From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 1 00:26:22 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Past Posts From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1993 23:33:43 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) writes: > Does anyone have a log of the posts from 27,28,29 September? Our server was > down and I missed out. Just send me yes answers, and I'll contact one of > you back (E-mail me direct in case the thing crashes again). I have most, if not all, messages from 14 April 1993 online (messages 415 through 964). Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 1 09:49:39 1993 Return-Path: From: Dan Chayes Subject: intro and emissions questions To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 1 Oct 93 10:32:29 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Hello All; Thanks all for your replys to my 'test' posting to the lro mailing list. I don't think I'm acutally subscribed as I did not receive a copy of my posting. I hope that sometime in the near future I'll be added to the mailing list. I sent my request in a couple of weeks ago :-( So I would appreicate it if you would send me your responses directly to dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil Yes, I do share a life with a Land-Rover. I recently acquired a '74 88 Series III in "good" condition. The vehicle has about 60k miles on it and the engine was rebuilt in baltimore, maryland in '85 and has about 30k miles on it. It has a farily overdrive and the transmission seems to "pop" out of second a little too often, and the engine is in dire need of a good tuning and the carb a good cleaning. First off I have to figure out why the distribuator move/rotates even when the lockdown bolt is fairly tight, any ideas ? The previous owner only had it for 6 months but during that time he replaced the back end of the frame, front "horns", floorboards, installed new "tall" tires on the original 15" rims, and rebuilt/repaired the brakes. In addition he painted the whole vehicle painted tan, including the roof. The prep job for the paint work is good, but I think earl schibe could do a better job sparying paint. The original color was poppy seed red. The frame is in good shape a few signs of rust but nothing serious. There is some rust perforation of the fire wall and the bottom of the door frames are on their last legs, I guess I'll be looking into that. I'm in the process of repairing the clutch hydrolic system. Some time in the past the original hydrolic clutch line from the master cly. was replaced by a plumbers dream that had about 6 joints in it in the span of about 8inches. Needless to say that was leaking a tad. I just received the parts yesterday and hope to install them this evening. and the I'll be back on the road. :-) A on to fixing other items. In Alexandria, VA all vehicles less then 21 years of age need polution inspection. After some investigation it has been determined that the rover should have a PCV system ( which it does ) and an fuel evaporative system, which it does not apperar to have. There are two fuel lines leading from the gas tank into the engine compartment. One goes to the inlet of the mechanical fuel pump, up to a fuel filter located midline on top of the fire wall and then into the carb. The other fuel line looks like it was chopped off and is just sitting in the engine compartment near the base of the air filter. Does anybody know where this line should go, or what the original configuration for the evaporative control system was ? A couple of other questions - Is there an archive site for the landrover owners mailing list ? I'd like to gather tidbits of information and wisdom from it with out asking the entire group the same old tired questions. Why does it leak oil, does it have anything to do with it's british heritage :-). Cheers Dan -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Lab, Code 7420 (202) 767-2024 (voice) Washington D.C. 20375-5320 (202) 767-0167 (fax) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 3 11:52:16 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 3 Oct 93 16:35:25 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: nightmare Nigel's gotta blown water pump bearing. It used to have this grinding sound-now it is a full-blown squeek and massive leaks have developed. Yesterday, I decided to remove the pump-something that hadn't been done for decades. Unfortunately, two of three bolts that hold the pump on that bolt into the block itself (these three bolt through the timing chain cover on the right side of the engine as viewed from the front and hold the pump on in the vicinity of the coolant entry to the block) managed to sheer off. I am now left with two broken studs that are deeply recessed into the timing chain cover and as I see it, I have two options: 1) try to use an EZ-out with the timing chain cover on. This could be tough. It will be difficult enough to drill a straight-on hole into the broken studs (without being able to see them), much less get an EZ-out straight into them. Additionally, I will be unable to get pentrating oil into the threads and/or heat the block with the cover in place. 2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same. To get the cover off I will need to remove the pulley on the mainshaft. My Rover workshop manual just says to remove it (and lists a special tool that looks just like a regular spannar to me-anyone got one and it is it a "special tool"??). My Haynes manual lists two methods-one of which I really do not like (you decide which is better): method a: remove the sump and place a block of wood between the crankcase and the crankshaft, then remove the large nut. method b: remove the starter motor and wedge a screwdriver between the case and the teeth on the flywheel. I am currently leaning towards method a, but if any of you have had success with b I may give it a shot (I AM leary of breaking teeth, however, as I have absolutely no idea how tight the pulley nut is going to be). Obviously, I am open to suggestions. Winter being just around the corner. rdushin/Nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 08:49:41 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1993 08:35:40 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: nightmare the objectives of both methods is to keep the crankshaft from turning whilst you remove the nut. I have successfully removed the nut -- but the engine was on a stand. I don't remember anything special about the nut -- I think I just used a large socket. But what I did use was an air impact wrench. Air impact wrenches are excellent for removing such things. The impact is of short duration and you don't have to brace the mechanism from turning. Secondly, you don't need such a long cheater bar. I would probably utilize an air impact wrench to remove the broken studs after you remove the timing chain cover. Utilize some heat and a stud remover special tool Good luck to you on your project hasta, ray harder From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 09:59:24 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 07:48:09 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: intro and emissions questions It has a farily overdrive and the transmission seems to "pop" out of second a little too often My SI used to do that and it turned out that the detent on second gear was misadjusted. If your transmission is similar then there is a set of detent adjusters under the top access plate, the service manual has details on how to adjust them. -Pete- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 10:08:16 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 07:54:54 PDT From: bellas@gamma.tti.com (Bellas) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: nightmare 2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same. This would be my vote. The few times I have tried to save a step like this it has ended in more work and hassle, often I end up removing it anyway! method a: remove the sump and place a block of wood between the crankcase and the crankshaft, then remove the large nut. method b: remove the starter motor and wedge a screwdriver between the case and the teeth on the flywheel. I would first attempt it with an impact wrench (electric or air) and failing that I would go for (b). It has worked well for me and I hate removing the sump (especially if it isn't leaking). There my 2 cents, good luck. -Pete- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 11:51:54 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 09:31:22 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: nightmare rdushin, I'm sorry to read that Nigel is in such poor straights. I don't think you want to try to E-Z out the studs with the timing cover in place unless you like metal shavings inside Nigel'e engine :^0 If you have shipfitter's diesese this may be a dangerous job. I have a near terminal case of it. If it was me I would already be ordering a new timing chain and tensioner. I might even consider new gears. I mean they do wear & your there already. And if you are going to drop the pan, you need to check out the bearings and replace them if they are worn. Since the oil pump is right there, it would make sinse to check it for wear and to replace the 'O' ring on the pickup. But before I would pull the pan, I would check compression. I mean, as long as the pan is off and you pull the caps, your are most of the way to a ring job if you need one. & if you do that you can get hardened seats put into the head for unleaded petrol. My Rover burnt an exhaust valve and she ended up with a rebuilt engine, rebult transmission, two new drive shafts, the radiator bulkhead and front of th frame stripped down to bare metal and repainted, a new radiator, new speedo cable and new speedomoter. The MGBGT brunt an exhaust valve and got a valve job with hardened seats, rebuilt/rebushed SUs, new SMOG hoses, rebult brake calapers/cylinders, new brake pads/shoes, new petrol tank and new inside door panels. My TR3 was going to get a rebilt engine, new wiring harness and new interior. It is just now coming back together from a total frame off restoration. So you can just replace the studs and water pump, but wile you are at it and part way there anyway, you can just do a little more ;*) Oh try an impact wrench on the front nut. I just used one on the TR3's engine last weekend. Did'nt need anything to keep things from turning. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 12:31:40 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 10:13:28 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: nightmare > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 3 09:47:34 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: nightmare > Content-Length: 1928 > X-Lines: 40 > > > 2) remove the timing chain cover and do the same. YES! Radiator out too, so you have room to work. Drill straight! > > rdushin/Nigel Dear Nigel, Have your owner try this, it worked on Elephino: Put the correct size socket attached to a hefty flex handle on the bolt in question. Rotate the engine until the flex handle (or rachet, set on "undo") rests frimly on the frame on the left side. Some duct tape will help hold things in position. Put the beastie in reverse, let it roll down the driveway backwards a little ways, then pop the clutch. If you don't have a driveway with nice slope, another Rover and a tow strap will do the job. You can also go forward, but pick a forward gear. The idea is that the engine turns in it's normal direction, but the bolt can't turn, so gets "un-screwed". Good luck getting those nasty rusted bolts out. Regards, Bill G. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 12:35:19 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 10:18:08 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: bellas@gamma.tti.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: intro and emissions questions A transmission poping out of second could also be caused by the spring holding the ball into the detent. a weak spring would allow the transmission to pop out of second. You can try shiming it with a flat washer. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 13:22:18 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 18:05:35 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: my bad dreams...... Folks- thanks for the thoughtful insight. gonna be a problem getting air (much less electricity) into the "work area" (a field, dusted with manure) so I may have to forgo the air-driven impact. Ye 'ol hammer driven impact is certainly gonna be an early choice. I do like the "brace-it-and-roll" method, though, so if the impact doesn't work I'll try that next. also not so sure just how deep into this I am prepared to get...... Nige has decent compression (at last check they were all 125+, if I remember correctly) and runs smooth as silk, so I'm tempted to avoid the total overhaul-on-account-of-a-blown-waterpump situation. Sound advice, though, nonetheless......I'll be taking it one step at a time. thanks again, rdushin/Nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 13:38:33 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 14:22:48 EDT From: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Spontaneous denting? Okay, all of you experienced owners of aluminum-bodied beasts, can you tell me what's going on here? This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body panel, just below the window. Of course, I immediately assumed someone had hit the truck and run, so I made an accident report. At lunch time, I inspected the damage more closely, and I'm puzzled. For one thing, the part of the panel that is dented is high off the ground, maybe 40 inches. Also, the lower part of the panel protrudes farther, and is not damaged. What really baffles me is that, on very close inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle. In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The only indication that there might have been a collision is the dent. So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am only an unenlightened seeker. Any ideas? George g.mayhew @ieee.org From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 18:53:47 1993 Return-Path: To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: nightmare In-Reply-To: u10122's message of Sun, 03 Oct 93 09:35:25 -0800. <9310031635.AA00871@y1.sdsc.edu> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" When using an EZ out, I have found that I have a much higher rate of success in drilling with two modifications to the "usual directions": 1) Use left handed drill bits (and a reversible drill) to do the drilling. Sometimes, just the vibration and heat in the "right" direction will get the broken piece to come out. 2) MAKE A DRILL GUIDE! This can be something as simple as a piece of round stock that fits down the existing hole with a hole drilled in the center for the drill bit to a plate that bolts up in three existing bolts on the block and has a hole in the proper place. In any event, it is critical to get the hole for the EZout as straight and close to center as possible. Making the guide will take some extra time, but it's worth it in the end. Removing a mainshaft pulley nut can often be done by using the starter to apply the needed torque. Get the right sized socket and a long breaker bar. Attach to nut. Turn slowly in the normal direction of rotation until the bar contacts some piece of the car (like the fender). Put a piece of two by four at said point of contact. Turn the bar in reverse direction, and hit the starter. Scary in concept, but amazingly effective... From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 19:55:22 1993 Return-Path: From: Russell Burns Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? To: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 93 17:40:16 MDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310041822.AA05815@sven.lerc.nasa.gov>; from "George Mayhew" at Oct 4, 93 2:22 pm The only dent I have put in my RR is from jack knifing a trailer, and running into an elk. But if your a little on the tight side, carry $1000 deductable, and don't want your rates raised, the rear body panels unbolt except for 5 pop-rivets and then with a little persuasion with a plastic mallet you can pop out the dent. Mine was a pretty big dent so it took a lot of persuasion. Also from my hamering experience, the paint is quite mallable. Russ a Deranged Rover > > Okay, all of you experienced owners of aluminum-bodied > beasts, can you tell me what's going on here? > > This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same > one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for > 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body > panel, just below the window. Of course, I immediately > assumed someone had hit the truck and run, so I made an > accident report. > > At lunch time, I inspected the damage more closely, and > I'm puzzled. For one thing, the part of the panel that > is dented is high off the ground, maybe 40 inches. Also, > the lower part of the panel protrudes farther, and is not > damaged. What really baffles me is that, on very close > inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint > damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle. > In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The > only indication that there might have been a collision is the > dent. > > So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known > to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am > only an unenlightened seeker. > > Any ideas? > > George > g.mayhew @ieee.org > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 20:42:09 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 01:29:33 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: drill guide?? Chris Kantarjiev wrote: >MAKE A DRILL GUIDE! geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing chain cover).......but I may have metal bits to contend with (although there is nowhere for them to go but out the holes and onto the ground). I was actually contemplating the value of using the timing chain cover as a guide (with the bits of metal shavings in mind, however). The broken ends appear to be smooth and clean, and are (from my best estimation) a tad over an inch in (ie an inch into the cover, broken just at or close to the block). If I did this I might actually avoid having to remove the cover (and the pulley, and potentially the sump, starter, and do a total engine overhaul......)-but I'd have to make damned sure that I don't drill too deep or off center. Risky business. Then again, since I don't yet own any EZouts (good to have, though) and I do have a torch and vise grips, I may opt for the tear-him-down method. (I could always throw the cover back on and use it if needed). hmmmmm, rdushin/Nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 00:50:05 1993 Return-Path: To: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: drill guide?? In-Reply-To: u10122's message of Mon, 04 Oct 93 18:29:33 -0800. <9310050129.AA35845@y1.sdsc.edu> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing chain cover)....... The problem is that the hole you need to drill for the EZout is a smaller diameter than the hole that you broke the bolt off in... Yes, be careful of the depth. When you're off buying EZouts and left handed drill bits, buy some drill stops, too. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 09:42:21 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1993 11:27:18 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: The danger of Metal bits Just I thought with reference to experience, but perhaps magnetizing your drill and then using it for a few sec. then stop drill in the whole... pull it out and spin the drill to remove metal bits. Just an idea..I have never done, I have however broken off half a dozen eezee outs... :( then you have a tempered steel core in the broken stud. wow...now you have real problem. anyhow seems that you are going to take a different approach. I know for sime items that heating them...so the metal expands and then quenching then in cold water ..so they contract...separating from it's mating surfaces...works well. I can'nt see how you could quench the studs...except maybe a large bucket of h2o. be gentle...just think of your dentist working in you sensitive mouth. nigel will appriciate it...and it will contribute to an overall lesser degree of angst and frustration...way out in your feild far away from a hot cup of tea. David S. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 10:58:13 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 15:47:37 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: guide >The problem is that the hole you need to drill for the EZout is a smaller diameter than the hole that you broke the bolt off in... ahya....perhaps all I need is a hollow sleeve to fit within the hole (if the right length, it could also function as a stop). thanks again, rd/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 11:06:06 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 15:53:20 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: broken studs > >I know for sime items that heating them...so the metal expands and then quenching then in cold water ..so they contract...separating from it's mating surfaces...works well. I can'nt see how you could quench the studs...except maybe a large bucket of h2o. -dry ice chunks, perhaps?? (or maybe one of these little dewars I have floating about my lab at work-a baby bath of dry -ice/acetone might do the trick-so long as I keep the bath away from my heat source, or use a non-flammable solvent, instead) rd/nige From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 12:04:57 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 5 Oct 93 09:52:00 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, u10122@sdsc.edu Subject: Re: drill guide?? > From car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 4 18:37:34 1993 > To: lro@transfer.stratus.com > Subject: drill guide?? > Content-Length: 1045 > X-Lines: 25 > > > > >MAKE A DRILL GUIDE! > > geewhiz......I think I already have one of these (i.e. my timing > chain cover).......but I may have metal bits to contend with (although > there is nowhere for them to go but out the holes and onto the ground). > > hmmmmm, > rdushin/Nigel > Yeh, but, you don't want to drill the bolt out with a drill that's the same size as the hole in the timming chain cover. You still need a piece of tube that just fits the cover (outside diameter) and the drill bit of choice (id). Hobby stores that cater to the radio control folks, sell lengths of brass tube that come in diameters that are increments of 1/32", so each one fits inside the next. I have a 1" section of each size from 1/16" to 1/2" for just this purpose. I have gotten broken bolts out without an "easy-out" by drilling straight down the middle, several times with increasing sizes of bit, up to the root diameter of the thread. then the remains of the thread just pulls out and looks like a spring. Chase with the correct tap and it's as good as new. R, bg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 15:15:23 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: US Defender 90s Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1993 13:05:59 -0700 From: Ben Smith Here's something that my Dad emailed me and I thought the mailing list would be interested. ======================================== The latest issue of "Car and Driver" has a full page ad for a Defender 90 (sans top). Starting at $27,900 (canvas top optional) at a dealer near you. They also have a 4" blurb with pix on the Land Rover 90 in the section "Charting the Changes" sandwitched between the Lamborghini Diablo VT and the Lexus ES300. "The new Defender 90 takes over where the limited-production 110 model leaves off. Powered by the same 3.9-liter 182-hp V-8 of the 110, it has similar "Daktari" styling but it's 20- inches shorter in wheelbase and has only two doors and no metal roof. A canvas roof is available. The Defender 90 costs about $30,000." It looks like they really did it, and they even kept the price under the luxury tax limit. ========================================== -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:13:43 1993 Return-Path: To: Russell Burns Cc: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew), lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 04 Oct 93 17:40:16 MDT." <9310050040.AA25290@ash.cisco.com> Date: Tue, 05 Oct 93 18:00:37 -0400 From: William Caloccia > This morning, on returning to my Range Rover (the same > one I'm trying to sell) after leaving it parked for > 20 minutes, I discovered a dent in the right rear body > panel, just below the window. > ... What really baffles me is that, on very close > inspection of the dent in bright sunlight, there is no paint > damage, no scratches, no trace of color from another vehicle. ! > In fact, the dirt on the panel wasn't even smudged. The ! > only indication that there might have been a collision is the ! > dent. > So here is my question. Have aluminum body panels been known > to distorton on their own? I've never heard of it, but I am > only an unenlightened seeker. Well, it seems odd that it would dent >>in<< as the vehicle warmed up, but I guess if it could get enough temp differential in the panel it could buckle, seems quite odd. If the resulting dent is not creased, but merely hollow (concave), then the best bet is to go to the local computer room and borrow one on of the raised floor pull handles (you know, it has a 5" diameter suction cup on it, and a release valve), ``slap'' it on the center of the hollow and pull -- that should do the trick. -- Bill From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:37:06 1993 Return-Path: To: William Caloccia Cc: Russell Burns , gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew), lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? In-Reply-To: caloccia's message of Tue, 05 Oct 93 15:00:37 -0800. <9310052200.AA28926@tornadic.sw.stratus.com> X-Face: ;F1i:c.5WjM"fi5"DpJ_)/9l,$3ij12_"J7catfSLlS3pI8x~_'d-\{;OzSY+n,r/tf )-j:)z&8exw9:)^!TcW]Sq; From: "Chris Kent Kantarjiev" An old bodywork trick that I was taught it to let the panel get heated by the sun and then run an ice cube over it. Often the high temperature differential will pop the panel right out. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 17:43:14 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 05 Oct 1993 19:28:36 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: RE:spontaneous denting Could it be that your r.r was hit from behind at angle with suffient force as tobuckle your panel. ie in fact it was not dented but rather buckled from compression? ds From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 5 23:23:15 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 00:08:21 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Newer LRs I've only seen one 'live' and photo details have been skimpy so to the net with my question: What to recent LRs have for suspension and lower drivetrain? It's truly independent all around now, correct? Struts or springs and shocks? Geometry? Half axles with U- or CV-joints? Torque-splitting center differential or rigidly connected? I can actually imagine the pneumatic ride-height adjusters being combined with swivel pins up front.... :-) monty From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 04:00:04 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Newer LRs To: brandenberg@gauss.enet.dec.com (I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 9:50:13 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310060402.AA10129@easynet.crl.dec.com>; from "I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on" at Oct 6, 93 12:08 am Monty, The 90/110 series Land Rovers have,basically,the Range Rover suspension and drivetrain.NOT independant suspension,but coil springs,centre diff etc.CV joints have replaced the old universal,or Hooke,joints in the front axle.Obviously,with the centre diff 4WD is permanent. Land Rover *did* once try independant suspension(on a leaf sprung)but the problem with that is that the diff(s) is/are bolted to the chassis, and therefore more prone to grounding than with the "beam" axle,and the experiment was not continued. Current engines are the trusty V8,or the equally trusty,but much newer, Tdi diesel 2.5L.This is a new Land Rover designed Turbocharged,intercooled diesel,direct injection,using the Bosch three spring injection system,which is said to make it a much quieter engine.Certainly the ones I have heard are definitely not noisy units,even on tickover,although they are obviously noisier than the V8,but Land Rover say that 70% of production is,in fact, diesel powered,possibly due to the economy factor. Inside,the "Defender" range,(stil Land Rovers to most of us)has lost its centre seat:-( and has a "cubby box" instead,with the outer seats moved inwards about an inch to give more elbow room,and is trimmed with "County Clorth" (in upper crust English)cloth to you and me.God help dog owners. Body styles are much as they always were.The main difference in appearance is the radiator grille which is flush with the wing fronts to provide room for the V8,initially,one piece windshield,and one piece doors with wind down windows.These doors,if you can afford them,will fit S11,S11A,and S111 models, provided that you use the current hinges and door striker plate on your old machine.Otherwise,you can get the usual truck cab,blind hardtop etc,but NOT the full softtop,except on the new limted edition yuppy version. Off road performance is said to be much better than with the leaf sprung versions,due to the increased suspension travel.The downside is that rebushing the suspension is *much* more expensive,and is not really a DIY prospect. Despite this,I want one:-) Cheers Mike Rooth PS (But I want to keep my old 11A as well) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 09:02:46 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 6 Oct 93 09:49:31 EDT From: gmayhew@sven.lerc.nasa.gov (George Mayhew) To: burns@cisco.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: Spontaneous denting? Cc: gmayhew@tornadic.sw.stratus.com, lro@transfer.stratus.com > Well, it seems odd that it would dent >>in<< as the vehicle warmed up, > but I guess if it could get enough temp differential in the panel it > could buckle, seems quite odd. If the resulting dent is not creased, > but merely hollow (concave), then the best bet is to go to the local > computer room and borrow one on of the raised floor pull handles (you know, > it has a 5" diameter suction cup on it, and a release valve), ``slap'' it > on the center of the hollow and pull -- that should do the trick. > > -- Bill > It's a rear panel--no heat source nearby. The likely cause is vandalism, I guess. I can't figure why the dirt wasn't smudged. I think I can get to the inside of the panel where it's dented by removing the spare tire from the cargo area. There will be less chance of damaging the paint if I push from the inside. I'm definitely not handy at bodywork, so I'll approach it gingerly. Any pointers will be appreciated. George From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 6 21:43:47 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 06 Oct 1993 18:09:25 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: Aluminium frame? I talked to a 1962 series IIa owner today in a near by town, he was as I spoke packing for England. If all goes well he hopes to ship a container brack to Nova Scotia containing one LR and one new frame (made of aluminium!) this idea is new to me. He told me to be in touch and he could by a used one for $800 can. and include it in his shippment. Does anybody know about alumium frames, are they weaker? less durable? Any Knowlegde of this ? David S. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 7 03:37:49 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Aluminium frame? To: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca (DAVID SPENCER) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 9:28:51 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <009739FC.64313F80.29789@esseX.stfx.ca>; from "DAVID SPENCER" at Oct 6, 93 6:09 pm David, I have never ever seen advertised,heard of,seen in use,or anything else,an aluminium chassis.New chassis are available black painted or galvanised,but steel *not* alloy.So I dont believe it.Had such a chassis been available,it's a pound to a penny that it would have been advertised in the Land Rover Owner magazine.Unless I'm going daft in my old age (not beyond the bounds of possibility)I would have seen it,and I havent. Considering the cost of producing such an item to equal the strength of a steel chassis,the specialised welding required in manufacture, *and* the possible handling characteristics of a vehicle so equipped (a *true* lightweight?),it seems very unlikely. In the remote event of such a thing existing,I still wouldnt trust it.However it *would* be interesting to know where this bloke is going to get it from.Any idea? Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 7 10:02:11 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Sold it ! To: land-rover-owner@transfer.stratus.com (landy list) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 93 15:46:41 BST Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Hi Folks, I sold the landy! Had to really; this bloke waved 125 20quid notes at me and I bit his arm off (so to speak). Now I'm in the market for a quite old 2 door Rangey. What do our Rangey owners think of them, any buying tips over and above the usual? Best Regards, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 01:56:31 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Aluminium frame? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1993 23:25:44 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada DAVID SPENCER writes: > Does anybody know about alumium frames, are they weaker? less durable? > Any Knowlegde of this ? I have never heard of such a thing. When one steps back and thinks about it, it doesn't really make that much sense. An aluminium frame, to have the same strength as a stell one is going to have to be much thicker. To weld such a thing is not going to be as simple as a steel frame, and when one either galvanises a steel frame, or adds a lot of paint/oil/undercoating, will be much cheaper than the aluminium equivalent when delivered. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 02:08:38 1993 Return-Path: >From: Benjamin Smith To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: front end looks funny Reply-To: ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1993 00:02:20 -0700 From: Ben Smith A few weeks ago I was off roading in the Salton Sea area. While off the track, going about 20 mph I hit a small wash with enough force to blow a thumb sized hole out the sidewall of my right front tire. The front end dropped into the ditch and bounced out. The Ditch was about 3 feet across and 18 inches deep (the front bumper almost ground out on the other side!) Anyway after getting hom later on, I looked at the front end and it looks funny. The tires look like this /----\ witht he right side looking more flaired out than the left. So I jacked up the front end. The balls are firmly attached to the axle case. There is no wiggle when I grabbed the tire by the top and bottom and tried to see if there is any play. So my question is am I seeing things, or is something wrong? The Haynes manuel says that the tires should be inclined 3 degrees inwards, but my mind says what I see is more than 3 degrees. Could I have bent the axle case? -Benjamin Smith ranger@ugcs.caltech.edu 1972 Land Rover Series III 88 From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 06:34:02 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Humvees To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:21:56 BST I notice that a firm in this country is offering spruced up Humvees for sale.The same firm also offers ditto Land Rovers.Whilst I have seen film foootage of these strange vehicles(Humvees,not Land Rovers), particularly during the Gulf War,I have no knowledge of what they actually *are*,so to speak.On the face of it,they look much too big to replace a Jeep,or even to compete with Land Rovers in the field. Who makes them,what engine do they use,what suspension(looks suspiciously like fully independent to me),are they any *good*? I might add I wouldnt dream of buying one on looks alone.Anyone know any technical details?Always a good idea to keep up with the opposition:-) Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 10:37:48 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: So what's new? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:25:51 BST Those of you across the pond will know by now that the softtop Ninety which is to be merketed in the States has a side hinging tailgate. On my way in to work after lunch today,I fell in behind a very neat '62 softtop,which,instead of the regular bottom hinged tailgate,featured a rear "Safari" door which had had the top half removed.The owner had used two bottom hinges to hang it with.Made a very nice job.Is nothing new? Rgds Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:12:29 1993 Return-Path: Date: 08 Oct 1993 09:00:41 -0700 From: Paul Anderson To: In-Reply-To: "Mail dated 93/10/08 13:06:10 UT from (M.J.ROOTH) Mike Rooth" Subject: Re: Humvees X-Post: RSFLAGS Mike Rooth writes: >I notice that a firm in this country is offering spruced up Humvees >for sale.The same firm also offers ditto Land Rovers.Whilst I have >seen film foootage of these strange vehicles(Humvees,not Land Rovers), >particularly during the Gulf War,I have no knowledge of what they >actually *are*,so to speak.On the face of it,they look much too big >to replace a Jeep,or even to compete with Land Rovers in the field. >Who makes them,what engine do they use,what suspension(looks suspiciously >like fully independent to me),are they any *good*? >I might add I wouldnt dream of buying one on looks alone.Anyone know any >technical details?Always a good idea to keep up with the opposition:-) The civilian version of the HUMVEE is called the Hummer. These vehicles are made by AM General of South Bend, IN. The Hummer has a 6.2L V-8 diesel engine made made by General Motors. It delivers full-time power to all four wheels, which are independently suspended. The body is aluminum except for the hood that is fiberglass. The ground clearance is 16", but the vehicle is 7' wide. I have driven one. It is the only vehicle that I would put up against my Range Rover;-) The military life expectancy of the HUMVEE is 12 years. The only hesitation is that its price ranges from $38K to $60K. AM General used to send out a video tape and information. Their number is 1-800-3-HUMVEE. *============================================================================* * * __________ * * Paul Anderson * / \___ Exceptional Vehicles * * ACUS05@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM * :__Range_Rover__: are for * * * (_) (_) Exceptional People| * *============================================================================* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:49:40 1993 Return-Path: From: Dan Chayes Subject: Re: Humvees To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:37:00 EDT In-Reply-To: <"ACUS05 93/10/08 16:00:41.740389"@WACCVM.CORP.MOT.COM>; from "Paul Anderson" at Oct 08, 93 9:00 am Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] > > Stuff about humvees deleted - On the north shore of hawaii they are called crabs by the locals, since that is kind of what they look like going down the road. The locals are also always pulling them out of the ditches at some of the army training grounds that the locals use for enduro racing on weekends. Pretty funny seeing a humvee being pulled out by some local in a toyota. of course it could be the well trained army drivers :-) Cheers Dan, '74 88" SIII with non-functioning clutch master cyl. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daniel A. Chayes dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil Naval Research Lab, Code 7420 (202) 767-2024 (voice) Washington D.C. 20375-5320 (202) 767-0167 (fax) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 11:59:17 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 12:48:06 EDT From: I feel a Jackson Pollock coming on To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Apparently-To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Humvees I was curious about these so I purchased the service manual from AM General. I don't have it in front of me but the basics are as follows: 6.2L Diesel V8 delivering about 150 HP peak, 250 or so ft-lbs torque. Suspension is independent, coil springs. Hubs are geared allowing drive input to be higher than the hub axis for greater ground clearance. Braking is inboard on at least one and possibly both axles. I believe that the standard transmission is a 3 speed automatic with a 2-speed transfer box. For civilian sales, the body panels are beefed up to US spec. A central tire inflation system is available. And, like LRs, comes in a number of body styles. I've heard that other engines are\ available such as a gasoline 454 which I believe Arnold has in (one) of his. Gov't price is under $30K but after NHSB, DOT, and EPA certs, the civilian goes up quite a bit. Personally, I think of it as a 21st century (and American) version of the LandRover. It's big, it's fast (for the type), and seems to be able to go over most anything. Yes, I would like one... m From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 16:14:37 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 20:53:46 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: front end fun Ben- I suspect you may have done in your stub axle.....I did that once after grazing a large stone-it didn't move but my stub axle did. I suppose a stub axle will go before you bend an axle case. Another possiblility is that you've damaged your cone and/or your bearing (both within the swivel pin housings)-if that were the case you'd probably notice