From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 08:03:28 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 1 Apr 94 14:49:27 BST Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Robin Craig" at Mar 31, 94 6:33 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Robin Craig asks: > On the early military series two lightweight's the badge on the front was > an enlarged oval made out of plastic, somewhat similar to the plastic > badge on the 110 / 90 series at one stage. the dealer says that this is > not so. > Any comments please? Early Lightweight SII's over here had metal mesh grilles and metal oval badge (and wings w/o headlights). The term 'lightweight' was something of a misnomer of course. Best Regards, Steve. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 10:51:41 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 11:03:19 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Top-end Lubricator X-Status: Status: RO >> and a local equivalent to Marvel Mystery Oil? >I had always thought that Marvel Mystery Oil was just automatic >transmission fluid, being more of a solvent than an oil. It was fairly >common to add it to a running engine through the carb to clean out some of >the carbon, or add it to the oil to free sticky valves (be sure to change >the oil soon though :-). -Pete- According to the blurb that came with the lubricator, Marvel Mystery Oil has a higher flash point than normal internal combustion temperatures, so it supposedly can lubricate without being consumed in the process. If true, I'd be certain to disconnect the thing if going in for an emission control test. Marvel is also suggested as a cold-weather oil thinner, particularly for diesel engines. It can also be added to fuels, either petrol or diesel. Besides, the stuff smells so good, you could use it for a dessert topping! :-) *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 11:52:50 1994 Date: Fri, 01 Apr 1994 11:56:30 EST From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Internet message X-Status: Status: RO Russell writes: >as for my compression woes...this sounds like a good idea, but i am not >familiar with these babies-are they bolt-on or do i have to drill holes in >my intake manifold to install them??....if i run out of marvel, will it >suck air??? The Ampco lubricator is fairly easy to install on a 2.25. Locate a place for the bottle (the units comes in pint and quart sizes): I chose the pint size and a place next to the screen washer bottle on the inner wing (Series III). Available from the distributor are various thin adapter plates that sandwich to the bottom of the carb base so's you don't have to drill or tap anything, but of course, this doesn't include Rovers. The zenith set up on the 2.25 has a 3/4" or so tall aluminum distance piece...what the PCV valve is connected to...just above the bakelite distance piece that actually sits on the intake manifold. The metal is easy to drill and tap, though not on the vehicle, of course :-(. The unit comes with an injector that is 1/8 or 1/4" NPT (national pipe thread) with a compression nut fitting for the copper tubing to the bottle and meter assembly. The instructions suggest forming the copper tube into a an 'anti-vibration coil'. Even so, I found that the engine vibrations would shear off the copper tube right at the compression nut. Fitted 1" of neoprene tubing in place, and it has been trouble free for 20,000 miles. I still use a lead substitute as well, though. There are other optional attachment points, such as the vacuum port on the intake manifold (late IIa's and III's), but then it may not provide even distribution to all cylinders. Perhaps on V-8's the tubing could be T'ed to two or more points to equalize the flow. The unit draws so little air that it wouldn't be noticeable when depleted. Another point...Marvel seems to dissolve every known sealant compound... Permatex hard and soft, silicones, RTV, even Hylomar. Reminds me of the chemist who invented a universal solvent...then he could't find anything to keep it in :-). Good day to y'all. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 1 19:32:32 1994 To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: Supplier list Date: 1 Apr 1994 17:11 PDT Organization: California Institute of Technology News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41x4 X-Status: Status: RO In article <199404012310.RAA01832@mail.utexas.edu>, hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes... >4/1/94 > > >---------- >British Pacific >Steve Hedke >3317 Burton Ave. >Burbank, CA 91504 >Tel.(818)841-8945 >800-554-4133 >Fax.(818)841-3825 > > Benjamin Smith says "As for British Pacific, the sell only Genuine parts, >but they buy them from Rovers North. So British Pacific's prices are >higher than RN! The lastissue of British Pacific's catalog did not contain >prices. >They also keep a very small selection of items in stock. If you want a big >piece, >like a leaf spring, they will have to order it for you from RN and charge >you RN's price+shipping+BP's markup." Brad Blevins reports thought that >they have cut prices recently. > >---------- Brad is right. British Pacific has a new owner as of January, 1994. Steve Hedke has cut prices and is replenishing stock that has been low for years. He seems to have the right attitude, and lots of enthusiam for the marque. British Pacific is now below Rovers North (on some stuff, WAY below), and their parts are genuine. Some prices I got: 109 Dual master cyl: 125.00 109 front brake shoes: 23.00 axles short/long: 57.00/59.00 4 cyl headset: 24.00 16" rims: NRC7578 - 59.00, 239601 - 63.00 waterpump: 81.00 88" springs: ftlft - 68, ftrt - 66.00, rrlft - 95.00, rrrt - 86.00 yes, different springs for all four corners! They also stock wire in STOCK colors for looms, and lots of different Lucas connectors and bits. Used parts too. Hopefully they will be able to maintain these prices; they will re-evaluate the pricing structure in September. This Rover shop has been around for a long time, and a lot of us around here have been waiting for it to come up to its potential. It looks like it may have a chance! Randy Rose Pasadena, California (818)395-3840 rsrose@iago.caltech.edu California Institute of Technology From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Apr 2 14:41:43 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Sat, 02 Apr 94 15:16:09 EST Encoding: 1105 Text To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, rally@stratus.com Subject: New York Auto Show Content-Length: 1084 X-Status: Status: RO A quick report from the NY Auto Show -- Land Rover had its new Discovery on display -- both stripped ($28,900) and loaded ($34,000). Only differences were auto versus 5 speed, twin sunroofs, leather and a couple of minor options. First sport/ute with dual airbags and 4 channel ABS. The Discovery is much better looking in the flesh than in the pictures published in Automobile and others...LR also had a fully loaded Discovery from the Camel GT rally...neat stuff... Each dealer now has one to show, none to go. Inventory is expected in May. LR also showed a new Range Rover with an updated dash including twin airbags. I believe that this is the early 1995 model, replacing an abbreviated 1994 run. For those of you that have to know -- $53,000! The show runs through next week at the Javits Center - 8 bucks for adults, 2 for kids. A lot of fun BTW, I'm not yet getting mail from the Rally or LR owner list, maybe this will help move things along. Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 08:18:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Weekend activities thus far... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 2 Apr 1994 23:06:36 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well, a most productive weekend thus far. After discussing the fascinating progress occurring on Dale's rebuild (got that first bolt out yet?) Friday night and an evening of recovery it was off to the usual spot in Almonte. Arriving at a suitably fashioanble time I discovered George sitting in the passenger seat of his 109 pick-up. Before him was a circuit tester, the wiring diagram for an early Series IIA positive earth taped to the windscreen, a Land Rover Series IIA factory manual to his right opened to the later negative earth wiring diagram, and to round everything out, yet another manual opened on the right wing of my 109 to yet another, different wiring diagram. He didn't look happy... :-) Time to distract him, as I had a set of bearings and rings in the Rabbit. Dumping the oil and the anti-freeze took only a moment before it was time for a break. By this time Ted had arrived and unfortunately for me, was highly motivated. It took all of about fifteen minutes to pull the head off of the engine and see what was happening in there. Starting with pulling all of the wires, disconnecting the Weber, the temperature sensor, oil pipe, and other easy stuff. With me under the Land Rover pulling the sump off, Ted used an impact gun to get all of the head bolts out. Undoing the exhaust, we were able to pull off the head. Carbon build-up wasn't *that* bad, though it was obvious that the engine had been run lean for a while. Two of the exhaust valves had been played with at one point and were flush with the head. The piston tops were carbonned up, with one showing early signs of malting once in the past. The engine turned freely with little resistance. George and I pulled the first piston. It, like all of the rest, required a little hammering from underneath to get the rings to clear the ridge that had built up in all of the bores. Once a piston was out, it was wire wheeled to clean off all of the carbon deposits, washed down in varsol to clean out the grooves. One interesting thing was the difference between the rings found on the piston, and those that replaced them. The rings found were as follows. The top ring was a single ring, as was the replacement. The middle ring had a thing spring-like insert running about under the ring. The replacement didn't. The original bottom ring had four parts. An underlying spring, a main ring, and two thin spacer rings on the top and bottom. The replacement set didn't have these spacers. The new rings in place, the piston was pushed back down the bore and with new bearings re-bolted onto the crank. With the first piston, we could fairly easily turn over the engine. With the second piston turning over the engine became more difficult. By the time we had the fourth piston in, we could turn over the engine. We could barely move the engine with a breaker bar on the crank. Definately a tight engine... With the pistons replaced, we torqued down the rods, and replaced the head and did up all of the bolts. By six o'clock, we were ready to call it quits and retire for the evening. Not too bad for a leasurely afternoon I guess. This morning, the task of the day was to finish off the remaining work and actually get the Land Rover going. loosening the sump, we got the last three bolts in, hooked up the mechanical temperature sensor, hooked up the Weber, added all sorts of oil soaked & swollen wires (the replacements are in transit), added oil, anti-freeze, and were finally ready to go by about 11am. With much effort we managed to push the 109 out of the garage where we drove up Ted's 88 and tried boosting the engine. No such luck, the engine didn't even budge, though the volt meter in Ted's LR showed a significant drop. Pushing it further down the door yard, we got it in position where we could attach a bloody great chunk of rope. Down the driveway we went. Once on the road, Ted got the pair of vehicle up to about 20 mph, when in 3rd gear I dropped the clutch. The engine instantly turned over, but you couldn't apply any gas before some rather spectacular backfiring shot up through the carb. (The 109 was sans-bonnet for this). Due to large crowds and traffic at the maple sugar bush on the next property, we had to stop for a moment be fore trying again down the road. By the time we got down to the next sugar bush, some 1/4 of a mile, the 109 could actaully maintain a fast idle while at rest. Disconnecting the two LRs, Ted followed me about the block (well, about a four mile circuit) while the 109 struggled with the new rings. Going back to George's we let the 109 idle for a while, before it was nearly out of gas. Tomorrow I will be bringing more gas, and another drive around the block will be in order. Maybe even some mud... :-) Rgds, Dixon PS. Dale, you got rings and bearings in my last order... :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Apr 3 18:17:26 1994 Date: Sun, 3 Apr 94 17:45:42 -0400 From: ad158@dayton.wright.edu (Andrew Steele) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Wall St Journal X-Status: Status: RO >From the Tuesday, March 29 Wall Street Journal, B-Section How to Drive an Off-Road Car Off the Road, by staff writer Neal Templin (I'll try to cover the high points) EASTNOR CASTLE, England-I take my foot off the brakes and start down "Gearbox Hill," a steep, muddy track that looks more suitable for mountain goats than motor vehicles. The Land Rover rumbles down the bumpy ruts like a train on rails. Suddenly, the huge four-wheel-drive vehicle begins veerinf off the track as my instructor yells, Steer straingt!" Despite my best efforts to do exactly that, the Land Rover continues to drift sideways on the steep hillside until it violently clouts a tree, which some From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 09:37:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: wrinkle paint From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 09:05:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes: > Wrinkle paint used to be available in spray cans at almost any hardware stor > A while back it was taken off the sheleves here in the SF Bay area because > it was supposedly bad for the ozone or harp seals or spotted lemmings or > whatever. But, I thought it was just a local outbreak of fanatical stupidity. > Maybe it's outlawed everywhere. It is correct for your LR horn button. > > R, bg > > > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Mar 31 10:51:16 1994 > > Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu > > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > > Subject: wrinkle paint > > Content-Length: 366 > > X-Lines: 8 > > > > i was asking what would be a good finish for the steering wheel cap (from > > which i had stripped the original/flaking paint during the frame-up) and > > charlie at rover's north suggested something called black "wrinkle paint." > > he said it was like the paint used on some consumer electronics, etc. i > > have been unable to locate such a beast. anyone have any ideas? > > > > -jory > > > > Check out Eastwood Tools, Fax: 610 644 0560. They have it in Black, Brown and Red. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 12:10:25 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 4 Apr 94 17:00:03 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Land Rover Mailing List Request Content-Type: Text Status: RO Dixon & Sandy, Thanks for your advice about attempting to reach William Callocia regarding my being included on the LRO mailing list. I did forward my name and site to him last week but have not yet received a response. He may be on vacation. I got my 88 on the road this weekend. I forgot how much fun it is to re-learn the art of double clutching the IIA Gearbox. Not that I've ever fully mastered it. Outside of filling the RH swivel housing, nothing needed any attention. It seems that on both my Rovers the RH swivel balls are more badly pitted than the LH. I wonder if it is due to the RH side being subject to road shoulder gravel, water, and salt? Is the opposite true for the UK and Australia? This weekend I also dissasembled the head off my 109. I bought new stellite exhaust valves from Rovers North along with guides and planned to have hardened steel exhaust seats installed. As I checked the play of the intake valves in their guides I noticed a couple of them were a bit sloppy. Upon removing the valves I could see significant wear on the two intake valves in question. I was suprised, as the vacuum in the intake manifold tends to draw oil into the intake valve guides and those guides and valves usually do not wear (as opposed to the exhaust guides where the positive exhaust pressure tends to blow the oil out of those guides). I ordered new intake valves and guides and expect to drop the head off at my machine shop by the weekend. I'll let you know what $ the head work comes to. One thing puzzles me. When I placed my last order through Paddock I requested a set of stellite exhaust valves. They said they had never heard of such a thing. I replied that they are a heavier duty valve with a heat resistant coating used for unleaded fuel applications. I was told that they did not have such a valve for 2.25 heads, but that the valves from a 2.5 head would handle unleaded. Not knowing the interchangability of guides, keepers, and spring caps, I decided to buy them locally. If anyone could shed some light on this subject, please let me know. I have also heard third hand that 109 SW springs on the rear of an 88 give it a nicer ride. If anyone has had any experience with this application please let me know. The springs that are currently on my 88 are bastardized from many different springs. It sits fairly level, but there are different numbers and thicknesses of leaves on the springs of the same axle. It tends to crab down the road (only noticable from behind) and bumps can be quite exiting. If anyone would like to reply to me please use: mordor!njncaps!attmail!attbl!wmalon I am not yet on the LRO mailing list but I'll let you know when it happens. Thanks Bill Maloney 201 428-3491 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 15:55:00 1994 Date: Mon, 04 Apr 1994 16:31:40 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Destruction of... Status: RO Typically, in tech-help pieces, newsgroup members describe various techniques to get you back from an off-road calamity. Well, what happens if you can't bring your vehicle back? Say you're driving through the desert one fine afternoon, but as (bad) luck would have it, you just happen to get bogged down in the sand at the same moment you are accosted by an Iraqi mechanized battalion. Obviously, you do not want those chuckle-heads taking your prize back to cruise the boulevards of Baghdad, so you dig out the "USER HANDBOOK, Truck, Utility, 3/4 Ton, 4 X 4 (Military 109 Pub. 3/82)" from the kit and turn to page 183, Section V: "Destruction of Equipment to Prevent Enemy Use". Sec. 402 DEGREE OF DAMAGE. (1) Methods of destruction should achieve such damage to equipment and essential spare parts so that it will not be possible to restore the equipment to a usable condition in the combat zone either by repair or by cannibalization. (3) Any classified documents, notes, instructions or other written material pertaining to function, operation, maintenance or employment, including drawing or parts lists, must be destroyed in a manner to render them useless to the enemy. Sec. 403 PRIORITIES FOR DESTRUCTION. (1) Priority must be given to the destruction of classified equipment and associated documents. (3) Equipment Priority Destruction: 1) Carburetor and distributor; 2) Engine block and cooling system; 3) Tyres; 4) Hydraulic system; 5) Axle and suspensions; 6) Body. Sec. 407 REPORTING. The reporting of the destruction of equipment is to be done through the command channels. Sec. 408 METHODS OF DESTRUCTION. The following information is for guidance only. Of the several means of destruction, those most generally applicable are as under. Sec. 409 MECHANICAL. This requires an axe, pick, crowbar or similar implement. The vehicle and radio installation should be destroyed in accordance with the priorities given in para. 403. Sec. 410 BURNING. (5) With all hatches and windows open to admit air for combustion, pour gasoline and oil over the entire vehicle. Ignite by means of an incendiary grenade fired from a safe distance, by a burst from a flame thrower, by a combustible train of suitable length, or by appropriate means. *WARNING:* Cover must be taken without delay since an early explosion of the fuel tank may be caused by the fire. Due consideration should be given to the highly flammable nature of gasoline and its vapour. Carelessness in its use may result in painful burns. Sec. 411 GUNFIRE. (1) Remove and empty the portable fire extinguishers. (2) Smash all vital components such as carburetor, distributor, spark plugs, lightswitches, instruments and control levers. Destroy the radio equipment by smashing with a heavy implement. (3) Smash the engine block, engine cylinders, gearbox, transfer box, axle and suspension. (4) Drain or puncture the fuel tank. (5) Destroy the vehicle by gunfire, using adjacent gun tanks, self propelled guns, artillery, rifles using rifle grenades, or launchers using anti-tank rockets. Fire on the vehicle, aiming at the road wheels, engine compartment and transmission. Although one well-placed direct hit *may* render the vehicle *temporarily* useless, several hits are usually required for complete destruction unless an intense fire is started, in which case the vehicle may be considered destroyed. *WARNING*: Firing artillery at ranges of 500 yards or less should be done from cover. Firing rifle grenades or anti-tanks rockets should also be done from cover. Let me see if I've got this straight: First, you smash up everything with a weighty implement. Then you hit the vehicle with *several* high explosive, anti-tank rounds, after which it *might* be rendered inoperable, but only if it burns fiercely! Jeez, and all you have to do to destroy a Detroit-built vehicle is drive it for a while! Looks like I'm going to have to add a few items to the spares kit: if anyone knows where I can get a good, low-mileage flame thrower or a few rifle- or rocket-propelled grenades, please ring me up at the club HQ. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 23:03:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Badges... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 22:02:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Robin, about six months ago you mentioned at an OVLR meeting what do do with old badges that are flaking. I have the original badge from the front of my 109 Station Wagon here, and it is half white metal, with the flaking paint. How would I remove the paint and re do it? I belive you mentioned something about EasyOff... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Apr 4 21:44:13 1994 Date: Mon, 4 Apr 1994 22:33:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Christopher Cuel Barbeau Subject: BMW acquisition To: Land Rover Maillist Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Thought that folk might be interested in this. A US slant, but interesting, since details of the deal and the ensuing reactions aren't in news over here. --chris '69 88 IIa Acquisitions column in Chilton's March 1994 Automotive Industries BMW Buys Rover; Britain Goes Ballistic (Cartoon from the Daily Star showing a two japanese driving a topless defender off the assembly line with a german military officer 'sieg heil'ing (sp?) and some soldiers in the back (maybe ment to represent Brit gov?) ommitted) When BMW announced it would by 80% of Rover for 1.2 billion from British Aerospace last month, it touched a raw nerve with the British people. "The Invasion of the Huns," screamed the headlines from the tabloid Daily Express. "God help British industry," blared Today. According to London automotive analyst Karl Ludvigsen, the takeover by BMW is a "bitter set-back." Selling off Rover means losing the last of the great British carmakers. Nevertheless, more prudent Britons know that Rover had no alternative. One motor industry consultant's comment: "It's a pity, but Rover is not viable on its own." Despite the impressive turnaround, the automaker cannot survive by itself. In terms of technology, Rover is almost entirely dependent on Honda, which owns 20%. The Rover 400, 600 and 800 are all Honda cars built under license. Thanks to Honda, Rover made an impressive comeback in its last fiscal year, after two years of losses. With sales of 4.3 billion pounds, Rover managed for the first time to post an operation profit of 56 million pounds. On top of that, Rover was the only European carmaker to increase sales last year. Rover sold 387, 716 vehicles in Europe, an increase of 8% on the previous year. Its market share in Western Europe rose from 2.5 to 3.5%, stealing share from both Mercedes and Toyota. BMW gets a full range of vehicles, as well as the rights to 17 famous brand names, including MG, Austin, Range Rover, Riley and Triumph. Most importantly, with Land Rover, BMW will beat Mercedes-Benz into the lucrative US sport-utility market. Marketing cars under the Sterling brand, Rover pulled out of the US in the late `802. A comeback is now more than likely with the aid of BMW's stateside distribution network. For its part, Honda tried up to the last minute to raise its 20% of Rover stake to 48% -- it deliberately wanted to avoid taking a majority stake. But Rover's main share-holder British Aerospace only wanted to sell its entire 80% share -- and Honda doesn't have the cash. Now BMW and Honda UK have to negotiate their common future -- if there is one. Honda is acting hurt. "We are not interested in working with BMW," the company says. Experts on Japan believe that Honda will pull out of its cooperation with Rover within the next two years. -Stephan Marquardt From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 21:40:35 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Easyoff... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 12:00:23 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Seems somehow someone along the line managed to merge two messages together thus rendering my original question incomprehensible. No matter, the intended recieient of the message saw one word, figured out he was the guilt party and answered. Below is the answer, but to start, the original question posed was thus: If you have a badge that is losing its paint quickly to the elements, how do you get all of the old stuff off, so that you can add a nice coat of black paint. As the two badges on the 109 are beginning to look pretty tatty, as well as being unreadible in their current paint/half silver backdrop, an easy solution was required. Robin supplied the answer... --------- Dixon, I saw something tagged onto the last message on LRO about easy off. I have used original lemon (yellow can) easy off for the longest time as a paint remover. It works well on metal or plastic and will not melt the plastic in any way. Take the item to be cleaned and make sure it is dry to start with. Put it in the set in sink in the basement. Take a large breath and do no not inhale now (work fast!). Spray a geneous caot over the object allowing the foam to buid up and completly cover the item. Exit stage left. After about 1 to 2 hours revisit the sink. make sure that the easy off has not dried up if all possible. Take a toothe brush or a similar device, nail brush would do. Run warm water over the object and scrub at the same time. caution if you have any open cuts on your hands they will burn like abastard if they come into contact with the run off mixture. If tis did not tottally remove the paint then let the item stand and DRY completely before starting over again. If the item is still wet then it will repell the easy off for attemp number two. I have taken a front badge for a Land Rover, ser 2 that had been on a military at BATUS and was just caked with paint. After 3 apllications it was clean. I also use this for my scale models when the painting goes wrong as i can completly clean the whole thing without damaging the fine detail. rgds robin ------------- Rgds, Dixon PS: The 109 started almost instantly yesterday. The engine turned over about three times before firing. So while Dale toiled away in an office, the 109 raced around the fields and swamps of Almonte... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 12:16:14 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 12:58:20 -0400 (EDT) From: "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Transmission Status: RO Hello everyone! This is the first time I have sent out anything since being on the mail list so bear with me please. My name is Stuart Moore and I live in Salem Virginia. I am graduating from Roanoke College in May and one of my first projects after graduation is going to be getting my dad's 1961 Series II 88" back on the road (or the mud). The first and main thing I'm going to need for this old workhorse is a transmission. When we were driving it last (1985) first gear was chipped badly and unusable. Reverse was in almost the same condition. It also had a terrific grease leak (perhaps a cracked case, but I could never tell). It would empty its entire contents while sitting over a 48 hour period. Do any of you know of the location of a good tranny which could be bought cheaply. I would even put in the extra bucks for one with an overdrive to increase its gearing on the highway. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Without the tranny my restoration will never get off the ground. Thanks. Stuart From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 17:07:51 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 5 Apr 94 17:49:12 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Sting & Thermostat Housings Content-Type: Text Status: RO I was channel surfing over the weekend and caught the tail end of a news segment showing Sting driving a Discovery over an indoor off-road course at the NY Auto show. I wish I had seen more and could find nothing about it on any other channels or in the papers the next day. Sorry. ______________________________________________________________________________ My 109 2.25 has been running warm ever since I installed the new engine last summer. In diagnosing the situation I had replaced the thermostat, radiator (for other reasons), adjusted timing, and checked for wheel and parking brakes binding. Several of the items when attended to made a slight difference, but when I got it up to 100kph, the needle would start to climb. Previously the needle would hover at the low side of the "N", but was now at the high side and would climb towards the red when driven fast. Over the past few months I had hoped it would settle down as the engine wore in, and it did, but would still climb when driven fast. Recently I saw a tech article in someone's newsletter detailing the operation of the skirt on the thermostat that blocks off the bypass hole once the engine is warm to allow more the coolant to circulate through the radiator. The engine I rebuilt was out of a '61 series II (?) using the flat thermostat. I had changed the thermostat top housing to the later type but did not change the bottom half, as I thought it was the same. Well, I pulled out my IIA parts book and low and behold there were two different part #s for early and late bottom pieces. So last night I pulled the thermostat assembly off the engine and compared it to the old piece. At first glance there appeared to be no difference in the placement of the bypass holes, but with the thermostat in place, the skirt was about a third of an inch lower covering the bypass hole on the later piece than the early piece. This meant that instead of circulating coolant through the radiator, a good portion of it was going back into the engine block. I bolted up the assembly using the later bottom piece and took it for a ride. The needle was significantly lower but I figured a highway drive would be the acid test. It was. I drove it down 287 today at 60kph and the needle reached the middle of the "N" and stayed there. Eureka! If anyone else has an early 2.25 that runs warm but does not overheat, try replacing the thermostat bottom housing. It may do the trick. Bill Maloney 201 428-3491 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 16:01:12 1994 Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 14:13:48 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Rover books Status: RO Just got a new catalogue from Classic Motorbooks (1-800-826-6600). 28 pages with literally hundreds of titles...four books on Oliver (?!?) tractors even, but not a single bloody one on the world's most versatile vehicle! However, there are two books on the Rover V-8 engine, both by David Hardcastle, and both for around $36. "The Rover V-8 Engine" hardback, 224 pages, stock #115351AE. "Tuning the Rover V-8" hardback, 192 pages, stock #119792AE. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 16:27:18 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 14:14:20 -0700 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Doormobiles Status: RO Where might I find more information on Doormobiles? I've read the little amount of information in the FAQ and was wondering if any of the various rover books might have some more info on them. | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================| From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 21:40:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Progress (lack of) From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 18:32:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Just an update on my much maligned progress to date on the work on my Land Rover. Over the weekend, which I should point out ends on Monday for those of us that work for a living, Dixon, I managed to get some things done. I installed the batteries, found a better ground for the negative cable, and got it *started*. I could not resist taking it for a spin around the block. I also managed to take the roof off, BY MYSELF. Most of the aches and pains are gone. Next I plan to install a alternator, will keep you posted. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 21:40:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 5 Apr 1994 20:19:05 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Couple of questions for you guys to ponder over;- Is the step ring on the front wheels of a 2/ 2a 109 /110 the same ring as on a 101" Forward control? Can you fit an overdrive to a forward control ( with the factory engine and tranny etc) Can you fit the wheels and rims from a 1 ton 109" onto a lightweight? yes I know it will decrease the turning circle [D! rgds Robin Craig, Ottawa, Canada, -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 18:41:21 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 5 Apr 94 18:26:57 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: !!!!!BACKFIRE!!!!! Status: RO my good old rover is backfiring. it seem that my solex carb was loose between the float bowl assembly and throttle body so i replaced the gasket simple but now it seems to backfire and run on. someone suggested that it may be too lean so i richened it up alot and still backfired . any suggestions would be appreciated thx From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Apr 5 23:42:10 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sparks! Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 05 Apr 1994 21:28:09 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I was on my way out on Friday. As usual the start motor doesn't have much torque and was barely turning the engine over. I know I need to rebuild the starter eventually. Anyway a spark catches my attention. There was a spark jumping from my overdrive lever to the aluminum transmission hump. I guess the gearbox isn't grounded well enough. This may explain the lack of torque in my starter motor. I know that the engine is grounded well so the spark surprised me. There isn't a grounding strap between the starter and the frame, but I think that I'm going to add one ASAP. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 01:22:10 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Progress (lack of) From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 00:30:54 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes: > Just an update on my much maligned progress to date on the work on my > Land Rover. Over the weekend, which I should point out ends on Monday > for those of us that work for a living, Dixon, Some of us were doing more important things while resting from serving the people of Canada... > I managed to get some things done. This should be amusing... :-) > I installed the batteries, found a better ground for the negative cable, > and got it *started*. I could not resist taking it for a spin around > the block. I also managed to take the roof off, BY MYSELF. Most of > the aches and pains are gone. Brilliant! But I note that you have not yet removed one nut that brings you closer to the refurbishment programme. I guess I will have to be my selfless soul and advise your sister on the value of her sacrifice at letting you steal her parking spot in the garage for the next six months... :-) Need I note that it runs and you fear getting it a little muddy at the Maple Syrup Rally this coming Sunday? My 109 will be there... Even George may be bringing up his 109 pick-up to bury in the mud. Wimp... Remember, a total of some six hours got the rings and bearings changed on my 109, you have to do the same. Springs? pshaw, a tykes chore... These private sector folks... Rgds, Dixon PS. I like how messages are getting grunged and concatenated together somewhere along the route... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 01:22:03 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Transmission From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 00:41:12 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Stuart H. Moore-Roanoke College" writes: > Hello everyone! This is the first time I have sent out anything since being > the mail list so bear with me please. My name is Stuart Moore and I live in > Salem Virginia. Hmmm, ROAV territory. Guess I can't poach you for OVLR... :-) > of you know of the location of a good tranny which could be bought cheaply. > would even put in the extra bucks for one with an overdrive to increase its > gearing on the highway. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Without the > tranny my restoration will never get off the ground. Thanks. Gearboxes can be found up here fairly cheaply. Getting it to you is a bit more expensive. If you *really* need one, here is one from the last OVLR newsletter: Series IIA Transmission, Suffix "D" with transfer case. Transmission slips out of 2nd and 3rd gears. $150. Call Marlene Manning (705) 385-1085 The alternative it to take yours apart and fix it. Off hand I am not sure what this will cost, but the oil being dumped can be fixed with either new seals or a little welding. The damaged gears can be addressed with new ones. An overdrive? You chances of finding one used are slim at best. Your better course of action, if you really desire one is to buy a new one from the UK. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 00:38:25 1994 Date: Tue, 5 Apr 94 22:24:08 PDT From: Vance Chin To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Subject: Re: Sparks! Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I was talking to Scotty a couple of weeks ago and he showed me some things to do on mine. One was to put the ground wire between the right hand transmission mount and the transmission itself. This he said was better because it was out of the way and it does not physically move the braid as much reducing brakage. Vance Chin Land Rover Series III 88" 1973 ------> sans 2 1/4 Petrol engine and Brakes :-( and clutch :-( and diff :-( and axle hubs :-( and Park Brake :-( New Battery shelf :-) vance@xnet.ssl.berkeley.edu or vance@bdt.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 02:12:17 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Junked messages (was: Re: Progress (lack of)) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Apr 94 00:30:54 PDT." <8Xcckc8w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Date: Tue, 05 Apr 94 23:55:01 PDT Status: RO In message <8Xcckc8w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> you write: > PS. I like how messages are getting grunged and concatenated > together somewhere along the route... Somewhere after stratus.com. Everything arrives intact over here... Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 04:34:41 1994 From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: your mail To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 10:24:34 BST Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Robin Craig" at Apr 5, 94 8:19 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Robin asks: > Can you fit an overdrive to a forward control ( with the factory engine > and tranny etc) I'd guess the RR o/d would fit, but I've never seen it done. Perhaps ther's not enough room in the tunnel. > Can you fit the wheels and rims from a 1 ton 109" onto a lightweight? yes > I know it will decrease the turning circle [D! Yes you can, you can also fit 101FC rims but get the five stud not six stud wheels !!!! Running 750's on wider rims over geared my lightweight by around 10%. It's common to remove the steering limiters and let the tyres hit the frame on lock, to get minimum turning circle off-road. The 750's give an inch more diff clearance than 205's and 1.5 inches more that 600's. Well worth it. BTW, for those still interested in such things the grease nipples on Rangey props are 1/4 UNF. There is no nipple fitted to the front because overfilling can restict movement of the sliding sleeve, thereby overstressing the transfer box when the front axle is pushed back in normal usage. You drop the prop, compress fully and then fill with grease, removing the spare nipple and refitting the blanking plug afterwards. The rear is fitted with a nipple as normal, compression of the rear prop being less likely during forward motion. -- Best Regards, Steve. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 06:36:57 1994 Subject: Re: New York Auto Show To: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 11:37:33 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9403027653.AA765328569@ccmailout.idcresearch.com> from "llevitt@idcresearch.com" at Apr 2, 94 03:16:09 pm Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 776 Status: RO llevitt@idcresearch.com writes: > [...] > Each dealer now has one to show, none to go. Inventory is expected in > May. LR also showed a new Range Rover with an updated dash including > twin airbags. I believe that this is the early 1995 model, replacing > an abbreviated 1994 run. For those of you that have to know -- > $53,000! What is the current exchange rate - a Vogue SE is 37,100 sterling here :-) -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 11:12:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Sparks! From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 10:25:45 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Benjamin Allan Smith writes: > I was on my way out on Friday. As usual the start motor doesn't > have much torque and was barely turning the engine over. I know I need to > rebuild the starter eventually. Anyway a spark catches my attention. There > was a spark jumping from my overdrive lever to the aluminum transmission hump > I guess the gearbox isn't grounded well enough. This may explain the lack of > torque in my starter motor. I know that the engine is grounded well so the > spark surprised me. > There isn't a grounding strap between the starter and the frame, but > I think that I'm going to add one ASAP. > I have found, over the course of owning two Land Rovers, that even if the ground to the engine looks good, it probabally isn't. I have found that a good ground makes the starter really spin. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 11:31:06 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 6 Apr 94 16:09:38 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Content-Type: Text Status: RO Nigel, Don't bother to remove the wing to get at the clutch master cylinder. Just remove the inner mudguard and steering box cover. You can now easily access the 6 bolts that hold the clutch master cylinder assembly in place. You will need someone on the inside to hold the bolt while you undo the nut, whether or not you have the wing off. Be sure to note the position of the actuating rod in between the two locknuts (i.e., the number of threads the rod protrudes past the outer locknut) and return the rod to that position after reassembly. If the hydraulic pipe fitting comes undone from the master cylinder but the pipe turns with it, squirt some WD-40 on it and work it gently back and forth while tapping on the pipe at the same time. This should break it free. Otherwise, the rebuild is pretty straight-forward. Have fun. Oh, I'm now on the internet. Thanks to all who guided me through. ****************************************************************************** Ben, You ASOLUTELY MUST have a grounding strap from the engine to the frame. Buy a braided strap at your local auto parts store and put one end under the lower nut holding the starter on and the other to a bolt on the frame. Be sure both contact areas are clean and dry (you may need to scrape the paint off the frame by the bolt hole you have chosen). A can of brake parts cleaner does a great job and leaves no residue. Once assembled you can spray paint over it to prevent corrosion in the future. I'm amazed your Rover starts at all. I had starting problems with both my 88 and 109 when I first bought them and both were due to loose grounding straps. A few weeks after fixing them I no longer looked like Arnold Schwarzennager. Good luck. I'm sure you'll miss your hand crank. ****************************************************************************** Stuart, Since you'll probably have a lot of time on your hands this summer you really ought to try the rebuild yourself. The first tranny I rebuilt was a Rover box and it took me 6 weeks working nights and weekends with only a Haynes manual and lots of phone calls to ABP and RN. If I had known that my transfer box was an early suffix A attached to a later main box, I could have shaved two weeks off that time as I ordered some incorrect parts. Working days you should better that time easily. If you separate the transfer from the main box with everything in the vehicle, then remove the main box, you won't need a hoist to lift out the tranny (I did it, and I'm built like Pee Wee Herman). The biggest hassle is removing the seat base. Follow the manual step by step and you'll be fine. You will need a 19/32 socket, and open end wrench for several BS nuts and a heavy duty pair of snap ring pliers if you dissasemble the transfer, but other than that nothing out of the ordinary is needed. Believe me, it's not brain surgery. The problem with the oil dumping out is probably a bad output seal and/or transfer bottom cover gasket. Rebuilding the box yourself will probably be more expensive than buying used but far cheaper than a reconditioned box. And you'll know the condition of the box you're using. Used boxes are pulled from the vehicle for a number of reasons, and one of them might be that the box was bad. Feel free to call me if you have any questions. Bill Maloney W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 11:30:57 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 6 Apr 94 16:21:37 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Content-Type: Text Status: RO Dale, How did you get the hard top off by yourself? You should produce a video on how to do it. When you update your Rover to an alternator, use a Lucas 18ACR. It puts out 10 more amps than the 16 on paper, but in use is far more powerful and will charge at lower idle speeds. Bill Maloney W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 12:17:16 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 13:03:53 EDT Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Status: RO >How did you get the hard top off by yourself? You should produce a video on >how to do it. I found getting the hard top off my 88 without assistance wasn't that big a deal.... However, I did require help putting it back on. -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 13:39:35 1994 Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 13:38:31 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Sparks and more Status: RO Ben Smith writes: > Anyway a spark catches my attention...I guess the gearbox isn't grounded >well enough. Like money, gems or real estate, I don't think that you can ever have too much grounding! My '72 88 used to do unusual things...like the headlights would dim when I honked the horn. The Prince of Darkness was at work! Anyway, over the years, I have added several supplememtal grounds to the battery, in addition to the woven braid welded to the frame. (Incidentally, my 88 does have a ground strap right at the starter.) One bit of 4 guage welding cable goes from the battery to the block; another 10 ga wire goes to the radiator support (for the lights) and another to the air horns. Still another goes to the dashboard to keep Sir Lucas' minions in line there. Problems still crop up from time to time...right now when I flip the high beams, the headlights go out for a second or two, as if the voltage is rearin' back for a running start to the front end! And the turn indicators (but not the turn signals themselves, which funtion normally) come on in the rain. Kenton Hoover writes about "Doormobiles". These are 'Dormobiles' from the Latin/French "dormir", to sleep, as in dormitory or dormer roof, which the pop-top resembles when up. They were originally developed by Martin Walter Ltd. (in Folkestone, Kent) probably around 1963 or '64. These are the rarest of the rare over here...by best guestimates, there are probably only 20 or so in the US and Canada. All the models that I have seen have been 6 cyl '67's. There are apparently two versions: one has a small wardrobe/ closet while the other has a gas-powered refrigerator in addition to the LNG cooker. Does anyone know of a replacement for the Dormobile fabric top? The top on one of our club member's vehicles has dozens of small holes/tears. With all the bows, it would be tough to duplicate. Another local has built a form to replicate the plastic top vent, so if you know of someone who needs a replacement, he can mold some up out of fiberglass. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 13:57:53 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 11:44:12 PDT From: growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com, @Sun.COM:CERRIA@MON1 Subject: Re: Help Status: RO Welcome! To get put on the alias send a request to: land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com Regards Bill G. ,------,-------, | | | |---{%%%%%%}---| @==============@ |(@) [####] (@)| | o [####] o | ================ {%} {%} {%} {%} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ # # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\ |----------||@ \\ ___ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_ <| ___\ || | ____ | <| / |___||_____|/ | | = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_|| \___/ \___/ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 14:18:52 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 14:57:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Subject: 109 in mid-atlantic states To: lro@stratus.com Cc: Mark Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I am looking for a restorable 109. I am willing to pay the fair market value based on the vehicles condition. Voice 908-8745686 Thanks, Mark From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 13:41:41 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 14:15:34 EST From: "LTC ANTHONY CERRI, TRADOC IG I" Subject: Help To: Status: RO Trying to get on your mailing list. Can you help? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 17:20:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 16:14:56 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes: > Dale, > > How did you get the hard top off by yourself? You should produce a video on > how to do it. > With great difficulty. Undo all the bolts that you need to. Back your Land Rover into a snowbank and lower the tailgate. Crouch in the box, and lift the roof off like a turtle. Hope that the snowbank is firm enough. What I should have done is what i did the previous year. Turn it upside down and slide it down the other side of the bank. I decided to walk it off, falling through the snowbank, losing my balance, and giving myself a hernia in the process. Do you really want to see a video of this. Last years British Invasion video was embarassing enough. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 17:19:25 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Progress (lack of) From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 16:36:08 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes: > > Some of us were doing more important things while resting from > serving the people of Canada... > Ugh, I think that there is a transposition error in the above statement. Shouldn't that read " Some of us were doing more important things from resting while serving the people of Canada..." > Brilliant! But I note that you have not yet removed one nut that > brings you closer to the refurbishment programme. I guess I will > have to be my selfless soul and advise your sister on the value of > her sacrifice at letting you steal her parking spot in the > garage for the next six months... :-) Need I note that it runs > and you fear getting it a little muddy at the Maple Syrup > Rally this coming Sunday? My 109 will be there... Even George may > be bringing up his 109 pick-up to bury in the mud. Wimp... > > Remember, a total of some six hours got the rings and bearings > changed on my 109, you have to do the same. Springs? pshaw, a > tykes chore... These private sector folks... > > Rgds, > > Dixon > Unfortunately, I have to work Saturday, so Sunday is the only full day I can work on the Land Rover. BTW, my sister is already on to me. Goodbye covered garage. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 17:38:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Wed, 6 Apr 1994 17:29:53 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well finally my APRIL editon of land Rover Owner arrived today. Mr Rooth what is the day count on that now? Was interested to see that LRO has finnaly put out an index system. I wonder if it is available on computer disk ? Did you see all the posters that are available in repro form now? Five pounds a pop seems steep if you want all forty of them. i wonder if they'll give a discount on that? Bloody well should do. Did any of you notice that the new Discovery has the name "LAND ROVER" emblazoned accross the hood! I thought it was a discovery? What are they playing at. The whole defender maylarky was to promote "product" identification". If you had never seen this vehicle before then you would imagine that it was a LAND ROVER! Cant make this one out, I guess wee'll get to the bottom of this one soon. Loved the article on the Mount washington climb by the Rovers North people. Nice day trip out eh! Guess they'll be going for the Pole next?! What do you say folks? Well I've finished the Shorland and am taking it out tonight [D, see what the heathens (aircraft lovers) say about it. Thats it for the minute, more whne I've fully scanned Lro on the can tommorrow, only place in the house I can get some piece and quite. Sometimes I really wonder.........! Regards Robin Craig Ottawa Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 16:54:38 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sparks! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Apr 94 08:46:18 PDT." <199404061344.IAA10991@mail.utexas.edu> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 94 14:44:07 PDT Status: RO Greg Hiner wrote: > For what its worth I have a grounding strap that goes from one of the > starter motor bolts to the frame. That is the original way it was grounded > I guess. Also I have heard that adding a second strap from the battery to > one of the bolts on the engine oil filler cover is a good idea. I seem to > remember on my gearbox a ground cable for the reverse light. This is for a > 70 IIa. Currently the engine is grounded to the frame by a nice thick cable that is attached to the horn mounting plate. The battery ground is attached to the same point. Bill Malloney wrote: >I'm amazed your Rover starts at all. I had starting problems with both my 88 >and 109 when I first bought them and both were due to loose grounding straps. >A few weeks after fixing them I no longer looked like Arnold Schwarzennager. >Good luck. I'm sure you'll miss your hand crank. Actually, my rover starts about 75% of the time (it needs fairly few rotations to catch). But is less likely to start when warm than cold. I've learned to park on the uphill side of parking lots so that roll starting isn't too difficult. Or I make sure to bring a few friends. As for the hand crank, I haven't used it since the RN rally 2 years ago. (the first time I thought I had fixed the starter motor and found out, much to my chagrin (sp?), that I hadn't. Soon after this I mounted a winch which blocked the hand crank hole. I'm planning of cutting the crank in two and welding a universal in so that I can pass the crank under the bumper. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 18:16:07 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: crank w/ u joint... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 06 Apr 1994 18:59:05 EDT." <199404062259.SAA24199@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> Date: Wed, 06 Apr 1994 16:06:33 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO In message <199404062259.SAA24199@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>you write: > > >Soon after this I mounted a winch > >which blocked the hand crank hole. I'm planning of cutting the crank in two > >and welding a universal in so that I can pass the crank under the bumper. > > This sounds evil. The plan is to buy some cheap 1/2" drive short extender and cut that in two. Then I'd weld the pieces onto the halfs of the crank. This way I could use the universal from my tool box to try to crank from under the bumper. But If I ever remove the winch, the two pieces of the crank would still attach to each other in a straight line so there is no loss of function. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Apr 6 19:04:03 1994 Date: Wed, 6 Apr 94 19:56:00 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO >Nigel, >Don't bother to remove the wing to get at the clutch master cylinder. Just >remove the inner mudguard and steering box cover. You can now easily access >the 6 bolts that hold the clutch master cylinder assembly in place. You will >need someone on the inside to hold the bolt while you undo the nut, whether or >not you have the wing off. Be sure to note the position of the actuating rod >in between the two locknuts (i.e., the number of threads the rod protrudes >past the outer locknut) and return the rod to that position after reassembly. >If the hydraulic pipe fitting comes undone from the master cylinder but the >pipe turns with it, squirt some WD-40 on it and work it gently back and forth >while tapping on the pipe at the same time. This should break it free. >Otherwise, the rebuild is pretty straight-forward. Bill- Just to get something straight here.....Nigel IS my '60 SII 88 (I don't think he can read, but I am certain he listens to everything I say, and knows all of the things I think......a few months back my dips went out only five minutes after muttering the phrase "prince of darkness".....) Nice to know I need not remove the entire wing. (Actually, if you are crafty with time-space relationships, you need not remove anything at all to remove BOTH master cylinders, but you do have to bend your hoses and contort your body into positions it has never seen before.) As for pipe connections and avoiding problems with them, a trick I learned from a guy who made a living working on brakes is to *tighten* a pipe (or bleed screw) connection EVER SO SLIGHTLY before trying to loosen it-this not only loosens the threads, but also usually loosens the pipe itself from the threaded pipe fitting. The clutch master rebuild should certainly be straight-forward (it's getting the big end bolt off of a CB brake master without a vise, and bleeding a brake master sans EZ-bleed that I don't enjoy). guess my saturday morining is all cut out for me (but the time has come to get the manure out of the barn-a whole winter's worth.....yummmm!-time to fire up that tractor and lube the spreader.......). rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 02:31:47 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 00:17:32 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well girls, just got back from the model club meeting, there was no ad hoc competetion tonight, just a works in progress table. put the vehicle on the table anyway and got a lot of favourable compliments about thr job done. everyone loved the coil of barbed wire on the hood. The vehicle is painted up in Royal Ulster Constabluary colours. What they did not know about the barbed wire is that it was a Hollywood job. What happened was that I had to fill in the spare carrier mount on the hood, the spare is carried on the rear deck. Well when i came to spraying the model It seems that the no shrink putty had shrunk. So i was left with a circle mark on the hood. I had some photo etched barbed wire around so I rolled it up and planted it on the hood and nicely covered up that gaff! The boys were impressed on the whole, probaly the best reaction I have had to a Land Rover in a long time. I guess it is cos it is painted blue! Thanks go to Dixon for keeping our system open longer at night, I'm writing this at 00:26 hrs, he used to lock it all up at 00:01. Now us nighthawks can use the system when we need it. Thanks mate. By the way who ever it was who answered about the 101 Fc rims on the lightweight please note, I was asking about the 1 ton 109", not the military vehicle. Thanks for your comments though folks. I appreciate them. By the way, only one anwer on my question on the large plastic badges on series two lightweights. Dissapointing. See ya all real soon ya' hear! Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 02:32:23 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 00:42:52 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) writes: > Nigel, > > Don't bother to remove the wing to get at the clutch master cylinder. Just > remove the inner mudguard and steering box cover. You can now easily access > the 6 bolts that hold the clutch master cylinder assembly in place. You will > need someone on the inside to hold the bolt while you undo the nut, whether o > not you have the wing off. These are captive nuts. Just undo the six bolts and the assembly will be loose. Unless the wing comes off, you will not get it out. You may be able to get the master out, but it will be very painful. > Ben, > > You ASOLUTELY MUST have a grounding strap from the engine to the frame. Buy > braided strap at your local auto parts store and put one end under the lower > nut holding the starter on and the other to a bolt on the frame. This is the best location, but I ran the 109 with it grounded from the battery box to the nut holding the breather onto the block for a year. Not the best spot as the lower starter bolt to the frame is the best (there is even a tab on the frame to take this ground cable) > Good luck. I'm sure you'll miss your hand crank. Only if you have a Koneig PTO winch in the front as I and several other people in OVLR have.. :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 02:32:11 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Progress (lack of) From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 00:50:01 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) writes: > Unfortunately, I have to work Saturday, so Sunday is the only full day I > can work on the Land Rover. BTW, my sister is already on to me. Goodbye > covered garage. In other words, you are asking for a flying party of OVLR types to swoop down upon your 88 while it is in the garage and place it in a state where it will not move untiol you have put it back together again. BTW, while waiting for you the other night I found your raised air intake system, your overdrive, springs, new door bottoms... Need I go on... You're very lucky thus far... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 03:20:42 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 7 Apr 1994 09:13:18 +0100 To: lro@stratus.com From: "Ian Stuart, (Tel: 6205)" Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 09:14:29 GMT Subject: Re: Priority: normal Status: RO > > Did any of you notice that the new Discovery has the name "LAND ROVER" > emblazoned accross the hood! I thought it was a discovery? What are they > playing at. The whole defender maylarky was to promote "product" > identification". If you had never seen this vehicle before then you would > imagine that it was a LAND ROVER! Cant make this one out, I guess wee'll > get to the bottom of this one soon. > I was taliking to a mechanic about this, we reckon that Defender and Discovery are two types of *Land Rover*, whilst the Range Rover & the soon-to-be-announced ?Road Rover? are a different range of vehicle (no pun intended!) (like there are the Rover 400, 600 & 800 models, plus the Metro & Tiumph cars as well). ----** Ian Stuart +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. #======================================================================# Land Rover: A work-horse that was meant to survive the charge of an adult bull rhino and be field-stripped in the jungle with essentially a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 09:30:04 1994 Subject: Re: Defender, Discovery, etc. To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Ian Stuart ) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 14:18:29 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: from "Ian Stuart," at Apr 7, 94 09:14:29 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2625 Status: RO Ian Stuart, writes: > > > > > Did any of you notice that the new Discovery has the name "LAND ROVER" > > emblazoned accross the hood! I thought it was a discovery? What are they > > playing at. The whole defender maylarky was to promote "product" > > identification". If you had never seen this vehicle before then you would > > imagine that it was a LAND ROVER! Cant make this one out, I guess wee'll > > get to the bottom of this one soon. > > > I was taliking to a mechanic about this, we reckon that Defender and Discovery are > two types of *Land Rover*, whilst the Range Rover & the soon-to-be-announced ?Road > Rover? are a different range of vehicle (no pun intended!) (like there are the Rover 400, 600 > & 800 models, plus the Metro & Tiumph cars as well). As I understand it, the aim is for Land Rover to be regarded as a Manufacturer, just like Rover, Ford, Jaguar, etc. The first problem was to disassociate the Land Rover name from the traditional Land Rover image. To do this 2 things happened - 1. Land Rover 90, 110 etc became Defenders 2. Range Rover was launched in the USA as Range Rover with Range Rover North America as the organisation behind them. Some time goes by ...... I don't remember the exact sequence, but it goes something like this - a. The LAND ROVER Discovery appeared b. The vehicles started being actively marketted as:- Land Rover Defender Land Rover Discovery Land Rover Range Rover About this time their was lots of speculation about the Range Rover being renamed Land Rover D......., but it never happened. c. Range Rover started to appear with those nice little green oval badges front and back. d. Range Rover North America became Land Rover North America (I believe) If you now look at a 1995 model year Range Rover it no longer says Range Rover in the middle of the steering wheel (or anywhere else inside that I have spotted so far), but Land Rover. While the 1995 model year Discovery's now have Land Rover in big letters across the bonnet. I don't expect Range Rover bonnets to appear with Land Rover across them, but do expect the new vehicle to have LAND ROVER very prominantly in view (only a guess, but lets wait and see) - though I guess it might say BMW instead :-) or should that be :-( -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 11:29:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rover books From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 10:10:28 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes: > Just got a new catalogue from Classic Motorbooks (1-800-826-6600). 28 pages > with literally hundreds of titles...four books on Oliver (?!?) tractors > even, but not a single bloody one on the world's most versatile vehicle! > However, there are two books on the Rover V-8 engine, both by David > Hardcastle, and both for around $36. > "The Rover V-8 Engine" hardback, 224 pages, stock #115351AE. > "Tuning the Rover V-8" hardback, 192 pages, stock #119792AE. > I have an older catalogue (Fall 1993) that lists several Land rover books. They list the Brookland series plus about ten others. One example is "Land Rover: The Unbeatable 4X4" by K. Slavin for 34.95 U.S. They are kind of expensive. They also list a "Land Rover 2/2a/3 Shop Manual" that "includes gas and diesel models 1959-83,252 pages" order #133855A for $21.95 U.S. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 11:29:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rover books From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 10:10:28 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) writes: > Just got a new catalogue from Classic Motorbooks (1-800-826-6600). 