From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 1 16:00:19 1994 Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 15:50:56 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: vacuum advance? Status: RO Hello all! Having become "quite experienced" about distributor vacuum advance from repairing my mazda pickup (gotta have at least 1 motor with a roof!) I took a look at the beast and noticed a vacuum hose fitting on "that very corroded trumpet thing" hanging off of my distributor! Does anyone else have their vacuum advance disabled? I'm going to be sticking my vacuum pump/gauge on the thing soon. I'm actually quite impressed. The mazda is a piece of kaka without Vacuum advance. The rover on the other hand has been quite reasonable (yes the vacuum ports on the carb are all plugged) I am able to do about 70 mph on flats with overdrive and 50 on fairly steep hills. Wow, if I fix that thing what kind of performance gain will I see? Indy here I come! (Well maybe Limerock first!) John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 20:21:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Steve's Sweetie From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 17:42:57 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) writes: > >>> Wotcher mean Bale Bags and Curtains? Wots wrong with old fashioned > > >>Bale bags??? my hay always came bailed with eather twine or wire. Handy st > > >But makes lousy curtains? > > You could always knit the bailing wire into chainmail curtains. The chainmail would be useful for those living in Florida or Los Angles where not only are the natives armed, but they actually exchange pleasantries in the form of gunfire. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 20:21:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Mike Rooth on RoverWeb From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 17:44:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > PS - Dixon - where are those pics????? Waiting for me to get a friend to upload them as he does have full net access. StatCan is being less than co-operative about giving me an account. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 1 18:31:24 1994 Date: Sun, 1 May 1994 18:48:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: John Hong Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199405011950.PAA13110@zork.tiac.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Sorry Ace, the vacuum advance is used as an econmy measure only... The flame propogation in the chamber that has been subject to a sub-atmospheric induction is such that it can use an early start point for ignition.....The dynamic compression ratio is MUCH lower than static under these condition and will withstand more total advance.....OK in >English.. the fuel burns slower when there is less of it (and air) in the cyl....soooo you gotta light the match sooner if you want the stuff to burn and reach max.pressure at the proper time in the cycle..Ifin' ya' don't,the pressure builds after the optimum time and all the push is wasted ,sometimes out the exhaust!(if you don't believe this,retard the time and FEEL the exhaust pressure at the tailpipe...Leave it this way and watch the manifold get red hot!) So with the advance non-functional the rover will need a (slightly) larger throttle opening to develope the power to overcome friction than would be nessesary if you were burning the fuel in an efficent manner. When you womp the go pedal to the floor(which in a 109 is always) the "vacuum" goes away and the static or mechanical advance setting takes over as the max. advance that the engine can stand at that rpm and temperature during max. cyl. filling...... whew......this is one way that the modern engines get the fuel mileage that they do.. they electronicly control the timing and with knock sensors and such keep the timing at the higest possible setting eg: just short of"Knocking" The land rover along with any car of the period will often run well shy of the optimum timing to prevent engine damage (the timing needs can be dependant on so many things that there is not a single mechanical device that can cope with all the changes in fuel, temperatue, air density etc. This explains the low compression ratio on the Lander...the folks at Solihull do not have any control on the type of "Camel piss" that you will be putting in the tank at 117 F. w/o enough water in the radiator,while pulling Montana up mount Everest..... OK I'll stop.....I'm goin' ta' school to teach this stuff....now if there were a course in keeping students AWAKE........ (More than) 'nuff said steve.. HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 1 19:58:40 1994 From: dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Gasoline to Diesel Conversion To: denis@oswego.Oswego.EDU (Steven M Denis) Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 10:21:27 +0930 (CST) Cc: ad158@DAYTON.WRIGHT.EDU, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Steven M Denis" at Apr 30, 94 12:54:13 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1151 Status: RO Steve writes > If you are going to convert a Range Rover,get the biggest,baddest wompin' > Diesel that ya' can lay your hands on....The 3.9 Isusu engine will fit > nicely and I understand that it is a standard fitment in Australia in Land > rovers. Unfortunately the 3.9 (4DB) Isuzu WAS original fitment to 110's over here, not no more. For a Really fun time try to get a 4DB-T , 3.9 Turbo, more torque at idle than a 3.5 V8's max. > The biggest problem is that these engines are governed to 3000 rpm amd this > will limit your top speed with stock gearing.... Get hold of the 0.996:1 transfer set as fitted to the OZ 3.9 110's (LT-95 4sp, sorry dont know transfer ratio of the 5sp, but there must be a hi-speed one) An aquaintance in far off QLD, put a 3.9 Turbo in a rangie, needed new front springs and the taller transfer gears, swears by it rather than at it 30 -32 mpg at 70 mph, goes everywhere in top-gear so he claims. Best of luck -- Daryl Webb (dwebb@waite.adelaide.edu.au) Dept. of Plant Science, Waite Institute University of Adelaide, Glen Osmond S.A. 5064 Australia. Voice:61_8 303 7392 Fax:61_8 303 7102 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 08:54:18 1994 Date: Mon, 2 May 94 09:40:30 -0400 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: 16" Tires Status: RO I learned on Friday that the Goodyear Wrangler MT radial tires (215/85 x 16). tires which had originally been spec'ed for my restoration have been discontinued. Goodyear has apparently replaced them with a model called the MST. I've decided to go with a set of Cooper CTD radials in a 235/85x16. There is also a taller, narrower size which works with a IIa. This particualr model is the middle of the tread severity range. Cooper also makes an aggressive tread for full-time off roaders and a street tread which will fit. Now that work on the Rover has finally begun it is progessing nicely. Since my last report we've switched donor vehicles again, for the final time. I'm now in a 68 IIa 88", which will be set up with the headlights inboard. Color is now to be Marine Blue, which was my first color choice. All of the stereo problems seem to be worked out and I still have a center front seat. I'll write it up once the actual installation is complete and road tested. I also have an interesting idea for a bimini top which I'll pass along if it works out. Hopefully, I'll be driving the beast by May 27th, which is the day of a giant beach party in my hometown. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. Jimmy Buffett == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 09:03:30 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 2 May 94 9:56:06 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Robin Craig" at Apr 29, 94 7:25 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Robin writes: > love Mr Rooth's bits and pieces on Round a bouts as they are really > called, come on Mike give it the proper name. here in da states *the* proper name is "traffic circles", but most of the rest of you probably refer to them as "rotaries", no? > We have an arse backwards one here in town, those coming onto it have the > priority Mike! That one still catches me out. you mean to tell me New Jersey isn't the *only* place this is done?? can some provincial ministry really be *that* stupid as to follow NJ's lead?? never in my entire life have i seen anything so rediculous. I tavel around the bear mountain traffic circle (the one with the bulls eye in it) almost every day, and it is the first circle NJ drivers come to as they flee their state in the northerly direction. nine times out of ten, when i am cut off by an incoming car, it's got joisey plates on it. GRRRRR. no offense to those from NJ, except for those with several NY traffic infractions on their licenses..... rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 10:32:59 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 2 May 94 15:36:27 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Moss Motors Car show Content-Type: Text Status: RO Well, I'm settled into my new location in Short Hills and was suprised at how quickly I got reconnected. It should be interesting to see how the job turns out. I went to the Moss Motors British Car Show in Dover NJ Saturday and had a pretty good time. Lots of British cars & vendors. Not as much Rover stuff as last year but the turn out was pretty impressive. I picked up a couple of Land Rover pins and a Lucas 18ACR alternator for $10. I assumed it did not work and confirmed this when I got home. The rectifer and avalanche diode were both bad. I'll pick up some replacements this week and throw in bearings at the same time. The brushes seemed pretty good. There was a well used IIA shop manual (Part 2 I think) but they wanted $30. I'd rather spend a little more and get a new set from the LRO bookshop. There was a very nice III 88 soft top on display. The owner was Joe ??? from PA. He had just finished a complete restoration including new galvanized chassis and suspension. A really nice job. He had bought a frameover kit from ABP and was not entirely happy with it. The vehicle leans to the left slightly and he said that the LH bulkhead bolt hole on the LH outrigger was 1/2" too far out and the bulkhead would not bolt up. He had to cut & drill the new frame to make it fit. Owwww! He said the bulkhead fit the old frame properly so the problem was with the frame. Do any of our UK members have any experience/recommenations with galvanized frames from PRB or Walker? Any comments would be appreciated. ABP used to carry Walker frames but had a falling out with them. I don't know the details but they are now carrying PRB frames (or is it PWB?). Another question for our UK members - In the US the suppliers show one part number for the front or rear springs but in the Land Rover parts books and when corresonding with the UK distributors two part numbers are listed for each axle. Is this why most of the US Rovers with new springs lean to one side? Thanks. Sunday I tackled the window channels in the RH 88 hard top sliding windows. A lot of work but very satisfying. The most useful tools I had aside from a drill were a Dremel with a cutting wheel for cleaning/cutting screw slots in the old window channel screws, a shop vac to suck away the crud so I could see what I was doing, and thin nosed vice grips to turn out the worst of the screws. The top and side channels were fairly straight forward but the bottom were a challenge. After trying the careful approach in undoing the screws I just grabbed the end of one channel (they were pretty rusted) and started to bend it out. I found by working it back and forth it will finally snap at the next screw head. From there it's not too hard to pry it away from the screw and repeat the process until the channel is out. Once the channel was out of the way it was fairly easy to grip the screw heads and turn them out. One thing I didn't anticipate was that the rubber washers on the sliding locks were disintigrating. I'll try to get replacements this week. It felt so good to see the new channels in place. I almost wanted to put the hard top back on. Mabey next weekend I'll tackle the other side. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 567-3757 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. 2E231 101 JFK Parkway Short Hills, NJ 07078 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 12:26:41 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: RE: Gasoline to Diesel Conversion Date: Mon, 02 May 94 09:26:00 PDT Encoding: 63 TEXT Status: RO Andrew writes: > I've thought about a conversion of my Range Rover's engine to diesel. > Now after having driven the Land Rover 300Tdi engine, I feel even > stronger about this. > > Looking in the May Land Rover Internation magazine (the first isue I've > ever seen of it by the way) there are several ads for diesel conversions. snip... > My questions are 1) Has anyone converted from gas to diesel? > 2) Did you use a company w > Gotta go!! > > Thanks, > > Andrew > Dayton, Ohio Last summer I completed converting my 1979 2-dr Range Rover to a Perkins 4.182 turbo diesel. This is a 4 cyl. 182 cu in (~3.0 liter) engine. I am *extremely* pleased with the results of this conversion. I have a 4-spd gearbox, which I complemented with a Fairey/Superwinch overdrive. I get 25-30 mpg, and it will easily cruise at 80 mph on the freeway. After driving it for almost a year now, I'm very happy with the results. I spent a long time investigating various conversion possibilities, making several calls to dealers and garages in England. Since I expect to have the engine for a long time, it was very important that I had confidence in the availability of parts, here in the U.S. There are many options, but for me, this narrowed my choices down quite quickly to the Perkins. The U.S. importation laws make it difficult to bring engines into the country, that are not already in use here (though, not impossible) I found the engine locally, so shipping costs were nil. I purchased the conversion kit from Motor and Diesel Engineering, in England, and was quite pleased with the kit's completeness and instructions. It is well thought out, and fits very cleanly in the Range Rover without modifications to the vehicle. I did install heavy duty front springs. I found that a few used Japanese diesels are available in the U.S., through the 'imported Japanese used engine' dealers, which there are many of in the Seattle area. They can get any of the diesels that were originally sold in the U.S., and will guarantee that they 'run'. Also, the local marine suppliers can obtain a variety of nice Isuzu engines ($$$). While I could probably have found a way to obtain just about any engine considered to be a 'good' conversion through a variety of methods, the importation cost plus the ready availability of parts in the U.S. convinced me to go with Perkins. My next project is to retro-fit a Tdi radiator, to get the intercooler... Good luck! John Rostykus P.S. If you have further questions, either post to the group or mail to me at 'john@data-io.com'. What year is your Rangey? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 13:29:28 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: Reflections To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 2 May 94 13:19:26 CDT In-Reply-To: <9404291119.AA06248@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Apr 29, 94 12:19 pm Status: RO Mike Rooth said (among more very amusing bits): > > ... > To the 88" driver these islands,if smallenough,can be treated as a chicane, > welly being applied vigourously at the apex of the circle,*bags* of helm, > a la Nuvolari (look it up),and then enjoy the view in your mirror as Granny > tries to sort out her dilemma,having followed you faithfully in her funny > little motor. > ... Crimeny, I wish those Brits would learn to speak English! :) :) First sentence in a long time that has sent me to my dictionary (which in an unpardonable breach of good faith, completely omits any mention of Nuvolari)!! Mark From scott@more.net Mon May 2 14:17:40 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 14:13:36 -0600 To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu From: scott@more.net (Scott Fritz) Subject: Re: More on printers Status: RO Should that be "More on" printers or Moron printers.... ;) scott ====================================================================== Scott Fritz scott@more.net User Services / NIC Coordinator (314) 882-2000 ======== MOREnet -- Missouri Research and Education Network ======== From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 19:07:12 1994 Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 19:55:33 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: pinion oil seals Status: RO Okay you rover DIYers! (please respond directly to jhong@haiku.com and I will consolidate and post) My rear differential has been throwing gear lube for quite a while now. I have been trying to correctly fit a new oil seal and neither the haynes or the landrover manual clearly indicate the orientation of the seal. The seal is flat on one side and has 2 circumfrential "walls" on the other side. The cross section looks something like this: |_|__ __|_| I have tried installing them both ways. Which way do you think it should go? Flat side toward the differential or flat side toward the drive shaft? Email to me and I will consolidate and post! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 2 20:58:41 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: LR finger To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 2 May 1994 19:46:55 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 250 Status: RO Hey, mates, roverettes... Finger me, if you know what I mean. (It's safe. This is a unisex message.) T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 07:27:23 1994 Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 12:14:56 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <199405011950.PAA13110@zork.tiac.net> from "John Hong" at May 1, 94 03:50:56 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2218 Status: RO John Hong writes: > > Hello all! > > Having become "quite experienced" about distributor vacuum advance from > repairing my mazda pickup (gotta have at least 1 motor with a roof!) > I took a look at the beast and noticed a vacuum hose fitting on "that very > corroded trumpet thing" hanging off of my distributor! > > Does anyone else have their vacuum advance disabled? I'm going to be > sticking my vacuum pump/gauge on the thing soon. My '73 Range Rover has the vacuum advance disabled (it was like that when I bought it). Please don't ask any technical questions because I really don't understand what it does or how, but form the driving point of view (since it is still in pieces and has been for some months this is from memory). The pickup from low revs is sluggish, but once it gets wound up it is okay. Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping petrol all over the road on left hand bends. After talking to various people there appears to be to camps emerging, with regard to fixing the pickup: 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that 2. put a current electronic distributor on and re-program it Like I say, the technical bits are beyond me, but hope this is of some use. Ps, I think when (if) it ever gets back on the road I will persure route 2. > I'm actually quite impressed. The mazda is a piece of kaka without Vacuum > advance. The rover on the other hand has been quite reasonable (yes the > vacuum ports on the carb are all plugged) I am able to do about 70 mph on > flats with overdrive and 50 on fairly steep hills. > > Wow, if I fix that thing what kind of performance gain will I see? Indy > here I come! (Well maybe Limerock first!) > > John Hong > (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 06:29:39 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Reflections Bouncing Back To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Tue, 3 May 94 12:20:12 BST Status: RO Oh dear! Right,well,chaps.Sorry Mark.Tazio Nuvolari,prewar racing driver, renowned (I think) for getting his cufflinks mixed up with the steering wheel.All this straight armed driving is *newfangled* you know,steering wheels *used* to be in your lap,or a la Land Rover. To satisfy the purist,yes Robin,they *are* indeed called roundabouts, just like our fairground rides.I was surprised that any US examples werent called carousels.In my defence,however islands is easier to type,and they are called that was well. Its a constant source of delight to me,how American English and English differ.For instance the American term "wrist pin"is an immediately recognisable technical term.Where the hell did we get GUDGEON pin from? I mean the Gudgeon is a quite inoffensive small freshwater fish.I like the term "to speak with" better than "to speak to",the latter implying absolutely *no* input from the other party involved. In fact,didnt some Haynes manuals have a glossary of American and English technical terms at the front?I'm certain I can remember one such. And why do you Americans fill forms *out*.We fill them *in*.After all,they are no bigger after you've finished,are they? Pet hate.The term "handgun".Of course its a bloody hangun,otherwise it would be on wheels wouldnt it?Its a pistol.Invented in Pistoea (sp) in Tuscany.Or sidearm if you wish.The rifle is a rifle,or longarm.But a rifle is still a handgun. Too far from Land Rovers,this. I'm off. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 20:27:35 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 08:03:24 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Ok, I have done some research and called around and have come up with the following information on wheel rims for Land Rovers, if you know of any variance on this stuff then please post it to the board not to me. Series ones came with 16 inch rims with a 4 1/2" width. Series ones and two's were fiited with split rims, not the types we usualy see in north america but split on the the total cross section and bolted together. This was a military fitment. It quite often led to the practice of painting the nuts on the wheel. White for the nuts to remove the wheel from the hub. red for the nuts to undo the rim. this was to stop the unwitting squaddie from egt himself injured as a result of the pressure balsting out as he separated the rims! If you ar looking fo some of these then try looking for an austin champ as they will fit and came with splits as standard. >From what I have gathered the most popular rims for the series two era were for 88" vehicles 16 inch 5 inch wide rims. For the increased weight for the 109" the rim width was increased to 5 1/2 inches. There are offset rims, puting the trye further away from the centre of the vehcile. Quite often called deep dished or even military rims. While the military did use these rims as standard for quite a while they were always available as a civilian part number. There could have been two offsets but I am waiting for clarification on that one. The offset increases the total track of the vehicle. QED. The 110 i beleive is available with a 6 inch width rim. Confirmation please anyone? The rims from a 101 forward control will only fit a 101 forward control period. Different number of studs people. >From what I have understood the following fitment was possible 750 X 16 5 1/2 inch width rim 700 X 16 5 inch rim 650 X 16 5 inch rim I have purosely not delved into the grey area of range rover rim swaps. There was a very good article in LRO mag about the perils of that. Hope that this helps someone, and if as is very likely there are innaccuracies (sp) then please let me know. Thanks Robin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 10:33:08 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 3 May 94 12:59:08 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Tread Lightly Content-Type: Text Status: RO I started on the other set of sliding window channels when I got home last night. It goes a lot quicker the second time around. I had almost gotten the last two screws out when Baywatch came on, so I had to drop everything. I didn't see any Land Rovers even though I was watching very carefully. I guess I'll have to watch it again next week. ****************************************************************************** I saw an ad for the Tread Lightly organization in the Bay State club newsletter and decided to give it a try. I hoped it might give me some leads for off roading locations in my area. Their number is toll free 1-800-966-9900 or toll 1-801-621-8633. Membership is $20 (a year I think) and this is what you get: 1. Charter Member patch 2. Charter Member lapel pin 3. Charter Member window sticker 4. Plastic wallet card 5. Bumper sticker 6. 8.5" X 11" membership certificate (with your name on it) 7. Quarterly newsletter - 5 pages 8. Brochure - Outdoors America - A guide to Federal Recreation Lands throughout the US - not only national parks - includes phone numbers for additional information. It even includes off roading locations in... New Jersey??? Pine Barrens here I come! 9. The Toyota (gasp!) guide to America's Best Off Highway Family Adventures - a 54 page guide to off road trails & driving in the US. 10.An order form for more Tread Lightly stuff All of the stuff is pretty nice. The literature is well done and promotes responsible off roading habits. I called on a Thursday and received the package on Monday, Utah to NJ. Pretty fast. Well worth the money. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 567-3757 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. 2E231 101 JFK Parkway Short Hills, NJ 07078 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 10:44:54 1994 Date: Tue, 03 May 1994 11:30:00 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Camel Trophy Update Status: RO April 29th, Day 14- The convoy cleared Socompa Pass today, through the heart of the remotest section of the Andes. And they had a new off-road hazard to worry about - LAND MINES. Chile and Argentina went to war back in 1978 (something trifling about real estate ownership in Tierra del Fuego), and the passes were sown with mines, though according to one border guard, neither side has any idea of where the mines were actually laid. The region is stark, desolate but otherwise beautiful, with astounding terrain diversity on the descent into the Atacama desert. As it has not rained in some places since 1926, the fine, talcum-like dust became a great obstacle; several teams narrowly averted disaster when temporarily blinded by the clouds. Only with GPS were the teams able to find Friday night's camp about 80km from the coast. April 30th, Day 15- This was the beginning of two navigation tasks using the sat-nav receivers on each vehicle. The first task broke the group into three teams of six nations each, with the object of finding sets of coordinates in the desert within the six hour time frame. One group managed to find all the coordinates, another returned on-time, fearful of a time penalty, though they did not locate all of the positions. A third group, led by the Swiss (currently first place in special task points) returned in disarray, after a near mutiny when team members disagreed with their leader's navigation. I'll wager they won't score high in the "team spirit" voting at the end! The second task was to be a 500km, 18 hour marathon that would have had the teams returning a 4AM Monday morning, just before the start of the final special task events. However, the Canary Islands team became lost in the desert; they had waived on the reaminder of thier team when stricken with a mechanical problem that turned out to be too much for a field repair. After their resue by event officials, the 18 hr course was shorthened to seven hours, as officials feared that some might disappear into the vastness of the trackless Atacama. May 1st, Day 16- The object of today's satelite navigation task was to find as many of ten coordinates as possible within the alotted seven hours, these positions marked only by small colored stones in the otherwise vast, featureless wastes of the desert. Broken down into six groups of three each, only one team managed to find nine of the positions. Going into the event, the Swiss held a narrow eight point lead over the US; the Russians were third, 20 points behind the US. Could the US team of Mack Barber and Dave Simpson (a self-proclaimed desert rat from California) be the first nation to repeat a win? Could be, as the near-mutiny on Saturday is sure to cost the Swiss team spirit points. Monday, Day 17- This was the start of two days of intensive special task competition; featured events will include vehicle recovery from a deep gully and a near-impossible driving task. The Camel Trophy will finish Wednesday around lunch time in the coastal town of Hornitos. Don't touch that dial! *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 12:42:07 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@cco.caltech.edu (Randolph Rose) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Moss Motors Car show Date: 3 May 1994 17:31:29 GMT Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena Status: RO In article <199405031522.LAA18854@transfer.stratus.com>, wmalon wrote: > >Another question for our UK members - In the US the suppliers show one part >number for the front or rear springs but in the Land Rover parts books and >when corresonding with the UK distributors two part numbers are listed for >each axle. Is this why most of the US Rovers with new springs lean to one >side? Thanks. > >Bill Maloney > British Pacific has springs with a differnt part number for each corner. They're in Burbank, CA. They have an 800 number, which I don't have at my disposal. Randy Rose rsrose@puck.