From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 90 rear tailgate From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:01:18 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I have been around a number of North American spec 90's now. One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. Has anyone else noticed this ? How about all you owners of 90's on the net, what is your reaction? Regards Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:57:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:06:32 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO HARD TOP FOR NORTH AMERCIAN 90'S Land Rover are currently developing a hard top for the North American 90. It will be made of two sided gel coated GRP in a low pressure molding process. It will be made of four pieces along the lines of a Series type hard top. there will be a roof section, including a side skylight on the sides. The side panels join the roof panel exactly half way up the roll over cage, so the side and roof panels have have half the cut out for the cage. The side panels have a full lenght big window in it, theredoes not appear any opening mechanism, just a fixed window. The side pices appear to wrap around at the rear , just like the series panels and have a small window either side of the tailgate. the rear door upper piece is the last panel. According to the pictures i have and the description it is a horizontally hinged piece that is hinged to the roof section and lifts up after the tailgate has been swung away. To me this was pretty predictable for a number of reasons. The North Amercian Standard (NAS as Land Rover call it) 90 has had problem in getting of the lot. To potential buyers the idea of an insecure vehcile is not going over well, in addition the road noise of the soft top is a constant feature of just about test review of the vehcile. There are a number of refinements to be done but this is basically the final version. The colour of the hard top will be similar to that of the current soft top, a kind of graphite grey black. It will retail for about $3000 and will be available in the fourth quarter LR say. All these details are subject to fine tuning and change of course. I understand from another sources that the next model year of 90's might have a hard top fitted as standard and that it will be aluminum and will be painted the same colour as the rest of the vehcile. BTW the GRP version is designed to fit with all of the roll cage structure intact. Regards Robin Craig Ottawa , Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: toy 90 for sale, offers pls From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:47:17 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO FOR SALE In original box, torn one corner though, Briatins 90 British Telecom livery, yellow. Has not been played with so is in very best shape otherwise. Interested in swapping for the following $32 usd including sufrace shipping within North America OR what have you in the way of original old sales brochures and material such as decals etc manuals / books. Particularly looking for Shpperds desert crossing in 101's book. Will accept offers until midnight 7 october. Will close and decide then. Please reply directly to me Regards Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: possible sale of 127 in Canada From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 20:27:51 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO There is a good possibility that a Land Rover 127 will come up for sale soon. here are the details at present. Vehicle is currently road registered in Canada. Has 3.5 V8 engine, as standard. originally was a military ambulance but was damaged and has now been fitted with a flat rear body and has kept the original truck cab. Is currently in civilian hands. Any one who wishes to be informed of anymore details on this vehicle should reply directly to me. I am not the seller but have just heard about the vehicle through a friend. No idea on price as yet, not even a ball park figure. regds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 02:05:43 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Black Nineties To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 718 Status: RO Somebody mentioned black Nineties a few days ago. So much for only royalty having them! I just visited the Denver dealer. They received the first two two weeks ago, and another three this week. One sold already. They are part of a limited edition of 100 in the US. The 5 in Denver are the most sent to a single dealer. Leather seats appear to be the only distinctive item, and it jacks up the price another $1000. The Denver dealer also mentioned they will have hardtops for the Nineties in December (just about when new owners will be seeing the need for them!) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 01:23:09 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: LR current cite To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 512 Status: RO Here's the latest: Whale, Gregory R. Land Rover Defender 90 : 7,000 miles with a real four wheeler [long term test] FOUR WHEELER Vol. 31, no. 10 (Oct. 1994) p. 40-46 This is part of a continuing long term report on the vehicle that FOUR WHEELER named "Four Wheeler of the Year" in March 1994. This test vehicle has been places that no other could make. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 20:04:19 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 02:00:24 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: TV rover To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi all. Spotted another landie on tv tonight. A real one this time. I was watching a report on Eigil Knuth's 90'th birthday on natl tv. Knuth is a scientist and archeologist (sp?) and he has lived most of his life in the northernmost part of Greenland. He was to be driven to the cabin for the celebration. The tele company working in these parts provided the vehicle. It was a SII Land-Rover in absolutely mint condition. Not a scratch in the paint or a dent in the body. Even the interior looked brand new. The climate is extremely dry so rust and rot has some difficulties having a feast on cars and machines. There was also some footage from Station Nord and a guy called Henning was interviewed. Hey - i used to speak on the radio with him a while ago. And play chess. Small world ain't it. Later +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 06:20:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: do you live near Mickey's place? From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 20:18:20 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within 20 minutes drive? Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 20:27:23 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 21:24:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO 10. You buy Rover models at car boot sales. 9. You buy Witworth tools at car boot sales. 8. You run out and join the AA. 7. Your insurance agent asks you if you've got the letter/s reversed. 6. You're applying for petrol credit cards. 5. You keep on hearing your self say: "No, its the other L-reg". 4. Your friends are buying stock in the petrol company. 3. The vehicle has a history. 2. The vehicle comes with a boot full of spares & shop manual. 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and swap all the metric spanners for English ones. --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:06:05 1994 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Sender: "Malcolm956" To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 21:59:27 EDT Subject: A) Newport & B) dwell Status: RO Part A) > Ladies, gentleman, members of the jury: > Please allow me to plead my case. I am not sure who is on the jury, but, if I am included, I have been thoughtful in my deliberations and have not read any tabloid accounts of your adventures. Where does the balance point lie: Brooke Shields or a three weight? Either is expensive, but three weights come a great deal closer to my budget (and interest), so I think that I will go that way. A 3 will probably be next in my 5, 7 and 10 (salt) collection. As to the testimony, and I quote, "Lemme tell ya folks, Nige, the li'l woman and I were *stylin'*." Amen!!! Further, I suggest that if any "li'l woman" is willing to put up with what you and Nigel have undoubtedly put her through, she might be well worth hanging on to. I courted my wife of more than thirty years in a TD which had Lucas wipers and no heater, Smiths or otherwise. In any event, as to the pleading of your case, I award you a NINE POINT NINE. I would of done a TEN except that somewhere, sometime there MAY be a better story. Part B: The mundane. Can anyone give me point gap in terms of degrees dwell for a '65 SWB IIa? A later model distributor has been installed, with a square-ish distributor cap rather than the earlier round one, if that makes any difference. Thanx: Malcolm From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:33:16 1994 Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 22:29:22 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Andrew Steele From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Sweepstakes w/ Defender 90 Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Did anyone ever get the rules to this [defender] sweepstakes? I sent in a SASE several weeks back and received no reply. I'd really like to enter! -jory p.s. Recently, I am having a problem where I have an oil pressure drop ("seen" via dummy light) when I come to a stop (or whenever there is a drop to idle-speed). However, it only happens after the car is well warmed up. When the light comes on, continuously applying just a little bit of gas will turn it off again (you may recall that I am temporarily without an oil pressure gauge, after mine self-destructed last month, spraying oil all over my engine compartment, etc). It seems like this problem would likely be related to temprature-dependent changes in the oil viscosity, but I am unsure exactly what is occurring... or if I should worry about it. I am running synthetic oil in the engine. One the one hand, I think the pressure is just a tad low for the sensor, and I shouldn't really be concerned. The I think of the true import of the green dummy light, and all the money involved, and I start to get nervous... Any suggestions? >Hello all, >I just opened my October edition of OUTSIDE magazine and on page 171 found the >River Wild Sweepstakes. Mindyou, I never bother to waste the $0.29 to enter >these damn thing; but in this case.... > >"If you think you can handle a vacation on The Rive Wild, then take one" >Universal Studios. The River Wild Sweepstakes = grand prize: one 1994 Land >Rover Deender 90 in bright double AA yellow plus a 5 day Grand Canyon >whitewater rafting trip for two. Sweepstakes open to residents of U.S. 18 yrs >or older. > >For a copy of official rules, send self-addressed stamped envelope to "The >River Wild" Rules, P.O. Box 56436, Sherman Oaks CA 91413 > >Mail entries to PO BOx 6044, Sherman Oakes, CA 91413. > >{It does'nt say if a blank card can be sent in rather than the card} > >Drawing on 11/15/94. This seems to be a promotion for Hign Seas Adventure on >the Discovery Channel, Sept 23-25 beginning at 8 p.m. >{I don't have cable so someone will have to post if they have any Rovers on >the show} > >Standard disclaimer -- I don't have any relation to the above; except it's >contained in my copy of the magizine etc.... > >In case I don't win, I'm still looking to find a Diesel ?. If you run across >one, please let me know. > >Andrew/ Dayton Ohio >87 RR and one mixed Grey Hound/Great Dane. From thelist@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au Sun Oct 2 23:36:11 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 14:37:42 +1000 Reply-To: thelist@gu.edu.au Sender: thelist@gu.edu.au Precedence: bulk From: Mark Hessling To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Bug in THE 2.0 beta with TABSIN Status: RO In reply to Regis BOSSUT: >I just installed THE 2.0 Beta on a HP-UX platform. I got a lot of warnings at >compile time, but THE runs fine, except that in my profile file, the following >line hangs it : 'set tabsin on 8' so I had to comment it out. The problem with TABSIN ON and several other profile commands has been corrected although they are not yet available :-( I hope to get another beta available soon. The next beta will (hopefully) also include a Microsoft Windows version. This port is being done by Ken Robinette. I am also working on an X-Windows port as well. I'm not sure when it will be ready for beta-testing. >I must admit that THE 2.0 added features are making it really close to XEDIT. >I just regret the change in the up-down key changes (CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB is >not longer valid...) >Any chance to get back to the previous mode ?... The functionality of CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB is still in THE 2.0. What the last arguments of CMDARROWS indicated the behaviour of the left/right/up/down arrows. The behaviour of these keys can now be controlled individually using the CURSOR [SCREEN] LEFT|RIGHT|UP|DOWN command. By default, CURL is defined as CURSOR LEFT, CURR is defined as CURSOR RIGHT, etc To get the behaviour of CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB, define CURL CURSOR SCREEN LEFT, define CURR CURSOR SCREEN RIGHT, etc. The next beta will also have another option for CURSOR LEFT and CURSOR RIGHT, which will enable the default KEDIT behaviour of the left and right arrow keys. >By the way, I didn't find the ilp client on gu.edu.au. Where is it hidden ? Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the "ilp client" ? Cheers, Mark. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Hessling Email: M.Hessling@gu.edu.au DBA,ITS Phone: +617 875 7691 Griffith University Fax: +617 875 5314 Nathan, Brisbane ***** PDCurses Maintainer ***** QLD 4111 *** Author of THE and GUROO *** Australia ======= Member of RexxLA ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 06:20:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 12:14:57 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410030124.VAA08958@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 2, 94 9:24 pm Status: RO > > > 10. You buy Rover models at car boot sales. > > 9. You buy Witworth tools at car boot sales. > > 8. You run out and join the AA. > > 7. Your insurance agent asks you if you've got the letter/s reversed. > > 6. You're applying for petrol credit cards. > > 5. You keep on hearing your self say: "No, its the other L-reg". > > 4. Your friends are buying stock in the petrol company. > > 3. The vehicle has a history. > > 2. The vehicle comes with a boot full of spares & shop manual. > > 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and > swap all the metric spanners for English ones. > > --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com > > 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase > |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." > 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" > Bill, Oooooh....I like it:-)Dixon,that's just *got* to go in the FAQ. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:13:59 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:06:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Defender 90 Soft Top Problems To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven asks: >> Maybe I'm in a state of blissful ignorance but what problems are there with the top? And what does this "proper replacement" consist of? >> I ran into Chris Laws of Badger Coachworks at the Baystate meet this past weekend. He pointed out some of the problems of the 90 top. They include thin gauge windows, crooked/poor stiching, poor fit (= flapping + wind noise) difficult to adjust straps. He redoes the stitching in some areas, replaces the windows with heavier zip in windows, replaces all the zippers (originals are poor quality), adjusts the fit, and uses velcro straps. You can call him at 508-394-2680. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:20:36 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:16:25 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: US Defender 110 Dealer Costs To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven writes: >> They did. LR imported 500 Defender 110's during '93 at around $41,000 apiece. I've seen two (or maybe the same one twice) in the L.A. area. >> In a 1992 copy of a book by Simon and Schuster detailing car retail and dealer costs, they listed the base price of the 1993 Defender 110 at $39,900 and the dealer cost at $34,400. The winch package retailed at $1900 and dealer cost was $1520. If anyone is interested. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:41:17 1994 To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: 90 rear tailgate In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Oct 1994 17:01:18 CDT." Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 05:38:14 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Robin asks, I have been around a number of North American spec 90's now. One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. Has anyone else noticed this ? How about all you owners of 90's on the net, what is your reaction? ANSWER: Yes now that you mention it, I have noticed the tailgate to be a bit sloppy when closing. Once closed however, it seems to be nice and tight. The weight of that big tire/wheel combination must be close to 50-60 pounds, get it swinging too fast closing the gate and there is considerable momentum there. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:46:25 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:44:09 -0400 To: lro@stratus.com From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Subject: Any Early (April/May) US Disco Owners? Status: RO Gentle Readers: Warning: Don't bother with this unless you're really bored. It's incredibly trivial. Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I mean purchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash (three times) when you lock the vehicle? Why, you might ask, do I care? Well, I recently purchased exactly such a beast (used, of course), and mine don't. I mentioned it at my last oil change, and, compulsive as he is, the service manager wanted to keep the car and fix it. "Okay" I said. After two days of struggling with it, they couldn't figure out what was wrong. The service manager and I started wondering if, since mine was an early vehicle, they were even supposed to work that way. Maybe only later shipments had the flashing lights. While they're researching it on their end, I thought I'd check with the net. If pressed hard, I can actually think of one semi-practical advantage of this feature. According to the owners manual at least, if, when you (think you) lock the car, one of the doors isn't closed, the parking lights won't flash, thus alerting you to the unsecured vehicle. BTW, I can speak quite well of (at least this particular) Land Rover service department. Without any request from me, they supplied a rental car, and they actually were going to keep the Disco longer (and me in the Geo Prizm, yuck) I guess until they resolved the issue. I realize the triviality of this, but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies encouraged). Please send any serious replies via email since I doubt there's general interest in this topic. Thanks in advance. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:54:47 1994 To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Hard Top for NAS 90 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Oct 1994 17:06:32 CDT." Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 05:47:19 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Robin says, The colour of the hard top will be similar to that of the current soft top, a kind of graphite grey black. It will retail for about $3000 and will be available in the fourth quarter LR say. ANSWER: The part number was released last Thursday, my hard top is SUPPOSED to be here in 3 weeks, costing $2000. Got my fingers crossed as it's already down to 38-F in the mornings, a bit chilly/breezy in a car with no top. Great fun once in a while but not for every day driving. No flames about cold winters from the Canucks, we know you guys are supermen, taking baths in frozen lakes etc. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 90 Range Rover Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 08:41:54 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 09:33:39 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Flashing Rover Things To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven asks: >> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies encouraged). >> When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a flash. :-) Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 09:32:14 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:28:03 +0100 From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Flashing Disco lights Cc: sat@eng.tridom.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 446 Status: RO Our Disco TDi was built in the UK in July 1993. When you activate the central locking/immobilizer with one remote keyfob the lights flash once, with the other they flash three times. I'm certain both keyfobs used to flash thrice so they can clearly forget what to do :-) We've not bothered the dealer with this to date. We have heard stories that changing the batteries on these fobs can also prove both costly and tedious. Martin Farrall From ccray Mon Oct 3 09:57:24 1994 Subject: Mr. Personality To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:57:24 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2713 Status: RO I want to come out right up front and thank Richard Jones (richardj@apricot.co.uk) for the excellent "New RR" series. His fingers must surely be sore from all that typing. And you ask, where is this leading? I went to two parties this weekend. These are my wife's invitations and I accompany her. Jan (that's the wife) calls me "Mr. Personality" at parties. It is probably true. While she "works the room", I stake out a corner of the bar and am content at talking to one or two people (or maybe none at all). And over the years, I learned not to talk the religion/politics/sex stuff `cause that can get you into troubled, heated conversations. In mixed company, I am not allowed to bring up the "land rover" topic unless someone asks me first. So, over time, I have learned to back into the subject with phrases like "...what kind of car do you drive" or "...I worked on my car..." in response to a "...what did you do today..." question. And I can always honestly say "...he/she brought the subject up..." when reprimanded. Well this weekend, I had them eating out of my hand. At both parties we were discussing the the subject of the "New RR" and I had the facts. Most people were not aware of the "New RR" so it is amazing that we managed to get onto that topic. When I pointed out the new features, functions and benefits that I had gleaned from Richard's LRO posting, the people were impressed. At one point, there were 6 people gathered around and being entertained by "Mr. Personality". And even Jan was impressed when one of the "important people" said to her "...Ray sure knows his Range Rovers -- I always wanted to buy one of those..." On Sunday morning, at breakfast, I was still going strong. It was like a scene from a movie: "...the New RR has retained the black e-pillar..." says I. "...I want to try the avacodo recipe in this months cooking lite..." says she. "...the New RR has retained the castel bonnet..." I replied. "...we are going to eat diet meals this week..." she responded. Now, I heard every word she said, but I somehow don't think my thoughts were transferred. Anyway, I am going to print out the "New RR" series and take it home for Jan to read. And I will review them, also, for there is another party Wednesday nite... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:14:56 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: do you live near Mickey's place? To: Robin Craig Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01FLTc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well, almost...My parents live in Orlando and I live in Tampa...Can I be of service to you? reply e-mail:swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Steve On Sun, 2 Oct 1994, Robin Craig wrote: > Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within > 20 minutes drive? > > Rgds > > Robin Craig > > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:14:56 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: do you live near Mickey's place? To: Robin Craig Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01FLTc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well, almost...My parents live in Orlando and I live in Tampa...Can I be of service to you? reply e-mail:swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Steve On Sun, 2 Oct 1994, Robin Craig wrote: > Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within > 20 minutes drive? > > Rgds > > Robin Craig > > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:30:48 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 11:10:31 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Spent Saturday at the Mid-Atlantic site putting the finishing touches on several things. The mud bog, while not full becaouse of the dry weather (2 months) is still belly-deep on a big dog. The climb/turn out of the pit should be a real challenge once properly wet down. Completed and tested the teeter-totter just after dark. Mike has done an exceptional job...it's bloody strong...could be used for a portable bridge. It's also well off the ground and at the crest of a hill...*scary*. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:30:48 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 11:10:31 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Spent Saturday at the Mid-Atlantic site putting the finishing touches on several things. The mud bog, while not full becaouse of the dry weather (2 months) is still belly-deep on a big dog. The climb/turn out of the pit should be a real challenge once properly wet down. Completed and tested the teeter-totter just after dark. Mike has done an exceptional job...it's bloody strong...could be used for a portable bridge. It's also well off the ground and at the crest of a hill...*scary*. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 11:27:24 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Defender 90 Sales in Eastern US Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 09:22:47 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I was talking to a person who sells Defender 90s in Massachusetts and he claimed to sell between 6 and 10 Defender 90s a month. Just for another data point.... -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 11:44:54 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 09:39:45 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO In message writes: > HARD TOP FOR NORTH AMERCIAN 90'S SO why can't a defender 90 owner just import a standard Defender 90 hard top from the UK (maybe a nice used one), remove the US spec roll bar & put the hard top on their US spec 90? They could get it sooner & maybe save some $$$. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 16:23:32 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 11:23:55 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@Team.Net Subject: New RR Status: RO I would like to second the votes of thanks to Richard Jones for providing all the info about the new RR. At this point my interest is mainly academic, but it's great fun imagining. One thing I was a bit disappointed about in all the specs was that it's pretty hard to find any evidence that Land Rover devoted any attention to improving off-road performance (granted that it was already pretty stupendous). On the contrary, we see that the departure angle and breakover angle are worse than the old RR, and the roll resistance has been increased by 30% -- always a bad sign for off-road. The tweaks to the air suspension seem to be focussed on the low and access modes. Although the tyre size has been increased, by my calculations the outside diameter is still the same -- they are just fatter. Perhaps this is all sour grapes on my part! In spite of these things, it looks like a magnificent vehicle. Many thanks once again John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:14:27 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"caloccia@sw.stratus.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Bill Caloccia writes... > Subj: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" > > > "Lucas Industries, already convicted of selling shoddy goods to the U.S. > military, faces criminal investigation into whether it falsified the > inspection of parts used on Boeing airliners." > > _Roundel_, "Briefs", Sept. 1994. > So... this is news?? Oy! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) LUCAS A hard days work and Home before dark! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 18:01:45 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" Date: Mon, 03 Oct 94 18:32:21 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO "Lucas Industries, already convicted of selling shoddy goods to the U.S. military, faces criminal investigation into whether it falsified the inspection of parts used on Boeing airliners." _Roundel_, "Briefs", Sept. 1994. _Roundel_ is 'The magazine of BMW Car Club of America, Inc.' (Actually, a very good magazine, even if most of the articles are whinging on about how great the BMW nnn is or how better it ought to be. The undisputed information channel for the skinny on the better electronic counter measure and detection equipment, not to mention they picked up Satch Carlson after Autoweek dumped him.) [All that and membership in BMWCCA gets you the abililty to do 'drivers schools', which is why I joined.] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 20:54:59 1994 Date: 03 Oct 94 21:47:34 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO Robin Craig writes: > ...the next model year of 90's might have a hard top fitted as standard > and that it will be aluminum... Sounds like this would be more or less permanent. Having the option of a hard top would be nice although the noise doesn't really bother me and open air driving is ok most of the year in Southern California. It's nice to hear that this is retrofittable and the same color as the current soft top although $3000 is a lot. Can I hope this is CD$ and not $US . > BTW the GRP version is designed to fit with all of the roll cage > structure intact. Does this include the rear portion of the cage used with the soft top? Thanks for the information! Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 20:55:13 1994 Date: 03 Oct 94 21:47:39 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: 90 rear tailgate Status: RO Robin Craig writes: > One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the > lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate > with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. I have also noticed this. What is happening is that the latch mechanism is not fully engaged as the tailgate tends to "bounce". So the result is the tailgate can move. One should obviously not drive with the tailgate in this state as a no-notice opening could occur. Three tries or so should result in the tailgate completely closing in a solid fashion with no "bounce". I seem to have had more success if I try to close the tailgate with the minimum of force. Of course one try should do it but I have not yet found it sufficiently annoying to look at myself or take to the dealer. One note: there is no play in the door hinges that I've noticed, I suspect the latch is the problem, perhaps some lubrication or adjustment. Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 00:56:30 1994 From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: Repost!!! Please To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 239 Status: RO The people that were importing LR's that were due the 4th Oct. I got the mail, bu tin attempts to save it, the editor ate it. I would like an address, so I can decide because of my own decision, not because I lost the mail. :) Thanks From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:35:15 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: maloney@wings.attmail.com, lro@team.net, denis@oswego.edu X-Vms-To: INTERNET"maloney@wings.attmail.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" INTERNET"denis@oswego.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Yep.. it's getting just a bit toooo quite around here... Stephan Thomas, proud Disco owner wonders why his lights don't flash. And then Baloney, er Maloney, seeing a chance for fame and glory, in a FLASH of inspiration, tells of all sorts of flash..... > From: IN%"maloney@wings.attmail.com" 3-OCT-1994 09:46:45.97 > To: IN%"LRO@stratus.com" > CC: > Subj: Flashing Rover Things > > > Steven asks: > > >> > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > encouraged). > >> > You blew it Stephan... "humorous replies" indeed!.. So Maloney says.... > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and> > > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. OK Bill... I'm fowarding this to Steve Denis. Poor boy is tied up (Please, not the tied up bit!) in school studying hard. (Or studying coeds? I'm sure thats hard to take...) Parking lights flash when you lock the vehicle?? Whaaattt?? Cheers... Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:11:15 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:03:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Def 90 Hardtop recent post To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO What is "gel-coated GRP"? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 18:59:05 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: New Land Rover Club & Gear box troubles To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 9:37:45 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Thought I would just like to inform every-one of the formation of a new Land- Rover club, in Gippsland, in Victoria, Australia. The club held its second monthly meeting last night, and I became a member last night! Currently there are only about 35 members, but the club is only two months old. Also what are people experiances with broken layshafts, as I broke mine, trying to roll start my diesel, and I only reliased when I tried to move it under its own power a couple of weeks later, when there was a grinding noise coming from the gear box. I hope I do not have to replace the gear box, as I doubt I will get another Series 1 gear box, and I would just miss that dip stick!! Thats all for now! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 10:53:34 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 08:43:40 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au, lro@team.net Subject: Re: New Land Rover Club & Gear box troubles Status: RO In message <9410032337.AA09480@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Craig Murray writes: . > > Also what are people experiances with broken layshafts, as I broke mine, > trying to roll start my diesel, and I only reliased when I tried to move it > under its own power a couple of weeks later, when there was a grinding noise > coming from the gear box. I hope I do not have to replace the gear box, as > I doubt I will get another Series 1 gear box, and I would just miss that > dip stick!! > Greg, I lost the layshaft in my series IIA 109 a month ago. I was pulling out from a stop and it sounded like the transmission poped out of gear. There was no first or second, third was fery loud so I imeediatly got out of that gear. Fourth worked fine. I drove back on fourth. Mine was a clean break and all I needed was a new layshaft. I could see an irregularity in the centre of the shaft where it broke. Talking to Scotty (the local Land Rover Geru), he seems to think that about one in a hundred lay shafts had an irregularity. Its always at the same place on the laysaft. I guess I would recommending having any lay shaft you use X-rayed, and X-ray an old intact one during a rebuild. Of course this would only need to be done once. Hope you get it fixed OK. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 11:33:56 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. To: twakeman@apple.com ("TeriAnn Wakeman" ) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 12:27:21 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410041543.AA14936@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Oct 4, 94 8:43 am Status: RO SNIP - SNIP > > > Greg, > I lost the layshaft in my series IIA 109 a month ago. I was pulling out from a > stop and it sounded like the transmission poped out of gear. There was no first > or second, third was fery loud so I imeediatly got out of that gear. Fourth > worked fine. I drove back on fourth. > > Mine was a clean break and all I needed was a new layshaft. I could see an > irregularity in the centre of the shaft where it broke. Talking to Scotty (the > local Land Rover Geru), he seems to think that about one in a hundred lay shafts > had an irregularity. Its always at the same place on the laysaft. > > I guess I would recommending having any lay shaft you use X-rayed, and X-ray an > old intact one during a rebuild. Of course this would only need to be done > once. > > Hope you get it fixed OK. Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a couple of weeks. Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu King George, Va. '66' IIA 88 RHD > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 12:49:01 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:37:44 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. Status: RO In message <199410041629.MAA08508@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" > Hope you get it fixed OK. > > Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest > on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the > foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? > I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a > couple of weeks. > > Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu > King George, Va. > '66' IIA 88 RHD > > Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a half. I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. The price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow mw to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can get a before photo of the Green Rover. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 13:24:52 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: lro@team.net Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known far enough in advance. Many thanks John Brabyn Mill Valley California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 14:22:01 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 15:12:04 EST To: lro@team.net, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: lighting science - long post, delete if you don't care... Content-Length: 11154 Status: RO Fellow netters, Since I'm a confirmed quartz halogen junkie, I've been asked to discuss the specifics of European headlamp aiming. It is an art rather than a science, but anyone can do it with a flat parking lot, a little time on their hands and some darkness. True European headlamps (H4, H1, etc.) typically do not have the appropriate mounting points for American headlamp aiming machines so they must be aimed by hand. H1, H2, H3, H4 all refer to a specific style of bulb. They are quite different and not interchangeable. The H4 is the only style that has a dual filament. The lens and reflector may be unique to a specific style of car - 1994 Volvo 850, for instance. Or it may be a common shape, 7 inch round or quad rectangular... Most systems sold in the US are sealed, that is the lens, reflector and bulb are a single integrated unit, just like a 70 watt lightbulb for your reading lamp. Others have replaceable bulbs, like your Bosch or Hella fog lights and virtually all European headlamp systems. The rational behind this is that the lens and reflector don't wear nearly as quickly as the bulb, so the high quality optical lens/reflector is reusable the cheap part (the bulb), which wears out, is replaceable. In addition, this allows manufacturers to design aerodynamic lenses if desired (early Saab 9000, Audi 5000, Porsche 911, etc.) Most of these cars have different headlamp configurations in the US and Europe (older Saab 900, Audi 4000) although some manufacturers *are* trying to standardize (late Saab 9000, Land Rover Discovery, BMW), which may mean that European lighting