Toy4x4 Digest Wed, 16 Apr 97 00:30:02 (HST) Volume 1 : Issue 131 Today's Topics: 20R head on a 22R block. Why? (4 msgs) 4Runner not starting (3 msgs) 4runner starting 88' V6 K&N filters?? another stupid question... oil pressure Bio (2 msgs) Body lift or no lift? (15 msgs) cam scam Cancellation Cockpit mistery (3 msgs) Diff drain bolt size? (4 msgs) Double Cabs Driveline angles drive line cures??? Engine swap Getting to the 22R Oil Filter (3 msgs) headers?? Hollister Pictures Hubs (5 msgs) just for the record (3 msgs) K&N Filters (3 msgs) manual tranny strength (3 msgs) No subject given O2 Sensor (3 msgs) oil changes at 3000 miles (2 msgs) PCV Question - manual transmission probs Rancho RS9000 (2 msgs) Rancho RS9000's Cheap. Rear droop (2 msgs) safety wire (2 msgs) shackles and procomp 85 4RUNNER Speedo/Odometer accuracy (was: just for the record) Speedo Inaccuracies starting woes (2 msgs) Stupid Truck Stories (was Re: Rear droop) Subject: Speedo/Odometer accuracy (was: just for the record) Timing and clutch (2 msgs) To Poly or not to Poly torque rod Toy4x4 Digest V1 #130 (3 msgs) Ventilation Noise? (4 msgs) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- Toyota 4x4 Mailing List (Toy4x4) --- ** Sponsored by OFF-ROAD.com, The Off-Road Center of the 'Net! ** ** Visit our WWW Page -- "http://www.off-road.com" ** ** TLCA Web Page -- "http://www.tlca.org" ** To post to list: Toy4x4@tlca.org Administrative matters (sign up, unsubscribe, mail problems, etc): Toy4x4-request@tlca.org Digest back issues are available at: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toy4x4/toy4x4_digest.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:36:19 -0400 (EDT) From: SKeene8194@aol.com Subject: 20R head on a 22R block. Why? To: toy4x4@tlca.org I have see and heard that putting a 20R head on 22R motor will give you a performmance increase. 1. Will it pass a Califrnia smog test? Provided the test tech. does not notice the different head. 2. Will a stock 20R head work or does it need special rework? 3. Is it a direct bolt on? I've seen the 20R head and it looks like it has larger intake valves. True? Steve Keene skeene8194@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:05:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: 20R head on a 22R block. Why? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I have see and heard that putting a 20R head on 22R motor> will give you a performmance increase.>> 1. Will it pass a Califrnia smog test? Provided the test tech. does not> notice the> different head.>> 2. Will a stock 20R head work or does it need special rework?>> 3. Is it a direct bolt on?>> I've seen the 20R head and it looks like it has larger intake valves. True? I had some questions about this too. AFAIK 20R engines use a dual timing chain, right? How does this work on later model single timing chain motors? Will a 22R cam fit in the 20r head? Which intake, exhaust, and head gaskets do you use? 20r, 22r, or are they all the same? If it matters this is for an '86 California 22r w/a downey header, and Weber carb/stock intake manifold. Oh, one more thing. If I get a chance to look for one, what cars and trucks used the 20r? What's the easiest way to do a quick and dirty head removal without any special tools? __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:47:22 -0500 From: Jack Alford Subject: 20R head on a 22R block. Why? To: toy4x4@tlca.org SKeene8194@aol.com wrote:>I have see and heard that putting a 20R head on 22R motor>will give you a performmance increase. Yes, To use the 20R head on the 22R block, you use the pop top pistons of the early 22R's this combined with the smaller combustion chamber of the 20R head which flows much better than the 22R head increase the compression ratio a few points.>1. Will it pass a Califrnia smog test? Provided the test tech. does not>notice the different head. According to the article in FOURWHEELER magazine last year, No it will not. Something about using later parts on a newer engine or something. I'll dig the article up and see what it says ... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net! jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/ Decatur, AL '86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:55:06 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: 20R head on a 22R block. Why? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Jonathan Albrecht wrote:>>> I have see and heard that putting a 20R head on 22R motor>> will give you a performmance increase.>>>> 1. Will it pass a Califrnia smog test? Provided the test tech. does not>> notice the>> different head. Should with no problem provided all tune-up items are set to spec. and everything else is in stock condition.>>>> 2. Will a stock 20R head work or does it need special rework? Will fit on all but '85 and later 22RE/RET blocks.>>>> 3. Is it a direct bolt on? See above.>>>> I've seen the 20R head and it looks like it has larger intake valves. True? Actually, 22R intake valves are slightly larger but 20Rs can be modified to accept the 22R intakes.>> I had some questions about this too. AFAIK 20R engines use a dual timing> chain, right? How does this work on later model single timing chain> motors? You must use the 20Rs timing cover, oil pump, oil pump drive, and water pump.>> Will a 22R cam fit in the 20r head? Most aftermarket cams advertise the same shaft for 20/22Rs. Check around. Dimensionally, it will fit.>> Which intake, exhaust, and head gaskets do you use? 20r, 22r, or are they> all the same? Use the above for the 20R. 20Rs have round ports on the intake whereas 22Rs are square.>> If it matters this is for an '86 California 22r w/a downey header, and> Weber carb/stock intake manifold. This is not a smog-legal conversion as 20Rs were not offered in '86. If your Weber has and E.O., making it legal in CA, and the carb. flange is the same for the 20R you might be able to squeak by.>> Oh, one more thing. If I get a chance to look for one, what cars and> trucks used the 20r? What's the easiest way to do a quick and dirty head> removal without any special tools? I believe 1980 and earlier trucks, Celicas, and Coronas. As for tools, the sundry metric sockets and wrenches, 1/2 drive breaker bar and 17mm socket for the head bolts, one or two screwdrivers, prybar, hammer (manditory for the "dirty" part), some extensions, pliers...you get the point. If you are doing this in a wrecking yard do what I do: take the tools you'll think you need, then take some more! You never can have enough tools, especially when you find something else that you just can't LIVE without.> __> - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 1997 08:35:52 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck Subject: 4Runner not starting To: toy4x4@tlca.org>> Brian G Mess writes: BGM> I recently had a problem starting my 88 V6 4Runner. After BGM> driving a short distance, I parked the truck. Upon trying to BGM> restart the truck all I got was a clicking sound eminating from BGM> behind the glove box. Also, I noticed that the Voltmeter dropped BGM> to nearly 0 when I turned the key. Also the "Check Engine" light BGM> dimmed signifiantly while turning the key. BGM> I checked the wiring to/from the coil and looked for any other BGM> "odd" things. Found nothing. When I got back in and tried BGM> again, it started on the first turn of the key. I have the exact same thing happen to my 1985 22RE. I have excellent connections on all of the battery connections, both positive and negative. I have cleaned the connection to the starter of the relay wire and re-crimped the connector (in the brown plastic connector that has the spade lug connector inside). This has not solved the problem. I have just learned to live with it. Every time it happens, I just sit there turning the key on and off and eventually it will start. Sometimes in 3 or 4 cycles, sometimes takes 20 or more tries. Is there anything else it can be? What about the relay system that is hooked to the clutch and to the "Safety Cancel" switch? Could this somehow be flaky? thanks, dion `85 4Runner 22RE `86 4x4 PU 22RE Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:09:57 +0100 From: Earle Rother Subject: 4Runner not starting To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>I have the exact same thing happen to my 1985 22RE. I have excellent>connections on all of the battery connections, both positive and>negative. I have cleaned the connection to the starter of the relay>wire and re-crimped the connector (in the brown plastic connector that>has the spade lug connector inside). This has not solved the>problem.> did you check the connection at the starter? sometimes water/mud can get under the rubber cap at the starter and cause the connection to become weak. Earle Rother ewr@appsig.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:47:01 -0400 (EDT) From: "Dr. Karl Bellve" Subject: 4Runner not starting To: Toy4x4@tlca.org On 15 Apr 1997, Dion Hollenbeck wrote:> I have just learned to live with it. Every time it happens, I just> sit there turning the key on and off and eventually it will start.> Sometimes in 3 or 4 cycles, sometimes takes 20 or more tries.>> Is there anything else it can be? What about the relay system that is> hooked to the clutch and to the "Safety Cancel" switch? Could this> somehow be flaky? It could be a dead spot on your starter. Hit it with a hammer to get it to move, then retry. Dr. Karl Bellve Biomedical Imaging Group University of Massachusetts WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/ Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:13:15 -0700 From: Scott Muir Subject: 4runner starting To: bgmess@worldnet.att.net, toy4x4@tlca.org Currently (no pun intended) my trucks doing this too.. Cleaning your battery terminals with a wire brush should fix it... It's surprizing what a little oxide will do.. Before you put it back together, coat the terminals and clips with petrolium jelly. PS. I'm just too lazy at the moment to do anything about it.. Scott wsmuir@islandnet.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:11:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Valentine Subject: 88' V6 K&N filters?? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org I installed the K&N FilterCharger. I'm very pleased. I noticed huge improvement in responsiveness. The one thing that concerns me with it is water being sucked into the engine. I took it through brushless car was that sprays the undercarriage and stuff and thought about getting water into the engine prior so I kinda drove fast over the spray and then I shut down once I was in position in the car wash. I drove out when it was finished and checked under the hood. It was wet inside the engine compartment around the filtercharger cone. I don't go through car washes anymore. I don't drive through streams or rivers (as of yet) except when the roadways out here in Western Washington get overtaken by flooding:-(. But this is the only negative aspect I've noticed about the K&N. If you install one be carefull when disconnecting the cable on the air flow meter. I screwed mine up when I removed the 2 screws instead of removing the spring clip. As for your oil leaks I've noticed oil all over under my V6 too. It does not loose much oil though. I have to add about 1/2 qt. every 2500mi. of heavy driving. ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 1997 08:40:27 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck Subject: another stupid question... oil pressure To: toy4x4@tlca.org 86 4x4 PU - 22RE warm at idle - 1/4 warm at speed - 1/2 85 4Runner - 22RE warm at idle - 1/8 warm at speed - 3/8 Both engines recently rebuilt, both stock except that they are microbalanced and the 3Runner has a Schneider "RV grind" cam. dion `85 4Runner 22RE `86 4x4 PU 22RE Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:18:57 -0400 (EDT) From: SERoper25@aol.com Subject: Bio To: toy4x4@tlca.org Here is info requested about the bio--- Name - Steve Roper City/state - Hattiesburg, MS Country - USA E-mail - seroper25 06@aol.com Toy's I have - A 1981 SWB truck Age - 41 occupation - Environmental & Safety Specialist Married - Yes Hobbies - Hunting and Fishing Where did I fine the Toyota list - On the search list of internet other info - I use the truck primarily for hunting. I deer hunt and use the truck all winter as well as summer and fall planting. I also have a 8000"Warn winch which has come in handy on several occasions. The Toyota is a very durable truck. thanks Steve ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:47:30 -0400 From: Joe Murphy Subject: Bio To: Toy4x4 Personal Bio Info POST TO THE LIST ONLY>> toy4x4@tlca.