28 pages > with literally hundreds of titles...four books on Oliver (?!?) tractors > even, but not a single bloody one on the world's most versatile vehicle! > However, there are two books on the Rover V-8 engine, both by David > Hardcastle, and both for around $36. > "The Rover V-8 Engine" hardback, 224 pages, stock #115351AE. > "Tuning the Rover V-8" hardback, 192 pages, stock #119792AE. > I have an older catalogue (Fall 1993) that lists several Land rover books. They list the Brookland series plus about ten others. One example is "Land Rover: The Unbeatable 4X4" by K. Slavin for 34.95 U.S. They are kind of expensive. They also list a "Land Rover 2/2a/3 Shop Manual" that "includes gas and diesel models 1959-83,252 pages" order #133855A for $21.95 U.S. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 10:02:39 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 14:41:41 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Miscellaneous Content-Type: Text Status: RO Wow!!! It's only my second day on internet, and I've already gotten over 20 messages! It's enough to warm the swivel balls of any Land Rover Owner. ****************************************************************************** Dixon, You are right of course about the clutch master cylinder frame having captive nuts. I sometimes forget whether my nuts are loose or being held captive. ****************************************************************************** Russel, Thanks for setting me straight. Please apologize to Nigel for me. ****************************************************************************** Dale, Thanks for the step by step instructions on the one man removal of a hard top. My truss is on order and should arrive next week. Bill Maloney W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 11:09:04 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 09:01:14 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys Status: RO In message <668Dkc2w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> writes: > Only if you have a Koneig PTO winch in the front as I and several > other people in OVLR have.. :-) > > Rgds, > > Dixon Say what? Koneig ? Who make that one??? Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. Hmmm my hose clamps & flasher unit are made in Canada too. My car must have spend a fair amount of time there before it immigrated to the US. TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 12:38:22 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 17:31:10 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Vancouver Wench Content-Type: Text Status: RO TeriAnn, You write: > Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. Where in Canada was your wench made? I could really use one myself. Is it possible to order a wench in petite (Manual as opposed to electric, and preferably brunette)? Are the wenches self-lubricating or externally lubed? Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 12:38:22 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 17:31:10 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Vancouver Wench Content-Type: Text Status: RO TeriAnn, You write: > Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. Where in Canada was your wench made? I could really use one myself. Is it possible to order a wench in petite (Manual as opposed to electric, and preferably brunette)? Are the wenches self-lubricating or externally lubed? Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 13:57:55 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 11:49:10 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com, land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Vancouver Wench Status: RO In message <199404071729.NAA02141@transfer.stratus.com> wmalon writes: > TeriAnn, > > You write: > > > Mine is a massive electric Vancouver wench made in Canada. > > Where in Canada was your wench made? I could really use one myself. Is it > possible to order a wench in petite (Manual as opposed to electric, and > preferably brunette)? Are the wenches self-lubricating or externally lubed? > > > Bill Maloney > IIA 88 & 109 Wagon > W-201 428-3491 > H-201 835-1796 > wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com > AT&T Rm. CC24 > 4 Woodhollow Rd. > Parsippany, NJ 07054 > Humph! Your on thin ice partner TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 15:07:03 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:55:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Subject: Re: Rover books In-Reply-To: <6Fyekc1w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Status: RO Hi all, I was just reading Dale Desprey's note about the Classic Motorbooks. So I called their 800 number, cause I was interrested in the "Shop Manual" So here's the latest poop. They are out of copies right now but they will be getting in some new copies the first or second week of May, and the correct Order Number is #113855A. The price is now $24.95 US plus $4.50 shipping. There is no tax here in Pa. but I don't know about elsewhere. Their address is: Classic Motorbooks PO Box 1 Osceola, Wisconsin--54020 I said, Osceola, that's the same as florida isn't it? She didn't think it was funny. Cheers [it's spring] Jon # # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\ "YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_ It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium ++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | | = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_|| jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 15:15:46 1994 From: RAMAGEM@carleton.edu Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 15:06:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: My bad ASCII art To: lro@stratus.com X-Envelope-To: lro@stratus.com X-Vms-To: LANDROVER Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO |------------------____ | ____________ ______ \ | | | | \ \ | | | | \ \ ______ | |__________| |________| |__(______)_ | ______ | | ______ | |_ / \ | ' | / \ |_ -_/ O O \_|________|__/ O O \|_| O O O O O O O O From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 16:09:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:00:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > Say what? Koneig ? Who make that one??? I'll check, but I do know it was made in the USA and was discontinued in 1972. They kind of laughed at us last summer when we phoned them for some new gears. Not that it mattered, we just went and had a friend make us some new gears for it. There are at least three of these winches in the club. Big brutes and pretty good and getting others out of the muck. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 15:48:32 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 7 Apr 94 20:12:27 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Vancouver Wench Content-Type: Text Status: RO TeriAnn, Sorry, I couldn't resist. I guess I just come from a long line of low lifes. I see you have a TR3. One of my neighbors has one in his garage in nice shape but I haven't been able to motivate him to get it back on the road. The body style has really nice lines. Those that I've seen on ther road sound reeeeel good. I love that exhaust tone. He talked to me about selling it but I have 2 too many projects now as it is. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 19:32:34 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sparks! From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 15:46:01 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes: > Actually, my rover starts about 75% of the time (it needs fairly > few rotations to catch). But is less likely to start when warm than cold. > I've learned to park on the uphill side of parking lots so that roll starting > isn't too difficult. Or I make sure to bring a few friends. You might check the springs and brushes. If a spring is rotted or brush overly worn, it can cause intermitant problems. If this is the case, it can only get worse. On a positive note, it is fairly easy to fix. You can take a starter motor out without removing the exhaust manifold. The trick is to turn the wheels all the way to the right before you start, gives you more room. It got to the point where I could get the starter motor out in about 15 minutes (it is MUCH easier on a diesel). One day I should write detailed instructions on how to remove a starter motor, tools needed, tricks and traps. It is the one thing that I seem to have done alot. Dale Desprey -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 16:42:31 1994 Date: Thu, 07 Apr 1994 16:55:02 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Cranks Status: RO Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity. Speaking of cranks (smooth segue, eh?) several years ago, I found a *complete* Aerowinch capstan - took it off a vehicle from Afghanistan. As it takes its power from the starting dog, a shorter starting crank was necessary...and Craddock's advertised one for <5#. Sent my monies (credit card) off...and waited...and waited. Months later (after I made one myself) a package from Craddock's arrives. 25#(!) + VAT (!!) + postage + handling fees (!!!) = 35# and a few pence...for a bloody crank! Phone calls were of little help...the bloke on the other end quoted the party line about a "special back order direct from Land Rover" and "restocking fees" if I returned it. Now I have two cranks, plus an attitude! Anyone want to buy a *genuine* short starting handle? *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 17:05:38 1994 From: jory@MIT.EDU Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 17:55:33 EDT Sender: jory@PO7.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Cranks Status: RO >Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but >adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it >has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I >was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a >dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you >certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the >jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity. > how about incorporating a one-way ratchet to obviate the dangers of backfiring (you know, when i first had my rover, i crank started it a lot.. [low compression :]... and never even considered the possibility of a backfire... i am still amazed/thankful i never broke a bone. actually, it was the mechanic type at cheshire auto in new hampshire who clued me in some time later... ) -jory From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 17:57:12 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Cranks In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Apr 94 17:55:33 PDT." <9404072155.AA05053@MIT.EDU> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 94 15:49:09 PDT Status: RO Jory Bell wrote: > Sandy Grice wrote: > >Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but > >adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it > >has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I > >was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a > >dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you > >certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the > >jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity. In addition ot the universal I was going to weld a small plate, with a hole in it for the crank to pass though, to the bottom of the bumper. With the degrees of freedom restricted like this I don't see how it is more dangerous than the standard crank. When the engine backfires the crank should spin in place until it is kicked out. > how about incorporating a one-way ratchet to obviate the dangers of > backfiring That would be a really go idea. What at first seemed to be a cool, easy project is looking like it might not be worth the effort/danger. Back to the drawing boards..... Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 19:34:33 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 7 Apr 1994 18:56:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Well, I never thought I would see a Land Rover owner apologise, At least I know its not possible around here anyway! Points go to Mr Malloney (sp) on his apology to Terri Ann. Well done. Go figure this one, I ordered my copy of Land Rovers in military service by Bob Morrison from land Rover Owner magazine and today it arrived in the mail. the money order and letter went out by first class air mail on the 22nd of March! How come that magazine takes so long? Dont any of you others out there get this magazine. Does it not gip you that you pay all this money for an airmailed subscription and get shank's pony delivery? Back to the book, here is a review. this book is a brookland reprint of a number of Bob Morrison's military cxolumn from Land Rover Owner magazine. As it is a Brooklands reprint that means that the aricles are in black and white. beleive me detail is lost from the original pictures by quite a bit. If you like the military variants of the Land Rover and you do not have all the LRO'S since they began then this would be of interest to you. Or by the same token you are a model maker who does not have access to LRO then again this will give you a good spread of subjects to get on with. There are sixteen new half page size colour pictures inside as a bonus. Also on the outside you get a total of seven new pictures (1front 6 back) (colour) for extra detail. So I come down to the punch line, value for money or VFM. If you paid full whack from the LRO bookshop at 9.95 pounds plus a couple of pounds for shipping and you have all the LRO's then you got stuffed mate! If on the other hand you this book as the bonus for renewing yopur subscription then I think it is ok, especially when you read that little book "know your Land Rover". If you got it for 8 pounds from the March issue of LRO including postage then you got reasonable VFM as an extra reference book. By the way, Bob Morrison will be getting a copy of this reveiw so please dont feel I'm telling stories out of class. We are friends aswell. I would have to say that I have always had a problem with the paper quality and the reprod uction quality of the brooklands books. Ithink that their pictures could be a little less grainy and lighter if they really tried. Comments