is getting poorer *or* US lighting is getting better. YMMV. BTW, I believe that most of Canada now follows the more restrictive US lighting codes. Usually lamp assemblies are referred to by their style - Volvo 240 aero, or Volvo 240 quad rectangular, not H4. In fact the quad rectangular takes two different bulbs, the H4 for the outboard combo lo/hi and H1 (if memory serves) for the inboard high beam. But the quad rectangular (lo/hi) or 7 inch round could either be US sealed beam or European lamps, which would take H4 bulbs. So some people may say 7 inch round H4, meaning 7 inch round Euro... Bulb Availability I buy my bulbs from Imparts. They seem to offer the best prices on bulbs at about $11 or so per high powered bulb 90/100 or 100/130. They also have high powered 9004s, for late model Saabs, Volvos, and a variety of other cars and trucks. You can reach them at 800 325-9043. I've run 80/100s in H4 quad setups on an '82 Volvo 244T. No problem with wiring or blinding people. OTOH, I have fried several wiring connectors on my wife's Saab 9000 with 70/80 and 80/100 watt bulbs, but it uses a 9004 bulb with a very poorly designed connector. I recently upgraded the connectors with new heavy-duty ones from Competition Limited. These use a much more robust female connector. Haven't had any problems since. I'm currently (ahem) running 90/100s in my '88 Volvo 745T and have used these wattage bulbs since the car was new. I run my headlights day and night and typically get about a year! out of a bulb. I've got a set of 100/130s in the toolkit just waiting to be installed when the last of the 90/100s goes. Proper aiming of the lamps will help keep you from blinding people, but the fact is that in some circumstances, coming over the crest of a hill for instance, the concentrated light from the H4 will bother people no matter whether you've got 55 watts or 130. Passing can also be a problem. Don't linger behind someone as you're passing them. The "hot spot" of your beam pattern shines right on their mirrors and into their eyes. Makes them rather cranky. If you see your beam pattern heading toward their mirror, just pick up the pace a bit. BTW, trucks can be particularly sensitive to this and may take countermeasures you won't like. So be careful when passing. Low Beam Aiming Aiming is straightforward. First, find a completely level area that borders a wall. Drive right up to the wall and mark a spot on the wall directly opposite the center of each lowbeam. Then back up about 10 feet. You want the hot spot to hit just below and to the right of that mark, about 3 inches down and to the right. Here's what the pattern will look like, with apologies to you gui fans: / / / / X / X / ---------- ---------- The X is your mark. The hot spot is where the diagonal and horizontal lines meet. This will ensure that as traffic approaches, the hot spot won't be pointing up into their eyes. I've been asked why I run such high-powered lights on my cars. Personally, I think that most people vastly overdrive their lowbeams in anything but ideal conditions. So I like that extra margin of the additional light on the road. Aiming High Beams The procedure for aiming high beams is a little different than that for aiming low beams. The goal of aiming low beams is to ensure that the hot spot stays on the road in front of you and away from oncoming drivers, that's why you want the hot spot to gradually drop off the further away you get, with the top of the hot spot falling onto the road some 50 or 100 feet away from the car and to the right. With high beams you don't care about oncoming traffic, unless of course you're trying to fry retinas. Instead you care about maximum beam dispersion. So you trust the lamp designer to provide a good pattern with good light control and dispersion and simply aim them directly ahead or perhaps angled outward just slightly. It's a little difficult to do this using the low beam aiming technique because of the size of the high beam hot spot, but a modified version works. By the way, you do not need to re-aim the high beams of an H4 (single reflector) setup. Once the low beams have been aimed, the high beams are also properly set. The dual filament bulb casts low and high beams onto different portions of the lens, providing discrete beam patterns for each setting. Keep in mind that a quad setup has 4 lamps firing on high beam, since the low beams have a secondary pattern on high. Don't re-aim the outer lamps for their high beam pattern. In fact whil you're aiming the high beams, it is probably wise to unplug the low beams and deal only with the inner lamps. For the high beams, move right up to the wall described earlier. Make sure you're on absolutely level ground or the aiming will be thrown off. Mark an X directly opposite the center of each high beam. Now very slowly back away from the wall, taking care not to pitch the car with acceleration or to run into anything behind you... The high beam hot spot should grow around that X, but not move away from being centered on it. If anything, it should come up just slightly. Readjust as necessary. Fog lights Contrary to popular opinion, fog lamps are not designed to be aimed directly at the ground for maximum illumination or directly up into the air to illuminate low-flying aircraft. Fog lamps have a broad flat beam pattern with a sharp cutoff. They should be aimed directly ahead for maximum coverage, with a 5 degree or so downward slope to the beam pattern. For best road coverage they should be mounted below the bumper...for maximum protection they should be above the bumper...you choose. Aiming methodology is similar to that for low beams. On older lights I've had snow and ice create a thermal inversion that's cracked the lens. Hasn't happened recently though to either Bosch fogs on my Volvo or Hella fogs on the Saab (both factory supplied), but you should clear them of all snow and ice before you turn them on. And don't use snow to clean a lamp that's hot (learned that the hard way!) Other Auxiliary Lamps If you're adding driving or pencil beams, you know what you're doing. Checking Patterns Once all of your lights are properly aimed, you can run a couple of simple tests to verify. First, find a *very* level road. Turn your low beams on and walk about 75 feet away from the car. If you bend down, the hot spot of the light should strongly intensify as your head gets closer to the ground. The lamps should look lit but not blindingly so from normal height. Once you get to about a foot from the ground you should see the hot spot. You should also be able to see the beam cutoff on cars in front of you. As you move further away from the car in front of you, the cutoff should drop slightly. On level ground it should not be above taillight or trunk level. Aiming Mechanics There are two adjustments on each headlamp, one dictating left/right aiming, the other controlling up/down. These are little knurled knobs or similar, usually accessible from behind the lamp. These adjust how the entire lamp assembly is pointed in the assembly mounting structure, not the position of the bulb within the reflector, which is fixed. In addition, when you replace a bulb in a European style lamp (H4, etc.), you do not need to re-aim the lamp. In fact, when you replace a sealed beam unit, you should not have to re-aim that lamp either. (BTW, I had a set of Euro lamps that did have two separate bulbs in one housing with an adjustable high beam reflector, but that's a different story...) American spec lights all have fittings for a headlight aiming machine which aim them using bubble scopes rather than beam pattern. Some European lamps also have this fitting, but I'd trust my 15 years of aiming these things over a machine which would not be designed for European beam patterns. (Unless of course your parts place which sold you the lights *does* have a Euro lamp machine. I think the Tire Buying Place in Elmsford NY did at one point.) Also, BTW, if you are changing bulbs, make sure you don't touch the bulb portion of a headlight bulb with your finger. The grease from your finger on the glass of the bulb will cause it to overheat and fail prematurely. I believe isopropyl alcohol will clean it safely. The Law Legally, most European lamps are to be used for offroad purposes only. Sure! Replacement headlamps come with a sticker right over the lens that says so. I have *never* had a problem with either NY or MA inspection or police regarding any lamp I've run. (Keep the 8" rally lights covered) Other states and jurisdictions may be somewhat more restrictive, PA and MD particularly. So you may need to swap out lamps when you go to get your car inspected in these states. Or worse. Again, YMMV. I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on the Internet. You get in trouble, you're on your own... BTW, with enough lights on the front of your car, you may not need snow tires. Flip the lights on and instant dry pavement! Hope this helps. Please feel free to repost all or part of this anyplace you see fit. If you make any money with it, just send me half. Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com "Disclaimer? I don't need no stinkin' disclaimer!" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 19:20:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: subs to LRW From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 17:37:58 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO L R O 1 L R W 0 that should be the score board. I sent off a form for a subscription to the "other" Land Rover magazine LRW on 19 AUG of this year. I used THEIR promo form which states payment can be by credit card or "international money order". So i got a money order in Pounds Sterling from the good old Cnaadian Post office, which is cashable at any bank or post office in the UK. TODAY, i found it retunred from them saying that payments must be in the form of a cheque drawn on a uk account or a credit card!!! What an outfit, I ask you. Needless to say I will be on the horn in the am to really unleash my discontent, I will also call their editor to let him know what abunch of clowns they have working for them. BTW i have been using canadian postal money orders for years to the uk, work great, more secure than a credit card order by far, cos there is a refund available on them. rgds Outraged of Ottawa aka Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 20:22:03 1994 Date: 04 Oct 94 21:12:19 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Cc: Mike Fredette Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO Mike Fredette says: > ...my hard top is SUPPOSED to be here in 3 weeks,... Please give me your first hand opinion of the hardware and installation, I'd be very interested in hearing it (especially whether it can be done by one person in a reasonable amont of time). Thanks! Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 00:53:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Defender 90 success From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 21:12:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Jan Hilborn writes: > I have to concurr with Russ for Defender sales here in the east. I've > asked a round a bit if, say, oh, maybe in a year i might be able to get a > used 90 at a (somewhat) reasonable price and basically what i've heard is > that in a year or so i'll probably be able to get a *new* 90 at a > (somewhat) reasonable price. The common rumour up here is that the 90 is to be pulled in Canada. Sales are not there for it. $34k with a soft top, add $3k for a hard top and you are pretty close to the stripped Discovery at $39k. Rgds, Dixon PS. A site above mine somewhere is having major mail problems, so don't be surprised at the delays to responses or the possibility that mail may be getting lost. Though not for fourfold, at least I am getting a 56k link in my office later this week Time to add a new address to the mailing list (dkenner@emr.ca I think) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 22:04:28 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: subs to LRW To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 20:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Oct 4, 94 05:37:58 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1162 Status: RO Robin "Outraged in Ottawa" Craig writes: < L R O 1 L R W 0 It's a mixed bag, I suppose. LRO's editorial policy (or lack thereof) stinks, and LRW's subscription dept ain't got their act together. When I subscribed to LRW, I asked for it to start with Number 1, but they ignored my request and started me up at their convenience with Number 5. (At least the credit card option saves a lot of bank hassle and expense.) More disquieting news: LRW is not yet a year old and already on its third editor. Nigel Fryatt took over from Jerry Glenwright with no. 8, and two weeks ago, Alan Cade (sp?) came on board. Alan called me for urgent help: in the transition they lost half my manuscript scheduled for Dec. publication. (No problem: I faxed the missing pages.) I don't know the meaning of the rapid editorial changes, but the apparent disorder does not inspire confidence. I certainly hope they manage to stay afloat without alienating too many subscribers and contributors. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 21:41:16 1994 From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: subs to LRW To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Oct 4, 94 05:37:58 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1764 Status: RO > > L R O 1 L R W 0 > > that should be the score board. I sent off a form for a subscription to > the "other" Land Rover magazine LRW on 19 AUG of this year. > > I used THEIR promo form which states payment can be by credit card or > "international money order". > > So i got a money order in Pounds Sterling from the good old Cnaadian Post > office, which is cashable at any bank or post office in the UK. > > TODAY, i found it retunred from them saying that payments must be in the > form of a cheque drawn on a uk account or a credit card!!! > > Needless to say I will be on the horn in the am to really unleash my > discontent, I will also call their editor to let him know what abunch of > clowns they have working for them. > > rgds > > Outraged of Ottawa aka Robin Craig > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > Outraged Robin, Ah, the familiar feeling of being outflanked by sheer ignorance compounded by rank stupidity. If you really want to bring this to the attention of somebody who is motivated to do something about it (i.e., has a financial interest) call the publisher. The editor may or may not be inclined to take action; not his/her department, you know. Might not even be any communications. Kind of sad, though, that the UK is exhibiting these characteristics. I had the impression that this was the sort of thing that only happened in Third World countries and American financial institutions. Maybe they used to work for British Leyland. Commiserating in California aka Walt Swain From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 23:23:17 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Rovers at the Bay State Rover Club Rally Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 21:15:12 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I just got back from the Bay State Rover Club Rally and it was an interesting 700 mile trip without at functioning starter motor. (My starter worked until the first time it rained last week and then gave up the ghost of life. I think I'll going to try TeriAnn's suggestion of trying to revarnish it) The most interesting thing of the event in my view was the different type of Rovers present. Most of the events that I've gone had a grand majority of old Land Rovers and a few Range Rovers. This one was different. Here is an over view of the vehicles that were present: SIIA or SIIB Forward Control (the one was in the Rover's North catalog) 2 US Defender 110s 1 US Defender 90 (with dealer plates) 6 Range Rovers '85 German Spec 110 late SIIA xMoD 109 Pick Up SIIA 109 5 SIIA 88s (including the Badger) my SIII 88 2 or 3 Discoverys Quite a spectrum of Rovers. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 00:53:53 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 23:31:05 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > > 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and > > swap all the metric spanners for English ones. > Oooooh....I like it:-)Dixon,that's just *got* to go in the FAQ. Sure... :-) Though I never had any metric tools until I got the Rabbit a couple of years ago (since sent to its maker and replaced with a Saab 900 (had to get back to something semi British and the engine was the TR-7 lump)). Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 01:42:55 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:34:11 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: lotsa stuff Status: RO Well, I'll be. I certainly didn't know that! The two reasons I got an Internet address was for the LRO list and the Cognos Powerhouse list. Small world, eh? Is he a member of OVLR? Maybe I can get an LRO discount on the North American User Conference next June? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 06:49:22 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 07:45:19 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Allright, as a short timer here (uk) I'm going to stick out my neck and answer some questions... ------ From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu > What is "gel-coated GRP"? I think that is the UK phrase for fiberglass. (gel-coated glass re-enforced plastic) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Brabyn Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally > Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this > year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known > far enough in advance. >From little experience, I'll venture that it will continue to be held on the 'May (or Spring) Bank Holiday' weekend, which commonly falls about the same time as Memorial Day in the states (Monday May 29, 1995), I recall hearing that the host club this year is Linconshire, (and they are rumoured to have fun prowling about old quarries, which can be rough on vehicles). If you intend on entering any competitions,* you'll need to register soon, Due to some convoluted supremacy of the RAC (supreme automobile competition authority in the UK), you'll need to hold a valid RAC competition liscence to compete. For the purposes of the ARC nationals, this in practice, means you join a UK Rover ARC (and therefore, RAC) affiliated club, as full membership includes the appropriate right to compete, and insurance disclaimers, etc.. *speaking of which I don't recall seeing such in my recent Southern mailings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Walt Swain >From the discussion of problems at LRW and LRO: > Kind of sad, though, that the UK is exhibiting these characteristics. wrt the UK: 'customer service' is generally accepted to be an oxymoron on this island... though I must say I was amazed (in a positive way) during a recent trip to 'kwik fit' (muffler/brake/shock, etc. chain). Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 07:20:55 1994 Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service To: LRO list Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:06:11 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones In-Reply-To: <199410051145.HAA22332@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Oct 5, 94 07:45:19 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1182 Status: RO William Caloccia writes: > > From: John Brabyn > Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally > > > Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this > > year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known > > far enough in advance. > > From little experience, I'll venture that it will continue to be held on > the 'May (or Spring) Bank Holiday' weekend, which commonly falls about the > same time as Memorial Day in the states (Monday May 29, 1995), I recall > hearing that the host club this year is Linconshire, (and they are rumoured > to have fun prowling about old quarries, which can be rough on vehicles). > 27th - 29th May 1995 Blankney Park, Lincolnshire, England But was this the National Rally in question or was it with regard to a North American event? -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 07:20:51 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 08:06:21 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Bay State Meet To: LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.oswego.edu Content-Type: Text Status: RO This past weekend I attended the Bay State Rovers meet in Cape Cod. I arrived Friday at noon after a 6 hour drive in heavy stop and go traffic. Not fun. The wind on the Cape was estimated at 35mph and really cold (the national weather service said that the winds on the top of Mt. Washington were 95mph). I had to stake down my dome tent for the first time, and even at that the wind was blowing it almost flat. Chris Laws of Badger Coachworks was there with his well kitted IIA 88, his friend Dennis had a military 109 late IIA with canvas top, and another fellow had a recently redone IIA 88 in that new Defender green. Wow! Even though the bodywork had not been fully prepped, it looked great. It's a super color. Not many others showed up Friday evening and Jim and Cathy Papas were noticeably absent. Ben Smith arrived around 9pm after following somewhat questionable directions from myself bringing the OVLR contingent up to 2. After a downright frigid night (pull all the clothes out of your travel bag and pile them on your sleeping bag) some more folks showed up between 10 and noon. Jim Pappas brought his 110 and a 90, Andrew Cutting brought Jim's IIB(?) forward control, Mark Leteorney (sp) of Rover's North arrived with his '85 110, and Chris Velonis arrived that evening bringing a new 110 and a new babe (and a rather attractive one at that). There were several others I did not recognize bringing the total to the mid 20s. One of the Disco's included a rather attractive young lady. We almost choked when we found she was 14. Cathy Papas did a great job of flipping dogs & burgers on the grill for lunch, then we headed out on the off road trip. Chris Laws had to leave his Rover behind due to a snapped downpipe. The same failure reportedly happened to him last year. Forget about genuine parts. It's time for him to use some new parts for a change (Buy a new pipe, Chris!). The trails were tight with brush on either side and hard packed for the most part with some softer sandy stuff here and there. A little mud could be found but nothing you could get stuck in. There was one section where the bikers had made some woop de dos, which made for a rather entertaining drive. At mid point, we parked in a wider softer sandy area where Mark gave a winching demonstration. Very informative with a strong emphasis on safety. That evening Jim had a catered clambake at the campground. I'm not a clam fan, so I passed, but the folks that took part enjoyed it very much. Jim passed out canvas Range Rover bags to the club members with Range Rover Visors and mini binoculars. Ben wasn't included until I suggested he join the club. He did and got a bag out of it. Jim also had many photos and specs on the new Range Rover. It's a good looking vehicle but even if I could afford it I couldn't afford to maintain it. There seemed to be 3 distinct cliques/groups that evening. The Land Rover contingency down by the lake who brought their own food & beer for the most part, the Range Rover/Disco crowd that did the expensive clambake at the high ground with more beer, and down in the lower reaches of the campground below the outhouse lurked Chris Velonis in the DEAD ZONE. With all the music, beer, and accompanying social activities normally found at Dead concerts. I discovered the reason folks bought the 110 Defenders, and that was so that you had enough room to carry your cubic yard of CDs. Ben was right, this was a rather different rally. Later in the evening Jim fired up a portable generator to power a TV and VCR showing Land Rover videos. There wasn't a site in the campground that didn't reverberate with the sound of that generator. The two other organized "events" were a raffle and a folder of Rover parts to be identified. Both were held after I left, but Ben was kind enough to bring back my winnings. I received another Range rover bag with visor, a Range Rover Beer cooler (pretty neat-now I have a place for my extra Land Rover patch), and a box of ROVER cookies. Baked with 90wt for sure. Speaking for myself, no rally is complete without coming home with some goodies. And aside from the items I won, I bought a Bay State sweat shirt to replace my OVLR sweat shirt for the weekend (Oh, oh, I can feel the flames coming). The Bay State sweat shirt was MUCH heavier, and as I am not anywhere near as hardy as my fellow OVLR members (I've never skinny dipped with Dixon, Dale, or Bates in a frozen lake), I had to put survival first. I must confess, the sweatshirt did make a difference. It would be a bit much in the summer, though. I also got from Ben 100+ feet of his big bloody rope. We made it an even trade for my spare clutch master and slave rebuild kit (yes, it was a fair trade). Saturday night rained cats & dogs and I decided to leave early Sunday morning. Fortunately the weather cleared and the route I chose to take home, although being 20-30 miles longer, saved me an hour and a half off the direct route using 95. Over all, it was OK. The best part was getting to see everyone again, and I really enjoyed meeting Andrew Cutting from the UK. Also it was nice to see Mark in a setting away from Rover's North where he was just one of the guys. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon Wayne, NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 09:28:58 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 09:59:06 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Leaving right now (Wed. 10 AM) for the rally site, as there are still a few loose ends to tie up. If you are planning to attend and have not registered, bring your own food, as the final numbers have been given to the caterers. As of PM Tuesday, over 60 Rovers from as far away as Sarasota, FL had registered. All marques too, from a '51 Sries I to new Discos. For those who wanted T-Shirts, there probably will not be any left...we printed up twelve dozen and they are *spectacular* in SIX print colors. I expect them to sell out quickly. All of the parts suppliers have donated some really great prizes: ABP gave a receiver-mount bike rack, BR a hi-lift, RN a MAX tool and CCC Auto Accessories some great enamel Land Rover signs. And of course, the Camel Trophy stuff from RJR. Reports to follow.