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Name: Joe Murphy City & State: Springfield, VA Country: USA E-mail address: jmurphy@cais.com Toyota (s) year & model: 1997 4Runner SR5 Are you a TLCA Member (Y/N/Number?):N Age:33 Occupation: Software Consultant Marital Status: Married Hobbies: Camping, Hiking, PCs, Home Repair How did you find out about the Toyota 4x4 Mailing List: offroad.com General info about your vehicle, self, etc.: Stock 97 SR5 in Desert Dune with the P265/70/R16 Tires. Having fun driving it so far!! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:37:50 -0800 From: Scott Wilson Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy 4x4 List I having an identity crisis! I don't know if I have a body lift or not! OK, I bought my 4Runner 8-9 months ago, and new the tortion bars were turned up, BUT! was never told I had a (body) lift. (I'm not sure if I do or not). I just had lunch with Richard Aguinsky who's also on this list, and we were comparing his 87 4Runner to my 88. Big height difference. Part of it is my torsion bars, and shackles in the rear, but is there more? His frame is not visible while standing next to the truck, and mine is! I've noticed before that on the cab mounts I have what looks like a body lift to me, but I've never been sure. There is a 2" cylinder type plastic block in between the cab and frame, on Richard's truck there is none. So, if from my description you know for sure I have a lift, please tell me so I know for sure. OR if you've got an 88 V6 SR5 4Runner please go out and look if you've got the same 2" cylinders between the cab and frame (or if your frame is visible from the side or not) Scott(who now thinks he has a body lift, and isn't too excited about it) - -- ***************************************************** Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 88 4Runner SR5 V6 Santa Clara, CA http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:20:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Geiger Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I having an identity crisis! I don't know if I have a body lift or not! Sounds like ya do. Chris Geiger '93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:11:52 -0400 (EDT) From: DRM033@aol.com Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org In a message dated 97-04-15 17:03:54 EDT, you write:>> Scott(who now thinks he has a body lift, and isn't too excited about it)> -- Why complain? You obviously have a body lift, and if you didn't know by now, It must not be a problem. David DRM033@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:46:08 -0400 (EDT) From: DRM033@aol.com Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org In a message dated 97-04-15 17:03:54 EDT, you write:>> Scott(who now thinks he has a body lift, and isn't too excited about it)> -- Why complain? You obviously have a body lift, and if you didn't know by now, It must not be a problem. David DRM033@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:49:31 -0800 From: Scott Wilson Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org DRM033@aol.com wrote:>> Scott(who now thinks he has a body lift, and isn't too excited about it)>> --> Why complain? You obviously have a body lift, and if you didn't know by> now, It must not be a problem. Because I haven't been quite happy with it. For example, just the other week I posted about options for my gas tank. 4Runner gas tanks hang lower I know, but I drug (dragged?) it over hill a while back, when I felt I shouldn't have. For the height that I do have (3-4" total) I'd really like for it to be all suspension lift. Then I'd have that much more clearance to my tank, and xfer skid plate. Then I've got this strange popping in the front end when the weight of the truck shifts (like going into a turn), wonder if this lift could have effected the steering geometry or something like that? As you know, I just found this out, so I'm still deciding what I'll do about it. Right now I'm thinking towards the end of summer when I might be able to afford it, remove the body lift and shackle lift, and have a GOOD 4" lift put on it (by a shop). Maybe ProComp or Rancho? Anyone have preferences? I'd love to hear opinions on this! Besides, I know some of these kits out there will offer me increased wheel travel, and that sounds great to me. I'd love to be putting on a straight axle instead, but the time isn't right. Scott - -- ***************************************************** Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 88 4Runner SR5 V6 Santa Clara, CA http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:16:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I having an identity crisis! I don't know if I have a body lift or not!>> OK, I bought my 4Runner 8-9 months ago, and new the tortion bars were> turned up, BUT! was never told I had a (body) lift. (I'm not sure if I> do or not). It sounds kinda like you've got a 2" body lift, minus the body bushings. Is that what it looks like? Also, does your front bumper fit right? If they lifted that too, you'll notice some plates that go between the frame and the bumper mout bracket (to raise it up). __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:22:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>> Scott(who now thinks he has a body lift, and isn't too excited about it)>> --> Why complain? You obviously have a body lift, and if you didn't know by> now, It must not be a problem. The only thing I'd worry about is if he doesn't have any body bushings left. Some people don't use them for some reason when they do the body lift, but I don't know why.. But I had a 2" body on my last truck, and I might do it again on my next one. It's really a good way to go, because it keeps the center of gravity low. Most IFS suspension kit's don't do a lot for travel.. __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:42:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>> Why complain? You obviously have a body lift, and if you didn't know by>> now, It must not be a problem.>> Then I've got this strange popping in the front end when the weight of> the truck shifts (like going into a turn), wonder if this lift could> have effected the steering geometry or something like that? No, I don't think it would. It only effects the geometry between the steering column and the steering box. If you've got a 2" body lift, and no body bushings, then you've got more like an 1" or 1.5" body lift, and angles should be fine. You might check to see if the shaft is binding though, because when you do a body lift, the shaft needs to be extended. With just a small lift, you can get away with loosening the colar on the upper u-joint, and slipping the steering shaft down a bit. On the 3" body lifts, usually the firewall end of the steering column needs to be lowered slightly too (like maybe half inch or so) but I'm not even sure how neccesary this is.> As you know, I just found this out, so I'm still deciding what I'll do> about it. Right now I'm thinking towards the end of summer when I might> be able to afford it, remove the body lift and shackle lift, and have a> GOOD 4" lift put on it (by a shop). Maybe ProComp or Rancho? Anyone> have preferences? I'd love to hear opinions on this! Besides, I know AFAIK all the main kit's, ie pro-comp stage I and II, superlift, and trailmaster don't increase travel much at all. They mostly just put in spacers (or drop down brackets) in the middle of the suspension. The Rancho kit is the only one that actually advertises more travel, so that's the one I prefer. Unfortunately, I've never worked with one. The superlift kit (standard--the $700 one) looks better than the pro-comp stage I on that 4runner I'm looking at. The trailmaster is a bit beefier too. The downside with the Superlift (at least in our case) was crappy build quality. Also, the Rancho is the only kit that let's you use stock offset wheels. On the Rancho, it uses new upper a-arms, and stock 'steering knuckle' brackets. On the others (excluding the $1400 superlift superlink kit) they use a special bracket, so the upper arm stays in the same place. Since the rest of the suspension drops down, the wheel/tire come really close to the upper a-arm, so I don't think they'll fit (the a - -arm is 4" higher in relation to the wheel on a stocker) |From everything I've heard, the Pro-Comp stage II is the best bet if you want the 4" lift (it's beefier than the stage I, and has braces between the lower drop downs and the bump stops), or if you want travel, go for the Rancho. Ultimately, I bet you could combine a Pro-Comp with the Downey/Rancho 10" travel kit for 4-7" of lift and more than 10" of travel...sounds pretty cool, but expensive!! good luck, __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:19:32 -0400 (EDT) From: DRM033@aol.com Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org In a message dated 97-04-15 22:25:41 EDT, Scott writes:> Because I haven't been quite happy with it. For example, just the other> week I posted about options for my gas tank. 4Runner gas tanks hang> lower I know, but I drug (dragged?) it over hill a while back, when I> felt I shouldn't have. For the height that I do have (3-4" total) I'd> really like for it to be all suspension lift. Then I'd have that much> more clearance to my tank, and xfer skid plate. The Body lift has nothing to do with this. Larger tires and/or a suspension lift will raise it.>> Then I've got this strange popping in the front end when the weight of> the truck shifts (like going into a turn), wonder if this lift could> have effected the steering geometry or something like that? I would check into the body lift. Look at all of your mounting points aroud the cab. Ckeck the bushings (if they are there). Check the cab floor for signs that preasure is stressing/cracking the metal. Check that the bolts are tight. Downey has some weld on mounts to replace the front body mounts. I like that idea, seeing how they are subject to so much stress. Also, look at the steering and suspension components. The lower joint on the steering tends to go when a body lift is added. I used to think body lifts were BAD. I have since come to the conclusion that they their place. I am about to build up my 81 Toy with a 350 & fullsize running gear. I will be adding a body lift for both the engine clearance, and to keep the weight low. Small suspension lift, body lift, and fender trimming in the front (flat bed in the rear) will be the way I will go . I feel this will best suit my needs. I will really consider relocation of the frame portion of the body mounts to a higher position to try to reduce the shearing that can occur with a body lift. Just my thoughts. David DRM033@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:47:24 -0500 From: Jack Alford Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: toy4x4@tlca.org DRM033@aol.com wrote:>> Because I haven't been quite happy with it. For example, just the other>> week I posted about options for my gas tank. 4Runner gas tanks hang>> lower I know, but I drug (dragged?) it over hill a while back, when I>> felt I shouldn't have. For the height that I do have (3-4" total) I'd>> really like for it to be all suspension lift. Then I'd have that much>> more clearance to my tank, and xfer skid plate.>The Body lift has nothing to do with this. Larger tires and/or a suspension>lift will raise it. Yes it does. Think about just raising the body of the truck 2" or raising the frame of the truck 2" and all the accesories he mentions raising are also bolted to the frame which would get raised 2" with a suspension lift and not with a body lift. - ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net! jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/ Decatur, AL '86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:09:39 -0400 (EDT) From: DRM033@aol.com Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org I wrote:>>The Body lift has nothing to do with this. Larger tires and/or a suspension>>lift will raise it.> Yes it does. Think about just raising the body of the truck 2"> or raising the frame of the truck 2" and all the accesories he mentions> raising are also bolted to the frame which would get raised 2" with a> suspension lift and not with a body lift.