From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 2 01:03:39 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: idle dies.... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 2 May 1993 01:10:00 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Steve Methley writes: > Check the delivery pressure with a combination vacuum/pressure gauge. Every > mechanic should get one! The list of tools and accountrements continues to grow exponentially... :-) > Start here and see how it goes. If it's not the pump, I'd still put money on > it being something in fuel system rather than the ignition. (Spitting back > thro' the carb is usually a weak mixture or very, very screwed up ignition > timing, I'm assuming your valve timing is OK). Timing is Sunday's chore, along with diversions into lighting. > Steve (you could always drop in 4 more cylinders...) Yeah, right. I just dropped in four new cylinders. That was painful enough. Now, if you can show that the 3.5l is lighter than a 2.5l maybe I will consider it for the future. Of course, finding a 3.5 is not the easiest task up here in the frozen tundra. Not that many TR-8's or Rover 3500's were sold into Canada. I could have had a 3500 two years ago for $1,000, but we didn't get down there fast enough. BTW, if you can fit a 3.5l into a Series IIA or III without moving the radiator panel foreward, why doesn't Rover push the front grill back on the 90? It would look better with the recessed grill a la Series I, II, & III. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 2 01:18:19 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: help - interested in buying a land rover From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 2 May 1993 01:12:45 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) writes: > A little vague I would say. Want me to ship his the ASCII message > that TeriAnne wrote once upon a time on Land Rovers? It would give > him a start on what he might be interested in asking. I am trying to locate my copy of this missive. I believe it is hiding somewhere at work on the system there. Will send off to the various individuals that have mailed me a message asking for it. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 2 01:18:27 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: Re: Thrusday: More problems... (What else is new) From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 2 May 1993 01:02:55 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec A reply and the day's events... growl@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes: > Please don't think about rewiring your Rover. I'm sure just taking the time > to figure out what's there and fixing any damage done by previous owners/ > hackers is the easiest way to get it right. Well, the headlamps are all sorted out. One slight problem that tended to confuse matters is that the right headlamp has a dead main beam. But both lamps are all back together, the spagetti of alligator clips removed, and they work. However, I have still to figure out what that third wire coming out of the harness at that point is for. I guess that I will just tape it up and forget about it for the time being. Work has begun on sorting out the side marker lights, with turn indicators to follow tomorrow. The main switch in the instrument panel now seems to be acting in an intermitant fashion, so that will be taken apart tomorrow and cleaned out. > If you have a FAX I can send you diagrams for whatever year/model you think > you need. What I would love to see would be a wiring diagram that showed the harness, as in the factory manual, and showed which leads actually went to what. Yesterday I phoned Rovers North and talked to a couple of people about that third wire I am curious about. No one there had a clue to what it was for either. I also asked for the price on a new harness, thinking that if it was cheap I'd buy one. Having a harness that actually showed the correct colours would be an interesting novelty. At approx. US$270 for the front piece, I passed. I am just going to goto a local electronics shop and get some of those wire numbers and add them to various pieces of the harness as I figure out what they do, making the appropriate marks in the circuit diagram in the manual. As for the engine on the Rover, co-operation is not the order of the day. I am on my third Solex, and third fuel pump. She drove out of the garage, returned via the starter motor. (amazing after all of the problems that I had with that aspect of this "project") The Solex I picked up from a friend (Ted Rose, the chap who wrote the article in OVLR on tuning an engine) last night. This one is recently off a LR, being replaced by a Weber from Merseyside, thus being more or less guaranteed to work. Replacement was brought on by the poor gas milage that this particular Solex provided. But it is supposed to work... (knocking on wood in true British Druidic fashion) Of course, I have broken down, and Friday phoned Merseyside and ordered a Weber for myself too. At 59 pounds, I guess I can afford it. The latest fuel pump is for once providing ample fuel, though I am still unsure if it is providing enough. (Another borrowed item from Ted that will have to go home someday) I also took the fuel line off both ends and blew air through it. There are no blockages that I can really see. Air was blown into the petrol tank, to insure that the pipe was not blocked. (Aside, the two screws holding this pipe in place are severely rusted and I cannot remove them, despite much penetrating oil being applied) The engine will run if the throatle is used in an ample fashion, but does not seem to idle. Timing seems to be the next order of the day. Having borrowed dhuddles timing "gun", I shall have to learn how to use it. Oh well, that is tomorrow. Progress was also slightly delayed when the heater hose line on the top rear of the head decided to start to leak in a more vigourous fashion than it had been doing. Of course, being of the brainless type at times, I undid the clamp and pulled the line off. Of course, this join is below the fluid in the radiator, and I had a little fountain until I played the little Dutch boy and stuck my finger in it (the fluid was warm, but not hot). Now with one hand holding the hose, the other occupied with keeping fluid in the block, I had to practice my dexterity as I moved the clamp back down the hose, cut the offending section off, and then quickly reattached it. Not the fastest job that I have done... :-) More progress would have been accomplished, but a hunting expedition managed to bag a "volunteer" who was crazy enough to take on the fuel injected Rabbit for a tune up. Assisting him from time to time, slowed down my endeavours a bit. Especially when he managed to drop the retaining bolt for the distributor down a hole into the front crossmember of the Rabbit. Now that took a while to extract. I must admit that I am getting pretty good at replacing fuel pumps and Solex's. I could do it in the dark by now, and with my electrical system, that is how it would have to be done . Oh well, another message tomorrow... :-) Rgds, Dixon PS: Late breaking news. Land Rover of North America will be introducing the Defender 90 into Canada in September. They are currently negotiating with one of more local dealers to carry the vehicle. Expected price is to be $34,000 Canadian. It will come with a bunch of useless options, pushing it into the high end niche of the 4x4 market. Good move LRNA, price the thing out of range for the average buyer... The 110 edition (not sure if it is the Discovery or Defender) will be introduced late next Spring or Summer in Canada. No news on what the plans are for the US market. Airbag legislation in the US made the last 110 sale a one shot deal, as Rover is unwilling to get into the mess of figuring out how do you make an airbag system that will not deploy while vigourously travelling cross-country. Apparently it is a bit of an engineering nightmare. Canada does not have such airbag legislation, so it is not a problem here. You read it hear first... -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 00:23:39 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: Sunday: Some success, some set-backs, some nul progress... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 2 May 1993 22:42:12 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec An early end to the day, unless I suddenly get keen and decide to venture forth again to do battle. The initial skirmish occured in the morning when it came time to address the failures of the previous day. Key in hand, fingers on the starter switch, the starter motor brought the beast into the daylight. A slow start to the day was ordained, and work was done to check if the wiring efforts of the previous morning were correct. On went the headlamp. Note, singular tense. A little panic here, one headlamp worked fine for both low and high beams, the other had no low beam. Now the same flakey lamp didn't want to co-operate at all. A little magic with the alligator clips (after taking the lamp out of the bracket) showed that the headlamp was completely dead. Replacing it with a spare that happened to be around, resulted in both head lamps working on both normal and high beams. Some work was started on the rear lights. Upon examining the area above the rear crossmember I found a plastic bag with a lot of wires stuffed it. The bodged attempt at adding a set of wires for a trailer, stuffing the mess inside the plastic bag has resulted in a complete decay and a lot of oxide. Just trying to pull wires out of a bayonet connector results in the wire breaking off. Some wires were already broken, or losely held together with electrical tape. All of the ends are going to have to be chopped and spade style connectors added before and serious work can be done at actually seeing if power is being delivered. Sorry William, this section is going to have to be rewired. The bodge job is beyond a quick restoration/unsorting exercise. Removing the two cover plates inside the back to get at the backs of the lamp assemblies has shown electrical tape in use and fast twist splices followed with a kiddies approach to soldering. Considering only the stop light assemblies match, the other two being from something else (one looks like a marker light off of a boat), someone has been having some fun and games back there. Seeing that I lacked extra wire and connectors to tackle this, I gave up until tomorrow and went to turn my attention to the engine. The engine seemed to being starved for fuel, along with having some serious problems with the timing. By playing with the distributor, the engine finally managed to arrive at a rough idle. That done, off came the timing cover on the bell housing, and with the borrowed timing light, managed to make a fair attempt at setting the timing for the engine so it idled and reved rather nicely. Was it ready for the road? Sure, why not... Well, the Rover surged onto the road with grace. A quick left turn to drive to the end was handled with the skill only found with a happy British car owner. One hundred feet later, before it could even be put into second gear for the first time, it died. It would not start. Ether/ Quick Start did not help. Happily, two friends had come by for some enjoyment, beer, and general relaxation. Well, they were put to work, and the three of us pushed the 109 back down the road, and back up the driveway. One kid in a nearby backyard had the nerve to laugh at the sight. If I had a rifle, I'd probably have dropped him. From there, the fuel system was taken apart completely. Off came the fuel pump. Apart came the fuel pump. Off came the fuel lines. Air shot through the fuel lines. Fuel filtre cleaned. Solex cleaned. Turning the engine over was delivering lots of fuel onto the lanewway at each section tested. Fuel was getting into the engine. Time to examine the electrical system. Off came the distributor cap. The gap was checked. All the wires were checked. A spark was checked for. None could be found. The voltage regulator was tested, and just to be safe, swapped with a spare that happed to be sitting by. The coil was checked, swapped for a second. The engine would just not fire. Finally, while getting ready to start the vehicle for the nth time, it was noticed that the centre wire on the back of the ignition switch had fallen off... Now, I have not checked to see if the engine would continue to run if I got it going and then pulled that particular wire, basically to see if that was really the cause Reattaching the wire, the engine fired up very happily, whereupon it was idled for a good half hour. Spells of reving were undertaken, and all seems to work once again. As one victim had departed for home, it was thought that it would not be a good idea to venture forth again. Two of us would not be able to push the 109 very far, and neither of us had a towing cable in the first place. Not that I would really want to tow the 109 with an old Rabbit. Alone would be out of the question. Methinks I shall require the presence of a particular friend with a Chevy Blazer for that next journey onto Braun Road. Other problems... The barrel-type ignition switch (the one with the key in the centre and the large dial switch around it for the side and head lamps) is quickly coming apart internally. While it used to click happily going from off to the side lamps, to the head lamps, it now only clicks in the off position, and has to be turned all the way to headlamps to get anything out of it. The ignition key itself is becomming harder and harder to turn and now requires a fair amount of effort in a not so smooth turn to get it into the on position. Anyone have a spare kicking about? Attempts around here to find an extra one have come to naught. Most early IIA dashes that people have for parts are missing this item. Rgds from the warming tundra (sunny and about 66-68f this weekend) Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 11:29:14 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 May 93 09:16:35 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: idle dies.... Interesting side note, Just for the fun of it, I checked the fit of a TR3 intake manafold with twin SUs to a Land Rover 4 cyl. The intake ports are an EXACT match for a stock TR3 manifold. The lower stud holes even line up. The bad news for left hand drive people is that the steering is in the way of the rear carb. Duel SUs just might be a real option for people with right hand drive. TeriAnn Maybe I should move to the UK, Australia or New Zealand so I can fit SUs to my Land Rover. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 11:38:33 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 May 93 09:30:13 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Sunday: Some success, some set-backs, some nul progress... Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Dixon, Looks\ like you are getting there! About your rear harness. You might want to get short rools of the correct coloured wires and replace the leads with correct coloured ones. 10 years down the road, you might be glad you did. Cheers! TeriAnn Maybe when this is done, I might be able to talk you out of the parts I need for my Solex out of your growing pile of Solex carbs. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 13:33:20 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 May 93 11:20:35 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Subject: Re: Thrusday: More problems... (What else is new) Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Content-Length: 3528 Dixon, The timing marks on your Rover are such that the use of a "gun" is not required or even helpful. Set the timing statically with a test light (like I described how to make) or by just watching for the points "spark" (you can even hear the spark). Then after everything else is set just right; valve gap, mixture, temperature... advance the timing 'till the engine "pings" while under load, then back off a few clicks. This sets the timing to take best advantage of the fuel you are using. Suggestion for repair of the wire harness; Locate and acquire a (or better, several) wire harnesses from *any* British car that has a Lucas electrical system. You will find all the right colors and gages of wire that you need to do a real nice restoration of your wiring. The wires will even have the little "bullets" soldered onto the end, to plug into the Lucas connectors. Splice onto your wires by soldering and covering the solder joint with "shrink tube", so that the splices will be small and hide in the bundle. With the "junk" wire harness you will also get a good supply of nice uncorroded connectors (the ones that were inside of the donor car) and extra "bullets" that can be removed and replaced with a soldering iron. Anybody out there in Roverland have a pair of military front bumper over-riders for sale or trade? In Britain there must be "breakers" just overflowing with ex-NATO Rovers with these, and tail gates with picks and shovels. Come on Guys help us out. We could trade old Buick hood ornaments or something. Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 1 23:14:47 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca > Subject: Re: Thrusday: More problems... (What else is new) > Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec > Content-Length: 6712 > X-Lines: 126 > > > The engine will run if the throatle is used in an ample fashion, > but does not seem to idle. Timing seems to be the next order of > the day. Having borrowed dhuddles timing "gun", I shall have to > learn how to use it. Oh well, that is tomorrow. > > Some work was started on the rear lights. Upon examining the area > above the rear crossmember I found a plastic bag with a lot of > wires stuffed it. The bodged attempt at adding a set of wires > for a trailer, stuffing the mess inside the plastic bag has > resulted in a complete decay and a lot of oxide. Just trying to > pull wires out of a bayonet connector results in the wire breaking > off. Some wires were already broken, or losely held together with > electrical tape. All of the ends are going to have to be chopped > and spade style connectors added before and serious work can be > done at actually seeing if power is being delivered. > > Sorry William, this section is going to have to be rewired. The > bodge job is beyond a quick restoration/unsorting exercise. > Removing the two cover plates inside the back to get at the backs > of the lamp assemblies has shown electrical tape in use and fast > twist splices followed with a kiddies approach to soldering. > Considering only the stop light assemblies match, the other two > being from something else (one looks like a marker light off of a > boat), someone has been having some fun and games back there. > > Rgds, > > Dixon From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 15:57:39 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 May 93 13:48:34 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, growl@terminous.eng.sun.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Thrusday: More problems... (What else is new) Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Bill, I would imagine that by the time you paid for the overriders & pick & shovel holders and for shipping you may be close to the price of getting them new here. I believe both Rovers North & Atlantic British carries these items. Dixon, You can order new solder on barral connectors from the Roadster Factory. (814)446-4444. Price is about $0.10 US each. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 16:11:20 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark V Grieshaber Subject: Solex bits To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 3 May 93 16:02:04 CDT I note both Dixon and TeriAnn have some ongoing interest in Solex parts. I could swear I have seen a "Solex Rebuild Kit" in the current Rovers North catalog. I doubt that it includes missing mechanical parts, but bits like gaskets, etc should be included I would think. Am I mistaken about the availability of the Solex rebuild kit? Mark mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 16:45:59 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 May 93 13:48:34 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca, growl@terminous.eng.sun.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Thrusday: More problems... (What else is new) Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Bill, I would imagine that by the time you paid for the overriders & pick & shovel holders and for shipping you may be close to the price of getting them new here. I believe both Rovers North & Atlantic British carries these items. Dixon, You can order new solder on barral connectors from the Roadster Factory. (814)446-4444. Price is about $0.10 US each. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 3 17:48:57 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 3 May 93 22:32:05 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: dixon's problems After following the latest chapters of "dixon kenner and the swamp beast" with keen interest I realized that he has many of the same symptoms as the family workhorse ("rover roach", a '67 '88 farmrig-that, incidentally Terrianne, has recently completed spreading of ALL the manure in the barn) has-namely, this tendancy to run and then NOT run. Most often we attributed the problem to a "he's tired, have a brew, relax, start him up in 20 minutes and everything will be just fine" type of situation (hey-it usually worked!). Recently, this approach failed, and the roach, spreader in tow, spent several evenings in the barn in the company of many horses and ponies (who found that the sharper elements of the spreader made excellant scratching posts.....not the safest of situations-please don't call the ASPCA). The problem (this time)-NO SPARK. After individually switching nearly every electrical component "beyond and including the coil" (ie NOT the ignition switch) with those from a good running rover (Nigel's bits) we found that the no-spark sitz persisted. Note that this was done after being assured that 12V did infact reach the coil, and after being sure that 12V reached the points as well. Anyway...the problem turned out to be the keyswitch-sometimes she works, sometimes she don't. (Apparently, the switch worked when testing for power to the coil and distributor when we tested it THE FIRST, SECOND, THIRD, AND FOURTH times....on some later tries, however, we found that the readings were inconsistent-hence our clue to the ignition switch as the source of troubles). As I read: Time to examine the electrical system. Off came the distributor cap. The gap was checked. All the wires were checked. A spark was checked for. None could be found. The voltage regulator was tested, and just to be safe, swapped with a spare that happed to be sitting by. The coil was checked, swapped for a second. The engine would just not fire. Finally, while getting ready to start the vehicle for the nth time, it was noticed that the centre wire on the back of the ignition switch had fallen off... Now, I have not checked to see if the engine would continue to run if I got it going and then pulled that particular wire, basically to see if that was really the cause from one of dixon's last entries, I began to wonder-does he have a bad switch?? then I read: Other problems... The barrel-type ignition switch (the one with the key in the centre and the large dial switch around it for the side and head lamps) is quickly coming apart internally. I realized that he probably does. Dixon, I am sure that you now intend to replace this switch. Please tell me where I can get one and for how much. If it is too costly, I'll just jiggle the roach's key or hotwire it completely. Please also tell me if I am one of those contributors to this listing that is guilty of giving you "word wrap around headaches"......I suspect that I am (I am set at 80 spaces/line-did you suggest 78??? I forget and threw out the message) and apologize sincerely for scrambling your screen. Chow, rdushin/nigel/roveroach From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 01:15:33 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Thrusday: More problems... (What else is new) From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 23:43:02 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec writes: > You can order new solder on barral connectors from the Roadster Factory. > (814)446-4444. Price is about $0.10 US each. What is the fascination with these things? The only benefit I see in theri use is the mutli wire "splices" that may need to be done. The front head lamps would be an example. Other than that, spade style connectors seem to make so much nore sense. Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 01:15:32 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Solex bits From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 23:45:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Mark V Grieshaber writes: > Am I mistaken about the availability of the Solex rebuild kit? Yes. Atlantic British also offer one, but if you phone them, you will discover that they are not to be had. I have tried a couple of places in England for them too, but thus far have had little luck. I have also had a couple of local British parts suppliers try to locate a kit, but their efforts came to naught too... I intend to continue to search, and if I discover a source I'll post it here. Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 02:40:59 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: I must bid you farewell. Date: Tue, 04 May 93 08:34:13 BST From: scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com Sorry guys, but the time has come for me to withdraw from this mailing list and wish you all "Happy Rovering". The journal type traffic on the list has become just too great for me to keep up with recently, especially considering I am only a part time Roverer now. So, could "someone in the know" help me to have my name removed from the list? Simon Lewis. (scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com) Bristol, UK. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 02:46:02 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Thrusday: More problems... (What else is new) From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 00:12:49 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec growl@terminus.Eng.Sun.COM (William L. Grouell) writes: > The timing marks on your Rover are such that the use of a "gun" is not > required or even helpful. Set the timing statically with a test light (like > I described how to make) or by just watching for the points "spark" (you ca > even hear the spark). I shall try this later on. I am not very enthusiastic about hitting the road again until I have a tow vehicle available. Anyway, wiring is still a major hurdle and shall have to be addressed. The timing light seemd to do a fairly good job, but the engine seems to lack power, though idles quite well now. > Splice onto your wires by soldering and covering the solder joint with > "shrink tube", so that the splices will be small and hide in the bundle. A man after my heart. I just went out and bought another couple of three foot tubes of the stuff. An excellent invention. I have been using it for years. > With the "junk" wire harness you will also get a good supply of nice > uncorroded connectors (the ones that were inside of the donor car) and extra > "bullets" that can be removed and replaced with a soldering iron. As in the message to TeriAnne, why bother to keep these things? Pulling them apart adds strain to the wire resulting in instant detachment, or at least fatigue if you are to play around very much. The previous owner has made such a mess that there are only about four left in the entire back harness anyway. He used the twist and electrical tape approach, soldered grounds directly onto the assemblies, and generally made quite a mess. Not to worry, it will be a thing of beauty when I am finished. I may even mount a mirror under there so people will be able to see that something is not rusted out back there... :-) > Anybody out there in Roverland have a pair of military front bumper > over-riders for sale or trade? In Britain there must be "breakers" just > overflowing with ex-NATO Rovers with these, and tail gates with picks and > shovels. Come on Guys help us out. We could trade old Buick hood ornaments > or something. You are not the only one in search of these things. I'd love a set too... Later though... Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 02:46:52 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Sunday: Some success, some set-backs, some nul progress... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 23:39:27 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec writes: > Looks\ like you are getting there! About your rear harness. You might > want to get short rools of the correct coloured wires and replace the > leads with correct coloured ones. 10 years down the road, you might > be glad you did. Not to worry, I will be labeling all of the wires when I redo the rear harness. My wire supplier came up short today, seems he doesn't know where he left his various spools. Hopefully tomorrow he will have located them. > Maybe when this is done, I might be able to talk you out of the parts I need > for my Solex out of your growing pile of Solex carbs. Anything is possible. The current, and seemingly working one is only borrowed, so that one has to go back soon. There are another two though to deal with. I'd like to keep one, but the other is open for negotiation... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 02:54:43 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: idle dies.... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 23:36:06 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec writes: > The bad news for left > hand drive people is that the steering is in the way of the rear carb. > Duel SUs just might be a real option for people with right hand drive. What if one could find an extension fitting that rotated both SU's up so that they were at enough of an angle for the rear one to clear the steering box? Is there enough room to do this? Of course, the other option is to see how packed the steering box is, and see if it is possible to bash it in a strategic spot... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 03:03:14 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: dixon's problems From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 00:01:51 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@Sdsc.Edu (dushin russell) writes: > After following the latest chapters of "dixon kenner and the swamp beast" wit > keen interest I realized that he has many of the same symptoms as the family > workhorse ("rover roach", a '67 '88 farmrig-that, By the time I am finished my little selection of missives to the list, I am sure that I will discover only about 20% of what is eventually going to go wrong. So you probably don't have to worry about the source drying up... :-) > Dixon, I am sure that you now intend to replace this switch. Please tell me > where I can get one and for how much. If it is too costly, I'll just jiggle > the roach's key or hotwire it completely. You won't like this... Rover's North has the switch; Ser II, IIA + earth Switch 90519775 $64.95 - 1968 Barrel lock with key 395141 $ 7.50 Light knob 537284 $ 9.50 Ser IIA, III - earth Switch 551508 $33.95 1968 - Barrel lock with key 395141 $ 7.50 Diesel is different from the above too... When I get a price from the UK, I will forward it on. It must be at least half of what RN has it listed for. Mine is approaching total collapse, and if I could find an extra dash plate, would move the side lights and head lamps to seperate switches. I have not checked, but I have been told the later Series IIA dashes do not swap in very well, so we are kind of stuck with the barrel type switch for the time being. They are certainly an oblect to acquire an extra if you see a LR being broken up. Anyone with a 1968 and on LR will not need it, and you can probably get it off of them. > Please also tell me if I am one of those contributors to this listing that > is guilty of giving you "word wrap around headaches"......I suspect that I > am (I am set at 80 spaces/line-did you suggest 78??? I forget and threw out > the message) and apologize sincerely for scrambling your screen. I can handle 80 columns without a problem, though depending on the system, some can't even handle 78. 78 is a good number incase some brain dead system uses the CR/LF as two characters. I don't recall if you were one of the guilty parties, but if you really want I can check I gate this mailing list into a newsgroup, and thus have the past 450 odd messages here on file... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 07:27:44 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Air Bags and the 90 Defender Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 04 May 93 05:24:09 PDT From: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu A few days ago, someone posted that the 90 Defender was being imported to Canada this September, but that there were no plans for a US import. (despite a Spring 1993 Rovers North article to the contrary). The reason stated was an airbag requirement in the Us that Canada is not blessed with. Well, as I was up avoiding work, the thought came to me. Whereas I agree that designing an airbag that will not deploy at the first off road bounce will be difficult. The task may be impossible for all I know, but I think there must be a solution. would US laws support an airbag device that has an easily removable gas canniser (or whatever they use to deploy the air bag)? That way the off roaders like us can take the thing ot while we off road and use our seatbelts. Then when we get back on the highway to go home, we can pop the part back in. Or is this too prone to lawsuit? I also wonder how the GM Hummer can be sold to the off roading world if it also has the airbag problem. On another separate topic, is my Rover. I recently replaced the front springs because I had broken one fo them. The rear springs look to also be warn. (one corner is at rest a few inchs lower than the other.) My question is how dangerous is this. Are springs that are severely worn out in extreme danger of snapping randomly, or only if I give them severe jolts? (I would really like to put off replacing the springs because of a lack of $$$, but the Rover is my sole means of transportation) -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 08:46:45 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 4 May 93 13:31:48 GMT From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV) To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov Subject: Ignition switch > Dixon, I am sure that you now intend to replace this switch. Please tell me > where I can get one and for how much. If it is too costly, I'll just jiggle > the roach's key or hotwire it completely. > My last used one cost $25.00 (US). It's in good condition but did not come with a key. No problem. The local key shop cut several off of the original key code. Mark --0- moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA - Boulder, CO USA 1961 Land Rover 109 1974 Norton Commando From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 08:53:16 1993 Return-Path: Date: 04 May 1993 06:40:11 -0700 From: Paul Anderson To: In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/05/04 12:59:37 UT from (RANGER)" Subject: Re: Air Bags and the 90 Defender Benjamin Smith writes: > A few days ago, someone posted that the 90 Defender was being imported to >Canada this September, but that there were no plans for a US import. >(despite a Spring 1993 Rovers North article to the contrary). The reason >stated was an airbag requirement in the Us that Canada is not blessed with. > Well, as I was up avoiding work, the thought came to me. Whereas I >agree that designing an airbag that will not deploy at the first off road >bounce will be difficult. The task may be impossible for all I know, but I >think there must be a solution. would US laws support an airbag device that >has an easily removable gas canniser (or whatever they use to deploy the >air bag)? That way the off roaders like us can take the thing ot while we >off road and use our seatbelts. Then when we get back on the highway to go >home, we can pop the part back in. Or is this too prone to lawsuit? > I also wonder how the GM Hummer can be sold to the off roading world >if it also has the airbag problem. Last I heard from various parties close to Land Rover, the 90 was still on track for the US. As for your comments on the air bag, it is giving Rover great concern. About a year ago, I was talking to one of the head Rover engineers. (The test facility is here in Phoenix.) They were extremely concerned with accidental deployment. This is true for any off-road vehicle that has the light truck classification. Yes, Jeep has one in the Grand Cherokee, but Jeep is betting on the fact that the majority never leave the pavement. I know that consideration for a disabling mechanism was at least considered at some point, but the liabilities of relying on the vehicle operator to turn it back on when returning to pavement were discouraging that idea. The engineer did state that they were attempting to develop a sensor that would tell the difference of off and on road conditions. Given some of the electronics in the new air suspension system on the LWB Range Rover, they may be close. I was under the impression that the air bag was required by 1994. However I did read an article a couple of month ago that seem to indicate 1997 for light trucks (includes vans and UTEs). As for the HUMMER, its size (6800 lbs) is outside of the light truck classification. To the Civilian Program Manager's delight, they are not required to have air bags under current law. BTW, AM General make the HUMMER not GM. *============================================================================* * * __________ * * Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles * * ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * :__Range_Rover__: are for * * * (_) (_) Exceptional People| * *============================================================================* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 09:08:35 1993 Return-Path: Date: 04 May 1993 06:59:33 -0700 From: Paul Anderson To: Land Rover Mailing List Subject: Entry-Level Discovery A tidbit from this week's AutoWeek: 'CHEAP' ROVER. Land Rover has introduced Europe to a new entry level Discovery that uses the 2.0-liter twin-cam, 16-valve engine of the Rover 800 sedan. The $25,000 price, low for Land Rover, appears to be the model's chief attraction, since it can muster no more than 98 mph and needs 15.3 seconds to haul itself to 60 mph. The upcoming U.S. version of the Discovery will likely will stick with the V8. A new V8 was in the works, based on the twin-cam K-series engine, but it now looks like it's been canceled. Prohibitively high tooling costs are said to be the culprit *============================================================================* * * __________ * * Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles * * ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * :__Range_Rover__: are for * * * (_) (_) Exceptional People| * *============================================================================* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 20:33:38 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 4 May 93 09:33:44 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com Subject: Re: I must bid you farewell. Content-Length: 646 Huh, don't you have a "delete" button? > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 00:37:15 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: I must bid you farewell. > Content-Length: 401 > X-Lines: 10 > > Sorry guys, but the time has come for me to withdraw from this mailing > list and wish you all "Happy Rovering". The journal type traffic on > the list has become just too great for me to keep up with recently, > especially considering I am only a part time Roverer now. > > So, could "someone in the know" help me to have my name removed from > the list? > > Simon Lewis. (scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com) > Bristol, UK. > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 4 22:25:58 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Air Bags and the 90 Defender From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 4 May 1993 21:28:01 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu writes: > A few days ago, someone posted that the 90 Defender was being imported to > Canada this September, but that there were no plans for a US import. This was me. I didn't say that there were no plans for a US import, but that I did not know of any at this time. I added to my recent news of the Canadian import some news I had heard earlier on the problems that Rover was having with airbags and US legislation. This earlier news I had heard in conjunction with the reasoning why the last bunch of 110's sold in the US might be the only bunch for a while. I have also seen this reasoning in an article up here in one of the papers. > That way the off roaders like us can take the thing ot while we > off road and use our seatbelts. Then when we get back on the highway to go > home, we can pop the part back in. Or is this too prone to lawsuit? A switch was what I had heard mentioned, but there is the lawsuit problem. The switch fails, some idiot forgets to turn it back on et cetera. > I also wonder how the GM Hummer can be sold to the off roading world > if it also has the airbag problem. Good question, though Hummers produced before a certain date would not have the requirement. The Hummer may also be classed differently, thus not have the requirement for an airbag. > (I would really like to put off replacing the springs because of a lack of > $$$, but the Rover is my sole means of transportation) I would avise you to replace the springs. Check out Merseyside or Paddocks in the UK for pricing. You should find that they are not only cheaper than RN, but cheaper with shipping and duty calculated in. NOTE: If you do order springs from the UK, make sure that you specify that your vehicle is a left hand drive NADA (North American Dollar Area) vehicle. The springs for the rhd and lhd *are* different. Rgds, Dixon PS, My Rover is idling happily in the driveway, having emerged under its own petrol steam for once... :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 5 02:18:19 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: I must bid you farewell. Date: Wed, 05 May 93 08:11:17 BST From: scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com > Huh, don't you have a "delete" button? Of course I have a delete button. It's just that in amongst all of the messages about tightening three bolts and trying the brake lights again, I might delete something that's actually relevant to my job. I can't take that risk any more. Simon. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 5 18:04:21 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 18:55:24 -0400 From: Chris Barbeau To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Overdrive.... Classes done, tests graded, shows all ended (I choreograph fights), and the land rover listing hard to port as the stands have sunk into the ground and shifted due to torrential downpours. The vehicle that I purchased to get me though the winter is still running fine, but I want to be rovering, not running around in a asian import looking over my shoulder for the UAW. (Mazda with 175,000 miles on it - runs fine. $250, so I made out for the last 4 months) I've lot's of reassembly on the front drivetrain, including getting the new springs installed, but all the parts are here and pretty much ready to go. I just want to get a coat of paint on the swivel housings before putting them back together. I've been socking away money for an overdrive and have enough now, though I was curious if anyone had a used unit they were interested in selling before I have LRN send me a new one. Seems a little extravagent to put a new unit in the vehicle, when none of the rest of the powere train has been rebuilt or replaced, and I don't know what's going to happen down the road. Has anyone had any experience with ordering rebuilt parts shipped from England? Dixon, do I have to pay VAT on parts shipped to me? If not, then how much should the dealer knock off of the stated price (adds in LRO often say VAT included) so that I know that I'm not paying extra needlessly? I've been following everyone's rebuild efforts and the bug has gotten me again to get to work and continue update and resto on my old beast. Not to mention a few timely inquires after purchasing my vehicle that always puff out the chest! Oh, anyone have a canvas top they are interested in parting with? I got a tailgate and hoops from a guy in northern Michigan but nothing but some rusty eyelets were left from the top. -chris barbeau '69 IIa 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 5 19:34:02 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 5 May 93 17:27:22 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: barbeau@eecs.umich.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Overdrive.... Chris. Get a new overdrive. Used units are usually worn out & they cost $$ to rebuild. Also, Put 1X12 boards or Plywood under your jackstands to spread the weight & keep them from sinking. Makes it safer to be under. Come on & join the group of newly working Land Rovers! TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed May 5 20:01:28 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 5 May 93 17:27:22 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: barbeau@eecs.umich.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Overdrive.... Chris. Get a new overdrive. Used units are usually worn out & they cost $$ to rebuild. Also, Put 1X12 boards or Plywood under your jackstands to spread the weight & keep them from sinking. Makes it safer to be under. Come on & join the group of newly working Land Rovers! TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 6 16:51:40 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: I must bid you farewell. From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 5 May 1993 21:29:58 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com writes: > Of course I have a delete button. It's just that in amongst all of the > messages about tightening three bolts and trying the brake lights > again, I might delete something that's actually relevant to my job. I > can't take that risk any more. Probably being the most guilty here for the volume, I would suggest that you take the approach that I did. I too had the problem of the LRO mail getting mixed with work related stuff, as well as with the massive volume of the British-cars mailing list. Thus I had the destination address changed from dixon@ to ovlr@, and was able to gate the contents of this mailing-list into a local newsgroup. This way, the LRO stuff is all kept together, and I do not have the problem of accidently deleting the wrong message. The other option would be to get a second acount on hplb.hpl.hp.com for "outside of work" type material to goto. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 7 00:32:19 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: A brain that is still frozen From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 6 May 1993 23:34:45 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec How shall we explain this... The Rover started this evening without fail. Excellent. It then died a few moments later. Hmmm, not so good. Let us follow all of the correct procedures to see what might be wrong. Are all of the wires still attached? Yes, they seem to be. Is there a spark? Yes, that seems to be nice too. Is fuel getting to the Solex? Hmmm, it seems to be having a problem getting there. Lets examine the fuel system, checking every component part. Eventually we get the opportunity, working our way backwards, to examine the fuel tank. Is the line blocked? No, it is not. Lets put a syphon on it. Hmmm, no fuel.... That may cause a problem... Time to reattach all of the component parts, and seriously examine reconnecting a few neurons... Lessons learned. Make sure the fuel guage actually works before you put some trust in it. In this case, the fact that it always requsters 1/4 full, might indicate that something is amiss... Results after playing for a while: Engine fired up very happily yet again, though being dark and rather late, it did not venture forth. I can say that it is now insured, and has a valid trip permit to go on the road for the next week. Let us hope that it can actually do that... Rgds, Dixon BTW, something seems to be amiss with incoming mail. Nothing from British-cars or LRO for two days now. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 7 02:41:25 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: I must bid you farewell Date: Fri, 07 May 93 08:34:10 BST From: scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com Dixon has kindly provided a way of filtering LR mail from work mail, but really, I want to unsubscribe. So please, if you love me, let me go... Unfortunately, my UNSUBSCRIBE message to lro-request doesn't seem to have worked. Is there another way? Simon. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 7 16:51:18 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 7 May 93 14:40:17 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, scrl@hplb.hpl.hp.com Subject: Re: I must bid you farewell Content-Length: 2312 Simon, Once you sign on here it's a life sentence to have your mailbox stuffed with useless drivel. THERE IS NO WAY OUT. (___) (___) (o o) (o o) /-------\ / /-------\ / / | ||O / | O~ ||O * ||,---|| * ||,---|| ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ Bull A-bomb-in-a-bull No-bull ( ( ) ( ( ) ) ( ( ) ( / ) ( ( \\ ) ( | // ) | | (__) | | (oo) (__) | | ----\/ ______(oo)_____ | | || ( _)_______(__) ) **| | ---|| \ __________/ ``'---------~~ Cow Hide Cow Pie o o (__) ~ \ / (oo) / \ / _____\/___/ (__) \__/ / /\ / / (oo) _______(oo) ~ / * / /---------\/ /| ___ \/ / ___/ / | x=a(b)|| / | { }|| *----/\ * ||------|| * ||{___}|| / \ ~~ ~~ ||-----|| / / ~~ ~~ ~ ~ Mathematical Television This cow does Disco Cow Cow (That's what comes of (developer of (Cow-thode snorting cow-caine) cow-culus) Two Polish guys went away on there annual hunting expedition, and by accident one was shot by the other. His worried companion got him out of the deep woods, into the car, and off to the neraest hospital. "well, Doc," he inquired anxiously, "is he going to make it?" "Its tough," said the doctor. "He'd have a better chance if you hadn't gutted him first. ! R bg > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 7 00:37:51 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: Re: I must bid you farewell > Content-Length: 258 > X-Lines: 7 > > Dixon has kindly provided a way of filtering LR mail from work mail, but > really, I want to unsubscribe. So please, if you love me, let me go... > > Unfortunately, my UNSUBSCRIBE message to lro-request doesn't seem to > have worked. Is there another way? > > Simon. > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 8 09:37:41 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Overdrive.... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 8 May 1993 01:31:09 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec writes: > Come on & join the group of newly working Land Rovers! Not yet out here. Todays adventure is showing that there are still a few annoying problems. Happily they are now getting reduced to a pitiful few. A minor one is the gasket for the fuel pump leaks rather well. After having it on and off some fifty plus times, I wonder why. There seems to be another leak by the water pump. No problem, just add water for the time being. The annoying problem seems to be sediment in the petrol tank. It is blocking the end of the spigot inside the fuel tank at times and causing a quick death to the engine. I am going to order a new petrol tank from Merseyside in the UK, along with a new sender unit and some other misc. parts. With the help of David Huddleson this evening we also managed to get all of the lights to work. The rats nest in the back has been straightened out and all of the side lights now work. Fixing a ground problem got the flasher for the right side going, and now the turn indicator works. We even got the little light in the unit on the steering wheel column to work too... :-) Brake lights now work. Despite some air in the system, pulling the two wires off of the sender, and the application of a file to all of the contacts has resulted in them working too. Overall, a successful day. The only thing that seems to be holding me back from attending the tune-up party is petrol delivery to the engine. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 8 09:37:46 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Overdrive.... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 8 May 1993 01:19:29 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Chris Barbeau writes: > I've been socking away money for an overdrive and have enough now, though I > was curious if anyone had a used unit they were interested in selling before > I have LRN send me a new one. Buy a new one. To buy used is inheriting someone elses problems. Noting the traffic here on the list, and the pinings of other OVLR members, most people want one of these. If someone is giving one up, the obvious question is why. While you are counting the $$$ in the socks, think of getting the Faerie overdrive. It is the best rated. > Dixon, do I have to pay VAT on parts shipped to me? If not, then > how much should the dealer knock off of the stated price (adds in LRO often > say VAT included) so that I know that I'm not paying extra needlessly? There is no VAT on overseas orders. I am unsure of the VAT rate, but looking through the ads in LRO, you should find some prices that have both VAT and non-VAT pricing. I know magazines like MiniWorld have advertisements with both pricing. From one of those, you can work out the percentage and deduct it. As for importing into the US, you should check on the duty rate, if there is one. In Canada there is not duty on parts for vehicles that are older than 25 years. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 9 17:22:08 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 08:13:02 +1000 (EST) From: Phil Irvine Subject: I am also trying to unsubscribe! To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII PLEASE remove me from the list. My interest was only peripheral, having owned a Land Rover (1964 IIA SWB). However I do not find the discussions of relevance to me now. |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | Phil Irvine CSIRO Division of Wool Technology,RYDE, NSW, AUSTRALIA 2112 | | Tel: +61 2 809-9341 Fax: +61 2 809-9476 Email:p.irvine@syd.dwt.csiro.au | |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 10 04:18:55 1993 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Mon, 10 May 1993 10:02:01 +0100 From: Ross Subject: Bent Body To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro) Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 09:59:56 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1106 Last weekend, I sadly became a new member of the 'nearly working Land Rover' club as previously advertised in these listings. Before taking out a 6 metre wide section of dry stone wall between Ingleton and Hawes (North Yorks), I had a shortened Range Rover V8, complete with Series III truck cab body. Surprisingly, the chassis and all the steering gear is fine (didnt even knock the tracking out) and both of us weathered the 40mph impact without so much as a scratch. What I am looking for now, is a good source of second hand bodywork, for the said vehicle. I spent friday night and Saturday removing all the old body, right down to a rolling chassis again and discovered that I need the following bits: Two complete front wings, a drivers side door (bottom and top really), and a replacement back body. I also need a new radiator (110 makes the best fit) and a 4 sp RR box drivers side mounting rubber. So, if there are any (British) subscribers out there who know of anybody (preferably in the N.Yorks area) who is breaking an old Series three, I am definitely interested. Many thanks Ross From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 10 08:53:27 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: VAT and the Art of Land Rover maintenance To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 10 May 93 14:43:27 BST For those who may be interested,the current rate of the dreaded VAT in this great laand of ours is 17.5%.As of about six months ago,it was decreed by those Parliamentary Pillocks who try to make us beleive that they govern us wisely,that all adverts in magazines must include VAT.This appears to include parts and services,but to *exclude* vehicles.To the uninitiated,a Land Rover with a "blind" hardtop,softtop,or truck cab (pickup) attracts VAT.On the other hand,a "window" hardtop,softop station wagon etc is deemed to be a car,not a commercial vehicle and is therefore not VATTED.Why? Dont ask me,I'm just reasonably rational human being,but I think it had something to do with businesses being able to recover VAT. I must admit it has been something of a shock to realise that you can probably import spares onto the North American continent from here,and pay little or nothing more for them than we do. AND your petrol is cheaper!Gawd,if I wasnnt so old I'd emigrate. Mid you,i wouldnt want Dixon's weather,either:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 10 10:00:57 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Saturday: OVLR has its' tune-up party. From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 8 May 1993 22:50:40 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Saturday has come and gone, and despite the early hour, I am Land Rover'd out for the next few minutes. It was a day of much fun, some anguish, successes, and much beer. Despite a 2am bedtime, David and I were up early to accomplish the last few tests, tuning, and general poking around to see if finally the beast could actually go more than 100 yards under its own steam. Doing another once over on the fuel system, insuring that all was working fine, we came to the conclusion that there is so much sediment, rust, and other junk in the petrol tank, that there was no way it was going to go anywhere far. Some improvisation was in order. I have these two army jerry cans. :-) Placing one in the back we managed to show that the engine could rev for long periods of time without having any significant problems. A solution was born. With one jerry can strapped into the tool box in the back of the 109, a hose clamped to the fuel line, running into the jerry can and I was able to successfully go from one end of the road to the other. The second jerry can, sat full in the back for topping up the new primary petrol tank. Seeing how we may have "lift-off", it was decided to be a little ambitious. Off we went to the OVLR tune-up party on Carp, Ontario, a jounrney of some 50 miles. The Land Rover didn't miss a beat, and happily managed to negotiate rural roads, city streets, and a stretch of divided highway. Upon arriving at the party, albeit a little late, fellow OVLR member were shocked to see my 109 actually on the road and running. I joined a dozen or so other Land Rovers, ranging from Series I swb and lwb, to Series III's all getting looked over and tuned up. The club "special events" co-ordinator, and organiser of this event came, applied various devices to the engine, and exclaimed "I don't believe it". The only fault to be found with the running engine was a dwell that was just a little to long. From there it was off to a local pub for beer and a late lunch, and then a nice saunterly ride home. Some interesting observations. OVLR has a new candidate for our lugnut of the year award. One chap drove all of the way from Montreal, some 120 miles, with a steering rack held together with a bunch of metal Tridon clamps. Some previous owner had added a shock absorber for dampening. This modification, done imperfectly, had resulted in the left hand end of the threaded rod stripping itself. (military versions have this modification, but it goes across to the tie rod end, not attached 3/4 of the way there). After taking a number of photos for the Christmas party, we had him strip the mess off, so the local garage where the party was held could weld the end up. Anyone who wishes to put dampening onto their steering should make sure that it goes all the way across to the tie rod end to save straining the threaded joints. A couple of people have modified their front ends to lift up. By screwing the bonnet to the wings, using the bonnet hinges as a point upon which to move, an elegant solution has been found to working in the recesses of the engine bay. Some welding is required to build a pair of posts to secure the radiator to, but the solution is good enough to emulate on my vehicle sometime in the distant future. Problems with my Rover: New muffler time. The holes in mine will not enable it to pass inspection. Maybe the stainless resonator on the Mini can be moved over for a short time, as I intend to replace the whole system when the OVLR order goes over to Merseyside in the next week or two. A gasket must be fashioned to go between the fuel pump and block. I am leaking a bit of oil out of the remenants of a gasket that has been taken off numerous times and reused. No matter, I have lots of gasket paper after fashioning gaskets for the Mini. I am getting some blow-by into the crankcase. Significant enough to increase the pressure enough to cause oil to exit the top of the crankcase vent. Let us say that water is not going to be a problem with the distributor, it now being rather coated in oil. I have added some of that Bardahl stuff to the engine oil in hopes that the problem is rings that have stuck to the pistons. This might free it up somewhat. After changing the oil, some 100 miles ago, it did not take very long to turn black. I think that another change may come sooner than I expected. The Rover would not start after the stop at the nearby pub. The starter spinns very happily, but did not engage. (It did start ever time after, even once after stalling at a red light when being still semi brain dead let off the clutch with the brakes on, and the light ahead still red. ) My guess is a dirty bendix that needs to be cleaned and a light machine oil applied. guess I will see how ambitious I am over this. Do I remove the left wing, or attempt the change with it on... Other than that, there is not too much to say. Oh yeah, the front side lamps have decided to stop working. Tommorrow... Rgds, Dixon [With a finally working 1964 109" Station Wagon] PS. William, despite a yearning to gut the rear harness, it has been left intact, green bullet connectors chopped off, new spade connectors added. It works. Just straightening out a previous bodge job seems to have done the trick. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 10 21:44:25 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 10 May 93 10:52:18 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, phil@syd.dwt.csiro.au Subject: Re: I am also trying to unsubscribe! Send requests for alias changes to; land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun May 9 15:18:26 1993 > Subject: I am also trying to unsubscribe! > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Content-Length: 477 > X-Lines: 10 > > PLEASE remove me from the list. > My interest was only peripheral, having owned a Land Rover (1964 IIA SWB). > However I do not find the discussions of relevance to me now. > > |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| > | Phil Irvine CSIRO Division of Wool Technology,RYDE, NSW, AUSTRALIA 2112 | > | Tel: +61 2 809-9341 Fax: +61 2 809-9476 Email:p.irvine@syd.dwt.csiro.au | > |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| > > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 10 22:16:43 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 23:09:19 -0400 From: Chris Barbeau To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Overdrives... dixon kenner writes... Noting the traffic here on the list, and the pinings of other OVLR members, most people want one of these. If someone is giving one up, the obvious question is why. While you are counting the $$$ in the socks, think of getting the Faerie overdrive. It is the best rated. A number of people have told me that the Toro overdrive is actually the heavier unit (also having a larger oil capacity) and so I reach the point of wondering if anyone has an article comparing the two in tests and construction? Painting of front end pieces continues with the diff-spring plates and clamps getting their primer coat and everything else getting pretty. --Chris '69 IIa 88" From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 11 00:53:12 1993 Return-Path: From: jory@athena.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: overdrives Date: Tue, 11 May 93 01:45:05 EDT fromwhat i understand, the toro overdrive is no longer manufactured and looked to be a kluge from a design standpoint... the potential bonus of a larger oil reservoir is outweighed (i ave been told) by the fact that both units are splash oil bath lubricating, so once the oil falls below the level of the spinning bits, you get no lubrication... thus, the larger oil reservoir doesn't help, since both units have the same topped off oil level... -jory From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 11 01:41:44 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: VAT and the Art of Land Rover maintenance From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 11 May 1993 00:20:09 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Mike Rooth writes: > For those who may be interested,the current rate of the dreaded > VAT in this great laand of ours is 17.5%. In Canada, GST (our VAT) runs at 7%, but then you can add provincial sales tax at 8% for a total of 15% here. > I must admit it has been something of a shock to realise that > you can probably import spares onto the North American continent > from here,and pay little or nothing more for them than we do. > AND your petrol is cheaper!Gawd,if I wasnnt so old I'd emigrate. > Mid you,i wouldnt want Dixon's weather,either:-) Petrol runs between 55 cents Cdn. for the cheap stuff to 64 cents Cdn. for the 93 octane stuff here. That works out to better than C$2.50 an imperial gallon. We are paying betwwen two and three times the price that the Yanks pay for petrol. I would say that we are probably paying about a quid 25p a gallon over here. As for the weather, if you ever want to appreciate what your Rover can do, you need to take a trip over here in the winter. Ploughing through several feet of snow in the fields and forest is much different than the normal mud runs through swamp and forest. You guys have it easy on your Rovers, though six metres of missing stone wall is pretty good without damage to the frame... Rgds, Dixon PS, Yes, it is still working. Took the beast (tentative name "Gotterdamerung" ) to work today. Those that saw it were impressed... :-) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 11 08:27:13 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 13:16:25 GMT From: moore@profsc.fsl.noaa.gov (Mark Moore MOORE@FSL.NOAA.GOV) To: lro@fslg8.fsl.noaa.gov Subject: RE: overdrives > Subj: overdrives > > fromwhat i understand, the toro overdrive is no longer manufactured > and looked to be a kluge from a design standpoint... > > the potential bonus of a larger oil reservoir is outweighed > (i ave been told) by the fact that both units are splash oil > bath lubricating, so once the oil falls below the level of > the spinning bits, you get no lubrication... thus, the larger > oil reservoir doesn't help, since both units have the same topped > off oil level... > > -jory One benfit of the larger oil reserve is to act as a heat sink. If lubrication was the only point, then just a thin film on all surfaces would suffice. My $0.02. Mark --0- moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA - Boulder, CO USA 1961 Land Rover 109 1974 Norton Commando From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 11 14:33:26 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 12:10:56 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, jory@athena.mit.edu Subject: Re: overdrives For what it's worth: I have had a Toro overdrive on my '64 SIIa-88" for about four years and 40K miles. ELEPHINO has been over the Sierra Nevadas many times in blizzards and sub zero tempretures and on many Black Rock Desert trips trough sand, mud in 115 F temps. carrying; two weeks supplies, four full Jerry cans, my Air Camping tent, me, wife and three kids, and the dog. No problem. When I first installed the OD the oil was "pumping" out of the transfer case into the OD. This was discovered when I found 90 weight oil sprayed on the rear after runs on the freeway. The OD was getting full and pushing oil out the vent hole. I installed a drain tube from the OD to the transfer case by just replacing the oil level check plugs with hose barbs connected with a length of 3/8" fuel hose. This was in place for about a year and several adventures. On one of the desert trips after a long run on the hyway I smelled HOT 90 weight, so I stopped to check it out. The dip stick was missing from the OD and it was low on oil. I filled it up, made a plug for the hole and continued the trip. The oil had run into the transfer... down the tube, due to driving up and down steep hills in hot temps. The dip stick must have been blown out, as it was a snug fit with an "o" ring. This occurrence made me think that the oil wasn't pumping but was being forced by air pressure from the transfer to the OD. I removed the "drain tube" and installed a vent tube between the OD and the transfer case and the atmosphere. This has been on for three years and now the oil in each section stays there. The vent tube is up high and I can install a cap for very deep wading. I disagree that the Toro is a kludge, The extra oil capacity is an advantage. Both brands of OD will give good service if they are kept full of oil. I suspect that many ODs have died because they have been run dry. I have the remains of two Toros that were given to me. Both are fried due to lack of oil. I hope to get one complete, working unit from this pile of parts, for my 88 PU. CONSUMER NOTICE: Because of the "Uncertainty Principle," It Is Impossible for the Consumer to Find Out at the Same Time Both Precisely Where This Product Is and How Fast It Is Moving. Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 10 22:49:32 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: overdrives > Content-Length: 455 > X-Lines: 12 > > > fromwhat i understand, the toro overdrive is no longer manufactured > and looked to be a kluge from a design standpoint... > > the potential bonus of a larger oil reservoir is outweighed > (i ave been told) by the fact that both units are splash oil > bath lubricating, so once the oil falls below the level of > the spinning bits, you get no lubrication... thus, the larger > oil reservoir doesn't help, since both units have the same topped > off oil level... > > -jory > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 13:13:42 1993 Return-Path: To: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Removing broken bolts In-Reply-To: bellas's message of Mon, 26 Apr 93 08:45:55 -0800. <9304261545.AA04854@gamma.tti.com> Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 10:56:03 PDT Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" Once again, I'll push some Kroil on you as a penetrating solvent. Heat will help, though with a rubber damper you have to be careful. Get the bolts hot but not the rubber! Try getting some left hand bits and drill the hole that way... Name: Kano Labs Address: 1000 So. Thompson Lane Nashville, TN 37211 Phone: (615) 833-4101 (615) 833-5790 fax $5 for a sample can of Kroil It will work, but it may take time. Be patient. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 17:04:57 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 08:13:02 +1000 (EST) From: Phil Irvine Subject: I am also trying to unsubscribe! To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII PLEASE remove me from the list. My interest was only peripheral, having owned a Land Rover (1964 IIA SWB). However I do not find the discussions of relevance to me now. |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | Phil Irvine CSIRO Division of Wool Technology,RYDE, NSW, AUSTRALIA 2112 | | Tel: +61 2 809-9341 Fax: +61 2 809-9476 Email:p.irvine@syd.dwt.csiro.au | |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 17:40:58 1993 Return-Path: Via: uk.ac.lancaster.central1; Mon, 10 May 1993 10:02:01 +0100 From: Ross Subject: Bent Body To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (lro) Date: Mon, 10 May 1993 09:59:56 +0100 (BST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1106 Last weekend, I sadly became a new member of the 'nearly working Land Rover' club as previously advertised in these listings. Before taking out a 6 metre wide section of dry stone wall between Ingleton and Hawes (North Yorks), I had a shortened Range Rover V8, complete with Series III truck cab body. Surprisingly, the chassis and all the steering gear is fine (didnt even knock the tracking out) and both of us weathered the 40mph impact without so much as a scratch. What I am looking for now, is a good source of second hand bodywork, for the said vehicle. I spent friday night and Saturday removing all the old body, right down to a rolling chassis again and discovered that I need the following bits: Two complete front wings, a drivers side door (bottom and top really), and a replacement back body. I also need a new radiator (110 makes the best fit) and a 4 sp RR box drivers side mounting rubber. So, if there are any (British) subscribers out there who know of anybody (preferably in the N.Yorks area) who is breaking an old Series three, I am definitely interested. Many thanks Ross From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 18:01:25 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: VAT and the Art of Land Rover maintenance To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 10 May 93 14:43:27 BST For those who may be interested,the current rate of the dreaded VAT in this great laand of ours is 17.5%.As of about six months ago,it was decreed by those Parliamentary Pillocks who try to make us beleive that they govern us wisely,that all adverts in magazines must include VAT.This appears to include parts and services,but to *exclude* vehicles.To the uninitiated,a Land Rover with a "blind" hardtop,softtop,or truck cab (pickup) attracts VAT.On the other hand,a "window" hardtop,softop station wagon etc is deemed to be a car,not a commercial vehicle and is therefore not VATTED.Why? Dont ask me,I'm just reasonably rational human being,but I think it had something to do with businesses being able to recover VAT. I must admit it has been something of a shock to realise that you can probably import spares onto the North American continent from here,and pay little or nothing more for them than we do. AND your petrol is cheaper!Gawd,if I wasnnt so old I'd emigrate. Mid you,i wouldnt want Dixon's weather,either:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 18:49:08 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 13 May 93 15:53:53 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, phil@syd.dwt.csiro.au Subject: Re: I am also trying to unsubscribe! Content-Length: 849 Repeat Send requests for alias changes to; land-rover-owner-request@stratus.com > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 15:04:03 1993 > Subject: I am also trying to unsubscribe! > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Mime-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type> : > TEXT/PLAIN> ; > charset=US-ASCII> > Content-Length: 477 > X-Lines: 10 > > PLEASE remove me from the list. > My interest was only peripheral, having owned a Land Rover (1964 IIA SWB). > However I do not find the discussions of relevance to me now. > > |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| > | Phil Irvine CSIRO Division of Wool Technology,RYDE, NSW, AUSTRALIA 2112 | > | Tel: +61 2 809-9341 Fax: +61 2 809-9476 Email:p.irvine@syd.dwt.csiro.au | > |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| > > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 18:51:59 1993 Return-Path: From: jory@athena.mit.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: overdrives Date: Tue, 11 May 93 01:45:05 EDT fromwhat i understand, the toro overdrive is no longer manufactured and looked to be a kluge from a design standpoint... the potential bonus of a larger oil reservoir is outweighed (i ave been told) by the fact that both units are splash oil bath lubricating, so once the oil falls below the level of the spinning bits, you get no lubrication... thus, the larger oil reservoir doesn't help, since both units have the same topped off oil level... -jory From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 19:07:58 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 11 May 93 12:10:56 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, jory@athena.mit.edu Subject: Re: overdrives For what it's worth: I have had a Toro overdrive on my '64 SIIa-88" for about four years and 40K miles. ELEPHINO has been over the Sierra Nevadas many times in blizzards and sub zero tempretures and on many Black Rock Desert trips trough sand, mud in 115 F temps. carrying; two weeks supplies, four full Jerry cans, my Air Camping tent, me, wife and three kids, and the dog. No problem. When I first installed the OD the oil was "pumping" out of the transfer case into the OD. This was discovered when I found 90 weight oil sprayed on the rear after runs on the freeway. The OD was getting full and pushing oil out the vent hole. I installed a drain tube from the OD to the transfer case by just replacing the oil level check plugs with hose barbs connected with a length of 3/8" fuel hose. This was in place for about a year and several adventures. On one of the desert trips after a long run on the hyway I smelled HOT 90 weight, so I stopped to check it out. The dip stick was missing from the OD and it was low on oil. I filled it up, made a plug for the hole and continued the trip. The oil had run into the transfer... down the tube, due to driving up and down steep hills in hot temps. The dip stick must have been blown out, as it was a snug fit with an "o" ring. This occurrence made me think that the oil wasn't pumping but was being forced by air pressure from the transfer to the OD. I removed the "drain tube" and installed a vent tube between the OD and the transfer case and the atmosphere. This has been on for three years and now the oil in each section stays there. The vent tube is up high and I can install a cap for very deep wading. I disagree that the Toro is a kludge, The extra oil capacity is an advantage. Both brands of OD will give good service if they are kept full of oil. I suspect that many ODs have died because they have been run dry. I have the remains of two Toros that were given to me. Both are fried due to lack of oil. I hope to get one complete, working unit from this pile of parts, for my 88 PU. CONSUMER NOTICE: Because of the "Uncertainty Principle," It Is Impossible for the Consumer to Find Out at the Same Time Both Precisely Where This Product Is and How Fast It Is Moving. Regards, Bill G. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 10 22:49:32 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: overdrives > Content-Length: 455 > X-Lines: 12 > > > fromwhat i understand, the toro overdrive is no longer manufactured > and looked to be a kluge from a design standpoint... > > the potential bonus of a larger oil reservoir is outweighed > (i ave been told) by the fact that both units are splash oil > bath lubricating, so once the oil falls below the level of > the spinning bits, you get no lubrication... thus, the larger > oil reservoir doesn't help, since both units have the same topped > off oil level... > > -jory > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu May 13 23:14:18 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: dhuddles@gandalf.ca Subject: Tales of woe... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 13 May 1993 21:06:41 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Well, some tales of woes about the big beastie in the laneway. Let us start at Wednesday. After phone call to Ted Rose, a fellow LR owner and mechanic, I got all of the details on what had to be modified and changed on the Rover for it to satisfy the safety requirements for the Province of Ontario. Thus Wednesday evening off to the laneway I did go, a box of spanners in hand to partake in rearranging things that already worked. Ontario, for some strange reason, requires that the tail lights on a vehicle must all match horizontally. Well, Gotterdamerung (still tentitive name) had two pointy Lucas lights on the right, a flat Lucas light for the left sidelamp/brake light, and something off of a boat (really!) for the turn indicator. Well, everything happily came apart, the boat lamp ditched and an old flat lens assembly found to replace it. In the removal process one screw broke, and I discovered that I was actaully missing three other screws in total. One lamp was left in situ, not having a requirement to move. (Of course, this will the lamp that will feature later on...) Normally exhibiting sights of early brain death, I happily exchanged all of the assemblies and was ready to test the mess out. When it came time to put the bulbs in, I discovered that two assemblies were offset studs on the lamps themselves, and two were the horizontally parallel in nature. Of course, I had no spare bulbs between the single and double filament types. It was also at this point that I discovered that I lacked enough screws to put the lense covers back on. So with a little rearranging, some silicon bathroom caulking the lenses did go back on, and were in a ordered fashion as proscribed by Ontario law. Now would this work? Of course not. When the side lamps were on, the lights glowed a little bit, but not too much. Applying the brakes, made the left light up, the right went completely dead. After much wiring checking, being at a loss to know what was going on, a quick phone call to David H. made me look more seriously at the grounding. Well, on the assembly that I didn't touch, the soldiered wire for grounding had managed to come loose. Well, a Tridon clamp around the assembly solved that problem... So a fifteen minute job happily turned into a two hour ordeal... I do know that rear harness though... The floors and gearbox cover all went back in. Of course, I was missing a good number of the screws, so there are phillips, robertson, and flathead screws holding that mess together. It was now ready for a safety... The safety was not done, as other problems came to light. The dead muffler could not be replaced as the tail pipe assembly was so frail that nothing could be welded to it. Petrol fumes underthere, signifying some greater problems with the petrol tank also preclude addig a oxy-acetelene torch to the gaseous atmosphere in the rear half of the undercarriage. Ted was also not impressed with the wiring behind the dash. Sometime long ago, someone set the wires off of the large barrel ignition switch to a position whereby you must turn the side, or head, lamps on before the starter will engage. Ted claims that this is a bodge job, I just claim that this is the way that I found it, and it works. Ted had to jump the selanoid to get it to start, and then phoned to tell me that my selanoid had died. I corrected his impressions. So, is the wiring fashion of my ignition switch consistent with Rover practices in 1964? The gearbox brake actually works! I had avoided touching the thing, figuring it was going to be a disaster to look at. A little WD-40 on the lever mechanism, and the thing worked. After 20 years, that is pretty impressive. So what to do now? Well, a phone call to Merseyside in the UK has a petrol tank and a silencer-tailpipe assembly coming my way. In the meantime, I have a fist full of temperory permits from the Quebec Ministry of Transport to prowl the highways and byways of each province. :-) The Rover is running quite well, despite being rather thirsty. With a petrol tank full of sludge, an army jerry can in the rear toolbox doesn't hold enough petrol for a long journey Lots of stops for filling. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 14 08:23:46 1993 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 08:09:28 -1812 Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 08:09:28 -1812 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: 16" tires What exactly is the advantage to moving up to 16" tires on an 88? I do know that it changes your gearing. Is that significant? Will the tire fit easily within the wells (it sure looks like it should)? When I was in New Mexico, at 7000 ft, my rover was doing a lot of huffing and puffing so I'm wondering whether in this situation putting 16" tires on it might just be too much. In other words I was running out of power and making my gearing "longer" might not be the best thing. Any thoughts - Greg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 14 18:08:25 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 14 May 93 15:53:47 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Subject: Re: 16" tires Greg, The tires and wheels will fit your 88" just like they were made for it. If you fit them you might have to adjust the steering stops so the tires don't hit the frame at full lock (easy to do). You will loose a bit of turning radius. I have 7.50X16 Michelen XC4s on mine. They are not real wide, but I have pulled other Rovers with wide tires out of puddles that I had just chugged right through. The advantage is increased clearance and, as you point out, higher final drive ratio for road use. These tires in combination with the overdrive give me the right "gear" for any hill. I've never figured the exact numbers but I'd bet that 3rd gear OD with my "tall" 16" tires is close to the same engine RPM as std. size 15"ers in 4th. If that gear doesn't work, I've 15 others to choose from. Regards, Bill G. HANDLE WITH EXTREME CARE: This Product Contains Minute Electrically Charged Particles Moving at Velocities in Excess of Five Hundred Million Miles Per Hour. > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri May 14 06:20:01 1993 > Posted-Date: Fri, 14 May 1993 08:09:28 -1812 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > X-Sender: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Unverified) > Subject: 16" tires > Content-Length: 502 > X-Lines: 11 > > What exactly is the advantage to moving up to 16" tires on an 88? I do know > that it changes your gearing. Is that significant? Will the tire fit easily > within the wells (it sure looks like it should)? > When I was in New Mexico, at 7000 ft, my rover was doing a lot of huffing > and puffing so I'm wondering whether in this situation putting 16" tires on > it might just be too much. In other words I was running out of power and > making my gearing "longer" might not be the best thing. > > Any thoughts - > Greg > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 15 07:48:19 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: 16" tires From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 01:30:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) writes: > What exactly is the advantage to moving up to 16" tires on an 88? - A larger circumference, thus a higher speed on the road. - More clearence for going over largish objects. > Will the tire fit easily within the wells (it sure looks like it should)? Without a problem. The wells on an 88 and a 109 are the same. The 109 has a larger turning radius because of the larger tyres, but this has to do with the bump stops. You may have to make an adjustment, though I don't think so. > When I was in New Mexico, at 7000 ft, my rover was doing a lot of huffing > and puffing so I'm wondering whether in this situation putting 16" tires on > it might just be too much. In other words I was running out of power and > making my gearing "longer" might not be the best thing. You have sixteen gears to choose from. I don't think you have to worry very much. Just think of the petrol you will save with the extra speed for the same gearing that you will get. Half the members in the OVLR are trying to find 16" rims. Those that have are using them. For tyres, Firestone makes an excellent bias ply tyre that is self cleaning and very aggressive. I don't know if they are available in North America, but they give the Rover a nice look when compared to the modern radials from Michelin (of course, the Michelins, r at least the higher end ones, may be better in the mud. I don't here.) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat May 15 22:40:26 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Something to buy quickly.... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 15 May 1993 23:25:27 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Monday I go and get some backup lights for the Rover. Big suckers too... Backing into my laneway this evening the Rover strayed from its appointed path and hit a really big tree at about 5mph +. Stopped the beast dead. Now the right rear, lower body work is a little crushed in. Happily the tail lamps survived without a scratch. I guess the little lamp to illuminate the licence plate is not really the thing to try to use on a lane way that is two dark strips of gravel/mud between the lawn. It wouldn't have been so bad if I hadn't had my head out the window trying to see where I was going. Gotta a real nice headache now. Rgds, Dixon (slightly bashed 109") -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 17 05:21:03 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Rims and Tyres...... To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Mon, 17 May 93 11:12:53 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Greg Hiner (hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu) asks: > What exactly is the advantage to moving up to 16" tires on an 88?.... 16" is a rim size, not a tyre size. In the UK, all LR's have 16" rims. SWB rims are 5" wide and carry 6.00-16 tyres, whilst LWB rims are 5.5" wide and carry 7.50-16 tyres. Just for interest Range Rover steel rims are 6" wide and carry 205R16 tyres. As far as gearing goes the 750's give about a 10% road speed increase over the 600's or 205's, roughly speaking. If you put 750's on an 88 your speedo will read low (you can correct this with a new speedo gear). I use them on mine for ground clearance. 750's are typically (not all) cross-plies with 100% aspect ratio - if you want radials then 235/85R16's are often suggested but you should really have a 7" or bigger rim for these. Since they are wider than 750's you will have better floatation, in other words they won't dig in mud (bad) or sand (good). Horses for courses..... Best compromise at the moment seems to be the BFG TracEdge in 7.50R16; a narrow radial - good off road and quiet on road; use >=5.5" rims. Am I to assume that US LR's have 15" rims as standard?? Hope this helps, Cheers, Steve. (V8 AirPortable with 7.50-16 Firestone SATs) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 17 16:25:57 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 17 May 93 14:18:07 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com, sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Subject: Re: Rims and Tyres...... In the US, the 16" rims were optional. I think 88s came only with 15' rims. My 109 (orignally Canadian) came with narrow 16" rims. I have replaced them with wider 15" steel spoke wheels and tyres that are the same diameter as I had on the 16" rims. Weighs a little more, but I have a wider foot track & white spokers. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 00:31:24 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Rims and Tyres...... From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 17 May 1993 23:51:18 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Steve Methley writes: > Am I to assume that US LR's have 15" rims as standard?? The 88's were fitted with 15 inch rims, the 109's with 16 inch rims as a standard. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 02:25:20 1993 Return-Path: Posted-Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 02:05:52 -1812 Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 02:05:52 -1812 To: lro@transfer.stratus.com From: hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg Hiner) Subject: Land Rover supplier list (long) 17/5/93 Here is a collected list of suppliers, dealers, and such pertaining to the Land Rover. Please comment as to any typos and especially any comments you would like to pass along as to the various suppliers listed (so we can have an annotated list). Greg - hiner@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Thanks to - Paul Anderson - ACUS05@WACCVM.corp.mot.com Mark V Grieshaber - mvgrie@shute.monsanto.com Bruce Harding - Bruce_Harding@ccm.hf.intel.com Dixon Kenner - dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca Mike Rooth - M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk R. Glenn Stauffer - stauffer@cc.swarthmore.edu ******LAND ROVERS - RESTORED, USED, & PARTS (USA)****** ---------- Atlantic British Ltd Box 110 Rover Ridge Drive Mechanicville, NY 12118 (800) 533-2210 Orders only (518) 664-6169 Technical questions (518) 664-6641 Fax Free catalog Lots of aftermarket parts Many "oem" parts, but not Land Rover authorized ---------- B. Jones & Associates (Brian Jones) Import/Export Trading 23 N. West Street, Allentown, PA 18102 (215) 437-6125 This company imports Land Rovers from England to order. Generally, they handle pre-1968 vehicles, Series II and IIa 88" 3-door wagons, 109" 5-door wagons, 2-door pickups, and 3-door wagons. They occaisionally bring in Series I 80" or 86" soft or hard-top vehicles. Other specialized models can be special ordered. Series IIa 109 gas $6300 diesel $6100 Series II 109 gas $6100 diesel $5900 ---------- CARS Camarillo, CA (800) 882-1349 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- The British Northwest Land-Rover Co. 1043 Kaiser Rd. SW Olympia, WA 98502 parts - (206) 866-2254 sales - (206) 866-2381 ---------- D.A.P. Enterprises, Inc. 7 Kendrick Road Wareham, MA 02571 (508) 291-1311 Range Rover and Land Rover parts & accessories - warehouse distributors for Lucas & Girling ---------- Nisonger Victory Gardens, NJ (800) 431-2496 Maintains comprehensive product lines for the Jaguar, MG and Triumph. They have recently added Range Rover parts. ---------- Rovers North Box 61 Route 128 Westford, VT 05494 (802) 879-0032 Authorized Land Rover parts supplier Free catalog Restoration program: - Customer must sign up (no cost) - Rovers North tracks your cumulative purchases - When you "cash out", you receive a discount (7% to 20%) on future purchases based on the amount you have purchased up to that point ---------- Rover's West Eight Parts 4060 Michigan Tucson, AZ 85714 (602) 748-8115 ---------- Roverworks - New York 800-999-6402 Land Rovers available: 1959-1974 Full Restorations, All Components rebuilt Base Model 88 $17,000 109 Regular $19,500 109 Safari $24,000 Used Models (currently importing a wide range of models from the UK. Prices start at $5,000) 1967 88 hardtop (VG) $ 8,000 1961 109 Safari $19,000 1967 109 Safari $12,000 Roverworks also sells restoration kits and new and rebuilt parts. ******LAND ROVERS - PARTS (GREAT BRITIAN)****** ---------- A.E.W Paddock Motors Ltd The Showground The Cliff Matlock Derbyshire DE4 5EW Tel 0629 584499 Fax 0629 584498 ---------- Famous Four Tattershall Way Fairfield Industrial Estate Louth Lincolnshire LN11 0YA Tel 0507 609444 Fax 0507 609555 ---------- John Craddock Ltd. 70-76 North Street Bridgtown Cannock Staffordshire WS11 3AZ Tel 0543 577207 or 505408 Fax 0543 504818 ---------- Merseyside Land Rover Services Ltd. Bridge Industrial Estate Speke Hall Road Speke (Nr. Airport) Liverpool L24 9HE tel 051 486 8636 fax 051 486 5986 ---------- P.A.Blanchard & Co. Clay Lane Shiptonthorpe York YO4 3RU Tel 0430 872765 Fax 0430 872777 Deal in ex-military spares & vehicles. Careful! may not fit civilian versions ******MAGAZINES AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS****** LRO International c/o Mercury Airfrieght Int. 2323 Randolph Avenue New Jersey 07001 Cost $50 US/year also this address LRO Publications LTD. The Hollies, Botesdale, Diss, Norfolk IP22 1BZ UK ******LAND ROVER CLUBS****** Land Rover of North America (LRONA) PO BOX 6836 OAKLAND CA 94603 USA. Editor - Brad Blevins 2998 Atlantic St Concord, CA 94518 USA voice or fax (510) 687-1188. ******LAND ROVER DEALERS****** Andrew Cadillac Company (615) 373-3800 Maryland Farms Brentwood, TN 37024 Aristocrat Motor Company, Inc (913) 677-3300 9400 West 65th Street Shawnee Mission, KS 66203 Ascot Imported Cars, Inc. (412) 741-3300 418 Walnut Street Sewickley, PA 15143 Autohaus Tischer, Inc (301) 498-7400 3225 Ft. Meade Road Laurel, MD 20707 Automaster (802) 985-8482 Route 7 Box 220 Shelburne, VT 05482 Baker Motor of Charleston, Inc. (803) 577-3885 1081 Morrison Drive Charleston, SC 29403 Barney Garver Motors (713) 869-4855 7025 Katy Road Houston, TX 77024 Bauer Motors (714) 971-5550 2025 South Manchester Avenue Anaheim, CA 92802 Baxter Chysler-Plymouth, Inc. (402) 493-7800 11910 West Dodge Road Omaha, NE 68154 Benson Motor Company (504) 522-2365 2001 St. Charles Avenue New Orleans, LA 70130 Berndt Classic Imports (414) 543-3000 2400 South 108th Street Milwaukee, WI 53227 Bill Jacobs Motorsport, Inc. (708) 357-1200 1564 West Ogden Avenue Naperville, IL 60566 Bluff City British Cars, Inc. (901) 743-4422 1810 B Getwell Road Memphis, TN 38111 Bob Moore Cadillac, Inc. (405) 232-0381 400 North Walker Oklahoma City, OK 73102 Brandywine Motor Cars, Inc. (215) 696-1220 715 Auto Park Boulevard West Chester, PA 19382 British Motor Car Distributors, LTD (415) 776-7700 901 Van Ness Avenue San Francisco, CA 94109 Carousel Automobiles (612) 544-9591 8989 Wayzata Boulevard Minneapolis, MN 55426 Chaisson Motor Cars (702) 871-1010 2333 South Decatur Boulevard Las Vegas, NV 89102 Cherry Hill Imports, Corp. (609) 665-5370 2261 Route 70 West Cherry Hill, NJ 08002 Cole European (415) 935-2653 2103 North Main Street Walnut Creek, CA 94596 Continental Cars Limited (808) 