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 3 16:14:48 1994 Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 17:06:23 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jhong@haiku.com (John Hong) Subject: Thanks for all the pinion seal replies Status: RO I'll compile and forward after I machine the seal surface this evening! Thanks all! John Hong (jhong@haiku.com 617-625-9469 voice 623-5253 fax) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 4 01:20:13 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 3 May 1994 23:12:08 -0700 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Promo tape for Defender Status: RO I still am on the mailing list for LRoNA, so they sent me a advert tape today for the Defender 90. The tape contains various and sundry shots of the Defender, plus a segment on the Camel trophy, which looks like someone elses work (its the Malasaya 1993 event). Also, there's a short segment pushing the LR Driving School they run every year. The 1993 event seems to have been an opportunity to push the Discovery in the same advert tape. | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================| | If I'm good, someday I will get to convert a LR110 into a car camper | From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 4 16:30:27 1994 From: "Rostykus, John" To: LRO mailing list Subject: LOOK OUT FOR THAT CLIFF!!! Date: Wed, 04 May 94 14:18:00 PDT Encoding: 178 TEXT Status: RO This is a piece my wife wrote, about her first experience in low range. I thought you might enjoy it. Rosty ---------- Driving over cliffs Can be Fun, given a little preparation, a little foresight, and a co-driver that is willing to urge one on for the Really Sticky Bits. Oh, yes, AND a '79 Range Rover with a 3 liter, turbo diesel engine, 8 inches of play to the rear axle and 11 inches of play to the front axle. Thing is that I didn't start out knowing that I'd be driving over cliffs. It started out as an innocent thing, where myJohn, being a happy, enthusiastic Land Rover type, took me out to the Northwest Challenge, a gathering of Land Rover truck owners. We also belong to the Northwest's Land Rover Owners club, as John's habit has included various 88's, a couple 109's (one of which is a 1966 109 ex-military pickup that we drove in today on with the top off. Probably one of the most battered, utilitarianly beautiful (O.K. UGLY), convertible on the streets of Seattle..), a 110 with a thousand compartments a truly *amazing* story of how it got into the US. that included a dead uncle, years in an Alaskan field and a truly 'complete overhaul', and a couple of used Range Rovers. The club is really neat, filled with folks that own really *old* Land Rovers, the ones that resemble the Anti-Christ of The Gods Must be Crazy. Land Rovers weren't imported into the US from the early 1970's until just last year, so they were pretty rare here for a while, and all that were truly available were really old, beatup trucks that needed a lot of care. Sigh. I can't really do Land Rovers justice in a single missive. Anyway... The Northwest Challenge has two parts. One part is for the really rugged off-roaders with points for performance. The other part is an 'easy' rally thing that has some bits of off-roading in it. John, during the whole of our vacation, was saying, hey, maybe you should do the rally! I kinda laughed and then kinda nodded and next thing I know, I'm in line waiting to try out a teeter-totter in the Rangy and wondering just HOW easy was Easy? The teeter-totter was just two rails balanced on a log through support boards, the Land Rovers and Range Rovers would drive onto the tracks, and the driver would try to balance the truck over the log. John actually went out and lowered the idle on the Rangy for this, and they're all standard shift gearing. Turns out that with the diesel engine I could actually put the truck in first gear, low range, and with one foot on the clutch and one foot on the brake I could let the clutch out as I was letting go of the brake and the truck would creep up the incline in either gear. But with only three minutes to actually figure out the balance... anyway, I managed to float both ends of the teeter totter for a while... but didn't manage to make the time limit on the balance. Then we were off... Over the valley and through the woods, Over bikers we will go... Ooops. Wasn't supposed to say that. We were on logging and power line roads the entire time. The club's very, very strict about not destroying anything that hasn't already been cleared or made for off roading. The problem was that there was a dirt biking rally going on the same day that our rally was going on. The bike rally was *supposed* to be over by the time we got in, but, sure enough, they weren't. And bikers being bikers were just *crazy* compared to the Rovers, which, I guess, is the point. I am quite sure they had a lot of fun, even the one that bounced off the front of one of the trucks. The truck was coming around a blind corner, rather slowly, and the biker just zoomed around from the other side and literally bounced off the front of the Land Rover. The rider pulled the bike off the road and then sat down on the hillside, waved the Landy's drivers off with a "I'm O.K. I'm just going to sit a bit, but I think I'm just fine..." The navigator of the truck, somewhat exasperated, said, "Maybe, but we don't hit people very often, so we'd like to be sure you're O.K." He checked out, O.K. Tough... stupid, perhaps, but tough... and after seeing what some of the bikers do to themselves on the trails, I could believe the guy was just fine. The beginning of the ride was pretty innocuous, just regular rally stuff on dirt roads. We got to a little loose gravel, the trees started closing in, the dirt started turning to mud, and then we started following things that looked more like deer paths than roads. Not too steep, but steep enough. After a couple more turns we started meeting up with other Rovers. A few more and the dirt bikes started buzzing in behind us like angry hornets. So I pulled aside and let them go on. More and more Rovers started getting lost and at one point there was a bottleneck of about half a dozen going through some fairly windy, narrow, nearly canyon like 'roads'. A little further and we turned down a path under a power line. I could still see the road over the hood when we reached the edge of that one, and didn't like much what I saw. Rocks about as big as my head, that slimy red mud that was as much local clay as anything else, and a bunch of Rover tracks to follow. John kinda matter of factly told me how to get into low range, first gear for going down and yelled at me a couple of times to just take my foot off the clutch and not worry about the gas. It astonished me that that worked, but since I was in the middle of just *doing* it, it didn't frighten me nearly as much as afterwards, when I actually thought through what I'd just done. And the Rangy pretty much walked over the boulders that I pointed it at and that was that. Well, other than leaning into our shoulder harnesses as we went down the steep incline, and the fact that I felt a lot like I was riding a swaying, lurching camel. John was rather proud of the fact that I hadn't bounced the car once. Then it was up a slope that I would never have even attempted on *foot*, much less in anything on wheels. Half-a- dozen bikes buzzed around me, and zoomed straight up the slope, two didn't make it to the top, had to turn around and do a semi-controlled fall down the slope in order to try and go up again. After a few of those I looked at the JF. He grinned back at me and said, "You'll make it. No prob." So I put it into second, and sure enough. we made it, with momentum and room to spare. After that I thought I was home free; but then we came to this *cliff*. The cliff had this very intimidating sign that said, "Warning Dirt Bike Race in Progress. Watch for bikes!!" I couldn't see over the edge of the cliff even when I'd put a wheel over the edge. I panicked a bit. John told me to Back Up. So I did. I parked the Rover at the top, opened the door and promptly dropped it, as I realized that I'd parked the Rover at a nearly 20 degree angle. I just hadn't realized it was so steep after all the other tilting we'd done... I walked to the edge and calmly started spotting rocks. THAT was when I realized that it was a slope I would probably have broken my neck *CLIMBING* down, much less driving down. As John later put it... "I could tell when you were getting nervous 'cause you got kinda... terse." The good thing was that the warning sign was for the motorcycles at the bottom of the slope. The bad thing was that as I was heading back to the Rover two more Landies pulled up and the driver of the first asked, "What's wrong?" I laughed and said, "Nothing, other than I couldn't see over the edge until I got out of the car; and there's a race at the bottom of the slope..." They laughed too. I don't know why. I climbed into the Rover, hauled the door shut to a congratulations from the JF, and put the car into first gear, low-range, and took my foot off the clutch and prayed. We went down that slope hanging from our shoulder straps, and John talked me through it like talking a frightened horse through a fire. The diesel has incredible braking capability because it has much higher compression than a normal gas engine. We picked our way down, and it felt a little like riding an extraordinarily sure footed horse as it picked its way down a steep trail with nary a slip or slide. At the bottom I quietly put the Rover back into high range and waited for the wave from the bike race coordinator; and then took off down the now really safe and ridiculously *flat* road. It was an experience. Chuckle. It felt *really* good to know that I tried it and accomplished what I would have thought impossible even while scared to death by it. That was fantastic... Thanks John!! ---- Liralen Li | "Remember, science is talking about the universe in a li@inigo.Data-IO.com | way you can understand it, magic is talking to the aka Phyllis Rostykus | universe in a way it can't resist hearing." Neil Gaiman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 4 17:35:44 1994 Date: Wed, 04 May 1994 18:26:32 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Mailing List To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Hello, has something happened to the LRO mailing list? I've not been getting any mail for two weeks now. Is it possible to be put back on the distribution list? Thanks, Andrew Steele AD158@dayton.wright.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:12:46 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Reflections Bouncing Back From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:34:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > Its a constant source of delight to me,how American English and English > differ. Thank god you specified the cahps south of the border as being distinct from us in the thawing barbarian hinterlands. You think they write funny, well, just wait until you actually talk to them... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:14:26 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tread Lightly From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:37:55 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes: > I saw an ad for the Tread Lightly organization in the Bay State club > newsletter and decided to give it a try. I hoped it might give me some leads > for off roading locations in my area. Their number is toll free > 1-800-966-9900 or toll 1-801-621-8633. Membership is $20 (a year I think) an > this is what you get: One has just started in Canada. I received their general information this morning, so will post the Canadian numbers tomorrow. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:14:24 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Moss Motors Car show From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:40:16 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes: > Another question for our UK members - In the US the suppliers show one part > number for the front or rear springs but in the Land Rover parts books and > when corresonding with the UK distributors two part numbers are listed for > each axle. Is this why most of the US Rovers with new springs lean to one > side? Thanks. If you really want to get accurate, there are eight different springs. Starting with breaking them into two lots, the springs on each corner of a Land Rover are different, in the North American Dollar Area (NADA) and for the UK. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 00:12:30 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Summer events... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 4 May 1994 23:44:46 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I'll post the details on the OVLR Birthday party tomorrow. OVLR is planning at least two other overnight events after the Birthday Party, so hopefully we will have four of them this year (The first is on the 21st of May to the Otter Lake area of Quebec) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 05:05:23 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk (Richard Jones) Date: Thu, 5 May 94 10:49:00 BST Cc: jhong@haiku.