From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 90 rear tailgate From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:01:18 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I have been around a number of North American spec 90's now. One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. Has anyone else noticed this ? How about all you owners of 90's on the net, what is your reaction? Regards Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:57:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:06:32 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO HARD TOP FOR NORTH AMERCIAN 90'S Land Rover are currently developing a hard top for the North American 90. It will be made of two sided gel coated GRP in a low pressure molding process. It will be made of four pieces along the lines of a Series type hard top. there will be a roof section, including a side skylight on the sides. The side panels join the roof panel exactly half way up the roll over cage, so the side and roof panels have have half the cut out for the cage. The side panels have a full lenght big window in it, theredoes not appear any opening mechanism, just a fixed window. The side pices appear to wrap around at the rear , just like the series panels and have a small window either side of the tailgate. the rear door upper piece is the last panel. According to the pictures i have and the description it is a horizontally hinged piece that is hinged to the roof section and lifts up after the tailgate has been swung away. To me this was pretty predictable for a number of reasons. The North Amercian Standard (NAS as Land Rover call it) 90 has had problem in getting of the lot. To potential buyers the idea of an insecure vehcile is not going over well, in addition the road noise of the soft top is a constant feature of just about test review of the vehcile. There are a number of refinements to be done but this is basically the final version. The colour of the hard top will be similar to that of the current soft top, a kind of graphite grey black. It will retail for about $3000 and will be available in the fourth quarter LR say. All these details are subject to fine tuning and change of course. I understand from another sources that the next model year of 90's might have a hard top fitted as standard and that it will be aluminum and will be painted the same colour as the rest of the vehcile. BTW the GRP version is designed to fit with all of the roll cage structure intact. Regards Robin Craig Ottawa , Ontario, Canada. -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:43 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: toy 90 for sale, offers pls From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 17:47:17 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO FOR SALE In original box, torn one corner though, Briatins 90 British Telecom livery, yellow. Has not been played with so is in very best shape otherwise. Interested in swapping for the following $32 usd including sufrace shipping within North America OR what have you in the way of original old sales brochures and material such as decals etc manuals / books. Particularly looking for Shpperds desert crossing in 101's book. Will accept offers until midnight 7 october. Will close and decide then. Please reply directly to me Regards Robin Craig Ottawa, Ontario, Canada -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:55:37 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: possible sale of 127 in Canada From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sat, 01 Oct 94 20:27:51 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO There is a good possibility that a Land Rover 127 will come up for sale soon. here are the details at present. Vehicle is currently road registered in Canada. Has 3.5 V8 engine, as standard. originally was a military ambulance but was damaged and has now been fitted with a flat rear body and has kept the original truck cab. Is currently in civilian hands. Any one who wishes to be informed of anymore details on this vehicle should reply directly to me. I am not the seller but have just heard about the vehicle through a friend. No idea on price as yet, not even a ball park figure. regds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 02:05:43 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Black Nineties To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:10:35 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 718 Status: RO Somebody mentioned black Nineties a few days ago. So much for only royalty having them! I just visited the Denver dealer. They received the first two two weeks ago, and another three this week. One sold already. They are part of a limited edition of 100 in the US. The 5 in Denver are the most sent to a single dealer. Leather seats appear to be the only distinctive item, and it jacks up the price another $1000. The Denver dealer also mentioned they will have hardtops for the Nineties in December (just about when new owners will be seeing the need for them!) T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 01:23:09 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: LR current cite To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 2 Oct 1994 00:16:50 -0600 (MDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 512 Status: RO Here's the latest: Whale, Gregory R. Land Rover Defender 90 : 7,000 miles with a real four wheeler [long term test] FOUR WHEELER Vol. 31, no. 10 (Oct. 1994) p. 40-46 This is part of a continuing long term report on the vehicle that FOUR WHEELER named "Four Wheeler of the Year" in March 1994. This test vehicle has been places that no other could make. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 20:04:19 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 02:00:24 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: TV rover To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hi all. Spotted another landie on tv tonight. A real one this time. I was watching a report on Eigil Knuth's 90'th birthday on natl tv. Knuth is a scientist and archeologist (sp?) and he has lived most of his life in the northernmost part of Greenland. He was to be driven to the cabin for the celebration. The tele company working in these parts provided the vehicle. It was a SII Land-Rover in absolutely mint condition. Not a scratch in the paint or a dent in the body. Even the interior looked brand new. The climate is extremely dry so rust and rot has some difficulties having a feast on cars and machines. There was also some footage from Station Nord and a guy called Henning was interviewed. Hey - i used to speak on the radio with him a while ago. And play chess. Small world ain't it. Later +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 06:20:52 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: do you live near Mickey's place? From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 20:18:20 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within 20 minutes drive? Rgds Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 20:27:23 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 21:24:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO 10. You buy Rover models at car boot sales. 9. You buy Witworth tools at car boot sales. 8. You run out and join the AA. 7. Your insurance agent asks you if you've got the letter/s reversed. 6. You're applying for petrol credit cards. 5. You keep on hearing your self say: "No, its the other L-reg". 4. Your friends are buying stock in the petrol company. 3. The vehicle has a history. 2. The vehicle comes with a boot full of spares & shop manual. 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and swap all the metric spanners for English ones. --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:06:05 1994 From: Malcolm956@aol.com Sender: "Malcolm956" To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 02 Oct 94 21:59:27 EDT Subject: A) Newport & B) dwell Status: RO Part A) > Ladies, gentleman, members of the jury: > Please allow me to plead my case. I am not sure who is on the jury, but, if I am included, I have been thoughtful in my deliberations and have not read any tabloid accounts of your adventures. Where does the balance point lie: Brooke Shields or a three weight? Either is expensive, but three weights come a great deal closer to my budget (and interest), so I think that I will go that way. A 3 will probably be next in my 5, 7 and 10 (salt) collection. As to the testimony, and I quote, "Lemme tell ya folks, Nige, the li'l woman and I were *stylin'*." Amen!!! Further, I suggest that if any "li'l woman" is willing to put up with what you and Nigel have undoubtedly put her through, she might be well worth hanging on to. I courted my wife of more than thirty years in a TD which had Lucas wipers and no heater, Smiths or otherwise. In any event, as to the pleading of your case, I award you a NINE POINT NINE. I would of done a TEN except that somewhere, sometime there MAY be a better story. Part B: The mundane. Can anyone give me point gap in terms of degrees dwell for a '65 SWB IIa? A later model distributor has been installed, with a square-ish distributor cap rather than the earlier round one, if that makes any difference. Thanx: Malcolm From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 2 21:33:16 1994 Date: Sun, 2 Oct 94 22:29:22 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Andrew Steele From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Re: Sweepstakes w/ Defender 90 Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Did anyone ever get the rules to this [defender] sweepstakes? I sent in a SASE several weeks back and received no reply. I'd really like to enter! -jory p.s. Recently, I am having a problem where I have an oil pressure drop ("seen" via dummy light) when I come to a stop (or whenever there is a drop to idle-speed). However, it only happens after the car is well warmed up. When the light comes on, continuously applying just a little bit of gas will turn it off again (you may recall that I am temporarily without an oil pressure gauge, after mine self-destructed last month, spraying oil all over my engine compartment, etc). It seems like this problem would likely be related to temprature-dependent changes in the oil viscosity, but I am unsure exactly what is occurring... or if I should worry about it. I am running synthetic oil in the engine. One the one hand, I think the pressure is just a tad low for the sensor, and I shouldn't really be concerned. The I think of the true import of the green dummy light, and all the money involved, and I start to get nervous... Any suggestions? >Hello all, >I just opened my October edition of OUTSIDE magazine and on page 171 found the >River Wild Sweepstakes. Mindyou, I never bother to waste the $0.29 to enter >these damn thing; but in this case.... > >"If you think you can handle a vacation on The Rive Wild, then take one" >Universal Studios. The River Wild Sweepstakes = grand prize: one 1994 Land >Rover Deender 90 in bright double AA yellow plus a 5 day Grand Canyon >whitewater rafting trip for two. Sweepstakes open to residents of U.S. 18 yrs >or older. > >For a copy of official rules, send self-addressed stamped envelope to "The >River Wild" Rules, P.O. Box 56436, Sherman Oaks CA 91413 > >Mail entries to PO BOx 6044, Sherman Oakes, CA 91413. > >{It does'nt say if a blank card can be sent in rather than the card} > >Drawing on 11/15/94. This seems to be a promotion for Hign Seas Adventure on >the Discovery Channel, Sept 23-25 beginning at 8 p.m. >{I don't have cable so someone will have to post if they have any Rovers on >the show} > >Standard disclaimer -- I don't have any relation to the above; except it's >contained in my copy of the magizine etc.... > >In case I don't win, I'm still looking to find a Diesel ?. If you run across >one, please let me know. > >Andrew/ Dayton Ohio >87 RR and one mixed Grey Hound/Great Dane. From thelist@griffin.itc.gu.edu.au Sun Oct 2 23:36:11 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 14:37:42 +1000 Reply-To: thelist@gu.edu.au Sender: thelist@gu.edu.au Precedence: bulk From: Mark Hessling To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Bug in THE 2.0 beta with TABSIN Status: RO In reply to Regis BOSSUT: >I just installed THE 2.0 Beta on a HP-UX platform. I got a lot of warnings at >compile time, but THE runs fine, except that in my profile file, the following >line hangs it : 'set tabsin on 8' so I had to comment it out. The problem with TABSIN ON and several other profile commands has been corrected although they are not yet available :-( I hope to get another beta available soon. The next beta will (hopefully) also include a Microsoft Windows version. This port is being done by Ken Robinette. I am also working on an X-Windows port as well. I'm not sure when it will be ready for beta-testing. >I must admit that THE 2.0 added features are making it really close to XEDIT. >I just regret the change in the up-down key changes (CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB is >not longer valid...) >Any chance to get back to the previous mode ?... The functionality of CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB is still in THE 2.0. What the last arguments of CMDARROWS indicated the behaviour of the left/right/up/down arrows. The behaviour of these keys can now be controlled individually using the CURSOR [SCREEN] LEFT|RIGHT|UP|DOWN command. By default, CURL is defined as CURSOR LEFT, CURR is defined as CURSOR RIGHT, etc To get the behaviour of CMDARROWS TAB TAB TAB, define CURL CURSOR SCREEN LEFT, define CURR CURSOR SCREEN RIGHT, etc. The next beta will also have another option for CURSOR LEFT and CURSOR RIGHT, which will enable the default KEDIT behaviour of the left and right arrow keys. >By the way, I didn't find the ilp client on gu.edu.au. Where is it hidden ? Sorry for my ignorance, but what is the "ilp client" ? Cheers, Mark. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mark Hessling Email: M.Hessling@gu.edu.au DBA,ITS Phone: +617 875 7691 Griffith University Fax: +617 875 5314 Nathan, Brisbane ***** PDCurses Maintainer ***** QLD 4111 *** Author of THE and GUROO *** Australia ======= Member of RexxLA ====== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 06:20:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 12:14:57 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410030124.VAA08958@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 2, 94 9:24 pm Status: RO > > > 10. You buy Rover models at car boot sales. > > 9. You buy Witworth tools at car boot sales. > > 8. You run out and join the AA. > > 7. Your insurance agent asks you if you've got the letter/s reversed. > > 6. You're applying for petrol credit cards. > > 5. You keep on hearing your self say: "No, its the other L-reg". > > 4. Your friends are buying stock in the petrol company. > > 3. The vehicle has a history. > > 2. The vehicle comes with a boot full of spares & shop manual. > > 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and > swap all the metric spanners for English ones. > > --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com > > 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase > |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." > 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" > Bill, Oooooh....I like it:-)Dixon,that's just *got* to go in the FAQ. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:13:59 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:06:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Defender 90 Soft Top Problems To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven asks: >> Maybe I'm in a state of blissful ignorance but what problems are there with the top? And what does this "proper replacement" consist of? >> I ran into Chris Laws of Badger Coachworks at the Baystate meet this past weekend. He pointed out some of the problems of the 90 top. They include thin gauge windows, crooked/poor stiching, poor fit (= flapping + wind noise) difficult to adjust straps. He redoes the stitching in some areas, replaces the windows with heavier zip in windows, replaces all the zippers (originals are poor quality), adjusts the fit, and uses velcro straps. You can call him at 508-394-2680. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:20:36 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:16:25 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: US Defender 110 Dealer Costs To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven writes: >> They did. LR imported 500 Defender 110's during '93 at around $41,000 apiece. I've seen two (or maybe the same one twice) in the L.A. area. >> In a 1992 copy of a book by Simon and Schuster detailing car retail and dealer costs, they listed the base price of the 1993 Defender 110 at $39,900 and the dealer cost at $34,400. The winch package retailed at $1900 and dealer cost was $1520. If anyone is interested. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:41:17 1994 To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: 90 rear tailgate In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Oct 1994 17:01:18 CDT." Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 05:38:14 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Robin asks, I have been around a number of North American spec 90's now. One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. Has anyone else noticed this ? How about all you owners of 90's on the net, what is your reaction? ANSWER: Yes now that you mention it, I have noticed the tailgate to be a bit sloppy when closing. Once closed however, it seems to be nice and tight. The weight of that big tire/wheel combination must be close to 50-60 pounds, get it swinging too fast closing the gate and there is considerable momentum there. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:46:25 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 08:44:09 -0400 To: lro@stratus.com From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) Subject: Any Early (April/May) US Disco Owners? Status: RO Gentle Readers: Warning: Don't bother with this unless you're really bored. It's incredibly trivial. Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I mean purchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash (three times) when you lock the vehicle? Why, you might ask, do I care? Well, I recently purchased exactly such a beast (used, of course), and mine don't. I mentioned it at my last oil change, and, compulsive as he is, the service manager wanted to keep the car and fix it. "Okay" I said. After two days of struggling with it, they couldn't figure out what was wrong. The service manager and I started wondering if, since mine was an early vehicle, they were even supposed to work that way. Maybe only later shipments had the flashing lights. While they're researching it on their end, I thought I'd check with the net. If pressed hard, I can actually think of one semi-practical advantage of this feature. According to the owners manual at least, if, when you (think you) lock the car, one of the doors isn't closed, the parking lights won't flash, thus alerting you to the unsecured vehicle. BTW, I can speak quite well of (at least this particular) Land Rover service department. Without any request from me, they supplied a rental car, and they actually were going to keep the Disco longer (and me in the Geo Prizm, yuck) I guess until they resolved the issue. I realize the triviality of this, but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies encouraged). Please send any serious replies via email since I doubt there's general interest in this topic. Thanks in advance. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 07:54:47 1994 To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Hard Top for NAS 90 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 01 Oct 1994 17:06:32 CDT." Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 05:47:19 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Robin says, The colour of the hard top will be similar to that of the current soft top, a kind of graphite grey black. It will retail for about $3000 and will be available in the fourth quarter LR say. ANSWER: The part number was released last Thursday, my hard top is SUPPOSED to be here in 3 weeks, costing $2000. Got my fingers crossed as it's already down to 38-F in the mornings, a bit chilly/breezy in a car with no top. Great fun once in a while but not for every day driving. No flames about cold winters from the Canucks, we know you guys are supermen, taking baths in frozen lakes etc. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 90 Range Rover Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 08:41:54 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 09:33:39 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Flashing Rover Things To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Steven asks: >> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies encouraged). >> When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a flash. :-) Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 09:32:14 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 15:28:03 +0100 From: mfarrall@well.ox.ac.uk (Martin Farrall) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Flashing Disco lights Cc: sat@eng.tridom.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 446 Status: RO Our Disco TDi was built in the UK in July 1993. When you activate the central locking/immobilizer with one remote keyfob the lights flash once, with the other they flash three times. I'm certain both keyfobs used to flash thrice so they can clearly forget what to do :-) We've not bothered the dealer with this to date. We have heard stories that changing the batteries on these fobs can also prove both costly and tedious. Martin Farrall From ccray Mon Oct 3 09:57:24 1994 Subject: Mr. Personality To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 09:57:24 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2713 Status: RO I want to come out right up front and thank Richard Jones (richardj@apricot.co.uk) for the excellent "New RR" series. His fingers must surely be sore from all that typing. And you ask, where is this leading? I went to two parties this weekend. These are my wife's invitations and I accompany her. Jan (that's the wife) calls me "Mr. Personality" at parties. It is probably true. While she "works the room", I stake out a corner of the bar and am content at talking to one or two people (or maybe none at all). And over the years, I learned not to talk the religion/politics/sex stuff `cause that can get you into troubled, heated conversations. In mixed company, I am not allowed to bring up the "land rover" topic unless someone asks me first. So, over time, I have learned to back into the subject with phrases like "...what kind of car do you drive" or "...I worked on my car..." in response to a "...what did you do today..." question. And I can always honestly say "...he/she brought the subject up..." when reprimanded. Well this weekend, I had them eating out of my hand. At both parties we were discussing the the subject of the "New RR" and I had the facts. Most people were not aware of the "New RR" so it is amazing that we managed to get onto that topic. When I pointed out the new features, functions and benefits that I had gleaned from Richard's LRO posting, the people were impressed. At one point, there were 6 people gathered around and being entertained by "Mr. Personality". And even Jan was impressed when one of the "important people" said to her "...Ray sure knows his Range Rovers -- I always wanted to buy one of those..." On Sunday morning, at breakfast, I was still going strong. It was like a scene from a movie: "...the New RR has retained the black e-pillar..." says I. "...I want to try the avacodo recipe in this months cooking lite..." says she. "...the New RR has retained the castel bonnet..." I replied. "...we are going to eat diet meals this week..." she responded. Now, I heard every word she said, but I somehow don't think my thoughts were transferred. Anyway, I am going to print out the "New RR" series and take it home for Jan to read. And I will review them, also, for there is another party Wednesday nite... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:14:56 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: do you live near Mickey's place? To: Robin Craig Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01FLTc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well, almost...My parents live in Orlando and I live in Tampa...Can I be of service to you? reply e-mail:swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Steve On Sun, 2 Oct 1994, Robin Craig wrote: > Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within > 20 minutes drive? > > Rgds > > Robin Craig > > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:14:56 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 1994 11:04:05 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Re: do you live near Mickey's place? To: Robin Craig Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <01FLTc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well, almost...My parents live in Orlando and I live in Tampa...Can I be of service to you? reply e-mail:swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Steve On Sun, 2 Oct 1994, Robin Craig wrote: > Does anyone out there live real close to Disney in Florida? Like within > 20 minutes drive? > > Rgds > > Robin Craig > > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:30:48 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 11:10:31 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Spent Saturday at the Mid-Atlantic site putting the finishing touches on several things. The mud bog, while not full becaouse of the dry weather (2 months) is still belly-deep on a big dog. The climb/turn out of the pit should be a real challenge once properly wet down. Completed and tested the teeter-totter just after dark. Mike has done an exceptional job...it's bloody strong...could be used for a portable bridge. It's also well off the ground and at the crest of a hill...*scary*. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 10:30:48 1994 Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 11:10:31 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Spent Saturday at the Mid-Atlantic site putting the finishing touches on several things. The mud bog, while not full becaouse of the dry weather (2 months) is still belly-deep on a big dog. The climb/turn out of the pit should be a real challenge once properly wet down. Completed and tested the teeter-totter just after dark. Mike has done an exceptional job...it's bloody strong...could be used for a portable bridge. It's also well off the ground and at the crest of a hill...*scary*. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 11:27:24 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Defender 90 Sales in Eastern US Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Mon, 03 Oct 1994 09:22:47 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I was talking to a person who sells Defender 90s in Massachusetts and he claimed to sell between 6 and 10 Defender 90s a month. Just for another data point.... -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 11:44:54 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 09:39:45 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO In message writes: > HARD TOP FOR NORTH AMERCIAN 90'S SO why can't a defender 90 owner just import a standard Defender 90 hard top from the UK (maybe a nice used one), remove the US spec roll bar & put the hard top on their US spec 90? They could get it sooner & maybe save some $$$. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 16:23:32 1994 Date: Mon, 3 Oct 94 11:23:55 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@Team.Net Subject: New RR Status: RO I would like to second the votes of thanks to Richard Jones for providing all the info about the new RR. At this point my interest is mainly academic, but it's great fun imagining. One thing I was a bit disappointed about in all the specs was that it's pretty hard to find any evidence that Land Rover devoted any attention to improving off-road performance (granted that it was already pretty stupendous). On the contrary, we see that the departure angle and breakover angle are worse than the old RR, and the roll resistance has been increased by 30% -- always a bad sign for off-road. The tweaks to the air suspension seem to be focussed on the low and access modes. Although the tyre size has been increased, by my calculations the outside diameter is still the same -- they are just fatter. Perhaps this is all sour grapes on my part! In spite of these things, it looks like a magnificent vehicle. Many thanks once again John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:14:27 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:51:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" To: caloccia@sw.stratus.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"caloccia@sw.stratus.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Bill Caloccia writes... > Subj: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" > > > "Lucas Industries, already convicted of selling shoddy goods to the U.S. > military, faces criminal investigation into whether it falsified the > inspection of parts used on Boeing airliners." > > _Roundel_, "Briefs", Sept. 1994. > So... this is news?? Oy! Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) LUCAS A hard days work and Home before dark! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 18:01:45 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: "Prince of Darkness Strikes again ?" Date: Mon, 03 Oct 94 18:32:21 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO "Lucas Industries, already convicted of selling shoddy goods to the U.S. military, faces criminal investigation into whether it falsified the inspection of parts used on Boeing airliners." _Roundel_, "Briefs", Sept. 1994. _Roundel_ is 'The magazine of BMW Car Club of America, Inc.' (Actually, a very good magazine, even if most of the articles are whinging on about how great the BMW nnn is or how better it ought to be. The undisputed information channel for the skinny on the better electronic counter measure and detection equipment, not to mention they picked up Satch Carlson after Autoweek dumped him.) [All that and membership in BMWCCA gets you the abililty to do 'drivers schools', which is why I joined.] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 20:54:59 1994 Date: 03 Oct 94 21:47:34 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO Robin Craig writes: > ...the next model year of 90's might have a hard top fitted as standard > and that it will be aluminum... Sounds like this would be more or less permanent. Having the option of a hard top would be nice although the noise doesn't really bother me and open air driving is ok most of the year in Southern California. It's nice to hear that this is retrofittable and the same color as the current soft top although $3000 is a lot. Can I hope this is CD$ and not $US . > BTW the GRP version is designed to fit with all of the roll cage > structure intact. Does this include the rear portion of the cage used with the soft top? Thanks for the information! Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 20:55:13 1994 Date: 03 Oct 94 21:47:39 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: 90 rear tailgate Status: RO Robin Craig writes: > One of the points I have notcied is the amount of slop / play at the > lacth side of the rear tailgate at the top when you close the tailgate > with the door bearing the momentum of the wheel on the swing mount. I have also noticed this. What is happening is that the latch mechanism is not fully engaged as the tailgate tends to "bounce". So the result is the tailgate can move. One should obviously not drive with the tailgate in this state as a no-notice opening could occur. Three tries or so should result in the tailgate completely closing in a solid fashion with no "bounce". I seem to have had more success if I try to close the tailgate with the minimum of force. Of course one try should do it but I have not yet found it sufficiently annoying to look at myself or take to the dealer. One note: there is no play in the door hinges that I've noticed, I suspect the latch is the problem, perhaps some lubrication or adjustment. Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 00:56:30 1994 From: C Taylor Sutherland III Subject: Repost!!! Please To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 01:52:58 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 239 Status: RO The people that were importing LR's that were due the 4th Oct. I got the mail, bu tin attempts to save it, the editor ate it. I would like an address, so I can decide because of my own decision, not because I lost the mail. :) Thanks From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:35:15 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:51:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: maloney@wings.attmail.com, lro@team.net, denis@oswego.edu X-Vms-To: INTERNET"maloney@wings.attmail.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" INTERNET"denis@oswego.edu" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Yep.. it's getting just a bit toooo quite around here... Stephan Thomas, proud Disco owner wonders why his lights don't flash. And then Baloney, er Maloney, seeing a chance for fame and glory, in a FLASH of inspiration, tells of all sorts of flash..... > From: IN%"maloney@wings.attmail.com" 3-OCT-1994 09:46:45.97 > To: IN%"LRO@stratus.com" > CC: > Subj: Flashing Rover Things > > > Steven asks: > > >> > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > encouraged). > >> > You blew it Stephan... "humorous replies" indeed!.. So Maloney says.... > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and> > > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. OK Bill... I'm fowarding this to Steve Denis. Poor boy is tied up (Please, not the tied up bit!) in school studying hard. (Or studying coeds? I'm sure thats hard to take...) Parking lights flash when you lock the vehicle?? Whaaattt?? Cheers... Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 02:11:15 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 02:03:39 -0600 (CST) Subject: Def 90 Hardtop recent post To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO What is "gel-coated GRP"? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 3 18:59:05 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: New Land Rover Club & Gear box troubles To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 9:37:45 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Thought I would just like to inform every-one of the formation of a new Land- Rover club, in Gippsland, in Victoria, Australia. The club held its second monthly meeting last night, and I became a member last night! Currently there are only about 35 members, but the club is only two months old. Also what are people experiances with broken layshafts, as I broke mine, trying to roll start my diesel, and I only reliased when I tried to move it under its own power a couple of weeks later, when there was a grinding noise coming from the gear box. I hope I do not have to replace the gear box, as I doubt I will get another Series 1 gear box, and I would just miss that dip stick!! Thats all for now! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 10:53:34 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 08:43:40 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au, lro@team.net Subject: Re: New Land Rover Club & Gear box troubles Status: RO In message <9410032337.AA09480@emu.ocs.cpsg.com.au> Craig Murray writes: . > > Also what are people experiances with broken layshafts, as I broke mine, > trying to roll start my diesel, and I only reliased when I tried to move it > under its own power a couple of weeks later, when there was a grinding noise > coming from the gear box. I hope I do not have to replace the gear box, as > I doubt I will get another Series 1 gear box, and I would just miss that > dip stick!! > Greg, I lost the layshaft in my series IIA 109 a month ago. I was pulling out from a stop and it sounded like the transmission poped out of gear. There was no first or second, third was fery loud so I imeediatly got out of that gear. Fourth worked fine. I drove back on fourth. Mine was a clean break and all I needed was a new layshaft. I could see an irregularity in the centre of the shaft where it broke. Talking to Scotty (the local Land Rover Geru), he seems to think that about one in a hundred lay shafts had an irregularity. Its always at the same place on the laysaft. I guess I would recommending having any lay shaft you use X-rayed, and X-ray an old intact one during a rebuild. Of course this would only need to be done once. Hope you get it fixed OK. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 11:33:56 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. To: twakeman@apple.com ("TeriAnn Wakeman" ) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 12:27:21 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410041543.AA14936@apple.com>; from "TeriAnn Wakeman" at Oct 4, 94 8:43 am Status: RO SNIP - SNIP > > > Greg, > I lost the layshaft in my series IIA 109 a month ago. I was pulling out from a > stop and it sounded like the transmission poped out of gear. There was no first > or second, third was fery loud so I imeediatly got out of that gear. Fourth > worked fine. I drove back on fourth. > > Mine was a clean break and all I needed was a new layshaft. I could see an > irregularity in the centre of the shaft where it broke. Talking to Scotty (the > local Land Rover Geru), he seems to think that about one in a hundred lay shafts > had an irregularity. Its always at the same place on the laysaft. > > I guess I would recommending having any lay shaft you use X-rayed, and X-ray an > old intact one during a rebuild. Of course this would only need to be done > once. > > Hope you get it fixed OK. Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a couple of weeks. Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu King George, Va. '66' IIA 88 RHD > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 12:49:01 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 94 10:37:44 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. Status: RO In message <199410041629.MAA08508@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" > Hope you get it fixed OK. > > Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest > on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the > foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? > I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a > couple of weeks. > > Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu > King George, Va. > '66' IIA 88 RHD > > Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a half. I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. The price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow mw to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can get a before photo of the Green Rover. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 13:24:52 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 11:19:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: lro@team.net Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known far enough in advance. Many thanks John Brabyn Mill Valley California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 14:22:01 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 15:12:04 EST To: lro@team.net, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: lighting science - long post, delete if you don't care... Content-Length: 11154 Status: RO Fellow netters, Since I'm a confirmed quartz halogen junkie, I've been asked to discuss the specifics of European headlamp aiming. It is an art rather than a science, but anyone can do it with a flat parking lot, a little time on their hands and some darkness. True European headlamps (H4, H1, etc.) typically do not have the appropriate mounting points for American headlamp aiming machines so they must be aimed by hand. H1, H2, H3, H4 all refer to a specific style of bulb. They are quite different and not interchangeable. The H4 is the only style that has a dual filament. The lens and reflector may be unique to a specific style of car - 1994 Volvo 850, for instance. Or it may be a common shape, 7 inch round or quad rectangular... Most systems sold in the US are sealed, that is the lens, reflector and bulb are a single integrated unit, just like a 70 watt lightbulb for your reading lamp. Others have replaceable bulbs, like your Bosch or Hella fog lights and virtually all European headlamp systems. The rational behind this is that the lens and reflector don't wear nearly as quickly as the bulb, so the high quality optical lens/reflector is reusable the cheap part (the bulb), which wears out, is replaceable. In addition, this allows manufacturers to design aerodynamic lenses if desired (early Saab 9000, Audi 5000, Porsche 911, etc.) Most of these cars have different headlamp configurations in the US and Europe (older Saab 900, Audi 4000) although some manufacturers *are* trying to standardize (late Saab 9000, Land Rover Discovery, BMW), which may mean that European lighting is getting poorer *or* US lighting is getting better. YMMV. BTW, I believe that most of Canada now follows the more restrictive US lighting codes. Usually lamp assemblies are referred to by their style - Volvo 240 aero, or Volvo 240 quad rectangular, not H4. In fact the quad rectangular takes two different bulbs, the H4 for the outboard combo lo/hi and H1 (if memory serves) for the inboard high beam. But the quad rectangular (lo/hi) or 7 inch round could either be US sealed beam or European lamps, which would take H4 bulbs. So some people may say 7 inch round H4, meaning 7 inch round Euro... Bulb Availability I buy my bulbs from Imparts. They seem to offer the best prices on bulbs at about $11 or so per high powered bulb 90/100 or 100/130. They also have high powered 9004s, for late model Saabs, Volvos, and a variety of other cars and trucks. You can reach them at 800 325-9043. I've run 80/100s in H4 quad setups on an '82 Volvo 244T. No problem with wiring or blinding people. OTOH, I have fried several wiring connectors on my wife's Saab 9000 with 70/80 and 80/100 watt bulbs, but it uses a 9004 bulb with a very poorly designed connector. I recently upgraded the connectors with new heavy-duty ones from Competition Limited. These use a much more robust female connector. Haven't had any problems since. I'm currently (ahem) running 90/100s in my '88 Volvo 745T and have used these wattage bulbs since the car was new. I run my headlights day and night and typically get about a year! out of a bulb. I've got a set of 100/130s in the toolkit just waiting to be installed when the last of the 90/100s goes. Proper aiming of the lamps will help keep you from blinding people, but the fact is that in some circumstances, coming over the crest of a hill for instance, the concentrated light from the H4 will bother people no matter whether you've got 55 watts or 130. Passing can also be a problem. Don't linger behind someone as you're passing them. The "hot spot" of your beam pattern shines right on their mirrors and into their eyes. Makes them rather cranky. If you see your beam pattern heading toward their mirror, just pick up the pace a bit. BTW, trucks can be particularly sensitive to this and may take countermeasures you won't like. So be careful when passing. Low Beam Aiming Aiming is straightforward. First, find a completely level area that borders a wall. Drive right up to the wall and mark a spot on the wall directly opposite the center of each lowbeam. Then back up about 10 feet. You want the hot spot to hit just below and to the right of that mark, about 3 inches down and to the right. Here's what the pattern will look like, with apologies to you gui fans: / / / / X / X / ---------- ---------- The X is your mark. The hot spot is where the diagonal and horizontal lines meet. This will ensure that as traffic approaches, the hot spot won't be pointing up into their eyes. I've been asked why I run such high-powered lights on my cars. Personally, I think that most people vastly overdrive their lowbeams in anything but ideal conditions. So I like that extra margin of the additional light on the road. Aiming High Beams The procedure for aiming high beams is a little different than that for aiming low beams. The goal of aiming low beams is to ensure that the hot spot stays on the road in front of you and away from oncoming drivers, that's why you want the hot spot to gradually drop off the further away you get, with the top of the hot spot falling onto the road some 50 or 100 feet away from the car and to the right. With high beams you don't care about oncoming traffic, unless of course you're trying to fry retinas. Instead you care about maximum beam dispersion. So you trust the lamp designer to provide a good pattern with good light control and dispersion and simply aim them directly ahead or perhaps angled outward just slightly. It's a little difficult to do this using the low beam aiming technique because of the size of the high beam hot spot, but a modified version works. By the way, you do not need to re-aim the high beams of an H4 (single reflector) setup. Once the low beams have been aimed, the high beams are also properly set. The dual filament bulb casts low and high beams onto different portions of the lens, providing discrete beam patterns for each setting. Keep in mind that a quad setup has 4 lamps firing on high beam, since the low beams have a secondary pattern on high. Don't re-aim the outer lamps for their high beam pattern. In fact whil you're aiming the high beams, it is probably wise to unplug the low beams and deal only with the inner lamps. For the high beams, move right up to the wall described earlier. Make sure you're on absolutely level ground or the aiming will be thrown off. Mark an X directly opposite the center of each high beam. Now very slowly back away from the wall, taking care not to pitch the car with acceleration or to run into anything behind you... The high beam hot spot should grow around that X, but not move away from being centered on it. If anything, it should come up just slightly. Readjust as necessary. Fog lights Contrary to popular opinion, fog lamps are not designed to be aimed directly at the ground for maximum illumination or directly up into the air to illuminate low-flying aircraft. Fog lamps have a broad flat beam pattern with a sharp cutoff. They should be aimed directly ahead for maximum coverage, with a 5 degree or so downward slope to the beam pattern. For best road coverage they should be mounted below the bumper...for maximum protection they should be above the bumper...you choose. Aiming methodology is similar to that for low beams. On older lights I've had snow and ice create a thermal inversion that's cracked the lens. Hasn't happened recently though to either Bosch fogs on my Volvo or Hella fogs on the Saab (both factory supplied), but you should clear them of all snow and ice before you turn them on. And don't use snow to clean a lamp that's hot (learned that the hard way!) Other Auxiliary Lamps If you're adding driving or pencil beams, you know what you're doing. Checking Patterns Once all of your lights are properly aimed, you can run a couple of simple tests to verify. First, find a *very* level road. Turn your low beams on and walk about 75 feet away from the car. If you bend down, the hot spot of the light should strongly intensify as your head gets closer to the ground. The lamps should look lit but not blindingly so from normal height. Once you get to about a foot from the ground you should see the hot spot. You should also be able to see the beam cutoff on cars in front of you. As you move further away from the car in front of you, the cutoff should drop slightly. On level ground it should not be above taillight or trunk level. Aiming Mechanics There are two adjustments on each headlamp, one dictating left/right aiming, the other controlling up/down. These are little knurled knobs or similar, usually accessible from behind the lamp. These adjust how the entire lamp assembly is pointed in the assembly mounting structure, not the position of the bulb within the reflector, which is fixed. In addition, when you replace a bulb in a European style lamp (H4, etc.), you do not need to re-aim the lamp. In fact, when you replace a sealed beam unit, you should not have to re-aim that lamp either. (BTW, I had a set of Euro lamps that did have two separate bulbs in one housing with an adjustable high beam reflector, but that's a different story...) American spec lights all have fittings for a headlight aiming machine which aim them using bubble scopes rather than beam pattern. Some European lamps also have this fitting, but I'd trust my 15 years of aiming these things over a machine which would not be designed for European beam patterns. (Unless of course your parts place which sold you the lights *does* have a Euro lamp machine. I think the Tire Buying Place in Elmsford NY did at one point.) Also, BTW, if you are changing bulbs, make sure you don't touch the bulb portion of a headlight bulb with your finger. The grease from your finger on the glass of the bulb will cause it to overheat and fail prematurely. I believe isopropyl alcohol will clean it safely. The Law Legally, most European lamps are to be used for offroad purposes only. Sure! Replacement headlamps come with a sticker right over the lens that says so. I have *never* had a problem with either NY or MA inspection or police regarding any lamp I've run. (Keep the 8" rally lights covered) Other states and jurisdictions may be somewhat more restrictive, PA and MD particularly. So you may need to swap out lamps when you go to get your car inspected in these states. Or worse. Again, YMMV. I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on the Internet. You get in trouble, you're on your own... BTW, with enough lights on the front of your car, you may not need snow tires. Flip the lights on and instant dry pavement! Hope this helps. Please feel free to repost all or part of this anyplace you see fit. If you make any money with it, just send me half. Lee Levitt llevitt@idcresearch.com "Disclaimer? I don't need no stinkin' disclaimer!" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 19:20:56 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: subs to LRW From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 17:37:58 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO L R O 1 L R W 0 that should be the score board. I sent off a form for a subscription to the "other" Land Rover magazine LRW on 19 AUG of this year. I used THEIR promo form which states payment can be by credit card or "international money order". So i got a money order in Pounds Sterling from the good old Cnaadian Post office, which is cashable at any bank or post office in the UK. TODAY, i found it retunred from them saying that payments must be in the form of a cheque drawn on a uk account or a credit card!!! What an outfit, I ask you. Needless to say I will be on the horn in the am to really unleash my discontent, I will also call their editor to let him know what abunch of clowns they have working for them. BTW i have been using canadian postal money orders for years to the uk, work great, more secure than a credit card order by far, cos there is a refund available on them. rgds Outraged of Ottawa aka Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 20:22:03 1994 Date: 04 Oct 94 21:12:19 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Cc: Mike Fredette Subject: Hard Top for NAS 90 Status: RO Mike Fredette says: > ...my hard top is SUPPOSED to be here in 3 weeks,... Please give me your first hand opinion of the hardware and installation, I'd be very interested in hearing it (especially whether it can be done by one person in a reasonable amont of time). Thanks! Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 00:53:36 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Defender 90 success From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 21:12:54 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Jan Hilborn writes: > I have to concurr with Russ for Defender sales here in the east. I've > asked a round a bit if, say, oh, maybe in a year i might be able to get a > used 90 at a (somewhat) reasonable price and basically what i've heard is > that in a year or so i'll probably be able to get a *new* 90 at a > (somewhat) reasonable price. The common rumour up here is that the 90 is to be pulled in Canada. Sales are not there for it. $34k with a soft top, add $3k for a hard top and you are pretty close to the stripped Discovery at $39k. Rgds, Dixon PS. A site above mine somewhere is having major mail problems, so don't be surprised at the delays to responses or the possibility that mail may be getting lost. Though not for fourfold, at least I am getting a 56k link in my office later this week Time to add a new address to the mailing list (dkenner@emr.ca I think) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 22:04:28 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: subs to LRW To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 20:13:57 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Oct 4, 94 05:37:58 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1162 Status: RO Robin "Outraged in Ottawa" Craig writes: < L R O 1 L R W 0 It's a mixed bag, I suppose. LRO's editorial policy (or lack thereof) stinks, and LRW's subscription dept ain't got their act together. When I subscribed to LRW, I asked for it to start with Number 1, but they ignored my request and started me up at their convenience with Number 5. (At least the credit card option saves a lot of bank hassle and expense.) More disquieting news: LRW is not yet a year old and already on its third editor. Nigel Fryatt took over from Jerry Glenwright with no. 8, and two weeks ago, Alan Cade (sp?) came on board. Alan called me for urgent help: in the transition they lost half my manuscript scheduled for Dec. publication. (No problem: I faxed the missing pages.) I don't know the meaning of the rapid editorial changes, but the apparent disorder does not inspire confidence. I certainly hope they manage to stay afloat without alienating too many subscribers and contributors. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 21:41:16 1994 From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: subs to LRW To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 19:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: from "Robin Craig" at Oct 4, 94 05:37:58 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1764 Status: RO > > L R O 1 L R W 0 > > that should be the score board. I sent off a form for a subscription to > the "other" Land Rover magazine LRW on 19 AUG of this year. > > I used THEIR promo form which states payment can be by credit card or > "international money order". > > So i got a money order in Pounds Sterling from the good old Cnaadian Post > office, which is cashable at any bank or post office in the UK. > > TODAY, i found it retunred from them saying that payments must be in the > form of a cheque drawn on a uk account or a credit card!!! > > Needless to say I will be on the horn in the am to really unleash my > discontent, I will also call their editor to let him know what abunch of > clowns they have working for them. > > rgds > > Outraged of Ottawa aka Robin Craig > > -- > Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca > FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers > Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean > (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 > Outraged Robin, Ah, the familiar feeling of being outflanked by sheer ignorance compounded by rank stupidity. If you really want to bring this to the attention of somebody who is motivated to do something about it (i.e., has a financial interest) call the publisher. The editor may or may not be inclined to take action; not his/her department, you know. Might not even be any communications. Kind of sad, though, that the UK is exhibiting these characteristics. I had the impression that this was the sort of thing that only happened in Third World countries and American financial institutions. Maybe they used to work for British Leyland. Commiserating in California aka Walt Swain From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 4 23:23:17 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Rovers at the Bay State Rover Club Rally Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 04 Oct 1994 21:15:12 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I just got back from the Bay State Rover Club Rally and it was an interesting 700 mile trip without at functioning starter motor. (My starter worked until the first time it rained last week and then gave up the ghost of life. I think I'll going to try TeriAnn's suggestion of trying to revarnish it) The most interesting thing of the event in my view was the different type of Rovers present. Most of the events that I've gone had a grand majority of old Land Rovers and a few Range Rovers. This one was different. Here is an over view of the vehicles that were present: SIIA or SIIB Forward Control (the one was in the Rover's North catalog) 2 US Defender 110s 1 US Defender 90 (with dealer plates) 6 Range Rovers '85 German Spec 110 late SIIA xMoD 109 Pick Up SIIA 109 5 SIIA 88s (including the Badger) my SIII 88 2 or 3 Discoverys Quite a spectrum of Rovers. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 00:53:53 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Top Ten indicators you've just bought a rover From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 04 Oct 94 23:31:05 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Mike Rooth writes: > > 1. You wipe all the dust off of your tool box and > > swap all the metric spanners for English ones. > Oooooh....I like it:-)Dixon,that's just *got* to go in the FAQ. Sure... :-) Though I never had any metric tools until I got the Rabbit a couple of years ago (since sent to its maker and replaced with a Saab 900 (had to get back to something semi British and the engine was the TR-7 lump)). Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 01:42:55 1994 Date: Tue, 4 Oct 1994 23:34:11 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: lotsa stuff Status: RO Well, I'll be. I certainly didn't know that! The two reasons I got an Internet address was for the LRO list and the Cognos Powerhouse list. Small world, eh? Is he a member of OVLR? Maybe I can get an LRO discount on the North American User Conference next June? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 06:49:22 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 07:45:19 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Allright, as a short timer here (uk) I'm going to stick out my neck and answer some questions... ------ From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu > What is "gel-coated GRP"? I think that is the UK phrase for fiberglass. (gel-coated glass re-enforced plastic) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Brabyn Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally > Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this > year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known > far enough in advance. >From little experience, I'll venture that it will continue to be held on the 'May (or Spring) Bank Holiday' weekend, which commonly falls about the same time as Memorial Day in the states (Monday May 29, 1995), I recall hearing that the host club this year is Linconshire, (and they are rumoured to have fun prowling about old quarries, which can be rough on vehicles). If you intend on entering any competitions,* you'll need to register soon, Due to some convoluted supremacy of the RAC (supreme automobile competition authority in the UK), you'll need to hold a valid RAC competition liscence to compete. For the purposes of the ARC nationals, this in practice, means you join a UK Rover ARC (and therefore, RAC) affiliated club, as full membership includes the appropriate right to compete, and insurance disclaimers, etc.. *speaking of which I don't recall seeing such in my recent Southern mailings. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Walt Swain >From the discussion of problems at LRW and LRO: > Kind of sad, though, that the UK is exhibiting these characteristics. wrt the UK: 'customer service' is generally accepted to be an oxymoron on this island... though I must say I was amazed (in a positive way) during a recent trip to 'kwik fit' (muffler/brake/shock, etc. chain). Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 07:20:55 1994 Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service To: LRO list Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 13:06:11 +0100 (BST) From: Richard Jones In-Reply-To: <199410051145.HAA22332@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> from "William Caloccia" at Oct 5, 94 07:45:19 am Organization: Apricot Computers Limited Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1182 Status: RO William Caloccia writes: > > From: John Brabyn > Subject: Next Land Rover National Rally > > > Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this > > year's, which could have been avoided (the missing I mean) if I had known > > far enough in advance. > > From little experience, I'll venture that it will continue to be held on > the 'May (or Spring) Bank Holiday' weekend, which commonly falls about the > same time as Memorial Day in the states (Monday May 29, 1995), I recall > hearing that the host club this year is Linconshire, (and they are rumoured > to have fun prowling about old quarries, which can be rough on vehicles). > 27th - 29th May 1995 Blankney Park, Lincolnshire, England But was this the National Rally in question or was it with regard to a North American event? -- _ __ Apricot Computer Limited Tel: (+44) 21 717 7171 ' ) ) / 3500 Parkside Fax: (+44) 21 717 0123 /--' o _. /_ Birmingham Business Park / \_<_(__/ <_ BIRMINGHAM B37 7YS Email: richardj@apricot.co.uk Richard Jones United Kingdom ..!uknet!apricot!richardj From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 07:20:51 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 08:06:21 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Bay State Meet To: LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.oswego.edu Content-Type: Text Status: RO This past weekend I attended the Bay State Rovers meet in Cape Cod. I arrived Friday at noon after a 6 hour drive in heavy stop and go traffic. Not fun. The wind on the Cape was estimated at 35mph and really cold (the national weather service said that the winds on the top of Mt. Washington were 95mph). I had to stake down my dome tent for the first time, and even at that the wind was blowing it almost flat. Chris Laws of Badger Coachworks was there with his well kitted IIA 88, his friend Dennis had a military 109 late IIA with canvas top, and another fellow had a recently redone IIA 88 in that new Defender green. Wow! Even though the bodywork had not been fully prepped, it looked great. It's a super color. Not many others showed up Friday evening and Jim and Cathy Papas were noticeably absent. Ben Smith arrived around 9pm after following somewhat questionable directions from myself bringing the OVLR contingent up to 2. After a downright frigid night (pull all the clothes out of your travel bag and pile them on your sleeping bag) some more folks showed up between 10 and noon. Jim Pappas brought his 110 and a 90, Andrew Cutting brought Jim's IIB(?) forward control, Mark Leteorney (sp) of Rover's North arrived with his '85 110, and Chris Velonis arrived that evening bringing a new 110 and a new babe (and a rather attractive one at that). There were several others I did not recognize bringing the total to the mid 20s. One of the Disco's included a rather attractive young lady. We almost choked when we found she was 14. Cathy Papas did a great job of flipping dogs & burgers on the grill for lunch, then we headed out on the off road trip. Chris Laws had to leave his Rover behind due to a snapped downpipe. The same failure reportedly happened to him last year. Forget about genuine parts. It's time for him to use some new parts for a change (Buy a new pipe, Chris!). The trails were tight with brush on either side and hard packed for the most part with some softer sandy stuff here and there. A little mud could be found but nothing you could get stuck in. There was one section where the bikers had made some woop de dos, which made for a rather entertaining drive. At mid point, we parked in a wider softer sandy area where Mark gave a winching demonstration. Very informative with a strong emphasis on safety. That evening Jim had a catered clambake at the campground. I'm not a clam fan, so I passed, but the folks that took part enjoyed it very much. Jim passed out canvas Range Rover bags to the club members with Range Rover Visors and mini binoculars. Ben wasn't included until I suggested he join the club. He did and got a bag out of it. Jim also had many photos and specs on the new Range Rover. It's a good looking vehicle but even if I could afford it I couldn't afford to maintain it. There seemed to be 3 distinct cliques/groups that evening. The Land Rover contingency down by the lake who brought their own food & beer for the most part, the Range Rover/Disco crowd that did the expensive clambake at the high ground with more beer, and down in the lower reaches of the campground below the outhouse lurked Chris Velonis in the DEAD ZONE. With all the music, beer, and accompanying social activities normally found at Dead concerts. I discovered the reason folks bought the 110 Defenders, and that was so that you had enough room to carry your cubic yard of CDs. Ben was right, this was a rather different rally. Later in the evening Jim fired up a portable generator to power a TV and VCR showing Land Rover videos. There wasn't a site in the campground that didn't reverberate with the sound of that generator. The two other organized "events" were a raffle and a folder of Rover parts to be identified. Both were held after I left, but Ben was kind enough to bring back my winnings. I received another Range rover bag with visor, a Range Rover Beer cooler (pretty neat-now I have a place for my extra Land Rover patch), and a box of ROVER cookies. Baked with 90wt for sure. Speaking for myself, no rally is complete without coming home with some goodies. And aside from the items I won, I bought a Bay State sweat shirt to replace my OVLR sweat shirt for the weekend (Oh, oh, I can feel the flames coming). The Bay State sweat shirt was MUCH heavier, and as I am not anywhere near as hardy as my fellow OVLR members (I've never skinny dipped with Dixon, Dale, or Bates in a frozen lake), I had to put survival first. I must confess, the sweatshirt did make a difference. It would be a bit much in the summer, though. I also got from Ben 100+ feet of his big bloody rope. We made it an even trade for my spare clutch master and slave rebuild kit (yes, it was a fair trade). Saturday night rained cats & dogs and I decided to leave early Sunday morning. Fortunately the weather cleared and the route I chose to take home, although being 20-30 miles longer, saved me an hour and a half off the direct route using 95. Over all, it was OK. The best part was getting to see everyone again, and I really enjoyed meeting Andrew Cutting from the UK. Also it was nice to see Mark in a setting away from Rover's North where he was just one of the guys. Bill Maloney IIA 88 & 109 Wagon Wayne, NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 09:28:58 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 09:59:06 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Leaving right now (Wed. 10 AM) for the rally site, as there are still a few loose ends to tie up. If you are planning to attend and have not registered, bring your own food, as the final numbers have been given to the caterers. As of PM Tuesday, over 60 Rovers from as far away as Sarasota, FL had registered. All marques too, from a '51 Sries I to new Discos. For those who wanted T-Shirts, there probably will not be any left...we printed up twelve dozen and they are *spectacular* in SIX print colors. I expect them to sell out quickly. All of the parts suppliers have donated some really great prizes: ABP gave a receiver-mount bike rack, BR a hi-lift, RN a MAX tool and CCC Auto Accessories some great enamel Land Rover signs. And of course, the Camel Trophy stuff from RJR. Reports to follow.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 10:04:25 1994 Date: 05 Oct 94 10:50:44 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Next Land Rover National Rally Status: RO John Brabyn wrote: >Does anyone know when next year's event is scheduled? I had to miss this Next years's ARC *Inter*national Rally (as it is now called) will be held on the british spring Bank Holiday * May 27 - 29 1995 * at a site just south of Lincoln and hosted by the 'Lincolnshire Land Rover Club Ltd'. For further information, call or write snailmail to: Eric Rawlings, 23 Banovallum Gardens, Horncastle, Lincolnshire LN9 6PN, voice: 0507-526847 Cheers, Stefan LROC of Hessen Wiesbaden, Germany From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 11:16:43 1994 Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 11:34:56 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Rollbars & Softtops To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO At the Baystate meet a fellow with a IIA 88 had a rollbar fitted along with hoops & a canvas top. The horizontal side bars that connect the front and rear hoops are mounted on the outside of the bars at the front (instead of inside) and seems to cause no problem (I would take care to make sure there are no sharp edges to contact the top). The rollbar attaches to the galvanized body cappings 1.5" aft of the front hoop. He had to cut a 1" hole in the lower part of the capping to allow the fitment of the rear nut for the rear bar mounting plate. It's similar to the hole for the mounting of the center side hardtop brackets. He purchased the roll bar from DAP for around $200. It looks like a nice set up (the bar is a Lightweight roll bar). Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 12:05:07 1994 Date: 05 Oct 94 12:47:06 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: New Range Rover & the men behind it Status: RO Folks, I came across a very interesting article by a Chris Barrie in the british daily newspaper "The Guardian" of 29 Sept. (on page 19, section 'finance and economics') that gives some insight to the possible cause for Solihull's latest success, especially with the new Range Rover, and reports about a truly unique and new approach to personnel management. To save bandwidth I'll just quote the most interesting parts. ************************ PRESS CLIPPING ************************* "Selecting an elite from all production lines for a new model wins the associates' vote if it means jobs for life." "Land Rover, the Midlands-based specialist vehicle company, put workers through psychometric testing and extensive interviews when choosing the team that is to build the new Range Rover, which is unveiled today. The vehicle, which has cost BP# 300 million in development and production equipment, is being assembled by 650 workers selected from Land Rover's other production lines. The workers, or associates as they are called, were only accepted for the project once they had been interviewed for their attitude and "compatibility", and passed psychometric tests. Such tests are designed to reveal personality traits via analysis of answers to questionnaires. The workers' performance records were also scrutinised. ... *** TEXT OMITTED *** ... people had been chosen according to their readiness to fit in with Land Rover's new culture. With the aid of outside consultants, the company and its selected workers set about devising a set of rules and standards for the new production line. Under the acronym "Conquer" - _C_ommitment, _O_ne team open minded, _N_o second best, _Q_uality image, _U_tmost honesty, _E_ffective communication, _R_espect - the team is supposed to be loyal, uncompromising in its drive for quality, have a sense of humour, consider others' opinions, lead by example, be friendly and share knowledge, accept there is no demarcation, and give praise and reward where due. There is also a ban on line-side smoking and eating... *** TEXT OMITTED *** ...Team managers lead the workforce in the assembly of the car. They were selected after a day of tests and trial presentations to managers, and are seen as key players in the drive to keep quality standards high on the shopfloor. They also had a say in the design of the cars's key components, ensuring that assembly is as easy as possible. Lineside manuals on how to put the car together are written by the teams. Productivity is up by a whopping 50 per cent, with the new Range Rover needing just half the time to build of its predecessor. " *** TEXT OMITTED *** ... ******************** END OF CLIPPING *************** How's that? Seems they've come a long way from the old British Leyland days when 2/3 of a workers time was spent with union meetings, strikes and tea breaks ... Stefan R. Jacob <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 12:45:35 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 10:39:17 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, rich@apricot.co.uk Subject: Re: GRP / ARC Nationals / Quality of Service Status: RO Many thanks for the info folks, but actually I was referring to the US one. Sorry for not making it clear! My mistake. Anyway, I'd love to go to the UK one as well!! John Brabyn California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 16:37:43 1994 From: llevitt@idcresearch.com Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 17:31:04 EST To: lro@team.net Subject: Source for Discovery service manuals? Content-Length: 415 Status: RO Has anybody either purchased or heard of basic service manuals for the Discovery, along the lines of Chiltons, Haynes or Bentley? It's for someone who wants to be able to do basic maintenance (oil change, etc) on their Disco, not take the whole thing apart with a nail clipper... If you do, could you let me know so I could pass the information along? An ISBN and publisher would be very helpful. TIA, Lee From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 20:41:34 1994 From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@team.net Subject: Rover V8s: cold and confused Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 18:33:07 Status: RO Back in March, a asked if anyone had experience with the Rover 3.9 V8 petrol in cold weather. Basically I had a few experiences last year in my Defender where the engine got confused in cold weather. The battery/starter worked, it had fuel, the engine was turning over, there was exhaust coming out the pipe, but the starter kept going and the engine wouldn't turn over. It seemed like the system was doing the EFI-equivalent of flooding itself, perhaps its sensors were confused by the temperature. This happened once in the BC Rockies in -60 condition after not having started the vehicle for 2 days (fingers were freezing to the engine block checking things out). But 2 other times it did this in my driveway, in much warmer (probably between 0-32) conditions. In response to my earlier query, Russell Burns replied: I had the same problem with my Range Rover. I also noted that a lot of Rovers were in the shop for the same problem. I will admit changing plugs in -30 f and pouring hot water over the intake manifold is not what I expected from my rover. My isuzu always starts. I have heard that if you don't step on the gas you will avoid this problem. I have not had enough -30 degree weather to verify this. Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM updates). The local Rover dealer mechanics (and their calls to LR North America tech support) both claim ignorance to any kind of problem like this, so I was hoping to find out if anyone else had this problem, or if this was a fairly isolated phenomenon? And if anyone has any advice on ways to help prevent/resolve this kind of problem, I'd love to hear them. what about the Kenlow heater as seen in LRO magazine? what about the stock engine block heater (could I rig this up to work off a spare auto battery?)? etc. Anyway, other Range Rover, Discover, and Defender folks, if you have any advice, please let me know. And you lucky Series II/II folks, please don't laugh too much that I can't simply pull out the choke and have it WORK... Thanks, Lee ps: one of the mechanics at the local Rover dealer is interested in this mailing list, I'm trying to get him setup on the Internet so he can post participate. __ Lee Fisher, leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621, 74750.776@compuserve.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 19:55:19 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: RALLY-L@GUVM.CCF.GEORGETOWN.EDU, lro@team.net, offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: lighting science (or lack there of) (long) Date: Wed, 05 Oct 94 20:51:28 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO broadcasts: >Subject: lighting science >Since I'm a confirmed quartz halogen junkie Admission is always the first step to recovery, you can seek help now when you're ready. :-) > I buy my bulbs from Imparts. They seem to offer the best prices on bulbs at > about $11 or so per high powered bulb 90/100 or 100/130. They also have high > powered 9004s Nice little blurb for 'em, they're generally a quality place, and given that most outlets flog bulbs for much more, they've not unreasonable, but but generally no fantastic deals either. >I've run 80/100s in H4 ... No problem with ... blinding people. At least that is what you think, 'cause obviously you're not attuned to what oncoming traffic experiences or you've screwed up your own aiming directions. [which were rather well written] > I'm currently (ahem) running 90/100s ... I've got a set of 100/130s in the > toolkit just waiting to be installed when the last of the 90/100s goes. > Proper aiming of the lamps will help keep you from blinding people, > but the fact is that in some circumstances, coming over the crest of a > hill for instance, Right, THE FACT IS YOU WILL always blind some oncoming traffic due to their physical location: Traffic below Traffic crossing your beams, such as on bends Traffic while passing Traffic on frontage or slip roads (parallel tothe offside) Occasionally Yourself Occasionally Traffic straight ahead That last two has everyone thinking 'this guy is nuts', well I am, but keep reading. Under weather conditions where there is fog, drizzle, or snow, this intensity (> 55W) of light will create a dazzle, that will affect the visibility of the oncoming driver, and it will also actually reduce the effective operating range which you'll get out of your lights. Additionally, anytime during rain, or on wet roads, your mega-watt head lamps will point where you set them, and then hit the water on the road and will be reflected ahead, and scattered a little, which will create a nasty blinding glare for oncoming drivers. [Though being in the Northeast, you probalby misjudge their flashing to be their dim bulbs bouncing over the pot-holes.] At this point, those of you who have some experience here, or have studied the chemistry of human optics, will realize that large amounts of light consume the available chemicals in the rods in your retina, and it takes about two minutes for you to fully regain your night vision, as those depleted chemicals are renewed, etc. Now those of us who have some sense, probably squint and look toward the offside pavement markings, but I think we can safely presume there are a set of drivers who are either clueless, or or shouldn't be out driving in the first place. Keeping in mind that their not capable of using their mind, and like that deer dead ahead they've fixated on your headlamps and trying to figure out what to do next. While your ton of steel is approacing thier tone of steel at something between 60 and 130 mph (depending...) > the concentrated light from the H4 will bother people > no matter whether you've got 55 watts or 130. Years ago, before the auto makers lobbied legislators to allow 'aero' headlamps, and the mass introduction of H9004 lighting systems, I would have agreed that 55W halogens bothered the general populace, most of whom were used to on coming traffic having tungsten filament bulbs which had long degraded to less than 75% of their luminosity (from new). Today, Halogen 9004s are the normal fare, and the difference between the standard 45w and a 55w is generally not perceived to be annoying. Under many advers conditions 85w bulbs are easily annoying. > Passing can also be a problem. Don't linger behind someone as you're > passing them. The "hot spot" of your beam pattern shines right on their > mirrors and into their eyes. Makes them rather cranky. > BTW, trucks can be particularly sensitive to this and may take > countermeasures you won't like. So be careful when passing. For having earlier stated that running high powered lights is 'no problem', you've certainly become aware (evidently by pissing off other road users) that they can be a problem. > I've been asked why I run such high-powered lights on my cars. Obviously cause you're a junkie > Fog Lamps > For best road coverage they should be >mounted below the bumper...for maximum protection they should be above the >bumper...you choose. Aiming methodology is similar to that for low beams. If you have a vehicle with unusually high bumpers, the mounting of fog lamps well above the ground will not serve you well, some places explicitly state upper limits for the height of fogs. > Other Auxiliary Lamps > If you're adding driving or pencil beams, you know what you're doing. Probably not, but then we're stuck with whatever these junkies decide to do. Now, flaming you along isn't a very nice thing to do, so I'll continue to explain what is 'in my humble opinion': To start with I'll state that I'm the last guy (ok, maybe not the very last guy - I've got a dime and I'm not going to call the FBI and tell 'em that I've invited uncle ho and chairman mao over for dinner), but the last guy who would tell you not to run higher power bulbs or auxillary lights on your vehicle. What I would suggest is that IF you get combination H4 bulbs, you ought to get dipped (low) beam and fog lamps bulbs that are of a reasonable strength - 55w or 60w. Run excess wattage in the high beams, and/or driving lamps. If you've got H4 based bulbs, look a little harder and you'll come across the maker of 55w/80w bulbs or even 55w/100w bulbs. This will allow you to present a civil amount of light to oncoming drivers - in any position or condition, and it will give you a reasonable strength low beam that won't cause a large amount of dazzle back to you when it is foggy or snowy. At the same time you run about as strong a high beam as is usefull in most hi/lo lamps. I personally can't understand why anyone would want to put in greater than 100w into a mass manufacturer high beam, 'cause those lamps are in some way compromised. Putting stronger bulbs in stock mustang 'aero' headlamps is in my opinion, putting extra energy in mostly useless places. I'd hold the same true for putting the higger wattage bulbs in standard european 7" or rectangular reflectors. The additional energy will get some additional distance, but it is still likely you'll have major dark spots for high speed driving. If you're out on the street, at lower speeds, odds are you're either on a twisty fun road, or in a populated area. In either case, greater distance straight ahead is of marginal use to you, and a hazard to oncoming, as they've havn't recovered from your dazzle when the reach the hazard you've just passed. Under these conditions fog lamps, which can serve duty as cornering lamps, and in populated areas will also assist in illuminaing to the sides, can assist in identifying short people, small animals, and other objects at or near the side of the road. At higher speeds, there is either on-coming traffic, so you'll be running dipped beams, or the world is your oyster, and you can run what you brung (within reason). The factory or converted high beams give the basic coverage, add driving lamps to fill in the voids left by the regulated lenses, and if you've already got the fogs mounted, they'll come in handy as you're flying down those unpaved parts setting up to practice the Sweedish flick... >The Law as I recall new jersey had on the books a limit to the number of forward facing lamps (six ?), so if you started out with 4 from the factory, you lose > Hope this helps. Please feel free to repost all or part of this Not a bad collection of thoughts, but you never did cover the science part of it, so I'll add that, from the last time this was thoroughly discussed (and yes, I've got the rest of the articles, memoirs of a foglight bone-head, as it were :-) Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" - Start Included Article - Copyright 1994, 1989: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Article: 1291 of rec.autos.tech From: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Subject: Re: Re: Halogen H-Style Bulbs and Foglights Summary: (60x2 + 55x4 +100) watts / 11.8volts = 37.3amps < [and yes, when I wrote this, I confess that I did have: 2x 7" Marchal H4 conversions 55/60w, 2x 7" Marchal 900 55w Fogs, 2x 55w Hella 155 driving lamps, and 1x 100w 7" Marchal 900 Pencil Beam. < on the front bumper of my car '79 honda wagon... Keywords: Hella, Cibie, Marchal, who is PIAA anyway ? Message-ID: <524@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> Date: 29 Dec 89 06:54:45 GMT References: <8681.257ea2f9@ecs.umass.edu> <7750006@hpfcso.HP.COM> Organization: HoNdA'S 'r' uS, (aka HaLo'S 'r' uS, HeLlA'S 'r' uS) Lines: 127 In article <7750006@hpfcso.HP.COM> post@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Post) writes: >Regarding the recent discussion on foglights: > >So, how do they work? Does anyone have any idea how they work, technically. Hmmm, considering the discussion, you could be talking about halogen bulbs, fogs, or everything, so here goes: Halogen Bulbs: Design & Mounting differences The differences between the H1, H2, and H3 bulbs are basically mechanical in form. Each has a different orientation of the filament with respect to the base, and each base is different. Further references will describe the tip of the glass as the 'top' the metal base as 'bottom', the top-bottom axis is the 'TB axis'. The reference to the filament, refers to the coiled portion '_//////_'. In the H1, the filament is in line with the TB axis. (One application is in the Hella DE 2000 (Ellipsoidal Reflector) Fog Lamp. It enters from the side or bottom of the reflector.) The H2's filament is perpendicular to the TB axis. (?), while the base is basically two 'fins' which are at the bottom of the lamp. (Marchal uses this lamp in their 900 series Parabolic reflector Lamps, it sits in the center of the reflector.) The H3's filament is perpendicular to the TB axis. While the base is about the size of a quarter, and perpendicular to the TB axis. (This is used by Hella in both the 181's (rectangular), and in the Factory fogs for Mustangs. It enters the rectangular lamp from the bottem, in front of the reflector, while in the slim-profile (circular) mustang lamps, it enters from the center of the reflector.) The H4 is a dual filament bulb, used in 7" diameter 'conversion' lamps, and some rectangular lamps. The new 'aero' headlamps use a closely related '9004' bulb, which has a radically different base. The H4's top is masked (always ? sometimes?), and both filaments are roughly in-line with the TB axis. the filament closer to the top has a sheild, so as to illuminate only half the reflector, and thus provide the 'low' beam. the second filament is located below the first, and has no sheilds. (This enters from the center of the reflector.) Actual positions of the bulb's entry in the lamp housing (center, bottem, side) vary with manufacter, and reflector design, for the H1, H2, and H3 lamps. Halogen Lamps: Basic Theory For operating prinicple of QH lamps I'll refer to "Automotive Electrical Handbook", (Jim Horner, HP Books). As for the operating principles of the Halogen (Quartz-Halogen) based bulbs, the basic tenants are that (1) the quartz housing allows higher temperature operation than glass housing, as well as providing optical clarity, and a minimal thermal expansion. (2) the 'halogen cycle'. tungsten vapor given off by the filament is redeposited back onto the filament, extending its life significantly. this also pratically eliminates bulb blackening. (3) in the halogen atmosphere, the tungsten filament can operate at a much higher temperature, producing 'whiter' light. (you know, colour temperature and all that) Automotive Lamp Applications: Fog (rain, snow) will reflect light, thus, any light which rises from the lamp, will be reflected back into the drivers eyes. Thus the designer of a fog lamp want so aim the light forward and down. Typically a good fog lamp will have a vertical dispersion of about 8-12 degrees down from the horizontal. The horizontal dispersion will be about 110 degrees. This puts light on the road in front of the vehicle, and to the sides, but puts no light up to reflect back into the drivers eyes. The fog lamp housing will incorporate a sheild to prevent light from leaving the bulb and then reflecting up. Fog lamps have a relatively short throw, the best being under 700 feet (Marchal 900 series, Hella Rallye 2000), typically the throw is about 500 feet. Fogs are also referred to as 'cornering' lamps in some circles, because of the very wide pattern, allows one to get a good view of where the road is going in corners. Amber lenses or reflectors will diminish output slightly, while providing better visibility in foggy and snowy conditions. Fogs can annoy oncoming traffic when they would normally be in your lowbeams, AND when the oncoming lane is lower in elevation than your lane, even if it is across the median. Low beams vary slightly with the design, especially the new Ellipsoidal Reflector designs which have shown up on the BMW's and in the latest Nissan Z-cars. Basically, a european dipped beam (low) will level to the left of the lamp axis, and rise slightly to the right (for left hand drive). This pattern provides for road illumination ahead, and rises to show more of the edge of the road on the right. The vertical adjustment of dipped beams is from 0 to 4 degrees below the horizontal, they don't point up in the air. The dipped beam has a short throw, similar to fogs, though is much narrower horizontally. High (or Main) beams generally are designed to throw light further than the low beams, and spreading the light up and down from the horizontal axis. Driving lamps will usually have a narrower beam which projects further than the high beams, and should be wired to shut off when the main beams are dipped (on low). Pencil beams are interesting but of limited utility under normal circumstances. Their extremely narrow beam has a very far throw, and as such is of limited utility, unless you like illuminating street signs two miles away, or run an interrogating service. Some of the 'off-road' lamps are of different designs, using a 'PAR' (Parabolic reflector) lamp which is a sealed beam. These are offered in many different styles (flood, short throw, long throw, spot lamp), and are usually shock mounted in cases. They are designed for a different environment (namely, no oncoming traffic), and thus are quite rude on the road, while being fine for driving through the back country and getting a good handle on the trees and bushes coming at you. Also, the PAR lamps are much more costly to replace than the replacable H1/2/3 bulb, but probably less costly than replacing the lens/reflector unit which houses the H1/2/3 bulb. next ! I plead insomnia. -------- "tcp-ip doesn't care whether it's twisted pair or baling wire. :-) " -- quote attributed to Kent England, BU - End Included Article - From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 21:05:25 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: leefi@microsoft.com Date: Wed, 5 Oct 94 18:59:51 PDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com>; from "leefi@microsoft.com" at Oct 5, 94 6:33 pm Status: RO jjj> > Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will > help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM > updates). > Can you forward me more info on the Prom updates. Price? How many Roms it takes to run a Rover.? Do you notice any difference? Are these the 20MPG version. We are also supposed to have another cold winter, and if this would help, it sure would be easier than drying plugs out at -30 Russ Off to Va. for the Rover Rally From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:17:30 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:13:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Source for Discovery service manuals? To: llevitt@idcresearch.com Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9409057814.AA781403464@ccmailout.idcresearch.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Try CARTECH at 1-800=551-4754. They might just have what you want. I know they have the other Land Rover Books. Dave VE4PN. PS I am hoping to have their catalogue in a few days. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:40:34 1994 Date: Wed, 5 Oct 1994 22:22:10 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: leefi@microsoft.com Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well I have not owned a modern Land Rover, mine have all been the Ser IIA and II types, but I do drive modern 4x4 with fuel injection and I often drive in Northern Canada where it gets to -40 etc. The trick is don't under any circumstances touch the gas pedal or you will be there a long time. For very cold weather you really need a battery blanket since most batteries are toast after about -20 when they are less than efficient. Lots of people up here use recirculating type heaters. They are easy to install and they have the added advantage of keeping the internal heater core warm as well, so when you start up you get warm air immediately. The types we use look like a soup tin with a top and bottom pipe connection. They have an element inside, and because of convection, they move liquid through the block and rad all night long. This keeps the fuel injection system warm as well , not just the oil like a pan or dip stick heater does. There are some very small models that fit right inside the large rad hose, so you don't need much space. When I say inside, I don't mean you push it up the hose, I mean you cut the hose and insert it between the cut pieces, but it is only about two inches deep so you don't add much to the length. At work, we shut the block heater plugs off for the weekend, and we turn them back on Monday morning at about 4 A.M. At -40, the vehicle is ready by 8 A.M. to be started and driven. Our biggest problem is frozen transmissions not engines that won't start. By the way, because water at -40 is a real drag, we use these magnetic brick type heaters for spot heating. On the aluminum of course you just have to sit it there, but for heating the pan, a frozen transmission or a dif, they work well. I notice the long haul truckers here use a thing called a "Tiger Torch" It is a pipe with a tap on it that has a hose with a fitting for a large Propane tank. They blast the engine and trans and diffs with it till things get warm and then off they go. Lots of them up north where I go, and they use them for just about any spot heating problem. May not be great on our leaky LRs however :-). By the way for those who like cold, my wife's cousin phoned from Alberta. They had 50 CM of snow in Waterton with 5 foot drifts and the road to Pincher Creek was blocked. 50 CM is about 20" I think. Good Land Roving eh :-) Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 5 22:51:24 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Universal joints Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 05 Oct 1994 20:48:52 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO While I was getting ready to go to the Bay State Rover Club Rally, I discovered that one of the universals on my front propeller shaft was shot. Of course I discovered this the day before I intended to leave. I went down to the local NAPA autoparts and found an identical spider for the universal. The part was made by Spicer and the part number is 5-153X. The cost was about $10. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 08:40:20 1994 Date: 06 Oct 94 09:31:44 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused Status: RO David John Place is right in pointing out > ... don't under any circumstances touch the gas pedal Apparently on 'cold start boot' the EFi computer enters a fairly simple trial-and-error loop, the likes of Procedure ColdStart while not (ignition) do begin waitfor(6 x starter_revolutions); if (motor_running) then ignition :=true else inc(fuel_air_ratio); end; End; (This is not the _real_ program, but as I would imagine it to be!!) It seems the program does no timeout-checking and, at this point, doesn't evaluate air flow or trottle opening, but assumes these to be fixed (default) parameters. Now if you begin pumping the gas pedal you're changing external parameters the program isn't aware of, it misses the crucial 'firing point' where the fuel-air chemical is right, and enters into an endless-loop, injecting fuel, and more fuel, and yet more fuel, until the cylinders are drowned... Another thing, I recall reading somewhere in the V8 workshop manual that the computer will perform erroneously if effective voltage drops below a certain level (I think it was 5 volts?) for any length of time. Now if you take a very cold battery, further drained by turning over a cold sticky engine (I assume you would be wise enough to disengage the clutch when cranking over at low temps??) then there might come a point where the computer looses its transient memory due to low voltage. Apparently the computer doesn't have a built-in backup battery either. BTW, I've heard of freaks doing 'chip tuning' to efi systems. They pull out the original ROMS, transfer the program to EPROMS, debug and improve the software, and stick the reprogrammed EPROMS back in place of the old chips. Does anyone have more information on this? Stefan <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:51:25 1994 To: lro@team.net Cc: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Rover V8s: EPROMS In-Reply-To: Your message of "06 Oct 1994 09:31:44 EDT." <941006133143_100043.2400_BHJ59-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 07:44:43 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Stephan asks, BTW, I've heard of freaks doing 'chip tuning' to efi systems. They pull out the original ROMS, transfer the program to EPROMS, debug and improve the software, and stick the reprogrammed EPROMS back in place of the old chips. Does anyone have more information on this? > > Well I don't know that you would call us freaks, just everyday ordinary folk out for MORE POWER! The EPROM replacement business is very large here in the US, where we Americans have a seemingly insatiable thirst for more horsepower. I tried one of these little babies on my 93 BMW 325is, made by DINAN Engineering. It claimed an boost of 18 percent in the horsepower deparment, going from 189 to 223, and it raised my mileage from 22.5 to 26. The chip cost almost $600 US, and if you have an automatic, I didn't, you had to buy two chips, one for the engine, and the second for the trans. There are lots of ads in the US magazines offering chip upgrades for various makes and models. The only one I've seen for our Solihull pride and joys is made by an outfit called ROVERCRAFT. They advertise in LRO as a chip upgrade sold in combination with an exhaust refit to boost horsepower to 190 on the 3.9L V8. Not very impressive considering it started at 182. That in combination with the cost of L458.25 makes a little discouraging. Of couse you CAN spend more to get more. L783.34 get you a new camshaft and associated bits to give you 225 BHP. And if you're really an enthusiast ( OK, a FREAK), L1774.45 nets you another 10 HP to 235 BHP buy adding a "complete performance" exhaust system to the above mods. I'm not one to scoff, but L1000 seems a bit steep for an exhaust system. Rgds Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:07:10 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 11:03:15 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@team.net From: Dave Subject: LRovers in Canada? Status: RO Dear all, There is a possibility that I may be moving from the UK to Canada (Toronto), which means I will have to sell my 1980 Series III SWB. Does anyone know if LRovers are available in Canada? I suppose ideally I'd like to get hold of a second hand 90 Turbo Diesel (Yup, I wanna move up in the world!) So if anyone has any info on availability, pricing etc, I'd be really greatful! Cheers for now, Dave From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:10:46 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 08:05:45 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Speaking of layshafts, etc. Status: RO >In message <199410041629.MAA08508@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" > > >Hope you get it fixed OK. >> >> Terrianne - Speaking of broken layshafts, etc., what's the latest >> on your engine problem?? Did you find out what the >> foreign substance was, and is it fixed yet? >> I'm still hoping for a photo when I'm out there in a >> couple of weeks. >> >> Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu >> King George, Va. >> '66' IIA 88 RHD >> > > > >Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a > half. >I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more >money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. > The >price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow > mw >to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can > get >a before photo of the Green Rover. > > > > >TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world >twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards >LINK: TWAKEMAN >408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 If you're coming out this way, you should stop by Scotty's anyhoo. Mine will probably be there (at least one of them), and who knows how many others. Plus, Scotty's a great guy. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 10:16:40 1994 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 08:07:13 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, lro-request@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, Offroad-request@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: GOT MY '94 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY!!! Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: GOT MY '94 LAND ROVER DISCOVERY!!! I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!! Ahem... um... "Oh, by the way... I received my new Land Rover Discovery last night." Absolutely incredible vehicle!!! I had it in the dirt within 2 hours of picking it up, I... well... I "HAD" to try it out! ;) Sigh... how on earth am I EVER going to get any work done today??? Well, there's always Tomorrow. ;) Administrators: Please update my Bio: Vehicle: '94 Land Rover - Discovery Automatic Leather seats Dual Air conditioning Dual sun roofs Jump seats (seats 7) Rino bars Rear lens guards Tinted windows Pin stripes (This should last long!!! ...RIGHT!!!) Black Wish list: Winch Off road lights Expedition rack Rear door latter (for rack) Skid plates (Anyone know any sources?) Nerf bars CD stacker Deep water snorkle air intake (Anyone know any sources?) #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:18:22 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) (maloney) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:11:50 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "maloney" at Oct 03, 94 9:33 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO > > Steven asks: > > >> > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > encouraged). > >> Bill replies: > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If > I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a > flash. :-) Nigel's left parking light flashes. Bang hard on the wing and it's on for good (it does turn off when you shut down the lights). Perhaps he's just a little ahead of his time. rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 09:35:43 1994 From: Tom Luteran Subject: Rover/HP diagnostics system.. To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:22:58 EDT Cc: toml@hpwadck.wal.hp.com Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Thought you all might be interested in this piece which appeared in HP's Measure company magazine. Enjoy! Tom -- (This is not to be reproduced without permission from the author, Tom Ulrich, Tom_Ulrich@hp6600.desk.hp.com) ....................................................................... Making History OXFORD, England -- If history is written by its survivors, the men and women of Rover Group have a compelling story to tell. Ninety years in the making, Rover evolved from a nineteenth century West Midlands bicycle manufacturer to a worldwide supplier of twenty-first century automobiles and trucks. Provincial from the start, Rover adapted to the global marketplace through partnerships with British Leyland (1968), British Aero- space (1988), Honda (1990) and BMW. Driven to compete internationally, Rover recast much of its product line before BMW purchased the lone British automaker in 1994. Since 1990, Rover Group introduced series 200 and 400 coupes, redesigned series 600 and 800 sedans, launched Land Rover Discovery and rolled the first MG RV8 off an Oxford production line. Rover emerged from an age of uncertainty in top form. Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any- thing like an MG. Its grey sheet-metal chassis contains a 486 microprocessor, a custom instrument board, a LAN card, a CD-ROM reader and a 120 MB hard disk drive. This rugged analytical computer connects to a DeskJet printer and supports a flat-panel display. TestBook, a new generation of precision instrument, grew out of a partnership between Rover Group and the Integrated Systems Division of HP. "We were looking for a company that had both computer and test and measurement expertise," says Project Director David Lawrance Hallgarth. "We were looking for a tool," he adds, "that combined diagnostic capabilities with vehicle information to assist a technician making a repair." "Rover did not want an off-the-shelf solution," explains John Morris, ISD's project manager. "So we worked with them closely to deliver a product that met their specific needs." Rover and ISD engineers equipped TestBook with a vehicle communication interface, digital instruments, expansion slots, battery pack and a touch screen display. Before this electronic toolbox arrived at Rover dealerships across the globe, service technicians struggled to maintain all the computer technology that design engineers placed in late-model automobiles and trucks. Diagnosing hard-to-find electrical faults, such as a flawed headlamp assembly or an intermittant sensor, are among the greatest challenges facing service departments in the 1990s. Industrywide, they account for 20 percent of a dealership's repair log and are the major reason for repeat repairs. "Traditionally, a technician diagnoses electrical faults by swapping parts," David Lawrance Hallgarth explains. TestBook combines computer-driven service tools and diagnostic strategies with on-line service information to guide a technician to the source of a problem and suggest a repair. It contains a digital voltmeter (volts), ohmmeter (ohms) and ammeter (amps) for evaluating an individual component or a complete electrical system. These on-line tools find answers to complex electrical problems that technicians with hand-held tools often miss. With touch screen technology and a direct link to the engine-control computer, technicians use TestBook to identify and repair faults that appear in the base engine and electrical systems such as anti-lock brakes, gear box, lamps and power windows. If the headlamp circuit fails, the technician need not spend two or three hours pulling connectors apart, swapping parts and perhaps, creating new problems. He can follow the prompts given by TestBook, perform the necessary tests with its electronic tools and fix the problem; tasks that should take him about ten minutes to complete. TestBook tracks the fault to a single wire or connector and specifies the procedure for making the repair. The technician can review the latest service information, product manuals and technical data using a CD-ROM based, technical information system. Once a technician completes the repair, TestBook prompts him for the cause of the failure. TestBook records this information and transmits it back to the factory so that Rover engineers can design even more reliable automobiles and trucks. For elusive problems that occur on the road, a technician uses a customer flight recorder (CFR) that he plugs into the vehicle's data-communication link and sends home with the customer. When trouble occurs, the driver presses the button and the flight recorder gathers diagnostic information. After the recorder captures the data three times, the customer returns to the dealership where the technician uploads the information to TestBook and completes the diagnosis. TestBook reduces the time it takes a technician to find an electrical or engine management fault by an average of 20 percent and helps him to diagnose the problem correctly the first time. "Dealers are surprised by the usefulness of TestBook," says David Lawrance Hallgarth. To outfit a workshop with all the equipment required to service and main- tain a modern automobile, dealers must purchase an engine analyzer, smoke meter, gas analyzer, diesel tester, suspension tester and wheel alignment rack. "Every time a dealer buys a new piece of diagnostic equipment, he buys a personal computer," says Brian Cade, principal engineer for TestBook. "From now on, a dealer needs to buy one PC -- TestBook." TestBook executes all functions for engine analyzers sold by Bear, Crypton and Sun. This electronic toolbox, with its guided diagnostics an on-line service information, will replace the meters and the gauges found in a dealership workshop by the middle of the decade. "There are as many people involved in the development of TestBook as the development of the new MG," says Paul Chappelle, product manager for the diagnostic computer. TestBook required five develop- ment teams within Rover and six within ISD. Together, HP and Rover assigned the project 75 engineers. "HP Support for TestBook has been phenomenal," says Andy Griffiths, Technical Support Manager for Land Rover. "The partnership between Rover and HP works well." "This alliance changed the way we do business," says Bill Russell, Computer System Operation Manager for HP Europe. "We no longer limit our success to short-term gain. Bringing TestBook to market demanded that we develop a strategic application with the customer following the production schedule of the cars and trucks it is designed to serve." Six years in the making, TestBook grew Rover Group from a (pound) 1 million to a (pound) 50 million account. It is part 1 of Rover Group's long-term strategy for combining service, sales and parts information across a company-wide data highway. "Rover's commitment to TestBook is bigger than a model release," admits Andy Ridyard, diagnostic engineer at Land Rover. "For a model release: you launch and in a few years time, it will go." "TestBook is like the Range Rover without end." (Tom Ulrich writes for HP's Integrated Systems Division in Sunnyvale, California. He wrote Another Roadside Attraction, an essay about Biosphere 2, for the January-February 1994 issue of Measure.) -- +----------------------------------------------------+ | Thomas Luteran | INTERNET address: | | Hewlett-Packard Company | toml@wal.hp.com | | Medical Products Group | HP TELNET: 1-659-4770 | | 3000 Minuteman Road | VOICE: (508) 659-4770 | | Andover, MA 01810 | FAX: (508) 686-1258 | +----------------------------------------------------+ + Opinions presented above are my own & not necessarily those of my employer + From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 11:44:50 1994 Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 10:39:07 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Netters Going to VA Rally? To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Are any other netters going to the Virginia Rally? So far, I know besides myself, Sandy Grice (of course), Russell Burns, Mike Lodice, and Ben Smith will be there. It would be nice to be able to connect the faces/Rovers to the names. See ya there! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:14:03 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 6 Oct 1994 16:49:17 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 16:49:26 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Rover/HP diagnostics system.. Priority: normal Status: RO > Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has > four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any- > thing like an MG. Its grey sheet-metal chassis contains a 486 > microprocessor, a custom instrument board, a LAN card, a CD-ROM > reader and a 120 MB hard disk drive. This rugged analytical > computer connects to a DeskJet printer and supports a flat-panel > display. Ah, but what's the badge on the front? (If it's Land Rover, can I get one for my my PC? :} ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:06:47 1994 From: "thomas r. coron" Subject: Re: Speaking of Scotty's, etc. To: sinasohn@crl.com (Roger Sinasohn) Date: Thu, 06 Oct 1994 12:58:40 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410061505.AA15391@crl6.crl.com>; from "Roger Sinasohn" at Oct 6, 94 8:05 am Status: RO > > > >Nothing new to report. I haven't talked to Scotty for about a week and a > > half. > >I'm planing on making the trek to his house this sat to give him some more > >money, which should pay off the labour on the transmission R&R & rebuild. > > The > >price of the layshaft will have to wait for another paycheck. It will allow > > mw > >to bring home another MG load of camping gear. Stop by Scottys and you can > > get > >a before photo of the Green Rover. > > > > > > > > > >TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world > >twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards > >LINK: TWAKEMAN > >408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, > > MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 > > If you're coming out this way, you should stop by Scotty's anyhoo. Mine will > probably be there (at least one of them), and who knows how many others. > Plus, Scotty's a great guy. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > > I might just do that - I'm going to be busy - daughter getting married, etc. - but may be able to sneak away for awhile. I'm going to be in the Campbell and Santa Cruz areas the week starting Oct. 14th. Where exactly is Scotty? Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu King George, Va. '66' IIA 88 RHD From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:30:57 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:12:27 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: leefi@microsoft.com Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused In-Reply-To: <9410060137.AA12458@netmail2.microsoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I have only had experience in 0-30 F so not extreme cold -- so far havent had any problem (knock on wood). However I seem to remember being mailed a service notice a year or so ago from LRNA via the dealer, about starting in high altitude / cold weather. I am afraid I might not have kept it, but it indicated that they acknowledged the problem existed. I think their proffered fix was just not giving it throttle or something like that. Anyway harrassment of LRNA might get a response?? I have found in very cold weather a couple of other annoying things like one of my door latches getting very stiff. You would think RRs etc would be specifically immunized from these conditions! The trouble is when it's that cold outside you can't even investigate the problem or you freeze to death. Let us know what you find out John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:22:48 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:18:30 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: Russell Burns Cc: leefi@microsoft.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused In-Reply-To: <199410060159.SAA15641@lint.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Yes if you could send all of us the ROM info it would be greatly loved. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:23:20 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:20:09 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: David John Place Cc: llevitt@idcresearch.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Source for Discovery service manuals? In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 5 Oct 1994, David John Place wrote: > Try CARTECH at 1-800=551-4754. They might just have what you want. I > know they have the other Land Rover Books. Dave VE4PN. PS I am hoping to > have their catalogue in a few days. > > Let us know if they have RR manuals as well. I have the factory manual, which is pretty good, but I always find the more manuals the better! Thanks John Brabyn 89RR > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:32:12 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 10:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Cc: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Universal joints In-Reply-To: <199410060348.AA178065329@envy.ugcs.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Wed, 5 Oct 1994, Benjamin Allan Smith wrote: > While I was getting ready to go to the Bay State Rover Club > Rally, I discovered that one of the universals on my front > propeller shaft was shot. Of course I discovered this the day > before I intended to leave. > I went down to the local NAPA autoparts and found an > identical spider for the universal. The part was made by Spicer > and the part number is 5-153X. The cost was about $10. > As a matter of interest, I foun=d out that u-joints for RRs are also available from the usual US foreign poarts suppliers for about $20. I don't know who they are made by though. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 12:55:01 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 10:42:06 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused Status: RO On the general subject of EFI etc, does anyone know whether a diagnostic instrument is available to plug in to the connector used by the dealers to diagnose problems? There is a manual diagnostic procedure described in the manual, which I have used, but it takes a long time using a multimeter. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 14:28:26 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 12:08:27 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: tcoron@s850.mwc.edu, sinasohn@crl.com, Roger@apple.com, Sinasohn@apple.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Speaking of Scotty's, etc. Status: RO In message <199410061700.NAA05995@transfer.stratus.com> "thomas r. coron" writes: > I might just do that - I'm going to be busy - daughter getting married, > etc. - but may be able to sneak away for awhile. I'm going to be in the > Campbell and Santa Cruz areas the week starting Oct. 14th. Where > exactly is Scotty? > > Tom Coron tcoron@s850.mwc.edu > King George, Va. > '66' IIA 88 RHD > Jim "Sotty" Hawet, lives at the end of a dirt road in Concord CA. It is a little East of Oakland and a 3 to 4 hour drive from where you will be staying. He is a very interesting person to talk to and has a lot of Land ROver knowledge. When he had his old British car shop, he was a dealer authorized warenty repair shop for Land Rovers. Generally Sundays are the worst day to visit. You can reach his answering machine at 510-686-2255. If he is in the shop and near the phone he might pick it up, but most of the time you will get the recorder. copy in:Show ClipboardHide Clipboard Undo <<<>>> Redo <<<>>>(Unable to display contents at the momentUntitled-<<<>>>closingquitting CanUt Undosave revert JN^ _\ONP From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 22:11:46 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 19:16:10 +0800 From: growl@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@team.net, hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Subject: Re: First Oil Change on New Disco X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 922 Status: RO > > Part II: > The manual says to refill the oil before changing the filter to avoid > draining the pump prime. The service guys advised me to just replace the > plug prior to removing the filter. Make sense? > > No longer waiting, > Harry I'd believe the manual on this one, the pump will stay full if the filter is still on. But, since you are changing TYPES of oil, you want to get out as much of the old oil as possible. For THIS first oil change. I would drain everything at once, then follow the manual on subsequent changes. The procedure in the manual minimises the time that the engine runs before the oil pressure comes up. Something I always do to to help this is to fill the new filter as full as possible with fresh oil before screwing it on. Hold the filter at about the angle that it mounts when you fill it so you won't have oil running down your arm when you screw it on. Regards, Bill G. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 17:16:27 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 16:57:36 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused To: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <941006133143_100043.2400_BHJ59-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I think you could overcome the memory lapse from a cold vehicle, and I intend to try it up here in Manitoba, but using the solar panel you plug into the lighter socket. This will "trickle charge" the battery keeping it warm, and it will keep the battery up to you won't loose the memory. I realize that most of the cold times are at night, but in Manitoba, we often leave the vehicles outside during the day when we are working, and since we are up in areas where there is no power, I think this will be a good trick. I have seen this unit on sale lately for as little as $39.00. Most marine dealers have them if you have problems getting one. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 22:11:26 1994 To: lro From: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com Date: 6 Oct 94 18:57:12 EDT Subject: Thanks posting about the Bay State Rally! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain Status: RO I've just moved to California (Bay area) and I was not able to make the rally this year. :( Looking forward to meeting the CA rover folks! John Hong From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 19:46:55 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 20:44:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: First Oil Change on New Disco To: Land Rover BBS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1277 Status: RO First things first: I got the call Friday night. Two hours later I was in heaven. We had waited four months for a 5-speed. Although we thought we wanted the base model, the loaded one that came in was too nice to pass up. As it is, Beluga Black, 5-speed, leather, dual sunroofs, rear seats and A/C. Saturday morning, the salesman took me on their offroad course in a Defender to show me how to handle obstacles and work the transmission. It was incredible what that thing could conquer. I have always been a believer; now I am a witness. Okay, enough rejoicing. My question: Being the loving owner that I am, I intend to change the oil after the first 1000 miles (which will be momentarily). I have been persuaded by the rec.autos.tech crowd to go with synthetic. What's the best weight to use? The dealer suggested 10W40 or 15W40, but the only synthetic I can find is either 5W30, 10W30, or 15W50! The manual implies you can use most, provided the temperature doesn't hit the extremes ( I live in Maryland). Part II: The manual says to refill the oil before changing the filter to avoid draining the pump prime. The service guys advised me to just replace the plug prior to removing the filter. Make sense? No longer waiting, Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 6 23:21:08 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: 90 hard top From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 06 Oct 94 22:48:43 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO TerriAnn says to take off the roll bar from the NAS 90's and slap a regular hard top on. great idea, except that the NAS 90 has no bulkhead behind the seat and the roll bar is designed to be an integral part of the vechile. Great idea though TerriAnn, good lateral thinking. regards Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 01:12:14 1994 Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 23:07:06 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 4-cylinder cookery Status: RO I went out to Scotty's last night, and did indeed try cooking brownies on the engine. (Sorry, TerriAnn, I'm not sure I can make it this weekend.) So, it took me about 50 minutes to get from my place in San Francisco to Scotty's in Concord. When I got to Scotty's, the Brownies were still fairly liquid. (Had it been a college dorm, spoons would have been whipped out before you could say "raw cookie dough".) The side closest to the engine seemed to be closest to being fully cooked. I think another 20-30 minutes would do the trick. (Getting stuck in traffic would just about do it, I think.) I used one of those disposable aluminium loaf pans you can buy at any grocery store. I paid $1.79 for 3 of them. I mixed up the batter, then poured it into the pan. The pan slid right in (with a little coercion) between the carburetor and the top of the engine on top of the exhaust manifold. It worked great, and would work for lasagna, spaghetti, just about anything. Or, get a non-disposable one, and wire it in, then just toss your ready-made burrito (wrapped in foil, of course) in to the pan and don't worry about it going anywhere. Sure makes me wish I drove more! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 03:34:18 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 01:23:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Michael Carradine Subject: First Oil Change on New Disco To: Harry Greenspun Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Congratulations on your new Discovery purchase!! Regarding synthetic engine oil, I use Castrol Syntec 5W50 religiously. The viscosity range exceeds the 10W40 and 15W40 recommendations by your dealer. It's available here at Price/Costco for about $24 per case of 6 qts. (Cheap insurance if it helps the engine live longer!) Also consider replacing the gear oil with synthetic, such as Redline 75W90. I replaced the oil in the 8 - 10 odd places of my Series III (gear box, transfer case, overdrive, rear and front differential, left and right swivel ball housing, steering box and steering relay box) and it definitely runs quieter --less friction!! Since were on the subject of vital Rover Fluids, consider using silicone in the brake and hydraulic clutch systems instead of the Girling brake fluid. Silicone brake fluid does not absorb air (cause of mushy brakes) or water (cause of metallic corrosion), is less susceptible to heat (as in heavy braking), and is chemically compatible with synthetic rubber seals, etc. Also note that regular brake fluid can take off body paint, while silicone will not. Redline also has Silicone Brake Fluid, as the brand name implies, this technology comes from racing, their products have been used and tested in extreme environments for years. [Redline (510-228-7576), 3450 Pacheco Blvd., Martinez, CA 94553 USA] --Michael cs@crl.com Michael Carradine Carradine Studios / Architecture Development Planning NCARB RIBA PO Box 99, Orinda, CA 94563 USA Vmail 510-945-5000 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 05:11:18 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Daily Digest In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 07 Oct 94 07:55:24 BST." <199410070655.HAA06091@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 06:05:07 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > Being the loving owner that I am, I intend to change the oil after the >first 1000 miles (which will be momentarily). I have been persuaded by >the rec.autos.tech crowd to go with synthetic. If you've got only a thousand miles on it, then you should not have been winding it out, and you've not yet completed breakin. Sure the rings and stuff have seated, but there is going to be some more breakin when you start to wind it out and really load it up. Generically, I've been told not to use synthetics until the vehicle was up to 5000 to 7500 miles. (One at 1500, one at 4500, then synthetic at 7500, etc.) If your engine is not well broken in, and you go to synthetics, some unwanted things can happen. Most of the stories are a bit dated now 'cause they're from the introduction of synthetics in the early eighties, but on the engine side I doubt Rover is shipping pickled & race-ready engines. > What's the best weight to >use? The dealer suggested 10W40 or 15W40, but the only synthetic I can >find is either 5W30, 10W30, or 15W50 If you go way north in the winter the 5 or 10w30 may be one for you, if you're going out to Moab or death valley in the next 25000 miles then you'll probably want to consider the 15W50. YMMV. Failing a positive answer to 'will you experience extremes of temperature', coin tossing works well for this type of question. :-) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 07:20:24 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 08:19:01 EDT From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) To: lro@team.net Subject: Re: Synthetic Oils Status: RO LRO@team: Commenting on automotive mechanics is very dangerous for me (since I know less than nothing). However, I am interested in this subject, so I thought I'd fish for comments/expertise on the net. A lot of my info below comes from _Drive_It_Forever_. > Generically, I've been told not to use synthetics until the vehicle was up > to 5000 to 7500 miles. (One at 1500, one at 4500, then synthetic at 7500, > etc.) One of the supposed advantages of synthetic oils is that they allow you to really go the "recommended" service interval (7500 miles for the Disco) between oil changes. I gather that's because synthetic oils don't "break down" (whatever that means) as easily as natural ones. It seems like another reason to change oil more frequently, though, is driving in dusty environments (e.g. off-road). In fact, the author of Drive It Forever (I wish I could remember his name), recommends an oil change immediately after driving on a dirt road, no matter the mileage. I can't speak for anyone else, but my Disco goes off-road fairly frequently. I can't really afford to change the oil and filter every other week, though. The most reasonable compromise to me is to change the oil every 2500 miles, whether the oil is natural or synthetic. At that interval, I'm not sure synthetic makes sense. Right now, I think I'll go with plain old 10W40. Comments? BTW, I can second Bill's suggestion to stick with natural oil for the first oil change. The mechanic that gave my Disco the once-over (I bought it used), said I could consider synthetic, but NOT for the first (and really the first two) oil changes, which he recommended at 1500 and 4500 miles. _____________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom (404-514-3522) email: sat@eng.tridom.com, attmail!tridom!sat From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 07:39:16 1994 Date: 07 Oct 94 08:27:47 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: Rover V8s: EPROMS Status: RO Mike Fredette remarked: > <...snip...snip...> ... but L1000 seems a bit steep for an exhaust system. > 'rather' , as the English would say... I went quite the other way when recently rebuilding a V8 EFi from an 87' Range I literally 'carried away' at another one of those groovy bancruptcy auctions of assets from a defaulted company (ok, I confess, I'm a scavenger for Rovers...). For pistons, I ordered the set with the *lower* compression ratio, actually stripping 12hp from the original power rating (an anathema, I suppose, to the average american motorist?!). The desired effect of this is that it can run on low-octane lead-free regular (the price gap between regular and super in Europe is *considerable*, and what they sell you as 'super' in eastern european countries I wouldn't even put in my petrol camping lantern...). At the same time it increases the cubics slightly (approx. 0.3 l), yielding more low-down torque which in my case comes in handy as I have no inhibitions taking the Range on hard offroad-runs. Besides, having grown up with an old VW bus and a 4-cyl. 109, anything above 100hp is heavens to me ... Stefan <100043.2400@CompuServe.com> LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 11:22:58 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:12:47 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: 90 hard top Status: RO In message writes: > TerriAnn says to take off the roll bar from the NAS 90's and slap a > regular hard top on. > > great idea, except that the NAS 90 has no bulkhead behind the seat and > the roll bar is designed to be an integral part of the vechile. > > Great idea though TerriAnn, good lateral thinking. > > regards > > Robin Robin, The 109 four door does not have a bulkhead behind the seat ether. Bulkheads behind the seat are necessary for pickup tops but not full hard tops. I'm making the assumption that Rover took a Defender 90 and added things for the North American Spec. I don't see why you can't undo a little of the add on and end up with a body that can take a standard Defender 90 hard top. I guess I'll have to stop at a dealer to see what the big deal is about the roll bar. Wings are supposed to be an integral part of the car too, but you can unbolt them and drive around just fine. My latest lateral thinking has to do with camper pop up tops. It has been drought to my attention that the fiberglass pop up tops on Doormobiles are the same as was used on the pre-1968 VW camper vans. I'm finding myself wondering if the vertical pop up top on post-'68 VW campervans would fit the top of a 109. I'll measure my 109 Sat when I go to visit (begining to feel like a divorced parent who does not have child custidy). There is a VW campervan for sale near my house. I'll put the tape to that on the way. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 11:58:34 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:53:23 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: disc brake squeaking Status: RO The thread on synthetic oils etc reminded me of the other semi-fluidic substances used to stop disc brakes from squeaking. After I replaced the pads on my RR, I have had this proble. On the front ones, which I did first, I put some Permatex anti-squeak stuff, but they squeaked anyway. So I asked the local dealer what they use, and they said "nothing". So when I did the rear ones, I used nothing, and they squeal too. In both cases I used the Land Rover Genuine Parts (asbestos pads -- yuk!) Any insight on this would be appreciated. Many thanks John Brabyn California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 12:05:42 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 09:58:39 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: synthetic oils Status: RO I have observed the synthetic oil phenomenon as it has developed, and have these questions: 1. If it's so great, why isn't it used and specified by the engine manufacturers in new vehicles? 2. The question of expense aside, is it really going to preserve my aging engine (90,000 miles)? (I should note that the said engine already uses more than its share of oil). Cheers John Brabyn Mill Valley Ca 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 12:08:20 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 94 10:04:51 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: lro@team.net Subject: Oil Consumption Status: RO The fairly consistently high oil consumption of my 3.9V8 is a bit disturbing. It has used at least a quart per 1,000 miles ever since I got it at 50,000 miles. I noticed someone said that excessive consumption on a new Discovery was due to leaking inlet valve guides or seals. How does one tell if this is the cause, or if heavy duty stuff like piston/cylinder/rings is at fault?? (The vehicle now has over 90,000 miles on it). I'd be interested in any advice. John Brabyn Mill Valley California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 14:30:15 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:24:52 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: John Hong/C/HQ/3Com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Welcome to California Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO John Hong writes: >I've just moved to California (Bay area) and I was not able to make the rally >this year. :( >Looking forward to meeting the CA rover folks! > Welcome to California, John, we will be looking forward to meeting you too! If you are ever going to head up 101 from the Bay area, let me know and I'll tell you how to find my place in Redwood Valley, not far off 101, and you're welcome any time! ;-) This goes for anyone else on the list, as well, of course. 8-} ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 14:31:43 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 12:25:36 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Koenig Winch For Sale Status: RO I wish to announce that I have the following item for sale: Koenig winch, 9,000#, engine driven, for Land-Rover, $600 or reasonable offer. The winch is, as I understand it, a 9,000# model (and appears to be designed for 3/8" cable). It was last installed on an 86" Series I and was removed from that vehicle when sold, about 1970 or 1971. Since then it has been stored indoors. It is complete with all controls, etc. and is in very good condition. It has a roller fairlead but no cable. It lacks only the simple drive piece which replaces the starter dog on the front of the engine. I believe that this part can still be obtained from Koenig (in Texas, which still manufatures fire pumping equipment) or can easily be fabricated. It has all the rest of the drive apparatus. I did some digging in old Aluminum Workhorse issues and elsewhere to try to find some guidance as to the price that I should get for this beast. I found nothing, only people looking for them. The only asking prices for these I can ever remember having seen were Kellog-the-Corn-Flake's prices, so not much of a guide (well over $1,000, if I remember correctly). My feeling is that it should be worth somewhere around $550 to $600, considering that it is minus the drive piece and has no winch cable, and considering that I traded a new Fairey overdrive for it. I have had it for about eight years but have not installed it. I have offered it first to a couple of Land-Rover owners who had previously expressed an interest in it. So far, I have not gotten replies from either of them, so I am offering it to anyone who may be interested. I would not be considering selling it except that I need the cash, as quickly as I can raise it. Therefore, for this item, I am not interested in trades. Thanks! Reply to Granville Pool or call (707)463-4265 (work, between 8:15 and 4:30 or so, M-F, or (707) 485-7220 (home). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) L-Rs: 4-88" 1-80" + Austin Champ 4x4] [ e-mail to: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Phone: (707) 485-7220 ] [ Net-Rovers leave a trail of mud & oil on the information superhighway! ] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 16:01:09 1994 Date: 07 Oct 94 16:51:29 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Please Repost for Taylor Sutherland III Status: RO On 4 Oct C Taylor Sutherland III wrote: >> The people that were importing the LR's that were due the 4th OCT. I got the mail but in attempts to save it, the editor ate it. I would like an address, so I can decide because.....>> Here is the info! 24 hr Pager 011-44-81-3456789 (quote ATH 60, leave message and we will call you back) Fax 011-44-51-707-2075 US# Oct 22-30 508-385-6632 We are currently shipping a refurbed Series II, due in New York October 20th. I am also arriving into New York that Friday and will be driving the Land Rover to Cape Cod. It is currently for sale, and if you are anywhere in the area and would like to view the vehicle, send me an email. Here are the details: An 88" refurbed short wheel base (1960) Series II a.k.a. " Gyndwr " (Glendower)-chassis excellent. Genuine bronze green (enamel paint) body, limestone top and wheels. Recently reconditioned 2.25 liter petrol engine. New clutch, battery, oil pump, road springs, brake pipes, shock absorbers, Solex carburettor, etc. Spare tire on bonnet with (new) Land Rover logo tire cover. All new heavy duty grey carpeted interior throughout, fully soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, heater, headliner and interior side trim , 2 rear spotlights, (5) 600X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps. 7 seater - all new deluxeLand Rover black front seats (3 in front) with 2 new inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber seals on all doors. Rear Safari door. Hand throttle. Antenna - wired for radio. New front door tops/bottoms and footwells. Rear wire lamp guards. Tow hitched front and rear, with rear wiring. more... New workshop manual (still sealed) & parts catalogues supplied. $8400 including all shipping/duties/etc- open to offers. Beginning refurbishment 88' short wheel base (1968) Series IIa Military a.k.a "Guinness" - Chassis excellent. High gloss black (enamel) and gold trimed hard top-bringing it right down to bare metal and new paint to be applied soon. 45,000 miles - recon diesel. All new doors and footwells. Spare tire on bonnet with (new) Land Rover logo tire cover. All new heavy duty grey carpeted interior throughout (optional) , soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, Wraparound bullbar with 2 front spotlights, (5) 600 or 750 X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps. 7 seater - two black bucket seats w/ headrestswith standard middle seat in front, with 2 new inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber seals on all doors. Drop down tailgate with removeable hardtop swinging door. Military pick and shovel fitted. Radio/speakers installed. New front door tops/bottoms and footwells. Rear tow hitch with wiring. Heater. more.... New workshop manual (still sealed) & parts catalogues supplied. Several 109" long wheel base Series II Safari station wagon. Chassis excellent. Totally reconditioned engine and gearbox. Tropical Roof with arctic windows. Refurbishment to begin soon. Many of the same above features. 1956 fire tender in pristine condition. Only 3000 miles. Fire engine red. 200 gallon a minute pump on rear with two tall side lockers (great utility truck) Drives beautifully. All seals, gaskets tires etc new. Just released from factory service. Inside factory for entire life. Really fun, but also very functional utility vehicle. Like new. If you are interested in seeing the 88" send me an email...... Cheers, Leslie Stutsman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 16:10:55 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 15:58:06 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil Consumption To: John Brabyn Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410071704.AA18293@skivs.ski.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO John, you can usually tell if the seals on your valves are bad by seeing if you get a puff of blue smoke just when you start up your vehicle. What happens is, because the seal is poor, oil runs down the stem of the valve into the combustion chamber. When you first fire up that chamber, the oil is burned creating smoke. The second and subsequent operations don't have any oil to burn so the engine runs clean. It is a very simple job to replace them. The best way is to use air pressure applied through the spark plug hole to keep the valve up while you take off the spring and retaining clip. The seal is just a little rubber umbrella with a tiny spring in it that goes around the shank of the valve. You can pull off the old one and put a new one on in a few minutes. I haven't tried it but my friends tell me that in place of the air pressure method, you can put small diameter rope in the chamber through the spark plug hole and turn the piston up to the valve with the crank or by turning the flywheel with a bar. I guess it would work fine. Just keep a piece of the rope outside the spark plug hole to retrieve it :-) or you might have to have a bon-fire to get it out. You don't have to take off the heads or anything to do this job. Only loosen off the rocker arms and go to it. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 8 01:51:21 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: traceable wiring From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 07 Oct 94 20:05:06 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Thought this would interest those of you contemplating a rebuild. Western Star, a BC based class 8 truck company uses traceable wiring on all of its trucks. That is to say that if you look in the manuals for say the left rear stop light it will tell you that that wire is lablelld zz23. So anywhere you go on the truck, in the frame , in the harness, that you find zz23 printed onto the wire, as all their wires have individual labelliing printed onto them , you have found the left rear brake light wire. So neat and so simple eh! ttfn, of to see mickey ,hope to spot soem Lr product down south Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 21:45:53 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:33 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: burns@cisco.com, leefi@microsoft.com Subject: Re: Rover V8s: cold and confused Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO >jjj> >> Today I just got new ROMs updated on all the electronics, hoping this will >> help reduce this problem (I'm trying to find out the "buglist" this ROM >> updates). >> >Can you forward me more info on the Prom updates. >Price? >How many Roms it takes to run a Rover.? >Do you notice any difference? > >Are these the 20MPG version. > >We are also supposed to have another cold winter, and if this >would help, it sure would be easier than drying plugs out at -30 > > >Russ > >Off to Va. for the Rover Rally But most importantly -- Do these ROM's include Tetris?!? (Sorry, I couldn't resist.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 21:47:04 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:36 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: dushinrg@pr.cyanamid.com, maloney@wings.attmail.com Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO >> >> Steven asks: >> >> >> >> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > >> meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > >> (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of > this, >> but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) > maybe >> you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > >> encouraged). >> >> > >Bill replies: > >> When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > >> bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if > I >> turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). >> >> At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip > and >> one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. > If >> I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off > in a >> flash. :-) > > >Nigel's left parking light flashes. Bang hard on the wing and it's on for >good (it does turn off when you shut down the lights). Perhaps he's just a >little ahead of his time. > >rd/nigel Oh come on! This is Lucas, we're talking about. The parking lights are supposed to flash *all* the time! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 7 21:47:10 1994 Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 19:39:44 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Rover/HP diagnostics system.. Status: RO >> Last September, Rover introduced yet another subcompact. It has >> four wheels and a power supply, but does not look or feel any- >> thing like an MG. Its grey sheet-metal chassis contains a 486 >> microprocessor, a custom instrument board, a LAN card, a CD-ROM >> reader and a 120 MB hard disk drive. This rugged analytical >> computer connects to a DeskJet printer and supports a flat-panel >> display. >Ah, but what's the badge on the front? > >(If it's Land Rover, can I get one for my my PC? :} > > > ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 >Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. >WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ > Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ >#======================================================================# >I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do >Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. Heck, can I get one for my HP3000??? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 8 11:42:26 1994 Date: Sat, 8 Oct 94 12:34:09 EDT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: jory@MIT.EDU (jory bell) Subject: Electric Land Rover specs sought Status: RO >Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 09:15:40 -0700 >Reply-To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >Sender: Electric Vehicle Discussion List >From: Richard A Childers >Subject: Electric Land Rover specs sought >X-To: EV%SJSUVM1.BITNET@cmsa.Berkeley.EDU >To: Multiple recipients of list EV > >"Date: Thu, 6 Oct 1994 09:39:03 -0700 > From: Bob Rickard > Subject: Re: EV friendly/unfriendly insurance companies > >"Our electric 1971 Land Rover is insured through Safeco. They asked what > components were used and wanted a photo of the vehicle. Standard policy, > no problems." > > >Well, heck. Land Rovers are well nigh unto indestructible ... (-: > > >I've occasionally eyed Land Rovers as candidates for conversion. Does >anyone know what the curb weight, minus ICE, is of one of those beasts ? > >It certainly has the suspension and cubic for a good number of batteries. >With the energy density of batteries bound to increase in the next years, >this is not an impossible dream. > >The flat roof would make a good mounting surface for solar cells, such that >the vehicle could ostensibly recharge ( albeit, not very quickly ) just by >sitting in the sun. Or you could carry more cells inside ... assemble them, >and charge the car over a few days' time, while camping ( and drawing off >judicious amounts of power for lighting and communications, perhaps ). And >there's always the generator on a trailer or tucked in under the hood ... > >Now, _that_ would make a vehicle to cross the United States in, and write >a book about. You could even carry towing equipment, and give stranded cars >a tow to the next gas station. (-: > > >-- richard > > "I gathered I wasn't very well liked. Somehow, the feeling pleased me." > _Nine Princes In Amber_, by Roger Zelazny > > richard childers san francisco, california pascal@netcom.com >Electric Land Rover specs sought > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 8 15:03:39 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: caloccia@lectroid.sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: silicone BF Date: Sat, 08 Oct 94 16:00:23 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Most SCCA racers (IT sedans, etc.) I know *don't* use it. There is the purpose-formulated AP 550 and the AP 600, which you'd have to change before every race, though the club racers say the hot ticket is Mercedes Brake Fluid or the Ford Heavy Duty Break Fluid - both are high boiling point and relatively atmosphere-stable so they don't need to change the fluid just 'cause its sat for a week. [Of course, to my knowledge, neither is compatible with natural rubber seals as L/R owners are familiar with.] Those gear-head drivers I know who have tried it have not liked it, 'cause the silicone, (new or used) is slightly more compressible, and to them it gives an unacceptable 'spongy' feel. On the other hand a mechanic friend of mine recommends and regularly installs silicone in his customer's cars for the low-maintenance qualities - and since it doesn't absorb water, things won't rust from the inside out. I always used the Ford stuff in the 'stang and the XR4, the 'stang was done done just before BMW driver's schools (usually once in the spring, and once in the fall. Before going to higher spec fluid I would have liked to have milled the face of the rotor (a concentric circle or crossed lines in the surface of the rotor will provide the surface of the brake pads gets fresh air twice+ times per revolution). When you get down to it, most of the time improvements in braking will come from keeping the brake materials cool (hence milled -> vented -> cross drilled rotors, with ducting and vaned wheels that suck the air out). YP(ad)W(ear)MV I used Castrol LMA in everything else. Somewhere early on I learned what colour brake fluid was supposed to be, and recall reading that it ought to be flushed at not more than 2-year intervals. How hydro-scopic the LMA was didn't matter on my decade-old '78 honda wagon, 'cause most of the brake parts were rusting from the outside-in, so that inevitably got updated yearly, if not more often :~& Amazingly enough what's in the resivoir of my IIa is still clear and doesn't appear contaminated after a couple years (low mileage though it may be). As for this RR, where did I put the mity-vac ? Of course, if you haven't done the conversion to silicone before, you should note that normal brake fluid is considered a contaminant to silicone, so you've got to flush all that old stuff out, before you can start loading up the silicone. Sounds like a bunch of work eh ? No wonder my mechanic friend recommends it to his customers... Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 9 18:35:51 1994 From: JFisk1120@aol.com Sender: "JFisk1120" To: lro@team.net Date: Sun, 09 Oct 94 19:29:12 EDT Subject: Survey says..................... Status: RO Just received the latest issue of "Industry Week" which includes an article titled "Hot Wheels for Big Wheels". In the $20,000 to $30,000 range, top executives are choosing the Land Rover Discovery (beating out the Jeep Grand Cherokee and the Ford Explorer). They feel that executives choose with both high quality and relatively low cost in mind. The picture of the Discovery tire high in mud doesn't quite fit the "suit" image, but who cares....maybe they are smarter than we think! Just let me know where I can get a Discovery for under $30,000 this year! Jan Fisk "I brake for mud puddles" Springfield, Missouri 1964 Land Rover Series IIA 1991 Range Rover From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 05:47:32 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Land Rover on Film..Again. To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 11:42:50 BST Status: RO OK,so you've all seen it before."White Hunter,Black Heart". Clint Eastwood et al.On Channel Four TV (UK) last night. Apart from an immaculate Dakota (DC3,to you),the Land Rover content was *much* better than the plot.(Plot? ummmmm). Made,according to the credits,in Zimbabwe,there was a S1 107 station wagon,minus door tops,a 107" pickup,several 80/86/88" S1,a white 109" station wagon,with a *very* modern looking roofrack,what looked like an ex mil open 109 S11, and the star of the film(Eastwood?whose he?)was a topless S11,or 11A two door 109",sans doors.In fact the camera crew obviously got bored with the film.The 109 was filmed posing against the sunset(lovely shot,that),interior shots over the dashboard abounded,ther were Land Rovers posing everywhere. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 10:35:05 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 08:28:32 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: New L.R. Discovery... 1st 5 days. Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: New L.R. Discovery... 1st 5 days. Hello all, It's now been 5 days since I picked up my new truck. And I can now say that I have my "official Arizona desert brush pinstripes." (OUCH!!!) Also, first tank of gas: 12 Miles per gallon, and $27 WOW! First "sticker shock", then "pump shock". Guess I've never really had to use premium before. ;-) Oh well, that's what credit carcards are for... right??? Anyway... I still LOVE the truck, but have some questions for you "all". What type of wax or..??? can I use to help prevent brush scratching? Where can I get a "Tracker/Lojack" (Locates vehicle if stolen)? #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 10:52:20 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 11:49:24 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Sender: Harry Greenspun Reply-To: Harry Greenspun Subject: Disco Fuel Economy better than expected! To: Land Rover BBS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Length: 386 Status: RO Although I, too, was afraid of the Disco's gas mileage, we have been pleasently surprised. After being tipped off by the owners manual that the engine is most fuel-efficient between 2000 and 3000 rpm, we have been very attentive to the tach. Consequently, we have managed 16 in mixed driving, and over 19 mpg on the highway. Thank God for that 5-speed. Peppy, too. Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 19:09:51 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: FYI: AOL (America On-Line) is selling their subscriber list Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 19:02:19 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Reply-to: /dev/null And from what I understand, when you signed up they asked you all kinds of questions - like your income, what kind of computer you have, etc. Not to mention they've built up their own little payment history on you... See the latest comp.risks digest or go find the front page of the buiness section of the San Jose Mercury today (5 Oct 1994). Don't for get the address of the Direct Mail Marketing Association, to request that your name be taken out of circulation... Cheers, -B From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 19:48:25 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 00:44:06 GMT From: kjartan@ejs.is (Kjartan) To: jory@figment.mit.edu Subject: Oil pressure and synthetic oil Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Hi Jory, did you get any reply's regarding the oil warning light coming on at idle? My Range Rover '85 is doing the same thing all of a sudden. Slow idle, warm engine light goes on, apply a little gas and it goes off. Im also using synthetic oil and Im a tad worried as well. If somebody gave you an "inexpensive" B^) explanation please forward it to me. Regards Kjartan Bergsson Iceland kjartan@ejs.is From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 20:17:43 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 94 19:13:35 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Rovers-TV and Things Status: RO Since nobody has mentioned it yet, I don't think, a Range Rover finally showed up on Northern Exsposure. I have watched the show since it started and this is the first. It was BRG, four door. Looked to be brand new and Maurice, one of the main characters had it. He was trying to impress a lady of minor Brit Royal blood. Rover was great, Maurice blew a chance at some in-door camping with the lady. Oh well! Enough RR jazz. I am close to putting the head back on my 69 21/4. When I took it apart, like a good boy, all of the head bolts went in a piece of cardboard in the location they came from. However one of my fine black felines decided that that cardboard served a better pourpose on the floor. Now the bolts are mixed up and of differnt lengths. I can't find a ref. as to which goes where. Help!! Roy - Rovers in the Rockies -What Class III oil leak, Sir? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 10 21:48:03 1994 Date: Mon, 10 Oct 1994 21:29:31 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil pressure and synthetic oil To: Kjartan Cc: jory@figment.mit.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410110044.AAA01795@soho.ejs.is> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Before you get to excited about the low oil pressure, I would check the sender and I would put a "real" indicator on the oil galley line. The sensors are often not very accurate. Most times they fail to come on when the pressure drops, but from time to time they come on too soon. Only a good analogue gauge will tell you what is really happening. I have seen American cars that according to their instruction books, can have the oil light come on at idle and this indicates nothing in particular. It must however go out at higher speed to form the lubrication wedge and take away heat at the bearings. I think the old LRs could drop to 15 pounds at about 800 RPM without too much to worry about. At 2000 however under load they better be something like 50 lbs or you have a problem. Mine after I rebuilt it to specs and I used platigauge runs at about 65 lbs at speed and never drops below 50 even when really hot. Like some other owners however, when I do a panic stop, the pressure can drop to near 5 pounds for in instant on the indicator. I know this doesn't mean anything in particular because you can hear the valve train in an engine once it starves for oil. Mine is always quiet except on start up when I get valve noise for about 5 seconds. For peace of mind have a mechanic put a pressure gauge on the engine or better yet, take the valve covers off and see if the oil is sqirting out. It it is getting to the top of the engine, it is getting to the bottom. The only time this rule doesn't hold true is if you have a plugged galley, but in a new engine that is about as likely as winning the Loto :-). One thing people using the synthetics should find out is, does mixing synthetic and ordinary oil cause sludge. Some oils are not compatible and they form a waxy substance. This shouldn't hurt the engine particularly, but it might plug up a galley after time or plug a pressure hole in a gauge etc. Cheers Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 02:23:44 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 02:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rallye To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Been there, seen it, got the T-shirt. You know, I never realized until I got home that the T-shirt says "Rallye, Meet, BBQ and Storm". Well folks, it was all of that and more. I had a great time, even if I couldn't bring my Rover. Hat's off to Sandy and all the folks in the ROAV for putting on a first-rate get-together. There was something for everyone, including some fine off-roading that wasn't on the official list of events. There is something about that Virginia red clay and a little water. Great mud! Lot's of folks from all over with all kinds of interesting Rovers. One of you guys who knows how to write probably tallied it all up but I think there were around 60 trucks - including an incredible 80 inch RHD Ser I. No,no, it wasn't restored and shiney but it ran and preformed flawlessly and did a much better demonstration of what a Land-Rover should be than any of the Disco's or Defenders did. The owner say's it's for sale too - but why he would want to sell it is beyond me. Some fellow netters were there - possibly some future ones too. Oh, Dixon... thought you were going to go?? OK, so it *was* the Canadian Thanksgiving holiday but Tom, Brett and Dave from Toronto showed up. :) Ben (of Bill and Ben go up a creek fame) was there and proved he could do some real off-roading. Bill Maloney was there too. Thats all from me. Oh.. Sandy.. let's do this again next year.. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 03:42:10 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 03:11:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Things To: sinasohn@crl.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"sinasohn@crl.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Here we go again... > >> Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > > > >> meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > > > >> (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of > > this, And then we added our humorous comments... So.. While at the Mid-Atlantic Rallye, I had the chance to pose this question to a Disco owner. (Does John Travolta own a disco?) Really, I had nothing better to do and here was this bloke and his lady sitting on the back end with the door open, eating something so I walked up and asked if thier lights flashed three times. They gave me this look.. you know, like I'm the four-wheeler from hell (OK, I was a *bit* mud spattered), and then the gentleman says "well, yes" and proceeds to demonstrate. Sure enough, they flash. We stood around and chewed the fat for a while longer and all of a sudden, the dome lite in the Disco dims out. Lucas strikes again? Nope, they planned it that way. Ye Gods. With all this techo-whatsis, how do you tell if the bloody thing works correctly?? I give up. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 04:09:54 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 10:06:33 --100 From: ketil@tvnorge.no (Ketil Kirkerud) To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Rovers-TV and Things X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1057 Status: RO > From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) > I am close to putting the head back on my 69 21/4. When > I took it apart, like a good boy, all of the head bolts > went in a piece of cardboard in the location they came > from. However one of my fine black felines decided that > that cardboard served a better pourpose on the floor. > Now the bolts are mixed up and of differnt lengths. I can't > find a ref. as to which goes where. Help!! Shouldn't be too much of a problem ? There are three lengths : The shortest ones go on the right hand side of the engine (by the spark-plugs) The long ones go through the "legs" of the rocker-arm assembly, the rest, well... Go where there's space for them. The most important thing to get back in original position are the pushrods, these should be put in a piece of cardboard for safekeeping.. (If you're keeping the old lifters/rocker-arms/pushrods, that is). ---Ketil -------------------------------------------------------- Ketil Kirkerud Lillebil TVNorge A/S 1979 109" Petrol SW. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 08:00:44 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Rallye To: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 8:56:45 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <01HI4UETZ0RO9D688J@delphi.com>; from "LANDROVER@delphi.com" at Oct 11, 94 2:38 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Mike Lo-hangin-dice writes: > Oh, Dixon... thought you were going to go?? OK, so it *was* the Canadian > Thanksgiving holiday but Tom, Brett and Dave from Toronto showed up. :) > Ben (of Bill and Ben go up a creek fame) was there and proved he could do > some real off-roading. Bill Maloney was there too. Boy, now I don't feel so bad (as I didn't quite make the trip either). My excuse(s)? Well, the following are true statements: a) I had to move b) the li'l woman was helping me (and she came from Boston to do so) c) Nigel wanted to go d) we were in peak foliage season e) browns are running on the esopus f) Dixon told me he was going. The following are false statements: a) I didn't want to go b) I didn't want my Tee (is it still available?) c) I hate BBQ chicken d) I had monday off e) Dixon told me he wasn't going Dixon?? Oh, Dixon............? CAN we (both) say W - I - M - P? rd/nigel (he's pissed at me!) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 08:11:03 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Oil pressure To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 9:08:00 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: ; from "David John Place" at Oct 10, 94 9:29 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO DJP writes: > starves for oil. Mine is always quiet except on start up when I get valve > noise for about 5 seconds. For peace of mind have a mechanic put a Does anyone know if there are spin-on oil filters available for LRs that have the small rubber one-way valve attached to them (like BMWs...sorry folks) that keep the oil in the filter when the motor is off and thereby prevent the "no oil in the system at startup" phenonmenon from occurring? They work great. just wondering, rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 11:32:03 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 11:01:03 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO Back from the rally now, and I hope all of you 'Netters had a good time. (One hell of a lot of work...and by just three people, mind you...went into it). Though I have known Bill Maloney for years, it was good to meet the other faces behind the sig-blocks: Jeff Berg, Ben Smith, Russ Burns, Jon Humphrey, Keith Steele, Andrew Steele (surely you guys are related somewhere) and .... (am I forgetting anyone? It was a hectic weekend for me.) Several others 'netters sent their regards/regrets with suitable excuses...but where was Dixon?!? A goodly contingent from OVLR did make it down (attracted no doubt by the free beer, incidentally a keg of tasty dark ale and one of pilsner from "Legendary Brewing"), but Mr. Kenner and his Saab were not to be found. The rally had 86 registered Rover vehicles, plus a few more from the dealership/LRNA and one chap with a double score who towed in a IIa 109 behind his Range Rover, so there were probably 95+ Rovers on site (not counting Mike's significant parts car fleet). I'll leave a description of the event to the other folks. Despite the fact that we were dealing with a large group of Rover owners (some of the most independent-thinking folks on the face of the earth) everything went off on schedule...including the promised rain storm. The Highs and the Lows: We already know about Sunday lunch. As the rally was really out in the sticks away from convenience stores/fast food restaurants/civilization in general, we catered the meals. While the Saturday BBQ was great, the Sunday lunch and dinner (done by the next door neighbor lady) were questionable. Obviously out of her depth, it won't happen again. The sounds of the bluegrass band wafting across the fields Saturday evening were most pleasant, while the teeter-totter on Sunday was a real crowd pleaser...and I hope you all had fun on the poker run/road rally (the directions were spot-on, so if you had trouble, consider yourself geographically-challenged). For those not familiar with a poker run, particiapnts are given a route card of instructions, picking up cards from separate decks at each stop. (The winner had a queen-high straight flush!) And I think Ben Smith had fun fetching all of those Range Rovers out of the mud bog with his 88. (There for a while, we were accumulating a sizeable pile of RR air dams and bumper end caps.) It was interesting to note that the fastest time through the trials course was also in the oldest vehicle...an SI 80". For those of you who wanted event T-shirts (and these are truly spectacular w/ a six color image), we have a *FEW* left. XL and XXL only. $15 plus another $2 for postage. To make it fair, first postmarked letters received within a week's time will get 'em. Other checks will be returned. If you have some other (constructive) thoughts, contact me directly to save bandwidth space; we are already planning next year's event. As the insurance floater (obtained and contributed by LRNA at significant cost) runs for a callendar year, the rally will probably be one week earlier so's we can get two year's coverage for the price of one. If any of you have some good photos...I'd like to have a copy....I didn't have time to take a single one. I'll also try to get out a special edition of "The Gearbox" sometime soon. Also, look for a feature in LRO, as Jim Allen (the "Stateside Beat" columnist) was taking photos/notes throughout. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 12:28:25 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 10:26:07 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Disco Fuel Economy better than expected! Status: RO That's pretty good -- I get about the same on the highway but only 12-15 in mixed driving in my RR with the same engine. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 12:48:18 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 10:39:37 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: kjartan@ejs.is, umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA Subject: Re: Oil pressure and synthetic oil Cc: jory@figment.mit.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Status: RO Yes from my experience if any warning light comes on, it's at least a 50% chance it's the sensor at fault, due to the electrical excellence of our friends at Lucas Industries. John Brabyn Mill Valley California 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 13:50:13 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:47:26 +0200 (METDST) From: S|ren Vels Christensen Subject: Dark (Re: Flashing) Rover Things To: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410061410.KAA23743@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On Thu, 6 Oct 1994, Russell G. Dushin wrote: > > > > Steven asks: > > > > >> > > Would any of you be (or know) an owner of an early U.S. Disco? By early, I > > meanpurchased in April or possibly May. If so, do the parking lights flash > > (three times) when you lock the vehicle?... I realize the triviality of this, > > but (1) when I get curious about something I can go overboard, and (2) maybe > > you Series II owners can get a chuckle at my expense (i.e. humorous replies > > encouraged). > > >> > > Bill replies: > > > When I purchased my IIA, my parking lights wouldn't flash. I changed some > > bulbs and they still wouldn't flash. I fixed the ground wiring and now if I > > turn the switch on and off real quick they flash :-). > > > > At the last ABP rally I took several passengers along on the off road trip and > > one or 2 did a lot of flashing. I thought we were going to get arrested. If > > I thought the tailgate latches might not have held I would have taken off in a > > flash. :-) > > > Nigel's left parking light flashes. Bang hard on the wing and it's on for > good (it does turn off when you shut down the lights). Perhaps he's just a > little ahead of his time. > > rd/nigel About a week ago i was about to leave from a night shift and go home. When i turned the key the cabin was illuminated from the fusebox. I used up my two spare 35A fuses. When i started the exhaust broke right in front of the silencer. So i had to drive home without indicators and brakelights and announcing my coming at 110db. A G-III was taking off and i couldn't hear it. Two days later i found out that the brake light circuit was burning the fuse. And also i fixed the hazard light by accident :-o New silencer and rear pipe: Kr. 167.- (about 20 pounds incl. VAT). I can live with that. But i havent yet found the fault in the brake lights. I have some time to do that because my brother had knee surgery when Lawrence failed. I'm borrowing his '73 88" until he's ready to drive again :-) later +----------------------------+--------------------------------+ | Soren Vels | 1976 sIII 109" 2.25 petrol | | velssvch@inet.uni-c.dk | "Lawrence of Arabia" | ((|||)) | Royal Danish Air Force | Dansk Land-Rover Klub no. 3564 | ((|||)) | Communications Specialist | DL-RK: Approx. 1000 members. | ((|||)) +----------------------------+--------------------------------+__((|||))______ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 13:52:45 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 14:47:04 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Rally redux Status: RO In an earlier posting, I neglected to mention Mike Loiodice who stepped in for the indefatigable Steve Denis, who otherwise, could not attend. Mike, along with Robert Davis, were our tough and surly "scrutineers". Rumor has it though that many a "quick-fix" (a suitably-chilled six of malt beverage presented to the officials) was accomplished in the inspection line. Thanks again, Mike. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 14:23:49 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Mid alantic rally To: lro@stratus.com Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 12:20:11 PDT Status: RO Well, I thought I was going to meet the great land-rover mud god Dixon.... One of the Canadian blokes mentioned that Dixon was going to drive down in his S.O.B.. Now I figured that S.O.B was the name of a rover. But now it seems S.O.B. was really Saab one of them Swedish meat-ball things. Tell me it ain't so....... The mudhole on the course wasn't that bad, one had to try to get stuck in it. I did deposit one of the bumper caps there, making it a matched set. (I lost the other side a year ago) Unfortunately I missed the mud excursions with the fellows from north of the border. It seems there was a good mud bog in the area, and the folks were doing their best to keep it filled with recycled beer. Well it was a fun time, sorry the rest of you couldn't make it and thanks to Sandy, and his two other helpers for a good show. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 18:34:24 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: scratchy notepad To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 11 Oct 94 19:32:52 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Folks- OK, so last sunday night me turns on the tube and searches for the archeology show. Once again I tune in late (this one is on Cambodia-diggin' up ruins in the midst of fourteen year olds with guns and attitudes to match)....but alas, in the closing shots, there is some imposter posing in a land rover-gotta be Sandy Grice's! Nice fresh blue SIII 88 with a sun visor and new rubber on the bonnet. P R E T T Y. BUT, I really gotta know, that notepad thing you've got on your center-divider on your windscreen....can you write on it whilst driving (much less read what you've written before- hand)????? ayeYAP, rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 20:49:34 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 20:44:35 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Oil pressure To: "Russell G. Dushin" Cc: David John Place , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410111307.IAA07000@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Yes this type of filter does exist but you need the spin on oil filter adapter. It is available from ABP I think and someone in Toronto was making them in his home shop at one time and selling them. Dave VE4PNOn Tue, 11 Oct 1994, Russell G. Dushin wrote: > DJP writes: > > starves for oil. Mine is always quiet except on start up when I get valve > > noise for about 5 seconds. For peace of mind have a mechanic put a > > Does anyone know if there are spin-on oil filters available for LRs that > have the small rubber one-way valve attached to them (like BMWs...sorry > folks) that keep the oil in the filter when the motor is off and thereby > prevent the "no oil in the system at startup" phenonmenon from occurring? > They work great. > > just wondering, > rd/nigel From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 20:57:45 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 01:53:48 GMT From: kjartan@ejs.is (Kjartan) To: lro@team.net Subject: RR oil pressure Status: RO Thanks to all that responded to my question regarding oil warning light. I will get the oil pressure mesured and install a real oil pressure gauge. An other thing that bothers me is that the RR has not burnt any oil over 6000 km. May be the synthetic oil is not doing its job properly or the oil rings are to effective in scraping it off the cylinder walls? The engin has covered 130000km (I think, I bought the RR second hand) and the hydraulic lifters tap a little when the engin is hot. Otherwise the engine is doing its job reasonably well, not wery economical though but one shouldnt expect much fuel economy when running on 33x12.5 tires and a three speed auto. Regards Kjartan kjartan@ejs.is From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 11 21:09:18 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 19:05:24 -0700 (PDT) From: LROVER@u.washington.edu Subject: For Sale-Landy Bits... Sender: Land Rover Fanatic! To: lro@team.net X-Envelope-To: lro@team.net X-Vms-To: IN%"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO --------Aux. gas tank "Military Top Fill"-------- All the bits and pcs. to install a second gas tank in place of the tool box under the drivers seat. This includes aux. fuel valve switch and all fuel lines. Half of the parts are new an the rest are used and in good condition. It's only lacking (6) k. This prized posession is now for sale due to "Desparate " need to re-build an engine! It's your's for $395.00 FOB Seattle as allway's first come first served... offers accepted...but cash is needed.. I will carton and ship bestway...ie. cheapest way I can, using my commercial rates if UPS isn't pratical. I can either be reached at LROVER@max.washington.edu or return mail via this message...or FAX-(206)623-9831 Day#(206)623-5460 or night (206)365-3514. Also, anyone with rebuilding of engine experience please give your thoughts...on this subject...:) Sincerely, Benjamin J. Freeman From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 02:51:07 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 90 hard top To: twakeman@apple.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO TeriAnn considers surgery for her 109... > My latest lateral thinking has to do with camper pop up tops. It has been > drought to my attention that the fiberglass pop up tops on Doormobiles are > the > same as was used on the pre-1968 VW camper vans. I'm finding myself > wondering > if the vertical pop up top on post-'68 VW campervans would fit the top of > a 109. > I'm a bit confused TeriAnn.. I have a '71 VW Westfalia and the camper top is hinged at the front. The pre-1968 Westfalias had the top that popped up vertically. As to the Dormobiles, the only VW I've examined up close was a 1970 - and I took a good look at it in comparison to the Westfalia. The Dormobile top is the same design as the one used on the 109 but as to the dimensions, I couldn't say. You probably could adapt the Westfalia fiberglass & canvas to the 109 but the only thing you would gain is a bit of headroom with the top up. The bunk that goes with it is only about 5 1/2 feet long and unless you are short is pretty cramped. Another point to consider is that the Westfalia top is actually two sections.. the hinged front part and a fixed rear part which serves as a small luggage rack and provides for a "weather-tight" seal with the whole mess closed up. Good luck with it, whatever you do. Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 01:12:26 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 00:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: traceable wiring To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Sorry old man, I just can't resist this.. > From: IN%"rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca" 8-OCT-1994 03:00:41.37 > To: IN%"lro@stratus.com" > CC: > Subj: traceable wiring > > Thought this would interest those of you contemplating a rebuild. > > Western Star, a BC based class 8 truck company uses traceable wiring on > all of its trucks. That is to say that if you look in the manuals for say > the left rear stop light it will tell you that that wire is lablelld > zz23. So anywhere you go on the truck, in the frame , in the harness, > that you find zz23 printed onto the wire, as all their wires have > individual labelliing printed onto them , you have found the left rear > brake light wire. > Really now Robin, that takes all the *fun* out of it. If you wanted to do a proper rebuild you probably should paint the wires all one color, just to keep the mystery in it. :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 01:15:37 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:12:32 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: traceable wiring Status: RO >Thought this would interest those of you contemplating a rebuild. > >Western Star, a BC based class 8 truck company uses traceable wiring on >all of its trucks. That is to say that if you look in the manuals for say >the left rear stop light it will tell you that that wire is lablelld >zz23. So anywhere you go on the truck, in the frame , in the harness, >that you find zz23 printed onto the wire, as all their wires have >individual labelliing printed onto them , you have found the left rear >brake light wire. > >So neat and so simple eh! > >ttfn, of to see mickey ,hope to spot soem Lr product down south > > >Robin > > > >-- >Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca >FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers >Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean >(OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 Okay, so where can I get this stuff? That is a *great* idea! I want to rewire my 109", and that is *definitely* the way to go. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 01:15:38 1994 Date: Tue, 11 Oct 1994 23:12:38 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV, lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: Re: New L.R. Discovery... 1st 5 days. Status: RO If I'm not mistaken, LoJack has to have made an agreement with your local PD to lease them the tracking equipment. You might want to check to see if they have the gear to find stolen vehicles. (As I understand it, it's only $1 per year to lease the stuff.) As far as I know, it's not available here in San Francisco yet. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 07:59:30 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 08:44:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally To: denis@oswego.oswego.edu, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO I got back from the Mid Atlantic rally Monday and what a great time. On the trip down I caravaned with Ben Smith in our last hurrah before he leaves for CA this week. I sure will miss him. Aside from my leading us miles out of the way to get gas and depositing my gas cap at one of the stations, the trip down was pretty uneventful. I did discover that my CB doesn't receive worth a damn. I got plenty of exercise push starting Ben's Rover at each gas and one rest stop. Unfortunately for Ben the only starter for sale at the rally looked pretty poor with dirt on the Bendix gear and shaft. Once I arrived Mike_____, the landowner, was kind enough to lend me an extra cap as none of the vendors had any. I'll be sending it back shortly in better shape than I got it and with a new seal. There were quite a lot of Rovers and 10, YES 10, LRO internetters in attendance. The list consisted of: JEFF BERG- Immaculate Marine blue IIA 88 Softtop restoration RUSS BURNS- Metallic blue Range Rover SANDY GRICE- Marine blue 88 with roof rack and dual jerry cans on the back JOHN HUMPHRIES- Very straight white IIA 109 PU w/big bloody winch & Lassie MIKE LODICE- Rabbit that kept dieseling the whole weekend & darkplugs BRUCE MCERNEY- With a Rover car (2000 ?) MYSELF- Royal blue IIA softtop BEN SMITH- Rugged Marine blue III 88 hardtop with roofrack & Warn winch ANDREW STEELE- Blue-Grey Range Rover and big tan Rover dog KEITH STEELE- Marine Blue III 88 since new with a burned exhaust valve. He spent a good deal of time troubleshooting a dead cylinder then found the exhaust valve on #1 had negative clearance. I hope he made it home to Michigan OK. I posted him a note yesterday and haven't heard back yet. I think this may have been the largest gathering of LRO netters so far. It was really neat being able to connect the names with the faces. Dixon Kenner was noticeably absent, but 7 other Canadians were in attendance bringing 4 Rovers. It has been said that Dixon once hooked a chain to a wheeless Saab and pulled it around a campground at 2:00am. You'd think he could have pulled his wheeled Saab across the border. Steve Denis was AWOL. I assume he was on one of those social trips to VT that weekend. Russ Dushin was also missing. Must have been out doing the rumba with Brookiekins. Russ, you should have been there. Your fancy footwork on the dance floor would have served you well dancing through the minefield of dog turds randomly placed about the tents, parking and catering area. Yes there were dogs. Lots of them. Sandy's, Andrews, and John's seemed to be the only dogs that were kept tied up. One of the two Disco owners went to great lengths to set up their campsite VERY neatly. Everything was just so. They brought out one nice green folding chair and placed it at a 45 degree angle under their awning. Then another nice green folding chair was placed under the same side of the awning 45 degrees in a converging direction. It was so cute. Then one of the dogs came up and hosed down the chair... and got a boot in the ribs. It was difficult to keep a straight face. Another dog got a boot trying to spray a chair with someone in it. One more dog got a boot going after a kitten on a string. I don't think I would have been so kind had the kitten been mine. Friday night was fun getting acquainted with faces both old and new. Sandy kept Land Rover videos going for all who were interested. One was a LRNA tape showing tips for dealers on developing sales tactics for Defender 90s. One method was to get the customer excited about the fun aspect of the vehicle, then close the sale before the customer considered the reality of owning a canvas topped truck. Definately not for public viewing, but very interesting. It was a surprisingly cold night for camping. Another "throw all the clothes in your bag on top of your sleeping bag" night. Saturday morning Bruce McErney of British Rovers provided some worthwhile tips on improving Land Rover performance and fuel economy. Steve Johnson of Dixieland Rovers arrived with a trailer full of parts. Another vendor arrived with a second trailer full of parts. Unfortunately, no bargains were found at either. After lunch came the trials course. A rather twisty path through the woods with a stream crossing and a small mud hole. There was a substantial dip at the entrance and as I passed a log there were lined up on it a neat row of Range Rover bumper end caps that had parted from their parent vehicles. The stream crossing was fun. Choose your angle then give it a little gas to get your momentum up, cross and regain control before plowing into a pile of people. Ben was stationed at this point to pull the Range Rovers out of the stream. Very enjoyable and if you were careful nothing got damaged. But not everyone was careful. One of the 110s creased a rear quarter panel, a Range Rover shattered its air dam, a 109 blew 2 (bald) tires and a couple of others bumped into trees. As you came off the course there was a section of logs set up so that alternate wheels were articulated at the same time. Then up and over a 4' mound to the finish line. I believe the winner was the Series 1 and the prize was a Camel Trophy lighter and something else I've forgotten. Sandy said he saw me stop and back up at one point. This clearly shows how urgently he needs new glasses. That evening there was a barbeque dinner of ribs, pork (?) on a bun (very good, whatever it was), hush puppies, Brownies, and other good stuff. A couple of kegs helped quench the parched and a very good bluegrass band kept us entertained by the bonfire (was that John Humphries playing the Banjo at one point?). Good food, good friends, and a good time. Potato cannons boomed into the night (I didn't see one myself, but was told that they consisted of a tube open at one end, a shot of hairspray, a potato, and an ignition source). Later that evening Steve Johnson of Dixieland Rovers entertained us from 2-5am with the sound of his generator powering his flood lamps as his group drank the night away (they also drank the morning, afternoon, and evening away). Sunday before noon was a road rally to get to a catered lunch. It helped to have no rally experience because a fork was a T, a T was an opportunity to turn, and an intersection was the entrance to a plant with a sign saying Employees Only Beyond This Point. The instructions to turn in the direction of East and North were also challenging as I had no compass and it was so close to noon that solar navigation was out. I can't say what it was like because everyone was gone once I reached the finish. Most of the others did enjoy it and I beleive Jeff took 3rd place. Sunday afternoon the teeter totter cometition was held. Very entertaining. I didn't know that Ben was so limber as he contorted himself in an effort to balance his 88 on the contraption. I think he'll be seeing a chiropractor this week. The Series I driver cursed and punched his steering wheel as he stalled his Rover, then dropped his jaw as he realized he was balanced at the top. A small group then headed off to do some serious off roading nearby. In the evening Sandy posted the results of the Feely Meely- a box with several Rover parts inside where you had to reach through a bag to feel and identify the parts. One had "Land Rover Part" listed in each blank, which was essentially correct. Sandy would have none of that, however. I had one rather creative answer that for some reason Sandy would not announce. I've forgotten what the prize was. There were no prizes for creative answers. A silent auction was also held. People wrote their bids on a sheet by the item in question and the highest bidder got the item. If there were 2 or 2 of one item the top 2 or 3 bidders could purchase the items at the highest bid. The items and top bids included (forgive my inaccuracies): Camel Trophy Zippo lighter - $100 (yup, $100 or more was the top bid) Camel Trophy Belts - $22 +(?) Camel Trophy book - $60+ Multi-pick-axe tool - $65+(?) Land Rover enamel sign - $32+ Camel Trophy T shirts - $19 - There were 3 of these and somehow one person got 2 and Ben who should have gotten 2nd choice got the last choice. I can't fault Sandy as he couldn't be everywhere. There may have been others but I can't recall them. A raffle was held for a bike rack and a pull pal, a winching device that digs into the ground as an anchor for the winch. Videos continued as it began to rain on and off into the evening. Steve Johnson thankfully left taking his generator with him. Monday morning I left in convoy with Jeff well before dawn. My CB was next to useless. One thing I learned is that when convoying with another vehicle the trailing vehicle gets the better gas mileage. Even if it has a full roofrack, winch, hardtop, and double plated frame (and the lead vehicle is a softtop). But more importantly, it's less mentally taxing, in that you don't have to keep one eye on the rearview mirror (sorry Jeff, yes I did take advantage of you-it was hard to keep track of you through the canvas top rear window when I was in the lead). After 9.5 hours on the road it was good to get my 1st shower in 4 days. All in all it was a great time and Sandy did an outstanding job of coordinating a rather eventful weekend. I can't wait 'til next year. I don't know if I can say the same for Sandy. Bill Maloney Wayne, NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 08:51:17 1994 Date: 12 Oct 94 09:12:52 EDT From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Landy Subject: New Famous Person/news Status: RO Well, we can add a new famous person to the Land Rover celebrity list... Apparently the British Army Officer Col. Hewitt (who is now infamous for his kiss and tell story of his affair with Princess Diana) drives a Range Rover. In fact, according to the press, he recently fled England, driving his Range Rover to his current hideout... a converted pigsty in France. He left the country with his mother. No, I am not making this up... Also, Land Rover announced that they are opening a plant in South Africa in a facility where BMW's are currently being manufactured. They will make Discoveries and Defenders and plan on setting up a dealer network of some 50 dealers. Regards, R. P. Reid From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 09:05:02 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 09:33:37 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: LR World Mag Status: RO Just got a *free* copy of LRW magazine...the cover letter says they are going to send it to the club for free! That is a heck-of-a-sight better than LRO has ever done. After publishing one of my *copyrighted* articles, LRO wouldn't even give a year's subscription (or answer a polite letter for that matter). I'll bet things are going to change at LRO...PDQ. Nothing like a little competition to shake up complacency. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 11:18:43 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 11:12:27 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Peirce Manifolds Status: RO TeriAnn mentioned Pierce Manifolds some time back in a post - I happened to be looking in AutoWeek and saw their ad - Peirce Manifolds 800 874-3728 408 842-6667 fax 408 842-6673 Their two barrel weber kit with new intake manifold is $382.97. Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 12:29:59 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:19:40 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@stratus.com From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: Subscribe Status: RO Please subscribe me to the list. Thank you. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 12:53:23 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:44:50 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@stratus.com Subject: M-A-R-R = Fantastic Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Ladies and Gentlemen may I have your attention Please. Let's give a huge round of applause for the makers happeners of the MARR. I honestly haven't had such a good time that I can remember, except maybe the divorce. (only kidding, I was really miserable at the divorce)heh,heh,heh. It was really nice to put some faces with the netters here on the right side of the continent. Thanks to Bill Maloney for his list of ten netters and his excelent coverage of the event, and his good advice at the rally, and to Sandy Grice & crew from ROAV for all their work to make it happen. Special thanks to the McCaigs who let us all have such a nice place to gather. I'm just sorry that I had to leave Sunday morning before all the afternoon fun and festivities, and rain. As I was going up Rt 15 and 522, I could see the storm clouds rolling over the Blue Ridge and I thought fondly of those that would be enjoying the additional chance of red clay mud and soggy socks. Definitely a sure thing for next year for me and Butterscotch. (Lassie) Oh gimme a home, where the Rovers do roam, and the rain clouds lurk heavy all day. Where seldom is heard, a non british spoke word, and the gear oil and dog pee mix free in the hay. (meter???) Home, Home in V A, where the banjos and the fiddles do play. In the white one o nine we will have a fine time Till we turn and we must go away. Home, that is. Anxiously awaiting for 345 days to pass. Later Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 14:55:11 1994 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 94 15:48:04 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Mid Atlantic Rally Status: RO Bill Maloney did an excellent job of describing the "Middy" (Mid-Atlantic Rallye, BBQ & Storm) so I'll just add a few additional comments to his framework. Not to worry, I'll be editing his message so you won't have to reread the whole thing... Everyone will enjoy hearing about my trip down as I took a "little" detour. Having a wonderful time cruising with the top down, and enjoying not being at work, I neglected to exit the Garden State Parkway. I discovered this when I reached the end of the line in Cape May. I always wanted to go there, but by boat, not car. Anyhow, a little with a little back-tracking I was well on my way to my second major mistake of the trip, I-95. The traffic from D.C. to Richmond, VA was absolutely unreal and it soon became obvious that I wouldn't reach the campsite until hours after dark. Instead of driving into a strange camp at night I decided to drive until I got to I-64, and then stop at the first motel I could find. Once on I-64 imagine my joy at discovering that there were no motels prior to the Zion Crossing exit (which lead to the Rallye location.) I elected to drive past this exit and proceed 20 more miles into Charlottesville, a major metropolis which surely had a wide selection of hotels. Indeed it did, but alas there was no room at any of the inns. Feeling much like Joseph and Mary (though not with child) I headed all the way back to Richmond and checked in to the Best Western at 1AM. Up at 5, showered and shaved and hit the road. Absolutely no problems finding the camp site and by chance pitched my tent next to fellow netter Andrew Steele and his faithful dog whose name I never learned. After scarfing down some LRNA provided pastry it was time for the tech session on getting the most out of the 2.25 engine. My 88 became the visual aid for this session. Soon thereafter I met Bill "Monty" Maloney (It's the hat, the pants, the shirt, the LOOK! ;^}) and others. >After lunch came the trials course. I had decided that I wasn't going to drive the trials course. Perhaps after my car has weathered a winter and I've gained some offroad experience I'll try it. At any rate, I was able to catch a ride and enjoyed the experience, albiet vicariously. >I believe the winner was the Series 1 and >the prize was a Camel Trophy lighter and something else I've forgotten. Indeed the S1 was the winner. The oldest car driven by, I believe, the youngest driver. He recieived an entire Camel Trophy prize pack including the much desired (by me) Camel Trophy Zippo. >Sunday before noon was a road rally to get to a catered lunch. It helped to >have no rally experience because a fork was a T, a T was an opportunity to >turn, and an intersection was the entrance to a plant with a sign saying >Employees Only Beyond This Point. The instructions to turn in the direction >of East and North were also challenging as I had no compass and it was so >close to noon that solar navigation was out. I can't say what it was like >because everyone was gone once I reached the finish. Most of the others did >enjoy it and I beleive Jeff took 3rd place. As Sandy previously explained it was a poker rally. At each checkpoint you drew a playing card, and the best hand won. Fortunately, I was able to use solar navigation to find east, and was lucky enough to draw a decent hand, Kings over Jacks with an Ace in the hole. I helped pay my way through engineering school with hands like that, especially in straight (stud) poker. Too bad the other guys were playing draw. There was some card swapping going on at lunch. No complaints though, third was good for a Camel Trophy T-shirt, enamel pin, and a sticker pack. Plus next year I'll be all the wiser... > >Sunday afternoon the teeter totter cometition was held. The Series I driver >cursed and punched his steering wheel as he >stalled his Rover, then dropped his jaw as he realized he was balanced at the >top. Same guy that won the trials. I think he took third in the Teeter. That Series 1 was truely a great little runabout. As the Teeter contest was going on the S1 guys were running it over the gravel ramp used to complete the trial course -- crosswise! And then across the hill in reverse. He even brought the car to a complete stop on the 45 degree gravel slope and then got it moving again. Amazing! >There were no prizes for creative answers. Though I was heartened that Sandy mentioned my answer for Vehicle with most room for improvement: The Izuzu Amigo that one of the Road rally Marshalls was driving. Did other people vote the same way Sandy? > >A silent auction was also held. > >Camel Trophy Zippo lighter - $100 (yup, $100 or more was the top bid) I topped my bid out at $85, which was $20 higher than I planned to go. The woman with whom I'd been exchanging bids all weekend, usually uping the anty by $2-$5 jumped right up to $100 and I decided there was no way I'd scare her off. It turns out she was buying it as a gift for her husband, who is also the guy who won the People's Choice Award with a County 110. Nice truck and nice folks, even if they did get my lighter! (The funny part is I don't smoke, I just light a lot of cigaretts in bars and thought the C.T. lighter might make for interesting conversation.) I'm glad I was able to drive the price paid up though, as all proceeds went to ROAV. Sunday night Bill pointed out that I had a small vacuum leak. He went on to locate and tighten the loose elbow, providing a valuable learning experience in the process. Bill was also generous enough to "loan" me two quarts of oil, as I had burned through all of my spare 20w50 on the trip down. (Rover seems a little thirsty when running at a constant 65.) I spent the latter part of the evening swapping tall tales with Mike, Russ and Ben in the Canadian camp. Great guys all! "Monty" Maloney was already catching ZZZs in his mansion/tent, preparing for an early departure the next morning. > >Monday morning I left in convoy with Jeff well before dawn. My CB was next to >useless. Two suggestions Bill. 1) Ground plane for the antenna, your spare tire/mag mount might not quite cut it. 2) External speaker for the CB. Even a 4" Radio Shack cheapie, like the one mounted in my dash, really makes things sound clearer. Speaking of early Monday morning, we got quite a scare. Bill and I got into our respective trucks. Bill was wearing his "Monty" hat, and I had on my Tilley Endurable "Jungle-Jim" lid. We drive for about 2 hours and decide to take a gas stop. We both jump out of our Rovers and do a doubletake as we notice that we're both now wearing identical Jimmy Buffett/Air Margaritaville "baseball" caps. Apparently we both had "general public" caps stashed away. Then and there I decided we wouldn't go waltzing into any truck stops together. >One thing I learned is that when convoying with another vehicle the >trailing vehicle gets the better gas mileage. Even if it has a full roofrack, >winch, hardtop, and double plated frame (and the lead vehicle is a softtop). >But more importantly, it's less mentally taxing, in that you don't have to >keep one eye on the rearview mirror (sorry Jeff, yes I did take advantage of >you-it was hard to keep track of you through the canvas top rear window when I >was in the lead). After 9.5 hours on the road it was good to get my 1st >shower in 4 days. Lead truck is definitely more taxing. Especially when you have to decide whether or not to pass. I definitely could "hear" Bill's curses at some of the decisions I made. Still, I was happy to do it considering his alternate route shaved about three hours off my trip. Besides, it was fun to not travel alone, even if our CB conversation was minimal. And having a top-notch mechanic within sight definitely relieves a lot of the worry that us non-engine savvy types experience. > >All in all it was a great time and Sandy did an outstanding job of >coordinating a rather eventful weekend. I can't wait 'til next year. I don't >know if I can say the same for Sandy. Ditto! And also that it was great to meet all of the netters, Chris Laws and the rest of the Bay State Hooligans, and Bruce Mcerney face to face. It was also gratifying to receive so much positive feedback on the way my truck came out. I think that deep down I'd been dreading the expert response, and apparently in the end I didn't do so bad for a rookie. (Though the guy who designed the ralley t-shirts didn't like the fact that I went with cloth seats...) I'll post some pictures to the Web site soon, as well as send a set off to Sandy. Regards JAB Rowayton, CT == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 22:00:54 1994 To: lro@team.net Cc: mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: A bit of a diesel emergency Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 19:56:00 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Howdy, Ok folks, heres our chance to earn our bread and butter. A very nice couple from Austria is here in North America touring the fruited plains in thier 74 Ser lll 2.25 diesel 109. Things were going along fine until about Winnepeg, Canada, when abruptly, the engine lost power on the top end. The symptoms are as follows; the engine idles just fine, and revs to 4000+ RPMs in the first three gears, pulling fairly sluggishly, even for a diesel. The minute you put it in fourth, it loses power, and can only keep the truck moving along at 45-47 MPH. Previously, they were able to cruise comfortably at 65 MPH. It has had the following things done to it. Firstly, the engine was overhauled 60k kilometers ago before they came to NA, barely broken in by diesel standards. Now the list of attempted fixes. Overhauled the distribution pump, twice. The first time, when the pump was bled initially, black oil came out, indicating a failed lower seal, allowing crankcase oil to seep in. This was fixed on the first overhaul and timing, and on subsequent bleedings (sounds gruesome), there was no oil detected, other than diesel oil of course. The injectors have been replaced three times, no help there. The fuel filters have been replaced and even at one point, bypassed by running with a can on the bonnet feeding directly into the distributor pump to see if there was any obstruction in the fuel system.The regular fuel pump was also overhauled and then replaced. The air intake was disconnected at the filter, no help. The exhaust has been disconnected at the silencer, no obstructions, no help. Fuel consumption has increased about 3.5 liters per 100k to 14 liters per 100 kilometers. compression check reveals 490 to 520 pounds across the board, no leak down to speak of, no sticking valves. Valves have been adjusted and the timing cover has been off and the cam timing checked and verified as being correct. No drag in the drive train, ie. dragging brakes, transmission brake, slipping clutch, fozen wheel bearings, etc. All those would be fairly easy to catch by the smell and or noise, but the thing coasts just fine. The injectors were tested also as they were replaced, they spray just fine. Basically, we're out of ideas. HELP HELP HELP all you disel gurus out there. The only possibility I can come up with was that the camshaft has gone flat, allowing reasonable low speeds but falling of at the top end. But this would not be an abrupt change, it would be gradual. The problem came on abruptly. The engine makes no more than the usual diesel coffee grinder noises, ie, nothing that can be identified as being abnormal. SO put on your thinking caps and come up with the brilliant answer folks, a nice Austrian couple is counting on us. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 12 23:01:21 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rally Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 20:58:45 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I had a great time at the Mid-Atlantic Rally. Sandy did a great time organizing it. Not only did I get to winch out Ranger Rovers, but some Land Rovers also needed to be winched out. The Toronto crowd found some dirt roads and fire breaks that provided a lot of challenging track to follow. Not for the feint of heart. I did it all, despite not having a working starter mortor or the ability to use a hand crank. On Saturday, while I was waiting for the trials course to start, I wandered around and took a count of the Rovers present. Here what I saw: 1 SI 80 11 SII/SIIA 88s 9 SII/SIIA 109s 8 SIII 88s 3 SIII 109s 1 110 2 US Defender 110s 8 US Defender 90s 14 Range Rovers 5 Discoveries 1 Rover Car (I forgot to write down the type) 1 Lightweight 1 SIIA 109 Doormobile 1 Range Rover rolling chassis with Land Rover 90 upper parts Which gives a total of 66. Far short of Sandy's total of 80+ vehicles, but I only counted those present at a certain time. Lots of Rovers though. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 02:31:27 1994 Date: 13 Oct 94 03:13:09 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: TO ALL: Reliability of Land Rovers, etc Status: RO I figure that all of you out there can give some unbiased advise about the reliability of older land rovers to Shel- a newcomer to the LRO digest, so I have forwarded a recent message of his. ------------------------------------------------- FORWARDED MESSAGE - Orig: 11-Oct-94 20:00:44 Subject: #268276-Land Rover Defender - Msg Number #268760 From: Shel Belinkoff - SF,CA 76177,3361 To: Leslie Stutsman 100042,254 Forum: CARS Section: 14 - Trucks, Vans, 4x4s ------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the information about the LR's that you import. I don't know much about the older LR's, although I am somewhat familiar with them. I used one briefly about 20-years ago - it was a LWB (109") witha Safari Roof. I really enjoyed it. I like the looks of the older LR's, but am concerned about reliablity. When I go offroad, I tend to get into places that are well off the usual track - sometimes in areas where I've not seen anyone for a few days. Most of my driving isn't too difficult, but about once a month or so I get into some pretty difficult terrain - snow, mud, very rocky trails where I've scraped my skid plates or dinged a differential, by way of example. I think I would prefer a longer wheelbase model for added comfort and carrying capacity on longer trips. My current 4x4 has a 125-inch wheelbase, and, while I've had to jockey around in some situations, it gets me pretty where I want to go. Tell me a bit about the drive train, limited slip differentials, ground clearance and power. Can these things cruise comfortably at 70-mph or better? How large are the largest engines? I've joined the LRO list on the 'net, but thus far haven't seen anything that has given me much detail on these vehicles. The prices I've seen quoted in your messages seem reasonable, but I don't know enough about the units or their value to make any further judgements. Any help from you would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 04:40:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: A bit of a diesel emergency To: mfredett@ichips.intel.com (Mike Fredette) Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 10:31:18 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410130256.AA22511@pdx242.intel.com>; from "Mike Fredette" at Oct 12, 94 7:56 pm Status: RO Mike, You appear to have pretty well covered the possibilties,here,but there is an ananswered question.Does the thing smoke?If so,what colour is the smoke?Also,were the injectors replaced by new,or reconditioned ones,and if the latter,who set them up? Some ideas(pretty way out some of them,but you've gone and nicked all the simple ones:-)). Check that the spill system is working OK,from injectors back to tank for excess fuel,in other words,is the spill pipe clear? Remember that the distributor pump *will* work if set up 180 deg. out of true,but not well.Worth another look,perhaps. Has the gearbox got oil in it,or conversely,does all appesr to be well with it even if it has? If the vehicle has free-wheel hubs,are these disengaged? Is the engine overheating? Have you got the special tool for setting the dist pump timing?This takes up the play in the drive gear and tells you where to set the moveable pointer on the block,so that you can line up the indicator groove on the pump flange when you replace the pump. This one is far out.Has the thing got itself into 4WD.Unlikely,I grant you,and I'd expect somewhat different symptoms if it had,like spring wind up on tarmac,but in view of the situation,perhaps worth a look. Try also checking the tracking of the front wheels,a duff TRE could produce extra rolling resistance. The only other thing I can think of at present,which will make your hair go white(if you havent already pulled it all out)is that one of the hot spots in the head is loose.They are aluminium inserts,pressed and pegged in place.But you've got to take the head off to see them. A loose one would upset the gas flow,and combustion events. Is the throttle linkage operating OK,or has the maximum demand screw worked itself loose,limiting throttle opening. I'd *love* to know how the guy manages to cruise a 109" at 65mph.Wouldnt you Dale? Hope this helps,keep us in the picture,stay in touch. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 06:56:59 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 07:34:37 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Book Review To: LRO@stratus.com, denis@oswego.oswego.edu, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Content-Type: Text Status: RO (I offer my apologies if this is old news). A few weeks back I received a survivalist catalog in the mail (Why, I don't know. I seem to be surviving quite well, thank you). I doubted there would be anything of interest inside but proceeded to thumb through it until I saw a book with a guess what on the cover... an SAS Pink Panther. I just had to order this book. The book is: The Visual Dictionary of Special Military Forces Dorling Kindersley, Publisher $14.95 US It's really pretty interesting with lots of spy stuff including pipe/zip guns, zippo lighter cameras, and hankerchiefs that turn into maps when soaked in urine. This explains why my fellow OVLR members seem to consume so much brewski. It's not because they like getting toasted. They slurp down the suds because they have to hose down their hankies to be able to find their way back across the border. :-) Oh, that reminds me, never ask to borrow the hankerchief of an OVLR member (unless you're lost). ;-D (Dixon & company up at fourplay.nepal have been AWFUL QUIET lately. Is it igloo construction time already :-) ?) A full two pages are devoted to the Pink Panther. All of the details on the vehicle are identified (such as "Pneumatic Tire" and "Gear Lever" - I'll be sure to use this as a reference during my next oil change). It's the best look I've ever gotten of the vehicle, and for me it was worth the $14 and change to add it to my Rover book library. Bill Wayne NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 08:05:54 1994 From: marcus@dcs.qmw.ac.uk Subject: Front chassis legs To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:03:44 +0000 (BST) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 385 Status: RO Does anyone have any experience of replacing front chassis legs on LWB Land Rovers? The left front on my 1970 Station Wagon has cracked 3/4 of the way around, just forward of the crossmember and I need to replace it this weekend. Legs are readily available and the task was covered in the very first issue of LRW, but any additional comments or advice would be welcomed. Marcus. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 10:17:15 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 11:00:53 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: NJ British Car Show Saturday To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO This Saturday, October 15, in Dover NJ, an MG Marque Day will be held at Moss motors. All British cars are invited (201-361-9358). I'll be there around 9:00am (it gets crowded really early) with my muddy 88 (though not as muddy as Ben's). There are usually plenty of vendors with parts for all sorts of British vehicles. If the T-Shirt folks are there, I may have them screen their large image of the 109 wagon on the back of my Ottowa and Bay State sweatshirts. Mike Lodice, do you have a Moss Motors catalog for your Triumph? If not, I'll pick one up for you. Ben, if you dawdle enough preparing for your move, you could pull your starter and see if you could match it up with one of the vendor's starters. If you can't make it, I'll pick up a Jag catalog for your dad and drop it off. See ya there... maybe. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 10:52:27 1994 Date: 13 Oct 94 11:39:27 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: A bit of diesel emergency Status: RO Mike Fredette solicited > Ok folks, heres our chance to earn our bread and > butter. A very nice couple from Austria is here in North ... *very* strange (I mean the diesel symptoms, not the Austrians); but I'll have a go at it anyway: Considering most other things have been checked, maybe the fuel pump is doing less than its share of work. Overhaul it, or test-wise replace it with a more powerful electric pump, like from a Range Rover or the old 6-cyl. and see what happens. Or, maybe the fuel linings between tank and fuel pump have air seeping in somewhere? Inserting a piece of transparent tubing just before the fuel pump could help to reveal this problem; perhaps after a while you will see small bubbles making their way up towards the pump. In that case, all previous 'bleeding' (ouch!) whould have been in vain once the bubbles make it to the pump diaphragm. Or perhaps the pump itself is sucking air from the crankcase through a faulty diaphragm. The air leak in the lining could even be _inside_ the tank! If this doesn't reveal anything, I pass. Stefan LROC of Hessen From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 11:17:25 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 09:06:58 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: LRO@team.net From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: based in UK now. Status: RO As I mentioned a while back, I have moved over to the UK for a while. It is definately Land-Rover heaven. Back in California I might see one or two Land-Rovers in a month (except for Range-Rovers). Now I see many every day. the discovery must have done very well here over the last couple of years, there are tons of them on the road. So, I am going to try to find a Land-Rover and bring it back with me. Last night on channel 4 they showed one of the Land Rover adventures. These are 4 minute long documentaries about land rovers and some recognizable british personalities who tested them. Last nights was about Vermont. They took Lord Lichfield (a photographer who is famous for the pirelli calendar I think) and a few other people to visit Vermont. It is very soft sell commercial. (I actually wondered why they showed that black Ford Explorer driving around until I realized that it is the new Range Rover.) These tapes are excerpts from some live shows that LR produced for a target 50,000 of their best customers. They actually bought a TV studio with satellite capability to show Land Rover TV at dealers around the world. They are going to try to produce 2 hours of programming a week to beam to their dealers. Interesting? Now those of you with dishes in your back yards..... I will keep you all posted on the search. If there are any Britons who know of any LRs available, let me know. Or if any of you belong to a local LR club, let me know about that too. I am located in Berkshire county. Bye for now. Jimmy Patrick jimmyp@netcom.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 13:14:57 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 14:02:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Steven M Denis Subject: diesel problem To: lro@stratus.com Cc: bill maloney Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Two thoughts (then my yearly supply is used up) 1. Crank....is is possible that the crank has gotten out of phase? if it was overhauled and they use a petrol crank,all Toledo will break out...the endfloat on the crank will effect the timing..... 2. Camshaft...or general lifter,rocker,pushrod stuff....one overrev can kill some of these speed sensitive parts...if they were pushing engine oil into the pump,that could have cause an over rev....also...the pumps will leak diesel into the sump,but to put engine oil in the pump would require pressure...and just *where* did that pressure come from you ask? Blow by from the rings?......this alone can cause the low power...and if the seal was really bad,you would have started by draining diesel into the sump...actually directly on the drive gear and cam....are we starting to see a possible commection here?...well not so fast batman....I think the oil in the injector pump came,and is still coming from the defective lift pump which cannot develop enough pressure to keep up with the continueous power requirements of the engine at full power (yeah,full power,*that's* a joke eh?) and the distributor pump starves for fuel..... "AH!,I'ts the pump then!"......I never said that exactally now did I! it could be the cam lobe that acuates the pump lever.....remember that bath of not so slipery diesel/oil mix "lubricating*the cam ?....sigh.... Ok...here's what I'd do..... Load this thing down in the indrect gears at full power...do the canadian thing and tow a wheel-less SAAB about or something...this will *prove* wheather it is a drivetrain problem..if the power drops off during continuous full power in the lower gears,It's fuel.....if it dosen't the engine may have mechanical problems that do not allow it to develope the power it once had..hence no top speed.... I'd change the lift pump straight off...this will give them a spare if the don't have one already.....then....I'd change the cam..and really really inspect everything else..... the lift pump *is* different on a diesel! do not install a petrol pump! Did the pump shops replace the transfer pump end plate on the distriutor pump?...the originial piece is aluminum and wears very quickly...the new piece is a Bi-Metal affair that should last a long time.. also......do we have good fuel...if they picked up fuel in california,it is *much* different than the stuff they are used to running ...most people report better running on this stuff.....but it would figure that in a Rover....... back to work steve...... "HEY! NICE JEEP,MISTER!"