train in a Land Rover. I guess at the far end of the scale, I saw a wrecked range rover for sale in the SF chronicle for $5000. What would its drive train be like in an old 109? The next thing I would like to discuss is for Northern California Land Rover people: Scotty's. I thought I had the phone number written down near my ever increasing pile of Aluminum Workhorses, FAQs and odd printed out emails. However, I can't find it. Could someone post the phone number and shop hours? Directions from some major freeway would really help, although I think I have maps of the entire Bay Area. I would like to stop by on Monday. Now for those who live in the Land Rover home country. The spring 1994 Aluminum Workhorse had an article written by Pat Hubbard that concerned her faithful 109 fondly nicknamed the tank. She tells a really wonderful tale of the beast and finishes by hoping that she can sell it to someone in the states on the hopes that it will be well taken care of instead of going eventually to a scrap yard. Her address is 10 Park Close, Mount Tabor, Halifax, West Yorkshire HX2 0RG. From the for sale ad she posted in the back, her phone is (0422) 355347. I am wondering if any internet connected land rover person knows pat and her tank? I would like to know if it is still for sale and whether it is in as first class shape as it appears. I am in the process of writing her a letter and might give a ring, but the task of buying something that big in another country is daunting! john f hess phd (wow, really?) jfhess@ucdavis.edu from home via modem From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 30 16:38:15 1994 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Sender: "JFisk1120" To: lro@team.net Date: Sat, 30 Jul 94 17:31:47 EDT Subject: Just checking in!! Status: RO I heard about the Land Rover News Group from Spenny@aol.com. I would like to become a member. Please advise. Thank you, Jan Fisk Springfield, Missouri Owner: 1964 Land Rover, IIA Series 1991 Range Rover County From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 30 16:54:18 1994 Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 17:46:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: POLL-for 109/2.25L petrol owners To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407262133.AA27899@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO 109sw with rottenchester carb.........normally 16 mpg....*once* got 19.9 mpg....and yes,I *do* have whitnesses.....I let that carb go with the engine when I dropped it in a real nice 88....the 88 got 19 all the time.... both of these were w/o overdrive......I be a *FOOL* to have let that treasure go....the same 109 with different engine(good,low miles) and Solex got 10.4 and 12.4 on the OVLR birthday trip.....this wreck only got 22 with the rover diesel..... steve..... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Jul 30 17:25:16 1994 Date: Sat, 30 Jul 1994 18:17:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: Fairey Overdrive To: "THE X WINDOW SYSTEM: A VMS FOR THE 90S" Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9407271859.AA13404@easynet.crl.dec.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO OOOPPPPS....one little correction on yhe layshaft bit...when the unit is in "normal" drive the inner spline shaft and the outer sleeve shaft with output gear are locked together and act as a solid shaft..very strong ...the layshaft turns in this mode,sure enough,but transmits *no* torque...when in OD,the full engine torque,*multiplyed* by the ratios in the main gearbox,are transmitted through that poor little layshaft....The engineers knew this and the componets will handle this torque ....for a while...I'd advise the use only in the lower gears under normal road use for maximum life..(saying all this,I constantly used the overdrive for spliting gears when towing impossibly heavy loads and had *no* problems...could not have gotten upset if it just went pop and stopped moving tho....) steve.... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 "