some stiffness in your steering. rdushin/nigel (who used to tramp about in the salton sea-i am sure he misses it). From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 8 18:00:28 1993 Return-Path: Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 16:48:15 MDT From: rhcaldw@nma.mnet.uswest.com ( ROY CALDWELL ) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Hummers I drove the Hummers in the Gulf. They are very impressive to say the least. And they are big. The common wisdom in the army is that if one gets stuck it is driver error. The problem I see with the thing is that it is BIG. And the tires are so big it can not carry a spare. It also is not very operator-friendly for outback repairs. With the trany and drive line stuck up under it there is only room for four passengers and a small rear cargo area. During the war it was common with the 3rd Cav Regiment to see only two in one with the whole backend filled with what was needed. Like sleeping bags, rucks, food and stuff. The army uses a hard-top version for the MPs and, I must admit, a very nice ambulance version for the medics. But the normal version is hardtop which means no roof racks. I went up some steep rock escarpments with one and was very pleased with it's ability to climb. I have a photo of a Hummer with the grill badge of a Merceds truck on it. But I guess the ultimate experience was a night ride in a Hummer, as a passenger, using only night vision goggels(NVG) and the slugger (global positioning device). The navigator was watching the slugger display and telling the driver simply go right or left. Guy was driving at about 30 to 35 across the desert with no moon, no lights and just the NVG. It took us about 45 minutes to get to the camp but we drove right up to the perimeter guard just like it was daylight. The Brits have hardwired sluggers in many of their mil-Rovers. Anyway that's what I know about the things. They are nice and do hold-up, but I will keep my Series IIA. Roy From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 9 15:28:05 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1993 17:14:04 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: evolution Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA It has tail lenses which are like those of more senior relative ie. Nigel and co. but also has windows in the rear instead of closed in sheet metal. The entire body of this lr is in perfect condition. It's almost a shame to "use" it. All seem to be in good running order, except the frame is broken in two just behind the transfer case cross member, so it went cheap. It has been idle for 2 years...I hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this long...and recover? The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers. I wonder if they stopped in 1960? In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine block? I must get away frome this terminal and go back out side... David S. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 9 18:08:29 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 9 Oct 93 22:58:37 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: (r)evolution David- Many congrads on the new purchase. I, too, have wondered just when the threaded vent controls were dropped......perhaps those out there with '60-'64 models can shed some light on this. Glad to hear about the rounded lenses (kinda cute, no?? I like the aerodynamic spoilers on them!)-but beware, they are more difficult to replace than the later "coned" versions (and I am told the light assembly is NLA)...thus, if you plan on following in dixon's treads you might consider replacing them with more available ones. I don't think a II water pump fits a IIA. The guts are the same-so they can be easily rebuilt using readily available bits. BTW-anyone out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). happy trails, rd/nige (who will be sittin it out for awhile-impending deadlines...erah-post- pending deadlines are forcing me to do an 8-day workweek for the coming weeks). From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sat Oct 9 21:53:21 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sat, 09 Oct 1993 23:44:17 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: RE:No time for fun With regards to working and having time to spend with rovers, my recent purchase is bitter sweet. All I can do for now is oil everything and put it in the barn, may I should mop out the float bowl to,if it going to sit all winter? DS. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 00:26:45 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: evolution From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 1993 22:48:23 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada DAVID SPENCER writes: > Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA :-) Excellent! > hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run > on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this > long...and recover? Yes, and yes. The rings shouldn't have caused that nuch problem with the bores. > In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's > interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine > block? To my knowledge, they are not interchangeable. The heads are slightly different in the front. I'll check to make sure... Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 12:00:00 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: (r)evolution From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 11:07:57 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > If you plan on following in dixon's treads you might consider replacing > them with more available ones. Only eight this year, two of which were the aerodynamic version. All will be the pointy types from now on. Makes it easier to spear the tree I guess. My Rover now has nice new Ontario plates on it, and even made it through a road trip to Kingston and back yesterday. 'Twas a 200 mile round trip, went through 4 litres of oil, ten gallons of gasoline (Hmmm, the distance must be wrong. 20/mpg? No way...), and one tire that I blew in Kingston. Granted I had a ton of spare parts and tools, but did I remember the lug wrench? Of course not. A quick trip to Canadian tire and the purchase of a 15/16 socket solved that problem. Got to pick up that overdrive. Between 42 and 46 mph makes for one long trip. The cross winds made the 109 steer like a Zepplin, and it didn't matter if I was on the pavement or soft shoulder letting thousands of cars pass. Steering was the same in both places (pretty good actually) > I don't think a II water pump fits a IIA. The guts are the same-so > they can be easily rebuilt using readily available bits. BTW-anyone > out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can > you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). Have not found the Merseyside catalogue yet, but the RN catalogue does not denote any water pumps pre-Series IIA. When I did it up, I'll check. I have Merseyside sending me a complete print-out of their complete stock, or available parts, so I will probably have to wait until then. Rgds, Dixon BTW, Went down to Kingston to meet my mother and pick up a pair of book shelves she brought up from Toronto. Considering that she has been badgering me for years to "grow up" and scrap all of my cars (TR-7's, Mini's, Cortina) and get something modern and nice, she thought the Land Rover was "a scream", took lots of photos of it. I finally found a vehicle that she likes... :-) (Didn't tell her I had picked up an 88 though, or the condition to justify the $25 spent to purchase it...) > (who will be sittin it out for awhile-impending deadlines...erah-post- > pending deadlines are forcing me to do an 8-day workweek for the coming > weeks). -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 12:17:54 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: RE:No time for fun From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1993 10:57:09 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada DAVID SPENCER writes: > With regards to working and having time to spend with rovers, my recent > purchase is bitter sweet. All I can do for now is oil everything and put > it in the barn, may I should mop out the float bowl to,if it going to > sit all winter? DS. Well, if you are really keen you would put it in the barn, and put it up on blocks so the suspension can hang. Otherwise, I wouldn't clean out the float bowl as I would suggest that you go out there once a month and run it for a little while to keep everything lubricated. BTW, your address denotes you residing at St. FX. You are not going to get the little beast on the road? It would be quite the status symbol with the students there... :-) (I went to Bishop's and am somewhat familiar with your locale) What are you taking/teaching that is going to preclude work on the important things/toys in life? You new aluminium friend, I am sure, would just love some attention and tlc. Rgds, Dixon (From the hot air capital of Canada, and looking forward to seeing the decendent of one of St. Fx's notorious alumni blown away in the upcoming federal election.) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Sun Oct 10 15:24:39 1993 Return-Path: Date: Sun, 10 Oct 93 20:11:44 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: consumption >'Twas a 200 mile round trip, went through 4 litres of oil, ten gallons of gasoline (Hmmm, the distance must be wrong. 20/mpg? No way...)- but 50 mpl sounds about right! :-) rd/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 04:27:04 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: consumption From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 02:09:04 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > but 50 mpl sounds about right! I think it is time to start adding 10w40 or something similar. The temperature is about -9c right now, was about 2c this morning. It took me two hours to get the Rover to start. The 20w50 acted like glue and drained my battery several times trying to get it to fire. Granted a new battery would probably be a good idea, but it was a bit much. Have to give RN a call Tuesday and see what they have in the line of block heaters for the 2.25l engine. Since it can hit -40c here, it might be a good idea. So might a second battery... Rgds, Dixon BTW, it snowed lightly here today... :-( (Far to early, though I am looking forward to ploughing through feet of the stuff in.) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 08:38:08 1993 Return-Path: From: Steve Methley Subject: Re: So what's new? To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk (Mike Rooth) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 14:22:55 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310081525.AA17949@hpc.lut.ac.uk>; from "Mike Rooth" at Oct 8, 93 4:25 pm Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] Mike said; > On my way in to work after lunch today,I fell in behind a very neat > '62 softtop,which,instead of the regular bottom hinged tailgate,featured > a rear "Safari" door which had had the top half removed.The owner had > used two bottom hinges to hang it with.Made a very nice job. > Is nothing new? No, I had this on my old Lightweight (non-standard). Good to hang the spare on. Best Regards, Steve. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 11:15:23 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:00:42 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: Re: evolution while into purchasing Land Rovers, I saw two for sale and one being parted out on Sunday. In case anyone is in the market here are the details: 1966 109 Land Rover military (two door and long hard top). 4 cyl, over drive new carb, new tyres. The car looks very solid and clean There is no rust on it. Michael Pennington owns it. He is asking $10,000 (It is a very clean, nice car). I believe he is in the Sonoma California area. 510-256-7727 home, 415-455-8917 work. Jim Howat is storing a light gray 109 two door with soft top that I believe is for sale for $4K. Drive train seems solid except compression is low in one cylinder. Its a nice looking basic LR. It is located in Concord CA. Contact Jims shop answering machine at 510-686-2255. Jim is also parting out an 88. If anyone wants to tow away an 88 minus front axle, engine and gear box I suspect you can do so very cheaply. As I recall the frame looks good and the body panels are sound. Oh The owner of the military 109 is also selling 1970 Jag XJ6, with rebuilt engine, great interior and no rust for $5000, and a 1964 Austin Cooper S MKI Station Wagon that has two car show wins. He wants $14K for that one. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 11:50:40 1993 Return-Path: Date: Mon, 11 Oct 93 09:34:15 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: M.J.Rooth@lut.ac.uk, sgm@hplb.hpl.hp.com Subject: Re: So what's new? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Mike, I was looking at some Land Rovers this weekend on my way home from Triumphfest. The recessed opening for the door handle on rear door is higher than the topless sides of a Land Rover. If one were to cut a standard series II or later door down and add a second hinge, it would fit about4 or 5 inches higher than the surrounding body unless someone did some major bodywork. I also saw a series I longbed that had a rear door fitted. The series I rear door had a removable top half and both hinges attached to the body. I have no idea if the seires I rear door fits onto a series II, but I suspect not. TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 13:21:50 1993 Return-Path: To: mlist-lro@nntp-server.caltech.edu From: rsrose@juliet.caltech.edu (Randy Rose 818-395-3840) Newsgroups: mlist.lro Subject: Re: evolution and Rochester Carbs Date: 11 Oct 1993 11:06 PDT Organization: California Institute of Technology News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41x4 In article <00973C50.27C23BC0.5782@esseX.stfx.ca>, DAVID SPENCER writes... >Friday After noon was a very good to me. I purchased a 1964 series IIA >It has tail lenses which are like those of more senior relative >ie. Nigel and co. but also has windows in the rear instead of closed >in sheet metal. The entire body of this lr is in perfect condition. >It's almost a shame to "use" it. All seem to be in good running >order, except the frame is broken in two just behind the transfer case >cross member, so it went cheap. It has been idle for 2 years...I >hoped that the blue smoke would clear up after an oil change and a run >on the highway....will an engine smoke alot after sitting for this >long...and recover? Good find! Dixon writes of replacing the light assemblies. If I recall, one of these lenses had a clear inset to illuminate the registration plate. If you replace the lamp, you may need to add a seperate light for the plate. >The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers. >I wonder if they stopped in 1960? Yes, these vent controls were short lived. They're great for subtle control to the vents, but if someone passes you on a dusty road, they're impossible to close in time, unlike the later quadrant controls or those on the Series I. >In the evolution of things are the water pumps on Series II and IIA's >interchangeable? is there enough room between the rad and the engine >block? Sorry, the Series II pump has a different casting, although (as I think Dixon also said), they do take the same rebuild kit. The Series IIA front engine cover puts the water pump higher, which will hit the Series II cylinder head, so you can't change front covers ( to get the later water pump) unless you also change to a IIA head. >I must get away frome this terminal and go back out side... >David S. *** BAck in September, you asked about details on Rochester carbs. Did you get much response; I'm curious what you found out. I've used them for years on several Rovers. They're the best carb I found--run well, easily re-jetted, and simple. When I could buy them new, the part no. was Delco short number 21-300. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to mean much to rebuilders. I don't think the tag on my carb is right, I had to trade the bowl for the right one. I do know the right one has: cable choke, smallest venturi, and smallest throttle body for a single barrel model. If you want, I can take the top off and send you the part no.'s that are stamped on the air horn and the float chamber body. I don't think there is a # on the throttle body. Use a #48 jet around sea level. They usually come with a #52, which is too rich. Regards, Randy Rose Pasadena, California (818)395-3840 rsrose@iago.caltech.edu California Institute of Technology From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Mon Oct 11 23:23:18 1993 Return-Path: <@wicat.COM:pension!grettir@wicat.COM> From: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) Subject: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1993 21:53:06 -0600 (MDT) Content-Type: text Content-Length: 177 What is the general consensus on freewheeling hubs on a Rover? Is it worth the $195US (RN) to reduce the wear and tear on the front axle, etc? Are there any other benefits? From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 03:41:09 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? To: grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 9:31:03 BST Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: ; from "Grettir Asmundarson" at Oct 11, 93 9:53 pm Definitely.I havent got them,and they are well at the top of my "improvement"list.(The other list is "replacement",which takes precedence).I ran for a short while without the front prop shaft because a U.J had gone noisy,and the difference was beyond belief.Ran much more smoothly,fuel consumption imroved etc. When you consider I was still,even then,pushing the front diff round,it speaks for itself.Tyre wear is also said to be reduced as well.Go for it. Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 08:56:03 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark Moore Subject: Air vent styles To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Lan Rover Owners) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 7:32:22 MDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > >>The vent control are not threaded but rather the standard levers. >>I wonder if they stopped in 1960? > >Yes, these vent controls were short lived. They're great for subtle >control to the vents, but if someone passes you on a dusty road, they're >impossible to close in time, unlike the later quadrant controls or those >on the Series I. > Actually, the late Series II production dipped into 1961. The vent controls on the '61 109 are still the screw type. -- Mark --0- -------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Moore moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA/ERL/FSL/FD Systems Administrator R/E/FS2 325 Broadway Boulder, CO 80303 USA From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 09:00:10 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 08:27:48 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: cool morning problems resolved... cd ~/maillogs It was a cool morning here in Missouri and Lulu was ready for her daily drive. I complained a little at her but in the end was pondering whose problem was it. I was griping about having to wipe the dew from both the outside AND INSIDE of all the windows. Don't have to do that with a civilized car that sleeps in a garage. (Lulu can't set in the driveway or garage for long periods cause she has this problem of holding it in). But when I got to work and looked back, I noticed how clean she looked and thought -- was that a design point by Solihull? In wiping the dew from the windows, I had also spruced up the car by wiping off a couple of weeks of road dust... (the fact that I had left the sliders open for 3 days didn't cloud my mind -- Japanese cars have better manners, I'd said). And I was mumbling about the "sticky steering wheel in humid wheather problem", too. I had to drive all the way to work utilizing one of those red rags that seem to be standard equipment on older land rovers (but then again, my 87 RR has them so maybe they come from the factory). The walk from the parking lot to the office was a bit brisk, so maybe I was at fault for not bringing my old beat up driving gloves. And the Temperature Control switch is so hard to open and close that I had to pull hard to get that blast of heat from the old Kodiak heater. But the contrast between the cool morning air and the blast of heat did make me pause about how beautiful a morning it was. (Would I have noticed it if the automatic temperature control of an upscale heater had done the hard work for me). Oh, well -- just some ideas that went thru my head on the way to work this morning. I think I will stick with Lulu for awhile longer. And maybe I could make it up a little by looking after a few of her long postponed ailments... ...oh yes, I don't have a very sophisticated mailing package so I will try to remember to append pertinent information manually. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 09:20:05 1993 Return-Path: From: Mark Moore Subject: winter oils To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Lan Rover Owners) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 8:02:43 MDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85] > >u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > >> but 50 mpl sounds about right! > > I think it is time to start adding 10w40 or something similar. The > temperature is about -9c right now, was about 2c this morning. It > took me two hours to get the Rover to start. The 20w50 acted like > glue and drained my battery several times trying to get it to fire. > Granted a new battery would probably be a good idea, but it was a > bit much. Have to give RN a call Tuesday and see what they have in > the line of block heaters for the 2.25l engine. Since it can hit > -40c here, it might be a good idea. So might a second battery... You might also try switching to a synthetic oil. I've found them to be a quite bit better at retaining viscosity at low temperatures. -- Mark --0- -------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Moore moore@fsl.noaa.gov NOAA/ERL/FSL/FD Systems Administrator R/E/FS2 325 Broadway Boulder, CO 80303 USA From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 19:26:55 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 20:53:21 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: RE:vent controls Woww..seems that we can nearly isolate a 6 month period during which they retooled from threaded vents to levers. I love the athetics of the threaded controls but it is point well taken about meeting folks on a duty road etc. and having only a second to get the thing closed. so...sometime late in 1961 they switched?, with some period of over lap. pointless pursiut perhaps but interesting......ds From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 19:35:02 1993 Return-Path: Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 21:06:14 AST From: DAVID SPENCER To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Cc: x92nca@essex.stfx.ca Subject: RE:bizare typo's Geeeee...I dunno about most folks, but as a dylexic producing them typo's begin to be less entertaining as the years go by.... sorry..." duty road" should read "dusty road" on that last post RE: vent controls....oops what's the expression? Dyslexic's of the world untie! ds. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:23:21 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: So what's new? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:59:57 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada writes: TeriAnn, Merseyside order is here and in the living room and across the backyard. Now I wnt all of the goodies :-) Springs, swivel balls, and over drive, basically engough parts to completely rebuild an 88 and 109, or partialy rebuild a few 88's. Giving it all up will be tough... Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:23:44 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 16:55:50 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada grettir@pension.provo.ut.us (Grettir Asmundarson) writes: > What is the general consensus on freewheeling hubs on a Rover? Is it > worth the $195US (RN) to reduce the wear and tear on the front axle, etc? > Are there any other benefits? IMHO, freewheeling hubs are great. However, I would locate a pair on a dead Land Rover and use those before I shelled out US$390+ for the hubs. They should be available used. Most Land Rovers up here use them, in fact it is rare to see one without them. Other benefits? A quieter ride, better gas mileage. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Tue Oct 12 22:26:02 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: (r)evolution From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1993 17:26:20 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can > you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). Merseyside has both early and later 2.25l water pumps listed. No mention of the Series II. Rgds, BTW, the tail light assemblies supplied are the flat top versions with the little ears, though slightly different from the originals. -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 13:09:35 1993 Return-Path: From: Dan Chayes Subject: ski racks ? To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 13:49:40 EDT Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25] Hello - Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their Land Rover. I called Thule's information and there was some confussion on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420 was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380. Thanks in advance. Dan, 74, 88" Series III w/ working clutch, rebuilt slave & master cyl. dan@hp8c.nrl.navy.mil From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 14:20:42 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: ski racks ? To: Dan Chayes Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310131750.AA18094@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 Oct 1993, Dan Chayes wrote: > Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? > In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their > Land Rover. > > I called Thule's information and there was some confussion > on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They > said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance > between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420 > was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380. Dan: I can give you some suggestions for the roof rack it sounds as though you might need. I kayak a lot and haul my and my friends boats around on the roofs of my cars. The racks I use are both made by a US company(If you don't live in North America it'll be hard to get these) The company's name is Yakima and they make arguable the best racks in the world. (If you don't live in the US it'll be a drag to have to buy these on patriotic principles alone) Yakima produces a rack with an ease of fit you won't experience with Thule. I know i've owned a Thule rack and hated it. The Thule rack is (in my opinion) weak, fits poorly, damages your vehicles finish, difficult to put on (i.e. sometime over five minutes, very poor). Yakima's address in the US is: Yakima, P.O. Box 4899, Arcata, California, 95521, USA Yakima's address in Canada is: Yakima c/o UTC Ltd, 40 Englehard Drive, Aurora, Ont, L4G 3H5 To fit on either a Landy or Range Rover you'll need the "1A Tower Rack" with a probably pipe length of at least 58"(or 66" or the giant 78") for the skis there are many options as you will see. *Buy these racks!* I'm not a spokesman for the company, but beleiving is using and i've used these a lot, and they, frankly, are a damn sight better than Thule and worth the investment.(If you can afford to ski you can probably afford these racks) If you have any questions please don't hestitate to contact me... --Jeff "The Paddler" Kilbreath From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 15:20:36 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT) From: The Paddler Subject: Re: ski racks ? To: Dan Chayes Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com In-Reply-To: <9310131750.AA18094@transfer.stratus.