>> -----------------------------------------------------------------> Jack Alford Sorry, I did not clarify myself. The body lift had nothing to do with him dragging his gas tank on that occasion. It did not CAUSE it to drag. Yes, adding a suspension lift would raise the tank, but I think it would be a lot of work to get rid of the body lift just for that reason. Why not keep the body lift, add a susp. lift, and enjoy the extra clearance or get even bigger tires? David DRM033@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:34:02 -0700 From: Scott Wilson Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org DRM033@aol.com wrote:>> In a message dated 97-04-15 22:25:41 EDT, Scott writes:>> For the height that I do have (3-4" total) I'd>> really like for it to be all suspension lift. Then I'd have that much>> more clearance to my tank, and xfer skid plate.>> The Body lift has nothing to do with this. Larger tires and/or a suspension> lift will raise it.>> Yeah it does if you want to retain the same overall height, that's what I was trying to say above. If I were to change to an -all suspension- lift (no body lift), and retain the same overall height of the vehicle, the frame would be raised by the amount (height) of the body lift. Therefore, I would have increased clearance to my xfer case skid plate, and gas tank. As you said, tires will also help this problem, and I plan to go up to 32"s this summer.> I would check into the body lift. Look at all of your mounting points aroud> the cab. Ckeck the bushings (if they are there). Check the cab floor for> signs that preasure is stressing/cracking the metal. Check that the bolts> are tight. Thanks, I'll do that.>> I used to think body lifts were BAD. I have since come to the conclusion> that they their place. I am about to build up my 81 Toy with a 350 &> fullsize running gear. I will be adding a body lift for both the engine> clearance, and to keep the weight low. Small suspension lift, body lift, and> fender trimming in the front (flat bed in the rear) will be the way I will go> . I feel this will best suit my needs. I will really consider relocation of> the frame portion of the body mounts to a higher position to try to reduce> the shearing that can occur with a body lift. Just my thoughts. Yeah, I guess they do have their place, especially for keeping C of G low. Maybe I should reconsider getting rid of the body lift. I'm not really happy with where the C of G is now (I'm talking about off-roading at extreme angles, not daily driving (for they guy who is worried about flipping his car because of putting on bigger tires)) That's why I'm anxious to get my wider rims, and tires...it'll lower my Center of Gravity just a bit more. Plus, I'm really happy with the trucks performance as it is. **Question** Do they make nerf bars for body lifted trucks so that when they attatch to the frame they'll still be at "normal" level? (i.e. if I bought normal nerfs for my 4Runner w/a 2" body lift, the bar would be 2" below where they should be, when compared to the cab. I see guys with standard nerfs on their trucks and body lifts, and they look really silly. I guess it would be that much easier to do a custom mount for the nerfs with all that extra frame exposed. Thanks, Scott - -- Scott A. Wilson __o __o __o __o Santa Clara, CA _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ swilson@pacbell.net (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:42:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I was trying to say above. If I were to change to an -all suspension-> lift (no body lift), and retain the same overall height of the vehicle,> the frame would be raised by the amount (height) of the body lift.> Therefore, I would have increased clearance to my xfer case skid plate,> and gas tank. As you said, tires will also help this problem, and I> plan to go up to 32"s this summer. You know, if you plan to do a suspension lift anyway, you might want to consider something larger (than 32's), so you don't end up deciding you want 33" plus a little later on (as a lot of people, myself included, do) If it was my truck, I'd probably take advantage of the body lift and go for 33's. Then later on, you can pull the body lift in favor of a suspension lift, if you want.>> I would check into the body lift. Look at all of your mounting points aroud>> the cab. Ckeck the bushings (if they are there). Check the cab floor for>> signs that preasure is stressing/cracking the metal. Check that the bolts>> are tight.>> Thanks, I'll do that. If you don't have body bushings on there, you might want to add them. I know it's a lot of work, but the body lift blocks (that I've seen) don't have much if any give. So all that stress is absorbed by the mount on the body, instead of in a bushing.> Yeah, I guess they do have their place, especially for keeping C of G> low. Maybe I should reconsider getting rid of the body lift. I'm not> really happy with where the C of G is now (I'm talking about off-roading> at extreme angles, not daily driving (for they guy who is worried about> flipping his car because of putting on bigger tires)) That's why I'm> anxious to get my wider rims, and tires...it'll lower my Center of> Gravity just a bit more. Plus, I'm really happy with the trucks> performance as it is. Well, it won't lower the CoG, but yeah, I know what you mean. __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:01:44 -0700 From: Scott Wilson Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Jonathan Albrecht wrote:> You know, if you plan to do a suspension lift anyway, you might want to> consider something larger (than 32's), so you don't end up deciding you> want 33" plus a little later on (as a lot of people, myself included, do)> I've thought about it, but I don't want to have to regear. I plan on keeping my 31" AT's on my SR5 rims, and having 32" MT's on 8.5" rims, then I can switch for whatever driving I'll be doing.>> Yeah, I guess they do have their place, especially for keeping C of G>> low. Maybe I should reconsider getting rid of the body lift. I'm not>> really happy with where the C of G is now (I'm talking about off-roading>> at extreme angles, not daily driving (for they guy who is worried about>> flipping his car because of putting on bigger tires)) That's why I'm>> anxious to get my wider rims, and tires...it'll lower my Center of>> Gravity just a bit more. Plus, I'm really happy with the trucks>> performance as it is.>> Well, it won't lower the CoG, but yeah, I know what you mean.> Why won't it? You spread your feet apart, take a wider stance, aren't you harder to knock over? Same for the tires...wider rim, wider tire will give a wider stance. Possibly off set rims too? What do ya think? Scott - -- Scott A. Wilson __o __o __o __o Santa Clara, CA _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ swilson@pacbell.net (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:27:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Body lift or no lift? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>> You know, if you plan to do a suspension lift anyway, you might want to>> consider something larger (than 32's), so you don't end up deciding you>> want 33" plus a little later on (as a lot of people, myself included, do)>>> I've thought about it, but I don't want to have to regear. I plan on> keeping my 31" AT's on my SR5 rims, and having 32" MT's on 8.5" rims,> then I can switch for whatever driving I'll be doing. I suppose...but don't say I didn't warn you :) But seriously, I've found that you really don't notice a big change (such that you *really* need gears) until you go larger than 33's. Even my friends tired old carbed 22r would pull fifth with the 33's. Oh yeah, if you do plan to go for that setup, and a suspension lift, make sure that it will work with stock rims. Rancho and the superlift superlink are the only two I know of that do (as I said before).>>> flipping his car because of putting on bigger tires)) That's why I'm>>> anxious to get my wider rims, and tires...it'll lower my Center of>>> Gravity just a bit more. Plus, I'm really happy with the trucks>>> performance as it is.>>>> Well, it won't lower the CoG, but yeah, I know what you mean.>> Why won't it? You spread your feet apart, take a wider stance, aren't> you harder to knock over? Same for the tires...wider rim, wider tire> will give a wider stance. Possibly off set rims too? What do ya think? Well, yeah, wider rims will make your truck more stable (side to side), but your center of gravity will be higher (the tires are taller). But since you've got a wider track, this offsets the CoG, and makes it *feel* like a lower CoG--that's why I said "I know what you mean." __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 1997 08:45:19 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck Subject: cam scam To: PSHENG@SCUACC.SCU.EDU, toy4x4@tlca.org>> PSHENG writes: P> this question is directed to you guys who have used one of those smog P> testing machines at work: can they tell what your cam duration/lift P> are? (in otherwords, is it possible to put in a non-smog-legal cam P> and still pass the test?) Well, I know that my Schneider "RV grind" cam is NOT smog legal, but my 22RE passes the idle HC emissions with flying colors (about 150ppm below limit). This cam is kind of rough at idle, but does a great job of boosting mid range power. I am in Kalifornia, the worst for smog testing. So bottom line, I have passed with this cam, yes. dion `85 4Runner 22RE `86 4x4 PU 22RE Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:52:42 -0700 From: R Carroll Subject: Cancellation To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Please remove me from your mailing list. Thx rc44@gte.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:06:17 +0100 From: Denis Andolfo Subject: Cockpit mistery To: toy4x4@tlca.org On the 4runner center cockpit just over the a/c direction controls and under the air holes, there's a plastic cut that seems like a little drawer, but it doesn't move nor comes over !!! What's that ?? How does it work !??! - -- Visit my site at : http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/7855/index.html or e-mail me at : musicdenis@geocities.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:37:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Geiger Subject: Cockpit mistery To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> On the 4runner center cockpit just over the a/c direction controls and> under the air holes, there's a plastic cut that seems like a little> drawer, but it doesn't move nor comes over !!! On some trucks this is the cup holder. If you don't have one there you could buy a new dash face that does. Chis Geiger '93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:39:32 -0400 From: djstracher@bbn.com (David Stracher) Subject: Cockpit mistery To: Toy4x4@tlca.org It's a cup holder, just pull it out like a drawer. Dave Stracher djstracher@bbn.com>On the 4runner center cockpit just over the a/c direction controls and>under the air holes, there's a plastic cut that seems like a little>drawer, but it doesn't move nor comes over !!!>What's that ??>How does it work !??!>-->Visit my site at :>http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/7855/index.html>or e-mail me at :>musicdenis@geocities.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:23:45 -0700 From: Eric Johnson Subject: Diff drain bolt size? To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'" After changing my engine oil (and imitating Hazelwood in my garage) I went to change the oil in my rear diff last night and begin work on a breather (using the Nissan parts that John Skaggs told us about) when I realized that I don't have a wrench or socket large enough for the drain plug. How big is that thing? Must be 25 or 26mm (hmm... 1" maybe?). Even my big 22mm torsion bar wrench wasn't big enough. Anyone know offhand what size socket I'll need? I couldn't get an adjustable wrench in there due to the way the diff housing is extended to protect the bolt (protect it from my clumsy hands!). Please respond to me as well as the list, since I'm back into digest mode. - -- - -- ej@blarg.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 02:59:58 -0400 From: Bob Bascom Subject: Diff drain bolt size? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Eric Johnson wrote:>> After changing my engine oil (and imitating Hazelwood in my garage) I went> to change the oil in my rear diff last night and begin work on a breather> (using the Nissan parts that John Skaggs told us about) when I realized> that I don't have a wrench or socket large enough for the drain plug.