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405031214.aa18001@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>; from "Richard Jones" at May 3, 94 12:14 (noon) Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi folks, this is by way of a swan song as I don't find the list has such a good SNR for me any more since I moved from leaf to coils. Nice chatting to you all in the past. > My '73 Range Rover has the vacuum advance disabled (it was like that .. > The pickup from low revs is sluggish, but once it gets wound up it is > okay. Rangeys come with carbs and either a vaccum advance or both advance and retard from 1970-85 in the UK. The advance is a fuel saving and drivability aid and the retard is an emissions aid. Disconnecting the advance will adversely affect small throttle work but won't alter WOT a jot. (Wide open throttle). Retard vacuum source is only present when throttle plate is near closed. > Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the > vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping > petrol all over the road on left hand bends. I get 20mpg on a run with advance and retard connected. Timing depends on distributor of course - and whether it matches your engine. > 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that Do you mean pre vacuum retard? > 2. put a current electronic distributor on and re-program it It doesn't contain a program; it's the same dizzy as points except it has reluctance switching incorporated. Perhaps the US version is different. Best Regards, Steve. sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 06:29:34 1994 Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk (Steve Methley) Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 11:48:18 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9405050949.AA19064@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at May 5, 94 10:49:00 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2360 Status: RO Steve Methley writes: > > Hi folks, > this is by way of a swan song as I don't find the list has > such a good SNR for me any more since I moved from leaf to coils. > Nice chatting to you all in the past. > > > > My '73 Range Rover has the vacuum advance disabled (it was like that > .. > > The pickup from low revs is sluggish, but once it gets wound up it is > > okay. > > Rangeys come with carbs and either a vaccum advance or both advance > and retard from 1970-85 in the UK. The advance is a fuel saving and > drivability aid and the retard is an emissions aid. Disconnecting the > advance will adversely affect small throttle work but won't alter WOT > a jot. (Wide open throttle). Retard vacuum source is only present > when throttle plate is near closed. Sounds like mine has (or was intended to have) both > > Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the > > vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping > > petrol all over the road on left hand bends. > > I get 20mpg on a run with advance and retard connected. Timing > depends on distributor of course - and whether it matches your engine. 18 mpg is an average figure over some months, so included all sorts of driving rather than just a run. Presumably disconnecting the vaccum advance/retard is just a part of by-passing the emmission bits and pieces. > > 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that > > Do you mean pre vacuum retard? sounds like it > > 2. put a current electronic distributor on and re-program it > > It doesn't contain a program; it's the same dizzy as points except it > has reluctance switching incorporated. Perhaps the US version is different. like i said, what goes on under the bonnet it pritty much a mistery to me, above it what was proposed to me as it was proposed - it wouldn't surprise me if the discription wasn't technically correct, but simply somthing I could relate to. > Best Regards, > Steve. > sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 08:24:15 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Internet message To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Thu, 5 May 94 9:14:19 EDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00672632.CXKS46A@prodigy.com>; from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at May 02, 94 1:00 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > >One artillery shell about the size of my forearm was found just 150yds > >from my neighbors house > > To wit...given da' Nige's long-range telekenitic powers, perhaps they were > *aiming* at him but missed. With the spontaneous clutch problems I'm > having now, maybe you could be so kind as to provide Nigel's _exact_ > latitude and longitude or grid coordiantes at this moment. To paraphrase > 'Joliet Jake' Blues, "we're on a (fire) mission from God." ;-) > > *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* > | | > | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | > | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | > | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | > | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | > *------------------------------------------------------* > > lat 41 deg 17' 30" long 73 deg 54' 04" rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 08:29:26 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: rich@amethyst.apricot.co.uk (Richard Jones) Date: Thu, 5 May 94 14:18:09 BST Cc: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405051148.aa05914@amethyst.apricot.co.uk>; from "Richard Jones" at May 5, 94 11:48 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO About the advance/retard on Rangeys > Sounds like mine has (or was intended to have) both > > > > Fuel consumption seems to be the main benifit of disconnecting the > > > vacuum advance - about 18mpg was normal and that was with it tipping > > > petrol all over the road on left hand bends. > > > > I get 20mpg on a run with advance and retard connected. Timing > > depends on distributor of course - and whether it matches your engine. > > 18 mpg is an average figure over some months, so included all sorts of > driving rather than just a run. Presumably disconnecting the vaccum > advance/retard is just a part of by-passing the emmission bits and pieces. > > > > 1. find an early (pre vacuum advance) distributor and fit that > > > > Do you mean pre vacuum retard? > > sounds like it Disconnecting advance will lose mpg and drivability (unless you change the centrifugal advance too). Disconnecting retard will increase emissions but could improve mpg, notably around town. Time at 5ATDC with both connected or drop and plug the retard and time around 6BTDC, avoiding pinking. You'll need to trim the idle speed and mixtures in each case. The old pre-retard dizzys simply didn't have a retard port fitted and were as far as I could tell otherwise similar, so dropping the retard should still give you the correct curve for the engine - if anyone can verify/dispute this I'd love to learn more. I imagine the 8.25 and 8.13 engine have similar curves, but the 9.35 I'd expect to be different. I thought about removing the retard on mine, but I do find it gives a very soft action to the initial accelerator movement - a real boon when bouncing about off-road. Just when I leave the list it gets interesting. Anyone interested in a coiler's list? I'd set it up. I'm on the v8 and lbc lists, see you there. -- Best Regards, Steve. sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 09:33:20 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: vacuum advance? To: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Steve Methley) Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 09:22:33 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: <9405051318.AA19128@methley2.hpl.hp.com> from "Steve Methley" at May 5, 94 02:18:09 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 608 Status: RO Steve Methley was bold enough to point out... >Just when I leave the list it gets interesting. Anyone interested in >a coiler's list? I'd set it up. I'm on the v8 and lbc lists, see you >there. Steve, give us info (and opinions) on the v8 and lbc lists, please. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Thu May 5 09:46:40 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: was vacuum advance, now mail lists To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Date: Thu, 5 May 94 15:45:01 BST Cc: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405051422.AA16088@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at May 5, 94 9:22 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO > Steve Methley was bold enough to point out... > >Just when I leave the list it gets interesting. Anyone interested in > >a coiler's list? I'd set it up. I'm on the v8 and lbc lists, see you > >there. > > Steve, give us info (and opinions) on the v8 and lbc lists, please. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^: > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 > > - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) > - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) > - 80 MGB - xx > ------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi Ray, was that bold or bald? info: ^^^^ lbc means little british car, naturally:>) >You are now on the British cars mailing list digest, aka Scions of >Lucas (SOL) Send your mail to > > british-cars@autox.team.net > >Send address changes and such to > > british-cars-request@autox.team.ne The v8 list is really for TR8 owners: >INTRODUCTION >Good grief! :-) We now have 32 members on the TR8 mailing list. I worry >a little about that number since I'm not an "official, system-sanctioned" >mailing list. For those of you who are new to this list, the "mailing >list" is nothing more than a .forward file on a seldom-used (UNIX) account >of mine. (I'm not sure how much longer the systems guys are going to >tolerate me :-) We're actually a very well-behaved list and don't have >nearly the volume of most lists so I'm not going to worry... However, >keep in mind that this list is for discussion of TR7-V8/TR8 specific >things, i.e., things not appropriate for the BIG british-cars mailing >list. If you think people on the british-cars list might be interested in >your particular question or problem, you probably oughta post your >question there (or post to BOTH lists). > >USING THE LIST >Anyway, to mail things to the list, use the address > meeq462@hermes.chpc.utexas.edu >For any other correspondence, mail directly to me at > jtc@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu > opinions: ^^^^^^^^ Join the lbc list if you have anything other than a leaf sprung LandRover. Join the v8 list only if you run a Rover V8 !! -- ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Best Regards, Steve. Dr Steve Methley ***** ***** HP Labs, Filton Road, *** /_ __ *** email: sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Bristol, BS12 6QZ, UK ** / / /_/ ** or sgm@hpl.hp.co.uk direct line: +44 272 228751 *** / *** fax: +44 272 228924 switchboard: +44 272 799910 ***** ***** or 228920 ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 10:35:13 1994 Date: Thu, 05 May 1994 11:13:57 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Camel Trophy Results! Status: RO 2nd May, Day 17- Tierra del Plata, Chile The final set of special tasks began as night fell on Sunday, beginning with a 3.5 km orienteering run; participants had only a compass, map and a flashlight. "We have only a torch and a small map," said Ingo Paulsen of Germany. "The desert is a big place. I wouldn't want to get lost." Some teams set up a blistering pace; others got lost when their torches packed in, having to follow others back to camp. Once there, teams had to jump into the Discos for a two hour navigation task, based solely on the Terratrip computer. The afternoon's task, an 8 km orienteer course over rocky ground was delayed until after sunset due to the desert heat. Caution was the watch word, as the route involved steep drops and gullies, but even so, on of the Canary Islands team collapsed from exhaustion. 3rd May, Day 18- With temperatures climbing past 35 C, it was a day for heavy work at the special tasks: vehicle recovery from a deep gully, driving a tight figure 8 course on a 35 degree slope, a pair of timed hill climbs without the aid of a stopwatch, winching up a barren slope without anchor points, a natural obstacle course, and towing a Disco through a gully with the A-bar. The winching task was the most challenging, especially in the hard, rocky ground. "We broke three axe and pick handles digging that hole, and still it wasn't deep enough," said Mack Barber of the US team. Finishing one minute past the one-hour time limit, they accumulated no points for the task, though the following team took advantage of their work: The Spanish team dug the hole even deeper and winched up the 45 degree slope with ease. "It was comfortable just hanging there," said Carlos Martinez. I'll bet. The time trial involved one team member trying to match the other's run up a steep slope. Some used the beat of the windscreen wipers as a metronome, while the Swiss team recorded their first run and played it back on the tape to match the time exactly. Germany became the first team to roll a Disco while driving between events. Casualties started mounting: the team doctor worked most of the day to stabilize the stricken Canary Islander, one of the Greek team re-injured a knee originally hurt in the team selection trials in Turkey, Dogon Akoora or Turkey needed stiches in his forehead, one of the Holland team had a sliced finger super-glued back, while Mark Cullum of the UK slashed his palm. And now, drum roll please, the RESULTS. 4th May, Day 19- Though the Swiss team had been leading in the special tasks competition, the Spanish team edged them at the end with the Canary Island team finishing third. In team spirit, Spain took third, with the UK team of Damien Taft and Mark Cullum second in the voting. But none came close to the runaway first place finish by the popular pair from South Africa, Klaus Albert and Etienne van den Eeden, competing as that nation's first team and flying their new flag. In the overall standings, Spain finished first. "We were not prepared to win. This is such a surprise," said Carlos Martinez. "Even though we made a lot of mistakes in the special tasks, we still finished second overall and I'm shocked by the result, but it's absolutely fantastic," said Taft of the UK team. The Canary Islands finished thrid. Next year, the event (and subject to a pre-scout later this year) will begin and end in Belize, visiting Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador and Mexico as well. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 12:27:39 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: Camel Trophy Results! To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) Date: Thu, 5 May 1994 11:18:20 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <013.00687494.CXKS46A@prodigy.com> from "MR ALEXANDER P GRICE" at May 5, 94 11:13:57 am Content-Type: text Content-Length: 198 Status: RO Thanks to Sandy Grice for the great Camel reports! T. F. Mills tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 5 21:17:06 1994 From: brianneily@aol.com Sender: "brianneily" To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 05 May 94 22:04:37 EDT Subject: Sign me up Status: RO Please sign me on to this fine mailing list. I own a 1964 Land Rover 88, my only vehicle and sole means of transportation. I am also a member of Bay State Rover Owners Association. Theank xou From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 09:26:41 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: the Competition To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 6 May 94 15:11:28 BST Status: RO The 4X4 exhibits at the local County Agricultural Show,if not *quite* every 4X4 on sale over here,were certianly enough to draw at least one conclusion.That is,Land Rover *may* have competition,but it is faint and pursuing at best.Suzuki were not present as far as I could see,neither was Jeep. The new Izuzu Trooper has grown into the usual bulbous sided Japanese offering,and now resembles the Mitsubishi Shogun,neither of which look very capable of good off road performances.The Trooper is now marketed by Vauxhall over here.The barrel sides are a shame as far as the Trooper is concerned,because the previous model wasnt bad looking,and had a far more "open aspect" from inside than the present one.Suffocating is how I would describe the interiors of both these models. The less said about the Vauxhall Frontera the better.It looks low and wide,but probably isnt,but *is* gaudy.It does not present the appearance of a vehicle to be taken seriously at all. Now you can,so they say,with a Nissan,but not I think with their horrible new "little" 4X4,whether you buy it with the Nissan badge or the alternative Ford badge.Maverick,Ford call it,and it is perhaps the ugliest thing on four wheels I have seen in years.The problem is that the window line slopes *upwards8 at the back,just where you need to be able to place the vehicle when reversing.It presents a high,but narrow aspect,and I wouldnt wish to try it on anything of a sideslope.Popular in this neck of the woods at least it isnt,and if the number of people round it were anything to by that is a situation that is likely to continue.The Toyota 4 Runner is another "Japtank" on offer,that at first sight is difficult to identify from the Trooper and the Shogun.Like cars,the Jap 4x4's are beginning to all look the same. We draw a veil over the Rocsta.It looked better as a Jeep. The Lada stand,made a difference.The Niva Cossack(The tarted up version)I found rather over decorated for my taste outside,but was nicely appointed inside.The standard Niva has a pleasantly decal free exterior,but unfortunately the seats looked as though they may just last a fortnight. They would have been better sticking with vinyl.But overall,they are a pleasant "chunky" little vehicle,offering good visibility from inside. IMO they should dispense with the chrome (not much,but even a little is too much on an off roader).What is more,there were people looking at both the examples on display.It is a great shame they dont do a diesel version,and that the engine is only 1600cc(shades of the early S1).It really *does* need its towing capacity raising to where you could at least pull one horse with it. The Land Rover stand was,of course,the most,no,the ONLY crowded one. They had a Defender 90,Disco,and the LWB Range Rover on display.All LOCKED.That is the local agent for you.People had to go and *ask* for them to be unlocked so they could have look.What can you say about either the Rangey or the Disco?Its already been said.The 90 was interesting (I managed a sneak sit in this one,they had forgotten to lock it up again).This was the blind side hardtop version,Tdi,with, interestingly *three* front seats.It seems that the demands of the farming community have resulted in the reinstatement of the centre seat.The driving position hasnt changed,it felt the same as my 11A. I felt that the instrumentation could have been improved,it looks rather as though they chucked the instrumments at the dashboard, then drilled a hole where they landed.I remember thinking of a comment of Teriann's some time ago when she asked what had happened to the "workhorse" version of the Land Rover.Well,this was it,alive and well,but with a headlining now so you dont get condensation dripping down your neck.Vinyl seats in grey.The most noticeable difference from the driver seat is the height of the windshield, that extra couple of inches makes it a *much* more "airy" interior. The doors,too,shut with a nice solid "clunk",rather than the previous "clank".I got a tremendous impression that here was a SOLID machine, ready for hard work but comfortable,strong and *safe*.I want one! None of the vehicles on display could be driven,there simply wasnt room.Apart from Land rover and Lada,I didnt see a single soul round any other 4X4 on display all weekend. When you compare the Rover range with the others,the Japs look very, well,coarse,somehow.The shape *looks* heavy,and perhaps this is the intention,but unfortunately it comes across as just plain clumsy. By contrast the Rover look extremely competant,and sit well on their wheels.The little Niva is just cheeky. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 09:56:29 1994 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: azw@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward) Subject: Re: the Competition Date: Fri, 6 May 1994 15:42:26 UNDEFINED Status: RO >either the Rangey or the Disco?Its already been said.The 90 was >interesting (I managed a sneak sit in this one,they had forgotten to >"clank".I got a tremendous impression that here was a SOLID machine, >ready for hard work but comfortable,strong and *safe*.I want one! But theyre no longer anywhere near as field serviceable like teh series 3. Theyre SloaneWangeWova from the knees down, remember..... And you _really _ want to work on the TDi? Luckily I got in while you could still get the normally aspirated 2.5. I like mine, but I'd have had a series 3 if I had a choice of new ones. The best howler among the competition has to be the Tonka Hilux Diesel (if they havent fixed it by now!). When they came out, one of the testers in a mag went fording. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG! Diesels suck hard. The air intake was under the front wheelarch!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Water doesnt compress too well. New engines cost a lot. Most ridiculous piece of design I've ever seen! Even dafter than the (aptly named) spoiler on the Wangewova Vagues. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 10:02:37 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Fri, 06 May 94 10:51:42 EST Encoding: 1160 Text To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, Mike Rooth Subject: Re: The One that Got Away Content-Length: 1131 Status: RO Mike writes: > I last saw the old girl about ten years later,parked outside the building > where I am now.I could have cried.The interior had benn tarted up to look > like,well nothing on earth.Now,of course,I coulnt afford it.I couldnt even > afford the number plate.CV 3360. Never look back. Once she's gone, she's gone. Favorite cars torture you enough when you own them...once they're out of your stable, you can't be responsible. Voice of hard experience. I sold *my* favorite sports car, a 1972 Volvo 1800E, (modern iron by this group's standards) and saw it 4 months later. Hadn't been washed since I had applied my hands to the finish and had a meter long scrape down the driver's fender :-( Still makes me sad to think of my car in that state. Never should have sold it... > I honestly didnt expect this to end up so long,nor did I intend it to > be.So I apologise in advance to anyone who has been bored mindless,by > what is,I suppose,largely an irrelevance.Sorry! Mike, keep it coming...Good stuff, equal to the Miscellaneous Ramblings in R&T by Peter whatever his name is. Lee llevitt@idcresearch.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 11:48:48 1994 Date: Fri, 6 May 94 09:37:14 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: BANG! repair update Status: RO Land Rover repair update: Herstory: A week ago Sat. I was stopped at a stop sign. As I started to move there was a loud BAM and the clutch no longer disengaged. Pressing the clutch peddle to the floor, the clutch would spin enough not to kill the engine at a stop if you keep the revs up to about 2K. However you could not change gears with the engine running. I drove home by starting the engine in gear. Pulling the cover to the master clutch/peddle assembly showed that the upper mechanical linkage was working correctly. Pulling the passanger floor revieled that the lower linkage appeared to be working correctly but the lower mechanical linkage was only retracting about half way. meaning about half the travel was freeplay. Everything looked intact. Everything I could see looked like it was working properly, except that I had about half the slave cylinder movement as freeplay. Since it was raining and though I was wet from trying to diagnose the problem, I didn't feel like laying on my back in the mud wrenching on the car. So I put taking things appart untill the following weekend. Last weekend found me coming down with a bad cold, but I did get the drive shafts off, the seat pedistal and floors off, the emergency brake disconnected, the lower nuts off the bell housing. I was pulling one of the pins in the lower mechanical linkage when I noticed that it had broken off, twice. There was a recent break on the lower part where it came out from the connection collor, and an older break about 1/3 of the way down the hole from the head of the pin. The remaining part of the pin was in place still transmitted the movement from one shaft to the other. But the hole in the collar is a bit larger than the pin. Since I was aching all over, had a headache, hate pulling Land Rover transmissions, and starting to think I may not half too, I put things away & went bck into the house. Yesterday the parts I ordered came in. Right after work I poped a new pin in and bolted the slave cylinder back to the bell housing and gave it a try. Gosh Gee, the clutch worked! So this weekend, I will replace both pins, the collor, the bronze bushing and both felt washers in the lower linkage (I have a chronic case of ship wright's disease). Then I'll reassemble the rest of the car & hopefully be back on the road. Thankfully I will not have to spend all my time playing with the clutch. Maybe I'll have time to install the rebuilt TR3 steering box that also came via UPS yesterday. I always feel uneasy if only one of my British cars is working. I feel very uneasy when all three are on strike at the same time. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 12:20:43 1994 Date: Fri, 6 May 94 11:07:16 -0700 From: Grettir Asmundarson To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Urequited Love Status: RO I'm doing it. I know it's crazy...but I'm doing it. I've been been skulking on this mailing list for over a year now, but I've always felt like a bit of a fraud, not being a Land Rover _Owner_. But I figure being a Land Rover lover counts for something. I've been in love with Land Rovers as long as I've been in love with the opposite sex. My first real brush with both happened in Iceland in 1972. My father flew fighters for the U.S. Air Force and we were stationed in Iceland from 1972-1974. While I was there I developed a huge crush on Lisa Dickens, a lovely little minx who had the entire male population of our second grade class entranced. Lisa's father had a red Series IIa 88 that he was outrageously proud of. And because of its association with Lisa, I thought it was pretty keen too. One of the highlights of my life was riding on the rough dirt road to Hafnarfjordur with Lisa and I sitting in the rather uncomfortable back seat of the 88. As we jostled down the road, our shoulders would brush occasionally and we would giggle our heads off. (She would later claim that we exchanged a kiss on this trip. We most certainly did _not_. Trust me, I would have remembered it if we had...) Anyway, my love for Lisa went unrequited and, up to this point, so has my love of Land Rovers. But I'm hoping to remedy that. I live in Utah, where I know of only five Rovers in the state. (This number doesn't include the new Defender 90s and transients visiting Moab.) So, the odds of finding an old Series IIa for sale in this neck of the woods are fairly bad. I've kept a close eye on this list and the Rovers North mailers trying to find a suitable Rover for sale, but haven't had any luck. Either the vehicles are not what I'm looking for or the asking price seems very high. So, I've come to the conclusion that I might be better off going to the source. Let me explain... I'm looking for a 1967-1969 Series IIa 109 Station Wagon with a tropical roof and a frame that isn't going to have to be replaced for at least a few years. Such a vehicle is not an easy thing to find in the U.S. And despite what the FAQ says, the average going rate for such a vehicle in the heartland of the U.S. is about $6,000-$7,000US. So, I've been thinking. Since I'm having a hard time finding anything on this side of the pond, why not fly to England, purchase a vehicle there, and ship it back to the states? The theory being that for that same $6000 I can get a better vehicle (having more to choose from) and, as an added bonus, I get the novelty of right-hand drive. (A pain at drive-up windows, but think of the advantage in parallel parking.) Well, that's the theory. What's the reality? I've seen discussions about importing vehicles on this list in the past, but I haven't heard of anyone who has actually done it. I assume if I stay pre-1970 I should be able to get past the EPA and DOT restrictions. But here are a few basic questions: Are pre-1970 109's readily available in the U.K? I know that an 88 would be easier to find, but I've got my heart set on a 109. And here in the U.S., (which is probably _not_ a good indicator is this case) pre-1970 cars are not necessarily easy to find here. So, how does one go about finding one in the U.K.? I assume that the copies of LRO we get over here are a few months old by the time they arrive, so the classifies may not be of much use. Are there dealers in the U.K. that carry vehicles that old on a regular basis? What's the current going rate for such a vehicle? I'm budgeting around $800 for the plane ticket, and roughly $1200 for the shipping home. That leaves me $4000US for the vehicle. Is that enough for a respectable 109? Does have any comments or suggestions? I'd love to hear them. Again, I know its a crazy plan, but unrequited love can drive a man mad... Thanks in advance, Grettir P.S. You know, I could avoid all this and just build one from scratch! I'm joking, of course, but I wonder how much it would cost to just build a 109 from spare parts ordered from Merseyside and Rovers North? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 06:21:45 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: The One that Got Away To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 6 May 94 12:06:27 BST Status: RO On the face of it,this has bugger all to do with Land Rovers (again), except for the fact that the little MG J2 and the Rover are (or were) sisters under the skin.There is no vehicle around these days except the Land Rover that will happily accept bits and pieces from all sorts of sources,and still appear roughly original.Or,for that matter,that demand the same "backwoods" maintenance techniques in keeping them running.It seems strange that the first vehicle I ever owned,and the current one,were at the same time the oldest when I bought them,and gave rise to the greatest affection. The J2 was brought home towed behind Father's Jag.This was a 2.4 Litre Mk 1 SE,which lacked a Panhard rod on its back axle,and gave an entertaing bum wriggle whenever it took up the slack on the *very* long towrope. I wonder if a Range Rover without this item would do the same?I had no drivers licence at the time,so the MG was driven by an "Uncle".When I asked father why we had to use such a vast length of rope,his reply was "You dont think I want to be *seen* with you and that thing,do you?". Snob.The MG was pushed into the garage,and examined to see if it would start.No way.The battery was flat for a kickoff.This was located behind the seats in a sort of rack,and was very long and thin.It had to be.You coudnt get a normal battery *down* there.So it went on charge,and we examined the rest of my twelve quids worth.It had woodworm.Its the only car I've ever had to treat with Rentokil.Mind you,the woodworm was east (sorry,easy)to see,because there was no trim in the cockpit.There was a speedo(not connected)and an oil pressure gauge (ditto)and precious little else.Basic,you might say,if you felt polite.Under the gull wing bonnet was a (gulp) Ford eight side valve engine,with its attendant gearbox.This was a popular mod at the time for the following reasons. The original MG J2 engine was a little 948cc (I think) single OHC unit.The crank was a two bearing affair.One at each end.Well,what else? Unfortunately,when pressed,it tended to assume strange shapes in the middle,which upset things a bit.The overhead camshaft was driven,NOT by a belt,not even by chain,but by means of bevel gears on the crank, a vertical shaft in front of the engine,with more bevel gears at the top. Great.Except...the vertical shaft was the generator armature shaft,which in itself wasnt a bad idea,but we were even worse at oil seals then than we are now.So...oil leaked out of the cambox doooown the shaft,and drowned Joe Lucas in oil.The next model of MG,the PA solved these problems,the crank had a centre bearing and the dynamo was given a spinning disc to chuck the oil over the engine instead,but,in this one.....powered by Ford. To start the little beast.The battery was left to power the ignition only. The fuel pump was wired up to the battery charger(we always had BIG home made ones).A large 240V electric motor was hauled out of hiding,and a pulley attached.We made a straight starting handle (no crank)and put a pulley on *that* too.Drilled a hole in a block of wood,and feed the "starting" handle through the hole.Find a belt.Everything was switched on,including the motor. The belt was tensioned by pulling on the wood block.Five minutes later,it ran!The exhaust pipe was copper.What a lovely noise! So,having got a runner certain things had to be attended to.New ash frames for the door bottoms.Trim.This came from the viyl roofs of various scrapped Riley RMF 1.5 litre saloons.Free for the taking.I neede instruments,*and* the speedo had to be made to work.The instruments were taken from a scrapped .....wait for it...Rolls Royce Phantom 11.Temp gauge,ammeter with RR on them. Snob.The speedo is worthy of comment.It was *really* a rev counter.Made by Britsh Jaeger(Smiths?Who are they?),it had a clock type movement I never could fathom out and four scales on the face.RPM,speed in first gear,speed in second,and so on.The trouble was that it was driven off the gearbox originally (Vertical dynamo,dont forget so no take off *there*and no fan belt on the J2 engine,you relied on thermosyphon).I changed the Ford genny for one off a 2.5 litre SS Jaguar,with had a means of running the rev counter at the back.Then made a bracket and ran the speedo by means of a Hoover belt and two little pulleys.YOU try explaining to the assistant in a vacuum cleaner spares shop why you dont care *what* model it is,its got to be *this* length and NO longer. Brakes.Brother,were *these* fun.Trouble was,they were wire operated brakes. The hand and footbrakes worked off the same pedal shaft.The manual said brakes should be adjusted weekly.It was somewhat optimistic in this.The brakes HAD to be adjusted weekly,if not every other day.The manual,by the way,was a single large book,which detailed maintenance on *all* MG models,except the very rare Tiger,from the M Type Midget up to the TC Midget and its Magnette stablemate. Idea for Rovers?The handbrake was far more powerful tan the footbrake.Well it worked on the same shaft and had *much* more leverage,so emergency stops were slam down the foot and haul back the handbrake.One came to a leisurely halt. The handbrake was of the "flyoff" type.That is the ratchet worked backwards as it were.When you pulled it on there was no "click" but you pressed the huge knob on top to set it.To release,pull back,and let go.It flew off. Practically speaking you gave it a clout,and it released on its own.I ALWAYS parked in gear! Tyres.These were about 3.50 X 19,on wire wheels with eared knock off hub caps. I ran about 4.50 X 19 on the back,smaller on the front.The spare was on a rack strapped to the 14 gallon slab tank which was mounted externally at the back. Fuel level was determined by dipping the tank with the jack handle.Fuel gauges were cissy!The shockers were the old Armstrong type,really clutch discs of a sort,with two arms,one bolted to the chassis,one to the axle.Theoretically these could be adjusted by means of a through bolt in the middle,we *all* screwed them up tight and let the chassis do the flexing.The effect was fascinating on rough ground,since the radiator(seen at the end of that long bonnet)tended to lean one way,and the scuttle the other. The spring bushes were bronze,and the outer ends of the springs ran in slots in the front and rear cross members.These were lubricated with grease applied at remote nipples mounted on a row on the bulkhead,or firewall.*Very* civilised.The firewall was literally just that.When the bonnet was lifted you could see the engine one side of it,and your passengers legs,oooooooh! at the other. Suffice it to say that I never wanted to sell that car.PA engines and gearboxes were readily available at the time and would fit.As were hydraulic brakes off old Morris cars. I last saw the old girl about ten years later,parked outside the building where I am now.I could have cried.The interior had benn tarted up to look like,well nothing on earth.Now,of course,I coulnt afford it.I couldnt even afford the number plate.CV 3360. I honestly didnt expect this to end up so long,nor did I intend it to be.So I apologise in advance to anyone who has been bored mindless,by what is,I suppose,largely an irrelevance.Sorry! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 18:54:11 1994 From: spenny@aol.com Sender: "spenny" To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 06 May 94 19:43:16 EDT Subject: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. Status: RO I'm new to this mailing list & would like it if someone would post a list of frequently used acronyms (FUA) Rover some on overx Thanks - Spenny From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 6 19:25:25 1994 Date: Fri, 6 May 94 20:18:19 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Well folks, TeriAnn has reported her good news, now if I may be so bold (and I *mean* bold) as to report the progress on my end, or should I say lack thereof..... Recall if you will that Nige broke yet another rear half axle, and that I am attributing his healthy appetite for axles to his nasty clutch "judder-while-you-shudder" problem. The axle and rear diff rebuild are first on my list....the clutch is *immediately* after that. Immediate is of course a relative term, but this Dixon guy is workin' on me (and all other LRO's in the area) to attend the OVLR b-day part. although it's a month away it has nonetheless set boundaries on the term "immediate". My last three weekends have not been spend beside my dearly beloved Nigel. Nope, not a cold, not raining, no mud (only horse manure, remember?). However, I have had other obligations, like catching some badly needed RandR with my fly rod, and dredging a local swimming hole and doing reparations to an old dam (listing this latter task is intended to not only make a good excuse for not progressing on Nigel's woes, but is also intended to shed some guilt on my brother, Frederic, who is another lurker on this list.....Fred-hope you're feeling mighty guilty right about now. The _whole world_ knows that you once again failed to help me out with this annual task.). ok, enough with the excuses. Last night, after failing once again to catch a trout, I assembled tools, rags, drain pans, etc. and began to remove my broken axle and rear diff. Normally, this is a half-hour job (in US and/or farenheit hours, that is, with sips of cold frosty included). Not this time. Oh, all was drained and the good axle removed in record time, but the busted side just won't come out. Now you're wondering, and I can hear the "tisk tisk tisks" out there, and "yes" is the answer to your question. I _was_ dumb enough to drive with a busted axle without first removing it _and_ the rear prop shaft, despite the fact that I "know better". (I told you this would be a bold statement, didn't I?? So much for what little good reputation I had left....) Once again, the choice was to leave it there, unattended, with all its loadings (this time it had my friend's brand new $500 barbie in it, a weber "celestrial 1000", with four sets of burners. Boy does it cook a good bbq chicken!), or to take a chance. Unlike last time, when upon draining the rear end I was delighted to find not a spec 'o metal, this time was a different story.... it was the anticipated "metalflake oil". Uh, oh. I plan to do the bearings anyway (hence the just drive it attitude), and can only hope the gears survived. So now I have this stuck axle in the casing problem. Having not yet retrieved it, I am unsure of whether driving it made my situation any worse. It could've been bent badly to begin with, or driving it could've mushroomed the end a bit. I tried prying it out (put the drive flange partially on and pryed from behind... boy can that thing take a beating without showing so much as a scratch on the mated surface....impressive), and also tried placing some solid plates of metal behind the drive flange, resting them against the rim and the lug nuts, then cranking on the nut on the axle shaft itself to extract it out. No dice. I stopped as I began to strip the threads. I contemplated using a "suitable drift" to bang it out from the other side......but it'll have to be an excessively long one.... a good solid piece of stock iron perhaps, but it has to snake itself in there without doing too much (ie any) damage. Tough. Not gonna work if mushrooming is my problem....probably only make it worse. Charlie at RN had the following suggestions. 1) a slide hammer might do the trick (I also thought this might do it, but I'll be needing an awfully big slide hammer). 2) put the drive flange on backwards, place a good chain around it, and yank it out using another vehicle. Hmmm. Perhaps it is time to break out the ol '39 9N for this job. I wonder what will give first......the half axle, bust the chain, the drive flange, the axle casing (yikes), the tractor hitch????? Boy, this sounds like fun. Place your bets, folks, and I'll give you an update in a day or two. While I was on the phone to RN, I was discussing the costs of doing a rear diff rebuild. Assuming that all I need is bearings (the gears _were_ in excellant shape at last look, but who knows how good or bad they are now that ignoramous himself drove on a busted axle), parts alone come to about $80 US. However, the inner pinion bearing is NLA for a SII and I was told that one from a SIIa will NOT work in its place.....but maybe I could track one down somewhere. So let's say $100 ish in bearings, if I can be so fortunate as to locate the NLA one. I also figured I'd be needing a hefty assortment of shims. I was then advised that special tools were required, and as I began to think it over, I decided I oughta have it done either by RN or by the more local Roverworks folks. Ok. So I figure around $200 US is probably a realistic figure (assuming I need no gears). Then Chris (from RN) informs me of their newest special.....brand new rear diffs just so happen to be on sale this month, folks. In my parts book they go for $1250 US new. They were selling these (they have a dozen or so left) for a mere $395. Brand spankin' new. Can Merseyside beat this, I wonder??? Why wonder, I thought to myself- for $200 more than the cost of a rebuild I could go brand new and have a spare. I splurged. Nigel will have a quiet rear end. This does, of course, place an added sense of urgency on my clutch problem, since the last thing I want to do is to lunch and axle in a brand new diff. Needless to say (perhaps not), I'll be toting along the required tools for an axle extraction from now on. Feeling mighty bold (and stupid), rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:13:02 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: first stuck in the mud From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 10:01:55 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Kurt, who is on this list, has the honour of being the first on that I know of to be stuck in the mud this spring. He phoned me up and asked if I had any experience freeing stuck LRs and if I had any equipment he could borrow. I gathered up the Jack-all, chain, tow strap, cables, traction bars. My Land Rover is still in pieces *sob*. I borrowed my sister's Sable and off we went. When we got there, Kert's Land Rover was stuck down a section of raod road that was between two normal roads, one of which was the gravel bed of a highway in construction, now on hold, that Kurt was trying to get to. Well, beside any highway, there is a drainage ditch, which is exactly where he was stuck. When he told me he was stuck, he neglected to tell me that there was an inch of water over the mud. Attempt one. The theory was to lift the front wheels off the ground and push the truck over on the jack to get a new footing. The jack just sunk into the mud, with me saying " it has to hit something sometime". I was wrong. Canadian mud is very thick and has great suction. It took us half an hour to just get the jack out of the mud. Attempt two. Toe strap around a fence post, attached to one end of Jack-all, chain attached ot other end and to truck, and jack. this works like a manual 8000 pound winch. It took two of us to haul on this thing, and two lengths on the jack, and we pulled it out. We also moved the fence post five inches. This all before sunset, so I got pics. Looking at that mud, anyone could have got stuck there. The only casualty were my boots, which were full of water. They will dry. Since it was not my LR that was stuck, I had a pretty good time. Dale -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:11:50 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: acronyms From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 19:39:42 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Ok, Off the top of my head without loading this up elsewhere and dumping it in like the rest of you do, obviuosly, so excuse the lay out or get a life. 88" or 88 is a short wheel base Land Rover, otherwise described as an SWB LWT is a shortening of lighweight which is refering to the military version of the 88, also can be called 1/2 ton military or airportable to name a couple. 