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 13 Oct 1993, Dan Chayes wrote: > Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? > In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their > Land Rover. > > I called Thule's information and there was some confussion > on their part as to which of their models fit on a hardtop. They > said the "high foot" 380 would fit but there would not be much clearance > between the bottom of the rack and the top of the roof. The model 420 > was guaranteed to fit, but lists for $278 vs. $140 for the model 380. Dan: I can give you some suggestions for the roof rack it sounds as though you might need. I kayak a lot and haul my and my friends boats around on the roofs of my cars. The racks I use are both made by a US company(If you don't live in North America it'll be hard to get these) The company's name is Yakima and they make arguable the best racks in the world. (If you don't live in the US it'll be a drag to have to buy these on patriotic principles alone) Yakima produces a rack with an ease of fit you won't experience with Thule. I know i've owned a Thule rack and hated it. The Thule rack is (in my opinion) weak, fits poorly, damages your vehicles finish, difficult to put on (i.e. sometime over five minutes, very poor). Yakima's address in the US is: Yakima, P.O. Box 4899, Arcata, California, 95521, USA Yakima's address in Canada is: Yakima c/o UTC Ltd, 40 Englehard Drive, Aurora, Ont, L4G 3H5 To fit on either a Landy or Range Rover you'll need the "1A Tower Rack" with a probably pipe length of at least 58"(or 66" or the giant 78") for the skis there are many options as you will see. *Buy these racks!* I'm not a spokesman for the company, but beleiving is using and i've used these a lot, and they, frankly, are a damn sight better than Thule and worth the investment.(If you can afford to ski you can probably afford these racks) If you have any questions please don't hestitate to contact me... --Jeff "The Paddler" Kilbreath From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 17:02:41 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 21:49:00 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: thanks Dixon wrote: >> out there know if you can get new series II water pumps?? (dixon-can > you check the Merseyside catalog for me??). Merseyside has both early and later 2.25l water pumps listed. No mention of the Series II. Rgds, BTW, the tail light assemblies supplied are the flat top versions with the little ears, though slightly different from the originals. Thanks for checkin' on the pump-I figured the Merseyside catalogue had the best shot of listing one (and I don't have one but probably should). As for the tail light ass'y's.....I have a faxed copy of a listing RN sent me with umpteen diffent lenses listed that were all supposedly used, at one time or another, on LR's. These may well be one of those, but as you suggest they don't appear to be the ones on Nigel. I will consult that fax copy (if and when I find it) to see if there's another lens that fits this description. BTW-how much is it?? My nearest RN catalogue (three years old-gotaa newer one with updated prices at home) lists the coned ones for about $80. Thanks again, rdushin/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 17:11:35 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 93 21:58:49 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: gheeze Bud- actually caught a little bit o' soul train last week and noticed that the hip dude was not there-they had some young chump who lacked all the soul and character of that guy. just not gonna be the same without him...... also got wet as hell last night. had to stick it out at lab, all soaked, thighs to toe, and head as well (lost my umbrella and was wearing my barbour- works great over all the covered areas...........). ended up freezeing my buns off at work until i could no longer take it. STILL haven't started writing yet. finished getting a collection of references together but have WAY too many (about 350). having to weed them out on the basis of titles and abstracts (I only have about half of them with abstracts) alone is not easy......i can eliminate some but not all. and my 2 week extension is almost up! gonna be doing the full weekend of work scene-not sure you wanna join me. rd From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 21:34:44 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:19:33 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? (I don't have a fancy mail package, so I can't include the text under discussion, but...) I just bought from Rover's North this week a pair of Warn hubs. ^[The price was $195 US for a PAIR. I have high hopes that these will reduce roadnoise and wear for my SIIa 88 AND last for 20 years. I did try a little to save some money, though: -- I bought a pair of used fairy hubs (age unknown) for $50. And the rebuild kit for about $8. When I took them apart, a inner casting had the dog broken off and the part (available) was about $70. Tough decision. I still hope to find one used fairy hub to round out the lot... -- My son has a Jeep CJ5 and bought a low-dollar pair of Warn hubs from 4-West -- a mail order outfit -- for about $50 a pair... They lasted about 4 months (beyond the warranty) and "...no spares were available..." -- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The one with the plastic turn is not worth buying. -- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained the obvious, but couldn't complete the order. So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock, and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that 20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that means something to me. I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable* premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but I will try RN first. Sorry, just got a little riled. FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort. The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or otherwise... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Wed Oct 13 22:48:04 1993 Return-Path: Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 22:34:55 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? (I don't have a fancy mail package, so I can't include the text under discussion, but...) I just bought from Rover's North this week a pair of Warn hubs. ^[The price was $195 US for a PAIR. I have high hopes that these will reduce roadnoise and wear for my SIIa 88 AND last for 20 years. I did try a little to save some money, though: -- I bought a pair of used fairy hubs (age unknown) for $50. And the rebuild kit for about $8. When I took them apart, a inner casting had the dog broken off and the part (available) was about $70. Tough decision. I still hope to find one used fairy hub to round out the lot... -- My son has a Jeep CJ5 and bought a low-dollar pair of Warn hubs from 4-West -- a mail order outfit -- for about $50 a pair... They lasted about 4 months (beyond the warranty) and "...no spares were available..." -- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The one with the plastic turn is not worth buying. -- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained the obvious, but couldn't complete the order. So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock, and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that 20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that means something to me. I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable* premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but I will try RN first. Sorry, just got a little riled. FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort. The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or otherwise... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ray Harder 1961 SIIa 88 named Lulu. 314-882-2000 We both live in the middle of Missouri. ------------------------------------------------------------------- From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 00:16:59 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: ski racks ? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:47:52 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Dan Chayes writes: > Does anyone there in netland have a ski rack on their land rover ? > In particular I'm wondering if anybody has a Thule rack on their > Land Rover. No rack, but considering the height of my Land Rover, I would need a ladder to get at it. Other LR's that have good springs (the alternative tend to be a bit common here) have the same problem. So, you either very tall, have flat springs, or just very energetic... :-) Rgds, -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 00:38:47 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: thanks From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 21:52:36 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) writes: > As for the tail light ass'y's.....I have a faxed copy of a listing RN sent me > with umpteen diffent lenses listed that were all supposedly used, at one time > or another, on LR's. These may well be one of those, but as you suggest they > don't appear to be the ones on Nigel. I will consult that fax copy (if and > when I find it) to see if there's another lens that fits this description. > BTW-how much is it?? My nearest RN catalogue (three years old-gotaa newer > one with updated prices at home) lists the coned ones for about $80. Well, we are still trying to identify these. Series II seems to fit, though colour is a bit light, they have the clear plastic insert for illuminating a license plate. They are also 3.5" in diameter. Price, for these particular lights are 1.90 pounds for the lenses alone, 4.90 pounds for the complete assembly. These price are for 2.5 - 3.5 lenses. Note, they are not genuine. However, looking at the LR's up here, they seem to have a mixture of lenses, depending on where they were stolen from. Rgds, Dixon -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 02:48:40 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1993 23:35:33 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu writes: > -- People have told us since to get the ones with the brass turn. The > one with the plastic turn is not worth buying. I don't know about Missouri, but in the depths of winter plastics just doesn't hack it when they are locked up solid. At least with brass you can beat them, use force, or a propane torch to make them co-operate. Plastic wouldn't last 30 seconds here. There isn't much plastic that I would trust to last 20 years of use either. > -- When I called 4-West about some hubs for my Land Rover, they > said "...Land Cruiser hubs are out of stock..." I explained > the obvious, but couldn't complete the order. :-) Now that the Defender is here, maybe they will change their tune, but again, who cares. Alternative sources are available who know what a Land Rover is. > So with this backgound, I called RN. And they had them in stock, > and they were the best Warn had to offer. I feel confident that > 20 years from now I will be able to get the rebuild kit and that > means something to me. Actually the rebuild kit supplied is pretty simple. One could make the parts without too much effort. It is the internals, gears and such, that I am accumulating spares of. Including those on the 109, I have three sets of hubs now. > I am a Rovers North fan. I think they have a good stock of parts > and good technical advice. I am one of those who will pay a *reasonable* > premium for genuine parts. This doesn't mean that I won't shop > the LRO magazine and make some calls to England, but > I will try RN first. Don't get me wrong, RN is a good outfit. In fact when it comes to parts suppliers in North America they are probably the best. They generally know what they are talking about, and have experience in rebuilding and repairing our aged beasts. However, their prices are a bit dear. I keep UK and NA catalogues about and compare not only price, but shipping, time, availability and the like when I need something. Besides, 27 pounds for springs is hard to beat over here, and who cares if they come via sea. Of course, our problem with RN is the fact that the Canadian dollar is approaching lira levels of value. I have to add approx. 