..........."Look,Kid,it's a ..Oh never mind..." "NOTAJEEP"-1967 109 Station Wagon Steven M. Denis " "-1957 107 Station Wagon PO Box 61 " "-1964 109 Pickup Erieville,New York USA " "_1967 109 NADA SW 13061 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 18:22:29 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Cc: Ian_farquehson@vos.stratus.com Cc: caloccia@sw.stratus.com X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: The fourth tool. Date: Thu, 13 Oct 94 19:17:50 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO All right, by now you'd have to be a hermit not to recognize that the three tools in life are Gaffers (or Duct) Tape, Dental Floss or Bailing Wire (depending on application), and Wire Ties. However, this evening while attempting to change the R/Rs clutch slave cylinder, we discovered the need for a fourth tool. Well, as expected the unit was removed rather easily, barring the pipe, but that was just the usualy pesky and tedious undooing of the pipe fitting. Following that the new unit was put in place, and I was having some difficultly lining up the bolts, so I decided to remove them, and the unit, so that I could clean the bolts, etc. However, in the removal of the unit, I found the push-rod removed with it, not entirely evil, but there is this nylon clip that retains the pushrod to the release lever, and it basically didn't want to slip back on, and the release lever had some slop and all were located well into the housing, behind this 2" diameter hole. Plan A: use wire to hold the release lever forward and push it back on. Fails: wire interferes with the fitting of the clip, it becomes clear the clip won't easily be pushed on, as it's leading edges are square and need to be seperated to clear the release lever. Plan B: Use screwdriver to prise the clip apart in the hole. Fails, too many things to do, no space and only two hands. Inspiration: need another method. Plan C: Replace wire with dental floss (to hold release lever forward and not interfere with clip fitting) and dig out the split-ring pliers with L-bits to prise the clip apart and over the release lever. Fails, as in B. Inspiration: need a new tool to spread the clip ends apart and not take up any space. Tape, wire-ties and wire won't do it. Plan D: Keep the fingers spread and simply push over release lever. Leaving the release lever secured forward by dental floss, we spread the fingers and inserted the fourth tool, a wooden match stick and furthermore secured a piece of dental floss to the forth tool so we could retrieve it after it was secured. ------ Afterward, we managed to unsuccessfully bleed the slave cylinder, so I'm left with slightly more pedal than before, but not much clutch action.. But, seeing how twice my finger reached the dry bottom of the master cylinder, I think I'll be bleeding that tomorrow. Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:55:55 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:52:41 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net, SC00PER@aol.com Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1062 Status: RO Send requests for alias changes to; land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com ^ | | @#####@ (### ###)-. .(### ###) \ / (### ###) ) (=- .@#####@|_--" /\ \_|l|_/ (\ (=-\ |l| / \ \.___|l|___/ /\ |_| / (=-\._________/\ \ / \._________/ # ---- # # __ # \########/ Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 22:01 PDT 1994 > Sender: SC00PER@aol.com > To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net > Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... > Content-Type: text > Content-Length: 212 > X-Lines: 7 > > unsubscribe me > I'm sorry for doing it this way, but I have no other choice. > I need to attract someone's attention. > My apolgies for inconveniencing anyone who is not in charge of the Land Rover > Digest.... > -Steve > > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 20:57:41 1994 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 1994 18:54:50 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: hiner@mail.utexas.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Peirce Manifolds / Weber 2-barrel Status: RO Well, given that the weber is at least $150+ (from the UK), and I don't really know how to install it, I think I'm gonna hold off on it. For now. I do appreciate everyone's info on it, though! (I've got it all filed for the future.) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:06 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:55:44 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO Unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:07 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:55:56 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:55 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:16 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me immediately From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:02 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:23 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:09 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:33 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:41 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:57:23 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me I'm sorry for doing it this way, but I have no other choice. I need to attract someone's attention. My apolgies for inconveniencing anyone who is not in charge of the Land Rover Digest.... -Steve From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 23:59:55 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:57:31 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO unsubscribe me From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 01:55:23 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Book Review (Visual Dic) To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:53:56 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: from "maloney" at Oct 13, 94 07:34:37 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1499 Status: RO Baloney writes: < (I offer my apologies if this is old news). A few weeks back I received a < survivalist catalog in the mail... < I doubted there would be anything of interest inside < but proceeded to thumb through it until I saw a book with a guess < what on the cover... an SAS Pink Panther. I just had to order this < book. The book is: < < The Visual Dictionary of Special Military Forces < Dorling Kindersley, Publisher < $14.95 US < < A full two pages are devoted to the Pink Panther. All of the details on the < vehicle are identified (such as "Pneumatic Tire" and "Gear Lever" - I'll be < sure to use this as a reference during my next oil change). It's the best < look I've ever gotten of the vehicle, and for me it was worth the $14 and < change to add it to my Rover book library. umm... this is a kiddie book. I wonder what this says about survivalist catalogs. I wonder what this says about Baloney. Well, to be fair, the whole Visual Dictionary series is the best in children's books -- absolutely stunning photography. When I saw the Pink Panther on the cover some time ago, I had to buy the book for my son -- honest! He's a good excuse for these sort of things. This list is indeed getting rather quiet. Is it because almost everybody has been switched to digest mode, and that sort of kills spontaneity? T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 03:05:22 1994 From: Robert Meredith Subject: tyre sizes To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 8:57:38 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85.2.1] Status: RO Folks, I am getting confused, can someone give a definitive explanation of tyre sizes that can be understood by a dunce like me. For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. Anyway I hope someone can clear the wood fom the trees!! Cheers, Rob Meredith. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 05:51:11 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Subject: Administrivia 'Re: sc00per' In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 14 Oct 94 07:55:20 BST." <199410140655.HAA18977@chunnel.uk.stratus.com> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 06:48:48 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO > From: SC00PER@aol.com > Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 00:56:23 -0400 > Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... > unsubscribe me I was about to write a letter insulting the intelligence of the lowest common demoninator and AOL subscribers (which I often would like to), but I decided to see if Sc00per was really a zero or not. He did infact contact Majordomo and he asked to 'unsubscribe lro'. Majordomo's a nice enough chap, but he's a bit hard of hearing, and thus understands things only in a certain context, so if you omit key words, he'll either give you no information or something you don't want. He basically lives for the 'lro-digest' list, but I tried to lie to him and make him think there was an 'lro' list that he dealt with also. Now, we have to go back to when I set it up and made 'lro' a link to 'lro-digest', I tried to lie to Majordomo, and for the most part it worked. BUT, evidently, that link got transformed into a seperate file and thus the two were not the same by the time Sc00per did the not-quite-correct unsubscribe. [I could chastise Sc00per to being a bit juvenile in his bid to attract attention, instead of writing to majordomo-owner, but I empathize with his frustration, so I won't.] As for the files, I've changed the lro file to be root owned and read-only, so subsequent operations for subscribe/un-subscribe should fail outright, just remember it is 'lro-digest' if that is what you get. -- Bill From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 06:40:49 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 07:30:08 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Re: Tire Sizes To: robm!hpman010.uksr.hp.com@internet!.needs.domain, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO >> For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. >> Bob, I'm not a tire guru, but considering how quiet the net has been lately, I was afraid you might get no answers at all. On the sidewall numbers, such as 235R 15 or 7.50R 16, the first figure is the cross section of the tire in mm or Inches. The height, if there are no other figures, is 85%. So on a 7.50R 16 tire do: 7.5" X 85% = 6.375". Since there's rubber on both sides of the rim, double that and add to the rim diameter: 6.375" X 2 = 12.75", 12.75" + 16" = 28.75" tire diameter. If the tire were (hypothecically) 7.50 70R 16, the height would be 70% of the cross section. For metric sizes you'll need to do a little conversion. I have Sears LT AT 235 70R 15s on my 88 and they do OK. Zippy around town with decent handling and OK in the rain. One day I may switch to 7.5R 16s to improve fuel economy, reduce highway noise, and improve the ride (this is what folks with US 88s that have switched to 16" rims have experienced). But not today. I'm sure other folks will be glad to share their experiences. Bill 88 IIA & 109 Wagon Wayne, NJ USA maloney@wings.attmail.com (Over half my messages this morning were from someone trying to unsubscribe. I hope this isn't a trend). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 07:18:34 1994 From: UncleBrad@aol.com Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 08:13:19 -0400 Sender: UncleBrad@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: LRW/LRO club support Status: RO Sandy Grice writes "Just got a *free* copy of LRW magazine...the cover letter says they are going to send it to the club for free! That is a heck-of-a-sight better than LRO has ever done. After publishing one of my *copyrighted* articles, LRO wouldn't even give a year's subscription (or answer a polite letter for that matter)." The Land Rover Owners' Association , North America has had the same experience with LRO. We've sent in several articles that we thought would be good reading. Also several letters & phone calls - not a single response. They don't seem to think we're worth their time. LRW, on the other hand, has also given us a free subscription and a discount to members. I think that's good business & wish them success in the North American market. Brad Blevins Editor, The Aluminum Workhorse From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 08:20:55 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: tyre sizes To: robm@hpman010.uksr.hp.com (Robert Meredith) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 14:17:48 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410140757.AA18808@hpman010.uksr.hp.com>; from "Robert Meredith" at Oct 14, 94 8:57 am Status: RO Bob, I think Bill has answered the question you asked(so *that's how its done,is it?I never knew but didnt like to ask,thanks Bill). If you're in the UK,you could do far worse than 205 16 Trakker Radial remoulds.I paid 35quid each for mine,including VAT,and fitted.They appear to be a good compromise tyre,and the ride and cornering are vastly improved. The manual says(and this is the 11A manual)that 88" can run on 6.00,6.50,7.00 or 7.50 cross ply's.109",it says,7.50 or 9.00. That latter I take with a pinch of salt,personally.Radials arent mentioned,which isnt surprising judging by the publication date of the manual.Which leaves the question of tyre pressures very much up in the air(oooooh,sorry,unintentional I assure you). I run mine at the 25lbs recommended for cross plys in the manual, and they seem OK,I increase the rears to 30lbs for towing a horsebox. However,I'm not certain that this is correct.So if anyone has different opinions/experiences can we hear them please?For information,the tyres resemble Trac Edges in tread pattern,the vehicle is an 88" 11A Diesel 1970 vintage. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 13 18:21:44 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Re: A bit of a diesel emergency & my gear box! To: lro@team.net Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 9:17:40 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi Mike writes: >>> Howdy, Ok folks, heres our chance to earn our bread and butter. A very nice couple from Austria is here in North America touring the fruited plains in thier 74 Ser lll 2.25 diesel 109. Things were going along fine until about Winnepeg, Canada, when abruptly, the engine lost power on the top end. The symptoms are as follows; the engine idles just fine, and revs to 4000+ RPMs in the first three gears, pulling fairly sluggishly, even for a diesel. The minute you put it in fourth, it loses power, and can only keep the truck moving along at 45-47 MPH. Previously, they were able to cruise comfortably at 65 MPH. It has had the following things done to it. Firstly, the engine was overhauled 60k kilometers ago before they came to NA, barely broken in by diesel standards. Now the list of attempted fixes. Overhauled the distribution pump, twice. The first time, when the pump was bled initially, black oil came out, indicating a failed lower seal, allowing crankcase oil to seep in. This was fixed on the first overhaul and timing, and on subsequent bleedings (sounds gruesome), there was no oil detected, other than diesel oil of course. The injectors have been replaced three times, no help there. The fuel filters have been replaced and even at one point, bypassed by running with a can on the bonnet feeding directly into the distributor pump to see if there was any obstruction in the fuel system.The regular fuel pump was also overhauled and then replaced. The air intake was disconnected at the filter, no help. The exhaust has been disconnected at the silencer, no obstructions, no help. Fuel consumption has increased about 3.5 liters per 100k to 14 liters per 100 kilometers. compression check reveals 490 to 520 pounds across the board, no leak down to speak of, no sticking valves. Valves have been adjusted and the timing cover has been off and the cam timing checked and verified as being correct. No drag in the drive train, ie. dragging brakes, transmission brake, slipping clutch, fozen wheel bearings, etc. All those would be fairly easy to catch by the smell and or noise, but the thing coasts just fine. The injectors were tested also as they were replaced, they spray just fine. Basically, we're out of ideas. HELP HELP HELP all you disel gurus out there. The only possibility I can come up with was that the camshaft has gone flat, allowing reasonable low speeds but falling of at the top end. But this would not be an abrupt change, it would be gradual. The problem came on abruptly. The engine makes no more than the usual diesel coffee grinder noises, ie, nothing that can be identified as being abnormal. SO put on your thinking caps and come up with the brilliant answer folks, a nice Austrian couple is counting on us. Rgds Mike Fredette mfredett@ichips.intel.com Portland, Oregon <<< Is it possible that the cam has dropped a lobe, that would explain why it happened suddenly. Thats all that I can think of, but I'm not a diesel guru, yet. Also while I'm posting, I did not break my lay shaft, it turns out that while I was changing the bell housing so that I could put the 2.25 in, a 'C' ring on the lay shaft fell off, alowing first gear to float around, and make a mess! So currently, I might be having an 'F' suffix IIA gear box re-built, depending on whether I can get the input shaft cleaned up! ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:00:01 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 10:29:23 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: LRW Binders To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO In August I called LRW to order the back issues and a binder. The girl on the line took my back issue order but referred me to another number for the binder. Once I got off the line with her, I realized the number she gave me was one digit short. I gave it a try anyway and it was undialable. I called her back and read back the number. She read it back to me and confirmed it was correct. She explained that the number was to Lancashire (?), that the number was correct, and they called that number all the time. But you can't dial it from the US. And she wouldn't call them with my info to place the order. So I sent a note with my Credit Card number and waited. And waited. I just received a note from them saying they were sorry but they could not accept payment by credit card. They deal in checks or money orders only. It also apologized for the ad stating Credit Cards were accepted - they said it was a printing error. Just a heads up for any who are interested. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 09:46:10 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 07:40:29 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net Subject: Diesel problems... Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Diesel problems... While I'm not a "real" mechanic, I have done much mechanical work (engine r&r, transmission r&r clutches, rebuild carbs, etc...) I have not had the (mis)fortune to work on diesels. However, two possibilities come to mind: 1.) Check for vacuum leaks 2.) Check for broken/cracked valve spring. Maybe the valve is "floating" under loaded conditions??? Just some thoughts... let us know what you find! #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:56:51 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LRovers in Canada? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:47:19 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dave writes: > There is a possibility that I may be moving from the UK to Canada > (Toronto), which means I will have to sell my 1980 Series III SWB. If you move next year, you can bring the series III with you. Canada has a fifteen year rule for importing vehicles. Once they are over that age, you can bring anything you want in. > Does anyone know if LRovers are available in Canada? Yes, the new once as of this year, the older ones as they appear. > I suppose ideally I'd like to get hold of a second hand 90 Turbo Diesel > (Yup, I wanna move up in the world!) So if anyone has any info on > availability, pricing etc, I'd be really greatful! Not a chance. No Turbo Diesels over here unless you want to try and get one of the British Army Turbo DIesels, but that raises an whole host of other problems. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:51:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Mid-Atlantic Rallye From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 09:57:21 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO LANDROVER@delphi.com writes: > Oh, Dixon... thought you were going to go?? OK, so it *was* the Canadian > Thanksgiving holiday but Tom, Brett and Dave from Toronto showed up. :) > Ben (of Bill and Ben go up a creek fame) was there and proved he could do > some real off-roading. Bill Maloney was there too. Everything fell apart at the last minute. Am kinda pissed off that I missed the whole show, but to salve my feelings I went out and bought an early Series IIA diesel 109 pick-up. With the 500km of driving to get it though, I should probably have gone down alone to Virginia. It does sound like I missed a good time... :-( Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:57:19 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Mid-Atlantic Rallye From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:00:52 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > e) browns are running on the esopus ??? What are you talking about??? > f) Dixon told me he was going. Dixon doesn't have a very good excuse, true or false. > Dixon?? Oh, Dixon............? CAN we (both) say W - I - M - P? > > rd/nigel (he's pissed at me!) Nigel should be pissed off at you, though I would have been amazed if you had brought Nigel down to Virginia. As for the wimp bit, maybe, maybe not. We will see later on about this... :-) Rgds, Dixon PS. New job is swamping me with paper and eating into serious net time in a big way. STill don't have the 56k link installed. They lied and I want my toy... :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:49:44 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: LRW Binders To: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 09:44:26 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "maloney" at Oct 14, 94 10:29:23 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 879 Status: RO Baloney relates his problem with LRW telephones etc. I empathize, but only from my own stupidity.... Last time I called LRW, I forgot to dial the country code. As fate would have it, the Croydon area code (i.e. LRW editorial offices) is the same as the country code for Japan. So, I tuned in to a frenetic, but sexy Japanese recording. It was so mesmerizing I listened to it three times. Baloney's problems reminds me of a classic excuse from our polar friends: Canada had the unique historic and geographic opportunity to create a paradise on earth based on British government, French culture and American business; but they screwed up royally and opted instead for American culture, British business and French government. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 10:55:46 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 08:46:20 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: sinasohn@crl.com, hiner@mail.utexas.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Peirce Manifolds / Weber 2-barrel Status: RO In message <199410140154.AA24627@crl.crl.com> Roger Sinasohn writes: > Well, given that the weber is at least $150+ (from the UK), and I don't > really know how to install it, I think I'm gonna hold off on it. For now. I > > do appreciate everyone's info on it, though! (I've got it all filed for the > future.) > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California > Roger. I took at poll at the Palo Alto British car meet a couple of years ago when I noticed that several of the land rovers there had 2 barrel webbers on them. I only found one person who thought there was an improvement. That person had a header and 2.5L petrol spec cam. I suspect everyone else was over carbed for their cam. I wonder where you get the trick speed parts for Land ROvers ;*) Meanwhile... Scotty did get a chance to pull my oil pan. Dirt and unidentified parts of my engine littered the bottom. Scotty thinks they are parts of the timing chain. So his next investigation is to pull the timing cover. I still haven't talked him into pulling a rod cap & looking at a crank journal. Sigh, now that I've got my transmission paid for its time to start saving for engine parts :^( TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 12:15:30 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 10:12:15 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: LRO@stratus.com, maloney@wings.attmail.com, robm!hpman010.uksr.hp.com@internet!.needs.domain Subject: Re: Tire Sizes Status: RO I was glad to find out a piece of info from this -- I've often wondered what the aspect reatio is for RR 205 R16 tires is -- so I gues it must be 85%. That does indeed correspond to my calculations using the outside diameter. Thanks!! John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 16:24:13 1994 Date: 14 Oct 94 17:14:15 EDT From: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> To: Land Rover Digest Subject: Defender Success Etc. Status: RO I was down at the dealer this morning getting the hood release cable replaced on my Defender (the cable pulls out of the handle apparently on just about every Defender they've seen) when I had a chance to talk with one of the sales people. He was pretty nice and even let me watch a LRNA video that was produced for the sales personnel at the dealerships, not for civilians like me. Here's what I learned from the conversation and video: 1.) Apparently only 500 Defender 110's were brought in for '93 because this was the maximum number permissible without meeting DOT safety requirements. This may be but I wonder if LRNA didn't want the 110 cluttering up their offerings once the Discovery was released. 2.) A hardtop Defender 90 will be available in '95 although the specifics were unknown and he said it would be fiberglass. Based on what I've heard here on the net I suspect he was confusing the retrofit fiberglass top with the factory installed metal top. 3.) There is to be a 2-3% across the board price hike for '95. 4.) This particular dealer has sold about 6 Defender 90's a month (southern California). 5.) This dealer got 2 "special edition" 90's. One was pre-sold and the other sold the day it was received. 6.) There will be NO Defender 90's imported after the '95 model year. The reason given was safety, specifically the fact that there are no airbags on the Defender and I suppose no plan to fit them (no doubt this would involve some significant design and engineering efforts). From the discussion it seems that SUV's (which the Defender is classed as) and pickups must meet the same safety requirements as autos, or at least have airbags, in '96. I wonder about this so does anyone out there know if this is correct? Usually there is some sort of GVWR exception threshold (such as for emmissions etc.). Maybe in this case it's 8,000 or 10,000 lbs. 7.) The top delaership in terms of Defender 90 sales is located in Salt Lake City, UT. The salesperson with the highest sales of 90's is at a New Jersey dealership. 8.) The video makes some rather interesting suggestions about how to sell the Defender 90. Basically it should not be sold in the same manner as a Range Rover or Discovery. The Defender 90 should be presented in such a fashion so as to make an on-the-spot sale. Whereas the RR and Discovery can be presented based on their rational attributes the salesperson should build on the potential buyer's feelings with respect to the Defender and the buyer should not be allowed to build a list of why nots as it would quickly grow and the sale would most likely be lost. One of the salespersons interviewed said that he was seeing middle-aged men who used to buy Corvettes come in and buy Defender's. It should be noted that other points of view were expressed. It seemed that the method which worked was dependent on where the dealer was located. One dealership said they let the Defender sell itself by presenting its technical attributes and displaying them outdoors where they could be seen from the adjacent interstate. 9.) There is a nifty new "bull" bar available for the 90's. It's one of those cute little jobs which is the shape of a hoop (i.e. an upsidedown u). It's about as wide as the radiator grill so it protects just about nothing. Even the salesperson I spoke with called it "mickey mouse". I hope that this is not an omen as to what we can expect in terms of future products. BTW I've seen some pictures of the new Range Rover and while it looks good (especially compared to the competition) it doesn't look like a Land Rover or Range Rover ought to. It's too "clean". Usefulness of brush bars aside they can look good on the "old" Range Rover but they will be totally out of place on the new one (just like they are on every other American and Japanese SUV except maybe the Land Cruiser). Well, that's my opinion. I hope someone finds something I've said here interesting . Treading Lightly... Stephen O'Hearn '94 Defender 90 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 16:42:00 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. To: 72700.3262@compuserve.com (Stephen O'Hearn) Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 14:39:07 PDT Cc: land-rover-owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <941014211414_72700.3262_DHE36-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Stephen O'Hearn" at Oct 14, 94 5:14 pm Status: RO > > I was down at the dealer this morning getting the hood release cable > replaced on my Defender (the cable pulls out of the handle apparently on > just about every Defender they've seen) when I had a chance to talk with > one of the sales people. He was pretty nice and even let me watch a LRNA > video that was produced for the sales personnel at the dealerships, not for > civilians like me. Here's what I learned from the conversation and video: > We pulled out a cable on the demo model at the rally. Being the resourceful fellow that we are, we took some string, and a land rover key fob and tied it to the cable under the grill so one could open the hood. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 17:31:05 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 94 15:27:47 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 72700.3262@compuserve.com, land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. Status: RO Yes -- Thanks Stephen for the info on Defender 90's. I know lots of us are interested! Personally I am disappointed if it's true the 90 won't be imported after next year -- I think that's disgusting! I was secretly hoping to get one one day. I can't help thinking Land Rover is steadily going soft in the head, so to speak, and moving away from its tradition of building uncompromising vehicles which are the best off-road vehicles on the market. As for the new Range Rover, it looks like a prime example to me. When the first RR came out it was the best off-road vehicle in the world; in the case of the new one that contention would be highly debatable. It seems to me that if Land Rover tries to out-Explorer Ford they are doomed to lose in the long run. While at the San Rafael dealership recently I was reading some words of wisdom from Charlie Hughes on the success of LRNA since 1987. There was depressingly little evidence that off-road ability was considered a factor at all in the company's sales strategy. I suppose the best one can say is that they still give it a bit more emphasis than the competition! Well, perhaps these views are a bit too cynical -- sorry to blow off steam about this! Cheers John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 17:50:34 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 15:48:24 -0700 (PDT) From: John Brabyn To: "Stephen O'Hearn" <72700.3262@compuserve.com> Cc: Land Rover Digest Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. In-Reply-To: <941014211414_72700.3262_DHE36-1@CompuServe.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO On 14 Oct 1994, Stephen O'Hearn wrote: > BTW I've seen some pictures of the new Range Rover and while it looks good > (especially compared to the competition) it doesn't look like a Land Rover > or Range Rover ought to. It's too "clean". Usefulness of brush bars aside > they can look good on the "old" Range Rover but they will be totally out of > place on the new one (just like they are on every other American and > Japanese SUV except maybe the Land Cruiser). Well, that's my opinion. > I agree from what I've seen. It seems to me the clean sheet redesign of the RR could have been used to do more than make it into a BMW. Why not use the opportunity to also enhance off-road capability so it really could claim to be the best there is -- e.g. they could have increased wheel travel even further, used either electronically disconnecting sway bars or an active electronic suspension to avoid the need for sway bars at all, use bigger diameter wheels/tires and increase ground clearance, and improve rather than worsen the breakover and departure angles. Maybe those are tall orders, but it seems to me that if the RR is not going to try to be the best all-round off roader, but merely the most luxurious, something will have been lost. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 14 22:56:23 1994 Date: Fri, 14 Oct 1994 23:51:45 -0400 From: Andrew Steele Subject: Mid Atlantic Rally\Great Expedition Book To: lro@stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO First, let me complement Sandy Grice and everyone else who helped to make the Mid-Atlantic Rally a wonderful event. This was the first rally I've ever attended, so I was not sure what to expect. Finding the large tents, complete with shrubs and planters, at each stake is just one example of the detail and extensive preparation given the site. Given the size of some of the mowed down stubble in the fields, again I must think that a lot of effort was extended to prepare the site. I must confess I was one of many who lost a rear corner bumper cap as the rear dragged dropping into the creek crossing. However, as I pointed out to several folks, the missing portion of my front spoiler was previously deposited in Ohio. As this makes the umpteenth time I've lost the rear bumper caps, it may be time to find an alternative, functional, design. Anyway, I liked the looks of the Camel Trophy Great Expedition Book at the silent auction. (Others liked it more than I on Sunday after I had to leave). To wit, I've gone to my local bookstore in an attempt to order such. Unfortunately, we could not find it listed within the books in print computer. Does anyone have a copy from which you could post to me the ISBN number? More impressions of the Rally: - Friday night was cold, dog was shivering violently even as she slept. she even tolerated being completly covered over with my extra blanket, to little effect. (It may be time to wean her off the waterbed) - I know much less about Land Rovers than I thought. - Very comforting to arrive and actually know other LRO list members were around. - The dealership had less than a stellar display. One new Range Rover and one used Range Rover. Maybe they were low key on purpose? - Defender 90, I saw, I drove, I want. ($$$ ouch, no time soon I guess) - An overw orry , gotta go, out of time Andrew 87 RR Dayton, Ohio From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 13:05:20 1994 To: lro@team.net From: "Jan Beckwith" Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 12:01:04 +0700 Subject: Series I Priority: normal Status: RO I have a friend in Caldwell, Idaho who has LR - about 1955 if I remember correctly - that she wants to get rid of. It has been sitting outside by the barn for years and years. I am going over to look at it next weekend, but thought I better try to get some info first. She told me that it still turns over. It has a hard top and the doors are intact. Someone else who drove by and looked at it (just glanced) earlier this year said there were a whole lot of parts lying around, it sounded like electrical... I have a Series 1 in my garage that had stood out for a long time too. Everything that could rot - did. I was thinking about buying her's for parts. But I don't know how I would get it over here. Or if it would be worth it, if it isn't in any better shape than mine. Any advice? I know better than to ask what it might be worth since I don't really know what shape it is in. At this point I was thinking of offering her $500. She needs to get rid of it right away because she has finally "sold the farm." She said she saw an ad in the Nickle shopper from someone in Seattle looking for Rovers of any type. Would that be anyone on LRO? She was going to call the number this week. I'll admit that I know nothing about cars! The farthest I have gotten is bicycle maintenance classes. But now I am looking for a course to take in auto repair. I have a book/manual and am trying to figure out how I can get started by this winter (since it is snowing - just barely - out there today, I guess I have waited too long!) Jan B. ---------------------------------------------------------- Jan Beckwith,Pharm.D. beckjan@elixir.isu.edu Idaho Drug Information Service (208) 236-4689 Campus Box 8092 FAX (208) 236-4687 Pocatello, ID 83209 Idaho State University ----------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 00:41:17 1994 From: FHYap@aol.com Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 01:35:10 -0400 Sender: FHYap@aol.com To: lro@team.net Subject: Oil consumption Status: RO I have been informed by a LR mechanic that the 3.9V8 should not consume more than 1 quart per 5,000 miles and that this limit is an EPA requirement. Does anyone know of any EPA or other federal regulation (or statute) regarding allowable oil consumption? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 10:31:45 1994 >From: Benjamin Allan Smith To: lro@team.net Subject: Universal in the hand crank Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 08:26:29 -0700 From: Benjamin Allan Smith Status: RO I finally got sick of not having a way to start the Rover without rolling it. Last night Dad and I modified the crank so that I could use it and still have my winch mounted on front. For those of you who don't know, I mounted my winch so the cable pulls in line with the frame. To do this the cable pulls through the bumper. This killed use of handcrank because the winch blocks the crank hole. I though that if I cut the crank and welded in a universal, then I could pass the crank under the bumper and all would be well. I don't have a welder, so we had to think of a more ingenious solution. What we did was cut the handcrank in a place that would put the universal joint's knee just coming out of the forward pto hole in the front crossmember. On the crank side, we used the grinder and a file to make a 1/2 inch square end that would fit into my Craftsman 1/2 inch drive universal. On the engine end we ground and filed the crank end to a 9/16 inch hex that fit the appropriate socket. Now when cranking you have a little hole in the bumpter that alignes the crank and doesn't allow the crank to flop around when you try to start your Rover. We drilled and installed a U bolt under the bumper to fulfill this purpose. I will leave this on from most of the time. When I go off road, since I know that sooner or later something will bend that small U bolt back, I'll remove the U bolt. (And curse the heavens above when the Rover stalls and I have to put it back in (after clearing out the inevitable mud in the bumper)) And the best part of this fabrication is that I tested it out this morning and it works. -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 15 11:48:41 1994 X-Sendmail-Version: 8.6.9 X-Authentication-Info: costales@localhost From: costales@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU (Bryan Costales) X-Zmail-Id: <9410150944.ZM1371@ICSI.Berkeley.edu> Date: Sat, 15 Oct 1994 09:44:51 -0700 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Series III 88" for sale Status: RO For Sale: 1973 Series III Land Rover 88" wheel base, 3 door, red body with white top Presently located in Berkeley, California. Status: Lubed and tuned. Still need to wash, kill the spiders, and vacuum out. Features: Full size, "hot dip" galvanized rack w/stainless steel hardware. 2-barrel Weber carbruator with cable linkage. Stainless steel exhaust (with standard header). Spin-on oil filter adapter. Fully converted to synthetic oil (sump, gears and diff). 70 alternator, and electronic ignition (starts immediately). CB, cassette deck, AM/FM radio, and remote burglar alarm. Stellite valves so it will run on unleaded. Superwinch overdrive. Very good 6/4 15" tires. IIA grill provides 4 headlamps (all work). Sound proof foam under hood an floor mats (runs quieter). Floor mats in front, "wrap around" carpeting in back. Built-in, lockable boxes provide vast internal storage. Padded tire on hood with seat belts for passanger. Shop manual, and lots of spare parts (axels, gaskets, etc). History: I am the second owner. I still have all the maintanance papers and documents from the original owner. Why: I am selling because I bought a new Land Rover Discovery. How Much: $10,000 cash, with lots of room for negotiation. You may contact me via: e-mail: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu phone: (510) 548-3115 home, (510) 642-4274 x127 work fax: (510) 644-4471 home, (510) 643-4274 work -- Bryan Costales -- Systems Manager, International Computer Science Institute Internet: bcx@icsi.berkeley.edu BITNET: bcx@ucbicsi 37 degrees 52.193 minutes north by 122 degrees 16.277 minutes west From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:42 1994 To: lro@stratus.com From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Sun, 16 Oct 94 08:21:14 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I'm back!!! I'll tell you about my trip south in a later message. Heres some hot gossip in the mean time. A airborne elemnet of the Brit Paras tried out their New Pinzgauer's the other day, it turns out that they cant get the 12 people into it that they are used too. Although the MOD says that the PZG is not a 1 tonne LR replacemnt it is in reality, and thats the number of guys they could pack in one! Not a happy bunch. Ap[paraently a major film will be shot soemwhere soon using a large number of our favourite vehciles, no names no pack drill right now! Talk about not being popular, LRW are persona no gratia with the factory right now for breaking the embargo on the new Range Rover. From what I understand they retouched some photos and did a review from supposed "rumoured " sources. THats it for the minute Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:40 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 08:54:28 +1000 From: rwalker@dolphin.fen.qut.edu.au (Rodney Walker) Subject: My torrid love affair To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Cc: ra.walker@qut.edu.au X-Envelope-To: LRO-Digest@uk.stratus.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Content-Length: 0 X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Status: RO I finally went and picked up my series I yesterday. All the way home I'm looking in the rear view mirror at the twisted and deformed grille of the Landy on the car trailer behind me, thinking what have I started. I'm terrible when I'm buying something that I really want. You read about it, study it, until you think you know every thing about it. Then you go look at one in the flesh, and you're stunned. You look over it ( because no one buys a car without looking it over right? ), but you knew that you were going to buy "her" the instant you stepped into the back paddock and laid eyes on her for the first time. This is like a passionate love affair. Nothing seems to matter except that we have each other. "Rusted bulkhead, that's OK we can work it out". "No brakes, we can fix those". You know that you must have her. You attempt to barter with the owner, but he knows that he's got you over a barrel. He sensed it as soon as you slipped behind the wheel with that big cheesy grin and started changing gears and making Vroom noises. You make the purchase and then you must leave, because the week-end is over and you must come back later with a trailer to pick up your prize. "I'll come back for you my love" you think to yourself as you depart. >From the moment you leave and step into your car to go home, all you can think about is the prize that you just purchased. You count down the days. Your memory fades, no longer do you recall the rusted bulkhead or the fact that the brakes don't work. You recall an almost new 1955 series I landrover that just needs fuel and a battery to get her going. These are your happiest times, everything is going to be OK. You're in denial. So you go pick up your Landy. She still looks beautiful, though you don't remember all those dent on the sides. You finalise the purchase and start loading her onto the trailer. As you're loading her onto the trailer you notice sunlight shining through the chassis "Gee I don't remember rust in the chassis". When shes up on the trailer you can see a whole world of things you didn't notice before; rusted knuckles, worn shackles, missing tailshaft. It seems everywhere you look another problem arises. You start to try and kid yourself "Yeah OK, I knew that she needed a little work". Your friends simply look at you and laugh. As you leave you calm down somewhat. You can't see her anymore except for the glimpses that you catch in the rear view mirror. You get her home and put her in your back yard (way down in the corner). You freshen up, have a shower, have a beer, relax. You step out onto the back patio late in the afternoon and you see a dented, rusty old landrover in your back yard with one smashed headlight, a cracked windshield and a twisted bumper. The rose coloured glasses are off. You wanted her and now you've got her. You don't care if she's not as beautiful as she once was "she's got character" you say, and your friends laugh again. At the end of the night, before you head off to bed you go out one more time. You sit in your Landy and imagine what it'll be like when you get her going. As you drift off to sleep, all you can think about is the which part you're going to fix first. Rod ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Rodney A. Walker 44 Ford GPW Space Centre for Satellite Navigation 44 Willys MB Queensland University of Technology 88 Cherokee George St, Brisbane 90 Wrangler 4000, Queensland, Australia 85 CJ7, 85 J10 voice +61-7-8705187 44 GPA, 44 Dodge Truck fax +61-7-8641517 79 Cherokee Cheif ***55 Series 1 Land Rover ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:40 1994 From: SC00PER@aol.com Date: Sun, 16 Oct 1994 19:54:49 -0400 Sender: SC00PER@aol.com To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Subject: Re: The Land Rover Owner Dail... Status: RO Take me off this mailing list. I have tried your electronic un-subscribe and it doesn't seem to work. Quit sending me this. I am not sure how I can make this any clearer. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 08:54:40 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 00:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Series III 88" for sale To: costales@icsi.berkeley.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"costales@ICSI.Berkeley.EDU" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Nice Rover Bryan... but I wonder about the features.... > For Sale: 1973 Series III Land Rover > 88" wheel base, 3 door, red body with white top > Presently located in Berkeley, California. > snip---snip > Features: Full size, "hot dip" galvanized rack w/stainless steel > IIA grill provides 4 headlamps (all work). (can't be Lucas!!) > Built-in, lockable boxes provide vast internal storage. (VAST!! in an 88????) > Padded tire on hood with seat belts for passanger. (Ah-ha.. the optional mother-in-law seat!) Sorry Bryan... I just couldn't resist!! :) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 11:25:02 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:16:49 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: lro@team.net, FHYap@aol.com Subject: Re: Oil consumption Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9410150124014248138@aol.com> Status: RO > >I have been informed by a LR mechanic that the 3.9V8 should not consume more >than 1 quart per 5,000 miles and that this limit is an EPA requirement. Does >anyone know of any EPA or other federal regulation (or statute) regarding >allowable oil consumption? If there is a federal regulation regarding OIL CONSUMPTION, or leaking 90w, then there are a lot of us outlaw drippin renegades putting around in those "snot a jeeps". I hope Mr Al Gore isn't out there reading this cause he knows where I live. It's alright Sally Anne, he got what he deserves. He's been leavin a trail o gear oil for nigh onta a year now. Somebody hadda stop him, I hear they shot him right in the ear as he dripped his way into pep boys to stash up on Castrol. Farewell my friends Jon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 12:03:15 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 09:52:20 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: rwalker@dolphin.fen.qut.edu.au, LRO@stratus.com Subject: Re: My torrid love affair Status: RO Rodney, Your not the first on the list to purchase a previously unloved fixer upper that has been sitting around. My series II 109 pickup was sitting for a couple of years, crippled up fron being driven without oil in the rear diff and transfer case; missing a lot of parts; many of the existing parts ready to fall off and badly worn. That was in '78. I still own her and over the years she has become so much a part of me I can't imagine not having the Green Rover around. Dixon towed his first Land Rover home from where it was sitting for several years. He spent a lot of time rebuilding it and finally got it going about a year and a half ago. Its how many of us got started with Land Rovers. However, it sounds like you do have a full blown frome off restoration project on you hands. I suggest that you break it down into many small doable projects and don't look at the whole job. The first thing you might want to do is go over it with a camera taking as many close up detail photos as you can, then follow it up sith sketches & notes. Next take the body off the frame so you can deal with the frame rust, bulkhead and running gear. Pulling the body off is not as big a deal as it may seem, and will allow you to fix it right. I have been working on a frame off restoration on my TR3 for almost 5 years now. The body is on the frame, the doors & front wings are on, the suspension and steering are all renewed, the engine and transmission are ready to go in. It took a long time and a LOT of work, but I will soon have a new TR3 on the road where a badly rusted worn out fugitive from a wrecking yard once existed. Take care & good luck on your new series I TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 12:55:58 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 10:41:56 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: robm@hpman010.uksr.hp.com From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Tyre sizes Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Rob Meridith writes: >I am getting confused, can someone give a definitive explanation of tyre >sizes that can be understood by a dunce like me. > >For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what >tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which >size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. I don't pretend to be able to offer the "definitive" explanation, but do have a few comments to offer. I don't think there is any particular magic in rim diameter; it is just one of several factors to consider. I think that you should start with a serious look at your driving needs and decide which ones you want most to optimize. Any tyre you select will be a compromise unless it is very single-purpose, such as (maybe) a studded snow tyre or an off-road only tyre such as Goodyear Terra, Avon Treadlite, or Babcross/Maxicross trials tyre. When you consider what purpose is most important in your choice of tyre, that doesn't necessarily mean the use that involves the most miles. For a Land-Rover, even if you drive on the road much more than off-road, you may well want a serious off-road tyre for when you do get off-road. After all, you are driving a serious off-road machine and may well want to compromise on-road performance for off-road performance, as you did when you selected the vehicle in the first place. So, what's most important? Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, that you want a serious off-road tyre, say for mud: well, you want something really aggressive which will clean. I won't delve into the controversy of directional v. non-directional but, generally, for mud, you want the tyre to be relatively tall and narrow. For this application, it is easier to fill the bill with a 16" rim, as it starts out taller. Even though not all mud tyres are still available in 7.50x16, many are. This is a good choice of size for mud for a Land-Rover and is very popular with many owners. This size is pushing it for power, though. As low-geared as Land-Rovers are, they are still gutless. If you have a good, strong engine and tight drivetrain, you'll be alright with this size; if your Rover is tired, you'll probably not be too happy. 7.00x16 works better with the standard gearing and power but is getting kind of hard to find (at least in the U.S.), especially in radials (which I strongly prefer), an exception being the wonderful Michelin XCL which is available in all sorts of 16" sizes, but not in the U.S. A friend of mine in the U.S. just bought six new XCLs for his Camel Trophy 110 and had to pay about $200 apiece for them. I don't know if I think they are that wonderful. >From your e-mail address and spelling of "tyre" I gather that you are probably in the U.K. You can presumably get the XCLs more readily. I note, from reading LRO, that SATs (Firestone Super All-Tractions) are very popular in the U.K., probably because it tends to get a lot more mud than most places in the U.S. You rarely see them here in the U.S. anymore, although, as far as I know, they are still available. I have had them and don't like them. They are too single-purpose (as in no good backing up), too noisy, and too rough-riding (nylon bias casing). Admitedly, XCLs are also directional, noisy, and rough riding, just (I understand) not as much so. Oops, I said I'd stay out of the directional/non-directional controversy--I lied. The nominal diameter of a 7.50x16 is about 32" or so, maybe 33". The "modern" replacement for that size is the 235/85x16 which is about 9" wide, or so, and about the same overall diameter as the 7.50 (radial). Another consideration is that the actual static (loaded) rolling radius of the tyre will be substantially less than half of its "nominal" diameter and the static radius of a radial will be considerably less than that of a bias-ply tyre of the same nominal diameter. All this affects your gearing. If you go with the 7.50x16, you should (at a minimum) be using the 5.5x16 wheel from a 109, as the 16" wheels from an 88 are only 5" wide (at least the older ones sold in the U.S.), OK for a 7.00x16, though. For the 235/85x16, you should, I feel, be using at least a 6" wide wheel, preferably wider. One-ton Land-Rover and (I think) U.S. Defender 110, as well as Defender 130 wheels are 6.5" wide and plenty strong for hard off-road use. They are, however, very difficult and/or expensive to come by (at least in the U.S.; maybe not so in U.K.). Rovers North sells them in the U.S. but, boy, are they pricey! Steel Discovery wheels are, I believe, 7" wide and inexpensively available in U.K. I don't know how strong they are; I do think they look great. If you have 15" wheels (as original on the Series III 88 in the U.S.), they will be 6" wide. There is a mud tyre which will work rather well: It is the B.F. Goodrich Mud-Terrain, which is available in size 33x9.50x15, which is pretty comparable to the 235/85x16 but fits the 15" wheels. The only other choice available that I can think of, which would be close, is the Buckshot Radial Mudder, advertised in some of the American four-wheel drive magazines. As I recall, it is 32" in nominal diameter (probably only available in the U.S.). If you are looking more for a summer off-roading tyre or one which will balance the summer and winter considerations, the 30x9.50x15 should be a reasonable choice and is available in mud-terrain, all-terrain, and all sorts of other patterns. This size gives you a little increase in clearance over the original equipment tyres, an improvement in flotation, reasonable gearing, and is not so wide as to totally ruin mud and snow performance. I have tried all sorts of types and sizes of tyres and am currently running 31x10.50x15 Norseman Treadlock Radials on 8x15 wheels. In general, I am pretty happy with these, as they ride well, are not too noisy, and work reasonably well under a full variety of summer and winter conditions. One of my strong considerations is fording rivers and I find that these wider tyres do that much better than the narrow ones (at least the narrow ones that I have tried). 8x15 wheels for a Land-Rover are kind of hard to come by in the U.S. but (I notice from ads in LRO) readily available in the U.K. (if you don't mind the "white spoke" look--mine are actually on Land-Rover centers). Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. The right height, width, carcass construction, load capacity, and tread pattern for your intended use are the important considerations. If you would care to share how you intend to use your Land-Rover, clarify where you live, and what diameter and rim width you now have to work with, I am sure that any number of LRO-netters can offer you more advice than you ever would have hoped for! Have fun! Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 13:20:18 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 11:35:13 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Crane/Allison XR700 Points Conversion Status: RO For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I am also supposed to be getting their full catalogue so I will pass on any more news I can get from that. This unit replaces the points/condensor in the distributor with an optical/electrical trigger to fire the coil. Crane's technical assistanc can be reached at USA 904-258-6174 or fax 904-258-6167 I believe these units sell for around $100 to $120. There is also a similar looking unit in the Whitney catalogue for about $20 less. Their unit will also I believe work with the Ducellier distributor. I think John R. Benham has this unit working in his Rover (John correct me if I'm wrong). I know that Lumenition makes something that is similar and I think more expensive then the Crane unit. Greg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 14:57:24 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 15:49:11 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com From: berg@acf2.NYU.EDU (Jeff Berg) Subject: Re: Defender Success Etc. Status: RO >6.) There will be NO Defender 90's imported after the '95 model year. The >reason given was safety, specifically the fact that there are no airbags on >the Defender and I suppose no plan to fit them (no doubt this would involve >some significant design and engineering efforts). From the discussion it >seems that SUV's (which the Defender is classed as) and pickups must meet >the same safety requirements as autos, or at least have airbags, in '96. I >wonder about this so does anyone out there know if this is correct? Usually >there is some sort of GVWR exception threshold (such as for emmissions >etc.). Maybe in this case it's 8,000 or 10,000 lbs. LRNA reps at the Mid-Atlantic Rally claimed that this would happen after the 1997 model year. They sited safety restrictions as the reason. Incidentally, the reason given for no diesels in the U.S.was that the engine wouldn't pass California Emissions Standards, and that Land-Rover can't afford to import a 49 state care. When asked when we might see a U.S. Diesel the response was "Don't hold your breath." Regards. JAB == == Jeffrey A. Berg Interactive Telecommunications Program Technical Administrator New York University berg@acf2.nyu.edu ================= My garden is full of papayas and mangos. My dance card is filled with merengues and tangos. Taste for the good life. I can see it no other way. --Jimmy Buffett, Lone Palm (live version) == == From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 15:04:29 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:51:44 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Universal in the hand crank Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Thanks for sharing your ingenious solution to a common problem! I think, after listening to all that you went through, however, that I would go to a welder (I can't weld either, dammit) and have the solution you first suggested, namely, welding a universal into the crank. I also think that a guide bracket could be welded on, attached to the bottom of the bumper, but placed far enough back to be well within the structure, rather than hanging down into the ramp angle, as the U-bolt in the bottom of the bumper tends to be. I will have to consider your idea when I get ready to install my Tensen winch. I got it from Gord'n Perrott of Seattle. I mentioned to him my concern for keeping the winch low but still being able to crank-start. He showed me his installation (actually on Stephanie's Land-Rover) which has the winch sitting pretty low, so the pull is nearly in line with the frame, yet just barely allows the stock alignment of the crank, with the crank rubbing up against the bottom of the cable on the spool. Another solution that I have considered is to mount the winch just high enough to have the crank work when all or at least much of the cable is played out. You can pull it out by hand (by free-spooling the winch) then, after you have successfully crank-started the engine, use the power to wind the cable back in. Not too convenient, but how often do I expect to have to crank start? (I won't go installing the winch at all until I have the whole electric system pretty well spiffed up, including a dual battery set-up with isolating circuitry). Regards, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 15:04:25 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 12:52:09 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jan Beckwith" From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Derelict Series I: Buy it? Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Jan, you said: >I have a friend in Caldwell, Idaho who has LR - about 1955 if I >remember correctly - that she wants to get rid of. It has been sitting >outside by the barn for years and years. I am going over to look at it >next weekend, but thought I better try to get some info first. She told >me that it still turns over. [snip-snip] >At this point I was thinking of offering her $500. That sounds like the most you'd want to pay, unless hers has some special equipment you want to get your hands on, like an overdrive, winch, or something. >She needs to get rid of it right away because she has finally "sold the >farm." [snipity-snip] That should indicate that a lower price offer might work, say $200-$300. Although, I realize, she is your friend... ;^o >She said she saw an ad in the Nickle shopper from someone in >Seattle looking for Rovers of any type. Would that be anyone on LRO? >She was going to call the number this week. Well, what's the number? My guess would be Gord'n Perrott (not on the Internet). >I'll admit that I know nothing about cars! The farthest I have gotten is >bicycle maintenance classes. But now I am looking for a course to take >in auto repair. I have a book/manual and am trying to figure out how I >can get started by this winter (since it is snowing - just barely - out >there today, I guess I have waited too long!) In light of what you are saying in this paragraph, I wonder why you think that you might want a parts Rover. If you do plan to work on yours, if it will likely need a fair measure of the parts likely to be usable from hers, if you have room to have a parts vehicle without getting arrested, and if the price is right, it might just be a good idea. I myself have several parts-and/or- project Land-Rovers but I'm an admitted gonzo Land-Rover nut and have 2.5 acres in the country. Even at that, I sometimes wonder what I've gotten myself into. 8^]> Best Regards, Granville ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 15:29:28 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:25:05 -0500 From: "David K. Hudson" To: lro@stratus.com Status: RO Subject: 89RR Tires? I'm also looking for tires, but for my wife's 89RR. The only place I've found here in St. Louis, MO with the stock 205R16 MX+S244 wants $175 each installed. Other similar size tires are about $110. Any net wisdom/ experience on the subject? Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly different sizes on front and rear? Thanks, Dave Hudson PS I struck gold on my last net query. Someone recommended a BMW replacement for a RR coolant level sensor. The BMW part 61-31-1-375-715 at $22.48 was identical to the Rover part PRC5077 at $55 (from same dealer in STL). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 21:00:09 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 13:40:44 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Drippy Landys To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Jon writes: >> If there is a federal regulation regarding OIL CONSUMPTION, or leaking 90w, then there are a lot of us outlaw drippin renegades putting around in those "snot a jeeps". I hope Mr Al Gore isn't out there reading this cause he knows where I live. >> Jon, If ol' Al is sharp enough to follow your 90wt trail to your domicile, just cut Lassie loose and sick her on him. I often worry about Greenpeace chaining themselves to my D-rings in an effort to save those poor helpless insects unfortunate enough to make a path across my driveway. If there is a federal regulation regarding oil consumption, it is either brand new or they have been trying to keep it a secret. While we're on the subject, after tightening my oil filter housing, my oil consumption went from 3 qts per 250 miles from Cape Cod to NJ to less than a quart for 1000 miles + from NJ to VA and back. I was very pleased (and a little embarrassed). A little Baloney from Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 21:02:04 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 14:10:01 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Allison Ignition To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Greg writes: >> For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I am also supposed to be getting their full catalogue so I will pass on any more news I can get from that. This unit replaces the points/condensor in the distributor with an optical/electrical trigger to fire the coil... I believe these units sell for around $100 to $120. >> Greg, The Allison is a very good unit. I've had one on my Volvo 145 for 6 years now and have had no problems. Installation was straightforward but you do need to drill a hole in the side of the distributor to feed in the wiring harness. My points were clean and set correctly before I installed it so I only got 1/2 mpg improvement. However, there was no degradation of ignition and gas mileage that I experienced over time with points (300-350 miles/wk) and cold starting and running were somewhat better (they also claim that the unit is immune to shaft wobble - mine was OK so I can't verify that, but it makes sense in theory). If your goal is to save money via increased gas mileage and ending annual points and condenser purchases, the payback takes a while. If your goal is less maintenance and better running (and less deterioration over time), an electronic ignition kit may be worthwhile. I am planning to install one on my 88 possibly this spring. Moss Motors sells them for $100. Their number is 800-235-6954 in US and Canada. A little Cheese from Baloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From ccray Tue Oct 18 08:31:40 1994 Subject: Re: Allison Ignition To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:31:40 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1775 Status: RO > >Greg writes: > >>> > >For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic >ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told >me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I have had an Allison electronic ignition unit on my MGB for about 10 years now. My 1980 MGB had a lucas electronic ignition and I replaced it with the Allison unit. Gas mileage and improved running were not the issues -- a reliable unit was. So, here is my advice: Keep your receipts. I have had to send the Allison unit back three times (with the receipts). They have fixed it each time under the lifetime guarantee. The unit just fails after a couple of years. You will be driving down the road -- loss of power for a split second -- then all ok. Gets worse -- longer and more frequent. Then total failure. There is a power transistor that can't take the heat (what I understand in talking with mechanics). I have had a couple of weeks of warning in all cases. If I remember the initial installation correctly, you replace the points with an electronic sensor, so on a Land Rover you could put back in the old innards while the electronic unit was being rebuilt.... I don't know what I will do next time since (I think) Crane bought out Allison and who knows what their guarantee policy is. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 17:34:10 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 17:02:54 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Camel Trophy Book Status: RO Several of you have mentioned the Camel Trophy book. Incidentally, it was purchased by Chris Laws (Badger Coachworks) for $62 at the silent auction. For those who want to order diredtly, the price is $65 US plus postage from Switzerland ($-??). The publisher- SQP SA - takes Visa, MC, Amex and Diners. Write them at: Camel Trophy - SQP SA P.O. Box 129 1025 St. Sulpice Switzerland or call 41.21/691.05.95 or FAX to 41.21/691.06.00. (You figure out the country code, etc.) Tell 'em you got the address from ROAV...as they were kind enough to donate the book to us. The text is printed in English, German and French. One of the disappointments of the rally was the lack of demo models from LRNA. Though they helped out with a significant monetary contribution, they couldn't bring a Disco down (selling too fast). Also, the US debut of the metal-top Defender 90 was supposed to happen, but.... *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 17:20:36 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 15:13:53 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: FHYap@aol.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Oil consumption Status: RO I guess the EPA would not approve of mine then!! John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 17:27:00 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 15:23:01 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: RR tires Status: RO The last two stock 205 R16 Michelins I have bought from the dealers were $145 installed installed; one from Scott Motors in Reno and one from RAB motors in San Rafael. I understand the price had recently dropped (it used to be $200+) -- I wonder if your dealer is still using the old price?? Interesting news bout the coolant sensor -- mine also failed and I pulled iot apart & fixed it rather than cough up for a new one. Re the tires -- the tires themselves were $125 each, plus installation. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 20:02:03 1994 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 1994 20:42:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Gregory Brown To: Land Rover Messages to Digest Cc: "Howard D. Gross" Subject: Importing Parts to Connecticut,USA Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Hello Rover owners, My name is Greg Brown and I am new to the digest. I own a '71 88 Series IIA (well loved). The reason for my first message is a Graduate class entitled "Information and the Future Organization". A project for the class has to deal with defining a need, finding the solution and communicating it to the right crowd. Well the need is a economical avenue to obtain Land Rover parts in Connecticut. The solution is what I am looking for. The customers will be defined as the members of The Yankee Rover Club. My first question today is whether anyone knows of a source in England that I can contact to obtain a parts listing and prices? Maybe one someone on the Net is a supplier? or would someone be interested in being a liaison to help us acquire parts? Well hope someone can help. Tread lightly. Greg Brown (gerg) '71 88 Series IIA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 19:58:46 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: MIKE LODICE To: lro@stratus.com Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 17:55:09 PDT Status: RO Don't you just hate being the subject of a Email..... I lost you Email, But I do work for cisco the networking company. I am a Network engineer (Really I plug holes). At the moment I am sold to Ford Motor Co. where I am babysitting a network, some customers , and a Saleman. Russ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:23:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: My torrid love affair From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 21:51:40 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "TeriAnn Wakeman" writes: > Your not the first on the list to purchase a previously unloved fixer upper t > has been sitting around. My series II 109 pickup was sitting for a couple of > years, crippled up fron being driven without oil in the rear diff and transfe > case; missing a lot of parts; many of the existing parts ready to fall off an > badly worn. That was in '78. I still own her and over the years she has bec > so much a part of me I can't imagine not having the Green Rover around. Sounds like the 109. Sat for 15 years because the PO couldn't ever finish converting from a generator to an alternator, positive earth to negative earth. (Actually my proposal is to goto an alternator, but I am going to rebuild a LUCAS alternator into a positive earth model... :-)) > Dixon towed his first Land Rover home from where it was sitting for several > years. He spent a lot of time rebuilding it and finally got it going about a > year and a half ago. And then drove it through the forest for another two years and learned that off-roading is not really that cheap (expect to blow away a set of shoes every year minimum, a set of drums every two or three years, abnormally high wear on the clutch plate... and this is if you take the proper precautions and after mudding routine seriously. (See the October OVLR for an article on this. I'll post it here when I get a chance) Go through fine clay as found at a couple of sites up here and you can kiss a set of shoes good-bye in one afternoon)) All in all, it has been an interesting learning experience. The net has provided a lot of good advice and taking the thing apart several times teaches you a lot. (Don't let this disuade you from embracing Land Rovers, experience will show you it is the only way to understand and appreciate a vehicle) > > Its how many of us got started with Land Rovers. It really is the only way, but having someone to ask questions to is very important. Having the wealth of knowledge locally with OVLR is a god send, having a good number of those members as licenced mechanics helps tremendously. Of course such encouragement leads to a situation where I now have nine of these things. (Anyone interested in a 109 pick-up? I have a few... :-)) > However, it sounds like you do have a full blown frome off restoration > projec on your hands. I suggest that you break it down into many small > doable projects and don't look at the whole job. Debateable. Maybe to the first time owner this makes a lot of sense. To someone who is more experienced, and familiar with Land Rovers it doesn't. To do it all again today the biggest factor is encouragement, encouragement, encouragement. Without that, spend the US$8,000 and get yourself a really nice Land Rover. With encouragement for friends, the net, and others, you can take apart those axles, replace the springs, and do a lot of the nasty jobs that really need to be done. Do you really want to do this several times? It sounds a bit daunting, but think of the end result. To do the 109 properly, it should have been taken apart down to the frame. Did it make sense at the time? No, not really, but it still has to be done. The frame is slowly getting soft and the more I play with Land Rovers, the more sense getting a new frame to start with is. > The first thing you might want to do is go over it with a camera taking as > many close up detail photos as you can, then follow it up sith sketches & > notes. This makes a lot of sense. It might seem simple when you take it apart, but you can bet that you will scratch your head when it comes time to put it together again. Having the factory manuals are a must if you seriously wish to tackle a restoration project. Too many reference materials is never a bad thing. After you have played with a few Land Rovers, taken them apart and put them back together, you can start to cut corners (so to speak) Join the Series I club, and if there isn't one nearby, join one farther afield, or a Land Rover club that has a lot of Series I's. > Next take the body off the frame so you deal with the frame rust, bulkhead > and running gear. Pulling the body off is not as big a deal as it may seem, Frame is always the biggest hassle and weak point on a Land Rover. Having the frame in fine shape is the majority of the battle. The rest of the body is just a bunch of nuts and bolts and about an hour or so with a friend to pull off. > It took a long time and a LOT of work, but I will soon have a new TR3 on > the road where a badly rusted worn out fugitive from a wrecking yard once > existed. The only way. Not only do you have something that you appreciate and know, but something that others will appreciate and admire. The other small factor, is that if you ever have to sell the pet, you will get a lot more for something done right thanfor a quick patch job. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:23:16 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Tyre sizes From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 22:40:39 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) writes: > Rob Meridith writes: > > >I am getting confused, can someone give a definitive explanation of tyre > >sizes that can be understood by a dunce like me. > > > >For example how you work out the actual diameter of the tyre etc, and what > >tyres you can put on 15 & 16 inch rims. Does it make a difference which > >size rims you run, I've got a 88" S111 1973. > > I don't pretend to be able to offer the "definitive" explanation, but do > have a few comments to offer. I don't think there is any particular magic > in rim diameter; it is just one of several factors to consider. There is. A North American 88 will most likely have 15" rims. Besides using them as door stops and getting 16" rims, the fact to bear in mind is how large a tire you can mount on that rim. There are two types of 16" rims over here. The wide and narrow rims. The 109's had wider rims and will happily take a 750/16 tire. The narrow rims are recommended to 700/16 though you can put the larger tire on them (granted I have seen 900/16's on an 88") but it is not really recommended. Rim diameter does matter. 15" rims suck for all sorts of reasons from fuel economy, top speed, to how good a mud tire you can toss onto it. > Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. > The right height, width, carcass construction, load capacity, and tread > pattern for your intended use are the important considerations. If you > would care to share how you intend to use your Land-Rover, clarify where you > live, and what diameter and rim width you now have to work with, I am sure > that any number of LRO-netters can offer you more advice than you ever would > have hoped for! You offer a lot of things to consider, however, if you are going to do a lot of road driving, get radials. Very simple. I have SATs and they are mind numbingly noisey going down the highway but look really cool at car shows and work very well off-road (I'll shut up before we start a tire war here, though a set of XCLs pulled a particular SAAB at 3am a lot better that the SATs did (I wonder if the wood pile had anything to do with that ... :-)). Radials have problems off-road in some conditions, advantages over bias-ply in other conditions. Radials seem to be more delicate off-road and do not seem to withstand some of the punishment from rock, sharp objects et cetera that can be encountered. 'tis a matter of horses for courses... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:21:18 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Universal in the hand crank From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 22:56:03 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) writes: > Not too convenient, but how often do I expect to have to crank start? Depends how often you go swimming in a lake or a swamp... Using winch cables to ground and jump start Land Rovers in several feet of water isn't necessarily fun if the crank had not been covered with a winch (A Koneig crank driven one in this case). Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:49:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Importing Parts to Connecticut,USA From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Mon, 17 Oct 94 23:19:07 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Gregory Brown writes: > My first question today is whether anyone knows of a source in England > that I can contact to obtain a parts listing and prices? Maybe one > someone on the Net is a supplier? or would someone be interested in being > a liaison to help us acquire parts? In short, the best is probably Merseyside in terms of catalogues from the UK. There are a few good parts suppliers, some bad ones. Grab a copy of the parts suppliers section out of the Land Rover FAQ for starters. For some parts, there is a chap nearby in Vermont (used to be in Taunton Mass.) who has a lot of parts. Mike Bunoudouci is his name, I'll send you his number when I get to work tomorrow. My ultimate solution was to bypass the parts suppliers in England and get a distributorship for BearMach which supplies Merseyside, Paddock, et al with aftermarket parts. For some stuff this is the way to go. For other parts, Genuine is the way to go and you might just find that Rovers North in Westford Vermont is a good place to look. As per price listings and catalogues, get ahold of the Rovers North catalogue. It is about the best you will find anywhere. Those I have received from the UK come no where near them for being complete, easy to use, and generally very useful to have around. Getting a catalogue from the UK can be a real pain and with what you receive probably not worth the effort. Rovers North is supposed to be supplying me with an ASCII dump of their complete parts catalogue (Their catalogue only has about 1/3 or their stock). WHen I receive this it will be available here to browse and after I am going to write a programme allowing people to query their database via mail messages. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 23:57:04 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 00:44:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: MIKE LODICE To: burns@cisco.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"burns@cisco.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > Don't you just hate being the subject of a Email..... > It sure beats being in a police lineup.... > > I lost you Email, But I do work for cisco the networking company. > I am a Network engineer (Really I plug holes). At the moment I am This doesn't look good... a network engineer losing Email... :) Sounds like fun.... I spend most of my day catching stray electrons in the bit-bucket next to our AS/400.. Say.. you are the guy who hit the elk with a Range Rover, aren't you. (I'm terrible with names.) Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 00:01:06 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 00:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: To: dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"dkh@howdy.wustl.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > > Subject: 89RR Tires? > > I'm also looking for tires, but for my wife's 89RR. The only place I've > found here in St. Louis, MO with the stock 205R16 MX+S244 wants $175 each > installed. Other similar size tires are about $110. Any net wisdom/ > experience on the subject? Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly > different sizes on front and rear? > > Thanks, > Dave Hudson > Dave... I won't profess any knowledge of Range Rovers, but as a general rule, it's not a good idea to use differant sized tires front and rear on ANY four-wheel drive vehicle. It does nasty things to your transmission/transfer case (or what have you). Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 04:18:41 1994 Date: 18 Oct 94 05:12:38 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: 89RR Tires? Status: RO David K. Hudson wrote: > ..<...snip...snip...> Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly > different sizes on front and rear? Oh, no, no, don't do that! Your central diff will be "notsohappy", as Steve Denis might say... > I struck gold on my last net query. Someone recommended a BMW replacement > for a RR coolant level sensor. The BMW part 61-31-1-375-715 at $22.48 was > identical to the Rover part PRC5077 at $55 (from same dealer in STL). Thanks for the tip, it's just the part I need right now! Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 03:44:34 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:34:29 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 09:34:36 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Lix Toll Priority: normal Status: RO I don't know how if LRW changes it's advertising for international subscribers, so I don't know how many of you will have seen an advert for Lix Toll garage (Yes, Lix is significant -- it was the site of an old Roman toll booth) I went up there to have a look around. The garage used to look after my fathers motor boats when we taught water-skiing on a near-by loch, 10+ years ago (when we lived up that way) [That just reminds me of my *first* landrover trip -- Series I; 20 mph and the steering gearing jumps out. The guy slows down, shakes the 'wheel violently from side-to-side and it jumps back in.] The place has expanded now -- but it still has it's junk-jard out the back :-) The garage has 2 interesting rovers: A 109 Cuthbertson (reg: 8573 SP) and and Bog Rover - the one with 3' wheels (reg hbw 956 D), plus many scrapped machines (of all ages and models) There are also 2 scrap Scammel Explorers, but they've been lying so long that there are 7' trees growning through the chassis. As well as Land Rovers, the place seems to service UMMs as well :( If anyone is in the area, it will well worth visiting. mesmerising.... ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 17 18:38:42 1994 From: Craig Murray Subject: Rod Walker Please read this!!!! To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 9:31:05 EST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Status: RO Hi rod, I have been trying to mail this message to you for the past couple of weeks, but the mailer just comes back and says that it was unable to deliver it after 5 days, so hopefully you will recieve this, as you posted and article yesterday! > > Craig > > I finally got my series I landy. It turns out (I think) that it is a > 1955 model (the ser. no. starts 177XXXXXXX). It is fairly straight, the > rear body is flawless along with the doors and roof and bonnet but the > front guards have taken a bit of a beating. It still runs (I took > it for a spin around a paddock) but has no brakes. > > It came from a property out west so it is relatively rust free. Chassis is > sound in all the places you mentioned, but there is some rust on the > passengers side firewall. > > Initially I thought that it had it's original motor but I am unsure now. > It looks like a land rover motor (4cyl) but the distibutor sits up high > on the passengers side of the motor. The carby is on the driver's side and > the exhaust exits via the passenger's side mudguard. Do you recognise this > motor? > > Anyway it looks like a gem, and I souldn't have to do too much to it to get > it roadworthy and start having fun in it. > > Rod > Is the motor a X-flow? if so, it sounds like it has the original 2l motor in it, which ain't to bad, as long as you don't want to go real fast. With the rust, if it is in an good place, you might be able to cut it out, and weld in a new piece to take its place. My series 1 is still not going, as when I swapped bell housings to put the diesel in, a C ring, fell off the lay shaft, and when I went to roll start it, it blew up the gear box, I am waiting for that to be re-built, and I am currently thinking of ways to put a snorkel on. The best part about owning a series 1 is all the wierd looks you get when you are filling it up at the petrol station, not many people have seen a car that you have to fill from under the drivers seat! Happy roving. ============================================================================== Craig Murray 1955 Series 1 86" LROC of Victoria Australia 2.25 diesel (Nearly!) LROC of Gippsland Victoria Australia (Currently on Digest Mode) email: craigp@ocs.cpsg.com.au From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 08:41:26 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Re: Allison Ignition To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 08:31:40 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1774 Status: RO > >Greg writes: > >>> > >For those who might be curious the part number for the XR700 electronic >ignition system for the Land Rover 2.25l petrol is 700-0231. They have told >me this will work with the Lucas and Ducellier distributors. I have had an Allison electronic ignition unit on my MGB for about 10 years now. My 1980 MGB had a lucas electronic ignition and I replaced it with the Allison unit. Gas mileage and improved running were not the issues -- a reliable unit was. So, here is my advice: Keep your receipts. I have had to send the Allison unit back three times (with the receipts). They have fixed it each time under the lifetime guarantee. The unit just fails after a couple of years. You will be driving down the road -- loss of power for a split second -- then all ok. Gets worse -- longer and more frequent. Then total failure. There is a power transistor that can't take the heat (what I understand in talking with mechanics). I have had a couple of weeks of warning in all cases. If I remember the initial installation correctly, you replace the points with an electronic sensor, so on a Land Rover you could put back in the old innards while the electronic unit was being rebuilt.... I don't know what I will do next time since (I think) Crane bought out Allison and who knows what their guarantee policy is. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 09:37:21 1994 Date: 18 Oct 94 10:21:23 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: RR tires: 235/85R16 conversion Status: RO As the list seems to be into tires at the moment I'd like to post a related query: For specific offroad purposes as well as 'looks' I want to put BFG radial Mud-Terrain T/A 235/85 R 16 tires on a 87'RR. They've become a favorite fad in Europe lately, also on Defenders; maybe people over here have become a bit bored with the ubiquitous Michelins. I know the conversion can be done, I've seen plenty of them at rallies, and the tires fit perfectly on regular RR rims. Of course the body needs to get a 'lift', otherwise the tires will eat parts of the wheel arches and the front spoiler when doing a tight turn. Does anyone have experience with this and tell me, in terms of inches, how much extra clearance I would need _without_ having to resort to expensive conversion kits which include longer shocks, propshafts etc.? I already intend to fit front diesel springs from the Tdi-RR, and rear RR springs with british police specs (parts # NRC4304). Apparently the british police RR's have extra-long & strong rear springs because of the tons of police- and highway patrol related garbage they constantly haul along with them in the back... I *presume* these springs will already give an extra clearance of about 2 inches over the stock RR springs. Question is, should I add extra distances pieces for additional lift, and where would the advisable limit be before risking to rip off a shock or a propshaft (:-[] ?? Like I said, I want to do it on the cheapo using mostly regular Rover stock, none of those several-thousand-dollar monster-truck conversion kits... Any ideas? Rgds, Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 09:53:15 1994 To: "David K. Hudson" Cc: lro@stratus.com, mfredett@ichips.intel.com In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 17 Oct 1994 15:25:05 CDT." <199410172025.PAA28757@howdy.wustl.edu> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 07:48:25 -0700 From: Mike Fredette Status: RO Dave asks, I'm also looking for tires, but for my wife's 89RR. The only place I've found here in St. Louis, MO with the stock 205R16 MX+S244 wants $175 each installed. Other similar size tires are about $110. Any net wisdom/ experience on the subject? Oh, she only needs two. Can you use slightly different sizes on front and rear? ANSWER Your wifes 89 RR has a viscous coupling for the center differential which senses slipping and locks up accordingly, so don't use two different sized tires front to rear, or side to side for that matter. I just bought a set of four XMS244 Michelins from the TIRE BARN for my wifes 90 RR. They advertise in CAR and DRIVER and I'm sure ROAD and TRACK as well. The price I was quoted over the phone was $106 per tire and they have them in stock. I have a little deal with my local dealer here in Portland, so I use their wholesale account # and get them from TIRE BARN for $94 per plus shipping which is pretty reasonable. Their number is 1 800 428 8355. RGDS Mike Fredette 94 DEFENDER 90 90 RANGE ROVER Portland, Oregon From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 12:39:14 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:33:21 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Status: RO Further to my thoughts on RR tires yesterday, I forgot to suggest buying the tires from the dealer for $125 (not a bad price actually compared with other decent tires) and having a tire shop balance and instal them (if the dealer insists on charging 1/2 hour's labor). John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 12:49:22 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 10:42:55 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: dkh@howdy.wustl.edu, mfredett@ichips.intel.com Subject: Tires for 89RR Cc: lro@stratus.com Status: RO I can second the motion for not using different sized tires front and rear -- don't do it! Actually the Michelin XMS244's are excellent tires and probably better than any substitutes you can get at the same size. Every time I have talked to tire people (eg when getting punctures fixed etc) they have been highly impressed with these tires, which have reinforced sidewalls and a better tread pattern than most all-terrain tires. My advice is -- now that they are available at decent prices -- accept no substitutes!! John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 13:44:40 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 11:38:19 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: RR tires: 235/85R16 conversion Status: RO Since I have no experience with this, I will give it an anitial stab!! The 235's should be about 2 inches larger in diameter than the stock 205's, so they'll be about 1 inch more in radius. The only place I would think any problem might occur is on the front when the wheels are turned and the springs compressed. I would try driving diagonally into a bank or other obstacle on full lock so the spring on one side gets to maximum compression (with the stock tires on) and measure how much clearance there is to spare between the tire and fender. That will govern how much larger a radius you can use without modifications. The taller springs will only help on flat surfaces -- when they are fully compressed (rock crawling etc) the clearance will be no better than with stock springs unless you use new bump stops or some other way of limiting upward wheel travel. As you imply, downward wheel travel is limited by the shocks. I will be interested to see what others with more experience in this type of modification have to say. Cheers John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 13:47:07 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 11:44:36 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re: RR tires: 235/85R16 conversion Status: RO Another option to look into is the "Old Man Emu" lift kit made in Australia for Range Rovers, with longer coils and other bits & pieces I believe. I think you can get it in the US through such folks as Downey Off-Road or maybe British Pacific. I think the effective lift is about 2 inches. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 14:05:33 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:59:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Tyres and Wheels Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)writes: >>I don't think there is any particular magic in rim diameter; it >> is just one of several factors to consider. [my original comment, snipped] > There is. A North American 88 will most likely have 15" rims. > Besides using them as door stops and getting 16" rims, the fact to > bear in mind is how large a tire you can mount on that rim. There > are two types of 16" rims over here. The wide and narrow rims. > The 109's had wider rims and will happily take a 750/16 tire. The > narrow rims are recommended to 700/16 though you can put the larger > tire on them (granted I have seen 900/16's on an 88") but it is > not really recommended. Rim diameter does matter. 15" rims suck > for all sorts of reasons from fuel economy, top speed, to how good > a mud tire you can toss onto it. > Well, Dixon, that all jibes with what I said, except that I stand behind my statement that a very workable solution with 15" rims is the 33x9.50x15 BFG Mud-Terrain. I talked to a couple of Land-Rover owners at the All-British Field Leak in Portland who were running these tyres who were very happy with the results. One of them (well, a pair of them), Gord'n and Stephanie Perrott, were running them on a 109 which, of course, had had 16" wheels. And the Perrotts have probably tried just about everything (lord knows they've had enough Land-Rovers to try them on). Remember, the 15" rims are a wider 6", too. >> Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. > You offer a lot of things to consider, however, if you are going to > do a lot of road driving, get radials. Very simple. > Radials seem to be more delicate off-road and > do not seem to withstand some of the punishment from rock, sharp > objects et cetera that can be encountered. I grant that the selection is broader for the 16" wheel; my point is that it is cheaper to fit the BFGs, if you are already stuck with 15" rims, than to purchase 16s and then fit something else. And you won't get embarrassed by their performance. Sure, it's a compromise, but a decent one. Regarding your statement about radials being more delicate: Sure, to a degree, that's true. In the early days of off-road radials (in the U.S.) that was a big point of contention. Now, though, most of the off-road radials are tougher. Even in the old days, some of the Michelins were hella tuff. The ultimate tough expedition tyre is probably the Michelin XZY. Not much of an off-road tread, but very tough and wear for ever (12 ply, as I recall). Even XCLs are, I understand, pretty tough customers, with something like a 10-ply rating. The tyre of choice for the Camel trophy, which certainly puts tyres to the test. I have off-roaded on radials for years, including going in a lot of rocky country, with very satisfactory results. As a matter of fact, I recently noticed that one of my 10.50x15 Norseman Radials had a cronic slow leak. I dismounted it to have a look, thinking that it might have a cut on the inside sidewall. What I found was that the rim had gotten bent, allowing the bead seal to leak. There was apparently no damage to the tyre!! One of my more recently purchased Land-Rovers, a 1973 Series III 88", came to me with a new set of SuperSwamper Three-Stage-Lug (TSL) tyres, in size 29x8.50x15. These are, of course, bias ply and have a very gnarly tread (non-directional) which works very well in the mud. They are surprisingly not all that noisy, certainly no-where-near as noisy as SATs, but the ride is rather, well, notchy. My biggest gripe with them is that they are not nearly tall enough for my taste. I wouldn't mind trying a set of these skins if they made a 32 or 33 x 8.50x15 or, better yet, a 7.50x15 which is that tall. And preferrably radial. I have a set of the wider (5.5") 109-type 16" wheels and do intend to eventually fit them with a set of serious 7.50x16 mud skins, radial, of course. XCLs would be my first choice but, due to cost, will probably not happen. Several of the common Mud-Terrain radials (though the fact is not widely publicised) are available in size 7.50x16, for instance Firestone Steel-Tex ATX 23-degree [frustrating not to be able to use the high-order character set's degree symbol, but my understanding is that if I do, it will not go across the net]. There are several others but I can't remember which ones, off the top of my head. Hey, Dixon, maybe you and I could get a contract to be the east coast and west coast testers for a variety of mud tyres on Land-Rovers... BTW, I did not originally intend to focus on mud tyres as the only choice for Land-Rovers. And, even if you do encounter a fair amount of mud, I wish to make the point that wider, somewhat less aggressive tyres can be a rather more responsible tread-lightly statement. Sorry if I got carried away but, hey, the list has been so quiet. Thanks for the stimulating discussion. And let's hear from all you other tie-ehr goo-roos out there... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 14:05:33 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 11:59:27 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: Tyres and Wheels Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner)writes: >>I don't think there is any particular magic in rim diameter; it >> is just one of several factors to consider. [my original comment, snipped] > There is. A North American 88 will most likely have 15" rims. > Besides using them as door stops and getting 16" rims, the fact to > bear in mind is how large a tire you can mount on that rim. There > are two types of 16" rims over here. The wide and narrow rims. > The 109's had wider rims and will happily take a 750/16 tire. The > narrow rims are recommended to 700/16 though you can put the larger > tire on them (granted I have seen 900/16's on an 88") but it is > not really recommended. Rim diameter does matter. 15" rims suck > for all sorts of reasons from fuel economy, top speed, to how good > a mud tire you can toss onto it. > Well, Dixon, that all jibes with what I said, except that I stand behind my statement that a very workable solution with 15" rims is the 33x9.50x15 BFG Mud-Terrain. I talked to a couple of Land-Rover owners at the All-British Field Leak in Portland who were running these tyres who were very happy with the results. One of them (well, a pair of them), Gord'n and Stephanie Perrott, were running them on a 109 which, of course, had had 16" wheels. And the Perrotts have probably tried just about everything (lord knows they've had enough Land-Rovers to try them on). Remember, the 15" rims are a wider 6", too. >> Bottom line: You can usually make the rim diameter you have work for you. > You offer a lot of things to consider, however, if you are going to > do a lot of road driving, get radials. Very simple. > Radials seem to be more delicate off-road and > do not seem to withstand some of the punishment from rock, sharp > objects et cetera that can be encountered. I grant that the selection is broader for the 16" wheel; my point is that it is cheaper to fit the BFGs, if you are already stuck with 15" rims, than to purchase 16s and then fit something else. And you won't get embarrassed by their performance. Sure, it's a compromise, but a decent one. Regarding your statement about radials being more delicate: Sure, to a degree, that's true. In the early days of off-road radials (in the U.S.) that was a big point of contention. Now, though, most of the off-road radials are tougher. Even in the old days, some of the Michelins were hella tuff. The ultimate tough expedition tyre is probably the Michelin XZY. Not much of an off-road tread, but very tough and wear for ever (12 ply, as I recall). Even XCLs are, I understand, pretty tough customers, with something like a 10-ply rating. The tyre of choice for the Camel trophy, which certainly puts tyres to the test. I have off-roaded on radials for years, including going in a lot of rocky country, with very satisfactory results. As a matter of fact, I recently noticed that one of my 10.50x15 Norseman Radials had a cronic slow leak. I dismounted it to have a look, thinking that it might have a cut on the inside sidewall. What I found was that the rim had gotten bent, allowing the bead seal to leak. There was apparently no damage to the tyre!! One of my more recently purchased Land-Rovers, a 1973 Series III 88", came to me with a new set of SuperSwamper Three-Stage-Lug (TSL) tyres, in size 29x8.50x15. These are, of course, bias ply and have a very gnarly tread (non-directional) which works very well in the mud. They are surprisingly not all that noisy, certainly no-where-near as noisy as SATs, but the ride is rather, well, notchy. My biggest gripe with them is that they are not nearly tall enough for my taste. I wouldn't mind trying a set of these skins if they made a 32 or 33 x 8.50x15 or, better yet, a 7.50x15 which is that tall. And preferrably radial. I have a set of the wider (5.5") 109-type 16" wheels and do intend to eventually fit them with a set of serious 7.50x16 mud skins, radial, of course. XCLs would be my first choice but, due to cost, will probably not happen. Several of the common Mud-Terrain radials (though the fact is not widely publicised) are available in size 7.50x16, for instance Firestone Steel-Tex ATX 23-degree [frustrating not to be able to use the high-order character set's degree symbol, but my understanding is that if I do, it will not go across the net]. There are several others but I can't remember which ones, off the top of my head. Hey, Dixon, maybe you and I could get a contract to be the east coast and west coast testers for a variety of mud tyres on Land-Rovers... BTW, I did not originally intend to focus on mud tyres as the only choice for Land-Rovers. And, even if you do encounter a fair amount of mud, I wish to make the point that wider, somewhat less aggressive tyres can be a rather more responsible tread-lightly statement. Sorry if I got carried away but, hey, the list has been so quiet. Thanks for the stimulating discussion. And let's hear from all you other tie-ehr goo-roos out there... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 15:10:30 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 16:04:24 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net From: bcw6@cornell.edu (Braman C. Wing) Subject: Looking for a 109 Status: RO Hi, I'm new to the list and about to embark(hopefully) on a major Rover project. I'm planning on doing a full ground up restoration with new chassis, drivetrain, etc. What I need at this point is a rough but fairly complete car to use as a starting point. Specifically, I'm looking for a 1970 or earlier Series II or IIA 109 hardtop. I need a good body, but the chassis and engine can be junk as far as I'm concerned. I realize that it would probably be easier in the long run to start with something more solid, but this is a long term project. If anyone happens to have or know of a Rover fitting this description, please let me know. Thanks. BCW From ccray Tue Oct 18 15:18:11 1994 Subject: questions about being shafted... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:18:11 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2443 Status: RO Lulu is sick again. With all the talk on the network about broken springs and frozen spring shakle bushings, I thought I was in for a spring job this fall: ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large bumps under power... But it got worse with interesting symptoms: ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and I wasn't moving anywhere... ...It kept getting worse and worse. ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car and driver on dry pavement)... So now I think I have a broken rear axle shaft. The stories I had heard in the past about broken rear axle shafts made me think you were stopped cold with a racing engine and no forward movement. I visualize this one as snapped at a angle -- a lot of time it will transfer light load. But it slips under heavy load. So, question to the netters (having never done a broken rear axle shaft) is the repair job just: 1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off the wheels). 2. pulling out the axle half shaft. 3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken piece. 4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. 5. installation is the reverse of above. Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts vendors advise. Any other information would be appreciated. The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for that carrier) interchange-able between the front and rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in the gearing. Hoping for some good advice so I can put my order in for parts... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 15:15:26 1994 From: Morgan Hannaford Subject: LROI ?????? To: lro@team.net Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 13:07:20 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 146 Status: RO Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? Morgan Hannaford Berkeley, CA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 15:26:35 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: questions about being shafted... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 15:18:12 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 2442 Status: RO Lulu is sick again. With all the talk on the network about broken springs and frozen spring shakle bushings, I thought I was in for a spring job this fall: ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large bumps under power... But it got worse with interesting symptoms: ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and I wasn't moving anywhere... ...It kept getting worse and worse. ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car and driver on dry pavement)... So now I think I have a broken rear axle shaft. The stories I had heard in the past about broken rear axle shafts made me think you were stopped cold with a racing engine and no forward movement. I visualize this one as snapped at a angle -- a lot of time it will transfer light load. But it slips under heavy load. So, question to the netters (having never done a broken rear axle shaft) is the repair job just: 1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off the wheels). 2. pulling out the axle half shaft. 3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken piece. 4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. 5. installation is the reverse of above. Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts vendors advise. Any other information would be appreciated. The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for that carrier) interchange-able between the front and rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in the gearing. Hoping for some good advice so I can put my order in for parts... --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 17:08:58 1994 From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: LROI ?????? To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU (Morgan Hannaford) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 13:42:12 PDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410182007.NAA25408@koala.Berkeley.EDU>; from "Morgan Hannaford" at Oct 18, 94 1:07 pm Status: RO Not yet...... russ > > > > Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue > of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? > > Morgan Hannaford > Berkeley, CA > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 18:10:42 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 18:52:52 -0400 (EDT) From: "Steven Swiger (LIS)" Subject: Wanted To: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Wanted: One Rover, II IIa III, 88 or 109, hardtop or pickup, preferably diesel, running not important as long as is the engine is not seized, no major frame rust, interior required but condition is not important. Want to get in cheap (what am I saying, this thing is a british collectible) $500-$750 or trade small sailboat. Tampa Bay area or beyond. Will come pick up within reason. Any info, suggestions, offers, etc. Call me or E-me (813)979-4732 swiger@luna.cas.usf.edu Thanks in advance for anything...I just went to the All-british Show Tampa this weekend and now i've got it in my blood, gotta have a rover, there was only ONE there, and it was in about the condition that I just described (want). Steve Swiger From twakeman@apple.com Tue Oct 18 19:12:40 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 17:13:34 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... Status: RO Ray, Sounds to me like you probably have 2 unrelated problems. 