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 10:04:25 1994 Date: 05 Oct 94 10:50:44 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Next Land Rover National Rally Status: RO John Brabyn wrote: >Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this Next years's ARC *Inter*national Rally (as it is now called) will be held on the british spring Bank Holiday * May 27 - 29 1995 * at a site just south of Lincoln and hosted by the 'Lincolnshire Land Rover Club Ltd'. For further information, call or write snailmail to: Eric Rawlings, 23 Banovallum Gardens, Horncastle, Lincolnshire LN9 6PN, voice: 0507-526847 Cheers, Stefan LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 11:16:43 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 11:34:56 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Rollbars & Softtops To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO At the Baystate meet a fellow with a IIA 88 had a rollbar fitted along with hoops & a canvas top. The horizontal side bars that connect the front and rear hoops are mounted on the outside of the bars at the front (instead of inside) and seems to cause no problem (I would take care to make sure there are no sharp edges to contact the top). The rollbar attaches to the galvanized body cappings 1.5" aft of the front hoop. He had to cut a 1" hole in the lower part of the capping to allow the fitment of the rear nut for the rear bar mounting plate. It's similar to the hole for the mounting of the center side hardtop brackets. He purchased the roll bar from DAP for around $200. It looks like a nice set up (the bar is a Lightweight roll bar). Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 12:05:07 1994 Date: 05 Oct 94 12:47:06 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: New Range Rover & the men behind it Status: RO Folks, I came across a very interesting article by a Chris Barrie in the british daily newspaper "The Guardian" of 29 Sept. (on page 19, section 'finance and economics') that gives some insight to the possible cause for Solihull's latest success, especially with the new Range Rover, and reports about a truly unique and new approach to personnel management. To save bandwidth I'll just quote the most interesting parts. ************************ PRESS CLIPPING ************************* "Selecting an elite from all production lines for a new model wins the associates' vote if it means jobs for life." "Land Rover, the Midlands-based specialist vehicle company, put workers through psychometric testing and extensive interviews when choosing the team that is to build the new Range Rover, which is unveiled today. The vehicle, which has cost BP# 300 million in development and production equipment, is being assembled by 650 workers selected from Land Rover's other production lines. The workers, or associates as they are called, were only accepted for the project once they had been interviewed for their attitude and "compatibility", and passed psychometric tests. Such tests are designed to reveal personality traits via analysis of answers to questionnaires. The workers' performance records were also scrutinised. ... *** TEXT OMITTED *** ... people had been chosen according to their readiness to fit in with Land Rover's new culture. With the aid of outside consultants, the company and its selected workers set about devising a set of rules and standards for the new production line. Under the acronym "Conquer" - _C_ommitment, _O_ne team open minded, _N_o second best, _Q_uality image, _U_tmost honesty, _E_ffective communication, _R_espect - the team is supposed to be loyal, uncompromising in its drive for quality, have a sense of humour, consider others' opinions, lead by example, be friendly and share knowledge, accept there is no demarcation, and give praise and reward where due. There is also a ban on line-side smoking and eating... *** TEXT OMITTED *** ...Team managers lead the workforce in the assembly of the car. They were selected after a day of tests and trial presentations to managers, and are seen as key players in the drive to keep quality standards high on the shopfloor. They also had a say in the design of the cars's key components, ensuring that assembly is as easy as possible. Lineside manuals on how to put the car together are written by the teams. Productivity is up by a whopping 50 per cent, with the new Range Rover needing just half the time to build of its predecessor. " *** TEXT OMITTED *** ... ******************** END OF CLIPPING *************** How's that? Seems they've come a long way from the old British Leyland days when 2/3 of a workers time was spent with union meetings, strikes and tea breaks ... Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 12:45:35 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 10:39:17 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, rich@apricot.co.uk Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service Status: RO Many thanks for the info folks, but actually I was referring to the US one. Sorry for not making it clear! My mistake. Anyway, I'd love to go to the UK one as well!! John Brabyn California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 16:37:43 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 17:31:04 EST To: lro@team.net Subject: Source for Discovery service manuals? Content-Length: 415 Status: RO Has anybody either purchased or heard of basic service manuals for the Discovery, along the lines of Chiltons, Haynes or Bentley? It's for someone who wants to be able to do basic maintenance (oil change, etc) on their Disco, not take the whole thing apart with a nail clipper... If you do, could you let me know so I could pass the information along? An ISBN and publisher would be very helpful. TIA, Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 20:41:34 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@team.net Subject: Rover V8s: cold and confused Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 18:33:07 Status: RO Back in March, a asked if anyone had experience with the Rover 3.9 V8 petrol in cold weather. Basically I had a few experiences last year in my Defender where the engine got confused in cold weather. The battery/starter worked, it had fuel, the engine was turning over, there was exhaust coming out the pipe, but the starter kept going and the engine wouldn't turn over. It seemed like the system was doing the EFI-equivalent of flooding itself, perhaps its sensors were confused by the temperature. This happened once in the BC Rockies in -60 condition after not having started the vehicle for 2 days (fingers were freezing to the engine block checking things out). But 2 other times it did this in my driveway, in much warmer (probably between 0-32) conditions. In response to my earlier query, Russell Burns replied: I had the same problem with my Range Rover. I also noted that a lot of Rovers were in the shop for the same problem. I will admit changing plugs in -30 f and pouring hot water over the intake manifold is not what I expected from my rover. My isuzu always starts. I have heard that if you don't step on the gas you will avoid this problem. I have not had enough -30 degree weather to verify this. Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM updates). The local Rover dealer mechanics (and their calls to LR North America tech support) both claim ignorance to any kind of problem like this, so I was hoping to find out if anyone else had this problem, or if this was a fairly isolated phenomenon? And if anyone has any advice on ways to help prevent/resolve this kind of problem, I'd love to hear them. what about the Kenlow heater as seen in LRO magazine? what about the stock engine block heater (could I rig this up to work off a spare auto battery?)? etc. Anyway, other Range Rover, Discover, and Defender folks, if you have any advice, please let me know. And you lucky Series II/II folks, please don't laugh too much that I can't simply pull out the choke and have it WORK... Thanks, Lee ps: one of the mechanics at the local Rover dealer is interested in this mailing list, I'm trying to get him setup on the Internet so he can post participate. __ Lee Fisher, leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621, 74750.776@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 19:55:19 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: RALLY-L@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU, lro@team.net, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: lighting science (or lack there of) (long) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 20:51:28 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO broadcasts: >Subject: lighting science >Since I'm a confirmed quartz halogen junkie Admission is always the first step to recovery, you can seek help now when you're ready. :-) > I buy my bulbs from Imparts. They seem to offer the best prices on bulbs at > about $11 or so per high powered bulb 90/100 or 100/130. They also have high > powered 9004s Nice little blurb for 'em, they're generally a quality place, and given that most outlets flog bulbs for much more, they've not unreasonable, but but generally no fantastic deals either. >I've run 80/100s in H4 ... No problem with ... blinding people. At least that is what you think, 'cause obviously you're not attuned to what oncoming traffic experiences or you've screwed up your own aiming directions. [which were rather well written] > I'm currently (ahem) running 90/100s ... I've got a set of 100/130s in the > toolkit just waiting to be installed when the last of the 90/100s goes. > Proper aiming of the lamps will help keep you from blinding people, > but the fact is that in some circumstances, coming over the crest of a > hill for instance, Right, THE FACT IS YOU WILL always blind some oncoming traffic due to their physical location: Traffic below Traffic crossing your beams, such as on bends Traffic while passing Traffic on frontage or slip roads (parallel tothe offside) Occasionally Yourself Occasionally Traffic straight ahead That last two has everyone thinking 'this guy is nuts', well I am, but keep reading. Under weather conditions where there is fog, drizzle, or snow, this intensity (> 55W) of light will create a dazzle, that will affect the visibility of the oncoming driver, and it will also actually reduce the effective operating range which you'll get out of your lights. Additionally, anytime during rain, or on wet roads, your mega-watt head lamps will point where you set them, and then hit the water on the road and will be reflected ahead, and scattered a little, which will create a nasty blinding glare for oncoming drivers. [Though being in the Northeast, you probalby misjudge their flashing to be their dim bulbs bouncing over the pot-holes.] At this point, those of you who have some experience here, or have studied the chemistry of human optics, will realize that large amounts of light consume the available chemicals in the rods in your retina, and it takes about two minutes for you to fully regain your night vision, as those depleted chemicals are renewed, etc. Now those of us who have some sense, probably squint and look toward the offside pavement markings, but I think we can safely presume there are a set of drivers who are either clueless, or or shouldn't be out driving in the first place. Keeping in mind that their not capable of using their mind, and like that deer dead ahead they've fixated on your headlamps and trying to figure out what to do next. While your ton of steel is approacing thier tone of steel at something between 60 and 130 mph (depending...) > the concentrated light from the H4 will bother people > no matter whether you've got 55 watts or 130. Years ago, before the auto makers lobbied legislators to allow 'aero' headlamps, and the mass introduction of H9004 lighting systems, I would have agreed that 55W halogens bothered the general populace, most of whom were used to on coming traffic having tungsten filament bulbs which had long degraded to less than 75% of their luminosity (from new). Today, Halogen 9004s are the normal fare, and the difference between the standard 45w and a 55w is generally not perceived to be annoying. Under many advers conditions 85w bulbs are easily annoying. > Passing can also be a problem. Don't linger behind someone as you're > passing them. The "hot spot" of your beam pattern shines right on their > mirrors and into their eyes. Makes them rather cranky. > BTW, trucks can be particularly sensitive to this and may take > countermeasures you won't like. So be careful when passing. For having earlier stated that running high powered lights is 'no problem', you've certainly become aware (evidently by pissing off other road users) that they can be a problem. > I've been asked why I run such high-powered lights on my cars. Obviously cause you're a junkie > Fog Lamps > For best road coverage they should be >mounted below the bumper...for maximum protection they should be above the >bumper...you choose. Aiming methodology is similar to that for low beams. If you have a vehicle with unusually high bumpers, the mounting of fog lamps well above the ground will not serve you well, some places explicitly state upper limits for the height of fogs. > Other Auxiliary Lamps > If you're adding driving or pencil beams, you know what you're doing. Probably not, but then we're stuck with whatever these junkies decide to do. Now, flaming you along isn't a very nice thing to do, so I'll continue to explain what is 'in my humble opinion': To start with I'll state that I'm the last guy (ok, maybe not the very last guy - I've got a dime and I'm not going to call the FBI and tell 'em that I've invited uncle ho and chairman mao over for dinner), but the last guy who would tell you not to run higher power bulbs or auxillary lights on your vehicle. What I would suggest is that IF you get combination H4 bulbs, you ought to get dipped (low) beam and fog lamps bulbs that are of a reasonable strength - 55w