please? Oh by the way, if you get a chance to buy Bob's book British Land Rovers in the Gulf that is a great book with alot of excellent pictures that have not been seen in LRO itself. There is a great forward to the history of the region (the Gulf) and to the military Land Rover aswell. In addition there is a guide to making model Land Rovers and what kits to use. This one is worth the full list price to see some of the neat military variants and equipment modifications. Regards Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 18:48:11 1994 From: K Schmidt Subject: cranks + roofs To: lro@stratus.com Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 19:39:21 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO I'm relatively new on the mailing list, I'm in Kingston, Ontario at RMC (Royal Militaty College of Can.) So I don't get to get out and enjoy my Land Rover 62 88' (IIa) as often as I would like to. I have found that I've spent as many hours fixing my LR as I have driving it since I bought it a year ago. This leads me to a couple of thigs that have been discussed... >Ben- The universal-jointed starting crank sounds dangerous for anything but >adjusting the tappets. I have used my starting handle many times and it >has backfired a time or two - but only caught me once, though [luckily] I >was wearing heavy padded ski gloves. Watching that crank spin like a >dervish ten or twelve revolutions puts the fear in you....and makes you >certain to keep the thumbs clear! If the fool thing does backfire, the >jointed crank is likely to flog madly away at anything in the vicinity. > >(Sandy Grice) As far as worrying about the starting handle kicking back, there is one way to prevent this... you can practice! I'm not saying that you should do this for fun but.. last year one of the many things that broke was my starter. I ended up "practicing" shall we say with the crank.Yes, at first it did kick back on occasion, but after about a week of starting it _four_ times a day (people would come out to watch and laugh), you get a good idea of how much gas, etc. to give so that it starts with only _one_ quick turn. It never really kicked back for the remaining three weeks that I continued to drive before getting my starter back in! Next is the procedure to getting you roof off alone, for some strange reason I've almost never had anyone help me take the roof off (I've had help putting it on though) All that you need to do is undo all the bolts, and place a suitable sized blanket on the ground behind the LR. Next, climb into the bed and slide the roof toward the rear. As you get the roof nearly half way off, grab the leading edge of the roof and pull down while continuing to push to the rear. The roof should easily slide of the back and end up in an upright position resting on the rear windows. Does that make sense? Other things that I've done for my LR is I sewed a form fitted cover out of canvas (only cost me $125CAN. for the material) It will last forever! and I've made a soft top with hoops as well. Is anyone interested in one or how to go about making these? I'll post info if anyone is interested. Happy Rovering to all!! Kurt s20845@sv1.rmc.ca From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 05:43:54 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Tools In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Apr 94 20:20:43 PDT." <9404080220.AA00270@mtnoca.helena_noc> Date: Fri, 08 Apr 94 03:28:07 PDT Status: RO In message <9404080220.AA00270@mtnoca.helena_noc> you write: > Ok all you mechs answer this question: What is the size difference > if any between the AF (across flats and the standard American SAE > sockets and wrenches? I always thought that AF was the SAE. > Plus what is the difference between Whitworth and British Standard? British Standard and Whitworth are different nomenclatures for tools that fit the same sized nuts/bolts. I believe that one refers to the diameter of the bolt and the other refers to the size of the head/nut for that bolt. Why the Brits had two different naming conventions is beyond me. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 20:10:41 1994 From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Sparks! In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 07 Apr 94 15:46:01 PDT." Date: Thu, 07 Apr 94 17:58:54 PDT Status: RO Dale Desprey wrote: > You might check the springs and brushes. If a spring is rotted or brush > overly worn, it can cause intermitant problems. If this is the case, it > can only get worse. On a positive note, it is fairly easy to fix. You > can take a starter motor out without removing the exhaust manifold. The > trick is to turn the wheels all the way to the right before you start, > gives you more room. It got to the point where I could get the starter > motor out in about 15 minutes (it is MUCH easier on a diesel). I've found that all I need to do is remove the 3 nuts securing the exhaust pipe to the exhaust manifold (brasss ones) and move the pipe to side. With the wheels turned to one extreme there is enough room for the starter motor to go out the bottom. I wish there was a way to do it without undoing the exhaust pipe nuts, but the starter motor is just a tad too long. Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 21:59:24 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 20:20:43 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tools Status: RO Ok all you mechs answer this question: What is the size difference if any between the AF (across flats and the standard American SAE sockets and wrenches? I always thought that AF was the SAE. Plus what is the difference between Whitworth and British Standard? Only ask because I am reading Porter's book in detail and the three different types are mentioned. Some of the procedures I have read so far are a bit heavy on obvious things, like how to remove the bonnet removal and so far he is big on replacement rather than repair. Plus he says that the replacement of the bushings and shackles are ,"straightforward and inexspensive operation". Right! Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 01:18:21 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Wings, Sparks, & Trannys From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 00:01:13 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > Say what? Koneig ? Who make that one??? Koenig Iron Works of Houston Texas. Further checking has turned up a couple more of them in the club, so my total in OVLR has gone from three to six that I know of thus far. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Apr 7 20:30:29 1994 Date: Thu, 7 Apr 94 18:52:46 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Books Status: RO Robin, When I was in the Gulf I saw some amazing old Rovers that were everything to an SAS airfield defense 88 to 110 county and leased Discos plus many Lightweights that looked like they had plenty of miles on them. We made a run to Rhiyad (sp) and missed a Scud by 15 minutes. But we hit a traffic jam caused by the movement across the higway of an armored division that took several hours. Anyway it was in that traffic jam that a Brit Officer wanted to trade me his brand new 110 with OD/winch and GPS for a Hummer. The Rover had about 2,000 miles on it. All I had to trade was a Jeep Cherokee with the 6cyl 6 liter, it was a 1990. But if I would have had a Hummer it would have gone to the Brit in a heartbeat. I got the Haynes book by Lindsay Porter on restoration and such. It is hardback and not bad b ut a bit thin. Has no real electrical troubling shooting or any real helpful general maintenance stuff. But the sections on body and stuff along with the genral comments are I guess worth the price of admission. It is thinner than I thought. But a good refernece for getting your Rover in better condition cosmetically. But I may change my mind when I read the thing cover to cover. The one book I got that was pretty good, I thought, was the Brooklands reprint of the Practical Classics articles on the 58 Series I 88. Not bad. I like it because it covers that exact year Series I I have. Joy - Joy. But for the money it was pretty thin, about 70 some pages. But it should come in handy. I also got another copy of the Haynes repair book for the IIA and III. It was hardbound and is apparently no longer available in the US. I got mine from the mother country, last week. So that`s it for my book jazz. Roy - Rovers in teh Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 10:09:49 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Starter motor removal To: lro@stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 9:59:39 CDT In-Reply-To: <9404080058.AA20895@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu>; from "ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu" at Apr 7, 94 5:58 pm Status: RO Dale Desprey wrote: > ... You > can take a starter motor out without removing the exhaust manifold. The > trick is to turn the wheels all the way to the right before you start, > gives you more room. It got to the point where I could get the starter > motor out in about 15 minutes (it is MUCH easier on a diesel). Benjamin Smith said: > I've found that all I need to do is remove the 3 nuts securing the > exhaust pipe to the exhaust manifold (brasss ones) and move the pipe to > side. With the wheels turned to one extreme there is enough room for the > starter motor to go out the bottom. I wish there was a way to do it without > undoing the exhaust pipe nuts, but the starter motor is just a tad too long. Ok, I give up. I used to think myself mechanically ept (opposite of inept), but for the life of me, I see no possible way to extract the starter on my 69 88" 2.25 petrol without detaching the exhaust downpipe from the exhaust manifold. Unfortunately in my case, the pipe and manifold are attached with a variety of nuts, bolts and many many years of rust welding everything together. It is hard to be sure, but I also suspect that one of the nuts is welded to the bolt that has replaced one stud... The manual does say to remove the exhaust pipe, but that is my problem. Dale, can you elaborate on the procedure to remove a starter *without* detaching the exhaust pipe from the manifold? I have tried every manipulation I can think of, and there just does not seem to be enough clearance to clear the bellhousing before hitting the exhaust pipe. I can see that if I *could* get it free, then I could drop it out the bottom easily. >From close inspection, everything *looks* stock on my beast. The exhaust pipe drops almost perfectly straight down from the exhaust manifold before turning to the rear of the vehicle. There really doesn't seem to be anything nonstock about the exhaust pipe - it really does continue the line of the manifold outlet without any apparent rearward displacement that might restrict the clearance more than on a stock installation. If I can't pull the starter with the exhaust still in place, I will have to cut the exhaust pipe and pull the entire manifold set and exhaust pipe stub out the top, so I can work it over on the bench. It needs new studs anyhow, but strikes me as a lot more work than I care to go to right at the moment. Oh yes, I have tried simple leverage, Liquid Wrench, WD-40, Silikroil, a propane torch, a propane torch combined with each of the above individually and together, cursing, and prayer. No luck on any of the three studs/bolts/nuts holding the manifold and exhaust pipe together. Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 10:38:59 1994 From: "Bryan White" Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 08:31:00 -0700 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Transfer case.. HELP! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO Yesterday I was at a British Motors dealership looking at a 1988 Range Rover. Being more familiar with the later models' full-time 4wd, I was concerned when the salesman shifted the 1988's 2wd/4wd transfer case while moving at 5 mph. As he attempted to engage the transfer case, he threw the shifter forward. His effort was followed by a clanking sound but it was not yet engaged. His second attempt caused the the transfer case to cry out again and this time all passengers were thrown forward with the vehicles new gear ratio. For a moment, the 4wd indicator light came on but unfortunately the transfercase was not yet securely engaged. Even more unfortunate was that this salesman was going to make a third attempt... We're still traveling at 5 mph... Then, with a mighty forward thrust on the shifter, the transfer case engaged, with a few concerning "thud" and "clank" type sounds. The salesman looked my way and explained the reason why you must shift at 5 mph. The way the salesman did this did not seem right but he was adamant that he knew what he was doing. What is the right way to shift the 1988's from 2wd into 4wd? Should you stop first? Please explain. Thanks! -- Bryan White Silicon Graphics, Inc. Site Technical Support brywhite@corp.sgi.com (415)390-4305 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 11:05:16 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 08:56:01 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Tools Status: RO In message <9404080220.AA00270@mtnoca.helena_noc> ROY CALDWELL writes: Question removed Sorry Roy I dnon't know the answer but I do seem to have a number od wrenches with AF behing the size. > Plus he says that the replacement of the bushings and > shackles are ,"straightforward and inexspensive operation". Right! I had to replace a broken rear shackle last year. It didn't seem all that bad to me. If I remember had to grind off a rusted bolt head & I used a come along to pull the shackle out. I cleaned up the holes put some dish soap on the new bushings & slid them in. New shackles, grade 8 bolts and lock nuts finished the job. Hmmm now that I think of it, since my Land Rover retired form being a farm work car a couple of years ago, she has gone through one rear shackle, one rear axle & diff, and she broke a front stub axle. Plus When I went in to get my tyres balanced the other month I was told that all my wheels are slightly bent. Some retirement. Last night I came across my first new 90 on the road. Very polite driver I must say. As soon as he/she (it was dark) recognized my 109, there was enthusiastic horn blowing, light flashing and waving. At least new Land Rover owners seem to have better manners than their Range Rover counterparts. > > Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What Class III oil leak Sir? > TeriAnn - Rovers in the Redwood forrested mountains along the coast TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 11:15:25 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 12:08:19 -0400 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Providing you have a STOCK exhaust (which you do, we think) you can do the following: a) loosen the bolts holding your starter in and disconnect the wires. b) move the starter forward slightly until it clears the bell housing c) tilt it verticle (i believe the front part of the starter should now be pointed down, while the end towards the bell housing should be up. this operation may take two hands-one on front, and one pushing the back up. make sure you don't drop it on your face! d) should drop right out. e) installation is quite obviously the reverse. rd/nige (he says he wants to tow the manure spreader, but i won't let him.... too many rocks and stuff that would break the rear windows....this job is for the farm rig......) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 12:20:13 1994 Subject: Re: Transfer case.. HELP! To: brywhite@quagmire.corp.sgi.com (Bryan White) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 17:42:01 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (LRO list) In-Reply-To: <9404080831.ZM2503@quagmire.corp.sgi.com> from "Bryan White" at Apr 8, 94 08:31:00 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2640 Status: RO Bryan White writes: > > > > Yesterday I was at a British Motors dealership looking at a 1988 Range Rover. > > Being more familiar with the later models' full-time 4wd, I was concerned when > the salesman shifted the 1988's 2wd/4wd transfer case while moving at 5 mph. > As he attempted to engage the transfer case, he threw the shifter forward. His > effort was followed by a clanking sound but it was not yet engaged. His second > attempt caused the the transfer case to cry out again and this time all > passengers were thrown forward with the vehicles new gear ratio. For a > moment, the 4wd indicator light came on but unfortunately the transfercase was > not yet securely engaged. Even more unfortunate was that this salesman was > going to make a third attempt... We're still traveling at 5 mph... > > Then, with a mighty forward thrust on the shifter, the transfer case engaged, > with a few concerning "thud" and "clank" type sounds. The salesman looked my > way and explained the reason why you must shift at 5 mph. > > The way the salesman did this did not seem right but he was adamant that he > knew what he was doing. > > What is the right way to shift the 1988's from 2wd into 4wd? Should you stop > first? > > Please explain. > > Thanks! All Range Rovers have fulltime 4wd, so the salesman wasn't shifting from 2wd to 4wd. Question is was he attempting to enguage the diff lock (moving the H-N-L lever from side to side) or from low to high range (moving the H-N-L lever from L towards H) or from high to low (moving the H-N-L lever from H towards L)? Also presumably the vehicle was an automatic? If it was the first case (and this is the one that causes the bright amber light next to the radio to spring into life) then their should be no problem at any speed - though you shouldn't run on an ordinary road surface, etc with the diff lock enguaged unless you want to wind the transmission up on the corners. Going from low to high or high to low on the move is possible with a manual transmission (and quite common particulalry when towing something very heavy) it is best avoided with an automatic since you have no way of double de-clutching. > -- > Bryan White > Silicon Graphics, Inc. > Site Technical Support > brywhite@corp.sgi.com > (415)390-4305 > > -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 12:34:32 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 10:25:31 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Status: RO In message <199404081606.MAA06417@transfer.stratus.com> "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > > rd/nige (he says he wants to tow the manure spreader, but i won't let him.... > too many rocks and stuff that would break the rear windows....this job is for > the farm rig......) > > The Green Rover towed my manure spreader about once every two months for about 13 years when I sold the dairy herd and the spreader. She was never hurt by it. The manure gets thrown to the rear and sides. It dosn't throw in front of the auger. What she didn't like as much was the times when I couldn't get the spreader close enough to the manure and had to fill The Green Rover to the roof line with manure (Lets see the Range Rover peole do that!). Afterwards, I would park her up hill and hose her down. Come to think of it I probably washed the inside of the car more often than I washed the outside... But I thought Land Rovers were designed to be farm rigs??? TeriAnn TeriAnn Wakeman One of these days, I'll be old enough that twakeman@apple.com people will stop calling me crazy and start LINK: TWAKEMAN calling me eccentric. 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:03:29 1994 From: mordor!fangorn!wmalon@njncaps.attmail.com (wmalon) Date: 8 Apr 94 17:46:07 GMT To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Message-Service: mail Subject: Books, Tools & Starters Content-Type: Text Status: RO ****************************************************************************** Robin, >From what I understand about the shipping of LRO is that they drop ship all the issues to one US postal location. From there they are sent via regular US mail. Apparently they are able to save quite a bit in doing this, but as we all know it really kills the delivery time. I suspect that LRO has the same arrangement with the Canadian postal service. I wonder if surface mail would be any faster? I agree, it really irks me, especially since I ordered a 2 year subscription back when the pound = $1.92 US and I was sure the exchange rate was going to increase. So much for my financial forcasting skills. ****************************************************************************** Roy, I believe that AF and Whitworth are the same, but you might try a second opinion. I read an article a while back regarding the history of Whitworth fasters. As I recall prior to WWII a British analyst by the name of Whitworth came up with the concept of a system of fasteners for military vehicles and hardware that differed from both Metric and SAE. The benefit of this system was that if an enemy army captured British equipment, they would find it difficult to maintain in terms of tool and hardware compatability. After the war they had all this surplus hardware that they couldn't unload in Europe, the US, or Asia. So it got dumped apon the British motor industry (it may have been a case of the lowest bidder). I don't recall where or when I read this, so please forgive me if it is inaccurate. ****************************************************************************** Mark, I have had studs break off of both my Rovers and know what you are going through. I think that your idea of removing the manifold complete is a good one. You may need to apply quite a bit of heat to the manifold to get the studs out. Even then they may snap off. At that point don't even bother trying to drill and extract them with an easy-out. Take it to your local machine shop and have 3 stainless helicoil inserts installed. Use stainless studs, nuts & washers if available. While you're at it separate the intake from the exhaust manifolds. Invest in a manifold bolts & nuts set from RN or ABP and use Permatex antisieze on all threads and on the full length of the studs fastening the intake to exhaust manifolds. Use a new gasket but don't tighten the 4 nuts holding the two manifolds together until you have fully tightened the nuts & bolts holding both manifolds to the head. If you do not follow this order you may wind up with intake or exhaust leaks because the manifolds are not allowed to bed into the intake-to-head gasket properly. It's easier to see than to explain. Oh, and while you're at it, it makes starter removal a snap! It may take more time than you wanted, but it may save you time and aggravation in the future or or in a situation where facilities or spares are not readily availble. Bill Maloney 88 IIA & 109 Wagon W-201 428-3491 H-201 835-1796 wmalon@cbnewsl.att.com AT&T Rm. CC24 4 Woodhollow Rd. Parsippany, NJ 07054 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 14:30:17 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: videos From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 14:03:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Howdy you' all, was on the dog and bone across the pond with the folks at LRO book shop. Some interesting things emerged. 1. If enough people get together (would only be practical in local areas) and put in abulk order on the advertising prints they would be happy to give a"bulk discount" the same with the bookshop. For further details contact Ann Cornwall at the LRO bookshop, number in LRO. 2.Did you notice that two of the LRO bookshop videos are now available in NTSC (good for North America VCRS) format. Ann says that are priced at 19.99 pounds not at the 14.99 in the list, again discount depends on numbers, also time to get them depends on there being a few to be converted before she will get them done. Probably next paycheque(govt ui) I'll splurge and order one. Hope the transfer mast is real good! The videos available in NTSC are The Land Story by James Taylor and The Land Rover film libray. regards Robin Craig Ottawa Ontario Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:26:02 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Starter removal To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 13:17:55 CDT In-Reply-To: <199404081606.MAA06417@transfer.stratus.com>; from "Russell G. Dushin" at Apr 8, 94 12:08 pm Status: RO Russell G. Dushin said: > > Providing you have a STOCK exhaust (which you do, we think) you can do the > following: > > a) loosen the bolts holding your starter in and disconnect the wires. > b) move the starter forward slightly until it clears the bell housing > ... Well, here is exactly where I hit the problem - as I move the starter directly forward, it hits the vertical portion of the exhaust downpipe well before the rear of the starter clears the bellhousing. I would guess that I need a good inch of additional clearance. Tilting the starter in a vertical plane as I move it forward does not gain enough clearance because the forward edge of the starter still hits the exhaust pipe before the back end clears the bellhousing. Sideways tilting is very restricted because of the adjacent block and frame. I would just bite the bullet and pull the whole doggone manifold/exhaust pipe if it weren't for the fact that some of you folks keep talking about how it is indeed possible to remove the starter without doing all that. I am more than willing to fiddle for a while, but I *am* restricted to Euclidean geometries! :) Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:26:10 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Apr 1994 11:18:45 -0700 To: "Bryan White" , lro@stratus.com From: shibumi@cisco.com (Kenton A. Hoover) Subject: Re: Transfer case.. HELP! Status: RO At 08:31 04/08/94 -0700, Bryan White wrote: >What is the right way to shift the 1988's from 2wd into 4wd? Should you stop >first? My old RR needed to be moving between 5 - 10 MPH for the transfer case to engauge properly. If you tried from a stop you had to force it, and it didn't always engauge without a great deal of 'knashing of teeth'. FWIW... | Kenton A. Hoover Senior Systems Administrator | shibumi@cisco.com | | Engineering Computer Services | | | Cisco Systems, Inc. | +1 415 324 5249 | |===========================================================================| From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Apr 8 13:33:38 1994 Date: Fri, 8 Apr 94 14:20:59 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Apparently-To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: Re: Books, Tools & Starters Status: RO >I believe that AF and Whitworth are the same, but you might try a second >opinion. I read an article a while back regarding the history of Whitworth >fasters. As I recall prior to WWII a British analyst by the name of Whitworth >came up with the concept of a system of fasteners for military vehicles and >hardware that differed from both Metric and SAE. The benefit of this system >was that if an enemy army captured British equipment, they would find it >difficult to maintain in terms of tool and hardware compatability. After the >war they had all this surplus hardware that they couldn't unload in Europe, >the US, or Asia. So it got dumped apon the British motor industry (it may >have been a case of the lowest bidder). I don't recall where or when I read >this, so please forgive me if it is inaccurate. The story I read in Carroll Smith's 'Fasteners' book (a *very* good book, btw) was that Whitworth was a steam engineer in Victorian days. Boilers had a tendency to explode in those days so he came up with a new systems of threads whose significant contribution was not the different head sizing which we all curse but a new thread profile with circular arcs at the peaks and valleys which greatly reduced cracking and stress failures. Smith commented that the performance of the Whitworth thread has only been exceeded in recent years with new profiles (such as different rates for male and female so that they mate perfectly when in tension) developed for the aerospa