109 is the or 109" is the longwheel base land rover, as in 88, 109 refers to the on centre distance from centre of axles front to rear. Note that this holds true for 101's and 109 FC's(later) AND 110 FC's and 110's but 90's are not 90 inches are neither are 130's, they are mere factory rounded up numbers to the nearest unit of ten. FC refers to a forward control driving position, sometime a factory modification as in the 109, 110 and 101 but outside company as in the redwing or carmichael I think you'll find. 101's were soley produced for the military market and were designed as a gun (105 mm towed) tractor. Rover V8, one of the best ever produced from solihull most people will agree. wheels in the corners and goes like stink. Very intimidating in city traffic. Flat fronted. Some variants come with frame rail side mounted winch, deployable front or rear. 109 FC was a factory produced answer to a marketplace cry for more carrying capacity and space, Superseded by the 110FC. I'll leave these two variants alone as they are common In NA as hens teeth. S1, S2 / SII, S2a / SIIA, S3 / SIII, refer to series variants, produced first as Land Rovers and then became S1's when the S2's were introduced if you follow. 90's and 110's and 130's are current production variants. RR or Rangey or aby phonetic variation thereof refer to Range Rovers, top of the line iin the tri product listing from Land Rover presently. Disco refers to Discovery which is the mid placed in the trio and is placed lower than the range rover in the market place target ed buyers. 2.25L refers to the standard engine for many years fitted to land rovers. earlier vehuicles did have smaller engines. 6cyl refers to a six cylinder ebgine which is much maligned by alot of land rover so called enthusiasts. V8 was originally a North American engine until the thing was bough t outright by the factory for their own use. has lasted a long time and has been fiited to anumber of products as original engines, P/U refeers to the body style, this is a pick-up. ST / HT soft as in canvas top. Hard as in Aluminum top. O/D overdrive unit. PTO power take off, multi position on the land Rover. SW refers to station wagon body style. somewhat unique in that it is devoid of the bulkhead behind the front seats. Can be fitted with a tropical roof, basical a spaced secondary roof to allow circulation of air between the two and reduce heta build upin vehcile. Truck cab refers to a hard ( aluminium) cab that encloses the front seat area only on a pick up. usefull to give drive weather protection but leave cargoi box open for access to load, such as feed for animlas that you may want to get at. well that does it for my impromptu list, over to the engine department I think. Oh one more, NADA, this stands for North American dollar Area and refers to a factory designation of America and canada for the purpose of manufacture and sales. Commonly coupled with 109sw to produce NADA 109 SW. Unique beast. More later. Come back with more why dont you folks out there, dont be shy. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:12:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 20:06:18 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO The big list of acronyms is from Robin carig in Ottawa in case you could not tell by the header, sorry about that. Rgds RObin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:13:06 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 7 May 1994 20:07:25 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Was out today at the local big stamp show, trying to pick up some more Land Rovers in the philatetic variety. Yes I know I collect the strangest stuff, but they are all land Rovers. I do have an article in with Land Rover Owner so be aptient and all will be revealed shortly. I did get a nice surpise today though, found for the first time a 90 in stamp form with a nifty/neat tab attached with the company logo on it. cost a whopping $8.45 for the set of 6 stamps but these stamp people only sell in sets. so I bought a couple to get my sets going, working on building a few setsup fo gifts/ myself etc. The show is on for another day tommorrow and is free addmission so I'll be back on Sunday. Did I ever mention that I have some Land Rover Postcards aswell, quite the cleptomaniac at times you know. Guess I'll have to amned that article to stay current on the latest aquisition though, Rgds Rbin Craig, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 8 01:28:05 1994 From: tomills@diana.cair.du.edu (T.F. Mills) Subject: Re: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. To: spenny@aol.com Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 00:18:45 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405061943.tn237604@aol.com> from "spenny@aol.com" at May 6, 94 07:43:16 pm Content-Type: text Content-Length: 6549 Status: RO < I'm new to this mailing list & would like it if someone would post a list of < frequently used acronyms (FUA) < < Rover some on overx < < Thanks - Spenny You mean these?-- Acronym Dictionary AE In Any Event BTW By the way FWIW For what it's worth FYI For Your Information IAE In any event IANAL I Am Not A Lawyer, also IANA... such as CPA IMO In my opinion IMHO In my humble opinion IMCO In my considered opinion IOW In other words NFW No [bleeping] Way NRN No Reply Necessary OTOH On the other hand PITA Pain in the ass ROFL Rolling on floor laughing. RSN Real Soon Now [which may be a long time coming] RTFM Read the Fine(?) manual SNAFU Situation Normal: All [bleeped] Up SITD Still in the dark TANSTAAFL There Ain't No Such Than A Free Lunch TIA Thanks In Advance (also AtDhVaAnNkCsE) TIC Tongue in cheek TLA Three Letter Acronym (such as this) _________________________________________________________________________ Smilely Dictionary Like prehistoric cave dwellers, the devotees of electronic bulletin-boards and "e-mail" have struggled to find a new way to express themselves. Wall painting would not work. Words, it seems, are not enough. Inarticulate sounds cannot be displayed on screens. To make their messages feel more like personal contact, they have hit on using the punctuation marks on an ordinary keyboard in order to pull faces at each other. To read these signs, you have to put your head on your left shoulder. The basic unit is: :-) the "smiley", a standard smiling face. In context, this can mean "I'm happy to hear from you", or other pleasantries. The smiley can also wink: ;-) or frown: :-( among other things. The language can express many things about the user's appearance: 8-) :-{) :-Q @:-) These signs mean, respectively, that the user wears sunglasses, has a moustache, smokes, wears a turban. The smiley can also indicate some subtleties of mood and response: :-D :-/ :-e :-7 :-X These mean that he is laughing, is sceptical, is disappointed, is wry, is keeping his lips sealed. Many of the signs (perhaps the majority in use on America's biggest computer networks) are simply absurd fun, verging on the unintelligible: :-F *:o) +-:-) @= The user is a buck-toothed vampire with one tooth missing, is a clown, holds religious office, is pro-nuclear. The hieroglyph of our title means that the user is a drunk, devilish chef with a toupee in an updraft, a moustache and a double chin. Now you know what electronic mail is used for. The Unofficial Smilie Dictionary -------------------------------- :-) Your basic smilie. This smilie is used to inflect a sarcastic or joking statement since we can't hear voice inflection over Unix. ;-) Winky smilie. User just made a flirtatious and/or sarcastic remark. More of a "don't hit me for what I just said" smilie. :-( Frowning smilie. User did not like that last statement or is upset or depressed about something. :-I Indifferent smilie. Better than a Frowning smilie but not quite as good as a happy smilie :-> User just made a really biting sarcastic remark. Worse than a :-). :-> User just made a really devilish remark. ;-> Winky and devil combined. A very lewd remark was just made. Those are the basic ones...Here are some somewhat less common ones: (-: User is left handed %-) User has been staring at a green screen for 15 hours straight :*) User is drunk [:] User is a robot 8-) User is wearing sunglasses B:-) Sunglasses on head ::-) User wears normal glasses B-) User wears horn-rimmed glasses :-{) User has a mustache :-{} User wears lipstick {:-) User wears a toupee }:-( Toupee in an updraft :-[ User is a Vampire :-E Bucktoothed vampire :-F Bucktoothed vampire with one tooth missing :-7 User juust made a wry statement :-* User just ate something sour :-)~ User drools :-~) User has a cold :'-( User is crying :'-) User is so happy, s/he is crying :-@ User is screaming :-# User wears braces :^) User has a broken nose :v) User has a broken nose, but it's the other way :_) User's nose is sliding off of his face :<) User is from an Ivy League School :-& User is tongue tied. =:-) User is a hosehead -:-) User is a punk rocker -:-( (real punk rockers don't smile) :=) User has two noses +-:-) User is the Pope or holds some other religious office `:-) User shaved one of his eyebrows off this morning ,:-) Same thing...other side |-I User is asleep |-O User is yawning/snoring :-Q User is a smoker :-? User smokes a pipe O-) Megaton Man On Patrol! (or else, user is a scuba diver) O :-) User is an angel (at heart, at least) :-P Nyahhhh! :-S User just made an incoherent statement :-D User is laughing (at you!) :-X User's lips are sealed :-C User is really bummed :-/ User is skeptical C=:-) User is a chef @= User is pro-nuclear war *<:-) User is wearing a Santa Claus Hat :-o Uh oh! (8-o It's Mr. Bill! *:o) And Bozo the Clown! 3:] Pet smilie 3:[ Mean Pet smilie d8= Your pet beaver is wearing goggles and a hard hat. E-:-) User is a Ham radio operator :-9 User is licking his/her lips %-6 User is braindead [:-) User is wearing a walkman (:I User is an egghead <:-I User is a dunce K:P User is a little kid with a propeller beenie @:-) User is wearing a turban :-0 No Yelling! (Quiet Lab) :-: Mutant Smilie The invisible smilie .-) User only has one eye ,-) Ditto...but he's winking X-( User just died 8 :-) User is a wizard C=}>;*{)) Mega-Smilie... A drunk, devilish chef with a toupee in an updraft, a mustache, and a double chin Note: A lot of these can be typed without noses to make midget smilies. *********************************************************************** Or do you mean these?-- LR Land Rover LRO Land Rover owner T. F. Mills (JALRO) tomills@diana.cair.du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 02:11:45 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Some sadenning news... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 8 May 1994 04:52:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO > Well folks, TeriAnn has reported her good news, now if I > may be so bold (and I *mean* bold) as to report the progress > on my end, or should I say lack thereof..... Some very sad news from this end of the tundra. A Land Rover (late Series IIA, 88 pick-up) broke up in two while being towed from a site near Ottawa. Land Rover bits down quite a bit of roadway... A damage assessment will have to take place to see how bad the damage is from the vehicle folding in two. The parts supply might just get streatched in getting some of the mid pieces off of one of the parts vehicles. However, the other three (and maybe a fifth in the next couple of days) all made it to another OVLR member's storage site at his farm. I guess this brings me to four Land Rovers (I own the "half" of these four, two 88's and two 109 pick-ups) Not too bad for an afternoons work... :-) Condition reports to follow... As per Birthday Party details, they are ready, but sitting in Word Perfect format right now. Soon... :-) OVLR is planning at least another two overnight off-road journeys this summer/fall, one to ke down a power cut that is apparently quite excellent. The lack of RN and ABP events has us a bit busy up here. Rgds, Dixon PS. When did Rover change the distributor shaft in the old style Lucas distributor?. There are two types. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 8 22:38:40 1994 Date: Sun, 8 May 94 23:30:24 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Nigel update........ Saturday, Nigel and I got a late start-had to finish off work on the dam first (more guilt for ya, Fred). By mid afternoon it was time to yank that busted half shaft outa the axle casing. Tried removing the diff first on the odd chance that the half shaft was broken in just the right place. It wasn't. Next was tried a BIG ROCK (and a comealong w/chain), with the drive flange affixed backwards on the half shaft for extra grab- ability. No go. What was needed was a good heavy jerk. So we fired up the 9N, got the two perpedicularly aligned and attached by thick heavy chain (w/an old tire threaded in for added protection should something go flying), and we yanked. And yanked. And.....I began to wonder, as I watched the nearside tires bulge and the farside tires lift, how much was it gonna take?? How much before Nige tips over?? How much before the tires roll off the rims?? How much before the chain breaks?? One or two heavy yanks later it let go-the shaft was out. The diff was then easily removed. Fortunately, no broken teeth....gears appear to be in fine shape. Set it aside as a spare, as the new one ($395 US) should arrive UPS on monday. (You may call it overkill but I call it a bargin...until Dixon tells me Merseyside sells them _brand_new for $350). Moved my butt to the passenger compartment, and started in on the floors and seatbox. Cold frosty time settled in rather quickly..... Sunday, the trek to the tranny and cruise to the clutch was finished off. The plan was to move the tranny back about a half foot, and not completly remove it from the vehicle, so the Fairey had to go. Once all was ready, and the bell housing supported by wood on the cross member, the task of backing that tranny up began. Wasn 't quite sure just where to put the jack.....no one place seemed good to hold it all. Choices were up front, at the right side of the transfer case (lowest point), or on the left rear. With added wood under the rear cross member the front spot was chosen. All was well for the actual extraction phase, but as the tranny moved back things got a little hairy (I am single handed at this point). With some finesse, and using all four limbs on my body, the tranny was secured, help was summoned, and the jack and a jackstand were relocated to either side of the transfer case. The clutch was then removed in short order. The friction plate appears to be relatively new, but I', not sure if it's OEM (it is an english make, Borg-Beck if I remember correctly; both names reminiscent of aftermarket american companies, Borg-Warner and Beck-Arnley.....perhaps there's a connection??). Both the flywheel and the pressure plate are pretty scuffed up-not scored, but scuffed. Neither was evenly buffed clean and shiny like I suppose it should be. Haven't yet measured the flywheel run-out, nor the pressure plate thickness. The clutch withdrawl unit appears to be working normally. There's a tad of oil around, which appears to have come from the transmission, but not much-just a trace on the bottom of the bell housing. Me wonders if this oil is to blame for my woes, and if a smidgen of oil on the mating faces of the friction plate could've burned on the pressure plate and the flywheel and left the scuff marks. There doesn't appear to be enough to fly around. The mating surfaces themselves are dry and free of any oil. Hmm. Nigel's clutch judder symptoms were as follows: Upon starting in either first or reverse it was as though there was no rub to the clutch....as soon as it engaged full power was delivered to the rear end and most often he literally bounced to a start. Not good for the motor mounts, U-joints, rear axles, nor any gear in between. Clutch itself (as opposed to master and slave hydraulics) was felt at the pedal only after the slave cylinder reached about half its travel........this makes me wonder if the operating levers on the clutch were adjusted correctly (which can be checked but haven't yet). Some specific questions for those of you kind helpful souls who are still with me: a) should the friction plate and flywheel surfaces be perfectly clean and evenly polished as I presume? b) should the entire bell housing be dry as a bone, or can some amount of oil seepage into it be tolerated? c) can I replace the withdrawl bearing while the tranny is moved back, or will I need to take it out first? Is it worth the effort? (Do I want to do this again??) I am tempted to replace both the friction and pressure plates, maybe even the clutch springs as well. I've got this classic case of fip shitters disease, and having been three years from the grad student/postdoc scene I now have holes where my wallet used to be. Nige would love me for it. (Next I'll have to re-return to the swivel pin housings and replace those cones and springs with Railco bushes.....Nigel's other persistant problem is a left front wheel wobble ya get when ya hit bumps just wrong, and its been traced to a cone that doesn't exactly fit its shaft just right.) Thanks in advance, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 06:04:58 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Urequited Love To: grettir@keflavik.wordperfect.com (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Mon, 9 May 94 11:54:50 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405061807.AA07636@keflavik.wordperfect.com>; from "Grettir Asmundarson" at May 6, 94 11:07 am Status: RO You might just manage what you want for the money,depending on the exchange rate.109" machines are generally less popular over here,so rend to fetch a bit less money.(I'm open to contradiction on that statement,though). Whilst the classified ads in LRO are probably,as you say,out of date,you might consider getting in touch with some of the more reputable "dealers",like,for instance,Warwick 4X4.This particular firm springs to mind,because I beleive they have been known to handle the entire export package in the past.It just *may* be a cheaper way to do it,or you could put your air fare towards the vehicle,thus having a bit more to spend on it.I can look up their phone no if you like.I might add that personally I,ve had nothing to do with them,but they *do* seem to have a good reputation. Any help? Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 06:48:05 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Acronyms To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 9 May 94 12:32:38 BST Status: RO I think you've about covered the lot,Robin.Except for FWH,used for Free Wheel Hubs,used to disconnect the front wheels from the driveline when on road.And Land Rover's very own,quaint,LHstng and RHstng (or is it stg?),for Left hand and Right hand steering. Also,when tackling the ills that the beast is heir to,WW or Whit stands for Whitworth threads,so 1/4" Whit refers to the *shank* size of the bolt,*not* the head.When it aint Whit,its A/F.So all right,the purist *could* argue that B.A is also present,but the size is so small you will have lost the spanner anyway....... Personally,I use pliers on these,the Stillsons wont go down that far. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 07:40:53 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 08:31:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: Re: A.C.R.O.N.Y.M.S. To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: spenny@aol.com, lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405080618.AA11733@diana.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO we also used the following acronyms... F.M. - fine (?) magic BTFOM - beats the (bleep) outa me (these were quite common in our computer room and i find they come in handy when i'm describing rover related issues as well...) jan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 07:48:24 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 08:36:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Jan Hilborn Subject: Re: first stuck in the mud To: Dale Desprey Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Is being the first stuck in this year's mud the sort of thing one brags about? If so, I may win since i was stuck in my driveway a good six weeks ago. My winch wouldn't engage and i was all set to go back to the barn for my come-a-long when some ice fishermen happened by and with a side comment of "i thought these things didn't get stuck" pulled me out. jan (who gets stuck in the quick-mud of my driveway nearly once every spring...) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 09:56:56 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 07:44:38 -0700 (PDT) From: James B Russell Subject: Oil Filters To: lro@stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should know about? Thanks... James B. Russell ==== jrussell@netcom.com (Seattle -- San Francisco) From ccray Mon May 9 10:19:31 1994 Subject: Re: Oil Filters (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:19:31 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2371 Status: RO ccray was bold enough to point out... From ccray Mon May 9 10:18:38 1994 Subject: Re: Oil Filters To: jrussell@netcom.com (James B Russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: from "James B Russell" at May 9, 94 07:44:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1528 James B Russell was bold enough to point out... > >I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter >adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how >painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on >hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should >know about? > I got mine from Rovers North for about $40. I know there are other sources and maybe you can save $10. It takes a PF8 which I think is about the most common here in the US. Apparently, (based on an earlier LRO dialog) it is possible to install these incorrectly causing severe engine damage. The spin-on is much better than the old canister. The straw that broke the camels back -- It took about 5 tries with one o-ring -- about 5 tries with a NEW o-ring and the blasted thing still leaked. I was tightening so hard I felt I would surely strip the center bolt or alumimun casting. So, I left Lulu set for the week whilst the spin-on adapter came thru the mail. Was one of the best investments I ever made. I kept (of course) the old canister adapter in case someone (not me) wanted to go back to original. Later... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 10:33:20 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Oil Filters To: jrussell@netcom.com (James B Russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: from "James B Russell" at May 9, 94 07:44:38 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1527 Status: RO James B Russell was bold enough to point out... > >I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter >adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how >painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on >hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should >know about? > I got mine from Rovers North for about $40. I know there are other sources and maybe you can save $10. It takes a PF8 which I think is about the most common here in the US. Apparently, (based on an earlier LRO dialog) it is possible to install these incorrectly causing severe engine damage. The spin-on is much better than the old canister. The straw that broke the camels back -- It took about 5 tries with one o-ring -- about 5 tries with a NEW o-ring and the blasted thing still leaked. I was tightening so hard I felt I would surely strip the center bolt or alumimun casting. So, I left Lulu set for the week whilst the spin-on adapter came thru the mail. Was one of the best investments I ever made. I kept (of course) the old canister adapter in case someone (not me) wanted to go back to original. Later... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 10:41:03 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Oil Filters (fwd) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:19:31 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2370 Status: RO ccray was bold enough to point out... >From ccray Mon May 9 10:18:38 1994 Subject: Re: Oil Filters To: jrussell@netcom.com (James B Russell) Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 10:18:38 -0500 (CDT) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) In-Reply-To: from "James B Russell" at May 9, 94 07:44:38 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1528 James B Russell was bold enough to point out... > >I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with spin-on oil filter >adaptors for the 2.25L. Is it a good idea and, if so, who sells them, how >painful are they to install, and what (if any) extra parts should be on >hand when doing the installation? Are there any negatives one should >know about? > I got mine from Rovers North for about $40. I know there are other sources and maybe you can save $10. It takes a PF8 which I think is about the most common here in the US. Apparently, (based on an earlier LRO dialog) it is possible to install these incorrectly causing severe engine damage. The spin-on is much better than the old canister. The straw that broke the camels back -- It took about 5 tries with one o-ring -- about 5 tries with a NEW o-ring and the blasted thing still leaked. I was tightening so hard I felt I would surely strip the center bolt or alumimun casting. So, I left Lulu set for the week whilst the spin-on adapter came thru the mail. Was one of the best investments I ever made. I kept (of course) the old canister adapter in case someone (not me) wanted to go back to original. Later... -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx ------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 10:45:02 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 94 11:34:14 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO few more acronyms for ya... some fave suppliers: RN Rovers North AB Atlantic British BP British Pacific CT Canadian Tyre (where Canadians get everything from snow mobile suits t to sparkplugs. Usually located right beside the beer store.) and I s'poze some of my faces may need explaining: *:o Me with my funky doo (you have to see it freshly mowed to get the full effect) after breaking yet another half axle. *:[] Me with my funky doo struggling solo with my tranny. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 14:54:52 1994 Date: Mon, 9 May 1994 15:42:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: Re: BANG! repair update To: TeriAnn Wakeman Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9405061637.AA08455@apple.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO The gods must be crazy, but they sure are smilin' on YOU!!! GOOD SHOW!!!! steve... HEY, NICE JEEP MISTER!...................IT'S "NOTAJEEP" Steven M. Denis PO BOX 61 Erieville,NY 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 9 15:42:54 1994 Date: Mon, 09 May 1994 16:15:42 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Grettir's Unrequieted Love Status: RO Grettir Asmundarson writes with questions about importing early Rovers. One of our club members, Robert Davis, has been doing this reg