or 60w. Run excess wattage in the high beams, and/or driving lamps. If you've got H4 based bulbs, look a little harder and you'll come across the maker of 55w/80w bulbs or even 55w/100w bulbs. This will allow you to present a civil amount of light to oncoming drivers - in any position or condition, and it will give you a reasonable strength low beam that won't cause a large amount of dazzle back to you when it is foggy or snowy. At the same time you run about as strong a high beam as is usefull in most hi/lo lamps. I personally can't understand why anyone would want to put in greater than 100w into a mass manufacturer high beam, 'cause those lamps are in some way compromised. Putting stronger bulbs in stock mustang 'aero' headlamps is in my opinion, putting extra energy in mostly useless places. I'd hold the same true for putting the higger wattage bulbs in standard european 7" or rectangular reflectors. The additional energy will get some additional distance, but it is still likely you'll have major dark spots for high speed driving. If you're out on the street, at lower speeds, odds are you're either on a twisty fun road, or in a populated area. In either case, greater distance straight ahead is of marginal use to you, and a hazard to oncoming, as they've havn't recovered from your dazzle when the reach the hazard you've just passed. Under these conditions fog lamps, which can serve duty as cornering lamps, and in populated areas will also assist in illuminaing to the sides, can assist in identifying short people, small animals, and other objects at or near the side of the road. At higher speeds, there is either on-coming traffic, so you'll be running dipped beams, or the world is your oyster, and you can run what you brung (within reason). The factory or converted high beams give the basic coverage, add driving lamps to fill in the voids left by the regulated lenses, and if you've already got the fogs mounted, they'll come in handy as you're flying down those unpaved parts setting up to practice the Sweedish flick... >The Law as I recall new jersey had on the books a limit to the number of forward facing lamps (six ?), so if you started out with 4 from the factory, you lose > Hope this helps. Please feel free to repost all or part of this Not a bad collection of thoughts, but you never did cover the science part of it, so I'll add that, from the last time this was thoroughly discussed (and yes, I've got the rest of the articles, memoirs of a foglight bone-head, as it were :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" - Start Included Article - Copyright 1994, 1989: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Article: 1291 of rec.autos.tech From: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Subject: Re: Re: Halogen H-Style Bulbs and Foglights Summary: (60x2 + 55x4 +100) watts / 11.8volts = 37.3amps < [and yes, when I wrote this, I confess that I did have: 2x 7" Marchal H4 conversions 55/60w, 2x 7" Marchal 900 55w Fogs, 2x 55w Hella 155 driving lamps, and 1x 100w 7" Marchal 900 Pencil Beam. < on the front bumper of my car '79 honda wagon... Keywords: Hella, Cibie, Marchal, who is PIAA anyway ? Message-ID: <524@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> Date: 29 Dec 89 06:54:45 GMT References: <8681.257ea2f9@ecs.umass.edu> <7750006@hpfcso.HP.COM> Organization: HoNdA'S 'r' uS, (aka HaLo'S 'r' uS, HeLlA'S 'r' uS) Lines: 127 In article <7750006@hpfcso.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Post) writes: >Regarding the recent discussion on foglights: > >So, how do they work? Does anyone have any idea how they work, technically. Hmmm, considering the discussion, you could be talking about halogen bulbs, fogs, or everything, so here goes: Halogen Bulbs: Design & Mounting differences The differences between the H1, H2, and H3 bulbs are basically mechanical in form. Each has a different orientation of the filament with respect to the base, and each base is different. Further references will describe the tip of the glass as the 'top' the metal base as 'bottom', the top-bottom axis is the 'TB axis'. The reference to the filament, refers to the coiled portion '_//////_'. In the H1, the filament is in line with the TB axis. (One application is in the Hella DE 2000 (Ellipsoidal Reflector) Fog Lamp. It enters from the side or bottom of the reflector.) The H2's filament is perpendicular to the TB axis. (?), while the base is basically two 'fins' which are at the bottom of the lamp. (Marchal uses this lamp in their 900 series Parabolic reflector Lamps, it sits in the center of the reflector.) The H3's filament is perpendicular to the TB axis. While the base is about the size of a quarter, and perpendicular to the TB axis. (This is used by Hella in both the 181's (rectangular), and in the Factory fogs for Mustangs. It enters the rectangular lamp from the bottem, in front of the reflector, while in the slim-profile (circular) mustang lamps, it enters from the center of the reflector.) The H4 is a dual filament bulb, used in 7" diameter 'conversion' lamps, and some rectangular lamps. The new 'aero' headlamps use a closely related '9004' bulb, which has a radically different base. The H4's top is masked (always ? sometimes?), and both filaments are roughly in-line with the TB axis. the filament closer to the top has a sheild, so as to illuminate only half the reflector, and thus provide the 'low' beam. the second filament is located below the first, and has no sheilds. (This enters from the center of the reflector.) Actual positions of the bulb's entry in the lamp housing (center, bottem, side) vary with manufacter, and reflector design, for the H1, H2, and H3 lamps. Halogen Lamps: Basic Theory For operating prinicple of QH lamps I'll refer to "Automotive Electrical Handbook", (Jim Horner, HP Books). As for the operating principles of the Halogen (Quartz-Halogen) based bulbs, the basic tenants are that (1) the quartz housing allows higher temperature operation than glass housing, as well as providing optical clarity, and a minimal thermal expansion. (2) the 'halogen cycle'. tungsten vapor given off by the filament is redeposited back onto the filament, extending its life significantly. this also pratically eliminates bulb blackening. (3) in the halogen atmosphere, the tungsten filament can operate at a much higher temperature, producing 'whiter' light. (you know, colour temperature and all that) Automotive Lamp Applications: Fog (rain, snow) will reflect light, thus, any light which rises from the lamp, will be reflected back into the drivers eyes. Thus the designer of a fog lamp want so aim the light forward and down. Typically a good fog lamp will have a vertical dispersion of about 8-12 degrees down from the horizontal. The horizontal dispersion will be about 110 degrees. This puts light on the road in front of the vehicle, and to the sides, but puts no light up to reflect back into the drivers eyes. The fog lamp housing will incorporate a sheild to prevent light from leaving the bulb and then reflecting up. Fog lamps have a relatively short throw, the best being under 700 feet (Marchal 900 series, Hella Rallye 2000), typically the throw is about 500 feet. Fogs are also referred to as 'cornering' lamps in some circles, because of the very wide pattern, allows one to get a good view of where the road is going in corners. Amber lenses or reflectors will diminish output slightly, while providing better visibility in foggy and snowy conditions. Fogs can annoy oncoming traffic when they would normally be in your lowbeams, AND when the oncoming lane is lower in elevation than your lane, even if it is across the median. Low beams vary slightly with the design, especially the new Ellipsoidal Reflector designs which have shown up on the BMW's and in the latest Nissan Z-cars. Basically, a european dipped beam (low) will level to the left of the lamp axis, and rise slightly to the right (for left hand drive). This pattern provides for road illumination ahead, and rises to show more of the edge of the road on the right. The vertical adjustment of dipped beams is from 0 to 4 degrees below the horizontal, they don't point up in the air. The dipped beam has a short throw, similar to fogs, though is much narrower horizontally. High (or Main) beams generally are designed to throw light further than the low beams, and spreading the light up and down from the horizontal axis. Driving lamps will usually have a narrower beam which projects further than the high beams, and should be wired to shut off when the main beams are dipped (on low). Pencil beams are interesting but of limited utility under normal circumstances. Their extremely narrow beam has a very far throw, and as such is of limited utility, unless you like illuminating street signs two miles away, or run an interrogating service. Some of the 'off-road' lamps are of different designs, using a 'PAR' (Parabolic reflector) lamp which is a sealed beam. These are offered in many different styles (flood, short throw, long throw, spot lamp), and are usually shock mounted in cases. They are designed for a different environment (namely, no oncoming traffic), and thus are quite rude on the road, while being fine for driving through the back country and getting a good handle on the trees and bushes coming at you. Also, the PAR lamps are much more costly to replace than the replacable H1/2/3 bulb, but probably less costly than replacing the lens/reflector unit which houses the H1/2/3 bulb. next ! I plead insomnia. -------- "tcp-ip doesn't care whether it's twisted pair or baling wire. :-) " -- quote attributed to Kent England, BU - End Included Article - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 21:05:25 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: leefi@microsoft.com Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 18:59:51 PDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com>; from "leefi@microsoft.com" at Oct 5, 94 6:33 pm Status: RO jjj> > Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will > help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM > updates). > Can you forward me more info on the Prom updates. Price? How many Roms it takes to run a Rover.? Do you notice any difference? Are these the 20MPG version. We are also supposed to have another cold winter, and if this would help, it sure would be easier than drying plugs out at -30 Russ Off to Va. for the Rover Rally From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:17:30 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:13:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Source for Discovery service manuals? To: llevitt@idcresearch.com Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9409057814.AA781403464@ccmailout.idcresearch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Try CARTECH at 1-800=551-4754. They might just have what you want. I know they have the other Land Rover Books. Dave VE4PN. PS I am hoping to have their catalogue in a few days. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:40:34 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:22:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: leefi@microsoft.com Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well I have not owned a modern Land Rover, mine have all been the Ser IIA and II types, but I do drive modern 4x4 with fuel injection and I often drive in Northern Canada where it gets to -40 etc. The trick is don't under any circumstances touch the gas pedal or you will be there a long time. For very cold weather you really need a battery blanket since most batteries are toast after about -20 when they are less than efficient. Lots of people up here use recirculating type heaters. They are easy to install and they have the added advantage of keeping the internal heater core warm as well, so when you start up you get warm air immediately. The types we use look like a soup tin with a top and bottom pipe connection. They have an element inside, and because of convection, they move liquid through the block and rad all night long. This keeps the fuel injection system warm as well , not just the oil like a pan or dip stick heater does. There are some very small models that fit right inside the large rad hose, so you don't need much space. When I say inside, I don't mean you push it up the hose, I mean you cut the hose and insert it between the cut pieces, but it is only about two inches deep so you don't add much to the length. At work, we shut the block heater plugs off for the weekend, and we turn them back on Monday morning at about 4 A.M. At -40, the vehicle is ready by 8 A.M. to be started and driven. Our biggest problem is frozen transmissions not engines that won't start. By the way, because water at -40 is a real drag, we use these magnetic brick type heaters for spot heating. On the aluminum of course you just have to sit it there, but for heating the pan, a frozen transmission or a dif, they work well. I notice the long haul truckers here use a thing called a "Tiger Torch" It is a pipe with a tap on it that has a hose with a fitting for a large Propane tank. They blast the engine and trans and diffs with it till things get warm and then off they go. Lots of them up north where I go, and they use them for just about any spot heating problem. May not be great on our leaky LRs however :-). By the way for those who like cold, my wife's cousin phoned from Alberta. They had 50 CM of snow in Waterton with 5 foot drifts and the road to Pincher Creek was blocked. 