>> How big is that thing? Must be 25 or 26mm (hmm... 1" maybe?). Even my big> 22mm torsion bar wrench wasn't big enough. Anyone know offhand what size> socket I'll need? I couldn't get an adjustable wrench in there due to the> way the diff housing is extended to protect the bolt (protect it from my> clumsy hands!).>> Please respond to me as well as the list, since I'm back into digest mode.> --> -- ej@blarg.net I have an '87 4runner. The drain plug is a 24 mm. And incase anyones wondering the companion flang retaining nut is a 30mm at the transfer case. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:13:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Geiger Subject: Diff drain bolt size? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> How big is that Drain plug? 24mm Chris Geiger '93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:52:16 -0500 From: Steve Capuano Subject: Diff drain bolt size? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org At 10:23 AM 4/15/97 -0700, you wrote:>After changing my engine oil (and imitating Hazelwood in my garage) I went>to change the oil in my rear diff last night and begin work on a breather>(using the Nissan parts that John Skaggs told us about) when I realized>that I don't have a wrench or socket large enough for the drain plug.>>How big is that thing? Must be 25 or 26mm (hmm... 1" maybe?). Even my big>22mm torsion bar wrench wasn't big enough. Anyone know offhand what size>socket I'll need? I couldn't get an adjustable wrench in there due to the>way the diff housing is extended to protect the bolt (protect it from my>clumsy hands!).>>Please respond to me as well as the list, since I'm back into digest mode.>-->-- ej@blarg.net> 15/16" socket gets it. Steve Capuano capuano@hypercon.com NRA lifetime member ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:16:47 +1000 (EST) From: Mark Farmer Subject: Double Cabs To: n9646937@scooter.cc.wwu.edu Hi Ross, I've just bought a Dual Cab SR5 here is Aus. It came to about $45,000, with a canopy and the life-time corrosion warranty. The SR5's have an IFS, but the standard still come with a straight axle, and they are about $38,000. How they'd go for changing to LH drive I'm not sure since I haven't pulled the carpet up. Hope this helps a little, - -Mark. Mark Farmer Solution Centre Australia +61 2 9844 5272 Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 09:52:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Ross Raymond Fahlen Subject: Electrical and Double Cabs To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Hello All, I have a very weird problem that hopefully someone can help me with. (Maybe that new trim expert guy). I have an 84 toy w/ power windows. recently I rewired the cb, tightened up a speaker in the door, and installed a reverse light. A couple of days ago I rolled up the window past halfway, and the radio screamed reallly loud, so loud that it hurt my ears. When the window is at half or below I have no problem. Could the speaker be shorting out on the door? I thought that this was it but the scream is so loud, it seems that a short would not cause this. Thank you in advance for a reply, so that I will not be a miracle ear wearer when I am older. Secondly would going to Japan or Australia or South America to pick up like ten of these double cabs be possible? What emissions, stuff would be needed, or would the be exempt since they are from out of town. How much do they cost? Who on the list would be willing to buy one? My summer vacation is coming up, and this would be a fun thing to do. I have an investor might be willing to do this. Thanks Ross Fahlen Western Washington University ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:57:24 -0500 From: Jack Alford Subject: Driveline angles To: toy4x4@tlca.org Steve Hunt wrote:>I've got a problem with drive line vibrations here. I have an '86 4Runner>with a 4" Explorer Pro comp stg II lift. The rear diff has a Detroit>softlocker with new 4:88 gears and bearings. The rear diff is angled upward>from zero plane at 4 degrees. The transfer case is angled down from zero>plane at 4 degrees. when torque is being applied from the engine, there is>no vibration. when torque is being applied from the tires, there is no>vibration. when coasting and the drive line is allowed to float, that's>when the chattering starts up. The slope of the drive line is 17 degrees, If it only does it when your back driving the gears/engine (i.e. coasting), it sounds like a problem in the setup of the gears or the pinon nut is loose. I recently toasted an upper pinon bearing and my truck displayed the same symptoms. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net! jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/ Decatur, AL '86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 06:22:17 -0600 From: "Steve and Carole" Subject: drive line cures??? To: "Toyota Info TLCA" Might swap a driveshaft from the neighbors taco :):) EWong I might just do that :) I have talked to a shop here in town about making a shaft for me with a double cardan joint on it. They quoted me about $225, you all think this is a fair deal? Today I'm gonna ask about warranties, shaft length, j-joint angles...etc, to see if these guys really know what they are doing. One guy here in town who has a drive shaft shop, didn't even know about the u-joint angles. pretty sad. THANK YOU all for your excellent help, I really appreciate all your comments, you all have helped me a great deal. I'll let you all know how it turns out. THANKS AGAIN...:):):) Fourxtoy@thuntek.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:29:34 +0000 From: kristjan@hugvit.is Subject: Engine swap To: toy4x4@tlca.org I've finally had it with the 22RE engine. I wan't more power. As I see it I have two choices, 22RE+turbo or a bigger engine. I've tested a identical car to mine, which is 92 double cab, with a vortex 4.3 v6 but I wasn't happy with the torque and how i worked on the lower rpm's. I have located a chevy 1976 350 from a blaser and it's supposed to work well. Some questions came up and I was wondering if u guys could help me out. Has anyone tested the NWOR V8 kit to install a small block chevy with the toy 5 speed transmission? If I install a small block onto the IFS can I strengthen it or do I need to go for a straight axle swap? Is the 7.5" fron diff strong enaught for the engine. I've got 5.29:1? Can I use the toy power strearing? Can I use the toy brakes? Thanks in advance. kf (__) (oo) Kristjan Finnsson, Software Engineer /-------\/ Hugvit hf, Skutuvogi 1A, IS104 Reykjavik / | || Tel: +354 5688070, Fax: +354 5888057 * ||----|| kristjan@hugvit.is ^^^^ ^^^^ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:48:23 -0400 From: seth45@juno.com (Seth D Lavinder) Subject: Getting to the 22R Oil Filter To: toy4x4@tlca.org After all this talk and all of my questions on changing oil, I finally decided to pop the hood and have a look see. The oil filter looks to me like it is going to be a B?T?H to get to, any one got any tips comments suggestions or just plain directions??????? Seth Lavinder, Amateur Radio Station KB8OKH 1993 Toyota 4X4 Regular Cab Short Bed 22R 2.4L 4-Cyl Pickup TOYOTA - I LOVE WHAT YOU DO FOR ME http://www.wvinter.net/~seth ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:48:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Getting to the 22R Oil Filter To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> After all this talk and all of my questions on changing oil, I finally> decided to pop the hood and have a look see.>> The oil filter looks to me like it is going to be a B?T?H to get to, any> one got any tips comments suggestions or just plain directions??????? They're not bad. Just stand in front of the truck, lean over the radiator, and reach under the throttle body, and unscrew it. If it's real tight a oil filter wrench might help. __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:11:18 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: Getting to the 22R Oil Filter To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Seth D Lavinder wrote:>> After all this talk and all of my questions on changing oil, I finally> decided to pop the hood and have a look see.>> The oil filter looks to me like it is going to be a B?T?H to get to, any> one got any tips comments suggestions or just plain directions???????>> Seth Lavinder, Amateur Radio Station KB8OKH> 1993 Toyota 4X4 Regular Cab Short Bed> 22R 2.4L 4-Cyl Pickup> TOYOTA - I LOVE WHAT YOU DO FOR ME> http://www.wvinter.net/~seth You must have air conditioning! It is possible to access from the top but you have to deal with the intake man. and bracketry. Go for it from underneath. The lube guys I know have a neat trick for the 4x4s. First, they remove the splash pan. Next, upon removing the new filter from the box, they fashion a kind ledge or funnel from the box to direct the oil flow from the filter into the drain pan. I have'nt mastered the trick yet (I don't change oil all day). It looks a bit like an oragami sculpture when they get it all folded up the right way. Good Luck. - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:12:44 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: headers?? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Earle Rother wrote:>> I have the Downey V6 headers in my 88-Xcab. I installed them as soon as> they were out'- it was a knuckle buster and I still have issues- EGR ports> not lining up reed valve port not lining up. I had to bend custom tubing to> get the stuff smog legal. Downey may have fixed these issues by now.> It cost me around $250-300 by the time I got done - I had a custom exhaust> made with the crossover under the transfer case into a single exhaust - I> am now thinking about going dual exhaust/cats.> worth the investment - well I only did the exhaust half you also need to do> the intake half to see much gain - all though I do see some gain in> performance> I dont think you will see Considerable gains - rather subjective : )> I have installed the downey headers on a 4cyl as well - not as much of a> problem no cross over a bolt on-->>>>>>What is the consensus on headers? Worth the investment? Considerable gains?>>>>>>>>Steve Capuano>>capuano@hypercon.com>>>>NRA lifetime member>> Earle Rother> ewr@appsig.com I have driven a '97 4Runner with the soon-to-be-legal Downey (4 into 1) header and noticed an improvement in highway/passing power with only a slight increase in noise. - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:55:01 -0800 From: Scott Wilson Subject: Hollister Pictures To: Toy 4x4 List If anyone would like to see the photos I scanned in from our day trip to Hollister Hills, mail me direct and I'll send 'em. I won't be putting them up on my Web page (actually I don't want to bug Ryan Comber to put them up on the page). Thanks, Scott - -- ***************************************************** Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 88 4Runner SR5 V6 Santa Clara, CA http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:14:12 -0400 From: csn109@psu.edu (Christopher S Neil) Subject: Hubs To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Just yesterday I found one of my hubs locked in while the other wasn't. Is this good?Bad? I am kinda worried. It wasn't making any funny noises or driving unusual or anything, but it just doesn't seem right. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:27:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Geiger Subject: Hubs To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> Just yesterday I found one of my hubs locked in while the other wasn't. Is> this good? If you have an open front diff then don't worry. having one locked hub is like having ADD system. One front half shaft is conected to the diff. The diff just spins around. You can drive for years like this without hurting anything. Chris Geiger '93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:33:55 EDT From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin) Subject: Hubs To: Toy4x4@tlca.org I have AISIN hubs and I was wondering if this is OEM? I did not purchase this truck new in 1981 Matt Chapin matt877@juno.com 81' 4x4 SR5 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:46:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Hubs To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> Just yesterday I found one of my hubs locked in while the other wasn't. Is> this good?Bad? I am kinda worried. It wasn't making any funny noises or> driving unusual or anything, but it just doesn't seem right. It's not really good, but no, it won't really hurt anything. Keep in mind that that's kinda how the automatic disconect setups work--just unlocks one side (though it's up in the axle, buy the diff, not at the hub). __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:59:12 -0700 From: Locke Christman Subject: Hubs To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" >---------->From: matt877@juno.com[SMTP:matt877@juno.com]>Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 1997 10:33 AM>To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>Subject: Re: Hubs>>I have AISIN hubs and I was wondering if this is OEM? I did not purchase>this truck new in 1981>>Matt Chapin>matt877@juno.com>81' 4x4 SR5 Yes they are.> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:25:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Valentine Subject: just for the record To: Toy4x4@tlca.org 30=31.578 40=42.104 70=73.682 75=78.945 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:01:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Valentine Subject: just for the record To: Toy4x4@tlca.org But keep in mind, that's to *go* 30mph (actual) your speedo needs to say 31.5 If your speedo says 30mph, you are really only going about 28.5 make sense? No, I don't think that's right??? Seems to me if you've installed larger tires, now they are turning fewer revolutions which would give you a slower reading on your speedo. Am I missing something here? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:07:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: just for the record To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> But keep in mind, that's to *go* 30mph (actual) your speedo needs to say> 31.5 If your speedo says 30mph, you are really only going about 28.5>> make sense?>> No, I don't think that's right??? Seems to me if you've installed larger> tires, now they are turning fewer revolutions which would give you a> slower reading on your speedo. Am I missing something here? Yeah, I know, I mixed it up (too anxious about the new truck I guess..) With bigger tires, the speedometer reads low. Sorry about that. __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:57:35 -0500 From: Jack Alford Subject: K&N Filters To: toy4x4@tlca.org Here's my .02 on K&N filters, take it for what it's worth. If you're not racing your truck/car/whatever (i.e. WOT - Wide Open Throttle) most all of the time, a K&N filter isn't worth the money, it's just a hassle to keep clean. I run FRAM air filters and happily just throw the old, dirty filter away. I've had K&N's on two diff. vehicles, neither of which saw a noticable power or mileage improvement. And I do believe that they DO let particles of dirt into the engine. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net! jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/ Decatur, AL '86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:33:55 EDT From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin) Subject: K&N Filters To: Toy4x4@tlca.org so what if you have to clean the filter more. you have gained more power and still don't have to buy a new filter. Matt Chapin matt877@juno.com 81' 4x4 SR5 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 02:07:37 -0700 From: Frank Di Giovanni Subject: K&N Filters To: Toy4x4@tlca.org At 09:57 AM 4/15/97 -0500, you wrote:>Here's my .02 on K&N filters, take it for what it's worth. If you're not>racing your truck/car/whatever (i.e. WOT - Wide Open Throttle) most all of>the time,>a K&N filter isn't worth the money, it's just a hassle to keep clean. I run>FRAM air filters and happily just throw the old, dirty filter away. I've had>K&N's on two diff. vehicles, neither of which saw a noticable power>or mileage improvement. And I do believe that they DO let particles of>dirt into the engine. I'm sorry Jack I have to disagree. Up here in Canada a yoda filter ia $20 can. for the V6, replacing it 2 times a year( for dirt roads) it works out to $40 not including taxes. A K&N filter was $49 Can. when I bought it 1.5 years ago, and I have washed it twice now and reoiled it. I'll probably use it for the life of the truck. Does anybody know how long the filters last before they deteriorate (sp) ? _______________________________________________________ Frank Di Giovanni shoalseeker@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Baja/1228/pics.html 1990 Toyota 4 Runner SR5 V6 4X4 2dr. BFG All-Terrains,Trailmaster Invader sk,Warn combo winch bumper, Smittybuilt nerfbars, k&n air filter, Hi-lift jack, cb radio, wilson antenna, Aurora ignition, differental breathers ________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:50:20 -0400 From: "penny" Subject: manual tranny strength To: Which gear box is superior 4 speed or 5 speed ? i thought the 5 speed manual trans was weaker am i wrong? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:10:34 -0700 From: Locke Christman Subject: manual tranny strength To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" >>Which gear box is superior 4 speed or 5 speed ? i thought the 5 speed>manual trans was weaker am i wrong? The early ('79-'83) 4 speeds are reliable behind the 4 cylinder but lack the strength for V6 or V8 engine conversions. The 5 speeds of this same vintage had an undersized bearing on the 5th/reverse shaft that would tend to wear out quickly and possibly cause damage to other components. I think that Nick (on this list) has much first hand experience with this. Someone wrote that this problem is correctable by machining the housing to accept a larger bearing but this prospect seems like it would be expensive. (does anyone know about this??) The '84 and up 5 speeds are good transmissions and (I think) suitable for V6 conversions. They may be OK for V8's (??) but most of the kits seem to require a change to a domestic automatic, 4 or 5 speed. Locke lac@feico.com>>> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:50:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: manual tranny strength To: Toy4x4@tlca.org>>Which gear box is superior 4 speed or 5 speed ? i thought the 5 speed>>manual trans was weaker am i wrong?>> The early ('79-'83) 4 speeds are reliable behind the 4 cylinder but lack> the strength for V6 or V8 engine conversions. I heard those were week too. I looked at this one '79 (really, really nice) with a 20r/4spd, and the guy said he'd had the tranny rebuilt twice so far, with only 150,000 miles or so. __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 09:27:06 -0800 From: joel.cooper@lvvwd.com Subject: No subject given To: The following truck is For Sale: 94 Extra Cab DX 4 x 4, maroon in color 41,000 Miles, V6/3.0 liter engine New Clutch Hose, Auto Locking Hubs (ADD) 5 speed, 31 " Michelin LTX tires (Low miles on tires) New KYB shocks and steering stabilizer, dual front and single rear Detroit soft locker in rear axle K and N air Filter Full gauge cluster, Tachometer, Amp, Oil, Water, fuel Air Conditioning, Power steering, Cruise control, Tilt steering wheel Alarm with two remotes, CD Player with 6 speakers, Sliding Rear window Bed Liner, Tinted windows, SmittyBuilt Nerf Bars, Factory bumper with trailer hitch, Roll bar with 5 lights, bug deflector shield, new Sears Die Hard battery $15,900.00 If anyone is interested email me at joel.cooper@lvvwd.com or you can call me at 702.258.3830 pst 8am - 5pm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:14:16 -0400 From: djstracher@bbn.com (David Stracher) Subject: O2 Sensor To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Just brought my 93 Forerunner 3vz in for a new short block due to damage caused by a blown head gasket. While the car was at the dealer, I figured I would have them put in a new O2 sensor. The manual calls for replacement at 80,000 miles and the owner manual clearly states that Toyota would do this for free (parts and labor). The dealer claims that this only applies in California (even though the manual clearly states "except CA"). Although, they have stated that they would check with Toyota USA Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a TSB or some other memo I can steer the dealer towards. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance, Dave Stracher djstracher@bbn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:46:31 -0800 From: Scott Wilson Subject: O2 Sensor To: Toy4x4@tlca.org David Stracher wrote:>> Just brought my 93 Forerunner 3vz in for a new short block due to damage> caused by a blown head gasket. While the car was at the dealer, I figured I> would have them put in a new O2 sensor. The manual calls for replacement at> 80,000 miles and the owner manual clearly states that Toyota would do this> for free (parts and labor).>> The dealer claims that this only applies in California (even though the> manual clearly states "except CA"). Although, they have stated that they> would check with Toyota USA>> Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a TSB or some other memo> I can steer the dealer towards. I replaced mine about 2 months ago when it went out. I also showed the dealer what it said about the free O2 sensor in the manual. They told me that I was the first person to ever show that to them, and that it didn't apply to CA vehicles because of the "except CA" like you mentioned. I had to shell out the $$$ myself. Stick it to 'em, you've got it in black and white. Scott - -- ***************************************************** Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 88 4Runner SR5 V6 Santa Clara, CA http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:55:44 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: O2 Sensor To: Toy4x4@tlca.org David Stracher wrote:>> Just brought my 93 Forerunner 3vz in for a new short block due to damage> caused by a blown head gasket. While the car was at the dealer, I figured I> would have them put in a new O2 sensor. The manual calls for replacement at> 80,000 miles and the owner manual clearly states that Toyota would do this> for free (parts and labor).>> The dealer claims that this only applies in California (even though the> manual clearly states "except CA"). Although, they have stated that they> would check with Toyota USA>> Has anyone had any experience with this? Is there a TSB or some other memo> I can steer the dealer towards.>> Any help would be appreciated.>> Thanks in advance,>> Dave Stracher> djstracher@bbn.com No TSB on this subject, just show them your Owner's Guide/Maintenance Booklet. It says so right there (I believe there is even a listing in the table of contents--"Free oxygen sensor replacement." California has different requirements for emissions control device warranties, depending on wether the vehicle was originally certified for 50, 70, or 100,000 mile durability standards. - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:30:38 -0400 From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles" Subject: oil changes at 3000 miles To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Scott Wilson wrote:>> R. W. 'Butch' Stiles wrote:>>> There are two things you are dealing with, 1) the breakdown of the>> additives, note that I say additives, because the oil itself does NOT>> break down! 2) The amount of contaminants in the oil. As the oil is run>> through the engine it is continuously being diluted by gasoline and>> other junk it comes in contact with. The oil change interval is actually>> 3 months, this being the time that the contaminants reach unacceptable>> levels, no matter how many miles you drive.>> Now if you figure the national average of 12000 miles per year, VIOLA,>> you get an oil change interval of 3000 miles. I can't remember where>> this came from but I read it someplace and it stuck with me.>> The thing to remember is that the contaminants are the enemy and getting>> them out of the motor is the best thing you can do.