1. The noises. COuld be shackles, could be a crack in the frame. Do a visual inspection. Look for disentigrated bushings at the shackles. 2. Slipping under power but not under light load. This sure sounds like clutch slipping to me. If you are lucky, your clutch hydrolics are not returning properly and you can adjust the linkage. Most likely you are dealing with a worn or oily clutch... happy transmission pulling. When an axle breaks it breaks. If it had broken, any driving you would have done on it would have probably destroyed teeth on the ring & pinion gears. The break sounds like a big thunk and the car can seem to jerk. If you are in two wheel drive its like you just shifted into neutral. At that time you need to stop the car ASAP and do not move it untill the rear drive shaft and both axles are off the car. This prevents the diff from turning. If the break is at the hub end your diff is probably fine. If its at the diff end it probably tried to bite down on a broken part of the shaft and needs ring & pionion replaced. Always replace both axles. The breakage is usually caused by crystalization of the metal. If one side is crystalized the other side is probably crystalized too. I broke one axle towing a small shed up a hill. Replaced it and broke the other a couple of months later turning a corner on pavement. Lost the diff that time too. I replaced them with used axles out of a parts car I had. Broke another axle and diff on pavement turning a corner about a year later. Both times the diff went it was the inside end of the axle that broke. Moral to the story: Axles crystalize over time. Replace them both and replace them with new parts. If you are going on a major off road expidition to the middle of nowhere and have a new set of axles for spare, put them in before you go. You can put the old ones in afterwards if you wish & save the new ones. Its better not to brake an axle then be in the middle of nowhere hoping it was the outside of the axle that broke as you are pulling them out. Get a salsbury rear end & you will never break axles. When you break an axles you will need to pull both axles and the diff to make sure all the chips are out of the housing. You do not want chips bouncing around in the housing eventually coming to rest betweem the ring & pinion gears. This is a good time to disassemble the axle breather and clean it up too. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 20:29:07 1994 Date: 18 Oct 94 21:22:44 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Rover Mailing List Subject: ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO The Good News I won't give a description of the event - others have done that very well already. I would like to say that it was the most fun I have had in a long time and am certainly planning to attend next year. Meeting in person many of the people I have talked to on the net was a highlight. I would especially like to thank Sandy Grice for all the time and energy he put into making the event memorable. Sandy was not pleased with the Sunday lunch and dinner but I have to admit it was far better than what I was likely to cook up on the camp stove. Other reports to the contrary, Sandy's printed directions to the Sunday Lunch raised obfustication to an art form (its either that or admit that I am "geographically challenged" which I'm certainly not prepared to do). His claim that the instructions were "spot on" could only have been made by a former cost estimator for Lucas Aerospace. The Bad News On the last day of the event the Rover's (72 S III 88) engine developed a serious loss of power and started making new noises. With a lot of freely given and greatly appreciated help from Bruce McEnaney (owner of British Rovers in Vermont who attended the event in a Rover Sedan) and Bill Maloney, it was determined that the Rover would probabally make it the 500 miles home on it's own power albeit slower than normal. Burned valves were suspected in # 1 and 2 cylinders. As it turned out the Rover sustained it's 22 year streak of always making it home under it's own power, although, I must admit fully loaded tractor trailers blew my doors off on the uphills. After arriving at home and pulling the head I discovered that the valves were in acceptable shape. The problem was that the head gasket was burned through (1 inch section was entirely missing) at the narrowest point between #1 and 2 cylinders allowing the gasses to go back and forth freely between the cylinders. I will send the head to British Rovers for repair and a valve job. Hopefully the Rover will be back on the road in two or three weeks. Keith Steele 75126.1123@compuserve.com 72' Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 18 23:19:20 1994 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 21:14:00 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: costales@icsi.berkeley.edu, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: Series III 88" for sale Status: RO > >For Sale: 1973 Series III Land Rover snip > Sound proof foam under hood an floor mats (runs quieter). What did you use for this? I would love to do something similar. > Padded tire on hood with seat belts for passanger. And where did you get this!!???!! This I would *love* to have! Thanks in advance! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 00:05:44 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: LROI ?????? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 23:27:39 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Morgan Hannaford writes: > Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue > of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? Two weeks ago on the right coast. Phone or send a nasty note to LRO. Other I know who have done this managed to get another month added to their subscription. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 00:07:06 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Wanted From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Tue, 18 Oct 94 23:29:42 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Steven Swiger (LIS)" writes: > One Rover, II IIa III, 88 or 109, hardtop or pickup, preferably diesel, > running not important as long as > is the engine is not seized, no major frame rust, interior required but ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||||||||||||| > condition is not important. Want to get in cheap (what am I saying, this > thing is a british collectible) $500-$750 or trade small sailboat. Tampa ^^^^^^^^^ ||||||||| Best of luck. A good solid frame under a Land Rover is worth at least that, let alone the rest of the vehicle. You will also find that diesels are rather hard to find over here. They were never that popular. Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From LANDROVER@delphi.com Wed Oct 19 00:32:05 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 00:50:17 -0400 (EDT) From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Ray Harder Writes.... > > Lulu is sick again. > Snip...... > So now I think I have a broken rear axle shaft. Snip...... > So, question to the netters (having never done a broken > rear axle shaft) is the repair job just: > 1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates > the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off > the wheels). > 2. pulling out the axle half shaft. > 3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken > piece. > 4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. > 5. installation is the reverse of above. > That's about it, Ray... To be a little more technical, the "gizmo" in #1 is called a "drive flange" and the "pumpkin" in #3 is a differential (or diff for short). If you haven't done it yet, pull the axel half-shafts and find out if one *is* broken. > Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get > to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a > magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the > other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts > vendors advise. Any other information would be > appreciated. > Everybody has a favourite method.. What has worked for me is to pull out both axel half-shafts. Then I use a piece of steel rod about 3/8" in diameter to drive the broken bit out of the diff. You insert the rod in the side where the good axel shaft was and with the aid of a good flashlight, work the end of the rod into the diff where the axel was and then alongside the center spindle shaft. You should be able to make contact with the broken part of the other shaft. Give the rod a few good whacks and hopefully the broken stuff pops out. Then you can fish out the bits with a magnet. To be sure, you should open up the diff and inspect the works inside for damage and small bits of metal, but if your out in the middle of east no-where when you snap an axel you may be interested in getting the beastie mobile first. Now, if you can't pop out the broken part, then you have no choice but to open up the diff. > The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear > damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that > perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for > that carrier) interchange-able between the front and > rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting > around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in > the gearing. > I believe the front and rear diffs are interchangeable, assuming the axel gear ratios are the same. As to parts to get, you *should* replace both axel shafts at the same time. You are also going to need new gaskets for the drive flanges and a gasket for the differential. Good luck with it Cheers Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 04:50:23 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: please send items for the list to 'lro@team.net' Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 05:47:25 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message From: "R. Pierce Reid" <70004.4011@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Stars and Land Rovers Message-ID: <940927123507_70004.4011_FHT78-2@CompuServe.COM> Ian: You might want to consider putting Don Johnson and Melanie Griffith each with 1/2 a Range Rover... they just split up again. No, I really don't follow these things, but when there is the welfare of a Range Rover at stake... Great list Cheers, R. P. Reid ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 05:35:02 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: please send stuff for the list to 'lro@team.net' Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 06:32:48 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message From: "Jurgen Klus" Organization: Flinders University of S.Aust. To: owner-lro-digest@uk.stratus.com Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 14:07:29 GMT-0930 Subject: Fuel economy and engine oil Message-Id: <4EF6167102@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au> I've been reading with interest the economy that some of you are getting out of your V8 Discovery's Out of my 3.5 V8i 5 speed, I get 18.5-19 m.p.g. around town, and the same on a trip fully laden towing an off-road trailer. On a country trip without a trailer, I get between 23-27 m.p.g. I don't know what you do to get the mileage that you do! I use 92 octane unleaded. On the issue of oils I use Castrol RX-Super. I think its 15W40. Stay away from oils with detergents in them, as according to both Castrol and the Land Rover dealer, they sludge up the V8. I change the engine oil every 5,000 kilometres. Forget the breakdown of viscosity, that's almost irrelavent with todays oils. You need to get the corrosive by-products of combustion out e.g. sulphurs etc. regards Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! ------- End of Forwarded Message BTW: On my 3.5L 4spd w/OD, I've been getting about 4m/l or something like 18mi/imp.gal. (15mi/u.s.gal) (slightly better on the road, slightly worse about town/mixed driving) -B Cheers, --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com 1 3 dl OD L "Land Rover's first, becuase |--|--+ o | | Land Rovers last." 2 4 R N H '72 Range Rover ++ '69 S.IIa 88" From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 05:35:48 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net Subject: Discovery Steering box Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 06:33:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO ------- Forwarded Message From: "Jurgen Klus" Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:14:55 GMT-0930 Message-Id: <50157E20DB@psy1.ssn.flinders.edu.au> Our steering box leaked early in the cars life. It was replaced with a new improved one under warranty. No more leaks. Jurgen Klus Tel 618 201 2413 Fax 618 201 3877 When the going gets tough..the tough get Land Rover! ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 06:21:24 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:14:01 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: LRO Late Again To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO >> Morgan asks: >> Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? >> Russ replies: >> Not yet...... russ >> I'm in NJ and I haven't received my October issue yet either. I received November's LRW 2 1/2 weeks ago, however. I'll be calling LRO the first week in November if I still haven't received it. It won't be the first time. Bill Wayne, NJ USA 88 IIA & 109 Wagon maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 06:29:10 1994 Date: 19 Oct 94 07:22:51 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: B Wing writes : wanted 109 Status: RO Braham C Wing writes >Looking for a 1970 or earlier Series II 109 hardtop.... good body....chassis and body can be junk..... I have several 109's that have good bodies, chassis, and engine. All are in need of restoration work, but at least you are starting with something solid. I guess it really depends what type of budget you have to start with. We can get you a restorable land rover to your specs VERY reasonably here. Send me an Email with your specs and budget if your interested. Cheers Leslie From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 07:04:58 1994 Date: 19 Oct 94 07:58:05 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Hey Pierce.... also trailers and winches Status: RO ------------------------------------------------- FORWARDED MESSAGE - Orig: 19-Oct-94 10:53 Subject: mis-addressed mail From: William Caloccia > INTERNET:caloccia@sw.stratus.com To: Leslie Stutsman 100042,254 ------------------------------------------------- From: William Caloccia Hi Leslie, I as just going through the mail pile and found this messages, it was addressed to lro-request instead of lro@team.net or whatever. (>>>>Sometimes I really am a dumb****. Oh well....) << This might explain why it wasn't received as expected... Cheers, -Bill ------- Forwarded Message Hi Pierce Just read through a million digests - having fallen a bit behind. Yes I tried to locate your dad as well. I think we just kept missing each other. Anyway his vehicle was beautiful. I dont think it really matters that it is not all original. And yes I think we all know who you where talking about.... We didn't have much time in the states, just 2 days. But the canadian guys were great. I know it would not have been anywhere as much fun if it hadn't been for those guys. Loved the video of the b'day bash. We are a bit lacking in the 4WDing out here, unless you own a farm. Just went to Wales last weekend to do some 4wd ing. There is a pub that is out on a beach only accessable by 4wd. Lots of beaut Land rovers to look at! But that is the extent of our 4wding. Trailers - still have not seen a one for less than 250/300 pounds. Trailers are a pretty desired item and that keeps the price up I guess. I will be going to some auctions though, so maybe I will find one cheap there. Are you still interested?(Just located some near perfect ones, including some "tippers" for $300) BTW I have 3 winches that I am taking offers on: a hydraulic winch (hello DIXON..........) and another rated at 9000 pounds and includes the bumper attachments. The 3rd is a HUGE fairey PTO driven winch. Don't know what it is rated, gotta give Fairy a call, but I would say 12,000 plus. It came off a water board truck and it was used to haul trees out of rivers, etc. It includes the bumper mounting plate. Are you or anyone else interested? Email me an offer. (highest offer takes it of course) Did you go to the Virginia rally? Wish I could have gone.... ... Cheers Leslie ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 06:08:22 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 00:05:40 +1200 From: DAVID L DEAN Subject: Series I King Pins To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Reply-To: "David L. Dean" Organization: Lincoln University X-Envelope-To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.Net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Priority: normal Status: RO Series I Enthusiasts, I need to replace the kingpins on my 1956 SI LWB flatdeck. The local parts merchant in Christchurch (NZ) offered original (NZ$100), SII/III (NZ$120) or roller bearing units (NZ$150) from a RR? He said that if I put in the roller bearing units I would probably need to put in a steering damper to keep from losing knuckles offroad (not exactly a padded steering wheel). Any thoughts? FYI: NZ$1 = US$0.62 Also, I still contend that you could finance a trip to NZ with the savings on an old LR. I can get some current prices if anyone is interested.... Cheers, ------- (David L. Dean - Department of Economics & Marketing) ------- ----------- (Lincoln University, Canterbury, New Zealand) ----------- --- ("sober fearless pursuit of truth, beauty, & righteousness") ---- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 07:08:35 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:58:59 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Pumpkin Time For Lulu To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray relates the symptoms: >> ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large bumps under power... But it got worse with interesting symptoms: ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and I wasn't moving anywhere... ...It kept getting worse and worse. ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car and driver on dry pavement)... The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. >> If an axle shaft was broken you would have no drive in 2WD and little/no noise. Either the spider gears in your diff have worn to the point that they are jumping/skipping teeth in engagement with the pinion or crown gears or the locknut carrier has worked it's way loose (doing the same sort of damage). Different spider gears come into play when going around corners, so one side is worse than the other. As for "popping like a rachet" under load, the torque is transmitted to the weaker/damaged side- the side that will spin first. I'm afraid there's nothing for it but to replace the diff (all of the gears will probably be damaged at this point). I think the axles will come out easily. Removing the diff is not hard but it is heavy (at 60-70lbs, more than half my weight- and I've done it). Examine your axles for signs of twisting or wear in the splines. If not, they may be OK. >> >From that perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for that carrier) interchange-able between the front and rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in the gearing. >> Great! The diff in your spare front axle will probably be fine if it isn't filled with water. The ratio should be the same so there should be no problems. Order a diff gasket, a pair of hub gaskets, and a pair of the rubber/felt seals (you may want to replace the pinion seal and gasket at the same time while you have it out. Polish the surface on the flange that the seal rides against. It will probably be dirty/pitted/slightly scored). If you want to finish it this weekend and do not have the parts and if the rubber/felt seals are good and you are patient and the old gaskets come off in one piece, you can buy a roll of gasket material and cut them yourself (talk about run-on sentences!). While you're at it, remove the wheel hubs and once you have the diff and axles out, spray gunk in the rear axle case. Scrub it well and flush thouroughly with a hose. Then do it again until all of the filings have gone. You're going to find plenty. >> Good Luck! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 09:38:11 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 07:31:24 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: morgan@nature.Berkeley.EDU, lro@team.net Subject: Re: LROI ?????? Status: RO I've not seen it here in The City. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From maloney@wings.attmail.com Wed Oct 19 10:17:43 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 11:13:25 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Re: Pumpkin Time For Lulu To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO (Ray, I would have given you a direct response also the first time around but my mail header does not always give me a useable return address) >> But this baloney sounds interesting... I guess I (being naive) thought diffs only wore out slowly -- excess noise and slop. I didn't think they actually failed with slipping gears and broken teeth. >> You're right, they rarely do. >> When I got Lulu about 15k miles ago, the rear-diff was *low* on ep90, so I just topped it off and kept going. >> Oh, Oh... Sounds like the main box in my IIA. I drained about a cup of black oil(?) from it after I got it before I put it on the road. It went fine for about a year until BANG!!! went the layshaft, and GRIND, CHIP CHIP CHIP went 2nd and 3rd as I tried to figure out what was going on (I didn't know any better at the time). >> Me being a half-reared machanic, answer this: I ran out of time and didn't really want to do it, so I had a garage replace the pinon seal on this rear axle (about 2 months and 4k miles ago). I know there is a lock nut involved with that process. Could mis-adjustment of that job have caused rear-differential failure? >> If the lock nut has come undone, the pinion can shift in and out of the diff giving widely varying geartooth clearances. Unbolting your propshaft at the diff flange will confirm this. I'm not sure if this alone can change the clearance enough to jump gearteeth or to damage other items. >> OK, I get the joy of lugging this thing back from storage. >> I'd rather risk a hernia than lay out the $$$ for a new or used diff. But them again I'm economically challenged. >> My question on interchanging the pumpkin from the front to the rear was not related to gear ratios, but 1: will it bolt up >> Yup >> 2: are things turning in the right direction (front one being attached backwards compared to the rear). >> Yup (it really doesn't matter) >> 3: if thing *were* turning one direction will I now be turning things in a different direction with all kinds of wear and mating problems (remember, I am trying to be a mechanic, I am *not* one)... >> You've touched on an interesting point. Now that a front diff is in the back, the back surfaces of the gear teeth that are rarely used (and probably have very little wear - they only bear a load in reverse or when engine braking downhill in 4WD) will come into play. It may seem a tad noisy at first but should bed in quickly. Changing the diff oil a few hundred miles after installation should clear the majority of any bed-in filings from the diff (it's cheap insurance). More Baloney with Provalone from Maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 10:49:32 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:51:13 +0100 From: Peter van der Landen Subject: Discovery steering box etc. To: lro@team.NET X-Envelope-To: lro@team.NET Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT X-Popmail-Charset: English Status: RO The same thing happened to me. My may '92 Discovery TDI started leaking from the steering box after a few months. The garage fixed the seals. After a few months it leaked again, they fixed the seals again (under warranty). Then, after the warranty had expired and it started leaking again they replaced the steering box. They wanted me to pay for the labor but I was able to convince them that this would be a bit unreasonable. Since then I've had no problems with leaking. In case you are interested, I've had the following repairs up until now: - - Leaking steering box (fixed under warranty). - - A leak in the hydraulic system of the clutch. (this one got me stranded, fixed under warranty). - - Malfunctioning doorlock. (fixed) Not too bad, I guess... Peter van der Landen - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Centre for Computers and Law, L7-60, Erasmus University, Rotterdam, Holland Tel 31-10-4082187 (home 2331650) Fax 31-10-4532920 (home 2331215) - -------------------- E-mail Landen@cir.frg.eur.nl --------------------------- Peter van der Landen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Centre for Computers and Law, L7-60, Erasmus University, Rotterdam, Holland Tel 31-10-4082187 (home 2331650) Fax 31-10-4082920 (home 2331215) -------------------- E-mail Landen@cir.frg.eur.nl --------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 11:07:09 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 09:03:26 -0700 From: "TeriAnn Wakeman" Reply-To: "TeriAnn Wakeman" To: 75126.1123@compuserve.com, lro@stratus.com Subject: Re: ROAV Mid-Atlantic Rally Status: RO In message <941019012243_75126.1123_FHD112-5@CompuServe.COM> Keith Steele writes: > acceptable shape. The problem was that the head gasket was burned through (1 > inch section was entirely missing) at the narrowest point between #1 and 2 > cylinders allowing the gasses to go back and forth freely between the > cylinders. > I will send the head to British Rovers for repair and a valve job. Hopefully > the Rover will be back on the road in two or three weeks. > > Keith Steele > 75126.1123@compuserve.com > 72' Series III 88 since new Keith, I assume you will be checking both the head and block for warpage. Also look at the metal at the edge of head stud, & bolt holes. If it has pulled up at all, you will not get a proper gasket seal. If you have this problem (common from over torquing), you can make a short counter sink at the edge of the hole. Also, clean off the surfaces and inspect for possible cracks. Something was not right to have caused a head gasket to fail. After you get on the road, when you retorque the head, be sure to losen the head bolt slightly before retorquing it. Otherwise you will get a false reading. Good luck & glad your LR got you home. TeriAnn Wakeman Large format photographers look at the world twakeman@apple.com upside down and backwards LINK: TWAKEMAN 408-974-2344 TR3A - TS75519L, MGBGT - GHD4U149572G, Land Rover 109 - 164000561 From CXKS46A@prodigy.com Wed Oct 19 11:13:04 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 12:11:55 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: Bad breaks Status: RO Ray...when an axle goes, you stop. I've broken two, curiously always around town and never out low gear rock crawling, loaded to the gunwales with camping stuff. To "spread the load", I almost always use 4WD on any long uphill, gravel road. Several thoughts on axles. If one breaks, replace the other as well. it is not "crystalization" as TeriAnn would say, rather simple stress/metal fatigue. If refitting an axle, scratch a longitudinal line down the length of the axle with a file. If you pull the axle at any time in the future and find a twisted line, you know it's been stressed. Arrange for the axle to break at a convenient place: the hub flange. On a lathe, mill a groove just smaller than the teeth on the diff end (where mine always break). That way, you can snatch out the broken shaft with pliers and be going again in ten minutes. If it does break amd you don't want to do an immediate, on-the-spot rebuild, pull both half-shafts and drop the rear prop shaft. Bang it into 4WD (now front wheel drive) and head home. You have to isolate the rear diff to prevent swarf damage. Typically, when the shaft breaks (unless you are very, *very* lucky) the metal around the break expands. Usually, you have to disassemble the diff as you can't get a straight shot at it with the spider gears in the way. One time though, I was able to drill a hole in the broken stub and use the slide hammer to drift the little bugger out. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net Wed Oct 19 11:36:53 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 09:38:49 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu From: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net (Granville Pool) Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... Cc: lro@team.net Status: RO Ray Harder writes: >Lulu is sick again. > ...Popping noises when going around corners or over large > bumps under power... >But it got worse with interesting symptoms: > ...Once when I went up a steep grade from a standing stop > it started popping like a rachet on a socket drive and > I wasn't moving anywhere... > ...It kept getting worse and worse. > ...No noises as above when 4wd engaged (but hard on car > and driver on dry pavement)... >is the repair job just: >1. a matter of taking off the bolts to the gizmo that mates > the shaft to the rear hub (don't even need to take off > the wheels). >2. pulling out the axle half shaft. >3. taking off the "pumpkin" and fishing out the broken > piece. >4. cleaning out all metal bits from the axle oil-sump. >5. installation is the reverse of above. > >Is there anyway to avoid taking off the "pumpkin" to get >to the broken piece (any way to fish it out with say a >magnet or something)? Do I really need to "replace the >other side as it is likely weak, too" as the parts >vendors advise. Any other information would be >appreciated. > >The other possibility is pinion shaft and crown wheel gear >damage but I am leaning towards the axle shaft. From that >perspective, is the "pumpkin" (what is the proper name for >that carrier) interchange-able between the front and >rear axles on a SII 88? I have a good front axle setting >around and my current rear axle has a lot of slop in >the gearing. It could be lots of things but sounds to me like the trouble is in the diff and don't delay in repairing it; it will get a lot more expensive. Should take it apart in any case to see what it really is and let us all know. I recently had a diff fail due to shearing off of all the crown wheel bolts! Yours could be doing that and you could stop it before they all go. [In my case I was rather lucky: Although one bit blew through the case and so will have to be welded, remarkably, the gears are all undamaged.] Sounds more likely, though that it is in one or more of the gears... Yes, replace both axle shafts (even if the trouble is in the diff, most likely they've been under undue strain and they're cheap to replace) and make very sure you only get the genuine ones. The reason this is so important, I found out the hard way, is that non-genuine ones have the nasty habit of fraying when they break and, in so doing, cause the carrier bearings to freeze up and then spin in their races. As a result of this lesson, I have an otherwise dandy diff which needs to be rebuilt one of these days (no rush, as I have a supply of spare diffs). And, yes, it is necessary to remove the differential "pumkin." It's no big deal, really. Now, if you had a Salisbury axle, removing the diff is somewhat of a big deal. Speaking of which, if the worst is the case (lunched diff) you could do worse than, as TerriAnn suggests, fitting a Salisbury axle. They're damned expensive in the U.S. but I have seen them advertised very cheaply in LRO magazine, PRB Services comes particularly to mind but I believe there are several cheap suppliers. Of course, if you have a spare diff (in your spare front axle) that would be the cheapest solution for now. And, indeed, even if your trouble is not anything broken in the diff, replace it with that good spare (Yes the front and rear --assuming both are Rover-type axles--interchange.), as the "slop" will eventually lead to breakage. If that sloppy diff is not broken, get it out while rebuilding it will be cheaper, with just new bearings, seals, and "set-up" labor, rather than a bunch of broken (expensive) gears. Keep us posted on your trouble-shooting. Thanks. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [ Granville Pool (Redwood Valley, CA) Appraiser, R/W Agent, LR aficionado ] [ e-mail: mcdpw@pacific.pacific.net ** Ph:(707)485-7220 H,(707)463-4265 W ] From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 13:00:27 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:42:58 EDT From: sat@eng.tridom.com (Stephen Thomas) To: lro@team.net Subject: Flashing Rover Update Cc: lisat@american.megatrends.com Status: RO Gentle Readers: Just in case any of you were losing sleep ;^) , my Disco now flashes its parking lights appropriately. A new relay did the trick. This thread got me thinking a little, though. Perhaps there's an opportunity for those of you who own real (old) Land Rovers to help out those of us just starting out. There are lots of little, semi-clever things that a Discovery does to make things more convenient for its owner. We know how these features work as long as the vehicle's under warranty. What we don't know is how they'll work the day after the warranty expires. Thus your opportunity. Here are several of these features, and a description of how they work now. Other Disco owners should feel free to chime in. (In addition, if you have any clues as to *why* the Disco does some of these things, please enlighten us.) Parking Lights and Alarm, during warranty: When the alarm is armed (via locking the driver's door or using the remote), the parking lights flash three times. When the alarm is disarmed, the lights flash once. Parking Lights and Alarm, after warranty: ??? Dome Light, during warranty: The interior lights do not immediately extinguish once all doors are closed. Instead, they remain lit until the ignition is started, or until a small amount of time has elapsed. Furthermore, they are not turned off "all at once"; rather, they are gradually dimmed. Dome Light, after warranty: ??? Turn Signal and Trailer, during warranty: In addition to the standard turn signal indicator on the dash, there's an auxiliary indicator for a towed trailer's turn signals. When no trailer is attached, this auxiliary indicator flashes exactly one time when you activate the turn signal. If a trailer is attached, the auxiliary indicator continues to flash in sync with the standard indicator. Turn Signal and Trailer, after warranty: ??? Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, during warranty: If you activate the turn signal and one of the turn signal lamps has burned out (or has a poor connection), the turn signal indicator flashes at twice its normal rate. Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, after warranty: ??? Door Locks and Alarm, during warranty: If you attempt to arm the alarm and one of the doors is still ajar, the alarm delays its arming for 30 seconds. If the door remains ajar, the alarm arms for all other doors. (And, incidently, does not flash the parking lights.) Here's the fun part: If, however, you close the offending door before 30 seconds pass, the alarm (1) immediately unlocks *all* doors, (2) waits 30 more seconds, (3) locks all doors, and (4) arms the alarm as normal. (This can easily convince you of the existance of poltergeists; I speak from experience here.) Door Locks and Alarm, after warranty: ??? Well, that's probably enough frivolous bandwidth for now. I'm sure other Disco owners can add to the list. Waiting expectantly for any followups.... _____________________________________________ Stephen Thomas AT&T Tridom (404-514-3522) email: sat@eng.tridom.com, attmail!tridom!sat From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 14:39:42 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:14:29 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Disco Post Warrranty Post Mortem To: LRO@stratus.com, sat@eng.tridom.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Stephen asks: >> Perhaps there's an opportunity for those of you who own real (old) Land Rovers to help out those of us just starting out. There are lots of little, semi-clever things that a Discovery does to make things more convenient for its owner. We know how these features work as long as the vehicle's under warranty. What we don't know is how they'll work the day after the warranty expires. Parking Lights and Alarm, during warranty: When the alarm is armed (via locking the driver's door or using the remote), the parking lights flash three times. When the alarm is disarmed, the lights flash once. Parking Lights and Alarm, after warranty: >> Alarm will short out = No Problem >> Dome Light, during warranty: The interior lights do not immediately extinguish once all doors are closed. Instead, they remain lit until the ignition is started, or until a small amount of time has elapsed. Furthermore, they are not turned off "all at once"; rather, they are gradually dimmed. Dome Light, after warranty: >> Dome light will burn out = No Problem >> Turn Signal and Trailer, during warranty: In addition to the standard turn signal indicator on the dash, there's an auxiliary indicator for a towed trailer's turn signals. When no trailer is attached, this auxiliary indicator flashes exactly one time when you activate the turn signal. If a trailer is attached, the auxiliary indicator continues to flash in sync with the standard indicator. Turn Signal and Trailer, after warranty: >> Axle will separate from trailer during a downhill run, rolling both Disco & trailer = No more Problem >> Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, during warranty: If you activate the turn signal and one of the turn signal lamps has burned out (or has a poor connection), the turn signal indicator flashes at twice its normal rate. Turn Signal and Dead Lamps, after warranty: >> Dead Lamp will burn out, backup lights will light when you use the directionals, and confused semi driver will rear end you = No more Problem >> Door Locks and Alarm, during warranty: If you attempt to arm the alarm and one of the doors is still ajar, the alarm delays its arming for 30 seconds. If the door remains ajar, the alarm arms for all other doors. (And, incidently, does not flash the parking lights.) Here's the fun part: If, however, you close the offending door before 30 seconds pass, the alarm (1) immediately unlocks *all* doors, (2) waits 30 more seconds, (3) locks all doors, and (4) arms the alarm as normal. (This can easily convince you of the existance of poltergeists; I speak from experience here.) Door Locks and Alarm, after warranty: >> Car thief with tow truck will set off alarm. Annoyed neighbors will assist car thief with vehicle removal = No more Problem A lotta Baloney on Wry from maloney maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 14:30:04 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 13:17:13 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@team.net Subject: Final Assy Status: RO People, I have several questions for the collective wisdom on the net: In the final stages of assy. for my 69 engine and the new cam chainwheel does not have the same P markings as the original. Did a stare and compare and think I have it correctly positioned. When I trial fitted the wheel for the cam end-float it is so tight that I could not get it to butt up against the cam shaft thrust plate. The way it is now there is .003 mm out on the end-float spec. Can the thrust plate be shimmed or can a thicker thrust plate be had or is the wheel not pressed on enough. It is really hard to tell. What to do gang? Or can I run safely with the chainwheel cam shaft end-float that far off? Any help would be nice. This thing is getting close and it has been too long without a running Rover. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What end-float measurement? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 15:40:54 1994 From: "Walter C. Swain" Subject: Re: Final Assy To: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com (ROY CALDWELL) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <9410191917.AA15035@mtnoca.helena_noc> from "ROY CALDWELL" at Oct 19, 94 01:17:13 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 949 Status: RO > > People, > > In the final stages of assy. for my 69 engine and the > new cam chainwheel does not have the same P markings > as the original. Did a stare and compare and think I > have it correctly positioned. When I trial fitted the > wheel for the cam end-float it is so tight that I could > not get it to butt up against the cam shaft thrust plate. > The way it is now there is .003 mm out on the end-float spec. > Can the thrust plate be shimmed or can a thicker thrust > plate be had or is the wheel not pressed on enough. It > is really hard to tell. What to do gang? Or can I run > safely with the chainwheel cam shaft end-float that far off? > > Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What end-float measurement? > (can't resist) Ahem... I'd suggest that being all of .003 mm out of spec is not only acceptable, but not measurable. Is there perhaps a decimal point out of place??? A unit out of wack??? Something amiss??? Walt Swain From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:14:43 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 15:49:00 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Allison Ignition To: maloney Cc: LRO@stratus.com In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Re broken axle. I had some problems with broken axles some 15 years ago and I wrote to Land Rover to complain about the crystalization I noticed in the shafts. I received the following reply. Our axles are designed to fail! Would you want to replace a $75 axle or a $750 diff. The crystalization is a heat treated area meant to fail under overstress conditions and is in fact the weak link in the drive train. The area was designed to let go in such a manner that there would be a clean break and there would be a piece of shaft left that could be removed easily from the carrier assembly. The pieces in my experience came away just as Land Rover said and in fact I didn't replace them with real shafts but instead had my machinest friend put new roll stock between the splines and used that for axles. Of course I had to be careful because now I didn't have a weak link any longer. There are at least 5 of my old Rovers still driving on these axles. My machinest friend told me that if he had to make the splines there was no way he could under price a new axle because of the set up time to cut the splines. However if I took the splines in it was child's play to weld in a new round shaft. While on the subject, Land Rover told me they didn't have many broken shafts till someone invented the free wheeling hub. People often forgot they were not locked in and shifted into four wheel drive. This put tremendous stress on only the back drive system and lets the front system spin freely without load. In Canada where our side streets are often ice covered in winter and the main streets are dry, you can get up quite a spin on the back wheels even in two wheel drive only to hit the dry surface and suddenly no drive. I had this happen twice before I got smart and left the vehicle in hub locked position all winter. No more broken shafts. For anyone on a tight budget, don't throw away the splines, you can probably save at least 50% by just getting some rolled shaft material and welding it in place of the broken shaft. Some one asked about the spray foam to dampen noise in the rover. I used a heavy rubber pad available from auto supply houses made for the purpose. They have sticky stuff on one side and the other side can get wet etc. without problems. One of our fellows used the spray foam you get in tins for insulation, but I wouldn't recommend it because it crumbles and makes a mess. I don't think I would want a fire with that stuff in, you probably wouldn't live. I think the tin foil covered stuff you can get from the autowreckers is the best stuff. It is usually used under the hood to dampen noise. Most wreckers will give it to you free since at least in Canada, you have to remove this "fluff" before a steel mill will take the car as meltable scrap. I have received both carpet ($5 for all I could carry) and this insulation just by asking. I think I mentioned the hatch back Pinto has just a wonderful carpet for the Land Rover. The black is like factory and it fills the back of an 88 like it was made for it. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:14:23 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 17:07:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Jon Humphrey To: LRO@stratus.com, sat@eng.tridom.com, maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Subject: Re: Disco Post Warrranty Post Mortem In-Reply-To: Status: RO Here we go---A lotta Baloney on Wry from maloney >Parking Lights and Alarm, after warranty: >Alarm will short out = No Problem What is an alarm?????? >Dome Light, after warranty: >Dome light will burn out = No Problem What is this thing you call a "Dome Light"????? >Turn Signal and Trailer, after warranty: >Axle will separate from trailer during a downhill run, rolling both Disco & >trailer = No more Problem I suppose he has those fancy new fangled self canceling turn signals too!!! >Door Locks and Alarm, after warranty: >Car thief with tow truck will set off alarm. Annoyed neighbors will assist >car thief with vehicle removal = No more Problem No self respecting car thief would look at my vehicle=NO PROBLEM AT ALL Cheers Jon # # # # # # # # # # # # # >>> ================\ "YOU MUsT REMEMBER THIS" |----------||@ \\ ___ *^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* |____|_____|||_/_\\_|___|_ It ain't nezezzarily so! <| ___\ || | ____ | --->>Elysium ++++++++++ <| / |___||_____|/ | | = = = = = = = = = = = = = >> ||/ O |__________/ O |_|| jh5r+@andrew.cmu.edu \___/ LAND ROVER \___/ /~~~~~~//~~~~~~~/ @ / // / _/~\/ 67-RED 109" []]]]]]]]]]]------/ _| ROADSTER PICKUP []]]]]]]]]]]=======|_____========((==| WITH A GUMMY MAN ____=========_____------| | | IN THE BACK | |/|@) (@| | | | | | ** |/| || | * * | ___ | | __ | | |/||||||| |{ \____|_____/ \ | |____|/|_____|_____|[ }\_________} ]\_|| |___________________|[ } |[ ] \ / \ \ / \\ } ~~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~~ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:59:51 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 16:39:32 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Final Assy To: "Walter C. Swain" Cc: ROY CALDWELL , lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <199410192031.UAA27714@w112dcascr.wr.usgs.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I just went out and measured a Land Rover engine in my shop with a dial gauge and the end play was 6 thou. The acceptable play is from .0025 to .00555 or .06 mm to .14 mm. Personally I don't think you will notice anything between your end play and a new thrust plate but if you have the bucks get a new one. Usually there is so much play in the links of the timing chain, yes even a new one, that that tiny difference won't be noticeable. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 18:16:46 1994 Date: 19 Oct 94 18:59:03 EDT From: Leslie from Florida & Liverpool <100042.254@compuserve.com> To: Subject: Land Rover 4 sale Status: RO I believe I have spoken to all of you who want to come and view the vehicle. If I have missed any of you (sorry) and here are the details: The Land Rover will be available for viewing at the Newark Airport Ramada from 9:30 to 2:30 this Saturday. I will be starting my journey to Massachusetts that evening. If you are interested in viewing can you please leave a message for me at the Ramada 201-824-4000. Here are the details again: A Refurbished 88" short wheel base (1960) Series II a.k.a. " Gyndwr " (Glendower)- chassis excellent. Genuine bronze green (enamel paint) body, limestone top and wheels. Reconditioned 2.25 liter petrol engine. New clutch, battery, oil pump, road springs, brake pipes, shock absorbers, carburettor, etc. Spare tire on bonnet with tire cover. New custom heavy duty grey carpeted interior throughout, fully soundproofed, with rubber mat payload in rear. Free wheeling hubs, heater, headliner and interior side trim , 2 rear spotlights, (5) 600X16 tires, new Land Rover logo mudflaps. 7 seater - all new deluxe Land Rover black front seats (3 in front) with 2 new inward facing bench seats in back. New rubber seals on all doors. Rear Safari door with hard top. Hand throttle. Antenna - wired for radio. New front door tops/bottoms and footwells. Wire lamp guards. Tow hitched front and rear, with wiring. More....... New workshop manual (still sealed) & UK/USA parts catalogues supplied. $8400. If you are still interested in seeing the 88" leave a message on 508-385-6632 or ring the Ramada after 9pm tomorrow...... Cheers, Leslie Stutsman UK Land Rovers --> Import/Export !^NavFont01F0007jLdHL394E61 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 18:44:31 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Nige stops 'em Dead To: lro@team.net Date: Wed, 19 Oct 94 19:22:13 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Last night me and daNige found ourselves in Manhattan (THE CITY) stopped at a light. Light turns green and a cab shoots by on the right side, bolts in front of us, and slams on the brakes. Nigel's four 10" drums manage to stop us on a quarter and we breath a sigh of relief. No sooner is half the breath out than another cab slams into our rear end. Quite hard, in fact. So, we pull over to inspect the damage and an arguement with a Jamaican driver ensues....... "Luke at what you done to my cab, man!" "Ah, let's get something straight-YOU hit me." "But it is your fault-you stopped in road." "I stopped because one of your pals cut in front of me and stopped short. I managed to stop, with thirty year old brakes, but you didn't. Again, YOU hit me......ask any cop and he'll tell you if you hit someone in the rear, it is solely your fault." "I don't want to talk to policeman......" "OH, what do you want, then?" "I want you should pay for my headlight and for the damage to my front end." "Fergettit, pal. Your fault, not mine. Look, I'm prepared to live with the new dent in my rear end (it balances out the other side, now) and I hope you're prepared to live without your headlamp. If not, then we can get the cops involved-they'll straighten you out." At this point, cops were strolling down the sidewalk, his passenger had grown impatient, and he realized he was fighting a loosing battle. I was late for dinner, didn't care to get insurance companies much less cops involved, and couldn't imagine how I'd ever get an insurance adjuster to believe ALL those dents were done at once. "Later." and we were on our way. rd/nige From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 20:27:20 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 20:14:27 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Land Rover TV show To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. Every shot had a Land Rover 110 doing its thing, in fact the vehicles became the stars of the production. I managed to record only about 40 minutes of it, but the first ten minutes are nothing but Land Rover shots so I missed the best part to tape. I am looking forward to seeing it again. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 23:40:14 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 22:39:16 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "David John Place" at Oct 19, 94 08:14:27 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 478 Status: RO Dave Place writes: < I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New < Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul < Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. Like, where & when, dude? 500 channels and nothing good to watch. It's easy to miss these things. T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 07:54:39 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: lro@team.net X-Copyright-1994: William Caloccia, All Rights Reserved. Subject: LRO List Administrivia Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 08:02:31 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Well, if it (the list, etc.) breaks If you decide you must urgently leave the list, etc. ==>> It just won't happen until next month. <<== I'm off to Interops the beginning of next week, and hope I remember enough French from grade school to get by. The end of the next week, I've got an all expense paid trip to some part of Herefordshire that will undoubtedly be wet and cold then, (and require wearing wellies) for a corporate 'team build', (I suggested a programme at an off-road centre, but that didn't make it.) If any of you are headed there I'm supposed to be booked into the Hotel Adagio Nanterre, from Sunday, and I'll be leaving Wednesday. Cheers, -B From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 07:54:39 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:08:06 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: Cam Timing To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Roy, David's advice on the end float was spot on. You really should follow the manual to confirm that the timing mark on the cam chain wheel is correct. To measure the lift on a certain cam lobe (I've forgotten which-it's in the manual), rotate the sprocket until the cam (cam lobe) reaches fully open, then turn the cam back slightly. Using a dial gauge to measure the lift on the lobe, rotate it towards fully open. At .005 (.007 or any other figure will work as long as it's consistent fore and aft) prior to fully open (fully open lasts awhile-you'll need to rotate it to the high point first to determine the setting on the dial gauge) stop and scribe or marker a mark on the chain wheel in alignment with one of the timing cover bolt holes (it's illustrated in the manual). Continue turning until you pass the highpoint then at .005 past, stop and scribe or marker another mark on the timing gear. Bisect the two and you have your timing mark for the timing gear. Align that mark as stated in the manual and rotate your crank to TDC. Now fit your timing chain. If it is slightly off, try to bias it in such a way so that the straight line of chain between the crank and the cam is shorter, in other words the cam mark is slightly to the right. By doing so, as the timing chain stretches it will come more into alignment rather than going out of alignment. All of this makes more sense when it's in front of you than when trying to visualize it. Don't be afraid to give Rovers North a call. They can walk you right through the procedure. Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com I have several questions for the collective wisdom on the net: In the final stages of assy. for my 69 engine and the new cam chainwheel does not have the same P markings as the original. Did a stare and compare and think I have it correctly positioned. When I trial fitted the wheel for the cam end-float it is so tight that I could not get it to butt up against the cam shaft thrust plate. The way it is now there is .003 mm out on the end-float spec. Can the thrust plate be shimmed or can a thicker thrust plate be had or is the wheel not pressed on enough. It is really hard to tell. What to do gang? Or can I run safely with the chainwheel cam shaft end-float that far off? Any help would be nice. This thing is getting close and it has been too long without a running Rover. Roy - Rovers in the Rockies - What end-float measurement? From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 19 16:01:43 1994 Date: Wed, 19 Oct 1994 13:52:00 +0800 From: William.Grouell@Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) To: lro@team.net, sat@eng.tridom.com Subject: Re: Flashing Rover Update Cc: lisat@american.megatrends.com X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Content-Length: 1266 Status: RO > Gentle Readers: > > Just in case any of you were losing sleep ;^) , my Disco now > flashes its parking lights appropriately. A new relay did the trick. > > This thread got me thinking a little, though. Perhaps there's an > opportunity for those of you who own real (old) Land Rovers to > help out those of us just starting out. There are lots of little, > semi-clever things that a Discovery does to make things more, yack yack... The light on my fuel gage ('64 88") comes on 7 to 10 seconds after the rest of the dash lights. It has done this consistantly for 29 years after the warranty ran out. This is the original Lucas bulb. How do they do this? Why do they do this? I believe this feature was an option in only this model year. The purpose is, of course fuel savings. To wit; You will naturally not need to check fuel until after you are actually underway, but before you reach the end of the cul-de-sac, so you will know to turn left, toward the free-way on ramp, or right to go to the service station. Therefore there would be no reason to waste energy on this function for some short time after "switch on." I did not order the truck, but I think the delay was to be specified at the time of order, to suit individual circumstances. R, bg From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:22:28 1994 Date: 20 Oct 94 11:10:10 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re:Flashing Rover Update Status: RO Most of the Disco-gizmos Stephen relates to are also implemented in the 87' Range Rover Efi I recently purchased. Assuming their design hasn't changed too much over the years (which, in the case of Land Rovers, is highly unlikely), perhaps we can infer from Range to Discovery: > When the alarm is armed (via locking the driver's door or > using the remote), the parking lights flash three times. The old Range doesn't implement this feature (the squeaking suspension is alarm enough). > The interior lights do not immediately extinguish once all > doors are closed. Instead, they remain lit until the ignition > is started, or until a small amount of time has elapsed. ... ... > In addition to the standard turn signal indicator on the > dash, there's an auxiliary indicator for a towed trailer's > turn signals. When no trailer is attached, this auxiliary The Range has both these features, and the still function perfectly after now 7 years. > If you activate the turn signal and one of the turn signal > lamps has burned out (or has a poor connection), the turn > signal indicator flashes at twice its normal rate. This feature even still works like this on my 22-year old 109 Station! In other words: " DON'T WORRY ... BE HAPPY ... (while you can) ... tralala ... boop... boop" Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:27:46 1994 Date: 20 Oct 94 11:18:03 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Rover Mailing List Subject: Email Status: RO Bill Maloney I don't like sending personal Email through the list but I'am about of options. For some reason compuserve will not allow mail to an ATT mail system to be sent through the internet. To an ATT mail system I need to use the x400 system. If you know what your x400 system address is please send it to me. For you to send me mail directly from an ATT system you will need to use my x400 address. My x400 address is country=us ADMD=compuserve PRMD=csmail DDA=75126,1123 See you at the rally next year hopefully Keith Steele 75126.1123@compuserve.com '72 Series III 88 since new From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:40:38 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 08:34:59 -0700 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: lro@team.net From: jimmyp@netcom.com (Jimmy Patrick) Subject: LRO late again Status: RO >Has anyone here on the left coast received the October issue >of LRO magazine yet? Should I assault the postman? You all should assault someone, I think you should have the mag by now. We got the November Issue of LRO today over here (uk). From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:44:38 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 08:41:59 MST From: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV To: lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu Subject: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy Status: RO FROM: David Brown Internet: debrown@srp.gov Computer Graphics Specialist * Mapping Services & Engr Graphics PAB204 (602)236-3544 - Pager:6486 External (602)275-2508 #6486 SUBJECT: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy Has anyone converted to a dual battery setup for a Disco? Where did you put it? Please advise!!! I "NEED" to do this, as I've started to install the overindulgence of lights ;-) and will be installing a winch by next summer. As for the question on fuel economy, I have ranged from 11.5 to 12.8 around the city. (Automatic trans.) THIS IS IN U.S. MILES AND GALLONS. Jurgen, would you please clarify your measuring units? Is that kilometers per imperial gallon? Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of measure used. Thanks, #=====# Never doubt that a small group of individuals |___|__\___ can change the world... indeed, it's the only | | | | thing that ever has. ""O""""""O"" -Margaret Mead From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 11:51:47 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 12:48:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Re: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy To: DEBROWN@srp.gov Cc: lro@team.net, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, Guy Kawasaki In-Reply-To: <199410201542.LAA15397@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 1226 Status: RO David Laments: > As for the question on fuel economy, I have ranged from 11.5 to 12.8 > around the city. (Automatic trans.) THIS IS IN U.S. MILES AND GALLONS. Harry responds: As I reported earlier, I have been getting 15-16 city and 17-19 highway (in U.S. miles per gallon). We have the 5-speed and have been paying close attention to keeping the tach between 2000 and 3000 RPM, which is where the engine is most fuel efficient. Have you tried using "3" or "2" rather than "D" when in traffic? One other thing... I am also getting ready to switch over to synthetic engine and differential oil, which, hopefully, may help as well. Harry P.S. If you start putting lights on the roof rack, expect a further decline in fuel economy. Sorry. ______________________________________________________________________ Harry G. Greenspun, M.D. The Johns Hopkins Hospital Office: (410) 955-1337 Division of Cardiac Anesthesia Fax: (410) 955-0994 Tower 711 Paging: (410) 955-6070 Baltimore, MD 21287-8711 Internet: hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu ______________________________________________________________________ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 11:56:19 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:05:01 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: land-rover-owner@team.net Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 17:05:34 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: RR Malady Priority: normal Status: RO > It seems that the drivers' door lock is an actuator, with all of the other > locks solenoids. Whilst you sleep (curioisly, this always happens at night > when no one is around to observe), the actuator fails/shorts, cycling all > of the other locks until something else burns out or the battery dies. > Methinks this part must be of Lucas manufacture. Reminds me of a problem an ex-boss had with his fancy BMW: He locked the doors, set the alarm and went on holiday for 2 weeks. When he came back the alarm was unset & all the doors were unlocked! After the palpitations has settled, he investigated properly and found that the battery had gone flat. (no juice = no alarm & no active door-locks :-) The next problem was getting to the battery: He had to park the car off-centre in the garage (the car was so wide he needed the make space to open the drivers door) and was unable to open the passenger rear door to lift the rear seat to get to the battery. Kneeling on the other half of the seat gave the wrong position to lift out the battery (this thing was a big 800aH battery!?) He was unable to start the car to drive it out (backwards and uphill) and pushing it was also out was a No-No. In the end he had to call the breakdown services (not a member) to drag the car up the hill AND buy a new battery. The question are: did BMW use Lucas systems and will this affect the new LR models? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 12:08:25 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:05:40 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: CXKS46A@prodigy.com, land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Re: RR Malady Status: RO Thanks for the tip; I haven't (yet) experienced this particular malady on mine but HAVE experienced the annoying malady of post-desert lockup syndrome in which one or more of the doorlocks won't unlock (using the solenoids activated by the driver's door lock) after roving around dusty deserts. As near as I can determine, it seems to be a design flaw in the plastic inside lock levers and their guides; it can often be cured by blowing air into them and lubricating them with graphite. The solenoids themselves seem to activate merrily but somehow don't manage to push the lever up enough, seemingly due to the angle at which they are pushing. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 12:13:47 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:08:31 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com, lro@team.net Subject: Re:Flashing Rover Update Status: RO I can second Stefan's remarks here -- most of the said features are used on RRs and mine have (so far) given no trouble. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 12:15:46 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 10:10:39 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: DEBROWN@SRP.GOV, Offroad@ai.gtri.gatech.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: Disco dual batteries / fuel economy Status: RO Your 11.5 to 12.8 mpg around the city is about what I get on my 89 Range Rover with the same engine and an automatic. John Brabyn From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 10:20:41 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: Nige stops 'em Dead From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 08:46:04 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO "Russell G. Dushin" writes: > "Fergettit, pal. Your fault, not mine. Look, I'm prepared to live with the > new dent in my rear end (it balances out the other side, now) and I hope > you're prepared to live without your headlamp. If not, then we can get the > cops involved-they'll straighten you out." > > At this point, cops were strolling down the sidewalk, his passenger had > grown impatient, and he realized he was fighting a loosing battle. I was late > for dinner, didn't care to get insurance companies much less cops involved, > and couldn't imagine how I'd ever get an insurance adjuster to believe ALL > those dents were done at once. I thought the Jamacian got all pissed off with ol nige and walked around it Bates style beating it with his fists, lightly in some spots, heavily in others. All the dents were done at once, or at least looked at. Surely insurance would believe you then, especially if the police were witnesses. At the very least, the dent in the rear crossmember *may* have slightly thrown the adjustment out on the frame. A new frame is obviously required. Rgds, Dixon PS, you need a big pintle hook on the back. You could have taken out his radiator while you were at it... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 09:45:10 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 10:37:53 EDT From: CXKS46A@prodigy.com (MR ALEXANDER P GRICE) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: RR Malady Status: RO In talking to one of the service reps at the Mid-Atlantic Rally, he mentioned a curious malady endemic only to the '89 Range Rovers: door locks with a mind of their own. It seems that the drivers' door lock is an actuator, with all of the other locks solenoids. Whilst you sleep (curioisly, this always happens at night when no one is around to observe), the actuator fails/shorts, cycling all of the other locks until something else burns out or the battery dies. Methinks this part must be of Lucas manufacture. *----"Jeep may be famous, LAND-ROVER is Legendary"-----* | | | Sandy Grice, Rover Owners' Association of Virginia | | E-Mail: CXKS46A@prodigy.com FAX: 804-622-7056 | | Voice: 804-622-7054 (Days) 804-423-4898 (Evenings) | | 1633 Melrose Pkwy., Norfolk, VA, 23508-1730 USA | *------------------------------------------------------* From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 14:45:10 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 15:42:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Disco Oil Change To: Land Rover BBS Cc: David Brown Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 450 Status: RO A quick note on the first oil change for the Disco: The undercoating is sprayed on with the oil plug in. Consequently, the plug is nearly impossible to remove the first time without a really big wrench (1 1/8"). In addition, you can't use a socket, because the exhaust pipe gets in the way. Once you have wrestled the plug out, the copper washer will be rigidly adherent to it. After that, smooth sailin'. Enjoy, Harry '94 Discovery From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 15:57:34 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 15:46:37 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: "T.F. Mills" Cc: David John Place , lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: <199410200439.WAA23749@mercury.cair.du.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Well in our area the public television network is Prairie Public TV. In your area, I guess you would have to consult your public TV station. It is one of the shows they produce as part of the public TV consortium. We watch the North Dakota TV as well as Detroit, so if they are carrying it you should have no problems finding it in your area Tom. The name New Explorers is the title of a weekly series and the one I am talking about is the premier one for this season. Sorry I can't tell you more but I seem to recall that your neck of the woods has a big Public TV system that looks after 4 or 5 states. Dave VE4PN On Wed, 19 Oct 1994, T.F. Mills wrote: > Dave Place writes: > > < I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New > < Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul > < Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. > > Like, where & when, dude? 500 channels and nothing good to watch. > It's easy to miss these things. > > > T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu > University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 16:27:15 1994 Date: 20 Oct 94 17:18:48 EDT From: Keith Steele <75126.1123@compuserve.com> To: Rover Mailing List Subject: Stainless window channels Status: RO While my Rover is down awaiting a head rebuild I want to replace the totally rusted window channels. At the ROAV rally several people had replaced the Rover parts with stainless channels they had acquired from a marine dealer. Unfortuantely they were not able to remember where they had obtained them except from a marine dealer someplace. Does anyone know where in the US I can get window channels that will fit into the Rover door and side windows in back. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 16:36:50 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 16:27:52 -0500 (CDT) From: David John Place Subject: Camel Trophy To: lro@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO Please forgive me if I have asked this before, but I send a lot of mail and I can't remember if I posted this to one person or the net. Does anyone know where I can buy this years Camel Trophy VHS tape. I have all of them back to 87 but I want this years, and I would dearly like to have the first couple which featured "real" Ser III type Land Rovers not the kind I cant afford :-) I bought last years from Rover's North I think. Dave VE4PN From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 17:25:04 1994 X-Authentication-Warning: tornadic.sw.stratus.com: Host localhost.stratus.com didn't use HELO protocol To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: junk mail on the information superhighway Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 18:21:50 -0400 From: William Caloccia Status: RO Should this be of interest to any of you. Seems rather useless to me. Forwarded as per Todd's request. ------- Forwarded Message Message-Id: <9410202110.AA00381@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil> Subject: Usenet RFD: rec.autos.european Reply-To: todd@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil Summary: Proposed new group on cars of European design Keywords: European, cars REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION Group Name: rec.autos.european Status: Unmoderated Distribution: Worldwide Summary: Discussion of all aspects of the European school of automotive engineering and production. Proposed by: Eli Caul (isaac@solano.community.net) Todd Mullins (todd@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil) This RFD has been posted in accordance with the Guidelines for Newsgroup Creation. Its language is based on previously submitted RFDs. This RFD is being crossposted to the following newsgroups: news.announce.newgroups rec.autos.misc rec.autos.driving rec.autos.vw It will also be sent to the following automotive mailing lists: Audi Quattro BMW British Cars Exotic-Cars Italian Cars Jaguar Land Rover Lotus Merkur Porsche Saab Triumph TR7/V8, TR8 Volvo CHARTER: The proposed group is intended for discussion of driving, maintaining, and enjoying automobiles developed by European manufacturers. European culture has had a particular affinity for the automobile since the early part of this century. Like the continent itself, the cars of Europe provide a rich variety of automotive experiences, from the legendary Autobahn-stormers of Germany to the quirky but quaint British runabouts; from the uncompromising performance of Italy's mechanical wonders to the uncompromising individuality of the city cars of France to the uncompromising safety of Sweden's robust cruisers. The cars are part and parcel of the culture, as evidenced by such events as the Mille Miglia and the Vingt-Quatre Heures du Mans, in which participants could literally race their daily drivers. There are a great many enthusiasts for these cars, be they SCCA or other sportscar club members, armchair rally enthusiasts, or former owners that like talking about cars they once had. In addition, many older European cars are now available relatively cheaply. Since many of these marques have ceased their operations in certain markets (such as Fiat/Lancia and Peugeot in North America), this newsgroup presents an opportunity for owners of such cars to share information, technical and otherwise, that is now officially unavailable. Cars of interest include, but are not limited to: - - Classic roadsters (and their GT variants) such as MGA/B/C, Triumph TR2-6, Fiat, Alfa Romeo, and Ferrari Spyders, and Mercedes SL, - - Traditional "sport sedans" such as BMW, Mercedes, and Audi, - - All things Porsche, - - Ordinary, everyday drivers like Volvo, VW, Renault, Rover, Fiat, European Ford, Vauxhall/Opel, - - European offroad vehicles such as Range Rovers, Mercedes Gelandewagen, and European military vehicles, - - Exotic marques such as Alpine, Aston Martin, Bugatti, Jensen, Lotus, Maserati, and McLaren, - - Niche vehicles such as Rolls Royce/Bentley and Morgan. Discussion should pertain to cars of a reasonably recent vintage, so as not to overlap with rec.autos.antique. Technical aspects of VW products, as well as Porsche, Audi, and Seat cars with VW componentry, should be directed to rec.autos.vw. Volvo/Saab bashing is explicitly disallowed. FUTURE CALL FOR VOTES After the discussion period for this proposed newsgroup (no more than 30 days), a Call For Votes may be crossposted to the same newsgroups as this RFD. The voting period will last for at least 21 days and no more than 31 days. - -todd todd@mudbug.nrlssc.navy.mil ------- End of Forwarded Message From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 17:36:51 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=MACMGW/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@email.mot.com Date: 20 Oct 94 17:21:39 -0600 To: land-rover-owner@stratus.com Subject: RE: questions about being shafted... Status: RO _______________________________________________________________________________ It could be lots of things but sounds to me like the trouble is in the diff i had the same problem about 3 months ago. while pulling away from some damp grass i must have slipped the clutch as the rear wheels got traction on the pavement and it started to click like clockwork. once every revolution so naturally i assumed it was the diff. once i took the diff out i found 6 teeth chewed off the diff. some of the gears were only split on the inside track and seemed like they were in that manner for some time. meaning if the gears are only half broken the damn thing will still work without any noise unless the gears are broken on the outside track where all the torque is. in my case there were two gears on the outside that were broken in series thus creating that awful noise.. i went to the local rover used parts guy and picked up a diff for 100.00 and slapped it all together in about an hour and was on my way. the axles were completely fine. From sinasohn@crl.com Thu Oct 20 20:25:19 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 18:24:04 -0700 From: Roger Sinasohn To: LANDROVER@delphi.com, ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@team.net Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... Status: RO Important! Important! When you pull your shafts out, make sure your Land Rover has blocks around the wheels! Otherwise, it will go wandering off into a nearby field by itself! And a Land Rover is much to heavy to stop by yourself! I know this from experience! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad sinasohn@crl.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 20:32:58 1994 Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:25:44 -0600 (MDT) From: Henry Stevens To: LRO_List Subject: October Issue: Got it - Read it! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: RO I received my October issue of LRO a week ago, here in Calgary, Alberta (just east of the Canadian Rockies). Another great issue. The difference may be that it appears Canadian subscriptions come directly from the UK to my mailbox (3D version that is), whereas when I was getting it last year in Boston, it had an different, US-based (New Jersey/New York??) return sticker on it. Hope it arrives soon for all concerned. Time for me to renew. -- Henry ================================================ /==============\ Henry Stevens | | | stevensh@cuug.ab.ca [|______|_______|] Calgary, Alberta, CANADA /___/^^^^^^\___\ |(@) [####] (@)| Have '64 MGB, want LWB Land Rover (need $$) | o [####] o | ======%%%%====== "Without a real car, I'm only {*}={&&}====={*} half a man." -Dean Jones {*} {*} "The Love Bug" ================================================ From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 23:39:08 1994 From: "T.F. Mills" Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: umplace@CC.UManitoba.CA (David John Place) Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 19:48:37 -0600 (MDT) Cc: lro@stratus.com In-Reply-To: from "David John Place" at Oct 20, 94 03:46:37 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 765 Status: RO Dave from the top end of the map writes: < Well in our area the public television network is Prairie Public TV. In < your area, I guess you would have to consult your public TV station. ... < The name New Explorers is the title of a weekly series and the one I am < talking about is the premier one for this season. PBS, eh? I see I missed it on Wed, 9 p.m. -- durn! (Sould be pretty much same day and time throughout US.) Fortunately, Denver has a second "alternative" PBS station which shows the good new stuff two weeks late (for people like me who often miss it the first time around). Thanks for the tip! T. F. Mills tomills@du.edu University of Denver Library 2150 E. Evans Ave. Denver CO 80208 USA From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 01:04:16 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 23:22:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Land Rover TV show To: tomills@du.edu, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"tomills@du.edu" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO > > Dave Place writes: > > < I hope everyone gets a chance to see the season premiere of the New > < Explorers. It was a one hour program following a paleontologist Paul > < Sereno a modern-day Indiana Jones as he ventured into the Sahara. > Great... So I'm at work on Thursday and one of my buddies says "Hey, did you see the program on Channel 17 (the local PBS station) last night. Lots of 110 Land Rovers..." I miss all the fun... :-( From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 22:45:55 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 22:33:14 -0500 (CDT) Subject: flashing Disco lights (there's a pun there...) To: land-rover-owner@team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO I imagine with amusement (and understanding of such pathological behaviour since I exhibit it on occasion myself) someone sitting outside with the Disco s remote transmitter, trying to figure out all the little features in its logic controls. My question is this: How many times did the alarm go off while you were doing this and how many neighbors lights came on? Henry Wilson '94 Disco 5-spd From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 20 23:20:54 1994 From: WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Date: Thu, 20 Oct 1994 23:03:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Disco Bull-bars To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO On a recent trip to Germany, I saw several different types of bull/brush airbags, but how different can they be?), including chrome and black. One of the styles was the upside down "U" (about 2" diameter) with or without "teeth" (vertical "support" bars) in chrome and black and another was a (larger) upside down "U" style with integrated headlamp protectors, large round fog lamps on the grille and rectangular fog lamps below and lateral to these at bumper level, flanking a European-shaped license frame. In Germany these cost 2000DM or about $1200 each, but everything there ( especially that which is imported) is scarily overpriced. My question: Does anyone know of a way to get these in the USA? Is there a way to get them through Land Rover (they are Land Rover products). In general, Europe has much better access to Disco accessories than we do since they have had the car for 5 years already. Are Americans limited to Rovers North and dealerships? I sure hope not! Both of these Brush bars looked very cool--each a better design than the one currently offered on US Discos, IMHO. From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 01:32:35 1994 From: LANDROVER@delphi.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 00:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: questions about being shafted... To: sinasohn@crl.com, lro@team.net X-Vms-To: INTERNET"sinasohn@crl.com" X-Vms-Cc: INTERNET"lro@team.net" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO Uncle Roger looses his Rover.... > > Important! Important! > > When you pull your shafts out, make sure your Land Rover has blocks around > the wheels! Otherwise, it will go wandering off into a nearby field by > itself! And a Land Rover is much to heavy to stop by yourself! > > I know this from experience! > I'm trying to picture this... (ROFLMAO) Roger pulls the half shafts, and is about to continue his repairs when the wife calls him... He turns away from his work to answer and when he looks back.... IT'S GONE!!! OH GAWD... THE ROVERS GONE... Where did it go??? He looks furtively in all directions until he spies it - nestled admidst the assorted agricultural products in a nearby field... The Rover in the Clover. Oh man, it's too much to bear!!! Cheers.... Michael Loiodice E-MAIL landrover@delphi.com 166 W.Fulton St. VOICE (518) 773-2697 Gloversville NY, 12078 1972 Ser III 88 Petrol (Fern) From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 05:52:28 1994 Date: 21 Oct 94 06:40:51 EDT From: "Stefan R. Jacob" <100043.2400@compuserve.com> To: lro Subject: Re: Fuel consumption Status: RO > Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would > someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. > kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of > measure used. I remember having a multi-purpose unit conversion slide rule (convert from-anything to-anything) stashed away somewhere in my car. As soon as I find it (*if* I find it) I'll post a - hopefully precise and complete - consumption conversion table, ok ? BTW there's yet another fuel consumption unit existing in the german speaking european countries, "litres per 100 km"; weird, huh? Take care, Stefan From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 06:45:20 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: 100043.2400@compuserve.com (Stefan R. Jacob) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:42:39 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <941021104051_100043.2400_BHJ82-1@CompuServe.COM>; from "Stefan R. Jacob" at Oct 21, 94 6:40 am Status: RO > > > > Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would > > someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. > > kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of > > measure used. > > I remember having a multi-purpose unit conversion slide rule (convert > from-anything to-anything) stashed away somewhere in my car. As soon > as I find it (*if* I find it) I'll post a - hopefully precise and > complete - consumption conversion table, ok ? > BTW there's yet another fuel consumption unit existing in the german > speaking european countries, "litres per 100 km"; weird, huh? > > Take care, > > Stefan > > > > Before anyone goes to unnecessary trouble,the common units of fuel consumption are:- 1)Miles per gallon (imp) 2)Miles per gallon (US) 2)Litres per 100km (Nasty foreign metric) No-one,I venture to suggest,Kilometres per litre(despite the fact it would seem to make more sense if they did),nor is there yet a bastardised unit which uses imp and metric in the same expression. Having said that,the metric system is such an unholy mess,I wouldnt be surprised at anything it spewed up.Why we didnt all just convert to the American system,particularly for screw threads is beyond me. Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 08:29:58 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 09:28:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Harry Greenspun Subject: Re: Disco Bull-bars To: WILSONHB@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net In-Reply-To: <01HIILRWPKMA8XEAFH@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Length: 298 Status: RO Several places sell them. Atlantic-British has one which looks like original equipment. Rovers North has the OEM. However, if it's variety you want, D.A.P. sells Bearmach (made in Wales) which come in a wide range of styles. Sorry, I don't have the numbers on me; check the FAQ. Harry From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:54:10 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: lro & military Land Rovers From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 19:54:49 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO This is a biased message concerning a friend exit now if you cant bear to read it. Most of you will by now realise that Bob Morrison is a friend of mine. It appears that the new hierachy at LRO "thinks" that they need less military material in the magazine. To that end they have told him they will be scaling things back and doing more in house stuff. I find that we as readers like material that is there but never really let the magazines know how we feel, I know I am guilty of this. If you like what Morrison does then please write in to LRO and let them know that you like the material Bob puts out. Thanks Robin Craig -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:53:28 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: L R W subscriptions From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 19:59:24 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO I told you all about my returned LRW subscrption a while ago. I called the clowns at stonemart subscription services and told them I was not impressed. They whined on about how it cost them 35 quid to cash a Canadian postal money order made out in pounds sterling. I let them know that evry other place that I have dealt with in the uk has no trouble with them as they are totally negotiable and secure. No they said, no dice. Fine i said , i'll pass on your weird and wonderfull ways to the rest of the net. so be warned folks, rgds Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:55:59 1994 To: lro@stratus.com Subject: IIA Generator rebuild From: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Robin Craig) Reply-To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Thu, 20 Oct 94 20:03:55 -0500 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Status: RO Dirty diesel Dale Desprey lent me a generator from his IIA 68 88 for me to take into college and tinker with. This is how it went. The unit was caked in guck and oil and mud. Following the haynes manual as a guide the end with the terminals and studs was removed. oooooooooh The inside field coils and brushes were totally choked with the above goo. Once the springs for the brushes were unearthed (literrally) the brushes still needed to be removed with a screw driver and hammer! The hole unit was degreased and washed in the cleaning tank. The commutator was worn. a small ridge at one end. This was filed down whilst the armature was in a drill press, saved the walk to the machine shop to use the lathe. Worked just fine. Th casing was put into the glass beader after stuffing the inside to protect the coils. Really well cleaned, primed and then black painted and set aside. Bearing at pulley end seems fine so we elected to leave the pulleys on. Again with protection over the goodies and bearings it was glass beaded to clean up the pulleys and the fan parts. These were then primed and painted black. Commmutator check for continuity, and comutator to shaft checked for lack of contiuity. Put on a growler to check the windings, came up "A" ok. A new set of brushes were bought, toatly cost less that $5 can dollars. bushing was lubricated with a white grease gunk and unit reassembled. Terinals on the end checked for continuity ( oops , forgot to mention that field coils were checked for contiuity earlier aswell.) Everything fine. unit bench mounted and a 12volt battery used to check that it would turn over fine, which it did, no problem. Unit place in a box, ready for delivery back to Dale, looks a super rebuild too me. A word of warning to you all, when taking apart your starters generators etc, after the field coils are inserted at the factory, and the magnets installed all units are line bored. There for if you undo them from the casing they will most likely foul the armature on reassembly! regards Robin -- Robin Craig, rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, | Ottawa Valley Land Rovers Nepean, Ontario, Canada | 1016 Normandy Crescent, Nepean (OVLR's InterNet site) | Ontario, Canada, K2C 0L4 From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:55:06 1994 From: OliverGr@aol.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 10:52:24 -0400 Sender: OliverGr@aol.com To: land-rover-owner@team.net Subject: Discovery Turbo-Diesel specs... Status: RO Does anyone have the specs for the Turbo-Diesel version of the Discovery? Performance? Mileage? Are there any hints on the horizon that it may be brought to the US in the near future? How long has the Discovery been produced in Europe? Also, why in the world doesn't Rover send their long wheelbase Defenders over here (US)? Thanks... From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 09:53:43 1994 Via: uk.ac.edinburgh.castle; Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:57:40 +0100 From: Mr Ian Stuart Organization: Vet-lab,The Univ of Edinburgh To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:58:01 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Fuel consumption Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Priority: normal Status: RO > > > Also, for those of us who are "mathematically challenged" ;-) would > > > someone like to post a conversion chart for 1. U.S. miles/gallon 2. > > > kilometers/imperial gallon 3. kilometers/litre 4. any other units of > > > measure used. > > > Before anyone goes to unnecessary trouble,the common units of > fuel consumption are:- > 1)Miles per gallon (imp) > 2)Miles per gallon (US) > 2)Litres per 100km (Nasty foreign metric) > Here's another thought -- what's the cost of fuel? when we hit 2 quid a gallon (imp), we changed to litres.... Around my area, Unleaded petrol price = Diesel price = 50p/l (+/- 3p). anyone want to offer comparitiver prices? ----** Ian Stuart (Computing Officer) +44 31 650 6205 Royal (Dick) School of Veterinary Studies, Edinburgh University. WWW sites: Work -- http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/ Play -- http://tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ian/ #======================================================================# I'm not a computing nerd, I'm a computing geek. |Land Rover owners do Geeks are much higher up the evolutionary chain. | it in the mud. From ccray Fri Oct 21 11:02:49 1994 Subject: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:02:49 -0500 (CDT) Bcc: ccstm@pinhead.cc.missouri.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3969 Status: RO Thanks to the LRO net wisdom, I am now half-way towards getting my daily driver back on the road. -- pulled the half shafts, ok -- dropped the drive shaft (3/4 bolts came right out, of course the 4th had to be cut off with a torch). -- pulled the diff. I knew there were problems when I drained the oil -- lots of small ground up metal parts there -- no big ones, however -- and the oil level was proper. Very effective grinder it appears. -- One of the spider gears had 1/3 of the teeth missing. All others including the pinion/crown wheel look fine. -- Threw both both diffs (old and new) onto the trailer and took `em down to the carwash and spent $3 to clean `em up good. Let `em dry and sprayed with WD40. -- Parts are on order for putting in the replacement. Should only take another evening. From an earlier thread, I remember I need to weld up some sort of cheater bar that attaches where the drive shaft bolts on to allow me to torque down the pinion nut properly. OK, thought you would get off with a status report, but NO, I have some questions to ask: -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... I haven't the slightest idea of the mileage. -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: a. I know ball bearings can be viewed with a light as a background to look for pits in the race. Any pits, replace. Of course, make sure it spins with no obstruction b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") -- Anyway, back to the diff, the bearings didn't make extra noise while still running and things appear to rotate ok. So, maybe I could get by by getting some used spider gears. Q: Do I really need 4 -- won't one eventually mesh in with the others. -- I certainly don't want to take the diff apart, cause the manual paints a pretty exacting picture of rebuilding it with close tolerances and special tools. Q: Has any netter out there rebuilt a diff -- or just repaired one by putting in new spyder gears. It appears to me that they could all 4 just drop out by pulling 2 cotter pins and sliding out 2 rods. Q: Is $100 the street price for a used diff? If so, maybe I am wasting time and mental energy worrying about this. Q: Any netter out there have a diff in similiar state -- we could flip and the winner gets the parts to rebuild. Anyway, good to know the source of the noises. BTW, LULU's automated frame oiler seems to be working quite well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 10:48:12 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Mr Ian Stuart) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 16:38:04 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <4F30E156E6@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk>; from "Mr Ian Stuart" at Oct 21, 94 2:58 pm Status: RO This area (Midlands),diesel 47.9/l,unleaded 48.9l leaded about 50. Interestingly,the last fill of diesel I got was ELF deodorised stuff. It doesnt smell at all,but it doesnt seem to smoke any less.However,I *do* seem to be getting a few more MPG's out of it.Cant be bad! Cheers Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 10:46:44 1994 From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: IIA Generator rebuild To: rc@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 16:41:20 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9cRiuc3w165w@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca>; from "Robin Craig" at Oct 20, 94 8:03 pm Status: RO Hmmmm.Whatever happened to undercutting the commutator(which by virtue of the operation on the drilling machine isnt round anyway). Mike Rooth From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 11:14:02 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 11:02:49 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3968 Status: RO Thanks to the LRO net wisdom, I am now half-way towards getting my daily driver back on the road. -- pulled the half shafts, ok -- dropped the drive shaft (3/4 bolts came right out, of course the 4th had to be cut off with a torch). -- pulled the diff. I knew there were problems when I drained the oil -- lots of small ground up metal parts there -- no big ones, however -- and the oil level was proper. Very effective grinder it appears. -- One of the spider gears had 1/3 of the teeth missing. All others including the pinion/crown wheel look fine. -- Threw both both diffs (old and new) onto the trailer and took `em down to the carwash and spent $3 to clean `em up good. Let `em dry and sprayed with WD40. -- Parts are on order for putting in the replacement. Should only take another evening. From an earlier thread, I remember I need to weld up some sort of cheater bar that attaches where the drive shaft bolts on to allow me to torque down the pinion nut properly. OK, thought you would get off with a status report, but NO, I have some questions to ask: -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... I haven't the slightest idea of the mileage. -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: a. I know ball bearings can be viewed with a light as a background to look for pits in the race. Any pits, replace. Of course, make sure it spins with no obstruction b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") -- Anyway, back to the diff, the bearings didn't make extra noise while still running and things appear to rotate ok. So, maybe I could get by by getting some used spider gears. Q: Do I really need 4 -- won't one eventually mesh in with the others. -- I certainly don't want to take the diff apart, cause the manual paints a pretty exacting picture of rebuilding it with close tolerances and special tools. Q: Has any netter out there rebuilt a diff -- or just repaired one by putting in new spyder gears. It appears to me that they could all 4 just drop out by pulling 2 cotter pins and sliding out 2 rods. Q: Is $100 the street price for a used diff? If so, maybe I am wasting time and mental energy worrying about this. Q: Any netter out there have a diff in similiar state -- we could flip and the winner gets the parts to rebuild. Anyway, good to know the source of the noises. BTW, LULU's automated frame oiler seems to be working quite well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 11:30:54 1994 From: "Russell G. Dushin" Subject: Re: Fuel consumption To: IAN@lab0.vet.edinburgh.ac.uk (Mr Ian Stuart) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:27:44 EDT Cc: lro@team.net In-Reply-To: <4F30E156E6@lab0.vet.ed.ac.uk>; from "Mr Ian Stuart" at Oct 21, 94 2:58 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.36.1.1] Status: RO Ian Stuart asks: > Here's another thought -- what's the cost of fuel? Here in the metro NY area, where gas is about as expensive as it gets in the states, we pay in the $1.20-1.60 range for unleaded gasoline these days, depending upon the grade (roughly 86-93 octane rating), the seller (generally, Mobil, Exxon, Sunoco, and Texaco are the "top of the line" gasolines, but the actual location of the station and the greed of the station's owner also affect the price), and the time of year (now as we enter the winter season we are being hit with the heavily oxagenated fuels which cost a dime or so more per gallon). A heavy chunck of this price goes to taxes, which supposedly are directed towards road improvement (but you really wouldn't notice). Gas is cheaper in Joisey, mostly on account of reduced state taxes on gasoline (and much much much higher toll rates on their highways). rd/nigel From ccray Fri Oct 21 12:11:42 1994 Subject: it happened again... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:11:42 -0500 (CDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1194 Status: RO OK, so I am wasting company time -- actually it is 12:05 -- the noon hour. I just spent 5 minutes composing my reply to the gas price question and sent it in. The problem is that I didn't "CC" the LRO mailing list and only Ian got my reply. I think *LOTS* of LRO net traffic and dialog is lost this way `cause the LRO mailing list software does not change the "FROM-TO" address to the LRO mailing list. When you reply, it only goes to the original poster. You have to *consciously* "CC" the LRO mailing list to keep the dialog available to all subscribers. I know we discussed this before, but being dumb, this happens to me a lot. Just griping, sorry, steam vented, all ok, back to work... Actually, I love the LRO mailing list and am very happy to be a subscriber. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:20:50 1994 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Subject: it happened again... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Land-Rover-Owners FORUM) Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:11:42 -0500 (CDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1193 Status: RO OK, so I am wasting company time -- actually it is 12:05 -- the noon hour. I just spent 5 minutes composing my reply to the gas price question and sent it in. The problem is that I didn't "CC" the LRO mailing list and only Ian got my reply. I think *LOTS* of LRO net traffic and dialog is lost this way `cause the LRO mailing list software does not change the "FROM-TO" address to the LRO mailing list. When you reply, it only goes to the original poster. You have to *consciously* "CC" the LRO mailing list to keep the dialog available to all subscribers. I know we discussed this before, but being dumb, this happens to me a lot. Just griping, sorry, steam vented, all ok, back to work... Actually, I love the LRO mailing list and am very happy to be a subscriber. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder Columbia, Missouri 314-882-2000 "...you are what you drive..." - 61 SIIa 88 (LULU, aka Experimental) - 66 SIIa 88 (rebuild project) - 69 SIIa 88 (parts) - 87 RR (wife's) - 80 MGB - xx --------------------------------------------------------------------- From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:40:06 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 10:38:01 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: Land-Rover-Owner@Team.net, WILSONHB@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu Subject: Re: Disco Bull-bars Status: RO There are several other sources of such accessories but I don't think any of the non-dealer ones are up to the airbag world yet. Even the dealers don't yet have an airbag compatible winch mount. John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:41:32 1994 From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Re: it happened again... To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 12:38:22 CDT In-Reply-To: <9410211711.AA16191@lulu.cc.missouri.edu>; from "ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu" at Oct 21, 94 12:11 pm Status: RO ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu said: > The problem is that I didn't "CC" the LRO mailing list and > only Ian got my reply. I think *LOTS* of LRO net traffic > and dialog is lost this way `cause the LRO mailing list > software does not change the "FROM-TO" address to the LRO > mailing list. When you reply, it only goes to the original > poster. You have to *consciously* "CC" the LRO mailing list > to keep the dialog available to all subscribers. > > I know we discussed this before, but being dumb, this > happens to me a lot. Ray, I am glad to know that it isn't only to me that this happens all the time. No, really, in most areas of life I even consider myself competent... I'd love to see your suggestion (implicit above) implemented. I love the LRO list and would like to see more exchanges, especially as I know that many interesting bits are lost to (inadvertent) private email... Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:46:37 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 94 10:43:17 PDT From: brabyn@skivs.ski.org (John Brabyn) To: WILSONHB@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu, hgreensp@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu Subject: Re: Disco Bull-bars Cc: Land-Rover-Owner@team.net Status: RO In addition to Harry's suggestions, there are also ARB bullbars available from Rovers North and British Pacific, TJM bullbars available through Downey off-road, and Aussie bullbars from Oz bars in Oregon However, as far as I know, none of them are "airbag certified". John Brabyn 89RR From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 13:53:28 1994 Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 14:40:33 -0400 From: maloney@wings.attmail.com (maloney) Phone: 201-564-2073 Subject: The Great Pumpkin & Lulu To: LRO@stratus.com Content-Type: Text Status: RO Ray asks: >> -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... >> Probably due to the abuse/neglect of the previous owner. Just keeping the diff topped off and changing it every other year (more often if you wade) can make it live so much longer. >> -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. >> Keep it for a rainy day (or if you get snowed in). Strip it down completely to teach yourself how it works, then if you can't find used parts, order them from one of the UK suppliers if you can't afford RN. Then you can take your time and borrow (or buy) a dial gauge and rebuild it properly. It's amazing how much more fun it can be when you are not under any pressure. And you'll be amazed at the increase in your level of self confidence regarding your mechanical skills. >> Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: >> If one side of a gear tooth looks more worn than the other (compare the profiles, or if there is any sign of galling/pitting, replace it. >> b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. >> Bad boy! Bad boy! No! No! No! (Yea, I know it's fun. I used to do it in my Piston Engine class... and my instructor would go ape shit on my... which I guess was part of the fun). >> c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") >> If you are referring to the IIA main box, he was right. The low gear does wear disproportionately to the other parts. >> So, maybe I could get by by getting some used spider gears. Q: Do I really need 4 -- won't one eventually mesh in with the others. >> If you've gone to that much trouble, get the 4 (I think they only come in matched sets). >> -- I certainly don't want to take the diff apart, cause the manual paints a pretty exacting picture of rebuilding it with close tolerances and special tools. >> Since it will be a spare diff at that point, do it. If nothing else, think of it as a therapeutic exercise that will take your mind off of lifes larger problems. >> Q: Is $100 the street price for a used diff? If so, maybe I am wasting time and mental energy worrying about this. >> $100 is exactly what I paid Mr. Denis for my spare diff. When I got the 88 all the hub seals were leaking. When I pulled the first seal on the real axle mud & water seeped out past the axle. I drained the diff and it was 1 part water and 2 parts sludge. I can't imagine how that much water got in there. I pulled the axles and the diff (Geez! That's heavy!!!) and found a couple of the spyder gears to be pitted along with several teeth on the crown wheel. I hosed the inside of the axle casing with gunk, scrubbed it, and flushed it (several times until it was clean) I replaced everything and changed the oil again after 500 miles, then once a year since. It's been fine with no filings and no noise after almost 4 years. After I discovered this I was afraid that I might get stuck when the diff failed and bought the spare from Steve. But folks told me that it could go for a very long time in that state, and at this point I don't worry about it. Good Luck and have a great weekend! Bill maloney@wings.attmail.com From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 21 12:23:17 1994 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 21 Oct 1994 12:17:19 -0600 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@mail.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Rover 2.25l petrol engine 4sale in TX, USA Status: RO I'm posting this for a friend so please call him to ask questions. Land Rover 2.25l petrol engine complete from '71 88 - he is going to go with a Scotty conversion. Engine is in Austin, TX. It is still in the car at this time. $500. John Spitta - 512 472-3666 From /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@amail.mot.com Fri Oct 21 15:19:37 1994 From: /G=Hui/S=Ben/OU2=IL02M/OU=ILBH/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/@amail.mot.com Date: 21 Oct 94 15:20:55 -0600 To: @amail.mot.com:ccray#064#lulu.cc.missouri.edu@smtpgw Subject: RE: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... Status: RO You should check to see if there is play in the gears. sloppy difffs are a sure way of getting backlash and more broken gears. between the crown, pinion and spider gears. _______________________________________________________________________________ To: /S=lro@transfer.stratus.com/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ From: /S=ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu/OU2=SMTPGW/OU=ILBA/P=MOT/A=MOT/C=US/ on Fri, Oct 21, 1994 2:10 PM Subject: LULU's pumpkin patch revisited... X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 3968 Thanks to the LRO net wisdom, I am now half-way towards getting my daily driver back on the road. -- pulled the half shafts, ok -- dropped the drive shaft (3/4 bolts came right out, of course the 4th had to be cut off with a torch). -- pulled the diff. I knew there were problems when I drained the oil -- lots of small ground up metal parts there -- no big ones, however -- and the oil level was proper. Very effective grinder it appears. -- One of the spider gears had 1/3 of the teeth missing. All others including the pinion/crown wheel look fine. -- Threw both both diffs (old and new) onto the trailer and took `em down to the carwash and spent $3 to clean `em up good. Let `em dry and sprayed with WD40. -- Parts are on order for putting in the replacement. Should only take another evening. From an earlier thread, I remember I need to weld up some sort of cheater bar that attaches where the drive shaft bolts on to allow me to torque down the pinion nut properly. OK, thought you would get off with a status report, but NO, I have some questions to ask: -- My driving is quite reasonable. No tire smoking, no spinning wheels from ice onto dry pavement. Q: Any ideas why this happened. Is the LR diff more prone to breakage than other vehicles or is it just "shit happens"... I haven't the slightest idea of the mileage. -- It goes against my grain just to scrap this diff. I know I will wrap it in plastic and set it on the shelf in it's current state. I would like to rebuild it and keep it for future use. RN sells the spider gears but they are only available in a set of 4 for $175. It doesn't appear to make sense to rebuild with new parts. I really looked at the other gears and they all look ok. Q: I had this problem when I overhauled my TX. How do you look at gears and bearings and truly understand if they are worn and need replacement: a. I know ball bearings can be viewed with a light as a background to look for pits in the race. Any pits, replace. Of course, make sure it spins with no obstruction b. Roller bearings, I just make sure they spin. I know you aren't supposed to air spin them, but I do just a *little* cause it is so fun. c. Gears always look ok to me. (I ordered a low gear for the TX rebuild and the new one looked just like the old one except for some minor wear, but someone told me "...I always replace the low gear...") -- Anyway, back to the di