50 CM is about 20" I think. Good Land Roving eh :-) Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:51:24 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Universal joints Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 20:48:52 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO While I was getting ready to go to the Bay State Rover Club Rally, I discovered that one of the universals on my front propeller shaft was shot. Of course I discovered this the day before I intended to leave. I went down to the local NAPA autoparts and found an identical spider for the universal. The part was made by Spicer and the part number is 5-153X. The cost was about $10. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 08:40:20 1994 Date: 06 Oct 94 09:31:44 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused Status: RO David John Place is right in pointing out > ... don't under any circumstances touch the gas pedal Apparently on 'cold start boot' the EFi computer enters a fairly simple trial-and-error loop, the likes of Procedure ColdStart while not (ignition) do begin waitfor(6 x starter_revolutions); if (motor_running) then ignition :=true else inc(fuel_air_ratio); end; End; (This is not the _real_ program, but as I would imagine it to be!!) It seems the program does no timeout-checking and, at this point, doesn't evaluate air flow or trottle opening, but assumes these to be fixed (default) parameters. Now if you begin pumping the gas pedal you're changing external parameters the program isn't aware of, it misses the crucial 'firing point' where the fuel-air chemical is right, and enters into an endless-loop, injecting fuel, and more fuel, and yet more fuel, until the cylinders are drowned... Another thing, I recall reading somewhere in the V8 workshop manual that the computer will perform erroneously if effective voltage drops below a certain level (I think it was 5 volts?) for any length of time. Now if you take a very cold battery, further drained by turning over a cold sticky engine (I assume you would be wise enough to disengage the clutch when cranking over at low temps??) then there might come a point where the computer looses its transient memory due to low voltage. Apparently the computer doesn't have a built-in backup battery either. BTW, I've heard of freaks doing 'chip tuning' to efi systems. They pull out the original ROMS, transfer the program to EPROMS, debug and improve the software, and stick the reprogrammed EPROMS back in place of the old chips. Does anyone have more information on this? Stefan <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:51:25 1994 To: lro@team.net Cc: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Rover V8s: EPROMS In-Reply-To: Your message of "06 Oct 1994 09:31:44 EDT." <941006133143_100043.2400_BHJ59-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 07:44:43 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Stephan asks, BTW, I've heard of freaks doing 'chip tuning' to efi systems. They pull out the original ROMS, transfer the program to EPROMS, debug and improve the software, and stick the reprogrammed EPROMS back in place of the old chips. Does anyone have more information on this? > > Well I don't know that you would call us freaks, just everyday ordinary folk out for MORE POWER! The EPROM replacement business is very large here in the US, where we Americans have a seemingly insatiable thirst for more horsepower. I tried one of these little babies on my 93 BMW 325is, made by DINAN Engineering. It claimed an boost of 18 percent in the horsepower deparment, going from 189 to 223, and it raised my mileage from 22.5 to 26. The chip cost almost $600 US, and if you have an automatic, I didn't, you had to buy two chips, one for the engine, and the second for the trans. There are lots of ads in the US magazines offering chip upgrades for various makes and models. The only one I've seen for our Solihull pride and joys is made by an outfit called ROVERCRAFT. They advertise in LRO as a chip upgrade sold in combination with an exhaust refit to boost horsepower to 190 on the 3.9L V8. Not very impressive considering it started at 182. That in combination with the cost of L458.25 makes a little discouraging. Of couse you CAN spend more to get more. L783.34 get you a new camshaft and associated bits to give you 225 BHP. And if you're really an enthusiast ( OK, a FREAK), L1774.45 nets you another 10 HP to 235 BHP buy adding a "complete performance" exhaust system to the above mods. I'm not one to scoff, but L1000 seems a bit steep for an exhaust system. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:07:10 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:03:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@team.net From: Dave Subject: LRovers in Canada? Status: RO Dear all, There is a possibility that I may be moving from the UK to Canada (Toronto), which means I will have to sell my 1980 Series III SWB. Does anyone know if LRovers are available in Canada? I suppose ideally I'd like to get hold of a second hand 90 Turbo Diesel (Yup, I wanna move up in the world!) So if anyone has any info on availability, pricing etc, I'd be really greatful! Cheers for now, Dave From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:10:46 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 08:05:45 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. Status: RO >In message <199410041629.MAA08508@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" > > >Hope you get it fixed OK. >> >> Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest >> on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the >> foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? >> I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a >> couple of weeks. >> >> Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu >> King George, Va. >> '66' IIA 88 RHD >> > > > >Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a > half. >I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more >money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. > The >price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow > mw >to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can > get >a before photo of the Green Rover. > > > > >TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world >twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards >LINK: TWAKEMAN >408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 If you're coming out this way, you should stop by Scotty's anyhoo. Mine will probably be there (at least one of them), and who knows how many others. Plus, Scotty's a great guy. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:16:40 1994 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 08:07:13 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, lro-request@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, Offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: GOT MY '94 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY!!! Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: GOT MY '94 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! Ahem... um... "Oh, by the way... I received my new Land Rover Discovery last night." Absolutely incredible vehicle!!! I had it in the dirt within 2 hours of picking it up, I... well... I "HAD" to try it out! ;) Sigh... how on earth am I EVER going to get any work done today??? Well, there's always Tomorrow. ;) Administrators: Please update my Bio: Vehicle: '94 Land Rover - Discovery Automatic Leather seats Dual Air conditioning Dual sun roofs Jump seats (seats 7) Rino bars Rear lens guards Tinted windows Pin stripes (This should last long!!! ...RIGHT!!!) Black Wish list: Winch Off road lights Expedition rack Rear door latter (for rack) Skid plates (Anyone know any sources?) Nerf bars CD stacker Deep water snorkle air intake (Anyone know any sources?) #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:18:22 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) (maloney) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:11:50 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "maloney" at Oct 03, 94 9:33 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Steven asks: > > >> > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > encouraged). > >> Bill replies: > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If > I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a > flash. :-) Nigel's left parking light flashes. Bang hard on the wing and it's on for good (it does turn off when you shut down the lights). Perhaps he's just a little ahead of his time. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:35:43 1994 From: Tom Luteran Subject: Rover/HP diagnostics system.. To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:22:58 EDT Cc: toml@hpwadck.wal.hp.com Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Thought you all might be interested in this piece which appeared in HP's Measure company magazine. Enjoy! Tom -- (This is not to be reproduced without permission from the author, Tom Ulrich, Tom_Ulrich@hp6600.desk.hp.com) ....................................................................... Making History OXFORD, England -- If history is written by its survivors, the men and women of Rover Group have a compelling story to tell. Ninety years in the making, Rover evolved from a nineteenth century West Midlands bicycle manufacturer to a worldwide supplier of twenty-first century automobiles and trucks. Provincial from the start, Rover adapted to the global marketplace through partnerships with British Leyland (1968), British Aero- space (1988), Honda (1990) and BMW. Driven to compete internationally, Rover recast much of its product line before BMW purchased the lone British automaker in 1994. Since 1990, Rover Group introduced series 200 and 400 coupes, redesigned series 600 and 800 sedans, launched Land Rover Discovery and rolled the first MG RV8 off an Oxford production line. Rover emerged from an age of uncertainty in top form. Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any- thing like an MG. Its grey sheet-metal chassis contains a 486 microprocessor, a custom instrument board, a LAN card, a CD-ROM reader and a 120 MB hard disk drive. This rugged analytical computer connects to a DeskJet printer and supports a flat-panel display. TestBook, a new generation of precision instrument, grew out of a partnership between Rover Group and the Integrated Systems Division of HP. "We were looking for a company that had both computer and test and measurement expertise," says Project Director David Lawrance Hallgarth. "We were looking for a tool," he adds, "that combined diagnostic capabilities with vehicle information to assist a technician making a repair." "Rover did not want an off-the-shelf solution," explains John Morris, ISD's project manager. "So we worked with them closely to deliver a product that met their specific needs." Rover and ISD engineers equipped TestBook with a vehicle communication interface, digital instruments, expansion slots, battery pack and a touch screen display. Before this electronic toolbox arrived at Rover dealerships across the globe, service technicians struggled to maintain all the computer technology that design engineers placed in late-model automobiles and trucks. Diagnosing hard-to-find electrical faults, such as a flawed headlamp assembly or an intermittant sensor, are among the greatest challenges facing service departments in the 1990s. Industrywide, they account for 20 percent of a dealership's repair log and are the major reason for repeat repairs. "Traditionally, a technician diagnoses electrical faults by swapping parts," David Lawrance Hallgarth explains. TestBook combines computer-driven service tools and diagnostic strategies with on-line service information to guide a technician to the source of a problem and suggest a repair. It contains a digital voltmeter (volts), ohmmeter (ohms) and ammeter (amps) for evaluating an individual component or a complete electrical system. These on-line tools find answers to complex electrical problems that technicians with hand-held tools often miss. With touch screen technology and a direct link to the engine-control computer, technicians use TestBook to identify and repair faults that appear in the base engine and electrical systems such as anti-lock brakes, gear box, lamps and power windows. If the headlamp circuit fails, the technician need not spend two or three hours pulling connectors apart, swapping parts and perhaps, creating new problems. He can follow the prompts given by TestBook, perform the necessary tests with its electronic tools and fix the problem; tasks that should take him about ten minutes to complete. TestBook tracks the fault to a single wire or connector and specifies the procedure for making the repair. The technician can review the latest service information, product manuals and technical data using a CD-ROM based, technical information system. Once a technician completes the repair, TestBook prompts him for the cause of the failure. TestBook records this information and transmits it back to the factory so that Rover engineers can design even more reliable automobiles and trucks. For elusive problems that occur on the road, a technician uses a customer flight recorder (CFR) that he plugs into the vehicle's data-communication link and sends home with the customer. When trouble occurs, the driver presses the button and the flight recorder gathers diagnostic information. After the recorder captures the data three times, the customer returns to the dealership where the technician uploads the information to TestBook and completes the diagnosis. TestBook reduces the time it takes a technician to find an electrical or engine management fault