30 cents on the dollar to RN prices. Around here, RN's only real competition is Atlantic British, but we shall refrain from commenting on them . > FYI, I also bought a $695 overdrive in the reduce-the-noise-effort. > The LRO UK price was lb-455. I did my math, but I am hot on the trail > of a 20% rebuilder's discount from RN and I couldn't rationalize > the hassle. Be glad to hear comments from people who agree or > otherwise... You will enjoy less wear on your front drivetrain, less road noise, better gas milage. An excellent purchase. The rebuilders discount is a good idea of theirs, but the MLRS price was 388 and when you have 900 kilogrammes of parts already on the way, tossing in an overdrive doesn't add much to the shipping costs. Of course, I am a poor one to comment as I have gone off and picked up a used Fairie overdrive despite my comments here on avoiding such, but hey, under half price who could resist... :-) Overdrives are a good idea though. The benefits certainly justify one, especially when one loses some of that feeling that you are parked in the middle of an divided highway as you amble along at a noble and dignified pace, unlike the cretins (like myself at times) playing speed racer and doing the unposted 75mph limit on our highways. The 109 steers like a Zeppelin in a cross wind as it is, imagine what it is like when you are doing 45mph and a large semi-trailer passes you at 75mph... :-( Hmmm, gasoline is about 2.70 an imperial gallon here, I get some 15 miles per gallon, an overdrive will increase my top speed by about ten mph from 45 to 55 mph. Keeping numbers simple, this represends say a fifteen percent increase in fuel efficiency, or some 40 cents a gallon. Divide that into the cost of an overdrive and you don't have to drive that far to justify owning one. Of course, gasoline is cheap in the USA so milage may vary. Rgds, Dixon (Whom others here would say steers his Landie like a Zeppelin in the forest, generally going backwards too...) Trivia: When a heavy winch cable snaps in the dark it make a pretty yellow flash where it parts. How do I know? Well, we snapped one Sunday evening pulling over fifty foot cedars to make a road and gather/create posts and rails for a fence. (Koneig winches driven off the crank are greatm but we gotta get a tackle block. It is a real bummer when the tree lands on top of you. Yeah, we pull them towards us, but they are only cedars. Light and fluffy like at the top. The larger Elm we helped/guided down last week we had a hundred fifty feet of heavy rope to get farther away. Word of warning here though. Make sure the beer cooler is out of the way. A large limb nailed ours :-( Bummer... ) -- dixon kenner, dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 03:47:21 1993 Return-Path: From: daryl@rt2.menzies.su.edu.au (Daryl Webb) Subject: Re: Zeppelins To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:54:02 CST Priority: #1 land-rover, 2 Coopers ale. In-Reply-To: ; from "dixon kenner" at Oct 13, 93 11:35 pm Sorry I could'nt resist Dixon writes > The 109 steers like a Zeppelin in a cross wind as it is, > imagine what it is like when you are doing 45mph and a large > semi-trailer passes you at 75mph... :-( For some real fun Imagine what its like when you're '66 109 H/top is doing 140 Kmh (85+ mph) along a single car width bitumen "highway", and you have to pull off onto the verge to allow a Road Train (a semi with 3 tri axle trailers) whose going warp speed to pass you. YEE HAH, the adrenalin pumps for ages. (Un) Fortunately this cant happen now as the R/trains are speed limited to 100k (60 mph) but until 1992 the sky was the limit. 100 tonnes of 50metre long road train going 160+ Kmh was something scary to get out the way of FAST! Still I'd rather do that sort of thing in a rover than any of the jap 4x4's, ,at least the rovers tend to stay on all 4's unlike a certain Toyota 4x4's (hilux's and 4 runners) As an aside we still dont have an open road speed limit in the N.T. :-) > Make sure the beer cooler is out of the way. A large limb nailed ours :-( Bummer... ) This sort of natural disaster could *never* happen in the Northern Territory, we have our priorities well sorted out ;-) Cheers Daryl Webb (daryl@menzies.su.edu.au) '82 Land-Rover SIII stage I V8 county wagon _-*_|\ ( 360,000+ K and *nearly* stuffed) / \ "Oil leak officer, What oil leak ?" \_.--._/ Darwin Australia (Kakadu country) "Top end Down-under" v From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 04:08:54 1993 Return-Path: From: Mike Rooth Subject: Rear Light Lenses To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 9:58:52 BST The problem with lenses is rife here,too.A couple of years ago I backed into a farm trailer (who the hell left *that* there)and cracked a lens. All thee Land Rover parts dealers I rang said something like"You'll have to bring it,so we can have a look".Seems the vareity was unending.I eventually was given one (now that's what I call a *good* deal).It's difficult,too,to define original in this context,because my rear lights are labelled "Sparto",but I'd hazard a good guess they arent replacements. Looks as though Land Rover fitted whatever they thought appropriate,and never mind who made them! On another tack,would those amongst us who have things like poorly water pumps,please post in a whisper,so mine cant hear.It was all right until yesterday,but I still spent a very wet afternoon replacing the thing. Has anyone else noticed this tendency among Land Rovers?You park alongside another Rover and they *talk*.Then they *both* throw the same sort of wobbler.When I first got mine,it was parked alongside a S111 diesel on a daily basis,for about an hour a day.It got to the stage where we were buying two off everything,'cos if one went wrong,you could bet your boots the other would think"what a good idea" and do the same thing a day later. Eventually we separated them,parked at opposite ends of the yard,which cured the problem.Apparently they cant shout.And NEVER say MOT in their hearing.Ever. Dixon,your mention of a block heater ste me wondering how the guy in the OVLR copes with his diesel in winter.So far,touch wood,I havent had staring problems taht werent electrical,but I'd be interested to know how a diesel copes in your sort of climate.Or perhaps he just doesnt use it, but I'm sure I remember reading about it sometime last winter. Cheers Mike Rooth From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 09:51:23 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 09:11:50 -0500 From: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: strange problems with the lro list or whatever??? I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called. I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle. I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com. I get frustrated and quit and then I see the append the next day??? I guess what I am asking is for a couple of you to append with the mail-to address of the listserv for appending. I had a lot of trouble getting added in the first place and it took about 3 weeks for that to happen. And while you are at it, give me the procedure to retrieve the archive digests. Everything I have tried using commands from the various listserv e-mail forwarding packages I know doesn't work. I just want a smooth proceedure to add a couple of lines of insite, wit, facts, opinion, etc. to the lro-log. Not complaining, I really enjoy the dialog, just want to join in sometimes without thinking too much. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 12:04:53 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:50:33 -0700 From: Teriann J. Wakeman To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu, lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: Would you recommend free-wheeling hubs? Ray, I just checked my Mersyside Land Rover Services catalogue. They have Fairy overdrives for 342 pounds. Thats about US$500. I USED to be a Rovers North fan. But I received a few shipments of wrong parts, and some advice that certain parts would fit when they wouldn't. I listened to Dixon, and when I went to the UK, detoured to Merseyside and stopped off at Merseyside Land Rover Services. I did the math and discovered that even with shipping, I could get most parts for 1/2 to 2/3rds less than what Rovers North charges. And air freight from the UK takes about as long to get to California as does UPS ground. The only disadvantage is it takes a couple of hours to go get the parts and clear them through customs. I was on the Rovers North 20% rebuild programme too. Now I'm on the UK parts direct 50-60% discount programme and chuckling everytime i look at the Rovers North price list. inexpensive parts make my Land Rover smile from over rider to over rider :*) TeriAnn From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 12:30:02 1993 Return-Path: To: ccray@lulu.cc.missouri.edu Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: strange problems with the lro list or whatever??? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 93 09:11:50 CDT." <9310141411.AA16234@lulu.cc.missouri.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:18:31 -0400 From: William Caloccia I think I am receiving all of the forwarded chatter generated by the lro listserv or whatever the mail forward-er is called. I have tried 3 or 4 times to append and each time washassle. > I get back bounced mail saying "..user unknown.." from > both lro@transfer.stratus.com and (I think) lro@stratus.com. What you are probably seeing is that there is a bounce from some subscriber(s) of the list whom no longer exist. The message, as you sent it is sent to everyone (though it seems to take a while to get back to you), and you get a bounce back from one of these 'bad' addresses (which I make an effort to clean up occasionally. If your bounce notifcation is From: Postmaster@*.stratus.com, then I would be interested in seeing the headers and mail. However if it is not From: *.stratus.com, but from some other place, send it on its way to the bit-bucket. Thanks, -- Bill > And while you are at it, give me the procedure to retrieve > the archive digests. Everything I have tried using commands > from the various listserv e-mail forwarding packages I know > doesn't work. At the present we don't have an archiver, or list server (though I'm trying to get Majordomo up to be a list server, but I need to pester my SysAdmin...) -- Bill From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 13:44:19 1993 Return-Path: To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 14:27:45 -0400 From: William Caloccia Ok, (weird) question number 1: Ok, for many moons now I've been debating with my self over whether I should get a soft top, or a roof rack for my IIa 88" Logically, the roof rack is what I want (for travelling, for transporting, for a mobile platform to set my tri-pod on and take photographs from...) Knowing that I'm going with a roof rack, is there any way I can still have a soft-top ? Now, this seems like an entirely nutty question, but what I'm thinking of is the '93 US Defender 110" with the external roll cage... IFF I could put on a soft top, and work a roll cage into the truck, I could put the roof rack (length of the bed) on that... Has anyone see anything like this before ? Is it entirely crazy ? (does that matter ?) Is there anything seriously deficient with this idea ? (I've got a good friend who does (AWESOME) custom race car roll cages for fun and profit, he hates the ordinary, but is intrigued by the extra ordinary...) Ok, question #2: I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal). However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner. Is this correct ? Comments on what else to look for in a rebuild #3: Ok, after lusting over newer Rovers, I figured that for the amount I'd pay in road tax for the first couple years, that same money would go a long way toward making my 88" a _great_ vehicle, and save me from making further donations to the state, or interest payments to the bank... So I've got a '69 IIa 88" with (supposedly) 60,000 original miles I'm at the point where I want to fix more of my rover before I drive it more. So next year I figure I'll be pulling the body parts off and doing the following: chassis and mechanicals: - re-tempering the springs * - bead blast & re-finish what is left of the frame + lots of mounts and things - replace the other brake lines - new wiring * - engine + hardened valves ? other head stuff ? + seals*, rings, & whatever else needs it - transmission / transfer case + do seals*, check gears + add overdrive + serious brake work * (time for drums I think) + front shaft u-joints * + shocks/dampers * + exhaust heat sheild * body: + new foot boxes * + install mud sheilds * (they finished rotting off just about when the foot boxes rotted through) + significant welding on the firewall - strip & paint the body panels + window channel *, door seals *, etc. - front window-washer (something that hasn't worked since I've owned it) all the '*' items are definite need-to-replace type items. I know you haven't seen my IIa, but perhaps those of you with similar experiences might suggest things I've overlooked ? [ I'm half tempted to drive over to AB and let them look it over for further suggestions, but I'm not likely to buy parts there.] The only mod's this Rover has from a stripped station wagon is that it has Warn locking hubs. In the last couple thousand miles I've fitted a Delco Altenator, a used rear diff, a water-pump, wheel bearings, fuel pump diaphram, and most track rod ends, etc. Previous owners did a not-so-good job of alligning spring perches when they welded them on the frame, and I've replaced the two front out-riggers. For you folks who import from the U.K. to the U.S., can you have an idea of what the custom's duty is ? and Merryside's address (do they have a catalog or price list ?) --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 15:31:07 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:12:51 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? Bill, I assume you have a "Genuine Rover" rear tire carrier. It is designed to fit between the sheet metal (steel) ribs in the door and there is only one place that it fits... too low! It was made to use with the pintle hitch, but the tire hits a ball hitch. You can move it up but it requires moving one of the ribs. This is not difficult if you have some welding equipment and can weld the thin gage stuff. Another reason to move it up is the fact that the tire has been known to get pushed into the rear window when going down a steep embankment. When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide. I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5" above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch. Regards, Bill G. > Ok, question #2: > > I've got a tyre carrier mounted on the rear door (and internal). > However it is located near the bottem of the door, and if I were to > put a tyre on it, it would interfere with the hitch, blocking the > door from closing. My guess is the hitch is in the standard > location and the tyre mount was located too low by a previous owner. > > Is this correct ? > > > --bill caloccia@Team.Net caloccia@Stratus.Com > > N R 1 3 2 H "Land Rover's first, becuase > | +--|--| | | Land Rovers last." '69 Mk.IIa 88" > OD 2 4 4 L land-rover-owners-request@Team.Net > > From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:22:05 1993 Return-Path: To: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 93 13:12:51 PDT." <9310142012.AA07968@terminous.Eng.Sun.COM> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:03:32 -0400 From: William