>> Butch, I thought 12,000(miles) divided by 3(months) => 4,000(miles)>> Scott> --> *****************************************************> Scott Wilson TLCA #5261> 88 4Runner SR5 V6> Santa Clara, CA> http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm Well, at least I got a rise out of somebody! If you change oil every 3 months you'll be changing it 4 times a year. Maybe it's the new math, but I learned that 4 went into 12 three times when I went to school all those years ago. So there you have it, the elusive 3000 miles! Ta Da !! Remember I said it was not mileage, but a time interval. That's all for the lecture, I will now entertain questions. ...yes, you in the back... Butch Stiles rokitman@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:20:20 -0700 From: rmurray@gvn.net (Rick Murray) Subject: oil changes at 3000 miles To: TOY4X4@TLCA.ORG My girlfriend has a '90 Chevy extra cab pickup with a 350 and auto. She (actually her ex-husband) always changed the oil and filter every 3000 miles, much more than I would have. After over 100,000 miles, it runs like a top and get around 18+ mpg on the highway. Maybe there's something to it. ################################################################## Rick Murray 84 Toyota 4Runner SR5 rmurray@gvn.net stock 22R motor ; 3" ProComp Lift http://www.gvn.net/~rmurray/ 8" steel rims; 33" BFG M/T Rancho Cordova, Ca. 4.88 gears; Marlin TCase #67 ; TRD LSD ################################################################## ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:32:04 -0700 From: "Richard Aguinsky" Subject: PCV To: capuano@hypercon.com, Toy4x4@tlca.org steve wrote I did the PCV also and I could definitely feel the smoothness come back. Not that it was rough though. Steve Capuano capuano@hypercon.com NRA lifetime member i noticed thay my 4 rnr doesn't run smooth when i press the accelerator slowly, i was wondering if that is the pcv, how do you replace it? is it expensive? can i use the kragen ones? rich '87 4 runner 187000 miles young ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:15:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Albrecht Subject: Question - manual transmission probs To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I accidentaly erased the original e-mail. Just for the record I do not> think that the master cylinder is adjustable that's the reason is> hydraulic. Something adjustable would be a clutch cable for a nissan> sentra or a honda civic. The hydraulic system itself is not adjustable, but the pedal height is. Adjusting the pedal height does a similar thing to adjusting the clutch cable on other cars/trucks. __ Jonathan Albrecht albr9619@uidaho.edu http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:43:50 -0600 From: Brian Smillie Subject: Rancho RS9000 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org I am looking for new shocks and am interested in the Rancho RS9000's because of there ajustability. And with the remote unit I think it would be handy. Is there anyone that has used these shocks or anything like them, any likes dislikes. They cost alot but I want to go for the best if that is what they are. Thanks for any responce. Derek Luymes arta@agt.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:08:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Geiger Subject: Rancho RS9000 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> RS9000's? Got them, like them. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:01:51 +0000 From: *************** P A U L N G U Y E N *************** Subject: Rancho RS9000's Cheap. To: TOYOTA LIST just to let all you guys know, rancho is having there buy three get on free deal goin on, so RS9000's are pretty cheap right now... around $180 for 4 at 4whl parts wholesalers... i think. -paul Elmo says hi. __ __ .' '.' `. _.-| o | o |-._ .~ `.__.'.__.'^ ~. .~ ^ / \ ^ ~. \-._^ ^| | ^_.-/ `\ `-._ \___/ ^_.-' /' `\_ `--...--' /' `-.._______..-' /\ /\ __/ \__ | |/ /_ .'^ ^ `. .' `__\ .' ^ ^ `.__.'^ .\ \ .' ^ . ^ . ^ .' \/ / / ^ \'.__.' | ^ /| ^ | ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:57:32 -0500 From: Jack Alford Subject: Rear droop To: toy4x4@tlca.org Jim Poston wrote:> I have a '90 Xtracab 4WD, and the rear is definitely sagging. I>have carried a camper a few weeks in the last year, but other than>that no load abuse (dropping loader buckets full of rocks from a>height of 12 feet like in the Chevy commercials). Just the>occasional fully-loaded furniture move, or some firewood or dirt. Jim, it depends on if your more concerned with leveling the truck or adding load carrying capacity ? If it's leveling the truck, a set of extended shackles should fix the problem and if it's load carrying capacity then I'd go for one of the long add-a-leafs as an inexpensive fix. Everytime I see that Chevy commerical you refer to it makes me think of a humorous story a friend of mine told me about one of his neighbors. The neighbor in question had been removing some trees from his front yard and was getting tired from the 'cut the tree down/cut the tree up/load the pieces of tree in the truck' routine he had been going through. So he had topped out a quite large, dead oak tree with a base diameter of approx. 4 feet! The neighbor decided he'd expedite matters and just fell the remaining piece of tree into the bed of his trusty F*rd pickup. He backed the pickup into place, fired up the chain saw and cut the remaining tree down. Those of you who've ever cut down trees before are probably visuallizing how much a tree like that weighs and the results of such an act. But stay with me, it's better than you can imagine! Well the tree, which weighed quite a hefty amount with it's diameter of approx. 4 feet., which would just let the tree fit into the bed of the truck (the neighbor measured to be sure!) and approx. 10 feet tall fell in to the bed of the truck just like the neighbor had planned. BUT ... the extreme weight of the tree and sudden shock of that weight had caused the rear axle to break in half, which also caused the parking brake to fail! All of this weight in the bed of the truck caused the truck to do a wheelie. Well, to top all of the neighbors newly acquired problems off, the truck is parked on a slight hill (as mentioned earlier, the parking brake cable also broke when the axle housing broke) and parked at the bottom of this slight hill in their lower driveway was his wife's Cadillac, which she just washed incidentally. Well, you've probably played the scenario out in your head by now: the truck doing a wheelie using the large tree as a wheelie bar, heads down the slight hill gaining speed with the weight of the several ton tree in the bed of the truck and SLAMS into his wife's cadillac. To the best of my knowledge this is a TRUE story ... ----------------------------------------------------------------- Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net! jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/ Decatur, AL '86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:48:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Valentine Subject: Rear droop To: Toy4x4@tlca.org I had my springs re-arched for my '88 4Runner. When a qualified shop does this they often add another leaf to the set. The re-arching involves "flatting out" your original springs. I heard that the re-arching process weakens the springs and is why they must add another leaf. I've been happy with mine so far (about 2.5 years). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:37:40 -0400 From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com Subject: safety wire To: " - (052)toy4x4 (a) tlca.org" , Ed Ruf: (This is NOT intended as a flame - just an observation based on too may readings of Carroll Smith) While I agree that safety wire can address many "problems" with respect to loosening bolts - this is an area where poor engineering can not be made up by a "safety net". The timing chain sprocket adjustable via "slip" design appears to have been done so that 1) adjusting is "easy" (loosen and slide) 2) adjusting can be done w/o removing the sprocket from the cam However - this means that the bolts are being asked to do something that they were not designed to do. Bolts are in general designed to clamp in tension. They are NOT supposed to be used as "trunions/axles" They are NOT supposed to hold slip movement (thats what dowels are for) While special bolts can be designed for that purpose, they are rare and expensive. (i.e. flywheel bolts hold both tension and slip, but have "slotted" heads on high HP applications (F*ord uses a proper bolt in this app)) (i.e. rod end bearings are supported in dual shear using *aircraft* trunion bolts; designed specifically for this application - to be used as "axles") (i.e. single shear is usually asking for trouble - but can be compensated for) So - in the timing chain designed used by LC (AFAIK) - the bolts are asked to 1 - "located" the wheel center to center 2 - hold the wheel from rotation purely by clamping force 3 - clamp the wheel to the cam by tension I would expect #2 to fail - and safety wire will NOT help in that case. As an example - the clutch cover is held in position from "spinning" by dowels, the bolts merely keep the cover on the dowels The TRD timing chain used a locator bolt into threaded inserts - even if the bolts did loosen - it could not spin until after it broke the bolts. Not the greatest - but still better than allowing spin after the bolts loosen. Safety wire can help retain the bolts and prevent them from backing out completely; I think that asking safety wire to retain the torque setting on the two pieces being clamped (vs the position setting of the bolt in relation to the threads) is a poor engineering choice. As an example - consider the heat-expand / cool-conract cycles that the two pieces undergo - will the clamping force be consistent enough to prevent the two pieces from slipping? Anyway - dems my views....... (hope you all weren't distracted by that ramble) EWong ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:17:38 From: Ed Ruf Subject: safety wire To: Toy4x4@tlca.org AT 10:37 4/15/97 -0400, Ed.Wong@astramerck.com wrote:>Ed Ruf:>>(This is NOT intended as a flame - just an observation based on too may>readings of Carroll Smith) Not taken as so. Howver, not need to cc: a copy directly, Once I've decided participate in the list, I do try to look at everything and make a conscious effort to follow the threads I've replied to.>While I agree that safety wire can address many "problems" with respect to>loosening bolts - this is an area where poor engineering can not be made>up by a "safety net".>>The timing chain sprocket adjustable via "slip" design appears to have en>done so that>1) adjusting is "easy" (loosen and slide)>2) adjusting can be done w/o removing the sprocket from the cam My guess would be, also cheap to manufacture was a key requirement.>However - this means that the bolts are being asked to do>something that they were not designed to do.>>Bolts are in general designed to clamp in tension.>They are NOT supposed to be used as "trunions/axles">They are NOT supposed to hold slip movement (thats what dowels are for)>>While special bolts can be designed for that purpose, they are rare and>expensive.>(i.e. flywheel bolts hold both tension and slip, but have "slotted" heads> on high HP applications (F*ord uses a proper bolt in this app))>(i.e. rod end bearings are supported in dual shear using *aircraft* trunion>bolts;>designed specifically for this application - to be used as "axles")>(i.e. single shear is usually asking for trouble - but can be compensated for)>>So - in the timing chain designed used by LC (AFAIK) - the bolts are asked to>1 - "located" the wheel center to center>2 - hold the wheel from rotation purely by clamping force>3 - clamp the wheel to the cam by tension>>I would expect #2 to fail - and safety wire will NOT help in that case.>>As an example - the clutch cover is held in position from "spinning" by dowels,>the bolts merely keep the cover on the dowels>>The TRD timing chain used a locator bolt into threaded inserts - even if the>bolts did loosen - it could not spin until after it broke the bolts.>Not the greatest - but still better than allowing spin after the bolts osen.>>Safety wire can help retain the bolts and prevent them from backing>out completely; I think that asking safety wire to retain the torque setting>on the two pieces being clamped (vs the position setting of the>bolt in relation to the threads) is a poor engineering choice. I didn't say to use saftey wire to maintain the tension, there are other easier ways to do this, such as with properly designed bellville washers.>>As an example - consider the heat-expand / cool-conract cycles that the>two pieces undergo - will the clamping force be consistent enough>to prevent the two pieces from slipping?