537-5365 1069 South Beretania Street Honululu, HI 96814 Don Rasmussen Company (503) 226-0380 2001 SouthWest Jefferson Street Portland, OR 97201 Don Snell Buick, Inc. (800) 231-3445 11400 North Central Expressway Dallas, TX 75243 Fields Range Rover (407) 695-9100 265 North Highway 17-92 Longwood, FL 32750 Foreign Motors West, Inc. (508) 655-5350 235 North Main Street Natick, MA 01760 Frankel Cadillac Company (410) 484-8800 201 Reisterstown Road Baltimore, MD 21208 Fred Lavery Company (313) 645-5930 499 South Hunter Boulevard Birmingham, MI 48009 Frederick Cadillac, LTD (206) 728-7900 2301 6th Avenue Seattle, WA 98121 Gengras Motor Cars (203) 522-6134 One Weston Park Road Hartford, CT 06120 Great Britains (215) 443-5900 Old York Road & Penn Turnpike Willow Grove, PA 19090 Gregg Motors (805) 682-2000 402 South Hope Avenue Santa Barbara, CA 93105 Grubbs European Motors, Inc. (817) 560-9000 2900 Alta Mere Drive Fort Worth, TX 76116 Gunn Infinity/Range Rover (512) 824-1272 750 N.E. Loop 410 San Antonio, TX 78217 H.B.L., Inc. (703) 442-8200 8545 Leesburg Pike Vienna, VA 22180 Haron Motor Sales (209) 237-5533 2222 Ventura Avenue Fresno, CA 93721 Haywood-Clarke Rover (804) 379-3510 11650 Midlothian Pike Midlothian, VA 23113 Hendrick Imports (704) 535-0885 6950 East Independence Boulevard Charlotte, NC 28227 Hennessy Cadillac, Inc. (404) 261-5700 3040 Piedmont Road Atlanta, GA 30305 Holiday Automotive, Inc. (806) 359-2886 4600 Canyon Drive Amarillo, TX 79109 Holts House of Vehicles, Inc. (716) 334-0880 3925 West Henrietta Road Rochester, NY 14623 Hornburg Jaguar, Inc. (213) 272-7737 9176 Sunset Boulevard Los Angeles, CA 90069 Hornburg Jaguar, Inc. (213) 453-3377 3300 Olympic Boulevard Santa Monica, CA 90404 Hubacher Cadillac, Inc. (916) 929-2777 #1 Cadillac Drive Sacramento, CA 95823 Jack Kaplan's, LTD (401) 461-2000 206 Elmwood Avenue Providence, RI 02907 Keller Motor Car Company (518) 785-4197 1111 Troy-Schnectady Road Latham, NY 12110 Knauz Continental Autos, Inc. (708) 234-1700 1044 North Western Avenue Lake Forest, IL 60045 Ladd Hanford Jaguar-Volvo (717) 272-9500 2247 West Cumberland Street Lebanon, PA 17042 Larry Dimmitt Cadillac, Inc. (813) 797-7070 25191 U.S. Highway 19 North Clearwater, FL 34623 Leith, Inc. (919) 876-5432 5601 Capital Boulevard Raleigh, NC 27629 Lyle Pearson Company, Inc. (208) 377-3900 351 Auto Drive Boise, ID 83709 Midwestern Auto Group (614) 889-2571 5016 Post Road Dublin, OH 43017 Newport Imports, Inc. (714) 722-4000 3000 West Pacific Coast Highway Newport Beach, CA 92663 Palm Beach Motor Cars (407) 659-6206 915 South Dixie Highway West Palm Beach, FL 33401 Paul Miller, Inc. (201) 575-7750 250 U.S. Route 46 Parsippany, NJ 07054 Pepe Autos Ltd. (914) 949-4000 50 Bank Street White Plains, NY 10606 Phillips Oldsmolbile, Inc. (804) 499-3771 4949 Virginia Beach Boulevard Virginia Beach, VA 23462 Pioneer Centres (619) 695-3000 9020 Miramar Road San Diego, CA 92126 Pioneer's Land Rover Centre (303) 920-9888 109 Aspen Airport Business Center Aspen, CO 81611 Pioneer Centres, Inc. (303) 751-1500 2950 Havana Street Aurora, CO 80014 Plaza Motor Company (314) 569-1311 11830 Olive Street Road Creve Coeur, MO 63141 Prestige Motors, Inc. (201) 265-7800 405 Route 17 Paramus, NJ 07652 R.A.B. Motors, Inc. (415) 454-0582 540 Francisco Boulevard West San Rafael, CA 94901 Land Rover Land (516) 674-8500 350 Glen Head Road Glen Head, NY 11545 Range Rover of Darien (203) 655-7451 1335 Post Road Darien, CT 06820 Range Rover-Clevland (216) 932-9460 3020 Mayfield Road Cleveland Heights, OH 44118 Red Noland Cadillac, Inc. (719) 633-4633 1260 Motor City Drive Colorado Springs, CO 80906 Riverside Motor, Inc. (501) 666-9457 1403 Rebsamen Road Little Rock, AR 72202 San Jose British Motors (408) 246-7600 4040 Stevens Creek Boulevard San Jose, CA 95129 Sandia Imports (505) 884-0066 3400 Menaul Boulevard NorthEast Albuquerque, NM 87107 Schneider & Nelson, Inc. (908) 389-1000 270 Highway No. 36 West Long Branch, NJ 07764 Scott Motor Company (702) 826-0661 2401 South Virginia Street Reno, NV 89502 Scottsdale Jaguar, LTD (602) 990-9000 6925 East McDowell Road Scottsdale, AZ 85257 Shelton Imports, Inc. (813) 263-6070 850 North Tamiami Trail Naples, FL 33940 South Bay Autohaus (310) 534-3333 3233 Pacific Coast Highway Torrance, CA 90505 Symes Cadillac, Inc. (818) 795-3381 3475 East Colorado Boulevard Pasadena, CA 91107 Terry York Motor Cars (818) 990-9870 15800 Ventura Boulevard Encino, CA 91436 Tom Williams Motors, Inc. (205) 252-9512 2200 3rd Avenue South Birmingham, AL 35233 Tom Wood Range Rover (317) 848-7447 3473 East 96th Street Indianapolis, IN 46240 Volkswagen Intermountain - Range Rover (800) 748-4689 3711 South State Street Salt Lake City, UT 84115 Warren Henry Automobiles, Inc. (305) 654-3900 20802 NorthWest 2nd Avenue Miami, FL 33169 Willians Ford Sales, Inc. (513) 891-0500 9260 Montgomery Road Cincinnati, OH 45242 Zumbach Sports Cars, LTD (212) 582-5613 629 West 54th Street New York, NY 10019 Range Rover on Bay (416) 928-9096 76 Davenport Road Toronto, Ontario M5R 1H3 Budd's Imported Cars (416) 845-1443 513 Speers Road Oakvill, Ontario L6K 2G4 Automobiles Elegante (514) 374-6550 4350 Boulevard Metropolitain Est. Montreal, Quebec H1S 1A2 David Morris Fine Cars, LTD (403) 484-9000 17210 103rd Avenue Edmonton, Alberta T5S 1N1 Lone Star Inc. (403) 253-1333 100 Glendeer Circle, SouthEast Calgary, Alberta T2H 2S8 MCL Motor Cars (604) 738-5577 1730 Burrard Street Vancouver, British Columbia V6J 3G7 Chapman Motors Limited (902) 453-2110 3363 Kempt Road Halifax, Nova Scotia B3K 4X5 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 05:51:31 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: 15 inch rims To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Tue, 18 May 93 11:43:17 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Dixon writes: > The 88's were fitted with 15 inch rims, the 109's with 16 inch > rims as a standard. Any idea why this was done? Seems strange to us UK types. Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 07:08:30 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: 15 inch rims To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Tue, 18 May 93 11:43:17 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 64.9.hplb.1] Dixon writes: > The 88's were fitted with 15 inch rims, the 109's with 16 inch > rims as a standard. Any idea why this was done? Seems strange to us UK types. Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 11:31:23 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:17:38 GMT From: u10122%y1.sdsc.edu@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: rims terriann saiz.. >In the US, the 16" rims were optional. I think 88s came only with 15' rims. I took a second look at the farm rig's soles this past weekend. it has 16" rims and we've had it since birth....thus I am sure 88's were available with 16inchers. rd From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 11:59:15 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 18 May 93 09:51:31 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: rims My 109 came with 16" rims in 67 (the standard 5.5" width rim) I have an extra set of wide rims (8" width) for running 11" wide tires, this was a very good system back then. It seems that today, however, there are not as many tires available for 16" rims, the majority being for either 15" or 16.5". Anyone know a good wide tire (10-12" width) with a tread that is not too agressive available in 16"? Most os what I have found seem to be just truck (highway) tires. -Pete- ps. nothing would get those nasty broken bolts out. I ended up drilling them out to proper diameter and taping new threads in them . From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 18:45:23 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 18 May 93 16:41:12 PST From: Bruce Harding To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Supplier >The British Northwest Land-Rover Co. >1043 Kaiser Rd. SW >Olympia, WA 98502 >parts - (206) 866-2254 >sales - (206) 866-2381 When dealing with these folks you need to verify costs and availabities over the phone or you may be suprised. Ask if an item is being back ordered or 'special' made. I ordered a seat cushion which was in their catalog. The price in the catalog was $69.90 (I also had a bunch of other parts on the same order). No mention was made that the seat cushion was out of stock, just that I would have my parts the next day (I'm only 100 miles from them so UPS ground gets to me in 1 day). When I received my order the seat cushion was not there...it had been backordered, and they kept out $80 for the cushion. I called to ask them about it (no 800 number) they said that the cushion would be sent with a week. When the cushion arrived not only did they charge my credit card again, but they cahrged me $79 for the cushion. Again, I called to find out what was going on. They forgot that they had already charged me for the cushion and agreed to credit my charge card. I said fine, but your catalog listed the cushion for $69.60, why was I charged $79. I was informed that they had to 'special' order the material to make it so they passed this cost on to me. At this point I said fine and made up my mind to deal with Rovers North in the future. To top it off, I had to call back again (on my dime) a month later because they hadn't credited my charge card. I did get my card credited but rang up a phone bill doing so. After all this happened I sent out a message to the group asking where people purchased their parts and NOBODY replied they used this outfit. I then looked back over my invoice numbers to discover they issue an average of 9 invoices a week over an 8 month period...and several of these were return/backorder invoices of mine. I can't beleive they sell many LR's as their prices are extremely high, although their LR's are very nice. I wonder how they stay in business. Does anybody use them? If so, what's your experience? bruce_harding@ccm.hf.intel.com 88" Series IIa From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 19:00:37 1993 Return-Path: To: Bruce Harding Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Supplier In-Reply-To: Bruce_Harding's message of Tue, 18 May 93 17:41:12 -0800. <930518164112_5@ccm.hf.intel.com> Date: Tue, 18 May 1993 16:53:33 PDT Sender: Chris Kent Kantarjiev From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" There are fraud laws that cover this sort of behaviour. It is essentially illegal to charge your card for parts that haven't yet been shipped/delivered, to cover just this sort of situation. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue May 18 19:21:35 1993 Return-Path: From: leefi@microsoft.com To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: British NW Land Rover Co (was: Supplier) Date: Tue, 18 May 93 17:10:22 PDT > From: Bruce Harding > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: Supplier > >> The British Northwest Land-Rover Co. >> 1043 Kaiser Rd. SW; Olympia, WA 98502 >> parts - (206) 866-2254 >> sales - (206) 866-2381 ... > Does anybody use them? If so, what's your experience? > > bruce_harding@ccm.hf.intel.com > 88" Series IIa i have also had bad experiences with this company. unfortunately at that time in my Land Rover career it was the only place i knew of to get parts. i would go to great lengths to get parts/service from any other Rover company that i've dealt with instead of these folks. and i got my Series IIA from someone who lived in Olympia (same city as this company) and their main reason for selling their rover was frustration with this company (and they didn't have any other contacts). __ Lee Fisher, leefi@microsoft.com, +1.206.936.8621 '69 Series IIA SWB, '93 Defender LWB From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 24 08:04:11 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fearful!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Questions et cetera From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 23 May 1993 21:45:03 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec Hmmm, mail volume seems to really drop when I am not churning out hundreds of words, where ten would probably suffice. Of well, such is the nature of the muse. Now for a question that I had asked once before, but being buried in the middle of one of my 120 line efforts, was probably missed. On my Rover, to actually get it to start I have to both turn the ignition key on, and turn the sidelamps on. Turning just the ignition key results in nothing when I press the starter. Turning the sidelamps on then pressing the starter button makes the starter motor turn, but the engine will not fire. Thus, obviously, both have to be turned on. Is the above situation normal for other IIA owners? If not, could someone post the wiring arrangement on the back of their large barrel-type ignition switch? BTW, The Rover is still running fine... :-) Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Breckenridge, Quebec, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon May 24 08:04:07 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 24 May 93 02:04:30 EDT From: Inside every Volvo is an Idiot trying to get out To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Potential IIA purchase I went LandRover shopping this weekend and found a candidate 1969, IIA, 88" LR. It has a few problems (oh, really?) and I wanted to get some free netWisdom on what is or isn't significant: . Frame has surface rust of course but seems mostly solid. It looks like the spring shackles and various outriggers will last a few years. At least two frame welders have been at it, though. The box part has been reinforced up in the engine area and the crossmember in the transmission area has been rewelded. Rear crossmember looks fine. Actually, now that I look at the Hayes, that middle crossmember is probably a replacement: it has a circular cross-section. . Front ball joints are a bit pitted and scored but they don't *seem* to be leaking much. They are clean and without rust. Wheels were clean. . Transfer case had a good coating of oil on the outside but no obvious source of leakage was visible. Some oil/dirt was building up in the 'throw area' of the r