Caloccia > When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing > that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide. > I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5" > above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch. I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to the door fram near the lower hinge. The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the extra support the tyre could use. (And If I do go to a rag top the swing opening rear door would still allow me to carry a tire back there !) From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:33:31 1993 Return-Path: From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Polling all tires To: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:27:08 CDT Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com This is bound to unleash a flurry of controversy. I wanted to poll everyone on what type of tires they are running and why. The stock tire called for is a 205R15 which is not available today. I believe the older tires translate to just over an 80 series profile. The only bum steer I have ever received from Rover's North was concerning this question. Lanny told me that the stock rims were "pretty wide" and to shod (maybe he said shoot) it with 30x950R15. He even suggested some of the newer B.F.Goodrich 33x950R15 that are now being made. After doing my own research, I found out that the stock rim is only 6" wide and that the tires Laney suggested require a 7.5" to 8" rim (one has to wonder if this means they are running Rovers with tires that are accidents waiting to happen). Besides, who wants a monster truck that bounces up and down all the time. I thought I had always read that Rovers did better with the narrower tires anyway (narrow tire advocates, step in here. Wide tire advocates, you too. It seems to me that there are times where one or the other works best, but that narrower work best on just about everything except maybe mud and certain types of snow and improve gas mileage along the way to boot). I was impressed with the CR rating of the Dunlop Radial Rover (not just the name, but it's a nice perk). They also rated it as the quietest tire in the all-terrain class. Being concerned about an accurate speedometer & odometer, I decided to try the 215/75R15 because its profile was the closest to the original (the wider a tire the greater its diameter - therefore a 215 tire is taller than a 205). While these made the Rover handle and respond like a Mini- Cooper (o.k....almost) I wanted a higher profile tire regardless of speedometer accuracy...I mean, aside from the ground clearance issue, I paid $700 for an overdrive, I want to get my money's worth out of it. Upon closer examination, I also discovered that these are P-metric, passenger car tires with 4-ply not 6-ply belting as in an LT tire - which I had assumed they were (apparently most manufacturers LT's start with 235 size and go up - one or two do make LT215's). Also no one makes LT 85 series tires in 15 like they do for 16 inch tires. It helps to buy tires somewhere they have a thirty-day guarantee, the 215's were replaced with LT235/75R15's and I could not be happier. They're taller, track extremely well, are quiet, I don't bounce all over the road and they have a good tread design for off-road use. When I started out on this venture I was considering going with 16" rims but they are basically not available used and new is out of my price range right now. Even used Range Rover cast alloys are prohibitively expensive when they can be found. Anyway, the height differential for the same type of tire in 16 inch is only one inch (which only translates into a half-inch vehicle height difference). The advantage, however, to 16 inch rims is the availability of 85 series tires. So for instance, a 235/85R16 tire has a diameter of 31.6" compared with my 235/75R15's 29.6". That's a height difference of 2.6" (or 1.3" vehicle ground clearance) and revolutions per mile work out to be 676 versus 741 or about a 10% improvement on top end and gas mileage! So I'd like to hear about what configurations everyone has and why - 15", 16", narrow, wide, etc. BTW, mine cruises along just fine on the Kansas plain at 65mph (which is by no means the top end, but getting there). ABTW, got a brochure from the local Rover dealer for the Defender 90 soft top due this month. They have B.F.Goodrich Radial Mud Terrain T/A LT265/75R16's on them. Paul 1973 88 Series III From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:50:03 1993 Return-Path: From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:41:11 CDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9310142103.AA01818@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 5:03 pm What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door?? They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark of a REAL Rover. Paul 1973 88 Series III (tire on the hood) > > > When I moved mine I also added some 1" X 1/2", .062" wall, square tubeing > > that puts the spare tire weight on the bottom hinge and the door latch guide. > > I also added the third (middle) hinge. My 7.50X16 spare sticks up about 1.5" > > above the bottom edge of the window, and clears the ball by about an inch. > > I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to > the door fram near the lower hinge. > > The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the > extra support the tyre could use. > > (And If I do go to a rag top the swing opening rear door would still allow > me to carry a tire back there !) > > -- *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 16:53:43 1993 Return-Path: To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:41:11 CDT." <199310142141.AA22003@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 17:41:11 -0400 From: William Caloccia > They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they > do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark > of a REAL Rover. This is half true. > What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door?? I though everyone carried *two* spares. From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:06:26 1993 Return-Path: From: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? To: caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com (William Caloccia) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 16:58:31 CDT Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com (Rover Owners) Reply-To: phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com In-Reply-To: <9310142141.AA01939@tornadic.sw.stratus.com>; from "William Caloccia" at Oct 14, 93 5:41 pm > > > > They were meant to be on the hood and despite what everyone asks, they > > do not effect visibility. Besides, tire on the hood is the trademark > > of a REAL Rover. > > This is half true. > > > What's all this fuss about tires on the rear door?? > > I though everyone carried *two* spares. > O.K., you got me there, although whats wrong with the second spare mounted behind the front seats? I'm in need of a new rear door because the previous owner had the tire on it and the door is bent to hell. For all the great engineering they did on Rovers, they did some goofy stuff for some of the smaller detail items - they must have put one of their summer intern engineering students on the design of the rear door and carrier. -- *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* * * * Paul H. Hester | "I know that you believe you * * Project Manager | understand what you think was * * (913) 599-1250 | said, but I am not sure you * * FAX 913-599-0750 | realize that what you heard * * Mailstop: KSLEN | is not what was meant." * * * *********** hesterph@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com ************* From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:09:54 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dd@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Diesel Starting and winter From: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Reply-To: dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (Dale Desprey) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1993 16:37:27 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada Mike Rooth asked how I get my 68 Land Rover started in the winter. The short answer is with great difficulty. Last winter I had starter motor problems, one day it would turn over, the next it wouldn't. Things that I have tried include boosting (the power drain can almost stall the car giving the boost), adding a SMALL amount of gasoline to the diesel fuel, block heaters, two batteries, andf the ever exciting pull start. I say exciting because last year, I was pulled by a friend in a Jimmy (I hope noone saw this). As we drove up the smow covered streets, I lift up on the clutch and start sliding from side of the street. The oil in the rear axle being frozen solid. We decided to find clear pavement, and with a reasuring cracking noise from the rear axle and a half mile later It had started. I should have better luck this year (rebuilt starter) Dale (Diesel) Desprey Ottawa, Ontario -- Dale Desprey, dd@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca FourFold Symmetry, Nepean, Ontario, Canada From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:17:19 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:05:31 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com, phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com Subject: Re: Polling all tires '64 88 7.50 x 16 michelin XC4 m&s on stock 109 (6.5" wide) rims, with tubes, carry two spares, one bonnet, one rear door "No hill too steep, no ditch too deep!" Just last month at Pyramid Lake, Nevada a friend who drives a Toyota pick- up (puke) with WIDE tires on CHROME rims got stuck trying to launch a ski boat off the beach. Pulled him out. Pulled the boat out. (He decided to take it to the concrete ramp). He hooked the boat up to his truck again, and got stuck in loose sand. Pulled him out again. He said, "I've just gained a whole new respect for your little red Rover and those skinny tires". He told me the other day he was looking for a Rover. R, bg From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 17:46:51 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 15:35:03 PDT From: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com (William L. Grouell) To: growl@terminous.eng.sun.com, caloccia@tornadic.sw.stratus.com Subject: Re: What to do with my IIa 88" ??? Cc: lro@transfer.stratus.com > I presume the extra brace was from the center of the tire mount-area to > the door fram near the lower hinge. > I made a frame for the square plate of the stock tire carrier out of angle iron. The extra supports are welded to this frame, top and bottom. > The third hinge sounds like a good idea all around, considering the > extra support the tyre could use. > I think the factory did this on later models. Just get another hinge like the one on the bottom, make sure it's "in line" with the other two. I think it important that the holes, where the bolts that go through the door frame have steel tubes brazed in them. They prevent the bolts from crushing the frame when tightened. Look at the way the factory did it and copy. Drill 5/16 hole all the way through, then on the inside only, drill to just fit the outside diameter of the tube that you're using. Cut the tube so that about 1/16" sticks out, braze only the inside joint so you're not close to the aluminum (alumininum, if you insist) skin and your lovly paint job. put a bolt and nut tight through the tube while brazing so the tube is tight against the inside of the frame on the outside. Huh? You get it. Sheesh, that looks nice and strong now. R, bg Spares at both ends From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Thu Oct 14 18:58:17 1993 Return-Path: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 93 23:46:19 GMT From: u10122@sdsc.edu (dushin russell) To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: warning and.. Two things- First: complaints about weird msgs have appeared recently. I think most of these are due (as pointed out by Bill) to "expired users". One very recent one was my fault-a personal msg ended up on this list. (sorry folks-but anyone else out there into "soul train"??) Second: a word of warning to those who want a soft top (and more to whomever wants a roof rack on his or her soft top). although it has been a long while since I had the pleasure of having one, I do recall that soft tops, especially seasoned soft tops, have a tendancy to rip VERY EASILY when wet. If it is raining, and you are dry beneath the aged canvas, DO NOT touch it. Yes, even a touch-the lightest touch, can be enough to destroy an (older) soft top.....despite this, I still want one, but it will have to wait until next year. rd/nigel From shute!@mtcamm.monsanto.com:car-list-rejects@transfer.stratus.com Fri Oct 15 02:51:23 1993 Return-Path: <@mail.uunet.ca:sandelman.ocunix.on.ca!aficom!fourfold!dixon@micor> To: lro@transfer.stratus.com Subject: Polling all tires From: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Reply-To: dixon@fourfold.ocunix.on.ca (dixon kenner) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 1993 01:18:48 -0400 Organization: FourFold Symmetry - Nepean, Ontario, Canada phhester@lenexa.lenexa.ingr.com (Paul Hester) writes: > So I'd like to hear about what configurations everyone has > and why - 15", 16", narrow, wide, etc. BTW, mine cruises > along just fine on the Kansas plain at 65mph (which is by no > means the top end, but getting there). ABTW, got a brochure > from the local Rover dealer for the Defender 90 soft top due > this month. They have B.F.Goodrich Radial Mud Terrain T/A > LT265/75R16's on them. Firestone, 4 ply, bias ply tires. 16" rims, 100% profile. They are 7.5" tires and are very tall and narrow looking. They look magnificent, are unavailable un North America, and mine are pushing 25 years old. They are available in the UK though. Now, these tires are very agressive and great in a swamp. On a highway, I get the Zeppelin effect, henc