>>Anyway - dems my views....... (hope you all weren't distracted by that ramble) Well, specifically I was addressing, "If the bolts _loosen_ - the cam timing "slips"." I agree with pretty much everything else you say. Not having my LC catague at hand I can't comment on the centering issue. If so, that's just dumb. Now, I'm not saying the TRD design isn't better. But, one can design this type of connection, if you MUST have the requir ent for adjustability without removing sprocket from the cam and keep costs down. Specialty bolts, while not found at the local hardware store are available, whereas a custom sprocket isn't. Also, keeping proper tension on bolted connections in extreme thermal environments isn't impossible, one just has to be aware of this design requirement. Now, would I design it this way? I don't know. I think I'd look for something in between, but not having given this particular problem a lot of thought..... I don't know what solution I'd come to. Ed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:58:32 -0600 From: rob and karen boyle Subject: shackles and procomp 85 4RUNNER To: toy4x4@tlca.org thank you for your responce, Jay Kopycinski. I had allready made the lift shackles before I got your responce. Mine are close to what you suggested. I used 2''x 5/16 stock w/ braces and holes at 6.5 '' on center. 3/4 bolts fit tite in the new energy bushings. the truck sits dead level. (thats pro comp 4'' lift up front, black diamond add a leafs in back) the draw back I noticed is reduced departure angle. the Pro Comp lift was a breeze to install. I think a torch and a welder made it go much faster. removing the old springs seemed impossible, until we heated them up enough to melt the old bushings. the new springs went right on. another time saver was welding on the new bump stop extenders, rather then drilling and bolting.I was also able to save time on the brake line relocate. the kit gives you little pieces of angle iron to bolt on a little lower than the stock mounting point. to save the hassle of loosening those brake line fittings i sawsalled them off and remounted them lower with a little weld. the ride is great with the new lift, tracks straight as an arrow. not to hard a ride, certainly better than those stock front springs always bottoming out on the bump stops. toyota's rule ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 1997 08:56:27 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck Subject: Speedo/Odometer accuracy (was: just for the record) To: Jonathan Albrecht , toy4x4@tlca.org>> Jonathan Albrecht writes:>> Every one who has posted appeared to be saying that you can take>> readings off the *odometer* using known accurate distances and therefore>> calculate mathematically how much off your *speedometer* readings are.>> I don't believe this is accurate information and here is why. JA> I'm not sure that I agree. Namely where you say that JA> (paraphrasing) "the speedo has never been the same percentage off JA> as the odometer." At least on the toyota's, both the speedo and JA> the odometer are 'powered' off of the speedometer cable. Sure JA> they use different methods (the odo is gears, and the speedo uses JA> a magnetic setup), but the end effect should be the same: If you JA> put on larger tires (say 10% larger) then the speedometer cable JA> itself will spin 10% slower for any given wheel speed. If the JA> cable spins 10% slower, than the odo and speedo will read 10% JA> lower. The only way they wouldn't is if the speedo or odometer JA> aren't accurate (ie, broken). Well, you will just have to argue that one with the pros. Right after I posted my question/statement, I called the speedo shop to which I referred and asked them this very question. Their answer is that the realtionship in accuracy between odometer and speedometer is not "fixed". To begin with, you are right, the gearing drives the cable at the same speed for both speedo and odo, but there is where the connection stops. They agree with my assessment that the speedometer is "disconnected" from the odometer with regards to accuracy and can be different in different ranges because the needle is driven magnetically. And, yes, to a large extent, you are right, that if they do not track, then the "speedometer is broken". My point was, that people are making the assumption that there is an exact mathematical correlation, and in reality, if there is any small amount of inaccuracy in the speedometer, the mathematical equation approach to speed % calculation will not work. For example, there could be a small amount of dirt embedded grease in one section of the travel of the speedometer needle that causes a certain section of speed range to be off 20% different from the rest of the range. To begin with, my question/statement was just a theory, now after talking to a pro, I believe it to be fact. dion `85 4Runner 22RE `86 4x4 PU 22RE Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 14:55:00 -0500 From: Rosenberger Bud Subject: Speedo Inaccuracies To: "toy4x4@tlca.org" Hi all! I can help with the speedo question and then I have a few of my own. Dion is correct in his statement"...the odometer is a physical connection turning gears at a predetermined ratio, but the speedometer is magnetically coupled, and at different areas through the travel of the needle, the magnetic coupling may be different due to many factors." The problem that plagues owners of vehicles that can endure for high miles and years [ :) ] is that over time, the needle becomes magnetized and the drive disc looses some of it's magnetism. It will always "loose speed" (read slower) than you are going. The NY State Police pointed this out to me recently :( I have 32" BFG ATs and was going 55 (per the Speedo) but was clocked at 67! He was real decent and told me to get it checked and I could get the ticket reduced to a "faulty equipment", non-moving violation. I had the speedo shop tell me where 30, 40, 55 were and I just marked the gauge with a marker. It sure is tough tho looking at 44 on the speedo to go 55! If it read 90, I'd feel much better! I have a question for all and Scott(?) in particular. How do you move the front axle 1" forward and why? I assume for tire clearance? Are there any ill affects to doing this? I get that "mudflaprubbingonthebigtires" sound at full lock sometimes and an extra inch would help! I plan on new springs(3 " lift) this summer so maybe it doesn't matter. Thanks to all for your help! Bud 85 SR5 PU, 32" BFG ATs on 8" rims ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:37:54 -0400 From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles" Subject: starting woes To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Chad D. Zimmer wrote:>> Sometimes when I try to start my 89 pickup it clicks instead of> engaging the starter. Usually after a few tries it will start up. Does> this sound like the selenoid or the starter itself. Where is the> selenoid and how hard is it to replace? How hard is the starter to> replace? Thanks for info. Chad, I ren into this same thing with my '79 Celica. It turned out there was carbon build-up on the solenoid contacts causing difficulty in making contact. I just cleaned them with a wire brush and the trouble went away. YMMV. Butch Stiles rokitman@erols.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:09:45 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: starting woes To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Chad D. Zimmer wrote:>> Sometimes when I try to start my 89 pickup it clicks instead of> engaging the starter. Usually after a few tries it will start up. Does> this sound like the selenoid or the starter itself. Where is the> selenoid and how hard is it to replace? How hard is the starter to> replace? Thanks for info. Check the clutch-start system first. Try to start the truck with the clutch safety cancelled. If this system works... Sounds like it is starter time. I hate to say it but it almost makes more sense to outright buy a new (or "factory authorized") rebuilt Toyota starter as opposed to an overhaul. Considering the mileage on the vehicle in particular and the time required to do the job right, why hassle? Toyota used to encourage overhauls on almost everything, including warranty items (water pumps, too!) The soleniod is mounted directly on the starter. I believe a rebult from Toyota is around $140.00. Check locally. These are VERY reliable units and promise to give many years of service. To remove the starter (super easy on a 4x4): Disconnect (-) batt. term. Unplug all starter connections Remove the connector at the (+) batt. cable at the starter Remove top nut and lower bolt Remove starter through top of engine compartment Access to the bolts may be made easier through the wheel wells. Did I leave anything out, anyone? Its getting kind of late and I need to get up at 0500. - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:23:56 -0500 (CDT) From: Sam Houston Subject: Stupid Truck Stories (was Re: Rear droop) To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Okay Jack, you've opened up a can of worms .... A friend of mine in Dalton, Georgia (yes you can make North Georgia jokes) was building a cross tie retaining yard at his house. So he jumps into his F--d F350 dually and runs down to the Home shop and buys 15 cross ties. Now comes the good part, some well-meaning Joe driving the forktruck decides to pull up beside the truck and dump the cross ties in the bed rather than forking them the other way and placing them in the truck from behind or off loading the ties from the forklift by hand. (Anybody that's loaded cross ties will tell you that they are $^%#@!@!& heavy!) Well the road surface is gravel and not flat, and the forks are wet, and the cross tied have lots of slippery preservative on them .. you can probably follow what happens next ... the whole load of 15 cross ties falls off the forks from about 6 feet over the bed of the truck and comes crashing into the truck. Luckily, no axle damage is done, but the bed is totally demolished to the extent that the blue flamed wrench has to be used on the wheel wells, bed sides and fenders so that my friend can drive the truck to the body shop. Anybody care to guess what a new bed costs for an F350 dually. >expedite matters and just fell the remaining piece of tree into the bed of>his trusty F*rd pickup. He backed the pickup into place, fired up the chain saw>and cut the remaining tree down. >Well, you've probably>played the scenario out in your head by now: the truck doing a wheelie using>the large tree as a wheelie bar, heads down the slight hill gaining speed>with the weight of the several ton tree in the bed of the truck and SLAMS>into his wife's cadillac. Sam Houston shouston@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ Date: 15 Apr 1997 09:03:05 -0700 From: Dion Hollenbeck Subject: Subject: Speedo/Odometer accuracy (was: just for the record) To: grandall@tmac.com, toy4x4@tlca.org>> grandall writes: GR> Dion's comments about the differences between the way the odometer GR> and speedometer are coupled is correct. The speedometer can't GR> have a direct coupling because it needs to run, or slip, in GR> reverse among other things. This leads to differences between the GR> odometer and speedometer errors. The slippage is not constant GR> over the speed ranges. Dion, I'd be interested in hearing what GR> typical percentages you found between them. I will try to look these up. Many of these percentages off have been in cars which I no longer own, so that will be impossible. GR> I've timed a few speedometers over measured miles and found them GR> to be accurate enough for normal driving, I have to agree with this in spite of what I said, I was just commenting on what I believed to be an erroneous assumption about how speed and mileage "were coupled". Yes, for all practical purposes, making assumptions about speedometer accuracy from odometer accuracy will get you in the ballpark, but is not necessarily "accurate". Hey, gimme a break, I am a software engineer, and I don't live with "hand grenade accuracy" or shades of grey. In my workaday world, *everything* is black and white and I made a black/white type of comment. B-} Grey does work! dion `85 4Runner 22RE `86 4x4 PU 22RE Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com http://www.vigra.com/~hollen Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 97 08:48:54 CST From: "Brian Gallus" Subject: Timing and clutch To: Toy4x4@tlca.org I was working on the ole Runner last night, getting everything ready for a weekend of wheeling. Thought I should check the timing (haven't done so yet - had the truck 3 months). Jumped the check block, hooked up the timing light, marked the notche with white paint and WHOA!!!!!! The VICA tag says 5 degrees, but it looked like about 35 degrees!!!! Stopped and double checked to see what I did wrong, rechecked and got the same results! Adjusted to 5 degrees and the thing would do no more than idle, so I put everything back where I found it. It has a bit of a miss on idle but otherwise runs great and doesn't ping at all. I have recently replaced plugs, wires (both Splitfire.. wanted to try the wires), cap and rotor, filter, pcv, etc. Haven't yet replaced the coil. Anyway, is it possible that the original owner had the timing belt replaced and it wasn't indexed properly? Any other ideas? As mentioned, it runs fine, but I have absolutely no way to tell what the timing is set at. Also, while checking the timing I noticed another unusual little item. Put the tranny in nutrual and let out the clutch only to hear a strange clicking sound coming from the bell-housing. The sound goes away with the cluth pedal pushed in, or even if the pedal is pushed down 3/8" - enough to remove all of the "slack" in the system. I have not bled the system yet, and as far as I know, everything is stock. Thanks in advance... Brian Gallus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:51:48 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: Timing and clutch To: Toy4x4@tlca.org Brian Gallus wrote:>> I was working on the ole Runner last night, getting everything ready> for a weekend of wheeling. Thought I should check the timing (haven't> done so yet - had the truck 3 months). Jumped the check block, hooked> up the timing light, marked the notche with white paint and WHOA!!!!!!> The VICA tag says 5 degrees, but it looked like about 35 degrees!!!!> Stopped and double checked to see what I did wrong, rechecked and got> the same results! Adjusted to 5 degrees and the thing would do no> more than idle, so I put everything back where I found it. It has a> bit of a miss on idle but otherwise runs great and doesn't ping at> all. I have recently replaced plugs, wires (both Splitfire.. wanted> to try the wires), cap and rotor, filter, pcv, etc. Haven't yet> replaced the coil.>> Anyway, is it possible that the original owner had the timing belt> replaced and it wasn't indexed properly? Any other ideas? As> mentioned, it runs fine, but I have absolutely no way to tell what the> timing is set at.>> Also, while checking the timing I noticed another unusual little item.> Put the tranny in nutrual and let out the clutch only to hear a> strange clicking sound coming from the bell-housing. The sound goes> away with the cluth pedal pushed in, or even if the pedal is pushed> down 3/8" - enough to remove all of the "slack" in the system. I have> not bled the system yet, and as far as I know, everything is stock.>> Thanks in advance...> Brian Gallus Check the adjustment of the Throttle Position Sensor. If the sensor is out of limits or malfunctioning, it can make setting the timing impossible. Since you mentioned a timing BELT, I assume this is a 3VZ-E 3.0L V6, right? The clicking noise is quite possibly a dry or mis-adjusted throwout bearing--either the bearing is not properly installed on the fork, the ball-stud pivot for the fork is worn, or the fork may be cracked. It could also be a bad input shaft bearing but this would make more of a light knock. - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:03:06 -0800 From: Scott Wilson Subject: To Poly or not to Poly To: Toy4x4@tlca.org spadams@FORTLEWIS.EDU wrote: also what is the general consensus on poly bushing, do they> hold up as the ads say they do? I've had great luck, as have many people I've talked to, with poly urethane. Poly bushings on leaf springs absorb much more shock than rubber, and leave you with a smoother ride. It's much firmer than rubber, so if you want to improve your ON-road handling poly on the anti-sway bar is the way to go. (this may hinder you off road though, which is why I remove my anti-sway bar when I know I'll be going off-road) I have not noticed any loss of articulation from the poly on my leaf springs, in fact I consider them one of the best improvements I have done to my truck. Scott - -- ***************************************************** Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 88 4Runner SR5 V6 Santa Clara, CA http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:17:20 -0700 From: Gerald Crandall Subject: torque rod To: Toyota 4x4 I recently purchased my 1983 SR5 pickup. It has about a 2 to 3 inch lift. I am currently running 235\70R15. I noticed that the torque rod was disconnected. It lacks about .50 inch of lining up to the mount. Do I need to rotate the axle or can I just lenghten the rod? I am contemplating slightly larger tires , will that affect the position of the torque rod also? If the rod is left disconnected what ill effect will it have? This is a great source of information and thanks for any input. Jerry Crandall Gardnerville, Nevada 1983 SR5 shortbed ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:48:01 -0600 (MDT) From: spadams@FORTLEWIS.EDU Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #130 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org I am compltly new to this list but I have a very frustrating problem with my 90 4runner v6. I can not get the brakes to work very good I have 31's on it I am on my third master I have had all the corners redone with toyota pads all new fluid and power bled 3 times, it is still not very strong, I have done all the tests for the booster and it is fine. when I press the brake pedal it feels normal but it gets to a point and there is no more pressure the pedal just goes tothe floor, it does not feel like leakage in the master but it could be, has this happened to anybody and any ideas, also what is the general consensus on poly bushing, do they hold up as the ads say they do? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:45:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Chris Geiger Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #130 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> I am compltly new to this list but I have a very frustrating problem with> my 90 4runner v6. I can not get the brakes to work very good I have 31's Assuming the master cylinder is good if the brake is going to the floor than one of two things is hapining. 1) there is air in the line that is compressing. 2) there is too much travel in one or more of the break pads. This is most likely in the rear if the auto adjusters are not working. You can also test the master cylinder by putting a bolt into it where the brake lines come out and see if it still goes to the floor. Are you loosing any fluid on the ground ? Did you blead the rear valve? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:48:21 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #130 To: Toy4x4@tlca.org spadams@FORTLEWIS.EDU wrote:>> I am compltly new to this list but I have a very frustrating problem with> my 90 4runner v6. I can not get the brakes to work very good I have 31's> on it I am on my third master I have had all the corners redone with> toyota pads all new fluid and power bled 3 times, it is still not very> strong, I have done all the tests for the booster and it is fine. when I> press the brake pedal it feels normal but it gets to a point and there is> no more pressure the pedal just goes tothe floor, it does not feel like> leakage in the master but it could be, has this happened to anybody and> any ideas, also what is the general consensus on poly bushing, do they> hold up as the ads say they do? 1) Make sure the rear brakes are assembled (leading/trailing shoe not switched, if applicable) and adjusted properly. Make sure the auto. adjusters are working. Are the shoes rubbing/hanging-up on the backing plates? Are the drums within specification or at their discard limit? 2) Where are you buying the master cyl(s). from? Are they new or rebuilt? This almost sounds like a case of the M/C bypassing internally. Maybe try a new O.E.M. unit? - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:33:12 -0500 (CDT) From: EJD006@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU Subject: Ventilation Noise? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org First of all, I have been reading this list for months now (after getting a '94 SR5 Runner in October and although this is m)learned a ton and wanted to say thanks. My question has to do with a rather odd gargling noise in the dash. I am assuming it has something to do with the ventilation system, especially since in only occurs when the temp. selector is between hot and cold. You essentially have to have it shoved completely one way or the other to avoid the noise. Also, it happens during acceleration, or more accurately, anytime the engine RPM in raised. Which is to say that at a calm idle, it most often goes into hiding. Just curious if anyone has any ideas or similar experiences, and what I should do to go about fixing it. Once again, thanks to all... Eric Dillenback ejd006@acad.drake.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 10:28:04 -0800 From: Scott Wilson Subject: Ventilation Noise? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org> My question has to do with a rather odd gargling noise in the dash. I am> assuming it has something to do with the ventilation system, especially since> in only occurs when the temp. selector is between hot and cold. You> essentially have to have it shoved completely one way or the other to avoid the> noise. Also, it happens during acceleration, or more accurately, anytime the> engine RPM in raised. Which is to say that at a calm idle, it most often goes> into hiding.>> Just curious if anyone has any ideas or similar experiences, and what I should> do to go about fixing it. Yeah, I've had/got the same thing. It comes and goes. I have found no exact cure for it, but have the correct level of coolant in the radiator will help. After flushing/refilling the coolant in mine I didn't put quite enough back it and it made that noise VERY often. Drove me NUTS! So I brought the coolant up to the correct level and da ta! It is almost completely gone. I still occasionally hear it as I move the temp selector from all the way cold to all the way hot. Hope this is what you wanted to know. Scott - -- ***************************************************** Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 88 4Runner SR5 V6 Santa Clara, CA http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:15:16 -0700 From: James Brink Subject: Ventilation Noise? To: Toy4x4@tlca.org EJD006@ACAD.DRAKE.EDU wrote:>> First of all, I have been reading this list for months now (after getting a> '94 SR5 Runner in October and although this is m)learned a ton and wanted to> say thanks.>> My question has to do with a rather odd gargling noise in the dash. I am> assuming it has something to do with the ventilation system, especially since> in only occurs when the temp. selector is between hot and cold. You> essentially have to have it shoved completely one way or the other to avoid the> noise. Also, it happens during acceleration, or more accurately, anytime the> engine RPM in raised. Which is to say that at a calm idle, it most often goes> into hiding.>> Just curious if anyone has any ideas or similar experiences, and what I should> do to go about fixing it.>> Once again, thanks to all...>> Eric Dillenback> ejd006@acad.drake.edu Have you had the vehicle to the dealer for the head gasket problem? (TSB#EG94-003 I think) The last few I have seen came in with a slightly low coolant level and a gurgiling noise (air in the system) behind the dash. - -- Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As Stock 4.10 gears Rear Lock-Right (TRD) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:21:53 -0500 From: "Michael Rowe" Subject: Ventilation Noise? To: >> My question has to do with a rather odd gargling noise in the dash. I am>> assuming it has something to do with the ventilation system, especially since>> in only occurs when the temp. selector is between hot and cold. You>> essentially have to have it shoved completely one way or the other to avoid the>> noise. Also, it happens during acceleration, or more accurately